Day Four From the Combine: Sonny Styles' Historic Day, Arvell Reese and more standouts from the EDGE, IDL, and LB Classes.

Summary

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The McShay Show | The Ringer

Day Four From the Combine: Sonny Styles' Historic Day, Arvell Reese and More Standouts from the EDGE, IDL, and LB Classes
Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Todd McShay
Guests: Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, Scott Fitterer (Carolina Panthers GM)

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Episode Overview

This special Combine episode takes listeners inside one of the most electric nights in recent NFL Draft memory. Todd McShay is joined by Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks to break down historic performances from Ohio State's Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese, discuss key EDGE, interior defensive line, and linebacker prospects, and present insider conversations from NFL front offices. The conversation is rooted in real-time Combine data, scouting insights, and the ever-shifting 2026 draft landscape, followed by a revealing interview with Panthers GM Scott Fitterer about evaluating talent and running a draft room.

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Headline Segment: Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese Dominate the Combine

Historic Performances & Measurables

[03:11 – 10:03]

• Both Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese deliver combine workouts that electrify evaluators:
  • Sonny Styles:
    • Measured at 6'5", 244 lbs, 10" hands, 33" arms.
    • Runs an official 4.46s 40-yard dash—elite at this size.
    • Vertical jump: 43.5 inches – best ever for a linebacker at the Combine, best for any 240+ lb athlete since 1999, and the 15th best vertical in Combine history at any position.
    • Broad jump: 11’2”
    • Previously played safety, still retaining coverage ability with added size.
    • “That 43 and a half inch vertical is the best ever accomplished by a linebacker... It is the 15th best vertical jump in the history of the combine" – Daniel Jeremiah [06:36]
    • "He can get into the 250s and like no sweat. There's no body fat." – Daniel Jeremiah [06:20]
  • Arvell Reese:
    • Just over 6'4", 241 lbs, 9.5" hands, 32.5" arms.
    • Official 4.46s 40-yard dash—matches Styles.
    • Did not jump, but matches much of Styles’ on-field explosiveness in drills.
    • “These guys are both great. We’re like, these guys... they could’ve gone home at that point and everyone would have been happy.” – Bucky Brooks [04:46]
• The two Ohio State stars push each other, each matching the other's times, building buzz among scouts, and setting a new threshold for athleticism at the linebacker position.

Context & Pass Rush Abilities

[09:06 – 14:44]

• Discussion pivots from raw athletic numbers to positional versatility and scheme fit.
• Sonny Styles is highlighted as a prospect with rare three-level defensive capability:
  • Can cover like a safety, play as a base linebacker, and rush the passer.
  • “You can cover with him, you can play him... on an obvious rundown, he’s your base Mike linebacker. On an obvious pass down, he can be overhang. He can rush. And you don’t know as a quarterback... which one he’s going to do.” – Daniel Jeremiah [14:45]
  • Styles’ pass rush stats: 39 pressures and 10 sacks (169 pass rush snaps in college).
  • Reese: off-ball LB with proven edge ability, 34 pressures and 11 sacks (138 snaps at edge).
• Both project as top-10 picks with Styles potentially pushing for the top 5:
  • "I would be willing to bet you right now Sonny Styles is not sitting there available for the sixth team that drafts." – Daniel Jeremiah [16:11]
  • "He tackles better in 2025 than he does in 2024... a year-over-year ascension guy." – Daniel Jeremiah [19:36]

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EDGE & DL Class Standouts

David Bailey, Cassius Howell, and TJ Parker

[22:53 – 41:24]

• David Bailey (EDGE):
  • Size: 6'3.5", 251 lbs, 10.25" hands, 33 3/8" arms.
  • 40: 4.50 (official time), 1.60 split.
  • Broad: 10’9”, Vert: 35”.
  • “These are like unbelievable times at that size. But it gets overshadowed by a 4.47." – Daniel Jeremiah [23:23]
• Cassius Howell (EDGE):
  • 6’2.5”, 253 lbs, extremely short arms (30.25").
  • 40: 4.59, 1.58 split, vertical: 32.5”, broad: 9’7”.
  • "Massive red flag for NFL evaluators," but disruptive on tape.
  • "He's going to be a great player, I guarantee you." – Daniel Jeremiah [36:24]
• TJ Parker (EDGE, Clemson):
  • 6’3", 263 lbs, arms: 33 1/8".
  • 40: 4.68, 10-yard split: 1.61, Vert: 34”, Broad: 10’.
  • "He's not getting out of the first round." – Bucky Brooks [40:44], validated by alignment with elite EDGE standards.

Defensive Tackles

[41:44 – 48:01]

• Caleb Banks (Florida, IDL):
  • 6’6.25”, 327 lbs, 10 7/8” hands, 35” arms, 85.75” wingspan (!)
  • 40: 5.04, vert: 32”, broad: 9’6”.
  • Withdraws due to cleat discomfort, slightly raising character/commitment questions.
  • "You were so close to having this perfect day." – Daniel Jeremiah [30:32]
• Grayson Halton (Oklahoma, IDL):
  • 6’2.5”, 293 lbs, 31.25” arms.
  • 40: 4.82, vert: 36.5” (best among IDL), tied for second-best broad, 4th best shuttle.
  • "He had the best vertical jump of any interior defensive lineman here." – Daniel Jeremiah [45:07]
• Lee Hunter:
  • Numbers disappoint with "red flags flying in a hurricane," but Brooks sticks by him:
  • "Give me Lee Hunter. Dude, watch the tape." – Bucky Brooks [47:30]

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Linebacker Winners and Notable Nudge Prospects

Anthony Hill Jr., Jacob Rodriguez, Caleb Elams

[41:24 – 53:55]

• Anthony Hill Jr. (Texas, LB):
  • 6’2”, 238 lbs, 32 3/8” arms, 79" wingspan.
  • 40: 4.51, broad: 10’5”, vert: 37”, “looked really smooth in drills.”
  • “He had a great day... Looked really smooth and clean in the, in the drills. I think he’s another first rounder.” – Daniel Jeremiah [42:52]
• Jacob Rodriguez (Texas Tech, LB):
  • 40: 4.57, vert: 38.5”.
  • “He’s a second rounder all day long.” – Daniel Jeremiah [43:36]
• Caleb Elams Orr (LB, nudge prospect):
  • 6’2”, 234 lbs
  • 40: 4.47
  • Vert: 40"
  • “That’s a name to get to know and to go check out more tape on…” – Daniel Jeremiah [51:14]

Other Noteworthy Combined Results

• Zane Durant (Penn State, DT):
  • 6’1”, 290 lbs, short arms, giant hands, 40: 4.75
  • Explosive similar to Kancey; "definitely helped himself." – Bucky Brooks [52:15]
• Malachi Lawrence (EDGE):
  • 6’4.5”, 253 lbs, 33 5/8” arms, vert: 40"
  • "He had the best broad jump, second best vertical, second best 40 and second best ten yard split—which is absurd for his size." – Daniel Jeremiah [53:13]

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Key Analytical Insights/Big Picture Draft Trends

[15:00 – 26:00, recurrent]

• Emphasis on multi-role, positionless defenders—Styles in particular as the prototype for the league's emerging demands.
• Explosive metrics (40 time, vertical, arm length) continue to predict NFL success at EDGE/LB more reliably than ever.
• Teams are increasingly looking for creative deployment (“three levels” defenders) instead of rigid positional fits.
• With no Myles Garrett-type edge at the top, versatility and rare testing are driving draft boards.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Sonny Styles checked in at 6-foot-5, 244 pounds... 43 and a half inch vertical." – Daniel Jeremiah [06:36]
• "I promise you, Nick, Eamon Worre's tape was not that great... Where Nicky Minwarri was on tape coming out of South Carolina compared to what Sonny Styles is out of Ohio State, there is not a comparison." – Daniel Jeremiah [11:17]
• "I'm not saying that Sonny's even going to go ahead of Arvell [Reese]. I'm saying that now all of a sudden I'm looking at this board a little bit more clearly..." – Daniel Jeremiah [20:29]
• Bucky Brooks, tongue-in-cheek: “Maybe you can clean up that cold by [Friday].” [47:10]
• "When you come here and you compete, it makes it really easy for guys in the league to be like, 'Yeah, that's... you stamp a guy.'" – Bucky Brooks [43:04]

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Interview: Scott Fitterer, GM, Carolina Panthers

[55:59 – 82:39]

Career Journey & Talent Evaluation Philosophy

• Started in scouting at Seattle (via internship), spent two years finding himself after NFL career.
• “If you’re the smartest person in the room, then you’re in the wrong room.” – John Schneider, as quoted by Fitterer [60:23]
• Stresses low-ego, team-oriented approach: “Put that ego to the side and just do what you gotta do. And I loved it.” [59:14]
• On what makes a prospect draftable: “We’re looking for… those guys that love football, guys that just—they’ll do anything to win. They love their teammates. They’re great in the locker room.” [68:05]
• On NIL era and transfer portal: “We're going to be able to get a snapshot of what this guy looks like with money.” [71:44]

Evaluation Process

• Emphasizes watching tape and matching observed effort/passion with in-person interviews.
• On draft board philosophy: “We just put a microscope on the draft board and we’re like, this guy’s either what we want or he’s not what we want.” [75:24]
• Keeps board to 115–170 names, carefully weeding out non-fits for culture and effort.
• “I want players... who've had to overcome a lot because inevitably you're going to have to deal with adversity when you get to the NFL.” [80:42]

Life Behind the Scenes

• Favorite part of GM job: “Watch tape. I’m in my office, ...I have full confidence. When we say we're picking this guy, I know this guy. Right. I don't have to depend on anybody else.” [76:30]
• Least favorite: The necessary but distracting fires and owner interactions, but he feels well-prepared thanks to mentor GMs.
• On adversity: “Attacking adversity... when you, like, kind of tells you who a person is. Like it does when you're down. Like, we all get our ass kicked.” – Daniel Jeremiah [80:24]
• Draft weekend tradition: “I’m a big sushi guy... a sushi guy comes in and makes [rolls] on the first day of the draft.” [81:39]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:11] Styles/Reese 40s and measurables
• [06:36] Styles’ all-time combine record jump
• [09:11] Contextualizing testing vs. tape for both
• [14:44] Scheme fits, multi-role defenders discussion
• [22:53] Edge/IDL class deep dive—Bailey, Banks, TJ Parker, etc.
• [41:24] Top LB performers—Hill, Rodriguez, Elams, etc.
• [55:59] GM Scott Fitterer Interview begins
• [68:05] Fitterer on building a locker room and board philosophy
• [81:39] Panthers draft room sushi tradition

