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- [00:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
Welcome into the McShay Show. We have the Decision Maker series that we're going to continue today. We're very fortunate to have Mickey Loomis with us from the New Orleans Saints. How you doing, man?
- [00:31]
Mickey Loomis
I'm doing good.
- [00:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
We, we're doing this because I've always felt like one of the missing components in, in covering football has been kind of the decision makers.
- [00:41]
Mickey Loomis
Right.
- [00:42]
Daniel Jeremiah
We talked to head coaches and the players and there's all. But I, I think there's, there's a lack of information about the actual process.
- [00:49]
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- [01:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
I wanted to start here with you, Miki. Tyler Schuck is a unique prospect in that he felt like he was in college for a couple decades. Right. So he might be a little different than a quarterback who came out with three or four years. But just for we have a lot of avid fans and fans who love the game of football, but maybe don't know the intricacies of the scouting process.
- [01:54]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
When's the first report?
- [01:55]
Daniel Jeremiah
Like if you went into the Saints system right now and look back like how many years when was the first? And kind of walk us through how that escalates as you get closer to the draft.
- [02:06]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, that's, I'm probably not going to be as precise, but it's probably three years ago, you know, because obviously they're eligible after, you know, three years out from high school. And you know, Tyler started at Oregon and so we're familiar with him there, familiar with him at Texas Tech and then obviously his last year at Louisville, but probably about three years ago. And I remember talking about, about Tyler a year before two years ago. And one of our scouts said, hey, this guy's gonna be under the radar. Cause he's, you know, he'd been hurt.
- [02:43]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yep.
- [02:43]
Mickey Loomis
This was before he went to Louisville, so he hadn't had a long string of starts and success without being injured. And so one of our scouts kind of felt like, hey, we might get a steal here as an undrafted free agent or late. And then he went to Louisville, had a great season and obviously climbed up the draft boards. And we were fortunate to get this.
- [03:11]
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- [04:10]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm curious too. So you, you hire a head coach who played the quarterback position, coached quarterback, specifically offensive coordinator. How the collaboration process, Right. Because at the end of the day it's. It's your decision and you have a scouting staff that you rely on and trust that you've put in those individual in place and you believe in your process. How does the collaboration work? Because you don't want to draft a quarterback, especially that maybe the new coach is not in line with. But you also want to make sure you stay true to your process. How does that work for fans that are kind of curious, the behind the scenes?
- [04:46]
Mickey Loomis
Well, you know, I think, I think every place is a little different. I would say this is that I would never bring a player in that our coaching staff didn't want. So we're gonna work out any disagreements.
- [05:03]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Or.
- [05:05]
Mickey Loomis
Any little things that might bother them or bother us. We're gonna get that worked out long before we make a pick. That was true with Jim Haslett when I started. He was our head coach. Sean Payton was our head coach for a long time. Dennis Allen. It's been the same process for us always. I believe in getting our coaches involved. I believe in getting their opinions. You know, we want our coaching staff to have skin in the game for any player that we bring in because we're going to rely on our coaching staff to develop those players. And so if they've got an investment in time and a positive opinion Then that's going to, I think that's going to benefit us in the long run.
- [05:46]
Eric Dacosta
When did you know that Chuck was the pick and did you feel any pressure that you're gonna have to go up and get him or he wasn't gonna be there?
- [05:53]
Mickey Loomis
Well, you always feel pressure, you know, to go get someone. And look, I've got a history, our team has a history of moving up and very seldom.
- [06:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
You're not afraid of being aggressive?
- [06:03]
Mickey Loomis
No, because I just feel like why would I want to go back and get a lesser player? If you believe in your board. Right. That's the principle behind that. But I do understand, you know, moving back and collecting more picks and taking more shots. So I understand that process. But for us it's always been, man, we fall in love with somebody and we're going to go get them, make sure we get them. That was just a matter of, you know, you make these assessments of whether he's going to be available because you want value for the pick too. You definitely want the player, but you also want to manage your draft and use your, use your assets accordingly. And so, yes, there was pressure because we all liked him. And so we had to wait a while then.
