LIVE NFL Draft Full Recap with Ryen Russillo! | The McShay Show

Summary

The McShay Show: LIVE NFL Draft Full Recap with Ryan Russillo | April 26, 2025

Hosted by Todd McShay of The Ringer, this episode features a deep dive into the third day of the NFL Draft, with analyst Ryan Russillo joining Todd to break down key picks, team strategies, and standout player evaluations.

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1. Introduction

• [00:00] Todd McShay opens the show with a humorous anecdote about traveling with Ryan Russillo, setting a relaxed and engaging tone for the episode.

2. Cleveland Browns' Surprising Fifth-Round Quarterback Pick

• [02:00] Todd McShay brings attention to the Cleveland Browns drafting Shador Sanders at 144 overall in the fifth round—a move that has left analysts puzzled.
• [02:29] Ryan Russillo shares his initial thoughts, expressing that without the Browns’ earlier pick of Dylan Gabriel, Sanders might have been more acceptable. He states, “Without the Gabriel pick, this might actually work out” ([02:29]).
• [03:37] Todd McShay and Ryan Russillo discuss how nearly every evaluator had passed on Shador Sanders multiple times, even mentioning other quarterbacks like Will Howard and Quinn Ewers who were considered ahead of him.
• [04:13] Mensch (another analyst) adds that taking Gabriel before Sanders was baffling, questioning the strategic reasoning behind selecting Sanders over more evaluated quarterbacks.

3. Evaluating Shador Sanders

• [07:02] Todd McShay highlights the Browns' decision-making process, noting that they might lack sufficient information or have underestimated Sanders’ abilities.
• [08:07] Todd McShay praises Brian Daboll, the Browns’ coach, as one of the top offensive minds in the NFL, suggesting that Daboll’s trust in Sanders could lead to Sanders outperforming Gabriel.
• [09:03] Detailed analysis of Sanders’ performance under pressure, his ability to move the offense forward, and his decision-making in high-stakes moments are discussed. Todd remarks, “He’s moving the offense forward. If there's trouble, he's advancing it” ([09:03]).

4. Broader Draft Evaluations and Team Strategies

• [10:45] Todd McShay and Ryan Russillo delve into the complexities of quarterback evaluations, emphasizing the challenges inherent in predicting a quarterback's success based on college performance and pro-day metrics.
• [11:57] The conversation shifts to other teams and their draft strategies, including the New Orleans Saints and their interest in Sanders, as well as the Rams' apparent move to secure him before falling teams could.
• [16:13] Ryan Russillo criticizes ESPN’s handling of certain interviews, particularly highlighting how glimpses into team front offices reveal conflicting narratives about player evaluations.

5. The Role of Media and Public Perception

• [25:00] Ryan Russillo discusses the influence of media narratives on draft perceptions, using Shador Sanders as a case study for how public and media opinions can shape a player’s draft stock.
• [27:33] Todd McShay offers a life lesson derived from the draft process: understanding one’s role within a team and the importance of accepting feedback and adjusting accordingly.

6. Notable Picks and Player Comparisons

• [37:22] Analysis of Detroit's draft picks, comparing new players like Mason Taylor Ferguson to proven NFL talents, highlighting the creativity and potential mismatches teams are aiming to exploit.
• [46:07] Ryan Russillo and Todd McShay examine the Kansas City Chiefs' defensive selections, praising their strategic focus on defense as a foundation for supporting their quarterback, Patrick Mahomes.
• [60:10] Discussion about Tyler Schuck, a quarterback drafted by the Saints, is introduced. Todd expresses belief that Schuck “may wind up being the best quarterback from this draft” ([60:10]).

7. The Importance of Team Needs and Player Roles

• [72:58] Ryan Russillo emphasizes the importance of drafting players who fit specific team needs, using examples like the Detroit offense’s reliance on speed and the Kansas City Chiefs’ focus on defensive strength.
• [78:18] The conversation touches on how certain players, like Will Campbell, might need to transition positions (e.g., from tackle to guard) to better fit team strategies and improve overall performance.

8. Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

• [88:15] Ryan Russillo and Todd McShay share personal anecdotes and lighter moments, maintaining the show’s engaging and personable atmosphere.
• [91:00] The hosts reflect on the excitement and unpredictability of the draft, concluding that despite some surprising decisions, the draft has provided valuable insights and entertainment.

Notable Quotes

• Ryan Russillo: “Without the Gabriel pick, this might actually work out” ([02:29]).
• Todd McShay: “He’s moving the offense forward. If there's trouble, he's advancing it” ([09:03]).
• Ryan Russillo: “The NFL locker room does not want free thinkers” ([26:07]).
• Todd McShay: “Tyler Shuck could... be the best quarterback from this draft” ([60:10]).

Conclusions and Insights

• Strategic Drafting: Teams like the Browns and Chiefs are making strategic choices that reflect their long-term visions, focusing on foundational positions like quarterback and defense.
• Evaluation Challenges: Quarterback evaluations remain the most challenging aspect of the draft, with factors like team fit, coaching philosophy, and media narratives heavily influencing decisions.
• Media Influence: Public perception and media coverage can significantly impact a player's draft stock, sometimes overshadowing their on-field performance and potential.
• Role Clarity: Successful draftees often have a clear understanding of their role within the team, whether as starters or supportive cast members, which can influence their development and contribution.

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This episode of The McShay Show offers a comprehensive analysis of the NFL Draft's third day, blending expert evaluations with engaging discussions. Whether you're a die-hard football fan or a casual observer, Todd McShay and Ryan Russillo provide valuable insights into the complexities and surprises of the draft process.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

Sa1 Sometimes when you call a friend and you say, I need your help, you can't ask me what it is, you can never ask me later about it. And we're probably gonna hurt some people. All the answer that you're looking for is whose car are we gonna take? And that's exactly what I did with Ryan Rosillo, my good friend here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I had no idea when I agreed to this that it was the NBA.

[Todd McShay]

Playoffs and he's been complaining ever since, but he said yes. And here we are in Ryan's wonderful home, Manhattan Beach, Day three of the draft. I've spent it sitting on sets, sweating. I've spent it sitting on sets, freezing, rain soaked notes. And now I get to sit here, ocean in the backdrop, amongst good friends. Ryan Rosillo's Mentz. Would you get over here?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Good. I was worried.

[Todd McShay]

Mench is a busy man. As we talked about yesterday. He's got the ESPN draft tracker. He's doing two jobs at once and we love him for it. He's busy, busy guy.

[Mensch]

Pop it up in a second.

[Todd McShay]

And you know what? He may be jumping in and out. We'll have him in the background. We can ease drop on him the whole time. But. But here we are, day three of the draft and there's a lot to get to, a lot to get to and. But you can't start this coverage with Shador Sanders being drafted just a handful of picks ago. We're in the fifth round still. He was drafted at 144 overall in the fifth round by the Cleveland Browns as the second quarterback they drafted.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Your initial thoughts without the Dylan Gabriel pick. It actually makes a lot of sense because if you look at their depth chart, you're like, okay, Watson's probably on IR for another year. And I think there's an insurance money conversation about keeping around in the IR as opposed to taking on more dead money, which is a different thing. You've got Flacco, you've got Pickett. So if that were the case, through all of this stuff that I know, we'll get to it. It felt like without the Gabriel pick, like, okay, he might, this might actually work out, as disappointing as these two days have been. But the Gabriel pick at, at the third round, that concerns me now because it's like, well, what's, what's the point? What am I doing? Yeah, I mean, obviously it's a value play. Like, okay, our grade on him despite all this is way better than him being in the fifth round. So get back in there. I mean, Clearly, Cleveland passed him, what, six times, not even including some of the trades. So I. I would like it way more if they didn't pick Gabriel ahead of him, who I would still think. I would have thought would be behind Sanders in the evaluations.

[Mensch]

Wasn't mine. I mean, he definitely wasn't mine. I mean, I thought Will Howard was ahead of him. I thought Quinn Ewers was ahead of. I'm talking about Gabriel now, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Yeah. A lot of guys are ahead of him. So the fact that. I mean, that. That pick really kind of stunned me more than anything else. That's kind of quietly hidden in all this or overlooked on this.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Mensch]

How do we take him so early? Like, why is it him like other. Other guys that we've gotten?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Mensch]

I said it to you last night, like, Will Howard. Like, their scheme is like, a guy who can be accurate and smart. Well, Will Howard just killed it in the playoffs with all of that stuff about managing an offense.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Mensch]

Why not Will Howard? So then you take Gabriel, and now you're going to have these two guys compete. And I like. I like throwing a lot of darts. Like, if you want to fill a need or you want to get a quarterback, like, take a bunch of quarterbacks if you want.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

But the way they've done it, who they've done it with, like, you can't tell me that with that pick, where they got Gabriel, they could have gotten a better player or a better quarterback. So that, to me, was a head scratcher. It's all going to be about Shador.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I get it.

[Mensch]

But I don't get the pick for Gabriel.

[Todd McShay]

I should mention. We're here for two hours. We appreciate you joining us. Right. It's day three of the draft. This is for the Die Hards, and we know if you're watching right now, you're a Die Hard with us.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm tweeting this out to all my followers right now.

[Todd McShay]

Get the crew. Good. Hey, Matches Mafia. They're aware we're here, right? Yeah. So we're going to be here for two hours. Hopefully you want to hang with us and have some fun. The fascinating part of all of this, and I don't. I'm not going to go on a long rant if you're interested in my take on how it got to this point. And I went into a lot of it yesterday and on our review show when I was waiting for Mitch to come into the room when he was finishing up his duties in the very beginning of the review show yesterday, which you can find on YouTube. I went on a probably 30 minute rant to summarize it. It was. It's the. About. It's. It's all about a pool. Right? And it's like any person who goes for a job interview and there's 32 companies that you. That you'd like to go work for. Right. Automatically about 12 to 15 of those companies are out because they have someone who's awesome at that job already that they're paying a lot of money. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert Jalen. Hurts like the list goes on and on. Okay. The pool starts to shrink then too, when you look at the skill set. And he's not the biggest, not the strongest arm, not the most mobile. And so there are some organizations. I've talked to you about it for two months now. Brian Daboll wants someone more like Josh Allen. Those tricks Jackson Dart fit perfectly. Talk about New Orleans.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Kellen Moore, the dart one, though, I think is like, anytime I hear this guy's a culture setter, like, you don't know that. That's total. Like, you have. No. I mean, maybe Jackson Dart's awesome. Even go back to sc. The thing I love the most about Jackson Dart is that he did not care about his body like you would have thought. Coaches would have had to pull him aside at some point and be like, we love that this is in you. We love that you have the Thor face paint. But like, get out of bounds, man. Slide a little bit more. So maybe all those things are true, but I just.

[Todd McShay]

I guess I'm going to. What's one of the biggest complaints about Josh Allen?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, that he can't protect himself. Right? Right. So maybe that's why.

[Todd McShay]

Why do his teammates love him? But a cop, A cop, does that change the culture?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. No, you're. So you're actually using my breakdown of him against me. I just am at an age now where I don't hear anything that ever feels unique, that it's all propaganda and that like every single interview is just, you know, hey, man, this guy's a real tone.

[Mensch]

I'm so grumpy about it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But like, dude, there's. How many guys. How many guys are in camp before you even get to the 53. Like, imagine a dude who's been in and out of league six years is wondering his paycheck is coming from. He's like, man, I was on the fence about this, but fucking Jackson Dark gets it.

[Mensch]

He's a tone setter.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's just such an over, like it may be something down the road, but I just think first day in through the doors, maybe I'm being way too critical. There's just too many quotes. The lead up to the draft and throughout the draft and all stuff. I've read too much, Todd. I've read too much.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't have a six minutes into the show or whatever it is. Banging on Jackson Dark.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, the problem is I've been watching the Jacksonville GM and I want to just absolutely, like, I. I want to interview people about his interview.

[Mensch]

It's. It's. It's wild, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Did you see it? You should watch it if you haven't seen it now. It's crazy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You like Newsroom, right? From Sorkin. You'll love this.

[Todd McShay]

So good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You'll love this guy then.

[Todd McShay]

And then you hate him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's not even.

[Mensch]

You're not banging on Jackson Dart, though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's the coverage, really.

[Mensch]

It's the reaction. It's the way he's being covered. Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just think it's asking a lot because, I mean, if Jackson Dart were all of those things, how does he not go in the top 10?

[Mensch]

Right. Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because I love him so much. You didn't take him at nine, I think, physically, or. There's a ton of stuff about him that we really like. I mean, give me. Give me your, like, Cliff Notes of why a Jackson Dart, if he's all of these things, why he's not going in the top 10, why he doesn't.

[Todd McShay]

Go in the top 10 is there's concern he's coming from Lane Kiffin's offense.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And in that offense, there's. There's not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is this like a Baylor offense thing?

[Todd McShay]

No, it's not a Baylor offense thing. Thing. But there's. There's no. There's. There's elements of that kind of discussion, and there's a lot of predetermined. Lane Kiffin's an offensive. I don't. I hate the word genius, but he's. He.

[Mensch]

It's fun to watch.

[Todd McShay]

He's a step ahead in most people. Offensive.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's too many people like you that know it way better than I do. That watch the way he dials up a game and goes, this guy's at another level.

[Todd McShay]

So he's at another level.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I never hear anything.

[Todd McShay]

And so what he does is he exploits college defenses, defenses, and specifically college defensive backs and gonna throw some concepts. But he. Instead of having this big catalog of concepts, he's got kind of a tiny, tiny catalog. Right. But what he does with that is motions, formations, shift. Like, all these different things to dial up kind of the same play and the same concepts. Like the sale. The sale concept you see against Florida this year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Three times. They ran it. Okay. Right to the left side.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's just a brutal game to use, and it was.

[Todd McShay]

But people think it is a brutal game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

I thought it was his best game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are you serious?

[Mensch]

It's not the best ending.

