Day Three From the Combine: Previewing the Potentially Historic Edge Class

Summary

The McShay Show — Day Three From the Combine: Previewing the Potentially Historic Edge Class

Host: The Ringer
Guests: Daniel Jeremiah, Mensch, Ryan Poles (Chicago Bears GM)
Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The McShay Show dives deep into the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine, with a special emphasis on a potentially historic edge rusher class. Daniel Jeremiah and Mensch break down the unprecedented depth and athleticism at edge, linebacker, and the intrigue of the interior defensive line group. The show features a substantial interview with Chicago Bears GM Ryan Poles, offering rare, honest insight into front office draft strategy, prospect evaluation, and the evolution of NFL scouting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Combine Atmosphere & Anticipation for Edge and Linebacker Groups

• The Combine, held in Indianapolis, is described by Jeremiah as "the hub of the NFL this week" ([01:17]).
• This year’s buzz centers on the edge and linebacker group workouts, scheduled for Thursday night—expected to be “one of the epic shows we’ve seen at the combine in my 25 years” ([03:37], Daniel Jeremiah).
• Contrast to previous years: Most top edge prospects are actually participating in drills, unlike recent trends where many sit out ([04:56]).

2. Historic Edge Rusher Depth and Draft Impact

• Jeremiah compares this class to 2017, which had eight edge/edge-type players taken in the first round, but notes this crop may be even purer as true edges ([08:35], [10:40]).
• Five "locks" for the first round: David Bailey, Arvell Reese, Ruben Bane, Cassius Howell, Akeem Messador.
• Other strong candidates: Keldrick Falk, Zion Young, T.J. Parker, R Mason Thomas ([10:40]-[11:39]).
• Notable Quote:
  “There’s going to be one of the fastest early runs on edge rushers that we’ve seen maybe ever. And certainly like in the last decade.” — Daniel Jeremiah ([08:35])

3. Profiling Top Edge Prospects

• Arvell Reese is highlighted as a versatile freak whose evolution is reminiscent of Micah Parsons—a potential top 2 pick who has proven pass rushing ability and off-ball skills ([06:53]-[07:39]).
• Keldrick Falk is praised for his unique build and athleticism; “He weighs 285, but you look at him, you’re like how is that 285?” — Mensch ([12:22]).
• The demand for edge rushers is at an all-time high, with up to 6 teams in the top 10 seeking help at the position ([13:01]).

4. NFL Prioritization of Edge

• Edge is now widely regarded as the No. 2 positional priority, only behind quarterback, surpassing left tackle.
• Team-building examples: Seahawks and Eagles’ Super Bowl runs, both driven by deep pass-rush rotations ([14:01]).

5. Hybrid Linebackers and the Sonny Styles Factor

• The linebacker class isn’t as headline-grabbing as edge, but is unusually deep, particularly with versatile, modern hybrids ([19:14]).
• Sonny Styles: Anticipated to have a workout on par with or better than last year’s Combine star Eman Worre, with rare size and athleticism for the position ([21:14]-[21:31]).
• “That group is going to be intriguing. But Styles is going to be the show, man.” — Mensch ([21:18]).

6. Intrigue Around Interior Defensive Linemen

• NFL teams continue to value 320+ pound interior linemen who can stop the run out of light boxes.
• Top names: Kaden McDonald (“premier run-stopping tackle”), Peter Woods, Lee Hunter, Caleb Banks ([25:52]-[26:11]).
• Banks is named a wild card due to injury and interview concerns ([27:25]).

7. Draft Evaluation Trends & Process

• Many prospects are more NFL-ready due to NIL and extended college careers, but the projection gap may shrink as a result ([52:03], Ryan Poles).
• Value of cross-training: Teams want position-flexible defenders (edge/LB hybrids, oversized linebackers) to maximize schematic creativity.
• The Bears (per GM Ryan Poles) use a very focused draft board (120-140 names this year), with strict standards ([50:45]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I’m not overhyping this...this has a chance...to be one of the epic shows we’ve seen at the combine in my 25 years." — Daniel Jeremiah on this year’s edge/LB group ([03:37])
• "Typically what we've seen...is you go through all the edge drills and then...they’ll then do position drills with the linebacker...more space stuff." — Jeremiah on hybrid workouts ([07:01])
• On Arvell Reese:
  "People to understand how good Jamie Collins was...I think Reese’s ceiling is even higher." — Mensch & Jeremiah ([16:18])
• On modern draft philosophy:
  “Edge has shifted to number two. And I think finding pass-protecting offensive tackles is probably still number three.” — Jeremiah ([13:01])
• GM Ryan Poles on handling noise and pressure:
  “I have to get off of [social media] because if I’m acting out of fear or, or acting out of close mindedness, then we’re not gonna be in a good spot.” ([42:46])
• Poles on learning from mistakes:
  "If it goes against being a good teammate...it’s okay to move on maybe even quicker than you think because...the effect it can have on others." ([56:31])
• On draft process:
  “It’s a long process, but what happens is you get a really good feel for the entire board...Your whole staff develops at a very high rate.” — Ryan Poles ([48:43])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:37: Jeremiah frames the edge group as potentially historic.
• 06:53–08:35: Deep dive on positional flexibility and Arvell Reese’s hybrid potential.
• 10:40–11:39: Discussing the likely number of first-round edge picks and draft history comparison.
• 13:01: Edge as the modern NFL's #2 draft priority, with playoff-winning examples.
• 15:44–17:44: Notable Jamie Collins/Arvell Reese comp and its significance for modern defenses.
• 19:14–21:51: Overview of top linebacker prospects, workout expectations for Sonny Styles.
• 25:52–27:50: Trends and strategy for interior defensive line prospects.
• 33:34–59:04: In-depth, wide-ranging interview with Bears GM Ryan Poles, covering:
  • Early scouting stories and influences ([34:08])
  • Evaluating and landing on Caleb Williams ([36:40])
  • Integrating human element and support for young players ([39:15])
  • Strategies for blocking out media/fan pressure and leading under scrutiny ([42:46])
  • Draft board philosophy, draft simulation, and scouting evolution ([46:50], [49:04])
  • Poles’ favorite parts of his job, challenges, staffing mistakes, and personal process ([53:07], [54:40], [56:31])
• 50:45: Discussion of draft board size and its meaning
• 52:03: NIL/pandemic implications for player readiness
• 57:48: The essential, light-hearted “draft spread” question (Poles: sushi and late night pizza/wings)

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Flow, Energy, and Tone

The conversation throughout is excited but measured, packed with field-level insight, and full of friendly ribbing between long-time analysts and insiders. Jeremiah and Mensch geek out over combine specifics, push each other on sleeper prospects, and drop a few classic “McShay is overhyping this class” self-jokes before, as always, landing on why this year’s edge group might actually deserve it.

The interview with Ryan Poles is especially notable for its candor and openness with both process details and the personal tolls and joys of the job. Throughout, the tone is analytical, engaged, and deeply invested in the people as much as the players.

