Combine Coverage Day One: Intel and Evaluating Who Is Primed to Shine in Indy. Plus, Patriots EVP Eliot Wolf.

Summary

The McShay Show – Combine Coverage Day One: Who’s Primed to Shine in Indy & Interview with Patriots’ Eliot Wolf

Podcast: The McShay Show
Host: The Ringer
Episode Date: February 23, 2026
Episode Theme: Live from the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Todd McShay and team break down which prospects are set to raise their draft stock, analyze trends in this year’s draft class, and are joined for a revealing interview with New England Patriots EVP Eliot Wolf about front office philosophy, draft strategy, and his career path.

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Episode Overview

On Combine Day One, The McShay Show sets up shop in Indianapolis to provide inside analysis on which prospects are poised to make headlines at the NFL Combine. Co-hosts Mike Giardi and Daniel Jeremiah (with on-set appearances by Eliot Wolf) focus on:

• Players expected to work out and potentially soar up draft boards
• Trends and traits driving team evaluation in 2026
• In-depth scouting insights on top positional groups
• A wide-ranging, candid interview with Patriots’ EVP Eliot Wolf covering his football upbringing, front office evolution, and decision-making process

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

NFL Combine: High-Profile Prospects Ready to Pop

(03:26 – 24:00)

• Big-Name Confirmed Workouts:

  • Jeremiah Love (RB, Notre Dame), Arvell Reese (LB, Ohio State), and Sonny Styles (LB/S, Ohio State) have all announced they’ll fully participate. McShay emphasizes these are “players we expect will work out and really help their draft value here,” but notes plans could change last-minute.

  “Jeremiah Love, star back out of Notre Dame, is going to run the 40 and do all the position drills… Arvell Reese… Sonny Styles also expected to work out. Three big names.” – Mike Giardi (03:53)

• Tackle Class Trends:

  • Monroe Freeling (OT, Georgia) called a “first round conversation” riser with rare athleticism and length (34–35” arms); could jump up boards after workouts. (05:07)
  • Noted contrast in positional value: “Year of the right tackle” but Freeling stands out as an elite left tackle prospect. (Freeling, Fano, Miller, and Mawinoa among top OTs discussed.)

• Athletic Linebacker Values:

  • Sonny Styles is compared to Nick Emanwari (combine “freak” in 2025), hyped for “size, speed, and explosiveness” with potential elite jumps (11’ broad, 40” vertical) and 243 lbs at 6’4.5” (09:30).
  • Discussion of analytics in LB evaluation: Key measurables—vertical, broad, bench, and weight.

  “If he’s in that range, which we assume he will be, he’s got a chance to be one of the stories here at the combine.” – Mike Giardi (11:12)

• Versatile Defenders & Risers:

  • Jake Golday (LB, Cincinnati): Height/weight/speed off-ball linebacker who can play box, slot, or edge (12:00).
  • Peter Woods (iDL, Clemson): Production dipped, but high athletic upside (potential 4.9 forty at 300+ lbs, 33” vertical, 34 bench). Could shoot from late-first into top-15 after a strong combine.

    “Peter Woods… when we exit this thing, two, three weeks after, there’s a real good chance he starts to climb back up.” – Mike Giardi (15:34)

• Safety Prospects:

  • Dylan Thienaman (Oregon/Purdue): Projected to run in the 4.3s, explosive vertical, versatile enough to play box and deep roles.

    “I expect him to run really well and when you watch him on the field…he’s going to shine during those drills.” – Daniel Jeremiah (18:52)

• Wide Receiver Spotlights:

  • Denzel Boston (Washington): Contested catch monster, could seal WR4 status (after Tate, Lemon, Tyson) with a sub-4.5 forty (21:28).

    “If he runs in the four-fours, at 6’3¾” and 212 lbs…he’s the fourth wide receiver and locks in top 25, maybe elevates to top 20.” – Mike Giardi (21:15)

• Center and Tight End Depth:

  • Logan Jones (C, Iowa): “Freaky” lower-body explosive metrics (36.5” vertical, 1.53 10-yd split) and zone-blocking quickness.
  • Eli Stowers (TE, Vanderbilt) and Marlon Klein (TE, Michigan): Noted for top GPS MPH, vertical/broad jumps, and late-round sleeper profile respectively.

    “Stowers can become the clear cut number two after this week.” – Mike Giardi (26:20)

• Defensive Back Preview:

  • Brendan Cece (CB, South Carolina): Pro scouts call him, “From the neck down, best cornerback in this class”—elite measurables, raw upside. Could exit combine in Day 2 mix if his 4.3 forty and long arms check out.

    “This week is an opportunity for Brandon Cece to really get an edge…” – Mike Giardi (32:59)

• Under-the-Radar Names to Watch:

  • Kaden Proctor (OT, Alabama), Mike Washington (RB, Arkansas), Kenyon Siddiq (TE), and Cole Payton, Jaxon Lance (North Dakota State).
  • “Cole Payton… name to get to know, and Jaxon Lance… 6’3, 207 lbs, 40” vertical, 10’10” broad.” – Mike Giardi (36:53)

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Combine Absences and Injury News

• Nicholas Singleton (RB, Penn State) broke foot at Senior Bowl and will not work out: “He did not have a great year. This was one of those, I thought he had an opportunity to shine…” – Daniel Jeremiah (37:16)

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Interview: Patriots EVP Eliot Wolf

(41:38 – 74:16) [Full Interview: 41:38–74:16]

Background, Philosophy, and the Ron Wolf Legacy

• Growing up scouting and watching tape in Lambeau with his father, Hall of Famer Ron Wolf
• “Treating people the right way and making sure everyone’s invested in the team and the vision you have…putting in the work and trusting what you see.” – Eliot Wolf (43:15)

Scouting & Evaluation Process

• On grading scales: Wolf moved from New England’s “minutia-heavy” old system (Pioli/Belichick) to the streamlined Ron Wolf “Packers scale.”

  “We have so much information now, we get bogged down…It’s really just sticking to what’s important…and that’s who the good players are.” – Eliot Wolf (44:24)

• On self-scouting and defending/abandoning picks (re: Will Campbell, OT):

  “The important thing is being honest with yourself and with your team, not having an agenda…Protecting your draft picks, if that’s not the best thing for the team, you have to do something different.” – Wolf (46:25)

• On “outliers” (e.g., arm length, size):

  “Each case is different. In Will’s case, elite hand use, technique, great feet, ability to recover—enough compensating factors.” – Wolf (47:43)

Career Path, Mentors & Team Dynamics

• Miami undergrad, recruiting for historic 2001 Miami Hurricanes
• 14 years in Green Bay, then Cleveland (huge analytics focus), now New England EVP of Player Personnel
• On working with Mike Vrabel:

  “We just want to win…awareness to understand as long as everyone’s pulling the right direction, putting the team first—we have the chance to do something special.” – Wolf (50:00)

Adapting to Analytics and Modern Front Offices

• Green Bay “small analytics department” to Cleveland’s “biggest…was an adjustment.”
  • Now in New England, supplementing with hires from 49ers and Dolphins analytics staffs.

On Drafting Drake May & Franchise QB Approach

“The toughness and the competitiveness are just off the charts, and that’s really ultimately what won us over.” – Wolf (56:40–57:54)

• Wolf always valued attending top QB games live to observe intangibles.

• On looking ahead at future classes:

  “At quarterback, you have to be aware of what’s coming—but at other positions, projecting more than a year out is dangerous.” – Wolf (58:35)

• QB evaluation process:

  “I’m really more interested in how they answer the questions…are they a little full of shit? As far as the actual X’s and O’s, we rely on the coaching staff.” – Wolf (60:33)

On Team Building After Drafting a QB

• No set “formula” for next steps; always building, balancing protection/playmakers and defensive speed.

Draft Board Process

• Final Patriots board typically around 200 players, with “upside down” candidates (character/injury red flags) getting flagged for deeper discussion.

  “We try to make it as realistic as possible…when the bullets are flying…you have to make the best decisions you can.” – Wolf (69:25–70:17)

Learning from Failure & Listening to Scouts

“The biggest failures have come when you don’t listen to the scouts…You think the talent can outweigh some of the things they said… We’ve tried to make sure…got to listen to the scouts because they know these guys better than anyone.” – Wolf (70:37)

Favorite and Least Favorite Aspects of the Job

“My favorite part is sitting in my office and watching college film…But really, it’s still winning—being on the sideline and seeing the joy of the guys.” – Wolf (66:42)

• Least favorite: player discipline issues and non-football tasks.

