Breaking Down the Latest QB Draft Buzz. Plus, a Defensive Line Deep Dive.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show – Breaking Down the Latest QB Draft Buzz. Plus, a Defensive Line Deep Dive

Release Date: April 1, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The McShay Show, NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay collaborates with co-host Steve Levy to explore the burgeoning quarterback (QB) draft buzz and conduct an extensive deep dive into what McShay describes as the most talent-rich defensive line class in the past 30 years. As the NFL Draft looms just 24 days away, the discussion promises insights that blend mock drafts, insider information, and comprehensive player evaluations.

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Pre-Draft Excitement and Live Streaming Plans

Todd kicks off the episode by hinting at significant changes in how The McShay Show will cover the upcoming NFL Draft. He reveals plans to live stream the first two nights of the draft directly from Los Angeles, avoiding traditional draft locations like Mobile and Green Bay.

Notable Quote:
“We are live streaming the first night of the draft from LA… It’s going to be a fun week,”
[03:09] Todd McShay

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Quarterback Draft Buzz

Potential QB Chaos

Todd and Steve begin by discussing the possibility of "QB chaos" during the draft's initial rounds. As teams vie for top-tier quarterbacks, the competitive atmosphere intensifies, leading to fluctuating draft positions and speculative trades.

Notable Quote:
“You’re starting to feel like we’re heading towards some quarterback chaos the first two nights of the draft,”
[01:36] Todd McShay

FanDuel Draft Odds and Predictions

Utilizing FanDuel's draft odds, McShay analyzes the standing of premier QB prospects:

• Abdul Carter (Edge Rusher): Positioned as a strong contender for the number two pick, primarily favored by the Cleveland Browns. Quote:
  “The number two pick is Abdul Carter, Edge Rusher and Shador Sanders,”
  [09:08] Todd McShay

• Shador Sanders: With odds at +340, Sanders presents a viable option slightly below Carter’s favorability. Quote:
  “Shador Sanders is next highest at +340,”
  [09:51] Todd McShay

• Travis Hunter: Currently favored for the third pick at -150, but with very little name recognition outside specific circles. Quote:
  “Travis Hunter minus 150… not good odds at either spot,”
  [09:52] Todd McShay

Team Strategies and Speculations

The Browns and Giants are scrutinized for their potential moves, especially regarding Shador Sanders and how these strategies might disrupt traditional draft flows.

Notable Quote:
“If Cam Ward goes one, where does Shador go? Jackson Dart creeps up,”
[14:11] Todd McShay

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Defensive Line Deep Dive

Todd shifts focus to the defensive line, emphasizing its historical significance and unparalleled talent this year.

Historic Talent Pool

McShay asserts that the 2025 defensive line class is unparalleled in the last three decades, highlighting an impressive number of interior and edge players rated highly in the first three draft rounds.

Notable Quote:
“This is the most talent-rich defensive line class in the last 30 years,”
[31:37] Todd McShay

Edge Group Analysis

1. Abdul Carter

   • Strengths: Explosive takeoff, elite dip and bend, exceptional change of direction.
   • Weaknesses: Still developing in certain pass-rushing techniques. Quote:
     “Few humans on the planet can turn the corner and bend like Abdul Carter,”
     [48:02] Todd McShay

2. Jalen Walker

   • Strengths: Explosiveness, versatility in 3-4 schemes, strong motor.
   • Weaknesses: Potential categorization as a tweener between edge and linebacker roles. Quote:
     “Jalen Walker is the most sudden athlete of all these guys,”
     [51:33] Todd McShay

3. Mike Green

   • Strengths: Leader in sacks, aggressive pass.rusher with elite speed.
   • Weaknesses: Facing past legal accusations which may affect draft stock. Quote:
     “Mike Green leads FBS in sacks and has elite speed and power,”
     [56:51] Todd McShay

4. Shamar Stewart and Mikel Williams

   • Strengths: Shamar boasts impressive physical traits and pass-rushing ability; Mikel is noted for his body control and athleticism.
   • Weaknesses: Limited production due to playing behind a talented defensive line.

5. James Pierce and Donovan Ezraku

   • Strengths: High pass-rushing potential, versatility in defensive schemes.
   • Weaknesses: Pierce's limited snap counts raise questions about his consistency.

Notable Quote:
“James Pierce is the second-best pass rusher in this entire class, but his production is baffling,”
[43:59] Todd McShay

Interior Group Analysis

1. Derek Harmon

   • Strengths: Physical gifts, strong pass-rushing capabilities.
   • Weaknesses: Needs development in techniques to maximize pass rush effectiveness. Quote:
     “Derek Harmon has all the traits and is arguably one of the most physically gifted interior linemen,”
     [91:34] Todd McShay

2. Walter Nolan

   • Strengths: Powerful and athletic, excellent hand usage on tape.
   • Weaknesses: Currently underwhelming pass rush statistics; requires development. Quote:
     “Walter Nolan's pass rush is underwhelming right now, but his physical traits make him a high-impact prospect,”
     [91:13] Todd McShay

3. Kenneth Grant and Joshua Farmer

   • Strengths: Versatility in defensive schemes, strong run defense.
   • Weaknesses: Joshua Farmer is seen as having a moderate ceiling, needing further refinement.

Notable Quote:
“Kenneth Grant utilizes his arm length beautifully and has a relentless motor,”
[99:46] Todd McShay

Comparative Insights and Team Needs

McShay draws parallels between current prospects and historical NFL defensive linemen, underscoring how team-specific needs and coaching strategies will influence draft decisions.

Notable Quote:
“James Pierce is not throwing sacks due to his limited snaps, not because of talent,”
[43:59] Todd McShay

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Conclusion and Upcoming Content

As the episode wraps up, Todd emphasizes the strategic depth of the defensive line class and its potential to significantly impact team performances post-draft. He teases future episodes that will continue to dissect player performances and draft projections, maintaining excitement and anticipation for the upcoming draft events.

Notable Quote:
“We got the most talent-rich defensive line class since 2012. This sets the stage for a chaotic and entertaining draft,”
[37:39] Todd McShay

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Key Takeaways

• QB Draft Dynamics: The initial draft rounds may see unprecedented competition among top quarterbacks, potentially leading to unexpected picks and trades.

• Defensive Line Dominance: The 2025 draft class for defensive linemen is exceptionally deep, with a historic number of highly-rated players, especially on the edge group.

• Player Evaluations: Comprehensive analyses highlight both the strengths and areas needing development for key prospects, providing listeners with nuanced insights into potential draft outcomes.

• Strategic Implications: Teams with robust defensive line needs might find immense value in the upcoming draft, while QB-centric teams will navigate heightened competition for elite talent.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “We're live streaming the first night of the draft from LA… It’s going to be a fun week.”
  [03:09] Todd McShay

• “Abdul Carter, the presumed top-five pick, is grinding as always at [48:02].”
  [48:02] Todd McShay

• “James Pierce is the second-best pass rusher in this entire class, but his production is baffling.”
  [43:59] Todd McShay

• “Walter Nolan's pass rush is underwhelming right now, but his physical traits make him a high-impact prospect.”
  [91:13] Todd McShay

• “We got the most talent-rich defensive line class since 2012. This sets the stage for a chaotic and entertaining draft.”
  [37:39] Todd McShay

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions from The McShay Show episode, providing an engaging overview for those who haven't tuned in while highlighting pivotal moments and expert analyses that define the upcoming NFL Draft landscape.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. The NFL Draft is right around the corner and FanDuel is the best place to get in on all the action. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. And FanDuel has a lot of ways to bet the draft, with loads more coming between now and the first pick. So download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL Draft, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg d help.com to learn more about resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com this episode is brought to you by no Bullshit. Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger, especially when you've got Best in class award winning footwear backing you up. NO bowl is a footwear brand for training and for daily life built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And get this exclusive for the McShay show listeners. No ball is offering 30% off your order. Visit noallproject.com McShay for 30% off your your entire order. That's N O B U-L L P R-O-J-E-C-T.com backslash McShay for 30% off. Let me ask you something, Steve.

[Steve Levy]

Go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

You're starting to feel like we're heading towards some quarterback chaos the first two night nights of the draft.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. I mean the farther along in the process we go, the more it seems like that's happening. It's been building a little bit now.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I'm starting to get some information, hearing things. Owners meetings, let's get to all of that. Plus we've got the deep dive position group into the deepest position in the entire draft, the defensive line. This is the maybe historically the most talent we've ever seen across the front, interior and edge guys in the NFL Draft history. You know there's only 24 days until the NFL Draft. Here we go. Meant you good?

[Steve Levy]

I'm good, man.

[Todd McShay]

All right, let's play that pre game music, baby. All right. If you're tuning in, we appreciate you. Whether it's on Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts, stick with us. I mean, we're in the stretch run now, right? I'm excited. Listen, we're on Mondays and Thursdays as we get closer to the draft, we're going to be on more frequently. We'll let you know in advance. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on scheduling. I get yelled at for. For talking scheduling here, but I am going to do something that Connor and Dan and Tucker and all the way up to Bill Simmons and. And beyond. Well, there's no beyond.

[Steve Levy]

Jeff Chow can't wait.

[Todd McShay]

They. I'm not saying they told me I can't, but I have not asked for approval to do this, but I am going to let everyone who's loyal to the show know that we are live streaming during the draft. Mention I are flying out to la. The draft ends in la, Mench. If it begins in Mobile for the Senior bowl, it ends in la. We're not going to Green Bay and freezing our asses off. We have beautiful studios out in LA that we've never been to and we're excited to go to. We're going to hopefully have a live event the night before. We'll give you more information if we're able to pull that off. It's going to be a fun week. And you know when we're going to end it and how we're going to end it, and I'm going to reveal it right now. And no one told me I could do this. And I'm not even sure if the man man who's hosting us, he told me we're good. So I'm assuming we're good. We're going to live stream the first night of the draft. We're going to be there about an hour before. We'll give you all the details as we get closer. But we're going to live stream throughout the first night of the draft. Second night of the draft, we're going to live stream throughout the second round. Then we're going to kind of regroup, look at everything, spend a couple hours and give you a show overnight. Then the third day of the draft, I'm looking at my phone because I want to pull this up. I was trying to think of how we could do something fun, right? And I decided to text Priscilla because Priscilla lives out in Manhattan Beach. We're staying out in Manhattan beach for the week. So I shot him a text. I was like, hey, just trying to call you. You didn't pick up. You got a bleeped up voicemail situation, by the way, call me back when you get a minute. I got an idea that I'm going to pitch to you and your answer needs to be yes. Kind of like in the town. I need you to help. You can't tell. I can't tell you what it is. You can never ask me about it later. And we're going to hurt some people. All I need you to respond with is, whose car are we going to take? So Rosillo, our good friend, I talked to him, I pitched the idea. He said yes.

[Steve Levy]

Awesome.

[Todd McShay]

We're live streaming the seventh round of the NFL draft. When everyone's like, I don't want to listen to some of these people who, half of them I don't even trust that they've watched a minute of tape. And I've sat on the set with some people who haven't of any of these players being drafted. I know you don't care about a guard from Kennesaw State that's being drafted with pick 246. So what we're going to do is we're going to jump on, we're going to get the process going. We're going to start talking about what all the teams have done. What are the big moves. If a quarterback or a big player or a player that we're excited about gets drafted, we'll comment on that. But we have an awesome lineup. And I can't say with 100% confirmation, but I'm pretty sure our boy Bill Simmons is going to be part of this thing too. We got an awesome lineup. I just wanted to share it. I'm like, okay, I've been, I've had the Christmas gift. I've been hiding it in the closet. And I'm not a kid. I'm like a parent who got the kid, like the toy of the year. And like, I'm so excited. I should wait till Christmas morning. But I just ruined the surprise. And I'm probably gonna get yelled at after. They might even cut this thing out. But that's the story. So as we get closer, there's gonna be more. All week long, every single day, we're gonna have shows from la. And we've got the live streams coming up for the first night, second night, and for the seventh round in, oh, I didn't even tell you where in Rosillo's house. Rosillo's got an awesome, like, man cave basement overlooking the Pacific Ocean. TV's everywhere. We're taking it over. We're bringing our guys, we're bringing our whole crew, and we're going to invade his house. And I talked to Bill Simmons about this. We're going to make him run a 40 yard dash. No Bring your stopwatch. We're going to make him run a 40 yard dash. Okay, that's that. Now on to the quarterbacks. And I think you've gotten like, I love our sponsors. I appreciate them very much. Fan Duel is an amazing partner in all of this. They keep these lights on, they make sure that we have what we need. They've been an awesome sponsor and partner through from the day one of this show. But like, I've got reads for them. I said we do some tweets and we do some different things. Exposts. But this has nothing to do with a sponsorship. This is like this time of year. It's interesting, Mitch, because a few years ago, I'll never forget, I was at a pro day and I was talking to a general manager and he was the one who brought up to me for the first time I had ever heard it from someone in the NFL, come out of their mouth. Thought it was interesting that this, the odds are really saying that this guy's going to go here. And I don't see it that way, but somebody might know something. And I was like, right, oh, interesting. People in the league are looking at this stuff too. Not just my degenerate friends up here in Boston.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And, and ever since that, more and more conversation. And it's not like, let's put it this way, if Eric DaCosta is comfortable saying one of our 146, you know, ingredients in our cocktail for our draft final data points. Yeah, data points is Madden Ratings. Like, it's also like, if you'd be crazy to think that these general managers are not looking for any edge or any kind of intel. And you'd also be crazy to think that these people who make a lot of money, like FanDuel and other places, make a lot of money by having intel and having.

