The Matt Walsh Show (Daily Wire Backstage: "Debate Me, Bro.")

Date: August 24, 2023
Host: Matt Walsh with Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, Candace Owens (remote segment)

Episode Overview

This lively "Backstage" episode brings Daily Wire’s top personalities—Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, with a field report from Candace Owens—together for a raucous, in-depth roundtable as they preview and debate the first 2024 GOP primary debate. The panel cuts through political theater to analyze core dynamics of the Republican primary, Trump’s dominance, DeSantis’s struggles, media narratives, Biden’s performance on Maui, the psychology profession’s ideological drift, and (in typically irreverent style) an extended riff on conspiracy theories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Predictions and Dynamics of the GOP Debate

Time: 00:34–12:12

• Debate Framing: The crew agree the debate will mostly be about the various non-Trump candidates attacking Ron DeSantis, who’s fallen dramatically in the polls (down to ~14–15%). Trump, notably, is not participating.
• Ben Shapiro’s Analysis:

  “Basically, it's gonna be all against DeSantis, and the only question is whether DeSantis can survive… The only way to defeat Trump, realistically, are two possibilities… either make the case that Trump underperformed, which the base doesn't accept, or the ‘electability’ case—that Trump lost in 2020.” (03:08)

  • Candidates are wary of admitting Trump lost, undermining the "electability" line.
• Klavan’s Take:

  “Everything DeSantis says is true and effective, but he's not charming. Everything Vivek says is charming but complete crap... This seems to me that Senator Scott is the guy because he's absolutely charming and saying absolutely nothing.” (05:53)

  • Charisma vs. substance is repeatedly highlighted.
• Candace Owens from Milwaukee:

  “I think the person that everyone wants to watch tonight is Vivek, because he kind of snuck up from behind. ... He's hustled harder than the rest of them. He's doing every podcast... He's running this like a startup.” (08:01)

  • She notes DeSantis seems over-managed and in need of a recalibration.
• Electoral Realignment:

  “The names we're not saying… Tim Scott, Nikki Haley... Where are those points going to go... I would assume if they're with Nikki Haley and Tim Scott, they're probably not going to go on the Trump ship.” (Candace, 10:12)

2. Trump’s Uniqueness, and the Emotional Center of Republican Politics

Time: 13:28–22:57

• Personality Over Performance:

  “DeSantis doing a thing is being treated exactly the same as Vivek saying a thing… Republican base doesn't vote for that anymore. Like, the idea of core competency as a requirement for the office went out with Trump.” (Ben, 13:29)

• Why Trump Resonates:

  “Trump... embodies the voice of the people. This is 60 years of culture war, of telling the American people they stink... and Trump, as far as I'm concerned, is a polite response to that.” (Klavan, 14:22)

• Substantive Comparison:

  “What differentiates Trump... are three big issues: Immigration, Trade, and War... On immigration, trade, and war, Trump was a break from both parties.” (Ben, 15:06)

• Shortcomings in Execution:

  “Did he advance the conservative agenda enough as president? I think there are...many legitimate objections to, for example, his Covid handling, his spending … But the thing that I most object to...is this intellectualization of Trump as a basket of issues. He was an impulse.” (Ben, 16:32)

• DeSantis’s Dilemma:

  “Competency is not a priority right now... There is no substitute for the giant orange middle finger. It is fun to listen.” (Ben, 20:32)

3. Strategy, Media, and the Future of the Primary

Time: 22:57–32:13

• Vivek vs. DeSantis – Media Savvy:

  “The reason that Vivek is doing well is because he goes into confrontational media spaces...DeSantis has to go into unfriendly spaces and he has to punch people.” (Ben, 22:57)

• Cultural Frustration:

  “We live in a democracy... and democracy has been about bread and circuses and about at least appealing to people on a basic level...” (Michael, 21:51)

• The Challenge of Running on Record:

  “He became famous...because the entire media made him the enemy, and he beat them up...he has avoided all confrontational media for the entirety of this campaign so far. You cannot do that.” (Ben, 22:57)

4. Comic Relief: Ben Shapiro Alien Conspiracy Segment

Time: 24:07–32:13

• In a satirical diversion, Matt Walsh presents a mockumentary arguing Ben Shapiro is an alien—a running inside joke referencing their previous debates about UFOs—underscoring the podcast’s ethos to combine serious and comedic content.
• Quote:

  “Does Ben Shapiro pretend to hate aliens because he is one?” (Walsh, 26:50)

• The panel jokes about Shapiro's otherworldly characteristics, debating whether he or Mike Pence is the more plausible 'alien' amongst candidates.

5. Candace Owens’ Docuseries Plug and Media Critique

Time: 33:32–37:17

• Candace’s upcoming documentary "Convicting a Murderer" is previewed, which she says corrects media omissions in "Making a Murderer."
• The group launches into a discussion about the dangers of media misrepresentation in real-life tragedies.

