NFL Draft Second & Third Round Live Coverage

Summary

The McShay Show — 2026 NFL Draft Second & Third Round Live Coverage (April 25, 2026)

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Episode Overview

Longtime NFL draft and college football analyst Todd McShay, joined by Steve Muench and special guest Bill Simmons, cover the explosive second and third rounds of the 2026 NFL Draft. Broadcasting live from Netflix studios, the team offers insider intel and in-depth breakdowns of every notable pick, analyzes key trends, and debates the best available talent. The episode flows with on-the-spot reactions, real-time draft movement, and plenty of candid, irreverent banter, topped with signature inside-the-war-room insights.

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Major Themes & Highlights

• First-Round Recap and Day Two Prep: Reflection on surprises, trades, and positional runs from night one. Deep dive into the "best available" and team needs as day two picks approach.
• Edge Rusher and Cornerback Runs: Analysis of the deep and talented defensive class and why edge and corner dominated early second-round selections.
• Roundtable Draft Room Debate: Bill Simmons brings podcasting and Patriots-fan skepticism, especially around controversial picks and front office philosophies.
• In-Depth Player Evaluations: McShay and Mensch dig into tape, traits, production, and medical red flags for dozens of prospects, especially top 50 fallers and surprising risers.
• Draft Trends & Philosophy: Debates on positional value, trade-up strategies, and the impact of analytics vs. old-school tape grinding.
• Team Draft Strategies: Dissection of team-specific approaches—why picks fit (or don't), how GMs maneuver boards, and long-term impacts.
• Future Draft Classes: Lighthearted forward-looking takes on next year’s generational prospects and the early frontrunners for 2027’s No. 1 overall pick.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

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On the Rams’ 1st-round Pick and QB Philosophy

“Why not take the best time to draft a quarterback is when you don't need a quarterback. … Look how hard it is. You suffered through it for a half of a minute as a Patriots fan, that was really rough.”
— Todd McShay [11:05]

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On the NFL Draft’s Circular Hype

“The optical illusion of the NFL draft. We're just like, he gives me $20, and then six months later, I give him back $20. He's like, I've got $20.”
— Bill Simmons [15:06]

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Draft Board Philosophy

“If you ran a team, would you tell anybody what you were thinking ever? Because I wouldn't. … I would just never tell anyone what my board was, ever. What's the point of that?”
— Bill Simmons [16:14]

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On Contested Catches

“There's no 50-50 balls for [Denzel Boston]. They're all his.”
— Steve Mensch [06:08]

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On Day Two Edge Rushers

“Zion Young… he kind of is a maniac. He plays with a high level of energy and intensity. So tough, strong edge. You can play the run a little bit. Physical pass rusher.”
— Steve Mensch [05:10]

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Long Hugs on Draft Night

“If he was kidnapped and you hadn't seen him for four years and you thought he was dead and then he came back… Is the hug four seconds?”
— Bill Simmons [21:44]

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On the Backloaded Talent of the 2026 Draft

“It's a weird class where they're back loaded, right. We better get our corner now, though, before they run out. And this is a defense that I've got with five interceptions last year from cornerbacks. …So cornerback and secondary in general had to be addressed.”
— Todd McShay [134:37]

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Structured Recap With Timestamps

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First-Round Recap and Setting the Stage

• [00:34] Review of night one surprises: Jets' three picks, Dallas “reach” on Malachi Lawrence, and shifting team needs.
• [01:30] Best Available Discussion: Denzel Boston (WR, Washington) surprisingly on the board; critical run on corners and edge rushers anticipated.
• [03:50] Tension over Malachi Lemon and Philadelphia “stealing” picks like Makai Lemon from other war rooms.

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Second Round Pick-by-Pick Highlights

Out-of-the-Gate Movement & Best Players on the Board

• [04:00–05:00] Anticipation for edge rusher picks (T.J. Parker, Zion Young) and premium on traits versus production.
• [06:01] Bill Simmons joins: “Denzel Boston. Physical in traffic receiver.”
  • McShay: “Contested catches. 77%. Strong through the catch.”
• [07:00–10:00] Roundtable debate on the Rams' Ty Simpson pick — GM/coach dynamics, sending “messages”, and future roster plans.
  • McShay affirms the logic of grooming a QB preemptively.

First Defensive Runs

• [11:50] Patriots QB evaluation: concerns about size, lack of run game support at Alabama, and development curve.
• [15:46] Steelers’ odd transparency and Eagles’ calculated draft jumps.
• [18:13] McShay calls the Chargers “scary,” predicting instant impact from Akeem Mesidor (Edge, Chargers).

Receivers, PR, and the WR “Optical Illusion”

• [19:05] Denzel Boston's slide continues—a recurring theme.
• [22:14] Patriots take Caleb Lomu (T), with lighthearted discussion on OL rookie “hazing” (joining the “car” with Drake May and Will Campbell) [23:33].

Quarterback Run Debate & NFL vs. NBA Draft Tiers

• [24:28] Second-round QB cluster: McShay tips Pittsburgh’s interest in Carson Beck; debate on how many from this class will start 30+ games.
  • “Over/under two-and-a-half, I’d go under.” —Bill Simmons [26:40]
• [26:35] “It's a year where I'm talking myself into the quarterbacks, but deep down, I know they're not that good.” — Bill Simmons [26:15]

Trade-Ups, Team Strategies, and Lateral Moves

• [30:31] Chiefs trade analysis: trading McDuffie, trading up for new corner — “A lot of lateral movement. Five years from now, we'll see.” — Bill Simmons [31:13]
• [32:03] Debate on when to trade up: “Never for an edge…maybe for a QB, but I'd be sick to my stomach doing it.” — McShay [32:41]

Defense, Defense, Defense

• [33:25–35:15] Comparing NFL draft tiers to NBA: “NBA, the drop off is massive. Once you get out of the lottery…crapshoot.” — Bill Simmons [33:39]

Positional Trends and the Analytics Era

• [36:06] “Everyone I talk to in college, the high, high up people are, like, please save us.” —Bill Simmons & McShay on NCAA mess [36:09]
• [38:49–39:47] On the first center: “You just feel like the first interior, first center, should be from Iowa…big hands. Built like a blacksmith.” — Bill Simmons [39:14]

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Live Second Round Draft Reactions

Player-Specific Highlights (Approximate Timestamps)

• [45:45] Kaden McDonald (IDT, Houston): Emotional green room hug after slipping out of round one — “The only guy of all the invitees to come to the draft and not go in the first round.” — McShay [86:19]
• [47:46] Colton Hood (CB, Giants): “He's perfect for this scheme: physical, confident, on the up in his development.” — McShay [90:05]
• [53:55] Cornerback, Edge, Linebacker Run: “The league knows: if you want a corner, an edge, or linebacker, this is it.” — McShay [153:54]
• [55:15] CJ Allen (LB, Colts): “Instinctive, strong and violent for his size…just instinctive, tackles well, and can get after the quarterback a little bit.” — Mensch [156:21]
• [57:55] Eli Stowers (TE, Eagles): “It’s a weapon…he understands how to find pockets in coverage, the speed's great, quarterbacks are going to love this guy.” — Mensch [158:56]
• [63:43] Jeremy Bernard (WR, Steelers): “Gets open, catches the football, gets upfield, makes plays…so reliable for Aaron Rodgers or any QB.” — McShay [128:04]
• [69:32] Zion Young (Edge, Ravens): “An absolute, certified lunatic. And I mean that in the greatest possible way.” — McShay [120:33]

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Third-Round Notables

• [202:07] Carson Beck (QB, Arizona — 3rd Round, First Pick): “Long, winding road. …He starts playing well, but then injuries and rumors. But at Miami, turns it around—shows discipline, leads a winning team. Arm's good not great, pocket poise. …A chance to earn the starting job and surprise.”
• [223:00] Antonio Williams (WR, Washington): “Among the top two or three best route runners, underrated prospect—aggressive after the catch, smart, reliable for a young QB like Jaden Daniels.”
• [248:02] AJ Halsey (S, Colts): “Downhill thumper, not the greatest athlete, but a maniac run defender. Smart, competitive, and a turnover machine.”
• [255:00] Chris Bell (WR, Miami): “Physical, strong—at times, not interested as a blocker, but when focused, does things few in this class can do. Injury and polish concerns, but round-three is worth the hack.”

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Other Segments: Lighter Moments & Big-Picture Takes

• [21:44] Extended ‘hug analysis’ (draft tradition nitpicked)
  “If he was kidnapped and you hadn't seen him for four years and you thought he was dead and then he came back…is the hug four seconds?” —Simmons
• [33:41] NBA Draft Comparison:
  “NBA, the drop off is massive. …At 16 to 40, crapshoot. In football, for the most part, the awesome guys are always top 12 or 13.”

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Key Teams & Strategies

Cleveland Browns

• Focus: Stockpiling assets, “best player available,” heavy on WRs and O-line to set up the future, especially for Shador Sanders.
• “The way they’re building—let’s stop getting third- and fifth-round QBs, fix this OL, and make sure we’re ready when the time comes.” —McShay [273:27]

Los Angeles Rams

• Narrative around Ty Simpson: “Best time to draft a quarterback is when you don’t need one.” Building for long term, even if unpopular.
• Miss on Day Two receivers means pivoting to tight ends/set building (Max Claire).

Buffalo Bills

• Prioritize defense early despite offensive needs.
• “At some point, you’d like to think they’d get another receiver … I just think they could have gotten Igbinosun later.” — McShay [190:49]

Colts, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys

• Colts: Linebacker and interior OL focus; value/leadership traits prioritized.
• Chargers: Heavily fortify OL, build from the trenches with experienced, battle-tested prospects.
• Eagles: Masterclass in “pick value” — Stowers (TE), Markel Bell (OT), always staying ahead of the next trend.
• Cowboys: Fangio-inspired defense: waves of pass rushers, young DBs, and relentless pursuit of athletic upside.

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Trends and Takeaways

• Defense Dominates: Over two-thirds of second-round picks went defense, with priority on edge, corner, and linebacker.
• Team-Building Philosophies: Teams like the Browns and Eagles have clear, disciplined approaches (stockpiling, maximizing value); others (Bills, Jaguars) leave more skepticism with need/value disconnect.
• Medical/Character Red Flags Slide Top Talents: Corner Jermod McCoy and WR Chris Bell were frequently cited as top-32 talents with medical or maturity issues, explaining their descents.
• Quarterback Class Caution: Panel largely doubts the “clusters”; outside of Ty Simpson, most expect limited starting value from this year’s class.
• Tight End Gold Rush: A deep, versatile TE class yields a late-run flurry, with several traits-based lottery tickets likely to outperform college production.

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Useful For:

• Fans who missed the draft but want to know who rose, who fell, and why.
• Deep NFL followers interested in how teams’ philosophies played out, with honest assessments of every significant pick and philosophical digression.
• Those seeking the right blend of inside-the-war-room knowledge, technical evaluation, and candid, podcast-style fun.

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For Further Deep Dives

• Full scouting reports, updated big board and newsletter: theringer.com/todd-mcshay
• Ongoing draft banter and Discord community: (Reference made throughout the show for live chat and draft tracking).

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Summary by The McShay Show Recap Team — bringing you everything but the generic ‘who won the draft’ clickbait.

Transcript

[Todd McShay]

Welcome back in. It's night two of the NFL draft and we're thrilled to be here with you on Netflix again. What a wild ride last night. Yeah, man.

[Steve Mensch]

Some interesting picks, some trades at the end. I mean everything you wanted. Some surprises in the beginning.

[Todd McShay]

The jets wind up with three draft picks and they have a great night. Dallas with two exceptional picks. I thought even though a little bit of a reach for Malachi Lawrence, but with the realization that their new defensive line coach coach to met ucf, that's Malachi Lawrence and they certainly needed it. So there's a lot to cover today. We're going to review the first round of the draft and we're really going to get you prepared in the next hour with the best available. The teams that are coming up talk some of the needs and what needs to be accomplished. We also have a special guest joining us for this pre draft show in the next hour. But first, we want to thank our sponsors for allowing us to do this. It's been an awesome ride and we're excited for tonight. But now we got a word from them. You're listening to the McShay show presented by FanDuel. And soon we'll all be listening to all the names called in this year's NFL Draft. But with FanDuel, you don't have to just listen because FanDuel has all kinds of bets on where players will land. You know, I love this stuff. Not only can you bet on who will be drafted first overall, but you can also bet on whether a player will go in the top five, top ten, and so much more. So if you don't already have it, be sure to download the FanDuel sportsbook app today. Must be 21 and older in select states, 18 plus in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler. Call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. All right, Mitch, we got a lot coming up and we're going to review the first round in just a little bit. And as I mentioned, we've got a special guest joining us that we're excited for as well. But I want to take a look. I mean, everyone now is kind of flipping forward, right? We got round two coming up tonight, round two and three. I want to take a look at the teams that are coming. That 33rd pick is, is traded more often recently than it is kept and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. We also want to take a look at our at our best available board which is the, you know, the 10 best players in this year's class. And interestingly enough, Steve Denzel Boston, the wide receiver from Washington was the only player in our top 28. And there you can see on the screen right now on Netflix, those are the, the teams in round two. So it's 2.1 San Francisco, 2.2 Arizona. The bills are the third pick tonight. That's picks 33, 34, 35. Then you've got. And we, and this happened because there was a lot of movement late in the first round. The Raiders are sitting there with that, that fourth pick in the round. The Giants the fifth pick with a major needed interior defensive lineman, lineman and, and Kaden McDonald still sitting on the board. So there's a lot to get to. I'm interested when you look at this board from. Let's look at the top 10 still available. Denzel Boston, right? Yep. Denzel Boston sitting there, the number 20 player on our board. And now you can, you can see on the screen those are the top 10 players still available. Emmanuel McNeil, Warren. I get the sense overnight talking to some teams. He's going to be gone pretty soon. Okay. Same with Denzel Boston, the receiver from Washington who we had 20th ranked overall. Same with Colton Hood. The cornerbacks, there's, there's a cornerback group that we talked about. We expected to go early. Second, you got to remember Jamad McCoy still available, the knee injury, but one of his 20, 24 tape is outstanding. But we, we dropped him in our rankings because we had a lot of conversations with different teams and we knew it was going to be a second round drop. So you get Colton Hood, you've got your mod. McCoy, you've got some, you've got a nickel safety as you see there, number 36 overall in our rankings. Trade in Stuks from Arizona. Beyond that we also have d' Angelo Pons is the cornerback out of Indiana. Undersized but absolutely feisty. Corner Avion Terrell is the name I heard when talking to NFL teams over the last 18 hours or whatever it is. And oh and Brandon C. Say Cece from, from South Carolina. So the corners will go. The edge rushers too. I know you like some of these guys. Why don't you take us through these, these edge rushers that are available to teams that need that early on day two of the draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Well, let's start with TJ Parker out of Clemson. I mean I've been saying all along that I think this guy's a first round guy and you know his stock coming into the 2025 season, he looked like a player that could go in the top 10.

