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The McShay Show
LIVE NFL Draft 1st Round Analysis! Plus, Bill Simmons Joins! | The McShay Show
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- [01:04]
Todd McShay
Sa ra. It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. It's our time. It's officially NFL draft season and you can get in on all the action with FanDuel. FanDuel has lots of ways to bet on the draft, like pick, position, team to draft a player, exact order, top five and 10 picks, and so much more. When you win, you get paid instantly. Fanduel always has exclusive offers. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. So download FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL draft, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com Boy, are we in for a big one tonight. The biggest one. Men, you fired up?
- [08:42]
Steve Mensch
I'm so excited, man.
- [08:43]
Todd McShay
It's the first round of the NFL draft. If you're here right now with us, you're a die hard. We appreciate you. Hopefully the crowd continue continues to grow as the night goes on. Listen, I literally just got off the phone. More teams now I'm hearing are trying to move up within the top 10.
- [09:00]
Steve Mensch
Fine.
- [09:01]
Todd McShay
Cover that. Let's talk Shador Sanders and what's going on with that situation? Is he going to hear his name called tonight? Jackson Dart, who's trading up back into that back end of the first round for him. And a lot of other news. I don't think I've ever been a part of a draft with so many top 20 talents and the potential fluctuation of where they could wind up going in this year's draft. So it's going to be a wild night. Buckle up. I know you're with me. It's. There's no days to the draft. We are. I'm looking at the clock right now. We're 56 minutes away from the NFL Draft, men. You good?
- [09:39]
Steve Mensch
I'm good, man.
- [09:40]
Todd McShay
Tucker, play that music for me one last time. All right. I had to get the music in one last time. Mitch. I love it. I mean, I guess it's not one last time, but it's the best song before the. Before the NFL draft starts. Where do we begin? All right. Tennessee is officially. Not officially. Tennessee's about to be officially on the clock. We all know where they're going to go with that pick. That's going to be Cam Ward. It's the least kept secret in this year's draft class. And that's great.
- [10:27]
Steve Mensch
What's happening.
- [10:28]
Todd McShay
Yeah, let's start at 2. Let's start at pick 2. What's been interesting is there Jacksonville apparently is a, is a hot ticket. Jacksonville, they don't want to sit at 5, apparently. That's what all my sources are saying. I knew that there was the potential to trade back. I said to you on Sunday night and we talked about it. Tetaroa McMillan, the wide receiver from, from Arizona, he is a player that they are very much intrigued in and or with. I should say he's a 6 foot 4 wide receiver. Go back to the days of Clemson. Trevor Lawrence, six foot four wide receivers. Justin Ross, T. Higgins, two years together, 2018, 2019, 4,000 receiving yards. Those two guys had 42 receiving touchdowns. Those two guys had. So. So while my grade might not match up with, with where Jacksonville has them or Dallas has them and maybe I know some other teams have them, I understand the fit and why that would be a position of need and a specific player for Jacksonville. So when the information came in on Sunday, it was Jacksonville could take, could take Tetaro and McMillan at 5, and who knows, maybe they do. That's why we're here tonight. We're going to get. Everyone has to finally show their cards at the table tonight. Right. But the closer we've gotten as we got to like Tuesday or Wednesday was if they stick at five, Ashton Genty is likely to be the pick, the running back out of Boise State. Okay. If they're able to get a deal to move back, they would want a deal to move back. That would be far enough to get, to get some capital, but not too far to get past Dallas at 12. Because Dallas also has interest in Tetaro and McMillan. And that's not a secret around the league, as you see here if you're watching on YouTube. We appreciate you. We're going to be here all freaking night and we're excited. That's the team notes right there. And so when we're looking at it for Jacksonville, Teterow and McMillan move back, but not past 12. Stay at 5. Take Ashton Genty. But then the recent news came in Mensch, they're getting antsy. They're making phone calls. Yeah. And you know what? James Gladstone worked under our buddy Les need. And, and they're, I mean, they're renegades. And I say that in the best possible way. Like I, I love, I love people like that.
- [12:55]
Steve Mensch
Pirate ship.
- [12:55]
Todd McShay
Yeah. I love people like that. I love executives like that. Like Howie Roseman is a renegade. Okay. Two super bowl rings to show for it. So I've heard, I heard that they are making calls to move up. I don't know definitively, although it has been reported that one of those calls or some of those calls have been made to the Cleveland Browns at 2. Okay. And that would be for whom?
- [13:22]
Steve Mensch
Has to be Travis Hunter. Right?
- [13:23]
Todd McShay
It has to be Travis Hunter. If, if Liam Cohen, the head coach apparently is. Has a lot of say in this first pick because he was brought in. I don't want to say fix, but to kind of repair some of the damage that has gone on with Trevor Lawrence and Liam Cohen. Obviously, offensive track record has risen very fast. Most recent, Will Levis he worked with at Kentucky spent a little bit of time with McVeigh Tampa Bay as offensive coordinator. Baker Mayfield went from like, resurrected to like through the roof.
- [13:56]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [13:58]
Todd McShay
But apparently Liam Cohen has. Has a lot more say in this or is working in conjunction with. With James Gladstone, the new general manager as well. Both under 40 years old. And so you would have to think it would be moving up for Travis Hunter. So that was all the news and texts and all that I'm hearing. Cleveland's going to stick and pick, but we're going to find out shortly. Right. But Jacksonville, I keep getting told, like, they're, they're, they're antsy. They want to either move up or move back. And if they stay at 5, it's probably going to be Ashton Genti. Well, guess what if I know that. The league knows that.
- [14:34]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [14:35]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [14:35]
Steve Mensch
I love it, though. I love being aggressive. I love maybe going up and getting the best player in the draft.
- [14:40]
Todd McShay
Who?
- [14:41]
Steve Mensch
Travis Hunter.
- [14:42]
Todd McShay
Oh, okay. Yes. I thought you were speaking of Ashton Genti. I love him too much. I'm not going there with Travis.
- [14:50]
Steve Mensch
In my mind, they're, that's the, that's the play. Right. They're trying to get up to get.
- [14:53]
Todd McShay
Travis on her, which I, I can't blame. Like.
- [14:56]
Steve Mensch
No, I love it.
- [14:59]
Todd McShay
But here's the issue.
- [15:00]
Steve Mensch
It would be so easy to play it safe in your first year as a young gm. Right. It would be so easy just to go ahead and do that.
- [15:06]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [15:06]
Steve Mensch
But he's, he's here to win games. Go get him.
- [15:09]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And he learned from a guy who's in less need, who I love. I just, I respect his. The way he attacks. He's learned to be aggressive, take some shots f the draft picks until they, until they use the draft picks and they. Right. And they land a Kobe Turner in the Third round and a Braden Fisk in the second round and Jared Verse last year in the first round and completely rebuild that defense and like overnight basically you see Travis Hunter, if you're watching on YouTube right now, which you are because it's the only place you can get it, check out that graphic because you can, you can listen to the podcast on Apple Spotify anywhere else after the fact. Yeah, the graphics are nice, man. The hard part of these graphics will stop down here for a second. The hard part of these graphics, baseball right here. That 96 grade is high. You know, I don't, I don't give out any, Anything north of 95 means like, you know, the hard part of these graphics is to try to take like 12 months of tape and studying every, every play that of, of significance on a player and to provide it in three bullet. Bullet points of top traits and, and, and limitations areas of, of improvement. As you see there, he's one of one. I mean that was the best way average a thousand plus snaps the last two seasons. Hall of Fame level ball school ball skills and special with the ball in his hands. Right. And that's both, that's both a receiver and cornerback linear frame. That's, that's the concern. Can he, can he hold up physically?
- [16:43]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [16:43]
Todd McShay
If he's playing a lot of cornerback and tackling grown men needs to get stronger and, and so on and so forth. So that's Travis Hunter and that's the kind of the early news I'm now hearing. Like I said, I think Cleveland's going to stick and pick at number two. Now what's interesting mention is as I mentioned, and it's a good segue if I know it about Ashton Ginty at 5 for Jacksonville. The league knows it.
- [17:11]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [17:11]
Todd McShay
Okay. And the league does know it. And there are two teams I keep hearing in the last 72 hours. But it's heated up Denver early on. Sean Payton making a lot of calls to get up from 20. Presumably everyone is presuming because the range he's trying to get in get up to would be for Ashton Ginty. So we're talking four. Wow. Or five. Okay. And then the other place that I keep hearing and that so early on there was a lot of news about Sean Payton in Denver and I still think that could happen. And, and I'm also told that if it's not moving up for Ashen Jinti, it could be moving up for one of these tight ends maybe in, in more maybe ahead of Indianapolis like 11, 12, 13. Okay. To go get Colston Loveland. So Denver's trying to aggressively go up and. And get Sean Payton one of those. Those jokers that she talks about. Right. But the team that. That I'm getting texts and calls about and talking to other people, that has been most aggressive of every team in the NFL. Can you guess?
- [18:20]
Steve Mensch
Was it Houston?
- [18:22]
Todd McShay
Houston's one of them. Houston. I would actually put. I would put Houston for an offensive lineman, Denver for a joker for an offensive weapon, and then Chicago.
- [18:35]
Steve Mensch
That's right.
- [18:36]
Todd McShay
Yep. No team has had more people kind of talking about, yes, Chicago's moving up. They're trying to move up. And that would be for Ashton Jiti, is the assumption. No one in the league knows that I've talked to at least. But the assumption is it would be for Ashton Jitney. So it begs the question. It begs the question, Mensch. We know that Jacksonville likes Tetaroa McMillan. Chicago picks it 102 spots ahead of Dallas. If they could move back, right? If they could move back. I'm just looking at these picks right now. Jacksonville. Jacksonville already has four picks in the top 88 overall, folks. Okay. But if they move back from five to 10, I can pull up the trade chart in a minute. I Wonder what that. Five to 10, that's going to cost them one of their seconds. Chicago seconds, 39, 41 to move. So that if they were to make that move, you're parting ways. Parting ways with a pick that is like starter material. 39 or 41. That. And it might cost him a little bit more, like a fourth or a fifth, too, in addition. So you're giving away a chunk to go up five spots to get Ashton Genti, if that's the play. So this is all. I mean, this is all the fun we get to look forward to tonight.
- [19:58]
Steve Mensch
Let me ask you this. Here's a scenario for you. If you're in New England and you find out what that deal is. Now, obviously that you would think the pick four would be more valuable. Would you give a little bit of a discount to give that pick to the Bears just to get out of that spot, move back, pick up a pick and maybe get your tackle later on instead of being jammed like a, you know, not a hometown discount. Whatever you want to say.
- [20:18]
Todd McShay
Like, you know, let me pull up something here. Here's the problem, because I think New.
- [20:22]
Steve Mensch
England would love to get out of that pick and maybe wouldn't ask for as much.
- [20:26]
Todd McShay
I think New England would like to get out of that pick. I think New England's flat out in love with Will Campbell at 4, though. I think New England would like to get out of that pick. But my. My question is Jacksonville at five takes Ashton Genti, the Raiders at six. Okay, folks, I'm told it's Kelvin Banks, but I believe it's an offensive tackle. Some people are saying. Member. I'm told it's Kelvin Banks. We can get to that in a little bit because. Because the Raiders are fielding calls, too. I just. That's the most recent call I just got. You saw, I had to put my. Take my earpiece piece out and get on the phone. I don't think the jets are going tackle. I don't think Carolina is going tackle. I don't think New Orleans is going tackle. So, yeah, if they're intel, the Raiders would be scary because the Raiders could just stick at six and take the guy that you want. And so now by Moving back to 10, if you're new England, you're not getting Will Campbell and Mike Vrabel, I'm told, is in love with Will Campbell. The person, the football mind, the player. So you'd be putting that at risk.
- [21:40]
Steve Mensch
I know.
- [21:40]
Todd McShay
And I would say that it's a. It's a probability, a high probability. Campbell's not there at 10. So. So that's the fascinating part.
- [21:53]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [21:53]
Todd McShay
Yeah. All right, so we got a poll coming up. Which team. Oh, it's up right now. Sorry. So working through the kinks. Tv, Todd still a little. Little rusty. There's a poll up right now on which team is going to wind up with. With. Yeah, I wonder what the odds are on. On Chicago. Chicago is actually.
- [22:24]
Steve Mensch
Oh, all right. Tucker bomb. Our first Tucker bomb of the night.
- [22:29]
Todd McShay
Chicago. Chicago's leading on the poll. He doesn't know on the odds yet. So. Okay. All right. So that's fascinating. So. But. But Chicago is a team to watch out for, so. So here's the deal, folks. Like, we're going to get on the clock and it's going to be. It's going to be chalk right away. It's going to be Tennessee taking Cam Ward. I believe it's going to be Travis Hunter going to. Here's the other bit of it.
- [22:51]
Steve Mensch
Are you less sure of that now, though? Last night we went to bed. It was a done deal. Are you less sure that Travis Hunter is going to.
- [22:57]
Todd McShay
No, I actually feel damn good about it.
- [22:58]
Steve Mensch
Good.
- [22:59]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [23:01]
Steve Mensch
I hope not. I hope.
- [23:02]
Todd McShay
Chaos number three with the Giants. I've been trying to tell people for two plus weeks now, and I. And apparently on social media that people still aren't listening Abdul Carter is going to be the pick. Let's start with what I know for a fact. Shador Sanders is not good. I woke up this morning and I started flipping through miss anything overnight. We're on the west coast three hours behind. Was there any breaking news?
- [23:29]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [23:30]
Todd McShay
Nothing breaking. But I'm starting. I read a couple people are like, you know, Shador is in play at number three. Shador is not in play at three. Shador's not in play with the New York Giants. As far as I'm told, Shador didn't have a great interview with Brian Dabel in a private, private visit. An install package came in. The preparation wasn't there for it. Got called out on it. Didn't like that Brian didn't appreciate him not not liking it. I've said this before and it started at the combine and a couple days after the combine we. I don't like saying report like we don't report anything. I shared. I shared information that I got that I know if I'm getting it that information. People that are in this business that are really great at their job and talking to a lot of same people I'm talking to and probably more I know more. I was surprised it wasn't being talked about that Shador Sanders. I told you if you've been following the show from the beginning, I told you there were two personnel people that I spoke to who were in the room during interviews which mean they were. They're key parts of the organization. Let's leave it at that. Two teams drafting in the top 10 with quarterback needs where the interviews did not go well. Not disrespectful, nothing harsh. Just felt like the phrase I've been using and I think it aptly describes it should door didn't. We didn't get the sense that she door cared all that much about what we thought of him. Not like any. Everyone here has probably been on an interview for a job, right. So it started at the combine and then you've seen other reports leak about interview process and not going well. And I just heard in the last what, 72 hours about the Brian Dable and Shador Sanders. I don't want to call an incident but situation. Situation. Yeah. So there you see with Shador. 21 is the ranking in this class 90 grade fringe. First round is where I landed on him. Third quarterback in the class behind Cam Ward and Jackson Dart. The Giants are picking at three. They're not taking Shador Sanders there. They're not taking Shador Sanders. If he was sitting at 34 is my understanding. Okay. Even though there are people in the personnel side, the scouting department, that. That have been pushing for Shador as high as three. Abdul Carter should be the pick there at three. And I don't want to. We. When they get on the clock, we can talk all about it and we can come back to it later this hour if we need to. But. But for these purposes, let's keep things moving as we go through things. It just fascinates me, though. You wake up this morning, the morning of the draft, and people who are in this information business and are saying he's still very much in play at 33. He's not in play at 3, folks.
- [26:32]
Steve Mensch
He's not a play at any point for them.
- [26:34]
Todd McShay
Let's get to the Giants now. They're another team. I've got it written down here in this notepad. I've been taking notes today on calls and texts. Giants have already started to make calls about moving up into the late first, and I'm told it's for Jackson Dart. I want to. I want to bring this back. Jackson Dart's not as tall and big and he's not as. As mobile, maybe as. As fast. And he doesn't have the arm. That's the biggest difference. The. He does not have the arm. And I'm speaking in comparison to Jackson Dart, but I remember distinctly Mensch Getting done with 161 on Pro Football Focus. They have the ultimate right. You know, it's the best. It's the most efficient way to watch tape. And you. You marry that with the. With catapult, where we get all of our game tape, okay? And they've. You can just go and like any scenario you can think about like A quarterback throws 11 to 11 to 20, 21 to 30, to the right side, to the left side, rolling to the right. Anything you want. They have this. This feature breakdown. It's a clip reel. I call it of versus pressure throws or versus pressure snaps because some of them may be runs or sacks. When I got done with 161 clip reel versus pressure for Jackson Dart, I said to you, I don't want to like. I don't like doing comparisons to Mahomes and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. But I got a lot of the same feelings watching Jackson Dart that I did Josh Allen, right, climbing, poised, but always like moving the offense forward. Because when you get done watching Cam Ward and you get done watching Shador Sanders, there's a lot of drifting, hanging, rolling, rolling. With Jackson, it's pressure Coming either sidestep and attack, move forward and then kind of run, you know, slide parallel to the line of scrimmage as he's still surveying the field. And that's where I think his processing is brilliant.
- [28:41]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [28:41]
Todd McShay
When he's moving around versus pressure, how quickly his eyes. His eyes work from. Okay, so the only reason I bring that up is it doesn't shock me at all that Brian. Brian Dable likes Jackson dart.
- [28:55]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [28:56]
Todd McShay
You know what I mean?
- [28:57]
Steve Mensch
It's a better. Yeah, it's a better quarterback for system. The size, the way he moves. Absolutely. There we got his Jackson darts graphic. And people. We talked about this on the way into. People forget where Josh Allen was in the process when he came out of Wyoming. Right. He was not Josh. The Josh Allen that we all know now. There was concerns about accuracy. He had a long way to go. Even his rookie year, you saw glimpses of what he could be. But it took him.
- [29:23]
Todd McShay
He completed like, 58 of his throws the first, like, year and a half.
- [29:25]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [29:26]
Todd McShay
Career.
- [29:27]
Steve Mensch
It took him a minute.
- [29:28]
Todd McShay
So let's.
- [29:28]
Steve Mensch
Let's be upfront about that and probably take Jackson dart a minute too. But. And again, I know you're hesitant to make the comp because I know you're hesitant to make the comp because it is such a. It's a monster name to bring up Josh Allen. The fact that you're doing. Doing it means that you saw something significant.
- [29:46]
Todd McShay
Yeah, of course. I'm gonna need of all the. I've got all my notes. I've got chargers, I've got phones. I got mics.
- [29:53]
Steve Mensch
I got just one lemon. Perfect.
- [29:55]
Todd McShay
I brought one lemon. Perfect. I'm gonna drink 12 of these tonight. I had a shipment of, like, 90 sent to the hotel, and I brought one into the studio, so. Marissa, I may need some more, so. No, I know that. So. But what's interesting to me is the calls are. And. And listen, we talked to Joe Douglas. Joe Douglas, our very good friend, and he was just. We were asking him, like, fill the audience in on. On what's going on this week. And he was talking about, like, the plans to move up and to do all. All the different things and. And getting the plan in place and having your. Your house in order is how he described. So I'm sure these calls have been going on exploratory, but they're. They're heating up. Okay. They're. They're heating up today, is my understanding. And to me, that's. That's interesting because we've assumed all along that it's going to be a situation where. And this is part of what I wrote this morning in the McShay report. Oh, by the way, in the McShay report, let's just, let's get some, some housekeeping. Housekeeping taken care of. There you go. All right. The deal expires. Run to the podium tomorrow night. It's a sprint to the podium. I like it's. It's sprint past the podium.
- [31:16]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [31:16]
Todd McShay
Sprint past the podium. The McShay report. Google it. Subscribe. Had a huge spike. I appreciate everyone who has subscribed. If you haven't, please jump in now. It's a great opportunity. One buck uno, one dollar. By tomorrow night. Though, if you're, if you get in tomorrow, we're gonna have a kind of a breakdown of reaction winners and head scratchers. I don't do losers. I don't do grades. Left. That's my friend Kuiper. I'm not a grade A minute after the draft guy, but I do do you know, let me tell you an interesting story. If you're watching. We got all night. When I got to my former place of employment, it was, it was told to me that I have to do draft grades. And I said I won't or refuse. Gary Horton, I've told you about him, raised me in this business. You don't do draft grades. You want to keep contacts in the league. You want to be respectful. Plus, what do you really know on a draft grade? Do it three years after. If you're not going to do that. Mel doesn't do away too early mock draft. You're going to have to do that. So it was your choice contractually, before you sign that contract. It's one or the other. So I do the way too early mock draft.
- [32:25]
Steve Mensch
Did you see Van Pell talking about this?
- [32:27]
Todd McShay
How ridiculous it is.
- [32:29]
Steve Mensch
It's so good.
- [32:30]
Todd McShay
So good. Well, I've got. I'm doing a way too early mock draft. It's just in my D. It's baked into my DNA. So part of what you'll get from McShay report is we're going to have a reaction. Oh, and the reaction tomorrow morning you're going to want to get this. It's not just a reaction to what happens in the first round. Also, I'm going to do a top 10. It's going to be like a flash mock what I'm hearing overnight here where I think the direction the teams could go in the first 10 picks of tomorrow. So a little top 10 mock draft for tomorrow, then we're going to do a deep dive into all 32 teams for next week. You know, look back what they did all seven rounds, the synopsis. But we're going to dive in and give you, like, how these guys actually fit. What to expect. Who could be a guy that was drafted in the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th round that could wind up making an impact as a rookie and then the way too early mock draft. And we'll have plenty, plenty more.
- [33:18]
Steve Mensch
You got to sprint to the podium for that.
- [33:19]
Todd McShay
Sprint to and pass the podium for that. Okay. But I was getting, I was, I was on the Giants. Oh, this is what we talked about in this morning's the McShay Report. Excuse me. I think it's fascinating because some of the information I've got. We've known all along and we've talked about it, right. Why Brian Dabel would love Jackson Dart and why Kellen Moore, the New Orleans Saints head coach, would love Jackson Dart. Okay.
- [33:53]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [33:54]
Todd McShay
I was told yesterday, last night when we were out to dinner, I stepped out and had a phone conversation that New Orleans, we've known all along New Orleans likes Jackson Dart. But I've heard they like Tyler Shuck. I, I do. I have said from the beginning Kellen Moore is not going to be a Shador Sanders guy. Look at the last three OC jobs and he's had Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts. Okay. And that's just not Shador. It's not bigger, mobile, sturdy, stronger arm. He's just not that. And Jackson Dart, I want to make it perfectly clear, does not have great explosion on his ball when he drives it vertically. But there's a lot more energy from what I've seen in like the intermediate stuff with his ball. But he's certainly much more mobile. Certainly, you know, thicker built, sturdier build and he just fits better. So I was told by that New Orleans actually like, is infatuated with Jackson Dart. Like, more than to the point where I was like, well, what about nine? And no one's heard anything about them taking him at nine. And I. And we'll get to New Orleans in a minute too, on that ninth pick. But I was told, I was told that they don't be surprised if they're aggressive moving into the back end of the first. Now we're hearing this morning that the Giants are already making aggressive calls about moving into the back end of the first. We could have an awesome game of chicken on our hands.
- [35:25]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [35:26]
Todd McShay
And I want to remind. Let's, let's walk through this together. The Giants have four picks in the top 99. New Orleans has four picks in the top 93. So they're equipped. New Orleans has nine overall picks. The Giants have eight overall picks in this year's draft. Okay, but the wild card in all this, if this information is accurate, the wild card in all of this is Mickey Loomis, Right. Who I talked about Renegades before. He's well known inside the NFL. And really, all you have to do is study. When he likes a guy, when he likes a player, there's very little he won't do to trade up to go get him. So what could be we be looking at tonight, Mensch?
- [36:14]
Steve Mensch
I mean, it's going to be really interesting because adding to the. To the. I don't know, the. How. How fascinating this really is, there's gonna be a lot of teams in that late first round, I think from 26 on that are going to want to trade back or be interested in trading back, because when you look at the breakdown of the draft, you look at the players that are at 26 versus the players that at 35, 40, there's not a huge gap. So there's going to be a lot of teams interested in making that move. And you might feel comfortable getting to one spot, but you better. I mean, you better go as high as you can if you're the Giants, man. And I mean, the giants have the 34th pick, which does help them. I know the numbers of picks, and. And the saints have the 40th, so that that pick is a little bit more attractive. I get it. But you better be aggressive. Don't leave anything to doubt.
- [37:07]
Todd McShay
That's the thing.
- [37:08]
Steve Mensch
Because, yes, you're going to get.
- [37:11]
Todd McShay
If you're the Giants, right? And if New Orleans wasn't. Wasn't sitting there at 10,000 viewers. Viewers already on YouTube. Here we go. I said it. We're getting 100,000. What'd you say, Tucker? 10,000. We're getting 100,000 tonight. And people laughed at me. We're going to get there.
- [37:32]
Steve Mensch
I laughed at you.
- [37:33]
Todd McShay
We got to. We got it. Thank you, everyone.
- [37:36]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [37:37]
Todd McShay
I've been so pumped. Like, I've been reading the comments. I told you, I stopped reading them. Former place of employment. I'm reading them and I love, like.
- [37:44]
Steve Mensch
A lot of supportive people, man.
- [37:46]
Todd McShay
They're very supportive, but when they're not supportive, they do it constructively and then they talk ball and they're interested and, like, I actually love ripping through. And we're gonna. I'm gonna pull up my iPad at Some point tonight we'll get to some of the, some questions. We'll, we'll go through it as we're, as we're breaking down all 32 picks. But thank you for the support early on. We're gonna have fun tonight, I promise. The hell were you talking about for Tucker rudely interrupted me talking about who's.
- [38:11]
Steve Mensch
Trading back, what it might take for the Giants.
- [38:14]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah. It's going to be like. Because if New Orleans doesn't exist behind you.
- [38:21]
Steve Mensch
Right, right.
- [38:22]
Todd McShay
And that's why I call it a game of chicken tonight. It's a blind game of chicken, too. It's a blind game because you have no. Maybe, maybe New Orleans is putting out smoke and they actually, they don't plan on drafting a quarterback.
- [38:35]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [38:35]
Todd McShay
Or they plan on drafting Tyler Schuck and they think they can get him at 40. Because my point is there's no other team in the back end of the first that wants to draft Dart. And if you're being cautious, yeah, you get up, you call Howie or you go up to like 28 or something. Because Cleveland, I, I haven't heard Cleveland being overly aggressive in terms of making calls and trying to move up yet. We'll see how that.
- [38:58]
Steve Mensch
Right. You have to worry about that too, though. Like, you can't just discount it because you haven't heard anything.
- [39:02]
Todd McShay
And you. I talk about it all the time. Relationship. You've got to have relationships in this business because of a moment like this. A moment like this. If you have decided we really want Jackson Dart, can't give up our three, can't give up our nine if you're the Giants and Saints, respectively. But we really like them and we'd like, we're willing to part ways with a third round pick and to package that with our second round pick to go up and get them. How high will you go?
- [39:31]
Steve Mensch
And is there a team, you know, we, you know, it doesn't seem like the Rams would take him, but is there a team out there that's the disruptor, the team that you haven't thought about? I haven't thought about that. Just hasn't. Again, I cannot get over the Michael Penix pick last year to Atlanta, but it makes sense from what their strategy was. And is there another team out there that has Jackson Dart so higher on their board that we don't know about that just can't live with itself not taking him there?
- [39:58]
Todd McShay
And the jets got a quarterback, but it's Justin Fields.
- [40:03]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [40:03]
Todd McShay
And the Raiders got a quarterback, but Gino's 35 turning 35, man.
- [40:09]
Steve Mensch
I mean, so you get.
- [40:10]
Todd McShay
You got to be worried about all of this.
- [40:12]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a long night for those teams that think they're going to trade back for Jackson Dart.
- [40:17]
Todd McShay
I'm fascinating. Here's my deal. Tomorrow night I'm just going to give you a preview and I haven't told anyone behind that window, any executive here at the Ringer at Spotify, my, my thing tomorrow night. We're going to be back a half hour before the draft. Right. And we're going to, we're going to go. They've told me we can go as long as we want. Menche has got other responsibilities. He's a busy man and I appreciate them. Appreciate him for it. I don't. We'll figure out how much. How much or how much how little we can get of them. I will do this thing alone. I will talk my head off. I'm trying to think of something catchy, but I, I, we're going to do the show till shuck. Tyler Shuck has got to be drafted before I'm ready to turn these lights off and call it, you know, put a pause on it because after the, after the, after day two, after tomorrow night, after all the draft picks, mention is going to be back with me and we're going to do a review show of what we saw in the, in the rounds two and three. Okay. So I know you can't. And so we'll have half hour before leading up to we'll be on for, for a while. We'll be on at least until Tyler Schuck gets drafted. So everyone behind that window right now is rooting for Cleveland to take him at 33. But I don't care if it's in the third round. I'm going to talk until shuck. Show until shuck because I'm dying to see where that young man goes.
- [41:42]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [41:42]
Todd McShay
Because I think he's got a chance to surprise everyone and maybe be the second best quarterback in the this class. And I think he's more NFL ready than, than maybe all of them from a maturity standpoint. Here you see Tyler Shuck. I've got him ranked 40th overall. It was hard to put a four in front of that number because I do recognize there's some red zone issues. He can be streaky. He's 25. College for seven years, three season ending injuries. All bone breaks though. And I think that aged sharpen the blades a little bit. We talked to him for about 45 minutes. At the combine. What is not to love, right?
- [42:18]
Steve Mensch
I mean, when you ask him to call a play, he's ready to call NFL plays, he's ready to make NFL reads. He a lot to like about the kid. The resiliency and then the tape. Like, it's not just a great story.
- [42:31]
Todd McShay
He, he's bigger than all the other top quarterbacks. Talking about Cam Ward, Shador Sanders, Jackson, Darth. He's got a stronger arm than all of them, except maybe Ward, but he's on that same level. He's more mobile, right. When he takes off to run, he's the fastest of the group. And then there's the accuracy that I think is outstanding. But there are moments. Here's the only problem I have with shock. Two problems. And everyone in the league, I think, would agree. When pressure flashes fast in front of him, he's. He's so long levered at six, four and change right six, five, right around there that he gets his feet tangled up a little. He's not as like sudden as like. Shador's not a runner. Shador is not fast. Cam Ward's not fast. Jackson darts pretty fast. Faster than those two, but not as fast as Shuck. When Shuck takes off and runs on a straight line. He's fast, but his feet get tangled up a little bit when, when pressure flashes quickly. The other thing is, that's the kryptonite.
- [43:34]
Steve Mensch
For a lot of quarterbacks.
- [43:35]
Todd McShay
A lot of taller quarterbacks. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning.
- [43:39]
Steve Mensch
Right? Did okay.
- [43:41]
Todd McShay
They did okay. The other part is the age doesn't bother me. The durability stuff. Yeah, it's a thing. But they were bone breaks. They were not something that's like degenerative that you think is going to be a long term deal that's going to come back. But. But he's only started one year and he's going in, you know, gonna be 26 years old at next year at some point, so. But Tyler Schuck is going to be fascinating to me and the only reason I brought his name up and wanted to spend a minute on him, because I think he's one of the great. For those of you who have maybe haven't watched from the beginning, this guy came out in Trevor Lawrence's class. He was one of the elite, elite guys. Here you see the graphic we have and this is fascinating because Cam Ward, five seasons, three different schools, 15, 57 starts. Mensch, right? Shador Sanders, two schools, four seasons, 50 starts. Jackson Dart, two schools. People forget that he transferred from USC right.
- [44:36]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [44:37]
Todd McShay
Four seasons, 38 starts. Jalen Milroe, four seasons all at Alabama, 27 starts. So five seasons for Ward, four for Sanders, four for Dart, four for Milroe. All have more starts than Tyler schuck at just 24 in seven years.
- [44:56]
Steve Mensch
Seven years.
- [44:57]
Todd McShay
That's. That's.
- [44:58]
Steve Mensch
He was Justin Herbert's backup at Oregon.
- [45:00]
Todd McShay
So Trevor Lawrence's class. He was like Elite 11, like one of the, you know, top premier guys. Went, went to Oregon at a time where Justin Herbert was there. So he was next in line behind Justin Herbert. Oregon's taking off. He was recruited by everybody. Chose Oregon. Okay. And then bounced around and things didn't go well there. Had another injury. Texas Tech. Was set to be a starter for a couple of years. Was the starter. Things were going well. Injury, season ending. Injury, season ending. Gets to the Braum brothers, Jeff and Brian Braum, who actually know how to develop quarterbacks at Louisville. And he ascended and that stop, that one year stop for him made all the difference in the world and. And made him into the prospect that he is and potentially a top 40 pick. Potentially 33rd to Cleveland.
