Day Two From the Combine: Prospects Under the Most Pressure in Indy. Plus, Titans GM Mike Borgonzi.

Summary

The McShay Show — Key Takeaways from "Day Two from the Combine: Prospects Under the Most Pressure in Indy. Plus, Titans GM Mike Borgonzi."

Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Todd McShay
Podcast by: The Ringer

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This Combine-week episode centers on two main goals:

• Analyzing which NFL draft prospects face the most pressure at the 2026 NFL Combine based on team needs, draft board positioning, and unique storylines.
• Bringing listeners inside the mind of NFL decision-makers, through a detailed interview with Tennessee Titans GM Mike Borgonzi.

The tone is lively, football-obsessed, and packed with intel both from McShay’s insider connections and from the field in Indianapolis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Combine Atmosphere and Draft Positioning (00:06–09:00)

• McShay sets the scene in Indy, remarking on the influx of scouts, GMs, and top prospects beginning their pre-draft evaluations.
• Discusses Brett Veach’s quote on “premium positions” and how the 2026 class features top talent at often non-premium positions (linebacker, safety, RB).
• Early draft order breakdown with McShay projecting Vegas to lock in Fernando Mendoza at #1. Jets at #2, with Mel Kiper mocking Caleb Downs, a safety, to them (“Do they need something besides safety?”).

Notable Quote:

“What's uncommon about the 2026 NFL Draft is that the best players or many of them at the top of a lot of teams’ boards are not necessarily from positions of high priority.” – Todd McShay quoting Brett Veach (02:35)

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2. Prospects Needing a Big Combine: The Pressure Index (15:10–45:05)

Todd and cohost run down their “10 players with the most on the line”:

Quarterbacks

• Carson Beck, Miami
  • Injury/maturity concerns, deep ball questions.
  • “Quarterback three, I think, is up for grabs and I think he’s got a great opportunity here to take advantage of that.” —B, (16:10)
• Ty Simpson, Alabama
  • Needs to solidify QB2 status.
  • “He was the best quarterback in the country after nine games this year ...from the footwork to the pre-snap stuff, that was pure NFL stuff.” —McShay, (29:54)

Edge Rushers

• Cassius Howell
  • Elite talent, production, but “short” arm length; McShay’s personal favorite.
  • “I fucking love Cassius Howell. Quote that, retweet it…He’s not Von Miller, but I got little tiny vibes.” —McShay, (18:23)
  • Needs to post elite athletic numbers to overcome measurables concerns.
• Keldrick Falk
  • Prototypical size (6'6", 285), but limited production (2 sacks, 5 TFLs).
  • Must reestablish as a first-rounder with a strong week.
• Arvell Reese (Ohio State)
  • Noted shifting from LB to EDGE; big expectations on workout numbers.

Offensive Linemen

• Kaden Proctor, Alabama
  • Weight/conditioning questions, raw tape for a 3-year starter.
• Spencer Fano, Utah
  • “Short arms” and relatively small hands for a top OT prospect; needs to confirm athleticism.

Defensive Backs

• Jermod McCoy
  • Top CB talent, returns from 2025 ACL; can he clear medical and show fluidity/confidence?
  • 40-yard dash and arm length will be critical.
• Davis Igbinosun, Ohio State
  • Potential “CB3” off the board; must back up improved tape with test scores.

Wide Receivers

• Denzel Boston, Malachi Fields, Chris Brazell II
  • All massive (6’4”+), high on-ball skills. Must prove they’re not just big, but explosive.
  • “4.55 or faster” is the speed threshold; league wants size and real speed.

Interior DL

• Caleb Banks, Florida
  • “Boom-or-bust” profile, elite flashes but big consistency/maturity questions.
  • “If we’re going to give away a pick in the top 40…we better see that he is, at this point in time, showing us the best version of Caleb Banks.” —McShay, (43:58)

General Comments

• The guys repeatedly stress: medicals & interviews at the combine matter as much as on-field testing. Measurables are scrutinized at positions like EDGE and OL.

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3. Trends and Warnings: Fastest 40s & Their Pitfalls (45:43–48:48)

• McShay lists likely contenders for the fastest 40 this year: Brenden Thompson, Malik Benson, Dion Burks, Barion Brown.
• Provides a cautionary tale: a long list of the fastest combine 40s from the last 20 years, many of whom flamed out in the NFL.
  • “Buyer beware. …Look how much higher [these names] went in the draft, and how little it meant.” —McShay (47:00)
• Instead, McShay values big WRs who can hit 4.55 or better.

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4. Interview: Mike Borgonzi, GM, Tennessee Titans (52:11–75:19)

Personal & Professional Journey

• Borgonzi describes his Massachusetts roots (“Everett guy”) and how that football-obsessed culture shaped him, along with a detour into banking before a fateful career pivot.

Climbing the Ladder: Coaching to Personnel

• Got his NFL break via connections from BC, then a long stint in Kansas City (16 years).
• On learning the business:
  “I wrote letters to try to get GA jobs and just kept on getting rejected. …I emailed Barry Gallup, …walked in and interviewed, and …was working in recruiting.” —Borgonzi, (55:16)

Adapting as GM: Biggest Challenges

• Dropped into Tennessee after years with KC, with little time to prep pre-draft.
• “You get hired … and hit the ground running. …The season’s over and you get dropped right into it.” —Borgonzi, (57:28)
• Key lesson: budget your time; constant interruptions (“It almost becomes like a therapy session with everybody.”) (72:00)

Philosophy on Team-Building

• “You want to stay disciplined to the board …but there is a marriage of need and value.” (61:39)
• “The first thing you have to do [after drafting a QB] is protect him.” (68:10)

Titans’ Approach to Young QBs

• Hired Brian Daboll (OC) as a critical move for Cam Ward’s development.
• Stresses importance of continuity, relationships, and matching scheme to player strengths.

Decision-Making

• On the information-gathering behind selecting Cam Ward: “The first time I actually met Cam was at the combine …just his retention, his knowledge …was impressive for a young kid.” —Borgonzi, (65:26)
• Relied on background work, prior coaches, and his own film study despite limited firsthand time.

Favorite & Least Favorite Parts of the GM Role

• Loves connecting with people, building culture.
• Hardest is “budgeting your time” and constant demands.

Building the Draft Board

• Titans aim for a final board of ~200 names (“comfort point…for me now is probably around 200, under 200”). (69:00)

On Failure and Lessons Learned

• “We’re so intoxicated by talent…but the other component…is the character piece…and sometimes you can give in on it.” (72:54)

Draft Room Rituals

• Asserts for a draft spread: “Good pizza…Bianco sausages…” but really wants to get the food right for his crew. (73:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I fucking love Cassius Howell. …He’s not Von Miller, but I got little tiny vibes.” —Todd McShay (18:23)
• “If you're not ready to run, don't run.” —B (10:09)
• “My intel was at the Senior Bowl: [Ty Simpson] was still a week or so away from being able to throw.” —McShay (28:13)
• "You always want to support the quarterback... the first thing you have to do is protect him." —Mike Borgonzi (68:10)
• “We're so intoxicated by talent. …The other component is the character piece…and sometimes you can give in on it.” —Mike Borgonzi (72:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:06: Episode/Combine atmosphere, Brett Veach’s draft philosophy
• 09:00–15:30: Physical/medical update on prospects; who’s not working out
• 15:25–45:05: The “Pressure Index” — 10 prospects who need strong Combine weeks
• 45:43–48:48: Fastest 40-yard dash segment; NCAA-NFL disconnect
• 52:11–75:19: Full interview with Titans GM Mike Borgonzi
• 61:39: (Borgonzi) GM philosophy on draft ‘need’ versus BPA
• 68:10: (Borgonzi) Team-building around young QBs

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Final Notes

• McShay, as always, emphasizes insider knowledge while keeping the discussion practical for both scouts and hardcore fans.
• The Pressure Index segment is a must-listen for draftniks and those tracking combine rises and falls.
• The Borgonzi interview offers rare, candid insight into how a GM approaches his first years, with actionable lessons on team-building, self-discipline, and leadership.

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For draft junkies, this episode is a treasure trove—don’t miss McShay’s raw evaluations, detailed context, and the unique perspective from Tennessee’s front office.

Transcript

[A]

Day two of combine coverage here from Indianapolis. We've got intel to share with you. We've got a general manager who sat down with us and gave us a lot of good intel himself and also 10 players that absolutely need it. You know what? We need the clock to stop rolling because there's only 58 days left until the NFL draft. Mensch, you good?

[B]

I'm good, man.

