From Death Valley to the Draft: Why Clemson’s Defense Could Make History in 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show – "From Death Valley to the Draft: Why Clemson’s Defense Could Make History in 2025"

Release Date: July 7, 2025

In this compelling episode of The McShay Show, NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay delves deep into Clemson University's formidable defensive unit and explores its potential impact on the 2025 NFL Draft. Hosted by The Ringer, McShay offers an insightful analysis, backed by detailed evaluations of key players, historical context, and mock draft projections.

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1. Introduction to Clemson’s Defensive Resurgence

Todd McShay opens the discussion by addressing the recent resurgence of Clemson’s defense, highlighting the unexpected prominence of the "bright orange paw" logo on his draft board—a symbol signifying Clemson talent. He emphasizes the shift in perception among fans and analysts, stating:

“It wasn't a coincidence we're wearing Clemson hats... we have to have a draft show in the preseason.” [01:02]

This sets the stage for a comprehensive examination of Clemson's defensive prowess and its implications for the upcoming NFL Draft.

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2. Historical Context: The 2018 Clemson Defensive Powerhouse

McShay reminisces about Clemson's historic 2018 season, which featured an undefeated 15-0 record and a dominant performance against Alabama in the CFP National Championship with a score of 44-16. He notes:

“They held eight teams to 10 points or fewer and allowed the fewest points per game in the nation.” [06:53]

This historical benchmark serves as a reference point for evaluating the current defensive lineup, underscoring the legacy and high standards set by Clemson's defense under Coach Dabo Swinney.

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3. Current Clemson Defensive Line Analysis

a. Peter Woods

Peter Woods emerges as a standout player, praised for his versatility and elite run defense capabilities.

“He is an elite run defender already. Anything you want him to do against the run, he can do.” [14:42]

While Woods shows promise in run defense, McShay expresses reservations about his pass-rushing abilities, suggesting potential for growth:

“The group up front is going to be damn good. The secondary is talented, but I want to see more.” [11:03]

b. T.J. Parker

Positioned as a power rusher, T.J. Parker is lauded for his explosive ability to penetrate offensive lines.

“He runs right through those dudes. He does not bend as well as some other guys, but his power translates to the NFL.” [21:32]

McShay highlights Parker’s NFL readiness, comparing his dominance to top-tier defensive linemen like Jarius Sneed.

c. Avion Terrell

Avion Terrell is recognized for his coverage skills and ball-handling prowess. McShay critiques his consistency, particularly in tackling and reacting to play changes:

“He gets caught a few too many times... He doesn't have an above-average tackle.” [37:46]

Despite these flaws, Terrell remains a solid second-round prospect with potential for special teams contributions.

d. Will Helt

A transfer from Purdue, Will Helt is examined as a versatile defensive end with notable size and coverage ability.

“He covers ground way better than I thought he would. He plays like a Titan.” [28:03]

McShay points out Helt’s need for improved leverage and recovery speed but acknowledges his upside as a developing pass rusher.

e. Damonte Capehart

Damonte Capehart is praised for his run defense and ability to control blockers, making him a reliable interior defensive lineman.

“He's got really uniquely fast eyes and a good feel for where blockers are coming from.” [41:21]

While Capehart excels in run defense, his pass-rushing capabilities are deemed average, positioning him as a dependable third-round pick.

f. Stefilan Green

As a younger member of the defensive line, Stefilan Green is noted for his high-energy play and potential for growth.

“He's a pup. He's still a younger dude... there’s some things he’s got to do a little bit more.” [44:25]

Green is anticipated to develop further, with McShay predicting a gradual increase in his contributions.

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4. Linebacker and Safety Evaluation

a. Khalil Barnes

Khalil Barnes stands out as a versatile safety with strong ball skills and coverage abilities. However, McShay raises concerns about his tackling consistency and physicality:

“He's a great college safety... need to see another level from him next year.” [35:40]

Barnes is projected as a late-round pick, primarily contributing on special teams and as a backup.

b. Wade Wood

Wade Wood is highlighted for his tackling prowess and coverage instincts, though his speed and ability to redirect are questioned.

“He’s a day three prospect who's going to come in and carve out a role as a backup and special teams guy.” [50:35]

McShay underscores Wood's potential for limited but valuable contributions in the NFL.

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5. Comparisons to Other Teams and Coaching Strategies

McShay draws parallels between Clemson’s defense and other dominant programs, emphasizing Clemson’s unique approach under Coach Tom Moore. He notes:

“This is definitely the best roster that Dabo has had since 2018.” [13:17]

McShay commends Clemson’s adaptability and strategic depth, suggesting that their multifaceted defensive schemes will present significant challenges to opposing offenses.

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6. Mock Draft Projections

Throughout the episode, McShay provides mock draft insights, positioning Clemson’s defensive players within expected draft rounds:

• Peter Woods and T.J. Parker are considered top-tier prospects with potential early first-round selections.
• Avion Terrell is seen as a strong second-round candidate.
• Damonte Capehart and Stefilan Green are evaluated for third-round selections.
• Khalil Barnes and Wade Wood are projected as late-round or special teams contributors.

McShay emphasizes the depth and versatility of Clemson’s defensive lineup, predicting that multiple first-round picks could emerge from this group if their development continues as anticipated.

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7. Conclusion: Clemson’s Defensive Future

Todd McShay wraps up the episode by reaffirming his confidence in Clemson’s defensive continuity and potential to make a historic impact in the 2025 NFL Draft. He states:

“This is the year at Clemson, truly. They've waited too long for it, so there's no patience here.” [31:33]

McShay encourages Clemson fans to remain optimistic, highlighting the program’s sustained excellence and the promising trajectory of its defensive players.

