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The McShay Show
McShay Show Offseason Mailbag! The 2026 Quarterback Class, Our Scouting Process, and More.
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- [00:02]
Todd McShay
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Steve Levy
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Todd McShay
All of these and more now streaming.
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Steve Levy
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Todd McShay
Subscription terms apply.
- [00:18]
Steve Levy
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- [01:07]
Todd McShay
You've got questions, We've got answers. Today's a fun one. Stevie Boy, mailbag day, college football, NFL draft, and details of the scouting process. We're covering it all. Just 283 days until the NFL draft. Men, you good?
- [01:23]
Steve Levy
I'm good, man.
- [01:24]
Todd McShay
What's DJ Tuck got queued up for the kids today? This is where it pays to be a premium subscriber, Mitch. If you're a premium subscriber to the McShay report, you got to get your questions in. We're answering them today. This is fun. I like to do this. It's the middle of the summer. Like, sometimes our audience needs to be our producers. That's what you guys are doing for us today.
- [02:05]
Steve Levy
Truly.
- [02:05]
Todd McShay
Like, we've covered wide receivers. We've covered like eight different quarterbacks, the Manning passing academy, Clemson's prospects, all that stuff. We've kind of come up with the content. I've traveled down to New Orleans mentions, watch a ton of tape. We, like, we've got it all leading up to the spot, but, like, sometimes we just got to take a step back, let our audience drive the train. And today that's what we're doing. So McShay report premium subscribers. And if you have not subscribed yet, please do so. Just google the McShay report.
- [02:33]
Steve Levy
Let's go.
- [02:34]
Todd McShay
Like, I don't even think we've got 11,000 subscribers yet. Like, what are we doing. We're building this thing. We need help. We need support. You guys have been awesome with us. Please continue to subscribe on YouTube, hit the likes, do all the things you know you need to do on Apple, obviously on Spotify and everywhere else you get your podcasts. But another way you can support what we're trying to build here, what we want to be the smartest NFL draft community or whatever, I'm going to come up with a better. I hate community, but a better group, a better crew. We want the, we just want like a smarter, smarter messaging out there. If you want to be a part of this, please subscribe. The subscribers sent in questions. We're answering them today. Also important to note before we get started, if you are a subscriber, premium subscriber, I'm doing a whole separate mailbag. Dan's. I mean, maybe Dan didn't get the memo. It's July. It's the summer. I want you to look at all these pages. Like, look at all this. I've got, like, who lord knows how many pages worth of questions, but I'm going to answer them because that's what we do. We want, we want your support. Then we better step up and that's what we're going to do. So that's the deal, men, why don't you get us kicked off? We're going to get to as many questions as we can today. Try to keep it under an hour, but let's have some fun with it. So go ahead. What's the first question for me?
- [03:51]
Steve Levy
We got some great ones, man. Here's the first one. Hey, Todd, Love the content. My question is, out of all the QBs in the 2026 class, excluding Arch Manning, who do you think has the highest ceiling and the lowest floor? Thanks. That's from Kyle.
- [04:06]
Todd McShay
All right, Kyle, we appreciate you start. Yeah, it's a tricky one. Ceiling's a tough one because, like I think Kate Klubnick might be the best quarterback in this class excluding Arch Manning. And we don't know about like, he's just not included yet simply because we, we don't have a cat enough of a catalog on him from a. But like when I think ceiling, the highest ceiling, I think like if, if they develop perfectly and they become everything that physically and mentally they can become over time, I'm going to say Lenora Sellers, S.C. quarterback. I just think like, you can't coach what he has. Most importantly, the athletic traits, the speed, the agility, the ability to extend plays. And then he's got the Big arm to go with it now, refinement and more consistency. We. We did the whole, you know, the whole story on, on Lenoris and if you haven't, by the way, all these quarterbacks and a lot of the other stuff that we've covered, the Clemson defense, the Manning passing academy, it's. It's on the McShay page or the McShay show page for YouTube, same for Spotify, same for Apple, same for everywhere. You get your podcast, we go back and just listen. Everyone's been busy. It's the summer. I get it. But we're getting closer now, and so go back and listen. Listen or watch to some of the past shows and you'll get a much more detailed breakdown on Lenora Sellers. Good luck finding a more detailed breakdown of Lenora Sellers. I don't know that Lenora Sellers parents know about as much about Lenora Sellers as we do. And we provided. Obviously they do.
- [05:50]
Steve Levy
So do you think it's the same answer? Do you think he has the lowest floor, too?
- [05:54]
Todd McShay
No, I think. I think Drew Aller has the lowest floor.
- [05:58]
Steve Levy
We agree.
- [05:59]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Because for Sellers, you could say that.
- [06:01]
Steve Levy
He is not as developed as Aller, and I get that. But Sellers always has that strength and mobility to lean on, so the floor is a little higher for him because of the mobility. Whereas Aller is a big boy, too. But he doesn't move like that. So if he doesn't, if he's not good in the pocket, if he's not, you know, doesn't have a great year, then he's got the lower floor, in my opinion.
- [06:22]
Todd McShay
I totally agree. And there's two things I told you when we went through the Drew Aller breakdown again. You can go back and watch the whole show. It's like an hour long. His inability to accurately throw to receivers that are running away from him, to visualize it to lead receivers open is concerning. Okay. Then you add the fact the lack of mobility in today's day and age. He doesn't have, like, this is 1995. He's the number one prospect. Right. He doesn't have the mobility and the ability as a result, to get himself out of as much trouble. Especially when you're young and you don't have all the answers to the test at the line of scrimmage and post snap. So I worry about that with Aller, you combine those two things. That's a scary combination. I also want to know why the hell isn't he down in. In Thibodeau, Louisiana? Because I've heard reasons why that I will not share because I only share things that I confirm and know for facts but like why it's been a few years, different opportunities. It's not the coaching staff. So there's just some stuff that that's concerning there. So it's interesting. Let me. Let's also get. I mean we're doing this for the subscribers. These are my rankings as of right now for the quarterbacks. I'm going rogue and I got a bonus question from Michael. Then we'll, I'll let you get us back on track on, on the tracks with the question too.
- [07:53]
Steve Levy
But this is already off the rails.
- [07:55]
Todd McShay
Already off the rails or eight minutes in seven minutes in Cade club Nick one. Garrett Nussmeier too. I'm like a dog, like dog with a bone on. Nussmeier.
- [08:04]
Steve Levy
Yeah man.
- [08:05]
Todd McShay
Sellers 3 Fernando Mendoza 4 and by the way, we both want to see Sellers. Unless something drastically changes this year and depending on circumstances, I think Sellers is best suited to play 2025 and 2026 in college football and come out for that 2027 draft. Whether Arch Manning is in that class or not, we want to see his development and I think the best thing for him would be two years. So it's club Nick Nussmeier, Sellers, Fernando Mendoza, the Cal transfer to iu. Sam Levitt, Arizona State, then Drew Aller. I know that surprises a lot of people because everyone's got a lot of people. When I did my reading, when doing that stupid way too early mock draft, a lot of people had him as QB1 or QB2. John Matier, Oklahoma Transfer 2 from Washington State this year. Love that Cat looks like a fullback. I love it. Then kind of the next tier and we'll get to some of these guys maybe in a little bit. Sawyer Robertson, Baylor, Avery Johnson, Kansas State, Miller Moss, Louisville, now transfer from USC and Carson Beckman, Georgia transferred to Miami and obviously Arch Manning is not on that list for all the reasons we've talked about. So that's a little bonus nugget for everyone. And men doesn't have to agree or disagree. We'll just move on. Bonus question. We'll call it 1A from Michael and this will appear in the newsletter. It's a little taste of what you can get in the newsletter for the McShay Report tomorrow. Okay. And I will answer in more detail there. Who could this who could this year's Cam Ward be? I love this question. Someone who someone who is projected day two, day three at this same point who winds up going round one I'm gonna jump off with this. I'm not saying he's going round one and obviously we didn't. I wouldn't have said Cam Ward necessarily last year. You know, Sawyer Robertson has my attention and the reason why I love doing this is Michael forced me to go and watch tape. I finish up a wide receiver I haven't done this morning and I was like, I gotta do it. So I went and watched Sawyer Robertson's tape. He was the most pleasant surprise of all the quarterbacks I told you from the Manning Passing Academy. Transferred to Baylor after three seasons at Mississippi State, one as a starter, plus four games in. Excuse me, in 2023. I told you he won the first round the competition at Friday night, the Manning Passing Academy. Just like deadly accurate, on the move, all the stuff. Father Stan, first round draft pick. Remember if you go back to our. Our. The show we did on the passing academy, his father stands a first round draft pick of the Expos 1990 Major League Baseball draft. Also cousin of Jarrett Stidham. So that's kind of the backdrop. So I watched his tape. He throws really well on the move right and left. I'm not going. He's not a running threat, but he's a lot more mobile than I thought. Even watching him at the passing academy. Okay, really good job sliding boots out. His Baylor protection wasn't very good. Let's call it what it is. So he's on the move a lot. Forced to be, but knows when to climb, knows when to. To. To roll out right and left. Throws really well, like almost more accurately and better on the left to the left side than he does the right.
