McShay’s Guys For Week 10. Plus: Jim Nagy on Cam Ward’s Rise and Garrett Nussmeier’s Draft Decision

Summary

The McShay Show: An In-Depth Look at Week 10 NFL Prospects and Strategic Draft Insights

Release Date: October 31, 2024

In the October 31, 2024 episode of The McShay Show, long-time NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay, alongside fellow expert Mel Kiper Jr., engages in a comprehensive discussion with Senior Bowl Executive Director Jim Nagy. The episode, titled "McShay’s Guys For Week 10. Plus: Jim Nagy on Cam Ward’s Rise and Garrett Nussmeier’s Draft Decision", offers listeners a deep dive into the latest NFL prospects, strategic mock drafts, and the evolving landscape of college football scouting.

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1. McShay’s Guys For Week 10

Todd McShay launches the episode with his favorite segment, "McShay’s Guys For Week 10", highlighting standout NFL prospects from the current college football season.

• Kyle Kennard – South Carolina Edge Rusher ([02:22]-[05:23])

  • McShay: "Kennard is the alpha male of South Carolina's defense, consistently creating pressures and wreaking havoc with an impressive 15% pressure rate, 8.5 sacks, and 23 pressures this year." ([04:15])
  • Mel Kiper Jr. concurs, emphasizing Kennard’s versatility and relentless motor, suggesting his draft stock could climb into the top 50 of the next Top 100 rankings.

• Antoine Powell Ryland – Virginia Tech Edge Rusher ([05:23]-[07:23])

  • Kiper Jr. praises Ryland for leading the FBS with 11 sacks, noting his ability to transition from speed to power and likening him to NFL’s Alex Highsmith. ([07:50])
  • Jigy emphasizes Ryland’s snapping capabilities and unrelenting pursuit of quarterbacks.

• Running Backs Jazz Hunter and Amaran Hampton ([07:33]-[12:53])

  • McShay discusses Auburn’s Jazz Hunter, highlighting his 120 carries, 863 rushing yards, and contributions in the passing game.
  • Kiper Jr. selects Amaran Hampton from North Carolina, comparing him to NFL stalwarts like Ramondre Stevenson and Nick Chubb for his size and ability to break tackles. ([09:42])

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2. The Running Back Class

The hosts delve into the depth of this year’s running back class, predicting a potentially historic draft run in the later rounds. They mention prospects like Ashton Gentee from Boise State and Caleb Johnson from Iowa, emphasizing the positional value and the abundance of talent available.

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3. Where Are the Scouts This Week?

McShay and Kiper Jr. analyze key college football games crucial for NFL scouting:

a. Ohio State vs. Penn State ([14:01]-[25:22])

• Key Focus: Ohio State’s offensive line struggles due to injuries, particularly at left tackle (Josh Simmons). The shift of Donovan Jackson from left guard to tackle introduces vulnerabilities.
• Penn State’s Strengths: Dominant defensive front led by Zane Durant, posing significant challenges for Ohio State’s quarterback Nicholas Singleton.
• Predictions:
  • Kiper Jr. favors Penn State, noting Ohio State’s offensive line issues and Penn State’s defensive prowess. ([25:12])

b. Oregon vs. Michigan ([25:28]-[30:15])

• Key Focus: Michigan’s defensive unit, especially defensive tackles Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant, versus Oregon’s offensive line vulnerabilities.
• Player Highlights:
  • Derek Harmon from Michigan: Potential top 50 pick for his defensive capabilities.
  • Dylan Gabriel (Oregon QB): Projected to struggle against Michigan’s robust defense.
• Predictions:
  • McShay predicts Michigan will cover the 14.5-point spread, highlighting their defensive improvements. ([25:22])

c. Texas A&M vs. South Carolina ([32:06]-[34:23])

• Key Focus: Texas A&M’s superior defensive line against South Carolina’s offensive line.
• Player Highlights:
  • Nick Scorton (Texas A&M): Stellar performance, drawing comparisons to NFL talents.
  • Shamar Stewart (Texas A&M DT): Praised for his versatility and power.
• Predictions:
  • Kiper Jr. supports Texas A&M’s chances, citing their defensive dominance. ([34:23])

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4. Where Would Todd Be This Week?

In a personal twist, Todd McShay shares his planned scouting and travel itinerary, blending the demands of being an NFL evaluator with his love for culinary experiences. He highlights his visit to Acre in Auburn, Alabama, praising its exceptional menu and vibrant atmosphere. ([35:10]-[40:16])

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5. Exclusive Conversation with Jim Nagy

Jim Nagy, Executive Director of the Senior Bowl and a long-time friend of McShay, joins the discussion to provide insider perspectives on the draft process and player evaluations.

a. Garrett Nussmeier’s Draft Decision ([48:07]-[53:14])

• Discussion Points:
  • Nusmeier: Todd and Jim debate whether Garrett Nussmeier should enter the draft or return for another year at the SEC level.
  • Nagy’s Take: Believes Nussmeier has first-round potential due to his talent and football lineage, despite some inconsistencies in game tape. ([50:35])

b. Jalen Milroe and Emerging Quarterbacks ([54:13]-[65:34])

• Jalen Milroe: Analyzes Milroe’s speed and decision-making improvements, comparing him to successful quarterbacks like Jalen Hurts.
• Other QBs: Brief mentions of Dylan Gabriel, Will Howard, and Curtis Roark, discussing their strengths and areas for improvement.

c. Offensive Tackles and Emerging Talent ([58:53]-[64:59])

• Emerging Tackles: Highlights prospects like Gray Zel from North Dakota State and William Campbell from William & Mary, discussing their physicality and potential to elevate their draft stock post-Senior Bowl.
• Small School Contributions: Emphasizes the unique talent emerging from smaller schools, despite the challenges posed by the transfer portal. ([60:36]-[64:59])

d. Senior Bowl Insights and Impact ([63:44]-[64:59])

• Player Elevation: Jim shares anecdotes of players like Terry McLaren from the Senior Bowl who significantly rose in draft rankings after standout performances.
• Process Transparency: Discusses how the Senior Bowl evaluates and supports player development, ensuring a fair and comprehensive scouting process. ([63:44]-[64:59])

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6. Culinary Adventures and Final Thoughts

Ending on a lighter note, Todd discusses his favorite dining spots in Mobile, Alabama, particularly Acre in Auburn, lauding its diverse and high-quality menu offerings. Both hosts express gratitude towards Jim Nagy for his invaluable contributions to the draft space and emphasize the importance of personal storytelling in understanding player backgrounds and potential.

Notable Quotes:

• Todd McShay on Kyle Kennard:

  • "[04:15] Kennard is the guy who's out there making plays, always around the football."

• Mel Kiper Jr. on Antoine Powell Ryland:

  • "[07:50] Antoine Powell Ryland is flying under the radar, but his four sacks against BC looked absolutely unblockable."

• Jim Nagy on Garrett Nussmeier:

  • "[50:35] If he does come out, I do think he's going to be a first round pick. He has the highest upside of anyone in this draft."

• Jim Nagy on Senior Bowl’s Impact:

  • "[63:44] There's a handful of guys every year that can jump around two or three rounds in the draft after showing up at the Senior Bowl."

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Conclusion

This episode of The McShay Show provides an intricate analysis of current NFL draft prospects, enriched by the expertise of Todd McShay, Mel Kiper Jr., and Jim Nagy. From detailed player evaluations to strategic game analyses and personal anecdotes, listeners gain a holistic view of the factors influencing the upcoming NFL Draft. The blend of technical insights and personal stories underscores the multifaceted nature of talent evaluation in modern football.

For those eager to stay ahead in draft preparations and gain insider knowledge, this episode stands out as an essential listen.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content sections have been omitted to focus solely on the substantive discussions and insights presented during the episode.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

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[Mel Kiper Jr.]

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[Todd McShay]

This is the McShay Show. Appreciate you all being here on tap. Today we've got the Senior bowl executive director and longtime friend Guy I used to work work with 25 years ago, Jim Nagy joining us on this show. We're going to talk a lot of NFL prospects. Also today we've got this week's edition of that's My Guy. Who are our guys? This is 2.0 mensch. I hope you're ready for that. And finally, where are the scouts going to be this week? And where would Todd be this week? And as usual, it's going to be food driven. We got Week 10 in the college football season, Week 9 in the NFL, and only 177 days until the NFL draft. Mean, you good?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm good, man.

[Todd McShay]

All right, let's hear that beat. Here we go. All right, men. Let's go, bud. This week we've got the 2.0 version. That's my guy. My favorite, favorite segment that we do here this week. You've had more time to watch some tape. Always curious at who you're looking at. Trying to put together our board. It's a long process. I'm going to start this off. Okay. I know we've got a couple running backs and a couple edges. For me, a guy that's really stood out in the tape that I've watched is Kyle Kenard. The edge from South Carolina. 6 5, 254 pounds. This South Carolina defense has been awesome to watch. I mean, they really have. They've shown up in big games. I know Dylan Stewart kind of got all the love early on. The true freshman coming in.

