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Coaching Carousel Buzz with Pete Thamel, and Ohio State Prospect Tiers | The McShay Show
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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is presented by FanDuel. College Football Saturdays are packed with action and FanDuel is where you can score every game day. Let's face it, November is everything in college football. The playoff picture is starting to become more clear. This is the first year with the 12 team playoff and we have some critical matchups throughout this month. Why we Love fanduel There's so many markets like spreads over unders, national championship futures going to get a part of that and so much more. This app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rgh-help.com this episode.
- [01:02]
Steve Palazzolo
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Todd McShay
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Steve Palazzolo
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Todd McShay
Limit one per transaction.
- [01:34]
Steve Palazzolo
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- [01:42]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is back. We've got a lot to cover today, so let's not mess around here at the top, we are pumped to have ESPN College Football Insider and good buddy Pete Tham will stop by the show today, especially on this huge day. No, I'm not talking about the election. I'm not talking about NFL trade deadline. But yes, the first college football rankings reveal day. How lucky are we? Mensch. Right? Then we have a lot to unpack. Mensch. We did a lot of tape study the last 48 hours. Oregon, Ohio State. Where are they personnel wise? Who are the NFL prospects? Listen, it's week 11 in college football. It's week 10 in the NFL and just 172 days remaining until the NFL draft meant you good?
- [02:25]
Steve Palazzolo
I'm good, man.
- [02:26]
Pete Thamel
All right.
- [02:27]
Todd McShay
Give me some of those horns right now. There he is. Pete, what's going on, man?
- [02:48]
Pete Thamel
Todd Good to see you, man. Thanks for having me, bud. Always. Always. Good talk. A little draft, a little ball match.
- [02:55]
Todd McShay
I'm not gonna bore everyone with the background. But I'll never Forget, right, like 15 or so years ago and Pete wasn't, wasn't at ESPN yet and I, I was, I had the, the year where Urban Meyer was off. Right? Yeah, right.
- [03:09]
Pete Thamel
Right.
- [03:10]
Todd McShay
Well, but I'm, but I'm flying down on like on Tuesdays every week and we're taping a segment every week for game day. And, and, and he was so, you know how, you know, Urban when he gets on something, like, you just can't get him off the set. And he, like, for three straight weeks he was telling me, he's like, Pete Thamble. He's like, oh, I just love this Pete Thammel guy, you know, and he's like, you know, I was like, well, I, I haven't met him, coach. I haven't met him. But, you know, I read his stuff. He does a really good job, you know, one of the real insiders in college football. He stopped me. If you, if you know where we stopped you go, no, no, no. Pete's the only guy. He's the only guy. I'm going to get him in touch with you, but I can go on and on like the connections and the NFL drafts we spent together at ESPN and appreciate this guy as a human being as much as I do for his college football insider take. But no one wants to hear a long rant from me on this. Pete. Let. Today's a big day.
- [04:03]
Pete Thamel
I certainly don't, I can tell you that.
- [04:05]
Todd McShay
I'm well aware. Big day. It's, you know, election day, NFL trade deadline day, but it's also the rankings reveal day and I wanted to touch on that, you know, early on. And anyone, anyone who knows college football, you know, you can get them espn.com you can see him every Saturday. College game day. His college, his college game day podcast with, with Reese Davis and the fellas. You can get them just about anywhere. And everyone knows where to find him on, on X as well where he's breaking news all the time, including this morning. But let's start with the rankings. Rankings reveal going into tonight. It's exciting, right? Like the first time at the, with the 12, 12 team playoff. It's, it just feels new and exciting and it's so much more important now in terms of like when we get down to 9, 10, 11, 12. What's kind of. There are one or two things for you. What are you most intrigued to see like the first time that we're getting inside kind of the mindset of this rankings committee.
- [05:01]
Pete Thamel
So it's, it's a really interesting moment in time right now, Todd. Like this is, you know, I don't be over dramatic, but this is like the first chapter of this history here and how this is all going to, all going to work. And it comes at with a really fascinating overlay because this playoff as it's existed before this year had really been the composite of the power elites. Now there were five, then there were four, but really now there's only two. Right. And Greg Sankey has really set an interesting tone for this. He's been like very blunt about how important this committee's role is in determining really the future of college football. Right. You know, in those meetings in Nashville, he really went out of his way to say, you know, just like what these rankings mean because what the ultimate tension is going to come down to, it's going to be a metaphorical 3 loss SEC team versus a 12 loss Big 12 ACC team. And how that's going to work. And sort of the lines that we're hearing from the power leagues is that the strength of schedule should matter and really record has mattered more if we really look back at the last iteration of the, of the playoff. And so I just think it's going to be really interesting for the first, for the first like drafts of history on this, like where does Boise State go? Do they have a chance to actually jump? Maybe an ACC champ or a Big 12 champ if, if especially the Big 12, if there's, you know, multiple losses. Obviously Boise only has one loss and they arguably played Oregon better than anybody has. He played them tough. But man, I mean, Boise was in control of that game. And I think it took Oregon two special team scores in order to, you know, in order to win. So I just think we're in this era where there's like more defined class designation and there used to be a gap between the power leagues and the other leagues. Now there's a chasm between the power leagues and the other leagues and a gap between the power two and the next two. So how that notion, how those perceptions manifest themselves, I think is really going to be the key to kind of how what these rankings are and how they mean. And I think it's so crucial for what the committee does this year because we don't know what the College Football Playoff for certain is going to look like after two years. We're in the 10th year of a 12 year deal. And year 11 and 12 are all of a sudden 12 teams. But that next iteration, we think we know what it looks like. It's supposed to be a 14 team, but we're not certain yet. And the ground rules for setting that aren't really defined. What we do know is the SEC and the Big Ten basically have unilateral control over what's going to happen or at least the. The right to push things away. The. The. The rogue pack. Two teams aren't gonna be able to push them around for things anymore. The voting structure's changed and the world has changed. And I can't stress enough. This is year 21 for me, covering national colleges. Todd, like the last three years changed more than the previous 18, right. And what this playoff looks like and how it works, you can't overstate how crucial that is to just the future of college sports. So again, I don't want to be over dramatic, but it's just going to be an interesting test because people overreact to these rankings now. Two weeks from now, you and I could talk and we won't even remember who was ranked where in the first one. Right. Because there'll be, you know, 100 more games played and new sets of rankings and somebody's going to win, somebody's gonna lose. Georgia's gonna play Tennessee. It's all going to get, you know, shaken up. George's gonna play Ole Miss. Like, there's, you know, plenty of data variables left. So I think this is more going to be a reputational litmus test than an actual in. In really like a snapshot of the mindset of some of the. Some of the tendencies. We may.
- [08:41]
Todd McShay
We may see the expectation. One team from the ACC, one team from the Big 12, one non Power 4 team, like a Boise State, it looks like right now. And then everything else is going to be Big Ten and sec.
- [08:56]
Pete Thamel
You know, I actually haven't sat down and like in and graphed it out yet. And some of that is I'm not going to cover this like live. So I haven't like dug in, but I will actually just scratch this out now. Why don't we do like a fun.
- [09:08]
Todd McShay
Let's do it. I love it.
- [09:09]
Pete Thamel
Let's say let's give Oregon the big. Let's give Oregon the Big Ten championship. They've earned that right. Let's give Georgia.
- [09:18]
Todd McShay
Okay, yeah, I've got them at three right now.
- [09:21]
Pete Thamel
They went one, but they want one at Texas, the Big 12. Boy, we could do a whole podcast on that. Let's do we give it to, let's.
- [09:31]
Todd McShay
Say BYU right now?
- [09:32]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, byu, absolutely. They, absolutely. That's, that's actually a no brainer.
- [09:35]
Todd McShay
And then Miami and the acc, Miami and the ac. So those would be. And I think it's important for people to realize that like the, the rankings that come out tonight, it may be Oregon 1, Ohio State 2, Georgia 3. But when we talk about the seeding, those top four seeds are going to be the conference winners from the top four conferences. Right?
- [09:53]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. And there won't be much controversy about the top four. Right. Unless, unless there's a fly in the ointment with that. So let's just do that and we'll put Boise at 12. They, they seem to be the one that goes there. So then we have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. Put Boise up. We'll put Boise at 12 here.
- [10:15]
Todd McShay
So I'll throw in, I'll throw some names up. So Ohio State will be at large, obviously.
- [10:20]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. So if, if they, I think the battle for five in again, a lot of your listeners, Tom, might be draft people, NFL being hardcore college people. I think this is a really important point about this playoff. The fifth spot is the best spot you can have, you know, not just because it's the highest, because you get the group of five team and you get a home playoff game.
- [10:42]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [10:42]
Pete Thamel
Some people may say that it's like better than it and you play the four right as this thing goes out.
- [10:50]
Todd McShay
Yes, I believe that's the case.
- [10:52]
Pete Thamel
Yes. So you kind of, you are lined up maybe like with a pinch easier path. You got a home game. Now these home games, I think it can't be overstated how awesome they're going to be. A Penn State home game against Boise, awesome. Once in a lifetime memory making diff. Just like different. Have you ever been to a night game at Happy Valley, Tom?
- [11:13]
Todd McShay
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [11:14]
Pete Thamel
I mean it's, yeah. It's just like so that with playoff atmosphere it's new. So I really think like the, you know, if you miss your conference title game and end up five, like that's where this is going to be interesting. Like that say Ohio State loses to Indiana and then ends up. And then Indiana gets trucked in the title game and I don't know, like, yeah, Whoever ends up 5 is really like sitting in the catbird seat.
- [11:41]
Todd McShay
And as it stands right now, it would like it would be Ohio State.
- [11:44]
Pete Thamel
Ohio State. Yeah. Yeah. So imagine home playoff game in the shoe at night, like raucous and voice is really good. They pressed Oregon, you know we're not giving them anything. But you'd think, you'd think you can win. And then from there you play BYU or Miami. Right. As. As this, as this goes, which is not playing Georgia. If you. So I really think that 5 spot needs to like, just like you almost have to like highlight asterisk. Hey, you can make a run here. Now, the other team you're going to play is rested, but you come off a home playoff game and you're rolling like.
- [12:18]
Todd McShay
Yeah, momentum. Yeah, there's something to that, man.
- [12:21]
Pete Thamel
Yes, absolutely.
- [12:23]
Todd McShay
That in the NFL playoffs a lot too.
- [12:25]
Pete Thamel
Absolutely. The other team hasn't played for three, four weeks now. You know, they can get stagnant. You got holidays, all that stuff. You can kind of lose, lose rhythm. Also you got dudes going in the portal. Like your backup linebackers are going to be gone. Like, that whole dynamic is going to be fast. Remember.
- [12:41]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [12:41]
Pete Thamel
Remember Murphy last year, who's the starting quarterback at Duke? He's a, you know, really highly regarded California kid who played for Sark at Texas. He didn't go play with Texas in that game because he wanted, he wanted to go in the portal, commit to Duke and go start there. And I think another thing that some non hardcore college people don't know is that the title games on January 20th, like, that's a little bit mind bending because remember, you think like New Year's and then it kind of like creeped out to the 9th or the 10th.
