Mitch (5:31)

You got to hit the follow button on Spotify. You got to hit the subscribe button when you're on the YouTube channel. Follow us on the. On our social accounts at McShay. 13 at you. Good mensch. That's M U E N C H. Listen, I need some followers. Doesn't look good right now. I need, I need a boost there.

Todd McShay (5:46)

You're growing, though. I'm watching.

Mitch (5:48)

It's starting to. It's starting to build a little bit. I gotta get back to Marissa so she can help me out. Also consider subscribing to the mcsh report. You're gonna get this, this kind of stuff, this kind of information, and he doesn't take it lightly. Like I said earlier in the last one, he's going to do his best to deliver. He doesn't take it lightly that you're spending some of his heart, your hard earned money on information.

Todd McShay (6:09)

I appreciate it. You keep getting better and better at this every time. All right, man, let's do it. Like, I, I love this stuff. Like, this is we put in all the tape work, we have all the conversations so that we can. I don't know, this is kind of the payoff, the fun part. It's like, all right, now let's talk about it if this happens. So I want, I want to break it into a couple sec sections today. Okay. First of all, at the top of the board. Not going to give away every single pick. Go read the. Go read the report, please. But I want to go through a handful of picks. And, and quite honestly, at this point in the process, to me it's more fascinating. What are the scenarios? How could. If this, like Sliding doors. You ever see that movie? It's kind of embarrassing that I want, but like Sliding doors, like, if you choose this path, this is how your life's gonna, you know, work out.

Mitch (6:58)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (6:58)

If you choose this path, though, it could be a whole different life. You could turn out to have a whole different, you know, journey, as people like to say these days. My least favorite word in the modern vocabulary, your path. Tennessee at one. I don't think there's any secret or question, and I'm not sitting here to trying to like, bait people to go, but like, we're not going to get into every single pick. If you want to go see it, you know where to get it. But I think it's obvious everyone's going with Cam Ward to Tennessee at this choice, right?

Mitch (7:28)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (7:28)

So with that in mind, instead of we have plenty, we've 35 days to discuss Cam Ward, his strengths, his weaknesses. We've done a lot of that before. We'll do a lot more. And as we continue to get information, there will be times to stop down and talk about Brian Callahan, his development with Joe Burrow, what he can offer to Cam Ward, what Cam Ward has to offer to the Tennessee Titans organization. For today, though, I'm much more interested in. Okay, what does this mean now? Right. So now you're Cleveland and we spent the entire, not the entire, we spent about a half hour on, on last show. If you haven't checked it out, go to the YouTube page, Spotify page, Apple. You can listen, you can watch on those different outlets and any other place that you, you get your podcasts. But we spent a lot of time on why I think Shador Sanders is absolutely in play at number two.

Mitch (8:25)

Right.

Todd McShay (8:26)

And real Cliff Notes purgatory with the salary cap because of Deshaun Watson. The, the cap isn't going to change next year. Either they're not in the market this year or next for a big time free agent that can come in and solve a lot of these woes. Right.

Mitch (8:43)

Right.

Todd McShay (8:44)

They also, if Stefanski, the head coach and Andrew Berry the general manager are to be, are picking this high again, if this organization is picking this high again next year and could be in a spot to draft a Garrett Nussmeier or whomever the top quarterback is going to be a year from now, they might not have their job. So there's like a, we got to win enough now and have enough promise for the future in order to have our jobs, but what's also best for the organization. And so when we look at Shador Sanderson, too, Stefanski is one of a handful of guys in the league that can walk into the, the CEO's office with the resume that says, I can do it.

Mitch (9:27)

Right.

Todd McShay (9:27)

And that's what we talked about the other day. I'm not going to go into all the numbers. The 11 wins in one season with this guy, 1110 wins the next different season with Kirk Cousins and, you know, all the guys but pocket passers without great arms, without great mobility who process fast. That's Chador Sanders. That's what Stefanski is one with. So it makes sense. But Cleveland's still sitting there trying to figure out, all right, how are we going to do the winning now? Kenny Pickett is, it's a Good backup. Who knows? Maybe we. We hit on something there, but let's bring him in. But we hear a lot of Russell Wilson talk and we hear, you know, Kirk Cousins. Right. And maybe potentially making a deal with Atlanta to free them up of some of the salary cap stuff that they can't afford, but make it. And make it favorable to Atlanta at the same time with a. With draft pick, compensation maybe and. Or a player. Okay, so those are all the things that are on the table right now for Andrew Barry. The one thing Andrew Barry can't control is what Tennessee does with that number one pick. Unless he's willing to give up a ton to move up one spot and go get Cam Ward. And that would only be a possibility if Tennessee decides to Cambodia's not their guy, which we're not tracking towards as we see it right now. Okay.

Mitch (10:42)

Right.

Todd McShay (10:43)

So with all that said, I want to present to you this mensch. You're Andrew Barry. You're the general manager of the Cleveland Browns. I've just explained to you why should door can work. Now you have your own evaluation on Shador. You know his weaknesses. Right. As Cleveland does. They're picking it to. They pick again at the top of the second round 33. And they also have two more picks in rounds three in round three and 67 and 94. So four picks in the top 94 overall.

Mitch (11:17)

Okay.

Todd McShay (11:20)

Just focusing on the first two picks. Right. I want you to take a look at what. Okay. What do we need if we're Cleveland, we need a quarterback.

Mitch (11:33)

Right.

Todd McShay (11:35)

A running back. Edge as edge to me is interesting because. Yeah. Like an additional edge. It's not this glaring need, obviously.

Mitch (11:46)

Right.

Todd McShay (11:46)

Money on Miles Garrett. They've got some. Some bullets in the holster, but they. In the chamber gun in the holster. But. But it certainly could elevate that defense. Right. Right. I also think linebacker and wide receivers are positions that they could be targeting early on. Okay. So those are the positions. Those are the picks. If I tell you, knowing the draft board the way you do that, that you could have Shador and Quinton Judkins.

Mitch (12:18)

Right.

Todd McShay (12:19)

Or should Door and Jaden Higgins. Iowa State wide receiver. Okay. Or should Door and James Pierce falls from Tennessee.

Mitch (12:36)

Interesting.

Todd McShay (12:36)

But more likely you have my attention. More likely like a Nick Scorton from Texas A M probably much more likely that. Okay. Now on the flip side, you can have Abdul Carter and Jackson darts coming off the board in the first round. You can have Louisville's Tyler Shuck. What would you take?

Mitch (13:05)

I would take stuck and Carter without hesitation. But you know, that's, I, I just, I, that's not real world to me. Because you don't know. You don't know because, you know the Dart's going now. I mean, Mel's got him going nine now. He's a top 10 quarterback according to Mel now. So he's going nine to the Saints. So now you've got three quarterbacks off.

Todd McShay (13:30)

You can't stop it.

Mitch (13:32)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (13:33)

You can't just throw that in and think, I'm not gonna respond.

Mitch (13:37)

Listen. Well, go ahead. I give you a response. But my point stands. Go ahead.

Todd McShay (13:44)

Well, it was the way you stated it, right?

Mitch (13:48)

The.

Todd McShay (13:48)

He's a, he's a top nine. Would you say the top nine quarterback?

Mitch (13:52)

Quarterback, yeah.

Todd McShay (13:52)

Top ten quarterback now.

Mitch (13:54)

Top ten pick.

Todd McShay (13:55)

Yep. I don't think it's totally absurd that Jackson Dart goes in the top 10 given the quarterback position, given that there's, there's outside after shock. Like they're all gambles. Right. History tells us. It's actually history really tells us and it gets skewed by last year's results. History tells. It's like a 40, 60 gambler. Yeah, like a 40. I think the numbers were like 44 in the first round.

Mitch (14:22)

Right.

Todd McShay (14:23)

Chance of hitting on a quarterback. Okay. Like getting a second contract with the quarterback. However the numbers were done, it was in the 40% range, but it's a much bigger gamble after the first four, in my opinion. Right.

Mitch (14:38)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (14:39)

So Jackson, Darren, no, he doesn't have a grade that's equivalent, but I've got him in the 20s. I've got him like 28 or something like that in my top 100.

Mitch (14:48)

That's fair.

Todd McShay (14:49)

And I like him a lot, so I could see him going, I, I, I think that's the absolute earliest and I, I don't think it's likely to happen, but that's kind of the jumping off point for Dart. But interestingly enough, like, if that's a jumping off point, there's a big fall to the next spot, which is, you know, 21 to the Steelers. And I'm not sure that they would even do that after doing that with Kenny Pickett. I think the Rams are interesting late first. I think the Giants trading back in and we'll get to that later in my mock draft for a quarterback. It would be interesting. I don't think it signals, and I'm never here to defend my guy, Mel. I don't think it signals that he thinks he's a top 10 player and, you know, belongs to the top 10, but I did. I did think it was a little rich, but I considered it too, I truly did. Because you got to understand Derek Carr and we'll get to the Saints in a minute. But Derek Carr is they. Yeah, they restructured his deal. He's back for one year, secure for another year. But like what, what is Derek Carr.