- [45:52]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [45:53]
Todd McShay
Potentially if New Orleans jumps up. Potentially 34 to the Giants. Potentially if the Giants go up and get DART. 40 to 40 to New Orleans or. Or maybe a surprise team like the jets or the. The Raiders in between. So he's a fascinating name we're not going to hear tonight, but he's part of the whole deal when we start to talk about which team actually makes the move up, deciding what spot when we get past 20 because. And that's the next part. We'll get to Shador in a second when we get past 21. Whether she door Sanders was picked at 21 by the Pittsburgh Steelers or not. Okay. It no longer is the Shador watch. That's what's fascinating. It's Pittsburgh or bust for the Sanders camp tonight and might as well just throw it out there now. I have not heard a word of any team wanting to trade up to go get him in the first, in the late first. It's all Pittsburgh or bust tonight for Shador. So that means whether he's taken at 21, Shador Sanders or he's not, then it becomes the Jackson dart watch. Fascinating, right?
- [47:03]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [47:03]
Todd McShay
All of a sudden, like everyone's. And you know what, like these networks, you know what's going to go on. I've been there when Johnny Manziel and Gruden screaming every pick.
- [47:11]
Steve Mensch
They won't be talking about anything other than this.
- [47:13]
Todd McShay
Yeah, right. And Brady Quinn And Aaron Rodgers.
- [47:19]
Steve Mensch
What do you think about those picks though? Those guys fell to the 20s and that was. This is, you know, earth shattering for these, these players. We're talking about a guy falling from potentially what would have been a top five pick, a top three pick to out of the first round.
- [47:35]
Todd McShay
Well, the best thing that happened to Shador and his camp is the information flows more freely now. Right back then with Aaron Rodgers. No one there. Was it, was it, was he or Alex Smith Just trying to do some recall here, here. Alex Smith were going to go number one overall. For a while everyone thought it was Aaron and then all of a sudden it was Alex Smith and then everyone's yeah, but Aaron will go somewhere, but no one could kind of identify where. And then that night happened. Okay. And, and Johnny Manziel we all kind of knew. Honestly. Jon Gruden made it worse. I'll just say it because a lot of us knew like he was kind of, he was trending to. But there were a couple teams we thought. And Bill Polian loved him and I love, I love Bill. Learned a lot from Builder in my time at ESPN with him. Six time executive of the year. How could you not just be a sponge when he's talking. But, but if it wasn't for Gruden yelling every pick. How do you. How is he still on the board? I don't think. But it got bad, right? And then Will Levis is the most recent one with the girlfriend incident. Oh my God. So her face pop up again today? Apparently she got a bunch of deals. I forgot her name a bunch of deals right after that. That was, that was awkward, right?
- [48:55]
Steve Mensch
All of it's awkward, yes.
- [48:58]
Todd McShay
But, but Shador, back to my point. Shador, fortunately enough before, before having to accept an invitation to the draft to be here for the first night, recognized that this, this is coming down the pipe and I want to remind people. Good, bad, indifferent. Back in October when we started this show, October 22nd, one of the first storylines that we were discussing during the college football season, we were talking about teams in the top 10 and, and big games coming up on Saturday. And join us for the Saturday night show, which I kind of can't wait to start again next fall. Although I could use a little so much a little break after this.
- [49:32]
Steve Mensch
It was so much fun.
- [49:33]
Todd McShay
A blast. But, but the first bit of like big information or big news out there. Remember which Coach prime making comments that I'm. I'm gonna hand pick. Not.
- [49:48]
Steve Mensch
He's not playing for just anyone.
- [49:49]
Todd McShay
He's not going to play for just anyone. Thank you. And so there's going to be certain teams, and I won't let him play. And I think this process started with his son. Understandably so, if that's what your dad. Hall of Famer on every commercial on Saturdays during the fall. Head coach doing wonderful things at Colorado. If your dad's telling you this and he's locked into the NFL the way that Deion Sanders, Coach prime, is, you probably have a sense of, yeah, maybe I don't have to put my best foot forward. In interviews with a couple teams in the top 10, that needs quarterback.
- [50:25]
Steve Mensch
Said it was dangerous then and it's been dangerous.
- [50:27]
Todd McShay
Shrinking pool. That's how I described it back then, how I described it yesterday. The pool started to shrink and it shrunk with the Brian Dable interview. Private, private interview. And it's kind of shrunk along the way. And so they understood that that was happening.
- [50:46]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [50:47]
Todd McShay
And Coach prime would, you know, with his contacts in the league, and so they did not accept the invitation to be at the combine. Also interesting and understandably so. Jackson Dart initially did, but then there was reports that, you know, Jackson Dart may not get drafted in the first round. Nobody let me.
- [51:04]
Steve Mensch
You know who's there, right?
- [51:06]
Todd McShay
Jalen Melroe.
- [51:07]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Want to wait a minute for that one, or you want to get into that?
- [51:11]
Todd McShay
Let's wait a second. But we can come right back to it. I love it. So Shador knew that this was a possibility, and quite frankly, it felt like that Pittsburgh deal when he did like, K. Adams from the airport. And he knew I better. And Mike Tomlin's close with Coach prime, so he knew that this, like, the pool starting to shrink. I better, you know, I better snap to.
- [51:39]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [51:40]
Todd McShay
So anyway, a lot going on podcast.
- [51:43]
Steve Mensch
Talking about whoever's throwing a George Pickens, DK Metcalf next year is going to be a great quarterback. And, you know, now he's buddy, buddy. He's trying to friend, be friendly with everyone.
- [51:51]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Which is what you should be doing from the start.
- [51:53]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [51:54]
Todd McShay
With every single organization out there. Because you just. It only takes one, but maybe there is only one, you know, so it's. Shador is a good dude, man. Chador is really smart. I want to remind people, too, about Shador Sanders. He's the toughest son of a bitch in this draft class. I'm like, I'm telling you, my bones were aching watching his tape. You know, he's a target every week.
- [52:20]
Steve Mensch
He was a target because of who he is every single week.
- [52:23]
Todd McShay
And he didn't have a wall in front of him protecting him from all those, those angry defensive linemen traffic trying to get their one shot on Shador. Yeah. Okay. And he bounced up every single time. This kid is tough.
- [52:37]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [52:37]
Todd McShay
He's mentally tough, he's physically tough. He's accurate. He can layer the ball. He, he processes the game beautifully. He's been around the game his whole life. He's going to be just fine if he lands in the right spot. Right, Right. And, and gets protection. And I keep saying Kevin Stefanski, I haven't heard a single thing about Cleveland outside. Travis Hunter is going to be there. Maybe, maybe that would be the fit. I don't know. But what I, and I say Stefanski, in case you haven't been following along because he, Stefanski has worked with quarterbacks in the past that, that aren't the biggest, aren't the fastest, aren't the most mobile, don't have the strongest arms. And it's one like 10, 11 games, including Kirk Cousins most recently, by the way. Yeah.
- [53:21]
Steve Mensch
I kind of love the idea of Cleveland getting Travis Hunter and Shadore Sanders. I mean, and we talk about all this stuff about where he's going to go, what's the best for the player long term. Don't get caught up in, wow, he fell and all that stuff. It's sometimes getting drafted early sometimes is not the best thing that can happen to a player. Getting drafted to the right place is always the best thing that can happen to a player.
- [53:43]
Todd McShay
I totally agree.
- [53:44]
Steve Mensch
So if, you know, we, we like the fit with Stefanski and he ends up going, he ends up going early second instead of late first or 21 or wherever that might be great. Long term, great. Don't be upset about that. It could be the best thing that ever happened to you.
- [54:00]
Todd McShay
I couldn't agree more. I, I just, I could not agree more. And so we, we'll find out tonight. And listen, Pittsburgh would be a, a tremendous place for him to go. It. I mean the defense, they have, the culture they have the support of the head coach. That's the other bit of news I keep hearing that this is, this would be a Tomlin pick. Okay. And to give a little background, Mike Tomlin and Kevin and, and Kevin Colbert, the former GM of the Pittsburgh Steelers, work together as well as any head coach and, and, and general manager could work okay. Like, beautiful relationship. You could. The difference with the Steelers, man, they want to put their hands on you. I know that sounds like a weird phrase, but that's how people Talk about it in the league. Like, I want to get my hands on them. I want to. I want to be able to talk to them. I want to coach them through. Through things. I want to drill them. I want to see how they do with things that I need them to do. So they're out there. Like, I don't know how they have time in their schedule, but there's no other organization that's represented more consistently at pro days. The 30 visits that they have, all of it. And. And so they had a great working relationship. But at the end of the day, while Tomlin's input was all over everything that happened, it was Kevin's decision.
- [55:21]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [55:22]
Todd McShay
Kevin Colbert was. Was. Was the guy. And that from. In most cases, that's the deal. Right. But in some cases, depending, like if the head coach is there and established before you come in or. Or in a Mike Vrabel situation, there's a, you know, Elliott Wolf is in the position he's in. Brought in a couple people variable did to help support in the department, the scouting department. But at the end of the day, Mike Vrabel is going to make that choice, right. Well, I don't. In. In Pittsburgh, Omar Khan, who. Who does a great job and we know people in Pittsburgh and like it is a phenomenal. It's always been a phenomenal scouting staff from top to bottom, and it remains that. And Omar makes the vast majority of all the final decisions. Right. And he runs the whole deal. But since. Since Omar came in and Kevin left, my understanding is that Mike gets a.
- [56:19]
Steve Mensch
Little bit more sway, a little more power.
- [56:23]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And he picks his spots where it's like now we like let's take. And he has that leverage. And so my understanding is there are people and I don't know what. Where Omar sits on this and I. I don't know who the people are, but there are people in the organization that are against using that. Listen, I understand it. I wouldn't want to draft Shador there. I don't think if I'm Pittsburgh, I'm not saying that. 21. I actually have them ranked what I say 21 overall. So nothing to do with Pittsburgh. It just lined up that way. But I don't have a problem taking Shador in that range of the first round. That's where he should go. Okay. Back half of the first round, in my opinion. Some people say second, some people say top 10. But I think in Pittsburgh, I'm much more interested in whether it's Aaron Rodgers or another veteran. This team can win now Right.
- [57:14]
Steve Mensch
And the problem is, another problem is they don't have a second round pick.
- [57:16]
Todd McShay
They don't have a second round pick. So my preference would be. And there are people, I do know this, there are people in that, that building in Pittsburgh that want to move back, want to. If they can't recoup the second, at least get another third so that they wind up with three picks in the first two days. But at the end of the day, if Tomlin decides we're taking Shador at 21. That's the deal.
- [57:41]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, that's it.
- [57:42]
Todd McShay
And. And early in the week, I told you the floor is softer than people think. For. Because everyone was saying, well, the floor is. Is 21 Pittsburgh for Shador Sanders. It's. And I said Sunday, Monday, even into Tuesday, the floor is softer than people think. It's not the cement floor. Because, Because I don't. Because I was told it's less than 50, 50 that Pittsburgh takes them at 21. It's told in the last 24, 35 hours, whatever has been. If you had to, if, if you could bet yes or no, Bet yes on Shador to Pittsburgh. We'll see how it plays out.
- [58:22]
Steve Mensch
Good. All right, I'm going to stop you. I'm going to interrupt you. I'm going to change the topic.
- [58:25]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [58:26]
Steve Mensch
I've been asked to, you know, listen. It's been two years, right, since you've really done your thing.
- [58:31]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [58:32]
Steve Mensch
I've been asked to read a couple messages from some people you might know.
- [58:35]
Todd McShay
Oh, wow.
- [58:36]
Steve Mensch
You know, wishing you some luck. And we're going to start off with. Hey, dad, you wear that hat every show because your hairline is crooked. You get the joke? Also, good luck. Good luck tonight. I love you, Tate. Todd, son. Tate. Next one's. I love you, Daddy. With all my heart. Good luck, Daddy. Love you. Love you all the way from here, sweetie. From here, sweetie. And very important. And let Mensch talk.
- [59:02]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [59:02]
Steve Mensch
From your. From your daughter, Alaire.
- [59:04]
Todd McShay
What, are you trying to make me cry?
- [59:05]
Steve Mensch
Before, I should have done it a little early, but you were on a roll, so here we go. Todd, all the hard work and time you've put in has led to this moment. We've all watched how hard you work and you still find time for all of us. Enjoy every second. This is just beginning for you. Go crush it. But please put the fries in the bag. Love, Mia. And then the last one we got here is. Good luck with the draft, Todd. I have a feeling this is your best draft. Thanks for working hard all year. Long we see your hard work paying off. And mensch, please, no more Clemson slander next year. Love, A.J.
- [59:40]
Todd McShay
I love it. My two beautiful, wonderful children and my two beautiful, wonderful stepchildren.
- [59:46]
Steve Mensch
I thought there was some really important stuff in there that's huge.
- [59:49]
Todd McShay
Well, now that we're doing all this sweet stuff with six minutes left before the draft, here we go. I do read the comments and he's actually not wearing it. Folks, for all of you doing the and Mencha's got like, this, is this interesting Twitter or X what is going on there, man? But people are, are interest paying attention and interested in your hat choice all the time. It's either the Bad Birdie or it's the North Face, right? And so it was, it was brought to my attention that like, all right, we're in Cali for the draft, out in la, staying a Manhattan Beach. It's time to put the North Face away. Like you grizzly New Hampshire guy, chopping wood, you know, raising chickens up there in New Hampshire. So it's time to put that away. And I went out and Marissa and I got you a little treat for the draft. And it really, it is fitting because it says keep it salty. You know, playing the words with the salt and the salt water out here in the Pacific Ocean. But I got you this hat to get everyone off your back about your hat selection.
- [60:59]
Steve Mensch
Appreciate it, man. What you guys don't realize is that.
- [61:03]
Todd McShay
I like it on you.
- [61:04]
Steve Mensch
I don't have a normal size head, so I feel.
- [61:07]
Todd McShay
Oh, I put it on the I, I, I. If you notice, it's on the last one.
- [61:11]
Steve Mensch
Oh my God.
- [61:11]
Todd McShay
It looks good on you, man.
- [61:13]
Steve Mensch
I got a Mench head. It's.
- [61:15]
Todd McShay
What do you guys think? Tucker, we good? Yes. And it's kind of, it's kind of.
- [61:20]
Steve Mensch
Appropriate because he is very appropriate.
- [61:22]
Todd McShay
He is a, a salty man sometimes, especially with me.
- [61:26]
Steve Mensch
Thank you, guys.
- [61:27]
Todd McShay
In April.
- [61:27]
Steve Mensch
I appreciate it.
- [61:28]
Todd McShay
The other 11 months. He's a sweetheart of a man. But hey, listen, before we get started on this, this, this venture, I love you, bro.
- [61:36]
Steve Mensch
Love you too, man.
- [61:36]
Todd McShay
This has been awesome. This has been the best year of my life professionally and in a lot of ways personally. And I couldn't be doing it with, doing it with anyone else that I would enjoy doing it more with than you.
- [61:49]
Steve Mensch
So back at you, man.
- [61:50]
Todd McShay
So let's go kick some ass tonight, right?
- [61:52]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, let's do it.
- [61:52]
Todd McShay
I'm excited. We're down to just about three minutes until the draft is officially open as Roger Goodell will, will come out and Say, this is exciting.
- [62:04]
Steve Mensch
I hope to trade the tip.
- [62:05]
Todd McShay
Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being a part of it. Promise we won't get sappy anymore.
- [62:11]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, that's it.
- [62:11]
Todd McShay
That was it. We get two minutes. I. I'm just looking up at the screen. We got, like, the. You could feel the energy. Green Bay is packed, as you would expect. We're here and we appreciate you being here with us. We're gonna have a fun night tonight. I promise you this. I promise you we're not going to break for commercials. We might have to sneak off to the bathroom a couple times. I promise you we're gonna have Bill Simmons on tonight. We're. We're honored and blessed to have our main man, Bill Simmons, come join. I know he's going to want to talk about the Patriots. I'm sure he's got some other opinions as well. We're excited to share those with you. I promise you we are not going to tip picks tonight. Okay? We are. We're walking a fine line, so hang with us and I'll check your comments as we go. I. We're going to be probably 15, they tell us. Tucker tells me they ran a test. We're on YouTube. We might be 15, 20 seconds late reacting to a pick. And we are, because there's a. That 15, 20 second delay on YouTube. But we're doing it because you got to respect the game, man. Like, I'm not here for clickbait. I've done. I've done it all at a pretty high level, and I feel pretty good about where we are. I'm not going to. I've always hated people that try to do something for shock value and do something like be true to the game. And the game is like, let's all enjoy this together. And so if. If you're watching on another screen and, you know, 15 seconds before, who cares? That's great, you know, and, you know, it's coming up and then you get to see our reaction, whether we're like, oh, man, that's a terrible pick, or we're like, yes. So. So let's enjoy this together tonight. And as we do it, the other promise I'll make to you is you're gonna get really. I'm not gonna say the best. I'm not gonna say anything, but you're gonna get really good analysis and thoughtful analysis and, like, you see all these books and, you know, the tape study's been done. You know, we've. We've. We've been diving into all 32 teams and we know that the rosters, the scouting staffs back to front instead of spending so much time and it always drove me crazy. So much time on. We got this pic coming up and they could go here and my source is telling me here and all these features and like people crying. The only, the only close to a tear that you would get. The entire night on this show was mensch reading stuff from, from all four of my kids. Okay. From the tonight it's not gonna be about features, special video, it's not gonna be about tipping pics. It's not gonna be about any of those things. It's gonna be about what did your team just get? How does that affect the team? Let's focus 6, 7, 8 minutes as long as we have on the clock to tell you what like what kind of player, what kind of impact he'll make and then also what's still left to do. All right, you took a running back there, great. He's a phenomenal player. But you didn't address cornerback or offensive line. Let's look day two picks. Let's preview tomorrow night and then we'll get take about a minute, preview the next team, see where they could be going, get the pick, rinse and repeat.
- [65:05]
Steve Mensch
And you're not going to get the same opinion on every player and every pick. There's going to be some disagreements between us, I'm sure I may be surprised if there wasn't. You know what I mean? It's not going to be one voice.
- [65:12]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Tucker, I didn't tell you we wanted to do this but let's re rack this thing. It is officially 5:00 Pacific 8:00pm Eastern Time. It is officially time for the 2025 NFL Draft. Play me that music. Who needs a commissioner Mensch. I'm calling it open the 20 making picks now. 2025 NFL Draft is officially open and we're glad you're here with us. Okay, Tennessee Titans are officially on the clock. I can put away all these notes now about who's going to go where, what teams are going to move up, all that other stuff. It doesn't matter. Although I do want my pen with me. This is exciting because the Titans have been waiting. Let me say this. The Tennessee Titans had a difficult decision to make, right? And there was a lot of remember back early in the process folks. It was a two headed monster. Shador and Cam, right? And yeah the over the over time with coaches getting involved in scouts and general managers and more tape study and the interviews and the private workouts. And all these things. Cream rises to the top and things get weeded out. And Cam Ward clearly rose to the top.
- [66:56]
Steve Mensch
He separated.
- [66:56]
Todd McShay
Yeah, he separated. Okay. And it started with the tape. It started with. With the grind. It led to people getting to know him and the leadership and all those things. And so I don't want to do all a huge breakdown on Cam Ward before, but I'm excited to share some of our insights on Cam Ward. I'm excited to share my. Some insights on Brian Callahan and his journey to get here. But what I'm most excited about, Mensch, is getting your opinion on, like, what is. What are the key spots? What is. What do you. When you were laying in bed this morning, dragging yourself out, complaining of back pains, what is it that you are most, most excited about in this draft and what could happen tonight? Is there a pick or two or so?
- [67:44]
Steve Mensch
When I woke up, it was, what are we going to see with Jacksonville, I think. And then it seemed like one through four were pretty set. And so then it was Jacksonville. Is that going to be Ash and Genti, the running back from Boise State? That was, I think, the first, what I will call the pivot point. And then the Jets, I think, was another one. So that's kind of what I was looking at. And of course, like everyone else, I'm interested where the quarterback's going to go. And then over the course of the day, you start to hear that maybe two is in play. And that made me so happy because a lot of those things we had already talked about.
- [68:16]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [68:16]
Steve Mensch
We talked about for so long about. Yeah. You know, Jacksonville, what they're going to do is going to be interesting. It's no longer Mason Graham, all of that stuff, but it just seemed that the two was done and dusted for so long.
- [68:29]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [68:29]
Steve Mensch
And then to hear it's back in play and that what is Jacksonville going to have to. If it is Jacksonville, what are they going to have to give up to get up there? Who are they taking it? We're all going to assume that it's Travis Hunter. What's Cleveland thinking? Are they thinking they have more needs and they can fill them? Because this draft is. It may not be top heavy, but it's deep. So that was the thing that got me excited over the course of the day. There's pivot points throughout, you know, throughout the first round of, like, if this player goes there, if that player goes somewhere else, you could see how things start to unfold. But it seemed like everything was set for the first five when we woke Up. And so when I heard the two was in play, that was what I was getting fired up about.
- [69:09]
Todd McShay
I continue to get messages. Jacksonville's up to something. I don't know if it's moving up or moving back.
- [69:18]
Steve Mensch
They don't have much time and they're at 5, so they're gonna, it's gonna be soon. They gotta make a move.
- [69:23]
Todd McShay
So it gives us something to look forward to. With the number two pick, right? Could Cleveland. Let's just, let's just ask the question, right? Let's look at Cleveland. Cleveland's got some needs. But like, it's interesting because I view Cleveland's roster as better than a lot of other teams in the top 10. You know, I just, I think. And here you see Malik Collins comes into defensive tackle Tevin Jenkins, a guard Jerome Baker. They lost Nick Chubb, running back Dalvin Tomlinson, defensive tackle Jedrick Wills, offensive tackle. My number one target on Cleveland Brown's notes is what?
- [70:04]
Steve Mensch
Where are you looking at the, where.
- [70:06]
Todd McShay
It says there it is.
- [70:08]
Steve Mensch
Be smart. Don't pass on Shohi Otani.
- [70:10]
Todd McShay
I was trying to give me a softball. It should have been don't pass on Shohei for a certain player. And I use Shohei Otani because whether it was you or Dan, Dan Comer, our.
- [70:22]
Steve Mensch
I think it was Dan. And by the way, Andrew Barry's used it since. And I don't think he's crediting Dan.
- [70:26]
Todd McShay
I don't think he is either. And I, I, I should have put in there, I don't put in parentheses credit Dan. But, but truly, all joking aside, he's got a chance, Travis Hunter, to do something in the National Football League that no one in the history of this beautiful, wonderful league has ever done. And I want you to think about.
- [70:45]
Steve Mensch
Anyone ever could have predicted it either. If you told me five years ago a player was going to do this. Yeah, no team's going to go for that. There's no player with that skill set that you just can't do that.
- [70:55]
Todd McShay
But believe it or not, I grew up and I was a bigger. Like I loved baseball as much or more when I was like young. And I never thought anyone could do what Shohei did.
- [71:04]
Steve Mensch
That's true, too.
- [71:05]
Todd McShay
I mean, you heard stories of Babe Ruth, but it was a different world back then. Travis Hunter has an opportunity to do something and impact both sides of the ball, unlike anyone who's ever done it. I hear Charles Woodson and I hear Champ Bailey. They great players. They'd like to combine six or seven catches their entire career. Great Players, Deion Sanders, the return game. Yes, absolutely. Major factor. And that was a different time in the league. The point is, I look at their needs. Cleveland, right. Obviously quarterback is there, but wide receiver and cornerback are two of the other top three needs, in my opinion.
- [71:46]
Steve Mensch
Okay, what about offensive tackle?
- [71:47]
Todd McShay
I mean, that's, that's the other one I said. But two of the other three needs at the top. So quarterback, corner, wide quarterback, wide receiver. Right? Let's just pull it up. Quarterback, wide receiver, offensive tackle and cornerback. I got my book in front of me. Makes me happy. You look at, you look at wide receiver. I mean, the only bright spot was Jerry Judy, 6 in the NFL. And receiving yards, right. Said career highs and receptions, receiving yards. They traded Imani Cooper. Okay. They don't have another like Cedric Tillman.
- [72:30]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [72:31]
Todd McShay
Michael woods, like, they need, they need more help at wide receiver. Whoever's throwing them the football, it's going to be Joe Flacco in the beginning this year, brought in Kenny Pickett, trying to. Trying to get the cheapest versions possible to overcome the. One of the biggest mistakes in honestly, pro sports history, the DeSean Watson situation. And I give a lot of respect to ownership for Cleveland coming out and saying that was on us.
- [73:01]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [73:01]
Todd McShay
And that was not on Andrew Berry. You know what that does? That takes the monkey off Andrew Berry's back and allows him to go and do his job and gets a fresh start here without media speculation and everything else about, well, you made the desean Watson and people in the league knew exactly how that played out. But until the owners come out and say, say that that's the deal. It was our fault, our decision. We own that. And the Titans are officially on the clock. So. So you're sitting there for Cleveland and then you have a cornerback need. Right?
- [73:35]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [73:36]
Todd McShay
Great secondary in 2023, not in 2024. Okay. Denzel Ward, still a star, but Greg Newsom and Martin Emerson both regressed. So now you could bring in a player that could like, massively upgrade your offense. And I think early on for Travis Hunter, it will be. And it was, it was the reverse, I think. I think anyone who's played football like college level NFL knows with, with meetings and the importance of defense and 11 players all communicating, it's critical that you're a part of that if you're going to play a significant amount on defense. Right? And so the thought early on, even though I said from the beginning, we, we back in October or early November, did a cool exercise where Mensch took Travis Hunter, the cornerback, and I took Travis Hunter, the wide receiver, we broke down, the tape came together and we presented scouting reports. I thought because we both had watched the other side of the ball, but I thought that he was a better. More. I don't say better. I thought he was more advanced and ready to contribute and provide big play opportunities or big play production on the offensive side of the ball. But early on all the talk was he's going to have to because of all the things I just said. Meetings, communication. He's going to have to major in on cornerback and minor wide receiver. As we've gotten closer though, I think a lot of teams are looking at it like shoot right, we need a.
- [75:08]
Steve Mensch
Weapon and not listen. Not all schemes are the same. Do you think that in the Cleveland defensive scheme where they play a lot of man.
- [75:16]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [75:17]
Steve Mensch
Is it less important that you're there for all the. Can you get a not. It's not less important. I don't want to say that. I want to. I want to make sure I word this right. Is it more plausible to do that a corner if you're going to play a man heavy scheme?
- [75:34]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [75:34]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [75:35]
Todd McShay
Absolutely.
- [75:36]
Steve Mensch
So not. It's. It's a little bit different for every team about how you can use them and, and where his, you know, whether he's receiver heavy or corner heavy or how they want to do it, whichever way they want to approach it. If you're playing more man and you know you're just going to lock up the guy you're across from, it might be something that you can do.
- [75:54]
Todd McShay
Here's one thing I will say about this and we can leave it alone. I just got to thinking, I don't know why this is dawning on me for the first second. The only reason in the world, folks, that you would make this deal if you're Cleveland is that you're not in love with any of the other quarterbacks, which the rest of the league aren't. They're not in love. You can really, really like Jackson, dart like love him, but not in love. You can love Shador Sanders, but not in love. We all know the difference. You can love Tyler Shuck, Jalen Milrose, potential, all those things. But the league is about to tell us tonight if you not if you're a team that needs a quarterback, as is the case with Tennessee, Cleveland at 2, Giants at 3 and even to a certain extent the Raiders at 5 or at 6 and the jets at 7 and certainly the Saints at 9, especially now with Derek Carr situation in the shoulder. If you're in love with the quarterback, you take them in the top 10, you don't get cute and try to trade back in and all these other things. So they're not in love. They may love and really like, but they're not in love with any of the quarterbacks named Cam. Not named Cam Ward.
- [77:11]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [77:11]
Todd McShay
One team is in love. Well, multiple teams are in love with Cam Ward. One team has the opportunity to draft him. And I'm saying all that because I'm looking at Cleveland. I'm like, why would they even, you know, like, yeah, it's always great to get additional picks, but they have four picks in the top 94. They've got two third round picks already. So why would you pass up on Shohei Otani to get more draft picks in a draft in a class that you already have 10 picks total, they have 10 picks. That's near the top. San Francisco has the most of 11, so it's tied for the second most four picks in the top 94. You know why? Because they're not in love with the quarterbacks in this class. And the only reason, if you're Andrew Berry, that you make a move out of number two, and I'm not saying it's going to happen, we can move off of this in a second and start talking about Tennessee and everything else. The only reason you make this move out of number two, down to five, let's say with Jacksonville or wherever that move would be, is because you're. You have an eye on next year's draft.
- [78:17]
Steve Mensch
Interesting. Man, that's dangerous in the quarterback class.
- [78:22]
Todd McShay
Next year because Joe Flacco ain't your guy in 2026. Kenny Pickett's probably almost certainly not your guy at any point in time, unless you need him for a stretch during a season.
- [78:34]
Steve Mensch
I, I hear you.
- [78:35]
Todd McShay
Or at least you can't count on that, right?
- [78:37]
Steve Mensch
I'd rather get the, the, the unicorn now.
- [78:40]
Todd McShay
Oh, no, no, I, I'm with you.
- [78:42]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Okay.
- [78:42]
Todd McShay
All right.
- [78:43]
Steve Mensch
It's a dangerous game to play, man.
- [78:45]
Todd McShay
It is a very dangerous game.
- [78:46]
Steve Mensch
You don't know how we've sat here. I don't even know what if you.
- [78:49]
Todd McShay
Go win 10 games this year, what you're capable of doing with that roster I just talked about. And now you got to move up from 24, 25 to number one. And Arch Manning probably is not going to be in the 2026 draft class. Sounds like the Mannings have a plan.
- [79:04]
Steve Mensch
Dangerous.
- [79:05]
Todd McShay
We'll see Arch in the draft in 2027. I'm not saying for certainty, but it's trending that way. And I love Nussmeyer from lsu, but who knows, right?
- [79:15]
Steve Mensch
You don't know how that class is going to be next year. You just don't. You can sit here with all the confidence of the world, but you don't know.
- [79:19]
Todd McShay
But agree with me on this. If you were to make this move and get out of the. We've said from the beginning there's two elite, elite players in this draft class and their names are Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter. So if you're going to move out of the spot and get out of the range, you can't get either of those guys and you can't get Shohei Ohtani. You can't get Travis Hunter who could solve problems on both sides of the ball in areas that are top three. Four needs for you. You do it with an eye towards next year.
- [79:48]
Steve Mensch
So you're thinking you're, you're thinking you're gonna get a first round pick next year out of this deal?
- [79:52]
Todd McShay
Hell yeah.
- [79:53]
Steve Mensch
So if it's Jacksonville moving from five to two, they have to give up their first round next year to do it, I believe.
- [79:57]
Todd McShay
Let me keep talking. I'll pull it up and look but I, I can't imagine you wouldn't.
- [80:02]
Steve Mensch
Wow. I mean that's a lot to move up three picks. I'm not saying that you don't do it because again, the flip side of the coin is if we love Travis Hunter that much that Cleveland has to stay there. Maybe you love him so much that you go up and get him. That's a. That's two. That would be you giving up. Yeah, you'd be giving up two top.
- [80:21]
Todd McShay
Five Titans pick is in. I don't think this is going to be a shock to anyone waiting for the name to pop up.
- [80:30]
Steve Mensch
Here we go.
- [80:30]
Todd McShay
I'm sure everyone watching right now has already seen it, but it's Cammore.
- [80:33]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [80:33]
Todd McShay
As expected. So let's table that for a minute and we'll, we'll get back to. We're about to find out. This is the beauty of the draft, man. It's the best reality, reality television out there. I truly, I've always said that because I believe it. It is unbelievable. We're about to find out with what's going to happen with Cleveland and I would, I think it would be a massive mistake to pass on Travis Hunter. But if you were to make that move, it's with an eye to next year's quarterback class.
- [81:00]
Steve Mensch
So we have seven and a half minutes left on that clock. I wouldn't be surprised if this goes the full seven and a half minutes based on what we're hearing.
- [81:07]
Todd McShay
I agree. All right, let's get to Tennessee. I'm excited for Brian Callahan. If you're a Titans fan watching this, I want you to understand this. This man, Brian Callahan, the head coach. Cleveland trades the pick to Jacksonville.
- [81:24]
Steve Mensch
Done.
- [81:25]
Todd McShay
Shit. Cleveland trades the pick to Jacksonville. They got. Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm glad we talked.
- [81:36]
Steve Mensch
Chaos. I love it. I said this the other day, by the way.
- [81:40]
Todd McShay
What do you mean you love it? You just said you got to take Travis Hunter.
- [81:43]
Steve Mensch
I love it as a. As a fan, I would have said I don't love the move for Cleveland. I love it as a fan of the draft. I love that there's movement. I love that we've had nothing happening with this class for forever. This draft class. Now something's.