- [13:09]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [13:10]
Pete Thamel
Right now it's like the 20th. That's, it's almost like another, another month. Like, that's a completely different mindset for freshness, injuries, depth, all that stuff. It's. And for the Portal, like, you gotta be in class some of these places, like, there's gonna be tons of kids making really hard decisions. So Malik decided to go in the portal and go to Duke and get started. He didn't, you know, he had a, a big offer and a starting spot available and he didn't want to lose it. And I don't. Yeah. You know, like to, to go ride and be the backup. So there's just. And again, that's not going to be Ryan Williams making that decision, but it's going to be the, you know, the kid with 12 number three receivers who says, you know what? I'm going to go to Memphis next year and catch 60 balls. Like, do I stick around and do this or do I not? And those are all metaphorical examples. But like, that's, that's going to be real life. And if you're going on a month long playoff. Like you've seen it all. How many like random heroes show up in the NFL playoff and make a special team play or the tight end gets hurt and it's some dude you never heard of who becomes here? Like that's going to happen. I mean, look like right now like Texas A and M is down. They're moving a defensive back to running back. Like right as as much as we've loved this era of all this big school collision, there's collateral damage to it, man. Like these, you know, these rosters are, you know, I mean I joke on Sundays that I'm the vampire because I'm either calling coaches about injured players or ads about coaches who are going to get fired, you know, but like, you know, like yesterday I literally spent the whole day on the phone on injuries. It's just like there's just a lot of them because there are less flotsam and jetsam on your schedule and you know, more big games, which means more big collisions. And as you extend the season by multiple games, you're just gonna, you're just gonna be dealing with that, with that type of stuff just to wrap it.
- [15:02]
Todd McShay
Up and just my projection, we'll see what happens tonight. But my projection, we talked about the four conference winners, we talked about Boise State, what was your state. And then you'd have Ohio State, Texas, Penn State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Indiana, Alabama. So like it could be where it's, it's loaded and as expected and as it should be with big 10 sec. So that's SMU.
- [15:29]
Pete Thamel
No pony love. Like that's where I'm interested. Where's Boise? Where's smu? That those are like the strength of schedule litmuses a little bit because SMU may not lose, you know, they're, you know, and may go play Miami does. If SMU beats Miami, does Miami still get in?
- [15:45]
Steve Palazzolo
Right?
- [15:46]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, probably.
- [15:47]
Steve Palazzolo
And SMU just handled pit. I mean they're coming off the biggest.
- [15:50]
Pete Thamel
One of the year minus their two best pass catchers. Like there's, you know, there's a great, there's a great scheme there. Nick Saban said it on game day. Kevin Jennings, the most underrated quarterback in the country, really dynamic guy. They did a great job keeping two top quarterbacks. Like that's really hard to do. They had Preston Stone who was kind of like the local four star big recruit for them. And I remember they brought Kevin Jennings to media day, which was interesting. They brought both, they brought both quarterbacks. I remember I've been to a Lot of media days, more than I ever really care to admit.
- [16:19]
Todd McShay
Gotta keep our guy.
- [16:20]
Pete Thamel
And. And they. They said, hey, we're bringing both quarterbacks. So, like, right away you're like, okay, like, they want to keep him, but there's a good chance this dude's gonna play a series or two and then they struggle.
- [16:29]
Steve Palazzolo
Right.
- [16:29]
Pete Thamel
Who would have thought we'd be talking about the BYU SMU game with, like, huge playoff implications? But that Rock fight that BYU won and give them a ton of credit. J. Hills, like, offered one of the best defenses in the country this year. Now, like, you're talking about SMU and like, well, that's a really good loss, right? Yeah, that's a top 10 loss. Where points.
- [16:48]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:49]
Pete Thamel
BYU was. Was terrible last year and they transitioned the Big 12. So, like, that's. I still think that's one of the beauties, Todd, of college football is. You have Indiana from straight out of nowhere. Right, right. Like, we were at JMU last year with. With Signetti, and they had an unbelievable run there and they took 13 guys. But who could have ever imagined, like, who could have ever in their wildest dreams thought they'd be like, you know what? This isn't Fluky. The level of competition hasn't been great, but they're really good. They are execution monsters. Like, you'll appreciate this and the draft audience will. So we went there for the Washington game for game day. So I called around and was like, hey, to some scouts who. Area scouts have gone through there. I was like, so, you know, what's the deal with these guys? One guy's like, dude, I had to go in there and write up 22 or 23 guys, which, you know, is like a huge number, like a veteran players. Huge numbers. You know, how many probably gonna get invited to the combine?
- [17:42]
Todd McShay
Really?
- [17:43]
Steve Palazzolo
The edge Camaro, Curtis Rourke.
- [17:44]
Pete Thamel
No Curtis Rourke.
- [17:46]
Steve Palazzolo
Okay.
- [17:46]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [17:47]
Pete Thamel
And then now. Now there's like a. A plugger nose tackle from Kent who, you know, like, get. You can, you know, you could kind of go. Now they have a couple younger guys, you know, who may end up, like, eventually emerging. There's a receiver surround who's really good. They've got like a great middle linebacker, Fisher. I think those guys are. We're probably going to come back. You know, they're not like super traitsy guys are going to rise up boards and look, they could get another player too drafted late in the round. So I don't want to, like, I don't want to sit there. You're going to get noticed. But this Is not like some super team, you know, like they have one sure combine invite, maybe we'll give them three just to be generous. Like Ohio State's probably got like 18, right? Yeah.
- [18:28]
Todd McShay
We just went through their defense. Could have nine guys drafted. So.
- [18:31]
Pete Thamel
Yes. Yeah, no, this is a, it's a supremely talented Ohio State team. So anyway, like that's still like. And again, I'm not like some romantic. I cover a billion dollar pro sport. I, I've done it for a long time. But like the, the joy of college football is like wake up and you know, 5am in the lobby being Stanford Seaver. Like we're in Bloomington. Here we are.
- [18:50]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [18:50]
Todd McShay
Just like we expected all along.
- [18:53]
Pete Thamel
So give, give Signetti credit, man. What he's done there is one of the great coaching jobs that I've seen in my long time doing this.
- [19:00]
Todd McShay
Well, one of my joys working at ESPN mentioned like there's something about the urgency of just like hanging out. You're in a green room or you're going to a set or whether it's with, with Thammel or, or you know, any of the information guys. Schefter, obviously it's the same like you're always kind of. All right, what's going, is he on his phone? What's going on? You know, like. So this morning we had to push back talking to Pete because, because there's breaking news. So bring us, bring us up to speed. What's going on? A couple stories that you broke already today.
- [19:32]
Pete Thamel
A couple stories where I was worried I would have set the time for this earlier a little bit, but I didn't, I didn't know what the voting line was going to look like like in South Boston. But it was, it was very, very efficient. So I was appreciative of that.
- [19:44]
Todd McShay
Cathedral church.
- [19:46]
Pete Thamel
No, you know, it used to be the middle school on D, but we, we just moved and it was on.
- [19:51]
Todd McShay
On the south end. That's where I used to.
- [19:53]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, you're South End. Yeah. No, I'm southeast. Sorry. Yeah, but very, very smooth. All local, all local constituents. And I'm not very political, but I think you guys can agree with this very non political statement. I'm really glad the political ads will be leaving. You know, those of us who watch football for like, you know, 30 hours a weekend. Like.
- [20:12]
Todd McShay
Enough. Enough.
- [20:13]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, that's all. No, no, red.
- [20:15]
Todd McShay
Bring me back like the Burger King.
- [20:17]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [20:17]
Pete Thamel
I can't wait to see doing, doing AFFLAC commercials again. Give me the duck. The duck is not political.
- [20:26]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [20:29]
Pete Thamel
I lost my Train of thought there.
- [20:30]
Todd McShay
So the two, the two stories that you broke this morning.
- [20:33]
Pete Thamel
Oh, yeah, sorry. So it was. And, and I'll give credit. USC football.com While I was sleeping last night broke that Miller Moss is getting benched and Jaden Maeva, who had a really nice true freshman year at unlv, is going to get the start against Nebraska. Now they play in two weeks and there'll be maybe a little new flair to Nebraska offense because they've just hired Dana Holgerson as a consultant. We all know Dana Holgerson from his very good quarterback work at Texas Tech, Houston, West Virginia. Houston again, you know, really one of the highly regarded guys and look like they, you know, Nebraska's on a three game losing streak. Their offense is in a slump. You know, coaches I talked to said they kind of saw Dylan Rayola plateau and maybe regress a little bit after that really strong start he had.
- [21:15]
Steve Palazzolo
I agree.
- [21:16]
Pete Thamel
There's a, there's a strong belief in his talent, Todd, and you would, you would have a better gauge of arm talent and such. But the, the thought is they need to right that ship. And look, Nebraska, this is a mind bending stat, hasn't been to a bull since 2016, which is the longest drought of any power conference team in college football. And I think generally only UMass and Monroe haven't been longer. So imagine if in 1995 I popped you on the shoulder and said, hey, Nebraska will have the longest bull drought. Like you would. Yeah, yeah, you could, you can't even like, no way. Put your mind around. I mean, they fired Bo Pelini for winning nine games.
- [21:51]
Todd McShay
Yes, yes.
- [21:52]
Pete Thamel
And like so, like so I think there's some urgency in that program. Right now they're at 5 and 4 to get, to get to 6.
- [22:00]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [22:01]
Pete Thamel
They have USC. I know they go to Iowa at the end of the year and I think they host Wisconsin in between. So. No, look, you're in those power leagues. There's no layups, man. There's no gimmicks. Yeah, yeah. And I, my, my joke this year somebody's, somebody's finishing 18th in the big Ten, whether you like it or not. Like people lose half the game still, like, even though you get more TV money. So, and that's, that's tough. Like USC is 15th in the Big Ten right now. Like that's, you know, it's crazy. It's, it's a wild statement. Again, most of those have been one score games. So Miller Moss, I think is second in the, in the Big Ten in interceptions by Aiden Childs the. The young quarterback at Michigan State Rail is third. He's got. He's got eight picks, so it's a. It's a very neat confluence here. We'll see Jade Maevis. First start with Dana Holgerson. I, you know, he's a consultant, so I don't think he's going to be, like, calling plays or anything, but they're bringing him in to juice up the offense, to do what Dana Holgerson has done to bringing a fresh set of eyes to try to, you know, to try to unlock a little bit more of. Of Raola's potential.
- [23:03]
Todd McShay
Sometimes as a quarterback, changing the. Not, not changing the picture, but kind of readjusting your focus and having someone come in, like, it can be simple stuff like, hey, where are you looking on this? All right, what. Maybe let's. Let's check the corner back on this first precept. You know, like, little things can. All of a sudden it just. It ticks and you see it, like, with a really good. Coaches who have experience and know what they're doing can come in and say, we're doing a lot of great things here. But. But let's do this. These four or five things a little bit differently. And all of a sudden then you see the confidence build. So, I mean, we're all hopeful for Raiola because he is a special talent.
- [23:41]
Pete Thamel
I agree.
- [23:42]
Todd McShay
Yeah. I mean, he's a special talent. Another. You know, I'll transition with this because. Because there's a guy in college coaching right now that I don't know is getting enough credit, and soon he Will. Will Stein. You talk about changing the picture for guys like I. What Will Stein was able to do with Bo Nicks and. And to bring out the best in him, what he's been able to do with. With Dylan Gabriel and bring out the best in him. Like the tape I'm watching, man, like, it is. It's so fun to watch. Like, Dylan's always been able to win big games. He's always had this, like, aggressive approach, but he always had the one or two games a year where it just like he. His. He couldn't get out of his own way. And now I just see the most comfortable, relaxed, confident version of Gabriel. I'm curious.
- [24:27]
Pete Thamel
Drafted, Todd.
- [24:29]
Todd McShay
We're going to get into that a little bit later.
- [24:31]
Pete Thamel
No, no. I've asked a bunch of scouts. I think it's a fascinating question because a month ago, before that Iowa State game, I don't. I think the answer amongst scouts who've seen him was probably not.
- [24:41]
Todd McShay
Let me preview the conversation we're gonna have later because I just got done.
- [24:45]
Steve Palazzolo
With a bunch of tape.
- [24:46]
Todd McShay
This is literally the first day of the entire Dylan Gabriel experience, where I am. I'm saying, yeah, I do think you should get drafted.
- [24:55]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [24:55]
Todd McShay
5, 11. I understand. But the way he's playing, the confidence that he's shown, the way he's distributing the ball, it is on the deep balls. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes. So anyway, back to Will Stein.