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Summary Table: Combine Standouts

| Player | Pos | Height | Weight | 40 yd | Vert (in) | Broad (ft) | Notables | |--------------------|-----|--------|--------|-------|-----------|------------|------------------------------------| | Sonny Styles | LB | 6'5" | 244 | 4.46 | 43.5 | 11'2" | Best vert for LB/240+lb all-time | | Arvell Reese | LB | 6'4" | 241 | 4.46 | – | – | Matched Styles’ 40, top edge flex | | David Bailey | EDGE| 6'3.5" | 251 | 4.50 | 35 | 10'9" | 1.60 split; long arms; explosive | | Cassius Howell | EDGE| 6'2.5" | 253 | 4.59 | 32.5 | 9'7" | Very short arms, twitchy on tape | | TJ Parker | EDGE| 6'3" | 263 | 4.68 | 34 | 10 | Matched NFL avg for top pass rushers| | Caleb Banks | IDL | 6'6.25"| 327 | 5.04 | 32 | 9'6" | 85.75" wingspan, concerns remain | | Grayson Halton | IDL | 6'2.5" | 293 | 4.82 | 36.5 | – | Best vert among IDL, star at Sr. Bowl|

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Conclusion

This episode stands out as a real-time snapshot of a stunning defensive front seven Combine, with rare athletic benchmarks smashed, positional innovation discussed, and the practical realities of NFL talent evaluation unpacked. Whether you want the latest on LB/EDGE/IDL draft risers or the inside baseball of how a modern NFL GM builds his board and culture, this episode delivers—peppered with humor, competition, and the authentic grind of the football season.

Subscribe to The McShay Report for full mock drafts and premium content.

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Transcript

[Daniel Jeremiah]

We promised fireworks in the first night of combine workouts and boy did Sonny Styles, Arvell Reese and the defensive front seven gang deliver. There's only 56 days until the NFL draft. Men, you good?

[Bucky Brooks]

I'm great man.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Tucker, roll that thing. Wow. I mean, wow. It gets one thing when Nick Eeman Warri at the time a late first round, early second round prospect goes out and does something like he did a year ago. It's another one. A top 10 prospect in Sonny Styles comes out and delivers a workout like we just saw. Man. We're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list@scout motors.com just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. And then to have his teammate who's ranked even higher on most teams boards, Arvell Reese, put up the same 40 time watching that in my hotel room with you. Here we are in Indy and it's all you can dream of when you're in a hotel room. Going back and forth to the to the Lucas Oil Field meeting with all these coaches and GMs and the conversations we're having. But really the events about the players on the field and the workouts and you talk all you want about is it overrated is overblown. I think in 2026 we know what these numbers mean and I think we've come to realize that certain numbers at certain positions show correlation to NFL success. And also when players are special on the field and they go do stuff like they did today and tonight It's. It's special. Man Toogood Co Coffee creamers are made

[Bucky Brooks]

with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers

[Daniel Jeremiah]

for a rich, delicious experience.

[Scott Fitterer]

Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers

[Bucky Brooks]

make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's incredible.

[Bucky Brooks]

I mean, it was funny watching it because the first time through Reese obviously comes for. Comes before Styles. And Reese runs this low 4 5. We're like, man, that's pretty good. But we're getting like, Styles gonna be the faster one. Styles goes out and lays down, I think the 4, 4, 8.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

447, unofficial, right?

[Bucky Brooks]

Right. Was it 447?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

447. His first 40 was a 4, 4, 7, unofficial. And I just. Let's give some comments.

[Bucky Brooks]

And I thought he got out of the block slow. I was like, that was not a great start.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Oh, he got out of the block slow. And now he's like 20 yards in. And I'm like, I don't know. But he's accelerating, he's cooking. So Sonny Stiles checked in at 6 foot 5, 244 pounds. Okay. 10 inch hands. They tell me to keep. Make sure my phone's up. Hey, it's. It's better than me. It's nine o' clock somewhere. 10 inch hand span and nearly 33 inch arm length. Arvell Reese, 604, 6041. So just over six foot four. Almost an inch shorter, right? 241 pounds. Three pounds lighter. Nine and a half inch hands, half inch smaller handspan, which is measured from. From pinky to.

[Bucky Brooks]

To thumb, as we found out the other day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep. And then 32 and a half inch arm length. All really, really good for linebacker and all. Okay. Solid for. For an edge.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right? So Styles goes out and lays down that for you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Lays down a 4, 7 after Reese. Because it goes alphabetically. Reese goes. He runs a 4, 5, 1. I think it was unofficial. We're like, whoo, he's cooking.

[Bucky Brooks]

These guys are both great. We're like, these guys are, you know, like, they could. They could gone home at that point, and everyone would have been happy.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I remember saying, like, man, he's cooking. But I kind of was hoping for something with the. Yep, four with a four after the point.

[Bucky Brooks]

And then Reese comes back out and goes, go, sub four five.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And it was like Reese came out and matched the447. It was like watching two guys compete on the, like in the court out back.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, it was insane.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

They go, you ran a447. I'm gonna run a 4, 4, 7 2. Yep.

[Bucky Brooks]

And then the official came out and then.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then. And then Sunny has another run and he goes and runs another 447. So he's a 447 guy.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But the officials come out and they say, no, he's not a 4, 47 guy. He's faster.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He's a 4, 4, 6 guy. And guess what? So. So is Arvel. Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Unbelievable.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Both had official times in the 40 yard dash of 4, 4, 6, UN.

[Bucky Brooks]

Unbelievable. that size is just. It's insane to be moving like that. And again, I don't know how far we want to jump ahead here. But like, I'm just going to say this because it was the. It was the theme of the day was the numbers they put up were insane. But then you're watching the workout and you're like, at that size, they move better. Like it was noticeable how much better they move.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And here's the crazy part. We had already. So. So Arvel didn't jump. He didn't do the jumps. Okay. But Sonny Stiles did.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And by the way, just. Just looking at him like up close, the. The length, how he carries the weight.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I promise you, my, my man can. Can carry five, seven more. I mean he, he can get. He can get into the 250s and like no sweat.

[Bucky Brooks]

There's no body fat.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. And he's in training mode right now. He's going to be a 250 plus player in the NFL.

[Bucky Brooks]

I agree.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So. And then he goes and jumps a vertical jump. Yeah, he jumped a 43 and a half inch vertical. I want to give people context here. You ready for this? They started this database in 1999, which coincidentally I have kept all the records since 1999. I am not the database. I'm not the official guy. My first year, we were seniors in college and Gary Horton called me after I interned with him out in Arizona, said, hey, you got this opportunity. Would you want to run to? Do you want to go to Indianapolis? I'm like, hell yeah. Yeah. So I Show up in 1999. They. They sneak me in. Debbie Pollum with the LA Rams. It's enough time has passed. I can, I can now. She snuck me in, a good friend of Gary's, and I'm in there and like taking notes with young Shay. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. The point is they started the, the kind of the combine database with official times. Right. 1999. So when I say ever, it goes back to 1999. The common draft is what, 67? Yeah. We'll call it the common combine is 1999. So this 43 and a half inch vertical is the best ever accomplished by a linebacker. It is the best ever accomplished by any athlete that has been invited to and participated in the combine. At 240 plus pounds. He was 244. It is the. I want you to think about this too. This one's wild. It is the 15th best vertical jump in the history of the combine for any player at any position, any height, any weight. And I want you to think about some of the absolutely ludicrous athletes that we've seen come through Indianapolis in all the years we've been here.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah. I mean, even worry did 43 inches. He backed him at 220 pounds.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And you know, my favorite part was that's 24 pounds. That's like after he ran that 4, 46 official 40 yard dash and went over and did an interview right after. And not even heavy breathing was like, you know, I'm pleased with the 43 and a half inch vertical. I was shooting for 45 anyway.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, I mean, talk about hitting all the marks, exceeding expectations and the way they carry themselves. I mean the, the two of them. Styles is obviously the story, but Reese could have come out here and be like, I don't know, man, I don't know. Like, maybe he's not this fast or maybe like, you know, David Bailey ran really well earlier on in the day. And you're thinking to yourself, Reese has got to kind of put up a time here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I want to have some contextual talk because everyone's going to talk the numbers and they're going to yell and scream.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think it's important for what we do and how, like, you know, how I am. Like, be better is my mantra.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So let's be better for a minute. I think the be better conversation is this. And I actually text some GMs during, like after it. I'm like, what if I told you I have a 6 foot 5, 244 pound athlete who is, who was a damn fine football player, already confirmed, who's gotten better year over year and jumps 43 and a half inches, runs a four, four six. And as an 11 foot, what's the 11 foot two broad jump? How early is too early.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And the best. The best. No, I said how. I said how early? How early can you take him? And. And the best answer I got back was pretty early.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, he was smart too. At the, at the podium, Styles was what, talking about how he loves to rush the passer and he didn't get to do it a lot this year, but he brought up a rep from Texas two years ago where he had a strip sack and he could do it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Man, I made this point to you. I made this point to you. Sorry, a cup. I think it was yesterday, maybe two days ago. I think it was. No, it was yesterday when we were prepping for the. For this very moment. Right. I made this point that he rushed half as many times and had half as many. Rushed half as many times. He wasn't on the line of scrimmage half as many times this past year. Yeah, I was surprised at the. I shouldn't have been because I've watched all the tape, but I think it was like 300 plus snaps. 333 isn't the number. It's in my head. I don't know if that's official, but it's 330 plus, I believe for Arvell Reese on the. At edge, left outside linebacker. Right outside linebacker. Okay. He wasn't nearly as much on the line of scrimmage this year, but he rushed half as many times. Like rush the passer. Okay. Sonny Stiles did. Because all the talk all year long was that Arvel Reese is this unbelievable off the ball linebacker, but man, does he have edge rushing ability.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And that's why we even. We were told he may even work out with the edge rushers earlier in the day. Winds up working out with the linebacker. So now we've got kind of apples for apples. Almost identical sizes of frames, all that. But Sonny's taller. Sonny's thicker or bigger by a few pounds. Sonny's got longer arms, like. Yeah. So he actually looks the part of an edge. I want to remind people of this, too. This is important. Note Sonny Styles, if you don't forget. I know you don't forget. Sunny Styles is a converted safety. And this is a day and age in the NFL where teams are desperately seeking something new, special. And look at Nick Eamonwauri in his first year. And I promise you this, Nick's a really good football player. Nick can't hold a cup to Sonny Stiles as a football player. Where they, where, where Nicky Minwarri was on tape coming out of South Carolina compared to what Sonny Stiles is out of Ohio State. There is not a comparison in terms of somebody has better tape, like vastly better tape. Okay, so now I'm asking this question because here's what I got for you. On 169 pass rush snaps, Sonny Styles has 39 pressures and 10 sacks in his career. He lined up on the edge over his career 317 times on 138 pass rush snaps for Arvell Reese, 34 pressures and 11 sacks, five fewer pressures, one more sack. He lined up at edge 333 times. Arvel did. I thought it was this year. Maybe it was career, but I thought it was this year. Well, I mean, it makes sense because he didn't. Yeah, he didn't get any reps the year before. He was a backup. Hmm.

