Defensive Line NFL Draft Tiers: Ranking Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, the Georgia Pass Rushers, and More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show - "Defensive Line NFL Draft Tiers: Ranking Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, the Georgia Pass Rushers, and More"

Release Date: February 18, 2025
Host: Todd McShay, The Ringer

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1. Introduction and Context

In this episode, long-time NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay delves deep into one of the most robust defensive line classes in recent memory. With the NFL Draft just 65 days away, McShay emphasizes the unparalleled depth and talent available at the defensive line position, challenging the often-dismissed notion that this year's draft class isn't up to par.

Todd McShay [01:24]: "This year’s defensive line group match is as good as I can remember. The depth of this group is what stands out the most."

2. Overview of the Defensive Line Draft Class

McShay highlights that the current defensive line draft class is exceptionally deep, with 36 players graded as draftable across the first seven rounds. This marks a significant increase from the 24 players drafted on average over the past three years, showcasing a surge in available talent.

Todd McShay [05:00]: "There are 35 edge defenders invited to the combine, and about 80% of them get drafted. This year, with 36 guys graded as draftable, it underscores the depth of this class."

3. Interior Defensive Linemen Breakdown

McShay categorizes interior defensive linemen into tiers based on their potential impact and draftability:

• Tier 1:

  • Mason Graham (Michigan): McShay praises Graham as a dominant player whose tape speaks for itself, comparing him to top-tier prospects like Joe Altz from Notre Dame.

    Todd McShay [18:00]: "His tape was really good this year... He is unblockable at times."

• Tier 2:

  • Walter Nolan (Ole Miss) & Kenneth Grant (Michigan): Both are seen as late first-round prospects with high ceilings but may lack some consistency. McShay notes Grant's potential flashes of greatness paired with his teammate Nolan’s strong run defense.

    Todd McShay [18:18]: "Consistency, especially at getting off blocks, is where Grant falls short compared to Graham."

• Tier 3:

  • T.J. Sanders (South Carolina) & Tylee Williams (Ohio State): Sanders is lauded for his versatility and instinctual play-making, while Williams rounds out the top five with his ability to contribute significantly from day one.

    Todd McShay [11:11]: "T.J. Sanders is a no-brainer first-rounder to me."

4. Edge Defensive Linemen Breakdown

The edge defensive line class is equally impressive, with McShay identifying Abdul Carter as the standout Tier 1 edge rusher. Carter is positioned alongside Mason Graham and Travis Hunter as the elite prospects in this class.

Todd McShay [38:23]: "Abdul Carter is Tier 1 in the Edge class. He’s explosive and dynamic, making him comparable to Micah Parsons."

Tier 2 includes a mix of players like Mikel Williams, Jalen Walker, and James Pierce Jr., who show significant potential but require further development to reach elite status.

5. Notable Player Analysis

McShay provides in-depth evaluations of several key players:

• Abdul Carter (Edge):
  The epitome of Tier 1 edge rushers with explosive speed and dynamic pass-rushing abilities.

  Todd McShay [18:00]: "Mason Graham is almost the prospect that Joe Alt was last year. And Matt is just so safe and clean."

• Mason Graham (Interior DL):
  Praised for his dominance and hands skills, Graham is seen as a cornerstone for any team's defensive front.

  Todd McShay [18:00]: "He can win with his hands, get off blocks, and is absolutely dominant on the inside."

• Omar Norman Lott (Edge):
  Highlighted for his stout build and effective pass rush win rate, though concerns about his snap count and potential development remain.

  Todd McShay [29:59]: "He can explode off the ball. Good luck trying to get underneath Norman Lott as an offensive lineman."

• Jalen Walker (Edge):
  Described as a hybrid player with versatility in multiple defensive schemes, Walker offers unique value with his ability to rush from various gaps.

  Todd McShay [51:08]: "He makes quarterbacks think about him constantly, taking a toll over the course of a game."

6. Strategic Implications for NFL Teams

McShay urges NFL teams, especially those aiming for sustained success like the Eagles, Bills, and Ravens, to capitalize on this deep defensive line class. He recommends prioritizing defensive line selections in the early rounds to build a formidable front that can anchor their defenses.

Todd McShay [36:04]: "Defensive linemen, this year is a gold mine for this defensive line class. Use your early picks wisely."

7. Conclusions and Upcoming Content

Wrapping up, McShay reiterates the exceptional talent pool available and encourages teams to leverage this abundance. He also teases upcoming content, including mock drafts and combine previews, promising more insights as the draft approaches.

Todd McShay [36:31]: "We’re in a good place. Defensive line this year is unmatched, and we’re excited to bring you the best content in the coming weeks."

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• [01:24]: "The depth of this group is what stands out the most."
• [18:00]: "He is unblockable at times."
• [38:23]: "Abdul Carter is Tier 1 in the Edge class."
• [51:08]: "He makes quarterbacks think about him constantly."
• [36:04]: "This year is a gold mine for this defensive line class."
• [36:31]: "We’re in a good place. Defensive line this year is unmatched."

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Conclusion

Todd McShay's comprehensive analysis underscores the extraordinary depth and quality of this year's defensive line NFL draft class. By meticulously breaking down individual prospects and their tiers, McShay provides invaluable insights for both fans and NFL teams aiming to navigate the upcoming draft successfully. With the draft rapidly approaching, his expert evaluations offer a roadmap to building a resilient and formidable defensive front.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places between payroll, your tax consultant and the IRS. If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

[B]

30 defensive linemen, Interior and edge, with grades equivalent to the first three rounds.

[A]

That's it. That's a big number.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, today we're going to take a deep dive into one of the deepest D line classes that we've ever seen. Just 65 days until the NFL draft. Men, you good?

[A]

I'm good, man.

[B]

So glad to hear that. Now wake me up, dj. One of the things that I, I take a lot of pride in. I know you do as well, Mitch, is providing perspective, right? Like most people kind of get involved in the draft. The super bowl is over. The college football and NFL seasons are done. They dive into the draft. People want to know, okay, like when you say, oh, this is a deep running back class. It's loaded this year. It's a great defensive line class. There's so much talent to be had. Well, give me a little perspective, right? And so I did a little bit of digging just to provide the audience. And thank you everyone who's tuned in. Like, the continued support has been amazing. The numbers keep growing. We appreciate you more than you'll ever know, truly. And please take a minute. If you haven't already, click the subscribe button. Give us some likes, all the different things you need to do. I hate begging, but we got to ask. It's just how this thing works, right? But perspective, right? When we talk about this being a loaded D line class, and I kind of laugh. Men, right? Everyone's like this, this class isn't very Good, Everyone's. Because you got to remember, like all the NFL reporters and NFL analysts and like people I'm talking to now, kind of, you know, sending texts and giving calls and people are kind of getting really interested in this draft class and to a T, everyone who's coming in fresh from the league. It's kind of like when you're a scout and now you're starting to talk to the coaches in the staff who have been coaching all season long, everyone's like, you know, I hear this class isn't very good. And I'm like, yeah, for tv, it's not a great draft.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Quarterbacks, you know, the quarterbacks this year, the, the talking point probably starts at 4 or 5 from last year's quarterback class. Yeah, the wide receivers aren't as great as they have been, but as we've talked about a lot recently, and we will continue to talk about, like, look at the organizations that continue to win year after year, are in the playoffs, successful organizations. They are the ones that take advantage of defensive linemen and defensive standouts in the NFL draft. And this year's defensive line group match is as good as I can remember. I'm not going to go back and say, whoa, it's as good as this classic. We did that with running backs. To me, it's like the depth of this group is what stands out the most. Where you can get guys in the third, fourth and fifth round that belong in the second, third and fourth round. Guys that more forget the rounds. Guys that are actually going to contribute in different ways, shapes and forms.

[A]

Okay, Right.

