A Taylen Green Epiphany. Plus, Indiana and Jermod McCoy Pro Day Reactions.

Summary

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The McShay Show — April 1, 2026

"A Taylen Green Epiphany. Plus, Indiana and Jermod McCoy Pro Day Reactions."

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Todd McShay and Steve Muench dive deep into NFL draft prospect evaluations with a particular focus on quarterback Taylen Green. McShay shares his late-night “epiphany” about Green’s future, stirring a debate about QB strategy, risk, and projection in the draft process. The conversation branches out into incisive pro day analysis (notably at Indiana), updates on cornerback performances (Jermod McCoy, D’Angelo Pons), and overarching strategies for drafting developmental QBs versus safer “floor” players. Packed with insider insights, this episode is a must for anyone closely following the 2026 NFL Draft narrative.

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Episode Breakdown

1. Fernando Mendoza’s Pro Day and NFL Ready Traits (00:06-09:03)

• Takeaways from Mendoza’s Pro Day: While the event itself was minimally eventful, McShay admires Mendoza’s unvarnished approach and the meaningful exposure it provides with no “viral” throws or unnecessary theatrics.
• Mendoza’s Strengths and Weaknesses:
  • Not a “special elite talent,” but strong (6’5”, ~240 lbs), mobile in designed roll-outs, and poised.
  • Lacks the twitch and elusiveness when pressure arrives; has adequate, not elite, arm strength.
  • “It was not spectacular. It was fine. It was good. Check the box. He’s healthy. Put on good weight.” (McShay, 04:01)
  • Displays Tom Brady-like obsessive focus and poise.
  • “There’s something about him that’s different. And that different allows him to…” (McShay, 06:46)
  • The big selling point: reliability of preparation, decision-making, and leadership over pure physical tools.

2. Pro Day Standouts: Indiana and Defensive Back Class (09:03-18:40)

• Jermod McCoy’s Speed Turns Heads:
  • “Most were in the high 4.3s, which is sensational.” (McShay, 09:32)
  • Reassures scouts after 15 months off the field; “It’s reassuring that he came out and put that number down.” (Steve, 13:20)
  • Vertical: 38”, Broad Jump: 10’7” — good but not historic, reflecting the rising bar for athletic testing.
• D’Angelo Pons and DB Depth:
  • Pons posts a blazing 4.3s 40, confirming on-tape explosiveness.
  • “If you’re gonna pound that table for a guy that you love on tape...it’s got to be accompanied with a good time...” (McShay, 16:25)
  • “The depth of this cornerback class is really good—good through like three rounds.” (McShay, 17:16)
• Other Names:
  • Elijah Surat (WR) runs low 4.5s — solid for a day two prospect.
  • Kaelin Black (RB): “Ran the low 4.4s...Combine snub...As a runner, the talent as a runner, I really thought he should have been invited.” (McShay & Steve, 18:35-18:40)

3. The ‘Epiphany’ — Re-Evaluating Quarterback Value and the Taylen Green Leap

McShay’s QB Sorting Hat: (21:03-33:24)

• Scene Setting: Todd describes his long, late-night grind reviewing prospects — “sweatpants, hoodie, hat backwards...Lights down, tape on.” (McShay, 23:10)
• Defining QB Categories:
  • One: Functional backup/“teacher’s aide”—the guy who can manage, support, and, if needed, start.
  • Two: The rare “developmental swing” with a sky-high payoff if everything clicks (e.g., Jalen Hurts, Colin Kaepernick, Dak Prescott).
  • “These are the guys that, if you hit on, you’re winning Super Bowls.” (McShay, paraphrased 25:13)
• Flagging the Only Two 2026 Draft QBs with ‘Superman’ Traits:
  • Cole Payton (North Dakota State)
  • Taylen Green (Arkansas; formerly Boise State)

4. Taylen Green’s Fascination: Physical Tools and Correctable Flaws (27:49-33:52)

• Kaepernick/Anthony Richardson Comparisons:
  • Massive, rare athlete: “6’5¾, 228 lbs, runs a 4.36, record-breaking jumps...”
  • “Taylor Green is not from this planet athletically.” (McShay, 35:04)
  • Richardson had a stronger arm; Green’s is good, but not elite.
  • Extensive experience: 48 (!) college starts across two programs & two conferences.
• The Real Issue:
  • “His accuracy, his ball placement...I ain’t that worried about that part really. When you know how to study the quarterback tape...if you see a difference when the feet are right and the feet aren’t right in the accuracy...that’s correctable.” (McShay, 30:59)
  • What’s NOT there yet is mental processing—reads, anticipation, timing.
  • Needs the right coaching environment and patience.
  • “He needs someone who actually knows how to overhaul mentally the process. And also that person has to have the luxury of time.” (McShay, 33:30)

5. Draft Strategy: Floor vs. Ceiling, When to Take ‘Hacks’ (QB Approach) (37:04-50:44)

• McShay and Steve Debate the Value of Day 2/3 QBs:
  • “I don’t draft a quarterback before the fourth round if I don’t think he’s going to be a starter.” (Steve, 38:16)
  • The odds: Only a small percentage of non-first-round QBs start; finding the next Purdy or Hurts is rare, but the payoff is massive.
  • “You gotta keep taking hacks.” (McShay quoting Chris Ballard, 42:32)
• Roster-Building Philosophy:
  • Is it better to “let someone else draft the backup, and sign them later” after they fail/develop elsewhere? (Steve, multiple segments)
  • Weighing whether to draft “could be” starters, high-upside lottery tickets, or sure-thing backups.

6. QB Class Stacking: Rankings, Risks, and Salaries

• McShay’s Revised Rankings:
  • 1. Mendoza
  • 2. Ty Simpson
  • 3. Cole Payton
  • 4. Taylen Green
  • 5. Garrett Nussmeier (47:58)
  • “That’s a big shake-up for me because I’ve been...I love the way Garrett Nussmeier plays the game, but I’m banking on the floor...” (McShay, 47:58)
• Debating the Ceiling:
  • Nussmeier = good backup/Floor guy (like Davis Mills).
  • “I don’t want another Brock Purdy. I don’t want another game manager...the reason they haven’t gotten over the hump” (Steve, 50:44-51:14)
  • Beck vs. Nussmeier: “If Brock Purdy can start in the NFL, Carson Beck can start in the NFL.” (Steve, 38:16)

7. Cole Payton: Gimmick or Grit? (55:07-56:50)

• Throwing Mechanics and Pros/Cons:
  • “Every time I get concerned about his...the way he throws his motion, it’s like, Philip Rivers did it, man.” (Steve, 55:31)
  • “He was a fullback for three years in a gimmick role...It is funky.” (McShay, 55:44)
  • The risk profile is different because the pressure/circumstance as a mid-round pick isn’t as extreme.