- [25:08]
Pete Thamel
Yes.
- [25:08]
Todd McShay
Because I kind of did a little deep dive on Will Stein and try to feel like, where's this guy from? And Dan. You got to remember Dan Lanning takes over this job. He's got to have an OC he trusts as a defensive guy. He's. And you got Phil Knight and all the money and the uniforms and the expectations. Right. And to go hire Will Stein, with his very, like, minuscule background. Was talking about onions. Kuyan. Yeah. What. What do you. What can you tell us about that hire and what you know about Will Stein, his background?
- [25:40]
Pete Thamel
So I've known Will for a while, and he's a really impressive young coach. I believe he was a walk on at Louisville, and I believe he's from Louisville and learned from Bobby Petrino, which you can learn a lot of what to do. You probably learn a few things not to do.
- [25:59]
Todd McShay
I'm glad you said it.
- [26:00]
Steve Palazzolo
That's fair.
- [26:01]
Pete Thamel
I don't think that's like, a glaring presence. Bobby Petrino has an offensive mind.
- [26:08]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [26:09]
Pete Thamel
My 21 years, he's in the top five. You know what I mean?
- [26:12]
Todd McShay
Like, I agree.
- [26:13]
Pete Thamel
That dude knows how to move the ball. He knows offensive football. There is, you know, as a. I. I'm sure it wasn't, you know, you know, a Ms. Rachel episode every day in the quarterback room there, but a lot of football was learned if you. If you focus on the information and not on the delivery. So from there, Will went on. Will went on an interesting journey. He was. He was with Charlie Strong, then as a GA and a QC at Louisville, and then moved with Charlie. And some of this is off memory here as I look at. As I look at this, to Texas and was a QC at Texas. He transitioned from Charlie's era to the Herman era, and then went a really interesting career move. 2018, 2019. He went to Lake Travis High School, where Texas commit and really highly regarded recruitment. Hudson Card was the quarterback. And there's a head coach at Lake Travis named Hank Carter, who's been there forever, who's just one of the best football coaches in the country I've got, that guy's produced a solid, consistent winner for a lot of years. And just because the logo on your chest or the league you coach and whatever, that doesn't mean you're the best coach. This guy's an elite, elite coach.
- [27:22]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [27:22]
Pete Thamel
And I think it was a really smart move for Will who went, who went there, got Texas high school experience, got around great players, coached and tutored Hudson Card. And by the way, I don't think the Texas staff was complaining that the Texas offense was being run by their star recruit in their backyard. Like it was like a little like cheat code so they could kind of get, get Hudson ready to, ready to go there from there. He had worked with Jeff Trailer along the way at Texas. So he went to UTSA as the receivers coach, pass game coordinator, eventually became the COC and quarterback coach at UTSA. Jeff Traylor is very big on promoting from within. So 2022 and you remember they had Frank Harris as their quarterback at UTSA. He was there for approximately 67 years as the starter, if memory, memory serves me right. And was a great, great college player. I think he was there seven years but he was a great, great college player. So Will was able to maximize him. And then really with like three seasons of on field coach experience, he gets hired as Oregon's coach. Really does an unbelievable job with, with Bo Nicks. Right. Like I mean his, his completion percentages and you know, were mind boggling last year. And then he gets Dylan Gabriel. So good on Will Stein. Like is a coach. I always tell coaches this when they talk about should I go this job you got to put yourself in position to win. Right?
- [28:48]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [28:48]
Pete Thamel
And he has aligned himself with Frank Harris who is a monster winner. Bo Nicks who was in his sixth year of college, what he saw 80 games like preposterous dog. Like you know, and, and then obviously Dylan Gabriel. So yeah, we'll see what happens when he doesn't coach a six year senior. Right. And I'm joking but like good for Will Stein because there's a lot of good players who you don't get the most out of. So he has found great situations and he has worked very hard to do that. He will be very quick to tell you that it is a collaborative effort on that Oregon football staff. They have an excellent veteran receivers coach by the name of Junior Adams who's been around. Junior Adams recruited that whole Washington receiver room that all went in the top 50 last year. So he was at Washington and he brought all those guys and he Brought him Polk from Tech. He recruited a dunes a out of high school. Remind me.
- [29:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Yep.
- [29:51]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. So he, he was the, he was the guy who was responsible. I didn't know he went from Washington to Oregon. He's, he's a really, really sharp coach. He's got a big voice in the, in, in the offense. And then the tight ends coach there is Drew Maringer, who's been an OC at jmu, Rutgers, a few other places. Will, if I'm right, was Drew's gaqc at Texas early on in Herman's time there. So they have a great relationship. They think about football in a lot of the same ways because they merge together. So look, Will Stein's calling it. He's doing a great job. But you know, from, from what he has told me, you know, there's, there's a collaborative effort there. Rashad Samples is the running back coach. He's in his first year. There's, he's, he's a bright young guy. He spent some time with the Rams and with, with Arizona State. But there is, they are very, they are very quick to say that there's a lot of collaboration. It's not just like Will off, off script and by himself, but it is a, it is a remarkable run for, you know, for a guy who's a.
- [30:51]
Todd McShay
Younger guy to 35 years old last.
- [30:54]
Pete Thamel
Night to have a, to have ascended and performed consistently at that level and.
- [31:01]
Todd McShay
And hats off to Dan Lanning to, to make that, that leap, you know, and I'm sure, I'm sure it was criticized or people had questions like, really, this is, this is your guy with all the resources we have and to see, to see that turn, turn out the way it has so far meant. You asked me an interesting question the other day. You can, you can ask Pete about like the dynamics and, and the, the Ryan Day, Chip Kelly, like how that all, all went. Go ahead and ask him.
- [31:25]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, I was wondering, I wanted to know how that unfolded. And Todd made the good point that they, you know, they, they're talking all the time. But when push came to shove, who first was the first one to breach the topic of hey man, you know, I'm coaching the quarterbacks because my offense coordinator left at ucla. I'm loving it. It's reminding me of what I really love about the game. I'm thinking about maybe getting out. Is there anything going on in Ohio State? Who's the first one? Do you, do you know who was the first one to bring it up and how that kind of, that Conversation unfolded. Do you have any kind of background on that?
- [31:56]
Pete Thamel
So I'd say this, Steve, like the. We talked about 1 to 18 in the Big Ten, and this is. This is my vision. Nobody, Nobody said this directly to me. Like, ucla, where they were with nil, where they were with roster, where they. With resources, was trending a lot closer to 18 than 1, right? Yes.
- [32:14]
Steve Palazzolo
Agree. Yeah.
- [32:15]
Pete Thamel
And that's. And that's just not a fun place to live. Right. And so Chip it. All the pressures of being a head coach. And if you know Chip Kelly, like, you know, he likes to coach football, right? Like, that's. That's who he is at his core. I mean, he was the New Hampshire offensive coordinator for like a dozen years.
- [32:32]
Todd McShay
We were at Richmond and played against him.
- [32:34]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Pete Thamel
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So, like, there's no. Like that. There's not a lot of. What's the word I'm looking for here with Chip here? Like, like the ball is the thing he likes. You know what I mean? Like, I. Yeah. And he doesn't like to self promote. He doesn't like to talk about himself. Hardly. Hardly ever. I remember going to his office when they were hot at Oregon in his second year of the year. They made the. They made the title game. And look, I live in Boston. We know a lot of people comment. I remember I sat there, we'd like, chatted it up for like half an hour, and I turned the recorder on. I was like, dude, you got to say something. Like, I came 3,000 miles. And he was just like, you know, I was like, asking him, like, you know, like, when you can start the interview and ask reporter questions. And I think like, the, you know, the dynamic between Chip Kelly and Ryan Day can't be. Can't be overstated, right?
- [33:24]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [33:25]
Pete Thamel
Right.
- [33:25]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [33:26]
Pete Thamel
Ryan grew up in New Hampshire. They went to like, what I've heard and read the same elementary school, the same junior high, the same high school. They knew all the. They knew all the same people. Just in. Is it Manchester? Yeah.
- [33:39]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [33:39]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. Manchester, New Hampshire. In that, you know, in that small town in that area. You know, Ryan's been very open in a powerful way about his. Talking about his dad dying of suicide when he was nine years old. And he has a lot of uncles and other folks who, you know, were role models in his life, but it's undeniable that, you know, once he hit high school and started getting recruited by Chip, there was just like a strong bond there. And so, you know, he plays for him. They grew up together. I mean, I Remember when Chip got promoted, he offered the job at Oregon to Ryan that Mark Helffrich ended up getting, and Ryan didn't want to leave the Northeast and didn't take it. At the time, I think he was at bc and I think he had a young family. So, like, there's always been, like, a really, really strong tie between those guys. Sean McDonnell, who was the head coach at New Hampshire for a very long time. Chip worked for him. You guys obviously played against Sean when you were. When you were at Richmond and, you know, like, that. That tree of guy. I mean, there's tr. Like, Kevin Decker is the OC at Old Dominion now. Like. Like, that tree of guys. Alex Grinch is in that tree. Like, there's, like. There's, like, branches of Holy cross came from that group. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. The. Yeah, there's just got, like, you go out. You go out in New England and you meet, like, a random Villanova coach. It's like a 50, 50 chance at, like, a satellite camp that he, like, played for Sean McDonald or coach for Sean McDonald or, like, GA'd for him at some point. At some point along there. So I thought that moment was pretty neat between Chip and Ryan after the Penn State game. Like, that's genuine. Genuine emotion.
- [35:19]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Knowing those guys that well and being able to, like, sitting on my couch just watching it, I was like that, honestly. Like, I. I know Chip as well as probably any coach out there because of all the ties here as well, knowing Chip the way I know Chip and how excited he was to get back to coaching ball and. And. And to do it with his guy.
- [35:40]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [35:41]
Todd McShay
Like, how. How. And. And to put. That was brilliant, what he did on. On Saturday. I'm just gonna be out. Like, that was his master class.
- [35:48]
Pete Thamel
He was a great game plan.
- [35:50]
Todd McShay
Oh, and to be able to do that on the biggest stage in that moment for. For your gu.
- [35:56]
Pete Thamel
Think about.
- [35:56]
Todd McShay
He's like a son to him, right?
- [35:58]
Pete Thamel
Yes.
- [35:58]
Todd McShay
And to be able to go pull off that performance and in a win that they desperately needed because we all know the pressures of being the head coach at Ohio State and the records versus top five teams, like that was as genuine as you will get from two dudes that just truly love one another. It was cool.
- [36:17]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. Ryan Day in the post game with Jenny Taft looked like he won Powerball, you know, like. Like, it was like a halogen lamp of a smile. Uh, you know, he just looked. It looked like a catharsis, you know, like, he. You can see him wearing the stress. Right. Like, you know, now it's.
- [36:34]
Todd McShay
And I feel like now it's like, okay, now we can go coach. Now we can go do what we love to do. We had to get that one, you know.
- [36:40]
Pete Thamel
Yes. No, there was, you know, that it was a really interesting, you know, couple days build up and game day there and everything because it was just sort of like a really interesting moment in time. Right? Two super successful people who are in the top 1% of their profession in success, right. In Ryan Day is the highest winning percentage of any active coach in college football if you go over like five years. So Chris, you know, like, hyper successful, right? James Franklin, hyper successful by any metric, pulled that place out of the ditch and out of like, you know, like, people forget that, man. Bill Obama's there two years, did a great job just sort of like kind of tripping the dam and saving it. And James pulled it on and has brought it a long way. But like, people get spoiled and everybody wants the biggest prize. And so like they, they basically generated new pressures on them, you know, on, on themselves. So I, I think Penn State will finish the deal here and, and win out and end up in the playoff and, and look, they could, they could end up in that, in that five spot maybe too, right. Like, you know, like. Right, so. Or there's a really good chance to end up with a home playoff game if your only loss is to number. Fill in the blank. Ohio State. Right on. You know, a game that came down to 2 yards, basically. You know, there's, it is, you know, they do have to finish and you know, they're, they're not, they are a flawed team. They don't have great outside skill and so that, you know, and they have very good backs. They have good quarterback. I think Andy Kotel neck, he's done a really nice job opening things up and giving that offense a little bit of life. Right. But there is, you know, there are, you know, there's. They are still a little bit flawed like, you know, most modern college football teams as they go, but it was just a really interesting intersection of those, of those storylines and just a case study in handling big game pressure.