[B]

So we always do the three year tally. I talked about it last time, Bill Belichick, you know, one of the things he taught, taught me early in my career was you can kind of rely. Because some years it's, there's a big spike, some years there's, there's a big drop. And it has, and it reflects kind of what's going on with, you know, with the talent coming out. But if you want to get a feel, don't do five years, don't do seven years because the game changes. But three years, if you kind of average those and combine them. So edge class, we'll start there last three years, in the first three rounds, there's been an average of 13 guys drafted edge defenders. This year we have grades. I have grades. And we'll get to your grades and how you, you know, how your evaluations differentiate from mine. But this year I've got 20 edge, edge defenders. Right, 20 with grades in the first three rounds. That's seven more. That's significant. Overall, the class 24 edge defenders on average 18 last year, but 24 on average the last three years have been drafted overall. Seven round process. I've got 36 guys this year with draftable grades and the combine. There are 35 edge defenders invited now about 80% of the combine players wind up getting drafted. There's like 333. I don't know this year but on average like just over 330. Only 256 players get drafted so obviously there's going to be a percentage that don't and a handful of guys get drafted. I think it's about 10% of players that get drafted were not invited to the combine on average. My point being it's still a good indicator of what the class looks like when you have 35 edge defenders invited. The combine we I have 36 guys edge defenders graded in the first seven rounds compared to 24 over the last three years. Now let's get to inside defensive lineman. The idls 10 in the last three years on average. Right? The last three year average. 10 interior defensive linemen have been drafted in the first three rounds. I've got 17 with grades in the first three rounds. Again, seven point player difference for both edge and interior defensive lineman in the first three rounds. Those are guys you expect to play significant roles whether it's day one starter in a rotation. Develop them as a starter. When you draft a player in the first three rounds you expect in that first three years they become an impact player and become a starter. 17.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Very similar.

[B]

Overall 23 have been drafted. Interior defensive lineman last three years. 23 idls drafted the last three years. I've got 36 match with draftable grades. 39 invited to the combine. That's ridiculous. So that's the jumping off point today. There's a lot of buzz I'm hearing. I I've had conversations with with interesting people including even Albert Breer. Yesterday we were on the phone for an hour. A lot of information started to come out. We're talking about dropping the mock draft very soon. Stay tuned. Check it out on on on X we got at McShay 13 you got Menches. You good mensch. Y O u good M U E N C H He's got his new Twitter handle. Thank you for the audience sending in suggestions. We went with one of them, thank God. Yes. So we'll keep you posted but we're very soon here maybe this week. Dropping my first mock draft in the in Two years. Right. So exciting week. And then next. Next week, we've got the combine talking about maybe not doing a show on Monday or Tuesday because we're flying in on Wednesday. We're going to have a preview show from the combine with measurables, get everyone ready for it on Wednesday. Then on Thursday, we're going to have the first day of workouts. Friday, second day of workouts. Saturday, third day of workouts, which is the big one. Quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers. Right. It's a huge day. Saturday, we'll post a rare weekend draft show, and then Sunday, we fly home. Monday, we do a review show. So we're going to be loaded here for the next, like, 10, 12 days. Stick with us. From mock drafts to combine previews to the combine to the combine review, we're going to cover it all. And I. And I'm telling you, I'm getting information that's pretty freaking wild, man. Things are starting to shape up, like. And you start saying, well, what do people know now? The draft. Yeah, the draft boards haven't been set. I get it. Meetings are happening. But you go back and talk to some general managers who have drafted quarterbacks, and sometimes they say, yeah, we knew at this point in the process. Yeah, we knew we were going with this guy. We started. We started making phone calls about trades in February. Okay. So things are starting to happen, and I'm getting inside information that I'm excited to share. Not quite there yet. Hopefully with the mock draft coming out, we'll be able to explain it all. But let's start with you, Mensch, because I always get yelled at. Even my daughter, my sweet Allaire, watched a show the other day, just a few minutes, but she said, why doesn't. Why don't you let the other guy talk?

[A]

And everyone.

[B]

And we're here we are 10 minutes and 46 seconds in, and it's probably been like 20 words from Mitch and 3,000 from me. So, interior defensive lineman, why don't you start there? Because we both took this project on. We're stuck. We're just ripping through tape.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Player after player, we got the PFF ultimate, which is helping us with the. You know, you can. You can sort it out by pass rush, win rate, positive plays, rundowns, negative plays versus the run. Like, oh, you. Any way you can possibly think of breaking it up, it goes. Immediately you press the button, it goes to the video. So anyone who's out there who's a junkie and really wants to get the tape, I'm Telling you, pff. Ultimate is an unbelievable source. And it's. And it's that or the version similar. Whether it's their own database like the Baltimore Ravens have, and their own. Know their own situation. That's what NFL teams are doing. They're breaking up the cutups. So, interior defensive lineman, Let me start with this, okay? I. This interior defensive line group is loaded, obviously. Actually, you start it. I'm gonna. I'll give you a nugget later. Go ahead, Go ahead.

[A]

I got something for you right out of the gate last show. I. I say I'm gna. Tell everyone right now. Oregon defensive tackle Derek Harmon is in a top five defensive tackle in this class. And I usually feel really good about what I say in the show. And then, and then, you know, we all wrap it up. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next show. Great show.

[B]

All that.

[A]

I was like, wait a minute, am I serious? Did I just put my foot in my mouth? Is Derek Harmon really not a top five defensive tackle in this class? And you know what? He's not. He's not a top five defensive tackle in this class. And it's how good this group is. No, he's just not. I'm sorry. Mason Graham is on his own level. Mason Graham is his own dude.

[B]

Okay, Michigan, he's your tier one guy.

[A]

Tier one McShay guy. Then you have, I think, Walter Nolan, and I was, I, you know, I was kind of downplaying Kenneth Grant a little bit. I was out of my mind on that one. Kenneth Grant and Walter Nolan are in a race for DT2, in my opinion. Then you get into my guy, who I have absolutely fallen in love after digging in and watching tape, and that's South Carolina's T.J. sanders. He is really awesome. I love his tape. I love the way he plays the run. He can one gap, he can two gap. He has instincts like a linebacker when he's playing the run. The way he tracks and locates the ball, slips, slips, blocks, sifts through traffic. I loved his tape. He is a no brainer first rounder to me. And then I got Ohio State's Tylee Williams to round up my top five, which puts Harmon in. Really. And I'll tell you this, this is not so much of a knock on Derek Harmon, who had a great year, but when you watch T. So we're watching those clips and those cutups, watch TJ Sanders rush pass rush clips, and then to watch Derek Harmon's clips, and it's a different thing. Derek Harmon's getting Home because of stunts. Guys are kind of rolling into him. TJ Sanders is winning with his hands. He's, he's got moves. Derek Harmon's a little bit raw, more raw in that situation. So now TJ Sanders is undersized. I get that. I'm not really worried about after watching his tape. He's strong. He can slip blocks. TJ Sanders is going to be fine. So then I think you, you got Derek Harmon in that next bucket or tier, whatever way you want to say it. I'm really high on shamar, so let's, let's.

[B]

All right. I love your, I love your passion, your energy. I love how much caffeine you've, you've had this morning. We'll get back and I, I do want to pick your brain and share some thoughts on, on each, each of these guys and their traits. But you're saying for you, if we're going off of tears, which is the phraseology I've always used, the Ravens like to use buckets. Clusters is another phrase that we hear often. Right. When you talk to people inside the NFL, whatever the phrasing is, for us, tier one is Mason Graham, and I don't disagree. But you're saying for you, tier 2, and correct me if I'm wrong, is Walter Nolan, defensive inside interior defensive lineman from Ole Miss. 63293 pounds, 33 inch arms. And Kenneth Grant, the Michigan interior defensive lineman, teammate, obviously of Mason Graham, who's bigger cat. We don't have his. Let's not even throw measurables at this point. We only have Walter Nolan's because he was at the Senior Bowl. Kenneth Grant was not. I don't. Yeah, it was not. And, and so we'll wait for the combine to throw out the measurables, but he's, he's a bigger cat.

[A]

And he's widely expected to have an outrageous workout whenever he works out. It's supposed, he's supposed to put on a show.

[B]

Correct. But you're saying also, maybe I misheard also in that tier, that tier two.

[A]

No, that's my tier two.

[B]

That's your tier two. So tier three then starts. In your opinion, are my tears too small?

[A]

I feel like maybe.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I, I, I'm a small, I'm a small tier guy. I.

[A]

Okay, good, good.