[Bucky Brooks]

I don't. Listen, I love Sonny Styles. I think that Reese. I mean, we're now getting to the conversation where you think that you're gonna move Styles out of. Reese, what are you saying here? What are you saying?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm just saying. Okay, so. So now you go back to. You. Now you go back to the hotel and everyone's grabbing a cocktail or they've got a couple meetings with players and. And I'm the defensive coordinator for. For the New York jets or I'm the head coach of the New York jets and I'm sitting there with Mogi or I'm defensive coordinator in Arizona and I want to talk to Austin for it, like the general manager. I don't know. I'm just like creatively thinking in my mind. And I'm not saying take Sonny. I'm just saying it opens up the questions. It opens up this, like this avenue of questioning of, okay, the league's the. We keep seeing the league change. We keep seeing if you give me a player that's special and some. Maybe some untapped pass rush ability. He's a former safety. He can cover, he can run and hit. I can use him in like three different roles almost legitimately. Like three different levels in a year where there's not Myles Garrett.

[Bucky Brooks]

Wait, hold on. You think Sonny Styles is playing three levels?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm not necessarily. I said, but like backed off like. Like some dime safety. Some, like. I'm saying you can cover with him, you can play him. Run, run. In a. In a base.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

On an obvious rundown. He's your base. Mike. Linebacker. Yes. Okay. On an obvious pass down, he can be an overhang. Yep. He can rush. And you don't know as a quarterback if he. What. Which one he's going to do.

[Bucky Brooks]

Correct. Yep. Those things are all true.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't know. I'm just. The value there is a hell of a lot greater than it used to be in the NFL.

[Bucky Brooks]

I hear you. And maybe that it's because I keep hearing.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Sorry, I keep hearing this. This. This whole.

[Bucky Brooks]

I love it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Slant on. Well, this year we don't have, you know, the. The non position position players of non premium position are right at the top. But like, maybe they are. Because if Arvel Reese is an edge and Sonny Styles can do all those different things. Isn't there more of a premium on that Bryce Betture. He's not. But I'm saying like as a play, he's not. Like, he's not Devin Lloyd. No. And Devin Lloyd would be a top 10 pick in this draft if we knew what Devin Lloyd was going to turn out to be. Yep. Maybe top five. Seven to be honest with you.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah. I don't think Sonny Styles getting out of 10 at this point.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He's definitely not getting out of 10. I'm gonna say this right now. Who picks the. He's definitely not getting out of the top five.

[Bucky Brooks]

The Giants are at five. Interesting.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

There is no chance past seven.

[Bucky Brooks]

I think the commanders are at seven. If he's there, they're gonna. They're gonna smash.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Seven is the safe call. I would be willing to bet you right now Sonny Styles is not sitting there available for the six team that drafts the Cleveland Browns. The Cleveland. The Cleveland Browns will not have a chance to draft Sonny Styles. He will be taken.

[Bucky Brooks]

So if we go Mendoza goes one to the Jets. All right, let's play the game. Mendoza. Yep. Bailey or Reese. Right. Although Tennessee just made a trade that maybe they don't take Bailey or Reese there.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The. The Jet. No, the jets or the Jets. The jets traded Jermaine Johnson. Opening it but making it like confirmed that they're absolutely taking an edge there.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right. So the jets are taking.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So it's Bailey or Reese is. Yep. Could it not be Sonny Styles? Okay. And it would say if it's not Sunny Styles. Now you're at three.

[Bucky Brooks]

Give me the odds here. Tell me. Let's just go back to this because this is what I want to know you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Why won't you finish this game with me?

[Bucky Brooks]

I could be. I. I don't. I'm not gonna say that. It's. It's not. Here's what I'm gonna say to you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You told me The Cardinals at 3

[Bucky Brooks]

couldn't take before you started yelling at me. I have like the worst cold in the world.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I know you're. You

[Bucky Brooks]

can't even handle you right now like. But I would.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I try.

[Bucky Brooks]

I just let me finish my point.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

If you want the real like what a real life is with Steve and I, this is it. Oh God. Good.

[Bucky Brooks]

I love it though. I. I listen, I hear you. You're making some great points and I will say this to you. Maybe you're right about the numbers. Maybe it's that Styles and do it a lot last year and I have been saying to you for a while now that Styles can rush the passer, I see a different pass rusher.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

When I see Dan's crying, I see

[Bucky Brooks]

a different pass rusher when I see Reese rush the passer, I know that. So to me, that's value.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm not saying he has to rush as much. I'm just saying, I'm looking at this, at this, like, yeah, wipe your nose, clean your eyes off. I'll take a single shot, it's fine. I'm just saying, I'm just saying if I'm a defensive coordinator and this is one of my first real exposures to Sonny Styles, and then I go back and I watch the tape and I see, huh, he can rush a little bit, but I'm not even drafting him to rush. Like, I'm going to draft Arvell Reese to rush because Arvel Reese can cover, but he can't cover like Sonny does. That's fair. And so, but I have this player that can do all these things and, and this lower body explosion and the speed and like, I don't know that. That's so different and so unique. I promise you, Nick, Eamon Worre's tape was not that great. It just wasn't that great at South Carolina. There were some really cool, awesome things on it. When was he drafted, Steve?

[Bucky Brooks]

Second round.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Second round. I promise you it was. Right. Right. But how important was he to the super bowl run for the Seattle Seahawks? Critical. And how much better of a football player is he in that scheme in the National Football League than he was at South Carolina?

[Bucky Brooks]

Significant. There was a significant jump.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. And so I'm not, I'm not trying to say anything, South Carolina coaching staff to Matt Patricia, to anyone else, but I'm saying as this young man is continuing to grow into his body and grow as a player and he gets the NFL and you have someone creative. Yeah. They can kind of like, whoa, there's all this stuff here. And I don't know, I'm just saying we love his tape too.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And he tackles better in 2025 than he does in 2024. And his, and his instincts are better in 25 than they were in 24. So he's a year over year ascension guy. And I'm looking at these skills and saying, why is. Tell, tell me there's not more because I know there, I know. Tell me there's not, because I know there is.

[Bucky Brooks]

I hear you, I, I, I listen, I hear you. What it's going to come down for me and I just think the league is still this What? This way? Who do you think is going to be the better pass rusher? I understand all the things that he can do. I think Arvell Reese can do some things off the ball too. I mean, Arvell Reese is a hell of a football player who maybe didn't finish the year as well as he had started it, but there's a lot of great tape.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, this is. I'm not saying shade on Reese.

[Bucky Brooks]

I think if you're there and you're the jets and you're choosing between these two incredibly gifted players.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Hey, hey, I'm, I'm not saying that Sonny's even going to go ahead of our bell.

[Bucky Brooks]

That's what I'm trying to get to get to with you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay. I'm saying that now all of a sudden I'm looking at this board a little bit more clearly and I'm saying, you know what? I love running backs. Jeremiah Love's got great. But I don't love drafting running backs early. Caleb Downs is an unbelievably good football player. I'm not drafting a safety early this early and I'm not drafting ahead of a couple of guys who just ran a 4 4, 7, 64 6, 5 2, 40 plus.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay, so I'm starting to whittle this board down saying I like these offensive tackles. Francis Ma, we know is a big bad dude who can move pretty well and Spencer Fano's got shorter arms than you want and you're starting to couch the whole thing because you're concerned about it. But he's a really good left hack in this and these wide receivers are really good, but they're not Calvin Johnson. No, they're not Joe Alt.

[Bucky Brooks]

No. I mean also the best offensive lineman in this class is probably a guard.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, yeah, it's from Penn State.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

but so my point is, I'm not saying that this all of a sudden a work. I'm not getting carried away enough to say, well his tape is that good. I'm going to draft him higher than the two pass rushers that, by the way, Arvel Reese, we just told you. 6, 4 plus 24110 inch hands, 33 inch arms. By the way. Almost an 81 inch wingspan too. On, on, on. Oh no, that's, that's Sunny style. Sorry. Arvel Reese was sick. Yeah. Six one, two, four nine and a half inch hands, 32 and a half inch arms. It was a point though on Sonny Styles. 81 inch wingspan.

