← The Matt King Show
The Matt King Show
035: Mike Brockway | The Truth Netflix Didn’t Show About Mike From Love Is Blind
00:55:02
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Transcript108 lines
- [00:00]
A
You know, this. This girl goes on TikTok and totally destroys you without ever meeting you, without ever knowing you. Your story totally destroys our organization. GoBundance, you know, calls us a cult. On Love is Blind, Mike talked about how he's part of a tribe that's filled with wealthy men all over the country. And honestly, I immediately knew that had to be a cult. After hearing from story time with Ricky about how he bankrupted his business partner and doesn't pay for the cleaners that clean his Airbnbs, I knew I had to. Look, how has it been for you living with that hate and that negativity in such a public setting?
- [00:33]
B
It's just insane to me how something can snowball and get twisted and shape into this crazy, you know, story. In hindsight, looking back on it, that relationship may have never worked. And I think I was almost set up for failure as far as the show goes. But everyone that doesn't know me is on, you know, social media saying, like, hey, I'm a piece of. Because I was trying to figure out what she looked like, which is not the case.
- [00:57]
A
Netflix calls tomorrow. Hey, Love is Blind too. San Diego edition. You coming back? And the public knows you as Love is Blind Mike or Mike from Love is Blind, One or the other. But, like, if you had to explain, who is Mike, your true, authentic core self, without the show, how would you explain yourself to somebody else?
- [01:27]
B
I. I think something I've learned about myself recently is I place a lot of self worth in what people think. And what I've also learned recently is placing that worth or value more so, like, how I feel, but also the people around me that are important and so, like your family, your close friends, you know, the gobundance guys, my girlfriend. And at the end of the day, like, we all want to be good people and we want to help others and contribute and make a positive incapac through fulfillment. I think for me, it's important to me to be liked and to be valued and to be doing good along the way so I can be, you know, liked and valued. I think I've worked through that over time, but. But, yeah, it's definitely been a learning experience as I've gotten a lot of also hate from the show as well. So just, I think it's a matter of putting that value and that happiness and that fulfillment within the right hands.
- [02:23]
A
Yeah, and I want to get to the hate, but I mean, let's. Let's start from the beginning, right? You're doing real estate, you're investing, you're Kind of l your own life.
- [02:31]
B
Yeah.
- [02:31]
A
And then one day you wake up and you're on this viral Netflix show, which my wife is still a big fan of and I've learned some of my grown male friends are fans of too, by the way.
- [02:41]
B
Right.
- [02:42]
A
Surprising you show up on the show Love is Blind. How did it all transpire? How did you get there?
- [02:47]
B
Yeah, I honestly thought I was never going on the show. I mean, they reached out to me on Instagram and at first I'm like, is this even a real thing? They were very elusive about it, rightfully so. And so I said, hey, what do I have to lose? Right? I'll jump on the first call. And so I jump on the call and they're like, hey, this is for Love is Blind. Have you seen the show? And I'm like, no, but I'll go watch it and I'll do my research and we can circle back and do another call. So I watched a couple episodes, jumped back on the second call, and I just stayed open minded. I mean, I was single at the time, I think 36 or 37, and filmed a while ago. And I said, hey, what do I have to lose? Maybe this is something that I could benefit from. I think my friends that give me criticism about who I date, I always dated a very similar person as far as looks go, you know, in shape, blonde, tall. And obviously that hasn't worked out for me quite yet. Right. So I was like, hey, what do I have to lose? I'm going to go through the process. And it was a super lengthy process. And again, the entire time I was like, they're not going to pick me. Like, I'm too old. I'm not very dramatic. I'm probably not a good fit for the show, but I'll keep going through the, the motions. And there was a point in time where I almost quit because it was just so much work and such a process. And I was super busy at that point in time as well, doing a huge project on a, on a large property. And so. But I kept, kept pushing and eventually they were like, hey, you, you fly out next week. We'll see you on set.
- [04:22]
A
Yeah, see, I think that's an important thing to note. Like, you didn't apply for this show, you didn't beg to be on this show. Like, they contacted you and you led through it the way I love to live through my life, which is just with an open mind and with curiosity, like, hey, what can I learn from this? And what do I have to lose? Right. If the worst case scenario is go back to my normal life, then great, I'll accept that. If the best case scenario is falling in love through a wall in pods in an experiment, like, great, I'll choose that option too. Right? But I think, you know, there's, there's so much wisdom to go through life with curiosity and with an open mindedness. But I also think there's so much context that people don't truly understand, which is you didn't apply to be on the show. They asked you to come onto the show and you know, people are probably throwing a bunch of hate at you. And I've seen some of it online saying they need to improve their vetting process. This guy's a jerk. This guy's that. I mean, talk me, talk to me a little bit about that vetting process. It wasn't just like, hey, Mike. Yep, you're a good dude. See you tomorrow. It was like a rigorous process.
- [05:19]
B
Oh yeah, there's, there's background checks on background checks and you know, the scanning of social media and really anything they can, you know, utilize to figure out like who you are, what your history is, I think like both personally, professionally and through relationships as well. So they, they definitely, you know, props to them because they do a good job at even working with third party companies from what I understand or from what I remember, to go through a very rigorous process to make sure they are casting people that would be a good fit. I also think that they, again, from what I understand that they use really good, whether it's personality test or enneagram test or whatever the, whatever they use to really make sure that there is a good match for you that's going to be on the show. And they have a solid track record of getting people to first get engaged and then get married, stay married, have kids. So really I think like the show has a pretty positive track record because it does work out for some people.
- [06:18]
A
So there are people that have met on the show, got engaged on the show, got married on the show and are still together.
- [06:24]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [06:25]
A
Wow.