[Jim Nagy]

We'll be talking.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we'll be talking about him in the 2027 draft. But Kennard, like, for as good as this defense has been, South Carolina, he's the dog, you know, he's the alpha male. He's the guy who's out there making plays, always around the football. 15% pressure rate is what I read the other day. And I buy it because it seems like just consistently he's creating, Creating pressures, wreaking havoc. Eight and a half sacks, 23 pressures this year. What I love on tape, right, with Kenard is the. Some guys have great takeoffs. Like that first three steps. We're always talking about that. And, you know, like, when we're watching and evaluating players, I like to. I like to watch the sideline. Normally you want to watch the end zone copy. When you're evaluating tape, you get the scoreboard as the first screen, then you swipe it. Next screen is going to be the sideline copy, right? And that usually is when you're watching defensive backs, wide receivers, you can see all 22. It's called the all 22. And usually when you're watching the trenches, you want to watch that, that end zone copy. But with the edge rushers and even defensive tackles, when you're trying to look at that, that get off that takeoff the first few steps, I always watch the all 22 because you can get a sense of who's getting off the ball the fastest. It's a combination of two things. With pass rushers, when you're talking about that first three steps, snap, anticipation, and then the burst off of. Off the line of scrimmage, he's got both. That's what I love about it. Like, he, he knows, like the second that ball snap, you watch Joey Bosa, right? Nick Bosa. The Bosas are as good as Anyone in the league at that snap, Anticipation, firing off the ball. And then in addition, he's got the burst, he's got enough speed to get around the edge. Good with his hands, but an unrelenting motor. So Kyle Kennard is a player that I viewed as, you know, mid round prospect somewhere early. Day three coming into the year. I think when we come out with our first top 100, he might be in the top 50. What do you think?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I couldn't agree more. I mean, you go back to the LSU tape and I think that was kind of his coming out party. And you look at that, that game and he had two costly penalties. And if you're the average college football fan, you might be like, wow, this guy, tough game for him. I'm watching it and I'm like, this guy can get after the quarterback, you know. Yeah, sure, the penalties, something to take into account. But I'm watching him. He's. He's winning around the corner. He's crossing those, I mean, those are talented offensive tackles. We've talked a lot about him on the show. He's crossing their face. He's winning the inside. I love the versatility, the ability to kick inside. And then again the, the. It's, it doesn't make a, it's not the defining quality of what a great edge rusher is, but that motor, he is an absolute dog.

[Todd McShay]

And I'm excited, I'm excited to see him this week because this is a Texas A and M team and we'll get into that game a little bit more. An A and M team's offensive line continues to improve.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And now have Marcel read a quarterback run heavy run, centric offense. Not necessarily, not necessarily his specialty. And we'll get into all these things. But how does he perform? Setting a hard edge versus the run. How disruptive can he be? So that's a good test for him. Who, who do you got? Who's your guy this week?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm going to go with the Virginia Tech edge, Antoine Powell Ryland, who somehow is second in the FBS with 11 sacks and feels like he's flying under the radar. And I remember watching him against BC earlier this year, four sacks in that game looked absolutely unblockable. And when I watched him, I loved. He's got that snap in his hips when he transitions from speed to power, can kind of run over guys and then he's got that, that ability to dip and bend when he's at the top of his rush, which I think is what you're looking for in Elite edge rushers. My. A little bit of a concern is he's on the lighter side. He's got to get a little bit stronger against the run. But when you're an edge guy, you make your money getting after the quarterback. And this is a guy who get after the quarterback. And I know, I love my comps because, you know, they just bring all kinds of attention for me. But I see him a little bit of Alex Highsmith, the Steelers outside.

[Jim Nagy]

Okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

All right. Yeah, I got it. It gives me that kind of a vibe. That same high spit's a little bit lighter, but same kind of build and, and just that ability to absolutely get after the quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

We know that smooth beard, you're an attention. I, I know your game. All right. I'm last guy for me. We're, we're going to do two guys to my guys this week. Auburn running back Jazz Hunter I've liked for a while, but I feel like he's never been like I would say, but he's never been in that elite group like all the great running backs we have this year. We'll get into that. More Jim Nagy later. But, but to me, to see what Jarquist is starting to do and becoming a major part of that, that Auburn offense is fun to watch. I remember back with, with Jarquez, right? I remember back to 2021, watching a game against, against Penn State, Fowler, Herb street, that crew. It's a prime time game and there's this freshman running back that I don't know anything about, watching this game. And all of a sudden he's on the right, takes the edge. He's got good speed, turns a corner, and instead of taking on the defender, he hurdles him. Not always the best idea for a running back. Hurdles him successfully. It was a big play for them, really close game. If I remember correctly, it was a one touchdown game. In the end, Penn State won. But I, I remember that play specifically because I remember jumping on my phone and being like, all right, who's this guy? And, and, and it just, you know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Sticks with you, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So. So when you look at Hunter, like, he's having a really good season so far, 120 carries, 863 rushing yards already men, three touchdowns or five touchdowns. The thing that I like too, with all these running backs, you got to be able to catch the football and contribute in the passing game. He has 60 career receptions. Right. I've watched him, you know, against LSU, I think it was a couple years ago, adjusting to the ball down the sideline, the Ability to pluck away from his frame. And, and when I watch him, he's not one of those like guys, you know, he's not, he's not like the shiftiest. He's not the, you know, it doesn't have the most wiggle, but he, he really does a great job of running. He runs low to the ground. Contact balance, which, like, the more I scout, the longer I've been in this. That's like number one to me.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It jumped out big time to me for guys not, you know, over. He's not a big back. I wouldn't call him a big power.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's, he's.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

The contact balance is great.

[Todd McShay]

He's like 5 9, but he's 209 pounds, so he's tightly packed. Yeah, but he, it take. And he's not running over dudes, but he's, he's, he's continuing runs after initial contact and then the speed. Know the burst when like, it's not even necessarily one cut and go, but the burst off of cuts and the burst, you know, when, when he breaks off of, you know, breaks through contact. His burst in the open field is really impressive.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So yeah, we talk about slow two and quick through the hole. Yeah, that jumped out to me too.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Takes his time, lets those blocks go and then he. And then drops the hammer and accelerates to the hole.

[Todd McShay]

This running back class is loaded, dude.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Legitimate, right? It's. I'm excited about it. It'll be interesting to see where they all go because, you know, positional value. But there's gonna be a lot of good backs to come out.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's gonna be Ashton Gentee somewhere in the top 15 picks is my guess. It'll be round two, is my other guess. Maybe you see like, Judkins from Ohio State, former Ole Miss running back get sneak in late first. But I think we're gonna have like a historic run and it won't even be in the second. There will be a couple guys in the second, but like third, fourth, fifth round, maybe a historic run at running back. Speaking of running backs, who do you got? Who's your other. My guy.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm going with the North Carolina running back Amaran Hampton, a guy who's listed at 220 pounds. Right. I, I look at the size in the NFL. These are some of the backs that are, you know, similar build to him. You got Ramonde, Ramondre Stevenson out of New England. You got Nick Chubb for Cleveland. You've got Joe Mixon in Houston. Saquon's A little bit bigger. He's 233. He's actually, I mean, Saquon's unicorn, but same same grouping, I would think. And then Jonathan Taylor from the colts. All these 220ish pound backs. And I see that power. I see that ability to break tackles. I see that ability to push the pile when you don't get a seam in short yardage situations. And I also see the speed. And when I think about that speed and I think about that build, another comp for me would be mixing. I think he's got that kind of ability. I'm not sure he's as refined in the passing game, but I do think he's got upside in that area and I think he's a guy that can. Who has the toughness and the strength to hold up in pass, bro.

[Todd McShay]

I think he's in the.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think he might be in the running to running back 2 mix when it's all said and done. I do have junkins ahead of him right now, but I think Hampton could be there.

[Todd McShay]

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I'll just. Ashton Gentee from Boise State, Juddins and Henderson from. From Ohio State. These aren't necessarily our rankings, but right. Hampton. Hampton, who you just talked about North Carolina. Caleb Johnson, Iowa. Nicholas Singleton, Penn State. Ollie Gordon, Oklahoma State. Hunter, who I mentioned from Auburn. Trevor ETN from Georgia. Dylan Sampson, what he's done. Carrying the load for Tennessee. Dylan Manangai from. From Rutgers. Jaden Ott, Cal. Raheem Sanders from South Carolina. I literally could.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Martinez from Miami. He's been outstanding the last.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Khalel Mullings emerging out of nowhere for Mich Harvey from ucf. And there's like seven, eight more dudes.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, they're all dudes. They're all. I think they're all gonna play and contribute early in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

But the running back position's dead. I didn't give you a cop. How about I didn't give you a comp for Jarkez Hunter? What about Aaron Jones?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Ooh, I like that.

[Todd McShay]

Similar build. Like 5, 9, 2, 10, right? Not. Not the most overpowering, but contact balance can catch. I don't know. Just. Just someone to throw out there. All right, let's. Let's flip the script a little bit here. Next up, we want to get to. And we're going to do this every week. It's probably going to be on Thursdays. Start with that's my guy. And then number two. We always got to get to. Where are the scouts this week? This gives Us an opportunity to kind of break down some of the biggest games. What the scouts are looking for. And we always, you know, you get reports late in the week when, when everyone's filled it out and scouts let you know, the PR people for schools know and it's like 26 scouts there, including two. Two GMs. The games to me, like, there are some secondary games. I'll just list off. There's some secondary games where scouts will be like Duke, Michigan, obviously, Florida, Georgia, Duke, Miami.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. I'm sorry, Duke, Miami.

[Todd McShay]

Did I say Michigan? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why you're here. Match. You always, you always pick. Pick up my slack. Duke, Miami at Miami. Florida, Georgia. Right. Obviously the rivalry game, there's loads of talent at Georgia Summit. Florida, not as much. I was going through. I sorted out interesting document today. I was like only a few guys from Florida. Pit smu. Sneaky game. SMU with the one loss. Yeah. Going up against pit, undefeated. This is a sneaky game. Kentucky, Tennessee is another one. More so again, more so Tennessee, but that's another one. So those are like the. The B listers, if you will.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

To me, the A listers are. And I'll list off the three and we can get into each game. Ohio State, Penn State. We had a. What a great conversation with Joel Clatt the other day.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Unbelievable. What a guy. What a great guy.

[Todd McShay]

Great guy, Great stories, incredible detail and. And just, you know, not even analysis as much and was analysis. But it just like you can tell why he's so prepared and he's at the pinnacle of the game. Right. In terms of. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

When we, when we sat down and talked about what we wanted to get from the guests we had on each week, that was exactly it, you know.

