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The McShay Show
Bill Belichick as a College Coach, Todd’s Flash Mock, and CFP Prospect Rankings
01:21:18
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- [00:01]
Todd McShay
It's the McShay show presented by FanDuel. It's time for the first 12 team playoff and you can bet on all of the action with FanDuel. Just think about all the opportunities we're going to have to bet on the College Football Playoff. We're talking about different conferences, home games for certain teams, the three or four week run that you're going to have to play. There's so much to earn if you're betting with FanDuel this College Football Playoff season. Why we love FanDuel there's so many markets like spreads over unders, national championship futures and so much more. This app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gambling. Visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rgh-help.com Bill Belichick instantly advances the college football landscape. UNC, guided by Bill's program, should quickly become the standard in college football leadership. Also, my first 20, 25 top 250 NFL draft prospects overall is out. You can only get it here on the McShay Show.
- [01:31]
Steve Mensch
I can't wait to tear this thing apart, man.
- [01:33]
Todd McShay
I'm sure you will also apply it though to the College Football Playoff. Which teams have the most talent? Which teams are a little bit restricted by the prospects that they have. Then we'll walk through the top prospects in this class, take a look at the top 10 overall. Maybe go beyond it's bowl season in College Football Week, 15 in the NFL and how many days left until the NFL Draft? 133 meant you good?
- [01:59]
Steve Mensch
I'm good.
- [02:00]
Todd McShay
Mr. Director, strike up the band please. I've gotten a no go Belichick a little bit over the years. Okay. I want to say almost more indirectly than directly. I'm not going to overstate my relationship with Bill. One of the first dinners I had Gary Horton, who started both of us really in this business. Former NFL scout, worked with Bill Belichick at the Cleveland Browns, worked with Mike Lombardi at the Cleveland Browns. I went out to dinner with with Bill and with Scott P. And kind of got a an understanding of how Bill operates. I've talked about it before. It was the most awkward dinner I'd have ever Been to for the first half hour because we were trying to have small talk and Bill does not do small talk. The second we transitioned to two football talk. He was the most engaging, interesting conversation I've ever had in football, to be honest. To that point. I look at also kind of the connections, obviously. I spent a lot of summers on Nantucket. He was on Nantucket. A lot of the same people I knew going golfing, seeing him and his. And his lady friend riding bikes by like all of that, but more indirectly, right? Like Jim Nagy we worked with. He's the senior executive or the executive director, I should say, at the Senior bowl. Went from working with us to the New England Patriots and worked there. So a lot of stories and insight into the operation, if you will. Sean Gustas, who we played with at Richmond, worked for him. I can remember seeing Sean after about the first eight months of working for Bill and the stories of sleeping inside the office and the bags under his eyes. And I was worried about. I was worried about Sean. Keith Kidd we worked with. He also worked with Bill Belichick for a long time. Mike Lombardi, very close relationship to our guy, Gary Horton. Gotten to know Mike very well over the years. You know, text with him on and off all the time. Mark Magda, who we played with at Richmond, played for Bill. Teddy Brusky, who I've become really good friends with on a personal level and obviously professionally at espn, has some stories and insight into Bill that very few people have. Okay. So with that as kind of the backdrop, I feel like I understand Bill and his process and what makes him tick to a certain degree. Okay. So when I hear that Belichick reportedly has a long list of demands when he takes this job at UNC, including a 400 page document calling for a new coaching and recruitment staff and process, it does not surprise me a bit. He also demanded that his son be a part of it. There were early reports that he automatically will get the job when Bill decides to step down. Apparently Bruce Feldman has come out and said that is not necessarily the case. So we'll find out more reporting on that. Bill is 72 years old, okay. And we can sit here and we can talk about, well, Mac, they just got rid of someone in their early 70s and Mac Brown. And is this the right long term decision for Uncle. I'm going to argue against that. I look at him. Bill's a football historian, okay? He really is. He is driven by the history of football. He has an appreciation that I would say that I don't know that anyone else that worked in the NFL has ever truly had. And so when you take into consideration that Mike Shull is the only one of the only Don Shul, I should say not Mike, his son, Don Shul is the only one ahead of Bill Belichick on the combined win list in the NFL and that in maybe one or two seasons back in the NFL, he could become the winningest head coach in NFL history. There's a lot of things that come to mind. The first is, were there opportunities there and, and when he started, when he went on the McAfee show and, and, and confirmed that he was talking to unc, was there a window there where he was looking for an NFL team to come racing out and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, come right. So we can, we can analyze all of that. But I also, for me, and I'm curious to see what. What your reaction was. But for me, when he, at this point in his career, albeit maybe the NFL teams were not banging down his door, but when weighing chasing the record and being number one on that list ahead of Don Shula versus other personal goals at this point in his life, not his career, but in his life, he chose this. He could have said no. He could have pushed him off. He could have waited. He could have negotiated with NFL teams, but he chose to take this job. Okay. I think it lines up with his sensibilities where he is in his life at this point. Both of his parents were teachers. Dad, college football coach, Navy, grew up unc. I think I read a report like some of his first words out of his mouth that he hated Duke. Right. The Blue Devils. So I think this is an opportunity when he kind of weighed where he is in life and everything that he's trying to accomplish now at the. Let's say, in the. The back nine, if you will. I think this is an opportunity for Bill Belichick to pay it back. First and foremost, he, as he's a historian, I also think his appreciation for football and what it has brought to his life and his love for the game. This is an opportunity after doing at the highest level and truly being regarded as the greatest NFL coach of all time. This is a chance for him now. It's not about. He also wants to be known as one of the great college. He's 72. It's not about that. It's about paying it back. Developing young men showing in. When we're in an intersection in college football where we're hearing about general managers and personnel departments, Nils transfer portals being Free agency, all of these things. I think he's looking at this and saying, we have a program and it's documented in these 400 pages that can apply to today's college football and we can change the standard and the operation in college football and take it to another level, advance it. What do you think?
- [08:20]
Steve Mensch
I am surprised, but not. I shouldn't be stunned. I don't think. I think we never assume, right. How many times you heard that in your life. Never assume. And the assumption I had was that he was going to go for the record, that he wanted that record, that he had to have that record, that Bill Belichick is the most competitive human being on the planet, maybe, and he just, come hell or high water, he was going to go for that record. But he never said that. I don't think I've never heard him say that in an interview and say that that was the most important thing to him. And I think you're right. I think that he evaluated. And again, what opportunities was he going to have at the NFL level? We don't know. That is an interesting thing. And I think that people are going to dig in there. I don't know if we'll ever know the answer to that. But looking at it, it does make a lot of sense. Like him going back and being a te. Like if you read about his book, about his father, like him being a teacher, him being in that area of the country, I think the mid Atlantic, he loves that area of the country. I think you. It's a perfect storm of what college football programs are becoming. I'm after reading about this program and how it's going to be a pro program that gets kids ready to go to the NFL. If you're a kid, you know, five star, and you're thinking, man, who's going to get me more ready for the NFL than this guy? I mean there's some exciting stuff in there about that. On the flip side, the one thing I do worry about, and you saw Brady talk about this, is how is his recruiting bedside manner? How is he when he's going into the living room?
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Todd McShay
That's a good phrase, you know what I mean?
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Steve Mensch
Like how is he gonna do in that sense? Are kids going to be able to relate? You know, it's. We're talking about 18 to 22 year old kids, you know, roughly how do they relate to the 70 year old guy? You know, you know, our, our generation no knows what Belichick is. And these kids, their parents are going to be telling him this guy's a legend. You want to go play for him. But how much do they relate to him?
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Todd McShay
And more so 16, 16, 17 year olds when it comes to recruiting.
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Steve Mensch
Right. So it's. I'm fascinated by the whole thing. I mean, look, it's going to be so much fun in, in interesting, for lack of a better way of saying it, to watch how this unfolds.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. Yes. Just the thought of like Belichick versus Dabo, like there's, I don't know, it's just like.
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Steve Mensch
Yeah. All of a sudden swinging him, swinging the whistle on the Carolina blue on the practice field. Yeah. It's going to be fun to watch.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. Like ornery, ornery halftime, you know, interviews with like Molly McGrath. You know what I mean? Like that. I mean it's going to be pure entertainment, that aspect. But from a functionality standpoint, he's not going to be doing tick tock videos and all that stuff. Like I don't see. Maybe. I doubt it. Yeah, no, no, he's going to do it his way. He's going to do it his way and it'll be fascinating to see if his way will work. I believe he, he will have success and, and I think, I think because of where we are. I think. So here's the deal. Like I've told you before, text messages and calls and conversations with coaches I've had in the last like four or five years has been very different. You know, when, when you look at college coaches that a lot of guys that are have either left for the NFL or have an eye on leaving for the NFL in college because of all this madness in college football. Bill's always been an against the grain guy.