- [06:26]
B
Yeah. And I did get to speak to one of those individuals during the process and I had like a million questions for her. And once I spoke to some people that had seen success on the show through the relationship and through marriage. That's where I was really sold. I was like, okay, this actually can work and I'll trust the process and that's what I have to be open. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it seems pretty far fetched when you're going through it and you're like, okay, like again, what do I have to lose? I'm going to trust the process. It's worked before. You know, I was very serious about taking, you know, being in that next chapter of my life. I want to have kids, I want to have a family. And you know, at my age, I better get on that ASAP kind of thing.
- [07:04]
A
Yeah. And you get called, you're on set in a week, you go to start shooting. I mean, do they strip you of all your technology? Like, are you sort of like isolated as if you were in Vegas, let's say for a 10 day stretch with no technology?
- [07:19]
B
Yeah. One of the, one of the keys to the show, and I think, you know, almost for the better, is that they remove all distractions. And so you're obviously not going to work. Even if you work remotely, you don't have access, you don't have a laptop or computer, you don't have your cell phone and you're really able to be extremely present. And so you walk. Even when you're leading up to your dates in the pods, you, you're not thinking about work, you're not thinking about anything else besides what questions am I going to ask? What conversation do I want to have and what's important to me that I want to bring up with this person that I might propose to.
- [07:54]
A
And you're trying to fall in love with this person through a wall in what, four hour stints, two hours since, like how long are you sitting there having these conversations?
- [08:03]
B
Yeah, so it's, it, it varies, but when you first get up, when you first start dating, the dates are pretty short. And I was trying to keep track of everyone, honestly, because the first day I went on 16 different dates with 16 girls. And being an analytical person in my journal, I wrote all the names on the left hand side and then five things that were important to me across the top. And then every single day I would try to rate each girl on one to five scale how they did on that metric, but I couldn't keep up. Like, you're in there and you're trying to have a conversation, you're trying to impress the other person, you're trying to ask them 21 questions. So there was some things I wrote down about each individual, but it was really hard to decide who you actually aligned with. And eventually you're on very long dates, you're in there for hours on a single date and you really get to know that person, which I think is great. I mean, we spent a ton of time together. You ask you Talk about everything under the sun. I think the analogy that I use with, with friends that ask about it, it's basically imagine, you know, go back to when you were single, Matt. Right. And you dating over to a two year period. Say you're dating people on and off. You're mostly single during that two year period. Take those two years of dating and getting to know yourself and other people and just really compact that down to only, you know, one to two weeks. And that's how much you learn and you grow and how much, how much like FaceTime you get. Maybe not FaceTime, but how much, how much dating you do in a very short period of time. So it's super intentional and, you know, overall is a good experience.
- [09:46]
A
Yeah, I think people watching the show are like, okay, let's see if they can fall in love. Right. But there's this whole personal growth, personal development side which I know we both are addicted to or are very interested in. Like, what did your personal journey look like? Not the falling in love part, but what did your growth path look like over the short two week stint that you were there?
- [10:05]
B
Yeah, I, I did not think that I would lean into the process as much as I did and I was open minded, I think even through, through like other growth opportunities, like, like Go Bund. It's like everyone's pretty vulnerable. And I really took that vulnerability and that mindset to the pods and so I went in there with an open heart, with good intentions and I quickly realized that I was getting like, I was all in and I was getting emotional and upset and just the emotions all all over the place. And you really get to know people well. There's a scenario where someone I dated, I probably would have, you know, pursued her in the real world if I saw her at a bar because of what she looked like. But I realized in the pods that her and I didn't align. So therefore I shouldn't, you know, be putting my eggs in that basket or I shouldn't be continuing to date her. And that was a, I don't want to say I dodged a bullet, but that was a scenario where I saved myself some time not dating that individual because I didn't know what she looked like. Yeah. And eventually I was down to one person and it was, it was super emotional. Like you feel the, you feel that connection, you get to the point where you're ready to propose. I definitely did not think I'd be crying on national television, but I definitely shed some tears a couple times. So yeah, it was, it was intense.
- [11:36]
A
So what I hear you saying is, like, you learned a lot about alignment while being on the show. Right? Like, if that girl aligned or didn't align.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah.
- [11:42]
A
You know, it sounds like the show taught you that there's more to alignment than just looks. And so to say love is blind may be a little bit dramatic, but to say that love is not all about looks would be an accurate statement from what I hear you saying.
- [11:56]
B
Yeah.
- [11:56]
A
What did you learn from an alignment perspective that, you know, you looked for now coming out of the show and moving forward in not just your romantic relationships, but in business partnerships, in investment opportunities, like, in all relationships of your life?
- [12:12]
B
Yeah. When I. At least when it comes to the relationships, I thought alignment meant us being on the same page and, like, very similar, therefore we're aligned. Like, on paper, one of the girls I dated, her and I were very, very similar. I'm like, this just makes so much sense. We're so aligned. Like, this is going to work. We're going to be a power couple. Like, I'm all in. Like, sign me up. Right. And I really got, you know, sucked into the experience and into that relationship. But in hindsight, looking back on it, that relationship may have never worked because we were too similar. I'm dating someone now, and we're almost like, opposite. And the she brings things to the table that I don't. So people say opposite attract, so that's kind of the wavelength I'm on now versus before. My entire life, I dated because I wanted to find someone that was similar to me. I wanted to be a power couple. I wanted to, you know, live this. This. This life that I in my vision and I needed that person by my side to help me get there. But I've realized since that I can get there with someone that's complimentary to me and that's actually more in alignment than that person where maybe we're the same individual.
- [13:27]
A
Yeah. And it also sounds to me like your definition of get there may have changed. Like, get there may have been a financial goal or get there may have been a certain business or get there may have been some scoreboard. Now, get there, to me sounds like you're saying happiness, joy.
- [13:42]
B
Yeah.
- [13:42]
A
Fulfillment. Like enjoying the journey. Right. And it sounds like you recognize that alignment isn't about, you know, the business metric of how can we increase revenue or increase profitability and do it faster. Right. Ben Hardy. 10x better than 2 is like, how can we go faster? But, like, for you, it's about how can you do it with more joy.
