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- [00:00]
Ryan Deiss
And I remember just being so, like, uncomfortable and so like, what the are you doing, man? I feel so ashamed. I feel so incapable. Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I in this business?
- [00:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
This right here is where 99% of people tap out. But the 1%, they lean in, they build momentum and they create magic out of the chaos.
- [00:21]
Ryan Deiss
That's what creates the magic of a founder, is you are a momentum builder. Like this thing didn't exist. Like no one's going to do it for you. You have to do every piece to this right now. That's the responsibility, that's the accountability. That's the magic. You get the outsized return. On the other side.
- [00:40]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
The ones who win in the end, they're not the ones who are necessarily the best. The ones who win are the ones who keep going.
- [00:46]
Ryan Deiss
We own plunge.com and the keyword to plunge, the registered trademark of it. Like, we've really the leaders in the space not just from volume and revenue, but like an actual the brand too.
- [00:55]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
So if you feel like you're about to break or throw in the towel, good, you're on the verge of building something revolutionary.
- [01:02]
Ryan Deiss
You got one shot at this whole thing. Like, you know, we sit here, I got, I got 40 to 50, maybe 60 more years if I'm like doing this really, really well.
- [01:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
This is Ryan Dewey, you guys started it. Did you ever imagine it would be this big?
- [01:23]
Ryan Deiss
No, not a chance. No, no, it was like, I mean, I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I would compare it to you and your Longhorn. Like, you kind of got into it. Like, I'm kind of into this. Let me, like I am into this. Let me do, oh, I can make a few bucks. I could sell a Longhorn. Yeah, like, and then imagine you became like the largest Longhorn dealer in the world. That was the extent of kind of our, you know, the business plan was let's build, build 20 of these. That was like our concept in the garage. Like I told Mike, we'll build 20. He had a van, we can hand deliver each one right out of California. We had an email list because we had capital floats. He had reboot and we just emailed those businesses. And then obviously there was a lot of pent up demand that was there early.
- [02:13]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Well, you guys kind of created a market. I mean, people getting in cold water has been a thing for a long time, especially in athletics. Right. The ice bath world has been around for a long time, but this idea of bringing a cold plunge unit into your house, I Mean, from my awareness, you guys like created that industry like you created the opportunity, but now you have all this competition popping up everywhere you look. How has that changed your business?
- [02:38]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I mean there's, there's part of it that's excitement because it's like, it's a category, you know, and any good category, people are going to jump in. I think it's a, it's also a sexy category. So, you know, where there's more appeal and more cultural interest people want to run and start that business. I don't know how many of those businesses take off that are doing it. To me, it's almost, I look at like cannabis in California. Like, if you weren't in cannabis at some early stage and you've tried to jump in now, you're not, you're not, it's not going to work out for you. I kind of see that in the cold industry, but yeah, I think overall it's great. More and more people are getting into it. Um, I think we, you know, when we started out, yeah, our competition was a chest freezer. Um, you know, it was like someone turning in their meat freezer into a cold water container. That was our big comp. There was some other, there were a few other companies that were building mostly very high end or like more like we would call them like art projects. Like super 20,000, $25,000 units. Not really a scalable project, but they were doing that. And then we kind of came in at this unique, unique look where it was like, you know, the, both the man and the woman wanted the product in the house. They were both on board with it. That looks good. It's, it's a good looking unit. And it was, at the time when we came in, it was like a unique price point. So we were like, let's go solve that. Those were like our two kind of core, core characteristics we wanted to hit. You know, I told Mike, if we can't get this price point, at the time it was like 5k was like our original white plunge that we launched. I was like, if we can't really build what we think of builds just around that price point, like, I don't think this is that interesting. I don't really want to go after that. And so we, we did that. And then early on we also made this big bet around this term cold plunge. Like that, like you said it like this industry, this cold plunge, it's like that wasn't a term. It was ice bath. Ice bath was 10x on Google. The search term, if you looked it up at the time and we just made this like bet. Like we've always, we built the brand around like simplicity, like call the thing the thing. So obviously our brand is Plunge. Like we called it plunge. Our products are, we try and make it very simple and not our, you know, dual. Like we just want it to be the thing, call the thing the thing, make it simple for the customer. And so we were like, I just think cold plunge is this term that is going to be utilized. We bought the domain thecoldplunge.com for 10 bucks. That was like an, that was like our big early win because then, you know, we're in the garage and we're cutting PVC pipe and building these original, the first generation products. And I'm getting calls from Florida, I'm getting calls from Texas. It's like, hey, didn't know you guys existed. Like been looking for it and it's like, yeah, we're here. And like, you know, we turned the website on six weeks ago and they, you know, just a search on Google, you know, Google wasn't even, There was no, like, there was no reason to buy an adword of cold plunge on Google. If you started creating content around the term cold plunge back in 2020, 2021, you were going to be first page. There was only a few people doing this, you know, and that's been a huge win for us. Now as you know, we own plunge.com, we have, we, we own the keyword to plunge, the register trademark of it. Like we've really, as a category, like really kind of created. This is like, you know, the leaders in the space not just from volume and revenue, but like an actual the brand too.
- [06:17]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. What's really cool too is, you know, I've, I've been fortunate to spend time with you hiking a stupid mountain, which I don't know why either of us agreed to do it. But you know, I think a lot of business owners, founders have sort of shiny object syndrome. Like, okay, we'll go chase that, we'll go chase that. You really said, hey, we're going to focus on plunge and you've added a sauna. But like I was on the hike telling you, like, what about this? What about that? You're like, it's not really in our thing. It's not really in our thing. So as you've gone through this journey, have there been any shiny objects you've desired to chase or have you just said we're going to be the category king and plunge.
- [06:50]
Ryan Deiss
I mean, yeah, I think there's, I mean, we didn't really have a choice when we started. Like, there was so much growth so rapidly. So it was like, dude, we just got to keep the wheels on the bus. Like, we got to keep going. And so we were just like building, trying to ship product. How do we keep improving this product? You know, we launched and it grew really rapidly so that even the first gen product, we were making changes to the product quickly. I think where we've gotten shiny object syndrome is like on marketing. Like when we were, you know, when you're the new kid on the block and everyone wants act, everyone's interested. It's like we could go a million ways.
- [07:29]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [07:30]
Ryan Deiss
And we can market. There's no wrong answer right now. And we can go there. We could go there. And I think that was our thing over the first two to three years where we probably overspent in areas we probably weren't as. Didn't like focus as much as we needed to on a partnership or a campaign that we did because it's like, we'll get that. And then, oh, this new celebrity came in and they want to do something, let's go do. And we never maximize. So I think from a product we've had a pretty clear roadmap. I think our team ships product really, really well, Launches and we, we do that and iterate quickly and efficiently. Where marketing's been more of a journey to how do we like hone in and do this, you know, with maximizing it. I think we've left a lot on the table there.
- [08:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Well, the marketing world's changed so much since you like started. I mean, 2020, the term influencer was starting to become a thing, but it wasn't at all what it is today. And AI wasn't around and Facebook ads were like there, but they weren't quite there. Like now everybody's all in on the space. So you've, you've had to kind of like grow up in this ever evolving marketing world where billboards no longer work a hundred percent.
