← Interrupted by Matt Jones
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- [00:01]
Matt Jones
This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on Newsradio 840. WHAS now, here's Matt Jones. All right, welcome, everybody. Episode nine of Interrupted by Matt Jones and one that I've waited to do for a long time. You know, I have been friends with this guy forever, and I'm not envious of a lot of people's jobs, but I am a little bit envious of, of his. Aaron Fleener from Glasgow, Kentucky. You may not know the name, but you may have read his bachelor recaps on Kentucky sports radio a long time ago. He is a caddy on the PGA tour for golfer J.T. poston. And I thought, you know, some people have really interesting lives that I would like to know about, and this is one of them. What's it like to be a caddy on the PGA Tour? Aaron, Floyd cleaner is with us. Aaron is in Nashville, first of all. Sure. By that shirt, Hefty lefty Jared lorenzen in what, 8 8k or whatever? I guess not 8k but 8 bit. Love it. Big Kentucky fan, right?
- [01:08]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. I know you're a big hoodie guy, so I wanted to bring out my, my finest one today.
- [01:13]
Matt Jones
That's a great one. How long, how long have you had that Fleener? Like that looks like a tech. It looks like a Tecmo Bowl. Jared Lorenzo.
- [01:20]
Aaron Fleener
I don't even remember what, what company put it out, but I bought it. I probably had it 10 years or so. So. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big Jared fan.
- [01:29]
Matt Jones
So, I mean, you wrote for ksr. I want to talk about that in a little bit. But you wrote for Kelly Sports Radio, the website in its early years. And then I remember you said one time, I'm going with my friend Kent. He's going to become a pro golfer and I'm going to be his caddy. And then it became what, Steven yeager and then J.T. poston and, and it's been such a cool life. But still, even with all that, you know, great experiences, there's still something about Tiger because I see the behind you. You have a picture of you and Tiger that he just has a special aura, right?
- [02:04]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. That was the one and only time we've been paired with him. It was up in, at Liberty national in New York. And one of the PGA Tour photographers got that and sent it to me. And so I think I posted somewhere and my cousin actually got it made into that, which was really cool of him to do. It's just like, I don't know, it's just something cool to have around your house. Somebody Comes over like, is that Tiger?
- [02:29]
Matt Jones
Yeah. I mean, in my lifetime. Yeah, in my lifetime. What. I mean, the, the sports superstars, it's like Michael Jordan and Tiger, like, those are the two biggest of our lives. When you stood there next to Tiger, even though you're not playing and you're caddying, it still had to be kind of special, wasn't it?
- [02:49]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, it's cool. So that was a really cool time in our, in my career with jt. That was the week after he had won his first tournament at Windham. And so we get to Liberty national the next week, and they paired us in the playoffs just based on where you were on the FedEx cup list. So somebody had withdrawn and I realized, oh, my God, we're going to play with Tiger this time week. And so, like, all week we're just like, pumped up, you know, and it just so happened that day, the first day we had to get in a van to ride out to the 10th TE because we were starting on 10. And so we get in this van and all of a sudden I see Tiger coming.
- [03:26]
Matt Jones
I'm like, oh, my God, Tiger's in the van. They put Tiger in the van.
- [03:29]
Aaron Fleener
He's about to get in this van with us.
- [03:32]
Matt Jones
Wow.
- [03:32]
Aaron Fleener
I'm like, I'm like hitting JT on his leg. I'm like, dude, dude, dude, dude. So he gets in and, you know, couldn't been nicer, like, introduced himself. He's like, you know, congrats on the win last week. He's like, he's like, you went bogey free, right? And JT's like, yeah. He's like, man, that's so incredible. And so like, he was awesome. JT talked to him a lot more than I did, but it was a great day. He only played one round. He didn't play good and withdrew for an injury the next day. So we played in a twosome with Scott Piercey the next day.
- [04:02]
Matt Jones
Same thing. Tiger, Tiger Woods, Scott Piercey. Basically the same for those players on the tour. You know, I mean, JT's had a lot of success. One what, three times? Is that right?
- [04:13]
Aaron Fleener
Three times?
- [04:13]
Matt Jones
Yeah, three times. You know, they. They're living the dream, but they still. Is Tiger the one guy that still, even now, makes people, even the players, kind of get amped up?
- [04:27]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I. I wish that. I wish he would have just been playing this whole time, you know, and not had all the injury problems he's had. And it would have been really cool because he was. He hasn't Played really much since I got on tour in 2000. I think 17 was my first year on tour. And I mean, he's played here and there, but he hasn't played like a full, you know, 15 event schedule like he, he did back in the day. So for, for us, he for sure still has that aura when he's around. You know, some of the guys are a little older than us, have played on teams with him and know him a little bit more. Uh, but yeah, still really cool when he's around.
- [05:06]
Matt Jones
So how old are you? You're a little bit younger than me. You're.
- [05:09]
Aaron Fleener
I'm 42.
- [05:10]
Matt Jones
42. Okay. So you started the life of a PGA Tour caddy. You were a really good golfer. And then explain how you went from. What were you doing when you then became a caddy?
- [05:25]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, so I was working for the state of Tennessee.
- [05:28]
Matt Jones
I didn't know that. What were you doing for this downtown in Nashville?
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Aaron Fleener
I was a procurement officer for the state of Tennessee for like real estate, construction and like moving contracts.