[Todd McShay]

The three interceptions, two of which were counted. Three interceptions at the end, were his worst plays of his career.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I would say the Kentucky game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The problem is, like, if I look at the end of the Kentucky game and then I compound that with the Florida game, and I don't even know. Like, sometimes, you know, guys end the game by being too risky and you're like, well, at least I have that instead of a guy throwing short sticks. So, you know, when I look at. When I look at Jackson, like, those were really disappointing endings, and it felt like they very much were on him as opposed to, like, what else is he supposed to do is take some sort of chance? I don't know that that means that's exactly who he's going to be the rest of the time. But you seem to think the Florida tape is, like, way better than maybe just a guy like me watching it.

[Mensch]

He makes some plays on that tape, like.

[Todd McShay]

And see, the thing with him as a runner is he doesn't run when he doesn't need to run. He runs in. He runs in situations and moments. Situations where there's no other option.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And look, I'd rather have tough than scared, which he certainly checks that box, too. But.

[Todd McShay]

But what I love. So I. There's a lot to like about. Okay. He just ironically, like, there's more energy on his ball and, like, deep outs and those sorts of. He doesn't drive it vertically. Great. But I watched 161 plays in his clip reel versus pressure. Okay? The climbing, the instincts of feeling the pressure with, like, Cam Ward and Shador Sanders, there was a lot of retreating, there was a lot of drifting. There was a lot of scrambling out right, left with him. He's moving the offense forward. If there's trouble, he's advancing it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. And here's the part everyone said, well, I don't know how he processes Lane Kiffin's offense. A lot of predetermined. A lot of, like, small, small catalog of concepts. But when the game's moving and the bullets are flying, I think he might process his fast as anyone in this class. And Brian Dabel I. I don't know your thoughts on Brian Dabel. I know, you know, fans and people are like, well, he hasn't won. And Daniel Jones. We didn't pick Daniel Jones, right? And the best that Daniel Jones ever looked was the one season he actually was healthy, and he got the most out of him. I think Brian's, like, in a short stack of coaches in terms of, like, offensive minds. He's one of, like, the Lane Kiffins we talk about in college. He's that at the NFL level. And so now he gets his guy. And Joe Shane, I give him credit, he managed the draft, got his guy, the guy. The only pick he could have made at three is Abdul Carter. But then he sat back and said, I've got one uniquely qualified individual in this organization to make a decision on quarterback. And it's Brian. And Brian's telling me, we need Jackson Dart. And by the way, I don't know if we'll ever know for sure. I'm pretty sure the Rams were going to take him at 26.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No kidding. Really?

[Todd McShay]

And that's why they want. And I think they were. They were very much concerned. And it turned out it wasn't a race against Mickey Loomis in the New Orleans Saints from 40 on up. And like this. This game of chicken, it was. We're Getting intel at 26. Les Snead, McVeigh. They could bring him in. They like him a lot. We better get up ahead of him. And that's why they moved up to 25 with Houston to make that pick.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Time out. Gladstone's talking about the pyramids right now.

[Todd McShay]

All right, so give me. You guys, I'm gonna sit back. I want to listen. Give me. Give me the Cliff Notes. I gave you the Cliff Notes on dart. I want the Cliff Notes. What's going on really quickly. I heard him, and it's part of it. The way he kind of. The look and the vibe he gives off.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's massive ageism.

[Todd McShay]

It's the tone.

[Mensch]

It's the tone in the. And, like, not for. You know, it's good to be confident. I guess the confidence is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm all for the confidence. Again, I'd rather talk about Jackson Dart.

[Mensch]

I watched about 20 seconds.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'd rather have confident than not confident, especially when you're talking about. People have to take this much criticism and have these jobs. But I just feel like Gladstone went in there and said a million, like, tech bro desk things. And they were like, this guy's a genius. He's the Rams. So The Rams would know far better than I would. You would think that ownership there would call Rams ownership. Like, tell us about this guy. But he's a thing right now. He's a thing right now because he used ecosystem. He said, in this space. He said tangibly rich people. I mean, it was just. I mean. And then he did some speech when he had Travis Hunter next to him. He basically heard that was actually pretty moving, except it was also felt like really bullshitty where he was like, he provides belief. So it's just a lot of stuff where I'm like.

[Mensch]

He started off with, like, when I think about this game and I'm like, dude, you're so young. Like, you're like, how is your perspective like this. Calm down.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That just made me think he killed the interview. Like, I had a roommate like this once. Everybody loved him immediately. And I was like, I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

But I think that is so Massachusetts. I thought we were good. We're always the last to come around on somebody. Right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. And then it's even worse when somebody is, like, actually deserving of praise.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, I can't even dump on this guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because he deserves it. So maybe that's the case here. I don't want to sound like I already did this on the pod with Brear on Friday because I was like, I feel like a dick making fun of some of these quotes. But, like, he hit us with everything. I mean, he messed with everything. And it just. And then he. It came back the next day. So I imagine they're probably having a.

[Mensch]

Lot of fun now. Chad GPT.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's like a hotter.

[Todd McShay]

Well, that's. That's why I love. That's why I. It's good to have you around. You kind of keep. Give me that angle. I'm all like. I'm way more like this. Like, Marissa does that for me. Like, there's like, I've got blind spots to some of this stuff. I'm like, yeah, Bella checks dating a young girl. Like, who. I'm not shocked, but, like, you know, it's. It's always interesting.

[Ryan Rosillo]

She's a.

[Todd McShay]

But. But the thing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think so. I mean, she's on the field.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Feels like HR thing.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, yeah. She's on the field. And you better. She better be included in emails. It's interesting to me, too. Yeah. You got the best player in the draft. Arguably one of the top two players. Doesn't. Here's a lot to give away.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. But isn't. Isn't there a part of this because, like, what were we all saying about Travis? You're like, I hope he goes somewhere where they let him be him. If there's anything that we learned, at least as much as we're having fun with some of the quotes, because I am. I'm never gonna stop. It's great.

[Mensch]

It's entertaining.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It sounds like you are who you are. But he's going to a place that fully wants to embrace the Travis Hunter experience. So, like, we may get to see something we've been told for decades we don't get to see.

[Mensch]

Right. And I'm not sure it happened in Cleveland.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would.

[Mensch]

I'm not sure they would have done it the same way.

[Todd McShay]

And I'll be honest. Is there a play. Is there a single player in this draft that would give them a better shot? The Jaguars. That is. Of getting in prime time more than. I'm not saying that's why they did it. He's his. His tape speaks for itself.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I love a ton of dudes on that defense, too. Like, Trevor Lawrence can finally get back to, like, you know, the NFL looks weird. Is you can feel like you're so far away, and if a couple things click, like, granted, your franchise quarterback playing to the level that we think we've seen.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That would solve a lot of their problems.

[Mensch]

It swings, man.

[Todd McShay]

Well, this started with Shador, and it took a couple rights and lefts.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you want to do the big Shador thing?

[Todd McShay]

No, I don't want to say no.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We have to do it at some point. I mean, I don't know if we close with it or not. I mean, obviously, we all have thoughts.

[Todd McShay]

We were better, like, laying out shows and stuff. So what do you. What do you say? Producer, director.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, this is your show. So I'm sorry.

[Todd McShay]

I think this. I think this has been humbling for Shador Sanders.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I feel humbled. I don't even know him.

[Todd McShay]

I think. I think that.

[Mensch]

Has it been humbling?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I guess that's a good question.

[Mensch]

It should be humbling. It would be humbling for you or I or you.

[Todd McShay]

And I'm not like, listen, I'm not in the business of saying that he needs to be humbled.

[Mensch]

Like, I don't think that's true either. I agree with you on that.

[Todd McShay]

Like, who am I to say he needs to be humble? All I care about. I've said this, I don't know, since January. There's one place and one coach I want to see him go play for. It's Kevin Stefanski. So Kevin Stefanski Remember, you know, he's never needed to work with a big arm. Mobile quarterback, right? And you go back, was it, was it Case Keenum? Case keenum. They won 11 games. Kirk Cousins, they won 10 games. These are not big mobile strongarm guys. And that's what they brought in. They brought fast processing, right? Fast processing, precision, accuracy, leading receivers, yards after catch, all those things. It's the perfect fit. So, yeah, it's weird, but, you know, it's weird that Dylan Gabriel gets drafted before him. But you know what that does. Like, there's all the. You're not drafting just Shador. It's just like Tim Tebow. You're not just drafting Tim Tebow. You're drafting everything that comes, the cameras, the media attention, the handlers, the different things that you, you normally don't get with a backup quarterback. And so now it's like sort like, sure, now like, we can't, we can't adhere to that request. We can't. You're, you're just in line with everybody else and like, yeah, his availability, media. Yeah, like when, when, when Dylan's available, he'll be available just like. So I think from an organizational standpoint, drafting him where they did, especially in Cleveland as the second quarterback they drafted and probably comes in fourth on their depth chart, there's like, you're like everybody else. And it's not even to Shador as much as it is to everything that comes with Shador.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, let me start by asking you guys this question. How do the Mox fuck it up this bad?

[Todd McShay]

I didn't have them in the first.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you? I mean, if you had to do the seventh round, mock that. You did.

[Todd McShay]

I did. I did. 10 picks. I did. 10 picks in the second round. Didn't have them there. I would have put him at 83. Here's the deal. I would not have put him at 83 had I done a 7 round mock the night before the draft. I would have put him at Cleveland with one of those two picks they had early in the second.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They had the first and fourth pick in the second round.

[Todd McShay]

I would have put him there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, right. But by the way, the number of times Cleveland. I'll just repeat it. The number of times that they've passed on him. You know, this is not the same thing. Okay, but when Baltimore took all these victory laps about like we saw at Lamar, it's like he actually traded out of the pick three times. Right. He traded back in. So good for you trading back in and getting Lamar at the end of the first round. But, I mean, if you really thought he was the man, you would have taken him at 16. You would have taken me in the early 20s. And they took a title all the time. So there's. You know, I'm not making any sort of comparison of. Of Lamar and Shador, but I almost feel like Cleveland just got to a point, was like, okay, this is ridiculous. Like, our grade on him is this. Even if we were, because I think a lot of people were coming in going, all right, he'll go 33rd. He'll be the first pick of the second round. And then again, when Brewer was on the pot, he's like, I don't think that's happening tonight. And he goes, and if it doesn't happen tonight, he's like, I think he could be in for, like, a really long weekend. And then here we are. So I want to ask, can you ever remember somebody being mocked? Like, you could say, all right, night before? If I were updating the mock, I would have had him in the first. I maybe don't even have them. You just said 83. But, I mean, we're talking about somebody who went in the fifth round other than a medical. That's how.

[Todd McShay]

That's why. And I said this yesterday. That's why it's so important. This wasn't. 144 is where it was drafted. And that'll be the number for Shador in terms of, like, chip on his shoulder. Just like 199 was for breakfast. 144 was going to be his number.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

But how about that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Brady being his guy and passing on him, I think, what, eight times?

[Todd McShay]

Eight times was it.

[Mensch]

I mean, again, we look back on this and we say, Brady is his guy. Was Brady ever his guy? I mean, I don't know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, there's not enough of his guy to take a quarterback he didn't grade right. I'm sorry I jumped you there.

[Todd McShay]

No, I'm just. I told. No one else wanted to talk about it. That was the shocking thing to me. And I get, like, Networks have coverage. There's pro days. There's Colorado showcases. There's. There's Colorado games. There's commercials. There's all these things. But I'm not the information guy, right? I talk to people. I get information. I purposely. When I have information, I don't even bring it up because I like, I stay in my lane.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But shouldn't you have better information then? If you're not, like, you're not. They're not threatened by you. Being a reporter maybe.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe something. And just relationships, friends. But two friends of mine in the league who were in those rooms, which means they're like, they're part of the decision making group for interviews at the combine. And I'm having lunch with one guy and then I talk to another guy after and they're both like. And they. I didn't ask him anything about Shador. They weren't even sitting there bashing them. It was just like, yeah. And it was like the 10th guy maybe we talked about was like, yeah, Shador didn't really care what we thought of him. Like, it was weird. It was so different than all.

[Mensch]

So a lot of people come out after, like, how dare you?

[Todd McShay]

Well, no, how dare you. But that, but that's why eventually, because I'm looking, I'm looking to see if all the information people. And who's is it? Because I'm not the only one getting this information. I was shocked by that. So I came out after the combine and I was like, listen, I don't know. It's already a shrunken pool of places to go because of the starters that are in the league, because of the scheme, because of his traits. It's already a shrunken pool. And you get six teams drafting in the top 10. And these were two teams in the top 10 that needed quarterbacks at the time. And so now you've just done that to it. So. And then there's reports of how things went with Brian Dabo and the Giants. So like now you're like, so it got to a point where. And so my whole point in this is the evaluation for almost across the board in the league. The highest one was, yeah, maybe the Giant. There are some people in the Giants building reportedly who wanted to take him at three. So it's three. The most of the league was like middle, late first. And some people who didn't like him were like, yeah, second round.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So it sounds like he was just losing a million ties. And then the more it kept going, like if this happens in other drafts and it's a less like a lower profile player, you're starting to go, okay, does this guy have a knee thing that we don't know about?

[Todd McShay]

And then it's not that.

[Mensch]

Yeah, I was trying to think position. A position player may fail, but think about the quarterbacks that have all. And like the big falls. Brady Quinn, Aaron Rodgers. Would they go in the 20s?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mensch]

So they went from top.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And Rogers, three or five.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, but they were in the 20s.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's with the first round, we knew if New Orleans didn't take him at nine, then it was like, he's in trouble if somebody doesn't trade back in. But it did feel like framing it and like that was the thing with Rogers, who drove me crazy during that draft. It's like, okay, we don't have to go to him after every single team that doesn't need a quarterback. So brutal.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He wasn't going there again unless there's a trade. He wasn't going, going there. But again, it's a TV show, so it sort of plays out that way. I don't, I don't know what the lesson with this will be because I saw, or I guess I would say I've seen a lot of really good arguments and I, I'll use two different things. Brer. And then Jeff Darlington at ESPN where Breer was like, look, with backups there comes a point where you go, I need you to be this way to accept being a backup. And there's nothing about your door. Our assumption would be like, I don't really know that he's going to be that guy. If you look at the way that it's handle the pre draft process and by the way, Dion must have almost zero juice when it comes to information in the NFL.