- [08:34]
Ryan Deiss
I think it's like we've had to figure out what works. Like I don't first. I come from a brick and mortar service business background, very different than E commerce, manufacturing, digital landscape. So us learning about marketing in this landscape is. It's not only evolving, but it's. We're new to it, so we were new to it. So there was a lot of big learning curve there, I think. Yeah. I mean, Facebook and meta are such big Drivers for. And Google. Google's a lot simpler, but meta is always evolving. And you know, we've had to learn like how, how to create content around that, how to, you know, what is. What is ad creative? Like, you know, we, we were doing so much on organic, which I think was beneficial to the business and probably played a factor into our performance marketing. But we would spend so much on performance marketing was mostly where our dollars were, but we were not focused on the creative that was going into that, which is kind of crazy when you think about it. It's like most of the lion's share dollars are here, but we're not focusing on that. And that's. We've had really strong like brand team and we've really had to evolve and build this performance side of the team. So it's been like the influencer world. You know, we've had to. Early on it was like we had access to so many great people and that was kind of how we built this business. Like we have, you know, the first one, we're here in Austin, it was like Aubrey Marcus was our first individual that we flew out to his home. That was the first unit we ever shipped in the history of the business, really. And it was like, I didn't even know how to. I mean, we're talking a large. These are cold plunges, you know, this is a big, big freight shipping. I didn't. I was like calling trucks of like, hey, like, how do you ship this thing? And they're like. It was almost comical. They're like, dude, no one, like ships a one off, like freight piece to Texas. Ended up getting one on a truck randomly. Completely overpaid because I didn't have an account or any of it. Trying to buy a box completely. Don't know how dimensions work. The box is upside down and wrong. I was like, just get it on there. Didn't have any testing into shipping freight. Obviously there's a lot that can go wrong. It's not like it just goes on a truck and everything goes perfect. By the time it gets to Texas, that thing probably was touched by 8 to 10 different groups of people. You know, it goes on. It. It went from our place down to Sacramento's main hub to Sacramento to Reno. Got off the truck in Reno. So it's like a million things can go wrong in the, in these tests. It shows up and somehow it works. Like we fly out to Austin. It works. So what I'm getting at is like, that was. There's been a lot of like, when we went to Aubrey's house. That was like, our first one. And he was. He was kind of like. I think he opened the door, made a couple introductions to us, and we find our. Then we find ourselves at Andrew Huberman's house or Tony Hawk's. And, you know, that was like, we weren't really playing the influencer game. We were playing more of, like, true gifting. Like, hey, we want to gift this to you. And we were founders that were there in their home. And that, I think, is a huge. Like, there's a world of influencers where it's like your influencer managers, you never really connect with them. And it's very transactional.
- [11:42]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [11:43]
Ryan Deiss
That's a thing. Just be clear that that's trans. Ours was like, hey, we're building this business. It mean the world. If you just like, they would ask, what. What can we do? And we'd be like, just share it.
- [11:54]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [11:54]
Ryan Deiss
However that's authentic to you, if that means telling your mom that this is the greatest thing ever, or if that means going on a podcast and saying, I love this. And that we would get. Wouldn't always work out, but we would get 10x returns from a lot of people just from that relationship building. So that was. That was early on. We got a lot of units out into the market. Like, that was our concept. If we can get it to, like, these 20 people, we want to make it feel like we were everywhere and have this network effect. And we were able to accomplish that in kind of the first nine months to the business. But then it's evolved so much, then it just gets like, you know, there's a scale number of, like, I can't. I got introduced to this. I'm building a relationship, you know, with someone where at some point, it's like, I don't have enough bandwidth to even talk to all these people. And we want to keep growing this way. And that's when it gets a little more like, okay, we need structure. We do have to almost turn this transactional. We do need to, like, make sure it's clear deliverables. And there is a, like, contract. Contract and clarity around what we're needing and what we're wanting. And then it's evolved a lot too, where back in the day, it was just, like, we would get an organic post that would go get a few hundred thousand views, and that's just not. That was what cold plunging was at that time. Like, that was what the algorithm was interested in. It was this new sex. Like, that's not the game anymore. Like, we can't just post a post and, you know, we're getting 5, 10,000 views, and that's just like, what is normal now. So it's a different, like, okay, that worked then. It does not work now. What does work now? And that's kind of our game to.
- [13:30]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Figure out as you made that transition. And, like, it has to become a little transactional. I get that. But you, at your core, is very relational. So how have you not, like, sacrificed who you are, your core values, while you've built the business, while you've scaled? Or have you sort of let a piece of you die and say, hey, I can't be the relational guy I was?
- [13:52]
Ryan Deiss
It's. It's a constant battle. It's definitely like. It's. It's a core thing that I love to do. You know, we have a few other people on the team that we've hired that I think are good at relationships too. So I do trust them to build. Like, now there's, you know, people that are partners of ours that I don't have a real relationship with. I try and check in. I think it's also the, like, the adjustment of the stage of the business, like, when it's early, like, as a founder, which I love, like, you're in building it. Like, I'm showing up to homes. This is how. This is just what it needs right now. And then it gets to a point where, you know, you got 100, 150 employees, and there's different needs and different. Like, my time to go take off for a week is more impactful on the business. There's dynamics to it. There's times that I need to be with my executive team, and we have to be digging in. So it's. It's a balance. Like, you know, here I'm on this trip in Texas, so I can kind of do get out to a few different partners and, you know, meet with. You meet with a few different people that I get to connect deeper with. But it's a. There is an impact now, like, being away from. Being away from the business. And so it's. Yeah. Long story short, I haven't. I haven't nailed that. It's a hard part of it, but it is important to be out. And there's nothing like meeting people. And a lot of the ones that flow, like your and I's relationship has been. I think it's a good example. It just, like, they naturally build.
- [15:22]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [15:22]
Ryan Deiss
You know, we're on a few calls early. We're getting to know each other they just. It's like some just like stick more. Like, I was with Greg Sheinman yesterday in Houston, and he was like, known as the midlife male guy. He got 20, 21. Just like, was one of like, we had a bunch of influencer esque people, you know, and him and I were. And then it just, oh, you know what? Him and I really vibed. And now it's like, you know, I have a deeper relationship with him. So, you know, some things just come and flow and. But it's a balance for sure.
- [15:55]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [15:55]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
What's interesting is, like, the people that you cross path with, like, they're either relationship driven or they're transactional. Right. Like, I'm sure there's a lot of people whose path you've crossed. You're like, oh, this is going to be a cool relationship. Like, I really vibe with them, but their mindset is much more transactional. Like, you're giving me the plunge. You're servicing the plunge. No, I'm not paying for that plunge. Like, you know, it's much more transactional. Right. And they try to use that sort of influencer space or their clout to say, like, give me, give me, give me. And that's like what the world has done for them. So that there has to be a lot of balance, too, of like, understanding who you are at your true core. A giver, somebody that wants to serve, somebody that wants to help, but also somebody that's not going to get taken advantage of it.
- [16:35]
Ryan Deiss
You nailed it. And that's. I've had to develop that because I'm naturally, like a very trusting person. Like, you say what you're going to do. Cool. You're going to say what you're going to do and that works. Or you're saying this is all about the relationship when at the core it's like, no, you just want a cold punch.
- [16:52]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [16:52]
Ryan Deiss
And like, okay, like. But let's just. And I've had to, like, get clarity into how do I ask the right questions? How do I. And yeah, there is a piece that gets a little jaded. Like, that's not, you know, that is. And I really value the real relationships that come. I love. It means a lot in these partners where, you know, people check in. It's not about the cold plunge. It's like, oh, cool. Like, just as a human. That feels good. Like, we've developed a friendship. And so it's. I've had to. It's been. That has been one of the more challenging. It's very astute on Your end. But that is definitely one of the more challenging parts to it.
