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- [00:00]
Mitch
Foreign.
- [00:06]
McShay
The NFL free agency and trade market are going absolutely berserk right now. We have a lot to react to. And how does it affect the upcoming NFL draft? Speaking of which, mention, I already, at this point, have some day two prospects that we're ready to bang on the table for. And by the way, there's just 45 days until the NFL draft. The urgency is palpable. Men, you good?
- [00:30]
Mitch
I'm great, man.
- [00:32]
McShay
All my favorite beat tuck. It's a manic Monday, Mitch. I gotta be honest.
- [00:57]
Mitch
A lot of alerts going off.
- [00:59]
McShay
Yeah, a lot of alerts going off. I mean, I'm gonna have notes.
- [01:03]
Mitch
We're gonna be.
- [01:03]
McShay
It's gonna be your ADHD, the McShay show episode. So just hang with us here. We're gonna bounce around. We got a lot going on, but then we'll slow things down. And mention, I have been diving deep into tape and there's some players that we want to talk about. Like, every single year. There's some guys that get to the second and third round that we just are in love with, whether it's a measurable college injury, maybe a character, whatever it is that lands them in on day two. But we just know that they're going to be massive impact players in the NFL. And we six of those guys, three each at the end of this this episode is brought to you by TaxAct. From rookies to experts, TaxAct helps you navigate every tax play with accuracy guaranteed. Get tips along the way, Add expert assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.
- [02:09]
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- [02:36]
McShay
Joe, pumped to have you with us. This, like, do you feel it, men?
- [02:41]
Mitch
Yeah, I am very much feeling it.
- [02:47]
McShay
I feel like I feel it and get excited. You feel it. I can sense the. The concern, but I understand we got a lot of players.
- [02:53]
Mitch
Yeah, you got to get it right, man. Like, that's. That's, to me, like, you know, this. And this is what I would call a cluster draft. And Not a cluster F draft. I mean, a cluster drafted. There's a lot of tight races at different parts of the ladder in the draft, if you want to put it that way, and you want to make sure you get it right. And that means, you know, really digging in and making sure that you're, you know, you've done all your homework. So you're putting these kids in the right spot. You know what I mean?
- [03:17]
McShay
And the buckets are. They're. They're tricky this year, which I like,
- [03:21]
Mitch
which makes it exciting. Yeah, right? Yeah, it's great about it, but it is a more challenging. It's actually one of the more challenging drafts that I can remember, which is awesome.
- [03:28]
McShay
All right. And we're gonna. We're here for the next 45 days and beyond to walk you through everything and have the best insight that' out there. We got a mock draft coming out next week. It's. Is that 3.0? I think that's right. 3.0 is coming out next Wednesday. I believe we're going to start our position series, I think, with quarterbacks next week, and show note, this is very important. Okay. We always crank it up this time of year because, as I said twice now, I'll make it a third. 45 days until the NFL draft. Was it 45 or 44? Whatever it is, we're under 50 days until the draft.
- [04:02]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [04:03]
McShay
Three shows a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Okay. During the season, it's three shows a week. It's Monday, Thursday, and then we got our Saturday Night Live show reacting to all the games. And then we kind of go to two a week for a while. And now we're going to crank it up for the next two months leading up to and through the draft. Three shows a week until we're live in LA for the weekend of the. Of the draft. Thursday, Friday, set. Like, it's going to be a wild time already working on Rossello behind the scenes. Don't say anything for day three. But most, most importantly, we start on Sunday. We land on Sunday right in Los Angeles. We go straight to the new studios fired up about that, and we've got the. That's the biggest show of the year in terms of, like, buzz and intel. Right. That weekend before the draft is one of the most fun weekends for me because I'm talking to general managers around the league and, like, they're asking me questions and I'm formulating concepts off of it. And then we share as much information as we're allowed to share on that Sunday to kind of Kick off for the full week of the NFL draft. So that's, that's that. And remember, three shows a week. That means we're going to come back on Wednesday with a lot of updates. Here's the schedule right now. Negotiation window just opened up, noon Eastern time. Okay. And, and on Wednesday, the. It's the official start to the league year right on at 4:00pm Eastern Time on Wednesday. And that's when contracts can be signed and trades become official. Okay. So right now we're in this kind of like tampering, you know, legal tampering, period. But it, but now, you know, the negotiation window for legal Tampa tampering had just opened. So a lot more news overnight. And that's why I said we got to come back on Wednesday and Friday because we got a lot to react to. Team needs, who's plugging, you know, spots and free agency. And a lot of clarity for me in terms of positions of value, positions of strength in the draft and why teams are going after certain positions. I want to start here, though, with the quarterbacks. The biggest news overnight or this morning, I should say, is, is that Tuatanga Bioa has basically been handed around $99 million to get out of our locker room. Right. You know, you got, you got John Eric Sullivan, the new general manager of the Miami Dolphins. You're looking at what they're trying to build there. Okay. Jeff Halfley's good friend who worked here at bc, spent some time up there with him. Just believe in the man, okay? He, he recognizes, like, this is my organization with, with, with John Eric Sullivan, and we've got to get kind of a clean slate, clear things up. Now you look at what's going on with the quarterback trade, slash free agency market. The most important player in that market is Malik Willis, who we kind of liked more than people, more than a lot of people did coming out of the draft, but also recognized when he was at Liberty, like he doesn't know what he doesn't know. I remember saying that a lot about him. He's going to need a lot of good coaching and development and he's gotten that. And where did he get it in Green Bay and where Jeff Halfley come from? Green Bay. So now all the speculation is, Steve, that like 24 hours ago it was like kind of seems like Arizona because they're getting rid of their big price quarterback as well to get a fresh start. And Kyler Murray and now Arizona was kind of linked to Malik, but now there's a lot of talk about him going down With Jeff Halfley. Here's what I want to bring to awareness. Okay. I've had conversations with hot executive vice presidents and like high senior, whatever you want to call them. I don't want to give away the exact, you know, exact title because it might give away the people I'm talking to and general managers. Obviously there have been specific moves made quietly and not so or apparently and not so apparently. With the eyes set on 2027. Okay. For the quarterback position especially. But not just quarterback. We just saw Max Crosby, right?
- [08:23]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [08:24]
McShay
They're drafting their quarterback one overall they get the 14th pick from the Ravens.
- [08:30]
Mitch
Right.
- [08:30]
McShay
But they also get a 2027 first round pick. I want to remind people it's not just that quarterback group. It's wide receivers starting with. With Jeremiah Smith. It's. It's edge rushers. Colin Simmons from Texas comes to mind, but there's several of them offensive tackles. Okay. So as. As like John Spytek is looking at it like the thing with Max wasn't going to work for. You can go read Albert Breer's column. You could read a bunch of people different column from Alex Guerrera to like. It was a mess. They had to move on. But they were able to get a first this year, a first next year. Additional picks, right. For the quarterback market mensch. There are several. There are two people I've talked to in very high ranking positions that have said. And we talked to six general managers at the, at the combine, remember? And a couple of them brought up, we don't do it. I think it was. I think the first one we talked to was. Was Elliot Wolf who said we don't do it for other positions. You asked the question, right? Do you advance scout a draft for certain positions, all positions or just quarterbacks and. And make personnel decisions in free agency trades and draft for this upcoming draft based off of what could be available in 2027. And he gave the answer that I would expect most general managers to give, which was quarterbacks, yes. Other positions, no. Right. Not like, you know, unless it's something like. But you just. You can't plan on that. So many things.
