A Senior Bowl Primer With Executive Director Drew Fabianich. Plus, the Latest Intel on Trinidad Chambliss.

Summary

The McShay Show — “A Senior Bowl Primer With Executive Director Drew Fabianich. Plus, the Latest Intel on Trinidad Chambliss.”

Host: Todd McShay
Guests: Mitch (co-host) and Drew Fabianich (Executive Director of the Senior Bowl)
Date: January 22, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this detailed Senior Bowl primer, Todd McShay dives deep into the upcoming 2026 Senior Bowl with its new Executive Director, Drew Fabianich. The conversation is rich with insider draft intel, notably around the situation with Ole Miss quarterback Trinidad Chambliss, late roster changes, and analysis of top position groups heading into the NFL Draft. With storylines swirling about transfers, eligibility lawsuits, and the influence of agents, the episode offers an unfiltered look at both the drama and the substance underpinning this year’s showcase event in Mobile, Alabama.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trinidad Chambliss Eligibility Saga

• Recap of Situation: Trinidad Chambliss, Ole Miss quarterback and transfer from Division II Ferris State, is involved in an ongoing legal battle with the NCAA over a denied extra year of eligibility. His presence at the Senior Bowl is uncertain and heavily debated among NFL and college insiders.

• Legal Intrigue ([05:13]–[10:26]):

  • Chambliss has been denied an extra year at Ole Miss both verbally and in writing. He’s now suing the NCAA in Mississippi courts, represented by Tom Mars.
  • Todd’s sources are split: one thinks Chambliss will win his suit and play another year at Ole Miss, while another says the odds are slim (historically, only about 14 out of 40 similar lawsuits have succeeded).
  • The decision needs to happen quickly if Chambliss is to participate in the Senior Bowl (must arrive by Saturday/Sunday).

• Draft Implications ([10:27]–[13:29]):

  • Chambliss has traits drawing significant NFL intrigue—including mobility, intelligence, and processing—but could benefit from another year in the SEC.
  • If he’s at the Senior Bowl, the optics may impact his lawsuit—he’d appear to be moving on—which introduces another layer of complexity.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “It’s one part concern, one part intrigue, one part… it’s just a fascinating scenario for me.” —Todd McShay [09:52]
  • “If the reality is that’s no longer an option, then it’s time to move on and, and do your thing, kid, because you actually have a chance to move up some boards.” —Mitch [12:48]

---

2. Senior Bowl Player Announcements & Roster Movement

• Miami & Indiana Players Commit ([14:33]–[15:47], [42:17]–[47:04]):

  • McShay and Drew highlight that multiple Miami and Indiana players—just days removed from the national championship—are eagerly participating, signaling their competitiveness and passion for football.
  • Reuben Bain and Akeem Mesador from Miami are noted as possible top-10 and first-round picks, respectively, lauded for their effort and workload.
  • Indiana’s players are praised for their “warrior mentality,” a trait NFL evaluators crave.

• Impact of Participating at Senior Bowl:

  • Drew explains how participation can shift player draft stock, referencing last year’s Braeden Zabel, who jumped from projected 3rd round to 18th overall after showcasing himself in Mobile ([47:06]).

• Notable Quotes:

  • “This is the first part of the process. The draft starts in Mobile. That is no BS because they want to see you show up.” —Drew Fabianich [42:40]

---

3. Edge Rushers, Running Backs, and the 2026 Draft Class

• Edge Rusher Deep Dive ([15:47]–[19:47]):

  • Todd calls it a strong, if somewhat unspectacular, year for edge rushers—lacking a “Bosa brother,” but with intriguing depth.
  • Top prospects: David Bailey (Texas Tech), Reuben Bain (Miami), Keldrick Falk (Auburn), and Akeem Mesador (Miami).
  • Several under-the-radar names highlighted, including T.J. Parker (Clemson), Romello Height (Texas Tech), and Derek Moore (Mobile).

• Running Back Breakdown ([53:49]–[56:14]):

  • Mix of high-profile and “scratch-the-surface” players.
  • Standouts: Nicholas Singleton & Katron Allen (Penn State), Le'Veon Moss (Texas A&M), Jamari Taylor (Virgina by way of HBCU), Jaden Ott (Oklahoma), and others.
  • Drew admits to favoring “hair on fire” guys and large-bodied backs per Bill Parcells’ enduring NFL wisdom ([56:14]).

---

4. The Golden Era of Tight Ends

• Depth and Trends at Tight End ([22:40]–[27:44]):

  • Mitch raves about the “golden era” for tight ends, with a wave of talent entering the league in recent draft cycles and continuing this year.
  • Notable names: Brock Bowers, Trey McBride, Colson Loveland, Dalton Kincaid, Sam Laporta, Elijah Arroyo, Terrance Ferguson, and the ascending Kenyon Sadiq (Oregon).
  • Both hosts agree that the first round may see just one tight end, but rounds 2–4 will be loaded with NFL contributors—many with “move” or receiver-like profiles.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “We are in the golden era of tight ends, man.” —Mitch [22:40]
  • “It has turned into something different than we were watching Mark Bavaro with the Giants decades ago. These guys are playmakers.” —Mitch [25:54]

---

5. Drew Fabianich on the Senior Bowl’s Evolution

• Player Experience Improvements ([32:25]–[35:53]):

  • Drew restructured the Senior Bowl schedule (“I did this for the players”) so that interviews and evaluations would occur earlier, leaving players less mentally drained and more time for coaches to network.
  • GMs and coaches are returning in larger numbers, enhancing the event as a talent evaluation and job networking hub.

• NFL-College Pipeline Management ([49:48]–[50:47]):

  • Drew talks through the challenge of finding small-school prospects (like Delby Lemieux from Dartmouth) in the age of portal-driven Power Four (P4) consolidation.
  • Thanks to diligent scouting and word-of-mouth, players like Lemieux can earn their place in Mobile—and even switch positions (from tackle to center) for the right NFL projection.

---

6. Positional Previews and Under-the-Radar Players

• Quarterbacks:

  • Six confirmed, possibly up to eight—Garrett Nussmeier (LSU), Sawyer Robertson (Baylor), Diego Pavia (New Mexico St.), Luke Altmire (Illinois), Taylen Green (Arkansas), and Cole Payton (North Dakota St.).
  • Nussmeier is especially hyped for his resilience through injury and high ceiling ([36:48]).
  • “I knew I was gonna invite [Nussmeier] in August… I can’t unsee what I saw.” —Drew Fabianich [37:55]

• Cornerbacks:

  • Top prospects have size as a theme, with only two below 6'0".
  • Chris Johnson (San Diego State) receives special praise for versatility and instincts ([59:29]–[60:41]).
  • “He’s got a little bit of, you know, Richard Sherman kind of intuition when, you know, get the eyes back to on the hands.” —Drew Fabianich [60:12]

• Sleepers & Risers:

  • Malik Muhammad, Jacob Rodriguez, and especially Kyle Lewis (Pitt) penciled in as potential breakout names post-week.
  • Vinnie Anthony (Wisconsin) pegged as a likely underappreciated WR set to “pop” in practices.
  • Romello Height noted as a sudden-impact pass rusher if he can play at ~240 lbs ([68:18]).

---

7. Behind the Scenes: Agents & NFL Scouting Tension

• Biggest Challenge as Director:
  • Drew laments the noise agents create by relying on area scouts for grades, which may not reflect league consensus. This can lead to players being ill-advised on whether to participate in the Senior Bowl ([61:19]–[62:40]).
  • “If you’re not a top five pick, you should play in this damn game because you can make money, bottom line.” —Drew Fabianich [62:29]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Senior Bowl’s value:
  “If you’re the player, you’re the agent. Isn’t that a good business decision? Going from pick 15 to pick 10 is about six and a half million dollars.” —Drew Fabianich [46:30]

• On evaluating toughness and passion:
  “If you don’t love this game, an NFL locker room will eat your ass alive.” —Drew Fabianich [43:08]

• On the allure of the Senior Bowl for small-school guys:
  “The draft starts in Mobile. That is no BS.” —Drew Fabianich [42:40]

---

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [05:13] Chambliss eligibility situation and legal drama
• [10:27] NFL team QB needs and the drafting dynamic
• [14:33] Miami/Indiana Senior Bowl player announcements
• [15:47] Edge rusher class breakdown
• [22:40] Depth and evolution of the tight end position
• [32:25] Senior Bowl player interview & logistical changes
• [36:48] Senior Bowl quarterbacks preview with Drew
• [42:17] Reuben Bain, Indiana player mentality, and what scouts value
• [46:30] The business case for star players at Senior Bowl
• [53:49] Running back class preview
• [59:29] Chris Johnson and the big cornerback trend
• [65:58] Under-the-radar players to watch

---

Tone & Takeaways

• The mood is energetic, analytical, and irreverently honest—a trademark of McShay’s football coverage.
• The hosts blend deep scouting knowledge with personal anecdotes, making technical draft prep approachable.
• The show is a blend of football nerd-insider talk, real lessons about the NFL talent business, and engaging banter.
• If you’re a draft junkie, aspiring scout, or passionate college football fan, this episode is a goldmine of insights and Senior Bowl intrigue.
• Above all, the message: The NFL Draft process truly does start in Mobile, and 2026’s Senior Bowl is loaded with opportunity, drama, and high-stakes jockeying for both players and franchises.

