NFL Combine Recap: The Workout Warriors, Risers, and Lessons from Indy

Summary

The McShay Show

Episode: NFL Combine Recap: The Workout Warriors, Risers, and Lessons from Indy
Date: March 2, 2026
Host: Todd McShay (with Daniel Jeremiah)
Podcast Network: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the 2026 NFL Scouting Combine, examining which prospects impressed the most ("workout warriors"), who solidified or raised their draft stock ("risers"), and what real lessons emerged from a wild week in Indianapolis ("lessons from Indy"). Todd McShay and Daniel Jeremiah blend evaluations of key performances with insider stories and takeaways from conversations with NFL GMs and scouts, revealing the next steps as draft season intensifies.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Context and Theme: Lessons Beyond the 40-yard Dash

• The hosts emphasize that while record-setting athletic feats made headlines (fastest DB and WR classes ever, eye-popping jumps and sprints), interviews and character assessments at the combine remain far more important than workouts.
• Multiple stories highlight how decision-makers try to balance testing results with the actual needs of their teams and the personality fits inside NFL locker rooms.

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2. Debunking Combine "Conspiracy Theories"

[02:28 - 04:09]

• Daniel Jeremiah calls out social media rumors that the combine timing track was "fast" or that times were "cooked":

  "Here’s the thing: if the jumps match up with the times, where’s the problem?... There were some guys that didn’t run well, and a lot of guys didn’t run because I don’t think they thought they could put up times. If you did run this year at the combine, you benefited." (Daniel Jeremiah, 02:28)

• The duo concludes: The data from jumps and sprints correlated, and most outlier performances were earned.

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3. Most Important Combine Component: The Interview

[04:09 - 07:00]

• Todd McShay reiterates a core draft axiom:

  “Interviews at the combine have always been, and will always be, more important.” (Todd McShay, 04:09)

• He explains that obsessing over physical “outliers” misses the point if a player is the right fit for your building and culture.

• Daniel Jeremiah adds:

  “The vast majority of the star wide receivers... are like 4.43 to 4.58, honestly. If you went back and looked at the numbers... a lot of those guys were in the four-fives, man.” (Daniel Jeremiah, 05:46)

• McShay emphasizes intelligence, craft, and toughness as key characteristics shared among the best NFL players.

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4. Workout Warrior of the Week: Sonny Styles' Dominance

[07:00 - 12:12]

• Daniel Jeremiah zeroes in on Ohio State’s Sonny Styles’ unmatched combine:

  • Stats: 6'5", 244 lbs, 43.5” vertical (positional record), 4.56 forty (tied best in group), 11'2" broad jump.
  • “He’s one of one in this class... He’s so very clearly one of the three best players in this draft.” (Daniel Jeremiah, 09:58)

• Sonny Styles’ stock is now so high, Jeremiah believes he could go as high as #2 overall to the Jets:

  “I honestly think it’s a possibility... Are we going to pass on a generational talent... for a guy that’s an edge rusher...?” (Daniel Jeremiah, 11:12)

• Conversation on positional value: Teams appear ready to make exceptions for generational talents, even if the position isn’t traditionally drafted top-5.

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5. Draft Board Shakeup: Jeremiah Love and Caleb Downs

[12:12 - 15:36]

• Jeremiah Love (RB) and Caleb Downs (DB/safety) are forecasted as potential top-5 locks.
• Teams are wrestling with devalued positional norms (off-ball linebacker, running back) not matching rare blue-chip grades.
• Daniel Jeremiah:

  “The two players I just truly don’t think are going to get out of the top five despite the positions they play are Jeremiah Love and Sonny Styles.” (Daniel Jeremiah, 13:21)

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6. Quarterback Clarity: Ty Simpson’s Stock Surges

[16:27 - 19:34]

• McShay and Jeremiah discuss the evolving market for Ty Simpson, who is now considered likely to go as high as #6 overall after a strong throwing session at the Combine and health updates.

• Notable exchange on Simpson vs. Mendoza as QB1:

  “If you put 35 starts next to Ty Simpson’s name... I think there would be a legitimate debate between the two.” (Daniel Jeremiah, 19:35)

• McShay disagrees that Simpson’s tape is on par with Mendoza’s, but both see his upside and positional value as fuel for a top-10 selection.

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7. Biggest Risers and Standout Performers

[25:44 - 38:08]

Todd McShay and Daniel Jeremiah each highlight three major risers:

1. Taylor Green (QB, Arkansas)

• 6’6”, 227 lbs, 4.36 forty, 9 7/8” hands.
• “When you add all these things up and he goes out and competes and runs like that, he’s on his way up. I think Taylor Green solidified himself as a top 100 pick.” (McShay, 27:35)

2. Dylan Thienaman (S, Oregon)

• 6’0”, 204 lbs, 4.35 forty, 41” vert, 10’5” broad.
• “His interviews... you want him to be that captain... what you see on tape is pretty damn special. I think if nothing else, he has created for some teams... a debate on [which safety is truly next].” (Jeremiah, 29:42)

3. Chris Johnson (CB, San Diego State)

• 6’0”, 193 lbs, 4.40 forty, 38” vert, 10’6” broad.
• “After maybe a bumpy start to the offseason, he’s going back in the right direction. I’m excited for him.” (McShay, 31:42)

4. Eli Stowers (TE, Texas Tech)

• 6’4”, 240 lbs, 32 5/8” arms, 4.51 forty, 45.5” vert (tight end record), 11’3” broad.
• “Stowers went from in a pack with other tight ends to absolutely tight end two. Teams are really intrigued with the chess piece he can become.” (Jeremiah, 35:04)

5. Malachi Lawrence (Edge, UCF)

• 6’4”, 253 lbs, 33 5/8” arms, 4.52 forty, 40” vert, 10’10” broad.
• “Motor, motor, this kid gets after it... The way he chases is impressive.” (McShay, 35:15)

6. Jeff Caldwell (WR, Cincinnati)

• 6’5”, 216 lbs, 32 7/8” arms, 4.31 forty, 42” vert, 11’2” broad.
• “I don’t know that anyone put up the same combination of measurements and results that Jeff Caldwell from Cincinnati did.” (Jeremiah, 36:05)

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8. Offensive Line: Wild Variance, No Clear OT1

[38:20 - 44:20]

• Discussion focuses on the challenges for teams projecting O-linemen who posted wild athletic numbers but have outlier measurables that can be “red flags” for some (i.e., short arms).