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Steve Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
You know, I'll never forget that first meeting when I told you the dinner that I had with Belichick and Peoli, he didn't want to talk. And I think it was Washington that year. Not surprising with like signing all these free agency free agents and all that. He wanted the mid level guys that fit his system, guys that were hungry, guys that were worried about feeding his, their family. And that's how he was going to build that thing. And he was perfectly fine being 500 that first year because he wanted to bring in people to fit his program. Humans, individuals that were hungry, that would accept his coaching, would accept his level of detail. And that's where it started. Now Brady took it to another level. There's no question we can argue what he would be without Brady and everyone, all my friends here in New England do all the time, but we're not here for that today. But my point is, I think he sees a window now where you got a lot of colleges kind of scrambling, trying to catch up to this new system, if you will, in place in college football. He sees as an opera, a competitive advantage. Wait a second. I've been doing this for 40 years or whatever. I don't know how long he's been in the league, but decades. I've been doing this for decades. It's basically the same. Not the same. Very similar now to the NFL. We have free agency. We have, we have Sal. I mean, you heard him on McAfee. I was watching that, that interview. We have a salary cap. You have free agency. We treat it the same way. It's going to be a business, right? And there's going to, I promise you this, he's going to get a lot of great recruits, four stars, five stars. He's going to, he's also going to lose. He's also going to lose a handful of them, right? That's.
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Steve Mensch
That's part of the business. I do think I'll say this in terms of, make no mistake about this. He's not going to be out of touch and get to, into North Carolina and say to himself, like, wait, how does this work? This is a man that reads and studies every aspect of every rule of every regulation. He will get to North Carolina and know exactly what he can do, exactly what he can't do, and where he can exploit where other people may be behind him. That's what's interesting about this to me is you, you make no mistake about this. Belichick knows exactly what he's doing going into this. This is who he has been his entire career.
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Todd McShay
I've already seen, I just saw a post on X a few minutes before we came on that Mike Lombardi is Vision Network. Put out a, you know, a press release, if you will, or a, you know, a message that Lombardi is leaving Vision Network. He's going to work with Bill. They're going to run this thing absolutely like a pro personnel department. There's going to be a salary cap person. There's going to be a director of personnel. There's going, you know, there's going to be a general manager that he works in lockstep with. They're going to have talent evaluators there just like they had college scouts. They're going to have. I'm sure they'll regionalize it. They'll. I mean, it will be run like an NFL personnel department, and we'll see But I know this wins, losses, longevity of his career at UNC college football as we wake up this morning is instantly and by a large percentage more interesting than it was a couple days ago. True.
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Steve Mensch
Zero question. Yeah, I mean there's no question. I hope he wins.
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Todd McShay
We've lost Nick Saban, we lost Jim Harbaugh. We've lost some characters in college football you're telling like every single week. I don't care if they're who they're playing. I don't care if they're playing Wake Forest. Like it's still you. It's must see TV at least for the first year to see how this thing plays out. So it's a better story.
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Steve Mensch
Wins. I hope he wins because it's a better story. The idea of him like sticking it to craft all the drama of that, you know, it just in in North Carolina, those uniforms, the that school, I mean if he wins it's, it's going to be all the better story. But it's regardless I, you know, I can't wait to see what happens. I mean to your point, it's more interesting today than it was yesterday. Did you think it was going to happen when you saw the report? I thought this was like eh, that's kind of a cool story. But there's no way he takes the.
- [15:49]
Todd McShay
Job after I honestly I was skeptical like everybody else and then I watched the McAfee interview and some to it he's I could tell there he put the he said in capital letters if I f I could tell there he was going to do this but only if an NFL team didn't come banging down his door at the last. Yeah, it was I want to do this but I'm still, I'm still going to answer the knock if it comes and I also and I don't want to, we don't need to get in. This isn't a coaching show and NFL, you know, the carousel and coaching carousel and hot seat like that's just not what we're here for. But I also, I think the landscape has changed so much and I think there's so much emphasis on finding an offensive coach that can come in and develop young quarterbacks. And almost all these teams that we're looking at who have fired or are rumored to be, you know, heading down that road of firing their head coach, they've got a young quarterback, almost all of them. And so I think that there was hesitation from NFL teams. Is this the guy we saw like the Matt Patricia Joe Judge debacle in New England, you know, with Mac Jones when they had a coordinator year one with, with McDaniels and, and Josh McDaniels before he went and took a head coaching job. Mac Jones had like what, a 10 win season his rookie year.
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Steve Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And then all of a sudden Joe Judge and Matt Patricia and it's a disaster. And Mac Jones hasn't been the same since. So anyway, it's just, it's, it's fascinating. I don't know.
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Steve Mensch
It's a great story.
- [17:26]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it is. All right. I mentioned it in the open top 250 is out. And as of right now, the only place you can find my, my draft rankings, if you have any interest in it, is right here on the McShay Show. Right. And so we're not. It would be the worst viewing experience and listening experience of all time if we sat here and went through all 250 prospects that I've now ran. It would be even worse if we did it by, by college or by, like, it's just. No, thank you. Not. None of us are here for that, including and especially us. But I did this exercise and it started in the summer as you and I do, starting watching tape. Create a top 100 build from that. And I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that I have all the answers. This is going to be the, these are going to be the rankings that, that we talk about in April when we put our final board out there. But I always reference our rankings as air traffic control. That's how I visualize it in my head. And the, In May and June and July we start and we're just, we're, we're getting the flight patterns out there. We're. We're getting all these planes to take off and there's over a thousand planes taking off, if you will. Referencing NFL draft prospects right now, at this point, you'd think we're getting ready to land all of them. It's not the case. And it's not just because where we are in the process and the tape is the vast majority of the evaluation because we haven't had the time to go through all 250 players and watch a minimum of four tapes, which is our standard. Okay, but we've watched enough tape to this point, talked to enough people in the league. I've talked to enough scouts who have been on the road to put together a list that I feel good about that at least. I feel like we're, we're mid flight. Everyone's heading in the direction everyone knows when they're landing. Everyone has reached, you know, altitude for the, for their flight. And so we're. Everything's kind of flying in the right direction with that as the backdrop. I think it's important we'll get to the top 10. And we can debate that and talk about kind of the top prospects in this class. But here we are. We get the College Football Playoff coming in just over, over a week. And so I want to break these down, these prospects in the top 250. And this is why I did it. I always used to do this at the ESPN before bowl season. And you would see, would run on the tracker, the scout sync, you know, these five prospects are ranked in the top 200. Top 250. And so I'm used to this process, and so applying it now to the College Football Playoff is even more fun. Right? So let's take a look real quickly in terms of the most NFL draft prospects that are included in my top 250 by the teams that are in the College Football Playoff. And we'll go most to least here. First off, not a big surprise. Ohio State with 15. And again, this doesn't include sophomores that aren't eligible or freshmen that aren't eligible. And for each of these teams, like, there are some teams like Tennessee that have a lot of prospects, but they're, they're not eligible yet. You know, a lot of these teams, there's younger guys on their roster. Ohio State even, for example, you got a wide receiver who could be a top three pick in 2027, Smith. And you got a safety, Caleb Downs, we've talked about all season long, arguably the best defensive player in college football. They're not included here either. But Ohio State did bring with that $20 million roster a lot of guys back that typically in years past would have gone on and played in the NFL. Right. So they have 15 top 250 draft prospects, the most of any team in the College Football Playoff. Just behind them, though, three other schools, not surprising. And I know the seeding is different, but the rankings. These are four of the top ranked teams in the College Football Playoff by the committee, Ohio State with 15, Georgia with 14, Texas with 12, and Oregon with 11. Does that surprise you at all?
- [21:16]
Steve Mensch
No. I mean, you see it on the tape there. The talent is evident. It jumps out when you watch the tape. And these are, you know, these are the blue bloods of the, of the, of college football. So it's, it's not surprising at all.
- [21:27]
Todd McShay
So I think the highest ranked team, as I'M looking at it right now. The highest ranked team that's not on that list would be Penn State. Yeah, they were ranked 4.
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Steve Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
And they're not on that list. But they're in that next tier of schools. They're at the top. Penn State with seven prospects behind.
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Steve Mensch
Something.
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Todd McShay
Go ahead.