Transcript

[Drew Fabianich]

Foreign.

[Todd McShay]

We've got a jam packed show for you today. We've got draft intel. I've had some sources talk to me about Trinidad Chambliss, the quarterback for Ole Miss. And I still don't know where we are on that one. We'll, we'll discuss. And finally, we got a mensch hot button we're going to talk to. Plus Drew Fabianich, the new executive director of the Senior bowl, stepping in for Jim Nagy, a close friend who took the general manager job at Oklahoma. He's going to join us and talk all things Senior bowl, which is just a few days away. You know what else is just a few days away? 91 to be exact. That's the 2026 NFL Draft. Meds, you good? I'm good, man. Tucker, roll that. I shared it before the national championship and I shared it the night of the national championship. And Drew Fabian, which is kind of a man of his word, he's delivered the the Senior Bulls on a heater today. Have you looked on social media? The McShay show is presented by FanDuel. Playoff mode is on and FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and offers to boost your winnings every game day. Don't note on any playoff action on FanDuel, download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com McShay that's FanDuel.com McShray to get started, must be 21 and older in present select states or 18 and older in present D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-678-97777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut, we got B. Scott Keante Scott. Oh, I mean Marel Bell.

[Mitch]

I mean, yeah, they, they bunch of.

[Todd McShay]

Guys that are coming in late. A lot of Miami announcements today. We'll, we'll wait to hear word on maybe a couple more from Indiana. But it's, it's, it's heartwarming. I told the story 2009, I was at the Senior Bowl. I didn't think there was a chance. Eleven, they're 12 and one USC was, it was the Pete Carroll golden era. But Pete Carroll's whole thing was compete your competition Wednesdays, I think it was. And, and just like it was madness. But that through that madness it created like this chaos and this cut, this, this great motivator of competition.

[Mitch]

Iron sharpens iron, right?

[Todd McShay]

Iron sharpens iron. And so I was. I'll never forget walking off that game day bus where we would hang out between practices, being like, I don't. I mean, I know they're on the roster, but I can't imagine that. Clay Matthews and Brian Cushing And Ray Malaluga, three first rounders who are 12 and one this season, just won the Rose Bowl. And meanwhile, that was like three weeks ago. And then there they go, walking right past the fence and I'm like, they're ready to go. And then the quote from Maou Luke is like, I just came here to get discovered.

[Sponsor Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Firehouse Subs who just dropped a game changing sandwich? The French dip. Literally one of my favorite sandwiches slash subs. Roast beef, caramelized onions, melty cheese, little freshly toasted garlic butter roll. And the warmth, savory au jus. I've been eating these forever, since I was living on the east coast in la. I think to me, this versus the cheesesteak, the French dip, no contest, way better. And I think it's really because of the au jus. I don't know anybody who doesn't like au jus. An elite game day sub. Fun to order, by the way, if you want it delivered because they usually put the au jus in the special little container you can pour it on. Knock yourself out. The French tip here for a limited time. I wish it was longer. Only at Firehouse Subs. Limited time at participating Firehouse Subs restaurants while supplies last.

[Todd McShay]

And so when you see this from players like Miami and from Indiana, it tells you a little bit about the DNA of these individuals. And also the programs that Kirk Signetti and Mario Cristobal, respectively are, are building at Indiana and Miami. So really cool to see some of those guys. I mean, the national championship was just a couple days ago, man, and they're like, yeah, football's being played, they're competing and I've been invited. Yeah, I'm in. Let's go. So it's going to be a fun week in Mobile next week. And by the way, travel is. Is pending right now. We might have to leave on Saturday. I know that gets you all worked up, but. But Marissa will handle it all for you. Don't worry about it. Got a big storm coming into the South. The south can't handle this.

[Mitch]

I'm worried. Yeah, I'm worried.

[Todd McShay]

I know you're always worried, but when you're worried, it means we're in a good place. So we've got, we've got the new executive director of The Senior Bowl, Drew Fabian, and she's going to join us, you know, at the end of the show and we'll, we'll ask him a whole bunch of questions. One thing I, I'm not going to specifically, I, I never want to compromise what's going on in the moment. Right. So I'm going to ask maybe do you have a couple spots open for some quarterbacks if they're to make a late decision to come? I can say this. And again, I'm not even going to ask him. I'm going to ask him, you know, is that still a possibility? He'll tell us yes or no. But I've talked to a couple different sources. This is interesting, Mitch, and I don't want to get into the legal jargon that was bit at me today. Actually early today. There's a lot going on in this Chambliss thing. Two different sources I spoke to had two very different opinions on what the outcome is going to have going to how, what's going to happen there. To remind everyone, Trinidad Chambliss coming off of the magical season at, at ole Miss, Division 2 player at Ferris State, handpicked by Lane Kiffin, comes in one, wins this well, takes over the starting job and doesn't relent. It has an unbelievable season. As the season progresses, we start to see more and more NFL traits out of him. Intelligence, fast processing, big time, arm drilling the ball. Could use a little bit of touch and some intermediate throws. Yes. But like the mobility, then towards the end of the season it's like, whoa, this guy's different. You know, the ability to.

[Mitch]

Mental toughness.

[Todd McShay]

Mental toughness. Had that Georgia fourth quarter meltdown, got a second crack at it and he was brilliant in the fourth quarter, not only in that game, but multiple games rising up draft boards. And so now he's in this predicament, right. He wants to go back to Ole Miss. And by the way, what's best for him long term in the NFL, even though the 2027 class could be the best quarterback class ever, is to go get another year of experience in the sec. So he got, apparently there was a verbal denial of his request for another year, then there was a written one. And so he technically has been denied his, his request to, of another year of eligibility. But he's now taking it to the court system in Mississippi and he's suing the ncaa. Tom Mars is his lawyer agent who's representing him. He and another gentleman from, from, from the state of Mississippi, a trial lawyer and they've put in On Friday they put in a, a lawsuit, filed it with the courts. And here's the tricky part and I was, I was given a lot of legalese today and I'm not going to try to replicate it. Okay. Essentially his argument is because it's not just about the money. And in fact what's weird about it is he, his lawyer is saying there's no NFL representative we've talked to and Talking about scouts, GMs, that's kind of thing that have said he's a first round pick. So with the second round and beyond pay payroll structure of a rookie contract, he's going to make X amount of dollars in a four year deal. He can make more money in one year at Ole Miss, but that's for whatever reason to the court is not nearly as impactful as you're robbing him of an opportunity to go have another year in the college environment, play for an Ole Miss team, special memories, you know, lead a team to sec. Like it's, it's interesting that all aside, I talked to one source who says, you know, it's starting to really look positive. You know, the lawyers he have that he has that are working with them and the court system being from the state of Mississippi, I think he's going to wind up getting this petition, he's going to get the extra year of eligibility. Another source I talked to said the clock's ticking. We're being told that we don't think it's going to go, that he's going to win this lawsuit of 40 in the last couple years that have gone through only 16, I want to say 14 or 6. I think 14 of the 40 that have, folks that have gone and, and sued the NCAA have won those lawsuits. So it means like 24, six have, have been won by the NCAA. But the interesting part is you gotta, you gotta be there on I think Sunday, Saturday or Sunday, a lot of, I think Saturday if you want to play in the, in the Senior bowl. And here we are on Thursday. So like, I don't know how this is going to play out, but it certainly is an extra layer of intrigue. And yeah, it's part, one part concern, one part intrigue, one part like, you know, I don't know, it's just a fascinating scenario for me. And then you look at the quarterback position this year and the teams that need quarterbacks and we all know those teams, right? The Raiders are sitting there too. And I'm not even talking about the first round. The Raiders are one of the teams.

[Drew Fabianich]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Obviously the jets, the Rams could be looking ahead for, for, you know, in 2027 for a quarterback trip, maybe get one. They have two first round picks. The Browns could be in the market, but maybe wouldn't take one. Maybe we'll wait till next 2027 to get one. Is Arizona in the market? Are there a bunch of other teams that in day two would be like, you know what, let's bring in another guy and let's see, let's see where we can get to before 2027 to know if we really need one. Okay, so there we are. You got any, Like, I don't, I don't know where else to go with it. I just wanted to pass on this information and I, I guess at the end of the day, it's still a cloud of unce. Certainty, but there are people out there who legitimately think he may be there in Mobile next week. And there are other people who are like, oh, he's going to be at Old Me. He's going to be at the Grove next year. Like, that's fast. I don't know that we've had anything quite like this before leading up to the Senior bowl, not that I can remember.