- [05:39]
Matt Jones
So exciting stuff. Sexy.
- [05:42]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. I mean, I learned what procurement was the first day I started. I was like, okay, what does this mean exactly? So, I mean, you know, working for the state was, I would say it wasn't too challenging for me. So it was one of those things where, you know, I always had wanted to be a caddy. It was just like one of those things that it's tough to get your foot in the door.
- [06:07]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [06:08]
Aaron Fleener
And so, you know, when Kent came to me and asked me to.
- [06:12]
Matt Jones
So for people who don't know that's Kent Bull, you were like, it. Was he your childhood friend?
- [06:18]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, he's a little bit younger than me. He's like six years younger than me. But he obviously he was super, really good at golf. So he was always playing with us, even when we were in high school. And so we just became buddies. He's really good friends with my youngest brother and he went to middle Tennessee and I was in Nashville. So, you know, we kept in touch. And so he had a sponsor that wanted him to take a full time caddy down to Latin America. I thought he would, it would help him perform a little better. And so he came to me, we worked out a deal and yeah, I quit my job. And that's crazy, man. I'm jealous.
- [06:58]
Matt Jones
I was jealous. I mean, I knew you and I was doing this and I still was a little jealous because what, what a cool gig. Now, now, Kent was an amate. Pretty. I mean, people don't realize, I guess you can speak to this better than me. People don't realize how good these guys are. Like, just like, I played with Kit once in Glasgow and he shot, like, 63, barely trying on Glasgow's cross. Like, people don't real good. Everyone is.
- [07:27]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, it's. It's a very fine line between who makes it and who doesn't. And it comes down to little stuff like injuries or, you know, just playing. Playing better at the right exact time than someone else. And it's, you know, Kent's career was derailed by some injuries and some health stuff and. But, man, there was nobody that hit a driver better than him.
- [07:55]
Matt Jones
And, like, how could he Far could he hit it? Like, I don't think, like, again, in terms of distance, occasionally I can muscle one up and almost get 300 yards. Can't. If he muscled it up. Or JT, if he muscled it up. What's the. What's the yardage?
- [08:12]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I mean, people can hit it 300 yards. Like, where it finishes. 300 yards. These dudes can fly it that far. So that's a whole different thing. And they know where it's going to go every time. And, yeah, it's just like, people see, like, a plus two at their club. They're like, man, I wonder if, you know, he could make it. No, he couldn't make it.
- [08:34]
Matt Jones
Yeah, it's just.
- [08:36]
Aaron Fleener
It's a different. It's a different sound when they hit it. It's just. It's a different level and it's hard to understand unless you're, like, out there right beside it all the time. Time.
- [08:46]
Matt Jones
So Latin American tour, give people a little sense of what life is like. You did that for, I think, two years. Give people.
- [08:55]
Aaron Fleener
We just did that one year. One year that in 2015.
- [08:58]
Matt Jones
Give me. Give people a sense of what life on the Latin American tour is like. And maybe some cities that you went to.
- [09:05]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, so our first city was in. Down in Columbia. I don't remember what city, but. So Kent and I are traveling. There's, like, 19 events on this schedule. And so we're traveling together, but we're staying in hotel rooms together every week. So we are literally right beside each other every moment of every day for 19 weeks of that year. And not to mention, we lived together back in Nashville.
- [09:34]
Matt Jones
Oh, that's right.
- [09:35]
Aaron Fleener
So it was. We got a lot of each other, and luckily, you know, we get along pretty well. You know? You know, there would be times where, you know, let's. Let's take a little. Take a little breather, not talk For a while.
- [09:48]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [09:49]
Aaron Fleener
But, yeah, so, I mean, they don't put you in. I mean, you're staying in decent places when you're traveling because, you know, the tour doesn't want anything to happen to. To any of the players or anybody involved. You're getting, you know, shuttled back and forth the course, so it was. It was safe. I mean, you could go out on your own in the cities if you wanted. They're not, like, locking you in the.
- [10:10]
Matt Jones
So did you go out. I mean, did you go out. Do you. Did go out on the town in some of those places? Because I know you're a dude who likes to go out.
- [10:19]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. That year we just kind of said, let's treat this as a job. Like, let's. Let's really, you know, lock in when we're playing, and then when we're at home, we can, you know, hang out, party, hang out with our friends, whatever. Because there was guys on that tour that did do that every night. They would show up to the course, and they've been out till 4. I'm like, well, we're gonna beat the crap out of that guy.
- [10:43]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [10:45]
Aaron Fleener
So we, you know, we tried to treat it as a job. We missed a cut. Yeah, we would go out. Maybe we didn't miss many cuts that year, but we would go out and, you know, hang out on, like, a Friday. Because you're stuck there. It's not like. You're like. It's not like, I'm in Charlotte for a tournament now. We missed a cut. I can just go home in an hour. You're just there. And so they would hang out. I remember going out in Guatemala one night. I forgot what the city was. They have, like, cobblestone streets, but it was. That was interesting. We're playing a golf tournament on the side of a volcano that week. And so really, you know, getting our big, big dudes and walking up and down hills. He's not gonna play his best.
- [11:24]
Matt Jones
Yeah. I mean, that had to be, though. Like, there's got to be part of it, though. That was an amazing experience to go to these places. You would never otherwise go.
- [11:34]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I would have never gone to Lima, Peru, or, you know, Buenos Aires, you know, places like that. So while, you know, when you're. And when you're doing it, when you start there, you're really excited about it. Like, I could never go back and do it now, but, like, when you're on that come up.