[Mensch]

Zero.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They did this on their own. You can criticize it, I think fairly now and go, how could you not have any contact with anybody that matters? Maybe this is where an agent actually helps you. Maybe an agent actually gets you drafted a little bit higher with this stuff. It's like you're just sitting there throwing a party and decking out your home and you have no intel whatsoever that this is potentially on the table.

[Todd McShay]

We were doing a show and I said, the winds are shifting, aren't they? Because remember like October, November, it like it was. We didn't have to speculate. I thought we would have to speculate that Dion was gonna, gonna do backdoors. Eli Manning. Manning.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He just started saying it.

[Todd McShay]

He came out on shows, he's out on shows like, like saying there's some certain organizations that can't draft my son. Then all of a sudden, I think it was, it was after the combine and some, you know, people were starting to realize like things didn't go well. And all of a sudden it was like, yeah, we're happy with it. We like, I've approved all the teams in the top 10.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's like, oh, good to know.

[Todd McShay]

I remember came, I came on the show and I was like, boy, the Winds have shifted a little, huh?

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So it's it. And I think he started to realize, oh, I don't. Some like, sometimes you get the hammer and you get to drop it, and sometimes you just don't have the hammer. And I think he realized that they were more the nail in the situation.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, they it. And we didn't even have to like speculate on it. Like you just said. They share it enough throughout the process to be like, you guys think you're in control of this thing. And time and time again it's like the evaluation does not allow you to do this. And you know, we can talk about the backup part of it is who do you want? You want somebody. Look, the NFL locker room does not want free thinkers, okay? And if you're not a stud, you're not allowed to like necessarily be one of those guys. Like I imagine. You know, Cam Newton's even talked about like I have. I mean, he said it's. And I don't know the word for word quote, but it was pretty amazing. He's like, my aura is like at max, so therefore no one even wants to bring me into a locker room.

[Mensch]

And he wasn't wrong.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The Tebow stop in Philadelphia was littered with just bullshit where you're like, dude, you might not make the team okay.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, I know you were really famous, but this is kind of a pain in the ass. And so I could see for some teams that being the assumption, but then again, that was kind of the beer point. The, the darling point was like, all right, I mean, talent is talent and whatever the grade is. And we've seen plenty of teams when they even have a quarterback in place. I mean, that was always the Belichick thing. He takes Kevin O'Connell early when Brady's like 31.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And you're going, what are you doing? They take Garoppolo or they take Garoppolo. And again, Belichick was always somebody that was trying to go against conventional wisdom, but it feels like Chador paid a very clear price. The way they handled it. The mis evaluation of where they were at the pre draft stuff, we've yet to hear like a good story from all of it. Whatever that price is. A fifth round pick today feels like an excessive price.

[Mensch]

Yes, I totally agree.

[Todd McShay]

I, I wanted to bring it.

[Mensch]

Punishment doesn't fit the crowd.

[Todd McShay]

I think there two things are important to note and I think it's a good lesson to any quarterback who's ever going to go through this process. And honest to goodness, like, it's a good lesson in life. Dylan Gabriel.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I'm not here like, this is. The McShay show isn't a life lesson place usually. Occasionally Dylan Gabriel was attacked it and was awesome. Like everyone I talked to, A plus interviews, don't know if he's big enough, don't know this that. But like just an awesome and would be great in the quarterback room. And I think, like I watched some of these shows in the coverage and the thing that's missing, no one's talking about if he ain't gonna be a starter. If you're not looking at him and saying he's absolutely a starter and that guy gets drafted in the top 10. If he's not going to be a starter. His most valuable role in this organization is to be productive and helpful in the QB room, period. Taking notes, doing research assignments.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. This feels like the Chase Daniel thing where it's like, I know who I am and who I'm not, but if I just do this right, I can.

[Todd McShay]

Probably stick around for a while. And Dylan sold himself. Dylan sold himself in job interviews as that guy. Shador obviously wasn't going in with the mindset of I want to be a backup and he shouldn't have. But a lot of people left the room being like, I don't. Okay, if we don't view him as a starter, a definitive starter, then what his role is going to be as backup, Is he going to handle that? How is he going to handle that? And is he going to come with a lot of attention? And a lot of GMs got enough on their plate. You've talked to coaches. A coach has got enough on their plate. They don't want to have to be dealing with the backup quarterbacks stuff. Yeah. So that's. That's what led to all this. But. But then the positive is, at the end of the day, the human being. The human being has been humbled. This has been a shocking experience for him. But at the end of the day, he's in the National Football League.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

He's a Cleveland Brown. Yes. He may be fourth in the depth chart. Yes. He got drafted after Dylan Gabriel. I promise you this, he'll get every opportunity to beat out Gabriel.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I can also promise you this. If he goes in with the right attitude and it takes the chip on his shoulder pick 144 and attacks this process, he's going to beat out Dylan Gabriel because he's just better. Yeah. And this is the perfect system for him, whether he's ever the starter. In Cleveland or not. Who knows?

[Mensch]

But.

[Todd McShay]

But it's a perfect system to showcase in training camp this year. If he gets a shot to play and an opportunity arises somewhere else, they will get the best out of Shador.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And if they struggle with the old line like they had injuries last year, Shedor's your guy. Because he doesn't hurt me.

[Todd McShay]

He's used to it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

I'll make a clumsy attempt here to tie this to the NBA and you'll know better than me about this. But I read maybe you said it. I heard it from someone. Guys go down to the G League and they try to figure out how to score 40 points a game and. And what they should be doing when they go down there, and I think this ties in a little bit, is what role does their team need? Like, is it. Is it a defender? What do they need to do for their team? That's how you make the NBA team. And now Shador is in the sense of he thinks he's a guy that's going to come in and throw for 400 yards and four touchdowns every game. And they need a guy who's going to come in and help their starter get ready and maybe develop. And if you don't know what your role is and teams are set up that way, know your role, then maybe they're not as excited about bringing them in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I also were. It's kind of like the Jackson Dart conversation where all of those things may work out. I'm with you, Todd. I think Dable's rep among football people is. Is pretty solid. And I feel like that's probably underselling it a bit. I mean, if Saban's bringing you in and then raving about you after you're gone, yeah, that's probably a pretty good sign. But, man, like, Jameis thinks he should be a starter somewhere. Wilson thinks there should be a statue of him somewhere.

[Todd McShay]

He's your favorite.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

All right.

[Mensch]

I gotta go get a guy.

[Todd McShay]

See you mention first one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What just happened.

[Mensch]

The Alabama tight end went ahead of Dupree, by the way.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I feel like I'm not prepped on what's now.

[Todd McShay]

Oots. Oots?

[Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

You didn't write up Oops.

[Mensch]

Nope.

[Todd McShay]

Robbie Oots.

[Mensch]

He's in there, but not written up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They didn't use him a lot.

[Todd McShay]

He's a big tight end, great blocker.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Maybe it's like a personal brand thing, like his own clothing line or something. With Sanders, that turned beautiful a lot, huh? Just speculating. I think we nailed it.

[Todd McShay]

I think we did too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let's, let's. Whatever you want to do, man. I'm excited.

[Todd McShay]

I want to go to some other teams that, that have picked well and that I, that were intriguing to me. Let's actually stay there with Cleveland.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Tess Johnson's still available.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's your guy. You love the Ducks. Cleveland. While we're on the subject moving back get a first round pick. What's interesting about the. Both quarterbacks. Forget the Shador.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But a second change positions in the fourth and a first next year to move back to.

[Todd McShay]

Yep, a first next year signaled to me. Huh. There's Garrett Nussmeier. There's. There's Eleanor Sellers, South Carolina. He kind of. I like Sellers.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You think Sellers is a pro already?

[Todd McShay]

I think he's getting there. I think he's escalating.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think the best version of him is awesome. But he's such a freak too.

[Todd McShay]

Let's, let's, let's give him another year starting.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I can't wait. Hey, look.

[Todd McShay]

I mean look at the tv.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Every week at this house.

[Todd McShay]

Cam Ord was a fifth round pick coming in this year. Number one overall. Like, I think that, I think he's on that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's the NFL NBA thing. That always like blows my mind.

[Todd McShay]

Tell me there would just be never.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like there's no scenario where a guy would be. Yeah, he's the same 70th best NBA prospect. So outside of the only two rounds and then the next year he's a first overall pick. Like your variance on what quarterbacks can or can't be year to year with the. And it speaks to again, Jaden Daniels too.

[Todd McShay]

So it's not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not getting failed, you guys. It's almost like officiating. Okay. People get mad about officiating in all sports. I accept that officiating will forever be flawed.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what? I'm going to live longer because of it. Not gonna get mad.

[Todd McShay]

You look like it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. There's philosophical things about officiating that I don't necessarily love.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But like sometimes in life you just have to accept that things are incredibly flawed. And evaluating the quarterback, I don't believe that there's this magic island of great evaluators that haven't been, you know, allowed to speak their mind because everybody thinks you guys are morons and that every time you get this wrong. But I would say the basketball football part of it that is always shocking to me is that you can have like a Matt Barkley be a top 10 pick or the number one overall pick, and then one season later, he's a fourth round pick. And so, you know, Cam Ward is just another example of this. Joe Burrow is an example of it. Jaden Daniels is an example of it. Joe Burrow and Jaden is. What's really funny about those dudes is their first years at lsu, you're like, okay, maybe, like, at least they have a guy. And then they end up being the number one overall. Well, of course, Jaden's case, the number two pick.

[Todd McShay]

A lot of people apparently are want to talk about your shorts. And I feel like it's a subject that needs to be addressed. I think you look great. It was a leg day yesterday. I mean, you look great. But I think we would be remiss if we. We didn't. We didn't talk back to people.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They started riding up a bit.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, maybe so.

[Todd McShay]

All right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know what to tell you. I. You know, it's funny how many people that comment on how I look.

[Todd McShay]

At least you're wearing socks today, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

They've never sat down.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, right, right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So, you know, just shout out to you guys for being on your feet all the time. But, yeah, no, my shorts are always a, you know, look, man, we get quads. Like. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

The shorts have nowhere to go. Yeah, Nowhere to go but up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm at my house, by the way, too.

[Todd McShay]

And by the way, we invaded it. My man went to fish last night. He's got four NBA playoff games tonight. He's been kind enough. We've got. We can't turn the camera.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I was turning down ketamine all night because I knew how long of a day this was going to be.

[Todd McShay]

Well, and. And for that, we appreciate you, my man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Tweezer without ketamine, you know how hard that is?

[Mensch]

They played two last night.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Reprise. Mench hasn't been interested in anything that's come out of this for five rounds.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When I was walking up to the Hollywood Bowl.

[Todd McShay]

He's going to Hollywood boy bold to see fish tomorrow night.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are you really all right? I love that you're doing that. It's the best venue. It's so great. And my favorite part of the night, there's many highs. Pun. Somebody walks by is like, Priscilla, we're gonna get that Piper tonight. And Piper we did get. So I was happy about it. Do you like jam bands, Todd?

[Todd McShay]

Not my thing. My. My good friend Meredith Katz has been working on me my whole life. She's. She's. She's going tonight. So I've been around it like, I don't mind some. Hey.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, I love all.

[Todd McShay]

I love all music.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You were in Virginia. I would have thought you'd have some access to it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You get back to the draft. I'm sorry.

[Todd McShay]

That's fine.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The shorts just derailed it.

[Todd McShay]

Sorry. I don't even remember what we're talking about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But let's. Let me give you something that I want to talk about.

[Todd McShay]

Let's roll.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I knew. You know, each year it's like, hey, the 15th pick is really this. Or like the fifth pick is like the 15th pick. I love that kind of stuff. Right. It was all sort of arbitrary and same years. You think these terrible drafts end up being really good. But I loved this second round. Like, I'm watching the first round here the other night and then I'm looking at the best available stuff and I'm like, I. I just. I mean, whether it's even worry. Our dude Nick from South Carolina, Luther Burden, who I do think is a guy that can at least stretch the field.

[Todd McShay]

Debo Samuel comps. Yep. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, he's a little smaller.

[Todd McShay]

I love Alfred Collins.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I felt like he was always showing up as a Raku Ferguson. The tight end stuff. Here you go. Mason Taylor Ferguson. I was even wondering as a Bears fan, should the Bears have gone Jalen Walker and then gone. We're gonna get one of these other tight ends. We're gonna have our pick of Ferguson, who by the way is. Is kind of a freak athletically. Taylor at lsu. I'm biased in that I felt like they sort of got away from him over the course of his career there. I think he should have been a. I think.

[Todd McShay]

And drag routes and flat routes and like that's kind of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And he's like kind of a too. You know, like when they needed something.

[Todd McShay]

Yep. And clutch moments always showed up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Granted, they've been stacked at receivers, so like, you know, the balance wasn't going to be there for him at tight end. Sell me on Loveland. And then doing something different as opposed to. I like Jaylen Walker better than Mikhail Williams. I could be entirely wrong about it. I know it's a size thing. Watching Georgia games, I felt like Walker there was just a little bit more that I liked. Did the Bears make a mistake not going Walker and then one of the second round tight ends.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think they made a mistake.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So Loveland really is that.

[Todd McShay]

Huh? I've thought it's pretty neck and neck between Warren and Loveland. And honestly, it took me going back and really Studying the tape because the quarterback play was atrocious this year. Watching him actually separate. Like it didn't matter where the ball went or how.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's just a little more juice to him than Tyler. Huh.

[Todd McShay]

And then I think about on the route stuff. You think about Ben Johnson and what he had in Detroit and now you start talking about weapons and like, how.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Does Loveland compare to laporta?

[Todd McShay]

Pretty. Pretty fairly. I think that's actually the comp that I gave him in my evaluations. Like a little bit leaner, a little bit leaner, a little bit.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Loveland's huge.

[Todd McShay]

Loveland's 6, 5 and change, but he's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not like crazy fast. I think Taylor ended up running like a 465 and Len was a 4 7. I actually know that's true because I looked it up today.

