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The Matt King Show
034: Wyatt Graves | What If the Life You’re Chasing Is Quietly Destroying You?
01:00:09
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- [00:00]
A
He's built a business empire literally from the ground up, led teams that have sold over $100 million in real estate, owned award winning childcare centers, scaled real estate firms, and even coached elite performers inside of leadership masterminds.
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B
I'm very goal oriented and I have massive goals. I want to leave a great, great legacy of impact on people that are the most vulnerable and in. In the world. Right. I'd like to teach possibility and inspire action so that they can actually live with courage to go chase their own dreams. And I want to do that in a massive way. And that's not an easy feat. And so to finance that, if you will, I need to have a big business.
- [00:46]
A
But none of that is the reason you need to listen to this conversation. Because the hardest thing Wyatt's ever built was the life he actually wanted to live.
- [00:54]
B
The definition that I put on authentic manhood is a man that lives by principles, not emotions.
- [01:02]
A
This episode is about legacy. It's about fatherhood. It's about the kind of leadership that starts where most people stop at home.
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B
We always go back to, what are our values? What are our values? What's most important to us? And let's make decisions in alignment with those values.
- [01:21]
A
This is Wyatt Graves. Was your dad a leader? Was your, like, where did you learn to lead from?
- [01:30]
B
Neither of them were a leader. And so I think that that's where neither, neither. They. Both. Both of my parents were present in terms of the logistical things of our house. But mom did most of the raising. Dad worked a lot, and then whenever he would come home, he would play in his shop and do race cars or go do side hustles. So he really wasn't around from an emotional standpoint, influential standpoint. Mom was, but they always had a rocky relationship too. And so I felt that tension. And I think my drive to take charge was born from that scenario, if you will.
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A
Right.
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B
Like, understanding that I was missing something and my coping mechanism was to be in control was to take charge. And so that's how it happened.
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A
So as you go to raise your own kids, right. I think a lot of people think, I want to make sure my kids have the drive, have the ambition. And one of the things we all say is like, well, maybe they need to experience some hardship. Maybe they need to see their rocky relationships. Maybe they need to learn how to lead. Should I start smoking inside, whatever that looks like? How do you actually develop your kids to be leaders without showing them what a rocky relationship has to be? Or without smoking in the house?
- [02:49]
B
We are super Intentional about all the things that we talk about, you know, whether it's work related issues that we're having with an employee, with a deal, a budget, whatever it might be, we talk about those things in the open in front of our kids. And we will teach our kids the basis from which we are having those conversations. Right? The basis from which we're making decisions. We're very vocal about it. We're very goal driven. There's a big white sticky note on my refrigerator right now with this week's theme for each kid. The activities that they have to do in order to achieve, achieve that result. And we're just vocal. I mean, we talk about the, you know, we were sharing about the sports situation that's going on in my house right now. We use those examples to really talk and teach leadership.
- [03:38]
A
So when you have the goal on the refrigerator, the theme with everything they have to do, is there reward on the backside or is it just this is the expectation of our family?
- [03:48]
B
We are not a reward driven family. In fact, it's funny you say that because my youngest child, she came home on Monday last week and she started to give herself check marks. And I saw that she was after the check marks. I'm like, we're really not doing check marks. Like, you can put them if you want them, but there is no goal for the check marks. This is to get you what you want for your life. And I've really always been that kind of leader. You know, I guess you could take my experience in early childhood education.
- [04:25]
A
And.
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B
Say that that's where I got this philosophy from, right? Which is, hey, you figure out what you want and you go make your own decisions. And you're going to either pay the price, suffer the consequences, I will help guide you to make those decisions. But if you want to eat the junk food, you got to pay the price for that. If you don't want to eat the junk food, you'll get to reap the rewards. And we've been that kind of family. Obviously there's guidelines, right? But everything that we teach our kids is based on what do they want their future self to become and helping them make decisions that lead to that result.
- [05:04]
A
Do you teach? Do you treat your team the same way? Or do you lead your team differently than you lead your family?
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B
I do not treat my team the same way.
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A
Why not?
- [05:16]
B
I've never thought about it. Maybe that's where my control, my controlling nature really manifests itself, is at work. I mean, here's the deal. I teach my team or treat My team the same way relative to their personal goals and find alignment with the job that they have and how much it helps them get where they want to go personally. So if they want to come in and use this job as an opportunity to advance their personal mission, then I give them the opportunity. Opportunity to do that. But for the actual job, I'm a very model driven person and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. So what's the model? What's the proven way of doing something at a certain rate to get a certain outcome? That's what I want us to do, and that's the expectation that you're going to be held to. And if you win, then how does that win parlay into your personal world? We have to know that so that you can win at home too.
- [06:15]
A
Yeah. It's just interesting because it sounds like on one hand you're telling your kids, go be your own human. You're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna make good decisions, you're gonna reap the benefits, you're gonna reap the rewards you choose. And then the other, it's kind of like with your team, you're like, go do things, but don't make mistakes because that could negatively impact the bottom line. Is it more of a control based thing, more of a results based thing, or is it more just you don't have the rights, who's in the right seat yet to relinquish control and let them run?