- [11:53]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [11:53]
Aaron Fleener
Everything's, like, new and fun. And so, like, he played great that year. I Think we finished second on the money list.
- [12:01]
Matt Jones
He won. Didn't he win an event which won the Argentina Open? Yes.
- [12:08]
Aaron Fleener
And so, yeah, it was fun. Like, met a lot of great dudes. I did not understand at the time, like, how great of networking that was for me because there's only, there's probably four or five American caddies down there that are actually traveling full time with guys. Most guys are just getting locals that, you know, don't speak English. So like we hung out with the players all the time. So now I'm like, to this day very good friends with Harry Hicks, Keith Mitchell, Adam Shank, like all these guys that are on tour now. And at the time, you know, I didn't realize like how big of a networking business.
- [12:46]
Matt Jones
What was hair like? Harry Higgs seems fun. Was he fun down there?
- [12:51]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I mean those guys are great. I remember I got the first day we were going to the course that season, we were in a van with Keith Mitchell and Harry Hicks and they're just like blabbing in the back. I'm like, these guys won't shut up. Who are these guys? I didn't like them at first and now they're like two of my best friends.
- [13:11]
Matt Jones
Yeah, well, Harry's become a legend. So you were working with a really good friend and including someone you live with and also kind of working for them just on a personal level, I would think that's a dynamic that can be hard. Was it hard sometimes?
- [13:30]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's tough like because you're out there in the heat of competition and so if those guys hit a bad shot or something, they're going to get mad. That's just human nature. Like so you have to try to separate the, your personal feelings versus your on course interactions. Like if he gets mad at me and questions something I said to him, I can't take that back to the hotel later and back. I'm not going to dinner with you. You were an to me today, you know.
- [13:59]
Matt Jones
Yeah. Could you do that though? Were you able to, Were you able to do that?
- [14:05]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, yeah, I, I think that's something I've always done pretty well. You just kind of chalk it up to like, that's, that's what you sign up for. That's part of the job. Like you have to understand that. And if you do understand that and you can handle that, then you can last and in this job for a while. If you don't, if you take everything personally, if you, you know, take it home with you all night and you're worried about all the time. You're going to burn out pretty fast.
- [14:36]
Matt Jones
Do you. You know, I've, I've known you for a long time and you share a trait with our mutual friend Drew Franklin and Johnny Bruce. Another one when get together. That Atlanta SEC tournament is one we still talk about. But, but you, you are like the fun guy. Like everybody that gets around Aaron Fleener wants to have fun because Aaron Fleeners fun. I'm sure on tour there's a temptation to have people like all wannabe let's go be crazy and have fun. And I would bet, I don't know but a lot of people see Aaron Fleener as the fun dude. Do you have to be careful not to let that interfere with the job?
- [15:16]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I, like I said earlier about that year with Kent, like, I treat my work as, as work. Like, okay, work 26, 27 weeks a year. So that also gives me 22, 23 weeks off a year when I can do whatever I want. So I look at my work weeks as work. Like I get my rest, I take my job seriously. You know, if we miss a cut or something and we're staying over the weekend, like, yeah, I might go hang out with some other caddies or something, get dinner or something. But like I'm also like older now, so I don't have the same 42.
- [15:56]
Matt Jones
Doesn'T move as back like I used to.
- [15:58]
Aaron Fleener
And it's like, it's just not worth it to go out there and not be totally sharp when you're, when you're working because it's a very competitive business. Like, you cannot give someone a reason to not trust you or think you're not fully there and prepared and ready every day. So I try to treat it, you know, I'm not a serious guy, but I do take the job seriously and I take showing up ready physically, being physically ready to work every day seriously.
- [16:32]
Matt Jones
Are there golfers that are known as like, you don't want to work for that dude. He, he treats his cat, he's poorly, he's difficult. And then I'm sure there are golfers that are nice, but are there golfers? Sometimes you're like, you got to be careful with that guy.
- [16:48]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. I mean, they're all going to have their moments like, like in any workplace or business, like if you catch one of these guys on a bad day or right after they've made a double bogey and you're, you know, you're a little kid trying to give them a high five, they don't give you high five, and then forever, you're like, oh, man, that guy's an ass. Yeah, that guy's not really an ass. He's just having a bad moment, you know, like, he may make a birdie on the next hole and give a kid a ball. It's just like, there's guys that are tougher than others, for sure, but most of them are, you know, once they get off the course or great to be around, very generous and, you know, kind and take an interest in your life. Like, it's crazy. Like, I tell people this all the time. Like, before I got into it, you know, Rickie Fowler was, like, the thing. Like, he was the guy, one of the young guns. And, like, I watched him. I was a fan. And now, like, Ricky Fowler will walk past me on the rain and be like, hey, Flair, what's up? Like, how you doing? It's just, like. It's still, like. Baffles my mind.
- [17:55]
Matt Jones
Does it? You don't get used to that. You don't get used to that. And it's not. It's never. It's still kind of like talking to.
- [18:01]
Aaron Fleener
Him like, we're buddies, but it's still like, wow, like, I'm buddies with Ricky Fowler. Yeah, Legit. Like, it's just, you know, stuff like that is not. Like, it's not. It doesn't go past me like that. That's not cool.
