News or Noise, and Todd’s Final Big Board! Plus, Talking Draft Day With Richmond Spider Legend Joe Douglas.

Summary

The McShay Show Episode Summary: "News or Noise, and Todd’s Final Big Board! Plus, Talking Draft Day With Richmond Spider Legend Joe Douglas"
Release Date: April 23, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this eagerly anticipated episode of The McShay Show, NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay delves deep into the latest draft rumors, presents his final big board of top 300 prospects, and engages in a compelling conversation with Joe Douglas, the legendary general manager of the Richmond Spiders. The episode, released on April 23, 2025, sets the stage for an intense draft season with insightful analysis and insider perspectives.

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2. News or Noise: Analyzing Draft Rumors and Potential Trades

Lack of First-Round Trades
Todd McShay kicks off the episode by addressing the unprecedented situation where no trades have occurred in the first round of the NFL Draft up to the first night. At [02:48], he remarks,

"It's the longest in NFL draft history without a trade being made in the first round before we got to the first night of the draft."

Potential Movement Around the Number Two Pick
McShay discusses the swirling rumors about teams attempting to move up for Travis Hunter, one of the top prospects. He notes the increasing "noise" not just from the media but within NFL front offices as teams like Dallas and Cleveland show interest.

"There's a lot of noise... Calls are being made... it's like something's about to happen." [03:55]

Team-Specific Analysis

• Dallas Cowboys: McShay speculates that Dallas, led by Jerry Jones, might be maneuvering to trade up, stating,

  "It just screams Dallas to me." [06:05]

• Cleveland Browns: He expresses skepticism about Cleveland moving up, questioning,

  "Why would Cleveland even entertain?" [09:06]

• Other Teams: McShay analyzes the draft positions of teams like Buffalo, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, and Seattle, assessing their potential to trade based on their current picks and needs.

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3. Todd’s Final Big Board: Top 300 Draft Prospects

Overview of the Final Rankings
Todd McShay proudly presents his finalized top 300 draft board, emphasizing his confidence in its accuracy and depth. He shares,

"This board is my baby. My baby." [40:09]

Quarterbacks and Defensive Prospects
McShay highlights key quarterbacks like Jackson Dart and Shador Sanders. He explains his preference for Dart, stating,

"If all things were equal, schematically, I'm taking Jackson Dart over Shador Sanders." [43:33]

Offensive Linemen Evaluations
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on offensive tackles, with McShay predicting that three tackles will be selected in the top 13 picks. He praises prospects like Will Campbell and Josh Simmons for their athleticism and potential, while also addressing concerns about arm length and versatility.

"Will Campbell from LSU tackle, maybe moving into guard... he's an absolute dog of a football player." [65:22]

Tight Ends Analysis
McShay contrasts two tight ends: Mason Taylor and Elijah Arroyo. He favors Taylor for his durability and reliability, despite recognizing Arroyo's upside.

"I absolutely love Elijah Arroyo... but with Mason Taylor, there's more upside." [48:14]

Controversial Picks and Surprises
He discusses unexpected rankings, such as Ted Arroyo McMillan ending up at 50 and Mason Taylor at 28, reflecting on the tough decisions made to fit his board's integrity.

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4. In-Depth Analysis of Draft Prospects

Quarterback Decision-Making
The debate between selecting Jackson Dart or Shador Sanders is central to McShay's final board. He argues that Dart better fits the systems of teams like the New Orleans Saints and Cleveland Browns, while Sanders would be ideal for coaches like Kevin Stefanski.

"If all things were equal, schematically, I'm taking Jackson Dart over Shador Sanders." [43:39]

Offensive Line Strengths and Weaknesses
Discussion revolves around the depth of the offensive tackle class, with emphasis on players' physical attributes and adaptability to different team schemes. McShay underscores the importance of versatility and blocking ability in prospects like Will Campbell.

"He can dig all of his cleats in the ground against the bull rush." [65:43]

Tight End Preferences
McShay explains his strategic choice between Mason Taylor and Elijah Arroyo, balancing consistency with potential upside.

"Mason Taylor is durable, consistent, and reliable... There's more upside with Arroyo." [48:53]

Defensive Linemen Insights
While the focus is primarily on offensive positions, McShay touches upon the strong defensive tackle class, expressing high regard for prospects like Walter Nolan.

"The defensive tackle class is one of the best and it's going to be very impactful." [51:20]

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5. Upcoming Events and Final Thoughts

Live Stream with Joe Douglas
Todd McShay announces an upcoming live stream featuring Joe Douglas, scheduled for draft day, where they will provide real-time analysis and reactions.

"Join us Thursday night for an absolute blast with a great guest coming." [05:26]

Final Mock Draft Reveal
McShay emphasizes the importance of his final mock draft and encourages listeners to tune in for the reveal, promising an enriched experience with insider information.

"Final mock draft tomorrow. Don't forget about that." [55:29]

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6. Personal Stories and Anecdotes

Conversation with Joe Douglas
A significant segment features an engaging discussion between McShay, Mitch, and Joe Douglas. They reminisce about their time at the University of Richmond, sharing humorous and heartfelt stories about teammates like Elio and Jasper Wyman. Douglas reflects on the challenges and camaraderie during their college days, highlighting the unique personalities that shaped their careers.

"Elio refused to conform... we were all trying to figure out what we were going to do in life." [72:21]

Joe Douglas’s Career Insights
Douglas provides valuable insights into the role of a general manager during draft season, explaining the strategic groundwork involved in trade negotiations and player evaluations. He details the meticulous process of preparing for trades and ensuring team needs are met without compromising on key positions.

"You're walking ownership through that... making sure there's no surprises." [58:38]

Humorous Exchanges and Bonding
The conversation takes a lighthearted turn as McShay and Douglas share amusing anecdotes about their past experiences, including Douglas’s cameo in a Keanu Reeves film and their adventures in Richmond. These personal stories add depth to the discussion, showcasing the camaraderie and mutual respect between the guests.

"We could do a whole series, like years of it." [73:12]

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7. Conclusion

Todd McShay wraps up the episode by reiterating the excitement leading up to the NFL Draft, urging listeners to stay tuned for the live stream and final mock draft reveals. He expresses gratitude towards Joe Douglas for sharing his invaluable perspectives and shares a heartfelt farewell, looking forward to the upcoming draft events.

"We're gonna have a good time... Can't wait to see what you're doing next." [79:28]

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Notable Quotes:

• Todd McShay:

  • "It's the longest in NFL draft history without a trade being made in the first round before we got to the first night of the draft." [02:48]
  • "This board is my baby. My baby." [40:09]
  • "If all things were equal, schematically, I'm taking Jackson Dart over Shador Sanders." [43:33]

• Joe Douglas:

  • "Josh Simmons is a freak athlete... he's really gifted." [64:12]
  • "Elio refused to conform... we were all trying to figure out what we were going to do in life." [72:21]

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This episode of The McShay Show offers an in-depth look into the NFL Draft's current landscape, combining expert analysis with personal stories to provide a comprehensive and engaging experience for listeners. Whether you're a die-hard football enthusiast or a casual fan, Todd McShay's final big board and conversation with Joe Douglas deliver valuable insights and entertainment as draft day approaches.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

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[Mitch]

Can't wait.

[Todd McShay]

Honest to goodness, one of my favorite human beings in the entire world, and I know he's one of yours, too. Joe Douglas is joining us today. Chuck, play me some music, man. Whoa, whoa. Mitch, are you good?

[Mitch]

I'm great, man.

[Todd McShay]

Now talk. Play me some music. I. I sense it. I feel something that, like, I talked to someone who, like, knows everything recently and they're like, I just get the feeling. Brace for it, because this is. This is the longest in NFL draft history. Correct me if I'm wrong. The longest we've gone. NFL draft history. Without a trade being made in the first round before we got to the first night of the draft.

[Mitch]

I think that's right.

[Todd McShay]

So it's been like, okay. And I, like, all of a sudden, there's, like, these whispers. I get a text today. We're getting ready to get in the car. Mensch is waiting for me. He's got the car pulled up. I drive. I drive because I don't trust his driving. And 15 minutes later, I come strolling down, and we're late, and I'm taping with Big Cat and PMT because I got a text and then a phone call, and people are trying to figure out what's going on at the top of this board. It's a lock. Cam Ward's going number one. Right. But there's been a lot of noise. And now the noise isn't just outside with the media. The noise is. Is everywhere. It's. Phone calls are being made. That number two pick is someone trying to move up. Apparently, there's a team out there that is, like, Travis Hunter crazy. And we'll talk to Joe Douglas later on in the show. Okay. And we'll. We'll ask him about the process. And we obviously know some stuff, but I wanted. I want someone who sat one of 32 people to sit in that chair as a general manager and want to know what the process is. But I can tell you, like, calls are being made now, and I'm just. I'm curious because I feel like something's about to happen.

[Mitch]

Maybe that movie Twister.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mitch]

Before, like, the storms come. Like, the. They show the wind chimes, and they start to just go a little bit.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

It feels like that's what's happening.

[Todd McShay]

The wildlife. Like, there's no.