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B
Well, they can make mistakes. And we make mistakes a lot. And you can ask most of the people on my team, we live by the notion that it's better to be prolific than perfect. Like take action. And if you mess up, that's fine. Right. But let's not reinvent the wheel on something that's already been proven in terms of whether it's sales or marketing or. Or whatever that role is of that person. We're going to set the standard, and I expect the standard to be hit. Right. That's just a little different. I don't know, man. That's just a little different. At home with the kinds of decisions my kids are making versus the kinds of decisions that we're making as an employee or a partner in a business that we have.
- [07:28]
A
Yeah. What's interesting is the different way of leading, helping or hurting the business. I don't know the answer to that. But it'd be interesting to say, is that holding me back or is that helping me get to where I want to go faster, where the team wants to go faster? Because what I've found is, is we hit these ceilings in our life. We get around a certain group of people, we achieve a certain level of success, then we kind of plateau. Now we have a choice in that moment, do we go further or do we stop? Do we just settle for the status quo? And I think watching kids athletics is a great example of this. They get around the right team, they start to elevate, they become the best on the team. Then it's like this team's no longer challenging me. Do I have to go find a new team, but then that means I have to find new friends, or do I just kind of accept this and settle? And so for you and your life, as you've hit those plateaus, how have you broke through those different ceilings? Right, because you started off in the daycare business, still are in the daycare business, but now your world, your empire looks much bigger, much different. As you've hit those ceilings, how have you actually broken through them?
- [08:24]
B
Man, we are always growing. The one problem I don't have is a new idea or a new goal. We're always growing. Whether it was the first daycare that we ever bought, we did really good with it. And so we said, if one is good, let's do a second one. And then we did a second one and somebody approached us with the third and before long we had seven. And then that became a disaster to a large degree. And so, okay, let's shrink back down. And I think we went from seven to four. And then some things happened with the flood and this, that and the other. So we went back just to the one that we have today. I'm very goal oriented and I have massive goals. I want to leave great, great legacy of impact on people that are the most vulnerable in the world. Right. I'd like to teach possibility and inspire action so that they can actually live with courage to go chase their own dreams. And I want to do that in a massive way. And that's not an easy feat. And so to finance that, if you will, I need to have a big business. And so as I am dialed in on what that vision and those goals are, I'm constantly seeing ways to level up the performance, the results, the business divisions, if you will, in my own organization. And so naturally, that shows up with a Monday meeting when I say, hey, guys, we're adding this to the mix, right? Or we're going to double this goal in half the time. And so plateauing has never been a challenge for us.
- [10:01]
A
But as you found a plateau, right, like from A personal perspective, from a leadership perspective. Have you used coaches? Have you used AIs, mentors, peers? Like, how do you make sure that you're still growing and evolving, not just chasing another shiny object?
- [10:14]
B
You know, I think I might. Maybe it's a little luck with some decisions that I've made that sort of led me to an environment that's always feeding me. One of the one things I learned in college, and I say this often, I really only learned two things. I didn't want to go to college. I had a scholarship, so I made good on it just in case I needed a degree one day. But the two things I learned, one was how to write a paper, which was really how to communicate. And then two, it was this saying that I have lived by my entire life since hearing it. And that saying is that people don't know what they want. They only want what they know. And, like, I equate that to CDs and MP3 players and then the iPhone, right? Like, I never wanted a CD until I knew that CDs existed, and then I was fine. And then the MP3 players came out, and then I wanted that. Right. And so naturally, as I've been exposed to new options, I then get the choice on whether or not I desire that or not. And I think the luck that I'm telling you that I found is that I have found groups of people. I found gobundance, I found masterminds, I found coaches. And by being involved with those people and those highly driven individuals, a natural point of progression then is to be exposed to what else is out there. Oh, well, that person's doing it this way. That person got where he's at in half the time that I'm, you know, getting to where I'm going. There's more to this. And so with every conversation with these people, I'm exposed to new options, bigger ideas, better ways of going about achieving it. And so then I just bring that back to the. To the workplace. And that's how our vision and our strategy has evolved over time.
- [12:09]
A
So do you really think it's luck, or do you think we as society just label it luck? Because it's far easier to explain.
- [12:18]
B
Well, I guess we'd have to talk about what is luck.
- [12:20]
A
Yeah. What is your definition?
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B
I guess it's really serendipity, which maybe isn't luck. It's the attraction of ideas and opportunity from putting that kind of energy out there. Yeah, maybe it's not luck. Maybe it's serendipitous.
- [12:38]
A
Well, it's funny because when I was growing up, I played a bunch of sports, and my dad, we would always, like, we lose the game like, oh, they got lucky. Or we'd win a game like, oh, we got lucky. And my dad got sick of hearing us say that. So he's like, look, there is no such thing as luck. Luck is defined by preparation, meeting, opportunity. So you have to be prepared. When the opportunity then presents itself, then you can all of a sudden be lucky. And so one of the things that I've played with throughout my life is people ask me how I've gotten to where I've gotten, like, college dropout, Midwest kid. How are you doing? What you do? You do. And I always just say I got lucky because it's way easier to explain. They can label it then as like, oh, he's just the lucky one, you know, whatever. And then I don't have to have the conversation, but if I have to be 100 true to myself, I don't think there is such a thing as luck. Because you and I were talking earlier. You know, a lot of people will say like, oh, he got lucky, but the reality is he was in the game, he threw the pass, he took the chance, right? And so, yeah, you can say he got lucky, but in reality, he actually put himself in a position to achieve whatever he set out to achieve. So when you're talking about, you know, you got lucky, being around the right groups or the right coaches, the right mentors, the right peers, millions of people have seen all of those coaches, millions of people have seen all those books, millions of people have seen all those groups, but none of them have chosen it. And so now you're labeled the lucky one because mostly you had the courage to make the choice. And so, like, I just try to differentiate that in my mind because I think sometimes as hard driven individuals, we don't give ourself enough credit. So we're like, yeah, I just got lucky then. No, and the reality is you had, like, really big balls and you took a really big risk and you said, screw it, I'm gonna make an investment way bigger than I ever thought I would in myself. And now you're reaping the benefits of it. And, like, if we can stop and just appreciate ourselves in those moments, what else can become possible? Because at the end of the day, I like to lead with gratitude. And so, like, when I hear your story, I'm grateful to know you because you're a man that's taken risks on his vision, his ideas, in pursuit of the vision and dreams bad like that, to me, is somebody I want to be around. And I don't think of you as somebody that got lucky. I think of you as somebody that's put yourself in a position to reap the benefits and the rewards that the risks have allowed you to.
