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The Matt King Show
020: Jamie Gruber | Personal Brands Are the New Real Estate - This Proves It l The Matt King Show
01:12:28
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- [00:00]
Jamie Gruber
Why isn't this on video? Why isn't this. Is this still recording? Good. Whoa. I want this in there. So uncomfortable talking about himself. You see this?
- [00:09]
Matt King
I'm not uncomfortable talking about myself. I just thought you were going to give me a compliment and say something nice, which you don't ever do.
- [00:13]
Jamie Gruber
Why are you reacting this way? Just come tell me why we're so uncomfortable. This is how a podcaster really operates.
- [00:19]
Moderator
All right.
- [00:20]
Jamie Gruber
This is what, your 12th interview? It's cute. Cute.
- [00:23]
Matt King
He had equity status and a future most people would envy. But when Jamie Gruber stepped into a new identity, the life he built around the old one started falling apart.
- [00:33]
Jamie Gruber
2021, I quit my job. When I quit my job, I had to give back almost a million dollars.
- [00:37]
Matt King
In equity because he chose a new identity, a personal brand over safe success.
- [00:42]
Jamie Gruber
I know I made all of that back income and equity wise, I made all that back and more. But more than that, man, I gave myself time, freedom, alignment with who I truly am.
- [00:50]
Matt King
Today, companies give him equity just to promote them because he knows who he is and owns it. Out loud.
- [00:56]
Jamie Gruber
Goldman Sachs recently wrote an article about a year ago saying that the creator economy is going to double from 250 to $500 billion by 2027. By 2032, it'll be at a trillion dollars. You know what else is at a trillion dollars or a little bit more? Pharmaceuticals. If you could get into pharmaceuticals, would you laugh at it? No. You would say, boy, that's a serious, serious business. The asset class of brand is the next frontier. It's the fastest growing industry in the world. But too many people, I think, that have businesses and they see the ability for social media to build that business. They go right to. They do, you know, they don't want to be an I or we in that they go right to them. I'll hire the team, I'll bring in the people. We'll do the thing. You got to. I do. We do. They do.
- [01:40]
Matt King
This is Jamie Gruber. You've done a really good job of reprogramming your software. Most people when you guys were moving to the Dominican said, like, you're crazy.
- [01:51]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [01:52]
Matt King
Most people when you were leaving your W2, I'm assuming I wasn't there.
- [01:55]
Jamie Gruber
You're not.
- [01:56]
Matt King
Terrible idea. You're nuts.
- [01:57]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah.
- [01:58]
Matt King
Now here you are living what I perceive to be just through the conversations we're fortunate to have, like your life, like the life you've always dreamed of having. You're sharing your message, you're influencing people. You're inspiring People, what role did Go Bundance play for you on that journey?
- [02:13]
Jamie Gruber
It was everything that was. It was the. It was the. The. The catalyst, the foundation, the support, the normalization that you could do things differently. I mean, look, I always say this when people. When people are thinking about gobundance, right? It's like, okay, look, you have a pod. This group of guys you meet with every week. You know, multimillionaire successful dudes that are. That are, you know, that are just driven, amazing guys to be around the year. The year I joined Go Bundles was the first year ever that I spent 52 times a year getting my goals in front of multi millionaires that held me accountable. I'd never done that before. Right. So from that point forward, the last six years, I've spent 52 times a year getting feedback from multimillionaires about my goals. Everything changes. How can it not? Think about it? Just think about that concept.
- [03:02]
Moderator
Right?
- [03:03]
Jamie Gruber
If I said to you right now, matt, hey, there's. There's five of these guys, super successful. They want to meet with you every week. But you got to bring your goals, you got to share what you want to do, and then they're going to kind of hold your feet to the fire on the stuff that you say you want to do. You got to go to lunch with them once a week for an hour. Would you go? Of course you. Yeah, everybody would. You'd pay for lunch. Yeah, that's go abundance.
- [03:21]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [03:21]
Jamie Gruber
Right. You'd pay for that lunch every week. It would add up to whatever the tuition is. And you meet with guys once a week. There's a whole bunch of other things to go about. But that's go about. So for me to get in a room. Let me. I believe so. Identity is, I think, what is at the crux of this? I think so many people get identity wrong. Identity is, I think, associated with. When I have it, then I will be. I think identity is a shift you make now, and then the result lags. Does that make sense?
- [03:49]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [03:50]
Jamie Gruber
Pregnancy is a great example of this. The moment your wife was pregnant with your fur. How many have now? Seven. How many kids do you have?
- [03:55]
Matt King
Thirteen.
- [03:56]
Jamie Gruber
Thirteen. I know you have three. The moment your wife became pregnant. My wife became pregnant. I was doing parent.
- [04:03]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [04:04]
Jamie Gruber
Because my identity instantly became parent.
- [04:06]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [04:06]
Jamie Gruber
I read that book, born protestant, born again Catholic, or whatever the hell it is. I read that book when my wife was pregnant with our first kid. That's almost 10 years ago now. Holy time flies. But I read that book because it was like, wait, A minute I have a person that's going to become. So I had the identity of being a parent but if you look at the definition of a parent, the kid wasn't born.
- [04:25]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [04:25]
Jamie Gruber
So I wasn't a parent yet.
- [04:27]
Moderator
Right.
- [04:27]
Jamie Gruber
But nine months later, the result lags. You shift your identity. The result lags. You step into a room you and you just sort of start going down that way when you're in that, that room of the identity. And I also get in a God universe believe that God in the universe will sabotage everything that's not your identity in your life. Which is painful when you stake claim to a new identity. So when I said I'm going to be an entrepreneur or I am an entrepreneur or I am a real estate investor or I'm a guy, my big vision was to travel three plus months with my family anywhere in the world. When I claimed that identity it was thanks to gobundance because gobundance doesn't look at guys. And gobunds don't care about my past. They don't care about where I've been. They care about holding me accountable to where I'm going.
- [05:05]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [05:05]
Jamie Gruber
So when I stake my claim to that identity and then I've got these guys around me that only know me for the identity I've claimed not for the actuality of where I am right now. W2 guy executive with company yada yada yada, like that was everything. Now all of what I did led. Oh, I'm sorry. All of the actions I took were being pushed, supported by whatever these guys. And the best, the best example of this I think is, you know, this is the thing on accountability. I think when somebody comes into abundance or, or just is talking about getting accountability I think the belief is and I believe this when you just like every week is going to be a bitch slapping and I need it slap me. I need to be like push forward. Every week's gonna be epic. But the reality is you jump into this group with guy of guys every week's a little different. Sometimes it's like yeah, it's really deep and you get this, this massive push. Other times maybe you're focused on somebody else for the entirety of the hour, hour and a half you're on a call. But the, the, the value that I've gotten is okay, here are my goals. Let me start taking action toward it. Every week we're talking about it. It's always front of mind. I'm always doing things. I'm always doing things and those little things that I'm doing week after week, month after month, even year after year, lead to an inflection point. That is where Go Bundes has made the difference for me. January 2021, February 2021. I quit my job. When I quit my job, I had to give back almost a million dollars in equity because I had restricted stock units. When I went to my pod with this idea that I was going to quit my job, it was, guys, I know I should. I got to give a million dollars. That's just not the right decision for me. I got to find something better.
- [06:42]
Moderator
Right.
- [06:42]
Jamie Gruber
I was ready to retract back to old me.
- [06:45]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [06:45]
Jamie Gruber
One of the guys, at least maybe two of them, said a million. Did you make that in a year? What do you mean? Like, have you seen what you're doing? You'll make that back and you'll make that equity back in a year. It's not real anyway. It's not in your pocket. It won't be till you're 60.
- [06:58]
Matt King
And it's not really yours.
- [06:59]
Jamie Gruber
Correct, Correct. Until they. Until it's yours, right?
- [07:02]
Moderator
Correct.
- [07:02]
Jamie Gruber
So you'll make that back in a year, maybe two. So now what are you going to do? I was like, oh, fuck, I guess I'm going to quit.
- [07:10]
Matt King
Do you think you made it back in a year?
- [07:11]
Jamie Gruber
Oh, I made it more than that in a year.
- [07:14]
Moderator
I think.
- [07:14]
Matt King
I think six months.
- [07:15]
Jamie Gruber
I did.
- [07:16]
Moderator
Right.
- [07:16]
Jamie Gruber
Because of partnerships I found within gobundance. I found the community. Right. I. So, yes, I think I made. I know I made all of that back, income and equity wise, I made all that back and more. But more than that, man, I. I gave myself time, I gave myself freedom, I gave myself alignment with who I truly am, the lifestyle that I truly want. To an extent, I think there's another level I haven't gone to yet.
- [07:34]
Matt King
But what's holding you back from going to it?
- [07:40]
Jamie Gruber
I don't know. I don't know. Do you feel that too? You have something in you?
- [07:44]
Matt King
Yeah, for sure.
- [07:45]
Jamie Gruber
I think the thing that, I think the, the easy answer on this is fear. But I want to make that more. I think the reason I fear going to the next level is because I know the person that's inside that animal, inside the, the, the intensity, the, the singular focus, the isolation that I'll take from family, friends, the lack of balance that I'll go into. Like, that's a raving lunatic. The next level, even the next level, my, my full potential.
- [08:32]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [08:32]
Jamie Gruber
Requires the raving lunatic in me, which is always sitting right here, ready to come out to come out and I fear what he does to all the other parts of my life.
- [08:41]
Matt King
Do you think that's the only way to get there?
- [08:44]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [08:45]
Jamie Gruber
To that level? Yeah. I don't think there's, to that level, I think you can incrementally improve. You think you can have a great life without going there. But do you know of a billionaire that's balanced?
- [09:05]
Matt King
I don't know many billionaires.
- [09:06]
Jamie Gruber
I'm just saying, even publicly, I mean.