[Mitch]

Right, right, right. It gets quiet. There's no birds chirping, and some, you know, something's coming.

[Todd McShay]

Something's coming. And so here we are. It's. It's Tuesday draft week. Top three hundreds out today. Mock reveals tomorrow.

[Mitch]

Can't wait.

[Todd McShay]

If you're, like. If you don't subscribe to the McShay Report, we. We would like for you to subscribe. We'll put it that way. You can subscribe for free, but I'd suggest you. It's one buck, one buck. Draft. Pass. Get through. Draft.

[Mitch]

The run to the podium. Is that right?

[Todd McShay]

Sprint to the podium.

[Mitch]

Sprint to the podium.

[Todd McShay]

So, yeah, the McShay report. We've got the top three hundreds out right now. Mock draft is tomorrow, the mock reveal. And. And then we've got. We've Got the draft. Thursday night live stream. We're rolling. But, like, I don't even have time for all this promo stuff. You're here, you'll be here. You're with us. By the way, the live stream is going to be an absolute blast. We have a great guest coming. At least one we got a lot of. It's going to be awesome. Hour before 7pm Eastern time with us the entire night. Okay. We're going to go through the entire draft. Like, we've been ahead on everything. We've been ahead on Shador, been ahead on the Giant stuff. We've been ahead on. On the quarterbacks. Like, we've been trying to tell you ahead of time because I don't have any constraints anymore. Mensch.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Like, we've been trying to get you, so, like, might as well ride it out with us. So we'll see you Thursday night. I'm interested now. I'm truly interested. I don't think Cleveland's going to trade out of this pick, but something big is coming down the pipe because too many people are now kind of.

[Mitch]

Who's the team? Which team is it? I. I'm dying to know.

[Todd McShay]

Everyone wants to say Dallas and Jerry Jones made the comments that I'm. Something vague around. Like, we're going to be making a move for a player before or after the draft. Like, okay, I could see Dallas. It would make a ton of sense, right?

[Mitch]

A ton of sense, both in terms of need, personality.

[Todd McShay]

Hell of a lot better than sticking at 12 and taking Tet. McMillan, if he's there, don't think he's going to be. We'll get to that in a minute. But. But he could be. Or Matthew golden, who I love, but I don't love him. Like, I love Travis Hunter and then getting a cornerback with it. Who else?

[Mitch]

Like, who else could it be? It just screams Dallas to me. Maybe I just have blinders on. I just think it's Dallas. Could it be like, you know, San Francisco maybe trying to make that move? That would be. That would seem strange to me.

[Todd McShay]

And so here. Here's my question. I like the gossip like everybody else. It's fun, right? And like, we do, like, news or noise. I don't know at this point. And I'll be honest, sometimes I think I'll tell you what the news is and what portions of the news I can report, and there's plenty of stuff we'll tell you in the next 15 minutes. There's stuff that could be. Could be news. But as of right now, I Just got to call it noise. I like the gossip. I like the fun. Who doesn't look at reality tv, you know, it's exploded, right? Everyone, Everyone loves like all this stuff, but. But then I, after like having the fun for a minute, I like to really like what's the football aspect of it. And yeah, who doesn't want Travis Hunter, but who's got the picks to go do something?

[Mitch]

Yeah, it's got to be someone early because then if it's not someone early, you're giving up a haul to move up that far right.

[Todd McShay]

Vegas. Vegas has needs at wide receiver and corner early. I just, I, I don't see them, but I don't know. Yeah, spy tech's got roots in that organization.

[Mitch]

It screams Dallas.

[Todd McShay]

It screams Dallas, but it's going on. There are calls going on and it's not just with the number two pick. Here's my question, though. The football aspect of it you've had all this time, and I think Joel will explain it to you later, but I can, I can tell you this much. Like, there's a reason why it keeps getting reported. Like, okay, we're. This is the second. This is the third, the third longest it would ever be without a first round. This is the second long. Now it's official. This is the long. The longest we've gone leading up to the draft where the first round, a first round pick has not been traded. There's a reason that it's such news, because normally there is one, and normally there is one because teams like to have their house in order before they get to their final match meetings. Okay, you got the, you got the owner coming in early this week and being like, what's the plan? Lay it out. Who's. Who's at the top? Who could we trade up for? Who do we have? What's our plan? As any good owner of a business would do, bring in senior leadership and tell what's. So. So you want to have your house in order.

[Mitch]

So could you potentially have an owner walking into that room right now and saying, no, no, no, no, no. This is who I want.

[Todd McShay]

You think the house is in order? Yeah, but it's figured out it's not in the order I'm looking it to be in right there. That's. That's an interesting point. That's a very interesting point. So that part should be. But. But then I keep going back, Todd. Keep going back. I don't usually talk to myself in third, but like, I keep like, trying to remind myself, why would Cleveland. It would have to be a monster. They've had all the time in the world. If you show, if you show any sign of interest in moving out of this pick, you have sent out the pheromones, if you will. You've let everyone kind of, hey, give me a call. I tell your buddy, give me a call. Why would Cleveland even entertain? And I'm not saying they are, but it's just fascinating that now, Tuesday, two days before the draft, there's like, I've got someone calling who's going to be in that final room, reaching out, wanting to know, is this real?

[Mitch]

It's got to be a top 12 team. In my mind, you just. The firepower would take outside of that range to get up there for this player specifically. Again, how many times have we talked about it? I mean, there's, there's three blue chippers or whatever you want to say in this draft. He's, he's number one on your board, right? Final, final rankings. Travis Hunter is number one on the topic shape board, correct?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I think this is a, this is a good 32nd exercise to go through. Who are teams that actually have firepower not just for Travis Hunter? Okay, I'm looking at alphabetically, just going down here.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Buffalo has three picks in the top 62, but don't have a third round pick. And again, I'm not doing this exercise just for Travis Hunter, number two. I'm talking because we're going to get to several teams real quickly here that are allegedly looking to move up. Okay. And so I think it's interesting to look. Buffalo's got three picks in the top 62, but no third. Chicago's got the three picks in the top 41, four in the top 72. Cleveland's got four. They're not for this situation. But they're not moving. They're not moving. But, but that is important for the second round if they're trying to move back in first, which I'm told that they're not leaning in that direction for a quarterback.

[Mitch]

And remember, all these picks aren't created equal. I mean, if you're looking to trade with Buffalo, you're thinking, I'm picking late in every one of those rounds. So, I mean, not that Buffalo would be making this move, I don't think. But just remember that with certain teams.

[Todd McShay]

New Orleans got three picks and four picks in the top 93. They, they're going to need them to move up if they want to move up for a Jackson dart. Same same thing with the Giants. Four picks in the top 99. Same scenario for Jackson Dart. How many? San Francisco's needs all 11 picks, to be quite honest with you. But they've got four in the top 100. Seattle's got five in the top 92. Okay, but I don't. That doesn't feel like John Schneider to me.

[Mitch]

No, they just got Cooper Cup. I mean, I know they got rid of DK and Cooper cup is where he's at, his career, but it doesn't. It doesn't pass the smell test.

[Todd McShay]

No. From eight. From 18.

[Mitch]

All right, but do you have Dallas's picks there?

[Todd McShay]

Do you know Dallas has their. Their chalk? They do. They have 10 picks. Okay.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

But they. But Dallas is sitting here at 12, obviously. And then at 44 and 76, they have. They have one in each of the first three rounds. So that means they have seven picks on. On day three. So, I mean, I could dig a little deeper for you and go through like. Yeah, they don't have any crazy early.

[Mitch]

No, no.

[Todd McShay]

So. All right, I get it, but I don't. I don't see.

[Mitch]

What about. What about Jacksonville? What if it's not tatted five, but Jacksonville wants to move up to get Travis? Not that much.

[Todd McShay]

From five, they get four picks in the top 88.

[Mitch]

Not as much from five to two. As for. From 12 to two or wherever you want to go after that.

[Todd McShay]

That's interesting.

[Mitch]

I'm good at this, man. I should be detective.

[Todd McShay]

All right. Obviously, this portion of it has been noise, but. But it is interesting because. Because it's happening. And so we'll. We'll, you know, stick with us. We'll be back tomorrow morning, and we'll. We'll see if there's any news breaking, and we'll keep iron. I mean, I don't want to go write my final mock draft with all this lurking.

[Mitch]

I know.

[Todd McShay]

Hanging out there. But. But we'll do it. Brutal.