- [14:48]
B
Yeah, you nailed it. I mean, I think that's. That's 100 true. I don't take enough time, probably, to sit and reflect on the iterations of those decisions.
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A
I don't either, by the way.
- [15:01]
B
Yeah. It's just. I don't know. It reminded me, though. I've known that I was going to be an entrepreneur my whole life. I don't remember a memory without a goal of being an entrepreneur. And in high school, I knew that. And some way, somehow, I realized that I needed to be a public speaker if I was going to be a successful entrepreneur. I needed to be able to speak in front of people. So I ran for the class president's office.
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A
Did you win?
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B
I did.
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A
Nice. Okay.
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B
So that I could force myself to be as uncomfortable as possible.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And just start taking the reps. And so the first speaking. The first speaking engagement was at our ring ceremony when we were getting our class rings. I'll never forget. I wrote my speech, and I made the font really big on the paper. So, like, it was only about five words per page.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I'm in my truck. I'm sweating. It's not started yet. I'm trying to memorize and practice and all this. And then I realized it's never going to work. I printed the words too big on the paper. And so I got to the speech, and I screwed it up so bad, I forgot to introduce the principal. I think we forgot to say the Pledge of Allegiance. It was awful. But, I mean, that was courage. Right. I was scared to death to do that, but yet I knew that I needed to take the steps to do that. And that's just a small example. Right. With not a lot of. Not a lot of things at stake.
- [16:29]
A
Yeah.
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B
But I have a pattern of being courageous, and I think being courageous. I mean, the word courage is probably my favorite word. I think it's. It is. It's the first word, the first energy level above the line on David Hawkins map of consciousness. Right. Like, so you move above the line by stepping in a courage. And so, yeah, I've practiced a life of courage.
- [16:55]
A
So let me ask you a question. People listening to this are like, oh, it's just really easy for him. He just takes risks. He doesn't care he doesn't. He doesn't mind. What are you currently facing today that you have not yet have the courage to step into?
- [17:12]
B
That's a tough question, because I feel like I live with such extreme courage, I might be fearful that I'm living with too much courage. I think that I'm so hungry to figure out the next block so that I can eliminate it and go to the next step. Right. The next level of success. I'm willing to put it all on the line. I think probably something that maybe keeps me tethered is that the risk that I take today don't just affect me, but they affect my wife and my kids. And maybe I don't have the courage to take some of those risks because I don't have the courage to face the consequences that they might have to suffer.
- [18:02]
A
Correct.
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B
If I fail.
- [18:04]
A
Correct. Yeah. Which I think is a beautiful clarification. Right. A lot of people will hear that and say, oh, he doesn't have the courage to take big risks. But the reality is you have the courage to be unwilling to take those big risks today because your family, your wife, your children and their safety, their security mean far more to you than any potential upside on that risk. And I think what's important to note is you have to be willing to put it all on the line at all times, but you also have to be willing to pull it all off the line at all times if it puts your core values or your core people or your core family at risk. And what you found the way to do is actually differentiate that and say, how do I sleep with myself at night in the event this goes bad? If it's a flip, okay, cool, I can deal with it. If it's going to move my wife and kids out of our house, I'm probably not going to take that risk. And rather than beat yourself up about not being brave, you're just like, that's something I'm willing to accept. Because I recognize that part of courage is having the courage to not take risks when I don't. Don't have to.
- [19:06]
B
I like everything that you just said. And there's something that's triggered inside of me that. That makes me have a contrarian thought to that, which is if I believe that life happens in our favor.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Then perhaps I should take some of the risk that I'm not taking in faith that whatever would happen to my wife and kids if it forced us to move out of our house, that it would be in our favor as well. And even as I talk that out Loud. Right. The new word or the next little phrase of thoughts that come through. But you don't want to be reckless.
- [19:50]
A
Correct.
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B
And so. But man, there's a fine line between. Well, I'll just say this. My MO is to be as close to the line of recklessness as possible.
- [20:05]
A
Same.
- [20:07]
B
Which drives me in a big way.
- [20:08]
A
Yeah, I love being backed into a corner. I love redlining the car at all times. I think it's. It just brings me so much energy, brings me so much joy, and it's brought us such an amazing, beautiful life. But what I'm wrestling with today is at what point does faith become delusional? Because, like, just having a faith that it's all going to work out is a great way to talk, a great way to think. That's also a way that a lot of developers lost their ass in 2007, 2008. It's like it's gonna just keep going up and to the right. It's gonna go up and to the right, it's gonna go up and to the right. And the next thing you know, it doesn't. And then personal guarantees get called. Everything happens. So I think it's beautiful to trust that, you know, life is working in our favor and at the end of the day, we will be able to look back and connect the dots and it will all work out. And at the same time, how do I live with faith but not delusion?