- [09:10]
Matt King
Look, I think it's very hard to understand someone's balance when you're looking at them through media. You know, like Richard Branson is somebody that hypothetically looks very balanced. Right. He's playing tennis, he's windsurfing, he's doing all these things. But I'm not behind the curtain to know if he's really balanced or not. I mean, he's got multiple assistants or man, like maybe he's balanced. But is balance even you're talking about today?
- [09:35]
Jamie Gruber
Like once you're on the other side of something, you can, you could potentially buy yourself back. Whatever. We just had this billionaire talk today at this event down in Austin and he expressed, you know, like, you know, my, my grow time was 18 hour days. He's like, I had a bunk bed in my office. I literally lived in my office building this thing. And he asked the question, what if you could give the advice to your younger self, what would you do differently? And he goes, I don't think there is anything different to do.
- [10:03]
Matt King
You know, so then if you are on your deathbed, Looking back at 46 year old Jamie Gruber, what advice is, is nearly dead Jamie telling you to do now?
- [10:14]
Jamie Gruber
It's not to go to that level, you know, it's, it's, you know, like there's, there's levels I haven't gone to that don't require that maniacal psycho to come out. Definitely. And that's more like, I don't know, imposter syndrome. You know, procrastination, you know, fear of fear of short term loss for long term gain. You know, fear of getting out of your comfort zone. Like basic stuff. Yeah, I don't, like, I'm aware of that fear. Sure. Like I'm afraid to get in my comfort zone. I'm afraid of like, what if somebody judges me? But if I'm being really honest, the thing that scares me most is I know that if I unleash what's in me, it's just, it's, there's, I, I, I eliminate a lot of people in my life in A bad way, right?
- [10:53]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [10:53]
Jamie Gruber
And I'm just not willing to go there. So old me would tell me now as I think through it, and actually kind of try to feel my way to 85, you know, 90, come on, give yourself, grow. But don't, don't go there. It's not worth it. For some it is. For some it is. For some people, they just, they can't harness that. And that's great, but for me, it's not. Maybe there's a point in life where I do, but not right now.
- [11:14]
Matt King
One of the things I think that you said is beautiful is like, you create your identity, then the result comes. Now, I think a lot of us have the ability to change our identity internally, but we have fear to share it externally.
- [11:24]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah.
- [11:24]
Matt King
Now, you recently kind of wrestled with this. You were talking about when you fly in an airplane, you sit next to people, what do you do?
- [11:30]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [11:30]
Matt King
How has your life changed once you've owned that identity both internally and externally versus just honing it internally and being afraid to share it with the world.
- [11:39]
Jamie Gruber
The. Everything else gets sabotaged. That's not that. Here's a great example. So to your point, it's like my airplane test. When I, when I'm, when I'm, when I'm, what I say to myself in my bedroom when nobody's around and nobody's going to judge me, might be at one point like a podcaster. That's my identity. Even though my income, my efforts, my work was all in real estate. But I really love podcasting. The podcasting is not paying me anything. But that's, that's the identity I wanted to claim. I really wanted that. But when I got on a plane, I'm sitting next to somebody and I'm flying out of Punta Cana or whatever, and they're like, so what do you do? Like this, you know, person in a button down shirt, you know, that looks very professional. Like, I don't want to say I'm a podcaster.
- [12:18]
Moderator
Right.
- [12:18]
Jamie Gruber
Sounds goofy. But I know that if I do that, I've leveled up that claim to that identity. So I started doing that. I'm a podcaster. And some people would, some people would ask some really condescending questions, or at least I perceived them as condescending. Some people would say some stupid shit. A lot of people were really inspired by that, to be honest with you. But what instantly started happening was the real estate stuff started falling away. You know what I mean? Like, it, it was getting sabotaged. So I stepped back from my role with, with Quantum, for instance, in marketing and. And capital raising. Right. I had to step back from that because, like, everything was rolling toward this. Today, podcast is a component, but I really like the word creator as an identity.
- [12:58]
Matt King
So when you were telling people on the plane, I'm a podcaster, at some point, did that not really resonate and, like, light you up? And is that what helped you create the awareness of your creator, or was it just naturally you kind of move that way?
- [13:09]
Jamie Gruber
No, I think so. No, it was. No, it's not that it didn't light me up, but it's like. It's like anything. Like, you don't know until you do.
- [13:16]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [13:17]
Jamie Gruber
So I'm a big proponent of ready, fire, aim. Not ready, aim, fire. I think you learn after you fire, and then you can aim. So for me, podcaster felt like a big, scary, crazy identity. And so when I did it, I said it. And it's true. I love podcasting. I love the art of podcast. One of my favorite things to do. But. But even beyond that, I realized, like, it's one component of things I like to do around being creative. So at the end of the day, I like to say, I'm a creator. I'm a content creator, creator. Something like that. Like, that feels like the true alignment of identity for me as creator. Podcast is a component of that.
- [13:47]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [13:47]
Jamie Gruber
So it's not that podcast didn't feel good. It maybe just felt like, man, it's a step. It's a step forward, but it's not the full step forward.
- [13:55]
Matt King
Yeah. It's like a subcategory of the category.
- [13:56]
Jamie Gruber
Correct. And maybe there's something beyond that, I don't know. But right now, content creator feels very aligned.
- [14:00]
Matt King
Well, what? From my perspective, I listened to many of the podcasts you hosted. You not only were very good at asking questions, did a ton of work leading into the interviews. Like, you really studied. You took it very seriously. And many people that I've talked to said you are one of the best interviewers they've ever heard. Now, they never said you were the best, unfortunately, but you were one of the best. Right. And you interviewed hundreds of people. I don't know the amount. It was 400. 400 people.
- [14:26]
Moderator
Y.
- [14:27]
Matt King
What would you say the number one lesson you learned from all those interviews would be?
- [14:32]
Jamie Gruber
Number one.
- [14:35]
Matt King
Top three?
- [14:35]
Jamie Gruber
If it's top three.
- [14:36]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [14:36]
Jamie Gruber
That's collaboration, manipulation, and abundance.
- [14:40]
Matt King
Tell me about manipulation.
- [14:41]
Jamie Gruber
Those are my favorite word. I know it is. Influence might be the better phrase or the more socially acceptable phrase or whatever. The tip of it Was. Was the CIA guy, Andrew Bustamante, like, he got deep into manipulation. Like the actual phrase, like how marketing manipulates you and so on and so forth. I would say that what I learned from him and from that interview and then after that interview, kind of going back to other interviews and even future interviews that I had, it's like this is a kind of a you principle. Like we're all trying to get something from somebody. Right. And the person who is the most effective with manipulation, influence, whatever phrase you want to use.
- [15:22]
Matt King
I love manipulation. Just most people hate it. I think it's the best word ever.
- [15:25]
Jamie Gruber
It's what it is. Right now. You can use manipulation in a positive way, you can use it in a negative way, or at least how. How somebody might assign meaning to that, but you can use manipulation that is not in the best interest of somebody. A manipulation that is in the best interest of somebody. But what I loved about it was he was talking about at one point, hey, look, if the economy is bad and, you know, this is happening, well, I can. I can determine the attributes of my offer that best serve bad economy. Now, if the economy turns around and it goes good, then I know what attributes of my offer serve good economy. Right. Like, why you should in a good economy.
- [16:03]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [16:03]
Jamie Gruber
So that, to me was really something. Initially, it probably felt a little bit like. Like, yeah, you're tricking people. But if you believe in what you have, if you believe in your product, if you believe in what, whatever it is that you offer to the world, I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I think it's the right way to go about it. Like, get more people in it. The. The methodology is less important than the impact that it'll make. So manipulation was a big one. Collaboration and manipulation was, like, introduced to me by Christopher Lockhead, CMO for multiple tech tech companies, and like, in my face with Grant Cardone. Collaboration.
- [16:38]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [16:39]
Jamie Gruber
When I went to his office, 10X Studios, to do the podcast with Cardone, I mean, everything there felt like him, the doorman, the people at the front desk, the. The. The bullpen with all the salespeople, right into that. Into that studio. And I asked him a question at one point, based on probably the Christopher Lockett interview from, like, two years before. And I said, hey, when you are confronted with the category king, do you go directly at that category king, or do you try to create a new category? And he said, man, in the beginning, it was all about competition. He's like. And I would go right after that category King, he goes, now I've learned the power of collaboration. He's like, so I'd rather carve out a new category and partner than go directly at that. At that category. King. So the combination of the idea that we all can own a category and I'll get into that in a second, there's something really interesting that. But also that collaboration beats competition from a guy that, like him, love him, hate him, whatever, is a true billionaire. And even the. I probably have five billionaires that I've met. All of them are very collaborative. So collaboration was another lesson that I learned in that and that abundance was the third.
- [17:50]
Matt King
But talk to me about the category piece.
- [17:52]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah. So when Christopher Lockhead, I interviewed him, he was Talking about how 74% of all attention and revenue in a specific category goes to the category King. Kleenex owns tissues. You know, whatever. When you carve out a new category. Well, I'm sorry, 26% then are fighting.
- [18:14]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [18:14]
Jamie Gruber
For. I'm sorry, everybody else is then fighting for 26% of that category. Right, right. But if you're One of those 26% who say, does tissues with lotion in it, like puffs. Plus, now you got a new category. Now you're the king of tissues with lotion.
- [18:28]
Moderator
Right? Yeah.
- [18:29]
Jamie Gruber
So it's a matter of, like finding the category and becoming the king of that category instead of trying to fight for attention in that category. My personal brand. I am absolutely the category king in my personal brand.
- [18:40]
Matt King
What category?