- [38:29]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [38:30]
Pete Thamel
Big in big game stress. And you wonder if Ohio State now feels like they've like they're past it and then they can just play unencumbered now. You know, that's what I feel, kind of feel like.
- [38:39]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's interesting.
- [38:40]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [38:41]
Pete Thamel
I want to say I, I was watching on. On TV the, the last play they had like two backup tight ends in, you know, because Kashmarik who's their blocking tight end, missed the game. They've got the, the guard, Jackson playing tackle. They got him playing guard. Like, to me it was a little bit of like. And then you have Quinton Junkins run around the edge on the, on the slide play and deliver a hammer block to seal that.
- [39:04]
Todd McShay
Yes, yes.
- [39:05]
Pete Thamel
Right. And Reese Davis mentioned this on our pod. On the play, Clay Howard got stripped on Trayvon Henderson delivered like a decleet block that had the scouts wooing. So you, you've got a program win. You've got your superstars doing the dirty work. You've got backups playing huge roles. Like Brandon Ennis had a, had a monster game in that game. So to me that's like, that's when the program is humming, when it's not just like, let's wait for Jeremiah Smith to make a play. Let's wait for Mecca Booker to make a play play. You, you really have engaged. They had a Backup defensive tackle, McDonald make one of those big stops in the, in, in the, in the middle there because Ty Williams, I believe, was out. So like, that's all of a sudden when you're saying, okay, like this is not, you know, this isn't just glitzy superstars, but there's some, there's some grit here.
- [39:51]
Todd McShay
All right. From all the feel good stories and we'll get you out of here. Just two last questions for me to, you know, the inevitable part of your job. We're, we're getting closer to Thanksgiving. You know, we already saw a second head coach in the NFL get fired. Talk about the hot seat like this. We're not going to be a hot seat type of show here or obviously more NFL draft and personnel. But we've got you here and I feel like it's important just to ask you the question. Names like Hugh Freeze, Billy Napier, you know, Lincoln Riley, Mike Norvell. What are you hearing? What, what should we know at this point and what's going on in some of those big spots?
- [40:29]
Pete Thamel
So always the hot seat should be guided by contract. Lincoln Riley, to be fired, would be owed $90 million and you would have a bet 90 plus you would have a better sense of his NFL market than I would, Todd. But it's drastically different than it would have been as a head coach two years ago. I mean, I think 12 and 12 in his last 24 games. So that's a tough, that's a tough sell for a guy with no NFL experience to come in. And oh, by the way, he's making 10 million bucks. So.
- [40:56]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [40:57]
Pete Thamel
Like again, could he go do what Clifton call plays? Yes. Would he have to take a 60 pay cut? Probably yes. And that's not easy for anybody to do. I don't want to take a 60 pay cut. I'm sure you guys don't like it so like, you know, just because it's not working and you're unhappy. But it is, it is a, it is a difficult situation there. Now he's in year three. They've regressed clearly. Right. You know, is, is Juju Lewis, the piece at quarterback, the kid they have committed from, from, from Georgia. He's a, he's a special quarterback talent, you know, reclassed. So he'd come in young in, you know. So I think that situation, barring something pretty drastic. Right. Is probably just going to keep playing itself out. Yeah. From there, Freeze. Freeze will get more time. My understanding is he'd be owed 20 plus million. He inherited a roster that was deficient in talent. They're fifth in recruiting right now. So I think there'll be some more staff changes in refinement there. But I don't feel like that's, that's hot. Much like Mike Norvell who billed $65 million like back to back 10 win seasons. He was undefeated in the regular season last year. I can't see, you know, I don't even think those are really conversations. Billy Napier. That's conversation.
- [42:14]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [42:14]
Pete Thamel
I would say that I give Billy Napier a lot of credit because you know, they were DOA coming out of that A M game. They had back to back home blowout losses and it's hard in this era, especially to keep a team together, rallied in, in sync with a lot of noise around them. So I think Billy Naper has done an excellent job coaching this football team. They have a ton of young talent that you're starting to see. And look, they were competitive with Georgia. I mean they were.
- [42:41]
Todd McShay
Fourth quarter lagway went up.
- [42:44]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Pete Thamel
If Lague doesn't get hurt. You never know. And you feel bad there. Excuse me.
- [42:49]
Todd McShay
But their schedule is brutal, man.
- [42:51]
Pete Thamel
Brutal. And they're one of the rare teams that had two good quarterbacks. It's hard to have two good quarterbacks on your roster. And they had two and they're both hurt. And that's just like, that's just.
- [43:01]
Todd McShay
Now we're down to a Yale. A Yale transfer.
- [43:02]
Pete Thamel
Yale transfer. Yeah. And then I think they have Clay Millen on their roster who played at Colorado State and Washington State. I believe he's of the west Coast. Millens but their four string quarterback. So I'm not going to claim I know much more about him than that. So it would be 26 to 27 million dollars to fire Billy Napier. That would be the second biggest buyout in the history of college football. It would. Yes. So Jimbo's the highest and dust mulz on it was in the 20s, mid-20s somewhere.
- [43:33]
Todd McShay
What was Jimbo's again? Remind me.
- [43:34]
Pete Thamel
76. Yeah. Wow, cool. 76.
- [43:37]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's nothing. Oil money. We're good.
- [43:40]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah. What about Gundy at Oklahoma State?
- [43:43]
Pete Thamel
So I mean he's, he sort of earned a bad year I would think because remember they, he got in some trouble, right. Said some, said some, said some things. They kind of re engineered his contract but I believe they've re engineered it back now. So I don't think they're a conversation. But look, he's an excellent football coach. I'm shocked that they're winless in the Big 12, I'm sure.
- [44:05]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, you know, it's just like six in a row.
- [44:08]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, it's just, yeah. It's surprising. They had 19 starters back. That number's always a little bit ambiguous because you know, how do you count a starter? But they had their whole offensive line. They had Ollie Gordon who's best tailback in the country. Like they had Alan Bowman who again isn't going to blow anybody away but was like a functional veteran 24 year.
- [44:24]
Todd McShay
Old quarterback when the Big 12.
- [44:27]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, exactly. The, the perfect quarterback to execute a, you know, don't mess it up offense. Right. Run the ball, make your reads, you know, run through it a little bit. So I don't really know what's gone on there but I do anticipate some changes, just not with, just not with Mike. But it is like shocking. John Wilner, the west coast writer for the Bay Area Newspaper Group had a great tweet. He had the top five preseason Big 12 picks and K State has a winning record. The other four have like bad losing records. They're not like three and four, it's like oh and five one and you know, so it's, it's been, it's. That league has been a lot of fun, I'll tell you that. You know what I mean? Like I don't. We'll see how competitive they are come the playoff and I think it'll be an interesting litmus. But right, right now as the season has gone on like I've had a blast watching those, watching those games, watching Iowa State, Texas Tech this weekend, K State, Houston this weekend, you know, like, the games are close, the league's competitive. You know that the teams play, like, you know, interesting offensive styles. So it's been. It's been a lot of fun, man.
- [45:33]
Todd McShay
I think, and we'll. We'll finish on this. But I think the thing that goes probably most unnoticed about Pete is how dialed he is. Dialed in he is with NFL scouts, like, my favorite. You know, you get Schefter on his phone, and he's got all the, you know, all the guys in the league and him up there, and all the people we've talked to throughout the process, all of our friends in the league. But every year at the draft, the last several years, with Pete kind of hanging around the ABC set and would have so much information. Like, the times I would go into commercial and, like, hunt them down and, like. But he's so humble. They're like. He's like, yo, just take this. Take this little nugget. So, like, I've always appreciated his. His ability to, you know, provide insight, provide information on the NFL draft. And we're not. Listen, we're in the middle of the college football season. We all care about what's going on, you know, on the field right now. But I do want to, before we let you go, kind of reel you in a little bit, Pete, and just get a. One question. We'll stick to the quarterbacks today. Sure. I know I've seen you on game day a couple times kind of polling NFL scouts and. And this year's class is different. Like, it's just. It's. There's a lot of different opinions when I talk to people in the league. It's not like last year's group where you've got, you know, six quarterbacks and four that we know. And so while it's. While it's not to that level a year ago, there still is some talent, and things have changed throughout the year. We've got, you know, Garrett Nussmeyer playing great for most of the year, except that second half he had against A and M. Cam Ward has had a huge rise. Shadour Sanders is playing the best ball of his career. Carson Beck is struggling in Georgia. So with that kind of as the backdrop, what are you hearing when you talk to NFL scouts, just specifically with this year's quarterback class?
- [47:15]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, I think the best way to say it, Todd, is I'm hearing everything right. And it's. It's really interesting. One of the things that I like about talking to scouts is you kind of have conversations in a Silo. You know what I mean? Like, you're never in like a group where there's a bunch of them, like, and there's some group thinking scouting. Don't get me wrong, but like you, I have guys who like, are convicted on Shador and I have guys saying they wouldn't touch. Like, there's just so many different, you know, that I've never had as divisive of a draft class. So I did a. I did a poll the other day. Another. Another political reference, right? And I texted or called 20 Scouts and said, hey, who's your QB one? It was. I looked it up here because I thought you might ask me about. It was October 5th. We did. We did the hit when we were in. We were in Berkeley and it was. It was nine for Shador. And Beck had just had the bad game against Bama. He still had five. Milro had four. And then warden, yours had one. So the fun part about that exercise is like. And you know, scouts, like, they. They take pride in their opinion, right? So, like, it's become. With a bunch of them, like an ongoing conversation because some are like, I like Nussmeyer, but not quite yet. And then somewhere got hot on Nussmeyer and then he obviously had that awful second half at a. M. I think Nussmeyer should come back. This is just an opinion. Nobody's asked me. And be the top guy next year.
- [48:33]
Todd McShay
Totally agree. He might go in the first round this year, but like, yeah, so. So did Anthony Richardson.
- [48:38]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, like, you gotta play, man. Like, I don't know anything about scouting. I can't tell you.
- [48:43]
Todd McShay
Dad with his dad.
- [48:45]
Pete Thamel
Yes. Yeah.
- [48:46]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [48:47]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. They're not gonna go. Take the short money. Like.
- [48:50]
Todd McShay
Correct.
- [48:50]
Pete Thamel
Set yourself up. The. The EWERS Camp used 25 starts as a litmus and I think that's a really good number. And they had good historical data to. To back that up. Like, if you're gonna make it, you have to play a whole bunch of football. Like, that's just like, I'm never going to be able to tell you. Like, his. His hip flex and his knee and it sinked to his. No, I have no idea. But you got to play football to be able to play football.
- [49:13]
Todd McShay
That's just like what I did this year, right?
- [49:16]
Pete Thamel
Yes. Yeah, he played a lot of football. Some of it wasn't great. I'm actually a believer in like, overcoming struggles is like part of like, what you have to do. Like, can you want to see how a guy responds? Like, you. You just don't want this to Be this unimpeded, like joy, you know, joyride. Like Raola's rut this year at Nebraska is eventually going to help him, you know, as a prospect because he's got to figure out how to face adversity, move on, adjust and keep moving and growing because there aren't. There aren't a lot of Tom Brady careers. You know what I mean? Like, just where it's like Tom Brady's.
- [49:50]
Todd McShay
Career was a night, was a nightmare. Yeah. And that. And that's what fueled him, you know.