- [11:48]
Steve Levy
I would.
- [11:48]
Todd McShay
His arm's not elite, but it's a plus arm. I would say his mobility is plus. He's got like this suddenness to him. Very comfortable running when he's supposed to, when it's necessary. Buys time. He's not overly shifty and elusive, not overly fast. But he's a. He's a pretty athletic kid for 6, 4, 220 pounds. But he's just highly accurate throwing the football. The ball's on a string. The intermediate stuff just puts it where it needs to go. Throws the spots between zones, all that stuff. Leads receivers open. The one knock is down the field. When he misses, he's got a tendency to miss high. The further down the field, the less accurate he becomes and the balls start to sail a little bit. So I'll be looking for that this year. But Sawyer Robertson, in a class where I just mentioned names like Club, Nick Nussmire, Sellers, Mendoza, Levitt, Aller, Matier, Arch Manning. We'll see where he comes out. Avery Johnson, Miller Moss, Carson Beck. I haven't heard anything about this guy. And he caught my eye down in Thibodeau, Louisiana. I just watched a good. Not all of the tape, but I think four games and I like them. I. So when. When Michael asked me who could be a guy that climbs, I'm not saying round one, but he's a guy that's like, not really on the radar that I think as we get closer, he's. He's a name that's going to be in the mix a little bit like it.
- [13:21]
Steve Levy
I'm gonna get you, try to get you back on track here.
- [13:23]
Todd McShay
Okay, thanks.
- [13:25]
Steve Levy
Hey, Todd, Love the content and the summer scouting series. You have talked and written a lot about the quarterback position, but there has been no mention of Carson Beck. So just now, is he not viewed as a viable NFL quarterback? I see a lot of this on our socials, too. This is a big question that people have about Carson Beck. I'm as interested as anyone else to hear what you have to say right now.
- [13:52]
Todd McShay
I appreciate it, Kevin, because I've been kind of trying to avoid the subject. He's big. He's had some really good moments. The beauty of what we do on the McShay show, the Saturday Night Live shows, we kind of were like, it's kind of like a running journal, if you will, of like where we are in the process. Like, we watched the nussmeyer, the ups, the downs, that he's not ready. Jaylen Milro, Carson Beck, he's got a good arm. There's some throws like the in breaking stuff. He does a nice job with. He's really good off of play action. He has moments. Okay. I go back to what we said constantly last season. He just makes his receivers work for it. Okay? That's one thing when I watch other quarterbacks, when they're throwing the ball at Cam Ward last year, the same class Jackson Dart, he's. He's. They're spotting the ball. Receivers are running to Shador Sanders, like making things easy on receivers. They're laboring. They were laboring down in Athens, okay? Inconsistent with decisions. I thought there was games or even parts of games really smart, made good decisions. Other parts where it was like, what are we doing? We played too much ball for this. Do you trust the guy? And I'm not talking about the quarterback. I'm talking, do you trust the guy? I'm not telling you I'm asking you, do you trust the guy? And I'm not asking you, Steve. I'm asking audience people what they read. People. Do you trust what your eyes and your ears are and your common sense are telling you? Why is UGA kind of we're good.
- [15:55]
Steve Levy
Gunner Stockton that good?
- [15:58]
Todd McShay
Why is Georgia like, we're good with him? Moving on. I just saw Gunner Stockton down at Manning Passing Academy and I saw him last year at the end of the year. He does some really good things. He's athletic, he's committed, competitive. He's a grinder. He fits exactly what the program wants. He. He ain't that good. He's not a world beater. He's not Arch Manning. This is not Arch coming back and he's ready to go. And Quinn, it's time to move on. Where? The NFL or your grad transfer? This is not that deal. Gunner's good. He's not that good. Miami's got money. Ain't got that much money. You're telling me in Georgia's budget, if this guy was that good and more importantly, if they trusted him and they love the guy and they loved elevate the team and it was about the team and about the guys in his huddle, the guys in the locker room. If it was about the right things, you're telling me the dogs wouldn't have come up with the money and made sure that this was the number one priority. Okay, so I'm asking you as our audience, if you're asking me the question, I'm going to throw a little bit back on your plate and I'm going to ask you what. What do your senses tell you? Okay. I also. I'm not going to share details or certain things and I share almost everything. And I'm probably too transparent with a lot of stuff, but I know why he's not. He wasn't at the Manning Passing Academy. I don't know definitively, but I get a good idea why Drew Aller wasn't. And people who make decisions are the ones telling me why. Not some vendetta. They want to know the whys. They know why Fernando Mendoza wasn't there. Coach decided first year with the program. We need him here. Frustrating, but understandable. Mendoza was here the year before. Awesome guy, Grinder, great with the campers, does all the right things, wanted to be back, made the right calls, personally respectful. Okay, so go. Go find out why. Why is he not there? Why is Georgia letting him go? Those are my answers.
- [18:11]
Steve Levy
Yeah, I thought you're being. I was Gonna call you out for being too cryptic at first, but I think you covered that well. Yeah, you know, you're saying it without having to really come out and say it the next one. This is a good one because I think there's, we, there are times where we say things that I think people understand that we go through too fast and then we need to stop and clarify. So Ron asks, I think a good clarification question. He says, what positions would you classify as premium positions as of today? And does that change over time because of how offenses utilize players, which then correspondingly has an impact on premium defensive positions? Ron Smart. Purely how teams assess value. Running backs still seem to be used quite a bit, but it seems like teams treat them more and more as commodities that can be easily replaced or some other factors. Can we look at the last few drafts to see first and second round position selections? And that may begin to suggest the emergence of reduction of positions of value that you currently don't classify as premium positions. Thanks as always for your insight.
- [19:11]
Todd McShay
Let's work backwards on this a little bit, okay. Because it's, I mean this is a, it's a super great question and we could actually do like close to a show on it. But I'll try to be concise, I think. And, and Ron, I want to make it perfectly clear like you're, you're going down the right road with this. I've always said. And I'll continue to share, like talent trumps trends. Okay. And trends being positions, you know, positions of value. If there's an elite first round, like can't. Like if there's, if there's an Ashton Jintis going in the first round. If there's an Omarion Hampton, he's going in the first round. Okay. But there, but there's some other guys that was really damn good. And we thought maybe Trayvon Henderson could go. We thought maybe, you know, Judkins could, could sneak in. We thought, you know what I mean? So like, so the market tells you the value. Just like that 2017 class with Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffrey. We told you there were 30 running backs taken in that class.
- [20:15]
Steve Levy
And.