- [18:43]
Jamie Gruber
Dominican Republic real estate investing and lifestyle, specifically. There's a lot of. A lot of lifestyle people, a lot of people that talk about minimalist lifestyles. A lot of people talk about moving there, a lot of people that talk about vacationing there. Best resorts is that. And the other. When I go into ChatGPT and I ask it for examples of. Of topics based on news cycles that are news articles I've seen, it'll often spit out, like, here's a video you might be interested in. And it's my video.
- [19:05]
Moderator
Wow.
- [19:06]
Jamie Gruber
Crazy.
- [19:06]
Matt King
How does that make you feel?
- [19:07]
Jamie Gruber
Amazing. Amazing that I've carved out that category. But that was all lessons from the podcast, you know, like understanding, like, you know, don't, don't go at the category. King. There's plenty of people in the influencer space in my niche that are like, oh, man, the Dominican Republic, you know, moving their living there. That none of them are going macroeconomic or microeconomic on what's happening in the US Economy that impacts the Dominican economy. What semiconductors are doing coming from China into the Into Dominican Republic. Company called World Emblem, largest logo manufacturer in the world. Just moved operations from China to Santiago, Dominic, Republic. I did a video on it. The CEO of World Emblem just called me and asked me if I would interview him.
- [19:42]
Moderator
Wow.
- [19:43]
Jamie Gruber
Like, that's category king shit.
- [19:44]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [19:45]
Matt King
And then that's created really cool opportunities for you, like helping to partner on developments. Sneaker deal. I haven't seen you wear the sneakers though.
- [19:50]
Jamie Gruber
But you guys got to go to New York soon.
- [19:52]
Matt King
Yeah. Sneaker deal. I mean, by owning the category, by owning your identity, doors have opened up that probably three years ago you would have said, nah, the CEO of World Envelope is not going to call me.
- [20:01]
Jamie Gruber
Right, right, right. 100%. Yes.
- [20:03]
Matt King
But you had to stake your claim.
- [20:04]
Jamie Gruber
You do. You have to. Yeah. If you're just noise in the room, then, you know, like with you, with what you're doing here.
- [20:10]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [20:10]
Jamie Gruber
You've got a Joe Rogan esque type experience. Brandon Turner's doing this. You know, Theo Vaughn's doing this. So many people are doing this. But the uniqueness of the ranch.
- [20:20]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [20:20]
Jamie Gruber
Is the category.
- [20:21]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [20:21]
Jamie Gruber
Does that make sense?
- [20:22]
Matt King
Yeah, absolutely. It's. It's experiential podcast. I mean, we just, we just had a podcast before you. They were ripping around on the four wheelers, driving the skid steer like you've gotten to do. And then you show up and what are we doing? We're shooting guns.
- [20:33]
Jamie Gruber
Right, right, right.
- [20:33]
Matt King
I mean, there's, there's a here that lives in Portugal that's never shot a gun, sends a video to his wife and she goes, are those real guns?
- [20:38]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah.
- [20:39]
Matt King
I mean, like, we're in Texas. Of course they're real guns.
- [20:40]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah, 100%.
- [20:41]
Matt King
And that is the opportunity I think I saw and learned from you. And the other thing I learned from you, which I think is a really cool concept, is when you look at Jamie Gruber's balance sheet, which we all talk about in gobundance, on your balance sheet, Jamie Gruber, the brand is one of your assets.
- [20:56]
Jamie Gruber
Oh, big time.
- [20:57]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [20:57]
Matt King
You don't look at it as, hey, I'm social media. You don't look at it as, hey, I'm creating it. You look at as. I am building an asset that will feed and provide for my family for a lifetime.
- [21:06]
Jamie Gruber
Yes.
- [21:06]
Matt King
What created that shift for you?
- [21:08]
Jamie Gruber
AES 2024. So the Austin Entrepreneurial Summit that you put on. So you, Matt, you created this?
- [21:13]
Matt King
I didn't, but yes.
- [21:14]
Jamie Gruber
So Cody Sanchez goes up on stage. We've. She's spoken at so many events.
- [21:18]
Moderator
Right.
- [21:18]
Jamie Gruber
Like It's. It's like they say, like, oh, I've heard her before. Yeah, I always challenge people like you. You weren't the person that you are right now when you heard that person, and neither are they. Right? So, like, it's like reading a book. Some people read a book every year because you're a different person. So she's up there talking about brand is equity. And she told the story about Bad Bunny.
- [21:36]
Matt King
You know Bad Bunny, I know the name, but, I mean, I know he's rapper ish person thing.
- [21:40]
Jamie Gruber
You're like an old man in a young man's body, dude.
- [21:42]
Matt King
I hate that kind of music.
- [21:44]
Jamie Gruber
That kind of music. Anyway, Bad Bunny went to her. At least his representatives went to, I think, one of her companies. And they were talking about. About. He's interested. He's interested in, you know, being a part of this. And da, da, da. And she and her team were like, great. How much? How much are you going to invest? And the team. And she tells a story that the Bad Bunny team laughed at her. Like, no, no, no, no, no. You pay us for the right for Bad Bunny to endorse your product, and he gets equity. Right. And she just kind of, you know, was blown away by that. So last year on stage, she talked about how people need to understand the value of brand in today's market and how you can exchange influence for equity. So for me, you go to conferences, people go all the time. Like, I always look for, like, I just need one thing.
- [22:26]
Moderator
Yep.
- [22:27]
Jamie Gruber
I'm not going to remember everything. People might want to go to every breakout. It's like, just allow one thing to hit you and then, like, build that idea. So that was the one I left with. That went right to my pod, of course. Right. It's like, guys, you know what I'm thinking about this? I have developers that are, like, reaching out and asking questions about my brand, this, that, and the other. It'd be interesting to, like, get some equity from them in exchange for promotion. Like, what do you think? 10%, 20%? Like, what should I ask if somebody's got a $200,000 condo they want to sell in a building? Like, 20 grand off, 40 grand off. What do you think? One of the guys is a developer, is like, dude, if your brand was in my market, I'd give you the whole thing. Like, come on. He's like, just ask. So I go back to doctor. I meet this person who's a developer. She's also in a bunch of other things. American expat. Lived there forever and she. And I had this conversation about what she's doing. Loves my brand, sees what it is. She's like, every real estate person in the world, they don't know how to market, right? I do. I've got an audience. So nervously, I was going to say, like, you know, hey, I'm interested in doing a deal. Maybe 10, 20, right. Nervously, I go to her, what would it take in exchange for my promotion to just get a unit, just an apartment unit of the building you're building and that we just went and visited. And she. I was like, so nervous. She goes, you signed for it? Like, what do you mean? She's like, it's yours. I. Anything else? She's like, it's yours. Okay, so now what? She's like, yeah, tell me what you want to do. Show me what you want to put out into the world how you want. I'm like, man, all I want to do is go every month. I want to document the build. I want to show what's going on. Like, I love doing that. I want to show the. The next level. And when the walls are built and when the, when the furnishings are in or whatever, then I'm going to furnish it. I'm going to, you know, my first Airbnb guest. Like, there's stories for months on this.
- [24:08]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [24:09]
Jamie Gruber
All promoting what you're doing with that building. And you're a broader development company. She's like, I'm in. Great. So that to me was like, holy. We're in a world where Goldman Sachs recently wrote an article about a year ago saying that the creator economy is going to double from 250 to $500 billion by 2027. By 2032, it'll be at a trillion dollars. You know what else is at a trillion dollars or a little bit more? Pharmaceuticals. So the in this world, that look at me as some sort of like TikTok dancer, like, oh, it's cute. This little add on extra to your business, social media. I would say to you, if you could get into pharmaceuticals at 300 billion when you knew today it's going to be at 1.4 billion trillion. Excuse me. And you had an opportunity to capitalize at 300 billion on what today is 1.4 billion, would you laugh at it? No. You would say, boy, that's a serious, serious business.
- [25:02]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Jamie Gruber
YouTube. Brand building. Brand building businesses, the business of. I'm sorry, the asset class of brand is the next frontier. It's the fastest growing industry in the world. And when you're getting into a Place of pharmaceuticals or 1.4 trillion car auto is 4 trillion. 4 trillion. That's big. It's four times the size of what brand will be in a few years. But still, like, you're in the trillions game here. Right. Like, you're not far off from auto.
- [25:31]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [25:32]
Jamie Gruber
Nobody laughs at auto. Nobody. Nobody would start an auto dealership as like an aside. Now, something that they do kind of over here and dabble in it, they would go full in. But they don't do that with brand.
- [25:42]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Matt King
Which gives you an unfair advantage. Right. Like every day, thousands of channels are coming online. Yeah. But multiples of those thousands are dropping off.
- [25:50]
Jamie Gruber
Yes.
- [25:51]
Matt King
And you're committed to it for the long haul.
- [25:52]
Jamie Gruber
Big time. And I've doubled down. I'm at four videos a week on YouTube. I release something every day on Instagram. There's a lot of intentionality around it. It all has a core message. It all drives to a certain funnel. So it's not just like, make something fun and make a video. It is all. They all lead to something.
- [26:06]
Matt King
Do you have any fear. Do you have any fear of your audience being on platforms you don't own and control?
- [26:12]
Jamie Gruber
Yes, of course.
- [26:13]
Matt King
Like, you lose your login tomorrow.
- [26:15]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. That's why you need to get them off platform.
- [26:17]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Matt King
So how do you do that?
- [26:18]
Jamie Gruber
I do it with an email list with my newsletter. So, you know, I drive them to my newsletter. I'll. I'll do a video. There might be some specific information in order to get the most value from that video and in the newsletter. So they. They enroll for the newsletter. If I'm doing some sort of wait list for something, I build the wait list. That waitlist goes on my newsletter. So definitely getting them off platform.
- [26:38]
Matt King
And then how often do you download that newsletter database and save it in a place that you can have once a month.
- [26:43]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:44]
Matt King
It's very systematic. Very, very. Because you look at it as an asset.
- [26:47]
Jamie Gruber
100%. That is my audience. It all goes down tomorrow. I have access to that audience.