• Fano (BYU):

  • Short arms (32 1/8”), but tested extremely well (sub-5.0 forty, great agility).
  • “There’s going to be a lot of momentum for him as OT1... but I kind of prefer Maui Noah because I know he’s going to start at right tackle.” (Jeremiah, 42:53)

• Rutledge (Georgia Tech):

  • Interior projection, “glass eating SOB”, 4.54 short shuttle at 6’4”, 316.
  • “Rutledge was a big winner... shows the body control, traps, and pulling ability.” (Jeremiah, 40:34)

• Blake Freeling (OT):

  • 6’7”+, 315 lbs, 34 ¾” arms, 4.93 forty.
  • “Traits vs experience and tape, but my gosh, man, his workout was exceptional.” (Jeremiah, 43:51)

• McShay’s take:

  “I just don’t think there’s that guy that’s clear the best offensive lineman… The best offensive lineman is Penn State guard Venga Ioone... He is the guard.” (McShay, 44:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Interviews at the combine have always been, and will always be, more important.”
  (Todd McShay, 04:09)

• “Are we going to pass on a generational talent who’s an instant leader... for a guy that’s an edge rusher?”
  (Daniel Jeremiah on Sonny Styles, 11:12)

• “There are a lot of corners that performed well… but Chris Johnson, San Diego State. Here we go. We were worried about the speed. No problem. 4.40.”
  (Todd McShay, 31:42)

• “Stowers… went from in a pack to absolutely tight end two. Teams are really intrigued with the chess piece he can become.”
  (Daniel Jeremiah, 35:04)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |-------------------------------|-----------------| | Combine “Conspiracy” Debunked | 02:28 – 04:09 | | Importance of Interviews | 04:09 – 07:00 | | Sonny Styles/Workout Warriors | 07:00 – 12:12 | | Jeremiah Love & Caleb Downs | 12:12 – 15:36 | | Ty Simpson QB Discourse | 16:27 – 19:34 | | Combine Risers: Top 6 | 25:44 – 38:08 | | Offensive Line Recap | 38:20 – 44:20 |

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Tone and Language

The conversation is high-energy, occasionally playful but always rooted in meticulous evaluation and deep insider knowledge. McShay and Jeremiah balance excitement about rare athletic feats with cold realism about pro projection. Their back-and-forth typifies draftnik banter, featuring some fun competitive ribbing and strong but reasoned disagreement (especially on the Mendoza vs. Simpson QB debate).

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Conclusion

This episode provides a masterclass in how to read NFL combine results with real-world draft implications in mind. McShay and Jeremiah urge listeners not to get lost in the 40-yard dash headlines and combine “winners”—true risers must still be “blues” in interviews and football IQ. The next critical phase: narrowing top-100 boards and sorting through a draft class short on elite tackles/edges, but flush with outliers and a handful of true blue-chippers like Sonny Styles, Jeremiah Love, and Caleb Downs.

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For further in-depth draft content and analysis, subscribe to The McShay Report.

Transcript

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The 2026 NFL Scouting Combine is in the books. And I'll be honest, I learned a whole hell of a lot more than I expected to. Just 52 days until the NFL draft. Bench.

[Todd McShay]

You good? I'm good, man.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right. Roll that beat. Here we go. Y' all caught up?

[Todd McShay]

Am I all caught up? I don't know about that. I'm trying to catch up.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You get any rest?

[Todd McShay]

A little bit.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean, you weren't feeling great last week. You do you. You hanging in there?

[Todd McShay]

I'm trying. It's. I mean, I don't know. I don't think anyone wants to hear about my chest cold. I could. I think they can hear it in here in, you know, in the audio. I do get a lot of comments on X about have got a smoker's cough. I don't know what that's about. I mean, lay off, guys. Don't get a guy while he's down.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean, you fought through. I wouldn't say, like admirably, but you fought through it.

[Todd McShay]

I think it was very admirably.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think it was great how you and I have very different opinions on what admirably is, but. But you fought through. I'm joking.

[Todd McShay]