- [17:32]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. I mean, unfortunately or fortunately, I've had to experience it too. Right. Like, there's the, there's the art of manipulation, which happens all the time in life. Like, I'm always, right now I'm manipulating my wife to get a giraffe. Like, I really want a giraffe. So I'm like, how can I get her to say yes to getting a giraffe? Which one of the ideas is buy her it as a gift, which I don't think would be well received. But like, it's hard to say, hey, this is a shitty gift. Why'd you get this to me? Like, we're trying to teach our kids, whatever people give you, you accept and you're grateful for. So that's like one of my manipulation, you know, mindsets. But, you know, we're all manipulating all the time. Like, that's a life. And I, I recognize that. I understand that. I've pissed a lot of people off by saying, like, that's what life is. People are manipulating all the time. And when you have kids, which you're about to have, you'll see it's all the time. Like, how can I prolong bedtime? How can I avoid brushing my teeth? How can I get that snack, get that cookie, get that toy. But at the end of the day, in business, I have always found more success with just being blunt and just being candid. But I've also experienced a lot of people, whether they think I'm dumb, whether they think I'm naive, or whether they just don't recognize what they're actually doing, try to take advantage of me, my time, my resources, my energy, my connections. Because they're just looking to go to the next level for, for them. And I personally have found the best way to go to the next level. And whatever you're trying to do is through service. And it sounds like that's what you've done as well. You just try to serve people. It's just like when, when you deliver the cold plunge to Aubry, you probably could have said much more clearly what he could have done to help you. But you're like, hey, I just want you to enjoy this. And if you enjoy it, share it with somebody. I don't really care how you do it. And that's like a service based mindset.
- [19:07]
Ryan Deiss
It was a very pure, especially those early, that first year, like Mike and I are both. We've been a burning man, which is like the gifting culture. Is like really big there. And to your point, like, gifting, it's like, gift it. Like, don't come with expectations. Like, if you're showing up there, do that. And on those early runs, like, special. When we were in those homes and we were, you know, we'd buy, rent the U Haul and we'd drive these units down through California and drop them off. That was like a very special time in the business and pure. And like, like I said, it was like, it was, it was, it was a unique moment because it was getting to be with people that had given so much to me in my life that I felt like I was now on a stage to give them something.
- [19:47]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [19:47]
Ryan Deiss
And that felt like just like empowering. It felt like I had. Man, you've done something that you've gotten the attention of people that you have admired for so long that now, you know, care about what you're doing. So that was like a really fulfilling and really grateful for that window. You know, I also really appreciate, like, when influencers or partners or celebrities come, like, there's no, there's no worse question than like, hey, let's partner. Or like, it's like, okay, you're coming to me. Present to me what you want to do.
- [20:26]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [20:26]
Ryan Deiss
I love when people show up and they say, okay, hey, Ryan, I want to partner with you. These are XXXX and X is what I would like to do in exchange. Like, to your point of like being blunt, being like, those are the deals that I tend to say yes to. Like, great, dude, you've already thought this through. You know the value that you can bring in exchange for the thing that you want. Let's just get it done. Yeah, like, we're not here to cool. If we build a relationship. Great, like, we will have something. But like, you've been very clear and clarity. And so that's, you know, something I've. Let's. And those tend to actually end up building into bigger relationships because it's really clear of what they're coming. They're not coming to, like, hey, you give me this and we'll, I'll figure something out. It's like, no, I'll show up with value as well.
- [21:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Have you always, when you are trying to work on a deal that you're delivering to somebody, have you always approached it with that mindset or has this experience taught you to go with a well thought out, well articulated plan to the potential partner?
- [21:25]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah, it's that. And I think we've been in a unique spot where we haven't Chased a lot of our partners, kind of our way of going about it has been first, like, first principle is like, they need to love this. And before we do anything, like, so a lot of them reach out to us. So there's a lot of initial, like, I'm not here to convince someone about cold plunging. I'm not here to go to, you know, some ex celebrity that's not cold plunging and be like, hey, you'd be awesome. Like, do you want to do this? It's more the ones that are like, this changed my life. I really would love to do something with you guys. Here's the channels that I can go through. So that's really how it's been. And then learning through them. Yes. Into, like, just business proposal and business partnerships. Like, set the agenda early. Set, like, bring the clarity. Like, move quicker. Like, if you want something, that person's already, you're the one that wants the thing. So you need to get their attention and make this super simple and quick for them to, like, make a decision. So, yes, when I, you know, where. Where there could be. It's also more when I need something for my team, I think about, like, okay, cool. Like, as opposed to just talking it through, like, be very clear into what I want from them. So, yeah. Learned a lot from those. Those partners, influencers that present clearly.
- [22:48]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. It's amazing because, like, in life, when you're clear, it goes so much smoother and so much faster because the expectations were set on the front end, but yet we all have this, like, desire to negotiate. And, like, I'm not gonna throw out the first number. I'm not gonna throw out the first thing. But in my life, I've. I've too found what you found. Whereas if I go there and say, here's exactly what I can do, X, Y, and Z with this thing that you have, can we create an opportunity? The conversation goes much quicker, but it also is much more successful because the expectations were delivered on the front end.
- [23:18]
Ryan Deiss
And it's also just like. Or get off the pot. Like, learn that in sales. Like, get your no quick. Like, there's nothing, you know, talk with our sales team. Or it's like, I hate when a deal is lingering.
- [23:31]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [23:32]
Ryan Deiss
It's like, I get a no. Like, let's celebrate a no and move on, dude. Because time is the asset that we're actually up against here.
- [23:40]
Guest or Co-host
Right?
- [23:42]
Ryan Deiss
So, yes, in the, like, if you get the clarity, hopefully it accelerates the deal quicker. If not, you get a no a lot quicker. And your mind space can Go into the new thing a lot quicker.
- [23:51]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
So time being our only asset that we're up against, has that been something you've always been aware of or has the journey you've been on through your life made that more clear for you?
- [24:00]
Ryan Deiss
I mean, I kind of just said it. It's definitely always operating in the background. It's. I mean, at the end of the day, like, that is. That is the asset that everyone would trade everything for. So it's like, I do look at that as like the core asset. Like, it's a finite. There are, you know, really one, two guarantees here. We're talking to a human. You've been born and you're going to die. Like, that is the only thing I can guarantee. And then within that, there's a finite number of time that we have. So, yeah, it's just more of like, I think from a business perspective, I zone in outside of like death and human life. It's more of just like we are trying to operate quickly and efficiently and time is a. Time is the. One of the KPIs of that. How quickly can we do this? You think we can do it here? Let's really like, are all factors in. Can we shorten that or actually maybe we need to lengthen that to do this even more correct. So, I mean, time is one that's like, I think is a. We don't really think about it in like a KPI format. We think about rev. We think about these other. All these others. But like, how well we do something in a window of time I think is like a really important thing for us to reflect on.
- [25:15]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Well, and like, you're not just saying this like you preach it. I think I saw a video that you guys did where you had some texts change out a filter and see who could do it faster. So, like you're gamifying the KPI of time.
- [25:28]
Ryan Deiss
That was like a huge win that you're talking about that we did the Filter World Filter Change Championship.
- [25:32]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
There it is. Yeah.
- [25:33]
Ryan Deiss
And you know, it's like something we thought about the product, like, okay, the all in, like, there's a unique part of that design that makes that filter the easiest filter to change. And if you own a cold plunge, you know, like, this is something I have to do. I have to change a filter. And when that once a month comes up, if it's in a shitty spot, it's annoying. It's really frustrating as a consumer. So we, we designed that product. We want this to be the easiest thing you ever have to Do. And we did it. And then we're like, okay, how do we demonstrate this? And we were kind of going through. The team had been grinding at our headquarters and we were like, okay, how do we make this like, super fun? Like, how do we tell a story to the world that first you can change your filter in under 10 seconds and then secondly, how do we get the whole company to rally around? And we did this whole, like NCAA tournament championship. And so, yeah, that was like a fun we. In the time factor. It's an interesting one. You're, you're going into a good zone here because, like, that's kind of at the core of our products. What it is like a cold plunge, arguably is the best ROI you're ever going to get on your time. Two minutes at that temperature from point A to point B. There's very few things, in fact, I really don't know the things that can take you from there to there in that window of time. Sauna. It's a big reason why we started our sauna lineup on the traditional. We love infrared as well, but we wanted traditional from a time perspective. It's a quick. All you need is 15 minutes and you're there where some, maybe some lower heat ones, you're going to have to go a little longer. So from the core of the products, like it is, how do we feel? Great. How do we have a great outcome in the most efficient time perspective? So that's, that is something we try and bring into all the products that we, that we launch.
