056: The Truth About Raising Strong Kids | Jon Vroman, Wyatt Graves, Ken Wimberly

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Matt King Show

Episode 056: The Truth About Raising Strong Kids | Jon Vroman, Wyatt Graves, Ken Wimberly
Date: April 21, 2026
Host: Matt King (GoBundance)
Guests: Jon Vroman, Wyatt Graves, Ken Wimberly

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the nuances of raising strong, resilient children in the context of high-achieving families. The conversation centers around authentic communication, modeling values, facing failures, and supporting kids through both success and difficulty. The speakers share personal stories, actionable advice, and deep reflections on parenthood, emotional health, and what it means to build trust and independence in children.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Role of Open Conversation and Authenticity

• Emphasizing Communication:
  • Ken Wimberly highlights the importance of honest, open discussions with children, especially about beliefs and challenges. Avoiding tough conversations or disengaging has negative consequences.
  • Ken: “I think one of the most dangerous things is silence… parents don't push enough. They don't lean in enough.” (00:03-00:57)
  • Children want to be seen, challenged, and held to high standards.
• Avoiding Gaslighting:
  • Ken warns against falsely reassuring kids (“I’m fine”) when it’s not true. This teaches children to distrust their intuition.
    • Ken: “What you’re telling them is, don’t trust your compass… you read the room right. But don’t trust yourself.” (03:24-03:56)
• Balancing Vulnerability and Protection:
  • There’s a balance between sharing honestly and not burdening children with adult problems.
  • Ken reflects on the challenge of knowing “what to say, how much to say, what to reveal.” (04:04-05:34)

2. Values-Based Parenting

• Principles Over Emotion:
  • Sam (Wyatt Graves) shares his belief that authentic manhood and parenting are rooted in living by core values rather than emotions.
    • Sam: “A man that lives by principles, not emotions… we always go back to what are our values?” (05:34-06:39)
• Teaching Values Actively:
  • Sam describes being intentional and verbose in family discussions to explain the “why behind the what.” (08:22-08:24)
  • While he desires a formal family creed, they focus on values during pivotal moments.
    • Sam: “In the heat of a moment… we’re going to ask the question, what’s most important?” (06:52-08:13)
• Evolution of Parenting Identity:
  • Sam discusses realizing his identity as a father needed to change as his son matured, learning to trust in the long-term power of values-driven parenting.
    • Sam: “[My son] is a much younger version than who he is right now… I probably didn’t need to worry as much as I did.” (11:17-12:09)

3. Building Legacy Through Actions and Documentation

• Journaling as a Gift:
  • Ken describes creating a digital journal for his children, which he maintained in secret for over a decade and later gifted at graduation.
    • Ken: “I’d been journaling to my daughter for 13 years… and I just kept getting signals like, that’s what caused me to do it.” (12:09-12:59)
    • The journal contained over 300 entries: “The cadence I tried to hit was once a month… on average, I think it was right around 300 entries.” (15:02-15:36)
• Impact of Example:
  • Ken’s actions—working on personal growth—were more influential on his daughter than words.
    • Interviewer: “Our kids learn more from our actions than they do from our words…” (15:36)
    • Ken: “She so admires your development path… seeing you do it makes me okay to do it on my own.” (13:52)

4. Navigating Personal and Family Struggles

• Handling Crisis and Depression:
  • Ken reveals his own dark period after a business setback and how it affected his family.
    • Ken: “I felt like I let every one of my customers down… I had a lot of struggles going on with my son…” (16:02-17:20)
• Seeking Help and Diagnosis:
  • A pivotal conversation about untreated ADHD led to breakthrough treatment for his son, fundamentally changing their relationship.
    • Ken: “Once he gets the right medication: night and day… it was the most beautiful thing.” (17:25-18:54)
  • Ken’s own healing involved brain scans and specially tailored supplements.
    • Ken: “I went and had these brain scans and… she recommended some supplements… that put me on a year long journey…” (18:54-20:19)
• Community Support:
  • The importance of leaning on supportive networks (GoBundance, Front Row Dads) was emphasized for both personal and parental resilience.
    • Ken: “Lean on your network. That was so important… people would immediately reach out… which is good because I had a plan, man.” (20:38-21:36)
• Marital Resilience:
  • Ken credits his wife’s unwavering support during his lowest points.
    • Ken: “She’s a saint… she was with me through the whole thing.” (21:39-22:41)