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In Summary

This episode is a can’t-miss deep dive for anyone seeking real draft-room insight or wanting to understand why 2026 could set new standards for edge talent in the NFL. It’s also a rare chance to hear a current GM detail, in his own words, how decision-making, evaluation, and leadership really work behind the scenes in the modern NFL.

For the full mock draft and more, McShay’s report is online: mcshay-report.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Transcript

[Ryan Poles]

Foreign.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

We're live from Indy. It's Wednesday at the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine and we've got some urgency with this defensive line and linebacker group. It's all the talk in Indianapolis right now with NFL teams. Plus we've got another great conversation with the general manager, Ryan Poles from the Chicago Bears. I got news for you, Mensch. Just 57 days until the NFL draft. You good?

[Mensch]

I'm stoked, man.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Tucker, roll that thing, man. You can feel it in the air. It's exciting. Now. We were here Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. It's now afternoon. And with the exception of quarterback carousel talk, you know, the Malik Willis situation. Daniel Jones going back to Indianapolis, Aaron Rodgers going back to Pittsburgh. Who are some of the other guys? I thought it was interesting. Nick Casario came out and absolutely squashed the concept that C.J. stroud could be moving.

[Mensch]

Right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the allnew Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait [e-mail] just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. So that's been the biggest talk early in the week, which is. Which is typical, right? Typically you see like this is the gathering places. You see Indianapolis in the background, right? And thanks to Jake and Nick man boots on the ground. We had the player interviews for the defensive linemen and linebackers going on. They get measured tomorrow morning. A lot of meeting at dinners and going out at night and a lot of agents talking to media personnel and general managers. So all that goes on in Indy. This is like, this is the hub of the NFL. NFL this week. So naturally there's a lot of free agency talk with that coming up. But now as we get closer, it's interesting talking to some, some friends in the league, right? And it's like, hey, tomorrow, Showtime Thursday night. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. From rookies to experts, Tax act helps you navigate every tax play with accuracy guaranteed. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you. Expert Full Service TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. Prime Time. I know I get excited. I'm passionate about what we do. I love what we do. I love the people we work with here. And so sometimes I can be accused, and maybe rightfully so. Of course, I don't know, overhyping things or getting, getting overly excited. I'm not overhyping this when I say this has a chance. On Thursday night, Prime Time from the NFL combine, defensive line and linebacker groups working out to be one of the epic shows we've seen at the combine in my 25 years. Why do I say that? Because first of all, the depth of talent, especially at edge, but also at linebacker, and then the intrigue of some of these interior defensive linemen that could be maybe top 50 picks or with good workouts, could work their way into round one. So it could go from one interior defensive lineman to four, and it could go from five edge rushers to eight. And then you got these linebackers like Sonny Styles. Take, exclude Arvell Reese. He's working out it as an edge. You got Sunny styles, you've got C.J. allen, you got a couple guys behind. So all of a sudden, like, everyone's waiting for Saturday. I get it. The wide receivers, the running backs, the quarterbacks. But I really think the show is Thursday night. And here we are Wednesday afternoon, and I promise you, every conversation I have, it shifted from big picture to NFL stuff to just kind of talking ball in the game. Who you've been watching all that stuff to, like, tomorrow night's gonna be fun.

[Mensch]

Time to lock in. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, I've been waiting on this. Like, it's been great. It's been great all week. But this is what we're here for now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And let's, I mean, we've shared this already this week, and it's all over social media. But the fact that you show up in Indianapolis after the last couple years, some top guys, like, right away you, you plane lands and all of a sudden, someone, you know, when insiders like, yeah, this guy's not working. This guy's not working out. The five of the top seven guys aren't working out. Last year, I remember being unbelievably frustrated as we went through those defensive linemen last year. Remember, it was like a third of the top 10 at each position were working out. We show up here and it said, jeremiah Love's going to run the 40 in position drills, some other information about the wide receivers, right? And then it's Sonny Stiles and Arvell Reese are ready to go. And you know what? I've noticed it's been kind of radio silence with like David Bailey and Cassius Howell and our Mason Thomas and Keldrick Faulkner. I haven't heard anything positive or negative. There's nothing out there. I've talked to some, some people in the league. Everyone kind of assumes this group's going to work out and they're going to follow the lead of Styles and Reese. Love it.

[Mensch]

Love the compete level. By the way, my understanding and reading what's going on is that Reese might do both drills. I don't know if that means he comes back or he shows up with the linebackers to do those drills or he does some things on his own with some coaches. But I heard he's going to do both edge and off the ball stuff.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So typically what happens with that situation and we'll see it could be because he is a unique prospect and obviously you've got several teams sitting there at the top. We know the Raiders are going to take Mendoza at 1, they're going to address their quarterback need after that. It is like it's the wild, wild west with these, some offensive tackles, but quite honestly these edge rushers. And with the jets sitting at 2, the Cardinals sitting at 3, the Titans sitting at 4, not the Giants at 5, but then and maybe and probably not Cleveland at 6. But right after that you've got Washington

[Mensch]

at 8, Chiefs at 9, Bengals at

[Daniel Jeremiah]

10, you know, Washington 7, Saints at 8 and, and Chiefs at 9. And all those teams are in the edge market. So Arvell Reese is here and ready to work out and I think a lot of these other guys are going to wind up working out. And so with the, with those, those hybrid guys, typically what's happened is you, you go through the workout as an edge. Everyone considered Arvell Reese coming into the year as an off the ball linebacker at 64 and change 245 pounds that range, long arms. Then he played 355 snaps on the defensive line at left outside linebacker, right outside linebacker. And that Matt Patricia defense essentially edge, right? And there was. And he spent a whole 200 and something snaps off the ball as well. But he also rushed 119 times rushed the quarterback. So as the season progressed everyone was like wait a second, this guy's not just an off the ball linebacker, right? As a top 10 pick, this guy might be like the second overall pick as a guy who is showing a lot of flashes and potential, kind of like a Micah Parsons did in his career at Penn State and then wind up converting during his rookie year. So that's where we are with him with the workout. Typically what we've seen, I know I keep bouncing around because I get so excited is you go through all the edge drills and then what will happen is when, when you're done with that, there will be hand plucked a few guys that they'll then do position drills with the linebacker. So dropping into coverage, you know, more space stuff. More space stuff. Very well put. Okay, so. So that's the backdrop and that's the excitement and that's what everyone's talking about here in Indy. I want to go through this edge class to give some perspective.