Draft Weekend Foods & Traditions

“Ted Harper is in charge of nutrition. For the first night, it’s Davio’s—steak and lobster, karma brings in sushi, then always some special dessert…” – Wolf (72:36)

• “Last year they had soft pretzels dusted with cinnamon and sugar. Those went pretty fast.” – Wolf (73:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Compensating for Flaws in Prospects:

  “Each case is different…In Will’s case, elite hand use and technique, great feet, ability to recover…as well as his makeup and the person—we felt like we were getting a good one.” – Eliot Wolf (47:43)

• On Listening to Scouts:

  “The biggest failures as far as drafting players have come when you don’t listen to the scouts…they know these guys better than anyone.” – Wolf (70:37)

• On Favorite Part of the Job:

  “Being able to sit in my office and watch college film…But really, it’s still winning. Being on the sideline at the end of the game, seeing the joy of the guys…” – Wolf (66:42)

• Combining Analytics & Tape:

  “I've spent years talking to analytics people and trying to drill down...What are the measurables that matter? I'm constantly updating that list and with linebacker...you can’t ignore it.” – Mike Giardi (08:51–09:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:26 – Combine workouts: Jeremiah Love, Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles
• 05:07 – Monroe Freeling tackle class breakdown
• 09:51 – Analytics in linebacker evaluation
• 15:34 – Peter Woods DT discussion
• 18:30 – Dylan Thienaman safety evaluation
• 21:16 – Denzel Boston WR analysis
• 26:20 – Tight end class: Stowers, Klein
• 32:59 – Brendan Cece CB as a riser
• 36:53 – North Dakota State sleepers: Cole Payton, Jaxon Lance
• 41:38 – Start of in-depth Eliot Wolf interview
• 43:15 – Wolf on values learned from father Ron
• 44:24 – Changing and simplifying grading scales
• 47:43 – Will Campbell and compensating for outliers
• 50:00 – Wolf on relationship-building with Vrabel
• 54:43 – Deep-dive: QB evaluation (Drake May)
• 58:35 – On balancing current vs. future draft classes
• 66:42 – Favorite and least favorite job responsibilities
• 72:36 – Patriots’ draft room food tradition

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Summary

This episode is an essential listen for draftniks, Patriots fans, and anyone interested in the intersection of scouting tradition, prospects’ athletic traits, and front office evolution. The first half is loaded with actionable combine notes and detailed scouting breakdowns—names, numbers, and traits to watch as the NFL world’s eyes turn to Indy. The second half, a candid interview with Eliot Wolf, offers behind-the-scenes perspective on modern team-building, generational wisdom, analytics, and the realities of life as an NFL exec.

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For further draft coverage, full mocks, and more, McShay encourages listeners to subscribe to The McShay Report newsletter.

Transcript

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Foreign,

[Mike Giardi]

You're looking live at the McShay show from Indianapolis, Indiana, the home of the NFL scouting combine. We've got up to date news for you. Players that we think are going to have their draft stock soar from what they do on the field later this week. And we sat down with Elliot Wolf, the executive vice president of player personnel for the New England Patriots. Talked to him about his super bowl run and kind of his background and what got him to where he is today. And news for you, 59 days until the NFL draft. Mitch, you good?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Couldn't be better.

[Mike Giardi]

Tucker, roll that beat for me. For everyone that was worried, myself included, about mention making it here to Indianapolis, not traveling with Marissa and I, he did it. And that's, that's the first breaking news we have for you. Excited to be here. We're here all week. We've got seven days of shows. We're going to recap it all on Monday when we get back next week. But today is Monday, the first day at the combine. You see the beautiful streets of Indianapolis, construction going on. If you watch the McAfee Show, I'm sure they've talked a lot about how the streets are messed up. All I know is we got a little snow here today, but we didn't get 32 inches like Providence. We didn't get 28 inches like Cohasset, Massachusetts.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Wow.

[Mike Giardi]

Lord only knows what they got up in Derry, New Hampshire. You have.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

My wife will tell me.

[Mike Giardi]

I'm sure Iris will. Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait [e-mail] just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. Let's just get right to it. We've got Elliot Wolf in the back end. Great interview. We literally just finished it up. We're gonna play it for you. Tucker's in the back right now making sure everything's set to go. At the end of this show, we sat down with him. He was kind enough to come over to our hotel and had a great talk with him about, you know, son of Ron Wolfe, 10 years old watching film with his dad inside the inside of Lambeau Field. What kind of got him to where he is today? How did he and Vrabel wind up meshing? I thought that was interesting. Some of the highlights of the job, his least favorite parts of the job, what his spread is good New England spread for draft weekend so we got all that to share today.

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[Mike Giardi]

Let's just dive right into it though. This week is about players getting the opportunity to showcase their athleticism, their explosiveness, their speed, their size, all those sorts of things. Some players are going to choose not to do that, but there are some big name players that already have announced and this is kind of the I don't call it breaking news. I'm not breaking it. But it's been reported this morning that three players that we were hoping would work out are going to work out. Jeremiah Love, top prospect on a lot of teams, boards carrying one of the highest grades, number one prospect on my board right now, although I have between now and April to fix that because I don't know if I can finish a draft with a running back as my number one overall prospect. But Jeremiah Love, star back out of Notre Dame, is going to run the 40 and do all the position drills. Arvell Reese, considered by many teams as the number two or number one prospect on their boards, he's going to work out. And fellow linebacker at Ohio State, Sonny Stiles, and I'll get to him in a little bit, is also expected to work out. So three big name players mensch as we come into the era of players not wanting to work out in small star games, not wanting to come here and perform at the combine and that's their right. But it's exciting to hear that some big name players are going to be working out. Now I do want to say this in advance, like these are players we expect will work out and we think are going to really help their draft value here. Doesn't mean that they're they. You know, we've heard a million stories in the past how players have gone in and said, yeah, I'm going to work out and don't feel right that morning or they talk to their agent and they get talked out of it, whatever it is. These are guys that we think that, that are going to have really big weeks here in Indianapolis. And I'll let you kick it off with one player that you want to start with.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

One of the hottest names I think coming into this week is Georgia offensive tackle Monroe Freeling. And for good reason. Look, I, I've told everyone on the show all year that no one moves like Utah offensive tackle Spencer Feno. I did not lie to you, but I misspoke when I watched Feelings Feelings tape recently. This dude, explosive, easy mover, rangy side to side, all the stuff that you're looking for an offensive tackle. He's going to have 34 plus inch arms. Could be 35 inch arms. I fully expect him to put on a show here. He's already in the first round conversation. I think he could climb after what he does here. Excited to see what Monroe Feeling does.

[Mike Giardi]

And this tackle class is. Is interesting. It's shaping up, right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. One of the interesting things about him is he's a left tackle. It feels like it's the year of the right tackle. All of these talented right tackles in this, in this top group. But Monroe Frayling started at left tackle for Georgia.

[Mike Giardi]

We've spent months now talking about this tackle class and the two names that you hear most if you tune into this show or if you've tuned into any other show is Spencer Fano, who you just talked about from Utah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Mike Giardi]

And Francis Mawinoa from Miami. When I talk to coaches in the league and scouts in the league and general managers in the league, I'm not saying that they have them as the top two guys, but I promise you, they're all asking me about what are you hearing on Freeling.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

And what are you hearing on Blake Miller, your guy? We don't have to have that conversation today, but I've got pages of notes and I'm, you know, I'm writing down stuff and I'm having conversations or typing stuff up and almost always those two names come up. So I think that's interesting and I think the fact that we both have watched his tape now and yeah, he gets off balance and yes, he lunges and there are some play if you want to put together a hit list, like a clip reel of low lights of his. Of his low lights.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yes.

[Mike Giardi]

You got a beautiful one to try to convince your general manager, why not to draft it. But then you put his highlights on and the way he moves and the length and the inexperience is an ideal. But there's also this element of man. If he works out the way we're hearing, he might work out at his. Was he 6 7, 6 7.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

315 is what he's listed at.

[Mike Giardi]

So probably come in at like 6, 6 and 3 quarters. Great 315 range. And if he works out well combined with the, the flashes on or not flashes, the. The upside you see on tape, that's going to be fascinating to watch because I'm telling you there are people in the league that view him and Miller up there near the top with, with Maui Noah and Fano.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay, so I get it with Freeling.

[Mike Giardi]

Fine. Sonny Styles, that's the player I think is going to be the last year is Nick Emanwari who was your. Your guy and he took the combine by storm. Tall, long, like the fastest. He had the best combination of size 40 time and vertical jump in maybe in two decades. Was it or maybe ever. I think it was ever. He broke the record for that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Three.

[Mike Giardi]

Those three things. I'm not saying we're going to have a record broken, but I'm not saying we're not with Sonny Styles. Okay. I think he's going to be the talk of the, of the combine when we leave. When you look at his skill set and everyone talks about Arvel Reese and I get it because there's the edge element to his game. Some people in the league that I'm now I'm like having more advanced conversations. Some people think this guy can rush the quarterback pretty well too. Not saying the Reese's level. So there's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I agree.

[Mike Giardi]

So we're not talking with, with Reese especially and with Sonny Styles it's not just limited to he's an off the ball linebacker. He's a Devin Lloyd.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right. They're not built like those guys either. They're like six four.

[Mike Giardi]

Well that's my point on Sonny. He's six four and a half is what. Is what he's what people think he's going to check in at £243. I went through. I've spent years in talking to analytics people and trying to drill down and we've got some exciting news to break right after the combine. There may be a website that comes out that we may have like every bit of data and we may develop it over the next two years to be essentially an NFL database where you can get everything in and I'm going to get Mensch involved somehow and he'll scream at me about all of this. But my point is I've spent all this time trying to pick the brains of the analytical people in the league. What are the measurables that matter. I'm constantly updating that list and with linebacker you want to hear the four that we've come up with. If you look at what correlates in these, and obviously if you're evaluating players off of these numbers, you're not doing the right job. But as a supplement to the tape,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

you can't ignore it.