6. Biden, Maui Wildfire Disaster, and Media Double Standards

Time: 37:17–54:24

• Biden’s Maui Visit:

  “Biden finally gets guilted into flying into Maui ... decides to spend his time cracking jokes and falling asleep.” (Ben, 37:17)

  • Criticisms focus on Biden’s habit of making tragedies about himself and the lack of media coverage.
• Media Contrast:

  “I promise you, if this had happened in Florida, all you would get, morning till night, is Ron DeSantis is to blame for this.” (Ben, 50:17)

• Theories on the Fires:

  “There are three theories... Climate change, malfeasance by the energy company, or arson by radical environmentalists.” (Michael, 44:16)

  • The group generally leans toward government incompetence and bureaucratic paralysis.
• Government Accountability:

  “No one’s held accountable and... in this case, you’ve just got all these different...realms that...need to work together and...they just don’t. It completely breaks down.” (Walsh, 51:52)

• Double Standard & Political Consequence:

  “Maybe he [Biden] can get away with anything. Or maybe there will come a point where he can't. ...That's the hope for Republicans.” (Ben, 51:29)

7. “Conspiracy Theory” Game Segment

Time: 57:36–69:01

• The group plays a "Conspiracy Theory" card game, riffing on topics such as Michelle Obama’s gender, dinosaurs as dragons, Mark Zuckerberg as a reptilian, and Taylor Swift as a Satanist clone.
• Comic Highlights:

  “Michelle is obviously a man.” (Klavan, 59:58, tongue firmly in cheek)

  • The panel (partly tongue-in-cheek, partly serious) debates the validity of pop-culture and internet conspiracies.
• They lampoon media, pop culture, and themselves throughout.

8. Free Speech and Psychology: Jordan Peterson’s Fight in Canada

Time: 71:00–80:37

• Jordan Peterson’s Licensing Battle:

  “Ontario is threatening to take away Jordan’s psychology license...upheld the order that he go through a so-called social media re-education program.” (Michael, 71:27)

  • The hosts decry the ideological capture of psychology and dangers of compelled speech.
• On Modern Psychology:

  “A good psychologist is someone that has a good idea of what a human being is supposed to be.” (Matt, 79:30)

  • Ben: “As far as I’ve learned, no data supporting that simple talk therapy is worthwhile. It has to be combined with cognitive behavioral therapy.” (77:15)
• Philosophy vs. Therapy:

  "Psychology is not like medicine... When you say, 'I'm not functioning properly,' that requires some explication. ... That’s a philosophical question.” (Ben, 79:48)

  • The panel laments the loss of deeper meaning and maturity in therapy.

9. Wrap-Up: Trump, Tucker Carlson, and Debate Reflections

Time: 85:36–end

• Trump Skipping the Debate for Tucker Carlson:

  “It’s very smart for him to do it. On a moral level? Should he go to the debate? Of course. Does that matter one iota? Of course not.” (Ben, 86:05)

  • Panel agrees Trump will likely be the nominee, and Biden will likely dodge general election debates.
• Strategic Weaknesses:

  “The one argument that you could make that he should have debated is that Biden will not debate him. ...When Biden says he's not gonna debate now, Trump will have no leg to stand on.” (Matt, 87:12)

  • The segment raises unresolved strategic, moral, and emotional contradictions in both Trump’s and his supporters’ positions.
• On Indictments and Campaign Funds:

  “Every dime that's going into his campaign fund right now is going directly into his legal defense. ...Are you using that to target Joe Biden?” (Ben, 91:36)

  • The group underscores the intertwined fate of Trump, the party, and the limits of “owning the libs.”
• Core Riff:

  “That's the way Trump voters treat Donald Trump. It's obvious that strategically he shouldn't debate. It's obvious that morally he should.” (Klavan, 88:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the GOP field:

  “Chris Christie is a kamikaze... committed a murder-suicide against Marco Rubio in 2016.” (Ben, 05:28)

• On Biden’s empathy:

  “He is a pathological narcissist who cares only about himself. ...Every time Joe Biden runs into somebody who's experienced some sort of horrible tragedy... he immediately starts telling tales about how... he knows exactly what that's like.” (Ben, 41:05)

• On government & Maui:

  “Bureaucracy exists to not work. ...In this case, you've just got all these different... realms that...need to work together and...they just don't.” (Walsh, 51:52)

• On Trump and electoral reality:

  “There is no substitute for the giant orange middle finger. …Trump is fun. DeSantis is not.” (Ben, 20:32)

• On psychology:

  “The psychologist... this is why I'm so skeptical...the entire industry has been totally ideologically captured.” (Walsh, 75:38)

• On conspiratorial fun:

  “Taylor Swift is the clone of Xena Lavey” (Card, 67:13) ... “Yes. I've never heard that, but yes.” (Ben, 67:29)

Important Timestamps

• 00:34: Opening debate predictions and dynamic analysis.
• 03:08: Ben Shapiro presents two realistic strategies to defeat Trump.
• 10:12: Candace Owens on the overlooked candidates and where their support may go.
• 13:29: The “competency doesn't matter anymore” core argument.
• 22:57: On DeSantis needing to embrace unfriendly media engagements.
• 24:07: Alien conspiracy gag segment.
• 37:17: Maui fire disaster and Biden's response.
• 51:52: Walsh on bureaucratic failure in disaster response.
• 71:27: Segment on Jordan Peterson and free speech in psychology.
• 85:36: Trump/Tucker Carlson counter-programming and implications for debates/election.

Tone & Style

The show blends policy insight with sarcasm, rapid wit, and a performative “bromance” among the hosts. They freely alternate between serious, philosophical analysis and goofy, conspiratorial asides, always keeping a thread of cultural critique and resistance to the left.

Closing Takeaway

For those seeking sharp, unscripted conservative commentary, the episode provides both deep skepticism of political and media institutions and an unvarnished look at the tensions within the GOP. Behind the laughter and inside jokes, the panel’s underlying concern is the direction of America’s politics, culture wars, and the very frameworks—like psychology—in which those wars are waged.

This summary omits advertisements, musical plugs, and non-content interludes. For further detail, refer to provided timestamps in each section.