[Mensch]

Okay.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think context is critical because it's like McShay's over hype in this group. Here we go. McShay gets excited, he's in Indy, went out to a nice dinner last night, got some steak, got some shrimp cocktail, and now he's all fired up. Well, how about this? There's going to be one of the fastest early runs on edge rushers that we've seen maybe ever. And certainly like in the last decade. I went back and looked and it's, it's tricky when you go back and look at the history because some guys were off considered linebackers and only recently have, is everyone kind of switched to the edge versus linebacker versus interior defensive linemen. So there's a lot of digging that you have to do. But I did that this morning. That's why I was running late for the show. 2017 is probably the closest comparison I could find. Now there's no Miles Garrett in this class necessarily as it stands right now in terms of the grade coming out. But in that class in 2017, there was Miles Garrett, who was the first overall pick, Solomon Thomas, the third overall pick. Then Hassan Redick, who was considered a linebacker but obviously an undersized edge, was 13 overall. Derek Barnett was 14, Jonathan Allen was 17, Tak McKinley was 26, Taco Charlton was 28 and TJ Watt, considered a linebacker at the time as well, was picked 30. So right there you've got eight edges that went in round one. Here's what I've got for you this year. And it sounds like the vast majority, Ruben Bane is the one we know will not work out for Miami. And it's. I don't want to say it's understandable. I don't want to say he gets A pass on it, but it's understandable because they just played a few weeks ago in the national championship game and my gosh, was he on like, it's like every snap you watch defensively. So there are five locks and jump in here now, Mitch. Yep, five locks in round one, in my opinion, from the edge class. That's Bailey, David Bailey, Arvell Reese, Ruben Bane, Cassius Howell and Akeem Messador.

[Mensch]

I'm good with that. You're about to get to this name. Keldrick Falk I don't think gets out of the first round.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And I was gonna say, I just

[Mensch]

think he's too, he's too talented. I understand the lack of production.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And there are three to four others who a couple of them I believe strongly will be first round picks. And a couple of them, I think honestly if they have great workouts here and they put themselves in the, you know, in this, the category, like if, if our Mason Thomas does some things like Jarvis Landry did with the short shuttles or Micah Parsons did with the439 at his pro day, I think he could wind up getting in there. But the more likely names you'll hear in round one. And I agree with you, Keldrick Falk from Auburn, who I actually liked his tape more than, more than people want to give him credit for. He moves well, man, and he's just a pup. He's one of the youngest players in this draft class. Zion Young from Missouri, who I like a lot more than people seem to. And then T.J. parker from Clemson with our Mason Thomas. Those are four other guys.

[Mensch]

I could see them all going first. I mean, I think they could all go first.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

If I had to bet three of those five fought young or three of those four, Falk, Young, Parker, R. Mason, wind up going in round one, matching up with Bailey, Reese Bain, Howell, Messidor. That would give us eight, which would be equivalent to that 2017 class. And quite honestly, like Solomon Thomas was a five technique kind of Derek Barnett, really good player in college, thought he's going to be better than he has been in his NFL career. Jonathan Allen is more like of a five technique as well.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So this group is more edge. Okay. And, and that's, that's the excitement. I think you wouldn't. Keldrick Fox can have his own kind of fireworks.

[Mensch]

Yeah, it's, he's, I don't think he's going to run a very fast 40, but you're going to keep in mind when you see this kid and we'll see what he weighs in at. But if he weighs in at 285, keep in mind that number between like

[Daniel Jeremiah]

65 and 6 6.

[Mensch]

And you're going to look at him and say that's, that's. How is that 285? I wonder what his body fat is. It looks like it's very low. I mean, just the way, again, the way he carries that weight is very unique to me on tape. The other thing I want just really quickly just to, to put a finer point on it, maybe. I think you talked about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 teams in the top 10 with a knee to edge. So the idea you have the talent plus, I mean, plus the teams that need these guys. I, I'm with you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And edge is always. It has been for a long time in the NFL. I think there was a shift maybe where it was quarterback, then left tackle. Right. As the positions of priority. That was the. Those were the top two. Edge has shifted to number two. Okay. And I think finding pass, protecting offensive tackles is probably still number three. But then you watch the super bowl and the playoff run and you watch some of these defenses with pass rushers and you watch the Seahawks especially, and the depth of pass rushers and you watch the Eagles a year before that winning the Super Bowl. What has won the Super Bowl? Quarterback play was good. And great stories. Jalen Hurts, great story coming back and after some struggles and drafted later than people thought and wasn't all that. And Sam Darnold's one of the great stories in the history of the super bowl, what he's gone through, right?

[Mensch]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But if you really drill down in the tape, both of the. Each of the last two Super Bowls were won by the defensive fronts. Howie Roseman just rolling guys in year after year and John Schneider doing a great job over the last couple years. Guys that you thought, yeah, I don't know. Derek hall is he second round. He's early second round pick, like the sixth or seventh pick of the second round a few years back. Been kind of in and out situational role, strip sack, you know, like. And really started to come on this year and it's just like stacking guys. And so that's why I think teams are more eager and aggressive than ever.

[Mensch]

The environment's there, right? The environment is there. Can we talk about the Mike Reese, Arvell Reese piece, please? Okay, so the great Mike Reese, who covers the Patriots for the absolute favorite

[Daniel Jeremiah]

human beings in this business, just outstanding and great at what he does.

[Mensch]

But he was talking about Arvell Reese's, you know, combine interview and saying that he's an outside linebacker. Arvel Reese was saying he's an outside linebacker. Slash edge. And. And Mike Reese had a great nugget talking about Mike. Matt Patricia, the defense coordinator for the. For Ohio State, who was with the Patriots when Jamie Collins was there, the outside linebacker, slash defensive end out of Southern Miss. And I just. I mean, I just love the comp. Because these are two guys that are.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Look at you getting grass.

[Jake]

They're.

[Mensch]

They're elite athletes, man. I mean, you look at this guy. He was 6, 3 and a half, 250 pounds, 464, 40. He broke the bra jump with the 11. He broke the broad jump record with 11 foot 7 inches. Thanks, Jake. At the time, I mean, a 41 and a half inch vertical. These are guys who have similar

[Ryan Poles]

roles.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

What they can do. And I love the idea. I love the idea of the guy who coached Collins sitting down with young Arvell Reese and saying, this is what you can be, man. And if people. I want people to understand how good the Jamie Collins was.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, no, no, no. I want to even like jump you before, you know, you're going there. Jamie Collins was honestly one of the most talented.

[Mensch]

Like, he's an unbelievable player. Unbelievable talent. Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And had some. Some stuff and all that. But like, from a pass rushing perspective and like, what you look for, he's. I don't know. I. I think re.

[Mensch]

Ceiling is even higher.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I do too.

[Mensch]

Which is.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's.

[Mensch]

I mean, we're.

[Ryan Poles]

We're.

[Mensch]

This is like banana land. Because that's crazy to think about because when Jamie Collins came out, the whole thing was this guy could be.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

One of the greats and he had some good years. Jamie Collins in 2019, ready for this? 81 tackles, seven sacks, three interceptions, including a pick six. It's seven passes defended. No, I do think Reese could play more of a traditional edge role than Collins did. But this is the kind of thing you can do with this player. You can have them move.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Why does it have to be traditional? It doesn't exactly.

[Mensch]

He is a chess piece. He can do whatever you want to do with him. I think if you. If you're going against a team that has a really talented tight end, that could cause problems. Coverage arvo Reese could be your guy. If you have a guy, you have a left tackle that struggles with power and speed, then you got Arvl Reese coming off the edge. I mean, there's so many things that he can do, but I love that nugget from Mike Reese this morning really have my mind spinning because I think it's an outstanding comp.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And honestly, go back to the Scott Goldman conversation we had. Aiq.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

When he, he had the opportunity to feature any player and like there's 318 players at the combine and he picked three other guys that were not like as highly rated, but he, he picked Arvell Reese. Talking about his ability to process information and see the game brilliantly, basically from all different angles. And so Matt Patricia, who's one of the. I hate saying geniuses are good.

