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The McShay Show
An Ohio State᠆Notre Dame National Championship Preview With Kirk Herbstreit, Plus Quinn Ewers Declares and Other Draft-Decision Reactions
01:18:12
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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. It's time for the first 12 team playoff and you can bet on all of the action with FanDuel. Just think about all the opportunities we're going to have to bet on the College Football Playoff. We're talking about different conferences, home games for certain teams, the three or four week run that you're going to have to play. There's so much to earn if you're betting with FanDuel this College Football Playoff season. Why we love FanDuel the There's so many markets like spreads over unders, national championship futures, and so much more. This app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gambling. Visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Texas quarterback Quinn Ewers officially declares for the NFL draft. Mistake or are we missing the point? Plus a lot of underclassmen decisions to dissect. Is Penn state primed in 2025 to be the Ohio state of 2024?
- [01:26]
Steve Levy
Aren't you bearing the lead here, man?
- [01:28]
Todd McShay
Oh, yeah. Kirk Herbstreet. He's joining the show to preview the College Football Playoff national title game between Ohio State and Notre Dame. Listen, Stevie boy, it's called a tease, okay? It's not. It's national championship week in college football. Divisional playoff week in the NFL. And how many days left until the NFL draft?
- [01:49]
Steve Levy
Just 97.
- [01:51]
Todd McShay
Oh, man. We gotta get to work, men. You good?
- [01:54]
Steve Levy
I'm good.
- [01:55]
Todd McShay
Tuck, roll out some of that music for me, baby. All right, here we are. We got a big day. Herbie's joining us, as we mentioned. Awesome. To get it like he's literally after interview, interviewing after joining our show. No one's interviewing with us joining our show. He's gonna head off and jump on the the Herbier Express and get down to Atlanta getting ready for the national championship game. He's on the call with Chris Fowler, but I wanted to start things off. We will do a whole preview and breakdown with him. We'll get into our game picks and kind of dissect what's going on with FanDuel. Try to beat the book one more time. Right. And then. But. But it's at our core, at our foundation. We're NFL draft guys, right? And we, like, that's our passion here. Quinn Ewers, Texas quarterback We've discussed it a lot. The potential for Quinn Ewers to grad transfer, the potential for him to declare for the NFL draft. And it's been made official now. I want to get kind of explained to everyone. So there's a January 15th date as we sit here on January 16th. That's the official day for underclassmen that they have to declare now because of the College Football Playoff, in the first year of the 12 team playoff, there's been an exception or an addendum written to that rule that players have. The game is being played, the national championship game is being played on the 20th, as we all know, Ohio State versus Notre Dame on the 24th. For those players participating in that game, they have to make a decision by then. So there's an extension for players from Notre Dame and Ohio State. But for the rest of the country, if you're an underclassman, you have eligibility left and you have to make a declaration whether you're leaving for the NFL or you're going to stay in college. That's to be done yesterday, January 15th. Okay? Coin yours in time for that. For that deadline made the decision. I struggled with this one, okay? Because it's like the old, the old school Todd McShay versus adjusting to the times and what we're seeing and, and the opportunities. Okay? So here's where I want to kind of take this from a business standpoint. If I'm an advisor for Quinn Ewers, I am talking to the same people that, that I myself have talked to that Todd McShay has had the conversations with. And those are people in the NFL. And I told you last week, everyone I've spoken to in the NFL, everyone solicited or unsolicited, has said Quinn ers needs to grad transfer. Archie Manning is the quarterback of the future. There's no question, second, that that final gun went off in the, in the Cotton bowl and they lost that game. It's arch time in Austin, Texas. We know that. But Quinn did not have the best year of his career. There's still growth that can occur for Quinn Ewers. Maybe it would take a fresh start somewhere else. A new offensive coordinator, a new head coach. Maybe it would simply just take a full year of health after the oblique injury, the ankle injury. Okay? Everyone in the league told me that solicited, unsolicited Quinn Ewers needs to grad transfer and the reason why, there's two parts to it. First of all, despite all the games played, right, all the starts he's made, all the wars he's been through, and we've talked extensively in this show and I will never stop talking about how critical game experience is to quarterbacks when they get in the NFL. It's not about, oh, I got drafted third overall, so I got $33 million guaranteed in a five year contract or I got drafted 20 overall, so I've got like 18 million guaranteed. It's not about that. It's about the career, it's about the second contract, but it's about if I'm going to be a first round pick, I'm probably going to have to play and am I ready to play? And even as a second round draft pick, like didn't take long for Will Levis to get on the field. Okay. Quinn Ewers is not the draft pick that he wants to be. Probably a third or fourth round draft pick. Okay. I've talked to some people who think second round. I've talked to some people in the league who have them fifth round. Okay. That's a wide range and it's not a range you want. I'd be curious to find out because we've talked about this too. The, the committee, the underclassman committee that you can put in your, you know, put in a, a claim to or you know, you can question the committee on where you're going to get drafted. Right, right. And we've talked about this, that you get one of three answers from that committee. The, under the underclassman advisory committee is the name. First round, second round, go back to school. Okay. And they're not always right. Like I'll, as we get closer to draft, I'll get into, you know, there were like seven guys last year, they were told go back to school. It wound up being second round picks and there's, there's all sorts of numbers, but for the most part they're in the general area. Okay. I'm guessing he got to go back to school. Maybe at best he got a second round. Okay, so with that as the backdrop, that's not the answer you want. So that right there kind of tells you maybe I should go back to school for another year. The second part of this, and this is the new age, right, is that we've got these nil deals. Carson Beck. The initial report was $3 million that Carson Beck got from Miami to go. And then there were some reports of 4 million. And now, now I'm reading to that it that potentially like there could be more and it could be closer to like 8, 10 million, you know, like, and I don't know what's true. All I know is the initial is somewhere in that 3 to 4 million dollar range. And what I can do is compare that to what a second or third round draft pick would have been in terms of his, his money for his rookie year. I was told Will Levis made, excuse me, $995,000 his rookie year. So let's call it a million. And let's say Carson beck is making 4 million at Miami and I'm not good at math, but $3 million pay cut or say he's making 3 million, it's still $2 million more to stay in college for another year. Okay. And so for Quinn Ewers, I'm not saying it would have been the same money, but I got a guess and I have read substantiated reports there were offers to go other places for sizable quarterback money in this nil market. So let's just even call it 2 million. And that now is maybe a third or fourth round pick. You're talking, you know, over a million dollar pay cut that he's going to take to be a rookie in the NFL business wise. Not a great decision in my opinion. Okay, not even my opinion. That's the fact of it. The second part is I think he could have benefited from another year, maybe a different system, maybe just a healthy year, more game experience. We've talked about Jaden Daniels, the transfer. We've talked about, you know, Caleb Williams being transfer. We've talked about, you know, B Knicks, Michael Penck, you know, like getting a second opportunity at a different place, fresh set of eyes on you and, and trying to figure out strengths and weaknesses. I think he could have benefited, right? But then there's this. And only in the last like 24 hours did I start thinking about this. There's something special about college football and the dreams you have as a young man growing up and being a Texas guy and, and always your entire life wanting to play for Texas and be the starting quarterback at Texas and you accomplish that, that dream as a child and you do it at a damn high level. You know, college football semifinals two years in a row, win a lot of games, kind of, I don't want to say turned around but, but really helped elevate a Texas program that had been sputtering for a long time, you know, since like the Vince Young days. Got this Thing turned around. Sark obviously comes in huge part of that. But Quinn was all will always be remembered as the quarterback that kind of like jolted the Texas program. And there's something too like, do I just want to be another one of these NIL veterans bouncing around from school to school? I want to be remembered as the Texas corps quarterback. And so that part of it I understand and appreciate, to be quite honest. You know, that's where I am on it. Go ahead.