[Todd McShay]

Didn't have the best year when you

[Steve Mensch]

look at the stats, but then you watch the tape and I thought he played better than the production would suggest. I thought he had a great Senior Bowl. I thought he had a great combine workout. That' player that I would be eager to draft in on the second day. Zion Young. Your guy come a maniac. He kind of is a maniac. He plays at a. With a high level of energy and intensity. So tough, strong edge. You can play the run a little bit Physical pass rusher.

[Todd McShay]

Look at this.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, look at this. I was wondering who that was. We not have a mic for you.

[Todd McShay]

There we go. There it is.

[Steve Mensch]

Was. I was rolling on my side.

[Todd McShay]

See, I like. See, I. I think the people behind the scenes would. Would prefer, like, you know, we had a graphic up when we did. I like it this way.

[Bill Simmons]

This is. This is live TV at its finest.

[Todd McShay]

Guerrilla podcasting.

[Bill Simmons]

What did I miss?

[Todd McShay]

We just going. Going through our top available. I. I'm curious.

[Bill Simmons]

Denzel Boston. Physical in traffic receiver.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Contested catches. 77% strong. Strong through the catch does.

[Steve Mensch]

There's no 50. 50 balls for him. They're all his.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. How you doing, man? Bill Simmons, by the way. Not that he needs an introduction, but Bill Simmons joins us.

[Bill Simmons]

I did a very brief thing on my podcast last night thinking it was a really boring draft, and then saw the McVeigh press conference after, and I was like, holy shit.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is like some real deep stuff going on here.

[Todd McShay]

Is it for show? Is he just managing the law?

[Bill Simmons]

No, that guy is impossible of hiding his emotions.

[Steve Mensch]

You think he's angry?

[Todd McShay]

No, he's. Come on, Bill. Bill, He's. He's a coach who has a locker room that they have determined this is the year they're going to win their second Super Bowl. And he is. He's looking at this thing as. I need to send the message to Matt. To Matt and to everybody else, to Matthew Stafford that, like, this is nice and this is for the future, but my. My focus is on this.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Todd McShay]

I was texting with Les last night that like, they're. They're. He. These two are in lockstep. They're not going to make a pick that Sean doesn't. Isn't thrilled about, and they're both thrilled about this pick.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Steve Mensch]

I said the same thing. He kind of talked me off the ledge a little bit, but that's how I felt like I don't know, man.

[Todd McShay]

It was a little over the top, I'll give you that.

[Bill Simmons]

This felt a little like, yo, thanks for the super bowl, but you're not running the team. We are, and we're taking this guy. And I know you made a case for whoever at 13, but this is where we're going.

[Steve Mensch]

Especially the rumor that McVeigh is linked to Stafford when Stafford steps down. I don't know, man.

[Todd McShay]

I think this was all a charade that everyone fell for.

[Bill Simmons]

They knew it then. McVeigh should go into acting.

[Todd McShay]

But me? No.

[Bill Simmons]

McVeigh should start doing HBO dramas and stuff. If he's that good of an actor to pretend he's upset for the locker room, I don't buy it.

[Todd McShay]

You're not, as a gm, going to. Going to make this decision without the coach who is a quarterback, you know, developer and a quarter. Like, that's his whole being.

[Bill Simmons]

But is it possible. They told him we're going to trade back and take him at, like, 23, and they just said we're taking him here.

[Steve Mensch]

I know you love the player, but did they pull the trigger too soon?

[Todd McShay]

No, because. Because the word was starting to get out. The articles came. I was. How was. How was I the only person. I'm not doing, like, a victory lap here, but.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you did that last night.

[Todd McShay]

I did.

[Bill Simmons]

You did everything but run around the table with your arms up like Tom Hennicks when he built the fire and ca away.

[Todd McShay]

I made fire and I earned it. But I didn't scream into the mic because Tucker. Tucker's worried about the sensitivity of these mics. And he says, thank you. But looking at this, I think the word people started. There were articles coming out, and some insiders were starting to say there's a surprise team. And so they were worried.

[Bill Simmons]

Who else was taking him?

[Todd McShay]

Arizona. Trading up.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, but how high could they have traded up? Well, is anyone trading into the teens?

[Todd McShay]

I think. I think Arizona would have if they.

[Bill Simmons]

If so, what team's trading back?

[Steve Mensch]

Minnesota, Carolina? You think one of those would have.

[Bill Simmons]

So Minnesota, instead of taking the guy with who's broken his foot nine times, maybe trades back instead.

[Todd McShay]

That was a fascinating.

[Steve Mensch]

That. That actually makes more sense to me. Both teams would have done better there.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

What are the answers?

[Todd McShay]

Why do I feel like I'm on the defensive on this? I mean, McVeigh. McVeigh thrilled about this. That's the future. But he's got to send the message that we're not. We're not. Like, this isn't going to become some distraction, like he's a backup and you're

[Bill Simmons]

on the defensive because it's you victory lapped and we're trying to turn it against you so you feel worse about it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but that's the only reason it's starting to work. You say that.

[Steve Mensch]

How can you say it's not going to be a reaction if Puka Nukua isn't on the field for whatever reason? And they, they're, they have devonte Adams as a receiver and then it's a

[Bill Simmons]

bunch of 34 year old Devonte Adams.

[Steve Mensch]

I know they're probably going to someone

[Todd McShay]

tonight and this would be kind of. I already told you, like, they're working out. They're working out Dejan Stribling, Jeremy Bernard. Those guys are like equally effective in what they do.

[Steve Mensch]

Great. They don't work out. This happens in the NFL all the time. The guy they take in the second round, not as good as they thought. Not as good as we thought.

[Todd McShay]

They think that he's just for what they do. Those guys are just as good as taking Makai Lemon, who, who by the way, fell all the way to what, 20, 21 to 20. Yeah, to the Eagles. But.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, let's, let's. So we all think the Rams would be one of the teams we would pick to make the Super Bowl.

[Todd McShay]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

They were in that short circle of 6, 7. So they just took Reuben Short arm Banes, Ruben Short arms. Bain said that. Finally said that. Right. But if they just took him at 13 and like, hey, we added this guy, he's going to be an impact.

[Todd McShay]

I, I get that argument. Like I do.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't that make them better for this year? If Stafford is year to year anyway and McVeigh might be too.

[Todd McShay]

Stop empowering him. I'm just. No, I'm just leaning in.

[Bill Simmons]

If I was a they. If this was the Pats and we were in the exact same situation, I would be like, what the were we doing?

[Steve Mensch]

What are we doing?

[Bill Simmons]

Why did we take him here?

[Todd McShay]

Why not take the best time to draft a quarterback is when you don't need a quarterback. Look how hard it is. You suffered through it for a half of a minute. As a Patriots fan, that was really rough. And it was rough.

[Bill Simmons]

The Mac Jones interception in the end zone from 4 yards away when he underthrew it.

[Steve Mensch]

I keep dark.

[Todd McShay]

Really dark, dark moments.

[Bill Simmons]

Really dark.

[Steve Mensch]

I keep calling Simpson Mac Jones. Not happy about it.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's not. When's the last time we saw an

[Steve Mensch]

Alabama quarterback put up monster numbers as a One year starter who didn't have the job for three years.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Who went in the teens.

[Bill Simmons]

I know you're all in on Simpson, but does the, the size thing worry you at all? I know everyone's talked about the starts thing forever, but the actual size part, the fact that P's like a legitimate 225, that's the doppelganger for him. And Simpson is not.

[Todd McShay]

I, it's probably my biggest worry. It's not the arm strength, it's not the mobility. It's not the one year starter because I think he's so far advanced. I think it's the size and the fact that now they had the 125th ranked rushing attack at Alabama. They had a pass protection that was very much up and down. As you well know. The number one receiver just disappears off the face of the earth and so he takes a beating. But you're going to take a beating in a 17 game schedule in the NFL when he eventually becomes a starter. It also worries me that like, all right, Stafford's there two years. That means five of the last six years in his key development moments, he has not been a starting quarterback. So like, yeah, I'm, I'm not like screaming down the streets of la, this is the greatest pick in the world. But I'm, but I'm, but I don't. Yeah, but I'm screaming a. I feel at least someone who's damn good at evaluating quarterbacks in the league sees it the way I saw it on him, baby. It's kind of like an FU to everyone because it's like all this stuff leading up to the draft and McShay's mock stupid and no one's doing this,

[Bill Simmons]

that kind of chip on the shoulder. McShay.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

An edge. I get a little edge like C.J.

[Bill Simmons]

allen when he goes 63rd to the Pats today.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

On the shoulder. Right away.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, right away.

[Bill Simmons]

Maniac.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And so, so part of me is defensive in that regard, but I'm here to be. I didn't have him ranked as the 10th best player. I had him at 25. You did. So I recognize this is not some. Oh, it's their set for the next 10 years. You know, there's, there's definitely a goofy pick. Face value. Yes. But this is if you can get a quarterback you believe in now and have him there and learn the system and be around. So it's a partnership for McVay. You know, unlike Goff was a mentorship, this seems like the smart, long term move and they'll find their wide receiver today.

[Bill Simmons]

Best case scenario for Ty Simpson.

[Todd McShay]

Best in the world. Oh, without question.

[Bill Simmons]

Unless McPhay is furious that they took him.

[Todd McShay]

It was that or he is linked

[Steve Mensch]

with Stafford and he's leaving in a year. Like, let's say Stafford wins an mvp, wins the Super Bowl.

[Todd McShay]

No, thanks, everybody. No, no, no.

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe McVeigh was.

[Todd McShay]

Because McVay, the conversation about McVeigh being done, and I don't think he's gonna. He's. He's gonna be a lifer coach. That's. That's kind of people. I know that's kind of the feel. But he's not going with Stafford somewhere else.

[Steve Mensch]

No, no, no, no.

[Todd McShay]

Is that where you're.

[Steve Mensch]

No. Stafford's going to retire, and McVeigh's like, I'm going to do media for a minute.

[Todd McShay]

I'm going to do whatever that's. You can't totally rule that out.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, right. And then who you bringing in to develop Ty Simpson?

[Todd McShay]

Well, he's already had a year or two with. With it. I think Stafford's. Two more years. Okay. But we'll see. Look good last year, I mean, he won the mvp.

[Steve Mensch]

He did all right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he was all right.

[Todd McShay]

What else jumped out?

[Bill Simmons]

He stole Drake May's mvp.

[Todd McShay]

He did.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it didn't matter when Drake. Drake May wasn't good in the playoffs. We were all kind. All right, this worked out okay.

[Steve Mensch]

This is fine. Can't really make the argument.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd said this on my pod, when the jets end up with three first rounders, and it's like, look at this. We got three starters. But you also traded your two best starters to get to the three starters. The optical illusion of the NFL draft. We're just like, he gives me $20, and then six months later, I give him back $20. He's like, I've got $20.

[Steve Mensch]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, but that was your $20.

[Todd McShay]

But you. But six months later, you got back, like, $12. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

But the draft is hilarious like that. I thought it was so funny when Pittsburgh, they did the. The stick song. 320,000 people there waiting for their pick. And then it's like, we've taken a tackle and. Yeah, it's like.

[Steve Mensch]

And did the crowd know what was going on? You know, who knows?

[Bill Simmons]

There's so many people there. No, they didn't know that stuff.

[Todd McShay]

No, they.

[Steve Mensch]

The Steelers think they're getting Makai Lemon.

[Todd McShay]

That's a tough sell when you're rolling out your first round. Pick.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

If you ran a team, would you tell anybody what you were thinking ever? Because I wouldn't. Because I think that's a good example of Pittsburgh was probably a little blabber mouthy in a couple spots and Howie Roseman always seems like he's. Wait, what?

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

He's going, oh, I'm going to jump him. And he just jumped them.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And I mean, Iheanacho is a good player and they need an offensive tackle and.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You liked him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we like him a lot. I don't have a problem with the pick. I'm just saying from like the PR perspective is now the videos get out that you're on the phone with Mekhi Lemon and that's the guy you want and it gets ripped from you.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you tell people what your board was? I always thought that, like, the Giants did, that they were like number one non QB on our board and then we got number four. I would just never tell anyone what my board was, ever. What's the point of that?