[Steve Levy]

They're not just throwing darts, man, they know something.

[Todd McShay]

So when I, when I got up this morning and I was clicking around to see, because I love these draft odds, I've made a lot of friends, Rich. And I've never once placed a bet myself. Rich, not rich. I, I have lined their pockets. I've given them some, some extra money heading into the summer, every single year for the last like, I love it. Four years. Okay. And we're gonna. And if you are a loyal fan, I promise you, draft week, we are going to identify five or six. I'll probably go four for five or five for six. And you'll thank me later. So stay tuned for that because we just, you know, too much and you if you identify certain plays, most of them you're like, oh, they're onto it. Like they know. Yeah.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

2.5 running backs in the first round. Those sons of like they, they know.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

So I was looking today on FanDuel and it's at FD Sportsbook. If you want to look right and get the app, you got to like I I fell in love this this fall. The number two pick. You know what the odds are men? Number two pick which currently is head by the Cleveland held by the Cleveland Browns. The number two pick is Abdul Carter, Edge Rusher and Shador Sanders. Right. Those are the two names that you hear the most. Not as much Travis hunter, Abdul Carter minus 300. Shore Sanders is next highest at plus 340.

[Steve Levy]

Wow.

[Todd McShay]

Right. And there you if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can see these, these picks come up and the odds from FanDuel also at number three, Travis Hunter minus 150. Not as steep as Abdul Carter at two which is running line with a lot of the the information I'm starting to hear Travis Hunter's -150 to be the number three pick currently held by the New York Giants should or Sanders is plus 170. So better odds that Shador Sanders goes 3 than 2 but not good odds at either spot, bud.

[Steve Levy]

Wow. So now how far does he fall?

[Todd McShay]

That's now again, one bit of information. 11 Adam Schefter Nugget on NFL Live or X post or whatever it is one thing from Palisaro, right. One thing from one of these guys that get get all the information could change that. And we've seen drastic changes. But let's keep an eye on these things because they seem to whether they're like right at the moment or a step ahead of the moment, they are they're not looking to lose money. FanDuel is not in the business of losing money.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

So and if NFL general managers are keeping an eye on this stuff and they're not keeping they're not trying to win 25 bucks here, you know, trying to make a hundred into three, three hundred. They're they're trying to see does somebody know something that I'm not getting because a lot of people either want to give false information or don't want to give information some years year. And so may this is one more source. Maybe someone has contact somewhere. Whatever it is, right.

[Steve Levy]

Who's going to be on the board we pick. Do we have to move up to get a guy. All that comes into play Here, those.

[Todd McShay]

Are the two things right there. Who's going to be on the board? And if we are trying to target a player, where do we have to move up? And there are a lot of mock drafts. There's a lot about Adam Schefter and Palisaro and. And everybody else. But there's. But there's this as well. Just another ingredient in the. In the big cocktail to stir it up. So if you're listening to these odds and you're wondering why is McShay going on a rant about FanDuel? He promised that this isn't. This is a sponsorship. He's not getting paid to do this. And I'm not. It's because the odds are telling us Shador Sanders isn't going in the top three. And then I look at the New England Patriots are sitting at number four and they don't need a quarter. Jacksonville Jaguars.

[Steve Levy]

Nope.

[Todd McShay]

Don't. Didn't bring in Liam Cohen and a new. And a new general manager with any thought of moving on for Trevor Lawrence. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You got to get to six to Las Vegas where it make any sort of sense. And I've gotten absolutely no indication. In fact, I've gotten strong indication to the opposite for both 6 and 7. Raiders. Jets not gonna.

[Steve Levy]

Jets 2. Huh?

[Todd McShay]

Jets 2 not gonna be Shador. Those picks. I told you. I do think there's some love in the building for Jackson Dart. If you could get him. I don't think he. I'll say this right now. The biggest shock to me on the first night of the draft is if Jackson Dart's name is not called in those first 32 picks, he's going in the first round. Okay. So when I, you know, when there was information, the jets like. Yeah, there's. They like him. There's a lot of teams that like Jackson Dart, but where can you get them? Right.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And their second round pick is at. At 4. 42 overall. So I look at this and I look at the. I look at The Raiders pick. 6 and 37. Right. Jets 7 and 42. Saints 9 and 40. Pittsburgh. And we'll get back to Pittsburgh in a minute. A lot of information.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. This one's interesting.

[Todd McShay]

Right. But they pick a 21 and no second.

[Steve Levy]

They lost a second in the DK Metcalf draft. Right?

[Todd McShay]

Yep. The Rams are later. I don't have the number in front of me. My list 25ish. Right around that range. The Rams are later and I could see them drafting a quarterback, but I don't think they're going into this with that idea necessarily.

[Steve Levy]

26.

[Todd McShay]

26. But then you get back to the second round early. Cleveland 33, Giants 34. And I bring up all of those teams because I look at this and I see, okay, if Cam Ward's the only quarterback that goes in the top three, where does Shador go then, Then what's the next domino? When does Jackson Dart go?

[Steve Levy]

Okay, so there's no leapfrogging in this scenario. You don't think that Jackson could go ahead of Shador?

[Todd McShay]

I don't think so. I haven't heard anything.

[Steve Levy]

I feel the same way.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I don't think so. I'm not that, that's not where I'm going with this. I, but it, it, it, it does beg the question. You're looking at six spots in the top 34. If, if you get out of the top three, Shador sitting there at four, you've now got like six spots that I'm looking at. Right? I said Vegas Jets, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, you can throw in the rams, Cleveland at 33, Giants at 34. So seven, we'll call it seven spots where a quarterback could go. And this isn't exclusive to just Shador. This is like a Shador and, and dart, you know, domino's fallen one, two after. Or two, three after the first domino. And Cam Ward falls presumably number one overall. I, as I said, I don't think strongly. I, I strongly believe, based off of my information, a quarterback is not going six to the Raiders, seven to the Jets.

[Steve Levy]

Wow.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think. Or, or, or 21 to Pittsburgh. I don't think the Steelers are going to take quarterback at 21.

[Steve Levy]

Wow.

[Todd McShay]

I do not.

[Steve Levy]

I thought that was the, I thought that was the floor. I thought that was the floor for sure. But if he's there at 21, does.

[Todd McShay]

The floor, does the floor move? I guess is my question. I, I'm still fascinated a little bit by the concept of cake and eat it, too. Nick Casser, right?

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, who is. Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Levy]

No, I love it.

[Todd McShay]

Who wants to get their cake and then not eat it? I mean, if, if you get Abdul Carter, if you're the Cleveland Browns and you've got some draft capital, what's to prevent you from moving back up and getting. Whether it's Shador Jackson Dart in the first round. Same for the New York Giants sitting there at number three. If you get Travis Hunter, wouldn't it be cute? We're not beyond amazing to eat those two guys, right?

[Steve Levy]

We're not talking about that. The Stroud, Will Anderson.

[Todd McShay]

That's what I'm saying.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, but those went two, three. You're not talking about two, three, right? You're talking about two 14, two.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know.

[Steve Levy]

I. I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know. I don't know. I'm just. I don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows right now. Even the teams that. Even if, if Joe, Joe Shane is the general manager of the Giants wants to pull something off like that. He doesn't know at this point if he truly can.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

As we get closer in the conversations, and I don't know that he wants to. Same for Cleveland, sitting there at pick 33, one spot ahead of the Giants, you know, in the first pick in the second round. I don't know if that's what their game plan is.

[Steve Levy]

But you're saying, wow, you don't think the Raiders are going to take one? You don't think the jets are going to take one? The Saints make sense.

[Todd McShay]

Very much so.

[Steve Levy]

They do make sense.

[Todd McShay]

But, but some of their offseason moves have been, have been interesting. It's almost like they think they can win. No, no, it's not a lock. No.

[Steve Levy]

You don't look at them, say they, they have to get a quarterback. So. And now you're saying no Pittsburgh. I mean, all sudden, these teams that I've identified as teams that could be targeting him.

[Todd McShay]

And, and so here's the other part of it that's fascinating to me because. Because I do think it's not. This is not the year of the quarterback. There were six in the top 12 last year. This is all about the defensive line, the running backs. Right. But it still is the fascinating conversation. Everyone's talking about it. If Cam Ward goes one, where does Shador go? Jackson darts crawling up, creeping up. Awesome. Pro Day, for whatever it's worth. People who are in attendance utterly, utterly blown away by him conducting it, his leadership, the way he handled it, his maturity, his arm, all those things. It's prote. Who cares?

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, love the player. Can't stand the protein concepts.

[Todd McShay]

But here's the other element. There's the secondary element because there is Cam Ward and there's always been this Ward Shador conversation. And Jackson Dart has crept up as we see every year. There's always, always seems to be one or two that kind of creep up and bridge the gap.

[Steve Levy]

Always.

[Todd McShay]

Is Jalen Melro going to be QB4 in this class?

[Steve Levy]

I think there's an excellent chance. An excellent chance. I mean, it's Just a matter. I mean, I don't think he goes. I don't think there's any shot of him going the first round.

[Todd McShay]

I don't need. No, no, I'm not talking about that. But I'm now talking about these combination picks. Right. Where you don't get your guy. You. You opt out, if you will, for a better. Yeah, because here's my thing. It lines up with our evaluations and our conversations with teams. I don't know a single person in the National Football League that doesn't have a higher grade on Abdul Carter and. Or Travis Hunter than they do. Two things can be true here. You can absolutely love Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter, but also really, really like Shador Sanders. But recognize the grade's not. So quarterback's more important. Yes. But it's still a pass rusher and it's still this generational talent that might do something nobody else has done. So. And fanduel agrees and every evaluator I talked to in the league agrees, like, yeah, I really like him. Varying degrees of. I, I do like him. Some are like, no, he's. I think the gap. I've talked to people that I don't think the gap is huge between Ward and Shador, but I do recognize the gap. Others, yes, there are people out there I've spoken to that have him kind of a late first, early second type grade, but that always gets. So it all kind of falls in line. And then if it's. If you are a team like Cleveland or the Giants or you are a team like Las Vegas with Tom Brady saying, I want to develop a quarterback.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I hate this process of bringing in a guy and throwing him in the fire. They don't know what they're doing. They're not being developed and. And taught a program and taught a system the way that they have to in the NFL at the college level. So you got Vegas at 37. Right. I'm just looking at. And then you get New Orleans at 40. And so we've talked so much about. Okay, well, they're looking at the second tier guys. Cleveland's put a lot of work in with the second tier guys. Colin Cow Herd comes out with Jalen Milro. And this is why I think it's fascinating. Colin Cowherd comes out with Jalen Melro and says, I'm getting intel that Pittsburgh's absolutely in love with jalen. Taking a 21 could take him. I do. Well, tell me.

[Steve Levy]

Right. Well, here's the thing. I don't. Here's. I'll just go with the negative first. Right. Of all these, all these teams that we're talking about, are you comfortable with Mason Rudolph being your starter if you're the Steelers? I think the other teams are in a little bit better position, quarterback wise, in terms of playing a guy next year and developing a player. I think Pittsburgh really needs to find a starter maybe more than those other teams.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think there's a. You. How about this? Put it. Clip this off for later. You can make fun of me. I don't think there's a world out there in which Aaron Rodgers isn't the starting quarterback of the Steelers.