- [18:18]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I can see that. What's. What's the quality? What are the qualities of a good caddy? So. So you. You sit there, you meet a caddy who's just starting, and he says, aaron Fleener, what should I do to make sure I succeed in this? What would you say?
- [18:33]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I would think. I would say, first of all, just get to know as many people as you can, because, like, I'm. I'm very blessed in that I've worked for JT for eight years, so I haven't had to worry about, like, looking for another job or, you know, stuff like that. But, like, I saw today, like, my buddy Joe Griner and Morikawa had just gotten together, like, five weeks ago, and now they split again. But Joe is, you know, so well networked and knows everybody. He'll get another job. And so knowing agents, knowing the players, girlfriends, wives, families, and the players themselves is very important, because when they're looking for a new caddy, they may ask their buddy, that's a player, who should I hire? And if you know that guy knows you, knows you're a good caddy, like, well, you know, what about Fleener. That's kind of how I got the job with JT was Jaeger let me go halfway through his rookie year. And then Keith Mitchell, who was one of my friends from the Latin tour that I was talking about earlier, is roommates with JT and he tells jt, like, okay, he knows that JT has been looking to possibly make a switch, but, you know, he's not going to do it until he finds somebody wants. So Keith goes to JT and says, hey, Fleeners looking for a job. Like, I think you guys would, would mesh well together. Like, why don't you give him a shot? So that's how stuff like that happens.
- [19:57]
Matt Jones
What causes those relationships to break? Like, I mean, I'm sure there are many things, but if you were to look and say, because I feel like it would be so personal and I know it can't be, but it would be. Be so hard to like, let this person with every week. What causes those relationships to break?
- [20:16]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I think just like, maybe the way they communicate together is. Doesn't mesh well or their personalities don't mesh well or, you know, the way a caddy will present a situation of a shot to a guy he doesn't like. Or, you know, the, the player wants somebody who's like, excellent at reading greens, and that's all they care about. And so they're going to just go find a guy that's great at reading green. It's like some guys. That doesn't matter to you. That wouldn't matter at all to my guy. He doesn't call me in to read.
- [20:49]
Matt Jones
You don't read any putts, right? Like, you just. He doesn't care what you think.
- [20:54]
Aaron Fleener
It's not that he doesn't care. It's that he just wants to have one thought in his mind. Okay, he's a, you know, top 50 guy in the world. So, like, what am I going to tell him that he doesn't already know? You know, on and around the greens? Like, he's an elite, like, chipper and putter. So he just wants to make a choice, trust it, and then go and execute it without having, you know. Because if he says, well, I see it, you know, just outside the hole on the right. And if I'm like, well, I think it's more. Now there's doubt in his mind and, you know, whether he wants to trust his gut or not, he's also thinking, I don't know. He said it was a little more, you just don't commit and you make an even worse stroke than you would have.
- [21:39]
Matt Jones
You have to be like amateur psychologist ever to sort of get somebody back on track or like, do you have. Do you have to do like that sort of personal role at all?
- [21:48]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I mean, you got to be careful with that stuff. Like, you got to. You can't overdo that stuff because then it doesn't mean anything when you do it. Like, if I tell him every week, like, hey, come on, you know, we can do this.
- [22:02]
Matt Jones
I can't see you doing that.
- [22:03]
Aaron Fleener
He's just going to be like, dude, shut the hell up. Like, leave me alone. But, like, if I just kind of let him get it out, you know, as long as it's not affecting what he's doing on the next shot, I have no problem with, you know, a guy expressing some frustration or being like, hey, you know, you said the wind was here. I think it was doing something a little different. Like just going forward, we need to be aware of that stuff like that, like, it's fine. But just knowing when to speak up and not to speak up. It was another thing I would tell, like a new caddy, like, these guys are here because they're really freaking good like you. They didn't get here because of you. They got here because of them. So let them play. Go out there and play golf and help them. Where you can help them or answer questions if they have questions for you. Don't. You don't have to micromanage every second of.
- [22:58]
Matt Jones
Yeah, all right, I'm going to give you a few. I'm going to give you some. A few things and I want to get your quick reactions to all of them. So tell me quickly what is. What was the lot. It like the first time JT won a PGA Tour event.
- [23:15]
Aaron Fleener
First time he won was Wyndham 2019. And we were three back going into the Sunday. And he got off to like a really hot start. I think he was like five under through seven or something. And so he was also bogey free that week. And so that was kind of a blessing because he was kind of more thinking about that, like, I want to finish this tournament without making a bogey instead of thinking about, oh God, I'm about to win this golf tournament. Yeah, like, and I remember, like, I was fine. I was fine. And then we got on 18 and I was like, I got kind of nervous and I'm like not saying anything. And we're walking down the fairway and he looks at me and he just starts laughing because he can just tell how nervous I am.
- [24:06]
Matt Jones
Oh, really? You can tell you're nervous. Okay.
- [24:08]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. He was like, are you having any fun or what? I just started laughing. I was like, yeah, man, this is great. Like, he could tell that I was, like. It was starting to get to me a little bit. And, yeah, that person was special, especially for him. It was in North Carolina, you know, close to where he's from. He had tons of friends and college teammates and college coach and his mom and dad and grandma. Like, everybody is there, so it was like. It was, you know, really awesome. I'll never forget that for sure.
- [24:41]
Matt Jones
What was it like the first time you walked on to Augusta national as an actual caddy?