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Steve Mensch
Really quickly. People might think that Ohio, like Ohio State hasn't played that well. You know, they just lost to Michigan. Why do they have 15, two names that like I just want to mention really quickly. I think the two guys that are hurt, that are two of their better prospects are hurt and that's a big reason why they're maybe not playing to the level that they could be playing. And that's the tackle Josh Simmons, who I went back and watched and I am convinced if he checks out medically, I think he's going to be the first tackle off the board. I really think he's that good.
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Todd McShay
I love when you throw stuff out like that.
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Steve Mensch
Yeah. So he's someone to keep an eye on. And the other guy is Seth McLaughlin who is the center. Not. I think he could sneak in today. You have him day three, early day three. I think he'd sneak into day two. Do you remember who I, you know all these players. I lost track of something. You know who he, he was the Alabama center last year who couldn't snap. That was Seth McLaughlin. He was the guy who had all the bad snaps and was killing Alabama last year. Goes to Ohio State. They said it's something to do with the cadence. I don't know. Looks like a different center now. I do wonder if teams are going to look at those two years and say maybe this guy's a guardian. But watch his tape, man. He is really, really good in terms of tape. I think he would be a day two. Those are two guys that are out. Those are two guys that are lost.
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Todd McShay
You're jumping ahead of us here.
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Steve Mensch
So yeah, sorry, go ahead.
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Todd McShay
But I appreciate it and we'll get to that. And it's critical. Simmons and I want to get into the matchups against, against Tennessee and then, and then if they, you know, both teams, if they win against Oregon, but again Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, the three teams with double digit draft prospects. In our top 250. In my top 250. I have to separate them because you have, you have your own work that you're doing for the ESPN draft tracker. Penn State with seven. Okay. Then you've got Indiana with six and then three other schools with five. Notre Dame, Clemson, Tennessee. Okay. Not surprising. The draft prospects, the teams with the fewest draft prospects are the ones that were conference champions and got bumped up to in their seating for the. For the most part outside of. Yeah, well, yes, no, SMU was not. But Boise State, SMU we thought for a while would represent as the ACC champion, but lost to Clemson. Still still got in. Boise State and SMU both have two and Arizona State just has one. Not surprisingly. Cam Scattaboo. So that's the backdrop on all of this. That's kind of preface all this where the talent is. And I think it's important to know because if you go and track, I think almost every single year the national champion is up there in the top two or three in terms of draft draft talent.
- [24:22]
Steve Mensch
Makes sense.
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Todd McShay
When Clemson was. Was making a run and won a couple national champions, they were right up there with the Alabamas and the ahead of Georgia and all of the other schools. Georgia like record setting draft talent, you know, in the. And what was it, 2021 was like the best. Yeah. Michigan last year loaded. Okay. Florida with Urban Meyer loaded. The only time I can ever remember, the only time I can remember a national champion where I went to their pro day and I was like, oof. They had two players and everybody else was like seventh round free agents. And it was kind of an ugly pro day. It was Cam Newton and remember Farley the orphan?
- [25:06]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, Nick Farley.
- [25:07]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah. Nick Farley the defensive tackle. Both first rounders. Other than that there was like not like no talent to be found. That was the only time I can remember where they weren't among the top two or three in terms of NFL draft talent. So that in mind Tennessee, Ohio State when you look at the prospects.
- [25:26]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
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Todd McShay
I think offensive line for Ohio State. Going back to the conversation you just started prematurely, what else would be right versus Tennessee's defensive line we've talked about all season long. It's. It goes well beyond just the three draft prospects for Tennessee. James Pierce Jr. Who's I've got ranked 14 overall and what's shaping up to be a very good edge class interior defensive lineman Omari Thomas at 116 overall and Omar Norman Lott at 160 overall all in the all grades equivalent to the first four rounds. Okay. That defensive line and then beyond we've talked about like what did they say? Eight or nine defensive tackles that they rotate and then another six guys at edge.
- [26:14]
Steve Mensch
There's a defensive tackle that I think you're going to have. And again this, these are the kind of conversations just to be honest about this kind of behind the curtain thing, this is not a, you know, a gotcha moment or whatever. We have these conversations all the time, like you've got to check out this guy. Like you watch this guy. Well, did you see him? I think Bryson Eason, the defensive tackle, number 20, he may have another year of eligibility. He's been there for four years, so we'll see how that develops. But he was a dude who came in. He was a 255 pound linebacker and he's now a defensive tackle. He's got seven tackles for loss this year. Real disruptive guy. I mean he might be the, he might be their third defensive tackle taken in the draft. That's how good they are in the interior.
- [26:51]
Todd McShay
I'm, I'm fascinated because this team for Ohio State was built for this year. They, their best recruiting was to bring back a lot of these guys. Okay. When you look at Ty Lems, amica Abuka, we thought he was going to be in last year's draft class. JT the edge, Jack Sawyer, the edge. Thought both of them were coming out last year. Probably definitely day two prospects last year. Okay. Donovan Jackson, Travian Henderson comes back and is rotating like their best recruiting was to bring back their quote unquote free agents, their veteran guys. Right. So it was built for this year. And then I look at this matchup and Tennessee, I mean with, with Nico Imalia at quarterback who's a red shirt freshman, a lot of the young talent, they have their veteran running back. Dylan Sampson is that offense like he's the heartbeat. Nico can bring him to another level when he's playing like he has the last five games, but he is the heartbeat. He, we have him in an unbelievably like a ridiculously talented running back class at 14 with a fourth round grade. But I think in a lot of other years he'd be, he'd easily be in the top 10. Okay.
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Steve Mensch
We're gonna have great debate in that class. It's gonna be.
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Todd McShay
Oh my gosh. So anyway, my point is, you look at Tennessee with five draftable prospects and maybe it's six, maybe it's eight when it's all said and done. But there's a clear difference between 15 and even if it were eight for Tennessee. Okay.
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Steve Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And then you factor in their playing at home like this is Ryan Day's gotta have this one. And I've said like I, it might be short of a national, at least getting to a national championship and maybe winning a national championship where I think The Ryan Day Ohio State marriage lasts beyond this, you know, off season. So this is a game they absolutely have a, a clear cut talent advantage and they're playing at home.
- [28:47]
Steve Mensch
That to me, there are some matchups that are concerning. Right. There are some matchups on the interior of that offensive line versus that Tennessee defensive line. And then you have guy like James Pierce who is, I mean, he's a freak. I mean, if you watch his, did you watch his pick six against Iowa in the bowl game last year?
- [29:03]
Todd McShay
Yes. I mean, it's.
- [29:04]
Steve Mensch
You people are like, oh, he doesn't make enough plays. It's. I, I'm not buying it, man. He might have 20 sacks. When it's all said and done over the last two seasons, he's fine. I mean, this is not his pressure.
- [29:12]
Todd McShay
He, he's, I think he. Does he lead the SEC or he's up there in pressures. Like, it's not just about sec. And remember, he's not, when you're rotating six guys at edge, he's not playing the number of snaps that a lot of these other guys that are, that are close to the top in sacks.
- [29:26]
Steve Mensch
So Donovan Jackson's played well left tackle. But I mean, Abdul Carter did give him some problems. Abdul Carter from Penn State in that game give him some problems. And I do expect James Pierce will give him some problems. And when you're, when you're losing up front, things start to get neutralized. Right. Like they have the talent advantage that you know in so many other areas. But it's going to be interesting to see how that unfolds. So I think that Ohio State does have a talent advantage overall, but there's some, there's some weaknesses, some vulnerabilities that I'd be worried about if I was going to that game.
- [29:54]
Todd McShay
And we'll circle back in two weeks after the first round of the, of the College Football Playoff and talk about Oregon vs. Tennessee or Oregon vs. Ohio State and what those matchups look like as well. But again, just to remind folks, Oregon with 11 draft prospects and right up there in terms of the overall level of talent and honestly, some of the big risers in this draft class. Tez Johnson a wide receiver. Evan Stewart is, I wouldn't say riser, but is up there. Like having two wide receivers in a year where we've talked about it, it's the haves and have nots at wide receiver in college football have those guys and Terence Ferguson all in the top 75, plus James Jordan at running back. That's their advantage. And one of the fastest risers for me at least. And I don't necessarily hear this or see this elsewhere, I didn't think Dylan Gabriel was much of a prospect coming into the year. I thought there were a lot of. I saw that leaps and bounds as a prospect and I've got him now with a fourth round grade. I saw that. Yeah, I know you did. All right now, Clemson, Texas. Clemson. Five draft prospects in the top 250. Texas with 12. Not a. Not a big surprise. I just, I remember back in the day with, with Clemson and yes, it was always the quarterback and they had desean Watson and Trevor Lawrence and they had wide, wide receivers like Higgins, T Higgins and D Hop like. But their defensive front, it was like year in and year out they were rolling dudes out there.