- [10:06]
Mitch
It's a dangerous game. Yeah.
- [10:07]
McShay
The dangerous game. Okay. But teams that the Patriots clearly don't need a quarterback with Drake may. But I've talked to teams offline that have said we're absolutely looking ahead to 2027. Okay. And so with Miami getting letting to a go, Arizona letting Kyler go, some of these moves, we're seeing a quarterback.
- [10:31]
Mitch
The Raiders letting Geno go.
- [10:33]
McShay
Right. But they're they're going to address it in 2026 with Fernando Mendoza.
- [10:39]
Mitch
Right. But Gino could be. I, I get what you're saying.
- [10:42]
McShay
But, but some of the, but some, some of these quarterbacks, and I talked to one, one executive who said, you know, like, I, I think maybe the mindset could be. I'm not saying definitively, but like, if we got a couple 2027 picks, maybe the mindset is let's bring someone in who's going to. So this, the ship doesn't crash next year. Because we all want to make sure we have jobs for 2027, but we'll win enough games where we're showing progress, we're building the roster around that position. And then in 2027, we're, we're armed with the ammunition to go get one of these guys. Right?
- [11:20]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [11:21]
McShay
We don't want, we want to win enough games to keep people happy, but not too many. Where we got a package, not only the two first rounders, but maybe an additional one for 2028 or whatever it is. It's absolutely going on inside draft rooms right now for organizations that don't have a quarterback. And I want to remind you, if you're the jets, if you're the Dolphins, you look around that division, I got Josh Allen and I got Drake May, and I better be equipped or else. Like, look at, look at what? Like the Raiders have been dealing with or the Broncos before them, before Beau Nix and Sean Payton came to town with Mahomes and Herbert in their, in their division, you know.
- [12:01]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [12:02]
McShay
So that's a lot of the talk, the talk behind the scenes with the quarterback class. I'm actually working and I would. I've never brought this up in all my years, but Archie Manning brought it up during the off season, so I feel like it's, it's fair game to bring it up. I'm working with archie and we're te. We were texting last night at 11 o' clock at night. I've never, I've helped him for many years. I'm not saying it's my, my list is the authority. I'm sure he reaches out to several people. But he made it public this year that he's been utilizing me as a resource to create the, the list of players that he sends the invites to. Right. And I don't think I've ever gotten to 30 faster men. And I'm not going to list all 30, but I sent him this list and I'll just read a handful of the names off of the top but we got to 30 real fast and then he's probably invite like 48, 50, something like that because some guys can't go, some guys won't go, whatever the reasons and they'll. He'll narrow it down to around probably 35, 40 quarterbacks that show up at the Manning Passing Academy in, in late June, early July down in Thibodeau, Louisiana. Arch Manning, Dante Moore, Brandon Sorsby, C.J. carr. That's not necessarily in this order, but it's in, it's in a range. Lenora Sellers, Julian Saying the, the freshman from, from Cal Saga PO. But he's, he's not eligible for 2027. But now we've got Chambliss in the mix. Trinidad Chambliss, Darian Mensah who's going down to Miami. We all know what's, what's going to go on there, right? Sam Levitt. Oh, he's going to, I mean it took that long to get this to
- [13:37]
Mitch
go play for Lane at lsu.
- [13:39]
McShay
Yeah, he's going to play. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. He his, his stock won't soar next year. Emaliava Mayava, John Matier, Mester Maker, Stockton, Crazy Hoover. Like that's wild. So I say all that because Malik, there's only one Malik. Everyone else that's going to be brought in is, is a Band Aid or as a backup like Tuatanga is going to wind up somewhere with a team that's going to make a playoff run where if they need him to step in for two, three, four weeks, they know they can win when a couple, a couple few games. Kirk Cousins is going to be a Band Aid or a backup. You know, like all of these guys are going to be banned.
- [14:25]
Mitch
Will be a Band Aid backup. Kyler.
- [14:27]
McShay
Yeah, I'm interested.
- [14:28]
Mitch
Market is, it'll be interesting to see what the 2 market even is because I think he was in the perfect situation. It didn't work out in Miami, so it'll be interesting.
- [14:36]
McShay
So there's I will say this. Go ahead.
- [14:38]
Mitch
Yeah, it's not our, this is not really our angle on this show but I, I, it, it is sticking in my mind. Like I, I love Malik Willis coming out of Liberty like more than anyone else. I thought he could have gone late first and ended up going third. I mean that's how much I liked him. I thought he was, I thought the traits were enough to bet on. You're looking at all those names you just mentioned and now you're gonna give. What are you Gonna give Malik Willis a three year, four year. What's that deal gonna look like when you give it to him? Has he really done enough? Have we seen enough of Malik Willis to make that kind of a bet? To move your chips all in on Malik Willis? And I again, like, you either.
- [15:13]
McShay
Yeah. You either love them, you better or you're. You're scared that it's. You know, it's just. It's a small sample size. And it also seems like this is.
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Mitch
Right. You're the exact. This is a. It's a shallow quarterback market for free agents. So are you just. Are you over inflating his value? Because he's a step ahead of everyone else, which I. I do believe is true. I think there's more to be excited about with him and his development in his game than the other quarterbacks that are available. That. That's true. But. So it can also be true that. I don't know, man. Like, I don't know. Like, do we think he's going to be the next Sam Darnold? And. I don't know.
- [15:49]
McShay
I think Miami's bringing him in and paying him the money that they're going to pay him or. Yeah. They're potential. Potentially reports are. Could offer him. They're doing so thinking we've got a guy that's going to give us a chance to compete with Drake May and Josh Allen.
- [16:04]
Mitch
Yes. And what's that look like? Years. I want. I'm more. I'm more interested in the length of the contract than I am the actual number. That's more interesting to me.
- [16:14]
McShay
How.
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Mitch
How much. How much of your time are you going to invest in this player? Like, how long is this gonna. How much of a Runway are you going to give him?
- [16:23]
McShay
I'm most interested in. In. What's your out clause? Yes.
- [16:28]
Mitch
You know what?
- [16:29]
McShay
Same because. Because if it doesn't work out in year one, which would be 2026, are you willing to. Are you. Have you positioned yourself financially? Because here's the. Here's the tug of war. Here's it right. Like on one end, you're tugging like there's other. There's other organizations in the market. So we've got to put a. An offer out that's attractive enough and secure enough for Malik to be our guy. On the other hand, you're saying, well, if it's not working and we get that, we've got all these quarterbacks. Quarterbacks in 2027, can we get away from this thing? I don't think you can go into this thing half assed. You can't actually. That's the problem. Therein lies the rub, man. And the flip side all in on Malik knowing that I can't even afford. I mean, I could find a way to afford to go then draft a quarterback like an Archer, a Dante or one of those guys if it's not what I hope it's going to be. But I don't envision years of experience and understanding contracts. There's no, there's no way in which you offer the money that it's going to require to get Malik Willis and then wind up in a situation next year. We're like, oh, that didn't work and now we got to go draft one. You just. It's one or the other. Well, you can do it.