- [20:59]
B
Yeah. I think that being aware of that dance is probably the best place to be. I don't know that there's a perfect answer that you just decide once and it's done forever. So I think awareness and asking myself this question of what's delusional, what's living in faith in a case by case basis, situational circumstances, with the. The push to just be as close to that line as possible.
- [21:28]
A
Yeah. And then also like bringing your family along. Right. I mean, your kids are of age now, where you're talking about these things, you're having conversations, your wife is involved, she's having conversations. And so if the whole team, the family unit is saying, we're gonna go right, and you're like, no, no, no, we're gonna go left. At some point, as a husband, as a father, as a leader, you have to decide, even if I think my way is right, do I give them enough rope to hang themselves? Or is my way actually ego? And they might be right and let's explore it. And so like now you're in a really interesting spot where I'm sure there's a lot of collaboration inside of your house to determine what that line truly looks like.
- [22:02]
B
Yeah, for sure. And especially as my oldest is in his senior year and we're looking at colleges. Right. Like, in my dream world, he would go to college in a city that has a great upside for economic growth and raising a family and give us the opportunity to broaden our horizon and maybe buy a second home, start some rental property, look at some businesses that are there. Right. And so what does that next season of life look like? Because certainly then I have my two other kids that I kind of want to follow in his footsteps, but then that doesn't really give them autonomy to make their own decisions. So just exploring what the next season of life looks like is definitely inviting the collaborational conversations with our family right now, which is a new season for us. We've not been here before.
- [22:52]
A
Yeah. And you. I mean, you'll be back two more times, but you won't be back after that. Right. And that's kind of every season of life. It feels so heavy and real in the moment, but then we look back and that season is gone. Now, the lessons and awareness learned from those seasons can absolutely help us in our life forever. But that exact experience of sending your son to college won't ever happen again. Like, that one is done, and it will be one and done, and then you move on. So how do you deal with that? Like when you are confronted with complicated, let's call it, sports issues, like you're dealing with now. Right. Your son goes from starting quarterback his junior year, all conference, huge school, you know, the man to no reason, no rhyme, no logic, the backup. What. What do you do as a dad? What do you do as a parent in that situation?
- [23:38]
B
Man, I learned probably 15 years ago that the, the. The definition that I put on authentic manhood is a man that lives by principles, not emotions. You could say principles or values. And so we always go back to what are our values? What are our values? What's most important to us? And let's make decisions in alignment with those values. We may feel one way, but that's not indicative of our values. And so just living a princ based life has come into this, come to help us, come to our rescue more ways than one. Whether it's my relationship with Janae and the things that we've walked through as entrepreneurs and being married, or the things that we've used to raise our kids, the things we've done that have guided the relationships with other people in our family, it always goes Back to what's our core values and what's most important to us, and let's make decisions that are in alignment with that.
- [24:43]
A
And when you're talking to your kid, you're going through this, right? Are you communicating to him like, hey, first let's go to our core values. Hey, let's go back to our core values. Or are you just intuitively leading through your core values? Like, are these conversations you're having very.
- [24:56]
B
Upfront, very direct, very explanatory, like, what are your core values? And look, let's face it, we don't have a creed in our house, although I have a desire to have one. You know, we talk about family constitutions. I love the idea of having that. But doing the work as a family to get that has felt heavy, especially because I am always intentional about the things that we do otherwise. So sometimes my family, like, needs a break for my intensity. So we don't have core values minimized to just three or four for each one of our kids or for our family. But in the heat of a moment or the conversation or circumstance, we're going to ask the question, what's most important? What is the value here that we want to live into and abide by? Let's call that to mind and then play the tape forward on how this decision plays out. If we go this way versus that way, and which way honors that value the most, and that'll be the path that we go. And we're very, very intentional. My wife might say that I use too many words in some of those circumstances because we're that intentional.
- [26:14]
A
And she thinks you use too many words just because you're making sure you're clear.
- [26:18]
B
Yeah. And she just wants to make the decision. She just wants to decide. We don't have to talk about why we're deciding. Let's just decide. Yeah.
- [26:24]
A
And you want to know the intention behind it? You want to know the why?
- [26:27]
B
Because I want to teach.
- [26:28]
A
You want to teach?
- [26:28]
B
I want to teach. I want to exp the why behind the what.
- [26:32]
A
How did you discover that that resonated so much with you? Like, where did you get that clarity for you in your life and your purpose and your mission?