[Mike Giardi]

You can't ignore it. We'll talk to Elliot Wolf about how he went from the Green Bay packers where they were admittedly kind of behind on all the analytics and then he went to Cleveland where like maybe too much analytical driven evaluations and have he's found. Found like a sweet spot.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

So with all that said vertical jump, broad jump, bench press weirdly enough has some correlation and the weight of a player. So at £243 and I'm looking back, he at Ohio State apparently has had like an 11 foot broad jump or. Yeah, 11 foot broad jump. Which is absurd. Yes, absurd.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's lower body explosiveness. That's. What's that? That's what you're talking about right there.

[Mike Giardi]

A 40 inch vertical jump. I'm not saying he's going to reach these here at the combine, but that's what it's been stated before. He's like 10% body fat. His miles per hour on the GPS. Meanwhile, this is from the freaks list from our good friend Bruce Feldman at the Athletic. Yeah, they weren't far off. His most Recent one was 22.8 miles per hour. That was from last year. And Jeremiah Smith was 23.5 or no, he was saying yeah, 23.2. Anyway, bottom line between the 40, the vertical jump, the broad jump and all those things and checking in at £243. If he's in that range, which we assume he will be, he's got a chance to be one of the stories here at the combine.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And again, if you have, you have a few minutes to kill. Go go. YouTube is high school basketball highlights. It's those poor kids. I can't imagine that I'm trying to match up with that guy in high

[Mike Giardi]

school and Sonny Styles, like when you add the rush element to it in a year where I think teams are really just looking for the best players. And if you're not at targeting Mendoza1, if you're the Raiders, if you're not targeting an offensive tackle for obvious Need I think, I think teams are much more open in this draft in the top 10 to draft a quote unquote off ball linebacker this week could help pole vault Sonny Styles into that range.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

Who do you got next?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm going to go with another off the ball linebacker with a similar kind of, you know, background or skill set. That's Jake Golday from Cincinnati. He look according to PFF, 320 reps, 320 snaps in the box last year, 251 in the slot and then he had 122 on the edge. This kid's 64240. So we talked about that size. Right now we're talking about the versatility. Played defensive end earlier in his college career and in High School, nine and

[Elliot Wolf]

a half career sacks.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

When I look at that frame 64240 immediately what I'm concerned about is how well does he move in space. Again according to Feldman, he had a 4.24 second shuttle that is not elite but that is very good for the position and it's very good for the frame. And I like the way he moves on in space on tape. Getting back to it a little bit, the added element of being able to rush the passer. This frame, these guys that are 6 4, they're not these 6 2, 230 pound guys who are just going to get swallowed up by offensive tackles. Jake lday is going to be able to play a little bit of a role and how he in rushing the passer and then dropping into coverage. And we talk about all these defenses that are multiple and being able to hide what you want to do and confuse quarterbacks. If you see Jake all day lined up on the edge, you don't know whether he's dropping, whether he's coming. I think he's not going to listen. It's hard to follow up Sonny Styles here as an off the ball linebacker. I don't think he's going to test like that but I do think he's going to run well at that size and I think he's going to look really good during position drills. I'm hopeful that he'll go through some of the pass rush drills. At the end of the linebacker workouts

[Mike Giardi]

too, I get another guy sticking on the defensive side. Right. And this interior defensive line group is not ideal at the top. Right. I think Lee Hunter from Texas Tech made a lot of headway with his Senior bowl performance and the end of the season. When you talk to scouts like the way he finished that season was, was Was hugely helpful to his. His stock, if you will. Kaden McDonald's a player we both like a lot from Ohio State. He's more of a run stuffer with some upside. The most intriguing player into interior defensive line, defensive tackle, if you will, is Peter Woods.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yes.

[Mike Giardi]

We sat there in July and both watched the tape and I think the argument was I was top five, you were top ten. Right. But we're very comfortable. We could have easily agreed on He's a top 15 prospect, could go in the top 10. He doesn't have the year that he expected to have production wise. Neither did TJ Parker, the edge or anyone on Clemson on offensive defensive side of the ball, period. I watched a tape recently of both he and Parker and there's still a lot of great things. There's a lot of like, there's a lot of movement and different things they were trying to do this year and I think they almost work to their own disadvantage at times. Okay. But bottom line, Peter Woods, I think if you polled NFL teams, some would have Hunter number one interior defensive lineman. I don't think anyone would have Caleb Banks from Florida, but I think he's another guy who with a good workout this week could. Could kind of escalate. I think Kaden McDonald would be there. Those would be your four guys, but I don't know how many right at this moment would have Peter woods as the number one interior defensive line.

[Elliot Wolf]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

And if they did, it wouldn't be in the top 20 picks. So we're talking about a guy who's right. Now if you polled everyone in the league, I would guess it would be 25 to 35 is where you would land the range for him. Watch what happens after this week.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You've seen this movie before.

[Mike Giardi]

I've seen this movie before. This is a guy and you want to talk about measurables that matter for interior defensive lineman. 40, bench press, 20, shuttle and weight. Ironically, the weight thing is going to be one that drags him down a little bit.

[Elliot Wolf]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

If you go look at, I just saw recently a picture of him in 2024 versus 2025. He leaned up, which is a good thing. It means he's disciplined, he's doing nutrition, he's conditioning, he's working. But I'd like to see him at or maybe just slightly over 300. I don't know that he'll be. I don't know. We'll see if he's. If he's over 300 and he runs the 40 that I think he's Going to run because he ran a 4 8, 6 apparently last offseason. If he runs in that 49 range at over 300 pounds, I'm told he has a vertical jump of 33 inches, which is outstanding. 34 reps on the bench press, we'll see if he does it here. But 32 is the, is the mark for outstanding. Like any 32 and over is exceptional. You combine all those things in a class that doesn't have a clear cut, number one interior defensive lineman and you go back to that tape and then you watch 2024 and 2025, you put it in perspective. I'm, I'm telling you, when we exit this thing two, three weeks after, there's a real good chance Peter Wood starts to climb back up.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I hear you. I, I agree with you. I think he's going to put on an absolute show and I think it's, it's anticipated, it's, it's kind of surprising that we haven't looked at it that way all along because what had happened with TJ Parker at the Senior bowl, is he what we've been talking about this, what was going on at Clemson, you know what I mean? These great players just were not playing that well. You get T.J. parker away from the situation, maybe the scheme wasn't right for what they were doing. He excels at the Senior bowl and now Peter woods has a chance to do the same thing at the combine. I'm gonna go to another guy. I'm gonna go to Oregon safety Dylan Thieman, y who we think we've, we've talked about. What I want to talk about him is positional, like how is what his versatility is okay, because some people think he's going to be a great nickel. He played almost in primarily in the box for Oregon. But I want you to go back to when he was a freshman at Purdue. And yes, I went back and watched 2023 tape on Dylan Denman and he's playing safety. He's playing high single high safety. Okay? This kid could run in the four threes. He's a 200, 205 pound safety. He could run in the four threes. Fresno State, one of the first games of the year. This kid's playing single high free safety. The, the way he tracks, closes and finishes on this interception is insane to me. I mean he, the way he's able to cover that much ground because of his instincts and because of his speed and then the way he plays the ball, he's going to have a Monster workout. He's going to run really well, I think.

[Mike Giardi]

Don't bury the lead here. I mentioned Sonny Styles is going to steal the show.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

It may be another safety this year in Thienaman.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

I'm told. Yeah, 205, he could run like low four.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

He could have like a 43 inch vertical. Yes. He is going to do things this week that again, no one's doing what Nick Emanwari did last year, but he's going to do things to kind of remind you when we're like viral moments, what the hell just happened? Do we.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Whoa. Right? So if you're just a tape junkie, though, and you're watching his tape, you might say to yourself, this guy's a box safety. You're going to see how he runs here. And then if you go back and look a little bit earlier in his career and you're going to say, this dude can literally do anything in safety. Which is exactly what I said about Nick Imam Warrior, who I know played a lot of box stuff for Seattle and everyone said he was. But still, he's got that kind of talent, that kind of skill set. Again, I expect him to run really well. And then I expect when you watch him on the field and they give him a chance to track and catch the ball, he's going to shine during those drills.