- [17:48]
Mitch
But now you've mismanaged resources. Now it is a, it's a you.
- [17:52]
McShay
Yeah. Now you can't pay the rest of your roster.
- [17:54]
Mitch
Right.
- [17:55]
McShay
Right now you have massive setback. So you've got that going on. Then there's this like secondary market of quarterbacks this year, which is not very deep. After Fernando Mendoza, it's Ty Simpson for some teams that believe in him, others don't. Others don't believe in a 6 foot 1 quarterback who was injured in his own year. Only years of first year starter and only has 15 starts entering the league. Those are three strikes, man. And I still love them. But I'm, I'm sensible in that. It's, it's more a late first round grade and a lot of people have second round grades on them. Okay, so there's that and then there's. Everyone else you're drafting is as a backup. You hope you hit, you hope you hit on Garrett Nussmeyer and he becomes this like unbelievable value in round three or round two or three or Carson Beck. Some people still, like Drew Aller apparently drew out his name in the draft. Have fun.
- [18:49]
Mitch
Crazy Taylor Green, man. Another thing. Do you want to take a shot?
- [18:55]
McShay
But that's more, that's more of a developmental. How do we utilize him? Same with Cole Payton. Two guys were phenomenal athletes and runners that you want to bring in. One's a lefty from North Dakota State. The other one's a tall like unbelievably gifted righty from lanky tall, athletic. My gosh, he is, he is body beautiful and explosive and fast from Arkansas that you're not getting, getting anything out of them besides maybe a sub package here and there for a couple of years. And you're hoping down the line so none of that is resolving your long term, your, your at least the next couple years.
- [19:33]
Mitch
Right.
- [19:33]
McShay
So that's where we are with the quarterback market. And that's just the quarterback market. Okay. It does lead us to the five teams. We got five teams now with first round, two first round picks. The Raiders in Tucker. Awesome job with the graphics. Always keeps us going. These are the top 12 picks in the NFL draft coming up in April. The Las Vegas Raiders sitting at number one but also have the 14th pick now. So it's Mendoza and let's build around, right? Yep. But is that, is that an edge to replace Max or is it an offensive lineman? Is it a target? You know what I mean? So there's a lot of questions there. The jets at number two, promise you not going to be a quarterback with pick number 2 or 16. They made the moves they made and they, they, they actually wisely had an offer for a second this year. No, a first this year and a second next year and wound up flip flopping it to get a second, a second this year and a first next year to position themselves for the quarterback. They are absolutely building this organization to be ready to draft the quarterback and have a supporting cast around him for 20, 27. And for all the stuff that I will say and continue to say about ownership and the way that this organization is run, I do think that Moji is very smart and I think he has support around him and I think that front office like actually knows what they're doing. And I like their plan. It's a plan. If I was dropped in that job, this is the exact plan I would, I would have had and I would hate to do it because I'm dismantling a lot of, a ton of great draft picks. And they know it. They're like Joe Douglas came in here and they like there was there, there was personnel. But it, I know the behind the scenes story of what actually happened. Everyone bangs on Joe and that's fine. But they had to do what they had to do in order to set themselves up. Because if you don't have a quarterback in this league and especially in that conference and especially in that division, you get no shot. So, so you get them sitting there with, with 2 and 16. Arizona, Tennessee and the Giants are 3, 4, 5 respectively. They don't have a second first round pick. But then you get to Cleveland at 6 and 24. Could it be at 24? Ty Simpson, they going to run with their guys? Sean Watson's back. I don't like. What do you make of that Shador Sanders is there. Are they going to try to move around, maybe fleece someone to get a 20, 27 additional first? But they've got two first. First round picks. Then Washington, New Orleans, Kansas city, Cincinnati, Miami, seven through 11. And then you get to Dallas. Is the, is the, what is that the fourth Dallas? Yeah, Dallas has the. Oh, sorry, the Chiefs. I skipped over the Chiefs because I get this window in front of me. The Chiefs are sitting there at nine with also pick 29 from the Trent McDuffie trade. We've had two trades Mensch in the last week, right. Non quarterbacks that have provided additional first round picks for organizations. The Chiefs, Brett Veach realizing, hey, we got to go back to drawing board. We got to reset, we got to get younger, we got to get faster. And he's. He's got pick nine and 29. And then the Cowboys at 12 and 20 who, oh, by the way, just had a very underrated. It's not official yet, but an underrated deal for a day three pick to get Rashawn Gary.
- [23:15]
Mitch
Right.
- [23:15]
McShay
So they, they give up Micah. They get Rashawn Gary. They got a ton of draft capital. Rashawn Gary's kind of underrated, man. If you look at his pressures and his sacks over his career, I'm not saying that solves it and the defense is fixed by any stretch. They're still going to go probably cornerback and it could go linebacker. They, you know, they can go anywhere in that, in that defensive front seven, to be quite honest. But. But that's where the Cowboys sit with two picks in the top 20. Any thoughts?
- [23:45]
Mitch
It's. I mean, I love what these teams are doing. I did want to get your. I. Because I go for the lowest hanging fruit. Sorry, did you. Are we firing Eric Dacosta or. No, I wanted to know that.
- [24:00]
McShay
I know what you're saying.
- [24:03]
Mitch
Sorry, I couldn't resist. There's so many other angles to go here and my brain's like, ask him.
- [24:07]
McShay
Yeah, I made the comment and I, and I should have clarified.
- [24:10]
Mitch
I thought. By the way, I backed you up too. I was like, no, I'm like giving you a hard time. But at the time I was like, yeah, you're right, dude, you can't do that. That's crazy.
- [24:17]
McShay
No, but it was, it was, it was using. It was trading a. It was, it was trying to move up during this year's draft because every time we had the conversation and so
- [24:29]
Mitch
this is still okay.
- [24:30]
McShay
This is still okay. Okay. My point was with the. If you're moving up because you get anxious. I am a big believer. ATB is one of our biggest fans. Always trade back, right?
- [24:41]
Mitch
Yep.
- [24:42]
McShay
And like his. His handle itself is something I believe in strongly. More is better if we're as great as all these organizations are with the analytics and the scouts and the evaluations and all, like history has shown us, more picks is always a better concept and always pays better dividends than trading away picks to go move up to get one player.
- [25:05]
Mitch
Right.