[Todd McShay]

And more, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so. So Ohio State at Penn State's a noon game. Oregon Michigan is the 330 game. And then A and M, Texas A and M, South Carolina, A and M coming off that huge win against lsu, first place in the sec. Wouldn't want to go into Columbia this week though, you know, so we'll get to that. All right. Ohio State, Penn State. I'll. I'm going to give you a few things to jump out to me from a game standpoint, from a scouting standpoint, and you. You take it where you want to go. Obviously the big conversation in this game is Drew Aller. How much is he going to be available, if at all. And if not comes in. What was he? 11 of 13. Passing just looked really good. The Offense was clicking with them. In fact, I mean, I would argue the offense looked better in the second half against Wisconsin than it did in the first half with, with Aller in there. So, so that's like the big story and the big question mark coming into the game. The other big story, which we touched on a lot with, with Joel, the left tackle position for, for Ohio State. And just so people understand, like, Josh Simmons doesn't have a ton of game reps. Who was this former starting left tackle. But he was emerging. I mean, he was emerging like talking to scouts like this could be a first rounder.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. He was in the, he was. I think he was a day two.

[Jim Nagy]

Okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

With a real chance to move up.

[Todd McShay]

And, and so he's trending that way.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So he gets injured and they bring in the backup, Zen Mikalski. I think Mikowski, right, struggles. I mean, you know, this show's not about beating guys down and yeah, we.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Don'T need a pile.

[Todd McShay]

Not a good game. Got dinged up in that game. They went down to their number three offensive tackle. So the, the word is, and we got it from Joel and I keep reading it too, they're now going to move Donovan Jackson, who's an NFL draft prospect, from the left guard position to left tackle is my understanding. And then Luke Montgomery, who's a sophomore I don't know much about, he's going to plug into that left guard spot. So now it's like, it's like the age old question, are you better off just like plugging in a guy at left tackle, which is the most important position, protecting the blind side, or are you now potentially going to create vulnerability at two spots, your entire left, left side of the line. So that's something we obviously are going to, going to take a, A, you know, good hard look at. And it couldn't be a worse week to be trying to figure things out on your offensive line. Going up against Abdul Carter and this defensive front for, you know, I, it doesn't sound like, like Dennis Sutton. He's listed as questionable. When we talked to Joel, it didn't sound like he was going to play, but yeah, we'll take a look at that. But this, this defensive front is always loaded with dudes. So Penn State.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. On that note, I think a guy that we have not talked about that we might be talking about on Tuesday or Saturday night is the defensive tackle, Zane Durant. Undersized guy explores.

[Todd McShay]

Give me something bench. What do you got?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think he could be. We talk about. When you talk about Donovan Jackson kicking out to left tackle. And you already had concerns at right guard. I mean, I, I said that coming out of that game. You know, the left tackle took a lot of heat. But your right guards wasn't a great, great game for the right guard for Ohio State. So now you are kicking out your all American guard to tackle. You're, you're going to be. There's a little, there's some, a lot of questions on the inside all of a sudden. And you have a guy in, Zane Durant from Penn State who I think is kind of flown under the radar. He's a junior. We'll see what he does in terms of coming out, but undersized, but super explosive. And he could be a problem for them. He could be. Early penetration. You know, that's the worst thing for a quarterback is getting pressure in your face right away and then you're trying to get that running game going and you're, and you're going to give up penetration. He could be a problem for that team.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And Dennis Sutton, I just mentioned he was out last week against Wisconsin and came the guy who came in for him, Amin Vanover. I was talking to Rosillo on Monday and he was asking me like, who'd you watch in college football this week where you had, where you had to look him up and like, this guy's a dude. And I, so I was like, to me it was that edge for Penn State. Vanover.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

At 6-652-58- came in and had five quarterback pressures. So it'll be interesting to see what that, what that defensive front can do. On the flip side, you got Ohio State's defensive defense. We talked about it a lot. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole again. Not everyone playing up to elite level. And Joel, I don't want to say confirmed, but agreed that bunch of day two mid round guys on Ohio State, bunch of veterans should be playing better individually. And as a result of not playing to the elite level again, I don't want Ohio State fans to think that we're like tearing this group apart. Very talented. You got two veteran edges who are really talented. Sawyer and, and J.T. you've got two good cornerbacks who, who have been up and down this year, but very talented. Denzel Burke coming in with all the hype. Igbon Osin, the other cornerback, Davidson. Igbon Osen is, is a really talented guy who's been rising this year. So. But when you look at this Group, they haven't played to the level that you would expect. And there's not, like, as I mentioned before, it's not Alabama, it's not Georgia. Like, when they're at their best, four or five guys in the first round, six, seven, eight guys in the top 100, it's just not that. So it's going to be interesting. Now you got Penn State quarterback. What's the situation there? I do love Nicholas Singleton, 6 foot, 226 pounds, got off to a fast start, missed the ucla game, only 22 carries the last two weeks. I'm expecting to see a little bit more of Singleton in this game, though.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, absolutely. And then you get the one two punch with Allen coming in now. Oh, I'll say this, Ohio State's defensive tackles I like too, which you didn't mention, but you mentioned pretty much everyone else. But there are defense attackers are good. They've been good against the run. But this is a. It's a talented group that Penn State's bringing in. And depending who's that quarterback, if you have Pribula. Is that how you say it? Yeah. It's going to be a different kind of attack from Penn State, a little more difficult for them to defend. So it'll be interesting to see how that run defense, which has been pretty stout, holds up against that kind of a rushing attack.

[Todd McShay]

We've talked a lot about Colston Loveland, tight end from Michigan. We've talked a lot about your boy Mason Taylor, who made you. Made you look like a jerk for the. In the first place. He was. He was. He was one of the. That's my guy. Last week. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

What happened to my guy on that first drive?

[Todd McShay]

Dropped the touchdown, but then. Then caught another one a few plays later. We both love him and we've talked a lot and I talked about, I think last week and that. That's my guy. Guys, I've been really, really like, enjoying watching this season. Elijah Arroyo from. From Miami.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. Gunnar Helms, another one from Texas, Gunner.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he groups pretty good. But Tyler Warren, Penn State and just knowing. Knowing his background, dad's of. Dad's a safety from Richmond. Did you know that?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I did not know that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, man, that's awesome. That's why you get to keep in touch with your former coach, Frank.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I knew he was a Mechanicsville kid. I knew that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Dad was a safety at the University of Richmond, played for the Spiders. But. But Tyler Warren, just like, great dude. Absolutely loves the game. Versatility, even snapped the ball last week for what? That's worth. And it's not worth much as an NFL scout, but I mean. Or that was the last a couple weeks ago and when he had 17 catches versus USC. But I asked, I asked Joel, like, who are the other weapons that are going to step up? And he gave some. Some great answers. But I'm interested to see against this talented defense for Ohio State, better athletic, better athleticism at linebacker, better cover guys at safety than at usc. How can he be productive? You know, what's the production level that he's going to provide? Does he separate? Does he get in and out of breaks? Does he work back to his quarterback? Is it a young quarterback that he's working with that he's still figuring out how to open? Those are the little things that I want to watch in this game specifically to see truly like how much he's grown from a year ago. Because so far the tape says it's. He was awesome last year and he's. He's thrived in this role. Remember Theo Johnson got drafted last year. Now he's become the guy and he's proven me and handle it. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He doesn't necessarily have to separate. Well, he's 6 foot 6, 261 pounds.

[Todd McShay]

Separation for me, a tight end is late separation as much as anything. Using that body to body. Just to be clear.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Physically.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

How do they physically separate? Not so much for the quick twitch, change of direction kind of things, but that's one of the things that I think separates him from this tight end group is he is 6 foot 6, 260 pounds. For a tight. For a tight end these days, I mean, that's huge. And to see the body control and the way he can track the ball, I'm excited to see what he does. I do think a lot of it will depend on who's that quarterback and how well that that quarterback plays. So we'll see.

[Todd McShay]

This game's fascinating to me, man. Like Ryan Day, I looked it up today. I'm terrible with this stuff. But like, I think he's lost his last four versus top five opponents. James Franklin's like, James Franklin never wins against top five opponents. Like, something's got to give, right?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It feels like it's Penn State's here, but it can't be Penn State's here. It's never Penn State's here. Right.

[Todd McShay]

I'm taking Penn State pl and a half.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I like it.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not a J. I'm. I'm unapologetic in that. I am not a James Franklin guy. We'll leave it at that. We don't have to go into detail reasoning or anything else. I'm not a James Franklin guy, but I think with the offensive line and the issues that they're having, I, I could see Ohio State coming out and playing its best game of the year.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I want that as a cave. You said this, but I, we're gonna lean.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

We'll lean Penn State and Ohio State by 10. That's what, that's what will happen.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. So you're so gunned ahead. You're taking Ohio State.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm taking Penn State.

[Todd McShay]

All right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It just feels different. It just feels different.

[Todd McShay]

If you're listening out there, I would race to your. I would race to fanduel. I would race to fanduel right now and give the points. Ohio State. All right. So that, that, that's kind of, that's all we've got for Penn State. Ohio State, like I like. I'm going to be parked for that game at noon on fox. All right. 330 game. Oregon, Michigan. Oregon minus 14 and a half. Feels like a fair spread.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

You got Davis Warren back in at quarterback. It has been a carousel for Michigan. Right. NFL scouts have a lot of other, other positions that they're scouting in this game. No question about Dylan Gabriel, obviously. Potential late round pick, played the best ball of his life. We've seen what Stein has done with him, the offensive coordinator and, and certainly what, what Bo Nicks, the success he experienced with Stein in that Oregon offense a year ago and what that propelled him to. It's not going to be the same rise for, for Gabriel.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But he can't be playing much better than he is, you know. And so, so if there's a quarterback you're looking at in this game, it's obviously him. But so much other talent on. I'm just going to list off some of the top guys. Derek Harmon I featured, I think it was last week, players, players to watch that are rising. I think Harmon, former Michigan State defensive lineman, three technique. He's a player that really is rising. Could be a top 50 pick. The wide receivers for Oregon, you got Evan Stewart and Tez Johnson both having terrific years right on the D on the. And Terrence for Ferguson as well, tight end for Oregon. So there are some dudes on that side of the ball.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Don't forget about my guy Johnny Cornelius at right tackle. I think he's a guy I got. It's day two. Who can move up to.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I'm just looking. You got a, you got a 60.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Listen, I'm not going to let any.