5. Modeling Over Telling: True Leadership

• Influencing by Example:
  • Actions, not instructions, shift family behavior and inspire children and spouses to grow.
    • Interviewer: “When you show, don’t tell. Just show people… That’s the true form of leadership.” (22:45-23:46)
    • Ken (joking): “Go fly a guy. Don’t tell me what to do.” (22:48-22:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Silence is one of the most dangerous things … and parents miss the boat with this with their kids.”
  — Ken (00:03)
• “You’re basically saying, don’t trust yourself.”
  — Ken, on parental gaslighting (03:24)
• “A man that lives by principles, not emotions… We always go back to what are our values?”
  — Sam (05:34)
• “I want to teach. I want to explain why behind the what.”
  — Sam (08:24)
• “She so admires your development path … seeing you do it makes me okay to do it on my own.”
  — Ken (13:52)
• “If you’re feeling like that, number one: lean on your network.”
  — Ken, on overcoming depression and struggle (20:38)
• “Just show people… That’s the true form of leadership.”
  — Interviewer (22:45)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:03-01:44: Ken on communication, beliefs, and dangers of silence
• 03:24-03:56: Gaslighting and kids trusting their intuition
• 05:34-06:39: Sam introduces principles-based living
• 08:22-08:24: Teaching the why behind decisions
• 12:09-13:52: Ken journaling for his children and the impact
• 15:36-16:02: Modeling behavior as leadership for kids
• 16:02-17:20: Ken describes going through business loss and family struggles
• 17:20-18:54: ADHD diagnosis breakthrough for Ken’s son
• 18:54-21:36: Ken’s personal health and recovery journey
• 21:39-22:41: Marriage resilience during dark periods
• 22:41-23:46: Leadership by example, not instruction

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Summary Takeaways

This episode provides a heartfelt, nuanced exploration of the highs and lows of courageous parenting. The guests model vulnerability, highlight values-driven leadership, and provide concrete examples of real-life struggles and triumphs. Whether it’s journaling for future generations, examining the impact of mental health, or the delicate dance of honesty and protection, the episode underscores that the most powerful lessons for kids come not from what we say, but from what we live.

Transcript

[Ken]

But this beautiful thing led to this conversation for Tiger. And what I'm ultimately trying to do is get into his head about what he sees that he either wants or wants to avoid. And to me, that bringing awareness to things, having, like, open conversations, is the answer to understanding ourselves. And so I'm getting back to the question or I think the topic at hand, which is how are our beliefs formed and are we talking about. About them? Because I think one of the most dangerous things is silence. Like, and parents miss the boat with this with their kids, where they're afraid to talk to their kids, they're afraid to get into these big subjects. And I think that one of the things I see more often than not is parents don't push enough. They don't lean in enough. They're actually afraid to discipline. They're afraid to engage because they're like, well, I don't want to push my kid, or I don't. But they. They do the opposite, which is to disengage.

Yeah.

And what we hear and what we see in the data is that kids actually want you to push a little bit or a lot at times. They want you to care. They want you to see them. They want you to challenge them, to hold them to a high standard. They want to know, do you see me for who I am? Do you have a vision for my life, you know, and are you willing to engage with me around it?

[Interviewer]

So what did he say?

[Ken]

He said, one of the things he loves is that I have a lot of freedom. He said, I see your life. If you wanted to hop on a plane tomorrow and go to Colorado and see a friend, you can. You can do anything you want with anyone you want at any time that you want. And he's right, by the way. And I love that he sees that. So he's most attracted to the freedom that I've created through. Through business and through the way that we've chosen to live.

[Interviewer]

And then what didn't he like.

[Ken]

Well, I had. He. He was hesitant to tell me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, why was he hesitant?