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Notable Quotes:

• “The group up front is going to be damn good. The secondary is talented, but I want to see more.” – Mitch [11:03]
• “He runs right through those dudes. He does not bend as well as some other guys, but his power translates to the NFL.” – Mitch [21:32]
• “He’s a day three prospect who's going to come in and carve out a role as a backup and special teams guy.” – Mitch [50:35]
• “This is the best roster that Dabo has had since 2018.” – Men [13:17]

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Final Thoughts

Todd McShay’s in-depth analysis on The McShay Show underscores Clemson’s defensive resurgence and its significant implications for the 2025 NFL Draft. By meticulously evaluating each player’s strengths and areas for improvement, McShay provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of Clemson’s defensive dynamics. His mock draft projections highlight the potential for Clemson’s defense to produce multiple high-impact NFL players, solidifying Clemson’s reputation as a powerhouse in college football.

For those interested in full first-round coverage and more detailed mock drafts, McShay directs listeners to subscribe to The McShay Report and join the live discussions available through The Ringer’s platforms.

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Disclaimer: This summary omits advertisements and non-content segments from the original podcast transcript to focus solely on the analytical discussion between Todd McShay and his co-host.

Transcript

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[Mitch]

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[Men]

Yeah, you see us, it's not a coincidence we're wearing Clemson hats. Men didn't like Clemson a year ago. He loves him now. You know why? Because our draft board is littered with bright orange paws. And when we saw that when we first started to put putting together the list, we're like, oh, this Clemson thing, it's a thing this year we said we got to have a draft show in the preseason. Breaking it down, figure out, is it real? Are scouts overrating these players? Are they legitimate? Are the Tigers back from a decade ago? We're going to find out today. 290 days till the NFL draft. Men, you good?

[Mitch]

I'm good.

[Men]

Let's hear that sweet music. Play me that beat, Tuck. Hey, look around me, Mitch.

[Mitch]

The only thing, by the way, by the way, I've always loved Clemson fans. I just thought they deserved better last year. I think they've deserved better recently, to.

[Men]

Be honest with you.

[Mitch]

So I've always been on your side.

[Men]

It's a nice tiptoe out of it. I covered up everything but that. Let me see. Except the spider helmet. I can't do that.

[Mitch]

How many are there?

[Men]

I mean, I get. I get more. So the game. The game is big fans of what we're doing and I'm a big fan of the game because growing up like it was the hat. Well, they've had a resurgence, okay. And. And Mike and Gabe, Gabe from the game sent us some hats. Okay. And I mean, I've got like, it was A box full. You see them all around the. I love the one I'm wearing. But this is the old school. Like, this is like what we grew up, you know. Yep. This is the. And so it's all from the game. And we appreciate that. And that's why I'm. Well, that combined with the fact that we're doing it. Clemson. We did a bunch of quarterbacks. We did. Jeremiah Love. We did. We did. Who else have. We just. Just did last week, the Manning Passing Academy. We did Caleb Downs, the safety from Ohio State. Yep. So. So we. We've been all over the board scouting and getting ready for the season, but you and I noticed we're, you know, looking at some different places in the. In their draft boards. We're putting together our draft board, and there's an awful lot of this bright orange paw everywhere, more so than any other logo, when you're staring at the big, you know, vertical horizontal draft board. Right. And. And we're like, is it this. Is this good? Like, is the talent this good? So I want to. I want to give you a couple things. College football fans and Clemson fans and just fans of the show this team last year, Clemson, who mention was not buying and rightfully so for a long time. It was a young team, both sides of the ball. Okay. It was Club Nick's second year as a starter. Bunch of freshman sophomore receivers. Bunch of young, talented, but young. Okay? They come out. They come out against Georgia and. And they're just not ready.

[Mitch]

No, they were not.

[Men]

It was ugly. They. They. But. But eventually Georgia just ran away.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Men]

But they kept getting better. They won 12 of their last 14 games. They went on to win the ACC championship against SMU. That got them in. And by the way, 12 of the 14, the one loss was against Louisville and with Tyler Shuck and. And that crew. And the other loss, though, was against a smoldering hot South Carolina team, state rival, and it was by three points.

[Mitch]

And they were driving late. Yeah, that was a great game.

[Men]

It was a great game. Wasn't pretty, but it was a great game. So young team getting better every week. And so I just. I. There weren't a ton of draft prospects from Clemson. And also not looking at it from a lens of the 2025 draft, not 2026, we start to put together the. The way to early mock draft, and I'm like, For the top 10 players are from Clemson or something like that. You're crazy. And so I started like, you and I were talking, like, early on, we were talking about what Are we going to do this summer? Like, well, one of these shows is going to be about Clemson dabos. Dabos go, today's the day. So I started thinking as we're doing this, before I even put in the tape, I'm like, what's the best roster I can remember? Clemson football. Best roster I can remember.

[Mitch]

And it's probably Clemson roster.

[Men]

Okay, sorry, yeah, no, that would have been Miami 2001. Yeah. USC from. But no, I'm talking in the history of Clemson because I know during my lifetime the best roster of NFL talent. It happened during my lifetime because prior to that they didn't have this level of talent. That's what Dabo Sweeney's done in this program has elevated to. I went back and looked at some of the, my, you know, the draft notes and the history and all that. 2018 was the, the best of. Of my lifetime and probably who's on that team. They went 15, 0. 2018 team. First team since night, since 1897 for Clemson to achieve that feat. Undefeated. They routed a tal. Really talented, obviously. Alabama team 44 to 16 in the CFP National Championship that year.

[Mitch]

Did they lose to him the year before? Did they lose to Alabama the year before? Yes.

[Men]

Oh, yes. It was that revenge game. The defense that year held eight teams to 10 points or fewer and allowed the fewest points per game in the nation. Dudes, we're focus. We've talked a lot about Club Nick. We got. There's some offensive guys, there's a couple offensive linemen, there's a couple wide receivers and we'll get to that throughout the year. This is about like the defense primarily today. Okay. And so you look back and they had a bunch of NFL draft picks. Seven first rounders over the next three years from that roster. Okay. And three defensive linemen, if you remember correctly, in 2019. Because it was a 2018 season that April in 2019, it was the NFL draft. Cleveland Farrell went surprisingly number four to the Raiders. Mike Mayox, first pick, Christian Wilkins, 13th overall.

