NFL Combine WR & RB Reactions: Is Matthew Golden the New WR1? Plus, The Running Back Class Shows Out.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show

Episode: NFL Combine WR & RB Reactions: Is Matthew Golden the New WR1? Plus, The Running Back Class Shows Out.
Release Date: March 2, 2025
Host: Todd McShay, The Ringer
Guests: Mel Kiper Jr.

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Introduction

In this episode of The McShay Show, Todd McShay and NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. delve deep into the performances of wide receivers (WR) and running backs (RB) at the latest NFL Combine. They evaluate standout athletes, discuss their potential draft positions, and analyze how these performances might influence team strategies in the upcoming NFL Draft.

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Running Back Class: A Historic Showcase

Record-Breaking Performances

Todd McShay opens the discussion by highlighting the exceptional nature of this year's running back class. The group delivered one of the fastest averages in Combine history, with an impressive 4.48 seconds in the 40-yard dash—averaging the fastest times recorded for the RB position.

"[05:57] Todd McShay: 4.48 was the average. That's the fastest in the history of the combine for the running back position."

Bashel Tutin's Dominance

Bashel Tutin from Virginia Tech stands out as a top performer. McShay praises Tutin's combination of size, strength, and speed, noting his record-setting vertical jump.

"[05:32] Todd McShay: Bashal Tutin came out and... He had a 40 and a half inch vertical which was best in class."
"[05:57] Todd McShay: ...Edges in 40. It's straight line explosiveness from him on tape and that's what we saw today."

Tutin's athletic lineage contributes to his explosive performance, though McShay points out areas for improvement, such as lateral agility and route complexity.

Omarion Hampton's Versatility

Omarion Hampton emerges as a surprise with his 4.46-second 40-yard dash, showcasing impressive explosiveness for his size (221 pounds).

"[08:16] Todd McShay: ...he ran a 4.46. Thoughts?"
"[08:16] Mel Kiper Jr.: ...he showed out. There was no disappointments there."

Hampton's athleticism suggests he could be a valuable asset in the running game and return duties, despite concerns about his build.

Other Notable RBs: Trevion Henderson and Quinton Judkins

Trevion Henderson demonstrates exceptional lower-body explosiveness with a 39.5-inch vertical and a 10-foot 8-inch broad jump, making him a prime candidate for early drafting.

"[13:43] Mel Kiper Jr.: I was wondering if you're going to say that because those are outstanding results for a running back."
"[15:56] Todd McShay: He has a 39.5-inch vertical showing that lower body explosion that you're looking for."

Quinton Judkins also impresses with his 10-foot 11-inch broad jump and 4.43-second dash, indicating high potential despite some size concerns.

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Wide Receiver Class: Matthew Golden Rising

Matthew Golden as a Potential WR1

The wide receiver segment centers around Matthew Golden from Texas, who McShay considers a strong contender for the top receiver spot in the draft. Golden's 4.29-second 40-yard dash and exceptional hands make him a standout.

"[21:22] Mel Kiper Jr.: He just showed out..."
"[57:29] Mel Kiper Jr.: I think he has a chance to be a really productive receiver in the NFL."

Golden's ability to make contested catches and his sharp route-running skills position him as a versatile threat on the field. Despite concerns about his size, his performance at the Combine bolsters his draft stock significantly.

Ted McMillan and Emeka Buuka: Evaluating Potential

Ted McMillan from Arizona and Emeka Buuka from Ohio State also receive attention. McShay notes McMillan's athletic traits but points out areas needing development, such as urgency and route consistency.

"[39:27] Todd McShay: ... McMillan is a Drake London, he’s an outside ex..."
"[40:37] Mel Kiper Jr.: ... am I a little bit low on him, I should say."

Buuka, while consistent and reliable, lacks the vertical threat that Golden brings, placing him slightly behind in the immediate draft considerations.

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Quarterback Performances: Mixed Reactions

Tyler Schuck's Determination

Tyler Schuck from Missouri stands out among quarterbacks with a 4.63-second 40-yard dash and impressive arm strength. McShay commends his competitive spirit and adaptability.

"[78:43] Todd McShay: ... because I'm telling you, if you go down the list of like the top 20 receivers in the league, there's a disproportionate amount. They come from the second round. Right."
"[81:40] Mel Kiper Jr.: ... He puts more zip and velocity on the ball today than I thought he would."

Jackson Dart and Brady Cook: Emerging Prospects

Jackson Dart and Brady Cook also showcase promising skills, though with varying degrees of consistency and arm strength. McShay highlights Dart's 4.63-second dash and physical presence, positioning him as a potential high draft pick.

"[83:42] Todd McShay: ... Jackson Dart try to do a cartwheel..."
"[83:15] Todd McShay: ... size and speed translate to impressive Combine numbers."

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Mock Draft Implications: Team Needs and Player Fit

McShay and Kiper discuss how the stellar performances of the RB and WR classes influence team drafting strategies. Teams with pressing needs in the RB position, such as the Raiders and Dallas, may prioritize these standout athletes early in the draft.

"[07:24] Todd McShay: ... Raiders at 6 is the first spot where there is a team that has a need at running back."
"[35:06] Mel Kiper Jr.: ... wide receivers are overrepresented in the second round because of their high potential."

The discussion also touches on how versatile players like Golden and Schuck could fit into various offensive schemes, offering teams flexibility in their selections.

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Conclusion

The episode underscores the exceptional talent present in this year's running back and wide receiver classes, with standout performances that could redefine draft expectations. McShay and Kiper emphasize the importance of Combine metrics in evaluating player potential, while also considering game tape and positional needs of NFL teams. As the NFL Draft approaches, these insights provide valuable foresight into how top prospects might be selected and developed in the league.

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Notable Quotes:

• “This is going to be an awesome showing. Even I didn't know it was going to be like this.”
  - [20:44] Todd McShay

• “JJ Harvey is a force multiplier. He’s a leader. He pushes everyone involved.”
  - [30:25] Todd McShay

• “He could be a really good number three and there are guys in the league that believe in him.”
  - [66:18] Mel Kiper Jr.

• “The running back group... in just 54 days until the NFL draft.”
  - [04:26] Todd McShay

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For more detailed analyses and mock drafts, subscribe to The McShay Report here.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

Presented by fanduel the NFL Draft is right around the corner and fanduel is the best place to get in on all the action. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. And FanDuel has lots of ways to bet the draft, with loads more coming between now and the first pick. So download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL Draft, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg d help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by Noble. Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger. Especially when you've got Best in Class award winning footwear backing you up. No Bull is a footwear brand for training and for daily life built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And get this exclusive for the McShay show listeners. No ball is offering 30% off your order. Visit noble project.com mcshay for 30% off your entire order. That's N O B L L P r o j ct.com mcshay for 30% if there was any question as to why we've been hyping up this running back class as one of the best in NFL Draft history, well, today provided some answers inside the the workout facility at the combine here. Plus telling performances both good and bad from the quarterbacks and the wide receivers. It's day three of the 2025 NFL Draft and in just 54 days until the NFL draft. Hey bud.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

What's up man?

[Todd McShay]

Men. She good?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm good man.

[Todd McShay]

All right, let's get into this. I'm excited. I really am. Three days it's been building. Yesterday we had a good day with the defensive backs. We saw some exciting numbers. But this running back class we've been hyping for so long and it not always does it match up like we saw with the interior defensive line Today it matched up. I mean this was one of the. This was actually a record setting performance for the running backs. This running back group averaged 4, 48 running. Just watching these 40s flying, they were flying and it was like one after another after another. So when I saw the average, it wasn't shocking. A 4, 48 was the average. That's the fastest in the history of the combine for the running back position. I'm going to start with one guy that is not in the top of the rankings and we'll get to the top of the rankings. And the guys that had phenomenal days. Ashton Jinty's number one on most people's boards. He's the only one of the top running backs that didn't work out. So it created a little opportunity for some others. But Bashel Tutin from Virginia Tech.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Have a day.

[Todd McShay]

Have a day, man. Bashal Tutin came out and I mean I've got him as the 14th best running back in this class. Most years that's not a good thing. This year it's not a terrible thing. Five, nine and a quarter, 206 pounds. He's got the biggest freaking thighs and quads you've ever seen. He had a 40 and a half inch vertical which was best in class.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

10, 10 broad jumps, second best in class. And a 4, 3, 2, 40 yard dash for Bashel Tutin from Virginia Tech. 4, 3, 2. It's fascinating, but maybe not surprising. I mean this guy, if you really study his background in history, grew up in a family of track athletes. His dad was a sprinter, his mother was a record breaking sprinter in hurdles, and he had a 10, 9, 100 meter in high school himself. So yes, like that track background certainly helps. But you see the straight line explosiveness from him on tape and that's what we saw today. This isn't, we're not talking about lateral agility, we're not talking about catching the football, which is an area he's going to have to improve upon. Everything I saw on tape was outlets and screens and just, you know, he's not part of the complex route tree at Virginia Tech and during his collegiate days. But you look at those numbers and talk about the buckets or the, you know, the clusters that we're trying to break with all these guys. This is a huge day for Tutin. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And you think about 206 pounds and you might say, oh, that doesn't seem that big, but it's a 5 foot 9 frame. So he's a really compact build and when you watch the tape, he's got great contact balance. He's a tough runner. The other thing you want to keep in mind, 20, 23, 2 kickoff returns for touchdowns. You've got a guy that's probably going to push for time in the return game right away.