- [31:25]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [31:26]
Todd McShay
That's not the case this year. When I look at this, you got Barrett Carter at linebackers a day two grade and then you go to RJ Mickens at the safety position. But other than that there's not a lot of. And I know they're young and I know they've got some young dudes on the defensive front. I, I'm aware of that. So Clemson fans don't at me and go crazy mentions your guy to attack on this show. Yes. If you're an angry Clemson fan, take it Mench at. What is it? At Scouts inch. Yeah, at Scouts Inc. Mench. It's M U n C H just so you get it right. But that offensive line for Texas, Kelvin Banks, will he be back?
- [32:05]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [32:05]
Todd McShay
That's a question. But you still have Cameron Williams on the other side. I know he's been inconsistent with balance and those but my goodness, he's a big physical dude. You got D.J. campbell at guard, Jake Majors at center, all in the top 250. That to me is an area where I think Texas needs to take advantage.
- [32:25]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, I mean agree. How wild is it that your top Clemson player is 58th overall on your board right now? And I'm not sure he's going to go that early to be honest with you. I like Barrett Carter, but he's an off the ball linebacker that I think could easily sneak into the third round. I think there's other guys when you're looking at those two Alabama off the ball linebackers. So that to me that's interesting that that's the first guy on the list. But you're right, I mean Texas has. This is a differently built team. They, that offensive line, they have guys that maybe aren't going to be two tackles. I Think early round picks and then there are three interior guys will probably play in the NFL. I mean, that's a, that is a clear advantage for Texas. And that's something like you said, if you've been following Clemson for years, you might not expect that, but that is the case going into this game.
- [33:08]
Todd McShay
Connor, our producer, asked me for a. For something. They're doing it. FanDuel, Spotify, Ringer. I'm not sure exactly where it's going. I didn't feel very confident in it. I shouldn't say that I, I struggled with it. That's. That's a better way to put it. And I wasn't. Like some years I'm like, I'm dogged on like this. This team's gonna win the national champion. I, I picked Texas to win the national championship. In part, obviously, the talent that we're talking about, in part because they have the two quarterbacks, if necessary, should something happen. In part because I believe in Coach Sark and I think that there's more that they still have to unveil and they also don't have to play Georgia until a national championship. And we don't know that Georgia is going to get there with their quarter question mark with Carson, Beck and then. But finally the path. I think it's an advantage to play that first week and not to sit out for 24 days or whatever it is until the first game, like Oregon, Arizona State, Georgia and Boise State. I think getting a home game against a quality opponent in Clemson, not an elite opponent, an opponent that you should be, is an advantage. And then you play Arizona State. They should, by FanDuel standards, in terms of the spreads, by eye test, by everything out there, they should get to the semifinals. Like, it would be a massive disappointment if they don't. And then they're going to play Tennessee or Oregon, Ohio State, one of those three teams. So you got one huge challenge to get to the national championship. So I kind of bet on that. Just for whatever that's worth. All right, moving on. Indiana versus Notre Dame. Probably not the least amount of talent, but two teams that don't, that aren't in the double digits, this is the first one that we've, we've covered where neither team is in the double digits. Notre Dame, I think Notre Dame, when it's all said and done, will wind up having more than the five that I wound up giving him. I think there's a lot of three guys that I just haven't gotten to their tape. So, like, even call it eight if you Want, but Indiana at six. But mind you, Indiana coming into the year. I mean, I remember Pete family on like four or five, maybe six weeks into the season on college football on, on game day saying, you know, talking to NFL scouts, there's not one clear cut prospect. They may have two that are drafted. But compare that to like Georgia or Texas or Ohio State. When you're talking like literally 20 plus prospects for those schools that at least had to be evaluated with consideration for getting drafted. Indiana had like one or two at that point. Now I think guys have risen up and I think we've seen over the course of the year and remember a lot of transfers, first year starters in this system. We've seen positive trajectory. But still with Mikhail Kamara at edge, I've got him at 93 overall. So we're talking about like third round C.J. west, defensive tackle. I know you like him a lot. I put him as a ninth defensive tackle third round overall as well. So they're in that similar range. Elijah Surat, the wide receiver, I've got him at 145 overall. Tyson Lawton, even though he. Justice Ellison, they rotate, I think. I see, I've said it from the beginning, there's more juice in his game. Got him as a day three prospect. Keyshawn Williams, day three prospect at wide receiver and Curtis Rourke, day three prospect at quarterback. So you compare that to Notre Dame and the talent they have. What jumps out to you in terms of matchups and what we should be looking at?
- [36:37]
Steve Mensch
First of all, I think that that that matchup between that defensive front from Indiana and the offensive front from Notre Dame is going to be really interesting because I do have, I do like that Indiana defensive front. But I'll say this, I don't think they have the depth to handle it. I think it could be a game that starts slow for Notre Dame because early on Indiana's front gives them problems. But as that game develops, it's going to be, I think that Notre Dame's run game in the second half will eventually be what, what the difference is in that game. Also would say that Notre Dame's top prospect here, Benjamin Morrison, isn't even in this game because of a hip injury. The corner, really good player. But I love the matchup between Rourke Court, Curtis Rourke, the quarterback from Indiana and Xavier Watts, the safety from Notre Dame. I love the safety from Notre Dame, man. I just think he plays the ball really well. I think he's distinctive, he's got good size, he's physical. Rourke doesn't make a Lot of mistakes. What can they, how can they use Watts to kind of keep him off balance, mix up coverages, you know, change things post snap read? That's going to be a chess match. That'll be, you know, again it'll be that run game versus Indiana's front. But the second thing I'm looking for is the chess match between those two.
- [37:44]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I want to see Rourke in this game if pressured. You can't study that Ohio State tape. Remember that Ohio State tape the first series four man rushes, weren't getting pressure. And you would think Ohio State. Well, we're talking about Ty Leek, Williams draft pick. We're talking about jt, we're talking about Sawyer. Like these are all guys who are going to go in the first two days of the draft, but they're not an elite pass rushing defense in terms of their front four. But they dialed it up with just one more guy. And all of a sudden it was a long, sustained touchdown drive for Indiana on the first drive. From that point on, it was five man pressures. And Rourke was honestly irrelevant the rest of the game. He was, he was, he was completely ineffective. And so you can't watch, you can't study that tape. If you're Notre Dame's defensive staff and come to any other conclusion outside of, all right, our corners are gonna have to hold up. We're gonna have to really trust our safety and Watts to make good decisions and to be that, that deep third guy, you know, to prevent plays, which you can do. And, but, but we got to dial it up with pressure. And let's see, can Roark learn from those mistakes? Can they have a better, a better game plan for, I mean, just a better strategy for dealing with it. How are they going to adjust from what happened at Ohio State versus what they know is going to be the case against Notre Dame?
- [39:16]
Steve Mensch
I don't know. I don't. I like Notre Dame in that game.
- [39:19]
Todd McShay
That didn't sound very promising. All right, let's flip the switch. Penn, Penn State 7 draftable prospects, top 250, SMU 2. And again, this is another program. I think a lot of transfers, a lot of Miami transfers. I think there could be a couple more guys that wind up, you know, in that list when it's all said and done. Obviously their, their best player, Kevin Jennings, their, their quarterback, he's, you know, not, not on the radar yet. But Elijah Roberts, I have at 192 overall at the. As an edge. I think he's their best defensive lineman, but they're deep at defensive line. They're, they're, they can be frustrating when they get going in the defensive line. And then Burchard Smith on the other side of ball, running back. And I've already had him as that's my guy once and have talked about him and the difference making he can make. He's not big, he's not powerful, but he is a playmaker and catches the ball extremely. Former wide receiver. So going up against his Penn State defense with Jennings, a mobile quarterback, that Penn State defense that is loaded up front, starting with Abdul Carter, who could be the number three overall pick in the draft, they also, you know, they've got the two safeties in Winston Jr. And Reed, who Winston Jr. Has really risen this year. Got a third round early third round grade on him. There's talent on that defensive side and they're not even all draft prospects, but they're loaded up front defensively. But they're coming off that Oregon and we talked about Oregon and all the offensive talent they have. They're coming off an Oregon game where it was a shootout and they're not used to that. So I'm just curious to see SMU with that offense and the firepower that Jennings brings, what they're able to do against Penn State and most importantly, can they sustain it? You know.