- [20:15]
Todd McShay
But it was really backloaded. And we warned you as we got closer to the draft because we spent months and I almost wanted to like, pump the brakes a little. This class is awesome. And it turned out to be awesome. It was four shy of that, that number 30 running backs, which is like, I don't know if it's a modern day record, but it's like in the last couple decades there were 26 running backs taken. But guess what? 20 of them were on day three. And let me read some names to you. Only six went in the first three rounds. Not first two, first three rounds. Let me read some names to you. Okay. Caleb Johnson was third. Sorry. Bishul Tutin who like had a combine workout. That was Cam Scatterbo who carried Arizona State and we talked about how great his tape was. Dylan Sampson, the Tennessee offense ran through him. Jordan James, we both were in love with out of Oregon. Jaden Blue, even your boy, the Kansas State guy.
- [21:19]
Steve Levy
Devin Neal.
- [21:21]
Todd McShay
No Devin. Neil's Kansas and Kansas.
- [21:24]
Steve Levy
Dj Gideon.
- [21:25]
Todd McShay
Gideon. They all went on day three. Okay, so, so that's like that kind of addresses running back. If they're elite, elite, elite, they're going to go. But there's this like hold pattern going on in draft rooms right now. Let's talk premium picks at all position. My, this is my opinion. You can chime in when, when I finish this rant quickly. Quarterback is number one, pass rusher is number two. Then I think it kind of depends on the kind of what, what you're trying to do, what your systems are, all that. But the next three in my opinion. And you can rank them in any order you want. Pass protector, pass catcher, cover corner. Cover corner is. Doesn't go as high in the first round, all this stuff. But there. So the premium positions, mere quarterback, pass rusher, pass protector, and I'm talking perimeter, blind side protector, basically receivers and then cover corners. Let's. Last year was highly unusual. Okay. And we said it leading up. It was just a different draft. It was. We had a couple of special tight ends, we had a couple special running backs. So that threw it off, the percentages off a little bit. But it also was a. This isn't a great draft at the top. Let's hit some doubles, let's get on base. Let's not swing for the fences because there's, there's, there was a lot of character stuff. There was some durability stuff. There weren't elite, elite players that were worth taking risks on. So you saw three guards come off the board. You saw two linebackers come off the board. You did have elite tight ends and running backs. So you saw four, those two positions. So it turned out there were. There were nine, nine players in the first round that went. Which was highly unusual. Running back, tight end, guard, center linebacker, safety. Okay. Those are the non premium positions. In my opinion. 2024 was a lot more of a normal sample size. Okay. In 2024. There were just three tight ends, running back, center guard, linebacker, safeties that went off the board in the first round. 29 were quarterback, left tackle, wide receiver, defensive line, pass rushers, and cornerbacks. That's 9%, 89%. So 91% were the premium positions. Now in the first two rounds last year or 20, 24, I should say that's 64 picks, just 17%. But then you get to round three where it's like, okay, now we'll take our running back. Now we'll take our tight end. Now we'll take our linebacker. Now we'll take our safety. You ready for this? 37 picks were in round three in 2024. 20 of them were running back, tight end, center guard, linebacker, safer. Only 17. So it flips when you get to the middle rounds. Now we go get those non premium positions and we've already taken a good deal of the premium guys and we can come back to them later. 54. So he went from 9% in the first round, 17 in the second round to 54. 4% majority were non premium positions.
- [24:45]
Steve Levy
Yeah, it makes sense.
- [24:48]
Todd McShay
I will.
- [24:49]
Steve Levy
I do want to say two things. One is that I think pass blocker is right on par with that edge rusher. And I get it. I get the argument for putting edge rusher as number two. But I think those are the, those are really the three. I think you really, you need to score more points than another team in this league. You need guys who can pass block. And I think it's getting tougher and tougher to find those great offensive tackles.
- [25:11]
Todd McShay
That's where they always get driven up the board. Because they're so hard. Of course. Yeah.
- [25:16]
Steve Levy
So I agree with you on the top three that they would be passable. It would be obviously quarterback, defensive end, pass blocker. I think you can argue about that a little bit in terms of the order. I do think that when you're looking at the evolution of positions and players and all that, I think corner is starting to become more important because it's harder to find corners than it is safeties. I think more kids want to play wide receiver now.
- [25:37]
Todd McShay
I think.
- [25:37]
Steve Levy
I think it's harder to find that. The other thing that's interesting to me is, and I think Ron kind of gets to this about the evolution of the game, and I think we anticipate market shifts a little bit. And then the anticipation of two positions, to me specifically is interesting of whether or not they're going to be valued more going forward. And one is being that nickel defensive back that nickel safety specifically I think the guy that plays inside, because no one plays, everyone plays with five defensive backs now that's just the nickel is basically the baseball. So that guy, that nickel safety. The reason I think the value hasn't gone up because teams have had success finding players outside the first round in the second round. They don't need to go find those players early on, they can find them later on. The other position is tight end. And I mean the versatile tight ends, the Colson Lovelands of the world who can make you multiple on offense when you want to go tempo. A guy who can line up in the slot, can line up wide, can line up in line, is competitive enough, all of those things. I think that position has become more important on the field. The problem with that is there's been a flood of tight end talent. So they don't really need to. The, the league hasn't decided that it needs to change the way addresses the position and get those players earlier. It's a little confusing but that's why the premium positions still are the way they are. Quarterbacks are hard to find, man. Offensive tackles are hard to find. Edge rushers are hard to find. They are just tough to find. You got to get them early and take your shots early. Whereas I think that some of these other positions are becoming more important when you show up on Sundays and you play. But. And just like running backs are super important when you get into the game. But if you can find talented running backs outside the first round, if you can find talented tight ends, if you can find talented nickel guys, you're not going to go and reach and, and try to get them earlier. And that's why, that's why the board set the way it is.
- [27:23]
Todd McShay
All right, let's get a couple for the big fella. For men, Andrew writes as an offensive line guy, how is the Michigan offensive line able to dominate over a three year span from 2021 to 2023 without having premium talent across the board? Sans Zach Zinter who was even injured during the Rose bowl and national championship wins in their respective drafts, only Zinter went in the top 100. He was pick 85 and most were day three selections. It's actually a great question. 2021 starters were Ryan Hayes, Keegan Vistartis, Zinter, Stuber. Then it was Hayes, Keegan, Oluwatami, Oluwatimi, Zinter and Barnhart. Then in 2023 it was Ladarious, Henderson, Keegan, Drake, Nugent, Zinter and Barnhart. Then Barnhart, Trent Jones. So like thanks for everything, guys. Andrew, go ahead, sort it out. Men.
- [28:18]
Steve Levy
I think it's, it's a great question and I mean you want to look at some of these stats here. One, the national championship in 23. You got to look at two. First ever team to win back to back Joe Moore awards, which is awarded to the best college offensive line. These guys were, I mean you look at the statistics. They were first in rushing, rushing yards per game in the Big Ten for two years in a row. 20, 22, 4th and 23. Then you look at 21 fewest sacks allowed. The next year, 22 third fewest sacks allowed. This is all Big Ten numbers. The next year after that, third few sex allowed. Statistically, this all adds up and they were a championship team. And look, I love those offensive lines as in a former offensive lineman. Those guys were tough, they played together, they were smart. But there is one downfall and I think that again you're going to look at the. I will say this before I talk about the one fatal flaw I think for them not producing early round guys. You also remember their offensive line coach is now their head coach, Sharon Moore, outstanding offensive line coach. I think that has to be said. You also had a running back in Blake Corum who was an outstanding college running back who you could hand the ball 20 times. I know he had some injury issues, but when he played, I mean, I remember pictures of him after the game's bloody face. I mean he would run through a brick wall for those guys. He got them everything that they gave them. That offensive line must have loved blocking for him because he got everything that they gave him, plus a little more every single time. And you had a Damn good quarterback, JJ McCarthy. So it was a good supporting cast of that offensive line as well. You got to look at that, that a little bit too. But the fatal flaw for them was they are not great pass blockers. And I remember writing up all Those guys in 23, I think I wrote up six offensive linemen. Michigan, I wrote six reports and all of them projected as guards because there was a concern with all of them about their ability to pass block on the outside. They did not have as good as those lines were as a unit and they were awesome.
