Day Five From the Combine: Kenyon Sadiq, Eli Stowers, Dillon Thieneman, and more

Summary

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The McShay Show — Day Five from the Combine: Kenyon Sadiq, Eli Stowers, Dillon Thieneman, and More

Host: Todd McShay (with Daniel Jeremiah and others)
Produced by: The Ringer
Date: February 28, 2026

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Overview

This episode delivers a comprehensive breakdown of Day Two workouts at the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine, spotlighting defensive backs and tight ends who posted historic results. Todd McShay and Daniel Jeremiah review jaw-dropping athletic feats, analyze positional classes, and discuss inside conversations with NFL personnel. Later, they feature an in-depth interview with Chargers GM Joe Ortiz about draft philosophy, building a team, and leadership. The tone is lively, insightful, and laced with industry anecdotes.

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Record-Breaking Tight Ends (Starts ~03:35)

Key Discussion Points

• Kenyon Sadiq and Eli Stowers Steal the Show

  • Oregon’s Kenyon Sadiq and Vanderbilt’s Eli Stowers shattered combine records in the vertical jump and broad jump.
  • Sadiq ran a blazing 4.39 40-yard dash, the fastest ever by a tight end at the Combine.
  • Stowers notched a 45.5" vertical—highest at the combine by any player since 2006.

• Comparisons to Draft History and Player Evolution

  • McShay draws comparisons to Vernon Davis’s fabled combine performance (07:06).
  • Stowers, a former quarterback, has a rare football IQ, spatial awareness, and is touted as a potential hybrid receiver (07:53).

• Competitive Dynamic

  • Sadiq and Stowers pushed each other to ever-improving numbers, going back and forth on individual drills (10:11).
  • Sadiq’s 11’0" broad jump and Stowers’s 11’3" both far exceeded five-year positional averages.

• Concerns and Character Assessments

  • Some scouting worries about Sadiq's attitude as he transitioned from #2 to #1 TE at Oregon, but he responded to criticism and showed improved effort down the stretch (14:19).
  • Both athletes are praised for competitiveness and helping their draft stock by participating (13:56).

Notable Quotes

• On Sadiq’s speed:
  “Kenyon Sadiq hit 23.2 miles per hour at the combine. Gibbs was 199 pounds, Sadiq 241. It's not normal what we're seeing.” (11:53, McShay)
• On Stowers:
  “This guy has unbelievable spatial awareness ... brain, character, leadership, former quarterback, production.” (08:40, McShay)
• On competitiveness at the combine:
  “...do you show up and compete when it matters? And to me, it’s fascinating.” (17:22, Jeremiah)

Timestamps for Major Tight End Segments

• [03:35] — Jumping records: Sadiq (43.5"), Stowers (45.5")
• [05:00] — Stowers’s intelligence and unique skill set
• [10:11] — The 40-yard dash showdown; Sadiq’s 4.39 official
• [14:19] — Sadiq’s growth, motivation, and character

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Tight End Class Overview & Other Standouts (~18:00)

• Max Claire (Ohio State, did not work out), Michael Trigg (length and upside, some off-field questions, skipped workouts), Jaren Canik (conversion LB-TE, great story, day three value), Sam Roush (Stanford, “oatmeal”—the classic blocking TE, but showed surprising explosiveness).

• Jaren Canik’s story as a position-switching, high-character contributor earned praise: “He came into the coach’s office and asked ... how can I contribute? Do you mind if I move over to tight end?” (20:12, McShay)

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Defensive Backs: Safeties & Corners Light Up Indy (~23:12)

Safeties (From 23:12)

• Dillon Thieneman (Oregon):

  • Elite interviews—praised for intelligence and recall.
  • Ran a 4.35 40-yard dash at 201 lbs (27:47).
  • 41" vertical, 10’5" broad; regarded as one of the most complete prospects.

• Traydan Stukes (Arizona):

  • 4.33 40, 38" vertical—could be an early Day 2 pick.

• Bud Clark (TCU):

  • Instincts and production carried over; solid workout.

• Jalen Kilgore (South Carolina):

  • 4.43 40, 37" vertical, 10’10" broad—size and range stand out

• Lorenzo Styles Jr.:

  • Fastest defender at the combine (4.27 40), 39" vertical.
  • Story about rivalry with brother Sonny Styles and their family’s competitive fire. (35:10)

• AJ Halsey (LSU):

  • 4.52 at 215 lbs; “thumper with great ball skills” (36:40, Jeremiah)

Notable Quotes

• On Thieneman:
  “He’s one of the smartest DBs I’ve ever been around.” (28:15, McShay quoting Oregon DC Tosh Lupoi)

• On Lorenzo Styles Jr.:
  “He’s the combine's fastest defender ... and not only does he run the fastest time of the safeties, he's the fastest player to run a 40-yard dash here at the combine so far.” (36:17, McShay)

Timestamps

• [27:13] — Thieneman’s interview, metrics, praise
• [31:03] — Traydan Stukes, Bud Clark, analysis
• [33:43] — Family backstory: Lorenzo Styles Jr. & Sonny Styles

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Corners (From 39:32)

• Chris Johnson (San Diego State):

  • “Damn near flawless in the position drills.” (41:37, McShay)
  • 4.40 40, 10’6” broad, 38” vertical at 193 lbs.
  • Noted for ideal body control and technique.

• Takario Davis (Washington):

  • 6’4”, 33⅛" arms, 81" wingspan, 4.41 40 — rare size/speed combo.
  • “If you can't do something with 6'4", 81-inch wing, and 4.41, I'm not sure what to say to you.” (45:03, McShay)

• Dalen Everett (Georgia):

  • 6’1", nearly 200 lbs, 4.38 40, 37.5” vertical—traits over raw tape.

• D'Angelo Ponds, Avion Terrell:

  • Excellent drills; Ponds had a 43.5” vertical.
  • Many top corners did not run, missing a chance to capitalize on a “fast track.”

Notable Quotes

• On Chris Johnson:
  “He was fluid. He looked sudden. What stood out? Watch his body control ... he’s got it for days.” (41:37, McShay)

• On the depth and value in the draft:
  “A lot of teams in the top 10 would like to move back ... teams that are sitting there in 15 to 32 are kind of thrilled about where they are.” (47:02, McShay)

Timestamps

• [39:32] — D’Angelo Ponds, Dalen Everett standout numbers
• [41:37] — Chris Johnson’s positional drills, technique talk
• [45:03] — Takario Davis’s freakish measurables, role
• [47:52] — Draft depth and strategy

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Trends & Draft Class Takeaways

• Depth from late 1st to 3rd rounds is historically strong (47:02, McShay).
• “Fireable offense” to trade up into the top 15: McShay stresses teams will get equal quality later without losing future picks (49:14).
• CB, S, and TE classes loaded with elite athletes and deep talent.
• Teams seek versatility—players who can flex roles or fill needs due to evolving schemes and injuries.
• Shame noted for players (especially top corners) sitting out combine drills: missed opportunity to show off in a year of crazy times.

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Notable and Entertaining Exchanges

• On medicals at the Combine:
  Descriptions of the “room full of 30 doctors” and how each player’s health is rigorously checked, essential for draft strategy (73:32).
• On Combine hustle:
  “I feel like Men should go through that medical thing just for the show ... we have bad news. It’s not looking good.” (73:57, McShay & team)

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Feature Interview: Chargers GM Joe Ortiz (57:18–90:12)

Key Themes

• Career Path:

  • Ortiz discusses 26 years with the Ravens, ascending through every role, building his process on “the Raven way”—thorough, high-character scouting, and relentless competitiveness.
  • Chose the Chargers for fit, relationship with Jim Harbaugh, and family-like organizational culture (58:09).

• Harbaugh as a Leader:

  • “He’s such an energy giver ... the mind, it’s so creative ... he processes much faster than the normal person.” (60:42, Ortiz)

• Draft Philosophy:

  • Seeks competitiveness and specific traits, even in mid/late-round picks.
  • “Easy to poke holes in guys ... what can they do, and where can they help?” (64:47, Ortiz)

• Building Team Depth:

  • Navigating cap issues and injury waves; likens the roster to a “house you’re always renovating.” (70:19, Ortiz)

• Medical Evaluations:

  • Every medical staff present at the combine, teams assign their own grades, sometimes bring prospects in for additional checks (72:50).

• Justin Herbert and Team Culture:

  • Describes Herbert as “inspiring competitor and leader,” now growing into a “lead by example” presence (76:01).
  • “He doesn’t want to fail you. We can’t fail him.” (76:30, Ortiz)

• Playing against Mahomes/Chiefs:

  • Defense is a weapon, not just building around the QB.

• Ravens’ Scout Room Culture:

  • “You’re getting challenged, you know, we’d sit there and say, if you’re looking around trying to find who the worst scout in the room is and can’t find him, you’ve got a problem.” (67:51, Ortiz)

• Food and Draft Weekend Rituals:

  • Ortiz insists on Maryland crab soup “must-have” at the Chargers’ draft night, alongside Wolfgang Puck-catered fine dining (88:02).

Notable Quotes

• “...But you stay true to the process. Definitely.” (63:46, Ortiz)
• “Those things aren't fun. But it's part of the business.” —on cutting/trading players (83:32, Ortiz)
• “Let’s not miss on the person.” (84:44, Ortiz)

Timestamps

• [58:09] — Why LA, relationship with Harbaugh
• [60:42] — Insights on Harbaugh’s character
• [62:28] — “The Raven way” process
• [67:01] — Competitive scout room at Baltimore
• [70:19] — Building team depth, injuries
• [76:01] — Justin Herbert as leader
• [88:02] — Maryland crab soup and draft rituals

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Memorable/Fun Moments

• McShay’s epic “shrimp cocktail at St. Elmo’s” story — classic combine-induced suffering (02:44).
• Anecdotes about family rivalries, i.e., the Styles brothers' competition, with a cameo from their mom’s sense of humor (35:10).
• The “oatmeal” nickname for Sam Roush and debate on better breakfast foods for NFL blocking TEs (23:08).
• McShay’s tongue-in-cheek aside: “It is a fireable offense if you move into the top 15 and give away a pick for 2027 to do so.” (49:14)

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Conclusion

This episode captures the unprecedented explosiveness and depth of the 2026 combine’s defensive back and tight end classes. Detailed scouting, insider stories, and clear-eyed advice fill the show, making it indispensable listening (or reading!) for draft observers, fans, and aspiring NFL evaluators.

If you want every player assessment, team-building thought, and behind-the-scenes anecdote, don't miss the Full McShay Report.

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Transcript

[Todd McShay]

Either the electronic timers and measurement sticks are broken, or we've got a better NFL draft class on our hands than anyone seems to think. Day two of workouts at the NFL scouting combine with the defensive backs and tight ends are in the books and we're going to review all of it. And just 55 days until the NFL draft. I hesitate to ask. Men. You good?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm a mess, but I'm stoked.