[Todd McShay]

I'm glad you did. But. But you think about what he can, how he can be used in Ben Johnson's offense. And then they bring in Luther Burden who's like screen game reverses different. Like can't. He can develop into a good route runner, intermediates and all that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So that's the knock on Burden now because when Burden got loose, it felt like, you know, I just like what I'm watching going, okay, that guy looks a little different. And Luther's had a lot of those moments in his life, 100%.

[Todd McShay]

And so now, now you're looking at. They're not Jameson. Jameson Williams is. Did more of a vertical down the field route runner. But you're talking about speed on the edge. And that's what Ben Johnson had. They bring in three offensive linemen in Chicago, veteran guys to protect the middle. Now. Now you bring in Luther Burden. Now you bring in Ozzie Tropillo who can now compete with those offensive tackles of right tackle or kick him inside to guard. Create a youth movement behind the. The older guys you brought in. Shemar Turner is a really good three technique they got in the. What pick was it?

[Ryan Rosillo]

God, I thought I even wrote him down.

[Todd McShay]

I think it's the third so. But, but I, I just like what they did. I. I look at that Detroit offense and the creativity that Ben Johnson has right when. But in order to utilize it like the guys in the lab always need space players. They always need guys who were.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So the argument for Loveland is that he's better in space than Warren is.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know necessarily after the catch as much as he is just separating getting open and I've got to. I've got a quarterback who's Young who needs security blankets and. But he's got juice to him. And yes, he's, he is good after the catch. Warren's different good after the catch. Warren's Gronk after the catch. You know what I mean? He's the closest thing to Gronk that I think's come out in the NFL draft, you know, since. But, but I understand why they pass because they're. Look, Ben Johnson wants speed. They want guys who can separate. They want guys that can. They can create and like, just more to their game, you know, I'm going.

[Ryan Rosillo]

To ask you about a couple fourth round picks. So when Pittsburgh was on the clock with the 21st pick in the fourth round, you're like, okay, maybe they do it here. Because I think if there's one thing that we all trust with Tomlin is whatever the distractions are. Like, I used to be at times on the fence about Tomlin, and then once I learned more about all the. That he was dealing with, with all the personalities of that team, I was like, this guy might just be coach of the year every single year.

[Todd McShay]

He's amazing. He's amazing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So you would have thought, like, he's better equipped to deal with whatever other teams were concerned about bringing Sanders.

[Todd McShay]

Perfectly equipped.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. So then he takes Jack Sawyer.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Who all I would need to see from Jack Sawyer's tape was him getting super mad about the Michigan flag. I personally think Captain Jack. Yeah. When people turn it into, well, you just got your ass kicked, so what are you supposed to do? Let you burn down my house because we lost.

[Mensch]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like. And granted, that was a horrible loss. Embarrassing loss. He was great in the game. He was incredible on that play against Texas to clinch that playoff game. So Sawyer, how does somebody like him go? Are we just talking measurables? We're talking lack of sideline to sideline stuff with him lasting that long.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. It's part measurables. It's part. I don't know that. That his traits in terms of like suddenness as a pass rusher and those sorts of things. And, and honest to God, like, have you looked at this edge class?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's so. I mean, I can't believe how many guys I've liked. It keeps going. Like another dude who a couple picks later, our guy from South Carolina, another gamecock, Kyle Kark. Arm length, the whole deal. How's he going the fourth round, but.

[Todd McShay]

Because we had Abdul Carter, Mikel Williams. What's up, men?

[Ryan Rosillo]

How about Abdul Carter asking LT for 56. Like, hey, dude, can you Pay property taxes in New York first. Before you start asking for the.

[Todd McShay]

That caught me off guard, too.

[Mensch]

That was like, War Moon gave one to Cam Ward.

[Todd McShay]

You see that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

These dudes need to stop asking.

[Mensch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Mensch]

No, I don't like it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, what's the whole fucking point? Like, we're retiring this stuff, right?

[Todd McShay]

I was always in the, like, make.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Your own number segment idea. Did Shador Sanders having his number retired this quickly devalue the retiring of numbers. Therefore, this generation asked to unretire them.

[Mensch]

Tuesday spot is it Travis Hunter get his number retired?

[Todd McShay]

Segment idea.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sidebar table this Pre show.

[Todd McShay]

How often do you walk around as a bachelor in this beautiful pad and just something comes up? You're like, segment idea.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Constantly speaking to your phone or. Yeah, no, I think that could be.

[Todd McShay]

A show just called Segment Ideas.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. It wouldn't be a great show. I don't know. They would pick it up when part of my take came to visit.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Tape a show. I purposely put up an entire whiteboard of a plot plot of, like, the worst movie ever. And I just was sitting there and I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever done. Like 30 minutes.

[Mensch]

Just left it up to just. You didn't know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, it wasn't a real movie that I was writing, but I was like, what would the notes be for the dumbest idea for a movie you could ever make? And then I had, like, the lines through it, and I was like. And then he time travels, then realizes that he is the father.

[Todd McShay]

What was their response?

[Ryan Rosillo]

They didn't. Even those guys. Right? Even those guys. Because, like, I think PFT was like. I looked at a few things and it was so bad, I didn't know what to say. But it didn't really. It didn't really land because I thought they were going to make fun of it because a lot of their humor can be a little sophomore.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

No, they're.

[Todd McShay]

They're watching. They promised they were going to watch actually today. I talked to them the other day.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's okay. Big cat make fun of anybody, so.

[Todd McShay]

No. Exactly.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ooh, the dolphins. What about the feeder? Probably not.

[Todd McShay]

This is why every day three should be here. Just listen to these takes and your. Your reactions. Yeah. Bears. Bears. Canard.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, Canard me. I. I think I derailed it.

[Todd McShay]

That's right. I want to. Abdul Carter, Mikel Williams, Shamar Stewart, James Pierce. All first round, Right. Second round. Ezra raku, who had 1.38 sacks per per game, led the FBS last Year. Tui Molalao, Nick Scorton.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Scorton. Dude.

[Todd McShay]

Femi Olade.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Gordon's on my list.

[Todd McShay]

These are all second round tape.

[Mensch]

He does show up on tape.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thank you.

[Todd McShay]

And Mike Green.

[Mensch]

And Mike Green was productive in Purdue too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. Then Mike Green, three star wide receiver. Crazy upside. Obviously some off the field stuff too.

[Mensch]

Is he a three star wide receiver coming to high school?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

I didn't know that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Look at that. That's why I come here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This isn't even my main sport.

[Todd McShay]

Ashton Galati, Landon. Jack Princely, umanmielen. Jordan Birch, Josiah Stewart.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Jordan Birch, I'd say, you know, I'd like the motor to be engaged a little bit more with.

[Mensch]

I love Jordan Birch.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I like the high end of it.

[Todd McShay]

But I. I thought there's a few.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Times where I'm like, is he out today?

[Todd McShay]

But in the third round, Arizona, like, plugged in. My point is everyone's getting value at these, at the, at these edge. This was the year Kyle Kennard. You just said fourth round. That seems insane. Going to the Chargers.

[Mensch]

It's the depth.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, my guy went Tyrion Ingram Dawkins first.

[Mensch]

First picking the fifth. Right.

[Todd McShay]

Have you. Do you ever. When you watch an NBA. NBA prospects. Do you ever watch NBA prospects and you're like, wait, this guy's more talented than everyone, but he doesn't know what he's doing at all.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, that's like that Tampa Bay Bucks edge guy Smith, number nine, who I keep holding out hope for.

[Todd McShay]

Really?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Am I wrong on that? Who? I don't know. I'm gonna miss. I'm out of season, so I'm gonna mispronounce his name right now.

[Mensch]

Is it Shonka? No.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, from the Washington. From Washington.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, I'll look it up here. I mean, this is super embarrassing because I should know, but again, it's almost May, so. No, this is so stupid that I don't have this off the top of my head because he actually does play or he's not on the team anymore.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's a shanka chown. Yeah.

[Mensch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like him too.

[Todd McShay]

I like him.

[Mensch]

He came out of Washington.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I like him tough, strong. So your guy went Tyrion Ingram Dawkins to the Vikings. I'm telling you, if they can coach him up and get the most out of him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How many snaps did he have with Georgia behind all those other guys? We got a snap count.

[Mensch]

Everyone eats.

[Todd McShay]

He was playing. He was playing and he was tossing guys around.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is like the Matt Castle Pick like, the only reason he's not going higher is he didn't get to. I don't know, because all the other dudes. So you're telling me this. This is the guy?

[Todd McShay]

6, 5, 2, 7 6. Well, look what men said.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Another tyrant hybrid.

[Todd McShay]

Defensive end, three man defensive tackle, four man front mench just did edge setter. Yeah. Oh, no.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I did that earlier. God, you're doing a lot. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks, man. That's why he keeps racing over to that table.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I. I thought he had a sandwich.

[Mensch]

Try not to take that personally.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay? But look, let's stay at the edge, guys. We've got Braden Swinson, lsu going this late, too.

[Todd McShay]

I. I had like a.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's.

[Todd McShay]

I had like a third on him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's good. He and Whit Weeks are the best defensive one year.

[Todd McShay]

Awesome. He was awesome.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But he transferred around. I know he's. He's 23 in July, but now, what's the story? We don't have a 40 time on that guy. What is it?

[Todd McShay]

I don't think he ever ran. I know he didn't run.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's usually a good sign.

[Mensch]

Mean, no combine. Best running back in the SEC just got drafted. You got to know who I'm talking.

[Todd McShay]

Dylan Sampson.

[Mensch]

Nope.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, he already went from Ole miss.

[Todd McShay]

Judkins transfer.

[Mensch]

J.J. be.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Judkin went.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, J.J. be.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I watched his family shoot hoops in their driveway, and I was like, I'm all in. His whole family. They were like, in the middle of nowhere playing. Pickup is like dad's house.

[Todd McShay]

Well, where'd you watch this online coverage?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where do you watch? I was doing that. That was just a day off. That wasn't even prep. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So try and show. Youka is now on Cleveland. And I don't know why I was calling him Smith. Yes.

[Mensch]

I knew who it was, too, though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. He's 25. We're still holding out hope. Five years in, four years in. This will be his fifth.

[Mensch]

I felt like his rookie year was his best year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You would be accurate at least. Well, I don't know. I just fell for the sack number. That's. That's not the way to do the job, Cam.

[Todd McShay]

More going to be the guy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I defer to you guys. So I'd rather watch you guys battle it out.

[Mensch]

You get caught up in this where he would be last year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. But that's.

[Mensch]

I think that's a mistake.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And he's, what, behind four?

[Todd McShay]

Fine.

[Mensch]

Three. He's not behind McCarthy. I don't think he's my fourth. Pennis was my fifth and then Nick's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Was my fifth, sixth.

[Mensch]

So I would have had him ahead of McCarthy, but a lot of years he would have been, he would have been won. You know what I mean? Like last year was just different. Those three were insane.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know how, because I hear some people sometimes in and out of the NFL actually in including be like, I just don't. You know, that's an awfully big jump. How could he. Like he's a fifth rounder. And then I'm like, yeah, but like Jaden Daniels doing all right. Jaden Daniels has a fifth round grade in 2022. Came back in 2023.

[Mensch]

What was Baker?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Baker was.

[Mensch]

I know that everyone talks about the late jump, but going into that year he wasn't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's.

[Todd McShay]

There's been a lot of guys and it speaks. And that goes back to your conversation before in the NBA. It's. There's a lot of one on ones. It's an individual.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, there's never a guy that's predicted to be the number one pick. That's like completely off the radar.

[Todd McShay]

Right, I understand. But, but, but you're reliant on talent. 10 other human beings in that and then the system and the scheme and all that stuff. That's why it's also the hardest position maybe in sports, but definitely in football to evaluate. And that's why, that's part of the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Reason it's easily the hardest thing in sports. What is even close to being as hard as that?

[Mensch]

Baseball. No, hitting. All the analytics for that. I guess.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. But I think baseball, it's this one on one controlled environment. I mean you can be unlucky with something that happens defensively, but you're not going to be unlucky for 162 games. It all evens out drives.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I, my personal thing is always like if we, if we evaluated basketball players the way we evaluate quarterbacks, sometimes we would think that like Stroma Swift would be one of the greatest players of all time. As we stay on this LSU theme as New England turns into Baton Rouge North.

[Mensch]

I don't know who that is.

[Todd McShay]

Do you know who that is?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Kyle McCord.

[Mensch]

No. Stroman Swift.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Stroma Swift. He played for LSU. He was a top five pick and he. His dunk, his highlights were like right now my kids, if I'm upset having a bad day, I'll watch his dunks.

[Todd McShay]

Is that good? Really?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right back. Right. Okay. But he just wasn't good at kind of the basketball part, which is a huge problem that ends up being a huge.

[Todd McShay]

Kind of like my guy Tyrion right now. I mean, I'm hoping the best.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right?

[Mensch]

See how you do that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

That was good.

[Mensch]

Professional.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That was very good. So what I would say with quarterbacks is like, how many times we watch a fucking pro day where he throws against nobody and the receiver runs underneath the post.

[Mensch]

I'm going to try to keep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But guys keep my composure, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

So, wow, two balls hit the ground.

[Todd McShay]

Well, okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, I think I. I can't even throw football anymore. I don't even know. Like, if I had to throw to one other person, I would hope not that many balls hit the ground. So the pro day thing is stupid. The arm speed thing is stupid. The look at his mechanics inside the pocket when most of the throws are off schedule. So we're evaluating the perfect climate, the perfect situation of like, these throws. It's like, yeah, except you don't get to do any of those things. So we're asking a guy to process.