[Todd McShay]

It would be me and maybe one or two other people that would be like, trusted as family, essentially, that I would bounce. And I. And honestly, I probably. If I was running it, I probably would keep it close to the vest to the very end.

[Bill Simmons]

Not a lot stood out. I thought it was a pretty boring draft.

[Todd McShay]

Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, no, not knowing. We knew the number one pick was we. The big question was where Love was going to go. He went third, so that was taken off the table. And then everything seemed to go where it was going to where you thought it was. There were really no surprises. Carnell Tate, that was mildly surprising.

[Steve Mensch]

If it wasn't Tennessee, would it be a bigger story? Like, you're like, oh, the Titans drafted this guy. Like, if it was a bigger team,

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't know who else. I thought maybe they'd take Styles there, but I wasn't like, oh, my God, what are you doing?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But obviously Reese being so young and. And being kind of. You just don't totally know guy. Like four teams passed on him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So I thought he should. I can't believe the jets didn't take him.

[Todd McShay]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

But we knew that was happening for a month and a half.

[Todd McShay]

You worrying about the jets getting all these weapons, getting all these weapons for. For Arch Manning or Dante Moore next

[Bill Simmons]

year, the answer is no games. Never worried about the Jets. Not worried about Miami.

[Steve Mensch]

Miami's bad.

[Bill Simmons]

It was funny that Buffalo and the Pats traded with each other. I thought that was interesting.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Dallas and Philly Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I liked Cleveland moving backwards and still getting what they needed. I was. It always seems so easy on paper to do that, but teams rarely pull it off and they just moved back three spots, got alignment.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

They had a choice of the best offensive lineman on the board.

[Bill Simmons]

The one. The one that really was like, oh, was Bain to Tampa, where you're like, oh, that's going to be a good one.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes you just know what the fit. You're like, ah, he's going to be good there. That'll be nice.

[Todd McShay]

And Akeem Messador, the Chargers. I feel like the Chargers are scary this year, man.

[Bill Simmons]

They're definitely.

[Todd McShay]

They're.

[Bill Simmons]

They're the. They'll be the sleeper August pick.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Steve Mensch]

If they still stay healthy on the offensive line.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And we talked. Yeah. We talked about on your show the other day. It feels like they're always the injury stuff, but now. Now they've got another edge rusher. And this guy's. He's 25. He's an NFL dude. He's a, like, legit pass rusher. Like, he's going to come in and he's going to make a difference, and he doesn't have to do much else in that.

[Bill Simmons]

25 is kind of hilarious for college.

[Todd McShay]

It's a new. It's the new world.

[Bill Simmons]

You're in your mid-20s at that point.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I felt like I was like, almost an adult when I was 24.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I was making big decisions. You're like, oh, man, Balancing a checkbook back then, you know, and.

[Steve Mensch]

But also, they're all making big money, too, so there's no rush for that guy to be like, I'm out of here. I mean, what he was making in Miami was probably pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

What is the number one player you're the most excited to see where they go in this second round?

[Todd McShay]

Denzel Boston, the wide receiver who you touched on.

[Bill Simmons]

That was surprising. I actually. I was wondering if the Pats were going to take him and then repeatedly telling myself, no, we have A.J.

[Todd McShay]

brown.

[Bill Simmons]

We're not.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they didn't take him. But I think they absolutely take him if they don't have that trade.

[Todd McShay]

Right. Yeah. Are you still worried about that trade after Philly. Philly moved go. What?

[Steve Mensch]

This morning, all the talk on another network was, are the Rams now. And the AJ Brown talks again, are they going to get back in? Because now they need a receiver. And I was like, man, when are

[Todd McShay]

you going to trust me on the Rams?

[Steve Mensch]

Shefty said, no, it said, it's a done Deal. The Rams are out. I'm just going to say it, but who? Is there another team in the shadows that.

[Todd McShay]

It scares me?

[Steve Mensch]

Is there another team that's. That might just.

[Bill Simmons]

Denver already got a receiver. Chargers don't need one. I'm trying to think of team setter competing in the Super Bowl.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe all this. This stuff going on with the Patriots is going to scare A.J. brown away.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Mike Frabel needs friendship. He needs people to trust.

[Todd McShay]

How are you doing on all this? You okay?

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty crazy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually was wondering if he was gonna, like, take a leave of absence. Last night when he did that second press conference, I thought he was gonna say, like, I'm gonna be going away until June. He didn't, but they had the wide war room shot of him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

There's like 25. When they're about to make the 31st pick and they traded up and they showed the. There's like 20 people there. I was thinking, like, what a weird day for everybody.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

This guy's like, entire life is caving in. The store is coming out constantly. Social media is on fire.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

And then here he's like, oh, what do you think?

[Steve Mensch]

Should we.

[Bill Simmons]

You like the tackle from Utah on the board. Should we get them? And there's just no way that's not hanging over everything.

[Todd McShay]

It feels like a good time to take a minute away, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. I mean, imagine this story was coming out in November or October.

[Todd McShay]

Like, yeah, really?

[Bill Simmons]

I. It definitely was a monkey ranch, but it was just that it tied into what a weird draft it was. Like, even the way they set the draft up, it was so long for Goodell to walk out, and it was so long for the players to come out.

[Todd McShay]

See, that's the stuff that we. We don't see when we're doing this.

[Steve Mensch]

It was better timing was because, you see the pick is in. We're like, all right, the pick is in. And he's walking.

[Todd McShay]

Right?

[Steve Mensch]

And he's walking.

[Todd McShay]

So, yeah, it did mess up the time. You got his steps in.

[Bill Simmons]

I did a thing on my show last night about how Goodell's hugs have gotten longer. And somebody emailed me today and went through the 2016 draft, and the hugs were about two seconds per hug, another four. So I was right.

[Todd McShay]

You were right.

[Bill Simmons]

Four seconds per hug.

[Todd McShay]

I love how we live in this society now where you can go back and check the tape on the hugs from other hugs.

[Bill Simmons]

If he was kidnapped and you hadn't seen him for four years and you thought he was dead and Then he came back, and you saw him for the first time. Is the hug four seconds?

[Steve Mensch]

No, it's like two, Right?

[Todd McShay]

It's two and a half. It's like that extra squeeze. Good to see. But then you push away and like,

[Bill Simmons]

four is, like, almost intimate.

[Steve Mensch]

That's.

[Todd McShay]

It is uncomfortable.

[Bill Simmons]

Weird. Yeah. And he's doing it 32 times.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know if he's.

[Steve Mensch]

Do you have to hug him, by the way? No one doesn't hug him. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Just do. Do the slap, like, quick, quick thing.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

The whole thing is weird.

[Todd McShay]

What do you think about your. The Patriots pick Caleb Lomo, offensive tackle.

[Bill Simmons]

I liked it that you guys liked him.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

You know, my comp was Will Campbell.

[Todd McShay]

Swear to God, A healthy Will. A healthy Will Campbell did a really nice job last year. I love Will Campbell.

[Steve Mensch]

At 28, Will Campbell, 28's great.

[Bill Simmons]

As you know, I'm always down for drafted linemen on either side every year in the first round, and they said, like, will Campbell's our left tackle. It's like, all right, well, at least you have insurance. Now you can say, will Campbell's your left tackle, but if he's getting dominated like he did in the playoffs, you have somebody else.

[Steve Mensch]

But I start to panic. I'm like, is Morgan Moses not ready to go? Is he not going to be? Is this why? And because they said they were going to manage this workload, all that stuff, I start to wonder if they really needed one more than we thought.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought they would trade back and was delighted that they traded up. They clearly were trying to jump somebody. It was either Kansas City or San Francisco.

[Todd McShay]

San Francisco. Yeah. Everyone had Lomu Mock to San Francisco as a perfect fit. He could use a year to develop. I'm not saying he has to have that, but he. San Francisco with Trent Williams, 38 years old, everyone thought that he was going there.

[Bill Simmons]

The big question for me is, will Campbell share Drake May with him because he's basically Drake May's bodyguard, protector.

[Todd McShay]

Actually a good question.

[Bill Simmons]

Is the second guy into the gang, or is he like, look, man, Drake's my guy.

[Todd McShay]

My movie is. You have to. If you're a Lomu, you have to go through Will. You have to win over Will, get to Drake.

[Bill Simmons]

You're Will's sidekick.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

I bet Will's welcoming. I bet he's like, we're in this

[Todd McShay]

together, but welcoming enough. Yeah. Where it's like, you can. You can get up to here.

[Bill Simmons]

Still a tiny bit threatened, but my

[Todd McShay]

hand's gonna be Right here on your head.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

I believe when they get in the

[Bill Simmons]

car, Drake's driving Will Campbell's pastor's seat. He's rookie's in the back, but rookie

[Todd McShay]

has to ask if he can get in the car. Yeah, not Drake. He has to ask Will.

[Bill Simmons]

He can't ask Drake directly. It always has to go through Campbell.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I heard you guys are going to lunch. Can I come? Let me ask Drake. You're paying.

[Todd McShay]

It's like. Yeah, he's the. Talk to Drake and I'll get back to you. I'll get back to you.

[Bill Simmons]

They'll work it out.

[Todd McShay]

They will. You excited for anything tonight?

[Bill Simmons]

Quarterbacks, There's a couple receivers. I think the receivers are the most interesting. You've talked about a bunch of them, but there's some wild card guys and we've seen every year there's two wish savers in the second round who become awesome.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And so where do they go? Who is it? There's no way to tell.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

It's impossible to predict. That's it. And then whether somebody takes a quarterback this round or probably not.

[Todd McShay]

I'm hearing that Carson Beck, I heard Pittsburgh's really on Carson Beck is one thing to look out for. I, I think Nuss Meyer, Drew Allergies, Cole Payton, Taylor Green, I think they're all third to early fourth. I think one of two things is going to happen with the quarterbacks. Right. Those four names I just mentioned are five, I guess. Carson Beck, Drew Aller, Garrett Nussmeier, Cole Payton, Taylor Green. Yeah, I think the last two I just mentioned, Peyton. Peyton and Green are probably going to be early day three, which is tomorrow, Saturday. But I think if one of them goes because it's not like the other positions where you kind of stack the board and these guys fit what we're wanting to do. Like if one of them goes, I think teams are going to start getting a little nervous. Like we better get him in round two rather than three or, you know, or earlier in three and move up and get him. But I also could see, we've seen this historically, guys that we think go late second, third round, they all fall to the fourth round. So one or the other is probably going to happen tonight.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I could see them falling. I don't think these guys are. I don't think I'm nervous about losing out on Taylor. I love Taylor Green and if we could get him in the third round and he falls to us, you're like, great, we'll do that. I'm not, like, necessarily nervous about losing him. You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

I have the QB cluster theory for drafts because it's for centers in the NBA and QBs and NFL where the guys just all get compared to each other for six months and you start. And if it's a. I'm talking myself into the quarterbacks this year, but deep down, I know they're not that good. But by March, you're like, no, I kind of. And you go glass half full on all these dudes.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

It feels like one of those years where, like, what would you go?

[Todd McShay]

Over.

[Bill Simmons]

Under Guys who will start 30 games from this class. And I gave you the over under of two and a half. Would you go over or under 30 starts? Under. I would go under, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Over, over.

[Bill Simmons]

So who would be your mystery third starter? Your guy? Cole Payton.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

He's.

[Todd McShay]

Eventually. He could be.

[Bill Simmons]

McShay's on a heater after the. Ty Simpson at 13. He's like Cole Payton.

[Todd McShay]

He's like my left hand.

[Steve Mensch]

Philip Rivers from. From North Dakota State.

[Todd McShay]

I sat there with you guys just, what, 48 hours ago, and you said that I was overconfident from shock last year, and now, you know, making mistakes. My judgment now. Now it's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's no stop.

[Todd McShay]

Out of control.

[Bill Simmons]

You're Bradley Cooper Limitless now. You're just. You're learning. You're learning Taiwanese at a restaurant.

[Todd McShay]

Ordering.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Kidneys.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. You're on fire.

[Todd McShay]

I would say over, but I. But I think. I think the market set perfectly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I really do. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, I think it's okay that this was a relatively boring draft. It doesn't mean our content wasn't great about the draft. But for the most part.

[Todd McShay]

No, I get it.

[Bill Simmons]

The most exciting things that happened Yesterday were the McVeigh press conference and the Steelers getting boned over on Lemon, I think were the two.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Vrabel just is like that whole thing that shattered a lot.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

But those are kind of the three biggest stories yesterday.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Other than how do you get 320,000 people to show up to watch people get picked.

[Steve Mensch]

It's such a weird thing.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think is the weirdest. I just can't imagine any scenario where I would go to that.

[Todd McShay]

Speaking of which.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Next year, where is it? 2027? D.C. white House lawn? That draft class. Don't you envision, like, Spotify? Yeah. I know that every time.

[Bill Simmons]

It's never good enough.

[Steve Mensch]

Never good enough.

[Todd McShay]

It's just something to think about for next year. It's in D.C. it's in D.C. we fly in, we set it up, have a big, big, you know, stage there. Conjunction with Netflix, Spotify, the Ringer, White

[Bill Simmons]

House lawn, Ty Simpson. Still be a Ram at that point.

[Todd McShay]

It was good playing for the Commanders now, but honestly, next year is what everyone's looking forward to.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it does feel like there's certain drafts where the college football season feels like it's just a setup for the draf. That's what next year feels like.

[Todd McShay]

We've got a. We've got an Ohio State wide receiver who's like the next Calvin Johnson. We've got a Notre Dame cornerback who's like the next Patrick certain. We've got a quarterback class that's going to rival like 83 and wow. In 2024.

[Steve Mensch]

Like, there's a Texas edge.

