← The Matt King Show
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- [00:04]
A
So the first question I have for you is there's so many people that do marathons. Ultramarathons now is the big thing. I mean, these last man standing backyard races are epic. What do you think the biggest mistake people make before they go and do a marathon or an ultra is like, what, what do people miss when they go to start doing these things?
- [00:22]
B
So, I mean, from my standpoint, I come from the nutrition lens, so typically what I'll see is just that inadequate fueling leading up to the event. You know, a lot of people start to focus on, you know, what do they need to have during the event because they know they're going to be out there for 8, 10, 24 hours sometimes. So they, you know, like, all right, I need these gels or these drink mixes. But then they start to neglect that, like, day to day piece while they're training. You know, the three, four weeks out where recovery becomes super important. And then, you know, they're not eating enough, uh, typically carbohydrates and not making the small adjustments to their diet where, you know, we don't want to have too many total calories. So we have to lower our protein intake just a little bit, increase our carbohydrate intake and max. Maximize that recovery time that we have as training starts to taper off. You know, as explained, it's like, you never want to show up to a road trip in your car with an empty gas tank. Your body's the same way. So it's like, how can we top off our fuel storage, make sure everyone and make sure you're healthy. Joints, ligaments feel good and you can hit the ground running with your kind of laid out game plan for the race day at least. So I tend that's usually what most people come to me for.
- [01:36]
A
Yeah, well, what's interesting is, you know, like, there's a real side of nutrition where, you know, using your analogy of the gas tank. Right. If you haven't been running on those kinds of fuels and you try to all of a sudden do gels the day of the marathon or the day of the ultra, your stomach might not like it. Yeah, I mean, like, there's some people that have some serious issues.
- [01:54]
B
Oh, yeah? Yeah. I, I work with a handful of athletes that are just completely new to the sport. I mean, I mean, even yourself, right. Like, you've delved in headfirst and, you know, trying to get you to try to eat things on the bike is a new experience. And we have to teach our body. It's called, we Call it training the gut in the nutrition world, but we essentially have to train our gut on how to digest and how to absorb the, um. And really optimize the. The little blood flow we do have to the gut while exercising. And so, yeah, like, showing up on race day, like, the number one thing, at least I tell people, is, like, never try anything new on race day because it tends to end pretty poorly. Um, there's a few athletes out there that have, you know, an iron gut and they can stomach a quesadilla followed by a mountain dew and be fine. But, I mean, me personally, it's like, I'm doing the same thing year after year with, like, small adjustments, because I. I know it works. And then I kind of have my athletes start to build that repertoire for themselves as well.
- [02:50]
A
Yeah. The first marathon I ever ran was the San Antonio Marathon, and we were just, like, leaving the corrals, and you're in those corrals for, like, 30, 45 minutes. I mean, it's a long time. And there was a lady in front of me that was, like, hammering gels, and I was like, it's like six in the morning, seven in the morning. I'm like, that's a bold move. But, like, she must know what she's doing. We weren't even a mile in, and she literally, like, shit threw her yoga pants. And, like, I was like, I'm never touching a gel the rest of my life. Now I've. I've gotten a little bit more used to them. You've convinced me to start trying some of these gels, but I saw it firsthand, like, what happens if you don't actually prepare your body and then you start to introduce new stuff. Yeah, it just. It just doesn't work.
- [03:30]
B
Yeah.
- [03:30]
A
And, you know, for. For people to have some context. I called you, I think it was about five and a half months ago. It was just under six months ago. And I'm like, hey, man, you came. Highly referred to me by Rob, who's the crew chief of this whole thing. He said his girlfriend knows you, and we need to hire you to be my coach. And you're like, yeah, okay. What are you doing? I'm like, well, I want to ride my bike from Mexico to Canada. Like, cool. How much cycling have you done? And that's, I think, when the conversation got interesting. So from your perspective, like, take me back to that call five and a half months ago when I called you and we had that first zoom call, like, what were your real thoughts? Not like, you. You've Seen me in action now, so maybe it's adjusted. But, like, what was your real thought? And like, what did you tell your wife?
- [04:11]
B
Um, so I, I will say my initial thought was not even pertaining to the ride itself because you followed up that you were riding across the country with you were gonna do this ultra without any training in like four weeks. And I was like, all right, this dude's gonna injure himself at the ultra and not be able to do the ride. Um, and so honestly, that was like the first thing I told my wife. I was like, all right, this guy wants to ride across country, but get this, he wants to run a hundred miles in like four weeks and not even train for it. Um, so I was a little nervous for that portion. Um, but I knew, you know, partially from that, that kind of mentality of like, oh, this guy's like, kind of crazy. But, you know, that's what it takes to be an endurance athlete. Yeah. At that level of distance at least. And so, you know, when it came to the biking portion, I was like, well, if, if he has the energy and the right mindset to be able to get on his bike and know that he has to ride it day after day, it's going to be X amount of miles, X amount of days. Um, then, you know, we can, we can get anyone there. Um, you know, baseline fitness definitely helps, which you had.
- [05:16]
A
Yeah.
- [05:17]
B
Um, but being able to just spend the hours on the bike, like, it becomes more of a mental game. Um, so, like, that was my only concern was like, all right, can he put in a, you know, eight hour trainer session? Which, you know, for those that don't know, can be very boring and it's hard to distract yourself for that long. But like, those are the days where we start to see like, through the weeds of like, oh, this person's got what it takes to continue to build. Because, you know, right across the country is like no small feat by anyone's standard. Whether you're new or you've been doing this a long time, but it ultimately comes down to that volume side. And so now we've seen, we're there five months down the road, we're there that you've been able to start really hammering down those miles. And like, the past few weeks have been pretty big for you, which has been great to see, but kind of comes back to your first question and it's like, well, you're, you know, you're hitting nutrition off the bike too, which allows you to do, you know, three back to back seven hour days. We're going to do a couple of ten hour days here coming up.
- [06:16]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I think the hardest part for me is when I made the commitment, I knew I was going to have to train like a good amount, but I didn't really understand what a 21 hour training block during the week really looked like. Like I didn't, I didn't really play through it. And I remember the first time I talked to you, I was like, you can stack whatever you want during the week. Don't mess with my weekends. Because you know, a lot of people that are doing these kinds of things, like it's either their full time job or it's like pretty close to their full time job. I'm like, yeah, by the way, I'm running a bunch of companies by the way. I have a family with three young kids and I just don't want them to suffer from this whole thing.