- [26:40]
B
I've been on this mission my whole life. I've been on this mission my whole life. And I've been a learner and a student forever. The first book I ever read was in maybe 10th grade at a book fair. It was John C. Maxwell Becoming a person of influence. And then from that book I read something. Maybe it was a Blog or something back then from Tony Robbins. And it just lit a fire. It just resonated with me in a real way. And so I've been exposed to or put myself in these conferences, classes, masterminds, books, online courses, blogs, whatever it is. And I would tell you that two real big influences. One, being in childcare next year will make the 25th year that I've been a child care owner, believe it or not. And from the moment that I bought my first school, I asked myself the question, how would I know if I were doing a great job of being a child care provider? And that sent me down this path of early childhood growth and development and childhood psychology. Early childhood psychology, right. And then the other sort of arena was my faith. And growing up in the church and being a part of the Christian organization or the Christian faith denomination, learning scripture and learning those principles and looking back at the way that I was raised and how I felt as a kid versus the vision of who I wanted to become. I've always known that I wanted to be somebody someday and had an idea of what that person would look like as a husband, as a dad, as a business owner. And so with that clear vision, it kind of drove me to go learn and to seek other people that have been here, done this before me to figure out what it is that they did, and I'll just emulate it. And I think through those conversations, through those educational courses, I've learned child development psychology, scripture. Right. All those things. And I think that they've just sort of aligned where it feels good and it feels right to be value based and not emotionally based. And then I've just taken that ran with it. And even recently, as Baylor is 17 years old and we are parenting him, I had this realization that my identity as a dad with Baylor is rooted in him being much younger version than who he is right now.
- [29:20]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I put myself in the shoes of a 17 year old in the way I felt when I was 17, I can promise you, I felt like I knew it all. And what I realized in that is that forever I lived in faith that these principles and the way I was living my life would turn out and give me the family that I always dreamed of having. Yeah, we're far enough along to where I know for sure it did. And so the lesson learned is that all along the way, I probably didn't need to worry as much as I did.
- [30:01]
A
Yeah.
- [30:02]
B
Like the things that I've done have led to exactly where I wanted to be. And yet I could have went Back and done those same things with less worry. And so how do I take that lesson and pull it forward for the next 17 years? And that's just something that I think about often.
- [30:20]
A
So in that vein, the less worry thing really resonates because I think we were talking earlier. Jeff Bezos says it incredibly well. He says it's far easier to create the future than it is to predict it. A lot of us spend a lot of waking hours trying to predict the future. What's going to happen with interest rates? What about the weather? Is it going to rain for the baseball game or not rain for the baseball game? Like, we spend so much time, so much energy trying to predict what's going to happen. How do you know you finally made it? So you said your whole entire life you had this vision for what your life was going to look like. Business, husband, father. Are you there yet? How will you know when you arrive?
- [30:56]
B
That's a. Seems like such a controversial question. I don't know that if I gave either answer, people are gonna. I'm gonna have haters. Because my temptation is to say, I've made it. Yeah, right. And I have a friend that we were out one night and he said, you know, they finally made it. And so we joke and we rag him about it often. And I don't want to be ragged, but I think I've made it. Because, you know, the saying that's. The saying that's come into mind is to be committed to the process and unattached to the outcome. And I think that I approach so much of my life through faith and flexibility. And I'm just really unattached. And I think the reason that I say that I've made it is because I'm unattached. I can thrive. You know, if shit went south and I went broken, I'd still be happy. I wouldn't stay there. I would grind and I would work to overcome, but I. I would still be content. And it doesn't matter how much money I end up making, what my net worth becomes, it's not going to change anything about me. It may change what I give and how I give and where I focus my time, But I'm just content. And I have an inner peace that allows me to live in faith. And whatever happens, happens. There was a saying from the sky that I crossed paths with what is is, what will be, will be what is is. And I can find peace in that man. And so whatever comes our way, bring it on, and it's going to be okay.
- [32:43]
A
Well, what's beautiful about that, too, is like you said, it didn't matter which way you answer that question. People were going to hate it. But if they actually listen to the answer of that question, the answer is really the destination is the journey. You've recognized at some point in your life that you're already there because you're on the journey. And when you were growing up, you probably thought it was this destination. Right. It was, like, no doubt gonna be this beautiful beach chair with a umbrella, straw in your martini, or whatever drinks you drink on the beach. Right. But in reality, what you've discovered is the journey is all you are pursuing the entire time, and you're on the journey, so you've made it. When did that shift happen for you? Can you remember a point in your life where you realized that the destination wasn't really the destination, the journey was all you were chasing the entire time?
- [33:25]
B
Yeah, I think that it came after. You know, this is probably an unpopular answer, but I think it came after we actually achieved some of our materialistic successes. Right. When we had a decent car and we had a decent house and my kids got to go to the private school that I dreamed of sending them to. And even once that happened, it didn't happen. Right. So, like, we were living in the house, so to speak, but yet I hadn't fully moved in.
- [33:57]
A
Yeah.
- [33:58]
B
And so once I started realizing, like, right, like, we're here, my kids are healthy, we have great relationships with each other. Janae and I have been through some tough times, and we're still here. This is it. Like, we are here. There is not a destination. And really, if we think about my faith, Right. I think that life goes beyond this world. And so we're on, like, this continuum that goes on forever. And it's not just about what I accomplish in my 50 years on Earth or 75 or 150. It's not about that. And so that allows me to just embrace the day in and the day out. Yes, I'm very goal oriented, and I practice gratitude almost every single day and throughout the day with just where I've come from, what we have, the relationships, what Ben says, the gap in the gain. Right. So just practicing the gain. And we have so much to be thankful for. I think Ben even says, I used to be. I used to hate that I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet. You know, And I'm just really aware of the blessings that are in my life.