[Bucky Brooks]

Here we go.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He runs a four, four six. He runs a one five eight tied for the third, which. Which in a lot. For a lot of teams. That Bill Polian, his whole thing, he built that defense on speed. I need closers. I need closers. And he told me he would get angry at me. He's like, tell. Tell me when someone runs a one six zero or faster and then I'll start listening to you. Todd, is what he used to say with the pass rushers for what his scheme was. That doesn't mean they're the only ones who can be good. But he wanted. He didn't care what the size was. Running 16 or faster. He ran an official 15 8. Sonny Styles ran an official 156. But like, those are great measurable. He didn't do his jumps.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Arvell Reese did not do the vertical and broad jump. Right. But then I look over David Bailey, by the way. Hey, welcome to the conversation. Bailey could be the number two overall pick as the jets ship off Jermaine Johnson and they pick up Tavandre Sweat at defensive tackle, interior defensive line. And David Bailey, by the way, checks in at 6:03 5. Half an inch off of those. Off of Arvell 251. 10 pounds heavier.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

10 and a quarter inch hands. Significantly bigger hands. Is that important? Well, kind of ripping, you know, push, pull, all that 33 and 3 8. Arm length, inch arm length. That's another full inch plus on. On Arvell Reese. And he like, it's just, it gets lost in what he did today. Yeah, but David bailey ran a 450-Flat official time. These are like unbelievable times at that, at that size. But it gets overshadowed by a 4, 4, 7. But my gosh, what's the difference? Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Well, he did run a 160 split.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He ran a 1 6.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, he did.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Which was surprising to me. And I hear, I hear pulling in my ear right now.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know, and so you want to. You got to figure that out. And because one of his strengths on tape is his explosive takeoff. But he broad jumped 10, 9.

[Bucky Brooks]

That's insane.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But only a 35 inch vertical like his. His workout was a little up and down. I don't know, it's. It's fascinating when you have a draft where the quarterbacks going number one. And I got some really interesting conversations we're going to share here on some of the quarterback stuff. I'm not done tonight.

[Bucky Brooks]

Are you going to yell at me?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Not tonight, okay? Not tonight. I'm building. I'm talking. I'm building. I'm talking we're going to have some interesting.

[Bucky Brooks]

I'm trying to survive right now, and I feel like I'm getting yelled at.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm not done. I'm just. I'm saying I'm not done with some of the angles I've gone down the

[Bucky Brooks]

road with

[Daniel Jeremiah]

with the next four teams. Well, take the Giants out of it. Unless the Giants would view him as a chess piece. That doesn't have to be an edge because they just drafted an edge three overall last year. Last year, with Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeau already in house with Abdul Carter. I don't know if he.

[Bucky Brooks]

I don't.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He could go the Giants as a linebacker and just be another freaking weapon on that side of the ball. Yeah, he could go to Tennessee. He's not an edge. He's not an edge. I'm saying there's some capability there.

[Bucky Brooks]

I think Robert Salo would want him.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Oh, my gosh. He just brought Jermaine Johnson back.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

A weapon just like a chess piece. I don't know. We've gone on long enough. You're crying and I can't.

[Bucky Brooks]

Like, my face is melting.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's okay.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Everyone still loves you. Everyone. Here's the other big story from today. And we warned. Actually, I warned Caleb Banks, if anyone was watching a couple days ago with some of the stuff, that you're a big dude who moves really well. I saw flashes. And if I saw it, everyone in the NFL saw it at the Senior bowl. When you get pissed off and someone gets under your skin, you. You're an absolutely dominant football player. But I also. And I saw those flashes on tape sometimes at Florida, but then I saw the plays where it's just like, pads up. When I say pads up. It's not like a technique thing when a player's pads rise. It's just kind of lazy. It's like, I'm not determined to fire out on this play and keep my pads low and make an impact on this play. I'm going to kind of feel it out, grab on with my long arms and do all that.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Does too much of that. And then you hear some of the stories. And I walked you through all that. There's some kind of growing up that needs to happen. Okay. Doesn't mean it can't. But I said, if I'm a team with a couple dogs in that D line room and some defensive leadership, I'm looking at this guy and saying, but I warned Caleb Banks from Florida. You better show up here and put up some Numbers that make general managers say to themselves, you know what, he's worth that risk. And my goodness, did he do it?

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What do you mean?

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, I mean it's impressive. But we, we just had a talk with Mike Borgonzi, the gm, who said we become intoxicated with talent. Let's go. Go into the numbers first because they are.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Here are the numbers. Six foot six and a quarter. 327 pounds, 10 and seven, eight inch hands. That's like massive. 35 inch arm length. There's like four or five of those guys a year at all positions. Okay, with an eight. I just told you that Sonny Stiles had an 80, almost an 81 inch arm wingspan and that was wild. His is 85 and three quarters. He's like a, he's like a city block. When he stands like this, that's like, that's like fifth. That's like a fifth and fourth between 49th and 48th in Manhattan. He comes out and he jumps 32 inch vertical. The five year average for, for interior defensive lines at the combine is 305 pounds jumping 29 inches. I just told you, he's 327 pounds and he jumped 32 inches. Broad jump nine six. Second best of all the interior defensive linemen. And I want to remind you, some guys were like 287, 296. He's 327. Then he ran a 5:04 in the 40 yard dash. For perspective, only two other interior defensive linemen today were over 300 pounds and ran faster. The next. The next highest or next closest in weight was Capehart, the defensive tackle from Clemson. And he was 14 pounds lighter.

[Bucky Brooks]

It's crazy.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay, his, his height, 98th percentile. His weight, 89th percentile. Hand 94th. Arm 94th. Wingspan, 99th longest at the combine for defensive tackle since we started recording when Pop Quiz, 1999. So why isn't a hundredth percentile?

[Bucky Brooks]

And then what happened?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then what happened was his cleats were hurting him and he decided not to finish his workout.

[Bucky Brooks]

So weird. It's so weird. Like I don't even care. Like just say you like you're done for the day. Why are your cleats feeling strange? Why?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Like it's. Well, he had a foot injury that he missed most.

[Bucky Brooks]

I understand and I don't like, I get that and that should be taken into account. But just be like my foot.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It plays into the narrative. And here, here's the thing. When you think we're being like, oh,

[Bucky Brooks]

they're being so old man yelling at the clouds. I get it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, but the. Here's the. Like, people always want to know from us. What's the real talk? Well, the real talk is when Caleb Banks pulls out from the end and. And gives cleats weren't feeling well. Every single person that matters, that has a voice in an NFL draft room is saying, of course he does. And it's. And it's unfortunate. Now he's earned it. And so had Sonny Stiles. That happened. They'd be like, something's wrong. Arvell Reese, something's wrong.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

A lot of other guys. Something's wrong. So. And again, it's. It's not something that's going to change it. It's just like he was. You were so close to having this perfect day.

[Bucky Brooks]

It's a great day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Unbelievable day. Where are we going now?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So many places I want to go.

[Bucky Brooks]

Okay.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I want to get back to. You know what? Let's talk. There are some other players that had really good days. Do you think he goes in the first round? Caleb Banks?

[Bucky Brooks]

I think in this class, someone's going to take a shot.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

His RAS score, unofficially, they haven't released the official ones. Was. It's like it was 10.

[Bucky Brooks]

Scares the hell out of me.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Me too. Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Like Kaden McDonald, just because I don't know if we're going to get to him. Did not have anywhere near the day. And if I'm. If I'm a GM at that. the back end of the first round,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

early second round, Michael Kayla McDonald didn't. Didn't run.

[Bucky Brooks]

I mean, he didn't look as good during the. The field drills either. Yeah, I didn't think he had a great day. And if I'm a GM on the back end of the first round, early second round, I'm psyched about it. I'm psyched about it. I want people to look at that and be like, oh, I don't know, man. Do you see him at the combine? He wasn't moving that well because throw on the tape. That guy's a dude. That guy is really freaking good. And I know what I'm getting with him. I know how hard he plays.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I want to get to. You know what? That brings me a good point. The throw on the tape, because that guy's a dude. Here's some interesting stuff, and I'm. We can kind of rip through it. There's two aspects of this, and it's both in the edge rusher capacity. Let's call it Cassius Howell. One of my favorite players now in the draft, after I went back and studied his tape after like exhausting it through August, watched all these other edge rushers, came back to his tape. I'm like, oh, he's quicker, he's more sudden. He takes on doubles. He, he's got this lower body like flexibility, slash strength to him that it just doesn't appear he should all these things. Okay. And as I watched him on tape, I'm like, I just have a feeling he's gonna work out really well, but I don't care. And the reason why he started to drop on my board is every scout and general manager I talked to, anytime his name came up, like, yeah, but man, those arms. And then I kept watching it through that lens of his arm length and honest to God, I told you I watched Derek Moore from Michigan with 33 plus inch arms. I don't know if you can look up Derek Moore. Here it is. Derrick Moore showed up at 33 and 38 inch arm length. I thought there were a lot more times on his tape where he had, he got stuck on pads. And I think David Bailey with those long arms get stuck on pads sometimes too long. I think that there's a lot of so. But then he shows up, my man Cassius Howell, and it's shorter than even people thought. Yeah, people thought it could be just sub 31 inch. It's 30 and a half inch arm length for Cassius. How I want to remind you, was one of the most disruptive dominant game breaking edge rushers and pass rushers in the entire country.