[Mitch]

For all those who are ready. Mock drafts.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. All right. Other interesting things. And this one. This one is. Is juicy and complicated and still to this moment, uncertain. But I want to walk you through the giant situation. I've been saying for two weeks now that it doesn't make football sense to me that Brian Dabel would want Shador Sanders. Football sense. I've been saying that you look at his track record, you look at the mobility component of it. I don't think Jackson Hard has a. In fact, Jackson Dart does not have a. He doesn't drive the ball vertically all that great, but he's got a little more energy on like intermediate throws than. Than Shador does. But in terms of what he's been used. Sturdy, mobile, that kind of quarterback. I just have always thought that Brian Dabel and Kellen Moore with New Orleans, that they would. They would prefer Jackson Dart or a Tyler Shock or even as a. As a developmental project, but not for this conversation. A Jalen Milroe over Shador Sanders. I've always said Kevin Stefanski is the perfect coach for Shador Sanders. So here's what I do know. I want to share what I do know. I do now know that what I've always assumed with Brian and I've talked to Brian and like. But not, not specifically about this, but what I've always assumed is that it would be Jackson Darton and it's. I know it's not Chador. Okay, so we can kind of in Sharpie it's not Shador. Here's where it gets really interesting, okay? Because apparently there are some people in the organization, the personnel side, that are a little bit more in favor of Shador. Okay? But here's the part that what I just shared with you is absolutely news. Okay? What now is interesting is we kind of decipher and sift through information as I'm getting texts and talking to people. Not on X, not on inst. Like, not on all that. Like actually talking to people in the league who have people in connecting dots. I've been told a couple different things when it comes to the Giants. One is that there are personnel people in the personnel department, the scouting department, that prefer Shador over. Over that we're actually pushing for shador. Maybe at 3, Dable is not a Shador guy and Dable prefers Jackson Dart. I don't know to what level. Here's the part that's fascinating as we're trying to sift through. And I do not know, but there's speculation in league circles that there's a push from Dable to take. To use this first pick, the Giants first pick on the quarterback. Let's call it Jackson Dart. For these purposes. Again, I'm confirming he's a. He's. He's not Shador. Most likely Dart. By my football senses, this part is kind of text chains figuring out, talking to different people. But there's. There's a. There's information that leads me to believe that. That Brian would prefer to not mess around. If we've got a guy, I'm telling you he's the guy. And I've said this and I want to make this perfectly clear. Like I. I'VE said this with Kellen, I've said it especially with Brian, I believe. And I've said this before, and I put my hand out like this. There's like a handful. And a handful is not dozens handfuls, not really more than 10 for me, of human beings in the NFL that can develop and understand the quarterback position and have the offensive coupled with the offensive brain that Brian Dable has. So if I got that guy in my building, Steve, I'm leaning on that guy to make this decision. And I've said it before, I'm doing so even if Brian's not there in three years, why am I making a decision on a tech investment? If I get a tech genius in the building, even if I don't want him around for five years or if it doesn't. Doesn't work out, I'm going to lean on him over my agriculture guy.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Or my social media director. You know what I mean? And this guy's one of the skilled elite in my, in my opinion and obviously in the mayor family opinion because they've stuck with it through thick and thin and they're smart because they have. Okay, I agree with that. So you let Brian make the decision on the quarterback. Now here's where I'll say, and I love Brian and I just told you how much I appreciate and respect him. I don't let the coach make the decision on when we're going to take him. Now it's on the gm. If we organizationally have decide, hey, we've got the guy to make the decision. The guy's got his quarterback. He's told us who that guy is. Now it's my job if I'm Joe Shane, to figure out how the fuck I go get him. Seriously, like now I got to figure it out. I've got. Because I, I've got Abdul Carter at 3. Maybe like it could turn into a Hall of Fame pass rusher. Gonna be a darn good pass rusher. I've got Kayvon Thibodeau, by the way, who we're not sure we want to. We want to sign. We haven't done the fifth year deal. So maybe I bring in and I've heard, I've actually heard this. This is, this is not me just making something up. I've actually heard one potential scenario is you take Abdul Carter at 3, you use Kayvon Thibodeau as part of a package to then move back, back into the first round to get Jackson Dart. Okay. However you're going to maneuver around, if I'm armed with the, the information that my, my guy who should be making the decision, quarterback, has said it's Jackson Dart if that's the guy. But I've also got Abdul Carter. I can't let those two things intertwine because the worst thing that can happen here, Giants fans and anyone in the NFL who's interested in this whole scenario, the worst thing that can occur is that you move back because you get cute and you're like, well, if you want to take Jackson Dart, we can move back a little bit and get Jackson Dart. Let's go. Pick up a three. If you move back and you leave a gap of this vulnerability because right now at 3, you are guaranteed to get Jackson Dart or you're guaranteed to get Abdul Carter. Shoot, you're guaranteed to get any player in this entire draft class outside of Cam Ward and most likely Travis Hunter. So what I can't let happen if I'm Joe Shane is, yeah, all right, I get greedy. Let's move back. Let's pick up a third and get and take Jackson Dart there because like, fine, I'll give him his guy, but I'm not doing it. 3. So you got it. You got to take Abdul Carter there or you got to take Jackson Dart there. But this is why the GM has to make this decision because you don't take Jackson Dart at three and why don't you take Dart at three even if you love him? Because Abdul Carter's sitting there. And so now you better figure out and you better be on the phone and you got to figure out where and now you got to trust your intel. And this is what the general manager you got to build relationships. I'm telling you, this GM job is not about picking out. He's run good 40 time, but the arm length and he's like, you've got a bunch of guys who can do that. You've graduated that level. You're now the general manager. It's a relationship based job. And now this. All your relationships that you should have been developing need to come into play for information. And information provides you the map for where you go and get Jackson Dart. You can't move back because if you move back then it might signal, oh, they're going to take Dart there. And maybe it tips New Orleans and New Orleans goes up a couple of spots to go, gets dart. And you know what you do? You wake up Friday morning and you're like, oh, shit, I, I didn't get Abdul Carter and I didn't get Jackson Dart. And that's the fail. So that can't happen. And I assume, Joe Shane, that won't happen. So you take Abdul Carter and you figure out where you go get Jackson Dark.

[Mitch]

What happens.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mitch]

If you're the front office and we have our feelings, man, and it. It doesn't really matter what we think. And I. Because I think I know what you're going to say. But what happens if you're the front office and you love Shador Sanders and you're convinced this is the guy who's going to get you back into the Super Bowl? Do you.

[Todd McShay]

You call dad. You call dad.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Dad's John Marrow.

[Mitch]

Yeah. You have to. Right.

[Todd McShay]

I promise you.

[Mitch]

Because you can't just do it.

[Todd McShay]

And I want. I. I've said this before, but I want to make it perfectly clear. I don't assume that everyone's watched every show. Hold that thought. As of Sunday, I was told, and I'm certain of it, that John Mayer has. Has allowed his football people to make his football decisions, which is exactly what an owner should do.

[Mitch]

Agree.

[Todd McShay]

So. So credit to the Mara family for doing that.

[Mitch]

If the rift gets bad enough, you have to call in dad. You have to call him in the room and say, I want this. They want that.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, think about the history, like, whether RG3 and Daniel Snyder and. And like.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. It's who. And again, it's a relationship business. And who's closest with dad.

[Mitch]

Are you. If you're a Giants fan, are you concerned that they're going to take Shador Sanders at 3?

[Todd McShay]

If I'm a Giants fan, yeah. Well, the worst thing that can happen to this organization is you take Shador Sanders at three after Brian Dable, who. Who is the most qualified person in that zip code, actually.

[Mitch]

And I see it that way, and you see it that way, but I'm not sure everyone in that building.

[Todd McShay]

I don't disagree.

[Mitch]

Yeah, that's what I'm concerned about.

[Todd McShay]

I think it's going to be Abdul Carter at 3. And then I think it's. It becomes a. It's up to Joe Shane to figure out what the smart move is. Because as of right now, I'm telling you, there's a lot of people in the league that don't think another quarterback is going to go in the first round. That doesn't mean that that's what's going to happen. But there are a lot of people in the league and people who do the information business. I was gonna say peddling, but that sounded petty. Who work in the information business. And are great at it. Don't think ca map for there not being more than one quarterback because Pittsburgh's a soft floor. I've told you that for Shador Sanders. It's not a, it's not a cement floor like we thought it was just five days ago. And, and, and, and again, I have to repeat myself. I learned in one thing. I did learn television. Don't assume any of everyone's been here the whole time. So I'm going to repeat myself and say Mike Tomlin does like Shador Sanders. So the reports that said he doesn't were inaccurate. The reports that said he, he does like Shador Sanders were accurate. And so, but with that information he can really like them. But that doesn't mean they're going to take him. They don't have a second round pick. Maybe they're entertaining, moving back. I listen, I don't mean defensive line help. That's a, that's a strong possibility.

[Mitch]

I don't mean this as a shot to all the information providers out of there, all the inside guys, the insider guys because I do think they're fantastic at their jobs. But I would remind everyone in the league, you, me, how many of them had Atlanta taking Michael Penix last year where Atlanta took them. There's.

[Todd McShay]

That's why this is the greatest. This is the greatest. This is the greatest reality television in the world. The NFL draft.

[Mitch]

If you, the longer you wait. What a long night that is. If you're waiting to see if you can get Jackson dart at the end of the first or possibly in the beginning you are in for.

[Todd McShay]

I know.

[Mitch]

Long night.

[Todd McShay]

I know. And pull up a picture of the, of the Giants room.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Where does Joe Shane sit? Where, where does Brian sit?

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I, I'm going to be watching that a little closer. Hey, Tucker. Tucker. Yes. I would need a third television. I want one, I want one over here for programming. We need another one for, for the picks and, and then we need one on the Giants draft room.

[Joe Douglas]

How about the monitor behind you?