[A]

Tucker, roll that beat, please. Let's get right into it, men. We've had a busy day. Already taped a couple GM interviews, one we'll share with you later today. You can feel it now in the streets. I'm out walking in the morning. You're seeing scouts and general managers and everyone from around the league. The players are showing up, talking to scouts who had interviews with the defensive lineman. As you see here, the edges, the interior guys are getting ready to work out on Thursday. We've had a lot of GMs and head coaches at the podium, sharing with all the media. And look at this beautiful setting. That's where our hotel is, right there in the. In the circle. It's not a square. And we're enjoying our time here, man. We're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the allnew Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the wait list@scout motors.com just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scout motors.com for details. I thought this was interesting. Let's just dive into it. Brett Veach had a kind of a quote that I saw and he's not one of the guys we've talked to yet and we'll sit down with him. And I worked with Brett with the Kansas City Chiefs when I was doing pre preseason games for them. He may had a quote. I'll read it to you. Actually, he says at the end where this is talking about premium position players. This is the biggest story in this year's draft. I believe you can talk about Mendoza. We kind of know how that's all going to work out. Then you get who are the best players in this draft. And what's uncommon about the 2026 NFL Draft is that the best players or many of them at the top of a lot of teams. Boards are not necessarily from positions of high priority. Right. This was his quote talking about Sonny Styles, the linebacker from Ohio State, Arvl Reese to a certain degree, although most teams have just kind of shifted him to that edge designation and he'll be working out. This is not breaking news, but it's kind of a nugget for you. Arvell Reese will be working out as an edge in that edge group. Okay, so Sonny Styles, Jeremiah Love, the Notre Dame line running back, and Caleb Downs, Ohio State safety. This is what he had to say. At the end of the day, you want a guy who's going to be a great contributor on the field and off the field. Stick to the mantra take the best player available. But then there's also so much talk about you get premium players in the draft and you get non premium players and free agency if you can. So a lot of differing opinions. And let's not also forget Brett Veach is the general manager of a Kansas City team that's sitting there at number nine that may want Jeremiah Love running back to fall to him. But he's saying take the best player

[C]

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[A]

I only use that as a jumping off point. You know, I'm not a big quote guy from this media frenzy where everyone gets up on the podium. I'd rather just sit down with them as we have with Elliot Wolf yesterday as we did with with Mike Borgonzi from the Tennessee Titans. Today we'll have Ryan Poles, the general manager for the Chicago Bears is part of our show, I believe tomorrow. And we've got three or four more general managers lined up to talk to you this week. We're kind of pumped about it honestly, because it was one of my visions. Like I just don't think the general managers, like people don't get to know him. It's a transactional relationship with this gm. Oh, he sucks, man, he drafted this player. What a horrible free agent movie made or man, he's so good. He had this trade and we got all these draft picks. But like get to know the person behind these decisions. What goes into the decisions? What are the backgrounds? So we've done a whole decision maker series on this and GMs. GMs have been awesome, man. Great discussions because it's friends with a lot of them. A couple of them I don't know that well and now I feel like I do and like exchanging cell phone numbers and so that's been cool to see. But I see this quote from Brett Veach who I do know pretty well and it's interesting only that I start to look at this draft board right Vegas picks at 1. They take Fernando Mendoza. Lock that in we all know and we can have the discussion should they are they ready organizationally for him? Is he Drake May? Is he J. Caleb? Caleb Williams? Jayden Daniels? I tried to merge those two names for a second. That wasn't going so well for me. But he's going to the Raiders at 1. Then you've got the jets at 2. Who I saw Kype today. I didn't read his mock. Mel, I didn't read your mock. Never read your mock unless a producer told me. I had to read certain picks to argue about but I saw something on social media where it was a big buzz. Mel loves his buzz this time of year. He's not at the combine so we're going to get some. I love you Mel. Caleb Downs, number two pick to the Jets. Interesting against the grain. My God. Do they need something different besides a safety but that's neither here nor there. But they really could use a wide receiver. They potentially I think more edge. Yes Arvell Reese makes a lot of sense but then Arizona offensive line edge Tennessee offensive line and wide receiver. We'll talk to see what you guys think after after you listen to our interview with with Mike Borgonzi just awesome Everett guy. Another Masshole running an organization in the league. We love it. Giants wide receiver offensive line. They need interior defensive line to that run defense half horrible but they some guy they got to get five Cleveland just got off the phone with one of the Cleveland radio stations talking offensive line wide receiver. Do we take alignment or the receiver first? Washington edge corner linebacker. Washington's at 7. That's the first time you look at a team and say huh Also could use a safety so you get down to seven before a team would have to do what Brett Veach is saying. Just take the best player on your board. How does this play out is the question. You know because New Orleans then running back possibility. Chiefs at number nine running back possibility. That's kind of that 789 is where I could see if you're trying to match value with need. A Sonny Styles, a Jeremiah Love, a Caleb Downs.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Does it shift differently? Maybe it's Kuyper ahead of the curve with Caleb Downs going to. Because he's one of the best three or four football players in this draft. Or are we going to see these edges and a quarterback and edges and offensive lineman and maybe a wide receiver sprinkled in there with those first six picks?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, recent history tells us that, you know, that's. I love to say that too. Everyone loves to say take the best player available. And you. I mean, it would be an easy draft. Your mocks would be so easy because this is how they're all going to roll off the board. Right. Ask the Raiders if that's maybe the best approach. Last year you get Ashton Genty, who is a heck of a running back prospect. They weren't ready to support him. They take him at. I think it was seven. Correct. I mean, that's, I mean, he. The talent's there, the value is there in terms of who the player is, but at the same time, you had other needs and probably could have addressed other positions and put your. That guy in a better position to succeed. So I get it in a bubble and he's a great, great talent evaluator, but it's tough to really do that and pull the trigger. Downs, actually A2 is interesting to me because I do think they need a, A culture, you know, a tone setter. And Caleb Downs can absolutely be that guy. Even with that being said, it's tough to avoid, to not target one of those other positions. In my mind,

[A]

there's intel and it's not like breaking news or anything like that, but we're starting to get a clearer picture of who's working out and who's not working out. And then I want to get to some of the guys that absolutely have to have great weeks in Indy. And we're not the biggest, like analytics guys. There's a place for all of this involved and the workout numbers at certain positions, certain measurables. The measurables that matter that we've got talked about, like they all factor in, some are more important than others. And the week here is critically important for the interviews, the medical. And then you get a medical recheck if you need that. And so there's a lot of those guys we want to get to that. Maybe it's not just the workouts, maybe it's some of the medical or the character, whatever it is. So we've got 10 guys we want to get to. Here's the, here's the information we have of this at this moment. Jordan Tyson and Reuben Bain will not work out. Reuben Bain is choice. Jordan Tyson is. He's still recovering from was a hamstring injury, a leg. Leg injury. That honestly makes sense. Like if you can buy yourself another three, four weeks to get right, train and run the best time. I understand that.

[B]

Can I just. I understand and I think you're right. If you're not ready to run, don't run. But it's unfortunate for him because of the injury history. And now we have another thing of well, the kid couldn't run at the combine either, so.

[A]

Totally agree. Some other players games missed also a season missed in between transferring from Colorado to Arizona State.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if you don't have the injury

[B]

history, it's a little easier for him. It's unfortunate.

[A]

You know, the thing people should know is Jordan Tyson from Arizona State if clean medically, if there wasn't that history and concern, he's like, it's tight between Cornell, Tate, Makai, Lemon and Tyson. And I think you've seen this start because now when you're watching film, there's not a big separator between those three. Yeah, they're different kinds of receivers in different ways, but they all are very similar grade. But now as teams are starting to talk a little bit and scouts are getting word out and I think you're seeing like media wise Tyson starting to kind of lag behind those two.

[B]

Right. Yeah, I agree.

[A]

It's because of what we tried to tell people a couple months ago. That's going to be the thing with him. And so to your point, it's not ideal that he's not ready. But also don't go and tear something exactly. So that you can't go to your pro day and work out. You can't have private workouts and all of that. So he's doing the right thing. It is just unfortunate.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So Jordan, here's what, here's who's in this year.

[B]

I know this is. I'm excited about this.

[A]

Jordan loves running a 40 and doing all the position drills more than probably thought might happen. Arguably the best player in this draft, Arvell Reese is working out as an edge. As we told you, Sonny Styles is working out as if you watched yesterday's show. Sonny Styles may be this year's Nick Eman worry, like get the viral stuff ready, you know, get your thumbs working because he's going to do some things that are just he and Arvel Reese, I think are going to be too. The biggest stories coming out. There's a reason there's, they're working out here because Ohio State guys like that 39 yard downhill 40 in Columbus. Right.

[B]

There's a lot of schools that have this reputation. But yes,

[A]

Makai Lemon is doing, he's doing position drills. He's not running his 40. He's going to wait till the USC pro day to do that is my understanding. But he'll do the position drills. So the only two guys that I know of definitively who are out are Bain and Tyson. Doesn't mean that they're the only two. We obviously have a bunch of guys who we just know who aren't working out that I won't mention here because of some of the injury stuff that occurred. So with that as the backdrop, I want to get into the 10 players that have the most on the line is what we're calling it. But quite frankly, like, these guys need it the most. I think this, this week is the way I'm in my mind framing it at least. But I do know that you have some really exciting information to share about, about the McShay report, and I'm glad I don't have to shill for, for once.

[B]

Yeah, put me on the spot. Let's see how this goes. Yeah, we got a sale. We got a sale. 20% off the first three months, which is a great deal.

[A]

20% off. 20 off.

[B]

Get in, get in. Now listen. Get in. Get in. Now.

[A]

Is that coming out of.

[B]

I, I. Listen, we'll talk about that in a second. So 20 off for the first three months. Or you know what an even better deal is? 30% off for a year. 30% off for a year. And think about the year you get all the. I don't think people understand.