[Todd McShay]

All right, Tucker, Roll that beat. What is going on, man? This is kind of the. The sandwich class, right between. Between Last year's good one and the 2024 great one, and next year's all time class is supposed to be just okay, we a few players get out of here and get ready for 27, right? So why are we breaking records every single time I turn around, man? We're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the allnew Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the waitlist@scout motors.com Just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't know what to tell you, man. I really don't know what to tell you.

[Todd McShay]

It's the fastest defensive line class, the fastest defensive back group, the fastest, most explosive linebacker class. And now we've got a tight end group. We're breaking records, vertical jumps, broad jumps, 40 times. It's been awesome to watch.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I mean, Stanford Steve, Texas, last night was like he was the over under on Stowers was 40 inches. I mean he. I mean, I thought I was like 40 inches, man. That'd be a great number.

[Todd McShay]

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[Joe Ortiz]

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[Todd McShay]

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[Joe Ortiz]

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[Todd McShay]

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[Joe Ortiz]

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[Todd McShay]

All right, let's get into it because there were some. The. The cornerback class was pretty good. A lot of the top guys did not run, but we had some good results and I thought some really cool on the field stuff. It's been a fun week, man. I mean, Makai Lemon is going viral. He's an interesting cat. What do we got there? Oh, yeah, the shrimp cocktail, which fooled me once, you know, Wyman and, and Joe Douglas and Elio and Bernoni and those guys. I didn't know the whole deal. I walked into, into St. Elmo's. St. Elmo's and. And they said, hey, you got to take a scoop. The best cocktail sauce we've ever had. I did it and I wrecked me for like 30 years.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I know it's coming now and it still gets me. It's still that, like there's a second of breath away.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

What also took my breath away was watching Kenyon Siddiq run a 4, 3, 9, 40 yard dash and watching. You know, the coolest part was watching Kenyon Siddiq break the record for the. Was the vertical jump with 43 and a half inches. And then a couple guys later, it's Eli Stowers, the Vanderbilt tight end breaks the record, breaks his record with a 45 and a half.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

45 and a half inches, man, that's insane.

[Todd McShay]

When Sonny Styles Yesterday jumped a 43 and a half, I said I knew this guy was freakish and I knew he was gonna do something special to see Eli Stowers, who I knew was gonna have a great workout. I even ran into his agent group today in the, in the hotel lobby.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

They're.

[Todd McShay]

He's going to do some special stuff. I'm like, I know we've heard like everyone's telling me this.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But I didn't know to this level truly. So let's break it down. Let's start at the top of this tight end group which is just, it's just, just okay. I mean, last year we had two first rounders, right? We had Tyler Warren, surprisingly was the second off the board after Colston Loveland was. Was selected a few picks earlier by the. By the Chicago Bears.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And. And then all of a sudden the first, what, 15 picks. We get two tight ends off the board and. And we saw a bunch of tight ends go this year's group. It's a Kenyon Sadiq, no question about it. Oregon tight end is a first rounder. Eli Stowers is kind of next up. He and Max Claire. Different, different cats. Right. Stowers is talked about, by the way, by NFL people that I've been talking to this week and a little whispers about it. Senior bowl and maybe Like a slot receiver. You flex around like legitimately a slot receiver, like in the receiver room. Okay. Where Max Claire is your prototypical. Purdue, Ohio state, you know, 6, 4 and change, 200. And what did he check in at? Whatever it is, you know, 250 pounds, right around that range and can block in line, but also has some athletic traits and can catch the ball. What I don't think anyone was prepared for was to see these two guys, Sadiq and Stowers work out as well. We knew they would work out. Well, not as well. I want to give some perspective. Okay. Stowers comes in. So just so people understand, they do the. The jumping first, the vertical jump and the broad jump before they do the 40 yard dashes. Okay, so Stowers comes in, as I mentioned, after Sadiq has his. His great. His great 43 1/2 inch vertical jump which was the tight end record at the combine when he did it then. And their names are right back. You know, it's very. Sadiq with an A, Stowers with a T. After the S's, I think Bower

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Sharp had to go in between Bowers

[Todd McShay]

Sharp, that poor son of a gun, man. Imagine being.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Oh, man.

[Todd McShay]

But anyway, so Stowers comes up and he jumps 45 and a half. And if you get to watch the video of it, it's almost like he does this Jordan thing at the very top of his jump board. It's like, now I need one more, you know? And so he hits that. That is a combine record for tight ends and it is the highest vertical jump of any player at the combine since 2006. It's 20 years, bro. That's two decades. And it's a tight end.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know what I mean?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

240 pound man getting up like that.

[Todd McShay]

I told you I was, I was there for the Vernon Davis workout and I thought I'd never see anything like it. And I don't know that I've ever seen a physique. I don't like talking about men's bodies. And sometimes in this, like it becomes the underwear Olympics. And it's like, oh, he's so body beautiful. And it's like it kind of crosses the line sometimes. I'm not going there, but I think we all can recognize when you see a Greek God. And Vernon Davis was a Greek, like

[Daniel Jeremiah]

250 plus too, I think.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it was weird to watch what he was able to do, right? But. But he comes out today. Stowers does. Who's this like f. Tight end and was really Productive. And by the way, let's talk to you about Stowers. Okay. Stowers is a former quarterback who has an unbelievable sense of like getting open for his quarterback, finding soft spots and zones.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right.

[Todd McShay]

He's also the academic Heisman, the Campbell Award winner, one of the smartest cats in the world. Then you and I bring on Scott Goldman from aiq which does the intelligence testing. The only NFL, NFL registered and approved NFL testing group for the. For intelligence. And it's beyond just like, yeah, he's wicked smart, man. No, it's like it's reaction skills and they do kind of explain it as like candy crush and all that. And so when I met with Scott Goldman and Eli's one of his kind of partners and co workers there and we had this long conversation, I said, give me some guys that really stand out that will approve their agents, will approve you using it on our show. And so he came on four names and Arvell Reese was one of them. And the next guy up was Stowers.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

So this guy has unbelievable spatial awareness and can. So. So now we're talking about brain. Kind of the character, the leadership, former quarterback production.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean he's a very productive, highly

[Todd McShay]

productive player in the sec. And then he goes out and works out and, and listen, he's undersized, but it's not like grossly undersized. He's 6036 which means he's almost 6 foot 4. He's just about 240 pounds. He's got 32 and 58 inch arm length, which just to give perspective on that, 33 inch arms is the average for NFL tight ends. So like he's in the range and then he goes and has the 45 and a half inch vertical jump.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And you see the frame. Some guys looks like they're maxed out. He doesn't look like he's maxed out. I mean245 I don't think is out of the question for him.

[Todd McShay]

People were saying, you know, he could be this year's Harold Fannin.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's interesting. I see Evan Ingram and I know he didn't run as well as Evan Ingram.

[Todd McShay]

He's just so much more explosive than fan. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I love Harold Vanit. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Great rookie year. Rookie year.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And it's funny because the time was I think Ingram ran a 4, 4, 2 and Stars ran a 4, 5, 1. I think that's right. So it's. The times don't match up. But man, when I watch him on tape that's I see Evan Ingram when I watch tape.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. But this guy to me is a little bit like the space. I see the spatial awareness and like the getting open. I think it's not just like the traits and the. In the way it moves.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So anyway, Evan Ingram's a great receiver, man. That's what I, that's what I'm seeing. But go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

So then Kenyon Siddiq from Oregon, who's the number one tight end in the class, projected top 20 pick, right? He goes and like. All right, fine. You got me in the vertical by 2 inches. Let's go. The broad jump. I'm gonna do an 11, 11 foot, which is sensational. The average five years on the, the, the broad jumps, just, just so people get some context here is 9ft, 9 inches. He rips off 11ft. Got to feel pretty safe about that one, right? Two players later, Stowers pops up. He goes 11, three. Anything you can do, I can do better. Right? Like insane.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So finally Sadiq gets his moment. We go run the 40 and Sadiq runs a 44 flat unofficial. Stowers runs a 4, 5 1, which is still absurd, right? The average for a 40 yard dash is a 474 by tight ends.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So a 4, 51 is sensational, but it's finally like, there's no catching me. And they both basically run identical times the next time up unofficial. And then it comes out that similar to last night with Sonny Stiles and Arvell reese running the four. What was it, a fourth?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think it was 447. They got to a four.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. 446.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

His number went from a 440- to a-439. And just so people understand that and get some perspective, that is the fastest 40 time at the combine ever run by a tight end.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know what's interesting?

[Todd McShay]

I wanted to give one more thing in context, okay. I just read this. This is insane. Remember Jameer Gibbs?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. Oh, no.

[Todd McShay]

I remember going into Nick Saban's office and then talking to me about like, you know, the miles per hour on this guy is unbelievable. Jameer Gibbs is like, you have no idea how fast he can. He heats it up and like what top speed he can get to in practice. He's hitting numbers. And we've had all these unbelievable wide receivers, you know, the Joneses, all this like the Jerry Judy's and the, and the Rugs and the, and Devonte Smith and all those guys. Gibbs hit 23.2 miles per hour running his 40 yard dash at the combine. Right. Kenyon Sadiq hit 23.2 miles per hour at the combine. You know the difference. Gibbs was 199 pounds, Sadiq 241. It's not normal what we're seeing. And I joked about the fact that maybe, like, the electronic times are off, maybe the measurement sticks are broken, but we all know that's not the case. This is the most tightly run ship you've ever seen. And maybe they'll come back later and someone will start a rumor that some.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm sure you know that's coming. Right?

[Todd McShay]

But the bottom line is these guys are doing. And we haven't even gotten to what the safeties did off of the night we had. Today was like a hangover. I got mentioned bed half the day. The poor guy shouldn't have done this show last night. Everyone's yelling him. Everyone on social media is yelling at me because I. You better take care of Mensch. It wasn't fair what you did to Steve Coughlin's, you know, giving you motivational speeches this morning. Meanwhile, I'm on text back.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I've been so I got a text back back. But though you haven't had me in bed for half the day. I've been in bed half the day. Wording.

[Todd McShay]

Huh? Worried. What wording?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You said that I. You had me in bed for half the day. Well,

[Todd McShay]

whatever. Yeah. Bad wording. If that's what came out of my mouth. It was terrible word.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Terrible wording.

[Todd McShay]

But for a second go.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right. Thank you. First tight end off the board. If he works out here. If he doesn't work out here. Is he the first tight end off the board?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Comes out and still puts on a show. And it's interesting to me that he's probably helped himself. There's probably more teams earlier in the draft now saying, I know he's a tight end. I know, like, there. I think he helped himself a lot, but I love the competitiveness. I love that this dude was going to be the first. And we've seen it again. Arvell Reese, Sonny Styles. Those guys are going early, man. They didn't have to come out here and do that.