[Todd McShay]

Like make it a little tanking next year. I. Yes. I've seen Miami.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, Miami's already doing it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, Miami's roster, the jets too. I mean, Aaron Glenn's gonna get in the way of what the. I think the higher ups in that organization would like next year or.

[Bill Simmons]

He's perfect if he's watched him coach. Last year, I forgot to mention I really liked when the. I actually liked that the jets traded up for Cooper. I thought 30 was too low for him. I just really confident that he's going to be good.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, a lot of people thought they would take him at 16.

[Bill Simmons]

Little chip on the shoulder for him because he went late. He went after a bunch of guys. Like, I just. I like that. I think in that fit for him.

[Todd McShay]

And you have Kenyan Sadiq that they brought in as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't like that one as much for them. I like the guy, but they just spent the 42nd pick on a tight end.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, Mason Taylor last year.

[Todd McShay]

No, I understand that, but now I thought that was.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Mason Taylor, but.

[Todd McShay]

But I appreciate the fact that it's best player available and the fact that this league now is so much two, three tight end sets and so it gives them some versatility. I hear you.

[Steve Mensch]

I like the big two. I think it's good.

[Todd McShay]

And he's kind of a wide receiver, but he can. He can come in and block. But he's 4, 3. What? 4, 3, 6 speed. So.

[Steve Mensch]

But yeah, Mason Taylor too.

[Bill Simmons]

I think one thing, the more I stared at it, I don't think I liked what the Chiefs did. I love that player to trade up though. Like, basically you trade McDuffie. Right, right. And you don't want to pay him and you're trying to. So now you trade back up.

[Todd McShay]

It did feel like that to me, too.

[Bill Simmons]

So I'm just trying to think, like, holistically, big picture. You have McDuffie. Maybe they didn't like him as much.

[Steve Mensch]

They let everyone go with defensive back, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Six replaces him. But they traded McDuffie for assets, which then they traded some to move up to take this new guy, then 29. It just feels like a lot of, like, lateral movement. Whereas I wonder, like, if we look back five years from now, we're like, wow, the Chiefs had the sixth pick in that draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So much by salary cap and getting, you know, staying younger and less. Less money invested in those positions. But I.

[Bill Simmons]

But wouldn't you take in Sonny Styles there? Am I crazy?

[Steve Mensch]

I like to lay in there. I think. Yeah, I think he's a really good player, man. I. I said that people are going to look back when he was going to go eight or nine and be like, how do we not get that kid?

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so maybe.

[Todd McShay]

Maybe that's a perfect fit for what they want to do. I mean, that your comp was Chet McDuffie.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So I get it. But it did feel lateral.

[Bill Simmons]

Who did they jump over? You think the Saints were taking them at 8?

[Steve Mensch]

Could have.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, could have. That Commanders fits him perfectly. Commanders, I heard might.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, really?

[Todd McShay]

But I'm not sure. There's some late information that they might. So maybe they were just getting styles.

[Steve Mensch]

If they had.

[Todd McShay]

I think they were most afraid of New Orleans. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Have I told you my theory about. I wouldn't trade up if it was in a tier of guys like this draft probably had.

[Steve Mensch]

He's a tier guy.

[Bill Simmons]

He loves, what, 12 and it drops.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And if I'm the difference between nine and six, I'm still getting somebody who's around that. There's no way to know. These kids are 20, 21, 22. Why am I trading more assets to take somebody who's in these same tier as. I just wouldn't do it.

[Steve Mensch]

Not to fill in.

[Bill Simmons]

I wouldn't do it.

[Steve Mensch]

If you felt you were an edge away, you wouldn't trade up to get an edge. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's when things go sideways. When you start trying to find almost.

[Todd McShay]

I would want never trade up.

[Bill Simmons]

Me neither.

[Todd McShay]

A quarterback.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know, man.

[Todd McShay]

Quarterback. Yes. In a situation like this later in the first where it doesn't cost me a ton.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

With the Pats traded up, I was fine. Offensive tackle would be another. Or if there's an Edge, a corner, something specifically. But it would have to be a premium position and it would have to be later in the first. And I still would be sick to my stomach doing it because like the math tells you we're going to miss.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want more shots.

[Todd McShay]

Give me more people.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So if it's like Styles, Tyson Downs, the cornerback, they took Delaine. I just feel like all of those guys are probably going to be good and. But I missed out on a chance to maybe strike oil with the. With the pick I gave up.

[Todd McShay]

What's the biggest difference between this draft? Obviously the rounds and players and all that. But just the biggest thing is you study this draft and you're around it versus the NBA draft.

[Bill Simmons]

NBA. The drop off is massive.

[Todd McShay]

Is it?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

It's crazy, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Once you get out of the lottery, you really have.

[Todd McShay]

So how many players?

[Bill Simmons]

Usually you go from 16 to 40 and I think it's a crapshoot at that point.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And then the tiers are basically like 1 through 4 or 1 through 7, depending on the year. Then there's that second. But you know, these guys play one year in college. Like Jalen Johnson, who's been awesome at Atlanta. Left Duke, he didn't finish Duke. Duke, he didn't get along with Coach K, Falls out of the lottery to 17 and now he's an all NBA guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That doesn't seem to happen in the same way in football. For the most part, the talent's going to be the talent and you'll see somebody in that 15 to 30 range might rise, but it's usually like a receiver who got pushed or cornerback. But the impact guys, the awesome guys. Yeah, they're usually in the top 12 or 13. Right, right.

[Todd McShay]

And the age, I mean, we get three years of looking at a player coming out of high school, which helps.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, knew you have a 17 game college football season. I saw. I actually saw the Ohio State coach on one of the shows yesterday, Ryan Day, and he was. He's really passionate about how they have to fix how they schedule this and how crazy it is that they play for so long. But then the playoffs are like after this month long break and he's like, we just got to keep going and.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And condense it and we should never be playing in January. And I was like, he's right.

[Todd McShay]

I absolutely like proposal of like the bowl games in the beginning of the season. Like, oh, wow. Do some, you know, like.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know about that one.

[Todd McShay]

The kickoff.

[Bill Simmons]

Why not do it in mid December? That's like a great time to. You're before the NFL playoffs. Like, just get everything done. Jump right into Christmas.

[Todd McShay]

You're done. You're done with the conference championships. But the first weekend in December every year.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, but kids have to take finals and the academics first.

[Todd McShay]

Right. I mean, I think it's nuts that

[Bill Simmons]

their season is as long as the NFL. I can't believe this is how this turned out.

[Steve Mensch]

College football, like, even the conferences and these kids in Cal are flying to like Rutgers and then flying home and then flying like, it's like there's a lot of stuff they need to look at. Like the travel, the bowl games. You're losing kids in the portal before you're going to play in a bowl. No one wants to play in a bowl. Like, the bowl system is going to die.

[Bill Simmons]

So when I'm named sports are. Do I do college sports first or do I look at boxing?

[Todd McShay]

College. College sports.

[Bill Simmons]

College sports is my first priority.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, everyone I talk to in college, the high, high up people are

[Bill Simmons]

like, please save us.

[Todd McShay]

It's going to take the government. Like, it's. We don't have. And there's no governing. What could go wrong there? Yeah, right, right. But. But it's so far out of control that they're like, they're eagerly, like they're seeking out help from, from the government. Like, that's not something you're. You want to hear, you know.

[Steve Mensch]

So you want a linebacker tonight?

[Todd McShay]

Yes. I'm just looking.

[Bill Simmons]

I really like C.J. allen.

[Steve Mensch]

I do, too.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I did some recon on him. Rare for me.

[Todd McShay]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

I just like him. I just. We need a guy like that. We need like a tough, athletic linebacker who can stay on the field multiple downs and cover people in traffic and also like, move the line. And there's just not a lot of those guys in this draft. That's the other thing. And as you said in the newsletter today, all the tight end, they need a tight end, too. But all of them are going to be clustered at the end of the third round.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you can wait, hold on. The tight end, that's a day three. I'd like to see an edge for New England or an interior, some defensive lineman, too.

[Bill Simmons]

You can always talk me into a pick on the line.

[Steve Mensch]

I would love a defensive tackle. Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And there's a bunch of them. Like, I could see the Lee Hunter, like a Christian Miller from Georgia. Yeah, yeah. So there's. There's some guys.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm receiver. You don't receiver?

[Todd McShay]

No. Oh.

[Steve Mensch]

Because AJ Brown's coming.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I keep forgetting.

[Steve Mensch]

AJ Brown's coming.

[Bill Simmons]

They spent a second round pick on Kyle Williams and I actually thought he had some potential. He was weirdly not on the same page with Drake ever. They always seem like they. Maybe they just need another off season together. But I felt like he was open, you know, like. And it just, it was always like something weird happening with him.

[Todd McShay]

That's, that's tough. They could use year two in that system. Should be a lot better than, than as a rookie, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So dig.

[Bill Simmons]

Does Diggs play next year anywhere?

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know. Like. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that got too weird off the end for Vrabo.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, there's. There's some stuff that needs to kind of be reeled in in Foxborough.

[Bill Simmons]

Frable's like, yeah, they got you from Utah. Let's take him.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a stable, stable tackle.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. Stamp from Winningham. You know, like. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I wonder if teams think that way because the Chiefs obviously don't. They just.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, the Chiefs will.

[Bill Simmons]

The Chiefs will roll the dice with anybody.

[Todd McShay]

They don't care.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I mean they, they actually, they went with some. I'm just looking at it now. They. Delane's a great, you know, high character, healthy, durable, 44 starts. Peter Woods. It's not a defensive problem. Not a problem. Good. You know, Clemson doing the right things. It's not, it's not a Chiefs draft.

[Bill Simmons]

Did we have a center get taken yet? We haven't, no.

[Todd McShay]

No. Maybe late second.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one of my favorite picks is the center. Yeah. The high end center I always feel like is an underrated NFL draft guy.

[Todd McShay]

Guess where. Because you shouldn't have knowledge on this. Guess where the first center that's probably. That's most likely to come off the

[Bill Simmons]

board is from Massachusetts.

[Todd McShay]

No. What school?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, what school?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Patriot League.

[Todd McShay]

No. Where? No. Iowa. Don't you just feel like the. The first interior. First center should be from Iowa.

[Bill Simmons]

Big hands.

[Steve Mensch]

His short arms, Huge smaller guy, but like a wrestler.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Like two star coming out of high school. But yeah. Yeah, they just pretty. Yeah. Recruiting. They just didn't recruit that area. Corn.

[Bill Simmons]

The show's dad, he's kind of built like a blacksmith.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Big guy, huge hand. Shaking hands with everybody.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So Logan Jones should be the first center.

[Steve Mensch]

It's a good, not great center.

[Todd McShay]

Class. Yeah, it's not.

[Steve Mensch]

There's some guys who are trying to like transition, which is kind of interesting. Some tackles are like, oh, I'm just gonna play center now. It's like.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's when, you know, it's center class.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

We'll see how that goes.

[Bill Simmons]

When does the draft start?

[Todd McShay]

20 minutes. 20 minutes. What'd you think of the pace last night? I want to get that.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was amazing. I. I really thought it was incredible.

[Todd McShay]

For viewing. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I was watching two basketball games and the Bruins Sabres game as well.

[Todd McShay]

And Netflix.

[Bill Simmons]

And Netflix popping in with you as well.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, there was a stretch where I just did not see a lot of the show for about an hour. There was a lot of sports happening.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Your world.

[Todd McShay]

This is kind of a wild.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I was doing the podcast at 9 o' clock last night, just trying to watch everything and make sure I had things to say. And then. Then it calmed down. But I thought the pace was unbelievable.

[Steve Mensch]

I felt better about the first round before you came in here. You're like, eh, meh.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. It felt. I mean, we're gonna love every draft and I understand that part.

[Steve Mensch]

We're in our bubble, but this is cool.

[Todd McShay]

But I didn't. Once we adjusted to the pace, like, I kind of like it, but I

[Bill Simmons]

think it was good.

[Todd McShay]

The response didn't seem overly. But everyone's miserable, so everyone's gonna say,

[Bill Simmons]

oh, were people mad at the pace?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, like, I guess one of the Networks is like 10 minutes behind and no one got to. There's no analysis and. But honestly, like, I don't. I've done it when it was 15 minutes and it's like, all right, we got it. You know, so down there, when I did the.

[Bill Simmons]

I did the NBA draft for two years for espn and it went so fast. Like, we were. The first time I did it, we were in a commercial when Cody Zeller got taken fourth.

[Todd McShay]

Huh.

[Bill Simmons]

And we came back and it was already the fifth pick. And we had just kind of been like, oh, by the way, Cody Zeller got taken. It was crazy. I was like, we didn't have enough time. Like, we didn't have enough time to talk about anything.

[Todd McShay]

How long are those?

[Bill Simmons]

I was. It felt like. I want to say it was five minutes.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's. That's how tonight gets third round is. Is. It goes fast, but it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But you know, I saw this thing on social media about Goodell's first draft, which I think was 07. It was six hours and seven minutes.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

I was saying that yesterday.

[Steve Mensch]

Who wants to stay up that late to watch that?

[Bill Simmons]

I think I blocked that out of my mind.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Like six hours, seven minutes.

[Todd McShay]

It starts at eight.

[Steve Mensch]

When did we transition to that, though? Remember, it was Saturday and Sunday. It was first three rounds.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, it was around.

[Steve Mensch]

And then four through seven on the

[Todd McShay]

second around, like, 2010, I think.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm old enough to remember discovering the draft on espn whenever. When it was just. It was like a room this size and Roselle.

[Steve Mensch]

It was like people were smoking.