- [81:55]
Todd McShay
I wrote it this morning. I wrote it last night. I wrote it last night. I said the. The calm before this storm feels eerily quiet, right? Eerily. This is the first time time since 2014 that a first round draft pick has not been moved prior to the draft. That's 11 years.
- [82:15]
Steve Mensch
Do we know what they gave up? Do we know what the deal is yet?
- [82:17]
Todd McShay
We'll get it in a second.
- [82:19]
Steve Mensch
I'm dying to know.
- [82:20]
Todd McShay
We'll get it in a second.
- [82:21]
Steve Mensch
I know. I'm dying to know.
- [82:23]
Todd McShay
Well, get on your. You have a phone, too. This is. I'm going to love this tonight. I thought. I thought it was going to be like. This is going to be fun. We're. We're in the lab now. Wow. Okay. Let's take a breath.
- [82:38]
Steve Mensch
Are you going back to Tennessee? Taking Cam Ward.
- [82:40]
Todd McShay
Oh, gosh, I guess.
- [82:42]
Steve Mensch
I mean, I think we've talked about it enough.
- [82:43]
Todd McShay
I do. All right, let's make this point because there's Titans fans out there and I do think it's very important.
- [82:47]
Steve Mensch
Okay.
- [82:48]
Todd McShay
And I also like. Let's give it. We've got. We got a few minutes. Okay. First of all, Brian Callahan. I started this off. Brian Callahan has been working his entire career and really his entire life has been in ball. You know, his father is one of the most respected offensive line coaches in the history of the NFL. Bill Callahan, I actually had a pleasure of spending. He is a good friend of Gary Hortons. Okay.
- [83:14]
Steve Mensch
Hell of a coach.
- [83:16]
Todd McShay
And Brian is a hell of a coach, too. Brian's first job in the NFL was as an offensive assistant with Peyton Manning. Okay. He's climbed his way up the ranks. Been fortunate, I always say. It there's no such thing as luck in my life. In my mind, it's when preparation meets opportunity. And he has prepared himself for this moment now. And he's had opportunities and he had the opportunity to be around greatness with Peyton Manning. Opportunity to be around greatness with Matthew Stafford as he was climbing up. Opportunity to be. Opportunity to be around another good, good quarterback, Derek Carr. And watch his. So that's three different quarterbacks who have had different levels of success in the league. Two super bowl winners. Okay. That he's been able to work as he's climbing up the ladder to work, work around. And then the last stop, he gets finally bumped up offensive coordinator. First OC job in the. In the National Football League. Brian Callahan gets Joe Burrow. Part of that process of deciding is Joe Burrow. The pick wasn't a hard decision coming out of 2019. I think it was. And when takes him to a Super bowl, right? Best. I mean Joe Burrow might have had his best season ever this past year. But. But best full season and most successful season. Joe Burrows at in the NFL with Brian Callahan as the offensive coordinator. Write down those. Those picks. Second overall. So the Jaguars get the second overall. Fourth and sixth 2026.
- [84:51]
Steve Mensch
There it is. Yeah.
- [84:52]
Todd McShay
First round pick for the Cleveland Browns. I knew it had to. This is the Cleveland Browns saying we're out on this quarterback class. We're out. We get the fifth pick. We get an additional second round pick. We get a fourth round pick and we got next year's one to package picks to move up to go get a quarterback. Andrew Barry. I respect it. I respect. It is a risk. It is a gamble. They brought in Joe Flacco and Kenny Pickett for this year. They now are loaded up on picks in this draft.
- [85:27]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [85:27]
Todd McShay
We said to begin with they have 10 picks, right? Did I say 10 picks? Second most picks Cleveland has of any team in the draft. They're tied for the second most. Now they've got two additional. So they've got. They've got the most picks in this year's draft. Any team. 12 picks and they've got that one next year.
- [85:51]
Steve Mensch
It's a hole.
- [85:52]
Todd McShay
They better start. They better start recruiting the Manning family. Get Arch in that class. Fascinating.
- [85:59]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Those that the second and the fourth round pick they picked up especially that this year's draft especially those are valuable picks. That's an early second round pick and they still pick five. Now they. They don't fall that far. Now I get it. You're out of the Hunter Carter sweepstakes And now who are they? Who are they targeting at five now.
- [86:17]
Todd McShay
Okay, so let's, let's back up. Okay, let me finish up. So. So Brian Callahan has been working his entire career to get this opportunity and his moment has come. Okay, it looks like Jacksonville just made their pick and we know who it's going to be. I want to talk about the traits a little bit for, for Cam Ward. Cam Ward, I hate putting. I already said it with Josh Allen and Jackson Jackson dart. But I want to provide perspective when I watch the tape. The thing that makes. One of the things that makes Cam Ward special is the fact that his. He like Patrick Mahomes, is so calm and so relaxed in the pocket and he is able to. He allows you just like Mahomes does. They allow you to get another step or two closer to him, to them. And when, when you do now they've kind of out leveraged you, they're going to use your momentum against you and it's easier to get outside the pocket. And they never. There's never a panic. Just like Mahomes. Not the fastest dude, not even the greatest athlete, but good athlete. And they extend and they create and they have arm angles and the arm ability is not the arm talent is not Mahomes like there's a very few. But his arm is really, really good. And you saw there on my traits, he's an absolute assassin at the top of his drop when in rhythm of sticking his right foot in the ground, driving off of it and just snipes you over and over again. But you have to kind of dig in that clip reel and watch those plays. And I'm certain that Brian Callahan did and said, if I can get more of this out of Cam Ward, we got something special. Right?
- [87:47]
Steve Mensch
And there's reason to believe that'll happen. He's an ascending player. He's gotten better every year of college football.
- [87:52]
Todd McShay
He has. And so that's what you're betting on, Tennessee Titans fans. That's what Brian Callahan's betting on. That's what Mike Borgonzi, the new general manager, is betting on. And this, it makes a lot of sense. They cleaned up parts of their offensive line with Dan Moore, left tackle. Kevin Zeitler, right guard, wide receiver, is in a position they're going to have to address early. We'll get to that in the second round. I do think whether it's a Luther Burden from, from Missouri when they come on the clock. Tennessee comes on the clock in the second round at 35. After those, after Cleveland at 33 after the Giants at 34. If the Giants are still picking there. And then at 35, they'll be up and maybe that's Jaden Higgins, the big physical receiver.
- [88:40]
Steve Mensch
Tyler Lockett change any of that for you?
- [88:42]
Todd McShay
It does. I'm glad you bring that up. It doesn't lock it. At his worst year. I just said. Was it 17 years? Did I read that right? That seems like insane.
- [88:52]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, he had a down year. We could leave it at that.
- [88:55]
Todd McShay
I want to look that up. But he had his least productive year of his career last year.
- [89:03]
Steve Mensch
Okay, so you still think it's a sec.
- [89:05]
Todd McShay
I think it's a smart addition. I think you're looking for, oh, since 2017. I knew I saw this. The 17.
- [89:13]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [89:14]
Todd McShay
But he's going to be 33 years old. Okay. So he's probably been in the league 10, 11 years.
- [89:18]
Steve Mensch
I think an edge is a possibility there too, though.
- [89:20]
Todd McShay
Okay, so that's as much as we could do for you Tennessee. Folks like you got to be thrilled. You know, you've known it. There's no drama there. But you know where there is drama. Holy smokes.
- [89:31]
Steve Mensch
There it is.
- [89:32]
Todd McShay
I was. I kept telling you. They did, Dan. That's why we. That's why we got on the phone last night and wrote that McShay report. If you haven't. If you haven't subscribed yet to the McShay report, please do. Just Google it. We have. We're gonna have more info overnight. We're gonna break down tonight. We're gonna give you the top 10 picks. A little flash mock for you. We've got way too early mock draft coming up. We've got a bunch of. So all 32 teams. When this is over, we're going to go through it. Google it. You got until tomorrow night, by the way. $1. We're like giving it away. It's not. It's like more. You know, the papers are worth more than that that you print it on $1. It's. It's Sprint to the. The podium. You get it till May 31. It'll have the way too early mock draft. All right, I'm done selling all the reaction stuff too. I'm done selling all the reaction stuff. Look at. Look at our man Travis Hunter putting on that Jaguars hat. How about the Kuans, the onions? How old is James Gladstone?
- [90:30]
Steve Mensch
How old is he?
- [90:31]
Todd McShay
Someone back there looking up 34, 36.
- [90:34]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [90:35]
Todd McShay
He's a pop. Les Sneed looks like he's less needs down the road in LA from us in these studios. And he's like, that a boy. That's my guy.
- [90:45]
Steve Mensch
Go get your guy.
- [90:46]
Todd McShay
Go get your guy. I said, we started this whole show tonight. If you were with us, the 10,000 people that started in the first 20 minutes, we had 10,000 people joining us for the show. And we appreciate every damn one of you. One of the first things we said was he's, he's a. Les Sneed is a renegade and Gladstone worked under him. And the other thing that we said, and I wrote it in the McShay report, I'm telling you, it's, it's weird this late to be hearing all this noise about Jacksonville. And there, there, there was talks about them moving back in Teterow and McMillan it. And Sunday we said, I'm not here to do this. I'm not going to give myself Tom and John surgery. I'm just saying, like the information that we got all week makes sense now. Yes, it makes sense because we land in L. A and I get a phone call and it's like, hey, chill on the, on the Mason Graham.
- [91:38]
Steve Mensch
I was not Mason Graham.
- [91:39]
Todd McShay
I was calling him Brandon Graham all night. I was so excited. Chill on the Mason Graham going. Jacksonville 5. That's where everyone has them. Remember the GM the day before we got on the plane that I talked to assistant GM actually said to me, stop with the narrow minded thinking things are different in the front than all the rest of the guys that do what you're doing. Like, look at it differently. We started to, it was Ted McMillan, if they move back. And Jacksonville was making calls about moving back or fielding calls to move up because there are a lot of teams trying to move up for Ashton Genti. So this, this stuff ain't over, folks. No, Chicago's trying to move up for Ashton Genti, the running back from Boise State, and Denver's trying to move up for the running back out of Boise State. But then all of a sudden, in the last 48 hours, it's a text, there's a phone call, and I got two people reaching out to me asking, what's with, what's Jacksonville? Why are they trying to move?
- [92:38]
Steve Mensch
Where are they going?
- [92:39]
Todd McShay
No, the questions were, are you hearing the same thing? Is Jacksonville trying to move up? And so we put one on one together and said if they're, if they're willing to move back a little bit, but not too far behind Dallas to get Tetarola McMillan, the big wide receiver out of Arizona, and if they're also making calls to move up, it's Got to be for Travis Hunter. And here we are absolutely wild. I cannot tell you, like, first of all, ownership, Khan family signing off on it.
- [93:07]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [93:08]
Todd McShay
And I mean, you hired the guy.
- [93:09]
Steve Mensch
To do a job. You better put your faith in him.
- [93:11]
Todd McShay
And to have the aggressiveness and the willingness to part ways with a one next year, that's a lot to give up. Jacksonville has not done a lot of winning in a long, long time. And to give away first round picks when it constantly feels like you're rebuilding, that can be significant.
- [93:29]
Steve Mensch
The Giants. Giants pick is in.
- [93:31]
Todd McShay
Giants pick is in. Here we go.
- [93:32]
Steve Mensch
These are rolling, by the way. I thought this was going to take more time.
- [93:35]
Todd McShay
Talk about Jacksonville for a minute. They found an absolute star last year. Brian Thomas Jr. 87 catches, 1282 receiving yards, third in the NFL as a rookie. You came in and we said this. Liam Cohen was. Was instrumental in this pick. And everyone I talked to in the last 72 dating back to Sunday was saying, hey, Liam, Liam is pushing and Liam's gonna get his way. He's getting a wide receiver, he's getting a weapon. It was either going to be Hunter with this pick, which we found out in the last 48 hours they were aggressively trying to do, it was going to be Ashton Jinty. If they picked at five, it was going to be Ted Rollo, McMillan. And they did that mensch because besides Brian Johnson, Diami Brown, Parker, Washington, one.
- [94:21]
Steve Mensch
Year deal for Brown. Yep.
- [94:22]
Todd McShay
And you've got this quarterback, Trevor Lawrence, who now has been in the league since 2021 and is regressing. We got to get him help. We got to get him help. Now. We did it with the. With the head coach who just did wonderful things with Baker Mayfield, spent time with McVeigh, made. Made a second or an early second round draft pick out of Will Levis. This is an awesome decision for Jacksonville and by the way, cornerbacks, arguably their biggest need outside a wide receiver. Travis Hunter is going to do something that no one has ever done in the NFL before. And I see that the pick is in. He's going to be an absolute star at wide receiver with Brian Thomas Jr. For Trevor Lawrence. And he's going to play on the defensive side of the ball where they only had six interceptions a year ago there. It is not shocking. I hope everyone got all that because they had six interceptions Jacksonville did on the defensive side last year. And you just got the player that I said in. In 25 years of doing this. Travis Hunter has some of the best ball skills I've ever evaluated. And now you got those beautiful, wonderful, strong, soft, sweet hands at wide receiver for Trevor Lawrence. And in a secondary that was a major part of a failure in just six interceptions in 2024, Jaguar fans got to be pumped.
- [95:47]
Steve Mensch
Pumped.
- [95:48]
Todd McShay
Abdul Carter. It's moving fast now, baby. Abdul Carter.
- [95:52]
Steve Mensch
By the way, first look into the Giants front office. Joe Shane and Brian Dabel, shoulder to.
- [95:57]
Todd McShay
Shoulder, pumped up Brian. Brian Dable has earned the right is what. And I read some of your comments. I know I've been, I've been beating this horse all week, but I'm beating the horse because it's the accurate information. Shador Sanders was never the pick at three. Shador Sanders is, wouldn't have been. Is not going to be the pick at 34. If they sit there, okay, it's because you have one quality. You have the most qualified person in that building and I would argue one of the 10 to 12 most qualified people in the league when it comes to quarterback assessments, offensive minds, quarterback development, and that's Brian Dabel. And Brian told Joe, Shane and I don't know how pleasant or unpleasant this situation has been inside the building. There are varying reports, but as I said the other day, I said it two different shows. We had let Brian make the decision on the quarterback, let Joe manage this draft. And Joe just did the first step towards what could be a brilliant night for the New York Giants. What could be a franchise changing night for the New York Giants. And I'm not like it's not hyperbole. I'm not getting overly excited because the action's happening. I'm telling you, this could be the night that turns the Giants organization back into what the Giants organization was used to being when I was growing up. If and with Eli for a couple of years, if Joe then now after making the right decision, drafting. I've said we've both agreed and everyone in the league agrees there's two players at the top of this draft, Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter.
- [97:39]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [97:40]
Todd McShay
And Cleveland still agreed and wanted to take Travis Hunter but couldn't give up that haul that was handed to him. And Jacksonville obviously agreed because they just gave away a haul to go get Travis Hunter. And the Giants are passing on quarterback here to take Abdul Carter and they're not moving out of this pick. So now the two best players in this draft went where they deserve to go and that's a 2 and 3 because a quarterback will always trumpet if there's one up there.
- [98:06]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [98:06]
Todd McShay
What are your initial thoughts? Abdul Carter, the New York Giants.
- [98:09]
Steve Mensch
I mean, not only I Love that they didn't take the quarterback here. That's. That's obvious. But also not looking at their roster and saying we already have two edges in Kayvon Thibodeau and Brian Burns and going and getting the best player. It sounds like from the reporting that they're. They're a little soft on Thibodeau and he might be on the market tonight. I love that they didn't look at their roster and say they didn't draft for need. They didn't reach for a quarterback. And I just think that's the absolute right move. Now they gotta. Now they got to complete it, though, because they still need that quarterback. I know they signed a couple veterans and that's fine. They need to go out and get their young quarterback and be aggressive about getting done. I don't care how many players you come out of, of this draft with, if you're the Giants, if you get those two pieces, if you get Carter and you get Jackson Dart, if that's your quarterback, then it's a success.
- [98:56]
Todd McShay
All right, let's start out with Abdul and then let's get into the Giants with it. Abdul Carter, 6 3, right around 250. Didn't even weigh in at the combine. The injury was reported. Shoulder injury, foot injury. He'll be fine. According to everyone I've talked to, there's talks. Does he need surgery? Should he not have surgery? Drew Rosenhaus has done what every great agent would do and put a kibosh on all of it. He can be a little. This guy can be a little feisty. You're bringing in a. You're bringing in a bad man to your locker room and he. And the personality is strong and there were some talks about that. None of that matters. He is going to come in and he is going to be a difference maker and he's going to keep getting better. I want to explain to you why Abdul Carter is going to keep getting better in 2024. Chop Robinson left for the NFL. Chop Robinson. Heck of a rookie year. Chop Robinson, first round pick. Carter moves from off the ball linebacker to edge. Okay. Starts all 16 games, including the shoulder injuries. Playing with one freaking arm. Is that Notre Dame?
- [100:01]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [100:02]
Todd McShay
One arm.
- [100:04]
Steve Mensch
I think he heard it in the SMU game this past year.
- [100:07]
Todd McShay
68 tackles, FBS 23 1/2 to tackles for loss. 7th best in the FBS, 12 sacks. This guy's a monster. Let me go through the. The. The report, okay? 734snaps in in 2024. Second most of all the edge rushers. Outside of Donovan Ezraku from Boston College, his combination of explosive takeoff and then that dip in rip is what? Like the dip and bend is like.
- [100:38]
Steve Mensch
And then the change of direction too.
- [100:40]
Todd McShay
Change of direction.
- [100:41]
Steve Mensch
You. You work everything off of. Of your superpower. Right. And your superpower is that it's ability to win with speed and bend off the edge. But you can't just keep doing that. You can't. It can't be your only. You can. You have to have more than one trick. You know what I mean?
- [100:54]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [100:54]
Steve Mensch
And he can change directions. He can win with his hands. I think that's. It's not a guy that you're going to come in and be like, oh, if we just shut this one thing down. Yeah, he's really good at winning. We've seen guys like this. Remember when Vic Beasley. Vic Beasley came out of Clemson?
- [101:07]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [101:07]
Steve Mensch
And he would just run around, guys.
- [101:08]
Todd McShay
Not a fan.
- [101:09]
Steve Mensch
And then when you figured out how to shut that down, well, he wasn't nearly as effective. That's not Abdul Carter, man.
- [101:14]
Todd McShay
No. Well, that here's the. Hard to paint the picture like there. If you freeze the tape sometimes on Abdul Carter, when he's bending the edge, what he does is he.
- [101:25]
Steve Mensch
He.
- [101:26]
Todd McShay
He stresses you as a tackle and it's back and it's arm out. Trying to use that length of the arm and the arm comes out here. And his ability to bend and get under. And if you freeze sometimes.
- [101:38]
Steve Mensch
Like the matrix.
- [101:39]
Todd McShay
It's like the matrix when you freeze the tape when he's turning the edge. A human body should not be able to be like that. Like that. Okay. Like that there. I'm looking on the screen like that. And bend an edge and do it while dipping under the offensive tackle's arm. And then this is the super continuing to move. This is the superpower. And then accelerate. I don't know how he does it.
- [102:06]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [102:06]
Todd McShay
That's the rare thing. But then. Yes. So an offensive tackle and I've talked to a lot of offensive tackles my years at espn. What, like what. What's the hardest part? Tell me how. Evaluating an edge rusher. What are the. Who are the guys? Why are they. Why are these the guys that, you know, bother you the most? And every offensive tackle I ever talked to and mention, my offensive tackle guru. It's when I'm threatened by both speed and power and then in speed within the ability to change direction. Because I. I can set against Usain Bolt.
- [102:40]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [102:40]
Todd McShay
If I know Usain Bolt has got to only run an arc, I can set against a bulldozer because I can get, I can get back, sink in, I can get set. And I know that. But if, but if as long as that bulldozer doesn't have speed to then beat me once, I'm like this because I got to get down and low so I can't do both. It's the guys that can do both. And he, he, he doesn't have the speed to power yet, but he's going to keep getting bigger and stronger.
- [103:09]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [103:09]
Todd McShay
And that's why I said it's only going to go like this, escalate for Abdul. But then what he can do is he's, they know that, how quick he is and how he turns like the matrix and then that spin move back and the change of direction you referenced. I, I love this pick. Now the Giants pick is in. I know the Giants. Kayvon Thibodeau. I have heard and keep an eye out for this. I fully expect the Giants try to, I mean I know they're already trying to, we talked, we talked about that earlier in the pre show. They've already been making more calls and being more aggressive about getting up into the late first round from that 34th pick. Probably have to package their 99th pick to get to like the mid-20s to go get Jackson dart. I've also heard Kayvon Thibodeau could be part of that deal. So I, I get the strong sense this isn't the last we've heard of the New York Giants tonight.
- [104:04]
Steve Mensch
It's the worst kept secret in the league. Right? I mean they're going to make a move.
- [104:07]
Todd McShay
But I'm also telling you Mickey Loomis is we talk about renegades and less sneed and now his, his predecessor, James Gladstone and the renegade mood move he just made. Mickey Loomis is a scary man. He's a scary man at 40.
- [104:23]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [104:24]
Todd McShay
Because if he likes, if he wants something, he's going to find a way to go get it. And if Jack the Jackson Dart love is as extreme as, as I'm starting to hear, not in love because if you're in love, you take him at nine. But you can really, really love someone and try to figure out if you're in love and if you'd like to date if they like him as much as people are telling me that they do and they tried to keep really quiet. Everyone's talking about the Giants and the mayor of private plane flying everywhere in Cleveland and everyone out in Boulder. Guess who wasn't out in Boulder? Kellen Moore. So that Chicken fight going to be interesting, man. It's going to be fascinating. But that's later in the first round. Back to where we are right now.
- [105:11]
Steve Mensch
Not surprised. You're talking well into the first offensive lineman coming off the board. That's pretty much your M.O.
- [105:16]
Todd McShay
Who'S taking it happened Will Campbell.
- [105:22]
Steve Mensch
It happened a lot of I think New England fans. That's where I'm from, man. That's.
- [105:27]
Todd McShay
Where's Bill Simmons?
- [105:28]
Steve Mensch
They're both upset. There's a lot of England fans upset, man.
- [105:32]
Todd McShay
Bill sounded like he was talking himself into this and I'm glad he has. Here's what I can tell you is the backdrop of this. Of this pick for the New England Patriots. I do believe that they have been in the market and listening to try to move down. I think I do know. I now know Mike Vrabel and this and the key people around him have fallen in love with this human being. His football intelligence, his commitment to the game. And part of the deal, man. And you know this well, part of the deal is when you're starting a franchise or trying to rebuild what was the. The jewel of the NFL dynasty, right? You're trying to bring that culture back and make it your. Your culture, not Belichick's culture. Mike Vrabels. You got to have guys in the building that represent that. Shake your head all you want.
- [106:29]
Steve Mensch
It's great.
- [106:29]
Todd McShay
Let's talk about him as a player.
- [106:31]
Steve Mensch
Sounds great.
- [106:31]
Todd McShay
That back up. Sorry, throw that back up. Tucker. I was too busy talking about Vrabel and how about to earn this during the process? I've heard about. I've heard about meetings in Dallas. I heard about recently another meeting with the top brass of New England. They trust this guy. His football intelligence here, the top traits. Quick, athletic, can mirror master, technician, great grip strength. You have to agree on all these things. Day one leader. You do agree on those things. Now let you take. I'll let you take the limitations areas of improvement.
- [107:03]
Steve Mensch
Well, the limitations. I want to say this. It's not just short arms. It's that lack of length shows up on tape. And you watch Joe Tooney in the super bowl, you know that a lack of length would be a problem.
- [107:14]
Todd McShay
They long armed his ass to death.
- [107:15]
Steve Mensch
He got beat inside against South Carolina. He did not have a great start to the year, man. He. There are some concerns here. Look, my next point. My next door neighbor is named Matt Soso. He's the best human being on the planet. He's a great guy. He works his ass off every single day for his Family. I'm not asking him to be the left tackle for the New England Patriots. It's great to be a good person. It's great to be a hard worker. It's great to have character. I don't draft, and I'm sorry, I don't draft a guy that is potentially a guard at 4.
- [107:44]
Todd McShay
I didn't. I thought I was going to have to be talking Bill Simmons off the ledge on this. I did not know I was going to have to talk Steve Mensch off the ledge with this. And I hope he does well, by the way. In fact, I hope he does well.
- [107:55]
Steve Mensch
Fact.
- [107:55]
Todd McShay
This is a perfect time to take a minute, take a quick break. We're going to bring in Bill Simmons in a second. We're going to get that all set up. I'm excited to have Bill on. Now we're going to have to work all three. Three Boston guys, three Massachusetts guys have to work this thing out. So we. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. We good?
- [111:06]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [111:07]
Todd McShay
All right. There you are.
- [111:09]
Steve Mensch
Nice.
- [111:09]
Todd McShay
Now we see you, too.
- [111:11]
Bill Simmons
Great.
- [111:13]
Todd McShay
Bill, I. I didn't. Here's the deal. I thought I was going to have to be talking you off the ledge with the Will Campbell pick. My good friend Steve Mensch make an introduction here. Steve, Bill. Bill, Steve. He's. He's a Boston guy. He grew up in Andover. He is not a fan of this pick. What's your. Your immediate reaction? Will Campbell to New England Patriots.
- [111:34]
Bill Simmons
Well, first of all, I watched the beginning of the lead up to the draft, and you guys got all sappy and sentimental, so I was already in. I was already in a, like, a bummed out mood.
- [111:45]
Steve Mensch
That's how you want to kick it off, right?
- [111:47]
Bill Simmons
Then the cons traded for Travis Hunter, so good luck to his career.
- [111:51]
Todd McShay
And then.
- [111:52]
Bill Simmons
And then we take Campbell 4, and it just immediately turns into the arms thing. I'm getting texts from people I haven't talked to about this at all. They're like, whoa, he's got some short wings. What is it, an inch? Like, so if it was 33 and a third inches, we're fine. Like, an inch is, like, that big that this is it. He's not going to be able to block anyone on the left side. I don't know. I. I said to Todd for the last two months, like, the difference between number four, five, six, seven, eight, it felt like all these guys were in the same pack. Like, at some point, it is what it is. They need a left tackle. He was the best one.
- [112:31]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I I think. I think the bottom line is if, if it wasn't. If there was no way to get one of the top two guys, and you saw how aggressive Jacksonville was given a first next year to go move up and a lot. I mean, that was a haul to move up three spots to go get Travis Hunter. That's. And, and everyone I talked to in the league, Bill, everyone I talked to, it was, okay, there's these two guys and then it's the rest. And yeah, we'll tear the rest of them. But there was. There's a difference with Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. So I, I agree with your premise, Todd. The. The. The other. The other part is. Hold on, though.
- [113:06]
Steve Mensch
Where did you have Will Campbell on your back board? You say that, but what number was he?
- [113:10]
Todd McShay
I.
- [113:11]
Bill Simmons
Everyone had him between like five and eight, right?
- [113:13]
Todd McShay
12. I had him at.
- [113:14]
Steve Mensch
12'S tough.
- [113:16]
Todd McShay
Yeah, 12's tough. We're talking about four.
- [113:18]
Steve Mensch
It's not just the length. Like, you could talk about the length. And I get that everyone's saying the length. What drives me nuts is the tape's not as good as everyone says it is. Like, that's, that's my problem. He's not the best tackle on tape.
- [113:29]
Bill Simmons
Everyone's always put the pads on.
- [113:33]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [113:34]
Todd McShay
Oh, we're good.
- [113:34]
Bill Simmons
And he banged him around a little bit.
- [113:36]
Todd McShay
We're good.
- [113:37]
Bill Simmons
Like the guy's frame and you know. All right, so if you're going glass half full and Will Campbell started since day one at osu, right?
- [113:45]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [113:45]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [113:46]
Bill Simmons
Was in the SEC the whole time. Thick. Like, not one of those guys who's putting on 40, 50 pounds to just play tackle when he's not really supposed to be built that way.
- [113:56]
Todd McShay
6, 320. Yeah, when he's.
- [113:58]
Bill Simmons
When this guy's 45 years old, he's going to be like 290 pounds. Like he's one of those guys.
- [114:03]
Todd McShay
And he ran a 498 at 319 pounds.
- [114:06]
Steve Mensch
And he's going to be a great guard leader.
- [114:09]
Bill Simmons
Leader man. All right, so when did. When did Nelson go in the Colts? Where did he go in the top 10?
- [114:14]
Todd McShay
12.
- [114:15]
Steve Mensch
It was 12. Yeah, it was not a 10.
- [114:16]
Todd McShay
All right.
- [114:17]
Bill Simmons
If we did that draft over again, is he in the top six? He probably is because he was awesome for them. That's your worst case scenario is he's an awesome guard.
- [114:24]
Steve Mensch
Well, here.
- [114:24]
Todd McShay
Don't know.
- [114:25]
Bill Simmons
What are they going to take Genti? Like, we can't block anybody.
- [114:28]
Steve Mensch
Think about all the other awesome guards that weren't drafted that early. Too though. Like, you know, I get it.
- [114:33]
Bill Simmons
But they think, they obviously think he can play tackle.
- [114:35]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [114:35]
Bill Simmons
And so here's the thing. We see this in basketball all the time where we look for reasons not to draft guys. It's like, oh, that guy's an inch too short. Oh, that guy can't shoot threes. Yet we talk ourselves out of these prospects and it's like this guy's delivered at every step of the way. Now I sound like I'm pro Campbell pick. I wish they'd trade a pack. Like the move was to trade back, but I don't think anyone wanted to trade up.
- [114:57]
Todd McShay
No, the, the only trade that was happening in that range was, was up to 2. You know, come to find out and we, we, we had said that that.
- [115:03]
Steve Mensch
Was Chicago might come up, but they obviously they didn't or I was hoping.
- [115:08]
Bill Simmons
They were going to flip with the Raiders because the Raiders would be scared that Jacksonville was going to take Genty. But now look at the Raiders.
- [115:14]
Todd McShay
They just took, I don't think six.
- [115:15]
Bill Simmons
They didn't need to make a move.
- [115:18]
Todd McShay
I want to go back to this pick for a minute because my, my ranking tells you that I don't love him at 4. But, but I also want to make sure like perfectly clear that this is a team that did not have an offensive line room, a leader like. And you have, you have two assets, three assets. If you're not including off the field, it's Drake May, it's your cornerback Christian Gonzalez and it's Mike Vrabel and not in that order, but it's May, then Vrabel, then Gonzalez in my opinion. And if you can't keep Drake May upright and keep him healthy and he got banged up last year, then it's an. Everything else is a non starter.
- [116:03]
Bill Simmons
If you can't trade back, you have to take the best offensive lineman in the draft. And they felt like this guy was the best offensive lineman and they liked him more than Membo and that's who they took. They couldn't trade back.
- [116:14]
Todd McShay
They were last in pressure percentage last year, 31st in pass blocking win rate, 32nd in run blocking win rate. So yeah, you can draft Ashton Genti, but Bill, to your point, like it would be worse than Saquon in New York right now. Right now. Yeah.
- [116:29]
Steve Mensch
You can't take Genti.
- [116:30]
Bill Simmons
Well, so last year they signed a guy to play left tackle who quits I think in August, right?
- [116:37]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [116:38]
Bill Simmons
Then the backup guy comes in, he's so bad that pff. Couldn't even figure out how to grade him. I think they had. I think he was in the hundreds. There was only like 40 left tackles. I think he was like 103. And you know, I just don't think they were going to do that to Drake. Megan. All that matters. So it's like I said this today. I did a little YouTube short walking around LA today. The, the Celtics took Jaylen Brown, I think third in a draft that everybody had him going seven or eight and they were like, you know what? We have the third pick. We're not trading back and hoping he's there. We're just taking him here and we think he's going to be this good. And I feel like that's what happened here. But I also don't know anybody who would have traded up to that spot. Why are you trading up every. Like, Todd's board has Campbell 12 other people had Campbell 5. Like once we got into the 4 through 13 range, it feels like everybody just had different rankings for every guy.
- [117:31]
Steve Mensch
I don't disagree, but we're not. I saw your, your video. We're not allowed to discuss the fact that they totally mismanaged this. Right. That they, they blew that game against the Bills by, by winning that game.
- [117:44]
Bill Simmons
Can we talk about this really fast? Because they got out tanked by a playoff team. They got out tanked by a team that was 12 and 4. And they did it better than them. They had a coach they were going to fire that they ended up not playing until after the game. They had a third string quarterback who was like, this is great. This is my three hour audition, right?
- [118:05]
Todd McShay
Yeah. This is my one shot.
- [118:07]
Bill Simmons
He comes in and here's what the. The Cleveland gets. They get number five, they get a second, they get a fourth and they get a 26 first.