8. Development, Patience, and Destinations (59:22-65:14)

• Landing Spots Matter:
  • Best outcome for Payton or Green is time with a creative, stable coach (Reid, Shanahan, McVay, O’Connell, McDaniel, Harbaugh).
  • “If there was a quarterback God out there...those two guys would land in one of those places I just mentioned...” (McShay, 59:46)
• Should teams play high-ceiling QBs immediately?
  • “No, because I’m going to absolutely shatter that young man’s confidence.” (McShay, 61:03)
  • Organizations can ruin QBs if thrown in too soon; better to insulate, develop, and strategically deploy.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “There’s something about [Mendoza] that’s different and that different allows him to...” — McShay, 06:46
• “Most were in the high 4.3s, which is sensational.” — McShay, 09:32
• “If you hit on Jalen Hurts, or you hit on Purdy...that’s a different conversation than these developmental guys.” — McShay, 41:12
• “I don’t draft a quarterback before the fourth round if I don’t think he’s going to be a starter.” — Steve, 38:16
• “You gotta keep taking hacks.” — McShay (quoting Chris Ballard), 42:32
• “Taylor Green is not from this planet athletically.” — McShay, 35:04
• “I don’t want another Brock Purdy. I don’t want another game manager.” — Steve, 50:44
• “He needs someone who actually knows how to overhaul mentally the process. And also that person has to have the luxury of time.” — McShay, 33:52

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Fernando Mendoza’s Pro Day — 00:06–09:03
• Jermod McCoy & Indiana Pro Day DBs — 09:03–18:40
• Taylen Green ‘Epiphany’ setup — 21:03–27:49
• Breakdown of Green vs. other QBs — 27:49–33:52
• QB Draft Philosophies & Odds — 37:04–50:44
• McShay’s New QB Rankings — 47:58
• Cole Payton Mechanics and Value — 55:07–56:50
• Ideal Destinations/Development for QBs — 59:22–65:14

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Episode Takeaways

• This episode was a deep-dive into the calculus of drafting QBs with sky-high athletic ceilings but developmental needs—specifically Taylen Green, whom McShay now rates as a top “lottery ticket” QB (if in the right environment).
• The hosts also reassure that sometimes physical traits don’t overshadow preparation, poise, and leadership (see Mendoza), and that the CB/DB class is loaded with elite athletes.
• For teams drafting in 2026, striking a balance between upside and floor, and understanding the importance of organizational fit/patience, is essential—in both first-round and developmental quarterback picks.

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For NFL Draft junkies or front office nerds, this episode delivered candid, behind-the-veil thinking on how star QBs—and top coverage defenders—are found, validated, and risk-assessed on draft day.

Transcript

[Steve]

Foreign.

[McShay]

Mendoza throws and some key prospects run fast at Indiana's pro day. We've got you covered. Plus, I had a one man Jesus meeting with myself about the quarterbacks in this year's class, and I want to share it with you. And Mench, I want to share it with you. There's just 22 days until the NFL draft. You good men.

[Steve]

I'm excited, man.

[McShay]

All right, roll it, Tuck. I can't think of a more useless dog and pony show than Fernando Mendoza, the number one overall pick who we told you is already working with Brian Greasy in conjunction with Clint Kubiak as the number one over. Not presumptive, not like 99. Like he is the number one pick for the Raiders. You're listening to the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. And soon we'll all be listening to all the names called in this year's NFL Draft. But with FanDuel, you don't have to just listen because FanDuel has all kinds of bets on where players will land. You know, I love this stuff. Not only can you bet on who will be drafted first overall, but you can also bet on whether a player will go in the top five, top ten, and so much more. So if you don't already have it, be sure to download the FanDuel sportsbook app today. Must be 21 and older in select states. 18 plus in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. But yet I still watched every throw. You know, I mean, maybe I'm a sicko. I just.

[Steve]

What'd you think?

[McShay]

I'm. I thought more about just how we operated it, to be honest with you. I like the guys to come out and it's not a quarterback coach. And it's not often it's not a quarterback coach. It's. It's him, his guys, his script, their. Their collective decision on what the routes are. As he said in the in the post pro day interview, it wasn't. He wasn't looking for pro day throws. This was not about a viral moment. You know, we think back on, you know, whether. Whether it's Zach Wilson or. I don't know. We went through a string there will Levis where guys were making the viral throw. If he makes this throw he's got, he's gonna be a star in the NFL. I just thought it was kind of cool. Like any. Any exposure, you can get to the number one overall pick anytime you could see him operate the way he wants to operate. No music playing, no frills.

[Steve]

He could hear him yelling things out. Yeah, you could hear him yelling out.

[McShay]

And so did I. Take. Go ahead.

[Steve]

It wasn't as crisp as I thought it would be. And you know what?

[McShay]

I don't really.

[Steve]

I don't really care. Like, there was some balls that hung in the air, but the timing was off a little bit and it was quicker than I anticipated. They got in and out and, you know, it was. It was over almost as quickly as started.

[McShay]

And it started well, that's an Indiana practice, by the way. That's. That's just how they operate.

[Steve]

And I don't care. I. I don't care.

[McShay]

Yeah, I don't either. Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks. And we can get into a long debate about where would he stack up in next year's class if everyone plays the. But at the end of the day, the thing that makes him special, outside of the toughness. Now, granted, he's 6 5. He's up to almost £240. That's intriguing. And he looks good.

[Steve]

And look good. Yeah.

[McShay]

Yeah. As you can see here, go to theringer.com McShay this is the site that mentioned. I are thrilled. This is our baby, man. We've been working on this kind of stuff and finally found a home to do it the way we've wanted to do it. And you can see the scouting report for Mendoza there. You can find the 50 scouting reports. We're getting ready next week to drop another 50 and go top 150 board and mock 4.0. So we. We're busy, man. And I'm. I'm fired up about it. But. He's not a special elite talent. He does have that panic for the quarter count when. When pressure comes, he doesn't have that twitch and elusiveness. He is mobile when rolled out by design, which, by the way, could. Kubiak does. Likes to do a lot of that. Shanahan under center, you know, there will be shotgun and there will be a mix, but he likes to run that wide zone play action bootleg off of it. He'll do. He throws really well both sides, all that. Yeah. The passing session didn't blow you away. You know whose passing session was? Just me. Matt Ryan's. Yeah. Said like every single record brought him to a Super bowl almost Won a Super bowl, was league mvp, all those things said every record for the Atlanta Falcons, that is passing record. So, yeah, I just. It was interesting to watch if you're. If you're a deep diver and to see all, you know, the Raider brass there and to see how he was throwing. But quite quite frankly, like, yeah, it was not spectacular. It was fine. It was good. Check the box. He's healthy. Put on good weight. Just even. Listen, did you hear his post. Post, pro day interview, whatever we want to call it.

[Steve]

A little bit of it. Not all of it.

[McShay]

I don't think he sounds like a little bit like Tom brady already circa like 2010s. Like when Tom, initially in the first couple Super Bowls and early in his career is not the Tom Brady that he was. And like, I don't. I won't set an exact year, but when he got with Guerrero and he changed like he, He. I don't want to say morph, but advanced or however you want to evolve.

[Steve]

It. Yeah.

[McShay]

Evolved into Tom Brady. We know now and continues to evolve in some ways. But just listening to him and what's important to him, and not just the words, some of the even inflection, but more importantly, like the very. Just obsessive focus on what's actually important.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

And. And like, I don't know, there's. There's something about him that's different.

[Steve]

There.

[McShay]

Let's just face it. There's something about him that's different and that different allows him to. And just. I forget the phrasing. The phrasing was awesome. He was talking about, you know, not allowing your internal. Whatever he called it to. To rise in key moments. And. And, you know, the focus he has and the preparation and the clutter, you know, and a lot of people say the same things, but you can tell that it is literally he lives it, man. And. And that's going to like. Yes. Good arm. Six five. Almost 240. Mobile on. On a straight line. Throws. Throws the ball well. He's got plus arm strength. Not elite. I'd say we do A one is outstanding. One's like outstanding. Elite for us. On the five scale, five is marginal. I'd give him a two, you know, one and a half, two for. For velocity and energy on the ball. But it's the moments, it's the preparation and it's what. I know what I'm getting, man. I know it. And if. Even if that's not as good as Drake may talent wise or Caleb Williams or Jaden Daniels or even Cam Ward, And I know it's not physically. There's something that makes you rest easy and gets. Gets you excited about getting in the building every single day with someone who's going to work that way and have that approach. And Tom Brady was not Drake May or Jaden Daniels or Caleb Williams or even Cam Ward physically, but what Tom Brady was, was all of these things, you know, multiplied, Right?