[Mike Giardi]

I'm going to flip over to the offensive side, Denzel Boston, a player we've talked about a lot on this show. Scouts are really. And GMs and evaluators are really all over the board on him. What everyone agrees on is how great he is. Contested catches, He's a power forward. He's physical, like the head, top stuff, guys hanging from him, red zone. He's outstanding. Everyone agrees on that. Okay. What I see in my only weakness in his game, the only area where I have I stutter a little bit and where I start to, like, wonder is I don't love the separation in and out of breaks. Okay, but then I asked myself this question. I've asked myself this question with a lot of bigger receivers, do they even need that? Because late separation is equal to or greater than foot separation in and out of your brakes when you're that big. So he's going to check in between six three and six four, 210 pound range. Okay, here's what I'm told. Don't be surprised if Denzel Boston runs at 4, 4 or 5. Fuck the 4, 5, 2 that everyone's saying. And if that's the case now, you've got a guy who can challenge vertically. Like I see it on tape, but I'm wondering, is it just, just the college corners? Like if he runs in the four fours, man at six, three and three quarters, 212 pounds with his resume and his tape, he's not leapfrogging. I don't think the top three guys in whatever order you want them, I'll go Carnell Tate, Makai Lemon and Jordan Tyson from Ohio State, USC and Arizona State respectively. Okay. But I think it locks in for Denzel Boston. He runs in those four fours and has the workout I'm told he's going to have. I think it locks in. He's the fourth wide receiver and I think it also locks in top 25 and maybe elevates him in the top 20 this year.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You already know how I feel. I think he could leapfrog some of those guys. I really do. And I think if you look at Ted Rowan McMillan last year in Carolina, getting that big bodied guy who can make plays downfield, I just, I, I look at that frame, I think he separates a little bit better than you. I understand what you're saying. You're not going to be that size and separate like a guy who's built more like a.

[Mike Giardi]

Well, when I watch Malachi, when I watch Malachi Fields at a similar size, I see him separating a little bit better on some of the stuff. Chris Brazil, we're in a different page there. That's interesting. Leaner. I just see more lateral stuff from, from fields and like the tempoing of routes and. But I see it with Brazel from Tennessee, Chris Brazil II. I really see it. But he's also £200, you know. Right. So yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know how I feel. I love the player I'm going to go with. My next guy is going to be Iowa center Logan Jones. And he's, he's going to be around 300 pounds. He's going to be around 6 foot 2, smaller guy. He's going to have short arms. So why, why am I high on him? Why do I think he could really shine this week? Let's talk about lower body explosiveness. This is again from Feldman's Freaks Freaks list. This dude has a 36 and a half inch vertical at 300 pounds. He has a 705 pound squat and his 10 yard split is good for a receiver. It's 153. He could put on 151, 53 for a center. And you again, how does this translate to tape? He is, he's very Quick. He's a great zone blocker. That should surprise no one coming out of Iowa. And the other thing I like about him is, yeah, he's shorter and he's smaller, but that, that height kind of helps him because he's got a low center of gravity he can get into. Guys, we're talking about a four year starter. It's an interesting center class because I don't think anyone's really separated themselves and there's not a guy that's like, I don't think there's a first round center in this group. I think people are going to look at Logan Jones and think themselves they got a potential starter there who can overcome some of those size deficiencies because of, I mean, how crazy of an athlete he is. Just put in perspective. We're talking about Feldman's freaks list. This guy a center from Iowa, seventh on that list. Seventh on that list of 101 players that he did in college football.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm intrigued to see that. Yeah. Interior guys that can jump like that. The lower body explosion we saw Gray Zabel last year was a 36 and a half inch vertical jump, you know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

Obviously offensive line, interior offensive linemen, but like there's, there's something to that. All right. I'm, I'm sticking on the offensive side for myself. Eli Stowers, the tight end, I'm really intrigued by, by this guy from Vanderbilt. I like his tape a lot. I think a lot of it is, is based on feel, instincts, understanding, smart player. We talked to our guy, Scott Goldman from, from aiq. Yeah. On the short list of guys he wanted to share his profile with intelligence and some of the things that like spatial awareness and. But then I start to look at like the athletic traits. He's not the biggest cat. Right. He's six. I'm guessing he checks in between six three and six four. Like 603 six, you know, six three and three quarters, something like that. 235. So undersized. But if he works out the way he's supposed to, I'm told He has a 39 inch vertical. I'm told that he was 21.43 miles per hour on his, on the GPS, which is like we saw at the Senior bowl. That would have been the fastest player there. Okay. 113 is what Feldman had in his piece about the broad jump. Okay. And then I look at like 10:3 cone vertical jump and hand span by the way, is the four measurables that matter it up at tight end. So that 39 inch vertical is 37 is considered outstanding. If he gets over 37 that puts him in an elite class.

[Elliot Wolf]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

If his miles per hour is true, that 10 yard split's going to be really good. And then the vertical jump, if his 11, three broad he's going to have a. No, I said the 30. Yeah. The vertical and then the hand span, who knows what that's going to. But I'm just starting to look at this class and there's more tight ends than I can ever remember at a Combat 27 was the number.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yes.

[Mike Giardi]

But what's intriguing is it's Kenyon Siddiq in the first round and then there's like a whole bunch of guys who's going to elevate themselves and that's why I'm putting Stowers on here because I think well you're the tight end guy. Give me three or four other names that you want like Ohio State, Max, Claire, Joe.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's Ohio State.

[Mike Giardi]

Joe Royer from Cincinnati. Yeah. I mean they're Cozil from Houston's gotten a lot of late love after the Senior Bowl. Justin Jolly, I like his tape by the way. I watched a little bit of it. I'm sorry but I think Stowers can become the clear cut number two after this week. I guess that's my whole point. I could see it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I wonder if teams will value him a little bit differently based on the frame. But what I really think is interesting there is. Listen, you don't want to bring up Travis Kelce when you're talking about other tight ends but it did jump to my mind we were talking about that spatial awareness and the rumor has always been that Travis Kelce doesn't run the route that he's supposed to run. He runs the routes where he knows he's going to get open and he has that kind of relationship with Mahomes and understanding. When you can get on the same page and you see this with Brady and you know Edelman obviously played a different position. Welker, those are slot receivers but also Gronk, they knew what they wanted to do against certain looks and if you can get a player like that who can catch the ball like that and do some of the things after the catch I like him after the catch two sours. When you can get on that same page and you have the same kind of. We see everything similarly that's it's tough, it's invaluable because you're expecting as a, as a defense you're expecting you're anticipating certain route combinations to attack the look that you're giving them. You're trying to anticipate that. And when you have a guy that can outthink you and get to these areas like I think Stowers can, especially hearing some of the AIQ stuff from Scott Goldman. It's, that's, that's fascinating.

[Mike Giardi]

Sadiq Stowers and Claire are the top three tight ends in this class. If you were to pull most NFL teams, I think what hasn't been determined and may quite honestly come down to like what are you looking for? Because Claire's a bigger body guy and has different traits than Star wars does, but I could. Yeah, I think that Stowers has an opportunity this week and honestly Claire, even if it's not who tight end two versus tight end three, even if it's like let's solidify a spot in the mid to late second round because I think we're going to have a big gap between tight end one and tight end two. I think this is the opportunity for guys like Claire and Stowers to try to close that gap a little bit.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

Keep an eye on Royer.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The other one name we didn't mention was Dylan Bentley from Utah was a

[Mike Giardi]

guy we talked about. That's your guy.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, yeah, he's a good player. I'm going to go with another tight end. I like to take swings, man. I like to take chances. And this is someone who's flown under the radar I think. And that's, that's Marlon Klein, the tight end from, from Michigan. And it's, it's easy to see why. 38 catches for 364 yards and one touchdown in three years at Michigan. But you look at the quarterback play and you, and you start to think, well, maybe that's part of the problem. That offense hasn't really been since JJ McCarthy left and even when JJ McCarthy was there it was ground and pounds so he didn't really get a chance to shine. Here's why I really like him. First of all, he's, he played in Germany until his junior year of high school. I think he's got a lot left to, to grow and learn and I think he's going to be a good player frame six foot season. Six foot six, 250 pounds. I hope he's on the higher end of 250 pounds. I like to see him a little bit heavier than that. But one note, listen to this from, from the Feldman list Colson level and ran a 6943 cone okay, this kid ran a 689 and he ran a 425 short shuttle.

[Mike Giardi]

I told you, that's number two on the tight end. Measurable that. Measurables that correlate.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

When I watch him on tape, man, he is a threat. He's already a threat down the scene. Whether he releases in line or works out of the slot, this kid does a really good job of widening defenders and creating space over the middle. He does a good job of tracking the ball. He can make big plays and take a hit. This is a guy that I just think is. You look at the. If you look at the production, you might think to yourself, I don't know what they're seeing in this player, but when you start to watch the film and you start to put together with a skill set, he's going to be probably a mid round guy. But I think he could be one of those gems that when you look back you're like, how do we miss on that guy?

[Mike Giardi]

I like that. Going against the grain a little.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, why not?

[Mike Giardi]

My last player, that was, that was five for you, right?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yep, that's five.