- [06:48]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [06:49]
Mickey Loomis
I mean, pick 44, is that what it was? Yeah.
- [06:52]
Eric Dacosta
And if you move up, maybe you don't get a Quincy Riley later on.
- [06:54]
Mickey Loomis
Right?
- [06:54]
Eric Dacosta
That's the thing.
- [06:55]
Mickey Loomis
Right, right. That's exactly right. Yeah. 40. Excuse me. Yeah, sorry, it must have been a long jug here.
- [07:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
It must have been a long wait.
- [07:03]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, it was a wait. And look, we had some, some guys in our, in our room that, ah, they were kind of, you know, maybe we should go up and get them. And I bet, you know, there was some discussion about, about whether that made sense for us. And.
- [07:18]
Daniel Jeremiah
How much do you look at the board too, like these teams don't need a quarterback.
- [07:21]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, yeah, you're paying attention to that. And you know, now with technology we have all these mock draft simulators and you know, we run through 150 of those. You can run just like this, you know, and so we run 150 or 200 scenarios and there's only like one or two where, you know, he's taken in front of our pick. And so there's always a snap.
- [07:44]
Eric Dacosta
Scares you though.
- [07:45]
Mickey Loomis
But here's the deal. You know, GMs are not simulators. Right, right. And a lot of them are really good at keeping, keeping their decisions close to the vest. So.
- [07:57]
Daniel Jeremiah
But it worked out then organizationally. Right. We've seen so many different Ways to make it work. And it. Chuck is in the top 15 pick, like a Mahomes or Josh Allen or a Drake May. But how?
- [08:14]
Mickey Loomis
I think if you remember right, when Mahomes got taken, I don't think a lot of people had him in the top 15. No, no, he was going to be farther down the line, probably closer to the 20s. And Kansas City had a conviction, traded up in front. I think Arizona was who they thought was going to take him, trade in front of us, and they took Pat.
- [08:36]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right. But then you bring in Tyler as the 40th overall pick, and organizationally, it's so important then to support him properly and make sure you don't throw him into the fire too early. But he's also. He's not the youngest prospect to come out. What were those conversations like after you draft him, knowing your situation with you and Kellen talking about how are we going to support him best? Yeah.
- [09:02]
Mickey Loomis
Well, I think in a perfect world, you take a young quarterback and you let him get acclimated and you let him sit and follow somebody else and develop. I think history has shown that that's been the best method. I mean, a lot of these guys that have had a lot of success, you know, Tom Brady sat for a year, Aaron Rodgers sat for, what, three years. Jordan sat for a year, Patrick sat for a year. A lot of them sat for a good amount of time. And, you know, on occasion, there's a guy or two that, you know, start early and have some success early, but history shows that it's just better to get acclimated and understand the league, be able to take a deep breath. There's a lot of pressure on these guys at that point position. And so in a perfect world, we wanted to, you know, give him time to do that. Now, you know, Derek Carr retired, so we were in a little bit different circumstance, but we had Spencer like. Like a lot of things that Spencer did. So we had the luxury of kind of letting that play out in training camp, and we went with Spencer and look, he did a lot of really good things, so. But it got to the point where, okay, let's see what Tyler can do. And he's an older quarterback with a lot of starts in college, a lot of play and so a lot of maturity. So it's a little bit different circumstance with him because of the amount of time he spent in college. And it worked out. He had a great run of the last nine games. But I think that not starting at the beginning of the season was really valuable for him.
- [10:45]
Daniel Jeremiah
Last One for me on Chuck. So I've done a lot of research in the last several years on when you get your quarterback, which is the hardest thing to do in this league, right? And so now you feel like you've got your guy. What do organizations do that would have been successful the next year in the draft specifically? A lot of times we've seen a shift to. You would think, right, like, all right, let's get them a running back. Let's get some wide receivers, you know, But a lot of organizations that have had success, and it surprised me when I did the study, they kind of went heavy defense. The next draft. I'm not looking for you to give me answers on what you guys are going to do. I'm just saying, have you kind of looked at what's the best way to support them and what's our approach? Or is it just stay true to our board and, you know.