- [30:08]
Todd McShay
Awesome.
- [30:09]
Steve Levy
They did not have a Taylor lan. They did not have a Jake Long. There was not that elite Michigan offensive lineman that you think about in the past. They just didn't have that guy. So as a unit, and I love this about offensive line play. Outstanding, outstanding. You know, the collection's better than the individual. I. I can't say it enough about those groups. They just didn't have those elite offensive line prospects that could pass block. Really. And you look at that Penn state game in 23 where JJ McCarthy had eight. He went seven for eight in the first half and he threw one time in the second half and it was a pass interference call. So end of the game, 7 for 8. The reason they didn't run the ball wasn't because of J. I mean, they didn't pass the ball wasn't because of JJ McCarthy. It was because they couldn't pass block that, that Penn State defensive line. And that's an issue. The name of the game, you can do that. That's their identity in Michigan. Pound the rock, play great defense and it works. When you get to the NFL, you're gonna face guys you got a pass block one on one, and they didn't. They don't really have players like that on those units.
- [31:09]
Todd McShay
Andrew, are you not entertained? Holy.
- [31:15]
Steve Levy
I mean, I love those office.
- [31:17]
Todd McShay
Longest offensive line breakdown I've ever heard in my life. Meanwhile, all I can think about is if you hear young kids screaming in the background, college football is coming in. Ea EA Sports. College football just dropped when we're taping it today. And they're maniacs. PlayStation and Xbox. We had to get it for. Don't even ask me why.
- [31:42]
Steve Levy
You know that one friend who somehow.
- [31:44]
Todd McShay
Knows everything about money?
- [31:46]
Steve Levy
Yeah.
- [31:46]
Todd McShay
Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend. It's the app that helps you check.
- [31:53]
Steve Levy
Your FICO score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius.
- [31:58]
Todd McShay
And guess what? It's totally free.
- [32:01]
Steve Levy
So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this is a total game changer. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [32:37]
Todd McShay
All right, next one for you men. Let's keep it under 40 minutes from Robert.
- [32:41]
Steve Levy
Sorry.
- [32:42]
Todd McShay
Thoughts on the two Utah offensive lineman. Rich. Coming from me, by the way. Thoughts on the two Utah offensive linemen, Fanu and Lomu showing up in some mocks. Also. Love you guys. No podcast. I'd rather develop a parasocial relationship.
- [33:00]
Steve Levy
Do you know what that means? I don't even know what that means.
- [33:02]
Todd McShay
No, but I Love it. Keep him coming. I'll. I'll parasocial with you all day, Robert.
- [33:07]
Steve Levy
What do you got?
- [33:08]
Todd McShay
Men. Really?
- [33:09]
Steve Levy
You're gonna throw this at me earlier? I'm gonna go in with Lomu first. He's a red shirt sophomore, first year, starting last year. Very encouraging, very exciting off. He plays left tackle. He plays left tackle for Utah. He is a, he's six foot six. He's a taller guy, I think. Well, I'm gonna start with the flaws first. Some of the things that I want to see him improve on. He's a taller guy. The pads rise a little bit. He can get. He battles to a stalemate a little too much in the run game. He can falls off blocks. I think he's got to do a little bit better job of keeping his pads down. But this guy can move, man. He is, he, he's going to be great in his own scheme. He's a great positional blocker already. I watched him in pass pro and I'm like, damn, he is. If he was to come out, I really believe this. If he was to come out and if he has the same kind of year as he had last year and he came out, I think he would be a second round pick and depending on how he tested and interviewed, he'd be in the mix. So that's how much I like Lomu. But God damn with Fano, I mean I can't. There are. From a technical standpoint, when you watch him, you gotta clean up that footwork, man. You got to clean up some of the, the footwork things that you're doing. But what it gives you an opportunity to see is how freaking explosive and athletic he is.
- [34:27]
Todd McShay
You texted me one clip and I was like.
- [34:30]
Steve Levy
And wasn't. He wasn't even doing anything. He just, he just set outside and redirected inside. He is six foot six. He's £300. I'll start in the run game. I think he's an elite run blocker despite all his limitations. He is explosive off the ball, knockback power. He's going to drive guys. He can reach linebackers. He can fit in a zone run heavy zone heavy run scheme. He's got all of those tools and yes, he play. His base narrows and he can fall off blocks. But he's so aggressive. He stays connected and he, he gets away with some of the, of the flaws and then the technique because of how aggressive he is, how athletic he is, how talented he is and how quick he is. It's incredible to watch and it's the same thing at pass, bro. Man, there are times when he gets beat. You're like, oh, well, that's, you know, like, that's a problem. And then the way he recovers, the way he gets back is outstanding. I mean, it is outstanding. I have no other word for it. And so to me, I'm looking at a player that can already has the athletic ability and the natural ability to overcome all these flaws. And then maybe you get him in there and you refine to get all this polish. I mean, he is scratching the surface as how good he is. The one thing I will say, I wonder about the length a little bit and I know no one wants to hear about length, about offensive tackles right now. And we'll, we'll go, we'll do it farther down the road.
- [35:48]
Todd McShay
Literally nobody in the middle of the go.
- [35:53]
Steve Levy
But I will say this to be.
- [35:54]
Todd McShay
Breaking down the length of a Utah.
- [35:55]
Steve Levy
Offensive tackle when, when Robert's asking me thoughts on him showing up in mocks. Damn right he is. Damn right he is. And I think when you do your appropriately early mock, I'm going to be pounding the table for this guy to go early.
- [36:09]
Todd McShay
Noted. What do we got next?
- [36:11]
Steve Levy
Up next, we got a question from Eric. When I'm going through my own evaluations on players, I think it's a good one too, especially quarterback. How important is it to go back to the year before and see where the prospect was compared to the now of where they are?
- [36:27]
Todd McShay
I always do it. It tells a story and it's the reason why we're doing it this summer. I now know the baseline for club Nick and Nussmeier and Sellers, especially a guy like that, I want to see is there. I know it for Aller. I know the areas they need to improve. I want to see, like, not only are we improving upon it, but, like, are they putting in the work to do it? Like part of this whole thing, man, it's like anything in life, any job you do, any relationship you have, none of us was born perfect. And so like, not to get too weird about it, but, like, I want to know what I'm getting. I want to know that. I want to know that DeAndre Moore, who will get to next week at wide receiver for Texas, saw that he had 11 point, whatever drop percentage and was battling the football and his body catching. I want to know. Okay, he's, he's on. He, he's, he's like. It's been very clear to him. I'd be shocked if it's not a point. Of emphasis for Coach Sark and that staff. And I'm not to single him out here, but I'm just saying everyone has their. Their weaknesses in areas they can improve. He comes out and he's attacking the ball with his hands and he's plucking and he's. And he's aggressive and more confident. I'm like, not only do I see that trade on the field, I know this is the same cat that was running 40 yards down the field blocking. And so now I start to see a whole picture of who he is, what's my investment and every position. So I think it's really important. We've done it for 25 years here. Go ahead.
- [38:13]
Steve Levy
The other aspect of this, and this happens a fair amount, guys have bad years and, And God forbid something like this happens. Maybe there's something off the field, it's a distraction. Maybe a family member is sick.
- [38:23]
Todd McShay
Injury reports aren't. Maybe college is the NFL, all of it.