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Steve Levy
I'm gonna give you a subtle pushback and then I'm gonna agree with you. And my, my slight pushback is this. There is no way. My instinct tells me that there's no way he gets out of the second round. And I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying about the tape. I'm know what you're saying about the year. I know what you're saying about conversations you've had with scouts. All of that adds up to me, by the way. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. But this happens all the time where we talk in January and then we get into the pre draft process and all of a sudden you hear Quinn Ewers had some of the most remarkable interviews I've ever heard. This guy's so sharp. You get him on the board. He knows this. He's so charismatic when you get him in the room. And I think, I think he has a chance to have that kind of a, a pre draft process with his interviews. I think he's going to throw the ball. You're going to go to the pro d be like, oh, look at him throwing the ball. Like David Pollock talked about in the, you know, our first episode of the show, man. Yeah, he's a guy you see on the, on the driving range and he's just striping it. He's going to, I think, kill the pre draft process. I think this is a weak class. I think they benefit from that. And that's why I think I, I.
- [11:32]
Todd McShay
Think that's a big part of it too.
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Steve Levy
Right. So they benefit from that. In terms of where he's going to go. Here's where I agree with you. Is it about where you're going to get drafted or is it about your long term success and, and how much success you have over the course of your, your career? And to me, that's what it should be about. It should be about that. It should be about how well you're going to play over the course of your career. And he puts himself in the best position by going back for another year of school, playing some more football again, ideally staying healthy and showing. I mean, this kid's a talented kid. If he goes back and has a great year, you potentially go from an early second round pick, maybe even a late first, to guy who's going to go much earlier, who's going to be in a much better position to succeed. So to me, ultimately, at the end, I agree with you. He should, I think he should have gone back.
- [12:17]
Todd McShay
You mentioned it and, and it's the one part I failed to mention. I'm glad you brought it up. There are agents involved and so, and those agents are looking at nil deals. And also comparing, comparing this year's quarterback class to what potentially could be next year's quarterback class, I think that played into Jalen Milroe's decision to leave for the draft. Right. But you've got Carson Beck going back to school. You've got Garrett Nussmeier, who, who could be the first quarterback taken next year going back to school. You've got some younger quarterbacks elevating. Yeah, I think it. Absolutely. I mean, this is kind of widely known as a weak quarterback class after two years of much better quarterback, you know, quarterback talent coming out in the draft. So I do think that that factored in and I wish to do the best, man. Like, you know, of course, I mean, all of them, all of these guys, and I've said that before, you want the best for them. And he certainly is prepared from a coaching experience. Like the coaching that he's gotten from Sark is, we've. Is well documented in his experience in the NFL and Stark's experience at Alabama, his experience developing quarterbacks for, for decades now in college football, like, you're well prepared in that department. There's no question about it. He's got a lot of games under his belt. But I just, yeah, I. It is what it is now and so it's time to just turn the page. And so now we, now we move forward and we kind of stack it in this year's quarterback class and it's going to be interesting. This year's class is interesting. And I don't want to do a whole lot of time, but I just, I'll throw it out there. Like, you've got a lot of people are on the Cam Ward bus and a lot of people are on the Shador Sanders bus. And not all those people are on or want to take a ride on both buses. You know, they're like, some people are, you know what I mean? Like Planting like now I'm the cam guy. Right.
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Steve Levy
Well they're very different players.
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Todd McShay
Right.
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Steve Levy
That makes sense. That adds up. It's stacked, right?
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Todd McShay
Yeah, totally. And so it's either I'm a cam guy or Shador guy. But then after that, you know, where, where does Quinn factor into this? I. I keep hearing a lot of love for Jackson Dart from Ole Miss and he's going to have a great process like you were talking about.
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Steve Levy
Right.
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Todd McShay
Smart guy. A lot of wars tough, you know, has the arm get him in an NFL system. I can't wait to watch him at the Senior bowl and kind of see him NFL system. How does he respond that week? And, and I think when ewers in that discussion Jalen Milroe at the Senior bowl as well, like that's going to be an awesome week and that's not even the strength of this year's Senior Bowl Classic quarterbacks but it's pretty intriguing and like the defensive line group and all of that. But another, another decision that was made which I, I totally understood was Matthew golden wide receiver.
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Steve Levy
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
That's a guy I've fallen in love with. I mean money huh. We haven't done a. That's my guy in a. In a little while. But, but he would be, he would be next. I just, I've absolutely fallen in love with him in a wide receiver class. That's. And I'm interested. I think he's fast. I mean I see it on tape. I'm interested to see. I mean he's not going to set the record late, you know, break the record that Xavier Worthy broke last year with a four two one, you know, with his 40 yard dash. But, but I think he's. I think he's going to be in like that high 43 worst case like low 44 range. I see the speed Isaiah Bond, his teammate is. People think that he's going to run the fastest 40 yard.
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Steve Levy
That's an interesting.
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Todd McShay
Anyone? Very interesting one. I think there's some fool's gold there and not play on words but Matthew golden to me is a better. Is a better prospect what he's shown and I just. I'm interested your take like Matthew golden and we've. I've got more tape to do and got to go down break down the whole season and all that but when I start to look at this wide receiver classic is Travis Hunter a receiver cornerback. Let's just remove him because he's. He's a kind of a unicorn.
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Steve Levy
Yeah.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
But like we got Tetraroa McMillan. We've got Luther Burden. Yeah, I was gonna say Luther Burden. Those are two guys that, you know, that everyone had, like. I. I don't know. I'll be interested to see when I'm done actually doing the tape, stacking in one tape after the other. And I've done a lot on McMillan. I've done a lot on Burden. I know who those guys are. But then. But for me. And I know you're the same because we do the process together every year. The. The exercise of watching one player's tape at the same position, then the next player's tape, and then, like, put in Golden's tape and stack that up mentally.
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Steve Levy
Right.
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Todd McShay
I. I won't. I'll be surprised if he's not in my top five. I think there could be an argument that he's kind of up there, and I'll be interested to see how that plays out. Yeah. And in terms of, like, the top three. Top three, four receivers in this class.
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Steve Levy
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, the thing with Bond that's interesting to me is he didn't put up big numbers at Alabama necessarily, but I loved his 2023 tape so much better. So it'll be interesting to see how banged up he was this year and how much of that played a role and all that. That's all part of the process. A lot of that stuff will start to come out over the next few months.
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Todd McShay
What's going on at Penn State, man, like, these under. These underclassmen declarations on January 15 are always fascinating to me because there's two aspects of it, all right. How. How is this. How is this elevating this year's class, the 2025 NFL Draft class? Right. But also, how's it affecting the 2025 college football season? Right, Right. Like, Drew Aller is going back to school. And I think that got cemented, you know, cemented by the fact that he didn't. He didn't play his. His best in the final game. Played. Okay. Penn State. I'm getting the sense I said it in the open. It's like James Franklin saying, you know, hey, see what happened in Columbus last year? And I'm sure Herby will get to this, but you see, like, third, fourth, fifth year guys who could have gone to the NFL are coming back and playing. We'll get you some n money. We'll make it worthwhile. You're not going to take a pay cut, but let's make a real run at this next year. Now, we got our quarterback back. What else. What else is coming back to Penn State?
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Steve Levy
They got both of their talented running backs, Katron Allen and Nick Singleton, who I think was a day two guy.
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Todd McShay
Singleton surprised me.
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Steve Levy
I mean, that's a. That's a big one. You know, everyone talks about Abdul Carter coming off the edge there, but the other guy denied. Dennis Sutton, the other edge is a talented guy that I think probably could have been a day two guy. He's going back. Zane Durant, a defensive tackle, I think was going to be drafted. All of them are going back. I mean, these are all. These are all names. When you add aller, those are five guys that I think had a chance to be drafted. Some of them day two, and they're all.