[A]

I do wonder who the geniuses are who are sitting back and like punching numbers and you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

They got all this, you get all this draft prep, and I think you may be like, oh, well, why would I do a year? Think about all the. You're getting ready for the college football season. We do so much stuff. Then you want to know about guys going into the year where they are.

[A]

20, 27 draft, we're getting monster drafts. What are we doing?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And listen, that's, that's why Dan had you read this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My daughter needs a new pair of shoes, man.

[B]

And listen, McShay's nice. He's not that nice.

[A]

So you get, you get.

[B]

It's, it ends next week. So you got to get in now. And the reason it ends next week is he's not going to have to discount that stuff. We're going to come out of the combine. People are going to realize we're really

[A]

starting to top 100 is rolling out right after the combine.

[B]

And McShay, who's going to take that nice little offer, he has 2.0s in like two weeks and take it away.

[A]

But tomorrow, though, all joking aside, and we appreciate everyone who does subscribe, go to Google, just Type in the McShay Report and hit the subscribe button there, and you can subscribe for free. But the premium stuff's going to start to roll out, and it's just that time of year. Tomorrow we have appointment viewing. These are the guys that are appointment viewing, and maybe a name or two of these will be in that list. But we're going to roll out 10 guys, and we've got some. Some other interesting nuggets to throw in there as well. So it starts tomorrow from the combine for the McShay report. It will be in your inbox if you subscribe, and you don't have to go searching for it. So that's the pitch on that. Why don't you kick things off? You're going to do five guys. I'm going to do five guys. The most on the line. This comes with intel, talking to people. Like, we're very fortunate to have the contacts that we do and talking to people in the league, and these are the guys that they're talking about. Like, man, we need to see something from these guys this week or else it might not play out the way that they're hoping, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, a player that jumps out to me immediately is Miami quarterback Carson Beck. And I get it that we're not talking about a top 10 pick. We're not talking about a guy that's interesting.

[A]

He's got no buzz.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I get the Mendoza stuff. And he's not working out here. I should have mentioned that. I thought that was obvious. But everything's about Ty Simpson here. Because we saw Garrett Nussmeier. Right. At the senior.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so he's kind of checked that box. Clear. Here we go. But Ty Simpson is the big story. But Carson Beck has been kind of. It's been quiet since that national championship game.

[B]

Yeah. There's three elements to it for him. Right. I mean, you start with the fact that the medical. He had a serious injury to his throwing elbow at the end of the 2024 season. And, and look great last year and held up really well. But I think there's. Teams are still going to want their medical professionals to get in there and check it out. I think the interview process is going to be huge for him. You know, some of the stuff that he like, why did you leave Georgia? How are you handling your business going into the season? All of that stuff's going to, going to come up and it gives him a great listen. All of these guys you can look at as they. There's some pressure. Great opportunities though. This is a great opportunity for him. And then I think when you get to the on field workout, we're going to see the deep ball. You know, watch the tape. You got some concerns about the deep ball. How does he throw the deep ball here? And it won't be. And it won't be. Listen, everyone's always like, well, it's not his receivers and he's not used to these guys. You know what? If you know that and I know that general managers and decision makers know that too, they're going to account for that. So it'll be interesting to see. I just want to see how he, how it, you know, like lets it rip and I hope he just lets it rip and lets it go. I think he's got, you know, that quarterback three, I think is, is up for grabs and I think he's got a, a great opportunity here to take advantage of that.

[A]

You're talking about the three after Mendoza being Ty Simpson, Beck and Nussmeier.

[B]

I think Simpson's probably going to be two, I think, but Beck and Nuss Meyer and who in that kind of a battle for who quarterback three will be and can he get three?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, you're right.

[A]

I just misunderstood what you said, but you're absolutely right. Okay.

[B]

Cassius Howell, dear guy, you love it.

[A]

Cassius Howell. Cassius freaking Howell, man. I Classic, classic. Watched him in September screaming on this show about this guy is next October. Same kind of. I did a lot of tape on him. Like we're preparing for our shows or weekly show, all that stuff. Love them. Kind of put it on the shelf because I got all these other guys to watch, you know, and every position. But we're talking about David Bailey, we're talking about Keldrick Falk. Why is the production not there? Keem Mesadore and Bane from Miami throughout the national championship. Then we get to the, we get to the Senior bowl and it's, it's Zion Young. Loved his tape, by the way. It's Derek Moore. It's Derek Moore from Michigan. All the R Mason Thomas coming off the injury. Let's go back and watch the first nine games before he got injured against Tennessee on that 71 yard touchdown run. I just went back to Cassius Howells tape last night because I'm finishing up the top like let's call it three tiers. The first two plus rounds of edge rushers. I fucking love Cassius Howell. Quote that retweet it that I am in love with Cassius Howell. I'm not saying he's Von Miller but I watched the Von Miller tape from Texas A and M and I got like little tiny vibes. It's not the same thing. Don't get carried away. What I am telling you is I kind of. So he was up here early on my draft boards like early in the process. Then we got Bailey doing his thing and Bane and Messador and. And all I'm hearing from scouts in the league is yeah man but it's like 31 inch arms and I'm like yeah, that's a problem because you look at like the measurables that matter literally start with arm length for edge guys and then you look at the guys in the league with sub 32 inch arms at edge and it ain't pretty. And you get down to guys who have a 3:1 to start a 30:1 and I'm told he might be sub 30:1. I hope he some like does that to his shoulder but still. And you're going to get a lot of Nick Herbig, right? Because Nick Herbig is the only guy with like that low 31. I think it's 31 and a quarter or something inch length. He was a fourth round pick out of Wisconsin. I love Nick Herbig.

[B]

You did love Nick.

[A]

I love Nick Herbig. And now he has seven and a half sacks this past year. But he's also playing in Pittsburgh and he's got a pretty good guy named Watt opposite him. So there's a lot to factor in. And you know what? If the floor for Cassius Howell is Nick Herbig, you're not pumped that you spend a first round draft pick on him. But it's not a horrible floor. I think throw the floor out. I think I don't understand why people aren't talking about him as maybe the third best edge in this class. And that's like I think he's better than Mesadore.

[B]

You're talking. Yes. You're talking David Bailey from Texas Tech, Ruben Bane from Miami.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And then Howells in the mix.

[A]

Yeah. And so I say all this because. So why is it so critically important? Because I can't change his arm length. His arm length is his arm length. Hopefully he has a friendly scout who gives him a quarter of an inch or something. He's gonna be around 31 inches and that is troublesome. Okay. But I do want to say this. You know who else was in the 31 inch range that people don't talk about because he was an off the ball linebacker. And it wasn't made that big of a deal at the time?

[B]

Parsons.

[A]

Micah Parsons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

31 and a half inches. Okay. But he ran a 4, 3, 9. Yeah. And he had a 1 5, 9, 10 split. And he had a 6, 9, 63 cone. And he had a 4, 4 0, short shuttle, which actually wasn't. It's not outstanding.

[B]

Right. It's good. Not outstanding.

[A]

But you look at what's important at that. At that edge position. If you're talking about these elite speedsters I love. I think he's so much more powerful than people think. I think he plays with more sand in his trunk than his frame indicates. I think he actually takes on. I don't think. I know. I watched it again last night and I was losing my mind texting you at like 11:30pm he takes on double teams and even if he can't win it, he's. That son of a gun is going to find a way to hang on and make a play. So what I want to see from him here is your arm length. Is your arm length. Is he ready to work out and put up numbers that give us the. You know what? He's Harold Landry. I went back. I'm so sick in the head. I went back and watched Harold Landry BC last night. I dusted off that tape. Watch Harold Landry at BC and then looked at his numbers. He was 62252. Okay. Parsons was in that same range. I think you're going to see that Cassius Howell shows up at around that same range. Parsons ran a 4, 3 9. Landry ran a 4, 6 4. Landry had longer arms. 32 and 78 inches. 3 cone was 688 faster than Parsons. 6 9, 6 short shuttle is what got him. Everyone said, well, his 40 wasn't that great. And he's always 62 2, 52. And his arms are still not ideal. 32 and 7, 8. But he ran a 6 8, 83 cone in a 419 short shuttle. Wow. So I need Cassius. I'm Speaking to you, Cassius. Give me that single shot right now. Cassius, I need you to give me numbers that help me support that. You are one of the top three or four edge rushers in this class. Because I'm willing to die on that hill with you. I think he's going to be special. And this is a defense, a positionless defense in the NFL.

[B]

Now

[A]

we got Benitos and Herbigs and Parsons and Jalen Walkers floating around everywhere making plays from all over the place. Cassius Howell's got a chance to be special, but if he's going to be drafted like a spot special player, he's going to have to put up those kind of numbers.

[B]

Take a breath.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And let me. Let me translate for Todd here for a second and shut me down if I'm wrong, but I just kind of need to protect you from yourself. He is not saying the cash is Howell is Micah Parsons. Just to be clear. I don't want everyone going off because he's not saying that.

[A]

I will also say I'm saying that though. I think he's got a chance to be a special player in the league. And I love Zion Young. And by the way, I love Hakeem Messador. I think this edge class is like. Is grossly.