Mitch (15:49)

I know, truly.

Todd McShay (15:51)

And why wouldn't you take this opportunity as an organization again? Don't. No one expects to be picking this high again next year. But there are some teams you look at and say it's not likely they're going to be drafting the top 10. Cleveland, to be honest, weirdly enough, more so than maybe even the Saints in my estimation. But carry on. I'm sorry, I couldn't.

Mitch (16:13)

No, no, don't be sorry. I couldn't resist. I'm sorry I couldn't resist bringing in Mel's mock into your mock show. Just too good. So let's just say that happens though, right? Let's say, let's say the Darko's nine.

Todd McShay (16:24)

I appreciate you.

Mitch (16:25)

All those three quarterbacks are gone. So you're sitting there and you're like, oh no, the plan is we got Abdul Carter. The plan is we're Tyler Shuck and the, you know, in the top of the second round, that's, you know, we're good. And then you gotta wait to hope the Steelers don't take them. You gotta wait and hope that someone doesn't trade back in to get him. I mean, Tyler Schuck, there's a reason why he's, he's where he is on the board, which is late first, early second kind of range. The reason is he's had a hard time staying healthy. But if you look at his medical and you feel good about it, there's enough tape and there's enough talent for you to say to yourself, I could see how this works. I could see this kid being a long term starter in the league and being a really good player. And I'm guessing you're not the only guy in the league. If you, if you feel like that, if you're feeling like that in your Cleveland, you're not the only team in the league feeling that too. So I just don't, I think it's a false choice I don't think you can make. I don't think you can say, I'm gonna take Carter and then get Shuck. Well, then you better be ready to move up to get Shuck and you better be ready to move ahead of the Steelers because I don't maybe The Steelers don't do it. Maybe they don't do it because of Pickett. Whatever. I think that Chuck is probably a better prospect than Kenny Pickett was. I really believe that. So, I mean, you're starting to play. Yeah. You're playing with fire, man. So I don't. That's kind of a false choice to me. And I'm taking Shador Sanders in the real world because you cannot wait. You have to get your quarterback.

Todd McShay (17:47)

But let me ask you this question. Are you. And I don't want to get bogged down on one, but I love this conversation. I. Are you. Are you Andrew Barry, who just got the job and has six years on his contract, or are you Andrew Barry in. In the real world, like today's current, you know, climate and his situation?

Mitch (18:07)

Real world, I just. I think you got to do it. And listen, I've said forever that you like, it's to me.

Todd McShay (18:14)

So you're telling me you just took this job, you just took this job? Is that you're the. Let's say Andrew Berry got fired after last year.

Mitch (18:22)

Okay.

Todd McShay (18:23)

But Stefanski's still your coach. You're the brand new general manager of the Cleveland Browns, and you're secure.

Mitch (18:29)

Right.

Todd McShay (18:29)

You got nothing to worry about. Okay? You're passing on Abdul Carter, the best player in this draft, to draft a quarterback that you. We all see the flaws in, but we all see the. The positives, too. In Cleveland, with that arm strength, you got time to build. You're passing on. There's no such thing as a sure thing. I mean, he's undersized. He had the shoulder injury, he has a foot injury that we're all waiting to see at Penn State. So, like, no player is a sure thing.

Mitch (19:03)

Right.

Todd McShay (19:03)

But on tape, he's. He's as close as it's going to come. Pretty close. You know, I get it.

Mitch (19:09)

Listen, you know, I love him. He's the number one player on my board. You're. It's the best player in the draft and you're going to pass on them. And I just. I mean, you have to have a quarterback.

Todd McShay (19:18)

And he's a pass rusher. He's not a linebacker. He's not a safety. He's not even a cornerback or. Or a wide receiver. He's a. He's the second most outside of quarterback. He's. He's at the position that you covet the most.

Mitch (19:29)

Yeah. But if you really want to pass rusher, this is a pretty. Listen, I get it. You're not. It's Abdul Carter's different. He's different. I think he is really a different kind of talent. So I get it. And I've said a lot of times on the show that you build from the inside out and that's how you do it. But I look at their roster and they're not, it's not a pressing need for them to get this guy. And I'm looking at them wanting to be competitive in that division, that tough division. I think you got to take another swing at a quarterback. I just think you have to do it. And for all the reasons you said, too. If you told me that they could go out and get a free agent next year or if they had the money to play with, but it's this not the situation they're in. And Sanders on my board right now, I think is, is 12. I think he's probably going to move up a little bit the next time I do the rankings. You know, I think the more I watch him, the more I have a little more confidence and I get that he's not, not the, he's not the guy that, you know, he's not Jaden Daniels. I get that. I understand that. We've talked about that all the time. I think you got to take another swing. And if you told me again if I could get Carter, if you're telling me I'm definitely getting Carter and Chuck, great, awesome. I would do that. But I don't think. I think you're going to get Carter and then you're going to start thinking about Quinn, yours and Jalen Milroe and maybe they love one of those guys.

Todd McShay (20:48)

But it's the first pick in the second round. You think Tyler Shuck's coming off the board in the first round?

Mitch (20:53)

I. I just don't think you could play the game. I think he could. If you're. Listen, I will say this. A lot of it's the market for quarterbacks, right? And you're telling me that Jackson Dart, who we didn't think was going to be, was a fringe first round guy. Will there be three first round quarterbacks this year? Now we're talking about nine. Because we know it happens every year. And you know, they go earlier. When I see the Jackson Darts going nine, Tyler Schuck going in the first round is not crazy to me.

Todd McShay (21:20)

No, it's not crazy, but I think it's. I think it's. Everyone I've talked to in the league thinks it's highly unlikely. And there's some people in the league that really like him, but they don't they think he's going to be second round.

Mitch (21:30)

I love you and I. And I know you get a lot of good information. I don't think anyone in the league is going to be like, hey, Todd, we're kind of interested in trading back in the first round to get Tyler Shock.

Todd McShay (21:38)

No one gives their information. They give. Everyone gives somebody else's information. You learn that very.

Mitch (21:44)

I'm messing with you.

Todd McShay (21:45)

No, no, I know, I know. I never get there. I rarely get their information. I get right what they're hearing from other teams, which is always an indicator, you know, there's. There's a lot of mind games that go on.

Mitch (21:57)

Right.

Todd McShay (21:59)

The beauty is for running back. You know, you're looking at that. Need a running back. You can address that. I mean, 30, 33, you get Judkins if you want. Yeah, but it, it's 67. I'm getting. I think, I think, I think, I think Ashton Genti, Omarion Hampton and Travion Henderson go in the, in the first round.

Mitch (22:28)

I agree.

Todd McShay (22:29)

I think Judkins is very early second. I think later in the second, we start to see maybe a, maybe a Caleb Johnson, Cam Scaboo. Although I do wonder if there's going to be. I've said this before, hold, right. And then all of a sudden, like, it's going to be like late second somewhere there. And then it's going to go Caleb Johnson and. Or Scaboo. And then you're going to start to see maybe even a little hold after that. But then when you see like an RJ Harvey go, then it's like, oh, shit, here we go. It's a run. Brace. Brace ourselves. It's going to go RJ Harvey, then it's going to go Dylan Sampson, then it's going to go DJ Giddens. I'm not saying all in this order, but it's like.

Mitch (23:18)

You think that's happening in the second? Where do you think that's happening?

Todd McShay (23:20)

No, I think I'm curious to see where Caleb Johnson and Scatter Boo go. And where they go, I think will kind of set the market for like maybe 10, 15 picks later. Then I think it's going to be a weird run of like.

Mitch (23:35)

Okay.

Todd McShay (23:36)

I mean, I'm looking at. I'm looking at Harvey, Sampson, Giddens, Jordan James, Special Tootin, Damien Martinez, Devin Neal, you know, La Quint Allen, Trevor etn, Jaden Blue Yarns. Like all those guys could go third, fourth.

Mitch (23:52)

Yeah. So if you take Sanders in, in with the second pick, you could still get a Good edge rusher in the second round and a good running back in the third round.

Todd McShay (24:00)

Kind of though like Nick Scorton, you.

Mitch (24:03)

Think we're gonna see.

Todd McShay (24:04)

We're gonna see five or six edges go in the. This is kind of my point. And this is why we do the combo picks.

Mitch (24:09)

Like.