All right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's in the books, man. Yesterday was wild. We'll get to the offensive line a little bit. I've learned a lot this year. I learned this, this year's group and people, you know, conspiracy theorists are coming out and the. The track was faster. The electronic times were, were, were, were cooked. You know, they saw that coming. Of course we did. And you know what? Maybe they were slightly faster. But here's the thing I always go to. As you read all these conspiracy theories, if the jumps Match up with the times. Where's the problem? So this would have. This would have to be like some deep state stuff where they, like, actually matched up the 40s and the broad jumps, which are indicators, typically the 40. I mean, the. The vertical jump more so than the broad. But they would have to have really worked hard to get these times to a point where people were, you know, where it was newsworthy and all that. Here's the thing. There were some guys that didn't run well, and a lot of guys ran well, and a lot of guys didn't run because I don't think that they thought they could put up times. And you know what? If you did run this year at the combine, you were, you know, you, You. You benefited from it. So if I asked you this, Mitch, we spent what, seven days in Indianapolis, talked to a lot of people, sat down with six general managers, watched every single workout, had a lot of conversations on the side, watch, taped all that stuff. Give me a. I'm not saying it's the number one takeaway, it's the biggest thing for, but give me a takeaway that you walked away from Indianapolis and as you're flying back, back to the northeast that really, like, kind of dug home for you.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not reinventing the wheel here. Okay? I. I know that this is a. A take that we pretty much have every year, but I think it's really important to go back, especially after sitting down with all these GMs and listening to them talk about their process. And I'm also not trying to be a downer. I love that it was the fastest DB class, the fastest wide receiver class. You know, all. All these guys are going out there breaking records. I love that there's a lot of talent in this class, but interviews at the combine have always been. It will always be more important. And one of the other things I want to try to be as. As concise about this as possible, so stop me if I get start to get off the rails is we talked about outliers with GMs, right? So these guys that are, you know, too short of arms or too slow or whatever, I think it's important to remember that you want to. You want to get the best players that are going to fit in your building. And I think of a guy like Jeremy Bernard who didn't have the fastest 40 time. All these guys are blazing, but I thought had just had great, great combine, to be honest. He ran a 448. That's great for him.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He's.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's not an outlier term.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Excellent three cone.

[Todd McShay]

Right? Right. So he's not a guy that you're looking at and been like, oh, he just blew up the combine. Right. And we've been talking about Jeremy Bernard all year and he's kind of flying over the radar. Chris Brazil, you see what Chris Brazel did, bench all of these things. Just remember what it's about. Remember, it's about finding the right guys for your program. And if they check the boxes in terms of these workouts and we hit on this during the week, sometimes it's not the best thing to be the fastest guy. It's about being the best football player and about the guy who's going to fit best in the building. So, again, not reinventing the wheel, but I want to just make sure we're keeping perspective of what this is. We. The. The NFL is not a track meet. It's not what it is.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The vast majority of the star wide receivers, if you just go down and look at whether it's this, you know, past year or the past five years in the NFL and the most productive receivers, vast majority of them are like 4, 43 to 4, 4, 5, 8, honestly. And it would shock you if you went back and looked at the numbers. How many of those guys that might be in the top 20 of your wide receivers in the NFL ran a number that was like a 4, 48-02558, you know, like, and then you. I went through the list the other day, like, from. From D Hop to Cooper cup to like, there. There's just a lot of devonte Adams, like, a lot of those guys were in the four fives, man.

[Todd McShay]

And there's a common thread with all of them. The JSNs of the world, you know, Devonte Adams, Puka, all these. You go back and you talk to their coaches and you talk to. To people who have been around them. They always talk about how smart they are and how dedicated to the craft they are. Like, it's a common theme.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And physical. Every one of those. Cooper cup physical. Puka, ultimate physicality. Devonte, physical master of his craft. All those guys.

[Todd McShay]

So, so exciting to see all those numbers. And I love it. And I think there's a lot of depth in this class and, and there's a lot of talent and all of that stuff. But this was about the interviews and that's. That's. I think it's important to keep that in mind.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm gonna go more poignant and just kind of drill in. I think as I was Sitting on the plane right near a couple rows in front of me, sitting with Matt Hasselbeck and I've got, you know, Jeremy Fowler's there and Breer sitting behind me. And it was kind of a, it was a good group flying from Indy to Indy to Boston yesterday. And I'm kind of going through on my phone and reviewing all my notes and, and typing up some notes for the newsletter, which is out by the way. You check it out, the McShay report, Google it, subscribe it to me. It was kind of, kind of about what are the biggest takeaways? What did we learn? Who are the guys that actually based off of what they did in Indy and not just the 40 time like all the workouts plus the interviews and what we're hearing kind of are going to start shooting up boards and so yeah, dig in there if you, if you'd like to. It'll be in your inbox if you subscribe. I can't get over Sonny Styles. I I want to rewind a week ago, right. And all the talk was wait till you see what Arvell Reese and Sunny Styles do. Right. Very similar s in the six fours in the two forties. They're both going to work out extremely well and they both did. The two things that I wasn't quite ready for was the level of the workout for Sonny Styles combined with the size. Like Sonny Styles was 6 5. Man, that 5 is different than looking at a 6. 041 for Arvell Reese. That's different. 244 versus 241. And again, this isn't like a necessarily a comp or a knock on anything. Orville Reese ran a 446 right tied with Sonny Stiles. But it was combining all these things. 43 and a half inch vertical which is a combined record for the when you, when you combine the height and the position never been seen before. 156 was the fastest of of the whole group. 456 was tied for best with with Arvell Reese's. We talked about 112 broad best in group. And then you start to talk to GMs and personnel directors and guys who have been meeting with him and guys who have individual scouts on staff. And I actually talked to someone who spent a lot of time in Columbus too. He's an executive in the league but was kind of consulting with Ohio State for a while and he was like man, he's one of one in this class and he's in the very, very short and some other people. He's going to run a company one like, so you combine all those things in a class where we don't have an offensive tackle, we don't have an edge, we got one quarterback at the top. And we'll talk about the second one maybe in a little bit. You don't have those elite players at the premium positions. And I think Sonny, like, it's one thing to be like Jeff, Jeff Caldwell from Cincinnati and to have that kind of workout and to go from maybe sixth to late third, fourth. Right. That's a massive jump in terms of his, his like slot in the draft may have like jumped up the most or one of them, the short list. But Styles going from maybe like 7, 8, 9, like somewhere, you know, bottom somewhere 5, 6 to 10 to now, it's like teams are going to have to make a tough call on. Do we want to draft an off ball linebacker in the top five? But he's so very clearly one of the three best players in this draft. That, that to me was the standout.