- [25:05]
McShay
And Mickey Loomis disagrees, and that's fine. And he's had a lot of success. But like, I think over time it shows the organizations that move back stockpile picks and then hand pick when they maybe move up a little bit. But overall are trading back and stockpiling because you're going to miss on picks. Yeah, but you're going to hit. You're going to hit on a third round or every once in a while you hit on a fifth round or a sixth round or seventh round. So the more. The more at bats you get, the better your odds of building a successful roster. So my point was in that any team on draft night that goes to move up to get one of these players in this draft, which is really good, and we talk about picks like 10 through 40, there's a sweet spot in this draft, but it's not the elite elite at the top of the draft like we typically see. And the ones that are up there, the Jeremiah Loves, the Caleb Downs, the sunny styles, throw in Arvell Reese if you want, Vengea Ioanne, the offensive guard, they're not premium positions. So it doesn't make. My sensibility is they're like, yeah, can't do it. We're not trading a 2027 when that draft is one of the greatest of all time. It's set up to be quarterback, wide receiver, edge, offensive tackle. It's loaded.
- [26:29]
Mitch
Right.
- [26:30]
McShay
Can't do that during the draft night. But you go get Max Crosby. Yeah, we're cool. You go get.
- [26:36]
Mitch
No, we're cool.
- [26:37]
McShay
You know what I mean?
- [26:38]
Mitch
I mean, they gave up a lot, Baltimore did. I listen, I. I think that's a trade, a great trade for them. The other one that I think is kind of flying under the radar and I think it's interesting, too, because the Travis Kelsey news came out that he's going to return for another year, but maybe not with the Chiefs, and we kind of went over the McDuffie trade. But the more I look at that, they have two first rounds. What is the state of the union for this Kansas City Chiefs team that it has Patrick Mahomes in their prime. And what, what is Veach going to pull out of his, out of the hat? What, what magic tricks is he gonna pull out here?
- [27:11]
McShay
Do you remember a year ago John schneider made the DK's gone. You let Gino go. He made Gino an offer.
- [27:18]
Mitch
I don't, I'm not, I'm not doubting him. I'm not saying that I'm interested to see what they do.
- [27:23]
McShay
I, I think he's setting it up in a very similar manner. Those are two guys that are in John Schneider with Seattle. And I said it at the time. I remember jumping on the phone with Dan Comer and, and Dan would furiously typing up all my notes. I started in Cape Cod and, and finished in my bedroom, sitting in the chair in my bedroom talking to Dan. Okay, fact. Because I, because it, it, it like spoke to me what he was doing. And I've known John for 20 plus years and this is like, it's who he is. It's in his blood. Green Bay, right? Ron Wolf, like he's a scout, a talent evaluator. We build through the draft. Brett Veach got elevated. I know I've sat in the room with Brett and with Andy and talked to them about like it was Brett banging down my door, calling me at weird times of night, telling me about like this Texas Tech quarterback when he was a freshman. We, you have this guy and that was kind of when, when Brett and Andy aligned. And Brett's known, we've talked to other gms when they talk about other people in the league that they have great deals of respect for, a great deal of respect for. He's one that like hierarchy, that high, higher up on the list of guys who can identify talent. And so I, I, I believe like Schneider did a year ago, he's looking at it and saying it's a different circumstance because you have Darnold. They've got, they've got, they've got one of the elites, if not the elite quarterback in the NFL. But he's coming off of now an injury and he's recognizing we got to get younger and better around him. And so that's what they're doing. And it's going to be offensive line, it's going to be a reliable target. All right. Ian Rapaport, just breaking news. It won't be by the time this comes out, but Kelsey is staying in Kansas City, which, that was like a 24 hour.
- [29:18]
Mitch
I don't know. That was just a 24 hour. Of I don't know. Or was it just I wonder if it was. I. I know. Don't.
- [29:22]
McShay
I don't think it necessarily was Kelsey saying I don't know as much as it was. The reporter maybe didn't get that information. But. But there it is.
- [29:29]
Mitch
Right.
- [29:30]
McShay
What we all assumed. Okay. Yes. So. So Brett Veach is going to try to do what Schneider did a year ago. Let's get some draft picks. Let's load this team up. Let's get younger. Let's get more explosive around the quarterback. We don't. Hopefully by mid season, end of season, Mahomes is right back to exactly who. Who he was. Right. But it might not be early on. We might need to. We might need a Jeremiah Love to run, actually run the Rock and show commitment to it. We might need to be a little stronger up front to protect him. We might need a reliable, consistent target at wide receiver because we. Kelsey's no. No pup.
- [30:07]
Mitch
Right.
- [30:07]
McShay
And why is he still leading this team and receive like it doesn't make sense. So that's what I think he's doing. And they spent a lot of draft picks over a lot of years on that defensive side of the ball and they've. And they're certainly not without holes on that side edge especially. But I do think there's got to be an emphasis on building around Patrick a little bit more.
- [30:32]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [30:33]
McShay
Yeah, I agree. So there's. There's. That does it also.
- [30:36]
Mitch
I'll just say this really quickly.
- [30:38]
McShay
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Mitch
It also feels like Jerry Jones has got some urgency about this Dallas team and I think that he's. And you know, some of the comments about free agency and about maybe them spending some more money, them having two first round picks that, I mean, that's another fascinating one. I mean the Deshaun Watson story in Cleveland, like all these teams that have two picks, there's something there. Like there's. There's meat on the bone for all of those teams to talk about what's going on in those buildings.
- [31:01]
McShay
Well, you got Ross in Miami. Jerry and Dallas. These are two guys that are. They're not really. They're aging. They're aging.
- [31:13]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [31:14]
McShay
And they're not really worried about five, seven years down the road. They want to win. They want to win while they can still enjoy it. I truly. And ownership is. Obviously makes every decision and that's where it starts. Especially in those organizations. Okay. I shouldn't say they make every. They. It's. It's driven there a little bit more. Especially Dallas. I'm not Ross doesn't interfere but like there's a. I'm working for and I need to, you know.
- [31:46]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [31:47]
McShay
Meet these goals. We all have bosses every. You know, so. And. And you've gotta kind of meet. Meet goals. And. And so with Miami, I say only. I only lump in Ross and Jerry because there absolutely is urgency. Let's bring in Rashad Gary. Let's spend. And we're going to spend more and you watch in the next 72 hours is going to be more and we've got two first round picks and we're going to bring like there's an urgency and smart tells you, smart football tells you we get a quarterback and it's hard to get one of those guys and he's not going to be playing at or near peak forever. So let's do this now at all lines. And in my end, Pickens didn't let
- [32:26]
Mitch
Pickens get out of the building, which I think was smart. But yeah.