- [118:16]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [118:17]
Bill Simmons
And so you think like what did the Pats lose by winning that game? Well, we know a lot. Drake, they would have moved back 1, 2, 3 spots. Second round pick, fourth round pick and a 2026 pick from Jacksonville who sucks. They stink. This is going to make them better. Are they going to go 8, 9 next year like that, like worst case scenario, that's the 15th pick in the draft.
- [118:40]
Todd McShay
And this is a national, this is a national show that I would like to point out Giants fans who are sitting there watching like they did the same thing. They could have had Cam Ward.
- [118:49]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, yeah.
- [118:50]
Bill Simmons
But I watched that game and Drew Locke was just awesome. And Seattle sucked. And it was. And I bet on Seattle and it was frustrating. This was different. This was Buffalo outthinking A team that all they had to do was just hand the ball off and run guys into the middle of the line for four quarters and we would have the first pick in the draft and all of this hauls. But I, I'm done. I'm moving 32 and 78 inch arms. I'm happy.
- [119:15]
Steve Mensch
At least it drove the value up for Milton for that trade. So that's good.
- [119:17]
Bill Simmons
I mean I guess that's 15 spots. That was great. But I, the other thing is like if you're trading with, trading with Jacksonville, like that's, you want to do that like in the NBA, you want to trade for Sacramento, that's good business.
- [119:32]
Todd McShay
The Kings, well, especially with that owner and then a 36 year old rambunctious. I give him credit though who runs.
- [119:39]
Bill Simmons
A wrestling, wrestling federation for his full time job and he's like Travis Hunter. It'd be cool if we got him. He thinks he's like playing a video game.
- [119:47]
Todd McShay
I mean he may have just drafted Shohei Otani though.
- [119:51]
Steve Mensch
It's gonna sell tickets.
- [119:52]
Bill Simmons
I did kind of enjoy it. I mean it. Did your mind immediately drift to Michael Thomas and Travis Hunter on the field together? Like that's kind of a nightmare.
- [119:59]
Todd McShay
Yes, yes.
- [120:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [120:01]
Todd McShay
And, and, and the only job that you came in to do if you're Liam Cohen, the head, the new head coach is to fix Trevor Lawrence. This is a hell of a way to start that process.
- [120:10]
Bill Simmons
But don't you guys thought this was a better trade for Cleveland though, right? I mean this, this team, they need assets everywhere. They're screwed left and right. Like you might as well turn this.
- [120:19]
Todd McShay
In the long run. Absolutely.
- [120:21]
Steve Mensch
Potentially. I always get nervous about that because it's great in terms of picks but you got to still pick the right guys.
- [120:25]
Todd McShay
I mean the only reason back and.
- [120:27]
Steve Mensch
Be like oh wow, they blew that.
- [120:29]
Todd McShay
The only reason they, they make this trade. Yes, yes. There's a lot of other assets and now they can move around and they. And this draft is really deep this year in the third, fourth round range. But they made this deal for one reason. They were not in love with any of the quarterbacks and really didn't love. And that's why you heard so much, you've heard so much about the Giants and Jackson dart and New Orleans sitting at 40 behind them in Jackson Dart and we're in for it tonight. There's one. They're going to play chicken. One of those two organizations are going to move up I believe and take Jackson Dart.
- [120:59]
Steve Mensch
But you have game of chicken. Really?
- [121:03]
Bill Simmons
It's like two guys in Pintos driving toward each other.
- [121:06]
Todd McShay
Nice cars, but it's brutal. But they're not in love with any of these quarterbacks. And that's obvious when you pass on. On 1 and 2. But, but even they didn't even love one enough to say, we'll. We'll get a guy that we think we can develop that. This is for next year. This is for Garrett Nussmeier. This is for, you know, quarterback next year. It's that first round pick next year is the reason why Andrew Barry made that, that pick or that, that choice to trade down.
- [121:34]
Steve Mensch
I mean, that makes sense, but I mean, it's a dangerous game to play when you start doing that.
- [121:39]
Todd McShay
You know what's interesting, Bill? All this intel, all these people I talked to in the league, ooh, I think we just lost them. I'll say this to you. All this, all the conversations leading up. Right. Even the. It took a while to get it out. But in the last 48 hours, I've been telling you, in the last 48 hours, I got. I mean, they did say when Bill was done, he'd let us know he's done. Maybe that's him letting us know.
- [122:02]
Steve Mensch
I was too negative.
- [122:03]
Todd McShay
No, but, but, but I was told Jacksonville can move up. Right? We knew. We've known everything so far. The first bit of info, the first action, and I saw you commenters and you're absolutely right. I told you Ashton Jinty is actually not going to be the pick at six. Yeah, that was the first bit of information. And so I credit to John Spytek, the general manager, getting that out subtly, subtly, that no, we're going a different spot. And then to sit there at 6 and white knuckle it and hope that that information that got to Schefter, got to me, got to some other people, got to enough people and the Kelvin Banks stuff, we all were played for the fool.
- [122:57]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [122:57]
Todd McShay
And I do think Kelvin Banks would have been the pick over Memboo had Jinty gone five.
- [123:01]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [123:02]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [123:02]
Steve Mensch
You got to play the board.
- [123:04]
Todd McShay
But great job by. By Vegas, sitting tight, waiting, and they get their guy. They get their guy. And you know what? We. We said it for months and then we had to back off of it. We were right. You know, the late information was right on Mason Graham in Jacksonville. That's one that I look back on. Absolutely wrong. Ginty six to the Raiders. And now Pete Carroll gets his Marshawn lynch gets his beast mode. Right, Right. What's interesting to me about, about the Raiders, the Raiders is they think they're closer than the rest of the league thinks they are.
- [123:43]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [123:44]
Todd McShay
You know what I mean, right?
- [123:45]
Steve Mensch
We said he was a luxury pick for all these teams. Apparently the Raiders. Raiders think they're running back away because.
- [123:51]
Todd McShay
You just brought in a turning 35 year old quarterback right in Geno Smith. So I mean one of the worst offenses in the league a year ago but you bring in Geno, massive upgraded quarterback, you bring in Ashton Genti, massive upgrade at running back and now you're kind of cooking the wide receiver group core from top to bottom sucks. Jacoby Myers had a great year.
- [124:20]
Steve Mensch
How do you really feel, Todd?
- [124:21]
Todd McShay
Jacoby Myers had a great year last year. Okay. Yeah, Brock Bowers is awesome. But there's they and I'm looking at their picks they're going to have to address. They're going to have to bring in another wide receiver but they have other needs with with with Vegas. I think wide I had wide receiver is actually the number one need.
- [124:42]
Steve Mensch
Okay.
- [124:42]
Todd McShay
Okay. They pick again at 37. We mentioned the couple same names. Luther Burden, Missouri. The Debo Samuel comp big physical receiver. Jaden Higgins, six almost six. Four. About two. Almost 220 out of Iowa State. So that may be the direction they go there. But offensive tackle, if there's one that drops that could be the direction as well because their offensive line was. It's got issues. Their guards especially. Fascinating. What a great start to this draft.
- [125:15]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. I mean we thought this was going to be all right.
- [125:17]
Todd McShay
Let's, let's, let's. And Armand Member just went.
- [125:21]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. To the jets which by the way the right move for the Jets.
- [125:24]
Todd McShay
All right. We're getting caught up. It was great having Bill on. I don't know if he's going to come back or not but. And absolutely love having him on his. His perspective I the biggest upset. Okay. Bill, Bill, Bill is. I like the way I'm an Irish goodbye guy. Okay. That's. This is Todd's best, best available. Okay. Tyler Warren, tight end still on the board. Jalen Walker, edge rusher. Bunch of edge rushers including Shemar Stewart, Mikel Williams, James Pierce. Pierce will be interesting to see if he slides a little bit because of the character stuff. But also in there the two tight ends I should say Tyler Warren is number one available. Four on the still available list. Colston Loveland. All right. Jihad Campbell. He could fall tonight because of the injuries. He's ranked where he's ranked because that's the player. But the injury stuff is pretty significant. And the closer we got to the draft. The more I really do think he could fall. He could be at top, top of the best available list for a while tonight. Okay. Okay. When we get there, Jade A Barron, who I love, could be there a while, too. You love who you love. Walter Nolan could be there a while. Character issues as well. Will Johnson could be there a while. We never got to this in the pre show. We never got to this. But I want to give you this list. Mensch, hit me. I've never entered a draft in 25 years of doing this. Okay. And about 17 on TV. I've never entered a draft with so many players that I consider to be 20 of the best football players in this draft. It could wind up going in the late first or fall out of the first entirely. There's so much uncertainty for different reason reasons. Injury and character on different reasons. I don't want to get into any of the specific things here. We're not here for that tonight. We're here to celebrate. But Will Johnson, Jihad Campbell, Mike Green, edge rusher from Marshall, James Pierce, Tennessee Walter Nolan, Ole Miss, Derek Harmon, Oregon. Jade Baron's another one, too. Just because. Is he a nickel, short arms, undersized, all that stuff. So in addition to the trades and kind of the craziness to start off, and I expect there could be more movement. And in addition to the Shador, is he going to 21? And is new York the Giants or New York New Orleans trading up for Jackson Dart? In addition to all those things, we're going to be staring at a board that's going to have some damn good football players on it for a long time tonight. And it's going to be because of some of the outside of the game of football stuff, injuries and character. All right, deep breath, deep breath. Let's get this back up. So right now we've got Caroline on the clock. It looks like they're making their pick. Remember I said we're going to do seven minutes, breakdown of all these teams. Whoa, was I wrong. You can't plan for the best reality TV show out there, right?
- [128:22]
Steve Mensch
It's moving, man. Is it Williams?
- [128:25]
Todd McShay
I.
- [128:26]
Steve Mensch
We're not timid picks.
- [128:27]
Todd McShay
No, I have no idea. Oh, Ted McMillan. Another surprise at eight. Absolutely fascinating.
- [128:36]
Steve Mensch
What is happening?
- [128:41]
Todd McShay
Hold on. Interesting. I've got other breaking news for you. We'll get to Tedro and McMillan in a second and we'll get back to Armand Membo and that fit with the jets minutes after minutes. Listen to this. Minutes after Joe Shane made the announcement that the Giants are taking Abdul Carter with the third overall pick. He then came out and made the announcement Kayvon Thibodeau were applying his fifth year really back with the Giants. I mean there was a lot of reports that he might be a part of a trade to move up or he's on the trade, the trade block. So they, so now if you're a Giants fan it's like good luck score. Good luck on third and eight. Yeah, good luck. And in that division, in that division with that offense in Philadelphia, Jalen Hurts with Dak Prescott with Jaden Daniels, you better be able to get after the quarterback. And now they've got three dudes. Can you imagine third and eight, third and 12, those guys prowling around some NASCAR package who. I like that. I like that a lot. Now let's get, let's get to Tetaro and McMillan. Not my favorite player in the draft. I'm going to let you talk about his, his things. The size and the acrobatic catches are obvious. But what is it about this fit that you love for Carolina?
- [130:15]
Steve Mensch
You see, listen, I think he's better after the catch than maybe some people give him credit because he's such a big guy. He's a long strider. He can catch it in stride. He can give you a little bit of something after the catch. Not, not going to be a gather runs by defenses but he'll make plays downfield. He can come down with 50, 50 balls. I do agree with you. I don't think he's Drake London in terms of the aggression, the, the absolute. I am going to come. There's no such thing as a 50, 50 ball for Drake London. It's always his ball. I see some of those things as well. But you're getting a big body receiver that can come down with 50, 50 catches. Gives you something after the catch can stretch the field a little bit. He's a good player. I think this is a little rich for him. I would agree with you but I did have him as the best receiver in this class.
- [130:59]
Todd McShay
Well how about. How about Bryce Young?
- [131:01]
Steve Mensch
He's got to be ecstatic. This shows also not only like it shows that they're investing in him, that they believe in him.
- [131:08]
Todd McShay
Correct. It's a commitment.
- [131:11]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [131:11]
Todd McShay
And it's a recognition that's got to.
- [131:13]
Steve Mensch
Feel good for a player who not so long ago felt like maybe he was not going to be in that franchise and was. Was going to have to find another home.
- [131:21]
Todd McShay
And I thought as Bryce Young got better and started to, you know, I mean what a turn What a turnaround last year for Bryce Young. But as he started to gain confidence and the offense started to tick, the wide receiver start group started to play better. And Adam Thielen, I mean, here's the bottom line is the talent's not great and that's why Tetaroa McMillan's there. And you look at, like, as much as they played better last year, 62 pass catchers had more receiving yards than Carolina's leading pass catcher. And Adam Thielen, all right, and he's going to be 35 years old.
- [132:00]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [132:00]
Todd McShay
So I do like Jalen Coker. Holy Cross kid, right? Interesting.
- [132:06]
Steve Mensch
Great combine work.
- [132:07]
Todd McShay
But I like him as a three or four. I don't like him as a two. And Xavier Leggette had flashes. We're going to need more consistency. But now we got two. We got two big dudes on the outside, right? And we got feeling in the slot. Saying the most sudden group, right? Like, you're not. There's no ankles that are. We're fearing defensive backs when you go play Carolina, no one's getting an ankle broken with this group. But now, but now he's in his rightful spot. Coker as a three, four, right? Teterow and McMillan opposite Xavier, Leggette and Thielen in this slot. Now, like, now we got some stuff here.
- [132:53]
Steve Mensch
Okay, how about Dan Morgan, the general manager, the former linebacker I know from Miami, University of Miami, and then in the NFL for years, back to back. You got the job in 2024. Back to back, first round, first round wide receivers. I'm not sure I saw that coming.
- [133:09]
Todd McShay
No, that's a great point.
- [133:10]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [133:10]
Todd McShay
That's a great point. And in history, I can remember, like, Detroit did it. Jacksonville had done it like, like 15 years ago or so. This is a bad idea. But the wide receiver position is such a. There's such a bigger premium on it. Okay, so here's. Here's New Orleans, okay? They pick here at nine. We've talked about that. 40th pick. Could they move up for Jackson Dart? I said BPA at pick number nine. BPA at pick number nine is what they've got to do. Then if Kellen Moore wants the quarterback, go get them. Don't wait. Go get them. All right? And so, so as I'm looking at this thing right now. What's bpa? Tyler Warren. I don't. I did at some point think New Orleans could. You never know. The commission, the commissioner is coming to the podium now.
- [134:01]
Steve Mensch
Here we go.
- [134:02]
Todd McShay
What's interesting is they just had a late Workout with Jalen Walker and Mikel Williams in Athens, Georgia. And by all accounts, was it Jalen. No. Mikel didn't have the great day. And they go with Kelvin Banks Jr. I mean, throw these mock drafts out the window. Gone. I mean, it was done. When Jacksonville traded up. I thought for sure this was going to be Cam Jordan's replacement. I didn't. I thought they would go with Mikel, maybe even over Jalen Walker, but they go. Offensive tackle. We did say. What did we say? This tackle group. The first tackle in this group, Will Campbell, would have been the fourth or fifth best tackle a year ago. Okay. In that awesome group a year ago that started with Joe Alt. But they're going to fly off the board anyway because when you get to a certain point with these offensive tackles, it runs out, it's a drought and you can't get one. And so you got. If you need an offensive tackle, you got to go get one. And the jets, who we didn't discuss. How about the Jets? Let's give the jets 30 seconds here. The New York Jets a few picks earlier and they said. And what was the line that they were. They were flying under the veil of secrecy this year, right?
- [135:22]
Steve Mensch
No more nothing getting out.
- [135:24]
Todd McShay
Nothing getting out. No more leaks. And, and, and anything that was leaked out of there was the opposite of arman member. Okay? And they take Armand Membu. And now that offensive line, which was 23rd and pass block win rate, 29th in run block win rate, just got, I would argue, the second most talented offensive tackle in this class in Armand Membu. A great right tackle, a great fit in that zone scheme and a guy that they finally now with Elijah Vera Tucker kicked inside the guard where he rightfully belongs. Joe Tippman at center. And they even brought in Josh Myers if Tippmann doesn't kick it into gear. Josh Simpson at guard. Olufashano, a tackle. The Jets, I've said this before. Three general managers, they've gone back three general managers of me sitting down before the draft writing top needs. And it's a guard, it's a tackle, it's a center, always a need. And they finally shored that up. So good for the New York Jets.
- [136:24]
Steve Mensch
Love that pick.
- [136:25]
Todd McShay
And with Justin Fields and how they're gonna have to run the ball. And Breece hall, there's rumors about him on the trading block. We'll see. But Braylon Allen and Isaiah Davis, they're going to run the football. And now they brought in the best right tackle in this draft and a Guy who's going to be. Who's a. Just watch him on tape, man, the way he moves in the run game. Now we kick forward to that ninth pick. We didn't even mention like we knew it wasn't going to be quarterback there. Right, Right. But I did not, I did not know, as I just said, that it wasn't. That it was going to be an offensive tackle. Even though 29th in the NFL in past block win rate. Right. And last year they drafted Fuaga.
- [137:11]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [137:11]
Todd McShay
To lease Fuaga.
- [137:13]
Steve Mensch
But Penning probably not going to pick up the fifth year option.
- [137:15]
Todd McShay
They're not picking up. And that's what I circled him here on my board. Right tackle for. For T. Penning did not pick up fifth year option.
- [137:24]
Steve Mensch
It's a move towards the future, I guess. I guess you could.
- [137:27]
Todd McShay
Well, he starts at guard this year, right?
- [137:29]
Steve Mensch
He starts at guard this year, which.
- [137:30]
Todd McShay
Is where you want him to this year.
- [137:33]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, yeah. I like the pick because he's a good player. It's a good value pick. I'm not sure Saints fans are going to be as excited about it. I'm not sure how much. How much. I think he helps you more next year than he does in 2025.
- [137:48]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And he's protecting who.
- [137:50]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [137:51]
Todd McShay
So we're going to see if they move back up at 40. Wow, this has happened fast. I love it.
- [138:00]
Steve Mensch
Bears fans.
- [138:02]
Todd McShay
Bears fans. We got a little. Hey, they tried. We talked about the possibility of Ashton Genti, I can promise you this. Outside of Houston and then late Jacksonville, no team was talked about more of Ryan Poles, the general manager trying, trying to move up to go get Ashton Jinty and it just didn't happen. You got to remember Cleveland moved back from two to five already. They weren't moving back again in the next next team on the clock and New England wasn't moving back that far. And you know what? Good on New England. For all all the mensch bashing that's gone on with Will Campbell, at least Elliot Wolf and I and I and I know who's making the final decisions. And I'm sure Mike Vrabel when he said this is my guy, that's it. Conversations over. But also Elliot Wolf was probably charged with. Is there any chance we can move back a little bit and still get Will Campbell? And the answer was definitively no. And we've seen this board now three offensive tackles fly off the board and.
- [139:17]
Steve Mensch
The best one might still be out there.
- [139:20]
Todd McShay
Justin Simmons.
- [139:21]
Steve Mensch
Josh Simmons.
- [139:21]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I'm sorry. Josh Simmons, offensive tackle at 4, offensive tackle at 7 in Membo and offensive tackle at 9, Kelvin Banks.
- [139:30]
Steve Mensch
Three top 10 tackles. Did you see that coming?
- [139:33]
Todd McShay
No, no, no. I thought member was actually going to slip a little bit. I knew Banks was. Well, I, I was told the Raiders, but I also knew there were two other teams that possibly could. Chicago Bears. The pick is in. If you're watching on YouTube with us, we appreciate you doing it. They're doing a tribute to Steve McMichael.
- [139:53]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [139:55]
Todd McShay
And I'm sure you already know the pick, but hang with us as we. As we get it here. I. It's got to be Tyler Warren, right?
- [140:01]
Steve Mensch
I think so. Bears fans don't think they. Some Bears fans don't think they need another tight end. For me it's not about the need though. They did such a good job in free agency.
- [140:16]
Todd McShay
I'm not going to cheat. I'm not going to look at my phone. I promise that I'm not tipping picks.
- [140:21]
Steve Mensch
Imagine Caleb Williams getting a Ty Warn or Colson Loveland. Maybe that's who it is. Who's the best available on your board right now?
- [140:31]
Todd McShay
Tyler Warren.
- [140:32]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [140:33]
Todd McShay
Fourth overall player in this draft, Tyler Warren.
- [140:35]
Steve Mensch
Get him at 10.
- [140:36]
Todd McShay
You get him at 10 and do.
- [140:38]
Steve Mensch
What I said you should have done the other day. And there you go, Ben Johnson, a weapon.
- [140:41]
Todd McShay
And listen, I was. I was yelling at Bears fans because. Because they were going to have the choice Potentially if Ted McMillan went five, they were going to have the choice of. Of Ashton Ginty and Tyler Warren. But even then we asked. It's Loveland. It's Loveland.
- [140:56]
Steve Mensch
Interesting.
- [140:56]
Todd McShay
We've. We've been warned of that. This is great. It makes more sense, honestly. Yeah, it does. Like I for. For the vast majority of teams. But Cole Comet already existing.
- [141:11]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [141:12]
Todd McShay
It makes sense because. Because your new coach man, Ben Johnson, I. We said it a lot like imagine him cooking up in the lab. Cooking up in the lab. 12 personnel. Same things apply whether it's Tyler Warren or Colson Loveland. I want to get into Colson Loveland because I, I think people always just look at him. Colson Loveland, he's. He's the second best tight end in this class. What Colston Loveland is the best at is separating as a receiver. I wrote nearly Bowers level separation on his routes. High Priest can't get higher praise. He just set every rookie record for a tight end. Bowers did okay. Excellent hand eye coordination, the ability to adjust, go up and get the ball. I didn't think they think they used him down the field as much. Okay. And he just turned 21 years old. Lovin is six, five and three quarters, 248 pounds. He's going to get to about 255, 257 stronger. He's going to improve as a blocker because he's not much of one yet. I mean, Mensch thinks he's a better blocker than I do. I think I like the effort.
- [142:25]
Steve Mensch
I've heard that if a tight end is willing, you can work with him.
- [142:28]
Todd McShay
He only had two drops in 20, 24. Okay. And with those quarterbacks, you understand 93rd percentile in separation skills. If you don't trust what I'm saying.
- [142:42]
Steve Mensch
Trust, trust the analytics.
- [142:43]
Todd McShay
Trust the analytics because they match up perfectly here. They don't always at the top of his, his stem, his ability. Like, it's like watching a big receiver. It's like watching almost a Mike Evans or someone. The ability to get out of breaks and the ability to create separate tight ends usually get late separation. They box out, they, they find soft spots in zone. They, they're able to utilize their length and, and kind of wedge. Guys are given a little nudge, you know, at the top of their stem. This guy does it with his feet. That's what makes him different. And now all of a sudden, Chicago Bears fans, Bears fans, Joe Tooney, Drew Dahlman, Jonah Jackson. Right, so we're going to protect the middle, up the, up the middle for our guy, Caleb Williams, our receiving corps is gonna be okay.
- [143:36]
Steve Mensch
This is, this is what I love about the Ben Johnson hire, though. You could have gone with a receiver here if the value was here, right? But you have a guy who's so sharp offensively, all you needed was a receiving threat. It could be a tight end or a wide receiver. And he's going to figure out his offense to make it work.
- [143:51]
Todd McShay
Right?
- [143:52]
Steve Mensch
So if they're, if this tight end, if this receiver class was like it was last year, maybe they take another receiver like they did last year. But because Loveland's a better value here. Matthew Golden's a great player. It's a little early for him.
- [144:03]
Todd McShay
Absolutely right.
- [144:03]
Steve Mensch
You have Ben Johnson, this offensive mastermind. You've just hired him, put him to work, he can figure this out to make this the best offense it could be.
- [144:11]
Todd McShay
I want to remind Bears fans, as if, as if they need any reminder, this was the, the worst offense in the National Football league by yards, 31st on third downs. The most punt per drive offense in the National Football League last year. They were max protection, seven plus blockers. They like the run game was no help. 28th and first down, rushes. Ben Johnson comes in. Now you got three offensive linemen, veteran guys help protect, help run the football. Okay? You draft a tight end here who, as mentioned, and it's a brilliant point. I hope everyone heard him. This. This tight end is a better wide receiver than any wide receiver on the board. Okay?
- [145:01]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [145:02]
Todd McShay
That's why he's there. And he's a matchup piece because now you got Cole Comet, and we don't want to be in seven. Seven men, seven plus protections anymore. But if we got to keep one guy in, we can. But now we can create two. We get safety valves and valves in the middle of the field. Now we gotta. Now we got a big slot, right?
- [145:17]
Steve Mensch
You see, you talk about 12 personnel, which is. Right. It's. It's one running back, two tight ends. That's what, 12 person, in case you don't know that. But you're really multiple now because you go tempo and you don't want them to bring you like. So you go 12 and you've got Loveland in line and they bring in a heavier set to stop the run. Because that's kind of what you're thinking when you see that formation. Now you don't let them sub out and you put Loveland in the slot.
- [145:39]
Todd McShay
Yeah. You motion them out.
- [145:40]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Now A. It's 11 personnel with the same players on the field. That's what's great about this piece.
- [145:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And listen, D.J. moore led the Team 98 catches last year, and what was a dreadful season offensively for the Bears, he still had 98 catches for almost 1,000 yards. And yeah, there were some attitudes, things and all that. Keenan Allen's gone.
- [146:03]
Steve Mensch
Hope it. Dunes A takes the next step.
- [146:05]
Todd McShay
Oh, Dunes A is about ready to step up. And I think in this offensive system, he will okay. And commit 474 receiving yards. He's a. He's a really serviceable guy. But now he's the second feature in that passing game when it comes to the tight end position for Ben Johnson. I love this pick, but I also love this, okay? Because it would have been great. Bears fans and everyone would have thrown a party in Chicago had you moved up and got national Genti. I'm assuming that's what people wanted, but Bears fans are smart and I. And I also assume a lot of you out there recognize maybe that's not the best decision. Let's get a Colston Loveland. I would have thought Tyler Warren. That was my initial instinct. But this makes just as much if if not more sense. Okay. And, but, and they wanted to move up. They, they made calls is my understanding. And we'll maybe we'll never find out for sure because who's going to admit it? But other teams will. But now Chicago still picks at 39 and they pick at 41. And I want to tell you some names that are available potentially at 39, 41. Caleb Johnson, running back, Iowa. Okay. Quinshon Judkins.
- [147:21]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [147:21]
Todd McShay
Running back, Ohio State. You start stacking Omarion Hampton all year, right? Omarion Hampton's not going to be there from UNC and Travion Henderson is not going to be there, is my understanding. I'll be shocked if they are. But DeAndre Swift, that signing just didn't work. 18th in rush yards, but among 31 running backs last year. Excuse me, with 150 carries he was 36, right? Yeah. 30th in 10 yard runs.
- [147:52]
Steve Mensch
They should be targeting back. Yes.
- [147:53]
Todd McShay
In yards after contact per rush. 30thLast in quote unquote successful runs. And then Roshan Johnson's just, he's a rotating backup. He's never going to be more than that. So I think running back with one of those, Those picks at 39 and 41 is, is the, is where they're going to be headed so long as one of those guys is still available. And then defensively I think, I think Chicago is going to be looking at, I mean they defensive line. To me it's defensive line but this, this is a good pick. This is a damn good pick. And honestly when you bring in Ben Johnson you got to put the people around him and that's what this organization. Ryan Poles, Ian Cunningham, assistant general manager, got a ton of respect for him. This is a great start for them. San Francisco.
- [148:46]
Steve Mensch
I'm interested.
- [148:47]
Todd McShay
The pick is in, I've been told Edge.
- [148:52]
Steve Mensch
This is another one of those pivot points. I felt like, okay, come on Rog.
- [148:58]
Todd McShay
It's always good TV when we're just.
- [149:00]
Steve Mensch
Come on man. There it is. Mikel Williams.
- [149:03]
Todd McShay
You're right, that makes sense.
- [149:07]
Steve Mensch
Great value, great fits a need.
- [149:15]
Todd McShay
Mikel Williams, the very first time we did a breakdown on him I came away mildly underwhelmed because he was considered a top five prospect coming into the year. But then you do the research and you recognize that he has the ankle injury suffered against Clemson and he gutted it out. And then you start, you start watching his movement skills and yeah, the, the, the production wasn't awesome. Okay. He was a three year player, two year starter, 40 games played and the production never quite matched up. Four and a half sacks as a freshman. We all thought he was going like this. Ascending. You see there Todd's targets, best combo of OT DL in the first two rounds. Well, they just got the best edge rusher for their system. Okay, and now back to Mikel. Mikel is 20 years old. He's still 20 years old when drafted. Okay. He turned 21 this summer in June. And he had his sack production wasn't great. You thought four and a half sacks, you see all this talent, and we expect him to be like a 12:15 sack guy. Right. First of all, he had the ankle injury. Second of all, this is the thing that goes really unnoticed. He had the fewest snaps of any of the edge rushers in this class. Only 402 snaps. So the opportunity was Pierce.
- [150:37]
Steve Mensch
It's not Pierce. Huh?
- [150:38]
Todd McShay
It's not. He actually had like 20 more snaps. That's why I jotted this down. He had the fewest snaps of any of the edge rushers. So the sack production wasn't there. But part of it's because he's. He's on an ankle you can watch. I mean, mention you and I talked about it. There are times when you see him wincing it out, but I'm betting on the traits. He's just 20. He's got the longest arm of any of the edges in this. In this entire class. Over 34 inch. 34 and 3 eighths inches. Okay. He will long arm you to death. Wait till he goes up against Will Campbell.
- [151:12]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [151:14]
Todd McShay
Which won't happen for a while playing for San Francisco. But my point is those long arms to get into guys, bodies, flatbacks. And the thing about him too, he's a damn good run defender right now.
- [151:26]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [151:27]
Todd McShay
And that stuff travels like that's coming with him to the NFL. All right. Strong at the point of attack, tough to move, excellent shooting his hands in, stacking. And as a pass rusher. We got work to do. Is like developing his plan, his counter moves. 14 sacks, 40 games. We talked about that. The production wasn't there, but he's got this quick inside cross the face of the offensive tackle move. He's long, he's powerful. He just walks guys back. Oh, I love this pick for San Francisco. I think everyone who's watching this knows what just happened. Hold on.
- [152:06]
Steve Mensch
I had a really good point. It's out the window.
- [152:08]
Todd McShay
Hold on one second. This team needs. They need to reset in a lot of places on the defensive side. Full circle in the San Francisco defense. Okay? They're on their fourth defensive coordinator in four years. Second straight. One and one and out. Defensive coordinator. Okay, so they bring in Robert Salah, who. Who knock him if you want. Jets fans, head coach, all that. What happened when he was gone? That defense fell apart. This guy can coach D. You got Bosa on one side, you need a guy opposite him. And San Francisco's Gonna. They got 11 picks in this draft. They're gonna have to go out and get a defensive tackle. They're gonna have to go out and get a cornerback. You gotta go out and get a linebacker. And they also have an offensive tackle need. But I'm telling you this right now, I'll be shocked if San Francisco doesn't spend like at least three of the first five picks, but maybe it's like four out of five on the defensive side and this is a great start. Michael Williams is going to be a great player. You know, who's going to help the 20 year old learn how to master those pass rush moves.
- [153:06]
Steve Mensch
Great point.
- [153:06]
Todd McShay
Nick Bosa, one of the great technicians in the league right now. That's an awesome fit for San Francisco. I love that pick. As you're trying to rebuild, this defense is falling apart. And if it sounds like I'm rushing through, it's because I'm rushing through. And I hope 49ers fans know that's about all I wanted to share on that pick. And we'll get back to you in round two, but I'm not going to sugarcoat stuff when it happens and I'm. I think that this. I get what Dallas is doing and I get. Everyone says you get to pick 11, 11 through 35 is all the same. But I don't see. And I also know that Tetaro and McMillan, who they coveted, was not there. But I do not see how you draft guard Tyler Booker@Pick12 if you're the Dallas Cowboys. I just don't see it. There's plenty of good guards, whether it's a converted tackle moving to guard or a true guard playing guard that you can get in day two of the draft. And Dallas is straight up the board, if I remember correctly. Yep. They pick it 4,000, 476. They could get a guard at 44.
- [154:13]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [154:13]
Todd McShay
Meant you can get. You could find me a guard at 76.
- [154:16]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [154:17]
Todd McShay
I. Tyler Booker, the human being. Tyler Booker, the football character. He is the closest thing coming out of Alabama since Will Anderson. Everyone raves about this guy. He's amazing in terms of like the leadership. Legendary speech to this team. Nick Saban's gone. Caitlin DeBoer comes in. Wasn't the same regime. There's different ways to win and to coach. Right? Knicks was different than Caleb's. Caleb, it sounds like. I'm saying he was running a looser ship. I'm not saying that. It was just different. And there were some players that thought, oh, Dad's gone, Nick's gone. Yeah, we can. And he, he held a speech or held a meeting for the team and gave a legendary speech. Everyone in Tuscaloosa, Tuscaloosa knows about it. He grabbed the team together and he told him about the accountability to be an Alabama football player and broke some, some grown men in that locker room down. And so I love that and I love what he's about. But, and I love him as a run blocker and I love him in this scheme. There's not many teams that are running that pure gap, gap power. Okay. And he's strong and he'll help in the run game. But, but you can't draft, you can't draft this guard this early. This early.
