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The McShay Show
A Texas–Texas A&M Preview and Indiana’s College Football Playoff Case. Plus: Danny Heifetz on the Next Giants Quarterback.
01:38:50
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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is presented by FanDuel. College Football Saturdays are packed with action and FanDuel is where you can score every game day. Let's face it, November is everything in college football. The playoff picture is starting to become more clear. This is the first year with the 12 team playoff and we have some critical matchups throughout this month. Why we Love fanduel There's so many markets like spreads over unders, national championship futures going to get a part of that and so much more. This app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG help.com being.
- [01:02]
Mitch
A marketer is no sweat. You just have to manage dozens of channels, launch hundreds of campaigns, score thousands of leads and okay, fine. It's a lot of sweat. Unless you have HubSpot's AI powered marketing tools to help you do all that and more.
- [01:14]
Todd McShay
Get started@HubSpot.com marketers texas a and M is a live dog. They're fully capable of knocking off the third ranked Longhorns. The winner of South Carolina Clemson is in the College Football Playoff as far as I'm concerned.
- [01:33]
Danny Heifetz
Don't even get me started on Clemson. McShay.
- [01:35]
Todd McShay
Mitch, stop interrupting.
- [01:37]
Danny Heifetz
I cannot wait.
- [01:39]
Todd McShay
Plus an early week edition of that's My Guy. And this time around, I'm going to offer you the most underrated prospect in the entire 2025 NFL Draft class. You don't want to miss it. Plus, there's a lot of suffering fan bases in the NFL. It's our job to ease some of that suffering. And it starts today with the help of our special guest, Danny Heifetz. Men, it's week 14 in college football, week 13 in the NFL. And how many days until the NFL draft?
- [02:07]
Danny Heifetz
149 days.
- [02:09]
Todd McShay
All right, here we go men. You good?
- [02:11]
Danny Heifetz
I'm good man.
- [02:13]
Todd McShay
Let's play that theme song. Texas A&M Texas. Thirteen years. These fan bases have had to wait. It's an inate rivalry. We've got a lot of them. We've got a lot of great rivalries this week. But talk about the importance mat of the the outcome of this game. Texas A and M What a. I mean what a terrible tape they put out there against Auburn Saturday night. Did not expect to see that. Vegas did, but I didn't. Yeah, you know, fanduel did. They warned us. It was. It was. The odds were close, but I didn't. I just didn't. I didn't see it playing out that way. Texas A and M has really has been battling all season long. Better coached team Elko has done a tremendous job. All that talent that they recruited, they're starting to play together as a team. And to go out and put that tape out there just. It was. It was hard to watch. Now give him credit, right? Give them credit in that they were down 21 nothing in that game and battled back. And also keep perspective. Not everything's lost here. And it's so easy to walk away from those 3 sec losses the other day, right? Ole Miss, Alabama, A and M. And it's like the recency bias on it. And the third loss in some like A and M season is there's still. It's still salvageable. And a win over number two or number three Texas, whatever the ranking is.
- [04:02]
Danny Heifetz
It'Ll help the resume hugely.
- [04:05]
Todd McShay
And with all those other teams losing and with Indiana losing ugly to Ohio State, there's still a lot in front of them and it wouldn't even matter if there wasn't. Even if it was just a spoiler role. Yeah, I promise you it wouldn't matter. And it's not even about. Not I don't want to go into deep down. It's not even about like the history and tradition of this rivalry. We're in the nil era of college football. Transfer portal people. It's just it unfortunately it's not about that. It's not about Pappy and Grand Pappy and where they played and who they've been rooting for for. It's just not right.
- [04:40]
Danny Heifetz
Right. No, it's not.
- [04:41]
Todd McShay
But. But study the rosters. It's still vast majority of young men from Texas that played high school ball in Texas, they know each other. They played each other, they played with each other. So there. That's what makes this a heated rivalry. And then you throw in the fact that Texas is trying to sustain its spot. Right. And Texas A and M is trying to get in the dance. And now we got something special. Kyle Field Saturday night. So you know what? I've got a few things on my mind. Take me somewhere here. Match you. You kick things off.
- [05:17]
Danny Heifetz
Well the one I'm as the, you know, in the trenches. The thing I'm most fascinated by is this Texas offensive line versus the Texas. Texas A and M defensive front. I think there's talent everywhere. I think that the Texas offensive tackles are the best offensive tackle tandem in the country. When I put them on tape and I was watching tape and prep for this conversation. I love that Texas offensive line and people are going to point to the Georgia game and they did not have their best night. I think this unit is ready for another big test which they will get in Texas A and M, make no mistake about it. But the right tackle, Cameron Williams is awesome and Kelvin Banks Jr. At left tackle is awesome. And the three interior guys are pretty damn good on their own. And you're going to go against the. Yeah, you're going to go against, you know, Nick Scoreton's coming in. You're going to play against Nick Scoreton, the Shamars. It's going to be a battle up front and as someone who enjoys that kind of a thing, that's what I'm most excited to watch.
- [06:15]
Todd McShay
Here's what's interesting to me and I love that match. Like that just got me fired up. Because this legitimately is, you could argue, the best offensive line in the country. It's legitimately one of the best defensive fronts in the country. We've talked about Ole Miss and they're probably going to have the most, most early draft picks. We've talked about. There's a, there's several different. We talked about the defensive tackles for Michigan. We've talked about four guys, at least three that absolutely will get drafted in the first two days of the draft from Ohio State. So there's a lot of good deed lines out there. A&M's is one of them. Okay. And I'm talking in the elite tier, probably five or six that you can argue, you know, but. But A and M is up there. And so to hear you and I've, I've always liked him, but I defer to you sometimes because you're, you're cynical, Steve, and you're like offensive lineman and there's always something wrong. And they're like, yeah, but a bunch of. Yeah, but to hear you raise is really encouraging. Okay. So that matchup is like, that's, that's the nuts and bolts of this thing. Of course I'm going to now go to the finesse. Cute stuff.
- [07:27]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [07:27]
Todd McShay
And ruin the whole vibe. Quinn Ewer's ankle is concerning, man.
- [07:32]
Danny Heifetz
He doesn't look right, does he?
- [07:34]
Todd McShay
Well, he got, he didn't get pulled in that game. Okay. Last week he didn't get pulled in that game. It was the final game, home game. Dkr. Right. And now if they have a home playoff game, but his final scheduled home game. Right. And so I don't know if that factored into it, but I think he was healthy enough to go back out in the second half and play after getting nicked up on a, on a run. I don't think it was even his carry when he got injured, but he got injured to his ankle was limited mobility wise. Very clear. I went back and studied the tape. Very clear. And Sark, Steve Sarkeesian, the head coach of Texas, kept him out there for whatever the reasons were, quite honestly. And I don't know this, but yeah, it's his final, it's his final scheduled home game. Right. Or a phenomenal career. What he's done position, he's put Texas to help put Texas in. But also your backup, your backup's a Manning. And we already went through that and Quinn already missed a couple games because of injury and we already heard all the noise with that. And so if now going into this huge renewed rivalry game against A and M and you throw, you throw Manning in there, Arch in there, and if they have fireworks in the second half, you know, and again, it's not because Sark's never going to put his team in jeopardy of anything, but I do think that they wanted to gut it out with Quinn in the second half. And very clearly by the play call, I don't have the numbers exactly in front of me. It doesn't matter. It was, it was. I don't know how many times he threw the ball in the second half, like seven times or something. So it was all running the football in the second half and they were going to grind it out. He gets the MRI done, precautionary mri. And the doctor came out, I guess, and the report was that it's good news. You know, he's fine to play, but if he's not 100% and it doesn't. And again, he's not a running quarterback, but he's mobile inside the pocket and he can tuck the ball and pick up first. If he's not 100%, you're going against that defensive line, I don't care how good your offensive line is. And you got Arch on this, on the sideline. He's got some game experience. He's got some, you know, he's taken some bullets already and he's got mobility. I just wonder going into this game, are we going to see Arch? But I'm not Skip Bayless. Like, I'm not Stephen H. Smith. I'm not here just like throwing shit against the wall. No, no, no. Just to throw it like. It's a legitimate concern and it's one that Sark's dealing with this week internally behind closed doors. Send out the report. Quinn's fine. MRR is great, good to go. But you. I'm certain that he's. That they're working through. Okay, so what happens if. And I'm not saying he's going to re. Injure and not be able to play. I'm saying what happens if he's not effective, as effective as he needs to be against this, this really good defensive front.
- [10:40]
Danny Heifetz
Tell me if you see the same thing. I. I don't want to be an apologist or make excuses for maybe some of the Quin ewers struggles or weaknesses in his game. I think he's been banged up for most of the year.
- [10:52]
Todd McShay
I agree.
- [10:53]
Danny Heifetz
And the reason I think that is because I don't see the same kind of velocity on his downfield pass as I, as I've seen in the past.
- [11:00]
Todd McShay
I agree.
- [11:00]
Danny Heifetz
Balls hang a little. It's getting there a little later. And why is that? I mean, that's especially a big deal this week because we just saw now Cam Coleman's a different dude out of Auburn and that, that dude's gonna be fun to watch, that wide receiver.
- [11:12]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [11:13]
Danny Heifetz
But we just saw this A M defense get.
- [11:16]
Todd McShay
Dude, these are those. Those Auburn receivers went off torched.
- [11:20]
Danny Heifetz
So do you have a guy that.
- [11:22]
Todd McShay
Can get Coleman and then the other guy had over 100. They had like 230 between them. The top two receivers for Auburn.
- [11:27]
Danny Heifetz
So do you have a guy that.
- [11:29]
Todd McShay
These A M corners are on notice in this game?
- [11:31]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, yeah, yeah. It wasn't good, man. And there was. It was a number of issues. It's like, well, what happened when you go back and you look at it? Well, one of you know, there was a blown coverage, there was guys getting beat one on one, and it was a little bit of everything.
- [11:42]
Todd McShay
Yep.
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Danny Heifetz
So do you have a guy that can get the ball downfield? And you usually do in yours. Yours, I. No problem. Usually I'm not seeing the same kind of arm talent from him that I've seen in the past. And that's a little bit of a concern because that's. If I'm watching that A and M tape, I'm like, we want to, we want to test these corners early and often and they have the talent receiver to do it. So, you know, that's best tape this.
- [12:08]
Todd McShay
Year was Michigan, right?
- [12:10]
Danny Heifetz
Yep.
- [12:11]
Todd McShay
Early on, I thought, yeah, but maybe the entire season. I'm saying.
- [12:16]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, no, I think it's the best. But it's also early on in the season, what I'm saying. I think he's been banged up, but.
- [12:20]
Todd McShay
That was before the. Before the injury, is my point.