[Steve]

Yeah. And I mean, even Signetti talking about his development and. And Mendoza coming over from Cal and knowing that he liked him on tape, but when he got to spring ball wasn't where he needed to be and that it was. It was a slow start for Mendoza. And then finally he started to pick it up a little bit in the fall and talked about how it was a steady arc for Mendoza. Maybe some of that's coach speak, you know, like it. It. I get it. But it sounded genuine of this kid who came in and it took him a minute to adjust, but he kept working on it, kept getting better in the fall and then hit, you know, as the season progressed, he got better. And I saw that a little bit on tape. I felt like he got better in terms of his decision making, in terms of his clock. Still. I still see the same things you do. I still think there's some issues there, but there was progress, there was development,

[McShay]

other news from all good points. And I think as we get closer to the draft, we can go some deep dive. And I want to talk through some tape and some. Some details on Fernando Minoza, but we all know what it is right now, right? As far as the big picture of this 20, 26 NFL Draft. Some interesting news on these Cornerbacks the last 48 hours, though, man. You want to share it?

[Steve]

What did Javon McCoy run? I saw the Schefter post. I had it up. Now I can't find it. Four threes, right?

[McShay]

I was texting with two different scouts. It ranged, you know, so what happens is you have your individual stopwatch, and when. Just a peek behind the curtain, when you sit there and you get your. Your own stopwatch. Right? And the schools now, it didn't used to be this way. The schools now have their own electronic device. And so there's a number that comes out where they call it the official pro day time. But all these scouts that are there, GMs and personnel people, they. They get their own number. And then what happens is you kind of turn in a group and. And what you have. I had a four, seven. Yeah, I had a four. Four, four, one. Or. Or you just show the, the watch like. Yeah, I, I was right there. 4, 3. And then, and then when the whole pro day is over because you can't be at every spot the whole time. Right. Like you run the 40s, you. But then sometimes like you're, you know, you've got the vertical jump going and this and so, so when they come together, the scouts will almost like a FCA meeting after a prayer, after a game, around the middle of the turf field, indoor field, typically. They'll all get around and there will be kind of a leader of the scouts who's reading off the. The numbers. Right. So with all of that said, I had, I was told some like 437 to 44 1. But it like most were in the fourth high four threes, which is sensational. And I want to give the background on Jermaine McCoy, please. This is a guy who got injured in January of 20. Was it January 2025? It was a 2024 C20 season.

[Steve]

Oh, yes. Yes. I'm sorry, you're right. I'm not doing it the right way in my head. Yep, It's January of 2025.

[McShay]

Right. So it doesn't play at all during the regular season for Tennessee. Number one cornerback coming in. We talked about him in the preseason 2024. Tape isn't perfect, but damn, it's good, right?

[Steve]

It's good.

[McShay]

And we've seen some corners before. Derek Stingley like checked it out, checked out in his last year. Will Johnson wasn't the same at Michigan. So with all of that as a backdrop, he's. Reports kind of differ. But at the end of the day, my understanding is like could have come back at some point during the season. Don't know exactly when that point is because different information from different people. Chose not to. Was ready to work out of the Senior bowl, was invited, chose not to. At the scene at the combine.

[Steve]

Combine.

[McShay]

Chose not to participate. And so now all of a sudden, well, it's like, yeah, he's. He's a first rounder. We know that. But we got to see him do something.

[Steve]

Yes.

[McShay]

You know, it can't be. It can't be like March, April. It can't be 15 months since we've seen him do anything but walk on a field in civvies. And so this is the first opportunity civilians. What is wrong with you? And so I, I just thought that was cool to see. To see a him just finally competing again and doing something. But then to come out and, and run that number and. Yes. Right on a straight line and it's not. But all reports already looks great. So that, so now all of a sudden I. It's not a conversation for me. But if you're pure man to man cover team and you see that 438, 437 and you go back and study his, his, his tape from 2024, I'm not saying Missouri Delane is going to be from LSU, is going to be the number one cornerback. But now all of a sudden, and we talked about it too, Chiefs need a corner sitting at number nine. Miami needs a corner sitting at 11. Dallas needs a corner sitting at 12.

[Steve]

Yep.

[McShay]

So both those guys could be off the board in the top 12 picks. And if not, I think, I think we'll see McCoy come off the board pretty soon after then. What happened today, Mitchell?

[Steve]

Well, hold on. I'm a little relieved by this, to be honest with you, because doubt was creeping into my mind about McCoy and I'm wondering if, if teams were doing the same thing, you know, what's the deal here? What's going on? Is he as athletic? Is he as fast as I thought he was watching the tape, it's reassuring that he came out and put that number down. But also for today, we'll get, we'll get right into it today, because it's today.

[McShay]

No, no, no, no, no. You know what? I. I did forget. I did forget. It's important to point out his, his jumps were good, not sensational. I'm pulling it up. I posted it yesterday. He was like, it. What, what would it be equivalent to? His vertical jump was 38 inches. Broad jump was 10 7. That would have been equivalent to tied for 10th. What?

[Steve]

Everyone's putting up ridiculous numbers. Five years ago we would have been like, dude, check this out. Like, he's unbelievable.

[McShay]

Three, eight corner at a 38.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

Now I can report, now I can report to you what that would have been at the combine would be tied for 10th. These guys like just, it's.

[Steve]

The numbers have gotten silly. So I'm not worried.

[McShay]

I mean that's a broad jump of 27. Like 11 foot broad jump was like record breaking, like during our, like midway through our careers in this. And now a 10 7, 107 would have been 13th tied for.

[Steve]

When you said it, when you said it, I was like, I thought he jumped to 10 7. I thought he like, I mean that's pretty good. And you're like, no, 107 would have been 10th at the combine. I mean, I went through, by the way. Been looking for just behind the scenes a little bit Here going through and trying to find comps for defensive backs. And what I'll look is and see like what, what guys ran similar times. When you pull up the top performers and you look at the, at the combine, see how many safeties are in the top 10 from this last combine, how many corners, the, the speeds, the, the. These, this class blew it up. I mean, the numbers are ridiculous. It's hard finding guys that worked out the same way they did five, six years ago. So just to give you a little bit of background on that, but let's get back to Indiana. I mean, it's been a great year and I think it was a good day for a lot of prospects. We said in our last show that we didn't think that the corner d' Angelo Pons was going to run, who we both love, undersized corner, had a 43 and a half inch vertical at the combine. I mean, just jump through the roof. Physical, tough, player on tape. And we were kind of bummed. We're like, we wanted a time. We wanted to see how fast this kid was. Well, apparently he went out today and ran a low 40 threes. I mean, that is just checking a box in a major way. I mean, that's a, I mean that's just a blazing fast time.

[McShay]

Yeah. And at 58 and 58 inches, under 59, 182 pounds, he was at the combine. As you can see here on our scouting report against the Ringer.com McShay or the McShay NFL Draft room, featuring heavily Steve Mensch. You needed him to run a good time. You know, I was physically needed, but

[Steve]

I really wanted it. I really wanted it. I mean, if you're going to take a guy who's. That you needed it.

[McShay]

You're going to have a high grade. If you're gonna pound that table for a guy that you love on tape, which a lot of us do, and I think I do a little bit more than you. After our, after our session on Monday. And I understandably, the points you make, it's got, it's got to be accompanied with a good time, at least like a 4, 4, 4, 4 1. And now you get that, that fourth. Now we're talking. I mean, I just read that whatever you believe from these pro days, that one scout reported he had a 427. So I don't know if he was overly caffeinated. But the point is the dude is, is fast. And, and it equates to like if he had a 37 inch vertical and ran a 4, 3, 1. I like that doesn't. Yeah, that's a, that's a pro day time. He had a 43 and a half inch vertical. Those guys who jump that high almost always run fast. And so, so that's the depth of this cornerback class is, is really good. You know, it's. It's good through like three rounds. And Pons is going to be one of those guys on day two that comes off the board. And whether he plays outside or in or in the slot or a mixture of both, he's just a damn good football player. And now we've got these explosive numbers to go with, to go with that tape.

