First-Round Pivot Points, Jordyn Tyson Stock Watch, and the McShay Mailbag

Summary

The McShay Show | First-Round Pivot Points, Jordyn Tyson Stock Watch, and the McShay Mailbag

Date: April 10, 2026
Hosts: Todd McShay & Steve Muench
Podcast: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

Todd McShay and Steve Muench deliver a deep-dive on the most influential decision points in the upcoming NFL Draft, focusing on the outsized roles the New York Giants (pick 5) and Kansas City Chiefs (pick 9) will play in shaping the first round. The episode features:

• In-depth analysis of Jordyn Tyson’s draft profile and rising draft buzz
• Debates on positional value and team needs at the draft’s most critical spots
• McShay’s annual “All Satellite Team” of space-creator prospects
• Listener mailbag covering trade-up scenarios, safe prospect trends, and more

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Key Discussion Points & Analysis

1. Giants & Chiefs: First-Round “Pivot Points”

[00:06–04:00, 19:01–27:00]

• McShay’s thesis: Picks 5 (Giants) and 9 (Chiefs) will “hold the keys to the entire first round”—they’ll set off positional runs and domino effects down the board.
• Giants’ options: Could solidify their direction with Harbaugh’s first pick—do they prioritize physicality (OL, defense) or skill (WR, CB, etc.)?
• Chiefs: Rarely pick in the top 10; could surprise with a tackle, a weapon, or a projected “outlier” like Jordyn Tyson.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Why the Chiefs at 9 and the Giants at 5 are so intriguing to me is—when does [the run on tackles] start?” (A [Todd McShay], 25:06)

2. Jordyn Tyson Stock Watch: The Draft's Most Polarizing Player

[02:05–14:48]

Detailed Breakdown

• Background: Tyson’s stock is hard to pin down; he’s viewed anywhere from a top-10 pick to potentially slipping to the 20s.
• Physical Profile: 6’2+, 200+ lbs, “phenomenal route runner,” improved ball skills year-over-year.
  • Noteworthy: Spent time training with Hines Ward.
• Durability red flags:
  • Missed one of every three games in college.
  • Major injuries: 2022 (ACL/MCL/PCL, Colorado), 2023 (collarbone, ASU), 2025 (hamstring).
  • McShay: “These are not injuries that are toughness injuries...we’re talking ACL, PCL, MCL tear and a collarbone break. Like, get out of here.” (A, 06:02)
• The “toughness” debate:
  • Tape shows Diggs-like separation and hands, but not “hammer/nail-tough” after the catch.
  • He body catches at times and isn’t seen as a tone-setter for physicality-demanding schemes.
  • Quote:
    • “He’s not that. Now, then you have scouts come out...and yeah, they don’t like how he body catches some stuff...It makes him one of the most polarizing players.” (A, 07:23)
  • Some teams see him as a fit for wide-open, spread offenses—others wouldn’t touch him before the late first.
• Comparison to Competing WRs:
  • “He’s right there for me...Talent tells you he belongs up in that upper echelon in this year’s wide receiver class.” (B, 10:52; A, 10:52)
• Draft media/insider dynamics:
  • “This is old news to NFL teams, but it’s new news to the media.” (A, 16:27)

Takeaway:

• Tyson’s projection depends almost entirely on scheme fit and risk tolerance for his injury history.

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3. First-Round Decision Paths: Giants, Chiefs, and the OT Run

[17:54–32:00]

• Giants’ dilemma:

  • Top board: Love (RB), Reese (LB), Mendoza (QB), Bailey (ED), Styles (LB), Downs (S), Carnell Tate (WR), Maui Noah (OL).
  • OL need debated: Do they pass on “value” for positional urgency (given OT drop-off after Rd1)? Or load up on weapons for their young QB?
  • “My quarterback is going to get banged up because the way he plays…If I can’t protect him and keep him healthy, then what are we doing?” (A, 34:43)

• Chiefs at 9:

  • Rare top-10 pick; “could be Fano if they take an offensive tackle…it might be Jordan Tyson…[the Chiefs] will zag every time you go to zig.” (A, 39:10)
  • Surprise WR pick (Tyson over Tate), or perhaps a tackle if board falls right.

• Tackle run timing:

  • A “brush fire” if the Giants go OL at 5—impacts Cleveland, KC, Miami, Dallas, etc.
  • “The run on tackles is going to happen fast…If you don’t get one in the first, you ain’t getting one.” (A, 44:43)

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4. The All Satellite Team: Best Playmakers in Space

[45:34–54:23]

• Concept: McShay’s annual list of college prospects who “create in space”—dynamic, elusive, explosive.
• 2026 highlight:
  • Winner: Zachariah Branch (USC WR)
    • “He is so blinding. He is so explosive…I could make an argument he’s the sixth-best receiver in this draft.” (A, 49:39)
    • At just 5’8”, 177 lbs—lightning quickness, game-breaking production, dangerous return man.
• Steve’s pick:
  • Demond Claiborne (Wake Forest RB)
    • “He does not need much of a crease…Whether it’s return, runner, receiver—he gets a crease, he’s gone.” (B, 51:37)
  • Praised for speed, vision, surprising power, and willingness as a pass blocker.
• Funny moment:
  • Claiborne’s emotional intensity described: “He drops a ball, picks up the ball and Gronk spikes it. I’m like, ‘Yeah, I could see that.’” (B, 53:35)
• McShay’s take:
  • Great satellite players often outperform draft slot due to their unique space-creation skills.

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5. Mailbag: Trade-Ups, “Safe” Prospects, and Draft Board Trends

[55:50–64:39]

Trade-Up Math & Market

• Question: Cost to move up from the teens to picks 8–10?
  • “You’d like to get away with that—like a mid-third and a fifth...That’s the jumping off point of negotiation.” (A, 56:57)

Are “Safe” Prospects Rising?

• Teams may value prospects without medical red flags or positional “outliers” (Venga Iowane, Dylan Thienamen).
• But: “Taking a guard or safety or off ball LB isn’t safe just from a positional approach...Those guys are the names you hear picks 28–32 of who could sneak in late, you know.” (B, 64:23; A, 58:33)

Will Top Teams Actually Move Up?

• New Orleans, Dallas, Kansas City, Rams analyzed as potential movers, but most contending rosters “need their picks” and have multiple holes.
• McShay: “The teams that have a lot of picks need them. Yeah, I don’t…Pittsburgh maybe not, but that’s not their DNA...The teams with a lot of picks kind of need them.” (A, 68:59)
• “There could be a lot of movement…when we get to a certain portion of the first round…[though] it certainly is not going to be for any quarterbacks after [the top].” (A, 69:46)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “What is gold to some people is bronze to others.” (A, 11:30) – On team-specific valuation of prospects
• “There’s a long list of guys who have gone in the 20s at WR and actually have failed…It’s a higher percentage than you would think.” (A, 14:05)
• “All Satellite Team is guys that make something happen in space. They’re the best in space, right?” (A, 47:07)
• “What’s our greatest strength can be our fatal flaw too.” (A, 54:38) – On Claiborne’s aggression
• “Let’s have a real conversation…If I’m sitting in that seat, I’m honest, I’m thinking long and hard about Maui Noah there.” (A, 35:29)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------|------------| | Giants/Chiefs as Pivot | 00:06–04:00, 19:01–27:00 | | Jordyn Tyson Deep Dive | 02:05–14:48 | | First Round Pressure Points | 17:54–32:00 | | Offensive Line Debate | 23:04–35:29 | | All Satellite Team | 45:34–54:23 | | Claiborne Character Talk | 53:11–54:38 | | Mailbag (Trade-ups, Safe picks) | 55:50–64:39 |

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Summary & Insights

This episode encapsulates the chaos and nuance of draft season: prevailing narratives get upended, and team-specific preferences and risk tolerance will lead to some true “pivot points” on draft night. Notably, the fit between prospect traits (like those of Jordyn Tyson or Zachariah Branch) and team schemes is discussed more than just “best player available.” Expect volatility, sharp positional runs—especially at offensive tackle—and a handful of surprise names rising or falling late in the first. As ever, McShay and Muench blend deep schematic knowledge, tape-driven scouting, and the latest reporting buzz to prepare listeners for the NFL draft’s annual drama.