[Mitch]

And I think the problem for him is what's the image that he presents if he goes to the Senior bowl and how does it affect his lawsuit? And does the court look at that as, oh, he's already kind of moving on and he expects this and maybe they're not supposed to look at it that way.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know.

[Mitch]

That's. It's, it's uncharted waters, you know, can he go to the Senior bowl and then go back to Ole Miss? Is that a thing? It's, it's complicated. But that being said, I'm with you. This is the kind of prospect that could go to the Senior bowl and excel and really help himself. And that being said, if he doesn't do that and he comes out, he's really missed an opportunity. So this is tricky. And if he decides, I mean, he could legitimately.

[Todd McShay]

And I love Garrett Nussmeier, and I think Garrett Nussmeier is probably gonna have the best week of the quarterbacks. We'll see how it plays out. But he could legitimately go down there and be the best quarterback of the six quarterback prospects for the NFL. Like it.

[Mitch]

And win some people over.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

For the first time, the coaches, quarterback coaches, offensive coordinators, head coaches, first time that they get like a real. Not just watching on tv, like actually like get their hands on get their eyes on. Like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's wild. The timing of it all and what's at stake, you know, and how many organizations are, are really like keeping a close eye on this thing.

[Mitch]

And again, you just go back to the, the, the age of these young men and the decisions they have to make and all the directions they're being pulled in. It's, you know, it's great that they've created these opportunities for themselves and he's created this opportunity for himself, but man, it's just, it's freaking brutal. Like, am I doing the right thing? I mean, he knows what he wants to do. He clearly wants to go back to school and I think that's the right move in terms of his development. But you also have to deal with reality. And if the reality is that's no longer an option, then it's time to move on and, and do your thing, kid, because you actually have a chance to move up some boards. I, I, it's tough and I think it's unfair. I, I, I, I don't know what else to say about it. Like, it just seems unfair.

[Todd McShay]

No, I know. I just wanted to share that information to.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So that everyone else could be kind of in the know of what's, what's actually going on, which is, I'm not breaking news there, but there, there are people who are like, these aren't just people who are like, I went to Ole Miss. I'm really hopeful. Like, these are people who actually like are perimeter involved and have a lot of information and how different the, the outcome that they believe is going to happen is from, from one from another. I was really taken back by that. All right, another thing I want to touch on because I mentioned that the Senior bowl was on a social media heater today announcing name after name from the national championship game. A lot of the Miami guys today and I suspect source I'm, I'm very well in the know that we're going to hear a couple more names and maybe Indiana players as well. I'm in love with the fact that Reuben Bain, as I just talked about, is going to play there. I'm in love with the fact that Keonte Scott and everyone else from Miami but Ruben Bane and Akeem Messador.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Not only that they're both projected first rounders and yeah, there are some scouts who have a second on Bain and or second on macedore, but I think the league consensus, if you will, or the league, if you were to Throw all the grades in. They're both very probable first rounders. And honest to goodness, I think Bain could be a top 10 pick the way he played down the stretch for Miami. But it's not just where they projected. It's how many games they've played and then 16 and then how hard those suckers played. You know what I mean? It's not like, I don't know, they were two of the hardest playing players. I can, if you gave me, give me 10 guys you think were the heart, like played the hardest and like the mo, like snaps, effort, chasing. I would put those two guys on the list and they're like, yeah, give me my helmet back. Let me go. Give me a clean one so I can put all the other stickers on. But let's go.

[Mitch]

Miami's not rotating players like Tennessee was last year along their defensive front. Like, that's just not a thing for that Miami team, man. It's the games and then I don't have the snaps in front of me. But it's got to be a high number. I mean, those guys seem like they're never coming off the field. So rare.

[Todd McShay]

It is, but so I'm looking at that and it's like just by saying yes and showing up, I'm more in love with those guys. Right. And it brought me to thinking today and I want to touch on this. And I know you got something you're hot on too. After last year we talked about this edge class, and I'm not trying to compare them. We have a whole draft season to do this. But sometimes you wonder. All right, the running back class last year was so outstanding. It wasn't record setting, but it was pretty damn close. And I think it was six guys in the first three rounds. And then we saw just an avalanche of running backs, like 20, 19 or 20 guys come off the board day, day three. And a lot of those guys productive as rookies this year. But then this year you see kind of an attrition, like a bunch of guys left early. It's not the same. And a bunch of young backs in college football, maybe we'll have a great class a year from now in 27, the Edge class, which you could argue, a lot of people would argue outside of quarterback, most the highest positional value out there. And to see last year when we had Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Michael Williams, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce, all first rounders. Then even early into the second round, we had as a raku from bc, JTT from Ohio State, Nick Scorton Oladejo. Now, this year, I'm looking at this class and being like, all right, maybe there's not like that Miles Garrett or a Bosa brother or, you know, one of those guys. Right. We're looking at David Bailey from Texas Tech, Ruben bane, C&CN mobile. Keldrick Falk from Auburn, Akeem Messador from Miami. See you in Mobile.

[Mitch]

Is these your rankings?

[Todd McShay]

Nah. Sort of. Maybe. They're definitely not official. I. Honestly, I. I've just wrote down some notes and put. I put them and put on paper like that.

[Mitch]

Those are my rankings so far as you're rattling them off.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, those are my top four in that order. After that, it is. It is absolutely not my rankings. I just started jotting down names, but here's other names and a lot of them, and this is what I want to transition to. A lot of them are going to be in Mobile, man. And I love this. T.J. parker, Clemson. Our Mason Thomas, Oklahoma. I think he's nicked up, obviously, the injury at the end of the year, I don't know that he's gonna play, but he was invited and at one point I thought he was gonna try to play. Zion Young, Missouri Mobile. Cassius Howell, hand injury, not likely to play, not playing, but. But wanted to play and was invited and accepted and. But like, just couldn't do it and then had to kind of. It's just. And by the way, just. And we're. I get on my soapbox about this stuff. If you've got a legitimate injury and you play, you put a bunch of tape out there, you only get one shot at the combine and all that, and it's not worth going out there and risking re injury affecting your training. And most importantly for them is an individual putting tape out there against top competition where you don't feel like you're 100%. If you do it respectfully, call the people as a man, stand up, call the right people. That word gets passed from Drew Fabianish, the new executive director, to every one of the 32 teams. And there's a list, two lists. There's like a pros and cons list. On one side, you get the guys who handle their business like men. On the other side, you got guys who chose not to maybe. Maybe had someone call for him, maybe. You know what I mean?

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Or maybe the guys who showed up for a day and then took off or whatever it is. You find out about the character and the competition level and those sorts of things with. With all these postseason events. But anyway, Cassius Howe was one of those guys. Respectfully, injury not going to be able to play. Joshua Joseph's Derek Moore mobile coming out of.

[Mitch]

Keep, keep, keep an eye on Derek Moore.

[Todd McShay]

Derek Moore, he could have a big week.

[Mitch]

That's one of the. He's one of the guys I think might pop down there.

[Todd McShay]

Romella height, Romello height. The pass rusher extraordinaire opposite David Bailey. A little undersized, but the guy can flat out rush. So all of those guys more. And I'm not saying all those are going to be first and second, but a lot of them are the school edge class. My point is like, it's got some substance to it and I think next week is going to weed out some stuff too.

[Mitch]

I. I would like to know who has a second round grade on Bane and Messador. I would like to know. I would like to meet that I.

[Todd McShay]

I have in my head. I would like three different names of scouts I talked to this fall.

[Mitch]

I'd like to watch tape with them. I want to. I want to know what's going on there because what am I missing? You know, Like, I, I just. I mesador especially because it feels like he. Bane, I feel is. I think he's gonna go early, but with Messador, it seems like there's some debate about whether he is in the first or second. I've seen that. And then I watch a tape and I'm. I'm like this. There's this. This guy really. Edges go, man. This dude is a Tasmanian devil. I don't understand how you. You wouldn't take a chance on that in the first round.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I mean there's the age thing, I guess there's the. He's been banged up at times, but.

[Mitch]

When he's healthy, he's productive and he's violent and he's powerful and he's versatile. Like, I don't. I don't know, man. It screams first round pick to me.

[Todd McShay]

But this is an exciting group, you know?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And. And there's a. I don't know. I, I could keep going on. Dan's already yelling at me behind the, behind the glass. I give away too much. The McShay report is out.

[Drew Fabianich]

Two part series.

[Todd McShay]

We did two part series yesterday was part one. Covered a lot of the buzz that actually wind up coming true today. And part two is. It just, just hit. Okay. So it literally just dropped. If you're watching this, when this show first came out, it just dropped. So it was Wednesday And Thursday. The McShay Report. Google it. Subscribe it's go time, folks. Okay. We're, we're going to be ahead of a lot of this stuff all season long and we kind of watch a little tape and we feel good about what we're going to provide for you for the next few months. If you have any interest from a college standpoint. NFL standpoint. Just love the NFL draft.