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Todd McShay
They've all.
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Steve Levy
All the reports are they're all headed back. I mean, that puts them in a great position to build off of going into next year.
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Todd McShay
Great position. I mean, if I'm Penn State, you get all those players back. Now we got to get some weapons on the outside and. And we can legitimately be the class of the. Of the Big Ten next year.
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Steve Levy
Legitimately, we're gonna have. They're going to have to rebuild the receiver room. I think Amari Evans is leaving. Other receivers are leaving.
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Todd McShay
So that's like anyone. And I mean no disrespect, I really don't like good players stepped up when they had to. They need to bring in a dude or two.
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Steve Levy
Right. They gotta figure that out.
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Todd McShay
So all chips are in. Penn State's got to bring in a dude or two at wide receiver. And. And it's not a hard recruiting pitch, man. We're the elite. We're. We're up with the elite in the Big Ten. We've got a quarterback that can get you the ball. We want to open things up. We're creative offensively. We just don't have. You're the missing piece.
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Steve Levy
Yeah. Think about, I don't know, these Penn State fans, maybe they're. Maybe they can back away from the ledge a little bit. You know, after last week, that brutal loss, maybe they get this news and it's a little. It takes a little bit of the sting away, hopefully.
- [20:17]
Todd McShay
Yeah. All right, well, we've got the national championship game coming up. After the national championship game, like, we are just hit the ground running. This is when the show was going to. I mean, I'm fired up. We'll get at that point, we'll have all the underclassmen with Ohio State and Notre Dame, all those players declaring. We can kind of do an analysis of, of all the players that are in. Take an early look at the draft board by positions and just kind of see what we're looking at in terms of the talent there. And then. And like right away we get Jim Nagy coming on, you know, on the Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday following the following, the, the national championship game, which is, is next week. So, so we, I mean, it's, it's national championship reaction show on Monday night. Okay. And then please join us on YouTube. You know, I, I love, I always call it our community, whatever we're going to call it. So national championship game reaction show right after. Actually, not right after. I almost forgot.
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Steve Levy
That's right.
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Todd McShay
Five minute mark. Five minute mark. Sorry, Herby. We're about to bring Kirk on. We're going to cut into your broadcast. We're going to steal millions from the viewership of the broadcast because they're going to be right here on YouTube with us. So that's Monday night. Then we're back a couple days later on Thursday. I think it's going to drop. Thursday morning we'll, we'll have Jim Nagy previewing the Senior bowl and we'll get into all this other drafts discussion. But how lucky are we, man? Like the old Harbaugh routine of who's got it better than us leading up to the national championship game. What, what voice do you want to hear from? It's, it's the guy calling. It's the face and voice of college football. Kirk, Herb Street, a really good friend of mine and a friend of this show, is going to join us in just a minute here. And I'm sure it's going to be a great conversation. Looking forward to that. The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. There's nothing like the NFL playoffs. It's one big game after another. And you know what? Big games deserve bigger payouts. That's why FanDuel is giving all customers a same game parlay profit boost every game day during the NFL playoffs. It doesn't matter if you're new to FanDuel or already have an account. You'll score a bigger payout if your SGP hits. The same game Parlay that I'm looking at here is in the Chiefs Texans game. CJ Stroud over 14 and a half rushing yards. Get it now while you can. That number keeps going up. The Chiefs love to get opposing quarterbacks to run the football. I think Stroud's going to have a bigger day than expected. Running the ball on this one and Also the other side Xavier Worthy for the Chiefs Been a big time target for Patrick Mahomes down the stretch. In the last five games he's had at least five catches. Also games with six, seven and eight the over unders four and a half catches in this game I'm taking the over for Xavier Worthy so don't watch from the sidelines. Visit FanDuel.com mCShay to get in on the action. That's FanDuel.com mCSHay to get a same game parlay profit boost every game day during the NFL playoffs Make every moment more with FanDuel an official sportsbook partner of the NFL must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. opt in required minimum three leg parlay required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800-gambler or visit rg d help.com Here he is. We we promised and we delivered Kirk we we appreciate the time man. I know like this this is kind of the finish line. I I can't even imagine I'm sure I'm hopeful for you and I know you probably do have some vacation planned and all that. Well deserved. Everyone I bring on I'd like to kind of share real quickly and you'll strangle me for for going through this but real quickly like two things I want people to know about Kirk. 15 years at ESPN kind of a teammate from a distance a lot but college game day radio doing hits with game day and eventually the ABC NFL draft they were honestly with I would put him up there he and and Mel Kuiper very different ways. The two most supportive people of me throughout my career like serving as a compass promoting what I was doing. Quick text every once in a while make sure like hey you know we're doing it the right way and and also just helping me you know with the ABC draft and working with him was just kind of a special experience for me. So that's first of all and second of all I hope people appreciate and I know Kirk's gonna kill me for this but like there isn't a more important voice in college football and advocate for the sport and it's never an agenda about a program. It's never an agenda about a conference like having kind of been there behind the scenes and some of the stuff obviously not all but the meetings with important people and the promotion of college football that's truly, I can honestly sit here and say the most important thing professionally for Kirk always has been every conversation I've been around overheard one on one with him. In conferences, the college football preseason conferences we'd have where everyone gets together, it's all about what's best for the game. And I've always appreciated that because he has an unbelievable platform, but he uses it truly to protect this game that we all love. So with that is the introduction. Appreciate you being here.
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Kirk Herbstreit
I appreciate it and I loved working with you. Hope one day we can do it again. I am drawn to people who have passion. I didn't know you, I never, I never met you, but I was pretty well established by the time you came around and I just found it's always been my role, I guess Darren Brown, my buddy calls it quarterbacking. You know, I just find my role is to encourage people to, you know, like a guy like you or David Pollack or Joey Galloway or Dusty Dvorak or I mean just, you name it. I've never looked at anybody as a competitor of mine. I've never looked at anybody as somebody that's, oh, one day they're going to try to take my job. I, I've just gravitated to like minded people who love ball, who, who are kind of in this world of Instagram and, and saying crazy things and getting posts and, and what can I say? Outrageous to try to, to try to get, to go viral. I, I've always been drawn to people who don't really do that. They are drawn to loving the game, studying the game, promoting the game. And I saw that with you early and I think that's why I would send you random texts or offer encouragement just because I, I loved what you were, what you were about and your, your career obviously blossomed and took off. But yeah, man, I, I think what your introduction is interesting because where we are currently in the sport with Nil and portal and 12 team playoff and all these debates you get, you get accused of having an agenda, you get accused of, of, of trying to do something for whatever league or team you're trying to promote. And really at the end of the day it's, it's tougher and tougher to defend the sport. You know, I, I, I do have the luxury of talking to coaches. You've been involved in these conversations where it's not the coach at the podium that, that we talk to, you know, the guard is down. Yes, incredibly real. And they can't say what they say. A lot of times to me. And then I have to figure out a delicate way to try to be a liaison between what's real and what should be said. And I'm willing to take bullets, you know, for. For. For. For what's real. And sometimes that gets me in a. In a tough spot. But yeah, it's. It's fun. I mean, it's. Who thought, you know, when. When you left. Think about how much the sport has changed. I mean, it's amazing those couple years and where we are now and who the hell knows where we're going, you know, in. In the next few years with. I guess there's going to be a big meeting in April with revenue share. And so by the time we sit down and talk next year, there'll be even more changes. But happy to be with you, man, and love to get into whatever you guys want to talk about.