[B]

Let's, let's get. And then let's stack him within. So then tier three starts for you with TJ Sanders, the three technique from, from South Carolina who, who checked in at the, at the Senior bowl at 6036. That means six, three and three quarters, Inc. 284 pounds. He's a classic three technique. Undersized, tall, taller, good length, big, big hands. Right. If I remember. Yeah, ten and a quarter inch hands. Excuse me, 33 and five, eight. Eight inch arms. So those are long arms for defensive tackle, which is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that starts your Tier 3 and.

[A]

Then TY League Williams is in the net tier. And then I think there's a much. When you get to tier 4, it's a much bigger tier. I mean, you're starting. So.

[B]

So Harmon isn't even in your first three tiers.

[A]

No, he's not in the top five. He's not in the first three tiers.

[B]

What about. Okay, what about Alfred Collins from Texas and Josh from Florida State?

[A]

All the next group with Harmon. And I'm also higher, I believe, than you on Texas A and M. Shamar Turner, who played Hurt this year. But if you look at the production in the tape for. If you look at the production from two years ago and you still look at the tape from this year, I mean, the kid's playing on a stress fracture that they had to. He went to the Senior bowl and they're like, bro, you have a stress fracture that hasn't healed. You got to go heal up. And it's. And when you think about how he was playing on that injury, man, he's. He's a dude too. I mean there's that bucket there. And then you could also throw into that, that group right there. Darius Alexander from Toledo had an outrageous Senior Bowl.

[B]

I'm high on Darius Alexander.

[A]

Me too. So what I'm saying, and to keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that Derek Harmon's not going to be a starter in the NFL because I do believe that he will be. It's just this, this when you start reading those numbers at the beginning of the show and you give that perspective, this class is loaded and it's deep, but it's also talented. Maybe not, you know, maybe not elite at the top, but that set, you know, when you get into that, that day two range, there's going to be a bunch of guys that are drafted in day two from the defensive tackle group, that interior def. Defensive line group, they're going to turn into players in the NFL.

[B]

Give me, I'm going to put you on the spot here.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Whether it's 20, 30 seconds, give me your elevator pitch and I'm going to go down the. Down to the list. Just on the. I'm not going to go through 10 guys. I'm going to go through just a handful of guys. Give me your elevator pitch on Mason Graham, defensive tackle, Michigan, who's Your only Tier 1 player?

[A]

First of all, the tape speaks for itself. I'll say that right away. Do you want. I mean, we can do traits, but I. I just have to mention this. His tape was really good this year. If you go back and you look at the players that he played and the players that were either got drafted or going to get drafted the year before when they won the national championship and how he played against those players, he was the. He was the alpha. He was the dominant player in all of those tapes. He can win. I mean, it starts for me with feet and hands. When you're talking about defensive tackles, you know, can they change directions a little bit? Do they have a little bit of agility? You know, they don't have to move like a defensive end, but can they move a little bit? And then more importantly, really, is the hands. Can they win with their hands? Can they get off blocks? Mason Graham passes, passes those tests with flying colors. And he's a guy that could play on the outside, too, if you really need him to. I don't think that's something I would do that much because it's not his strength and he's just absolutely dominant on the inside. But he, at that size, is athletic and quick and agile enough to, if you wanted, you'd like the matchup against, maybe a guy doesn't have much sand in the pants at offensive tackle, he'd go out there and play there, too, if you wanted him to. He is just the tape. It speaks for itself. He's unblockable at times.

[B]

When you're watching Michigan defensive line tape for you personally, and you're watching Mason Graham and he's obviously in a tier of his own, but Kenneth Grant not far behind in terms of tears in that second tier. What. What's the biggest difference you see between Graham and Kenneth Grant?

[A]

Consistency, especially at getting off blocks. I think that Grant's not as good at. At getting off locks. He's just not as consistent. The, the flip side with Grant is, and I kind of hinted at it, is the. The ceiling is outrageous. I mean, the ceiling is outrageous. You see him when he gets a chance. You don't see a lot with defensive tackles, but when he gets a chance to chase. This is a guy that moves differently than most human beings with that kind of size. So to me, you're talking about Graham consistently great Grant, flashes of greatness. Good player.

[B]

Walter Nolan. What stands out to you?

[A]

You better, you better block him with two. And if you can't, and even sometimes when you block him with two, he's still going to beat you. I think he's quick enough to split double teams. Another guy that if you really wanted to kick him outside in certain matchups, you could do it. But he's quick. I mean he can win with his hands, he can win with his quickness. These are, there's going to be some similar traits here because again when I'm looking for in an elite defensive tackle, these guys are going to share some of those tools. But the one thing that jumped out to me with him with no. 1 when I watched his tape was you get, you better, you better block him with two. And even when you do, he can win.

[B]

Yeah, I thought I see flashes as a pass rusher. I really do. I think he's really, really strong versus the run.

[A]

You're worried about the pass rush?

[B]

I see flashes, I see flashes. But I look at like I look at some of his, his best games as a pass rusher like Middle Tennessee, you know, Wake Forest, Georgia Southern, thought.

[A]

He was really good at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was really good.

[B]

I like it. I don't, I, I'm just saying when I watched him on tape, when I see Walter Nolan on tape, I see a guy who's great versus the run because he's, he's stuff, he's stout, he can stuff the run, he gets off of blocks, he's disruptive, he's just like power strength, like built thick but also has some quickness and is active and disrupts As a pass rusher I see a guy who has those traits but he's going to need developing in order to against like top tier offensive linemen, figure out how to, you know, counter, how to get home, how to be more consistent as a pass rusher. That's.

[A]

I'm not a concern, but I guess.

[B]

Yeah, I'm, it's not a massive concern. I'm saying like as I'm trying to like within, within the tiers, I'm just, that's. If there's a concern for me, why isn't he in that tier one? Because he's, because he's a big, good looking dude, carries his weight, has all the athletic traits. Again, comparatively speaking. If we're talking about top, top tier, top 10 type picks, I think, excuse me, his consistency as a pass rusher and, and his like refinement ability to, to Come up with counters against good offensive linemen that know what they're doing. They come in with balance and with a plan. That's where he's going to have to be a master class. And he asked the skills to do it.

[A]

How do you. How do you approach when a player. And this is. He's a great example. Ole Miss's defensive line is loaded. Right. So how do you approach it? And I know you're talking about Ivy. Yep. So when you have an offensive line like that or Texas A and M offensive line where maybe you don't get home because there's three other dudes you play with who can get home, does that impact how you're looking at. I mean, you could look at Middletown State and be like, you know, he had most of this pressure. You know what I mean? But, like, there's other games where they're playing in, where maybe he would like on. In a different situation. He's going to get home. But there goes you, man. Meowing off the. Flying off the edge or Ivy's winning with power.

[B]

I'm not worried about, like, I'm not worried about the sacks, and I'm worried. I'm. I'm studying the tape, like, right. Like there. There are times when Jalen Walker steals a sack from Mikel Williams or vice versa, or Chase.

[A]

Yeah. Chases them into them.

[B]

Yeah, I got you all that stuff. It's. It's basically, that's why I put more focus on, like, the pass rush win rate, if we're going to put any focus on any numbers than I do on the sacks, you know, and when I'm watching tape, it's more about, like, are you. Are you winning that one on one? I can't. I can't concern myself with what the other 10 are doing in that situation, but I got to keep perspective on what's happening on the tape.

[A]

Right. So is Nolan a tear? Is he a tier below for you, or is he.

[B]

No, no, he's not. I'm just. I'm just countering to you and saying, why isn't he in tier one? I think that. That if you. If you polled a lot of different scouts who have. Who have been, you know, evaluating him for two years now, if you pulled them all, like, why isn't he going to be a top 10 pick? Pretty confident that that would be the answer.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's fair.

[B]

Yeah. Because there's. There's a reason he's not a top 10 pick, but there's also a lot of reasons why he's he's going to be a first round pick. Right?

[A]

Right. Yeah. Keep it in perspective. Mason Graham, by the way, can I just make this comparison real quick? Is almost the prospect that Joe Alt was last year. And then it's just so safe and clean and when you watch his tape, it's play after play after play after play of him doing the right thing, him making plays, him dominating his opponent. Like I remember Joe Altz evaluation. The offensive tackle from Notre Dame by the way, came out last year. I gotta be better about this. The offensive tackle out of Notre Dame that, that the Chargers drafted last year. His eval evaluation was so easy because his tape was so clean. And I feel the same way about Mason Graham. There's not a. You're gonna have a tough time coming up with a low light package for Mason Graham.