- [155:53]
Steve Mensch
He's not Quentin Nelson.
- [155:54]
Todd McShay
He's not Quentin Nelson.
- [155:56]
Steve Mensch
Quinn Nelson is as nasty as people remember Quentin Nelson being. He's an athlete.
- [156:00]
Todd McShay
And I wrote down here the gap heavy teams. This would work with Dallas Green Bay, Rams, Vikings, Titans. So it works. I get all of this, but I want to share something with you folks and it is what it is. He had the worst all around workout of all offensive linemen. They were like 60 something offensive linemen at the combine this year. A 27 inch vertical, 710 broad jump and 21 bench press were all the worst. Not guards, not interior offensive linemen, all offensive linemen on tape. I don't see the, I don't see the quickness, the mirror.
- [156:46]
Steve Mensch
Great length, great toughness, great smarts. He makes up for a lot of his weaknesses. But at the end of the day, there's still those flaws that can get exposed to the NFL.
- [156:54]
Todd McShay
And so I'm, yeah, I'm not. Here's, here's what I hope. It's important for Cowboys fans to understand this. He's going to be a damn good starting guard, right? For a long time. He's going to bring leadership and he's going to bring all that stuff that we talked about Will Campbell's bringing to New England. I think Booker's bringing more. I actually think he's a better leader. I actually think he's got like, I love this guy. But I, but when you're drafting a guard at 12, it better be A guard that is not putting on the worst athletic and all around workout of all offensive linemen at the combine.
- [157:38]
Steve Mensch
It's the year of the guard. I should be happy.
- [157:40]
Todd McShay
Yeah, you should. And it's. And honestly it's not about Booker there. It's about what could have been in. In this in the place of this. And I'm looking at this Dallas team and they need wide receiver and I love Matthew golden. If they don't love Matthew golden going a different direction. But they need edge, man.
- [158:01]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [158:02]
Todd McShay
And we're looking at a board now with Jalen Walker, Shemar Stewart, James Pierce.
- [158:08]
Steve Mensch
James Pierce, Mike Green.
- [158:10]
Todd McShay
And I get there's character things and Shemar Stewart, the production wasn't great and Jalen Walker's I guess the same guy. So like yeah, we could figure out the reasons why it led them there and they probably tried to trade back. But take best available shoot. Take Tyler Warren. Jake Ferguson had. I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous. I'm not saying to actually do it, but bring in Jalen Walker and use him as another versatile piece.
- [158:39]
Steve Mensch
Just don't do that. I get it's a need. It's a. But it's a major reach for need and it's not your most pressing need and you can find other ways to fix to address that problem. Don't do that again. I'm not against people being.
- [158:54]
Todd McShay
What about credit? Just a great damn football player and Jade A. Barron.
- [158:59]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [159:01]
Todd McShay
Walter Nolan. This is. This isn't a ministry we're running in Dallas. Some places it's. This is. We're not. This isn't like a church group.
- [159:13]
Steve Mensch
No.
- [159:13]
Todd McShay
In Dallas. So you so pick your poison with some of the character stuff. James Pierce, Mike Green, Walter Nolan. One of them has to meet the standard. I don't know.
- [159:31]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [159:32]
Todd McShay
I get and I respect and I like all every other pick so far. 12 for Dallas is the first time where. And again you. Yes. You short up an offensive line and I. And it's worth like let's dive into it. But it's already the fifth best run run blocking unit. If you're going by run by run blocking win rate. Sorry, but it's the 24th best in pass blocking win rate and we just brought in an offensive lineman that. That is not the most athletic guy. And I get what happened in the off season. I'm not ignorant to it. Zach Martin. Martin retired. Yep. Tyler Guyton, he started a left tackle, did a good job. Terence Steele was. Was. Did a good job. But like still needs work. Terrence Steele struggled but Tyler, you've got a left guard who's a stud. So now we just drafted at 12 overall a right guard and people who don't know, like left guards, the, the, the premium. It's like left tackle first. You drafted a right guard at 12. Okay, I'll move on.
- [160:48]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [160:49]
Todd McShay
Who's up, men? Keep me.
- [160:51]
Steve Mensch
The Dolphins just took Kenneth Grant, defensive tackle for Michigan. Great fit for their scheme because he can move up on the defensive line and he's got a really high ceiling. I would have gone in a different direction. I think Derek Harmon can do some of the same things that he does. Does. Maybe doesn't have the, the ceiling, but definitely has a higher floor. So I don't mind the pick because he's a talented player who fits a need and is a great fit for them. But I would also say if you're nitpicking, there are probably better options at this point in the draft. He's just a little inconsistent for me on film.
- [161:23]
Todd McShay
Oh, I agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. But, but the good lord in heaven above you love this line.
- [161:30]
Steve Mensch
I love it too.
- [161:32]
Todd McShay
Only makes so many 331 pound men that actually can move the way that Kenneth Grant does. Okay. And, and yes, I like, I saw the flaws. I think, I think there's inconsistency when it comes to Kenneth Grant in terms of his, his viciousness. There are some plays where you see it like he, he is, he's decided to go. I will say this though, and there are other plays where he doesn't. But I will say this. They played a ton of snaps. I don't know if I have it written down here. I should. But he, he played an, an outrageous number. He and Mason Graham played an outrageous number of snaps. So when you're 331 at 6, 3 and 5, 8 inches, you gotta, you gotta decide when you're gonna go or not. There you see top trades, smooth moving, behemoth space plugger. But, but with some range. When he's fresh, when he decides to go. Here's the thing that I think is most important for Miami Dolphins fans. He's not Dexter Lawrence, I promise you. But I want you to remember back. I. Dexter Lawrence coming out of Clemson was not Dexter Lawrence now.
- [162:42]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [162:43]
Todd McShay
These big guys are hard to find. I gave mention speech the other day. Think about like, think about when you walk around the grocery store, go out to restaurants. In your day to day Life, how many 330 pound human beings do you see? Almost none. Then I want you to Think about how many of those dudes are still hungry. And I don't mean like have an appetite, like motivated. Most of them are £331. Got there because they're not motivated and driven. How many of those 330 pound guys are athletic? And I promise you, not any of them that you're walking around, you see in everyday life. My point is this pool of human beings is so small. And when you find a 6, 3 and a half, 331 pounder with 10 and an 8th inch hands that runs a 50740 yard dash, you develop them.
- [163:33]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [163:34]
Todd McShay
And that's what happened with Dexter Lawrence. And Dexter Lawrence has become almost a sack machine dude.
- [163:38]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [163:39]
Todd McShay
Okay. And I'm not saying he's that level, but I am saying there are flashes when I watch the tape and I see some of that like Jalen Carter, Dexter Lawrence. Holy shit. This man that big should not be able to run down a running back from behind. Shouldn't be able to get to the sideline when he decides to go. So now you go to the league and you're not playing 700 snaps. I think it was like 730 snaps or something crazy. And so now you get to the league and you, you're playing 50 snaps a game? No, not even. What am I talking about? He'll play 35 as a rookie, something like that. TV timeouts. He'll get those flashes now, become who he is as a player. I like that pick from my end.
- [164:22]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, the movement around a little bit too. We'll play that four eye there a little bit kick inside for a more traditional defensive tackle spot for the pass rush. He's a good player, man. I would have, I would have gone Derek Harmon.
- [164:34]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I know you would have.
- [164:35]
Steve Mensch
You would have too, right?
- [164:36]
Todd McShay
But Derek Harmon has some. The injury stuff is a little bit point.
- [164:40]
Steve Mensch
We don't know what we don't know.
- [164:41]
Todd McShay
And that list, man, I'm starting to get nervous because it's starting to play out the way some people told me.
- [164:46]
Steve Mensch
Right? I know you're excited to talk about the next one though.
- [164:50]
Todd McShay
I know. Give me one second. Will Johnson, Jihad Campbell, Mike Green, James Pierce, Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon. That's the list of players that all are top. Top 20 for all of them. Harmon. I think I had a 20. Let me look right now. 23. So 23 of the best football players in this draft could all be pushed late first and some into the second round. So that's, that's a trend we'll be watching throughout tonight. All Right. Miami, you got a. You got a really good like I just like that fit for them, right? They. They got a bunch of needs. They need corner. Jalen Ramsey's on the way out. Toronto Armstead retired. They need corner and offensive tackle. But they. They also need. They've got to get tougher versus the run. And. And they've lost. They've lost some guys. And now you got Zach Siegler right With. With this big boy up. Big cat up front. Like I like. I just like it.
- [165:44]
Steve Mensch
The Colts don't have to go. Don't have to move. And they get their guy.
- [165:48]
Todd McShay
Unbelievable.
- [165:49]
Steve Mensch
Get their guy.
- [165:50]
Todd McShay
The unbelievable.
- [165:51]
Steve Mensch
Best tight end in this class.
- [165:53]
Todd McShay
Unbelievable. I love this.
- [165:56]
Steve Mensch
Oh, look at that. That's cool.
- [165:57]
Todd McShay
Cool. I. I love the fact men is now watching the draft. He's not. He's not participating.
- [166:04]
Steve Mensch
Not true. Not true.
- [166:05]
Todd McShay
He's not participating. Watching the draft. Can we get you. Do you guys. Can we get some like food delivery for men? Tyler Warren. I. I said this the other night by mock draft. You've had him here for forever in the mock draft. I put him here that mock. It's not worth the paper is printed on. But. But $1 is less than the paper costs to print. So McShay report. Google it. Subscribe.
- [166:34]
Steve Mensch
Sprint.
- [166:35]
Todd McShay
We got a bunch coming out. Sprint to the podium. $1. You got to end tomorrow night. Okay. And that deals off the table and you can't get them. You're gonna come back here by McShay. Can I just get the $1 so I can go way too early. Mock draft that by the way of all the stuff that I do I did@espn.com. all the stuff.
- [166:52]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [166:52]
Todd McShay
It's the Piper and I used to be like the top of the subscriptions because of the mock drops. You know the thing that was viewed the most, which is crazy the way too early.
- [167:01]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [167:01]
Todd McShay
So you're going to want to get involved if you like this. If you like this stuff. Tyler Warren. I had him going 14. Here's what's interesting to me. Okay. You look at. Back at Shane Steichen, right? And I said because there were some. Because in my mock draft I had Colson Loveland maybe falling a little bit. And I actually I thought Denver's going to go trade up for. And so I was. I had Denver taking him at 20. So I had Warren still there. Doesn't matter. What matters is Dallas Goddard back when he was in 2022 when he was the OC. 55 catches, 700, 705 yards and even the Year before that he had a lot of production. Steichen was there. I believe Goddard looks like Tyler Warren. Like they're built similar build the way they were. Okay. Similar type player. It's just Tyler Warren's a hell of a lot better than Dallas Goddard in my opinion.
- [167:57]
Steve Mensch
Dallas guard's pretty good, but I hear.
- [167:59]
Todd McShay
You and I love Dallas Goddard, but I had an early second round grade on him. It was a really good grade. It was a fair grade. And Goddard has gone on to have a really good career.
- [168:07]
Steve Mensch
It's exactly once he got in the league.
- [168:08]
Todd McShay
It's exactly what I thought Goddard could be, but he wasn't there. Warren's there. That's the difference. Okay? And you look at last year for the Colts. This is not Colts fans. I'm not surprising you here, but I want you. I want you to hear these names. Kylan Granson, Mo Ali Cox, Drew Ogletree, Will Mallory. They combined four tight ends. It took 39 catches.
- [168:31]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [168:32]
Todd McShay
Okay. And now we got Warren, who comes in 56 career games, 31 starts, 153 catches, 1839 yards and 19 touchdowns. He also carried the damn ball 32 times.
- [168:45]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, you hear that?
- [168:46]
Todd McShay
Six touchdowns.
- [168:47]
Steve Mensch
He had 44 because he was a John Riggins fan. He runs like John Riggins.
- [168:51]
Todd McShay
This guy is a. He's a big ass running back when he gets the ball in his hands, okay. It's not. He doesn't separate. I told you. Doesn't separate like Colston Loveland, but uses that frame and a good route runner for what he is. For what he. Because he's six. Five and a half. 256. All right. Strong, confident hands. I love his catch radius. Three drops this past year, 87th percentile in drops, plucks on the run. Everything's smooth and easy with this guy until he gets the ball and then it's anything but smooth. He is violent. He's the closest thing coming out in the NFL draft. Tyler Warren is the closest thing coming out in the NFL draft that we have seen since Rob Gronkowski was drafted by the Patriots. Okay? He said it, I said it, and I'll own it. And I love this spot for him because it's such a necessary spot, but my goodness, we need to find a quarterback now in Indy.
- [169:55]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, you do. You got to figure it out. That's. That's obvious. But I will say this. I love that both of these super talented tight ends, maybe they didn't go as early as people thought they would or I thought they would, or they deserve to go. I love that they end up at the right spots. I think Loveland's a perfect fit for Chicago and it's going to work out great there for the him. And I think Warren's a perfect fit for the Colts. So both of these players in a position to really realize their potential.
- [170:19]
Todd McShay
Yeah, this is a big year. This is a big year for GM Chris Ballard. It's a big year for head coach Shane Steichen. They had to retool the defense, by the way, Luanna Rumo comes in.
- [170:34]
Steve Mensch
Having a weapon like Warren should help you out in terms of those quarterbacks, too. You're going to get sorted. You're going to get it sorted out this year.
- [170:40]
Todd McShay
100%. This is what this is. And he's the ultimate security blanket. And by the way, the offense ran through him. It absolutely ran through him in Penn.
- [170:48]
Steve Mensch
State, a tight end, the focal point of an offense.
- [170:51]
Todd McShay
He's not a great blocker. He needs to develop as a blocker, but he didn't. He also never had to block because, like, literally the offense ran through him.
- [171:00]
Steve Mensch
You don't. It was hard to evaluate him because.
- [171:02]
Todd McShay
There weren't many reps. How about that USC game? Man snaps the ball, goes and catches the ball down the field. What do you have, 17 catches in that game?
- [171:08]
Steve Mensch
It was crazy. Crazy. I will say. When you're talking about the blocking, though. The Boise State game, they had him come off the ball early on and it did not go well. So you're right, he has to develop. And.
- [171:19]
Todd McShay
And our good friend and recently retired, although he's going to help coach out in Division 2 is Frank Leonard. Frank was. Was with us as a O line coach, tight end coach at Richmond and has gone on to coach tight ends everywhere in the league. Boston College, all over the place. And. And most recently was at Penn State as an offensive assistant. And he texted me starting back before. It was actually January, before last year's draft. He was texting me about Warren. His dad's at Richmond. He was a Richmond safety. Family of sports, athletic family.
- [171:56]
Steve Mensch
We thought Warren might come out last.
- [171:57]
Todd McShay
Year, but was telling me about his football character and how hard he works and how committed he is. I mean, Colts fans, you are getting an awesome human being. You're getting a football just junkie. And Frank Leonard gives you this kind of stamp on it. I promise you he's the right guy. How about this? His father, Terry, played football at Richmond. Safety. I said that. Sister Kelly played softball at etsu. His aunt Tracy George played soccer at Delaware. Grandfather Steve Warren played football at Wake Forest. Grandma Julia Warren, best athlete of the whole family, played basketball at Carson Newman. And Tyler has two degrees in advertising and public relations in telecommunications. There it is.
- [172:44]
Steve Mensch
Finally.
- [172:46]
Todd McShay
Wow.
- [172:46]
Steve Mensch
We knew that Falcons needed an edge. And I, I knew.
- [172:50]
Todd McShay
So you're gonna announce the pick if you're gonna jump into it. Do you understand that's what I'm doing right now?
- [172:55]
Steve Mensch
You didn't even give me a minute. You go on for 35 minutes on every pick. I said the Falcons need an edge. And I never thought the Georgia's Jalen Walker would last this long.
- [173:07]
Todd McShay
Tell us about it, Steve, because my daughter's right. I don't.
- [173:11]
Steve Mensch
Here's the concern about Jalen Walker and maybe why he fell this far is because he is, is he a tweener? Is he a hybrid? I think he's a hybrid. He's a hybrid off the ball linebacker, edge rusher. You don't take inside linebackers generally much higher than this. The, the positional value just isn't there. But this guy's a weapon coming off the edge. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that he's a smaller, shorter edge. And I think some teams probably were a little scared away by the frame and by the, the split snaps that he did play off the line a fair amount. But to me, this is the guy that's going to get after the quarterback in the NFL. And if you need a guy to, to give your pass rush a boost, and the Falcons definitely need that to get him at this point in the draft, I think is a home run.
- [173:52]
Todd McShay
It's 6 minutes and 29 seconds left on the clock. Match care. I've talked too much, right?
- [173:57]
Steve Mensch
Oh, my God. Don't make me sweat. You know I'm not, I'm new to this. Yeah. Again, this is on my board. He was the second edge. Now you're, you'll see that he does play off the line back off the ball a lot. So how they split him up, how they use him will be interesting to see. But when it's third down, you don't draft the guy this early. You don't draft the guy at this point in the first round for him to play off the ball. Linebacker.
- [174:25]
Todd McShay
Absolutely not.
- [174:27]
Steve Mensch
I would thought you would love this pick.
- [174:29]
Todd McShay
You love this. I do. But you little testy. It's dinner time. No. All joking aside, I, I, I actually saw up on the screen whoever whatever service it was, it was less than 1% chance that Jalen Walker was still here.
- [174:50]
Steve Mensch
They said stays home in Georgia too Which is cool.
- [174:54]
Todd McShay
Let me tell you about Jalen Walker the human being too. That's the first thing I got to report on him. Not Jalen Walker, the edge rusher converted from and still doing off the ball linebacker. Not the explosive speed off the edge. Not any of that. It's that this guy's the absolute alpha dog. And I got news for you. There's a lot of guys that want to be the alpha dog at Georgia. A lot of five star guys. They came in, they were the alpha dog in high school. They were top five in their class at their position they might have been one in the country at their position. And Jalen Walker was the only Michael Williams great, loves the game, does all the right things. Kind of soft spoken. Jalen was the guy. Okay, so you're getting a player. This, this. How long have we been talking about Atlanta's defense? They need an edge rusher and for the fort goodness sakes need like someone to take the reins of this damn defense and like let's go. This has been like kind of a joke. They can't get after the quarterback. Where's the, where like where's the identity of this defense? You just drafted him. Jalen Walker's the identity of this Atlanta Falcons defense now. And I'm telling you, he's going to come in. I mean it was, things were so bad. 27th. It's like every year edge rusher. Atlanta needs extra. 27th in pass rush win rate. Okay. I thought, I thought this past year Ebiketti did was okay, you know, but Judon, like that was a disaster. Third round draft pick for Matthew Judon. Five and a half sacks. See ya. They signed Leonard, they signed Leonard Floyd. I get it. Eight and a half sacks. But yeah, they need to get younger and get explosive. And this is a, this is a big. Jimmy Lake was let go as the defensive coordinator. Now they bring in Jeff Albrick. He was the, in the interim head coach of the Jets. Okay.
- [177:03]
Steve Mensch
And all the way was working with Will McDonald. Another. Maybe not the same kind of frame, but a lighter edge rusher. That really worked out for the Jets. Yeah, they had some smaller edges with the Jets.
- [177:13]
Todd McShay
Lean. He was lean.
- [177:14]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. They. Ulbricht knows how to work with these guys.
- [177:16]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And Jermaine Johnson wasn't. But, but, but, yes. And then. And he was supposed to work with Hassan Reddick, but.
- [177:23]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [177:23]
Todd McShay
That didn't really work out. But the point being this was a desperate need. I had heard that they would, they would kind of overlook even some of the character stuff. And maybe it was a James Pierce here, maybe it was a Mike Green here, but you get Jalen. Like if you're a Falcons fan, this and this draft can have. Could not have started off better. And there's only five picks in total. Well, this is the first of five. And Atlanta picks again at 46. And then you don't pick again unless there's a move until day three on Saturday. So this is an absolute home run. Jalen Walker from. From the person, the leader to the explosiveness on the field. Item is the second best edge in this class. Breakout season. 622 snaps off the ball, linebacker and edge combined. Butkus Award winner. 14 starts all 14 games. 10 and a half tackles for loss. Team high, team high. Six and a half sacks. You know what this guy did? I forgot this and I'm glad I read this in my notes real quickly. He played on punt coverage because he decided he was going to. No one asked him to. How many? 5 stars I just mentioned on Georgia. They got plenty of guys to go cover a kick, cover a punt. He played on punt coverage the entire season. It wasn't just in big games. The whole season, his explosive bunch burst like. I don't think there's anyone faster in this and I know James Pierce runs faster and all that stuff. When you see, when he sees ball and goes to hit ball, no one gets from point A to point B faster than him. I love that pick.
- [179:01]
Steve Mensch
Great pick.
- [179:02]
Todd McShay
All right. Arizona Cardinals, right?
- [179:04]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [179:04]
Todd McShay
Walter Nolan. I love it. I got news for you, folks. Walter Nolan is the most talented interior defensive lineman in this class. And yeah, there's. There's some character stuff and nothing horrible. No incidents necessarily. Nothing, nothing to be worried about there. But I don't know where. But what I can say about Walter Nolan is he needs to. He needs veteran leadership and he needs to look at him physically first. I said most physically gifted hands are as quick as his feet. I love that about him. On tape. Menacing power as both pass rusher and run stoppers.
- [179:57]
Steve Mensch
Sub. 300 pound defensive tackle. This guy's got a lot of power.
- [180:00]
Todd McShay
Oh, My God, you're right. Six four, 296. My goodness. I wrote he needs a veteran defensive line group.
- [180:08]
Steve Mensch
And who did the Cardinals just sign? Calais Campbell.
- [180:11]
Todd McShay
Calais Campbell. So that's honest. Honestly, could you think of a better.
- [180:15]
Steve Mensch
Guy to enter someone coming in?
- [180:16]
Todd McShay
That's a great point, Mensch. That's a great point.
- [180:20]
Steve Mensch
Someone who loves that organization, went back there after being there for years and.
- [180:24]
Todd McShay
Wants to come and help, right? Not just on the field, but in.
- [180:27]
Steve Mensch
Leadership, I love that.
- [180:28]
Todd McShay
And Walter Nolan, this is your shot, man. This is your shot. And people have been complaining. He's been chasing the money since high school. Three different high schools, two different colleges, all like, well, now you get first round money. The 16th pick, block out. Everyone get, get the externals out. Okay? It's about you and your career and it's time to focus because I'm telling you, Walter Nolan has talent to be one of the top five, seven defensive tackles in the NFL. If Calais and the guys can develop him and get him right and get him focused on, on this all the time. I want to also say this about Walter Nolan and I've said there's a, like a delineation line for me. Like one of the reasons I didn't love Tetarola McMillan and some other people is because I saw it on tape. I saw, I heard the reports about only practice. Only like gave it in practice this past year when scouts were in town, when Jed Fish wasn't there. Foot on throat. He wasn't going to do it. And then I saw it on tape. I wouldn't have known about that stuff had it not been for the background check, the background stuff that we do. But I saw it on tape. I've said to you, when I was done with this tape, lack of, lack of focus, attention to detail, putting on routes. Don't. There's something about the temperament and that's why everyone was comparing him to Drake London. And I was saying, I was saying he's not the same dog. Well, with Walter. Yeah, the, there's, there's not consistency the other six days because of a lot of stuff that's honestly not his fault. Externals. Okay. Let's just put it that way. So now it's time to go and bring it like isolate your life, move on, buck everyone else out and get there. Because I never saw on tape him take a frickin snap off. This guy plays his ass off. He wants to be great. He just hasn't had, has not had the supporting cast around him to allow him to flourish and go be great. So now go lock yourself on with Calais, right?
- [182:38]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [182:39]
Todd McShay
Get in the off season program, work out, learn from him.
- [182:43]
Steve Mensch
I mean, I wrote my report. Good luck blocking him with one man and then good luck blocking him with two sometimes that he, he's that kind of a player that you gotta account for him on, on every single play. And I know that some people are concerned about the pass rush and it's maybe not there yet. All the tools, including the motor, all of the tools are there for him to be a disruptive pass rusher in the NFL.
- [183:03]
Todd McShay
And they needed other. They needed linebacker. They needed cornerback. They went with Walter Nolan and a position they need.
- [183:12]
Steve Mensch
They, you know, starts up front, though.
- [183:14]
Todd McShay
Dalvin Tomlinson and Calais Campbell, like that. That's not going to last long. They drafted Darius Robinson first round last year. But this had. This group has a chance to be really damn good next year. Right? It does all start up front. And you'd like to believe John and get Jonathan Gannon just got, like, just got a serious piece of. Of that defense that they can help. They can help them build around and get towards the future. I just got a report for Tucker. Thank you for every. Everyone who's been here. I said I want to get to a hundred thousand tonight. We're at 112,000.
- [184:07]
Steve Mensch
Awesome.
- [184:07]
Todd McShay
What's up? Thank you. I feel like it's like a telethon.
- [184:11]
Steve Mensch
Worst high five ever. Let's go.
- [184:13]
Todd McShay
Thank you for the support. Yeah, there was no. There was no click, click, clack in there, but that's awesome. We appreciate, like, this is the first time we're doing it. We're learning on the fly. You know, we're not perfect, but. But I'm having a blast and I hope you guys are having fun watching one of us.
- [184:28]
Steve Mensch
Let me twist in the wind for a minute.
- [184:29]
Todd McShay
Minute there. I know I just stopped down. That was. That was not good. That was not good tv. As they say. Bengals are on the clock. Love that pick from Arizona. Let's look at the. Let's look at the board when we have a second.
- [184:41]
Steve Mensch
I think this might be your best available coming off here.
- [184:44]
Todd McShay
Let's look at the board when we have a second here in terms of best available. But Walter Nolan just came. Look at how quickly. Hey. And. And thank. Thank you to everyone who's watching in the support all week long, all month long, all six months long, dating back to October 22nd when we started this venture. It has been awesome to see the response that we've gotten and how much we've grown even in the last month and especially in the last like five, six days. So thank you. And like, we're going to keep growing this thing and we hope that you're here to stay also. Tucker, Dan, Connor, Eduardo, every. Jonathan, Mark, Mark, like. And everyone else, Felipe, Matt, James, like, this is. This is an awesome group that we're working with. The fact that I just call up. Call that up and. And what happens. Call it up. Best Available. Cincinnati Bengals on the clock. Best available. It all lines up. Shamar Stewart. Texas A and M. Edge rusher.
- [185:51]
Steve Mensch
I like when we get to talk about players that over the course of the process were exciting for us. And this was a guy that we watched in a hotel room in Alabama and both looked at each other being like, you know, it was pretty quiet to be honest with you. And then you put out a video, a video on X where I couldn't rewind all of a sudden.
- [186:12]
Todd McShay
And yeah, you suck with the remote.
- [186:15]
Steve Mensch
But it was still great. I mean this was a guy that when you look at the numbers you might think to yourself like, like what are we doing here? He's just. The production's not great in terms of the numbers. By the way. The pressure numbers are really good and that's something that we, or me specifically, we need to lean in into going forward what those pressure numbers look like. But when you look at the sack production, you're not, you're not blown away.
- [186:37]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [186:37]
Steve Mensch
Do you have the numbers there? Do you know?
- [186:38]
Todd McShay
Yeah, of course. I'll give you all of it. I'm okay. I'm a believer in this guy.
- [186:42]
Steve Mensch
It's the tape. We have always been about the tape. And what's the tape tell you?
- [186:47]
Todd McShay
The tape tells me that he is the arguably the most Tracy player in this entire draft.
- [186:55]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [186:55]
Todd McShay
If you're talking about the full picture. Okay. Shemar Stewart is 656 5, £267. He has arms that you that a lot of these left tackles that we're talking about with 33 inch arm, they would kill to have 34 and an 8 inch arms. He Listen to these traits. We'll get to all the rest of it in a minute. At that size, 267lbs, 6'5 this top end speed at 459 is rare. He had top five result results in all edge rushers in the 40 yard dash which for fourth 10 yard split. I always told you and that goes back to all the years of scouting and Bill Polian telling me how he built that those defenses. He needed closers. And how did you find closers on turf? As he was saying back then, think Dwight Freenie and the rest sub 16 second 10 yard splits. That's where he could identify it. And he wouldn't draft a guy for that defense if they ran 161 or above.
- [188:00]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [188:01]
Todd McShay
Shemar ran a 158 and he did it 260 freaking 7 pounds.
- [188:06]
Steve Mensch
Wide receiver time.
- [188:07]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Broad jump 107 or 10 11. Best vertical jump, 40 inches, second best of all edge rushers, okay? Right off the jump. He's an outstanding run defender. He's tall, he's long, he's physical, he is nasty in terms of his effort and his fight. He just fights through everything. Okay? And here's where I when with Trayvon Walker and these are similar traits. And Trayvon Walker was the number one overall pick. I have Shemar Stewart at seven in this class, okay? And I put him at seven knowing he might fall to the late first. I put him at seven knowing that Shemar Stewart on a lot of teams, boards is in the twenties. I put him at seven knowing that like every defensive lineman that I talked to, including like Pollock and everybody else, they don't like this guy because he doesn't get home. And there's like, there's in scouts, a lot of scouts didn't like this guy, right? And didn't believe in this guy. But when you study him on tape, the difference between him and some other guys that haven't worked out, and I want to remind you, Rashawn Gary was talked about the same way, didn't have great production at Michigan. Look at him now in Green Bay. Daniel Hunter was talked about the same way. One and a half sacks his final year at lsu, third round pick. It cost him. Look at him now. Trayvon Walker struggled his rookie year, took him a little bit. Think like five, five and a half sacks. You know what he's done the last two years in Jacksonville? And I'm not saying, listen, take Aiden Hutchinson number one. They should have. But Trayvon stayed healthy and that's why John Dorsey took him there. And while staying healthy, he's improved in the last two years. Trayvon Walker's got 20 and a half sacks the last two years. So Shemar Stewart is, is tracking along with those guys. The other part of it is I didn't see in Trayvon Walker the torso, flexibility, right? That one of the biggest keys when studying pass rushers is when they have a power element to their game. Some guys are straight line power. Yes, they can jack you up and they can walk you back. What I tell you about offensive tackles, they're like, yeah, fine, bring a, bring a tank at me, I don't care. I'll sink my hips in, I'll lean back and I'll be ready for it. But when you, but the difference is when you have flexibility to get him up like that and then, and then work around and to advance the rush while still engaged, that's what great pass rushers do now. His instincts and his awareness and locating the ball sometimes is frustrating, but that can grow over time. He also was using a defensive scheme where he's, he's holding the gaps and kind of, it's, it's gap control and then work off of that. Same thing with Trayvon Walker at Georgia. I think this guy has actually more pass rush upside than Walker did coming out of Georgia. And you talked about the hurries. Only one and a half sacks last year, like Daniel Hunter's final year at LSU. But 33 hurries, right? So he's getting there. And, and then the motor. I want to tell you, I want to finish that story that mentioned. I know we got Gray's able, just got drafted by Seattle. Good for my mock draft. Great for John Dorsey in Seattle. We'll get to that in a minute. When we were watching tape in that hotel room in Mobile, Alabama, one of the games we were watching was Missouri, right? The game at that time was 31 to 24 to 3. On snap 48, 45. And I kept going like snaps 45 to 55, okay? In that, in that, that play, the 45th defensive play, snap for Texas A and m through snap 55, it's 24 to 3. And then later in that 10 play sequence, it's 31 to 3. And this guy's playing like it's the fourth quarter in a three point game in the CFP National Championship. And when I talked to a GM that I respected this last week, when I said, I've got him at 7, I know I'm going to get burned on draft night, he's not going that high, but tell me you at least see some. And he said, I've got him in our top 10. And he said, because this guy, he goes. And I told him the Missouri story of you and I. I told him the story. I said, we were sitting in a hotel room, Mobile. And that's what got me, was the motor. And he goes in the game, he goes. He goes, you probably didn't watch every other snaps. He goes. Because we're considering them. It's every snap of every game, including the games that were blowouts at teams. It didn't matter.
- [192:38]
Steve Mensch
And then you saw it. I know the way he left the Senior bowl was unfortunate, but when he was there, the competitiveness was outrageous.
- [192:45]
Todd McShay
So the Bengals with, with, remember Trey Hendrickson, that situation, I have to believe they're going to get that figured out. And now we get like, now we get something to cook with.
- [192:59]
Steve Mensch
I hope they find a way to keep Henry.