Todd McShay (24:09)

Okay, so I'm cool. We're gonna get a good running back. We're not gonna get one of the top four. But we're. If we don't get a running back with the first two picks, we're getting an RJ Harvey or Dylan Sampson, one of those guys with picks, you know, around pick 67, let's say. But I mean, these, these edge guys are not going to last. Abdul Carter, Jalen Walker, Mike Green, Shemar Stewart, Mikel Williams, James Pierce, Ezaruku. I get your boy ads going a lot higher than I think you. You would have expected. Oh no, I saw that stuff later. Okay. After that I've got like, I've got Nick Scorton, I've got Ola Dejo from, from ucla. Landon Jackson. There's a drop off, man, is my point. Yeah, I'm not pumped about getting Nick Scorton at 33 necessarily. There's better players in other positions. You know what I'm saying?

Mitch (25:05)

Yeah, but.

Todd McShay (25:06)

But also consider edge is not. So I. This is not going to be a Cleveland Browns. I already did a Cleveland Brown show today, so we don't need to do. But I think there's a lot of good information in here beyond just Browns. Right. So that part's fascinating to me. Then, then we get to the Giants. You know, how could he have the.

Mitch (25:26)

Third pick and still be in a tough spot?

Todd McShay (25:28)

I want to say this. These top four picks are a puzzle. But this, we got one of the four pieces of the puzzle as of today, we feel like is in the right spot, but we got three other spots. And so if Cleveland goes Shador, the Patriots are in the. Are in their draft room like.

Mitch (25:48)

Yep.

Todd McShay (25:49)

Because we're getting one of the two. There's two elite prospects in this class.

Mitch (25:54)

Yep.

Todd McShay (25:56)

There's two elite, elite, elite prospect, fine. You can say genty three. But like that it's not a position that a lot of teams are going for that early. However you want to do it. In my estimation, there's two elite, elite players in this draft. They're Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter.

Mitch (26:11)

Okay.

Todd McShay (26:12)

If. If Ward goes one and Shador goes two or three. The Patriots are. Because they'll take either of those guys. They need a wide receiver. They Desperately, desperately need a left tackle but they'll take. They don't have any. They've got two elite players that they think they got on their team right now. They don't have any more. They've got Christian Gonzalez who's a lockdown corner who's got a tackle better they got Drake May who's an awesome rookie quarterback coming off his rookie year. So much promise has room still to grow. But they're tracking towards having two elite players now. They've roster's gotten better, they've gotten deeper, they've gotten stronger. Those defensive move. Milton Williams is going to be a really, really good player for them. I love Spillane at linebacker. Carlton Davis is going to bring some physicality corner and is just a good veteran solid reliable corner who's going to help them do some different things blitz package wise and all that. Right. They don't have. They don't have receivers period. They don't have a left tackle that can protect their. Their. Their biggest asset in their franchise. One of their. One of two assets in that franchise on the field. But if these two quarterbacks go in the top three, they get an elite player and they get it either at a position they need wide receiver with Travis Hunter and also corner however they wind up working that out or they get it at the second most important position at a position they still need to upgrade at edge. Right. Yeah. So that's why this is so fascinating. So let's get back to pick three.

Mitch (27:52)

Yep. Who they taken.

Todd McShay (27:55)

Right. There's two parts to it because this is so I went through this because I'm as much as I'm selling the why if Cleveland take my whole campaign this week is it would actually make sense. Even though my grade's not that high, even though I see his flaws on tape that everyone else in the league sees, I see his brilliance in some areas and it fits perfectly with Stefanski.

Mitch (28:24)

Okay.

Todd McShay (28:25)

That's my whole pitch. So if they and the salary cap hell they're in it's not getting better in free agency next year. If they're drafting this high again next year, it's not the same people making the decisions. So like that's been my campaign all week and I believe that like to the core and I know that they're discussing that.

Mitch (28:44)

Yep.

Todd McShay (28:44)

Okay. But I've never once said they absolutely should and I've certainly never once said I believe or I'm hearing strongly that they're going to do that. Okay.

Mitch (28:59)

Right.

Todd McShay (29:01)

So now you're the Giants. Let's look at this at two different angles. You got, again, pieces of the puzzle with these top four picks. It's all this top four. Then after the top four, then it's like the draft kind of starts. Okay. Truly. Then it's like, now we get the whole bag of players in our shoulder, and we walk in. I go, okay, pick five, Jacksonville. Let's start the draft. We know these four players. We know three of the players that are definitely going in the top four. And if it's Shador, we know the four, but not exactly how they're going. So at three, there's two ways we got to look at it, right. The Giants, if they have. With Shador on the board, and then there's the Giants, if Shador goes number two. I think the easiest right now is to start with. Let's say Shador goes number two. Giants are on the board. Now you're looking. This is interesting, too, because I was. I went through the depth chart, studied the moves. They brought in a corner pulse in a Debo. Right. They resigned Darius Slayton.

Mitch (30:15)

Yep.

Todd McShay (30:17)

So they have Malik Neighbors, an absolute star. They've got two respectable weapons guys that can help you. Darius Slayton and Wandale Robinson. All of a sudden, you got a wide receiver group of Malik neighbors, Travis Hunter, and then you're three and four, and that's what they really should be on. A great wide receiver group would be a Darius Slayton and Wandale Robinson. Right? Yeah.

Mitch (30:46)

That's how you're gonna use him. You get. You think he's going to be your.

Todd McShay (30:49)

Number two wide receiver, however you want to package. I'm saying, yeah. I wake up one day, and I go from Malik neighbors to, like, man. Darius Slayton and Mondale Robinson to Malik neighbors, Travis Hunter. I get this. This piece that we can move around, do different things, and get them the ball short.

Mitch (31:06)

That makes sense.

Todd McShay (31:06)

Okay.

Mitch (31:06)

Yep.

Todd McShay (31:07)

You know what I mean? So now, like, that four is like a whole different stratosphere than those three.

Mitch (31:12)

Gotcha.

Todd McShay (31:13)

But they still. But they've, you know, they resigned. Resigned Darius Slate, and they brought in Adibo at corner. So what they. What good organizations do is they prepare for. For everything, and they try to enter. Enter a draft not being handcuffed to what their needs are. But if. If Shador goes two, you've got the best player in the draft at the second most important position. And then on the other hand, you get this generational talent. Oh, and by the way, you got Brian Burns and Kayvon Tibeto.

Mitch (31:42)

Right. Edge Young.

Todd McShay (31:46)

What are you doing?

Mitch (31:48)

If. So if Sanders Is there. I'm taking him.

Todd McShay (31:52)

No, no, no, no, no. If Sanders is not there, there's a number two pick and you're. You're looking at the best two players in this draft. Yeah, no problem. It would be just like the Giants, right?

Mitch (32:02)

Yep.

Todd McShay (32:03)

To be sitting at three and have the best two players in the entire draft. The two elite blue chip. No, not debatable. Players in the entire draft sitting there available to you and you're still pissed off.

Mitch (32:17)

It's amazing to me because it's not.

Todd McShay (32:20)

What you truly need.

Mitch (32:22)

Right. Right. We can't get a quarterback. We still can't get a quarterback at 3. It's got to be mind blowing to them. That said, Carter, I know you have Thibodeau. Listen, I know Brian Burns. He brought him in last year. I get it. Both those guys are super talented. Tibeto was a little banged up. I'm not super worried about that.

Todd McShay (32:42)

I absolutely agree with you.

Mitch (32:44)

You can't have enough, man. You can't have enough.

Todd McShay (32:47)

You can't have enough.

Mitch (32:48)

So go get them.

Todd McShay (32:49)

And now you're in a division with Jalen Hurts, right?

Mitch (32:54)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (32:54)

And Jason Daniels.

Mitch (32:57)

Yeah. And you got someone who can hunt. Yep. I, so I, I can't imagine someone with his skill set getting past the third pick. Dax. That's why.

Todd McShay (33:08)

But you got three quarterbacks that you got to get after.

Mitch (33:11)

Yeah. That's why Patriots fans, I, I think, you know, Patriots fans have a good sense of reality and cannot when they see this, maybe Abdul Carter dropping to them. I think, you know, I live in the area. You live in the area. I think they're like, yeah, that can n. Not. No one's buying it because he's just too good. There's just no way he drops, in my opinion.

Todd McShay (33:33)

Yeah, I, I, I, I. But I think, I think could. Yeah, I think they could go Travis Hunter.

Mitch (33:42)

There's a world where it happens. There's a scenario where, where it happens that Carter goes for.

Todd McShay (33:49)

All right, so what if Shador's on the board?

Mitch (33:51)

Then I'm taking Shador because Brian Dall.

Todd McShay (33:56)

Deals with big, mobile, strong.

Mitch (34:00)

Gotcha. I know.

Todd McShay (34:01)

Not, not big. I mean, has been big with Josh Allen, but even like going back to like Jaylen Herz at Alabama, like stronger arm, mobile quarterbacks got, you know, like, that's what he's. That's the currency that he has. He has dealt with. With. Dealt.

Mitch (34:14)

Yep. Carter's not there anymore. Now you got to go. Now it's between Hunter and Shador, right? Is that what he saying?