[Todd McShay]

So Dan, don't get mad at me. Do you want to share with what you said in the newsletter about where you think he could go, where the starting point for Sonny Styles is now? Well,

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Nugget, let's just have this conversation

[Todd McShay]

because it caught my eye.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What caught your eye? Go ahead, say it.

[Todd McShay]

That you think that he'd go as high as two to the jets, is that right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I, I did. And I, I wouldn't say it's a probability, but I honestly think it's, it's a possibility. I think he forced the jets hand and maybe Arizona's hands, maybe Tennessee, maybe the Giants, to look and say, are we going to pass on a generational talent who is an instant leader, you know, a character of this team for a guy that's an edge rusher who's really, really good in David Bailey or even an Arvell Reese or. That's about it, to be honest with you. You're not drafting a short arm to Ruben Bane. As great as he is at number two overall when you have Bailey. And here, here's the other thing, and not for the Jets. I talked a lot this past week because I'm just sharing conversations I'm having with decision makers in the league. All of us. You walk away from this combine and it's, it's part of, it's just the conversations that are being had, but it's also watching Jeremiah Love run, what, a four, three, six?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And then, and, and honestly, you want, you want to know what was more important the Way he's running routes, catching the ball and you know what I mean? Yeah. I think the market for Jeremiah Love starts at three with Arizona. I'm back on that. Remember my first mock draft, Arizona, we're like, that feels, it feels icky. I'm back on that. And I think, I think four in Tennessee is like think about Dable. Think about what, you know, came Scatterboo a year ago. He pushed for two players in that draft and got him. Yep. Couldn't get Cam Ward. They tried and then it was, it was Scatter Boo and, and, and Jackson dart in refer. Reverse order. So. And then at 5 with the Giants, Scatter was coming off an injury. He's not going to be a guy who can carry the load for you every single year like that. It's just, it's, it's not possible the way he runs. So I don't. Jeremiah loves not getting out of the top five. Okay. And I think he's the best player in this draft. I think then it goes to Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs, to be honest with you, is the next two best players in this draft. And Caleb Downs is, has. It would feel a lot better if Caleb Downs had the length and the, and the workout numbers that we just saw from Sonny Styles. I think Caleb Downs is probably still in that 6 to 10 range. But, but I put most teams I talk to consider him one of the three, four best players in this entire draft class. So those are the fascinating conversations with me that for me and when I'm talking to guys in the league, the two players I just truly don't think are going to get out of the top five despite the positions they play are Jeremiah Love and Sonny Styles. That's, that's the biggest takeaway walking away from this draft is that those guys are just so different. And the workout numbers and what you see from them and the interviews as teams are starting to really get to know and drill down, they're so different that it's like, yeah, I wish I didn't have to draft a running back or an off ball linebacker here, but I don't care because their, their grades just stand out as a much higher level or like a noticeably higher level than a lot of those other guys who are really good players, but they're not considered blues, as NFL teams would call him, you know. So was it the old Giddings report? Is that where that started?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Forever since like 2005 is probably the last time that came out of my, my Mouth. But there was an old Giddings report. Not just similar. There was like a national scouting and blessedo scouting for the college guys. And the Giddings report would, would color code players based off of. Off of like, what tier they are, you know, and the blues were the elites, the blue chips, you know, and then it would be like reds and yellows, and I got to go look up the old thing. But. Yeah, so, so you, you want a roster full of blues and reds, but you take, you take blues over reds. And I, I'm telling you right now, Jeremiah Love, by any account and measurement, Jeremiah Love and Sunny Styles are blues.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So. And despite the, the lack of length and, and everything you look for, and we'll see what the workout numbers are. Caleb Downs is a blue football player.

[Todd McShay]

I hear you. I, I don't disagree with any of that. It's.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, the top of the board is going to be fascinating.

[Todd McShay]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, and also, I will say one thing. It doesn't feel icky to put Love at third, you know, And I know, like, I'm not trying to nitpick here, but it's not icky. I, I'm fine with it because of all these points you made. It's just rare and unusual. So it feels uncomfortable. Right. It's like, I don't. I'm not really doing this because I would never do this. And I think it's even more uncomfortable because Ashton Genti. God, I love Ashton Genti. Love Ashton Genti. And we saw what could happen when you, when you take a running back and you're not in a position to kind of support him. So. But here's the thing. We do this. We do this all the time. We have this instant analysis. If Ashton Genti is an all pro running back in two years, who cares? Like, you know, like, we want to do this thing where. Well, they shouldn't have taken him because it didn't work out his rookie year and it doesn't look good now. We'll see how this plays out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Remember my last, last mock draft. Shifting gears here. And I wasn't planning on doing this, but I don't. Who cares? My last mock draft, when the first line after I put Ty Simpson to The Rams at 13 was. Wait for it.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'm getting dressed in my, in my bedroom 30 minutes ago. I'm. I was clothed, so don't have a, don't have a bad mental picture. Brushing my teeth. I got one of those electrical ones, right?

[Todd McShay]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Put the toothpaste on. Rinse it. Get, you know, get some water on top of the toothpaste, getting ready to insert in mouth and press the button. Mine's loud. I feel like it's gotten louder. It might be time to. To get a new one.