[Bucky Brooks]

This year it's actually 30 and a quarter.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Sorry, 30 and a quarter? Yeah, closer to 30 than 31. And it's just a massive red flag for NFL evaluators. And then he comes out and works out and they think, well, all right, you know what? I don't see it on tape as much as I thought I would, but I, but I'm hopeful he's going to have this awesome rest of the day. And you know what? He does have a really good day. He runs the fourth fastest 40 of all the edge rushers. He's six two and a half, 253. It's. These are not. That's like he's a. He's shorter than you want. He's about an inch shorter than, than like the new average at edge. But there's a lot of guys in that six, six, six two and a half. Six three and a half range. 253. He's actually put together.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, right. He's like at that frame it's a good 253.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And he runs a 4, 5, 9. Awesome. And he runs at 158, 10 yard split. Fastest of all the edges and tied and so tied for fourth. Of all the. Of everyone who worked out today, same as Reese, same as Arvel Reese. Okay. Same as a much smaller linebacker, Anthony Hill Jr. Who had an awesome day. And we'll get back to him. So he does all those things, but then his vertical jump and his broad jump you're looking for. If he's going to have short arms and we're going to play him down there, he better have this explosive lower body power. 32 and a half inch vertical nine seven broad. And remember, like I know not everyone is. Is Sonny stiles jumping a 43 and a half. But the vertical jump, the average vertical jump for a six, three and a half, 267 pound edge because I break it down by 265 and above two. I'm talking for the power guys, the higher guys is, is 32 and three eighths. So he's right there. It's just average for a big, you know.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And his broad jump was below average too. And he brings me to this point, right, because I've had a lot of conversations now and a lot more today and a lot of texts. I got a couple coming. We got to clear out this room tomorrow. By the way. I've got a couple of like really important. But, but all these conversations when you start talking to edge rushers is look at the, look at what works. Don't forget what works. And that's why people get so hung up on it. Okay. Because this tape is awesome for Cassius and it's. And it's intoxic. It's intoxicating. And he's going to be a great player, I guarantee you. Nick Herbig was a fourth round pick and doesn't, couldn't. Doesn't sniff this guy's athleticism and explosiveness. Had seven and a half sacks last year for Pittsburgh. It was a fourth round pick.

[Bucky Brooks]

You've been ranting and raving about the best players, man. Don't get caught up in.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But I want you to listen to this, okay. When looking at edges over the last 10 years. Yeah. For the last 10 years. One decade. The top 10 edges. If you took all of them each year in pressures 10 years, top 10 each year, throw them into a database, sort it out, press enter. Here are their averages. So these are the best of the best in the League over the last 10 years, the average edge who's in the top 10 in pressures every year, average wise, 6 foot 3, 262 pounds. So he's not that far off of that.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

33 and 3. 8 inch arm length. That's 3 plus inches. 16310 yard split. He's a hell of a lot faster. Right. 35 inch vertical. He doesn't have that. 10 inch broad. He doesn't have that. The point is power.

[Bucky Brooks]

I hear you. Some of these averages scare me because Miles Garrett's gonna throw off that average with his size. You know what I mean? And I do think we're moving towards. We've talked about this, where we're moving to. We're smaller edge rushers and this has happened in the past. There's been smaller edge rushers that have had success, but I think even more so. Leaner, lighter, although shorter. Not necessarily.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I will not. I, I hear you and thank you for, for standing by your man. I will not come off of, nor should you. But it does, it is a, it's good perspective when I. Because you know who the guys the hottest names in this draft are and they didn't even work out today.

[Bucky Brooks]

Oh well, Styles and Reese are pretty hot.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean like the hottest names in the draft. Like talking to people for the last few days before the workout started.

[Bucky Brooks]

Tell me. I'm listening.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

They're long. I know you can. You're barely alive. Come on, man. T.J. parker, he did Zion Young.

[Bucky Brooks]

Those are the hottest names you think for my conversation.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Edge rushers. T.J. parker, Zion Young. Gabe Akis.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I just talked to a personnel director yesterday. All he wanted to talk about is Gabe. Gabe Akis really? Talked to a personnel director on the field, the Senior Bowl. I think you probably know who I'm talking about. Gabe Akis, Loved his interviews. Power. He's your hands. That's what Power hands, you know, like. Yeah, longer arms. What was he, 33 inch arms? 6, 4, 2, 60. Big strong hands. 10 inch hand, you know, so it's just a reminder. It's just a reminder. While I'm not gonna back off Cassius Howell, I then look at, I look at TJ Parker, a guy who.

[Bucky Brooks]

Good, I'm glad we're talking about.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Had half of the sacks essentially. What do you go from 11 to 5, 2024 to 2025. Vaunted Clemson defense loaded with talent. We did a whole podcast on how much talent that defense had and my gosh, did we jinx that group. TJ Parker Comes out this year and some of it scheme. I liked his tape. I think his tape is way better than the rap he's getting. But it's not as good as the 24 tape.

[Bucky Brooks]

Fair.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But I watched TJ Parker show up at the combine. Apples to apples comparison. And he's one of the most dominant players there. And then he shows Senior Bowl. Sorry. Then he shows up at the combine and while dudes are jumping 43 1/2 inch running 44 7s, 1 5, 8 splits. I look at his numbers and I say 6035. Remember the top 10 averages are 6, 3, 263 pounds. Top 10 average, 26233 and 3, 8 inch arm length is the. Is the average over the 10 years for those top pass rushers. His is 33 and an eighth 40 yard dash. He runs a 4, 6, 8, 10 yard splits. A 161 for Parker. Two 260 two hundredths of a second faster than that average. Vertical 30, 35 is that great average. He's a 34. Broad jumps a 10. He's a 10. He's in line with what the guys in the league.

[Bucky Brooks]

He's not getting out of the first round.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't think he is either.

[Bucky Brooks]

I don't think he's getting out of the first round. He did. I'm so happy for him because of all the up and down through the process. When he goes to the Senior bowl, takes advantage of that opportunity and then he shows up here and competes and he didn't blow the doors off anyone. But remember, he's 263 pounds. But some of these guys are running around at 240, 250. This kid's a big kid. It's making me emotional. I'm just trying to fake it till I make it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right now you're doing great.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah. Good, good, good. I know you're enjoying this, by the way.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm actually thoroughly enjoying it.

[Bucky Brooks]

I know you are.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Couple other guys I think are good players that had really good days. I mentioned one of them, linebacker Anthony Hill Jr. He Like, I don't know that he gets out of the first round. Texas linebacker. How about that, huh?

[Bucky Brooks]

Like, I agree with you. Like that's. I think C.J. allen might not be. I think he might go ahead of CJ Allen at this point. I mean, he really took advantage of what, what he had to do today.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

C.J. allen did not participate. And we could throw up the. Yeah, there's the linebacker rankings. C.J. allen did not participate. I've got C.J. allen behind, behind Anthony Hill Jr. Coming in. And it's certainly not going to change now. I should say for the record, I am in a like the tiniest minority. I'm like a 1%er in the NFL because everyone loves C.J. allen. I've got to figure out what I'm missing. But he's 6, 2, 2, 38, like good. He's, he's a will. He's like you're, you know, off ball linebacker. 6 2, 2, 38, all good. 32 and 3, 8 inch arms, 79 inch wingspan, which is great for him. He ran a 4, 5, 1. Outstanding. It's fourth best in that linebacker group. But that group just happened to have two superhumans in it. And a guy we'll get to later that had an awesome day too. His broad jump was 10:5. Tied for third in the linebacker group. 37 inch vertical like he just had. He had a great day. Looked really smooth and clean in the, in the drills. I think he's another first rounder. Yeah, I think the cream's starting to rise to the top. And you know what, when you come here and you compete, it makes it really easy for guys in the league to be like, yeah, that's.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah, it looks different. Look at that guy. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Doesn't mean you. Because there's a whole hell of a lot of first round. There's probably. I don't. I would have to look, you start with Mendoza and you go to some of the other top guys that didn't work out today. There will be first rounders that didn't work out today.

[Bucky Brooks]

But.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But man, does it make it easy to stamp. Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

I thought Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech, I was really happy for him. He's not going to go in the first round, but he did everything he needed to do today. 4, 5, 7, 4. I thought that was better than expected.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Oh my gosh.

[Bucky Brooks]

38 and a half inch vertical for Jacob Rodriguez. You look at the production, the tape, the human being, he. I think he's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He's a second rounder all day long.

[Bucky Brooks]

I think so too.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And he's a second rounder all day long.

[Bucky Brooks]

That just was not a thing coming into the air.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, no.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, he was like, he was, he was a day.

[Bucky Brooks]

He was late. Yeah, I think it's great.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

One last guy that we've talked a lot about on the show started actually. It started in the College Football Playoff and then I called Oklahoma and they were like, please throw out throughout a couple Names and Grayson Halton was one of them. And they're like, please, if there's anyone that deserves, please give him some love. Yeah, we were doing underrated prospects, guys kind of under the radar right now. Prospects playing in the College Football Playoff. Oklahoma's. I went with Grayson Holton. He's a one technique nose. So we saw him in the College Football Playoff. We now know his background, like, and just how great of a young man he is, the energy he brings and all of that. He's six, two and a half. He shows up. Oh, by the way, Senior Bowl. He was one of the stars. Shows up here. Six, two and a half, 293 pounds. I wanted to see him close to 300. He's there. Okay. Arm length 31 and, you know, 31 and a quarter. You. You'd like to. You'd like 33, but it's, you know, shorter. Shorter than ideal, but it's not a red flag. He had the best vertical jump of any interior defensive lineman here. 36 and a half inch vertical, which is shocking. Yeah, I told you. The average is 305. At defensive tackle, jumping 29 inches, he was 293. Jumping 36 and a half inches.

[Bucky Brooks]

That's lower body explosiveness. That's just getting off the ball.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He was tied for second in his broad jump, tied for third best in his 40, ran a 4, 8, 2 and fourth best in his short shuttle. Pretty cool. Awesome.

[Bucky Brooks]

I think this defensive tackle class is a little better than maybe I had anticipated.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't know that it is.

[Bucky Brooks]

A month ago, Really?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't know that it is.

[Bucky Brooks]

Really?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think there's four guys that you

[Bucky Brooks]

think could go in the first round.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I don't know that they do. Lee Hunter had enough.

[Bucky Brooks]

I don't think they do. Four guys do you think could go on the fourth in the first round?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

There's the interior defensive line. If you're watching on Netflix, if you're watching on Spotify, and we appreciate everyone who's watching, we're here all week. Tip your waiters. Lee Hunter had. Lee Hunter is one of the favorite people in this. So, like, I hate to do this. He's one of the great, like, entertaining, good guys. Fun. Works his butt off. Had an. And I'm not saying these numbers are going to definitely keep him out of the first round, but there were like, is he. Is he there? Some people I talked to think he's the best interior defensive lineman in the class. Others, yeah, he's third or fourth. Right. When you go out and have red flags flying in a hurricane like red flags. And your workouts all day long. It doesn't help. His 21 and a half inch vertical. I just told you Grayson Halton had 36 and a half inches. There's a difference there. He's six, three and a half, 318 pounds. So he's a lot bigger. He's carrying more weight. But the cutoff is 24 and a half. I've done a lot of studies. Okay. Something below that, it's like, it's. It's like.