Todd McShay (34:22)

I should Say this in my mock draft, I'm. Just lay it out. My mock draft, I've got Cam Ward going number one. I've got Shador Sanders going number two. Okay, if, but I clearly stated, and it's the most important thing I can state, I, I believe this is a quarterback or we're taking Abdul Carter. Can you imagine if you're the Cleveland Browns, Jim, Jim Schwartz, the lobbying he's doing?

Mitch (34:51)

I'd be like, come on, man.

Todd McShay (34:54)

I'd be like, kev, hey, Kev. You only get, you only got a score like 15 to 20. Like, you might not like. We're gonna need 14, but we may only, we may only need 15. I know how we're going to get there.

Mitch (35:09)

You're way better coach. You're way better coach than me, man. You're like the best quarterback coach.

Todd McShay (35:14)

Can't you, can't you get us, can't you get a, can't you get a 17 to 20? Because if you do, like, who's scoring on that? Right?

Mitch (35:24)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (35:25)

So, so the point in all that madness is I think if it's not Shador, I, I, I truly believe it's Abdul Carter.

Mitch (35:32)

Right.

Todd McShay (35:35)

So, yeah, back to the Giants. I don't disagree. I think it's Shador. I, they, they have to.

Mitch (35:42)

Right?

Todd McShay (35:43)

And even if it's air, even if they do land Aaron Rodgers and we should, we should mention because it's, you know, we're taping this Wednesday night. It's coming out Thursday morning. Aaron Rodgers. It's not going to be new news by then. It's still, it's not even new news by now, but the Minnesota Vikings are out of the Aaron Rodgers business sweepstakes, and I can't applaud them enough.

Mitch (36:05)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (36:06)

I can't think of anything less I would want to do then bring that to town. What I'm trying to develop quarterback that I believe in.

Mitch (36:19)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (36:20)

And I know he's got, he got along with Jordan Love and all that. I just like we need, we, we need now, now, I don't know the durability stuff, and very clearly there's, there's an element of concern there or else they wouldn't even be kind of, you know, kicking the tires.

Mitch (36:34)

Right.

Todd McShay (36:35)

But he's out of that market. And for these purposes, that's important because the quarterback market and Cleveland can't afford them, and that's just not even really up for debate. The Giants, though, it really, from what I understand, and you tell me if you're hearing different. It's, it's really a giant Steelers thing. That's what I'm here to starting to get the tea leaves that he could be a Pittsburgh Steeler.

Mitch (36:59)

Yeah. Do you see what Cam Hayward said, though?

Todd McShay (37:02)

No.

Mitch (37:03)

He's a little tired of waiting. Waiting.

Todd McShay (37:06)

I absolutely love Cam. I love Cam as a person.

Mitch (37:09)

He's great immediate. He's a great media guy.

Todd McShay (37:11)

He's. He's amazing.

Mitch (37:12)

Yep. Just tells it how it is, man.

Todd McShay (37:15)

Huh. And what he said.

Mitch (37:16)

He wasn't. He. He was basically just saying, like, listen, man, I'm worried about football. He did make a. He did take a shot. He was like, I don't go any of those darkness retreats. I just want to know what we're doing next year. I want to know who's going to be under center. Yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he said.

Todd McShay (37:31)

You were part of the Grizzly group in a locker room. You know what that's like?

Mitch (37:35)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (37:36)

Like, I'm waking up at 4:30 in the morning. I got mat drills, I've got practice, I get film, I get meetings. And he loves it, by the way.

Mitch (37:43)

He loves it.

Todd McShay (37:44)

He's hurt. Like, I don't like. Come on, man. I don't. I. Yeah. Doing. What are we doing?

Mitch (37:50)

Why am I talking about this?

Todd McShay (37:52)

I get that. I get that.

Mitch (37:53)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (37:54)

Why? Like, I'm. I'm a. I've been through a lot of wars, man. I don't need to be talking about this right now. So. Yeah, I mean, that's what it boils down to. It's what it boils down to. And I truly believe this. Here's what I think I know at this point. I used to love when Peter King would call me to talk through his mock draft before. Before. Every Sunday night on my drive down to Bristol before the week of the draft, it was like we had like, a phone date, if you will, and. And it was always his mock draft. Like, what I. What I think I know or what. However.

Mitch (38:27)

Yeah, it was great.

Todd McShay (38:28)

Here's what I think I know. I. What I think I know is that it's cam ward at 1. What I think I know is that if it's not Shador, it's Abdul Carter. What I think I know is that if Shador is there at 3, the Giants are very, very likely to take Shador. And what I think I know is if Shador doesn't go in the top three, it's going to be a fascinating night. Okay.

Mitch (39:03)

Yep. That all adds up. That tracks.

Todd McShay (39:05)

Okay, so that's. So that's that. And that's why I said these puzzle pieces and we don't have all the answers, but we kind of like we, we got one in and we got two that we kind of know the direction and then based on when we get to four, it's like plug.

Mitch (39:20)

Here we go.

Todd McShay (39:21)

Now it's plug it in. It's plug it in if it's two quarterbacks. But if as.

Mitch (39:32)

It.

Todd McShay (39:33)

Okay, if you.

Mitch (39:34)

I've said this all along, man.

Todd McShay (39:36)

Here's the scenario I think you're talking about. Here's a scenario that I think you're talking about. I'm going to let you, let you cook with this. Cam Ward goes one. Shador goes two. Oh, no. More likely Cam Ward goes one. Abdul Carter goes two to Cleveland. Number three is Shador Sanders.

Mitch (39:56)

Yep.

Todd McShay (39:57)

To the New York Giants. Travis Hunter sitting on the board for New England. Talk to me rapes.

Mitch (40:03)

So Travis Hunter is absolutely worth a top. Like the top pick, the top two picks, the top three picks, whatever you want to say. But this is all about scenarios and this is all about team needs. And I think really what it comes down to is Arman Menboo is a right tackle. Missouri, they just went out and signed Morgan Moses who was a right tackle. You need to know whether Arman Menu can play on the left side. If you feel like he could play on the left side and you feel like he can be a franchise left tackle. And I, I do feel like that. I don't know about the left side stuff. That's why I want to talk to him and I want to see you have a way more glaring need, a way more glaring need at left tackle and you have to protect your franchise quarterback. There is nothing more important than that. Nothing more than that. You went out and signed Carlton Davis. Yes, you need help at receiver. But my understanding is that Travis Hunter is going to play corner and then he's going to be involved in some packages on receiver. So that's great. But you need a, like you need a number.

Todd McShay (40:53)

I think in New England he, he'd be, he would be a full time receiver. And, and maybe you utilize him like some red zone certain situations on defense. I think it would be.

Mitch (41:05)

So you're telling me that Travis Hunter is going to be a full time.

Todd McShay (41:07)

Receiver in New England? I think probably with, with element. With elements in the defensive side. I don't know.

Mitch (41:17)

That's, I'm not saying completely off guard. I still think I see Garrett Wilson.

Todd McShay (41:22)

I think he's Garrett Wilson. Oh, I don't disagree Movement skills.

Mitch (41:25)

I think I disagree with you. Can he be a number one receiver? Absolutely.

Todd McShay (41:29)

That's.

Mitch (41:29)

I'm not arguing that. If I'm coming across that he be a number one receiver in the NFL, 100%. Can he be a number one corner? 100%. Is this player worth. Is he the number two player on my board? Yep. I get all of that. You got Drake May last year. Man. Nothing is more important than protecting him. Nothing. You have to find that piece. It's not in free agency. There were a couple trades made that they weren't involved in. You got to find that guy. Now.

Todd McShay (41:56)

I don't know if you're comfortable with Travis Hunter's a. You're telling me. And I'm just a fan. Now, listen. And I'm not just a crazy New England fan, which there's a lot of. And there's a lot of crazy fans everywhere. And the fan is short for fanatics. Right. I'm a. I'm a well educated fan. And. And I'm looking at this and I'm saying, okay, I got you, Mitch. I like. I got. I got. We're building where you got to build through the trenches. We got to protect our investment. But I want to play devil's advocate.

Mitch (42:30)

Go ahead.

Todd McShay (42:32)

This son of a gun is unlike anything we've ever seen.

Mitch (42:37)

Agree.

Todd McShay (42:39)

He's got a chance to be a Hall of Fame player. Travis Hunter does a Hall of Famer.

Mitch (42:44)

Here we go.

Todd McShay (42:45)

Because Dion didn't do it. Chat Bailey didn't do it. Charles Woodson didn't do it. Nobody's done it. What if he can play 90 snaps in an NFL? You've been to an NFL game recently, right? With all the commercials?

Mitch (43:03)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (43:03)

Stop. Down there is.

Mitch (43:04)

Okay, all right.