[Steve Levy]

Isn't.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Levy]

Okay. Isn't. Okay. Good.

[Todd McShay]

That's.

[Steve Levy]

That's okay. So now, now we're talking about Rogers. We'll wait for that domino to fall. But let's just.

[Todd McShay]

But even, but even if not. Oh, I love it.

[Steve Levy]

I love it. And here's a problem, right? I don't think that Milroe gets out of the second round. They don't have a second round pick. We mentioned that.

[Todd McShay]

So why couldn't they trade back from 21?

[Steve Levy]

Trade back. Trade up. Figure it out, man. Figure it out.

[Todd McShay]

They need a running back. You can move back. Get Travion Henderson 100. Pick up an additional second. Maneuver around.

[Steve Levy]

Yes, yes.

[Todd McShay]

If you want the right partner. But then Schefter comes out and sends an X post after Colin a couple days ago, says, I'm hearing this. They love him. They could take him at 21. Schefter, I don't even think it was an ex. I think it was some interview he did was like, based off of all the information I'm getting from all over the place. I don't, I, I don't think. And I'm paraphrasing Adam. Sorry if I'm not. It's not, it's not the actual quote, but essentially, I don't know. Yeah, there's no chance he's going the quarterback. And it wasn't Melroe. It was just a quarter that they're taking a quarterback at 21.

[Steve Levy]

But think about, think about Milroe in Pittsburgh. I just got to say this, like they've watched Lamar Jackson in Baltimore. They've had to watch that unfold and all the criticism. I don't know if people remember this. I think most people do, to be honest with you. When Lamar came out of, came out of Louisville, it was, this kid's not accurate enough. You know, all the, the polling stuff that came out about. Maybe he's not A quarterback. All of the, the controversy and the criticisms about him and they've watched him develop into an MVP quarterback. I mean, he is unreal. And you, if you could do that. And then also one of the things we love about Milroe, I know you talk about it all the time, is the deep ball. You just went out and got DK Metcalf. You want a quarterback and they can get him the ball downfield. Jalen Milro can do that for you. He's a guy who can take the top off the coverage. I, I'm in love with that pick. The problem for me has always been now that they don't have a second round pick, how do they get into a position to take him in the right area of the draft?

[Todd McShay]

So sticking with the Milro thing here, Cleveland general manager Andrew Berry came out and started talking about four quarterbacks that they've put their eyes on live three, and the fourth being Shador Sanders. I guess they have a workout scheduled with him and his pro day is coming up next week at Colorado. He mentioned four quarterbacks that basically that they've narrowed it down to. Joe. Surprised he even gave that information. Tyler Shuck was not one of the four. It was Cam Ward, Shador Sanders, Jackson Dart and Jaylen Milro. You know who their offensive coordinator is?

[Steve Levy]

Who's our opponent's coordinate right now?

[Todd McShay]

Tommy Reese, who was with Milroe at Alabama, had a better year with Milroad Alabama than. Than he had this past year with Kaylin DeBoer and that offensive staff. Jordan Schultz comes out insider. Right. I don't have the quote here. I'm not looking to go go into specifics, but there's a quote from an assistant general manager that he put out there and I don't think he would put it out there if he was making it up. Talking about things that people are overlooking with Jalen Milroe and the criticism's been too harsh. Okay, but then there's. But then there's what I see on tape.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And then, and then there's also the conversations. I'm. What I've seen on tape. We just went into a long thing. If you didn't go. If you didn't watch it, go back and check it out. It lives on the YouTube page and also on Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. We just recently are most recent position deep dive position group deep dive quarterbacks. So I'm not going to bore people and we got to get to defensive line today. But they also have this intel and I keep a one sheet for all these players, the top players and all the information if you're starting to get. If I'm starting to hear quotes or different things as I have conversations with people and in addition to. And yes. And part of my evaluation. Everyone's evaluation is beautiful deep ball. Great young man beloved in Tuscaloosa. Like good luck finding someone who doesn't like this human being. Smart kid, smart guy, smart picks things up. Also his. I mean it doesn't take a super scout to figure out his, you know his 4394 and what he does on tape and just watch him against Georgia the mobility is Supposedly he was weaving.

[Steve Levy]

During the the 40 by the way. Supposedly he was not a. Not straight down the line.

[Todd McShay]

Perfect.

[Steve Levy]

Insane.

[Todd McShay]

But I also have all these quotes that fall in line and I'm not going to get into everything but I do want to share with you and this and this goes in the category of it only takes one but there are people out there who are like no feel, no ins. There's some really bad tape.

[Steve Levy]

It's just what it is.

[Todd McShay]

Actually these are quotes can't execute an offense. Some stories I was told about like Kaylin DeBoer and the staff and the frustrations mounting throughout the season. You can almost see it on tape. Look great against Wisconsin at times great in the first half against Georgia. Frustrations of like calls going in. That's not the same play being run or miscommunications. Not understanding this read to that read. Not knowing where to go with the football despite going so there's a lot of those things. Also no touch. He's inaccurate. Muscled up. I talked to you about Tim Tebow, Will Levis.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Brady Quinn. So there's like this. But unlike Vince Young he's got time.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I'm was going to draft him with time. No one's going to draft him with the expectation of putting him in. Like Vince Young was right when he.

[Steve Levy]

Anthony Richardson, third overall pick.

[Todd McShay]

Anthony Richardson.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So he's gonna have the. So I don't know. I, I also, I also saw this Matt Williams, by the way. That's where I got it from old school. Yeah.

[Steve Levy]

Shout out Matt Williams.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's been a while. Our old buddy. Haven't talked to him in a while. But I, I was scrolling through some stuff on Milro to see what, what anything else is out there and he had a really interesting nugget throw 25 yards downfield. His 48 accuracy rate is 5.5 percentage points worse than the next lowest quarterback Talking about Jaylen Milro, while his 33.1 uncatchable rate is 3.8 percentage points worse than the next closest. So here's the deal. And just to kind of summarize it all, two things. First of all is I think it's going to be fascinating because there are some teens out there that love him and there are a lot of teams out there that don't have the time or interested in developing it. There are teams out there that like Shador a lot and consider him a top 10 pick. There are other teams that view him as a second round pick. We know Cam Ward's going one. We know Jackson Dart is rising, but you can't look at this board and say, oh, they're going to take. If he falls there, they're taking him. I don't have. I can't pinpoint that right now. So it makes for a fascinating first night and then whatever's left over if Milro's sitting there, Tyler Shuck sitting there. Which teams didn't get their guy in the first round? Does a Nick Casario type move happen to try to get your Abdul Carter and your Shador Sanders or your Travis Hunter and your Shador Sanders? We're setting up for something chaotic and it's going to be a lot of fun. That's the first part, the second part with Jaylen Milro specifically. And I want you to pay strict attention to what I say. To what I say because I choose my words carefully. As Dalton Russell says in Inside man, pay pay strict attention to what I say because I choose my words carefully. Here are my words. It is very hard to ignore the imperfections on tape. And the evaluations are act. The evaluators are actually aware of every nuanced thing that happened in Tuscaloosa.

[Steve Levy]

Okay, interesting.

[Todd McShay]

But it would also be ignorant not to acknowledge these special traits.

[Steve Levy]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

History tells you it would be ignorant. And you got to take chances. So as Dalton Russell also says, an inside man therein, as the bard would tell us, lies the rub. All right, great. Moving on.

[Steve Levy]

I'm taking that. I'm buying that lottery ticket in the second round, man. And also, also I want. I want a wild card team to come out of nowhere. I want another Atlanta situation. I want a team I think we cannot expect.

[Todd McShay]

I truly do.

[Steve Levy]

And I want that. I don't want to blow up. I hope it's after your. I know how. How hard you work on that mock. So I hope it's after your mock. It's blown up because that's going to happen in the first 10.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I don't care. I don't care.

[Steve Levy]

I know, but it would be awesome. Just, it's, it's chaos. I love that entertainment factor of a team that you don't. And we. I can't give you one because if I, if I did, that would defeat the purpose. Like, it's a team you don't expect, man. It's a team you don't see it coming. Could they just say, oh, Shador is here? Well, our board is our board and we have them this point. We're taking them. It'd be interesting to see if that happens.

[Todd McShay]

So I will never apologize for putting good content out there. And we've put amazing content out with the quarterbacks and the wide receivers and the tight ends and the running backs. I really like, I feel great about it, but I also recognize and you watch tape and you learn from your mistakes. Like, it may be a little exhausting at times for some, for some people. So I do want to keep this.

[Steve Levy]

What do you mean? These deep.

[Todd McShay]

But it's, it's almost impossible to keep it moving. And of course I'm going to try to keep it moving with, with a group. The defensive line is loaded. This is our position. Deep dive. Position group, deep dive. We're doing a series on this. We've, we've wrapped up all the offensive positions. We're saving the best for last for bench. We're going to do offensive line at the end.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But this is the most talent rich defensive line class in the last 30 years. And I don't say that flippantly. I don't throw that out there just because I'm excited about this year's class. I went back and I did some research. Previously in 2016, there were 26 edged and interior defensive linemen taken in the first three rounds of that draft. There were some years where there were 13 edges. There were some years like 13 or 14. But combined together, the interior and edge guys, that's the most we've seen. And I went back in 30 years. Okay. Wow. So right now, this group, I've got 16 interior defensive linemen and 19 edge rushers with grades in the first three rounds. That equals 35 this 2025 group.

[Steve Levy]

So even I'm right there.

[Todd McShay]

Even if I over graded eight of them match, it would still be the most defensive lineman taken in the first three rounds of the draft in 30, at minimum. 30 years. I wasn't going back to like the 80s. Okay. I went back 30 years and that was my cut off. So here we go. Here's what I. I'm going to give you a quick overview. Okay. There's. There's the two elite guys, in my opinion, right at the top. And, and you can throw up the. The graphic Tucker. For people watching on YouTube and Spotify, Abdul Carter and Mason Graham. We'll get to kind of what's special about them. They're the blue chippers at the top. Right? Then I think it's going to be kind of a class of runs. Okay. You're going to see and it probably will be, I don't know, maybe pick eight, Carolina nine, but it's not. I think it could be around that range. Then you'll see like Jalen Walker and I think the edge. The edge group. Maybe it'll be Jaylen Walker and then four or five more picks. But once you see a Mike Green or a Shamar Stewart come off the board, there's going to be a run. Okay. There's a run. Okay. So it's going to go. It's going to go one one edge, one interior guy, Carter and Graham. Then you're going to see a run of these. These edge guys. You see it on this. These rankings, right? It's Jalen Walker, Mike Green, Shamar Stewart, Mikel Williams, James Pierce, Donovan. As a Ruku, okay.

[Steve Levy]

Yep, I'm with you.

[Todd McShay]

As a raku, I'll have it right in 24 days. Okay. After that. But kind of weaved in there though, towards the like Pierce, some of the character stuff. As a raku, I think you're going to see a Derek Harmon into interior guy, Walter Nolan, Kenneth Grant, right, that. That's going to kind of be weaved in. Towards the end of round one. You're going to see Harmon and Nolan and Grant maybe early round two if one of those sneaks out of the first round. But then to start the second round, it's gonna be Darius Alexander, Ty. Ty Leak, Williams Shamar, Shamar Turner, Joshua Farmer and then beyond that, like that's. That going to be that interior run. Omar Norman, lot weaved in with a couple edges, right, like Brady, Braden Swinson, I. Nick Scorton, I'm not as high on as. As most people. Scorton will probably go like in that earlier part of the second, but then it'll be kind of, you know, a mixed bag of Alfred Collins, TJ Sanders at interior and then Ola Dejo from ucla, Landon Jackson, jtt, Ohio State. So it's gonna be runs. But at the end of the day My goodness. We got a lot of guys, a lot of guys going the first three rounds of this draft, right?

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. You're gonna. Players that normally would be drafted probably early in the third round could slip into the fourth round. Just because the way needs and team fits and all that unfolds, you're going to find there's going to be some guys in the day three of this draft where I'm going to be stunned that they're still available. I think just because the numbers, it's just a numbers game, especially at edge.

[Todd McShay]

I think interior is better in. Well, let's get to it. All right.

[Steve Levy]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

So let's get to the edge. Edge group.

[Steve Levy]

Let's do it.