[Mitch]

Little head shake on that one. Go ahead.

[Men]

To the Dolphins and then Dexter Lawrence to the Giants. We had to redraft that Dexter would be a top one or two pick from that draft. I don't remember who exactly was in it above, above Cleveland, the first three picks. But they also had Trayvon Mullen, defensive back. They had Austin Bryant, the other edge. And then Renfro went in the fifth round. But again in 2020, Isaiah Simmons from that defense went okay. AJ Terrell from that defense went all right. Those, those guys Both went in the first round and then it was Trevor Lawrence and ETN from from that draft. It was all, all offensive guys. But those next two years it was linebacker, defensive back. Then Tanner Tanner Moose Muse went defensive back. Kayvon Wallace went defensive back. So like all these defensive players in the two year span after and a lot of, a lot of talent. Seven, seven first rounders from that roster went the next three drafts. Okay, so it gets me to where we are today and I've got men. Let me just count it up. Starting with Peter woods. Then is he your top guy? Yes. And he was jump coming into this and he definitively is now.

[Mitch]

Interesting.

[Men]

Number two is T.J. parker was number two coming into this. Definitively is now then we could talk about how things might shake up. But after those two guys on the defensive line, Avion Terrell, cornerback Damonte Cape heart defensive tackle, interior defensive lineman. Another interior defensive lineman, Stefilan Green also had Khalil Barnes the free safety, number seven, Wade Wood as who was 17 last year but is nine now this upcoming year and Will Helt who's a transfer from Purdue. So those are the guys I studied all legitimate NFL draft prospects all from all from the same defense. So that's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 guys.

[Mitch]

And I are K part in Wood as the only guys who have to come out this year. I think the rest of them can return. It's a young, it's still a young.

[Men]

Defense, still a young group. I. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think.

[Mitch]

I think that's right. But keep in mind these, a lot of these guys are young.

[Men]

Yeah. So here we are then we decided I wanted you to give me a line or two. Big picture, what your expectation was and don't get into details. Give me a quick summary. If you had to quickly walk into the GM's office and the GM's like, hey, are they as talented on the defensive side as all the reports were getting in from these different places before you watched your tape, now that you've watched your tape on this unit, are they as good, are they better or are they a little overhyped? Let's start with that.

[Mitch]

I would say from a college standpoint, they're as good as advertised. It's gonna be a really good, potentially great college defense if it all comes together for them. In terms of the, the draft prospects, I'd have to go line by line. I will say that that group up front is going to be damn good. The group up front is Going to be damn good. The. The secondary is talented, but I want to see more. I think they need to take the next step is kind of how I put it and that. And then to talk about the one linebacker, Wood, as. I really like him. I think he's gonna be a really good college player. I'm not sure that he's going to be a great pro.

[Men]

I think the first two have a chance to be better than advertised. Okay. Woods and Parker, I agree with you.

[Mitch]

Hold on. They're advertised. Hold on. What did you have them as advertised as? Because I had them as advertised as potential early first round picks. So how are we getting better than advertise with those two? Now you're making it look like I don't like these guys and I'm not going to stand. I'm not going to stand for it with my.

[Men]

Because I got a ch. I think they both have a chance to be great and I think woods has got a chance to be like unbelievable.

[Mitch]

I agree with you. I actually like Parker more than Woods.

[Men]

Okay. And I can't. I wouldn't even be that mad. But I think for me they were already advertised. I. I don't dis. I don't disagree with you. I think. And we'll get into all of them right now, but I don't. I think the rest of the defense. It's exactly what you said. The rest of the defense is really talented. Damn good college team maybe. And I don't even want to say overrated because I don't think people are like, oh, this guy should be a first round or second round. But in talking to people who's more like sec, you know, a few more day two guys and early day threes, I think there's a big gap between the top two or three and the rest of the group. But like to have all of these guys now coming back for another year or transferring in with the experience they have on one defense and not to mention the offensive line, that's going to be better. The wide receivers are better. We talked about in the Manning passing academy review club. Nick's going to be better.

[Mitch]

Could be better running back there. I mean they are. Yeah. This is a team that's.

[Men]

This is definitely the best roster that Dabo has had since 19 since. Sorry, 2018. 2018. And that now, like we're getting older. That's. That's seven years ago and he's doing it. I just had conversations at the Manning passing academy with some people. Right. Some of us old dogs are like, didn't know if he could do it, but good on him. He's doing it his way.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Men]

Because there are a lot of people I more than. There are supporters. More people out there are like, like Clemson's done, Dabo's done. Not adjusting the times, not adapting. Can't win like that. The game has changed.

[Mitch]

Saban swimming upstream.

[Men]

Saban said goodbye. Urban's all set. Harbaughs to the NFL. Guys are like fleeing from this madness and nonsense. He's swimming way upstream again. When like I live on the, like by the ocean, I see like the tide. When the tide comes roaring in versus that trickle. He's like. And all of a sudden he got out in the clear, calm water and he's like, told you I could get here. Yeah, here I am. All right. Peter woods, what'd you think?

[Mitch]

Versatile player, plays outside, in, inside for them. I think he's an elite run defender already. I think that he is. There's anything you want him to do against the run he can do. He can set the edge. He's tough in the middle. I think he is just scratching the surface in terms of pass rush, but has the potential to be really good there. I gave him a two in pass rush. I gave him a one in run defense. So if you're looking at our skill sets. So I think he's already an elite run defender. I think he's not yet there as a pass rusher and I think that's what separates him and Parker is that I think Parker's better at getting into the quarterback and that's why I have Parker slightly ahead.

[Men]

The thing I liked about Woods, I mean a lot of things, he legitimately can play all along the line. Yes.