- [35:16]
A
Yeah, it's. It's truly incredible because I, like, you, have Always had big dreams, big aspirations, but I always thought it would be like this shining moment, right? Like the clouds would part, something would happen, it would be magnificent. And I'll never forget the first time I calculated my net worth and it was over a million dollars. I went to my wife, I went to Melissa. I'm like, oh my gosh, we're over a million dollars. And like, I thought there was going to be like confetti or streamers or a cake. Like, I thought there'd be something, right? She looks at me and she's like, is that good? I was like, I don't know. And then like the next day I woke up, I started to put my shoes on, I started to put my socks on. Like, life just kind of went on. And I realized, like, it's not really the destination that we think is what we're pursuing. I mean, we think we're pursuing this destination because it's going to give us all of these things. But once we start to get a little bit of it, like a little taste of it, we realize, like, the destination is never what we were really pursuing is the journey. So as you're on this journey, you're setting goals. You're a very goal oriented human. How do you deal with the feet? Because you don't hit all the goals you set, I'm sure. And if you do, you don't set hard enough goals, you miss a goal, what happens? How do you treat yourself personally? How do you treat your family? How do you treat your friends? How do you respond in the face of adversity?
- [36:23]
B
Yeah, we just double down. We double down. There is no giving up. I've been through the recession in 2008, which lingered in my world till 2012, the great flood of 2016 in my hometown that was not that long after we had recovered from the, from the recession. I've been knocked down. We've had lots of family challenges, medical challenges, My parents got divorced. I mean, I've been through the wringer. And the only thing that I can say about that, you know, looking back at that journey, is that every one of those made me a little more calloused to heartache and heartbreak and hard things and prepared me for the next defeat. Right. So I don't really see. Yes, there are emotional challenges that happen whenever the deal falls through or you think that you had a deal or an employee leaves or you get sued. I mean, emotionally for the day, that sucks. And there ain't but one way out of that, right? And it's to go through it. And I just believe that like a bulldozer. And I'm ready to put my boots on, tighten my laces, and get after it, man. And that's. That's how I faced all of this, and that's how I face it today.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah. I say all the time, the only difference between a rut and a grave is how long you choose to lay there.
- [37:46]
B
That's so good.
- [37:47]
A
And we're gonna all get kicked.
- [37:49]
B
Yeah.
- [37:49]
A
We're gonna all be down. I mean, you went from the recession to the flood to Covid. I mean, talk about the. The trifecta there. And that doesn't talk about anything personally. Right. It would have been very easy for you to quit, but that would have been in violation of. Violation of your principles, your beliefs, your values, who you stand for as a human. When you die, which we're all going to die, maybe it's 150. It's not going to be 50, hopefully, because you're. You're healthy, but it's. Maybe it's 150.
- [38:15]
B
I'm hoping for 150.
- [38:16]
A
150 is a good number. I. I honestly, I think, like, 95 is good. Like, at some point, there's this difference between health span and lifespan. Sure. And I don't want to, like, live 150 with no life.
- [38:28]
B
Same.
- [38:28]
A
Lifespan's important.
- [38:29]
B
Same.
- [38:30]
A
And actually, Peter Atia talks a lot about that of, like, should we really be chasing health span or lifespan? Like, which one's more important? So you live till 150, everybody's at your funeral. What do you want people to be saying when they're there? How will you know that you can look back and go, man, I did it. What words will you be hearing? What words will they be speaking?
- [38:50]
B
They're going to say, I am better off because Wyatt lived in all kinds of ways, whether it's their relationships, their physical health, their impact, their legacy. The ripple effect is what I'm after. Right. There's no doubt in my mind that I want to have affected as many people as possible in a direct, real way. And then they go out and affect as many people as possible. Right. So that we can have exponential impact across the world. They're going to celebrate my impact in a big way. And there's hopefully, there's a line around the block, right. That are standing there saying, man, I wouldn't be where I am if it wouldn't have been for his encouragement and his impact on my belief, with which I thought I could go out and achieve.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah, that's beautiful, the clarity you have around everything you do, right? You talked about how important that is to you. How do you get to that point of clarity? Are you using things like AI, are you using things like coaching and mentors? Or are you literally just sitting with your journal and continuing to debate your mind until you feel you have the clarity you need?
- [40:01]
B
It's all of it, and it's all the time. It's not a once in a week or once in a month kind of situation. It's all the time. I do have a journal and I have a binder. The binder is a much expanded version of all the things, but it's too big to pack around every day. So pack around my journal, which is a condensed version of this year, and that's where I make notes. And then probably at least twice, there's been some years that I've done it. Four times, I take a solo retreat to either a casino where there's a lot of activity, a lot of action, and a great pool with a view where I can like. Like work a long time, right? So people wake up early and go to bed late, or the beach. And I'll go by myself. And it feels so weird, it feels so unusual. Nobody can usually understand why I'm doing it. But I will go and I will tape the sticky notes all across the walls in my hotel room or the condo. I'll bring all of my journals, all of my notes, I'll bring books, and I'll just go to town for two or three days and I'll sit and I'll look and I'll dream. And I've got a little table, right, that says, in 30 years, how old are my kids going to be? How long will Janae and I have been married? How old will I be? Will I be a grandfather? How old will my grandkids be? Where might those kids live? How often will I see them? How will I get there? Will I have a house there? Will I drive? Will I need to fly private? What does that life look like? And I am constantly iterating on those visions and reverse engineering to my plan, and that's continual. If I read a book and something's triggered, I've got a little app in my phone where I write that down, right? Or I'll text myself and save that until I go to the next goal setting retreat by myself. And all of that started in a very intentional way about eight or nine years ago when somebody asked me the question, fast forward 20 years, 30 years, put some kind of time Frame out there and pretend that we haven't seen each other in that amount of time. And we run into each other, and I ask you, Wyatt, how's life going, man? How are you doing? And you tell me that it's a dream life. You can't believe it's the life that you're living. Like, things are just so good. What is happening for you to give me that answer? Yeah, that was the defining question that I took and ran with it, right. To get clarity around my key relationships. What do I want Jena and I to be doing in 30 years? To say that we have the best life ever. And once I got clear on that, you reverse engineer. And that directs my calendar to how I need to approach our relationship to this day. My journal for this year, the very first thing that I get centered around is key relationships. And the very first key relationship is Janae, right? And then I get centered on what I can do today that would make that vision of 30 years from now come to fruition. And usually it's a smile, right? Like, I just. When I see her for the first time this morning, I'm going to smile. And it's just little things like that. It's nothing really earth shattering, right? But I've got that in my journal, and I will review that on every day. Right. I know that number four is my finances and what I've got to do to move the needle on my finances. Anyway, it's continual.