Transcript

[A]

You know, the more I look at this thing, the more I think the Giants at five and the Chiefs at nine hold the keys to the entire first round of this draft. Plus we got to get to the all satellite team. My favorite piece of the year, guys. They create in space. And finally, the mailbag is back. Questions, we got answers. Fired up to get to it. And we got less than two weeks until the NFL draft. That's right. Thirteen days meant you good.

[B]

I'm excited, man.

[A]

Roll my favorite beat, Tuck. Fielding a lot of calls. Feeling like just deep diving into this, this first round here.

[B]

And it's, it's.

[A]

There's some pressure points. There's no question about it. There are absolute some pressure points in this draft.

[B]

Yeah, I know we got a lot to get to. Just something I got on my mind that I think we should get to right away.

[A]

You're listening to the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. And soon we'll all be listening to all the names called in this year's NFL Draft. But with FanDuel, you don't have to just listen because FanDuel has all kinds of bets on where players will land. You know, I love this stuff. Not only can you bet on who will be drafted first overall, but you can also bet on whether a player will go in the top five, top ten, and so much more. So if you don't already have it, be sure to download the FanDuel sportsbook app today. Must be 21 and older in select states. 18 plus in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler. Call Call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut.

[B]

Lot of chatter about Arizona State wide receiver Jordan Tyson. And I wanted to get your take on what's going on, man.

[A]

Yeah, fair point. There's. There has been a lot of chatter. You know what's frustrating, frustrating part for me is I, I feel like there's been a lot of incomplete conversations. Okay. Okay. I think I hear people kind of insinuate. I hear people give some parts of the information. I think people give inaccurate accounts. Yeah, sure. Let's do. There's talk about. Okay, Jordan Tyson as a player fits the bill. He's got the height, over 6 foot 2, phenomenal route runner, great hands develop. You know, from last year to this year, 2024 to 2025, I should say his, his ball skills and reliability increased significantly. There you see our. Go see all of our scouting reports. We're about to drop on Monday. Top 150 scouting reports and a top 200 board. Men, I'm fired up about that. But there you see like over 200 pounds, over 6 foot 2 catches the ball. Excellent route runner, worked with Hines Ward. But let, let's give context when we have these conversations. Man. There's been questions, yes. About his toughness and I'll get to that in a minute. And there's obvious concerns about the durability. But I feel like we just kind of gloss over some things and we thought of some insinuations and so let's look at the durability. Go back to 2022 at Colorado, right? He starts his career at Colorado. He's played four years in college football. Jordan Tyson has missed one out of every three games.

[C]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so in 2022 he played most the season, but then, then he had that acl, mcl, pcl tear to his knee, right? Some people are just saying acl. No, it was, it was a bad injury, right? He transfers to Arizona State after that freshman season and he, and he returned. He played just three games in that season in 2023 at Arizona State. So 2024 becomes his big breakout year. And he was awesome, right? It was, it was him and Scatter Boo and all, they made the run. And Sam Levitt as a freshman, they made the run to the College Football Playoff. Unfortunately, again, injury bug hits, right? He breaks, breaks his collarbone. So now we got the acl, mcl, pcl tear, tear. And he misses. He misses the all but three games in 2023, 2024, has an awesome year, but breaks his collarbone before the cfp. And then this year he has a hamstring injury that he sits out the final two or three games, right? So again, I. One out of every three games he has missed during a four year career. If you count it all up. Now, these are not injuries that are toughness injuries. You can say though, the hamstring was he.

[B]

That's the one you could argue. But the other two, you cannot.

[A]

And it may be a business decision and a disappointing year getting ready for the. The NFL. Right, Right. But we're talking an acl, pcl, MCL tear and a collarbone break. Like get out of here now.

[B]

Yeah, that's different.

[A]

Here. Here's the question I ask with a lot of this stuff. When it comes to quote, unquote toughness, what did I see on tape? Right. Here's what I saw, and I've alluded to this before, and I made the comp of Steph Stefan Diggs back in December when we were talking about him. December, maybe January. And I did. Because if you watch Stefan Diggs, Stefan Diggs makes some tough catches and he'll take a pounding and hold on the ball at times. Right. But if you also really study Stefan Diggs, it's unbelievable quickness in not a break, separation, really good hands, all those things. But if you watch him after the catch, sometimes it's kind of pluck. Get a yard or two, get down or sideline. I told you this back in. Let's call it January. That's what I saw in Jordan Tyson. And you think, well, he's 6 foot 2 plus he's over 200 pounds. And we're comparing him to smaller guys like Makai Lemon, brutally tough, like hammer, nail tough, Omar Cooper Jr. In that same range. Right. First round, kind of, let's call it nine to nine to pick 20. Right. And so if you're looking for separators, and especially Steve, especially if you're looking for a separator or. Or a non starter for teams like The Rams at 13, their guys got. They got to be Puka, they got to be Devonte. They got to block their asses off. They got to run after the catch with physicality. They got to break that first tackle and then they get to go. The Dolphins. Slowik is there. He's, you know, Shanahan, Shanahan system. All they're looking for big, bigger physical guys who like win with physicality, all that. He's not that. Okay. He's not that. Now then you have scouts come out and I've talked to people in the league, obviously, and yeah, they don't like how he body catches some stuff when he could run, run through the catch. Like physicality through the catch. They. They don't like what I saw on tape and I've been telling people about for three months now, that's out of bounds, there's a sideline next play. But like, you put them in the chief system, you put them in the Eagle system, you put them in submit systems where, like spreading things out, you Put them in some. It doesn't matter as much. It's not. That's not what they're asking for. So here we are getting close to the draft and there's overemphasizing for some prospects and what. On what the scouts, an anonymous scout said and all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah, the timing is interesting, right? I mean, the timing is.

[A]

It is, but it's also true. It is, but it's true. And I also.

[B]

You don't like him as a blocker. I thought you liked him as a blocker. Am I wrong about that?

[A]

Yeah, he.

[B]

He was.

[A]

He was fine. He did his job. He did his job. But. But yeah, it's. Honestly, it's the after catch stuff. The after catch and the body catching on the. In the quick game. Those are the two things that stood out. So I. I get it. But it's. But. But also. So it makes him one of the most polarizing players. And then you've got like, from Bob McGinn to Jeremy Fowler to. I don't. I haven't read the Brugler stuff. He sometimes has scout quotes. I. And so now all of a sudden, here we are in the process and the media is clamoring and you got Schefter and you've got. And you've got. Who am I? Brier. Brier. Obviously, I don't think Brier said. No. Brier. Brer referenced it on. On our show Wednesday. You got a lot of people coming over.

[B]

All these insiders. Yes.

[A]

All the insiders who are at the owners meetings and who are gathering information. And they're on the phone and so they're hearing this stuff. And so now it's like, it's going. It's like it's a wildfire fire.

[B]

Right?

[A]

It's. So it makes sense that he is one of the most polarizing players. Schrager. That's what I was thinking. I. I love Peter. Peter and I are good. I just had a brain squeeze, but I saw Peter had him going nine overall to the Chiefs. A lot of people I talked to are like, yeah, mid, mid first round range, third best receiver, healthy, all that stuff. Maybe he's second best. You think he's the best receiver in the class. But you recognize Colonel Tate?

[B]

He's right there with Tate. I think the. Tate's kind of. He's closed the gap for me, but.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[B]

He's right there for me, but.

[A]

So the talent tells you he belongs up in that upper echelon in this year's wide receiver class. But then there's some people, I swear to God, Mitch, I swear to you, who are like, yeah, I wouldn't touch him before, like, late first. And I'm cool if, like, I don't. So that's. That you asked.

[B]

To me, that's got to be a durability thing, though, with not. And I get that. I understand that. I have no, I have no beef with that. If you're looking at him and saying the injury history is too concerning for us. I, I don't. Like, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe this is just me being, again, an older guy, but I don't think Heinz Ward lets a kid on like that on the field if he thinks the kid's soft, if he thinks the kid.