- [14:01]
B
Yeah. More joy, more fulfillment, more happiness. And I think that's been one of the things I've struggled with most of my life is. And maybe this is relatable for a lot of guys in gobundance. You set that goal and that benchmark and you're like, okay, once I get there, I'll be happy, I'll have fulfillment. And we all learned the hard way that once you get there, it's very short lived. You're not happy, you're not fulfilled, you're like, okay, what's next? How do I fill my cup again? You set that next goal. And okay, when I hit this next goal, I'll definitely be happy. I'll definitely be fulfilled. And so I've kind of learned to take a step back and more. So enjoy the journey and be happy along the way.
- [14:39]
A
Yeah, I mean, Scotty Scheffler talked about that he won the Open Championship this year golf. And he basically talked about how winning the Open championship doesn't really mean anything to him anymore. Like, he may go have like a celebratory meal, enjoy it for a couple minutes through the press conferences, hug his wife, hug his kids, and it's like, okay, what's the next tournament? Like, what's the next thing? Right? And, and I think, you know what it sounds like this show or this opportunity showed you was, is that there's more to life than just the rewards and the accolades. Like the journey is the destination at the end of the day.
- [15:11]
B
Yeah. No 100%. And you can apply that to your friendships, you can apply that to your relationships. I think I'm much more selective with who I spend time with or who I give energy to. And you know, I've had good business partners, I've had bad business partners. I've owned businesses in multiple different industries and sectors. And that's definitely been looking back on it with, you know, hindsight's 20 20, I'm like, hey, that was probably the wrong person to partner with or the wrong person to spend time with because they were sucking energy versus giving energy. You want to be in a, in a scenario where like one plus one is three and you're better than the the parts.
- [15:49]
A
Yeah. I always ask myself, does this bring me energy or does this take my energy? And just because it takes my energy doesn't mean it's a no for me. It just means I have to manage my nose. Like, do I have the energy to give to this thing, this relationship, this opportunity? But it's interesting because, you know, this, this girl goes on TikTok and totally destroys you without ever meeting you, without ever knowing you. Your story totally destroys our organization. GoBundance, you know, calls us a cult, blasts us 10 ways to Tuesday without knowing us, understanding what we stand for, recognizing the fact that we just raised $85,000 in two days to help veterans in need to help different charities. You know, one of our members is supporting a bunch of people over in Africa right now, like literally bringing them schools, bringing them safety. He raised $50,000 like that for his cause to go save lives. I mean, and the lives he saved. One of the kids literally had a stick stabbed. 4 year old kid had a stick stabbed through his chest, all the way down through his genitals and was left to die. And this guy's foundation saved that child. You know, so we get this girl on TikTok going like a bunch of cult, a bunch of rich white guys. I'm like, okay, that's an interesting perspective, you know, but here you are in this light portrayed maybe one way, whether it be intentionally or not. Like, I don't want to say what their goals or their objectives were, but how has it been for you living with that hate and that negativity in such a public setting?
- [17:15]
B
Yeah. And before we dive into that, I want to give that guy a shout out. What's the name of the job?
- [17:20]
A
And job. And he's awesome. He lives in Hawaii, actually.
- [17:23]
B
I know him. Yeah, he's awesome.
- [17:24]
A
Really good dude.
- [17:25]
B
Yeah. And yeah. And Go Abundance has brought out my charitable side as well. The first conference I went to, the first ever Go Abundance conference, I donated a few thousand bucks to a charity as they were raising throughout the conference. Right. It's something that's very, very typical and I'd never done that before. If I didn't go to that GoBundance conference, I didn't join GoBundance. I never would have made that contribution.
- [17:45]
A
Right.
- [17:45]
B
And so I'm super thankful for GoBundance and everything that we, that you guys do. And you have to show up and be around those people and that will change who you are. But yeah, going back to the, the hate and the backlash, I think being someone that probably cares too much about what other people think, it's, it's. It was definitely brutal at first. I was, I was reading all the comments and, and watching all the negative press and the videos and I think I was almost set up for failure as far as the show goes as well, because I was going against a single dad and obviously I'm going to be the villain and the guy that's, you know, they kind of painted me as like, oh, like the rich white guy, half Japanese, for the record. But I don't even really consider myself wealthy, honestly, either. Right. I feel like I'm a small fish in a big pond right now among some bigger fish. Which is. Which is how I've always tried to position myself. But, yeah, it was definitely tough. And I think what it comes back to is the concept of media controls your mindset, and whatever you consume is going to control your mindset. And as you're consuming negativity and potentially reality TV and just the drama that comes with that, that's going to create a certain mindset or way of thinking. And so I had to quickly put a boundary up and say, hey, I'm not going to consume this media. I'm not going to listen to the haters. You know, I only care about what my inner circle says. My friends, my family, those close to me. Those are the opinions that matter to me. And for better, for worse, if. If I don't know you and I don't know the values you stand for, your opinion doesn't matter to me.
- [19:30]
A
Yeah. And there's this thing called confirmation bias, right. One of the speakers at one of our events, this guy named Blake Eastman, talked a lot about confirmation bias. He put up a picture on a screen, and it was like, an elderly Asian man, and he was sitting around a group of women, and he said, like, this is a picture of one of the most famous serial killers. You know, what do you see in these women's faces? They're like fear, sadness, you know, like all these things, right? And then he clicked to the next slide and actually said, like, that was one of the most charitable guys in China. And he just showed you how your bias towards what that picture was trying to tell you can determine what you read into people's emotions and their faces, right? And so I think there's a lot of confirmation bias that exists, too, where the show, again, whether it was intentional or not, paints you in a certain light, and then people are just looking for reasons why you're an asshole, whether it's because you choose to wear sunglasses or you don't have knowledge about diabetes that other people do. You were painted to be this villain, but you're in this pod, you're in this experiment, as they call it. You have no technology, you're having these long winded conversations. And we the consumers, or they, I should say, because we have not watched it. But my wife brought me up to speech. She Helped me prep for this one. You know, they're watching this, they're only seeing like 30 seconds, 45 seconds, like the one sound bite from the four hour conversation. So, you know, you get people reaching out to you saying you're an asshole. And you said all of these bad things, for instance, about kids with diabetes. I mean, what would you tell people that reach out to you? I mean, obviously not gonna respond to all of them, but if you had the opportunity to answer them, what would you say?