[Todd McShay]

So let's, let's throw up the rankings real quickly if we can. Okay. And, and let's Take a look at all these star running backs, right? All these guys that were in our top 100. And what it really gets me excited is that we had the vast majority of this group working out, which was not the case at all of the other positions. Okay. And so, and so when you look at Ashton Jinty out of Boise State, number one running back projected by most to go in the top 15 and ranked by most somewhere in the top six, seven spots in this year's class. Okay. He did not work out after that though. You got Omarion Hampton from North Carolina, who. And a lot of people's minds now is starting to kind of creep up there. And I told you after I finished this tape, and you've been saying for a long time, he's clearly your number two. I, I don't think there's a big gap between Gentee and Hampton.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

And that to me was, was eye opening when I started watching his tape and seeing him at 221 pounds, how light he was on his feet, almost six feet tall. So five eleven and three quarters. He today had a ten, ten in the broad jump. Okay. Which was tied for second best. 38 inch vertical at his size, which was eighth best. But remember he's two hundred and twenty one against like a lot of other running backs like Travion Henderson, 202. RJ Harvey, 205. Jordan Thomas 205. Dylan Sampson, 200. Okay. So to do these things that he's doing with the, the number two broad jump and the eighth vertical jump in a loaded class says something. And then you start to look at the 40 yard dash where, what, what was his final result in the 40. Let me see if I can pull that up.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

446.

[Todd McShay]

446.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Thoughts?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I mean he just, he showed out. I mean he backed up everything that we saw on tape. There was no disappointments there. And again, you keep in mind when we're talking about this because there were some other players that were smaller that ran better, but keep in mind it's that size. This is 220 pounds, moving at 4, 4, 6. Lower body explosiveness. Lower body explosiveness. Checks the, checks all the marks in terms of the jumps burst in speed. Checks all the marks when you say that 40 time. I just thought he had a great day, you know, reassured everyone of what they were seeing on tape.

[Todd McShay]

All right, Tucker, let's pull up those. The running back. Tucker. We're gonna, we're going today, baby.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

We're in speed.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we've been kind of just grinding through the last few days, but today we are rolling. I want to see these the, the rankings coming up right. And beyond Omarion Hampton, he's. Here are the other running backs I firmly believe to run at least two running backs are going to go in the first round and I want to go through this too because when you start looking at this running back at this mock draft, if you will, at the draft board and the teams that could be in the market for running backs and this doesn't exclude any other team, you know, I don't think many people thought Jameer Gibbs was going to go to Detroit. So like this, when I read off this list of teams, don't, don't get it twisted. This doesn't mean these are the only teams that they could go to. But here are some spots that I think the possibilities for these running backs in the first round and I'll come back to early second round as well. The Raiders, I think they're in the quarterback market. We'll get into a lot of discussions about the quarterbacks, how they threw today. We'll get into a lot of discussion about the quarterbacks and where they could go and some of the movement free agency as it occurs in the next few weeks. Okay. However, The Raiders at 6 is the first spot where there is a team that has a need at running back and they're picking at 6. As I mentioned 10. Chicago expect it fully to be an offensive lineman, but we'll get to the second round a little bit. Dallas at 12 seems like the spot where everyone has a peg, maybe most likely in the in that top 15 range for a running back to go. Okay. After that there's going to be this stretch in the early 20s starting with 20, Denver 21, Pittsburgh Chargers at 22 and Vikings at 24. And the reason I say those teams. Let's look at Denver, right. I always say undrafted because I'm so in the draft mode. Unrestricted free agent Javante Williams and an Audric estimate. Okay. And they've got Roger estimate. Then you've got as I mentioned, Pittsburgh at 21. Najee unrestricted free agent. Then the next Pick after that 22, J.K. dobbins for the Chargers, unrestricted free agent, 24 Minnesota Vikings, UFA Aaron Jones and Cam Akers. So that range right there, if there's going to be a third back because I truly believe in the top 20, Ashton Jinty and Omarion Hampton are off the board at that point. Is there a third back that goes and let's say maybe one of them doesn't go in the top 20. I refuse to believe that if it's Jinte that goes early that Hampton wouldn't go somewhere 20 to 24. Okay. With Denver, Pittsburgh, L.A. chargers and Minnesota. But if there's a third back. And again, Tuck, let's roll it the rankings, right? Running back rankings. If you haven't, you probably have it up already. You do, right? Yeah, I see smirking back there. He's on, he's on a heater tonight. Don't get it, don't get it twisted. This running back group. Trayvon Henderson. We have the third running back, Caleb Johnson from Iowa. We'll get to him. All of these guys worked out. Quinton Judkins, Quinton Junkins, Cam Scatterboo. Cam Scatterboo jumped, did not run a 40. So he was a little bit limited. R.J. harvey worked out. Jordan James worked out. Dylan Sampson worked out all the way down the line. All these guys did Travion though. And we'll transition now. Travion Henderson is the most likely to be the third running back drafted in the first round. Let's look at what he did today. He had a 38 and a half vertical jump, which was tied for fourth. He had a 10, 8 broad jump, tied for sixth and like tied for six this year. It would be like second or third most years.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I was wondering if you're going to say that because those are outstanding results for a running back. You know, you hear tied for six. And I think people might say, oh, he was only, you know, sixth best here. That's not that great. No, that is an outstanding number for a running back. Just to be clear, an outstanding vertical jump for a Running back is 38 and a half. Exactly that mark. For a broad jump, it's 10 foot five. Those are outstanding numbers, running backs.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And a 40. It's 4, 4, 8. Those are the. And we do the measurables that matter each year. We've done like deep, long studies over, over the history the last two decades and we've updated with numbers and, and tried to correlate to essentially trying to say, all right, we're looking and it's in the background here. So if I point, it means I'm pointing up at the big screen that we have in this wonderful hotel. By the way, welcome into the show. I'm the worst host in the history of the world. But like, I hope it's part of the fun. Welcome into the show. We appreciate you watching on YouTube, watching live right now, while the combine is still going on, if you're here, special love to you and also watching live on Spotify and this podcast will be out on anywhere that you get podcasts. If you're listening, we appreciate it as well. So when I look at this in the measurables that matter, right. We've spent all this time figuring out what correlates and over time, like looking and looking at the running backs and guys who go on to have success. The three most important measurables in this order, broad jump, 40, vertical jump. So that's why I'm going through these numbers, specifically through the running backs and mentioned I were tracking them all day long. And so for Travion Henderson, not the biggest back. He's not 221 like Omarion Hampton, but he showed up at just over 5:10, 202 pounds, had the fourth best vertical jump, sixth best broad jump. Both numbers, both numbers in that outstanding range. Literally right. That 38.5 is right at the outstanding range. The 10, 8 is 3 inches over the outstanding range. And the 40 yard dash, 4, 4, 3 is better than the outstanding number. The kind of the benchmark of 4, 4, 8.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So great day. Judkins was the one that jumped out to me even more though.

[Todd McShay]

All right, get into it because he did that.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He had the same vertical, a better broad at 11ft and he did it at 221 pounds. He ran a 4, 4 8. He did a 200. I called you a couple weeks ago and I said, man, Judkins, I loved him at Ole Miss. I'm not sure I'm seeing it as much this year. I think he's a very good running back prospect. I'm not sure he's in that top tier of running backs. Well, now I feel like he's in that top tier of running backs. I got to go back, watch again. Maybe watch the tape from two years ago again, because that workout is. It's phenomenal. I mean, again, at 221 pounds to broad jump, 11ft is insane.

[Todd McShay]

It is. And I remember, I remember sitting with Lane Kiffin and two year, two maybe three years, probably three years ago now. And just talking about how Judkins and he had that breakout freshman year. So it was three, three maybe four years ago when we met and just talking about, he's like, he's got everything you want, like a pounder this and that, but wasn't sure. I'm not sure what it will eventually run, you know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so this is a guy who's kind of he was not like the five star. He was not the elite. They actually thought they may have more talented running backs like in it Ole Miss at the time but he just, he wasn't going to give up that job. He was rotating as a backup but he clearly like had emerged as all the young of all the younger running backs. But there were questions about is he going to have that like explosiveness that that eventually will get him drafted early. And this, this workout clearly shows that he does. And he ran a 4, 4, 8. I don't know if you mentioned that 4, 4, 8 in the 44, 48. I say this all because you get into the second round and I just mentioned the teams in the first round and where they were picking. I don't have the, I'm not going to pull up the picks now. It's, you know, we're so far away and we can get to all this later but based off of the draft order and I'm assuming all these teams have second round picks if they don't, excuse me right now, we're just not in that mode. But Cleveland will pick early. They need a running back. Okay. I didn't mention them there because they're not taking a running back at 2. Vegas was a stretch at 6 but Cleveland needs a running back. Okay. And when you look at the Brown situation, Nick Chubb, Jerome Ford, like they could use a young running back and if it's not in the second we'll get to all the depth here in the third round. New England Patriots clearly not taking a running back in number four. Right. Maybe it won't be early in the second round but they, they'll have an early pick in the second round. They have a running back need. When you look at their situation, Ramondre Stevenson and Antonio Gibson, I think they're looking to get younger, pay less and get a little bit more explosive. Vegas as I mentioned at 6 probably not going to take a running back there. But if you're staring at a Travion Henderson that falls or a Judkins that falls or a frickin Caleb Johnson, right. Who I've got as the fourth running back who didn't jump slightly disappointing. Like of all the top backs, I thought Caleb was a little bit disappointing. I thought he might crack based on his speed. It's smooth speed. It's not like that.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's very smooth speed. It's exactly.

[Todd McShay]

It feels like deceptive speed but maybe it's just not deceptive. Maybe like maybe it is what it is but he wound up Running a. The official time today was a, was a 4, 5, 7. So like when you start to look at these guys and he was 224, the biggest of the bigger backs, three pounds heavier than, than Omarion Hampton, but also, you know, an inch and change taller. He's 6, 1, 2, 24.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I still think he's a home run day two back. I mean just the tape. Trust the tape on that.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, oh.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You know what I mean?

[Todd McShay]

I think he's the fourth back taken.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I hope. Yeah, I hope he runs at his pro day. I hope he gets that number down a little bit. Just, I just trust the tape with him too much. He is. If you're a zone heavy scheme and you run outside zone a lot, which a lot of NFL teams do, this kid is a perfect fit for what you want to do. And again, I know that number is kind of high, but when you watch the tape, he pulls away. He's quick, man.