[Todd McShay]

Perfect.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

The audience can watch with us. All right. That's Tucker by the way, who's the absolute man takes care of all of this, keeps this thing afloat. We would be do. We would be doing this. It just wouldn't go anywhere. No one would be able to hear or see it. Okay, next up, Genti's getting hot. Ashton Genti is getting hot. And I wondered how long this was going to take because the more people in the league I talked to absolutely love Omarion Hampton but also recognize there's like 25 other backs in this class. And the more people I actually talk to inside the league are like, yeah, I think early second for Omarion and actually the more people I talked to in the league, I started to lean. I think Travion Henderson might have a chance to go before Omarion Hampton and maybe the second back draft in the first round. But we'll see how that plays out. My point is the gap between Jinty and Hampton or Henderson is a lot bigger than maybe what we thought when we were talking to people a month ago. Okay. So that, that's the backdrop of the information. Where I'm going with this is we talked to you earlier in the week. The things I can tell you, Jacksonville's not drafting Mason Graham and I'm told the Raiders are not taking Ashton Jinty at six. But that might, that may not be. That may be a moot point.

[Mitch]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

Because what all I also was told, remember the first thing I reported and I think we jumped on the Ted McMillan thing and I think rightfully so. And I think that there's still a strong possibility. But remember when I first told you, I said it's Ginty and Ted McMillan are the two that, that make the most sense based off of Liam Cohen's coming in, need to support Trevor, better offensive pieces and weapons. Okay, so offensive skill guys. But I'd be lying if I said the information I got wasn't leaning more towards McMillan than it was to Jinte. But now there's. There's buzz that it could be Genti there, right? Is that New England giving out the bus? Think about it, okay. Or Jacksonville just wants them because for the longest time, you Patriots fans, who I'm surrounded by and my family and my friends, for the longest time it was if Shador gets to us at 3 or 4, someone's going to want to come and trade up. Right?

[Mitch]

I get what you're saying now. I wasn't picking up right away. I get what you're saying now.

[Todd McShay]

But if you're a Patriots fan, the hopeful thing is because listen, Will Campbell is going to be your draft pick in the first round. I'd really like to get him at 10.

[Mitch]

Here we go.

[Todd McShay]

So you're saying, or I'd even like to get him at five. Yeah, whatever. I don't care if it's one spot, five spots and if it's not him, then I'll take. I'll take Kelvin Banks or I'll go a different like whatever it is. I just don't want to have to take will Campbell at 4 because I haven't talked to a single fricking person in the league who. Two things are. Two things are across the board with Will Campbell going to New England. Yep. I get it. Terrible to be backed up into that need put in the same situation with that quarterback. That situation. That offensive line. Might have to do it myself. Going to be a damn good football player. Might be a guard, but he's going to be a damn good football player. So you're getting a really good football player at 4. Then the second part that is across the board. Everyone I've talked to. Not worth the fourth pick. Not worth the fourth. Fourth pick. Will Campbell is not the fourth pick in this draft. But these offensive tackles are going to go. And I'll come back to the offensive tackles in a minute. But I do find it interesting as we get 48 hours away from the NFL draft, the name is Ashton Genti and there's. And here's my list. Here's my list of notes I've been taking.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

It's. It's Jacksonville 5. I'm told it's not 6 to. To the Raiders and, and I trust my source there. But maybe, maybe they're. They're like playing chess while the rest playing. Playing checkers and maybe they're trying to get people to cool off. No, you can get gently later. Bears you can get. And now there's talk of the Bears at 10. And also one team I can confirm has been making calls to move up. And the assumption, the fact is the news is if we're doing news and noise today, everyone wants to do news and noise. If we're doing news today, the news is Denver's made calls to move up. The noise potentially could turn into news. Is that Denver's doing that. Sean Payton wants to go up and get Ashton Ginty. Denver currently has their 3 20, 51 and 85 in the first three picks. Seven picks.

[Mitch]

That's how you sort through news or noise. Right. Is it. Does it make football sense?

[Todd McShay]

Correct.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And then you make more calls. But all of those teams could be. It could be the Genti stuff. Interesting from Ryan polls. There's a lot of phone calls going on right now, quote unquote, a lot more movement than there has been in the past in reference to. And I was reading it again and honestly I can't tell if it means after two and three or. I can't imagine he'd be talking about the second and third.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

So something about after two and three drop off and But a lot of. A lot more movement than has there has been in the past when Brian's acutely aware there's been no movement now. But he, I think he's indicating that he's expecting a lot of movement to have, which is. Goes against the grain of what everyone's been saying. There's not a lot of elite players. There's not going to be a lot of movement. I'm telling you, something's coming down the pipe. Sorry, Tucker, I didn't mean to bang the table. How.

[Mitch]

I mean, New England gets bailed out if that happens. You think back to it. You think about New England losing that last game to a Buffalo team that didn't have any, you know, stake in it, and Joe Milton slinging it around and, man, that It's. It's crazy to think about that one game, how much it shifted, dude.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, but the Giants, you Giant, poor Giants fans, like what you've passed on quarterback. But also this year, they lose that game, they get Cam Ward.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

How much do you know how much, Cap? I don't know exactly, but I've been told by a very good source it was a bleep ton that they were willing to get to move up to number one. And it almost was pretty close to happening. I think at the combine. Was my understanding that, like, that was right. It was. They weren't that far apart.

[Mitch]

Talk about mismanaging.

[Todd McShay]

Let's. Let's turn the page. Houston.

[Mitch]

Oh, we're going to Houston. Let's go.

[Todd McShay]

Houston's at 25. I've heard. They're another team that I've confirmed been making calls to try to move up. Here's the thing, and we've been trying to explain this, and we'll talk to Joe about the offensive lineman. I'm sure these two meat sticks, these two former big guard tackles. We want to talk offensive lineman when we get Joe Douglas on. I'm pumped to talk to Joe. These offensive tackles, they're. They're the, the first one, Will Campbell, is the fifth or sixth from last year. Okay. They're not, it's not the group. Same at wide receiver, same at quarterback. Okay. But the problem is there's two parts of this. First of all, they are. There's just not many of them. And so when the, when it dries up offensive tackles the same way every year, early second round, guys go, go, go late. First, late. First go middle, middle, go early. And so the offensive tackles are gonna go fat. Like, everyone I talk to is like, they don't. They don't deserve to. They're going fast. Okay. They're also young. I think it was Breer or someone. It was a great point because I was saying this when we went through our offensive, like, there's some stuff, there's some immaturity, but they're all without. With the exception of, like, Zabel, they're all like 20, turning 21, 22. So they're still developing. So there's hope for this group. So I think you're more comfortable knowing that a member is just a PUP and a Banks is just a pup, even though he started 42 games.

[Mitch]

Like Connerly Jr. I think is young, too. Yeah, Pop.

[Todd McShay]

Right. So. So my point is this. I can almost guarantee you three offensive tackles are coming off the board in the top 13 picks. I'm staring at that camera. Should be on that camera. What I'm saying is.

[Mitch]

Hold on.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Will Campbell from LSU tackle, maybe moving into guard, but not for New England Patriots. He's going to be the number four pick or he will be the Patriots pick. If they move out, they'll still try to get him. Armand Menboo, I feel very strongly he's going in the top 10. That's a lock. I am told that the clock starts ticking at six with the Raiders. I keep hearing. I got a text actually, this morning. I'm out walking. Beautiful. So nice to be out here.

[Mitch]

This is nice.

[Todd McShay]

I wonder how Green Bay's weather is today. I love packers fans. One of the best trips of my life was going to Lambeau Field. For the first time ever, I got to do the Lambeau leap. It was a Leonard Fournette game. Oh, no way. Lsu, Wisconsin, me, Steve Levy, greasy, we had an awesome time. The people are awesome. I'm a cheese lunatic, so I do miss that part, but I don't miss the weather. Where was I going? Oh, I'm on a walk this morning and. And, And I get a text and it's a, hey, what are you hearing? I'm here in Vegas with Memboo, and I'm like, yep, that's. That's what I'm hearing. Edge. Offensive tackle, not gentle. Okay, so. So with that in mind, then you get. You start looking down the board a little bit and 13. The reason I said that there's three offensive tackles going Miami is the. Is by my understanding, is the floor for Kelvin Banks. Okay. And so now you're. You're. You're looking at that and saying, yeah, but you get maybe Chicago 10 left tackle.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Right 11. San Francisco left tackle. I don't know that Banks is going to get there, is my point. Okay, so Houston having the offensive line, changing the whole culture of that old line group, basically everyone from that. From coaches to players gone get out from last year.

[Mitch]

Okay?

[Todd McShay]

Not acceptable. The bar is not acceptable. The culture in that room is not acceptable. Were re racking. They're sitting at 25 and they're like, shoot. Those three are gone in the top 10. 13 at the latest. Right. Gray Zabel's gone. 18 at the latest. North Dakota State guard Josh Simmons, maybe a knuckle, maybe immature, but most talented offensive tackle in this class coming out of Ohio State. He's less than the 25. Who's next?

[Mitch]

Connerly and Ursary. Is that right?

