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The McShay Show
Day Six From the Combine: Carnell Tate, Jeremiyah Love, Taylen Green, and more
01:47:21
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- [00:07]
Daniel Jeremiah
Big guys running fast. That was the theme on Saturday from the NFL scouting combine as the offensive skill position player workouts are in the books. We also have got a great interview for you in Chris Ballard, the GM from the Indianapolis Colts in just 54 days until the NFL Draft. I think you're feeling better, but men, you good?
- [00:26]
Bucky Brooks
I'm great, man.
- [00:28]
Daniel Jeremiah
Tucker roll that beat. Wide receivers, running backs, quarterbacks, all worked out on Saturday. It's always the most fun day at the combine, right? Let's get the. I don't know, it's not the biggest. As you look at downtown Indianapolis right outside of our hotel as you make your way towards Lucas Oil. It's been a fun week. I think you're probably excited to get home, maybe get nursed up by Iris a little bit. But Indianapolis is going to miss you. And then. And honestly, today was a lot of fun, man. We're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. The they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list@scout motors.com just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit Scout Motors.com for for details. It was interesting in that I think a lot of the best performances came from guys that we expected to work out well, but they kind of blew our socks off with what they did.
- [02:11]
Bucky Brooks
It's kind of the theme here. Right.
- [02:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
And then some of the elite guys either didn't work out or didn't put up the biggest numbers. Now Jeremiah Love is excluded. And we'll get to the running backs in a little while. I want to start with the wide receivers. I kind of lumped this group into three categories. Okay. Okay. There were the four, if you will, but really, truly three. To start this thing out. There was the the top three. And that's Carnell, Tate, Makai, Lemon, Jordan, Tyson, Ohio State, usc, Arizona State, respectively. Okay. Those are the top three hundreds. About every team's boards. They're the top three on our boards. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- [02:47]
Bucky Brooks
Nope.
- [02:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
And then there's the second group of big wide receivers. The X's big, you know, X wide receivers or maybe even big Z flankers. Right. And that's Denzel Boston. As you see there, from Washington. I think we've wsu, but it's from Washington, Malachi Fields, Chris Brazel II from Tennessee, Ted Hurst from Georgia State, Chris Bell from Louisville, and Elijah Surratt from Indiana. Then we've got this third group, which are more your Z flanker slots. I don't want to say undersized because even you start with Omar Cooper. He's just over 6ft 196. But these are the guys that aren't checking in at 6, 2 and above. And you know, KC Concepcion, Zachariah branch, Antonio Williams, Jeremy Bernard, Deion Burks. Then there are also this fourth group that we'll get to at the end of guys that maybe weren't in our top 15 receivers that we knew were going to work out well. But like, now you got to go back and check the tape. But let's start at the top with that group I talked about. Jordan Tyson did not run or jump.
- [03:51]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [03:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Makai Lemon did not run or jump. Did some on the field stuff, looked pretty good.
- [03:58]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [03:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
The only result we got from those top three in terms of the 40 short, shuttle, 3 cone, vertical, broad, all those. The testing that the wide receivers and all these players have done was from Carnell Tate.
- [04:15]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [04:15]
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- [04:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
And what's interesting is, I think because he's an Ohio State receiver and because these Ohio State receivers that we think have good speed but not elite speed sometimes come out and just blow the doors off of this thing. And sometimes the guys who don't have great speed wait until the pro day and then they go run there. And everyone likes to joke in the league and I don't think it's really the case anymore, but it's like a 39 yard downhill 40 at Ohio State because they always run these unbelievable times. The fact of the matter is they just train really well and they're a bunch of the elite, elite athletes, and that's what it is. So when Carnell Tate said, you know what, I'm going to go, I'm going to work out the position drills, I'm not going to do the jumps and the shuttles and all the other things, but I am running a 40 year in Indy. And then you add to the fact that we've had just about every group so far this year, starting with the defensive linemen to the linebackers, to the defensive backs, to the tight ends and maybe the running backs. It was close. All were the fastest group in the history of the combine. So we're all like, here we go. Carnell Tate, it's gonna be. Is it gonna be a three after that four point or is it gonna be a four with like a one or a two, right? Yeah. Then he comes out and runs a four, five, four.
- [06:00]
Bucky Brooks
How do you feel about it?
- [06:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
He ran a four, five, four in that first run. And even. And I noticed the same thing that DJ and Rich Eisen and I forget which GM was in. Oh, it was Brandon Bean, I think was in. They were all like, oh, he kind of looked like he. He got off kilter with his first four or five steps. So he's going to run a second one. So. All right. It'll be fine. He'll run the four fours. Runs a four, five, four. So he's a four, five, four guy. Right. And so everyone's kind of quiet about it. And Bean had the great line. Like. Yeah, he's kind of slow, man. I don't know. You know? And I promise you, as the teams that's drafting towards the end of the first round and is desperately needing a wide receiver. And it was perfect comedic timing and like. Right. But it's kind of. It's the shared sentiment in the league, like, I hope people knock him for that.
- [06:47]
Bucky Brooks
I would love for people to think he's slow.
- [06:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
Exactly. I think people are. Because we got so used to. With Sonny Stiles and Arvell Reese running the times they did and watching Kenyon Siddiq and Eli Stowers, like, all the top. And then earlier in the day, Jeremiah Love comes out and runs what, a 4, 3. 436. 436. Second best in the class at 212 pounds or whatever he was. And we'll get to Jeremiah Love stuff later. We got kind of comfortable with, oh, the best guy's gonna run somewhere in the four threes or four fours, right? Yeah. And he didn't. I don't care either.
- [07:28]
Bucky Brooks
No, no.
- [07:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
I want to give you this list. You ready? Go ahead. These are some similar guys in the league that have that. Similar guys in terms of stature. Right. Bigger receivers, and this is what they've run. And I think you know these names. CD Lamb, 450- Devonte Adams, 45-6-Hopkins. 4, 5, 7, T. Higgins. 4, 5, 9. Keenan Allen. 4, 5, 8. Like, I just, I think everyone in the league is hoping that a team is like, we're just not sure on him and let them fall to us. Because. Because it's just, it's asinine to think that that 40 yard dash, I told you, 455 is the number that just about everyone in the league, you know, that's really, really good runs at or under, and it's still not an excluding number. Right. So. So if you're waking up on Sunday expecting, and maybe there will be people that come out and be like, this really hurts him, you know, all of a sudden, Makai Lemon, this opens the door and Jordan Tyson or these wide receivers aren't it. It's just not the deal in the league. Like, people in the league just don't, don't worry about that number at all. And he'll go run at the pro day and he'll probably get low four fives or high four fours. And you know what? Maybe he won't run in the pro day at all. Maybe he'll just stand on that.
- [08:50]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [08:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Because at the end of the day, the information he'll get back from people in the league is, hey, man, we don't care. Maybe you shouldn't, like, maybe you shouldn't be training for a 40 anymore. Like, let's start working on all the things you need to be working on for the league.
- [09:03]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, I'm gonna talk out of both sides of my mouth for a second. The 10 yard split I didn't love 161 is a little high, but I just, I'm sorry. Four, five, three is just not a bad time. And two years ago we were talking about this kid maybe when he was gonna come out, why didn't he come
- [09:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
out last year and all?
- [09:18]
Bucky Brooks
It was a little bit of like, there were some whispers that he was speed deficient, that he was going to run a high number, that it wasn't
- [09:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
going to be in the four sixes. Yeah, I had heard four, five, three.
- [09:27]
Bucky Brooks
Today he answered every question you had about his speed in my mind. Did he blow you away? No. But he.
- [09:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
Was it officially a 4, 5, 3
- [09:35]
Bucky Brooks
or 4, 53 official?
- [09:36]
Daniel Jeremiah
453. Okay, so 453, it was 4. Yeah, that's right. It was 4, 5, 4 unofficial. And then when it came out official was 450.
- [09:41]
Bucky Brooks
And by the way, of all the
- [09:43]
Daniel Jeremiah
big dogs here, only one who did it. Only one who did it. Yeah.
- [09:47]
Bucky Brooks
And he didn't do the. I don't think he did the drills, but he's the only one who ran.
- [09:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
And I also want to remind people, in talking to executives in the league, like directors, GMs, he was at like, the top of the list in terms of interviews, football. And this isn't like, oh, we like the guy. He's really nice. He has a strong handshake. No, this is like putting him on, you know, talking to him about plays, regurgitation, talking to him about football, things, concepts, what he's reading in defenses, going back through some plays that he ran. They love his football intelligence. And that's not surprising because it's just about every Ohio State receiver comes out of there. And it's also not surprising because Brian Hartline does a better job who's now moved on as the head coach at UCF of developing wide receivers than any coach maybe in the history of college football. Okay. And his track record proves that.
- [10:38]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [10:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
So they all come to the league and they're all ready.
- [10:41]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [10:42]
Daniel Jeremiah
And I think there's no difference with Tarnell Tate. Now, the only thing I'll say to this is it does go back to the point that I made yesterday and I made in the newsletter and check out the newsletter if you can. It's the McShay report. Google it. Apparently we've got like a 20% off, 30% off sliding scale deal going on, very short period of time. But Google it, subscribe, and we got a lot of information. And Friday, on Sunday morning come. If you're watching this late Saturday night, then great. If you're watching Sunday morning, like most people that are sane and aren't waiting up till, you know, whatever hour. Yeah, that report is out with some more buzz and news that I've been hearing, especially in the quarterback position, which I think is some intriguing stuff that you might want to get involved with. So. But the only thing that I talked about yesterday when it came to, like, the real talk in the NFL was this year, it's even more so than what the media thinks. There are people in the league having real conversations in their rooms, Steve, about, hey, we got a running back named Love, a linebacker named Styles, a safety named Downs, and a guard named
- [12:02]
Bucky Brooks
I
- [12:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
Won't, I Won't, I Won't. That are maybe the four best players in this draft. And there's some really, really good receivers, but they're. We're deep at receiver and there's some really, really good edge rushers like David Bailey, like, like Arvell Reese. Now, teams are Considering basically, as an edge, like Ruben Bane. But they're not in that elite class. We get some really good offensive tackles like Maui Noah and Fano and Freeling. Right. But they're not elite. Elite. So are we just gonna. Are we just gonna take the best player? Cause as I talked to a couple different GMs, general managers, the guys making the final call, and both two different times out of multiple conversations we've had together or I've had privately, the phrase, am I gonna pass on a Hall of Famer? And I think they view it. And hall of Famers can come from anywhere in the draft. We've seen that.
- [13:02]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [13:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
But when you grade a guy up there, the goal is, I'm drafting a Hall of Famer.
- [13:09]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [13:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
And so I think the only thing you start to weigh in is when you talk about those four other guys, and maybe if you want to lump Reese in there as well. Am I going to pass on a Hall of Famer for a wide receiver who's really, really, really good, but maybe doesn't, like, didn't come in here and do Calvin Johnson stuff? And, you know, that's the only thing I'd say right.
- [13:27]
Bucky Brooks
When we talked about this. I feel like a month.
- [13:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
And specifically with, like, the. The Titans in four and the Giants at five, that's where I'm getting in the nitty gritty of all this. If a Carnell. If Carnell Tate, at his size, with his tape, with his development, with his pedigree, with where he comes from, came out and did run a 439 or
- [13:45]
Bucky Brooks
a 4,4 one, we'd have a different conversation.
- [13:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
Then the Titans or the Giants are looking to say, you know what? Like, maybe, you know, there's something like. But now it's. Now it kind of puts more pressure on. Am I going to take a flipping safety or a linebacker or a guard ahead of a wide receiver that we really need? I don't know. It's just. It's. It's interesting. It's only interesting to me because, like, just about every personnel director and general manager I've talked to in the last week, they're having these exact conversations.