[Ken]

I think that the way I interpret it, and I'm only guessing, right, because he didn't tell me exactly. But I imagine that as a kid, that's probably a hard thing to tell your dad.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Ken]

Hey, here's what I don't like about you. He's like, I'd rather avoid that fight. I'd rather not piss him off. Maybe if I tell him this, he'll. He'll. He'll remember this and, like, punish me for it somehow I'd imagine that's what going through his brain. And I tried to create as much safety for him to say it. So I kind of leaned into a couple of things that I thought he might say. I said, I'm guessing that maybe when you look at mom and I. And by the way, what I'm about to say next is well documented on my podcast and many others, is that the most challenging thing I have experienced in my life over the last two decades is my marriage. And that's not a poke at my wife. It means that our traumas, our wounds, our belief systems have activated each other's. And so because we are forward, outspoken, you know, pretty, like, vibrant people, we are not two, you know, introverts, like, passing in the hallway quietly. We are pretty fiery people. And as a result of that, that creates a fiery situation that he's seen. So what I said was, I'm betting that you're looking at my, you know, mom and I saying, I don't know if I would want to replicate what looks like a very intense relationship. And he kind of laughed. And I said, so maybe it's that. But I also don't want to gaslight my son.

Right.

I don't want to gaslight my kids. I would like to say things that I believe are true. And I think a lot of parents do gaslight their kids, hey, how are you? I'm fine. And they know. They know you're not. And so what you're telling them is, don't trust your compass. Don't trust your internal guidance system. Your body actually told you that dad wasn't okay, my mom wasn't okay, or the two of them weren't okay together. And then the parent. Cause they don't want to involve the kid in the problem goes, we're great. Everything's fine. And you're basically saying, don't trust yourself. You read the room right. But don't trust yourself.

[Interviewer]

But don't you think, as men, we have the tendency to do that in every circle of our life?

[Ken]

Not just with our kids, for sure.

[Interviewer]

Even our spouse.

[Ken]

Yeah. And there's a. And the beautiful part of that, Matt, is that I think that comes from a protection piece. You're like, I'm protecting you from this reality. I'm protecting you from the truth. I'm protecting you. So I'm just going to stiffen up my spine and drive my way through this and not have to involve you in it. And at times, I believe that is a good move. I don't think you have to dump all of your inner thoughts on other people. I don't think you need to involve your kids and everything. I think there is a healthy situation here that needs like a real check in to say, what is the right amount, what's the right balance? And I think if you trust that and you equally give both sides of, like, handle it on my own or share it. And here's a beautiful question, by the way, on what I'm. What we're talking about now. This theme came up in a conversation with one of my members yesterday who's extremely wise and has such great emotional intelligence. He said, to what degree do I involve others in my, in my healing? It's a beautiful question because sometimes the answer is, contain yourself, sit on the couch, talk to God, put your hand on your heart, ask yourself what you think. You don't have to say everything out loud. You don't write like you can just hold it. And on the other one, you don't have to hold it all. Yeah, you know, say it out loud. Talk to your kids, talk to your wife, talk to your buddies. It's a very challenging place to know what to say, how much to say, what to reveal. That's what we're all wrestling with.

[Sam]

I learned probably 15 years ago that the, the, the definition that I put on authentic manhood is a man that lives by principles, not emotions, you could say principles or values. And so we always go back to what are our values? What are our values? What's most important to us? And let's make decisions in alignment with those values. We may feel one way, but that's not indicative of our values. And so just living a princ based life has come into this, come to help us, come to our rescue more ways than one. Whether it's my relationship with Jana and the things that we've walked through as entrepreneurs and being married, or the things that we've used to raise our kids, the, the things we've done that have guided the relationships with other people in our family. It always goes back to what's our core values and what's most important to us, and let's make decisions that are in alignment with that.

[Interviewer]

And when you're talking to your kid, you're going through this, right? Are you communicating to him like, hey, first let's go to our core values. Hey, let's go back to our core values. Are you just intuitively leading through your core values? Like, are these conversations you're having very

[Sam]

upfront, very direct, very, very explanatory, like what are your core values? And look, let's face it, we don't have a creed in our house, although I have a desire to have one. You know, we talk about family constitutions. I love the idea of having that. But doing the work as a family to get that has felt heavy, especially because I am always intentional about the things that we do otherwise. So sometimes my family, like, needs a break from my intensity. So we don't have core values minimized to just three or four for each one of our kids or for our family. But in the heat of a moment or the conversation or circumstance, we're going to ask the question, what's most important? What is the value here that we want to live into and abide by? Let's call that to mind and then play the tape forward on how this decision plays out. If we go this way versus that way, and which way honors that value the most, and that'll be the path that we go. And we're very, very intentional. My wife might say that I use too many words in some of those circumstances because we're that intentional.