- [12:22]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [12:23]
Todd McShay
And in that game, what made him so.
- [12:26]
Danny Heifetz
What.
- [12:27]
Todd McShay
What had us talking after that game, and I distinctly remember you and I talking about that tape that we studied. It was. There was a different kind of suddenness to him.
- [12:39]
Danny Heifetz
Okay.
- [12:39]
Todd McShay
An ability like rushers coming on late, whether he's sidestepping, climbing. There was a little bit more creativity to his game. It wasn't just as David Pollock said on our, I think, our very first podcast, it wasn't him at the driving range hitting beautiful towering shots.
- [12:55]
Danny Heifetz
I love this. That comparison or that whatever call it.
- [12:58]
Todd McShay
So do. And it stuck with me and it. Because when things are right, he's got that ball that takes off and it's got that second rise to it. Like, you know, like a good. Like an airplane with the. With the Jets. I haven't seen that version since.
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Danny Heifetz
No.
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Todd McShay
And now you throw an ankle into it.
- [13:19]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
And I just wonder, you know, like. Because I think with that offensive line, even if they play a great game, there's going to be some moments where he has to sidestep the rush. Rush is coming from the outside. He's got to climb the pocket, and he's got to do it with like the. I mean, it's an extreme example, but Aaron Rodgers with. And Aaron Rodgers without mobility, two different human beings, Right?
- [13:46]
Danny Heifetz
Correct.
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Todd McShay
And for 15 years, or whatever it was we saw him with, and we're talking about the best quarterback, a lot of people saying, ever to play the game, or top three, ever to play the game. Right. And now we see him without. Still got a great arm. He's still got. He can still make some amazing throws, but when you take that element away. So I don't know, it's just. It's something that's concerning. I do think I. If you. I've learned this in college football, and I've learned it the hard way and I've learned it over time. If you think you're getting that A and M team from the planes Saturday night against Texas on Saturday, you're dead wrong. Home game, Kyle Field rivalry, played against these guys, played with these guys. An absolute disdain for the opponent. It's going to be. I will be shocked if it's not best A&M's best or top three performances all year long. And we've been saying for a long time, I'm like, I. I can't wait. I just, I'm. We've. I've been saying since. Since Quinn came back, I want to see, like, they're good. We're going to get to a point when Sark's going to have to open this thing up and they're going to have to go full go. We've seen moments of it, flashes here and there, but not a full. Like, I love watching Sark, the game plan for the big game, like the Alabama game, seeing what his game plan is coming in, the variety mix in some special like misdirection, the motions pre snap. When Sark gets going and he gets in his bag, it is for people who love offensive football, it is fun to watch. So this is going to be it. You know, it's going to be it.
- [15:24]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [15:24]
Todd McShay
But it's. But it's Quinn up to the challenge. That's going to be fascinating to watch.
- [15:28]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. I mean, I. It's hard. It's a hard thing to speculate about or, or. Or see coming. Whether or not they're going to have to make a change there. But it'll be interesting. They are uniquely, I will say, one of the teams that's in playoff contention, that if you have that the backup is. They're in a good position. How quick do you make the move? Like, how. I mean, if they go down, if they go in there and they're in trouble early and the crowd's going crazy, how. How quick is the hook?
- [15:55]
Todd McShay
Well, how quick was it against Georgia, second quarter? Yep.
- [15:59]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, but they were planning.
- [16:01]
Todd McShay
I'm not like, I hope Quinn has the best game of his career.
- [16:04]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [16:04]
Todd McShay
I hope every player. Like, we're not. I'm just saying it's something to keep an eye on. I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole where everyone's like, well, Quinn, yours. He's not.
- [16:11]
Mitch
Right.
- [16:11]
Todd McShay
He's gonna. It's not what we're saying. I'm just saying, from a game planning standpoint, it's fascinating because if it was another team, it's like, we got to ride with Quinn no matter what. But it's not. That's your point exactly. You've got a very capable quarterback who brings a different element with the run game. He's not. He's not going to make the same decisions yet that Quinn's making. He's not like the efficient passer that Quinn is yet, and we would like to believe he will be. Certainly, I think, from a processing standpoint, he'll get to where Quinn is and maybe beyond. But you've got a very capable backup there. The other side of the ball is fascinating, too. You got Marcel Reed. You've got the mobility he had. He was forced to, you know, more of a passer the other night. Again, give him credit. They were down.
- [17:03]
Danny Heifetz
I think he's getting better. He's just.
- [17:04]
Todd McShay
This is.
- [17:06]
Danny Heifetz
Watching that game, I thought. I mean, Elko is a tremendous coach. I do wonder if there's a part of him when he goes home at night and he's got that drive home from the office, if he wonders to himself, I should have made that change earlier on in the season. And maybe Marcel reads a little more developed because, look, I mean, this kid, Noah Thomas, I was just gonna say.
- [17:26]
Todd McShay
Five for 124, two touchdowns. Yeah, it's like six.
- [17:31]
Danny Heifetz
Six. He looks like an NBA power forward. That. That connection is very intriguing to me. And I do wonder if Elko thinks to himself, man, maybe I should have made that change a little bit earlier. Maybe Marcel's a little more developed as a pastor because I think he's making strides. He made some throws in that game the other night where I was like, wow. I mean, the 11 touchdown of Thomas, he threw into a real tight window. Rhythm, timing, all of it was great. He's just not there yet because he's. He's young. He's got to develop a little bit. And it takes. Like we've said several times on this pod, if you're a quarterback, you need to play, man. You're only going to get better if you play. And I think Marcel Reed's going to get better. I don't know if he's there yet. We'll see. Maybe he has the game of his life as a thrower against Texas. I will say one thing that scared me, Todd, is I love this Texas defense, but I am now in the resume mode of the season, and I want to know. The numbers look great. I mean, they're the third best scoring defense in the country. Only Notre Dame and Ohio State are better. Numbers are great. Tape is great. Jade Baron, who we've talked about the corner.
- [18:36]
Todd McShay
The tape is great and the numbers are great. Then what else is there?
- [18:41]
Danny Heifetz
Colorado State offense, 100th in the. In the country in scoring. Michigan offense, 107 in the country. Louisiana, Monroe 117. Oklahoma 92. Kentucky 113. There's some guys in the 70s, the best team they played was Georgia And Georgia hung 30 on them. You know, there's a, you know, the best team outside of that is UTSA, who's 31 in the country. And they're not playing the same kind of schedule, man. So I look at that and I'm like, oh, I think cynical Steve would listen.
- [19:15]
Todd McShay
Resurface, I love. No, you're right.
- [19:16]
Danny Heifetz
Where I'm at, you're right. I look at some of those offenses they played against and I'm like, oh, man, these are not, these are not great offenses. There's no, you know, gangbusters or rocket of offense that they've gone against. That, that have really, you know, so this is going to be. And again, I don't know if Texas A and M is that team either. I don't think they're the same since they lost Le'Veon Moss to the, to the, to the knee injury. The running game's not the same when they lost the running back. So to me, this might not be the, the one that really tests them, but those numbers started to jump out to me a little bit.
- [19:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I mean it's all about stopping the run for Texas in this game. Yeah, it really is. Like they're going to need a huge game out of Alfred Collins, who's been huge all season long, especially in the last like four or five weeks. He's been sensational.
- [20:00]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [20:01]
Todd McShay
If they get, if they can jump them early. I think Texas, you know that defense, like the pass rushers, Anthony Hill Jr. Colin Simmons, the kind of edge guys, 14 and a half sacks between them.
- [20:13]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, I like them.
- [20:14]
Todd McShay
Baron, Sorrel, Sorrell, he's, he's another good player. 4 1/2 sacks. So I mean they've got, they've got dudes everywhere. They do. But I, but can they line up and can for four quarter. Like they're going to have a plan. A and M is going to have a plan. They're going to be creative. It's just, I think this game would scare me because I, I think you study the tape from last week against Auburn and you think you're getting one thing and you're definitely getting something different. And I'm excited to say I think this is going to be a battle. I think it's going to be a four quarter battle. Right.
- [20:52]
Danny Heifetz
We can throw all like, I'll tell you another thing. Texas great at turning the ball over. I think they have 17 interceptions this year. Barron's got four. The kid, Andrew Mcuba from Clemson, the Safety was really good. He's got another four. They're, they're kid number 25. I can't remember his name. The pick he had last week was insane. Highlight reel insane.
- [21:13]
Todd McShay
They turned the ball over.
- [21:15]
Danny Heifetz
No, no, no.
- [21:16]
Todd McShay
I didn't read through.
- [21:16]
Danny Heifetz
It's. I could find it if you want, But Reed's thrown one. It's Jalen McDonald. Reed's thrown one in each the last three games. I would not be surprised. I think Texas A and M has to win the turnover battle. I think they have to take care of the ball, but that's going to be tough against that Texas defense.
- [21:34]
Todd McShay
Let's look at the odds here. I, to me, five and a half coming off that game. I think they're, I don't know. It's interesting. I don't think that's, I don't think that that is giving a lot of respect to Texas.
- [21:53]
Danny Heifetz
Really?
- [21:54]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I love that. Yeah. This is big, bad Texas. They've been up there in the top, you know, five all year long. Like they had the 11 Georgia game. But other than that, you know, I think it, but I think it's the right line. I think Fanduel's all over it, per usual, and I'm sure there'll be thrilled to hear that. I, but I, I think it's, I think it's reasonable, but I, but I also think I, I, I always look at like this. What is Fanduel asking me to do? They're asking me here, they're begging me here to pound Texas. Oh, yeah, that's Texas. They're going to win by. They're going to come out, play the best game of their year. They're going to win by easy. A touchdown. Right.
- [22:38]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [22:40]
Todd McShay
That's why I think A and M is a live dog here. I truly do. I think this game is going to be the outside of Georgia. This is, this is by far the best test that they're going to get.
- [22:51]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [22:53]
Todd McShay
All right, another game. Go ahead.
- [22:55]
Danny Heifetz
Florida win for Texas. Looks good. I think we've been, you know, we've been kind of this Texas team, we've kind of, you know, questioned a lot about them. And you think about that Florida win when they won 49, 17. You know, they've had some tight ones and yours has been banged up a little bit. I think we've looked at the. Yours and maybe been too critical of Texas, the team because, Quinn, yours hasn't played up quite up to expectations as we thought. I like Texas in this game.
- [23:18]
Todd McShay
Okay, mark it down, folks. Mensch likes Texas's offensive line and likes Texas in this game.
- [23:24]
Danny Heifetz
Just keep in mind, I also like Tennessee against Georgia.