[Bucky Brooks]

Oh, Clean it up with the pro day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay. How do you clean up a vertical jump?

[Bucky Brooks]

You jump higher.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Bucky Brooks]

I mean. What do you mean? You just jump higher.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Maybe you can clean up that cold by.

[Bucky Brooks]

Oh, God, hopefully by Friday. I don't even know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Eight, four.

[Bucky Brooks]

Thanks for your concern.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Eight, four, broad jump. Bismol.

[Bucky Brooks]

I love this stuff, though. I love it. Why don't take them? I'll take them.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Bucky Brooks]

I'll take them.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Because when I'm watching against. When I'm with. Watching him against Oregon and he's blowing up play after play, and I'm seeing a kid out there who's having fun and a guy who is actually jumping where these other guys are hiding and not jumping. Give me Lee Hunter. Dude, watch the tape. Go back to the tape. And five, one eight at that size is pretty good. It's fine.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Tucker just gave us the 45 minute signal.

[Bucky Brooks]

I thought we were 45 after the edges. He's sick, too, by the way. Gave it to me.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm sick, but I'm. I'm tougher. He's bigger and could beat me up in a fight, but I'm definitely sick and I'm definitely tougher. And Marissa's starting to wonder why it is you and I have the exact same cold this week, and it is questionable. All right, let's do some nudge, guys. By nudge. At this point, every idiot with a. With two thumbs and a. And a phone and some service knows half the draft class that wants to.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So we're not nudging that people don't know and we recognize. But I do find it interesting when I hear the conversations. I talk to some coaches, not nearly as many as Scott and general managers, but, like, they're just like I told you I talked to head coach in December and, like, looking at a few quarterbacks, but. But like, they got other jobs to do and they kind of dive in. Right. And. But they become an integral part of this process. We talk to all these GMs and they all mention. Right. So there's some guys now that are maybe eight, nine players deep or I've kind of skimmed through all these. They're not as deep into this process. So when I say nudge guys in this context, I know sitting up in those. It used to be in, in the stands, but it's now up in those suites. Right. 32 NFL teams. I've got their own little suite and they're ready to rock and roll that. There's some coaches like, who's that guy?

[Bucky Brooks]

Right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Like, what do we have on him? Yeah, I watched a little bit of what I didn't know he was going to. Did you know he was gonna. Yeah, did you know he was gonna. And the scouts are. Oh, I knew he was going to do. So I want to go through some of those guys. Okay. At linebacker Caleb Elams, Orr was a player. We actually talked to some folks getting ready for the Senior bowl and there was some excitement about him. Elam's Orr is a guy who can rush and can cover and has a very versatile background. He had an awesome workout six two two thirty four. He ran a four four seven came. He was. How about that? Your name's up there by the way, after the unofficials and you're tied with. With Arvel Reese and Sonny Styles.

[Bucky Brooks]

Like, who's this kid?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And they. Oh, Magic. If I'm Moore Elamore, I am going back and like, oh, really? Check the. Check the two. The two faces of the draft from Ohio State. Their four seven unofficial turn to a four six and mine stayed at four seven.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Who's in charge of that, right? Anyway, he's. He was one of the fastest now. Now granted he's 6262-234. Those guys were 64 and 65240 plus. But he had an awesome workout 159 was the fourth fastest and is among the fat, you know, right up there. The fastest every single year and had the second best vertical jump behind Sonny Stiles with. With the 40 inch vertical. That's a name to get to know and to go check out more tape on because we talked to some people who are like, he's an intriguing day. Three cat, you know?

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Who do you got?

[Bucky Brooks]

What about Zane Durant from Penn State? Yeah, 61290 shorter arms, 31 and 78 inch arms, big hands though. 10 and 5 eighths random. The fastest 40 for the defensive tackles. 4, 7, 5. What's interesting to me about this is okay, he has a 1 6, 6 split. And I want to look at other undersized defensive tackles, especially guys not name Aaron Donald because I hate when people do that collage. Cancy, who was a first round pick in 2023 for 19th overall. 61281. So about nine pounds. Shorter. Same like range of arm length with shorter arms. 30 and 5, 8. So lighter. He had a 164, 10 yard split. Pretty damn close now. Can't see. Had better production, better tape. But I think when you're looking at Zane Durant, you're looking at that frame and how you. He's got to be explosive. He definitely helped himself. He had a big day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. It got me thinking. First of all, it got me thinking what. What was. What was Aaron Donalds. Was it like a 1, 5 9?

[Bucky Brooks]

I'll find it right now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Find it right now, please. Malachi Lawrence may have had the best day ever. If you want. If you want to hear.

[Bucky Brooks]

Talked about him about a month ago, right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep. And you really liked him on tape. I did some tape. Limited, but I can't wait to get back to it. 10 1/2 sacks. 2023 at Louisville. Transferred. Only played nine games in 2024. I got to dig on like what happened there. But he breaks back out in 2025. Team high, seven and a half sacks. Big week at the East West Shrine. Tape's good. From what I've seen, you like it too. You've watched more of it, if we're being totally honest. My gosh. He had a 40 inch vertical. Six, four and a half, 253. He's bigger than those other guys. Had a 40 inch Arvell Reese and Sunny style.

[Bucky Brooks]

Most guys lean. They get leaner after the All Star Games. They didn't want to turn us into a track meet. Six pounds heavier than he was at the east west game.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. 33. 33 and 5. 8 inch arm length. Dan told me not to say a lot of numbers. He had the best. Best broad jump, second best vertical jump, second best 40 and second best 10 yard split, which is absurd in his size.

[Bucky Brooks]

Everything.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Do you see everything?

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah. Aaron Donald 163.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And what our guy would Durant go.

[Bucky Brooks]

He went 168. Let's make sure of that. 166. So 163 for Donald, 164 for can see and then 166 for Durant.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

First round.

[Bucky Brooks]

Here we go.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm kidding. Yeah, let's wrap up there.

[Bucky Brooks]

I need to apologize to everyone who's seen this. This Hopefully. Hopefully most people just listen to this

[Daniel Jeremiah]

one because that's not.

[Bucky Brooks]

Actually. You should check it out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I actually think I'm in the majority on this one. I. I think it. It is unbelievable. Believably entertaining, and I think it, like, it just adds to it. Get healthy for tomorrow. Tomorrow we have

[Bucky Brooks]

def.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, you had defensive backs tomorrow and tight ends. Yeah, and tight ends. That's right. Defensive backs and tight ends. We'll be here tomorrow night. Check out the McShay report. We're gonna. I'm gonna keep Dan up all night long. His hat's already sideways. And, yeah, we're gonna have some deep dive in there. And we've got another GM interview that we are. That we are thrilled to have. And honestly, this is a guy we. Dan Morgan and I were talking about it before we sat down. We have run like, we have passed each other, said hi, stepped each other up, like, know the same people. He even said there were, like, a bunch of times he was at the same game. I'm on the silent. We just never connected. And I'm so glad we did, because this guy is just football. I've been blessed to spend a lot of time, like, as friends and, like, watching tape and, like, all of it with guys like Chris Spielman and Teddy Bruski, two guys I consider good friends. Right. This guy's cut from the same cloth. And, I mean, that is the greatest compliment. Like, Officer Gentleman, I'm sure would rip your heart out if he could, but care so deeply. And you can tell the level of ball knowing and how to sniff out the bs, which is an underrated quality in this. So I hope you enjoy this interview as much as we did, and. And. And we'll be back tomorrow night. Thanks. I'm excited about this one. Dan Morgan's with us, the general manager for the Carolina Panthers, and appreciate you being here. We haven't been able to, like, ever catch up.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. Crazy. All these years took this long.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So we're both excited to have you here, selfishly. Here's where I want to start.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think you got a little bit of a foundation on what talent looks like back in those Miami teams.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What was that? And you were. Your last year was 2000, right. You were drafted 2001. For those who don't know, I think the 11th pick overall, right?

[Scott Fitterer]

Correct.

[Bucky Brooks]

Did you run a 4, 5, 6 at 240 pounds?

[Scott Fitterer]

You know what? They have it. They have it in there at a 4, 5, 6, but I was actually, like, a 4, 4, 8, no, it's actually a little faster. Yeah, a little faster. 4, 4, 8. But what was that mad house like down in Miami? Yes, it was. It was a lot of fun. I'll tell you what, one on ones were the worst because there was nobody that you could pick out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's what I'm saying.

[Scott Fitterer]

If you were like sore or you had like a hamstring that was a little tight, Edron James was back there. Clinton, Portis, Najee Davenport, I mean, James Jackson, like, the list goes like on and on, you know, really in that locker room. It's just like a locker room full of alpha males. So, like, if you're weak, you're not surviving there. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, the competition at practice every day, I mean, it was unreal.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I've got to believe that ages being around that town, but probably more so. Just the compete level has been part of the foundation for where you are today.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Not all, not oftentimes, your star players translate well to, you know, the GM role in any sport. Like Michael Jordan we talked about recently, you know, so. So I'm always intrigued by that. I want, if you don't mind, walk us through maybe some people who are influential, like, you got to get done with your NFL career and you decide, I stay. I want to stay in this game.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I want to kind of pursue this. Who were the people? Where were the. Stop. Like, tell us. Kind of some critical moments in people that helped shape who you are.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. So it, at first, it's started out like I got done playing. I really didn't do anything for two years. And then Trent Kershner, who's a scout with the Seattle Seahawks, he was with me in Carolina as a scout when I was a player, and he called me up and he asked me if I'd have any interest in being a scout, doing scouting. They had like an internship that was open up. I hadn't given it much thought before, so initially I was like, yeah, let me think about it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And so it's not something you wanted to do, like during your playing career.

[Scott Fitterer]

I really never thought of. Just never really came to my mind that it was a thing, to be honest with you. Like, I just. I got done playing and I was just like, all right, what am I gonna do now?