- [26:52]
Matt King
Have you gotten an insurance policy on this kind of stuff?
- [26:54]
Jamie Gruber
Not yet. I do there. So it's funny. There are. There's a few different ones. There's. There's a. What's the one that Coffee Zilla didn't get? And now he's being sued by. By Logan Paul. Defamation.
- [27:05]
Moderator
Okay.
- [27:05]
Jamie Gruber
Defamation insurance. You should get that. Yeah, I should get that. There is a few other policies that you can get in the creator space. I can't remember. And even my CPA this year I'm switching to a creator cpa because my CPA is a real estate. She doesn't understand.
- [27:17]
Matt King
Yeah, she's good at what she does, but she's not a category king at running.
- [27:21]
Jamie Gruber
Correct.
- [27:21]
Matt King
Creator.
- [27:21]
Jamie Gruber
Yep, exactly. So, yeah, it's. It's a business. It's a full on. What's your boss's thing? I do. We do.
- [27:27]
Moderator
They do. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:28]
Jamie Gruber
It's that.
- [27:29]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [27:29]
Jamie Gruber
But too many people, I think, that have businesses and they see the ability for social media to build that business, they go right to. They do. You know, they don't want to be an I or we in that. They go right to the. I'll hire the team, I'll bring in the people, we'll do the thing. You gotta. I do. We do. They do. I think that with some exceptions you can like, you have, you know, you have somebody that producer. I have an editor. I've never edited my own stuff.
- [27:49]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [27:49]
Jamie Gruber
But generally speaking, you got to be in it. You got to know what your stats are, what's working, what's not, when does it fall off, when does it not, what's the right hook. Study the craft, you know.
- [27:58]
Moderator
Yeah. So, yeah.
- [27:59]
Matt King
Have you always been a studier because you really study the craft?
- [28:02]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah. Curious. I've always been curious. I've always like, wanted it. I see it in my kids now. It's especially my older one, he just goes down these rabbit holes. So, yeah, curiosity has always been a trait.
- [28:11]
Matt King
And then the other thing I want to touch on real quick is the economy. You kind of alluded to this earlier about like, things only have the meaning we give them. And then you talked a little bit about how in a, in a bad economy I can shift my offering to take advantage of it. In a good economy, I can shift my offering. There's a lot of people that are fearful right now of what's going on. Uncertainty. The terrorists trumps bitcoin. Who knows what's like the US Currency is going to fall off. What's going to happen? Interest rates, they're never going to lower them, they're going to increase them. What's your perspective on the economy being somebody that no longer lives in the United States full time and is able to sort of see the forest through the trees rather than just see trees.
- [28:44]
Jamie Gruber
It's hilarious to me to watch economy and politically to be outside and looking back in. Yeah, it's hilarious to watch. If you look at the economy, what people are looking at with the economy is an extreme. Zoomed in like one to Two week prospectus on it. Right. It's this, it's bouncing around like this. Zoom out to a year. The Dow, the S, P, whatever. Zoom out to a year, zoom out to five years. So right now as we sit, the, the S P dropped I don't know how many percentage points in early April of 2025. It's back now, right. There's all this, you know, whatever the right is like see the left is like whatever, you know, the whole thing. But everyone's freaking out. Trillions lost in 401ks. And like I, like my, my pod said like million dollars you're giving back is not yours.
- [29:30]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [29:30]
Jamie Gruber
You're not using it, you don't need it. But let's say the people, there are people out there that do, they're going to retire, Right. I'm going to assume that those people right now have been in the market for 30 years. Well, if you go back 30 years, you know how much the S and P has grown from 30 years ago? You have any sense?
- [29:44]
Matt King
Hundreds of percent.
- [29:45]
Jamie Gruber
It's 20 times. Yeah, whatever that is. 20x. I don't know what the percentage is on that.
- [29:49]
Matt King
2,000, 2,000, maybe some percent.
- [29:52]
Jamie Gruber
Right, whatever.
- [29:52]
Matt King
Yeah, whatever.
- [29:53]
Jamie Gruber
20X. It was $2,000. Yeah, it's 40,000. If you're sitting at and haven't invested at 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 10,000 and you're at 36,000, which is a massive drop or 44,000, which is a massive hike.
- [30:10]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [30:10]
Jamie Gruber
Does it really matter? You know like. Yeah, it'd be better if it's at 42, 43, 44 to cash out than at 36. But if you're in it long term, who gives a. Yeah. So looking back in from another country where politics are discussed but they're not personal, people just have a discussion and then they actually have a drink. It's no big deal. Like, whatever.
- [30:31]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [30:31]
Jamie Gruber
Looking in from that perspective because it's all driven by politics. The US economy, all of the noise around it is crazy. I think the US economy, I mean this is just my take. I think it's stronger than people realize. I think it's about to go stratospheric. I think that the hand wringing and the fear mongering and the maybe I should need to hold on to my cash and all that makes no sense. I mean you have to have a baseline, have some savings, you know, have some small bills in case the world ends. Like in Portugal and Spain when they were out of power for 24 hours mysteriously. Right. Like sure, prep A little bit. But then live. This economy is going to come back, you know, like, I don't know. I just think that this idea that, ah, you know what, it's hard right now because of the economy to sell something. It's hard to. That's all bluster. That's all an excuse because for, for whoever it's hard for, there's somebody that it's easy for. So just pivot your message to that person.
- [31:23]
Matt King
So how are you doing that for yourself? How are you pivoting your message? How are you staying safe? What moves are you making in your personal life?
- [31:29]
Jamie Gruber
I'm all in on my brand, to be honest with you, because the brand, again, if you think about it, what, what my whole theory is of what I'm doing is saying I, I don't need money to own. Right. I need influence to own. I don't know of an influence recession. Has there ever been one?
- [31:46]
Matt King
Not yet, but I mean has. Influence is relatively new.
- [31:49]
Moderator
Ish.
- [31:50]
Matt King
Like in the influencer space. I mean influence has always been around Michael Jordan Jordans. But really I think it's come on in a bigger way. Will we see a recession?
- [31:58]
Jamie Gruber
Recession is not the right word for it. You could see corrections, you could see algorithmic shifts on platforms. You could see a lot of different things that happen. But, but influence in general, I mean, were there not radio advertisements in the, in the Great Depression?
- [32:11]
Matt King
I wasn't here.
- [32:12]
Jamie Gruber
You know what I'm saying?
- [32:12]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [32:13]
Jamie Gruber
Were there not TV advertisements through the Vietnam War? Were there not TV advertisements and online ads during the 08 recession? Was there not more.
- [32:22]
Matt King
There's probably more.
- [32:22]
Jamie Gruber
Right. Money spent on entertainment during the, during the pandemic.
- [32:26]
Matt King
Well, because people use that fear and the eyeballs glued to the fear as a way to say, okay, this is. We've got eyeballs now. Let's go utilize those eyeballs to drive them where we want.
- [32:34]
Jamie Gruber
That's one. Or you can. Entertainment. Entertainment, absolutely. But if you're, if you, if you're exerting influence, I don't know that you can really go wrong now. You can do it in the wrong way. You can, you know, talk about the wrong topic. You can go after the wrong audience or not have any clarity on what your audience is. A lot of little things you can do within that. But, but no, I, for me, it's, it's continuing to build influence. I just see, I, there's infinite possibility economically, financially, when I think you're all in on influence.
- [33:02]
Matt King
And you gratefully handed over the reins of the podcast and said hey, good luck. Go for it. And helped. And we're very, very supportive. What do you miss most about the podcast?
- [33:10]
Jamie Gruber
I met this. This. This interview. The new show is more me. It's more. More, you know, I call it my way. So it's more like me talking about topics that are of interest to me. Occasional interviews, but I miss. I travel around. I remember going to Florida, you know, stop in Miami to meet Grant Cardone and then drive over to Naples and interview Tito Ortiz. Like, that's fun, man. And like, understanding them more than they understand themselves.
- [33:31]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [33:31]
Jamie Gruber
Before you get there, for them to go, like, I remember Tito or like, Grant Cardone says to me, dude, you. You've done your homework. Like, he said that four different times in the interview. We edited that out, but he said it. And then Tito Ortiz, when I asked him a question, going, dude, you've been researching me. Like, in a scary way. It's Tito Ortiz, you know, like, when he's looking at you, like, you've been researching me like that.
- [33:52]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Jamie Gruber
Huge. Jesse Itzler, Tom Bilyeu, all these guys to, like, spend time on stage or in person with them. I love doing that. So I miss this. I miss this aspect of it.
- [34:03]
Matt King
Who is your favorite to interview?
- [34:05]
Jamie Gruber
Sean Casey. I think I've told you about him before.
- [34:08]
Matt King
You got a little man crush on him.
- [34:10]
Jamie Gruber
Love Sean Casey, man, that guy. Former MLB All Star, three times. He was a ton of fun. To interview Dr. Sherry Buffington, who wrote the book Law of Abundance. Fascinating interview. And then actually the next week, I interviewed a lady named Sarah McCrum. She wrote a book, Love Money, Money loves you. That's been just transformational for me.
- [34:28]
Moderator
Wow.
- [34:29]
Jamie Gruber
Incredibly transformational. That interview was really, really interesting. And even something that came up that sort of become real recently in life, which is interesting, they jump out.
- [34:40]
Matt King
Which one disappointed you the most that you were looking most forward to? And it was just the stalest early on.
- [34:47]
Jamie Gruber
Gay Hendrix, who wrote the Big Leap.
- [34:51]
Moderator
Yep.