[Todd McShay]

Let's pull up the top 40s and I want to go through each category here. Okay. The 40 yard dashes, I mean this group, I got to, I think eight deep and you know, the. Tied for seventh. The seventh and eighth best were what, four, four, three. That's like. No, that's like, like a good wide receiver class. I'll be interested to see when the officials come out and they, and they average it all up. Were the running backs faster by average than the wide receivers this year?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

We told you the running backs were going to steal the show. And I'm not like the I told you so guy, but like a little bit I am right now. But we knew coming in that this was going to be an awesome showing. Even I didn't know it was going to be like this. No, I truly didn't.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No.

[Todd McShay]

And so if you pull up the top 10 or the top running back 40 yard dash, here's what I've got. Tootin From Virginia Tech, 4, 3, 2. Jadon Blue, running back from Texas. We knew he was going to run.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Well and he did.

[Todd McShay]

And listen, you're gonna draft that guy to be the, the, let's call it the Jameer Gibbs light.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

You know what I mean?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

In that kind of role. But he's gonna, he's not gonna be as significant a factor, but screens, outlet, passes, comes in in certain situations, get him in a draw, hit a crease when you spread out the defense. This guy has explosive traits and he showed it by running a 4, 3, 8. Burchard Smith. That's my guy.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Your guy?

[Todd McShay]

Former Wide receiver from SMU goes from Miami to SMU has a monster year. This past year they make the college Football playoff run that they made. Smith is a huge part of it. And he ran a 4:3:9 the third fastest time. RJ Harvey, fourth fastest time 4:4:0. I mean it's just, it's remarkable when you Montrell Johnson Jr. From from Florida runs a four four one. You got ETN right? Trevor ETN ran a four four two which is six best and then the two guys I said were tied for seventh, Travion Henderson and our guy and I want to get to him now. DJ Giddens, the human glitch. The human glitch, my favorite nickname in this year's draft class. From New mention so far. Giddens. I want you to understand when you watch this guy on tape he looks like a 59 scat back because he's so quick. His ability to like like that like in and out of breaks and tiny spaces make guys miss. I think he when I watched Silly we didn't coordinate it but you and I watched his tape within like a three day span and we're both like oh what like and, and you got to remember we're getting to him because we're trying to go down the line and you get to him and I think he was like 2022 on my, my list of guys to watch tape, right? And now I've got, I've bumped him up to 12 on the board because I loved his tape shows up here. He's over 6ft tall, 212 pounds. He listen to this. He I just told you the 4443 he ran right tied for seventh best in the fastest class in the history of the NFL combine for running backs. Tied for seventh. He had a 39 1/2 inch vertical showing that lower body explosion that you're looking for. And remember the measurables that mattered. We talked about broad jump 40 vertical jump. His vertical was tied for second and his broad as well was tied for second 1010 in the broad jump.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Another guy who had all outstanding numbers in the measure was the matter. Yes. Just crushed it. By the way, Dylan Sampson from Tennessee didn't run today. He didn't run because I guess he's a little bit banged up. He did work out during. I thought he looked great on the field.

[Todd McShay]

He did. I thought he caught the ball really, really well.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So it's kind of a bummer that he didn't run. I think he's gonna go to his pro day and you're gonna see a sub 4 for a time easily. So if he had run here, that time could have gone even lower.

[Todd McShay]

What else stood out to you? Because I. Well, sorry. Let's flip it over. Let's just run down it. We just did the 40s. Let's look at the broad jumps. Okay. Because that's what we said. The number one measurable that matters and it makes sense, right? With these running backs, you need to see that lower body explosion, contact, balance, power. As an inside runner, can they jet, can they, you know, fight through it? Plus the lower body strength equals explosion in the run game and firing out. And when you look at the, at the top guys in terms of the broad jump. Quinshon Judkins, your guy right there. Again, number one, 11 foot broad jump. Remember, the outstanding number is a 10 5. And I'm going to get seven deep of guys that were all 10, seven or better. Laquin Allen from Syracuse. Okay. Laquint's got the best hands of any running back in this class. As a runner, he's a little bit upright. I think maybe some people have over rated him a little bit. And I want to put that in context because a, we're talking about arguably the best running back class ever and certainly since 2017 when we had Christian McCaffrey, Leonard Fournette and 30 guys drafted. Okay. So when I'm just trying to keep that in perspective when I say maybe because all of a sudden you started to see some people putting up as like the number three or number four running back. I don't think he's at that level, but I think there's a case to be made somewhere in like that 9 to 13 range in this class. Good back because he catches the ball so damn well. Pass protection, not so much. But he was utilized so much in the passing game as a receiver, he just hasn't worked at it yet. He's a good kind of straight line back. Doesn't have a lot of like, but he, but he, he does, he does like, he makes a sharp cut. That's what I've noticed. Like getting the open field make you kind of go against the grain anyway. He shows that lower body explosiveness to go with that pass catching ability. With his 1010 also at 1010 in the broad jump, our guy Giddens again. Our guy Omar, Omarion Hampton again. Of course, Tootin's up there again. Then you get to 6 in the rankings with a 10, 8 Travion Henderson and then 7 RJ Harvey.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I was, yeah, I'm just gonna Be honest, I was watching these body types and the way they were working out, and my thought was, where do they shop for pants? Like their quads. Their quads are so big.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That I was like, what are the.

[Todd McShay]

How do these.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Where do these guys get their clothes? Because I don't even know. They can't go and get regular in pants and try to pull them over. Like, these quads are so massive. And you see it again. What does that mean? Like, what are we. Are you just being silly? Mentioned?

[Todd McShay]

No.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Like, when you see a guy built like that who carries his weight like that, it translates to how their ability to break tackles, their ability to push the pile when they don't get, you know, when they don't have a seam, it all, you know, it all adds up. When you're looking at the overall valuation.

[Todd McShay]

I think the AXX behind you is. I'm just looking at the comments. Right. TJ Maxx. Maybe they could go get some shorts there.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Quadzilla's everywhere, though.

[Todd McShay]

There are. I'm trying to pull up our. Our live chat to make sure we're following along. We are following along. Paulino89. Love it. Brett Jones, the fantasy plumber. Not sure what that name's all about, but we appreciate everyone watching and hanging around. And there's some questions later. We'll try to get to them in that list. Let me see what the vertical jumps. Yeah, let's rip through vertical jumps again. And I know I'm boring people with some numbers, but like, I hope you're going to see the trends that we're trying to get to here. Okay. The vertical jumps, a lot of the same names, except Tucker's boy Scatter Boo is in there at number two with a 39 and a half inch vertical behind Tutin that we talked about with 40.5 in his vertical. After that again, Giddens, 39 and a half. Judkins 38 and a half. Edwards. That's right. I forgot. Donovan Edwards from Michigan. The forgotten.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He had a nice day.

[Todd McShay]

The face of NCAA 24. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Some of the faces of that game didn't really work out.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. But good, good performance today. Also Henderson. Trevion henderson with the 38 and a half as well. And then just beyond that, omarion Hampton with 38. And RJ Harvey. RJ Harvey's name keeps coming up here, right? RJ Harvey ran the fourth fastest 40 yard dash. RJ Harvey had the seventh best broad jump at 10 7. RJ Harvey had a 38. The 38 inch vertical.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Not just here. You've been talking about his tape for, I feel like a few weeks now.

[Todd McShay]

When I go back to his tape study, there were so many things that stood out. I just. I love his vision. I love the fact that he is able to make guys miss in a small area. When I looked at him, I went from, yeah, he's a nice mid round back to I think absolutely third round, but like early third round. Wow. I really do his run style and I just love. I love his feet. He's absolutely electric. Like, he's one of those pick and slide runners who can. He's moving laterally until he doesn't need to move laterally. He's kind of. And then goes, yep. You know, and his ability to like stop, start, but also to just accelerate initially after like the patience that you need and the vision you have when you see the crease or you feel the crease cutting back. The ability to get to top speed in a flash is so important in the NFL because that crease ain't staying open.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You know, yeah, you better hit it. And Harvey, I think versatility is his strength. Like pass pro. I thought he was overwhelmed a little bit at times, but he, as you said, he is stronger and a little bit more powerful with contact balance than you would see that you would think. And remember, 205 at 58 is like 215 at 6 1.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You know, like, he's tightly packed.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So I'm not saying this is a great comp, but I always think of Maurice Jones, Drew, because he wasn't, you know, his size wasn't massive in terms of his weight, but he was built so low to the ground, he, you know, he's so powerful.

[Todd McShay]

I went with. I went with Aaron Jones, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just making sure I. Because I saw there's a couple guys that have a little bit of that quality from Aaron Jones. Aaron Jones is the guy he reminds me of a little bit undersized, can break, can, you know, bounce off of some tackles. But it's his electric feet that make him special and have given him the career that he has had. The other thing about RJ Harvey for. If you're in the fan base of a team and they wind up drafting him, he is. He is a. What do they call it? Force multiplier. The guy who comes into the locker room and he just. He pushes everyone involved. He gets the best out of his teammates, constantly driving himself. He's a leader. I just, I think he. There's outside of like, he can Get a little better in pass protection. I don't see much in terms of the weaknesses.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. You want him to be an inch or two taller? Great.

[Todd McShay]

I don't care.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Get over it.