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

You know, I mean, it's tough, you know, as a former player, like, you try to figure out what you wanna do and, you know, you can be lost a little bit. So that phone call, like, luckily happened and I actually wasn't gonna go out there. So credit to my wife, she's like, what's it gonna hurt to, you know, just go out and see if you like it, if you like it, then you can do it.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

So, so I go out there, go out there, do an internship. I'm driving players to the airport, I'm doing all the grunt work, you know, that you do.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's kind of wild.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know, yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

And you gotta, you know, you really, you gotta put any ego that you have. I'm not a big ego guy.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So.

[Scott Fitterer]

So you put that to the side and you just do what you gotta do. And I loved it. So the next, the following year, John Schneider, he hired me as a full time scout. And I get out there, first game, first game that we played, they gave me the advance. So I did all the advanced scouting out there and I sat down. I never wrote a report before or anything. So I was like, I was in the office till like midnight writing reports and I was just like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? What did I get myself into here? I was like, it was, it was a lot of work, but I love it. I love what I do. I love the people that I work with. And again, like, I think being a former player, I think the biggest thing is, you know, to your point, putting your ego to the side and surrounding yourself with a good team of people that are smarter than you. And John Schneider always told me, he's like, if you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

So I always took that from him. And yeah, he's definitely really influential on me. Him, Joe, Shane, Brandon Bean, all of my good friends. So they're all guys that really helped me get into this and, you know, get me to where I'm at right now.

[Bucky Brooks]

You know, we just talked about it a little bit. You worked your way up. You also went through this process as a player. We, we hit on all these things. What makes me, what's interesting to me is what would you change about the combine or the pre draft process if you could like going just the, the understanding you have it, I think is a little unique compared to other people. Is there something you like? We could do something better here or we could switch this up a little bit.

[Scott Fitterer]

I think they do a pretty good job here, you know, for the most part. Obviously, like interviewing a guy at 9 o' clock at night, 11 o' clock at night is not ideal. You know, these guys, they're tired, they went through a long day so, like, you're usually not getting, like, the best version of these guys. So I would say maybe like, doing the interviews, like, a little earlier in the day, you know, those first couple days and getting it out of the way, as opposed to everybody finishing interviews at 11 o' clock and being tired. And so it'd be nice to get guys when they're fresh and energized. But other than that, I think they hold a really good venue here. I think they do a good job. We get to see the guys run around, we get to interview them. It's really the first time after watching the guy all year long that you're able to sit down and be like. Put a face to a name and be like, all right, cool. Like, it's cool. Like seeing Caleb Downs walk in and Sonny Stiles walking in the room last night, he looks pretty good, huh? Yeah, I would say prototype.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

But, yeah, those guys walking in the room and just getting to know them for the first time and, you know, some of them, they just blow you away and. And then on the other side, like, some of them aren't really what you thought they were. So interesting, you know, it's. It's 20 minutes. It's a small snapshot, but I think it's all valuable and it's all just, you know, a little piece of the puzzle that you're trying to put together before you draft them.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

With all the GMs who have been kind enough to come sit down with us, we kind of want to get differing processes right on the quarterbacks, and that's what everyone wants to talk about, and we'll talk about it for a minute and then we'll move on for a bit. But you were assistant GM when. When you guys drafted Bryce Young in 2023.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So take us through that process and maybe like the first report you saw and the first interaction and kind of leading up, were there moments where it started to sway? We're like, this is the guy. Or just kind of walk us through that from a scouting perspective.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. So obviously, you know, during the summertime, you know, that's a big time for me where I sit down and I get ahead of the, you know, the season that's coming upon us. So I'm sitting there. I never watched Bryce Young before and evaluating his tape. And obviously the first thing that sticks out is he's not the biggest guy, so you really don't know what to expect. But as you watch his tape and, you know, you see the way he processes, the way the Way he can escape the pocket and make plays with his legs. I was just, like, blown away by the tape that I watched. I was like, dang, this dude is pretty damn good.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

So obviously we go into that next year. He's on the radar. I went and saw him play against Texas that first game of the season, I think it was. So I was at that game and freaking.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He was awesome.

[Scott Fitterer]

Let him down the field for the game winning drive. Like, made some, like, unbelievable throws. So I'm like, all right, this kid's pretty good. And then went and saw him play again against LSU a little later that season and same thing. I think they lost that game, but he played unreal. Like, he escaped the pocket. He made like a sweet throw down there. And obviously, like, I fell in love with the kid. And then you hear, like, the school talk about him and the type of, you know, type of guy he is, the type of worker he is, all those things that, you know, led up to us drafting him. But, you know, you go through the process with him and you sit down with him, you can't help but be impressed. I mean, he's mature. He knows X's and O's better than any quarterback that I've ever sat with. I mean, he's unbelievably smart.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

Like, just super smart. You can put a lot on his plate and, you know, the guy just loves football. And those are the type of guys that we want, you know, especially at the quarterback position. You want, you know, those guys that are just like, they live it. Like, that's really all they care about is just they're obsessed with being great. And I felt that with Bryce, like, through the whole process. And, yeah, he's just a great young man, great family. And, you know, we spent so much time with him through the whole process. And, you know, at the end of it, it just. It became like an easy, like, hey, we gotta take this guy. Like, this guy is everything that we want other than the measurables. But he's tough and he's got ice in his veins. So it's hard to find that at the quarterback position.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Here's where your story gets fascinating to me, right? All of those great, wonderful things. And I agreed with you on all of them, right? And then Bryce comes in and it's kind of a nightmare. Start with everything that goes on that first season. You're elevated to the general manager's seat. You've got decisions to make. You've got a young quarterback who, you know, early struggles, showed a little Promise. But I don't know, it feels like a crossroads when you come into this. This leadership position.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then you go and pull Dave Canales. Right. Amazing job with Baker Mayfield, I think it was in Tampa Bay. And you have a. You've. You guys go back to Seattle.

[Scott Fitterer]

We work together in Seattle, so we were two offices down from each other,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

so it probably wasn't that big of a reach. And I think you kind of targeted the guy you wanted, and it made sense because you need a guy who can come in and help your young quarterbacks. Had a little early. Had some early struggles, but take us through. I'm always curious, like, what's going on in your mind? Like, my gosh, I just got this job. We got this going on. Like, how are you attacking that process?

[Scott Fitterer]

I think kind of the same way I did as a player. Like, you're up for the challenge. Like, I knew it was going to be a challenge, but I also knew that I have to have a really good team around me. So bringing in a guy like Brand Tillis, you know, as a cap guy, and he's just like a great sounding board for me. Hiring Dave Canales, hiring people around you that you trust, people that want to win, they're there for the right reasons. Everybody wanting to win, moving in the same direction, and I think that's what it takes to win. You know, you have to have not just those guys, but you have to have everybody in the building moving in the same direction, everybody wanting to win and putting the work in, you know, because it's all about the work. You're not going to accomplish anything if you don't put that work in. So that's all we're about here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then you have the draft that you have this past year. Right. 20, 25. And it feels to me, obviously, Tetaroa McMillan is the standout, the star that everyone knows, an offensive line rookie of the year. But when I, like, sat back down, even today, just getting ready to talk to you, it feels like one of those foundation drafts where just about top to bottom, guys that are good players have some versatility, multiple roles, showed promise. Continue.

[Bucky Brooks]

You know. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Is that how you felt coming. Coming out of this, this year?

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, definitely. We felt good about the draft class that we put together, and there was a lot of work that went into that, identifying the type of guys that we. We just talked about and all the guys that we try to draft and everybody around the league tries to draft it as guys that love football, guys that just. They'll do Anything to win. They love their teammates. They're great in the locker room. So we're looking for those type of guys. And I felt like during the draft process, we identified these guys, and the draft really fell in place for us to where, like, we literally, like, took the guys that we wanted, like, almost in order, which.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Don't get used to that.

[Scott Fitterer]

I know, I know. But, you know, our analytics team, we have. We have a great analytics team, and we were able to do, like, mock drafts before. This keeps coming up before the draft. And, like, it's great how.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What goes into your mock drafts?

[Scott Fitterer]

It's like a consensus board. So, like, all the top mock drafts, like, are on the Internet and then mixed with our grades. And I don't know how he puts the formula together.

[Bucky Brooks]

Data points.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, It's. It's unbelievable how accurate it can be.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Put more emphasis in our mock draft, I assume. Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

I mean, but, like, your guys, like yours will be in there, like, all the major players in the NFL, their mocks will be in that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's pretty cool.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, it's pretty cool. So, like, I can sit there, like, I'll probably do, like, five, six, seven mock drafts a day, just sitting in my office.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's not a bad process. Right. And.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, and it's like, it really helps you on draft day because you can put yourself in almost any scenario.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

And be like, okay, if this guy's on the board and this guy's on the board, who am I taking?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So it's like studying tape for the week.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Game week.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. It's pretty sweet.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So you win the NFC south for the first time in a decade, I think.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Have that. That draft, things are moving in the right direction, but, you know, you're not there yet.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's next?

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, I mean, I said it in my, you know, end of season press conference is we got to put the work in. You know, nothing's going to. We're not entitled to anything. Nothing's going to be given to us. We got to put the work in. We got to identify the guys, which is what we're doing down here. We're interviewing guys. It's just one step closer to where we want to go in identifying players that can come in and help the Carolina Panthers. So we just got to keep finding those type of guys that love ball, are competitors, tough, have a passion for the game, and I think if we get as many of those guys in our locker room as we can, then we're going to be successful. So. But we got to put that work in.

[Bucky Brooks]

It's standing out to me how many times you're talking about, you know, not physical traits. You're talking about guys who love ball. And how do you. I mean, we talk about it. You have a quick interview.

[Scott Fitterer]

You get.