[Todd McShay]

Let me tell you a story about Sadiq that I mentioned earlier in the season. People don't want to admit it, and I. And there were scouts that kind of came out of that building were kind of shaking their head like, this guy's so talented. What's going on? It seems like even the people in the building are getting frustrated with Kenya and what, like and they were. And I talked to people who were friends of mine who were on the scouting trail and they're like, yeah, I don't know, it just seems like they're frustrated. And then the, the general sense I got. And there were quotes in there. And I'm not going to give away the exact quotes because it might give away the person who said it was that. Man, we loved the guy when he was the number two tight end. We loved the way he worked, he showed up. But now he's the number one guy. It's not the same. And we're trying to kind of push that, right? And that got to me and I made a comment and then, and then literally there were. There was a letter sent out to all scouts, I guess in the league that would come through Oregon, and people were pissed off. But I noticed within the next like two weeks, like this bark was lit. Right. And it seems like sometimes in life it takes like motivation. It takes maybe like, hey, words getting out that I'm not doing what I need to do. It takes something smacking you in the face to realize, man, I've got so much going for me, I better not blow this, right? And I gotta refocus. And you could see in the second half of the season the like the fire in his game and getting like, finding ways to get down the field, the extended catches, some of the blocks like, and that from that point on, like somewhere in mid October, I want to say he became the threat and the weapon and he's never turned back. And now as you're saying, he comes here and he competes his tail off in the combine. He doesn't need to. There were like nine cornerbacks that needed to work out a hell of a lot more than Kenyan Sadiq tight ends. But yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm saying the cornerbacks earlier in the night, oh, I got. And there were a couple tight ends that like really, why. But they're probably protecting their number and trying to get it right for their pro day. But I mean like there were high ranked guys in the first, second round at cornerback and at safety, but more so at cornerback that needed to work out a lot more than Kenyon Siddiq did. And he came out and he worked. He worked out the way he did and competed like toe for toe with this Eli Stowers guy that turns out to be even more of a physical phenom than we, than we ever thought. So it was a special night for those two guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. You know what's interesting about that? And again I'm going to go back to the Decision Maker series really quickly is that we talked to Dan Morgan about finding out whether a guy is the right kind of guy and the right kind of fit. And I was looking for an interview question. I was looking like, how do you find out an interview? He's like, no, if everything matches up, is he the dog in everything that he does? When you throw in the tape, is he a dog? When he shows up at the combine, is he a dog? And it's that kind of a thing. And you can say whatever you want about, you're going to be this great. You love football, you love the game, and I'm going to show up every day. But do you show up and compete when it matters? And to me, it's fascinating.

[Todd McShay]

It's not dissimilar from life. Like someone walks in the room and you've gotten a lot of information on that person, you're looking to either stamp it right, you have a preconceived notion of what the guy is. And it's not like, it's not, oh, I heard it through my friends or someone, a co worker worked with him somewhere else. That tape don't lie. Right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so Dan Morgan's right. So when he walks in the room, he's looking like, is there something he's going to say that's going to solidify the fact that I think he's. He's kind of. Kind of dogs that he's not, you know, or. Or is he going to see. Have the behavior of what I see on tape? So let's stick with the tight ends for a minute. Honestly, the rest of the group was. It got so overshadowed by these numbers. I thought it was. It was pretty good. It's worth noting that Max Claire from Ohio State, widely regarded as the third tight end in this class, did not work out, but he checked in. I mentioned his numbers before. 6, 4 and 3 8, 246 pounds, but didn't work out here. Michael Trigg's another one of those guys. Might be the most talented cat in this draft of the tight end position, but there's some. There's some stuff that, like, is preventing teams from going all in. But his length, 84 and 3 8, wingspan is wild. It's 6. 6. Oh, almost 6 4, 240 pounds. But he'll have to work out a Baylor. He chose not to work out here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Kind of, you know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, right, right.

[Todd McShay]

Dan Morgan, what were you just talking about?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, if you're that good, just, just

[Todd McShay]

Go out and like, dude, your number's

[Daniel Jeremiah]

gonna be similar there as it is here. Like just go and compete.

[Todd McShay]

Two other guys that I wanted to note, I'm gonna. Jaren Canick, we were first to market on and I feel really good about that. The Oklahoma tight end we were telling the story back in September about this is a young man who played linebacker for three years at Oklahoma. Desperately team guy, wanted to find a way to contribute. Right. I called my guy Nagy after I saw him kind of flash a couple times on tape. And Jim Nagy, who is the former executive director of the Senior Bowl, I worked with him my very first job out of college. We're in the same tiny office with Gary Horton, who's not the smallest man in the world. It was a one man office and three of us were squished in there. So I got to know Jim really well early on. But Jim tells me, man, you love this guy. Metallica, like ripped shirt every day. First guy in loves the game, like will do anything. Special teams, all the little things. He's like, he's undersized but he works. And I think he's going to work out pretty well. But like, we just love him. And he came into the coach's office and asked the coaches like, how can I contribute? Do you mind if I move over to tight end? I'll play special teams, but I'm just not getting a good think about the linebackers they have there. Right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so they're like, okay, we'll give you the shot and if it works out in fall camp, we'll let you stick with it. And all of a sudden he becomes a real productive part of their offense.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so Canik shows up here today and there's kind of some buzz on the Internet and all that. And I thought he worked out really well. He, he is small by tight end standard six two. He's 234. He's got short arms, all that stuff. But he ran a 4, 5, 2. There's a fourth fastest. And they take those two superhumans out of this thing and it would have been the second fastest in the kind of a normal year. Second or third fastest.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And the 36 inch vertical 911 broad, both were very good results. So I was excited to see that from Canik, who's going to be a day three pick. But I think is one of the most interesting, fun stories in this year's draft class. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I think that, look, I have this theory that we know that NFL head coaches are getting younger and I think that coaches are adapting their offenses and defenses to players skill sets. And when you have a guy like this who's played linebacker before and he's got these traits and he's productive and people love him in the locker room, I think that you find a way to use him. I don't think it's the old days where we're like, we're looking for a number two tight end who's going to be a blocking guy. He's going to compliment our number one titan. It's not like that anymore. People are looking for guys that love football. We hear that over and over again. And guys that have traits that can help you.

[Todd McShay]

There's this guy named Sam Roush, right? Oh, here we go, from Stanford. I just like what I see from him. He's 6 foot 6, he's 267 pounds. He's got 10 inch hands, very short arms. Shocking. By the way, I once called him Oatmeal. You know, just like think about a cold winter's day. You come down, you need some nutrients and you're like going out as a lumberjack to cut down wood. Sam Roush is that guy, right? And at the Senior bowl he catches everything with those big mitts and he's running the routes properly and he's tough and he's the best blocking tight end in this entire class. Well, guess what, he's kind of explosive too. Showed out today, 38 and a half inch vertical, third best behind Stowers and Sadiq, who are wide receivers. Let's call it what it is, Stowers and Sadiq. Sadiq is 241, Stowers is 239. Roush is 266, seven, had 38 and a half inch vertical, third best.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Broad jump, 9:11, tied for ninth. You say, well, that's not that great. But look at every single other wide receiver slash tight end before him. It's a really good. Then he runs a four, seven. You're like, oh, guys are running four three, nine. It's average for the tight ends. It's actually slightly above average for the tight ends in the last five years. And you do the weight adjusted at 66267. It's pretty damn good.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. Just might have to stop calling him Oatmeal. I mean, he might be better than oatmeal now.

[Todd McShay]

He might be. He might be maybe like a hungry

[Daniel Jeremiah]

man's breakfast or something like that.

[Todd McShay]

I want to go over to safeties now because the safety, like, honestly I was going to start the show with the, with the safeties, and then the tight ends did what they, they did. I had a, I've had some good conversations here. Had another really good one in this room with a executive today, one on one. Actually, Nick asked the very smart question. Our cameraman, superb, supreme, that maybe should we take the cameras out? And I was like, no, no, we're fine. And he's like, are these on? Because there's like mics and cameras everywhere. And I'm like, no, no, no. I promise. The reason I'm bringing all this up is because we're in Caleb Downs territory. And I'll give you just a quick little glance into some of the conversations I've had and kind of culminated today with a really unique one. Teams are really grappling with, man, we got these edge rushers, right? And Arvell Reese is one of them, by the way. And it's Bailey and it's Reece and it's Bain and it's some other guys, but those guys are the three best in a lot of teams minds. But then we've got these other players at other positions. Caleb Downs, Jeremiah Love, and interestingly enough, Sonny Stiles.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right? Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

In this guy's mind, it was those were the three best players. And I've heard a version of this with some different. So I'm encouraging you to go read the McShay report, right, because we have a full breakdown of everything I heard with that conversation break. It kind of follows into the offensive tackles on sale right now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

On sale. It's on sale at 20% for the next two weeks.

[Todd McShay]

I thought Dan was going to look for the promo to hand to you to read. He said he's reaching for the crave cookies and honestly, I can't. I don't blame him.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think it's 20% for the next two months and then 30% for the next year.

[Todd McShay]

Just Google it. Subscribe. Apparently there's a percentage off and if, like, there's no better time in the year to get it. But I, I, I laid out a bunch of good stuff there. Offensive tackles, cornerbacks, some interesting wide receiver stuff. First time I've been, I now, after several days have been able, like multiple sources. So anything I say, it won't be directly linked to one. So trust me, there's some good stuff in there. And a combine review of all this. But, but I say that because Downs is obviously one of those three guys, right? Downs does not work out here. There is a length deficiency issue that we'll have to get to at some point with Caleb Downs. He checked in at five, eleven and a half, 206 pounds, nine and a half inch hands, all good. Then a 30 and a quarter inch arm length and a 73 and a quarter wingspan. You say Todd, like, what does that mean? Well, the average wingspan for safety is 75 and 5. It's almost 76 and the average arm is 31 and a half. And so he's below both of those numbers as the number one safety. And we're talking about elite. But like, I promise you, everyone in the league is like, I don't care, I don't care. But that's there. Jacoby Thomas is another one who didn't work out. EMW Emmanuel McNeil Warren, the Toledo safety that I love on tape, Playmaker, kind of that versatile chest piece. Checked in. Great size six, three and a half, 200 pounds, 201 pounds. Long arms, long wingspan, all of it. I thought he just had an average workout across the board. He ran a 4, 5, 2. He was 10th best in the vertical jump, but it was solid. The broad jump was solid. Didn't do anything to stand out. That's the end of the negativity in the average. Right. From this point on, it's. Dylan Thienaman may have helped himself as much or more than any other prospect that was already considered a first rounder.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

The Oregon safety, because what he's done this week is beyond what the numbers were in talking to people in the league, GMs, personnel directors, decision makers. This guy's in that top, top tier of the interview stuff, and it's beyond the interview. It's like what they already knew about him, but now they're putting him on the board and they're putting. They're showing clips and his recall, his recognition, his regurgitation of plays, what he saw, like calling it out, they're blown away. He's asked to do a lot of

[Daniel Jeremiah]

different things in college.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It doesn't surprise me.

