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The McShay Show
A Two-Way Travis Hunter Scouting Report. Plus: Indiana–Ohio State Expectations and Best Bets With Chris “The Bear” Fallica.
01:51:08
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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is presented by FanDuel. College Football Saturdays are packed with action and FanDuel is where you can score every game day. Let's face it, November is everything in college football. The playoff picture is starting to become more clear. This is the first year with the 12 team playoff and we have some critical matchups throughout this month. Why we Love fanduel There's so many markets like spreads over unders, national championship futures going to get a part of that and so much more. This app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG help.com this.
- [01:02]
Mitch
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- [01:42]
Todd McShay
It's a Tuesday edition of the McShay Show. We got a fun one lined up today. First of all, we want to do this project right. Everyone evaluates Travis Hunter, the cop, Colorado star, Heisman favorite right now as a cornerback slash receiver. But if you look at history, it's probable that he's going to have to choose one position. So I tasked my guy mensch go study him as a cornerback. I tasked myself study him as a wide receiver. We're going to give you an evaluation on Travis Hunter. Both positions. We're going to separate it and talk about where he could wind up in this NFL draft. In addition, asked an answer, we're going to debut this segment. We need more feedback on this show. We talked about it the last couple of weeks. We need your questions sent out. A tweet, an ex post, whatever you call it. Got a lot of great questions. We're going to get to a handful of them today. I'm going to make that a consistent thing on the Tuesday Thursday show. And then finally the Bear, my guy. I'm so excited to have Chris Felica who's now with Fox. He's got Bear Betts his podcast. He's going to join the show. He's going to talk to us about all things gambling, college football, previewing the game he's going to in Columbus this week, Indiana versus Ohio State. It's a monster matchup. And also just go through the college football rankings and we'll preview the college Football playoff and what we think the rankings should be mentioned. It's going to be a fun one, man. It's week 13 in college football, week 12 in the NFL and just 156 days until the NFL draft meant. You good?
- [03:12]
Mitch
I'm good, man.
- [03:13]
Chris Felica
All right.
- [03:13]
Todd McShay
Play those tunes, man. How's your assignment? How'd it go?
- [03:32]
Mitch
M. I mean when you're watching the guy like Travis Hunter, it's pretty easy, right?
- [03:36]
Todd McShay
Not bad, right?
- [03:37]
Mitch
Feels like stealing. It's not work anymore.
- [03:39]
Todd McShay
So I just mentioned it. I feel like everywhere I watch, everywhere I listen, everywhere I read, it's when we talk about the 2025 NFL Draft, it's always Travis Hunter, wide receiver, cornerback. Right. But I was going through this match, right? Charles Woodson, one of the best two way players in college football history, won the Heisman, you know, monster final year at Michigan. Do you know how many receptions he had in. In 18 years in the NFL?
- [04:07]
Mitch
Zero.
- [04:08]
Todd McShay
Two.
- [04:09]
Mitch
Two. Okay.
- [04:10]
Todd McShay
Another guy, Champ Bailey, phenomenal two way player at Georgia, special player. Right. Played 15 years in the NFL. How many receptions he had more.
- [04:19]
Mitch
Right. I don't know though.
- [04:20]
Todd McShay
He, yeah, he did have more. Four.
- [04:22]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [04:22]
Chris Felica
Yeah.
- [04:23]
Mitch
Okay. He doubled up like just like I thought, man.
- [04:27]
Todd McShay
Nailed it. And then Deion Sanders, who's obviously coach prime, is coaching Travis Hunter. They're basically family, right. I think might be the most applicable.
- [04:39]
Mitch
Right.
- [04:39]
Todd McShay
Combination. When we think of Dion, we think about the versatility, not just football and baseball, but you know, in the NFL, the return. Well known. Well known in the return game, which is no longer the thing that it was back in the 90s or you know, so, so. But his value at wide receiver was. Was there. Much more so than Woodson. Much more so than Champ bailey. He had 60 receptions in the NFL. Primarily a corner, one of the great all time return guys. But, but is that a route in today's NFL that's going to factor into the evaluation for Travis Hunter? No. And, but he did have 60 receptions in the NFL. But the interesting part with it, like Champ and, and Chuck and Charles Woodson, they played both ways in college. Dion didn't. Dion I looked at just to double check to make sure I was right on. Florida State did not have a single reception.
- [05:33]
Mitch
Right.
- [05:33]
Todd McShay
The all time great return men and obviously a phenomenal corner. I think he's still in the top five in, in college football history or Florida State history. I think with 14 interceptions. I want to say I forget what the number was, but it was 13 or 14.
- [05:45]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [05:45]
Todd McShay
Yeah. My point is that Dion didn't play both ways in college and had more receptions, but still was only 60 receptions. So very limited impact. So with that is the backdrop and with Travis Hunter Being 6 foot 1 and 185 to 191 pounds is what I've seen the range for his weight.
- [06:05]
Mitch
Right.
- [06:06]
Todd McShay
With the shoulder injury he had earlier the season with the nicks and bruises and missed time he's had over his career. Not massive, not huge.
- [06:15]
Mitch
Right.
- [06:15]
Todd McShay
But conditioning, does he have it to do it in the NFL? Yes. But skill wise, can you as a player commit to a position and be elite at that position while also doing it on the other side of the ball? History has shown us it's, it's no. The answer is no. There can be an impact, but it's not going to be the impact that he's had at Colorado. Okay, so I tasked you and tasked myself with. Let's, let's treat it as separate entities. Like when we're evaluating players on tape. It's, it's the helmet, it's the jersey number and studying them, what their, their skill set is. Who are they at this position? Right.
- [06:58]
Mitch
Right.
- [06:59]
Todd McShay
So let's separate Travis Hunter. Pretend almost like he's two different human beings. Two different evaluations. Who is, who is he as a, as a corner.
- [07:09]
Mitch
Right.
- [07:10]
Todd McShay
Who is he as a. As a wide receiver as it pertains to the upcoming NFL draft. And we've got the, we broke down the traits. We've gonna. We're going to go through this year's wide receiver and cornerback class. We're going to go through last year's and try to place him where we think at each separate position.
- [07:26]
Chris Felica
So.
- [07:27]
Mitch
Right.
- [07:27]
Todd McShay
The floor is now yours, Mensch.
- [07:30]
Mitch
Yep.
- [07:30]
Todd McShay
You evaluated him solely as a cornerback. And I want to hear what you're. And obviously I've studied the tape as well. You've studied the wide receiver tape. But for these purposes I'm going to let you. You're the area scout. You're the cross check. You're coming into the GM's office and you're going to break down what, what he is as a cornerback, right? And so that's where I want you to go and, and, and tell me what you think of him.
- [07:56]
Mitch
So the first thing, when I look at corners, I want to see them impress. I want to see how they match up one on one and press. And no surprise here, considering who he plays for. He is a fundamentally sound press corner who is physical. He's, he's lean, you mentioned it, but he's physical, he's tough. He can make it hard for guys to get off the line. He can turn and run with guys. He can mirror receivers release. So right away he can, he can match up and press. The other thing I want to see is how are the ball skills? And you're going to get into this as a receiver. I'm guessing you gave him elite ball skills.
- [08:27]
Todd McShay
Did you get an elite ball game?
- [08:29]
Mitch
He has an elite ball skill grade at receiver for McShay. He's going to have elite ball skills.
- [08:34]
Todd McShay
For a corner, no question.
- [08:36]
Mitch
You know, what's interesting to me is I went back and I want to see every interception a player makes in the year. He has three so far this year. So let's go back and look at the three. You know, the one he had against Colorado, Colorado State is beautiful. Runs the route for the receiver, snatches the ball out of the air. The two other ones I think really bring it. Talk about the next trait that I want to talk about, which is our instincts and recognition.
- [08:57]
Todd McShay
And if just to interrupt you real quickly, if you're watching this on, on YouTube, watching the video podcast version of the podcast, you'll see here, this is, this is his cornerback specific traits. We do this for every position. We've done it with the quarterbacks. You'll see wide receiver later. But these are the cornerback specific traits. First one instincts, recognition, most important. And people overlook that. They want to see the length, the speed and all those things are critical. But the best corners in the NFL, the guys who translate the best have elite instincts and recognition typically. And just ripping through this and you can go in more detail, but you've given him a grade of one, meaning that's elite. One is elite. Two is above average to good. Three is average. Four is below average, five is marginal. And you've given him the first three traits, instincts and recognition. A one elite cover skills, one elite ball skills, one elite run support, three average. So go ahead, pick up where you left off.
- [09:55]
Mitch
So I'll just, you know, looking at those two picks, there's one from Utah, there's one from ucf. We'll talk about the Utah because it just happened this past weekend. It's not as, it's, you know, he, he's not making a one on one play but what he does is he disconnects from the receivers that he's covering. He tracks the ball, he stays in the play. I think this is about Travis Hunter as a football player, by the way. He's not just a talented kid, man, he's a, he's a really good football player I think who loves the game. He stays involved in the play. He easily could have just stayed on the receiver that he was covering. But no, he gets, he disconnects from that receiver, tracks the ball. Ball gets deflected, pulls it out of the air. There's another interception, UCF game. He's sitting there baiting the quarterback to throw that ball. He is just staring down that quarterback and then explodes off his back foot and makes this great diving catch kind of again, all these things lead into one of. One thing leads into another. Can he play other systems than just the press corner? Is he just a press corner? No, he could play zone. He is just as good in any of those other looks that you want to give him because again, his instincts, his ability to read receivers, his ability to read quarterbacks. One of the most impressive things about this time, you know from. From where? Richmond. When you play in college football, they come in the week of the game and I'm sure it's the same in the pros. I didn't play in the pros. They come in the week of the game and they throw a 20 page game plan in front of you. This is the, this is who you're going to face. He's good at this, he's bad at that. This is the look we expect to see the formation. I as an offensive lineman at Richmond had a hard enough time absorbing that and having Frank Leonard all over me about it. I can't imagine playing two positions and having just play. Have a game plan at two positions at.
- [11:36]
Todd McShay
Yeah, the wide receiver, the install for each week.
- [11:38]
Mitch
Yeah, I can't, I cannot imagine. I think it speaks to how intelligent he is as a few, as a football player.
- [11:45]
Todd McShay
I agree.
- [11:45]
Mitch
Something that cannot be overlooked.
- [11:48]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I completely agree. To further your evaluation, I ironically coming into it and coming into this year, I kind of always thought it like cornerback was his primary spot. Yeah, Receiver. He was just kind of just relying on athleticism and we'll get to wide receiver. I think there's more polish to be done at corner in terms of technique and certain things that you need at the cornerback position than there is a receiver. Which was surprising to me. I wrote down in my notes. I think he's at his best actually. He's not a physical tackler I think. And you put that in your, in your breakdown of the. Of the cornerback specific traits. When you look at three run support, significant drop off from all the other other traits there. I don't think he's a great tackler. I do agree that he's so like it's kind of this not a contradiction but it's interesting in that at 185 to 191 pounds he is physical in coverage and most importantly.
- [12:51]
Chris Felica
Right.
- [12:51]
Todd McShay
He's at his best in press but he but inconsistent as a tackler. Not great in support. You know some of the things you see out of. Out of. With the jets having a.
- [13:07]
Mitch
Sauce Gardener.
- [13:07]
Todd McShay
Sauce Gardener.
- [13:08]
Chris Felica
Right.
- [13:08]
Todd McShay
Sauce Gardener feels like it keeps getting worse. But I think Sauce is kind of not saying this is the NFL comp for him but I'm saying some of the frustration the jets fans have with Sauce is that he's great, impressed, great. One on one he'll blanket your number one guy and let's face it, that's where you make your money. But there's been so many plays and so many missed tackles that have led to big plays for the opponent and, and you kind of see some of those, those issues there. Lack of size and the tackling issues or concerns only 185, 191 pounds.
- [13:43]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [13:43]
Chris Felica
And.
- [13:43]
Todd McShay
And durability. Durability because at receiver you're going to take hits at cornerback. Durability like the shoulder injury we saw against Kansas State.
- [13:56]
Mitch
Right, right.
- [13:58]
Todd McShay
Durability is going to show up to me. I'm more concerned at cornerback than I am wide receiver. And now if you're talking about playing Both and right. 120 snaps or something ridiculous.
- [14:08]
Mitch
Even over an 18 game after 17 games season and grown ass men every.
- [14:13]
Todd McShay
Week and getting targeted and, and having to go initiate that contact with your shoulder, you know like that's concerned. The durability is more concerning at cornerback than it is. Than it is a wide receiver. So where are you as a cornerback? Do you. I mean we can look at this year's class. We can look at last year's class if you're following along in video.