- [34:51]
Jamie Gruber
So I remember I released the interview and was almost not going to. And he was. He wasn't a dick or anything. It was just. He was all over the place. Like, I. I was so prepared and I had these questions. Then he kind of filibustered and went on tangents and went left, right up, down, all of that. And I'm like, I don't know what the just happened, but I released it anyway. So. He was a tough one. Bill, you was less than I expected it to be because similarly, he's. He's like big brain guy. He goes all over the place and, like, trying to rein him in. Plus, there's a countdown timer on stage, and I want to get to audience questions. So that was a. That was a hard one because of where his brain goes. So I didn't love that interview. Yeah, those jump out. You have one. It looks like you have one.
- [35:30]
Matt King
I mean, Tim Grover was probably, I thought, less than what it could have been. True. I mean, there's a lot of really cool experiences and stories that he has for his time with people like Jordan and Kobe and those kinds of things. And the story I'm telling myself is there was a lot of ego involved in the interview, and he didn't really want to go to them because it took the spotlight off of him.
- [35:52]
Jamie Gruber
Now, that was me. That was on me. And I'll tell you why that was on me. And part of the reason I stepped back from the podcast was I was finding myself needing to. And I don't know if it was. It was, again, a story I was telling myself. I was finding myself needing to serve the brand of gobundance and therefore take the interview and sort of morph it into entrepreneurial lessons. Yeah, I see more than what I really love, which is just conversation. And I think what I saw was the podcast grew fast. And it grew with, like, some member interviews. And then I doubled down and I would do member and then non member. And then I got into just this conversations based, like, just regular conversations, things I'm curious about. And it. And it really grew. But at a certain point, it felt like when somebody would say to me, oh, I listened to the podcast to get information about gobundance, and they were, like, unclear about the relationship I had. I felt the need to serve the brand. So, like, with Tim Grover, if. If I were just to talk to him again, I wouldn't talk one thing about business with him. It would just be basketball stories. That's it. I started with a few, but then I kind of went into, like, oh, let me serve this audience entrepreneur stories, yada, yada, yada.
- [37:03]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [37:03]
Jamie Gruber
So that, to me, was on me, not on him.
- [37:05]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [37:05]
Jamie Gruber
But that was one of the reasons I had to step away from it was like, I'm starting to, like, manufacture the interview versus being natural in it.
- [37:11]
Matt King
So, yeah, Tom Billy was another fascinating one. I mean, just actually a very introverted human.
- [37:17]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Matt King
I remember when he came down from his room to. To speak, he was listening to a book on tape. And as soon as he was done, he put his headphones back on and walked listening to a book on Tape, which I like, applaud. I think that's fascinating. But it seemed he lives in the clouds, and you were trying to, like, bring him down and get, like, tactical stuff.
- [37:36]
Jamie Gruber
That was just hard. Like, I. Again, I'll take. I'll take the blame for me, because I agree with you on Grover that, like, I steered him in a different path. But he was hard, Bill you, because, yeah, it was a lot of theoretical. He would reference all these books. Like, all he does is, like, ingest.
- [37:53]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [37:53]
Jamie Gruber
And, like, when he has the moment to speak, it's just. He vomits. So it was like, dude, take this down a step. Like, he's talking Web three concepts and crypto on. On a level that, like, I don't understand, let alone the audience and whoever's listening on. On the podcast. Right. What's interesting about him, too, is you've seen him shift his content recently. I think because of that.
- [38:13]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [38:13]
Jamie Gruber
His content has gotten a little bit more. I don't know. I don't know, like, leveled down.
- [38:18]
Matt King
Dumbed down.
- [38:19]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah, dumbed down. It's not so in the clouds, because I think he was starting to isolate his audience. Like, it started really good, and then, you know, it went to a place where he got really deep into these weeds of Tech and Web 3 and crypto and NFTs and yada, yada, yada. And he's reigned that in quite a bit recently. So. Yeah, that was a tough interview.
- [38:37]
Matt King
Yeah. I thought. I thought Jesse Itzer was awesome.
- [38:39]
Jamie Gruber
Jesse's easy.
- [38:40]
Matt King
He was.
- [38:41]
Jamie Gruber
Jesse's. Wind him up, let him go. The only thing I think that I did well, not the only, but the thing I think I do well with an interview like him. And even in all of them, like, you know, it's not like you have control over every interview, but you have to know where to interject, when to step in, how to wind them up, how much you need from them. So Itzler is ready. He's ready. He's got his stories, he's got his misogi. He's got all these things, like, ready to go. So one of the things I've always done in interviewing is rather than ask the question of, like, background, you know, tell me a little bit about this. Here's something I read about you. A lot of research. Podcasts will do that. I read. Tell me about it. It's like, no, you're wasting time.
- [39:18]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [39:18]
Jamie Gruber
So take all of the things that you learned about them, compile them, and then figure out what the deeper question is on that. So the thing that set Jesse off in a great way. Like, set him off on a, on a path was the question of, hey, you've done this, you've done this, you've done this. All of which were in the category space, like their own category. I asked him, is that, is that a natural, innate thing where you create categories or is it intentional? Ask him, is it intentional or innate for you to kind of carve out your own category? And that launched him on entrepreneurship. And then he just, he just ran. Yeah, so it was like the, the nice handoff. It was a perfect handoff to the running back, you know, and he just.
- [39:57]
Matt King
But you took away the opportunity for him to say, let me tell you about when I launched Z. Let me tell you about when I launched.
- [40:02]
Jamie Gruber
When you watch some interviews, man, he has to go into that and it's like, why? Like, he's told that story. Go hear it somewhere else. Yeah, you know, you could summarize it quickly. You did Zika water sold to Coca Cola. You did. I forget the jet company. You know, you're the first card based jet company, private jet company, and even his book, Living with a Seal, Living with a Monk, like it's a living with a series. Right. It's sort of its own category in the book department. That's where I came up with that question is, wow, you always do something a little unique. Is that innate or intentional? And he's like, n, it's entrepreneurship. That's what I am, you know, so that was a great answer that he gave and he went with it.
- [40:38]
Matt King
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- [43:57]
Jamie Gruber
The Matt King show.
- [43:58]
Matt King
There's a ton of gold because again, I, like you, didn't want to be stuck having conversations that only serve, you know, go bundance. Like, look, I love the GoBundance community. It's absolutely changed my life. Some of my closest friends are in that community. Some of the hardest advice and feedback and criticism I've received is from that community. And it's, like, near and dear to my heart. I feel as though I've been raised by it.
- [44:21]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [44:22]
Matt King
But I think the best way to serve that community is to be unapologetically myself, which means the conversations are going to go into places like religion. The conversations are going to go into places about beliefs and identities and all these things, because somebody listening somewhere needs to hear that message today. And who am I to not let them listen to that? Because I have an agenda of, like, here's my 13 questions. We got to get to this one every single time. I mean, even when we set out to do the show, one of the questions I wanted to ask every single guest was, where in your life are you most Flirting with disaster? I absolutely love that question. And there was one interview where I just, like, didn't feel right to ask it. And then I was reflecting on in my journal after, like, why didn't it feel natural? I'm like, because I don't want to be that episode. That's like. Like, these are the seven. Let's get to the rapid fire round. Jamie. So what's the best book you ever read? Tell me your favorite quote. What song do you listen to before you speak? Like, I don't. That just doesn't resonate with me. I want to be interested in it. I want to be curious. So what's next for Jamie Gruber?
- [45:12]
Jamie Gruber
It's. It's all on the personal brand side, and I think it's multiple feeds off of that. So there's. There's my personal brand talking about, you know, life in the Dominican Republic. I. I think that has a shelf life. I don't think that's a forever thing. But I'm learning a ton about YouTube. I'm learning a ton about building brand. I'm learning a ton about funnel getting people off platform. So it's awesome. And I'm making some money doing it. The. The thing that's sort of adjacent to that is the. It's called. We call it Grub with Gruber. Right now, it's an interview series, but I'm. I'm feeling. I've done about 12 of them and they're fine. But what I've learned. This is kind of crazy to say is the issue within that, within the personal brand with featuring somebody else, is unless that interview is somehow about me, it's less interesting to the audience.
- [46:00]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [46:00]
Jamie Gruber
Does that make sense?
- [46:01]
Matt King
They're coming for Jamie.
- [46:02]
Jamie Gruber
They're coming for Me.
- [46:02]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [46:02]
Jamie Gruber
That's a lesson I've learned over 12 interviews. My coach, Beau, who we both have, he's been telling me that, but I've learned it the hard way. So I see grub with Gruber being more of my. My version of Anthony Bourdain. My version of somebody feed Phil, where I've started to go out. And, like, I did an episode the. The other day at a restaurant where I tested seven tequilas. Seven different tequilas. And I rated them. Like, that's more what grub with grouper will be.
- [46:23]
Matt King
Which one did you like the most?
- [46:25]
Jamie Gruber
I forget the name of it. Cielo.
- [46:27]
Moderator
Okay.
- [46:27]
Jamie Gruber
Or Sierra. Something like that. I forget the name.
- [46:30]
Matt King
Might be Toliverse.
- [46:31]
Jamie Gruber
Huh?
- [46:31]
Matt King
Might be Toler.
- [46:32]
Jamie Gruber
No, no, he's Siempre, which means always. So, like, I see that, like, as an adjacent thing. And then I love podcasting, so my way, which, you know, go buy a sponsor. My way, that podcast, which I've been, like, up and down on the exact way I'm doing it. Interview. Don't interview. Ben. I've been working so hard on something that's, like, not even really fully out in the world yet. But that. That is. That is like, me, me. It's not. I need to serve this audience who wants to move to Dominican. It's not. This is really an interesting way for me to take brand and be strategic with it. Like, I can go beyond the Dominican with food. I can go anywhere with food. But, you know, I love food and all of that. This is just like, I don't give a fuck if you hear me. Other than the sponsorship, of course. I don't give a fuck if you hear me. I don't give a fuck what you think.