- [14:23]
Chris Ballard
Yeah.
- [14:23]
Bucky Brooks
I mean, I like those top three a lot. I just feel like people have had them earlier than I would have had them going because of. For some of these reasons. I love Cornell Tate. He's not an elite athlete. I love Makai Lemon, and he did check the boxes in terms of some things today that we'll talk about in a second, but he's not your prototypical. Frame. Jordan Tyson has durability issues. Every one of those top three guys, you can start poking some holes in them. So when everyone's like, oh, they're all top 10. Top 10. I'm. I just didn't see that ever, really. But they're. They're still very good receiver prospects. So, yeah, when you're looking at these other guys, it's. It's. It's going to be tough to pass on a player that you feel that confident in in terms of, you know, Caleb Downs. Like, I just feel like you.
- [15:07]
Chris Ballard
You.
- [15:07]
Bucky Brooks
The ceiling is very. I mean, the floor is very high for those players.
- [15:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. What did you see from Makai Lemon?
- [15:15]
Bucky Brooks
He checked. He was the size that I wanted him to be. I mean, my thing was the Amon Ross St. Brown. Right. And Amon Ross St. Brown was five' 11 and a half, 197. And that's basically what Makai Lemon came in at. And so, I mean, I'm getting all kinds of heat on Twitter today about,
- [15:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
oh, what are you gonna say now, Mitch?
- [15:32]
Bucky Brooks
What are you gonna say now?
- [15:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
I want to run.
- [15:33]
Bucky Brooks
I want to see him run his 40. But I feel very comfortable with Makai Lemon in the middle of the first round right now. And do I think he's wide receiver one because he got the St. Brown numbers? No, I never thought that. But he's definitely in the top three group, and I definitely feel a lot more comfortable taking him in in the first round. I thought he might come in a 5, 10 or shorter.
- [15:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Are you weirded out by how he. How his. His gesturing at the podium?
- [15:55]
Bucky Brooks
I didn't love it, but, like, how much. How much weight do you put in that stuff? You know what I mean? Like, I'm just.
- [16:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
I just said, I know you uncomfortable.
- [16:02]
Bucky Brooks
Poke the bear. But, like, that. That is what it is. I mean, he's got to go out and run. Well, now he's got. You know, St. Brown was a 451 guy at his pro day. I don't think he ran at the combine. So hopefully he runs in that area and checks that box. But right now, he's trending in the right direction for me again. Always love the tape. Always loved the production. It's the frame that scared me.
- [16:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
I will say this. I mean, it's a viral thing on the Internet, and I get it. And we can laugh about it or we can overemphasize it and all those things. The fact of the matter is, again, talking to general managers in the league,
- [16:38]
Chris Ballard
the.
- [16:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
The interview process is going a Lot better for the other two, Tyson and Tate, than it is for Makai Lemon. And you know me like, I'm a lemon guy. Yeah, Right. But if. If you've got him in the same bucket, I promise you that that's probably the number. Remember talking to Dan Morgan, like, that's probably the number and every general manager. But just. That was kind of. It was so poignant with like, you know, there's certain things and you just got. But his play is that of a badass, right? His play going over the middle, breaking tackles, the toughness, the blocking, it's that of a grinder.
- [17:14]
Bucky Brooks
Pick a game. I mean, Illinois is like one that really jumps out to me, but pick a game.
- [17:18]
Daniel Jeremiah
How about the Iowa catch? Yeah, I mean, there's. Yeah. I mean, so. Yeah, so that part's interesting. But I'm just saying there are teams out there that may have them in a bucket, and there are teams out there that I've specifically talked to that appreciated what they got out of the interviews from Jordan Tyson and Carnell Tate more than they did from the Makai Lemon ones. So be that as it may, I want to. I want to transition, right? I want to transition to the big guys first because, my goodness, did we see some special stuff today, like excluding Malachi Fields, just about every one of the big receivers that we. That we. That I've been kind of high on and a couple more had awesome days. I want to start the. There you see Denzel Boston from Washington. Let's look at what he did, right? Denzel Boston from Washington didn't do a ton. He didn't do his. He didn't run a 40, didn't do the vertical jumps. But you know what he did? He had a 35 inch vertical. Sorry. He didn't do the broad jump. He had a 35 inch vertical at six, three and a half, 212 pounds with 32 inch arms and a 77 and three, eight inch arm wingspan. Right. You know what else that no one has reported on that I saw at least and no one talked about during coverage. You know, that son of a gun did it. Seems like he went like the bowels of Lucas oil. He ran a 428-short shuttle at that size.
- [18:51]
Bucky Brooks
I've been telling you, he gets in and out better than you think.
- [18:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
Interesting. It's a great number for his size.
- [18:59]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, it's a great number.
- [19:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's a great number. It's above average for any receiver and it's way above average when you do weight adjustment at six, three and a half, 212 pounds. So that was interesting. Malachi Fields is the other guy that's high on the list.
- [19:15]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [19:15]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right behind him. And I'll be quite honest, like, it wasn't an atrocious workout. This wasn't like waving red flags everywhere, but it certainly was a little bit eye opening. And I think as you're starting to talk about him with some of the Buzz, like late first maybe top 40 pick, I do think that this could factor in. And why is it you said? Well, you say the workout numbers aren't that. No. What happens in a room is as teams meet. And hopefully if you've watched in this GM series, you got a better sense of like what those meetings are like. And some of the guys we've talked to that have grew up under Dorsey.
- [19:53]
Bucky Brooks
Right, right.
- [19:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
And the process and the weeks long. And specifically I think it was, I think it was Ryan Poles who gave us a great like detailed of like could be 14 days, could be 17 days of grinding tape. Like 8 in the morning, 5 o', clock. We maybe break for half hour.
- [20:11]
Bucky Brooks
You don't stop watching a player until there's a consensus.
- [20:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
Don't stop watching a player till there's a consensus. So like with all that in mind, there's certain people that come into the room and it's not preconceived notion, it's. It's working their ass off for months upon months of watching tape and doing background checks and all that with a, with a strong opinion on what the, what the player is. And there's some guys out there that don't love Malachi Fields. There's some other guys I've talked to in the league that like, that really love him and like higher than maybe most people think. And I know his interviews have been awesome and I know there are wide receiver coaches that I've talked to that love his tempo of tempoing of routes and some of the little things he does. But there's this production factor that wasn't great at Notre Dame. It wasn't even phenomenal at Virginia. He's a, he's a, he's a quarterback convert. Right. Conversion guy. And now you've got these workout numbers that aren't awesome. He had a 4, 6, 1, which at his size, 6, 4 and a half, 218. It's not like, oh my gosh. But it's not ideal. And then especially as a guy who's got to get down the field and make big plays. And then there's the 163, which is a red flag number for the. What would you say Carnell Tates was? 161, 161, 162 and above is the number I've always kind of worked off of. So yeah, I just. And, but, but then again like the vertical jump of 38 inches is very good for his size. The 10, 4 broad jump is above average and he did a three cone of 6, 9, 8, which I see on tape with him. The body control, the change of direction. So all in all the 40 number is not what you wanted it to be in. The 10 yard split is even worse.
- [21:59]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [21:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
But the rest of it is really good or is good for his size, I should say.
- [22:04]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, I thought he tracked and caught the ball well during, during on field drills too. But yeah, I mean I think just to circle back to what you're saying, I think it's going to be. I'm not sure that's he's going to be a first round guy with those numbers.
- [22:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, no, I don't think so either. I think, I think it's top 50 is about the range somewhere. Like first 15 picks of the second round. Here's the other part. Chris Brazil the second didn't do a ton of stuff but the Tennessee wide receiver who I just, I love the way he operates. I love how he gets in and out of his breaks. You saw that Georgia game he single handedly took over. People in the league are afraid of Tennessee wide receivers. So everyone in the media will tell you I don't know that's exactly true. But I do think there are some things there with the wide splits and some of the route concepts that they do and then the proven track record of some guys who have gone early from Tennessee that makes it a little concerning. Okay. But I see in him 6:4, 198 pounds, long but lean frame. He didn't do the vertical, the broad and any of those other things. But what he did do he absolutely nailed with a 4, 3, 7, 40 yard dash. I want you to think about the difference in speed when we talk about Malachi Fields at 4, 61 or even a Carnell Tate at 4, 5 4. And we talk about those numbers in the 10 yard split that are in the 16 range. Low 1 sixes. He had a 10 yard split of 1, 52 which is elite for his length. Okay. That only helps his cause.
- [23:36]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, I mean those are impressed. That's an impressive number for a guy with that size. And then you see some of the stuff on tape and you're like okay, this. This all tracks for what he is right now.
- [23:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
Here's where we get to some guys that, if you're casual viewers, haven't been, like, dialed in since the Senior bowl or throughout our process, and you're just kind of kept jumping in now because this is exciting and the combine's happening and the draft is only a couple months away. 54 days exactly is what Tucker told me. And I always trust Tucker. Always trust Tucker. There are some other dudes, man, that are like, let's go back and check the tape. Or you and I have already watched the tape and we hope they would work out well, but, my gosh, they blew the doors off of this place. I should make a note. Two other of the big receivers that were on that graphic, Chris Bell and Elijah Surratt, did not work out. Bell is coming off the acl. Acl and Surat's coming off the National Championship, is still training to. To work out. Let me give you some of these names, brother. Ted Hurst, Georgia State. We fell in love with him. We fell in love with him at the. At the Senior Bowl. Georgia State. Young man playing the small school level. It's almost impossible now with NIL and the guys transferring to find a receiver that, like, is in the small or any position player. He played at Georgia State. Over a thousand receiving yards. I think it was this past year. My research from the Senior Bull still holding up. I think it was like 10, 15 receiving yards. Right. He checks in at almost. He's basically six four, 206 pounds, big hands, nine and three quarters, 32 and 5, 8 inch arm length. Right? Checks all those boxes.
- [25:14]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [25:15]
Daniel Jeremiah
He comes out, man. 10 yard split is 155, which is really, really good for his size. He runs a 4, 4, 2. At that size. He is a 36 and a half inch vertical, which is really good for his size. And he has the best broad jump of every single wide receiver. And there were like 50 plus right at 11 foot 3. So you get this Ted Hurst guy that we're already talking about in day two, and then a couple other guys come out and I told you about Bryce Lane earlier and I told you he was. He kept popping up on my tape when I'm watching Lance.
- [25:49]
Bucky Brooks
But.
- [25:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, go ahead, Cole. Yeah, sorry. Bryce. Lance, Trey, Lance's younger brother. So people kind of know about him a little bit, but still plays at North Dakota State, and I see him on reverses and catching the balls down the field and doing different things as I'm watching Cole Payton, the quarterback from North Dakota State. And I'm watching him look like Tim Tebow throw the football and immediately I'm like, I don't think I like this guy because I couldn't stand Tim Tebow in the way he threw the football. He's got this tight upper body. He comes from the left side. He's a southpaw, but. But he's just drilling strikes, unlike Tebow. And he's doing it with anticipation. And he did it again today at the combine workout.
- [26:25]
Bucky Brooks
Tebow ricochet shot for no reason. But go ahead.
- [26:28]
Daniel Jeremiah
Tim and I are actually good now, but Bryce Lance, Trey Lance's younger brother, comes out and puts together a workout that would be second to none. But I'm going to tell you who he's second to in a second. Trey lance is over 6 foot 3. He's 204 pounds. Same arm length as I just mentioned as Ted Hurst. Ted hurst ran a 1, 5, 5, 10 yard split. You know what he ran? 1, 4, 9.