[Todd McShay]

Offensive lineman 60, 67 grade on him. Means. Means early third, but I mean early fourth. But you're thinking maybe you could work into. Into day two. Okay. On the flip side, like it's really about the defense. If I'm breaking down this game. Right. The one thing I really want to watch this Oregon offensive line. If you're looking at all the position groups, Oregon offensive line has been vulnerable. Hasn't been terrible, but it's just been adequate. I'd say started off really slow in the first couple of games, has improved, but there's been vulnerability.

[Jim Nagy]

It's.

[Todd McShay]

It's had its trouble. Now if you're going to give an edge anywhere to Michigan, it's this defensive front against that Oregon offensive line. And so you talk about Mason Graham potential top five, top seven pick at defensive tackle might be the best player in this draft.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

By the way, regardless of position.

[Todd McShay]

I know that's your dude. You always love Michigan defensive tackles.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That is. I didn't think of that. I hadn't thought about that. It's 100% right and I'm not going to apologize for it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you've got. Well, maybe you should. Kenneth Grant, the other defensive tackle. Best. Best defensive tackle group inside defensive line group in. In college football. There's no question. Yeah. Josiah Stewart. Those, you know, so those speed off the edge.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Speed off the edge. So this defense, if Michigan has any chance of pulling off this upset in the big house, it's got to be Graham, Grant, Stewart and the in the gang up front. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Especially because it's. I don't. I've been checking. I don't think it looks good for Will Johnson play who's.

[Todd McShay]

You know, that was my next point. And Michigan secondary has been a weakness this year. Surprising. I mean Will Johnson, 100% healthy, has played great in spurts, but he hasn't. He hasn't totally been himself. He's been nicked up. And when he's healthy though, he's the best pure corner. Travis Hunter is in a different. A different category because he can both sides what he can do on the offensive side at wide receiver. But Will Johnson like he is special. Patrick sir tan.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Sure. That's totally fair.

[Todd McShay]

Is that fair?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I like that.

[Todd McShay]

All right, so. So that to me is going to be the matchup you got to watch because if. If Oregon can protect and if Stein can scheme it up where Gabriel has time. They've got the weapons. This could get ugly in Ann Arbor. It could But I don't think they do. I don't think that they have the offensive line. I think. I think this is going to be a dog fight, really. Oregon's. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I think they're walking into a major trap here. Oregon. I'm not saying Michigan's going to win, but. But my fanduel folks out there, take the 14 and a half. Michigan is going to step up. They are going to play great defensively. They are going to frustrate Gabriel. We've been waiting for Gabriel to have one of those games, and he's had him in the past. Like, he's good for us.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Plays really well in nine games, and there's three games where he doesn't play to his level. And I think this is. I'm not saying he's going to throw a dud out there. I don't. I just don't think that's where he is. But I think he's going to struggle more in this game than he has all season. And I don't think those weapons are going to be able to exploit the secondary the way they should because of the trouble up front. Now, offensively, like, sheesh. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

They're going to have a hard time keeping pace even if Oregon's not going at the clip they usually go at.

[Todd McShay]

I agree. That's why I'm not taking the. The. The outright.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

The money line. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But give me that 14 and a hook. That hook. That hook is appealing to me. You know, I could see that. I could see, you know, it like it goes from sunny and Ann Arbor. I've been in that stadium so many. I probably covered. And Michigan more than any other school during my, like, 12 years out on the road.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right, Right.

[Todd McShay]

The sun goes down. It gets kind of dark in there. It gets a little colder. I know Oregon, it's not like Miami playing there, but it's just a different vibe in the second half. I. I could. I could see this game just being a little bit ugly and a little. Just scary at the end for Oregon.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

That's what. All right. That's all you got. Who do you like? You're gonna take. You're gonna give the points, aren't you?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I could see Michigan covering. My concern is that this Michigan team, coming off the year that they had last year, all the injuries, the. The concerns at quarterback, are they. Are they going to be amped up like you would be if the number one team came to. Came into your stadium?

[Todd McShay]

Of course they stamped up. What the are you talking About.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I don't know, man. It's been a tough year for Michigan.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But these, I mean, this is. If you get any juice left in the tank and I'm assuming they do, we'll see. All right. All right, last one. Rip through this. Texas A and M. South Carolina. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Going to keep it simple.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, man, I'm excited.

[Jim Nagy]

Let's go.

[Todd McShay]

I mean we touched on a lot of it already, but South Carolina's past defense is elite, but only average versus the run. Vulnerable between the tackles. If you're looking for something like can they. Can South Carolina stop the inside run? Right to me like that. That's going to be. That's going to be critical. On the flip side, defensive line for A and M. Clear advantage. That's where I think A and M is going to win this game. Clear advantage versus South Carolina's offensive line. Nick Scorton, we've talked a lot about him having a great year. The year you would expect for a guy who's, who's looking at coming out in the 2025 NFL Draft and another player. I was watching this tape, the tape the other day. Sherman Stewart, defensive tackle for A M. Shamar Stewart.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. The both Shamars are awesome, man.

[Todd McShay]

Is it? Is it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good thing. I can watch the tape and don't need the names. Good thing. We got 177 days until the NFL draft. Shamar Stewart, sorry. Six, six, 290 pounds. I like. Yeah, he's long, versatile. They move him around quick and powerful. That's what I want. Defensive tackles, inside guys, quick and powerful, you know, and that's what he's got some jolt in his hands. So those are the two guys in the defensive line that I'm looking, looking forward to watching in this game. What else you got in that?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Both Shamars give me Shamar Turner and Shamar Stewart. I think both those guys are studs. South Carolina, you know, we've talked upon their edges a little bit, but don't forget about my guy, the safety, Nick Eamon worry on the back end.

[Todd McShay]

I know. How could we.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Big stage for him to continue to make plays. So I'm excited to see what he does. But yeah, it's really. I mean I'm not gonna over complicate this. This is the defensive lines. If you're a defensive line coach in the NFL, you, this is a tape that you are absolutely throwing in to see how these guys play.

[Todd McShay]

I, I'm. I'm starting to buy Texas A and M a lot as I'VE we've talked about all week long coming off that LSU game, if they can go into Columbia night game and take care of business against a scary defense and a South Carolina team that just hung tight and has played good ball all year long, I will be thoroughly impressed. You know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

If they can come in and control this game, they're all a two and a half point spread. Vegas is expecting this to be tight. I would take A and M. I just, I just trust Elko more. It's weird to trust an A and M coach and an A program that's always been about like the flash and the recruits and just and never has lived up to the excitement and the hype and the 12th man and all the other stuff that comes with it. This team feels grounded, like there's a foundation. I'm excited to see this game.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I agree.

[Todd McShay]

All right, I think we got some imaging this week.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Let's go.

[Todd McShay]

Where, where would Todd be this week? Let's, let's toss to it Mitch. Let's see what we got. That seems about right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's great.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, it's, it's, it's so ridiculous that it actually is great. I'm here for it. So where would I be this week? You ready? Every week I'm going to give you my first four or five years working with the War Room before it became Scout Saint, I had like an unbelievable opportunity. I was 23 years old, flying around, driving around the country like I was a GM. You know, GMs get a week off. They try to squeeze in three games. It's two college games in the weekend and an NFL game. So I'm going back to those days. I'm, I'm going to be the gm. Where would I be? What would my trip look like? And it always has to include food. I'd start at Vandy. I'd start at Vandy. Auburn. Okay. Not great prospects, but we already talked about J J Hunter, the running back. There's dudes at Fandy, there's dudes at Auburn.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Enough to justify the trip.

[Todd McShay]

Bingo.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You just got to sell it to the boss, you know?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, the, the boss is like, oh, SEC game. Okay, so you're going to get me two games on Saturday? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm going to get you two games. Work with me here. What he does, what he doesn't know is that this first game is all about Friday night. We'll get back to that in a second. So what I'm going to do is I'm going Vandy Auburn hard out at 3:00. No matter where the game is, I'm not there to be a fan. I'm not pulling for Vandy and the upset, I'm not pulling for Auburn in this game. Right. Actually it might not even be an upset, I'm not sure. But I'm not pulling for either of these teams. So 3:00, wheels up, right In a car because I'm not flying privately. Wheels up in the car. All right. And we're. We're hitting the road. Four hours we're going. It says 4:35 on the maps, you know, but I'm gonna make it in 4, 4 10. I will be. You will make it, Columbia. I. Yes, I will. May have a ticket, but I will be there. I will be in South Columbia, South Carolina by 7:10 to get the kickoff there. What an awesome environment that's going to be like. I can't wait to watch that. It's gonna be something fun about a South Carolina night game with all, you know, the, all the stuff they get going on. So I'm gonna be there for that night. Okay. And then I wake up the next morning, another three hours old drive to Atlanta and I got the Cowboys at the Falcons. That's the weekend. The highlight though is this. And we got to put up the graphic. I'm telling you of all my stops all over this beautiful country of ours, all the diners, the great restaurants, the five stars, the places that people don't know about. I've got a list on my phone that goes for miles. 12 years on the road doing this, another five, like seven years before that I did like three years in studio in between. Seven years before that, scouting, going out with Mike Godfrey and Ron Franklin early in my early days. So I've been around. Food is everything to me. I am. I've got to tell you about this place. M. I'm going to get you down to Auburn. I might. The train might have to stop on the way down to Mobile, Alabama for the Senior Bowl.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm flying now, baby.