- [06:50]
B
Yeah.
- [06:51]
A
And I think really what I didn't understand is what, six hours, four hours? Four hours, back to back to back days. Not just means for you physically.
- [07:00]
B
Yeah.
- [07:00]
A
Not just means like what it is mentally because like most of my training has been inside, which is nice because you're not facing the elements, but you don't have any time off. Like if you stop pedaling, that trainer you've programmed is like, spin faster, spin faster, spin faster. But then you've got to distract yourself like you said. And it's just really been an interesting journey, but it's been really comforting knowing like the guy in my corner programming that training peaks every single week when I look at it, which is never fun to look at, by the way, but I'm like, this guy has done this. Like you haven't necessarily maybe ridden this exact route or ridden across the country, but you've prepared yourself for the hard thing, the races, the ultras, like all that crazy stuff. Walk me through, like how you got into this world of endurance sports and cycling and running and doing all this crazy stuff.
- [07:48]
B
Yeah, for sure. So it's, for me, it's been a pretty long, long time in the world of endurance. Started off as, you know, kind of the basic track cross country kid in high school. Super slow, like very slow. And my mom would always be like,
- [08:04]
A
oh, like, why don't you, you know,
- [08:06]
B
run with, you know, my buddy that was always winning the race. He's like, don't just run with him. Like, you'll get second. I'm like, mom, it doesn't work like that.
- [08:12]
A
I'd love to.
- [08:13]
B
So I started to really like value the hard work that it took to be an endurance athlete with just the shorter races. And I had an older brother, I have an older brother that's like super into fitness and was kind of in the beginning phases at CrossFit. So I started to really get into fitness and nutrition and how they all overlapped and went to college for dietetics just to continue to pursue that passion for nutrition and the intersection of sport. And through that time I raced what they call draft legal triathlon, which is kind of like the Olympic pipeline for triathletes, if you will. Um, it's a very long journey, but most of them start when they're like 12 or 13 and by the time they're 25, 30, they're you know, either at the top or they're doing longer course stuff. And so I continued to follow that through college race, collegiate triathlon, did a bunch of running through that time. And then finally by the time I got to my master's program in Colorado springs in like 2022, I think it was 21 maybe. I did half Ironman and I was like, cool. I checked all these boxes of like speed goals and times that I wanted to hit. I was like, what's next? And so this is right around like the time that gravel cycling was starting to get pretty big in the US and so started to transition to some more, like off road cycling specifically, and joined a cycling team based out of Denver and started to just put all of my, you know, 20 hours a week of triathlon training into just cycling. And you can imagine if you take focus from three sports and put em into one, you start to get better pretty quickly. So I started to, you know, progress through the ranks of cycling through mostly racing in Colorado and a few races throughout this the country and just, yeah, continue to build to those ranks and have really enjoyed the focus on just one sport and you know, whether it's on the road racing or gravel or mountain bike, like it's become my kind of new passion, if you will, over the past 4ish years of just bike racing. Um, and yeah, I mean it's one of those things that you can do for your whole life and it's nice kind of from a low impact side of things and you can kind of step away a little bit, you can come back to it. It's, you know the saying of it's, you know, it's like riding a bike. Like it's true. Like you come back a year later, your, your fitness might be a little lower, but you can get back after it still.
- [10:28]
A
What do you enjoy most about cycling? Like, you love it. Like, you would just, if you had a free Saturday, you'd be out on the bike, on the road or on gravel. Like, what do you like most about it?
- [10:39]
B
You know, I, I do really enjoy kind of the, the escape you can get. You know, growing up running, it's like, all right, if I go for an hour run, I might only cover, you know, seven, eight miles. Like that's not a ton of ground. But you go out for an hour ride, like, I'm going to cover 20 plus miles. And you get into the mountains, like, I live in Colorado and so get out to a nice fire road and all of a sudden you're in the middle of nowhere for the next, you know, four or five hours and just taken in that scenery around you. And all my friends are in the world of cycling, so it's fun to call them up and just be like, hey, let's go have a mountain day and spend the day on the bike. Like that's, you know, like a good form of like meditation and just hanging out with buddies by still staying fit.
- [11:20]
A
So for you, it's almost like golfing. Like some people would say to their buddies, hey, let's go golfing. And you're just like, hey, let's go cycling. Let's go bike.
- [11:25]
B
Absolutely. Or we all speak the same language of like, hey, I got eight hours in the calendar for Saturday. Do you want to go and climb 10,000ft? And we're like, yeah, sounds like a good time.
- [11:35]
A
That's crazy. And as you look at where you go from here, I mean, you've been an incredible coach, like an incredible advocate in my corner. I mean, I told Rob the other day, I'm like, the good news is, is most of my training I've done fasted. So once we actually start to fuel properly while we're doing the actual bike riding, I'm going to be dynamite. Like this week, I think you had me at a six hour day on Wednesday and I was like, man, I better like bring the right fuel. And I had the right fuel for five of the six hours and I felt so good, like so much better. So you've been an incredible advocate, not just on the biking side, but on the nutrition side. You know, what's next for you. I know when we had first talked you were thinking about maybe the Olympics, but you knew age might be a thing. Like they like to go after the 16, 17 year old kids. Like, what, what are you going to do from here?
- [12:18]
B
Yeah, I mean, right now one of my big things is for me personally is like focusing on that, like, well rounded fitness. So, you know, I'll still get on the bike and I still train, you know, between 10 to 15 hours a week on the bike. But you know, running, spending time in the gym and then I really have a pretty big passion, I'd say, for helping others. And you know, I get that through coaching. So whether it's nutrition, you know, or coaching their cycling or, you know, in your case, it's like, all right, how are we going to just in general prep for this endurance event? I really enjoy that. And so, you know, continuing to pursue that as, you know, a passion of mine, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, I don't personally have to be competing at the highest level, but if I have an athlete that has a goal, you know, similar to yours, where it's like, all right, you're not just doing it to ride. Like, you have a what behind the why. And you know, whether it's, you know, from a charitable, charitable side of things or I do have an athlete that wants to pursue the highest level. Like, both of those are super fulfilling to me personally.