[Steve]

I think it's the defensive back class, too. I mean, they. We've got some safeties at the top, we've got some nickel prospects. I mean, I just watched Trading Stoos from Arizona and I like, I am in love with him as a player in today's NFL. Oh, he's. He's going to be so good, I think. I mean, this is a very deep, deep defensive back class with a few guys at each position at the top that are really intriguing. So.

[McShay]

All right, a couple other times, just while we're at it, Elijah Surat, who's another day later, day two prospect, he ran in the low four fives from what we can. What we gleam and then. And then. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's what he is on tape. And then Kaylin Black, the running back who you and I both high on great week at the Senior bowl, as you said. He hugs his blocks like he's a guy who's efficient. He gets what's there. He ran the low four fours. I was excited to see that for him.

[Steve]

Combine, snub. Yeah, Yeah, I get it.

[McShay]

That he.

[Steve]

You don't. You don't know what you're getting. I think he had four catches this year. I mean, you don't really know what you're getting on third down. But as a runner, the talent as a runner, I really thought he should have been invited.

[McShay]

All right, so. So that covers that for now. And we're kind of winding down on these pro days. This is the last big one from, from what I, what I can see on the schedule. The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. Do you guys know that you can bet on the NFL draft with Fanduel? That's right. You can bet on everything, including which team will draft which player over unders on draft positions, what position a team takes first, and of course, who's going number one overall. I don't like those odds there. Basically, if it's draft related, you can probably bet on it. I'm just telling you right now. The one I'm most fascinated by is Ty Simpson. Where does he land? He's definitely going in the first round, everyone says. I can't find a team right now that will take him in the first round. Arizona. If you ask me right now that could be the team that's probably in the pole position, but also the Rams. There's a connection there. If you can get the good odds on the on Ty Simpson of the Rams, that's something to investigate. Okay, so if you want the chance to turn your mock draft into some real cash, FanDuel is your place to get in on the action. Just open up the FanDuel app and you're officially on the clock. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut quick Pause. This might help you getting into gardening TikTok has simple tips that actually work.

[Steve]

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[McShay]

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[McShay]

I wanted to have this conversation with you and we talked about it yesterday. We got on the on a call together and I want to take it there in a second, but I'm going to lead with this. This coming to Jesus meeting I had last night inside.

[Steve]

What's this look like? Set the tone. I to set the scene. I want to know where you're at. I want to Is this a Jerry Maguire situation where you had a bad piece of pizza and you Woke up at 2 o' clock in the morning sweating and you went downstairs and opened

[McShay]

up the all right, you want the scene? I'll give you the scene where you

[Steve]

want to walk with Marissa along the ocean and you and you.

[McShay]

I took my walk earlier in the Day I had. I had three calls, which I don't love calls ever. Three or wound up being four because Dan dragged me into another one which was a necessary evil and we have to do it. And I get it. But like now, all day I'm doing calls and so I get done with those calls. And in the meantime I'm. I'm re racking our top 150 board, trying to get it set for the release next week. As close as we can. Dan's pushing back on that. Dan's a pain in the ass this week, but you know, we love them. So. Anyway, so that's kind of my day. I'm watching tape. I'm. I'm here, I'm in a meeting, I'm watch tape. I'm in a meeting again. We call and then finally I sit down and I do a. I do. I finish up a player. I go downstairs. 5 South Main. Local restaurant. Got takeout. I don't have time for big dinners right now. I'll see you.

[Steve]

I know.

[McShay]

Okay.

[Steve]

Right.

[McShay]

Take out chicken parm. Thrilled. Right? Get a little caffeine in me after. I'm coming back up here to work to like 10, 10, 30. Turn out to be 11.

[Steve]

Yep.

[McShay]

Sat down after I'd already watched all the other top quarterbacks I watched during the season. Taylin Green, I saw him live, standing next to him, had a great experience and watched Taylor Green. I finished up all. I watched the whole gamut last night. Knew who he was before. You know, when you're done like you could, you. You can stop, but you're gonna see it. And the more I walked.

[Steve]

Happens all the time.

[McShay]

I wound up sweatpants, hoodie, I think hat backwards. Slides on my house. My house. Ugg slides I got for Christmas, which kind of wasn't. I'm not a slide guy like, but I love them now. That's the scene in this office. Lights down, tape on.

[Steve]

All right, now it's starting to get weird.

[McShay]

And I stopped it. And I started going back and looking through the NFL and I started going back and look and looking at my reports and I started thinking to myself, you know, what if they're not a Mendoza or even a Simpson, potentially. Right. Ty Simpson. What are we trying to get here? And I. There's some clarity that came in my head of there's really two options after that point. One is I'm trying to bring in a guy who could potentially develop and become a starter and is functional and is smart and is. And. And is most importantly, in the long term, Maybe if it doesn't work out as a starter is a T. Is a glorified, highly paid teacher's aid. Is. Is doing the, he's the. Doing all the assignments for the starter. He's. He's ready, he's getting answers, he's doing tendencies, all that stuff. And then I've got this other category that doesn't work out very well very often. It doesn't, it doesn't turn into something very often, but it has. And when it does, whether it's Colin Kaepernick or Jaylen Herzler, go back to like him. Dak Prescott is the first. When was, when was Colin Kaepernick drafted? At what point anyway. But even, Even if it's mid late first or second or third or fourth. Yeah, it's a guy. Joe Milton.

[Steve]

Okay.

[McShay]

Came compensation for the Patriot, but he fits in that category. Right. Okay. Developmental guy. Who's. If, if we do, if we do hit it out of the park, we get something. We're winning Super Bowls or we're chasing them hard. Right. And there's two guys in this class that could be that.

[Steve]

Right.

[McShay]

And it's Cole Payton from North Dakota State who we've talked a little bit about and we can get to him a little bit more. And it's tailing Green.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

So I love Garrett Nussmeier. I've been, I've done. I've been driving the nuts bus since August, since July at the. June, July at the Manning Passing Academy. And I really liked him last season. I saw the ups and downs, was excited for. And he was injured all year. He got injured in fall camp. But the ceiling difference is like this. If you're watching on Netflix or Spotify, it's.

[Steve]

It's not even.

[McShay]

Yeah, right. But the readiness gap is also in reverse order like that. Okay. Like Cole Payton ain't ready to go. He threw the ball 256 times at North Dakota State. He was a running back playing quarterback. Also lined up at running back gadget guy for three years and through like 175 passes or something like that as a full time starter this past year. Okay, I'm with you. 136 passes, but he's got low. But he's mobile. He's strong, he can run, he can get some things done. Short yardage. Taylor Green, tailing Green. And I know this isn't like surprising to anyone, but I was looking at Taylor Green. Let's compare him because I, I think stylistically, even down to the unorthodox, Unorthodox throwing motion. Tailing Green, the Arkansas quarterback who checked in at a ridiculous. What was he, 6 foot 5? Why do I not have it right here? I'll pull it up.

[Steve]

Keep going.

[McShay]

Sorry. 6, 5 and basically 6, 6, 6, 5 and 78 inches. 228 pounds. He stylistically looks a lot like Colin Kaepernick. Right? A young Kaepernick. Also, experience wise, you got to remember Taylor Green. Yeah, he was a two year starter at Arkansas, but he also was a two year starter. He started 22 games at Boise State back in 2022, 20, 23 transfers to Arkansas, starts another 24 games.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

So he's got 48 starts. Cap had 51 starts at Boise State. Okay. At Nevada, but yes, sorry, Nevada, Nevada. So. And cap threw for 10,000 yards. He threw for 5,900 yards. Taylor Green did it at Arkansas. And you combine it all, it's. And, and he ran the ball. Taylor Green did 500 four times. CAP ran it 600 times. They're very similar profiles that way, but one is 6, 5 and 7, 8 inches. 228 pounds. Runs a 4, 3, 6. Verified at the combine with a 1 5, 2 split, which is absurd. Receiver time.