- [26:53]
Chris Ballard
Wow.
- [26:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
He was tied for second fastest of any receiver. And again he's six foot three and three eighths of an inch. Ted Hurst ran a great 40 time. Remember I just told you he's a day two pick. This Ted Hurst guy, he ran a four, four two. You know what? Bryce Lance ran a four, three four. Ted Hurst had the best vertical jump or broad jump of anyone. That was the standout number for him. 11 3. Lance is 11 1. 11 1. And Hurst 40 yard. I'm sorry, vertical jump I said was really good for his size. 36 and a half inches. Really nice. Combine that length and the wingspan with 36 and a half inches. That's great. Bryce Lance was 41 and a half.
- [27:39]
Bucky Brooks
Big day.
- [27:41]
Daniel Jeremiah
I mean.
- [27:42]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah,
- [27:45]
Daniel Jeremiah
but there was a lot of them.
- [27:46]
Bucky Brooks
There's a. There's a lot of these guys that are going to be. We're going to have to go back and really kind of look at again because there's a lot, like a lot of really good. Yeah, I know there's a lot of great numbers with good tape. Like it's. There's a lot of work to do.
- [28:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
You know whose tape I have not done yet. And I'm not afraid to admit it. We're in February. Jeff Caldwell.
- [28:08]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah. From Cincinnati.
- [28:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
He's the guy who's the second to none guy. And people are probably. Can we talk about Cardinal Tate? Let's talk about Jeremiah Love. Fuck that. This guy from Cincinnati came out today. His name is Jeff Caldwell. He's 6, 5 and 3, 8 of an inch. He's 216 pounds, 32 and 58 inch arm length. He's bigger, he's taller, thicker and longer than those other guys I just mentioned, including Denzel Boston, including Malachi Fields. Okay. He ran a 43 1. 43 1. I just told you how unbelievable Bryce lance was. This guy's 2 inches taller, 12 pounds bigger, and ran 431 compared to Lance's 434. I just told you how unbelievable the split was for Caldwell. Right? I mean, for Bryce Lance tied for second at that tall. How could he do it? Caldwell, at 6 foot 5, ran a 1, 4 8. It was the fastest of any of these suckers who were running today. He had a 42 inch vertical. It was tied for second best. He had 11, 2. It was tied for second best just behind Ted Hurst. Jeff Caldwell won the combine today. I don't know what it gets him. It's gonna, like, it gets a lot of people flying back who have downloaded his tape. So on the plane Sunday, after, the offensive lineman can dig into Jeff Caldwell, and it's going to get him a lot of frequent flyer miles, because I promise you, he's going to be on. His name is going to be on that list that everyone gets cuckoo about In April, the 30 visits. Jeff Caldwell is a name now that everyone's trying to get more. And GMs are talking to the area scout like, yeah, hey, get me up to speed. Get me up to speed. That's unbelievable.
- [30:07]
Bucky Brooks
It's an unbelievable workout. I don't know. You go so into depth on these guys. I don't know where to go with it. I'll also say this. I thought Colby Young from Georgia did not, like, this is what happens with these guys that, like, this is. This is how good this combine has been. Right. You have these guys at the top who are doing elite, like, elite workouts.
- [30:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [30:27]
Bucky Brooks
And then you, like, start to look down the list. You're like, hey, Colby Young, the Georgia wide receiver, is £218. He's six' five. He ran a 449 today. Like, there's. There's all this, like, hidden little stuff in here I know of. Like, you're looking at these other guys, like Antonio Williams, the Clemson wide receiver we talked about.
- [30:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
We'll get to the slots, but go ahead. Okay. All right. All right.
- [30:46]
Bucky Brooks
I'll stay away from the.
- [30:47]
Daniel Jeremiah
Get the slots. Okay.
- [30:49]
Bucky Brooks
You know what I'm saying, though?
- [30:50]
Daniel Jeremiah
I do.
- [30:51]
Bucky Brooks
You go through all these names and all a sudden you're looking at these guys and you're like, huh? We just talk about, you know, the kid from Cincinnati, Caldwell doing, having a monster workout. And then you look at these other guys and you're like, that's a really good number for his frame. That's a great workout. For what in that. I remember seeing him on the field that day, and he looks so, like. He just looked like he was comfortable tracking the ball.
- [31:10]
Daniel Jeremiah
I worked in TV for a long time. I. I'm not saying I was good at it, but I promise you, I've been in over a thousand meetings. I know the secret sauce. I know what first take does and why those ratings are so high. Whether you love the content or not, I know what works, and I know what works is not spending 30 minutes on Georgia State, Cincinnati, and North Dakota State wide receivers. And you know what? I got away from that and had it. And I'm like, you know what? When we have these opportunities, because this is what's actually going on. I don't care. Like this. If you want to be smarter, you want to, like, really know what's, like, what happened today. This is what happened today. Some young men who weren't discovered out of high school as the top prospects, the top recruits and all that stuff, who have been grinding into it. Like, these guys made so much money and made such an impact on what NFL evaluators and decision makers think of them. And I think it's all awesome. What we saw. The slot receivers, the Z receivers, the guys who didn't have that kind of size. There was a lot of good stuff there, too, man. I'll give you a couple, and you go wherever you want from it. The two guys that stood out to me the most, Deion Burks. Zachariah Branch. Deion burks is just five, nine and three quarters. His production has never been great. He's only 180 pounds, but I told you in August, he's a top 100 pick. And I've been telling you, despite this season, underwhelming. And remember, you know, we love John Mateer on this show, but he had the thumb injury, the passing game fell apart, the production wasn't there, and quite frankly, Isaiah Satania was the better receiver at Oklahoma this year. He showed up in bigger moments. For whatever reason, they went to him in bigger moments. Maybe Matir was more comfortable with him, whatever. But I've been trying to let people know that Deion Burks is a guy that's viewed in NFL circles as someone who is absolutely going to be a day two pick, and they think there's so much more ahead of him. His NFL career is going to be more productive than that of his college career. Okay, he ran a 10 just top to bottom. You ready? 10 11. Broad jump. Tied for fifth. Absolutely. Elite 40 was 4, 3, 0. It's the third fastest of all these wide receivers. Vertical jump 42 and a half.
- [33:29]
Bucky Brooks
That in itself, by the way, which was.
- [33:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
Which was best? The best vertical jump. Yep. And he was tied for second with the 10 yard split for 149. So that's the four categories. Broad jump, 40, vertical, 10. In reverse order, by the way of NFL correlation, it starts with 10, then it goes to vertical, then it goes to 40, then it goes to broad jump. And that's not including the arm length and some of those measurable. So starting with the results that matter and correlate, you're talking tied for second, best, best, third fastest. Tied for. Yeah, tied for fifth. Sensational Dave by birx. And then Zachariah Branch, who's even a little bit smaller, an inch smaller at 585 and 3 pounds lighter. But I think he's a better football player if I'm going to be honest. And I don't think he's a gimmick. Go back to his USC tape. He can run the routes. I think he's a tough son of a gun. I think people are sleeping on this guy and I think he's going to be a dynamic playmaker in the NFL as a number two, number three, whatever you want to categorize him as. And I'm not saying in the first round, I'm saying somewhere in the second round a team is going to get a guy who's going to come in. He's NFL ready, he's tough, he knows how to run routes a lot better than people think. And he ripped off a 1-50-10 yard split. He ripped off a 4, 3, 5, 40 yard dash, 38 inch vertical, 10 5. And honestly, watching him in the gauntlet, watching him win, drills the body control, the strength of his hands catching the ball. There's nothing I saw today that is going to dissuade me of where I have him ranked, which is seventh in a really, really deep, good wide receiver group.
- [35:06]
Bucky Brooks
Even his frame, I know he's small, but I like the way he carries his weight. He's kind of a, like for a small guy, he's kind of thicker.
- [35:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
Oh, he's ripped.
- [35:12]
Bucky Brooks
He looks like he can handle it. You know what I mean?
- [35:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
Who else stood out for these, like smaller. I mean, throw up that list again, Tucker, if you got a Minute the. The. The Z. We'll call them the the Z. Flanker slash slot receivers. Omar Cooper, Casey Concepcion. I talked about Zachariah Branch, I talked about Dion Burks, but also Antonio Williams I know you wanted to get to. And Jeremy Bernard who had a really good day too.
- [35:36]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, I mean there's a lot to get in there. I thought Antonio Williams just was really solid brand of 441. That's good. A good speed for him. 39 and a half inch vertical. That's a good jump. Then he thought it looked really good on. On the field. Another Clemson guy who's after this horrific season I think is starting to write the ship a little bit. He's going to be, I think a really good slot. I thought that Concepcion maybe had the best on field drills. From what I saw he looked just comfortable and smooth. And another guy that I don't know if we have on that list but is one of my favorites because look, he's five nine, 193 pounds, short arms, small hands. But Caden Weijin.
- [36:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, what's his deal?
- [36:14]
Bucky Brooks
Man from Iowa is 4, 4 7. I thought he might even run a little faster. The real reason I'm going to highlight him is he's just a special teams maniac. Like he's dangerous in the return game and you can use him a lot of different ways after the catch. He's a player to keep an eye on day three. I think he's even more explosive than that 4, 447 time which is not bad. I just think he's. When you watch his tape, that dude gets from A to B in a hurry.
- [36:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
I was really encouraged by Jeremy Bernard too. And we should mention Omar Cooper who I think has. I think he's going to be a first round pick. I legitimately do. I think the biggest thing for Omar Cooper was can he run in the four fours. And he walked out here today, few weeks off of winning a national championship and he ran a 4, 4, 2 and in my estimation it matches the tape. So I think that that was huge for him. Good vertical like, but that's what he had to do here and he did it. I've said he's like Jarvis Landry, man, but with speed. Jarvis Landry had 4, 4, 2 speed. That's what you got. You've got the toughest son of a gun on the block for his size blocking, you know, just like working the middle of the field. He does every little thing. His compete level is awesome. But I was really encouraged by Jeremy Bernard because I was kind of worried. When you watch his tape I see flashes like the takeoff, but I don't see that like great second burst sometimes. But I just really like him as a player. Not dissimilar from Cooper to be honest with you. Contact, balance, toughness. Does all the little things love work in the middle of field. I think he's going to be a second round pick but later in the second round I think he's going to come in the league and he's just going to consistently produce, you know. Yeah, but I love seeing that he ran a 1, 5, 210 yard split. It kind of, you see that on tape. The ability to accelerate. I love the fact that he ran something with a 4, 4. He ran a 4, 4, 8. That was the whole thing for him. And you know what? He snuck into a couple of these sons of guns. They just snuck in these little shuttles and cones because not a lot of guys are doing it this year because apparently people are slipping.
- [38:21]
Bucky Brooks
I feel like it's been going down for a couple years now. Like guys just don't want to run
- [38:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
it here and they're just not. But he went over in a small group of players that ran the three cone. He ran a six, seven one which just trust me on it, is elite. Elite, elite. The body control you see again matches tape, right? Those are the receivers. I thought it was a fascinating group and people might have been disappointed because it wasn't the fireworks that we saw with Sonny Styles. But I thought the fireworks were in the, the real scouting like the deeper, deeper down. Gotcha quarterbacks. I didn't expect to start the quarterback conversation on Taylor Green but where else can you go? The guy is superhuman. And I told you throughout the week I didn't like his tape in Arkansas. I think the two most important things a quarterback has to have, accuracy, decision making. And I think he got a D to an F grade in those, those areas on tape. But I've seen improvement over the over time with him. I've seen that he's hitting some more spots. I've seen some development in some like early in the season the mistakes and the, even the turnover worthy plays that weren't turnover weren't turnovers were like oh, cringy, right. And then I saw him at the Senior Bowl. I saw steady progression each day and he was just kind of growing on me and like just watching the way he carries himself and I we've, I mean we all know he's a phenomenal athlete but there's a certain level of Athlete that's different than all the others where you say, you know what, he's just so special, let's bring him in with no pressures. Jalen Milroe. Yeah, this guy's better than Jalen Milroe. I promise you. Like significantly football smarter, more accurate, just has natural touch, better natural touch throwing the football. And physically like Milro was like super quick, super fast, all that stuff. Well, this guy's super fast too. He ran a 4, 3, 6 and he's also 6 foot 6, 227 pounds with almost 10 inch handspan and 35 and 34. He has left tackle, arm length. And you say why is that important? I don't know.