- [23:27]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I'm not calling you a sucker yet. We'll get to some other games maybe, but. All right, the other game that I'm fascinated by and listen, there's Michigan, Ohio State. There's some great rivalry games, but the one that I think is intriguing and maybe for just your average college football fan, maybe seem like it's off the radar. Like, why the hell are people so fired up about South Carolina, Clemson, what's going on with McShays? He lost his marbles. I get it. They're on the outside looking in right now. I get it. South Carolina, three loss team. I got it. Clemson got blown out by Georgia, lost to Louisville, not going to the ACC championship. Like, I get it. This game has meaning. Like, I truly believe. You look at all the teams that just got knocked off in the SEC and you look at where they were sitting last week, okay, Clemson was at 17, South Carolina was 18. Well, we had Indiana get blown out by Ohio State. We had Alabama getting blown out against a 5 and 5 Oklahoma team at the time. We had Ole Miss in an ugly loss against Florida, a very good Florida team right now. But a third loss also beyond that, outside of the top 12, BYU losing at 14, A&M losing 15, Colorado losing at 16. So you start bumping that pair of South Carolina programs up, okay, they're going to be probably when the rankings come out on Tuesday night, just outside looking in. All right, so with that as the backdrop, I think this game's amazing. Well, let's look at Fanduel. What do we got? I think It's Clemson -2 and a half at home. They. I've always been told by people in the know in this department, you get about. You get three points for home and field advantage, typically, right? So they're basically telling us, Vanduel is this is a pick em game, okay, 49 and a half points over, under. I look at this matchup and there are two things that really stand out to me for, for South Carolina and you throw out. Last week we had Wofford and Citadel as the opponents. Wofford for South Carolina. And by the way, not that it matters for anything, I would rather a Wofford Citadel matchup than having a bye week because you're going through the. You know how it is. Let's stay in the process. Let's like, okay, Thursday's the same deal. We got. We got the operations are the same. The operations. So mentally you haven't checked, especially as you're getting close to Thanksgiving. I always call it tryptophan season in college football. There's so many distractions. So. So they. Both programs had a very similar week after. Both programs really struggled the week before, excuse me, against a really good pit defense and a Missouri team that was so banged up in the middle of the year that we forgot how great they were early in the year. But they're starting to play better ball recently, so. But, but that Missouri tape for South Carolina's defense was the worst tape all year that I've seen. And I looked at it and at first I was like, you know what? They only gave up 12 points in the first three quarters. It wasn't that bad. I just looked at the box score before I even got into the tape. But then I watched and it was solid drive by Missouri moving the ball on the ground and through the air. But defense held up. Kick a field goal, another driver in the first half, same thing. Solid drive, balance, run, pass, get down, miss a field goal. Okay. And so in the first half it was only. They only had, it was six points. They had another field. So they had three scoring drives if you will, but only netted six points. They were stalled all three times. Missed a field goal, made two. Okay, not, it's not like there were three and outs or turnovers or you know what I mean? They were like effective drives that just, that stalled out and give credit South Carolina. But the point being now you get in the second half and you. And it's like, well, only 12 points in the first three quarters. Well, they scored like in the first place two of the, of the fourth quarter. But the, the score, the, the drives, the first four drives in the second half for Missouri. Touchdown, field goal, touchdown, touchdowns, A four, four drive strand there of touchdown, field goal, touchdown, touchdown. It was not what we've seen on tape from this defense we're talking about. What is it, Eamon? Worry your favorite player in the entire draft? Yeah. The safety who's phenomenal, TJ Sanders, inside defensive lineman Kyle Kennard, the other edge guys are all going to be drafted and pretty early. Okay. And we've got a bunch of other players, good players. So I was surprised by that and I'm fascinating to fascinated to see what this game is going to have to offer in terms of the defense for South Carolina. I'm assuming it's going to be a lot closer to what we've seen all season long, but it's going to be an interesting matchup. Watching Kate Klubnik and that and that offense. And do they have the weapons? That's to me the big question. Do they have the weapons? Like Antonio Williams for Clemson offensively has been there like they're emerging. I don't want to say star, but go to Guy.
- [28:57]
Danny Heifetz
That's a good matchup for them this week. I think him against Kilgore, the slot for South Carolina, that's a matchup they need to take advantage of. I like Williams a good route runner.
- [29:06]
Todd McShay
Because that's what Williams is. Slot possession. Guy quick catches the ball. 58 catches, leads the team. Had a great game against Pittsburgh. Everything else was kind of failing for a while. For a big stretch, he had 13 catches, 149 and two two touchdowns. So he. He's kind of the guy you trust. But the two freshmen are the guys that have the talent and can make the big plays. And Wesco of the two is the best. TJ is the other one. But Wesco to me, 18.7 yards per catch, but he's only been good for like two or three catches a game. I don't know what his average is, but it's like you look every game. So, yeah, they had two there, he had four there, he had three here. So can Wesco get more involved against that defense? And it all really is going to be decided, I think, and I'll get your opinions on this side of the ball, but it's all going to be decided, in my opinion by Clemson. Their ability to protect for club Nick so that he can distribute the football.
- [30:05]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, they're in trouble there. I mean, I'm just going to be honest about it. I mean, we'll see what happens this week with. With the injury report, but Clemson's banged up.
- [30:13]
Todd McShay
You hate Clemson. Let's. I'm sorry. The elephant is. Can we just get into it?
- [30:16]
Danny Heifetz
Can we just get into it?
- [30:17]
Todd McShay
Sorry. You. I can't believe. Why did you even let me go this long on this show to be professional?
- [30:22]
Danny Heifetz
I thought we had to be professional.
- [30:24]
Todd McShay
Stop. You and I both know I have just.
- [30:27]
Danny Heifetz
Here's my rant.
- [30:28]
Todd McShay
Go ahead.
- [30:29]
Danny Heifetz
Who have they beat? Who give me their best win of the year? Is it pit? Is it a pit team that's lost four games in a row? Is that their best win? I tell me like, they lost to Louisville, who has four losses this year? They played Georgia and got smoked. Smoked by 31 in the opener. I don't know who they've beat. We're all excited about them since they've lost to Louisville. We're excited about the fact that they beat a Virginia Tech team that is five and six this year. We're excited about that. That they beat the Citadel, who by the way, rush for. And this is not. This is true. 288 yards against that Clemson defense last week.
- [31:08]
Mitch
288 yards.
- [31:10]
Danny Heifetz
I know it was a blowout, but I watched them on tape and, and, and tell me who are, who are there. Christian Wilkins is not on that defensive line, man. They don't have dudes like that anymore. They lost three guys in the draft last year. They had three guys in the draft two years ago. From their defensive line. They are not reloading. They have not reloaded. It's a good defensive line, don't get me wrong. It's a lot of like these other programs that we've talked about that have been special in the past. They're not special anymore. They don't defend the run that well. I tell you, I go back and I watch that Stanford tape was the most mobile quarterback they had faced from a defensive side of the ball. And the. Ashton Daniels gave them all kinds of problems. And if he gave them problems, then lenora sellers at £240, who was a better runner in my opinion, watch out. And they're gonna. It's not the same attacks, but South Carolina is going to use some of the same principles that Stanford used and that Wolf Wolford used or the Citadel used. I'm sorry. And they're going to use them in their game plan. And Clemson better have a plan. And guess what? They're. They're banging up on defense.
- [32:10]
Todd McShay
But again, Sellers is coming off. Wofford aside, Sellers is coming off the best performance of his career.353 passing yards and five touchdowns. Like his confidence is growing now that he's gotten healthier.
- [32:22]
Danny Heifetz
I said it after that game. He looked like Superman at the end of that Missouri game. But let me finish. I'm not even done yet. Okay, These, these are the top teams in the acc. I'm looking at it right now. Smu. Have they played smu?
- [32:34]
Todd McShay
Nope.
- [32:35]
Danny Heifetz
Have they played Miami? No, they played Louisville and they lost.
- [32:41]
Todd McShay
Did they play Georgia Tech? That's why they're going the ACC title game. Yep. Did they play Georgia Tech? That's what I say.
- [32:47]
Danny Heifetz
Georgia Tech. They, they haven't played Duke. The highest ranked team is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Nope, not even Syracuse.
- [32:59]
Todd McShay
8.
- [32:59]
Danny Heifetz
Virginia. That was the top. That was the biggest win. No, they didn't even Play Virginia. They didn't play Virginia. Virginia Tech, that's their biggest win, a 3 and 4 in the conference. 5 and 6 team overall. No offense to Virginia Tech, who I like and gave Miami all they could handle. And I think it's actually probably a better team than their record reflects. But who, what are we talking about with this team? Because Pitt was ranked a month ago, that's a good win. I don't know. I don't know. And then I watch the tape and I'm not blown away by anything. So sorry. I, I know Clemson fans are going to be upset with me. I have no clue how this team. You want to talk about strength of schedule. Georgia is inflated their strength of schedule to something I don't even understand anymore because I look at the rest of the teams. Florida State, they beat by 16. Like what do we, what are we talking about with this team?
- [33:56]
Todd McShay
His X handle is at scouts and fans are going to hate me at scouts Inc. Mensch. That's M U E N ch.
- [34:08]
Danny Heifetz
Tell me, what am I missing? What am I missing?
- [34:11]
Todd McShay
That was beautiful, man.
- [34:13]
Danny Heifetz
Who's special on this team? Like, I, I don't understand what I'm, what I'm missing. They're good players. They're a good team. Are they the 12th team in the country?
- [34:22]
Todd McShay
No.
- [34:23]
Danny Heifetz
I don't know, man.
- [34:24]
Mitch
I don't know.
- [34:25]
Todd McShay
You're not wrong. You're not. You're not seeing. They're good. They're good club. Next. Good players. Gotten a lot better. They. They have weapons. They're. They don't. But they're not. We're not talking about Williams or Smith. That at Alabama and, and Ohio State.
- [34:43]
Danny Heifetz
This is not the Clemson that we grew up with. This is not the Clemson.
- [34:47]
Todd McShay
It's just not professional conversation. Not, not as children, but as. Right, right in our 20s and 30s. This is not that. Yeah, this is. No, I know. I know that.
- [34:56]
Danny Heifetz
Do you think Dexter Lawrence is on that defense? No. Sorry. Sorry. Don't be sorry.
- [35:05]
Todd McShay
This is awesome. This is awesome. I think Lenora Sellers is going to play. Here's the thing. But.
- [35:11]
Danny Heifetz
But what?