[Todd McShay]

Connerly and Nursery Usuries are two for most teams I've talked to. Okay. I like Ursary a lot. I see the potential. So Houston's a team. So these. The point is these tackles are going. Ashton Jinty. There's a lot of buzz around. We're. We're. Keep. Keep digging on the Travis Hunter situation. But Denver is actively making calls to move up. Houston actively making calls to move up. The Cowboys seem to be up to something.

[Mitch]

And Houston has four top 100 picks. That's right. Got it right here on the list. I got the same thing as you.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Four top 89 picks. Yes.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

But yes, top 100. They both are accurate. And it's kind of hanging in the balance starting at that fifth pick, right?

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Is Jacksonville taking Tet. McMillan or are they taking Ashton Jinty? And if it's Ashton Jinty in the next 48 hours and it's confirmed by someone. So if that leaks right out now, is New England hitting the lottery?

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Because someone's moving up for Gent.

[Mitch]

Bailed out.

[Todd McShay]

Could Sean Payton orchestrate a trade from 20 to 4 and. But if you need a left tackle in your New England, you're not get.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yep. Houston's trying to trade it from 25.

[Mitch]

Unless Rabel's got those Ohio State ties and he's heard, you know, he's got more information on Simmons than anyone else, and he feels like maybe he's there and maybe they're comfortable with that. I just love that tie in.

[Todd McShay]

No, I know. So that's where we are. A lot of fascinating stuff. A lot of fascinating stuff. My big board's out, man. Final one. Never felt more at ease.

[Mitch]

You slept all right.

[Todd McShay]

Truest, most pure board I've ever done. Let me share something with you. Okay. I take a Great deal of pride in. In my evaluations, whether they suck or they're great or they're in between. And whatever you think about them, like, the work we put in speaks for itself. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that. But there's this thing that goes on as, like, as I got later into my career, and now I'm moving it up and I'm elevated to the front, to the desk, and I'm on the first night of the draft, and there's abc, and now all of a sudden, Marriott's calling, I get a sponsorship, and there's a Todd's Best available, and it's running on the left side screen for everyone to see. Millions, not hundreds of thousands, millions of people to watch on their, you know, in their living room, at the bar, wherever. And so, like, I never specifically was like, I'm gonna move a guy down or. But I was cognizant. And probably, if I'm being honest, probably a little, like, subconsciously more aware that, like, all right, I know because I'm talking to people in the league that this guy's. This guy at 20, he's going to 35. I don't want him to be sitting there for two hours and have his name at the top of the board. And then what happens is the host starts asking, well, you've had him at the top of the board for an hour and a half, right? What's wrong? Is there something? Because then. Because then, honestly, I. It was like, I don't want those questions to start swirling. Then what happens is that naturally the host always asks, oh, maybe is there the characters or medical thing that we didn't know? So there's like a protection mechanism. So I was always careful to make sure that they were kind of in the range. I'm free.

[Mitch]

You're encouraged. I mean, talking to Connor before the. Before the show, he was like, yeah, man, stick with your gut. Whatever. Whatever you think is right, go with it. It's not. Well, if he's not going to go there, should we move him up? It was. What. What do you believe? What are you seeing? What do you think? Put him where you think he should be. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I, again, I'm talking like, four or five spots to make sure there wasn't an embarrassment or people started to worry about. So I would always kind of within a range, Right. But now I get to just do it, like, free and easy. I've taken hacks. I've got some crazy stuff in here, and that's okay.

[Mitch]

It's not crazy.

[Todd McShay]

No.

[Mitch]

It's unique.

[Todd McShay]

No. For audience who's looking at everyone else's top 100 and all that. But I'm also like, I've. I've gotten some people who've shared me their board. Okay. And there's some stuff in there you'd be like, wait, what? Wait, what? I'm telling you, like some crazy stuff. So, like, it is what it is. And the other part too is the teams all like different schemes, different, you know, criteria, objectives, psychological, all of it. But I'm proud of this board, man. I'm excited about this board. I. And I ain't winning the Huddle Report this year. Sorry, guys. I've shown you that I have enough contacts in the league. I can. I can kind of manufacture five or six guys running. I'll turn it in tonight. I'll probably come in 20th. That's fine. But this board is. Is. Is my baby. My baby. So. Well, now that we have it, I don't. Do we have graphics build? Are we going to roll any of it out? What are we doing with it? I don't care. Men. She's going to pick it apart. Take it.

[Mitch]

Men, listen, I'm a. I'm a man of the people and I have my. I have my own questions here, but I'm going to ask what the people want to know first. And that would be where. Who's quarterback, too? What'd you end up with?

[Todd McShay]

Jackson Darth?

[Mitch]

You want to talk about it a little bit or you think. You think you've said enough?

[Todd McShay]

I think I've said enough.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Jackson Dart for me fits more systems. Fits. Fits more.

[Mitch]

But you like the player a little more.

[Todd McShay]

I like him.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I like him. So I had Jackson Dart at 20 and Shador Sanders at 21. It's okay. It's not okay if you're Brian Dable or. Well, it would be okay, but you have to make a choice. And I made a choice. I made a choice of Jackson. If all things were equal, schematically, I'm taking Jackson Dart over Shador Sanders. What factors in is obviously what fits best in what you're trying to do and accomplish. And so Shador Sanders could fit best for. For Kevin Stefanski, as I've said, whereas Jackson Dart would fit better for Kellen Moore with the New Orleans Saints and Brian with the Giants. But, yeah, I made my stance perfectly clear. I've got them in 20 and 21. And some people might say that's a little bit high. I actually think they can both succeed in the NFL, and I don't know that 20 and 21 is too high. I thought it was a little low. I did have them a little low. That's fair. What do you got next? Just. Let's firewall it.

[Mitch]

Okay? So we. So we've already talked about it. We already hit on it, but I. I'm going to give you another shot at it. Ted A. Roa McMillan, the wide receiver from Arizona. You didn't wake up the next day and have a Jerry Maguire moment of, oh, my God, I have to change his back. I can't leave him there.

[Todd McShay]

Nope.

[Mitch]

He ended up at 50.

[Todd McShay]

I don't trust him. There. I'm going to say it. I'm. I'm on a freedom. I'm on my. My own freedom trail.

[Mitch]

Number one receiver on my board at the end of it.

[Todd McShay]

Good.

[Mitch]

Unless you're counting Travis Hunter, but go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

I get it, and I see the talent and. And I wish him the best, and I hope it all comes together, and I hope he learns how to light his own fire.

[Mitch]

That's it. Period, Mike. Job done.

[Todd McShay]

I don't trust him.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

I don't trust. And I have reports, and I know that Jed Fish got, as one scout said, when he was great, when Jed Fish had his foot on his throat. Don't take that the wrong way. Like, obviously, it means, like someone who is monitoring and making sure. Pushing him, pushing him, driving him.

[Mitch]

Correct.

[Todd McShay]

When Jed Fish left town, there was a new sheriff in town and it was Tet.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Ted didn't like to work out and practice hard unless the scout was in attendance. Showed up on the routes.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Quitting on balls over the middle field. Didn't think he showed attention to detail. I get offended personally for Drake London when people say, oh, he's the next Drake London. Yeah. No, he's the same size. He makes the same acrobatic catches. Drake was a dog.

[Mitch]

I agree with that. I think that's a. That is a. Not that I don't agree with all the other stuff, by the way, but that is a fair point you brought up early on. When the ball is in the air, they can both go up and get it.

[Todd McShay]

Don't.

[Mitch]

Don't get us wrong, but I mean, Drake doesn't believe in 50. 50 balls. He believes in, that's my ball.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's.

[Mitch]

That's his mentality.

[Todd McShay]

So. And again, like, I. I see the talent. I'm not. But it's. It's what I like to call a. You can have them. Great.

[Mitch]

The next thing that jumped out to me and we've had this conversation over the course of the show and I thought it was very interesting. Mason Taylor ends up at 28. The tight end from LSU and Miami tight end Elijah Royo ends up at 39. What ultimately came because you, I think both of us have been flip flopping. Right.

[Todd McShay]

I struggle with it.

[Mitch]

I had a royal hire in the end for me, I thought you would too. And it kind of caught me off guard.

[Todd McShay]

Here's a trend that I think you'll notice. Throughout this thing, I did two things. I went back because I said, you know what? Fuck it, I'm done. Okay?

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And that wasn't one of the trends, but I'm done, like worrying about this. And I'm just going to go with, with the following two things. Right. Put myself in one of those 32 chairs and I got to make this decision. And I got a wife and kids at home. Right? Right. And we like living in here and my kids like going to the school district and I like working for this owner and I like all the people who have been fortunate enough to lead. Right. Kind of put yourself in that mind frame. Okay. And when, and when doing so, it's how do I best protect this organization? Bring in the best talent, but I've got to protect. I, I have been handed this authority to. And part of my job is to protect this organization. In doing so, I've got to figure out who can contribute, who can help, and then also where's my risk line? Right. I absolutely love Elijah Arroyo. I think he's got more prick in him and I mean that in the most positive way.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Than the top three tight ends in this class. If you were to tell me you got one play and you give me, here are the top four tight ends in this class and I'm going to need a block down the field to spring something or I'm going to need someone to just go fight his tail off. For me, it's Arroyo. Arroyo is that guy. Elijah is an absolute dog, man. But with Mason Taylor, two things. He's durable, he's consistent, he's reliable. He's his dad's son. He's this. He's lived this game. I know exactly what I'm getting with Mason Taylor.