[Todd McShay]

And you're the one. I just finished up his evaluator. You're the one who said go back and watch the freshman tape.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. And he's probably better in the role that he played at Oregon. I agree with you. I think that I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what you're saying. He's a little bit better close to the line of scrimmage, but the fact is he had to do that too. The fact is that because he has this experience in a couple different schemes and Playing different roles and in different alignments and all of that stuff. It helps you in the long run, that experience. You can't. There's no replacing it.

[Todd McShay]

And so. So he shows up here, the Purdue. Purdue transfer, eight career interceptions, goes to Oregon star in that defense. Tosh Lapoi, the defensive coordinator who' coached a lot of good ones, says the best slot cover corner I've ever had. And it also says he's one of the smartest DBs I've ever been around. Right? So he comes into this week at the combine with that as his backdrop, shows up and is just crushing interviews. Teams are like, oh, man, I'd love to have this guy in our room, right? And then he gets to the field. And Dylan Thieneman ran at 6 foot 201 pounds with good arm length, 31, 3 8, 78 and 8 wingspan. Everything you look for ran the 4th fastest 40 of everyone there. And you say, oh, that's good. It was a four, three five, folks. These safeties were absolutely cooking all night. It was wild to watch. It was like one after another. The third fast was a 4, 3 3. Okay. But he runs a 4, 3 5, the fourth fastest. It's elite. Elite. He is a 41 inch vertical, which is elite. Elite as well. Second best of this group. His 10, 5 broad jump, which is seventh in this group and still really, really good. Then he gets to the. On the field. You know, the gauntlet drill is one of my favorite things. It's like a guilty pleasure. I could watch it as reality TV because the guy's just, I mean, you're running straight line. They've gotten to where you have to run full speed. You're going across the field, 50 plus yards. You catch one, you catch one, and then it's like all hell breaks loose. Because you got these quarterbacks that think they're, you know, trying to be the next, like Joe Montana, Johnny Unitis, and they're ripping it, right? And sometimes they're behind you and over. And so you've got to go full speed running on a line, kind of like a DUI test. You're sober, but it's harder, right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks. And we're going full speed down the line. And this, it's just like, it's just under control. There were some bad balls behind him, and he's plucking everything right. Oh, man. Did he have a night and a week here? Yeah. So you just watch this.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know, someone's gonna get tagged. Every year someone gets tagged in the face with it because they Turn their own.

[Todd McShay]

That's why I like watching.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I know you're sick. You're sick, kid.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So Thienaman was the, was the story. But there are a couple other guys that like I've been that are my guys. Traydon Dukes.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I knew you were going to get to this one.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, look at this list. So Caleb Downs doesn't work out. Emmanuel McNeil does. McNeil, Warren does. EMW. I'm tired of saying that entire name. And Emw's got a ring to it. EMW has a solid, solid, just average workout. But Thienaman blows the doors off the place. Then it's, it's Trey. Dan Stukes from, from Arizona. By the way. Jed Fish. You look at the Arizona and Washington DBs that are in this, in the combine, they put on a show. They're. They're all six, two plus and can work out. So Stukes, if you look here, almost six one, 190 runs a four three three third fastest. Who in what world does the third fastest 40 for a safety equate to four, three, three? It's unbelievable. Vertical jump 38. He had an awesome, awesome week. Right. Bud Clark, next one on my list. Had a really nice day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Very happy for Bud Clark.

[Todd McShay]

He ran a 4, 4 1. Bud Clark. Remember if you were with us at the senior bowl, he and Kyle Lewis, the linebacker. Linebacker, who some people want to say safety, he's an off ball linebacker from Pitt. Were the two most instinctive players, guys making the most plays all week long. And I saw it from the very beginning with him and his position coach at Senior bowl. And so I was like, I hope he comes out and works out as well because you take those instincts with that 6,188 pound frame, the lengthy, like this guy's got a chance to be really, really good.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So now I'm looking at Stukes and saying I don't. That doesn't get out of the second round.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

No.

[Todd McShay]

You see those interceptions, those three interceptions

[Daniel Jeremiah]

are Stukes or Clarks.

[Todd McShay]

I'm talking Stukes first.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

And then, and then Clark with those instincts that you see in the playmaking ability and the versatility. These guys, I don't know that they get out of the second if they do like early third and you're getting a steal.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Clark's jumps 38 inch vertical 107 broad. I mean, yeah, he had a nice day.

[Todd McShay]

So all that happened then. Jalen Kilgore runs a 4437 inch vertical 1010 broad which was the best of or tied for the Best of everyone there. He's a six 1,210 pound safety out of South Carolina. So this safety class is now starting to shape up.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

With Downs being a top five pick potentially emw and Dylan Thieman. That's a war now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Fights on.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I. Yeah, I actually had Tiedeman higher and I don't. I felt like I was in the minority in that. But.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, well, if you did, then, then you can extend it. And then Stooks and Clark. And by the, by the way, Zaki Wheatley, who didn't work out, really good player. AJ Hussey didn't work out, really good player. Jalen Kilgore I just talked about from South Carolina. That's a good group. But then there's this story of the Styles family.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Hold on really quickly. Hulster ran a 4, 5, 2, which I think was a good time for him. He didn't do any of the other stuff, but at 215, he ran a 4, 5, 2. I like his tape. The LSU safety

[Todd McShay]

this. Yeah, I do too. He's a really, really good player. But Lorenzo Styles Jr. Comes up, right? And if anyone watched the combine yesterday is interested in this stuff, and you probably are if you're watching the show, he's the brother of Alex Stiles,

[Joe Ortiz]

who.

[Todd McShay]

Well, mom told us tonight. I'll tell Mrs. Stiles is the, Is the. Is the winner. Forget thienamin and forget her son. Mrs. Stiles was the best interview of the entire week. They go to Mrs. Stiles and she's tweeting away. She's ex. Posting away on her, you know, thumbs. And she's proud, proud mama, right? She tells this story. She tells. They're asking her, you know, tell us about the boys growing up. It must have been a wild house, right? He's like, yeah, well, you know, thank goodness Lorenzo had speed because he was always running away from the trouble. And he's like. And Alex was always starting the trouble and they were like, Alex, you mean Alex, your son Sonny? Like, yeah. Well, how did he become Sonny? He's like, oh, he caused so many problems. We named him after Sonny from the Godfather or from a goodfellas. Oh, no way.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, it's a great story.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Can you imagine having these two kids? And by the way, Lorenzo Styles shows up at six foot and a half, £194, 30. Great. All the measurables you want. He's the combine's fastest defender. Can you imagine going to bed last night? Sonny Styles is the Michael Jordan of the Combine. Sonny Styles took what Nicki Minwari did last year and kind of like scoffed at it. Sonny Styles is the story here. All of a sudden, Arvel Reese is pedestrian, Right? Yeah. Follow me here. So you go to bed and now you're like, my brother is ended. They're competitive, by the way.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He knew. He went to bed last night. Watch, watch this.

[Todd McShay]

Like he, he was the only one. I'll show them. Yeah, I'll show them.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

He may be a top five pick, but there's one fast Styles brother in this house and he comes out and not only does he run the fastest time of the safeties, he's the fastest player to run a 40 yard dash here at the combine so far. And we're already done with all the defensive players and the tight ends.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And Sadiq ran a blazing 4, 3, 9. He ran a 4, 27 official. Unbelievable. And by the way, jumped 39 inches too.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. I think they might stop calling him the brother of Sonny Styles. That might be.

[Todd McShay]

But this can do some things. But this 2026 draft class sucks. There's no players. Let's get to 2027. Anything else in the safeties?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, I think that's good. Again, I like the AJ Halsey number. I think that's really good for him. 4, 5, 2. Because he's a. He's who is the second kind of a unique player. He's kind of a thumper with great ball skills. And so that was the one concern I have for him, was how fast is he going to be? 4, 5, 2 is great.

[Todd McShay]

I'm glad.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I thought, okay, Spears Jennings was the second fastest.

[Todd McShay]

So this is what I wrote. The safeties class, right. 40 and vertical jump are the two with safeties. The two of the top measurements that correlate to success in the NFL. Okay, Elite 40 is a 4, 4, 5 or faster. We had eight guys run that today, including four with sub four four 40s, Stiles, Junior Spears, Jennings from Oklahoma. Jennings from Oklahoma. I remember when I called, when I called Nagy and said, hey, or I text Nagy. I said, I'm thinking Grayson Halton and the Spears. Jennings is two under the radar guys. And he's like. And I was like. But I went with Halton. Halton. And he's like, yeah, great. He's like, Spears Jennings would have been a great, really good one too. Well, he ran a 4, 4. No, he didn't run a 4, 4. What'd he run? He ran four 3, 3, 4, 3, 3. So sub four fours were styles four three two. So we had a four, two seven, a four, three two. And Stukes, as I mentioned before, he ran the third fastest. He was just grinding it out with a four, three three, just getting by. And Thieneman comes in with the fourth fastest at four, three, five. And then there were. There were also, I mentioned eight guys. There were four more guys that ran a four, four, one or faster. Jalen Kilgore, we talked about V.J. payne from Kansas State, my guy Bud Clark from TCU and Dalton Johnson from Arizona, another Jed Fish guy. Then we go to the vertical jump. What's considered elite 39 inches for a tight end is considered elite. Like, you know, lower body explosion. That guy's got something. Genesis smith with a 42 and a half inch was the best. Then Thienaman with his 41. Deshaun Singleton, 39 and a half. Lorenzo Styles. The Stiles family's got some genetics with 39 inches. Mom said that dad used to trick him. They made football fun. They didn't know they were doing football drills as a kid, but they were doing football drills since they were like 3 years old in that house. Doesn't surprise me they all hit or exceeded that mark. And there were three more guys that had 38 inch vertical. Bud Clark, Tray, Dan Stukes and Ahmad Moses. So that class, it's one of the best tight end classes, depth wise and talent we've seen in a while. I really believe it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Safety or tight end?

[Todd McShay]

Did I say tight end?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Safety. Gotcha. There's so many numbers, just so much stuff flying around.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, safety, class. I was talking obviously about the safeties there. Corners, anything jump out to you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

D' Angelo Pond's 43 and a half inch vertical is pretty impressive. Dalen Everett.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Did you see a 438 on tape?