- [35:11]
Todd McShay
They are there. They are potentially and most likely by Tuesday night, a top 15 in the top 15 team in the country could be as high as like 14 for these purposes. Mensch. If South Carolina goes out and does to Clemson what you are indicating, South Carolina is going to go out and do to Clemson. They are on the road rivalry game, going to knock up a top 15 team in the country to put their final, you know, final stamp on their resume. And send that tape off to the committee to watch and to ponder and we all know, like human beings, recency bias. My point in all of this, really, and my point in talking about this game is truly, if I'm going to be honest, and I've been making this push for the last few weeks, I think South Carolina is one of the best 12 teams in college football. And they had their lot. The two losses, what was it, Alabama and LSU by combined five points and got some terrible calls. Okay. All right. So when you start stacking resumes and you start watching the tape and you see a quarterback and Lenor Sellers, remember, he was bouncing in and out of the lineup, okay? He's bouncing in and out of the lineup with injuries battling through and he's now healthy. And he goes off and rips off 45 yards on 15 carries with some sack numbers. Taking away from that against Missouri. But what he really does, that got everyone's attention and certainly as Clemson's defensive coaches, the tension. That dude's not supposed to throw for 353 and five touchdowns against a respectable Missouri defense. That's not what, that's not even what Shane Beamer thought he would sign up for, even though he'll tell you differently. But like, you know, like this, this team has good running backs. They've got their. They've got a mobile quarterback, they've got a great defense. They're going to play Beamer ball on special teams. We don't, we're. We're not going into this expecting 353 and five from our quarterback. And they got it. And not only did they get it, they got it when they needed it. You know what I mean? When the defense was failing for maybe the first time, like truly failing for the first time in all season, and didn't have answers to Missouri and the run game wasn't holding up its end of the bargain. He's stepped up and so this is going to be fascinating. I think it's a great opportunity for Beamer and this, this program that has been grinding blue collar behind the scenes, like doing everything you have to do to, to inject life into a program. My point in this was that it's not like I have any rooting interest for South Carolina over Clebson, okay? I just don't. But I pull for teams that I think are like that deserve it. And I think what they've gone through the gauntlet they went through the way they've played in big moments, the way they've played in big Games, what they've been able to do, the way they undressed. A and M. A and M was the darling. Remember that LSU game, the second half? Marshall Reed's in. This is a. This is a freight train rolling downhill and like, come on in. Come on into Columbus. Come on in. Yep.
- [38:27]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [38:28]
Todd McShay
Stay at a nice hotel, get ready. Because we're like stuck it to him. So I've been for weeks now pushing this, and now I see an opportunity because I know this. I don't know a lot. I know this South Carolina is a better football team than Indiana. But I also know on Tuesday night when the rankings reveal show comes out, Indiana is going to be in. South Carolina is going to be on the outside looking in. And that's not in my world. That's not just. Okay. A couple of things I wanted to get to. Speaking of odds, speaking of Indiana, actually a perfect transition. I didn't even mean it. I wish I could take credit for it. We said the other day after Ohio State dismantled Indiana and I told you how much I loved Indiana, like on tape, in terms of what they were doing. One of the best coach teams in the country. I'm not going to go into a long rant about it again. I really respected Indiana. I like the receiving court a lot better than people thought. 17 Tays Tayson is like, legit. He's got juice. You love West. I do, too. He played great in that game. Defensive tackle Kamara, the edge. I saw all the positives in Indiana that a human being can see while being objective. But the difference in the two programs is so vastly different that it got me to believe when that game was over, they had one series on offense where they looked inept or looked adept, I should say the rest, they looked inept. Okay. And that was Ohio State and what they were able to do to them. So when I make the claim that Indiana get out, like, they don't belong in this. There's other teams that belong in this top 12. I was curious. We remember, we threw it out there. Fanduel, our good friends at Fanduel Indiana, we wanted to know about these teams. And I'll let you rip off the Penn State ones because you're the one who wanted to get into a conversation about Penn State. Oh, I like that. You see that?
- [40:22]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [40:22]
Danny Heifetz
That's nice. That's nice.
- [40:24]
Todd McShay
The casino image. I like that. Okay. Against your beloved Clemson Tigers, Clemson would be minus 2.
- [40:31]
Danny Heifetz
Yep.
- [40:32]
Todd McShay
Clemson would be favored over Indiana. Who? Clemson's terrible. Just ask Mensch at Scouts, Inc. Mensch. Go Ahead.
- [40:41]
Danny Heifetz
I was wrong. They did beat. They did beat five and six Virginia. My. My bad points. Okay.
- [40:46]
Todd McShay
So you got down to seven teams in the South Carolina would be favored by two and a half A. M would be a pick. I don't. I.
- [40:54]
Danny Heifetz
That's wild, right?
- [40:55]
Todd McShay
Probably recency bias coming off of that loss. I think that it'll be a very different odd after. After they play Texas tough or maybe if they. They pull off the upset. But anyway Texas A and M pick and Ole. This one was the fascinating one. Ole Miss and I've talked to a couple people. I think you even text too. Ole Miss is the team that no one's ready to quit on. It's interesting. You know Alabama. Everyone's quit on enough. Like can't. They're just not Alabama. Jalen Milro got figured out. If they can't design, run and beat you that way, what do they have? I get it. Ole Miss still has that defensive front. Ole Miss still has that Lane Kiffin offense. They still have Trey Harris if he can come back and actually get healthy. Jackson Dart is not your guy in the fourth quarter when trailing but for the other three and a half quarters. And if you're in a lead or in a close game and battling through the first three quarters. He's a great college quarterback. But Ole Miss minus eight and a half points. They would be an eight and a half point favorite over Indiana. So that. That helps make my point. Not one of those teams that. And all four of them. Clemson, South Carolina, A&M and Ole Miss will be in the outside looking in. I can guarantee it come Tuesday night. Okay. When the rankings are revealed. But Indiana is going to be in. Yeah, I get it. Like that's not a big deal. It's driving me crazy.
- [42:22]
Danny Heifetz
It's tough because I. How. How are we going to do this? And I think this is what the. The selection committee wrestles with too. Are we just doing this based on talent and who the best teams are? Which I'm fine with.
- [42:35]
Todd McShay
Or does take out talent and just go who the best teams are? Yeah.
- [42:39]
Danny Heifetz
Okay.
- [42:40]
Todd McShay
I got. Sir, you finish your point.
- [42:41]
Danny Heifetz
It. Does the season matter? Does it matter? And this is not like Florida State where they lost their starting quarterback and they're a vastly different team without that starting quarterback.
- [42:51]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [42:51]
Danny Heifetz
Does the season matter? And when you look at that Indiana loss to Ohio State pros and cons. I'm a devil's advocate it because I've already said it and I'll say it again. After that game I felt like Indiana was out. They had the big stand, they had the big interception. They had the goal line stand. I think they, they did some things in that game that were interesting. And I think Ohio State, I've seen.
- [43:14]
Todd McShay
Another interesting thing in that game was they, they purposely drove the ball seven minutes, wanted to finish with a, with a 31:15 score. And Ryan Day told him to have.
- [43:24]
Danny Heifetz
No problem with that.
- [43:25]
Todd McShay
I get it.
- [43:27]
Danny Heifetz
But that is Ohio State and Georgia are the two teams that I think are the teams to beat in this. And that was one of the teams. They went there. They played, played at Ohio State. So again, I get it. It was a bad loss and I thought they were out. But when you watch all these other teams lose, I'm not surprised they're going to be in now. There's still time left. We still have these championship games. We still have rivalry week. We'll see how it all plays out. And maybe Indiana, Indiana does end up on the outside looking in. I would rather see South Carolina in. After I've thought about it for a couple days, I would rather see South Carolina in than Indiana because I do think they're a better team. So I just think it's a tough.
- [44:01]
Todd McShay
No, it is not tough. No one said clear cut.
- [44:04]
Danny Heifetz
It's not as clear cut to say that Indiana should be out because they play.
- [44:07]
Todd McShay
When I watch the tape and I really study these two teams, it is clear cut to me. Who's it is clear cut. Ole Miss is clearcut better than Indiana. South Carolina clear cut better than Indiana. And you ask Fanduel. They make a lot of money off. They make a lot of money. Okay, we're going to help you out a little bit where we're taking it back this month. But they're not dumb. They don't have a very good business for putting out dumb lines. And they back up what we're seeing on tape. All right, take us to Penn State because this isn't about in or out. But to me, like when I look at the rankings and this is before the rankings come out, Oregon, Ohio State, Texas and Georgia to me are tier one. Okay.
- [44:54]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [44:55]
Todd McShay
And I know Georgia doesn't have the resume of the other three, but like, Georgia is that top four is tier one to me.
- [45:01]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [45:02]
Todd McShay
After that there's a tier two and I'm okay with Penn State in the tier two, but I don't think they should be atop it. The problem is with all these teams losing, I'm losing the argument of how far to push them down, but I do think Tennessee should be ranked Higher than them. So I would have Penn State at six at best. Right. But. But I can also tell you this. It would be a shock based off of the committee and what they've shown in recent weeks if Penn State wasn't number four. So you asked for the Penn State spreads. Let's put those back up. Run us through them. And what do you see? What does it speak to for you, Mitch?
- [45:38]
Danny Heifetz
Well, one, I think that the. Can we pull them up one more time? Can we put them up? I will say the Clemson spread looks wrong. That's three. The Penn State's favored by three and a half.
- [45:48]
Todd McShay
Yep, yep.
- [45:50]
Danny Heifetz
That. I mean, I'm, I'm surprised. It's not wrong. They're definitely right and I'm definitely wrong. But I, I would be, I would thought Penn State would be favored by more in that, the South Carolina game.
- [45:59]
Todd McShay
But it speaks to like Penn State's not as good.
- [46:04]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, they're not. I mean these Penn State's not, you know, they're not in the top tier. It's like you said, they're just not. They're another team I look at and I'm like a tough win against South Carolina.
- [46:16]
Todd McShay
They're three point. Let's just run through a three and a half point favorites over Clemson. Three point favorite over South Carolina, which is a. Yeah. Texas A and M, they're six and a half point favorites over and Ole Miss, their underdogs by two and a half points. Two things I take away is there's. There's no love for Texas A and M right now. No, no love. They're a pick against Indiana and, and, and significant dogs there. They do have a chance. A touchdown. Dogs against Penn State. What the other takeaway for me is Ole Miss got a lot of love, right. A lot of Love by FanDuel, a lot of love by these really smart people. Eight and a half point favorites over Indiana. Two and a half point favorites over Penn State. Favorites over Penn State. Who's probably going to be the number four team when these rankings come out?
- [47:10]
Danny Heifetz
Right? That's the. We got all of them. We got all these odds. That was the one I looked at immediately and was like, wow, they, they have Ole Miss favored against Penn State. And I think it speaks to again, Penn State not being that elite team that people want it to be or maybe some, you know, some of the Penn State fans wanted to be, obviously. But also that, yeah, you're right. There's a lot of love for Ole Miss.