Todd McShay (43:06)

No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen to me. I'm saying on at the field, when you're sitting at home watching red zone, and it's a. When you're at the stadium, it's a slower. Like, there's. There's. I know. The college game. There's a. You know, we watch these clips. We. We pull up a game, it's like 96 offensive plays. You're playing like 60, 65. So, like, if you're telling me we can get 90 to 100, that means a whole, whole game of defense and.

Mitch (43:36)

Like 35 England, he's going to play a whole game of offense.

Todd McShay (43:40)

Okay. Then 35 plays on defense.

Mitch (43:42)

Okay.

Todd McShay (43:44)

I'm just saying. Are you worried if you're Mike Vrabel, the Kraft family, Elliott Wolf, that you're passing up on a Hall of Fame, one of a, like generational, one of a kind never seen before in the NFL type of talent with a young quarterback that could use a weapon and, and, and a team that needs big plays, that needs a special playmaker on the outside. They haven't had that like, when's the last time?

Mitch (44:11)

Yeah, I mean, of course you are, but let's, let's, I mean, to me, let's double up, right? You want to do the double up picks, right? You're telling me that I can get Jaden Higgins and I can get my, my tackle, the wide receiver out of Iowa State? If you can Jaden Higgins early second round.

Todd McShay (44:29)

Yeah.

Mitch (44:30)

And I can get my left tackle. Let's go. Who am I getting to play tackle if I didn't get Armand Memu?

Todd McShay (44:36)

Now we're talking. Okay, now, now I'm listening. Now I'm actually listening.

Mitch (44:40)

And Will Campbell, I'll tell you, man, I don't know, it just, I love Will Campbell in his tape. It's good. It's really good. I get it. You can't, I mean, you can't. It's just too tricky. It's too risky for me to take him there and assume that he's going to be your franchise left tackle. Can't do it.

Todd McShay (44:57)

You know, if, let's, let's preface this. If he had 33 and a half inch arms.

Mitch (45:03)

Yes.

Todd McShay (45:04)

Still would be like, I'm not. Oh, you okay. I mean, I guess I'm asking.

Mitch (45:07)

No, no.

Todd McShay (45:08)

I've gotten a sense from you throughout the process that you're like, I'm still not like sold. Sold. But if he's got close to 34 inch arms, are you, are you taking him at four? No problem.

Mitch (45:17)

He's in the mix. I, I, I still think I probably like Memboo more, but he's in the mix. I mean, that's the really debate.

Todd McShay (45:23)

There's a comfort level that he's, he's on the left and members more comfortable on the right.

Mitch (45:27)

Agree, Totally understand that. And I, that's what, that's what the Membu catch is for me. If you think he can play on the left side and you think he can be the left the franchise. And here's the thing, I'll say, are you, I don't think good GMs stay up wondering if I'm missing on a Hall of Famer. I think good GM stay up saying, how do I make my team successful? How do I make my team? Because you think Drake may could be a Hall of Famer. My kids do. If you think Drake may could be hall of Famer, then what are we doing? Because you, if you, if you go for the wide receiver that you think is the hall of Famer and you don't protect your quarterback and he's getting taken the shots that he took last year, what are we doing?

Todd McShay (46:09)

I guess I was just raised on the concept if I can, if I can draft a Hall of Famer as a gm, I might want to do that.

Mitch (46:16)

I listen not. It's great. It's a good.

Todd McShay (46:20)

I'm just saying he's one of a kind. I'm not saying he's gonna be a Hall of Fame and we're getting a.

Mitch (46:23)

Little ahead of ourselves about. Yeah, thank you.

Todd McShay (46:25)

I'm just getting a little ahead. He's got a chance to be. Anyway.

Mitch (46:29)

Let me ask you this. Will you talk about why he might fail? Right. He's going to play. You talk about the game slowing down. That's going to be a little bit easier for him, maybe on his body. I'm saying 17 games against much bigger, much faster human beings.

Todd McShay (46:43)

No, I know.

Mitch (46:44)

Then you got to go and then.

Todd McShay (46:45)

And I'm worried about it.

Mitch (46:46)

Three to four. Also missed games his first two seasons. Weighs 185 pounds. Kid is tough. He's played a ton of snaps in college. I'm not saying any of that. I think it's really hard to predict durability, but it is also something that you factor into the mix. I just, I mean, like, I'm just saying you, I think you are looking to take the best player that's going to help your team. And I do think that Travis Hunter is the second best player in this draft. But they have the, they have their franchise quarterback and they better figure out how to take care of them. And they can find help at wide receiver early in the second. You want control of your financial future.

Todd McShay (47:26)

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Todd McShay (48:30)

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Mitch (48:33)

I was like, I'm an adult. I got stuff to do tonight. I'm not doing one of these like semi retired deals, 18 holes and see how it goes. Luckily, Athletic Brewing Company had reached out to me. They sent me a bunch of stuff including the Irish Red or the Run Wild IPA and my personal favorite, Upside Dawn. A nice little golden goes well with.

Todd McShay (48:57)

A few holes of golf this March.

Mitch (48:59)

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Todd McShay (49:13)

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Mitch (49:15)

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Todd McShay (49:16)

Fit for all times near beer. All right, I'm literally turning the page.

Mitch (49:22)

Okay, let's go.

Todd McShay (49:26)

I want to get to some of these other picks. I, I love the conversation. I there. There's no right or wrong right now because we won't know for a few years and who knows? But I, I do. I love the conversation. And these are the conversations that are being had, you know, and it's not just like, what are we passing on, it's what can we get if we don't go this and now. So that to me was like all about the puzzle. Those first four picks are all about the puzzle. Throw the bag of players over your shoulder. Now we're walking out. Okay, pick five. Now the draft starts. I think it gets really interesting though with the Raiders at 6 and I want to talk about some combo picks and kind of where you can get guys. The Raiders are interesting to me in this. I look at their needs. Wide receiver, corner, interior, offensive line are probably three of their top needs, right?

Mitch (50:19)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (50:20)

Unless you consider Will Campbell a guard and you want to take him at 6, there isn't a corner. I mean, Jade Baron maybe, but I'm looking at this and saying if Ashton Jinty's there. It feels like a luxury pick, right? It feels like we haven't earned a luxury pick, but this feels like a luxury Pick, but is it Beast mode Didn't turn out to be a great player. But. But Pete Carroll was there when they drafted Rashad Penny earlier than people thought. There's a value on that running back because it's. Run the ball, possess it. Legion of Boom. Right. Kind of. That's. That's the. What we're trying to build towards. It's not going to be the exact same thing, but there's. There's an element of that. With Pete Carroll now in. In Las Vegas and Ashton Genti, we just spent five hours, it felt like talking about all the running backs and we heaped all the praise and told you there's a couple things he can improve upon. But by all accounts, it's Ginty and Hampton, top two backs. And if you were to pull most gms and personnel people, it would be Ginty over Hampton. So at six, do you take the running back, knowing that you pick again at 37 and you could have Quinshot Judkins or Caleb Johnson or Cam Scott, Cam Scatterboo.

Mitch (51:46)

Yep.

Todd McShay (51:48)

And take best player available. I also think it's interesting, too. Could the Raiders trade out of this spot? Would anyone be interested to move up?

Mitch (51:58)

Who's. Yeah, who's moving up for. That's what's so interesting about this. Everyone wants to trade back.

Todd McShay (52:04)

Yeah.

Mitch (52:04)

Now you got the. Now you've got all these players off the board. Now you've got the sack of players. So just that concept, that sack of players that are in this bunch. Who's the. Who. Who's the guy that's interesting enough for someone to trade up for? Yeah. I'd love the idea of trading back and just finding partners is going to be tough.

Todd McShay (52:26)

Yeah. Because the jets aren't taking a quarterback. I'm thinking if Shador were to fall, who's trading up? I mean, yeah, I, I don't disagree, but it just feels like Ashton Gente there, doesn't it?

Mitch (52:44)

I like it. I do think it's funny that once you get your mindset on something, I don't think Ash and Jetty can go early enough for you.

Todd McShay (52:51)

No, I'm not saying that.

Mitch (52:52)

No, I know. I just think he's one of your favorite players and you're, you're.

Todd McShay (52:57)

I, I'm. I'm in the camp of. I don't think there's a big difference between he and Hampton.

Mitch (53:02)

I know, but you love both of them. Like, you're. They're. They're both. You love both. And I. And I think you're right. Like this Class. There's so much to like about it and how early they're going to go, and it's exciting to see, like. But again, like, it comes back to the. Do you draft running backs that early? If you're gonna draft one that early, it's gotta be a guy.

Todd McShay (53:22)

I love them. I love them. And, yes, I like getting them off the mock. And I think, like, yeah. And I. And I honestly think the fit. I'm not. I would never.

Mitch (53:28)

No, it makes.