[Todd McShay]

No, I didn't think it was speed deficient. No.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But 438, that's a really good number for him. Oh, but the, the guy I'm obviously going to want to talk about is going into the Senior Bowl. All I could talk about was Chris Johnson from San Diego State, how much I love to tape. And I felt like he just had kind of a down week. It wasn't, it wasn't like the bottom fell out. But you know, I just wanted more for him that week. And ever since that he's been, I feel like he's been climbing back up. Oh, we don't know how fast he is. He runs a 44 today. That's a really good number for him.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think there's a player in this, in the cornerback group that, that

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I,

[Todd McShay]

Takario Davis from Arizona, you could argue had the best workout and all that. But for a player whose tape is that good, would like the solidifying of that with numbers that were actually better. All of it was better for Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson's been one of men's favorite players in this draft going back to like November. Okay, Remember, Chris Johnson's the one who's like, I yell at my daughter Stella about Chris Johnson. I talked to my wife about Chris Johnson. I've like Chris Johnson. And he was. We were talking to Drew Fabianich the Senior bowl and he's like the name Chris Johnson came up and he almost jumped through the screen. He loves Chris Johnson. I like him too, but I'm not allowed to.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Came up in the AIQ conversation too.

[Todd McShay]

Aiq, yes. So he's got all the things, but I didn't. I was hopeful. I thought maybe a 4, 4, 5, you know, hopeful. I would have loved the 445. He 6 foot 193 corner, shows up and runs a 44 flat. Tied for third in an excellent time for his size. He's not one of the undersized guys, right? 10 6, very good broad jump, 38 inch vertical. The thing that stood out to me the most, man outside of the 4 4. He was damn near flawless in the position drills.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's his thing.

[Todd McShay]

Smooth. Honestly, everyone smooth. He was fluid. He looked sudden. You know what stood out? If you really go back and watch and you care about this stuff, watch his body control. Because at the end of the day, if you don't have body control at corner, you can't be sticky. You can't stick to a fast, shifty receiver when he comes out of the top of his tree. Like the brake and the accelerate, you gotta have body control. You gotta be able to be going fast. You know, you gotta be reverting, you gotta be. And you stick with it to be sticky, you gotta have control. And he's got it for days. I think he helped himself a lot. Now what was interesting is top corners, a lot of them didn't run right. And by the way, shame on you because maybe the electronic tape is messed up, maybe the track is fast because these guys are running like record breaking times. And so you had an opportunity like Mansoor Delaney and read the McShay report, Mansoor Delaine is going to be the first cornerback taken, right? But Jermod McCoy, where have you been, bro?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's going on there?

[Todd McShay]

I don't Know, and I've talked to a lot of people in the league who are like, yeah, I don't know. And you know what? I. You know, you want the honest.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I do.

[Todd McShay]

Every single one. I said, well, check out his agent. All right, moving on. Avion Terrell, that's just the honest conversation.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Todd McShay]

It's the same conversation you had with. When you're talking to Drew, certain players at the Senior bowl. And it was the same conversations we're having with Nagy at the Senior Bowl. And so unless you know, your client is not going to run a time, and maybe they come out and they run faster here, because everyone seems to be running fast here this week.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And he hasn't. We haven't seen him do anything athletically competitive in over a year. It's been like 14 months now. But Jermod McCoy doesn't work out. Avian Terrell doesn't. He did the drills, but he did.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Position drills. And looked really good. Looked actually really, really good. Now, sorry, there's a lot that took in today. He looked great in the position drills, but didn't run. D' Angelo Pons didn't run, but he looked great in his drills. And he had that. That vertical, which was sensational. Brandon C. Say didn't run, which is surprising to me. Yeah, he. Don't be surprised if he's the third cornerback you hear called. And honestly, like, if he runs really well at South Carolina, don't be shocked if he's the second. Keith Abney from Arizona State and Keonte Scott from Miami, they all did not run. So that opened the door for Chris Johnson, who you see here on the list is my seventh corner. Mentz would probably have him higher, I'm sure. D' Angelo Pond's my eighth corner. And honestly, I just keep waiting to kind of push him up. But that is the list. All those guys that you see there, outside of Maybe the first eight guys you see there, I think are legit top 50 options. I'm not saying stamp it, but they're options to get off the board in the top 50.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. Igbosa, by the way, your 10th corner there just jumped out to me. The splits on the two. I really want to get him to the pro day. Like, he's one of those guys. There's everyone. There's a handful of players coming out of this that you get a weird kind of a time that doesn't match up. And he ran, I think, a 4, 4 something and then a 4, 5 something. So it would Be interesting to see what he does at the pro day.

[Todd McShay]

Takario Davis, you'll notice, was not on there, but might be trying to work his way into that 10th spot, maybe ahead of of Igbos, because what the good lord only makes a few of these. We talk about this at every position, right? You don't find, tell me this, if arm length and 40 are the two most important traits that I tell you about at cornerback every year, okay? You just don't find many 6 foot 4 corners with 81 inch wingspans with 33 and 3. 8 inch arm length that run a 44 1. So you know what I do if I'm the general manager and I take it and I use a late second round pick on Takario Davis, whose tape has been up and down through his career. He started at Arizona, transferred to Washington, went with Jed. I kind of look at my defensive coordinator coordinator and say, you know what, bud, you figure it out. Because like, if you can't do something with 641-941-inch wing and 4 4, 140, and assuming we're running the right scheme, like he screams Seattle, of course, right? Any variation thereof.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Correct. Yeah, he's got to be in the right place. But it is interesting because I always think about Teddy Rowan McMillan in that Arizona, like they had that really just bad 2024, Arizona did and then these guys follow and obviously Ted Rowan didn't follow, but like, I just feel like that was in 2023. Takario Davis had 15 passes defended. I mean, he had a year and then the wheels kind of came off in 2024 and then he was banged up last year. I always, like, I love these players that you could like, look at something, their situations, what's the story? Is there an injury? Is there a coaching change? Is something else going on? And when they were right, what did they look like? Now, again, this is two years ago and you got to keep that in mind. Or three years ago, whatever you want to say. But in 2023, Takario Davis looked like he was going to be one of the better corners coming out. I mean, he had a year.

[Todd McShay]

I think the trend we're seeing with all of these positions is, and we're going to continue to drill into it and, and again, read the McShay report, Google it. Like, I feel like it's a foundation piece and it'll be interesting to see when you read it what you think of. Like this is actually what's going on in NFL rooms and this is the conversation that's happening and it presents a scenario in which a lot of teams in the top 10 would like to move back. But a lot of teams that are sitting there in 15 to 32 and have early picks in the second round are kind of thrilled about where they are. And because we're starting to see there's more players, there's more players in that like mid first to late first, second and third. Now I think you've watched, if you've watched our GM series, it's not running fifth, sixth and seventh as deep as it normally does.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

So we're going to have a deficiency there with the nil and everything going on. But I think the strength of this draft is when we get whether it's pick 15 or it's 20, somewhere in that range. Now all of a sudden everyone. So it's like Eli Stowers is good, Max Claire is good at tight end, at safety. We just talked. Well, we get three guys in the first, right. But what about this Stukes cat and what about, you know, and there's all these guys in this. We just listed all those guys. I'm like, I don't think they get out of the second. So now I'm going to talk to you about this cornerback position. We know Mansoor Delaney is going to go first and then you're going to have a variation of Jermod McCoy and Avion Terrell, Brandon Cisse from South Carolina, Keonte Scott and Colton Hood is another one who comes out and works out here. The other tight end, the other Tennessee cornerback. And I thought he had a great day. He looks the part of a first round corner.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And on tape he looks the part of like, yeah, he's a later first round corner. But now he runs almost 6 foot 193 pounds. Checks the boxes with his measurables, runs a 4, 4, 4. And he has a 40 and a half inch vertical and a 10, 5 broad jump. And his work, like he just looks the part of a first round. So there's, I feel like we're starting to stack guys. Every time we're done with a position here at the combine, we're stacking these guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Where we're like, yeah, they belong. Or like we didn't have him there. But he's moving up. I think the second round, like pick 20 to 7D. I think teams are going to be like, hold. I don't want to pick in the top 15 necessarily. I'm sure as hell not moving up. And I told you it's a fireable offense. I actually said this to a GM I was talking to today. It is a fireable offense if someone in this draft. So if you're a fan of a team and your general manager, and I was, and I hope to God it doesn't happen, but it's a fireable offense if you, if you move into the top 15 and give away a pick for 20, 27 to do so. Okay, let's get that on the table. But I think we're going to get back to that like late first, second round range. I think teams are going to be like, you know what, I don't need my fifth or six as much as I want to get that guy in the second, you know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I think it, you know, it matches up with what we're seeing that there's, there's some good players in that range. There's some players are going to be

[Todd McShay]

starters in the league because D' Angelo Pons has a 43 and a half inch vertical. Avian Terrell has as looks really good in his drills. Chris Johnson, you just mentioned Takario Davis. Dalen Everett. We should finish with Dalen Everett. Oh, Charles Demings, big physical, nasty corner from Stephen F. Austin at the Senior Bowl. We talked and liked a good week there.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Runs a four four one. What's his, do you have his size? He's a big physical corner. He was like getting in receivers faces four four one unofficial 42. It might have been official six one,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

193 pounds, 32 inch arms, 10 and an eighth inch hands.

[Todd McShay]

And he runs a four four one, has a 42 inch vertical, second best of the cornerbacks and 11 foot broad jump. But then there's Dalen Everett and I know you love what you saw from him.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And, and he's another guy who's six one and change, almost 200 pounds, long arms. And Toriano Pride was the fastest guy of the corners. We should mention he ripped off the fastest at the time. It was the fastest 40 yard dash until the safety started to run and it was a 4, 3 6. The second fastest was Dalen Everett who if you remember, you watch Georgia, right? Dalen Everett was this long physical corner, really good tackler, kind of a Kirby smart guy, unlike Kirby smart former db. And like coaches like the tape was up and down. There was inconsistency. It was a lot of big plays in the biggest moments. And then there were some plays where it's like man is he really a senior? You know and they're like giving but, but the traits are all there. He runs the second fastest 40, as I said, 4, 3, 8, 37 and a half inch vertical 10, 4 brought like, he just had. He had a good workout as well.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Well, a lot of guys helping themselves here, man. It's been a really good couple days. It's been fun.

[Todd McShay]

And apparently these receivers are running tomorrow.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I heard Tate's not doing anything else, but he's running.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What did M. Lemon say? I. I honestly have not.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

I'm.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm dead to the world the last 24 hours. Why is he. Why is he viral?

[Todd McShay]

If I could explain something would be,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

oh, okay, you can't.

[Todd McShay]

And I think it's probably taken a little out. Like, if you. I would like to see the whole thing before, but it's just an interesting cat.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Oh, I had no idea. There's something going on here. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

I did ask a gm. We were talking about the top three receivers, including Lemon, Tate, and Tyson. He was talking about the interviews. I was like, well, because he was being coy. Like, he's kind of. And I'm like, well, rank him. He's like, well, he's like Tayton. He's like, Tate and Tyson were. They were. They were great.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I was like, okay, so that means.