[Mike Giardi]

Brendan Cece, Cornerback, South Carolina. Awesome quote from a personnel guy recently. And he explained it, and I'll explain it too because it sounds a little ruthless, but it's actually not. We were talking about the corners and we got to Cece and he said he's like, oh, from the neck down he's the best player, best cornerback in this class. And obviously that raises the lip. And he's like, it's not like, I don't have a problem. Like he's smart enough, he's going to get it. He's just raw, man. He was a starter for a year at NC State. Transfers to South Carolina as a starter, but came out as an underclassman, hasn't developed. There's some focus stuff in coverage. Like where are his eyes in the right place? Is he dialed in on this play? And so if he can pull that all together, this guy's super talented and I want to watch him this week because I'm 6 foot 190 at cornerback. It's all about two things when you're talking about the measurables that matter coming out of here. And you can throw in some of the intelligence stuff because it's really important. You can throw in, you know, some of the change of direction and all that, but the things that are going to get you drafted higher and typically Translate to the NFL for the cornerbacks. 40 yard dash and arm length, right and so when you look at the arm length, right, you want 31 and 3, 8 inches is the last five year average for cornerbacks. 30, 33 inches is that line that you love to get anything over 33 inches. Okay. Mine are not. I don't think we'll have to Tucker, get the tape measure already. So I want to see is this six foot corner to 190, close to 33 or above. And then the 40 is 4, 5, 4, believe it or not, is the five year average. 4, 40 or better is outstanding. I'm told he's going to run in the 4, 3. He's probably mid to high like 437-4-38, have a longer, longer arm and longer wingspan and have a great overall workout. And I think now you start looking at this cornerback class, right? I think we're all locked in on two at the top. And it's Jermad McCoy who's probably physically more talented. His 24 tape is pretty awesome coming out of Tennessee, but didn't play this last year. It's a huge week for him, man. And we're going to probably tomorrow, I think tomorrow probably we'll get to the players who have the most on on the line, like the most at stake and he'll probably be one of them because we want to see where he is health wise and working out and all the numbers. But McCoy and Mansoor Delaine, who's super smart, sticky in coverage, like does all the things you look for at the position, but probably isn't going to run as well as McCoy or CC or some of these other guys. But after those two corners, I think it's a little bit of a race right now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Tennessee's Colton Hood.

[Mike Giardi]

Colton Hood, Avian Terrell. Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then Cece's in that mix.

[Mike Giardi]

He's in that mix, yep. And it may come down to are you playing like a Seattle style defense? Are you looking for longer, you know, or are we looking for a slot? What are we looking for? But I think that this week is an opportunity for Brandon Ceci to come in and really get an edge on some of those other guys because he is, he's longer, he's fast, he's explosive. And if you get the right defensive backs coach and you got the right room, I, I think he's got an opportunity maybe to have the most growth of all these cornerbacks in the NFL.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Agree. It's exactly what I saw on tape. I thought there was times that he just wasn't comfortable with his back to the quarterback. But the talent is obvious.

[Mike Giardi]

Some other names I'm just going to throw out there. I know there's one more too. Kaden Proctor is going to have a big week if he works out the Alabama offensive tackle. Mike Washington, the running back from Arkansas. We saw him at the Senior bowl, we've seen his tape, really good player. But I've been told he's going to like he's going to turn some heads this week. Kenyon Siddiq, who I mentioned he's going to have an awesome like 41 and a half inch vertical last summer, you know, no body fat. He's going to like 255 is what he's bulked up to from 220 in the last two years. He's going to do some special things.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

My guess by the way is I think he had something like six drops according to PFF this year. I bet he he quiet some people about the way he tracks and catches the ball because most of the time it's real natural.

[Mike Giardi]

Then there are two players that are off the Francis, Maui, Noah, I'm told is going to have a really good week too. But North Dakota State is going to have two guys that really improve their stock this week.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's not surprising.

[Mike Giardi]

Cole Payton, who we saw at the Senior bowl, who I have a little bit of a man crush on right now. And I usually do not like southpaw quarterbacks and I really don't like quarterbacks that have like tighter upper bodies and we'll get into all that as we break them down as we get closer to the draft. But I'm watching this guy's tape and like it ain't pretty and he looks like it's a javelin shot put type and it's coming from the left side so it's even more awkward.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Looks weird. Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

We used to call Portnoy growing up, what was the phrase we had? Because everything he was from the left side and he was like, you know, like he just couldn't do. And then he threw funny because he had the shoulder so it kind of reminded me of that and everything was just like, you know. But then I watched the ball placement and like he'd be throwing off tar off platform like guys hanging on him, running this, that the other and it would be like just like banging the strike zone. Man. And super smart kid. He was a three year player. I just did through all this stuff. Three year player there at North Dakota State actually. Four year player. First three years he was like rushing like six hundred yards. Four hundred and fifty. He Was in this package that he would rotate in. And then he finally got the starting job this past year and it was awesome. And then do you know at the Senior bowl he had a broken bone in his thumb. He was the modern day FCS version at the Senior Bowl. John Mateer in his throwing hand. I didn't know that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I had no idea.

[Mike Giardi]

How would you know? Yeah, because he didn't throw the ball like anything was wrong. So I'm told he's going to work out well here. As you would expect as a mobile quarterback. I'm talking to NFL teams. There are a couple now have said, like, we have a, we have a clear vision for this guy package early on goal line, short yardage, like he's going to go do all those little things for us. And also with the threat of being able to boot it out and throw the ball and hopefully we can develop him. I think he's gonna have a big week. He's the name you want to get to know. And then the other one is teammate. You might recognize this last name, Lance. And I've mentioned him before, but Trey, Lance's brother, younger brother, is a wide receiver at North Dakota State. 6 3, 207 pounds. As I'm watching Cole Payton's tape, I'm like, who? I was like, oh, yeah, that's Lance.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

Reverses deep balls. And he had a 40 inch vertical and 10, 10 broad. According to Feldman again.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Mike Giardi]

Hey, Bruce, thanks. We've got a lot of stuff going back.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Super helpful.

[Mike Giardi]

But watch out for him to have a big week. This in a wide receiver class. It's absolutely loaded. All right, that's enough.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I got to say, one guy.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Really bummed the Penn State running back. Nicholas Singleton's not going to be able

[Mike Giardi]

to work out here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Broke his foot at the Senior Bowl. Not going to be able to do it. Not a choice thing. Can't do it. I mean, this was. He did not have a great year. And this is one of those. I thought he had an opportunity to shine and really help himself. He's, you know, at 220 pounds, he's going to run. I think he was going to run the four threes. And then when you see him on the field, he's going to catch the ball well, because that's what he does. And just a bummer that he's not going to be able to do it.

[Mike Giardi]

I agree. It's been a rough 12 months for singleton. I'm excited about this interview. I already told you, like, full transparency on the show, we just taped it right before we came on. And thank you, Stacy James, by the way, who not only takes care of my family going to Patriots games has just been like a wonderful ally through for 25 years of doing this, for making this all happen through Allison Turner, who also is amazing here at the ringer, who helped line up all these GM interviews because I hate texting guys and like, yo, you mind coming on? But Elliott Wolf, everyone knows him as the son of Ron Wolf.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right, right.

[Mike Giardi]

And he absolutely, like as I said before, 10 years old watching tape with your old man sitting in the Lambeau Field to grow up around this, like absolutely an advantage. But he also has absolutely cemented himself as one of the, I don't want to say youngest, but he's not, he's young as one of the smartest, like I think become one of the most well rounded personnel people. And you go back and we were just talking after the interview like what he did in free agency this off season, the moves they made from the big time signing of Milton Williams to like the pieces that they were able to put together, the meshing with Vrabel and having no real history working together.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He got three starters in that class. He got a fourth round starting safety, two guys along the offensive line, two guys who are contributing on offense, and Kyle Williams, a wide receiver and Trevon Henderson the running back. And then I think this kind of flies under the radar. But he got a long snapper and a place kicker. I mean that hit rate is insane.

[Mike Giardi]

And he grew up in that tree under his father. But with John Schneider moving on, winning a Super bowl now, and I told you there's something about those guys, there's a purity. And we grew up around area scouts who have grown into higher, higher positions and general managers and directors of this and that and the other thing. But there's a purity to like, I just want to go watch the college tape to find out what I can unearth.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

And that's if you listen to this interview, you can see that passion is still there. So here we go with Elliot Wolf as we continue our Decision Maker series here at the McShay Show. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. Now that the excitement for bowl season is over, it's time to look ahead mainly to the draft and who's going to make the cut. We're not the only ones looking ahead right now though. Scout, an iconic American off road brand from the 70s is being re envisioned for a new generation with ideas for an all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. By the way, I registered.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm on the list.

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[Mike Giardi]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

How did I not know Rack has Adidas?

[Mike Giardi]

Cause there's always something new. Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Well, we welcome in Elliott Wolf. Really excited to have you with us. Obviously just the backstory and I think hopefully people have explained to you what we're doing here. I'm not going to ask you about your draft picks and what needs you have or what you're doing in the off season. Congratulations on reaching the Super Bowl. Obviously I know that you've had some time to decompress and and look at everything, but with this GM decision Maker series, we really try to focus on kind of what got you here. What are your philosophies? What are your principles? The evolution of evaluating. And for you, I'm sure you. I don't know if you get tired of it, but I'm sure the jumping off point is obviously growing up in the house of a general manager, one of the titans of the profession in Ron Wolf. And so Elliot, I want to start with this. The game has changed so much and we'll get to your evolution, but I really want to know from you when you look back and there's stories about you being 10 years old in Lambeau Field watching tape and just a unique and awesome, awesome background and childhood for you. But when you look back on, on everything you learned from your father and with the packers and, and everything you know, from your past, what are the, like, the foundation pillars for you that you still hold on to today?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I would just say, first of all, thanks for having me, but I would just say, you know, treating people the right way and making sure that everyone's invested in the team and the vision that you have. Being honest without being, you know, too painfully honest and hurtful, but being honest and just as far as talent acquisition is just trusting what you see and believing in it and really, you know, making sure that you're putting in the work and trying to identify the players that are going to help you get there.