- [32:29]
McShay
Yep. And in Miami, if it is Malik, it's a gamble, man. We just talked about that. That's you're paying 99 million to 2 to get out of your locker room so that we can start fresh and to go bring in Malik who we. We both agree and agreed at the time. Loaded with talent and love the progress he's made. But you better believe in him and you better have the pieces around him, you know, because when he had success in Green Bay, it's all those wide receivers. It's a really good tight end, pretty good offensive line, strong running game, good play caller. I mean, yeah, one of the best. So there's a lot to unpack there. I did find this interesting. We're just going to bounce around for a minute. I told you, it's adhd. It's an absolute frenzy right now. We're starting to see some of the positional values right in the league and we talk about positional value in the draft and I just wanted to get let people know if you take an Average Top 5 pay, right. Average pay yearly, if you take at each position, the top five players paid at that position and take the average of that. It starts with quarterback, as you would imagine. But like the league tells you through what it's willing to pay for these players where the value is right. And you start AT quarterback with 56 million, then a major drop off to 42 million for edge is the number two position of value based off of what the league is paying the top five guys at that position. Then there's another massive drop off. Guess the third Guess the third highest. This is a surprising one. Third highest position in five. Top five paid
- [34:18]
Mitch
receiver.
- [34:20]
McShay
Yes, yes.
- [34:21]
Mitch
Nice.
- [34:22]
McShay
Wide receiver. Wide receiver used to be middle of the pack. I know, I know. The wide receivers.
- [34:27]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [34:28]
McShay
Keep that in mind. I'm bringing this up because of the NFL draft and we're talking about guards and off the ball linebackers and safeties. And so I think, I think part of the reason you're seeing some of these trades and some of these moves and what's about to explode in the next 72 hours and beyond is because we've got a draft at the top that has a lot of elite players at non, non positional values. Right. And then we got a lot of really good players at positions of value. But you know, so quarterback edge, wide receiver, cornerback is four. But there's a major. It goes 56 million for quarterback, 42 million for edge, 34 million for wide receiver. And then it goes down in the. And a bunch of these are in the 20s now. So like those three are like slotted high with gaps between them. And then you get into the 20, the 20 million dollar range with cornerback at 28 million.
- [35:32]
Mitch
That was my assumption too.
- [35:33]
McShay
Yep. Interior defensive line man, we keep talking about it. It's the trend in the league. They get to the quarterback faster, they disrupt, they move these guys off, off the spot. 26 and a half million 20, almost 27 million. So those two are tight end and then right there next to it, left tackles 26, right tackles 25. And then we drop down to like 22 million. So it's a very clear quarterback, edge, wide receiver, corner, interior defensive line and offensive tackle. There's seven spots and then everyone else is in the low 20s to teens with guard safety, linebacker, tight end, running back. And this is where I'm going with this transition.
- [36:17]
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- [37:24]
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- [37:54]
McShay
Running back has actually been devalued and that's not breaking news. But down to the point where it's the second least paid for the top five average at 16 and a half million, I've been talking to people in the league. Center is the least paid, 13.8. That's probably going to change with Linderbaum and some of these moves. But running back, this market and free agency is wild at running back and you couple and we're talking about obviously Kenneth Walker.
- [38:26]
Mitch
Yeah. Travis.
- [38:27]
McShay
Travis. Etna Dowdle. Algier Tyler Algier. Brian Robinson. Robinson. Kenneth Gainwell, J.K. dobbins, who is a hotter name, I'm told, talking to people in the league than people think. He's coming up. He would have been ready to play in the super bowl off the injury if Denver had made it. So you get all those teams, right?
- [38:50]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [38:51]
McShay
All those running backs about to be. And I'm told that, that like, hey, there are some smart GMs out there that say that. Look at this, right. It's like a stock market. It's very much a stock market. Hey, that stock isn't worth it at 22, $22. But it's, it's way more valuable than $16. These guys score. These guys are catching the ball too, right? And people are like, hey, I can get something. And it might not be 16, but, but I can, I can get a really good value here because it got to a point where the running back position was too, the money was too high for veterans. And oftentimes you're getting a 27 year old, 28 year old veteran you're worried about. Okay, we'll get two, two good years, three good years. But then the last couple years on a five year deal, we don't know what we're going to get because that 30 year old thing is real for running backs. So I think some teams are going to ante up and I say that for this year's draft because there's only one Jeremiah Love. And talking to teams in the league and Jadarian Price is probably the, the majority vote for RB2 and Mike Washington from Arkansas is majority vote for RB3. And some might flip flop however you want to do it. But those guys, and quite frankly it may just be three in the top 100 and you say, well this, this class sucks. It's not as good as last year. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, but even last year's class that we were talking about like as good as 2017, McCaffrey and for net and all those guys like still only had six guys drafted in the first three rounds because again, the value is not there. We'll wait to the fourth round and we'll get some guys. Last year if you waited to the fourth round to quote unquote, get some guys, you got Bashul Tootin, you got Cam Scatterboo, you got Trevor Etn, you got Woody Marks pretty good here in Houston, although. And they just brought in another, another back, right? Teams are making moves for running backs. Nick Casario made the move to go get Knuckles from, from Detroit.
- [41:04]
Mitch
Oh, Dave Montgomery.
- [41:05]
McShay
Yeah. David Montgomery. It was, it was, it was Knuckles. Knuckles with Jameer Gibbs who they call Sonic. Sonic and Knuckles. Yeah. Jarquez Hunter, Dylan Sampson. All guys that are impact players.
- [41:20]
Mitch
But.
- [41:21]
McShay
And we were like, we had second, third round grades on a lot of those guys, but they go in the fourth this year. I told you Jeremiah Love's gonna wind up being drafted I think in the top five. It could be Arizona, it could be Tennessee at four, it could be the Giants at five. And if he doesn't, it's going to be shortly after that, the Saints at 8, the Chiefs at 9. But what's going to dictate that is probably the next 72 to 100 hours where he goes right, what, what deal can a G, a smart GM get for this running back position that's lower in value and for those who are on the outside looking in and don't get Jeremiah Love, you maybe have a generian price that you get in round two or Mike Washington day two. Right. But after that it's Jonah Coleman from Washington. There's a lot of guys that are capable of contributing, but none of these guys you're saying are going to be impact or not are going to be number one Bell Cow backs. You know, you don't, you don't project that. Emmett Johnson, Nebraska. The two Penn State guys, Katron Allen, Nicholas Singleton. Seth McGowan's getting a lot of love and he should after the Senior bowl coming out of Kentucky Senior bowl and his combine workout was sensational. Demon Claiborne, Wake Forest. Kalyn Black, Indiana. You and I both love Roman Henby, Indiana.
- [42:48]
Mitch
I mean they, yeah, these guys are all this is again, this is one
- [42:51]
McShay
of those clusters you get Adam Randall from Clemson. So my, my point is this running back class is not last year. We all know that there are some good guys to get in round four and five.
- [43:05]
Mitch
Yep.
- [43:05]
McShay
But it's not even like, not necessarily like last year's draft, but there's going to be a couple guys that come in the league and surprise. But general managers are looking at two things right now. They're saying, okay, we. It's been a long time since we've seen a running back market with this much fruit on the tree. Right. When you start talking about Kenneth Walker and, and ETN and and Dobbins and Algier, who's so underrated by the way.
- [43:32]
Mitch
Right.
- [43:34]
McShay
Dowdle and Robinson and Gainwell. There's a lot of running backs and where those guys go, you go spend money on a free agent running back. You're not spending a pick in the first three certainly and maybe not even the first four rounds on a running back. So we're going to learn a lot about this running back class and where, honestly, where's Jeremiah Love going?