[Todd McShay]

I don't care. I mean, get over it. The best running back to come out in a long time is Ashton Jinty, right? Well, not a long time, but he's up there, like, the top five in the last maybe decade in terms of talented backs to come out in the draft. He's up there in the top four or five, and he's five. He checked in at 5-5084, right? Five, eight and a half. So it's almost.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You can't be okay with one and not the other.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah. It's almost a strength at that position.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

What else jumped out, man?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I want to give you a guy that flew under the radar because of all these numbers, and maybe he's not the top of any list.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Rocket Sanders from South Carolina, man.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

217 pounds. He ran a four, four, six, hit a 36 and a half inch vertical. Very productive player. Runs really hard on tape, you know, Productive at Arkansas, productive at South Carolina. Someone who's maybe flying under the radar, but when you look at that height, weight, speed, he's a guy that you got to go back and look at. Maybe. Maybe he's. We're a little bit low, or maybe I'm a little bit low on him, I should say.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. It's just. I mean, if you're looking for a guy, Jordan James had a meh day. I know, but. No, I know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I'm good at the tape.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

No, I'm just saying what's fascinating to me is I don't think you change buckets. I'm not a bucket changer believer. You know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

If that's a thing. But I do think within the bucket, you. You. You mix around. The issue is when you compare. When you put Jordan James, like, I consider him a bucket ahead of some of these other guys.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Like, when you get to laquint Allen from Syracuse, when you get to Jaden Blue from Texas, when you get to DJ Giddens. I would put Giddens up. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I would say.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I'm just kind of going through different notes here, but to me, it would be like, all right, let's get past it. We got Cam Scatterboo, we got RJ Harvey, we got Dylan Sampson.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

I think that, like, is a cutoff to me.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

In terms of my tape evaluation. Right. So for Me, it would be Ginty Hampton, Henderson, Caleb Johnson, Quinshawn Judkins, Scatterboo, RJ Harvey, Jordan James, Dylan Sampson. Nine backs.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

They're all so good.

[Todd McShay]

Right. Based off tape, where I'm, I'm like, I don't really want to have a discussion that one of these other guys is in these three buckets, if you will. You can create buckets within those first nine guys, but those are my nine off of tape.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. What's interesting is James would be eight on that list for me.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Kind of right. Neck and neck with Dylan Sampson. James shows up five, nine and a half, 205, perfectly fine. But a 9.9 broad isn't like the worst thing in the world. But when we're talking about RJ Harvey's of the world doing a 107 and Tootin with a 1010 and Laquin Adams and Giddens with a 1010 judge, you know, there's a difference. A lower body explosion. So at what point? And then you look at the, you look at the 455 and the 40 yard dash, it's only 205. And now you're looking at what I say. Eight guys ran a four, four, three or better, you know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, it all adds up. I get it. And that's why he may not go. He may go a little bit later than those guys in the same bucket. I totally agree. Watch the tape. And I know you're going to agree with me on this one, too. Find a guy who hits the hole harder, find a guy who runs, runs harder than Jordan James, you're going to have a hard time.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I guess, I guess what I'm presenting to you is we've got, we got. Sorry, DJ Giddens at 6, 6 foot 2 12, second best vertical, second best broad, top, top 740. Ran a 443. We got Bashul Tootin, like, like almost a combine. Record breaking type days at 206, 509, 2, 206. Ran a 4, 3, 2. By the way, that 4, 3, 2, folks, is faster than Jameer Gibbs, faster than Saquon Barkley. Like.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, Saquon's a lot bigger, but.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jameer isn't.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No.

[Todd McShay]

And Jameer's like electric.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He's an okay.

[Todd McShay]

He's electric. So I don't know, it's just these are eye opening numbers. So again, not in that tier, based off of tape a tier below. But Giddens with that performance, Tootin with that performance, Burchard Smith, I got to him Got to him before former receiver. He ran a. I had 439 as the. As unofficial 439 official. 439 official. Now his jumps weren't any good though. 32 and a half might have been the. It was among the like 3 or 4 lowest and not shock. I don't see that lower body explosive. I see speed and finesse and smooth. But his speed, like a huge 439 versus a 45 5, you know. But their tape is totally different. Yeah, the tape. Giddens isn't like Giddens. We can have a conversation out of Kansas State. Okay, Giddens, we can have that conversation. I'm not saying you're going to win the argument, but we can have a conversation. Interestingly enough, the best measurable guy Tootin. I just finished his tape. I like him a lot. I don't think he brings the complete game like the pass catching, the ability to make guys miss like James does. He doesn't heat it up the same way. Even though his numbers say differently.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know. Devin Neal. Good day.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, good day.

[Todd McShay]

213, not great, but good. 213 pounds 5, 11, 10, 4 broad jump, 37 and a half inch vertical jump. Both good. Not elite. Below average. 40, though. What was. I wrote. I only had unofficial when I.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

4, 5, 8.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, really below average.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I said this about your boy, Upton Stout.

[Todd McShay]

So two of my favorite runners in this class, Jordan James and I have like nine favorite runners in this class, but two of my favorite runners in this class. I'm sorry, cut you off and you can go ahead. But Jordan James and Devin Neal did not run the times. They ran Emmett Smith times. Let's call them.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Oh, yeah, let's call them that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Love to call them that.

[Todd McShay]

So if you're gonna argue for it, like, yeah, look at Emmett didn't run fast.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

There's lots of bats.

[Todd McShay]

There's lots.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But that's.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And receivers too, by the way, that. That don't run those in those low numbers. But I said this about Western Kentucky nickel. Upton Stout, who you love, didn't have a great workout in terms of the numbers. There's a lot of teams to be happy with that. Devin Neal, you know, go ahead. You pass on Devin Neal. Yeah, you. You. Yeah. You know what they're going to be calling each other.

[Todd McShay]

Let them be a lot of those.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Phone calls between these decision makers saying, oh, you know, I saw. You saw Neil run. Right. He didn't look that good. I don't know, man. I don't know. And then that, that guy who's. Who's like downplaying in the entire process will be the guy that takes them.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Let him, Let him fall to us in the fourth round. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Let him come to us.

[Todd McShay]

All right, quarterbacks or wide receivers, where do you want to go first?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Let's go wide receivers first.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. This wide receiver class, not the greatest. We've said it from the beginning, but a lot of intriguing numbers today. I thought it was interesting. Let me say. Let me ask you this first. Have you read anything about Ted McMillan from Arizona or Emeka Abuka from Ohio State having, or was it injury related or was it choice?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I did not see.

[Todd McShay]

I did not either. I sometimes wonder if people think that they're. If players think based off of agents or their team around them, that they're rated higher, locked in, whatever it is.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And that question comes to mind, assuming that there wasn't something significant with Ted McMillan that we have not read with Ted McMillan from Arizona. I said it earlier in the week. I finished up his tape. I think he's. I think he's a good, really good player. I see that. I see the length. I see the ability to get down the field. I see the acrobatic catches. I also see a guy who lacks urgency and consistency at times. I think he needs a lot of work as a route runner. I thought Drake London is a. Is a fair comp in that there's similar traits and heights and weights and kind of that athletic flexibility. Yeah, like. But I thought there was a lot more dog in Drake coming up. Yeah, I did. I don't see. For me, the top cluster is 3D.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Ted McMillan. Matthew Golden, Ameca Buuka Amica. Let me start with this. I'm not sure the exact reason. I'm sure he had a perfectly good reason. And by the way, reason enough for me is Ohio State played like three days ago. It feels like in the national championship game.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, but those backs came out and put on a show.

[Todd McShay]

They did. But I'm saying maybe it's different at the wide receiver position, trying to run that track. Time, give them. Give himself. You know, three more weeks to prepare. I can live with that. When did Arizona Devil's Advocate. When did Arizona season end?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

October.

[Todd McShay]

Good lie. So. And if you see my eyes going up there, I'm watching Tyler Schuck finish up his quarterback throwing. So I'm not ignoring this show and pretending that I'm not here. I just want to make sure I get Just as many throws in as possible. Truth be told, like I told you, full transparency at all times. We said 7 o'clock. Probably should have pushed it back to 8 o'clock, but it works out perfectly fine. We got all the numbers in that we need. We saw the first group of quarterbacks work out. We've seen a good portion of the quarterbacks working out. Now I'm watching Jalen Milro throw mention I go back probably on the plane tomorrow. We'll have the tape. Okay. And we'll go and watch this a little bit more. We're gonna have a huge review show Monday afternoon. We're taping it at 2:00 Eastern. Should have it out later. We will have it out later that day. Okay. And Tucker's shaking his head up and down. That means we will have it out later that day. My man comes through and we're going to break down all this stuff and we can get into more detail. And I got a lot. I sent you some notes. I got a lot of stuff. Oh, yeah, last 24 hours from GMs and what's good decision makers. A lot of stuff that we're going to get to on Monday. Okay. And I get the McShay report is coming out on Monday morning.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You're going to, you're going to want to double down.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. You're going to want to double down for 36 bucks or at least. At least any up to 4 bucks to get involved through this draft. I was shocked at the information I got. I wasn't shocked, but I, but. And I'm not holding out tonight because the quarterback, receiver, running back workouts. I'm not holding out tonight to try to get people to subscribe and all that. Like, it's just not my nature. I'm holding out because I need to confirm a couple things before I'm ready to say the things that I want to say. But we got a lot of things to get into. Reviewing all these numbers, putting it all in perspective, really giving you the winners, the disappointments, guys who are rising. But also some information from a week here in Indianapolis where, like if you're, if you're a bellhop or a valet, you're going to have some, some NFL draft buzz right by the end of the week. So we got a little bit of information that we want to go through. But Ted McMillan, Matthew golden and Emeka Buka. Abuka gets a pass. McMillan. I'm curious what the reasoning was, but Matthew golden said, yeah, I'm working out. Yeah, let's go Put it on a.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Show, I'll give it a shot.

[Todd McShay]

And he ran a 429, folks, a four two nine. And so when I say to you it's just my board and I don't know what your board and speak freely on what you think here. But from my tape evaluation, and here's the beauty, they're all completely different players. McMillan is a Drake London, he's an outside ex, tall guy, box you out, make acrobatic catches, those sorts of things. Abuka is like the most consistent, reliable. He is a security blanket for a receiver, for a quarterback. He can work in the slot, he can work outside. He'll pick you apart in zone as well as he'll pick you apart in man. The dude is just consistent. But he's not going to be a huge vertical threat for you. And that's why he probably wanted three more weeks to train to run a number that he was satisfied with. And I don't blame him. Okay. But Matthew golden is a lightning rod. His ability to get in and out of brakes, his like, like, like his snap, his sharpness, how crisp he is is his, his secret sauce. And then his ball skills too. Something you think about some of the.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Big catches, body control.