[Mike Giardi]

When you like, I know you know John Schneider and you look at the tree and some of the people who have gone on from that Green Bay tree or, you know, the Ron Wolf tree. But I also been talking to some people that the grading scale and the value system players. Can you like our audience? My, my whole purpose of this and our whole purpose of this is to try to kind of peel back the curtain a little bit. Like different teams have different grading scales, different verbiage that they use or, you know, so what is it about your system that you think is important to share that you can share that maybe different differentiates what you guys do versus some other GMs or other departments in the league that you've talked to?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I think the allotment made at the grading scale switch in New England just because they were very successful there with the Pioli Belichick.

[Mike Giardi]

Right.

[Elliot Wolf]

Whoever came up with that scale, really what we've tried to do is simplify that. And there were just too many little, in my opinion, too many little pockets or buckets that it was getting too much into the minutia that maybe a first year area scout obviously isn't as nuanced as Coach Belichick was. So that obviously worked for them. They were tremendously successful with that. But as we had, you know, we had a young scouting staff and I just felt like going back to what I was more familiar with, with the, call it, the Ron Wolf packers scale that a lot of teams are using. And to answer your question, it's really just putting them in buckets and just making sure that you're not losing sight of who the good players are because we, we have so much information now. We get bogged down with, you know, all these little details and, you know, especially as draft season is upon us and, you know, now all of a sudden you're starting to see articles about like, Fernando Mendoza can't play, like, right, okay, guys, come on. And, you know, it's just, it's just like, it's such a draft industry now, which is great. There's a ton of interest in it, which we love, but it's really just kind of sticking to, you know, keeping what's important important, and that's, you know, who the good players are.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I want to talk about Will Campbell because we've talked about him a lot on the show. I'm sure you have no idea about this. I thought that it was high for him at four, and then McShay was taking it to me all year about how good Will Campbell played. And he did. He played really well. And then obviously he didn't end the year he. The way he wanted to. And I guess specifically the way I want to look at it is how do you guys self scout and look at a player like Will Cambo, who. I think I'm being honest. I, I did have concerns about some of the tape and, and the arm length, but showed some things this year. And I don't know how healthy was at the end. How do you self scout and decide whether or not you might need to make a change there?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I mean, we.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Which I think is aggressive, but everyone from Worcester to Haverhill wants to move him to guard at this point. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Elliot Wolf]

We're not moving him yard. He's a young guy that had a tremendous season. You know, I would say three of his four worst games happened to come in the playoffs post injury. And, you know, he was, he was healthy. But I think he'd be the first to tell you that maybe he wasn't able to anchor the same way he had with the knee injury. But as we self scout, I think the important thing is being honest with yourself and honest with your team, not really having an agenda. You know, there's a ton of people that are in my position and probably myself included, guilty of this sometimes is kind of protecting your draft picks. But you have to, you have to get away from that and you have to understand, you know, protecting your draft picks, if that's not the best thing for the team, then you have to do something different.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah.

[Elliot Wolf]

And I think when you look at, you know, a lot of the guys that we drafted in 2024. We have moved on from some of those guys already because it wasn't the best thing for the team to keep them.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So can I guess one more?

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Because we talked to Mickey Loomis from the Saints about outliers, and I think for us, Campbell falls in that category because of the arm length. When you're evaluating a guy like that, why would you. Would you. What did you see in Will and maybe in other players when they maybe don't check a box in terms of height, weight, length, whatever. I'm sure you guys have parameters of kind of what you're looking for. What did you see in Will or what did you see in other players that'll make you say, I want to take a chance on this guy despite maybe this physical flaw?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. I would just say each case is different. You know, in Will's case, it was. He had a lot of major compensating factors for the fact that he didn't have as long arms or big a wingspan as a lot of guys play in the position. He was elite hand use and technique, great feet, ability to recover. And we just felt like if you put on the tape, yeah, you know, there were some losses in college, but that's every college tackle. And there were just enough compensating factors, as well as, you know, the makeup and the person that we felt like we were getting a. Getting a good one, and we still feel that way.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

I want to go back to kind of what put you in this position where you are today.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Mike Giardi]

So you obviously grow up the son of Ron Wolf, and then. And then you wind up at Miami undergrad. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these.

[Elliot Wolf]

That's right. So far.

[Mike Giardi]

And I think you were, like, a volunteer in recruiting for. And it turned out to be the best. Best roster in the history of college football, in most people's opinion, mine included in 2001 at Miami. Then you wind up. It's 14 years in green Bay, rise through the ranks, then Cleveland, assistant gm. Then you get to New England, and it says a senior assistant or senior consultant. Consultant. Okay. And then you're kind of. Everyone knows that you're kind of on track to be. And it's not gm, it's executive vice president of player personnel. Right. But then Mike Vrabel comes in, and. And I even remember personally being like, this is gonna be interesting. Yep. Because Vrabel's not variable for. You know, he's. He's not, like, shy about having his things in the way he wants it. And Everyone who comes in and has that much power wants to bring their guy or have their people. So. So there was this kind of, like, gray period from the outside looking in, kind of, you know, wondering, is it going to mesh, you know, or are you going to be on to the next place or, you know, maybe a year or two, and then we'll. And it's from. Again, from the outside looking in, it seems like you guys very quickly developed this bond and trust. How did all that happen? Share what you're willing to share. Behind the scenes where he developed that trust in you, to develop this relationship where all of a sudden, a year later, you're in the super bowl and now we're off and running. We're just building this thing.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. I mean, just to probably oversimplify it a little bit, but we both just want to win. And, you know, coming off some lean years in Cleveland and New England, you know, from the time that I got there, we had some. Some interesting seasons for various reasons, but, you know, catching each other at the time of just really wanting to win and wanting to build this thing, and I think having the awareness to understand that as long as everyone's pulling in the right direction and, you know, putting the team first, that we have the opportunity to do something special here. And, you know, we, from day one, just kind of clicked on that. And, you know, it was really cool being able to visit with him in the interview. He and I stepped away from Robert and Jonathan Craft for, you know, probably hour, hour and a half, something like that, and just, you know, kind of sat one on one to visit with each other, because I knew him a little bit, like, well enough to say hello, but I had never really, you know, spent a lot of time with them really diving in. And it was really cool from that moment on, because we believe in a lot of the same things, you know, how to treat people, being honest, being respectful, putting the team first, like, building it the right way and building a culture in the building, which obviously, you know, he's got the bigger personality than I have, and I'm good with that.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah, I think.

[Elliot Wolf]

I think that kind of helps. You know, we work well together in that regard. And, you know, I think just kind of not making a big deal out of little things about, like, who's going to be in charge of this, who's going to be in charge of that? Like, we just, you know, we talk it through. We have great communication along with Ryan Cowden, John Stryker, Frank Perino, and some of the other people that, you know, he brought with him that had been with him previously, and it's. It's been a good situation.

[Mike Giardi]

One more. And I want to get back to some of the players, specifically when everyone has a mentor, everyone has, you know, multiple people who really have. Have helped them develop in whatever field or profession they're in. Right. And you. It's. Yours is unique because it's your father, and it was your whole, you know, lifetime basically around the. The Green Bay, the Packer way and all those things. But this game has evolved so much. Right. And I'm sure even your dad would be like. Like, you know, this things are. Are different than when we first started out. And so how have you evolved while keeping those foundation pieces that you talked about? How have you evolved? What is like, whether it's technology, you know, differing. Different spots and different places you've landed, how have they helped shape you? Can you just talk me through kind of your evolution and what you've held on to versus what you've tried to advance or just simply adjust to today's game?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I mean, I think the first. The first part of that is just kind of understanding the areas that you need that you're good at and the areas where you need supplementation and improvement. You know, coming from Green Bay, we had a very small analytics department, and going from there to Cleveland, which probably has the biggest, you know, was an adjustment, and I didn't probably know enough about it at the time to even ask the right questions to even get started so hard. Right. Yeah, that's. And, you know, they're operating on. On some different levels that I'll never get to. Some of those guys in Cleveland, Andrew Healy, I mean, you know, some of the people that are really impressive, but then kind of coming in, coming to New England, where, again, Bill wasn't really, you know, he has a good research department, you know, with Richard Miller and he had Ernie Adams that did a lot of stuff too. So. But, you know, Rich, Richard is still there, and he provides a lot of value as far as some of the, you know, even if it's contract market research or, you know, a study on penalties or, you know, he breaks it down that way. And then. And then we've hired Akenny olakonma from the 49ers and Max mullets from who was with the Dolphins to supplement our analytics department on the coaching and the scouting side. And they're kind of diving into a lot of cool stuff right now. So I would say that that was an area that I was probably at, like, probably behind a lot of my peers at the time, from where I started, at where now I feel like I can talk about it a little bit.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right?