- [47:15]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [47:15]
Jamie Gruber
I really don't. It's my way. This is how I see whatever it might be that I decide to. That I decide to do. My issue with that is I got to make sure I'm not going too crazy on, like, I'm going to review a rap video today or whatever. But you get my point. Like, that is. That is, like, me legacy, long term. It's the reason I stepped away from Tribe of Millionaires. I was serving a brand. I was starting to feel like I was serving a brand.
- [47:37]
Matt King
And when you said it, you said it best. People don't follow brands. People follow people 100%. And so, like, you going and doing my way will actually resonate with more people.
- [47:47]
Jamie Gruber
Yes.
- [47:48]
Matt King
That you want to be in your proximity. And the ones that don't. Don't resonate with you don't want them in your following anyways. It's like trying to convince somebody that doesn't like ice cream to eat ice cream. You're not going to get them to.
- [47:59]
Jamie Gruber
It doesn't matter. Exactly. And it is such a. It's like such a compilation of learnings, like, oh, I know how exactly how to use YouTube with my way to get maximum reach. Exactly how. You know, I know exactly what to do from a podcasting perspective. I know how to structure it. I know how to. If I do interview, I know how to run that interview. I know how to cut those interviews in order for them to be the Most effective, efficient, YouTube specific type of. Type of content, you know, so, yeah, that's where I'm going. YouTube is my vehicle right now. But always looking, you know, how do I get them off platform? What do I sell them, where do I push them? What do I give them to get them off platform? For sure.
- [48:34]
Matt King
And then the last thing I want to touch on is you just left an Emerge event.
- [48:37]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah.
- [48:38]
Matt King
Interviewed a billionaire from stage and Emerge was kind of your brainchild, if you will, inside of the gobundance community. And I think it was because you saw that people where you were at in your life prior to qualifying for GoBundance weren't being served, weren't being met.
- [48:52]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [48:53]
Matt King
Talk to me a little bit about what you've created with Emerge and what your vision is for.
- [48:55]
Jamie Gruber
This is what I love about Emerge. Like right now I'm here interviewing with you, right?
- [49:00]
Moderator
Yep.
- [49:01]
Jamie Gruber
While a billionaire is presenting to 60 people from the Emerge community in downtown Austin. So what we've. Community, what we've created is GoBundance. It's a GoBundance community. Emerge elite champion. Right. And what I mean by that is like I. I kicked it off. It was all me, only me for a while. We built a team. You know, we're growing. We've got our fits and starts. Sales have been tough, all that stuff. But we're, you know, we're trying to onboard people with this, but it's become now, and this is your phrase, I love your phrase, for members, by members. So Andrew, who's the regional leader for the Texas chapter, is leading this event. He and the billionaire JD chatted. I wasn't involved. Kyle, who's our community leader, member ambassador, you know, he gave a talk at the beginning of it to make sure everybody's clear on and he's running things day to day in that regard. I've got the marketing guy, I've got the operations guy. I've Got all these people in the background running it. So I get to show up and do what I love, which is my identity. Which is what is my identity.
- [50:00]
Matt King
Creating.
- [50:01]
Jamie Gruber
That's what I do. I do my monthly town hall. I. I create content for people. I leverage connections to bring them in and. And serve the community. Different, you know, different content series that we have every week. I handle the onboarding because I get to meet and interact with these people and influence them as new members of Emerge. So where it's going is just, you know, hopefully to the moon. You know, we're kind of tagged on with you guys with Go Abundance Elite Champion, of course, you know, to kind of grow. But I love what it's becoming. It's not about me. You know, we have a regional chapter leader, like, that leads the regional chapters. Right. Like a member that's leading all the regional chapters and then we have a member leading each regional chapter.
- [50:38]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [50:39]
Jamie Gruber
Amazing.
- [50:39]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [50:40]
Matt King
So I love it. Yeah. I love, you know, so many people. And I'll just speak for myself, but I'm sure it's true for you too. On my journey, so many people reached down and helped me out. They pulled me up. And I feel like for a while, you know, gobundance wasn't necessarily filling or serving that need.
- [50:56]
Jamie Gruber
Right.
- [50:56]
Matt King
It was kind of like, hey, if you qualify, great. If you don't qualify, here's some other possible opportunities, but we're not really attached to any of those.
- [51:03]
Jamie Gruber
Yep.
- [51:03]
Matt King
And so what's really cool from my perspective, leading gobundance and leading this community is you raised your hand and said, we need to reach our hand down.
- [51:10]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [51:11]
Matt King
And not in like a derogatory, not like a negative way, but like, hey, people helped us on the journey. We need to help others on the journey. And so we have members and elite and Champion that are coming back to do millionaire case studies with the Emerge people. We have members in our community that are hiring the Emerge people, partnering in business with the Emerge people. Emerge people that are going to people's houses and saying, that blew my frickin mind. I never thought it was possible to have an entire wall be the picture of what happened at a Super bowl with the Philadelphia Eagles. Right. Like experiences are being made, creations are being made. Opportunities for these people to see other opportunities that they've been limited from their entire lives has all been created because of your doing.
- [51:46]
Jamie Gruber
Yes. And I think you need to take more credit for that. Meaning. All right, so you and I met what, a year and a half ago.
- [51:53]
Matt King
In Chicago, would have been last June July?
- [51:56]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [51:57]
Jamie Gruber
Was it?
- [51:58]
Matt King
Yeah.
- [51:58]
Jamie Gruber
No, it wasn't. July 2024.
- [52:00]
Matt King
Yeah. That was when the Chicago champions was.
- [52:02]
Jamie Gruber
No.
- [52:02]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [52:03]
Jamie Gruber
Okay. No, it wasn't. It was a tribal council, I guess it was tribal council head of champion. Right?
- [52:08]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [52:09]
Jamie Gruber
That was the first time I actually think I got to know who you are sitting down with you, allegedly. To the extent that it's possible to know you. To the extent that it's possible to know you. You know, before that, you were, you.
- [52:21]
Matt King
Were.
- [52:24]
Jamie Gruber
Protective of, of your ego, protective of your, of your, of. Look, you're, you're in a position, you have been in a position where you sit at the right hand. Go back to the Jesus God thing of, of God of gobundance, right?
- [52:37]
Moderator
Of. Of.
- [52:38]
Jamie Gruber
Of David osborne, you know, $250 million guy, everybody. He's such a dynamic New York Times best selling author. So you're the guy that to get to him, people have to go to. So naturally, everybody has their hand out. Naturally. Then you take over. Go abundance and even more hands are out. Right. So the interactions with you as you took over for me, where, hey, look, emerge is being kind of kicked to the side. It's been kicked to the side. And it was kind of beat my head against the wall a little bit in the beginning in our conversations because again, you're looking at it like, hands out. His hands out. Something's going on here. You know, what the, what's his agenda? What's the agenda? What's the agenda? When you and I sat in Chicago and, you know, not getting into the details of it, but just had a real raw, honest.
- [53:22]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [53:22]
Jamie Gruber
Down to earth, you know, conversation. And I got to know. And probably for you as well, like the boy behind the man. Yeah, the damaged boy behind the man for both of us.
- [53:32]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [53:34]
Jamie Gruber
That opened up a lot as far as I think, trust and man, hopefully I haven't violated it too much, but that's been something I've really, really made sure that I've held onto is like, you know, no matter what it is, I'm not gonna. I don't want to get to a place where I give you any excuse to go back to the place where you don't trust. Cause I don't think you have anybody in your life to trust. Maybe your wife.
- [53:54]
Matt King
I trust people to be themselves.
- [53:56]
Jamie Gruber
Okay, but who do you trust with your best interest?
- [53:59]
Matt King
Definitely my wife.
- [54:01]
Jamie Gruber
You sure?
- [54:02]
Matt King
My kids, maybe.
- [54:03]
Jamie Gruber
No, you can't. They're not. Don't put that on them.
- [54:05]
Matt King
But honestly, dude, my kids, I'm pretty connected with my Kids. A lot of people see my life and they go like, oh, I'm like you. I give my kids a lot of, like, what's going on, and I trust that they're gonna give me their best perspective on it. But more than that, I trust that regardless of what happens, they're gonna love me. And to me, like, that's the ultimate trust. Like, trust. Trust to me is like, I got your back no matter what happens. That's my kids.
- [54:27]
Jamie Gruber
Correct. Okay. Your wife? Who else? It's probably it, right? I mean, I'm not. I'm not in that category either. You don't have that kind of trust in anyone other than your wife. I think you need more people than your wife to have that trust in again. It's okay to understand. Like you said, I trust somebody to be themselves. It's okay to understand that there's always an agenda. So when you and I talk, I always talk about that, like, look, here's my agenda.
- [54:48]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [54:48]
Jamie Gruber
This is clearly the benefit to me.
- [54:50]
Matt King
That's what.
- [54:50]
Moderator
Yep.
- [54:50]
Jamie Gruber
Right. This is. This is where I see the benefit to me. And that's not to trick you or whatever. That's to make sure that I'm maintaining trust. But from that conversation forward, you know, my whole thing has been, man, look, I think what we're doing in a merge has been considered, like, other than go Abundance and then there's a merge, but I needed to be part of it. I think that's the best way for this entire community to thrive. Right. And you've been extremely accepting, even despite recent stuff that. Out of both of our control. Right? Fuck.
- [55:21]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [55:21]
Jamie Gruber
But. But you've been extremely accepting, extremely welcoming, and I don't know if I tell you that enough, but I really appreciate that. So, yes, you're right. I'm all in on it. We're throwing the rope down. But that rope doesn't get down if you don't allow for the whole of go bundles to be a part of that.
- [55:36]
Matt King
Look, man, I've really grown to appreciate who you are. I've really grown to understand how you operate, what drives you. And more than anything, I've learned a ton from you. And so, like, being able to be in business with you, being able to partner on things with you, collaborate on things with you, minus the voice texts. I absolutely love interacting.