- [13:17]
A
Yeah. And then like for you, you've checked all the boxes on speed and all these things. Like you've done races, professional races, gotten paid for it, been sponsored. Like, do you have any big crazy goals ahead of you that you haven't checked off, like hiking Everest or doing something crazy? Like, do you have something that's kind of itching at you?
- [13:37]
B
You know, in the immediate future, it's, there's a 214000 foot peaks right outside my kind of door. So planning to go run those in a sequential route just for the fun of it, you know, and that's a kind of a, you know, not necessarily an FKT or anything like that, but just a good challenge. And then on, you know, on the cycling front, you know, it's, it's hard because it's. Yeah, once I've, you know, I'm not going to say, you know, I'm the best cyclist in the world. You know, like, I've checked a lot of personal boxes that have felt really good. But, you know, maybe, you know, one of these days I'll go back and see if, you know, I can go, you know, sub seven at Leadville, for example, is a huge, huge thing for a lot of people. So, you know, last time and the first time I did it was like 7:15, 7:18. So I was like, pretty Close to that time.
- [14:20]
A
How far is that?
- [14:20]
B
Uh, it's a hundred mile race at all, above 10,000ft for the most part.
- [14:25]
A
And how much climbing during it?
- [14:26]
B
Think 11,000ft of climbing and a hundred miles is.
- [14:30]
A
Is brutal.
- [14:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty brutal. It's fun day. It's a. It's a fast day. It's a fast day.
- [14:35]
A
Um, and you were at what, 7:15?
- [14:36]
B
You said seven, yeah, 7:15. 7:18. Somewhere in there.
- [14:39]
A
And what does the winner get?
- [14:41]
B
The winner goes nowadays, like sub six hours, really, which is just wild. So, like, it's one of those races I would do like, from like a personal objective, like. Sure. Like I might place in my age group, which is fun and exciting, but it's more of like a, you know, a marathon goal where it's usually time oriented.
- [14:56]
A
Right.
- [14:56]
B
And so for me it'd be like, oh, cool. I went like sub 7. I joined this kind of more elite class of cyclists out there.
- [15:02]
A
Isn't there a Leadville run as well?
- [15:04]
B
There is, yeah. That's our crew chief, Rob, I think did it last year, and I think he was telling me in the car he's never going to do it again.
- [15:10]
A
Yeah. Would you do that?
- [15:12]
B
I might. But I've also told my wife if I was to do the 100 run, I would try to do what's called the Lead Man Challenge, which is basically all the Leadville events in one year. So you do the marathon, Leadville marathon at the end of June, and then you follow that up with either the 50 mountain bike or the 50 run in July. Beginning of July. Um, and then I believe it's the Hundred mountain bike. And then the day after the Hundred mountain bikes, there's a 10k run you gotta do. And then a week later you do the hundred run. You do all that in about two and a half months.
- [15:45]
A
Holy cow.
- [15:46]
B
So it's like a lot of training and. But like, if I'm already training for the hundred, I might as well do all the other ones.
- [15:51]
A
Well, and because biking, you've done so much training on the biking, it wouldn't. It wouldn't be easy to get into that kind of biking shape. But you could do it relatively quickly versus the running would probably take a little bit more effort.
- [16:04]
B
Yeah, yeah. You got to build up the. The durability.
- [16:06]
A
How many people have done that? I mean, is it a lot or not? It's.
- [16:09]
B
I would say, I think there's usually anywhere between like 12 to like 20 people that do it each year. Yeah, man.
- [16:15]
A
Sounds like something I should add to my list. Honestly, that's insane.
- [16:18]
B
I know someone that lives there.
- [16:19]
A
That's crazy. I mean, what does your wife say about all of this? What does she think with you wanting to go do this stuff? Does she get on board and does she sign up for this kind of stuff, or is it kind of like, drag her along?
- [16:29]
B
Yeah. When we first met, she was just in the triathlon marathons, like, really enjoyed doing those. And then she met me, and she's like, oh, no, this is, like, a different level, and this guy's kind of crazy. Um, but she's, like, very supportive of whatever it is I want to do because, you know, there's been days when, you know, training for these races that I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be gone for, you know, 10, 12 hours on the bike today. Like, see it at night. And, you know, it's great because she is an event, has all of her own hobbies. She's really. She's a great artist, and so she spends a lot of time doing art when, you know, I might be out riding my bike. And she has her own fleet of bikes as well, though. So, like, she'll go out and we'll go hit the trails together. She loves to trail run, so we'll take the dog out and go trail running. So we do a lot of it together. And then if it's, like, one of my, like, more crazy ideas or, like, longer days, she's like, peace out. I'm going to go have fun doing something else.
- [17:19]
A
Yeah, I'm going to paint and maybe
- [17:20]
B
go for a walk. Yeah. Yeah.
- [17:21]
A
So she's got it in her DNA a little bit, too. Like, she. She's wired to do some of the crazy stuff.
- [17:26]
B
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [17:27]
A
As you look at this bike ride we're about to do, starting on May 27, what do you think the biggest Roadblocker obstacle will be for us?
- [17:37]
B
You know, the first one that really comes to mind is just like, the. That many hours day after day in the saddle can really take a toll on the butt. You know, like, you can train a lot, you can put in a lot of miles each week, but it's hard to replicate, you know, seven, eight hours a day for 15 days. You know, I always tell people, it's like, you know, you have to season your butt. You got to get it used to this. So that's kind of like my first initial concern. And then, you know, I reached out earlier this week to start collecting some of your, like, body composition information, so we can really Dial in, like, all right, how many grams of carbs do you need every single day during the ride as well as after the ride? And then, you know, protein and fat as well. Because if we start to miss on that nutrition early on, it's going to make the back half of that ride super miserable, just because you're always going to be trying to play catch up. Um, so it's like these smaller things. It's not even, like, riding the bike, like, physically. I know you're capable. I'm capable of riding the bike every day. It's just these smaller pieces that takes a whole team to make it so you can execute it well.