- [27:17]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [27:18]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
And it's clear, like everything that you guys have created that I own is easy. It's simple. I mean, even the sauna, right. Like, you can set it on a schedule so that when you're ready to get in there it is at the temperature you desire. And then you can just literally spend 15 minutes in it, 20 minutes in it, 30 minutes, whatever you decide. But I mean, the traditional sauna, ours goes up to 2:30 or something, which I know we're not supposed to turn it that high and we don't. But I mean, you can.
- [27:43]
Ryan Deiss
The traditional, you can, you can take it there.
- [27:45]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
It just, it's just a little hard on the.
- [27:47]
Ryan Deiss
Do you go there?
- [27:49]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
We'd usually do 207 to 213 somewhere.
- [27:51]
Ryan Deiss
In that one year. So we, we have obviously all the data. What, what do you think the average temp is of our traditional sauna that.
- [28:00]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
People run it at?
- [28:00]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah.
- [28:01]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
180 to 195.
- [28:04]
Ryan Deiss
It's like 170.
- [28:05]
Guest or Co-host
Wow.
- [28:06]
Ryan Deiss
Which we were surprised with. We thought it would be. So you're. What I'm getting at is you're on the super high end, the 200. It's like, it's a small portion that go above 200.
- [28:17]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
I'm like, if I'm going to sweat, I want to sweat. And like, if I'm going to sweat and I'm doing this to sweat, how.
- [28:22]
Ryan Deiss
Do I stay in?
- [28:24]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
It depends on the day. So, like, I would say at a minimum, it's 11 minutes, but there's a lot of days where it's 20, where it's like. And what I've done is I'm a big believer in habit stacking. So, like, when I'm in the sauna, I'm not just sitting in the sauna. I'm journaling in the sauna. I'm listening to a podcast in the sauna, I'm listening to an audible book. I'm meditating. Like, I'm always trying to habit stack because I'm like you. I believe, like, time is the only thing that I can't make more of. I can manufactured in a bit by hiring people and leveraging things. So I have a little bit more. But I have the same 24 hours in a day that you have that anybody has. So I'm like, how can I use my time more efficiently than anybody else? So I'm a big habit stacker. So if I, you know, if I'm in there and I'm listening to a good book or a good podcast or like, deep in my journal, I mean, it could go 25, 27 minutes. I haven't gone over 30 minutes at that temp. At that temp. But I mean, like, if you're in.
- [29:15]
Ryan Deiss
Still impressive 25 in there.
- [29:17]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
If you're in there for 15 to 17 at that temp. And then I love throwing the water on the rocks, too, which I learned the hard way. You shouldn't throw directly on the rocks because then that causes the heating element, that hume mace to melt and start on fire, which happened one night. But, I mean, I like. I like to suffer, but I've always liked to suffer. I mean, I was a wrestler growing up, so we used to sit in saunas in sweatsuits, so we sweated more. So, like, it's. It's easier for me.
- [29:41]
Ryan Deiss
So it's deep in you.
- [29:42]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
It's deep in you. Yeah, it's deep in me. But I, I just. I mean, there's days where I walk out of it. I'm like, lightheaded right you gotta pause for a second, be like, okay, I gotta, you know, recollect myself. But my morning routine, every single day includes the sauna and the cold plunge. And I have yet to feel like shit after getting out of the sauna and the cold plunge.
- [30:04]
Ryan Deiss
See, I'm assuming you have it scheduled. It's heated up at your point that you, when you wake up.
- [30:08]
Guest or Co-host
Yep.
- [30:09]
Ryan Deiss
Do you cold first? Do you sauna? What?
- [30:11]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
I always cold first, but there are some days where I'll finish on cold. So I'll go cold, hot, cold. If I had, if I made the choice to create more time in my morning for this, like, I'm already getting up at 3:45, 3:47. Like, I'm, I'm an early guy. If I choose to make more time, then I would love to do cold, hot, cold, hot, and then finish again on cold. I just, like, I love finishing on cold. But, like, if I feel like I'm getting sick or something, I'll do four rounds of it. And I swear, like, I can beat any illness that comes onto me by just freezing it out of me and then sweating it out of me. But I, I usually finish on in the sauna right now, but there's a lot of times I'll go cold, then hot, and then finish on cold.
- [30:59]
Ryan Deiss
But you're contrasting every day, every day, when.
- [31:01]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah, every day, every day. And I mean, we were literally just talking about this. Like, I haven't been able to do it for a couple of weeks and my body doesn't feel as good and I don't notice the benefits when I do it every single day. Like, it's just a part of the routine. It's like, okay, it's like making your bed cool, check the box, move on. And I haven't been able to do it for a couple weeks and I feel like I can actually feel in my body, like, the inflammation, the soreness, I can feel the fogginess in the morning. Whereas when I do the cold and I do the hot, like, I'm sharp, I'm crisp, I'm fired up, I'm ready for the day and I can feel that, like, fogginess pop in. So it's like, it's not just this, like, trend. It's not just this fat. Like, there is actual evidence that this is better for you and this helps you. And I love the evidence. I'll support it. But when I can actually feel the evidence in my own body, like, that's the slap in the face I need. That's like, this is an everyday non negotiable for me.
- [31:52]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah, I mean the, the we get that a lot. Like is this a fad? Is this like, like it might be a fad that someone's sharing it on social every day? Like that it's a new thing. It's interesting but like the impact of cold water, like that is, I mean we, that is the amount of just data that we have, the testimonies that we see. The, the impact if someone needs their plunge fixed and it's down and the impact that it has on that person and what we like it's medicine. Like it's like dude, I don't have my medicine right now. You just, you just kind of mentioned it like that's huge. We have, I mean we see our app users like we look at our daily active users to our monthly active users like for our like where we live in like connective fitness space. Like the plunge use is extremely high. It's higher than what you're going to see on peloton users or all these other modalities where it's just like once they get. It's like I love it like this is like people don't not use their plunge. And so that's like, you know, something we want to, we want to go deeper into of like how do we bring what you're talking about to life? Like what's going on there? Like how do we tell that story from a research perspective.
- [33:10]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [33:11]
Ryan Deiss
From a you saying I just feel more clear. What is that?
- [33:14]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [33:15]
Ryan Deiss
Like what's the actual mechanism that's going on in the body?
- [33:17]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [33:18]
Ryan Deiss
That we can share that with more people that you know, you're an take action guy but we're kind of in. You're an early adopter probably in a lot of things that you do.
- [33:27]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [33:28]
Ryan Deiss
We're going to a new consumer now in this category where it's like how do we tell people that maybe wouldn't have just ran into running like like they're not a biohacker early adopter.
- [33:38]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [33:39]
Ryan Deiss
They're so we need to tell better stories. We need to bring more research to the place to you know, convince and get people to understand like why this is beneficial to you. Like you what is important to your life. So that's something we're focusing on right now.
- [33:54]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. One of my favorite things to do is when we have guests come over, I like try to talk them all into getting into the plunge. So like my father in law has gotten into the plunge. His really good friends gotten into the plunge. Our Kids have gotten into the plunge. My friends have gotten into the plunge. Like it's just become like a part of our life. And every single person that does it for the first time screams like a fricking baby that just fell off the changing table. And afterwards they like how I feel. Like really good. Like, dude, imagine having that every single day. Like that's what I get every single day. And it's just fun to watch people. I mean there's a lot of people that have come and tried it at my house that have then gone and bought the plunge because they're like, I felt really good. I know. Like, you think I just bought this because it looks good? Like, yeah, it looks nice, but I want to feel good.