- [14:36]
Mitch
Yeah, let's. We got the. We got the graphic right here for last year's class. First of all, can I say this? How in the world.
- [14:44]
Todd McShay
I have no ideals.
- [14:45]
Mitch
Get those two players at those spots.
- [14:47]
Todd McShay
You didn't even have to.
- [14:48]
Mitch
Quinon Mitchell should have gone. I. I think he was the. He was like the number seven or. He was the number seven player on my board. I think. Yeah, he's the number 10 player on my board. Yeah. We go with 22.
- [14:58]
Todd McShay
We both had him in the top 10 to 12.
- [15:00]
Mitch
Yeah. To go at 22. Come on. I actually like Hunter better than Mitchell, though, to be honest with you. Mitchell had an unbelievable lead up to the. To the draft. He's playing really well now. Yeah, I do.
- [15:13]
Chris Felica
I think.
- [15:13]
Todd McShay
Because really, you like Travis Hunter as a cornerback prospect more than Quinon Mitchell?
- [15:18]
Mitch
Yeah, I have a high. A slightly higher grade on him.
- [15:20]
Chris Felica
Yeah.
- [15:21]
Todd McShay
Interesting.
- [15:21]
Mitch
I do. Okay. I think they're right there. I think they're. They're in the same conversation, to be honest with you. Okay. So, yeah, I would have him slightly ahead. I. You know, if you look at the year before, the guy that he kind of reminds me of, that was the eighth player on my board that year was Christian Gonzalez out of Oregon. Yes. Who's playing for the Patriots now. He's. He's got that kind of a vibe.
- [15:42]
Todd McShay
And kind of similar complaints living here in New England. Like, unbelievable in coverage. He's like. He. He's almost surpassed the expectations. And the expectations were high in coverage, but the missed tackles also missed some.
- [15:56]
Mitch
Time last year, I think, with a shoulder injury. Interesting enough. Obviously, that's not a apples to apples thing, but he just reminds me of Go ahead. So. Yeah. And then if you're looking at this year. Yeah, there's a lot of Go ahead.
- [16:09]
Todd McShay
I was just going to say, ironically, like, we go back sometimes in years, and we're going back to 2024 and 2023 to try to stack them, to give a perspective on where they are. But interestingly enough, like, I would argue if you put the three cornerback classes together, you know, Witherspoon was 2023, and he was. He.
- [16:31]
Chris Felica
Five.
- [16:31]
Todd McShay
He was five overall.
- [16:33]
Mitch
I think he was. Yeah.
- [16:34]
Todd McShay
Seattle.
- [16:34]
Mitch
Yeah, he was fifth overall, but I.
- [16:36]
Todd McShay
But I would argue Will Johnson. And I know this year he's kind of. Yeah, he was a little up and down early. He had a couple great games. Hasn't played a lot recently.
- [16:48]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [16:49]
Todd McShay
You know, has he. Has he checked out?
- [16:52]
Mitch
Remember we talked about Derek Stingley like that?
- [16:54]
Todd McShay
Oh, I was just gonna say Derek Stingley.
- [16:57]
Mitch
He's all right. Right?
- [16:58]
Todd McShay
I think he's doing just fine. Doing just fine.
- [17:00]
Chris Felica
Okay with that.
- [17:01]
Todd McShay
So. Yeah. But Will Johnson, I would argue, is up there. It's not. I'm not going to sit here and say Will Johnson has better grade than Witherspoon. Like, we're not there yet in the process. But he's, he's up there with the elite cornerbacks from the last two drafts. So I think it's all like now it's. In your opinion, based off of Will Johnson, all the tape I know you've studied. If, if I told you, you. There is no wide receiver Travis Hunter.
- [17:25]
Mitch
Right.
- [17:25]
Todd McShay
It's just you get, you get a cornerback who. Yeah, maybe we'll give you two catches like Charles Woodson or four catches like Champ Bailey through his career or, or even 60 over a, you know, more than a decade career like Dion. So, yeah, if I were to tell you you're just getting the cornerback, Travis Hunter, is he higher than Will Johnson, in your opinion?
- [17:45]
Mitch
No, I still have Will. I mean, this is. But again, this is how good. I think that Will Johnson is not.
- [17:52]
Todd McShay
An indictment on Travis.
- [17:54]
Mitch
Not at all. I mean, this class is good. I mean, you look at Benjamin Morrison out of Notre Dame, like these three corners, and there's questions about.
- [18:00]
Todd McShay
We just, we just highlighted Jade Barron from Texas.
- [18:03]
Mitch
Yeah. You're looking at the top of this class. There's some questions because of injuries. Even Revel out of East Carolina. Yep. Look like he was going to be that Quinon Mitchell kind of arc where he's just going to explode this year. He's going to test super well. He's got some good tape. He's another guy to get to keep an eye on. But getting back to the Will Johnson a little bigger, a little more physical, and I think that's kind of what separates them more. I think he's a little bit of a better run defender. Same kind of instinct, same kind of COVID skills. I've. I see almost the same kind of plays from him. And when you look at that UCF pick, Will Johnson does that really well. I think he had a pick six early in the season on, on a similar play where he's like, no, no, you got that guy. You could throw it to him and just explodes off the back foot and you're going the other way. So Will Johnson, I think is an elite corner prospect. I have both of those guys in my top five overall, by the way.
- [18:52]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [18:53]
Mitch
So, I mean, that's, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about. This is a Class that I think could be, you know, could compare to 2022 when Stingley, I think went 4 and Gardner went 5 or something like that. They both went very early and I had Gardner ahead of Stingley at the time. It hasn't really worked out that way recently, but I think it's a similar class.
- [19:15]
Todd McShay
All right, so that's him as a corner.
- [19:17]
Chris Felica
Yeah.
- [19:18]
Todd McShay
So we're talking potential top five pick as a corner. Second corner back in this year's class stacks up with the, the top corners that we've seen in the last two drafts.
- [19:27]
Mitch
Right.
- [19:30]
Chris Felica
Clear.
- [19:30]
Todd McShay
Let me clear my throat before we.
- [19:32]
Mitch
Silly.
- [19:34]
Todd McShay
I think he's a better wide receiver. Prospecting, corner prospect.
- [19:37]
Mitch
I agree with you and I, and I agree with you all, like about not seeing it coming into the year. I thought that was his second position. You know, it's cool that he can do that.
- [19:46]
Todd McShay
It was going to be a great add on and maybe we get 20 snaps out of him at wide receiver. I, I think, I think when you look at. Let's get into him as a receiver first, let's start here. Okay. Let's throw up the, the graphic for the wide receiver position specifics. I went 2 on routes, meaning above average, good, but not elite. And I say that and I want, I want people to hear this when I say it. He's, he's. There's no wasted motion. He doesn't have to gear down to get in and out of breaks. Smooth and crisp as an athlete, accelerates to top speed in a flash, really threatens you as a cornerback. So he has all the traits to be a great route runner in the NFL and create separation with his feet and quickness. Right. I think there's still room for some polish. I think there's still room in terms of like an NFL route tree. I'm not saying he's not running it, but there's a lot of screens and drags and like just kind of getting to an area. I do love his instincts versus zone, finding soft spots, knowing, you know, working back to his. To his quarterback, which I think he's improved upon this year. I didn't think he was always great at that last year, but I give him a two because. And again, couching it a little bit. He's really quick and crafty getting off the line of scrimmage. I don't think that's going to be the issue. But what I watch consistently too often, let's put it that way, defensive backs that are able to get their hands on him and kind of muscle him out of his routes, take him off his track. Right, right. And, and I think that that's a problem that's only going to improve with continued, you know, bulk and strength right out losing speed and explosiveness. He's just, he's got it. I think he's strong for his size, but he's got that lean, lanky frame. Looks a lot like, you know, like Garrett Wilson when you watch him, like so great in so many areas. But there's, there's too many times where you feel like he's getting muscled a little bit when the ball's in the air, you know, like that kind of separating him from being like he's one of the elite receivers in the NFL, but from like taking that next step. I, I think, I, I think when you, when you study Travis, if he can improve his size and bulk and strength to be more sturdy as both a route runner and when the ball's in the air kind of contestant catches, I think that's an area he can prove. But you see the rest of this ball skills. One elite. Like there's. I don't see many body catches on tape. I see, I see a guy what separates like the, the two grade versus the one grade. For me, guys that are able to pluck the ball and, and already know what their first move is. It's like the focus on the ball, but like the bot. The body's moving while the eyes and hands are still right.
- [22:33]
Mitch
It jumps out when you watch them. It like, it, it. It's like that's, you know, when you're trying to explain to someone that trait you, you want to show Travis Hunter, he's the teach tape.
- [22:42]
Todd McShay
It's a hand eye coordination that's different than other guys. There are plenty of receivers. We see double catches. We see ball, ball getting to body. We see fighting it. At times we see they really have to like go secure it. The elite guys. It's like, yeah, I know I have to, I know I have to complete this process, get complete A to get to B. But it ain't, it ain't that hard for me, you know? No, that's why I give him elite ball skills, big playability. I, again, I think, I think his, his lack of elite size and elite strength, like down the field, he gets muscled around on some of those jump balls and all that. But in terms of his run after catch, that when the ball is in Travis Hunter's hands, yeah, that's when he is a special different football player, period. He does a lot of things great. Travis Hunter does a lot of things great at wide receiver. He does a lot of things great at cornerback. But when that football is in Travis Hunter's hands, that's when he's different, man. And he also speed to get over the top, so.
- [23:43]
Mitch
Right.
- [23:43]
Todd McShay
Big playability. While, you know, his numbers don't jump out and all that. And he doesn't have like three deep ball catches every week. He is a weapon on offense. Couldn't.
- [23:55]
Mitch
I couldn't agree more.
- [23:56]
Todd McShay
And then. Go ahead.
- [23:58]
Mitch
Sorry. When we talk about those instincts too, one of the things I really like about him is the way that he attracts and adjusts downfield. And there's something that I've noticed about his game. To get into the weeds a little bit here is he's. He is leaner. You're right. He's got to get some more body armor, a little more durable. He's got a bit stronger. So he's better in those 50, 50 situations. But he does win 50, 50 balls. And the reason I think is because of the way he tracks, the way he can adjust while the ball is in the air. And he's really good. And North Dakota State would argue that he got overly physical in some of those routes. Too bad wasn't called. He does a really good job of moving defenders and getting inside leverage to get to a ball without extending. And that is an instinct. That is not something. It's. It is when you were moving at that rate, telling a player, teaching a player how to do that. I don't know how you can do it. That is something.
- [24:48]
Todd McShay
I think you either have it or you don't.
- [24:50]
Mitch
You don't. Right. And he has it. He knows how he will. He'll like use his hands to move a guy but never get caught fully extending. And it's just another element of the instincts of the ball scales. It all kind of wraps up when you. When you're looking at a player as a whole. But just something again that's jumped out to me that I think is super impressive.
- [25:07]
Todd McShay
Yeah. I'm just going down my pros and cons. I. I watched three more tapes. I. Last year I watched every target that he had from 2023. This year I picked three games. Nebraska, Arizona. I also had watched a lot of tape getting ready.
- [25:21]
Chris Felica
Right.
- [25:21]
Todd McShay
Doing this door tape. So like it was some. Some repetitive and then. And then this past week as well. Utah. So some of the notes I wrote like. And we've covered a lot of it but just ripped down. Explosive with ball in hands. Best trait reaches top speed Quickly and. And elusive. I put an exclamation next to stop start love. Love his stop start ability. Right?
- [25:44]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Todd McShay
Versatile. I love the fact that like you don't.
- [25:47]
Mitch
You.
- [25:48]
Todd McShay
You don't even. It's not like an. An event when he's playing inside or outside. He's just like he's playing inside or outside. He's playing the left side or right side. Plays on the right. Probably a little bit more of the left. I don't have the numbers. But he can play both sides of the feet. It's not like he's right pigeon hold to one thing. Just an outside receiver. Just a slot.
- [26:05]
Mitch
He.
- [26:06]
Chris Felica
He's just.
- [26:06]
Todd McShay
They move him around. Creative getting off the line of scrimmage. I told you that Just how so quick he is. And also he has a plan. It's not like guys were just like he has a plan. He knows how he's going to get up. And it's a different plan. Frequently smooth and efficient routes. Not many wasted steps. Great instincts versus zone which we covered hand Plucker can climb and adjust. That's something I didn't talk about climb and adjust. He's got vertical man. You see it and it's easy vertical.