- [49:55]
Pete Thamel
Correct. Yeah. So I just think it's. I think it's a really, really interesting year. I, I was sort of bullish that five quarterbacks would get taken the first round last year. And I was on an island on that, like at the Cedar bowl for a while and then eventually there were six and it all, it all came. I don't have any conviction right now on how many in the first round because, like, what. I don't, I know just from flipping channels on Sunday, but I don't track the NFL that closely. I just know there's a glaring need. Right. Tim Boyle starting games like there's a need. And this class may not match with that need, but that doesn't mean the need isn't there. Right.
- [50:33]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [50:34]
Pete Thamel
So I'll be curious. I was talking to somebody yesterday and they sort of posited this theory, like, we have not had a middle class Todd of quarterbacks in a while. Right. Like we've had. So where was the. Was it Rattler was the next pick after Knicks at 12?
- [50:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Fourth round. Yeah.
- [50:50]
Pete Thamel
I think he was like 190. Some. Something like that. He might have been fifth, actually, because he, he dropped maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And so is this the year that maybe the middle class comes back for quarterbacks because. Yeah, he was 150. Sorry. And is this year the middle class comes back for quarterbacks in the sense that, like after Shedor, I don't know how many people are going to use like big, big draft capital.
- [51:17]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [51:18]
Pete Thamel
But that said, it's not a great draft. That's the general sense that I've got.
- [51:21]
Todd McShay
Overall, every position. Overall.
- [51:22]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. Just like. It's just not. It's just not. Yeah. Some are, some aren't. This one isn't. So that's going to skew the quarterback value. Right. But I wouldn't be surprised if, like somebody took Quinn Ewers in the second. Like, just as this thing, as this thing goes, yours to me feels like a guy who could go to an NFL team could Hide him for a year or two in the late first, you know. Yeah, I, I'm a believer in his pure arm talent and his tools. And I. The Georgia game, to me, the guy pressured 50 of the time. Like it's, you know, to me, that wasn't. Like Carson Beck has had some moments where you're like, whoa, what's this guy doing to me? Yours just like got. Got run out, you know, got running.
- [52:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah. That was a. You got railroaded that night.
- [52:06]
Pete Thamel
Yes. It's just like. And he has plenty of. Plenty of other tapes. So, you know, where. Where do things settle? I. I feel pretty confident today saying Shador is the first one off the board like that.
- [52:17]
Todd McShay
I would agree with that. I think that it's interesting. I think everyone, everyone who cares about these young men and everyone in the league who wants to see a product that is. Is ready to contribute to an organization tends to agree that, that Nussmeyer, while he could be pro, he. Yeah, I would say this. He will be a first round pick if he comes out this year. But you'd rather him go back to school. Same with Jalen Milro. And then, you know, Carson Beck and yours are kind of. To me, I'd love to draft him in the second round, you know, so I don't have to use that first round pick on him.
- [52:48]
Pete Thamel
But the second, really, Todd in November is a first round pick in that. In every freaking. I don't mean to interrupt you, but like all those guys, like. Yeah, he's gonna be sacred Bo Nicks. Oh, he'll be sacred. Pick J.J. mcCarthy. He'll be a sacral pick. Like the conversation right now.
- [53:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [53:05]
Pete Thamel
And you know, fast forward.
- [53:06]
Todd McShay
We know.
- [53:07]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [53:08]
Todd McShay
But the most intriguing guy to me now, I think the biggest wild card would be Milro, but I think he should go back to school and play more. The most intriguing to me right now is Cam Ward because. Yeah, because the conversation everywhere online, it's Cam Ward. Cam Ward, you know, Cam Warden Shador. Cam Warden Shador. And there's a lot to love, but there's a lot to be scared of on his tape. And, and I. The more people you talk to in the league, there's more second round grades than there are like lock first. So.
- [53:34]
Pete Thamel
Sure. No, and. And look, he's been. First of all, has there been a more fun player to watch in college football this year than Camp Ward? I mean, he's no preposterously fun. And their defense is a sieve, so it just keeps giving them the ball back so he can do it again and again. And he plays just with this, like, nonchalance and this natural movement. It's really cool, you know, like, it's, it's. And what a story, right? Talk about overcoming adversity. Goes to incarnate word from a whole high school and goes with his coach to Washington State. Like, that guy. That, there's some internal drive to that guy that's very real and really, really, really, really impressive. But I would just, you know, is he a refined quarterback prospect right now? I would say no. Right. Like, it's just, you know, and is he a blast to watch, super productive. And is he, you know, leading Miami out of like, two decades of doldrums? Yes and yes. Like, he's been an alpha. He's been a leader. All those, you know, those intangible questions seem to be, seem to be answered, but he's just like, so loosey goosey. And the turn, there's turnover issues going all the way back and. Yeah, but like, that's what makes this.
- [54:39]
Todd McShay
This whole thing, what makes him brilliant also makes him really scary.
- [54:42]
Pete Thamel
Correct? Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's, that's Shakespearean. Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness, Right?
- [54:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [54:48]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. I, I, I mean, it'll be interesting to see the puzzle come together, but, like, I wouldn't be shocked if we end up with four dudes in the first round at the end. Just as like history with history as my guide.
- [54:59]
Todd McShay
Wow. Yeah.
- [55:00]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [55:02]
Pete Thamel
Yeah. Like, again, you can call this up, have me on in March and make fun of me, but I, I just think, like, there's so much need and there are some pretty talented toolsy guys that, yeah. You know, that, that it just, it just wouldn't, it wouldn't surprise me.
- [55:21]
Todd McShay
It doesn't have to be a great class for it to be a fun class. I've learned that over the years. This is going to be a fun class. Absolutely.
- [55:28]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [55:28]
Todd McShay
Well, we are going to call you up in March and we are going to, but we're not going to bring you in to make fun of you, but we, I appreciate your time, bud. I've just appreciated getting to know you and becoming friends with you and our trip to Boston College to.
- [55:40]
Pete Thamel
Yeah, right.
- [55:42]
Todd McShay
Jose Flowers and half and those guys and you know, just keep in touch. We'll talk to you soon and good luck and safe travels to you.
- [55:49]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [55:49]
Todd McShay
Awesome.
- [55:49]
Pete Thamel
I've enjoyed your new venture so far and we'll continue to be listening especially when the season ends and I'm in draft mode more than college football mode. But this has been this has been awesome Todd. Really appreciate you buddy.
- [55:59]
Todd McShay
Thanks bud. And everyone knows where to find him. College Game Day on Saturday, College Game day podcast and ESPN.com breaking news left and right. So we appreciate you Pete. Talk to you soon.
- [56:09]
Pete Thamel
Thanks Todd. Thanks Steve. This episode is brought to you by Vitamin Water Food, Entertainment Sports Teams New York City is one of those places that oozes choice. It's got something for every taste, so.
- [56:23]
Todd McShay
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Pete Thamel
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Todd McShay
So grab some vitamin water today, NYC style.
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Pete Thamel
Vitamin water is a registered trademark of.
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Todd McShay
Glass O My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for Career Day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com campaign.
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Pete Thamel
Terms and conditions apply.
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Steve Palazzolo
LinkedIn the Place to Be to Be.
- [57:11]
Todd McShay
The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. Keep your college football season going with a win on FanDuel because right now new customers can kick off the season with 150 bucks in bonus bets. Just place any five dollar bet and you'll get 150 bucks in bonus bets if you win, you use your bets on spreads, live bets, overs, unders and so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. Must be 21 or older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only. Five dollar first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com all right. M that was a lot of fun with th he never disappoints. It's you and I now. Let's not mess this thing up. We I I I love when you text me and you're all fired up about something and you kind of took it upon yourself to do a deep dive. I never know where you're going to go, but you did a deep dive into Ohio State. Their defense specifically but watching a lot of Ohio State tape and let's face it, like, there's a lot to get excited about now, now, now you have, if you're Ohio State, that signature win, if you will. You know, they played a great game for the most part. Not perfect game, but played a really good game, I'd say against Oregon in the loss. I don't even think on Saturday it was Ohio State's A game. I would say it was their B game. But had it been not for like three, four plays, it might, they might have blown out Penn State in Happy Valley. Like. Yeah, I think that's some.
- [59:00]
Steve Palazzolo
Something Ohio State can look at right now when they're looking forward about something to be optimistic about. I don't think they played their best game yet and they took, they were right there with Oregon at the end of that game and you look at that tape and again, that was not their best game. They still haven't put together that, that s their best performance. So I think that's something if you're, if you're an optimist that still might, you know, might come down the road when they need it the most.
- [59:25]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And I went back after you set up, you know, I'm doing a deep dive for whatever reason you decided on Ohio State. I went back and watched the two tapes, specifically Ohio State defense versus Oregon, Ohio State defense versus Penn State. And I saw improvement. I, I actually saw improvement from the first drive against Penn State and the adjustments they made like that first drive against Penn State, they were getting gashed up the middle and it was, it was Ty Leak Williams and the other defensive tackle, 58. I think it was Ty Hamilton. Yeah, Ty Hamilton. That to me like they were, they were getting up the field, they were penetrating, they were disrupting, but they were getting gassed in the middle of the field specifically by quarterback runs. So I don't know if it was a gap discipline thing. If they were getting out of my.
- [60:14]
Steve Palazzolo
That's been been an issue overall over the course of the year is they've been getting caught out of lanes. You see in the Oregon tape a little bit. I don't know if you did, but there was a couple of times that they let you know you have a 511 quarterback in Dylan Gabriel and they're letting him step up and create windows. It's not so much that they needed to get him to him. I thought they needed to take away space and really affect what he could see within the pocket. And they were just trying to, they were just, I thought too Aggressive.
- [60:38]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And. But after that first drive against Penn State, I noticed, like, we're pinching in more. More. More gap discipline. Not perfect, but. But more cognizant, if you will.
- [60:48]
Pete Thamel
Right.
- [60:48]
Steve Palazzolo
Me.
- [60:49]
Todd McShay
It was like they came over the sideline, talked to the coaches. Very obvious the tweaks they were making in game, which as a coordinator, you love that. That your. Your players are responding to what you're. You're coaching them on the sideline in game. Like, that's not always an easy thing to do. So I thought they cleaned that up. And so that the first drive, Drew Adler had three productive runs. I think it was three. Yeah, three productive runs. And from that point after that first drive, that was not really a major aspect of the game anymore. So to see them clean up some of those things was impressive. But let's just start with you, bud. Like, you went through the tape. I. I did, too. What stood out to you the most? And I'm gonna. I'll start with one thing, and then I'll let you take it. My God. Is number two different?
- [61:38]
Steve Palazzolo
Oh, yeah.
- [61:40]
Todd McShay
I mean, Caleb Downs, the safety for Ohio State, is like, he could play in the NFL tomorrow.
- [61:46]
Steve Palazzolo
Right?
- [61:46]
Todd McShay
I truly believe. And I don't say that lightly. I don't. I'm not one of those, like, oh, high school. Like, I don't believe in that sort of thing. I do believe in the tape, though, and I believe in the, like, his. His instincts, his aggressiveness versus support. Like, some guys are just different. You know what I mean? Like, some guys. All right, let's take 44 out of the game. And when he was matched up against. Against Warren, the tight end who had 17 catches against USC. Warren wasn't a factor, bud. Like, he wasn't. And just as impressive to me is, like, how quickly he. He was just firing the lane versus the run and how effective he is in support, how good his angles are when he gets there, how effective he is as a tackler and kind of filling in the gaps. So that was the first thing that jumped up because we're still. We are so focused, hyper focused on the prospects. Ty Leak, Williams, defensive tackle, along with Ty Hamilton. Igbosan at cornerback, number one. Then opposite side, 10, Denzel Burke. The two defensive ends, T.J. and Jack Sawyer. Like, so sometimes when you. When you know that number two's not a prospect, you just kind of, like, look past him. But sometimes guys are just impossible to look past. My takeaway, and it's a. You know, Malachi Stark's great player. Georgia. He's going to probably be the first safety off the board. Some other good safeties in this class, but 20, 26 is when like the guy and safety comes out. So that was my first takeaway. I want to know what jumped out to you.