- [41:02]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, you, you're a little lower on Denied Dennis Sutton than I am too, by the way. I think they have two edges that are going to give. SMU's got those big offensive tackles, but they're. And you know, to be honest, they're just not athletic and they're going to have some problems. They had problems against Clemson. If they had problems against Clemson, they're going to have some problems against that Penn State front. So. And again, Jalen Reed's the other safety that we want to hit on is he's a guy that can move around, he's instinctive, he can make some plays. I. Kevin Jennings is going to have to be the magician that he's capable of being, but it's going to take four quarters of him pulling a rabbit out of a hat for them to be, I think, competitive in that game.
- [41:43]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Yeah. I would argue this is the biggest talent difference in the first round matchups.
- [41:51]
Steve Mensch
I think so.
- [41:52]
Todd McShay
Truly, Notre Dame has higher level talent. They're more physical up front. They're bigger and stronger than Indiana, even though the numbers are kind of similar in terms of draft prospects. I see a talent difference there, but not to the level with Penn State versus smu. It's going to have to be speed. It's going to have to be Jennings playmaking. They're going to have to play a special game and do some things that they've, they've shown this year. But it's going to have to be their best game to even make this a four quarter battle, in my opinion.
- [42:25]
Steve Mensch
I agree.
- [42:25]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's a fun exercise. I mean, it's one thing that I feel like we can do that not a lot of just given the NFL draft and the amount of time and the tape we study and the rankings and everything else just to provide perspective. And does it mean that, you know, that Ohio State should win this whole thing because they have one more prospect than Georgia, which has two more prospects than, you know, than Texas, which has one more pro, you know, like that's not how it works. But history has shown us outside of that Cam Newton year with Auburn, history has shown that it's very likely one of those top four teams that I mentioned, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, Oregon is highly likely to win this national championship. It just, it's been proven year in and year out. And that Cam Newton thing was what, 15, 17 years ago. Whatever it was, it's been a long time.
- [43:16]
Steve Mensch
It's not always the X's and O's. Sometimes it's the Jimmy and Joe's.
- [43:19]
Todd McShay
Yeah, bud, we know that. The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. Keep your college football season going with a win on FanDuel, because right now new customers can kick off the season with 150 bucks in bonus bets. Just place any $5 bet and you'll get 150 bucks in bonus bets if you win. Use your bets on spreads, live bets, overs, unders, and so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sports book. Must be 21 or older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only $5. First deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com we're unveiling this top 250 in different pieces, right? I did want to get to the top 10 prospects overall and this is where I mentioned in the open and you cut me off that you're going to have fun. Have fun chopping away at, you know, Chopping wood when it comes to this and tearing me down, that's fine too. It's a different role for us, right? It's always been. All right, study the tape. Come up with your own rankings. Let's get on the call. Let's. Let's agree or agree to disagree. I mean, I can't tell just, just for review, if you're a listener or a viewer, just to take you behind the curtain for a minute. Mensch is an unbelievable soldier. Like, needs no credit, needs no on air. You know, his ego is just non existent when it comes to this. Okay. He's been unbelievably supportive and anyone who's watched the show now for a couple months, the wealth and the depth of knowledge he has is unparalleled. Okay? But every once in a while. Not every once in a while, like 20 prospects a year or so, he just sticks his feet in the sand, digs in hard, and he becomes a total pain in my ass on like, whether it's 15, 20, 25 prospects every year that I'm wrong. Fine. And it's always fine. Like, you can rank him wherever you want, but, like, we'll come back to this in three years.
- [45:44]
Steve Mensch
I, I will say I've matured a little bit because it used to be like I would call you and, and I would be upset that you would have a gu. Third that I thought should be late second or early third and you'd be like, dude, it's not that big. We're not that far off.
- [45:59]
Todd McShay
It's 11:30. We have a minor disagreement on this.
- [46:02]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Yeah. You five hours sleep.
- [46:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I've got a 68 grade on him. You got a 63. Like, what are we doing? So anyway, so this is different because mention if you don't know, he's. He's fueling the ESPN draft tracker. Still. Still, you know, doing the scout sync process. I'm obviously have moved on and this is solely for, for my, it's solely my rankings for these purposes for now. Okay. And things, things will change. We're excited about where this is all headed and have some exciting announcements in the, in the near future, hopefully. But for now, this is kind of how the process is going to work. And mentions Mensch has got his own deal. So when he, when the producer, when one. One of our great producers, Tucker, presents him with the top 10, he says, okay, hold on. As right before we came on the show, he's like, I haven't seen it. Hold on. Keep that graphic up for a minute. And I See him taking vigorous notes. So here's my top 10. Okay. And Mensch has taken a lot of notes on this, so we'll get to him quickly. Travis Hunter at number one. Here's the thing, I'll tell you from my tape study and then talking to people in the league, there's Travis Hunter is a clear cut best football player in this draft, okay? Period. Whether you want him at wide receiver, at cornerback or both, he's the number one player in this draft in terms of just all around football player and athlete. Will Johnson for most people I've talked to would be considered number two. Then it's kind of like this. I don't, I don't want to say a notch down because I've got 93 grades as you can see. But Travis Hunter's in a kind of a league of his own. I wouldn't want to say it's a huge gap between him and the next guy, but every team in the, in the league may view him a little bit differently what he's going to provide, but they view him as the top football player in this class. Then it's Will Johnson for a lot of teams and I think kind of in that same tier is Abdul Carter, the edge rusher from, from Penn State. I know men is not going to argue with Mason Graham at number four, may even have him higher and then still like Michael Williams, I wouldn't say is the player yet that he's going to be and you're gambling that he's going to develop into a more consistent player. But his talent level earns him a spot with a 93 grade in that second tier. And Ashton Ginty, if he wasn't a running back, might be talking about he and Travis Hunter is the best two football players in this draft. I've got those as the top six. Then a little slight notch below that we get into Jalen Walker, who's an off the ball linebacker, slash hybrid edge rusher. And I think for some teams that will decrease his value. I think for other teams that versatility and the ability to stay multiple with the same personnel will increase his or maximize his value. Calvin Banks Jr. Offensive tackle. We've got him as in the number one offensive tackle right now. But I'll be totally honest with you, there are some people I talked to in the league who believe it's Will Campbell. Mensch, you just talked about Josh Simmons, offensive tackle from Ohio State coming off the injury but talent wise may be the best in this class. And I've heard some scouts I'VE talked to echo that. I look down and to me, the most underrated player in this draft and not for me, as you can see. I put Josh Connerly at offensive tackle, number two, OT at number 10. Trying to make a statement. I learned from my boy Kuiper. If you want people to know how much you like him, make sure you emphasize that. And I did in this top 10. So the offensive tackles, I think throughout this process, the Senior bowl, the combine, the interviews, all the, the private workouts, I think that they will adjust a little bit. But those are kind of the big names that you need to know about. And then obviously Malachi Starks is in there at number nine. So Mensch, have at it, bud.
- [49:41]
Steve Mensch
I'm glad to see you have Genti so high. I think you. Because again, the temptation as a, as the positional value I have at five, I think you have him six. We don't have a lot of big differences. I will say two things or two names that really jumped out at me. Shador Sanders is definitely a top 10 player in this draft, in my opinion.
- [50:00]
Todd McShay
I like it.
- [50:01]
Steve Mensch
Got to get him in and I got him at 10. So I'm not saying that he's, you know, I don't know where you had him. Maybe.
- [50:06]
Todd McShay
Well, just so people understand, I'm looking at my list that goes beyond. I've got, I've go top three here. I've got. And it's important. Shador Sanders. I've got an 11 overall. Okay. Cam. Cam Ward, I have at 19 overall. And they're the only two quarterbacks in my top 32. Okay. I.
- [50:26]
Steve Mensch
The other one I would say is I have James pierce in at 9. I have him ahead of Jalen Walker. I love Jalen Walker. And I just went back and did this because I'm. Is he an off the ball linebacker? And can a guy that size, because he's short and light for an edge, can he be effective? Now when you go and you look and you see guys like Will McDonald's who's a light edge putting up big sack numbers and Nick Bonito from Denver putting up big sack numbers, that makes me a little more confident. But he's also short. And you know, Micah Per Parsons has, you know, he's taller but he has shorter arms. So is this guy going to be Micah Parsons or is he. I, I'm a little all over the place on Jaylen Walker. I'm not. I haven't a fully formed opinion about him to say that. I love his tape. I love what he can do. But I also have some concerns. And where ultimately he's going to fall is still a question mark for me. I feel more safe with James Pierce because he's. Even though he's like 2, at 245ish, he is a taller guy. He plays off the edge predominantly Walker moves over, all moves all around. So to me, I feel like he's a little safer. I'll say this too. I need to update my rankings and do this this weekend. I have Banks Jr. At 8. I don't think there's an offensive tackle who's a top 10 player this year. He's out. I think he's dropping. I think Simmons, even though I think he's going to be the top tackle, is going to move ahead of Banks in my next rankings. I don't think he's in the top 10. I think I've watched two tapes of Connelly. Full disclosure. I gotta watch more. I gotta lock in on him. I know he's. He's your guy. I don't see it yet. So I think this is a.