[B]

You love everybody. I don't even know who you are anymore.

[A]

I actually like Keldrick Falk.

[B]

We're gonna get into him in a second. Calm down, calm down.

[A]

Go next.

[B]

I really like the player. I don't know if I can go as high as you're gonna go with them, but I think if I would be kind of surprised. Early second I think is the floor for that kind of a player. I think. I think he should go in the first. Lee first.

[A]

Oh, I think he should go in the top 10.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

20 picks in this draft.

[B]

Listen, I hear you.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Let's get into Kelder folk right now.

[A]

If Jalen Walker can go in the top 20, why can't Cassius Howell?

[B]

I like Jalen Walker's tape better.

[A]

Oh, you're. No. Nope.

[B]

I'm just telling you I do.

[A]

No, no, that's fine. I won't accept that as an answer from you.

[B]

I'm not allowed to have my own opinion.

[A]

Jalen Walker was a. Was a hybrid combination guy like this guy gets after your ass.

[B]

He does.

[A]

As a pass rusher. Proven right. 20 sacks the last two years.

[B]

I love the way he gets in. We talk about the short arms. I love the way he gets into guys frames. I love how he Works off contact as a pass rusher. He's not just a guy that's running around people. I do feel like he has a tendency to always work outside instead of mixing in inside moves. I think guys are going to pick up on that in the NFL. I want to see him kind of flesh those things out. He can do all those things. I think he's going to be really good. I just, you know, I might have preferred Jalen Walker and sue me for that. Sue me for, for liking a guy who you love last year too, by the way. You act like you're like, you know, like Jalen Walker. You love Jalen Walker. We can, we can like them.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I just have a preference for. I think Jalen Walker was a better prospect. We'll get into Keldrick Faulk right now. You mentioned him already. A little bit. The production. Let's talk about it.

[A]

Not good.

[B]

Two sacks, five tackles for loss. He had no, no sacks over the last eight games. Right. So you're, you're worried about that. It shows up on tape. It's. It's a little of an up and down ride. Right. But there are things you say get, you know, God doesn't make many like them. Right. Keldrick Falk is listed at six five, 285.

[A]

I think he's listed at six six, 285.

[B]

It's. I had six five. You had six six.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. I think he's a tall drink of water.

[B]

He is 20 years old.

[A]

I know he's one of the youngest players in this entire draft. So he's 20 years old.

[B]

You're looking at that. You know, you don't have a finished product. And when. I mean this as a compliment, he. He doesn't look 285 on tape. And what I mean by that is he looks like a. He looks like an NBA power forward. He looks like he's 235, 240.

[A]

Today's NBA, not our NBA. Growing up in the 80s.

[B]

He just. The way he carries that weight. Yeah, he's not Anthony Mason. The way. Yeah, he, the way he carries his weight is impressive for a human being that size. This is a player that we talked about maybe potentially being in the top five. We came into the season. Obviously, the production hasn't been there, the tape hasn't been there. I think he's got to have a good week, kind of stabilize things. We talked about TJ Parker doing it at the Senior Bowl. This is Falk's opportunity to do it here. I Think he can. I think he will. And I think when we come out of this week, we're going to be talking about Kelder Falk back in that earlier than he's going now because you've, I think you had him in your last mock and correct me if I'm wrong. Sliding behind Messador. I think Falk's got a chance to really move back up boards with what he does here.

[A]

I'm telling you, when we're done here, I think let's count them. If we're, if we're counting Arvell Reese. Arvell Reese. Bailey. Bain.

[B]

Oh, so yeah, Bailey. Yep. Bane.

[A]

Howell. Messador and let's say Parker. Parker. And we're missing one.

[D]

Zion Young.

[B]

Is he gonna get in there?

[A]

I think Zion Young is an absolute dude and I, I get it but like, I think Zion Young's got a chance to be really, really good.

[B]

We're at eight.

[A]

That's eight. I think there could be eight edge rushers in the first round. Dan, look that up. DraftHistory.com let's give him a plug. DraftHistory.com Once time we had.

[B]

I love that site.

[A]

Have we in the common draft had eight edge rushers in the first round? I think we could. I think this group is.

[B]

I don't think you're right.

[A]

I think we're all talking about how great this group is but I don't think we've contextualized it enough because maybe there isn't Abdul Carter and I would argue, I think we're probably more hung up on there's no Miles Garrett or there's no, there's no Bosa brother or even though they, but they had all their flaws too. Remember they ran a 4, 8, 2 and a 4, 7, 8. Like so I don't know, I think this chance, I think this edge class has got a chance to be special and I think we're going to see that in the first round. All right, let's keep it moving. Yep. Ty Simpson is the next guy for me. My gosh, does he need a big week and I think he's going to deliver. I think the thing, and I've said this before and I don't want to beat a dead horse. He was the best quarterback in the country after nine games this year. From the footwork to the anticipation to the pre snap stuff that he was doing, that was pure NFL stuff to understanding where to go with the ball post snap to apps like he's a schedule guy. Like he had the whole offense on schedule. He like was organized. And I know these are words you're like, Whatever, McShay. I'm telling you, when a quarterback coach is sitting down to watch this stuff and to see what he's doing and how it translates to what you're doing in the NFL, there's an ease in that. And then the arm's better than people want to give him credit for. And will we see that here in Indy? I think probably so. And that will help people, general managers, quarterback coaches, offensive coordinators, head coaches actually get to see him throw the ball live. And then most importantly, is the. Is he healthy now? He had. Now it's reported gastritis. I've never heard of that one before, but it's some kind of down to 190 in the Rose Bowl. He's normally 210 fought through. He had that rib injury. He didn't start throwing. My. My intel was at the Senior Bowl. He was still a week or so away from being able to throw. Okay. No. No protection. Late in the season after Venables figured out how to beat that protection is what I saw. And I've kind of confirmed with some other people. And a run. A run game that, like didn't exist.

[B]

Non existent.

[A]

Yeah. And Nick Saban's still punching holes in walls and Bear Bryant is trying to get out of the casket. Like, you can't run the ball and be Alabama and finish 126 in the FBS or whatever it was. So. Oh, and by the way, your star wide receiver, who's Jeremiah Smith? One one, you know, one A, one B. It just disappears.

[B]

So Ryan Williams took it on.

[A]

Ryan Williams. Jeremiah Smith and ryan Williams were 1A, 1B all those things. But no one cares about excuses. People want to see where are you now? Are you 210 or are you 203 and you're kind of getting back to there. Is your arm better than people say? We haven't seen it. There's a lot that he has to show this week. And then you get to the interviews and meeting with teams and that's where I think he's going to kill this process.

[B]

He's going to crush it.

[A]

And so I've said 13 all along is the starting point for the Rams with Ty Simpson. And I'm still not backing off of that yet, even though I understand why. You could say, well, does Sean McVay really want to go from Matthew Stafford to an undersized guy with good arm strength, but not that, you know, sure. I'm not convinced of anything. We'll get more intel, but I think that is a sensible spot. And they also pick at 29 and there's teams between them that could be looking quietly lurking. Jets obviously at 16, Browns at 24 and could be others. This is a big week for him to kind of turn that momentum around, solidify himself as QB2.

[B]

Yeah, I hear you. I'm looking forward to it. To me, it's the interview process where he's going to make his hay. We'll see about the throwing, but we

[A]

want to see health, we want to see size will be important, all those things. All right, go ahead.

[B]

Alabama offensive tackle Kaden Proctor. We mentioned him yesterday a little bit. We talked about how we think he's going to have a strong workout. I'm telling you right now, he better. The tape's not there. Like there's no other way for me to say it without getting into specifically and overly critical right now, but the tape's not there for a first round offensive tackle like we thought the Caden Proctor would be. The other thing that concerns me and I think is going to come up during the interview process. I want to see what his weight is. There was a lot of, there was a lot of talk about how great it was that he got down. He got his weight down during the season and coach DeBoer started to use him in different ways and start giving him the ball. And everyone loves when the big man gets the ball. Myself more than anyone else. That's all true. Why was your weight up? Why was it up in the first place? They said that he lost 20 pounds and he was down. He was down to 363.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're at 380 pounds. I'm concerned. And then when you look at the tape and you've had that much experience, three year starter and the footworks raw and you're in, you're. You're doing things that I think are frustrating to watch as an offensive line coach. And so, I mean, Kaden Proctor's got to have a nice week.