[Mitch]

He's the definition of plug and play, which is a good thing.

[Todd McShay]

Here's the second thing, though. There's more upside in that tank.

[Mitch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

And I went back and I read my reports and I did this in a lot of guys because I wanted to make Sure. I was accurately portraying what I studied on tape. I studied my reports to study what I studied on tape. So I stuck with it and I went back to Mason Taylor and I. And I put it in there twice. There's more in there for this guy. Didn't utilize him fully. They. They used him how they wanted to use him at lsu and he was clutch. That dude was clutch, by the way. Yeah, obviously the Alabama room. Freshman.

[Joe Douglas]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But. But this year, like Ole Miss late in the game, he. He did some things in big moments, but they did. It was a lot of drags underneath. The outlet stuff, the flat stuff. Okay. I want to see him more down the seam running route. So I think there's more in that tank. I love both players, Arroyos. There's a risk level there and that would be why I would take Taylor over him, even though I do think there's a slightly higher upside. And I think he's a. And I know he's a better blocker than Mason Taylor.

[Mitch]

With Arroyo, I mean, the overall ranking reflects two guys you like a lot.

[Todd McShay]

A lot. For tight ends.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I mean, for me that was a tight race. I was, I was fascinated to see where you ended up with it. Player I like. I want to talk about personally.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

That I don't think you're super low on, but I'm higher on. I think he's just being slept on. Is the Oregon edge Jordan Birch.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not a huge, huge fan, so.

[Mitch]

You tell me why £279, he runs a 4, 6, 7. You look at his production and you're like, oh, that's okay. Just remember, he missed four games too. Those numbers. Condense the numbers based on 10 games, not 14 games. Okay. Could play anywhere along your front, inside, outside. I think he can play as a stand up outside linebacker if you want him to. Could rush the passer from the inside. Extremely versatile, more productive than people think. And he ran a 4, 6, 7 at £279. Now granted, here's the. This is the tough part about all this and we had to talk about this on the way in. Okay, well then who are you moving him ahead of? Because there's a lot of talented edges, you know, like, there's a lot of other edges that I like too, but Jordan Birch, you end up with that 75. I don't think that's, for lack of a better way of saying it, disrespectful. I think that's pretty much where a lot of people have them. And, you know, that's That's a good grade, man. That's not a bad grade for me personally. That's someone I would take a little bit earlier.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he can. He's your guy.

[Mitch]

Okay, cool.

[Todd McShay]

No, I'm not. I'm not brushing it off. I didn't see. I see potential. I just. The hard part with him and Landon Jackson, if I'm being honest, is they're big bodied dudes who should play one way and play another.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I didn't see that as much with Jackson either, by the way. You made that point a couple times. I think Jackson play that four eye position. You don't think he's. He's rugged enough to do that?

[Todd McShay]

I. I'm concerned. No, I don't. I actually don't.

[Mitch]

Yeah, we don't agree on everything. Right.

[Todd McShay]

We don't. We don't have to talk to me.

[Mitch]

Because this happened to me last year. I loved the defensive tackle class last year and it played out that they were pretty damn good. And I love the defensive tackle class this year. And you got Walter Nolan at 16, which I love because, I mean, I think he was a little bit up and down your board over the years.

[Todd McShay]

I'm gonna need my leadership counselors to be on top. I got it.

[Mitch]

But you ultimately too good. Too good not to.

[Todd McShay]

Too good not to.

[Mitch]

Four in the top 25, I believe. I think Grant was 25.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

You obviously love this class too.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Mitch]

Last year I thought all these guys were going to come off the board, man. And Braden Fisk, when he didn't go in the first round, I know sweat didn't go in the first round. Yeah, it surprised me. And there's still a lot went in the top hundred. I think it was 11. You have 13 in the top hundred going this year. I'm just worried that some of these guys are gonna get pushed down because of the positional value.

[Todd McShay]

Any.

[Mitch]

Any concerns about that? And by the way, one guy that I was very surprised that didn't make it in. But again, where do you put him? Just outside the top hundred. Do you remember who. You. Any idea who might be talking about?

[Todd McShay]

Omar Norman? I know I had him in there and had to move him out.

[Mitch]

It's tough, right?

[Todd McShay]

Very tough.

[Mitch]

Those are the decisions when you get.

[Todd McShay]

Let me give you a couple guys. We'll have fun. We'll have fun on Thursday night. We'll have fun on Thursday night. If. Where. Okay. Scatter Boo was really hard to knock out of the top 100. Not just because of you, Tucker, Dylan Sampson. Okay. I went with my boy Tyrion Ingram Dawkins from Georgia. Because if he gets drafted in the top 100 and I didn't have him, I couldn't. I see the.

[Mitch]

See the potential there. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

But I don't think he's going in the top 100. But I just couldn't live with that moment that he goes at pick 99 or 100, and you're like, big Shay, your boy. And I'm like, yeah, but I put him at 105.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

So those are a couple names. Omar Norman. Lot I had to bump down. I had to bump down. Jalen Lane. I bumped down.

[Mitch]

I know. That's another one you love.

[Todd McShay]

Second. We'll see.

[Mitch]

Yeah, that's the hardest for me, going through Gunner Helm. Going through this process the last couple of years. For me, when you get the first 85 is easy. Right.

[Todd McShay]

You start to feel the. The room condenses. Yes.

[Mitch]

And then you get about oxygen in the room, and you're like, there's no way I'm leaving player. I a out of this. Right. Like, I love player. I know, but you just know. You just. You. You have a feeling for it at that point that it's probably not in the cards and someone's gonna get a great fourth round pick here.

[Todd McShay]

All right, we got to get out of here. We got Joe coming in. Joe Douglas was most recently with the the New York jets as general manager. Can't wait to talk to Joe. Can't wait to talk to you guys on Thursday night. Like, be with us. Join us. I don't care about. Just come with us. If it's got to be a second screen, it's got to be a second screen. We're gonna have a blast. One hour before live streaming. YouTube, Spotify, get involved. You don't want to miss this. It's gonna, like, we're gonna be all on top of stuff. And what? Like, we're gonna have texts coming in, picks talking here, like, some backs. There's just gonna be a lot of stuff that you probably. I know you've never gotten before. So we'll hopefully share it and have some fun with it, and we'll have some laughs along the way.

[Mitch]

Dude, final mock draft tomorrow. Don't forget about that. I'm fired up for this show. This is gonna be my, like, mock.

[Todd McShay]

It's gonna be 4.0. Is being turned in tonight. Come back with us tomorrow morning. We will re. We will have the mock reveal show, but I might have to do a Mach 4.1.

[Mitch]

Heads up, Dan. That's coming.

[Joe Douglas]

Dan.

[Mitch]

Don't tell Dan it's coming.

[Todd McShay]

Don't tell Dan. All right, Joe Douglas is up next.

[Chuck]

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[Todd McShay]

Com.

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[Mitch]

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[Todd McShay]

There he is.

[Joe Douglas]

Yes.

[Mitch]

What's up?

[Joe Douglas]

What's up, boys?

[Todd McShay]

It's so good to see you, brother.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, man, it's great to see you guys.

[Todd McShay]

I like the backdrop. You look so official.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got the, got the nice office chair for the larger mammal. So it's good.

[Todd McShay]

I need to invest in one of those. So. So here we are, man. We're like hours, not days from the draft and I know. Exciting.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, Exciting. Yeah. But I mean, I know you guys have poured a ton of work into this draft and it's kind of cool. Like, this is always a special. It's a special weekend in general, but obviously for the Scouts, it's like they're their game, their only game of the season.

[Todd McShay]

I'm curious. So, I mean, we got so many stories to tell and mess around and all that stuff, but I'm just curious like, kind of taking a step back, big picture. Right. For people out there or tuning into the show, like, all right, you've done all the work and we've kind of tried to document the process for everyone. But, like, right now, you know, you're one of 32 sitting in that chair. Like, what is going on on, on Tuesday, Wednesday, like, you, you've got your board set and all. Take us through. What is the general manager. You're doing, like now before the draft.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. So this is, this is the time, like usually this, the scouts come in on either Sunday night or Monday before the draft, and you kind of have a speak now, forever hold your peace, meeting with the coaches and the scouts. You kind of go over the board one more time. You go, you go over the players one more time. And then it's just, you know, maybe tidying up, a few strategy meetings with coordinators with the head coach, putting the plan together. You're gonna, you're gonna go over everything with ownership, basically give them the roadmap for exactly how the night's going to go. Like, okay, like, these are, these are the four players that we'd consider trading up for and we'd be willing to give this up if they're gone. We're happy, we're happy to take any of these five players and we'll turn it in, we'll run it up, no hesitation. Okay. If those guys are gone, we're happy to take this next clump of players. But now we're entertaining calls. We're entertaining trade back calls. So you're, you're, you're just walking, you're walking ownership through that. You're walking, you're making sure you're just, you're just really, you're crossing the T's.in the eyes, making sure there's no surprises.