[Bill Simmons]

A cocktail party almost. Roselle's just coming up being like, the Ravens are gonna take.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, the Colts.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

The Colts.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But. But I remember the first one I really watched was the 83 one without all the quarterbacks.

[Todd McShay]

Right. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

And the.

[Bill Simmons]

Pat said Pat's ended up with Tony.

[Todd McShay]

Tony Eason. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But it was Ken o'. Brien. It was.

[Todd McShay]

Tony Neeson was falling with Eason. I kept waiting. Come on. The Eastern guy.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was like, a really exciting draft. And Elway didn't necessarily want to go to Baltimore, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But then Marino was falling, and they're kind of talking about it, and it was just, like, amazing. I was just. I was like, 14. I was like, this is the most rivet. I can't believe.

[Steve Mensch]

The drama was great.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. It was just awesome.

[Todd McShay]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, we're sitting here today, obviously, we fell in love with it, too. There's nothing like it, man. Like, think about the last 10 days.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And all the. The misinformation and the rumors and the lying to. And the. You can't beat this drama, you know? No.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And then you get. And then you're done last night, and it's like texting with GMs and different. And, like, who's moving up and, like, you know, in this little bubble we're in, like, people are worked up inside the league about, you know, are you hearing. Is anyone gonna move up? Who's going there? So it's. It's exciting. It's exciting.

[Bill Simmons]

And yet next year, the draft's going to be really awesome. You're like, man, last year's draft sucked.

[Steve Mensch]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

This is. We have 47 storylines this year.

[Todd McShay]

I know it's going to be. We don't even.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's the number one pick next year now, like, who would be the favorite?

[Steve Mensch]

Archie. Arch Manning.

[Todd McShay]

Arch Manning.

[Steve Mensch]

Not Archie.

[Bill Simmons]

Are there odds on this yet?

[Todd McShay]

I'm sure it's got to be. I would guess it would be Arch just over Dante Moore.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, your guy. That's another one.

[Todd McShay]

Oregon. Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

You like both of those guys?

[Todd McShay]

I like. I like both of them a lot. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Little Sophie's Choice action when it gets there. You're gonna have to pick one.

[Todd McShay]

I'm gonna have to. That's gonna be tough. I haven't even thought about that.

[Steve Mensch]

There's two other guys.

[Todd McShay]

Like I got a way too early mock draft coming out this week. I know there could be the holding. That's what I didn't think about this. I've been.

[Bill Simmons]

He was pretty all in on Dante.

[Todd McShay]

What are you trying to.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean, you love that guy

[Todd McShay]

going to Manning passing in July, so

[Bill Simmons]

a lot of stock for him already.

[Steve Mensch]

Who's your favorite out of those man? I recognize it's going to be Archer Dante, but my sleeper is Lenora Sellers from South Carolina. They're so bad. South Carolina is so bad that when you watch the tape, I mean, he's just trying to do so much and it's leading to bad habits and all these things. But the Missouri game two years ago, he just put the team on his back, won a game.

[Todd McShay]

And I was like this kid Superman. You called him the other thing.

[Bill Simmons]

It's almost like the political election where you. You can't know who the candidates are yet because there's always somebody that comes out of nowhere.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Like this year was Mendoza. There's always some quarterback. We have no idea who it's going to be.

[Todd McShay]

It was Jaden Daniels, right? He was supposed to be. You know, he's a third rounder and then he had that year.

[Steve Mensch]

Have you ever heard the name Brendan Sorsby? Do you know who that is? No. He's a guy. He was at Cincinnati, now he's at Texas Tech. Sam Levitt from Arizona State.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, Levitt's going to play for Lane at lsu and he was already good.

[Steve Mensch]

So, you know, quarterbacks going to play at Miami now. And those quarterbacks seem to like make some noise now.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't forget about my guy Chestnut with whoever his quarterbacks.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I know.

[Bill Simmons]

He'll turn that guy into a third round.

[Todd McShay]

Holy cross.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. I don't know. I'm not the coach.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yes, yes.

[Steve Mensch]

Who's the quarterback they got.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you don't understand, man.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, I know.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

UCLA is the official football team of the ringer. I did. I didn't.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think I told.

[Bill Simmons]

Haven't people broken the news?

[Steve Mensch]

Drinking the Kool Aid with Chesney, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

It's my guy.

[Todd McShay]

He's. He. It's not cool.

[Bill Simmons]

He went, no, this is more than Kool Aid. It's. It's like spiked with acid from the desert.

[Steve Mensch]

Do you think he's like a signetti guy. You think he could be the guy that makes the jump from.

[Bill Simmons]

He's incredible. He completely transformed Holy Cross. We were like, he did.

[Todd McShay]

He did. Like. I know of other programs that, like, were very high on him and were considering him.

[Bill Simmons]

No, he's. He's a legit, real guy special. And he's had enough time with the. With the off season to at least, like, put his stuff in. His kind of. His personality stuff.

[Steve Mensch]

He's kind of not young, but he's a younger guy. Is he like, early 40s?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. What is 40s?

[Bill Simmons]

Mrs. 48. He's the best thing about.

[Todd McShay]

He's great for 48. I've heard the speeches.

[Steve Mensch]

I went on it, like, I love the. I love what he's selling. Like, I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

But I spent some time with him, like, six weeks ago.

[Todd McShay]

He's.

[Bill Simmons]

His big thing is competitiveness.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Where he. Even in the off season, guys are constantly competing. They're competing like you're. He puts people in different groups, and it's like, which group showed up on time the most? Which group did the best in the weightlifting this week? Which group did. When we did our little throwing session. And it's just constantly guys, like, battling each other.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he's like. Because when the season starts, we're fighting. So I want. I want them fighting 365 days.

[Todd McShay]

Hunger Games.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's got to be.

[Bill Simmons]

He's, like, about accountability and competitiveness.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But I. I turned them around.

[Todd McShay]

Pete Carroll did.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know. Yeah. Just this week.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, that quarterback, great motivator. I'm guessing a lot of kids still want to go to ucla. I mean, why wouldn't you?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I mean, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a better school.

[Steve Mensch]

It's going to take a minute. Right, though? Oh, you're not saying.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I really think it's not. I'm way more optimistic than most. I know, but in the transfer portal, you're.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you're.

[Bill Simmons]

You're basically reset, budding, reset, buttoning, everything you have overnight, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Sounds like Signetti to me. Like, you guys think he could be, like, the next.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's really special. I'm all in on him. I don't know if it can be one year or two. I don't understand the dynamics of turning around a program in a year, but

[Steve Mensch]

I gotta believe people from the ucla, like, they have alumni that are willing to spend money on this. We're tired of watching.

[Bill Simmons]

UCLA has deep pockets.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Deep Deep, deep pockets.

[Todd McShay]

And help out a little bit.

[Steve Mensch]

Chip in.

[Bill Simmons]

No. And I. And there's two things with the ucla. One in deep pockets. The other is they really hate usc.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, that's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, real abject hatred. It's the underrated rivalry in any college sport. And I didn't.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't know anything about East Coast. You kind of feel like, oh, that's cute.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah, right. They really hate each other.

[Todd McShay]

It's real, huh?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's real. There's competitiveness with, like, the LA families. Like, just go, what college your kids going to?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're either on one side or the other. You can't be both.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty interesting.

[Todd McShay]

We've got, like, really famous people, like, paying to get their kids into one. Well, yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like. It's Basically Duke, NC with terrible PR would be how I described it. Like, nobody knows. It's a. It's a blood feud, but it really is.

[Todd McShay]

I'd love to see it. Yeah. There's nothing better than coming out here in November. And, like, that game is awesome. Well.

[Bill Simmons]

And they have two charismatic coaches that are actually not. You know, part of the problem with UCLA was either they were hiring former players who used to play there, like Foster, who's not a coach, or these kind of guys who peaked 10 years ago who were big names like Chip Kelly.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

But they never were actually looking for somebody who was going to try to build a program and not use it as a stepping stone to go somewhere else like that day. LA is great. It's great to live here. He's got a family and, like, he'll be here.

[Todd McShay]

That's great.

[Bill Simmons]

And he'll try to turn it around.

[Steve Mensch]

New Heisel's kid was like the biggest story for UCLA last year when he came in and they won a couple games or a game. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Who'd they upset last year? Penn State.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, Penn State.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

That train. That freight train.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's going to be fun. I'm really pumped for this. I'm all in on ucla, so I'm going to be the most invested in this college football season.

[Todd McShay]

Good.

[Bill Simmons]

Between the quarterbacks, do you go to all the games? I've never. I've never been to UCLA game.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I will go this year.

[Todd McShay]

He's a Holy Cross guy.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like this is the closest I'll ever have to having a college football team because it'll never happen. Holy Cross.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But we did go undefeated in 1991.

[Todd McShay]

I remember I almost went there. Who was the Heisman finalist?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that was 88.

[Todd McShay]

Gordy Lockbow. Gordy Lockbone.

[Bill Simmons]

87. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Gordy Lockbone. That's a Holy Cross name going both ways.

[Bill Simmons]

Gordy.

[Todd McShay]

I remember that. I remember that. It was around the same time as Doug Flutie, and I had a misconception that, like, maybe sports were okay. College football was okay in Massachusetts, you know. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The college sports should be better in Massachusetts, especially college basketball, because we do have. When you think about. It's Massachusetts, but also Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut.

[Todd McShay]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

You're basically getting the entire East Coast. And if you just had. If you had a Gonzaga on the east coast, these kids would all want.

[Todd McShay]

Put a fence around New England, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

What's his name? The best one. Why can't Boston College do this? I don't understand how they do the number one overall pick. The. What's the. His name?

[Bill Simmons]

Danza. Left. AJ Debance. I went to Utah.

[Todd McShay]

No. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's going to be the number one pick in the NBA draft in June? Left Massachusetts to go to Utah.

[Steve Mensch]

BYU or Utah?

[Bill Simmons]

He went to byu.

[Todd McShay]

Byu.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But moved there to go to boarding school in Utah and then to byu.

[Todd McShay]

And the guy who was in the NBA. Who was who? Come on. They played at Duke, right? Yeah, Duke. He's from Maine, right? Oh, Cooper flag.

[Bill Simmons]

Cooper flag.

[Steve Mensch]

Cooper Flagg.

[Todd McShay]

Thank you. Sorry, my brain's on this.

[Steve Mensch]

No, no.

[Todd McShay]

Cooper Flagg's from Maine.

[Bill Simmons]

Cooper Flag's gonna be on the Celtics in 2031.

[Todd McShay]

How so?

[Bill Simmons]

Die hard Celtic fan.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he is.

[Steve Mensch]

How they gonna get Cooper flag?

[Bill Simmons]

He's gonna sign as a free agent because it's what his heart wants.

[Todd McShay]

I love this.

[Bill Simmons]

Stay in Dallas.

[Todd McShay]

I did not have us pegged for a Cooper flag.

[Steve Mensch]

Cooper flag signs with the Celtics like,

[Todd McShay]

eight minutes before the image of the draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Five years.

[Bill Simmons]

I might stay for a couple picks, then I have to leave because the Sixers and Celtics are playing.

[Todd McShay]

Let's do it.

[Steve Mensch]

What's that series ever now? Is it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's 1 1. We'll win tonight, I think. But I feel like it's karma, you know, it's. The NBA is stupid. Like, somebody just makes 20 threes in a game and you.

[Steve Mensch]

C.J. mcCullough shows up. Like, first threes.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, you just never know with the NBA. Football is way more. The right team usually wins unless it's a goofy game with turnovers and.

[Todd McShay]

But should it be different?

[Steve Mensch]

Like a seven Game series or the cream should rise at the top.

[Bill Simmons]

And it usually is. What happens?

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Just game to game. You never know. You know, you just don't know. Yeah, like Denver last night. The. They just leave Joker open, right? You can't make a three. They have six points in the first quarter. You know, immediately it's over. Cause he missed four threes and you know, whereas football. I don't know. They usually.

[Todd McShay]

There's not a lot of slumps in football.

[Bill Simmons]

There's not slumps. There's no seven game series either. So anybody can beat anybody. But for the most part, you kind of know who the best six teams are.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

All right. We got a draft to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's do it. Go. You do. I'm just here.

[Steve Mensch]

Who's the.

[Todd McShay]

So get into it. What's that? Let's put throw up. The best available. Here we go.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, this is. What an honor.

[Todd McShay]

Denzel Boston, our only player. We talked about this earlier. Only player in the top 28 that didn't wind up going in the first. Colton Hood, cornerback from Tennessee, Kaden McDonald. I've got him pegged as a New York Giant man.

[Steve Mensch]

They hope so.

[Todd McShay]

You know, they could. Obviously with Dexter Lawrence leaving town, they're picking just a. What is it, 35 overall or 37?

[Steve Mensch]

37. 37 overall.

[Todd McShay]

So that's the fifth pick of this round. Will he last to that spot is the big question. TJ Parker is your guy. We both like it. But you. Yeah, you your guy. Clemson defensive end, long, powerful, didn't have the year that we expected last year. Tape's better, but. But 2024 was. Was a really good season. Jamod McCoy. Jermod McCoy is the most talented. If you're just talking the traits you look for at the cornerback position coming out of Tennessee. Didn't play in 2025.

[Bill Simmons]

The knee, those guys.