- [43:53]
Mitch
Where.
- [43:54]
McShay
Because that, that, that pool of Arizona, Tennessee, Giants, Saints, Chiefs, all in the top 10. Five in the top 10 that we think is a possibility for Jeremiah Love, my number one rated player in this entire draft. That's going to reduce to probably three. Right. Based off of some of these moves. And Denver is another team that's going to be in the market for a running back. But it could be vet one of these veteran guys if they don't bring Dobbins back. So there's all of that to go through.
- [44:29]
Mitch
It's a lot. It's a lot, man.
- [44:31]
McShay
It's been a busy morning.
- [44:32]
Mitch
It's. It's a lot.
- [44:36]
McShay
And not to mention like the. We talked about it last week. The Rams bring in a cornerback and it's like we're, we're rider. We're so the, the evolution, the full circle of les need and f them picks with. With McVeigh to winning a Super bowl to like no, we really Value picks. And we're going to get a whole defensive line from Florida, Florida State, and we're going to actually smash your brains in in the NFL draft because that's what the Rams did. If you look at the last few years in the draft, the Rams are up there with the best in the league. Yeah, let's need like F them picks. But. But, oh, you want to give me picks and I'll. I'll smash.
- [45:10]
Mitch
I'll hit on the head with them. Yeah, yeah, I'll hit on him.
- [45:14]
McShay
But now he's back to F them picks. And it's not even FM picks. It's I. McVeigh might not be here for longer than Stafford's here, and Stafford's not going to be here for five years. Certainly we don't think for three. Two max. Maybe one.
- [45:30]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [45:31]
McShay
And we believe. And I don't totally disagree, we were the best team in the league last year. So let's go get that cornerback. When we gave up like 216 passing yards per game or something like that. And like, they just. They need to. So they got their cornerback better than anything they could have gotten. Not better than more of a surefire thing in Trent McDuffie than anything they. They could have brought in to count on right away.
- [45:55]
Mitch
Proven commodity.
- [45:56]
McShay
Yep. Because. Because Mansour Delaney is going to be gone by the time they pick. They would have picked at 13. Right.
- [46:03]
Mitch
Right.
- [46:04]
McShay
So, yeah. So there's all that.
- [46:08]
Mitch
And the market for Walker is going to be super interesting because I know it's a deeper free agency class, but coming off that performance and what he did, I'm interested to see if someone's going to say, I know this guy can carry us in the playoffs and play some Kenneth Walker.
- [46:23]
McShay
And then I. And then I talked about all the teams that are in the running back hunt right now. But if he leaves, then Seattle needs one, if you know what I mean? If. If with the ETN gone, then where's Jacksonville and all that.
- [46:38]
Mitch
I would.
- [46:39]
McShay
I would think that they.
- [46:40]
Mitch
My gut would be that Seattle would draft one because they have Charbonnet, who I know got hurt, but they have Charbonnet there. So they could. They could maybe find a guy who can come in like a Jerry and Price and be that number two and have Charbonnet bump up because he's been. Yeah, he's another one. He's Al Jared. Like, those two guys have been like, hidden on their rosters and they're just damn good backs.
- [47:00]
McShay
This is wild. This is why we have to have three Shows a week now. Yeah, because. Because when. And then when things cool down over the course of this week and in through the weekend, next Monday, we'll start in on the quarterbacks, we'll do our position series, and then next Wednesday, we got to rip out Mach 3.0. Yeah. Because now we're gonna have a lot of pieces starting to fall into place. And now we know the team needs. Especially for these five teams with two first round picks, we're gonna have a much clearer picture. That's why we hold off. We. We do the top 100 right after. Right after the combine, give it a few days, kind of compute everything, and then we give it another week for free agency week plus so that we know where. I used to do a mock draft right after the combine. It drove me crazy because you literally was not worth the money that you printed it on. Because. Except.
- [47:49]
Mitch
Except it was because it got a billion clicks. You know what I mean? Like, you're right.
- [47:53]
McShay
Right. Everyone wanted to read it. But my least favorite part is then graphics with like, they. For ESPN, they would put up graphics of McShay's mock 2.0 or 3.0 has this. This player going here and. And they would reference it for like five, four weeks until I had my next mock drop. Right. And I'm like, would you take that graphic down? I don't have Sequan Barkley going to. So. And so they just brought in a free agent running, but, you know, like. So.
- [48:17]
Mitch
Right.
- [48:18]
McShay
So anyway, ptsd, let's get to the part that I'm most excited about. Men. And, and, and I, I came up with this concept because we've spent a lot of time talking about the Sunny styles, the Arvell Reese's, the Jeremiah, loves the, you know, even like the Dylan Theenamans and his workout and all this. A lot of time was spent on the top players in the draft at the combine, and rightfully so, because a lot of those guys worked out and they worked out really well. And then we've talked about a lot of, like, the workout warrior guys, you know, who moved up, and that's great too. But a clearer picture is starting to be presented to you and I through film study and grinding this thing out. And it's not even a my guy thing, but. But it is guys that we just know we're going to not go in the first round, but we also just know that they're going to wind up making an impact and we're excited about these players for day two. Okay, I'm going to Give you a list of the players because that's what we're going to do here and we're going to throw up a graphic and then we're going to break down why those guys are there for me. Oh, let's start with Mitch. For mensch, it's Kaden McDonald, interior defensive line for Ohio State. Jeremy Bernard. Who men stole from me from Alabama wide receiver. That's fair. I steal a couple of his guys. He felt me not Max Player's an
- [49:37]
Mitch
old guy of mine.
- [49:39]
McShay
Enough strength in Jeremy recently and so he's going to take him from you. You don't want him, fine. Another, it's not even trash treasure, but you know what I mean. And Georgia State wide receiver Ted Hurst, who's had one of the best pre draft processes so far of anyone in this class. For me it's Illinois edge Gabe Yakis, Pittsburgh linebacker Kyle Lewis, Ohio State tight end Max Claire.
- [50:01]
Mitch
I got a bunch of the voice,
- [50:03]
McShay
a bunch of millionaire tough guys. All right, you start out. Where do you start out on the top of your list and go through one, we'll go one and one back and forth.
- [50:12]
Mitch
I went, I, I will just say this. I'm gonna start with Kaden McDonald from Ohio State. I went off your top hundred board. I actually have him higher on my board and I think he's worth a late first round pick. I, I see what you're saying though. I could see him getting in the second, but this is what I'll say about him. Fifth on the team with 65 tackles. Six foot two, 326 pounds. He's got short arms, but when you watch him on tape, powerful upper body, quick hands, quick feet, he slips box. He gets into the backfield. Nine tackles for loss. So this guy locates the ball and gets to the ball carrier. Makes playing the run game. On top of that, he can be a space eater. He can occupy two blocks without giving up a lot of ground, which allows those super talented Ohio State linebackers to fly around and like make plays. He's an outstanding run defender. There's nothing in around that. No, he's only had three sacks sacks last year. Okay, And I get it. I don't think he's ever going to be an elite interior pass rusher. But I do think he can push the pocket. I think he can affect the quarterback. He has some short area burst.