- [18:44]
A
Yeah, I think I totally downplayed the nutrition side of the marathons I did. And the 29, 029 events I did. Even the 100 mile, I mean, you just. You can't take the nutrition side of it lightly. And I think people listening to this that are training for a marathon or training for the ultra, like, should really focus on the nutrition side almost as equally as they focus on the actual training for the event side of it. Because it is an like, a science. Like, I mean, it is. The people that are winning these races, the people that are doing these consistently are like, how many grams of carbs per hour? How many grams of sodium per hour? Like, they can tell you to the number, what they're doing across the board. If somebody's listening to this, what's a good resource for them to start to think about this kind of stuff? I mean, obviously they can reach out to you. Yeah, but is there a podcast? Is there a website? Like, where do you take my stats that I gave you and then go calculate, you know, what we need to be eating?
- [19:38]
B
Yeah. So, you know, I do. I'm a huge podcast guy. Like, I love to be able to kind of listen and learn while I'm multitasking or, like, training. And so there's a handful of different shows that I like to listen. Most of them are more, like, scientifically backed. So it kind of gets through some of the fluff that's out there.
- [19:55]
A
And.
- [19:56]
B
And then, you know, from continuing to learn for yourself, like, outside of podcasts, like, I think really trying to work with either a coach or a dietitian like myself is what it takes to kind of get that next level. Because the thing I tell about everyone I talk to about nutrition, it's like, all right, nutrition is difficult because everyone eats, so everyone has an opinion.
- [20:18]
A
Yeah.
- [20:18]
B
So everyone's going to tell you what they think is right, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the other thing about it is that it is science and it's never the same for every single person. There's a lot of like blanket calculations out there that we can use but you know I'm going to use a calculation for you that I'd use it myself. But some of the inputs in that are going to be completely different just based on you know, how much energy we're expending throughout the day and you know what our body composition goals are. Like are we looking to put on muscle or are we looking just to go fast? And so the other piece of that is like when you're, when you're training as much as you are and getting ready for this ride, like being able to track a little bit of your diet to know that you're getting enough is like kind of the, the next level. Because if we just estimate what we're trying to eat, like typically we're under eating when we're doing these 20 plus hour weeks and that can be, you know, detrimental to your performance increases. So you know, tracking like the simple some like my fitness pal, like super entry level but just input in your foods, you can weigh them, tell you exactly what you got there. Um, but yeah, I would say that take it to that next step is like really trying to seek out help. Whether it's just like a one time getting ready for your race or it's like all right, these are the things I've been dealing with. And it's like more of like a weekly or monthly call check ins to make sure we're staying on track.
- [21:33]
A
Yeah, because when you had me do the six hour this week after I was done, I mean to give people context, like I started riding at 3:30 in the morning. So I was done at 9:30, like most of the world's not even up. And I was like, oh this feels great. So Holly had to go run some errands and I was like, hey, while you're out, can you grab me McDonald's? And I told my wife, I'm like oh my God, I did six hours, I'm eating McDonald's. Like because I was just starving and I love fries. I was like, oh those fries would be so good as soon as I ate that McDonald's. Now granted it was a small cheeseburger and fries. That's was like an immediate crash. Like I could have laid on the floor and taken a nap all day. So I remember looking at Holly from my team who's coming on the ride with us And I was like, we cannot eat McDonald's during the day because I will not be able to continue pedaling. And so there's, like, different foods that I guess give you energy, but then there's others that will have a fast spike and then immediate crash on the backside. And it's just a game to play with, you know, which gives me which.
- [22:27]
B
Right, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's like the. It's like the glycemic index that you're referring to is, like, how it affects our blood glucose. And, like, part of your crash is more likely due to just lack of fueling. And your body's like, all right, I can take a nap now. I'm not dying.
- [22:41]
A
I'm all right.
- [22:42]
B
But, you know, on the ride, you're right. Like, it. All these sports nutrition products are great and they work excellent, but trying to slam, you know, that much sugar, essentially, day after day, starts to get exhausting. So we figure out what are some other, you know, carbohydrate rich options that are going to foot the bill and, like, make sure that you're still getting fuel. And, you know, I crewed and did some nutrition for an event called Race across the West a handful of years ago. And, like, we were on day two of this 900 mile ride, and people are like, I don't want any more, you know, gummies. Like, give me those cold roasted potatoes we have in the van. I'm just gonna eat those. And, like, it also works. It's like a slower burning carb, but it's, you know, it really helps with cutting through that sweetness. You know, I don't know if you've ever had a. Gone into your kids a Halloween candy and like, oh, yeah, next day you're like, oh, my God, I feel terrible.
- [23:30]
A
Well, that's how. That's how I feel already on on some of this stuff. I mean, the first training camp we did was back to back 105 mile days. Well, 105, 103. And by, like, midway through day one, they gave me, like, another pancake with Oreos and, like, another Rice Krispie. And I'm like, dude, I need real food. Like, I can't eat this anymore. And you just start to, like, see what your palette will accept, but then also what your body responds to. And my body was just like, dude, as much as it sounds good to eat candy all day every day, like, my. I just can't do this. And so, literally, for what we're about to do now, training camp two, which is you and I are gonna ride 170 tomorrow and then 170 Tuesday. Allegedly. Hopefully we'll see. Um, I literally did some of those roasted potatoes for us because I remember you told me, like, boil the potatoes, douse them in salt, put them in a bag, and they're like a great snack cold. So I was like, my wife's like, what are you doing? I'm like, coach Joey said, potatoes. Like, that's what we got to do.
- [24:23]
B
Yeah. Potatoes and root beer.
- [24:24]
A
Potatoes and root beer. Yeah, I know you got me on a root beer kick now. I, like, haven't had root beer in forever. And I asked Holly, I'm like, do we ask Joey what he needs? She's like, he's super simple. He just loves craft root beer. I'm like, I haven't had root beer in forever. So we got like the not your father's root beer for you, so you can hit the craft root beer. It's not going to be like Colorado level good, but it'll be decent to get the job done as you, as you look forward to, like, all of the ultras that have come up. The, the BPN Last man standing thing that really seems to have kicked off this like, backyard ultra craze in the world. Do you see the world moving more and more like humans moving more and more away from the marathon and more into these big ultra type events? Or do you think the marathon will still be like a stand for most humans to be? Like, that's the hardest thing I've done.