[Drew Fabianich]

You're.

[Todd McShay]

It's. It's here, I promise you. I've worked at some other places a bit. It's like you're going to get the best stuff here. And that newsletter is my. Is my Baby. You know, that's the first time I've heard that.

[Mitch]

That's great. All right.

[Todd McShay]

You told me you're hot on something. I wanted. I love when you're hot on something, so just, just go.

[Mitch]

I have been on this position group for years now and really the last three or four and I just. We are in the golden era of tight ends, man. Let me, let me just read these names to you, okay? Brock Bowers, Trey McBride, Tyler Warren Colson Loveland, Dalton Kincaid, Sam Laporta, Tucker Craft, Jake Ferguson, Harold Fannin, Brenton Strange and Arande Gadsden, all drafted. All of these tight ends drafted in the last four draft cycles. There is just a wave of talent at tight end coming into the league. I don't even mention Elijah Roya, El Elijah Royo, our guy from Miami went to Seattle last year. And Terence Ferguson from Oregon, who ended up with the Rams, who had qu. Kind of quiet rookie years. But go look at Trey McBride's rookie year and then look at his second year in league. These guys are talented. I, I'm still betting on them to, to reach their.

[Todd McShay]

Did you mention Gunner Helm?

[Mitch]

Didn't even mention your guy Gunner. There's other guys. There's other guys in there, Todd, that I.

[Todd McShay]

One of the more productive ones despite like a lot of problems in that Tennessee offense and team.

[Mitch]

He had a nice year. You would not believe like some of these numbers that these guys like.

[Todd McShay]

As a fourth round pick, he was.

[Mitch]

A. I know a rhonda Gaston Man.

[Todd McShay]

120 overall and was one of the more productive tight ends. Preach. Yeah, Preach.

[Mitch]

I. I named like 100 people. But here comes another freaking wave of tight ends this class. Tell me about it.

[Drew Fabianich]

Bench.

[Mitch]

Obviously Oregon's Kenyon Sadiq is the name and he should be at the top of the list. Then you got Max cla from Ohio State.

[Todd McShay]

Pause, pause. I do, because this is important. I do feel like if you're just now coming into this thing and you're kind of keep an eye on the draft, but really an NFL fan or really a college football fan, I do think the perception out there is it's a one tight end draft that yeah, there is probably going to be one first rounder unless someone does something massive. Senior boy, combine all that stuff. But a lot of those guys you named are second, third, fourth round picks and I think that's where the strength is.

[Drew Fabianich]

Right.

[Mitch]

Yeah. I mean you look at. I was going to bring up. I just said Max Claire from Ohio State.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Mitch]

Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt is a little undersized guy. A little undersized, but he is a talented receiver. We're going to see Justin Jolly from North Carolina State. We're going to see Sam Roush from Stanford down at the Senior Bowl. D. Bentley, a guy from Utah that I feel like no one's talking about. A big frame can make plays in the passing game. Another Utah tight end. There are guys up and down this board that can make plays in the league.

[Drew Fabianich]

It's.

[Mitch]

I am fascinated, fascinated by all the talent that's coming in at tight end in the last four, four to five draft cycles. And what's interesting to me is it kind of matches up and, and you don't want to give someone too much credit, but I heard Stanford Steven on his pod the other day talking to Van Pelt about what Travis Kelce has done for the tight end position and how he may has made it cool. And I think this is, you know, the tight end. Maybe not just Kelsey, maybe some of these other guys that have made the tight end position more glamorous, more of a receiving position.

[Todd McShay]

Chicks dig the deep. Chicks dig the deep ball and tight end, you the ball. Tight end.

[Mitch]

The tight. The tight end position has evolved, man. It has turned into something different than we were watching Mark Bavaro with the Giants decades ago. These guys are playmakers. They are like just big graceful athletes that make plays in the passing game. And I think you're seeing that from kids wanting to play the position, more athletes wanting to play that position. And it's showing up in the depth of these tight end classes that we're seeing the last four or five.

[Todd McShay]

I do think the depth is what's really intriguing because it used to be there are three. I can remember like just a few years, like maybe three years ago. There would be two or three guys and then maybe one or two that could like he, he's a blocking tight end. We'll take him in the fifth. He, he's just an F. We'll you know, we'll take him in the fifth six, maybe can move him around as like an H. And now, like Kenyon Siddiq, Bentley is. I think, the most Bentley is. I've. I've started a little bit of tape on him. Bentley might be the guy where everyone's like, oh, where'd he come from?

[Drew Fabianich]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Mitch]

It's.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Joe Royer, Cincinnati. Max Claire. You talked about Jack Andrews, who I like a lot out of.

[Mitch]

I didn't bring up Andrews. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Eli Radon, Notre Dame.

[Mitch]

Roush.

[Todd McShay]

Sam Roush from Stanford. You talked about Kazmark from Ohio State. The, the other DeAndre Rogers. This Texas Christian kid's pretty good.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Joshua Cuevas, even at Alabama, just like consistent, reliable.

[Mitch]

Day three guy who we're gonna see making. Making plays in the playoffs in a couple years where you're just gonna be.

[Todd McShay]

Like, yep, he's just.

[Drew Fabianich]

Steady Eddie.

[Mitch]

There he is making plays.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Jolly. It's. It's an intriguing class.

[Mitch]

I'm telling you, man.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, you know who else I love? You know how I found this guy, Pete? We went to. We went to school with him at University of Richmond. We played teammate of ours. I was actually roommates with him for a year. Wild. He now does a lot of television and he. He does a lot of stuff for espn basketball, of course, football games.

[Drew Fabianich]

He.

[Todd McShay]

But he also does during the season, a Big 12 show. He's down in. He's down in Texas. Right. San Antonio. Getting married this year. Congratulations, Pete.

[Mitch]

Congrats.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he's getting married to Villanova this summer. But Tanner, Kozo Kozio from Houston, big cat. And I remember going on, he wanted to talk about some prospects in the Big 12, like, early in the season. And I saw his name on the scouting list, on the national scouting list, and so I'm like, I'm going to plug him in. And I. So I watched some tape on him. I forget the exact backstory. I'll have it for you later. But whether it was a basketball backer, he's just this massive dude and he's like. And he can actually move and you can tell he's still kind of working through it. But you talk about a developmental day three guy. He's going to be down in Mobile. I'm excited to see him in this environment.

[Mitch]

It's. It is a stacked group and it's been. I mean, this. I can't remember a run like this on tight ends. I cannot remember. And the year before, I only went back four cycles. The cycle before that was Kyle Pitts who finally started to, started to do some things that we thought he could do coming out. I mean it is the talent at tight end coming into this league, how offense coordinators are going to use that and adjust. I mean, I look at that Ramsay, the Rams offense with the. You always talk about Puka Nukua and Devonte Adams. Look at that tight end group that the Rams have. It is loaded. I just, it's, it's. I'm fascinated by how this is developing and what it's going to do for offenses.

[Todd McShay]

Drew Fabianich took over the job of our good friend Jim, Jim Nagy. He, I mean he's got bonafide days for days. Cowboys forever. Longtime coach, longtime scout, GM at Auburn. Kind of on the front end of this GM movement in the college game. He's been kind of, it's critical of that position. You're dealing with, agents you're dealing in. It's wild because this position, in my opinion, the league should chip in money and it should be a couple million dollar a year job. And I'm not joking because of how important it is for all 32 NFL teams that feed off of this thing, the media market, the individual players that benefit from it. Right. And the coordination that it takes to not only have an eye for talent and experience and haven't done that, then to coordinate as a general manager, all the other scouts that are there working for the Senior bowl, then to do the circuit, the media circuit and to be like you basically an elected official for the city of Mobile which hosts this game and like no other. And then all the details, getting everything lined up, dealing with those agents like it's wild what, what Drew does in this new job and we, we know like I've always known what, what that responsibility was and then I really got to know it with Jim and the stories and everything that you go through. So great appreciation for Drew and great appreciation that he's joining our show today. And like I'm so fired up. Let's just, let's get to it because like the amount of information and the, the kind of, the drama and the buildup going into this, this week's Senior bowl and throw in a massive storm coming through the South. I just, I love drama. I've learned that about myself. I'm ticking closer to 50. The older I get, the more I like drama, I like intrigue. And we got a bunch of it for the Senior Bowl. So let's bring on Drew. And there he is. Drew, how you doing, man?

[Drew Fabianich]

Good, Todd, Doing great. How you doing, Steve?

[Mitch]

Doing well, man. You busy?

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah, just, just, just made the decision to change 54 flights because of this weather.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Mitch]

What a logistic nightmare. I'm sure that's why you got into this is, so you could, you could work on all this. This travel stuff.