- [34:41]
Ryan Deiss
I've been stacking a lot of like my meetings at the office. Like I'll have people come in to the people that are local or people that come in. It's like, we'll go do this on a plunge. And it's like first the conversation gets way better.
- [34:54]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [34:54]
Ryan Deiss
You know, we can go deeper a lot quicker. And it's like, I can we can we all just feel a lot better.
- [35:00]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [35:00]
Ryan Deiss
You know, we're more, we're more clear. So. Yeah. And getting people into that first plunge, there's no like introducing someone to that feeling is like, it's like when, if you were to get someone that hasn't worked out before and they like started training a bit.
- [35:14]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [35:14]
Ryan Deiss
And it was like. And they're like, wow, I. This is a new feeling. Cold is in that vein where it's like, it's a different modality, but it's still like, it's going to get you to feel that much better, that quicker. So it's, it's, it's special to be able to like, you know, guide someone or just be with someone through that kind of transformative moment.
- [35:34]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah, it's, it's very similar to like what you said about working out. Like if you talk somebody into running a half marathon and they're not runners, seeing them at the finish line is magical. So seeing somebody get outta the plunge is the same thing for me, I'm like, yeah, dude, it feels good, doesn't it? And like you sit there and like just breathe, relax, don't scream. And you get em to hit that minute 30 or that two 30 or whatever they set their goal at. And you know, some people are in and out in seven seconds. They're like, holy shit, that's not for me. But you know what I then tell them is what you've taught me, which is find a temperature that works for you. Like, there's some hardcore plungers out there. Like, I had the privilege of interviewing Peter at tia and I'm like, so talk to me about your plunge routines. Like, 39 degrees, hands under, up to my shoulders, 11 minutes. I'm like, dude, like, that's insane. That's not everybody.
- [36:21]
Ryan Deiss
In fact, I would say almost nobody.
- [36:23]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Nobody.
- [36:24]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah.
- [36:24]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
It's like, if 49 feels good, go 49. 47 feels good, go 47. Like, that's, that's one of the things that I really appreciate about how you guys show up in this space is you're not like, it has to be this temperature for this long under these conditions. It's like, use this for whatever way it serves you and however it helps you.
- [36:41]
Ryan Deiss
It. It's so unique. It's. It's in fact that there's no even. You are going to be different week in, week out. Yeah. So your protocol, you're going to need to change it.
- [36:54]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [36:55]
Ryan Deiss
Your hormones change, your immune system change. The stress level in your life changes. Sleep, changes your. Your routine. Like, there are all these factors that are going to play in how we react to the cold. How there is. And yeah, I mean, we, it's. We try and be very, you know, our, our big thing is 55, 55 degrees, two minutes to start. Like, just go there, like, figure it out and tap into your own body. There's cues that you want to listen to, where you want to. Heart rate is where your heart rate goes. Those are the, Those are the signals you get used to and you can start to understand, like, what is an optimal cold plunge for yourself. But it's interesting. You were talking about, like, bringing people over and it's like, we obviously just did 29020 and it's a movement in general. And I give a lot of credit to, like, CrossFit early on that did this and it's this, you know, type two suffering in community. And it's type two fun. They call. I call it type two suffering. It is suffering, but it's shared suffering in community. And that is something we've seen cold plunge communities take off around the country in these. We used to do a plunge club a lot more. That's. A lot of other people have taken that on really well, but it's coming together. You do this really hard thing, but you're in a group together and it's like the secret sauce. There's nothing that feels better. It's why CrossFit thrived when you know, people would go do it. Why 29020 is why did we hike up that stupid mountain? Well, you know, I did it with a bunch of other people to do something super hard that we were going to commit to and finish and feel incredible after or you know, in our mind. And yeah, so it's, I think there's, you know, so I think in general of like what else can be created around that concept.
- [38:41]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [38:41]
Ryan Deiss
Because I think that is a real secret sauce of, of just human psychology and human connection.
- [38:48]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Well, even if you look at your business like it's been you and Mike.
- [38:50]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah.
- [38:51]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
You know, so how has suffering in community, you know, whether it's type 2 suffering or fun, when you're building a business, like there has to be moments that you can look back on and say, hey, if I was by myself in this moment, I probably wouldn't have made it. Or he would probably be able to say the same. How have you lifted each other up.
- [39:08]
Ryan Deiss
100% that like the business isn't, I don't think the business is here without each of us being in it together. And you know, first, like without him, he was really the, you know, inventor of the, the product. He was the one that I would say pushed me to say, this can be a business. So without him, I'm not doing this. And then there are, you know, times that there are days that he's just beat down, weeks that he's beat and it's like, I'm good. You know, we can kind of, you know, get on my back, dude, we can go, we can push. And so that has been, you know, I know, like yc I think you have to have a co founder to go through that and I, I get that. I see that and I think there is strong data out there of where co founders go to where like solo founders go. Especially on your first like real scaled out business, you know, having that co founder. The key to it though, what I would say is that you have to be aligned from a values and like an outcome perspective and that can change. Like him and I have had, you know, we've had a lot of check ins. Where are you at? You like, where's your family? Like, there's a lot of external factors that play into what our wants and needs are. And, and so him and I had like very clear value and good communication prior. So we built a really strong friendship. So I think that was like critical to going through the fire together and then equally checking in like, what is, was it, what is it? That, you know, where are you at right now? What's your two year look like right now? Where are you three year? Where's your energy at right now? What's your focus? What are we doing that you don't love? What do we like? What's still on the bone here for you that you want to go work on? So those constantly have to check in. And so it takes like a level of communication and I don't. I think you can go obviously, you know, what's the phrase? You go fast, solo. Yeah, you can go far together. And as life has gone on, I have seen that. I have seen that in my personal relationships, you know, being in a long term relationship, creating a family, going through that where before I was, you know, dude that just wanted to be solo and travel and do my thing.
- [41:23]
Guest or Co-host
And.
- [41:23]
Ryan Deiss
There'S just more depth that I think obviously we can go together in.