[A]

Like, people in the league are perplexed by that.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I. I thought the same. Well, he's gonna let him on the field because he's. He's. He's good. Damn good. But I. Here's what I do think, and here's. Let's start with what I know. What I know is, as a scout, any good organization, and it's the vast majority, honestly, at this point, it's pretty close to all organizations. There is a. You're. You're evaluating for your team. And so what is gold to some people is bronze to other others. Right. And so for a team that's looking to spread things out and is not all that worried about physicality, which we know there are plenty of in the league, they'd like to have it, but it's not a non starter. Right. This guy's going to be higher on their board. So as a, As a. As a general manager working in conjunction with the head coach and the offensive scheme, we're looking for certain things. Now, the Rams passed on Puka Nukua four times like the rest of the league and got him in the fifth.

[B]

I would love that.

[A]

But we still have the video of, of McVeigh sitting in the room with, with our guy Les Snead, and like, this guy's gonna fit what we're gonna do. And he like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So to be honest with you, yeah. It's almost surprising they didn't take him earlier because it's so much of what they want. So a scout who is an anonymous source working for one of those teams that's looking for physicality for a Shanahan, McVeigh Koch, lesser extent with him, quite honestly, but Slowik now in Miami. So, yeah, those.

[B]

Not for us.

[A]

I'm a scout in that system. I'M like, yeah, he doesn't fit. But they're going to come out and the quote's going to be, he's not tough. He's not tough. Like a question is toughness. So I'm not banging him. I'm not killing him. But I also want to recognize that's what it is. So. And I thought there's been a lot of tap dancing, so I'm glad you asked the question. But that's what it is. He doesn't fit. For some people, you'd love him to be a little bit tougher. We've been telling you this about him since about January and. And teams have to make a decision. And so you see Schrager say he could go at number nine, and then you hear other reports like, I wouldn't touch him till the 20s. And that's why we are where we are.

[B]

Yeah, some pretty good wide receivers have gone in the 20s, too, by the way.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, I get it. I understand. I just think that, you know. Yeah, there's also a long list.

[A]

If you really study it, there's a long list of guys who have. Who have gone in the 20s at wide receiver and actually have failed. Sure. It's a higher percentage than you would think. In fact, there's a lot of, like, second rounders. You could argue 20. I don't know. I'd have to do a study. But 20 to 32 is kind of like there's a reason they got there second rounders for some reason.

[B]

Well, it feels like Green Bay had a big role in that. Green Bay would just take a guy,

[A]

Pittsburgh for a while.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But certain teams knew what they were doing with those guys.

[A]

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Does that answer your question?

[B]

I think it does. I mean, I know you got a lot to get to, but, you know, I wanted to jump you and see what you thought on that one, because

[A]

I'm glad you did.

[B]

There's a lot of buzz about it and it's. It's that time of year. Right. We're gonna hear all these things. I do think you make a good point and tell me if I'm wrong. I just want to clear it up a little bit. That stuff that's coming out now necessarily isn't stuff that, know, people are just popping. Just people are learning stuff now. I think that a lot of these insiders are now. Right.

[A]

They're.

[B]

This is actually stuff that they are learning now. So it's not necessarily.

[A]

This isn't news to anyone in the league. Like, in fact, most teams are they're, they're, they're, they've come out of all those meetings long since been out of these kind of meetings, and now they're in like the fine tuning meetings. I always talk about air traffic control. I'm a son of two Delta employees, right? I lived, I lived 8 miles, 10 miles from the airport and lived in Boston for 20 years watching planes get, get flown in. For some reason, it's the mentality, early on, you send all the planes in the air. We got about 1400 planes for us, at least, and it narrows down. And all of a sudden now we're trying to like, figure out the schedule, but now we're like, okay, you're landing here, you're landing there, you're landing there. If you watch, if you've ever sat at an airport at night, near an airport, and you see like nine planes and all of a sudden one comes out of nowhere and it's like, they're like air traffic control is like lining them up and it's pretty wild to watch. That's where we are in these meetings. And like, I'm talking to three different GMs over the weekend. They, they don't want to talk during the week. They're busy. They're going through all these things. And then next weekend is the big one. Before we get on the plane to LA and we have our, my favorite show of the year. The, like, what we're hearing show Sunday night from LA in the studio. Brand new studios this year, by the way.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So the next two weekends I'm going to be getting more and more talk, you know, just conversations about where these guys are. Right, but. And there's a week in between with meetings. So. But yeah, this, this is old news to NFL teams, but it's new news to the media. But we try, we touched on it. Like, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't feel like we failed our audience. But, but that's, he is one of the more polarizing players in the league. And there's also some other guys that we've talked about, the outliers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I guess we can transition. Here's where I am with the, with the draft bench. And I know you've been grinding tape and we wisely gave you Wednesday to, to dig in so that Bre and I, Bre and I were able to hold down the fort without you, without your brother. But I know, I don't know about that. We got a late jump because of the site and everything else this year. And that's awesome. But. But you've been grinding away on it. So to catch you up to speed, I'm kind of at the point right now where I'm locked in on the first two picks, obviously. Fernando Mendoza to the Raiders, David Bailey number two to the Jets. I feel good about, but I'm not like stamp it. It's not like Sharpie yet with Arvell Reese at three to the Cardinals. Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's a voice in there that wants Jeremiah Love. They've had a lot of problems with, with conversion players Arizona has or players

[B]

with a versatility tweeters or hybrids. Right?

[A]

Yeah, hybrid is the best word. Yeah, I. Starting with like Isaiah Simpson. Yep. Simmons. Sorry. Clemens, Clemson. Jeez, I can't talk. Isaiah Simmons, the number eight overall pick to Arizona out of Clemson. And, and so yeah, they've had like three guys I think in the last, I don't know, eight years or something like that that have not worked out as first round picks. Dan Buchanan was one of them. I'm forgetting the second one. Anyway, my point is I'm not, I'm 80, 85% on that and it's most likely, but maybe it's Arizona trading out. My point is let's assume it goes Mendoza, Bailey, Arvell Reese, Jeremiah Love to Tennessee at 4.

[B]

Is that what you feel strongly about? Love to Tennessee at this point?

[A]

I'm not saying it's a lock and if Arville doesn't go three, I think that that could change things. But I don't hate it. But yeah, I don't hate it either. I actually, I like it a lot. Five is a wild card, man. Here's why. Hit me on one side, Steve. You've got John Harbaugh coming in first draft. Let's set a tone on what we're going to be, right. Physical like what we were in Baltimore. Physical, great in the trenches, defensive front seven. But you also with Harbaugh, you've. You've got a defense under Harbaugh. Now he wasn't the defensive coordinator, but they had McDonald and Minter and those guys that, that believed deeply in the value of that safety. Right. Okay. Then you have the concept that you go back to the Ravens and the rich tradition in history with Ray Lewis and Roquan Smith and of those off ball linebackers and their impact on the defense. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then you think to yourself, man, they like they got, they took care, especially early on, like they took care of that offensive line. It was a priority. They would draft a center, center Linderbaum in the first round, they would draft a guard or like yonder, they would, you know, I mean, like, yeah, they believe in, in being a bully and not just some more from the, from the AFC north, the NFC East. Like, we got to be bullies in December, January.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you got all that. And then I'm looking at it, I'm thinking to myself, if I know, go

[B]

ahead and your stud defensive tackle wants a trade and I know the value's not there, but like, you better start figuring that out too, man, because you needed one coming in anyways. Now you might need two. So right, there's that, that little wrinkle.

[A]

But that's, that's going to have to be a round two problem. And, and, and honestly, I'm trading either a first or two, two second, like a second this year, second next year, something like that if, if that winds up happening. So that, that to me isn't part of the problem of the, the challenge at number five. But I hear you. Oh, and by the way, we got a young quarterback and, and neighbors is coming back. But like, we don't love our receiver core after Malik we saw so bunch of names.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So what I'm doing now is I'm setting up this board and Harbaugh has always had a big play in it, but the understanding is that, like he's going to make this call. Right. Joe Shane is going to, they're going to work lockstep. But it ultimately, and I'm looking at this and I'm like, okay, top of the bar board. Jeremiah Love, Arvel, Reese, Mendoza and Bailey are for the top five players just on our board.

[B]

Yeah. And they're gone.

[A]

And they're gone. So now I've got to stack this thing if I'm just taking best player available. And it so works out that the next three guys on our board at least are Sunny Styles linebacker from, from Ohio State, Caleb Downs, which I recognize he's probably not going before pick ten. Okay. Yeah, but, but I, but we just talked to Brier and Brier's like, don't rule out Downs at 5.