[Todd McShay]

So you've decided at this point what you'd be willing, like, let's say you want to move up four spots or players falling and you're like, all right, that's. We want to go. You've decided what you're willing to part ways with in order to go move up.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, you know, everyone, everyone, I feel like everyone used to work off the Jimmy Johnson trade chart. I think every team has their own proprietary trade chart now based on their, their team's analytics group. So, you know, you're making the calls ahead of time. Like, we'd have our meetings with the coaching staff around the second week of April, and then in between the, that week of meetings and this week, you're calling teams and you're just trying to get a feel for. Are you willing to trade up? Are you willing to trade back? Like, so you're kind of laying the groundwork now for some trades, and then you really put together, okay, if. If this player is available at this pick, we're willing to. To give this up in a trade. And look, sometimes. Sometimes that scenario happens, and the team, obviously, it takes two to tango, right? Like, the team's just not willing to. To budge, or they want more, or you're willing to trade out, but the team's not willing to give you what you want. So, you know, it's just. You're just working through all those different scenarios.

[Todd McShay]

So. So we're hearing today, right? And I've just had someone in the league text me like, we're hearing this. Can you find out any more information like that there's a team aggressively trying to move up to two even, like, at this point, love for Travis Hunter, right? When you're like, is that surprising to you at this point? That. Is it too late in the process? Is it. Is it surprising that it's happening right now or is just the information's coming out?

[Joe Douglas]

No, it's surprising that that information is coming out. Usually when a move like that happens, it depends on how far back that team is that wants to get to 2. It's a little surprising that. That that's coming out and it may.

[Todd McShay]

Not even be true, but it's.

[Joe Douglas]

Right, it may not be true. It may just be speculation. But, yeah, I mean, you're having those conversations. You're laying the groundwork now.

[Todd McShay]

And.

[Joe Douglas]

And I think there's been cases of teams making that. Making those trades. Usually it's. It's.

[Todd McShay]

It's already happened now.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, but. Or even the day of, if I can remember correctly. I'm not. I can't remember when. When Tom Dimitrov traded up for Julio. Like, I think that might have been a day.

[Todd McShay]

That was that day, right?

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. Yeah, I think it was the day. So when you're making significant jumps, and again, if a team's willing to do that, I don't know how far back they are. Yeah, I mean, that. That could be down. Down to like, an hour before the draft or even on the clock.

[Mitch]

Awesome. Can we talk about the offensive line now or what?

[Todd McShay]

No, not yet. No, not.

[Mitch]

Come on.

[Todd McShay]

No, not. No, no, not yet.

[Joe Douglas]

I mean, when he starts up front, we know that.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, let's talk.

[Mitch]

No, let's talk about the quarterbacks for the night.

[Todd McShay]

No, not. No, not yet, no. I need to know this. I've been fascinated. I can't believe I've never asked you this question before. So let's just do it here.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, this should be good.

[Todd McShay]

So who's in charge of the spread for the weekend? As a general manager, do you get control of what food is being brought in, what the catering situation is? Do you ask scouts in the. Like, does everyone get an opinion or do they get to. How does that whole thing work? Because, like, to me, I mean, outside of picking the player, that's it.

[Joe Douglas]

That's a great question. I mean, usually the team and the ownership, I mean, it's calorie overload. Like, it's. Like it's just an entire spread. Whatever you want. I mean, right there, a buffet. And it's a little. A little outrageous. I mean, there's been a couple requests over the years, and, you know, we're able to get. Get some. Get some certain sandwiches in for the Saturday. Specifically the Saturday of the. Yeah, that's a scout favorite. Like, you know, because that. That last day, I mean, that's really the scouts day. Right. Like, everybody knows the first, second, third round guys, but, like, Right. You know, when you're. When you're diving into day three and undrafted free agent free agency, I mean, that. That's.

[Mitch]

When.

[Joe Douglas]

That's. That's the scouts day.

[Todd McShay]

All right, go ahead with your offensive lineman.

[Joe Douglas]

Let's go, Steve.

[Mitch]

It's about time, man. I just want to get your thoughts on the tackle group. Is there maybe someone that you like more than that? Maybe McShay would like, like, a Josh Simmons. Simmons out of Ohio State or. Yeah. On the board?

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. Josh Simmons, I think, is a freak athlete. I think. I mean, every. Every sport starts from the ground up, and, like, that guy has a lot of natural tools in terms of his ability to sink and bend. He. I mean, he's really gifted. I think, overall, a tackle group, I don't think it's as strong as it was last year. I thought that was an exceptional group last year.

[Mitch]

Agree.

[Joe Douglas]

But I still think that there is. There is a. There's plenty of good offensive linemen in this draft. And I mean, Josh Simmons is. Is one. I mean, he's a very, very. Has elite traits. I think him and Membu, you could argue, probably have the most athletic and physical upside of the entire entire group. But I think there's a flavor for everybody if you want that gritty, nasty, tough guy kind of Logan Mankins yonder vibe. There's. There's a Few of those guys. If you're looking for the elite athlete, you got a couple of those guys. Developmental guys, there's a few of those guys, you know. So I think, I think it's not as top heavy as last year in the tackle group, but it's still a solid group.

[Mitch]

What's your, what's your take on Will Campbell in that whole arm length situation?

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, look again, Will, like I, like I said with Josh, I think from, from the ground up, like, you know, he can bend. He's got great lower flex. He can sink his amazing man. He can uncoil his hips. He has great ankle flexion. Like, he can dig all of his cleats in the ground against the bull rush.

[Todd McShay]

I love you, offensive lineman.

[Mitch]

Let's go.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, man, we're going into this. It's the big man ballet, very technical, like you. So, like, he does a lot of great things, you know, I think he's good with his hands, like from the neck up, too. Like, I think, you know, his, his mind, his processor works fast, you know, I think, I mean, the length is a concern. Some teams are real sticklers for length. Other teams just give me the football player. You know, Will is an absolute dog of a football player. And, you know, I think, you know, I'll say this. You saw it in the super bowl when length showed up. And Joe Thuney's an all pro guard and he's one of the best offensive linemen to ever lace him up, but he played out a position at left tackle, and I think you saw the Eagles able to exploit a lack of length there. So I think it did show up on tape. But at the end of the day, I mean, that dude's a baller. I mean, that dude is a hell of a football player.

[Mitch]

Agree.

[Todd McShay]

There's some business to take care of here, men. I've got to host this, this crazy thing you're doing with Jay Glazer. You're going to work with Jay Glazer and the crew for Fox Sports, right? And their producer wanted to make sure that, that we, they wanted us to make sure we got the information out there. I'll say, like, it is absolutely going to be the second best thing that you want to tune into on draft night outside of the McShay show with mention I live streaming. No, but seriously, this sounds fun. Listen to this. Ment. You ready? I don't think you know the exact details. Tune into Fox Sports Radio draft night. Right. Thursday night, 8pm Eastern, throughout the first round. You've got Glazer Joey D. LaVar Arrington, college football hall of Famer. Right. And Jenny Taft who's like all over this thing. Jenny Taft's awesome. She's awesome at what she does. So covering all 32 picks, predictions, reactions, everything you could imagine just to have like Joe's like intel and, and analysis, like, I don't know. That's a great roster. It's a great roster. So, yeah, we're gonna have fun.

[Joe Douglas]

We're gonna have fun, man. And you know, Jay, Jay is the absolute best at intel and you know, I'm sure, I'm sure there's going to be someone that Lavar likes a lot that goes really, really high that we'll be able to talk about early in the night. Sure, we're going to have a good time. We're going to have a good time. Sure there's going to be a lot of laughs. But also, you know, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to talk about these guys and, and what they can do and how they can help the team that drafts them. So it's going to be exciting.

[Todd McShay]

So that's on Fox Sports Radio and also a live stream simulcast on fox Sports Radio YouTube page. So check Joe Joe out there. I made Joe Joe promise before he would, did, went and did something big and media thing when he's, you know, doing, just kind of hanging right now that he would come on with us and he is always good, good to his word. How you been, man? Everything good?

[Joe Douglas]

I, I'm having a blast, you know, just being able to sink my teeth into this draft class. Not, not, not letting the draft class go without getting to know the players and yeah, you know, evaluate evaluating all these guys and you know, you know, thankful, thankful for the evening that I'm gonna have on Thursday with Jay and, and Jenny and Levar. I think again, I think we're gonna have a lot of fun, but it's good, man. It's been, it's been fun and just, just staying in, staying in it, you know. And yeah. Excited, excited about this week and excited about the future.

[Mitch]

I gotta ask, man, like, when you became a free agent and you're sitting there and you're evaluating things in your life, did you ever think about, you know, changing courses and getting back into the acting career? Because I don't know if everyone knows about this, man, but, but Joe's brilliant performance and the replacements, a little 2000 film starring Keanu Reeves.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I forgot about that. Oh, yeah.