[Todd McShay]

You got to change the heads. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But I hear. All of a sudden, I hear out of the. Because it's. I'm in the bathroom and I hear in the bedroom, it's Ty Simpson. Something. I pressed the button. I was like. I was like, what do they say? So I watch. It's get up, right? It's Orlovsky. It's Tannenbaum, obviously Greeny. I feel like there's someone else in the set, but I. It might have just been the three of them. Anyway, so I'm standing there now with toothpaste in my mouth. It's not buzzing. It's just sitting there. And I'm listening for about two minutes. And it started in on. I think it was Orlovsky talking about how great he threw and then just talking about what the tape he watched. But then the conversation pivots to how. How early is too early. You know where we are now?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we're right where you said he was gonna go. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

No. Or no, we've.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, no, no. They did go up, right?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Six to Cleveland is where they think it's.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's the starting point.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I do love.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. I love if anyone's watching on Netflix or. Or Spotify the fireworks.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

What do you want?

[Todd McShay]

What do you want? I don't. I'm trying to figure out what else I can do. I mean, I don't know. I don't even know.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I can't.

[Todd McShay]

The possibilities are endless.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Okay. Any. Any reaction.

[Todd McShay]

You're. I hate that you're right again, but I'm not surprised.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I mean, that's not why I'm doing this. I'm not. No, no, no.

[Todd McShay]

I'm just telling you I know you're not doing it. That for that reason, but I don't like it. I still cannot like the fact that you're right again. But it's also not surprising because obviously people like the way he threw the other day. He's. Now we know more than we did when we're like, the wheels were coming off at the end of the year. None of that's surprising. He's a really good player. When you add positional value, teams that need a quarterback. The fact he's healthier now that he had a good workout at the combine. It does not surprise me that this is happening. It won't surprise me either if a quarterback three starts sneaking into that late first, early second round range conversation. Even though I don't think it should happen. It won't surprise me if it does.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

That would surprise me. I think the gap. Here's what I. What I think. I don't think there's as massive a gap. And I've said this from the beginning, and there's some people in the league that agree with me, some don't.

[Todd McShay]

There.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

If. If you put 35 starts next to Ty Simpson's name and he had the same quality of tape where there were a few games at the end of the year, I think honestly we'd have a conversation. I think. I think there would be a legitimate debate between the two.

[Todd McShay]

Between him and Mendoza.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Absolutely.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. You can't have the year that Mendoza had to say that. We're just going to have that debate. You can't do what Mendoza.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I. I can and I will. I. I honestly got through nine. Through nine games. Ty Simpson is a better quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

No, not true. I mean, I've heard you say this before. You know what this is. Why?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

For not pushing back. Have you gone and watched the first eight, nine games?

[Todd McShay]

Of course I have.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's underwhelming outside. It's. It's actually underwhelming.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's underwhelming. You. You and I both know it is. And that's okay because he has flaws.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think underwhelming in saying that his person has floss is the same thing.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

It's underwhelming for a player that we're just absolute. Everyone like, yep, number one overall pick. Let's. The draft starts at two. We don't even need to talk about Mendoza anymore. We'll do some highlight packages and feature him in a couple things. But he's the number one overall pick. I'm telling you, through nine games of the season, if you just watch those tapes and know nothing else, Ty Simpsons is better. It's a fact.

[Todd McShay]

We're just. We're going to throw out Florida State or are we not throwing out Florida State?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Florida State wasn't as bad as people want to say. Go back and watch that tape. Watch the underwhelming of the left rail.

[Todd McShay]

Would you. Would you call it underwhelming?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you what. It was better than Iowa. It was better than Oregon. I promise you. Go back, take some time as you're nursing your Head cold. Go back and watch Florida State. And then what? And then watch Iowa and watch Oregon.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

The difference is Mendoza had moments that were unbelievable. And the toughness, like,

[Todd McShay]

isn't that what it is about?

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Part of it? Yeah, but. But so did Ty. My point is from that point on as his team was flourishing and getting better each and every week, the defense is awesome. You get Hemby and Black running the rock. He's throwing the ball 21, 23, 25 times a game. Simpson protection starts to fail. No 126 ranked run game.

[Todd McShay]

These are all facts.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

This is. It's like if. If. It's like if two of his wide receivers now, fine. It's one of his. If his star wide receiver Surat or Omar Cooper just can't catch the ball anymore and disappears. And then what we. When you said something, it's important to give context because not everyone's following this as madly as we are. The new information was. And I knew about some injuries. I knew the Rose bowl with the rib. I knew he didn't throw. He wanted to play in the Senior Bowl. He couldn't because of the rib injury. He wasn't even cleared to throw till after the Senior Bowl. What we didn't know was the gastritis because of all the beating he took. He was down to £190 by the time they get to the Rose Bowl. So I'm just telling you. But it's scary to draft a quarterback who's 61 struggle to stay healthy in his one year as a starter and has 15 starts. I'm not saying even I would do that. Okay. Especially given Cleveland's offensive line and lack of weapons. I actually don't think I. That I'll be really upset for Ty Simpson and his future if he winds up in Cleveland. But I think the. What the part that I like is that some smart people are starting to put the pieces together like we have. But we have for a long time and probably not probably me on the forefront of this and recognizing that the gap between Mendoza and Simpson is not as great as the public seems to think it is. The gap between Simpson and Next is pretty significant.

[Todd McShay]

We're gonna leave this for now.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

We gotta roll.

[Todd McShay]

We gotta like we gotta. We have.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Here we go.

[Todd McShay]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

I want, I want three guys.