[B]

I, I, that I definitely. My radar picked up on that man. Right? Yeah, he made a couple interesting points. That was one of them.

[A]

But as I said to him too, he's an Ohio State guy number. And then the third player on our board, by the way, not lost on me as I'm talking to Brer. All three of these guys are Ohio State guys. So pick which one you love the most.

[B]

You're going to get at it.

[A]

Yeah. Carnell Tate, wide receiver from Ohio State. And you go down to 11 on my. My board right now. I don't know quite how high. And we're going to consolidate as we go as we put out our final board the week of the draft. Francis Maui Noah. So why do I say the Giants hold the key and Schrager comes out and says Maui Noah? I think I'm hearing Maui Noah could be the picket five, and a lot of other people are now saying Maui Noah could be at five.

[B]

That surprises me.

[A]

But part of that was. Part of that was Steve. For a while, everyone was assuming number it was going to go Reese to Maui Noah, three to Arizona. So now he's available. I think the vast majority of people, not everyone would agree that Maui know is the best offensive lineman in this class or will be the first offensive lineman taken. That's a lot to unpack.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm sitting here now and I'm thinking to myself, sonny Styles is number two on my board. But my board doesn't matter at all with what the Giants are going to do. And I like when I separate church from State, when I go to sit down to do a mock draft. I love that fit. The Giants want that guy. I love downs fit. Giants want that guy. We know about the. The defensive history with that. I love getting Carnell Tate there, another receiver for your young quarterback. And I love. Even though you just signed. Illuminary. Illuminor. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. That's why it doesn't make sense to me.

[A]

Go ahead. Yeah, but he can kick the guard. Or. Or Maui Noah could kick the guard. And now we're building the fucking wall, man. Now we're like that. The Giants are here. We're the NFC East Ravens from, like the late. From the early 2000s. Like we're. You're going to stomp your teeth in, right?

[B]

Yeah. Or.

[A]

Or most recently with Derrick Henry. And we're going to. So. But here's why it's important to me, beyond the obvious of who are they going to take? What. What's Harbaugh's first pick going to be? Here's why it's important to me. This run on tackles is going to. We just talked about, like a brush fire. This run on tackles is going to happen fast. And why The Chiefs at 9 and the Giants at 5 are so intriguing to me is when does it start?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if it starts at 5 and if the chief take Fano, which some people think they could, at nine, although Brear thinks it's Kenyan Sadiq Schrager thinks it's. It's Jordan Tyson and this, this time of year. I know Brett Veach. I worked with the Chiefs. I got paychecks from the chief. Like I, he, like, you don't know. If you think you know, you probably don't know right now. Okay, so they're an absolute wild card.

[B]

I love the Sadiq pick, but go ahead.

[A]

I do too. But I get the Tyson pick, but not if Tate. Tate's on the board as Schrager had. So why do they hold the key? Because all of a sudden if, if it goes styles 5 now Cleveland could be the offensive tackle team as well. They could, they could go Carnell Tate at 6. But even if Mawanoa goes to Cleveland and they reshuffle things there, which I've heard that they might, they could possibly do, and. But if it goes past catcher at nine, now all of a sudden we're sitting with a board with six offensive tackles at pick 11, and guess what? He's not going 11 to Miami. None of the tackles are going 11 to Miami, not going to Dallas. There's going to be cornerbacks and Caleb Downs. I think it's, you know, if, if a cornerback is still available. Bengals take one, Dolphins take one, Cowboys take one. None of those three teams are going offense.

[B]

The Saints could take one, maybe.

[A]

I think the Saints are taking either edge Ruben Bane or cornerback Mansour Delaine. And I know people are saying McCoy. Now, I want you to understand that defensive scheme was Staley. Brandon Staley is like the number one. If you were to put him on the board and talk me through your defense. There's two things in his defense that he didn't have necessarily the personnel for that he's seeking. One is fast. They can be underside, but fast edge rushers. He had that in San Diego. He had. So that's part of it. And they don't have those guys now. Reuben Bain's not necessarily that guy. That's why I, that's why I hesitate there. The other thing is I want a corner whose IQ match cover match match. Receivers can play. Man can play his own. I told you after two. Two games watching Delane one game, I forget it was Clemson or the next game he was almost exclusively in man. The next game he's almost exclusively in zone. And he's awesome at both.

[B]

Yeah, we both think the best trait about him was his brain. Like the first thing we said to each other. I don't know the last time we talked about a corner like that. We're like, we both love this guy. Like, what do you think is the best thing about him? It's his brain. I mean, he's the smartest dude on the field.

[A]

So, so you, so anyway, so it could go corner there or edge there. Then you get to if, if the Chiefs go, if the Chiefs, Chiefs go with a wide receiver or a tight end. And the Bengals aren't taking offensive line, the Dolphins aren't, the Cowboys aren't and the Rams aren't. So now we get down to the Ravens and we could have six offensive tackles plus Vega, you want a, from, from Penn State, the top offensive guard still on the board. But I don't think it's going to happen. So my question to you is, I know what you would do. No, I actually don't. What would you do with the Giants at 5 if you were the GM and you had control of this over Harba Man?

[B]

It is, I, I, I'm like, this is the classic sports radio response and I'm just going to get it out of the way. I would definitely entertain trading back because I think you have a lot of picks. Let's not play that game though. Let's, let's say, like we're going to have to stick a pick here. You know what I mean? I'm, I'm like that sports hub caller. I was like, look, straight out of

[A]

the pick, the Giants, to your point, the giants only have seven picks in this draft. They pick at five, they pick at 37. They don't have a third round pick. But, but go on.

[B]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna curveball you right out of the gate. If I am going offensive line, I am taking Vega, Iona Iowane from Penn State over Maui Noah. I think Maui Noah is going to play tackle, but I just, because I, because I would make that pick.

[A]

I mean, you're not getting fired. But what if it turns out in camp that Illuminar.

[B]

Let me just finish, let me finish my point.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't, I, I understand what you're saying in terms of value and I should have led with that. I understand not taking that player at that early. So I should, I should lead with that. But this is my point of why I'm not taking Maui Noah there. Because you're taking, you're taking a guard. If you're taking him there, you're taking a guard. You expect him to play next to Illuminar. And I, I, I mean, that's my belief. I think Illumina had a really good season last year and the in the fact that they resigned them. They expect him to play tackle. So if you're going to get a guard, it's not there. Right. And I like Iowana is the best guard. I think Maui know he's going to play tackle. I think he's going to be a damn good right tackle in the league. So I'm taking that off the board. That's why I don't think offensive line makes sense to me. Sonny Styles, I mean I get it with the Harbaugh fit and it's super tempting because the value and he's a unique player. But I can't believe I'm going to say this. I think I would go wide receiver. Even though I believe that you build in the trenches and you start inside out and all of that stuff. I think you would go.

[A]

You're the one banging on me for putting a receiver in the top five. Like I don't even I understand. I let you off one day of one, one day principles.

[B]

I would love, I would. They're not going to take an edge. You know, I like what who it's kind of a, this is why it's a fascinating pressure point in the draft. This is, this is what we're going through. You could consider an edge here, but they're not going to do that. They're not going to take one.

[A]

You could consider Monsoon delane or, or McCoy here to be quite.

[B]

I do I. That' is a very interesting thing to bring up because I think one of the corners and it feels like based on what Bert was saying the other day, it feels like they're picking up steam man. And they should be. So that's an interesting.

[A]

I would argue they're like their, their needs are at honestly interior defensive line, wide receiver, corner, then linebacker, then offensive tackle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though I, I, I, I've put them differently on our, our needs sheet because, because quite honestly I think they're going to go in a different direction and it's about draft needs. But if you're just looking at this from a interior defensive line which we're going to deal in the second round. Deal with in the second round and it's, it's wide receiver and cornerback. So in some order like that, then it's linebacker, safety, offensive tackle. Those are the six needs that I would look at. You know, I understand.

[B]

I don't think, I know, I don't

[A]

know that John views it the same way.

[B]

I think guards a need. I don't think offensive tackle is a need for them. That's why that's why that, that pick doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sonny Styles value. Yes. Caleb Downs. No, it's too early. It's just too early for a safety that, you know, we're looking at the safety set in Baltimore and I understand that, but. And, and they love talented state safeties. I mean they had Kyle Hampton and Malachi Starks. I get all of that. I just think it's too early for a guy like Caleb Downs. And really you convinced me early on who doesn't have that elite physical trait. So we got, we, we got a knockout safety. Are you going to take an off ball linebacker who's just this absolute stud? You would.