[Mensch]

He's a rocket scientist, isn't he? I think he's legitimately a rocket scientist.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He's wicked smart. Okay. He's wicked smart as Patriots fans well know. Maybe the offensive side didn't. But like defensively he is up there with the mines and then you've got the teaching ability. But then to have someone who can absorb that as a first year starter, as a first year coordinator, first year scheme and to do all the things that he did. When you go look at the, even the PFF breakdowns of like where, where he lined up, it was like, my gosh, how you know. So that all said. And I do want to throw up this graphic too, the edge rushers, it's not just. And we'll tie a bow in the edge rushing class. And it's not just that that eight guys, those eight guys that could wind up being first round picks or certainly feel strongly about the top 40. It's beyond that. It's Derek Moore from Michigan. It's. It's Gabe, Gabe Akis from Illinois. I told you, I told you. In March or it's late February, I'd get all these names right. I just jinxed myself. We got Crawford, Overton Height and Hutchins too. So 15 guys that I currently have in our top 100.

[Mensch]

I'm gonna give you a quick sleeper.

[Ryan Poles]

Okay.

[Mensch]

Of a guy I think could pop. And that's Jayson Barham from Michigan who's played. He's another one of these hybrids. Right. This year he played primarily edge. In years past, he's played off the ball linebacker. He's a guy that I think is going to run well as a hybrid and not going to go in the first round. But he's someone who can make some noise here.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I do want to, I want to swap over to the linebackers. Okay.

[Mensch]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And we'll come back to the interior guys. The interior group is intriguing, but I don't want to stack it with what's going on with this edge class. And the linebacker class is not as great as the edge class, but the depth is unusual and we've got a lot of teams that are looking for guys that can be hybrid players. And it seems like there's more need for linebackers this year than normal. And it just so happens there's more depth at this position. Sonny Styles, like when we talk about fireworks, Arvell Reese is going to kick things off at edge and then you're kind of waiting around, you're going to have the interior defensive lineman. And I'm pretty sure we finish up with the linebackers. I think that's how it goes.

[Mensch]

I think that's right.

[Ryan Poles]

And.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But when Sonny Styles and that group of linebackers comes out and it's not just styles like, like Anthony Hill Jr. From. From Texas, is an unbelievable athlete. Cover all over the field. C.J. allen, more of a thumper, power guy, but straight line speed. Jake Galde, supposed to be one of these like Feldman freak list workout warriors and a really good football player. Jacob Rodriguez, like his instincts and all those things won't show up on tape, but I bet you his fluidity will in some of the movements. And I'm told he's going to work out better and kind of shut people up, which I'm excited to see because it's kind of like, oh, what a cute story in Texas Tech. And he just. He was the vacuum behind this NFL defensive line. Nah, nah. This guy's an absolute dude. He's going to be a second round draft pick. Then Josiah Trotter from Missouri, so vastly underrated. Kyle Lewis, most instinctive player, I would argue. He and Bud Grant, the safety Bud Clark from. From TCU to the two guys that made the most plays defensively the entire week of the Senior Bowl. And then Bryce Boettcher, who Dan near murdered one of his teammates in pregame warmups at the Senior bowl, which I just find awesome because they've been going head to head all week. And he thought he was going to get the running back, thought he was going to get thumped and he got absolutely whacked to the ground.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And that's just how he plays.

[Mensch]

Jack Kelly from BYU is supposed to have a big workout too, by the

[Daniel Jeremiah]

way, so that group is going to be intriguing. But Styles is going to be the.

[Mensch]

That's the show, man. That's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I'm hoping he's this year's Eman Worre just for the fun of it, but I. And it certainly. It might not look like It. But why wouldn't it? Because he's actually bigger, right?

[Mensch]

He is.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

They're both six four Eamon warriors was what, 222 or something like that last year?

[Mensch]

I think Styles is close to like 235, 240.

[Ryan Poles]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm told he's like 243, but we'll see if he's leaned down for these workouts. And Orville Reese is an absolute like freak of nature as well. But apparently Styles is gonna have the workout.

[Mensch]

Yeah. I love the idea of Reese coming out and just showing out and then Styles chasing it down.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know what I mean?

[Mensch]

I love that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Absolutely. And it's kind of how the whole year went.

[Mensch]

Can you imagine the competitiveness at Ohio State, how those guys must have pushed each other? And Caleb Downs getting into the Pete

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Carroll era at usc.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Competition Wednesday.

[Mensch]

Elite athletes, elite minds. Like, it must have been fun.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So we've got that and then let's, let's wrap it up with the interior defensive line in this group. Not as deep, but.

[Jake]

Oh, I do.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I did want to say this about Styles. I'm intrigued. This workout, I'm not saying it's going to propel, but if he comes and works out anywhere close to what the hype is and the excitement is, I think we'll start talking about like, okay, highest off the ball linebacker drafted since. And I went back and it's. You go back to 2018. Was. Was Roquan Smith. So yeah, no, that's the linebacker group. It was. Isaiah Simmons was eighth overall in 2020. That's what it is. That Devin White is the one. I'm intrigued. Can he clip or get to that same spot as Devin White? Fifth overall. Back in 2019 there were two linebackers. Was it Devin Bush to Devin Bush and Devin White, both drafted in the top 10 in 2019. 2020. We had Isaiah Simmons at 8 overall and we haven't really had a linebacker, an off ball linebacker drafted.

[Mensch]

You could see the Commanders at seven. Right. That. That seems like the jumping off point. Unless someone trades up, someone falls in love. I mean, I feel like the Commanders at 7, the Cowboys at 12. Maybe those are the two that I think of.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But I'm wondering if it's going to be so special. And, and yeah, no, that's, that's that

[Mensch]

where like someone makes a move. Yeah, you start.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And. And he, he rushed to quarterback 64 times. It was 119 for Reese. He was 64. I'm not saying he's going to be Anything like Reese is a conversion to edge. But I'm saying there's still some pass rushing ability.

[Mensch]

There's an element.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So I do wonder like Arizona maybe, maybe sitting at 3, maybe Tennessee sitting at 4. Could there be a team if it's so special in a class that a lot of the top prospects are position, not non position priorities.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And you're just like, hey, he's just the most physically.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know, so that's gonna be fascinating. All right, last thing. Interior defensive line. There is depth to this group and I like it. I think it's important to kind of share what the conversations are in the league. A lot of teams now as you see when as any NFL fan, right. A lot of COVID to a lot of five Defensive backs are your base defense. You shift from that, that, that base to a dime. But bringing an additional guy in really obvious passing downs. But teams are trying to play that high shell prevent like the Mahomes, Josh Allen's from just killing you down the field. Make them drive the ball down the field. And it's, it's been the trend in the league. But in order to do that you need 320 plus interior defensive lineman because what you're trying to do is be able to be able to stop the run with one fewer defensive linemen essentially you got to have those big 320 plus guys. Okay. So that's part of the deal. And there are guys like that in this class, right. There's you know, Ken McDonald's, Lee Hunter's 320. Caleb Banks is 333. I think it was at the, at the Senior Bowl. Okay. Those guys are in that mix. But also you said Kate McDonald from, from Ohio State is probably the, the most, he fits that bill. The most is just a massive nose tackle. Not only by taking on blocks, but as you and I both have seen on tape, this guy just makes plays.