[Todd McShay]

No, he didn't sit out. He had it. He tore his acl and apparently they're worried about it being degenerative is the word you hear for the NFL team. So that's why a top 10, top 15 talent is still sitting here in the second round. Expect him to come off the board with some other cornerbacks that we talked about, like d' Angelo Pons from. From. From Indiana. Colton Hood. We just mentioned a little bit earlier the other edge rusher that you see there is Zion Young from Missouri. But I. It won't shock. Cassius Howell is a wild card on tape. He's a top 15 pick. Explosive. The ability to. He can drop and cover at Times he plays absolutely crazed. The problem is he's got even shorter arms than Ruben Bane. He's undersized in general. There's some. Some other stuff to sort through and so like it won't shock me if he's picked 33 when we kick things off for San Francisco, but it also won't shock me if we get to pick 40. And he's still lingering around. So he's a. Between he and McCoy, they're the two big wild cards to watch for early in this, this second round of the draft. Then trade in Stukes we've talked about has caught a lot of steam early on recently. He's a nickel safety kind of. Everyone was looking for that. That chess piece on defense.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we see the list again?

[Todd McShay]

Yep. Trade in Stukes is on that list. I think he was the eighth player on that list. And then Jacob Rodriguez, the linebacker from Texas Tech, who's the peanut, punch, turn the ball over, make big plays and big moments guy. He's one of three inside linebackers including Bill Simmons favorite CJ Allen and also Jake Jackson Galde from Cincinnati. So we're going to see some inside linebackers, we're going to see some corners, see some edges early on and then we'll get back to kind of after Denzel Boston. We'll get back to some of the wide receivers in the middle of the round, which will include the two guys that I think are gaining steam. And I talked about with the Rams, Dejon Stripling from Ole Miss and Jeremy Bernard from. From Alabama.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I like him. Just blink test on what name. Seems like they're going to be the best player just by looking at the names only.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Colton Hood is really strong.

[Todd McShay]

It is.

[Bill Simmons]

I could see that. Like Colton Hood once again made the all pro team. Really relic in a sports movie. Colton Hood is like a strong name also.

[Todd McShay]

Could be a quarterback. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Colton's just like, I feel like that's going to be successful.

[Steve Mensch]

He's got a great celly too.

[Bill Simmons]

I also was part of that.

[Steve Mensch]

He does the Hood when he breaks up a pass.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Cyan Young too. Is a strong name.

[Steve Mensch]

It's great.

[Todd McShay]

Your name Cassius Owl.

[Bill Simmons]

They can't keep Zion Young out of the back. I didn't like the spelling of Cassius. That word. That was a red flag for me in my head. Like seeing it on the TV during a second round playoff game.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Whether he was Cassius Howells wreaking havoc, I don't know. I couldn't see it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I don't like the H every time, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Cassius.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but you want to see. You want to see Colton Hood? You want to see some.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, let's see some Colton Hood.

[Todd McShay]

This is from the Senior Bowl. We had Jake and Nick down there taking video of them.

[Steve Mensch]

Looks like a first rounder to me.

[Todd McShay]

Watch. Oh. Oh, the quarterback. Oh, Press man. Guy physical. This is where he struggled. Ball in the air. But he does a nice job on that play. He's.

[Steve Mensch]

There's the hood.

[Todd McShay]

There's the Selly. There's a Selly.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that's. That should move him up seven spots.

[Todd McShay]

The Selly. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's a really strong one. Looks pretty good.

[Todd McShay]

He got better as a weak one. On. He did it again.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That's the thing.

[Todd McShay]

Trademark.

[Bill Simmons]

It's great.

[Todd McShay]

What if he's a Patriot?

[Bill Simmons]

We won't get him in 61. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Right. I'm just joking. But he's a guy you pull for.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there a possible contender that he could go to in the 30s? Probably not

[Steve Mensch]

Buffalo.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah. Some people traded back.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Absolutely.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

That's scary.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that would suck. That would upset me.

[Steve Mensch]

Houston.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus.

[Steve Mensch]

They could take whoever they want, man. I mean, they could just. They can do whatever they want.

[Bill Simmons]

Quarterback.

[Steve Mensch]

They. They. What do you think about that? Think they should take a quarterback at some point?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. If I was a Houston fan.

[Todd McShay]

What's going on?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not sure I would know what to think or do about the quarterback situation. At least Drake may seem like he was hurt. C.J. was not.

[Todd McShay]

Well, here's the other.

[Bill Simmons]

He was all over the map the whole season.

[Steve Mensch]

You have this incredible roster.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Like, it's not going to stay like that, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Steve Mensch]

You better figure out if he's the guy or not. Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Especially if that Will Anderson contract. They're paying a guy 50 million a year, basically.

[Todd McShay]

I know, like, they're going to run

[Bill Simmons]

out of room to pay people after a while.

[Todd McShay]

That's why I think I would. Yeah. Something's up with C.J. stroud and there's been, like, speculation or there was one report. Like, we're going to find out. There's going to be something there. But then you talk to people in the league and they're like, no, it's just like, you know, struggling with. The confidence is up and down, but the guy that we saw as a rookie is not the guy that we saw last year.

[Bill Simmons]

The confidence swagger is not there.

[Todd McShay]

How do you fix that, man? Because honestly, like, Nick Casserio, the gm, has built one like you just said one of the best rosters in the, like, top three rosters in the league.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, they.

[Todd McShay]

Drafting a quarterback is not like you're not. First of all, you're not getting one this year. So I guess next year becomes the, you know, break glass in case of emergency.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

He's going in his fifth year right now.

[Bill Simmons]

This is four.

[Todd McShay]

Four. So he's coming into the year where you have to make the decision. That's what it is.

[Steve Mensch]

There's two teams.

[Bill Simmons]

There's two teams that probably, well, maybe even three that look back at last year and think they should have made the super bowl like Denver could. The Bonicks got hurt. San Diego is like if we didn't have 1700 injuries, but the one with the best case is probably Houston. It's like, how did we not beat the Patriots? Our defense dominated them and our quarterback didn't show up. And we would have beaten everybody else when we made the Super Bowl.

[Steve Mensch]

But it was the. I mean, the weather in those games.

[Todd McShay]

So it's official.

[Steve Mensch]

Big role.

[Todd McShay]

It's official. Day two of the 2026 NFL Draft has begun. And currently we've got The San Francisco 49ers sitting on the clock at 33 overall. We've got. Pittsburgh is still losing its mind over this draft and the crowds are amazing. We're thrilled to be here with you on Netflix. Out from the beautiful brand new studios. Bill Simmons scouted on a long power walk one day and honestly, what a difference. This place is amazing and we're thrilled to be doing this year. And we're like, what an honor. Netflix.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Two nights of the draft and we had a blast last night, so we're going to carry it through.

[Bill Simmons]

You're on Netflix. Competing against. Nobody dumps my daughter. I don't know if you saw that movie.

[Todd McShay]

No. Yeah, I like, he dumped her daughter

[Bill Simmons]

and it just didn't work out well for him.

[Todd McShay]

I like our chances tonight not moving forward. So we just walked through the best available. We got San Francisco on the clock. Let's remind everyone it's eight minutes. Last night felt like a whirlwind. Tonight it's seven in the second round, five minutes between picks in the third round. So we have 68 picks. Yeah. Seven minutes. Shave a minute. 68 picks to get to 32 in round two and. And 36 in round three. How about, how about that math on the fly? Here we look at San Francisco, San Francisco trade. Those. Those were the original picks. They came into the draft with San Francisco back. Traded back.

[Steve Mensch]

Right yeah.

[Todd McShay]

To 33.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And they're looking now if we. If we're looking at their needs. Offensive tackle certainly is one of them. And by the way, the reason they trade back is because I believe the guy they wanted was Lomo.

[Steve Mensch]

Right, right. And they're not going to get him. So let's get out.

[Bill Simmons]

The Pats finally jump somebody and got a guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Never used to do that. We always go backwards.

[Steve Mensch]

Ellie Wolf's kind of been cooking.

[Todd McShay]

I believe in Elliot turns out.

[Steve Mensch]

But I mean, I thought last year he killed it.

[Bill Simmons]

Possible suspect for the photos for the 21 fan. What I am.

[Steve Mensch]

We probably shouldn't talk about.

[Todd McShay]

That's just a nice.

[Steve Mensch]

Fascinated by whoever's behind it. And I have. I have theories.

[Todd McShay]

Kind of the nice part about having you around right now is I can make those jokes. You can make those jokes. I can't make any of those jokes. But you're living under a rock.

[Bill Simmons]

Tennessee, his sleeper favorite.

[Todd McShay]

That's his telling you. That's my theory. That's his theory.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. If this was law and order, they'd be heading down in Tennessee.

[Todd McShay]

They'll be the first suspect to talk to.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. We'd talk. We'd be talking.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Todd McShay]

So San Francisco, but let's not forget this is an organization. Mike Evans brought in the off season. Christian Kirk brought in the off season.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

George Kittle is coming off that brutal injury. What are we going to get from him at the tight end position and

[Bill Simmons]

chugging beers at Wrestlemania? I don't know if you saw that.

[Todd McShay]

I did. Yeah. I did multiple.

[Steve Mensch]

I think that might be a good sign. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

If he's feeling good enough to chug some beers.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. But the needs that we have. Left tackle, edge safety. The problem. The reason New England trades up. As we talked about seven tackles, there's nobody now until really like late second or third. So it's not going to be offensive tackle here. We just talk about the edge. Rushers safety is an intriguing spot. I could trade in stukes or Emmanuel McNeil Warren from Toledo. So I would say of the. We talked about. TJ Parker is a. Is a strong possibility from Clemson. Cassius Howell you have to keep an eye on because as I said, he's a wild card. And then I would say Emmanuel McNeil Warren is three guys. And if they don't go here, those guys are going to come off the board pretty soon. Yeah, Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I like the edge. I think they need to get their pass. Force was terrible last year and they had guys who were Hurt. Mikel Williams had an acl. Bosa had an acl. So you're hoping those guys come back healthy. But I would go for edge here.

[Bill Simmons]

They should draft a trainer.

[Steve Mensch]

Where do you get into all the consistency? More medical help.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or like an exorcist.

[Steve Mensch]

Or move the practice field.

[Bill Simmons]

An electromagnetic exorcist. Is it too early?

[Todd McShay]

I'm telling you, the Chargers have the same thing. But I don't know why we just focus on San Fran.

[Bill Simmons]

But, yes, it's not. There's not an electromagnetic factory next to the practice field.

[Todd McShay]

Do you actually believe that?

[Bill Simmons]

I do. I think something's funky with it.

[Steve Mensch]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I think it's weird. I think it's weird.

[Steve Mensch]

I love that you believe it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Steve Mensch]

It's probably because Shanahan runs practices like a 19. Like Bear Bryant. But question.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you want to have your house next to this thing?

[Todd McShay]

No. No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

There you go.

[Steve Mensch]

You know what?

[Todd McShay]

No. I've heard cancer. Everyone's. Julia Roberts, the lawsuits. And she was the lawyer.

[Steve Mensch]

Brockovich.

[Todd McShay]

Aaron Brockovich. Thank you. I was going Pelican Brief, but that's. My mind's not in the right place today. Yeah. It would be an Aaron Brockovich. Like, huge warning. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, if it was Aaron with the double A as a man, like a second round pick. They're looking at Aaron Brockovich. Like, that sounds like a full. That sounds like a fullback or a guard back taken full back.

[Todd McShay]

Or a best guard in the draft. I kind of like this. It's certainly more entertaining than it was last night.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just here to mix it up.

[Todd McShay]

I'm intrigued because this is a team. Right. This is an organization that clearly is trying to win. Now, you know, you don't bring in Mike Evans in his last year or two. You don't bring in Christian Kirk. I still think that they could draft a wide receiver, but a little bit later. But they. They clearly need. But they. Now you got Nick Bosa. Can he stay healthy?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they have. They have a whole team of. If he can stay healthy. It's like their mantra. You have McCaffrey, Mike Evans and Bosa.

[Todd McShay]

But. But like Fred Warner's on. On at the end. Nick Bose is at the end. Mike Evans is at the end. The point I'm making here is like this player that they draft better make a massive impact to play next year. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or this year.

[Todd McShay]

This year. Immediately. So this isn't about a develop. So that, like the Caleb Lomu thing, it makes sense. But it was hard for me to kind of wrap my head around why are we making all these moves and looking at this roster thinking, let's get a guy for 20, 27, you know, and so. So with that off the table, an impact edge and impact safety. But. But they are counting on a lot of old guys and. And how much does it signal Mikel Williams. We drafted an edge last year in the first round.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, but they had the acl.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, I understand that, but. But yeah, I guess with Nick Bosa, you draft an edge now and you're planning for the future while also having a rotation. I get all that. Yeah. It's kind of frustrating that you have to draft back to back years and edge rusher, but we see it happen a lot because of the importance of the position.

[Bill Simmons]

I still don't know how they won 12 games last year or whatever their record was. Well, he made no sense as it was happening.

[Todd McShay]

He's one of the best coaches in the league, but they just lost.

[Bill Simmons]

So they first of all had already lost people and then they lost more people.

[Todd McShay]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

I just.

[Todd McShay]

I.

[Bill Simmons]

It was the. I thought the weirdest thing that happened last year, out of all the records

[Todd McShay]

or anything, it was one of the best coaching jobs in the league.

[Bill Simmons]

It was pretty great.

[Steve Mensch]

And you got to play the Rams and Seattle like it's. That's a. That's a tough job, man. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

The Rams in Seattle are in your division. Yeah. That thing's brutal.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

How about Arizona? They don't even get which part? It sucks waking up this morning when you. I'm not saying they were all in on Ty Simpson and there's next year's draft, but the league knew that you were going to move up and thought you could do a New York Giants thing and bring in Ty Simpson. And now you. You don't have the guy. And now you're looking at Jacoby Brissette.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good moments.

[Todd McShay]

Last year he did.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm being sarcastic.