[A]

But, but, but that's not shared. There are some people in the league that don't like, they recognize the physicality improve from 24 to 25. But if you're gonna take that guy, he better be an absolute ass kicker. And he's not there yet. And you know, like, so I get it.

[B]

I, yeah, I, I don't, I don't hate that pick. This is. Again, there. I don't hate that pick. You're asking me what I would do and I think it's a really tough spot. And I would probably take Carnell Tate, the wide receiver from Ohio State because you have, you do have a young quarterback. I think the league neighbors now. You have two legitimate receivers on the outside. I look at the receiving core.

[A]

It's not what I would do, but I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I really.

[B]

You're taking Styles, I'm taking Tate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Neither one of us taking the offensive lineman.

[A]

No, but I, but I, no, but I also was not John Harbaugh. No. I just want to like. Let's have a real conversation. I wasn't John Harbaugh, who, Who parted ways with Baltimore, had a little bit of time, evaluated all the opening jobs, looked at it, studied the tape, I'm sure incessantly saw things he liked and things he didn't like. And maybe he looked at that tape and said, you know what? Yeah, it looks like we've got our starting five offensive linemen. It's not to my standard. And so if that's the deal and no one else, maybe two or three other people in the world know definitively that that. And those people who are close enough to John are certainly not going to breach that trust and talk to Shrigs or Shefty or Brear, you know, they, that, that could be. They could easily go that direction.

[B]

Yeah, well, let's let's play the game. Would you rather have Carnell Tate and possibly an Emmanuel pregnant or a Keylon Rutledge at offensive guard in the second round? I know they need a defensive tackle. Just scare me out. Or would you rather take Maui Noah and possibly play him at. At guard? And then you're getting a. What, what are you looking at? A receiver in the. In the second round? Maybe a Denzel Boston, maybe a Casey Concepion. Which one would you rather have?

[A]

Honestly,

[B]

I feel like you're just. You're going to needle me on this one. Go ahead.

[A]

No, no. My point is this. My quarterback is going to get banged up because the way he plays, right. My running back is going to get banged up. And I. Like, I. I'm scared to death about Scatter Booth. I'm just being honest. If we're having a real conversation, you and me, that's fair. Now, if John called me and was like, hey, what do you think? I'd be like, I'm scared to death. That Scattergoop. Scatter Boo is going to be able to stay healthy. I draft another one in the fifth this year because Tyrone Tracy isn't enough. Right. Jackson has got to learn to protect himself from himself. And I don't know that that happens overnight, but let's certainly not allow unnecessary hits on him that he's going to. He's going to create enough hits on his own. We got to be able to protect this guy, like, really protective and. And part of protecting him is we better line up and we better run the fucking ball down people's throats. That's my mentality. So what I haven't done is sat here and studied every, like, coach copy tape on the Giants. I know their personnel. We evaluated all of them coming out. I've watched enough of the Giants. I've got all of the reports I need. But I also, if I'm sitting in that seat, I'm. I'm honest. I'm thinking long and hard about Maui Noah there because the. The only way we take this to another level is if Jackson darts the

[B]

guy

[A]

and if I can't protect him and keep him healthy and on the field and part of that is running the football with great success, then what are we doing? Then we're going to be right back in that quarterback mix next year. Or maybe it's too late in 2028. So, well. Well, the draft guy in me is looking at my value board and saying, I'm taking Sonny Stiles. If I'm not Convinced. In my conversations with John. Talk to me about where you are with the offensive line. Get the offensive line coach on right now. Are we convinced? And if we are, if we feel really good about it, then. Then I'm taking Sonny Styles. Okay. But I also, like, I'm not mad if we wind up taking. I'm not mad if we take Carnell Tate. I'm not even that bad if we're taking Caleb Downs, but he would actually be fourth on my list.

[B]

I agree. I'm with you. I have Tate over Styles, but I don't mind if they take Styles. I think Downs is the fourth on the list.

[A]

So now we get to Kansas City at 9.

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

And it's not going to be Maui Noah. If anything I've heard it's Fano if they take an offensive tackle, which I don't think would be the worst idea in the world because you got a quarterback coming off of acl and like, is it ACL or Achilles? What's wrong with me today? It's Friday and I've had my face buried too much.

[B]

I thought it was acl.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, it's acl. And so we got to protect Patrick and we got to make sure that we're good with the offensive line again. But if we're. If we're comfortable with it and who knows better than Andy Reid and Andy Reid and Brett Veech make their lockstep. This is a true. We don't draft this high. Andy. We don't draft this high. I know you love offensive linemen. I know you love trench guys. I know that's your roots. We don't draft this. We don't. We. We've been picking 32, 31, 29, 28.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And we. And we get another one in 30. Let's get a Carnell Tate. Apparently, they. It might be Jordan Tyson. According to Schrager, it could be Jordan Tyson. Over, over, over. Tate triggers as anyone in the.

[B]

Did Trager have Tate going after Schrager

[A]

had Colonel Tate going to Miami at 11?

[B]

No way, dude. That's a bigger story.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

I assume Tate was off the board.

[A]

I honestly thought that's why you started with the Jordan Tyson thing, because all this negative news is coming simultaneously. All I missed that about about Jordan Tyson. I know you've been buried in tape trying to finish up our top 150 evaluations, as you should be. But all this information is coming out about Tyson's not tough. He's body catching over the traffic, tiptoeing, out of bounds, injuries, all that stuff. But simultaneously, Schrager comes racing in off the top.

[B]

He's like, oh, yeah.

[A]

And it's like, oh, yeah.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And he makes a good point that Kansas City, they will zag every time you go to Zig.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And so that's why this whole Tyson thing's been fascinating. Because what is bronze to the Rams and to the Niners and to Miami and to some other organizations that are in that offensive scheme is gold to the Chiefs. And so whether I like that, so whether it's it's Tyson or it's Tate, who I don't think gets there. I told you, I think styles and take go really high. But now I'm studying it like, maybe it's not top five. Maybe. And it's certainly not top five. Maybe it's. Maybe it's top six. Could easily be top six of an offensive tackle. And here's the other thing. I'm just bouncing. It's a Friday. Who cares?

[B]

You just. How.

[A]

How high are we on these offensive tackles? Truly. Because Maui Noah is really good, but he's a right tackle, maybe a guard.

[B]

I think he's the right tackle, but he might be a guard.

[A]

I do too. I do too. It's not Joe Alt. It's not. But then again, like we saw guys where the jets took. Seven last year.

[B]

I think it was a little later than that. I think it was like 10 or 11. Is that wrong?

[A]

Banks went.

[B]

Banks. Banks went. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

It was seven. I think it was seven.

[A]

I think it was 7.

[B]

Yep, you're right.

[A]

So. So there's that. And Campbell went four. And Campbell has short arms. Yeah, don't bring that up.

[B]

I am in a.

[A]

Unless the general manager sitting in the room and mental lead with it.

[B]

I just want to get his take. And he was awesome.

[A]

If you haven't watched, he was. Go back. Go back on Netflix. Go back on Netflix or Spotify and go back to that. Or Apple. And we appreciate everyone watching and listening. Go back and watch that episode and mention I are fret. We got in late the night before. Mention especially late because the weather coming into the combine and we didn't have a chance to talk and talk about. We don't really. We don't do like a pre show meeting where we're going to break down. I'll ask this question. You ask that. But generally we'll try to. And Mensch just comes haymakering in. Haymakering in the first question off the board we get the Patriots general manager sitting right there, son of Ron Wolf. I'm talking about watching tape in Green Bay Lambeau field when he's 10 years old.

[B]

Royalty.

[A]

Royalty. And you're like, Campbell's got short arms. I knew in the priest. I knew. I knew it pre draft and I

[B]

saw it was actually worse. I think the first thing I said to him was I thought that was too early to take Will Campbell. And then we got into it.