- [21:03]
B
Yeah, I think, I think the first thing I would say is what mattered most to me, just even, even speaking to the comment about diabetes. I was having that conversation just like I have any other conversation with, with someone that's more knowledgeable than me or about a topic I don't understand. Again, no cell phone, didn't have chat GPT or I couldn't Google, you know, hey, let me research diabetes before I talk about it. Right? And some can say like, hey, that was, that was not a good choice. But you're in there having a conversation and it came up and I'm just responding to what I hear, what's going on, and I'm not knowledgeable about everything I speak to, but I'm trying to learn through conversation, and that's all I was doing in there. What was important to me was my friendship that I built over time with Jordan, whose son has diabetes. The first thing I did was I called Jordan and said, hey, man, I don't want this to be taken out of context. I, I do apologize if, you know, I said something hurtful. I truly did not understand the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. I've been fortunate enough in my life that no one close to me has had type 1 diabetes. Therefore, I just didn't know how you got it. So to me, it was. I didn't understand how someone who was healthy could get diabetes at the end of the day. And so I misspoke about that. Um, I do apologize if that hurt anyone in any way. That was not my intention. I was not speaking or coming from a negative place. I was just trying to learn and have conversation with Megan, whose dad also had diabetes. So it was just me exploring and having conversation again. Like you said, you're in there for hours and hours and you talk about everything under the sun. You're trying to get married, and so things are going to come up that you're not knowledgeable on. That happens to me on a daily basis.
- [22:54]
A
Yeah. What did Jordan. Jordan was this guy's name Jordan?
- [22:56]
B
Yeah.
- [22:56]
A
What did he say.
- [22:57]
B
He. He. He said that he was not worried about it. You know, he did say, hey, I was kind of bummed that you brought his son Luke, my son Luca, into it at the time. And when that comment was made, I didn't know that he was also dating Megan. I didn't know his son's name. I really hadn't built a connection with him. I was just referencing, oh, I. One of the guys has a son who has diabetes, and just no personal connection there. But as I built a friendship with him, I just kind of felt like his opinion mattered to me. He's a good. He's a great guy. I respect him a lot, and I really cared about what his opinion was and how he felt about it. But besides that, he forgave me very quickly, and he was great about it. I took it a step further, and I made a donation to one of the charities that he. He supports and. And shared that with him. Did not share that with anyone else. He decided. He decided to share that with others. I think that's super respectable of him. He said, I was coming from a place, a good place, and I did everything I could to, you know, make sure that our friendship was solid and that he wasn't upset with me. And again, that's. That's really what mattered to me in that. At that point in time, because it wasn't personal. I wasn't directing it at the entire world or anyone else with diabetes. But unfortunately, some people took it that way. And social media has definitely, you know, come at me in my DMs about pretty hard on that one.
- [24:25]
A
It's crazy, the world we live in and how people just pick the villain without ever meeting them, without understanding their story and just attack them again, whether it's for sunglasses or a comment that may have been taken out of context of a very, very long conversation. And to me, what's most important is who you are when the spotlight's not on you. Right. And so for you to say, like, hey, I made this donation, didn't use that as a way to defend the hate, didn't use that as a way to deflect the hate, Just did it in silence, behind the scenes, talked to him about it. He chose to share it publicly, you know, tells me a lot about who you are and, like, the importance of integrity to you. But all this criticism is being thrown at you. How do you not lose yourself in it? How do you not lose your confidence in it?
- [25:12]
B
Yeah, that's definitely been. I've gone through a lot of growth on this one. At least that's how I feel. And it's just been growth forced by visibility. Now I'm. I signed up for the show. I take full responsibility for that. I knew that it could be. The footage could be used in any way that they wanted to be used in, and it could be heavily edited. We all. We all understand that going into the experiment, But I've definitely seen some growth because I'm highly visible. I put myself out there. I put myself out there for criticism, and that's definitely happened. But I'm just looking at it as a growth opportunity. You and I both have a lot of friends that have been through hard things, and they've been criticized on social media, and they just come out the other side stronger. So I'm just making sure I'm getting back on the horse and pushing forward and becoming a better person through the process.
- [26:01]
A
Yeah, it's all about who you surround yourself, right? Like, if you surround yourself with toxic people, they're going to give you more toxic energy. If you surround yourself with positive, you know, motivated individuals, they're going to help you through the rut and back into the reality that you choose to live. You know, I think the most interesting part about it for me was, again, I'm not a consumer of love is blind. My wife has watched the show, likes the show, is interested in the show, but, you know, she wasn't interested in this season until she found out this gobundance member was on the show. And the way we found out was, like, grown friends, men were reaching out to me and like, hey, is there a gobundance guy on love is blind? And I was like, you know, you and I had had a conversation before. I didn't know what the show was, right. But when one of my friends sent me a picture, I was like, yes, that's a gobundance guy. Like, I knew you. We had had this conversation that you had signed up for something but couldn't disclose it at that moment. And so, you know, I mean, but that was two years ago, year and a half. That was a long time ago. And so you've gone all this time with the show being already done. You still have a life to go live, but now here comes the show, it drops, and now you're almost, like, reliving it all as if it were yesterday when in reality, it was two years ago. So for you, what has that showed you about life, emotions, relationships, perception?