[Interviewer]

And she thinks you use too many words just because you're making sure you're clear.

[Sam]

Yeah. And she just wants to make the decision. She just wants to decide. We don't have to talk about why we're deciding. Let's just decide.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And you want to know the intention behind it? You want to know the why?

[Sam]

Because I want to teach.

[Interviewer]

You want to teach?

[Sam]

I want to teach. I want to exp. Why behind the what?

[Interviewer]

How did you discover that that resonated so much with you? Like, where did you get that clarity for you in your life and your purpose and your mission?

[Sam]

I've been on this mission my whole life. I've been on this mission my whole life, and I've been a learner and a student forever. The first book I ever read was in maybe 10th grade at a book fair. It was John C. Maxwell becoming a person of influence. And then from that book, I read something, maybe it was a blog or something back then from Tony Robbins, and it just lit a fire. It just resonated with me in a real way. And so I've been exposed to or put myself in these conferences, classes, masterminds, books, online courses, blogs, whatever it is. And I would tell you that two real big influences. One, being in childcare next year will make the 25th year that I've been a child care owner, believe it or not. And from the moment that I bought my first school, I asked myself the question how would I know if I were doing a great job of being a child care provider? And that sent me down this path of early childhood growth and development and childhood psychology. Early childhood psychology, right. And then the other sort of arena was my faith. And growing up in the church and being a part of the Christian organization or the Christian faith denomination, learning scripture and learning those principles and looking back at the way that I was raised and how I felt as a kid versus the vision of who I wanted to become. I've always known that I wanted to be somebody someday and had an idea of what that person would look like as a husband, as a dad, as a business owner. And so with that clear vision, it kind of drove me to go learn and to seek other people that have been here, done this before me to figure out what it is that they did, and I'll just emulate it. And I think through those conversations, through those educational courses, I've learned child development psychology, scripture. Right. All those things. And I think that they've just sort of aligned where it feels good and it feels right to be value based and not emotionally based. And then I've just taken that ran with it. And even recently, as Baylor is 17 years old and we are parenting him, I had this realization that my identity as a dad with Baylor is rooted in him being much younger version than who he is right now.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And I put myself in the shoes of a 17 year old in the way I felt when I was 17. I can promise you, I felt like I knew it all. And what I realized in that is that forever I lived in faith that these principles and the way I was living my life would turn out and give me the family that I always dreamed of having. Yeah, we're far enough along to where I know for sure it did. And so the lesson learned is that all along the way, I probably didn't need to worry as much as I did. Yeah, like, the things that I've done have led to exactly where I wanted to be. And yet I could have went back and done those same things with less worry.

[Ken]

I'd been journaling to my daughter for 13 years at that time, and my son. And that's why I heck, one of our friends, Daniel Ramsey, was a big impetus for why I launched that product. We were on the 2016 international trip in Vietnam, and I was sharing with Ramsey because I'm like, dude, you got young kids, you've got to do this. And he said, ken, you should really do something with that. That's a really damn good Idea. You should get that out so the rest of the world, so more people can do it. And I just kept getting signals like that's what caused me to do it. Yes. It wasn't just a random idea. It was something that I was doing. And frankly, I'd shared it with hundreds of people over the years that had started doing it in some form or fashion, whether it was in a physical journal or some type of, you know, digital journal that they're using. But lots of people are doing it. Lots of people are still doing it today. And I. You'll never regret it.

[Interviewer]

Did you do it in physical form for your daughter or digital?

[Ken]

I've done physical a few times. More like if I'm traveling and I'm unplugged, then I'll use a physical journal to write my notes and things to give it. But I wanted the format that I gift to be digital just because I can put photos and videos and audio files and things that I can't do in physical.

[Interviewer]

Right. So your daughter turns, I think it was 18 when you gave it to her, right?

[Ken]

Yeah, she. When she graduated high school, it was my gift to her.

[Interviewer]

And she had no idea you had been doing it?