[Mensch]

He makes a lot of plays.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He's the, he's the premier run stopping defensive tackle in this class. But then the other part of it is and just watch like Seattle and watch the Eagles from a year ago and you know, we got to get to the quarterback faster and in order to do that the fastest, you know, the fastest route is from A to B.

[Mensch]

Straight line.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, straight line. And from the interior. I'm fascinated by Peter Woods, Lee Hunter and Caleb Banks in this, in this workout. I don't think Kaden McDonald's gonna do anything to blow our socks.

[Mensch]

I think he moves better than people might anticipate. But he's not going to blow yourself.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay. What, what do you. Because honestly, right now I think people in the league are like one, maybe two of these interior defensive linemen. If those four guys come out and, and put on performances like really show that the talent's worth it, then I think all four could wind up late in the first. Wow.

[Mensch]

I want to say that I love defensive tackles and I think you're. You are so right. About what? Taking away that interior pass rush, taking away space from quarterbacks in the middle. I agree with you. I just, I've seen too many talented defensive tackles go early second, and it drives me nuts. I think you're right that that's the way it should be. And maybe this will be the class because of other. There's, you know, there's a embarrassment of riches at certain positions and then maybe not so much at other positions. So maybe that's how it all unfolds this year.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I could see it.

[Mensch]

I think I would be fine with taking any of those guys later first if I was a gm.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's interesting about this group too is there's going to be a shelf that kind of falls off after Peter woods from Clemson, who, by the way, I

[Mensch]

can say this really quickly. Sorry, Banks might be the only exception there. I want to know how Banks interviews. I want to know how I feel about him as how he's going to fit in my locker room. I want to know that the tape and the athletic ability and all of that's great. But Banks, I think, has more than the other three. He has some other questions that you're going to have to answer. And, and also missing most of last year with an injury. He's a little bit more of a wild card than the other three.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mentioned on yesterday's show about Banks and like he needs to put out a workout at 330 plus pounds. That makes me say, you know what, it's worth it because I can't pass. I can't pass. And that's going to be intriguing. I think Peter woods, after struggling to reach expectations this year, is going to really turn some heads here. I think he's going to be the story when we leave the combine. But I also think there's depth after those four guys. Let's say they all go in the top 40. Ish. Maybe all four go in the first round. Christian Miller from Georgia is a player that I'm not quite as high on, but a lot of people seem to be. Grayson Halton from OKLAHOMA, Darrell Jackson Jr. Who had the great All Star run, East, west, shrine. Then came to the Senior Bowl. Bryson Eason, who was excellent at the Senior Bowl. Kind of a one technique. Undersized, but just. And great interviews from everyone I've Talked to. Chris McClellan from Missouri's Got some pass rushing ability. Big Orange, right?

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Dominique Citrus. Citrus, sorry, from Iowa. Massive dude up front. Good player. And Rayshawn Benny from. From Michigan, who's got a little bit of as well.

[Mensch]

One. I got one sleeper for you.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yep.

[Mensch]

Xavian Harris from Ole Miss. He's built like Forrest Buckner. He's built like Claes Campbell. Eric Armstead in one significant difference. One significant difference. He's about 40 pounds listed. About 40 pounds heavier than those guys were at their combine. He's 330. All those guys were in the 290, 295 range. I hope he comes in a little leaner here. This kid had 58 tackles. He moves nine tackles for LA loss and three sacks. But you see him wear down on tape. You saw it. Carson Beck running into the end zone on the field, having a hard time. Get up because I think he's carrying too much weight. If you can get him to lean, lean down a little bit, get him a little leaner, I think he could be a good player, man.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The McShay report is out. Dropped this morning. Appointment television. That's basically what it was. Who were the players that like I had. If I was allowed. This is the premise. If I was allowed 10 players, I could only watch 10 players, which would be devastating, obviously. But if I could only watch 10 players and I had to pick, I shared the 10 that I'm most intrigued to see. Wide array of players. So it's the McShay report.

[Ryan Poles]

Google it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Check it out. Mention told you yesterday on the show. Exactly. With 20% off, 30% off. We've got all sorts of deals going on. But subscribe. This is the time of year we got a lot, a lot of information to share. Here's the other thing I want to share real quickly. The intel had a lot of interesting conversations. If you remember last year, didn't share anything till about Saturday when we were here. Because I want to make sure if I hear it from one person and I know it's true, I got to make sure I hear it from a couple other places so that no one's. So I don't. It's like you just heard it from me and now you're going, you know, yeah, yeah, so I got it. I'm sorting through it. Just like I did last year. I promise you, when the time's right, there's going to be some really interesting stuff to share. I also want to remind you I didn't tell you about the Shador stuff that I was locked into on Friday and then found out more on Saturday and then flying home on Sunday and then shared all that information about Shador, which honestly turned out to be the baseline of the Shador Sanders saga last year. And I'm not afraid to admit we were the first to market on all of that. So we got more stuff coming. We're really excited to share and it's going to be a fun week. We also are very excited to share this next interview that we have. It's been an awesome week with these GMs and we're thrilled, honestly, with all of them, how they've been able to just open up. Comfortable here. All of our guys have set this up from Dan Tucker, Nick, Jake, great room, everyone's relaxed. Allison Allison has landed all of these interviews for us and Marisa's helped kind of coordinate it all. But to see these GMs in kind of a comfortable environment talk and honestly, we taped this with Ryan Poles just a little bit ago and I'm excited to share it because the thing I appreciated most and Steve asked some hard questions and we kind of dug in is how thoughtful he was with his answers and not afraid to kind of give you some real stuff. So I hope you enjoy this interview as much as we did.

[Jake]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

[e-mail] we're here with Ryan Poles, general manager of the Chicago Bears. Ryan, we appreciate the time. How you doing, man?

[Ryan Poles]

Doing good, doing good.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Get the car wash done here in Indy. Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Yep. Knocked it out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Let's start with this. I don't have any dirt on you, but I've got some. I've got some good old stories about you and Mike Borgonzi.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Barry Gallup back at Boston College. My swamp Scott guy. You come in as like a, you know, a young pup in that. In that recruiting group. And I want to know about. Then you guys both go to the Chiefs with Pioli, right?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah. Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm not so much concerned right now about, like, how did that develop you as a young scout? I want to know what it was like living in an apartment complex, it sounds like, with you and your wife with those two animals below. Actually, Bergonzi was living with you.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then Sirianni was below you guys or something in that.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, same building. Same building.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

A saint, right?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

How did that go? Come on.