- [27:29]
B
Yeah, it's. I think it's tough because people say, like, hey, perception is Reality. And I think you said it really well on when. When you basically said it's. It's a very dangerous way to live life, just believing everything you see out there. Right. And at first it was really hard for me to read some of the comments and some of the dms and stuff like that, but then I just was thinking to myself and. And chatting with some friends, like, what type of person is going through so much or has so much bottle up inside where they're messaging a complete stranger, you know, all this hate on social media, someone they've never met. Right? Like, take you and I, or even yourself, like, what would you ever message a complete stranger with. With hate and negativity? Like, you would never do that. Right. And so not that I'm trying to be judgmental, but there's a part of me where that I just decided, like, hey, like, that that person's opinion doesn't matter, and I don't value that. And that's what. That's helped me get through this. This quite a bit. And. Sorry, no track on the question.
- [28:36]
A
That's. That's great. I mean, and like, I kind of call them keyboard gangsters, right? Like, you know, in the opportunities that I've been afforded in my life and the things that I've gotten to do, I too have received hate at times from people. Not nearly at the level you've experienced it, not nearly in the amount of spotlight you it. But, you know, behind an email, behind a dm, behind a comment, people are nasty.
- [28:58]
B
Yeah.
- [28:59]
A
Then you pick up the phone and they're a little different. Then you see them face to face and they're like, they never sent the message.
- [29:05]
B
Yeah.
- [29:06]
A
They never sent the dm. And I think it was interesting because, you know, this girl drops a viral TikTok, which I'm not even a tiktoker, but I got sent this TikTok, and I'm like, okay, we got to respond to this. And, you know, in that moment, there was two lines. Like, one, totally destroy her credibility, or two, take the high road, receive what she has to say and put a different perspective on it. Like, my personal perspective, the one I've experienced. And so we share that. And my DM start blowing up about your show. Like, you on the show and people questioning your character, people trying to judge you based on a very, very limited amount of facts that they know from 2017, 2018, you know, people with a very limited understanding of the legal process trying to judge you for lawsuits, which you and I both know aren't lawsuits. Because we're fortunate to understand the legal system and stuff like that, you know, and. And these people want to now attack you and come after you. And I was always taught that there's sort of three sides to every story. There's one side, there's the other person's side, and then there's the truth, which is likely somewhere in the middle, some hodgepodge of it all. But, you know, there's. There's people saying, didn't pay, didn't do this, wrongfully employed, like, all of these things people are throwing to try to challenge your character, essentially. What would you say to those people?
- [30:31]
B
Yeah, that's. That's a. That's a good question. I think I spoke to a friend about this who's an entrepreneur, and he. I respect his opinion. And he's like, no one understands, you know, the everyday person has a W2 job or, you know, isn't in real estate or business or isn't an entrepreneur. They have no idea what it's like to manage people and multiple businesses and hold people accountable. And sometimes, you know, as much as I don't like to be the bad guy, you have to be the bad guy to hold that person accountable. And maybe that's not even the right terminology for it. Right. But, you know, because I have a couple attorneys involved just to defend myself and make sure that I'm, you know, maybe going after these allegations or trying to, you know, do what I think was right on my side, I won't speak to it too much. But, yeah, it's definitely. It's definitely been tough. And at the end of the day, if someone doesn't perform or doesn't do the job or doesn't follow the process, like, they don't get. You don't get paid for that. I wouldn't show up to a day job or, you know, if I was working with you, I wouldn't show up and say, hey, here's what I promised I'm going to do, not fulfill that and expect that I not only get paid or get paid in addition to that, or try to, like, you know, retrade on you. I guess maybe that's not commercial world. Right. But it's just some people, the expectations are way off, and you have to navigate these tough conversations and these tough scenarios where people miss expectations, and sometimes it's not worth it, and sometimes you have to also stand your ground.
- [31:59]
A
Yeah.
- [32:00]
B
And at the end of the day, what's most important for me is I have a couple investors on certain deals, and that investor that private money lender, like at the end of the day, I'm making sure they're getting paid back and that I have a responsibility to that person. So if a contractor doesn't do the job, do the job well, or, you know, the correct scope of work, then I'm not going to use, you know, profits or the investor dollars to pay that person. We're going to work something out or they're going to fix the. Fix the scenario.
- [32:29]
A
Yeah. So like what I hear you saying is it would be like if you drove to McDonald's, which is a bad analogy because both you and I like to eat healthy. But let's say you drove through McDonald's and you order a milksh, even to make it healthier and you get to the drive thru window and they ask for the money and then never give you the milkshake. You wouldn't pay for no milkshake. Like you're buying the milkshake. Right. And whether it's service people, whether it's employees, whether it's contracts, like there is contracts and there is a way of doing business. And I think Ben Hardy said it best actually recently at our GoBundis event. He said most people choose to look good rather than be great. And I think when you choose to look good, you try to please everybody, you try to make the right choice, you try to do the right thing that optically is going to make you look better or optically going to make somebody feel better. But when it comes down to a piano, like pianos have no looks, they have no feelings. Like, it's just simple math. Like 1 plus 1 equals 2, 2 plus 2 equals 4. And so what I hear you saying is, is there's probably more to all of those stories that people are blowing me up about. Oh yeah, there's probably a lot more context, no differently than what happened in the pod in those experiments. And at the end of the day, you can sit here today and confidently know who you are and you are in integrity with your moral compass, your guides, your ethics.