- [25:07]
B
I honestly think, yeah, that like marathon distance will at least probably in my lifetime be like the, the kind of goal that most people set. Just because you start to look at these ultras and, you know, it, it takes the right kind of crazy to want to do something like that. And the nice thing about like, you know, that the last band, the BPN one that just happened, like, it was an insane event, right? Like, but we had a buddy out there that I was like, yeah, he's a, He's a big CrossFit guy. And I was like, oh, cool to see him hit 50 miles. And he hit like 115 or like 150 miles. Like, he was one of the top 10 guys left. And I was like, this is insane. So it's, it is interesting to see the shift because, like, trying to bite off, you know, a marathon in four mile chunks, like, much more obtainable. So, you know, maybe the, the trail culture continues to grow. But yeah, I think the road marathon is just still so dominant and it's so much more. I guess, if you'd say beginner friendly. Right. Like, anyone can put on a pair of shoes and run out their door. Yeah. But trying to train for 100 miles is.
- [26:07]
A
Would you do one of those Last man Standing things?
- [26:09]
B
Definitely, yeah.
- [26:10]
A
Thinking about it already.
- [26:12]
B
Yeah. The BPN one really kind of stirred some interest in me, man.
- [26:16]
A
The BPN one, I was, like, glued to my phone.
- [26:19]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [26:20]
A
And it happened last year, and I knew it was happening because it was here in Austin, and I had some friends that tried to get in, didn't get in. So I was, like, somewhat aware of it last year, but it wasn't really the craze it was this year. And, I mean, weather impacted it last year, too. So it was fun to go back and watch the video, like, to see how bad it was, but to watch it in real time this year. And then when Mike was in the wheelchair and his story starts building and, like, all these stories start building as it. As it, like, whittled down and down and down. I mean, the guy that just blows me away is. Is the older gentleman from. I believe he's Ohio. Harvey or something.
- [26:52]
B
Like Harvey Lewis, the dude.
- [26:56]
A
The dude ran hundreds of miles. Didn't, you know, didn't win, but still crushed it. Flew home and ran home from the airport. He runs to work every single day. And so he's just, like, landed from the bpn. Yeah. I got a commute home, and he's just, like, running with his backpack.
- [27:14]
B
Yeah, no, he's wild.
- [27:16]
A
Like, just wired differently as being.
- [27:19]
B
I've heard him on another podcast, Rich Roll, and he's talking about his daily commute. And, like, I think he even talked about, like, his nap that he would, like, work on, taking his, like, ultra race naps, like, during the day when he was, you know, kids were at lunch, pilot, go under the desk, take quick nap, you know, and run home. And I'm like, that's a different level of crazy. But it's. I admire it.
- [27:39]
A
I mean, I admire it, too. But I mean, he is like. Like I said, I'm like, you not only ran the Last Man Standing race.
- [27:46]
B
Yeah.
- [27:46]
A
You then got home and ran home from the airport. Now, his run wasn't like a block or a mile. Like, it was miles and miles and miles. I'm like, dude, you just ran hundreds of miles with zero sleep, essentially.
- [27:58]
B
Yeah.
- [27:59]
A
I mean, and that's, like, the craziest part is the recovery side of these things, like, whether it's just a marathon or whether it's these big ultras like, the recovery side is real.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah.
- [28:09]
A
For you, like, what's your go to on the recovery side? Is it ice bath, saunas, none of that stuff, and just chill and watch movies? Like, what do you do?
- [28:17]
B
Yeah, I mean, you're gonna hear me say it and I've already talked about it. But like, I lean into the nutrition still. Like, I'm a big proponent of recovery shakes. So whether you're using like a whey protein or using something that's like pre mixed already, like scratch labs, is a great recovery mix that's both carbs and protein. But essentially, like always whip up a smoothie with anywhere between 20 to 40 grams of protein and then throw in fruit, maybe a little bit of peanut butter, stuff like that to help boost up the carb intake. And you know, that's just going to help replenish that lean, that glycogen we've lost from our muscles, help get the lean muscle mass and recovery part started. But you know, foam rolling, I think I've probably told you this every time we've talked. It's like, make sure you're foam rolling your calves or quads and your hamstrings because that's going to keep the knees happy, at least in the cycling world. And so that's the other big piece I like to use. And then what I have available though, like an ice bath or like Norma Tech compression boots, like those types of things are kind of icing on the cake.
- [29:16]
A
Yeah, but you're just keeping it simple like you really believe and you've been preaching to me the whole time. If we dial in the nutrition, the body will do what it needs to do to recover and to perform when we're in the, in the moment.
- [29:27]
B
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, you think about, you know, kind of look back like our ancestors, like the Tarahumara tribes, like, you know, they don't have anything fancy that allows them to exercise day after day the way that they do. Or like, you know, think about like hiking through the woods or rucking, like anything like that. Like all you have is nutrition and then your body staying healthy. And so, I mean, there's something to be said there. But now we have all this great technology at our fingertips that allow us, you know, massage guns, ice baths, you know, the contrast therapy, like, it's all great, but yeah, keep it simple.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah, it's like you said, it's the icing on the cake, but at the end of the day, you're, you're like really driving home. It's the basics it's like, for this, for me, it's really been time in the saddle, smooth pedal strokes. We've been working on RPMs a little bit and nutrition, and I think I've gotten two of the four dialed in pretty good. The nutrition is lagging behind slightly. The RPMs is hit or miss, man. Like, some days I am on right on target with where you want me, and other days I'm just like, that thing keeps flashing. Spin faster, spin faster. I'm just like, minimize screen. I'm just going to ignore this because you, you even told me you're like, you know, you're, you've been doing a good pace and everything's good, but like, if we can get you spinning faster, you're gonna have to put forward less energy and like, long. It'll help you in the long run. But it feels so weird to go that fast.
- [30:52]
B
Yeah, I guess like a new cyclist,
- [30:55]
A
something to get used to.
- [30:56]
B
Yeah.
- [30:57]
A
For people that are listening to this going like, man, I've been a runner forever. My knees hurt, my ankles hurt. You know, as, as a cycling sort of enthusiast that you are, what would you tell them to do to like, get started in the sport? Because I did it all wrong. Like, I bought a bike on Craigslist, never got fitted for the seat, never got fitted for the bike until we finally bought the new bike. What would you tell somebody to do if they wanted to get into this sport?