[B]

Yeah. Alt was what the second position player drafted in the class with three quarterbacks and, and you know, one of one of two like unbelievably elite wide receivers. And Marvin Harrison Jr. Went four, I believe to Arizona and then he was five, five to the Chargers. If.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Memory serves me all right. A couple more things. We talked about pass rush win rate. Right. I just, I looked this up just to kind of get some perspective and this will lead me to, to a couple things. Three defensive linemen, interestingly enough were kind of heading like, I don't know, like heads or shoulders. Head and shoulders above the rest. Is that what, is that what they.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Catchphrase. Omar Norman lot from Tennessee 19.4. He was kind of up there with some of the top edge guys. Okay. In the top 30 edge guys. Which is, which obviously speaks to. To what he. I. I'll get into Norman Lott in a minute. Anais people. Peebles, sorry. From Virginia Tech. Number two. Not surprising. I think he's underrated in this class. Three technique, active, disruptive. Get him in that like you know, inside shoulder of the tackle. Let him, let him hit that three, that three gap or the. There's a three technique and the B gap and, and let him get up field and see what he can do when he gets there. And then your boy Derek Harmon from Oregon, number three. And then there's a big drop off. It was 19.4 for Norman Lott, 18.6 for Peebles and 17.9 for Harmon. And then you get down just by comparison purpose, for comparison purposes when you get down to like the, the Mason Grahams and the Walter Nolan, they were like in that 11, 10% which is still like I'm not, I'M not complaining about those numbers. It's a pretty good pass rush win rate for an interior defensive lineman, but it speaks to, like, how successful those guys were as pass rushers. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Norman lot, Tennessee, Peebles from Virginia Tech and Harmon from Oregon every year. Go ahead.

[A]

I didn't see with Harmon as much on tape. I didn't see it, but I'll go back now. I'll go back and take another look. I didn't see Harmon as a great pass rusher.

[B]

Okay, well, please do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good thing we've. Good thing we have 65 days left until the NFL draft.

[A]

We'll get it right. I'll get it right.

[B]

I take a lot of pride in this mensch and it's. I'm just gonna sit here and get Tommy John surgery and pat myself on the back, but every year I feel like I. There's like one undervalued defense interior defensive lineman that I'm on.

[A]

Okay. Who's your guy?

[B]

Last year was Brandon Fisk. And it was early, it was before he. But he still wound up going in the second round. He was DT7.

[A]

He was a nightmare at the end of the season. He was unbelievable in that ACC championship.

[B]

Game, but no one wanted to get on board, really. He was the seventh interior defensive line lineman drafted last year, bud.

[A]

Where'd he go? He went in the top 50, though.

[B]

Yeah, he was in the second round. Yeah, but I was like, I was banging, banging on the table for this guy as a first rounder. Had him at like 26 overall. Okay. Adam is like the third, I think the third interior defensive lineman, something like that. Keanu Benton, year before, he was defensive line interior defensive lineman number five. Taken second round by the Steelers. Justin Matabwe, third round by the Ravens. Go all the way back to 2015. Sitting in hotel rooms bitching, scouts coming in and out. Why not Grady, Jerry? Because he's short, right? This guy's an absolute terror. He was a 5th round pick by the Falcons.

[A]

That's crazy to me, right? That was unbelievable that he fell out.

[B]

Now that I'm done. Now that I'm done patting myself on the back and getting Tommy John surgery. I'm just saying there's one guy. Yes, I will calm down. And I guess almost I'm doing it so that you can make fun of me, but I'm saying there's always one guy that jumps out to me. And I've already said his name today. And I. And I have said it multiple times. Omar Norman, lot. There's something about this Guy, man, he's stout, he's shorter than everyone else, so he doesn't look like he's not as physically intimidating. You put him next to Walter Nolan. You put him next to even like Tim Smith of the Senior bowl is this hulking dude, right? Omar Norman Lot checked into the senior bowl at 616017. So under 6 foot 2295 pounds. But he had 33 and 58 inch arm length. Okay. Which is above average. He had a. He has a. Listen to this. 11 and an 8th inch hand span. And I promise you, for defensive linemen that can actually legally use their hands and control blocks and the strength that they need and to. To shove, move, slide, whatever to lock out versus offensive tackles or offensive guards is an interior defensive lineman. As you're trying to locate the. The football in the backfield and then to right disengage. It's important. And then you look at his pass rush win rate. 8 the best of the group. 19.4, bud. That's up there with like, with like the top guys. It as edge rushers. Like Mike Green was 22%. He's at 19.4. Okay.

[A]

All right. He's. I love that build for a defensive tackle, by the way. Yes. Naturally low center of gravity and 295 at that build. You're. It's. It's. That's a good weight at that size. And then you add the juice. He explodes off the ball. So you got a guy. Good luck trying to get underneath Norman Lot as an. As an offensive lineman. Good luck getting underneath him. And then he can. He has enough length again. He's long for, for that height. So he's enough length to get into your frame. He really uses his hand well. Hands well. He's, he's. He's a good player. One thing I, I'll ask you. Doesn't play. Play a lot of snaps this year.

[B]

No one on Tennessee did they rotate like 14 guys. So if you're. If you're gonna bang the drum on James. No, if you bang the drum on James Pierce Jr. While everyone else is criticizing say, well, the tape wasn't there this year. I. Well, he's always rested and of course he is fresh. Like, like that's a lot of the complaints, right?

[A]

Whose voice is that? Is that my voice?

[B]

No, it's all, it's all the other people that are making the complaints. But now I'm hearing you throw that at me with Omar Norman Lott. It's the same. Are you.

[A]

Well, it's I'll say it's a little bit different. I think that James Pierce. I like Norman Lott's build and I like the. I like the way his tape is awesome and all those things. James Pierce is a unique athlete. He is. He is. His tools are elite, I think. I'm not sure you can say that about Norman Lott, but that being said, I'm, I'm nitpicking.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I'm getting into an argument I don't want to get into just because that's how I am with you. I love Morgan Lot tape, but people might look at that and say he was fresh all the time.

[B]

Great. I'm going to remind you that like in like six minutes when we get to. To James Pierce Jr. I don't disagree with you on Mason Graham. Just to kind of put this, put a. I don't want to say a bow on it, but just to add a little con or not context. I think at this point, just to give my opinion on the, on the tears where you are. I agree with you on Mason Graham. He's. He's. He's in a league of his own. I think Grant, Kenneth Grant, his teammate Walter Nolan and Derek Harmon, unlike you, are in that second tier for me. All like, late first. Okay. Then there's a third tier for me. And this is the kind of the. The thickest tier, if you will. And you can break them up into two, but let's just call it one tier for now. Okay. Because I do think it's probably two tiers, but I'm going to throw out a bunch of names in there that I think when you're sorting through these, these are the names that you have to keep in consideration. I think Alfred Collins isn't there from Texas. I think Omar Norman Lott is in there from Tennessee. I think Darius Alexander is in there from Toledo to go along with guys like Joshua Farmer, Josh Farmer from Florida State. Ty Leak Williams, who. I'm surprised you're still really high on Ty Leak Williams, another three technique along with TJ Sanders, who you love from South Carolina. Those guys are classic three techniques. Ty Leak Williams, TJ Sanders, Darius Alexander. Okay. I also would include Shemar Turner, but probably a little lower in that. In that bucket or tier. Jordan Phillips would be low in that bucket of tier. Aeneas Williams. I'm sorry, Anais People. Peebles from Virginia Tech, also in. In that tier. If we're. Maybe you break it into a second tier there, but that's a bunch of guys. Collins, Farmer, Tylee Williams, TJ Sanders, Darius Alexander, Omar. Norman, Lot, Shamar Turner, Jordan. Phillips, Peebles. That's nine guys. So yeah, we're gonna break that into two. But my point is that's all in that second, early mid third round range.

[A]

Okay, what do you got with JJ Bakis? Do you have him in there and all Peggies.