- [33:46]
B
Yeah, for sure. And it is just insane to me how something can snowball and get twisted and shape into this crazy, you know, story at the end of the day. Like, I've never been sued, I've never been in trouble, I've never misrepresented financials or any of these allegations. Right. I even feel crazy saying it right now, but somehow it started, you know, from someone talking trash about me. And that just evolved into a story where someone's saying like, oh, Mike owes millions and he's being sued and this and that. I'm like, where the hell is this coming from? Right. But at the end of the day, it's clickbait. They're trying to get views, get clicks, monetize their platforms. And so I think it's a pretty. I wouldn't say I respect that person that it's. That chooses that day job to trash other people and create drama. But at the end of the day, I guess they're running their business and they want clicks and views and they're just doing whatever they need to do to hit those metrics.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah. And look, I think it's an opportunity for us to use platforms as, quote, unquote, clickbait. Right. But I think then it's another beautiful opportunity to use that platform as a way to have an honest conversation. You know, Mike owes millions. Okay, cool. Let's get Mike on the podcast. Let's get Mike on Live. Let's get Mike here in person, and let's talk to Mike. I mean, I don't know a single real estate investor that doesn't owe millions. I don't know a single successful business person that doesn't owe millions somewhere down the road. Right. And whether you have debt on assets or don't have debt on assets is really none of their business. Like, it's not really a judge of your character or who you are. And so as you kind of walk forward from the lessons from the show, the lessons that you're kind of gaining through coming out of the show, what business lessons did you learn from this experience?
- [35:37]
B
Yeah, I think so. I'm. As far as business goes and me, goal setting and what I want to do with my future. I'm searching for simplicity now. I want to control every aspect of the business. I want to be in charge. I've been involved with businesses where I wasn't necessarily an lp, but I was a partner where I wasn't necessarily controlling the direction of that business. But I'm responsible for that at the end of the day, or partially responsible for that. That's where another crazy story came out of the woodwork where, like, I bought a house in Hawaii from. Because I stole from this business partner. Like, it was kind of. It was actually the opposite. And I wish I owned a house in Hawaii, but unfortunately I don't.
- [36:15]
A
Not yet.
- [36:16]
B
Yeah. So it's. Again, just. Just quick tangent. It's pretty wild to hear stuff like that, but I just want simplicity in my life, and that's going back to fulfillment and happiness and, you know, hitting goals but, and living like, and living life to the fullest, but keeping your headspace and your peace and your happiness. And so my next, I guess as far as my goals go, I'm going to be moving or starting to move into the San Diego market. I have some good friends out there, a few guys from GoBundance that are, that are doing some big things out there in the real estate space. I think there's an opportunity in the real estate space out there. I'm going to combine my expertise in short term rentals and property management and I'm going to start doing some acquisitions out there very slowly over time, but with some good mentors that are already doing it and already successful out there. So I'm looking forward to learning that market, getting out there, and then eventually I want to do the same thing in Hawaii. I have a bunch of family out there. My mom's on Oahu, my sister's on Big island, we have a ton of friends on Maui, a couple of friends in Kauai. And I want to eventually figure out how to own property in Hawaii and make it make sense and make it profitable or sustainable to a point where I can live out there and again, not have too much complexity and too many problems and just search for that simplicity and keeping that in mind, what.
- [37:44]
A
I think is beautiful about that is you have a why. Like it sounds like your why is clearer than ever. Simplicity and quality of life.
- [37:50]
B
Yeah.
- [37:51]
A
And you have a vision or you see a path to achieving those things. And, and you know, it sounds like a lot of that came from this experience from the show. Right. Whether it was falling in love in 10 days in an experiment or whether it was death threats in your DMs. Right. Like it's all showed you the breath of life. Like the, the, the depth of the complexities of life. If we're not aware, if we're not conscious, and if we don't proactively choose what we want from life. And you touched on something there, which is this Airbnb thing, you know, that was the hottest girl at the dance. That was the prettiest opportunity coming out of COVID Right. People were locked down, nobody could travel. Like, let's go blow up every Airbnb market under the sun. We're going to buy these properties, we make all this money. You know, what is your perspective or your outlook on the Airbnb market moving forward? Is there still an opportunity? Is that opportun debt and what do people need to be aware of?
- [38:43]
B
Yeah, I still think there is an opportunity there. But you have to be very strategic and selective about it. You really know the market. For me, I've been in Denver for 10 years and so I know every neighborhood. I know the market, I know the legislation, the rules that are city by city or county by county like the back of my hand. So I'm able to be successful in that, that Denver metro area. If you're going into a new market or you're buying something, you know, from out of state, I think that's where you're kind of playing with fire. All, all that being said, also have a plan B, right? Everyone, whenever we're investing in something, we're like, okay, what's the exit strategy? What's the plan B? What if it doesn't go as planned? Those are all things that you need to keep in mind as you're, as you're looking to approach this strategy. But as far as like where it's going, profits are definitely down. I mean, rates are high right now.
- [39:32]
A
Insurance is high.
- [39:33]
B
Yeah, everything's higher right now. Right. So your expenses are higher right now. When you're acquiring a short term rental and you're operating it. What's happening and where I operate my business and where I help people operate is you want to be the best in the market. You want to have, you know, you want to niche down. You want to have a really good design theme, amenities, and you want to be the amongst the best, like the top 10% in the market. And even though you're, that's been working out great for me, I've still seen success. There's seasonality in Colorado, but that's expected as we go into the winter season. It's a little slower. Summer's, Summer's better. Right. But everyone's doing that now. Everyone's trying to have every single amenity under the sun. Everyone's trying to be the top 10%. There's going to be a point where every single property, every single Airbnb in a given market has every single amenity. So then what's next? Right? Are you going to, you know, you have the pickleball courts, the basketball hoops, like the hot tubs, the fire pits, saunas, all that. Once everyone has those amenities, then what? Everyone's going to be on the same level. And eventually people are going to potentially buy into some bad deals even with that, that proven strategy. And so maybe you get the next thing like the rock climbing wall or something crazy. But it's going to be becoming harder and harder to compete and it's becoming More and more saturated. So I would just say do it selectively and also offset that with something that's a little more risk free. And so my background's in financial services. I worked at Goldman Sachs for a few years. Fidelity Investments did wealth management and we always preached asset allocation. And so the reason I'm going to San Diego to make that play is because I have these short term rentals which are higher risk and there's some higher return there. But I want to offset that with some long term rentals being safe, being a safer, I guess, niche in real estate or asset class.