- [43:38]
A
So how much of that dream life are you extracting from your wife? Like, how much are you asking her these questions? How much are you leaning on her to get her thinking about this? Or do you recognize this is your journey in your way, which might not be her journey and her way?
- [43:52]
B
That's a great question, because the answer is very little. I think that there's an expectation maybe that this should be a dual kind of conversation. But Janae and I, we're complete opposites. And I will never forget when we were dating. We were on a date, and it was Janay and I met, and we were engaged soon after and married soon after. And so our time together was very short. But in that time, because we were moving so fast, I looked over to her and I said, tell me about your goals. She didn't tell me at the time, but afterwards she said, I could have just walked out and never talked to you again. What do you mean, goals? I don't have goals. I just want to live. I just want to get married and have my job and have kids and live the rest of my life. Happy. Janaya's not a goal oriented person at all. It's a big challenge in our household for me to be so goal driven, so entrepreneurial and take those risks. Being married to somebody that's not very goal driven or goal oriented and doesn't understand those risks and sort of clings to security and safety and consistency. That's where our challenges come from. Right. And anyway, what has been proven is that we have a good life and my plan is working out.
- [45:29]
A
Yeah. She's just trust you.
- [45:31]
B
She is. And it doesn't come naturally and it's not a decide to trust and I'll trust forever. It's earning that trust through conversations, sometimes daily. It depends on the season. Yeah, yeah. But it's an ongoing conversation for sure.
- [45:47]
A
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- [50:24]
B
And I think, you know, one of the things that's coming to my mind as you explain that with you and your wife, it's one thing to have goals, talk about goals and record goals versus just subconsciously have them and live them out.
- [50:38]
A
Correct.
- [50:39]
B
We were having a family conversation not too long ago. One of the little rituals that we have is Renee's very good at recording our events and experiences as a family, and she'll document those. And then probably three times a year, we'll have a family meeting where we take the notebook out and we'll relive.
- [50:57]
A
All of those events, the good and the bad.
- [51:02]
B
They're all good. Yeah, we don't. She doesn't record the bad ones. Although there have been bad moments like Baylor harassing his sister and pissing me off. And so I threw my books back down, lost my sunglasses and ran through the landscaping in Disney World to go beat his ass because I had had enough. Right. And they're all wondering what the hell just happened to dad. Psycho. Right. But so when we rehashed the Disney trip, that memory came up. Right. Anyway, one of the kids said, well, yeah, mom, what about your goals? And it was set in a derogatory manner. And she didn't have maybe the capacity to process what she was thinking. But it was a beautiful opportunity to say, you know what, though? Here's the deal. Your mom's goals gives me the chills. Is to make sure that you have a great upbringing. Your mom's goals, she's very goal oriented, actually. She's going to make sure that you eat tonight and it's going to be home cooked meal. She's going to make sure that she's present in this house when you walk home off the bus. Right. Or she's going to make sure that she's in carpool line to pick you up. That's her goals. And I think she's doing a good job. And it was this beautiful epiphany for my kids to learn in that conversation that Janae actually is goal oriented. She's just not going to talk about them. And they're very different from mine being building a business and being all, you know, metric out with a rubric and a Gantt chart and this, that and the other.
- [52:38]
A
Right. Yeah. They're harder to track, they're harder to quantify.
- [52:41]
B
That's right.
- [52:41]
A
They're harder to articulate, and at the same time, they're almost more beautiful.
- [52:46]
B
Oh, for sure. Look, I talk about the good life and the thing I love about my definition of the good life is that it's different for everybody.
- [52:55]
A
Yeah.
- [52:55]
B
My passion is to help you figure out what yours is and then help you get there. But what I'm convinced is that it doesn't matter how much money I have. If I don't have any time to experience it doesn't matter. That's not the good life. If I have all the time in the world but no money, it's probably not the good life either. If I have time and money, but I am alone, that ain't the good life. Right. So how do we figure out how to have all three Right. Time, money, and key relationships. And that was really the first. When I did that goal setting exercise, the biggest thing that I am afraid of is getting old and being lonely and having regrets. Right. And so I realized that if I want deep, rich relationships in the future, then I have to spend time today developing those relationships. And that is hard to take time to just be and to just sit and to have a conversation about what might be small talk and feel like such torture.
- [53:59]
A
Yeah.