- [11:30]
Mickey Loomis
Well, let me give you a long answer for that one. So I was hired in 1983 by Seattle Seahawks. Our general manager was Mike McCormick. Mike McCormick later became the president of the Carolina Panthers. Panthers as an expansion team. But before he was the general manager of the Seahawks, he was a head coach of the Baltimore Colts. And before that he was the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles. And before that he was a tackle, offensive tackle for the Cleveland Browns. And in 1984, he was elected to the hall of Fame as a right tackle. As a tackle, great player. So I say that because that's who I learned a lot about this game and about rosters and how to build the game and how to build a team and what can be successful. It comes from him. It comes from an offensive lineman. So you know what I'm going to say next, right?
- [12:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
He's an offensive lineman. He would say.
- [12:26]
Mickey Loomis
Mike would say. And we would all say, hey, the most important position on any team is a quarterback. We all would agree with that. But he would say the most important room is the offensive line, because if they can't function at a high level, then it doesn't matter how good your quarterback is, because he won't be able to function. And I think the culture of most teams begins with the offensive line because they've got to be smart, they've got to be tough, they've got to be selfless, great teammates. See something, say something, type of guys. And so that's why you'll see the history of our organization. Since I've been the gm, we've drafted a lot of offensive linemen high. It's important to get that room right. And we're building that room right. We've got first round picks at left tackle and right tackle the last two years. We've got a center that was a second round pick and a right guard that was a first round pick. And look, we've had some other guys, some, some worked out, some didn't. But we've got to get that room right to begin with. And that way Tyler can develop, he can take time. You know, young quarterbacks are going to take too many sacks, they're going to hold on to it too long. No different than that. But you know what I, what that means. That means you offensive lineman have to hold your blocks a little bit longer because you got a young quarterback back here. You know, he's. And so we gotta get that room right. We gotta play well there and then we've gotta be able to have a run game and then obviously have a good defense. And you know, we played good defense last year. I thought our coaches did a great job, particularly after Chase Young came back week five. You know, we had a really good defense from that point on and so we gotta build on that as well.
- [14:16]
Eric Dacosta
At the risk of making Todd angry because he said just yesterday he's done talking about this, but it's been a big subject, especially with the tackles last year. Arm length, 34 inch arms. Everyone's supposed to have 34 inch arms to play tackle. You've had success drafting guys with shorter arms. I mean Ryan Ramcheck was one of my favorite prospects coming out of college. Kelvin Banks last year does, you know, sub 34 inch arms. We talk about it in a way of. Does it show up on tape? Is that, are there certain numbers or measurables specifically, I guess with the offensive tackles that you look at and say this is something we need to dig into or you're tape based, character based. Well.
- [14:58]
Mickey Loomis
Look, the thing about measurables, and not just measurables but all the drill work, all the things that we time and test, they're important because we know that there's a range that 95% of our league is going to fall within right at any position. And you know, I tell our guys all the time we're not looking for exceptions because if we keep finding exceptions we're eventually getting fired because it's not going to. There are exceptions for a reason. So we're not looking for exceptions. And yet you got to look at the whole body of work and hey, a really good player is a really good player. And I would say that Again, we're not looking for exceptions that we want to have guys with 35 inch arms and, and the perfect measurables, but they don't all have that. And you know, another factor is, hey, what's the scheme that you're, you're running? And you know, sometimes the athleticism is more important than the arm length. Sometimes the acid mass is more important than, you know, the speed or whatever it is that you're measuring. So I would say that those guys fit all the measurables and accept that one. In those cases, yes, I would agree.
- [16:15]
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- [16:49]
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- [16:53]
Mickey Loomis
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- [17:02]
I'm so relieved.