[A]

You know who else has to have a nice week? Jermod McCoy.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

He's got to come out of witness protection now. It's time to like, you know, he turned down the Senior Bowl. It's all like my understanding is it's all been in preparation of this. And to give you a little backdrop to Jamal Mccoy, the most talented cornerback in this class. Press man, Guy Smothers. Wide receivers gave up, I think opposing quarterbacks at like 56.3 passer rating against them. Fluid, smooth, fast Ball skills, all of it. But he ACL. Torn ACL in January when working out last year, 2025. Okay. And hasn't done anything. But there was talk about him coming back for the season that wasn't there. Talk about him going to the Senior bowl. Wasn't there. Now he needs to show up and he needs to get like, the medical checks aren't obvious. Like, any jerk can write that he's got to clear the medicals. Yeah, we know that. But I want to see him work out. I want to see this guy compete. I want him to come out and be like, yeah, I am the number one cornerback. Mansoor Delane's an awesome player, but like, come on, I'm the guy. Come show us that. Jermad and by. And how do you show that? The two most important things I tell you all the time with cornerbacks and NFL teams, like, tell me about your arm length and tell me about your 40 and his arm length is his arm length. You hope 33 is the outstanding. He's probably going to be like the 32 range. That's what you hope for. But the 44. 4.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Is kind of the number if you're talking about a top 1015 pick for a corner who hasn't played in a year. You want to see him come out and burn and then you want to see him in the drills, the fluidness, the turn, you. And honestly, I want to see the confidence in those athletic movements as an evaluator. I want to see. I know what he looked like in 2024. I saw the oily hips, I saw the acceleration out of cuts, plant drive, you know, But I want to see him do it with like, confidence, like, got the ball. Let's go. Here we go.

[B]

As a team. Would you have questions about why he didn't play this year? Is it going to be medical or is it going to be. Did you make a business decision? Is that any of that's going to.

[A]

I don't really care that much. I just want to know he's healthy, he's confident in his health. His doctors are health. Are confident in his health, our doctors are all that stuff. And then I want to see it. I'm done. I don't want to hear, like, I don't want to hear stories. I want to see it on the field. Miami picks at 11, Dallas picks at 12. That's the jumping off point for cornerbacks in this draft. If McCoy is going to be one of those two picks or if he's going to fall to 16 to the jets or to 20 to Dallas? You know, I think this. This week is huge for him. Who do you got next?

[B]

Here we go again. I know you hate this conversation. It's my guy, Utah offensive tackle Spencer Fano, who is going to have his correct name. Is it Fano?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I keep saying Fano. Yep, Fano. All right, fine. You could have told me off air, but you waited, apparently. Anyways, here we go again. Short arms. I know everyone's gonna hate me. And men, she didn't like Will Campbell at LSU last year because he had

[A]

short arms, as my kids say all the time. You're a hypocrite.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And I'm gonna hear it this. We'll talk. We'll get into it deeper, but he is gonna have shorter than ideal arms and supposedly.

[A]

What's the word?

[B]

33.

[A]

What was will Campbell's.

[B]

Do you hear about his hands?

[A]

What was Will Campbell's.

[B]

I can't remember now. It was like 32 and a half at the. At the All Star Game, but then it went up to, like, 33 and something at the combo combine.

[D]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, his tape I like.

[A]

So you're gonna. You're gonna die on that hill. Same arm length.

[B]

I. Well, I like his tape better.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I. I think it's less of an issue for him on tape. You know what's strange, though, is I suppose he's gonna have very small hands, so he's got to come out this. There's two things. One, he's got to come out and have the workout that we expect him to have.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I fully expect he's going to take care of that. But you have to keep in mind, as expected, one of the least surprising things every time this year, what happens. Quarterback class starts to heat up. The offensive tackle class starts to heat up, and that's what we're seeing, right? These Monroe freeings are coming up. Blake Miller, for some reason, is getting a lot of buzz. All these offensive tackles in the league.

[A]

I've been talking to guys since November who have been like, break.

[B]

I know, but we're seeing that these guys, all these offensive tackles are starting,

[A]

and I love how people are starting to take credit for. I was the freeling guy. I was the Blake Miller guy. Like, we've been trying to tell you since November that these guys are in the same. They're viewed in the same light as the Fanos and the. The Maui Noah and. And Lomu, like, higher than Lomu. All that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

No, no, you're good. So it's starting to heat up and so you. I mean, I've had him as my number one offensive tackle. He's got to go out there and say, I know what you saw with the length. I understand that. Look at the tape and look how I move on the field. And I think it'll be between him and freeling of who has the best on field workout. Those guys are just. If you like big athletes, guys that can move the big ballerinas, these guys are going to be the guys that you want to watch.

[A]

You know, some other big ballerinas we're going to be able to watch on Saturday. Denzel Boston, Malachi Fields, and Chris Brazel ii. These are ballerinas at wide receiver, and they're big. Yeah, 6-4209 is what Denzel Boston listed as. Malachi Fields is verified at the Senior Bowl. Six' four, 218 pounds. And Chris Brazel II from Tennessee is six' five, 200 pounds listed. Okay, I want to see the smoothness. I saw it all. Like, here's the deal. If we're going to go organizational chart here. In and out of breaks, like agility, that kind of stuff for a big receiver. It goes Brazel fields, Boston. If we want to go speed, straight line speed, it goes Brazel, Boston fields. This is on tape. You want to see ability to adjust and all that kind of stuff. Honestly, all three ball in the air, adjusting to the ball. All three are awesome at it. I might go Boston Fields 1A, 1B and then Brazel. But like one ABC. I want to see first of all, with Brazel and Denzel Boston, what's the true size? Is Denzel Boston going to be 6, 0, 27 or is he going to be 603.78? Is he going to be closer to 6, 4? You know, I want to see Brazel. Is he really 200 or is he like 197? Because he looks kind of lean, but I want to see him like 205, like working up the weight and still running well. The number I care about, the number that truly matters, everyone in the league that's great runs a 4, 5, 5 or faster. Just about everyone. Go, go do a search if you want. You want to go. Who are your best receivers in the league? Start with Njigba, right? Go all the way down, whoever they are. 4, 5, 5 is the number, in fact, and we'll get to this at the very end. I don't care about the 4, 3, 5 and faster. I just. I don't I actually kind of don't want them for the most part. I'm worried about the durability. They're tight for a big guy like this. You give me a four, five, two, I'm gonna celebrate it like a smaller. Like if Makai Lemon, he's not running if. If Omar Cooper Jr. Runs a 4, 3, 9, I'm gonna celebrate that 439 for Omar Cooper Jr. Who's a tough son of a guy. I told you. I absolutely love this cat. Reminds me of Jarvis Landry. But with speed, I'm going to celebrate the same level. If I see a 4, 5, 2 or faster for fields and for Boston and for Brazil, I better see something close to a 4, 4 0, because that's his game.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But those guys, I think there's a lot on the line to go, like, get under that line and show that they have that competitive speed down the field. Because now we're looking at three dudes who are six, four and above that can run really well competitive in that range and can do it all with the ball in the air.

[B]

Yeah, I'd have Boston a little higher on some of those lists, but that's fine.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

Hey, Ohio State corner Davis Nig Benosan. Great job. Great job. Last year at this time, there was some consideration about whether or maybe a little earlier in the process about whether or not he would declare for the draft. And it was the penalties, right? Too many penalties, too many holding. He really cleaned it up this year. Had a much better year. Now he's got a chance to come down here and have a great workout, run well, and I think put himself in that. That corner. Three conversation. The third. He could be the third corner off the board. If everything goes this goes well this week. To think about where he's come over the last year and the opportunity he's created for himself. I think he's. And look, it's a. That's why he needs to have the big week. Why he needs to have the great workout is because there is that log jam. There's a. There's logjam in certain positions, and after the top two corners, there are a number of players that could be that third corner off the board. And I don't think he was in that mix going into this year. And now I think he's put himself in a chant, given himself a chance to maybe do it.

[A]

There's 21.12 miles per hour. The Senior bowl fastest player there. That was measured on the zebra technology, I'm told. He could run in the four threes, man.

[B]

And we talked about that four four number. Yeah.

[A]

With his length and you get him in the right scheme fit, I think. Yeah. And playing with Patricia helped.

[B]

It's funny you mentioned that because I was going to bring that up too. I think that may have helped him.

[A]

Yeah. Here. Yeah, here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Trish is one of the great teachers. Everyone we talk to, GMs, coaches alike. He's one of the great teachers and one of the guys in the league

[B]

and compete has never been a problem with this kid. I mean, he is one of the most competitive guys out there.

[A]

Last one I'm going to go with is Caleb Banks. Because I thought Caleb Banks, the big defensive tackle, interior defensive lineman from Florida. He's listed as 6, 6, 6, £335. Not listed. That's verified from the Senior Bowl. I thought there were moments when he got pissed off and he flashed and he was awesome at the Senior Bowl. I thought there were more moments where he just was going through the motions. So if I'm going to draft a guy who's got maturity questions as a player and quite honestly, where is he in his development and his. In his. Like, you can't be this talented and not reach a level unless you're up and down in terms of what you're putting in. So I've got to see that A, he's been putting it in. I want to see where his weight is, his body fat. I want to see his flexibility. I want to see those things on the field. I want to see it five, two or faster on the 40. And you say was an interior defensive lineman. He doesn't have to run 40 yards. Yeah, but I look at the measurables that matter for interior defensive linemen. Number one on that chart. Correlation to NFL success, 40. And there's very few guys that have ever been 330 plus that have run a 4520 or faster. He's going to be a rare company if he can do that. And on tape he looks like someone who could do that. So come out here and show that. Okay. Because here's the thing. As a general manager, this is what I know the conversations are with, with Caleb Banks. I know him because I'm having them with these guys. I better be betting on someone who's so special, talent wise, that I know he hasn't gotten to where he should get. I know he's not making the best decisions. It's up and down. It's erratic on whether he was going to, hey, he was Shutting it down for the season. Then someone in the family found out that his draft stock was falling. So he comes back and plays a little bit. At the end of the year, he wasn't going to play in the Senior Bowl. Then he was going to play in the Senior Bowl. Then he went to practice, but he wasn't going to play in the Senior bowl game. Then he was going to play, then he wasn't going to play, then he played. Teams recognize this guy's going to need a little, you know, but if we're going to put that effort in and if we're going to give away a pick in the top 40, maybe late in the first round for a player who, talent wise, might be one of the 10, 15 best in this class, we better know that talent is so special, and we better see that he. In this point in time that you talk about free agency, contract year, he better be working his butt off right now to get to show us the best version of Caleb Banks. Okay.