[Mitch]

John Wick, seven with Joe Douglas, I'm here for it.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Do you still have your SAG card?

[Mitch]

You still talk to Keanu?

[Joe Douglas]

You know, I, I think, I think he lost my number at some point over the last 26 years. We did that back in 1999. I can't believe. Like, that's, that's wild.

[Mitch]

You killed it, man.

[Todd McShay]

Who else?

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, we had fun.

[Todd McShay]

Who else was in that with you?

[Joe Douglas]

It was Jasper.

[Todd McShay]

Jasper. And then.

[Joe Douglas]

And then Wyman. Wyman had a. Seth Wyman had a role speaking behind the dad that was also in Something about Mary when he was talking like the union rapid of the movie.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Joe Douglas]

Seth made a cameo, but me and Jasper were the. Me and Jasper were the. The two Richmond guys in pads is crazy because, you know, Seth's brother's girlfriend did all the movies and, or the commercials that came through the D.C. metro area. We just finished playing at Richmond and she was like, hey, they're doing a movie. You should go try out. So it was me and Jasper Wyman. Elio, of course, Elio Ambernoni.

[Todd McShay]

And people may know him as iceman now.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. Mr. Ice. Mr. Ice.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I made the mistake of introducing Elio, our good friend.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, you can't talk enough about Elio. He's.

[Todd McShay]

He's one of the all timer.

[Joe Douglas]

He's a true character in life.

[Todd McShay]

I introduced him. So I was doing college games. I think I was going around with like Mike Godfrey back in the day. Yeah, I think that was, I mean, I know I was. I think that was the point in time when I was going around and kind of helping Mike Godfrey out in that Saturday night SEC package for espn. Right. It was. Just started my career. So I introduced Elio to Portnoy because they were both like, I was leaving for the weekend. And so I come back on Sunday night, come back. I think I was like, mississippi State, get back in. And I, I. And I'm like, where are you guys? You know? And finally after like five phone calls, their cell phone, one of them picked up. They're like, it's not good. And I'm like, what do you mean? I think it's hangover. We messed up. No, no, Nope, not good. They. They met two of the biggest degenerate gamblers.

[Joe Douglas]

Oh, yeah. The stars align.

[Todd McShay]

And I, I didn't even think. I'm like, yeah, you guys should hang out. Like, I'm gonna be gone this week. You guys should hang out. You're both in the city. And they lost like $24,000 combined in, in the first weekend they met. And then and like they're now closer friends than I am, even with, with Elio or Portnoy. And I grew up with Portnoy. So, yeah, that was, that's, that's.

[Joe Douglas]

It couldn't have been a perfect, a more perfect match of degenerates coming together to form like a Justice League of, of their, of what they do best.

[Todd McShay]

No question.

[Joe Douglas]

But I mean, he, we could do this. I mean, I've told people like you could, you could write probably a 15 season sitcom about just our five years.

[Todd McShay]

Do you ever think back on like, like what? Do you ever think back on like all the. Richmond was a tiny school, a tiny program and all like Joe Cullen now like super bowl champ, like defensive line coach and all, but not just like where everyone's gone on, but the absolute lunacy that was going on in that place.

[Joe Douglas]

Oh, it's, it's amazing. Like, people like my people used to love to hear. Other scouts would love to hear the stories, the University of Richmond stories. And there are dozens and dozens and dozens of them, you know, and I.

[Mitch]

Know I could share right now.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, we don't have enough time to go. I mean, we could do a whole series, like years of it. But I know you guys had, you guys were on Suse or with Suse. Yeah, yeah. And you're talking about the private Fortenberry story with Elio. You know, just, just the fact that University of Richmond had 10 co. At least 10 coaches on staff and three strength conditioning coaches. And by like two years into Elio's time there, they were just like, hands up, like, hey, rotc, you take this guy every morning. We're, we're just so tired.

[Todd McShay]

So. Elio was such a handful. Elio was such a handful that, that they, they finally, Jim Reed, our, our coach at the time, the head coach, Jim Reed finally was like, fine, like, I can't do it, so I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna hand you to rotc. And he would have to. We would go out and would party on like a, you know, after a game on a Saturday night or some, or in the offseason. And he would have to wake up at like 4:30 in the morning every morning and go run every day. Every day. I don't know how long it felt like it went on for like over a year.

[Joe Douglas]

They could, no, this is.

[Todd McShay]

Plural.

[Joe Douglas]

But, but Elio, Elio refused to conform. Obviously you couldn't bring Elio. Elio had it figured out before any of us. Like we all went into Richmond, like trying to figure out what we were going to do in life, like, right. Knew exactly what he was going to do.

[Todd McShay]

Take over his dad's business off the boat.

[Joe Douglas]

Have as much fun as humanly possible. Gamble as much. Literally screaming. Summer school. We're upstairs in the department. I hear him screaming. He's literally watching every pitch of a game on. On the Internet. 1997 Internet, you know, like, because there's no ticket back then. So, like, he's, like, living and dying with every pitch for, like, a Reds game. And you're like.

[Todd McShay]

And. And meanwhile. And meanwhile, Mark Megna, who got drafted and went and played the NFL jets and the Patriots, they were roommates.

[Mitch]

How were they?

[Todd McShay]

And Mark was like a drill serge. He was like, officer gentleman, like, screws loose. And I mean that in the best way, too, but, like, insanely committed. And. And, like, I remember one time walking into. I walked into their apartment, and he. And Mark got so fed up with his nonsense, he took his head and he threw it into the. Into the wall. And. And Elio's head's in the wall, like, the drywall. He can, like, see inside the wood. Oh, my gosh.

[Joe Douglas]

He used to make Elio go into the closet for time out. That's. That is true. I witnessed it.

[Mitch]

Didn't Elio get a touchdown his freshman year? And then they interviewed him after the game.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, it was like the second to last. It was the second to last.

[Mitch]

Richard was like, two and whatever.

[Todd McShay]

Right? Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

The head coach was. Was getting ready to be fired.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Joe Douglas]

That was the year before Coach Reed came.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

And so the second to last game, they completely wasted Elio's red shirt, threw him in. I forget the team. He had a touchdown. Literally, first time he touched the ball, he had a touchdown because he's just such a natural.

[Mitch]

And then they interview him after the game, though, when he predicts.

[Joe Douglas]

Interview after the game, he's like, I guarantee you're gonna beat William and Mary. I guarantee it. He literally played in five minutes of one game, and he's just laying the gauntlet out. I think William Aaron is, like, the best team in the league that year. He's like, I guarantee we're gonna beat them. We did not, but I think it.

[Mitch]

Was, like, 13.

[Joe Douglas]

You know, all the freshmen. I mean, the side. You should have seen the sideline when Elio came back from scoring his touchdown. Like, we were all. All the guys that were red shirting were so excited. We just mobbed him, you know, because he was such a great. He was good. He just made things fun. He just made things Fun. Because, like, I say this a lot about. About Todd. You mentioned it, like, all the guys that came out of Richmond that have stayed in football. Right.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

One shape, one way or the other. Coach, scouting, media, whatever. Like, Jim Reed made sure the team was loaded with people who loved football.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

But it was also really hard. It was really. We were all we had. And Elio was such a great teammate because he would always make us laugh.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Joe Douglas]

You know, he'd always like that more than anything in the most miserable time. You know, like, he's gonna. Like, we're in. We're in the locker room. It's like, 5:00. We're getting ready for Matt drills, and I'm sitting next to Elio, and he just does Amy from Congo, the gorilla. And he's just like, amy, run sprints. Amy, throw up today. You know, you're just like. You can't help but laugh. You're just dying.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

We were talking about Coach Leonard the other day, and you mean, it was tough to play for him, but he was just so great how much he cared about you. And then he let us have fun. He let us be ourselves as much as it was. I mean, the schedule was insane, man. I mean, especially when you're a freshman there, you had no. They gave you no free time. It was a tough program to go through. Through. But Leonard was. Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

Six days of study hall.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Leonard was great about being tough on you, but still letting you be kind of your own guy and having some fun with it, man.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. And if you. If you. If you did things the right way for Coach Leonard, he had your back.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah. Time. He was gonna fight for you all the time. And he just. He's just one of the most loyal coaches I ever played for. One of the best coaches I ever played for.

[Todd McShay]

It's great to see you, brother. Yeah, it's good to see that.

[Joe Douglas]

We could do this for hours.

[Todd McShay]

I'm telling you, the. The year that I took off from. From what I was doing was that turned out to be. And I didn't know it in the time, and I was, you know, frustrated about certain things, but, like, it was. It turned out to be the best blessing that ever happened in my life. And I. I see it in you, like, can't wait to see what, you know, where you decide what you choose. I'm sure a ton of things you'll choose from, but.

[Mitch]

John Wick, seven.

[Todd McShay]

John Wick, seven. But we love you and we appreciate you taking the time. Excited to see what you're doing with Glazer, what you're doing next and can't wait to catch up without catch up with you out here in la, man.

[Joe Douglas]

Yeah, man. Love you guys. Thanks for having me on.

[Todd McShay]

All right, we'll talk to you soon.

[Joe Douglas]

All right.

[Todd McShay]

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