[Todd McShay]

As you saw there on that graphic and I just mentioned, I think this edge group is extraordinarily rich in round one and in round three.

[Steve Levy]

Interesting.

[Todd McShay]

I think there's going to be a little bit of a drop off in round two. Okay. But then I think it's loaded kind of late day one into early day two and to your point, you're going to find guys that you'd be like, normally you'd be like, there's no. We just can't get a guy that caliber. Early day, early day three. Sorry.

[Steve Levy]

Right, gotcha.

[Todd McShay]

Early day three in the fourth round. I have 10 more graded in the first four rounds than the three year average. Let's throw up that three year average, Tucker, for people on YouTube and Spotify. Three more in the first four rounds or, sorry, 10 more in the first four rounds. 9.4 than the average of 15.6 in the first four rounds. Right. Seven in the first, three in the second, nine in the third, six in the fourth. Okay, got. If seven go in the first round, men, it'll be the first time since 2012 and the only time that I, I remember seeing it. I don't think it like, I think it was three decades, but the first time since 2012, so we're talking like 13 years that we saw seven edge defenders go in the first round. A little bit of a mixed bag, but not horrible. Bruce Irvin, Quentin Coples, Melvin Ingram, Shea McClellan. Then the later was actually just as good as the beginning. Chandler Jones, Whitney Merciless, Nick Perry. Okay, that was that 2012 class. So this would be the first time since that class that we could see seven. I don't know that all will go, but they could. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

I created a thing for the top, top prospects and I tried to break them up real quickly before we get into the individuals. I tried to break them up based off of the defensive front fits.

[Steve Levy]

And it's more difficult, man.

[Todd McShay]

It's more so than ever. But I just want to give people kind of a feel just as an overview. If we have those fits we can throw that that up to the edges were even less like it was even blurrier if you will right here. Yeah, muddier than the interior guys but those are the. So let's keep rolling. So those are the five techniques we'll get back to the def. The defensive tackles but those could be guys that play that 34 defensive end. Here's the base 34 outside linebackers and again Abdul Carter. Just like Micah Parsons could be a 34 outside backer. Could be an RDE and a 4 in a base form in front. Whatever you want. But Jalen Walker fits best as an. As an outside linebacker in a 3 4.

[Steve Levy]

Absolutely.

[Todd McShay]

As does Mike Green. James Pierce, Donovan Ezraku from Boston College. Braden Swinson, Femioladejo from ucla. Princely on Uman Me Ellen Ole Miss. Baron, Sorrel, Sorel.

[Steve Levy]

I was just looking at Sorel.

[Todd McShay]

Thank you.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, it was gonna correct you. Yeah, please do.

[Todd McShay]

Always do. We're getting closer. I can't.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Brandon Sorrell. Thanks. Dan Baron, Sorel and then Josiah Stewart. Okay, so then let's flip over to the other guys. Those are three, four backers that they fit best but they again, all of these guys can do multiple things. Shamar Stewart can play 4:3 he can stand up and rush off the edge. He can also play some five technique. Same with Mikel Williams. Georgia Nick Scorton. Here's what was interesting. We'll get to these in Landon Jackson and Jordan Birch are considered by a lot of people that I hear talking about these guys. Jackson from Arkansas, Birch from Oregon as five techniques.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, they played a lot of snaps there. If you look at pff and they and. And their body types appear to be that but my goodness, there's a difference in tape with both. Both those guys when they're outside the tackle versus face up five technique.

[Steve Levy]

I man, I don't. Listen, I don't know. I especially with Birch. I like him as that four eye inside shoulder against the run. He's a. What's interesting about him is that he's a much better edge pass rusher. Even though weighs 279 he's an outstanding edge rusher in my opinion. He's not great between the tackles rushing the passer and that's kind of what you think with these guys. Yeah, I wouldn't say terrible but I got you.

[Todd McShay]

I would say he's better.

[Steve Levy]

He's better on the outside. Much better on the outside. But when you're on when you're run heavy downs. I kind of like him inside the the tackle.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Steve Levy]

I'm higher on him than you. A lot higher. I like him a lot.

[Todd McShay]

We can agree to do it. I like his potential a lot. I I did not see can I watch I spent when we we finished taping our last podcast early evening last Wednesday. It is now Monday evening. I have done little besides eat, sleep and watching defensive lineman doesn't make mean that my evaluation is any better or lesser than yours. I have shut off the outside world. I spent a wonderful day with my kids on Saturday and outside of that, I have like immersed myself in these guys and I just, I saw differences. We'll get to them. Let's go back to the top seven edge guys. As we focus on these edges, here's what's fascinating to me. As an evaluator, you want things that are clean. There's nothing better than a clean evaluation where you go in to the GM or if you do what we do and you come on the air and you're able to say the talent is there, he belongs here in the draft and we don't have any external to worry about. Durability, character, whatever it is. The frustrating part, while this group could have seven in the first round, and I'm telling you, could be record setting in the first three rounds and throughout the draft, could be one of the best groups we've ever seen in terms of numbers and and quantity, volume. The tape is awesome. It's fun. I like had a blast the last five days. A blast. Interior and the edge guys, they all bring a little something different. Kind of dissecting what each guy does best, how they'd fit. Could be the most since 2012, right? Worst case, maybe it's just six. Not worst case, but even if it's six, it's most since 2016 with Miles Garrett, Solomon Thomas, Jonathan Allen, that group, good group. And this, this group is more talented than 2016 and it might be more talented than 2012. The thing that concerns me though is that this year's group comes with a lot of yeah butts. Let's go through them. There's yeah, but.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

As an evaluator, you want it to be clean in round one. There's nothing that's perfectly clean. Now, there's varying disagree, varying degrees of of the buts. Let's start with Abdul Carter. Next. Micah Parsons. Converted linebacker, Penn State. Where's 11? Explosive. We'll get to his evaluation in a minute, but size, Shoulder, foot. Jalen Walker. Explosive as hell. But is he the next Micah Parsons or is it a tweener? Right and thigh injury. Mike green, Tasmanian devil. 17 sacks. Explosive. Was great at the Senior Bowl. So it wasn't just level of competition but two sexual assault accusations. Shemar Stewart. All traits team. You want him walking off the bus? Blows up the combine. Great. Two days before graduating the Senior bowl but no production.

[Steve Levy]

True.

[Todd McShay]

James Pierce. Second best pass rusher in my opinion in this entire class in terms of plug in right now if I had to go get after the quarterback after Abdul Carter. In terms of development, explosiveness, the traits. James Pierce is the second best pass rusher in my opinion, but played the fewest snaps of all of these guys this past year on a really deep defensive line. Is he benefiting from being fresh? And there's a lot of outside noise, a paraphrase and we can get to him more in terms of his camp, people around him, the externals. And that's as you can probably just as a, as a draft detective seeing different lists where James Pierce was Talking about top 10 first. Long, long time. But now everyone's dropping him on their board. It's not because of his talent. His talent didn't change. His tape is freaking awesome.

[Steve Levy]

It's so much fun to watch.

[Todd McShay]

Go.

[Steve Levy]

He flies.

[Todd McShay]

Mikel Williams. Body beautiful. Clean as a whistle. Wants to learn, loves the game. Not as vocal as Jalen Walker, but just not a negative thing coming out of Athens or anywhere else about this guy. But will he ever reach his full potential? Was it his ankle this past year that prevented him? That injury he suffered against Clemson is kind of lingering throughout the season. Or is he just still got a a lot of developing to do. Then finally Donovan Azaraku, Boston College. Elite production, Long arms, refined hands, body control you dream of on a Ferrari cornering on rails. But he's six two and a half and he probably didn't run a 40 yard dash during the pre draft process and a lot of other people didn't. But are we hiding something there? So that's, that's the yeah buts and I'm not here to piss on the parade as they say but I'm just saying I, I because I think people here like oh my gosh McShay and these are the people are saying this is the best defensive line class ever. But nobody really has guys fly. It's not like we got three in the top six.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

There's. You know what I mean? There's. There's questions.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So let's jump on.

[Steve Levy]

I think that's all fair. All of that was fair to me.

[Todd McShay]

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[Steve Levy]

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[Todd McShay]

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[Todd McShay]

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[Todd McShay]

Let's start off Abdul Card and we're going to go lightning around here. And I really want to focus on. We all know they're really good. We can all read heights and weights and we can all do that stuff, right? Everyone's capable of it. What jumped out to us on tape, that's different. Whether it's good or bad, let's keep it moving. Abdul Carter, 734 snaps, right? Here's this guy that's the, you know, presumed top five pick. And then kind of as the season went on, I think everyone started talking number one overall, he's still out there grinding. Yeah, they played more games than others, but he was second behind Ezaruku from Boston College in terms of snaps. And I see the effort on tape and it's awesome. Now let's talk about the player. Explosive takeoff, elite dip in bend. That's where he just kills offensive tackles with his dip and his ability to bend. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

It's different. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Few humans on the planet, right, can turn the corner, dip under the arms of an offensive tackle and then accelerate through that corner. I want you again, going back to my, my quote earlier, listen carefully because I'm. I. I choose my words you don't like. With all the tape we've ever watched, there's not many guys I'm not saying he's the only one, but there's not many guys that you watch can. They can do this combination of things that can explode the way he can, to put pressure on offensive tackles, to get them on their heels, then dip around at that speed under offensive tackles with that body control and the bend and the flexibility it requires, and then accelerate out of the bend like Abdul Carter. And that's why he's different than everybody else. That. That's his true superpower, in my opinion. Then you add the fact that, like, the elite change your direction.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

You know, the outside in, inside out moves, and then the lightning slap, swat, rip. Like, he's just. He's. He's a nightmare. I mean, he's the. He's to me. And then. Yeah, the fact he plays his ass off. And. And I want to make this point because I haven't heard anyone make this point. I want people to realize that everything you see on tape and the polish and the explosiveness and the hands and the violence and all that stuff, and yes, he can continue to get better. He's just scratching the surface, man. He's only played 16 games as an edge in his life, as a true edge. Okay. So, I mean, I. I'm not saying it's Garrett, it's Watt, it's Parsons, but I'm saying he's next in line with a chance to be close to that group, and that's something you don't often see.

[Steve Levy]

I agree. I think that's. That's fair. And then you talk about that background as a linebacker, and you talk about simulated pressures and what you want to do in the NFL. Listen, I want that guy going after the quarterback every snap, but a big moment, you want to throw a quarterback off, he can drop into coverage and make plays, man, he. He moves that well. So that's just a little aspect of his game. And. And to me, a lot of guys can run fast, and so many players, I feel like, want to win with speed and show how fast they are around the corner. It's his ability to win with his hands, work back inside, track. The quarterback don't get. You know, a lot of speed rushers get too far afield. I think he does a good job of realizing when he's even with the quarterback working back inside. And then there's the run aspect, so the run defense. And it's. It's not elite. I'm not going to say it is elite. He's a leaner guy, but he is disruptive, and he is Tough. And he does play his ass off.

[Todd McShay]

All right, Jaylen Walker, number two on the list. What do you got?

[Steve Levy]

He's one of those guys that I talk about that scares me because of the size, because of the snaps that he's played, that he's played at off the ball, that he's played. An inside linebacker. Those two things are two things that you have to recognize and you have to talk about. And that was in your yut. So I guess we already kind of hit it a little bit. I'm taking the. Like, I'm like everyone else, though. I'm betting on this kid because the tape's that good. He's that explosive. I think he can overcome that coming off the edge. I don't. I think it's interesting that a lot of people list them as an inside linebacker. I don't think you draft an inside linebacker usually that high. I think it's unusual. I see him as an edge. His value is as an edge. You can use him in different ways, but I think his value is his ability to get after the quarterback and that's his explosiveness, his ability to get under guys. The way he closes, the way he chases. All of those are things that jumped out of me on tape.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. He's the most sudden athlete of all these guys that we're going to talk about. Couple other things. I've. I've got good sources close to that program. You want an alpha dog. You want like the guy and, and it's. It's kind of like the old days in Alabama. There was always that alpha. He's the alpha. And it's not. It's. It's a. It's a thing to be the Georgia alpha.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know, he also played punt coverage this entire season. Yeah, he loves the game.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Like, so if I'm a defensive line coach, I'm a defensive coordinator and I. And I'm looking at this. This beautiful chess piece, if you will, and a guy that can. I can play him off the ball in certain situations. I can play him at edge. I can do all those things. He better be smart as a whip. He better love the game. He better have a non stop motor. He better just want to be on the field and doing things, because I'm going to need that now. If he's some kind of diva or if he's a pain in the ass or he's nicked up a lot or those sorts of things, I'm less inclined to spend a premium pick on that kind of player. This dude opted in to punt coverage teams last year. He's Jalen Walker. You know what I mean?