- [17:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
No problem.
- [17:03]
Mickey Loomis
I'll be with you every step of the way.
- [17:05]
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- [17:37]
Eric Dacosta
Is there one other one I can ask you about? Is the history of the Saints drafting running backs? Yeah, and that's another thing you hear. You don't draft running backs early. You weren't. I don't think you were the GM yet, but you were part of the organization when the Saints drafted Deuce McAllister in the first round.
- [17:52]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, that was. Randy Mueller was a GM. I worked for Randy. Randy and I were there together. We had Ricky Williams at the time and just that was. Look, that specifically was Deuce was a player that we had ranked in the top five players in the draft that year and we're picking 21. I think it was maybe 22 right in that vicinity and was like, just can't pass this guy up. I know we got Ricky Williams, but we can't pass this guy up. So Randy made that decision and it was a good one. I mean, Deuce and you know, Deuce is a good friend of mine now and yes, and my son actually played basketball together at the high school that they go to. But he was a big fast. I mean he's a punt returner the first year, for crying out loud, at his size and two or three around that. And he, as I recall, he led the league in 20 plus yard runs for the first few years of his career. And then, you know, he had a knee injury and his cousin career was cut short by some injuries. But great back. We drafted Mark Ingram the first round and that was a good pick for us. Alvin. We were lucky enough to get in the third round.
- [19:05]
Eric Dacosta
So early third though, we still, you know, I think people look at that and say third. It was, I think the third pick of the third round.
- [19:10]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, early for a run. We liked a lot. And you know, Sean fell in love with Alvin as.
- [19:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
For good reason.
- [19:17]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, he fell in love with him when he went and you know, Sean went to his. I think we had a private workout with a bunch of. From Tennessee that year and Chung came back in love with Alvin because of his brain, because of how smart he was and the things that he could do. So. But yeah, we haven't. Offensive lineman, we've had a lot in the first round. Running back, not so much.
- [19:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm gonna move this closer because we.
- [19:41]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Have a convention that just broke out in the middle of this.
- [19:45]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm curious because you've been doing this for a minute and you've had a lot of success. I actually tried. I reached out to some people who have worked for you and I was trying to dig up some dirt and some things to you, but there's some.
- [19:57]
Mickey Loomis
Out there, I'm sure you know.
- [19:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
But, but, but honestly, everyone just thoroughly like looks back on their time working with you and really appreciates how you've done it. I'm. I'm curious. This with technology and the game changing and everything that's gone on. When you look back to where you were when you first got your. Was the GM 2002, I think.
- [20:17]
Mickey Loomis
Yes.
- [20:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
Okay. To where we are now in 2026. How have you evolved?
- [20:23]
Mickey Loomis
Oh, good question. I don't know. I probably can't answer that. I'm sure there's a group of people who say, I haven't evolved, but it's a good question. You know, obviously we have a lot more. We have a lot more data available to us, so we try to take advantage of that, but it's always just a tool in the toolbox. You know, I say, look, I. We have really good evaluators in our building. You have really great coaches in the league. And so we got to trust what these people are expert at. And yet the data that's available to us can either confirm or contradict what our eyes see. And so if it confirms it, great. And if it contradicts it, well, let's dig a little deeper. And that's the way we treat it. So I'd say that's one of the areas that has changed. I still think it's blocking, it's tackling, it's fundamental stuff. And look, it's harder for. I think it's harder for college coaches now to coach because the transfer portals and the things that these players have to go through now at the college level. So we probably need to spend more time on some of the fundamental things that we believe in, because the game's a little different when it gets to the NFL as opposed to college game. And look, I think college coaches do a great job. So this isn't anything against any of that. It's just our game's a little different, so we have to spend a little more time recognizing. And it's different for every player. Right. What can they do? What do they do? Well, what are we going to ask them to do? And how can we get him to do it better? And. Yeah, but that doesn't answer your question.
- [22:20]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
No, it does.