- [26:34]
Mitch
It's easy timing. Yeah.
- [26:36]
Todd McShay
Easy vertical and then speed to get over the top. Now the cons. Two things and one's nitpicking. I'll just get it out of the way. My goodness. Does he need to tuck the ball away sometimes. And he's gotten away with it.
- [26:50]
Mitch
I don't do it.
- [26:51]
Todd McShay
I don't have his fumble numbers or anything. But like I see on tape sometimes where I'm just like. You know. But it speaks to his instincts. He knows when to protect it. But that he will not get away with that as frequently.
- [27:04]
Mitch
Right.
- [27:04]
Todd McShay
The NFL. But much more importantly to his. His evaluation as a receiver. He needs to improve his play strength. It's the same thing at corner and wide receiver. And we just talked knocked off routes. Struggles on some contested. I just. That's where he's going to have to improve if he wants to take his game to another level.
- [27:22]
Mitch
Right.
- [27:22]
Todd McShay
So with that as a bet. Yeah. Go ahead.
- [27:26]
Mitch
Can I address the X trolls that I'm guessing may respond to. To this video. Yeah. Or this. This pod is. Yeah. I know that. I know that Travis got beat over the top against Utah. I know that happened. I felt like there was a couple plays and a couple balls in the Texas Tech game that he could have got and he didn't come down with. He is not. It's important that these, these are not perfect players. They're like the tape is. There's going to be plays where they're, they're not at their best. He got caught flat footed and off coverage. I don't think that's the best look for him on when he got beat over the top against Utah, maybe peaked into the backfield. I'm not overly worried because you don't see it a lot. One bad play. You know, this is a, we're always looking at the body.
- [28:07]
Todd McShay
What and what can he be?
- [28:08]
Mitch
Right.
- [28:09]
Todd McShay
So yeah, in this, this, what, you know what makes this a unique evaluation, bud, is where we're studying this tape and this is why I wanted to do it, where you just go and evaluate him as a. Right. And I go and evaluate him as a wide receiver. But the thing that I didn't even think about that I'm thinking about now is when I go evaluate Teteroa McMillan.
- [28:35]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [28:35]
Todd McShay
When I go evaluate Luther Burden from Missouri or Isaiah Bond for Texas or Jalen Royals for Utah State, some of the other wide receivers in this class, when I go evaluate them, I'm not thinking about, oh, they also played 68 snaps on defense today.
- [28:49]
Mitch
Right.
- [28:50]
Todd McShay
You know what I mean?
- [28:51]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [28:51]
Todd McShay
So I like when I was doing it, I wasn't even conscious of the fact like, oh, he's wearing down. Oh, he doesn't look like he has.
- [28:57]
Mitch
Right.
- [28:58]
Todd McShay
Which is unbelievable.
- [29:01]
Mitch
Unreal.
- [29:01]
Todd McShay
Because I'm watching plays in the third quarter or early in the fourth quarter where he's played over 100 snaps in that game. And so as a. Because the scouting process is this, the, the area scouts and you break up for every organization, you break up area scouts, you know, Northeast, Midwest, West Coast, Southwest, Southeast, and how different teams kind of do it differently. Then you have like a top 100 scout typically. Right. And so it's their process in the, you know, they, they get. Sometimes I call scouts in April and they're like, yeah, I'm not even like, I'm done with my meetings with the team. Like, I'm on to next year's class. So it's like 13 months, you know, and obviously it goes beyond that. But 13 months focus on these players. But they start the evaluation, they get it go, they bring it to the team. They. Then they have cross checks, you know, so now, now if I'm in the Northeast scout, I'm going to cross check and cross checks are done by position. So we'll talk to a Northeast scout who's done that whole region all season long, who now is in charge of wide receivers and offensive linemen or what, you know, whatever those two positions are. And so now there's a second check. But then at some point in the process, when the NFL season is over, the coaches get involved.
- [30:13]
Mitch
Right.
- [30:14]
Todd McShay
So the general manager managers overlooking it, the college scouting directors overlooking it, they're building up the report. They're taking, like, getting all this information in and starting to stack the board. But then the college, Then the NFL coaches get involved with the organization as we get to, like, the Senior bowl, as we get to the. The combine. And so when. When I think about those meetings and I think about corner, you know, defensive back coaches banging on the table, because you got to remember they're gonna be like, no, I want Travis as a corner. And then there's wide receiver, you know, coaches banging on the table.
- [30:47]
Chris Felica
And.
- [30:47]
Todd McShay
But. And I can hear them now in those meetings that we've. We have a hundred amazing stories of the yelling, the screaming, the fighting.
- [30:55]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [30:55]
Todd McShay
The bickering, the backstabbing. But, yeah, I mean, come. No, I know if we could share any of those, we could do, like, 10 podcast series on them. How many amazing stories.
- [31:06]
Mitch
Bravo would make a show out of that.
- [31:08]
Todd McShay
So. But I can hear the receiver coach now being like, hey, can you imagine what I can do with him if I just get him as a wide receiver?
- [31:18]
Chris Felica
Yeah.
- [31:18]
Todd McShay
And he's not. His mental focus is not on both positions all week, and his physical focus is not on both positions. And then in game, he's only playing 60 snaps for us versus 130 or 140. And so that's when it's going to get real interesting. And I. And I say that because you're always evaluating the. The entire picture as a prospect, and you're always having to push the conversation forward. What can he be?
- [31:48]
Mitch
Right.
- [31:48]
Todd McShay
And to me, like, the what can he be Is so intriguing because you can take half of his workload off his plate.
- [31:57]
Mitch
Yeah. And you can bring him tie into that.
- [32:00]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [32:00]
Mitch
You see all of those things, right? I agree with everything you're saying. It all makes sense. It all. It's all true. This is a dude that turned down the FBS to go play for Coach prime at Jackson State because he felt Coach prime was going to make him the best football player that he could be.
- [32:17]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [32:17]
Mitch
He. You know, all these kids are like.
- [32:19]
Todd McShay
Oh, I think we're all throwing a million for it. If I remember correctly. Whatever.
- [32:23]
Mitch
All these. Tell me, tell me if I'm wrong.
- [32:25]
Todd McShay
That you're not wrong.
- [32:26]
Mitch
A million that. That all These other kids are what power five school you go into.
- [32:31]
Todd McShay
You.
- [32:31]
Mitch
Oh, you're going to Jackson State. Really? You're gonna go to Jackson State? He turned down the FBS because he felt like this was going to be the place that made him the best player. That's why, you know, when you hear Coach Brian talk about this kid, I mean, there you understand why when you look at the. The arc and the relationship and the.
- [32:48]
Todd McShay
Way it's developed, there's a commitment to one another that is very unique.
- [32:52]
Mitch
It's one of the best stories in college football in my mind.
- [32:54]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And so. So I. I just. I. I look at this and I think to myself, all right, so when we get to that process, because we just told you the numbers on Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, even Dion, who probably was the most prolific both sides of the ball, just 60 catches in his long career.
- [33:10]
Chris Felica
Right?
- [33:10]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [33:12]
Todd McShay
Teams have got to look at this. Which one is he playing? And. And I just keep going back. First of all, not that this necessarily matters. A cornerback has never been drafted number one overall.
- [33:22]
Mitch
Right.
- [33:24]
Todd McShay
But you guys also got to go back to. Keyshawn Johnson's, the last receiver selected with the top overall pick, and that was 1996. Okay.
- [33:31]
Mitch
Yep.
- [33:33]
Todd McShay
The wide receiver position, we just threw up a graphic here last year. Marvin Harrison, Malik Neighbors, Romo Dunes, Dunesay, Brian Thomas. This was a really good. You get all the way Xavier worthy. What he's.
- [33:48]
Mitch
What.
- [33:48]
Todd McShay
What he's done with the Chiefs. Ricky Pell. Pell, who obviously got shot.
- [33:54]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [33:54]
Todd McShay
Like, just an unbelievable story. The fact that he's back on the field and has his first touchdown catch a couple weeks ago. And to me, it really comes down to.
- [34:03]
Chris Felica
I would have.
- [34:04]
Todd McShay
I would still have Marvin Harrison ahead of Travis Hunter. I would have Malik Neighbors. It would be right there where the discussion would be absolutely ahead of Rome. Absolutely ahead of Brian Thomas and. And all those other guys.
- [34:17]
Mitch
So love Roma Dunes. Love Roma Dunes. Again, let's keep this in perspective. That's how good this kid is.
- [34:24]
Todd McShay
Right? So the discussion for me, I had. We weren't working together last year. I had my. My little sabbatical, we'll call it, but I had Roma Dunes a one notch ahead of Marvin Harrison. So. And both with, like, exceptional grades, and they both had great seasons in different regards and all that, but I think he's in that category. I would probably put him just the tiniest notch below those two guys. But also remember, that's pick four and pick six, Harrison and Neighbors, respectively, in a draft that had Caleb Williams in A draft that had Jaden Daniels. Right. And so this year there is like Shador, his teammate is probably going to be the first quarterback off the board. But we'll see how and first we've already done a show on that. We'll do many more on on where prime is that the Raiders? Let's look at the draft order right now. Okay.
- [35:20]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [35:20]
Todd McShay
Jacksonville is picking it number one ironically. Not ironically, but interestingly enough cornerback and wide receiver, top two needs. If the draft were held today, Tennessee is a number two pick quarterback. In my opinion they may not agree. They may want to be more have a longer leash on Will Levis. But wide receivers outside of quarterback, their number one need. Cleveland quarterback but then wide receiver Vegas could be seems like the most likely landing spot for, for Shador. But if it's not quarterback, it's wide receiver, it's going to be quarterback in Vegas you got to believe. And then the New York Giants quarterback, you've got to believe too. This is going to be fascinating when we get to the quarterbacks but my point is you look at all of those teams, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Cleveland, Vegas, Giants. If the draft were held today, the top five teams picking quarterback is a top need for all four of them with the exception of Jacksonville one. But after that it's, it's wide receiver and or cornerback as the next highest need. So he's going to one of those spots. And if you go back to last year's class with those quarterbacks, right, with Caleb Williams, with Jaden Daniels, with Drake May, the receivers got bumped down just a little bit, but only for quarterbacks.
- [36:35]
Mitch
Yeah. Still three in the top 10 and.
- [36:38]
Todd McShay
So yeah, yeah, three in the top 10 and wide receiver was four and six. And so even if you have him rated just a notch below those top two guys, we're talking about him going somewhere in the top five.
- [36:51]
Mitch
Right. Let me ask you this. You're the GM for the Cleveland Browns and Coach prime and Travis Hunter and their team are looking at what Ohtani's done with the Dodgers and the Angels and they think look at the, look at this like phenomenon in pro sports. And we want Travis Hunter to play both ways. We want him to take the Ohtani route and we're going to go to a team and say if you're taking them, we expect him to play on both sides of the ball. How does that affect your, your thinking?
- [37:29]
Todd McShay
I love the Shohei Otani comparison.
- [37:31]
Mitch
Right.
- [37:32]
Todd McShay
And the reason I love it is because I think it shows the modern day athlete, modern day sports medicine. I think Quarterback a little bit though. He has. And, and so the quarterback staying healthy in the 40s that, well, the entire league is, is protecting them to a point where it's, it's beyond frustrating for a lot of people who love this game.
- [38:00]
Mitch
Right.
- [38:01]
Todd McShay
So I don't think you can factor that in. I hear what you're saying and I think it's fascinating.
- [38:06]
Mitch
Right.
- [38:06]
Todd McShay
But, but I'm also then as the general manager or is the owner talking to an overzealous general manager? I am going to go back and say I want to show me his injury history.
- [38:17]
Mitch
Yeah, the medical is going to be big the way it's going to be big.
- [38:22]
Todd McShay
And I don't even think he has. I don't think there's anything, I don't think there's anything in his medical history. You're worried about being something that's recurring. I mean, I know it's not, but I also miss high.
- [38:31]
Chris Felica
But.
- [38:31]
Todd McShay
Yeah, but I also know that when you've got a shoulder injury this year, like that's going to only be accentuated, heightened, if you will, at the next level. So. And here's my thought too, and I'm just, we're just free flowing here. I love this conversation because it's so unique. Right. Like one column, one University Colorado is providing us with two storylines that you almost never see in the NFL draft. I mean, I just, you go back, we're talking about Dion, we're talking about Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson over 20 years ago. Right. We're talking about Keyshawn Johnson is the number one overall overall pick, 1996. We're talking almost 30 years ago. Okay.
- [39:17]
Mitch
Right.