- [54:00]
B
It's hard. But I know that it's necessary because not everybody sits in my same shoes.
- [54:06]
A
Right.
- [54:06]
B
And I know that having a relationship in 70 years from now is important to me.
- [54:11]
A
Yeah. And I think the natural question somebody would ask you is, so you have time, you have money, you have relationships. You can't have all three. Which ones would you pick? But I think that's such a bad question because you can have all three. So my question to you would be, what is holding people back from having all three? Time, relationships, Money.
- [54:30]
B
I think it's got to be mindset because I believe that you can have it all. And we have to add physical health in there, too.
- [54:35]
A
That's right. So now we need four things.
- [54:37]
B
Yeah, we need four. I think it's mindset.
- [54:41]
A
Yeah.
- [54:41]
B
I think that I can have it all. People ask, why do I want to be as successful as I have set for myself? Because it's possible. Yeah, I think it's possible. I believe that it's possible to have ultra wealth, ultra health and Ultra relationships. And I'm on a mission to figure out how to do it every day.
- [55:02]
A
And someone's going to do it, so why not you?
- [55:04]
B
That's exactly right. People have already done it.
- [55:06]
A
People have already done it, so they've.
- [55:07]
B
Already proven that it's possible. It's just a matter of putting myself in the right room with the right model, the right conversations, enough. Right. So that I can pivot daily, make a little tweak here and there and, and, and grow that vision, help it to come to fruition.
- [55:24]
A
Yeah. And I found, too, that the number one thing holding me back or the number one holding anybody back is usually the stories they tell themselves or the people that tell them those stories. And I can sit here today and say, a hundred percent mindset is the solution for 99 of your problem. But I can also sit here and tell you my mindset is not always perfect. There are good days, there are great days, and there are bad days. When you find yourself in a bad day from a mindset perspective, how do you slap yourself out of it? How do you get out of that sort of rut you're lying in and recognize I'm dwelling on something. I'm telling myself this negative story. I'm sitting in my own gossip, my own drama. Let's get out. How do you move yourself through that?
- [56:07]
B
I think that that's inevitable. And that's where I love the words forcing functions, and I've planted those in my calend. Whether it's the morning ritual every morning or if it's the gym time or if it's a podcast or a book. Right. Those are forcing functions that no matter what I feel like where my mindset is, if I go through the motions and I put myself in that situation, the gym, the book, the morning ritual, nine times out of 10, probably 10 out of 10, I'm going to come out of that forcing function feeling the motivation and the inspiration and at least better than I went into it. You're not always going to feel like it. Your mindset's not always going to. It's not going to be where it needs to be. But you've got to plant those forcing functions. That's why joining different masterminds and subscribing to coaches work, because you don't always feel like doing what you need to be doing. You don't always believe in the mission that you're on. Right. Or believe that it's possible. But when you get around those people, those books, that content, then something's going to happen. Right. Something's going to trigger. You're going to shake out of it and then find your motivation to go run the next sprint until the next forcing function is necessary.
- [57:23]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's such a beautiful concept. Forcing function. Forcing function. Because we can all build those into our calendar. We can all build those into our life. Like, one of the forcing functions I think of when you say that is the alarm clock. How many people hit snooze and are immediately saying, my goals, my visions, my dreams are not important enough. Give me seven more minutes.
- [57:43]
B
Yeah.
- [57:43]
A
I mean, and. And so for me, one of my forcing functions is that morning routine is that morning ritual. And if I come out of that feeling bad, I've got another one, which is my journal. If I come out of that feeling bad, I got another one, which is to go through my. My playbook and see what I've got going on in my life. If I still feel bad, well, then sometimes we're just gonna have a bad day, but I'm still gonna have to keep moving, one foot in front of the other to get to the end of that day. Because I have recognized that the only way to get to where I want to go is to sometimes to go through the storm. And it's all about that Buffalo mindset, right? There's a reason that buffaloes run to the storm, not from it, because they know they'll get through it quicker. So someone listening to this is like, damn, I want Wyatt to help me find my purpose. I want me to help. I want him to help me figure it all out. How do people find you? How do people connect with you? And where can they learn more about what you're up to?
- [58:29]
B
I'm on a journey. That's what I would like to say, right? Somebody said a long time ago, the best way to learn something is to teach it. And then I've shared this with you already. I subscribe to. It's better to be prolific than perfect. So I'm on a journey. I'm happy to share what works for me, Right? A lot of this is me talking to myself and staying on the floor. So with that being said, I just launched my own website, wyattgraves.com and that's a place where you can get connected with me. That's not a specific business, but that's just my ecosystem, right? And so I'm figuring out how to be more of who I'm supposed to be. And that website is a place to connect with me. It's a place to learn about my businesses, what we're up to. We're going to launch a newsletter subscription there so that people can stay up to date with all the things that I'm doing, et cetera, et cetera. So. Wyattgraves.com and it's a work in progress, so give me some mercy whenever you go there.
- [59:30]
A
Well, look, man, I really appreciate who you are. I've appreciate the impact you've had on my life, on the people inside of the GoBundance community that you've connect with, on the community you've been able to touch. It's an inspiration to have a conversation with somebody like you. And having spent the day with you today, learning a lot about how you think about, especially parenting, has really been helpful. So it's an honor to have you, man. Thank you so much.
- [59:49]
B
Same man. I appreciate the opportunity.
- [59:51]
A
Thank you. Sam.