[Mitch]

In certain, in certain roles. Listen, he is not gonna ever be a, a terror coming off the edge, rushing the passer. He does not have that closing speed. He's athletic. But he's athletic enough to play out there.

[Men]

Right.

[Mitch]

Occasionally he can do it. He. I want to see him play inside more. That's where he's going to make his living. That's where he's going to be great.

[Men]

I don't disagree. I don't.

[Mitch]

He can do it. But like, what are we saying there? Like, I want him to be inside. I want him to wreak havoc and that's. I want him to really hone that craft and get great at that.

[Men]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying it's interesting seeing a 315 pounder, six foot three who can be a terror as a one technique and a three technique and a five technique. Actually not just rush off the edge with this. Stand up, outside rush, outside edge, rusher, stand up. Don't see that often and do it effectively. And yeah, not refined yet and all that stuff. But like flashes though. Damn good body lean, body lean, rip.

[Mitch]

Slap flashes with those hands. Yep.

[Men]

And his feet are as quick as his head. He's not long speed. Obviously he's 315. But I, I promise you, when I put on the tape of Parker after, even though I watch the same defense I went, I want, I watched them individually.

[Mitch]

Same here.

[Men]

When I put on Parker's tape, it took a little bit of adjusting because Parker is taller, long straight line power. But I actually thought the 315 pounder in some ways had a little bit more like burst suddenness. Like interesting short area. Quicks is the word I'm trying to use. I thought he had lightning quick hands. Shouldn't move this well. Sudden sudden for his and be this sudden for his size. The body lean impressed me. Feet are as quick as hands. Plays his ass off too, I should note. 4400 snaps. So I went back and looked just to double check and make sure. It seemed light. It wasn't like egregiously light. And a couple guys we'll get to in a little bit or egregiously light. They got depth, they're utilizing it. They're playing down the south. When you. Here's a trick that you learn early in a scouting career and even earlier as a coach, the big guys don't recover. So as they're younger and they're building up their stamina and all that. And it's not a matter like his efforts. Awesome. He plays his tail off. They're protecting him from himself so that it's kind of like Connor does with me in this show sometimes. Maybe take July off and calm down, big fella. For them. It's like if we, if we let him go play 25, 30 snaps in the first half or first, you know, two and a half quarters, he might not get us what we need late in the game. And so he had 400 snaps. I went back and checked Mason Graham last year, 528 snaps, which is a good number. A.B. abdul Carter. I looked at, you know, interior and the top edge. Abdul Carter played 734 snaps just for comparison purposes. So it's light. It's not egregious, but it's light. I think like you said, refinement as a three technique. His power, hand quickness, foot quickness, short area Is and like the lean he has and the flexibility he has at that size, I think make him potentially rare.

[Mitch]

Three sacks and two seasons.

[Men]

I have three and a half sacks last year. Did I read the wrong thing?

[Mitch]

Well, he had all three last year, but he played as a freshman too and he had three. Well, I have three. So we'll say three and a half if you want. Which isn't terrible for an interior defensive line, but it's not lighting the world on fire either. Again, the tape's better than the production. I get all of what you're saying.

[Men]

Well, he's probably not my home as a pass rusher when he's utilized as a stand up outside rusher. Not gonna get home. It affected the quarterback a ton. That's a long way for 315 pounds to go as a stand up outside backer essentially. Or an edge. Stand up edge.

[Mitch]

Yeah, that's what I wrote my, I wrote my notes. There is another gear for him as a pass rusher or another level. He just hasn't reached it yet. He will. I firmly believe that. And I won't surprise me if six months from now I'm sitting up here and be like, yeah, woods did what I thought he might do, which is, you know, move past every other defensive lineman in this draft because he's, he's reached that other level. I just don't see it quite yet. I don't think he's quite there yet.

[Men]

Okay.

[Mitch]

Whereas with. Can we get into. Can we transition Parker here?

[Men]

Take it yourself.

[Mitch]

So listen, I'm not comparing him to either one of these two players who are, you know, one was just an early first round draft pick and the other one is a stud in Jared Verse. But he is. TJ Parker is more Jared Verse than Abdul Carter. Right. He is more powerful. Everything about him is power. Throwing the Florida State game, who runs right through the face of an offensive guard. Throwing the Virginia Tech game, he runs right through the face of a Virginia Tech offensive tackle.

[Men]

He is a, he is a power rusher.

[Mitch]

And I'm not talking about, oh like he kind of the, he got the offensive lineman off, off balance or the offensive lineman got his, his feet hooked up or crossed over. Whatever. He ran right through those dudes. See you later. No problem. And he gets to the top of his rush. He does a good job of shooting his hands, getting to the top of his rush and then having the power and length to get off the block at the top of the rush. He does not bend as well as some other guys. He doesn't have that elite bend. I don't think he closes as well as some other guys. But he, because of that power he can get after the quarterback and I love that about his game.

[Men]

And power translates to the NFL as we've learned the hard way. And over time he looks every bit.

[Mitch]

Of the 265 he's listed at. I mean he looks like a NFL ready defensive lineman and he played an.

[Men]

First round number of snaps for a guy who's your guy. 640 snaps. Okay. 63265. Did you say long arms? Did you say that I was number. Yeah, long. He looks like long arms for 63 frame. 19 and a half tackles for loss, 11 sacks, six on the team with 57 tackles. Which says a lot from an edge. The speed, the powers to me and just the power and the length and the locking out. But I put in my notes. It's interesting. Like there was one play against the Georgia right tackle. You mentioned the play. Florida State right guard.

[Mitch]

Yeah. So he's inside outside too by the way. He can, he's like, he's one of those guys you're gonna kick in. I think a fair amount.

[Men]

I, I wrote that here. Flashes is a three technique on some obvious passing downs. And those flashes were intriguing to me is what I wr.

[Mitch]

He's an inside guy in the NASCAR package. He's not going to play there. Yeah.