- [41:28]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
What if I told you that the biggest breakthrough in your wealth, your health or your relationships doesn't come from grinding harder, but from finding the right community? Gobundance is a community of over 800 high performers, entrepreneurs and investors with a combined net worth of over $5.7 billion. But look, it's not just about the money. We're about building lives of abundance inside of gobundance. We hold each other to a higher standard. It's a brotherhood built around six core pillars that touch on every aspect of life. So what does that actually look like? Look at guys like Diego Corzo, who after joining gobundance, became financially free, built a large real estate portfolio, gave a tedx talk and even got invited to the White house. Or John Edwin, who doubled his passive income while also helping his son launch a business at the age of 15. Even Daniel Del Rio, who thought he was at gobundance for business growth but realized he needed to transform his health. Eight ironmans later, he's a completely different man. This tribe is built for men who've already found success but know there's another level for our families, our health, our purpose and our legacy. If you're ready for a tribe that challenges you to achieve a higher standard for yourself, visit gobundance.com tribe that's G O b u n d a n c E to apply today this episode is brought to you by Loletta Birnbaum, llc. Doing business justice. If you're a business owner, entrepreneur, real estate investor, or a combination of each, you know how critical it is to have trusted legal advisors on your team. Loletta Birnbaum has built a stellar reputation providing exceptional legal services that make a difference. As a national business law firm, Loletta Birnbaum provides a wide variety of of legal services including general corporate contract negotiations, mergers and acquisitions, succession planning, intellectual property, commercial litigation, shareholder disputes, real estate and employment. Whether you're navigating a complex business deal, resolving disputes or protecting your brand, their team delivers practical, results driven legal solutions tailored to your goals. For inquiries, GoBundance members should email Loletta Birnbaum at gobundanceuletta.com that's L A U L E T-T A dot com. You can also visit their website at www.lauleta.com to learn more about how they can do your business justice. This episode is brought to you by Apex Functional Health, the team behind Age defying health at GoBundance. If you're a high achieving entrepreneur, investor or leader, you know that your health is your greatest asset. But the truth is, traditional medicine isn't built for people like you. It treats symptoms, ignores root causes, and keeps you stuck in cycles of fatigue, stress and subpar performance. That's where Apex comes in. They do not do band aids. They engineer elite health transformations for men, women and children looking to optimize their health and be proactive instead of reactive. Apex uses root cause functional medicine, advanced lab testing and cutting edge biohacking tools to help you optimize energy, eliminate the root cause holding you back, and reverse early signs of aging so you can live, feel and perform at your best. Apex helps you take control of your health so you can lead with power, not burnout. Visit apex functionalhealth.com to schedule your free strategy. Call and see what's possible. When your body finally works for you, not against you, what's slowing your business down? Is it endless emails? Scheduling headaches? Repetitive tasks that steal your time? My Outdesk has your solution. Their experienced global virtual assistants handle the busy work so you can focus on strategy, growth and whatever matters to you most. From administrative support to marketing and customer service. They've got you covered at a fraction of the cost of hiring in house. Scale smarter, save bigger, get the support you need. Today at MyOutDesk I see in your story this pattern of like walking to the discomfort even through those conversations with your co founder. A lot of people don't have those hard conversations because it's uncomfortable. But you show up time and time again in your story and in your journey of like embracing the discomfort but also like walking to it. And there's a lot of beauty in that. And I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. But somebody's listening to this. Or I'm sitting here going, like, hey, I feel stuck. How did you start walking to the discomfort? How did you recognize that that was where the power was?
- [45:52]
Ryan Deiss
It's a weird for me to answer this because it's like, there's. I. I don't. I'll reflect on myself and be like, I'll sometimes avoid the discomfort. Like, I'm not some sage person there. And I do know there's truth in the discomfort. Like, there's like, we have a core value at our company. It's called find your edge. And the whole concept is like, if you're not on your edge, there's like, that's not where growth is. We know that. Like, if we're not uncomfortable, like, uncomfortable is actually an incredible signal. It's. It's. Wow, I'm somewhere I haven't been. I'm doing something I haven't done before. And if that's important to you in life, to grow and evolve and take on new experiences like that, you have to. I don't want to say get comfortable with that because that just. You don't get comfortable with discomfort, but you have to be open to that. You have to be like, so I. I want that life. I would say, like, that's why I go there. And I don't always do. I'll avoid it sometimes. I'll. I'll disconnect from it. I'll. And I do want a life that is evolving. I want to be. I want to look back two years ago and be like, man, I want to laugh at that person two years before. Like, I want to be like, holy shit. Like, what a. Like, that's such a good signal, but it doesn't get there without, you know, having the true. Like. Like being somewhat excited and having some third, like, some eye that's looking down. Be like, oh, dude, this is okay. Like, the discomfort is like, it's a good signal right now.
- [47:31]
Guest or Co-host
It's.
- [47:32]
Ryan Deiss
It's. It's good. Keep tracking towards that.
- [47:33]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:34]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
And then you ran a marathon. You did 29. 0. 29. Like, you. You just keep walking towards that discomfort of, like, what's on the other side of this? What's on the other side of this?
- [47:42]
Ryan Deiss
For me, it's like, if I actually really think about it, like, what has been. Sports was early in to, like, really pushing like, myself. But then, like, psychedelics became a pretty, like, pivotal part of my story. And, like, that working with those intentionally, like, really started to be like, wow, the discomfort is the truth. Like, that is where it all lives into being in the precipice of what I am avoiding. Like that. Like, what I'm avoiding is the thing, like, we all know it. We all like, whoever's lit. Like, we all. It's probably. It's going off in all our heads. We all have that thing right now. And so, like, psychedelics, I think, were the front and center thing of like, oh, if you're really going to go be about this life, like, that showed firsthand of, like, discomfort is where the wisdom is. It's also where, Right. Like all the cringy sayings, it's like, choice right on the other side of it. Like, there's no better feeling than going through it. And there's no better feeling than hiking that mountain and crossing that finish line. Like, you don't. You don't get that feeling without hiking the mountain.
- [48:49]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [48:49]
Ryan Deiss
You don't get a feel at post cold plunge without doing the cold plunge. Like, these things, it's like, this is timeless. Yeah. These are timeless takeaways that have just always been there.
- [49:04]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. One of my favorite sayings is the magic you're seeking lies on the other side of the work you're unwilling to do. And I found in my life time and time again that whatever I'm looking for is often on the other side of that one thing I'm avoiding. Whether it's the hard conversation with an employee, whether it's the hard conversation with my wife, whether it's hiking. 29. 02, like, whatever I'm avoiding on the other side of that is like, the thing I was looking for. Like, I was reflecting on the flight home from 29 oh 29, first and foremost about how I've done it twice now. And the only other Everest I'm going to do is the real Everest. Like, I've. That's enough. I'm good for hiking mountains. But the other thing I was reflecting on is, like, I've been working a lot right now on, like, my personal brand, my story, my book. Like, what does this all look like? And I've struggled with it for, like, nine months. Like, I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And as I was reflecting on it, like, it hit me on the plane, what my story is. It hit me on the plane what my book is. It hit me on the plane, who I want to speak to, how I want to talk. And I then, like, reflected on. I don't think I get to that point without having gone through that hike for 36 hours. I don't think I get to that point without having felt the pain in my body that we felt for those 36 hours, or the lack of sleep or the lack of food or the lack of water. Like, that magic I was looking in, I was looking for was on the other side of that work that I didn't really want to do. Like, I didn't want to do 29, 29 this year. Like, my wife wanted to do it. I said, okay, I'll do it if you do it. It was her birthday, so I had to do it. But I was like, I already done this. Like, what. What else can be true? And I was just slapped in the face by reality of, like, that was where the magic was. It was on that other side of what I was trying to avoid.
- [50:38]
Ryan Deiss
It's. Yeah. I mean, that resilience building. It's crazy when you get out there on that mountain of like, it's a lot of time you go, you know, what is capable in the body, in the mind? And then like, like you said, like, the peace of mind of completing. Like, what gets to open up after that.
- [50:59]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [50:59]
Ryan Deiss
Like, you're in, you're on the plane, you're, like, satisfied. You're like, I just did this thing.
- [51:03]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [51:04]
Ryan Deiss
Obviously you're probably on to the next kind of guy. Like, but there is a window where you kind of like, like clarity shows up.
- [51:12]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [51:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
It's like, if I just hiked a Mountain for 36 hours that totaled the elevation of Mount Everest, what else can I do? Like, if you would have told me that five years ago, you're going to hike this mountain for 36 hours and you're going to reach the summit of Mount Everest. In theory, like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I have no desire to do that. So then it just makes my mind go, like, what am I truly capable of? But the thing I've had to wrestle with or learned early on is this whole concept around ego. And I've found in my experience talking to many successful people like yourself, people have built multimillion dollar businesses, huge empires, crazy lives. They've all gone through this death of the ego experience. Have you gone through the death of the ego? And when. When was it for you?