- [193:01]
Todd McShay
The Bengals were 27th in sack percentage last year, 21st in pressure percentage. So if nothing else, we're climbing up in pressure. Hendrickson. And it was Hendrickson, then everybody else. He led the NFL in in sacks and pressures last year. Okay? He led the freaking league in sacks and pressures, yet they were 27th in sacks. It's because there were 36 sacks total. Yeah.
- [193:29]
Steve Mensch
I hope they figure out a way.
- [193:29]
Todd McShay
He had nearly half of them. 17 and a half. Now you got a guy opposite him, and this is a defense that there's no money left. It's got to be here. It's got to be tonight and tomorrow night and Saturday. There's no money left. They can't take care of Hendrickson right now because we backed up the Brinks for Joe, as we should have, and for Jamar, as we should have. And for T, as we maybe should have.
- [193:53]
Steve Mensch
I'm not a cap guy. There's no way they can do it.
- [193:57]
Todd McShay
With Hendrickson. Yeah, yeah, they can do it. They can do it.
- [194:01]
Steve Mensch
I feel like there's always a way.
- [194:01]
Todd McShay
Right. They need to get Howie Roseman's cap guy. All right, moving on. Zabel, Seattle, another guy.
- [194:10]
Steve Mensch
Right. The draft starts in Mobile. It certainly did for him.
- [194:13]
Todd McShay
And it ends in la. And I think in la we're telling that story tonight, baby. Seattle. I wrote this. I wrote this down today. The offensive line is a mess for Seattle. Gray Zable comes in. He the biggest thing in my report. And Gray Zable I put at the very top. He just moves differently than every other interior offensive lineman in this draft. Yes. He's only a great fit in a zone blocking heavy scheme, while you found one there in Seattle. It's perfect. He's smart, he's tough, he's nasty, he's a brawler. He moves differently than every other offensive line. You see it here in the top traits and 5 position flexibility, plus Senior bowl standout. And why is the Senior bowl standout thing important? Because when you look back and when you're small school guy, you're watching tape against guys that aren't playing in the league every week. Almost just about every week. And so you're like, yeah, this is awesome. And he moves really well and he's. And he's getting some push and he's not a guy who's going to get drive you, but he's going to get in position, get his hands in, bring his hips around. I'll let Mensch tell you all the specifics. But bigger picture with him, he goes down The Senior Bowl. And that's the opportunity these small school guys, especially in the trenches, they've got to shine at the Senior Bowl. He goes down there and like Tron Armstead, right? Cody Mock and all the guys before Quinn Minors.
- [195:38]
Steve Mensch
I mean that list, I mean those two names alone would be enough.
- [195:41]
Todd McShay
He goes down there. Ali Marpet, Dylan Ray Dunes, Dylan and Cody, both from North Dakota State as well, all went down there and kicked ass. And you know what he did? He looked across at Georgia, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Omar Norman, Lot Walter Frickin Nolan who just got drafted slightly ahead of him, Ellen from Ole Miss, Jared Ivy from Ole Miss. Going up against these guys, okay, practice and then the game. Not only did he kick their ass so badly that he went from like a third rounder to a first rounder. He was voted by all the scouts as the scouts as the best player practice week player in the entire place. And so now he's the next in line of all those great guys. None of them, I don't believe one is high.
- [196:33]
Steve Mensch
I don't think so as.
- [196:35]
Todd McShay
No they didn't. I'm just looking at the list again. None of them went as high. 453 pass block snaps in 20, 24, one sack allowed, two QB hits. I know you love those numbers but.
- [196:46]
Steve Mensch
You, you, you always get a little carried away with these guys though. He cannot play offensive tackle in the NFL.
- [196:51]
Todd McShay
I know, I know. I said five. Okay, so let me expand. He is a guard or center who in a pinch can play tackle. But he's got 32 inch arms. He's not going to hold up on the, on the outside. But I want to remind you that this offensive line is a mess. 28th and run blocking win rate. 21st and pass block win rate. And to be honest with you, they weren't even that good. They had a damn good quarterback behind him getting the ball out. Because Geno Smith's a veteran, knows what he's doing other than Charles Cross. This like what's Abraham?
- [197:21]
Steve Mensch
Lucas is a good player. He hasn't been healthy. He is a good player.
- [197:24]
Todd McShay
Correct? Yes, but missed, missed nine games. So now you get Lucas back and.
- [197:28]
Steve Mensch
You hope that he stays healthy. And if he does, you're okay. That's why this is a great pick because your problems really are the middle of that offensive line.
- [197:33]
Todd McShay
Yeah, but remember Lake and Tomlinson, Left, right. Connor Williams retired out of nowhere in.
- [197:40]
Steve Mensch
The middle of the season.
- [197:41]
Todd McShay
And, and what do you think he's gonna be best at in the league?
- [197:43]
Steve Mensch
I think he could be in. I really believe he can be an all pro center. I think it might take him some time. I don't think it's as easy as maybe some others might say, oh, he snapped here, he snapped there. He's just going to move inside center. It takes more time than that to adjust to a new position. But when you look at the athletic traits, the way he moves, how quick he is, how balanced he is, he is born to play center, in my opinion. He's just got to be able to get the snapping down. In the meantime, I think you have a starting guard.
- [198:07]
Todd McShay
Seattle. Seattle. Awesome start. You got four more picks. 50, 52, 82, 92. But we got to go somewhere. We got to go somewhere. Hey, hey. Let's not forget, when we wrap things up on Saturday, Sunday and Monday for this year's draft and start to move on to next year's and everything else we're doing, let's not forget to pull that clip. When Mensch said there's no way he goes in the first round, or I bet him that he actually would.
- [198:36]
Steve Mensch
Okay.
- [198:36]
Todd McShay
All right. When men should be. I forgot about the whole. That's not what I said. I forgot.
- [198:41]
Steve Mensch
That's not what I said.
- [198:41]
Todd McShay
What did you say?
- [198:42]
Steve Mensch
I said he shouldn't go in the first round.
- [198:45]
Todd McShay
Well, the man that.
- [198:46]
Steve Mensch
I can't control what people do, the.
- [198:47]
Todd McShay
Man that shouldn't go in the first round just went a mecca. Buca wide receiver goes pick number 19 overall.
- [199:00]
Steve Mensch
It's the good Guy draft. We're all just drafted good guys to.
- [199:02]
Todd McShay
The Tampa Bay Buccaneer. Tampa Bay Buccaneer. Yeah. When you have all those players I'm talking about with injuries and character issues.
- [199:08]
Steve Mensch
It'S really showing up. It is really showing.
- [199:10]
Todd McShay
I promise you. Yeah, so that's two of the, like, that's three of the highest character. Best interviews you've ever had. Like, there are reports literally coming out a mecca. Buca Will Campbell, Tyler Booker. 3. The best interviews, like, I've ever had.
- [199:25]
Steve Mensch
It's the Good Guy draft.
- [199:26]
Todd McShay
It's a good guy draft and a draft full of bad like. Of questions. Sorry. Of issues.
- [199:33]
Steve Mensch
Right. Good player, by the way.
- [199:36]
Todd McShay
Don't.
- [199:36]
Steve Mensch
I hate that I'm gonna get painted as a guy who doesn't like this guy.
- [199:39]
Todd McShay
I don't care. I'm done with that. It was for the bit. Let's move on. The wide receiver. This is interesting, right? You talk about a commitment the Buccaneers have in this offense and their quarterback, Baker Mayfield. And Baker. And you know what? It's needed. He. If you're Going to make a run in the playoffs. It's going to be on Baker's shoulders. And Mike Evans missed three games last year of injuries. Not getting any younger, but I mean, still stud. I'm stud. He just found he pulled off at the very, very end. And call it what you want, but, but the thousand yard streak is alive, right? With Jerry Rice. Tied with Jerry Rice. Eleven straight years, a thousand yards. But getting to, I don't say towards the end, but he is on the back. He's in the back nine. Okay, then you get Chris Godwin, one of the best receivers in the NFL, but he dislocated his ankle. All right.
- [200:37]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, they worried about that when you're looking at it. They re signed him, remember, because the story was a New England. No, I offered him the world.
- [200:48]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [200:48]
Steve Mensch
And couldn't get him out of Tampa.
- [200:50]
Todd McShay
And you got Jalen McMillan who's been just okay.
- [200:54]
Steve Mensch
Jaylah McMillan's pretty good for a rookie, man.
- [200:56]
Todd McShay
Yeah. For a third round pick who is just okay.
- [200:59]
Steve Mensch
Oh, man, I'm higher in Jalen McMillan than you are.
- [201:01]
Todd McShay
But I'm saying now you got a BUCA and now you got four receivers. When everyone's healthy and right. And. Excuse me, here's the thing with the buca. You think about Ohio State, right? And I get all of them didn't, most of them didn't play. But he's, he's the school record with 205 career catches at Ohio State. Why it's not nothing wide receiver. You now, LSU fans would argue and certain other schools will argue. I want to explain this. When I was, it was Haskins year, it was Nick Bose's year, the NFL draft, there were other star players coming out in that draft. I was at Ohio State's pro day, okay. And ESPN wanted me to talk about anybody but Terry McLaurin. But the only people, the only person, the only player that people in that building wanted to talk to me about was Terry McLaurin. And then he goes and run like he goes out and runs like a 4, 4 something better time than people thought. And then I got more people coming home. I got like, I got like the cafeteria work. I got like, like the, the equipment staff. Like Terry's the guy. Terry's the guy. And look at what he's gone on to do. It's the same stuff now in Columbus about a Mecha Buca. And I, I, I gave this comparison and it's, it's outlandish, but I stick by it. Like, yeah, you can go in the club and there's like the, the hot one, right? Girl or guy. I assume a lot of our crowd is males, but we got some females here too. So you go into the club and there's like the rich guy who looks good and all that stuff, right? And you go in the club and just that really, really hot woman, right? And like they jump out. They've got. They get traits that jump out. When you watch a Mecca buka on tape and you're like, maybe first round, if you just like dropped in this plane, you start looking at him, you're like, I don't like. He's not, he's not the tallest, not the biggest, strongest, not the fastest. He doesn't break ankles. What's. What, what. Then you compare that to like the girl in the, in the crowd that you hang out with in a group of friends, and you guys are always hanging out and you're having fun and she, she makes you laugh and then something happens. You need something, she's there for you and you're having a bad day and she picks you up and then you kind of really like. I kind of like. I like who I am around this person. I trust this person. Oh, maybe it's more than just we're buds. Maybe there's something there. That's a Mecca buka. That is the experience watching tape with a Mecca buka. You watch them and there's nothing special. There's nothing flashing. There's not six, four, there's not four to nine. There's not like all these stuff that, that typically you equate with the 19th overall pick in the draft, right? The first receiver.
- [203:40]
Steve Mensch
Thanks for making my point.
- [203:42]
Todd McShay
The, the first receiver taken. Six foot four, acrobatic, Catches hot in the club. Looks hot in the club.
- [203:47]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [203:48]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [203:49]
Steve Mensch
She's the other woman. Sounds like a second round girlfriend too.
- [203:52]
Todd McShay
A Mecca. You marry and you, you stay married for 60 something years and you have kids and a family and you grow old together, right?
- [203:58]
Steve Mensch
Because you hit on the second round.
- [203:59]
Todd McShay
And you have a happy life. You have a happy life. Okay. He is so silky. Some of the beautiful women in the.
- [204:07]
Steve Mensch
Club are all right too, by the way. I don't know why I have to sell them short.
- [204:10]
Todd McShay
You ever seen that? The, the. The. What is it? The, the ratio, like crazy hot and crazy.
- [204:16]
Steve Mensch
Oh, we are on a slippery slope now, my friend.
- [204:18]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's getting long. Silky smooth. Crafty route runner doesn't waste any movement. He is the quarterback's best friend. Baker Mayfield is going to. To absolutely love this guy. Yeah.
- [204:28]
Steve Mensch
And you think about the. How long he was there because he kind of brought this up and it just popped in my mind. He was. He's there for that. That amount of time because all these other guys are so good, they leave. And that's one of the reasons why he got the record, which still shouldn't take away from the fact that he got the record. But he was also there that long with Brian Hartline. And if you were building a wide receiver, the, the receiver coach for the Ohio State Buckeyes, you want that guy to be with Brian Hartline as much as humanly.
- [204:52]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [204:52]
Steve Mensch
I mean, he is the best of the best. He's going to get the most out of every single player. He. This kid's pro ready. I mean, he's going to come in and play right away. But when you're talking about those traits, I see him more of a second round guy.
- [205:07]
Todd McShay
Baker's going to be there for a minute. And now this old wide receiver group is now getting a little bit younger.
- [205:12]
Steve Mensch
Right?
- [205:12]
Todd McShay
Okay. The running. The running back room. The running back room just got real young last year. Right. Don't we agree?
- [205:19]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Bucky Irving. Yeah.
- [205:21]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So now you got. Now you're keeping Baker. You know what I mean?
- [205:25]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [205:25]
Todd McShay
I like this. And I get it. I know they needed edge, but you're passing on some character. Question marks at edge and linebacker injury. Question marks with Jihad Campbell.
- [205:36]
Steve Mensch
Good guy draft.
- [205:37]
Todd McShay
To get a guy. To get a good guy, a durable guy and a damn good football player as a slot receiver. Your guy.
- [205:47]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, your dude.
- [205:49]
Todd McShay
What did I.
- [205:50]
Steve Mensch
Both of us like this?
- [205:51]
Todd McShay
I had this suspicion, you know, it's so funny.
- [205:53]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [205:53]
Todd McShay
I kept saying to you, he gets his jokers later. Sean Payton gets his jokers. Say that. But then I sold out and I went with a joker in the first round. Not that I care about, but this.
- [206:02]
Steve Mensch
Is the equivalent of a joker. Right? This is a guy that can do a lot of different things.
- [206:07]
Todd McShay
Jade A. Baron, Cornerback, Texas, Denver Broncos. And Jade Baron, I've got him at. I put him. I finally put him at 14. Because I recognize. Yeah, you got to deal with the arm length. Yes. You got to deal with the size but best instincts and eyes of any defensive back in this entire class. Master class. Zone coverage. Cornerback, he could play corner. He could play nickel. He could even play some safety. Shoot, I saw him lined up in the A gap and. And blocking. He will work through traffic. He fights his ass off versus the run. And you know what? I love tackler. The thing that I can't remember ever writing this down for a defensive back. Yes. He's got the ball skills and interceptions and make big, makes big plays. He's got magicians hands, right? And why do I say that? Because for a short arm guy, okay. When sifting through traffic, he's just like. And he's never looking. It's like a magician. It's like I'm looking one way. Look at the right hand while the left is doing. Doing the trick.
- [207:09]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Slight hand.
- [207:10]
Todd McShay
Okay. And this guy, whether it's sifting through traffic and working around stuff and getting through stuff that he shouldn't get through at his size. Okay. He shouldn't get through the A gap sometimes as an undersized cornerback, but he does because he's so instinctive. He plays so hard and he's got these magicians hands. 29 and 5, 8 inch arm length. That's a red flag. You circle that when you're writing a report on a cornerback. Okay. Five, ten and a half, 194. Tightly packed, but not that tall. Not long, but he ran a 44 and everyone's.
- [207:49]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, he did okay.
- [207:51]
Todd McShay
All right. Because he's all right. We just got a reminder. Steelers are on the clock. We'll get to this. Shador watch in a second. But I'm much more interested in Jade Baron and what he can do for Denver. Like Broncos fans, you just got one of the best football players in this entire draft. And, and I talked about the magician's hands. This is the trade I don't think I've ever talked about before. And the pick is in his ability when the ball is there and to meet the ball and to take into rest of the ball. We see Andy Weidle, our good friend there in the, in the, in the draft room for the Steelers. They're excited about the pick. No, wait a second.
- [208:33]
Steve Mensch
Whose house are they at?
- [208:34]
Todd McShay
All right. I don't know.
- [208:35]
Steve Mensch
But.
- [208:35]
Todd McShay
But the way Baron separate separates the ball last second. Broncos fans, you're going to love this guy, everything he does. What's going on? What's going on? Why. Why is there a camera in Jackson? Darts those.
- [208:50]
Steve Mensch
What is happening?
- [208:52]
Todd McShay
The pick is in for the Steelers. I'm sure everyone on our.
- [208:54]
Steve Mensch
But they didn't say it was him.
- [208:55]
Todd McShay
No, I know that. I'm just saying the towels are waving. This is the spot we, we said all day it's a soft floor, but it's a floor for Shador Sanders. Everyone's wondering, is this where Shador goes, the second quarterback in this draft? Is there going to be A second quarterback in the first round. We've talked about the. We talked about the Giants trying to trade up. Does beg the question why are the Giants trying to trade up and potentially the Saints trying to trade up to go get Jackson dart. But it could be Shador here.
- [209:30]
Steve Mensch
Wow.
- [209:31]
Todd McShay
I think they were just showing Jackson. Yeah. But this is.
- [209:35]
Steve Mensch
This build some.
- [209:36]
Todd McShay
It would go against all of it. Was Mike Tomlin with Shador or. Or. Or the rest of the house.
- [209:46]
Steve Mensch
All right, here we go.
- [209:48]
Todd McShay
Won this call. I'm sure everyone watching us right now knows. Watch our reaction. Oh, we were.
- [210:00]
Steve Mensch
We got got.
- [210:01]
Todd McShay
No, we didn't.
- [210:02]
Steve Mensch
A little bit.
- [210:03]
Todd McShay
No.
- [210:03]
Steve Mensch
You had him in your. In your mock.
- [210:04]
Todd McShay
So how'd I get got?
- [210:05]
Steve Mensch
We got got because it looked like they were to go with a quarterback here for a second.
- [210:09]
Todd McShay
But it's still great drama.
- [210:11]
Steve Mensch
It's great drama.
- [210:12]
Todd McShay
Derek Harmon circle that I didn't expect to get more right on my mock draft in the from 1616 on than I did in the first four. All right. I love this pick. I love this pick. You know who he. You know who. Derek Harmon.
- [210:26]
Steve Mensch
I've lost the headset. I don't care anymore.
- [210:28]
Todd McShay
Yeah, they can talk to me. You. You. You focus on what's going on here. You know who Derek Harmon tailored his game to or studied to try to become a better football player with.
- [210:41]
Steve Mensch
I'm going to assume Cam Hayward.
- [210:42]
Todd McShay
Cam Hayward.
- [210:42]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. That makes sense.
- [210:43]
Todd McShay
That cool.
- [210:44]
Steve Mensch
That's very.
- [210:45]
Todd McShay
Your idol. The guy that you're watching tape on, the guy that you want to become. You just go get drafted by the team where that guy is. Is now. And it also happens to be one of the coolest dudes of all time. And we'll bring him in and like, under the arm, like, let's go, buddy, because I can't play forever. Although it fricking feels like it doesn't, doesn't it?
- [211:06]
Steve Mensch
Still playing at a high level.
- [211:08]
Todd McShay
And now you got T.J. watt.
- [211:12]
Steve Mensch
I love this pick.
- [211:13]
Todd McShay
You got T.J. watt and Cam Hayward. These veterans helping you refine some of your. Move your hands and the way you play. And you. Here's the thing I love about Derek Harmon, who's six four and a half to 313 pounds. He's got some of the longest arms of any. I think it's the longest arms of any interior defensive lineman in this class. His interviews were awesome. There were some reports leading up about some durability stuff. I hadn't heard a lot of that, but obviously Pittsburgh's comfortable with it. And I'm Glad that they are because this is a damn good football player and it's one of Mench's favorites. So I'll let him carry this on in a second. But the thing that I love about him, and we heard this from Nagy early on, he completely. He decided when leaving Michigan State, going to Oregon this past year, he had to. He had to get his mind right and he had to become the best version of himself. He completely transformed his body. And you don't do that by getting on taking some pill or, you know, or. Or getting on some fad diet. He put in the work and it showed. He looked like a different player in those. In that, you know, in a different uniform, but a different body type than it was at Michigan State. And he comes out this past year and he was absolutely awesome. He had six and a half TFLs and three and a half sacks in 20, 22 and 23 combined in Michigan State. Comes out of Oregon, started all 13 games, 10 and a half sacks and. Sorry, 10 and a half tackles for loss and five sacks. So significantly more in one year at Oregon than he had two years at Michigan State. And it was all because of that hard work. I.
- [212:55]
Steve Mensch
When I. So we talk about with edges, we talk about versatility all the time, and it's really easy to say, can this guy drop? Can he kick inside to rush the passer? Can he, you know, come off the edge and win that way? When we look at interior defensive lineman, I think the game has changed a little bit with how versatile those guys are. And Derek Harmon, I think, is a great example because you look at the scheme, versatility, he could be a one gap guy, but the reason why I like him for the Steelers is he can line up on the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle and press blockers inside to the A gap and still keep his hand free to play the B gap as a run defender. So he's a really versatile run defender. And then you look at the pass rush and Todd already mentioned the length. That's great. We could talk about length all the time. We talked about it with Will Campbell and whether or not it's going to hurt him or whether these arms will help Harmon. He knows how to use the length. He maximizes the length. He gets into blockers. He makes it very hard for them to latch onto his frame, and that's why he's so successful as an interior pass rusher. He might not be the greatest athlete. He's a good athlete, but his ability to use his length and his hands, I Just love the player because of all the different things that he can do.
- [213:58]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Let's be great on defense. Yeah, let's be great. We. We just brought. Better be.
- [214:03]
Steve Mensch
If you're gonna go play Burrow two. Two times a year.
- [214:05]
Todd McShay
If you're gonna play.
- [214:06]
Steve Mensch
If you're gonna play Lamar two times a year. Year.
- [214:08]
Todd McShay
Amen.
- [214:08]
Steve Mensch
Damn good on let's.
- [214:10]
Todd McShay
Let's not be damn good. Let's be great.
- [214:12]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [214:12]
Todd McShay
The speech you gave me before we went on the air today. Let's be great. Not good. Great. Right.
- [214:17]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [214:18]
Todd McShay
And. And George Pickens might be out of town, but DK Metcalf is in. We'll see what happens with George Pickens. There's still. Hey, Steelers fans.
- [214:26]
Steve Mensch
Steelers fans.
- [214:27]
Todd McShay
Steelers fans. There's still a lot to work out in this off season. I get it. Is Mason Rudolph like are we. Were you in a war with Mason Rudolph? Maybe you are but you get DK Metcalf and that like that's. That's huge. And this offensive line ain't that bad. And you run get like I want to see. I can promise you this. Pittsburgh really like Travion Henderson. Okay. They don't pick in the second round. But I can also promise you this. There's about 30 running backs in this draft of which 2020 that are still remaining on the board, starting with Omari and Hampton who won't be yours and Travion Henderson who won't be yours and Quinshot Jud kids won't be yours unless you guys trade up. But there are a bunch of them. I would say 15 or so that could help your running back situation and quarterback. We'll see.
- [215:24]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, that's. That's.
- [215:25]
Todd McShay
Here's the deal. Shador wasn't. If Shador was forced into playing this year, how. How far is he going to take you? Unless he has a Jaden Daniels year, you know, or C.J. stroud year. And it's still not the promised land. So Aaron Rodgers. And if it's not Aaron Rodgers, I'm just saying it's going to be Aaron but. But it's not going to be a quarterback this year. And you know what? That's good. That's a good thing. There's a reason why Shoulder Sanders is still on the board and there's a reason why should your Sanders is probably going to be on the board. When we. When we join you tomorrow night a half hour before round two starts. And I hope you guys will join us again because we got a lot to unpack from. From tonight at that point, and we got a lot to figure out because who knows what quarterbacks are still going to be on the board. And I'm guessing at this point now Chador is going to be there. And as I said when we started the show, it's the Shador Watch from pick 2 to 21, pick 22 to 32. It's the Jackson Dart Watch, and we are officially on the Jackson Dart watch.
- [216:31]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [216:32]
Todd McShay
Is it the Giants trading up for him?
- [216:34]
Steve Mensch
The Saints.
- [216:35]
Todd McShay
Is it the Saints trading up for him? Is there a surprise team? Is Cleveland more interested than we thought? Probably not. They're out of the deal. I don't know. This is fascinating.
- [216:50]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [216:50]
Todd McShay
But I love the pick for Pittsburgh. It's just like this. Let's stick with our roots. If we got Aaron Rodgers coming in, there's going to be a lot of noise and a lot of stuff. This is the Steelers. This is the Black Curtain. This is the Terrible Towels. We win in the trenches. We're tougher. We, like, we worked in the mines. This is a. This is a tough city. This is a tough football team, and we're gonna always kick your ass up front. That's how they've always won. And now you got Watt doing it, you got Hayward doing it, and you got Harmon doing it. Okay.
- [217:29]
Steve Mensch
And I can't imagine Omar Khan making this move or Mike Thoma making this move to appease an Aaron Rodgers, but it might be easier for them to say to him, hey, we're not looking for you to. To, you know, be the tutor or mentor for any of these young guys. You can just come in here and Mason Rudolph will be your backup and you won't have to deal with any of that.
- [217:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah, maybe.
- [217:48]
Steve Mensch
Maybe. I just. I can't see them making the move based on that. That wouldn't. Just wouldn't happen.
- [217:52]
Todd McShay
I don't trust there. I don't trust Aaron Smart football. I wouldn't trust Aaron Rodgers with five bucks on the ground. All right? I just wouldn't. And so, like you, Omar Khan and the organization and Mike Tomlin and everyone, they're aware of where this could go and they're moving forward without Aaron Rodgers. Would they like for him to come in and play a year like the jets were hoping that he was going to have before the Achilles tear? Of course they would. Who wouldn't? And are they in a little bit of a bind? Yeah. But I also know this. Like, I know Tomlin and I. And I know this organization, and they're just going to be great everywhere else. And they're going to be better at quarterback, even if it's Mason Rudolph. I'm telling you, they'll be better at quarterback this year than they were last year. There were moments when Russell was great, but they'll be better start to finish, even if it's just Mason Rudolph and they're going to. And that personnel department I told you about them, they're damn good at their jobs. They identify talent. They know what they're doing. They're up there with the best in the league. They're going to find a couple more guys. They're going to keep building this roster on both sides of the ball so that when they do get their quarterback, and it may be in 20, 26, when they do get their quarterback for the future, it's just like it was when Roethlisberger came in, right?
- [219:16]
Steve Mensch
They understand they have to win that division. And if you win. If you win the AFC north, man, if you can win that division, if you can win that division, you're in a good spot to compete for a champion. That's how good that division is.
- [219:26]
Todd McShay
It's been loyalty, it's been consistency. It's been doing it the Steeler way. And drafting Shador here didn't feel like the Steeler Way in that it was taking another shot at a quarterback after already missing on Kenny Pickett at 21. And I'm not saying that that played into it, but what I'm saying is let's continue to build this thing the right way, because when we identify that guy, whether it's in free agency, the reclamation project like Tampa. Tampa's gotten Baker, Minnesota had last year in Sam. Or it's. It's. We're going to package a couple picks and move up and go get a guy one year in the top 10. When that moment comes, they're always going to be ready. And they can still win a lot of games as they did last year. I mean, they were 10 and 7 last year with that quarterback play.
- [220:14]
Steve Mensch
What's Ortiz got cooking here?
- [220:16]
Todd McShay
Joe Ortiz, general manager, what's he got cooking? First year, first draft, took all the time.
- [220:23]
Steve Mensch
I wonder if they were trying to.
- [220:25]
Todd McShay
Oh, our guy. Omarion Hampton. Love it, don't you? Love mentions Mensch.
- [220:33]
Steve Mensch
If no one. I have not announced no names or.
- [220:36]
Todd McShay
Guy, you know, I'm green. What do you mean, you're green? I'm new to this, but he'll just like. And I want. I'm gonna. Next time he has a reaction like that, I'm gonna. I'm gonna pause. Okay. I promise you don't give me a minute.
- [220:48]
Steve Mensch
You don't. You are right on it.
- [220:50]
Todd McShay
And I'm going to just see how long he'll let it go, let it breathe. Without actually saying the player's name.
- [220:56]
Steve Mensch
And North Carolina running back Omarion Hampton to the Chargers.
- [221:01]
Todd McShay
Thank you.
- [221:02]
Steve Mensch
At pick 22.
- [221:03]
Todd McShay
Didn't that feel better?
- [221:06]
Steve Mensch
He seems like a hardball back. Powerful. You love the speed.
- [221:11]
Todd McShay
Well, we do know they like. They like Kenneth Grant and that was that. That would have likely been their pick there is my guess. I mean everyone in the world had Kenneth Grant going there, right?
- [221:21]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [221:21]
Todd McShay
So I love Omarion Hampton and I love Travion Henderson. And it's okay to love 2. And I love Ashton Genti. It's okay to love 3. Omarion Hampton. The thing, the first thing I remember watching the saying. Because this is your guy in the beginning. And I started watching tape on him.
- [221:41]
Steve Mensch
Thank you.
- [221:41]
Todd McShay
And I was like, like, how is he so light on his feet at what? £221? Omarion Hampton. Omarion Hampton is a like power downhill knockout. He is a Michigan guy. He is a Jim Harbaugh back. No question about it. The other thing about him is he. The weakness on Omarion Hampton is if you get him. We used to like to say phone booth kiddos. There's no phone booths anymore. In a little closet, a tight, tight spaces, little, little alley, whatever you want to call it when you get him in that little confined area and mo. And a lot of the really good backs are like right. His is. He's not. He's more right. So he can stop, start. He can make that one cut and explode. He's always laughing at me, my noises.
- [222:32]
Steve Mensch
But he's not one of those jazz band over there.
- [222:35]
Todd McShay
Like, he's just. He's not like RJ Harvey, DJ getting. He's a go.
- [222:43]
Steve Mensch
All right.
- [222:43]
Todd McShay
All right. So that's the short area. The kryptonite for him is that lateral agility. But in this system, downhill momentum behind him it's 5, 11 and 3/4. Ran a 4, 4, 6 match at 221 pounds. 38 inch vertical jump. 1010 broad jump. 96 percentile in explosion scores for those jumps. You're talking about lower body. The power I can hear through the tape that doesn't have volume. The pop when he. When he hits guys. And this is the thing. He's a damn good weapon in the past game.
- [223:24]
Steve Mensch
So he's not. If you're a Chargers fan, he's not Austin Eckler. He's not, he doesn't move like that, he doesn't get open like that.
- [223:29]
Todd McShay
But he's 96 percentile in missed tackles. Force after the catch, after the catch.
- [223:35]
Steve Mensch
Watch out. The Joe mixing comp, which I had and then you magically came up with on your own later on, is a great comp. If you saw Joe Mixon at Oklahoma and you saw what he did on tape there and how talented he was, that's to me, that's a great comp. Again, not like Eckler. He's not gonna run routes like that. He's not going to get open like that. But when you get him the ball in space, watch out. Justin Herbert's going to love him.
- [223:57]
Todd McShay
And they signed Najee Harris. Najee Harris, right? Four straight thousand yard rushing. So you're like, why are we going here? Wasn't there an edge rusher we could get? Wasn't there. Wasn't there a wide receiver we could get when there a tight end we could get? Well, first of all, the answer is there was not a better player on the board at those positions than Hampton was at running back. Secondly, he fits exactly what they're doing. Third of all, Najee here is a very, very serviceable good back. He's not a move the needle guy at this point.
- [224:29]
Steve Mensch
No, no, he's not.
- [224:30]
Todd McShay
Okay. This guy is. And so now you get two great backs. And what does Jim Harbaugh love to do? Run the football and set up play action. Justin Herbert. And so this makes so much sense. A ton of sense. And yeah, yeah, they could have gone.
- [224:48]
Steve Mensch
The Toledo kid I could have seen maybe sneaking into here. Darius Alexander.
- [224:51]
Todd McShay
This is early.
- [224:52]
Steve Mensch
It's early. It's early. I understand, but there was a lot of buzz about.
- [224:55]
Todd McShay
But I want, I want to go through my tears. Right? My right.
- [224:57]
Steve Mensch
You're right.
- [224:58]
Todd McShay
Okay. The only guy left in the first two tiers in this draft is Jihad Campbell. And we knew all along he's falling tonight because of the injuries. They're worse than we thought. And in the last like 72 hours, got more information. It may not be the first round for jihad Campbell. He's a Campbell. He's a damn good football player. He might have to go in the PUP to start the year. It is what it is. And we're not here to break news or like create problems. But. But that's, that's what's happening with Campbell. But I look at my board and is it. Oh, I just. So James Pierce character, okay. Will Johnson injury, Mike Green character, self admitted disgust at the combine Two sexual assault accusations, no arrest, but those were there, and he talked about it, or else I wouldn't bring it up. I would just inform you that there were character concerns. But here we are on this board, and it's injury for Campbell, it's character for Pierce, it's injury for Will Johnson. Gray Zabel came off the board looking at it here, and then it's quarterbacks. And so when you're looking at a player that is One of the 25 best football players in this draft, and it makes all the sense in the world, you know, Martin Hampton, that, like, I just. I love that pick for them. So who do we got next match?