[Todd McShay]

I hate that I can't respond, but here we go.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Three guys.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Who call it risers. Guys that really stood out that you think are like, and it's not like, oh, this guy ran fast and all this, so he's rising up the board. It's like after watching them as an evaluator and actually knowing the correct context to put this in and maybe some of the interviews and all the things, the field workouts, everything. Who are three guys that left Indy where you're like, man, they, they showed me more. Or they, they NFL teams now get a sense of how good this guy, whatever it is. Give me three guys. I'll give you three guys. You want to go back, back and forth?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I hate to start, by the way, because I don't want to overvalue what some guy did in one day of workouts and all that stuff. But I will say this. So I, I, I, you know, these are guys that I think are rising coming out of Indy. And one of them is Arkansas quarterback Taylor Green, who ran really fast. He ran a four, three, six, four, dude. I think that just matters. I'm sorry. When you're six foot six and you have big hands. 978 his hands, and you're 227 pounds and you run. Yes. Thumbs up, buddy. Would you run that speed at that size After. And I want to put this in the thing. I thought he had a little bit of an uneven throwing performance. I'm going to admit that he did. Yeah. And then. But also after, like, what we saw at the con, we saw at the Senior bowl when we're both sitting there and saying, there's a little more to this kid than we thought. Like, let's not get. You know, we're not out of control. We're not saying that, you know, he's farther along the process than he really is. But both of us walked away from the Senior bowl thinking that guy could do some things. He got a little bit better over the course of the week, you know, and immediately it's going to be hard not to compare him to Jalen Milro. I like his tape better than Jalen Milro's. I thought he had a much better week at the Senior bowl than Jalen. I think when you add all these things up and then he goes out and competes and runs like that and backs it all up in the way he did, I think. I think he's on his way up. I think Taylor Green, we. We mentioned this on the show the other day. I think he solidified himself as a top hundred pick.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I actually agree. And I think the quarterback position at the combine is about the most useless thing in. In the world outside of some of the intangible stuff that you can't see on. On the workouts on NFL Network interviews. But. But for his style, developmental player to go post those numbers, it's. It's eye opening. All right?

[Todd McShay]

We say if you're gonna be. If you're gonna be a little underdeveloped, and I'm sorry, I know we don't have a lot of time and you're gonna be a little underdeveloped. You got to have that special power to kind of get out of things, create and. And buy yourself time to do it.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And he has that, and he absolutely does it, like, at a. At a more extreme level than probably we even realize. And we've seen all his tape, and he's just flat out awesome with the ball in his hands. Dylan Thienaman.

[Todd McShay]

There.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

There was. And there probably still is a big debate at the top in terms of who's next up at safety. Dylan Thienaman from Oregon Competing with EMW. Emmanuel. Emmanuel McNeil.

[Todd McShay]

Warren.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I've gotten too lazy now with the EMW.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, no, I just know I panicked.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I was like, I don't know. I did find it interesting on the combine list it was just Emmanuel McNeil. But anyway, EMW had a solid workout. Nothing was like. Nothing was massive red flag or anything like that. But Dylan Thienaman did things that were just sensational. Checks in at 6 foot, just over 6 foot, just over 200 pounds. He runs a 4, 3 5, which is the fourth fastest, which is wild, but it's absolutely elite. Obviously you just don't have a lot of safeties 6 foot over 200 pounds that run the 4, 3, 5. And they're physical players like he is. Right. Then you get the vertical jump of 41 inches, second best of the group. Then you get the broad jump of 10,5. And most importantly, talking to guys in the league, his interviews as people are starting to drill down and get to know him, you want him to be that captain. The green dots are always going to be linebackers, but the safety has got to be the green dot. He's got to kind of for the secondary.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

And even though they don't have a green dot with the communications from the NFL. I understand. But they've got to be that leader in the secondary and to know that that guy's is dialed in on football and to see his versatility on tape and to see those numbers with what we see on tape is pretty damn special. And I think if nothing else, he has created for some teams because what EMW's six, three and a half, he's this long. You know, like they've created a kind of a. He's created. Themed him in a little bit of a debate on. Yeah, but look at these numbers and look at the interviews and so. And I thought it was. I'll give you some behind the scenes on emw. Not a big. Not a big vocal guy apparently. But the second you put him on the board or put on some tape, he just blows you away with his football intelligence. So that was interesting to hear a little nugget as well. I thought Thieman was a big winner from this past week. Who do you get next?

[Todd McShay]

Don't give me a chance to do it, McShay. Don't you know it's coming. I'm gonna be. This is. I'm gonna be hammering this nail all Draft season. Okay. There are a lot of corners that performed well. Dalen ever Georgia. How about that? 4, 3, 8. That's great for him. I thought Chandler Rivers out of Duke had a nice day for a smaller corner. Right. Takario Davis from Arizona is a human pterodactyl and ran a 4 4, one. I mean he awesome. Chris Johnson, San Diego State. Here we go. We were worried about the speed. No problem. Four, four. He had a 154 split. I believe he's six foot. He's 193 pounds. He's got big hands, 38 inch vertical, 10 foot, six broad. All just good numbers. All solid numbers. A guy that again, we went down to the Senior bowl, thought he had an uneven week, didn't have the week that I really want to have. Now you're matching the tape, now you're matching the production. Now you're matching this workout. Now you're hearing things about how smart he is from AIQ and Scotty Goldman. All of these things are starting to see Stack and this player that I really loved his tape, man. I just think he's, he's, you know, after maybe a little bit of a bumpy start to the offseason, he's going back in the right direction. I'm excited for him.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I'll transition to tight end. Okay. And I, I loved Chris Johnson's workout. I thought his on field stuff was just brilliant.

[Todd McShay]

Comfortable and smooth and balanced. Sorry.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Eli Stowers. Eli Stowers did something that we knew he was going to work out well. But what he did on that, on that turf, he like you come in and you know Kenyan Sadiq is going to be tight end one and you're kind of battling with Max Claire and some other tight ends. It's not just with them to be tight end too, but it's like show me the worthiness of being a second round pick. And I loved how the day, day earlier you get Styles going up against Reese and one's, one's last name starts with an R, the other with an S. And so like when, when Reese runs, then Styles gets to go and run something faster or jumps, they jump higher. You know the competition within. How about a tight end? You get Sadiq SA versus Stowers Saint. They're like, they're. I think there's, what you said, there's poor power.