- [31:21]
B
Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is like, figuring out like, where your, your interests lie. Nine times out of ten, I find that most people that are transitioning from running or just looking to get into the sport, like, they aren't exactly sure what type of terrain they want to ride, which can determine the type of bike you need. So it's like nine times out of ten, it's like, all right, let's get you a gravel bike because it's very versatile. You can go on gravel roads, you can go on pavement, you can go on single track if you work on your handling skills. But then getting the right size bike, getting the right, you know, handlebar with stem length saddles like that takes a little bit of dialing in. So like, you know, going to your local bike shop is really going to be the easiest way to make sure you know you're getting the best setup for you. And, you know, they, they might try to sell you a bike. Sure. But they're also going to tell you everything you need, size wise. And you might be able to go do some research, find a good deal on like, Facebook Craigslist. If you're not ready to dive in fully to buy that, you know, two, $3,000 bike, like, it's, you know, a slight barrier to entry for sure. But I mean, it's. Once you get on a bike and you start to get used to the butt pain that is initial, I don't
- [32:26]
A
think you get used to it, man. I don't think there is.
- [32:29]
B
Things get used to that over time, you know, it's a, a great way to. Like I said, you can see so much more coming from the running world and less knee pain for sure.
- [32:37]
A
Yeah, I've noticed because I was never like a big runner, but I've ran like, I've always been like a two, three mile a day, kind of stay somewhat in shape runner. I've noticed that your mind can wander a little more on the bike too, because, like, I think you're covering more distance. But also for me, it's just like less of the aches and the pains with every single pound or every single impact of the pavement. It just feels a little bit less. And so I've really, what I've enjoyed most about the cycling is just like the ability, especially in the training camps, there was, there was moments where three four hour blocks went by like that, where your mind just kind of wanders. The sun's coming up, you know, you're just kind of enjoying it and taking it all in. But the thing that's blown me away the most is how much cars and vehicles hate cyclists. Like, I had no, no idea.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah.
- [33:28]
A
How ridiculous it is.
- [33:30]
B
Yeah.
- [33:30]
A
I mean, we had so many people beep at us and this was only in two days of training, like, so I can't imagine what's gonna happen to tomorrow Tuesday. But then also on the ride, we had one guy literally swerve at us.
- [33:42]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [33:43]
A
So for you and your friends, when you're out there riding on the road, how do you guys stay safe?
- [33:46]
B
Yeah, it's a, it's kind of a scary situation. You know, there's a lot of people that have just completely gone away from riding on the road to just mountain biking because you don't deal with cars typically. And then, you know, from a safety side of things for, like this ride, like one of the biggest things that we have the advantage of, if you will, is, you know, we'll have a follow vehicle. And so, you know, one thing we say is, you know, follow as close as you can to that cyclist because. And then that cyclist is going to ride as far to the right as they can. Because that way, if a car does swerve around the van, like, you're more than likely going to keep the cyclist safe.
- [34:17]
A
Right?
- [34:18]
B
But, I mean, living in Colorado, it's like, you know, cycling mecca of the US and it, it, it sucks to say, but, like, I have. I know a lot of people that have been hit and killed. Like, had a friend last year, driver, you know, on a flat, straight road, you know, hit him and drove away. And they found the driver, like, a few days later, but, you know, he died there. And so it's like, it's the. The true side of the road cycling. And so I'm, you know, always have that flashing rear light. There's some really good technology now that uses a radar system and can help detect cars coming up behind you. So at least you can, you know, kind of look back over your shoulder to see if they're getting over. And then, you know, lastly, it's like, if you are in a big group, like, most of the time, you're a little bit safer, right? But, I mean, you see all these videos coming out now of just drivers. Like, I mean, to be blunt, just being complete dickheads, like, just riding those cyclists all into the ditch, like they refuse to get over. But, you know, at the end of the day, there's, you know, you might get. And I, you know, I'll probably get comments for it, but, like, at the end of the day, it's like those bikes on the road are another vehicle. And everyone's like, well, they don't pay taxes. I'm like, well, they drive a car, they probably pay taxes. You know, they also are, you know, another human. It's like, that could be your son, that could be your nephew that you just tried to run off the road. And, you know, I have an uncle that. He's like, yeah, now that I know how much you ride, like, I look at cyclists way different on the road, knowing that that could be you. And there's a foundation out there that's called It Could Be Me. It's a Instagram and foundation, and then there's the White Line foundation, and they do a lot of advocacy for this type of stuff. But at the end of the day, it's, you know, you're. You're risking your life, honestly, every time
- [35:54]
A
you're on the road.
- [35:55]
B
And I tell my wife that, like, it's not to be taken lightly, like, coming to camp this week, and I'm like, hey, just, like, love you. Like, I'll be back in a couple of days, but it's you know.
- [36:04]
A
Yeah. No, I mean, that was another thing, like, when I set out on this mission, you know, again, partially because we have a trail vehicle the whole time, but, like, safety never crossed my mind. Like, I really didn't even want to wear a helmet. I think all the helmets look ridiculously stupid and are terribly uncomfortable, but that's a whole nother rant. But I. I was just, like, never really concerned about safety. I was like, maybe I'll hit a pothole. Maybe I'll flip over the handlebars. Like, maybe I'll forget to unclip. That's happened already, but I was never really worried about it. And then when we were out there for training camp one, and I literally had the trail vehicle with us, like, right behind me the whole time cars were swerving. And then there was one instance where a car did exactly what you said. They tried to go around the van, thinking that they could take a right turn in front of me and didn't realize how quickly I was moving. They had to slam on their brakes. They fishtailed the car behind them. Fishtail. Then it was like, all, like, right here, right next to me. And like you said, you know, they are just kind of like. It was like, where could you possibly be going that fast that you couldn't wait, like, 13 seconds for me to get through this intersection?
- [37:06]
B
Yeah.
- [37:07]
A
And. And I usually try to put myself in other people's shoes. I'm like, they could be racing to the hospital with, you know, trying to save somebody or, like, I don't know. I don't know what's going on in their day. Right. But it happened time and time again, and I was like, all right, people are just jerks. Like, they just don't like cyclists.