[Mensch]

A little stick and make him move around a little bit.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just think the things that we still in 2025 are emphasizing as important attributes have nothing to do with whether or not the guy's going to be successful on third and seven and being like, oh, I screwed the protection and now I got to be in my third read.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And can you still be accurate in chaos, right? Can you be accurate? Like, we have not figured out what translates or what has to happen unless a guy is completely off the charts or somebody we think is absolutely terrible. And so arm strength accuracy, like, you know, not to bring it back to Sanders, but you are the ultimate fraud in telling on yourself when you start throwing Shador Sanders accuracy around because of his completion percentage when all these throws were at or behind the line of scrimmage.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Completion percentage used to be one of my go tos. Like, man, 61% in this system, like, that's pretty good.

[Mensch]

That would just too, like, what's your average depth of target and all this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Stuff, dude, if you're not at like 75. And then even then I'm like, what are you guys doing throwing bubble screens the whole game? So I'm tabling it to you guys to get back to, like, do you think we'll actually be at a point where someone will go, I don't care where his Armstrong strength is. I don't care what his pro day look like. I don't care. Maybe you guys are already doing it, but it doesn't Seem to be the thing that plays the pro day is the pro days.

[Todd McShay]

The quarterbacks at pro day is built for television. I, I, I was like, give me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A bad pro day.

[Todd McShay]

Is there one Teddy Bridgewater? Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You guys both said at the same time.

[Todd McShay]

I was there watching him, like, I love Teddy.

[Mensch]

Love Teddy coming out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And honestly, Teddy, like, putting on a glove, taking off a glove. It's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was like, good up until he was hurt.

[Mensch]

It was Bortles, Manziel, Teddy that year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sure.

[Mensch]

And he never. None of them turned out to be great, but Teddy was the best of the three by far.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Was that Manzel that year, too?

[Mensch]

I'm pretty sure that was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you guys do Manzel's per day?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. With the, with the former president or president.

[Mensch]

The shoulder pads and I think once.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You'Re president, you're always. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Once you're president, you're always. It's like, Heisman. I got, I got spoken to it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you really?

[Todd McShay]

I said former Heisman Trophy winner. Like, oh, it's a Heisman, always a Heisman.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's a good lesson for all of us.

[Todd McShay]

Menzel's is the wildest of all time. It wasn't the best, but it was the wildest. I will never go to. You can't ever have a president not sitting, but a president of the United States. And I think you say former first.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Lady, hey, I gotta tell you, this TV broadcast right now of Shador, like, celebrating jumping into the pool and stuff after you get drafted.

[Todd McShay]

I love that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Does this change the narrative with the.

[Mensch]

Bible verse across the pool?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I would say, like, I wouldn't be doing that if I thought I was going in the first round. Like, hey, let's broadcast.

[Todd McShay]

Humanizes him. Like, like that he's pumped. The relief, the knowing where he's going.

[Mensch]

No one, I, I think we lose.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, we're all, we're all saying we don't have a. That's, that's cool.

[Mensch]

You think so?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think it's cool.

[Todd McShay]

He does. I know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, wow.

[Mensch]

I think it's all image.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Two to one.

[Mensch]

Like, you can't, you can't, you can't push me down, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I, like, so you think it's fake.

[Mensch]

I, I, for them, it's, it's all image. This is part of the deal. Like, think of all these young influencers, man. It's all spin.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How could you not all.

[Mensch]

It's like, maybe I'm just a cynic. Sorry.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Maybe I am the guy I'd rather Tom Brady going down to the. To the. And again, this is a little cheesy story, too, but he's going down to the little league part, and he's. And he's hitting balls with his dad because he can't be. He can't believe he hasn't been drafted yet. And he's so pissed off that he's gonna prove everyone wrong. I also. I always say this, too. I. I have a. This theory about guys that I've never really backed up. So it's not really. It's not really great. But here's the thing. When guys say, I can't. I'm so excited I got drafted. I'm going out with my boys. I'm celebrating. And then there's other guys who are like, I can't wait to get there. I can't wait to get to work.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right?

[Mensch]

He's celebrating. He's not like, you know what? It's been a tough day. I can't wait to get to Cleveland and start ripping heads off. He.

[Todd McShay]

He.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We saw him for 12 seconds, Mitch.

[Mensch]

I know, but that's. But that was my reaction to that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So you would rather the guys. Cool. I think he's had a rough couple days.

[Mensch]

You can.

[Todd McShay]

You can hate him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You can hate the whole Colorado thing. And, like, look, a lot of that was brought on themselves. You go 4 and 8 and you're on 60 minutes. Nobody's gonna like that.

[Mensch]

I'm glad it's over.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But he went way later than he should have. I thought your initial reaction was asinine, and I thought it was kind of flippant. I did.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh. However, I'm glad I'm here to break this up.

[Todd McShay]

I know. I. I think because my. My initial reaction was in line with you guys been through. I mean, that's a night.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Maybe I fell for it, but I. I'm like, the fact that he could do that, I'd be.

[Todd McShay]

I think both can be true. True. Because. Because that should be his reaction. Something of joy, excitement, relief. This has been a horrible experience. Yes. It just could not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You think the content is too good to not post.

[Todd McShay]

But.

[Mensch]

But I think.

[Todd McShay]

But here's the part.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right? Right.

[Todd McShay]

Here's the part. I agree with you because it did for me. For a second, I was like, devin Neal, my guy.

[Mensch]

My guy.

[Todd McShay]

And you're gonna listen, and you're gonna listen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The part I agree with you on after these. Devin, Neil is.

[Mensch]

Is against Colorado.

[Todd McShay]

Why do we. Why do we have to. Why do we have to take a video of it and why do we have to. Why do we have to send it to the networks?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, dude, first of all, they didn't send to the networks. It was on his Tick tock. They pick it up immediately. Content. So that's fine.

[Todd McShay]

That was all shot.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That was all shot on a phone. And by the way, like, look, I can't believe I'm the guy having to.

[Todd McShay]

Say this in the room.

[Mensch]

I like to put you in the. In the corner here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, yeah, like, are you not aware of how dudes operate now at that age? That's what I mean. Of course this is going to be posted.

[Mensch]

Maybe I'm the old guy yelling at the cloud.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I saw a kid who had a miserable couple days. Everybody's on him left and right.

[Todd McShay]

And I don't even necessarily. That's my gut.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't love all the Colorado stuff at all.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely. My gut.

[Mensch]

I actually. You know what's been interesting?

[Todd McShay]

I'm happy for him, too. There's a lot of.

[Mensch]

I think he hasn't been on by everyone. I think there's been a lot of people that gotten his back and rightfully so. I think it's good.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I.

[Mensch]

People went online were like, some of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The arguments are stupid. If it was the NFL colluding, then wouldn't some team that thought he sucks and is a terrible person and be like, I hope someone in our division takes him.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Talk to me about Devin Neal. What have you seen in him?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ah, love his toughness. Change of direction. A little undersized, but I think Kansas used him in space really well.

[Mensch]

His numbers are almost exactly Kareem Hunt's numbers. He reminded me Cream Hunt so much.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I like the Kareem. Kareem Hunt.

[Mensch]

He's just Kareem Hunting.

[Todd McShay]

I like him a lot, but I don't like him as much as you do.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about Danny Stutzman? That guy could change. You want to talk about culture, tone setters.

[Mensch]

You know what I worry about, though? A lot of missed tackles.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A lot. He's everywhere. But when he. When he makes him the celebration and.

[Todd McShay]

He made 400 of them. New Orleans had it. Yeah.

[Mensch]

The numbers don't.

[Todd McShay]

Hold on. What did New Orleans do?

[Mensch]

I want to look Quincy Riley.

[Todd McShay]

Quincy Riley. I was a third round.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Why is Jalen Reed still available?

[Todd McShay]

I know you don't care about breaking.

[Mensch]

Wasn't as good as I wanted to be, man.

[Todd McShay]

Can we. Can we talk about the best quarterback potentially in this draft?

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's certain uniforms where I fall for guys.

[Todd McShay]

I've lost complete control of the show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What do you want to do?

[Todd McShay]

I want to talk about the quarterback that may wind up actually being the best quarterback in this draft. And I said that coming into the process, and now that I know where he's landed, I'm starting to feel like that could be the case. When we look back three years from now, I said I won't be shocked. I'm not, I'm not predicting. Predicting it, but I am saying there's a chance Tyler Schuck is the best quarterback from this draft. When we look back in three years, Listen, I believe in Cam Ward. I've said nothing but positive things. I can't remember the last time I said anything negative about Cam Ward.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Probably Florida game and he threw it back across the middle of the field.

[Todd McShay]

I've made some comments that are constructive about his game and what needs to improve, but that has to stop. I got nothing. I got nothing but love for some of those games.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, they're like, I'm going out of bounds now. Let's see if anybody catches this.

[Todd McShay]

But Tyler Shuck could. I'm just gonna keep ignoring both of you and just keep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but those asides, I'm good. Will Howard to the Steelers.

[Todd McShay]

I do love Will Howard to the Steelers. Tyler Shuck may wind up being the best quarterback in this draft. Thoughts?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I haven't watched him enough at the last stop. I didn't watch him a lot this year.

[Todd McShay]

Louisville. Yeah, you missed all of it, so.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I missed everything that mattered.

[Todd McShay]

Well, you literally, you read the first 20 pages of death, destruction, famine, and then you, you missed the last 200 pages of like redemption, perseverance, happy ending, all that.

[Mensch]

He was a good dude.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend a lot of you guys. I didn't feel comfortable as the pre draft process went through. You know, I didn't have the huddle to going, so. Okay, all right, sell me on. If you say he can spin it first, I'm out. The whole show's over.

[Mensch]

The man. Can you spin it?

[Todd McShay]

I think, I think, I think this guy. I think a major part of the problem when quarterbacks don't. Don't make it or aren't ready for the moment in the NFL. They don't know who they are yet. They aren't mature enough. They haven't take. They. A lot of these guys are getting paid young. A lot of These guys are 7, you know, 7 on 7. The Elite 11s. They've been groomed since they were like 12 years old. They have not faced real adversity in life. He was carted off the field once after one of three season ending injuries and thought football was taken away from him. He was in the recruiting class and highly, highly recruited. The choice between a bunch of different places chose Oregon. Oregon's on the rise. He's the backup to Herbert.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Seven years ago, yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When he came in, he showed at least the recruitment. Brooding flashes of what it was. But the talent's there.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but he, he almost had football taken away. He bounced to three different schools. He got with the Brahms, who were one of the handful of. It's one of the handful of people in college that truly can develop a quarterback mentally in terms of understanding verbiage and understanding concepts and reads and progressions and all that. And so he enters the league with a unique perspective and level of maturity that Cam Ward also has to a certain degree as well. With three different stops of his own in five years and, and what he went through. And a zero star recruit they came from. One's a zero star, one's a five star. And his road was rocky. Right. Cams was like chunks away. Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Cam was like challenging himself at each stop. Correct. Right.

[Todd McShay]

Better and better. 100%. But his, his journey, my least favorite word in today's culture. But his, his experience was. Was very different than Cam's. Had massive setbacks. And now you enter the league and you're like, yeah, I'm ready for anything. And if it's as a backup, I'll contribute.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Because even some of the stuff with, with at least what I was talking about with Cam, some of those throws were just of all the things you're going to do and clearly didn't get in the way of him going number one one. But I'd say the tape got better from. Hey, what are you doing right now?

[Mensch]

You know, Washington State, man, there's a.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Lot of like what is. What are we doing? Yeah, right. By the way, Ohio State with Howard. Is that 14 picks by Ohio State. I asked the question, is the shift complete? The Big Ten, the best talent conference.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, gosh.

[Ryan Rosillo]

In college football.

[Todd McShay]

We have all summer to talk about this.

[Mensch]

We took a lot of heat for this. In the fall, a lot of heat because Alabama's not Alabama anymore. So now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, the Big Ten won back to back titles with two different teams for the first time in 80 years. So that's enough evidence for me.

[Todd McShay]

So you're a Big Ten guy.

[Mensch]

You're not worried it's top heavy?

[Todd McShay]

I grew up a Big Ten Guy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I still.

[Todd McShay]

It's hard to come off sec.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think that the talent throughout that schedule is still a joke. They just didn't have good quarterbacks this year.

[Mensch]

I mean, the Indiana run kind of shows the weakness of that conference.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I've never seen. I've never seen a fan base enjoy two late touchdowns that meant nothing more than the Hoosiers in the playoff game.

[Todd McShay]

Right? Yes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Mensch]

Made it tight.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Like that showed.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. We belong.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Look us up. Google us.

[Todd McShay]

I win. Google me. So you guys don't want to talk about Jonas Sanker and Quincy Riley and Devin Neal? I think the Saints had an awesome draft.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sell me on it. Give me more.

[Mensch]

What would you give me for a grade?

[Todd McShay]

I don't do grades.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wait. The pronunciation of the word is chance. Kelvin Banks is better than Will Campbell.

[Mensch]

There's a good chance.

[Todd McShay]

Let's do the Patriots thing.

[Mensch]

You want me to do the rants again?

[Todd McShay]

Like, no, you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You got.

[Todd McShay]

Bill Simmons came on our show.

[Mensch]

I jumped him.

[Todd McShay]

Mensch jumps him. There was, like, Internet problems.

[Mensch]

I didn't know what to do.

[Todd McShay]

Man trouble, patching him in. He comes in, he's got his hat back. I like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Men just, like. I get it. But, like, you know, this is sort of my men's.

[Todd McShay]

I introduce Mensch to, like, they're kind of like his boss in a way. You know, Steve, Bill, Bill, Steve.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Better content, if you're not looking at it as a hierarchy, though.

[Mensch]

Totally.

[Todd McShay]

And Mensch jumps him. It jumps Bill's ass. Like. Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We doing a podcast or an HR meeting?

[Todd McShay]

It was awesome.

[Mensch]

Bill's take was like. I made peace with it. I was like, really? You made peace with taking a guard at four? That's great.

[Todd McShay]

I'm glad you. That must. No wonder.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would have just taken. I would have just taken Jalen Walker again.

[Mensch]

That I'm fine with.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely would have. Oh, no. Patriots or Patriots.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And then my grade was really high.

[Mensch]

On Walker, obviously, and then it. It kind of went south when it was brought up. The Rabel put on the pads and. And worked him out, and I was like, I can't. I can't.