Todd McShay (53:29)

Anywhere. But it makes sense. It makes more than sense because I'm looking at the rest of their picture, and that's what I sat there, I spent. I'm embarrassed to tell you how many hours I spent yesterday after collecting all the information days prior, but I really try to evaluate this, like. Like, study the roster. What have they done in the past? What's the. What's the makeup of this team? What fits, what's available? What are our other needs? Where else are we picking? That's a lot to process 32 times. So I'm like, I'm in it. And when. When I'm at the Raiders. Yeah, it feels like, oh, it's the flashy pick. Oh, McShane wanted to throw his running back in at number six, get them off the board so we can get two in the top 10, maybe.

Mitch (54:15)

Right.

Todd McShay (54:17)

But tell me what other play here if you can't, because there's no trading out. We got one trade in this mock. We'll get to it at the very end of the show. I'll reveal that, and I think it actually could happen legit. What's the move here? Janae Baron over Ashton Jente. Because it's a. It's rare that the running back has a higher grade than everybody else at all these other positions.

Mitch (54:40)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (54:41)

So if you're trying to make an argument for me, tell me a player with a higher grade on the board right now.

Mitch (54:46)

You can't listen.

Todd McShay (54:49)

Answer my questions. I'm not. You're on the. You're on the stand now. You're on. You're on the stand. Yes, sir.

Mitch (54:57)

Yes, sir.

Todd McShay (54:58)

One word answers, please.

Mitch (54:59)

Yep.

Todd McShay (55:00)

Tell me a player at number six, given the way this draft has fallen, that has a higher grade than Ashton Genti. Okay.

Mitch (55:10)

None.

Todd McShay (55:11)

Also, sir. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me a position where you can find a prospect that has a grade even close to Ashton Genti.

Mitch (55:23)

None.

Todd McShay (55:24)

I rest my case, your honor. That's. That's. And that's why I get that. And then also the Pete Carroll, the Marshawn lynch, the value of the running back, what they're trying to build.

Mitch (55:39)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (55:40)

I don't know. I don't know.

Mitch (55:41)

They don't need a tight end. I mean, like, all the other stuff, too. Like, it's. Yeah, I get it. I get it. It makes sense.

Todd McShay (55:48)

Jets at 7, you need. This one's fun. To me, this one's fun. Pick seven. If you're a Jets fan, like, let. Let's have some fun here. Pick 7. 42 and 73. Not a lot of capital right down the middle. You know, you pick early in the first, early in the second, early in the third. Your biggest needs, as I see them. And there are others. I would say offensive tackle, tight end, wide receiver.

Mitch (56:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Todd McShay (56:24)

You're sitting at seven. Offensive tackle Armand Mimbo's on the board. You're sitting at seven.

Mitch (56:32)

Tyler, how I feel about this one?

Todd McShay (56:34)

Tyler Warren's on the board. I don't care. The wide receiver doesn't factor in. In here at 7, you can get a wide receiver like. Like a Jaden. Jaden Higgins from Iowa State. We talked about. I feel like we're only throwing out one. Like, I. I love the slot receivers. Mitch will tell you, but Luther Burden, Jaden Higgins, Jalen Noel, Trey Harris, like, don't get me started on Jalen Lane, by the way. He's become one of my new favorite slot receivers.

Mitch (57:09)

He's good, man.

Todd McShay (57:10)

Second favorite slot receiver in this draft. A third, if you're counting a Booka. So you got Memboo and Tyler Warren staring at you. I've got a higher grade on. I gotta. What?

Mitch (57:27)

It's Memboo. It's got to be Memboo.

Todd McShay (57:30)

I can't.

Mitch (57:30)

I can't go high enough on Membo, to be honest.

Todd McShay (57:32)

Well, let's. Let's play out the drill, son.

Mitch (57:34)

Yeah. Here we go.

Todd McShay (57:35)

Memboo. And then the. The thing is, you can still get a damn good tight end.

Mitch (57:41)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (57:41)

You're picking it at 42, I believe. But I can't guarantee. That's the problem.

Mitch (57:48)

Right.

Todd McShay (57:49)

Because there's two other really good tight ends in this class. And I got news for you. If Elijah Arroyo stays healthy, he's the third best. He's the third best because he's just such a weapon. He's different.

Mitch (58:03)

Right.

Todd McShay (58:03)

Mason Taylor's this the. Maybe I don't want to say the most complete. Mason Taylor's just a damn good football player. He's just a really good football player. Then there's a drop off, and there's no one. There's no other tight end. Drafting in that spot. So then that's when you go to one of those wide receivers or you go, go to a different position, right?

Mitch (58:21)

Yep. So you're thinking Taylor, Arroyo.

Todd McShay (58:25)

Yeah. And the combo, if you get Memboo.

Mitch (58:27)

And Taylor or Oreo.

Todd McShay (58:29)

Here's the thing, here's the thing at offensive tackle and let's just look at it real quick. Membu comes off the board, Will Campbell comes off the board. Kelvin Banks, Josh Simmons probably are going to be the guys that you hear in the first, first round. Simmons could go early second because of some stuff but like I, I think it's trending towards he'll be later in the first and, and pick 42. It's different. Like with Cleveland, we were talking about first pick in the second round, the Giants second pick in this. You know what I mean? Like jets don't pick again to 42.

Mitch (59:01)

Right.

Todd McShay (59:01)

That's like nine picks into the second. You're like, you're mid second round range. So you're not like Josh Connerly's gone.

Mitch (59:11)

I don't think he's there either. Right.

Todd McShay (59:14)

And I, I mean ursary, I think he's about his range.

Mitch (59:19)

I'm cooling off on him too.

Todd McShay (59:21)

Okay, well, so my point is there's a massive drop off.

Mitch (59:25)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (59:26)

So yeah, you get, you get, you get men Boon, you gamble on, on the tight end or a different position in the second round. All right. Then it brings me to the Saints. They were the hardest ones. They were the hardest team in the entire first round.

Mitch (59:41)

Did you want to do Carolina or did you just want to go right to the Saints?

Todd McShay (59:44)

No, I'm just going to bounce. I think everyone knows Carolina's needs and it fits and Yep. I think it's a question which Georgia edge rusher Probably.

Mitch (59:54)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (59:54)

I mean honestly, I'm hearing some rumors about Mikel Jalen Walker. I've got a higher grade.

Mitch (60:00)

When you hear about good stuff about Michael. I'm high on my. Yeah, man.

Todd McShay (60:03)

No, good, good. No, I'm hearing that there's, there's love in the building from Carolina.

Mitch (60:07)

Yeah. Cool.

Todd McShay (60:10)

But Saints at nine are interesting because you got Kuiper on one hand with Jackson dart in the big splash which let's get up with get up and Mike GREENBERG and let's three quarterbacks in the top 10 and like. Right. But then you've got the reality that if you're not willing to take Jackson dart at that spot and maybe this factors into why Mel did it and you'd love to trade back but he's not going to. He's. I'm not sitting there pestering him, telling him he needs trades in the first round. So he's not going to do it until he absolutely has to. And so my. If it's not dart at nine before dart, it would be. Can I move back? Because I don't see anyone. I don't. Chicago? No. San Fran? No.

Mitch (61:01)

No.

Todd McShay (61:01)

Most likely most. You know, Dallas.

Mitch (61:03)

That'd be interesting, huh?

Todd McShay (61:05)

Miami. I'm just trying to think of like one of those like, oh, why didn't we see this? You know, I don't believe San Francisco. I don't believe Miami.

Mitch (61:18)

Tua looks like it's going to be a real shock.

Todd McShay (61:21)

Tua looks awfully happy and put on some guys dad bod going this, this off season.

Mitch (61:28)

Here we go.

Todd McShay (61:29)

I'm joking.

Mitch (61:29)

You're always body shaming people.

Todd McShay (61:31)

No, but he, his history of concussions is, is.

Mitch (61:33)

Yeah, I got you.

Todd McShay (61:34)

And I'm in no position to body shame anyone. But anyway, my point is I, I don't see another team here pulling like the, the Falcons type thing. But we didn't see the Falcons.

Mitch (61:50)

Yeah, that's what's great about it.

Todd McShay (61:52)

Right. But trade out and drag Jackson dart are kind of the first two things that came. That came to mind. But then it was like, all right, what's the reality? You're sitting here. No one's trying to trade up. No one's trying to trade up. We want is a draft where a lot of people want to. Unless you need a quarterback, you're targeting it early in the first or early in the. Or late in the second. From early in the. Late in the first, from early in the second. I think there could be like some spot moves and stuff, but I don't see someone like coming in. And then I look at. Okay, you got Campbell linebacker.

Mitch (62:29)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (62:30)

Jihad. Who by the way, torn labrum surgery. Labrum surgery.