- [52:01]
Todd McShay
Keep watching a week.
- [52:02]
Steve Mensch
It's. I will. It's a weak tackle class. So to me, I don't. Which is crazy to think about. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have a tackle in the top 10 because you know, one of those guys is going to go there. I mean, history tells us that. The other thing I'll say is that I do not have Travis Hunter first overall. I have. Yeah. Yeah. Behind Travis Hunter, behind Abdul Carter and Mason Graham. Because it's not a mock. It's not a mock. It's a rank.
- [52:28]
Todd McShay
Michigan defensive tackles, always.
- [52:30]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [52:31]
Todd McShay
This is not a. A TV show with commercials and a heart out. This is the beauty of what we're doing here at the McShay Show. We have our like and I'm sure our producers are like, oh, here McShay goes again. Like we told them on Thursdays, we don't need an hour and 40 minute show, but we're here. Let's do it. Right?
- [52:49]
Steve Mensch
Let's do it. Yeah.
- [52:51]
Todd McShay
Flash mock. Flash mock. Let's do it. Quick. Mock draft, top five. We'll come out with a mock draft soon. A full 32. We're kind of waiting. We get the College Football Playoff and all the excitement, but let's just do a top five picks. You ready?
- [53:05]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [53:06]
Todd McShay
I always. I told you from the beginning, I'm. Every single week I'm gonna have. I'm gonna have the rankings right here in my notes right here.
- [53:13]
Steve Mensch
Okay.
- [53:13]
Todd McShay
We're gonna have the rankings that is currently constructed, and obviously the playoff teams will adjust. But for these purposes, for this flash mock, we're going to do a top five. Okay. Giants are sitting at number one, right? Raiders at number two. We just talked about the quarterbacks. We'll get back to this in a second. But what's fascinating is I don't have a quarterback in the top 10. Mensch has got Shador in the top 10. I've got my next one's. Cam Ward at 19, but there's Smoke, there's Fire. Okay, number three is New England. So Giants at 1, Raiders at 2, Patriots at 3, Panthers at 4 and Browns at 5. We would have thought about three, four weeks ago. The Panthers absolutely are taking a quarterback. That may be the best story in the NFL this year.
- [53:59]
Steve Mensch
Oh, it's awesome.
- [54:00]
Todd McShay
It's awesome just watching Bryce every single week get a little bit better and the confidence and the confidence of teammates in him and all. So. So I, I think when I look at this, the Giants quarterback need. Raiders quarterback need. Obvious. Patriots do not. Drake May continues to play really well, and I just love his future in New England. I truly do. Bryce Young, I think, has earned the spot.
- [54:23]
Steve Mensch
The.
- [54:24]
Todd McShay
The right to come back as the quarterback and to be developed. And Cleveland at five needs a quarterback. But. But is there one available there? All right, let's start with the Giants. Here's what I'm. I'm ready with my list, and our guys have. Have the music. I don't know what to make of it, because I talk to people in the league, and it's funny how it's. Sometimes I feel like people in the league know other organizations better than they know their own sometimes. But there seems to be a sentiment among people I've talked to that the Giants have a thing for Cam Ward.
- [55:01]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [55:02]
Todd McShay
Okay. But then again, like, is the GM going to be the gm? Is Brian Dable going to be the head coach? Right. Making the decisions.
- [55:11]
Steve Mensch
Who has a thing for him specifically? Is it the owner or is it.
- [55:15]
Todd McShay
You know, these conversations go.
- [55:17]
Steve Mensch
I know.
- [55:17]
Todd McShay
I keep here. I hear the Giants have a thing for camp. More like. Okay, so what the. Does that mean? Yeah, what does that mean? You know, like, and. And the people who. On the Giants who have a thing for them. If you're. If you're right, are they still going to be there in April when we. When we have this draft? But with that in mind. Okay. I think Shador Sanders is going to be a Las Vegas Raider.
- [55:43]
Steve Mensch
It's okay. So slot him In a two, slide.
- [55:46]
Todd McShay
Him in at two. And I keep going back to this though. If you're the. Remember, the Giants were on the other end of the last time we saw this was 20 years ago. The Roethlisberger Eli, excuse me, Rivers draft. Right. 20 years ago almost to the day when we come up on the 20, 25 draft, 20 years ago, the Giants were the ones were on the receiving end. Ernie, of course he right with, with, with Eli Manning and, and the trade that happened and the confusion that was that draft early on. What do you mean? The Chargers took him, but he's not going to be a chart. Like I, I just. So I just wonder if the roles are reversed a couple decades later. Right? And they're like, yeah, we know the Raiders want him, but we want Cam. But why don't we just take Shador at 1? And again, this is, this is if the draft was to be held today, if the Giants win a couple games, it doesn't matter. If the Raiders win a couple games, it doesn't matter. If the Giants win one game and the Raiders continue to lose, it won't matter. So the Raiders could be picking at one, but the Raiders win one or two down the stretch, they could have to trade up to go get them.
- [56:52]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [56:53]
Todd McShay
So instead of just giving him the. Giving the Raiders their guy, do you take Shador? Maybe your intel's wrong and they. They would be happier with Cam, but so do you just take your guy? If they truly. When it's all said and done. This is so premature. I know, but it's fun. It's just fun. Do you take Shador and Gamble even if you have a little bit higher grade on Cam on your intel and try to get it fleece the Raiders for a pick or more to. For your guy, or do you just take your guy?
- [57:25]
Steve Mensch
You take your guy. I mean, it's too much of a gamble. It's not. We're not looking at a prospect that I think again, I have Sanders, 10, you have 11. This is not a guy. We have one, two or three on our board. So the Raiders might love Shador, but how much they love Shador is a whole nother thing. And they're. And they have enough firepower to be like, look, we all know that Shador is not Andrew Luck. He's not the Andrew Luck prospect. He's not on that kind of a level. An elite prospect coming out. So I don't know.
- [57:52]
Todd McShay
And he would have been. He would have been the four. He would have been the fourth quarterback taken in this year's draft. 2024. Right. The fourth quarterback.
- [57:57]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. If this was a Caleb, Jane and Daniel situation or you preferred Jaden, but you knew Whoever was at 2 wanted, you know, wanted Caleb. So you just take Caleb and try to do that. It's a big gamble, man.
- [58:10]
Todd McShay
What do.
- [58:10]
Steve Mensch
You can't get caught with your pants down on this one. You just can't. Like, if you end up with a guy and stuff gets leaked all the time and they.
- [58:16]
Todd McShay
Will they really, you know, if this is the draft order, you know, the, like the, the very first thing that you're gonna hear in terms of draft buzz leaked from a. From a personnel department is that the Giants absolutely love Shadur Sanders. There's gonna be some little report like, hey, I'm not supposed to say this, but on the. You didn't hear. You didn't hear it from me. You didn't hear from draft. If the Giants love Shador. Right?
- [58:42]
Steve Mensch
Right. If you draft Shador and it comes out that you really want a can, but you were playing this game, what a nightmare that is inside your building where if you get. If you get stuck with Shador. And I don't want to say stuck with Shador because I thinking he's the better quarterback. But that being said, here's the other thing though.
- [58:56]
Todd McShay
Like, is Cam Ward. Is Cam War. Like when you study, is Cam Ward worth the number one overall pick or the number two? I like him a lot. I think he's got a lot of potential. But I.
- [59:11]
Steve Mensch
Good play.
- [59:11]
Todd McShay
He would have been the fifth round pick. If you merge these two classes together, 2025 and 2024, would he even be the fifth quarterback drafted last year?
- [59:21]
Steve Mensch
No. I think Penix and McCarthy probably would have gone ahead of him too.
- [59:25]
Todd McShay
At least there's a discussion. And Bo Nicks has turned out like Bo Nick could be offensive rookie of the year, you know what I mean? So there is a world like a personnel department could argue that Cam would be the seventh or eighth quarterback drafted. If you're mixing Shador and Cam into last year's class. Right, Right.