[Steve]

It's silly.

[McShay]

And record breaking jumps of 43 1/2 inch for D' Angelo Pons, a cornerback at 5 8, had a 43 1/2 inch vertical. He had 6, 6 at quarterback. Had a 43 1/2 inch vertical and an 11, 2 broad. Anthony Richardson is the most in terms of like a profile, athletic, explosive profile is the closest two and we said at that time. And Anthony Richardson has a, has a stronger arm. There's no question significantly. You see the difference?

[Steve]

Yep, yep.

[McShay]

Taylor Green has a good arm. Anthony Richardson's a one, right. Yeah.

[Steve]

He's a different cat. Yeah.

[McShay]

But Anthony Richardson, nearly 2 inches shorter, 16 pounds heavier. He ran a 4, 4, 3 slower. 153 slightly slower in the 10 split. 40 and a half inch vertical. 3, 3 inches below 10, 10, 9 broad. So even the guy that we was like this, this guy doesn't exist. You know, he's, he's across the board outside of weight. Across the board better. I don't know. I just. So I'm watching.

[Steve]

I feel like someone else has been making this argument. I can't put my, my finger on it.

[McShay]

But I, I should have started with this. You have been pushing for this tailing Green thing and you're right. I couldn't get some of the throws from when I watched in the fall and broke down his tape out of my head. And I watched him last night. I was starting to get really excited about the Auburn game. He was making some throws.

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Here's.

[McShay]

He was making some throws, right? And he was kind of a little bit of anticipation. He's got a deep ball that he drops in and then he throws three picks. They're like, they're towards the end of the game. Like three of his last important plays are interceptions. And I'm watching the Texas game and he's running and he's doing that. But here's the thing with Taylon Green. His accuracy, his ball placement and his accuracy numbers and all that are not great. I ain't that worried about that part really. When you know how to study the quarterback. Quarterback tape, I'm get. I'm just saying there guy, if you see a difference when the feet are right and the feet aren't right in the accuracy, the ball placement, then that's correctable. This stuff is correctable. Now is it a fixable flaw? Yeah, that it is. App. The accuracy part is a fixable flaw. Everything for tailing Green stems from his mental process.

[Steve]

Okay.

[McShay]

It's not, it's not right yet. Smart guy picked up things we watched and we had a vantage point from the field level at the Senior bowl watching him get better every single day. Picking up, I think it was the Minnesota Vikings, one of their coaches was the quarterback coach that week. Doing a really nice job with some of the footwork stuff, but also picking up like where your eyes are supposed to be. When I watch him, right. I'm watching a guy that like he, he lacks the line of scrimmage conviction. He doesn't have the pre snap indicators or post snap coverage awareness of a Ty Simpson or a Garrett Nussmeyer who by the way grew up with a football in their hands at practices. For Simpson, it's a dad who's 20 years head coach at what, Middle Tennessee State or UT Tennessee.

[Steve]

Martin.

[McShay]

Yeah, yeah, UT Martin. And Nuss Meyer's dad is an NF quarterback turn quarterbacks coach turn OC now with the Saints. But his mental process isn't there. He doesn't understand what he's looking at in terms of coverage assignments and what, what they're showing him. So what happens is, is a long leverage, 6 foot 6 guy when his eyes are late to something. First of all he's, he's making bad mistakes, right? He's making bad decisions.

[Steve]

Right.

[McShay]

The other part that affects his accuracy is when his eye, when you're rushed and you don't think about Mendoza. We talk about two by two. Two receivers here, two receivers there. Read in the corner. Corner goes, here we go there. Corner goes, there we go here. He does it with conviction. RPO stuff. Bang, bang. Eyes are where they're supposed to be. Balls out. He trusts, and it's what makes him so decisive. Talin doesn't trust it yet.

[Steve]

Right.

[McShay]

So all I could get into my head last night was I can draft this guy and I promise you, it could be late. First, he's that freaking talented. But it's most likely second or third, and it ain't going to be on day three. I can draft this guy on the second day of the draft and maybe I get my Jalen. Hurts isn't a good comp now, but he did win two Super Bowls because everyone's talking about hurts and all the problems in Philly. But give me the.

[Steve]

Give me a break with drama in Philly again.

[McShay]

The.

[Steve]

The drama in Philly. It's all Jay's fault when he's had six play callers.

[McShay]

But if I get him with the names I just jotted down last night, he needs two things. He needs someone who actually knows how to overhaul mentally the process. And also that person has to have the luxury of time.

[Steve]

This is something that's overlooked, and I just want to point it out and is able to connect with Talon in a way that, you know, they say the great teachers, it's not what they know, it's their ability to share that information with their student. It's what they can get their student to learn. That's what great teachers are. And that's what's interesting about these, you know, these interviews. Not to go too much in the weeds here. Is there a connection with that player where you feel like he can come in here and I could really help him? Or is it a situation where you guys just don't. Where guys just don't, you know, for what the kids would say vibe, you

[McShay]

know, if I'm Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh, Koc, Kevin OConnell.

[Steve]

Yep.

[McShay]

Harbaugh, SLM, McDaniel.

[Steve]

Okay.

[McShay]

Those are the names that immediately. That doesn't mean that they're the only ones. All of those guys are the best of the best. There's an elite class, and then there's everybody else trying to be. Yes, La Flores are really good, and there's other people in the tree, but all of those guys now currently have a little time and could also use especially like an Andy Reid. Take some. Maybe Take some short yardage stuff, whatever it is off of. Off of Patrick Herbert coming off the injury and stuff. You know the creativity with McDaniel and Harbaugh.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

O' Connell bringing in. Do we think Kyler's like the long term. That's the. Wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like that you're developing on the back end? Shanahan, it would change. No, I know. I'm just saying.

[Steve]

I know.

[McShay]

I hear what you're saying. I'm seeing this and those guys see it even better than I do. And some of this. Here's the difference between so. So Cole Payton has some of these things. Mobility, the ability to create like upside needs time. 136 passes last year, 256 in his career. Not there yet. But the difference between the two is one guy is Superman. Taylor Green is not from this planet athletically. The other guy is a really good strong athlete. Tim Tebow esque but is a much better passer and has played in a pro style system with pro style verbiage. It's one of the reason those North Dakota State like their process and their. And they're like play calling verbiage is so NFL like it helps in the, in the projection from FCS to NFL. So one guy is a better passer, better mental processor right now good athlete, not great. The other guy is fixable in the areas that he. That he's not good at right now. And if you get him there and I'm already seeing against Texas, you know good that fucking Auburn defense was last year. Some of the things that he did against Auburn, the SEC for two years, he's not coming in. And one guy, Cole Payton is a one year starter at the fc.

[Steve]

Watered down, watered down FCS man.

[McShay]

The other guys got 48 starts. Two at Boise State which is higher than FCS and then two in the SEC. I'm telling you man, if I've. If I'm one of these coaches, yeah both of these guys in different, different regards but same same concept of. I love Garrett Nussmeier. Maybe he's a. He's a solid, solid good starter. All of that. Even I love Ty Simpson. He's going to be a good starter. In my mind he's going to be a solid to good starter. He's going to. He's going to take a hack at that. But everybody out like Drew Aller. Get out of here. Carson Beck is a big strong kid who's played a lot of ball and he's a good player. Doesn't have a big time arm. Not mobile. He's a backup in the NFL.

[Steve]

I'm not convinced of that, but go on. I get what you're saying. I'm not convinced of that. I think there's other quarterbacks who are, you know, with similar kind of mobility. They, they play in the NFL. I, I get what you're saying. I mean, here's.

[McShay]

Look, let's. Yeah, go ahead.