- [37:22]
B
Yeah, no, it's. It's tough. Like, I mean, like, our. One of our national champions in the country right now, like, just posted a video of him and his buddies riding in, I think, maybe Florida.
- [37:31]
A
La.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah, it was la. Yeah. And these cars are, like, trying to run him out of the bike lane.
- [37:35]
A
Yeah.
- [37:35]
B
And, I mean, one of the drivers got arrested and everything. And so it's like. I mean, that's the. We're in the world of cameras. So it's like, all right, well, these. I mean, as a cyclist, that's something else to consider having on your bike is like, hey, like, you can send this to the sheriff's office. You can send this to the, you know, troopers, whatever it may be. Um, but, yeah, it's. I try to think in the same mindset as you is like, yeah, maybe they're in a rush to get to X, Y, z. But at the same time, like, why are they driving six feet over the shoulder? Or, like, why'd you almost clip me with your mirror? Like, growing up in Iowa and riding in farm country was terrifying.
- [38:05]
A
Oh, I bet.
- [38:06]
B
Big trucks, big trailers, and no one getting narrow roads. Yeah, narrow roads. Right. Like Colorado. It's like, I can go on a mountain road and, you know, not see a car for, you know, five hours, which is great. But so I stay away from pavement a lot of the time when I'm training by myself.
- [38:20]
A
Yeah, it's. It was real. I mean, when I saw that video come out, because it really kind of went viral. I mean, and I believe the guy lives in Austin. Yeah. And so him and his buddies were out in l. A. Riding, and they had some fancy, like, 360 camera, so they were able to capture the whole thing. But, like, not only did that guy try to run him off the road, but then he, like, proceeded to come back and run them off again. And it was like, an ongoing thing where he, like, intentionally went out of his way to try to hit them.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah.
- [38:45]
A
And then, like, proceeded, I believe, to actually, like, say, like, let's go fight, and let's go handle this. Like grown men or something. It's like, wait, hold on, Dud. You just tried to hit me with your car.
- [38:54]
B
Yeah.
- [38:55]
A
Like, what's going on? You don't know me. I don't know you. I was minding my own business in the bike lane, and you just. It's wild.
- [39:03]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I will say, like, and it's gonna happen anywhere. Right. But, like, with this ride, we'll definitely notice as we progress through the country, different parts of the country, different parts of states where drivers are, like, super in tune. And, like, all you can tell, they're watching for cyclists and they respect it. And you'll see other places where they're like, ask for you. I'm not gonna get over luck.
- [39:24]
A
Yeah.
- [39:24]
B
And it's. Yeah, it's the brutal truth.
- [39:27]
A
So, yeah, I told the team because we have the chicken coop here at the ranch. I told the team, like, let's bring eggs, and I'll just carry, like, a fanny pack of eggs and just start rifling eggs. Then I'm like, well, that kind of just defeats the whole purpose of trying to be kind. Like, that's being a jerk in return. But it's just. I mean, literally, we were. It was probably day two of the training camp. The first block, and it couldn't have been 7:45 in the morning. Like, I mean, it was super early and it was still dark. Ish. And this, like, truck went around the trail, vehicle laying on the horn, and then, like, swerved directly at me. And I was like, what, what are you trying to do? Like, are you trying to scare me or. Like, it's scary enough being on this damn bike. I don't really know how to use this thing. Yeah, we learned. I didn't know how to shift. It's like, I got enough to worry about. Don't hit me. Like, I'm good. I'm good. So as we embark on the ride, obviously you've been an incredibly crucial piece of this. What do you think you. What do you think I will discover about cycling from this journey? And what do you hope that the content we do is able to portray to the world about what cycling truly is?
- [40:32]
B
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that you're probably gonna learn is, like, you'll finish the ride and you're like, I'm not touching that bike for the next five years. And then a week will go by and you're like, all right, what's next? You'll rest up and you'll be like, that was. I learned all this and it was this great experience. And you'll look for that next, like, cycling itch.
- [40:51]
A
Yeah.
- [40:51]
B
And if it's not an event, you know, it might just be you just getting out and riding more outside and exploring. So I'm excited for that. Cause then I'll just get you out to Colorado and we'll come around. But, you know, from a cycling community side of things, you know, it's. It's just another opportunity for, you know, awareness and like, the safety side, you know, the more people I feel like, that hear the message and, like, see these examples of, like, poor on road behavior from, you know, it happens both cyclists and cars. Right. But, like, just trying to set a good example and then spread that message, I think is huge. And then, you know, honestly, like, one of the other big pieces along the way for, you know, the ride itself is, you know, the giving back to the community side. And that's, I think, you know, something that is, you know, super impactful for this event. It's like, you're not just riding across the country. Like, you're. You're looking for ways to make it impactful along each town that you may see or each family along the way. And so that's, I think, a different way to really delve into this world of cycling. It doesn't have to be race oriented. It doesn't have to be a sanctioned event. It can just be simply you using your resources to be able to help that kid, that maybe they need a new bike. Right. You can help them get that new bike so they can maybe go on this journey one day. Or, you know, like a youth program that needs. Like I saw you guys last camp did for one of the youth programs, you got a bunch of, like, new sporting equipment. So, like, those are the things, I think, that are even more impactful than just, you know, riding your bike. Like, anyone can do it, but it's like, what are you doing with it?
- [42:30]
A
Yeah. I think for me, what I've really learned from this is we, for some reason, as humans, are programmed that, like, you can only do something like this, or you can only go out and run if you're, like, training for a race. Like, every single person that I've come across that knows about the rides, like, when's the race? Wins the race.
- [42:45]
B
Yeah.