- [59:46]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [59:47]
Todd McShay
And I get the other first overall. Remind people, and this isn't to like dredge up excitement. I promise you this draft class is actually loaded late. First, second, third, fourth round. There's a ton of talent. I think part of it's the transfer portal guys coming in later. A lot of guys were utilizing the COVID year, an extra red shirt, all those things. There's a ton of like depth in this class. But this top 10, I read somewhere And I don't disagree. I read somewhere where scout came out and said, or personnel director said that, that Travis Hunter would be the only player in the top 10 of last year's draft. The old thing, this class, and I'm not saying I totally agree, but like, conceptually, like Will Johnson, Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, Mikkel Williams, Ashton Ginty, they're all awesome players. But in a usual draft, it's quarterbacks, edges, a stud wide receiver. This wide receiver class is terribly disappointing. So, all right, so now we've got the top two. So however it shakes out, let's put Cam Ward with the Giants, Shador Sanders with the Raiders. This is where it's fascinating to me. Okay.
- [61:07]
Steve Mensch
That'S not gonna get old.
- [61:09]
Todd McShay
Patriots are on the board at number three. They need an offensive tackle desperately. Bill Simmons and I were texting just, just two days ago. I think about this. Need an offensive tackle desperately. You just told me Steve Mensch is our resident offensive line guru. There isn't an offensive tackle in this class. Even with Josh Simmons from Ohio State being fully healthy. When you come around on Connerly and watch more tape and start to agree with me more whether, yeah, here we go. Junior from Texas and all of his talent, but there still isn't a tackle in this class that you believe is top 10 worth. Not on December, given year. You look at last year's class, it's the same thing. You probably have to get down to like three before you start talking about where this guy. These guys would stack up. Patriots desperately need an offensive tackle. Desperately need to take. Take care of their quarterback. They've got their. The one thing you can say about the New England Patriots you don't know about is this the right coaching staff. You don't know about how much ownership is meddling. You don't know about how much power Elliot Wolf has in personnel decisions. You don't know. You have huge question marks about perimeter talent on this team at wide receiver. They don't have difference makers. There are, but the one thing you know is that they've got their guy at quarterback. And honest to God, I would rather have that problem solved than have a whole bunch of those other things I just mentioned, because that's the hardest thing to do in the NFL is to find your guy. So they got their guy. Now we got to protect him and we got to surround him. If it's not offensive tackle, I, I'm going with Travis Hunter here. And when I was texting with Bill, he was, you know, great cornerback, could help on wide Help a wide receiver. I'm like, for me, it doesn't mean the Patriots would do this or any other organization. For me, he's a wide receiver that maybe we, we utilize as a nickel corner and some, some plays on the defensive side. But with that situation with Drake may. Let's get him a weapon. When's the last time the Patriots had a weapon? Like truly a perimeter guy, you were afraid of vertically. And after the catch. Randy Moss. Randy Moss. And prayers out to Randy and his.
- [63:16]
Steve Mensch
Family that whatever's going on there is not good.
- [63:19]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, there's reports now and I'm concerned and worried about him. He's very misunderstood, very good human being and obviously every, everyone is empathizing with him and hopes the best. But back to our, our point, Randy Moss is probably the last time we're talking, like that's like 15 years ago or something, like a long time. So I would go, Travis Hunter here. Would you go in a different direction?
- [63:44]
Steve Mensch
Abdul Carter, Penn State edge. I get that. I get that. I'm gonna build inside out. And listen, I, I want tackles and I want, I, I, you know, for, for this purpose, we can't really do this, but I want, I do want to tackle and I do want them to get a weapon. And it's not a deep receiver class, so that's concerning too. It's not like you could say like last year, like, oh, you're still gonna get pretty good guys in the second round. You're gonna get okay guys in the second round. I think you, if that's what you want to do with this asset, you go in a different direction. You try to make a trade with the first round pick to get a proven guy because the value's not there. And if I'm going to do it this way, I'm gonna build inside out. I want to build in the trenches. I wanna, I, that's how I think you build.
- [64:23]
Todd McShay
Look at Brad Holmes with the Lions.
- [64:25]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, I mean, I want to look at, They've got to find a way to get that offensive line better. And it's, there's no excuses in the front office of like, oh, well, this draft's not very deep. Find the guys that are, are the diamonds in the rough, get out there in free agency, make a trade. You've got to find a way to help this kid out because he's that talented.
- [64:44]
Todd McShay
So I was, I was telling Bill this, I was telling Bill this the other day. Number one priority, if you're a Patriots fan, start to Root for the Raiders like you. You want at least one win, maybe two down the stretch so that they're behind you. And you're a team sitting at one or two where you can move out and move down to five or six and then talk about maybe moving back again or at least now you've, you've recouped, you've gotten a couple additional picks, take the best player available. Not getting much different talent wise. We just told you at 5, 6, 7 than you are at 2 or 3.
- [65:16]
Steve Mensch
So you need assets.
- [65:18]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah, they need assets. I totally agree. All right, so number four, since I've released my top 250, I'm gonna, we're gonna make this a dictatorship today, not a democracy. So we'll say that Travis Hunter went three to the Patriots. Panthers are on the board. Abdul Carter still there. I watched the Panther. I've watched them more in the last few weeks than I did kind of after the first few weeks because now Bryce is back in. I'm interested when Javian Clowny's not out there and Genevieve is no spring chicken. They don't have any to say.
- [65:48]
Steve Mensch
They don't have to say that.
- [65:50]
Todd McShay
Yes and no. I can remember going to his pro day with, with Brewski like it felt like 25 years ago, like a different lifetime. But yes, I think Abdul Carter, if he's available, is the pick here for the Panthers and it's really kind of a no brainer.
- [66:03]
Steve Mensch
I like Mike How Williams too. I think if you look at, I know what you're saying, he hasn't been consistently elite, but you look at the two Texas tapes and you're gonna, there's gonna be a lot of defensive line coaches like, yeah, huh. I want that kid. We can work going against that tackle. Yeah, I want, I want Mike How Williams in the building.
- [66:20]
Todd McShay
Then we got the Browns at five play it. I, I look at their needs. They need quarterback, they need upgraded edge or you know, opposite Miles Garrett. They need offensive tackle help and they still, with Judy emerging, they still need another wide receiver and they also need defensive tackle. Those are the needs. Better team talent wise than a lot than any of these other teams. They just don't. The quarterback situation has been a nightmare. But it's not going to be a quarterback here even though they're going to want one. It's just not if Cam and Shador are gone. It's not. And I don't even know if you want to. I don't know. I don't know Shador is going to be allowed to Go there. I'm already told that New York is not going to be one of the. Is whether Giants or Jets. That. That's not on Coach Prime's list. I got to imagine, given. I've got to imagine given the. The just. I can't think of a worse history with the quarterback position. I mean, the jets and the Browns have to lead that charge right over the years. And so I can't imagine that Coach Brown's gonna be like, yeah, go up to Cleveland Shador.
- [67:27]
Steve Mensch
They were great for Baker.
- [67:29]
Todd McShay
So quarterbacks out. You got the edge talent. There's no wide receiver. We've said there's no offensive tackle. I think. I think. I think Michael Williams would be in play here. I think offensive tackle would be in play here at five. But I'm. For these purposes, I think I would go with Mason Graham. Take the best football player, Michigan. Interesting tackle. Just a thought.
- [67:50]
Steve Mensch
Oh, you try to play nice at the end here. You know, I'm not going to argue with that. I mean, what kind of concept we're going to come up with here? I mean, I can.
- [67:57]
Todd McShay
We can.
- [67:57]
Steve Mensch
Mason Graham is. Is definitely a top five player in this draft. I mean, his ability to win with his hands, his ability to beat double teams. I think, you know, this year has been different for that whole Michigan defense. Go back and watch that kid in the run that Michigan had through the playoffs last year and towards the end of the season, and all the offensive linemen that he played against and guys that kind of matched up with him, whether he's on the outside of times or predominantly inside. But sometimes he's outside and look what he does to these offensive linemen. They're like top end prospects. He is just. I mean, I have number two on my board. He's a defensive tackle. I know he's not going to go that early. I would love to see him go five because I think he's that good of a player.