- [24:47]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, that was. Luckily, I'd gotten that. He took me down there to play a few weeks before that, so, like, I got to get the initial, like, shock and awe out of my system.
- [25:00]
Matt Jones
Oh, so you played there. What'd you shoot? I mean, you're good. Like. Like, you're not PGA Tour good, but you're like, come to your course and kick your ass good. So what'd you shoot?
- [25:10]
Aaron Fleener
I think I shot, like, 82 or something. Like, it was pretty good. I remember it was super hot. And, yeah, I didn't play. I didn't play great. It was more just like. It was. The shocking thing was, like, how fast the round seemed like it went by. Like, it was like, all of a sudden, we're on 18, and I, like. It was like, almost like a. Like a blackout. Like, you're just, like. Because you're. You've watched on TV all these years, and now you're. That you're just there.
- [25:39]
Matt Jones
People don't realize how hilly that course is. Like, on television. It doesn't do justice to the. The elevation changes and all that when you're there.
- [25:49]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. So our first. Our first Masters was the one that they played in November, so we didn't really get the full experience the first time.
- [25:56]
Matt Jones
Oh, the COVID one, It was still.
- [25:57]
Aaron Fleener
Cool, obviously, but the first one, I think, in 23, 3, was the time we went back after that, and that's when it was, like, full fans and, like, everybody's there. And that was, like. That was really cool. But Augusta's tough. It's tough for caddies because the yardage book they give us there is nothing like what we have normally on tour. Like, our tour books have, like, pictures in them, and, like, you know, we know exactly what numbers we're looking for when we look down our book. And Augusta is just, like. They give you, like, the front number to the green. They don't Tell you, like, oh, this plays uphill. 3 yards. You have to figure all that stuff out.
- [26:38]
Matt Jones
Oh, okay.
- [26:39]
Aaron Fleener
And so it's a lot of pre tournament work for us that week. And then, you know, players are a little bit tighter that week, a little more amped up, nervous, like, because it's the Masters, you know, it means everything. So the major weeks are tough. They always feel like you've worked, like, two weeks when they're over, because they're. They're courses that we don't go to all the time, so we have to do a lot of extra work. And, you know, the rounds feel like they take forever. And the golf courses are hard. So, you know, majors are great. That's the tournaments you want to be playing in, but they do take a lot out.
- [27:21]
Matt Jones
What's the hardest course you've been a caddy on? Is it Oakmont?
- [27:27]
Aaron Fleener
Oakmont for sure.
- [27:28]
Matt Jones
Why is it so hard? Well, I mean, it looks miserable, but why is it so hard?
- [27:34]
Aaron Fleener
I've been there twice now. I went with Kent.
- [27:36]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I was there. I went there. I was that when you. Kent was there? Yeah.
- [27:40]
Aaron Fleener
That was the first major I ever caddied. And it was. It was wild going back there a couple weeks ago because it made me realize, like, how far I've come and, like, my knowledge of my job. Like, I remember being there with Kent and just feeling very overwhelmed, like, with everything that I needed to know. And like, this time it was still a lot of work, but, like, you just, you know exactly what you need to know and, like, you know how to go out there and figure it out and. But Oatmont's tough just because it never lets up. Like, you can make a bogey on literally any hole. Like, on tour, we play courses that aren't like that. Like, you can, you know, there's easy holes on tour, but there's no easy holes. You hit it in the rough anytime, you're going to be lucky to make a bogey. And so, like, every shot is so pressure packed because you know if you miss it, you're in big trouble. So it was tough, I thought. I mean, and I thought we played in the easiest conditions that we possibly could have had a couple weeks ago. That was not a whole lot of wind. It was soft. Like, I could just can't imagine what the scores would have been had it been, like, firm and windy. It could have been. We could still be playing.
- [28:56]
Matt Jones
You would have never been able to finish. What about when you were at Valhalla and able to be at a major in Your home state with. I know a lot of people that you know there. Of course, Scotty Scheffler gets arrested during that. But what, what, what was that special being in Kentucky?
- [29:12]
Aaron Fleener
That was a crazy week. We missed a cut that week, unfortunately, but it was awesome. Yeah, a lot of shout outs. What I remember most that week was that my memo got to come. She had never. I don't think she'd ever been to a tournament and, like, actually seen us in person. And we had gotten her set up in like a hospitality suite on 18. And so, like, both days when we're coming up 18, she's, you know, waving at us. We're looking over, waving at her. And so that was really cool experience. You know, she's 94 now.
- [29:44]
Matt Jones
Well, let me say who that is for Kentucky fans, this is Meemaw that some of you may remember. She's been miked up for a couple games before for ksr and one time she's the one that said the Bobby Huggins. Sorry, you got the D A, D, U, I. But thanks for Trey Mitchell. That's how. That's your grandmother you're talking about.
- [30:05]
Aaron Fleener
That's. That's my grandma. That's me ma. Yeah. Who had to be explained what the word shifty man about Rob Dillingham.
- [30:15]
Matt Jones
She's like the biggest Kentucky fan, though, in the world. I saw you had a post. She's having some health issues, and my prayers are for her. I hope I are with her. She's the absolute best person for her.