- [55:55]
Jamie Gruber
What is your issue with voice texts?
- [55:56]
Matt King
Here's my problem with voice text. If you want to talk, call me.
- [56:00]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [56:01]
Matt King
If you want to text, text me. Don't call me in a medium that I have to listen to something that I should be able to read. Never move to Latin America drives me.
- [56:08]
Jamie Gruber
Fucking never move to Latin America. That's all we do.
- [56:11]
Matt King
I literally will respond to people and say, I don't listen to these. Like, because if I'm on a zoom call, right? And you text me now, I shouldn't admit this, but I can answer your text while on a zoom call.
- [56:22]
Jamie Gruber
Sure.
- [56:22]
Matt King
You send me a voice memo on a text call while I'm on a zoom call. You've now just given me somewhere between 30 and 60 seconds of my life that I now have to go take to listen into that away from something else I could be doing.
- [56:34]
Jamie Gruber
Can I play devil's advocate?
- [56:35]
Matt King
Of course.
- [56:36]
Jamie Gruber
You're also hard to get a hold of.
- [56:38]
Matt King
Oh, I know.
- [56:38]
Jamie Gruber
And so therefore, when. And you've explained to me that you hate voice texts. How many do I send?
- [56:44]
Matt King
You just sent one. That's the only reason I brought it up.
- [56:46]
Jamie Gruber
I know. My point is, if I'm sending you a voice text knowing that you hate voice texts and you're acknowledging that you're hard to get a hold of, I am too. You know, Brandon is coming today. Fucking guy.
- [56:57]
Moderator
Like, we.
- [56:58]
Jamie Gruber
Our texts are months apart. He texts, I respond two months later and vice versa. But if those. If those variables are in place, then it must mean that the voice text was highly intentional and highly important.
- [57:11]
Moderator
No, I agree.
- [57:11]
Matt King
I'm.
- [57:12]
Jamie Gruber
Did you listen to it?
- [57:12]
Matt King
I did listen to it. I actually listened to yours, but I didn't reply to it. But I listened to it. But that is a good use of voice text. My pet peeve with voice text is it's most people that are having a conversation with you, like, oh, sorry, the dog's barking. Like all. There's this. There's all this filler bullshit.
- [57:28]
Jamie Gruber
Never moved to the end.
- [57:29]
Matt King
It literally should be a 30 second text of like, hey, what do you want for dinner? And instead it's 97 seconds long of, hey, what do you want? Oh, sorry, I forgot this. Hey, let me ask you a question. What'd you have for lunch? And then next thing you know, it's like, we're not having a conversation.
- [57:42]
Jamie Gruber
All good. Ye other question I had for you is why. Why did you just introduce that where were we going? That you were uncomfortable. We were talking about you. We're talking about learning from one another. We were talking about collaborating a partnership. And then you felt the need to insert the joke on voice text. So where were you uncomfortable?
- [58:00]
Matt King
I don't remember where I was going. I was just giving you because I know. I told you I didn't listen to it. I actually know.
- [58:06]
Jamie Gruber
But you brought it up randomly, which, to me means you were avoiding a feeling or an emotion or something.
- [58:11]
Matt King
No, I was just trying to, like, remind you of that. I told you I didn't listen to it. Like, one of things I really enjoy is. And it goes back to the word you learned from podcasting. Manipulation. Yeah, I think manipulation is the.
- [58:23]
Moderator
The.
- [58:23]
Matt King
The secret sauce to everything. And when I tell people that, like, I got super sideways with some of my friends when we had just gotten out of college. Like, we were living in Austin, they were up in Wisconsin, and they all booked a trip to go to Napa or Sonoma. I don't know the difference. But we were going to, like, wine country next to each other, and they had all had the plan, and then all of a sudden, like, last minute, we got invited, and so we're like, yeah, sure, we'll go, whatever. And so we go up there, and we're all drinking wine, and I said. And I started talking about manipulation. One of my friends, like, got super aggressive with me, and he's like, that's disgusting. I'm like, look, friends are manipulating friends. And he's like, no, we're just friends. I'm like, that's bullshit. Because I said you guys had this trip planned. Somebody must have backed out, because you invited us very last minute. I'm like, so you manipulated me to fill that room to avoid the cost. Yeah, you like me. That's fine. Whatever. We'll have fun. But you manipulated me to come there. And I manipulated you to say, I would never book this trip myself. I'm going to come there and go to Sonoma. I'm like, that is manipulation. And that's okay. It's a good thing. And he got like, dude didn't talk to me for almost a year. He got so sideways over that, he couldn't.
- [59:26]
Jamie Gruber
What brought you back together?
- [59:28]
Matt King
Just time.
- [59:29]
Moderator
Wow.
- [59:30]
Jamie Gruber
Why is that? How does that serve you?
- [59:32]
Matt King
Serve me what?
- [59:33]
Jamie Gruber
The thought that you just had to look at everything through the lens of manipulation.
- [59:38]
Matt King
Because I just understand that the perspective is the reality.
- [59:42]
Jamie Gruber
But does that create just cynicism? Do you live a life of cynicism?
- [59:45]
Matt King
No. Like, I think you can manipulate for good all the time.
- [59:47]
Jamie Gruber
You can, but you're. You're. You're. You're saying that you're patently aware at all times of what's happening from a manipulate. A manipulation standpoint.
- [59:56]
Moderator
Yeah. Right.
- [59:56]
Jamie Gruber
You're manipulating or being manipulated at all times.
- [59:59]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [59:59]
Jamie Gruber
And you're you're seeing it like numbers in the matrix.
- [60:02]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [60:02]
Jamie Gruber
So does that lead to you being cynical?
- [60:06]
Matt King
Possibly.
- [60:06]
Jamie Gruber
Does that lead to you not being able to have trustworthy relationships?
- [60:10]
Matt King
I think there's more that leads to not having trustworthy relationships.
- [60:13]
Jamie Gruber
Like what?
- [60:14]
Matt King
Like past experiences and the labels I've given the past experiences, such as losing one of my best friends when we were 23.
- [60:21]
Jamie Gruber
What does that have to do with.
- [60:23]
Matt King
Because I. I tied getting close to people being super open and trusting of them to losing them. So now I'm afraid if I let somebody in, I'm gonna lose them.
- [60:31]
Jamie Gruber
How do they die?
- [60:33]
Matt King
Pulmonary embolism from a torn acl.
- [60:36]
Moderator
Okay.
- [60:36]
Jamie Gruber
Oh, I think I remember you telling me about that.
- [60:38]
Matt King
So, like. But. But those are the labels I'm currently working on.
- [60:41]
Jamie Gruber
What's the label? What's a more empowering label to peel back?
- [60:44]
Matt King
Honestly, unfortunately, his death was one of the greatest gifts that ever happened to me because it showed me that we're only here for a very small amount of time. We were living in this small town in Wisconsin. Everybody was having fun. We all hung out. We played soccer together in high school. We played soccer together in college. We paid pickup soccer. Like, that was all I knew was the world. I never knew anything more than that. And then when. When we lost Craig, I thought, holy shit, what if I go tomorrow? Like, what regrets am I going to die with? To your point, like, you don't have any regrets, but, like, what am I going to wish I would have done? And I was like, I'm going to start living my life rather than I wish I would have bought a zebra of, like, shit, I didn't know that zebras do this. Next time I'll do a little bit more research. And so for me, shifting that perspective has really been powerful. But I'm working now to undo the label or the meaning that we talked about earlier that I gave that death to justify it in my life at that moment.
- [61:32]
Jamie Gruber
Why?
- [61:33]
Matt King
Why am I. Because I think it's holding me back.
- [61:35]
Jamie Gruber
How?
- [61:36]
Matt King
Because I'm not getting open with people. I'm not letting people into my life because I have a fear.
- [61:40]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah.
- [61:40]
Matt King
That if I let them in, they're going to lose, they're going to leave, they're going to be gone.
- [61:43]
Jamie Gruber
The. The counter to that in my mind, and tell me if we got a rap, by the way, you know, are we good?
- [61:49]
Moderator
All right.
- [61:49]
Jamie Gruber
The counter to that in my mind is, have you ever considered what his life would have been like, short as it was, if he didn't have you?
- [61:57]
Matt King
Absolutely.
- [61:58]
Jamie Gruber
What do you come up with?
- [62:00]
Matt King
I mean, he would have been just fine, quote unquote, but our lives were better because each other were in it, which I think is beautiful, which I think is great. But again, the pain that I felt as a 23 year old kid, didn't know who to go to, didn't know who to talk to, didn't know what these feelings I was feeling, you know, were. Oh, then that's another organized religion thing that was really interesting to me. We went to his funeral and I will never forget the pastor's like, whatever thing, whatever you think of why Craig died, whether it's that God needed another soccer player, you're wrong. Like, this was just his time. Like, okay, well I'm 23. If I need to sleep at night and say God needed another soccer player. So Craig died, like, just let me be with me, like, just leave me alone. But, but, but nonetheless, like from my perspective, our lives are so much better because of each other and all of our friends lives were so much better because of his. And his life was so much better because of all of our friends. It was amazing. But in that moment I felt so much pain that I didn't know how to communicate with anybody or talk to with anybody. And so my defense mechanism was I'm just going to go internal and I'm not going to talk to people.
- [62:57]
Jamie Gruber
What's your relationship with him?
- [63:00]
Matt King
With Craig? What was it?
- [63:02]
Jamie Gruber
What is it?
- [63:03]
Matt King
You know, I still think about him often, still talk to him randomly. One of the cool things is I have his picture from the funeral on my visor. You know, like the flip down thing.
- [63:14]
Moderator
Yep, yep.