Mitch (62:35)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (62:36)

Now. So now my, my doctor's got to be comfortable and Campbell had coming off the board later. But in the first my doctor's got to be comfortable and I'm just not comfortable. No matter what my doctors say. In the top 10 for a. Now you get two strikes. You're an off the ball linebacker. Yes, I get it. Projecting is some edge rushing stuff too. And the versatility and I love him as a player too. But now you get two strikes. He's an off the ball linebacker by trade and he's got a labor.

Mitch (63:03)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (63:05)

And we're picking at nine, so that's out. So I kept going down the, like, they got like 40 tight ends, but if Tyler Warren's still sitting there, you considering him, that's a possibility, right?

Mitch (63:21)

The value again.

Todd McShay (63:23)

Yeah, the value. So again, like. And I don't think, like, you either like the quarterback or you don't. If you like Jackson Darton, you see he's the guy. You got Derek Carr for one more year. You just, you take. And it's a perfect time to bring in a Jackson Dart from that system, give him a year. NFL verbiage. You know, these are the.

Mitch (63:44)

The turning points in the draft. You can say if you tell me what happens at 2, then I can tell you over these next picks. And then if you tell me what happens at 9, then I can go in this way. But when your mock draft gets blown up, which usually everyone's does, it's a pick here. You could usually tell where those picks are going to be. They could just blow up the entire. I mean, we've done this. We, we. Todd's done a. The final mock for I don't even know how many years. And we would stay up all night the night before, and it was like, what are we doing? You know, like.

Todd McShay (64:14)

Because if you get one bit of information that changes pick five, then you swap for.

Mitch (64:18)

And it's like, right, the Jamar Chase here. I remember being a really interesting year, but, right. You know, you know where the sticking points are. It's just about getting those picks right.

Todd McShay (64:29)

All right, so I mentioned that. I just think that's fascinating. I just want to walk through because. Because the Saints are like, truly a wild card. Because with all these teams, you're like, it's this or that. It feels like this or that. You know, like, we know the position needs, like, free agency. The first wave is done and the Countdown 2. Free agency is done. But with the Saints, I'm like, I just. I don't really know. And so it opens the door for Jackson Dart. But you don't take him because there's not a better option at this pick. You take him because he's your guy. And so if that's out and trade backs out and Campbell's out at linebacker, do I bring in a tight end? And I got like nine of them and my. Two of my top three. Two of my top three leading receivers last year were tight ends, and we just reassigned one, just resign one of them. And our quarterback slash tight end was on pace for 44, 46 catches last year and played in only eight games.

Mitch (65:23)

Yep.

Todd McShay (65:25)

But Tyler Warren's a massive upgrade now. We Got a legitimate one.

Mitch (65:29)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (65:31)

Now is a. Now is a. He's. Now we flex him out. Now we get. I don't know. All right, bear is a 10. Bears attend. How about the Chicago Bears? Ryan polls waiting like, way to get the drill. Okay. Way to get the drill. And that's what you're saying about Drake Bay and the Patriots. But Jonah Jackson, acquired in a trade with the Rams, right?

Mitch (65:55)

Yep.

Todd McShay (65:56)

Joe Tuney, acquired in a trade with the Chiefs. Drew Dahlman, three year contract worth 40, 42, 28 guaranteed. It's three parts of that offensive line. It. You can go line up now you can debate. You can debate left tackle, right? You can debate left tackle. And this is where it gets interesting. So now you're the Bears. Will Campbell's on the board. Your starting left tackle did an okay job, but not, not great. Braxton Jones and pass protection last year, both your tackles are better run blockers than pass blockers. Which leads me to another point. Are we trying to upgrade that left tackle to put two first rounders on. On the, on the outsides, right?

Mitch (66:46)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (66:47)

With Darnell, right. Or are we taking the running back because Omari and Hampton, while he's not Trayvon Henderson's more, more Jameer Gibbs, but Omari and Hampton, for an organization that has that, that has a running back in DeAndre Swift, who. You got one more year. Let's see how it goes. And then I think his contract's up at the end of next year anyway, right? If I've got, if I've got Caleb. Forget even the, forget even the, the Jameer Gibbs aspect of it. And just looking at this team and looking at Ben Johnson's offense, right? And looking. Now, as I just mentioned, you got a bunch of old grizzly vets in the interior and you got two tackles that are better run blockers and pass protectors. And Now I got DeAndre Swift and Omarion Hampton, who's tap dancing in with his 4:4:6 speed at 221 pounds, light on his feet, fresh in his legs, ready to go. And 93rd percentile in missed tackles. Force after the catch in college football last year at the running back position.

Mitch (68:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

Todd McShay (68:06)

So. So here's what it gives me, right? It gives me a number one back and. And theoretically of healthy two top tight backs. Yeah, it gives me. It gives me. If one of my top backs goes down. And every year in the league, like, find me a guy who doesn't go down at least for three, four games, whatever it is. We saw it with Detroit, right? And Gibbs stepped into that role and didn't skip a beat. But if Gibbs had to be that guy all year long, wouldn't be as fresh late in the year.

Mitch (68:36)

Right.

Todd McShay (68:39)

So it feels like a luxury. But haven't they so put themselves in a position for. I forget the word luxury. Haven't they put themselves in position to get another piece to take this pressure off of Caleb William Williams?

Mitch (68:54)

Yes. And I'm wondering, on in Johnson's system, are you thinking Caleb Williams is going to get the ball out a little quicker? Is he going to be a little more efficient? Maybe that helps those offensive tackles. The interior offensive line was the. They had to fix the interior offensive line. That was the goal. And they did that. They have three new starters, including, I mean, the two guards are impressive. So you had to fix the interior. Now you have a quarterback who's probably going to get the ball a little out, a little bit quicker. I think those tackles are actually talented. I. I would give them another year. I would. I'm not thinking that that's a pressing need. If there was a absolute stud at left tackle here, that's clean, then, yes, I get that move that players. I don't think that player is there at this point in the draft for them in this draft, in this class. And I love the idea of the mirroring of what he didn't with the Lions and adding another back. I, you know, to me, it's interesting. I like it. And it takes more pressure. You're not only. So with Hampton, you're taking pressure off.

Todd McShay (69:51)

Okay, I'm gonna rip through these. What if. Michael, sorry, but what if Mikel Williams is there and you say. And I say to you. And I say to you, men, okay, you can have Mikel Williams and. And we're picking at 39 and 41. I can guarantee you. Caleb. Caleb Johnson or Scatterbo, I guarantee you maybe you have your choice between the two.

Mitch (70:12)

Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, yeah. That would.

Todd McShay (70:17)

Because on the flip, because if we're saying we're going to give our tackles one more year, on the flip, I'm saying you can have Omari Hampton.

Mitch (70:25)

Right.

Todd McShay (70:26)

And Ola Dejo or Nick. Nick Scorton, if he's still there at 49 or 39, I don't know that he's going to be, but he could be.

Mitch (70:35)

But that's.

Todd McShay (70:36)

That's the best you're going to get.

Mitch (70:39)

I would pause. I would. I would definitely have to think about it.

Todd McShay (70:42)

You know what I mean?

Mitch (70:43)

I like Campton here, though. I do. I think he's a good value at this point. I love the idea of two backs going in, but maybe that's what's skewing my vision here a little bit or skewing my thought process.

Todd McShay (70:51)

Here's the other thing you could do. No, no, listen to me, listen to me. Here's the other thing you could do. If your polls. You could take Mikel Williams here, right, and not need. Not need, because he's developing. Not need him to be a star right away, but bring, you know, 30, whatever it is, put him in a role that helps him develop. He's an asset. But he doesn't have to be the. The guy right then at 39. Or. Or maybe you have to use a fourth or something to move up a little bit. You go get Josh Connerly and he's not ready yet necessarily, but he's depth, he's depth, he's athletic. And now you got one year to see if you're left tackle and maybe trade him or however that works out.

Mitch (71:41)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (71:41)

But to work, get Connor Lee stronger so he's a better pass protecting left tackle for the future. And then at 41, you go get Cam Scatter.

Mitch (71:50)

I like that. I like that.

Todd McShay (71:53)

All right, Mitch. All right. Yeah, I like it, too. But. But this is. This is. These are the conversations that they're not having it right now. I. I should say we're only doing it because we're doing a mock draft. These are the conversations when the hay's in the barn, as everyone in the league likes to say. When the board set it, it becomes scenario time. Phone conversation. Especially that last week. Man, I can't tell. The weekend before the draft is when I talk to the most people because it's like, yeah, all right. You know? All right. I want to get to two quick things. One, what other picks stand out to you? Feel free.

Mitch (72:29)

It's actually a pick you didn't make. I. I went through it a few times. Maybe I'm missing it.

Todd McShay (72:35)

Yeah.

Mitch (72:36)

Where did a Mecca Puka go in the first round? I couldn't. Did I miss it? You. You gasped when I suggested that he was a second round guy.

Todd McShay (72:47)

I'm blaming the editor. I did it for you, Mitch. I did it for you.