- [51:09]
McShay
This kid's such a, this guy's such
- [51:10]
Mitch
a good athlete that he carried the ball 70 times, 77 times or 409 yards. In high school they Were using him as a running back. He also had 46 sacks in high school. He didn't run at the combine. I think he's a better athlete than people realize, man. Give me Kaden McDonald in the second round and I know I'm getting a player.
- [51:29]
McShay
Yeah, I, I, I'm a believer in him, man. And I think that because he makes plays, he is a difference maker. And I, and I see more meat on the bone for him as a pass rusher. I really do.
- [51:39]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [51:39]
McShay
Some of these guys you see, you're like, I don't know, I don't, I think we're kind of seeing what, what it's going to be with Kaden. I actually see some more. I'll stick with the defensive line. Gabe Akkis, I think I said, yeah, it's Akis. Okay. Look at this guy's hands in the Senior bowl, right? Working them bags. He's just NFL built, man. He's six four, he's 260 pounds, 33 inch arm length, 10 inch hands. He's got heavy slash like explosive hands. Upper body power is there, the motor is there. Excuse me. He was utilized in different ways and I always didn't always love the way he was utilized at times but my gosh, was he a difference maker. 16.8% pass rush win rate, 27 sacks over 50 career games in Illinois. Okay. He's one of those like bully physical, like get your hands inside and just, and then when, when he gets inside, controls locates and then chases like out of his mind. These guys don't fail. Okay. JTT last year was kind of one of those guys. I think this guy's got a little bit more, I don't think he's, this guy's got some more juice in him. But then when you're built like that, you've multi year starter, impact player, interview process like sensational. He's everything you want. So the floor is so high with Gabe Akis and it's interesting because you, when you talk in the media, it's all the other guys. And I find myself asking this question after the Senior bowl and conversations at the combine, why does Akis, his name keep coming up like he's one of those guys. And then I went back and watched his tape and I'm like, because he's kind of one of those guys. Because yeah, the ceiling's higher for Keldrick Falk and I like him more than a lot of people do. And the explosiveness is there with Cash's Howell. The arm length isn't and you got all those concerns and, and you got Zion Young, who I love, who I think is vastly under it. But you've got all these edge rushers in this class. But when I talk to people in the league, his name is always like, there's obviously Arvell Reese at the top and David Bailey, but after the. And Reuben Bain, but after that, the name that comes up the most in these conversations with people in the league is Gabe Akis. And so he can. He's got inside versatility, that power in the upper body. I just think Akis is. Maybe it's top 40, maybe it's top 45 picks. He comes in the league, he's ready to go. And I just think he's going to be a high impact player where we're, we look back in like 20, 28, we're like, how the hell did Akis get to pick 43? You know what I mean?
- [54:28]
Mitch
I'm so with you. I just moved, I moved him up to 44th of my board just recently. It's funny, like, same exact range as you. We're gonna go Jeremy Bernard, let's get into it, right?
- [54:37]
McShay
Yeah.
- [54:38]
Mitch
You know what? You know what I love about his game? It's boring. It's boring.
- [54:43]
McShay
Well, so well put.
- [54:45]
Mitch
And I mean in the best way. Like, all he does is get open, catch the ball, knife up field, make a guy miss and get what he can. You know, he tracks the deep ball well. He's not a burner. He ran a 448 at the combine, but everyone's else is like, oh, look at all these four, three guys. Look at all that. 448 is good. Good speed, man, that's a good time. He tracks the ball well. He's going to make the occasional play downfield, but I also know he's going to get open underneath because he's got all that spatial awareness that we've talked about recently with receivers. Splits time between the slot and playing on the outside. So he's a versatile guy that you can move around. Also get him involved in the running game. He did. He returned kicks and punts earlier in his career. He's a versatile guy that you can use in a number of different ways. We're looking at all these guys with all this upside and you look at Bernard's workout and it was, you know, the, I think the vertical jump was pretty underwhelming and the 40 time was good but not great. And he did have the quickest 3 cone of all the receivers, which is nice. But it for me, the combine, a lot of it's like, yeah, we want to know who these guys are who have a ton of upside. So we can start targeting some of those guys in the middle to later rounds. But the guys that you already like, that you love on tape, you're looking for them to check some boxes and make sure there's no real red flags there. I'm pretty happy with the workout. I love the tape. He led Alabama receptions the past two years. Give me Jeremy Bernard. I, I, I know. I, I am very confident that I'm gonna get a solid number two receiver with that frame at 61206. He just, he doesn't wow you in any of these areas, but he just checks box.
- [56:08]
McShay
It sounds like, it sounds like you're talking to me about a mecca buka a year ago.
- [56:15]
Mitch
I think they're very similar, to be honest.
- [56:16]
McShay
You know what I mean?
- [56:17]
Mitch
I do.
- [56:19]
McShay
NFL ready, reliable, where he's supposed to be. Not gonna like break an ankle, but he is gonna catch the ball with that, with that six, whatever, three cone. And he's got the body control, he's got the vision, he's got enough shiftiness and he's got a fast accelerator to go make the first guy miss and then pick up 4 or 5 after and all of a sudden a 5 yard is it turns to 12 and like that stuff adds up. I, I totally agree.
- [56:45]
Mitch
Yeah. One of the quicker 10 yard splits by the way. The fifth, the fifth best out of the wide receivers. So.
- [56:50]
McShay
Yeah, so. So as a guy that plays in the slot and, and outside gives you that versatility. Give me two things. Give me a guy with the body control to kind of create and make that first guy miss but also to, to go, you know.
- [57:04]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [57:07]
McShay
Kyle Lewis and my love affair with Kyle started it at the Senior Bowl. Right. Talk of him, is he going to move to safety? Can he, Is he big enough to play linebacker? I don't care. Because he's arguably the most instinctive player in this entire draft on the defensive side of the football. And he's just a guy who's going to turn the ball over. He's got range all over. He loves the game. He has instincts for the game that very few have. He's 6 foot 220 pounds, average arm length, average handspan. Overshadowed throughout the combine at the by by Styles and Reese and some of those other guys that had monster workouts. But you know what? He did mention that I don't feel like anyone actually talked about. He ran a 6-973 cone which only two linebackers ran sub 7 seconds, three cones and he was one of the two. He had a 39 and a half inch vertical jump which was fourth best. And remember we had two like cyborgs and Styles and Reese. Right. Who were jumping like 43 and a half four, you know, like. And then he had a 10, nine broad jump which was second. Second of all those linebackers. It's 6 foot 220 pounds. Lower body explosion creates power from the ground up. Okay. Oh, and you ran a four, five, three. But we were, we had four, four sixes and all. You know what I mean?