[B]

Yeah, I like Pegis. I like, I like his natural athleticism. I like his movement skills. I think he's still developing as a player. I think it's cute that he carries the ball in fourth down. It's fun. You know, the crowd loves that thick six. And big guy, he plays on the.

[A]

Outside almost as much as he does on the inside. He's athletic, man. At 320, whatever pounds he's. He is athletic.

[B]

I think I, I would put him in, in the next tier after those guys, whether it's tier four or five, but still very much in the running for day three pick. But in that tier, I would also include. Dion Walker. Is a monster of a man. Six, seven.

[A]

Some people thought he was the first coming into the year.

[B]

Six. Yes. Six, seven, three, four, zero. 34 and a half inch arms, ten and three quarter inch hands. Plays like a three technique, though.

[A]

Body of a.

[B]

Body of like a Casey Hampton old school nose tackle, Right. Massive guy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But pads too high. Gets moved too easily by leverage. Right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But shouldn't be able to move that way at his size. So like I'm a, I'm a D line coach and I get involved now at this point in the process, I want to know, is he coachable? What's his work ethic? Like, what are his eating habits? Those are the things I need to know. Because if this guy is. And he's willing to work with me and he's going to put in the grind, my gosh, there's a lot of clay here to mold, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So that, that's why he's intriguing as a, as a late day two prospect. Ty Robinson's another one. I want to dig in a little deeper on Ty Robinson from Nebraska, right?

[A]

Yeah. He's a good player, man.

[B]

And, and, and Ty Hamilton from Ohio State.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

Probably early fourth, but like could be a top, top 100 pick.

[A]

I mean, just talent everywhere. Yes, everywhere.

[B]

All right. That's the interior defensive lineman. And I want to remind everyone when they come to me and say this class sucks. Right.

[A]

Such a bitter old man.

[B]

This class isn't very good. Can't wait. What's 20, 26 looking like? Get out of here, man. Get out of here. Like, look at what the Eagles do. Look at what the Bills have done. Look at what the Ravens do. Right? Look at what the franchises that win year over year over year. Look at what the packers have done historically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Defensive lineman, like, this year is a gold mine, an absolute gold mine for this defensive line class. You got to take advantage. If you got three picks, use two of them on. On defensive front in the first two in the first three rounds. If you got four, you got a compensatory or traded pick, then use at least two, maybe three. Get your running back in the third or fourth, fifth, get your wide receiver late, get to take advantage of this class. And that brings me to the edge, guys. We talked about the perspective already. Edge. Edge defenders. 13 on average the last three years. In the first three rounds, we've got 20 with grades that belong there this year. 24 drafted in the last three years, on average. 36 with grades draftable, grades 35 invited to the combine. Edge is just as loaded. I don't know. You can make an argument. We. We'll argue that another day. We don't have time for it today. Which one's. Which one's? Deeper and stronger interior edge. I did a lot of work on this the last couple days. We have all season. But I really wanted to. I really wanted to break up this edge class, and I want to circle back after I'm done with this, but I wanted to give you two tiers match so that people were just. Just getting into this draft and are like, all right, McShay, you've sat here and you've been a blowhard. You haven't shut up about how deep and strong this group is. Well, tell me about them. What makes them so good? Well, here's what it is. Just like a defensive tackle or interior defensive lineman. There's a. There's a. A tier one guy. There's not many. There's only like four tier one guys in this entire class.

[A]

True. Right.

[B]

Truly. Maybe three. Abdul Carter. Abdul Carter's the tier one edge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He would go along with Travis Hunter and Mason Graham. I think that maybe. Yeah.

[A]

And. And Warren, I would say there's more Tyler Warren, too, at the tight end.

[B]

I'm going to put him at tier two because I'm tough with you. That elite tier, man. Here's the difference between you and I. I've had to go back. I've had to go back for 20 years and explain grades because for. At ESPN, there would be a graphic up there and there, and you would have to. You'd have to. They would line it up over 10 years, past decade, scouts, Inc. Draft grades, make sure. And so like, when I'm putting some. Someone in that tier one, like, I gotta live with that for a decade or more. And so I want to make.

[A]

I want to make this clear. I know you love Warren. I know you love him.

[B]

Absolutely obsessed with them.

[A]

He is 1000% a tier one tight end. He is without question a tier one tight end.

[B]

He's a tier one tight end, no question. But is he tier one? Like, the elite of the elite class? Like, up there, like the elite gray. I'm talking the elite grades that you're going to give over history. That's. That's where I'm. I'm not saying he's not definitively. I'm saying it's definitely like I'm in an argument with myself about genty, about Warren. Are they really just like, truly top tier two? Okay, okay, we'll have that discussion. Today's not the day. Yeah, we're gonna get into that.

[A]

We'll get into that.

[B]

Or the running back day. We did the running back day four days ago. My point being there's two tiers that I believe. All these guys belong in the first round, in my opinion.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. And let me just preface this by. I've had a lot of calls with scouts in the last 10 days, and we had a lot of conversations at the, at the Senior bowl as well, you and I on the field, in the stands, talking to guys, friends for. For decades or guys we've just met or what? Like, we've had a lot of conversations. Not everyone agrees with this, especially with a couple guys, but this is where I am. Okay? Abdul Carter's Tier 1 in. By himself, in the Edge class. Tier 2 is the fascinating part we talked about with Eric Dasa, GM of the Ravens. Like, get them in the bucket, right? But when they're in the bucket, that's when he uses a lot of that analytics and the data. And everyone remembers the headline from him saying that they use a Madden, Madden rating. But what people didn't probably take away, because they only listen to the headline, is it's part of like 140 different data points that go into this, as he calls it, a cocktail. All right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so it. That helps you sort within the bucket, as he calls it, or the tier for us. Here's my tier two. I'm going to list it off and I'm going to give you a little nugget. I'm Going to go back and give you a little nugget. Mikel Williams, Georgia Jalen Walker, Georgia James Pierce Jr. Tennessee Mike Green, Marshall Shemar Stewart, Texas A and m. Not like 92s and 91 grades. No, like not a big difference in grades. Tough to sort out. I think at this point that's where I am in terms of the rankings within that tier.

[A]

Don't hate it.

[B]

All right, Mikel, let me just give you my like even less than enough. I've got two floors on an elevator with a CEO to give you a little pitch and then, and then I'll come back into your office later and explain. Mikel Williams bet on his traits and part of his traits is his age. Okay? He's a pup. God doesn't make many human beings that look and are athletically gifted like him. The reason he's there is I'm betting on his traits. Jalen, he's got to be scheme fit and you got to have a plan. But the explosive traits are beyond exciting. James Pierce Jr. Most complete and advanced pass rusher with talent and traits involved, but most complete in advance. Like he's ready of this, of this tier. Mike Green, second best pure pass rusher of this group and maybe most complete player of this group. But his traits aren't as high in my opinion. Still very high. But his traits are not at the level of Mikel, Jalen and Pierce. And then Shemar Stewart is different in that he is power based production. Not yet. There's. But if you get him with a veteran group and a coach to untap, he's got a chance to be outstanding. That's my, that's my breakdown. Mikel. Let's just get into it. Mikel Williams, Abdul Carter, I think kind of speaks for itself. I don't even the casual fan knows like he is dynamic, he's explosive, he's, he's compared to Micah Parsons. I hate to put that bar on him. He's not there. He's not at the level that, that Micah Parsons was coming out necessarily, but just a slight notch below. He's like a former off the ball linebacker playing edge. Best fit is at edge in the NFL but could do both and play and provide that hybrid multiple facet to your defense if you need it. Unbelievably explosive. If you're looking for a feel good and trying to understand the will and the competitiveness of this young man, go watch the college football playoff final game of his collegiate career. Played with literally with one arm, one functional arm and was dominant in that game against Notre Dame. But Mikel, the top of tier two for me, he's tough to evaluate, man, because the thing that works against him is that Jalen Walker is, is opposite him. And sometimes they're on the same side and Jalen is so fast and so sudden and so explosive and Mikel is just built different. You're talking 65265. Okay. Tall body, beautiful long arms. He also. On tape. You got to keep this in perspective. I want to remind everyone he injured his ankle in the first game of the season against Clemson. So now you're watching a 6 5, 265 pounder on the same defensive front with Jalen walker, who's what, six?

[A]

I don't have the number six two, 245.