[Men]

I'm just saying some flashes and like it would. Yeah, it was interesting because. Because of what he did on the interior sometimes like really. And normally the, the edge guys come in the interior and they cause fits with some of the quickness and the change of direction. He was just like. And plowing. But then Virginia, the left tackle. There was a play, three of them. And I'm watching games like Georgia, fsu, Virginia, Virginia Tech.

[Mitch]

It was Virginia.

[Men]

Yeah. Eva. Yeah. And then, and then let me just say this. I bet you, I bet you here we are in July. I bet you there's still a night or two every month or number 77 from PIT wakes up in a cold sweat thinking about number three coming off the edge. That was a nightmare game. I mean he like every play it felt like he was doing something to him.

[Mitch]

And he's like the, you know pitchers, you know power pitchers, they don't get guys to buckle their knees with that great off speed stuff. He doesn't, Parker doesn't have a lot of off speed. He's not going to get you to buckle. But he will sneak that. He doesn't have that great change of direction, but he will sneak in that, you know that, that two seamer that moves a little bit on you and he does that with offensive tackles where he can just sneak inside a little bit. He gets guys to come out outside.

[Men]

Or his push, pull right.

[Mitch]

He set it, he has his go to and it's damn good power. It's power, it's damn good. And then every once in a while he's not. It's. You're getting forcing, forcing, forcing. And all of a sudden you get this little two seamer that you haven't seen yet and that's where you sneak.

[Men]

As a, as a former offensive tackle, you know, I'm, I'm not super fast, I'm not super twitchy, but I'm going to. But I've watched. You've watched, you have watched the previous tapes. You watched me, you know, just barrel over the right tackle for Georgia, the right guard for Florida State, the whole thing against Pitt, and then the Virginia left tackle. You've, from every angle you've beaten a guy into inside, right side, left side, you have plowed a guy. What are you going to do preparing to come into this game if I'm that power rusher versus me?

[Mitch]

Well, there's two things. One is the jump set, I think is effective in that situation because you don't want that guy to build any kind of momentum. So when you see him in a Y9, you're like, oh, because now he's got a Runway to run into you. But if you're seeing him in a closer alignment, you're thinking, I'm going to jump set, which is to be aggressive, almost like a play action set because you don't want him to build any momentum. The concern there is he's long and athletic enough to slip you if he sees that coming. So that, that's an issue for you. The other thing you can do is you can try and pull the rug out from under him. If you start see him start to lean with too much forward lean, which is you kind of pull your hands back and try to knock him down. He got caught like that a couple of times. But the reality is again, what I'm saying is he has that go to, but because of his ability to mix it up a little bit, you're in trouble, man.

[Men]

You have got sinking in though. You're not worried about him getting around you.

[Mitch]

No, but you've got to be talent. You got to have a certain level of talent to match up with that kid. I'm telling you, like I get it you don't need to kick out. Why, like, with some of these other guys, you can really sink your hips and dig in. But there's things he can do to counter that, too.

[Men]

But that's my point. Like, yeah, like, the number one thought is he's not going to beat me with power. So I gotta. I gotta sink in and I gotta, like, I gotta be ready for a. A train coming at me.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Men]

And then. So when. When he goes to do that and then he does the push, pull. You're expecting force. Now you're. Now you're in the face. Right? Like.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Men]

I love that move. For him, especially for everyone, occasionally mix them all in. But for him, when you, when you win with power that many times, someone was smart to coach. This is going to be a really valuable move for you because everyone's kind of. I'm getting ready, you know, and then all of a sudden they're like. Like this and they're. And you go. It's pretty, pretty cool to watch. I also like that he was gap responsible. He handled his assignments. He knew when he had to chip someone releasing. He set a hard edge. I thought he was, like, active and did a good, good job locating the ball, but understood what he had to do for what his responsibilities were, which isn't always the case.

[Mitch]

He handles tight ends for the most part. The Georgia game, I think one tight end got him, but they have like 50 tight ends. I can't remember which one it was for Georgia, but for the most part, he handles tight ends like you want a power edge to handle tight ends, which is. Thanks for coming out. This is going to be quick work. This is light work for me. You know, he's stacking and shedding those guys. He's. He's slipping those guys.

[Men]

It's.

[Mitch]

Trying to block him with a college tight end is a tough task.

[Men]

Yeah. Can you imagine now with a full off season, a little bit more refinement, add a. Add a move or two, a little bit more time in the weight room, like, maybe like speed foot agility training. He's got a chance to be a.

[Mitch]

I don't, you know, like, I don't know if you want to go there now, but talk about the guy that did this. Brought in who I think is going to be an interesting cat on the other side of him.

[Men]

Yeah. Let's go.

[Mitch]

Who's. Yeah, the. The Purdue kid. Will Helt, right?

[Men]

Yep.

[Mitch]

I was. I looked him up a little bit, did a little bit of background. I'm like, oh, he had five Sacks last year, two of them against Indiana State. Like to see a little bit more production against better, better competition. And. And then I throw on the tape and I'm like, who what is this? He is 6 foot 6. He looks everybody bit of 6 foot 6. He covers ground way better than I thought he would.

[Men]

He was one of the weirder evaluations.

[Mitch]

It doesn't make. Your brain is trying to wrap around like trying to figure out what's happening on tape because he cover. He's actually quick and he covers ground. He doesn't change directions as well. That happens with tall guys.

[Men]

He's a titan. But from changing directions, but on a.

[Mitch]

Straight line, there's some juice. All right. I'm trying to, I'm trying to pump up Clemson fans.

[Men]

No, no, I know, but, but we're also going to be honest. Like he's not great versus the run. He gets sucked inside too much. He gets whacked down. He plays too high because he's six six. Which is.

[Mitch]

Which happens.

[Men]

But then when you go to change direction because you've. Because you've lost discipline, like there's some stuff that's got to be worked out in his game.

[Mitch]

Absolutely.