- [38:27]
Steve Levy
Maybe they're battling an injury. Maybe there's something going on within the program where they're not getting along with a new coach or the scheme doesn't fit them. I think it's always good. And I remember our good friend Joe Douglas told me this once. He, you know, former GM for the, for the Jets. Hugh told us, you know, some. You guys can have a bad year. What did they do the year before? Don't give up on those guys. I think Malachi Starks is a sort of an example of this. The Georgia safety who went to Baltimore in the first round, I didn't think he had as great a year last year, two years ago, he was awesome.
- [38:57]
Todd McShay
Derek.
- [39:00]
Steve Levy
Derek Stingley's a much better example. Derek Stingley at LSU is a much better example because he had that bad last year. And you could look at these players, but what was going on. So there's not only the. The arc, and you're hoping to see the development, but there's also, well, why didn't this guy play like he did the year before? You dig in, you find out what was going on, and you're like, you know what? This guy's still a guy that can go and help someone in the league. This is still a guy that a team should invest in an early round pick on it. So there's that side of it as well.
- [39:27]
Todd McShay
You know, the other thing I do, just as a side note, Eric, I'll go back before I do a position group and I'll go back and watch. I'll newsreel it. Who are the Top two or three guys that got drafted last year. Like last year when we started on Cam Warden, Shador Sanders and Jackson Dart and all those guys, before I even started on that, I went and newsreeled. Jaden Daniels, Caleb Williams and Drake May. They were the top three quarterbacks taken. Right. And so I do that and I'm not watching the NFL tape, although there are times I go do that during the process as well to see where they have to get. And I'm like, just, you're always training your eyes, okay. And so you do that to, to help remind like that's what it looks like. And no one from this class looked like those guys. Drake Mainwind is in a system that didn't translate and Caleb went through his stuff at USC with the turnovers and the Notre Dame game and Jaden made a huge jump like. But. But when I was done with that, my eyes were trained. Okay. That's what it looks like. And I didn't see anything from this class that was at that level, but I still saw a lot of good. And so it helped keep perspective because we're going to keep year to year grades, you know, so I know that's not exactly what he asked, but that's in addition to. All right, next one for you. Mensch. If you gave me that long on. On Utah offensive lineman, I'm a pack a lunch. Tucker.
- [41:02]
Steve Levy
Let's try to be quick here.
- [41:03]
Todd McShay
Mark and Eduardo, what's the future of Indiana football? Do you think that. That the 2024. That 2024 was an anomaly or are we building something sustainable in Bloomington? Loved your write up SL podcast on Fernando Mendoza. We appreciate that, Mark.
- [41:20]
Steve Levy
So here's the thing. I'm more optimistic now that Signetti's there. I like what they're doing with the program. They're spending a little bit money of money. But this is a new world and you have to be a little bit of a realist here and say, are you going to spend Ohio State money? Are you going to spend Michigan money? Are you going to spend Oregon money? And we're talking about just within the conference and then talking about our getting back in the playoffs and being able to compete with these playoff teams. Look, I think Indiana is in a better spot that they were. I think they're. They were really, to be honest with you, a basement dweller in the, in the conference. And now they're a middle of the road program that I think depending on the schedule, like what happened last year where they got a. I think the schedule favored what they that that run. Depending on the schedule, Signetti is going to get good players. He's going to coach them. Well, if everything falls their way, they can make a run. They can be an interesting team. But I'm being a realist here. They are still not. I mean this they're building something sustainable and something competitive. But am I ready to put them in the top part of the league and say that they're a team that's going to go to the playoffs every year? I can't do that. I mean I've heard they're spending $20 million, which seems like a lot of money. I tried to get the, the exact numbers for this and, and maybe I should have asked someone else. I couldn't do it. But I'm hearing teams are spending the top teams are spending $40 million now a year in, in Indiana's in the 20s.
- [42:49]
Todd McShay
Okay, I hear you. You're not wrong. But he's asking is it an anomaly? I, I don't think so. I think they're going to laid out well and I think they cut going to the College Football Playoff. Yes. But I want to say this man, like they're also one of the best coach teams I watched on table last year.
- [43:09]
Steve Levy
Agree. So agree.
- [43:11]
Todd McShay
I'm not saying give me 20 million and and I don't want to say better coaches but like the product that is being coached with that 20 million, they're heading in the right direction. I also want to remind IU fans and I don't think we have to remind Mark or anyone like remind you Mitch. They CJ west and Curtis Rourke, I believe were their two draft picks last year, right?
- [43:36]
Steve Levy
Yes.
- [43:37]
Todd McShay
You know how many draft picks they had in 2024?
- [43:40]
Steve Levy
Guessing none.
- [43:41]
Todd McShay
23.
- [43:43]
Steve Levy
None.
- [43:44]
Todd McShay
22.
- [43:45]
Steve Levy
Let me. I can't even think of the last guy that was drafted out of there.
- [43:47]
Todd McShay
2022 was the last guy who was drafted. Micah McFadden, linebacker okay. 2021 Lamar, Lamar Johnson, defensive back, fifth round, both fifth round. Okay. 2020 they had one draft pick. 2019 they had one draft pick, none before the fourth round. 2018 is the last time that they had two. 2018 six years ago seven. Okay. Last time they had three drafted was back in 2016. So it'll be a decade when we come up on this draft that they had three. That was Jason Spriggs in the second round. Jordan Howard, the running back went to the Bears in the fifth and Nate Sudfield the quarterback who went in the sixth round to the they were the Redskins then the commanders now. But 20, 26 draft prospects. You ready? Fernando Mendoza could be a late first or second round pick. Day two, maybe Elijah Sarat we'll talk about on the wide receiver podcast next week. Show next week. D' Angelo Pons, cornerback Mikhail Kamara, Edge Pat Coogan, Notre Dame transfer.
- [45:07]
Steve Levy
Right.
- [45:08]
Todd McShay
That's five guys right there that I really believe will get drafted.
- [45:13]
Steve Levy
I think that they're definitely going in the right direction. Look, I was concerned about their schedule. I just pulled it up. I hadn't really looked at it. They're at Oregon in October and they're at Penn State in November. Those are two tough games. They're competitive if not winning. The rest of the. I think the rest of those. I mean they got Old Dominion, Kennesaw State and Indiana State for Mendoza to get his feet wet right out of the gate. They got three opponents that they fare well against. They got Illinois at home to open the Big Ten schedule this year. I know, but they're. I know. Illinois. Then they got Google me, bro.
- [45:48]
Todd McShay
Google me.
- [45:50]
Steve Levy
It's going to be better, I think. I mean these. You're playing a Big Ten schedule. I get that. But they're competitive in the rest of those games. So.
- [45:58]
Todd McShay
Next up. Go ahead.
- [45:59]
Steve Levy
Yeah, I mean if everything comes together. Yeah. Tucker, I might need you to bring back the music for me this time anyways. Number another our next question is from Devin. We hear about GMs and or owners who get enamored with a specific trait, whether it be speed, arm length, character, variable strength, I like that, etc. What do you think you would be enamored? What would be your enamored trait if you were in a front office? I think we'd all like to think we wouldn't get caught up in a specific trait. That's what I'd like to think too, Devin. But it probably happens to all front office personnel and I think you're right about that too. Devin.
- [46:33]
Todd McShay
General like 30,000 foot view. I used to lean more speed and now I lean more sturdy. Strength, power because the. It's a man's game and I've learned my biggest mistakes. Obviously not a quarterback or even skill positions but wide receiver. Some of my bigger mistakes have been gosh, that speed, my goodness, it's. You know. But if you don't have the power behind doesn't it typically doesn't work out the way that you expect it to. So I.
- [47:17]
Steve Levy
He mentions character in this. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna address it that this is what my hope would be. My. The first two things I would look at. Are. Are they a student of the game and what's their work ethic? Because when I hear the greats talk and they talk about, you know, I talked. You know, again, I'm going to reference a video about Devonte Adams playing wide receiver. I love this video. He talks about talking to Doug Baldwin about his release, and Doug Baldwin talks about watching Allen Iverson crossover to learn about his release.