[Todd McShay]

He did four of them.

[Bill Simmons]

He was okay. I mean, compared to Kyler, he was okay.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he was. It actually was. It was steadier.

[Steve Mensch]

How bad things. How bad are things in Minnesota that you bring in Kyler?

[Todd McShay]

I think he. That Koc will. He'll do wonders for him.

[Steve Mensch]

I love McCarthy.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't. I don't see it.

[Steve Mensch]

See Kyler.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't see it.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not winning playoff rounds with him. I don't see it. Yeah, he can't throw over the middle. He. I think you can pressure Him, I think he panics. I don't think he'd stay healthy. There's seven things I don't like.

[Steve Mensch]

But you took a quarterback in the first round two years ago, and, I mean, now you're already punting on that. I mean, it's. It's interesting. I mean, they're a competitive team because he's a good coach.

[Todd McShay]

But the interesting part is that the quarterbacks go there, or San Francisco, sometimes the Rams, to get right and then kind of move on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So why not study what those teams are doing and then try to figure out your version of it? Like, if I was. If I ran an NFL team, I would just study the teams that were specifically good at certain things and just spend days, weeks, trying to figure out what are they doing that we're not doing? Why are they so good at quarterbacks?

[Todd McShay]

Because there's only a handful of guys in the league that actually know how to do it. And it's growing. We've seen, like, from. From that Shanahan tree. It's the. It's Koc. It's McVeigh, obviously, it's the LaFleurs. Now it's, you know, Bobby Slow went down to Miami, so.

[Bill Simmons]

But how much secret sauce could there be? Like, why do these guys have these secrets that they just. These guys know how to connect where other people don't. I can't imagine what it is.

[Todd McShay]

It's. Schematically.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not doubting it. No, no, it's. I'd love to know what it is.

[Todd McShay]

Well, it's factual. There's no real doubting it. It's. It's. They do it over and over and over again, but it gets. It gets muddied when you have. When you have a. But you have one of these guys that actually knows what he's doing in Kevin o', Connell, and he has the guy. And then Sam goes and leaves and goes and wins the Super Bowl.

[Bill Simmons]

But why didn't he work with J.J. mcCarthy?

[Todd McShay]

That's why it gets money. It's not perfect for everyone. It's not like the spurs had a.

[Bill Simmons]

The San Antonio spurs had a great shooting coach who fixed, like, Kawhi's shot and all these different shots. And at some point it was like, yeah, they'll take an athlete if the shot isn't great, this guy will fix it. And he'd fix it every time. And my joke was always, why doesn't somebody else pay this guy, like, $20 million a year? Seems like the best, better advantage you could have 100%. I'm shorting the Niners next year.

[Todd McShay]

Huh?

[Bill Simmons]

12 and 5. No way. Although third place schedule. The pick's been in for like five minutes.

[Todd McShay]

Ooh, the pick is in. We're gonna have this in a moment. And the pick is in. We talked about edge, rusher. We talked about a lot of different players.

[Bill Simmons]

Now we have to watch somebody walk 20, 25 yards.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Roger doesn't do a day today. Right? He's all done for the weekend is.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's that?

[Todd McShay]

We talked about youth at wide receiver, Edge and safety.

[Bill Simmons]

He's giving him monologue.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, everyone does. This is the day. I heard McAfee is going twice today for the Colts. That'll be. That'll take longer than the five minutes itself per pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Big month for him.

[Todd McShay]

Big month. Every month feels like a big month.

[Bill Simmons]

He was in the WrestleMania match.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, there it is.

[Todd McShay]

Dejan Stribling from Ole Miss was not on your list. Not on the top 10. We knew. I mean, one of the hottest names. I told you. And that's. He's been moving up. That's one of the. That's one of the Rams guys. He is. He's run after. He's perfect for this system. Right. Dejan Stribling. When you look at him, he is a big, physical receiver who. I know the Rams were very interested in him, all of these West Coast Shanahan style teams, because what does he do? Physicality, catch point strength, run after catch, and he'll block his tail off. I mean, those are the main things. And so you're looking at this situation now with Mike Evans. How much are you going to actually get out of him? Ricky Pearson, Kirk Christian. Kirk. And now you have a legitimate weapon for someone. I mean, electrical field. There's going to be an injury.

[Steve Mensch]

So, yeah, you got to beef up. Gotta have depth with that electric field.

[Todd McShay]

But to say it's. We knew he was going to go early in the second round, but I do have pushback in Denzel. Boston's a bigger, stronger version of this.

[Steve Mensch]

Not as fast. I get it.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not as a boss guy. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

But Stribling's a 4.3sec receiver who was productive. Who for me, I couldn't understand why he's almost flew under the radar even though he's putting up these numbers for a playoff team in the sec.

[Todd McShay]

No, we got his grade right. We've been higher on stribling than just about anybody out there. I don't have any problem with that.

[Bill Simmons]

So where'd you have him?

[Todd McShay]

We had him as the. Let's see, we had him as the 51st player in this class, but with

[Steve Mensch]

a second round grade.

[Todd McShay]

With the second round grade. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So they took your 51st guy. 33rd.

[Todd McShay]

33rd. That's why I said I'd like to

[Bill Simmons]

wish everyone in San Francisco congratulations.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, way to go. I would have taken Denzel Boston, but I recognize the speed difference. But I also think Boston's just a better all around football player.

[Steve Mensch]

And if you're worried about Mike Evans, Boston is the Mike Evans guy.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Steve Mensch]

He's that guy.

[Todd McShay]

So it'll be interesting to see if Denzel Boston is sliding a little bit. But he's the 20th player on our board, quite frankly. 20 to 30, 20 to 46 or 50 is not that big of a gap between all these guys. They're 91 to 83 grades, you know. But the fascinating part to me is that they had edge rusher sitting there. They believe in Mikel coming back in Bosa. There's wide receivers you could have gotten later in the draft when you pick again at 58. Yeah. So now you're counting on an edge rusher or a safety to be there at 58. So managing the draft, it's going to be interesting to see how John lynch does that.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. What's interesting to me is that another Rams potential receivers off the board.

[Todd McShay]

But.

[Steve Mensch]

So the Ty Simpson pick, it's more interesting.

[Todd McShay]

I do want to but I would have taken Denzel Boston but I think it's important to point out like his ball skills are outstanding. Striplings. Dejan Striplings.

[Steve Mensch]

He.

[Todd McShay]

His contested catch rate interestingly enough was not exceptional. Oh, we got another pick in. But. But he's a physical guy who's like you said after the catch. 4, 3, 6. Speed. Next pick is up. It's in Arizona. Chase Basantes, the. The guard from. Played some tackle guard from Texas A and M. This is a guy that mensch. This is not your favorite of the three guards.

[Steve Mensch]

No.

[Todd McShay]

The three guards we talked about after Venga Yoane who went predictably 14 to the Baltimore Ravens, there were three guards that were all like late first, early mid. Early second. Right. And those were Keelan Rutledge who went. Who went late first out of Georgia Tech, Chase Besantes and the guy that you and I both really like, Emmanuel Pregnant. Right. Tell the folks about Chase Besantes and like but also why of those three, he was the third on the board for you.

[Steve Mensch]

315 pounds. He's got a good frame, he moves pretty well. Like a lot of these Guys, the Miami tape is. Is a tough watch when they play in the playoffs. And that's kind of my concern is that he overextends. He gets beaten past production a little more. For a guy that I would like Target in the first round. This is still a little early for me, but not, not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

[Todd McShay]

Bills are on the clock. We'll get to that in a minute. That's an intriguing pick. They get Jeremiah Love. Yeah, right. I'm just. I'm laying the groundwork here. You get Jeremiah Love. This is exactly where he should have gone. I don't have a problem with where he's taken.

[Steve Mensch]

I do. With pregnant still on the board.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, you do. But I promise you there's. It's kind of minority in the league. But pregnant is considered one of those three. I do understand. Like Arizona. So Paris Johnson, obviously you signed the left tackle. You got Isaac Sumalo at left guard. You're set at center. I guess left guard is where. Right guard is where you're going to plug him in.

[Steve Mensch]

Who's the right guard?

[Todd McShay]

Isaiah Adams. Okay. But he's a 2024 third round pick. It's just interesting. How does that, how does that play out? They brought in two offensive tackles. Oli Udo as the backup to Elijah Wilkinson. But. But there was a lot of talk about Arizona taking an offensive tackle in. In Francis, Maui, Noah at that number three pick. And now they take a guard in the second round. So it makes you wonder who's. Who's playing where along that offensive front. But what it does tell you very much is a clear vision for Mike lafleur in his first year. We are going to line up and we're going to run the football because we've got Jeremiah Love, Tyler Algier. We'll see what we get from James Connor as he comes back. And we're drafting a guard with essentially a first round pick with the third pick of the second round. Our second pick of the second round. So that part we know.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the Algiers signing.

[Todd McShay]

I do too.

[Bill Simmons]

The combo of that. I didn't mind the pick. I don't know who the best guard was. But you know they're not going to have a quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

So you might as well just beef up your line and just pound the ball. Algiers. Such a good change of pace, guy.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And he's got to be a little pissed.

[Steve Mensch]

He was just overshadowed. But. Yeah. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Because he left Atlanta to get away from this exact situation and gets it in Arizona. But yes, that's. It's a perfect role for him. So the pick is in TJ Parker. Love it. TJ Parker to the Buffalo Bills. This is an excellent pick for the Bills.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, say trade back twice, end up with an edge anyway.

[Todd McShay]

And an edge that by all an edge that we thought coming into the year. Watching his tape, you see him in the Senior Bowl. He resurrected his draft stock in the Senior Bowl. Let's do this. You go to 22, 24. He looks like an ascending top 15 pick. Look at the length, straight arm, the power that he shows. Right. The ability to walk. Offensive tackle, look at that one arm. Oh my gosh, that's who he is.

[Steve Mensch]

There's that still shot of that by the way, where he has the guy

[Todd McShay]

off his feet now. He's not the twitchiest guy his production this past year. I talked to people in the league. The interesting thing they said about TJ Parker is not giving him a pass, but like he had a lot going on this year. New scheme, got married in the middle of the season, which was a confusing decision to make. But like if you're looking for reasons, like we had reasons with Ty Simpson, maybe fell off at the end of the season. There were distractions in his life. This guy is six three and a half, 33 and an eighth inch arm length. The ability to just. You saw in that clip from the Senior bowl, he's like day one, he's a, he's an absolute run stuffing machine and powerful and I think there's pass rushing upside in his game. So for the Bills, do you have

[Bill Simmons]

him as a top three guy who got married during the season or.

[Todd McShay]

No, you got to get like the BYU roster. BYU roster, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

So is that like a bye week? You get married like when you do that.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't know that. It's a red flag decision making for me.

[Steve Mensch]

I that also like what's the wife. That she must have been pushing for that, right?

[Todd McShay]

Like, well, let's, let's, you know, let's, let's get locked in before the contract year. You know, Clemson money. Clemson money's good, but that's crazy to me.

[Steve Mensch]

This guy's game translates to the NFL.

[Bill Simmons]

I was hoping they wouldn't get to it.

[Todd McShay]

There's a trade that's occurred. Okay. The Houston Texans are now making this pick. Is that accurate? The Houston Texans are making this pick. So I don't want to get away from it because I know you want to talk about TJ Parker as well. He's one of your guys. Go Ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, his game just translates to the NFL. All this like a hero about, oh, he's twitchy and he's fast and he's so explosive and dude, you're not going to run around a lot of NFL tackles. It's not a thing like you have to be able to win with power. You got to be able to win with your hands. This kid can do all that in. The numbers weren't great last year, but the tape was good. The Senior bowl was good, the combine was good. This kid was the first round pick to me all day.

[Todd McShay]

This has to be for Kaden McDonald. I'm sorry. It has to be everyone. There's a target on the Giants back. We just traded Dexter Lawrence. There's a first round defensive tackle from Ohio State named Kaden McDonald who's a big, physical Dexter Lawrence type. If there was a comp there, it absolutely is him because Dexter Lawrence wasn't the pass rush. He developed into being the Giants. This guy has not been a great pass rusher at Ohio State, but he

[Bill Simmons]

think Houston moved up to jump the Giants.

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely. To get the interior defensive lineman. This would be a brilliant move by Nick Casario understanding the board. But quite frankly, why wouldn't. The Giants knew there was and knew there was a target on their back for this guy. Why wouldn't they try to move up?

[Steve Mensch]

Maybe they did. Maybe we don't know they did.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, maybe they did, but not hard enough because Houston was able to get to move up that spot.

[Steve Mensch]

And then like, yeah, there's a drop. I mean, I like Lee Hunter, but

[Todd McShay]

I guess it wouldn't be bad. Maybe we're wrong, but if it's Kaden McDonald, this is a guy who, at what, £330? He was. You know how good that Ohio State defense is.

[Steve Mensch]

Obviously he was like fourth in tackles,

[Todd McShay]

fourth or fifth in tackle on that defense, six place.

[Steve Mensch]

And he. I think he's a little bit better as a pass rusher. Oh, I think he can get there. Who's this?

[Todd McShay]

The only guy left in the green room is Kaden McDonald. And we're seeing him now shaking hands, it looks like. Now that doesn't. I'm not getting an indication he's definitively the pick, but that's what. That's who everyone in the world who follows this closely is believing is the pick.

[Steve Mensch]

I like the move. Sticking around. If you don't get drafted 36 to

[Todd McShay]

38, two spots and it create a fourth and a third round swap, it looks like.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't mind that from the Raiders End. You only move back two and you move back.