[Ryan Poles]

She is. I mean, shoot, that goes back to college. Being a ga With Borgonzi as well. Living in. In Boston in a. In an apartment where the floor was slanted towards the road. The chair would roll across the floor. But, yeah, I mean, going back to Kansas City, living in that situation, when we got the jobs, like, pay wasn't a thing. We were just so excited to have the job. And we all rush there and, you know, living situation, you just kind of pull your money up to live in the best spot you could possibly live in. And I think it's cool. You get to go through things together and get to know each other, and then eventually for Katie and I to go to, you know, Mike's wedding with Jill, you just build those relationships and you look back on some of the staffs that you work for and see everyone kind of disperse into different roles. Is really cool.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's awesome. Joe Douglas and Richmond and even, like, dejuan Jones and some of those guys. And to see them now, it's kind of a special bond that you have. I'm curious now what helped develop you or what shaped you in this business? I mean, you've been different places. You've learned from some great people. If you had to kind of key in on maybe one or two people, places or experiences that really helped shape who you are now as the general manager of the Bears.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, I go back to beginning in Kansas City. It was really difficult. We had a unique situation where there's a lot of hardship there. And I give Scott Puholi a lot of credit. He opened the door to understand how things got the way that they were. Not only where he was really good and things went right, but also where things went wrong. And I think that openness to kind of, like, owning some of the situations and learning from it is key, because this job, it's constantly changing all the time. So you have to learn, adapt, learn and adapt, and really just constantly troubleshooting. So to have a boss like that be so open and transparent with me in terms of what he was going through allowed me to kind of get a peek behind the curtain and understand the why behind.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, I want to go to Caleb for a second.

[Jake]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

We've had several GMs, been fortunate enough to sit down and kind of pick everyone's brains. I think people sitting at home are curious. We kind of all saw the talent.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But take us through the process a little bit. Maybe some things that people don't know. Was there a certain scout who put it, who said something, or when did you first start thinking that Caleb could be that guy? And you know what I mean? Just tell us a little bit more about the kind of the backstory of the evaluation process. And then maybe when you knew, like, he wasn't the only great quarterback in that draft, when you knew he was. He was the guy for you guys.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah. I think it goes back to his freshman year. I was sitting in a hotel somewhere, I think, scouting, and I saw that Texas game and was, like, floored. Like, who is this kid? Because I had no idea who he was, and that always kind of stopped in my head. And then you fast forward to, you know, you're kind of seeing this path. We have one year where we have the. The first pick. Do we want to take a quarterback here or trade and. And wait for the following year? And so you do a little bit more homework, you start to watch guys ahead of their time through other.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So you were doing that at that point?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah. You want to take a peek forward, kind of see what the landscape's going to look like. And again, just like, really, really impressive. So to lose and have a bad season, get the first pick trade, and for that to come back to you when he's available, it felt like it was just meant to be. But you're also trying to fight your biases in terms of like, hey, we got to do homework on the other guys. But he was the one that I felt was special. I think probably the influence of being in Kansas City with Pat were the openness to the unorthodox play.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

I grew up with Matt Ryan and it doesn't look like that much anymore. There's a couple of guys that are. But it's different. And I think Andy and Veach and John Dorsey opened my eyes to. Sometimes it can look different, but the impact that it can have on the team is incredible. So I think all of that played into it. And then getting to know the person, that's one thing I've been leading into our staff the most over the last few years. Don't take things at the surface level. We got to dig deeper to understand why they are the way they are. And the most important thing is, are they secure in their skin? And Caleb's very secure in who he is. He doesn't care about all that. And in Chicago, you need to have that mentality. With that mentality comes some things that you have to fight against, which, you know, he learned and matured through with, with hard coaching with Ben and was able to take the next step. So that's all kind of in worked into that decision.

[Mensch]

Kind of opens the door for my question. I'm glad you brought it there because I want to get in the human element of it. Unfortunately, in our society, if you're a young, talented kid with a personality, it makes you a target. Right. And he's been a target. There's no question about it. He's a generational talent. I mean, and we all saw what you saw on the tape. Unbelievable player. And then I think you flashback to last year and I'm sure you don't really want to talk about this. I just briefly mentioned it. There was an article that came out that I think conservatively, you could say had an agenda. You might have another word for that piece. Yeah, I think people look at this as a transactional thing. You draft a kid, you bring them in, and then you go back into your office and you start watching tape for the next year. And the reality is you got to make sure these guys are in the right environment. They have everything they need to succeed in that kind of situation. And it's not just with Caleb Williams. It's everyone on your roster, right?

[Ryan Poles]

Correct.

[Mensch]

How do you make sure these players are in a position to be their best to get to where they need to be? Is that something you lean on the position coaches, the head coach? Is that something you get involved with? Sometimes, yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

I think you have to evaluate your whole organization and really be conscious of that when you're. You're building everything out from your coaching staff to your support group performance, team, all the way your team clinician, because everyone comes from different situations.

[Mensch]

What's a team clinician is that someone

[Ryan Poles]

who's like sports psychologist just could be psychologist, because everyone's going through something and you learn that quick in the GM chair. Again, it's not just. Just the performance, the practice, how they arrive in the building. It's what they're going through that night, the phone calls they got now more than ever with Nil. The stresses of. Sometimes they're the breadwinner and they're taking care of all the bills from everybody. And you have to start there. And that's what we do A real good job of, I believe, is starting with the human first and then you build everything out from there. And sometimes that means tough love. We talk about soft landing spaces. That's not what we're about. Were about the truth, you know, in terms of what needs to get done for them to have success. So that's, you know, putting structure in place with their families, putting structure in place with their time. And sometimes that means going through hardship. And I think if you ask Caleb, he would. He would not. If he could go back, I don't think he would change much. I think going through the hardship last year has helped build who he is today.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Poles]

And then the pairing between him and Ben has been incredible because he's so open to like, you have credibility. Everything you say makes sense to me. I'm wide open now. And there's good days, there's bad days. But that willingness to be open, be coachable and just be vulnerable of what I know, what I don't know has allowed him to take the next step.

[Mensch]

I mean, yeah. To give you guys some credit, this season did not, you know, did not get off the start you guys wanted to get it off to. And then you kind of just right of the ship and we're able to make the run.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

How do you block out that? Like, we, we're just outside of Boston. You've spent some time in Boston. I don't think it's that dissimilar. I mean, there's some dissimilarities between Boston and Chicago, but in terms of like the passion and the involvement and it's a, it's a fans right in those cities to, to say what they want to say and they better be heard. You know, there was a lot of noise and you got this young quarterback who is supremely gifted, and now people are coming after you a little bit and coming after Caleb a little bit and coming after the organization. I know we all say block out the noise. We put our heads down. What did you kind of have to do to say, hey, we got this thing, let's hang in tight. There's a storm around us. What did you have to do to show your leadership in that moment?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, I think it's learning through that chaos. I separated myself. I really did. Got off of kind of looking at everything. I was listening to a podcast. I think her name is Brene Brown. And she said the algorithm in social media is to validate what you already believe or to show you what you fear the most. And as it hit me, and no one's like, described it that way, I was like, I, I gotta get. If I'm gonna leave this organization, I have to get off of that because if I'm acting out of fear or, or acting out of close mindedness, then we're not gonna be in a good spot.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Poles]

And that's given me a lot of freedom to kind of weather the storm, but to see things the way they are. There's a couple situations, even with Caleb, where for some reason when things just feel like they're ebbing away from you, it's like, it almost validates, like, especially the, the noise part of it. Like you're close. Like you talked about, like a young, talented kid, like, they get a lot of crap from the outside world. To me, like, so something they see the talent, they see what this could be. So let's just keep pushing forward and get through this and get to the other side. And that's what felt this year felt like a little bit of a breakthrough. And I know you can't take success from last year and bring it into this year. We start over and, and there's a lot of work to be done, but it felt like a breakthrough in terms of, like, all right, we can settle that. Part. Now we can start mastering our craft a little bit.