- [63:15]
Matt King
And so my kids know him. They could tell you the whole story about how he passed away, but we don't, we don't openly talk about losing him. My friends and I will talk about like the memories we had with him and stuff, but a lot of times, like every time before I speak, I think about like man, like Craig would just walk on that stage with confidence, walk on the stage account. Like, what would Craig say? Like, what would he do? So he was like very much like a role model. He was a couple years older than me and so we always kind of looked up to him. And so it's still kind of like when I need that sort of inspiration or that motivation, it's just a conversation we have.
- [63:45]
Jamie Gruber
What's the, what's, what is his relationship with you right now?
- [63:50]
Matt King
God, if you don't want to think like the guy, like, I feel his hand on a lot of the things I'm doing.
- [63:55]
Jamie Gruber
As in, like what?
- [63:56]
Moderator
Like.
- [63:59]
Matt King
I know where you're going with.
- [64:00]
Moderator
This, by the way.
- [64:01]
Jamie Gruber
Where am I going?
- [64:02]
Matt King
He didn't leave you? He hasn't left you?
- [64:04]
Jamie Gruber
No.
- [64:04]
Matt King
Okay, That's. That's easily. Easily where you can go hunting.
- [64:08]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [64:08]
Matt King
Yeah. If you choose to go there, that's where you can go. It's pretty easy. But, like, no, no, I just. I just feel. I feel like. Not a safety blanket, but I feel like I got you at times. Like, when I need that. I got you. I can. I can feel that. And I. Through the conversations or my mental journaling, all that stuff, I can feel like it's him.
- [64:25]
Jamie Gruber
What's the value of. What's the value to you for him today?
- [64:30]
Matt King
What is the value to him for me today?
- [64:34]
Jamie Gruber
Let me try that again. What is the value. Like, what value is in his life? What's the. What value do you add to his life?
- [64:42]
Matt King
I think just living the way that he would have lived. Just keep taking action. Keep taking opportunities. Don't apologize.
- [64:48]
Jamie Gruber
Do you consciously do it with him in mind?
- [64:51]
Matt King
There's days. Absolutely.
- [64:52]
Jamie Gruber
So is his legacy living on when you.
- [64:56]
Matt King
I would say a version of it.
- [64:57]
Jamie Gruber
Which version?
- [64:59]
Matt King
I mean, I probably could harness it more authentically, more frequently.
- [65:02]
Jamie Gruber
What do you mean, authentically? That's interesting.
- [65:04]
Matt King
Well, look, I mean, one of the things we talk about is when we are achieving our level of success growing up, we think the way to accumulate success is say yes. More things.
- [65:14]
Moderator
Right.
- [65:15]
Jamie Gruber
Sure.
- [65:15]
Matt King
And then we get all these things, and we can't say yes to possibly everything. And right now, I'm in a season of my life where my theme for the year is just saying no because I need to say no to more things.
- [65:24]
Jamie Gruber
Sure.
- [65:25]
Matt King
The current version of me is like, hey, no, Jamie, I can't do that because I have a doctor's appointment. The answer is no and just be done with it.
- [65:33]
Moderator
Sure.
- [65:33]
Matt King
And so, like, that's how I could do it more authentically. But I'm working on that skill like we talked about earlier with. With Beau and with Eddie. Like, some of these things are muscles that develop over time, and you have to. You know, I've been working really hard to remove judgment from myself and from others and just working through things with, like, compassion and grace and, like, yeah, I'm not that good at saying no right now. So I've built barriers around my life where literally, I don't have my phone, so that when somebody needs to say no as me, it's not me.
- [66:00]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [66:00]
Jamie Gruber
Who survived him.
- [66:02]
Matt King
His Both of his parents, they still alive? Yeah, both of his parents are still alive. His younger brother, who's still a year older than me, was my best man at my wedding.
- [66:09]
Jamie Gruber
Have you talked to them?
- [66:10]
Matt King
Yeah, I talked to him all the time.
- [66:12]
Jamie Gruber
What's the conversation like?
- [66:13]
Matt King
I mean, we talk about Craig. We talk. I mean, his younger brother is still older than me. He was my best man. We talk all the time about. Sometimes it's about Craig. Sometimes it's like, hey, Craig would have loved this or would have been this. Or, hey, I was thinking about Craig. Sometimes it's like. Like who you betting on for golf? I mean, we play golf together. He lives in Wisconsin. We talk about kids. We talk. I mean, everything under the sun.
- [66:33]
Jamie Gruber
When I quit my job, it was. It was. It wasn't anybody. Anybody that close to me, but a guy I knew named Paul that died. Yeah, I remember 49 years old, 48 years old, whatever. He was of a heart attack and he just. We were. We were very similar type of people. We. We faced similar challenges with the types of bosses that we had as a result of that. So we had. We found a lot of solace in. In conversations that we had professionally. And then, you know, that morphs into personally. So when he died, it was really jarring. Not because I was, you know, best friends with him or I don't even know who his wife was. I mean, I knew he was married and he had kids, but didn't know anything other than that about him.
- [67:06]
Moderator
Right.
- [67:07]
Jamie Gruber
But it jarred me. And that was the decision point where I said, I'm out. I gotta quit. You know, like, who knows how long we have? I gotta live my life now. I. Not long ago, I had it in my head because so much of what I have done has been with him in mind. You know, I've talked about him on stages. I've. I've. I just today mentioned him. He came up in conversation today. And a lot of the. The. If I look at my life today and were to route it back to a single point, this is post gobundance because I talk about gobundage journey, but like quitting the job, I mean, and moving abroad. It came back to that moment when I learned that Paul died. So I had this thought that I want to talk to his wife. And the reason I wanted to talk to his wife was to say to her and make sure she understood that in whatever small way, your husband's gone. You know, it's been a few years. Obviously your boys, two boys are growing up without a dad. She has no idea. I don't know her. That not only do I speak of him, not only does he inspire me and motivate me on many things in life, but when I finally did get her on the phone, which was like a, you know, I had to find a way to get her and it was a weird. I was like, she's not going to answer. Of course. Picks right up. Right. God, it. Let's go with that.
- [68:22]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [68:23]
Jamie Gruber
She picks right up and I tell her. And I broke down in tears, not expecting that that would be just a regular casual conversation. But I said, I just need you to know that I don't mean this to come off the wrong way. He's gone, but he lives on in everything that I do. So every step I take, everything that I do, Paul is living in that. He's here for that.
- [68:46]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [68:46]
Jamie Gruber
This billionaire that just spoke jd, he told me this story and I hope he doesn't mind if he hears this. Me sharing. He told me the story of his brother in law, his wife's wife's brother. His wife's Mexican. His brother in law owned clubs in Mexico City. Clubs and restaurants and that kind of stuff really well, really well to do guy. The cartels started to really infiltrate that area and at one point they wanted like more access to his restaurants and he told them no. So one night when he turned his back, he was assassinated. Bullet in the back of the head. Earlier that night, when I was talking to this guy jd, he was telling me about he doesn't eat pork. Because I was saying, oh, you know, I would love to eat this. He's like, oh, I'll do that. I just don't eat pork. I thought, whatever, he doesn't like it, he's allergic to it. Whatever. Later he explained, he goes, my brother in law, the one that was shot, was Muslim and Muslims don't eat pork. He goes, so every time I'm faced with pork and I decide not to eat it, it wow, he's alive.
- [69:43]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [69:43]
Jamie Gruber
He's real. He's. He's his. He lives on as a result of that.
- [69:47]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [69:47]
Jamie Gruber
I say all of that because I wonder, do you know, maybe it's maybe yes or no. If his brother and his parents not only understand that you're honoring his legacy.
- [69:57]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [69:58]
Jamie Gruber
But at every moment that you, you do that, that you're literally living his life or he's living life through you, that he's living with every decision you make with him in mind. Do they know that?
- [70:10]
Matt King
You know, I should probably reach out to them. Again, I don't know if you remember this. I think it was 2021. You did a merge event here in Austin. Evan Carmichael spoke and you invited me to speak. And one of the exercises I had everybody do was I made them take out their phone and text somebody that needed to hear thank you that they haven't thanked in a while. And that exercise literally came from. I had reached out to them like the week before to do just that. Like I just was call it. God was reached out and like, and just said like they need to know this. And then a couple years ago we went down to Cabo as a bunch of friends group and everybody was having a great time. It was the last night we had dinner, all this stuff. Everything was great. And I was just like, hey guys, I think we need to like talk about the elephant in the room. And I like just shared how I've been living my life because of that and he's still living and he's like all those things. And I mean there was eight grown ass men and eight grown ass women bawling like babies over carnitas or whatever we were eating. I don't know what we were eating, but you know, I don't think we could do that frequent enough.
- [71:07]
Moderator
Yeah.
- [71:07]
Matt King
And so probably doing it more frequently.
- [71:09]
Moderator
Be good.
- [71:09]
Jamie Gruber
Yeah, I feel like that's where you are. Like this, this lack of trust or these, you know, untrusted or like no trusted advisors other than your wife or you. I just think. I don't know, man. But anyway, all of that was to say I appreciate how much you've. You've. We have come along together since that meeting in Chicago and how that's impacted what the impact. How that has impacted, the impact we're making on people in gobundance, in emerge, in, well, gobundance and go Bundle's emerge, if you will.
- [71:37]
Moderator
Right.
- [71:37]
Jamie Gruber
And all of that.
- [71:38]
Matt King
So yeah, it's been an honor, man. It's really been a fun journey to be on with you. It's been fun to watch your hockey stick, growth of your own personal brand. It's been even more rewarding to watch how fulfilled you are and how excited you are. I always saw, you know, Jamie Gruber sort of the ghost of like, I'm here, but I'm not here. And now I see like Jamie Gruber the man, like when those guys were just here before and you guys were talking branding and all this stuff, I mean, you light up like a Christmas tree. And I just love seeing other people fulfill their dreams, their goals, especially inside of the gobundance community, man. It's been an absolute honor.
- [72:10]
Jamie Gruber
I appreciate you, brother.