- [40:47]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, I don't know if that helps him actually.
- [40:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
But it doesn't because it's part of the reason why his stroke isn't as consistent. I understand that it helps for the people out there who are like what's moving to wide receivers? A thousand yard receiver right away, like please stop, please stop. This guy's been working his entire life to play the quarterback position. Is he going to come in the league and maybe have some packages for him? Just like we talked about with Cole Payton who's been like the Tim Tebow of the FCS of like running short yardage, inverted veer, all that stuff. Yeah, I think you'd be. And remember Seattle with Melrose as a third round pick early in the season they did some qb, QB stuff, short yardage, more like sneaks and stuff like that. But it seemed like they were setting something up, a bigger package for him and it just kind of went away. This guy is a different level with his, with his strides and his athleticism. I don't know if I'm saying to you people in the league or like Cole Payton, we're intrigued. Maybe we bring him in late, they late third round and and utilize them and we try to develop them. The hell you wouldn't do that with this guy. I mean Taylor Green is,
- [42:01]
Bucky Brooks
I mean you just had a GM sit in this chair and talk about how you have to keep taking your shots at quarterback.
- [42:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
He's a shot.
- [42:09]
Bucky Brooks
You take shot, right? You take the shot. And I like that he didn't shy away from it. I've seen, we've seen a lot of uber athletic quarterbacks come here, not work out. I mean Jalen Milroe I thought had an opportunity to show the world just exactly what he could do and he didn't run. I mean Lamar Jackson didn't run. I mean these are guys that are That I thought could have come here and really showed something and this kid didn't shy away from it. He went out there, put on an absolute show and that's. We could be talking about a lot of different things if Taylor Green does not run the way he runs today. We're not talking about Taylor Green. He may not even come up in this conversation right now. You know, we talked about him, the Senior bowl, nice store. We know he's super athletic. We know he can run, yada yada yada.
- [42:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
What was Joe Milton the fifth.
- [42:48]
Bucky Brooks
He was a fifth. Yep.
- [42:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
And what did they, they traded him for what, a third. They got a third round pick from the Cowboys. I want to say it was a third for the, from the Cowboys, but
- [42:59]
Bucky Brooks
you know what I'm saying? Like of course I do. He took advantage and I love that he took advantage. That's one of the other themes in this, in this. There's been some guys that we wish had worked out, but there's some dudes who didn't shy away from the moment and stepped up and came through.
- [43:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
Fernando Mendoza did not work out. I think Taylor Green's going to be a third round pick. I think worst case, it's early day three.
- [43:18]
Bucky Brooks
He's a top hundred guy.
- [43:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
I think he's just too talented and I think everyone needs to get wide receiver out of their mouth then it's not for any external reason, any political reason, any racial reason. It's for no reason other than I want to give this guy a chance to do develop as a backup quarterback that comes in the league with no pressure and let's see what happens because if I can develop something like that with that ability, yeah, it's the same thing with Milro.
- [43:44]
Bucky Brooks
Like that was the whole thing. And this guy's tape, I, I swear to you, this guy's tape I think is better than Milro.
- [43:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
Oh, I know it's better.
- [43:49]
Bucky Brooks
So if you could, if you're think if that's your thinking then why has it changed now? Like I, it's. To me it's a no brainer. He's a top owner guy.
- [43:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
I want to go to the rest of the quarterbacks because Mendoza didn't, didn't work out. And obviously here's how I'm going to. I'm going to throw some nuggets at you and you take it anywhere you want. I thought it was so very clear. And who cares about a workout throwing to receivers you don't know, inside the gym without pads on and with no defense and all that Stuff so very clear to me that Ty Simpson is the best quarterback throwing the football on the field today. I thought Garrett Nussmeier did some really good things. I thought Cole Klubnick was more erratic than maybe the narrative was in the broadcast. But I also wasn't there on the field and so, but I. There's two names. I thought Cole Payton showed, showed himself well, especially kind of a couple of the deep balls and stuff like that. I think the quarterback that everyone's sleeping on, and I'm not talking first or second round, but if you really watch today, and I don't know why it was missed, if you really watched, Baron Morton might have been the second best passer there today. And I always get my information from NFL GMs and personnel people and coaches, especially now that we're into this lying season. I base my information oftentimes off of what questions are they asking me. And I promise you, outside of conversations about the top two or three guys, honestly, I, I don't know. Outside of Mendoza and Simpson, I don't know that a quarterback name has been asked to me of my thoughts on that quarterback more than Baron Morton. Just throwing it out there.
- [45:39]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah. It's interesting. You keep, you keep going back to it and you're like a dog with a bone there.
- [45:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's.
- [45:44]
Bucky Brooks
I'll say this, I'm going to go in a different direction, please. Really good to see Drew Aller out there. And I thought he had a. His workout got better. Better as he went on. He looks like he was smiling. It was great to see him out there throwing the ball. After the injury and the, the horrific year that he had at Penn State. It was good to see him work out. I don't. I thought Ty was really good. I thought Ty Simpson was really good. Carson Beck had a hell of a day too, in my mind.
- [46:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [46:09]
Bucky Brooks
I thought Carson Beck came out with his build and the way he carried his weight. I thought I'm smiling when people were. Are booing him. I thought he threw the ball well. I thought Carson Beck had a really nice workout today.
- [46:22]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'll tell you one thing about Carson Beck that I do like. He's got that prick in him.
- [46:27]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [46:28]
Daniel Jeremiah
You know what I mean, right? You can't. And I promise you, all the sweetheart quarterbacks that you like, all the commercial guys, all the, all the good looking ones, all the really nice guys, they seem so nice. I'd love my daughter to date him. She's adorable. He does so, so much funny stuff on commercials. They're all Assholes, man. They're all obsessive. They're all grinders. They're all CEOs of businesses, and they need to be. And I say that, like, in such a positive light. There's not one of them that is not a prick. And he checks that box. Yeah, he's just got that in him.
- [47:10]
Bucky Brooks
I mean, that frame, though. I mean, he was.
- [47:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
You might not like his personality. You might not like some of the stuff, but he's. He's just got like. I don't care. Like. Yeah, yeah. So. So what I am interested in.
- [47:22]
Bucky Brooks
The Barrymore thing is interesting me, though. I'll go back to that a little.
- [47:24]
Chris Ballard
All right.
- [47:25]
Bucky Brooks
Because I don't think the tape is. I don't love the tape. I know. So, like, I don't. I can't get on board with it. Even with a great workout. Like, the idea that he would go.
- [47:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's a quick processing. It's the ball out on time and it's the rhythm. The rhythm stuff.
- [47:38]
Bucky Brooks
It's the.
- [47:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's the football intelligence. It's the football intelligence. Intelligence. It's the toughness, it's the leadership. And it's a league where it's the haves and have nots. There's really three tiers of quarterbacks in the league. There's the first rounders that I'm drafting because they've got to be the guy. Then there's that, like, early. That second round guy where I think he can't. There's four tiers. I think he can be. I hope so. Like the Derek Carrs, the. The Tyler Shucks. I. I think he can be. I really believe in him. I'm not going to. He might not be in there in the third round. Like, I value him enough to take him early in the second. Drew Brees, like, there's a bunch of them. Okay.
- [48:20]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [48:21]
Daniel Jeremiah
But there's something negative with Shuck. It was. He's 100 years old, he's been to seven different schools, and he's had all these injuries with Breeze. It was the size with. With Derek Carr. I have my own opinions. It doesn't matter now. So there's that tier. Then there's a third tier we just talked about with the Taylor Greens, the Jalen Melrose or the Joe Miltons, the, like, developmental guys that would bring in and maybe Cole Payton's develop him. Maybe we get something out of them in terms of short yardage, goal line, a package. And people often say it and don't wind up doing it, but that's how they view it. And then there's this fourth tier of quarterback. And if we're being honest, I think Kirk Cousins was kind of one of those. But maybe. Maybe was in between. But there's a lot of guys, certainly Chase Daniel, that comes to mind first and foremost that you just draft because you don't ever have an expectation he's going to be a starter. But maybe if we're in a pinch two, three years down the road, he can start and win some games for us. There's a bunch of them in the league. Houston's backup who came in for Davis Mills. Davis Mills, like those kind of guys, but they're so smart and they're another coach. And those prick starting quarterbacks I told you about, they need a guy who will. Who will actually do the homework assignments. And you think like, you think homework assignments were hard when you were a senior in high school or something. These are like grinding data, tape tendencies, all this stuff. And so when I talk to people in the league, their thing on Morton is he's gonna be a great backup. Cause he's smart, he's tough, he loves and eats football like his whole life is that he's gonna be great in that quarterback room, man. And I need that. Okay.
- [50:11]
Bucky Brooks
Don't love the tape. I think he makes a lot of questionable decisions on tape. Hasn't been able to.
- [50:15]
Daniel Jeremiah
I don't disagree.
- [50:16]
Bucky Brooks
Hasn't been able to stay healthy. But like he is.
- [50:18]
Daniel Jeremiah
He's.
- [50:18]
Bucky Brooks
Listen, he.
- [50:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
He.
- [50:19]
Bucky Brooks
That's got nothing to do with toughness. That kid is tough.
- [50:21]
Daniel Jeremiah
Oh my gosh.
- [50:22]
Bucky Brooks
And a great leader. That's not what I'm saying. So I want to be clear about it. But like me, me, tape.
- [50:28]
Daniel Jeremiah
All right, you. You watch when some of these other big name guys that we were touting in the summer and people make mistakes all the time.
- [50:34]
Bucky Brooks
I don't.
- [50:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
Manning passing again. So it's going to be a mistake when he gets taken ahead of.
- [50:38]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, ahead. If he gets.
- [50:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm taking Baron Morton over Drew Aller every single day of the week there. You can print that. You can print Beck. No.
- [50:47]
Bucky Brooks
Okay, thank you. That's where. That's. You know, I just want to. I'm just trying to get a feel for where you are.
- [50:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Not over Nussmire, not over Beck, certainly not over Simpson. Obviously not Mendoza. I'm not taking him over Cole Payton. I'm not taking him over Taylon Green.
- [50:59]
Bucky Brooks
You're not taking over Cole Payton?
- [51:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, I'm taking Cole Payton in the third, worst case early.
- [51:04]
Bucky Brooks
You were just Talking about this. You were talking about Barry Morton like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
- [51:08]
Chris Ballard
No.
- [51:08]
Bucky Brooks
You're not taking him over.
- [51:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
No. But there are club Nicks and Allers and other bigger name guys that are out there.
- [51:14]
Bucky Brooks
Don't yell at me.
- [51:15]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yes. Are you still not feeling good? I think the whole like menches and feeling good ship has this roll. It was on.
- [51:22]
Bucky Brooks
It was.
- [51:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
It was on a float. It was rolling out of Indian Indianapolis Airport tomorrow. The only man to have a cold for nine days.
- [51:31]
Bucky Brooks
Here we go. Check the tape.