- [68:39]
Todd McShay
Okay. All right. So I love the flash mo. There it is. They've even building graphic flash mock draft. I love it. We're early in the process. We'll get. We will get. It may be right after the College Football Playoff. We'll keep you alerted. I. I'm excited to unveil first mock draft, full mock draft, sometime relatively soon, within the next month. But let's. Let's hold off. Let's continue to evaluate these players. Let's get through the College Football Playoff. When the time is right and it's. It's coming up soon, we will unveil the first mock and then we'll get rolling from there. All right. Last thing, Mensch. Gotta. It's a Thursday. Oh, yeah, it's a Thursday.
- [69:17]
Steve Mensch
Almost forgot.
- [69:18]
Todd McShay
Gotta finish every Thursday with it. That's my guy. I'll let you get started this week. Go ahead.
- [69:23]
Steve Mensch
I'm going with UNLV safety Jalen Catalon, and you might remember him. Do you remember this?
- [69:28]
Todd McShay
Arkansas, right.
- [69:29]
Steve Mensch
When he was at Arkansas, he was first team SEC as a. As a freshman.
- [69:34]
Todd McShay
I feel like we've been evaluating him for like, six years.
- [69:37]
Steve Mensch
We have 99 tackles, three picks, two force fumbles that year. Hit 12 tackles, a pick and a force fumble in the Tennessee game. He had 16 tackles in the LSU game. So what happened? Really hasn't been able to stay healthy the next three years. Two of them were at Arkansas. Then he went to Texas. Or he had four years at Arkansas, ended up at Texas again, banged up. Really has been banged up since his freshman year. Then he gets to UNLV this year. He's finally healthy.
- [70:07]
Todd McShay
I honest to God don't know that I knew that he was at Texas. Nope.
- [70:11]
Steve Mensch
You have one year. Just there for a minute. So then he's healthy this year. 89 tackles, five picks. I. I'm watching him. First of all, he's awesome in the run game. He's a little. He's not very big, but he's physical, he's tough, he's aggressive. One of the reasons. Probably had a hard time staying healthy, and that will play a big role in where he goes, is that he's such a violent football player. I mean, he's just violent. But if you watch his pick, I think it's in the Fresno State game. It is. You have to go watch it. It is insane. Fresno State turns and runs with the slot, locates the ball with his back to the line of scrimmage, somehow gets one foot down in bounds. I'm like, he's not. I think he has some weaknesses and coverages. He could be a little bit better in that area. He could be a little bit quicker to react, and he's a smaller guy, so he posted up a little bit. But don't tell me you want to test that guy too much with the way he plays the ball. So, I mean, I just. He's someone who could probably go on day three because of all the injuries and the lack of production for years and all of that stuff. Not the biggest guy, but he's talented, man. If he's able to stay healthy, and I hope he is, he's going to be a good football. Football player in the NFL.
- [71:19]
Todd McShay
All right. I like that. I'm gonna go with a guy that I think is. For some reason, I think it honestly has become the. Because the running back class is so loaded and every week I feel like we're unveiling a new running back back. You know, we talk about Dylan Sampson, his role with Tennessee, talking about Prichard Smith, and I just had him as. That's my guy, I think a week or two weeks ago. But I just can't help it. Like every week I feel. I feel drawn to mention that's my guy to a running back. I think the second best running back in this draft class is Caleb Kaylin Johnson from Iowa.
- [71:52]
Steve Mensch
Wow.
- [71:52]
Todd McShay
I just studied his tape. I just studied his tape this week and I was trying to look and kind of compare him to some other guy and I started comparing and I said, no, he's better. Nope, he's better. He's like. I got to the point where I put him at number two and this draft class is loaded. I want you to understand first, this was his first year fully healthy as the full time starter. It's a freshman kind of rotating. Last year missed like four or five games. This year he comes in, he's the workhorse. Full season, full time, healthy. 1537 rushing yards, average 6.4 yards per carry, 21 touchdowns, not accomplished as a receiver mostly, if I'm being honest, swing passes, screens, those sorts of things. But 22 catches this year. I think there's upside in the passing game. I want you to understand this though. Against a pretty salty Minnesota defense. 206 rushing yards. He averaged against Ohio State, 5.8 yards per carry. Didn't have a ton of carries, but averaged 5.8 yards against that really good Ohio State defense. 166. Six rushing yards against Washington, 135 versus Wisconsin. This guy. Yes. It's not the greatest schedule you're going to see. It's not the SEC we can. But that's. Those are, those are competent defenses that he just trashed. Okay? Absolutely trashed. His contact balance. I talk about it all the time. Arguably the most important factor in my opinion at the running back position. Watch him like that screen pass against Nebraska. If we get that clip. The screen pass against Nebraska was a, a thing of beauty. Just watch his feet. They never die on contact. That. That's folk like folks, is what we're looking for at the running back position. It's like his upper body's in this struggle, but his feet don't know it. He's just churning through.
- [73:41]
Steve Mensch
I love that.
- [73:42]
Todd McShay
Right. He's quick for his size, he's powerful and he's a patient runner. And why is patience important? I learned this from a scout who scouted, you know, high level. He wound up being the scouting director Denver Broncos. Talk to me about why is it the Broncos with. With Shanahan have had such success and then Washington. Okay. And he went with Shanahan there. Why are, what's the. Why are you getting these fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh rounders that are rushing for over a thousand yards in the NFL? Because we know what we're looking for. That outside zone scheme Shanahan's run, the ability. There's two things. It's the patience you have to have. And then the most important thing is can you can that when they see that crease about to open, can they stick their foot in the dirt and accelerate shot up? So it's a lot of like slow play, slow play. Patience. Feel it go right has it. Kaylin Johnson, if you get him in the Shanahan tree, I think he's got a chance to be a huge success in the NFL. Now the other thing with the Shanahan tree, if you go watch like Green Bay, Josh Jacobs, there's outside zone, but they are. They're a lot with. With Josh Jacobs a lot more inside zone too. I put on yesterday because I was just. I don't know my mind, you know, when you get in rabbit holes. So I started watching Josh Jacobs because he kind of similar build, like around 6 foot, around 220, powerful. Jacob's more build at this point. But, but Caitlin will get there. The inside zone stuff like you can start to stretch, but if it's there and, and they like I. So I watched a couple clips of Jacobs and then I put Kalen on some of his inside runs back and forth. And I'm like, there's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of similarities. So I don't know. He's intriguing to me and I know he's not in the most exciting playoff.
- [75:29]
Steve Mensch
He's getting amped up. Man, you're excited.
- [75:31]
Todd McShay
Connor Connerly, the offensive tackle from Oregon and Kaylin Johnson, the running back from Iowa, the two. That's my guys that I think are going to really surprise people. Just don't, don't be surprised when we get to draft time and, and you could see Kaylin Johnson. I'm not saying first round the running back position is what it is and there's so much depth. I think teams are going to wait. There's going to be like a hold, hold and then it's going to be this like, you know, barrage of running backs to come off the board. So he may fall into that, but he, I, I'm not saying he's going to be the second drafted behind Ashton Jinty, who we both agree is a top 10 prospect in this class and is very likely to go in the top 15, worst case, top 20. But I think he's the second most NFL not ready, but NFL gifted type runner in this class. There we are. This is a fun one today, man. We got some good Bill Belichick. We got through the top 250 prospects in the College Football playoff matchups. We got through the top 10. You got to pick my top 10 apart, which I know you enjoyed. We got a flash mock draft and then that's my guy. We appreciate all of you. Thank you very much for tuning in. Help us out if you can. We're still building this thing. Likes, subscribes, all the things you need to do. Spread the word if you enjoy it, keep your mouth shut. If you don't. I love that. But, but, but thank you for everyone who's tuned in and taking the time. We will. We'll be back next week. No Saturday show this week. Weird. Get, get your whatever your religion is. Like get your, get your holiday stuff ready, take care of your kids, get the presents, whatever you gotta do. This is your time. Mensch. But I need you to be ready back at this thing on Tuesday. Then we've got Tuesday next week, Thursday, regular, regularly scheduled. And then we're, we're gonna have a fun run in the College Football Playoff. It's gonna be, yeah, the reaction shows on Saturday night Live reaction shows. We'll get Russello back on with us. Maybe we'll grab a guest or two. Doesn't even matter. Like just reacting to those games and then spinning it forward to the next week, the new matchups. Like, I can't wait. All right, Tennessee, Ohio State's over. Now let's start talking Ohio State versus Oregon or Tennessee versus or you know, like there's just gonna be so much fun to be had in the next month or so. Finally, a 12 team college football playoff. And we will be with you the entire time through. Thanks again for tuning in. We'll see you on Tuesday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rgh-help.com, call 1888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconeticate or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, hope NY or text hopeny in New York.