[Drew Fabianich]

Well, put it this way. I, I made the call on it. Jack Gilmore is taking care of that, which, God bless him, he's working with, you know, the travel agent to try to get that done. I've got a fantastic staff. I mean, Jim did a great job of who he hired in the first place, and then I brought in three more people that, you know, handle a lot of things that needed to be handled. And it's running like a well oil machine till we run into mother Nature. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And for those of you that don't know, maybe live in different parts of the country, we're expecting a big storm. I mean, basically, it looks like from the radar, I feel like I minor in weather. I love checking out the weather, but it looks like the entire country, like the middle of the country, is about to get hit with a massive storm. And if anyone's been in the south in a snowstorm, it's not treated that like it's. It causes all sorts of problems. It's not like being up in the Northeast. So that's one logistical factor that you didn't have to. That you didn't quite. Nobody could prepare for. It sounds like you've got it figured out. I'm curious before we get to the players, which I think most people watching this are really excited to kind of hear your takes and what's going on, the latest updates. I'm curious about this schedule change, man. I know our production team is kind of like, all right, well, what are we. But for. For coaches, scouts, people there, I think the media in general, tell us what you. What the decision was. But I know it's been very much welcomed by the community that will be down there, which is basically the entire NFL and the media covering it.

[Drew Fabianich]

And you know what's funny? I mean, Todd, I didn't do it for everybody else. I really did it for the players, you know, because the first thing I, when I did when I came down, I looked at the schedule and I said, is there any reason why we're doing the formal interviews at night? Is there not space to do it somewhere else? And they're like, well, no. I was like, well, what if you push practice back? And, you know, this and that. And I. I just started tweaking things and asking them questions. I just, you know, I didn't want to be a heavy, heavy lift. And after a while, it was like there was no reason for us not to do it. And the reason why it came up in my mind and because I did this for 18 straight years and 12 of it was formal interviews and started at 7, finished at 10:30. And when I got done, I wanted to stick an ice pick in my head. I didn't want to do one. I did not want to do one thing after everybody go, hey, you want to go grab a drink? Or what? I was like, no, no, I don't. I'm done. I'm toast. And I went, you know, if I felt that bad, I bet you the players feel even worse because they're getting asked the Same asinine question 32 times, you know, and they're trying to put on the happy face and answer it and be nice about it. But then they get done. They go, you know, I mean, glad, you know, it's over with. But they're. They're. They're spent because the other, you know, the other piece of it, agents said they could never get to their clients because every second was accounted for here. And I get that. And it was. And they. They really couldn't even get to them at night either. They couldn't get to him in the morning. You know, they wanted to get to him after practice. And I'm like, sorry, you can't get to him after practice because we got to get them back to the hotel, you know, and so I did this for the players. But what happened is, is now. And you guys know this have been down here. This used to be like the unofficial NFL coaches convention. Used to be, yeah, until. Until the formal interview started happening. And they went, well, I can't go out with my boys. I can't meet any people. I can't lobby for a job. I can't network, you know, so I'll just go to the combine, interview these guys, because they're all going to be at the combine, you know, so the coaches stopped coming. Well, now I find out that once the. The GMs, and once we announced what we were doing, they said the coach engagement has went up like 80%. They want. They want, you know, which will help them in the evaluation process, too, because they're still going to get the interview, but they're going to get practice. Nothing going to come down here and network for a job. Player personnel, people get freed up, the agents get freed up, the player gets freed up. About 8:30 at night. And now there's no excuse for you to say, well, I don't have time with my players. Now you do.

[Todd McShay]

Let's. Let's get right into it with the quarterbacks. There's six on the roster now. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know that things are changing pretty quickly, but I've got Garrett Nussmeier, who we're thrilled to see, hopefully healthy and ready to go and all had a lot higher grades on him coming into the year and excited for him to be able to go and showcase his skills down in Mobile. Beyond that, Sawyer Robertson, who's one of my favorites from Baylor. Diego Pavia, who everyone knows is the one. One of the faces of college football this past year. Vanderbilt, Luke Altmire from. From Illinois, Taylor Green, Arkansas, and Cole Payton from North Dakota State. Could there be any more quarterbacks? I'm not trying to get name reveals right now, but could there be any more quarterbacks? And after you answered that, could you kind of fill us in on what you're excited to see from that quarterback group?

[Drew Fabianich]

There could be two more. I'm waiting on two more. I have those spots, you know, waiting for them. We have the interview spots waiting for them. If they don't come, we'll run with six. If they do come, we'll run with eight. I'm okay with it either way, but I think both of them could benefit from being down here, and I think they understand that. I think there's just some. There's just some things we have to navigate to get them here, you know. You know, I'm. I'm thrilled to death with, you know, the group. I saw most of these guys at the Manning Academy last summer. You know, the one that, you know, I've got. I've got background with is Garrett Nussmeier, because I worked with Doug with the Cowboys for, you know, the time we were there. I've known him since he's 15 years old. You know, love Garrett to death. Song, Spin it. And I've seen him spin it for a long time. And I knew I was gonna. I knew I was gonna invite him in August. I did. Now I didn't invite him until, you know, November, when we invited everybody else. But regardless of the year that he had, I mean, I can't unsee what I saw, Todd. I mean, that's 4,000 yards, 24 touchdowns. I mean, you know, again, you always have to look at when you're evaluating players. Why? Well, you go, well, they couldn't run the Ball. The receivers they brought in from the portal, I mean, a couple of them showed up, but not as impactful as they should have been. They couldn't protect him. They took a lot of shots and he was hurt almost the entire year and he gutted it out as long as he could. And you know, I've got a lot of compassion for that because I know what he is and I think he's going to show everybody what he is again and everybody's gonna go, gosh, I'm so surprised. Well, no, you shouldn't be. Sawyer Robertson is one of the best pure passers in this whole group. You know, you don't know how hard it was for him this year because they could not run the football and they were always in a shootout because you'd have to put up 30, 35 to 38 points per game. Just have a chance to win. Taylor Green. So I'm, so I'm throw down there dual threat guy, his strokes getting better, his accuracy is getting better. You know, the, the kid from North Dakota State, I mean Cole is, is a one year guy, but the league's interested in him because he was really productive and he's a dual threat guy which a lot of teams are starting to take more interest in. The dual threat guys. Luke Altmire has been steady throughout his career at Illinois. Saw him down at the Manning Academy too. And I'm going like, you know, he's, he looks smaller on tape than he does in person. He's a bigger, he's a bigger man than you think. And I think people will be impressed with how ball comes out of his hand. I'm trying to remember who else. Who am I missing? Todd? Am I missing one more?

[Todd McShay]

Green Altmire, Green. Peyton Sawyer, Rob Robertson. Oh yeah, Pavio. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

I mean again, you watch tape, it's good tape. And they do a really good job of using his skill set. I mean, you know, Jerry Kill and the offensive coordinator, Coach Lee, I mean they didn't ask him to do things he couldn't do. And being a short quarterback, you know, you can't see, you can't see. And he's not going to be your prototypical drop back guy, pocket guy. He's going to have to be an RPO guy, move the pocket, you know, use his legs and you know, take advantage of his skill set. And a team's got to be willing to do that. But you're going to see when you come down, I mean he's not deficient arm strength wise at all. It comes out pretty well. And he's. He improved his accuracy this year, too. And like I said, the tape's good. And guess what? You know, like Signetti, he wins. Yeah, he wins. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I got one. One more I really want to ask you. And then I know Steve's itching to ask you some questions as well. I wrote today on. On social media, like senior Bulls on a heater, because these national championship guys, you got to remember, we're talking just hours ago, finished playing their season, 16 game seasons. I remember back to 2009, right? When. When I couldn't, I saw on the roster, Raymal Luga, Cushing, Matthews. And I said to myself, they're. They're saying they're coming. Are they really gonna, like, Are they really gonna come out and practice every day and go through it? And then I remember watching them walk through that fence onto the field, and then I remember hearing them an interview, and I think it was Maluga, who's like, I just wanted to come down here to get discovered. Like, what the hell is he talking about? You know, he's like, because they don't know me practicing against elite players every day. They don't know what I do in practice, you know, so it was just that mindset. And Pete Carroll, kind of. That was his whole thing. You know, competition is a great motivator. And I feel like with Indiana and Miami, there are two programs that have a lot of that kind of same competitive, just eager to do everything right and love the game. So to see some guys from the national championship game already saying, yeah, I'm in. I want to come compete. I don't care. Yeah, I played the other day, but there's a chance to go play ball, and I can show everyone what I can do. I'm in. And the biggest name, I think you've gotten to know him. So you may maybe not as surprised as the public, like Reuben Bain coming to play in the Senior bowl, that's a huge get. And I just want you to speak to kind of what it's been like talking to some of those guys from Miami and Indiana as they. Or fresh off of that national championship.