[Bucky Brooks]

You get this quick interview at the Combine.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Get maybe a quick interview with the Senior Bowl. Have you guys refined your process to make sure that we're taking advantage of that time? And one other thing that I want to kind of. I don't know if this is a big deal or not. I want to kind of get your feel for it. We're talking to some area scouts at the. At the Senior bowl, and they were talking about how the transfer portal was making it a little harder for them to get a feel for a kid because you. You walk in, you go to the strength, conditioning code and say, right. What do you think about this guy? I don't know. He's been here for 10 minutes, man.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

You know what I mean? Like, I don't have a feel for. I didn't see him come up as a sophomore and struggle and then really works tail off and, you know, that whole story.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Is it. Is there anything to that? And then, like, kind of. What's the process to make sure you're getting that?

[Scott Fitterer]

The nil thing. I've been asked about that a couple times.

[Bucky Brooks]

That.

[Scott Fitterer]

That, to me, that's going to help us more than it's going to hurt us. And the reason I say that is we're going to be able to get a snapshot of what this guy looks like with money.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

Does he do with the money? How does he manage living recklessly? Is he partying all hours of the night?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Marty Schottenheimer once said to me at espn, he said the hardest. The hardest thing about evaluating, because everyone knows he's tall, he's big, he's strong. Is. Is. What's. What's this young man going to do with more money, more free time, and more fame than he's ever had before? And quite honestly, that the money part, you're starting to figure out before they get to you. Yeah. And. And the fame in today's game, you know, so that's.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, definitely. And being a former player, like, I've been in the locker room with guys and, you know, I'm looking for that. So, like, are you going out? You, like, blowing your money on cars? Are you, like, you know, out at the club all night doing everything? So, like, it does give you a snapshot of. Of what that guy is.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

So what was the question?

[Bucky Brooks]

Just about the interview process. Oh, yeah. Do you guys have a refined. Like, you have.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

How do you sift through it all?

[Scott Fitterer]

Because you have.

[Bucky Brooks]

What do you have during a combat? 15 minutes? Is that what it is? 20 minutes?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Zooms. And you have the 30. 30 visits.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

And you have all that. But, like, I would say what you do is you go back and you watch the tape. Like, when you talk about passion for the game, like, that has passion for the game. He's not dogging it to the ball. He's not. He's given the extra effort as a blocker. If he's receiver, linebacker, running to the ball every single play, balls to the wall. Like, the tape will tell you a lot. And then when you meet the guy, it's like, okay, like, does this match up with, like, the type of personality that I see on tape? And more times than not, I feel like it does. So we had some guys in the room last night, you know, to where I'm like, this dude's a dog. And then, like, he comes in and he sits there, and you talk to him. You're just like, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There he is.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep. Yeah. Didn't take long.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That leads. I like to finish this with five kind of. I don't say quick hitters, but just kind of run through them. And that leads me to a question, and I'll actually start with this. Did you bring kind of John Schneider and that. That. That grading scale and then kind of some of those philosophies with you?

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, we. I kind of switched it up a little bit and just kind of, you know, as I went from Seattle to Buffalo and then eventually back to Carolina, like, you. You take things. And John always told me he's like, take things that you like that I do, and then write down the things you don't. And same thing with Brandon. So, like, I was able to see it done a couple different ways. And then, you know, I'm gonna have my own style and. And come in and tweak it. Yeah, yeah, and tweak it a little bit. So.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So that leads me to the first question. How many players typically, on average are in your board when the draft kicks off on Thursday night?

[Scott Fitterer]

You know, I think we're anywhere from. It could be as low as, like, 115 players. It can be as high as, like, 160, 170 guys. So I think at the end of the day, it just depends on how deep the draft is. Yeah, usually, like, the Seventh round guys are guys that are kind of free agents, but they're guys that, like, you really want as a free agent that you would pay money for. So, like, if you're competing at the end of the draft.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

And you don't want to compete, you know, to pay the guy, like, you know, money at the end of the draft, then you just draft them. So.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

A lot of those numbers get bolstered by that seventh round usually.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So I think for you guys, because we've Talked to some GMs where it's closer to like, 200, it seems like you, instead of turning a name upside down, it's to going kind of like, take.

[Scott Fitterer]

I mean, we just put a microscope on the draft board and we're like, this guy's either what we want or he's not what we want.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So let's.

[Scott Fitterer]

So let's just, like, clean him off the board. Like, he's not our type of guy. Like, he doesn't love football or he has bad football character or bad personal character. And it's like, I'm really not in the business of messing around and, like, putting anybody's jobs on the line. Right. And putting a guy in our locker room that, you know, the guys will come up and I have a really good relationship with all our players, and, like, I don't want them coming up to me being like, why'd you draft this dude?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

So I kind of hold myself accountable, too.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You get this job and it's such so different. And then you go from playing and then go from, as you talked about earlier in your career, doing the grunt work, and then you finally rise to this position and you kind of knew what to expect because you're assistant GM and you're around it. But when you get the job after a little while, when you look back now or even today, what's your favorite thing still to do?

[Scott Fitterer]

Watch tape. I'm in my office. If I'm not downstairs talking to the nutrition people and the trainers, I'm in my office, I'm watching tape. I watch countless guys on tape. I make sure everybody on our board I have a written report on, I know exactly who they are. So on draft day, I'm going in there and I have full confidence. Like, when we say we're picking this guy, I know this guy. Right. I don't have to depend on anybody else. And I have a great team around me, and, like, everybody's opinions matter, which is what I want. And people can challenge me. People can, you know, give Me, give me their point of view, and I'm going to look into it, and, like, maybe I miss something or maybe the analytics see something that challenges one of

[Bucky Brooks]

your scouts ever swayed you and said, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, I love that. Absolutely.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

Absolutely.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right, Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

We're a team. Yeah, we're a team. And that's, you know, no different than on the field. Like, we're a team, and, like, everybody's got to say, like, yeah, we put it all out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

If we didn't, then what were we doing? Yeah, I think, yeah, you got to have it that way. If you don't have it that way, then, you know, I don't have all the answers, and I know that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right. So I've asked all the GMs, and it's interesting to get this answer. What's the. The part of your job that not least favorite or that you can't stand? Well, what's the one part that, like, pulls you away from what you want to be doing? Watching tape and that sort of stuff that maybe has surprised you as the GM or whatever? It is something that you just. It's. It's not your favorite, let's put it that way.

[Scott Fitterer]

I would say, like, credit to John Schneider, credit to Brandon Beane, credit to Joe Shane. They involved me in every little detail. So, like, when I get. When I took over this job, like, I felt really prepared. Really, Like, I knew. I knew what I was gonna have to deal with. I knew I was gonna have to talk to the owner all the time. I knew that I was gonna have to put fires out and things were gonna come to my desk that were unexpected. So credit to them. They did a great job involving me in, like, every talk. John would bring me in, even as a pro scout, and, like, tell me what the owner said and, like, hey, you're gonna have to deal with this someday. So that's cool. They did a great job preparing me, so they're definitely mentors to me that, you know, I wouldn't be here without them. You still talk to them, I'm sure, all the time.

[Bucky Brooks]

That's great.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, they're my guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Tell me about a time that you failed at something important and what you learned from it.

[Scott Fitterer]

I would say, you know, as a player, I've had my failures, you know, getting hurt. You know, when I got done playing, I opened up a restaurant, and that didn't do good. And I've been through adversity as a kid, growing up in my life, you know, in terms of, like, specific stuff, like, you know, injury wise, as a player, like, it sucked getting hurt all the time and not being able to maximize my career. And, you know, I think what I. What I see a lot of these guys nowadays, like, adversity is going to come in your life and to be able to deal with that, like, it's going to only make you stronger and tougher as a person and. And it'll humble you as well. So. And I think that's the attitude that we have to have, you know, just in life in general and to be successful with what we do here is just come in with a humble mentality and everybody put your egos to the side and let's do what's best for the organization. So that's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's a hard thing, right? Like, yeah, I think it comes with maturity. And for some people it never comes. It feels like. And some people, it comes earlier, but, like attacking adversity.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

When you, like, kind of tells you who a person is.

[Scott Fitterer]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Like it does when you're down. Like, we all get our ass kicked. Yeah. All get knocked out. We all do. We've all had it different things, personal life, health, whatever, you know, all of it business wise. And to figure out it'll have that click. Like, you know what? I'm good. Let's go.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yep, exactly. And we look for that in the players here, you know, like, even, like in all the background. Like, we want players, and I learned this from Pete Carroll and John Schneider. Like, we would look for guys that have been through adversity.

[Bucky Brooks]

Right.

[Scott Fitterer]

We want guys that have, like, they've had to overcome a lot because inevitably you're going to have to deal with adversity when you get to the NFL. Like, it's not going to go perfect

[Daniel Jeremiah]

for some of the big busts over the years that's coming out of the draft. They're the guys that people call them entitled. Yeah. But like, guys that just never had do. Yeah, they were kind of pushed. Here you go. Right now.

[Bucky Brooks]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's interesting, right?

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, definitely.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right. Most important question we ask. I'm kind of worried about this answer with you. I'm going to be honest because you're ripped. You're a former player. You're in the nutrition and all that. Talk to me about the drafts spread. Is it important to you? Are you in charge of it?

[Scott Fitterer]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Walk me through it.

[Scott Fitterer]

You're talking about the food.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The food draft weekend.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. So we do. So I'm a big sushi guy. So everyone Like, a sushi guy that comes in and he makes, like, on the first day of the draft, it's not every day, right? But the first day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Now we're talking.

[Bucky Brooks]

So he's making the rolls right there.

[Scott Fitterer]

Makes the rolls.

[Bucky Brooks]

Oh, man.

[Scott Fitterer]

And it's phenomenal.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah. It's been that since I took over.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So can you eat during the draft or, like. Or do you. Are you one of those guys? It's over, then you want, like, a big meal? Like, how's it go for you?

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, I don't like eating a ton in general, but I'll eat the sushi, though. I'll eat the sushi. And then, like, I'm big, like, into, like, mints and, like, Werther's, like, during the draft just to kind of, like, keep myself. Our owner, David Tepper, always messes with me because I'll have, like, a bunch of rappers all over the place. He's like, jesus, how many of those did you eat? So, yeah, he's always messing with me about that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's awesome. I appreciate your time.

[Scott Fitterer]

Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

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