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. He doesn't have to do that.

[Todd McShay]

Very. We've evaluated dozens of undersized guys that are quick and explosive and fast and all those things that have not turned out to be Hassan Reddick.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You got to have special traits to become Hassan Reddick.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And a special want and passion, and you got to be a little different. And I think he can be. Mike Green. I mentioned the. The two sexual assaults. I think it's very important to put context with that. Obviously, it was reported he was suspended from Virginia before transferring to Marshall.

[Steve Levy]

Just to be clear. Two accusations.

[Todd McShay]

Two accusations. Sorry. Two accusations.

[Steve Levy]

We're not. This is not what we do.

[Todd McShay]

So we try careful. And I appreciate you. And I'm going through this because I'm going to read a little bit here to make sure that we cover it correctly. It's been reported that he was accused of sexual assault twice. Once in high school and one anonymous accusation at uva. I would never bring any of this up if it was not center of attention in the combine, But I just want to make sure that if you're only tuning in here or you haven't heard any of that. This was covered at the combine. He was very open speaking about it because he wants to make sure that his voice is heard and that his side of the story is hurt. Okay. And he did that at the combine. When addressing the accusations there, he said, quote, I've never been questioned. I've never been asked, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, nobody ever asked me a question about what happened before I departed from Virginia. It was just accusations that caused me to leave from there. Okay. So that's what. We have led the FBS in sacks this past year. Dominant at the Senior Bowl, Blistering fast time in the 3 cone. 685. Like elite. Elite. Also a 425 at pro day. Ton of snaps at Marshall. 719 just behind the last two guys I mentioned as Araku and. And Abdul Carter at 766 and 734, respectively. Here's what I got real quickly on him. He's a wide seven, wide nine edge in the NFL. Get him outside, let him play in a little bit of space. Give him a little bit of a Runway. He's more powerful than I expected.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know, 6, 3, 2, 5, 1. And. And I was watching him right after I was watching Jaylen Walker and after Abdul Carter, he's got some snap in his Hands. And there's a couple guys like that.

[Steve Levy]

In this class that are undersized but.

[Todd McShay]

Really win with power, violence and suddenness in his hands is what I said. Change of direction skills. You saw it in the three cone. You see it on tape. I think he's got a chance to be really good. I think he's suited as a three, four outside linebacker.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Serve in that. Like the Cowboys have four three edge. Keep them wide. I gave a comp of Nick Benito, and I almost feel like it's lesser than. But I also want to remember this isn't Nick Bonito coming out of Oklahoma. This is Nick bonito with the 13 and a half sacks last year. It's the same, almost identical height arm, right. He's 10 pounds heavier at this same point in the development, but a similar type of role and potential in terms of sack production.

[Steve Levy]

I don't hate it. I like it. I mean, that Josh Connolly rep at the Senior bowl that. I mean, everyone who's there and everyone who's watched it has talked about where he just runs over. Josh Connerly is not a fluke. That is who he is as a pass rusher. He can run right through you. Now again, we talk about Abdul Carter superpowers, you know, the bend and Mike Green superpower is probably speed to power. But then the reason these guys are so high is they. They branch off of it. Everything branches off of that. That's what he. That's what he starts with, and that's his base. But he also wins with his hands. He can also dip at the top of his rush. So there's. There's these things that they're really good at, but they. There's more elements to their game.

[Todd McShay]

My favorite was my take came in on Saturday, my son and he. He's good for like three plays on tape. I'm pulling it back up. You know what I mean?

[Steve Levy]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Tape. You want to watch Tate, you want to watch this guy? It's Mike Green. He's from Marshall, Virginia Tech. I'm pulling up the play now. He comes in and I think it was the first play of the cut up against Virginia Tech. Like the first second or. Here we go. No, it wasn't the first play. This is really good. I'm gonna find it, though. There it is.

[Steve Levy]

Run somebody over.

[Todd McShay]

So it's. It's the second play of this cut up of his key plays. It's the first quarter. Eduardo can find. It's the first quarter. 557 left against Virginia Tech. Oh, yeah. Great. Comes off the edge, quick move, rips down the quarterback. Quarterback throws it in the sideline at the very end. But then he does that climb after his celebration. That's the only thing that my son picked up on. All right, Shamar Stewart, Texas A and M. I'll let you go on him because I talked a lot about Shemar.

[Steve Levy]

We've talked a lot about him. And I. And I still feel like this is. He's the case study of production versus talent. And it's. And it. And you see it on tape, it is. It's almost like, how is he not getting more sacks? How is he not getting to the quarterback? You watch the Missouri tape. We've talked about it ad nauseam. I'm going to talk about it again. He's throwing two offensive linemen aside with one arm. I mean, he has unique traits and the tape is good. The tape is way better than the production, but it is the production. It's going to scare anyone, scare people. I mean, he just did not put up big numbers. That. And yes, he played with talent on a talented defensive line. And yes, you know, that's kind of, you know, maybe take some of that away because other guys are getting to the quarterback, too. He should have had bigger numbers. It's still it. It is baffling to me that he didn't have bigger numbers because again, when you're talking about the power he has coming off the edge, his ability to run guys over, his ability, his ability to throw guys aside, you know, Allah, Reggie White, the way he can do that is impressive. Why are those numbers so low? I just can't. I don't get it.

[Todd McShay]

I'm. I'm speaking generally here with smart Stewart. Scouts don't like him.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And, and, and if you take a step back and you think about the process and, and everyone's role in it, it kind of makes sense because if you go out and you put your, Your name on the table, you put his name and you punch it down and you're pounding the table and he turns out to be a guy that isn't. Because it's a projection with him. Right. Coaches, though, get involved in the process and they see some of the things and they're like, they're. It's not on them. Well, the gm, you know, the scouts brought him in. I'm just doing the best I can with them until he's a star, and then it's like I developed him. Right.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So it's not surprising. A lot of the conversations I have tend to lean negative with Shemar Stewart with, with scouts in the league. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Right. I heard there. I, I remember a guy in the league told me one time that there was a scout who always brought up these players that were high ceiling players and the GM would say to him man, you love guys that don't make plays. And it was kind of a devil's advocate thing. But it's, it's true. Like we all get caught up on it and you know Al Davis at the Raiders is obviously the most obvious of a guy with the height, weight, speed. You know it seemed like that was how their board was set up practically.

[Todd McShay]

Speed, Speed.

[Steve Levy]

Right, speed. So everyone gets caught up in it. But I mean when you production's a thing it's a. There's a reason why it's at the very top of all of our reports. Did this guy like what did he do at the college level?

[Todd McShay]

He's a fascinating case study. Trayvon Walker's the last one that's kind of similar to him and John Dorsey.

[Steve Levy]

I think Trayvon Walker had better numbers too.

[Todd McShay]

Trayvon Walker said has been good. He's a damn good run defender. He's a good player. He ain't Aiden Hutchinson.

[Steve Levy]

No.

[Todd McShay]

So he put his neck on the line and now John Dorsey. Not because of that, but part of the resume. John Dorsey lost his job this off season. Right, right. Here's the thing with Stuart. I'll give you the traits are stupid. I mean the top end speed is rare. Top five results in the 4459 at 652657 pounds 34 and an eighth inch like ever. All these other guys are 32 to 33 and change arm length. His is 3034 and an eighth. Okay. He. And with that size he runs the fourth fastest 40 at 459. The third fastest 10 yard split. We talk about that, that line. If you get one six zero or under like sign me up. That was Bill Polian sing when he was trying to beat build the get closers and the pass rushers. He 160. Don't talk to me. Don't bring him. Because we're playing inside a dome. We got Peyton on offense. We're going to get a lead. We need closers 160. He's a 158 at 267 bench. Okay then the broad jump is 1011 best in class. Vertical jump 40 inches, second best in class. I think he's an outstanding run defender. Run defender. I think you can play him a five technique. I think he sets A hard edge. I think he's. And yes, there should be more tackles. It seems to be a recurring theme. But he's a damn good run defender right now and that travels to the NFL.

[Steve Levy]

Right. Right.

[Todd McShay]

So. And here's the thing. We watched some of the tape together when we were down in Mobile. He's disruptive as hell. 33 hurries this past year. Okay. But he's not productive. Disruptive, not productive. He had one and a half sacks. That lack of production is frightening. We've been talking about this. But with the bend he has and those numbers I just read to you, the power. And power travels to the NFL. I'd much rather a guy with power than a just a pure speedster burner off the edge. And then you watch him against guys like. Like Armand Menboo. Pushed him around on a few reps. Will Campbell backed Will Campbell up a couple times but didn't finish.

[Steve Levy]

And am I crazy? It's not a. It's not an effort issue, is it? Like, I don't see it as an effort issue. I think he's got a good motor.

[Todd McShay]

I don't. Here's the thing I want to see from him. Be the aggressor. This is the thing I wrote down from my notes. Be the aggressor. Why is it that my guys got 34 inch, 34 plus inch arms and we're letting offensive tackles get into our body first? Drives me freaking nuts. Also needs more consistent plan. That's going to be. You get this guy in the right D line group veterans working on technique, little things and the right defensive line coach and he's got a chance to be an absolute star. I think he could be a Daniel Hunter who's now with the Texans, who's a third round pick in 2015. Similar traits. Similarly poor production. He had just Danil Hunter coming out of LSU his final year. He had one and a half sacks. The difference, he had two hurries. I just told you 33 for this guy.

[Steve Levy]

Two. Wow. He only had two hurries. That's crazy.

[Todd McShay]

What I. I looked up. All right. Mikel Williams. Not all that different in terms of what we're dealing with here.

[Steve Levy]

No. Can I tell you something about him that.

[Todd McShay]

Go ahead. All you.

[Steve Levy]

It is clear that he is hurt on some of these tapes. I mean, it is clear he's running after guys and limping. I think for whatever it's worth, he deserves a ton of credit for staying in the fight as long as he did. I mean, I think he easily and other players would have tapped out a long time ago. I think there was no question that he played hurt. The fact that he put up the numbers, I think he had his best year. I know they weren't great numbers. I think he had his best year this year. That the first Texas game. If you're a scout going to a GM's office, you're like, oh, let's just throw this on. These are the two Texas offensive tackles that might go on the top hundred one. Mike is probably gonna go in the, you know, it may probably gonna go in the first round. Let's see how he does against those guys. He's outrageous in that game. And, and like I said, I, you have to factor in that ankle.

[Todd McShay]

I'm betting on him, man.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, you get some of these mocks. I think he's going way too low. I like way too low.

[Todd McShay]

I'm betting on him and I have. It's funny because they're all different players. They have all different journeys and traits and, and production and everything else. I just think there's a bunch of damn good edge rushers that, yeah, they don't belong in the top five, maybe top 10. But you give me Mike Green and I'm like, okay, you give me, you give me Mikel Williams. Let's go to work. You give me Shamar Stewart, let's go to work. Let's get him where he needs to go, where there's ton to work. You give me James Pierce because I know this, I know with, with, with Mikel and with Stuart before him, they're. They're great run defenders, right? They're gonna play hard. They're great run defenders. Mikel had four and a half sacks as a freshman. He was like this breakout guy, but never was able to get over the top. Thought this year would be that year, ankle injury against Clemson, all of that. But he's got the motor, he's got natural ability to keep his hands and legs moving through contact and he's going to be a damn good run defender from day one. So I, so I know at least I'm getting something right away while we develop the other part. Then you get to. James Pierce talked about it. There's some stuff that's going to make him drop and that I've talked to people who had interviews with him and they loved meeting with him and he's a good guy one on one and in a small group. And I've heard stories of the externals and a lot of noise, a lot of in his life that he's got to be able to extract. To sum it all up. And I've got another full page of stuff in here.

[Steve Levy]

Page, Right.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Of just stuff that he needs. He's going to have to grow up and extract. But I'm telling you, I'm in love with him on tape.

[Steve Levy]

And how can you not be?