[Drew Fabianich]

Game, you know, it. And again, just. Just going to everybody else, I'll kind of save Reuben for last guys that, you know, can do this after 16 games. And put this way, there may be some that tap out because they're beat up. I mean, 16 games and this. I mean, a long season. I mean, it's as long as an NFL season because it's not 16 weeks. It's like 24 weeks. I mean, so, I mean, if some of these guys tap out, I get it. And it's good because they're beat up, they got injuries, they. They want to put on a good, you know, outing. And sometimes, you know, they may not be 100%, and I don't want them down here if they're not 100%, because I want them to put on the best show that they possibly can with their abilities. I do with Indiana and with Miami. You know, it is a warrior mentality now, and that's what the league wants to see. They want to see you go through the process, and this is the first part of the process. The draft starts in Mobile. That is no BS because they want to see you show up, they want to see you interview, they want to see you practice, they want to see you play. Right? Then they want you to go to the combine and then go to. Go to your pro day and then get a 30 visit if you need to. If you need to. If they need you to. And guess what? That's because you're checking all the boxes. They want to see that you're accountable. You know, you're mature. You understand it. You know, you've. You're. You love the game because that shows you love the game. And the part of this that you guys know. And. And a lot of people have said, if you don't love this game, an NFL building an NFL locker room will eat your ass alive. Yeah. And it will weed you out in a second, because those guys are there feeding their family. They're not playing for the money. You know, they're playing for their livelihood and their family and their. Yeah, the money's great, but guess what? You're gonna take my money, okay? And nobody's gonna hold your hand in an NFL locker room. Nobody. And if you're mature, you take care of your business. You do what you're supposed to do. You don't lose money, you don't get fined, you don't get cut. So this shows them. The whole process shows them what you want. And it's just checking the boxes. Right? And the more boxes you can check, the more your value sustains or goes higher. Now with Reuben, he's been warrior since day one. I recruited the heck out of him when I was a GM at Auburn. And I think I actually had a legitimate chance of getting him because I was going to get Keldrick, too. And I was selling, you know, hey, we're going to get three or four dudes here. And you know, once I get fired, I mean, he was like, I'm, I'm not coming, I'm not coming to Auburn. You know, told him I'm not coming. There's no way I'm coming without fave not being there. I was like, appreciate you, rubes, but you know, you didn't have to do that. Well, he accepted, he accepted the invitation. It started December, but we didn't announce it till after because I didn't want to be a distraction, you know, to him or anybody else if they checked the box and said, do not, you know, announce right now. We didn't announce right now, but he announced. I mean, he, he jumped at it in December, you know, so did Keonte. So did, you know, Jacoby, Jacoby said it was okay to announce it. You know, Mesadore said, go ahead and announce it. You know, we got a couple more out there. I mean, we just picked up, you know, Markel Bell. I mean, guys that have played through that and are willing to do this, part of it shows what's important in their life. And what's important is showing the league how important this game is to them. And I'm not going to say it's, it's just those guys, I think those coaches have instilled that in those players because when people say warrior, nah, you play 10 games, you know, you play 16 games in 20, 23, 24 weeks, you're a damn warrior. And that's what the league is. And, and you know, you heard the rookie wall, 12 games. The 12 games, they're like, you know, yeah, yeah, now these, now these guys are playing 16 and they're coming to an all star game too. I mean, you know, hey, that rookie wall may not be part of their DNA anymore. So I'm thrilled to death with all of them. Seriously, I'm thrilled to death with the entire roster. I really, truly am. But there's some guys that I have ties to that I've recruited and that I know that I've spent time with, have personal relationships with them and I want to do what's best for them. I really do. And if I didn't think this was beneficial for guys, I tell them, hey, don't come. You know, because there's, there's some quotes and comments, you know, like, you know, why does a guy like him need to come? Well, because going from pick 15 to pick 10 is about six and a half million dollars difference in a four year contract. Yeah, okay. That's why. Yeah, okay, that's why. So if you're the player, you're the agent. Isn't that a good business decision? I mean. Yeah, no question. Yeah, that's.

[Todd McShay]

It's a big deal.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. I mean, and the perfect one was, you know, the gray Zable kid from last year. I mean, the league had him as a top of the third round guy. And he goes at 18. And he didn't go at 18 because his Protea, he went to 18 because of this game. And you know, that's $12.2 million difference in a four year contract. 12.2.

[Todd McShay]

It's crazy.

[Mitch]

Yeah. I want to bring up Zable because, you know, you look at college football today and it feels like the transfer portal is consolidating power.

[Drew Fabianich]

Right.

[Mitch]

But the Senior bowl has a long tradition history of identifying small school players. And you've got a guy coming there you invited named Delby Lemieux from Dartmouth. How did, like, talk to me about that process of still finding these players? I mean, everyone's transferring. Right, but you found an offensive tackle at an Ivy League school who. I don't want to make it sound like, you know, you're doing him a favor. I mean, he's earned the right to go there. But can you talk about the player a little bit and the process inviting a player like that to the game?

[Drew Fabianich]

Well, I had a. And again, I'll kind of backtrack a little bit to Steve on this. The portal and P4 has actually done my job and done the NFL's job for them. On the small college guys? Yes, because the small college guys, I mean, there used to be like 50 to 60 guys outside of, you know, P4 and G5 that, you know, you'd go look at. I mean, I've been to Cuts down. I've been to, you know, NC A and T or whatever. I mean, I went everywhere every once in a while, you know, for a certain player. But now it's like, I mean, I got a little birdie in my ear that said, you know, hey, there's a, there's, there may be a guy at Dartmouth playing tackle. And so I pop on the tape, I watch him play tackle. He looks tuned. I mean, he looks, he looked really thin. And I went, okay, he's a really, really good athlete, you know, and, and guess what? He's good in space. And he actually moves people. But he's Ivy League and I'm. I'm kind of kicking him a little bit. Well, I keep watching the tape this year. I go, oh, he got a little bit bigger. He's getting better, you know, And I'm going like, wait a minute. So I mentioned something to two area scouts in the Northeast. Well, they say, I'm going into Dartmouth now. Well, then that started an avalanche, you know, and it was like, okay, now that area scout talks. Another area scout, the area scouts talk. I mean, it just kept building and building and building. And I'm not saying I discovered him. I didn't. My little birdie that had a son there, Dartmouth, said, you may want to look at this kid. And I did. Well, I said, the guy needs to be a center. And I told his agent, which is kind of a. He's kind of an offensive line specialist kind of guy. And he said, I'm gonna put his hand on the ball. He's gonna be doing that from day one, as soon as he gets done, and he's gonna play center here. And it's awesome.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I love when that happens.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. I didn't do it.

[Mitch]

Same thing.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. But I'm not. Put this way. I didn't. I didn't find him. Okay. All I did is identify him and then say something to the league. And then all of a sudden, it starts going like this. And it was always that way when you were scouting, if you said something about, hey, I really like such and such. It's such and such. Well, he wasn't going to you. It was going about 50 other dudes. Because there's no secrets, you know, because scouts can't help it. They. They talk too much.

[Todd McShay]

We know, right?

[Drew Fabianich]

They talk way too much, you know? And it's like, guess what? I mean, I got nothing. I mean, first put it this way, the first time I said something about him, some of the guys go, well, we don't have him yet. Well, by the time I got to, after the October meetings that the league had with their scouts, they're like, oh, yeah, we got draftable grades on this guy. I'm like, yeah, could have told you that. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, this ain't my first rodeo.

[Mitch]

Another. Another group of players. You know, there's a small school. Players. Another group of players that's really interesting to me when I look at this roster is. And he kind of talked about this with some of the quarterbacks, but there are players that came into the year who had high rankings and maybe didn't have the year that we want them to have. I'm specifically thinking of Clemson's T.J. parker, the edge. And I'm thinking of Oklahoma running back Jaden Ott. These guys didn't have great years, but you still decided to invite them. What goes into that kind of a process? Why did you make the decision to bring in that kind of a player? I'm excited to see both of them.

[Drew Fabianich]

The, the TJ Parker thing goes back to the Garrett Nussmeier thing. I, I can't unsee what I saw the year before. Yeah, right. Like, I'm going like, this Dude's a top 15 pick. Well, for whatever reason, I mean, you look at the front, you look at how they used him. I mean, again, when I personally called him, he couldn't wait to sign up. He was like, he said, I got something to prove. He's like, I didn't have a good year. And I love hearing that, you know. You know, with, with odd. This goes back to me being a GM and trying to get him out of the portal, out of Cal. And again, I saw him play a Cal and I went, he's had all the traits to be a change of pace back. Now, for whatever reason, he played a little bit at Oklahoma. He got hurt, he played a little bit. You know, they just didn't, he didn't get a lot of touches. And again, there was nothing negative. I just think it was the wrong fit. And nobody said, you know, hey, he's not capable. They all said, you know, hey, there's a reason why he was here, the reason why we signed him. So, I mean, I think that he's going to be not a big surprise, but a very big surprise just athletically and just the way, just the way he moves in space because he's, he's going to be a really good change of pace back. He is.