- [30:28]
Aaron Fleener
The next week, she's. She's going through some medical stuff. You know, she's having some pain, you know, off and on. And so normally it would. To alleviate it, they would do a surgery, but obviously she's 94, so you can't do, you know, you can't do surgery on someone that age. So they're. They've got a doctor in Louisville that thinks he can. He can help her a different way. So next Thursday, appreciate some thoughts and prayers for. For Meemawa. She's going a little, trying to get that taken care of, but I went up. I got to go up and visit with her yesterday, spend the day with her in Glasgow. So it's always great to see her, man. She just speaks her mind, you know, as soon as I walk in the door, she's like, well, you guys didn't play very good last weekend.
- [31:13]
Matt Jones
I love it.
- [31:14]
Aaron Fleener
I'm like, okay, I'll tell. She's like. She said, you know, I'm. I'm, you know, got my thing next week. So I need you guys to play good at John Deere for me. So I, you know, I told JT that she wasn't real pleased with. With how he played.
- [31:27]
Matt Jones
That's great. You know, she. When I play in Glasgow, I don't know if she. She always seems to know I'm there, and she'll stand there in her yard and wave and say hi, and we. We see her at the game. She goes to, like, every SEC tournament, so.
- [31:41]
Aaron Fleener
High school, state tournament. She's been to, like, how many in a row?
- [31:45]
Matt Jones
She's been to, like, 50 or something, right?
- [31:47]
Aaron Fleener
Something like that. Yeah.
- [31:49]
Matt Jones
Crazy. All right, so little behind the scenes of. Of caddy world here for a second. Are there. I'm sure there are caddies you like and probably some you don't like, but are there ever caddy rivalries? Are there ever any sort of. I mean, we see golfer rivalries of players who don't seem to, like, ever happened in the caddy world?
- [32:10]
Aaron Fleener
Not really. I would. I would liken the caddy world to, like, a big traveling fraternity, basically. Really, obviously, guys that you hang out with more, that, you know, you're more like. But, like, you get along with everybody for the most part. I don't think there's any, like, you know, if a guy feels like. Loses his job and feel like another guy, like, kind of snaked it from behind his back or something. Like, I've heard stories about that.
- [32:40]
Matt Jones
Well, I wanted to ask you about that. You said JT or somebody had somebody when you had to do that, do you ever worry about that? The sort of guy wants to talk to the next guy, but then he has a guy, and I don't want to stab him. Like, do you worry about that?
- [32:54]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, a lot of guys, a lot of players will not hire a caddy directly away from another person. Like, they'll, you know, they have to be fired or quit before they're, you know, considered fair game. I guess I don't know how all that happens. Like I said, I'm, you know, in a unique situation where I'm probably in one of the longest tenured caddy player relationships on tour, so I don't have to deal in that world a whole lot. But, yeah, there's like a unwritten rule, I would say that, you know, you don't try to. You don't try to take another man's.
- [33:32]
Matt Jones
Job, so you have to be single for a while.
- [33:37]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah.
- [33:37]
Matt Jones
Yeah. That's interesting, I would say, because you said you're in one of the longest Relationships. You said it was eight years. I guess for most of us probably don't look and see who the caddies are. So, like, the one I can always think of was. Was Tiger with the one guy he had forever who was always going at the crowd and telling him to hush. That seemed like, yeah, Stevie, that was a long. How long is the average player caddy relationship, you think?
- [34:05]
Aaron Fleener
Average, Maybe a year.
- [34:09]
Matt Jones
So there's a lot of, like, upside down pineapple stuff going on there. There's a lot of it, yeah.
- [34:16]
Aaron Fleener
It's. I don't know. Those guys are. Some guys just, like, want a different guy around just because they want to hear a different voice or they. They don't require much out of a caddy, so they just want someone different to hang out with. Or, you know, there's all different reasons. But, yeah, maybe longer than a year. But, yeah, I'm definitely on the upper end. Like, Xander and his caddy Austin have been together for a long time.
- [34:47]
Matt Jones
I didn't realize it was. Yeah, I didn't realize it was that short a time. That's interesting. Okay. Have you ever had to be. You know, you sometimes see on television, one of the caddies, you know, gets angry at somebody in the crowd, tells him to get back or what. Have you ever had to do that?
- [35:02]
Aaron Fleener
Oh, yeah.
- [35:03]
Matt Jones
Give me an example. It's hard for me to see you getting angry at somebody.
- [35:08]
Aaron Fleener
I mean, it's just part of our job. And, like, it's something that I don't mind doing because, like, in my normal life, I'm very calm. I would never yell at anyone. And so, like, getting to do it, like, legally, I guess, feels really good.
- [35:22]
Matt Jones
Really? Yeah. You could just let it all out. I got you.
- [35:26]
Aaron Fleener
You try to be nice. Like, if you hear somebody, like, making noise or something, like, you'll just say, quiet, please. You know, first. And then if it keeps going, then quiet, like a little bit louder. And if you. If I have to go a third time, it's going to be loud.
- [35:40]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [35:42]
Aaron Fleener
Quiet or stop or.
- [35:44]
Matt Jones
You know, what's the most obnoxious thing fans say to golfers? Is it the. What is. What's the thing that makes you cringe when they say.
- [35:54]
Aaron Fleener
I think, like, now with sports betting being way more common and, like, everybody's doing it on their phone or, like, in the moment, like some, like, golf pro being like, oh, jt, I. You know, I bet on you to win.
- [36:06]
Matt Jones
Like, oh, gosh.