[Todd McShay]

The effort, the pass rushing, the refinement, first step, explosiveness is. Is awesome. Ran a four, four, seven, mensch at 245 pounds. Six, five and a quarter. Has room in his frame to grow. Combine best 4, 4, 7. Also combine. Best 10 split a 156. We talked about 1, 5, 8. Outrageous. He ran a 1, 5, 6.

[Steve Levy]

That's like wide receiver territory.

[Todd McShay]

It's unworldly.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Keeps offensive tackles in a constant panic. He is mature, technically savvy pass rusher. Sudden ties his feet. Hands beautifully when he has the right plan. Doesn't always. He's still growing, but you give him a little speed, too. Like a little Runway to speed power. He's got a little juice there. Yeah, I just. Listen, I can go on with this. The quotes I have and all the stuff, the external factors in his life, a lot of. In his background, a lot of influences in his life. And noise in the background. I mean, these are all quotes. Okay. But I want to make it perfectly clear that if Pierce came as a clean prospect and there was none of that, I would have him as the number two edge in this class, behind only.

[Steve Levy]

No question.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Steve Levy]

No question.

[Todd McShay]

I think Brian Burns is a decent comp for him.

[Steve Levy]

Oh, I like that one. That's a really good one.

[Todd McShay]

Donovan, Ezra Rocku, Boston College. Take it away. All yours is your guy.

[Steve Levy]

You know, you kind of. You kind of stole my thunder early on. I. I do like that he's. Although he's a smaller guy, he has excellent length, but it's that. It's the polish, it's the hands. It's a change of direction. He can get you going one way and then he's going to come back and go the other way. He gets guys off balance. He's NFL ready. In my mind, the frame you wish he was a little bit bigger. You're gonna put him as a 3, 4 outside linebacker. I think he's going to be fine in that role. I think he's tough against the run. He's got the. The length to keep guys off his body. Not only as a pass rusher, but in the run game. So to me, you're gonna look at him, you're gonna say he's A little bit smaller. But when you watch the tape and you see how good he is as a technician and then you. I mean, I know he didn't run. I, I'm not really worried about it. I think he, I mean he's plenty quick on tape.

[Todd McShay]

I think he's gonna go in the first round. And I think you were right all along with him.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And, and I think part of it is, yes, he didn't, he didn't run the 40, but he's the only pass rusher to combine rubbing running a sub 7 second 3 cone. Actually he's the only passer from period who ran a sub second three cone.694. And then combine that with the 34 inch arm. 16 and a half sacks last year. FBS best for Ezra.

[Steve Levy]

That's. I was just looking it up right.

[Todd McShay]

Now, 1.38 sacks per game. And now you see why. He's one of the, the top risers from this edge class. Also team captain, elite intangibles. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

He had 80. He had 80 tackles. He had 80 tackles last year. You could talk about the tackles for loss and all. That's great. He led the ACC in tackles for loss. The sack numbers are great. 80 tackles for, for an edge. That's an impressive number. Man.

[Todd McShay]

I agree. Braden. Braden Swinson, lsu. He's my new crushing, my new crush. Mitch.

[Steve Levy]

I like him.

[Todd McShay]

I'm gonna let you get to Nick Scorton because I, I'm not as high on Scorton.

[Steve Levy]

He's falling on my board too, but okay.

[Todd McShay]

Braden Swenson from lsu. I'm not gonna. We're running out of time. As always. Five year player, first three to Oregon, last two at lsu. Finally had his breakout year that a lot of people expected coming out of high school and all that. 58 tackles, 13 for loss, 8 and a half sacks, 3 pass breakups, 2 force fumbles last year. Here's what I'm telling you about him. He's a 3, 4 outside linebacker all day long. His hands are what separate him from a lot of guys. I think he's. And it's interesting because he didn't have that breakout year into this year. And, and, but his hands, his swipe, his slap, his push pull, his rip, dip and bend are good too. Torso flexibility, strength to advance the rush while engaged blitzes. He lines up all over the place too. A and B gaps, drops into coverage. Okay. He's, he's, he's not as much speed to power as he is craftsman. Working through blocks, hands keeping guys off his body. I went with Kyle Van Noy. Ooh, thank you.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, you got some good ones today. Look at you.

[Todd McShay]

NASCAR package, off the ball, edge rusher. He's. Listen, he's not going to set a hard edge. It's not his jam. He's got to be kind of on the move to be effective as a run defender, but he'll lock out, locate fast hands, disregards, blocks, all that stuff. But Kyle Van Noy, it's, you know.

[Steve Levy]

Things aren't going well in Baton Rouge when you've got an LSU edge that seems to be flying under the radar.

[Todd McShay]

Is that crazy, this guy?

[Steve Levy]

And they've got two. I mean, they've got two defensive linemen who are. The other one's Savion Jones, who I we should get to in a minute. But they've had two guys kind of flying, flying on the radar. I think Scorton, by the way, falls a little bit into that range of the Craftsman too. He's kind of the anti Shemar Stewart, way more productive. I don't think he's quite as talented. He led the Big Ten in sacks when he was at Purdue in 2023 and then he was third in the SEC and tackles for loss, gets off blocks, he makes plays. I don't think he's as dominant. He's not as big as I thought he was. Well, he was listed at, at Texas A and m in the 270s or 280s and then he weighed 257 at the combine, so he wasn't quite as big. And I was like, oh, now it makes sense that this guy's moving the way he is. Good player. I think he goes in the second round. I just don't think he's as. As dominant as I thought he was earlier on.

[Todd McShay]

Femio Adejo, ucla We're now on our two guys and I'm still talking about guys who could. This is your guy. I love him. He's probably going to go in the third round. I've got an 80 on him right at the end of the second. I think he's. Listen, he's an off the ball linebacker for three years. Converts to edge this past year. Played a couple seasons at Cal, a couple seasons at ucla. Energy, leadership just is what he brings to the field. It stood out at the Senior Bowl. The conversations I've had finished with only four and a half sacks this past year, but like kind of a breakout first year at edge. 57 tackles, 13 and a half for loss.

[Steve Levy]

I think he got better over the course of the season too.

[Todd McShay]

I did.

[Steve Levy]

He was kind of like a, you know, a deer on ice a little bit earlier on and then it, it just started to ramp up for him. The more, the longer it went.

[Todd McShay]

I totally agree because early in the tape I was like maybe I'm a little too high. But then towards the end he's standing guys up.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Right when he learned he is powerful. Like some of these guys are speed, right. This dude at £259 63, you think off ball, linebacker, he's probably going to be like a little bit like Jaylen Walker. He's more power man. He's got a powerful core. He fights through blocks. He's a violent tackler. He fits in like that 3, 4 scheme that's looking for power at the edge like the Eagles have. Right. Like the Steelers have, the Panthers, the Rams who's got like Jared Ver like the, they want power to set that edge and rush off the, the edge. Here's the deal with him. When he learns after his ability to jack guys up and kind of get them back a little bit offensive tackles, when he learns how to exploit those off the off balance tackles with his hands and counter moves, that's when he's going to become the next maybe JX Hunt.

[Steve Levy]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

You like that?

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. There we go.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Steve Levy]

But he's got the most important part to that. Right. Not a lot of guys can do. Can get the, the first part done. Can get guys off balance with that kind of power. There's not a lot of guys like that. So it's. It's not something that you can't fix or it's not going to get better. Especially when you consider one that he wasn't playing the position a year ago and two again, I don't know how you go to a, to a se. To the Senior bowl where the best of the best are and within 48 hours you are the guy that people are gravitating towards. When you're not the guy that walked in as the. Is the guy who's going to be a top 10 pick. I mean the leadership in the, in the way he carried himself down there, I mean stood out. It was hard to ignore.

[Todd McShay]

There's so many other guys to get to. We just can't. I mean you've got one more. I want to touch on Landon Jackson because I spent a lot of time on him. But you got, you got Jtui Molo, right From, from Ohio State and his compadre captain Jack Sawyer Princely oh, man. Me, Ellen from Ole Miss and his counterpart, Jared Ivy. There's. There's just a bunch of guys, but I watched a lot of Landon Jackson and some people in the league of my. In my ear on one side of the explosiveness and his ability and his versatility and all those things. And the other guys in my ear who are just recently paraphrased not to be a jerk, but kind of soft versus the run. Don't. Don't like him. And here's what I saw. Outstanding workout of the combine. 6, 6, 2, 6 4.

[Steve Levy]

Insane.

[Todd McShay]

468. Was tied for 8, 8th. But his vertical jump was the best. 40 and a half. 10, 9 broad jump, second best convert speed to power. Here's the thing I like about him, though. He's this big dude and he's got some power and some strength to work through. He's got this slippery little sidestep before he gets the offensive tackle. He kind of keeps them off balance. I. I'm going to summarize it. I think he. I can't really be myself, but like, you can have him as a five technique inside and all that stuff.

[Steve Levy]

You don't like him there, huh? I like them there.

[Todd McShay]

I think. I think if utilized specifically, he's actually way better on the right side than the left. Not to get in the nitty gritty, but inside, outside the tackle, shoulder standing up, this guy's a pretty damn good football player. You move them inside the five technique. I'm not in. I'm not in.

[Steve Levy]

Interesting. Yeah, I like it. I will say, just to be really quick about this, this combine was a Track meet. And 468 for a 264 pound player is insane. Like, we could say it was the eighth best and it kind of waters it down of like, oh, he was the only. The eighth best of the combine. No. 4, 6, 8 with a 40 and a 1/2 inch vertical at 264 pounds. Dear Lord.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we're like 1314 deep. I mentioned Jack Sawyer. Savion Jones, LSU. Jordan Birch.

[Steve Levy]

Love Savon Jones.

[Todd McShay]

Baron. Baron Sorel, Texas. Josiah Stewart, Michigan. Like. And we're not even out of the third round yet. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Ash from Louisville. Yes, stud.

[Todd McShay]

The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NFL Draft is here, and if you want to make every pick a little bit more exciting, FanDuel is where it's at. The app is simple, secure, and packed with exclusive offers. Plus, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. No waiting around. And if you think the Draft is just about waiting to hear names called. Think again. With FanDuel, you can bet on pick positions, which team will draft a player, exact orders, top five and top 10 picks, and a ton more, including some ringer specials. As we get closer to the draft, I'm going to give you some home runs, but for now, there are a couple things that are catching my eye. First of all, wide receiver. I think Matthew golden should be the first receiver off the board. Tetaroa McMillan is the favorite. He's at minus 290 right now. You can get plus 200 for Golden. Then at cornerback, same deal. Will Johnson's the favorite to come off the board. First, I've got Jedi Baron from Texas, and at that number, plus 140. I'd go with the Texas corner. And right now, new customers can bet just $5 and get 200 in bonus bets if you win. So before the draft kicks off, download the FanDuel app and get ready to make every moment unforgettable. FanDuel official partner of the NFL, must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only. $5. First deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com all right, Interior defensive lineman. Let's throw up the graphic if you're still awake back there. Tucker, 20, 25 versus three year average. Okay, we talked about biggest difference to me, rounds two and three. Okay, we got Mason Graham early. Then you're going to start to see this little run at the end. Whether it's Derek Harmon, Walter Nolan, Kenneth Grant. Maybe two or three of those guys come off the board with Mason Graham. But then as I mentioned, Darius Alexander, Ty Leak Williams, Shemar Turner, Joshua Farmer, Omar Norman, Lot Alfred Collins, TJ Sanders, Tyrion Ingram Dawkins, Ty Robinson, Nebraska. Like, it's just ridiculous. Okay, so the biggest difference when you look at that graphic though is rounds two and three. Three year average is 6.7 in those two rounds. I have 13 interior defensive linemen graded in rounds two and three. That's twice as many folks. So some third round guys will be available on day three is basically the takeaway of this. And there's going to be guys if you don't get your interior defensive defensive lineman the first round or the second round, they're still dudes in the third and fourth. Yeah, there were 10. There were 10 defensive tackles taken in the first two rounds in 2010. That was the Sioux and Gerald McCoy year. Remember?

[Steve Levy]

Jeremy McCoy was so good.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So was Sue.

[Steve Levy]

Yes. Who was great. But man, I love McCoy.

[Todd McShay]

I liked McCoy's tape more than Seuss, but I. But I adored both of them. A couple times we've seen. So that was. So go back to 2010. Right. We've seen that was 10 in the first two rounds a couple times. We've seen nine in the first two rounds in the past 20 years, but we've never seen 11 in the first two rounds. That's what we've got right here. So even if it's just 10 like that Sue McCoy year was awesome. So that's what we're looking at in 22. Interior defensive lineman grade in the first four rounds is 10 more than three, three year average. So tons of value here. Mason Graham, we're. Let me put it this way. Graham. Is that as advertised? Yeah. His arm. Yeah. Arms are shorter than you want from a top five pick. Yeah. Like he doesn't look the part coming off the bus.