- [51:54]
Ryan Deiss
I mean, I've had like psychedelic experience where it's like this, but like the ego, or at least my experience with it, I'll speak. Like, for me, the. The ego is like this thing. It's so Helpful, you know, it. It creates, it makes life doable. Without it, like, I don't think this. I don't. Like, humans don't exist, obviously. It's a core feature to us. It's also a lens that we wear. That is a lens. It's like any glasses, you take them off and it's just glasses that you're wearing and we wear them. This is my interpretation of it. But, you know, I've had. I had one very deep experience that was like the most clarity I've had around an ego. It wasn't like an ego death of like, I'm dying. It was not to get into sharing my experience, but there was like a very clear click when it came back and I, I. Oh. Like, was in whatever the oneness of it all, truly, this place. I didn't exist. You didn't exist. It was just. It was. It is. Anyways, I came back and it clicked and it was like, Ryan's back. Like. And it was like everything came back in Ryan's back. Oh, that's a TV on the wall there. This is a rug, like, and that, like that separation, that kind of like. Like having things individualized, that was like my first time into, like really feeling it and grasping it. Yeah. I mean, I think self identity is like critical and core to the human experience. So it's definitely not like bastardized to me of like, you know, like when people say I have such a big ego, that doesn't like, I'm not. That's just more of like, oh, you're a narcissist or you're like, whatever. Like, there's other dynamics there.
- [53:53]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [53:53]
Ryan Deiss
But like a big ego, I think, can be such a healthy thing if you know that, like, it's, It's a lens. It's not like really. It's probably not even truth.
- [54:04]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [54:05]
Ryan Deiss
It's. It's just use it as a tool.
- [54:06]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
That's right.
- [54:07]
Ryan Deiss
That grows with you. But like, it could be. It's really tricky too. It's. It's a. It's a slippery one.
- [54:12]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [54:12]
Ryan Deiss
And so like, that, that has been my. To where I'm at today. Kind of my understanding of how have.
- [54:18]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
You balanced like the beliefs or the, the negative self talk that you've had to battle in building business, going through life, doing all that stuff, like what beliefs about yourself had that you thought were true, weren't true that you had to let go of?
- [54:36]
Ryan Deiss
Well, there was. I mean, I don't know if this is exactly your question, but when we started plunge, like we were talking beforehand. I don't like I have like a very uncomfortable place around building stuff. Like my dad wasn't the super handiest guy. Like it's deep in me. Like I am viscerally uncomfortable. Like I have whatever wounds and all sorts of stuff around it. So I was, you know, I starting plunge and had had some level of success before it, but now I'm in a garage and I'm cutting PVC pipe and I'm building these products with Mike and I'm kind of his assistant, he's more of the guy building it and I had to. And I remember just being so like uncomfortable and so like what the fuck are you doing man? Like, dude, you have another company over here and you're sitting here like gluing this piece for him and you keep messing up and he's getting upset with you. And it was like I remember I cried one day to him. I was just like, dude, I can't do that. Like I feel so ashamed, I feel so incapable. Like what am I doing? Like why am I in this business? You know? And we were six weeks out from hiring our first person and I'm on the road meeting part. Like now my skills can start to shine. But I had to go through this. That and so yeah, I think it's, it's like that was something. I don't know if I had to let go of it, but I had to go through it. Like it's part of I think just business building. Like there are skills that you might not be great at, but if you're going to be a founder and you're going to be the first, like that's what creates the magic of a founder, is you are a momentum builder. Like this thing didn't exist. Like no one's going to do it for you. You have to do every piece to this right now. And that's, that's the responsibility, that's the accountability and that's the magic. You get the outsized return on the other side. You get to be the founder, you get to be this. But you also have to do all these things that are not your skill set. And ideally you can get out of it and grow. So you know, that was like one to just trust. Like okay, you're doing, you believe in this. Like you're going to figure this out. Maybe you're not going to be the greatest builder and maybe you're never actually be a good builder but like you got to do this right now.
- [56:54]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
You can do it if you have to do it.
- [56:55]
Ryan Deiss
Exactly.
- [56:56]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
You can suffer through it. You can persevere through it. You can find a way to get it done, even if you aren't a builder in that.
- [57:01]
Ryan Deiss
In that my. And I did this with, like, it's some irrational belief. I think they're both critical. You have to have some irrational. Like, they're both. It's a paradox, and all truths are in paradox. But some irrational view of yourself that, like, if they can do it, I can do it. And some equally highly humble ways that you are. You can be ruthless with yourself. Critical, kick yourself down. Like, you have to hold both true. Because you can't go here all the time. Like, if they did it, I could do it. I can go be that. Like. And no respect for how they got there and no reflection into how you're going to have to. What you're going to have to sacrifice what you're going to have to learn to get there. And you can't just stay and be small all the time and talk shit to yourself. Like, you have to go back and forth and it's these dueling kind of sides. And so I think, you know, when I started the float tank again, I. Capital floats. I wanted to. I didn't know how to build a float tank. I just assumed if someone started a float, if someone. Oh, I could. If I know I didn't have any money, I was like, if. Worst case, I'll build one. Again, irrational. I don't know how to build one. I don't know. And it worked out. But, like, I don't know. There's like this. This part of, I think being, like, highly irrational, that you have to. To be able to go create anything, that's. That's a value.
- [58:25]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [58:25]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
That's why. I mean, I learned early in my journey, a mentor taught me, someone's gonna do it. Why not you? And, like, so I just started saying that over my head, like, why not me? Why not me? And then, like, you kind of fast forward to the life I'm living today in the ranch. And that's what drives me to buy a giraffe. That's what drives me to buy the zebras. That's what drives me to do all those things is like 99.9% of the world is like, you can't. You shouldn't. Here's all the negatives. And I'm like, but somebody's going to, so why not me? So, like, literally, I drew a line in the sand with my wife the other night. I'm like, all right, you have a Choice. It's either we buy an elephant or we buy a giraffe. Which one do you want? She's like, neither. I'm like, that's not the choice. Like the choice is one or the other. And she's like, why do you want these things? I'm like, because it just shows me, like, I'm capable of doing whatever I could possibly dream of or desire if I'm willing to take the actions towards it. And most people aren't willing to take the actions. They would rather just drive in the car past the zebra ranch because they want to look at the zebras, then ask themselves, who do I need to become such that those zebras are on my ranch or at my place? And like, that's what you've done with the business.
- [59:30]
Ryan Deiss
Well, it's also, you have clarity into like what you want to go after. I think that's like a big piece that I think a lot of people get. You know, I'll be in moments like this as well where it's like, I don't have clarity of what to go do. It's. I think a lot of people know what they don't want.
- [59:45]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [59:45]
Ryan Deiss
And that's like, everyone can know what we don't want. The real skill is what do I want?
- [59:51]
Guest or Co-host
Yep.
- [59:52]
Ryan Deiss
I, you know, I want exotic animals.
- [59:53]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [59:54]
Ryan Deiss
I want an elephant or a giraffe and that's what I want.
- [59:57]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [59:57]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Like, well, and the reason why is so interesting. Like, a lot of people think like, oh, I want these things from like an ego perspective. But for me, the reason I want these animals is first and foremost so our friends and our family can enjoy them. Like there's just something magical, like watching people get out of the plunge for the first time. Watching people bottle feed our baby zebras when they were babies, like, it was just magic. Like, I have pictures that I'll look at when I'm feeling frustrated or down of my father in law, my son and my daughter holding bottles, feeding these baby zebras. And all of their faces at different ages in life are lit up like a Christmas tree. But for me, like, the real reason why every day I come here and work, every day I drive up and as I drive past the pasture, I see two zebras looking at me and I'm like, if you can own a zebra, what else is possible? Like, what else could be true? And it just like reminds me of like even the unthinkable, even like the unimaginable is true. If you put your mind, body, spirit, energy into it and say I'm gonna find the way or make the way. So for me, it's all about just the reminder of, like, whatever you dream of can come true if you're willing to sacrifice certain things, you're willing to pursue things, and you're not willing to give up.