- [47:49]
Todd McShay
Same video.
- [47:49]
Steve Levy
Adams is talking about a 2017 route that he ran that they. They tweak to run another way in a later game. This is a guy who's a student of the game, who's. He wants to learn. And some guys aren't students of the game in college. They haven't been exposed to it. But when you bring them in, do they get excited about their craft? They do. They get excited about what they can do better and about what you think you can do with them. And then do they have the work ethic to reach that potential? And to me, all of it's important. Like Devin said, you. I don't want to get enamored with one trait. Every player is a cocktail of different things that can get you to where you want to be. It's a very complicated process, but for me, I'm looking at work ethic. And are you a student of the game? Because I think those two things are way more important than any physical trait. Yes. There are things that will. You cannot play in the NFL. You cannot play wide receiver in the NFL. If you weigh 290 pounds and you're on 6, 2. You just can't do it. Like, there. Those are things that, like, will knock you out. But those would be the two traits that I would look for.
- [48:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I guess I'm. Yes. No question. But I do. There is definitely a, A, A psychological profile for every NFL team.
- [48:58]
Steve Levy
Right.
- [48:59]
Todd McShay
I do find it laughable sometimes that, that general managers who are most successful in the world talk about, like, the makeup of their team and the psychological. And then they go draft a player who's like, had.
- [49:11]
Steve Levy
Yeah.
- [49:12]
Todd McShay
All the stuff. And then the immediate. Not excuse, the immediate response is, well, we've built such a character, high character locker room. And I believe it. Like, I'm not saying they're wrong. And you can pluck a guy here or two, you know, one or two guys here or there if they're that talented and you've got enough veteran leadership and all that stuff. I'm just saying, like, if on board with my coaching staff and you have to be to be successful in this I'm gonna build and I'm talking traits. I'm gonna build a, a roster that is more built on physicality, strength. 17 games, grown ass men versus Philadelphia. Yeah, they're all the same. All these teams that are winning over the packers, like you said, the Ravens, the Bills, now the, the like, they're built on like powerful. That's what lasts in the NFL.
- [50:19]
Steve Levy
I agree.
- [50:20]
Todd McShay
I also, there's just a side, side note. I, I was talking to a head coach once and he said, you know, we were just talking philosophy and he said it's so hard to do. Just like Schottenheimer told me once on the ESPN set, whenever on commercial. Like the hardest thing to do as a, as an evaluator is predict what a human being is going to do with more money, free time and fame than they've ever had before. Right. It's a hard, that combination going to be deadly. Deadly to predict. This other head coach, we're really like digging into the psychology of all of it. And he said it's hard to find. But I'm, when I'm going through this interview process and I'm talking to our psychologist and I'm reading all the tests that they take and I'm going, I go into these, all of this with the mindset of I'm trying to find this perfect blend of in a player. I absolutely need football. Like a rabid animal, I need it. I don't have a family to rely on. I don't have money. I don't have. I don't have a support group. I don't have any. Like literally my whole fucking life is football. I have to. There's nothing else. I'm not. I can't go work a job. I don't have any. I got nothing. And I'm coachable. And it's hard to find that because this comes from not a lot of good upbringing. Times are. And it's not forever. But I'm just, it was an interesting conversation of like, like this is the only thing for me. I'm not going to have any. Like I have to have this. I'm so. I'm going to give every little and I don't know any better than like give it, give everything. But then to have that personality that's also trustworthy, shows up on time, coachable, listens, trusts me. It's fascinating. Right? Yeah. All right. You don't see Jo fascinated. I was. Go ahead.
- [52:37]
Steve Levy
Todd Mench, what has been your absolute most memorable college game day atmosphere? And you have a. You're going to have. This is going to be tough for you. And what region school towns do you most enjoy visiting? If you're ever in South Florida, would love to host you at our restaurant, Mandolin Adrian Bistro in Miami. I've never been to Miami. McShay. That's for Matt. We'll have to reach out to our boy Magnus, see if he's been.
- [53:02]
Todd McShay
I love Miami, man.
- [53:05]
Steve Levy
That does not surprise me.
- [53:06]
Todd McShay
I love Miami. I love going out to LA for the USC games, UCLA games, Rose Bowl. I have my own little world in both of those spots. I don't do like what everyone else does. I don't.
- [53:19]
Steve Levy
Don't throw out 50 places. Give me the one. Give me.
- [53:22]
Todd McShay
So I grew up going to Ohio State, Michigan. My grandfather, as I've told a lot of people, Marshall Brown worked as a. Back in the day where they used to have. Probably legal. Now again they used to have area recruiters and he had the Sandusky Northeast Ohio area for Michigan. Okay. Bo Schembechler, he went to college with my grandmother. Went to college with my grandmother and Beau were from the same small town, Barberton, Ohio. Okay. And so they grew really like when my grandfather passed, Bo was there, like that's how close that they were. Like it was at the actual funeral with like security bringing them in, the whole deal and hugs and talks and all that stuff. And so like, there's nothing more special to me because of my, you know, the nostalgic aspect of it, my family and all that. Ohio State, Michigan, and it is wonderful. But I'll never forget the first time I did early, early in my career going, working for espn. The first time I ever got down to the sec. I was working with Ron, Ron Franklin and, and Mike Godfrey, who actually just called me the other day, wants me to go come down and speak this. This fall in Mobile, Alabama.
- [54:37]
Steve Levy
And.
- [54:38]
Todd McShay
And Mike, I remember talking to him early in the week and we were talking, he's like, have you. Because we had. Now I had been to like Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida. Like I've been to a bunch of good games. We got the Iron Mole.
- [54:52]
Steve Levy
Wow. Yeah.
- [54:53]
Todd McShay
And it was like my first year covering college football, espn. I was, I was like a kind of a spotter. Would write football notes and was there to do a bunch of stuff including babysitting Ron and Mike when they were getting feisty.
- [55:12]
Steve Levy
I remember those stories.
- [55:13]
Todd McShay
But it like Ohio State, Michigan was passionate that they had a lot of like friendly fire jokes and. And it was passionate and it was deep rooted and it was family and you don't talk about. But it was like, a certain level of sophistication and respectfulness, but, like, anger and hate and all that stuff. The Iron bowl was different, man.
- [55:35]
Steve Levy
Gloves off, huh?
- [55:36]
Todd McShay
Well, like, people die over the Iron Bowl. Like. Like families, like. And so you get there and. And you're walking down the street, it's like Roll Tide, like, War Eagle, you know, like, it was just a different. And I remember getting. Walking in the stadium and Jordan Hare in Auburn and being like, oh, my. Like, the cracking of the pads and, like, I don't know all of it. So that was my first entree into, like. Oh, it is.
- [56:07]
Steve Levy
Yeah, that's.
- [56:08]
Todd McShay
That's cool. You know, but honestly, the Rose bowl, like, I went. I'll never forget, it was Brian Greasy versus Ryan Leaf. I went to that Rose bowl with my grandfather when towards some of his last years, I went to that Rose bowl with him. I worked. I went on to work with Brian for, like, five years. And we're really good friends now, so, like. But, like, having that memory and then coming full circle and going back and working, you know, doing pre game with ABC and espn. The Rose bowl, like, tough to beat how special that is to me and my family. But LSU night game.
- [56:46]
Steve Levy
Dude, you can't help yourself.
- [56:48]
Todd McShay
LSU night game, like, the cuisines, the. The smells, the two days leading up, going all the. We did a whole. No one watched it, but we did a whole thing on where would Todd be scouting this week? This week. And there's nothing, like, literally nothing. Like, if you have one shot, if you're in the audience, you got one shot. Someone says, you get one opportunity or you can scratch up the money. You have one chance to go to one place, one environment. I. I love Georgia. I love Tennessee. I love all the places. Do an LSU night game. The Swamp's pretty cool, too. Tom Petty.