[B]

We just heard a general manager talk to us about being intoxicated with talent and the danger of that, and it's. This is. This is exactly what we're talking about.

[A]

So I'm urging Caleb and it's too late now if he hasn't already. But I would be urging Caleb if I was in Caleb's corner and his team.

[D]

Camp.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Camp. To go intoxicate some people here, you know.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Last thing I want to do here before we let go. And by the way, one of the most. All of them have been fascinating in all different ways.

[B]

This one's great.

[A]

Mike Borgonzi is one of my new favorites in the league. Okay. And that's our list right there. The combine pressure. Pressure index. I like that. Dan, way to show up. Flying in from LA last night, creating a graphic. Those are the guys. And I had my. The big guys at wide receiver. And you had the. What'd you have?

[B]

I had the tight ends not named Kenyon Siddiq.

[A]

Did you actually talk about that?

[B]

No, because I did six guys by accident, so I did. Igbo Nosten was my fifth. I do more than I do. I carry my weight a little more than everyone else.

[A]

We tried to cut you in pre, but we can't cut you in post. So we're just going to live with what you gave us. I want to get to this.

[B]

I messed it up, apparently. Whatever.

[A]

Wide receiver. Not wide receiver. Best, fastest 40 times. Here's a list of the guys I think could win it this year. Tell me if there's anyone else on that you want?

[B]

I hate this game, but go ahead.

[A]

You don't even have to. Xavier worthy has the fastest 40 time of all. Take that graphic down. Xavier Worthy has the fastest of all time.

[B]

The toughest job.

[A]

Tucker's one of the best human beings of all time. I know people have ever.

[B]

Maybe stop abusing him anywhere.

[A]

I don't abuse anyone. Brendan Thompson from Washington State is the odds on favorite. Favorite. If you look at some fanduel. If it's Mississippi State or Mississippi State.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Malik Benson is up there. Oregon. Yeah. Dion Burks, Oklahoma.

[B]

We're going to be talking about Benson.

[A]

I think Barry and Brown. My guy from LSU ran 20.87 at the senior Bowl. Not as fast as igmanosin with that 21.12. You know who else is? I mean, we've talked about it before. 21.02 miles per hour at 228 pounds. Mike Washington. He's gonna be fun to watch. Yeah. Anyway, Brendan Thompson's the name that everyone's waiting, you know.

[B]

Right. He's the guy.

[A]

Then it's Malik Benson. Dion Burks, Barion Brown. I've heard a little bit about Desmond Reed, Pittsburgh, but those are the guys. Here's my warning. Buyer beware. Now you can throw the graphic up top. Look at these names. And look how much higher they wound up going in the draft. Chris Johnson had a great career. Darius Hayward, Bay bust. Iman Figures. Didn't figure it out. Ty hill, Jacoby Ford, DeMarcus Van Dyke, Josh Robinson, Marquise Goodwin. Like, you know, injuries. As I talked about the tight, tight twitch. Dre Archer, running back from. Was it Kent State? He was a max.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

J.J. nelson, UAB. I want to say I don't remember testing me now. Keith Marshall, John Ross. Remember the track star? Cincinnati had to have him at pick nine, I think it was in 2017. Ran a four, two, two. How'd that work out? Dante Jackson, Zedrick Woods, Baylor. Dante Jackson was Maryland. Zedrick Woods, I think Baylor.

[B]

I think that's right.

[A]

Henry Ruggs. Unfortunate. We'll just move on. No. Combine held in 20. 21. Kalyn Barnes, 4 2, 3. D.J. turner. 426 and 23. Xavier Worthy, 4, 2, 1. And then Maxwell Hairston, who I love but didn't have a great rookie year either. Buffalo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a scary list, man.

[B]

It. It is. And it's, you know, it's. It's interesting. It's. Everyone gets excited about it. It's like it's like the olympics with the 100 meter thing. And I, and I love to watch it too. I love to watch these get the guys get out and go and you can see it almost immediately when they get out of the gate who's, who's got a shot at it. And it's all very exciting and I love that part of the combine. It doesn't translate as well as you think it would and it's, it's interesting.

[A]

Get me four, four, five, two big receivers. I'm happy. All right. I'm underselling it to say that this is an awesome conversation. Mike Borgonzi, come to find out, I didn't even realize we have a lot of the same ties as you're here in this. So do you. As well mentioned, I'm pumped. You know Brian Dabels, like, I believe in him. I'm excited to see him there with Cam Ward, with Robert Sala, who I actually think is going to have an awesome second run, learn from some of the mistakes, get away from that organization, get to an organization now that has.

[B]

You mean the jets, not the 49ers, by the way.

[A]

The Jets. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

You leave.

[A]

Hey, hey, Sam Darnold. You leave the jets to go to the 49ers to get fixed up so you can go out and be the best version of you.

[B]

This is the path.

[A]

This is the path. So you got Salah, who's ready to roll a second time around. You've got Gus Bradley, who I believe in as a defensive coordinator there with Salah. They land their guy in Dable, right, who they were worried he was going to get the Buffalo head coaching job or maybe another one of those head coaching jobs. And then Mike Borgonzzi coming from the Chiefs and with quarterback. So you get the offensive like they're building something special here in Tennessee. And you guys will see as you watch this. I'm a big fan of Mike Borgonzi and this is a really cool conversation. Hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

[C]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. One of the most useful things in my life lately has been my Apple card. Great for game nights, vacations, just life in general and applying was so easy and quick. You can apply, see your credit limit offer and if approved you can start using your card in minutes. Do it while watching a basketball game. You could start making purchases with Apple Pay before halftime even rolls around. I also love how I can get up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. That's more daily cash to use for game tickets. I feel like I scored big time when I started using Apple Card. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone. Start using it right away with Apple. Pay subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You know, with just one trip to Whole Foods, you can travel the world. First stop, discover the taste of the Mediterranean with big sales on brands like Deco, Oreos, and San Pellegrino. With Whole Foods prepared foods, dinner is solved. You can roam the world with empanadas, burritos, soups, and more. Maybe expand your snack repertoire to South America with colorful and crunchy Peruvian potato chips. Then straight to Mexico. For dessert, you can pick up a tres leches family pack cake for only $10 every Friday. All aboard. Save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market.

[A]

This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car shouldn't feel like a second job. It should feel easy. With Carvana, it is. Just visit Carvana.com to your license plate or VIN, answer a few quick questions, and get an offer in minutes. Like what you see, we'll pick it up right from your door and hand you your check. No haggling, no hassle, no problem. Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Welcome in. Here we are with Mike Borgonzi, the general manager of the Tennessee Titans, and appreciate you being with us, man.

[D]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[A]

You're an Everett guy. I mean, there's massholes everywhere in the league.

[D]

There's massholes everywhere. We call it the Northeast Mafia.

[A]

Exactly. So it's good to see that continued growth. Take us back. I want to actually just dive into your background. And obviously you played at Everett, you went to Brown, played there, but what is it about your background that maybe early on started to shape who you are today and what you wanted to do?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, growing up in Everett, it was a football town, right? So, you know, dbiazo, the coach, used to say, you know, you don't get a pacifier when you. When you're born and ever you get a mouthpiece. So it was a big part of my life early on. You know, Pop Warner playing through Everett High School for the great John DiBiazo, legendary high school coach there. And, you know, just the. The people there, the coaches, the teachers I had there was a big part of it really shaped me. And football was a huge part of my life. I have a younger brother, Dave, who's the linebacker, coach now with the Titans, but he's been in the league now 15 years. So it just, it was something that. It brought the community together all the time and it was always a big part of my life.

[A]

I remember at Richmond, for me, it wasn't long. It was like probably warming up the first day of practice. And in summer camp my freshman year where I was like, I'm not going to the NFL, you know, but when, when was it for you where you realized I'm not going to play at the next level or I'm not going to be. That's not going to be my long term career. But man, I love this game and how can I stay in it?

[D]

Well, for me, I was probably a little delusional coming out of Brown. You know, I played there for four years and you know, had had some workouts, had some tryouts and then I ended up getting into coaching at Amherst College as a tight end coach there. And then the Green Bay Blizzard called, so I drove out there.

[A]

Right, right.

[D]

I was out there for two weeks, broke my foot, drove 19 hours straight back to Boston and was like, what am I going to do with my life now? So, you know, I was a business management major at Brown. So I ended up working at State street bank for, for a few years. And there was one day I was on the, the Orange Line.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

Coming in.

[A]

I worked down there by State street too.