- [61:07]
Ryan Deiss
Yeah, I mean, that's the magic of, like. It's like a. It's just. I mean, what I'm taking from that is just getting me of, like, man, you got. You got one shot at this whole thing. Say, dude, like, you know, we sit here, I got. I got 40 to 50, maybe 64 years. If I'm, like, doing this really, really well, that's 40 to 60 more summers. That's 40 to 60, you know, more Christmases with my, like. So it's like, what else can I do? How do I maximize? Where do I amplify? And that. That's cool. The zebra's kind of getting you to go even bigger.
- [61:44]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. And I. I learned that when I was 22. I lost one of my best friends. And so, like, here we are. We're 22 years old. He was 25. It's like, oh, we're untouchable. We've got the whole world in front of us. We got our whole lives died of a blood clot from a torn acl. So then you kind of are reminded, like, if I'm lucky, I got 40 more summers. But if I'm unlucky, you know, God forbid, today might be my last day. And so what am I going to do today? That if it was my last day, my friends, my family, myself would be like, holy shit. Like, that was a good life. Like, he really lived it. And so, like, that's how I try to live, because I think you're right, like, from my knowledge, my awareness, we only get one shot. And even though 30 years, 50 years, 80 years, sounds like a long time, man, you blink and it's gone.
- [62:30]
Ryan Deiss
I mean, I'm about to turn 40 in January, and it's like, that number, it signifies something to me. It's like, oh, you're on the. Like, I'm now further away from my high school graduation than my birth was. These numbers start to be like, you're not. Like, this is. This is temporary. Yeah, this life will end. My parents are getting older. Like, they're, you know, have. If things go Well, I got 10 to 15 more, you know, summers with them.
- [63:03]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [63:05]
Ryan Deiss
So anyways, it's. It's like, really trying to times, I think, the ultimate. Like. Yeah. It creates humility and it creates, like, perspective very quickly.
- [63:16]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah. And it can get you to take action. Like, if you use it as a tool, you can recognize, like, our time is limited. So, like, why put that thing off for tomorrow? Why not do that thing? Why not have that hard conversation? Like, let's just lean into it and do it.
- [63:28]
Guest or Co-host
Yeah.
- [63:29]
Ryan Deiss
100%.
- [63:29]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
What are you working through right now that feels heavy or uncomfortable? Where are you growing the most today?
- [63:38]
Ryan Deiss
I think. I mean, I'm. The natural answer is I'm six weeks out from being a father. There's. Some days it's blissful thinking, some days it's like, wow, like, holy shit, this is all going to change.
- [64:00]
Guest or Co-host
Right?
- [64:06]
Ryan Deiss
It's all going to change pretty quick. So that's like, thinking, like, the other thing that's showing up there is like, I've always. I didn't know if I'd always want to be a father, but, like, probably in the back of my mind, I figured I would. But it was always like, if you're gonna be a father, my. My traits, my flaws, my, like the. My shortcomings, like, those will all get figured out by the time I'm a dad.
- [64:30]
Guest or Co-host
Right.
- [64:31]
Ryan Deiss
And it's like, now I'm a dad. And these things that I do that are. It's like they're here, you know, and this is front and center. And it's very. It's been confronting. So, you know, that's a piece, I think, on the business front. Like, we're. We've definitely, like, there's been evolutions of what we're doing in the business, really trying to figure out, like, what are. You know, there's just a constant evolution. We went from, like, you know, this new kid on the block, new company. I'm going from, like a founder to, like, now I'm a CEO, and I think I'm really still evolving there into, like, what goes into that. What. Sometimes I just want to go back to being a founder and work on. Kind of work on the new thing and get things. Get momentum going. And sometimes my team needs a CEO. So those are. Those are areas that I'm working through right now. I think I. I have worked. I have had consistently, like, a coach in the past, and I have not had one recently. And I think that's, like, showing up for me more like into, like, oh, I need. That's some support that I need into. I think it's a good guardrail into this kind of, like, both sides that we talked about of, you know, ruthlessly critical to being irrational, like, working through both those areas. So that's kind of been on my forefront. I really wanted to dig in on like, the fitness side. So I hired like a coach there. Got these events on the calendar, so that's been going well. But I think on like, the personal side with a. With a coach is kind of a. Something I need to bring back into my life.
- [66:09]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Signed up for a hundred mile race in February. If you want.
- [66:11]
Ryan Deiss
You signed up.
- [66:12]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
If you want something else on the calendar.
- [66:15]
Ryan Deiss
I. I have a. No, I.
- [66:18]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
You're a smart man.
- [66:19]
Ryan Deiss
I think I'm. I think we're going to do a high rocks early. Jan Hunter. Where is the Hunter Miler?
- [66:26]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Houston. In Jan. February. Feb. 7, something like that.
- [66:30]
Ryan Deiss
Is it paved or is it.
- [66:33]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
No, it's in the woods.
- [66:34]
Ryan Deiss
In the woods, yeah.
- [66:35]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
But it's generally a flat course.
- [66:36]
Ryan Deiss
Okay.
- [66:37]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Is what I've been told. But you know, I. I recognize when people say, like, oh, I ran 100 miles. Most people don't really run 100 miles like they completed 100 miles, but it's a lot of walk, run, walk, run, walk, run. So I have this whole theory that I'm gonna run a hundred mile race, which I know I won't run the whole time, and I'm gonna do it all without training more than 10 miles at any given time. So I'm not gonna go crazy on the training because I want to get to the suffer point as quickly as I can and I want to sit in that suffer point for as long as I possibly can. And so I'm like, I will not run more than 10 miles during my entire training.
- [67:12]
Guest or Co-host
So you.
- [67:12]
Ryan Deiss
You are trying to curate a true pain cave.
- [67:17]
Guest or Co-host
Yep.
- [67:18]
Ryan Deiss
That you are.
- [67:19]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Have to sit in.
- [67:20]
Ryan Deiss
Have to sit in.
- [67:21]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Well, keep walking.
- [67:22]
Ryan Deiss
But you're capable of getting through it. You'll be fit enough to get through it. You're equally at.
- [67:28]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah, yeah. I'm like, it's going to suffer no matter what. No matter how much I train. Mile 67 is going to suck. So why don't I just train it all? So mile 23 sucks and I can suck for a lot longer. Like, I'll just get comfortable with the pain because at the end of the day, I've experienced the more comfort we can find in that discomfort, the more possibilities that are created. So I just want to get there as quickly as I can and sit there as long as I can.
- [67:51]
Ryan Deiss
How do you have to finish in a certain time?
- [67:53]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
I think it's 32 hours. Plenty of time.
- [67:55]
Ryan Deiss
Okay.
- [67:56]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
I think I could, like, I think it's like four miles an hour or something like that. Like, I'll be fine.
- [68:00]
Guest or Co-host
I'll be fine.
- [68:02]
Ryan Deiss
I look forward to following along on that.
- [68:05]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
I mean, look, I. I'm. I'm incredibly grateful for this conversation. I've really enjoyed getting to know you. You know, selfishly, I more enjoyed the products you guys have created. The plunge, the sauna. Like, I mean, I really can't articulate how much they've changed my life. I've been on a huge fitness journey, and I think one of the things that I tell everybody that I talk to is when I started plunging, the weight started falling off of me. And I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's untrue. The data will tell you it's true. But I wouldn't be the man I am today without the products you guys created. It's helped me. It's helped my wife. She did both of them through her entire pregnancies. Yes. Modified temps, but did them both. It's a part of our everyday routine, and it's just truly an honor to be able to sit down with the person that created the products that have made such an impact on our lives and have a cool conversation.
- [68:51]
Ryan Deiss
Dude, thanks for sharing that.
- [68:52]
Host (possibly a podcaster or interviewer)
Yeah, thank you, man.