- [36:08]
Aaron Fleener
It's like, okay, well, you think that's gonna make him try harder? Like, you think He. Oh, he's. This guy's got $5 on me. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try now. And so, you know, we just look like, oh, thanks, buddy. Appreciate it.
- [36:24]
Matt Jones
Has there ever been a moment where you've done something, either a recommendation or a club choice or whatever, where it didn't work out and you went, oh, no, I screwed that up.
- [36:36]
Aaron Fleener
Oh, yeah. I mean, we're human. Like, you're. You're helping him with I don't know how many shots a week, but yeah, you're gonna make mistakes. It's just, you know, something that you both have to know is that you're both trying as hard as you can to do the right thing and to. I'm trying to help him as much as I possibly can all the time. Because however much money he makes, that's how much you know.
- [37:03]
Matt Jones
Yeah, well, okay, so I don't want to get into. I don't want to get into your deal because I think that's private. But just in general, give me a ballpark, because this is the thing I always hear people ask. I. We've had people call in and ask this on the show. What is the general way that caddies get paid?
- [37:20]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, so the amounts are different, just depending on different guys, I think. But. So every caddy gets like a weekly salary, no matter what happens, and that's to help cover.
- [37:36]
Matt Jones
So what's a ballpark? What's that ballpark?
- [37:38]
Aaron Fleener
Usually anywhere from like, probably 1800 to 3000.
- [37:44]
Matt Jones
Okay. But you have to pay your expenses out of that.
- [37:46]
Aaron Fleener
We pay our own expenses that way. We have write offs, you know, when. For tax purposes and stuff like that. So they pay us a weekly salary, and then you make a percentage on their earnings past that. So most guys make somewhere 7, 8%.
- [38:05]
Matt Jones
Okay.
- [38:06]
Aaron Fleener
Of the earnings, and then a win usually gets. Gets you paid 10% on that. So, you know, it's a. It's a good living. I mean, it's.
- [38:16]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I'm.
- [38:18]
Aaron Fleener
I'm very lucky to do something that I love doing. And, like, I couldn't. I'm not smart enough to make the money that I make doing anything else. There's nothing else I can do.
- [38:31]
Matt Jones
So, like, if they get a FedEx bonus, you get a percentage of that, too.
- [38:36]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, some guys have that in their deals, too. Just depends. It's very like player to player, depending on that. And then we can also make money off endorsements, too. Like, I.
- [38:50]
Matt Jones
You do like underwear, don't you? Don't you do underwear?
- [38:53]
Aaron Fleener
So the. The underwear is not going anymore. But we did that for two years, which is two years longer than I ever thought I would be an underwear model, I'll be honest. That was great. But then I have, like, JT has an Elijah Craig deal, so I have, you know, Elijah Craig deal as well. And then our hats with megacorp, like, so, like, we make pretty decent money on that stuff too, which is, you.
- [39:17]
Matt Jones
Know, so you get to sell your hat and stuff on your own. Like, not. It doesn't have to be what. What. What the golfer does.
- [39:24]
Aaron Fleener
It doesn't have to be now. A lot of times they. They would like it to be. So I would never sign a deal that I didn't ask JT's agent about first.
- [39:34]
Matt Jones
Gotcha.
- [39:34]
Aaron Fleener
Like, is it okay if I do this deal with this brand or. Because you don't want to, you know, do something that's competing with something that he's got going on.
- [39:43]
Matt Jones
Are you one of the best caddies at golf? You got to be up there.
- [39:47]
Aaron Fleener
No, not even close.
- [39:49]
Matt Jones
Really?
- [39:50]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, there's. I mean, there's caddies that played on tour. Yeah. I'm like a. Probably a two handicap, which is not bad, but there's guys that are actually really, really good.
- [40:02]
Matt Jones
So it's. I always assumed you were one of the best. All right, let me two more things, and then I'll let you go. When the live stuff happened, you guys were living this moment. A, was there tension during it? And B, like, what was it like during that period of time when you knew there were people amongst you who were going to leave where they're. Was there, like, long term, short term resentment? Like, what was that like during that time.
- [40:31]
Aaron Fleener
Man? I mean, I try to stay out of that as much as possible. Just because I'm not doesn't really concern me. But yeah, there was. It was just weird because there were so many unknowns. Like, you just. We get asked about it a lot and like, I don't have any answers. I know as much as I know what's. I just know whatever's being reported to everyone.
- [40:51]
Matt Jones
So.
- [40:54]
Aaron Fleener
You know, JT from the start said, I have no interest in doing that. It's not like, I don't know. I don't think there's any, like, hard feelings towards guys that left. You know, they made their choice and some guys made their choice to stay. I mean, honestly, when you get down to the bottom line of it, it did nothing but good for everybody on our tour because it raised our purses.
- [41:19]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Aaron Fleener
Better. Bettered our treatment and, you know, it did A lot of good for, for us. Now. I can, I can see from a fan standpoint where it doesn't look good. I mean, it looks like a lot of greed and like, you know, not caring what the, what the fan thinks. And so I don't know. I, I don't know if it's, I don't know that it's been good for the game, professional game of golf where you don't have the best players playing all together all the time. I think it makes the majors a little bit like, a little better when they're all back together. Like, it gets a little more fire into that. So I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen with that going forward. Like I said, we don't.
- [42:10]
Matt Jones
I was surprised how resilient the PGA Tour has been on. I mean, I didn't think Liv was going to succeed the way they thought, but I've been surprised how little everyone seems to care about those events. I don't mean to even make you speak on that. I'm not trying to put you in a difficult spot, but it's still, even though they have Bryson and Brooks and I still never know who wins their events and I'll still watch the Sunday of the PGA Tour event.