[D]

Somewhere between like Sullivan Station and, and, and downtown. I just said, you know what, I gotta get back into football.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I walked in the office that day and gave my two weeks.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, it's aggressive.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Walking away from a banking job in the State street to, to get into this mess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From there. Right. And we know your background with the Chiefs and everything, but so what was the next step and how did some of the playing and coaching affect or positively affect what you've become now in terms of personnel and general manager? Yeah.

[D]

So, you know, I was very fortunate to catch on with Boston College. Barry Gallup.

[A]

Barry's a Swamp Scott guy.

[D]

Swamp Scott guy.

[B]

Right. Northeastern guy.

[D]

So Barry recruited me at Northeastern. He was head coach in Northeast when I was coming out of high school and I randomly. Tom o' Brien had left the staff, went down to NC State and I was working all these odd jobs because I couldn't get back in. I probably. I wrote letters to try to get GA jobs and just kept on getting rejected. So I get into. I was a personal trainer. I had about three different jobs at the time. I was working the Night shift at Budweiser, trying to make money. I was trying to get back into coaching somehow. So I randomly just emailed Barrett Gallup. When I saw that I had the Boston Herald with me. I had a Dunkin Don'ts Cup. I walked into Healthworks. I was a personal trainer there. I emailed Barry Gallup saying, do you have any positions there? I saw that Coach o' Brien left, and he emailed me right back, and he said, I want you to come in the next day. And I interviewed, and Jeff Jagasinski hired me. So I was there for two years. I was working in recruiting there. And in that back room there, we had, you know, Trey Cozio, who's with the Beers now.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

Ryan Poles ended up coming on after. After he had his stint with the Beers. And then I was also the liaison there. So, you know, I would meet with all these scouts that came in, and we had Matt Ryan there at the time. Gosner, Charles B.J. rogers.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So we had a ton of scouts coming at the time. It was a good team. And, you know, I just. I made some connections. And Scott Pioli, there's a connection with Scott. A couple of Everett guys that went to school with Scott in Central Connecticut State. So he hired my brother as an intern with the Patriots a few years earlier, and he gets his job out in Kansas City and hires me. And I went out there with Poles, and I was out there for 16 years.

[A]

That's wild.

[B]

So it's interesting to me, you get the job last year, middle of January.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Now you get free agency. You got to get the draft. You got to find your franchise quarterback, got to hit the ground running right now, this year, new head coach, different challenge. I'm kind of wondering what those challenges are like for you, and are you looking forward to the third full draft cycle where you have a little bit more stability and everything in place? Because it's got to be difficult.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it is, you know, for the public that. Don't you get dropped right in. Because we were still in the playoffs in Kansas City, and I interviewed for a couple teams, and I was, you know, fortunate enough to get Tennessee job. Really wanted that. And, you know, we were playing Houston that week and get the job on a Friday. I think we were playing Houston on Saturday. So I flew down there, you know, on Tuesday. And you get hired and you do the press conference, and you hit the ground running. And the day later, I'm at the east west game, you know, and so it's like you get dropped. Right. It's different from the head coaching cycle. Right. The season's, you know, it's over and so you get dropped right into it. But of course, you know, you're going through free agency. You know, I was going through free agency with Kansas City and we had ended our meetings and, you know, have gone through some of the draft meetings there at the time. But, you know, looking back on it now, you know, fast forward now to a year, you know, having a new staff and just, you know, getting on the same page with them. Just the vision of what, what type of players they want, you know, scheme changes. So what Coach Sala, what he wants for his defense. And then, you know, we're fortunate to get Dabel down here too. Who I worked with dabel back in 2012 with Kansas City. So I've known, you know, Brian for a long time and so, yeah, so now it's, now it's exciting. You know, you get to come in almost together here and we're getting on the same page just in terms of what type of players we want right now. Right now.

[A]

I found it interesting, right? You know, you're with Andy Reid, with, with Mahomes and, and you see kind of, you just mentioned Ryan Poles and kind of the growth from year one to year two with Caleb, and you guys wind up, you wind up hiring a defensive coach in Saleh who. I mean, I can give you my opinion on it. It doesn't really matter. I think it's. He's. He's a tremendous coach and I think this is going to be like a. I think we're going to see growth in him and I'm excited to see it. But how important was that hire of Dabel, knowing that, you know, you've got a young quarterback who's in this like, really critical stage. Right. We all know how talented Cam is, but this critical stage and on the shorthand of all the offensive minds in the NFL, I think Brian is right there. He's like the short list of guys who can develop quarterbacks. So it was a home run hire. But how important was that, knowing that Brian may wind up taking a head coaching job and might not get, you know, so how, how critical was that whole process and the timeline for you?

[D]

Yeah, it was critical. And, you know, he interviewed for a couple of jobs yesterday. We were kind of holding our breath and, you know, I think Brian, it's important because, you know, I think Brian has a. Had had a relationship with Cam the year before.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, the Giants did a lot of work on him. So there was a. There was a previous relationship with him,

[A]

and they may have offered a lot to go up and get him. They did.

[D]

But someone told me, once you find the franchise quarterback, you think that's going to be the franchise quarterback. You take them.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[D]

And so that was our thinking at the time. But with Brian, you know, he had a vision for him last year. And what's unique about Brian, too, is you spend that year at Alabama in 2018 with, with. With Tua and Jalen and then taking some of those concepts with Che turn. He was there, too, at Alabama, who's now the quarterback coach here. He took him to Buffalo at the time, you know, worked with Josh when he was there with Josh Allen, and then, of course, he was with Jackson this year. So it was critical.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

To get Brian here.

[B]

I love a mock draft as much as the next guy, but I think it's funny especially. And it's a good exercise. Exercise. But we're. We haven't even hit free agency, and everyone's telling me what Tennessee needs on their roster. But what really kind of stood out to me is you have a young team and no one knows your team better than you. And we always see this guys take big leaps. Year two, year three, and you know, better than anyone where guys are in the process and how are they developing and how do you. How do you balance that of, you know, this player, we think he's going to be able to play this role. Role with. We need to fill this slot.

[A]

Like, how.

[B]

How do you balance that when you're evaluating the draft?

[D]

Yeah. You want to stay disciplined to the board. You. I mean, you always say you want to take the best player available at the time, but there is a, A marriage of.

[B]

Of.

[D]

Of need and, and value on the board.

[B]

Right. Need can drive up value a little bit.

[D]

Right. But you need to stay disciplined in terms of, you know, you. You don't want to just force a pick because you have a need there. You know, we're a young team. We want to draft and develop these guys. So. And we have. We have. Obviously, we have some needs, so at this point, we're taking, you know, the best player available for us at the time.

[A]

I want to go back to Cam for a little bit because your situation was different. As we just chronicled. Right. When. When you were dropped into the role that you're in. We talked to some other general managers and they take us back to four years or, you know, high school or. I went to this practice and we talked to Elliot Wolf Yesterday, and he said, I went to this practice at North Carolina a couple years earlier. You're. I mean, you're in Kansas City, you've got Mahomes. You get dropped into this situation and it's obviously a blessing, and it's what you've worked your ass off your entire career to get here. But now you've got a. It's not you're playing catch up because you're evaluating everyone, but you've got to make the most important decision of your career in the first few months of having this job.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

What was that information gathering process? Like, who did you lean on? I think the audience would love to know a little bit more. Like behind the curtain of when did you know, who did you lean on? What were the things that happened to get you to a point where you're like, yeah, he's our guy. Yeah.

[D]

Right. I mean, in Kansas City, obviously we had Patrick, and you're not, you know, evaluating the quarterback, but for us, you know, you're always evaluating the quarterback position.

[B]

Right.

[D]

You know, so anytime there's a young guy, you can hear about it from two years. And actually, I'll tell you, Brett Veach, it was funny.

[A]

He's great.

[D]

He's got a million different text chains, probably, but he had one of us, you know, we had a text chain. And sometimes you'd get up in the morning and you'd have like 45 text messages. I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? You have to read through what's important here. But I remember it was a few years ago, he did shoot a text. He goes, you see this Washington State quarterback? He was slinging it out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Last night. And so. And so, you know, you're always watching these quarterbacks. So we started, you know, I started to watch them, you know, probably a couple years ago. And then through the season last year, just. Just in case, you know, you have to be prepared to get a job, and that's obviously the most important position. So for me, you know, I did a lot of tape work on him. Never had seen him live in person. And when I first got hired, like I told you, I went down to the east west game, and I'm trying to connect the dots of, you know, former coaches he had and everything. And Eric Morris was at North Texas. We actually had our practices there last year. So I made a beeline to try to find Eric, you know, just to ask him about him, because Eric was the OC at Texas Tech with Pat, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And, you know, he Was pretty short with me. When I asked him, I said, you know, what do you think of Cam? He goes, he's everything you want. Take him. I go, really? I said, did you mind your pat at all? So the first time I actually met Cam was at. Was at the combine here last year, where we did our formal interview with him. And I was. You hear all the stories. I talked to Coach Cristobal at Senior bowl about him. He said he was the best leader he's ever been around. And I'm like, whoa, okay. So, you know, get to the combine with him, have the meeting, and just his retention, you know, as we were watching the film. And his knowledge at the time was impressive for a young kid, but he's played a lot of football.