- [51:36]
Daniel Jeremiah
Anything else on quarterbacks you want to get? By the way, in the McShay report, I got into the quarterbacks in more detail. Just, just. And some of the, some of the conversations I'm having. But go ahead, Macro.
- [51:46]
Bucky Brooks
I thought it was nice that they all they was overall was a pretty good day for all of them. You know what I mean? Like, Taylor Green kind of struggled with the throws on the field, but he had such a great workout that it didn't matter. And this has been a quarterback class that I think that's been battered and it's not that great. Okay. It just isn't. But when you're one of those kids and you're going out, you're competing, it's not that great to hear about how this isn't a great quarterback class. And I thought they all worked out pretty well today and I think that's good for them.
- [52:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
I don't disagree. And I actually think when we look back on this quarterback class and I've got some, some interesting nuggets in the, in the McShay report about, like what people in the league are comparing it to what they think is going to happen. And it's not overly promising. I'm going to state this until the end of this draft and beyond. I think when we look back on the 26 quarterback class, it's going to be one of those where it's like, oh, we got five starters from that group or something like that, maybe four. I think it's going to wind up being sneaky. Good. Because you know what I think happened? I think something happened to a lot of these quarterbacks that doesn't normally happen is that they had to deal with real, real life adversity, injuries, losing coaches, like real stuff, playing lousy even when those things weren't happening. Like, that's a. Every GM we talk to, it's like it's the same themes. These guys have been through some stuff that a lot of other guys that come in the league all roses, you know. I don't know. I just got a sense about this group. All right, running backs. We've already gone long. Who cares? Till last night. Poor Tucker and Nick and Jake, they get like 4am Wake ups. Probably want to wring my neck. Had a great lunch with you guys today, though. Absolutely fabulous. Can we just honestly. Two seconds.
- [53:37]
Bucky Brooks
Is this gonna be the Shark Tank idea that I didn't hear about or. I hope so.
- [53:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, it's not the Shark Tank idea, but I might be cooking with somebody at some point, and I make the. The world's greatest hollandaise sauce.
- [53:49]
Bucky Brooks
Keep saying it.
- [53:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
So we'll see. We'll see. We're fortunate, these three men who are behind the scenes.
- [53:57]
Bucky Brooks
Oh, isn't it? Yeah, There's. There's a lot of people we need to thank.
- [54:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
Unbelievably talented. What they do. They grind. Jake, Nick, and Tucker. Everyone probably knows more because he's. I'm always needling them, and he's giving it back when he can. Like, man, we're lucky.
- [54:14]
Bucky Brooks
Really lucky.
- [54:15]
Daniel Jeremiah
Like, the work that has gone into this, and now all of a sudden, it's like the coveted place. And we got people from different networks popping in. That's what happens when moles and rats come out of the woodwork and they try to figure out, where are they? How many cameras do they need, how many people are in their crew? What's the setup like? Well, we got three men that have taken this on, and it started last year here with us stumbling into a hotel that we didn't even know existed because it has a soft opening and we're able to get in. And they took this room and made it into this beautiful set that now is, like, kind of the talk of Indianapolis with TV stuff. And they did it by obviously being unbelievably talented but grinding and actually caring. And there's no three men that I would want to work with more than Tucker, Jake, and Nick. And by the way, they're even greater human beings. And I enjoy every day that we get to work together. Together. So there we go.
- [55:10]
Bucky Brooks
I agree.
- [55:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
I know you do. I know you do.
- [55:13]
Bucky Brooks
I mean, I come.
- [55:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
I speak for both.
- [55:15]
Bucky Brooks
Listen to me. And Jake's got, like, some kind of lemon ginger. Yeah, he doesn't have to do that.
- [55:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, that's the kind of.
- [55:21]
Bucky Brooks
He did say I was out on the business idea. That wasn't fun, but other than that, it was great.
- [55:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, well, maybe like, peel yourself out of bed, get some fresh air, and come out to some lunches with us. And you know, you get involved.
- [55:32]
Bucky Brooks
Also, we're gonna do the thanks now to everyone, because, I mean, we should probably thank. Thank Connor and Allison and Marissa and Dan. I mean, please do it.
- [55:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
I started, you finished.
- [55:41]
Bucky Brooks
And then the. It was really good.
- [55:43]
Daniel Jeremiah
Allison. Connor always. He oversees all of this and get. Does all the executive stuff that's dirty work. And I'm always. We're always like, yeah, stuff we want to do. Yeah. And Dan is a consummate grinder and is rising faster than this, and he should, because he works so hard and he's so talented, what he does. And Marissa handles everything. Everything behind the scenes and get zero credit for it, and she's perfectly happy with all of that. But I do want to give a special thanks to Alison. Alison has been, like, a godsend to this group, and I can text a lot of these GMs and all, but, like, nothing gets done because, yeah, man, let's do it. And it's like Alison actually, like, set up. We had seven general manager interviews. Do you know hard that is to do?
- [56:28]
Bucky Brooks
And it's not like it seem like it's nothing. It's not on the phone.
- [56:30]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's not like. It's not like radio row where they pop in for 10 minutes and like, yeah, we could use a running back this year. And, you know, we feel good about our quarterback situation. Like, they sit down and they talk to us for 40, 50 minutes and, like. Like, really dish it.
- [56:45]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [56:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
So thank you to Allison as well.
- [56:47]
Bucky Brooks
Also, good to meet the ringer fantasy boys. Those goofballs. That was fun.
- [56:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [56:51]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah,
- [56:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
they're goofballs, man, but they're a lot of fun. Yeah, they are a lot of fun. They're a lot of fun. They do some really good stuff. Check out their. Their.
- [56:59]
Bucky Brooks
Check out DK's draft guy, man.
- [57:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, that thing's. I like it.
- [57:04]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah, me too.
- [57:04]
Daniel Jeremiah
Some stuff in there. It's good to talk to him. I like DK a lot. All right, running backs. Jeremiah Love is a story. Jeremiah Love had one thing to do here, and honestly, he didn't even have to do it, but he just decided to show up and he's going to run, and he runs a 4, 4, 3, 6. It's the second best of all of the running backs that are here. He's 6 foot, 212 pounds, and honestly, had he run. Had he finished his first One that was a 4, 3, 7, and just kept running out of the building to a limousine like Deion Sanders did one, you know, as the lore is I would have been like, yeah, sure, no problem. Right? Yeah, like, sure. I've told you all week long, every general manager I talk to, they say, and their list may be four, it may be five deep, it may include Arvell Reese Race, it may include guard from Penn State, but it certainly includes Sonny Styles, and it certainly includes Caleb Downs, and it certainly includes Jeremiah Love as the only elite blues, as people in the league call him, in this entire draft class. He had nothing to prove, man, and he still came out and ran a 4, 3, 6. And by the way, if you get a chance, go watch the way he runs routes. That, to me, was more impressive. I knew he was going to run fast. It was 4, 3, 9. It was the route running, seeing. Oh, we're getting. We're getting like, he's not McCaffrey, but, like, there's some Bijan and there, you know, like, yeah, so we got that part of it. And you know what? I also kind of like getting to know what drives him, and there's been great features on him and. And kind of what he's dealt with throughout his life. And his parents and the way they challenged him rather than kind of like bottled him up.
- [58:45]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [58:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
And made it. Made his. His, you know, his brain a superpower, which is awesome. And as a parent, like, I get chills thinking about it. And then watching his dad in the stands after he ran a 4, 3, 7, being like, it was more.
- [59:03]
Bucky Brooks
There was a great week for the parents, by the way.
- [59:04]
Daniel Jeremiah
Great week for the parents.
- [59:05]
Bucky Brooks
Awesome.
- [59:06]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, no better parent parent week than Mrs. Stiles, though.
- [59:10]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [59:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
But just to see that. Right. Knowing and not like, you can run faster. It was like, I know there's a number you want, son. Go get it. And then he came back and ran it. That's awesome.
- [59:25]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [59:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right. Just to kind of get to know the. The what and the why behind some of these young men. So. So that was an awesome scene. The next player who got the most, Jeremiah Love, was talked about the most on the broadcast and all through social media and absolutely should have been, for all the reasons I just told you. Jadarian Price was the second most talked about. And again, he's a Notre Dame running back, and he did some really good things in the workouts and all. Like, some good things. I didn't think he deserved to be talked about as much as some of these other guys, if I'm going to be totally blunt.
- [59:56]
Bucky Brooks
And it's.
- [59:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
And it doesn't. Like, that's not a knock on Jadarian. Jadarian's workout was good. It was good. It was okay. It was good. He's five, ten and a half. He's 203 pounds. He had a 35 inch vertical, which is above average. Hit a ten, four broad jump, which is good. It's really good. He had 161 ten yard split. It's ninth, slightly below average. Actually hit a four, four, nine. Very good. Tied for six with the running backs. Excellent on field workout. So that portion of it he deserved his flowers. But the rest of it, it was like, yo, hello. Yeah, we've got three backs that are doing something that is absolutely absurd right now. What the hell were we doing?
- [60:43]
Bucky Brooks
I don't know.
- [60:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
Mike Washington had a workout equivalent to that of like a top 15 pick at the running back position. That's not often. Mike Washington from Arkansas, who we told you, really good tape, catches the ball, power back, all those things that you look for in the NFL came to the Senior bowl and stood out as probably the best running back there in totality.
- [61:05]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [61:06]
Daniel Jeremiah
Mike Washington, 6 foot 1. He's 223 pounds. I just told you the numbers of Jadarian Price, who was the tuck of the town in Indy today. He had a 39 inch vertical. He's bigger, he's two inches taller. He's 20 pounds heavier. And he had four more inches on his vertical. He had four more inches on his broad jump. They were both second best. He ran a 1:5:1. I told you. Jadarian ran a 1:6:1. He ran a 1 5:1. He was the best of any running back in this class this year. It's fucking elite, man. Take that with the wadge, the weight adjusted number at 151. He ran a 4, 3 3. Also best.
- [61:50]
Bucky Brooks
Yep. It's insane.
- [61:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
How does that not solidify him at least as a day two pick? When you combine the tape that we already liked and there's all this conversation about and I'm not saying that he's better than Jadarian Price because of workouts. I'm not at all saying that. I'm just saying, like I see a difference in physical ability and there's some power and explosiveness behind the way he runs.
- [62:22]
Bucky Brooks
I want to get back to Price, but I'll let you finish with the big guys.
- [62:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
The next one up, this Seth McGowan guy who I've watched a little bit of tape on, I've got to go back to Kentucky again, really stood out at the Senior Bowl. When I watched him on tape, I saw a guy who Presses the line of scrimmage, makes this one cut and finds a way without losing very much motion at all to start and accelerating again. He's another over 6 foot 223 pounds, right. Broad jump, 1011, lower body explosion. Best in class. Vertical jump, 42 and a half. 42 and a half, folks, at 223 pounds. You know what that tells me? He creates power from ground up. Kind of important at running back. He was best in class, second best of all time at the combine. It was unbelievable. Yeah, 1, 60 was six best. Put that in the wadge again. The weight adjusted 4, 4 9. He runs at 223. He has an awesome day. Awesome day. Then Adam Randall, a guy we've been telling you about, we've literally watched him and talked about him through his process of converted wide receiver. Doesn't have really good running instincts, runs high, all this stuff. And then all of a sudden you start seeing as the season goes on, he's running with power and confidence and his instincts are getting better. Then he comes to the Senior bowl and obviously he's going to catch the ball well, but he does some things there. His workout today, he's bigger than both those two other badasses. He's six, three and a third. 232 pounds. That's 10 pounds on the other guy. Long arms for going out and catching the ball. 32 and 3 inches. He has a broad jump of 10 fours. Tied for third. That's elite. He had a 37 inch vertical. It's tied for fourth. It's outstanding. 1, 6 0, which is even, which was the same time I just told you on McGowan who blew up the combine and he ran a 4,5 0, which was eighth best. And again put that in the wadge machine and spit it out. I'm telling you, when those Raz scores come out, and I'm sure they're out now, they do the unofficial ones and then you get which is a calculation. There's all these different scores. But Raz has proven to be like a very good indicator of what your physical traits. When you combine what's important and throw it in the machine and pop it out. And I bet you just like Sam Roush, by the way. Hey, by the way, the oatmeal stuff's cute and fun until my guy Sam Roush comes out here and blows up the combine and has the only 10.0 perfect score in the Raz. So I've had enough with the oatmeal and the lumberjack and I'M done with that whole silliness.