[Todd McShay]

Sharp, who's a good player.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah. Sandwiched between those two. But Sadiq had an awesome workout. 4, 3, 9. Fastest tight end 40 ever at the combine like since say all Those people are saying that I'm wrong on that, that, that maybe it might be the second, but it blew the doors off with the 439, 43 and a half inch vertical for Sadiq. 11 foot broad. But Eli Stowers comes in, it's almost 6, 4, almost 240 pounds which is a little bit bigger honestly than I thought. And with 30, almost 33, 32 and a half. 32 and five eighths of an inch arm length, like pretty solid for an F tight end. Right? And I told you a lot of teams are looking at him like as an F tight end slash, maybe like slot receiver. He comes in and he goes 45 and a half inch vertical. Combine record for tight end. Combine record for tight ends was the highest of any player since 2006. Okay. Vernon Davis was, was the one.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't know he ran faster than that.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I told you it was the two combined combine workouts. I remember, but they're engraved in my head. Was. Was Vernon Davis a tight end? He was like the Under Armour. He like rolled out Under Armour at that point and. And Megatron. Right. Calvin Johnson.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that was.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So Anyway, so stowers 45 and a half inch vertical. Combine record for a tight end. Highest any player since 2006. 113 broad jump, which was the best of the tight ends. And he runs a four five one which is out. It's not 439, I get it. But it's outstanding for a tight end I think. And former quarterback understands like spatial awareness. We talked to Scott Goldman from AIQ and he's one of the four players he wanted to highlight because like between the ears. And Scott Goldman got it right with Ted McMillan. Right. I wish I had talked to Scott before last year's draft. They've gotten right with so many players that are kind of mid round guys that, that all of a sudden wind up producing like a first rounder. So Stowers is a player that I think went from in a pack those other guys at tight end to absolutely tight end too. And teams are really intrigued with the chess piece that he can become. All right, who do you got next?

[Todd McShay]

Malachi Lawrence from ucf. My guy going in. But then he shows up, he's. He's six pounds heavier than he was at the East west game. He's 247, shows up at Indies 253, 33 and five eight inch arms, six foot four frame. I think he could still bulk up a little bit. Guy runs a 452 with a 159 split and I he closes well on tape. Don't get me wrong, I didn't know he closed that well. I mean that, that, that was another level for me. And then a 40 inch vertical at 253 pounds and a 10 foot 10 broad jump. I thought he looked good on the field. The thing I will tell you about this kid too, you can throw out all these traits and the production and all that. The first thing I wrote my report about him, motor, motor. This kid gets after it. So I mean as much as you like all that physical ability, the way he, he chases is impressive.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right, last one for me, Jeff Caldwell. I mentioned his name earlier like some and you can see the list here. I've got Thiena, Mint, Stowers and Jeff Caldwell. Mentioned guys are Taylor Green, Chris Johnson, Malachi Lawrence. Guys that just absolutely improved their stock and are forcing some teams to go back and look at them. And I think in the case of Malachi Lawrence and Jeff Caldwell and and for those other guys we're talking about how do they fit what we want to do but we now know what the traits are and they're pretty sensational. But for Caldwell specifically 653, he's over 6 foot 5, 216 pounds match. He's got almost 33 inch arms. Rare, rare. Height, weight, speed, combination. Like there's just not many guys at that size that run a 43140. And so you look at and oh by the way the 10 yard split was 148 like elite. Elite. Absolutely insane for his size. Then the vertical is tied for the second. Of all the wide receivers you're telling me now I've got this, this long arm, 6 foot 5 plus receiver that can jump 42 inches in the air and 11 foot 2 broad, that lower body explosion. I've got to go and dig into his tape. But if you're talking about measurables and someone who like I don't know that anyone put on a bigger show and we saw Styles and Sadiq and Stowers and Malachi Lawrence, Taylor Green. We saw a ton of record breaking sensational height, weight, sp speed, broad vertical combinations. It was a wild combine. I don't know that anyone put up the same combination of measurements and results that Jeff Caldwell from Cincinnati did. So now it's like all right drilling back into the tape is this guy Potentially top 100 because there's so much more potential there than maybe we saw in college. But there's a lot of work to be done on Caldwell and That's exciting,

[Todd McShay]

man. I immediately think Alec Pierce, by the way. I just. I mean, because you think of Cincinnati receivers and go up and get it who could run like. And look what Alec Pierce has turned in for the Colts. I'm not saying that's a good comp yet. I don't know. But I immediately thought of Alec Pierce.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I think it's just priceless and so perfect for the show that I'm going to give you one minute to recap the entire offensive line yesterday. Go ahead. I.

[Todd McShay]

I got. I'm in a bad spot right now, man. I. I think there's gonna be. There's going to be a lot of adjusting. I think the interior offensive line's probably better. There's some guys that are projections. I. I don't even know. I did not know you were going to do this.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Why are you in a bad spot?