[Ken]

No. So it was interesting. At that time, my older kids did not know. Now, of course, all my younger kid knows that I journal, he could care less. But they didn't know, and we're still running the company. When I gave it to her and I had cameras set up, it's actually recording. You can go on my YouTube and watch it. It's a beautiful thing. The day I gave it to her, it was special.

[Interviewer]

Does she still talk about it? Yeah.

[Ken]

Oh, yeah. Well. Oh, my God, I love our relationship. She, you know, she was just sharing with me this weekend. She was home for the weekend and we went to a concert, went to the rodeo. And she was like, dad, she goes, I so admire your development path that you've been on and how much you work on yourself, because I know how hard that is. And she's like, but seeing you do it makes me okay to do it on my own. And, you know, she goes to her own therapist and she goes, just. She's studying to be a child therapist, actually. And she's like, you know, just talking about this stuff is not easy. And I, yeah, I get it. But, yes, and she still reads her journal. The platform I switched to was one called Day One, which was amazing. It's owned by WordPress, so it's got lots of capital behind it, and I think it'll Be around forever. And so with day one, it was really cool. I can just literally share that journal with her. And so I still update for my older kids. Probably once a quarter, I'll write something, and she's going on family vacations or something. I'll write a recap or synopsis on that and put it in their journals. So, yeah, Grace still looks at it, and every once in a while, she'll snap a screenshot of one and send it to me that she's reading.

[Interviewer]

That's so cool. How many entries do you think you gifted her?

[Ken]

A little over 300.

[Interviewer]

Little over 300. So it's not like a daily practice. It's not this heavy thing that you have to do every day. It's kind of as the moments pop up and as the memories are made.

[Ken]

Yeah, it was. The cadence I tried to hit was once a month, and I'm probably over once a month. But there would be months where life was just hard and I'd forget about it, or I'd just be too focused on life. And. And so I wouldn't write for two or three months, but on average. And there'd be months where I wrote three or four times in a month. So, yeah, on average, I think it was right around 300 entries.

[Interviewer]

And what I hear you saying is our kids learn more from our actions than they do from our words. Like, she's watched you work on yourself, lean into the personal development side, and she's witnessed that which is also ultimately given her permission to do the same. So you're in this hardest day of your life where you're having to call all of your investors. How did you show up for your family and your kids in that moment to demonstrate to them how to handle hard times?

[Ken]

Not great. If I can be real, we'd be transparent about that. And what I meant by not great, I went through a pretty dark period when that happened, even though every one of those people told me, ken, it's fine. We're okay. Internally, I carried that weight on me. I felt like I let every one of my customers down that had believed in me. I let every one of my investors down. I let myself down, my wife, my family. And at the time, I had a lot of struggles going on with my son, who then was probably 17 years old. 16. 17 years old. And so from 14 to probably 17, we were going through a lot of just. Yeah. Teenage struggles. And now looking back, you can say, oh, yeah, that was just a little struggle period. But when you're in it, you don't know how it's going to turn out. Like, for me, it turned out great. It turned out fine. But it could have gone the other way. I could have lost my son to drugs. I could have lost him to a dwi. I could have lost him to, you know, a. A lot of things. And I was worried and then shut down the business. And I went through, you know, six, ten months of real dark depression. You know, financial struggle, mental struggle, emotional struggle. I. I mean, I was mapping out my demise.

[Interviewer]

How did you get out of it?

[Ken]