[Todd McShay]

Acre. Acre. When in Auburn you got to go to Acre. Here's the menu. Hats off to our guys for getting this up as a graphic. All right, I want to talk you through this. Here's how you do it. Okay. The last meal I had was about, I don't know, four or five years ago with Steve Levy and Brian Greasy. And we rolled out of there and we might have stumbled a little bit too, but we rolled out of there after. It was probably a three and a Half hour dinner. Okay. We came in and very kind to us. Brought. They brought basically everything. But here's what you have to have when you're at Acre in Auburn, Alabama. Come in. I'm not like a big whiskey guy, but come in and get your, get your cocktail. Sit at the bar. Before you go, sit down and start with a couple snacks. They call it first snack, you gotta have chicken fried bacon, sawmill gravy, Vermont maple syrup, barbecue pecans. It's unbelievable. Mitch. And then you're starting out with this, so you got. You gotta really prepare. You can't have lunch, light breakfast. Then you go to the lacquered cornbread, honey hot sauce, butter onsen mills. I don't even know what that was, but bean seeds. Like the. Some of the best cornbread I've ever had in my life. And I've spent a lot of time in the south over the years. Then you get a starter. When you go, move over to your table, get a starter. Start things up. The gas station, boudin, boudin balls. Oh, spicy mustard sauce bar, the B and B pickles. All right, so you. I'd like to get everything, and I've done everything there. But then you got to move to the butcher block. Pace yourself. Right? Butcher block. All the charcuterie, all the cheese, all the fixings, family style. And then you get down to the entree. Like, I'm always least excited about the entree, but you got, you got all these. The gulf brown shrimp, rigatoni, the maple leaf duck breast, and then the. I've had this before. You ready? The red fish on the half shell with deckhand butter. This place is unbelievable. So that's my trip. That's why. And it would be Acre. So if you're out there, folks, at Acre, hats off to you.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Two major green flags on this. On this menu. Fall 2024. Love the seasonal menus, man. Love when you know they're changing it up to get what's. What's fresh, then what's the best ingredients in season and anything with snacks. If you have a snack section of your menu, you know it's going to make me happy.

[Todd McShay]

It's going to get.

[Jim Nagy]

Dave.

[Todd McShay]

David Bancroft does not bleep around, you know, like this. I'm telling, like in New York City, Louisiana, like this is. But it's, but it's even better because it's like it's down south, you know, right. It's that level quality of food, but it's like. And you're like tucked in there, you get the Auburn fans on Friday night. Like the environment's the best. The absolute best. So. So hats off to to chef and owner David Bancroft and I can't wait to get back down there. So that's it for this week. Mentioned we got our guy Jim Nagy, Executive director of the Senior Bowl. Long time friend. He's been around the NFL. He knows the scouting circuit and all the players as well as anybody out there. It's a great opportunity to talk to him. We're going to be talking to him a lot on the McShay show coming up leading up to and through the NFL Draft, but this is the first time we've been able to bring him on. Really excited to have Jim the McShay show is presented by FanDuel. Get out your game day gear this college football season on FanDuel because right now all customers get a profit boost every college football Saturday. That's every single Saturday one game I'm looking long and hard at this weekend. Penn State vs Ohio State Buckeyes go into a tough environment in Happy Valley. Offensive line is struggling. This might be the one where Penn State finally turns the corner and wins the big game. Boost your winnings on bets like spreads over unders, method of first touchdown and so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sports book and kick off every college football Saturday with a boost. Must be 21 or older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in DC. Bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook fanduel.com this episode is brought.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

To you by Vitamin Water Food Entertainment.

[Todd McShay]

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[Jim Nagy]

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[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's got something for every taste, so.

[Jim Nagy]

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[Mel Kiper Jr.]

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[Todd McShay]

Vibrancy into a watered down life.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So grab some Vitamin Water today, NYC style.

[Todd McShay]

Vitamin Water is a registered trademark of Glass O. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for Career Day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be. To be gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com Naggy, how are you, brother?

[Jim Nagy]

Welcome back, man. Welcome back to the draft space. Todd McShane, it's been a minute. Good to see you, buddy.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not going to give you some long formal introductions, just not, not how we do it here, but I will tell you. So, Menge, remember we talked and I. You guys know each other very well.

[Jim Nagy]

We've.

[Todd McShay]

We've all kind of worked together and around each other for, for two and a half decades. But I was telling the story the other day, mentioned about when I was, you know, interning with Gary Horton in Arizona, moved up to New York City, making 12 grand that first year. What I didn't explain to people was a couple things. One, I was living on Gary's couch in a one bedroom in midtown Manhattan, which was less than ideal. Okay. And let's just say God bless Gary Horton, you know, God. God rest his soul. An absolute character. The absolute best, but also just the stories never ending. So, anyway, so I was mentioned, like 20. What was it? 57th and 7th in Midtown Manhattan. 27th floor, I think it was. We're up there with, like, David Fock, who's repping Michael Jordan and all that. So I walk in the first day and I'm like, I don't know what to expect. And I walk into an office. It's not even our office. It's more Nagy's office than it is Gary Horton's office, because Maggie's working with, with Mike George, who was an agent, had a lot, a lot of players, a lot of, like, Florida guys, all that. So gary Horton, who's 3, 330, 350. No, I mean, he's a big dude.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Let's go, big guy. Yeah, big guy.

[Jim Nagy]

He's.

[Todd McShay]

He's in the corner at Mike George's desk, nagging. And this is like the size of one executive's office. Not like an head coach in college football, but like just an executive office space. Nagy's sitting in the other corner. And I walk in, it's like, all right, I walk in and I pull up at table. Now I'm staring at Gary, you know, my computer and chair. I pull up, we're staring at Gary. We're back to back, and we're off and running. It was the most dysfunctional off. I mean, he was cutting his toenails in the middle of the office. But it was, it was the most Dysfunctional company in the history of companies. We're all squatting inside this. This agent's office who lived down in Florida. And it. But it turns out, like, you know, Dean Dalton worked with us. He wound up working for the Vikings as a running backs coach. Nagy went on to be, you know, Patriots winning Super bowl rings, Chiefs, Seahawks, and now the executive director with the. With the Senior Bowl. And that's. That's my brief introduction. I'm sure we could do stories for days, man. But we do appreciate your time and plan on having you as many times as you'll come on with us. But. But thanks for joining us, bud.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, man, you forgot Mike Levine, too, The president of CAA Sports. Vino's Big time. Vino's made it bigger than anybody. So, yeah, that was where we could. We could do like an intro every time I come on. We could do like one Gary Story per episode or something. I don't know. I don't know what rated this, what rated your program is, man. But. But no, it's cool. That was. I mean, think about that. We are both like young idiots in our 20s, and we were in this corner office in midtown Manhattan overlooking Central park and midtown. I mean, that seems like a. Seems like a lifetime ago, dude. Like, that doesn't even seem like the same person lived that life as us right now. But, yeah, so it's been awesome, man. It's awesome to see what you've done, and it's cool to have you back in the space. Like I said, like, you can. You've contributed so much to the draft space over the years. And again, like, when we were young, dude, like, I wanted to be with a team and you wanted to do what you did. So that was kind of cool. Like, we split off and won our own paths, but we both went the ways we wanted to go. But no, I mean, whether people want to give you credit or not or admit it or not, like, you're a big reason why a lot of people love the draft now, man. Like, you've seen, like, a whole generation of, like, young people into, like, their 30s and 40s now, man. So it's cool to have you back.

[Todd McShay]

I appreciate it, brother. And it's. It's amazing how life works. Like, full circle. Working in that office, just couple. Couple idiots and now, like, probably closer friends than ever before. So I've appreciated our friendship and relationship over the years. Let's get down to business, bud. Like, we're gearing up. January, last week in January, the Senior bowl is coming Up. Feels like it. You know it. We're getting closer and closer as we go. February 1st is the Reese's Senior bowl this year. Mitch will be down there if we can get him on that plane. I'll be down there. I'm sure I'll be bugging you like a week before because my hotel room won't be right.

[Jim Nagy]

That sounds about right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

We got a long standing tradition.

[Jim Nagy]

You and Albert Breer every year. Albert. You and Albert Breer every year is the late hotel. Guys.

[Todd McShay]

Burt Breer keeps following me around like I used to live in the south end of Boston. He was a block away. I didn't know. Found out like a year and a half later. Now I'm down in Cohass in the South Shore. He's like two towns down in Duxbury. Just found out like a week ago anyway, so. Yeah, Bert, I could see that. A couple. Couple messing everything up. Let's. Let's get to it. Obviously, we're. I'd like to be unlike a lot of other shows, but we do want to talk quarterbacks for a minute. I texted you the other night about, about Garrett Nussmeier. We both love him. Like, love the dude. Love the, the it factor. The competitiveness as a player. Like the anticipation, changing arm angles. He has the mental like the gun slinging. But it's funny going on X and Twitter, whatever you call it. And you know, everyone's racing the qb. He's my QB one. He's just. But like, the more tape I watch, I just wonder, would it be best for him to come back another year or is he going to be ready to go after this year? I'm not asking you to answer that question necessarily, but I do know that you're closer to this than anybody out there. And I'm just curious, like, what you're hearing, what you think, you know, what do you think with Nuss Meyer in this year's quarterback class?