[Men]

Got to play with better leverage. He's got to be more like they're not going to put up with that at Clemson. Now watch. You got a superstar in Parker and I just told you all the discipline and the gap assignments and all the things that he does. Like there's going to have to be a mindset shift and you've got to play with a lot more attention to detail. And I think he's still kind of working through his hands and all those sorts of things. But when you see him with those long ass arms and the length to keep guys off his pads and then you see him when they drop him, I thought it was because one of like one of the early key plays in the tape that I was studying had him dropping. I'm like, like, quick note. I'm like, kind of look good.

[Mitch]

Kind of look good.

[Men]

But that was probably an aberration. Like, you know, whatever. And then I saw it like over and over in tape. I'm like, oh, this dude drops.

[Mitch]

There was like 97 drops to look at in the, in the breakdowns.

[Men]

Eddie's got good instincts and weirdly, while he can't redirect, he's kind of shifty when he's like opening his hips a little bit. Covers a lot of ground. Pain in the ass to throw around. Yeah, yeah, Quarterback. It's like, what do I like, do I try to fly it by his ear because he's not used to it or, or do I have to actually go up, you know, like I was.

[Mitch]

You could unlock that upside as a pass rusher. I know that the dropping's great, but if you unlock that upside as pass rusher and you have woods now on the inside and you have, you know, Parker going inside, outside, the, the new defense coordinator Tom Moore is going to have, he can play the matchup game all day. When you're walking into whatever game and be like, oh, your offensive guard's not good with power, we're going to use this guy or this, this offense tackle is more athletic, but can't sit, can't sink, has no stand in his pants. Well, I got an answer for you. Like, here's this guy's going to come. There's a lot of different things they can do with that group. And again, I know he only had five sacks. I know that he's got to unlock some stuff. I, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the fact that he hasn't come close to reaching his potential. But this kid has got some tools. Some tools. And if they can get the best out of them, watch out. Because now you're, now you're starting to play the game of who are we going to give help? Where's, where's, where are we going to provide help, all that stuff. And you're going to see some simulated pressures for him from More. You're going to see guys, you know, dropping and guys, it's going to be a nightmare for protection schemes.

[Men]

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I think he's right. Now, if you drive.

[Mitch]

I said more. It's Allen, by the way. Sorry.

[Men]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think coming in from Penn State, right?

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Men]

I mean, they're not messing around. This is, this is the year at Clemson, truly. Yeah, this is the year. And in their minds, they've waited entirely too long for it, you know, so, like, there's no patience here. He played. I'm going through the snaps only with the defensive lineman just because, like, I think it's actually important. Played 726 snaps last year. So now you got two edges who have got like over 1400 snaps from a year, year ago. They can be on the field a lot. We can move them around. We want to bring in a young pup who's an edge rusher. We can move them inside, we can drop this guy like you were saying. And they've got depth along the interior. We'll get to that. In a minute. But you and I agree on him. Like I wrote, there's talent there, but it's got to really be unlocked. To me, he's a day three guy right now, but I see. I see potential.

[Mitch]

And he could go to the combine to be a day two guy if he tests anywhere like I think he could based on how he moves.

[Men]

So before we get back to the the couple other interior defensive linemen, Cape.

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[Men]

I do want to take. I want to get to Avion Terrell because. And he was 20 last year. Jersey number. Now he's switching to eight this year. Six on the team with 58 tackles, 12 pass breakups, two interceptions last year. 5, 11, 180. I want to get to him because coming in there was kind of the deal. But I didn't know there was as big a gap. I actually think there's, it's the defect top two defensive lineman that we just talked about. Right. Woods and Parker. Then I think there's a gap and then I think it's Terrell. But then I honestly, I think there's a significant gap with the rest of these guys. I think Terrell is a day two player right now. Some people might have them. I had him late in the first round. My mock probably wouldn't put him in there right now after I got through the whole class, but he wouldn't. But like I'd have him in the second round if I did a two round mock.

[Mitch]

I, I gave him a third round grade.

[Men]

That's fine. But I'm saying like so let's, let's get into him because I wanted to be clear. If you're a Clemson fan, you're taking the time to watch the show. I want it to be clear like you got two absolute dogs and they're up front. You got a damn good corner. And we're talking about those three guys to me are first second day players. The first two.

[Mitch]

Right. We're talking top 100 players.

[Men]

Top hundred players. The first two being many. Maybe if, if they elevate top 10 players.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Men]

Which is wild. That's 2018 for Clemson. Right?

[Mitch]

Right.

[Men]

But Terrell, like I like him a lot but I see the flaws. Okay. Yes. Really good in off coverage. I thought like when breaking in front of him can explode out of his pedal. Really can. Good body control around the ball for the most part. I really liked him driving on the ball. I think he's, he's athletically like quick and sudden and all those things really good. I think he's got easy speed and I preach it a lot as a receiver and a corner. There's a difference between yeah, he's 43 but that he's an easy 43 or 44 or whatever it is. Easy speed is critical because when the ball is in the air and you got to, if you're recovering, if you're a corner, it allows you instead like to be going this fast and under control at the same time and your eyes not bouncing and every. There's a difference and he's got easy speed in my opinion. I actually weirdly enough, because he's kind of. He's undersized. Not like vastly, but he's light. He's light. He's 180, he's light. He's got a little stick to him, a little pop. He. I actually think he's a good. In the day and age, nobody's tackling well. It's kind of a good form tackler. The problem is he gets there and wraps up and sometimes he's got to hold on for the cavalry to come charging in because he can't finish him off.

[Mitch]

I struggled with the we do a run defense grade for defensive backs. I struggled with that because I saw that and then there was other times and I thought this was true of a lot of his tape was a little up and down. I saw what you're seeing. I mean the tackle numbers are good and he will come up and pop guys. He will come up and square up when he's the force defender and he has contained. He does a good job with that. And then there's other times where I don't think he takes a good angle or he'll fall off the tackle. And I'm like. And he missed a few too many for me. I didn't think he was an above average tackle. He missed a few too many for me.