- [65:03]
Bucky Brooks
Can you just switch? Can you just do that?
- [65:05]
Daniel Jeremiah
You guys can do all the laughing because you probably feel like, oh, I
- [65:10]
Bucky Brooks
gotta send like 10,000 T shirts back.
- [65:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, you gotta send like, fine, we'll stick with the oatmeal, but you gotta send about 10,000 sorrys to me with all the, all the Roush laughing. I loved Roush.
- [65:20]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah. I don't know if I love the comp.
- [65:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
Well, I mean, the, the comp. No matter what comp it is, it's not good enough because he's, he's literally the premier RAS score.
- [65:32]
Bucky Brooks
Ras.
- [65:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
But I can't wait to see what those numbers are for for McGowan, for Randall, and especially for Mike Washington.
- [65:39]
Bucky Brooks
Impressive. I think size matters. That position. You want a big back who can handle, you know, like the beating that NFL backs take. When you look at the best backs in the league, a lot of them are. Or that size really quickly. I didn't see, I saw that your boy Mel had Jadarin price in the first round. Oh, that's wild.
- [65:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
DJs been talking about it a lot, too.
- [65:57]
Bucky Brooks
He's a speedback who ran an okay time today. There's a lot of east west to his game. I don't know how it translates to the NFL didn't play a big.
- [66:05]
Daniel Jeremiah
Tell them, tell them, look in that camera right now and tell them quickly what you saw on tape. Because I, I, I'm not saying he's an explosive dude.
- [66:13]
Bucky Brooks
I expected a better time today. He, he's explosive. He's very dangerous as a kickoff returner, but I think he has 15 catches over the last three years, so it's kind of tough to get a feel for how he is in the passing game. And when I see a lot of east west, he likes to run away from tackles. He loves to bounce outside, he loves the cutback. And then when he gets to the second level, instead of making a linebacker or safety miss, he's going to try to run away from that tackle and turn outside. And he, and he. It's effective at the college level. I mean, he had a high average yards per carry, but I'm not sure how that translates to the NFL where everyone's bigger, stronger, faster. It's, to me, I have my concerns. I think that we're finding RB2 in this class is a lot harder than people maybe have anticipated.
- [66:52]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, Emmett Johnson was RB two or three on one.
- [66:55]
Bucky Brooks
I really like Emmett Johnson. He didn't have a good day today.
- [66:57]
Daniel Jeremiah
He didn't. Yeah. He didn't work out well.
- [66:58]
Bucky Brooks
Now it's back in the lab for that. But I also like the idea that there's not. That there's not a massive gap between love and everyone else is crazy to me. I mean, there's. If you didn't see a running back off until the third round, it wouldn't surprise me.
- [67:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
I wouldn't draft another one of these running backs until the third round. But I'd be thrilled to get Mike Washington in the third round, and I'd be thrilled to get Adam Randle in the fourth round.
- [67:20]
Bucky Brooks
And they're going to tell you that Washington's a little tight. Randle's a little tight. That's what you get with that size. I don't care. I don't care. Those guys can run also. A lot of scared running backs today. Only 10 rand. A lot of Scott scared guys. A lot of guys. Like, your opportunity here to be that guy, to step up and, like, make
- [67:35]
Daniel Jeremiah
a name for yourself on this track. Why wouldn't you run?
- [67:37]
Bucky Brooks
10 guys ran.
- [67:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
This track is blazing hot. It's like going to the. The craps table, and people are freaking out. You're. You're like a man in a suit, and you're throwing it in. You got women jumping up and down and drinks spilling and people going nuts. Tucker's probably in there because he gets hot on the crafts table. I see it in his face right now. This. This turf is hot, man.
- [68:02]
Bucky Brooks
Yeah.
- [68:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
Run on it.
- [68:04]
Bucky Brooks
Yep.
- [68:04]
Daniel Jeremiah
Run on it.
- [68:06]
Bucky Brooks
I don't get it. I don't get it. I mean, you look scared. You look scared when that happens.
- [68:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
Your toughness was not on great display, but it was in moments when you needed it most. I've had an awesome week with you, regardless. I've missed hanging out and watching workouts because you've been quarantined, and I've loved every minute of it. So we've got an awesome interview that we taped a little bit earlier with Chris Ballard. Chris is awesome, man. Chris.
- [68:35]
Bucky Brooks
This is the one I missed. This is the one thing I missed.
- [68:37]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. And there are some people in this room who said it might have been the best interview we've ever done. I hope you enjoy Chris Ballard. He. He, like, you know what? He owns some stuff. He gave some. Some information, like, and background on stuff that was fascinating. And the more we're doing this thing, the more I just think we keep rolling it out, and I think we're going to wind up doing, like, something special with this GM series we're just starting. I promise you this thing's going to grow and it's going to get big. And yeah, I've had an awesome week. We're flying out tomorrow. That's what we're talking about, flying out. We're not going to miss the O line workouts. Bench wouldn't let us. But we're going to be back on Monday. Please join the show and we're gonna review everything and I'm gonna have a top 100 board coming out Monday or Wednesday, but I gotta get to work on that flight back and kind of put all this stuff in the system. Once again, thank you to Jake and to Nick and to Tucker and to Allison and to Connor and to Marissa and to everyone else who has been a part of this. Dan, obviously Dan bolted this morning, so I'm kind of giving them the treatment. But to Dan. Dan, absolutely. Who he's gonna be writing this article and getting it out. So it's in your inbox. The McShay Report. Google it and subscribe tomorrow morning. But please enjoy this Chris Ballard interview. It's not an interview, it's a conversation. And it's to me, it's, it's as good as it gets with the GM just being honest and telling you how he got to where he is, the struggles that he's going through, what he plans on doing to fix these struggles and kind of what has made him the guy that he is today, which is a pretty awesome guy.
- [70:12]
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- [71:29]
Bucky Brooks
somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something. And maybe you've got it, too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.
- [71:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's good to have you here, man.
- [71:58]
Chris Ballard
Thanks for having me.
- [71:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Chris Ballard, general manager of the Indianapolis Colts. It's been a while. I. First of all, I wanted to thank you. I'm just gonna lay this out there. When I was dealing with some health stuff, one of the first text messages I got from anyone in the business was from you. And just like, you know, it kind of speaks to who you are. And I just wanted to say thank you publicly for that.
- [72:19]
Chris Ballard
I appreciate it.
- [72:22]
Daniel Jeremiah
I want to get in your background. We're not going to do the normal, like radio row and all the questions about this year's draft and class and needs and all that stuff. I just. I actually want to take some time and let people get to know you and kind of your backgr. First thing. You grew up in Texas, right?
- [72:36]
Chris Ballard
Yep.
- [72:37]
Daniel Jeremiah
How in the hell do you wind up in Wisconsin?
- [72:40]
Chris Ballard
So, yeah, it's a. Wasn't highly recovered. I was an option quarterback. I could run. And Don Morton was the coach at Tulsa, and he had gone up to Wisconsin, so he had connections down in the South. And Craig. There was actually two coaches. Craig Bol.
- [72:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yep.
- [72:59]
Chris Ballard
And Lovey Smith. Oh, wow. And so they were recruiting the state of Texas. So they both. And then another coach by the name of Jimmy Gonzalez who flew around. So they had the state of Texas. I was, you know, they. They saw an option quarterback that could run, figured I could do something, you know, just because of the speed. I had some other places to go, but once I got on campus, I was like, man, this is incredible. And I hit. Look, when I went on my Visit, it was 60 degrees in January, and they were making it. So this ain't bad. It's not a. It's not. It's not too cold. So that's kind of how I ended up. You know, recruiting was much different than it is today.
- [73:40]
Bucky Brooks
Right.
- [73:41]
Chris Ballard
But the district I played in growing up in Texas City Was just it. It. It had a plethora of talent between Lamarck High School, Galveston Ball, LaPorte, like multiple NFL players. It was great competition. So recruiters were always coming through there. And that's kind of how I ended up at Wisconsin.
- [74:05]
Daniel Jeremiah
So you play with a lot of talent in Texas. You wind up at University of Wisconsin and obviously a great program there. You wind up. Correct me if I'm wrong, back at. Was it Texas? Kingsville, Right. Coaching.
- [74:18]
Chris Ballard
Yep.
- [74:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
What about whether you're childhood, high school, college, early days coaching, what was it that helped develop you?
- [74:30]
Chris Ballard
So my mom is really my mom, only I have a stepfather, Ossi, who I'm very close with. Really. My mom raised me along with my grandfather, was a coach. My grandfather played at University of Texas, played with Bobby Lane, was really close with Bobby, ended up coaching high school football around the state of Texas and then settled in it in Texas City, where he was actually at the end of his career, where he ended up being a middle school coach. But he was an outstanding football coach. And that was kind of my first exposure day to day to football was with him. And so. And the last thing I wanted to do was be in football, to be quite honest with you.
- [75:13]
Bucky Brooks
Really?
- [75:14]
Chris Ballard
Oh, yeah. When I went to. I mean, I wanted to go to law school. I mean, that's what the plan was gonna be. And then I remember when I graduated In December of 92, I ended up going to. Going home, trying to, you know, working to try to get in law school, but ended up going. Gene Sharp was a coach at my high school that was kind of helping at my high school. Took a job in Hitchcock and said, why don't you come over and help? And I kind of got the bug when I went over there to do it. And I asked him, I said, look, if I want to coach in college, what's your suggestion? And Bobby Jack Wright was a coach, kind of a legendary assistant coach at coast at University of Texas for a long time and in Oklahoma with Bob Stoops. Well, Bobby Jack started his career, he worked under Coach Sharp at one of the Laredo High schools or Mission High School down in the Valley in Texas. And he said, Bobby Jack went and started his career at A and I, which now is A and M Kingsville, which he happened to coach Darrell Green, and that kind of got him going. So I said, well, I'm all in. Can. Can you help me? So he called Ron Harms, who's incredible in the College Football hall of Fame, had won a lot of games A. And I had A unbelievable football history when you, when you just look at it in totality. I mean from Darrell Green to Gene Upshaw to John Randall and then the group we had when I got fortunate enough to be there, from Jermaine Mayberry who was a first round pick by Philly, Al Harris who played for, you know, 14, 15 years, Floyd Young, I mean I can go on and on. They, we were. Robert Garza played for us for 14 and, and Chicago. So I'm in Kingsville for seven years with this talent and you're learning it all because like Division 2 football, it's not much different. I mean of course on a bigger scale, but like we had 36 scholarships and nobody was on full scholarship. So you know, the offense would get 17, the defense would get 17, then Coach Harms would get two to play with and so, but we would. And nobody was full. So you'd have points, scholarship for room and board. I remember Garza, Robert like, I think we got Robert on books. He was at Rio Hondo High School. He was a defensive end at Rio Hondo High School. And Coach Harms saw him, recruited him. He had this thick lower body. He was a, he was a great shot put discus athlete in high school and in college. And I remember I was asking, we wanted him on defense and he never would give him to us. He kept telling us, this kid's gonna be an NFL center one day. I'd be damned if he was not right. I mean he got drafted in the fourth and you know, rest is history. Played a long time in the league so that it was something that like I kind of fought. But once I got the bug, I knew I wanted to stay in football in some capacity.