[Todd McShay]

I can't respond to that.

[Mensch]

Like, my vein and my neck was going.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. Like, Will's good. He's great.

[Mensch]

He's a really good player.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That offensive line, I don't know if he was making up for other deficiencies. I mean, they had. Emory went, what, in the third round? So you're.

[Mensch]

That was bad.

[Todd McShay]

He was bad.

[Mensch]

He shouldn't have gone then.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But there Was like a rep thing with that online going into this summer that it was like, these guys are going to dominate now. Somebody's going to have less time. And I would say over the course of watching them, I never really felt like, well, they can always count on the yellow line. So then when you're taking the left tackle and we know that it's one of your biggest needs. Yeah, I just hate the reaching stuff. Need.

[Mensch]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Especially that high where I think personally I would always default to is this a big physical corner that is going to be able to hold up one on one. I prioritize that. I prioritize edge. And even in edge heavy draft where they're playing the value game that we just went through all of those names. Yeah, I don't. I'll be honest, I haven't really liked your draft because I think, oh, who was it?

[Mensch]

Tyler Loop, the kicker.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Aeneas Peebles.

[Todd McShay]

I can't get mad at you about that. Yeah, I don't do kickers. I don't do punters.

[Mensch]

Okay, get them written up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you have one on Chase?

[Todd McShay]

Lunt did Border.

[Mensch]

Yeah, I do have Chase alone.

[Todd McShay]

Did you do like Bordeaux? You did or didn't?

[Mensch]

Yeah, I did. I didn't want to do any kickers and then I. The three year tallies told me about five would get drafted.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, the kicker game's tough. What are you going to write? He was really accurate. Give me a grade match.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Give me a grade on the pats right now with the kicker in the mix.

[Todd McShay]

Trevian Kyle, Trevion Henderson, Kyle Williams and Jared Wilson.

[Mensch]

Day two was a minus. I thought that day one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

They traded up for Joshua Farmer. I'll let you write it real quick, Mitch. Yep. But be quick. He's a freaking kicker. Would you like.

[Mensch]

You're gonna let me let. I like that you let me do things. It's good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

5 11. 170, buddy.

[Todd McShay]

I will.

[Mensch]

You guys are the best.

[Todd McShay]

No, that's Corey Galens.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I know, I know.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Mensch]

I just screwed up the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, they got a D tackle here. They took in the fifth round. Fourth round. Excuse me.

[Todd McShay]

The Patriots drafted him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, okay. The Miami kicker.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Mensch]

Why are we all live here?

[Ryan Rosillo]

You're gonna. You're gonna give me a sellout. Who do we need to talk about? We're good on the pats. I'm a little worried about the reach part of it. Yeah, I think if you're taking a left tackle four, I think I want to see like Jake Long type shit.

[Todd McShay]

I will say This, I had him as a 12th overall player. I don't like taking the 12th player at 4. And yes, I can't stand drafting for need, but I know this as an organization. Organization. There are three assets in this organization and only two if I'm Robert Kraft. There's three assets I'm looking at that I have in this Patriots organization. Two of them actually play on the field. One of them is very brill, and I would put them in this order of assets. It's Drake, May, variable, Christian Gonzalez and the rest. And now you brought in Milton Williams. Yeah, but like, so at one point.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was the least talented roster arguably in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely. It was down the bottom two, bottom three. And so that has all shifted, but none of it matters. Like, I was talking to Joe Douglas last. Last year, and I don't think he'll mind if I share this. There was a. It was a real hard decision to make. I think he was just sharing how a couple years ago they really wanted to draft Jameer Gibbs and the football for Aaron Rodgers took him out of that spot and they took Will McDonald and that turned out to be a great pick. But anyone with a brain recognized, well, the jets have a tight end need. Brock Bowers is awesome. But the only way this thing doesn't, if Aaron Rodgers comes back and is actually what we thought we were getting before the Achilles injury. The only thing that just derails this, it's not going to be whether we have a tight end or not. Like, he will elevate it, but it won't derail it. What will derail it is if we can't protect a 4, you know, going on 40 quarterback coming off an Achilles. And so you got to take Olu Fashano. Right? Right. Yeah. Penn State. And they did. And he played up and down this past year. Doesn't matter. But. But my point in this is, the only thing that derails the Patriots is if we can't protect this guy. And by the way, he was knocked out of two games. One with a concussion, another one, you know, and I was at that jets game, knocked out, and like, the game went from exciting and the energy and the offense, and things were rolling and it wasn't all pretty.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And they're talking 24, right? Yeah, because, like, May didn't even complete that many passes. But you love Drake May, I think you tweeted out, like, how much you loved him, even though statistically it was like, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

You could just tell he was in control. Nothing was going too fast.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I remember when you sent the tweet. I'd watch again. The game's like, what the hell is he talking about?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I love that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But yeah, beyond the box score.

[Todd McShay]

So. So he. So Vrabel then goes down to Dallas and they bring him in for a visit and they talk and like his football brain is beyond anything that you would expect. And everyone said that and Vrabel fell in love with him. And now it's like, we need leadership in this O line room. That there's a lot that went into this. I'm not saying I'm in love with the pick, but I understand. The pick, I guess, is the best way to put it. But here's the thing. You grew up in the vineyard. You been around these Patriots organizations when they were great and when they were horrible and then when they were great and then this little run we're on right now. Outside of Randy Moss, who's the last guy? If you like really close your eyes and think, who's the last guy that you're scared as an appointment?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, Aaron Hernandez. Scared?

[Todd McShay]

No.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean he was a tough cover. You could play him outside, put him in the slot.

[Todd McShay]

You're on. You're on a heater today. I love it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You're right. Guys that scare you, impact get the.

[Todd McShay]

Ball in their hands and they could catch a screen and go, I like.

[Ryan Rosillo]

David Givens a lot when he was there.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but like, no, your.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Your point is so tray.

[Todd McShay]

Beyond Henderson, like think about that 70 yard screen catch in the against Texas.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think about Trevian as a freshman.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When he came on the scene at Ohio State. It's weird. Like his story almost went in this circular route because then Judkins comes in and he's like the higher profile, more dynamic guy.

[Todd McShay]

He can't be the guy. He's got to be a compliment to these. The guy just like Jameer Gibbs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So why did you take him in the second round?

[Todd McShay]

Because you. Because he can do something nobody else can do in this class.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

He can take that screen pass and go 70 before halftime.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Todd McShay]

I heard. And then Kyle Williams, another speed receiver. I'm just saying they haven't had speed and they haven't had protection. And now their first four picks are Compton, Henderson, Kyle Williams and Jared Wilson.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So, dude, Riley Leonard, Colts.

[Todd McShay]

I'm surprised he lasted this long. I talked to a lot of people in the league who liked him, see.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If he picks up any garbage at the rookie event.

[Todd McShay]

Huh?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ah, just Colts QB thing.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, they. That's their Their role.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The leaders. The leaders do it. Hey, can we talk Kansas City here, please?

[Todd McShay]

Anything but picking up garbage at a rookie event.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Josh Simmons, Norman Lott.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Edge guy there from Louisville. If you were to say I need. I want to trust somebody in the mud. Where does Kansas City, where does Veatch rank on evaluation of that kind of stuff? Because the O line thing, we've. We are on a roller coaster of. Of O line production from Homes here. But I absolutely love how they reinvented this defense on the fly and all the people that like. I love the overall job that they've done. I think it's terrific. And it isn't just about homes, but clearly the O line thing here is a, a big problem outside because we all like the interior guys. Right.

[Todd McShay]

They've been awesome picking defense for the most part. They've been up and down with, with some other positions, obviously running back, offensive. I'm actually going. This is a good point you're making. I'm going to Kansas City DraftHistory.com I don't know who runs it. I have no affiliation, but I love. It's the fastest way to get to all these things. Things. When did they draft Mahomes? 18?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Or was that the first year he played? Was that the 17 draft with all those guys and they played in 18.

[Todd McShay]

Homes was 17.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. After that their next draft speaks Nandi defensive tackles. Linebacker, DB, DB, defensive tackle. Six picks, all defense. 2019. Nicole Hardman. But then DB, defensive tackle, DB. 2020.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Nicole didn't quite buy in. I don't know that he was a tone setter for the culture.

[Todd McShay]

Well, they've missed on the skill guys is my point. So then.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But, and then they've been on top of. They've missed and they've been unlucky with the guys that look like they're like Rice looked like he's going to be a guy.

[Todd McShay]

They, they. They have absolutely no fear when it comes to character off the field kind of stuff. They don't. And that's been proven over time every year. It's been heavy, heavy defense. And I've got this theory that when you find your quarterback, load up on the defense because the quarterback can make up for sins of 10 other guys.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Certainly that guy can. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

If you've got no, this is really interesting. But immediately teams that are really good at this, they shift it immediately. Like the Eagles, the, the Ravens, when they get their guy at quarterback, they shift it because. And you find closers because I'm trusting that this guy that we know is great and is going to be our guy for a long time. He's going to get us out to leads. Now we got to get closers because we're going to have leads. We've got to be able to close out games. And so they've done a really good job with that. But they've been up and down with some of their picks and the offensive skill and some of the old linemen. But Josh Simmons is the all time risk reward for the Chiefs. Josh Simmons, some of the character stuff, it's not like no horrible incidents. Nothing, nothing crazy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But yeah, we're talking like need though, maybe at 32 versus 4.

[Todd McShay]

Right, right. I'm telling you, I'm telling. I'm telling you right now. Josh Simmons is noticeably more talented than the number four overall pick in Will Campbell. Noticeably. The bend, the movement.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I wish we had a soundtrack to lay under that. That was hip.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, like noticeably better.

[Mensch]

That's the same face I've been making, by the way, for the last. The whole process. Every time I bring up the kid's name.

[Todd McShay]

But is he gonna buy in? So like, so Andy Reid's got a project on his hands, but if he develops this guy and hits, all of a sudden this offensive line is gonna take another step finally. And the biggest problem that they had in the super bowl and really was one of the biggest problems they've had for the last few years has been protection up front.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, I just look at this group and like McDuffie's a stud, obviously. Bolton's a stud when he can play. I think tranquil's turned into something here. Carloftis absolutely has. Leo Chanel, I always feel like shows up is making plays, finishes tackles.

[Todd McShay]

Chris Jones, obviously.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, they've reinvented themselves at corner here. You know, when you look at the receiver part of this, like, I thought Rice was going to actually work out for him.

[Todd McShay]

And so what do they do? That's their trend. They'll take it. They'll take an offensive player, whether it's a weapon or an offensive lineman early, and then they'll just load back up on defense.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like Xavier Worthy's not a one. You know, everybody lost their minds week one. I've already referenced this too many times on my show, but it was like a very classic disconnect of the Saturday and Sunday people of like week one. Xavier Worthy. They're using them and it's like, I can't believe it's like. Yeah, but I mean, you know, you guys spend months trying to Figure out who are the guys that look really cool in highlights and who actually know how to play the position. He was, you know, so is he a one? He shouldn't be a one.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's just need, they just need more explosive explosives.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They need Sky Moore. It's not really happening.

[Todd McShay]

They miss, I'm telling you, the offensive skill guys, they have had a hard time. Yeah, but were they provided? Like you're talking in the end of the first, he's basically a second round receiver. But he provided, I think this past year what, what they were hoping to get.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, that's fine, that's fine. It's just. Oh, Lad.

[Todd McShay]

Right. Absolutely. But I, but, but didn't he go after?

[Mensch]

No, McConkey went after.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you. But I, I also, if I'm, if I'm Andy and I'm Brett, I look.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'll just, I just, even though I watched him, I'd have a hard time watching Xavier Worthy run around next to lad McConkey and be like, I'll take Lad.

[Mensch]

It's true.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, I had him, I read him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, that's a little like the Alex Caruso thing. You're like, there's no way this guy's good. Is he? Right, right, right. Like he's already, what's going on with his hair? He's like 23. So I get it though, right? I, I, I don't know. I think Veech is great. I think Veech is bold. And you know when they had the disastrous protection situation from homes against Tampa Bay, where immediately you went, okay, this is probably going to be a long term problem. They fix it. You know, they put back in the old line, they figure it out again. We love the interior thing, as I mentioned. And then here we are again. It's almost the exact same story where you felt like all of the good stuff doesn't matter even with the best guy in the world behind center. It doesn't matter if you're going to sit there, especially with Philly just being four man rush all night long and you can't do anything against it because you don't like your tackles and you're moving thuney out.

[Todd McShay]

So everyone wants us. We did a poll, I guess. I didn't, I didn't turn. I actually talked to a really high level NFL personnel person. That's what they were saying about Campbell. Like, I love Campbell. I love him the person. But like if it's not working out a tackle, he's probably going to probably, probably Going to have to move into guard. And like. Like, I just have visions of. Of teams tuning him to death. Like, what. What the Eagles did to him, the long arm and seen, you know, super bowl stuff.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, that's a good.

[Todd McShay]

You.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You just made segment idea.

[Todd McShay]

Like, I think people, right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But after, like, they get together in high school and then, you know, 10 years down the road and I don't want to knock like, any professor or anything, it's like, hey, what happened to that guy? He seemed to have. He seemed to have, like, life by the ball, right? You know? Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I think I can think of two. Two off the top.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ladies loved him. Guys wanted to be him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was a good friend.

[Mensch]

Two friends are like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

People in high school are like, but.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The point that I'm getting to is.

[Todd McShay]

That a lot of potential.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, I thought that guy, like. I'm not saying he's doing bad. I just had much bigger expectations. And I think we should just trademark this and turn it into an everyday thing where you just look at your friend asking questions about the awesome guy, and you're like, we bumped him inside the guard. I think we should adapt that to life.

[Todd McShay]

We bumped him inside the guard?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Like, what's up with that guy? Like, is he living at home right now? It's like, no, no, no. He's got. He's gonna rent. He's actually renting out a place, but, like, there was a mortgage thing that I think had happened. It's gonna be all right.

[Todd McShay]

It's always going to be a damn good guard.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's never moving out of town.