- [39:18]
Todd McShay
Then we're talking about Shador. I, we just said on the other podcast the other day we said it had been 20 years. Right. 2004 was the Eli Manning draft with Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers. Right. 20 years. So we're talking like decades for all of storylines and one and Colorado coming out of Boulder, Colorado, these unbelievably unique storylines. So I just, but my, my thought on this is I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going to throw it out to you. I feel like if you're going to play cornerback in the NFL, that's got to be your primary. And throwing you in at wide receiver with, with a, a handful of play installs every week in a, in a very specific defined role each week.
- [40:07]
Mitch
Right.
- [40:07]
Todd McShay
Is how you do it. I don't think you're a full time wide rece receiver and you come in for 15, 20 snaps a game at cornerback and do that. And maybe I'm wrong, but it'll be fascinating to see how these NFL teams that know a lot more than you and I have a lot more resources than you and I, how they view it. But to me, it's all right. If we're going to try to do both, we got to get cornerback right? Because if we don't get cornerback right, in terms of his technique, his polish, strengthening him up, bulking him up, and having him out there as the primary, like taking away the number one receiver every week. Yeah, we don't get that. That right. It's a freaking train wreck.
- [40:43]
Mitch
Right.
- [40:44]
Todd McShay
Two or three big plays a game could change an entire game at wide receiver. We can kind of pick our spots. So if you're going to try to play them in both, it's got to be cornerback, primary, wide receiver, secondary, and kind of increases role over time. Do you agree? Disagree?
- [41:01]
Mitch
I do agree. I think it's really hard to play corner part time. I mean. So it's what you're saying. I think it's really difficult to play corner part time on offense. You can have packages and you can have, you know, certain plays installed that you can. You can really focus in on 10, 12 plays a game that he can do defensively. I think it's a little bit of a different. More of a different animal. So, yeah, I do agree with you. I do hope that if. And we don't. I mean, tell me if you know something I don't know. We don't know that that's the route that they'll take. There's no reason to believe that's the route that they'll take. That they say that he needs to play both ways, but I hope there's not a GM out there who thinks that they're going to take Hunter and then try coach prime in that team and be like, no, actually we'll just complain about receiver now that we. We drafted them because that, I mean, the. All the, the drama for lack of reward or entertainment that's going to go on with all of this is just going to be. I mean, it is going to be fun to watch.
- [41:56]
Todd McShay
Let's just wrap it up here. Unlike last year's class, we just talked about three quarterbacks going very early. Unlike most year's class. I don't think that's going to be the case. I think Shador's. They're going to wind up picking their spot and it probably will be somewhere in the top five but we got a lot of time between now and then. Right. But when you look at it and we just talked about. No cornerback has ever gone number one overall.
- [42:18]
Mitch
Right.
- [42:18]
Todd McShay
Keyshawn Johnson in 96. What is that, 28 years since a wide receiver has gone number one overall? I do think the wide receiver positional value is higher than it's ever been in the NFL. So it wouldn't shock me. But when you start talking about the number one overall pick, and again, as of today, it would be the Jacksonville Jaguars. But any of these teams picking at the top and they may have a quarterback need, they may want Shador, but they may not be allowed to get him because he'll hold out if they draft him. So the potential to be the number one overall pick are. Who are you stacking them up against in this year's class? Throw in some names if you want, but I'm just looking at the board and I, we, we haven't even had these meetings yet or discussed this. And you're doing your own board. I do my own board.
- [43:00]
Mitch
Right.
- [43:01]
Todd McShay
And that's just the way things are right now. But Will Johnson at corner is. It would be up there among the names that potentially could be, you know, top three, four players in draft and the draft. Abdul Carter, Malik Williams, the edges, Penn State, Georgia, respectively. I think you would have to include up there in this year's class. Beyond that, like, I know Mason Graham. You absolutely love him.
- [43:24]
Mitch
He's not gonna go. I mean, that's, that's a whole nother argument.
- [43:27]
Todd McShay
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Kelvin Banks, some people think is great. I don't see a number one. You know what I mean? So like, I don't see a lot of Texas.
- [43:37]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [43:38]
Todd McShay
Then we're getting into guys like, like Malachi Starks. There's not gonna be a safety go. So like that's kind of it this year. There's a lot of depth in it, a lot of damn good football players in the 2025 draft. And I'm not just saying that to keep excitement going for the, like, I'll just, we'll shoot straight here. I don't, I don't mind. But when you talk about a typical top five class where you've got guys like fighting at the end, trying to get like climbing up 40 yard dash, who worked out best, who had like, you know, all those who had the best Senior Bowl, I don't see a group where you've got a bunch of guys that truly belong as the number one, number two overall pick. And if you were to compare him to other year's drafts, couldn't agree more. So the reason I'm saying this is he very well could be the number one overall pick. Travis Hunter very well could be the number one overall pick as a wide receiver or as a cornerback that can also contribute at wide receiver. And if that's the case, we're talking about making history at corner, which I think it's more likely to be wide receiver or it being 28 years since we've had a wide receiver taking number one overall. And for a class that doesn't have elite prospects at the top like we normally have, that's a pretty cool storyline.
- [44:50]
Mitch
That's amazing. And I don't want to. So I'll. Instead of putting. I always put you on the spot. I feel like I'm always like, well, would you take him first overall? I don't know if I would take him first overall. Right now we really do have to see how this plays out because the edge defenders, I think positional value, I think, you know, if. And again, we'll see how the rest of the season goes and how everyone tests. But you're right, there is a legit, I mean there is more of a chance for a corner to go or receiver, whatever you want to call them to go first overall than we've seen. And I don't even know how long.
- [45:22]
Todd McShay
Decades.
- [45:23]
Mitch
Yeah, it's amazing.
- [45:24]
Todd McShay
Let me wrap it up with this. And I looked at this up earlier in the year. I, I don't know that any corner has been paid and but Jalen Ramsey, when I looked this up earlier in the year, was the highest paid cornerback per year in the NFL. 24.1 million per year.
- [45:41]
Mitch
Right.
- [45:42]
Todd McShay
There are 12 wide receivers. There were 12 wide receivers at the time and I think it might be more now. 12 wide receivers at the time making more annually than Jalen Ramsey. So if you're talking about Prime, Coach prime, you're talking about business decisions, you're talking about advising and deciding where he's going to go, just like he's going to try to decide where Shadour goes, you got to believe the push from Travis Hunter's camp is he's a wide receiver, right? And if you want to use him a cornerback, that's fine. But he's getting picked. Now the rookie contract is a rookie contract. It's a five year deal as a first round pick. And if you're the number one overall pick, I haven't looked it up like the last. But it's around 38 million guaranteed. Yeah, but if they want him to get paid, you know, like, yeah, 30 plus million a year, whatever the numbers are after that first contract and negotiating it, you know, four years in, it's going to be at the wide receiver position.
- [46:41]
Mitch
Imagine if this was the old days and they didn't have the fixed contracts and what this would look like.
- [46:45]
Todd McShay
Oh gosh.
- [46:46]
Mitch
Oh man, that would be fun too.
- [46:49]
Todd McShay
Well, you know, they'd be pushing pay him as a corner and a wide receiver.
- [46:52]
Mitch
Yeah, right. Negotiating before the draft, trying to get the deal done. Yeah, I mean it's.
- [46:58]
Todd McShay
This is fun. This is. I mean, yeah. Colorado providing us with two of the best storylines we've seen in two decades in the NFL draft. And it's going to be fascinating to see how this all plays out.
- [47:09]
Mitch
This episode is brought to you by Vitamin Water Food, Entertainment Sports Teams.
- [47:15]
Todd McShay
New York City is one of those places that oozes choice.
- [47:18]
Mitch
It's got something for every taste.
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Todd McShay
So it's fitting the Vitamin Water was born there. It's a product of its environment. Colorful, flavorful, anything but boring.
- [47:28]
Mitch
Vitamin Water injects a daily dose of.
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Todd McShay
Vibrancy into a watered down life.
- [47:33]
Mitch
So grab some Vitamin Water today, NYC style.
- [47:36]
Todd McShay
Vitamin Water is a registered trademark of Glasso. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spending. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com campaign. Terms and conditions apply.
- [48:07]
Mitch
LinkedIn the Place to Be to Be.
- [48:10]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. Keep your college football season going with a win on FanDuel, because right now new customers can kick off the season with 150 bucks in bonus bets. Just place any $5 bet and you'll get 150 bucks in bonus bets. If you win, use your bets on spreads, live bets, overs, unders, and so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sports book. Must be 21 or older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only $5. First deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com mag I gotta tell you, just seeing this guy's face come up on our screen makes me smile. This is the Bear. Everyone knows him as the Bear. Chris Felica. How many years. I mean, we spent. So we never like were on the same team. Traveling on the same team. But with college game day, I was early in my career doing game day radio, just jumping in on the bus, watching games with you and Herbie and Fowler and the gang. The NFL draft, my favorite match, my favorite thing about Bears. We'd be in the weeds. You know, I become a lunatic. I'm pretty chill most of the year, but I've become a lunatic. Draft weekend and you know, like, and so every once in a while it'd be up there like this. It's the fifth pick coming up and like something would pop in my head and, and Bears over there and he's doing. Providing unbelievable stats. Things that you don't. Wouldn't even think about. I'd be like, bear. And maybe like commercial break. Get out. They take that headset, go over and be like, bear, what if any. And he, my man would have liked like, you know, I don't know, name me a horse or racetrack.
- [50:08]
Chris Felica
You know, usually that weekend was, you know, it changed to like derby weekend, like with the following week after the draft.
- [50:17]
Todd McShay
Correct.
- [50:18]
Chris Felica
It was, it was typically like the cle. The closing weekend at Keeneland or the opening.
- [50:23]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I remember being Keenly and being like, bear, man, like, you're watching Keeneland right now. And we got, we're on the seventh pick. One second and give me a note. That would be, you know, that would carry. Carry the whole segment.
- [50:38]
Chris Felica
So there was one year, Todd, that the year that the draft was in Cleveland, maybe an awful weather that was going on. Like Kirk and myself and Darren, like we flew from the draft right into, into the derby and went right to Oaks Day the following day. It was great.
- [50:53]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's just grinding on those private planes going to, going to the horse race. I do remember spending time with you at the derby one year too. So we've, we have a long history. We appreciate you joining. Bud. I love what you're doing. I mean you were an absolute staple behind the scenes and then, and then in front of the camera for a long time on college game day. You've transitioned. We had the wonderful thing men like the vast majority of our, of our relationship has been work and talking ball and, but also like when, when I was trying to figure out the next steps after espn, you kind of know who the people you trust and rely on when you make the phone call to them. Like, where are we? You know, what's going on? What do you think I should do? And when. And when the, the calls reciproc reciprocated and you're on the phone for a half hour, 40 minutes just talking about life and career and family. Bear's one of those guys, a very small group and I've appreciated you Bear, throughout, throughout all of this.
- [51:50]
Chris Felica
That's, that's what friends are for. It's, it's interesting you say that because I mean not that we were kind of in a similar situation. Like when you leave ESPN you kind of find out like who your like yeah, friends are and it's been, it's good, it's been great to maintain a lot of relationships that I, that I have really maintained. And it's been somewhat, I mean, I want to say, I mean they're not that there have been a ton of people that have completely fallen off the, the face of the earth, but you know, the difference. It's good, it's good to see that the, the relationships and the friends that you thought were real and genuine and not just work related have continued to be that. So yeah, it's, it's, it's certainly eye.
- [52:25]
Todd McShay
Opening and I benefited more from. It was more of a take relationship from you over the years with, given your role and making me look good. But I'll be honest, the last few years I've given back a little bit with those NFL drafts.
- [52:37]
Chris Felica
Certainly have.
- [52:40]
Todd McShay
Appreciate that.
- [52:42]
Chris Felica
It was a very, very good April this year.
- [52:45]
Todd McShay
Good, good. But I could help with that with that. The travel, the travel budget. All right, so let's dive into this. Man, you're heading to Columbus this week. You know, an awesome, awesome matchup and really intriguing matchup. Let's start with that game. We got a lot to get into in the rankings. I want to talk about some, some early positions for College Football Playoff and some lines that jump out and several different things. But this week specifically we've got an Indiana team that's not only winning every week but like handling teams. But I look at them from an NFL draft perspective and the difference between Ohio State when we're talking about like 20 something guys, you've got to evaluate and potentially like eight, nine guys in the top 100 versus Indiana that just, they don't have that and not even close. I'm curious, like what are your thoughts and takes this week? Just specifically in the game, we'll get into rankings, but what are your thoughts and takes kind of entering this game this week going to Columbus, I think.