[Men]

I thought he had good. Yeah, yes. I thought he had good form and I think he, he shows some like pop at times when he gets you right. But it was, yeah, it was too inconsistent.

[Mitch]

He plays with a lot of emotion, man, he, he likes to chirp. You can see him. Yeah, I kind of like too.

[Men]

I just think he's still working on some of his technique. The thing that jumped out to me, he got in trouble a handful of times when he got flipped flat footed at the top of his pedal. When he knows it. No, like entrusts it. He gets in and out of that pedal and he shot out of like, like a missile. Right. But there were times where there was indecision at the top of his pedal because he, the receiver hadn't yet declared at the top of his break. At the top of it. Sorry, declared his break angle, if you will, at the top of his stem. And so I. A couple times he got beat when that happened. And then there were a couple times when a receiver is working inside and it would maybe scramble rules or something like that, cutting back to the outside or back here. And like he lost his footing on one time. He didn't recover the like he just as smooth and easy moving as he is. If there's a sharp direction change, he kind of has to gather a little bit, which is. I don't know. There was a lot to kind of.

[Mitch]

Double moves give him some problems. Yeah, yeah.

[Men]

And I go ahead.

[Mitch]

My biggest concern. And he had seven. I think he was flagged seven times last year and I think three of them were in the Texas game. I think that he. And I think he gets away with some stuff. On one hand. You love how competitive he is. I think he's very competitive. Impress. He's one of those guys who quote, unquote, plays bigger than their size. I think he's tough, he's strong, he's physical. I think he's really good in press. But there's you. There's times where he just does things where it's like, you don't have to do that. He will use that. You know, he'll kind of put his hand on the back of receiver or on the hip of receiver when he doesn't need to, when he's in good position or he'll be downfield. And I don't think he panics. I think that's unfair. But he just gets grabby and he starts pushing guys around and he's. It's. And it's. To me, it's. You don't need to be doing that. There was too much physicality. He's going to also have to adjust to the rules in the NFL with all the downfield contact. I felt like he was just too hands on at times. And he doesn't need to do that. That's a part of a game that he's going to have to kind of adjust.

[Men]

I don't disagree, but I think we're in the same neighborhood in terms of there's a top tier, there's a second tier, and then the rest of these guys are damn good college players. There's some upside here. There's some upside there, but they're. I don't want to say, oh, like it's not. It's not like we got six guys that could go in the first two days. It's three. Maybe a fourth could kick up. You know, it's one of those. Which is still. Which is still better than just about, if not every defense in the country this year as it stands right now from the other guys. Let's go through the defensive lineman quickly. We don't need to go into long dissertations. I, I liked 19. I like De Monte K part.

[Mitch]

I like he grew on me.

[Men]

Me too.

[Mitch]

At first I was like, what are we doing here? He's a one trick pony. I felt first and then he grew on me.

[Men]

Go ahead. I like him as a nose, either as a 0 or a 1. An even or an odd front. Odd or even. I should say zero being like face up of the, of the center in the three man front or shaded to the, you know, one technique in between the center and the guard, strong hands. I thought what he did best was he controlled blockers. And honestly, I don't know if you picked up on this. I think he's got really like uniquely fast eyes. Locating the football instinct.

[Mitch]

I always like whenever someone calls a defensive tackle instinctive. I'm like, okay, how instinctive do you have to be when someone runs right at you and then you see it when you see a guy like Capehart, you're like, that's, that's, that's. He's an instinctive guy. He's, he has a good feel for where blockers are coming from. And like you said about controlling blockers, he's really good. Two gapping, he's not, he's a little light to be handling.

[Men]

His leverage is awesome.

[Mitch]

But if you put him right on a center, you line him right over that center or he only has to take on a guard, he doesn't get doubled, he's going to lock that dude out. He's going to locate the ball and he's going to get off the block. And what else do you want from a guy who's playing on the inside? He's really good at that.

[Men]

I honor, like we, we talk about 1 being excellent, 2 being good, 3 being average, 4 being below average, 5 being marginal. I mean, just to sum them up, I think this dude's a one run defender. Yeah, I think he's, I gave him.

[Mitch]

Two, but I hear you fine.

[Men]

Let's meet it, let's meet it at 1.5 and we got a damn good run defender. And I think he's a 4 pass rusher.

[Mitch]

Right. The other thing about your mind, he's a sixth year player for a reason. He's an old, he's an older guy. He just got cleared to come back for. He's had some like injury issues, a little bit banged up, hasn't really played a huge role. I think he's only had two sacks over the course of his career. You know, so these, these are the things that are probably going to drive him down the board.

[Men]

48 snaps last year.

[Mitch]

Yeah, these are things are Going to drive him down the board. But if you're, when you're looking later in the draft and you're saying, is there a guy out here who can come in and help us? This is a dude you want to keep an eye on.

[Men]

Yeah, I, I view him as like 5th round run defender, gonna be in the rotation. He can help us. Yeah. Stefilan Green, more of a 3:5 technique guy. Also plays some one technique for Clemson using like a lot of games. I thought he played high, gets pushed around a lot. I also thought he had fast eyes though.

[Mitch]

Last year was his real first real action too. Remember that? That he was, he's. He's a pup. He's still a younger dude. I think he is just turned 20. He was 19 last year.

[Men]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

So he's, he's young and I agree with you. There's some things that he's got to do a little bit more. We'll see what happens when he plays a bigger role.

[Men]

Yeah. As a pass rusher, there were a couple times where it really flashed like obvious. Obvious passing downs with a Runway to the guard where he can build and he knew he was pass rushing then you could see that speed to power and he could drive guys back. But he's a straight line power base guy.

[Mitch]

He's got to expand his game. Right. Like he's got a, he's. You now have that. Now let's branch off and start working on counters, secondaries and. And also I felt like, to be honest, I thought his motor was a little hot and cold.

[Men]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

I thought there was times he chased and there was other times where it was like, oh, you know, I'm kind of, you know.