- [22:21]
Daniel Jeremiah
It does. Because I think sometimes with all that change, some people can get away from their roots and get away from, like, at the end of the day, what's important. I think it's important to have a firm anchor with what you believe in and what you do while still utilizing what's coming along. There's only 32 of you in the world. It fascinates me. Right. And how hard it is. Like, you look around the Senior bowl, we get to the combine and how many scouts, how many coaches, how many people that are aspiring to be in the seat that you're in, and there's something special about that.
- [22:54]
Mickey Loomis
Right.
- [22:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
If you were to look back and talk to your younger self, 20, 25 years old. Right.
- [23:01]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah.
- [23:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
And give yourself some advice now that you've been through all these wars, what. What would you Tell that young man.
- [23:10]
Mickey Loomis
Well, let me go the other direction first. So, hey, when I'm 12 years old, I think I'm going to be a wide receiver for the Green Bay packers, right? When I'm 16 years old, I think that I'm going to be the shortstop for the San Francisco Giants. And then when I'm 20, I think I'm going to be a point guard in the NBA, so. And then when I'm 22, I recognize that I'm not going to do any of that. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a basketball coach and an AD at a small college. That was what I intended on doing. And so I say that because my 12 year old self, my 16 year old self, my 20 year old self would all look at me today and say, you're a miserable failure. You ruined our life.
- [23:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right.
- [24:03]
Mickey Loomis
Look, I've been fortunate, you know, I've been in the league 41 years. You know, yes, you aspire to become a GM when you're an executive in our league, but it's, you know, it's a lot of luck. You know, you gotta be in the right place at the right time. Things have to happen for you to get one of these jobs because they, as you said, there's so few of them. And I love doing it because I love the people, you know, the work's great, but I just love the people that are in the NFL. They're high achievers, they're smart, they're great people, great teammates, you know, scouts, everyone's passionate about their job. In our league, that's, that's, you know, it's a great thing about it. We choose to do this. You know, I didn't choose to be here because I thought I was going to make a bunch of money. In fact, I thought I can make a lot more money doing lots of other things. You know, I'm a pretty smart guy. And yet, you know, we make a good living now. If you get to be a gm, you're going to make a really good living. And a lot of these positions in our league now because of the growth of the league, when I started, there was 40 guys in the whole office. Right now we've got 300, you know, so it's, it's crazy. And we've got, you know, in our situation, we've got a basketball team as well. So it's, that's, you know, the magnitude of everything has changed dramatically, but it's still part of, hey, I wanted to Be involved in team sports because I love the competition. I love having a result on, you know, after game day. And I can say, look, we won or lost and you're gonna feel really low. As you guys know, you feel really low when you lose, but you're not gonna feel high with the winds if you don't have the lows. And so that's fine. You know, it's part of the deal and get your blood going and keeps me going. I'm 69 years old and, man, I have energy and I'm excited about going to work every day still, so. I didn't answer your question, did I?
- [26:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
No, you did.
- [26:13]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Amazing.
- [26:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's perfect. Two more. Okay. And then we'll let you go. I know we got a busy day here. I want to ask. We've had several different GMs, and I'm kind of asking because I think there's, for whatever reason, people are really intrigued. Like because we have 400 players that we wind up whittling it down to from like 1300, you know, throughout the process, I'm told, and maybe I'm wrong. I'm told you're bored. At the end of the day, like when we get there for draft weekend, your board is maybe a little bit smaller, more condensed than some other Jeeps. Is that true? How big is your board typically and what's the, the process behind that?
- [26:48]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, it, it's a lot less than. What is it, 276 picks. How many picks are there?
- [26:54]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
270.
- [26:55]
Mickey Loomis
60S.
- [26:56]
Daniel Jeremiah
I think two 50s, depending on how.
- [26:57]
Eric Dacosta
Yeah, yeah. Supplemental and all that.