- [53:43]
Chris Felica
The first thing noticing that Indiana coming off of the idle week look, they are extremely well coached and Sig has a long track record of success where he's been before. So I would expect Indiana to come out and be prepared and play well and probably hang around early on. I would think they'll have a decent game plan. But ultimately I just, I wondered, like you said long term and Ryan Rossello even hit on this on his show earlier in the week. Like kind of the teams that have the better players are shockingly the better teams and that's kind of where I am. A couple of weeks back I might have been concerned about about this game for Ohio State, but the Indiana Michigan game was a little eye opening for me because that was the most NFL ish type team that Indiana was going to play defensively and they had trouble moving the ball all day long and won a very close game and good, they won the game. But that, oh, I think had drew a lot of concerns for me about Indiana and their ability to what are they going to do against downs and that Ohio State secondary, right, that's now healthy. And then on the flip side, I was concerned about Ohio State going to Penn State about wow, is their offensive line going to fare there. They're moving people all over and they played great against Penn State and I think Ryan Day and Chip feel a hell of a lot better about that unit right now being that they answered the test at Penn State and they came away with the experience in a very tough environment. I ultimately think Ohio State does pull away and win this game convincingly and that's going to ultimately be the decision for the College Football Playoff committee moving forward. Like, what does, what type of loss does Indiana need? Like yeah. To go there last month and nearly won the game. Like, are they going to be measured against that? So I would expect Indiana to come out and play and play well early and then ultimately the depth and just the quality of Ohio State will ultimately win out.
- [55:40]
Mitch
What do you think the number is? I mean if Indiana loses by 10, are they all right? If they lose by 14, does it get sketchy?
- [55:47]
Chris Felica
Exactly. That's like the number I think right now is 10 and a half or 11. So like a cover, I think that that's the expectation that they're going to go 10 or 11 points away. I think that would be fine. Like, I think if it's anything less than like a 2, like I think if they lose by 17 or something like that, or maybe like 30, 42, 24, something like that, I think that ultimately will be viewed as a, as a good, a good result for them. And look, I, I, I hate it because it, it's like this, like you're kind of choosing one way or another. Like you're either like pro Indiana or completely anti Indian, right? Not that like, no. You know, in college football, all one loss records are not created equal. How do you judge a team that's brawl through the 106th ranked schedule in the country? Compare that to a Georgia team that's played the toughest schedule in the country and they're 18 too. So that's what we're up against in college football. And look, we're not knocking Indiana because we think they're terrible. It's just you're probably not as good as that.
- [56:50]
Todd McShay
10 and O mark says it was interesting. I asked our folks at FanDuel, right, to give us hypothetical neutral field odds. I know you do a lot of this and we all study this, but against all the SEC teams because let's face like there, there's, there's Texas and then there's kind of a clump, right? And it'll be interesting to see on, on tonight's College Football Playoff reveal what the committee has decided in terms of where those SEC teams are ranked. But you got to imagine they're going to be clumped pretty close together, right? And so I, I asked the folks at FanDuel and they said, they said Indiana would be dogs at all of these top teams, right. Except Texas A and M and South Carolina. So against Texas it would be Texas minus seven and a half, Alabama minus six and a half, Georgia minus eight and a half. We'll get to Georgia in a minute. Tennessee minus two and a half, Ole Miss minus six and a half. So it's interesting to see all of those are six and above except Tennessee which would only be two and a half. So with that as kind of the backdrop, Bear if they lose a game by 7, 10, 7, 10 points, hang around, look, look respectable in it. But like clearly Ohio State's a better team. And then you look at, and I know the committee isn't looking at, you know, the odds for these, but I think we all agree that these SEC teams with two losses, they're just better.
- [58:19]
Chris Felica
Yes. And what you would say when you just prior to that like how are these SEC teams going to be clumped together? The fact that the folks at FanDuel and I think a lot of people probably do still have Georgia power rated the highest of all these SEC teams. You're probably going to see like despite the fact that Alabama and Ole Miss beat Georgia, I think you'll probably see Georgia the highest ranked of those of that cluster of teams as well.
- [58:47]
Todd McShay
You had an interesting tweet yesterday. I didn't want to cut you off, but you can build on this. Georgia has three wins versus the current AP top 20. Texas, Tennessee and Clemson. Then you go on to say the current AP top five has a com has combined for three wins. You know, alluding to against top AP top 20 teams with Oregon accounting for two of those.
- [59:10]
Chris Felica
Yeah. And that's the amazing thing. Like I've even brought up like people like, like what is Texas done to kind of command this high ranking? Like we think Texas is really good. You watch them and you think they're really good but skate like their best win like Vandy record wise. Like they're getting I think so much bump off of a win over a Michigan team that wound up not being very good early in the year. So like I wonder and I even saw on fanduel the other day that there was a yes no playoff market on Texas. Like the no was plus 680. And I took a little bit of that because what happens if Texas goes to A and M took a little and they lose and you have a certain chain, chain reaction of events where certainly Texas A and M will now go ahead of Texas. Georgia obviously is going ahead of Texas and Texas doesn't have a win to really hang their hat on. Look, do I think ultimately it will happen? No. But I don't want to take a a swipe at our former employer, Todd. But like they have this like playoff mathematical predictor and they have like Indiana at like 94% and Texas at like 97. I'm like I love a yes no playoff market on on they grab grab this little swipe of the no with those numbers.
- [60:29]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Always looking for, I love it for an edge. I just, I think it's fascinating with with Georgia. Let's go back to Texas real quick. The resume is one thing and mention I have been talking about this for, for a couple weeks now. Their defense is elite. Like I'll put them up there. Ole Miss's defensive line is probably the best in the country. Tennessee's defensive front is, is the deepest in the country. Like there are a handful of elite defenses in the country. Texas is right up there. Okay, so. But with that as the backdrop, this offense is struggling. For Texas, it's not just about strength of record, strength of schedule, who they played like. I'm seeing an offense that is not what we expected it to be and we, we kind of gave him a little bit of a pass because Quinn yours was coming off the, the injury and he's working back. But then the bye week and they look, they had big numbers against Florida but if you look at it, I haven't seen this like Sark, Quinn Ewers high powered offense and so on tape I'm seeing a team that's concerning as well.
- [61:38]
Chris Felica
Is it more like, I know early, early in you're obviously losing all of those running backs may have had some type of an effect on this, but is it more offensive line play, the receiving like we thought the receiving core was going to be great. And certainly I don't think they've been as dominant and as explosive as, as we thought. Right?
- [61:55]
Todd McShay
No, right. They haven't. And I, I also, I just wonder, I wonder how much Sark has kind of held back and just kind of grinded through some games and is waiting to kind of unleash things against opponents where they need it. But at this point you'd expect to see more I guess is my point.
- [62:11]
Chris Felica
And I think too young. I'm glad you hit on the defense because that was certainly a problem last year where they were getting up a bunch of big pass plays. We saw that in the semifinal last year against, against Washington where panics and those receivers just, just ripped them apart. But you, you hit on I think the most important thing while we have all these resumes and strength of record and strength of schedule. Ultimately it does come down to in my opinion like just who, who are the best teams. Who is a bit team A, team B, they play. Who is that? Look at their schedule, look at their efficiency metrics, look at their NBA for play. All these, all these indicators of team strength and that ultimately I think at the end of the day and on December 5th or whatever the day is like you think 11 and 1 Indiana is one of the best 12 teams in the country and they're better than 10 and 2 Tennessee or they're better than 10 and 2am or whoever, fine, put them in. But, but just, just don't always look at that record and think that ultimately is going to be the best indicator of what team is better.
- [63:15]
Mitch
Well, it's like Florida State last year. I Mean, they, they got, they ultimately, I mean, it's devastating what happened to those players. And you feel for those players, it's ultimately the correct call that they are not the same team without Travis Jordan at quarterback. They got the, they got the better teams in. So it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds though.
- [63:33]
Chris Felica
Yeah, and that was, that was the important thing last year with Florida State. And what happened was because the committee really had never used those bylaws and rules that they had in there about being able to. Things will be affected or injuries, head to head results cluster like they never really were in a position to have to use that. And you kind of saw it coming when that happened because you, you're like, okay, Alabama had that loss to Texas, but now what happens if Alabama wins the sec? If you take, if you take Alabama, who wins the sec? You got to take Texas because Texas beat him. And it really. Look, it was unfortunate, but I think in the end the committee did do the right thing because you not only look at what Florida State was last year without Jordan Travis in that ACC championship game, kind of what Mike Norvell has become at Florida State, like his record at Florida State in the last couple of years without Jordan, Travis's starting quarterback, is pretty alarming.
- [64:30]
Mitch
Right.
- [64:30]
Todd McShay
We've got a problem brewing though. If Indiana plays close enough game and, and you can't knock them out of the top 12. Like if there's four teams, I'm not a math major, but if there's four teams from the Big Ten, it's spinning. If there's, there's, there has to be a, an ACC champion.
- [64:48]
Chris Felica
Yep.
- [64:49]
Todd McShay
Right. There's got to be a, a Big 12 champion. Notre Dame currently sitting in there if they take care of business. Right.
- [64:57]
Chris Felica
Everyone's rooting for SC in a couple.
- [64:58]
Todd McShay
Of weeks and so, and then, and then you've got the, the non, you know, Power 4 conference champion, the highest rated, you know, from the other conferences in which currently is Boise State with. That's the, if that's the case, I'm looking. If Texas beats Texas A and M, you're looking at a situation. Tell me who you're keeping out to put Indiana in as I guess, I guess where I'm going with all this. Who are you peeping out to put Indian in from Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Ole Miss, when all of them, you can say, well, well, we beat them, they're in. We beat that. You know, like they all have a win over one another. Who do you keep out?
- [65:36]
Chris Felica
It's probably Going to, it's probably going to come down to a battle between Tennessee and Indiana and whether that's right. Look, and how, how about this? Like what if Alabama winds up winning the SEC and like Tennessee beat them and Tennessee would be the odd team now because Indiana is 11 and one in the, in the committee wouldn't want to drop them completely out. That, that, that would be a, that would be a bad situation. Oh, wait a minute. And the commit. Look, the committee should not be penalizing teams that get to a conference championship game and lose. Like yeah, if Texas loses to Texas, that's a different story. If Texas is 11 and 1 and in the SEC championship game and loses, that should not really. I mean they're cash grabs, they're kind of exhibitions. You get a conference title, congratulations. But you should not be penalized.
- [66:28]
Todd McShay
It should be a seating opportunity, not, not something to kick you out. Right.
- [66:33]
Chris Felica
So like, like that ultimately and I think this is part of the reason why Tennessee fans were so upset at me last week for, for saying that Nico had a concussion and my guy was saying he didn't know if he was going to be playing. Like I think they kind of saw it coming last week. Like, oh shoot, we're a double digit favorite on the road at Georgia. Georgia is going to be amped up to play their first home game in a month. It's a must win. We're going to lose. We're going to be 10 and 2. We're going to be left out. It was like the defeatist nature was coming out and unfortunately it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy because I think ultimately that's kind of the situation that we can see coming. But hey, who the hell knows what's ultimately going to want to happen. Florida is playing much better right now. With lag away a quarterback and give Billy Napier cross credit, they could maybe beat Ole Miss this week. What happens if Alabama goes on the road and. And they run up against Venable's defense and the same thing happens with like what happened with Alabama against South Carolina and they struggled to move the ball. Like something crazy is gonna happen.
- [67:30]
Todd McShay
I call it the Thanksgiving effect. Like every year we have the answers right now, like the very clear picture. And then I'm like on a plane going from visiting my mom in Ohio and family and, and like, and I'm getting ready to get on a plane and I'm looking at a sports bar as I'm walking by to go to go to the terminal and it's like, wait, what? Ole miss is down 14 what you know, like this time of year gets wild. So the conversations we're having now are probably not going to be, you know, identical or maybe even close to the conversations we're going to be having in a couple weeks. That's why we love this sport. But it's also, I think tonight's. The committee is going to have to kind of plant a flag tonight and that like where do you, where are you putting these SEC teams? How you know, right? Is it above or any of them above Indiana or Penn State? Like give me. Am I. I know all of this is on Indiana, but like what has.
- [68:25]
Chris Felica
Penn State done played Ohio State to what we expect them to do every year under James Franklin against the top.
- [68:34]
Todd McShay
He could have lost that game by 21, by the way.