[Mike Giardi]

So we're like, six, seven questions in now, and I'm sure everyone in New England's like, what about Drake May ask? So let's get to Drake. And we've had Mickey Loomis on. We just talked about Tyler Schuck. We've had Howie Roseman on multiple quarterbacks, and Eric DaCosta with Lama, and the list goes on. I'm curious from your perspective, and, I don't know, it fascinates me. Like, take us through that process from maybe the first scouting report you read or the first interaction you had with him all the way up to that moment where you were like, yeah, this is the guy, you know?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. I mean, so I'll take you back even further than that. So, you know, I came up. I was hired by the packers in 04 with Brett Favreau, and, you know, my second year, working full time, we drafted Aaron Rodgers. So I did. I did not understand what real life was like for almost everybody else. We went from one hall of Famer to another hall of Famer pretty seamlessly. And then, you know, and then we go to Cleveland, and we were the first pick in the draft, and so we were able to get a quarterback there. So, you know, then we come to New England, and I think I got hired March 1, and I think Tom Brady signed with the buccaneers on, like, March 12th or something like that. So he heard. He heard I was coming, and he was like, I'm out of here. But so anyway, so, you know, we went through. You know, we had Cam Newton and we drafted Mac Jones, and, you know, it was. It was a period of, you know, Mack had the really good first year, but then it was kind of some bumps and, you know, for various reasons, but, you know, having the opportunity to get a guy, I mean, you know, so I've always been. Even. Even when I was in Green Bay, I've always been very proactive about the quarterback position. Even when, you know, there's a situation, hey, we're not probably drafting a quarterback, you know, until maybe the fifth or sixth round. Like, I would still try to go see live the top guys. I think it's important to see those guys live because you can see things that you can't see on film. You can see them come off the field. Who do they interact with on the sideline? You know, what. What's. Are they talking to their teammates? Are they into the game? Are they just off by themselves with a towel on there? You know, all those things that, you know, because it's, it's the CEO position. And so I had the opportunity. You know, we heard about Drake when he was a freshman. I mean, he was playing really well and hey, this is going to be a guy in a couple years. And I'm, I'm probably like, like a classic hater on all these freshmen. I'm just like, no, we're gonna hate this guy in three years. You know, you watch him on TV and he, you know, air mails a throw and it's kind of not him. Yeah, but everybody, you know, I'm like that, I'm like, naturally skeptical, I guess.

[Mike Giardi]

So you fit in New England.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, so I had the opportunity, I went down. I did not see him playing a game. I saw him practice and it was really impressive. I mean, he's out there just slinging it. I mean, you know, it was, it was a normal in season practice and you know, he's making, I remember, a couple like post throws that were really, really impressive. And then, you know, you talk to people about the guy and you know, everyone's, everyone pushes their players, everyone pushes their quarterback especially. But, you know, there was, there was something a little bit different about Drake because it, it all seemed genuine from every person you talked to. And then, you know, the first time we met him, I think was probably here in Indy. And you know, you get the little 15 minute formal interview where you, you know, basically can ask one question, then the bell rings and you gotta go somewhere else. But then we had the opportunity to come see him again at the, before the pro day. We met with him that morning and, you know, had a film session with them and you know, he's, he's, he's all about the right things. It's all genuine and just the things that you do see on film that, you know, everyone sees the physical talent, but, but the toughness and the competitiveness are just off the charts and, and you know, that's really ultimately what won us over.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I, I wonder because I think this is a dangerous game to play. But do you look ahead at future draft classes? And the reason I'm asking is, is that next year's class everyone seems to think is going to just be a monster class. I mean, a quarterback, wide receiver, a number of positions. Do you look ahead to that and does it affect maybe your approach in the current draft? Not just this situation, but anytime during your career? Are you looking ahead and saying we want to make sure that we have draft capital in that year to make sure we get those players. And it kind of is interesting to me too, because you're picking a lot later than, than you have been.

[Mike Giardi]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean, that's, that's, that comes with a success. You have to pick later. And I'm, I'm just wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think doing that at quarterback makes sense. Like, I think, I think you have to do that at quarterback. I think you have to work ahead and be aware, especially, especially when you don't have one. Like which, which we were in that world for a while. Right. When you do have one, I think, you know, trying to look at other positions and predict who's going to be good and who's going to be sad. Like, I don't, I don't know if that's the right way to do it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's dangerous.

[Elliot Wolf]

We've never really done it that way. You know, I'm sure there's exceptions like Jeremiah Smith, whenever he's coming out, like he's going to be, you know, he's going to be the top one or two picks. Right. Again, depending on the quarterback class. Probably.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And you're hoping you're not in the mix together.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, just as an example. But yeah, I mean, I think, I think understanding, you know, when and where the quarterbacks are, because that, you know, if you guys remember, like, that was a huge storyline in New England when we had the third pick in the draft and it was, you know, this, this team can't support a franchise quarterback, a young rookie quarterback, you know, take the tackle or the wide receiver and pick the quarterback next year. And I didn't understand that, like, we have some real, I mean, generational guys here. The opportunity to get, you know, Drake May versus waiting a year. And I mean, who would it have been? I don't know who it had been.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah, yeah. You just mentioned something that it made me think and I think we hear it all the time. But unless you're in those meetings, I would assume the people who are watching this would be interested. You always hear it. We've got them on the board or we watch tape with Take us through what that's, that's like you got what, maybe it's an hour, two hours, whatever it is, and you've got a quarterback or could be any other position. What, what's that process? Obviously you're trying to figure out how they learn and what their recall is. And those sorts of things. But like, you go in with X amount of plays, you're trying to get certain answers. What's that process like for somebody who

[Elliot Wolf]

doesn't know you're talking about? With a, with a player, one on

[Mike Giardi]

one, you've got an opportunity to watch tape with them or get them on the board.

[Elliot Wolf]

Take us through what again? You know, I, I'm really more, personally, I'm really more interested in how they answer the questions. If they're, you know, being honest, if they're trying to fake their way through it, if they're a little full of shit. As far as the actual X's and O's, you know, we, we rely heavily on the coaching staff for that. Yeah. You know, but I think you can, you know, you can tell if a guy doesn't know if it's man or zone or if a guy right, you know, is. He can't Talk through Cover 3 or whatever the case may be. But really it's just getting a feel for the person and seeing if the information you've gotten from the coaching staff on that, from the college coaching staff on that player matches up with what you're seeing. Usually it does. In the instances that it doesn't, then you have to kind of go back and spend more time with them or do more work.

[Mike Giardi]

I've actually spent a lot of time looking at kind of successful models with quarterbacks. When you land one, then what's the approach? And it seems like the successful model, whether it's, you know, with, with Mahomes or even Josh Allen to a certain degree. Like, go back and look at all. A lot, a lot, not all. The Eagles, for example, the successful model. And it was surprising to me when I went and studied it, like the next year is a major shift to the defensive side. Now the, the asterisk in there is if you're, if you're able to and have the personnel to protect that quarterback, it's really about like play callers protection and playmakers right around, around the quarterback position. But if you, I'm curious, like, is there an emphasis on. And you've been talking to Bill Polian a lot about like the, there's one guy that can, you know, make up for more sins than any other player on an organization. It's a quarterback. And so now he's going to help on that side of the ball, make up for maybe some personnel deficits where we have a salary cap and we, there's only so much we can do. We better get great on the Defensive side, personnel wise, because we don't have maybe someone over there that can. So that with all that theory behind, like, have you looked into or is there some kind of process in your mind that you would like to, in terms of stabilizing around and setting Drake up for the most success, what that formula looks like?

[Elliot Wolf]

I mean, I, again, I think it's different every year and I think, you know, with where we're at as a team, you know, we're, we're still building. Yeah, I will always be building. I mean, you know, every team talks about, you know, they've arrived, but, you know, every, every roster is different every year. So it's always a different, you know, it's a different team from year to year. You know, I think we're still at the point where we're trying to acquire as many good players as we possibly can and whether that happens to be on the defensive side or the offensive side. Look, we're going to, we're going to prioritize protection and playmakers always, but we're also going to prioritize, you know, speed and playmaking on defense as well. So, you know, I don't think there's a. I haven't developed a full formula yet as far as, you know, oh, we went offense in the first round the last two years. We got to go defense. This year just doesn't. I don't, I don't, I don't see that as a priority. Especially now, as you mentioned, that we're picking, you know, 31. You know, we're going to try and pick the best player that's there.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right. Do you, do you look at this class and does it affect. I always hear about teams wanting to fill all their needs in free agency, but do you actually look at the class and say to yourself, we feel really good at the depth at off the ball linebacker, we feel really good about the depth at guard. So maybe in free agency we're going to be more aggressive about targeting a certain position.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I think you have to, I mean, I think you have to be aware of the strengths and deficits of not only the draft but also the free agency class. Right. You know, all the, all the difference making players, save one, are probably getting tagged here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So.