[Men]

Yeah. I wrote clearly use them in a rotation for a reason. 300 young players are like that.

[Mitch]

Yeah. They don't realize what it takes to really grind every snap, you know.

[Men]

Yep.

[Mitch]

Enough to be excited about though, him going forward. There is, I wrote he's a developing pass rusher with intriguing upside. He's not there yet, but could get there. And then I thought he's also a guy who's pretty good at locating the ball and getting off blocks. He was a guy that needs to be a little more consistent with it. But he got some. He was able to get off some blocks violently. He was also able to play off some low blocks and he moves well. He's 290 and he moves well. It'll be interesting to see if he can take the next step.

[Men]

Yeah, he needs to. But I think, I think there's enough in There where he can. I'll give you 30 seconds on. On Khalil Barnes. You give me 30 seconds and then we'll move on to what s. And do the same because what's it's July. 6 foot 195. Where's number seven jersey? 61 tackles last year. He's fifth on the team. Four interceptions. I think he's best kind of closer to the line of scrimmage in that nickel roll. Maybe instinctive. Tough versus the run. Good feel for like fighting off blocks, staying involved, staying active. Good angles and. And I thought he did a nice job with leverage plays with balance, stays on his feet. All those things. Had some big breakdowns in coverage I think this year. Hopefully some development. Not like egregious shit but like it was I supposed to. Are you supposed like couple where I want to see. Like are we. It was that early in the season like you know both. Both of them were versus Georgia. I should said two big breakdowns against Georgia. Physical and coverage holds up in contesteds. But to me he's a guy like the more space in certain one on ones there's some limitations but again like a really damn good college safety. Need to see another level from him next year. I'm thinking more day three on him right now. Have to contribute special teams and and work to work his way towards a role. But he's got a whole nother season at Clemson with a really good front in front in front of him to continue to get better.

[Mitch]

Yeah, he's a nickel who could play safety. I think he's more of a nickel guy. I agree with you in that sense. Seven picks over the last two years. So his first two seasons he's had seven picks. I love the way he's one of those guys that just the ball seems to find him and he locates it and he. And he's just got a feel for reading the quarterback and all that stuff. I played. I have a note that he played receiver in addition to defensive back in high school and he plays the ball like. Like a wide receiver. So the ball skills and the versatility are all like that. I'm on the other side of the. Of the run stopping stuff. I think he's got to get better there. I think he gets stuck on blocks. I think he's got to be. I'm not saying he's not tough by the way. So we do agree like I do think he's willing to mix it up, but he's a leaner dude. I think he's got to Fill out his frame. And I wholeheartedly agree with you on some of the, the. Am I in the right place? And I think adding on to that a little bit is. Doesn't play fast because of it. You know, there's getting caught in a position and then there's not playing fast because of something. And there were times where he, especially when he was playing safety, where I was like, man, like you, you, you cannot be that late reading and reacting to that break. You've got to be. You've got to be there quicker.

[Men]

Wade wood as number nine. He was 17 last year. 63, 235. Led the team with 83 tackles. Again, like fast eyes. Has some initial pop. Knocking blockers off the pads, off his pads. Fights hard, like, continues to pursue. Wrap up tackler. I thought kind of quick laterally, okay coming forward, but really slow to redirect in space. Lacks top end recovery speed. Like, if he gets out of positions, not gonna get back in it. Not a lot of knockback power like wrap up, but he's not in a lot. Like, you know.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I mean, he's, he's listed at 235, which is decent size for linebacker, but he's also 6:3, and you can see it on tape. He's got a real lean lower body, so sometimes it gives ground.

[Men]

Filled out a little bit more powerful, a little stronger at the point. I liked his patience, though, like, sifting through some stuff. I thought a good job with ball location. I just like the traits in coverage and I think he's going to have to be like, protected in certain matchups and how much area he's relied upon. But again, like, he's a great college football player. And I, I think day three, like, I had read, like, maybe day two, maybe top lineback, like, I don't see that level, but I think he's like a pretty awesome college linebacker who could find a niche in the NFL, special teams back up, you know, and, and continue to develop. And I want to see this year, like, is he playing faster? Did he get more physical? Did he get physically stronger? There's some upside there, but. But yeah, at the very least, if you're a Clemson fan, you know, like, I, I got a dog. I got a guy who's been through the wars and is ready to lay it all out there for me.

[Mitch]

Yep, there's not much I would disagree with you on all of that. I would say the one thing that was interesting to me was I kept watching him, was like, he doesn't quite trigger like he has elite instincts, and to me, what I came down to was that he's disciplined. He reads his keys and he's tall, so he can track the ball well. So he may not be right out of the gate, but he's almost never out of position. And he's usually quick enough between those three things, he's usually quick enough to get there before blockers are able to square up on him. Length is an asset in coverage, but it does. I think he's okay in underneath zone because he has. He has some length and I think he's okay turning with guys. But you're right, man. If you get him to go side to side, he's in pro. Like, if you ask him to defend an arrow route from a good running back coming out of the backfield, you were going to see it. You're going to see that tightness. Special teams backup, probably a great guy in the locker room, all of those things. There's a lot of college coaches who would want weight Wood as playing linebacker for them. All of those things. But I agree with you, as a pro, we're looking at probably a day three prospect who's going to come in and, you know, kind of carve out a role as a backup and special teams guy.

[Men]

Awesome last name, too. All right. Yeah, it's July, folks. Like barbecues, beach, hiking, if that's your thing. Like, get out there, have fun, tune in when you can. We love you for it. We're. We're gonna go once a week for the month of July. Happy to be doing it, but also happy to spend some time with our family, with our friends. Enjoying it as we gear back up into August. But you can catch us once a week here. Love you, brother. Enjoy some time.

[Mitch]

Love you too, man.

[Men]

Beautiful family of yours. And I will.

[Mitch]

You too.

[Men]

All right. Later. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.