- [68:36]
Chris Felica
Yes. Their offense didn't score touchdown. Like you go going in the fumble going. It was. Yeah, that was said to be like game right there if Howard doesn't fumble the ball up. But I think like they beat USC in overtime in a game they probably, well shut one thing should have lost but easily could have lost. They. They uglied up a game against Illinois on their home field and in one, like the fact that Illinois is ranked now. I guess maybe that has something. But I look at Penn State and I'm like, it's funny because people talk. Someone asked me the other day like what we. What are you most looking forward to in the playoff? And, and with the prefaces of like, You've always been a 4A proponent of the 14 playoff but now with the expansion, what are you looking forward to the most? And I said I would love to see these SEC teams, whether it's Ole Miss, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, whomever go north and play Penn State or Indiana or whom Ohio State in a cold weather type game. I would love to see the opportunity for like Ole Miss to go to Penn State and play a first round playoff game. Remember, remember that bowl game last year that wasn't too pretty. Yeah, like I, I don't again, Penn State and people. That's the first response I get from people when I bring up the 106th rank schedule from Indiana. What is Indiana done? Haven't played a team that's getting a point in the poll. Like people are always like what, what about Texas? What about Penn State? I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the group I'm clumping together there. When I say like the rest of the top five, like has no wins or three wins against the top 20 like in Texas and Penn State don't, don't really have any either, so. Yeah, but Penn State is one like they, they are the poster child for hollow calories. We know what they are. I love that I can say. But yeah, it's like we know what they are. Every year they're gonna go out and they're gonna, they're gonna beat all these teams and I, I, it's funny, I'm really curious to get the, the vibe there in State College. Like if they go 11 and one and they're one and done in the playoff again, like I would think they'd be disappointed. That being said, they need to be careful this week on the road. I think in Minnesota. That's a, that's a tricky game this.
- [70:48]
Todd McShay
Week against six and four now. Right?
- [70:51]
Chris Felica
That's good. They've gotten better as the year has gone on, so I wouldn't just write that off as an easy win for, for Penn State laying close to two touchdowns. I think on the road.
- [71:01]
Todd McShay
I'd respect the hell out of the committee. If they came out tonight and it was Oregon 1, Ohio State 2, and then you go Texas Bama, Georgia, Tennessee, Ole Miss in some order and then had Penn State in Indiana or Indiana, Penn State after that, I would respect the hell out of them. But I don't, I don't at all expect that to be the case.
- [71:20]
Chris Felica
You know what's so funny? Someone, Someone that asked me yesterday, like what, what I would have as a top 10 like, like if I. It's someone that you know and who we used to work with a couple of these people who are involved in the old, the old game day chain. They were like, just humorous with your top 10 teams in the country. And here's what I, here's the order I went, okay. I went Ohio State, Oregon. Yes, Tech, Ohio State, Oregon, Georgia, Ole Miss, Alabama, Texas, Tennessee, Indiana, Penn State, Notre Dame. That's how I, that's how I went.
- [72:02]
Todd McShay
Ohio State over Oregon, huh?
- [72:04]
Chris Felica
Yeah.
- [72:05]
Mitch
I'm on board, man.
- [72:07]
Chris Felica
I mean, thank you. I mean, I mean, yeah, it was by a point on their home field field in a mad right. It doesn't. They're gonna play again in two weeks. So ultimately it doesn't matter if you're power rating these teams. I still think you're power rating Ohio State is the best team in the country.
- [72:23]
Todd McShay
I don't hate it, man. Like I, I'm with you. Like Oregon, OSU 1 or 2, but after that, Georgia, Mississippi, Ole Miss, Alabama, Texas. I can see that. Tennessee, Penn State, Indiana, Penn State, Indiana, Notre Dame, Is that right?
- [72:39]
Chris Felica
Indiana. Indiana, Penn State. Just because. Hey, at least it's not like Penn State like just talking. Not like Penn State's beating anybody yet either.
- [72:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I'm. Yeah.
- [72:48]
Mitch
You're not buying Notre Dame, huh? I. I don't know what to do with them. I don't. That's what I'm saying either.
- [72:55]
Chris Felica
It's like they, they're running, they're scoring points now against all these teams and they're gonna blow out in the Army. I would think again, this.
- [73:02]
Mitch
Right.
- [73:03]
Chris Felica
It's like I can't. For what again? It's. This is a bad. My wife and her family are probably gonna hate me now forever because they're a Notre Dame family and we'll get over it. I can't get that Northern Illinois game out of my mind despite the fact that they're scoring 50 something points against everybody now.
- [73:19]
Todd McShay
Yeah, this is what.
- [73:21]
Mitch
I know it's not a top 10 team, but you got any thoughts on that BYU Arizona State game?
- [73:28]
Chris Felica
I like Arizona State. Kenny Gillingham has done this year. I mean they got through some games without Scattaboo, which I think was amazing. It's so funny because I think back to the beginning of the year and like one of the biggest narratives and win total plays that I heard was Arizona State under. Arizona State under in conference play. I picked where they were and they have been great. Levins played great at quarterback. As I said, Scattaboo has been someone that a lot of people nationally are just finding out they have not had the best Big 12 schedule. They fortunately played a bunch of the bottom teams as well. But hey, they are there. They control their dead. They beat BYU this week and they're probably going to wind up in the big in the Big 12 championship game, hopefully against Colorado. I thought you were going to ask me about the group of five teams because that's another hot and button topic that I've taken some incoming on. Like I think Tulane is. I mean with you and Mensa, the young quarterback who pro. Look, I don't want to say probably won't be there, but I know he will probably be a very large transfer portal nil target prospect target for a lot of people next year. But some world's defense is really, really good. They are a wagon. They are beating the hell out of people. They're off before they play Memphis. We know they're going to be in that AC championship game against Army. I think they're better than Boise. I know a lot of people don't.
- [74:54]
Todd McShay
Feel that way What's Boise got left on the.
- [74:57]
Chris Felica
Boise got what Oregon State left on one of their games and then they had what's. They have one other conference game before, before Oregon State. They got. Yeah.
- [75:09]
Todd McShay
Wyoming.
- [75:09]
Chris Felica
Wyoming this week, Oregon State. And then who knows? Everyone thought it was going to be you want a rematch with UNLV in, in the Mountain west championship game. But Colorado State's undefeated. They're an underdog at Fresno. And then I think they have Utah State maybe in that final game. I can't remember who exactly it was, but it was.
- [75:28]
Mitch
That's right. Yeah. They. Yep.
- [75:29]
Todd McShay
Like they're selfishly. I want to see Ashton Ginty against like Ohio State, you know.
- [75:34]
Chris Felica
Yes.
- [75:36]
Todd McShay
Oregon or whoever it turns out to be.
- [75:38]
Chris Felica
And I think we all do. And again, that's another. And another thing with, with the sport. It's like, how do you compare what Gentee has done as a running back? I mean he had the great game against Oregon. Absolutely. But like the week in, week out, like you're, you're playing some of these defenses and some of these teams as opposed to what a Travis Hunter is doing on a weekend where what Cam Ward is doing, you have to carry that offense, that team on a week in, week out basis. In terms of the Heisman Trophy. Like Jenky's going to be in New York because I think he's going to be listed on a bunch of these ballots. But I think ultimately I think we're looking at a situation where Colorado gets the Big 12 championship game, he wins. I think there's still like a legacy award situation for Dylan Gabriel. If Oregon winds up winning the. The Big Ten and they go undefeated, I think Gabriel could get some votes of Hunter doesn't get there. And I think the other guy still to potentially keep an eye on is Jalen Miller. I think if they beat, yeah. Auburn, they beat Oklahoma, they win the sec. Colorado loses a game here, Oregon loses a game here. You're looking quarterback of the SEC champion. So like, I think we're probably down to one of those three guys in terms of the Heisman.
- [76:49]
Todd McShay
Our friends.
- [76:51]
Mitch
Tough to imagine where Alabama would be without Milro. I mean he is that office.
- [76:55]
Todd McShay
I mean. Yeah.
- [76:56]
Mitch
So yeah.
- [76:57]
Todd McShay
Our friends at FanDuel right now, it's. It's Travis Hunter minus 330. Wow. And Jinty is plus 340. He's lost some steam recently, let's just be honest. And nothing, nothing necessarily with what he's done. 159 this past week. But I think those huge numbers early on the Oregon game Like it really propped him up. But you can see it starting to fade and then you're ready for this bear. The next highest is cam ward at plus 1400. So if you think I'm a.
- [77:28]
Chris Felica
You're.
- [77:29]
Todd McShay
You're the one who makes all the money on this stuff. You ready? Milrose? Plus 3, 500. Maybe get a little 30.
- [77:36]
Chris Felica
See in the state of Connecticut, I can't bet these Heisman markets. I have to.
- [77:41]
Todd McShay
What about, what about when you're in Ohio this week?
- [77:43]
Chris Felica
When I'm in Ohio this weekend or I'm layover in Detroit. That's. Maybe I drive.
- [77:50]
Todd McShay
Maybe I love this guy.
- [77:52]
Chris Felica
Maybe I make the drive up north on 91 and head across the, the Massachusetts border and sit in a. Off the side of the road for a little while.
- [77:59]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I'll get you a restaurant recommendation. And by the way, like for those listeners who think he's joking, like, like, don't put anything past my man, all right? We can't let you go without trying to win a little bit of money here, right? What? I don't.
- [78:19]
Chris Felica
And I'm.
- [78:20]
Todd McShay
Pardon my ignorance here, but right now are there like some early positions on the College Football Playoff? Like what, what can you play right now? Is there anything you're interested in in terms of like national championship or how does it work?
- [78:31]
Chris Felica
I haven't seen any. I mean, I mean the make miss stuff I think is pretty much out there. And the prices right now I think are a little, a little too ridiculous. And like I said, unfortunately I can't pull them up right now. Yeah, the geolocating won't allow me to do that. I would, I don't, I like, I don't know what the. Like I took a stab the other day when I was out of state at Indiana. No. A Texas. No. Just in case something ridiculous happens, I would bet Alabama maybe to win the SEC championship at plus money because I think if they were to get to the game, if they, if they beat Auburn, they beat Oklahoma, I think that will be a close to a pick em game in the SEC championship against Texas. And you probably might be able to be in a position where you could get off of that a little bit and guarantee a profit. I would, I would bet Tulane if there's a moneyline price or an odds to win the conference title against Army. I think Tulane is a really good play.
- [79:35]
Todd McShay
What about, what about this week? Any lines? I know it's early, you got the injury reports and talking to people, but any lines jump out this week? Obviously. Ohio State, Indiana is the biggest game you'll be there for that with Big Noon kickoff. We're excited to see that. But any other games stand out to you at this early point?
- [79:53]
Chris Felica
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take Kansas plus the two and a half against Colorado just because we've seen the way this Kansas team the offense a couple weeks back against Iowa State. The defense last week against BYU played great. Jalen Daniels has played so much better over the last month of the season than he did early on and again it was just a matter of time. We're talking about it last week with Joe Cloud like they were owing five in games decided by one by a touchdown. Os and ultimately finally won one last week BYU would have been 4 0. I, I worry about that Colorado offensive line seeing them in person. I mean they, they're better than what they were last year. But. But they still are not a great unit at all. And if Shadir has to run around and, and it isn't able to make some plays and throw some balls up to a wide receiver core that might not have a Jimmy Horn Jr. Back as well, that could be a problem. How cool is it by the way? You're going to get. You have the Heisman favorite and potential Heisman winner now now playing on the NFL Stadium at Arrowhead where you got Patrick Holmes and Patrick Mahomes in the two time.
- [80:58]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [80:59]
Chris Felica
Super bowl chat. That's a pretty cool. So cool subplot.
- [81:03]
Todd McShay
I hadn't even thought about that to be honest.
- [81:05]
Mitch
Yeah, me neither.
- [81:05]
Todd McShay
Great point.
- [81:07]
Chris Felica
And, and I'm gonna play Arizona state minus the three against BYU. I think ASU is for real and I think BYU's bubble burst last week.
- [81:16]
Mitch
Right.
- [81:17]
Chris Felica
I'm thumbing through some others.
- [81:18]
Todd McShay
I'll give you a minute to look. I, I don't think any. I've ever mentioned this on the show before but I'm kind of on a hot streak right now, man. Two weeks in a row I won. I've won our.
- [81:28]
Mitch
Won't shut up about it.
- [81:29]
Chris Felica
Nice.
- [81:30]
Todd McShay
I've won the college football pool. The last.
- [81:31]
Mitch
You won't stop talking.