I leaned on the people closest to me in my world. And this is really important. It was. I had deep conversations with people in the networks I'm a part of and go bundance and front row dads. And there's some people I trusted a lot. And I was really sharing the struggles I was having with my son. And one guy in particular, he was listening to what I was telling him. He said. He asked me about my son. He said, look, does your son have adhd? I said, yeah, but that's not the point. What I'm telling you, he's drinking, he's using drugs, he's sleeping, he's, like, not responding. And you're not listening to me. He said, no, I am listening to you. He said, what I'm telling you is I've struggled with ADHD my whole life. And untreated adhd, especially in teenagers, will show up as anxiety and depression. So a lot of times that will show up as anxiety and depression. And with anxiety and depression, oftentimes we'll go to alcohol to numb what's happening. And I was like, oh, this is an interesting perspective. So from there, we took Knox to a clinic to get assessed for adhd. This was happening right about the time he's graduating high school. So I'd been going through this for several years, and he's graduating high school. We get him during the summer of between high school and college, we give him the diagnosis, get him prescribed some medication. He ends up going through two or three different medications, trying to figure out what's right once he gets the right medication. Night and day, really night and day. And all of a sudden, he's calling me, he's engaged, he's got, you know, just deep conversations. Hey, dad, did you know this? I'm like, where has the sun been? I mean, it was the most beautiful thing. He graduates college in three years, cum laude, just does outstanding. And so to get back to me, how did that help me? So I saw that change in him, and I thought, well, maybe I need something like that. Maybe I need ADHD meds. And so I actually went to the Amen clinics. They do brain scans. They've done hundreds of thousands of brain scan scans across the country. And I went and had my brain scanned. I was like, something's wrong. I was like, I'm. I've never been depressed in my life. I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I feel like life is not worth it. Something's wrong. And so I went and had these brain scans and thinking this would be my path to go get ADHD drugs. And the lady looks at my scan and said, you know, yes, I see signs of that in you, but I don't think you need ADHD meds, but you need some supplements because you're lacking, Gaba, you're lacking. She gave me four or five things that I was lacking that she could see from my brain scans and recommended some supplements to me that put me on like a year long journey of really dialing in my supplements. Everything was just better.

[Interviewer]

It's almost like your body shut down. Like, it was like you were so beaten that your body just said, we're gonna stop making these things. And you just went into a dark place. Not intentionally, but like, your body just said, we don't know how to cope with this stress or this anxiety or this. This feeling of sadness or emptiness, so we're just gonna shut down.

[Ken]

I don't know exactly how it happened, but that's what it felt like. And it was. I had never had those feelings before. I've always been an optimist of man. Things are going to work. You know me, I'm super optimist, and I was not at all optimistic at that time. But I can tell you, it's not like you take something that's like, you're going to go take Adderall. You can feel, okay, I've got this feeling. I take probably 15 supplements a day now. Take some in the morning, some in the afternoon, some in the evening, and I can't feel anything. I just feel normal. And that's beautiful. I wake up, I feel refreshed, I'm normal. And so that's the biggest thing I can recommend to people. If you're feeling like that is number one, lean on your network. That was so important to have people that believed in me. I'd post messages to different threads and people would immediately reach out, DM me, hey, call me. Or they'd be calling me, just checking in on me, which is good because I had a plan, man, I had the plan and no one would have known.

[Interviewer]

How did you not lose your wife in this whole process, man?

[Ken]

She's a saint. She is absolutely a saint. And she was and is so good to me, so supportive of me. And yeah, I had a great relationship with her through this, but it was a dark period for me and which was scary for her. I mean, that's most thing. I was this rock in our marriage and the strength of our marriage, and here I am just with a dark cloud over me. Like, things are terrible and that's not who I am. So I'm just blessed that she was with me through the whole thing. So she went with me to Amen Clinic. She was there helping. Yeah. And listening. She's like, what supplements? And what's cool is that as she watches me go through my journey, you know, she is constantly on her. So now you look, she's got all these supplements she's taken, and she's working with a health advisor and doing all these things. And I love the influence that we have over those in our proximity that

[Interviewer]

are watching what we're doing, but with our actions, not with our words, not yet.

[Ken]

It's with our actions.

[Interviewer]

Because if you would have told her, take these supplements, she'd been like, shut up.

[Ken]

Go fly a guy.

[Interviewer]

Shut up, dude.

[Ken]

Don't tell me what to do.

[Interviewer]

But when you show, don't tell. Just show people. Like, that's the true form of leadership, is just, I'm going to go down this path. You don't have to watch me. But you're not. You're going to be forced to watch me because I'm just going to do it every single day. And then as people see you transition and you evolve and you morph, they go, well, that would be pretty cool to feel or to see or to do. And what's also fascinating to me is most people would have quit after the failed app. They would have said, okay, I'm just going to go back to commercial real estate. Go back to the transactional world. But you didn't quit. So how did you find the way to give yourself permission to then transition into the Laundromat space, which is still working with other people's capital, working with your own capital and risking it all for something you truly believe in. But it's still a risk,

[Ken]

Sam.