- [226:23]
Steve Mensch
Green Bay is going to be your guy. Mad Max.
- [226:26]
Todd McShay
Good start, by the way. We. I know we brushed over in the beginning, but Joe Ortiz has been one of. Joe Ortiz is one of the great guys in the business, and he did it the right way. Talk about earning it the long way. And he worked with Joe Douglas, he worked with Andy Wytle, he worked with. Obviously he didn't do a documentary about.
- [226:49]
Steve Mensch
All the Ravens guys that have come out.
- [226:51]
Todd McShay
Yes. Ozzie Newsom's tree in scouting is phenomenal. And so to see all of that and to see Joe finally get his shot this year is pretty awesome. Like, for guys that have known him for 20 years, man down in mobile and shitty hotel rooms, like.
- [227:10]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [227:10]
Todd McShay
I won't mention name because they may. Who knows who's going to sponsor. But like, bad ones off of the. Off the. Like the service roads and the highways and grinding it out and doing the right thing and offers and waiting to find the right place. Joe Ortiz's first pick. I didn't even put it together when I was saying how much I like Omarion Hampton, but that's a great choice for Omari, for. For Joe Ortiz. It's a great home for Omari and Hampton, and I'm excited to see what the. The Chargers do now. They've got two more picks on day two. 55 and 86 overall, but 10 picks total in. In Aussie Ravens fashion. They'll sit back. They'll get a lot of good players. Oh, who's on the board? This is Green Bay.
- [227:52]
Steve Mensch
Green Bay. Yeah. Mad Max.
- [227:53]
Todd McShay
Maybe in Green Bay. Yeah.
- [227:56]
Steve Mensch
Look at it.
- [227:57]
Todd McShay
It's quite a scene. That's cool.
- [227:58]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, that crowd is crazy.
- [228:00]
Todd McShay
That's cool.
- [228:04]
Steve Mensch
I feel like we get ready for this pick.
- [228:06]
Todd McShay
There's. There's 10 minutes tonight where I'm like, oh, I missed that. Like, the energy's awesome, but, like, the other.
- [228:12]
Steve Mensch
But my Energy is better.
- [228:14]
Todd McShay
Your energy's better.
- [228:15]
Steve Mensch
I knew it.
- [228:16]
Todd McShay
Manhattan beach is better. And this is awesome. There's no place in the world I would rather be.
- [228:23]
Steve Mensch
Label looks good.
- [228:23]
Todd McShay
And we could have been in Green Bay if we really wanted to be. And I'm thrilled that we're here in these studios with these people doing our thing. Packers, Packers. What do they need?
- [228:35]
Steve Mensch
Mensch, Packers Knee, corner, edge, interior defensive line, offensive tackle, linebacker.
- [228:41]
Todd McShay
I gave him Maxwell Hairston here. It's a good pick and I gave him to him, I think ahead of, of Will Johnson because I. Because of the durability stuff. Will Johnson still. Still on the board. You look at Green Bay, Jeff Halfley is a man to man guy. Although what is half half does more the COVID one, cover three. That's what it is. There's cover one, cover three. I could see. I don't think they're going to pass on a. I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see because, I mean, I picked Maxwell Hairston, so I, I think that. So obviously I think that that would be a good fit. I'm looking at the edge rushers and I'm like, they're intriguing, but there's a reason why they're still sitting here Right.
- [229:34]
Steve Mensch
As a rock. Who.
- [229:35]
Todd McShay
Maybe defensive tackle. We've now seen the top three defensive tackles come off the board. Right?
- [229:40]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [229:41]
Todd McShay
We saw, we saw Mason Graham, Walter Nolan, Kenneth Grant, you know, so top four. I knew I was Kenneth Grant and Derek Harmon.
- [229:52]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [229:52]
Todd McShay
So the four I just put up. Five, four, four, five. So it's not going to be interior defensive line.
- [230:00]
Steve Mensch
They're really dragging this one out. Yes.
- [230:02]
Todd McShay
Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you. All these people standing out in the freezing cold, give him something to scream about.
- [230:11]
Steve Mensch
I want to be mad Max. I think that's a great fit for them. It's a good spot.
- [230:16]
Todd McShay
I mean, let's take a second while they're doing this. Where do you think, where do you think the Giants or the Saints are going to trade up or do you think they will at this point?
- [230:24]
Steve Mensch
If I am calling Minnesota 25, I'm calling Houston.
- [230:31]
Todd McShay
Even though you don't think, well, you call them Minnesota. I mean, they're. You're calling everyone Minnesota.
- [230:36]
Steve Mensch
Like, I'm not waiting.
- [230:37]
Todd McShay
Minnesota.
- [230:38]
Steve Mensch
You could say to yourself, minnesota's not taking a quarterback. And you can say to yourself, houston's not taking a quarterback. But that's not the problem. The problem is Mickey Loomis might be calling Minnesota. Mickey Loomis might be calling Houston. So I'm calling Minnesota.
- [230:51]
Todd McShay
Oh, that's interesting.
- [230:54]
Steve Mensch
What's interesting, Todd? You didn't say a player.
- [230:56]
Todd McShay
Huh?
- [230:58]
Steve Mensch
You just said it was interesting.
- [230:59]
Todd McShay
Matthew golden, wide receiver, Texas Green Bay Packers.
- [231:02]
Steve Mensch
What goes around comes around.
- [231:03]
Todd McShay
I was just looking at this wide receiver depth chart and it's like they spent a lot of twos and Aaron Rodgers. Chew on it, chew on it, Aaron. They. They are drafting a wide receiver in the first round. I don't have the old better. I don't have the old stats on me that used to carry around for every draft. I gave up on wondering when it was they. It's been 100 years, let's call it, since Green Bay has drafted a wide receiver one. Let me talk to you about Matthew golden, one of my favorite players in this draft. Best wide receiver in this class. I'll say it again. Matthew Gold is the best wide receiver in this class. Burner, 429 speed. But it's not just that. Actually the question on him by some scouts was, is he, what's his true speed? Well, it's 429, so chew on that. Okay? A lot of chewing going on. I think subconsciously I'm starting to get hungry. But I look at, I look at golden, right? And the two things that really stood out to me on tape, how crisp his routes are. Like he, he drives DBs with that 429 speed off and then stops, right? And it's so hard when you're going that fast to drop your weight without having to gear down. Just think about in a car, whiplash. He's like. It's almost like the ability to do that is rare. His rate. He also though the savvy, which shocked me because you got to remember Matthew golden, transfer from Houston where he played two consecutive seasons and in each season had 38 catches, not combined each season. Weird, right? 38 catches the first year. 2022. 38 catches, 2023 transfers to Texas. Come on in. Give it a shot here in the big leagues, right? We get this really good quarterback named Quinn Ewers. We got this unbelievable head coach and offensive mind, Steve Sarkeesian. But we also got this like track star who's faster than everybody on this team. So he's going to be the number one receiver. Isaiah Bond, right?
- [233:09]
Steve Mensch
If you had said coming into the year there was going to be a wide receiver out of Texas, it was going to be a first round pick, you'd be like, yeah, Isaiah Bond.
- [233:14]
Todd McShay
Oh yeah. That was the talk. That's where it was headed. And Matthew golden just kept grinding as the number two, and all of a sudden they got in big games. And this number one, Isaiah Bond, like it's fool's gold. Inconsistent. Didn't show up in moments. Dropping passes that like, what are. What are we doing? And. And he's. And then injuries. Right. And all sorts of other stuff. And golden steps up. What did I say early in the show? Preparation meets opportunity. He finally got his shot with a quarterback that could throw it to him, with a coordinator who could draw it up. And he was awesome. Think about every big game, even in the losses. He did everything to keep him in. Georgia Huge showed up. Arizona State huge showed up. Every time they needed him, he showed up. And. And then you look at. You look at the fact that he can adjust and track the football. Jordan Love with his arm. Quinn Ewers doesn't. Did like everyone says.
- [234:19]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [234:19]
Todd McShay
Quinn Ewers throws the most beautiful ball in the world. I get it. But he doesn't drive the ball down the field. He sure shit doesn't throw it the way Jordan Love does. Now this guy, Matthew golden, with 429 speed and the opportunity to get downfield with a quarterback that can actually drop it in. I can't wait. I wrote my notes. Golden is the only guy in this class that moves like this. He's going to be a dynamic number two as a rookie. Could emerge as a top target. I think that highly of him. Got to get a little stronger. Okay. But he's super, super quick, crisp route runner, excellent adjustability as a pass catcher. Catcher, vertical speed. I just. I. He also has been great in the return game. I watched him and I saw some of the things. Not all. Some of the things that make Tyreek Hill special.
- [235:12]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [235:13]
Todd McShay
I thought he was somewhere between a Jalen Waddle and a Tyree Kill.
- [235:16]
Steve Mensch
Tyreek's a little thicker, a little stronger.
- [235:18]
Todd McShay
But I'm saying some of the. Yeah, like when you watch his tape, it's almost like, am I in 1.25 mode? You know, like you play a podcast to try to get through it. Go to 1.5 speed, 1.25 speed. His. He just moves differently than everybody else in this group.
- [235:31]
Steve Mensch
And think about the receiving core. Christian Watson is there. Take the top off the coverage guy, and he's good, but he's just not. He can't stay healthy, and he's a little inconsistent. And the rest of that receiving core is just better with Christian Watson on the field. But again, his inability to stay healthy has been a concern for them. Now, you Have a guy, Matthew golden who can do the same things and you're hoping that we'll be able to stay healthy and is a better underneath route rock runner. So it should make that entire. They have a bunch of pieces there.
- [235:59]
Todd McShay
Four different players between 70 guy. They have four different receivers between 70 and 76.
- [236:03]
Steve Mensch
Do you need a guy?
- [236:04]
Todd McShay
And I am the biggest.
- [236:05]
Steve Mensch
Golden is a guy.
- [236:06]
Todd McShay
I'm the biggest Jaden Reed fan in the whole world. I had a higher grade on him than, than anybody else in this business. And I stand on my business with Jaden Reed. I, I love that guy. Senior bowl. He was different and I loved him in, in the same way that I love Matthew Golden. Like there's certain players, you're like, like, that's my guy. Right? That's my guy. And golden is. But the difference is Reed was a 4 4. This guy's a 42 9, right.
- [236:32]
Steve Mensch
He's a guy. He's, he's absolutely. I think he could be. You look at that frame. But it's, the game's changed and I think he'd be a number one receiver early on.
- [236:40]
Todd McShay
And listen, Green Bay.
- [236:41]
Steve Mensch
It's the guard. Good guy.
- [236:42]
Todd McShay
Draft. Listen, Green Bay, let's see how long it takes him.
- [236:47]
Steve Mensch
Donovan Jackson, offensive guard from Ohio State goes the Minnesota Vikings. He's not, he's not going to play tackle, right?
- [236:56]
Todd McShay
Like you're telling me you couldn't have gotten a deal with four draft picks in the entire draft, Minnesota to move back off this pick, even if it was the lousiest deal in the history of NFL first round trades. You're telling me there wasn't one team? I mean, maybe, maybe there wasn't. But I don't get it. I, I, I, I, I. It's a guard, man.
- [237:18]
Steve Mensch
It's a guard.
- [237:19]
Todd McShay
It's a guard.
- [237:20]
Steve Mensch
And usually I would fight with you because I wouldn't have to, you know, this wouldn't happen. But now I'm being exposed because the reality is you don't take a guard here.
- [237:29]
Todd McShay
That's, that's coming from a guard's mouth. Yes.
- [237:32]
Steve Mensch
I love Donovan Jackson.
- [237:33]
Todd McShay
I do too. That's, that's. Oh, oh, oh.
- [237:37]
Steve Mensch
We're in the Giants.
- [237:38]
Todd McShay
Giant.
- [237:41]
Steve Mensch
They're on the board.
- [237:42]
Todd McShay
Giants are on the board.
- [237:43]
Steve Mensch
Worst kept secret. All right. Donovan Jackson. Really quickly though. It fits a need.
- [237:47]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [237:47]
Steve Mensch
They need help at guard. I understand that. I get that. Donovan Jackson had to kick out the left tackle play out of position last year for Ohio State when Josh Simmons, the talented tackle, got hurt. And man, he battled and it was impressive to watch. Easy. It was. It wasn't always clean, but he played really well for a guy who's been a guard his whole career and should kick back inside a guard in the NFL and looks like he will in Minnesota. Good player. He's gonna be a starter. We talked about this, I think early on in the process that you draft Donovan Jackson and he's your starter for 10 years. You. You don't worry about it.
- [238:22]
Todd McShay
He's an elite, elite run blocker and he's not overpowering, but he's just. He's.
- [238:27]
Steve Mensch
He's a really good passbook on the inside, too. I just don't think he's ever going to be. I don't know if he's going to ever be an all. Probably. I think I'm surprised that he wins.
- [238:33]
Todd McShay
A lot of people. A lot of people you talk to in law. It's a starter's draft. Just trying to find starters. High character, not injured. That's what he is. It's safe. It's right down the middle.
- [238:47]
Steve Mensch
Is it done?
- [238:48]
Todd McShay
Well, it's gotta be.
- [238:50]
Steve Mensch
It's gotta be done right.
- [238:51]
Todd McShay
It's gotta be.
- [238:54]
Steve Mensch
It has been a difficult year for, For Joe Shane in that Giants front office. This is kind of cool to watch, you know, we don't know how it's all going to unfold.
- [239:03]
Todd McShay
I love it.
- [239:04]
Steve Mensch
You don't know how it's all going to unfold.
- [239:05]
Todd McShay
Yes, I do, but. Jackson dart. But they're taking.
- [239:08]
Steve Mensch
Well, you.
- [239:10]
Todd McShay
Jackson dart.
- [239:11]
Steve Mensch
They're taking their cut. They're taking their swing.
- [239:14]
Todd McShay
I.
- [239:15]
Steve Mensch
They didn't reach a 3. They got the best player.
- [239:17]
Todd McShay
You know why?
- [239:18]
Steve Mensch
I'm two of the best players in the.
- [239:19]
Todd McShay
You know why? I'm. I'm pumped because I.
- [239:22]
Steve Mensch
Because of taking so much heat.
- [239:24]
Todd McShay
I don't. Who am I taking heat from?
- [239:26]
Steve Mensch
I don't know. They've taken so much heat.
- [239:28]
Todd McShay
I'm pumped because Brian Dable is one of the most underappreciated coaches in all of the National Football League.
- [239:37]
Steve Mensch
You're a fan, huh?
- [239:39]
Todd McShay
Go ahead, rip out.
- [239:41]
Bill Simmons
No, no, go ahead.
- [239:41]
Todd McShay
Go ahead, rip at me if you want. Everyone. Everyone on the. On the. No, no, no.
- [239:45]
Steve Mensch
I think you're. I think you're right. I think they're wrong.
- [239:47]
Todd McShay
But when you're in this business long enough and, and you. And you're around people that, you know are special at something, but they don't get the opportunity to show it, it sucks. What was it? Oh, come on. Come on. Todd, with the reference.
- [240:02]
Steve Mensch
Before, what do you think?
- [240:03]
Todd McShay
Was it Colangelo in the Bulls? No, in the movie the worst thing. My dad always said the worst thing in the world is wasted. Wasted potential. Right. Okay. And come on, someone in the back tell me it's Bronx Tale. It's got to be Bronx Tale. No one told me you guys didn't help Bronx Tale. I know.
- [240:29]
Steve Mensch
I always think about the door getting.
- [240:31]
Todd McShay
Like, go, go, go now, now she can't leave. Well, in the same movie it was the worst. My dad always said the worst thing in the world is wasted potential. Someone on this chat tell me make sure confirm it. What makes Jack a good question. BH what makes day ball so un underappreciated? He's one of the great offensive minds in the, in the NFL and he has not had the opportunity to show it since he lost Josh left. Josh Allen. Josh Allen when he came into the league was a special, special talent. Unbelievable arm. I remember being in Wyoming, the freezing cold in the blizzard, watching Josh Allen and he could do some things with the football and maneuverability for his size that very few people in the world could do. But you know what? He there were some throws he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and he didn't know he was learning. He was young and day ball took him and he was like 58% completion and throwing interceptions and turning the ball over and it was a cluster for a minute. But they ball put it together. And he didn't do it by like changing his technique and your stride. He did it by consistency and showing his eyes where to go with the football and putting in, learning what he was best at and allowing him to do what he was best at and then not doing the things that weren't comfortable to him and his concepts and his drilling home and to get out of plays and all the little things that the really special minds and offense in the National Football League do. Like Andy Reid. Okay. And what Andy Reid did for Patrick Mahomes, he did a lot. He did some of those things with Josh Allen and Josh Allen has gone on to. Then he gets to the Giants and there's a pick that I hated at the time. I always criticized the organization for Daniel Jones.
- [242:13]
Steve Mensch
I think it puts you in a unique perspective to comment on this though, because I think other people could say, well, what about Daniel Jones? And he was a first round pick and he got a first round quarterback. If you don't know, I'll just say it. Todd famously, famously said that Daniel Jones is a backup coming out of college.
- [242:28]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [242:28]
Steve Mensch
That it was A terrible pick. And Brian Dable wasn't even on the Giants radar at the time.
- [242:33]
Todd McShay
Nope.
- [242:33]
Steve Mensch
So, just to be clear, I think I actually do think it puts you in a unique perspective because you weren't someone who liked Daniel Jones coming out, and all of a sudden we're like, oh, now he's not good, but Brian Dables is genius.
- [242:44]
Todd McShay
You.
- [242:45]
Steve Mensch
You're. The point you're making, I think, has a little more credibility because of that.
- [242:48]
Todd McShay
So you remember back to early in the. Early in the show when I. When we started off this show, talking about why I was so excited for Brian Callahan. I. I think I sat next to him on a plane, maybe said hi to him once. I don't have a relationship with Brian Callahan. I know his dad don't really. I don't know Brian, but I'm excited for Brian as a person because I know what he's been through and how hard he's worked and how he's been around this game. And I know he's really smart. And I know this like, you work your whole career to get to an opportunity. Joe Ortiz just talked about him, general manager of the Ravens, doing it the right way, grinding it out. Get opportunity. You want to do it with your people. And Brian Dable's never been able to get. Get to do it with his people. Callahan just got to choose his guy. And I'm not saying that, like, this is the ideal, because it would be a top. If this was the ideal and it was total love, obviously, it would have been the first. It would have been the third overall pick. But he. He got people in that organization, Brian Dable did to say, get off of Shador Sanders. He's not my guy. He may be great with Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland. He may be great all these other places, but he's not like, I need someone to work with who fits what I'm looking for. And he identified that Jackson Dart is that guy. And so then Joe Shane, to his credit, and he's taken all sorts of shit, and he deserves some of it, let's be honest.
- [244:12]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [244:13]
Todd McShay
But Joe Shane was. Two things he did were smart and John Merrill, let's start there. The ownership. He was smart enough to let the football people handle the football. So it starts at the top. Then Joe Shane is smart enough to a look at this situation and say, I got one person who's uniquely qualified to make this decision, and he's choosing Jackson Dart, and he's telling me it's not Shador Sanders. So first step. Got it. And that's what I said. I said, Joe Shane just. It's a first step to what could be the biggest night in over a decade in Giants football history is tonight. And Joe Shane just passed the first test. Take a special talent, okay? Take Abdul Carter. He did it, then this. And he. And the reason he did that was he trusted the guy in Brian Daboll to make. Make sure that he told him who the quarterback was. And then he managed the draft. Joe Shane did. And Joe Shane then said, time, it's my timer. And then Joan, Joe Shane said, all right, now we got to go get our guy. I gotta go get Brian's guy. And he. And he realized that. And I've used this. And our. Our crew is the not around crew, right? Tucker and Connor and Dan, everybody else. This is the not around crew. Well, he realized that it was the same crew in New Orleans when they left, okay? And so they. They got out ahead of it and they probably tried it. Minnesota. And Minnesota was stuck on taking a guard at 24, which is unbelievable. Minnesota with four picks is stuck on taking a guard at 24. But that's not the story here. At 25, they make the deal, they move up and they go get their guy in. Jackson died. Dart. Let's talk Jackson Dart. I fell in love with Dart when I watched the 161 clip reel of Versus Pressure. You can break it down all different places. I've told you about it. And there's. I always finish the quarterbacks after I'm done with everyone's reports. I go back. The last thing I do on the quarterbacks is I watch versus pressure. Shador Sanders had like 221 snaps. Everybody else had about 140 to 180. Okay? Jackson darts was 161. I'll never forget that number because when I watched it, you could have set it to music. And it was some. It was a thing of absolute beauty. And what I said when I came out of that is I know he's not as big. He doesn't have as big an arm, but I promise you that Jackson Dart showed me so many things in that pressure reel that reminded me of what makes Josh Allen special. I said it on this show. And now all of a sudden, the guy who helped develop Josh Allen is working with Jackson Dart. And I love that. The thing with Shador and even Cam Ward, when you watch him on tape, when there's pressure and there's trouble, with Shador especially, there's drifting, right? Okay, the offense is moving back and with both of them, Warden Shador. It's a lot of moving to the right, moving to the left. And as a former offensive lineman, that's a nightmare.
- [247:21]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [247:21]
Todd McShay
Okay. You don't know where you're blocking, how long you're blocking, or where the pocket's supposed to be.
- [247:26]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [247:27]
Todd McShay
With Jackson, it's always move. The offense is always moving forward. And what do I mean by that? Pressure comes. It's a sidestep if it's interior and then climb. If pressure comes from the outside, it's.
- [247:38]
Steve Mensch
Climb with your eyes downfield.
- [247:40]
Todd McShay
With your eyes downfield. But then it's this poise combined with urgency. Poised urgency is the best. Think about Josh Allen. Pressure comes. It's poised urgency. Never. There's never a moment, never a moment with the great quarterbacks where you feel like it's panic or chaos, but it's urgency while staying poised. And that's what I saw with him. And people talk about the processing. I know the pick is in. I see all the stuff coming. I know there was a trade, all that. But the thing. The thing with Jackson Dart is people question the processing. And it's true. You don't know quite the level in terms of in the pocket because Lane Kiffin does a beautiful job, one of the best in college football, simplifying the offense and working to get predetermined reads against college defensive backs that aren't going to adjust on the fly like NFL guys will. So it's hard to tell because you run the same sail route to the left side three times in a game and it's like, well, we can't get away with that. And he knew exactly where he was going with the ball. Ball. But when the game is speeding up and things are happening and bullets are flying, I think he processes as well as anyone in this class. I think he's at a very, very high level. I think Jackson Dart's going to be a perfect fit. I can't wait to see after a year, and maybe it won't be a full year, but after a year of having Jameis Winston around, kind of the vocal leadership and watching from Russell Wilson and not having the pressure of coming into play right away, I can't wait to see what Jackson Dart is for this giants organization. 20, 26. Oh, all right. What happened, man? Catch everybody up.
- [249:21]
Steve Mensch
Tucker, can you get Todd the details of that trade if you can find it? Because I'm pretty sure the Falcons just traded up with the Rams to pick up James Pierce. This is after they got Jalen Walker or they get two of the most talented edge rushers.
- [249:35]
Todd McShay
I love it.
- [249:36]
Steve Mensch
But hold on. Okay, if I read this right, part of the deal is that they gave up their 20, 26 first round pick, the Falcons. If I got that right. That's why I'm asking you to double check on that.
- [249:48]
Todd McShay
Well, is that.
- [249:50]
Steve Mensch
I think that part of the deal was the next year's first round pick for the Falcons. There's a lot of different picks involved. That being said.
- [249:56]
Todd McShay
Well, they don't have a third round pick, so it makes sense.
- [249:58]
Steve Mensch
That being said, you want to address your edge, you go get Jalen Walker and James Pierce. James Pierce falls because there's concerns about.
- [250:08]
Todd McShay
Do you understand the speed coming off the edge? Unbelievable.
- [250:11]
Steve Mensch
Unbelievable.
- [250:12]
Todd McShay
Jalen Walker is so dynamic and explosive. I said on the field from A to B, the closing burst is better than anyone in this class. But I also, I also have told you the second best pure pass rusher in this class is James Pierce.
- [250:27]
Steve Mensch
Absolutely flies. And I said earlier, he's another guy that doesn't have to win with speed.
- [250:32]
Todd McShay
I got the mock right. I just got it like 10 picks later.
- [250:36]
Steve Mensch
He can, he can work inside too. He's got some active hands. James Pierce could be a real player if he figures it out. All the, all the little stuff and takes care of business and turns into a real pro.
- [250:46]
Todd McShay
His pass rush Win rate was 22.4. Highest pass rush with pressure of all of them ahead of Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Mike Green, Braden, Swinson, Ezraco, all of them. Mikel Williams hit the highest percentage of pass rushes with a pressure coming into the year.
- [251:09]
Steve Mensch
He was considered a guy with Abdul Carter was. Who's going to be the first edge off the board.
- [251:13]
Todd McShay
The thing with Pierce is, and I wrote this obviously rare, rare speed. We get it. He's 6, 5, 2, 45. He ran a 4, 4, 7 eighth. You ready for this? Eighth fastest time in the past 20 years. Eighth fastest time by an edge defender in the past 20 years. He ran 4, 4, 7 also at a combine best. We talked about that 160 being the number. We talked about 158 with. Oh, with. With Stewart. With Stewart. Shamar Store before you were in a 156. All right. But the thing with him is I just kept looking and writing down. He keeps offensive offensive tackles in a constant panic because like men just said, you don't know if it's speed around. If you don't know if it's back inside. He's got a little. He's got some Pop in his hands. He ties to his feet, to his hands every move. He's going so damn fast. But it's hard. Like when you're going that fast, when you're coming off the edge with 1 5, 6, 10 split and a 4, 4, 7, it's. It's hard to marry all those moves with how quick you're going.
- [252:31]
Steve Mensch
You see with receivers, guys like, that's what's great about golden is you see with receivers, they are so fast that they have a hard time slowing down their hips and just bringing it all together. Same thing about James Pierce.
- [252:40]
Todd McShay
So Atlanta just went from having the biggest edge problem of any organization in the National Football League in the past five years to having the most promising. Well, to having the most explosive. I don't know what you would want to call it. And the second best pass rushing edge combined. Like, these two guys are difference makers. And by the way, you want to talk about being multiple. You want, like in the league, defensive coordinators play the drinking game. Multiple. We need to be multiple. What kind of defensive scheme are you going to be? Multiple. We got to be multiple. Jeff Albrecht comes in, right?
- [253:26]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [253:26]
Todd McShay
And now he's got the ability to be as multiple as he wants. Because James Pierce can drop a little bit if you want, but James Pierce, you better get him rushed off the edge. But now you've got another guy on the opposite side who can play off the ball, linebacker, who can play like every down something different if you want. And when you turn him loose with James Pierce and you brought in Leonard Floyd, this went from like weirdly bad edge, rushing. I told you before, 27th in pass rush, win rate 26.
- [254:01]
Steve Mensch
But what they give out.
- [254:06]
Todd McShay
Cost a lot. I for. I got, I got. That's what happens with GMs.
- [254:12]
Steve Mensch
I get it.
- [254:13]
Todd McShay
You get. You get a whiff of it. You get a whiff of it and it's intoxicating. Then you're like, oh, my gosh, I can have both these guys off the edge. Right. Wait, what? But they gave away a ton. They did. Next year's first.
- [254:30]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [254:31]
Todd McShay
Trying to win now with Penix, baby.
- [254:33]
Steve Mensch
Do you have to win now with Pennix?
- [254:35]
Todd McShay
No. I'm joking.
- [254:36]
Steve Mensch
Okay.
- [254:37]
Todd McShay
Thank you, Houston. Meanwhile, what did Houston get? I love it. Because you know what? Every guard, every guard that's played in this entire class has been drafted already.
- [254:51]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [254:52]
Todd McShay
And that's what Houston needed. Every tackle and guard.
- [254:54]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Well, I would argue every guard, Simmons, but yes.
- [254:58]
Todd McShay
And Connerly.
- [254:59]
Steve Mensch
And Connerly. Yes.
- [255:01]
Todd McShay
And Usury. Say that one more time, Tucker. So third, 35. So 35th. I'm talking as if everyone can hear, Tucker. So they're Back to the 35th. Right.
- [255:16]
Steve Mensch
And this is.
- [255:17]
Todd McShay
The Rams.
- [255:17]
Steve Mensch
Got this.
- [255:20]
Todd McShay
Oh, no, the Texas are. I said the Texans. I said that because the Texans made the deal.
- [255:24]
Steve Mensch
The deal for the deal before that with dart. The Rams made the deal.
- [255:26]
Todd McShay
What did the. What did. What did my guy Sneed do? What did he pull up?
- [255:30]
Steve Mensch
Incredible.
- [255:32]
Todd McShay
Sneed at 26. We'll get that in a second. So second rounder, 2020. Okay, so seven. So. So the Rams move back from 26 to 46. So they had the second rounder. So the Rams now have picks, 46. They didn't have a second rounder. That's why.
- [256:00]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [256:00]
Todd McShay
They got an additional seventh this year and they get a first action. And guess what they might need next year? A quarterback.
- [256:07]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [256:07]
Todd McShay
Matthew Stafford. Brilliant. Less. That is brilliant. That's brilliant. Now they're going to be fighting with Cleveland to go up and get that quarterback next year.
- [256:22]
Steve Mensch
Whoo.
- [256:22]
Todd McShay
This has been fun, man.
- [256:24]
Steve Mensch
Your mock draft, by the way. A lot of. A lot of hits so far.
- [256:27]
Todd McShay
Weirdly though, like, not.
- [256:30]
Steve Mensch
I get another one where Malachi Starks to the Baltimore Ravens. Pick 27.
- [256:35]
Todd McShay
Nice. Yeah. I mean, for whatever matters and it doesn't matter at all.
- [256:42]
Steve Mensch
Dacosta, Eric DaCosta, the GM, is a great hitter. And you know why he's a great hitter is because when he gets the right pitch, he hits a home run. But when you pitch him away, he goes oppo. He just hits the opposite field and.
- [256:52]
Todd McShay
Smoothly, just like Ralakos. Can we throw that?
- [256:54]
Steve Mensch
Be a home run pick.
- [256:55]
Todd McShay
We need to throw that back up with Starks. Thanks, Tucker. I. I want to explain Starks to you. Malachi Starks unfortunately comes out and he had one of. Here's the hard part with. With when you're going up and Nick E. Minwari comes out and nicki Minwari is 6 3, 220 pounds. And you can leave that up for a second. 6 3, 220 pounds, 32 inch arms, ran a 4, 3 8. It was a legendary workout for the South Carolina safety. Okay, 4, 3 8. Broke the combine broad jump record by 4 freaking inches at 11 6. And then his 43 inch vertical jump was the best by any player at 200 plus pounds ever. Any position at the combine. Okay, so Eamon worries doing all that while Starks comes up. Starks runs a 45 at 6 1, 197 pounds. 45 versus 4, 3 8. Doesn't look good right only four safeties ran slower than that 4, 5 0. Then he runs a 7263 cone slowest of all the safeties. Then he runs a 445 short shuttle slowest. Then he had a 303033 inch vertical jump third worst. So it's like yeah, Eamon worry man he's going to be a top 15 top 20 pick, right? I thought it too. But then you dig in on the tape and then you dig in on the background. You dig in on some of the concerning parts with Iman worry and then you go back to the tape with Starks. Much better play speed than 40 time indicates covers ground quickly. Too high. Looks single high. Matches with slot receivers and off coverage. Matches up well with tight ends. Love his position, versatility. Can play nickel free, even cornerback in a pinch. Smooth mover. Say I wrote this safeties don't usually move like this guy does in pads. Everything's smooth, easy, fluid in his in his turns, in his transactions, right? Or transitions. Six interceptions, 22 pass breakups and three seasons in Athens. Active run defender fills it hard and then you get to dig in on his stuff and it's like oh wait, Kirby talks about this guy the same way Nick talked about Will Anderson. In the same way that talking about some of these guys who are getting drafted really high, right? Like Donovan, Jackson, Will Campbell, Tyler Booker. Durable, consistent team. First tough guy, does everything you want. Always there, understands the defense, understands the concepts. Can change week to week. And now you plug it in. What does that mean to Baltimore? Well, Baltimore. Yep, Baltimore. I got news for you.
- [259:41]
Steve Mensch
He's a great company to Kyle Hamilton. Great.
- [259:44]
Todd McShay
Phenomenal.
- [259:45]
Steve Mensch
They're going to be perfect for each other. By the way, the tape with Starks isn't clean. There was a chance he could go a lot earlier than this.
- [259:53]
Todd McShay
Baltimore allowed 58 plays of 20 plus yards last year, third most in the NFL, right. This guy single handedly will, will not fix it but will play a big role in cutting down that it'll make it better.
- [260:07]
Steve Mensch
That's for sure.