- [57:27]
Steve Levy
All right, here we go. All right, next question.
- [57:34]
Todd McShay
Yes, I. It's funny. IU. IU for 40 minutes. And. And Utah.
- [57:44]
Steve Levy
All right, here. This is from John. Big Chargers fan here. It sounds like the knock on Omarion Hampton. Is it. His vision is inconsistent. Is that something that can be improved upon as a pro? How much do scouts weigh that running back evaluations?
- [58:00]
Todd McShay
I'm gonna throw it back to you real quickly on this. To me, if there was one, like, flying the ointment with. With Hampton, it was tight quarters. Gotta make a. Got to make a quick lateral. He wasn't like a Runway back where he needed it, but, like, if. If you got him going and then he had to make a quick and like tight quarters. That's when he got tripped up. Okay. But I love him in that offense. The vision thing wasn't a. Wasn't as much a thing for me, but go ahead.
- [58:31]
Steve Levy
It wasn't for me either. But it's interesting the way he phrases it here and says his vision is inconsistent, which maybe to me is suggesting that he's not synced up with that offensive line in that system yet. I think that maybe that's the problem, is that he's still learning to read some of those blocks. I don't think his vision. Vision was an issue. I'd be surprised if it's an issue going forward. But I do think there's a time where you got to sync up with your offensive lineman. You're understanding how they do things. It's a new kind of way. It's going to. There's an adjustment period. I will say this. It's a big deal for scouts. I mean, there are. There have been some big name running backs that came out and I'm thinking about one from Alabama, specifically who. I'm not going to say who didn't do that well in the pros. And a lot of it, there's a lot of video of him just missing gaps. It is an issue. Like it's an important trade for a running back to have people want to know whether or not you can read your blocks and get to the right, right spot. It's a huge deal over running back evaluation. I'm going to keep this one short.
- [59:27]
Todd McShay
All right, what do we got next?
- [59:28]
Steve Levy
Next we got. Hey, guys, love the content. And being ahead of the game when it comes to players before the season begins. Begins has been phenomenal. I've always wondered how grading gets tabulated when we get close to the draft. I've seen numbers like 93, 90, 85 thrown out there, but have never known how you've gotten there. Is there a specific formula or is it more of a feel that brings you there? I apologize if you've gone over this before and I missed it. Appreciate everything you and the team do, Jonathan.
- [59:57]
Todd McShay
Now it's just experience. It's 25 years of doing this. It's making mistakes. It's. It's over. Great. You know, being too high on one and learning. I've often compared our process to air traffic control. Like, you start out in May for the next year and like we're just trying to get all the planes up in the air and had them point them in the right direction and then kind of as we get into the fall, we're, we're kind of figuring out it, you know, a landing pattern, who, which, which planes are going to land in this certain airports and kind of shepherd them all there. Then when we get to the pre draft process like the, from the combine on, but even a little bit before that, we're trying to figure out exactly like flight, you know, arrival times like 9:53, six minutes later. 9:59. You know what I mean? Like so that hopefully Jonathan that provides like a little but bigger picture. You just kind of know through experience it seems like a cop out like that guy. And here's what we just kind of said in a few, a few answers ago. We, I, I always when we start out the process, I'll go back to the last three years all the time I keep the, the tallies I keep, get a sense of all right, here are the guys. Where does he fit? So when we would get done with a Nussmeier, it's like, is he between a Cam Ward and, and a, in a Jackson Dart, Is he better than, could he be better than Cam Ward? Where, where is he project? Like where's, where's his ascent? And then two years ago we talk about is he, is he Caleb, is he Jaden, is he Dre? You know, and so that helps formulate. And then you look at their grades and you're like, you know, I'm gonna give him a 92 right now. That's comfortable for me. It's in the ballpark. We're heading towards it. Knowing that I got a lot of time to figure out exactly like what altitude, how they're coming in, what exact landing time and all that stuff.
- [62:08]
Steve Levy
So grade wise though, let's get more into this because I think that's more of a. And I think it addresses part of the question about ranking where you would rank a guy. And we have discussed this before. I think it's good to go over it again. What's, what is a 90 in our system? A 90 to a 99.
- [62:23]
Todd McShay
So we, we didn't design it this way and quite frankly we had a different grading scale. You hear a lot about like the Ravens and, and you know, the Eagles. And a lot of them have statements like 6.7, 6.2. Originally Gary Horton, who started this whole thing back at the War Room and turned into ESPN Scouts Inc. When ESPN bought us out, they were like, we get your system. It's. But like it seems like we're gonna have to spend a lot of time on air and we have graphics and all that. So can you give us one to 100? Okay, so we 100 is. Is not reachable. I think not like Andrew luck was a 99. Like it used class with like a 97.98.
- [63:01]
Steve Levy
You know.
- [63:04]
Todd McShay
First round is 90. And. And again it's. If you go through, I could read you our grading skill. The 90 to 99 is essentially like these are all pro consistent. Like we believe that this player is going to be a consistent year in, year out, all pro.
- [63:23]
Steve Levy
We should get this in a mailbag, by the way. This would be good to get in a mailbag.
- [63:27]
Todd McShay
That. But I'm happy to do it. Yeah.
- [63:29]
Steve Levy
Okay.
- [63:29]
Todd McShay
80S are like really good starters, impact players. 70s and that equate that it's just worked out where the 90s are typically first round. 80s are second. 70s or third. That that 70 range is where it starts to shift to like maybe it's a nickel corner. Maybe, you know, maybe it's a. Maybe it's a backup who's going to develop. Maybe it's someone who's not quite there yet. But we're betting on the potential, all those sorts of things. 60s are fourth round. Typically 50s are fifth, 40s or sixth. 30s are 31 to 39 is seventh round. And then we give 30s for undrafted free agents.
- [64:09]
Steve Levy
30.
- [64:10]
Todd McShay
The like the actual number 30, not 31. 30.
- [64:13]
Steve Levy
Yeah, I think that helps clear it up a little bit. And then. And it is a field thing though, when you're looking at it is it's still a feel of I think this guy could be this in the league. And that's how you're kind of ending up with that grade. And we do this position specifics. And those are an A too. When you go through the position specifics and the height, weight, speed, all those, those helps get you to the grade. But at the end of the day, it really is a feeling. All right, next one. How far out are front offices thinking about the quality of an upcoming draft class and how does that play into their personnel moves and planning strategy? For example, let's say the class of quarterbacks next year doesn't look great, but the early read on 2027 is strong. Does that impact how they manage draft capital or structure contracts? Michael?
- [64:57]
Todd McShay
It does. And I, I don't want to overplay it, but I don't want to underplay it here. There's always an eye towards. Okay. There's always an eye towards what's coming out. We, everyone in the scouting community knows that Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams and Probably Arch Manning are all going to be in the 2027 draft. What does happen though? And this is where I think it's really applicable and I think the Rams just were an example of it. And I think the Eagles and Howie Roseman annually are. And there are several other teams. But I'm just trying to give recent examples of this year's class isn't as good maybe overall or this year's class isn't good at a position we need specifically quarterback for the Rams. So let's and, and combine that with. We got one Matthew Stafford for one more year definitively. So let's, let's move out of, let's move out of the first round. Pick 26. The Giants came up, I believe it was for Jackson Dart and, and let's get the second. Let's get a first rounder next year. So now we got two. Maybe Arch is in that class. Maybe we're in love with Club Nick. Okay, so that's an, an example. I hear stories. I talk to people shouldn't say it like I talk to people who are telling me stories of. We kind of. We, we knew next year's group was going to be great, so we weren't as desperate to do it this year. Plus combine that with what do we have under contract. That's the part where I think everyone's like, is GM good? How did he draft? Like, it's just a tiny part of what they do. Man. When you talk to, like when we sat down and talked to Howie, when we Talked to Eric DaCosta, when you talk, even when we're talked off mic about like the contracts that are coming up and how we manage the cap. But also, is this guy aging? Are we set behind him? And then you look at, you look at Howie and what he did with the Eagles and like how deep they are on the defensive line. Well, it wasn't just, let's just draft all Georgia defensive linemen. It's. I know this contract's coming up, so I got to bring somebody in to be in the back end because I can't afford to pay him, him, him and him, you know.