[Todd McShay]

And so when Golding comes out today and runs a four two nine and has the workout that he had, I was thrilled for him. Man. This is a guy who transferred in from Houston, was kind of sitting behind Isaiah Bond, who was supposed to emerge as the star this year and never did. And we'll get to Bond versus Golden today because I thought that was hysterical. Five'eleven 191 pounds. He only ran the first 40. I'm not sure if he tweaked something. He didn't have the jumps. But that 4.29.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Is all we needed to see. It was almost like a Dion thing.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, you'd see later.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's my one run. Adios.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Everyone else wanted to see him run again because it was electric. But you know, I did what I, what I came here to do.

[Todd McShay]

So that four two nine now is I'm starting to put together the tape and it's confirmed because remember, this is a guy like we didn't know enough about and how he was going to handle playing at a big time school in big games. And the games got bigger each week. His performances kept, kept staying there, steady. He was the guy. I don't know, man, it makes me.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Go back and think, so five'eleven 190.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

If he's one inch taller and ten pounds heavier. I don't think we're even having the conversation, which is kind of to your point. I think if he's, if he's one inch taller. This kid's six foot, 200 pounds. I think he's the number one wide receiver on the board. I think it's close. I had the same grade for him and McMillan coming in both. I had 90s on then. People might think that's high for Golden. I. It's like it, it's what you said. I see the best Route Runner in this class when I watch the tape. And then you see the guy who's got the speed to take the top off the coverage. And some of these catches that he made down the stretch where he's, you know, having to bend backwards and, and twist around and snatch the ball out of the air and he does it naturally. It wasn't like, wow, I just made, like, look at me. I just made this crazy catch for once in my career. Like he could do that Repetitively, this.

[C]

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[Todd McShay]

Said and done, I'm just gonna have my number one receiver. Why am I fussing around if I don't love one guy and I love another guy? Just because the measurables are different. I just, I don't know. There's time. But I'm just telling you I'm leaning towards because I trust him more. I just trust them more.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And you know who I trust a hell of a lot? Mecca. Buca.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I know. And a lot of great drafts. You're thrilled about getting them early Second. Maybe you got it. Maybe you're paying late first this year because there's not, there's not the, the catalog there this year that you'd like to normally have.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But I think that's a great way of evaluating his market. I don't think he's normally a first round pick.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he could go there.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I'm not excited.

[Todd McShay]

But I also want to remind you, like, half the great wide receivers in the NFL were second round draft picks.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

True.

[Todd McShay]

Do you know, like true?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. And I think he's got a chance to be a really productive receiver in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

I'm obviously blowing out of proportion, but I'm telling you, if you go down the list of like the top 20 receivers in the league, there's a disc brake, disproportionate amount. They come from the second round. Right. And so even if it was a second round pick, like what, what's the difference if I pick him at 40? Do I feel better, I sleep better? I want to know who's who. Who am I going to trust is going to come into camp and he's going to be ready and he's going to be someone who's reliable for my, my quarterback. He's going to make us better.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so, so McMillan better have these phenomenal traits to go along with the, the flash tape. It's not flash tape. A lot of good plays and good things he does on tape, but it's got to kind of counterbalance some of the stuff that still has to be developed in his game.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So do you see the note on the Texas wide receivers, by the way?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Four wide receivers over the last two years with sub four, four 40 yard dashes.

[Todd McShay]

Well, let's get into this.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's crazy.

[Todd McShay]

Let's get into this though. Isaiah Bond, he's a big name, big name in college football. Played for one of the biggest programs in college football. Played with an offensive coordinator who was a head coach in Steve Sarkeesian. Played with a quarterback who was one of the best quarterbacks in the country. Didn't have the best year of his career, but widely regarded as one of the best college football quarterbacks in the country. He had everything. Yeah, he had everything. He's also allegedly blessed with like, like track speed, you know, like Usain Bolt speed. Yeah, I mean, not really, but like he's supposed to be. And so we were. Here's, here's the message that I was getting from the league. Don't give up on Isaiah Bond because he's going to put up a number that is, is so ridiculous. And he has some. He has a type of speed where we're going to game plan around him, not we're going to game plan with him with installs every week and we're going to get that ball in his hand no matter what. And. And he's going to be able to go do things that a lot of other guys simply can't because they don't have that speed.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Is this the most disappointing 4,394yard dash in the history of the combine?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, he just hyped himself up. I'm going to break the record. Why say that? Why get on that podium and say, and by the way, I don't understand all this stuff. Again, apologies. I'm still trying to learn everything. Apparently his miles per hour was the highest at some point that he reached the highest miles per hour. Yeah, 40.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So I guess that's good. I guess he broke that record or. I don't know. I don't know what that record is. But when you come out and say I'm gonna run a 4:2 and then you run a high 4:3 and you've had the season that you've had, I just, I don't get it. Man, what a disappointment from how disappointing this has been since he left Alabama because I really thought he flashed at Alabama. I thought when he went to Texas this was a kid who's going to have a great 20, 24 and just skyrocket and it just hasn't gone that way.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, so you got that graphic up. Oh boy. Tuck. Let me see there. 40 yard debt. Yep. So that's the miles per hour. That's what you reach at top.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. But you can sustain it, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I noticed because they did it pretty cool. It was Golden Bond and I think. Was it Xavier Worthy from last year.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And A.D. mitchell too? And a sub 4. 4.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think they didn't do, I don't think they put Mitchell in there though. The simulcast.

[Todd McShay]

Right?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I thought he, he weirdly got like a slower start compared to the other guys and was trailing.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's interesting.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. But anyway, where else you want to go with these guys?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Because there's, you wanna, I mean, listen, I'm not gonna, I can't believe you're holding back your guy, Jalen Noel. Noel have a day. Another guy. Just, you know, you want him to show up here, you want him to do well and just, I don't want to say he didn't disappoint. Like he exceeded expectations in almost every way.

[Todd McShay]

But I, I, I want to remind you when I watched his tape, I, I said, I said to you, I don't care, I don't care about his size. I really don't. I see a player that I absolutely know what I'm getting. And yes, he's not ideal in terms of his measurables, like his height and his height and weight. He checked in at five, ten and a quarter which is like. But that's the other thing. Like 5, 10. We're not talking about 5, 8 or 5, 9. He's over 5 foot 10. He's 194. This dude is packed.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's not tiny. No, he's tightly packed.

[Todd McShay]

Now the biggest concern of all of it would be the arm hand measurement combo because he's got eight and three quarters, which is, you know, smaller hands, but more importantly the 29 and a half inch arm length. So like the cat and I wrote that in my report. The catch radius is probably the biggest knock I can give on.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. But he catches the guy, he catches the ball like a guy with bigger hands.

[Todd McShay]

Extremely well.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He's confident. He's snatches. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Strong hands in traffic. Contested catches for a small receiver. Outstanding small hands. But it doesn't show up to me on tape. Nine drops for, for Jalen Noel. I'm telling you, like, why is there talking about an Iowa, Iowa State wide receiver. We got all the. Because what. His performance today was phenomenal. His production was absolutely phenomenal. When you look at the final three seasons, 202 catches, 25, 86. Okay. 18 touchdown catches his last three seasons. Elite separation skills.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Awesome.

[Todd McShay]

I'm talking about like a 5 year NFL vet in the slot with exceptional quickness and speed. The ability, like I put it on, go to my McShay 13 on X and you'll see there's. I did it. I kind of got crazy one night and I had music going in the background and we're ripping through some videos and I'm getting yelled at by Dan, our producer, our other producer, who's telling me that how do you not take screen grabs of it? Marissa's saying, I've been yelling at him for months now. You got to screen grab it or whatever, catch it or whatever. So I'll get better at it, folks, but you'll get the point. His ability to understand, leverage his stem, set defenders up, work in and out of zones. It's phenomenal. No fear over the middle, tough as nails. Like, I don't see what the downside is. Outside he does. He's not a massive guy with a great catch radius. But how many guys around? I mean, we've had so many highly productive receivers like this and a lot of them didn't put up these numbers. Jalen Noel, 5, 10 and a quarter, 194, as I told you, 41 and a half inch vertical, tied for the best in class 11. Two broad jump, best in class 4, 3, 4, 40 yard dash, third in class.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Not bad, bud. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I got news for you, his running mate, his buddy there.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, he had a good name too. £214, ran a 447-Jaden Higgins.

[Todd McShay]

I'm telling you, in two years from now, if you were to say, like the, the Iowa State receiving tandem, which, by the way, they perfectly complement one another, right?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep. One's an outside guy is gonna make.

[Todd McShay]

One's an X.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

One's A. Yeah, exactly.

[Todd McShay]

You get your X, you got your Z. Both have speed, both have great route running, both can get off the press, Right? Higgins has one of the best, like press array leader packages.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. If you were to tell me in three years that those two guys were starting receiving tandem in the NFL, that would be awesome. Pretty good.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. If they end up in the same place, that'd be great.

[Todd McShay]

Which they won't. But no, I'm like, well, we didn't think Braden Fisk and Jared Verse would, but you never know. Those two guys were just amazing today. Yeah. Higgins, like you said, the height, weight, speed, length combination with the vertical and the broad jump in the 447-40-at 6, 4, 2, 14, he's got 33 and an 8th inch arm length. That's elite.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And you see it on tape again, it translates to tape. He's the guy who can go up and get it.

[Todd McShay]

And the 39 inch vertical, the 10, 8 broad jump. So those two guys. When we talk about tiers, I think it's Ted McMillan, Matthew Golden, Ameca Ebuka. Not in that order. Okay. I think I'm going to go golden. Maybe a Buca, then. McMillan or golden. We'll see. Probably golden. I'll go golden. McMillan.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Thank you.

[Todd McShay]

Ebuca.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No. Luther Burden. No, not in that group, huh?