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Todd McShay
It's almost like. Like a preservation society. Right? Like all these beautiful places in the country, there's always like a preservation society that everyone locally can't stand because they cause problems and they. They tell you return. But then you look around, it's like, wait, this is still like the preserved land. This is what makes it beautiful. This is what. What is special about this area of the country. Right. And I've always kind of viewed your. Your role in those conversations you have with coaches and people who are like. Who care similarly to that you. You do of, like, being their. Their mouthpiece and trying to protect this game that we love. And so we'll get to the game in just one like. Like last question on this. But as you look at this landscape and, you know, what's on kind of, you know, on the forefront and the meeting coming up that you're talking about, like, where are we now? And what. What are you hopeful in terms of where, you know, the direction we're going? Knowing that a lot of things are inevitable. But what. What in your mind and Kirk, Herb Street's mind, like, what's important that we are able to kind of preserve.
- [29:59]
Kirk Herbstreit
Well, the traditions, obviously. I mean, the rivalries, all that. A lot of this with the realignment, everything is just. It's like a fire hose. I mean, everything came at once. I mean, we're so focused on nil and Portal. But USC playing Oregon is a Big Ten conference game. You know, it's like your mind exploded, you know, and. And so I think the biggest thing that concerns me is who's in charge.
- [30:26]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [30:26]
Kirk Herbstreit
You know, if you're Greg Sankey, you have a very focused agenda for. For as the sport moves forward, about the SEC and Tony in the Big Ten is focused on, on the Big Ten and they, you know, their constituents and of course they should. I think we're governing the Sport like it's 1982 and it used to be a regional sport. Like I, I don't know about for you guys, but like if you grew up in Ohio in the 70s and 80s, it was only thing that you even knew about was the Rose bowl, right? You know, what Alabama was doing or what Miami of Florida was doing. I mean, you watched and it was cool, but like it was like a different pool. It didn't affect you. You were worried. And if Ohio State finished 8 and 3 and they won the against Michigan and they won the Rose bowl, people went crazy. It was a great year. Everybody celebrated. Obviously that's all changed now. So I think as the world has changed and the rules of engagement have changed and now the Big Ten and what used to be known as the Pac 10 or Pac 12, now they've gone into the Big Ten and now they're in with the SEC and Miami and everybody is now together in the postseason. Well, now it's a national sport and I still feel like we're looking at it through these different silos. So how do we move forward? Where the Big Ten or the SEC might think we need to go this way and other leaders might say, no, we need to go this way. I just don't know how we get anywhere unless we eventually get to a commissioner with one voice that these conference commissioners speak to and convey their concerns in this commissioner's office. This is how we're going to move forward. I appreciate everybody's input. This is what we're going to do. The players form some kind of a union. It doesn't have to be. It could be former players, it could be a couple current players. Well, I don't know what the answer is, but you form a union, you create a collective bargaining agreement, you get through all the minutia of antitrust laws, you agree on nil, you agree on transfer portal, you agree on dates and when things can you bring some sense to this whole. And the players have to sign off on it. They agree to the rev share percentage and everybody's okay with it. And now we have structure and now we like the NFL. You know, the Minnesota Vikings play the Detroit Lions. They're both whatever they were 14 and two and hey, winners take all. You know, this is what, this is what happens. They're number one seed home field throughout the loser You're a five seed, you're going all the way down. It's just the way it works, and no one really debates it. It's not subjective. It's like, these are the rules. Yeah, Coach Football has to get to that place. We have to get to that place where we've knocked that wall down, where players are being paid. We just have to now have some parameters and some rules of engagement. There are no rules. Just do whatever you want to do. Over here, over there, the collectives getting involved, I think that's not great for the sport. The fact that you're going to pay a guy $10 million to come play for your school and it's pay for play. Nil was about a guy like Bryce Young in Alabama. If he can make $10 million being Bryce Young, I think we all agree, so be it. Go make $10 million. If Caleb Williams at USC creates a brand for himself and he can make $10 million and drive a Lamborghini, so be it. But I don't like stealing from Miami of Ohio or whoever it might be for the sake of, hey, you know, Texas A and M needs a left tackle. Okay, let's go to Southern Miss and get that freshman All American. That's not good for the game. So there's so many things we could go on forever of what needs to be done. At the end of the day, we need leadership, we need a voice. We need somebody that's got the gut, has the guts to stand up to the threat of litigation. And only way you can do that is partner with some kind of players union and create a cba, create some rules, everybody understands them, and away we go. And right now, the players have all the control. When you and I played, we had zero control. Right now, they have all the control. And obviously that's not good for the players themselves. It's not good for the game. The players may think it's good for them, but as a parent, that's scary. Yeah, it's not. You know, some of the best things that I learned when I was 18, 19, 20 were some of the worst things that I went through. If I could have had an easy way out, I would have taken it every time. But, man, you know how I mean, football, that's what it teaches, is that hard work and perseverance and this sucks. This isn't fair. The coach is doing this. But keep going, and you keep going and you keep going. And after your experience, and maybe it wasn't perfect, mine certainly wasn't. But, man, I learned so Many life lessons that impact me every single day of my life, whether it's as a husband or as a dad, as a employee of ESPN or Amazon, whatever. I do my preparation, like, before I talk to you, I'm on my board right now. I'm taking notes, I'm studying film. There's a lot there that I feel like we're taking away from the players and I'm just hopeful that we get back to, you know, coaches having a positive impact. Even though it's tough love, it's, it's a positive long term impact. And I feel like that's being taken away in a lot of cases from the players and from the coaches.
- [36:13]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I mean, there, there's a lot to take away there. Kirk and I appreciate you taking the time. Like, we've, we've got to make sure that we, like I said, we preserve this game that we all love. And there's a happy medium with all of this, but it's going to take leadership to, to find that, that sweet spot. All right, we're here, man. You're calling the game. There's nobody better to talk to. And it's some heavy stuff, but it's important stuff. But this is, this is the game that we all, all prepare for. Every player is, you know, every, every day they put in work is trying to get here. We've got Ohio State, Notre Dame, National Championship. You're on the call and you know, you and Chris Fowler obviously in the booth as you prepare for this game. I kind of, I don't know why, but the first thing that jumps out to me, and I'm curious to get your take on it, like the coaching job that has been done coming off of that Michigan game from, from Ryan Day to kind of galvanize this team and it's us versus the world and put that, putting us that behind, like, that's not easy to do in this day and age. We live to Chip Kelly and like, like the counters and misdirection and opening up the passing game and empowering his quarterback to Jim Knowles to like adding safety Caleb Downs and now a different defensive coverage structure. Like, to see that much coaching going in this late in the season, how unique is that? And just kind of explain to people who are, who are tuning in how impactful that's all been for this Ohio State run.
- [37:46]
Kirk Herbstreit
I think that's what's so cool about this 12 team playoff is you have two teams that hit some serious adversity and had to overcome it to even punch their ticket to get into the playoff. And in Ohio State's case, as you know, I mean, the Ohio State Michigan game, I mean, you put it up there with whatever. Whatever rivalry you want to put it up there with. And I lived it myself. And when I was there, we never beat Michigan. And John Cooper was. Was criticized. John Cooper was, you know, of course, no matter. He'd go 11 and one every year and lose that game. And. And people every single year said, fire and fire and fire him. And he lasted somehow about 13 years. And, you know, Jim Trestle had a ton of success. And then urban Meyer was 7 and oh, and then Ryan Day came in right after Urban Meyer went seven and oh, and he's had some difficulties here these last, you know, was going into this year, the last three years. So many devastating losses. And they put it all in on this year that, you know, they get them at home. Michigan was kind of rebuilding after their national championship year. Obviously didn't have a great year offensively. And everyone just knew. Ohio State fans just thought it was a given. Who cares about the rivalry? Ohio State, they're too good. They're going to win, and they lose that one. And then we see. We see what happened at the end. The flag situation, the fight, a mess. And the. A lot of the narrative on the back end of that, not from the nation. Well, I guess the nation too, but I think more impactful was a lot of the Ohio State media and fans were like, this guy's lost four in a row. Urban won seven in a row. You know, regardless of how many games he's won, he can't win that game. And there was a bit, who cares? We're going to the playoff. There was like that. That was hanging around for. I don't mean everybody, but a good percentage of people. And then they played Tennessee and you saw. I mean, we know Tennessee travels, but Somehow Tennessee had 35,000 fans inside Ohio Stadium. So I know it's cold out, but if. If they had that game right now, with the buzz and energy around Ohio State football right now, yeah, there would have been maybe seven Tennessee fans in that stadium. So.