- [78:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, kind of learned the salary cap there too. A little bit like the infant stages
- [78:15]
Chris Ballard
of management, how to line fields, I mean, you name it in Division 2 you had to do it. And plus having the athletes we had, I mean, I look back all the time, I mean chaos was just, it was just normal in Kingsville because, well,
- [78:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
it's kind of almost better than like being at Texas where you have all this support and you know what I mean? Like to learn because it's not the same duties or the same chores, but to learn like when you get to the gm, it's not this, you know, draft day Kevin Costner where you just put your board together. Like there's a lot of, there's your, your day is full of moving parts and putting out fires and everything else.
- [78:56]
Chris Ballard
You had no idea. And Kingsville back, I mean the eligibility Rules were much different then. Like, we could get Prop 48s in the school back then. So what that meant instead of going to jc, they would come to a. They could be eligible for a Division 2 school. So we made a living off going. I'd go into high schools in, you know, Texas, and A and M would be recruiting these kids, and I'd ask, can I see their transcript? And I would just. We would hang around long enough to make sure that if that kid didn't make it, he ended up, you know, in Kingsville. And so we were. We were really loaded with talent. And then you had all these NFL people coming in. That's kind of what my. In connection to the Bears ended up being. Because Rustin Webster would come in. He was working for Tampa at the time, and every year he'd come in twice. Nobody came to Kingsville twice, but he would come twice. He'd come in August, and he would come again in December, in early December. We were always a playoff team. And I'd always say, what are you coming back for? He goes, y' all all always have somebody pop up. And he was right. And they had six guys on their roster in Tampa when Tony was there, when Dungy was there, you had Carl Williams, ended up playing 10 years for him. Doggins, Diaz, Al Harris, and Floyd Young. And then Jerry Angelo was the assistant gm. And so when Jerry. Rustin. He asked Rustin, hey, who, like, who's helping you? And he said, my name. And so Jerry came down, would start coming, a personnel director coming to Kingsville. Like, that just does not happen. And so when he took the job in Chicago, I get a call, and he just says, look, you're kind of wasting away down there in Kingsville, Texas. You think you'd like to scout? It was not even in my radar to do, but I thought, you know what? I'm going to take a shot and, you know, maybe have a chance to move up in the. In the coaching world. So that. That's kind of how it all evolved.
- [81:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
And you wind up there in Chicago, climbing the ladder, kind of doing it the old school way. Area scout moving up for over a decade, right?
- [81:08]
Chris Ballard
Yep.
- [81:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
And then. And then you move on to the Kansas City Chiefs and continue to kind of grow your role with the Chiefs until 2016, 2017.
- [81:18]
Chris Ballard
Yep.
- [81:18]
Daniel Jeremiah
And then get the. The head job here at the pro level. If you had to pinpoint maybe one or two individuals or who you've learned, who you learned the most for, who prepared you the most for when you got this head job, well, there's a lot.
- [81:34]
Chris Ballard
I mean, you learn something from everybody. I mean, you're with. I mean, I learned from our scouts. I mean, I still do today. I mean, like, for me. And you're right, I was. I was in the area scout for a long time, and I was very patient. Like, in my thinking, I was always about, all right, what kind of information am I getting? All right, and is it valuable information that's helping me grow? Was my work valued? And then did I like and respect the people I worked for? And if I said yes to those three, money was not. That was kind of inconsequential. I was not. I was more worried about the growth factor than I was anything else at that time in my career. And Jerry Angelo was outstanding. He was a good gm. He was a freaking really good gm. And he knew football, and he knew players, and he knew how to articulate it in a way where coaches understood it. You know, he could speak their language. So he was, I mean, instrumental
- [82:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
in
- [82:39]
Chris Ballard
my growth over time. But, you know, in Chicago, we were fortunate because we had a. You know, Bobby DePaul was incredible. I mean, he was our pro director, and he was, you know, brilliant with personnel. Greg Gabriel was the college director. Greg was. Worked for the Giants all those years and was outstanding. So everybody, we worked. You know, I've kind of come into contact. You take something from Lovey. You know, what we did defensively there with Lovie. And, you know, Rod Marinelli had such a big impact. He was probably one of the best assistant coaches I've ever been around. Teacher. So everybody had an impact. And then when I went to Kansas City with John, with Dorsey, I mean, Dorsey's probably the best pure evaluator I've been around unequivocally.
- [83:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
You're at least the second, maybe the third.
- [83:29]
Chris Ballard
Oh, yeah.
- [83:30]
Daniel Jeremiah
No GM who said that.
- [83:32]
Chris Ballard
He can look at it and see it and see it quickly.
- [83:36]
Daniel Jeremiah
Really.
- [83:37]
Chris Ballard
He's really special at it. Yeah, he's really special at it. But in that room in Kansas City, when I went there, like, we were. It was a talented group. Now, I mean, you had Brett Veach, you had Ryan Poles, you had Borgonzi. They have a guy there now by the name of Ryan Nutt, who I think is really special as an evaluator. Brand Tillis. I mean, it was a. It was a really talented, you know, personnel group.
- [84:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [84:04]
Chris Ballard
And. Lord. I mean. And very challenging.
- [84:07]
Daniel Jeremiah
I mean, because, like, in here, back to back.
- [84:11]
Chris Ballard
Yeah.
- [84:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
They were living together apparently, at one
- [84:15]
Chris Ballard
point, and they were really young. I mean, that was 2000.
- [84:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. Coming from B.C.
- [84:18]
Chris Ballard
yeah, that was. So they got there with Scott Pioli had hired him, then John kept him on, and that was in 2013. So, I mean, you know, that was a long time ago, and. But it was fun. It was really fun. I mean, it was a challenging group because they knew what they were doing. And, like, you grow when you can stretch each other mentally. That's how you grow.
- [84:41]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. It's interesting because you've kind of got that tree with a lot of branches and then having some of the Ravens guys. Right. With all the. And some of the brand. We had Ortiz in here and Joe Douglas and Andy Whitele, and so it's. It's kind of cool to see how. But I think both places, a common denominator is competition's the great motivator and drives you, Right.
- [85:04]
Chris Ballard
Yeah. And. And doing it within the framework of team.
- [85:07]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yes.
- [85:08]
Chris Ballard
Which is very difficult for people. And, like, I pride myself on being a good teammate still today. I mean, that. That's. That's, like, the core of what we do in football. Requires good teammates. Doesn't always happen, but, like, to me, that's as important a trait anybody can have is, what kind of teammate are you? And then not just. And it can be very difficult because the money's gotten so big. But we had a. I've been fortunate because every place I've been, I've never had a bad boss. I mean, I have some by choice. I turned some things down, and I was very patient because I believe in people, and I was not going to be miserable. Like, I refused to work in a situation that I was not going to be happy. Life's too short. And so that means, you know, sometimes your career. I think this is my 26th year in the NFL and didn't happen instantly, but I'm glad it didn't, because I look back and I'm like, thank God I didn't take that job. You know, it was just people always. My gut usually told me, with people, okay, this is somebody I want to work with, you know, and be with, because you're around each other so much. Like, you can wear each other out if you're not careful. And if you're working with somebody that got their own agenda, that's not fun. That's not good for the team.
- [86:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm curious. I just kind of think of this as we're talking here. One day we all retire, Right. When you retire, and maybe some people who've worked under you, we know who you're about the person, the teammate, the leader. Right. I think that's pretty public. It's certainly public knowledge within the NFL community. I'm curious, what, what would people who worked with you say? These were his scouting principles. This is why he had so much success evaluating talent. This is what I learned from him. These, these are the things that he was strong on.
- [87:15]
Chris Ballard
Look, they know one, you got to work like that's a gift. Like, you got to put your eyes on the tape. Yeah, okay, we can. And look, I am into analytics, I am into the numbers, I am into thinking differently. But at the end of the day, it's all just a tool, a supplement. Right. To help you watch the tape. And I would hope people would tell you I was very open minded. I'm not close minded. You don't have to make a decision until you have to make a decision. It's okay to be wrong. Yep, it's okay to be wrong. Because at the end of the day, we want to be right on draft day. So between, you know, January and April, when the draft starts, I mean, you've got to be able to process and take in all this information and tape and you're going to see, and I'm telling you, like, you can watch the same game three times, you're going to see something different.
- [88:18]
Daniel Jeremiah
Isn't it crazy?
- [88:19]
Chris Ballard
And, and, but you got to be willing to do that and you got to be able to do it. Like any mistake I've ever made in the draft usually comes because I make my mind up too soon and I don't thoroughly go through it and keep looking for holes. I mean, I've just done it so long now. I've trained myself that if I really love a prospect, I will spend three months trying to figure out why I shouldn't like him. So I would hope our guys would tell you something along those lines that the work, the tape. Being open minded and being a good listener, I hear it all in our room and I want an open room and I want people to challenge and I hear it all because you never know when the one voice is right. And it's hard to be the outside voice in the room when everybody's against you. Like, that's a, that's not for everybody. No, but that might be the one person who's seeing it right. You can't close your eyes and think that this person's wrong. And so I would hope, as you know, and I think we're very, I think we have a very talented group and I hope as they go through their Careers, that's something they take with them.
- [89:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
Let's get to the quarterback position. Right. And I'll let the wolves ask all the questions that they want. And I know you've answered a million of them this week. I'm more interested in evaluating that position.
- [89:48]
Chris Ballard
You and me both.
- [89:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Most important position in the sport. And it's the hardest one to evaluate.
- [89:54]
Chris Ballard
Yeah, it is. Because there's so few of them.
- [90:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [90:00]
Chris Ballard
That can really carry a franchise. So what's. What happens? And we're all guilty of it. And I've kind of like. It's one of the real positives I think of nil. All right. And I, I truly believe that if I was a quarterback, it's not about being a first round pick, about having a career.
- [90:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yep.
- [90:24]
Chris Ballard
And the more snaps you can get in college, no question, the better off you're going to be. I, I would. Every kid I would divide. I said, I don't care if you're the first pick of the draft. If you've got eligibility left, stay and be as prepared as you can because this train does not. When you enter the league, the clock starts and if you got a one next to your name, it starts and it's. And it's ticking twice as fast as any other player in the draft's clock. So having those guys have play history and being ready
- [90:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
is.
- [90:59]
Chris Ballard
I think this nil is going to be very beneficial for both quarterbacks in general. But I think for us, because now they're going to have. If they'll do it, they'll stay in. They'll have longer careers.
- [91:11]
Daniel Jeremiah
We're seeing guys with 50, 60 starts versus the 20, 30 you would sure like.
- [91:17]
Chris Ballard
The more play experience you have, the more you've seen, the better chance you have for success when you get into our league. But look, nobody's cornered the market on knowing exactly what works and what doesn't work. And it takes a little bit of luck. It takes a, you know, you. A kid that's failed and struggled, I think is a good thing because you're. Because they're going to struggle at our level and got told our media the other day and I've said it a few times, like eventually, like there's. It's rare when a quarterback comes in and just lights it up right away and they got to fail. They got to go through some hard stuff. They got to stand on the edge of the abyss and not jump and handle it. I was fortunate to be with Alex Smith in Kansas City who had first pick of the draft, injured benched they let walk him free. He ended up going back in free agency, but it was like year eight before it really came. When we got him in Kansas City, it was year eight or nine, and I'd asked him a bunch of questions about, like, how did you manage it? And I think just his resolve of who he is and how he was raised and who he is as a person, it just strengthened over time. Not many can handle that kind of failure. That's not for everybody.