[Todd McShay]

We just bumped him in the yard.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but we're going to.

[Todd McShay]

He's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He kind of just realized I'm not a tackle. I'm not a tackle of life. I'm a guard.

[Todd McShay]

We had a poll.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, we had a poll. What do we got?

[Todd McShay]

Which team's draft should we discuss next? The leader is the Raiders.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, let's go. Let's get. Let's get Mensch back here. When are you done with this finger? Is it you?

[Todd McShay]

Are you still on the. I feel like you're milking it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, and I wouldn't care. I gotta admit, this couch isn't the most comfortable thing I've ever sat on.

[Todd McShay]

But I wouldn't care. But I'm just getting, like, a stiff neck.

[Ryan Rosillo]

By the way, if anybody's interested, it's for sale.

[Todd McShay]

That's the only time in an hour and 32 minutes, Priscilla's looked at his single shot, and it wasn't even on him. Raiders. Ashton Jinty. That was a surprise. Wasn't a surprise for like three months leading up to the draft. Just don't bump the camera.

[Mensch]

You guys are great.

[Todd McShay]

But then all the. They. Good job by spy tech and that organization. They got some crafty word out there that they're not going Jinty late. And they got everyone robo dope. Yeah, every. The information was offensive tackle. Then I got as specific as Kelvin Banks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So you had someone straight up lie to you?

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I don't think they lied to me. I think they got lied to and bought it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is almost like a.

[Todd McShay]

Luke Newman.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, that Mulaney guy thinks he's killing it with that live show on Netflix.

[Mensch]

Luke Newman.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is at the same level.

[Mensch]

Have you watched that?

[Todd McShay]

Hey, one sack allowed on 400 pass block snaps last year at Michigan State.

[Mensch]

Yeah, I'll. I'll watch the tape.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Don't they just run the football?

[Todd McShay]

Have you ever. Can you.

[Mensch]

No, listen, it's seven passing attempts last year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Listen, it's a big Ten jokes.

[Todd McShay]

Listen, listen.

[Mensch]

What's happening on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What was going on?

[Todd McShay]

Listen to him type.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, he's a heavy typer.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mensch]

It's so bad.

[Todd McShay]

M. Type a sentence. Dude, the Raiders. Let's talk about it. That's. Yeah, we appreciate everyone getting. Getting going on the polls.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I want to hear about it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna shut up here.

[Todd McShay]

So. So Jinty was. It was a surprise. That wasn't a surprise, but turned into a surprise. Right, Right. That aside, I guess the question for me was always like, are. Are they in. Are they in a position to draft an Ashton Genti? You know, as they try to turn.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Things around, they're on the SEC run right now.

[Todd McShay]

The answer is they absolutely. Like, they. Pete Carroll didn't come in here to do a five year rebuild. You know, just. Period. And so you hearing anything?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Good day to day on Chip.

[Todd McShay]

Think about Chip. Chip lives down the street, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Not as close to the beach, but yeah, he's in the area.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Think about Chip with Genti.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I mean, he's gonna work to make sure. Like his best thing that. I mean, I'm sure he's evolved a million different times, but. Right. Isn't a lot of it considered that it's pretty simple. And then basically he's leading you into these mismatches where all of a sudden he's opening up lanes with concepts.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. Yep. So, I mean, can you imagine getting to work with Genti and do this Stuff and the thing that I thought was really important too with Genti and we talked about it with you guys when we did it, it's like, don't make the mistake of thinking because he was in this conference, like, granted the numbers were better because the conference he was in. But I thought the Penn State tape was no blocking. Right? Yeah, I, you know, I, I was looking at that game specifically being like, is he going to get his ass kicked against the NFL? Because Penn State's defense loaded with a bunch of guys, like a lot of guys on that side of the ball, but not the case. So keep going though, because I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it as much because I know that you're going to have the full scope of it more than I will.

[Todd McShay]

No, we're doing like God knows how long Tomorrow and all 32 teams and breaking it all down. I'm not worried about that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So you love Genti is your pick. You love Genti because of what? Geno because of Chip. What?

[Todd McShay]

Like, I don't, I don't think they're planning on doing a two or three year rebuild. Gino's turning 35, Pete's turning 85. Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

But, but like late, late 70s stats and info. So. So yeah, let's bring in weapons. Let's, let's, let's ride. Let's roll. Jack Besh. I love that pick in the second round.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dude. Bash was a freak. Complete matchup nightmare when he was at lsu.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know how they, how he got out of there. What was the deal?

[Ryan Rosillo]

They just, I don't know. I honestly, I still can't believe how little they use Mason Taylor towards the end of it. So. I never said that three times physical.

[Todd McShay]

He will block his ass off.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what is a baller?

[Todd McShay]

It's what Chip, like Chip's whole thing is the run's gonna set up the pass and it sounds so remedial, but like every, the concepts are off the run and our receivers gotta block. Yeah, they gotta block. Besh is one of the best blocking receivers in this draft. Great hands, works the middle of the field. Like he's just think about Chip stuff with like, like this receivers, like, you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Know, mesh concepts and, and like crossers.

[Todd McShay]

All the different things that they, they do and finding soft, soft spots.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When I think about Chip's offense, I think about, okay, we're gonna go a little bit here and then we're gonna go a little bit of here. Maybe it's a first down, maybe it's a second and five and then you think you have it. And then, then Besh is going to be running down the numbers wide open because nobody, they fell for everything that was setting up this seam thing. And that to me is like, whenever I think about offenses and guys, like whenever I think of Ohio State and, and Ryan Day, I think of a wide open post over the middle of Oregon. Right. But Oregon to me was always that.

[Todd McShay]

Against Oregon in the, in the college football playoffs. Two Abukas down the pipe.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Stupid.

[Todd McShay]

And Tennessee down the pipe.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Hey, eventually we're going to beat you over the top and our receiver is just going to run inside the post and your guy's never going to be as good most often in this matchup against us. So yeah, I do have different teams and their coaches where I always think of like, oh, this is with Chip. It is that. I swear to God. It is the, the tight end just sneaking out or the slot receiver. Slot receiver. Fine.

[Todd McShay]

And that's what Besh is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's why I love the pick. And the fact that they were like, I wonder. I would love to know how much Vegas looked at the early LSU tape and was like, what is going on with this guy? Yeah, obviously he's been through a lot.

[Todd McShay]

Darian Porter, the third round pick you talk about. He's got Tariq Wolin type traits. Former wide receiver. Kind of still figuring it out. Not. Not perfect in terms of technique and coverage. I'm telling you right now. And mention always blasting me for it. I'm glad he's not sitting here right now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Hey, can you give me your breakdown on Thornton?

[Todd McShay]

I'm in the middle of a sentence. Yeah, but you just said something's wrong with you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm getting tired, okay? I still have to watch 10 hours of basketball reek.

[Todd McShay]

Wolin's tape was trash at UTSA.

[Mensch]

It was not trash.

[Todd McShay]

It was not very good.

[Mensch]

But it wasn't trash.

[Todd McShay]

It was not very good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Trash is low.

[Todd McShay]

And he went in the fifth round. So the league kind of like, like. But there's traits and Porter's traits are absurd. Six three, £195, long arms, ran a four. What was it? Four, three, two or something silly. And he's a former receiver, goes up and gets the ball. I think he's going to be a player. So those first three picks are slam dunks. And they got a William and Mary offensive tackle. I won't even hold him against him as a Richmond guy. And mentions Guy Pegis best running back. In the sec.

[Mensch]

Six, four. Very long arms. 205. Ran a four, two, six.

[Todd McShay]

Who reek, woollen.

[Mensch]

Okay, give me the.

[Todd McShay]

When you rudely interrupted.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's all right. It's a live broadcast. You'll be okay. I, on paper, sort of love the receiving group for Tennessee. I think the times we looked at the room are, like, one through three, potentially four. Like, that's a really good group. Put up against anybody else. And then we saw in that game at Columbus, that might have been the coldest football team I've ever seen that was the least interested in playing football in a really long time.

[Todd McShay]

Shirts off, though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It kind of. It kind of like, I used to always think it was a bit of a bullshit excuse to be like, oh, it's because all these teams have to play in New Orleans and Atlanta. They never have to play up here. I'm like, dude, whatever. That game, I've opened my mind up to the possibility of some dudes just don't like it to be cold.

[Mensch]

I agree. I got really caught up in the fact that Ohio State had lost to Michigan just before that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Mensch]

And I was like, this game. Tennessee's gonna roll them. The Tennessee defensive front.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, wait, stop.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What?

[Todd McShay]

Stop. Are you done? Pause. Don't. Don't move.

[Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Are you done typing about.

[Mensch]

Well, we don't. I don't know what's coming next.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, hold on. Don't move. First of all, do you play guitar?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, yeah. Folk, though. And fingerpicking. Not traditional.

[Todd McShay]

Mench plays guitar. Not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, yeah, that's standard tuning.

[Todd McShay]

Bench.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Give me.

[Todd McShay]

Give me something right now on the broadcast app. Like, don't. You can't say no. Whose car? Whose car are we gonna take? That's the theme of the day.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's a pick in the. Yeah.

[Mensch]

Where is it?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, it's up there. We'll get to. We'll get to Thornton here in a second.

[Todd McShay]

I'm in. That's my boy. That's my boy.

[Mensch]

Does that work?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Good.

[Todd McShay]

All right. I'm glad. I'm glad you not know your surroundings.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You've been looking back there the whole time.

[Todd McShay]

No, my neck is tight and I've only, like. I look over, I see the hills in the background. I see Marissa, I see Jake, I see Tucker. But I can always see, like, you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Know, so you can't read the whole field right now.

[Todd McShay]

I'm having trouble. There's. We've been sitting in a lot of studios and seats, you know, it's time to get out and live. It's Time to get out and live. We don't get a record deal. That was beautiful, men.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Who was the best receiver on Tennessee last year?

[Todd McShay]

I think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Why do I love Brum McCoy so bad?

[Todd McShay]

Why are we talking about Tennessee? I like Bruce McCoy. I think he's gonna. By the way, I think he's gonna sneak around the league for a while and become like, a number four, like a possession.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think it's from right over that.

[Mensch]

Hill, you know, My theory is Nico was never that good. We thought he played volleyball, though. I thought. I actually thought after the Ohio State game, I was like, this kid's going to be really good. And you watch the tapes, and it's like, man, you cannot hit the deep ball. You could never hit the deep ball all year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I waited all year on the Nico game.

[Mensch]

Come on, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, look, I think it's what the Arkansas game where their starter went out and you're still like, what. What is going on with you guys? Hold on.

[Todd McShay]

I want to do this. Keep going.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't have anything more. I mean, I. Look, I just. The Tennessee Thornton went to the. To the Raiders. That's why I was bringing it up, because some people like Squirrel, you know, and so I just was trying to figure out, like, how he fit in in comparison to. Again, at certain times in Tennessee, you're like, hey, look at all these playmakers. Look at who they have at running back. Maybe it was about Nico.

[Todd McShay]

I don't. I wonder if I have this game downloaded.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are we pulling up game clips? 145 in.

[Todd McShay]

I've never seen anything like it, man. Every single game, it's like he had to get it out of his system. Nico with the overthrow the deep ball.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It was like it was part of the game plan. I don't think I'm on the WI fi. I'm not gonna give out your cell phone number to get in the wife. It's fine. I've never seen anything like it. I think it was Mississippi State. Mississippi State's defense, not good. And he just overshot it by 25 yards out of the back of the end zone.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The. The Arkansas game, there was, like, an incredible ball that he hit. I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. Nico, too. This is my fault.

[Todd McShay]

It's absolutely your fault.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, right? And then I'm trying to remember, because he was. He was the other guy. He was Kitzelman, who.

[Todd McShay]

How much is mentioned. How much did Mensch's mafia just grow with that with just 30 seconds of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That was nice. That was really nice. That was a good, sweet, good fretting.

[Mensch]

You know how I didn't go.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not very good.

[Mensch]

I didn't go with anything known because then you just mess it up. They're like, yeah, I guess it sort of sounded like, yeah, you know, it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Does a good job with that song, the people that wrote it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And you're just like, that's harsh. Although I did sit through a slower second half of Fish last night. So that it was.

[Mensch]

Was it?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, you know, there's experimenting a little bit, but when somebody who's been with the band like 30 years turns to me, he's like, do you know this song?

[Todd McShay]

Do we have any other questions from, from folks? Because we're coming up towards the end and I want to make sure.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You want to finish strong.

[Todd McShay]

Well, yeah, I just want to make sure we. Like if you sit here for two hours, the nonsense is fun and it's exciting and it's, it's good to be around.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Feel like I'm getting scolded a bit.

[Todd McShay]

You're absolutely not. You're absolutely not. It's. It's carried. It. Can let me ask you this before we get, before we answer something, some questions or get to a poll. Can I confirm? Right. Can I confirm right now? I don't. I absolutely want you involved. Like, it's the core principle of it. But even if you can't because your NBA responsibilities. I've got to watch playoff games draft week.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. 22 hour weekend. It's fun.

[Todd McShay]

Can we lock this in? Should I choose? Should I decide to choose, we're never going to a draft again and freezing our asses off or, or sweating my, my onions off. If I choose that we're going to be in LA to do this for the foreseeable future. Can we lock in day three at Rossillo's house? Even if you have to be in and out like we're just invading your house.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I had so much fun doing this. I'm dreading the rest of the day. But I've told myself, well, maybe next.

[Todd McShay]

Year don't go to Fish the night before. Before.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with it. Maybe next year I'll tell Miami and Cleveland not to play a game three in the first round.

[Todd McShay]

So how hard, like first of all, was this? This hard?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, but.

[Todd McShay]

And how hard is it to watch NBA games tonight?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It. None of this is hard. It's about the time this now means That I have. Lakers, Minnesota. I have to watch. Second half. I have to watch.

[Todd McShay]

Have they started?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, that's last night. Tweezer reprise. 340 into the concert. Minnesota finishing that one out.

[Mensch]

What else?