- [42:45]
A
Like, it's just how we're wired as humans. And. And I think, like, what I really want people to understand is if you want to do something, just make something up. Like, it doesn't have to be the 5K on Thanksgiving. It doesn't have to be the Chicago marathon or the London Marathon. Like, if you want to run 24 miles, just, like, go out and run 24 miles. Technology exists where you can map a route, plant water bottles along the way, and, like, just go do your own thing. Like, if you want to do the full marathon, do the 26. Like, just if you want to do something, just do it. I think for some reason, and I've been guilty of this for most of my life too, but we believe it has to be, like, somebody else's big thing. And we're gonna sign up for that, and we're gonna put the flag in the ground for that. And what I've really learned from this is, like, make your own adventure. Like, choose your own adventure. And that's what I've been telling, you know, everybody that's gonna come and ride with us is we've got, like, 21 people signed up, and they're like, I don't want to do 150 miles. And I just keep telling people, like, this isn't about 150. This is about you. Like, you choose your own adventure. I've got guys that are coming that said, I will not touch the bike. I will be in the RV drinking vodka sodas and I'll cheer you on. And I've got guys who have been training.
- [43:48]
B
Yeah.
- [43:49]
A
Their butts off, literally asking me, where can I track your trainings so that I can see your pace and everything you're doing? So they're trying to, like, almost complete that. Yeah. I'm like. He's like, what's your Strava account? I'm like, I don't have a Strava. He's like, well, now can I track you? I'm like, you can track me. Like, I'm inside, but, I mean, just choose your own adventure. Like, if you want to go do something, just. Just start. And I think, you know, when I was really reflecting back before this conversation, to look at where I started in this journey to. To where we are now, and knowing that we still have another four weeks leading up to the ride and we'll make up more ground even then. It's like, if you want to do something, just start. I think comparison is the thief of joy. And for the first couple of weeks, I was comparing me as a cyclist to the people I saw online or me as a cyclist to you. And I was like, man, he's doing 20 miles an hour. Like, I can't even crack 15. Like, oh, he's doing this many revolutions per minute. I can't even crack 65. And, like, I lost some of my excitement for it because of the comparison. And it wasn't until I finally recognized, like, this is my journey. Like, nobody else's journey. This is my journey. And it doesn't matter where I start. It just matters that I stay committed and disciplined. It's like, really what I want people to know is if you want to run a marathon, like, just walk around the block.
- [45:03]
B
Yeah.
- [45:03]
A
It doesn't matter where you're at. Just start.
- [45:05]
B
Yeah.
- [45:06]
A
And I think that's true of life, too, but especially with athletics. Like, it's so easy to look at the guy that just, what, did the London Marathon in 1 hour, 59 minutes and 30 seconds.
- [45:15]
B
Yeah.
- [45:16]
A
But I, like, literally told my dad. I was like, somebody finished, like, 18 seconds after him and took second place. I mean, there was another guy, sub 2, that took second place.
- [45:24]
B
No one knows who it is.
- [45:25]
A
No. And if you spend your life comparing, you're just going to be robbed of all the joy and all the beauty of it.
- [45:30]
B
Yeah.
- [45:30]
A
For people listening to this, that want to talk to you about nutrition, talk to you about their ultra, their marathon, whatever they're training for, ask you to help coach them, where can they find you?
- [45:38]
B
Yeah. I mean, you can always reach out to me on Instagram. I don't post a ton, but I'm active there, which is Joey Underscore Hassett, I believe. And then you can shoot me an email and probably drop my email and,
- [45:53]
A
yeah, we'll put in the show notes.
- [45:54]
B
Yeah. But, yeah, I'm always happy just to talk and, you know, field questions. Like I said, I do a lot of coaching. I coach your company based out of Boulder and do a lot of my cycling through there. And then something like Matt's journey here, it's like, all right, we need. We need all hands on deck. This isn't just coaching. This isn't just nutrition. This is, like, endurance planning. And so, you know, that's another ballpark we can delve into as well. But, yeah, you can just reach out, happy to answer questions or, you know, help guide you in that journey, because I know it's a. There's a lot out there with the AI training softwares and nutrition information. And I think it's always nice to just have that. That coach. Personal feedback. And that's what all my athletes tell me is like, yeah, like, the reason I have you here so you can comment on my workouts and help make those small tweaks throughout the week to make it better for me.
- [46:45]
A
Yeah. And I think, honestly, like, to have somebody that's done it, like AI and all those stuff, like, it's incredible, but, like, AI has never ridden their bike 100 miles. Like, you've done it. You know, how to handle the flat tires, how to handle the spare tire kits, how to handle the fueling, what your body's gonna do with this or this. Like, having that human that's actually experienced that I think is the most valuable thing. Yeah. So we get done with the ride June 8th. What should I do next?
- [47:13]
B
Sounds like you need to train for, like, the lead man challenge for next year. Sounds pretty interesting, but I don't know. There's so many great, like, and it's like you said, like, it doesn't have to be an event. You know, there are tons of great events throughout the country, but, you know, there's so many other cool, like, you know, achievements and challenges. Like, last year, our big one was hike Machu Picchu. And now in a few years, we want to do Kilimanjaro. So it's like, no one's tracking that. There's so many people that have done it, but to us, it's like a. You know, it's like something fun to work towards.
- [47:40]
A
Well, look, man, I really appreciate you being here. I'm excited to learn how to shift. I'm excited to learn how to wax my chain because I've been using grease and apparently that slows you down.
- [47:48]
B
Slow too much friction.
- [47:50]
A
I'm incredibly grateful to have you in, in my corner on this entire journey. You've been an amazing asset to, to me and entire team as we embark on this journey and I'm excited to, to get out on the road with you and ride a little bit. Hear how bad my form is, hear how bad my shifting is, get some critiques, get some criticisms. And you know, I'm, I'm really grateful for your help. I don't think with, with, without you, I don't think I could have done it.
- [48:16]
B
Appreciate that.
- [48:17]
A
I still think I can run 100 miles without training, which is one of the things I will try to do still. But I did, I know I couldn't do this without having you in the corner and, and you helping me train. So thank you so much.
- [48:26]
B
No, yeah, it's been a joy. I've, I've loved embarking on this journey with you and I like said at the beginning it's like this is a crazy idea but if you have a crazy mind and you're, you know, hard headed and ready to get it done, like you can do it and that's. Those are the fun athletes to work with. You know, it's cool to see the results. Just continue to stack week after week and yeah, this camp's going to be fun and the ride's going to be a really good time.
- [48:50]
A
And here's the thing, if we do it right, I think we're actually going to get an fkt. We're going to get the fastest known time.
- [48:54]
B
Well, we got to go even faster than.
- [48:57]
A
Yeah, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you.
- [48:59]
B
Thanks, man.