[A]

If you, if you. First of all, the. And. And Elliott Wolf was awesome and honored. First time I've actually sat down and had real conversation with him. And like so much, he could have really related. Highly intelligent and he. And he could have. It just was a really easy conversation with someone who just very clearly has been around this game his whole entire life. But if you're looking for the laughs, go. Go watch the first like 10 minutes of the interview we had from the combine. Anyway, I don't. So my point is on this, where are we on these offensive tackles? Because I know that I know. Let's look at me in the eyes right now, Steve. Look at me.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I promise you there isn't a single person in the NFL who is giving a true grade who says that Maui Noah's grade, regardless of position or what we need, is higher than that of Jeremiah Love. No Bailey, Rhys Styles, probably even Downs, but I get it with the safety stuff and probably Carnell Tate, but certainly those, those four guys. And I've got him at 11. And honestly, how can you look at those two corners and say he's definitively better? But the offensive tackles, just like quarterbacks, get bumped up every year because the shelf falls off like Niagara Falls. Picture Niagara Falls. Men's drove us through Niagara Falls one year. I fell asleep in America. I fell asleep in America driving from training camps circa 2002. I've taken NAP for the first time on like 20 days on the road trip, going to training camps. I fall asleep in America. Give mensch the keys to the wheel.

[B]

We.

[A]

We wind up in Canada, but that's another story for another day that we would be repeating anyway. But Niagara Falls after, after Max Iheanacho from Arizona State, if he's your seventh offensive tackle on the board, it is a massive drop off. And we're talking about guys that we project as backups, like developmental, all that stuff. So they're going to get bumped up. So if you don't get one in the first, you ain't getting one. So now that begs the question of, do we just take One here. If we're the Giants and we pick again and we don't pick again, we pick again one more time at 37, as I said. And if we're six Cleveland, we pick again at 24. But what happened? What happens if that run starts? What happens if that runs? That's why I say the Giants hold the keys to a certain degree. If Maui Noah goes five and I'm like, Tate Fano. Fano, Tate, Tate, Andrew Barry, the gm. I'm like, that run started early. If we don't get, I don't know that Lomu or Ian not sure or I don't know if they're going to even be there at 24.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you're dead, you're dead on with this whole situation. I mean, there is, that's the fascinating

[A]

part, a lot of stuff up there.

[B]

And I will say that's where the Giant situation with the defensive tackle does come into play, though. If they think they need to get one in the second round now, they got, they, they can't mess around with that first pick because now you want a receiver now you might not be getting one until your third pick. It's just, there's a lot going on there with like, how much pressure is on that first pick, as there is always. But still, like, it's a, it's a tough situation to be in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they love, I think they would love that if a Mason Graham was there or a stud defensive tackle, this would be, just pencil it in. You'd be, you know, put it in pen. You'd be ready to go.

[A]

Yeah, we would have the first five picks. Feeling pretty good about them. All right, let's move on. It's just, it's been driving me crazy and I want to share it and I don't know, I had fun doing it. All satellite teams out?

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

The website right now is loaded for bear. It's the ringer.com McShay. It's the McShay NFL Draft room. And it's powered by mention Menches been grinding away as he always does. And we got 150 valuations coming up on Monday. But don't forget this, our newsletter. My baby, as I call it. It is, it's, it's where we get the premium stuff. And starting next week, we're going to have a second round mock draft. We're going to do three round mock draft mensch that we're going to include in the newsletter every day. Two divisions a day starting next end of next week. For all the team needs. And we're going to give you, like, what could it look like with your exact picks?

[B]

Who are the gu.

[A]

And talk to you a little bit about the needs. That's all going to be in the newsletter. It's the McShay Report. Google it, please. The McShay Report. Subscribe out now. Is the All Satellite Team. I started this puppy so long ago, man.

[B]

Babies, puppies. What's going on right now?

[A]

I have. Whatever. It's a Friday.

[B]

No, I am.

[A]

It's. It's like after dark. McShay after dark. I lose. It started with CJ Spiller in 2010. We've had some big names like Odell Beckham Jr. Tyler Lockett, Christian McCaffrey, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Waddle, Jameer Gibbs.

[B]

Man, you love Gibbs.

[A]

I go through like seven. Oh, I love Gibbs.

[B]

You love.

[A]

I go through like seven guys that are on this year's All Satellite team. But there's always a winner. And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell. Talk you through the winner. You talk me through one other guy you like on. On the. In the list, on the team or not on the team. These are guys. All Satellite team is guys that make something happen in space. They're the best in space, right? I don't want to give too much away, but if you want to get the whole thing, it's a fun breakdown every year. And by the way, a lot of these guys go on to outplay their draft stock because of this single ability. Zachariah Branch. Zach Branch, man, I don't care that he's five, eight, nothing. I don't care that he's 177 and nothing. I don't care. Got nothing north of 30 Inch Arms, and I don't care he's got nothing north of nine inch hands.

[B]

Calm down.

[A]

He's my favorite player to watch on tape this year. That's why I get pissed whenever he's a gimmick. Fine, I'll take that gimmick. Give me that gimmick in the third round and let's rock and roll. Here's the deal with him, right? Like, it's this blinding combination of stop, start, and then lateral, and then you got to have all those things. You got to go and then you got to go, and then you got to be able. He's got all three. And like, what was his workout? He ran a 4, 3 something. He was a 10, 3, 3, 100 meter guy. Out of high school, Bishop Gorman High School. If you study high school recruiting it's like a hotbed. Las Vegas, right, ran a 4, 3 5, which was the sixth fastest of all the wide receivers. His 10 split was tied for fourth. It's a 15 0. So he. He gets to boil in a flash and he keeps it at boil on the field. 40 career explosives on 159 catches. That means a quarter of his catches.

[B]

That's crazy. I didn't know. That's a crazy number.

[A]

Just like Jordan Tyson's gonna miss one out of every three games. One out of every four catches is going for 15 plus yards for no reason. Oh, and by the way, you want to hand him the ball. That had six missed tackles, force and four explosives on 14 career rushes. He is so blinding. He is so explosive. I. Listen, I get it. He's undersized and I get it. Like, you can. I.

[B]

They.

[A]

Hey, hey, freshman. Hey, kid. Go return a kick. 96 yards. Touchdown, USC. So I just. I love them. I'm higher on them than most. I love him.

[B]

I love them, too. I just worry about the frame. That's it. You know, I mean, we're. Yeah, but this is a different conversation.

[A]

But I know he's low, is lower.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I can't get it for him to prove people wrong in the league. I really can't. I honestly, I. I could make an argument. He's the sixth best receiver in this draft. Could make an argument. I get laughed at by a lot of people, many in the league. I could make an argument that.

[B]

Yeah, I need Tucker to come up with a montage and as if he doesn't have enough work, a montage of your favorite players to. This is my favorite player to watch in the draft and there's about 53 of them, so I think that'd be a fun video to watch.

[A]

I'm from the Kuiper Tree. Some people from the Shanahan Tree. Some people are from the. The Reed Tree. I'm from the Kuiper Tree. That's where you stand. Definitely. I tried to make sure that not many things rubbed off on me, but that definitely rubbed off on me.

[B]

But I do.

[A]

I'm sorry. I get excited about this job we do when I stop getting. Come on, retire.

[B]

Don't turn around. Who do you like?

[A]

Who do you like? Steve from this list? Or is there somebody that I.

[B]

It's from your list. I'm taking Wake Forest running back to Mon Claiborne and like he is. The tape is a roller coaster and we'll talk about that in a minute. But the speed, the Speed is fun, man. I mean, he ran the third fastest out of all the running backs. The third fastest 40.

[A]

And it's Spider chart. Look at his spider.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Vision, agility. You like his power balance. I do too. I don't know that I'd give him a five, but competitiveness, a five envision,

[B]

that's a little, we got to tweak that. But anyways, the speed is what jumps out right away.

[A]

I mean, yours is not bad. You give him like a three or four or three year envision or something.

[B]

Yeah, I can't even see. I gotta. Yeah, well, yeah, anyways, the speed jumps out, man. He is, does not mean much of crease. Whether it's in the return game, whether he's as a runner, whether it's as a receiver. After the catch. He is, he, he gets a crease, he's gone and he is. It's funny because I, I, you would talk to me about his lateral agility and I didn't see it at first. He can, he does some things side to side. They're pretty impressive as well. What I like about it is he doesn't have to go, he doesn't have to make a violent cut every time when he's attacking a safety. He'll use a jab step to get the guy off balance and then cut up the other way. So he's not wasting a lot of energy or slowing down trying to make a guy miss. But some of the stuff he does in the hole and behind the line of scrimmage is, is really impressive. Now I will say this, there's a couple things.