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, I think. Excuse me. He's an interesting one. I think if he does come out, I do think he's going to be a first round pick. I do think he's got the highest upside of anyone in this draft. But you're talking about a really small sample size. I mean, when we were. I went to SEC media days over the summer and before I went down the first day knowing I was going to be asked about Nussmeyer, I rolled through that Wisconsin bowl game and I was like, wow, is there a lot to like. I mean, I saw him, I went to a Practice last year in August to see he. To see Jaden Daniels throw in Nussmeyer. I was like, wow. Like, I knew his name.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Jim Nagy]

Like, we both know his dad. We both schools with his dad, Doug Nussmeyer. You know, he's. For people that don't know, he's the quarterbacks coach of the Philadelphia Eagles now has spent a lot of time across college football. Michigan, Alabama, Florida.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Jim Nagy]

Number of different places. And I didn't, you know, but I didn't know how good I didn't know as talented his son was. So we're watching practice. I'm like, oh, my God, this kid can absolutely rip it. And then you had the one game to go off. So rolling into this year, like, that one game, there was so much good stuff. I was excited to see him. So I do think of it.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

And the other night, like, it's just hilarious, you know, sitting on Twitter, you know, during a game and seeing. It's just. I don't know. It's kind of entertaining. We all do it.

[Todd McShay]

Very.

[Jim Nagy]

But.

[Todd McShay]

But, but, you know, and mildly frustrating, to say the least.

[Jim Nagy]

I think the biggest thing with any. Threw those picks the other night. Again, to the gunslinger thing. First of all, if we can address that. I like it. I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Because I said it as a positive.

[Jim Nagy]

You know, maybe it's my first job in the league was around Brett Favre. I feel like you can rein that in. It's hard to coach balls into a player. Like, and you got to have some balls to play at the next level. You got. Those windows are going to be smaller. You have to trust your arm to a degree. You got to let it rip. And he's got that. So does he. Does he need to be smarter sometimes for the football? There's no doubt. You know, I think a couple of those interceptions the other night were just inexperienced. I don't think he saw the coverage right. Yeah, he got.

[Todd McShay]

He got tricked. And Elko, great stuff at him.

[Jim Nagy]

Give Mike Elko a ton of credit. I mean, he's one of the best defensive coordinators in college football. He's got a couple good corners, and he threw some stuff at him. So. So that. That being said, I do think Garrett's going to make a smart decision because obviously he's coming from a football family. He's got his dad. It's not like he's in a hardship situation where he's trying to rush to the NFL to, like, make ends meet and provide for his family. So that being said, where. Where the NFL is at right now in shoot. I mean look at, look at where we're at coming out of yesterday.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Jim Nagy]

With Richardson, with the Colts. I mean you're getting a fire if you get drafted early. Ready or not, here it comes.

[Todd McShay]

I mean Drake May is never going to start as a rookie. Right, Right, right.

[Jim Nagy]

Of course not. Here we are, week five or whatever it was. Drake Mays in there. So, so that's going to happen. So if you're not getting developmental reps in the NFL, why not go back for another year and get him in the SEC, play 13, 14, 15 more games, see the game more, let it slow down and then come out and then come out next year. I could see it happening either way. I don't think he can make a bad decision because I think if he comes out this year he will be a first round pick because there's just way too much talent there and makeup and it factor like you said, I mean coach's kid. I mean there's a lot of cool stuff wrapped up in that background. And if he stays, you can't second guess that either. He's going to go back and he's going to be on a good team and he's going to see a lot more and be more NFL ready because that is a hard fricking league. And we're seeing it with Anthony Richardson right now. We saw with Zach Wilson. We've seen it with a lot of guys. We're seeing it with Bryce Young. So yeah, that will be interesting. That will be over the next like six weeks. That's going to be one of the more interesting things to follow when it comes to the draft space is what is Garrett Nussmeier doing?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, and it's, I think one people like NFL scouts get to know these guys in and out. The human being, the character, the. You know them as the person. And I think you and I are kind of in similar unique positions where like I'm. I'm rooting for 450 guys every year. I know you for all the guys that can play in the super bowl and everyone. But like you get to know all these guys and you want what's best for them at the next level. When are you prepared to take that job and actually contribute to an organization? And so we'll see what that decision is. So that'll be fascinating to watch. I know anytime it's an Alabama player, especially an Alabama quarterback, being in Mobile, Alabama, it's like a different level of, I don't want to say pressure on you guys but like, certainly there's an emphasis, right? Jalen Milro, where are you on Jalen? What you've seen this year? I mean, we've seen probably the same things, but where are you on Jalen? What can you tell us?

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, so, yeah, you're right. I mean, if there's a good Crimson Tide player in the game, that's big for us down here, right? This is a huge Alabama market. So, you know, when I interviewed for the job, I told him, like, we got to get away from kind of the charity invites to the Auburn and Alabama guys. If, if we want Najee Harris to come to the Senior bowl, we got to invite the other really good players. We can't take like the backup tight end because he was from Mobile. We got it. We can't do that. So with Milroe, I'll say this, we all saw him progress over the course of last year. I was at the Texas game last year where he had some rough patches, gets benched, and we all know he came out of that South Florida game and became the starter again and kind of rode it off to a really good year. I saw him throw at the Manning camp this summer. It wasn't great. It wasn't his best day. It was only a one day exposure. So I, I've learned over the last seven years not to put too much stock into what I see down in Thibodeau, Louisiana. Every time it's. To me, it's more about connecting with the players, connecting with those QBs and getting to know them a little bit and talking about Senior Bowl a little bit. But I think with Mill Roll early, what I liked was some of the more designed run and really Jalen having more of an aggressive mindset and being decisive with the run. I think there's, I think when you watch him, there's a difference when he, when he takes off and he's decisive with it. I mean, holy cow, he's different. He's got rare speed. You know, Todd, I was on the field a couple of years ago before A and M, and like you do, I mean, you talk to a lot of scouts and a bunch of guys were in the building the day before and this was the year Jameer Gibbs was coming out. And I was asking guys about Jameer Gibbs and they're like, yeah, he's the, he's, he can roll. He's the second fastest guy in the program. And that begged the question, the follow up, like, well, who's the fast man? And backup quarterback, Jalen Milro. So in Gibbs ran what, 4, 3.

[Todd McShay]

Gibbs was hitting like, I remember he was hitting like 20, 22, 20, almost 23. On the, on the, on the miles per hour.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

So I mean that's, I mean the words rare and freaky, I mean, get thrown around way too much, but that is, that's freaky speed for a quarterback. We're talking Michael Vick speed. If he goes decisively, there's sometimes where he doesn't look as sure and he's kind of tentative and it doesn't look as fast. But I thought he was running more decisively early. And more importantly, I felt like the anticipation was better, especially like the Wisconsin game stands out. There were some throws in that game that I didn't see him making the year before. I thought as a first year starter, and this is no knock on Jalen, this is a lot of first year starters. I thought he was like a clear picture guy. He really need to see, he really needed to see receivers break open, you know, before he ripped the football. I thought this year, I mean, he was throwing guys out of breaks. I mean, I posted one on Twitter. After that Wisconsin game, he was our Senior bowl player of the week. And man, the guy was running a corner route, you know, kind of a deep flag route. And he wasn't even out of his break yet. And Milroe launched that ball. So he was making progress. And now I think we all, you know, look at, look at the Vandy game and the Georgia game. I mean there's, there's been some good and there's been some, you know, head scratch and stuff. So I still think with the tools, you know, he's probably a lot, he's probably ahead of where Jalen Hurts was coming out because I think if we bring Jalen Milroe to the Senior Bowl, I'm not going to get asked by the media if we're going to play him at running back during the week. Which is what, which is what media people ask me at the press conference when Jalen Hurts played, I mean, I think he's beyond that and I think obviously Jalen has played beyond where we thought Jalen was going to play. Now I don't know if anyone saw a Super bowl quarterback or an MVP conversation quarterback when he was, when he was down here in Mobile. I think the Eagles really, I mean, credit Howie Roseman. I heard through the process, like that was Howie's guy, like how he loved Jalen Hurts and credit him for really going up in the, in the second round and taking him. If he doesn't take him there. Jalen Hurts might have been a fourth or fifth round draft pick. So. Yeah, I'm getting long winded on you, man. But there's, there's just a lot, you know, it's not a clean, it's not going to be a clean eval, at least to this point. It hasn't been.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. Can you talk to us a little bit about the offensive tackle group? You know, the two guys from LSU I really like, I think they're talented, but I don't think they've played quite as well as I had hoped coming into the season. I think the same thing is true from Banks at Texas. Is there, is there maybe a couple tackles that you see maybe emerging that could move up in the group? And what do you feel about the top of the class right now?

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, it's, it's a thinner group. You know, we're coming off a really, a really strong year a year ago, Right. I don't know if anyone in this top group this year would have been in that upper echelon last year.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, there's no Joe Alt, right?

[Jim Nagy]

No, I think we, I think we had five first round offensive linemen in the Senior bowl last year. I don't know if any of these guys stack up to that group of players. The. I mean, to me, Tyler Guyton was more athletic than anyone in this class and he went in the 20s to Dallas. Yeah, you know, when he's starting, he's starting as a left tackle. I thought Tyler was a better athlete than any of the guys in this class, so. But there's some good ones. I mean, you mentioned Will Campbell and Emory Jones. I mean, those guys are, they're very different players. You know, I think that some teams see Emory Jones more of a. More of a guard. So if we get him here in Mobile, I think teams are going to want to. Want to see that. I think everyone sees Will Campbell as a left tackle. Trying to think of guys that have emerged. I mean, the one guy I really like, I'm going to butcher his name. I'll just call him Big Jonah down there at Arizona. Yeah, he's a big, bouncy, you know, thick, bouncy man. And again, his ultimate home might be at guard as well. You know, that's kind of where I see him. But he's, he's a super talented guy. But in terms of like guys emerging, you know, I would say there's a couple, there's a couple of small school guys. Let's address the small school guys like that's always been a huge, like, really cool part of the Senior bowl. And quite frankly, we're losing that a little bit with the transfer portal and I. And I hate it. I would say it was about three years ago you looked out at the, at the offensive line group on, really on both teams and it was Fordham and it was Southern, it was North Dakota State, it was Tennessee Chattanooga. I mean, we almost had more sub.