- [81:33]
Todd McShay
But, but the last two weeks, man, the last two weeks we. So we do a live show here and everyone please come and join us after the prime time game. We're live on YouTube. We started kind of mid season so just kind of catching our, catching our steam there. But we tape till like one in the morning. Right. And so we have these. The pool and there's always the late night game. There's always the late night game out of seven games we pick so I'm done here. 1:00am I kind of just stumbled downstairs I'm like done for the day long day and the last two weeks what like what a joy I've been against BYU the last two weeks and it's been like remember two weeks ago it was, it was Utah, they wound up winning that game but, but Utah covered but it was, it was the sack with the holding call at the goal line and they drive down and they kick a field goal. They win. But I win too, right? And then this past week the most obvious outside of Georgia which I pounded same game parlay Georgia in the under mention was one of those suckers taking Tennessee in the points. But the other game that I loved was not a gambler. It's the Corso thing man. And I go back to he was, he's brilliant and he was way ahead of his time. Like somebody knows something. I'm going with the somebody's. How is this team with a losing record In Kansas only 2 1/2 point dogs against an undefeated BYU team. And guess what some somebody's wonderful.
- [82:58]
Chris Felica
Somebody's knew something. Yeah I went back and and looked and I even tweeted it out last week like with the database that I have like since 1978 there were 66 games where you had a team nine and over better against a team with a losing record. Every single one of them those 66 was a double digit favorite. And then you had BYU who was two and a half against the three and six makers knew. They, they know the power ratings. They know the differential in close games. They're not looking, they're not looking at the overall one loss record. They're looking at their power ratings. So they knew. Two SEC home dogs for you. By the way I'm going to take Oklahoma.
- [83:38]
Todd McShay
Get your pen and paper out people. If you're watching or listening like this is cold right here. Go ahead.
- [83:43]
Chris Felica
I'm going to take Oklahoma against Alabama. 14 point home dog. I mean Oklahoma is down hard but.
- [83:50]
Todd McShay
Last time we doesn't seem high enough right? No, it seems like if I would guess I would have said like 20.
- [83:55]
Chris Felica
Everyone's down on OU. They need one more win in their final two games to to get bowl eligible. They got Bama at home. They go to lsu. They blew that game against Missouri last time they set foot on the field. People talking about Venables, is he going to be back? The defense I think is still pretty good.
- [84:13]
Todd McShay
This would be just like Venables to make it fork. I Could see that.
- [84:18]
Chris Felica
Exactly. I mean the Ole Miss game with the Ole Miss game was close too. In. In Oxford for 2614. So I mean they. They covered a big number there. And then I'm. I hate myself for this because I don't think Auburn is very good at all. But I'm gonna take Auburn get getting points at home against A M. I wonder about the A M running back injury was a massive loss for them.
- [84:43]
Mitch
Huge.
- [84:44]
Chris Felica
I the. I think the Aggies defensive line is good. But again same thing you got people pointing out. You freeze his SEC record.
- [84:51]
Todd McShay
What's the number in that game again?
- [84:52]
Chris Felica
Two and a half a M minus two and a half.
- [84:55]
Todd McShay
That's it.
- [84:56]
Chris Felica
Number 15 team. Yeah.
- [84:58]
Todd McShay
When it stinks, it's right.
- [85:00]
Chris Felica
Right. And again this is night game.
- [85:03]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [85:04]
Chris Felica
Night game. Offense got right in a sense against bad. You all. Monroe lost a bunch of close SEC game. I. The line stinks. So yeah, give me a. Give me ou and give me. And give me Auburn plus the points.
- [85:18]
Todd McShay
All right. I mean if you're out there watching or listening and we. We took a cards. We took a hard swipe at FanDuel. I mean we're not trying to put them completely out of business because we need them to write checks for this show, but like, you know, let's make it a fair fight here. Oklahoma plus 14. Auburn plus two and a half and Kansas plus two and a half. I hope you're wrong on camp. I think you like. I get your reasoning. I'm with you. So it's probably right. But how badly Just like no one's rooting for anyone here. Disclaimer all that but like how much fun would it be that the Big 12 representative is Shador Travis Coach Prime Colorado, the run they've been on. Right.
- [85:59]
Chris Felica
And I, I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to take a swipe if fanduel either. But I, I took a swipe at him early year Travis Hunter at 60 to 1 to win the Heisman. So I got that little digital stamp in the phone right now. So.
- [86:13]
Todd McShay
Wow. Oh, I hope they. I hope they wrote the check for the. To sponsor this show.
- [86:18]
Chris Felica
Men. Here here's here. Here's one of the. The stories. Like, you don't believe that. You don't believe him. He's dead serious. So I was. Todd was talking about. I was out in LA working the summer of soccer for FOX with the Euros and the. And Copa America. I was out there for five, five and a half weeks and out in California, you Can't play. But prior to leaving, I had got a great deposit bonus offer from Fan. I sound like I'm promoting FanDuel here.
- [86:45]
Todd McShay
Which I kind of gave me a grunt with it.
- [86:48]
Chris Felica
They gave me a great deposit bonus offer. So I'm like, you know, I can make. Go make this deposit off. And like I'm so literally. I flew 9am from LAX, our flight, LAX, Phoenix. Got out off the plane in Phoenix. Literally walked 30 steps from the gate in Phoenix to the Delta Sky Club. Sat in the Delta Sky Club for six hours or so. I think the flight was getting back to LA was like a 3 o'clock flight. So literally six hour session in the Sky Club watching whatever it was and making bets in there. I was. That was a time where I bet Hunter 60 to 1. I made a bunch of crossboard parlays that wound up hitting capital. I basically was finishing up with Xander Schoffley to win the open championship and that hit. So got some. Had some good stuff there. I had a couple of more that.
- [87:44]
Mitch
I made worth it. Huh?
- [87:45]
Chris Felica
It was well worth it. Now, now I, now, now I'm sitting on not all the Hunter ticket, but I'm also sitting on some, some cross sports that are live to Ohio State and Georgia winning the national championship along with Ravens, Chiefs, Eagles, Bills, Niners to win the, to win the Super Bowl. I'm Nate. I am naked on the Lions, so.
- [88:12]
Mitch
Oh really?
- [88:13]
Chris Felica
That worries me. I kind of felt like everything when I went right for the Lions last year. And I'm not one of those guys that likes to bet the trendy team or so. So I am naked on the line. So I'm gonna be in a situation here where if the, the Bucks or Bulldogs wind up winning the college football championship, I'm gonna be scrambling if the Lions get to the super bowl to be able to.
- [88:35]
Mitch
So everyone in America wants the Lions to win the Super Bowl. Who's not like a hardcore fan except.
- [88:40]
Chris Felica
You correct someone you know, if I'm dead, if, if Oregon or Alabama or whomever.
- [88:49]
Mitch
Right. It's over.
- [88:49]
Chris Felica
International champ. But yeah, if we're, if we're sitting there like, like Lions versus Bills. And how awesome would that be by the way? If we get l in the super bowl, like I. I will be all in on Josh Allen.
- [89:02]
Todd McShay
Yeah, man. I've worked with his wonderful Back to la, his wonderful wife. To say that he's married to a saint is the understatement of the year.
- [89:13]
Chris Felica
Yes. She's so funny. Because I, I remember this. I remember that the Eagles Chief Super Bowl a couple years ago. And like, she can get a sense, like, she will always ask me before a big game, like, who are we rooting for? Like, and sometimes I, I'll say, yeah, no one. And like, in, in that instance, I was like rooting for the Chiefs. Oh, like, like what? Like, how much are we rooting for the chief? Like, you know, the European vacation we want.
- [89:49]
Todd McShay
I was just gonna say, how does this affect vacation?
- [89:52]
Chris Felica
So that's what you need to do, Todd. You need to put it in like that, present it that way. Yeah. You want those new custom drapes for the living room. There you go. Well, you want. There you go. It has to be tangible stuff.
- [90:06]
Todd McShay
It's an incentivizing program that we're on. You know, Exactly. I love this man. You know how much I respect you, how much I appreciate you for, for everything over the years. We'll continue to bother you and have you come on this show of absolute friend of the show, the Bear. Check them out. You know, you know where to find them. But Bear bets on Spotify. The big noon kick coming up. Huge game this weekend with Indiana at Ohio State. And on Twitter it's at Chris Fica F A L L I C A at Chrisfelik. You got to check his notes every week. I love matches. Like, and I sent out a tweet earlier in the year. Like, if you're not reading this and you're a college football fan or a gambler, like, what are you doing? Like the notes, like the note he just gave with like, you know, whatever it was 60 something double digit or 60 something teams that are 9 and 0 or better like every week. There's nuggets on every top game. It's something like makes you think and puts it in perspective. So check him out on, on X as well.
- [91:03]
Chris Felica
So I got a good one about Houston this week. Potentially being shut out twice and get into a ballgame.
- [91:08]
Todd McShay
Close us out with it.
- [91:10]
Chris Felica
Well, no, you'll have to, have to wait until.
- [91:11]
Todd McShay
Oh good. He's a pro. Pros. Pro. Appreciate you, brother.
- [91:16]
Chris Felica
Take care, guys. Great talking to you.
- [91:17]
Mitch
Thanks, man.
- [91:18]
Todd McShay
Well, Mitch, we promised it, so we got to deliver, right? Asked and answered. For now. We'll call that the segment we've said all along we want to get everyone involved in the show. It's been a month. We've finally got our kind of feet on the ground secured a little bit here. Somewhat know what we're doing, but I'm sure we'll continue to revise and hopefully get better over time, but we got to get the audience more involved. I've said that from day one. This is going to be about engagement. I can't be at stadiums anymore engaging with fans at the NFL draft. We'll be there. We'll be there at the Senior bowl. We'll be there at the combine. There will be engagement there. But we've got to do it in this medium. And the way to do it for now is to ask questions and to get questions on Twitter is where we started today. So I sent out a tweet, I sent out an X post today and we got a lot of great responses. We can't get to all of them. This is the first time we're doing asked and answered. But please keep the questions coming in. I'll send reminders every week and we want to get everyone more involved in the show. So here are a few that we we got from this week's response to my, to my post. First, and I love this handle from Save me Michael Penix on X.
- [92:26]
Mitch
What's going on there?
- [92:27]
Todd McShay
He asked the question. You ready? He or she asked the question. I should say. Where would Bo Nix and Michael Penix Jr. Rank in the 2025 NFL Draft class? Same tier as Cam Ward and Shador. Question Mark, what do you think?
- [92:42]
Mitch
I well, I have Shadow in a different tier than Cam Ward at this point. So and I think that if you're putting Penx, you're putting in that second tier with Cam Ward and I think Carson Beckham after that game has kind of moved himself back into that conversation. So I would have the Ward, Beck, Penix conversation. I'm, I'm not going to be the guy that says, oh, I actually really like Bo Nicks now because I, I had questions about Bo Nicks. He was a guy I thought was maybe more of a second round guy. I wasn't, I was surprised to see him go early and obviously he's played fairly well. I mean I haven't watched it on a Bonix Broncos tape, but they're doing well.
- [93:17]
Todd McShay
It was the perfect marriage with Sean Payton. The perfect marriage. We said it from the beginning if that if that's where he lands, he's got a better shot there than probably vast majority of any of the other places he could go.
- [93:28]
Mitch
So he would be, he would be one tier underneath those guys with the quin ewers of the world in this class, in my opinion. And again, good for him.
- [93:35]
Todd McShay
Well, let's, let's remind everyone, I mean last year the first three picks of the draft Were Caleb Williams number one, Jaden Daniels number two, Drake May number three, obviously to the Bears Commanders and Patriots respectively. Then the surprise pick, if we're being honest, of the entire first round was, was Michael Pennix Jr. Being drafted by the Falcons at 8. Then JJ McCarthy who wasn't mentioned in this, in this X question that he goes 10 overall to the Vikings and has sat through the injury and, and then Bo, Nick's 12 to, to the Denver Broncos. So the way I looked at it was kind of a tier of its own with Caleb and Jaden a second tier of Drake May, but always thought going back off the 2022 tape that he, he was kind of in that conversation. But let's call him his own tier. And then I thought Penix, jj, Bo were kind of in that, that third tier, if you will. Okay, so to me, and I've said this from the beginning, I'm not starting the conversation at Caleb, Jaden or Drake. I'm starting the conversation with that third tier of quarterback. So I, I would say Shador, quite honestly would. The conversation would be between Penix, J.J. and Bo. And, and if I'm just going back off of last year's, I think Cam Ward, maybe you'd have the conversation with Bo Shador, probably more with Penix and JJ from last year.