- [47:31]
Todd McShay
All right, folks, so this is. We are. This Is not a, you know, we're not here to sit around and pick. Pick games all day, but I am here to make. To make you some money. Okay. And every week we're just kind of. We're going to sneak it in. I'm going to tell you what's going on. There's two things that jump out to me, and I got to let you know, it's. It's at. And this is not sponsored necessarily. They're not telling us we have to do this. It's just. I'm telling you where to go. Give. Go sign up for the FanDuel app. The thing is wonderful. I'm on it every day. Even when I'm not making picks, I'm using it as a tool. And also at FD Sportsbook. Okay. It's where you can get this all figured out with us. You want to make some money this week, Mensch? Here's what jumped out to me when I looked through all of them on the FanDuel app today. Notre Dame's only favored by six and a half over a USC team that has been garbage. USC, we were doing our live show to one in the morning. USC was still trying to find a touchdown again against UCLA. They finally did and it won him the game.
- [48:33]
Danny Heifetz
But come on, that's crazy.
- [48:36]
Todd McShay
Notre Dame, we're talking about Notre Dame potentially at number six or seven. Some people think they could be ranked five. Yeah, five. You want to talk about who have they played?
- [48:45]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [48:46]
Todd McShay
Who have they beat? Also talk about who. Their loss, but we're talking about five. So FanDuel, like when I tell you that, like, they're smart, like, these numbers are put up for a reason. When we watched the tape, we said, yeah, South Carolina's favorite in those games. We talked about, yeah, Ole Miss is favored because they're better.
- [49:04]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [49:04]
Todd McShay
Notre Dame is going to be ranked 5 or 6 in the. In the rankings. Going against a USC team that has like, it's a dumpster fire compared to what I mean. Okay. But only six and a half points.
- [49:21]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [49:22]
Todd McShay
I would have guessed 13 easy.
- [49:24]
Danny Heifetz
Like 13 and a half.
- [49:26]
Todd McShay
So what are they doing? This is where we got to train people if we're going to take down fanduel just enough where they can still make the pay the checks. Okay. We got to train the brain, right?
- [49:37]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [49:38]
Todd McShay
They're begging you to take Notre Dame, right? What do you mean? I guarantee Ben Fox, who I used to work with F A W K E S. Look him up on on X. I used to work with him at ESPN you did too. Ben's a great guy. And now he does the sports gambling. He puts out all these different like interesting nuggets. And one of the things he does early, early money like picks and tickets. All the early tickets are on the. And it's always the, always the fishy lines. But the public betting on. On the Notre Dame type line. The public, the public betting on last week Colorado versus Kansas. The public last week pounding Alabama only 13 and a half points against Oklahoma. So let's start trading our brain. Let's get the opposite side here. Usc what you watch Saturday night we'll be doing this show. But USC only lost by three. That was a close one. Or USC huge update. Let's look at that resume again. For Notre Dame. A two loss Notre Dame against Northern Illinois. And, and, and USC now does that team deserve to get in overall Miss South Carolina, you know what I mean? So keep an eye that game. I think USC is a live dog there. And then the other thing that was interesting to me and I'm not saying you got to pound this or take this play. No love like on anywhere on, on social media shows you watch. And no love right now for Alabama. Like everyone's just kind of like, you know, they've always gotten the benefit of the doubt. Everyone's always had their back. It's Alabama. They'll be. No love for Alabama except at FanDuel. Auburn's coming off that awesome game. Right?
- [51:21]
Danny Heifetz
Right.
- [51:22]
Todd McShay
You think they're starting to roll? Maybe they figure things out. Hugh freeze. They finally getting it late in the season.
- [51:26]
Danny Heifetz
Cam Coleman's a dude.
- [51:27]
Todd McShay
Yeah, Cam Coleman's a dude. Alabama still minus 11 and a half in a rivalry game.
- [51:34]
Danny Heifetz
Wow.
- [51:34]
Todd McShay
Yeah. They're begging you to take Auburn in that. Alabama's dead. They're done. Take it. I to me that jumped out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think it would be quite that high. They still, they still love Alabama.
- [51:47]
Danny Heifetz
When people say to us why are you so high on the SEC in these playoff predictions? Right. FanDuel Guys, we. There's no debating this. And I'm not saying this just because they love us and we love them are way smarter than we are. Has the number nine team in the SEC favored against the, against Penn State from the Big Ten was what number three. And the Big Ten, those guys who know more than we know who are much better at handicapping games, predicting games. That's what they think. And that jumps out to me too. And so it's not only us that's seeing because we're coming in from a different viewpoint, right? They do what we do. They do what they do. We do what we do. And when we look at the tape every week, this is what we're seeing. We're seeing that the SEC teams are just superior to everyone else. And then it's the Big Ten and then there's a big drop off to the other two.
- [52:42]
Todd McShay
All right, no show on Thursday. Mensch, everyone. Enjoy your Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving.
- [52:47]
Danny Heifetz
Happy Thanksgiving.
- [52:48]
Todd McShay
Truly appreciative to everyone in our audience. All joking aside, like I. I told you, I'm never going to be here begging for likes and subscribes and all that. If you can give a. Give the word out to a friend, we appreciate it, but. But I just want to thank you for a month in. The amount of fan support and audience support that we have gotten is truly like something to be grateful for. This is something you and I have always wanted to do. Never knew if we've had this opportunity. So when outside of family, my children and health, like, one of the things that I will be saying thank you for and being grateful for this Thanksgiving is this opportunity and the amount of support that we've gotten. Okay? So enjoy your Thanksgiving. Enjoy it with family and friends. We will be back on Saturday night for the live show after the prime time game. So make sure you're back. We can all recover together on Saturday night, right? In the meantime, we can't let a week go by without. That's my guy, right? Yeah. So who's yours this weekend? This is a special edition for me. I mean, sometimes, like they're always my guys. I'm always planting flags. You're doing the same. But I got one that. Go ahead, you start.
- [54:06]
Danny Heifetz
I'm going with Jonas Sanker, the safety out of Virginia. I, I just top 10 in solo tackles last year. He's top 10 in solo tackles this year. He's got 8 1/2 tackles for loss this year. He had 11 PBUs last year. One thing I like about defensive backs and it's. It doesn't always correlate or, or I haven't done a study on it, but when defensive backs play quarterback in high school, I feel like it helps them. I feel like they have an understanding of how route combinations work and how offenses attack them and, and Sanger played quarterback in high school and you see it on tape with how instinctive he is, how he can close on the ball, how quickly he jumps routes. Versatile guy, good size, around 210lbs. He can match up with tight ends. He could Play single, high, double high, play in the box, fights off blocks. Like I said, he's a great tackler and he's a guy that's on a bad team right now. I mean, that Virginia team has not been very good this year. And it doesn't matter. He plays hard every single snap. He is awesome on special teams. I think you're looking at a maybe a day two safety. We'll see him in Mobile. He's already accepted his invite to the Senior Bowl. Could be a day two safety. I get Grant Delpit vibes. I get Taylor Rapp vibes. Those are two guys I really liked. He's like, he could be that kind of a player in the league.
- [55:27]
Todd McShay
All right, man. So that I like that. And certainly a player to look out for.
- [55:33]
Danny Heifetz
Here we go.
- [55:34]
Todd McShay
What I love to do, what I've learned over the years to do. If I'm. If I'm going to try to plant my flag on an offensive lineman, I better do it early. Here we are in late November. I better do it before we get into January and we're studying tape going up and down the list and you're. You're grinding all these tackles and guards and centers from all, all over the country. Oregon left tackle Josh Connerly Jr. Is my guy, all right? No one knows about him. Give me the list of offensive tackles that you have matched. Give me the list. Everyone's got the list of top offensive tackles in the, in the country. It's always the same guys. It's the LSU guys. Simmons from Ohio State before he got injured. It's, it's. It's from Minnesota last year, boy. Kelvin Banks Jr. Will Campbell. Emory Jones, right? Yeah. Erry from. From Minnesota, who you planted a flag on. Well, I'm going to trump you now. I want you to mark this day down. We're taping on 11 25, 2024. Before we even flip the page on the calendar to 2025. Josh Connerly is going to be one of the top three offensive tackles taken in this year's.
- [56:46]
Danny Heifetz
Wow.
- [56:47]
Todd McShay
Might be four or five, but I'm going to go with three because it's more of an impact. He's got the best feet of any offensive tackle in this class.
- [56:55]
Danny Heifetz
Okay.
- [56:56]
Todd McShay
He does. It blew my mind. It blew my mind. I love this guy. I love him. Dwayne brown, remember him? Six, four, two, three. 21 of the most. I remember at the time thinking he was one of the most athletic offensive tackles I've ever evaluated. Coming out of Virginia Tech with the Houston Texans, you Know, long career. But I'm saying do you remember like when we were evaluating him. Obviously I know who you, you know who but do you remember when we watched him like I hope he continues to get a little stronger, a little bit more, you know this hands a little more popular but, but my goodness, can this guy move. Silky smooth. Change of direction. It's the same thing with Connerly and last year it was his first year as a full time starter. He's still getting bigger and stronger. Still needs a little more sand in the trunk, you know. But I'm seeing more development with his hands, his placement. You just watch him mirror and like pass guys off. Oh, it's everything. You look for huge strides this year. Love where he is. Finishes out the regular season, Oregon does against Washington before the big rematch against Ohio State. Good tape against Ohio State earlier in the year. Tape wasn't the best against Michigan, but awesome tape against Illinois. I think this guy's got a chance to be. I haven't. Have you heard his name?
- [58:16]
Danny Heifetz
Not a lot. I have a little bit. Not a lot. And I watched the Michigan tape and I'll be upfront about it. I saw a very high ceiling and I had some concerns about some. Yeah. And I thought to myself maybe another year, maybe he goes back for another year and turns into. Because I listen the ability wise. I think, I mean he's going to be. He's a first round talent. I think we're talking about what we're talking about with like Nuss Meyer at quarterback for LSU and it's a difference between going 15 or 16 or going in the top 10.
- [58:45]
Todd McShay
I haven't heard, I have not heard a single thing about Connerly Jr. As a first round draft pick. I've not read it on social media. I've not read an article. I have not heard a single person. And I get remember and we're talking about an offensive tackle. But just mark it down today. This guy could be the fastest rising player as we get close to the the NFL draft. Assuming he comes out after this year, assuming he works out the way I think. I don't even know. I haven't heard like is he on Feldman's freak list? Is any. Like I don't know what he is in terms of times and 40s and all that other shit. What I do know is on tape he's a phenomenal athlete and I'm excited to see what, what he could be at the next level. And I, I think NFL scouts are quietly hoping that we keep our mouth shut about him so that he can, he can fall a little bit in the draft. All right, heifers coming next. Let's go.