- [26:58]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:59]
Mickey Loomis
So we have a lot less than that on our board. And, and Jeff Ireland, who's our colleague, scouting director. This is a lot of his system as well as, you know, a blend of what, what we believed before he got there and that what we've collaborated on since he's got a formula that you got to have this many people on your board in the first round, you have to have this. You have to have this many for your next pick. And, and the formula has never failed, but it gets a little nerve wracking.
- [27:30]
Daniel Jeremiah
What happened.
- [27:31]
Mickey Loomis
We've been in, you know, later in the draft at times, and there's only like two or three names up there that it's a little nerve wracking. But. But they've always been available. So. Yeah, because we're trying to get it down. These are the guys that we want. And the rest of it just kind of becomes clutter. Not clutter. That. That's, that's not the right word. But you get. You get the gist of what I'm saying. These are the guys, right? These are the guys that fit what we want to do. They fit the profile of what we want to bring into the locker room. And these are the guys we want. And that's why we trade up, not the back, generally speaking. Right? Yeah.
- [28:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
All right, last one. And we've had Eric Dacosta, Howie Roseman, Nick Casario, all wonderful. You know, the time we spent with them was wonderful. But they absolutely have failed us to this point. And I'm hoping that you don't.
- [28:27]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
You're in New Orleans.
- [28:28]
Mickey Loomis
Those guys are all really top flight.
- [28:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
GMs, but they failed us in this area.
- [28:33]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah.
- [28:34]
Daniel Jeremiah
I haven't gotten a great story about the spread for draft weekend.
- [28:38]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
And you're in New Orleans.
- [28:40]
Daniel Jeremiah
You have an appreciate. We talked about cochon before you came on Butcher. We just went to the other day was amazing. I think you have an appreciation for good food.
- [28:48]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
What's the spread?
- [28:49]
Daniel Jeremiah
Who's in charge of it? What's it look like? How important is that to you? Because that would be a really. It would be high on my. That's why I'm not a general manager. But that would be really high on my priority list. Yeah.
- [28:59]
Mickey Loomis
Well, I see Jeff Ireland over here. He's kind of taken over responsibility for the spread at the draft.
- [29:06]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Jeff, come over here.
- [29:07]
Mickey Loomis
Come on, Jeff.
- [29:08]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Jeff, come on over.
- [29:09]
Mickey Loomis
But I would say this, the one thing that we did that we have that's really unique is we're talking about.
- [29:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
The spread for draft weekend. The food.
- [29:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Food.
- [29:16]
Mickey Loomis
The catering. Yeah. We generally have. We'll have a sushi day. Definitely a sushi day.
- [29:22]
Daniel Jeremiah
Here we go.
- [29:23]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah. With. And who's doing that for us? Rock and saki still. Yeah. Rock and sake. Shameless plug there. And we'll have another shameless plug because we'll have dragos for the oysters. Charbroiled oysters.
- [29:35]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
See?
- [29:35]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah.
- [29:36]
Eric Dacosta
This is by far the best bread.
- [29:38]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah. And then we'll have just a variety of little Tex Mex. Of course, that's my background. Yeah.
- [29:44]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [29:45]
Mickey Loomis
So, yeah, we're not wanting calories because here's the. As you know, you guys know, there's a lot of sitting around during the draft. So what do you do?
- [29:54]
Eric Dacosta
Nervous eating.
- [29:55]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yes.
- [29:55]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah, there's a lot of eating.
- [29:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
So you guys care. Some thought is put into this.
- [30:01]
Mickey Loomis
Oh, yeah.
- [30:01]
Daniel Jeremiah
See Howie, see Eric, see Nick. Like, this is the answer I was looking for. I appreciate it. So we didn't get more time with you, but we're gonna wrap up and let everyone get out to practice and meeting. So this has been wonderful.
- [30:13]
Mickey Loomis
Yeah.
- [30:14]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Really appreciate it.
- [30:14]
Mickey Loomis
Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
- [30:16]
Eric Dacosta
Thanks.
- [30:18]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [31:08]
Eric Dacosta
SA.