- [39:56]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [39:57]
Kirk Herbstreit
That tells you that people are like, the hell with it after that Michigan game. And so I happen to have a son on the team who's a senior. They do what's called senior tackle. It's a tradition they do every year and used to be open to the public and the media. It's closed now, except for the senior parents and the rest of the team and the coaches. And we went to it and what they do is they, they. It's a very tight knit thing. He gets his, his seniors and he says something about 45 seconds to a minute about each guy and then the guy grabs the mic and he says what it's meant to him to be a part of Ohio State. This is fresh off of all this stuff.
- [40:38]
Steve Levy
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Kirk Herbstreit
And man, I just stood there as a dad and I just watched and I mean tearing up watching Trevion Henderson talk, who's been through a lot watching, you know, Jack Sawyer talked. JTT talk. Like watching all these guys. Lathan Ransom, that's what's, I think a little bit of a misconception is Ohio State bought their, their roster. It's. They had to spend money to keep a lot of guys because a lot of these guys have been playing on defense for three. They've lost to Michigan four times on the field. Caleb Downs is a new piece, but everybody else has been there. They just had to spend money in this new world so they wouldn't leave.
- [41:21]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [41:21]
Kirk Herbstreit
I think, I think it's a little bit of a misconception that some people talk about they better win. They went out and spent $20 million. No, that's to keep a lot of these guys. So it was a veteran group that suffered a lot. And I feel like they kind of drew a line in the sand that day at that senior tackle. And all I heard from each guy is as they were kind of crying talking like this isn't it? We're not saying goodbye. Like we got four more games. Every single guy talked to Ryan day after and he opened up a lot to me about what he was feeling at that time. And he had a look in his eye like he was about to go into a middle of a ring at an MMA or UFC fight and, and go to, to the death. Like that look in his eye and fight or flight and it was just like he's like, we got four. Last thing he said to me is, we got. Hey, I'll see you soon, man. He goes, we got four more to go. Like I must have heard. I was just like, man, these guys, this is more than just talk. Like there's a look. So they played Tennessee, they took care of business, they went out to the Rose bowl, took care of business. As you said, they opened up things, they got more aggressive. It's almost like the weight of just the stress of Michigan was behind them. Like, what the hell? What else could go wrong? Like what do we have to do right? What do we have to lose kind of mentality And I think that's really carried them. And then they go to the game against Texas, and Texas did a great job defensively taking Jeremiah away. The big playability away. Chip had to find other answers, and he did with Carnell Tate and Trevion Henderson, who's a freaky talented back junkins, the kid that came over from Ole Miss, and they just had to kind of earn their way. If Texas would have scored there at the one yard line and tie it up with about three to go, that would have been a hell of a finish to see what would have happened, right? Yeah.
- [43:17]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [43:18]
Kirk Herbstreit
But Jack Sawyer ends up making the play. So now here we go. You know, it's. It's Ohio State and Notre Dame's had to go overcome their own obstacles. If you look at it on paper. That's why Vegas, I think, has Ohio State, whatever it is, 8 or 9 point favorite. If you go position by position, which is a dangerous thing to me in football, it's very easy to say, Ohio State's better here, they're better here, they're better here. Notre Dame is like that typical. Like a team that they make a movie out of that.
- [43:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [43:50]
Kirk Herbstreit
How did they win the national championship kind of thing. They have good players, but they're a better team. They're a great team. You look at them in pre. Pregame and you watch. I mean, there's a few guys that kind of stand out that you look at the other end, who they're playing, you're like, well, look at that guy. You look at Notre Dame, you're like, we'll see. And then they. And then they play as 11 on special teams and defense, mainly offense is doing what they need to do. That's what makes this game so exciting for me. Getting ready to call it is you have this. This team that's just like a freight train with all this NFL talent and experience, Ohio State. And you got Marcus Freeman, a former Buckeye who was a great player who within a few years has taken Notre Dame all the way to the national championship. Nobody really looks at them as like, there's no way you can really win this game. It's almost like, please keep telling us that. Yes, please keep telling us we have no chance to win this game.
- [44:49]
Steve Levy
Right.
- [44:50]
Kirk Herbstreit
We're going to accidentally show up Monday night. We'll, if you'll allow us, we'll put our uniforms on. Why don't we kick it off and let's just. Let's just see what happens. That's the kind of the vibe I feel like Coming out of the Notre Dame camp, I just feel like in college football, you just never. No. And I think that's what makes this game. Now, Notre Dame will have to win the turnover margin. They'll have to win the field position battle with, with special teams, whether they get a big block punt or make a play on that in that area. And they're going to have to, like, find a way to get to that fourth quarter and look up and it's 20 to 17, or it's 17, 14 or whatever it is, and it's like, all right, let's. Now we got them where we want them. Let's go find a way to win this game. I mean, it's going to have to be that old school style of football to play in their favor. Limit the explosives, play old school football and find a way to win it the fourth quarter. If it goes their way, that's how it'll have to go.
- [46:00]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [46:00]
Steve Levy
I mean, when I look at it, I see it the same way. I mean, they have to. Notre Dame has to try and take that more talented Ohio State team into the deep water and try to make it a battle of wills, keep it close. Maybe a gadget play comes into play. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be surprised to see a, A trick play at some point. But, but the problem I think Notre Dame faces that this Ohio State team is a tough, physical team, too.
- [46:22]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [46:22]
Steve Levy
It's almost a little bit of careful what you ask for, because you don't want to meet those guys in an alley either.
- [46:27]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Steve Levy
So, you know, it seems to me that it's going to have to unfold the same way. It's going to be that Notre Dame runs the ball well enough to sustain drives, to, to extend drives and to keep it close. But Marcus Freeman and his staff have been excellent all year, so it'll be interesting to see what their game plan is.
- [46:41]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [46:42]
Kirk Herbstreit
I mean, I, I do think people underestimate Notre Dame's talent. Standing on the field and watching him against Penn State, that first half could not have gone any worse for them offensively. You know, they just couldn't come up with any, any playmakers. And, And Todd, if you evaluated you and Steve looked at their, their wide receivers, they're. They're good athletes. I don't know if they, you know, they don't have Jeremiah Smith, Mecca, Buca Carnell, Tate. You know, those guys were clearly selected to be difference makers in an offense. They have very talented guys that are very capable, kind of like gym rats, kind of guys that, that if, if you sleep on them, then I think you're going to get in trouble. They do a really good job with, you know, little things like their formations, their motions, their tempo, just enough to give you some headaches and how you communicate on defense. And Mike Denbrock's one of the best. You know, he's the offensive coordinator and play caller for Notre Dame. He had Desmond Ritter at Cincinnati the year that Cincinnati went all the way to the playoff and lost Alabama. He's had Jaden Daniels.
- [47:54]
Todd McShay
Daniels, yeah. The turnaround he made with him.