[Todd McShay]

And he's like. He's like. Denzel Boston was. You know, I'm like, so. Okay, so. And then I see this viral thing. So I don't. I haven't heard anything bad about him, but I think that he might just be a little. But, you know, I don't know. We'll see.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Interesting.

[Todd McShay]

But. But to my point, Denzel Boston's running. Malachi Field is running. A lot of these guys are running, and I think it's going to be a wild day, get better.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm starting to turn a corner here. I feel like today was better than yesterday.

[Todd McShay]

Well, today was horrible for you, but right now, you show.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean, that. I feel like, oh, yeah, I was melting last night. But.

[Todd McShay]

We're thrilled to share this interview to. Joe Ortiz has been a friend of ours for 25 years, as he referenced in this video when he says, yeah, we were on the bus together. He literally jumped on the bus with us, going from Mobile to somewhere back in the day. We've known Joe through Joe Ortiz the second year now general manager or third. This will be. This is his third draft for the. For the Chargers with Harbaugh. And honestly, the stories here, the Harbaugh stuff, it's fun. It's really cool to see. It's. As a friend of his for 25 years. Joe's one of those guys where I don't know that he has an enemy, but he's not gonna back down to anything. He's the most respected person across the board of all the people that I love in this industry. Okay. And he's a guy that did it from the ground up. Like, if you were to write a book about, like, the process of going from like, in turn to grinding out as a, like almost like a grad assistant, if you will, to scouting and paying your dues and on the road and doing all the things the right way and getting better at your craft every year so that when you get your shot, what do you say? 20 something years later?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And you'll see in this interview you're ready for it. And you give Jim Harbaugh a call during his national championship run and you say, hey, man, you ready to go do this? And Jim's answer is with you. Yeah, let's go do it. This interview is awesome. I hope you enjoy it too.

[Commercial/Ad voice]

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[Todd McShay]

Right now get up to 20% off select online storage solutions put heavy duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you. The solid impact resistant design prevents cracking and the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find select online shelving and tote storage up to 20% off at the Home Depot. To organize every room in your home from your garage to your attic, visit homedepot.com how doers get more done. Man, we've been looking forward to this one, huh? Joe Ortiz, Chargers GM. Known you for 20 plus years, but I don't want to date ourselves. But going back to the Ravens, obviously with Joe Douglas and the Whitels and feel like kind of extended, extended football family. So that's, it's great to have you here.

[Joe Ortiz]

Great to be here.

[Todd McShay]

Your path is like the traditional right way. When I think about like what you've done and how hard you worked and I can't think of many guys in your position who like really truly did it the right way. You came in under a Hall of Famer and Ozzy Newsom. Right. You earned your stripes, like grinding it out and even towards like your last couple years, couple few years with the Ravens and kind of knowing people there and behind the scenes in the league like you had different opportunities. Right. And then you wind up taking the Chargers job. Let's start here. And then I want to kind of go back to what got you to where you are, but I want to start with, I know you had some opportunities over time, but this is the one you kind of chose. Why was this the right fit for you?

[Joe Ortiz]

Oh, well, I mean one, I had a pre existing relationship with Jim and it was actually fun. Like when I interviewed with the Giants, it was my first GM interview. He was one of the top two guys on my list, you know, and I called him at the time and obviously working with John, you know, the relationship grew with Jim and so he was the guy, one of the guys I wanted to partner up with and that I went in there selling, hey, I think he'd work with me and then had a couple other opportunities and but this one, the quarterback, I knew they, they, they want a gym and it was fun because I got reached out to and knew I was going to have an opportunity to interview and I called him and you know, he was in the middle of a national championship run. Yeah, Michigan. And I just asked him, I said, hey, you know, I know, I know I'm getting an interview and I know they really are interested in you. Would you, would you do it? He's like, with you? Yeah, let's do it. And, and so absolutely. You'd be like, it'd be like the way you guys do things in Baltimore, you know. You know, I was like, 100.

[Todd McShay]

You're actually doing a good impersonation.

[Joe Ortiz]

So but like I'm just like, I'm thinking about the conversation we had in that December night when I was driving home and it was just like, man, this Would be awesome if it works out, you know. And so, you know, he. They hired him on I think Tuesday and I came in on a Friday before AFC title game and interview or Thursday and just felt great. And I just, you know, Hope, man, hope. They offered me the job and just, you know, you got the ownership, the organization, new facility they were building, obviously Justin Herbert and just really felt like family. It was, you know, when I interviewed with them, the initial Zoom, I hung up the Zoom call and I called my wife right away. I was like, this is it. Like, this is the place. Like, it feels like Baltimore. It feels like people have been there for a long time. They appreciate their work organization and you know, that, that type of stability really appealed to me. So, you know, hoping that, you know, I get a shot at it.

[Todd McShay]

I've spent a little bit of time around Jim, you know, covering Michigan games. Did some stuff with. With them there at Michigan and he's like almost a crazy like a fox and like, you know, but I. And I know some of the stories of like the, you know, just like kind of. Right, but there's a genius behind all that, right?

[Joe Ortiz]

Yep. 100.

[Todd McShay]

Peel back the curtain for us a little bit. Like, give us an example or a day to day. Like, what's it like? Because you just, you kind of never know what's happening. But that's also what makes him so unique and special.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah. One, he just, he loves everyone and that, that's genuine. That's real. Like, he's such an energy giver. Like the first thing you. My first day working with him, you just felt the, the energy walking in the room, the excitement, the desire to win. You know, let's do everything we can. But the mind, it's like it, it's so creative and he hears everything and he processes much faster than the normal person and. But it's just, you know, he's always thinking, how can we do things? You know, how do we get better? Are we doing enough? But the whole time, are we. Are we doing it and having fun doing it.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Right?

[Joe Ortiz]

I think that's what, you know, him and I get along so well about it because like, yeah, let's go work hard, but let's go have fun while we're doing it. And, and every day, man, it's. It's a joy to go into work, you know.

[Todd McShay]

So how many years were you with Ozzy?

[Joe Ortiz]

26 years in Baltimore.

[Todd McShay]

And, and so you've got. You've learned from one of the great. And like the tree that's kind of Gone on and blossom from, from that scouting department and so you're. And then how many. 26 years. My gosh. So you were as a young scout and as you're growing and college director moving on, you're always formulating in the back of your mind, like, one day when it's mine, yeah, I'm gonna take all these things and like even Elliott Wolfe talking about Ron Wolf, like, you know, one day if I can get my shot, I'm gonna take all these things from, from my old man. But also like, I wanna. What was that process like when you finally become the head. Head guy and you've got all these principles, you learn from one of the great places in the NFL and. But you know, you want to kind of put your little spin and whatever it is on it and you're dealing, working with Jim. Right, right. So what, what was that like in terms of meshing all those things?

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, you know, I think, you know, obviously in Baltimore, we believed in the process and it was proven and we were consistent with it. So first and foremost, that's what I was bringing. You know, that Ozzie instilled that. We all learned that Eric, when he became gm, he tweaked and he put his little spin on it. And. And what, you just wash the whole time? You know, a 22 year old personnel assistant.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

All the way up to director of player personnel. You, you're getting more opportunities, getting more, you know, responsibilities thrown on you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But you're.

[Joe Ortiz]

The whole time you're learning. And it's. After my first year on the job, someone asked me like, you know, what, what did you learn the most and your first year as a gm? And I learned how much I learned, you know, like, I didn't realize how much I was absorbing because you don't feel like you're in school, you don't feel like you're in class, you're just doing your job. And as involved as Ozzy and Eric had us, you know, you don't realize how much you're pulling down from them and. Right. So then when you get a chance to operate, it's like second nature. Like this is what, this is what you do here and you don't realize how much they're preparing you. And it was really cool. So, yeah, you take the processes that you believe in and then you throw your little spin on it, you know, and. But you stay true to the process. Definitely.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

McShay's gonna kill me. He asked me before these things what I'm gonna ask. And then I always switch it up, so I'm gonna switch it up again.

[Todd McShay]

Well, the other day we're talking to Elliot Wolf, right. And.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Well, I'm not going in this direction,

[Todd McShay]

but yeah, we're talking to Elliot, Right. We're just kind of talking about his background. You watch your 10 years old watch tape and with your old man and then he pops in with his first question. He's like, Will Campbell's arm. Like that. Always thought it's too short.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You act like I've been doing this all.

[Todd McShay]

Like I just had, you know, I had some thoughts

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

more positive.

[Joe Ortiz]

All right, go ahead.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Ronda Gadsden. Yeah, the tight end. Yeah, I watched him in Syracuse and I just couldn't. I just didn't see it. I didn't see the projection. I mean, it felt like Syracuse ran the ball what, five, ten times a game that year. Yeah, I mean, five, yeah, five, ten times a game that year. They were just airing it out. He's running these hitch routes and I'm

[Daniel Jeremiah]

like, he's a talented kid.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Obviously he comes in and makes, you know, carves out a role for you guys immediately. I want to know what you were seeing in that player. And then you guys have had some success with these mid round guys already.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

What are you looking for in a mid round pick? Obviously you're not saying to yourself, I'm going to get a pro Bowler here. What are you looking for in the mid round?

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, I think, you know, with all players you look for that competitiveness and you can see it in different ways. You know, like you talk about og okay, yeah, he didn't, he wasn't an attached. Why? Right, right. But when he was in the slot, how did he block? What type of effort did he give on the safeties, on the backers? You know, like you saw him move his stick his hands and face in there and move his feet now. Okay, yeah, we got to work on technique, we got to work on strength and development. And those are the things when you take a tight end in the sixth round or fifth round, we took Aranda. Like, those are the things that are going to come. But the talent was there and the competitors was there, so. And that goes with a lot of the guys that we've had success with on day three, you know, Tar, he still is another one. You know, you could shoot holes in them. If you watch a poa tape, like, oh, he gave up some touchdowns. But yeah, look how competitive he is. Look how fast and athletic he is. And look at the way he processes and closes on the football. And so it's easy to poke holes in guys. And this is something you learn from Ozzy and Eric was, what can they do, you know, and where can they help? And I think if you look at it from that lens, then you develop their areas where they need improvement.

[Todd McShay]

I just had a flashback, right. Sitting in, like, the Conrad Hotel.

[Commercial/Ad voice]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And having, like, adjacent rooms with Joe Douglas and Andy would come in and. And we were with Kevin Wytle and. And knowing the. Knowing part of the process, knowing how hard the scouts grinded. Right. Probably one of the hardest places to work, I would say, but all in a positive way in the NFL as a young scout. But also pays really well, taken care of, like, family going to be developed. Right. I also could remember them coming in after a long day of meetings and all that and, like, throwing bags on the ground and, like, MF and this because, like. Because the. The passion and some of the debates and the discussions on players, you know. Yeah. And you had mentioned the process, like, sticking with the process. What is it about the Baltimore process? And I like the grading scale and all this, but what is it specifically about that process that has been so successful?