[Todd McShay]

Fbs and guys that are playing now.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, yeah. All these guys, all those guys are playing good players. So it kind of stinks that we're losing that. But I'll bring up a couple of guys. I think a riser right now. A guy that probably started the season in the fourth, fifth round rage for most people is Gray Zel at North Dakota State. There's been a lineage, right. We had Dale Dylan Raiden a few years ago as the second round pick to the Tennessee Titans. And then we had Cody MAU two years ago who was a top 50 pick to the Tampa Bay Bucks. Gray's the next guy in line and there's a lot of day two buzz already. I thought it might take a good Senior bowl week to get him up there. And I don't know if that's because it's the class itself. The O line class is starting to settle and teams are like, man, if we need one, we better, we better go. We're putting, we're starting to push guys up a little bit, right? But he's, he's a good player, you know, and then there's a tackle it William and Mary who's.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, Grant.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah. Who's a really. Who's a good player as well. He's made a nice jump. I saw him at Duke Manaweather's camp this summer and he's a really good athlete. I mean, a seven level athlete on an NFL scale. He's fun to watch, but I told him point blank. I'm like, man, you have to be more physically dominant at that level. Like, teams are going to want to see you be more of an ass kicker. And to put on the tape this year, it was cool. And it was. I'm sure it wasn't just coming from me. I'm sure you heard that from a lot of people, but sometimes you talk to players about stuff like that and you get to their senior year and it just, it kind of looks the same. I'll give him a lot of credit. He's. He's kicking ass this year.

[Todd McShay]

You're not gonna get any.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Go ahead really quickly of you Know the guys that. That there's always someone that comes out of the Senior bowl whose stock skyrockets. Do you go in. Do you and your staff go into the week and say, this might be the guy this year? Do you have a feeling when the guys show up that this might be. This might be the guy that. That really jumps up on boards this year? Or is it always a surprise? Sometimes a surprise.

[Jim Nagy]

You know, that's a. That's a great question, Steve. I think the cool part of it. So, like, right now, we're in the middle of our NFL call process. We had our scouting meetings last week. Our guys have all said their piece. We got the board set the way we saw the board. And now, like I just said, we got off with. With Pittsburgh. We did one with the Bengals yesterday. We've got one with the jets when we get off this. And then we've got like 10 more set up through the weekend till Monday. We got the Texans on Monday morning, but we just compare notes. So, you know, when people ask me, did this guy help himself in the process or not? Like, I'm not just throwing darts or making stuff up. Like. Right. We know where teams have these players. So, like a year ago at this time, Braden Fisk, the defensive tackle from Florida State, nobody had him on day two. I mean, it was mostly fives, some fours. You know, he was super disruptive guy. He kind of created havoc for other people, but, like, the numbers on paper weren't there, you know, in terms of like TFLs and sacks. He just kind of. You just kind of blew stuff up for everybody else. Right. And then he comes down here and has the week he has. I mean, he almost unblockable. He goes to the combine. He looks like a damn mike linebacker going through the D line drills.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

And he goes up to. I mean, the Rams traded up to the 39th pick in the draft. So for a. For a Power 4 player to jump two or three rounds in the process is a massive jump. Like. Like Terry McLaren did it a few years ago. He came down here. Everybody had Terry in the fifth or sixth round. We really brought him here. I loved this. I loved his punt tape when he was a gunner on punt team. That's. I saw the speed. You know, he was the number two receiver at Ohio State behind Paris Campbell. Liked him as a receiver, but didn't realize how good he was till he got here, and then nobody could cover him. He was the fastest stuff on all our GPS stuff. He goes to the com and he.

[Todd McShay]

Ran a four Three.

[Jim Nagy]

Four threes. And so for him to go from the fifth or sixth to the third, that was a massive jump. I mean, no, in hindsight, shoot, Terry should have been probably a mid one. Yeah, right. Yeah, the guy's a monster. So. So, yeah, I think. I think if guys have a good process, they can jump around. And depending on where that is in the draft, regardless of where that is in the draft, that's a lot of money. But when you get. When you start jumping two and three rounds, I mean, holy cow. But yes, to answer your question, yeah, there's guys that we come down here, and I know where the league's kind of out. I'm like, I think he's a little better than that. So hopefully we. Hopefully these guys show out. So, yeah, there's. There's. There's a handful of guys every year.

[Todd McShay]

That's my Internet. My Internet glitch for a minute, right. And leave it up to Mensch to fucking hijack this thing and take it to offensive tackles.

[Jim Nagy]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

Like, we're in the middle of a quarterback conversation, and now I'm talking. Now I'm talking about NDs, William and Mary, offensive tackles. No, real quickly, let's circle back on the quarterbacks real quick. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I'm not asking you to divulge anything here, but we talked about Milroe, we talked about Nussmeyer, who are some of the other guys when we make the trip down to Mobile, that we might. Might wind up seeing that you guys have your eyes on the quarterback.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, I don't think there's any surprises in this year in this draft, Todd. I think, I think that. I mean, just based off the two calls we've had already, like, everyone sees the same grouping. It's just the order of that grouping. And for us, I mean, selfishly, again, I think of everything through the Senior bowl chair. It's a good thing. You know, there's not. I think a year ago at this time, everyone knew Caleb Williams was going to be the top pick. I think this was about the time of year where Jaden Daniels went to Tuscaloosa and went off, and then two weeks later has the historic game against Florida, you know, goes on to win the Heisman, and we kind of lost him at that point. But none of those guys have done that yet. Nobody's really separated themselves. Everyone's had their kind of. We talked about Milroe having some rough patches. I mean, certainly Carson Beck had a rough patch in the first half against Alabama. You know Quinn Ewers had a rough patch against Georgia, so. So that's gonna, it's gonna be back, it's gonna be yours. It's gonna be Shadour Sanders. Really the biggest riser of the group is Cam Ward at Miami. I see a lot of stuff online right now about Cam being a slam dunk first round pick. I would just warn be careful because again, we didn't invite Cam Ward to the Senior bowl last year and a lot of that had to do with the feedback from teams was fifth and sixth round. So again, I think Cam's had a great year. It's been awesome seeing him in more of a pro style offense. My biggest thing with Cam Ward in the past was you saw, I've always called it like the Houdini thing and maybe I'm really dating myself with a Harry Houdini reference. I don't know if like young people even know who the hell that is anymore, but he could run around and make magic happen. And what he did, you know, most of what he did was off script and that was really cool stuff and it was fun to watch and you saw the arm talent. But what I think NFL evaluators wanted to see is more of a pro style system, more, you know, more play within the scheme, play more on time, play more on schedule. And does he have the ad lib plays this year? Certainly. But I think in Shannon, Shannon Dawson's offense down there at Miami's done a really good job playing in the structure. So he has made a big jump, but again a four or five round jump to get into the first round. That's a massive, massive jump for a player. So again, I think we love to do this. We love to just take players and run them up the board and say they're going to be first rounders. And I'm really sensitive to that because again, going back to when I worked for a team, like to hear the disappointment in kids voices when like you would call them on the phone to recruit them as free agents, right? And they're getting a call from an NFL to be NFL team, to be an NFL player and to hear the disappointment and just it should be a joyous time and it's not. And I'm like, well Bud, what's going on? What's you know you're going to be a Seattle Seahawk. And he was like, well man, everyone was telling me I was going in the third round and now. So my point is there's so much false information out there, man. Like again, I'm probably overly sensitive to it. I just hate where some of the narratives on these guys go. So back to Cam war, like, he's having a great year. Love him. Hopefully we can, you know, we'll get him here to Mobile and he can show out, but, you know, they're just running these guys up the board. But that's, that's the group, man. You know, Dylan Gabriel is going to be there. Will Howard's going to be in that mix. Riley Leonard from Notre Dame, trying to think, you know, Curtis Roark's name has come up. Some teams have draftable love for Curtis Roark at Indiana. Mark, if you're throwing a small school name in there, Mark Growski from South Dakota State, probably not having the year he had last year without the supporting cast, but he's kind of a smaller school name to throw in there. That, that a lot of teams see is draftable. But, but it's, the teams aren't all over the board on this class in terms of the. Who they're talking about or, you know, who they're projecting high. It's, it's just the order of where they're going to go.

[Todd McShay]

Interesting. It's a lot, a lot of good information there. Men, huh? So, two, couple more things and we'll, we'll let you roll. I know you're, you're a busy man. I don't know what they're paying you. I don't know what they're paying you down there to organize this thing, but like, if it ain't seven figures, they're not paying you enough and I'll probably get you in trouble for this. But Mitch, you understand, like the knowledge, you hear, right, of all the players that he's got, then he's helping truly, like legitimately coordinating with NFL teams, right? The service that's being done for NFL teams, then the community, then the organization of it. And to see, like, we know Jim, so we're always biased, but like to see how scout friendly and evaluation friendly everything is, has become, right? And like, I, I don't know, it's, it's a different level than it's ever been. And like, Phil Savage is a wonderful man and did great things too. Like, and they've always had good people working at the Senior bowl. But like, it is like, like skyrocketing in terms of what, what, what Jim has done with, for the Senior Bowl.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I love the way you promote the game. I love watching the videos of you going on campus and the guy getting the box and opens it up and he's got the Senior bowl hat. You know, everyone thinks that Jim's just hanging out, mobile, you know, never. You know, it's just watching tape. But he's going to schools, he's seeing kids.