- [47:56]
Kirk Herbstreit
So the reason I bring that up is he's been there, he's done that. He understands when you go up against a Goliath like this. And he also has experience in working with a skill set like Riley Leonard. I'm not comparing Riley to the previous two that we talked about. Obviously Jaden Daniels is a generational talent, but it's a similar skill set as far as this guy has the ability to run the QB run game. If they hang in. And like you said, Steve, if they get their run game going, clearly Riley Leonard is going to have to carry it 15, 20 times and have to be that plus one, that Ohio State is going to get Caleb Downs and Latham Ransom down and have to be involved and run support. Maybe that gives them some opportunities. I think the corners at Ohio State are good. They've been vulnerable. If there's one spot where they, you.
- [48:49]
Todd McShay
Can, you get them right, you can.
- [48:51]
Kirk Herbstreit
Make plays when they're on islands and I think Notre Dame's good enough. So if you can get those safeties down to have to account for Riley and Jeremiah Love and company and get them involved in run support and then you play action and you start to try to get some deep crossers or sail route concepts, whatever it might be, you know, all that's going to have to be like a jigsaw puzzle that Denbrock's putting together as the game is going on. If they can't run the ball because that Ohio State defensive line is on fire, not just the edge guys, but Ty Leak, Williams is an NFL guy. Hamilton, I mean, they're, they're, they're physical, they're shedding people. Like if they're winning and they don't need the safeties down, then we can, you know, it's, it's over. You know, Notre Dame's offensive line will have to win that battle up first front and avoid those third and obvious passing situations, kind of play on their terms. I think for them to, to really get some rhythm going offensively. Otherwise they'll have to do what they did against Georgia. They did not have any rhythm offensively, but they won. Special teams had a big return. They, they got big turnover. Gave them the ball at like the 10 yard line. Like, it'd have to be that kind of game if they can't get their offense going against a very, very athletic and powerful Ohio State defense.
- [50:13]
Todd McShay
I don't know about you, but I'm kind of fascinated. On the other side of the ball, you've got this, this Notre Dame defense, like cover one safety up in your face, like press man and confident. But then you look at Ohio State and since the Michigan game, it's like, all right, go ahead, try us. Chip is absolutely empowered. Will Howard as a passer. I've seen so much growth out of him. Obviously, the weapons he has with, with, with four and two and Tate when they. Carnell Tate, 17 when they need him. But you look at it, okay, man to man. Tennessee nightmare, right? Oregon tried to kind of mix things up. We saw when they were playing a little more zone than they were comfortable with, breakdowns in the secondary. Then you see Texas, the best in the country. It's zone coverage, like, is disciplined and just functional inside that structure, as you'll find in college football. Did a great job, but as you said, Chip and kind of had to manufacture things a little more patience. But this is not a Notre Dame too. Like, I watch him on tape. It's all of this press, man, and that aggressive attack. So is it. Are we going to get away from what we do best, or are we just going to line up and do what we do best and hope for the best? What do you expect to see on that side?
- [51:31]
Kirk Herbstreit
That's, that's what I, I'm heading to Atlanta today. We meet with, with Al golden and Marcus on Saturday. And honestly, dude, that, that to me is. Is the big question, because the teams that have played man to man, especially in the postseason, it's been a Mike.
- [51:50]
Todd McShay
Tyson knockout in the first 90 seconds.
- [51:53]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah, I mean, it's over. Make your choice. Michael Spinks, Trevor Berbick, you know, whichever knockout you want, it's been that kind of deal. And here they are. They play, man, I think they're second in the nation is the percentage of man coverage that they play, and that's what they're good at. They're also really smart, they're really well coached. They see Jeremiah Smith. They know, you know, Ben Morrison's one of the top corners in, in. In the Nation. He's been out, you know, most of the year. This kid, Leonard Moore has stepped up. He's a true freshman.
- [52:30]
Todd McShay
I know.
- [52:32]
Kirk Herbstreit
Done amazing job. He's got great length at 6 2. Christian Gray and other highly touted corners on the other side. I think they're going to leave them. They're going to have to. Because here's the thing. If you say we're going to sit back, first of all, that's not your game. And now you're relying on your front. Without Mills, they've had some other injuries up front. Ohio State's offensive line has been good. I don't want to say they're dominant. They've had some injuries. Obviously, the loss to Remington winner and McLaughlin. They've kind of made do with what they have. But don't you want to kind of keep the game in front of you? Like if the goal is to win on defense and win on special teams, to me it's a major roll the dice if you do what you do and leave your corners on islands against Chip Kelly and these receivers. Because then it becomes a game of Will Howard gets the snap and it's a race from the pass rush whether you bring in pressure or can you get to Will Howard right before Jeremiah Smith separates, like it's. It's a race and that's a dangerous proposition. So I think, I think you got. You got to be a little bit of both, which I think you're going to play some man because you're going to have to because. But I think they're going to rely more on simulated pressure. They love the blitz, 34, 24 and 3. I mean, it's just. That's just the way they get pressure. Especially with Riley Mills out. They don't have a lot of pass rushers. They've got to rely on linebackers and nickels and safeties to be able to get home. So I think you just have to be aware where four is. Bracket him, have roll coverage towards him, help your corners out. Other times you're bringing people, you're just hoping you get to them before Will Howard can. Can have time to make the throw. Keep this in mind. Will Howard, in those first two games, it almost looked like seven on seven.
- [54:27]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [54:27]
Kirk Herbstreit
Just the receivers. Todd, you see he's back there. I mean, you could draw a three yard pocket almost every time he threw the football. And so I'm a huge Will Howard fan. But you get. Texas did a much better job. They had two sacks, they pressured him. It's a different game for Any quarterback. But, man, if Will's clean with those receivers and Chip Kelly, it's a problem. They. They've got to come up with ways. Al Golden's as good as there is at coming up with new wrinkles and creative ways to affect the offensive line and their communication. But if you sit back now, you're getting Trevion Henderson and Junkins running downhill, eventually, you know, you're going to have to say, I'd rather give up those yards on the ground than give a big one over the top. Let's take our chances. Let's make them go 10, 11, 12 plays and then let's try to get creative in the red zone and hope we can win in the red zone and, and do what we do in the red zone and make things have to go quicker for them. Tighter space and they kick field goals. I mean, that's what I would do if I were notre. And then rely on my offense to get maybe a short field. My special teams, I think that's the way they're going to have to do it. I just can't see them being a team that's. I don't want to say arrogant, but stubborn. Stubborn. That's a good. Stubborn enough to be like, we do what we do and yeah, hopefully it's good enough to win the national championship. I. I just. I think Marcus is a defensive guy, one of the better defensive minds. Al golden, you got two really almost savants on that side of the ball that have had nine days to say, we're not doing that. Let's be smart. Let's be smart. You know, let's pick our spots. That's my guess. Without talking to him. I think that's. That'll be the approach.
- [56:24]
Todd McShay
We could do this all day, man. Yeah, I. I love it. I. You gotta. You got a plane to catch. You got to get to Atlanta. And I just, Just always love, you know, cutting it up and talking ball with you, so we appreciate your time. The whole world will be watching. We'll. We'll be watching as well. I'll probably be texting you and annoying you while you're in the booth.
- [56:43]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah, and I hit you right back, too.
- [56:46]
Todd McShay
Men. I've never seen anything like it. You know, like, occasionally I try not to bug people because I've been in, you know, in that role, but if I've got something that's, like, driving me crazy in, like, three seconds later, he'll have just finished his sentence. How do you do it? Did you see 17 on that?
- [57:00]
Kirk Herbstreit
That's hilarious. I'm counting on some texts from you. Night.
- [57:05]
Todd McShay
You know I will. Yeah, I will, brother. I appreciate you and everything I've said. You know, when we started this thing off, I, I, I couldn't be more appreciative of your support throughout and for what you do for this game and look forward to talking to you soon and, and agree with you. I'd love, love to have our paths crossed and work with you again soon.