[Ryan Rosillo]

What else in the draft. What else? What are the other headlines here? We get to finish draft strong. I know I have a tendency to derail things at hour two, and I don't want to do that to you or your audience.

[Todd McShay]

Giants. A lot of questions about the Giants. I mean, we got to get to nyg, right? Okay, Giants. The people are asking, and we're going to respond. Thank you for. Thank you, Marissa, for keeping us informed and what the. What the people want. And we. Yeah, I guess we haven't really gotten to. Well, we talked about Jackson Dart. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wow. Scatter Boo pro gimmick here.

[Todd McShay]

Honestly, he got a little bit of the Shador Sanders stuff. Like, it's just a. He can be a lot to. Not that dude. The broadcast brings with him a lot. Yeah, Scatterboo is a lot. Apparently, all you had to do was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Read between the lines of every broadcast.

[Todd McShay]

And it was like, hey, he did.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A really good job of, like, working with his teammates and his conditioning. It was like, so he was a fat dickhead last year. Like, that's.

[Todd McShay]

I love that you get to say the things that I. I don't think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, but that was. I'm not calling him that. The messaging on multiple broadcasts was, like, kind of a dick. Little chubby. And you're like, dude, take it easy.

[Todd McShay]

I'll be honest with you. I kind of went into watching his tape. Like, I watched all season long, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But I saved, like, six games to watch. After the season was over, I saw the interviews, the me, me, me, me, me, and loud and like, all that. And, like. And I'm watching him, I'm like, this is awesome. Like, what he's doing is awesome, but I don't know how it is going to work in the NFL. And then I put on the tape, and I'm like, it's gonna work. I love this tape.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No kidding. All right.

[Todd McShay]

He is so freaking powerful from the ground up, and he's lighter on his feet. And, yeah, he runs a little high. He's not going to last long. Like, you can't have that run style, run that high and last that long. But as a gm, like, if I get three, if I could get five, awesome. If I get three, he is different, man. He bounces off everything, and he's just. It's, like, weird because you look at the body type. And you look at all, like, the packaging doesn't match up, but he's light on his feet. I. I came away more impressed by Skataboo than I was watching the games, and I thought it was going to be the exact opposite experience.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was so much fun to watch. And considering what he was doing towards the end there, you know, the Iowa State game, like, he was.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, he kind of was just on his. It felt like he was almost on his own. Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Texas.

[Mensch]

Texas game.

[Todd McShay]

Texas.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Texas. The Texas game.

[Todd McShay]

Texas.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't know if you. Texas was. Was out. Like, out of this world. And then you get Tyrone. Tracy was a great find in the fifth round last year for the Giants. Right. And so. But Tracy's more. This guy's just. And. And we'll grind it out. Devin Singletary's there. It's just. It's a good complimentary piece. Catches the ball. Well, I. I like that pick. But my favorite pick of the. Actually, I'm wrong, by the way. Joe Shane. Joe Shane does an awesome job. Go ahead. I'll come back to it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you not understand what I'm talking about? When the announcers are kind of giving you the 100 between the lines thing?

[Todd McShay]

100.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And with scatterbill was constant. Like, every week when you start dialing into those games, it was like, did you guys just hand over the notes? Like, Gus Johnson will even have something? But then every now and then with Gus, you're just like, Trey Harris. This guy grew up and he had a dog, and the dog died. And Joel, they ate the dog. And that's why they've said since high school, he's got that dog in him.

[Todd McShay]

Third and seven Michigan men. Get back here. I need help. I need help.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What were you gonna say?

[Todd McShay]

Joe Shane's had a good draft. It's not nearly as interesting as what you're talking about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

You know what's funny?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I like Joe Shane. I like Joe Shane on Hard Knocks. I didn't like him the first couple minutes. I'll admit. Didn't really love him. Didn't really love him. And then as it kept progressing, I go, I'm a Joe Shane fan.

[Mensch]

I've heard your take on this.

[Todd McShay]

Why?

[Mensch]

The whole take of he should have resigned. Saquon Barkley is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thank you.

[Mensch]

Like, what are you gonna do?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, my best takes the last two years.

[Mensch]

You're gonna bring Barkley. Like, bring Barkley back on a bad team and spend way too much money on a running back, and it Would've.

[Todd McShay]

Been the wrong move. Why are you still over there, Mensch?

[Mensch]

I gotta keep an eye on my stuff, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Another kicker girl.

[Todd McShay]

I'll admit.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Hard Knocks Eberfluss. I was like, I don't know, dude. I was like, I don't. I think Hard Knocks can, like, tell you the truth the most.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, it bets. Yes, Hard Knocks bets.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Even Rex.

[Mensch]

Rex was like, this guy's kind of a goof, man. Like, he's. He's good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. But everybody that I know that's played for Rex loves.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, oh, loves him.

[Mensch]

When he was a position coach, he was known as, like, the best Willie.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Colon, solid heterosexual resume, but. But he loves Rex Ryan. Right?

[Todd McShay]

Joe Shane has nailed this thing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Good transition.

[Todd McShay]

Thank you. Darius Alexander belonged in the second. He got him in the third after obviously pulling off the. And people were like, why is it brilliant? I don't understand. They didn't. They gave up nothing. They gave up the 99th pair. It was a. It was a compensatory pick to move up to go get Jackson, Dart ahead of him. This is the part that everyone forgets. I know I said it earlier, but it's worth. There was a lot of talk. I think it was probable that the Rams were taking him at 26, so.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I love this room.

[Todd McShay]

So it's managing the draft. Let Brian pick his guy. He picked his guy. Now I got to manage this thing. We're taking the edge at three. And Brian, I will get you your guy. You know how hard that is to say when your head coach is an offensive genius and we have. We don't have the future quarterback in the answer. I'll get him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How many reps is he going to get though the bench press? No, it's not all about that.

[Todd McShay]

Dude, what you bench, bro.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm talking about in practice.

[Todd McShay]

That's the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I can't wait until those leaks when Jackson's getting first team reps and Russell Wilson still on the roster.

[Todd McShay]

Here's what I woke up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm pre looking forward to those.

[Todd McShay]

Here's what I woke up to this morning. It was pouring rain, and I rolled over in bed and I said, that son of a.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That was just too easy.

[Todd McShay]

Give it to me. And I saw rain and I said, that son of a. Got off easy. I know, but it's not raining. You're in those shorts that. Honest to goodness, like, well, you know, I would love to know what people think. They're going to be a thong soon. It's getting uncomfortable sitting.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would love to know what people Think shorts are supposed to look like when you're sitting down?

[Todd McShay]

At least you had a tan, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's my house.

[Todd McShay]

My fault here is not bad, right? I'm not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't want to. You're lucky I have a shirt on.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, that would. That was a requirement. You didn't answer my. So we're good next year and day three of the draft year.

[Mensch]

He likes to lock you in, huh? This would be the time.

[Todd McShay]

It's the nature of our relationship. This would be the time to get 20 plus years.

[Mensch]

Like, it's in your way, no problem.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, but, I mean, it is pretty crazy. Todd did give me my job at espn and I like to think I had some input.

[Todd McShay]

Right. We handed it back to each other on this relationship.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I still feel like you did me the bigger favor.

[Mensch]

Don't tell. Don't give him that.

[Todd McShay]

Don't give up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I mean, who's. I didn't have. I didn't have a job.

[Todd McShay]

You know, I didn't have one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I think you were more valuable when you were available than I was in 06.

[Todd McShay]

Whatever.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah, fine. Lock it in. But maybe we could do a tape delay.

[Todd McShay]

We can tape it in the morning.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, let's just tape it super early in the morning, and then Shador Sanders.

[Todd McShay]

Will fall to the fifth round and it looks like a really stupid show, so.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, we'll go live. We'll do it live, Bill O'Reilly style. Not a political statement.

[Todd McShay]

But the pavement is dry. We talking 40 for social later or. No? Have you been trying next year? Have you been running?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, no. But I did 225 yesterday for you, so I can give you a number.

[Todd McShay]

How many?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I got it 20 times and that was good. I'm not even training for anything except an advantage over other human beings.

[Todd McShay]

20 times.

[Mensch]

I don't know who's worse right now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He started this.

[Todd McShay]

Take the show wherever you want.

[Mensch]

My hamstring would not explode if I.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ran a 40 right? I don't even think. I don't think the 40 when you started throwing around that it couldn't break a six was when I was offended. I was trying to needle you.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I was trying to get you in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I know. I know what you were trying to do. I know what you're trying.

[Todd McShay]

What position would you call yourself if you were. You know what I mean?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think I'd be a heady safety. That probably wouldn't do great. One on one coverage down the field.

[Todd McShay]

All right, 2025 class.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let's go to bench press reps. 24 is my best.

[Todd McShay]

24 is your best.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But you know, I mean, bud, I got 20 yesterday. Just seeing how, how it felt.

[Todd McShay]

The, the, the best was. Was Luke Kandra, guard from Cincinnati at 33 reps this year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did I get more than Jack Sawyer?

[Todd McShay]

Oh, no, wait.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's important to me. Can we look that up?

[Mensch]

Captain Jack, Is he doing it?

[Todd McShay]

I don't think he did it, did he? Mike Green had 28. I'm trying to find someone who had. You had more than Savion Jones.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I knew that.

[Todd McShay]

And Tyler Barron. And you had the same amount as Femi Oladejo, who was a third round pick.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let's go see what Jack Sawyer did.

[Todd McShay]

He didn't do it at the combine.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, if you didn't do it, I don't know. I don't believe 21. So I'm almost like Jack Sawyer. This close. Okay, that's fine.

[Todd McShay]

So next year you'll do the 40. Where's my. Where's my. I brought the stopwatch too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you really?

[Todd McShay]

I swear to you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I'm not doing that ever. Not right now. Definitely not right now.

[Todd McShay]

What if I bring my stopwatch back next year?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Fine, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll likely get hurt probably before it, so I'll have an excuse.

[Todd McShay]

So, Joe Shane.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yes. Great draft.

[Todd McShay]

Darius Alexander, defensive tackle in the third round. Should have gone the second. Cam Scatterboo in the fourth round. I had a third round grade. Marcus Bow. Marcus Bow. I want to show you this. There must have been some, some injury that I wasn't aware of. The Purdue offensive tackle, probably kicking the guard. He's one of those guys in life.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What happened to him? Moved him inside the guard.

[Todd McShay]

Moved him inside the guard. I had him at 63 overall in this class.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are you serious?

[Todd McShay]

Fifth round. I'm saying Joe Shane's having a. He's on a heater.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You love though, when somebody's drafting to your board though, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What's the worst year you've ever had? We're like, wow, I don't. Mensch. Do you remember Todd's mensch?

[Todd McShay]

Wouldn't remember more than me.

[Mensch]

It's so annoying.

[Todd McShay]

You know, I got 10.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's really good. It's really annoying. I. I would defend you even if I didn't like you, but you were really good at this. I wouldn't have you on be like, you know, we get along really well socially, but God, that guy sucks at film breakdown. But let's have him on again every week. No, I think you're great at it, man.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks, boys.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, how do we finish strong here?

[Todd McShay]

What do we need, three minutes? We got three minutes left. Are there any questions from the. From the folks? I mean, they've gotten a lot here. Way more than I expected. The entertainment level has been. Has been awesome. I'm looking here. There's got to be one more thing we can get to. What are you doing tonight? Watching games. Yeah, Dinner tonight. Late Sleigh somewhere.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, we go to sleigh.

[Todd McShay]

Is that your favorite place?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's my favorite place because it's, it's, you know, David Slay owns it. He owns a bunch of restaurants. He's a St. Louis guy. He's got a vineyard. So every now and then. I'm big on Vermentino right now. You know, I don't. Don't tell everybody because I don't want the prices to get out of control. But yeah, it's just a great spot when people are in town and he takes care of everybody. Not saying it's free, but you know, you can get a table. But I don't know, man. I mean, we're already. I'm already three basketball games behind us too. 2:00. So. So you're ready to go if you go out late. Late for dinner maybe, but.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I give myself a fourth round grade of making dinner tonight.

[Todd McShay]

I got it. How surprised were you by Shador to the fifth?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I, I don't know that there's ever been an example of the mock drafts messing with us this much on any single player. I. There's nothing that I can compare this to. And what, 20 years of paying attention up to 20 plus years, like is there. Do we need to go back overall again for somebody to be that like the projection. Be that off of where they're potentially going to go. And I know we can talk about the valuation, all this different stuff. I'm not saying I loved all of it and I can even understand a lot of the arguments about it. I think they completely miscalculated the entire thing. Like you don't get to be that dude pre draft experience when this is what they think of your talent, but still, Milro ahead of him, Gabriel ahead of him. Yeah, he. I think he paid like an extra three rounds of pricing on whatever the league thought of him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's. It's a relationship world, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And, and they clearly had none or they only had strange.

[Todd McShay]

It's also, it's also just every interaction handled with the same amount, you know? Anyway, favorite pick of the entire draft.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wow.

[Mensch]

No kidding.

[Todd McShay]

I loved how Tyler Schuck to the Saints. We didn't even get into the Derek Carr situation. He may have an opportunity. My man. I texted you out of the blue because your voicemail's fucked up and you don't never pick up. So I had to text you and I texted you that were Xavier Watts, Atlanta, that I needed help.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where they got him.

[Mensch]

Not bad.

[Todd McShay]

I needed help. Can't tell you. Never going to be able to ask me and we're probably going to have to hurt someone. And you basically said, whose car are we taking?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I appreciate you, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thanks. Great to see men, dude.

[Mensch]

Great seeing you too, man.

[Todd McShay]

Awesome, brother. This. This wraps up our first draft ever.

[Mensch]

This our first cycle.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yes. I've had an awesome time. I hope everyone appreciated it. We're back tomorrow Sunday. I got to be totally honest. I'm looking out and it's like blue skies and ocean and I'm gonna be tough. I'm pumped to go back in the studio and do like two, three hours of breaking down all 32 team deep dives. But we're here for it and we'll do it. Thanks for hanging. I hope you guys had as much fun as we did. And we'll see you tomorrow. Later. Must be 21 + and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.