[B]

Six two, 245. So three inches short, shorter, 20 pounds lighter and, and older and is more, you know, more experience. Mikel's going to be 20 years old when he's drafted, bud.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

His birthday is June 29, 2004. We're getting old. But he dealt with a late. He dealt with a so. So you've got this young pup who's 20 years old, who's probably 19. Yeah, it's 20 years old during this past season, dealing with a lingering ankle injury.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Who's taller and. And bigger, significantly 20 pounds and 3 inches. He just doesn't look as explosive and dynamic when you're comparing it to him. But it's. But versus the run, I think he, I don't want to call him outstanding or elite, but he's going to be a damn good run defensive end in the NFL. So like, it's just like, check that box. Strong at the point of attack, tough to move, locks out, locates, disengages with relative ease. Tackles with authority. Solid range. He's a 43 defensive end, can plug him at left or right. He's very good run defender and that, that stuff travels to the NFL.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he's only going to get better as he gets more mature, older, stronger, better technique. Pass rusher. Again, it's the traits. He's not there yet, but you can't coach the long arms. He's got unbelievably quick hands. Swipes and, and rip like he, he's like when he uses them correctly. He's got unbelievably quick hands, shows enough power to convert speed to power as a pass rusher. Athletically gifted, smooth mover, great forward lean when he fires out as, as a pure pass rusher when he knows he's with third downs, obvious pass downs. Great for like. Like he's not to the bosa level. No two edges that I ever watched with their length.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, unbelievable. Like. Like JPP was a little bit like that. Like, certain guys, like, it's almost like they're. They're skidding on the. On the water. Like they're fire out so low. He's got a little bit of that. Not quite to the level, but he also. The thing I love about him, there's this natural ability that all great pass rushers have. This natural ability. It's like an instinct. Again, like, God gave this to you. He was born to be a pass rusher. Natural ability to keep his hands and legs moving, to advance his rush while engaged. All the great ones. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now still developing his plan as a pass rusher. Counter moves aren't there. Inconsistent with gap integrity. I know you've seen that a lot on tape. Not horrible, but there are times where you're like, kirby's not gonna like that.

[A]

You know, it gotta be a long film session.

[B]

And while. And while his hands are super quick and. And there's a lot to work with there. He doesn't always land his punches. Okay, so that's where I am. How about this?

[A]

How about the first Texas tape is all I need for him.

[B]

The first.

[A]

Go back and watch the first Texas tape.

[B]

And you, Walker.

[A]

Yeah, but again. But let's talk about Mikel for a minute. Mikel in that first Texas game was, I thought, dominant.

[B]

Absolutely. How about this for a comp? It's not a current one, but it remind Zeke Ansa.

[A]

Huh. That's interesting. I don't hate that.

[B]

Do you remember the story with Zeke Ansa? And I'm not. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying, like, when he came over to byu, I remember getting a call from my really good friend Rod Gilmore. He's like, check this guy out. I just. I just talked to the coaching staff. He got here, he was. He was doing something like intramural sports or some other. Maybe basketball. Whatever it was, they asked him to come out and he's like, sure, I'll try that. I'll try football.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They had to teach him how to, like, tie. Like, tie up his shoulder pad. They put his helmet on. He didn't know anything. Okay. And like, two years later, they developed him into a player that was worth drafting but still had a lot of work to do. I'm not saying Mikel's that raw or. But I'm saying as a 20 year old when he's drafted, you're getting a very raw version of what you expect to get in a year or two.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

Big, long, power based, but like quick and athletic and sudden in his own regard. I liked it, but you can leap off.

[A]

I think he's farther along than that. But yeah, you said that.

[B]

He is farther along. No question.

[A]

That's a problem with comps, man. That's. That's where they get tricky, right? Everyone's like, well, he's not exactly like that guy. Well, yeah, it's a comp.

[B]

How many comps did you give me for interior defensive lineman?

[A]

I've been really good about the comps. Not today. No. No comps today.

[B]

Okay. Want to get to Jalen Walker?

[A]

Let's do Jalen Walker.

[B]

All right. Here's what I saw on tape, and I, I feel like everyone's going to give him this. A similar compl. You go the Micah Parsons route. You know any off the ball linebacker who moved it. His tape is interesting because it's like legit, rotating from one position to the next, right? He's, he's, he's pass rushing. The A gap, the B gap, the C gap, the D gap, from off the ball and from the edge. And I said this to Albert Brier when we were talking yesterday. The. Like, when, when you get a guy like Micah, when you got a guy like, like Abdul, when you got a guy like Jaylon there, like for the rest of those types, it's like, what is he? He's a hybrid, but it works as a negative. Like, what's his fit? What's his.

[A]

Is he a tweener or is he a hybrid?

[B]

Correct, He's a hybrid.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And. And as defensive coordinator, my mind immediately goes through. I can use this guy in like five different spots. And I, like, it doesn't matter if it's first and 10 or third and 18 or third and three. Like, there's a place on the field for him. And in, In a game now where we're seeing, you know, substitution packages, tempo at times, like all the different facets of the, the modern NFL game, having those guys that, that provide multiplicity for defensive coordinator. Like when you talk to defensive coordinators, whether college or NFL, like you could. It's like a drinking game. He makes us multiple. Everything's multiple. We need to be multiple here. We got to be multiple. That's why they love Brian Branches of the World and Sander Str. And you know what I mean? Give me guys that allow us to be multiple Jalen gives, gives you that. I actually think, interestingly enough he's played more ball off the, off the ball linebacker. I actually think he's a better edge.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I, I, I, I think his tape, I just think he's better when he's turned. Like when I watch him off the ball and taking on blocks and all that stuff. Like he's good, he's a really, really good player. But I'm more excited about him as an edge rusher than I was as an off the ball linebacker. And there's a lot of both tapes. Like I promise you, when you're watching the tape, it's like, where is he? You got to find him. It's not like is he at the right edge or left edge. He's literally all over the place in that front seven. Explosive burst off the edge. I wrote this in my notes. Sudden, sudden, sudden rusher. Everything is sudden from his feet to his hands. I love like the suddenness with his dip and rip move that he gets around. Excellent stop start quickness. Guys that like redirect get in the backfield. Quarterbacks like quarterbacks are moving more and more like than ever before. So when you get back there, that's part, that's like the first piece of the puzzle right now. What do you do? Because now you got a guy who runs a four or five who sees you coming or feels you coming. Right. And is and does that, the quick spin move or what, you know, he's able to.

[A]

Right, right. I love that. I hope people see that because you're not going to hear that. But that was great.

[B]

But like it's better than me being like stop and re. No, no, it's perfect change. Like that's exactly, it's like a, you see it on tape. It's like right, yeah, that's what he does. He's got snap in his hands. Elite closing burst. I can't stand when people say see heat seeking missile.

[A]

But like he's a heat seek missile.

[B]

Yes, he instinctively he works half a man doesn't, doesn't show his pads a lot. Has flexibility and strength to advance the rushes. He's going through contact. Yeah, there's a lot to like now versus the run. The vast majority of his positively graded run plays at edge or when he's in space and on the move. Okay. That's what I noticed. He's not a guy who's going to like set a hard edge and do that for you. So, so to me he's, he's a 3, 4 edge and like More of an undersized scheme. You think back like Ravens, Steelers, like guys that. Okay with the shorter versions. Right. But I like his tape. I like his tape a lot.

[A]

But. Are you worried about the frame?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, let me.

[B]

He gets thrown. So here, here's what I wrote. Gets knocked off course too easily at times, swallowed up on occasion. He's got. He's gonna have to be an absolute surgeon with his hands in order to continue this production at the next level. And it wasn't. He was damn good all year. Phenomenal against Texas twice, but especially that first game. But there are moments where you're like. And that's why you. That's not what. That's why he's not in that first tier with Abdul.

[A]

So I went through and I looked at the top 10 leaders for sacks in the NFL last year in the regular season, okay, there's actually 11 players because there's a tie for 10th. Right.

[B]

I love when you do this. I love it.

[A]

All of all the players.

[B]

There was four of them. Good.

[A]

Four of them. That and there's probably a better way to gauge who the best pass rushes are. Just a quick exercise. We can get into this deeper if we want to later on. Just quick exercise. Four of them were sub 250 pounds. Okay. So that was actually a higher number. So there's 11 players.