[Todd McShay]

No, he's great. He's great with the ball in his hands. Anyone who's watched tape for five minutes knows that. Sensational with the ball in his head. Ran well today.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Low 4.

[Todd McShay]

4. Ran a 4, 4 1. Really good time, no jumps. There's a little buyer beware there. Talking to people in the league.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Mm.

[Todd McShay]

Why did. Why'd he check out of that Alabama game? He wasn't getting the ball. Heard that before. That's gonna be some stuff he's gonna have to answer. And. And there's some stuff that he's gonna have to answer, so. And the consistent. I didn't think this past year quarterback play wasn't as good as quarterbacks here at the combine, though. He's not that terrible. Right, Right. Luther Burton's going to be interesting because my point was we came into this year and it was Ted McMillan and Luther Burton. Right. That's all it was. Matthew golden was like number three on the. On the Texas depth chart.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And now he could be WR1. Amica Buka. Yeah, he's a good number, but, like, he just. He kept stacking good tape. And so now we've got McMillan. Maybe I'm dropping. Maybe not even at a number two receiver, but dropping from like a top five, in my opinion, to. I think we're getting later first.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. He doesn't seem like a top 10 pick to me.

[Todd McShay]

No. But he's been mocked by everyone as a top 10 pick.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And it drove me crazy. And I got annoyed because our mock draft had to came out late because I wanted to make sure, like, this is. So that was one of the reasons Burden wasn't in the mock draft. And it won't be in Mach 2.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, I agree with you, but Jaden Higgins and Jalen Noel are starting to climb up, Moving up, man. And it was based off tape, remember? Tuck, do we have my wide receiver rankings coming in? I love Nick in the corner over here doing his Stretches.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's been a long week.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, my hips are tight, I'm telling you what? But the wide receiver rankings, McMillan. I still had a one. We'll see how that plays out. Golden and Buka Burden at four. He's not going to be there when I release the new ones. In part because of conversations. The 44 one's great. Didn't see the. I didn't see any jumps from him. Eight and a half inch hands I thought was interesting and also in part because these other two guys are really, really climbing. Tre Harris. I've got at seven more talk about him because and I'm going to give you the floor. I had him at seven, but the gap was extremely tight. I don't know that it completely changes, but talk to me about his numbers, what you saw and where that brings you with him.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think he's a top five guy. Listen, you're going to look at that 40 and you're going to say tell.

[Todd McShay]

Me about him as a receiver first. Sorry.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I just love how tough and physical he is after the catch and I mean that's not the most important thing in a receiver, but that's the funnest thing, the, you know, the most exciting thing for me when I'm watching.

[Todd McShay]

Well, it's hugely important for an X wide receiver in a west coast system.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

When you get him the ball quickly. He's not a fun guy to tackle. He's just not a fun guy to tackle. I think he runs very well on tape. I don't see any speed deficiency on tape. I think he can separate underneath. So this is that. I think he, he's a pretty good route runner against man. And this, these are the numbers I want to keep you keep in mind when I'm talking about this. He ran a 4, 5, 4. So you're like, yeah, 4, 5, 4. He wasn't quite as big as I thought he was going to be. He was six, two and a half, 205 pounds. I thought he was going to be more 210, more 215. So not quite as big as I thought it was going to be. But keep this in mind. 10 yard split. 156. What's an outstanding time for receiver? 155, 10 foot, 5 inch broad jump. We're talking about that lower body explosiveness again. This is a guy that can get out off the ball. I think he can get in and out of breaks. He's tough, he's physical. He was hurt for a good portion of this year. If he wasn't and he still had a thousand yards receiving, by the way. If he wasn't. I think the buzz is even greater with him.

[Todd McShay]

You know, he has. Well, I don't want to say a lot of similarities too, but some in terms of the run after catch and physicality, is Debo Samuel.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And we just got breaking news shortly. Just. Just a little while ago, I wanted to confirm. I. We'd heard it, but I just saw it again. Debo Samuel traded to the Washington Commanders, Right, for a fifth round pick. That surprised you?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Fifth.

[Todd McShay]

That's surprising. And am I crazy?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Fifth seems high.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I thought you were saying it was low. No, I was saying I think it's pretty reasonable.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

A fifth round pick for Debo Samuel.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Okay, good. We were running down here to come on the show. We had heard it. We wanted to make sure.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think the Commanders are getting a steal here.

[Todd McShay]

Oh.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

For fifth round pick for Debo Samuel.

[Todd McShay]

So you're saying, are you gonna get.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

A receiver like Debo Samuel in the fifth round?

[Todd McShay]

It's about money and finance. Okay, so I was right initially.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay, you think it's reasonable.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. We see this all the time, man.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I know. I know we do. It drives me nuts, though. I don't think that's good value.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I mean, we're not here to like, pat Debo in the back and. But you're worth a second round pick right now. This isn't. Isn't what we're gauging. It's like trying to get out of some. Some cap stuff, trying to figure out how to move forward the roster, trying to bring in. You know. It's interesting though.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. A week ago, the Commanders thought they were getting Matthew golden at 29. Then they saw that 40 and they're like, that's not happening anymore. Might as well trade for Debo.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure John lynch was.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No way Golden's gonna be there now. Might as well trade for Debo.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure Adam was. Was looking at that.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It is interesting though. Now, San Francisco, I mean, they drafted a receiver, Ricky Pearsall from Florida last year in the first round, but they.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Might trade Brandon too, so they. They might be in the market for a guy. Lot of dust to settle here, man. We'll see what happens.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah. I love going through my brain.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But anyways, back to Trey Harris. I think he's a top five guy.

[Todd McShay]

Top five receiver in this class.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, I think I'd take him over Burton, although I would Be.

[Todd McShay]

Your top five right now.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right now my top five would be.

[Todd McShay]

I'll give you a list that you can work off of.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Golden slash McMillan. I got one right here. Golden slash McMillan. Man, I got Burden there. But I think he's dropping. So right Now I have McMillan, Golden, Burden, Harris, Igbuka, but Higgins and Noel. Noel are the next two. And I think both of those guys are climbing.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So it's going to be interesting. I have Harris as my four.

[Todd McShay]

Some disappointing stuff. We'll continue with that. Tez Johnson.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Love this guy. No one can cover him in the Senior Bowl. Loved him in some big moments this year. Showed up in big games, got the injury against Penn State, still came back and fought.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But he's 154 pounds and he ran 451.

[Todd McShay]

451?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

At one point you ran a 4, 5, 5 unofficial. And I read a note that, that no wide receiver since 2003 under 170 pounds has ever run slower than a 455. That was his first 40 unofficial, but his official time was 451. I don't have historical context, but I think we can all assume that it. Or put the pieces together that it's. It's a damning combination.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Not ideal.

[Todd McShay]

No lightning quick, tough, unbelievable with the ball in his hand after the catch. But can he hold up physically? And. And if you're gonna be that undersized, you better have like back breaking speed.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know, and so today was a rough day for Tez Johnson, some other guys that were. And it's because like, yeah, whatever. I'm not gonna go down a hole road, but maybe you get a great value for him. He's working, he's working with a nutritionist right now. You know, he's got 510 frame, essentially. Maybe he can get up to 165, 170 at some point and be, you know, so there's. It's not like the dream is over like by. By any stretch, imagination. It's just the, the hurdles a little higher for him to, to clear, if you will, in terms of where he's going to be drafted and kind of what the view is of what he can be in the NFL. So other guys that really stood out. I've got a little list here. Tim Dyke, Jim dk. Jim dk.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. Can we talk about that for a second?

[Todd McShay]

Oh, because we were trying to look up.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Good.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

This is what's fascinating to me is those two Florida receivers, Elijah Badger also had a good day. Not as good as Shim dk. But you look at that Florida offense, right. Instability at quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

D.J.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Lagway, talented, but young. Graham. Graham Ert's got.

[Todd McShay]

They had a Yale number three starting for them. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

At one point. So it's kind of. It was a messy season for Florida. Keep in mind, the Chim DK average, 18.6 yards per catch, and Badger averaged 20.7 yards per catch. And I'm thinking this because of the workouts they had today and how important it's going to be to go back and how difficult it is with that passing game being in the state that it was. But how important is to go back? Because Jim, Chim dk, if you want to give the numbers. I can give the numbers, whatever you want to do. Had an outrageous workout today. I mean, he was 6 foot 196 pounds, 15110 yard, 434 40, 38 and a half inch vertical, 10 foot 8 inch broad. I mean, those are outstanding numbers. Badger, by the way, six one, 200 pounds, 443, 35 and a half inch vertical. Pretty damn good day for the Florida kids.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

When you add in Montreal Johnson, the running back.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Those.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

They had some talent there, man.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Maybe it just wasn't being utilized.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You're making a good point.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Now that you put it all together for.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. So when you're looking at that, I like, this is what's so important for those guys, for guys like that. Because you look at Isaiah Bond and you. It's a clean picture. Right. I've got a. It's a clean picture that he had everything that he needed to be, to be productive, to have a great year, and it didn't work out. Now you look at a guy like Chim DK and you say to yourself, well, it was kind of messy there. Look at these workout numbers. And when he did get the ball, 18.6 yards per catch, he was making plays.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. It's actually interesting.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I surprise you every once in a while, right? You do.

[Todd McShay]

You do, man. Thank you for doing that. A few other guys jumped out. Jalen Lane, Virginia Tech. Jalen Lane. We know a couple guys in the league that really think they kind of want us to just shut up and not bring him up.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

There's a lot.