[Todd McShay]

Because the tape arms are short. We have outliers. We have the tapes. Is. Where do you want to start? I'm going to get into a couple guys in a minute. But there's. There's outliers now. We'll start with Fano, who with the. The short arm length. Like the tape is amazing. The agility is amazing. But then you have this other issue. There's some up and down tape. There's some guys that people love that I don't love, but I also know they're gonna go like. I see. I find this interesting and I want to dig in with. I saw some people on X talking about how there's going to be. I think you said in the newsletter too, there's going to be a run on offensive lineman and their offense there 100% will be because teams need them and they're tough to find big men that move like that. I don't know if I love this group and I loved it at one point and now I don't know if I love it. And there's some like. There's just a lot of stuff going on the. In the interior I like. I mean Logan Jones didn't have the insane 10 yard split that I thought he might have the center from Iowa, but he had a good workout. Georgia Tech guard Keelan Rutledge had a really nice workout. There's some guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Keelan Rutledge is. Is one of the all time pricks. Right. Like so bad. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I mean he would. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

They had to tell slash bad that. That his own offensive linemen were like really disgusted by him and yelling at him at this Senior Bowl. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

But if if contained and channeled, it's a really good trait because he's a glass eating SOB man. But he, his when you say worked out well, his short shuttle. So 40 yard dash for high draft picks first, second round guys, believe it or not, better than the more, more correlation than the 10, the short shuttle, the, the jumps. The biggest correlation for, for early round draft picks at offensive tackle is the 40 yard dash.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, I don't believe it. I know it's true. I still can't believe that it's true.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I know. But for the interior guys, it's the short shuttle and I've got all sorts of data over the over 25 years. Right. Guys that run really well in the short shuttle. So with Rutledge at 6 4, 316 pounds, long arms for a guard, 33 plus when he ran a 4, 5, 4 and his short shuttle, that's exceptional. Okay. So it shows the body control, the think poles and traps and all that. Okay, so Rutledge was a big winner. Here's the thing with Fano, man. If you're playing him at center, you're looking at those numbers and you're like, wait, we could, this could be like Linderbaum, who was one of my favorites ever. I don't know, a monster center, but it doesn't prevent him. But the thing with Fano was he came out and he ran a really good 40 yard dash.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You know, 4, 4, 9, 1. It was a best in class or second. It was, it was right up there near the top. That's, that's exact. Anything sub five you're thrilled with. The short arms though are 32 and an eighth, right? Yeah, 32, 32 and one. He's just over 32. Like that's just, that's an interior guy all day long.

[Todd McShay]

No, it's not.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Unless, unless he, unless he can. He's going to get drafted as a tackle. I'm not saying there is. And he took snaps as a center yesterday and they're clearly like it's a fallback, fallback plan. And so if he becomes a Linder bomb, then like at least he's not busting out at tackle and there's nothing else you can get from.

[Todd McShay]

Right, you know. Right. Yeah.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So. So there's that with Fano, but it just goes to show when we go back to the very first conversation of there's this elite class and none of them are the positions you want them to be. Jeremiah Love and Styles and downs. And so there's a bunch of really good tackles. Maui Noah didn't work out yesterday from Miami. Big, big guy, physical guy. He'll work out at March 23rd. I think it is Miami's pro day. Fano is the short arms but he's so athletic and like the personality and the interviews. He's awesome.

[Todd McShay]

Right? But talented but raw. Like there's all these guys.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

Yeah, but he, he was the story yesterday, if we're going to be honest. That's fine. And I, and we knew he was going to be. And I tried to warn you but

[Todd McShay]

I don't know why you need to warn me. I knew it was going to be

[Daniel Jeremiah]

the case but there's going to be a lot of momentum for him as OT1 is what I tried to warn you of. And I kind of prefer Maui Noah because I know he's going to start at right tackle. I don't care about the shorter arms. I think he's going to be a dog. Fano I think is going to be a great center but it's going to be a struggle at tackle but I think he can still do it. Freeling's not ready. What 18 starts as you mentioned. But my gosh, man, when you talk about what you're looking for, he worked out at 67 and 3 8, 315 pounds. He and Blake Miller the only ones with the arms arm length over that 34 threshold. And he was closer to 35 than 34 at 34 and 3/4. He had a 33 and a half inch vertical which is exceptional. I think it was best in class for the offensive tackles. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was nine seven broad. Outstanding. And he ran a 493 at six foot seven plus 315 pounds.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

So it's traits versus experience and tape. You know he's got some really good

[Todd McShay]

tape too by the way. Like I just want to be clear about that. Like there's, there's times a freely looks up freaking amazing on tape and then there's a lot of the low lights. So I, I really like him. I just don't think there's that guy that's clear. The best offensive lineman. And again it goes back to the theme. The best offensive lineman is Penn State offensive guard Venga Ioone from. Yeah, he's the guard. He's the guard. Is the best offensive line in this class.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

All right. So yeah, he is. No question. We got really quickly.

[Todd McShay]

Luka Decky, Tampa bay right tackle, 32 and a quarter inch arms, just signed a four year 90 million dollar deal.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

I said, I said, okay, I think we covered it and I agree with you. I think he's going to be a starting tackle and probably a really good one. But there is a backup plan with Fano and I think we started started to see that start to happen on Sunday at the combine. We got to run. We got a lot of responsibilities today. Everyone wants to talk to combine and wrap it up, and that's a great thing. Wednesday we're back. Or Thursday the show will come out Thursday morning. We're back. Top 100 is going to release later this week. My gosh, I'm kind of worried about sitting down and doing that because there's a lot to sort through. But that's exciting. Top 100 later this week. And the McShay report is out now if you want to get even more. Just dove really deep into this. It's a good one.

[Todd McShay]

Check it out.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

You have you fought through hard today. I appreciate that. And for that I gave you five stars.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks, man.

[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Todd McShay]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

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[Daniel Jeremiah]

learn more, it's a season two playoff race with TGL. Presented by SoFi. Sunday at 9pm Eastern, Jupiter Lynx versus Boston common golf Monday at 7pm Eastern Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club Tuesday at 9pm Eastern the Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter links. Keep up. It's golf watch on ESPN ESPN2 and the ESPN applied.