- [57:22]
Kirk Herbstreit
Absolutely, man. That's all right. Let's stay, stay connected, and anytime you guys need me, happy to hop on.
- [57:28]
Todd McShay
All right, perfect. I'm sure we'll be calling you around the draft. We'll talk to you soon.
- [57:31]
Kirk Herbstreit
All right, guys, Take care.
- [57:34]
Todd McShay
He's the best, isn't he? I mean, there's, there's a reason that he's, that he's in the position he's in. And we all take, we all take our beatings in this role for all of our takes. And, you know, people in Athens hate me for when I say certain thing about Carson Beck, so, like, yeah, everyone takes, everyone takes their hits. But I think it's important for everyone to realize, like, truly, like, I, I've had the privilege of being behind the scenes with this man and seeing, like, there is no agenda outside of how do we preserve this great game that we all love. And so you may not like his approach sometimes you may be a Florida State fan or a fan of a certain conference or a fan of whatever, and, and like, and yeah, the lunatic fringe is always going to yell the loudest because they need to be heard. And, and, but like, at the end of the day, the people who, who are empowered with the, this, these positions, all you can hope for is that they're trying to do the best that they can and they're representing the coaches, the people who are in the weeds with these young men every day. And that's what Kirk does. So I've always had an unbelievable appreciation for what he does. And, and, and also the game breakdown, like, he's getting on a plane right now, man. He's going to meet with Marcus, he's going to meet with Ryan. He's going to get the game, you know, and just to hear where his mindset is and kind of the questions he's going to ask these guys, I think was fascinating, too. All right, but we got some stuff we got to unload after that. I just quickly, before we get into our picks. So I'm just curious, like, after all this tape study, everything we put into this game, I know you And I are texting back and forth. We're kind of trying to figure out Ohio State's offense, Notre Dame's defense, schematically. What, like, what are you most hot on? What gets you amped up in terms of preparing to watch this game?
- [59:17]
Steve Levy
Well, it's been the year of the running back, right. You look at Boise State's Ashton Genty and the regular season he had was incredible. Then you look at Cam Scattered from Arizona State and that performance against Texas, and I think it's going to be the running backs again tonight. I mean, you look at Travion Henderson. I was surprised how much success Penn State had flanking Notre Dame's defense in that game last week. And Henderson's a burner. They can get outside and if they let him turn the corner and watch out, also, Notre Dame's going to blitz. They're going to bring pressure. Quinton Judkins, as good of a runner as he's been, that man has been tough as a blocker.
- [59:49]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [59:49]
Steve Levy
Step up and pass pro. Watch him take on guys. I get worried. He lowers his helmet a little bit and it makes for some big collisions. But he is tough. He will step up. He's going to be good in pass protection. Now on the other side of the ball, look, I know Notre Dame's beat up up front, and I know that that second level of that Ohio State defense has been incredible. And I'll include Kalem Dowd's in that in that piece because he's where he's lining up. It is not a good week to have a letdown for tackling for Ohio State. Jeremiah Love is a tough dude who will break tackles. You saw it in the game against Penn State. He will drag defenders into the end zone and keep an eye on Anas Williams, the running back out of the back, receiver out of the backfield for Notre Dame. That's something. One of the few weaknesses that we saw from Ohio State is their. Their inability to cover backside of the backfield in that Texas game. So he's a guy to keep on an eye on as well.
- [60:41]
Todd McShay
Yeah. You look at. I mean, Aeneas Williams is fascinating to me. All of a sudden he can't kind of freshman out of nowhere break, obviously, because. Because Love was. Was limited and had a pitch count. It seemed in that game they needed somebody else to step up. But the role he played, they learned something in a big moment. He can like five catches, 66 yards versus versus Penn State. In that game, he averaged just three carries. He's averaged three carries throughout the college playoff. Right. But he's got 11 catches in the three games. So like, how does that, how does that role play in. I'm fascinated with this and it's, and it kind of plays off of that. The offensive line for, for, for Notre Dame and both teams have had to endure injuries, but Ohio State has had more time to deal with it and, and they've got, you know, their backups in place and their, their movements around and we've talked about, you know, we've talked about all the different spots they've had to move to. But now you've got Anthony Knapp, who I think I want to say I read 8,818snaps at left tackle as a freshman for Notre Dame. And so like that's all they've known this year. And so now you've got Jagasaw coming in. Charles Jagasaw, he played some guard in this game, but he was the start. He was going to be the starting left tackle had he not gotten dinged up in the preseason was kind of the way it was tracking. So I've heard talks that he's going to move out to left tackle and then what's going to happen with Spindler? Rocco Spindler, who's the right guard who's been dinged up on and off and, and, and was not in that didn't play much in that last game. So they've got some like very recent shifting and moving around. I don't want to call it a mass unit, but like, and you're going up against a defensive front and you heard Kirk just talk about it. We've talked about it for a couple weeks now. Like this defensive front went from a bunch of dudes who look like, you know, second, third round picks, good players, but wanting more to like getting more. It's been, you know what I mean? Like it's been awesome watching this front. So everything you kind of hope. I, I hope the JTT become. I hope Jack, Captain Jack becomes a little more ferocious and, and violent. I hope that, that we see a little more out of Ty Leak on the inside and consistent like just like urgency. But you got four guys that are top hundred picks and, and rising. Ty Hamilton being the fourth against that beat up front and the things that jump out to me, Notre Dame's run game now mind you, with that offensive line for the most part intact. They've, they've found levels of, of of success throughout the year. A M. Good run defense. Louisville actually a good run defense. Indiana this, not the dudes, but the discipline, the Gap sound like being in the right space. Georgia, Penn State like this. But all of a sudden now this is the best run defense that they're going to face. And not only is it the best run defense, it's strength versus strength. It's also a four man pressure. And if you look back, if you look back at Riley Leonard and I know so much about this, so much of this game is going to be the three headed monster running back Riley Leonard, you know, running the option, creating, giving a numbers advantage, a plus one in the run game, all that. But there are going to be times where he's going to drop back and throw and you are going to want to take advantage of the one weak spot we just talked about with Kirk. Those corners when, when you can isolate them on an island and challenge them athletically, whether it's sharp incoming routes or, or drags or post corner, you know, like there are ways to exploit the tightness that they have in their hips. Okay, just to break it down. But is Riley Leonard going to have time and be successful? His numbers are so vastly different. I went and looked it up. We're talking like top 20 in the nation in terms of passing efficiency when, when clean, when he has a clean pocket versus like 86, 94, like when you're comparing front four. And the worst of it is the front four pressure as it always is for quarterbacks.
- [64:58]
Steve Levy
Right.
- [64:59]
Todd McShay
Because that means they still got seven in coverage. So that offensive line is going to be a major part of this, of this Notre Dame team. Can they hold up against that front four that is playing its best ball of the year?
- [65:12]
Steve Levy
Yeah, we'll see. I mean I, I have, I have serious doubts. I mean one of the things you talk about with these guys, getting theirs. I remember talking about loving the Ohio State edge guys but wondering if any of them were, you know, those, those closers, those game closers didn't get that sack at the end of the game. And I think Sawyer kind of answered that last week for everyone the way he ended that game. So they are on an absolute tear and it's bad timing for Notre Dame to get to have some injuries up front.