[A]

Yeah, he is.

[D]

And obviously, the physical quality stand out on tape. You see the different arm angles, the different launch points, his ability to create. And then he has this, you know, I think it's a gift that some guys have. It's a spatial awareness. You can see Guy. And how did he see that guy come open, you know, when he's throwing the football? So those are some of the things that you see on tape. But then, you know, there was probably three other touch points we had with him at the pro day than his. Than his private workout in a 30. And everywhere along the way, he kind of checked every box for us.

[A]

Yeah. So I've got five questions I want to get to, but there's one that's been bugging me.

[B]

All right.

[A]

And we don't. We'll get to these five, and we'll just kind of rattle through them and we'll get you out of here. But I think I overcomplicate things a lot. Right. And so, yeah, I went back and did all this because I'm so fascinated with. We can all pinpoint, like, talent at the quarterback position. And then it's about drilling down, like you just mentioned with Cam. But then it's about. And I think this is the part that we see some organizations fail over and over again and others excel in. It's about supporting. And I look back at Kansas City after Mahomes, and I look back at several other organizations over time, the Chiefs, the Packers, and there seemed to be a trend. And I don't think. I truly don't believe that it was like, completely, like an analytical, driven thing or anything where you said, well, this is what we're going to do. But I do remember even talking to Bill Polian when he left the Colts and came to ESPN about, like, this guy's an eraser. He can fix the quarterback, can fix, you know, 10 other guys on the field, unlike any player on the defensive side. So there's got to be a shift to upgrading the personnel on that side of the ball because he can help with certain things on that side of the ball. And I looked at the Church Chiefs the year after Mahomes, I think it was six draft picks on the defensive side. Is that right?

[D]

That would have been the year that was. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I think it was the year after. Right.

[D]

Yep, it was. Yeah, you're right.

[A]

Is there a thought process to any of that, or am I completely out of my mind?

[D]

Listen, you. You always want to support the quarterback, so, you know, I never thought of it that way. Yeah. I think when we had Patrick, that was like the perfect storm, though. I mean, we were a playoff team. He sat for a year. We had Kelsey in his prime, Tyreek in his prime, and we had a defense that was aging at the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So we actually. We flipped the defense a couple times during that.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

When Pat first started. But the offense, I think, was. The supporting cast was pretty good at the time. So, you know, for me, when you get the young quarterback, the first thing you have to do is. Is protecting.

[A]

Protection.

[D]

Yeah, the protection is number one.

[A]

Play callers protection, playmakers.

[B]

Right.

[D]

That's right. Yeah, exactly. Right. So for me, I never really thought of it that way. I know I've heard some stuff about how Bill Polian had built the team there with more speed on the other side in Indy, but I never really thought of it that way. But my first thing is protect the quarterback and give him away.

[A]

Happens. Yep. Yeah. All right, let's run through these. We've asked. We've had the Howie on And Nick Casario, and we had Elliot yesterday and a few other guys, and we've kind of asked all the. And the answer to this one has been really different. It's kind of interesting. We've got, I think, like, 75 or 80 was the lowest, and over, like, 200, the highest. How big is your final board? In a perfect world, when you're. When you're ready for the draft weekend. That's.

[D]

That's a good question, because we've cut it down over the years. I think at one point, we're like 230. We're in Kansas City. Last year, we got to a point where we were about close to 200. We're about 195. And then once you get through the combine character medical, it was probably down to about 185 at that point. So that's where we were at, and that's where we felt comfortable. Yeah, there's always, you know, we always. For me, it's more clutter. You know, say, oh, that's window dressing. He's gonna get. Well, get it out of there. I don't want to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think the comfort point for. For us, for me now is probably around 200, you know, under 200. Yeah.

[A]

I'd be scared to death to go into a draft weekend with, like, 90.

[D]

I heard, like, stories with Coach Parcells with. Had 75.

[A]

75. Yeah.

[D]

On the board one time I said, wow, that's.

[B]

Yeah. We interviewed Mickey Loomis, and he talked about how their number was much smaller.

[A]

And I. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And he said, there's been a couple

[A]

times where they're like. They got sweating it, like, waiting around.

[D]

Well, you always have the back, but you don't want to be taken off the back.

[A]

Right, right. So you haven't had this job all that long, comparatively to the other 31 GMs in the NFL. But what has been your favorite part of the job?

[D]

You know, the favorite part is probably connecting more with just the people in the community. I think. For me, I think I was, you know, behind the scenes a lot in Kansas City and being out here and just in Nashville now and just being able to feel the fan base now, you can really feel it. And that's been a neat part, you know, and then, you know, bringing the type of people you want in here, that's. That's the biggest part. You all. Everybody has their philosophy, type of people they want in here, and coaches, scouts, players. But for me, that. That's kind of the neat part. We, you know, we're trying to build a culture here with the right type of people.

[A]

I think everyone I've talked to who's been successful in that role, one of the first things they say is, like, the people.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And it doesn't have to be what everyone else is seeking or who's, like, the highest ranked on some service, but it's. It's just the right people. I don't want to say least favorite, but what has been kind of, you know, this is the first time in this role, and there's so many. You're getting tugged in all these different places, and you have to come sit down. You don't have to, but you chose to come and sit down with us, and you get all these. And you're the discipline Aspect. But what has been the most challenging part of the part, maybe you didn't realize, was going to eat up as much time as it eats up time

[D]

is the key thing, is budgeting your time. The knocks at your door throughout the day.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You know when you say, all right, I need to get these things done here today, and all of a sudden you look at the. You're watching it. It's five o'. Clock.

[A]

Give us an example. Like a knock on the door. You don't have to specifically rat someone out, but it could be anything.

[D]

It could be the player, it could be a scout. You're dealing with a coach.

[B]

We hear about some agency.

[D]

It almost. It almost becomes like a. You're sitting down. It's almost like a therapy session with everybody. But that's been the biggest, I would say challenge, but, you know, just managing the amount of people that you have to deal with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell me about something. And it may not even be in this role, but any point in your career that you failed at something and what you learned from it.

[D]

That's a great question.

[B]

Yeah. He likes to hit you with the big ones at the end.

[D]

Well, I feel that. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of failures along the way. And if you're talking about just this profession, I think the biggest thing is we can always. We're so intoxicated by talent. Right. But the other component of that, and it's a huge component, is the character piece, the makeup piece, and sometimes you can give in on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And. And then when you do it, you said, God, I knew. I knew it wasn't going to work out. Why did I do that?

[A]

Yeah, it's hard.

[D]

So. So those. So are some of the lessons you learn along the way, but just stay disciplined with that.

[A]

All right. You're from Massachusetts. I'm. I'm. I'm confident in this question. We've asked everyone this, and I've. I've said it before, like, some GMs have been underwhelming.

[B]

We're building some momentum.

[A]

We've got some great momentum. Mickey Loomis had a great answer in New Orleans. Elliot Wolf in New England. Now, I think they've helped him culturally with food. And how important is the draft spread? What's. What goes into it? Do you care? I hope you say yes. If not, then we'll have a conversation. The draft spread.

[B]

I'm hoping you're getting some barbecue.

[A]

What do you got?

[D]

I've had a bunch of different ones over the years, but you're in Charge. You talk about, like, the dream setup for me. Yeah. If I had a. Yeah,

[A]

we should be getting it.

[D]

See, I'm not a big guy that goes down the cafeteria and sits down because I can't stand still, like, during the draft. So I'm like, I'm a grab and go. So give me good pizza, you know, Give me a pizzeria. Gina, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Give me some Kowloon. Some saugus wings.

[B]

Kowloon.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love it.

[D]

Bianco sausages. Yeah. For me. I'm not a. Like, I don't eat a ton during

[A]

the draft, but what about after we talked about this yesterday. Yesterday with Ellie. I can't eat during the draft. I can pick a little bit, but, like, I want my Diet Pepsi's, my lemon Perfects. I want a couple snacks. But then when the draft's over, I want to know that, like, I want to be royalty. I want to, like, sit down and, you know, I mean, can you pick

[B]

a little on Saturday? I get Thursday and Friday, but maybe a little bit on Saturday afternoon.

[D]

I mean, it has to be an Italian meal for me.

[A]

Yeah, you're an every guy.

[D]

Some pasta, you know? Yeah, that's what you need.

[A]

Yeah. So can we. Do you want. You want to, like. I'll do it for free if you want to come down and cook, but I'll do a consulting gig if you want me to roll in and maybe get some stuff up from Massachusetts brought down.

[D]

Well, maybe we'll do that. I mean, Scott used to do that. I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Bianco sausages out there.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I know it's been a whirlwind. You got the job just, like, a little over a year ago, and so. But we need to start focusing on the important things now.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. That answer, huh?

[A]

No, but it's good.

[D]

Maybe.

[A]

But I do feel like maybe we.

[B]

He's gonna push.

[D]

I gotta get the spread. I gotta get better.

[A]

All right, so that's next up. I appreciate it, man. Really good catching up.

[D]

I appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. Good luck with everything.

[D]

Thanks a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[B]

Monster Energy Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra, that's kicked off this whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava, and they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.