- [63:22]
Steve Palazzolo
Well, yeah, I mean, he's, I think he's the best player every time he steps on the field. I don't know. I don't know who. I just don't know who's going to be better when he's on the field. And really quickly, just also the versatility. I mean, he's not just good at one thing or great at one thing. He can do literally everything. You want to play him in the box, you want to spot a quarterback, you want to play him deep or match him up against the tight end, whatever you want to do. And that's, that makes him that much more of a nightmare for offense coordinators. But to get into the, to the prospects a little bit, a lot of it was, you know, it's. We've already talked about this a lot and the standard is the standard at Ohio State, right? So let's keep this in perspective because I think some people might watch this and be like, yeah, men, Ohio State's still pretty good this year and look at the numbers and the stats. I get it. But the standard is the standard. And this is not the same kind of talent that we've seen in Ohio State in the past, in my, in my opinion. And still I say that. And the depth is good. I think nine players in that defense could get drafted. I think could get drafted. Will they all get drafted? I don't know. I think nine could get drafted. Who's your lock for a first round pick? Other than downs, who's not coming out this. Do you have a lock as a first round pick right now?
- [64:30]
Todd McShay
I don't have a lock. I mean, let's just do this. We'll ju. We'll jump ahead and then work our way back. I don't have a lock. And we can throw up a graphic and talk about this. I, it's too early in the process. We're not going to give out grades. You and I compared some notes. I think we're very similar. Like, you have your rankings, I have my rankings right now. We'll have long conversations about why that is. We'll have long conversations about our disagreements. But at the end of the day, I want your opinion. I have my opinion. And then when we're, when we're working together, we're, we're, we're Forming, you know, we're taking those opinions and we're stacking our board. So here's what I think we can agree on ballpark wise. And at this point in the year, for me it's not about. I always talk about landing planes. Okay, that's, you know, and I've hear like different people say I want to get them in the neighborhood, I want to get them in the zip code, then the neighborhood, then like the exact street. However you want to view it. I view it as air. Air traffic control. When we're in early November, right? We got a. It's 6am you got planes all. If you ever look on like the, the flight track app, you got thousands of planes flying from all over the country, right? And, and it's like how the hell are they going to land all these planes, right? And so we're kind of in that process. Like the flights took off at 6am it's now like 8am they're kind of starting to head towards their destination. I want to start getting them headed all in the right spot and figure out, okay, which ones are going to land first, which is the group that's going to be the second, second group of land and then so on and so forth. So for me, not giving grades, but if we tier them a little bit, who are the planes that are going to land first? The planes that are going to land first to me are Ty Leek Williams, defensive tackle and Davison Igbon Osin, the cornerback.
- [66:18]
Steve Palazzolo
Agree.
- [66:18]
Todd McShay
Those would be the top two. Then I think a secondary tier if you will, would be. Would be J.T. the defensive end. And I'll. I've got his pronunciation here. I'm not going to butcher it now so everyone can run with it, but I will get it right. I always do. Usually like Kuipers, Kuiper gets the pronunciations in August I get them by like November, December. But JT the Edge, 44 and 33, Jack Sawyer, those to me are like the second tier. Okay. And when I say second tier, we're talking day two. Tier three for me would be Denzel Burke. The other corner, number one, Ty Hamilton, defensive tackle, Lathan Ransom, safety. And then tier three tier. Tier four is kind of Cody Simon, the linebacker, who I, I think is significantly better. I don't want to say like a huge difference, but I think, I think he's a really good player. I don't think he's special elite. I think he's a damn good football player and I think he's going to play a while in the league, like covering kicks, backup linebacker, maybe works his way into a starting role and then Sunny Styles is like more of a fringe guy to me. The other, the other linebacker. So for me that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah. Nine guys that could get drafted. I'm not convinced that Styles will, but nine guys that have a chance to get drafted, right?
- [67:38]
Steve Palazzolo
I'm right there with you. I'm. The groupings are the same, so we're off to a good start. I guess I will say really quickly because I don't think we're spending a lot of time on him is. Styles is intriguing to me as that late round prior to free agent guy because he's a former safety. He's six four, he's 235. So yeah, you think former safety, you're, you're not thinking great size potential. I think he, he's a guy that maybe hangs around, makes a practice squad and works himself onto an active roster. There's some things that he does on film that I really like. I think he's still adjusting to the position, playing closer to the line of scrimmage more often now. But I think he's an interesting guy to keep an eye on if your team drafts late or signs as a free agent. But where do you want to go from here? You want to talk about it?
- [68:21]
Todd McShay
No, I want to go like if there are two or three guys in your opinion from what you saw that are, that are either playing above what we expected, starting to play like we expected, or are just not, you know, they are who they are. So give me a couple guys that stood out and what stood out about them.
- [68:38]
Steve Palazzolo
I loved the defensive tackle Ty League Williams coming into the year and I gave him. I, I know we're not talking grades. I thought he had a potential to be a first round pick. Maybe he still does. Now when I look at it, just to put in a little perspective, you look at the tackles that went at the top of the second round last year and please don't make me pronounce the Clemson defensive tackle. Can you do that one? The Clemson defensive tackle rook Aurora.
- [69:00]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah, Aurora.
- [69:02]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah. And then you got Johnny Newton, Tavandre Sweat, Braden Fisk. These are. I thought those guys were dudes last year. I thought they all had chances going and they end up going second round. So I, I get a little concerned about maybe talking about him as a first round pick. But he's, he is a guy that's. I think you look at it, the first thing is power Right. He's a run stuffer and, and that's great, but can he get to the quarterback? And he's not overly explosive or, you know, great change of direction, but he is good with his hands and he can move. He may never be a high, you know, sack producer or a high sack volume, but he can affect the quarterback.
- [69:40]
Todd McShay
Yeah, no, I agree. And I see him miss some tackles I get there, disrupt, not fall off tackles. A little. Yeah, a little tight change in direction. So. And to be honest, those names, those names you just said, like I, I had Fisked rated higher than some of the guys that won ahead of him. I was surprised.
- [69:57]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [69:57]
Todd McShay
Like, Fisk is a better baller last year than what I'm seeing from, from Ty Le. But, but, but he's in that neighborhood like I think. But I. But it's also important for some context. And again, it's early and some guys could have unbelievable workouts and all this. But like, if you normally have like 17 to 22 true first round grades in a draft, I don't know that we have 15 this year where you're like, like slam dunk psyched about it. Right. And. And it is what it is. But I also think it's an incredibly deep class and especially like at certain positions like running back. We've talked about, like there's a lot of talent, but I don't. So. So a second round grade last year may have been a first round grade this year, you know, and vice versa. So. So with all that said, Williams could go in the first round, but his grade may be more equivalent to a second round grade. What about Ignosi? Because, you know, Denzel Burke for a long time has been the guy that everyone is expected to elevate and be. And be the next great, you know, Ohio State coroner. That Oregon tape was tough, man.
- [71:01]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [71:03]
Todd McShay
Eyes. Eyes in the back, which I didn't see last year.
- [71:06]
Steve Palazzolo
I thought my notes from last year was an instinctive guy. I thought he was really good scheme, versatility. He was an off coverage. He struggled in that game.
- [71:15]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [71:16]
Steve Palazzolo
I was like, please just let him press. Just put him up. Because the more space he was in the, the less effective he was in that game. He had a bad day.
- [71:23]
Todd McShay
I wonder as the season progresses with Igbon, Osin and, and Burke. They played a lot of zone against Penn State. Yeah, they played a lot of off. They played more press against, against Penn State than they did against Oregon, which surprised me because. And I know we talked last night.
- [71:39]
Steve Palazzolo
And I want to get into that. Yeah.
- [71:40]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. But I. To me like this, these corners are more physical press get in your face.
- [71:48]
Steve Palazzolo
Right?
- [71:48]
Todd McShay
That's what I love about. Yeah, good.
- [71:51]
Steve Palazzolo
He's gonna make, he's gonna make your life a nightmare. Getting off the line. And he is so competitive and so tough and he's a little lean right now. I think he get a little bit bigger and stronger, but he is a, a mauler at the line of scrimmage. He just makes it really tough now. You live and die with that a little bit. He will get flagged. He does get overly aggressive and overly physical. That's one of the concerns I have. I want to see him run. But when you look at heat level. Yeah. The compete level though, in the, you know, not making it tougher. Guys get off the line. I think he, he's only has one pick, but I mean we, we've talked about the pick. I mean it was in. Unbelievable. I think he's going to be all right in terms of ball skills. So I just. Again, the thing that kept jumping out to me was the toughness. He will fight off blocks, get involved in the run. I mean he is, he is a tough, competitive player with good cover skills. I don't know if he's that elite shutdown guy. And again, the, the physicality, you live with it, but it's also a little bit of a concern at times.
- [72:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So I like, kind of. To sum it up, here's what I saw. Here's what I've seen so far. And I, and I do want to, like, I really want to preface this by saying while it, it's not one of the elite groups that we've seen in the last decade. And I'll get into that in a second. It's a damn good college football defense. Right. Find me, find me many, if any other defenses this year that have nine guys that could get drafted and a safety like Caleb Downs who's not eligible, who's going to be a first round pick.
- [73:18]
Steve Palazzolo
Right.
- [73:19]
Todd McShay
And probably going to be a top 15 pick. So. So like let's keep, let's keep perspective here. I don't. Right. We don't need the lunatic fringe from Ohio State, like, you know, getting after us. Like that's not what we're here for. I'm here to put perspective on it. And so like it's a damn good defense and it's a defense that's improving. I think that's the most important thing. Like we talked to Joel Klatt last week and he was saying like, Talking to coaches, like, there's disappointment in, in individual performances and they're having to blitz more and take more chances because they're not getting some of the play out of the guys that they expected to get. Well, I, I started to see against Penn State, they're starting to get play out of those certain guys that they, they were disappointed in earlier in the year. So, like, it's progressing the right way. I also think as a team, not just defensively, Ohio State, like, you gotta understand the pressure cooker that this, this organization, if you will, that this program is in.
- [74:13]
Steve Palazzolo
It's different, man.
- [74:14]
Todd McShay
And so, like, they had one huge game early, early in the year, and they lose it on the road in a brutal finish of that game, right? And. And then it's like all this lead up to Penn State and you're going to Happy Valley. And what if this is the year where we. We lose again to a top five opponent, but it's Penn State and we should always beat Penn state. We're like 14 or less, 16 or whatever the numbers are. So I think I'm excited to see Ohio State from this point on. Are they free? Do they start to play loose? Is that like monkey off their back, to use an old cliche? You know what I mean? Because I. Because when you live in Columbus and, And you've got like, everyone's talking about one thing, Ohio State football. And for a long time after Oregon, it was. Everyone's talking about one thing they're not achieving at the level we expect the best roster money could buy. So, like, I think I'm interested to see the psychology if all of a sudden Ohio State's like, yeah, all right, we're here. That, like, that's more like what. What we. What we expected to put on tape. We got that. We got past that huge hurdle. Now let's just go play ball. And you look at the rest of the schedule, like Purdue, you know, I want to see him come out and just absolutely stomp. Purdue at Northwestern, India in Indiana program. In Indiana program undefeated, playing great ball. But let's face it, like, the gap in talent between those two, like, that to me would be a statement game. Like, all right, Indiana.
- [75:39]
Steve Palazzolo
I'm excited for that game. Yeah, yeah.
- [75:41]
Todd McShay
Like, this is cute, but, like, we're Ohio State and, right? They should now to go play our level. Our level ball, right? And then Michigan, if they can, like, if they can exercise that, that demon and get past that Michigan game. I lost, by the way, to Michigan this year. I don't. I don't want to see the fallout.