[A]

Okay, hold on one second before you get to the, to the buts. Yep. His, his, his four. You gotta get that seven. Was just third behind Mike Washington, who we've talked about, an absolute phenom. And Jeremiah Love. Yep. You know what I loved about him on tape is body control as a shorter back to hug the corner when because he's got the speed to get outside, sometimes those guys have to kind of patter. He's got this body control to him as an outside runner and he's just like this twitched up slasher. Right. Like. Yeah, I don't, I, I like his tape a lot. But recognize as you're about to allude to, there are some, there's some things,

[B]

it's just, it's some of it's whatever. But the first thing is you kind of, you had texted me and said, listen, there's some stuff about his character that, that as scouts have expressed that, that you Wanted to share with me, which was.

[A]

Yeah. Not non starter things. Not horrible, but just correct. Yeah.

[B]

So I'm watching the tape.

[A]

It's. It's one of the cool. On some people. He's kind of up and down. He. He's a.

[B]

May have a hard time controlling his emotions. He gets, you know, he gets so competitive. May have a hard time controlling his motions. And I'm watching the North Carolina tape and he drops a ball, picks up the ball and Gronk spikes it. I'm like, yeah, I could see that.

[A]

I don't mean to laugh, but don't you love when things on tape just like, okay, you've got it.

[B]

He might have a little bit of an emotion control problem. Yeah, I could see that. Then he's got five. He's. I think he had six fumbles. He had five fumbles as a runner, one fumble as a receiver. So he puts the ball on the ground. He is. He as a receiver makes it look easy. He catches passes outside his frame all the time. He plucks, he runs, he catches things in stride. And he had eight drops last year. It was like, what are we doing? Like, I don't know, like a lot of it was focus drops. But what. Like the drops were mind blowing to me because of how good he looked catching the ball at other times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you look at all this. But I will say this, man, that dude likes the pass block. He likes to pass block.

[A]

No, he is a hunt.

[B]

He's a £188 and he will get his ass run over. I mean, he's sometimes crazy.

[A]

Crazy is just like everything else I talk about on the show. What. What. What's our greatest strength? Can be our fatal flaw too.

[B]

Not afraid.

[A]

You got to have a screw or two loose to want to. At five foot. What was he? Five foot?

[B]

Five eleven? 188.

[A]

You're. You're hoping you're getting 188. Yeah.

[B]

You're getting a chain is what you're hoping you get. That's the absolute ceiling. And that would be great because he's one of the best in the league. But that being said, like, he will step up. He will cut the legs out from other guys. He will launch himself at people like he's looking for people to hit. Like I would. I think he's going to be blown away by the pass, bro.

[A]

I think he averaged like 25 yards per kickoff return. The pair of returns. Yeah, two touch to 223 and 24 combined. All right. We promised him some questions and we're going long. It's a Friday. But you know what? It's 13 days of the draft. So people. People understand.

[B]

I hope.

[A]

Oh, and just a reminder, I always say Google, because I did that for so long, you don't have to anymore. It's the ringer.com mcshay. And everything's there. The big board, the mock drafts, the newsletter, the show, everything. It's. It's a hub. It's a hub. All right, you have some questions. Let's get to them, men. You got them.

[B]

All right. We got rich. What do you think it would take for a team drafting in the mid, late teens to trade up for a player around 8 to 10, for example, Bain or Fano? Also, do you think Bain or Fano drop out of the top ten? Thanks. And again, love the show.

[A]

Eight to ten, that's 1400. 1350. 1300. Trade chart.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If you're just going off of that and it's obviously, it's just. It depends on what you're trading up for. It depends on a given draft and all that stuff. Mid teens is like 250. No, no. 350. Yeah, like 300. 350 mid teens. So if it's 1350 minus 300, you're looking at like 250, right? 250. 300. 250 to 300.

[B]

What's that mean?

[A]

Points.

[B]

So what's that mean in, like, real world? What's a pit.

[A]

What's real world? It's a late second, early third.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or it's a late third and like a fifth. That's the jumping off point of negotiation. And now it depends on what's available. You're coming up, or we know you're coming up for a quarterback. You know, we hold you hostage, all that stuff. Yeah. It would cost you a. You'd like to get away with that. Like a mid third and a. And a fifth or something like that. But I don't know. But let's. Let's dive deeper into this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it doesn't even matter for. Actually, you know what I think, I think. I think one of the other questions is on. On trade up, trade down. So go ahead. Moving on.

[B]

I'll say really quickly. I do think Fano can fall out of the top 10. Bane. We'll see. I don't think he should. Fano makes more sense to me of a guy who could fall out of the top 10.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's unthinkable.

[A]

Yes, but he could all. But I could. But there's two spots where it, where it's also pretty.

[B]

We just talk about Kansas City. Yeah.

[A]

And Cleveland at six. So that could start at five with, with the Giants and go to Fano at nine.

[B]

Right. It's a brush fire when it kicks

[A]

off five and six and now all of a sudden we're like, there's only, there's only five left.

[B]

You know, guys start sweating.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Keith wants to know half of the first round prospects have real outlier traits or injury concerns come draft day. Do you see jams prioritizing, prioritizing safer prospects like Venga Iowane, Dylan Thienaman or even a Jacob Rodriguez that could propel them up the board?

[A]

First of all, good. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Taking a guard or a safety or an off ball linebacker isn't safe just from a positional approach. Second of all, I hope that we're not suggesting that Jacob Rodriguez is a first round pick because he's missed. I love the player, love the story. Misses a lot of tackles. He is not in the conversation as a first round guy. I think we can agree on that. Right. He's a day two player.

[A]

Yeah. Shorter arms. By the way. He's gonna be 20, 23. 23 and like seven months he's going to be 24 early in his rookie year. So he's not an outlier. But there's certainly some things. But I also mentioned, have heard. Here's what, here's what I can tell you if you're asking this question and you are Keith, Keith, Keith. And we appreciate your question and, and you subscribing because that's the only way you can get questions in apparently. That's good business. Here's what I can tell you. There's 12 players. I said 11 the other day. I'd go to 12 because I. Because McCoy is now firmly in that 12. There's 12 players from Jeremiah Love to Sonny Styles, Arvell Reese to Mendoza to David Bailey. I'm just reading my board. To Caleb Downs, to Carnell Tate, to Ruben Bain Jr. To the cornerbacks Monsoon Delane and Jermad McCoy to Francis Maui Noah and to in my opinion, opinion Venga Yoane. But I don't think he would be one of those guys where you would say they're going, they're going in the top 11 or 12. He's not.

[B]

So right.

[A]

There's a. Those are the 11 guys. Okay. Now Spencer Fano could very easily go in that we just said could go six, could go nine. So after that and the reason I Bring that up. Bain's included in that and he's got an outlier Thanos included on the exterior, on the perimeter. And he's an arm length outline outlier. Both those guys are right. So you've got that to sort through. But they're still gonna go, right? I think worst case, we're talking 14 for Fano and Bane. I just don't even like. I think it's gonna be. I honestly think it's going to be 8 to 10.

[B]

He's got. Someone's gonna, he's gonna find someone. It's gonna get figured out with him. I feel like, you know, you could sit there and twist your brain about who it's gonna be, but someone is taking him in the top 10.

[A]

Now to me, like the, the Ioanne is. We just believe in him.

[B]

He's.

[A]

We've got him ranked as high as McShane Mensch do or somewhere similar. And we're in the middle, middle late first round. Let's get our guy. And that could start at Baltimore at 14, if I'm being quite honest. Okay.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Them in. Everyone's talking about Minnesota. I think Thieman, I think EMW, Emmanuel McNeil, Warren from Toledo. I think those guys are start and at 18 with with Minnesota. There are some other teams though that have some, some safety interest, but there's

[B]

no world, let's say like there's no world.

[A]

Chicago's the other one. Minnesota and Chicago in that division are eagerly looking for safeties. Minnesota more so than Chicago because I think Chicago could surprise people taking offensive tackle. But I honestly think edge and safety are the two positions where they look. But to me, like, yeah, the positional value trumps kind of the, the outlier stuff. Right. But I do think it's going to be interesting late in the first if the tackles have run out and the edges, we've hit that barrier where it's like, no, the rest of these guys are day two guys. There's a lot of names swirling around in, in the media right now because I, I promise you NFL teams, they're looking at, they're looking at mocks to figure out where, how this thing could play out. Almost like you watch game tape for a Saturday or a Sunday.