- [94:59]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [94:59]
Todd McShay
Okay. And Carson Beck. I'm, I'm just really excited to see what the rest of this season looks like from Carson Becky, because what we're seeing the last couple weeks is what we were hoping to see all season and it wasn't the case. But we're building towards something. It feels like something really special or really good from, from Carson Beck down the stretch. And as I've said all along, Jalen Milro is the absolute wild card of this group and we'll, we'll handle that conversation as we go. But really good question from Save me Michael Penix on X. Second question from Daly FC on X. What's the biggest trait you look for to know whether a quarterback will be successful at the end, at the next level? My goodness. Well, we can and we will have many a show on this exact topic.
- [95:45]
Mitch
Right.
- [95:46]
Todd McShay
Physical traits though. Let's start with this. The more I'm in this business, the more I agree with Parcels and I think the goal post is moving, but especially in today's transfer portal nil situation with quarterbacks getting the opportunity and being paid for that opportunity to stay in college and make a lot of money and develop, I like the number one thing for me, before we even get into the traits is you got to play ball more, ball is better. Jaden Daniels is a perfect example. You could go to every single class like Jaden Daniels came in the league with, was it 56, bo, net, 65, whatever the number starts. Ridiculous numbers that we normally don't see because of the landscape of college football. So playing ball has become critical in the development of these quarterbacks. Very just succinctly or very simply, I think the two traits that are the most important, not arm strength, not mobility, those are very important in the evaluation. But if you don't have the mental makeup, that's it. Yeah, the decision making, the instincts, the feel for the game, the all the intangibles that go into this. If you don't have that, you're going to struggle at the next level. And if you don't have a certain level of accuracy, it has to be developed. And the thing that's been different in evaluating quarterbacks from Lamar Jackson to Josh Allen, even Cam Newton to a certain degree, like, we've seen quarterbacks improve their accuracy. Jalen hurts, We've seen them improve in the NFL. But with all of those guys, it better be accompanied if the. If the accuracy is not where it needs to be and it has to be improved in the NFL, it has to be accompanied. Not it better. It has to be accompanied with mobility.
- [97:35]
Mitch
Right.
- [97:36]
Todd McShay
That's what I've seen, at least.
- [97:37]
Mitch
Yeah, it's. It's a really diff. It's a great question, but it's a difficult question because there are really a cocktail of factors for every position, let alone quarterback, the most important position on the field. But I am with you. If you're asking me. You have to have, you know, it's a height, weight, speed league. You tell me. You used to tell me that all the time. You'd be like, man, it's a highway speed league. Because you do have these baselines for everything. Right. But if you're starting with what's the most important, it's the mental makeup. And that's why it's at the top of our reports. I mean, we spent a lot of time going through those boxes and saying, you know, a lot of back and forth. Kevin Weidl was with us at the time, a lot of arguing. Not uncommon for us.
- [98:12]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [98:12]
Mitch
As a group, going back and forth about it. And that's why mental makeup made it up top. I mean, that's the. That's your basis. And you, like fans might be like, oh, so Oregon's dealing. Gabriel's gonna be a First round pick. Because his mental makeup's so good. No, his mental makeup so good. That may. It might give him a chance to overcome some of the other. The weaknesses or concerns. You know what I mean?
- [98:32]
Todd McShay
I do. Final question today and we'll get to more as we go. Keep the questions coming. As I said, asked and answered is going to become a staple on this show. But from Anthony Brown on X, this one I'm gonna. I'm gonna defer to you, Mitch. I've done enough talking today. How does this offensive line class compare to the last three offensive line classes?
- [98:54]
Mitch
I think maybe the best way of saying this is on November 19th at this point in the process and we have a lot of work left to do. I am concerned about this group. I mean, coming into the year, I think there was three offensive. And I'm going to start with the offensive tackles because I think when you're talking about draft class, you're going to start with the offensive tackle.
- [99:13]
Todd McShay
I agree.
- [99:14]
Mitch
I think there was three coming into the year that people were excited about. Will Campbell out of LSU, Kelvin Banks Jr. Out of Texas, and Emory Jones Jr. Out of LSU. It has not gone well. And when I say it hasn't gone well, it hasn't been a complete disaster. But they have not played. Like when you watch Joe Altz on tape, you were like, this guy is.
- [99:34]
Todd McShay
A lock for a top 10 and he's been a lock as a starting right tackle for the Charger tackle class.
- [99:43]
Mitch
It doesn't even come close to what we saw last year when you. I mean, there are guys like Tyler Guyton is getting drafted late in the. In the first round and there were some concerns on Tech. He's a physical freak, that guy. Getting drafted late in the first round speaks to the depth of that class.
- [99:58]
Todd McShay
So it's not even speaks to my theory of this is a Height, weight, speed.
- [100:02]
Mitch
Yeah, it definitely does.
- [100:05]
Todd McShay
Great.
- [100:05]
Mitch
So I don't. I to be. To answer this question quickly, I guess before I get deeper into this. I don't think it compares. I don't think it's as good as any of the last three. I think this is the weakest class we've seen in a long time and again we have a long time ago, but people are talking about Will Campbell potentially being a guard and that was unthinkable coming into the year. So I have a lot of concerns. I have a lot of work to do in that area. But right now, I mean, I like the guards, Donovan Jackson of Ohio State and especially Tyler Booker from Alabama really good players. But if you're looking at, if you're one of those guys, if your team needs an offensive line in the first round, we're looking for a tackle, we're looking for a franchise tackle, not a, not a really good guard. So I'm not very optimistic or excited about this group yet. But again, a lot can change.
- [100:54]
Todd McShay
It was a good jumping off point. I'm glad we got to this today. We've had a jam packed show. One more thing to get to, but a reminder. You can find me at mcshay13 on X. You can find Steve at Scouts Inc. Mench. It's M U N C H and, and if you, if you just send us questions, we'll, we'll get to as many as we can. We'll keep doing this throughout the the draft and and beyond. One last thing, Mensch. I we just got breaking news a few minutes ago and I I debated whether to even touch on it today. We're not a breaking news show. It's not our thing. But we are, we are a NFL draft heavy show. That's the emphasis here in a lot of ways. In addition to the breaking news have very much with a GM being fired in, in the NFL, it's also a close personal friend of ours and so, you know, always having to walk the tightrope, if you will, between professionalism and our friendship in this case especially with Joe Douglas for the New York jets has been fired. That news just broke, I mean literally minutes ago just broke. And I, I contemplated in my head as we're going through those questions whether even whether to address it or not. I'll say this. We'll, we'll get more into it in future shows. We're back on Thursday and we will absolutely have Joe on when he's ready to come on at some point because we want to talk to him. Not, not even necessarily about the firing. But, but everything that he's been through, the challenges of being a gm, the exciting parts of being a gm. What are the next steps for Joe, one of the most beloved men in the NFL. Truly, I'll say this and I have not spoken to Joe today. Again. This just broke a few minutes ago. There's no need for me, as a close personal friend of Joe Douglas's to defend Joe Douglas, his work and his track record and his resume and the product he put on the field is defense enough. Okay? Joe will be just fine. Joe may Joe take a director of personnel job somewhere for a couple years and become a general manager after that. Joe May just be people in the league recognize Joe's ability, Joe's ability as a talent evaluator, Joe's ability as a leader of men, Joe's ability to, to run an organization. Okay. People also realize that Joe was in a very difficult position.
- [103:22]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [103:23]
Todd McShay
So while Joe is going to be just fine, and I have no doubt about that, the jets won't. The jets won't be. And I've had to keep my mouth shut for a long time. Six years, five and a half years now because he's in his five and a half, fifth and a half year on a six year contract. I got my same contract deal done, my former employer, the same exact time. So I know the same exact timeline. Joe will be fine. The jets won't. And the reason I say that is Woody Johnson is among the worst owners in the National Football League. And if you don't believe me because I'm close friends with Joe Douglas, believe Bill Belichick and all the comments he's made. And if you don't believe Bill because of his acts that he has to grind with Woody Johnson and his history there, then believe the product that's been put on the field. I'm telling you this. If, if the jets can't win with Joe Douglas as the general manager and with the talent that is on that roster, the jets can't win, period. It's an ownership problem, folks. And I've kept my mouth shut for too long and I won't get into a whole lot more today. I need to regroup and have conversations and kind of formulate my thoughts. But I think it's important, just my initial reaction, that it's an ownership problem and there are certain decisions that are just made that doesn't matter what the general manager wants. There are certain decisions that are just made that you got to get on board with it because, because one person makes, pays the checks and one person is, oversees the whole thing. And so if you're a Jets fan, you know exactly what I'm talking about. This is not news to you. And I feel bad for jets fans because they, they legitimately, the organization legitimately put the people in position, put the, the staff in position, put the general manager and the scouts, the guys that have. I'm not worried about Joe. I do feel for a lot of members on that staff that you and I are friends with and, and, and I know that they're all going to be just fine and they'll, they'll find landing spots. And the good news is in this league, there if you're a good scout and you do your job, and if you're a good college director or personnel director, you're going to find other landing spots, everyone's going to be just fine. But I do feel badly for all the. The collateral damage here.
- [105:43]
Mitch
Right.
- [105:43]
Todd McShay
But I also know. And I also feel badly, truly, because we're friends and we look out and we care about all the fan bases in the National Football League because it's. It's our. It's our lifeline. Right? Yeah. I feel badly for jets fans because if it wasn't going to work with this regime, with that talent on the field, I just. I don't see a. I don't see much of a future in terms of where it's going to be. And I don't. I don't know how you, you know, ownership is not going to change for a while is my guess. So how do you overcome this? And the answer is, you probably don't.
- [106:18]
Mitch
Right? I mean, look, coming into the year, they're such high expectations, and now all of a sudden it's. I mean, you look at that roster, I thought that was a roster that can compete for a Super Bowl. Now all of a sudden, it's Joe's fault that they're. They're not playing well and they haven't been able to come together. It's just.
- [106:31]
Todd McShay
Well, it's always everybody else's fault with Woody Johnson.
- [106:34]
Mitch
Right.
- [106:34]
Todd McShay
Let's find the head coach. And it's not gonna bring. They were lucky to get him.
- [106:39]
Mitch
Like, not to get into this too much, but, like, they were lucky to get him in the first place.
- [106:42]
Todd McShay
Like.
- [106:42]
Mitch
And I mean that, like, the jets were. The jets were lucky to get Joe Douglas. Joe Douglas had options, and he had options because he's so freaking good at what he does.
- [106:50]
Todd McShay
And he learned under one of the best, arguably the best to ever do it. Nazi Newsome in Baltimore. And he went to Philadelphia and they won a Super bowl there like this. Joe Douglas, forget. Forget the fact that we played college football with him at Richmond. We've known him for 25, 27 years. It just. Just focus on the resume where he's been. The champions, the super bowl championships, with Baltimore learning under. The best to ever do it. Now, Eric DaCosta, what he's doing with the Ravens year in and year out. Well, that his bosses there were Eric Dacosta and. And most importantly, Ozzie Newsome. Right. So he knows what he's doing. Goes to Philadelphia, personnel director, whatever his exact title was there.
- [107:31]
Mitch
Yeah. What do they go do same thing.
- [107:34]
Todd McShay
Win a Super bowl, hoist the Lombard. My man knows what he's doing. Okay.
- [107:38]
Mitch
Right. And so this is another decision by them.
- [107:41]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah, we'll leave it at that. And we, hey, we knew this was coming. And quite frankly, I'm not going to speak for Joe. I have not spoken to Joe about this yet. Like, I don't know that he wants to see everything through. And he, and he was damned and determined, put every ounce, like the conversations I've had with every ounce of his life into this. Right. Doing it the right way, the way that he was brought up in this league. Doing it the way Aussie would do it. Doing it with his touch on things. Like, he put everything into this. And again, he's going to be just fine. But, and I know that, like, this is not the result he was looking for. But I also know after six, and this is not from Joe's mouth. This is my, this is me. This is Todd McShay talking after six years of trying to do all the right things and doing it the way he knows the super bowl can be wonderful. And to have this as the result and to have the interference, my guess is, I don't want to say it's a relief, but my guess is it's like, all right, now, I don't, no one ever wants to get fired, but let's start looking towards some doing this somewhere else where we have a chance.
- [108:47]
Mitch
Yeah, I hope he takes a break, man. I hope he regroups a little. He's earned it.
- [108:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah, he'll be just fine. All right. Didn't expect to get to that, but we did, and I'm glad we touched on it. And we appreciate everyone listening, watching, joining the show again. Spread the word, man. We're just, we're the little engine that could. We're trying to make this thing run. And we appreciate everyone who's, who's listening, who's downloading, subscribing, liking and mention it to, you know, passing the word along. And we will be back with you on Thursday. See you, mensch. See it must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rgh-help.com, call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-32-75050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.