- [59:35]
Mitch
This episode is brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. There's plenty to be thankful for, your friends, family and the fact that you can now get NFL Sunday ticket for only $89. So thank yourself this holiday season and watch every game every Sunday when you bundle NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. Sign up now at YouTube.com SundayTicket offer ends December 2nd. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday Ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games. Terms and embargoes apply.
- [60:03]
Todd McShay
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- [63:19]
Mitch
Thank you for having me, man. I'm passionate. I don't know if I'm so smart so TBD on that, but I could definitely bring the passion and it's not so good when I think the Richmond Spiders are better than the Giants right now in football. So I mean that no offense to Richmond, love Richmond, but that's never where you want your team to be.
- [63:32]
Todd McShay
No, no it's not. And hats off, we've, we've covered it a couple times on the show. Richmond, nine straight wins back to back CAA titles heading into the playoffs. So we're, we're proud Spider alums here.
- [63:45]
Mitch
Roll spy, baby.
- [63:47]
Todd McShay
But I don't think anyone's tuning into to get our take on this on the Spiders. Right. I think it's time, right? It's, we're like deep in the NFL season, even deeper into the college football season. That's what we're spending the most time on. But it reaches a point usually around this time of year where there are so many suffering NFL fan bases and the only thing they can kind of hold hope on is hang their hat on, is okay, how are we going to turn this around? And I see it this way, like Jacksonville, if the draft were to happen tomorrow, Jacksonville would be on the clock. With their two and nine record. Right. They've already, you know, it feels like that season is lost. I feel like I'm waiting every day to hear when you know there's going to be a change. The head coaching spot. There's already been a lot of talk about potentially a new general manager there. The New York Giants. I feel like it's the same thing and we'll get into that with you, Danny, but the Giants, when? I have a lot of respect for Brian Dabel, but it doesn't look like he's going to be back next year. Joe Shane, the general manager, Las Vegas. A lot of talk around. Tom Brady's in. Where are we going to go? Is this where Shador wants to go? Shador Sanders. And beyond that, the Patriots have their quarterback but not a lot else in the Panthers sitting at number five. We know the mess and dumpster fire that's been even though they've been playing a little bit better. So with that as the backdrop, I want to kind of throw it to you and you can kick things off here when you're starting to look at the top, whether you want to start with the Giants or the first overall pick. And just if you're tuning in and watching on on YouTube TV or watching along on on video, you'll see the draft order as of today. 11 26, 2024, Jacksonville 1, Giants 2, Raiders 3, Patriots 4 and Panthers 5. So where do you want to take this thing, Danny?
- [65:46]
Mitch
I think we got to start with just who's going to be the first quarterback off the board. Because I mean, the Jaguars, I know Trevor Lawrence is not playing as well as we had hoped, but I mean the Jaguars are not taking a quarterback or replacing him. So I think that either they would take a position player at that first spot or they would trade down. I look at that list you just put up and it's like the Patriots are bad, but they have Drake. May looks fantastic. The Panthers could take a quarterback, but they could stick with Bryce Young. He's had the best month of football he's had since Bama the last month, really. But I look at the Giants and the Raiders is needing a quarterback and I would like to ask you, Todd Mensch, should a team any. We'll take the Giants out of it for a moment because, man, the Giants are so pathetic and I could talk about them forever, but any team I think is a similar boat. I think that there's two parts to the Shadow Sanders evaluation and I actually would. I also wonder if this is the most Complicated, holistic evaluation of should you take this player I've ever seen? Because I think I agree with a lot of what you guys said about Shadow Sanders as a prospect. I would like to for a moment take it for granted that Shadow Sanders is the number one quarterback in this class and that he is good. I like what you guys have said about his toughness, but has there ever been a prospect more likely to get you fired than drafting Shadir Sanders and bringing the Deion Sanders show into everything going on? And something I'm genuinely wondering, if you're the Giants, do you want Shitter Sanders in the Deion Sanders show and the circus coming to town? Is this good? Should you be at the forefront of whatever football revolution Deion's bringing or are you going to look back almost jets, like with Aaron Rodgers and being like, why did we invite all that into this? Because I think that is the part of this. I don't know how I feel yet about what to do with Shedeur. I don't know if I've ever seen evaluation that has that element to it.
- [67:25]
Todd McShay
It is fascinating. Right. Like, let's look at this in kind of two different parts. First of all, there was a lot of buzz and I don't know where we will ultimately stand on it, but there was a lot of buzz just a couple weeks ago about the package deal that is Shador and Coach Prime. Right. Since then, it wasn't as much about Coach prime coming out in the press conference saying, I'm happy here and all that. It's been more two elements for me that is starting to lead me to believe that with Shador, you're not getting dad, you're not getting Pops, you're not getting Coach Prime. First of all, they flip the one of the top quarterback recruits in the country. And I don't cover recruiting, so I'm going to blanken his name. We can look it up right now. But they brought in one of the best quarterback recruits in the country to Colorado. That guy's not flipping and going to Colorado unless he's been absolutely promised that Coach prime is going to still be there.
- [68:28]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [68:29]
Todd McShay
Now, again, it wouldn't be the first time we've seen lying in recruiting before.
- [68:32]
Mitch
I was going to say dumb question. Does that mean anything?
- [68:35]
Todd McShay
It does in this vein, I'm also starting to hear people that are close to Coach prime come out and say, he's not going, he's staying in Colorado. So you combine those two things and. And like Joe Clad obviously is very close to the situation, but He's a Colorado guy so he's gonna, he's gonna back that, that, that Prime's gonna be there to try to get recruiting and maintain some of those players. But there's also other people that have no horse in this race coming out and starting to say, and I've said all we'll get, we'll get Coach prime on the show. But until then I just kind of reading the tea leaves. I don't think this is going to wind up being a package deal like I did maybe just a couple weeks ago. So let's with that as a jumping off point. The other critical part to this is the evaluation, right. And the evaluation is he's had the best tape of any quarterback in this class. Right now it appears that he's most likely to be QB1 in this class. We've seen Carson Beck, a lot of road bumps in the way but he's, he's gotten better as the season's progressed. I think he could still be a first round quarterback probably quarterback pick. Cam Ward is, has had a sensational season. Fast riser. People I talked to in the league maybe not as high on Cam Ward as kind of the public has been. It's really the, the two horse race that is Shador and Cam Ward. I think it's really Shador number one. But just because he's QB1 doesn't mean he's going to save a franchise. And you compare him to last year's draft and we've already said multiple times and men messed with me in like the first week. I said, I said, listen, I haven't studied enough of Shador this year so far. You know the conversation with Drake May coming off the 2023 tape, like we can start the conversation there. But truly the conversation, if you were inserting Shador off of this year into last year's draft, it would start at QB4. When you get into like Penix, Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, right. So is the fourth best quarterback in last year's class? And if you're watching Bo Nicks right now, you might be like maybe. But is the fourth best quarterback in last year's class worth, as you're alluding to Danny, bringing in what you know is going to be a media storm and probably is going to cost you whether it's moving up to the number one pick to go secure him or after Jacksonville wisely stays at number one and takes your door and because knowing that there's a team out there that Coach prime has said, hey Shador, this is where we're going. And so let's take. So if you're Jacksonville, let's take advantage of that. So it's going to be a mess on draft weekend. It's going to be a mess leading up to it. And then when he comes, he's not coming with dad, but he's coming with a lot of that. All the. Everything that's going on in Boulder is now going to be inserted. Inserted into your NFL organization. Is it worth it for a quarterback that. I think he's the best pure passer in this class. I think he holds onto the ball too long, though. I, you know, there. I just don't know at this point if he is worth that. Because if his name wasn't Shador Sanders, would we be talking about him in the same light or would it be a little bit more like the Kenny Pickett year? And some. Some scouts I've talked to think it's closer to that. But most people I talk to in the league say it's, you know, it's somewhere in the middle.
- [71:56]
Danny Heifetz
If I'm the Giants, I'm hoping that Shadow gets taken ahead of us and it gives me an excuse to trade back and get more picks and address more holes in the roster because I don't think there was Shador Sanders away from being a winning program. So to me, I'd want to do that now. It's easy for me to sit here in my home office and say, don't take the quarterback. Just build. Build your roster, man. If you're a new GM and that fan base is looking for you to make a change at quarterback. You've just watched Daniel Jones for, for four or five years, whatever it is. And six, you know.
- [72:26]
Todd McShay
Six.
- [72:27]
Danny Heifetz
Six years. Yeah, six. And, you know, you need a guy quarterback. I mean, you got to have some guts as a GM to be in there and say, we're not taking the quarterback this year. We're going to address other positions. So it's in a bubble. I'm saying build the roster, but it's a lot harder in the real world, I think.
- [72:43]
Mitch
Wait, so you match. You would not take Cam Ward with the Giant if the Giants at the second pick in the draft and let's say the Raiders flip flop, you know, let's say the Raiders either hired Deion or they don't. The Raiders go up. They take Shadow, they bring the circus to Vegas. Giants sitting there, Cam Wards on the clock. You're like, no, thank you.
- [72:58]
Danny Heifetz
Listen, I like both of them. I think Ward's. That's a Little early for Ward. I think Sanders is in the conversation that early. But, no, I look. You look at what's going on in the league in two. Two aspects of it. And one is that these rookie quarterbacks have come in and struggled when they haven't had a good supporting cast and there's no stability, and then they wash out. So now you're starting all over again in three or four years. Right. And the other is. You know, I would ask you this as a Giants fan, Danny. Would you rather have Sam Darnold or Shador Sanders? And you're looking at.
- [73:26]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [73:26]
Danny Heifetz
You're looking at some of these quarterbacks. And Todd and I have had this discussion several times.
- [73:29]
Todd McShay
That's a great point. Mm.
- [73:31]
Danny Heifetz
The Geno Smiths of the world, The. The Sam Darnolds, maybe not the guys that are like, oh, we got our Josh Allen. We're super excited about this. They're not those guys, but you can win some football games with them and you could be competitive. And then when you're ready to make the move on a rookie quarterback, you do it on your own terms. So to me, it's. It's. It's in this class now, again, if Jaden Daniels was there, we're not having this conversation. Right. Caleb Williams is there. We're not.
- [73:54]
Todd McShay
We've established that. But it's just. It's not that class.
- [73:57]
Danny Heifetz
Right. So that's. That's where I'm at.
- [73:59]
Mitch
I. I mean, I totally. I'm picking up where you're putting down because I. I'm a huge believer that, like, you know, I think that half of this of development, you know, is nature. But I really am a huge proponent of nurture in the quarterback process. I love what Kevin O'Connell, the Vikings coach, said earlier this season, that quarterbacks fail or organizations fail, young quarterbacks, quarterbacks.