[Todd McShay]

But it's important to Jim that he can be out there and. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Has there been, you know. You know, has that been ever been one of those experiences that you remember more than others? Maybe when you've gone to campus, given. Does the kid know what's coming? Do you tell him, I'm going to be on campus to give you your Senior bowl invite, or do you surprise them? How does it all work?

[Jim Nagy]

We try to have the element of surprise. It usually works.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

Todd, I appreciate you saying that, man. No, this has been. This has been a really fun job and we've got a great staff here. Staff has grown since I've been here. And again, the goal when I got here was to kind of pull back the curtain. And, you know, and I've said this a lot. This isn't anything new. Like, when I got here, we didn't even have tape in the office. So, like, how do we. You know, I call the league office and they're like, well, Jim, we don't give tape to the All Star Games. I'm like, well, how the hell do you expect me to do my job right? You know, if you're not so, you know, it starts there. It starts there. It starts with building a real football operation. We've got 11 former NFL scouts on our staff. Those guys do an awesome job. But it's been fun, you know, it's been kind of fun. Putting a stamp on things going out to the schools is an unbelievable. I mean, that's very selfish of me almost to do that because I take so much joy seeing these players especially. I mean, most of those visits are small school players, right? So, I mean, I really go back to the first one with Kyle Duggar, the Patriot safety. That was my second year here. We didn't do that the first year. I mean, he said in Hickory, North Carolina, this Division 2 school in the middle of nowhere, beautiful campus, unbelievable people. And, yeah, we called ahead and we had it ready. And, you know, the coach, they went through stretch before practice, and then he called the group up and, you know, pulled out the Senior bowl hat and I'm in the background, like, I'm way in the weeds, standing behind the bleachers, and just to see, like, the teammates mob them and everything. It's a little bit like when the. When the walk on guys get the scholarship.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I love that stuff.

[Jim Nagy]

There's a little bit of that to it, but yeah, man, it's fun. I mean, these kids, I mean, especially these small school kids, they, they're going, they're. When they leave high school to go play at D2D, you know, you know, FCS level, they're not dreaming of the NFL, I guess. One other story I'll tell you. Kind of behind the scenes story. I went up to North Dakota State a couple years ago for, for Cody. Ma, right, who. Cody was one of my favorite dudes. He's got the long red hair, he doesn't have his front teeth. He was kind of like unbelievable character. Dude looked like a Viking. And so we, you know, we do the on field thing after practice with Coach Ence and the players are all there. And then, you know, Cody comes over, we start talking and I'm like, man, where are you from? And he was like, tells me his old hometown. He said, yeah. I'm like, where is that? And He's, I got 45 minutes from here. He's like, you know, got a farm, family farm down there, so in the summertime I can work on the farm and come back up here and get workouts in and everything. And I was like, oh, wow, you're from a farming family, that's awesome. And he goes, yeah, you know, the dream someday is just to, you know, play in the league long enough to make enough money to come back here and buy a farm. And I just shook my head, like, knowing how talented this guy is.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

Like he didn't know, he didn't know how good he was. I'm like, cody, you are going to play as long as you want to play in the NFL. Like, you're going to leave on your own terms and you're going to make so much money you're going to be able to buy half the state of North Dakota if you want to, and farm on it. So those are just the cool stories. Like he had no idea how good he was.

[Todd McShay]

That's awesome.

[Jim Nagy]

I think he knew when he left Mobile after he kicked everything all week. But yeah, but yeah, those visits on campus are really fun. We're getting ready to do a couple here next week.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Awesome.

[Todd McShay]

Last one. We'll get out of here with this. We're texting and talking all year long. But with espn, when we were covering the game, we would have these, these calls with Nagy and Nagy would go through the whole roster and I would never do that to Jim and drive him freaking crazy. But like, he took the time and he went through and the stories, like, one guy after the other after the other. And, like, that was always my biggest takeaway. Like, the fact that you get to know these individuals, what their struggles have been, what they've had to fight through, how they've gotten to where they are one of just, you know, 100 or so guys that can come down and play this Senior bowl and get the opportunity to showcase what they can do. And so I. I just wanted to leave and give you the floor. If there's one or two guys that like the rest of college football just to kind of keep an eye on some guys that we could root for. Guys, as we get ready for that final week and come down to M.O. like, the entire NFL lands in Mobile, and we're getting ready for that week, for the February 1st Reese's Senior Bowl. Is there one or two guys with the stories that you just are really excited to tell and for people to realize what they've done to get here?

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, I mean, there's some of the human interest stuff. And, Todd, that brings up a great point. Like, one of the greatest things about being an NFL scout to me was showing up at the schools every day and just hearing the stories of these players and hearing where they came from and the path they had to take to get there and how hard it is for a lot of these players. Frankly, some of these guys just to get to college have overcome so much. So that's the stuff I used to love. And every day was a new day. Right. Like, you're showing up in a different school every day, hearing different stories, connecting with different people. So that's cool stuff. And we'll dig into some of the more of that stuff once we get these guys signed up. I'll give you a couple, like, football stories that are cool that people can kind of follow the rest of the year. For those that watch Big Ten football. I know, Todd, you grew up a Michigan fan. I went to school there. Khalil Mullings, the running back. It's a cool football story. I mean, the guy played. The guy played 22 games at linebacker, right. He's in a back. He's in a crowded backfield with Blake Corum, you know, so in Donovan Edwards.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

And he was the fullback last year, £235. I go in there in August, Coach. Coach Moore was. Was good enough to have me up there in August. And he dropped weight. He got down to 230 to play running back. And here he is, like, his Backfield mate was on the COVID of EA Sports College Football. Donovan Edwards. And he's a really good player, too, and he's had some big games and big moments for Michigan. But Khalil Mullings is a guy that's worked his way up. Like he could be sniff in the third round of the draft. Is the guy that was playing linebacker wild for. I mean, he's run his butt off all year. I mean, you can't. To me, the thing is, he's 230 pounds and he cuts like a guy who's 205 pounds. Like, you don't see big backs with his cutting ability. So that's a cool one. I mean, just to. Just to keep working and grinding at it, you know.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Jim Nagy]

It's your craft outs. And then the other one's Derek Harmon, a defensive tackle at Oregon.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we just talked about him earlier.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, I mean, so you probably know this. I mean, maybe they've told the story. I just know that you know a lot of what I do. I mean, I'm on the phone constantly with agents, and there was an agent that he's. I think he's going to be working with who's. Who's was at least honest with him, like, gave him good feedback. He told him, he's like, Derek, you got to clean up your body. You know, you're sloppy. You need to lose a lot of weight. He doesn't even look like the same player as he did for Michigan State. I mean, I mean, some guys get better, right? Like, there's guys that make a nice jump. Like, this guy looks like a totally different player to me.

[Todd McShay]

I haven't. I didn't see. He's been a shock to me this year. I just didn't know a whole lot about him. He was here, that transformation. 320.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, he was about 320 at Michigan State.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

So we, you know, we grade glass half full in the summertime, like anticipating guys getting better. Theoretically, they should all get better. Right. They're in the weight room, they're getting coaching, all that stuff. So we, we kind of glass half full it. We bump guys.

[Todd McShay]

We call it mercy grades.

[Jim Nagy]

Yeah, there you go. I like it. I like that. But, you know, he was. He was kind of a mercy seventh round grade, you know.

[Todd McShay]

Right, right, right, right.

[Jim Nagy]

Keep him on the draftable board, guys. He's probably going to be a top 100 pick based off everyone I've talked to in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

Like, he's awesome.

[Jim Nagy]

He's in that third fourth round range right now. That's again.

[Todd McShay]

And he busted his ass to get here.

[Jim Nagy]

He busted his ass and he listened. He listened to people. Right? Like, a lot of these kids get feedback. A lot of these players get feedback and they don't take it. They don't want to listen. They don't look at themselves in the mirror. They don't want to be honest with themselves. So tip of the cap to Derek Harmon for actually doing that. And that's not easy to do, especially at that age. I mean, so that's cool. That was a cool story. The Ducks are rolling. They're going in Ann Arbor this weekend. I'm a little nervous what's going to happen in an army this weekend. But. But Derek Harmon's playing his tail off.

[Todd McShay]

That's. That's awesome. And you know, when the coaches get involved, to hear that story and to know how coachable he is, like, that's even another, you know, assist in his grade. So. Yeah, man, we. I love you, dude. Love having you on the show. Can't wait to get down to Mobile Mensch. Mitch, we're going to get you down. I don't care if we got to get you on a train, we're going to get you down there. I'm joking with you. But what's. What's our restaurant there? We went.

[Jim Nagy]

No joke. What's that? No.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. No, Noble.

[Jim Nagy]

Noble. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

I thought yeah.

[Jim Nagy]

Was your spot.

[Todd McShay]

I like.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Now we gotta go to. No, wait, I.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe we haven't been to. No, just. I don't know.

[Jim Nagy]

I thought you'd been there. I don't know. I don't know. You know, things.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Jim Nagy]

Things get fuzzy in Mobile. Things tend to get fuzzy during Senior bowl week too, so.

[Todd McShay]

They do. They do.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I tell people all the time, though. The food down there is great.

[Todd McShay]

The food.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

There's a bunch of places.

[Jim Nagy]

That's one thing you can eat well in Mobile, Alabama. You can eat.

[Todd McShay]

We're going to have to do a show, like, we're going to have to do a show from that week, maybe featuring like the three or four restaurants just to give. Give some love to Mobile. Like, Mobile has treated us well for the last 25 years, so we're going to have to take care of that. I appreciate you, brother. We're going to bring you on as much as humanly possible over the next 177 days. I looked that up. 177 days to the draft. So we'll be talking a lot. Tell Molly to get ready. I'll be shooting her a text for my hotel problems. But no, I appreciate you and we'll talk to you soon.

[Jim Nagy]

All right, dude. Love you too. Happy. Happy for you. See you, Steve.

[Todd McShay]

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