[Todd McShay]

But he ruined that for those guys today with the performance that he put out there. Jalen Lane from Virginia Tech, who's a great return specialist, really good, like core special teams guy. So someone you're talking about probably in that Third, fourth round range. You know, right away he can contribute. Probably going to be like a number four receiver early in his career. But these are numbers that make you think, huh, maybe this guy can be a really good number three. And there are guys in the league that believe in him. Okay. Guys that we trust. Jalen lane had a 40 inch vertical today, an 11 foot broad jump that, I mean I didn't, I, I did not.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Well, were the only two to do that I think to have that combo.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. And, and neither of them are these like big. I mean he's five, ten and a quarter. No, hold on lane. Five, nine, six, five one nine six. So five, nine and three quarters slot guys. 191 ran a four, three four with a 40 inch vertical and 11 broad jump. I mean those are like astonishing numbers.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Good luck catching that.

[Todd McShay]

So Jalen Lane is a player who, you're going to start to hear his name a little bit more when you, when you get into that late day two range. Okay. Ty Felton. Interesting cat, man.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Saw him at the Senior Bowl. He looks, he almost looks and plays a little bigger than the 6:1 frame.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, that's one of the things I had my notes. I love how competitive, how hard he runs after the catch. He breaks some tackles. He's, he's a more physical dude than you might think based on the frame.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I was a little surprised and only 183. I, I would have guessed he was six two and a little change. 195 maybe, maybe 200. I wouldn't have argued.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Saw the same thing.

[Todd McShay]

Isn't it weird? Yeah, I'm normally pretty good with that stuff. I'm not good with like balancing a checkbook or like, you know, like I don't, I can't handle most of the things around the house. I've very clearly have trouble screen grabbing and taking direct shots for my videos. But like I normally am kind of a weird like with that stuff. So I, that one threw me. But he ran a 4, 3, 7, 39 and a half inch vertical and a 10, 10 broad jump. Those are exceptional that combination. Great day. Another guy, I get to watch his tape every day. I mean there's 333 guys here. I've not watched 333 players yet. I will and I will get to about 400 usually each year. We got a lot of work to do when we get back home. Sam Brown Jr. From Miami. I've seen him studying camp. Like I know who he is. I know like, but this Guy only had 36 catches this past year. 509 yards, 14 yards per catch, two touchdowns. They had a lot of weapons, spread it out a lot. Yeah, but he was, he was like fifth in the team in receiving.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So when I saw his name on the list coming here, I was like, okay, because I've, you know, he's part of our list and everything. I was like, okay. So clearly there's something there. They got it right. They got it right because listen to what he put up today. Six, two and a quarter, 200 pounds. That's a big dude. He ran a four, four, four in the 40 and I had 41 and a half inch vertical. So I get some tape to study on Sam Brown.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, especially when you look at that £200. I mean, that's a bigger frame. A lot of these guys we're talking about are, you know, are a little bit smaller than that. He's. He's a guy that could play on the outside. I think he's a little inconsistent. I think you're going to see that. But if you're a receiver coach, you're looking at that and saying to yourself, man, I could work with that kid. The other guy I really want to highlight too is Colorado State's Tory Horton.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I thought he had a nice day. Like, I loved his 2023 tape. He missed most of this year, this past year with a knee injury. I love this 2023 tape. 11.8 yards per catch. And I thought to myself, man, under 12, that competition. Yeah, maybe he's not. Maybe speeds is, is not the thing for him. Maybe, whatever. Well, today at 196 pounds, 6 foot, he ran a 4, 4, 1. Speed's not the issue. This guy can run. And the other thing is the 37 and a half inch vertical does. That's not surprising to me. This dude will go up and get the football. He makes some acrobatic catches on tape. I'm very excited about him because he was a player that I liked a lot. I didn't think there was a lot of buzz about him. I think he's going to move into that middle round range.

[Todd McShay]

You know, it's interesting. I watch Royals, Jalen Royals from. From Utah State and Torrey Horton from. From Colorado State back to back. And I get the explosiveness. Royals ran a 4, 4, 2, pretty, you know, respectable size, 6 foot, 205, well put together. I like some things on. I'm not going to go through a scouting report. I've got it sitting right here. I Thought Horton was a better, like a more all around, Better all around player.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And that is not like shared with most people in the league. So maybe I just was having a bad day.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But it was good to see. It was good to see him work out well because I think Horton is very, very much underrated in this class. Savion Williams, last little nugget. I got some hysterical notes from different people in the last couple days. Apparently he's a, let's call it a big personality. He's got some funny lines in these meetings with NFL teams. He's a Wildcat quarterback. Played quarterback in high school, plays running back, plays slot receiver, plays X, plays Z, returns kick. He does a little bit of everything. Never going to be a master of one. Right. He's just like, he's never going to be the most refined route runner. He's never going to be able to dissect your zone and be great on, on, you know, read routes and all that stuff. But get the ball in this guy's hands, he's an absolute freak. He was supposed to have like 4, 3 speed. Didn't have it. But still, it's 6037, 222, and the cop is Cordero Patterson. Everyone in the league is like, he's absolutely. He's exactly what Cordero was coming out of Tennessee. A guy that, like, you just don't know what you're going to get. There's going to be some inconsistency. He's not refined in any way, shape or form. He's a big personality. But my goodness, you get the ball in this guy's hands, something special is bound to happen pretty soon. And so Savion Williams, one of those guys, the teammate of Jack Besh, who was the Senior bowl mvp. Two great wide receivers on that, on that team. But at almost 6 foot 4, 222 pounds, he still runs a 4, 4 8.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. So that's moving.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. I, I have had reliable conversations with people and this was before the workout and their caveat was, I want, you know, want to see if, if the numbers are what I think. So maybe it'll change a little bit because it wasn't four, three, it's high four fours. But, but it could be a day two pick.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Just because of that.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I kind of like the Taysom Hill comp.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Get some taste, some hill in him. Not quite as fast as Taysom Hill was coming out of byu, but what.

[Todd McShay]

Was taste was Taysom Hill.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He was a burner coming out of byu.

[Todd McShay]

Really? I thought he was more like. I thought he was, like, mid-44s. All right, don't need to dive into that now. All right, last part.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, get into it.

[Todd McShay]

Most intriguing for most people. Least important, the quarterback's throwing, as was the case with a lot of other positions so far. We've got offensive line tomorrow. By the way, it was 4 4.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

We're at 4 4.

[Todd McShay]

We'll have our review show on Monday. As I mentioned, it was, what, four, four, four.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So not as. Not quite as fast.

[Todd McShay]

It's still blazing. It's a pretty good comet.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

For a guy who is a quarterback.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. We've got our review show coming up. Thank you very much for watching on YouTube right now, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. If you're listening, we appreciate you listening as well. Please subscribe and like. And spread the word. Yeah, we're just. We're trying to grow this thing, and we appreciate all the support that we're getting. The quarterbacks. Right. It's an interesting group. It's frustrating that the top two guys aren't throwing, but we've already had that conversation. We don't. I don't. I'm not here to revisit it. Like, you'd like to see them throw. Will it change where they get drafted? No. Does it make him a horrible human being? No. Does it make the guys who throw great human beings? No. We did have a great conversation with Tyler Schuck, who said he would throw. He had a great line. I said, why are you gonna. Why are you gonna throw when some of the other guys aren't throwing? He said. He goes, because I've basically. Because I've learned over all my experiences. Like, you know, ultimately, he's saying, you know, part of the answer was, he don't take anything for granted like this. I thought this game was taken away from me. I didn't know if I was gonna walk.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And then he said he kind of adapted the mentality of, you gotta compete to compete. I was like, I like that. And he said, you gotta play football. To play football, basically, you better go out and show what you got every day to earn a right to even be able to go play the game that you love. I thought that was pretty awesome. Tyler Schuck competed. He's probably going viral right now. It was fucking hysterical.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

The pumping of the crowd.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. Cause you got to remember there are two groups. There's group one, like A through M or N in the Alphabet. Last names goes in the middle group. Middle portion of the workouts today after the running backs. And then the second group of receivers and quarterbacks goes at the end. And they just. They finished up working out probably like 15 minutes ago now. And shock. There were only like two or three quarterbacks, right? That and I'll look it up right now. Two or three quarterbacks. Actually, there were three quarterbacks who ran. Brady Cook from Missouri, Seth Hennigan from Memphis. Two guys that are. Hennigan maybe goes late day three, but probably not gonna get drafted. And then there's Tyler Schuck, who could be the third or fourth quarterback drafted this year. May wind up being the best of all these quarterbacks when it's all said and done. But he decided to run because you know what? You got to compete to compete. And he went out there and he called himself White Lightning.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I love that.

[Todd McShay]

And by the way, you owe me a dinner. I don't care what. When Jackson Dart runs. I don't care if he runs.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's never the bet.

[Todd McShay]

No, the. The bet was my boy's faster than Jackson Dart. You turn the best and Jackson Dart's my boy too.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I said Dar was a better runner.

[Todd McShay]

Four, six, three. He ran.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's a great number.

[Todd McShay]

And he piped up the crowd the first time he came back. He got. He got the crowd even going more. But the reason it was funny is because he was the only quarterback in the group running to the point where he finished his run, ran around, pumped up the crowd, and then had to, like, was dapping everyone up. Then had to, like, take a breather for three minutes before he went and ran a second one because there was no one else to run. It was the funniest portion of the combine so far for me. That and watching Jackson Dart try to do a cartwheel because he couldn't do a flip. So two of my favorite quarterbacks in this class are acting the clown. But Chuck runs a four, six, three. Remember I said to you it's one year of tape. The tape's as good, if not better than some of the. Than the other three that we're talking about. Those other three, in my opinion, from this year alone, the tape is as good or nearly as good as Cam Ward. Shador Sanders, Jackson Dart. That's my opinion.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. He's bigger. Significantly bigger than the other quarterbacks. Six, four, six, almost six, five. Two hundred and nineteen pounds, right handspan, ideal nine and three quarters. And you look at him and I said to you, he's got just as strong as arm. Like, maybe Cam is like Slightly, But I think his arm is in that same category as Cam Ward's, and it's better than. It's better than Chador's.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, there's no question about that.

[Todd McShay]

And I think Jackson's in that same neighborhood, too. They're all Cam and. But his arm strengths up there are better. His tapes up there are better. He's bigger and he's faster when he takes off to run.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

We have no time on dart yet, but he's faster.