[Steve]

If Brock Purdy can start in the NFL. Carson Beck can start in the NFL. It's about, it's a matter of landing in the right place and it's a. And, and I have, you know, there's a deeper conversation that I wanted to get into with you. I feel like you're riffing right now. I want to let you finish your point, but I will just plant the seed right now. I don't draft a quarterback before the fourth round if I don't think he's going to be a starter. And I don't think some of these guys that we like on tape, I'm not comfortable enough to believe that they're going to be a starter like Nussmeier. I love the tape. Not enough starts, small gets hurt. I'm not, I mean like I think he's probably going to be a backup in the league. I'm not really interested because just look at the rosters. Who's the best backup in the league? That was drafted by the team. That backup for now.

[McShay]

So, so drafted by the team. I'll say this. Non. First. Non first round quarterbacks drafted that are projected to start week one this year.

[Steve]

Correct. Malik Willis, third round, not drafted by Miami. Yep, go ahead.

[McShay]

I hear you. Geno Smith is back with the jets, but yes, Shador Sanders is in here, so not applicable. But fifth round, Jalen Hurts, second round with the team. Tyler Shuck also just like Shador, same draft class, second round. Obviously there's no pattern to this. I was just going through the depth charts and cross checking. Tyler Shuck, second round going into second year. Brock Purdy, seventh round. He's. He's the. Not the unicorn. He's the, he's the all time outlier. Jacoby Brissette, third round, which like for as much the conversation. We just had a conversation recently, it's like what was like point. It was like 8% chance that someone you draft after the first round is going to wind up being your guy. Right. Because. And that's based off of all like 10 years of drafting quarterbacks. And, and yes, 77, 78% of the league is starting at quarterback next year. Going into the year is projected to be first round quarterbacks. And then you take all the other guys. And so I just listed you 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 quarterbacks who are projected to be starters who were not first round picks. That makes up 22% of the league. But think about all the other guys who were drafted in rounds two through seven. There's an average of like 12 quarterbacks drafted every year.

[Steve]

Right, Right.

[McShay]

And so if there's an average of like three quarterbacks in the first round, you're talking about nine other guys. And so you're hitting. Obviously the numbers work out. But, but, but if you hit on Malik, if you hit on Jalen, hurts. If you hit on Purdy, which is a different conversation than these developmental guys.

[Steve]

It is.

[McShay]

But if you hit on shock, you're paying them nothing for five years.

[Steve]

It's the Russell Wilson thing, man. It's the Russell Seattle. Yeah. When Seattle got Russell Wilson in the third, I think was the third, I mean, it made all the difference in the world. And then you have to be smart about how you do it. And of course Schneider was. I mean, he built this amazing team around him.

[McShay]

Yeah. But when they had to start paying him, things changed for a while. And then went and tore things up last off season and had been building, but had to make a couple key tough decisions. DK's gone, Geno's gone. Bring in Sam.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

And we're going to load up on draft picks and we're going to go back to our roots. Right. Starting with Gray Zable, who had a great rookie year as a starting guard. But my point in all of this is. In a draft, like there's some really good players in round two and really good players in round three. I've talked to so many GMs and the ones that don't have them quarterbacks, that is, if you don't have your guy. They all say the same thing. And even a couple of them said it when we talked to them at the combine. So you got to hear it firsthand yourself, Steve. You got to take hacks.

[Steve]

Yeah, you do.

[McShay]

You got to keep taking hacks. And I think I did the one one sit down with, with our guy, Chris Ballard from Indianapolis. Awesome dude. Really good GM has done, honestly, like as good a job. He's in the top tier of what he's done, personnel wise, building that roster, all the things. But he hasn't been able to get the quarterback. But he's keep taking hacks. That's what he said not those aren't my. That's not me reflecting on what he's done. It's him saying how important is you. I remember talking to Rick Spielman when he was with the Vikings. The missed on Christian. Christian Ponder and they couldn't. Spielman was, was the like Ballard's kind of the modern day Spielman. Rick and I are close but. And Rick like annually put together these rosters that were among the best 3, 4, 5 teams in the league except they couldn't get the quarterback exactly right or right at all. And so but he having those conversations with him back in when was pondered after like 2010 ish. 2012.

[Steve]

That'd be around then.

[McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah you might be right. 2010, that's pretty good.

[McShay]

Just gotta, just gotta keep taking hacks. And so with that mindset it's good but then also the great ones, even when they got one, aren't afraid to take a hack on a backup. How did we get. How did we get Aaron Rodgers? How do we get Jordan Love?

[Steve]

But those were. Here's the thing, I hear what you're saying. That was a succession plan. That wasn't a hack. That was we need one. We know we're going to need one. We know that Brett Farr's leaving. We know that Aaron Rodgers is leaving. That's not a hack at a backup. And this is my point in this Howie Roseman.

[McShay]

Howie Roseman, Jaylen Herz, he had a, he had a quarterback. He just paid. Yeah yeah. Second round.

[Steve]

He goes second round guy that has a. But the, those are the guys that I, that, that's a hack. But you take that hack because Jalen Hurts has a unique skill set and

[McShay]

that's my whole point with Cole Payton and, and with Taylor Green. No, I'm with a team that we're, we're talking about the same teams that need a quarterback. Steve. We're talking the same teams every single, every single week on the show for the last nine weeks we've been talking about well the jets are waiting till 2027. We're not sure the Cardinals are they going to move up for Ty Simpson? They need a quarter for the future. We're talking about obviously the Raiders are going to get their guy. Miami brings in, brings in Malik, maybe they could still, I don't know. It's the same. The Steelers. What's the succession plan for if Aaron Rodgers is 100% in? What's the succession? So it's the same team. The Browns. The Browns waiting for 2027, which I've been trying to tell everyone that for, for over a month now and, and now we're at the owners meetings and, and Shefter and, and couple other guys. That was the news out of there. Like I don't think they're going to take a quarterback but it doesn't have to be one of those teams. In fact, for the good of Cole Payton and for the good of Taylor Green, I hope it's not one of those teams. I want it to be an Andy Reid or Shanahan McVeigh, an O' Connell LA floor, Harbaugh McDaniel coached team that doesn't need him in year one or even year two, but can get him ready because there's going to be an injury, something's going to happen or it's great trade compensation two, three years down the road because he looks awesome in training camp and he starts three games over two seasons.

[Steve]

You know, like Milton. Yeah, that's what you're getting at. I I just said I so here's what, here's what's interesting to me and I think it's. It really comes down to a Nussmeier argument for me and whether you not and I think this ties into the Purdy conversation in that I really like what Brock Pie's done and it's a great story and all of that, but I also wonder if that's the reason why they can't get over the hump sometimes. And I know they've had all kinds of injuries, but that roster is absolute insane. And he's good enough. Brock Purdy is good enough to get you there, but is he good enough to win it for you? And when you get into another guy like Nussmire who could be good enough to get you there and good enough to be competitive but not the guy that makes the difference when it matters. I don't want to. That's why I get scared about drafting those guys in the first two days. That's I.

[McShay]

That's the coming to G. That's the coming to not exactly okay, but it's the coming to Jesus meeting I had with myself last night in this office. Lights dim hat backwards slides on. Yeah, my I. I've changed my my rankings these quarterbacks. And I don't think anyone really cares because if it's not about Nussmeier, Ty Simpson, no one seems to care and that's fine too. But one day they might care. One day they might care where Jalen Hurts is drafted or Malik Willis is Drafted because one day it may matter. I've got Mendoza one, Simpson two, Cole Payton three, tailing Green four, just behind Cole Payton and Garrett Nuss Meyer five.

[Steve]

Interesting.

[McShay]

And that's a big shake up for me because I've been. I, I love the way Garrett Nussmeier plays the game, but I'm banking on the floor being the Garrett Nussmeyer is an awesome extension of his dad as a QB coach and an offensive coordinator who can for the next 10 plus years be a great backup and can win us some games. Davis Mills.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

I'm counting on Nuss Meyer to be Davis Mills and if he exceeds that, wonderful.