[Mensch]

There was. This is fascinating to me. And we'll get. We'll move on. I'm sure you have. I know you have a bunch of questions. There was a. And it's not even a question, but there was a Joe. Joe Missoula, the head coach of the Celtics. They asked him about is it fair, the kind of criticism that Jayson Tatum gets, and he was like, yeah, well, he gets to get that criticism because he's put himself in a position. I think that's kind of what you're saying there. Right. If you're not that talented, you're not. You wouldn't be getting this thing.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So you. You. You grind away in your career to get into the position you're in. You make an amazing trade and you get these opportunities. You. It doesn't fall into your lap that Caleb's there, but. But like you said, it was kind of. It felt like it was destiny. To certain point, the first year is kind of a nightmare to a certain extent, based off of what you hoped it was going to be. Then you bring in a new coach and Ben, who. It all starts to click and you have the season that you had.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's next?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, it's. To me, it's the. There's a couple things. One, offensively, Caleb, is the efficiency. You know, you don't want to put yourself in a position where you're scrambling back to win a game in some crazy throw or some overtime, you know, onside kick. You want to put yourself in a position to win the game outright. And the way it's supposed to be played with Ben, we're always going to have a tactical advantage, the way he prepares in his system. So the efficiency in our offense playing faster and more efficiently is going to take us to the next level. And then as we've been like, I knew with Dennis Allen coming in, the scheme was going to be very different than what we were running before, and I knew that was going to take a little bit of time to recalibrate. So the next thing is getting that defense cranked up. You can't help but to watch, you know, and it's not the same defense, but Seattle and how that defense plays. If we can get that mindset, that violence and speed that they play with, we could really pair this thing up to be something special.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. And I've talked about it a lot. Like, I'm a big proponent of when you find the quarterback, he can make up for some other sins that maybe Someone on defense can't. You gotta pair him with a defense to be the closer. As long as you feel like he's protected and has the weapons and has the play card.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Seems like you guys are getting closer and closer to where you want to be. I'm curious if you had to. Well, first of all, let's do this. If you've draft philosophies, are there things that you growing up in this that you've hung onto, that you believe just specifically for the draft that you've really had success with, that you are comfortable sharing, take people kind of behind the curtain a little bit on what you believe works and maybe where you kind of. It was in the infantile stage and when you got to this position, you're like, this is going to be my foundation.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah. I would go back to the process my first four years with Scott, who is, you know, obviously a New England Patriot background. Those how we prepare for a draft was one way. Written reports, you would read your reports. The coaches led a lot of it. But the watch. Watching and reading your reports at the same time wasn't how we did it. And usually like the area and the national guy would come in and read their stuff. And then I got the opportunity to work for John Dorsey, who I think is one of the best evaluators in the league. At some point, someone needs to do a story on John, because in terms of talent acquisition, wherever he's at, they do a fantastic job. Unfortunately, he's with the Lions, but he doesn't get the credit that he deserves in this league on how good of an evaluator he is. But that system that he brought from Ron Wolf to me in Kansas City, how we go through it is a long. I'm sure Borgonzi might have brought it up. It's, it's. It can be anywhere from 10 to 14 days. And you're in there from 8 o' clock to probably 5:36, and you take a couple breaks. Sometimes you eat in there and you're grinding tape and you work. Some guys in that system work alphabetically. Sometimes they do it by high to low grade on average or high grade. And you just. You watch and you watch and you watch. And until you feel conviction, you don't move on to the next guy. So it's a long process. But what happens is you get a really good feel for the entire board. Your scouts, your Southeast sees what's out west, your west guy sees in the Northeast. Everyone grows. The Rolodex of players just grow. So your Whole staff develops at a very high rate. Your pro guys are in there, so they understand what's in the. The draft. So you can compare it to free agency. It's a tedious process, but it's something I really, really believe in. It's kind of cool seeing all of us kind of come from that.

[Mensch]

So does that happen before free agency? That's when you guys do.

[Ryan Poles]

Yes. You got to make sure you complete it before you come here.

[Mensch]

So is that between the combine and.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No, between.

[Mensch]

Oh, before you get here.

[Ryan Poles]

Like around Super Bowl.

[Mensch]

I'm sorry.

[Ryan Poles]

Before you get here. Because now you can create this, you know, what I call like a overlay or a mesh board where you can see the strengths and weaknesses of drafting for agency.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Poles]

So just that process to get us to this point, and then we repeat that in April, again with the coaches grades. It creates a lot of clarity and a lot of growth within your entire group. So that's like process wise, draft wise, something new is, you know, we created a draft simulator that has some analytics built in based on team needs. You're a part of that. You don't even know. Just in terms of. We dump in thousands of mock drafts into this. It is scary on how accurate it gets as you get into April. So that means a lot of people talk late. And what it does is we can just. I can rep the draft 150 times in April before we get to it. And it's just like preparing for a game. It's slow motion. Nothing surprises you because you've worked some of those crazy. You know, someone picked someone right before you or a trade happened, and your ability to adapt and adjust along the way gets really, really high. So that's kind of like a unique thing that we do.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's cool. Polian was the first one to tell me that my mock draft was in their thing, but he had a funny way of tell him. He's like, yeah, get that mother bleeper McShade. He doesn't know, but you get him, you know? So he. He. He found a good way to backhand. Give me a backhanded compliment on that. All right. Five questions at the end. We're doing with everyone. Okay. And I've been fascinated by the answers on this one. I guess it shouldn't surprise me because I've heard all different stories. But to get it from the horse's mouth, how big is your final draft board player? Wise, like kind of on average or ballpark, when you go into the draft, how many players are on that board?

[Ryan Poles]

Probably. I would say it's ranged. This year is going to be the lowest since I've been doing this, but I would say 120 to 140.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So you guys are probably in the lower end. Yeah, not the lowest, but I don't

[Ryan Poles]

play the window dressing game if they don't fit what we do. If we're concerned about an injury, like, then I just move them off or put them in a different zone.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You don't do like the flip upside down and.

[Ryan Poles]

No, there's no. I just want to be locked in on guys that we.

[Mensch]

So a low number means that you. I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, that you're not very high on the depth or talent in a class.

[Ryan Poles]

Is that correct for this year?