Mitch (72:51)

Yeah. Are you gonna say you made a mistake? I would love for that, too. Either way, I would.

Todd McShay (72:56)

I did not make a mistake. I purposely gave you a Christmas gift, and in March.

Mitch (73:01)

Oh, here we go. Unbelievable. I'll tell you one of the picks I loved. I'll give you some props.

Todd McShay (73:05)

It gets interesting because there's A lot of teams that need a lot of the same things. And it's not wide receiver late, it's corner, it's offensive line and it's defensive line. Not shocking, but it's a lot of corners. O line, D line late. And so I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, Mench is going to roast me.

Mitch (73:27)

Right.

Todd McShay (73:27)

But I'm not going to mess around my board just to shove a mecca buka in at Kansas City when they. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

Mitch (73:35)

Can we say how many receivers went in the first?

Todd McShay (73:37)

Yeah, sure.

Mitch (73:38)

Two, right?

Todd McShay (73:39)

Yep.

Mitch (73:40)

Saw two. That's a. That's happened in 2018 and 2019. But that's. That's a low number, man. Two wide receivers to go in the first. Yeah, and I don't think it'll happen.

Todd McShay (73:49)

I. I don't think it'll happen, but.

Mitch (73:51)

Right. I agree with you. But that was something that jumped out to me here. I mean, this is a low number.

Todd McShay (73:55)

When you have three running backs. Go ahead. Anything else?

Mitch (73:59)

The corner group's good, man. I like the corner. And you start looking at it. Thomas, the kid from Florida State, I won't say where he goes, but I think he deserves to go in the first round. His tape's really good, man. He's there. Yeah, he's in there. So, I mean, when you start looking at that core, there's some corners that I think could still go in the first round that aren't in the first round. It's a good group. I really like the corner group, so that's going to push some receivers back, too. One pick I really liked. You're not going to guess it. Seattle. Seattle takes safety Nick Emo worry from South Carolina. Your logic, though, is what really makes it great. Right?

Todd McShay (74:31)

Thank you.

Mitch (74:32)

Mike McDonald was at Baltimore, had Kyle Ham Hamilton, who was also a very tall safety who was turned into, you know, an all world player. I love that. I love the idea of Mike McDonald getting a Kyle Hamilton type player there.

Todd McShay (74:46)

I. I turned it in late last night.

Mitch (74:49)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (74:50)

I woke up this morning before I got out of bed, scrolling around and I saw Eamon worry making visit today to Seattle.

Mitch (75:00)

Oh, no way.

Todd McShay (75:01)

Interesting, right?

Mitch (75:02)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (75:03)

It means absolutely nothing. He's probably visiting 10 to 15 teams, whatever it is. But it just, you know, it was like a sign, which. It was a sign. All right, last thing. We got to get rolling. Got to get out of here.

Mitch (75:15)

So many more, but go ahead.

Todd McShay (75:16)

I know. Go.

Mitch (75:19)

No, you got to cut me off at some point. We could do this all Night.

Todd McShay (75:22)

You gotta Google. It's the McShay report. Please, like get involved, man. We got six weeks and the week after in the way too early mock draft. I don't know if that counts. I haven't talked to accounting. I don't know if the $4 covers that or if we're on to 20, 26. So you might as well double down. You gotta double down. Last thing I promised it. Trade. I made one trade in this.

Mitch (75:44)

I love that.

Todd McShay (75:45)

There could be more. I made one trade in here and I tried to pick the right spot. I'm telling you right now, I feel very, very strongly that if the New York Giants do not draft a quarterback at three, whether it's Shador going at two or day ball just says that's not my guy at three, that they're moving back into the first round, they're going to try to get aggressive to get Jackson dart. Now if he goes like Kuiper's got him going number nine, then yeah, they're, they're out of luck. But I do believe a team will move in. I think it will be. I think the best chance, as I look at, look at it right now, would be with the Giants, given their circumstances, the win now, hope for the future, all of that. I put him up from 34. Yeah, 34 to 19 with the Tampa Bay Bucks. I was looking at Tampa Bay, it's like, yeah, they got a linebacker knee, like they have needs, but they're better off moving back. So I gave the bucks moving from 19 to 34 and I'm going to Bucks fans. I'm with you, man. I was at a Bucks game a couple of years ago. My son's a huge Buccaneers fan. Thought it was just Tom Brady. He's a Bucs fan. He's a Baker Mayfield lunatic. So I feel you move the bucks down to 34. Gave them a pick. Plus in compensation, I gave him picks, 34, 65, which is the first pick in the third round. So that's valuable. That's basically an extension of the second round especially and a third rounder next year. I went and studied the compensation. That's about what you would get. So you move back 15 spots, you're getting like pretty same type of player at 34.

Mitch (77:25)

Damn good player at 34, man. That is a damn good player to get at 34. I won't give the name.

Todd McShay (77:29)

You know who I gave him at 34?

Mitch (77:31)

You gonna say it?

Todd McShay (77:32)

Tre Amos.

Mitch (77:34)

I mean, he's a guy that could sneak in if you get him at 34i cornerback out of Ole Miss.

Todd McShay (77:39)

Corner out of Ole Miss. So that, that gives you a situation where you get Trey Umos at 34. It's not much better than you're getting in 19.

Mitch (77:46)

Nope.

Todd McShay (77:47)

Right. And, and now we've got an. We got pick s the first pick in the third round and we got a third next year. So. Yeah, keeping it rolling there for Jason Light. And I could see Jason making a deal like that.

Mitch (77:58)

Yeah, and it's realistic, too, he could end up getting.

Todd McShay (78:00)

Because we'll see what happens with Pittsburgh in the quarterback position. I don't know that Denver's going to move out of that spot. Maybe they would, but I, I, you got to get ahead of Pittsburgh.

Mitch (78:11)

It was a good trade.

Todd McShay (78:12)

I liked it and I gave the Giants. I guess that's, that's the highlight of all this. I had the Giants moving up for Jackson Dart. I, I, I couldn't go as high as 9, so I went to 19.

Mitch (78:24)

Like it? It's good. Mock, man, starting to get your mojo back. Your swagger.

Todd McShay (78:31)

I'm feeling it, baby. I'm feeling it. I'm literally going to click off of this and go, I've got wide receivers to finish up. We're back on Monday, Mondays and Thursdays. That's a rotation until that last week of the draft. And we're going to be with you every day. We're going to absolutely wear you down. And we're have Monday morning, Monday night, Tuesday, Wednesday live show. Thursday or live show. Maybe Wednesday night with a live audience. We're working on it. We'll see how it happens. Conor's biting his hand, wants to punch me right now for even throwing it out there. Dangle it, baby. Dangle it. Thursday draft, all sorts of plans. We had a lot of. And I can't wait to tell you what men and I are doing on day three of the draft this year. You're not going to believe it. Oh, it's going to be a blast. I can't wait. Anyway, Mondays and Thursdays, you please subscribe. Stay with us, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Mondays and Thursdays is where you can find. When you can find us. And Google the McShay report as mentioned. Told you. And I've told you. I mean, we need you here and we're glad to have you. Appreciate it. We'll see you on Monday. Have an awesome weekend, men. Love you, brother.

Mitch (79:38)

You, too.

Todd McShay (79:39)

Keep up the good work. I know you're in the weeds. I can tell.

Mitch (79:41)

Yeah, I can tell.

Todd McShay (79:41)

Yeah, I see it in your eyes, you're on like. Yeah, it's good. I'm gonna give you the type of player that Mention is working on right now. If my phone will unlock. It always does this. It's perfect way to end. And everyone's getting ready to go. Everyone's mad at me. I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you three names that Mensch could be working on right now. You ready?

Mitch (80:00)

Interesting. I've.

Todd McShay (80:01)

I've got Mensch depending on the position. We get wide receivers coming up, but I'm going to give you. Yeah, I'm gonna say he's working on a. A player the caliber of a Robert Longer beam, Rutgers corner. We're not laughing at you. We're just. We're laughing.

Mitch (80:19)

No, no, no, no, no.

Todd McShay (80:20)

Right, Robert.

Mitch (80:20)

That's where we are.

Todd McShay (80:22)

I could see we're done with the running backs. We get tight ends coming up. I could see him grinding out some. Some Maliki Motavo, the UCLA tight end and at wide receiver as he preps for our Monday show where we're going to do our Ricky White. Yeah, that with that four. That four six, one, four zero from unlv. I could see you on Ricky White. I could see you on Kanata Mumfield from Pittsburgh. Four, five, nine.

Mitch (80:55)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (80:56)

Session number five. Trying to hang on. That's the catch guy.

Mitch (80:59)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (80:59)

That's where Mention is right now. I see it in his eyes. We'll see you guys on Monday.

Mitch (81:03)

Thanks, man.

Todd McShay (81:04)

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