- [67:14]
Steve Levy
Yeah, I think you make a really good point about the Rams. I think the Browns are another good, good example of a team that picked up another first rounder as guys that can go up and, and get a talent maybe in two years. You know, if you're going to do that, if you're looking at someone. That's why the Cleveland Brown thing was so fascinating to me was why if you Got those two, two first round picks and you're thinking about getting a quarterback in this draft. Why are you then later on drafting two? That's something that didn't make sense to me.
- [67:41]
Todd McShay
I guess you can't have enough. You can't have enough. And maybe one of them and then maybe. So you can't have enough. No, you can't.
- [67:51]
Steve Levy
I don't think you can have enough.
- [67:52]
Todd McShay
Edge rushers.
- [67:53]
Steve Levy
I don't think you can have like there are positions you can't have enough. Quarterback's not one of them. You were saying you can't have enough.
- [67:59]
Todd McShay
Let's have them work all off season in training camp and then next off season and like, and, and look at, look at Matt Flynn. It's.
- [68:07]
Steve Levy
It's a great idea in a bubble, man. I get it. It's a great idea. Players. Look at when I start naming players that they could have gotten with that Dylan Gabriel pick in two years, in three years. And about places they have need and they have a different.
- [68:21]
Todd McShay
What if Dylan Gabriel's awesome and now I get two first round picks. I get a pass rusher and you know, Katie and nuts.
- [68:28]
Steve Levy
We'll see, man. So then, then I'll tell, then I'll name the players if, if Gabriel hits. I'll name the players they could have got when they got Sanders. It's great idea in a bubble. And I like drafting a quarterback every year.
- [68:39]
Todd McShay
You were probably the one who thought it was crazy to draft after drafting RG3 to draft Kirk Cousins.
- [68:45]
Steve Levy
I had questions about it. Yeah, there was questions about it. And that worked out. That worked out. I, there's, there's no question that worked out. They drafted Kirk Cousins third round and then they didn't draft another quarterback after that. I mean, like there, Listen, I get it. There's. And there's certain times where you can do an unorthodox thing. I get that. Getting back to this question specifically, I will say this.
- [69:06]
Todd McShay
Such a friendly afternoon there was.
- [69:08]
Steve Levy
Yeah, dude, you drive me nuts with that. You can't have too many. So there's a kind of a loser's mentality with looking too far ahead. You really want to address your team. You don't want to be in a position where you're going to get Jeremiah Smith. So you have to have draft capital to go get them. Because if you're getting draft Jeremiah Smith and you have an eye towards that and you're not addressing your roster because of that, man, that, that's a bad look. Because you're hoping to get a Top three pick. So I think that I understand the teams do it a little bit, but you really have to address and it's a dude, you got to win now. So I do think there's more of an immediacy to what teams do and they do, they have an idea of what's going on. They're not, you know, they have more than an idea of what's coming on, what's going on and what's coming down the pipe. But they're not waiting for someone to save their team two years from now or a year from now because they just can't do that. They don't know what's going to happen. God forbid someone gets an injury. God forbid something else happens. All of those things you got to address and build the best team that you can, I think year by year.
- [70:05]
Todd McShay
Hey Josh, you, you had no way of knowing it, but you picked a really shitty time to ask. First of all, congratulations to you men and the producers and behind the scenes crew for building the McShay show into a must watch podcast. My question for both of you, what do you believe the others greatest scouting strength is? I want to leave it open ended for a 10,000 foot view answer or a more or a more granular one. Josh. So thank you. It's the 13th and final question. It was not great timing. You had no idea on it. But I can put our differences aside and I'll start. As you just saw and is this the case with everybody in the world? Their greatest strength can also be your kryptonite. Right.
- [70:56]
Steve Levy
Like you're saying, it's also a flaw. Thank you.
- [71:00]
Todd McShay
No, my greatest strengths are my flaws, I promise you. But as you just saw from my good friend Steve, he's emotionally invested and, and sometimes it creates a blind spot. But like 99% of the time it's, it's. I'm grinding the work. I trust the work, I trust the process. Todd. I don't give a what anyone else says. Why is, why is this great change so as a complement to one another? One of the strengths I appreciate and obviously it takes a lot of hard work. It takes a lot of tape study. It takes an eye for talent. But the nuanced part that I appreciate about Steve is there's no wavering with this man. It is what it is. It's black and white. I may have to run off and do tv. I've got to do this, I got to do that. I've got all sorts of things. Big picture to worry. Steve keeps us right here where we belong. Our grade is our grade. We don't care about anybody else. Don't care about what shows up on tv. Don't care about how long a player is going to be waiting to have his name on the board. If we say he's a 94 and he doesn't go to the fourth round, I don't give a. We gave him a 94. That part. I. Many, many things. I could go on for half hour, even though he's annoying me right now, of all the strengths the men has, but he is not afraid to break the norm. He is going to stick with it. And that. That is a great compliment for me and all the kind of the peripheral stuff that I have to deal with.
- [72:34]
Steve Levy
All right, I'm gonna. There's gonna be some groans with the guys. Guys listening in, but I'm gonna go three. I'm gonna go quick. There's gonna be three. The first is Todd's ability to develop relationships and. And gather information, and develop trust and get really good information and know how to use that information, know who to trust. I. That's something I admire. It's something that you've done. You started early on in your career, and I think it's paid off in, you know, in big ways over the course of your career. The second thing I'm going to say is work ethic. You know, we do. Todd and I do do different things over the week. We develop different roles. So it's not like he's doing the same things that I'm doing, but I know he's always working when I'm working. There. There is. There's no easy way to do what we do. There is no shortcuts. And I think that's true about anything in life, whether it's playing an instrument, whether it's learning, you know, whether you're writing a book. There are. There are very few shortcuts in life, man. And so the work ethic for me is something that stands out. And the third one is one that I think that was a weakness for you early on, and I think you've gotten way better at, and that's listening. I think that earlier on, you were, you know, as. As bullish as I can be at times. And I think as you've gotten older and as you've gotten more experience, you're much better at listening to and not necessarily just, you know, when I don't say listening, I'm not saying, oh, I tell him something and he goes and does it, or he changes something. It's Okay. I have to reconsider. I think you've gotten to be a better listener as you got older.
- [74:08]
Todd McShay
This is such a sweet way to end.
- [74:10]
Steve Levy
Yeah.
- [74:10]
Todd McShay
Especially when I kind words.
- [74:12]
Steve Levy
My blood is boiling.
- [74:13]
Todd McShay
Yeah. You're still pissed off about can't have enough quarterbacks. All right. This is fun. Thank you again. Tomorrow, the McShay Report, premium subscribers. We've got, I've got a whole stack of papers here.
- [74:29]
Steve Levy
Questions, by the way. Great questions.
- [74:32]
Todd McShay
So we're going to keep doing this is going to be a consistent thing that we do. I don't know if it's going to be quarterly, every couple months, what we're going to do, but we're going to make put this in the, in the spinning wheel of content that we're going to continue to do. We appreciate you guys taking the time to write it. We appreciate you watching. We appreciate you downloading, subscribing, liking all of it. We really do. We're getting fired up for the season, but I'm more fired up to go barbecue right now and see what, see what these kids are up to and see if they've finished the first game of, of EA college football men. I appreciate you, brother.
- [75:02]
Steve Levy
I appreciate you, too, man.
- [75:03]
Todd McShay
All right, we'll see you guys next week. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org In Maryland, Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.