[Steve]

But here's the problem. Davis Mills is a unique situation and I'm looking at who are the best backups in the league and I think that Davis Mills is one of the best backups. But you like how he got there. That, that baptism by fire was a horrific situation in Houston. They had to start him for two years and he started 26 games and they lost a hell of a lot of those games and he struggled and he's now developed into that guy that's a backup. But that wasn't the plan. I mean, then obviously with the desean Watson situation, that was never the plan that he was going to have to do that. So that's what you got. Here's what I would say to you. You I'll let somebody else draft Garrett Nussmeier and let him go play somewhere else for two years and then I'll sign him to a contract. That's what everyone else is doing, whether it's a Joe Flacco or an Andy Dalton later on in their career. You want to take a chance on the Sam Howell, who I think is a pretty good backup even though he hasn't played a lot of football recently.

[McShay]

But Spencer, Drew Locke, Jared Spencer Rattler's

[Steve]

an interesting situation because that's another one to keep an eye on. He was a guy drafte the Saints. That's another one. But these other guys like Drew Lock, who've played somewhere else and gotten their experience there.

[McShay]

Yeah, but Rattler's going somewhere else.

[Steve]

He probably will. You're right, he probably will. So I'm gonna sign one of those guys. I'm not going to draft him. I don't want to draft him. I'll draft the kid like a joke.

[McShay]

That's fair.

[Steve]

You know what I mean?

[McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So when we're talking about Nussm, like, yeah, I don't know, Carson Beck, I'm

[McShay]

willing to take a Chance I can get a starting nickel or a rotation interior defensive lineman. I can get Daryl Jackson Jr. Who could be, be a big hit for, for us in our interior defensive line in the third round. I could get, I could get Elijah Surat, who could be a number four receiver initially and be an outside guy and back shoulder fade and possession guy. Yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I don't totally disagree with you.

[Steve]

So, like, we could play this out.

[McShay]

You and I grade Nuss Meyer a little differently, and so I think I still have him in a, In a point where I believe he can be a starter in this league. Great.

[Steve]

I don't want a guy who could be a starter. I want a guy who's going to want a Super bowl for me. I don't want. I'll be honest with you.

[McShay]

I.

[Steve]

Again, Brock Purdy. I don't want Brock Purdy. I don't want another Brock Purdy. I don't want another game manager. I think of, Think about this.

[McShay]

Think about Pie has. I. I get it.

[Steve]

Think of, Think of Sean.

[McShay]

I'll take Brock Purdy. We've been, like, minutes away from winning a Super bowl with Brock Purdy.

[Steve]

That. Those rosters are insane. The coaching staff is insane.

[McShay]

I know.

[Steve]

I mean, I'll say this. Think about Sean McVeigh with Jared Goff.

[McShay]

I know. Same, Same mindset.

[Steve]

He was good, man.

[McShay]

The mindset that you're speaking of right now is what happened with McVeigh and Goff.

[Steve]

But I need a different dude here. I need a Matt Stafford. I need that guy. I need to bring that guy in. That's the guy. You're like, those are the kind of guys you want to go get, man. That's it. And like, again, no offense to Brock Purdy, who's a perfectly serviceable starting quarterback, but that's, I mean, there's a reason. I feel like there's a reason they haven't gotten over the hump. And a lot of it's the injuries. I understand that, but I'm just telling you, like, that's. I see, I see a lot of Brock Purdy when I look at Nussmire. Except Birdie played a lot more games, but, like, that, that, that's it for me. Do you want a guy who's gonna come in here and, like, can he be the guy when it matters the most? And Nussmeier? Maybe.

[McShay]

And you think Carson Beck can be that guy?

[Steve]

I do. And I do. Because he's played a lot of football. He's got a big frame. You look at the, you look at

[McShay]

his, he doesn't have a big arm and he, and he's not mobile and he can't throw the deep ball very successfully.

[Steve]

Has been inaccurate there. Yep. I'm willing to take I, I, so yeah, let me, let me clean up the argument there.

[McShay]

So you like more than Nussmeier, you're saying? Correct.

[Steve]

And I'm not taking, I'm not taking Beck in the first two rounds. But if he's there in the third round, I might think about it. I'm taking him definitely before Nussmeier because I think I have, I have more there than when I do with Nussmeier.

[McShay]

Yeah, I mean a lot of red flags. You're not, you're not alone in that. The, the one I can't, and I know a big thing, the one I can't understand is that people still have like second, third round grade on, on Drew out Drew Aller.

[Steve]

By the way, I love Nel Spires tape. I do like his tape and I really, I like, I'm, I like, I like the way he was at the Senior Bowl. He seems like a super likable dude. Like, he seems like a great guy. I feel like that there's just, it just feels like backup. And I don't want to draft a backup. I want my backups to go somewhere else. Lose a lot of games for somebody else and then we'll sign them.

[McShay]

Yeah, I mean philosophically. I don't, I, I, I, I would have a hard time disagreeing with you. And I think we're in, in a roundabout way. We have different grades on Nussmeier and Beck, so we're like my, your back is my. Nussmeyer in round three. I don't take back before the fourth round. I, I, I put Al or low enough so someone else drafts him. SAWYER Robertson's a 6 7th for me if I can get him. And, and I like, I say that because like I actually like him. Baron Morton, I would bring him in as a as. And then hopefully we develop him into a Davis Mills type or something, you know. But understand. But that's, those are day three guys to me. Okay.

[Steve]

Yeah. Let someone else draft all his. Luke Altmeyer from Illinois is gonna go later.

[McShay]

Yeah, he's gonna be great. Go somewhere in the league.

[Steve]

And then four years from now I'm going to call his agent and be like, hey, you know, we'd love to have Luke come in and, and we'll sign him in this deal because I think Luke Goldmeyer is going to Be an outstanding backup in the league. I think that's. He's built for that. So that's all true. I also do have Tayin Green ahead of. I mean, the FCS darling for one year has one of the best receivers in the country running around defenses like it's a. It's like recess football. It's. I mean, I like.

[McShay]

Who else? Who else likes Col Pit? I have not heard a single word about Cole Payton in this draft process.

[Steve]

Oh, maybe it's just you. Maybe I just. You know what, I just live in a bubble and I just listen to you and I just assume that like you shape reality. That's. I mean, I don't know what else to do about it, but. Yeah, I can't tell you. I just can't get there.

[McShay]

What I'm hearing on Cole Payton is he's going to be a day two pick. What I'm telling you is I think he's got a chance to be a starter in the league and I think if developed properly. Get me Cole Payton or Taylor Green with one of those guys I just mentioned and check back in a couple years. I just, I don't know how much of a concern.

[Steve]

I want to talk about this with Peyton because I think you've made a really good point about this on X and let's, let's dig in a little bit more on him. How much is the concern? And I'll kind of answer my own question before I throw it to you. How much of a concern is the throwing style? And I'll say this to you, every time I get concerned about his. The way he throws his motion, it's like Philip Rivers did it, man. And Philip Rivers, damn good long freaking.

[McShay]

I swear to you.

[Steve]

Is that what you see too?

[McShay]

Yeah, exactly. I, I told you I had, I had cold sweats when I put on the first like 10 plays of North Dakota State because I'm like, it's Tebow again. It's Tebow.

[Steve]

Here we go.

[McShay]

He was a fullback for three years in a gimmick role. Gets the starting job. He's got a tight upper body. He's got that like shot put kind of, you know, it is funky. You notice it right away. Funky. Oh, my gosh. And he's a lefty. It's Tebow again. I can't, you know, and then I, and then I work through it and I saw, honestly, I just were like hitting spots.

[Steve]

He's just like A to B right now.