- [260:08]
Todd McShay
There's zero questions but go ahead, finish up on Starks.
- [260:11]
Steve Mensch
I think the reason the Ravens are lucky and it's one of those things you'll look back on and this has happened with other players, right? You'll look at his at Stark's 2023 film and be like this guy's going top 15. And then last year there was a couple of moments where he's caught in in bad matchups and coverage. He wasn't quite as good as you would want for top 15 player. He falls. Who's there to swoop in and take advantage of it. Eric Dasta, the general manager for the Ravens. It is a typical Ravens pick. He's a great fit for what they, they need to do. He fills a need and he's a player that probably dropped because he didn't have a great year. But when you look at the overall body of work, he probably should have gone sooner, right?
- [260:52]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [260:53]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [260:54]
Todd McShay
And that's what the Ravens have been doing since, I mean, Eric Daska, Eric Dasta, who we have tremendous respect for, for. Right.
- [261:01]
Steve Mensch
It sounds like we're Dacosta fans all the time. But. No, listen.
- [261:03]
Todd McShay
No, but I'm saying. But, but, but he. Part of his job taking over his GM and part of how he learned and rose to that spot was to carry on the torch from this organization and the founding father of, of all, all of this and all these scouts that we talk about, the Joe Douglases, the Joe Ortiz, Eric Dacostas, like all these guys, the Andy, Andy Whitels, now Kevin Whitel.
- [261:24]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [261:25]
Todd McShay
Like all these guys could come through and they go on to do bigger, bigger, greater things because they learn from some of the best and the organization how they did it. And it started with Ozzy Newsome and they've always done like, it's like, of.
- [261:37]
Steve Mensch
Course, the Ravens and play the board. Yeah, play the board.
- [261:40]
Todd McShay
Yes. And be patient now how he's going to bounce around and go. I'm shocked. I read a, read a story today how we had, at one point there were, there were 10, 10 picks in like the first round of the first 10 picks of the second round or something. There was a 10 pick stretch and he had to go out and take a jog because he was, he was in order to not be tempted to trade in a year where it wasn't a player wasn't worth it. And I think he's probably out taking a jog now because I'm shocked at how he hasn't done something. Although you can't, you can't trade back really. I mean, you can, but no one's going to want to trade up until they know what's available. So typically you can't trade back out of 32 until you know what's on the board. But, but, but I expected that it's very possible that Howie will trade out of 32. Did they just take Ty Lee Williams? Yes. I like it. I like it. This is, it's a weird draft, but I like it.
- [262:36]
Steve Mensch
Weird draft. He's a good player. I don't know about the pass rush. Tylee Williams, a defensive tackle from Ohio State, he moves really well. I just didn't see see him. First of all, he's out. Let's just start with the fact that he's outstanding against the run. I mean, just outstanding against the run. Tough to move off the ball, wins with his hands, get off blocks, makes plays and you're getting an outstanding run defender right out of the gate. I, I don't know what his ceiling is as a pass rusher though. And when you're talking about first round defensive tackles, we said this defensive tackle class was going to be good. By the way, that's five in the first round, right?
- [263:10]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [263:10]
Steve Mensch
Five defensive tackles in the first round. That's not nothing. I was concerned after watching last year some of the guys that fell out of the first round. I said this to you the other day. I thought there were more guys that deserve to go in the first round last year and they played like it when they got into the year. And I'm wondering if teams looked at that class and said we're not waiting, we're not letting you know Sean McVeigh unless need get a guy like Fisk in the second round and they're different players. I'm not saying Fisk and Tylee Williams are the same, but Tylee Williams is going to be a starting defensive tackle very early in his career.
- [263:38]
Todd McShay
Yes. I'm just crossing guys off my board because I love to keep up with it. I mean that's just. I'm going to be honest with you, I deserve to take 10 seconds.
- [263:48]
Steve Mensch
I did think Ty Williams was more of a second round pick because of that passro stuff, but it fills a need for them. He's a very good player.
- [263:54]
Todd McShay
And yeah, I'm not saying I had him here. I had him, I had him at like 50 overall, so. But my, my point is like I kind of get it because yeah, I mean this defensive tackle class is loaded, so yeah, you could get somebody else later, but he's different. Let's start with Detroit. Right?
- [264:09]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [264:10]
Todd McShay
I mean, Aaron Glenn. Now moving on, Kelvin Shepard comes in, promoted from linebacker coach. This unit was just shredded by injuries last year. Still think they need an edge. I get it. But like all these guys have come off the board and they weren't comfortable with Mike Green, period. That's what this comes down to. Okay.
- [264:30]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [264:30]
Todd McShay
So let's, let's bring in an interior guy. We got D.J. reader, we got Lee McNeil. McNeil tore his ACL in week 15. Okay.
- [264:41]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [264:42]
Todd McShay
So we don't know what we're getting with.
- [264:43]
Steve Mensch
It's a need, man. They need a defensive tackle.
- [264:45]
Todd McShay
Absolutely. So incomes Ty Leak. 4 year player, 2 year full time starter, huge freshman year in a rotation. Six and a half tackles for loss, five sacks which is not nothing in Ohio State. Right.
- [264:57]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [264:59]
Todd McShay
But his play started to tail off in 2022. Then he kind of reemerged as a difference maker the past two years. Right. Last two years, 99 tackles, 18 for loss, five and a half sacks. Nothing crazy. You're right.
- [265:12]
Steve Mensch
Over two years. Right?
- [265:13]
Todd McShay
Over two years. Yeah. Just want to make sure you talked about the run stuff. The run stopping bit. I like quite. Here's the thing with, with Ty Leak and you and I both looked at each other in mobile and like he moves. Damn dude. This guy moves different.
- [265:28]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [265:29]
Todd McShay
He's 300. Sometimes you forget when you watch him at 6:3, £334. We're not talking.
- [265:34]
Steve Mensch
He didn't run at the combine but he did do the position.
- [265:36]
Todd McShay
But he ran into the position drills and damn good. Didn't need to do anything else.
- [265:40]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [265:41]
Todd McShay
He was like talk about a like ballet feat, man.
- [265:45]
Steve Mensch
The big man ballet.
- [265:46]
Todd McShay
Big man ballet. And I wrote here, this is what I wrote in my notes to remind myself. Sometimes I write my. You know, sometimes you have like stick it notes and you remind yourself do things around the house. Take out the trash, Todd draft. I gotta start taking out the trash now. The draft's over. CNA will get a laugh at that. I can already hear that. Yeah. Right. These, these big strong, balanced and mobile grown ass men typically translate in the N. Yeah. There is a Mozzie Maisie Smith for every every reader. And I wrote in reader too. Interesting dj, DJ Reader and Duron Payne. But that. And that's kind of the hesitation that people had. And it's always typically like it's up and down. Right. But I, I actually thought this with him. Williams is actually best suited to play nose tackle one gap heavy scheme. What is this? You know it's perfect.
- [266:50]
Steve Mensch
Yes.
- [266:52]
Todd McShay
Could also be three technique can do both. So now you've got you truly not every every. Some guys are just three techniques.
- [266:59]
Steve Mensch
Right.
- [266:59]
Todd McShay
Some guys are ones, some guys are zeros. Some guys, you know he. I thought he was actually better as a nose in a one gap.
- [267:07]
Steve Mensch
I agree.
- [267:08]
Todd McShay
But he can be a three too at times. His good is really damn good. But he's got to work in a rotation, stay fresh to be effective counter moves and overall pass pass rush plan need to be crafted Right. But there's tools in this. There's tools in this bag to. To get better there. So I get it early.
- [267:34]
Steve Mensch
Not a bad pick.
- [267:36]
Todd McShay
Totally agree.
- [267:38]
Steve Mensch
Where are the commanders going?
- [267:40]
Todd McShay
Conner Lee? This is a guy that I had. I had just like. Just like Omari and Hampton became my guy. Yours first. I feel like we've. We've swapped. I. Here's what happened. You want the Josh Connerly story? Here's what happened in November or December. We can look it up in the notes. Nobody cares. Look it up in the show notes. Nobody actually cares. But I said Josh Connerly. I don't get why we're not talking about him with. With the top ots. I think he's. He's got the. He's shown improvement this year. He's as athletic as some of these top guys. Agile. You see here. Athletic left tackle, pass protector, coveted zone scheme, run blocking. Best tape vs. Abdul Carter of any offensive tackle I saw this year. Now I. I fully recognize his core strength. Needs to improve. Hand placement had really did improve this year. Work in progress. He got his ass plowed at the Senior Bowl.
- [268:43]
Steve Mensch
We might want to reword.
- [268:44]
Todd McShay
But, yes, he got.
- [268:46]
Steve Mensch
He got ran over.
- [268:47]
Todd McShay
He got teacupped.
- [268:49]
Steve Mensch
Teacup. Tabletop.
- [268:52]
Todd McShay
Tabletop. There. There's another one at the Senior bowl by Mike Green.
- [268:58]
Steve Mensch
Yes, it was Mike Green.
- [268:59]
Todd McShay
Mike Green, Yeah, Mike Green. And so that started the negativity train. But what happened was, and I don't normally do this, but you know who you are out there. There's a bunch of people who started jumping on the Connerly thing. And what happens is. And Kuiper didn't do this, but Kuyper had done this forever. And I. And I nudge him about it. And I love Kuiper. I love. I love Kim, his wife. I love Lauren, his daughter. And I couldn't be closer with him. But Kuiper's big thing was if he liked the guy, he was going to bump him up to 20, even though he knew he was 32, just to make sure everyone knew that it was his guy. Well, some other people got a hand on this Connerly thing, and he was, like, considered a fourth, fifth rounder. And I said to Mensch, like, I got him, like, early, too, but I think if he keeps playing like this, we could be talking about him in the first round. And then all of a sudden, everyone's got him at 25. And I'm looking at boards and it's like 18.
- [269:53]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [269:53]
Todd McShay
And then it's like 12, and I'm like, so Now I get to pump the brakes on my guy. And so that's what happened. There's the story. Very self serving. Very self serving.
- [270:08]
Steve Mensch
Where's he playing though? I mean you just traded for Laramie Tunsil. Are you playing him at right tackle? Are you playing Brandon Coleman, their fourth round pick in I think 20, 23, maybe last year. Are you playing Connelly inside or are you playing him at tackle? I mean it's going to be. You know what this is what it says. I will say about this.
- [270:24]
Todd McShay
I'm playing. You can play him inside.
- [270:26]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, you can. But you know what it says about the organization. We know that we have an absolute superstar quarterback and we will do whatever it takes. Yes, we'll draft whatever it takes. It may not look like we have a need here. If we think we can get better on our offensive line, we're going to go ahead and do that to make sure that our, our guy is taken care of.
- [270:42]
Todd McShay
Well, their, their best player was Sam Cosby who tore his ACL in the division.
- [270:47]
Steve Mensch
He's a guard, right?
- [270:48]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So that like. So circle RG right and put in Connerly.
- [270:53]
Steve Mensch
I could see him playing guard. Right team playing right.
- [270:56]
Todd McShay
Oh no. Every scout out there. So like I would start him at guard maybe and, and he could play right tackle. Yeah.
- [271:05]
Steve Mensch
It's a good problem to have.
- [271:06]
Todd McShay
Yes. You're depth along the offensive line with a guy who's going to continue to get better as he gets stronger. And I think Connor Lee's. Conner Lee's got a chance. Two years down, three years down the road. Tunsil's not playing forever. Tunsil's got to kind of clean some things up anyway. Who knows. But for now he's a guard right tackle that will wherever they need him. Perfect. And you're right. Protect, protect the organization. And the organization is. Is number five. Buffalo's up and Washington and Washington fans.
- [271:44]
Steve Mensch
It should have that run game too.
- [271:45]
Todd McShay
I'm sure some of you are probably maybe, maybe a little bit. What do we have for. Yeah, I had offensive tackle down the line so maybe. But we said all along. I even went on with my guys in Washington right before edge cornerback. It could be running back. I did think this could be a spot Travion Henderson but totally get it. Conner Lee is worth the pick. And what did we also say these tackles when they run out. There you go, you pull up your tackle board. You got Josh Simmons left and there's some immaturity and inconsistency and externals with him and you don't know what you're quite getting, but he's the most talented, gifted offensive tackle in this class. But you're taking a big leap. And what is tonight shown us what is tonight shown us with the best available. When you get a second, I know the picks in for Buffalo will celebrate it with you. Bill's Mafia Jihad Campbell. Injury. Will Johnson. Injury. Mike Green. Character. Maxwell Hairston. I'm surprised. Injury. Maxwell Hairston has durability.
- [272:50]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, that's right. He missed him last year.
- [272:51]
Todd McShay
Yes, the shoulder and there's a smaller corner. Yes. Smallish Josh Simmons character. Those are all the guys left on my board. And Josh Simmons at an 89. All those guys are 92 to 91 to 90 though. And there's only one, two, three, four of them and all four if you count Hairston with his injuries. Five. All five of those guys not quarterback are have injury or character. And so that's. This is a draft where we're seeing guards come off the board early and we're seeing tackles come off the board early because there's going to be a run on those. But most importantly, we're seeing durable, healthy, high character players drafted in a year. Yeah, I mean you keep saying that and I get it, but it's also the. I want, I got to get a starter. This draft isn't great at the top. It's not. So like let's get out of here with a starter. I don't give a. What's up what Steve mentioned, Todd McShay or Mel Kuiper Jr. Or anyone says. I don't care what they said or where they have them ranked because our board looks totally. And I promise you I've got some boards here like they, they look different. I've gotten sneak peeks like kind of and talk to people about the ranges and all this and like they look different from place to place. And so in that year you just, you take what you know is safe and how do I get a starter?
- [274:14]
Steve Mensch
I agree.
- [274:17]
Todd McShay
So Buffalo is up there it is Mad Max. Oh, it didn't last long.
- [274:22]
Steve Mensch
Kentucky corner, Maxwell hairston, buffalo pick 30.
- [274:26]
Todd McShay
Thank you. Man.
- [274:27]
Steve Mensch
You had a corner here. You just didn't think. You thought Max was going to go to green bay at 23?
- [274:31]
Todd McShay
I did. I did. So Mad Max is off the board.
- [274:37]
Steve Mensch
You've said this about a few players tonight. This is the guy I think more than anyone else when you say moves different, it's this guy.
- [274:46]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I see. I got done with. I got done with Maxwell Harrison's tape. Look at. All right, so Buffalo fans, here we go. You got a bunch of picks, fellas. Ladies and, ladies and fellas. 30 you get still 56, 62, but you got a bunch of picks late. I like that. So there's maneuverability added. Added T. White, but cornerback is still a priority. I didn't want anyone to get. Get confused on that. Okay. And you know, like Trudevius White is you. You're hoping but you can't count on. And there's still issue. You know this. They needed corner. I had it circled as number one. Need no question about it. You see there and they go out and get Maxwell Hairston, who I had as is the 24th overall player in this draft. When I was done watching Maxwell Hairston, I actually said to mention I don't and I don't cower from it. I think like pound for pound, this guy might be the most explosive athlete in the draft. Not named. Travis Hunter. He's as quick as he is fast and he is the fastest man in the 2025 draft. Four, two, eight. He's just as quick.
- [275:57]
Steve Mensch
Folks, in the change of direction, the being able to stop and go.
- [276:01]
Todd McShay
I can't make the. No, it's like, it's like, you know, it's even faster.
- [276:06]
Steve Mensch
I thought we were done with this tonight.
- [276:10]
Todd McShay
Just as, just as important to his cover skills are his instincts, recognition skills and the thing that I love about him, Bills fans, you're going to love this trade. Trade.
- [276:24]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, the Eagles flip flop with the.
- [276:26]
Todd McShay
Chiefs because he can't sit still. And by the way, Andy reads the same way. They're laughing.
- [276:32]
Steve Mensch
And watch him get a st. Those two are laughing.
- [276:33]
Todd McShay
They played the Super Bowl. Let's get a chuckle. Like, who are you taking? This guy? Oh, we're taking the other guy. Let's move around. Trade a seventh and I'll give you my seventh. Or something crazy like that. They love, they just, they're. It's their own jokes.
- [276:45]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, then how he gets a Pro Bowler and you're like, oh, it's not that funny.
- [276:50]
Todd McShay
What was I saying about Hairston now? Oh, when the ball's in the air, Bills fans, you're gonna love this guy. You know why? Because there's speed, then there's lightning speed and then there's lightning easy speed. Not many guys have lightning easy speed. And by that, like, watch, watch how little effort he gives when he's running. And watch how calm and freaking confident he is when the ball's in the air. Six interceptions, I think it was. He tied the Kentucky record, school record for Three pick sixes. He had the shoulder injury. You know what else? Reportedly he had like an infection from a needle while in the hospital after the surgery and that slowed things down coming back. He can't tackle very well, folks. I don't care what the tackle numbers are. And yes, the shoulder hurt him when he came back from tackling. I went back to 20, 23. Still doesn't tackle well.
- [277:39]
Steve Mensch
The numbers are good but he does a lot of running guys out of bounds. You know, it's a lot of edge stuff.
- [277:44]
Todd McShay
But he elite, elite ball skills and he can play zone and man and just, he's. I don't know. I love Maxwell Hairston. Absolutely love him. And guess what? You look at him in this, in this defense, it's zone heavy but there's a lot of multiplicity. I just, I think Harrison's going to be an absolute.
- [278:05]
Steve Mensch
He could do whatever you want him to do. Yeah, he's scheme versatile.
- [278:13]
Todd McShay
Oh, the other. I'm just reading through my notes. I can't. I won't stop on Hairston.
- [278:17]
Steve Mensch
No, keep going.
- [278:19]
Todd McShay
He doesn't back down against bigger receivers. He like, he'll take the fight to him. 39 inch vertical too, so he can climb that ladder. Yeah, enjoy him. Buffalo. You just got. I, I think a special player. And by the way, what's our job on that defense? Let's get the ball back to Josh.
- [278:37]
Steve Mensch
Right, right.
- [278:38]
Todd McShay
And, and I don't know, it's. I don't think they turned the ball.
- [278:44]
Steve Mensch
Did they take the ball away? I didn't think it's like similar to the pass horse too. If you're, if you're the, that Bills team, you're going to go up, people are going to throw on you. You better have corners to prevent them from coming back.
- [278:55]
Todd McShay
And I know Bill's fans are like, yeah, we, we took Kyrie Elam and that didn't work out well. This guy's different.
- [279:02]
Steve Mensch
He tied for the SEC lead in interceptions with five in 2023.
- [279:09]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So that's him, that's Hairston. And now we got the Eagles. What I said, I just said like 10 minutes ago. I'm shocked at how he's been able to sit still this long.
- [279:18]
Steve Mensch
He had to wait like a few picks.
- [279:20]
Todd McShay
He. Fine. I, I did read a quote from one anonymous GM that said there's. Was it 215? Is that the area code?
- [279:27]
Steve Mensch
Philly, don't answer it, man.
- [279:29]
Todd McShay
No, no, they're not allowed to.
- [279:31]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, don't.
- [279:32]
Todd McShay
No one in the. No one. This is allowed to pick up from two one five because at the. Because when that call's done you think you won the deal and it turns out he right stuck it to you somehow you just realize he got fleeced. Two picks left. Men. I want to say a couple things I'm proud of and it's not the work we put in, it's. It's not the recollection, the film work, any of that. Neither of us that great. What time is it? It's 8:34 Pacific, 11:34 Eastern. We started the show at 4 so that's 4 hours and 34 minutes. Neither of us have gone to the bathroom.
- [280:12]
Steve Mensch
I still have a voice.
- [280:14]
Todd McShay
Neither of us have run out of our voices. Oh those might have been cracked couple times and neither of us I don't believe have eaten a lick of food.
- [280:24]
Steve Mensch
No but I tell you what that's a real challenge.
- [280:27]
Todd McShay
I don't care what articles we have to write, I don't care what prep we have to do. I don't care if there's ads to read. I am getting my butt into that tiny little car that we rented and we. And I'm driving on the way back. Oh no car sick getting here with you and Marisa in front. I'm driving on the way back and we're gonna get the the kitchen is open at a certain place. We're gonna go get a burger. We've done your fancy meals, your four hour friggin dinners.
- [280:56]
Steve Mensch
You love food maybe more than I do.
- [280:59]
Todd McShay
Yes I do but we are getting a burger tonight. All right? That's what we're doing and I know exactly where in the Kitchen's open till 10. What's going on in the chat? People are getting mean now.
- [281:16]
Steve Mensch
Oh no. What happened?
- [281:17]
Todd McShay
I don't know. I do love how you guys here are always like you have your own world going on you don't need us. I appreciate that. Did Burden just go they're really milking.
- [281:41]
Steve Mensch
It at the end. I don't know dude are you tipping picks?
- [281:43]
Todd McShay
No there's someone on the tip Burden is non elite slot wide receiver in the strap I don't know if he's fighting with somebody else Seth Owens wondering is this going to be Eamon worry that's actually a good guess oh Mason Taylor. What about Mason Taylor? The absurdity of trading from 32 to 31 I hope people it's great actually appreciate the absurdity we came into this.
- [282:06]
Steve Mensch
Night wondering is this going to be kind of a ho hum draft this.
- [282:09]
Todd McShay
Draft delivered this the first I was worried until Tuesday. And then things got silent. And I could tell, right? And now I'm hearing everyone. There's so many phone calls being made, but no one's doing a damn thing.
- [282:22]
Steve Mensch
Fifth round pick.
- [282:24]
Todd McShay
That's a lot.
- [282:25]
Steve Mensch
That's a lot.
- [282:27]
Todd McShay
Why are you moving up one spot? They didn't want the player you wanted. That's weird. I want to get to the bottom of that.
- [282:36]
Steve Mensch
They must really like this guy, but I get it.
- [282:40]
Todd McShay
Well, I guess you're taught. I guess maybe you know, that they're gonna take him and you try to talk him out of it because they had two on the board. I don't know. That's weird.
- [282:50]
Steve Mensch
Who we got?
- [282:54]
Todd McShay
Oh, okay, Good. Jihad Campbell. Nice linebacker. This guy's such a damn good football player. Jihad Campbell is like. He's got the stuff to be elite. I. I learned. We all know about the injury. I learned he might wind up have to be at the PUP to start the season for the Eagles. This makes all the sense in the world. Sit back. I mean, sit back to 32 and then give away a fifth to go to 31. Were the Chiefs gonna take. I don't understand that. No, I'm not gonna get caught up in it.
- [283:27]
Steve Mensch
You're a little caught up in it.
- [283:29]
Todd McShay
But the Chiefs are. You know what? You know what? You know what? Someone may have been trying to trade in behind, right? But, like, I can't imagine that, Andy. I don't know. It doesn't matter. All right. Jihad Campbell.
- [283:42]
Steve Mensch
Go.
- [283:43]
Todd McShay
Plate edge and wide receiver at IMG Academy. Three year player, one and a half year starter at Alabama. Final two seasons. 183 tackles, 15 and a half tackles for loss, five sacks, three PBUs, two force fumbles. And I saw at least one pick on tape. He ran at six. Just. Just a tweak south of six, three, 235 pounds. He's got long arms. 32 and a half inch arms. Okay. He ran a four, five, two, I thought, versus the run kind of in. His instincts are still developing. I thought he was inconsistent. Okay. I think he. Right now it's C ball, hit ball. Okay. But what I do know is when he. When he sees the ball and goes to hit the ball, he gets there at a flash and he's long. And now in today's NFL, long 32 1/2 inch arms or 30. Yeah, 32 1/2 inch arm length taller. Six three. I can tell you as a former quarterback, it's a pain in the ass to throw around those guys in the middle of the field. Yep, it is.
- [284:50]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [284:50]
Todd McShay
Dropping in the zone with speed and length. It's a pain in the ass. That's why the 90s was awesome. He had like, the linebackers with the big things in the neck. Neck things. What are they called?
- [285:05]
Steve Mensch
Neck rolls.
- [285:06]
Todd McShay
Neck rolls. Thank you. But here's what you love. Closes in a flash. Length. He also. I don't want to oversell this aspect because I feel like in the media it got oversold. Yes, he was a former defensive end. Yes. He can rush at times. This is not a Micah Parsons deal. This is not a Jalen Walker deal. Okay. This is. This is a guy who occasionally you can. It's more like. Was it Highsmith in New England? Like, occasionally is one of those guys. I think High Tower. Hightower. Hightower, yes. Dante Hightower. So there's versatility to his game, and I think he's just going to continue to get better and better. The problem is a torn labrum. Underwent surgery after. After the combine. And so there's now concern might be on the PUP to start the season. What do the Eagles care? Like, honestly, you got the cold care.
- [285:57]
Steve Mensch
Because the Kobe Dean.
- [285:58]
Todd McShay
Yeah, no, I understand. I understand. But. But, like, what do they really care? You get Zach Bond.
- [286:05]
Steve Mensch
You invested a lot of money in Zach Bond. You have Nicobi Dean, who. Who's going to miss.
- [286:09]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And so this guy plugs in as a starter when he's available and hopefully. Hopefully one of those two guys. But what if we lose? What are we going to lose? Four games because we're missing one off the ball linebacker in the first month of the season, is my point.
- [286:21]
Steve Mensch
I get you. You're investing a lot in that position and you have two guys now who have injury concerns.
- [286:25]
Todd McShay
Okay. Good luck.
- [286:28]
Steve Mensch
I like. I love the player and far be it from.
- [286:31]
Todd McShay
I just want people to understand. I know. I know of almost every team I talked to without the injury, it was top 12, 13.
- [286:41]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [286:42]
Todd McShay
I had him as an 11 on my board knowing the injury, but I still. That's the. He'll be back. So this is. This is a. How he just got one of the. Let's call it at least one of the 12 best players in this entire draft. And if he. Excuse me. Gets healthy and they get him back on track midway through the season and continues to develop, he may be their star off the ball linebacker.
- [287:08]
Steve Mensch
Absolutely. Could be.
- [287:09]
Todd McShay
So we'll see.
- [287:11]
Steve Mensch
And when you win a Super bowl, you don't have. Maybe don't have as many holes.
- [287:14]
Todd McShay
Jinx my voice. Why don't you tell us Something about yourself, Steve.
- [287:23]
Steve Mensch
I just had flashbacks. Like every orientation I've ever had in my life. Like, no, not doing.
- [287:28]
Todd McShay
Yeah. What is your middle name? Mensch.
- [287:30]
Steve Mensch
No, when I went to Richmond and they were like, take as many M M's as you want. And they're like, how many Ms. Do you have? Like 12.
- [287:35]
Todd McShay
Tucker one. Tucker wants to know.
- [287:37]
Steve Mensch
You say 12 things.
- [287:38]
Todd McShay
Tucker wants to know your middle name. Mine's Marshall.
- [287:41]
Steve Mensch
That's good.
- [287:42]
Todd McShay
Marshall Brown. My grandfather.
- [287:43]
Steve Mensch
That's good. Mine's Richard. Richard.
- [287:48]
Todd McShay
Richard.
- [287:49]
Steve Mensch
After my uncle Rick. Rick is way better.
- [287:51]
Todd McShay
We'll call you. We'll call it Rick.
- [287:53]
Steve Mensch
Rick. Yeah, the Rick.
- [287:54]
Todd McShay
Steve. Steve, Rick. Okay, we come up over get to see some of the comments now. Right?
- [288:00]
Steve Mensch
Really, really losing it at the end. Is this Simmons? I would love to see them get Simmons here.
- [288:11]
Todd McShay
We are back tomorrow. We are back at. So the draft is at 7 7pm Eastern tomorrow. So we're back at 6:30 Eastern, 3:30 Pacific. Okay. This has been awesome. I mean, we still have like 9,000 people in this chat. I can't begin to explain to you how appreciative I had him. Simmons there too. How appreciative Steve and I are for all of this support. And I know everyone here behind the window is great, grateful for all the support as well. And we'll be back to give you more tomorrow and right after we talk to you about Josh Simmons. But we will be back and, and like rocking it again tomorrow and I'm excited for it. And remember, go get, go, go get the McShay report. Just Google it and get it. $1. You got till tomorrow night and you can have it till May 3rd, 31st. So I think it's a small price to pay for like all 32 team breakdowns. We're gonna have something like that after I eat a burger. I'm gonna write with with Dan tonight and it's going to come out tomorrow. I'm gonna give you the top 10 predictions. Where's Shador going tomorrow? Give us this is your Josh Simmons. Your guy. Go. Kansas City Chiefs desperately need offensive line torn patellar tenant.
- [289:24]
Steve Mensch
So he missed most of last year. So there's the, there's the durability compared concerns. And also as the process went on, there were some concerns about maturity and it's whether or not he is where he needs to be as a pro. So there's all of that. I get it. He is the best offensive tackle in this class. I'm sorry. He just is. He has movement skills like no other offensive tackle in this class he can, the way he sets, the way he gets to the second level again, the sky is the limit. If, if he stays healthy and you get him to work, then you. The Kansas City Chiefs just got a starting left tackle, a franchise left tackle, two big ifs.
- [290:00]
Todd McShay
I understand, but couldn't agree with more.
- [290:03]
Steve Mensch
But I understand they get the best offensive tackle in this draft at pick 32. It's stealing. This is a guy I think should have gone a lot higher. Even if you have all of those concerns, I'm buying, like look at the guards that win this, this round. I'm buying a lottery ticket on a guy that could be an, I really believe can be an all pro offensive tackle. Give me that guy to get him a pick 32, fill a need. I mean if I'm Patrick Mahomes, I'm ecstatic with this pick.
- [290:36]
Todd McShay
I watched his tape after watching Banks from Texas and after watching Connerly, who I hold in high esteem, his athletic traits and after watching Member where I was like, Holy smokes, this guy's 332 and moves like that. And after watching Campbell and both Memboo and Campbell ran sub five second 40 yard dashes, which translates weirdly to success in the NFL for offensive tackles. And I put on his tape and I knew all the stories. I knew the immaturity, I know the inconsistency. I know what you're getting and I know that there's. I know just like a lot of these other players that have, that have some of these character stuff we talk about, it's about pushing out people in lives and focusing on you and your opportunity, this God given talent that you have and grinding to be the best you can be. And I watched his tape and I was like, whoa, right? Just like Matthew golden moves differently than every other receiver in this class. And Maxwell Hairston moves differently than every other corner not named Hunter in this class. He's different. So Andy Reid, the former offensive lineman in the staff, got an opportunity and they've never shied away from dealing with some of the stuff that Simmons is coming in with the flags. Get an opportunity to make him into a special player. Not like a good player, like a special player. This is a great project for Andy Reid and that staff and if they, if they hit on this, they're going to hit big. Big like Pro bowl left tackle big.
- [292:22]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, I'm buying that.
- [292:23]
Todd McShay
But it's, but, but it's also a big project. So.
- [292:26]
Steve Mensch
And there are concerns like he got hurt so early in the season that he didn't really get into the meat of the schedule. And when they played Marshall, he only saw Mike Green for a couple snaps. So there are some concerns about the level of. Of competition. Listen, just. Just watch him move on tape. Just the sets. The way he sets, the way he bends, the way he changes directions, the way he gets out in space. All of it different.
- [292:49]
Todd McShay
He almost moves as. Moves as fast as. I pack up this studio after five hours of talking straight and giving you everything I have in this body, mind and soul and voice and everything else. And we did have two. We did it. This is awesome. This is fun. I'm going to eat. I hope you guys had an awesome night tonight. We're right back. Tomorrow, 3:30 Pacific, 6:30 Eastern. We're gonna do a pre show leading up. I'm gonna go until Chuck gets drafted or else someone turns off the lights on me. Tyler Shucker bust tomorrow. And then. And then we'll have a review show overnight when you're done with the draft. Check it out. We're going to do a review show after day two, and then we'll be back on Saturday. I can't wait. We're still called. I didn't pick up his call. Hold on, hold on. I want to show you guys what I have in here.
- [293:40]
Steve Mensch
Oh, man, you do?
- [293:41]
Todd McShay
I. I'm working at the pick. No, no. Everyone knows what I'm trying to do, and he knows what I'm trying to do. But I want people to realize that I am dead serious. You see this ISO solo Shut. That's stopwatch. We're going to get resilo and run to 40. I don't care. He'll want to do the bench press. But we'll be there on Saturday, 3 to 5 Eastern Time. Reviewing the draft. Having a blast with him. Telling stories, being fun. It's. I promise you it's going to be a hell of a lot more hang. Hell of a lot better hang than like, talking about Kennesaw State. Gar. Someone. Someone's like, cut it out with the Kennesaw State stuff. Like the golden something. Send me a note on what Kennesaw State is again. I know I'll change the school that I'm playing around with. We appreciate you. This has been awesome. First time ever. We're proud of it. Hope you guys had fun with it. We'll see you tomorrow. Later. Be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit RG D help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hope NY in New York must be 21+ and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 + and present in DC.