[Steve Levy]

It looks like a monk. You're like, he's got that monk haircut.

[Todd McShay]

And just like the body. Like it's not what you, you think about the Dominican Sues. You think about, you know.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Like John Henderson and Casey Hampton. Like, you know, and then you look at Mason Graham, you're like, huh. But I'm going to tell you this, here's my biggest takeaway. He would make a grown ass man as a defensive line coach, sitting in his dark office watching tape shed a tear.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

He is literally like everything you want in a guy. I want you to think back. So we mentioned I went to Richmond. You see the Richmond helmet over my shoulder. Went to the Richmond Spiders. We had a defensive coach who was D line coach to start. Then he was defensive coordinator. Okay. Joe Cullen is his name. Absolute maniac and one of my favorites I've ever come across. Couldn't stand for a while. Then we finally started to hit it off. He was a. Like a lunatic. He so Mark.

[Steve Levy]

I think he still is.

[Todd McShay]

I love him, but I also want people to understand he's now the Kansas City Chiefs defensive line coach and he's been to several spots, including the Baltimore Ravens. Like he knows what he's doing. I used to listen to him running scout team over like 200 yards away on the other field. Listen to him screaming at Mark Megna, who's a dear friend of ours.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Who was drafted like Mark Megna was, as he would say, a fat little kid from. From Fall River, Massachusetts.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Fall river, to my knowledge, has produced two great things. Chris Heron, basketball, and Mark Magna. You don't. You don't come out of Fall river very often and get a. A full ride to go play. Go play football. And then. And then to beat more odds, he clings on to this guy named Joe Cullen, and he. He literally follows him around every single day. And he's, like, walking from class to class. I'm watching him rip, swim, dip, swat, like, moves on all of us as he walks by us, you know?

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Picked up every little bit of craft, everything that was being handed from him, from Joe. Joe Cullen, who was just a. He was a UMass graduate. It came to Richmond to coach defensive lineman. Turns out now he's. He's in the NFL for, like, 15 years or so now, winning Super Bowls.

[Steve Levy]

One of the best.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, one of the best. He had the green. He started the green ball craze at the combine. Okay. So I watched a human being come from this kid in Fall River, Massachusetts, who's kind of like, knowing. To get to Richmond. You don't go to Richmond to go to the NFL. Very few dollars. We're fortunate to have a few guys that did. Sean Bar. Mark Magna on that defensive side, he picked up every little thing. Paris Lennon. Yep. But he picked up every little detail. And how did he do that? He did it by an insane human being in Joe Cullen screaming bloody murder all day long about violence. Violence. He's from Malden. Malden or Medford. I forget Massachusetts. Like, ma. Mark, get your hand work at violence. Violently screaming. Right, but.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, but.

[Todd McShay]

And I could hear Mark yelling back, come on, come on. Like, going nuts. Right? Yeah, but that's how they. That's how they communicated. Screaming and yelling and intensity and violence and hands and all the little things that they worked on constantly. Then we would get to games before the games, and Mark would come in, and it would be like, you know, into this trance like a zombie and ready to go out, kill somebody. And you were literally worried that if you, like, stepped on his cleat or something. Right.

[Steve Levy]

You stay out of his way.

[Todd McShay]

You might wind up in the hospital. And then Joe Cullen comes in pregame, and. And players have been throwing up in the trash can, and Joe Cullen throws up in the trash can, and he's throwing the trash can around the. The locker room and screaming, red Rum. Murder. Murder. And Mark's like, yeah, coach, and. And go out and would execute all these Little fin. So I say all that and I literally am sitting here in this dark room watching this tape. And I'm watching now. I'm stacking all these guys and I'm refined and I know exactly what I'm looking and I'm watching. I'm like, Joe Cullen would shed a tea.

[Steve Levy]

Oh, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

This is what it's supposed to look like. And that's why in a class that doesn't have elite talent at the top, he may not be body beautiful. He may not. He didn't run a 40. He had a little nick. He doesn't have the long arms. You don't care. Because what he does translates to brilliance at the next level. That's my Coach Cullen story. Derek Harmon, Oregon.

[Steve Levy]

I was way too low on a man. I've come full.

[Todd McShay]

I was too. I'm glad you.

[Steve Levy]

I love them. I love them.

[Todd McShay]

I do, too. Go ahead, you tell your story.

[Steve Levy]

Well, my biggest beef is that I watched all of his sacks earlier in the year and I kind of felt like some of his sacks were like freebies, you know, I'm not gonna lie. I felt like he got some of these flush towards him or whatever. And then I went back and I watched every pass rush and I was like, oh, no, this guy wins a lot. This guy wins with his hands a lot. He is a talented pass rusher, and that's what separates a lot of these guys. To be clear, I think that's, you know, something we should point out with defensive tackles. A lot of good run stoppers, man. But who can get to the quarterback? Who's a guy that can stay on the field when. When that package comes in where they want to get after the quarterback or even can do it on first and second down. And for me, Derek Harmon, that's where he kind of sets himself apart. I got him as my number two defense tackle. Now he wins with his hands and he's athletic. He is a hell of a defensive tackle.

[Todd McShay]

He's got 34 and 3,38-inch arm length and he uses every bit of that length beautifully. Great job advancing the rush while engaged. When you have those long arms, you can advance it. Excuse me. While keeping. I can't even do the Red Rum murder story without, like having a reaction. They used to do it all day long. He's just slippery, too, as the more I watch, the more I appreciated 495. He runs 64 and a half, 313 pounds. But it's not even about the traits. It's what you're talking about. It's understanding working offense, half a man, offensive tackles, advancing rushes, his pass rush, win, win rate, mench for pff. And again I, I just this is context but 99th percentile. I I think I see a little Brian Brzee and remember BRZ got drafted.

[Steve Levy]

I love coming out. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But really liked his tape but hadn't quite put it together because he had been nicked up and stuff. Harmon. That's not the case. Plus I love the fact like the Jim Nagy story like hit the, the attention that he placed and he basically had a rebirth from Michigan State to Oregon. He's taking care of his body. He looks like a different human being from Michigan State. So the commitment is there. Here's another guy that I'm in love with and there's. I don't know exactly in the pinpointing but there's some mature decisions in the past kind of stuff. And, and I'm sure it's true. Here's what I'm going to tell you with James Pierce and with some of these guys and with Walter Nolan, who's the next guy up. I don't need a saint rushing my quarterback, man.

[Steve Levy]

No.

[Todd McShay]

As long as you're not worried about like something major and you feel like you've got some leadership in the building. I don't think his stuff is severe.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. I think people like to get stuck on things and I'm sure there's some maturing he's got to do like many other guys. But I know this when I put on his tape there ain't a thing wrong with his motor, his toughness, his commitment to the game. He's a menace versus the run. Okay. He can play three technique. He can play five technique. He's gotten better every year. Wound up with a career high 14 tackles for loss, 13 games in his only season at Ole Miss. I love the fact I can play him all over the defensive line. Okay. Now he's yet to develop. I'll give you this. If, if you're a detractor, if you're a guy who doesn't like him, I will give you this. While he's the most physically gifted, he might be the most physically gifted interior defensive lineman. He's up there in the conversation and he also has plenty of college experience at big time programs. But why hasn't he developed a high level pass rush in terms of his moves and his plan? That, that's the question. But if he gets with that right veteran group man where they're where teams are drafting at the end of the first round. You think about teams like, you know, teams that are winning organizations that have the right people in place. I think he could have kind of a Milton Williams type art.

[Steve Levy]

Who You've said his name yet?

[Todd McShay]

Walter Nolan.

[Steve Levy]

Did you say Walter Nolan? I thought you were saving for this big reveal at the end.

[Todd McShay]

Walter Nolan.

[Steve Levy]

Walter Nolan. Miss. This is my guy, man. And I'll say this. I get it a little bit with.

[Todd McShay]

The pass rush stuff.

[Steve Levy]

I think it's overblown. This dude had six and a half sacks last year. Yeah, he had six and a half sacks for a defensive tackle. Not a bad number, man. Six and a half sacks. That's pretty good to me. I get it. Has. Does he have all the tools to become a. A very productive interior passenger start in the league?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, absolutely. I just said he's. He's arguably he. He's not as long as. As. As Harmon, but like in terms of just like what you see like at like physically and how he merced and this strength and power on tape. On tape. He's up there is the. Was one of the most physically gifted guys in this class.

[Steve Levy]

It's a season of nitpicking. You're nitpicking if you're. If you're upset with Walter Nolan's pass rush right now. I just think you are.

[Todd McShay]

I get it.

[Steve Levy]

You could say. I think you could say what you said. It's not as polished as you wanted it to be right now. I think you'd say that about a lot of players coming out. There's a lot of guys that need to clean it up. But man, I think he can get after the quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

I think there's a lot of untapped stuff there too, man. Yeah.

[Steve Levy]

Ken, are we projecting or we have. Are we grading what he was in college or are we projecting what he's going to be in the NFL? NFL.

[Todd McShay]

There you go. Kenneth Grant, Michigan. Six, three and a half, 331 pounds. Runs a 507, which is pretty phenomenal. I thought he might run a little bit better.

[Steve Levy]

All the hype.

[Todd McShay]

He was. He's tough, man.

[Steve Levy]

He is tough.

[Todd McShay]

You can kind of have him, right? He's too high on him. He's ma. I dropped him down. He's the fourth defensive tackle for me. He's got all the traits and. And let's put it this way, okay. He picks his spots when he's truly going to turn it loose and when he does, in those moments, it's pretty awesome to watch. Okay. Size, power, when his pads are low enough mobility, there's some things. But keeping him fresh and improving his hand toand combat. Combat skills is going to be a part of it. He's massive. So he inevitably, inevitably, just due to his size is going to eat up a lot of space. Okay. He has a lot of impact snaps, but there are also a whole lot of snaps where it feels like he's just kind of going through the motions to get his. Remember that time we sat down with Teddy Bruskin and we were talking, I think, and he was talking about. Yeah, he's like, there's some guys that like to say, hey, coach. You know, they just get their arms up and they put it in for one half a sec, like a split second. They're like, take, coach, take a picture. I set a hard edge, but they're just not hard. Hard edge setting guys right. Yeah.

[Steve Levy]

He just leaves you wanting more. I want more. Even the workout left me wanting more. And it's a pretty good workout. But I wanted to see him. One, he didn't work out of the combine because a hamstring that they found there. It has nothing to do with some guys, I hear minor hamstrings. I'll be honest. And I'm like, maybe you just don't want to work out today. That was one they found at the combine and said, you know, where they were doing all their scans and they said, maybe not a good idea to work out right now. So that's in fairness to him. But I thought the. I thought he was going to run a sub 5. This guy's a freak, man. He's just going to be the biggest freak ever. And he's. And he. Don't get me wrong.

[Todd McShay]

Crazy. There was a lot of like, there's a player too, where you're like, oh, I haven't seen that since the. Jordan Davis. There's like a player, too, when he's chasing down a running back and he's right.

[Steve Levy]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But like, get out of here with that. Jordan Davis ran a 4 7, 8 at 341 right. And showed. I don't know. So I think he could go late first. The traits are there. There's a lot to work with, but again, we got to.

[Steve Levy]

I'm not taking him in the first.

[Todd McShay]

Darius Alexander. I like him. There's work still to be done coming out of Toledo. Loved him at the Senior Bowl. He was awesome.

[Steve Levy]

I think you can move him up and down the line.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely. Absolutely. He's a three technique that can play multiple spots along the defensive. I love his length, explosive first step and natural power. Really nice dip bend flexibility. You don't see many guys that can do some of those things that he did okay. But his lack of sack production is kind of frustrating, you know.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah. Yep. I That's right.

[Todd McShay]

My Toledo. 26 games, 1313 tackles for loss, 7 1/2 sacks. Why yeah. Now we get into the pre draft process and we're inching closer to it. Pit game. Awesome.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Picks pick six cause was part of causing another pick six.