- [65:38]
Todd McShay
We're taping this at 11:45 Eastern. Okay. AM on Thursday. I'm pulling up my FanDuel app right now. Okay. Logging in Ohio State, it's. Remember it started. Oh, look, look at you. Tucker beat me to it. But, but I am glad I pulled this up just to make sure nothing changed because this line has changed. When we came off the, the, the Cotton bowl on Friday night it was. We asked the line. I was kind of blown away. It was nine and a half. Remember we did. We got everyone in the community the live chat during our YouTube show. Loved. Like everyone was getting involved, giving their prediction what they thought. A couple guys, I had to call out absolute cheats. But I love it. Competitive edge. Everyone's looking for it. They knew the line, but jumped in like they had the answer, which I get. But it was nine and a half. I said to you at the time, if I had to guess, if I, if I didn't know the line, if I was trying to be honest, I thought it was gonna be like seven and a eight. It's down to eight and a half now. Okay, so Ohio State minus eight and a half, minus 375 on the money line. And then the over unders 46 and a half percentage of M. Look how even this is men. And I've told everyone, everyone who's. Who's been a, a part of the audience here on the show.
- [66:55]
Steve Levy
Wow.
- [66:57]
Todd McShay
Like, handicapping is its own entity. And unfortunately it is so separate. Like, some of the worst gamblers, some of the worst handicappers, I should say in the world, are guys who just can evaluate football at a high level. I've sat there on desks with coaches and like the amount of terrible picks given the unbelievable amount of football knowledge they have. It's two different worlds. And so I like the line is based off of what the public's going to do. And so often this year we've, We've picked huge winners because it's like 78 of the. The early tickets. And that's the. The public before the Sharps come in and kind of move the line. It's 78 on one side, 82 on one side. They got this number right. Right now look in the bottom left of this graphic. 52% is on Notre Dame for 52 of the money. And I actually always go off of the. Of the, the bets the tickets placed. 51. I think it's 51 Notre Dame because the tickets, it's usually like a lot of guys and people that aren't the best, you know, prognosticators in the world and that like the money can be shifted sometimes by, by the, by the sharps and the big. The big bets. So it is dead even. So with all, all that nonsense as a backdrop, who you got here? Mensch? Eight and a half.
- [68:21]
Steve Levy
Look, I wanted to say this really quickly. Notre Dame head coach Marcus Freeman just turned 39 years old, and I think he's got. I mean, we've already kind of hit on it. He's got a super.
- [68:30]
Todd McShay
I already fear a butt here.
- [68:32]
Steve Levy
The butt is coming. I just want to give you guys.
- [68:35]
Todd McShay
Please do. I'm sorry.
- [68:36]
Steve Levy
I love what he's doing and I think he's going to have his team ready for this. I just think Notre Dame needs to continue to build off what he's already doing. I just don't think they're there yet. And for that reason, I think that Ohio State covers and I also think I'm gonna throw this out here. Will Howard's your MVP in this game.
- [68:55]
Todd McShay
Ooh. I don't think you can make that play on FanDuel, but I like it.
- [69:00]
Steve Levy
I just throw it out there.
- [69:01]
Todd McShay
I can see that. I could see that against that man, coverage, defense. I think they'll be smart. I, I think what Kirk, Kirk was saying, I think there. It won't be a lot of zone or they won't like change what they do, but they'll. They'll be a little more cautious and, and smart about handling it than, than. Let's say Tennessee was stubborn and kind of in your face with it. And that backfired fast. I'm the same with you and I hate this. My best picks all year have been when I've, I've, I've gone against you. I've seen something in the line. I've seen something in the tickets placed. I've seen. I, I got nothing here outside of so far in this college football playoff. The, the favorites have been are 8 and 2 against the spread, 9 and 1 outright. It has been a. Not predictable, I don't want to say, but like kind of predictable in terms of the outcomes of these games. And I, it's. I can envision, like you said, drag him in the deep water, get it, turn it into a. A mud slinging fight. Like, make it gross, make it uncomfortable, all those things. I can envision a scenario in which Notre Dame does and if they do so we're going to be watching like, God, this game sucks. This is boring. You know what I mean? Like, we've seen it the last couple times. Notre Dame, oh man, like, and then things will pick up and it'll be a great finish. I can see that happening. Special teams, as you said, like mixing something unexpected, something insane that you're like, what just happened? Right. I can see it. But I also, I just don't see the matchups and I think the injuries. I just wonder. I question how love is going to be Jeremiah Love. Is he going to be 100%? Will he hold up for four quarters? And even if he does, the offensive line for Notre Dame just. There are enough. There are enough glaring concerns going into this from a matchup standpoint that I. I would go Ohio State. I also would go. And I put this on. On X. I posted this on X for FanDuel. FanDuel has options where you can. I mean, you can play anything. You can. You know, as. As. As. Who was it? Barry? Remember. Remember back at Richmond, we had a. A tutor who would. We had like the freshman.
- [71:21]
Steve Levy
No, not Bar.
- [71:22]
Todd McShay
Not Barry. Not Barry. Barry. Barry Barnum.
- [71:26]
Steve Levy
Yeah.
- [71:26]
Todd McShay
He was like our. Our. Our after practice, the fresh. The freshmen have to go. And we would go to study hour, if you will. Right. And then with this guy, and he always used to. He used.
- [71:38]
Kirk Herbstreit
He used to say.
- [71:38]
Todd McShay
And I won't use the exact phrasing, phrasing, but, man, you can. You can bet on two monkeys humping if you want. You know, basically, that's what you could do with FanDuel. Like, there's so many different ways to do it, and I love that. I was just kind of flipping through the team totals. I think it was minus 158 at the time. Team totals, team total points in the game. I think Notre Dame under 20 and a half. I have a hard time seeing them get to 21 points in this game. So you. That's my two cents. You remember?
- [72:05]
Steve Levy
Yeah. Do you see the Dark Knight, that Batman movie? The Dark Knight movie with Bane.
- [72:09]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [72:09]
Steve Levy
Tom Hardy plays Bane. The thing. This is what I keep coming back to is I. I could see Notre Dame turning this into a brawl, and that's great. But there's a scene in that movie where. Where Batman's coming in to fight Bane and Batman turns off the lights and Bane in that deep voice is like, oh, you think the darkness is your ally?
- [72:26]
Todd McShay
I was.
- [72:27]
Steve Levy
I grew up in the darkness. I was born in the darkness. And we keep talking about Ohio State. We don't. We've talked about Jeremiah Smith being awesome. We always come back to one core thing about this run for Iowa State. Physical ass kickings. And it's like I said, you know, to Herb street, like, it. Be careful what you wish for, man. Because that Ohio State team's like, you want to turn this into a brawl? We're very comfortable turning this into a brawl.
- [72:51]
Todd McShay
And they weren't a month ago.
- [72:53]
Steve Levy
No, they weren't. They can win.
- [72:55]
Todd McShay
Something clicked.
- [72:56]
Steve Levy
Ohio State can win this game in a number of different ways. Notre Dame has to win it in one specific way and kind of has to thread the needle.
- [73:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah. What an awesome way to end the show. Like subscribe if you're watching this, just take a second, press a button, you know, subscribe for us. Like most importantly, come join us Monday night, I'm fired up. It's our last reaction show to the college football season, the College Football playoff national championship. It's been a wild ride and, and I cannot thank you like truly, the numbers have spiked. We were talking about like the, the people who are joining live at midnight 1am sticking with us all the, the, the live messaging. We'll bring it back up this week and we'll, we'll, we'll engage and have a lot of fun. Will be there. Five minutes on the game clock. Come join us please. Five minutes remaining. Have the TV on the background. Get on your device however you want to do it. Come join us on Monday night, January 20th national championship game. Five minutes remaining on the game clock. Mention I will be here. I won't be late. Stop yelling at me. I know, like I've been called McShay time my whole life. We'll be here on time. Five minutes left. Come join us. For today. We appreciate thank you Herbie, for joining us. Awesome stuff as we expected and have come to expect from Kirk and appreciate everyone watching and being a part of this show. Till next time, must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.