[B]

We've done this in the past where it's been like two.

[A]

Right. So and. And one of them is Nick bonito, who was £240. I saw that was a young cat. Another one's will Anderson, who's 243. So some of these younger players are coming into the league. But what's most interesting to me, 60.

[B]

Now, but go ahead.

[A]

You're probably right. He's right. But anyways, what's more interesting to me is the height. Only one of them is under six three and that's my dad, six two. So what was. I saw that and I was like, wow, this height thing, there might be.

[B]

A unicorn man here.

[A]

I get it, I get it. But we are. There are three guys that we're going to talk about like this Josiah Stewart from Michigan and Donovan Ezaruku from Boston College who we all like and they're all explosive and they win and they get to the quarterback and all those things. But historically, are these guys really those early round picks and is it maybe just one of them or is there a trend in the league, is there now a trend in the league that these lighter, shorter edge rushers Whether it's coordinators finding a way, whether more athletic, whatever it is. Maybe there's a trend going that way, but it is interesting where we stand right now in this draft and looking at it historically. These guys, like, I mean, Trey Hen Hendrickson is the best pass rusher of the league. Probably. He's six. He's six four, two seven. Miles Garrett, 64, 272. These guys are big.

[B]

So what. What, T.J. watts.

[A]

Yeah. Six, four, two, five five. I mean, he's a big.

[B]

He's. He's got to be at least, right?

[A]

These guys, that's the other thing. Will they come in and add weight if you're 6:1? I don't know. We'll see. What, what, you know, Jalen Walker is. I will say this, and I'm just going to mention him because you haven't mentioned him in your top tier. Maybe you're going to get to him later. I am absolutely in love with Donovan Nezaruku from Boston College.

[B]

All right, we'll get to it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

We'll get back to it.

[B]

Shocking. You love a BC kid. All right, so. But I honestly, I think this is a perfect transition because I wanted it. I, I like. It was beautiful the way you just dropped that in. And it's why, it's why after really studying more tape and I, like, I, I always say this. It's a. Air. I'm air traffic control in my mind.

[A]

Let's, let's.

[B]

Let's get all the planes taken off in last May. Now let's start getting them in the right direction when we get into the season, get to the Senior bowl. Now we, like, we're getting a flight plan. Like, we've, we've established when our, when our landing time is okay. But now when we're in this part of the process, as we start, get like, we're on the doorstep of this, of the combine next week. And after the combine, then, with all the new information we have, then it's like, all right, like, we got to stack them and land these planes in order. 90 seconds apart. We're a major airport. Let's go. And that's why, as we get closer to the draft, the gap between Mikel Williams, Jalen Walker and James Pierce gets closer and closer and closer because I've got one cat who's. Who's massive, who's only 20 years old, Mikel, who's got all the traits to be elite, but he had. We haven't seen it yet. Is it because he's only 20 is it because he had an ankle injury? He was slowed up, but I haven't seen it yet. But, but if they all pan out and they're the best version of themselves and they're developed properly, which you can't bank on all those things, but if they are, Mikel should be the best of this second tier.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Jalen is the, is even though he's played off the ball linebacker, like I know what I'm getting with him. It's just, is that going to be enough to be a, a double digit sack guy every year in the league? Can he overcome that size that you're talking about? And that's why as we get closer, if I'm starting to make this decision, James Pierce to me from Tennessee is starting to get like, it gets tighter and tighter because I'm looking at James Pierce and I'm saying, well, of these three guys, he's, he's got six, four and a half, 245, 250 pounds. He's estimated to run like four or five. Okay. Get pretty long arms on tape from what I can see. Okay. Carries his weight beautifully. Got room to bulk up if he, you know, properly, if he does it. 6 Best pass rush win rate of, of all the, of all the edges this year and did it in the SEC. 22.4%. I want to give you some perspective on this while we're here. So many damn notes. I'm gonna probably mess this up. Give you a little perspective if I can find it. Oh, and we actually built a graphic for it. I was prepared for once. Tucker, if you got that graphic, let's put it. The pass rush win rate leaders. These are the guys from the combine. If you're watching on, on YouTube, watching on Spotify, you're able to see this. This is a list of the, the pass rush win rate leaders from the combine. Invites. Okay, Josiah Stewart's up there, 27.4, which is outrageous. Michigan, Hugh Robinson. We'll talk about him. I don't know if we'll even get to him today, but he is an intriguing mid round prospect that I, that I've watched enough tape to say that I like, I think I like him more than some other people. Abdul Carter, as expected, 23% Princely woman. Omenmiellen from Ole Miss, 22.9% Elijah Roberts. Very interesting. 290 pound edge. 290 men. Squares up three four point stance in that scheme. Playing a lot of interior defensive line. He's not your classic edge. He's 290 and he's still at 22 point, 22.5. Then James Pierce. I only see Abdul Carter there. I don't see Jalen Walker. I don't see Mikel. Okay. Also feeding into. Just a quick side note, feeding into that is the fact that There were only two draft prospects last year with grades of 21% or higher. Liatu Latu and Jared Verse. We've seen. We saw the rookie years that they had, right? The next highest in that group was 20.9%. Chop Robinson, good year as well. Yeah, those are all great grades is my point. All great grades, but the only two last year were of higher than 21% were Latu and Verse. This year you've got 10 guys, men. 10 compared to two. So when we talk about how great this class is, 10 guys. Josiah Stewart, Hugh Robinson, Abdul Carter, Uman Melon from Ole Miss. Elijah Roberts, James Pierce, Jr. Braden Swinson from LSU at 22%. Mike Green at 22%. David Walker, Central Arkansas, small, small school guy. Really impressive tape. Ashton Galat from. From Louisville. All 10 of those guys. All 10 with higher grades than 21% versus just two a year ago. So James Pierce, he's growing on me, man. I know you love him. First step, explosiveness. Outstanding. Fast, long, like, explosive athletic traits. Every move is sudden. I love this, right? He keeps offensive tackles in constant panic for what's next. Have you noticed that on tape?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great passer. Like, I've had the. The luxury and. And been, like, fortunate to spend a lot of time over my 25 years with former NFL players, all positions and. And not, like, bad ones if they're working in television, especially offensive linemen, they were damn good at their craft to a T. And I. And, you know, we did this with Brusque, and I do this to every. Every former player. Like, what scares you the most? Always asking. Tell. Tell me more. Offensive lineman. Like, you can be four, three, off the edge. I don't give a shit. You can be 290 and be an absolute bulldozer. I don't really care. But if you can do both, now I'm gonna panic. Now I'm gonna pay. And with James Pierce, it's like, because he's so sudden and he's got those long arms, he can get up and he can. He can jack it back a little bit. I. I don't see, like, great core power from him in terms of, like, standing a guy up and driving him, but I do see that, like, whack, like, suddenly where he's going to jack you up just enough and then. And then the quickness and suddenness are going to take over. Right. That striking pop is what I wrote over and over again. He just like that pop advances through contact which we all. We always look for much more power in. In terms of that first strike and in his hands than his frame would indicate. Moves the quarterback. If you go back and just look, no matter how it is, whether he's. He's on a stunt, a twist, rushing off the edge, outside in, move inside out move all of it. He is a total headache to deal with in the passing game. Count how many times this guy, even if it's not technically a pressure or a hurry or whatever the bleep your like numbers are if it's not a sack. Count how many times he makes that quarterback think about him. And as a former terrible quarterback at a low level and like there's nothing worse than having to take your train of thought off of what you're processing and knowing that this guy's consistently do and it. And it takes a toll over the course of a game.

[A]

Look at Mahomes in the Super Bowl. I mean that's, that's exactly what's happening now.

[B]

He's a bit high cut quarter cout slower than ideal redirecting in the backfield. That's. That's the thing if I've got one about James Pierce Jr. Is a prospect. It's that everything else is like he's long body, beautiful fast, explosive, sudden popping his hands, all of that. He leaves a lot of sacks and plays on. Not a lot. He leaves more than you'd like to see on. On tape. He leaves him on the field because I think he's got some tightness in him when he gets back there. We talked about Jaylen Walker. It's. It's right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

He's like. He's not quite. Chris Feman always used to say that it's like watching the Titanic. Titanic try to try to change cord.