[Todd McShay]

I think of all the positions, I mean, Edge might be the strongest, right? But, but the running back position, for some reason, I feel like there's a perfect blend of big name guys, talent, obviously, and, and then guys who are. You feel like they're just scratching the surface while other guys, you know what they can be. But maybe something happened this year. It was a setback. I'm going to rip off some names for you. Nicholas Singleton from Penn State, unbelievably talented, catches the ball big fast. Catron Allen from Penn State as well, had a better season than. Than Singleton. Doesn't have the skill set, but a powerful back and we know what he can do. Rachel Faison a little bit, I think one of those guys that is underrated at this point coming out of South Carolina, Jamari Taylor, small school guy, HBCU guy, goes to Virginia. And this guy's just brutally tough to tackle. Adam Randle. I saw a receiver playing running back early this season and then I saw a guy who like is developing running back instincts. Le'Veon Moss was one of the best backs in the country when healthy and then just was dealing with injury. And you just talked about Jaden Ott. Can you walk through the group and kind of what you're excited about and maybe what people should expect you do.

[Drew Fabianich]

You just gave a hell of a scouting report for most every single one of them.

[Todd McShay]

I can't help myself sometimes.

[Drew Fabianich]

So I mean, you know the lucky piece that I had is I lined up against those guys from Penn State twice. Right. And you're so correct. Nick Singleton was down this year. I don't know why. The offensive line was actually pretty good. You know, Katron had a better year than he normally has. K Tron's a pounder. I mean he is one of those guys that's not going to be a jump cut guy. He's going to be a one cut guy and he's going to be a pounder. Is he a change of pace guy? Is he a third down guy? We'll see. Because he didn't catch the ball very often. Nick Singleton is a complete back and don't know what happened, don't care. But I know he's going to show everybody the same skill set that you saw, I saw everybody else has seen in the past, you know, living Moss. You're right. I mean, you know, love the vision, love the burst, love the balance and you know, and I think he's going to be a complete back too. I think he's a three down guy. Just wasn't healthy, you know and last year didn't get a lot of touches. So again if he's healthy and gets a lot of touches, he could be an impactful guy on any team. You know. Jamari Taylor, as you said, what I like about him, he runs through side contact, he runs his yards after contact is big. He's a hard tackle, feet are in the ground all the time and you know he's just, he's almost sprawlish but he's actually almost a little bit thicker than he is upstairs. Strolls was, you know, really thick down low, you know, kind of most Maurice Jones drew kind of, you know, looking, you know, but even, you know, that kind of power imbalance, you know and coming from North Carolina, you know, Central again, they're doing my job for me and so is they're doing it for the league. I mean you find A guy from there, and you bring him to Virginia and he's really successful. Gosh. Oh, Washington. Mike Washington. Yeah. I mean, more than just a pounder. And he just kind of broke onto the scene too. Didn't, you know, didn't have a lot of background to his, you know, his story. But, you know, again, I like big backs. I do, but I gotta. You like big players?

[Todd McShay]

Let's call it what it is.

[Drew Fabianich]

I looked at this roster.

[Todd McShay]

There's a bunch of big, like every. Big receivers, big corners, every.

[Drew Fabianich]

You.

[Mitch]

You have.

[Todd McShay]

And a lot of guys in the league do, and for good reason. History has shown us. But there is definitely a. An emphasis on. Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, sure.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yes. Yes. There's a bias there. And. And I call them hair on fire guys, too. I got a bias for hair on fire guys. But the big guy. The big guys come from. And. And I'm giving him credit because it's. It. Credits due. Bill Parcells, I mean, tore me out of the frame, like, in front of everybody. And when I brought up a smaller guy, I said, well, he's a. He's a corner, he's a safety, he's a punt returner, he's a receiver. I mean, he's done everything. You know, he's like, you know, I'm just rattling off. He goes, how big is he? I said, five, ten. And he says, how many years you coach? I said, 18 years, coach. He says, obviously not effing enough. Yeah, right. And he said, he said, because small guys wear down, big guys don't get any smaller. And he also said, you got to be big because you. You're built to last and you're going to be able to play in November, which makes a hell of a lot of sense. Yeah, it's a big. It's a big. It's a big man's game. And, you know, I've got selected guys in certain positions that are, you know, they're not walk on water guys, but they're special, you know, for their size. And again, you got to have certain, you know, pieces that fit for those smaller guys. Now, they're not tiny, tiny, they're just smaller. So there's a place for them. But again, I'm. I'm really biased. And those corners, they're all big, but two of them, I mean, all of them, there is not. Other than two, I don't think there's one under six foot tall, if I remember right. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's lies.

[Todd McShay]

It's Colton Hood, Malik Muhammad, Chris Johnson, igbanosan Davison and Ig Big Nose and from Ohio State. They're all 6 1, 62 above Will Lee.

[Drew Fabianich]

6 1, you're forgetting, you're forgetting two Ephesians and take care are 6, 4. Both of them. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And even that Charles Demings guy, you like him from Stephen F. Stephen F. Austin.

[Drew Fabianich]

I do. You know, I kind of call him. I, you know, I've kind of said he's, he's almost like a small school Malik Muhammad because he didn't have the resources. He looks thin. I think he is thin. I think he's thin framed. He's. He's not. He needs mass. He needs more, you know, overall strength. But he's got the same kind of silky smooth movements as Malik does. And for his length, he's got really, really good foot speed and comes out of it really well. Doesn't waste a lot of steps in the transition. Doesn't waste a lot of steps in his turn. And I think he's going to show a lot of people he belongs. I just, I think he's going to put this way, I think he's two years down the line that he's a starter in the league right now. I mean, I think he's just body, his body just needs to develop. He needs the nutrition. He needs to, you know, because again, Stephen F. Doesn't have the resources that Texas does or any other P school, P4 school does. I like him. I like Chris Johnson. I mean, and I don't consider Chris Johnson a, you know, small school guy. But San Diego State doesn't have the resources that other schools do either. I mean, I keep telling McShay about.

[Mitch]

Johnson, I keep telling my kids about Johnson, my wife about Johnson, anyone who will listen to me. I think that Chris Johnson's got a chance to be a starter early on in the league. I, I think his tape is outstanding.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. And he's really instinctual, which I really, really like. You know, he. Gosh, I'm trying to remember the.

[Todd McShay]

His man, man zone, versatility, the ability to, to play, both really stood out to me.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah, he. But his instincts kind of reminded me of Casey Hayward. Yeah, that's. That, that just the eyes and just the instincts of just tracking and just, I mean, he, he's. He's got ball production because he, he's got intuition and skills, you know, and that's, that's hard to teach.

[Mitch]

So comfortable than a lot of corners I've seen in college with his back towards the quarterback when he turns and runs, he's A guy that's. Doesn't panic, he can get his head turned around. It really jumped out when I was watching him compared to maybe some of the other guys in this class.

[Drew Fabianich]

No doubt. But like I said, and he tracks really well. I mean, he tracks like you. Like you said, he tracks when he's in. When he's in phase, whether he's in the front hip or the back hip. And he's got a little bit of, you know, Richard Sherman kind of intuition when, you know, get the eyes back to. On the hands. So, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I'm not displeased. Put it this way, in the least. And I know the corner class is, you know, they say, oh, there's not like six guys, you know. Yeah. But there's probably about 10 dudes that are starters in the league.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

And guess what? If I get that guy in the third round, who cares, you know?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

I mean, because guess what? I didn't have to spend the money to get him in the first, did I? You know, so. Spending on somebody else.

[Todd McShay]

So, Mitch, what else you got, man? I. I've got one I want to finish on, so. Anything else you got.

[Mitch]

I was gonna. I was gonna get into Demings with you. I got into the guys that.

[Todd McShay]

That.

[Mitch]

The small soul guys that I want to get into Demings and Lemieux. I want to get in Parker.

[Todd McShay]

Not.

[Mitch]

I'm good. The only thing I was going to ask you, though, is what's been the biggest challenge for you? I mean, with all these players, we can talk about what has been the biggest challenge for you in year one.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

I could see you got your head down. Was this the wrong question to ask?

[Drew Fabianich]

No, it's just. And I'll. And I'll say this in the nicest way.

[Todd McShay]

Can I.

[Mitch]

Can.

[Todd McShay]

I guess so.

[Drew Fabianich]

I know. I know.

[Todd McShay]

You're gonna start with the A. Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yes, it does.

[Todd McShay]

And then with an S. Yes.