[B]

College NFL, they're very open about it. Yep.

[A]

Very. Every single one of them. They all have. And they have simulators, they have like their analytics people, all of that and they do their own. But they're not talking about who's going to sneak into the late first. It's more like how's what's the landscape looking like. But in the media we're especially like the insiders and some people we have conversations and it's like well, some people are higher on this guy or that guy. And so that starts to leak and you start hearing names like your boy Keelan Rutledge is a possibility. I've heard Rodriguez is a possibility. Your boy Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson, who was kind of our boy, if I'm being honest. I've got him sitting is 35 overall. It won't be a big surprise.

[B]

No, he's our guy.

[A]

Even though. Got it. Even though you. Even though it's 1A, 1B. I promise I will always, I will always defer to you on Chris Johnson because you yell at your poor daughter and you yell at your poor wife and anyone else who will listen, including Drew Fabian. It's from the Senior bowl about how much you love Chris Johnson. So there's a lot of names being thrown around that are. I don't safer just good football players. Jacob Rodriguez, you know what? He is even more so Chris Johnson and we know what he is. He may not. He ran in four fours. Ran a four. Four, I think. Which kind of surprised me a little bit.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you just know he's a damn good football player. Keelan Rutledge is not a great athlete, bro. I promise you he's not. But he's just a damn good nasty football player. Those guys, those are the names you start to hear when you get down to like picks 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 of who could sneak in late, you know.

[B]

Yeah. The safe question comes I think comes into play more within a position group. So you might value an offensive tackle who's safer over another offensive tackle. You're not going to take a guard because you feel like he's a safer guy over a tackle who might have some questions, you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You ready for the next one?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ben D. With multiple rumors coming out about teams wanting to trade down in the top seven ish. Arizona, Cleveland, Washington. Who are the realistic trade up partners? Nobody wants to give up the 2027 draft capital. There are no quarterbacks to trade up for and the targets would be for non premium positions according to the applicable salaries. Not me. Teams within striking distance. New Orleans, Kansas City, Dallas, the Rams. All right.

[A]

New Orleans has eight picks, one in each of the first three rounds and. And Mickey is always a threat to move up. I don't know that like they've got multiple positions though. When I look at Them, I think they'd like to sit still if in a perfect world. Stick it. Stick at eight. They've got eight picks overall. Stick at eight. They get a cornerback. Need. They need another receiver opposite Chris Olave there. To me, they're not in the business. They shouldn't. They shouldn't be in the business of moving up from one guy. They're not one guy away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got to get another receiver for shock.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Their edge, their edges don't match what their defensive coordinator wants. And they're old.

[B]

They're not great.

[A]

They need a corner. I just said those three positions. Yeah. So who are the other teams that you mentioned?

[B]

Kansas City. Dallas.

[A]

Kansas City. Yeah. Could they have nine picks? They've got three in the first three rounds. But I also feel like they're kind of resetting a little bit. I think another weapon. I think they need a tight end to back up in addition to a wide receiver. They need a tight end to start prepping. This is it for Kelsey and quite honestly, Kelsey was. He was good. He was productive. But like, they need a difference maker that can. Can Isaiah likely type situation right early in his career. Right. They need another offensive lineman, you would think, for depth and maybe to push for a starting job. They need an edge like those are. They've got four needs that I'd like to see Brett Veach sit back and Andy Reid and attack. So I don't. I don't see them. Here's some. Here are the teams with the most picks or the teams that, like, first of all, Dallas has been rumored. I think it's probably another team you mentioned. Dallas has been a big rumor and I get it. It's Dallas. We got to talk about the Cowboys. And I even mentioned, like, I've heard some things that they might want to get aggressive. You look at their 30 visits, it's all those top guys and you're like, come on, Jerry. They ain't lasting the 12. So like there's. There's got to be a reason they're looking. And they've. They've made a lot of moves too, where you could justify if they. They absolutely love Bailey or Reese and they think Reese is going to be the next Micah. You could justify it, but I want to give you some reality check here. Unless you're giving away a pick next year, which is a mortal sin. But they don't need a quarterback. But it's still a mortal sin. Dallas has eight picks overall. They don't have a second. So they've two in the first.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, so you'd have to trade away a third this year and like a second next year. You don't pick again until the four. You don't pick again till Saturday, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Miami has the most picks. 11. Seven in the first three rounds. Seven. They need them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pittsburgh has 12 picks. Three of them are in the third round. Five picks in the first three rounds. Pittsburgh does. If I'm reading that, if I. My notes are correct. Yeah. One, two, three. Yeah. Three in the third. 76, 85 and 99. That's a great spot for Pittsburgh. Khan, Andy Whitele and the guys like I, I think then they, I think they can significant. And one of those will be a quarterback but not necessarily has to be. I, I think, I think one of those would be a quarterback whether it's a Carson Becker enough Smyer or someone like that or Cole Payton. Yeah.

[B]

Just go get another Will Howard. It sounds that makes sense.

[A]

Take acts, bro. Take hacks.

[B]

I hear you. You're not wrong. That's a cheap shot. But you know this is the problem.

[A]

Long, short, they're the teams that have a lot of picks kind of need them. And you could say Pittsburgh maybe not. But that's not, that's not their DNA. They're not making some splash pick to go up from 21 in the top 10 to get one player. They're just not the teams that have a lot of picks need them. Yeah, I don't. I keep hearing everyone saying could the

[B]

Rams trade, trade something. I don't even know what they have left yet. What they have left anymore to go get a Carnell Tate.

[A]

The Rams believe it or not have, have a pick in each of the first three rounds. 13, 61 and 93.

[B]

So let's don't need them picks.

[A]

He just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No he doesn't. But yeah, I don't know. We'll see that.

[B]

Would that be just such a great.

[A]

Everyone know there could be a lot of movement when we get to a certain portion of the first round that things could get a little. A little wacky and I think it probably would be the edge rushers and the. And the offensive tackles. If it happens it certainly is not going to be for any quarterbacks after. Unless in Arizona and the jets sitting there at 30. The jets are picking at 33. Arizona is picking at 34. So if Arizona is nervous about the jets taking Ty Simpson, something like that, I could see them Moving up to 20. No higher than 20. Where's Houston 28. Houston could be a trade back team that makes sense. Houston's roster, by the way, top to bottom. Nick Casario might have the best. Obviously Seattle, obviously the Rams. He might, top to bottom, have the best roster in the afc. In fact, he has the best roster in the roster in the afc. I just studied it. They are. They're loaded. Offensive line wise, they're better. Yeah, they're better.

[B]

That defense is insane. I mean, you just go through the games on the defense is insane.

[A]

They don't have a true need like most of these teams. I've got like an either or for the first two. Some Miami's got four. I put brackets around four needs that are like massive. Right? They don't have one that offensive tackle, interior, defensive line. They want a big cornerback, but they're not. Like they can live. They can line up and play tomorrow. Gets his straight. Truly. All right, this is fun. It went way too long. Tucker and Dan are mad.

[B]

Wrap it up.

[A]

But it's good to have you back, men. You're always missed, but I appreciate you're doing Yeoman's work. And we're excited to drop a Monday big day.

[B]

We got.

[A]

We got a monster week next week. It starts on Monday with the top 150 and top 150 evaluations and 200 rankings. That's a big one, man. Yeah, it's our last one before our last one. And that's on the ringer.com mcshay then on Wednesday, we've got Mach 4.0 and you're doing a mock with me. I don't care what you say. I don't care. No first mock ever.

[B]

I don't know why.

[A]

Thursday we start our. What?

[B]

I don't know why. I'm getting heat for that. I don't know where that came from, but yeah, go ahead.

[A]

It came from nowhere. You haven't pushed back at all. And we start our position breakdowns which will include a three round mock in it. I've done a three round mock since like before I had like hair under my pits, in my pits, on my pits, whatever. I haven't done a three round mock since like I was climbing that ladder.

[B]

Dan's gonna stroke out this rap.

[A]

Five stars, Mitch.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

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[C]

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