[A]

Like Yep.

[B]

He's not that like don't, don't. Don't get me, don't get me wrong here. But he takes a quarter count longer and will kind of lose his ballot sometimes when he gets in the back field. Field. Yeah. And I, and I think more of a consistent plan with him. But you can say that about just about all these guys in support. Active, excellent range. Gets off of blocks, very good in pursuit, pursuit, pursuit. Can get into pads and move. You can get into his pads and move them a little bit. In the run game, but for the most part stays active and disruptive. I think he's a perfect fit. Like wide nine, Tampa two right defensive end three, four, edge. He. We know what he does best. Here's my comp. Adafe away.

[A]

Out of Penn State, Baltimore Ravens.

[B]

I see some similarities. I'm not saying it's perfect, but some similarities there.

[A]

I don't hate that one.

[B]

That's good. So that's where I am. And. And I don't want to sit here. And Shemar Stewart, we've talked a lot about power based. Loved his. Loved his Missouri tape. Talked to a scout the other day. He's like, yeah, well, what about the six other tapes I watched? You know, like, I'm. I feel like I'm fighting more people in the league on Shamar Stewart. And I explained it the other day, so I don't want to, like, be repetitive here, but there are some people in the league that worry when the production doesn't match up. There's a couple guys you can look in history and say, yeah, it didn't match up for Chandler Jones or for this guy. But at the end of the day, there are. If there's two guys that. Where it did work out and they became great Pros, there's like 20 guys that didn't. Yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't. I don't want to give. I think Daniel Hunter might have been. Been another one. So I. But I still like Stewart. I think in the right. In the right environment, Shamar Stewart's got a chance to be really good. And Mike Green, we talked about him a lot at the combine. Just dominant. But that's. That's my tier two. No, as a result, tier three.

[A]

I'm dying to talk about it, man.

[B]

I mean, I'm gonna let you go here. At the top of tier 3 are two of your guys. So I'm gonna let you take it. I've talked too much, per usual. But okay, here's this. Here's this tier three where I think we get into early second round. And I'm gonna list off the tier three and know that there's a tier four behind it with a lot of really big names and a lot of good players that I all think belong in that third round range. Okay, that's tier four, but tier three to me is your boy AS Aruku, Nick Scorton, both of your boys, Braden Swinson, who's quickly becoming one of my guys, JTT from Ohio State, Olu Oladejo, Oladejo who I love from ucla. I just love his story. He's another guy played off the ball, move up, found his home at edge this past year. Unbelievable production. Unbelievable. Just dog traits. I I I think he's going to be a really good pro. And Josiah Stewart, who was at the top of that list if you remember 27.4 is absolutely that's more than that's more than a quarter of the time that he's going to wind up winning his pass rush, which is pretty good. Just stupid. So let's have a debate on on as a as a Raku Donovan as a rock. It's Ezraku. I looked it up yesterday. 62248 long arms 34 and a half. Here's what I wrote. Efficient with hands and feet. Not a lot of wasted movement. Not as explosive or fast as James Pierce, but I would say better body control. We talked about that.

[A]

I would totally agree with that.

[B]

Great body control. He doesn't have that. A lot of waste to say. When he has to redirect he's everything's under control. He gets into offensive tackles, pads, he locates the ball. His special trait is then to disengage in a flash. That's his special trait. He is so good with his hands and his ability to disengage rushes with good body lean. Good job keeping offensive tackles off balance. He does a really good job. If you watch him on tape. You get used to it. Outside in or inside out move. Excellent dip with that body control around the edge. Everything's body control. I keep going back to that. But he's short man. He got moved off course too easily by bigger more competent offensive tackles. That's what I noticed as I was going through his tape going through his pass rush tape. Bigger, more competent offensive tackles really pushed him off course. Easier than you'd want to see from a guy you're talking about as a top 50 pick. Sometimes will need to become an absolute master class is what I wrote with his pass rush plan and continue with his hands in order to develop into a double digit sack guy in the NFL. But he led the nation this past year with 1.38 sacks per game and second nationally with 16 and a half sacks only behind Mike Green who had 17 playing at Marshall. And also his his pass rush win rate while not in the top 10 in this ridiculous class was still like 4th or 5th compared to last year it was 18.2% I it's such a lazy comp. But there's a lot of similarities with Harold Landry from Tennessee. I just don't think he's quite at that level that I thought Landry was. Was. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

[A]

What I love about him, first of all, yes, led the FBS in sax per game. He also led the ACC in tackles for loss. So when you look at a player, he's £248, you look like a player. You look at that kind of a player and, and you expect him to be a good pass rusher and you expect him to be slippery and get into the backfield and he does all of those things. But the thing I really love about his game is the way he dictates terms of engagement with offensive tackles. And what I mean by that is he will slip you to the inside, he will beat you around the edge. You're like, this guy's so quick. He's smaller, he's quick. I'm having a hard time keeping him out of the backfield. And the next thing you know, you're taking a deeper step or you're kind of holding back a little bit to try to, to counter that athleticism and that explosiveness. And he shoots those 34 inch arms on you and he stands you up with that explosive burst. And all of a sudden you're like, is this 248 pound kid stacking me right now in the run game? And you. He sure is, man. I just like the way he sets things up. And it's, it's, it's in the run game as much as it is in the past game. That would, that's what really took me back, is that.

[B]

And here's second on the team with 80 tackles and 20 tackles for loss. Yeah, I mean that's 80 tackles.

[A]

Because he can win in so many ways. He's, he's going to beat you to the inside gap. He's going to beat you around the, around the outside. And again, you're trying to counter that and you do that as an offensive lineman by taking a deeper step, by, you know, sitting back a little bit, trying not to get so far out that he can come, you know, he can beat you off the ball. And the next thing you know, he shoots those arms, he's standing you up and it's, it's kind of out of nowhere. And then what do you do? Do you put two blockers on him? Well, his alignment makes that pretty tough to do, man. And then you run away from him. Good luck. That kid closes in pursuit. Super. Well, he gets down the line and makes plays chasing, chasing running backs.

[B]

Super.

[A]

Well, I, I was, I knew he was going to be good. The more I, I and I, I already liked what I had seen. And then the more I dug in on his tape, I was like, if I'm going to take a chance on a shorter guy, I'm going to take a guy a chance on a shorter guy with outrageous production, with long arms, a great motor and great tape. I think he's. I get what you're saying. And it, there are times I see it too. If you can get, if you're a 325 pound guy or 315 pound guy and you can get your hands on him, he's in trouble, he's light, he's short. Good luck getting your hands on him. That's all I'm gonna say. Good luck getting a fit on that guy.

[B]

30 guys, 36 guys, I guess. 36 guys we have. With grades in the first three rounds. Defensive tackle Edge. This group is special. It really is. So as I said before, stop with this. This class isn't that good because it's loaded. And this is what NFL teams that are successful, this is when they, like, this is a heist. This is like the Gold Rush. I'm telling you, like, the guys that do this at a high level, Howie Roseman, right? Brett Veach, Schneider, go down.

[A]

I mean, like, let's need what he did last year.

[B]

Let's need, let's need two of them from the same school. Let's go get our guys. We're back to using draft picks.

[A]

Yeah. Still the greatest T shirt of all time, though.

[B]

Billy Bean, Eric Dacosta, Nick Casario. Learned from a pretty good one in Belichick. All those. Yeah, you know, Bill's. We can debate his drafting record and all that stuff, but, like, the, the premise was always there. Let's get these big guys up front and we're loaded this year. Thank you, everyone, for being a part of this, for downloading, for liking, for subscribing. Please. If you haven't done it just. It takes 30 seconds, maybe 20 if you're good. If you're like one of my kids, it's like eight seconds. Like, all right, give us some love. We, we really appreciate all the support, though, truly. And we're excited for the next, this next couple weeks, and we're excited to bring you the best content we can possibly provide. Men. Love you, brother.

[A]

Love you, too, man.

[B]

You ready for this run?

[A]

I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm nervous, I'm excited. There's, I mean, it's it's going to be great.

[B]

It would not be draft season if you weren't a little nervous and excited. So we're in a good place. All right, we'll see you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York SA.