- [41:30]
A
Yeah, you want to diversify.
- [41:31]
B
Exactly, yeah, diversify. Make sure your allocation is diversified and you have, you know, something safe and something riskier and you're diversified amongst things. So when short term rentals potentially don't do as well, you still have those like concrete long term rent rental checks coming in.
- [41:50]
A
Yeah. And it sounds like for you it's all about moving you towards this life of simplicity, this life of, of abundance. Right. Which is one of the things we talk a lot about in abundance is like living an abundant life. And a lot of people think that abundance is all about money. And, and my wife told me you talked at one point on the show about your health and your, the importance of health to you.
- [42:13]
B
Yeah.
- [42:13]
A
And you received a ton of hate for it, a ton of judgment, a ton of criticism. You know, for me health is extremely important and for many members of GoBundance, health is extremely important. It's one of our pillars. Age defying health. But for you, why is health so important?
- [42:30]
B
Yeah, no, I, I'm always keeping age defying health in the back of my mind partially because of abundance and say one reason it's important to me is because my girlfriend's almost 10 years younger than me and hey, like I don't want to die before she does. Like I want to be able to live a full life and play with my kids and live a high quality lifestyle without feeling like I'm not in shape or I'm out of breath or you know, maybe something worse. You know, maybe I'm, maybe I'm get sick. Right. So keeping that top of mind is just, that's core to me and who I am and how I want to live my life. But I think it's just like anything else. If you go into a room of individuals or in this case on a pod date in front of the entire world and start talking about it in front of people that don't get it and don't understand, like why it's important. You're going to, judgment is going to be passed. And so people are, even though I'm going into that, that into that pod date, saying like, hey, this is why health is important to me. This is why biohacking is important to me. This is why I, you know, mention my sauna or red light therapy in my office. It's not because I'm in there trying to say, trying to understand if that girl is attractive or not or if she's in shape. It's because that's important to me.
- [43:41]
A
Right?
- [43:42]
B
But everyone that doesn't know me is on, you know, social media saying like, hey, I'm a piece of. Because I was trying to figure out what she looked like, which is not the case.
- [43:51]
A
How does sauna determine what I don't, I really don't get it, right. Like I just don't understand people. But I, I think for me, one of the things that I tell myself, or at least what I think to have experienced in life is the second somebody judges you, really what they are, is, is they're jealous or they feel some sort of like self awareness around an insecurity that they may have. And so for you, you know, you're getting these people thinking you're trying to determine what somebody looks like based off of the fact that you use a sauna, which I still don't fully understand how you would even have done that.
- [44:27]
B
Right.
- [44:29]
A
But you also are going through this experience with other people. Like you're not in this experiment by yourself. Like there's other guys, there's other girls. You said you went on 16 dates in that first conversation. For you, what did the experiment teach you about people?
- [44:44]
B
I had the opportunity to get to know people that I wouldn't have otherwise and build a friendship and even connection and bond with the guys throughout that process. And that was really cool for me because some of them were, you know, those age got through to there. Some of Those guys were 26 and I'm still friends with those and they're, and there's things that are relatable between us and them. You know, one of the guys is in logistics and you know, trains guys to drive semi trailers and him and I, him and I bonded, right. But I never would have maybe had access to that person or been able to build that friendship in another setting. So that was super cool. Even some of the folks on the production team, you know, you get to work, work very closely with them, you build friendships with them and yeah, you have some really, really good conversations with with people that they just aren't going to show on camera. There was one moment where, you know, I kind of felt like the. Like the dad in the scenario. But one of the guys who was 26 came out of a date and he was super upset, and he's, like getting down on himself and he's like, oh, I'm never gonna get married. Like, you know, I'm not hitting it off with this girl. And, you know, he was super upset. And I called over another one of the older guys. The one guy was older than me. His name is Michael. He's 39. I'm like, hey, Michael, come over here. We got a chat with Rohan and we just told him point blank, like, hey, man, you're freaking 26. You have so much life ahead of you. You're gonna grow so much over the next, even two to three years and figure out who you are, what's important, Become the man you want to be. Don't worry about getting married today. You have so much growth to do. You're going to become, you know, more of who you are and figure things out, and you're going to find the person through that process that's going to be your wife. Like, don't beat yourself up if you're 26 and you're not married yet or you're not hitting it off with this one, this one girl. Like, you get. You got this kind of thing, you know, And I think it's easy for me to say, you know, being in a lot of different relationships and dating quite a bit and figuring out what's important to me, but I am so thankful I did not get. Get married at 26.
- [46:51]
A
Yeah. And I mean, now you're probably also thankful that you didn't get married from this pod experience. Right? It sounds like those experiences in the experiment gave you clarity as to what you were looking for in your next relationship. And it sounds like you have found one that aligns in the way that alignment should align, not the way that alignment in business maybe might align.
- [47:12]
B
Yeah, that complementary.
- [47:14]
A
That compliment.
- [47:15]
B
Yeah, alignment.
- [47:18]
A
Gobundance is a community of over 800 high performers, entrepreneurs and investors with a combined net worth of over $5.7 billion. But look, it's not just about the money. We're about building lives of abundance. If you're ready for a tribe that challenges you to achieve a higher standard for yourself, visit gobundance.com tribe that's G O b u n d A N C E.com T R I b e to apply today. Oh, Netflix Calls tomorrow. Hey, Love is Blind to San Diego edition. You coming back?
- [47:57]
B
I'm going to have to politely decline that. I think if it was something that was real estate related or maybe something that was along the lines of a competition, but as far as like a singles based reality TV show, you know, I had had a good time, I had a great experience during filming, learned a lot about myself, but I probably wouldn't do a show that was similar to. To Love is Blind.