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, I think it's the way we scout, you know, it's the way we evaluated players there. But there's also a competitive environment in that room.

[Todd McShay]

I think that's part of it, right.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, it is part of it. And you mentioned Joe and you mentioned Andy and Kevin and myself and Chad Alexander. Like, you know, Daniel Jeremiah was in. Jeremiah Washburn. You know, go back before that, when I first started. Terry McDonough was there, Ron Marcin, the legend. Like, the legend, you know, Phil Savage was the director of college scouting, and obviously Eric was in there. And you. You look at the guy across from you or next to you, and you're like, I gotta be as good as him. I gotta be better than him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

So, like, you know, so you just. You're so.

[Todd McShay]

And he's pretty good.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, he's really good. So what do I gotta do, do to get better? Well, I got to be more detailed in my reports. I got to know everything about the player because, you know, you're getting challenged, you're going to be challenged, you know, and you don't. You know, we. We'd sit there and say, hey, you know, if you're looking around trying to figure out who the worst scout in the room is and you can't find him, you got a problem. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

So, like. But it was that type of competitiveness in there. But it was also fun. And it's just sticking to the. The script, the calendar, you know, like, hey, this is how we're going to do it. And there's just a way, you know, we're going to look for high character guys, obviously, big, fast, explosive, smart and instinctive players. But, you know, they got to be wired the right way, fit the Raven culture. And that's one of the things I carried forward to Los Angeles is like, we're looking for a specific type of player, and they have to be wired right and fit our culture. And you just trust it, you evaluate it. You go through the college in terms of evaluating colleges. You go through the college season, you know, you have your draft board, you said it in February. You come to the combine, you involve the coaches after that, and. But you just trust the grades and trust the evaluations and don't hear the noise, you know?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Trust what your eyes are seeing.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You've had.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

I mean, you guys, you're close. It feels like you're close.

[Commercial/Ad voice]

Yeah.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

And when you watch that team the way you watch your team, the way at end of the year, it just felt like the injuries caught up.

[Joe Ortiz]

Right.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You don't. You only have a, a limited number of resources. Like, it'd be great if you can go out and sign all these guys to make sure you're good. How do you address that with the injuries and addressing depth and making sure that you're, you're. You're good all around, but making sure you're. You're good in those spots that maybe you've had some injuries in the past.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, yeah. It's funny because our first year, I think we played nine different safeties and, or. And in every corner that was on the roster. And then we were signing like we got decimated. The secondary.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

And. And so this year it's like, okay, let's throw a little more into the secondary and then it gets the O line.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, and we. But what you. When we first got there, you know, depth. Building depth was, you know, 1. We were 50 million over the cap, so we had no money to spend. We had to make hard decisions on some players, which was difficult, and we made them. And we just were literally just shopping at low budget, you know, free agency. And the goal was just to get as many quality vets in there that we believed in. Certainly maybe a lot of them were undervalued and they produced for us, but get numbers, build the depth of the team up and then can, you know, Hit the draft, have some success in the draft, and then do it again next year. And so our goal was to really build up the. Of depth, and I think we did a good job of that each year. The roster got better positionally, and. And that's the goal every year, you know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

And so that doesn't stop, you know, I think that's one thing I learned. You always. It's like a house that you're renovating always, you know, good foundation you got. Everything's there. The. The supports are there, you know, and then just. You keep changing the rooms, you know, but you're always trying to upgrade each room and maybe working on two rooms at once, you know, but, you know, you can't ignore any position.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You want to. You know, certainly we were beat up on the O line this year.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

And running back, well, you know, some of our linemen are coming back healthy. I think we'll be healthier in the backfield this year, but you don't want to focus all your attention there and let something else fall.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

I mean, the organization's already. I mean, offensive tackle, the organization's already invested a lot there. So if you're throwing more and more resources at that. I just think it's interesting how much

[Todd McShay]

time do you just got me thinking, because honestly, some of the injury stuff way predated you with the Chargers. And like, you know, you hear nonsense about the 49ers and some of that. But. But how much time is spent? Like, do you exhaust all these things to try to figure out, like, are there things that we can do to try to prevent, like, what goes into the medical. Yeah, all that stuff.

[Joe Ortiz]

Well, we got a great medical team in Los Angeles, and the reality of it is sometimes injuries can be. Okay, we have a rash of soft tissue injuries. Or what are we doing is our nutrition. Yeah, we're not hydrating enough. Or. Or we're on our feet too much. Are we running too much? You know, you look at the GPS and yep, we got too many yards. And, you know, in the. Over the week of practice, people think

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

you just draft, right.

[Joe Ortiz]

So you can assess that. But the reality of it is this year, they were like, injuries. They were. They. It wasn't soft. Soft tissue stuff. If you got guys with, you know, injured in their legs, whether they're being fallen on or kicked.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, that's. It's kind of like flukish, you know, and so it just. You chalk that up to bad luck, you know, and unfortunately. But, you know, it's More structural.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, so. But I think you pay attention. You know, rash of injuries come up. What are we doing? Are we.

[Todd McShay]

Are we.

[Joe Ortiz]

Do we need to scale it back some a little bit, you know, or is the diet, the intake, what the players are taking in? Are they getting enough nutrition? You know, and. Yeah, and certainly hydration, if we're on the topic.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

So you're at the combine, you get a medical report on every player. These guys go through a. Oh, yeah. Very intense physical. For lack of a better way of saying it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Do you.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

When you have a certain number of players that you go back with your. Do you have your medical staff look at specifically, or do you just trust what you get from the combine?

[Joe Ortiz]

Well, so our staff is here. Everyone's staff is here. Yeah. So the doctor, you know, I don't know the exact way it's done now. It's a little. It's changed a little bit. But they'll have the doctor look at basically each body part and, you know, and then our doctors will look at the imaging and they're here, and they'll bring the players in and talk about some of the injuries or to present it. But our doctors look at the imaging as well, and they'll put a medical grade on that player. And so it's our grade. And, you know, if there's some questions afterwards, we may bring that player back to Los Angeles to see, you know, get another look at it. We want to take another look at it.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

So does every team have the medical staff here?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So there's.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

There's imagining a room full of 30 doctors.

[Joe Ortiz]

There's a bunch of different rooms. And you. You actually put, like. There's like a. I don't. You know, there's a certain body part in each room. They cover Gen Med here, they cover lower body here, you know, and so you have your doctors, you know, no messing around.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I feel like men should go through that medical thing just for, like, the show. Yeah, right.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You know, they'd be like, we have bad news. It's not looking good.

[Todd McShay]

I don't care about the results. I just kind of wanted. I didn't want a camera to follow you having, like, how invasive that must be. I think you're like, I don't know, maybe seventh, eighth, ninth. General manager. We've. We've sat down and done this with. I was just kind of counting through my. I think just about every one of them had drafted and relatively recently their quarterback.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You obviously walk into a situation, which is rare, where you have a Superstar quarterback.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And now you have. Coming off this year with the injuries, you feel like you've got a roster that can legitimately. You can make a run. Just keep with the process.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Is there any pressure you start to feel? And I'm just like, being on, like, this guy is so good. And we're like, we got to make sure. Or he adjusts. I'm just curious, like, personally, like, how, you know, how in Jim.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah. I wouldn't call it pressure. It's just desire, competitiveness. Like, we want to win, you know, and we obviously, we all have the same goal. Win the Super Bowl. And yes, it's unique coming in and having Justin Herbert as your starting point quarterback, not having to fix that spot. Like, you know, and that I. I don't overlook that, you know, it. I came into a unique opportunity and one that's not afforded to a lot of new GMs. And. But I look at. It's my responsibility. It's our responsibility to make the team as good as we can to support Justin and give him the chance, because there's no doubt. And he's a playoff quarterback every year he steps up on the field. And so our goal is, yeah, get there every year, but get. Provide him with the team that can really make the run and win it all.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah, I mean, I think he's an MVP guy. Like, I think he. He's down.

[Joe Ortiz]

Listen, I'm biased, but, yeah, what he. What he did for us last year, you know, it just is such a rare competitor, such a inspiring competitor and leader. Like, just. He's out there, you know, I feel

[Todd McShay]

he's grown into that too. Like. Like, it was always there. But I think he's like, from. Because I met with him and did a couple of games in college and he. Not introverted at all, but, like, wasn't attack dog, you know, And I feel like I've seen in the last couple of years, he's really, like, blossoming in that. Maybe it's just me.

[Joe Ortiz]

So competitive. And he has such a desire to succeed for the organization.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

For everyone around him. And he's so appreciative of everyone around him and says, like, he doesn't want to fail you. We can't fail him. You know? So, like, it's. It's a circle of everyone trying to.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Help each other. And he. And he kind of leads that.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

And him.

[Joe Ortiz]

Guys like him and Derwin and Khalil, it's just like, you just watch those guys, and they're the hardest workers every day. Like, in practice when we're in special teams, Justin's over there and side field running gassers, like 50 yard gassers just for 15 minutes, you know, just because he's gonna outwork everyone. So it's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It.

[Joe Ortiz]

He's.

[Todd McShay]

That's awesome.

[Joe Ortiz]

How do you not.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Just do everything you can to.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Support those guys.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You know what's, what's interesting about this, I'm thinking this and I hear you both right, but at the same time, you got to play this guy called Patrick Mahomes twice a year, every year, and you got to win your division first. So it's, that's that balance, right. You're gonna have to build around Herbert. You better have a defense that can compete with.

[Joe Ortiz]

Right.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

With that guy too.

[Joe Ortiz]

And that's like, that's how you help your quarterback too, right? Is it okay? Give them a bunch of weapons. Well, defense is a weapon because they're getting the ball back.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you're speaking. I've done so many studies on this man.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Like, he thinks that you get quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

You better, you better find a defense gets him that he can make up for a couple of sins on the offensive side.

[Joe Ortiz]

But yeah, quarterback that can win the game on the last drive. Make sure you can win the game on the last, last drive. Right? Yeah. You know, so. But yeah, no, like it's, it's. It's a great division. Are you kidding me? Like, yeah, and the cool thing is coming from Baltimore. Well, we got Pittsburgh, you know, we got Cincinnati, you know, Cleveland's had some good years, like murders.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Really.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You had to work to win the division. That's how you want to get there. You want to.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You want to earn it. And so that's what we're trying to do.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

You got to go win in Denver. You got to go in Casey. That's, that's no joke, man.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah. And the Raiders, they're coming back, you know, so. Yeah, it's going to be a fun division.