- [74:18]
Danny Heifetz
Field organization, all the time.
- [74:19]
Mitch
All the time. And frankly, if you look at the last, really the post 2010 CBA that changed everything. You look at every good quarterback pick since then. They all went to good teams. Patrick Mahomes, the Chiefs had won multiple division titles before he played. You know, Russell Wilson went to the best defense ever. You know, Kirk Cousins had four head coaches on that offensive staff. And you just go around desean Watson with the Texans, you know, with the Texans, he was a good quarterback. And I mean, they had won four division or multiple division titles before he was there. Lamar Jackson, they had won nine games, games before Lamar Jackson was there. All these quarterbacks went to existing success. And we forget sometimes that this is a team game. And so you look, I mean, like, who are the quarterbacks that really did turn around bad teams? Cam Newton. So the best college football player maybe ever, you know, Andrew Luck, who was the best prospect since John Elway. And even that Colts team had won with made the playoffs, I believe, with Peyton Manning two years earlier. Like, there's a reason that, like, you need a generational guy to turn around a bad team. Everyone else either was developed like Mahomes, who sat on the bench for a year. Everyone with the Anthony Richardson thing pretending like, oh, like, oh, the bench, like that's the worst thing for a quarterback. So I agree with you. My issue is I'm torn and I am so down with that. And I guess my question for you, Todd, is I love Travis Hunter and I would love to have him on the, on the Giants. My question is, should I believe that so much that, oh, well, we have to build a great team before we get the quarterback. Meanwhile, if the Giants pass on Shadow Sanders, Cam Ward, and then those guys are good, I'm going to walk into the sea. So, like, should they really pass on a quarterback?
- [75:49]
Todd McShay
Well, you're in the sea already, so you're already there. What's water? Yeah, what's the difference? That's the other hard part of this, right, Danny? Because this year's class, and like, this is not great for business to come out and say this, but I'm always going to be transparent. This year's class is loaded with talented players. It really is like, like late first, second, third, fourth round. There's a lot of depth in this class. But just look at the top of this class, like Travis Hunter's there and is a deserving top five player. Okay, in, in, in most, if not all NFL drafts, Will Johnson, cornerback from Michigan. Obviously he's been dinged up. How much is he kind of just thrown in the towel on the season at Michigan, but at cornerback, he's a top five player in most drafts. Maybe he gets bumped down because of other quarterbacks, but he's that kind of talent outside. Like, other than that, there's a lot of like really good players you'd love to get at 10, 12 in a given draft. Like, Abdul Carter's a damn good football player out of Penn State, but are you taking them one or two? Mikel Williams, loaded with talent at Georgia, but are you taking them one or two? Nick Score, scorting the edge from Texas A and M, you know, like, so that's the other problem. It's not like you're looking at this and you're saying, okay, where the Giants were on the clock at 2, Travis Hunter went one to Jacksonville. By passing on a quarterback, are we getting something that we are certain is going to be an absolute star in this league? And you could say, okay, yeah, Will Johnson. But can you imagine giants fans 20 minutes into the draft? It's like 8:30, Thursday night NFL draft and we're rebuilt, we got a new GM, new head coach. We're going to turn this thing around and you come away with a good cornerback who kind of shut it down. Like that's the, that's going to be part of this equation too.
- [77:55]
Mitch
Ah, no. All right, all right, I will. No, Will Johnson's good, but I'm like, if they, if they take Will Johnson over Travis Hunter, I would lose my mind. I need, I love Travis Hunter as a football player.
- [78:06]
Todd McShay
What if Travis Hunter goes number one overall?
- [78:09]
Mitch
See, I guess where I'm at is I think you need to take the shot on a quarterback because I hear what you're saying about this class, but, and I know it's not a great class, but I also think of what Bill Walsh said about bad classes, which is, hell, fellas, we only need seven guys. You know what I mean? And so I think about that one a lot. And I also think about the Bill Parcells quotas. Like, you know what, we can only take what they send us. And so I think about that where I'm like, you know what? Go get your dudes. And so the other thing I think about though is that frankly the risk reward of taking the wrong quarterback versus the great, you know, the right quarterback. And I say this, someone licking the wounds of the Daniel Jones, you know, issue that just happened and the godforsaken issue that just went on with the Giants. The upside of getting the right guy is so much higher. And if you're telling me it's a one out of three dice roll, I'll roll the dice all day. Because I mean, again, I think that this is, you guys have talked about this, a really good mix of the last three classes. It's not as good as last year's with Kayla Williams and Jayn Daniels, Drake May and Bo Nix and Michael Penix. I don't think it's as bad as the Kenny Pickett, Malik Willis, Desmond Ritter year. And it's probably like a shade or two below Bryce Young, C.J. stroud, Anthony Richardson, where you have a Stroud.
- [79:14]
Todd McShay
I think it's most similar to that group. But I don't see where the Stroud is, but I think it's most similar to that group.
- [79:20]
Mitch
But even with the Stroud one, we didn't say where Stroud was. I mean, if we're on the timeline of that college football season, Stroud hadn't even put himself on tape. Right. Like the Stroud that we saw in the NFL really was the Stroud from that Georgia game. Right. In January or New Year's Eve, whenever that game was, that ended up being the seat of Stroud that showed up in the NFL. So I think this time last year or two years ago, Stroud played Michigan and frankly had really poor clock management. At the end of that game, I was wondering if CJ Stroud can manage an info game. That's why I'm not as good of a draft analyst. You know what I mean? I guess that's why I've never been on the show with Mel Kuiper, but I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm like, if you're telling me I have a 1 in 3, a 1 in 4 chance of getting CJ Stroud if Travis Hunter's gone, I need to do that because honestly, I am losing my love of NFL fandom with this team that has been uncompetitive. We now I'm just ranting. But do you know how depressed my family is that the Giants are playing the Cowboys and Thanksgiving? Do you know how distraught we're going to be to lose to Cooper Rush and this off worst cowboy season in 20 years? The sky is literally falling. The roof is collapsing. The sun is blinding the players. The Giants are going to lose to this team on Thanksgiving. I'm tired of it, Todd. I'm sorry. I can't handle this team anymore. I would like the 1 in 3 dice roll on Cam Ward and if he sucks, Josh Rosen and get. Get me arch Manning in 2026.
- [80:34]
Todd McShay
It certainly was not our goal mentioned when we started the show to become. To become the home for disgruntled MetLife maniacs. But. But with Stu Gotz last week on the jets and you on the Giants today, it's starting to feel a little bit like that. I get it. Yeah. I mean, I get it. But I mean, let's just go through this thing, right? Your Jackson bullet won Jacksonville at one, right? And you're looking at this board that says Travis Hunter, potentially number one prospect. We haven't had a receiver taken number one overall since 1996 with Keyshawn Johnson. And yes, you could say he's a receiver and corner, but I don't know. We had a whole long podcast about he's got to be one or the other and maybe you can get a little support from the other. But I think wide receiver is the position. You're drafting him. Then you. You got cornerback Will Johnson, you got edge Abdul Carter. Obviously Shador's in the mix somewhere. And you got a couple more edges. You go down the line, like offensive tackle Kelvin Banks, defensive tackle Mason Graham. Like, we're. We're just not talking about guys that are. That. You feel great about using a top five picket. But if Jacksonville sitting at one and you see cornerback, wide receiver, offensive tackle, three of their biggest needs, I think Travis Hunter's the pick there. Unless there's a team that has been stamped by Coach prime to be Shador's squad that, you know, that is trying to move up to secure that one spot. But again, I might take Shador at that spot and because. Because the talent level isn't so elite and doesn't blow you away at the top. Take Shadoor at that spot. Make a team trade for you, you know, after the pick. And now they're desperate if the Giants. If, let's say the Giants are not. We haven't even talked about that. Coach prime might not be going to the NFL, Danny, but Coach prime is absolutely going to affect where his son Shadow Sanders goes to play. Are you convinced that you're getting the green light with the Giants organization? I'm not.
- [82:41]
Mitch
Well, I mean, look, history doesn't always repeat, but it does rhyme. I mean, this really is like 21 years after the Giants and Archer. Archie Manning handed the Giants to Eli Manning and he was like, you're not going to the Chargers, you're going to the Giants. And like.
- [82:54]
Todd McShay
Yeah, but Ernie, Ernie, of course he was there kind of pulling some strings too. Yeah.
- [82:59]
Mitch
Well, you guys see the shitter. What? You guys are smarter than me. You talk to more people than me. I mean, why is Shitter Sanders thank. Tweeting. Thank you, God. At like 6 o'clock every Sunday, presumably six hours after he leaves church on days that happen to be when the Giants and Raiders lose. What's with that?
- [83:14]
Todd McShay
I had read. I had read that it was after all Raiders losses, but.
- [83:19]
Mitch
Well, they both lose a lot, so it's a lot.
- [83:21]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, but.
- [83:22]
Todd McShay
But we like to keep a level of sanity here. It's probably because he just left church and he's deeply religious. Yeah. So I don't know that we're gonna. I don't think we're gonna bring God into This conversation when it comes to the. The Giants and the Raiders.
- [83:38]
Mitch
Yeah, no, they've been forsaken. Clearly the Giants considering.
- [83:42]
Todd McShay
Considering the Sanders family Faith. Anyway, hold on though.
- [83:47]
Danny Heifetz
You really don't think that the Sanders would consider the Giants the history of that, that organization. Remember, you're saying you're probably going to clean house, right? You're probably gonna have a new coach, you're gonna have a new coordinator and you look at the history of the Giants organization, you look at that market. I mean, I have a hard time not thinking that's an attractive place for Shadow Sanders to be.
- [84:08]
Todd McShay
Let me say this, let me just get ahead of it. I think it's a mistake to fire Brian Dable. Okay. I think he's one of the guys who actually can develop quarterbacks. I think he got the most you can possibly squeeze out of Daniel Jones. I like usually I go viral where when I make a Sam Darnold and how much I love Sam Darnold back in the day and people like to throw all that stuff. But like this week I'm seeing more like clips of people like my takes on Daniel Jones and it never strayed. He was a backup prospect. He was a backup prospect. He was coached as well as your possib possibly going to be coached at the college level. Right. Cutcliffe can coach quarterbacks. He got to the NFL. He was taken too high and he proved early on that he was. He was exactly what I thought he was. Brian Dabel got the best out of him, but he can't stay healthy. He can't help the turnover bug. And so I know this isn't going to be the answer. I'm almost certain that Day Ball is going to be gone. But I'm sitting there, it's like, all right, if we're going to draft Shador, maybe we should keep the guy who actually can develop a quarterback. And I know Giants fans don't want to hear that, but I feel like someone had to say it.