- [48:25]
A
Yeah. And, you know, you have this opportunity to, to share a message with the haters, the dm, death threaters, whatever you want to. The keyboard gangsters, let's call them.
- [48:36]
B
Yeah.
- [48:37]
A
If you could say one thing that would encompass all of the hate, all of the judgment towards you, all of the criticism people are throwing at you, what would you say?
- [48:47]
B
Yeah, I think I do, I do empathize and I try to have understanding for, like, where they're coming from or why they're doing this, but at the end of the day, we're all, we're all humans. Right. And just because we're on Netflix on Love is Blind doesn't mean that we're not human and we're not perfect. And that goes for myself, that goes for the rest of the cast. Everyone's getting catching heat right now and they don't. Do they deserve that? I don't think so. Right. Like, what gives you the right to tell someone that they're a terrible person? Like, you've never met them, you don't personally know them. Like, why. Why do you feel the need to force your opinion on that other person when you've never met them and you're really just passing judgment without being educated.
- [49:34]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, what I hear you saying is the same way you got into this experiment, Love is Blind is leading with curiosity. Leading with an open mind is the same thing you would encourage others to practice if they're able or if they're willing. And if they choose not to, your response would basically be, you know, thank you for reaching out. Like, I, I understand your perspective. I'm trying to empathize with you, but there's a different set of facts or a different reality here that I'm choosing not to ignore. And if you want to ignore it, that's your choice.
- [50:05]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, hopefully this doesn't sound too negative, but at the end of the day, like, I don't owe that person anything. I owe certain individuals that are close to me a response. My friends, my family, Jordan, that one scenario that I mentioned, but I don't think it makes me a bad person when I decide that I don't want to respond to every negative comment or I don't owe this stranger a response or justification around what I said. That was, again, highly cut up and edited. It's. I get why they do it. I get why everything's. Is why the show is so successful and they really know what they're doing. They know how to get people to fall in love and they know how to really create a great, a great show. And obviously they're crushing as far as views and it being the number one show on Netflix right now. But just give some people grace and give the cast some grace and don't act like you know who they are at their core.
- [51:07]
A
Yeah. And don't just believe anything you see.
- [51:09]
B
On social media, too.
- [51:10]
A
Yeah, it'd be like trying to source Wikipedia and be like, oh, yeah, it's on Wikipedia. That must be fact. Right? You know, lead with curiosity. And, you know, the other thing that I just recognize is each and every one of us has such a beautiful opportunity to live whatever life we choose, whether it's to consume reality TV and then blow up the cast, or whether it's to avoid reality TV and go out and chase our dreams, our goals, our aspirations. You know, from. From my perspective, I just always try to encourage people, like, if this is what brings you fire, if this is what lights you up, that's your choice. But I don't have to choose to engage with this. And it sounds like you've reached a similar point of like, hey, you know, this isn't my burden to carry. Your judgment isn't mine to answer. If that's your perspective. You know, I'm sorry that that's your perspective, but I've got goals, I've got dreams, I've got a girlfriend, I've got a vision, and I'm going to go chase those things.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah, I'm going up for it no matter what, regardless of the haters in my DMs.
- [52:06]
A
Look, man, I give you a ton of credit. I think you put yourself in a very vulnerable, new, unique, uncertain opportunity. But I applaud you for doing it with an open mind. I applaud you for, for leaning in and playing what it sounds like full out in the experiment. I mean, it sounds like you were putting yourself on the line to truly see if love was blind, if you could fall in love, what was on the other side of that wall and if it would work for you. But more importantly for me. I think what I really honor in you is that you're coming out of the experience and saying, what can I learn from this and how can I apply it? How can I make myself a better man? How can I make the people around me better? And understanding nobody is perfect. And the second we think we're perfect is probably the second we're going to make another mistake. But just doing it with grace, having the willingness to fly down to Austin and have a conversation, having the willingness to let this conversation flows wherever it flows, without rules, without guidelines, without a publicist here saying, don't go here. Don't do that. Stop that. Stop this. I just honor you, and I see how heavy it is on you to deal with the haters and the criticism and the judgment. And just like you gave advice, I believe you said his name was Rohan. Like, my advice to you, though you didn't ask for it, would be keep your head up. You know, Know who you are at your true core. I see who you are at your true core. People around you see who you are at your true core and just keep going on, man.
- [53:32]
B
Yeah. Yeah. No, thanks so much, man. I. I appreciate that. And it's. I definitely have some positive light from the show as well. So I do send some gratitude to those that have been supportive and have said really nice things to me and my friends and family that have been super supportive as well, and yourself and the gobundance, and that speaks wonders to why I'm a part of gobundance and why it's such a big part of my life. So thank you for having me.
- [53:55]
A
I think it's easy to bail on people when the noise gets loud. I think it's hard to lean into them when the noise gets loud. Stand by their side in the fire, in the fight. But that's what, you know, let's say our cult, because that's what that girl called it, was a cult. Right.
- [54:09]
B
But. Right.
- [54:10]
A
That's what brotherhood's all about. That's what family's all about. And, you know, for gobundance, yeah, we call it a tribe, but you could easily exchange the word tribe for the word family. And at the end of the day, we're a brotherhood. We're a family. We're standing next to each other, with each other. Yeah. We might not always agree with each other, but we're there to support one another and lift them up. So I just appreciate who you are. Appreciate making the time to be here and excited. Excited to see what life has in store for you, whether it's the San Diego, whether it's. It's the. The girlfriend, whether it's the move to Hawaii, I think there's. There's beautiful things on the horizon for you. And I'm honored to know you.
- [54:42]
B
Awesome. Thanks so much, brother. Appreciate you.
- [54:44]
A
Thank.
- [54:56]
B
You. It.