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Or any year. Does the number reflect how you feel about the.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, like it'll rain. The. I guess the last few years probably have been a little bit higher once we've kind of kicked out of COVID but then we've entered into this nil space where I think the junior number's going down. There's a lot of guys going, you know, back to school. Look at their grades, kind of use that as their own free agency.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

And it just seems like guys are a little bit more selective when they come out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

This isn't one of the Plan five questions, but do you. Do you find that the guys are more NFL ready now? The misses are fewer because the nil. And they've played ball and maybe that's weeded out some guys from coming out too early or. Or they've gotten to play more ball and they're more developed. Do you find that, or.

[Ryan Poles]

No, I do think that is true. I think they're probably closer to their ceiling. The factor is who's developing them and what system are they in.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So are they bouncing around to three different systems?

[Ryan Poles]

Correct. Yeah, but I think of a guy like Mesador who we interviewed yesterday, you know, a little bit on the older end, but, you know, you see his two years of West Virginia, a couple years in Miami. He goes and gets work with Jason Taylor, you know, along with Bane, and you see this really cool player, you know, and these guys have more refined plans going into the game. So again, I think they're closer to the ceiling. So the projection isn't as great, but you kind of know what you're going

[Daniel Jeremiah]

to get a little bit more outside of winning and being there and celebrating, because that's. Some people have tried to kind of not cop out, but it's like we all want to win. At our core, we're all competitive lunatics, right?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's your. When you get a free couple hours or you. You know what it is, like, what is your favorite part of the job still?

[Ryan Poles]

It's this time of year. It's. It's the strategy in terms of how to acquire the most talent with whatever constraints that you have, whether that's draft picks, players that you can trade, the cap space. There's a lot of different factors there, but I think the strategy is the most. The most joy that I have through this whole roster building deal. And I'd second that with just seeing young players grow and develop. I go back to just Kansas City time, knowing what Travis was, Kelsey walking in the building, and he has grown up a ton. And then see him become who he is with his podcast and, and Taylor and all that. Like, it's just so really cool to see these guys go through that journey, the arc.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

We all want. I think most of us want the top job, and we aspire and we grind, and some people. People have it and some people don't, and some people work hard enough and some people don't.

[Ryan Poles]

And.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And you finally get there, and you're one of 32 and the country's favorite sport in this booming business, and you get there and you have all these visions of how you're going to do it and all this. And then you realize, like, there's more complications, there's more being pulled in different directions. What to you is the least. Your least favorite or the most challenging part of the job that maybe you'd never thought, like, oh, I'm going to have to do deal with this stuff when I get to that spot.

[Ryan Poles]

I would say time.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's a common theme.

[Ryan Poles]

You don't. So, like I said, the joy is the strategy. It's watching tape, being in the draft room with the guys. And there's days you walk out like, what did I accomplish today? Because you were pulled in a lot of different directions, trying to solve some problem, or, you know, there's an issue with the turf and you got to order new grass. Like, there's just. Yeah, it is all over the place. And that's why you got to have a great staff and you got to delegate to keep the process and the ball rolling while you're dealing with some of those. And then, you know, take the burden yourself to jump back where everyone is, meet them where they are, and then kind of make up the work on the back end. But time's A challenge. I got an awesome ea. That's the other thing no one talks about when you take a job. My executive assistant is a rock star. She used to run a company called Organized through Chaos.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

So anyway, anything from organizing my. Organizing my desk to creating white space for me to just to think, to block out reflection time at the end of the day, to say no to meetings when you oftentimes will say, yeah, just add it on. She'll say, no, let's move it somewhere else. To making sure I create micro breaks to kind of get away and refresh and come back. So that's amazing. Yeah. That's one that no one ever talks about.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Don't give out her name because. All right, this one can be tricky. But tell me about a time that you failed at something important and what you learned from it.

[Mensch]

Putting it on the spot.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I know, it's okay. Pause is a powerful thing, man.

[Ryan Poles]

I don't want to get like two.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Like, names involved.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Well, you don't have to.

[Ryan Poles]

I will say this staffing wise, I would say, you know, like the. The theory. Like the talented asshole.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Just there's been, you know, a situation where a really smart person that was. Was doing some really good work, but maybe not the best teammate and I probably held on too long and it created some harm in terms of just stress on other people. So just the learning point there is, you know, if it goes against being a good teammate, which is one of our things, it's okay to move on maybe even quicker than you think because of the, The. The effect that it can have on others.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's great.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right. Most important question I'm going to ask you. We've had some. Your. Your buddy Mike absolutely failed this one. He's a Boston guy and he doesn't have a high expectation for a draft spread. And we. Tell me about the draft spread. Like, is. Is it important for you? You're like, you're the top dog. You get to make the calls. Don't. Don't back down and say, well, I don't know, but is it important? Do you guys have a plan? What do you tell us about your process?

[Mensch]

Please don't say you're a grab and go guy.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, I am. I know you are too. Your. Your mind just isn't on food. It's not until later that it just clicks. You're like, oh, crap, I haven't.

[Mensch]

I haven't had.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Right. So do you have a plan for that?

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, I would say usually it's a. The late Night meal, which is like pizza and wings would be kind of the go to, but I kind of.

[Mensch]

What about Saturday? Is there. Is it a different. Is Saturday a little bit better?

[Ryan Poles]

That's what I'm talking about. Time. It's like you're getting ready for the draft, and someone comes up to you, like, what do you want to eat for draft day? And you're like, no, who's your.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Who's your ea? Your executive. You don't. Don't mention her name. But I think this is something we side business now where we're gonna.

[Mensch]

Because, like, Shade Catering. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Well, but I mean, I would say

[Ryan Poles]

that there's a sushi. There's like a sushi. So that's probably the go to.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay. I can't eat during the draft, and I'm picking a couple little things. I've got like my Diet Pepsis, my Lemon Perfects. But when it's over, it dawns on me like, oh, I'm starving.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then to have a plan in place. So I think the EA needs to. To work on this.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, we'll work on that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What's your favorite food?

[Ryan Poles]

I'm a huge sushi fan. I love sushi. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you're looking so good these days. I don't know. I stay moving.

[Mensch]

Good food in Chicago.

[Ryan Poles]

Did Mike talk about his running plan? No, he's still running.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

He didn't bring it up.

[Mensch]

What's his running plan?

[Ryan Poles]

He just runs forever.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Ryan Poles]

Miles and miles and miles. He used to. I mean, we're at B.C. he'd run down a Fenway and back like every day.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That's.

[Mensch]

Yeah, that's not. But that close. I mean, that's a pretty good run.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, well, it's a time restraints. I mean, I would run around time, too.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Running doesn't help.

[Mensch]

No.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Probably doesn't help you that you're still sitting here with us and we're not talking about it.

[Ryan Poles]

We appreciate you, man.

[Mensch]

This is great.

[Ryan Poles]

Yeah, Thanks.

[Mensch]

I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[Ryan Poles]

Appreciate it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Mensch]

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[Ryan Poles]

Close your eyes, exhale, Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Ryan Poles]

And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Ryan Poles]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

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