- [58:30]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [58:31]
McShay
So like this guy who. It's like, is he safety? Is he big enough to like, I don't care and guys in the league don't care. He's an overhang who's might maybe the best cover linebacker in the class. He can play zone, he can play man. He can sideline the sideline. He can be your nickel, you know, like, like a dime safety nickel, like dime linebacker nickel. He could just do. He can. You can move them around everywhere. Figure it out. He's going to be a massive impact player.
- [59:03]
Mitch
I agree with you.
- [59:05]
McShay
Schlesinger was longer and like had traits and, and he had the defensive rookie of the year. This guy coming into the league is more proven as a football player and can do a lot of those same things. And yes, he's undersized, so it's going to be a different draft slot. And I'm not saying he's going to be defensive rookie of the year, but I am saying, like, won't shock me if he's in the, if he's in that conversation at the end of 2026.
- [59:29]
Mitch
I hear you. I, I think there's. They're very different players. I think especially is your, your traditional throwback middle linebacker who had an outstanding last year at UCLA but didn't have a lot of production before that. So he's kind of a. That's kind of a different thing to me. But like, I'm with you finally. And I'm the. I'm. You've turned me into the height weight speed guy. I mean, for years just working with you of. It's a height weight speed league bench. Like, you got. You got to check some boxes. And we've had several conversations with decision makers about players. I'm betting on Lewis. I'm with you. I'm betting on Lewis.
- [59:59]
McShay
All right, who's your third one?
- [60:01]
Mitch
Ted Hurst, Georgia State. How about this guy?
- [60:04]
McShay
How about go.
- [60:04]
Mitch
How about playing for one in 11 Georgia State. No one knowing who you are. It doesn't matter that you caught 94 passes and averaged 16.4 yards per per catch over the past two seasons because you play for 1 in 11.
- [60:18]
McShay
I didn't know it was 11 and 11. Oh, God, that's a nugget. I like that.
- [60:23]
Mitch
Yeah. So he goes to the Senior bowl and has an outstanding week. We're like, who is this dude with the six four, 206 pound frame who tracks the ball well and looks smooth, you know, all over the field? Who's this guy? Then he goes the combine, runs a 155, 10 yard split. 4, 4, 2, 40. Best broad jump out of all the receivers at 11, 3. That is a number. That is a number.
- [60:46]
McShay
Yeah.
- [60:46]
Mitch
So let's, let's talk about the tape. You know what I love? I love that he can win at the line of scrimmage. You want to be good in the NFL, you got to win at the line of scrimmage. You got to get off press. You got to have a release package that sets up your routes.
- [60:56]
McShay
We saw some of them just on those Senior bowl clips right there. Jake and Nick getting those, those clips for us. Like you could see and didn't back down to any of those, those powerful cornerbacks.
- [61:06]
Mitch
No. And you don't see it with, with those guys that are that big, that frame.
- [61:11]
McShay
They're just bigger targets.
- [61:12]
Mitch
It's a little easier to get your hands on them. It's a little tougher to get off pressure. I think he does a really good job of it. I think. I like the way he tracks the ball. I like the way he adjusts the ball. If he catches the ball in stride, he's a threat after the catch. He does have shorter arms for his frame, which is interesting. And I think maybe some people want him to be better in 50, 50 situations. I think he's pretty good. I think he's shown that he can make plays in 50, 50 situations. We're talking about a guy who's going to go late second, early third. It's, you know, I get it. Didn't play against very tough competition in college. I, I understand that. I'm taking my, I'm betting on him. I'm taking my chance there.
- [61:47]
McShay
Yeah, I like him too. I'm gonna kind of go opposite of that for my last guy. Max Claire, tight end, Ohio State, proven commodity. Two Big Ten schools. Max Claire is not purposefully, but quietly kind of just flying under the radar. Everyone knows Kenyan Sadiq. He's the tight end one in this class. The debate about where would he be with Colston Loveland versus Tyler Warren last year goes out and runs that, what, four, three, nine, like set some records of the combine and then. And then Eli Stowers comes in and had. We knew he was going to work out. Well, not that well. Blew up the combine from the vertical jumps to the, the broad jump to the, the good, really good 40. It just was absolutely explosive. And then there's this Max Claire guy who coming into the year was kind of considered maybe tight end 1 or 1 1A, you know, 1 1A with Kenyan Sadiq because he was ultra productive at Purdue. And then you go to Ohio State and you think well he's, he's going to get all the national attention. But people kind of forgot we got this Carnell Tate guy who could be the first wide receiver off the board and Jeremiah Smith who, who is a generational talent. So he's third in line for targets with a young quarterback and, and didn't have the production that he had a year, you know, in previous years at, at Purdue, but still like 685 receiving yards in 2024. 4, 4, 48 this past year. His quarterbacks. Right. Or Julian saying completion percentage when Targeting him in 2025 was 78.2%. Now yeah, we had the drop in the. Was the Michigan game or I think
- [63:32]
Mitch
he dropped one of his first target and then he had another one later on, but it was like I remember he dropped.
- [63:38]
McShay
It was right after I thought, oh boy, he's the most important player. Yeah, right. So we remember that. And to be quite honest, he's about 50% on contested, contested throws, contested catch opportunities.
- [63:50]
Mitch
Right, Right.
- [63:52]
McShay
But here's a little treat for you if you're like young and trying to get into scouting, focus on the yards after catch. And I'm not talking about the PFF and the stats. Certainly that can be a guy side. I'm talking about who are guys capable of creating after the catch because there's a lot of big targets, there's a lot of versatile targets. There's a lot of guys who are exposing get down the seam. There's a lot of guys who can catch, you know, in traffic, but there's not many guys at tight end who actually are flexible, fast, athletic enough to create after the catch. That's what this guy does and he's going to be a weapon for a team and he's ready to do it right away and you can. He's an okay blocker. And okay, is better than many, not most, but better than many.
- [64:38]
Mitch
Has the frame to get bigger and stronger. He's got to do that, but he has the frame to do it and
- [64:43]
McShay
he'll work at it. And so, like, there's, there's a foundation there for the blocking, but he's really effective when you, when you flex him out and he can go create some mismatches. He's a chess piece. Don't get confused by like the, the frame and the helmet and the Purdue and the Ohio State. Like, this guy's actually really athletic. I think you don't get Sadiq in round one or Stowers somewhere in the top 50, 40, whatever. It's going to be because of the workout and the explosiveness and the traits. I think a team's going to wind up maybe with the tight end that is the most ready to produce as a rookie and comes in in shock. Like, don't be surprised if he has the most receiving yards of the tight ends at the end of 2026. And I think Max Claire is going to be an absolute value in round two. All right, we've gone long. My gosh, we got a lot to unpack. Like, the second I, the second we say goodbye, it's right back. Like, what, what has happened while we've been talking? If we miss something breaking, we'll get to it on Wednesday. We, I mean, it's a fun week because there's so much to sort out and so many implications for the NFL draft. We're back on Wednesday and then Friday after that. So.
- [65:49]
Mitch
Yeah.
- [65:50]
McShay
Gear up, Manchester. Five stars, brother.
- [65:54]
Mitch
Thanks, man.
- [65:56]
McShay
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