[McShay]

Now he takes too many sacks. He holds on to the ball too Long, the clock's got to speed up, hasn't played enough ball, all of it. But we're not talking about the same list of people that were failures in the league or really didn't live up to the, to the hype or the expectation as a first round pick. That list is completely different. There is no list with second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh round draft picks that were one year starters. The list exists with the Mark Sanchez's and the Anthony Richardsons and the Mitchell Trubiskies and down to 1999, my first year in scouting. Achilles Smith.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah.

[McShay]

That list exists because the first round pressure that comes with it. I got news for you. Tyler Schuck doesn't start a bunch of games last year. Comes in for two or three, looks okay, no problem.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

Jackson darts picked what, what was it, 20, 20 second. He's picked like 20 picks ahead of him. But it's the first round. In the second, we sniffed any trouble, you know, in the medal.

[Steve]

Yes.

[McShay]

With, with, with dangerous Wilson. It was let's go and he better play well. And he did. But, but he. Yeah, I don't know. I just had clarity.

[Steve]

I love it.

[McShay]

These are two guys that actually have the tools to be starting quarterbacks in the NFL. And it's more than just the tools. Anthony Richardson's the best example of all time. But I've got a guy who's got Anthony Richardson, plus athleticism, plus starts, who started 48 freaking games, bro. Yes. And I'm watching him in the way he's absorbing information at the Senior bowl and how he's adjusting and his footwork in the quick game is better on Wednesday than it was on Tuesday and better on Thursday than it was on Wednesday. And he's kind of figuring out, okay, this is where my eyes have to go. You get. And with all due respect, I thought he did a wonderful job. I don't remember his name at the time and it's probably good for this circumstance, but this was an assistant coach who's getting an opportunity to coach quarterbacks from the Minnesota Vikings at the Senior bowl. And he was able to get that kind of in just a few days, that progress out of him. Now you get me with Andy or Jim or Sean or Kyle, Kevin, like, I don't know, I bet on it. I'd bet on it and I would pass up. I would pass up for both Cole Payton and Taylor Green. I would pass up a potential starter for the chance to take this quiet hack in day two. And it could be the franchise changing and if it's not, it's not right. It's the nature of this position. There's no position that makes up for more sins that, that erases more evils than the quarterback position.

[Steve]

It's true. And then you get that. Let's say he starts year two. I mean it will be interesting to see how that all plays out because these guys aren't starting as rookies but they've started in year two and on a four year contract. Like years of that being able to manage your roster in a different way than you would if you were paying starting like you know, upper end starting quarterback money. Like it just, it just, it's a tremendous help if you can find a guy there.

[McShay]

Yeah. And if he goes to one of those places I'm talking about and I have no information, I'm just saying this is that like if, if there was a quarterback God out there who was trying to do the right thing by every quarterback draft, those two guys would land in one of those places I just mentioned for the, the luxury of time and for the, the small handful, probably two handfuls, less than two handfuls of coaches that can do it at that high of a level that can actually develop the, the mental process and, and get them up to speed and, and even drilling home the little things. Yeah. And who knows what happens to your starter. Like this is a, it's a crazy league whether there's an injury or a decline. And if not then you got to trade for a second round pick or something in three years from now. And because he, he's ready to go shine. I don't know.

[Steve]

Would you get on board with. Would you do this? And I know that the jets got Gino. Let's say the jets don't get Geno or you know, we'll just play this game in a bubble. Is there an argument to be made that if you think you can get Taylor Green in the third round is the jets, that you just get him and you start him right away, you play him right away because you're thinking

[McShay]

to yourself no, because I'm going to absolutely shatter that young man's confidence.

[Steve]

Well you don't. Here's the thing. I'm going to be upfront about this. I hear what you're saying. Why do they care? They.

[McShay]

I let Gino play the Russ Russell Wilson role.

[Steve]

Okay.

[McShay]

But later into the season to let him take all the, the, the beatings. Let's try to get better on both sides of the ball for later in the. So maybe we give him a Few starts. No, you will know.

[Steve]

You won't know what you have.

[McShay]

12, 13. Yes, I will. I'll get four or five starts in the NFL. And it's not about knowing what I have. It's about getting him some reps. No, but that's also an investment. You gotta remember this is an investment. I don't. I'm not taking my investment and throwing it out on the highway.

[Steve]

I'm saying the approach.

[McShay]

I'm gonna let it go. Like drive the back roads first.

[Steve]

You know, we're gonna see if we. I hear you. I hear what you're saying.

[McShay]

That investment because. Because there's so little exposure for these quarterbacks. We're talking about a league right now that's talking about like, let's get rid of Robert crap. Let's get rid of all preseason.

[Steve]

Hold on.

[McShay]

Play 18.

[Steve]

I know you're not here.

[McShay]

I don't.

[Steve]

I'm not making my point.

[McShay]

Okay.

[Steve]

Clearly enough. Let me make my point. Clearly enough. You are the Jets. You have all these picks. Right. You know the next year's class is going to be good, but it's going to be great for quarterbacks. And you might go get a quarterback. What I'm saying is you're taking a chance with this third round pick to see if you can kill of those other picks. Maybe have other teams trade up to get their quarterback and collect even more picks by figure not you have a quarterback. The only way that I would think you could do that is by playing that quarterback. Not four or five games. Not whatever. What you're doing is you're buying a little bit of a lottery ticket and seeing if you can make this happen with this player. And that way you save other. Other resources or assets. And it's a. I'm just saying it's an interesting.

[McShay]

Do you know I wouldn't do it either. The. The journeys. My least favorite word. Do you know how long those. And bumpy and torrential those roads were for Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold? 100. Where. And. And where did they have to go with one of those guys I just mentioned?

[Steve]

Yep. It's a risky thing. I just think it's an interesting theory. I. If you.

[McShay]

And it's not just the jets, it's anyone in that circumstance right now. Like there is such thing as ruining a guy. I know David Carr got ruined in Houston.

[Steve]

Correct.

[McShay]

I don't know, like if Zach Wilson was ever going to be good. But. But I don't know if he'll ever resurface as. As someone you're being a good human

[Steve]

being and playing the role of the agent. I'm playing the evil businessman, general manager, owner, organization. You know what I'm saying? Like, I drafted you. I drafted you to play. Go out there and play and let's see what we got. I get that. I wouldn't do it either, by the way. I just thought it was an interesting thought of. You could, like, you have, like you're gonna have at some point to figure out what you got. You know what I mean?

[McShay]

Yeah. But I'm talking about a strip down and build back up for tailing green. And I'm talking about a you. We like what we saw in one year, but we've got. We got a lot of ball to teach you, young man. With cold Colton, Cole Payton.

[Steve]

Yep.

[McShay]

I'm not talking about throwing him to the wolf and absolutely shattering their confidence before they have a chance or counterpoint.

[Steve]

He just shines. It is. It just. It just unlocks for him. And he's an unbelievable player.

[McShay]

Yeah. I mean, maybe, but history tells us.

[Steve]

No, history says.

[McShay]

But history tells me that organization doesn't get to determine whether. Whether after a couple training camp games and some practices that, that it's okay to throw a quarterback out there.

[Steve]

It's not. It's so nice. But on paper, it's, it's. It's a, it's a theory. It's just a theory I want to float.

[McShay]

This is a good one. I had fun with this one. This is. I mean, it was the most important position. I know. This isn't a great quarterback class. And we weren't manufacturing this. Like, this is real. This is. And there's going to be some dudes that go on day two where we're like, oh, gosh. And there's gonna be some dudes, depending on where they go, that were like, huh, okay.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[McShay]

Interesting.

[Steve]

And you.

[McShay]

All right.

[Steve]

You were this close to saying men should write. I'll take that. So, I mean, that's good for me.

[McShay]

Yeah. And for that mensch, we'll be back on Wednesday. We got. We got. I mean, Wednesday, Friday, we're loaded. Yeah, but we're here. We're here. We're not going anywhere for the next month. Five stars, brother.

[Steve]

Thanks, man.

[McShay]

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