- [75:58]
Steve Palazzolo
No.
- [75:59]
Todd McShay
From what we're seeing on tape, like, this Ohio State team is getting better. So I'm excited to see what happens down the stretch. But now let's go back. I think, and maybe it's just old news because everyone was talking about how great this defense was. And I think it stems from early in the year where they were like, historically, this is one of the great all time defenses. This, they're damn good, but they're not at the level of some of the defenses that we've seen. Like go back to 2015, the national championship, Alabama one, right. 20. That 2016 NFL draft, the April right after, they had four second rounders, including Reggie Ragland, Ashaan Robinson, Jaron Reed. Like that was a, that was a damn good defense. And I think most important is they also had a lot of young contributors on that defense. The 2017 draft was when a lot of those guys finally came out. You know, who were sophomores or juniors in during the 2015 season. Three first rounders, seven total draft picks. So you had, you had 11 guys that went on to get drafted the next two drafts from that defense, an entire starting defense, and seven of them were in the first two rounds. So like that's different than what we're talking about with a couple second rounders, maybe like third and fourth rounders. 2017 Alabama defense, a few, a couple years later, after all those guys got drafted, that's when I, when I talk about reloading as pro, like the, the historically great ones, the last decade, at least. The 2017 Alabama National Championship team had in the 2018 draft, three first rounders. Minka Fitzpatrick, Jaron Payne, Rashawn Evans and eight total starters were drafted from that defense. Okay. Like that, that group was stacked. 20, 20, 2021, Georgia, arguably the best defense we've ever seen. That was, I mean, when you want to talk elite, this is what you're up against. They had nine defensive players drafted. Almost the entire defense was drafted. And, and this is the difference. Ohio State may have nine, but it's going to be backloaded.
- [77:59]
Steve Palazzolo
Right.
- [77:59]
Todd McShay
Georgia was front loaded. Five first rounders. Ready for this? Yeah. Trayvon, I want you to listen. Trayvon Walker, Jordan Davis, Quay Walker, Devonte Wyatt and Louis Scene. Okay. Yeah. And so five of those nine were first rounders. And then by the way, Jalen Carter was a backup. He was rotating, you know. Right.
- [78:24]
Steve Palazzolo
He couldn't come out yet.
- [78:25]
Pete Thamel
Right.
- [78:26]
Todd McShay
Couldn't come out yet. So just that's the perspective. So I think I'm still Like getting over the frustration of like watching game day and certain shows and, and big noon kick and they're talking about this has a chance to be one of the great all time defense. Like they're damn good, but it's not a historically great defense. And so it's got to be, it's got to be a little bit more balanced and Ohio State has got to like, I think they found their identity offensively. Okay.
- [78:52]
Pete Thamel
Right.
- [78:53]
Todd McShay
I think it's running the football, letting Chip Cook as a, as an offensive play caller in the run game, allowing Will Howard opportunities like he had with Brandon Tate. And he missed that throw and threw him out of bounds down the right, down the right rail. But, but hopefully next time that opportunity presents itself, he puts that ball on him. Now, now you've got a little bit more of a comfortable lead. You know, now it's a two touchdown way, but running the football, utilizing Will Howard's mobility, those are the things that to me are going to be the signatures moving forward with Ohio State. And that's the kind of balance when you have an offense that complements the defense. Now you've got a team, right? And I think that they were trying to figure things out early in the season and I think now they know the identity we talked about in that Nebraska game. They were running the ball into a, into a wall, right? But why did they do that? Because Chip was like, like, if we can't do it against Nebraska, we don't have a season anyway. So we're like, if you're a fan.
- [79:52]
Steve Palazzolo
Of that team, I would say the one, you know, the one kind of negative or downer there is, you look at those wide receivers and you're like, man, I just want to air it out. I just want to, I mean, let's get those guys the ball as much as possible. But if you're trying to win a national championship and you're, and you want to be the best team you are, and this is your identity, those guys are going to make plays. They may not put up the numbers. They may not put up those big numbers that you might want to see. But watch out. They're, they're critical points in that game. Chip's gonna find a way, it's gonna find a way to those, to those playmakers.
- [80:22]
Todd McShay
Also. Chip's also, he's, he's, he's a, he's an efficient, smart card player at the poker table, right?
- [80:29]
Steve Palazzolo
Yep.
- [80:30]
Todd McShay
He's not going to go in there and just start slinging cards to sling cards, right? You just Got down to your third offensive tackle, left tackle the week before, and now you're plugging your. Your left guard and at left tackle. First game, he started that position. Taking your center from a year ago, hasn't started this year. He's never played guard, plugging him in a guard. So, like, we're not going to come out and start, you know, going and drop back and slinging the ball 30 times in this game. Like, that's just not. That's not what he's going to do. You've got to play to your strengths. So now that he's a little bit more confident in Donovan Jackson and believes that, you know, believes in him a little bit more, I think we'll see a little bit more balance offensively. But that was absolutely protecting, feeling things out throughout the game and going with what we know we got right now.
- [81:22]
Steve Palazzolo
He's, you know, you talk about that Purdue game. He can go sort of go no offense to Purdue, but he can kind of like just go back in the lab and he's going to take notes about, you know, he'll try a few different things, I think, in that game and say this works well. If this works now, I feel good about it later on. And if this isn't working against Purdue, we probably aren't going to roll this out against Oregon. He's got some. He's got some matchups coming up where he can. Where that team can get a little more confidence and Chip can have a little more confidence in what he wants to do.
- [81:49]
Todd McShay
Let me take a quick second, right? I'm not. I'm not a commercial guy, promo guy, you know, I'm not. But I think it's important just to let everyone know we're fired. Like this. Big week, Mensch. We got the college football rankings reveal, you know, that we've talked about. Tonight after the rankings reveal show mention, I are going to be back on. We're going to do a. You get done with the show and you're like, who can I talk to? Like, who am I called? Like, just come. Come check us out. We'll hopefully not drive you crazy, but we're gonna have some fun with that and figure out, like, it's the first time that we now get a glimpse into the committee's, you know, mindset, right? And let's talk about that, have some fun. Like, is Alabama going to be in the top 12? Where do they put Indiana? How high is BYU? You know, like, what do we.
- [82:31]
Steve Palazzolo
Like, what don't we like?
- [82:33]
Todd McShay
Yeah, so, yeah, so we're gonna have some fun with that. And then the other thing that we're excited about this week, Saturday night, like, perfect timing. We. We had to, like, kind of, you know, trudge through our first shows Saturday night, the reaction show. You know, we did it after the great Texas A and M, Texas A and M.L.S.U. game two weeks ago. This past week, we did it after Ohio State, Penn State and a couple other games. But this week, we're live on YouTube. You've got to check this out. Right after Herbie and Fowler get done with that lsu, Alabama game, you got to come join us. We're going to break down that game, some of the other big games as well, but it's our first show that we're going to do live on Saturday night. We're excited about, about that moving forward. That's going to be it. When you're done watching that primetime game, come hang with us. If you get some time and you want to kind of air things out mentally and hear what our takes are, yell at us a little bit, agree with us if you want, however it goes. So I just wanted to promo those two things that we're really excited about this week. All right, let me go back and kind of put a bow on all this. And this is. I got done watching that tape, and when I, when you told me that you were watching Ohio State, I went back and I wanted to make sure that I studied up on Ohio State versus Oregon and then Ohio State versus Penn State. But then I got, you know what happens? Like a rabbit hole. Everyone can relate.
- [83:51]
Steve Palazzolo
Oh, yeah.
- [83:51]
Todd McShay
Went on your phone. You go to. You go to look up one thing, like, why. Why is the moon. Is it a harvest moon? And then you wind up, like, down, like looking at UFOs.
- [84:00]
Pete Thamel
Right?
- [84:00]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [84:01]
Steve Palazzolo
Like, no, it's absolutely true.
- [84:03]
Todd McShay
So my rabbit hole last night, and I'm sitting there watching Monday Night Football and I'm tweeting about, about Caleb Downs, and now I'm. Now I'm on to Oregon. And now all of a sudden it's like 11:35. It's like, why don't you come up to bed and like, what just happened? And all that stuff. But. But I got on Oregon, right? Let me start with this match, okay? There are some other damn good teams out there, like Texas. Texas needed to buy week more than any program I can remember. Like, Quinn Ewers needed time to reset, get healthy. I expect to see a different Texas than we saw the one kind of limping through the last couple of outings. Okay, Georgia, if They can figure out. It's shocking to say this in November, right? But Carson Beck, if he can cut down on the mistakes and if Georgia can put, put out the tape that we saw, you know, even second half of Alabama, the Texas game, like Georgia can be up there in, in the elite class, but the inconsistency is a little maddening at this point. When I got done with Oregon last night, here's what popped in my head and I'll. I'll share this with you. It won't, it will not surprise me at all. Based off of where Ohio State is and the improvement that I'm seeing from them week after week, and especially from Oregon to Penn State and the way that Oregon has played from the jump and remember we were all saying, like, ah, they don't look that good. They only beat Boise State by three. Well, Boise State is on a run, man. Boise State's good team. In Boise State, when the college football rankings reveal comes out, could be in the top 10, right? So having watched all of Oregon now and seeing both sides of the ball, but really studying that offense, I will not be surprised at all if we see Oregon, Ohio State three times this year.
- [85:53]
Steve Palazzolo
Interesting. I wouldn't be either. I hate that we're agreeing so much. I'm seeing the exact same thing, honestly.
- [85:59]
Todd McShay
And we don't know how the rankings are going to be. We don't know what the matchups are going to be. And Texas and Georgia and maybe one or two other programs are capable of ruining this whole thing. But I truly think they're both talented enough. I think Oregon's the most complete team in college football. And I did not think that. After the first three weeks of the season, I looked at Ohio State, the Ohio State game, and I was like, oh, they're damn good. And I've watched them since and I keep waiting for like, are they going to sputter a little bit? Are they not going to show up this week? Like, Illinois comes in, Illinois is a good team. They're not at the level, but Illinois is a good team. And they just, they put out that fire in a matter of minutes, like, yeah, no problem. Then they go to Michigan. We all know what Michigan is. I get it. But Michigan was up for that game. Michigan showed like that was their last stand, if you will. We'll see that, that effort one more time, and it will be against Ohio State. But Michigan threw its best punches and hunger and tried to hang around in that game, right? But Oregon handled it the whole way through. To me, like, Oregon is The most complete team in college football, Ohio State. That performance against Penn State was just the jumping off point in my opinion. They will keep getting better. It won't surprise me at all towards whether it's the semifinal. I don't know where it will be, whether it's in the national championship. Who knows how the seedings are, right? Oregon, Oregon, Ohio State play again in the College Football Playoff after already playing a tight game in Oregon early in the season and then playing in the Big Ten championship, which we, I think we all agree we're headed towards that. And what an awesome thing that would be.
- [87:36]
Steve Palazzolo
We should be so lucky. Yeah, we should be so lucky to get that.
- [87:40]
Todd McShay
Yeah. We're clearly two of the best teams and clearly the best team so far in Oregon. They wind up playing a third time and how great would it be if Ohio State knocks off Oregon? Oh, and now, now they're one and one in the series and it's like, and we keep building towards that and maybe it's a semi final game. I don't know how it's going to lay out. Maybe it's a semi final game and then the winner of that goes on to play like the best from the sec. Like, to me that's, that's football nirvana, right? You know? Yeah, I, I just. And the reason I'm saying this, Dylan Gabriel can play.
- [88:14]
Steve Palazzolo
Dude, it's unreal.
- [88:16]
Todd McShay
He's got weapons.
- [88:18]
Steve Palazzolo
You got a lot about your guy. You keep talking about your guy, Will Stein and I'm just going to be upfront about. I don't know if you can talk about him enough. I mean, what he, what I'm watching.