[Steve Levy]

Yes. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Right. Combine workout. I mentioned six. Almost six four three zero five four nine five he had the Senior bowl week fourth best ten yard split third best or fourth best three cone. Right. Great Senior bowl week. All part of the pre draft. Not in chronological order. I really like him. I really like him. But I'll say this like he's gonna near. I think he's gonna need a year to sharpen his blades. I think he's a future impact three technique that can move around. I think you're gonna want to draft him in the second round probably and have him in a rotation but not counting on him to step right in and be that guy right away.

[Steve Levy]

Way yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Home run day two pick Ty Williams, another guy very interesting to me. He's massive. £334 and almost six foot three.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I'll just leave it at this. Despite that frame he's actually better suited I think in to play nose tackle in a one gap.

[Steve Levy]

Interesting.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think he's like the space eating two gap.

[Steve Levy]

Oh no no. I agree with that.

[Todd McShay]

He's he keep him fresh limited snaps. Okay. But his like it's kind of jaw like you and I both our jaws were dropping watching that combine workout. The way he moves and I'll say this like it comes in spurts but I think he could be a high impact player if he's used properly and and playing in rotation. I think round two I dropped these big strong balanced grown ass men. More often than not they translate. Now there is a amazing Smith for every reader and Duron Payne. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But I think DJ Reader is a decent comp.

[Steve Levy]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Because a one gap nose tackle penetrate move around. Not going to play him 100 snaps again game.

[Steve Levy]

You think you can get to the.

[Todd McShay]

Quarterback some or at least move him off his spot. He moved five and a half sacks last year.

[Steve Levy]

I was a little underwhelmed with the.

[Todd McShay]

Or five and a half sacks last two years. Sorry.

[Steve Levy]

I was a little underwhelmed with the pass rush when I thought he was A better pass rusher coming into the year. And then when I went back and looked at all the pass rush snaps, it was a little underwhelmed with him because he does move well. I thought he was going to be more of a factor there. Outstanding run defender though. Outstanding.

[Todd McShay]

All right, I'm gonna rip through some of these guys because we've gone long and you jump in wherever you want. Shamar Turner come. He's got the injury dealing with that. Had a rod inserted his leg that required surgery. Sat at the combine workouts Participated in position drills only at the recent Texas A M pro day. About a week, five days ago maybe.

[Steve Levy]

He'S a great 2023 tape.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. Awesome.

[Steve Levy]

Greatest 2023 tape. That's. That's what I would do with him.

[Todd McShay]

One gap inside interior defensive lineman. I just watched it. I love his position versatility. I think it's going to appeal to a lot of teams. On day two played multiple spots at A M very clearly suited to be a one gap penetrator. Whether I liked it because everyone's like he's a three technique. And yeah, he can play some firing through that B gap. But I really liked him as a one gap. Like a shaded nose.

[Steve Levy]

Right. You can do both. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Like the, the one, you know, slight frame, won't hold his ground versus double teams. Saw that on tape a lot. But his combination of lightning quick hands, fast eyes to locate the ball, long arms, big hands, first frame, relentless motor. I. He just appeals to those teams that are looking for that. You know, the penetrating, disruptive types. Namdi Matabwike, Ravens was a. Was.

[Steve Levy]

That's a good. I mean that's. Yeah, that's not a bad comp for a kid.

[Todd McShay]

Joshua Farmer I've got as the eighth defensive tackle. We're still in round two. I could see a role. He was a little different. 633-05-35 inch arm. Yeah, that's like.

[Steve Levy]

That's a thing, man.

[Todd McShay]

That's a thing. And this is. And that's part of. I think his greatest assets are his length, leverage and power. I think you make a really good five technique.

[Steve Levy]

Don't disagree.

[Todd McShay]

I think he can play a little three can be disruptive a little bit. But I like him with his power. Lock those long ass arms out and work from there. Locate the ball, work from there. I. Here's what, here's what I would say with him. His arrow's still pointing up. I think he's going to still get better, but I don't see an extraordinary ceiling right he's gonna get better.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's not right. Chris Jenkins, Bengals is who I gave him for a cup.

[Steve Levy]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Here's the last guy I'll get to. And you can go through anyone else you want. Omar Norman, lot, who I obviously thank.

[Steve Levy]

God, man. I was afraid you were going to bring him up.

[Todd McShay]

I got him in our guy. Undersized 6. Just under 6.

[Steve Levy]

2.

[Todd McShay]

A shade under 6. 2. 291 pounds. Good arm length, 33¾ for his, especially for that frame. Massive hands. He's a different evaluation, though, right? Because he played less than half of the snaps that the other guys played. And so you don't get the. The catalog of plays, first of all. Second of all, he's a lot fresher when he's on the field, so you get to kind of account for that because Brandon Graham played 548. Grant played 547. Harmon played 5, 591. Nolan played 587. Alexander at Toledo played 630. Ty Leak played 586. Farmer played 513. He played less than half of those guys, 225 snaps. So that was. It's interesting, right?

[Steve Levy]

But he's got athletic traits.

[Todd McShay]

He's got athletic traits and he's got power and he's going to succeed in the NFL because he's a three technique who. I just love the energy he brings to the field. I loved watching him work in practice and the details he was working on. And yes, he's going to get knocked off his feet sometimes. Yes, he needs to broaden his pass rush arsenal, but you bring him in as a one gap guy and work him in a starting rotation, allow him to stay fresh, sharpen those tools as a pass rusher, you might just have Kobe Turner on your hands.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, I could see that. I love him. I mean, he. I mean, you were the first one to, like, really kind of bring attention to him and. Yeah, I was. I'm glad you got to him. I have him as my seventh best defensive tackle. I think he's that good. Can I tell you someone I was.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Levy]

You got someone else? I was gonna say someone I was underwhelmed with.

[Todd McShay]

Go.

[Steve Levy]

I'll go. I'll go negative. And then positive. Jordan Phillips from Maryland, Underwhelming tape, man. Underwhelming production. Underwhelming tape. He was someone that I thought coming into because, I mean, he's a former wrestler, he's a former bodybuilder. You see the. The way he's built. He's built to be a nose tackle. I mean he is just born to be a nose tackle. And then I just don't think he gives you much against the pass rush. I think he's got to get better at getting off blocks. I remember I was watching the tape and I kept thinking, when is this going to start to happen? And you know, about halfway through you're like, yeah, I don't, I don't think it is very underwhelmed. I think he's going to be a mid day three guy. I think he's going to drop a little bit on my board. But also the Ole Miss disrespect, man. I know you mentioned Jared Ivey, the defensive end. My guy. Defensive tackle J.J. bees, another guy that I think.

[Todd McShay]

Did you hear how he was announced at the Ole Miss pro day?

[Steve Levy]

No, how was it?

[Todd McShay]

Offensive weapon. I knew.

[Steve Levy]

I know he did all the drills. I saw that. I didn't know they announced him like that. I love it. I love it. I just think he's sneaky. He's just sneaky. Underrated, man. I think him and Ivy that, that both of those guys are guys that I think gonna end up being in my top hundred. I just think they're that good.

[Todd McShay]

I'm gonna give you my sleeper and I've mentioned him before.

[Steve Levy]

I want to talk about him. Go. Yeah, go, go, go.

[Todd McShay]

No, no, go About Tyrion Ingram.

[Steve Levy]

Dawkins. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

No. Oh, you're Doc. You want. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

I want to talk about him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So former five star recruit, reserve role as a freshman. Right. And kind of understandably so when you're playing behind Jalen Carter. Jordan. Right. Devonte Wyatt. Okay.

[Steve Levy]

Always keep that in mind with Georgia.

[Todd McShay]

Guys broke into the rotation in 2022 still playing behind Jalen Carter and also Nazir Stackhouse, who continue to be there. Poised to elevate in 2023. Preseason injury though sets him back.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Then in 2024, he finally comes. He comes. And it's not the breakout year with the consistency and there's a lot to develop here. But you got to dig in on this guy because he's. He's.

[Steve Levy]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Stupid talented. I'm telling you. Yes. I watched all these other guys, 11 guys before I got to actually like 14 guys before I got to him. I moved them up because all those guys I had ranked ahead of them. I watched them and then I got to him. I'm like, he's different than a lot of these guys. Okay. So now I go back and I. And I. And I read Kirby Smart I haven't talked to anyone there about him because we're talking about players. Probably fourth round. I want to read. And I was like, oh, this was actually an enlightening quote. You don't often get this, but someone asked about Ingram Dawkins coming into last year. Why hasn't it worked out? But health and beside, this is a quote. Health and besides health, his work ethic. And I was like, oh God, here we go. He's always been a pretty good football player. He's a great kid. He's been in the dumps because of his foot and so you'd see him every day and had more of a smile on his face. He's got a beautiful, great mom and she's been great in communicating with us. He's considered the port, he considered the portal at one time and he talked about his frustrations with us, but it was really more about the injury than it was anything else. So that's coming into the year and he plays better this year. I want you to understand. He's 6 foot 4 and 3 quarters, 276, 33 and a half inch arms, runs a 4, 8, 6, okay, 4, 6, 8. Which was tied for second best of the interior defensive line. 1, 6, 9, 10 yard split. Tied for best. Best in the. Both the vertical jump at 36 inch vertical, which is outrageous. And, and 10, 4 broad jump. Best in the both the. And best in both the short shuttle. 4, 3, 4 and 3 code. So now watch the tape. His initial power and snap and his ability to toss human beings is not normal at all. He sometimes, like, it's obvious, he doesn't know. Have a clue what to do next when he like, he's. There's so much. But if I'm a Joe Cullen, oh my God. If I'm a D line coach in the league and I'm like, why aren't we taking him? We're around pick hundred. Why aren't we taking him? I don't know. I. You don't hear a lot of talk about him and he had that combine work and it's still been quiet, but I, I would draft this guy late third, early fourth and would be thrilled to get to work.

[Steve Levy]

I watched his pass rush versus his, his run defense. I watched his password first and then I watched all the run defense snaps. And I'm watching, I'm like, oh, he's kind of seeing some glimpses here, some interesting things. And then I threw on the run defense and I was like, holy God. I, if I, as a former offensive Lineman. I was like, I would want no part of this kid.

[Todd McShay]

No part, zero, zero part.

[Steve Levy]

And I don't care where he lines up, by the way.

[Todd McShay]

And he's lining up a one technique, three, five technique. He's standing up as an edge.

[Steve Levy]

He's just, he's just, you know, he's just handling offensive tackles. He's splitting double teams. He's overpowering.

[Todd McShay]

Why is nobody talking?

[Steve Levy]

I'm watching. If so, here's the thing that was really interesting though. Like the aggressiveness he has as a run defender.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Levy]

Versus the aggressiveness that he has as a pass rusher. And it's not an effort thing. It's just, it's, it's kind of. It feels like what you're saying, I think he's lost confidence thing. It feels like I'm not as comfortable doing this yet. If you unlock him as a pass rusher and you get that run defender, I, Man, I think, I don't think third round is too early for him. I, I was, I thought he was one of the more fascinating players I've watched because he has the crazy good talent and the run defense is, I already think is outstanding. I gave him a one for run defense. I already think he's a one run defense defender. And then you're looking at that pass rush and it's probably a three, maybe a four at this point, but you're looking at what is he going to be in a year or two or three years. Like this guy's. This guy has all the tools. If you can unlock him. Watch out.

[Todd McShay]

I could just see Howie Roseman doing it again.

[Steve Levy]

Yep. Here we go again. Right? Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Just like he did Milton Williams.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

But also the Georgia connection.

[Steve Levy]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Get this. First round talent, like raw, raw piece of clay. But first round traits, Right. Not first round player. First round traits in round three or early round four. I could just see him swinging at that one. That's it. So much for under two hours. I'm fired up. Here we are, right? We got some quarterback stuff. We got all the whole defensive line Thursday top 150. I'm releasing it, turned it in, but I'm gonna make some changes. Of course. Just a needle. Dan and Connor. No, we're pretty close. And Thursday we're gonna cover the top 150. We're gonna get some of the linebackers. Only a handful of guys we got to get to there on Thursday. And then I just, I can't wait for. I can't wait to get to LA. I've got a meeting with Connor that we're already 40 minutes late for, and he's probably gonna yell at me, but that's fine, too. But we appreciate you watching, listening, being a part of this. Stick with us. It's only going to get better down the stretch. And men, talk to you Thursday, brother.

[Steve Levy]

Yeah, man.

[Todd McShay]

See you must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit RG D help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hope NY in New York.