- [42:38]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
- [42:41]
Matt Jones
I, you don't have to comment. I'm not trying to put you in a tough spot. I, I, I just like, I, I'll.
- [42:48]
Aaron Fleener
Check their scores just to see like, if any of my, you know, the main thing is like, you just miss guys that aren't around anymore. Yeah.
- [42:54]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Aaron Fleener
Harold Varner, I love chopping it up with him a bunch and like, I never see him anymore. Like caddies that went over there that I was buddies with, like, you just don't see guys anymore if you see him at a major, like, you're so busy, you don't really have time to like, you know, really get to know like, what's going on with them. So that was the biggest letdown for me. It was just like kind of losing some guys that you liked having around.
- [43:19]
Matt Jones
Favorite person to see paired up with jt. Favorite person to be on the course with.
- [43:27]
Aaron Fleener
Probably. I mean, I've, I've been asked this question and it's answer is always Siwoo Kim.
- [43:34]
Matt Jones
Why is it Siwoo Kim?
- [43:36]
Aaron Fleener
Because Siwu Kim is so hilarious. He's, he speaks like pretty good English, but it's not like perfect. And so it's really funny when he says stuff like he's, he's like very aggressive on the golf course and like hit shots that no one else would even try. Like he's pulling out drivers off the deck and like he just says funny stuff sometimes.
- [44:05]
Matt Jones
I like it. Now I have a new. I have to watch Siwu Kimor. Let's say you had to pick the president of the United States and it had to be a PGA Tour golfer. Who would it be? Wow. I bet you haven't been asked that one golfer.
- [44:22]
Aaron Fleener
No, I haven't. I would probably say. I would probably go with Ricky Fowler, honestly.
- [44:31]
Matt Jones
Really? Why is that?
- [44:33]
Aaron Fleener
I just think he's well respected by everyone. People think. I think people have a misconception of him, that he's like some huge personality just because of all the like commercials and like he's so, you know, so recognizable. But he's like a very like thoughtful, like keeps to himself type of guy. And I think everybody respects him. He's well liked and I think he would be. I think he would be a good leader. I don't know if he would want it. I don't think he would want to do it.
- [45:06]
Matt Jones
It's got a pretty good life. It seems like he probably. Why would you want to waste it? Yeah. Well. All right. So Aaron, you used to. I'll finish with this. You used to work with ksr. You are a huge Kentucky fan, favorite Kentucky player of all time.
- [45:22]
Aaron Fleener
Man. So like when I was a kid, the first, I remember the 92 team pretty well, but like my first really when I got into it was when we won the title in 96. And I loved Anthony Epps like really well.
- [45:38]
Matt Jones
He's from, he's from down there. Yeah.
- [45:40]
Aaron Fleener
So he's from not too far from where I grew up and I just liked how like how hard he played and he seemed like he was like one of the leaders of that team. So like for somebody in the 90s, it was him like after that probably boogie was like, how could you not One of the guys from the past, you know, 15 years that I liked a lot. There's been a lot. I mean but those two probably stand out the most. I like Tim because I'm left handed. So I like the.
- [46:13]
Matt Jones
Do you play golf left handed?
- [46:15]
Aaron Fleener
No, I write it right handed golf, one handed stuff.
- [46:19]
Matt Jones
I didn't know you were left handed. Well, you did a great job on ksr. Used to write recaps of the Bachelor, which still, if you go back were some of our most read posts.
- [46:30]
Aaron Fleener
A funny thing most commented on for sure.
- [46:33]
Matt Jones
Oh, people got so angry that you would do that they'd say they gave you the whole stick to sports before that became a thing. They got really angry. But you seem to enjoy it by the fact that they get angry.
- [46:46]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah, I can't even watch that show anymore after I did that. It's just. It's such a bad show.
- [46:52]
Matt Jones
It's so terrible. But that's why you made it good. And then you. A funny story about you when it comes to you were suggested to me by big easy Zach McCrite to be a writer. And I won't say who it is, but I accidentally asked the wrong person. I didn't know you. And someone had written me and said, hey, I'd like to write for ksr. I thought it was you. So I hired that person and thinking it was you, and it wasn't. And they weren't particularly good. And I remember thinking, why did EZ suggest this guy to me? He's not particularly good. And then, like a year later, I met you and realized. I realized it was supposed to be you.
- [47:43]
Aaron Fleener
Yeah. I think Gabe ended up. Judge Gabe ended up connecting us.
- [47:47]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Aaron Fleener
But, yeah, it's been great, man. That was. That part of my life was a. Was a blessing. You know, I got to know Drew, and now Drew's, you know, one of my best friends, and just went on Drew's birthday vacation with him a couple weeks ago.
- [47:59]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [48:01]
Aaron Fleener
So it's been great, man. It's. It's good to see you guys still having continued success. And I know you guys work really hard.
- [48:09]
Matt Jones
Well, thank you. And congratulations. Good luck with the British Open and the FedEx cup coming. Aaron Fleener, appreciate you doing. I wanted to do this for a long time, so thank you.
- [48:20]
Aaron Fleener
Thanks, buddy.
- [48:21]
Matt Jones
All right. Thank you, guys for listening. We will see you very soon.