- [88:27]
Todd McShay
The Ohio State offense and how brilliant Chip Kelly has been, right? I'm watching that offense, I'm watching Penn State and come on, they have really good game plan early on but Ohio State adjusted and then I'm, and then I put on the Oregon offensive tape and I'm like, oh, this is different.
- [88:42]
Steve Palazzolo
Right?
- [88:43]
Todd McShay
They're spread, they're spreading you out, they're staggering receivers.
- [88:46]
Steve Palazzolo
You're making it tough to get their hands on them and yeah, sorry.
- [88:50]
Todd McShay
Progressions make sense. The run and Jordan James most we're talking. I saw Nagy had a tweet and I don't disagree. We've talked about it a bunch. I don't, we don't steal naggy stuff. I just, I. He's our guy. Like we love Jim. Known him for 25 years. He said been talking to NFL teams. I started a tweet yesterday that NFL teams, they're 25 to 30 running backs with actual NFL grades. I want to say this right now. Jordan James is the most underrated running back in this class. My God, I love his run style. He's quick, he's got vision. He makes sharp cuts. He, he's tough to bring down. He's not overpowering at all.
- [89:28]
Steve Palazzolo
But he, but he, he, he's also no nonsense though. He gets down.
- [89:31]
Todd McShay
No, no nonsense.
- [89:33]
Steve Palazzolo
He's a chain mover. He puts you in good spots. He never, he never hurts you. He almost always helps you. You know what I mean? If nothing's there, he's going to get north, south and he's going to get exactly what he can. Really tough kid. Really talented. The vision and patience jump out as much as the burst and competitiveness. Again, a guy you've been. You were on before me, which I hate, but I have to give you your flowers.
- [89:55]
Todd McShay
And, and dude, he gave Ohio State fits.
- [89:59]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [89:59]
Todd McShay
Pressing the line of scrimmage and the quick cutbacks, like guys were swinging and missing guys were taking horrible angles. It was a tough tape to watch on, on Sunday. Sunday or Monday. Whenever they watch it if you're Ohio State's defense because they look. It's. There's a difference in like getting out of position. They looked. It was like embarrassing at times because of his ability to sense a cut back lane to make that one sharp cut and go.
- [90:24]
Steve Palazzolo
He sees were buckling their knees.
- [90:26]
Todd McShay
Yes. Ransom.
- [90:28]
Pete Thamel
Yeah.
- [90:28]
Steve Palazzolo
I didn't want to bring his name up, but you're.
- [90:29]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Number eight. Number eight. Like check him for injury. Bring them up like how's his ankle? You know, like it was wild to watch. And then the receivers. Right. You know, the receivers like you know we talked about, we talked about Tez Johnson and I saw the report coming out. Yeah. Yeah. So he's going to be back. The shoulder injury. But, but in his absence we got guys stepping up and I've talked about. They've got four legitimate receivers. But. But the biggest, the two biggest takeaways. We just talked about James at running back. The other one is if Dylan Gabriel isn't 511, are we talking about him as a higher draft prospect?
- [91:12]
Steve Palazzolo
I. I think without question, without question.
- [91:15]
Todd McShay
And I'm not like coming in this year. I'm not a Gabriel guy. I just, you know, up and down, inconsistent. Like hero ball at times doesn't. But you like Will Stein, the offensive coordinator has done such a brilliant job. He did a brilliant job with Bo Nicks and you saw Bo Nicks progress and now he gets with Another coach in the NFL. And you're seeing the progression outside of this Sunday, when they only put up 10 against 41 in Baltimore. But with Sean Payton kind of picking up, it's like, all right, I've nursed this thing back to health right now. I'm going to pass it over to you. He's ready to go, you know, take it. Like, let him fly, right? That's the best way I could put it. Like, set him free. Yeah.
- [91:58]
Steve Palazzolo
Like, he came.
- [91:59]
Todd McShay
Like, he was.
- [91:59]
Steve Palazzolo
He was.
- [92:00]
Todd McShay
He was an injured bird. When he came out to Oregon, he was an injured.
- [92:03]
Steve Palazzolo
I mean, it's an.
- [92:05]
Todd McShay
Coming from Auburn. And so. So Will, like, you know, he nursed him back to health. He petted them and loved him and gave him, like, sunshine and food and, you know, taped up his bruises and got him to this level. And all of a sudden, now Sean Payton's like, okay, now. Now we're gonna go fly. And Gabriel wasn't as wounded right, as. As. As Bo Nix was. He wasn't.
- [92:27]
Steve Palazzolo
Gabriel beat Texas at Oklahoma last year.
- [92:29]
Todd McShay
I mean, but Gabriel had flaws, man. He had, like, so many mistakes. Too aggressive at time, didn't know when to, like to channel it versus reel it back. And now I'm watching this guy and the confidence man, like, so decisive. Like, it's like watching Drew Brees in the college level from the left side. You know, that southpaw, just, like, quick decisions, knows where he wants to go with the ball, like, moving around, creating accuracy. Yeah, yeah. Like, he's a. He's a damn good college quarterback. And I. And like, I don't know, 5, 11 to 10 to 15. It's not necessarily about size that you have to be elite and special. I'm not saying he's going to be a starter in the NFL, but, like, for the first time ever, watching his tape, I think Dylan Gabriel's got a shot to hang around in the NFL as a backup for a little while and see what happens, you know, and I didn't. I didn't think that. I just. I am so impressed with this Oregon team. Right.
- [93:27]
Steve Palazzolo
I mean, I agree with everything you're saying. I do think I will say that. The Tez injury, I'm worried about.
- [93:35]
Todd McShay
I.
- [93:35]
Steve Palazzolo
You know, let's. We'll see how that all plays out. I don't want to speculate because as talented as they are, he's the best. He is. You know, Evan Stewart came over, Texas A M, talented kid. The Alabama transfer, Holden had a really big game. I just think that Cortez is their Their best weapon. So ideally, you want to see him stick around. I mean, you want to see him get back in the lineup. Sorry, not stick around. You see him get back healthy and 100 and playing at the level he's been playing all year.
- [94:04]
Todd McShay
I mean, holding. That's 28 catches. And when he was asked to step up this last week, I mean, it was.
- [94:09]
Steve Palazzolo
I hear you.
- [94:10]
Todd McShay
Watch. And he's.
- [94:11]
Steve Palazzolo
I hear you.
- [94:11]
Todd McShay
He brings a little something different. Like those other guys aren't the biggest receivers.
- [94:15]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, Holden is by far their.
- [94:16]
Todd McShay
Their biggest holding 63205, you know, and to watch him, you know, he's. What was it, four for 78 in the second week. Boise State, he had five.
- [94:27]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [94:28]
Todd McShay
Seven against. Against UCLA. But when they needed him to step up this past week, with Tez out, six for 1:49.
- [94:36]
Steve Palazzolo
And again, a testament to Gabriel, this guy's been, you know, he's been playing well, and he's been. You know, he's been flashing. And Gabriel's like, you know what? I'll go. I'll throw him six times for 149 yards. I'll find the open guy.
- [94:48]
Todd McShay
To Gabriel and to Will Stein.
- [94:50]
Steve Palazzolo
Right again. Yeah.
- [94:52]
Todd McShay
Because I'm not saying the system's getting him open. I'm taking nothing away from Holden. I'm taking nothing away from. From justice low, number 14. They played. They've stepped up, you know, and. And. And Low, like, Low had two catches for 51 against Illinois. Kind of his breakout game also, I think, carried the ball on, like, a reverse or something. And then this past week, Michigan had six. Another six catches. So, like, there's talent there, there's depth. You love that, and you need that for a stretch run. And we're seeing it right now when you're. When your top guy goes down to still have three dudes and to still have two. Herbert and the. The tight ends like Sadiq, to have those and then have a running game with the balance. And it's not just James, but it is James. You know what I mean?
- [95:36]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [95:39]
Todd McShay
I am a believer in Oregon. I mean, I guess that's my biggest takeaway. I think Ohio State is now. Is now progressing and is ready to take off like a rocket ship. I think Oregon's there already.
- [95:52]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah.
- [95:53]
Todd McShay
And I'm. And I would love to see a semifinal game with Oregon. Ohio State to see. All right, we're gonna. We're gonna settle the things in. In the north and the west. And now let's go in the national championship game. Let's get the north and the west versus the South. You know, whether it's Georgia or Texas or whoever it turns out to be. That to me would be the dream scenario.
- [96:13]
Steve Palazzolo
Yeah, I think, listen, I'll go on right now on November 5th. Let's just, you know, this is where I'm at right now. I got Ohio State winning that game in the Big Ten championship. I think they in this, this is why. Okay, I think we've already mentioned it. Ohio State hasn't played their best game yet. I think Oregon is playing at such an elite level that we're seeing the best of Oregon right now. Ohio State, we still haven't seen the best of. And I gotta believe for that game that Ryan Day gets them there, that Chip Kelly is ready for that game, that they have enough on defense. They do some things a little bit differently. They learn from the, they have tape now. They know what they did last time. They know what works. They know what doesn't work. I, I think it's gonna be close. I'm not saying that Ohio State's gonna go in there and handle Oregon. That, that would be crazy. But I think Ohio State, I, I, I have them winning that game right now. If you had.
- [97:03]
Todd McShay
We got a lot of exciting stuff coming up, man. Like tonight I'm fired.
- [97:06]
Steve Palazzolo
Ready to go there, huh?
- [97:08]
Todd McShay
No, I, I, I was, I was actually letting you finish and be the last word. Are you uncomfortable with that?
- [97:16]
Steve Palazzolo
No, I'm good with that. I'm just not used to it. So that, that had me.
- [97:20]
Todd McShay
That's fair. That part's fair. Tonight, rankings reveal show so fired up. Like I thank you to everyone, by the way too. Like, I'm used to ESPN like 17 years. Every my comment box is just a disaster. I'm a horrible human being. I don't know how to evaluate. I suck. Kuiper's better. All people, people in this, like, in this world, like, maybe it's the ringer. It can't be Rosillo. Like, he's a miserable son of a, you know. But, but people like I've been very appreciative of the support that we've gotten early on. Going to keep chipping away at this thing and keep trying new things. Thursday, man, I'm excited for this. We heard everyone's talking about Cam Ward, Shadour Sanders. Okay, number one, number two, quarterback Nussmeyer from, from lsu. Does he stay? Does he go? All that? But then we talked to Nagy last week and it's like Cam Ward was a fifth, sixth round or I don't like I think, yeah, he's the fastest rising prospect in the draft, but first round's too rich for a lot of guys I'm talking to in the league week. Is there something behind that? Is there some, you know, does he have some motivation in that comment? So what don't we know? So I took, I've taken upon myself, I've reached out to some GMs, I've reached out to a couple area scouts I know that have covered him, that know I've also, I've dug into the tape. Most importantly, that's I'm going through every one of Cam Ward's throws and I will finish that up by Thursday. We're gonna have a big discussion about Cam Ward on Thursday. We're gonna have a big discussion about LSU and Alabama. Huge game. Alabama doesn't win that their season's ruined and they're not getting in the playoffs. So, so much on the line in that game. We'll get to that's my guy. We'll get to where the scouts are going to be all that stuff on Thursday and then again Saturday night. We couldn't be more excited. Please join us after the primetime game of Alabama LSU in Baton Rouge. If you're in your car after, if you're just sitting on your couch and you want to watch, pop us on YouTube. We're going to go live right after that primetime game. We're going to break down lsu, Alabama and I'm sure a couple other games that were critical. So again, thanks for joining us. If you get a chance, tell your friends, subscribe like all the things you need to do. You can find us on Spotify, you can find us anywhere that you get, that you download your podcasts. And also every week we've got clips and full shows on YouTube. So thanks again. I speak for Mensch here, even though I tried to give him the last word. We appreciate all of you for listening. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18+ and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.