- [92:41]
Daniel Jeremiah
Well, how about the guy that you. You brought into town last year?
- [92:44]
Chris Ballard
Very similar.
- [92:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's a Daniel Jones. Came in the league with the one next to his name.
- [92:51]
Chris Ballard
Yeah.
- [92:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Very similar in that media market.
- [92:53]
Chris Ballard
Yep.
- [92:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right.
- [92:55]
Chris Ballard
Very similar situation. Even the injury stuff, when you look at that, I mean, Alex had a shoulder that, you know, he missed a year with, so. No, it's a. And. And you're seeing these quarterbacks that are going one place, not succeeding right away, going to another place, and eventually kind of, if they. If they've got enough, if they won't jump into the abyss, yeah, they'll. If they got enough talent, they'll come back around and they'll get a shot at it.
- [93:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
That's changed. I feel like even, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, maybe just 10, that if you didn't make it, it was kind of over.
- [93:35]
Chris Ballard
That's where Alex. Alex was different because he was in Frisco for, you know, seven years. I think seven or eight years before he came to us in Kansas City. So that was a little different. But now. Now it's two years and like, it's panic mode.
- [93:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, it's panic mode. But then. But then we're seeing guys resurface other places.
- [93:58]
Chris Ballard
Absolutely.
- [93:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Which is. Which is different. I feel like they. If you were done, you were done. You're out of this league, you know, so that's.
- [94:04]
Chris Ballard
Yeah. No, and that's one of the. Like, it. Like it's easy to criticize what's going on in college football right now. It's still a great sport with the nil. But saying that I think there's going to be some positive things come out of this in the long run.
- [94:20]
Daniel Jeremiah
Also getting to see what young men do with that kind of money.
- [94:24]
Chris Ballard
Yeah, that's my. I could talk for. Of an hour on leaving and moving schools and what's the ultimate goal? Absolutely. The goal is to make as much money as you can, but eventually that faucet's going to cut off. And if you don't play in the NFL, what's our Next thing degree. I hope you get it. You're used to making a pretty high salary at a young age that now you can actually go into the workforce and they're not going to quite pay you that kind of money.
- [94:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
I wanted to ask you, just because you're here today and the news broke that I think another 22 million for the salary cap. Is that like, are you like a teenager and your parents just told you a higher credit on your credit card? What comes to mind? What immediately do you start thinking about?
- [95:14]
Chris Ballard
When we budget out and we try to keep as many of our own guys as we can. So we've kind of, you know, we've. We've got a pretty good. Mike Bloom does a great job for us. So he does a good job projecting what he thinks it's going to be, and he's usually pretty close. So we've been planning for a while now. And you're not just planning for this year, you're planning for the next two after it, right? So to me, it's. It's always kind of a rolling average of how you're going to keep your team, you know, together and built. And then how can you attack free agency and do you want to attack free agency? That's always the, you know, the right piece has got to be there and you got to find a match and it can't be out of whack. So it's, it's, it's. This time of year is always really interesting.
- [96:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
How do you feel about your team for next year? This is the only question I'll ask like that.
- [96:03]
Chris Ballard
No, no, no, no. We got work to do. Like, I think 8 and 2. Like the start, 8 and 2 was real. But we can't just sit here and act like the, you know, the eight losses in a row wasn't real, too. I mean, those are. That's. That's an issue. You know, you don't lose that many in a. Good teams don't lose that many in a row. And really there's no, like, I don't handle. I don't deal with excuses really well. Like, we've got to learn how to win, you know, the ugly. And we didn't do it last year. I thought at one point early in my career here we did, but we've kind of lost it over the last three or four years, and that's what we have to get back. We have work to do up front and to make. Because I just, I mean, Daniel's. That's a whole nother story. You Know, getting him back in the fold, which we want to do. But I just believe up front, if you're good when you get into December and January, that helps carry you. I feel good about. About where we're going, but we got work to do.
- [97:10]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. All right. Five questions that I ended all of these conversations with. I think people are curious, and we've had a lot of ranging answers. How big is your final board? Like, when you. Would you sit there the night of. First night of the draft? How many players? I know it can vary by class, but approximately how big do you like to keep your board in front of you for draft weekend?
- [97:33]
Chris Ballard
Every year's a little different, but this year, like, I'm hoping we can get to 100.
- [97:41]
Bucky Brooks
Really?
- [97:42]
Daniel Jeremiah
I like it.
- [97:43]
Chris Ballard
We were one, I think, 160 a year ago. We'll hover between 150 to 170. And finally, Ed, our assistant GM, is really good. He's been on me. Let's cut it back. We're going to shoot to try to get it at 100.
- [97:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
You get nervous in certain rounds.
- [98:00]
Chris Ballard
No, we've got it figured out. Dorsey had a formula, really good formula that I use. We use. No, you don't. Everybody, I mean, look, scouting world's flatter than it used to be. Unequivocally, like, everybody's got access to tape. There's not as many hidden gems as I would tell you 15 years ago when I was still on the road scouting, saying that everybody's a different. I think once you get past the super premium player at the top, and it might be five in a draft, it might be 10 after that, it's a crapshoot. 11 through, you know, the next 150. You could look at everybody's board and it would be different. There'd be a lot of the same names, but it would be a different look.
- [98:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
This just kind of popped in my head without the first round, or I feel like we could talk a little bit more at ease. But what do you do in a draft class when maybe three, four of the best players are positions that are not premium positions? And then you get some other players at premium positions that may not carry the same grade.
- [99:03]
Chris Ballard
You don't ever pass up in my mind a hall which you think's an impact player. Like when we took Quentin, that was a criticism. And, you know, he's on his way to the hall of Fame. I just don't. If the guy's special and you think he's a. He's going to be a blue premier player, in this league, regardless of position, you just take him, just take it.
- [99:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
I think that's kind of how the top of this board is going to wind up playing out. All right. There's so many parts of your job, right. You get tugged in all these different directions and I'm sure it's not. When you first got in that seat and went through the first few months. It's probably different than even what you imagined in some ways. But what when you get a free couple hours and what is it that you go back to? What is it that you love the most about this job still?
- [99:54]
Chris Ballard
It's the players like that will never go away. No, it's the players that play the game. That's why we got jobs. I mean I never lose perspective of that. And I think one of the real cool things that we get to do if you just pay attention, like having a guy at 21, they're not men yet coming in this league. They think they are, but they're not. But to watch them go from a 22 year old kid, bright eyed excited to 28 years old still in the league but now engaged or married. They have families. Watching them have success both on and off the field, man, that is that. The one thing I missed about coaching was that.
- [100:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, yeah.
- [100:42]
Chris Ballard
Daily interaction back and forth. All right. Because you really can make an impact in a young person's life when you're coaching. But what I found is like you can do it in this role too. Now they're going to be pissed at me at some point because of money, but I always warn them when they come in as rookies, like hey, there gonna come a time when you don't like me because of finances. Don't let that get in the way of our long term relationship. I'm all right if you're pissed at me for a year, year and a half, but understand that I've got this pie and I can only pay so many. But like I want players to do well. I love to watch them grow and I love to watch them have success.
- [101:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
The challenging part, right? Let's phrase it like this. If you got a, I don't know, 30 plus year old longtime scout who's seeking to become a general manager, he's kind of on that track. If you could go back and almost warn a young Chris Ballard, but someone who you're trying to maybe mentor, what would you warn is the most challenging part of being in this seat?
- [101:53]
Chris Ballard
I don't.
- [101:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
And to maybe prepare for or look
- [101:55]
Chris Ballard
it, I mean, look, I haven't worked a day since I've been lucky. I can't. Like, there's some hard parts of the job that you don't always enjoy, but I don't ever, like, dread them, if that makes sense. I mean, nothing's. Look, we've been five years, not been in the playoffs and having to go answer to the media, which they deserve, like, our fans deserve, that I give them as much time. Those are not easy to do. And I'm pretty real and raw. So what you see is what you get. So they get to see all of it. But that's part of the job. You'd much rather be sitting there after a division championship. You're nice and free, but those are the hard parts. Then the narratives that get sometimes created that are not true, and you can't run them all down. It's just. There's just too many false things out there. So it's hard to. The things you can't control. You've really got to learn to discipline yourself that, okay, I'm just going to focus on, here's the stuff I can control. And then you don't ever want to lose. Like, I tell our, like, general manager is just a title, all right? It's not who I am. I don't. I don't. It's not who I am. And, like, respect goes out, like, for about a month or two just because of the title. People are gonna treat you differently. But eventually, when rubber hits the road, you got to be competent. And people, they have to trust you and your work. And so that. And that takes real work and growth along the way. Because as you go through this and you have these up and down days, and I'm not perfect by any stretch. I have my bad days. But the building's following your lead. Every time you walk in the building, if you're pissed off every time you walk in, man, everybody else going to be pissed off. So I learned that from coach Reed, Andy. Andy was the same guy every day. Sort of loved about him so much. Like, he never, like, win or lose. Like, he's upset if we lost, of course, but, like, he stays on to the next thing.
- [104:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, it's easier said than done.
- [104:05]
Chris Ballard
And I'm emotional wreck on game day. So, yes, I'm not good at some of it.
- [104:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
All right, tell me about a time that you feel like you failed at something that was important, but then what you learned from that.
- [104:16]
Chris Ballard
Look, since Andrew retired, this is a. Like, I'll just take my current, you know, the job, like, since Andrew retired and Look, I knew how special he was. I'm not. I. I knew like when I took the job in Indy, him being hurt when I got in the building and then missing that first year, then coming back and playing and then when he retired, which I respected because of what he had been through, but not being able to get solidify that position for the organization has been extremely, extremely humbling. And. But what I've learned going through that is that, like, you got to continue. You can't get timid about taking shots at the position. You got to just keep firing away and taking the bullets because you're always going to get bullets anyways. So just keep firing away until you get it right. And you can't lose your confidence. You've got to learn and grow of why you made the mistake you made. But don't blame others. Learn from it. Grow and keep. Keep the gun out and fire away.
- [105:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
I like that. All right, this is the most important question. Your draft spread. You're a Texas guy. I've got to believe. I got to believe that you do. You care. You don't care.
- [105:45]
Chris Ballard
I'm not an eater, so. Not on draft day. I mean, like Smoothie King. I live at Smoothie King.
- [105:50]
Daniel Jeremiah
Chris, you can ask. It was going so well.
- [105:53]
Chris Ballard
You can ask Matt. I'm not A matter of fact, I'm on a. I mean, because I'm Catholic. So now I'm. Today's Friday, so I'm fast. I'll fast all the way till tomorrow. And so I'm. I don't. I mean, they do a great job. They cook steaks, but I, I don't. I don't know.
- [106:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
Do you eat after the draft?
- [106:11]
Chris Ballard
Yeah, I'll snack around.
- [106:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
But you don't.
- [106:13]
Chris Ballard
My issue. I snack. I will just graze for 24 straight hours if they have it around, so. But no, it's not a priority with me. I'll let everybody else kind of handle that.
- [106:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
All right. I guess I'm just going to have to move on. I appreciate it, man.
- [106:28]
Chris Ballard
This is awesome having me.
- [106:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
Thank you.
- [106:29]
Chris Ballard
Yeah, I appreciate it.
- [106:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
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- [107:31]
Bucky Brooks
Foreign
- [107:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
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Bucky Brooks
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Daniel Jeremiah
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Bucky Brooks
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Daniel Jeremiah
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