- [85:23]
Mitch
The thing that bugs me about Dable is that I like Dable a lot. I think that my concern is the Giants get blown out a lot. Like more than the Joe Judge era. That's the one concern I have is there's a lot of non competitive football that eats away at me. But I actually totally agree with you process wise, Todd. I think my concern with the Giants overall is that I think John Mayer wants to live up to the legacy of his father in that like the patience with ownership. But in reality there's so much they get caught no Man's land with decision making. Like you look at Saquon and the Saquon thing. Look, there's two things you either sign him to, frankly. I mean, again, Jerry Judy's making $5 million more a year than Saquon. There's a reason the sharp teams scooped in on the running back market this year. Saquon's making less per year than Adrian Peterson did 15 years ago. So either side him and if you're not, you trade him at the deadline. Last year, Christian McCaffrey was traded the Niners like a second, a third, a fifth, a sixth. The Giants didn't get any of that. They're not even going to get a compensatory pick for Saquon.
- [86:14]
Todd McShay
No, I know. It was horrible, horribly managed.
- [86:16]
Mitch
So they're middling it, they're doing no man's land. And I think that there's a similar thing here with D where it's like there, there's a world where they're going to fire D, draft a quarterback. You should either keep D and draft a quarterback or don't like, or, or if you fire D, hire like Bill Belichick and then take like Travis Hunter and try to piece this together. Give him Sam Darnold, give him whoever Belichick wants. But there's a world where if you kind of take Belichick and take a quarterback, I don't know. But I, I, I don't know exactly what's going on, but I agree. I, I don't have a lot of faith that the Giants are making like comprehensive long term decision making, which in theory is what good ownership should be about. But I, what if Belichick signals his interest? Do you think that Dable should stay? I think that's the, that's what I'm wrestling with.
- [86:59]
Todd McShay
Well, no, no, no, but I, I don't. Again, I don't think that Dable is going to, going to stay. I don't think. I think that they're going to move on. I think Bill, Bill Belichick's a name. I hear Ben Johnson's the, the coaching hire that everyone wants to make.
- [87:14]
Danny Heifetz
Everyone.
- [87:15]
Todd McShay
I've heard Bobby Slowik, but I think from what I've heard, and I'm not Adam Schefter, I'm not, you know, I'm not one of those, those human beings that spend their entire life on their phone and are mostly miserable and will admit it. But I think variable is probably the most realistic, it would seem to me.
- [87:39]
Mitch
Vrabel's an amazing coach. I also think that if Dable and Robert Sala two years from now, I can see being the best offenses and defensive coordinator in the NFL, getting head coaching jobs again and the Giants jets let both go, that wouldn't be.
- [87:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, I think. I think that's the most likely route.
- [87:53]
Mitch
So I derailed you from this top five we were doing and I want to ask you a question.
- [87:57]
Todd McShay
Yeah, go ahead.
- [87:58]
Mitch
Speaking of the Giants, because now I'm acting like the Giants of the epicenter of the football world. But Saquon Barkley obviously went off on Sunday Night Football wall and while, you.
- [88:04]
Todd McShay
Know, was it 2:55? Was it.
- [88:06]
Mitch
Yeah. Like the most total scrimmage yards since like Chloe's box or whatever. Top five, but like my beloved Chloe Spocks. But I, I guess my question for you guys is while we're on this topic of sake, once underappreciated Saquon, I always thought would have the legacy of the last running back ever taken in the top two picks of the draft. And now with Ashton Gentee, who I'm stealing this from someone miserable on Twitter, but like someone tweeted that every time someone tries to tackle Ashton Gentee, it looks like they're getting electrocuted, which I can't get out of my head. How high should Ashton Genty be drafted? It. Should he. Ashton Gentee go in the top five?
- [88:40]
Todd McShay
I don't think he'll go in the top five. I do think he'll go in the top 20. I do think NFL team, everything's cyclical in the NFL, right. And. And it doesn't always come full circle and we're not going to go back to the like black and Blue division in 3 yards in the cloud. But running back value, that was only going to stay down so long. I do think it when as we're starting to circle back around and you're starting to see the impact that running backs can make with defenses that are constantly in nickel and it's got to be running backs that have the versatility to be on the field. But I do think if you're just studying the NFL this year, you're seeing more and more featured running backs, the impact they're having on games. Right. Gentee is special. He really is.
- [89:26]
Danny Heifetz
It's.
- [89:26]
Todd McShay
Does it make the evaluation process a little trickier that he's not playing the competition week in and week out? Yes. Does it. Is it a little concerning just as an evaluator now he's nicked up. He missed half the game the other night against Wyoming, in the beginning of the season, he was resting half the game. Now that's. They're clearly trying to get him, you know, the numbers and the Heisman Trophy campaign, I'm not saying that's why they're doing it, but they're needing more. He's needing more carries to accomplish the same end result of yards. And so it's now 25, 30, 35 carries per game. So there are some things that get concerning at that position, but from a talent standpoint, his, his ability to generate yards after contact, his contact balance, his vision, his burst when he, when he gets going, his ability to catch the ball out of the back like he's is completely complete, as you'll see. And I think this could be a historic running back class in terms of the number of running backs drafted, which hurts Gentee. Yes, but there's only one Gentee. So if you want the guy, it's going to have to be in the top 15, 20 picks. If not, I can draft two of them in rounds four through seven. And I feel really good that I'm going to get something one, if not two backs are going to contribute for a long time.
- [90:44]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, I've got Gentee as the fourth best player on my board. That's how much I like him. But I'm with Todd. I'm not going near him until. Yeah, I'm not going near him. And that's some of. That's the. What we talked about earlier, the top of this class. You don't have that stud offensive tackle. So there's some other things that play there, but he's one of the best running back prospects I've ever evaluated. I think he's that good. But I'm not going to 15 to 20. You just talked about Saquon. He's doing it for the Eagles. He didn't do it for the team. I mean, he played well for the Giants, but he's doing it with the Eagles because the Eagles have a better offensive line. Because the Eagles have.
- [91:16]
Todd McShay
I mean, God doesn't make guys that are like that are exceptional no matter what the circumstances. You just don't have you.
- [91:26]
Danny Heifetz
When you're driving it back that early, you have other issues. Almost always have other issues. So to me, it's. Again, we just got into this conversation about the quarterback. I think you have to have a good team surrounding that running back if you're going to take him that early.
- [91:39]
Mitch
And I mean, it's the Jim Harbaugh thing. You know, he spent all your saying, you know, the Offensive line is the position that makes everyone better. And I think that running back's kind of the fruit of, like, the Eagles having six years of building that line inside and out. I think. You know, Todd, before you hopped on mention, I were talking and I. I don't want to out you guys, but you guys met in 1995, I believe. Yeah, that is. That is the year I was born. And so I. Sorry. But I wanted to ask.
- [92:05]
Todd McShay
I say that because I.
- [92:06]
Mitch
Sorry.
- [92:06]
Todd McShay
It was kind of. Where are you going with this? This is maybe first. First and last time you're on the show.
- [92:11]
Mitch
Yeah, I know. Yeah. This is my last appearance in the McShay show, but I asked that because I see Jente being compared to Barry Sanders, and I wanted to ask you if that is sacrilege or if that is something I should. I should actually take seriously.
- [92:24]
Todd McShay
It's sacrilege. You're just not allowed to. You're just not allowed to. I mean, for whatever reason, he's. It's like, you know, the holy grave of running back scouting. Like, holy grail, whatever it's called. Grave. What am I talking about? See, you threw me off. No, I think. Yeah. I mean, no one's Barry.
- [92:42]
Danny Heifetz
He.
- [92:42]
Todd McShay
And he. And his run style is not the same as Barry. I mean, Barry was. He had everything, but, like, his ability to make guys miss was. I mean, we've never seen it before and may never see it again. Like, he was just so different than every other back. But I think there are a lot of other great running backs that you can compare them to. Like, a lot of them. And it. To me, it's. It. How do you create yards? You know, you see the statistic, like, which I think it has value to it, but the forced missed tackles and the ability to do it both with power and with. With quickness and elusiveness, you know, he can do it with both. And, like, speed is good. You like to have it. It's down the line of things that you're looking for running back. But my. Like, he. He's just so complete. He really the number one thing for me with running backs, and it's overused now, I feel like. But contact, balance. And what does that mean? That means when. When in the NFL, you're not going 7, 9 yards very often without having contact with some, without running into a defender. How many. Get. How many times can you break through that without being disoriented and having to start over? How do you break through contact? You know, and like, Arian Foster was one of the Best running backs with contact balance, the ability like skiing down a slope and break and break. So, like, I just, I go through, like the Rolodex of great backs and they all. Almost, almost all. Not all. Like, Jameer Gibbs has really good contact balance, but it's different than Jinty's because he has the speed and hitting 23 miles an hour on, you know, so. But he, yeah, he's special. He really is. And certainly one of the great stories of the college football season with Boise State sitting there and they've got a who. They got away with one at Wyoming and they got a chance to, to get into the College Football Playoff. And he's going to be in New York for the Heisman and certainly will be a great start in the NFL draft. But, but like Mensch said, while I love the Gentee story, how big of an impact is he going to have in the 2025 NFL season? You know, I totally agree.
- [94:53]
Mitch
I mean, again, as someone who watched the Giants take Saquon Barkley and now we actually literally have proof of how good Saquon Barkley is. It's not necessarily how you build a team. If you're picking high enough to take them, that's probably not going to solve your problems.
- [95:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah, Bijan Robinson is probably a better comparison. If you're talking about early, early draft picks, I think their run style is more similar, you know.
- [95:14]
Mitch
Well, thank you guys for humoring me with this Giants fan therapy session. I think I, I think I owe you guys, like, a fee. Do you guys take the health care or how does this work?
- [95:23]
Todd McShay
Well, I'm just, I'm, you know, we. The goal, the goal was go to go to get through the top five picks. And not surprisingly, we got through two with the New York Giants sitting at number two. But good thing we have about four or five months still to finish up this project. No, we love having you on, man. This is fun. We'll have to do it again. We appreciate what you do. Excited to kind of team up as we get closer to the NFL draft. We know you host the NFL draft show. We're Mensch mentioned mention will probably be hard to get, but every once in a while I'm happy to come on and have some of these same conversations as we get closer to the last weekend in April.
- [95:59]
Mitch
Perfect. Thank you guys so much for having me. Yeah, we'll get the other 30 picks at some point soon in the future. Yeah.
- [96:05]
Todd McShay
All right, brother. And go Spiders.
- [96:07]
Danny Heifetz
Go spider.
- [96:09]
Todd McShay
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