[Elliot Wolf]

Right. You know, we're aware of that and we're, we're going to, you know, we have plans to pivot and, you know, maybe look at some other people that become available.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think, I think people need to look at the way you guys handle the Milton Williams situation. I mean, that's obviously a home run signing a 26 year old guy does that kind of a thing. I mean, the last two Super Bowls has just been incredible in those games. And I want to talk about positional value where I think that traditionally you don't. You would look at more of a traditional edge as that kind of a closer on defense. And obviously Williams is a guy, I mean, you look at the numbers, the analytics of him in the lineup against the run versus out of the lineup and all that. But I really think it's that pass rush ability into. I mean, quarterbacks hate when you take away space in the middle. And I do wonder if you guys are a little bit ahead of the curve there. And do you look at certain positions and say the game's changing? Or maybe this guy loves slot defenders? I mean, he thinks that they're like the newest thing, the versatile defense. But yeah, the hottest thing going.

[Mike Giardi]

You know what I mean?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Is that something you look at that where maybe other teams aren't valuing something that you see you could take advantage of?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that other teams aren't valuing that. I mean, I think they are as well. I. You know, we just, again, Milton was such a unique one. Like, we had the opportunity to get, you know, a UFA who's young, who's still ascending, which. Yeah, there's not many of those. And I think in a typical year somebody like that wouldn't be available. It's just Philadelphia, like, you know, they had too many good players. So now all of a sudden, you know, we have the opportunity to go try to. Try to sign this guy and, you know, fortunately he ended up coming.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Gotcha.

[Mike Giardi]

All right, let's rip through a few of these. Ready? I think, people, there's only 32 of you in the world. It's the, it's at least this country's biggest sport. Right. So people are, I think, fascinated and I don't think there's enough coverage. And what everything you guys go through, what is. You're pulled in so many directions, right? Stuck talking to us here in the combine, you know, but like, what still is your favorite part of the job? And there's no wrong answer. Like, what is. Like, you get two hours, you're in the office or wherever it is and you like, no one's asking you for something. There's not a fire to put out. Like, what is the part where you're like, I get to go do what I love the most?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. I mean, I would say on A regular workday. It's probably just being able to sit in my office and watch college film.

[Mike Giardi]

College still?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, college, you know, pro, pro. Like you got to watch it, you watch it. But you know, yes. The backgrounds of everybody already, you at least have some familiarity with everybody already. College is like new people every year. So that's, I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. But I would just say on a, on a non. Just regular day, it's still, it's still winning. Winning the game, being on the sideline at the end of the game and just seeing the joy of the guys because you know how much they put into it. And I'm just, you know, this year we won a lot and we're hopeful that we can keep that going. But you know, when you end up winning the afc, you know, it's snowing, you're on the field and everyone's jumping around and really the coolest thing for me is just seeing how excited the players are. I've always, when the teams that I've been on been a part of have had some success. I've always, I've always found that when you have a big moment like that, like I find myself being happier for other people than I am maybe for myself. And you know, just, just the, the sheer enthusiasm and joy that, that the players showed after that and the coaches as well after the game was, was pretty special.

[Mike Giardi]

You work a whole career to ascend to this position and there are thousands of people who are in the industry who are. Would love to get to the position that you're in. But with that comes a lot of extras and like I just talked about being tugged in different directions and fires to put out. What's the part? I don't want to say that your least favorite, but what is the part of your job that when you got to this point that you weren't expecting was going to have so much of a, whether it's a time drain or whatever it is that that was not, that's not ideal for you.

[Elliot Wolf]

This year hasn't been too bad with anything. You know, I would say in 2024, handling some of the player discipline stuff was challenging and you're trying your best to keep it consistent while also working with the coaching staff. You know, so like Mike kind of took over most of that this year. So that, that helped a lot. That was good. I would just say, you know, some of the non football things that you have to deal with, I mean it's still, you know, I got in this game to, to Scout. And that's kind of what I always just wanted to do. And so as you ascend, you become, you know, you have more responsibility and you know, people are looking to you for stuff, but really just probably the non football things that, that come up each day.

[Mike Giardi]

We've, we've asked all the GMs who have been kind enough and gracious enough with their time to come on, how big's your final draft board and the number. It's fascinating, I think, to fans out there how that number varies. Like how many players on average or approximately will your final board for the draft be when you go in?

[Elliot Wolf]

Probably about 200. I mean, I've heard some teams keep it like really, really low. Now there's guys that are kind of upside down or we wouldn't consider for various reasons or you know, maybe a guy that's upside down in the second round that we would consider in the seventh round or something like that. So, but we, we try to, we try to make it as realistic as possible because, you know, when the bullets are flying and all of a sudden you think you're going to be able, like you said, oh, it's a, whatever position, it's a good defensive tackle class. We know we're going to be able to get one. And then there's only one left and you better, you know, you have to make a decision. Are you, are you going to try to trade up for him or, you know, just hope he comes to you. And then, you know, so we try to be realistic with, with where we put guys and you know, last year it fell, it fell pretty well for us as far as where we had guys and you know, had a successful draft. You know, don't know if that'll happen this year. Just, just have to try to make the best decisions you can.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So when you say upside down, is that a guy who maybe has like an injury history or character concern?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. Any, any extenuating circumstance flag that, that you have to maybe talk through before you send the name in. Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

You don't have to tell me exactly what the failure is, but a failure that you've had in your career. What did you learn from that?

[Elliot Wolf]

I would say some of the biggest failures as far as drafting players have come when you don't listen to the scouts. When, whether it's you or maybe you and somebody else, the tire ranking kind of go away from what the feet on the ground have said about the guy. Like, hey, you know, I don't trust this guy. Like he's not a football Guy, you know, they've been saying that since December meetings, you know, came in in their first report in September. And, you know, you think the talent can maybe outweigh some of the, you know, some of the things that they said about them. And that's been true, you know, since I got into it in 2004. I've. I've seen it happen. And, you know, we've tried. We've tried to make sure that those things, you know, we got to listen to the scouts because they're the ones that put in the work, and they know these guys better than anyone.

[Mike Giardi]

Can I tell you how many times we've said. And whether it's like the Conrad or the JW hotel here or hotel in Mobile, we've grew up. We grew up with scout area scouts, you know, 25 years and early on, a lot of those guys have now since risen. But the complaints and the frustration of those guys who have been studying these guys, like, on the road, away from their families, know every detail about what they eat for lunch and, you know, and. And then get to these meetings now the coaches get involved and the directors and the, you know, and coming back to the hotel rooms, just like, throwing backpacks on the ground, you know, the frustration. So it's pretty cool to hear that. All right, last one. And this is the most important question we asked, and we're coming off our best answer. I'll be honest. Howie was okay. Eric and Nick were a little. Nick Casserio, a little underwhelming. I'm not afraid to say that. I told that to him. The spread, the draft weekend spread, food wise. Now Mickey Loomis in New Orleans, and they had sushi one day, and, I mean, they actually exceeded expectations. We're New England guys, and we're, you know, we have a little more time on our hands, so we've become a little bit of foodies. What's the spread like? How important is that for you? Who takes care of that? What's the deal?

[Elliot Wolf]

So Ted Harper is in charge of our nutrition, and he. He orders for the. For the first night. It's Davio's.

[Mike Giardi]

Okay.

[Elliot Wolf]

And so we get Davio. So it's a steakhouse steak. It's.

[Mike Giardi]

I was worried when you said the head of nutrition was in charge of this.

[Elliot Wolf]

You know, he's. He has.

[Mike Giardi]

He's.

[Elliot Wolf]

He has some awareness about it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Elliot Wolf]

But we got lobster tails, we got steak, we got. We got karma comes in for sushi.

[Mike Giardi]

Yes.

[Elliot Wolf]

And then there's always some sort of special dessert that he Orders from elsewhere that. That comes in.

[Mike Giardi]

So hopefully the North End or something.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, yeah. And then we have. Will have dinner and then on the, on the nights, you know, on Thursday and Friday we'll have late night snack, which.

[Mike Giardi]

Well, that was always my thing. I haven't done the draft for 20 plus years and being like on TV different from your role, but I have to assume it's the same mental space. Right. Like I want a snack here and there. I gotta take a bathroom break. I want to. And I want some things that I love. But then when it's done, it's like. And I'm starving. Right. So like, you got. The meal is good. It's good to have all that. But like what's after. Right?

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah. So they, they had all kinds of stuff. I mean, there's, there's, there's chips and, you know, drinks and sparkling water, stuff like that all day. But last year they had these soft pretzels, these big soft pretzels that were like dusted with cinnamon and sugar. Oh, and those, those went pretty fast.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I immediately thought. Mustard.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You guys with the sweet stuff.

[Elliot Wolf]

Yeah, it was the sweets. It was, it was a dessert style. So it was good.

[Mike Giardi]

I feel good about this. I, you know, all the other questions are great, but we're finally starting to pick up.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mike Giardi]

Yeah. So hopefully we'll carry this over. Elliot, I really appreciate the time, man. It's good to know you a little bit better and good luck to you.

[Elliot Wolf]

Thank you. All right, thanks.

[Mike Giardi]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Elliot Wolf]

This week, the PGA Tour's best players go Primetime with TGL, presented by SoFi. In doubleheader action, Atlanta Drive takes on both Boston Common Golf and Los Angeles golf club, plus two primetime matchups on Tuesday. Keep up it's golf tune in Monday and Tuesday at 5pm and 9pm Eastern only on ESPN. ESPN2 and the ESPN applied.