[Todd McShay]

And so my point is there's a lot to like with this cat.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

There's a lot to like with him. Don't get. Don't get it twisted. There's a lot to like with him.

[Todd McShay]

I watched in spurts. I saw some inconsistent throws. I saw some. I thought he was a little flat throwing on the deep ball, which I didn't see on tape. Everyone. Did you notice that it was kind of the post corner they normally run.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

They flattened it out.

[Todd McShay]

People were. All the quarterbacks seemed to miss, closer to the sideline than the middle of the field. And I think even Kurt Warner brought it up. And it was very obvious. But my point was, even if the ball was in the right line, in the right accuracy portion of it, it still was kind of flatlined. But that was just. That was one throw. I did think he threw the ball well, though. You could see the velocity. You could see him trying to hit spots. Receivers weren't always there. A couple times he was a little. Little off target. I thought he did a really good job overall, but again, I love it. I did not watch the whole. The entire, like, every single throw. I will do that on the plane tomorrow back to Boston. Okay. And we can come back on Monday during our review show. Please tune in on Monday. We'll have that show out Monday, late afternoon, early evening for you, along with the McShay report that's coming out Monday morning that, like, I'm just gonna put him on the line. I'm gonna drop them on the table for this one, you know? Yeah, I'm just. I'm excited. We just. When you get good stuff, you gotta share good stuff. Okay. Yeah, but I thought he had a really good day.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Overall wasn't earth shattering, nor even if he had the best day throwing the ball ever, it wouldn't change the evaluation. But I think he came out and showed that same ability that you see on tape the other quarterbacks. What stood out to you from the. From the earlier sessions, especially with Jackson Dart. I mean, again, Cam Warden, Shador Sanders not throwing so I'm asking Jackson Dart, Quinn Ewers, Will Howard, just start.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I mean, we've got to start with Dart. Potential quarterback 3. I thought he had a good day. I had some concerns about. Not concerns. That's not what I would say. I didn't know how strong his arm was. I didn't know if he, yeah, I'll put it this way. He put more zip and velocity on the ball today than I thought he would and I thought that was, that's, you know, another thing that's positive momentum for him. I thought he had a nice day. He got the ball out early. He was accurate. There was nothing wrong with, with his performance today. I think two other names that really are worth talking about are Quinn, yours, who I thought had a nice day. I knew too, there was a couple times in the deep ball where again, I see it hang a little bit and I just wondering if he's not getting out as quickly. The other name.

[Todd McShay]

Three times I saw three.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Where it's, it just hangs.

[Todd McShay]

He's got this big arm. Everyone screams about, yeah, he can drive it as far as he wants to drive. Drive it. I never see it though.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I see the, the 30 yard throw that can be on a line when he lets it rip, which is rare.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And, and, and it's not a negative necessarily. If he's layering it in, he does a beautiful job with that. He really does. His touch and ability to layer the ball in with finesse and throw catchable balls is, is arguably the strength of his game. Okay. Yeah, but I, I agree with you. I, I, I just wonder, it's like, it's like that warning track power or something. I don't know.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Overall, I thought he helped himself. I thought that, yeah, you know, this is the first chance for him after the season has ended to come out and, you know, kind of show what he could do. I hope he has a really good pro day performance because he's a talented player and I thought today overall he helped himself. I thought Will Howard was a little uneven and how much was that of that was not working with these receivers that he's throwing to and the timing and the rhythm that all thrown off. How much of it was that he was getting either booed or cheered, depending on who you were asking every time he, he touched the ball. I don't know. But for a guy who, when I watched Will Howard's playoff run, that tape is outstanding. Outstanding tape.

[Todd McShay]

I talked to a couple people here who, and I'll get into it More in the the report. Some different stuff I'm trying to confirm in terms of other things, but I thought if he's really good tape. Yeah, really good tape. And the tape was nothing like the tape at Kansas State and the tape at the end of the year. And it's stuff that we've talked about, but.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I thought it was going to lead.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

During the regular season.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But that playoff run, man, is really impressive and I thought with that kind of momentum, if he had come out today and just crushed this workout that we'd be having a different conversation coming out of Indy. And it wasn't that. It was terrible. I don't want to say that I wouldn't, I wouldn't characterize it like that at all. But it was a little bit of a missed opportunity in my opinion.

[Todd McShay]

I agree. I thought it was inconsistent. Off target on both of his in cutting routes early on to the left side. Third one was on target. I, I did like I thought he was snapping the ball off. Great placement on the. And. And good zip on the deep outs. The in cutting stuff. I thought he missed on for Will Howard. Yeah. There are some people in the league that absolutely love this guy.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He looks the part, man. Six, four, two, three, six.

[Todd McShay]

He's going to go a little bit earlier than people think. And I'm not saying he's going the first round, but I think he's going to come off. He might come off the board before somebody else or like. I'm just getting information that there, there's. And I want to. I need to talk to more people. But my point is this, like there are some people that really got his. Got his back in the league. It's going to be interesting to see with Will Howard.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

What about Gabriel? What do you think?

[Todd McShay]

He's got an arm man.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He does, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Balls jumping off his hand. Spins it really nicely. Love his compact delivery. We've upset all these things. Saw it at the Senior Bowl. Certainly doesn't have like the 122 mile an hour fastball that some was reported or something. But the ability to spin the ball is really. Is really impressive. And I thought he threw a really good deep ball.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I didn't think he was as sharp with some of the intermediate stuff.

[Todd McShay]

He wasn't. He wasn't.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He wasn't at the Senior bowl either, which was very surprising to me. But again, go back to the tape and when you watch him in Oregon, he is very sharp at that stuff. So you wonder if again, this is why quarterbacks don't throw. Right. Because then we start saying things like, this was off, and that was off. Whatever. I don't want to overly criticize these players for going out.

[Todd McShay]

I thought he had a good day. Like, I think as a smaller quarterback, to come out there with, with other guys who have big arms and to stand toe to toe with them, I think if nothing else, it checks that box.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. You know, and if you're sharp on tape, that's what teams are always going to go back to.

[Todd McShay]

Jalen Millere is interesting, too. A lot of stuff in terms of, like, conversations I'm having different. Different concepts on how to develop them, how long it'll take to develop him. I thought he threw the. Again, second group. We were on the air for a portion of it. So I. I want to go back. But of the throws I watched, I thought he was a lot better throwing the football today than he was at the Senior bowl, whatever that is. The deep ball is as beautiful as it comes. You know, you're his.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You're his agent. You advising to run here? Yeah, yeah. I would have to.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I mean, we know he's fast. I'm not saying that. I know he's fast. And you could say, you know, Devil's.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe he's not as fast as everyone wants him to be.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's why I didn't.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, man.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

If he could have come out. Because if he runs three if.

[Todd McShay]

Right. But what if he runs a four, five?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's a problem.

[Todd McShay]

Because you're counting on him being special and different in that regard.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And you're counting on him to have, like, Lamar type.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So is there now doubt in your head? Is there now doubt that this. Because.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know. Let's see if he runs it as pro day. I mean, again, we're talking about a quarterback, but. But if his game is going to be built on mobility early in his career and then allowing him time to develop like a Lamar.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. You'd like to know if that's his elite trade.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, I'd like to know.

[Todd McShay]

Did Lamar run?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He did.

[Todd McShay]

What?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I don't think he did.

[Todd McShay]

Who? Somebody else? I don't know. I gotta go back and I. I.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Don'T think Lamar ran.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not your guy for 40 times in quarterbacks. I know, but.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But Lamar's senior season was different, too.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, today was awesome, man.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah, it was great.

[Todd McShay]

Today was awesome.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Running backs getting our back.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. That was top to bottom. I can remember some, like, defensive line group, some linebackers, like. I can remember Some cornerbacks, but I don't know top to bottom. We've had a day like that with the running backs ever.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

No.

[Todd McShay]

At the combine.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I can't remember.

[Todd McShay]

4, 4, 8 was the average 40 time for that group. And it was one after another. And the broad jumps and the vertical jumps, the measurables that matter. It was like, it was just, it was fascinating to watch because this is going to be, it's going to go down as one of the best running back classes ever.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. I remember McCaffrey put on a show. Yes, he had an awesome workout, but as a group, I don't remember a group like this.

[Todd McShay]

Right. So this was special. This was fun. We appreciate you all being here. We've got the chat going on. I didn't get to as many people as I wanted to. We got Brian Hayes just yelling fire. I love it. Or hoss, I'm sorry. Brian Haas. Yeah. So keep the questions coming in for next week. We're going to be back on Monday. As I mentioned. We're thrilled to like have, have 24, maybe 30 hours to kind of put all these numbers together, finish up the conversations with people in here in Indianapolis. We'll fly back tomorrow. The workouts for the offensive line will be tomorrow. No one wants us to listen. No one wants to listen or watch us talk about offensive linemen for an hour and 20 minutes after. They're just running 40s and stuff.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's not true.

[Todd McShay]

So we're going to see you on Monday. We're going to do a review show with all of that. We've got a lot of stuff talk. We talk to people in the league and just want to share, give some perspective on where we are with a lot of different topics, starting with some, some quarterbacks at the top of the board. Let's put it out there right now. We're going to get to some really good information. Okay. So join us on Monday. Check out the McShay report. Just Google it. You can subscribe for free $4 to get the pass through through the the draft season. Start on the go ahead. Start right now in the chat about McShave Report for $4. Don't look for it like come on. I was sympathetic early on but like four bucks I, I spend. It's four dollar water in a hotel room. No, all joking aside, I do appreciate it. I truly do. And I know it's a hassle and I know no one likes it and I don't like it when someone asks me for four bucks because if nothing else, it's a pain in the ass to go do it, but please do it. Support it if you can. Appreciate you being here tonight and we'll talk to you on Monday. Take care. Plus Present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit RG D help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, Hope NY or text hopeny in New York.