[Todd McShay]

I've got five questions I ask everybody, but I want to, I want to. I've got to ask. Like, I actually spent. I probably did like 20 games from Michigan for some reason on the sideline watching Jim with his quarterback, like punching him before playing all the crazy. And I, I'll never forget watching him like one of the first times they caught. Like he went to like go do the armor thing on Justin. He like kind of didn't know what was going on. You know, there's gotta be. Give us one story or just something between those two Interacting. Because Jim is like, unless you've been around him, there's nobody like him. And, you know, anything between those two that you've seen is just.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah. So, like, again, like, Jim, he's. He's super competitive, Right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

And the one that stands out in my head with them is Jim likes to play catch. Like, catch the ball every pregame. And this is on. There's video out there of this. I think it's. Yeah, it's just. It was just so.

[Todd McShay]

The.

[Joe Ortiz]

The day it happened was just so funny because, like, Jim was having a bad. Not a bad day, but he just wasn't having a perfect day catching the ball. And he was just getting. Justin was like, piping him. Like, you know, I think he started taking some off because I was struggling, you know, but he's like, you know, like, Jim's like, you know, come on, you know, don't let up. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's really important to him. It's not. Some people think it's like an act,

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

like, oh, the compete level is different.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's really important that he goes out there and catches the ball well and put.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, my first year in the league, Jim was our front quarterback in Baltimore.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Joe Ortiz]

My very first year in Baltimore.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I didn't know that. Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

And I had to, like, you know, back then, you didn't have a lot of assistants and managers, like, assistant managers. So him, he'd warm up practice and like, pepper my hands. They didn't give us gloves to catch the ball then, so my hands would be all red and like, feel, like swollen. But. But there was like, he broke his hand in game and just, you know, kept on playing.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he's not.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

There's. There's no. Like, he's not coming out of the game.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Unless the bone stick. Unless they take you off the field, carry you off the field. That's just. That's his mindset, man. It just kind of just trickles down through the whole organization.

[Todd McShay]

All right, let's run through these questions.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I think we have a sense because we know kind of the. The Raven way and what you grew up in, but how big is your final board? You get to draft weekend and that's it right in front of you. Typically, on average, give us a ballpark.

[Joe Ortiz]

I'd say it's gotten bigger over the years. You know, just. I think you just. You pour more time into more players, but you're probably talking about truly draftable candidates. Probably 180 to around 180, 190 yeah. Somewhere in there. And, you know, you want to. You shoot for, like, you shoot for 150. That's your goal, your top 150.

[Todd McShay]

It's hard to say, but.

[Joe Ortiz]

But then you get to 150, you're like, okay, yeah, you know, this guy would be worth taking in the sixth round, you know, and so it probably gets. It goes from 150 to about 170, 180, you know, just depending on the

[Todd McShay]

year you finally get to this. This position. 20, 24 so far, being the head guy, one of 32 in the league, the country's most popular sport. What's your favorite part still about this job for you?

[Joe Ortiz]

Just being part of a team. Like, just the relationships in the building.

[Todd McShay]

Like, yeah,

[Joe Ortiz]

the job, the title changed, responsibilities changed. But when I got the job, everyone said, don't change who you are. Yeah, I'm not. They hired me. So what I love is the relationships and the competitive. You know, the competitiveness is what you love, but, like, the job itself is just your ability to just lead people, lead the process, but just develop relationships and. And help others, you know?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So we got a good gig, but the. The winning and like, that team part is.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

It's a little different.

[Todd McShay]

It's a hard part on the outside looking in, no one again, sitting in the hotel, and guys coming in from scouting meeting, like, I know what. It's what I don't have to do, which I. I don't begrudge. But that. That part's hard. All right, so now you get the hedge. I mean, you kind of touched on it before, but of all the things you have to do now as a general manager, what's the least favorite or the part that you just would rather be spending your time on something else besides. What?

[Joe Ortiz]

Well, you know, cutting guys is never fun. You know, that's. That. And I've done that in the past, but I still like to do it as a general manager. I like to talk to them, but that's. That's not. That's my least favorite part.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, moving on from a player, whether it's cutting them, trading them. You know, we traded a low E this year.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

And that was truly the hardest conversations I've Conversation I've ever had with a player.

[Todd McShay]

Because why that one? He's.

[Joe Ortiz]

Because he's such a. A fantastic player, was a fantastic teammate, person, just did everything. Everything. And so. But, you know, it was an opportunity for us to add Adafe and where we. We needed pass rush and we had depth at Safety. But you're telling a guy that, hey, you know, it's not that I don't want you, it's just I need somebody more than you. And that. That was. And. And you're talking about a great teammate and member of the organization. Organizations.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Those. Those things aren't fun, but it's part of the business.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

So.

[Todd McShay]

All right. Tell me about a time that you failed at something important and what you learned from that. Geez, I kind of throw that on people, and I feel like I should be talking. That's the heavy. I know it is the heaviest one. I don't want to, like, forewarn. I'm just gonna talk now so you can kind of think through it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But I do feel like I drop it, and then there's this weird silence. And there should be. And I appreciate people. Every single person is, like, sat there and thought, and so we're buying you some more time.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, I'd say, honestly, with failings as a scout, as an evaluator, it's your. It's important for you to know everything about the players and not just the eval. Right. But just the person. And there's been time where I didn't know the guy well enough, and. And there's been times where we've taken that player, and it just, you know, a lack of knowing everything affected, you know, the decision we took him, and he. The warts came through. So it's. I think that's part of it. And that's how the process in Baltimore has grown so well. It's just like. Know everything about the guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

And so we, you know, in Baltimore, and Eric put us in. Into a. A bunch of committees and. And we kind of evolved and how we look at players makeup and background and just football character and their fit. And, you know, I'd say that's one of the areas that really helped me, like, hey, let's. Let's not. We can miss on the player. We can miss on the table. Right. We can. Let's not miss on the person. And so that's probably an area, you know, where I've failed. I've missed on some play. There's been plenty of players in 28 years, you know, that's happened on players we didn't pick, you know, but you saw. Well, gosh, he. You know, I didn't realize that about him or I didn't. I didn't know it was that much of a concern. And so I just always keep asking. Always keep.

[Todd McShay]

Probably guides you now as A gm. Like we are human.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And one scout can miss something or maybe doesn't have the right, the relationship with the right person.

[Joe Ortiz]

Sure.

[Todd McShay]

And so like a checks and balances to make sure. Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

And that's, that's the hard part. Like, you talk about the relationships like, you know, scouts, it's a relationship business because we're going into colleges and we're asking them about players. Well, what do the colleges want? They want their players to go as high as possible because it reflects well on them. And. But you got to know, you got to get to the bottom of those guys and it's about building relationships. And, you know, that's, that's something they did very well in Baltimore and it's what we're doing well in Los Angeles.

[Todd McShay]

It's made me think, one of the first things that Kevin Whitelist. Because Kevin worked with us for 10 years.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right?

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

One of the first things he said when I checked in with him after he was with the Ravens for a full, you know, full fall and all that, he looked at me like almost like a deer in headlight. He's like, it is a relationship based business, man. You gotta get. He's like, I learned early. You gotta get to know these people and actually care. Don't ask them how they're doing and just keep walking on. Like actually sit down. Maybe bring in some bike coffee and donuts or something or whatever.

[Joe Ortiz]

It is.

[Todd McShay]

Like, you got to get to know. And that takes time. But without that, those relationships, I'm nothing.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, and that's, I mean, that's what football is. That's what all sports are.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, it's like, listen, you know, people move around. You know, people, people get fired, they get hired.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Like.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

You know, you build relationships with, with other people in the profession and, and where we know we care about each other. You know, I've been on the bus with you guys.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

It's like, yeah. You know, it's just. Yeah. You know, we know what you're doing. You know what we're doing.

[Todd McShay]

Like, there's a trust.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, there's a trust and the respect and appreciation for what we're all trying to accomplish in this job. And, you know, you show that towards someone and, you know, it's a two way street.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely. So, all right, last one. And definitely the most important one.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I kind of believe I broke bread with you. I'm hopeful that you're going to come through in this one. Talk to me about draft weekend spread. How much emphasis goes into it from you now that you're the captain of the ship, are you making sure the food is right? Do you like to eat during the draft after the, like, talk me through the whole thing and please don't tell me that you just go down to the. What was the one answer?

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Ganzi was a grab and go guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, Borgonzi,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

dude.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

We asked him what he does and he goes, I kind of a grab and go guy. I was like, I don't even know

[Joe Ortiz]

what that means, you know?

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

Yeah, but like, what are we doing? You know,

[Joe Ortiz]

we have a good meal. 1. We have Wolfgang Puck that does the catering at our facility.

[Todd McShay]

Now we're talking.

[Joe Ortiz]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, like tri tips, sirloins with drizzle. I mean, it's great.

[Todd McShay]

So he does.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

That's the catering all the time.

[Joe Ortiz]

All the time. Like, so it's really hard for me to say our draft night.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Joe Ortiz]

Spread is any better than, you know, a Monday. You know, Monday or Tuesday during the season, and it's a little better. But our victory nights are the best. You know, we get the tomahawk steaks out, you know, but. So I'm from the east coast, born in Philly, raised in Delaware, been eating blue crabs my whole life.

[Todd McShay]

Nice.

[Joe Ortiz]

And love Maryland crab soup. And I don't know what year it was, but at some point in Baltimore, we had Maryland crab soup on Thursday night, first night of the draft. So then I. They allowed me to start, you know, they checked the menu of me. I'm like, well, just make sure Steve has his fried shrimp. Steve was shot. Yeah, Steve has his fried shrimp. And make sure we have Maryland crab soup. And so my first year in Los Angeles, I'm like, anything you want for draft night? Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be great, but can we get Maryland crab soup? And sure enough, they got away. Yeah. Well, Tenille. Tenille with Baltimore, who runs the cafe, you know, the catering? She, her and Casey, who's the chef. They made a batch of Maryland crab soup, froze it up, sent it out there to me. And then the people. Wolfgang got the right. You know, they made. They got their own.

[Todd McShay]

There's some real effort.

[Joe Ortiz]

So I know the food's going to be good. And that's really all I'll eat. I'll eat a bowl of. I'll just make sure before we pick, I eat a bowl of Maryland crab soup. And then. And then I probably like Mike and I'll just graze and.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Ortiz]

Pick here, pick there, you know, so that's great.

[Todd McShay]

That's what I'm looking. Yeah.

[McShay's colleague (possibly a producer or co-host)]

I love that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Love that.

[Todd McShay]

Awesome catch.

[Joe Ortiz]

That's a must have. That's a must.

[Todd McShay]

I really appreciate it.

[Joe Ortiz]

Absolutely. I appreciate you guys. Absolutely.

[Todd McShay]

Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867

[Daniel Jeremiah]

SA.