[Drew Fabianich]

I'll say it. I'll say it this way. Too many agents talk to too many area scouts. Okay? Area scouts don't see the entire country. And they give grades out to these agents. And these agents take it as gospel. And I'm going like, you know, one would say, hey, I got a receiver from such and such, and he's a second runner. No, he's like a fourth. There's 12 guys that are better than him. Right. And they go, well, we still have second round grades on him. Okay, well, guess what? In the fourth round, I'll call you and say, guess what? I Know I'm right because I see everybody and right. They don't listen because they think all I'm trying to do is get him to play in the game. And it's this simple for me. If you're not a top five pick, you should play in this damn game because you can make money, bottom line. And if you don't believe that, just watch the guys that are going to be here that are, quote, tie in seconds or back in first that end up being at pick 15 because of this game. Just watch.

[Mitch]

Happens every year.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah, there's one that told me he goes, he goes, he doesn't need to play in the game. He's got first round grades. I said, there's nobody in this league that got first round grades on this guy. I said, I'm just telling you because I, I got five or six directors that I'm close friends with nobody. And he listened to somebody and guess what? I said, I'm gonna be the first guy to call you after day one. I said, I'm gonna say, yep, told you so. They're, they're just, they don't listen. And again, that's fine, you know, because again, I'm not trying to pull the wool over your eyes just to get you here. I'm. I know that there's certain guys that can make money here doing this and almost everybody can. But some of them may be backing out because they're afraid of getting exposed too. Because they know that maybe they're weak. Maybe they know in one on ones they're going to get taken advantage of. And the agent goes, no, let's not do that. I get that, I get that, you know, but that's my biggest issue. They also didn't tell me, Todd, that I'm the unofficial Mary Mobile. They didn't tell me that. They didn't tell me that.

[Mitch]

We could have told you that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we knew that.

[Drew Fabianich]

Did you, did you know that I was. That I'd be speaking at the rotary Club at 7am this morning?

[Todd McShay]

It comes with the territory, man. But there's great restaurants in that in Mobile, Alabama. It's one of the underrated cuisine places in the country. And you get to eat basically for free for a long time. So it's, it's the trade off people.

[Mitch]

The people have always been great down there.

[Drew Fabianich]

Always been great because they've always embraced this game, you know, and I kid around with them. I always say, is this a football game with a cocktail party or a cocktail party with a football game?

[Todd McShay]

Oh, it's A cocktail party with a football game. Don't get it twisted. Don't get it twisted.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. And they enjoy it. I mean, which is great because I mean, heck, it's going to sell out again. It is. I mean, there's no doubt it's going to sell out.

[Todd McShay]

So every other all Star game has bounced from, from city to city, state to state, and this stays at its rightful home in Mobile, Alabama. I do one last thing and you just touched on it every year. I've always said two things about the Senior Bowl. You leave there and actually it probably doesn't take until Wednesday. Two things I always have been able to take from it, among other things, but two things that jump out. One is the cream rises pretty fast. You can and you could. Unfortunately, sometimes agents get in those players head. Like, you're clearly the best player here. You practice two practices or one practice and it's time to go. Which is absurd and tells you a little bit about, you know, the, the individual and who they're hiring to be their agent. However, the other thing that I always get is there are always second rounders that become first, third that becomes second. You know, like there's always like a handful of guys who you, you knew were players. And then you saw them there, you're like, oh, he's even better than I. Than I thought. Are there any guys this. And I don't want to put you in a spot because obviously every player here is an opportunity to rise. But are there a few guys that you have your eyes on? Like, I think this guy is vastly underrated by what I'm seeing online or. But what people kind of think about him, I think they're. At the end of next week, people are going to be talking about him is almost more of a household name when it comes to the 26 NFL Draft.

[Drew Fabianich]

Malik Muhammad, I mentioned Demings, I think. I mean, he's already a household name, you know, but I think that Jacob Rodriguez is going to kind of show that he's more complete than people think. I think there's, there's one that can wreck a game and if some defensive coordinator can figure out exactly how to use him, you know, it's Kyle Lewis from Pitt. Really? Yeah. Is he a big nickel? Is he right backer? Is he a money backer? You know, because he's impactful and I mean, lined up against him for two years and I was like, you know, you need to count for this guy. I mean, everywhere, you know, and I think that that's one that nobody really is talking about at all. Yeah. And he's got. And he's got a little Levante David to him, which, you know, because Levante was about his size. Matter of fact, Levante was a little bit lighter than him because Kyle Lewis looks like he's 210 and he's 225 and he's probably going to be 228 when he gets here. You know, now we got to see if he can play will backer and play in the box. They can do that. He's a money backer. But he could be a nickel Sam too, you know, or it could be a big nickel. I mean, so we're exposed.

[Mitch]

He runs like a safety. I mean, he covers.

[Drew Fabianich]

No doubt, no doubt. He's just a little tight to play, to be a safety. I mean.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

I'm saying the big nickel's a little different, you know, and all that. You know, the other one that. That I think is just like nobody even knows about is Vinnie Anthony from Wisconsin. I mean, nobody, you know, they had issues at quarterback. I mean, big issues. Yeah. And you know, if the ball was five feet close to him, he was happy because he wasn't getting a lot of looks, he wasn't getting a lot of balls. But he's big and fast. He's good in and out of his routes. You know, he could use a little bit of strength. But I think that, you know, him being in training and everything else, I think he's going to come down. People are gonna go, wait a minute, who's that guy? You know, because there's nobody talking about him. I mean, nobody. Romello height is, I bet maybe the surprise of the guys coming off the edge this year down here, you know, because he's at sub rusher. I mean, he, he though the worst. He is a situational pass rusher teams guy. That's the worst he is. And how, how big is he going.

[Mitch]

To be, do you think?

[Drew Fabianich]

See, I think he's only going to be about 238 pounds. Tops. Tops.

[Todd McShay]

Parcels are screaming at you.

[Drew Fabianich]

He is.

[Mitch]

I thought he might be smaller. Yes, I thought he might be smaller.

[Drew Fabianich]

So he might.

[Mitch]

That's a good number. That's a good number for him. If he gets around that 240 range, I think that's a good number for him.

[Drew Fabianich]

Maybe. But I. And I don't know if he'll get there, you know. Yeah, I'd be. I'd be willing to say he was probably 222 right in there during the year, you know, I'M guessing he.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe that's what he was in the spring, I think.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. See, so I'm. And again. But he's. He's a special rusher. He just had a dude. I mean, they played no doubt off each other. Well, but put it this way. That was no different than when we had DeMarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer. I mean, yeah. You know, D where it was putting up double digits. Well, guess what? Anthony Spencer was, too. They just weren't 19. They were more like 10.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Drew Fabianich]

You know, so, you know, there was always that, you know, hey, Anthony Spencer, you know, it should have been better, but Anthony Spencer was good, too. So, I mean, when you got two rushers, just like messenger and bain, I mean, they play off each other and some guy gets more pushed than others and some guy gets, you know, flushed to a different guy. So those are the ones, Todd. I mean. And again, I. I could give you three more than, you know, could possibly be that. But I don't. We don't have enough time.

[Todd McShay]

I appreciate we. And especially we're. But now looking into changing our flights. We might be coming down on Saturday night. Means one more night. Is it Chuck's fish? Is it Noble South? I don't know. These are good problems to have, though. These are good problems to have.

[Drew Fabianich]

And I'm going to give you another one. The dumbwaiter next to the next.

[Todd McShay]

I love that we.

[Mitch]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Drew Fabianich]

Yeah. And. And here's one, too now, if you got time.

[Todd McShay]

Speaking my language. Drew. Where?

[Drew Fabianich]

Noja. Noja. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's. That's truly. And again, like you said, there are two in this town. And I traveled everywhere and I got a list of everywhere I went in the country. I've got, like a list of restaurants everywhere. There are two down here. They're my top 10. And one of them you mentioned. Yeah, Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, Chris Eatings is my guy, so.

[Drew Fabianich]

Oh. And I'll tell you this. Here's what he said. His biggest revenue all year last year was the Wednesday night that they didn't have interviews. And I said. I said, how would you like to have Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? He said, can I get you. See, I wasn't going to plug him, but I. We ended up plugging him anyway.

[Todd McShay]

Unbelievable backstory, too, with his mom and the.

[Drew Fabianich]

Absolutely.

[Todd McShay]

Sushi and how she was found at a little sushi shop by Chuck. And. Anyway, all right, we're excited if you can't tell.

[Drew Fabianich]

And I.

[Todd McShay]

We truly do appreciate your time. I know it's insane this week with all the roster movement, the travel and everything else. But we appreciate your time and we it's hard to find two bigger fans of the Senior bowl and that have more appreciation for what you're doing because it truly is the draft does start in Mobile and it truly is a critical part of this process that we all love. So.

[Drew Fabianich]

Oh, I agree. And thank you for having me. I really appreciate you guys too. Hope, you know you got it, man.

[Todd McShay]

We'll see you down there.

[Mitch]

Thank you.

[Drew Fabianich]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.

[Drew Fabianich]

Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time, 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy. See terms.