[Bill Simmons]

Brady was pulling the trigger with Mark Davis.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

You think he got inside information during his TV meetings?

[Todd McShay]

I do, but we shouldn't gloss over, like, as a Patriots fan. Yeah. With. With Greg Russo and Bradley Chubb, like, they needed another pass rusher. And this is a guy who. I don't know that he's going to be elite, but I think that this keeps everyone fresh. Like the pick one pick earlier. TJ Parker going to the Buffalo Bills. I just want to kind of wrap that pick up. Like, that scares me more as an opponent. Cadell is back as an opponent than it does with a cornerback. Yeah, he likes to. Oh, no. He promised that he was going to do this for Kaden McDonald. He promised the hug. I read that over. Oh.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, okay.

[Todd McShay]

So I'm assuming that.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's time the hug. Let's see how long the hug takes.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't wait for this.

[Todd McShay]

You want me to get my stopwatch up?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is the. I think.

[Steve Mensch]

I hope it's an 8 second hug, honestly. I hope it gets weird.

[Bill Simmons]

5, 6 seconds. 5.5 would be my over. Under.

[Steve Mensch]

I love this pick. Nicosterio has done an outrageous job.

[Todd McShay]

Here we go.

[Bill Simmons]

Just what the Texans needed was another.

[Todd McShay]

You ready?

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, he's emotional.

[Bill Simmons]

Derek White is over two on three pointers already in this Philly game. Every shot he takes either goes sideways or hits the back of the rim. And it's going to sink the Celtic season if he doesn't.

[Steve Mensch]

That's great.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't know you had it on.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to stress out soon about this. I think my son has to go to dinner.

[Steve Mensch]

We have like a. At the dinner table, there's a shelf or there's a drawer, and I'm always like, what's going on, man? And I looked down. He's got the self in there. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Here we go.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think we can underrate how important this pick is for the Houston Texans. This guy is an absolutely dominant run defender.

[Bill Simmons]

So why didn't he go higher?

[Steve Mensch]

He should have. I think he should have.

[Todd McShay]

We had him higher. We had him as our. As our. I think he was the only interior defensive lineman. Peter. No, sorry. Peter woods. We had at 32, Kaden McDonald's our number one defensive tackle in this class.

[Steve Mensch]

I think that maybe it was a fit thing that I thought the Chiefs wanted to.

[Todd McShay]

He's a zero. He's like the old school, you know, play him. Play him over the center, take up two gaps. But I Promise you. I like I see past rushing potential and I know you do too. So if this guy develops into what what you and I both think he can be, it gives Houston another, another piece up front on that defensive, on that defense that doesn't need any pieces. That's the beauty of having a roster like this. You just take. And we had interior defensive line, defensive lineman is their number two need like it's not a spot they get. They get Sheldon Rankins there.

[Bill Simmons]

He came in early for the home.

[Steve Mensch]

This is so long. This is so.

[Todd McShay]

Hold on.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, this could be a 15 second look at this. No, it's. This is going to be 20 seconds.

[Steve Mensch]

Does music.

[Todd McShay]

How many seconds?

[Bill Simmons]

This could be the new record.

[Todd McShay]

Probably two seconds.

[Steve Mensch]

Does Endless Love come on.

[Todd McShay]

Anything.

[Bill Simmons]

See get down there is it.

[Todd McShay]

There we go. So I had 15 seconds.

[Bill Simmons]

Goodell's crying.

[Todd McShay]

It's emotional man.

[Steve Mensch]

Good for him.

[Todd McShay]

The only guy of all the invitees to come to the the draft and not go in the first round.

[Bill Simmons]

Really tough.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The all time nightmare.

[Steve Mensch]

Like you could just go home at that point, right? You're like whatever, I'm going home. I like that he stayed. Although he probably knew he was coming off soon.

[Bill Simmons]

That happened a few times in basketball.

[Steve Mensch]

Guys just in the green room and they.

[Bill Simmons]

And in the NBA they just put a camera on the guy and like let's see if we can. Well Aaron watch him emotionally break down.

[Steve Mensch]

They did that with Aaron Rodgers and just a couple other guys.

[Bill Simmons]

It's funny the Rogers thing, it took a life of its own because everyone was saying during that draft if he doesn't go into these two teams he could fall 20 spots. It was like shocking.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, what a great pick for them though

[Bill Simmons]

man. Houston's going to be scary.

[Steve Mensch]

You take that great defense and just make it that much better.

[Bill Simmons]

Going to really need CJ Stroud to not be good this year, right.

[Todd McShay]

The picks in for the New York Giants but he, this guy, just Caden McDonald looking at him, six two and an eight, 32 inch arms, 326 pounds. The explosiveness that he shows getting off the snap into guys pads. I think the most underrated thing with interior defensive linemen is their vision. It's like an instinct vision that you have to have. It's a weird thing to say because when you get into the pads now, it's the moment of truth. A you gotta have the strength to lock out and control that guy. But then if you're late finding the ball, it doesn't matter. He is so quick when he gets to this point of locating where the football is and then has the ability at £326 to go get it. I'm telling, like, the Houston Texans may have just got the biggest steal so far in this draft, and Texans fans are going to absolutely love this dude and what he's going to free up by the two blockers that have to account for him when he's on the field for Will Anderson and the. And the dudes on the outside and the linebackers. And that. This is going to be. This is going to be a pick that you'll. You will remember, Texans fans. All right.

[Steve Mensch]

The. Minnesota might remember.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I make a prediction for the next pick?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's Denzel. Boston time.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I thought you were going to guess the right guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Who.

[Todd McShay]

It's your favorite player.

[Bill Simmons]

Colton is in here, too.

[Todd McShay]

Colton Hood? Yep. Colton Hood, New York Giants. Oh, show them.

[Steve Mensch]

Show them. I want to see the.

[Bill Simmons]

Why wouldn't they take. What do they need more, a corner or receiver? I mean, probably both. Because of the Giants.

[Steve Mensch]

I would go corner with a slight edge.

[Bill Simmons]

Tepid reaction in the war room. Oh, there's a. There's a quick hug.

[Steve Mensch]

I think if they were gonna go receiver, they were gonna go earlier. They needed a. Like, a guy. They already have a bunch of bodies in there. They already have a bunch of, you know, names or whatever, but they don't have.

[Todd McShay]

Dude. They do not. Unless Malik Neighbors.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't really like any of these

[Todd McShay]

Malik Neighbors is not going to be 100 to start the season.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

You brought in. You brought in Darnell Mooney, like, fine. Darius Slayton. Fine. But those should be three. Yeah. Calvin Austin, five. Those should be, like, threes and fours. And fives.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

Really? So

[Bill Simmons]

I guess the Giants can't take a guy named Boston.

[Todd McShay]

No, no.

[Bill Simmons]

It's probably off the board.

[Todd McShay]

That might be the why.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm not sure that's how you want to go about it, but. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or it could just be an Fu to Boston.

[Todd McShay]

But. But the. It is a great pick, obviously, from a. From a value standpoint and. And need was it. It was down low, guy. All right, now I can. Hood, I tried to tell you.

[Bill Simmons]

That's another good pick by the Giants.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So. So Colton Hood here, except for the

[Bill Simmons]

offensive line with a herniated disc.

[Steve Mensch]

It's fine. Everything's fine. If you've thrown everything.

[Bill Simmons]

All the other discs are fine except for that one.

[Todd McShay]

It's herniated.

[Steve Mensch]

He might be a guard and he has a herniated disc, but everything's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'm leaving.

[Steve Mensch]

Good to see you.

[Todd McShay]

It's great to.

[Steve Mensch]

Thank you. Bye.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks for all you guys are doing.

[Steve Mensch]

Thanks.

[Todd McShay]

This has been. This has been awesome. We appreciate it. Love the studios and appreciate everything you've done for us, man. I know. I'm starting to worry there's something I need to start texting people. Colton Hood. Let's get. Let's get back to this. Colton Hood. We saw. We saw some of the clips earlier. Bill Simmons, favorite player still available. I just think he's perfect for this scheme because he's physical, he's confident. I think he's on the up in terms of his ascension. This is the area that I thought, as you saw in that clip, that was the area when the ball's in the air. There was some inconsistency, but even during Senior bowl week, seeing him getting better, he's a corner that like 4, 4, 4 speed. The physicality is there, the confidence is there. Guys love him around that team. I'm excited to see what he does with the Giants and yes, I truly believe it should have been a wide receiver for the Giants. But I think they're looking at this and saying, you know what? And it's, you know what? Give Jones, Joe Shane credit. He has actually for two years now handled the draft extremely well. Knowing the board, he did it last year with obviously the number three pick. They get Abdul Carter and then knowing where to go up and get Jackson, Jackson dart this year. He understands, as we talked about that this is going to be a situation where the cornerbacks come off the board quickly in the round, in round two, you're going to see this run happen. We talked about Colton Hood. We talked about Jermod McCoy, where his injury, where a team feels comfortable. We talked about d' Angelo Pons, Avion, Terrell, Brandon Sissay. I think this is where the run's going to be and they know we've got all these other wide receivers. We can come back. We pick again at 105. Let's make sure that we get our corner back here because there's not one there that can start for us at 105.

[Steve Mensch]

I had like an up and down ride with Hood. I remember watching him, right, you liked him more than I did initially. And then watching him right after Chris Johnson from San Diego State who I obviously loved and then when I went back and watched him more, the more I liked him, I think Hood, they made the right move by taking him here. I know there's that bucket of corners he's different. I think he's at the top of that list.

[Todd McShay]

All right, so the Raiders are on the clock, and it looks like they're not far away from making a selection. And when you look at the Raiders, they have a lot of needs, obviously, wide receivers. One of them. I thought it could be Denzel Boston here. It wouldn't surprise me if it's one of the hot names that we've talked about coming into today. Emmanuel McNeil, Warren, Trey, Dan Stukes, those safeties. And there it is. Trade in Stukes, safety from Arizona. And this guy's an absolute playmaker. And you got. You kind of got to love what. What they're doing, right? The. You've got your quarterback, obviously, at number one. But now you come back and like, this is. This is a guy that a lot of teams were looking at. Mensch.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, he's guys I think he's going to play over the nickel. He is tall, he has a good frame. He's got to fill it out a little bit more. He is fast. He's instinctive. The one thing I will say about him is he has smaller hands and he drops some picks, but he's always in position to make a play.

[Todd McShay]

Greatest pick of the entire draft. Exactly.

[Steve Mensch]

When you. You can drop some. If you are get. You're constantly getting in position to make plays. He can win 50, 50 balls. He tracks the ball well. He's versatile. It did not surprise me. This is another one of those players. There's been some players, some defensive backs we talked about Mansour Delane, that when we got on the phone and talked, we were on the page immediately. Same page immediately. And when we watched trade and Stukes kind of later in the process, we both spoke and it was this kid is.

[Todd McShay]

He's a difference maker, an absolute difference maker. And I also feel good about the fact that we have been talking ad nauseam about two players that when I'm having conversations in the league, I'm getting more questions asked about who Dejon, Stribling and trade in Stu. Yes. Teams were at a frenzy to find out. Now, I don't want to shortchange Stukes. I hope people understand, like, this is a nickel safety that can come in and play so many wear so many different.

[Steve Mensch]

These players are becoming more important. Think about Jalen Petrie, the guys who are playing in that close to the line of scrimmage role. They can handle the tight ends that are playing in line and detaching. It's an important position in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

Right. He's going to become like an identity piece for this defense as the Raiders continue to rebuild that roster. I actually love this pick. And you could say, well, Emmanuel Neil Warren was rated high. They're different football players, man. This is exactly what the Raiders need in Stukes. Cleveland Browns are on the clock. My goodness, if the Browns don't take Denzel Boston with this pick, I don't understand something's wrong and I will start making, making not calls but texts. Can't do both at the same time because Denzel Boston with it with a receiver room of Jerry Judy, Cedric Tillman, Isaiah Bond and oh, and obviously they drafted Casey Concepcion. Casey Concepcion. So you've upgraded Bond, which was an absolute necessity in the slot. And as much as I like Cedric Tolman, where he got drafted on day two coming out. But wouldn't you like to as you're the Cleveland Browns and you're preparing for 2027 or for Shador Sanders to break out and to go to the next level and to be your guy forever. Okay. Either way, as you're getting it figured out in 2026 for the 2027 season, wouldn't you love to have Jerry Judy, Denzel Boston, Casey Concepcion with. With appropriately in the four and five slots. Isaiah Bond, explosive weapon.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Can't trust him consistently, but explosive. And Cedric Tillman, another big body wide receiver, wouldn't you love it?

[Steve Mensch]

And if you're trying to evaluate a young quarterback and find out whether that quarterback's going to be your quarterback of the future in Shador Sanders, don't you want him in a position that he should be successful, that he can have success? So you get an accurate read, you're not looking back on it and say, well, if we had better receivers, the kid might have done better.

[Todd McShay]

There were four players coming, coming into today, four players in our top 32 that were still available. We had 28 that we got in the first round. Colton Hood just came off the board recently. Kaden McDonald you saw emotionally hugging the commissioner Roger Goodell. TJ Parker came off the board as well. Parker was the first, was the first of those three. Then McDonald. Parker went to Buffalo, McDonald to Houston and Hood to the Giants. With the exception of Denzel Boston, there's not a single player in our top 32 still available. So it would make a lot of sense if that were the pick here for the Cleveland Browns. From our standpoint, but also depth chart wise and building your roster as I just laid out other positions they could go, yes, they could use an edge rusher, but to me it's wide receiver or edge. The pick is in mensch. Here we go. Next year, Tutum. See how I got after bill about the 2027 draft on the you, you are not.

[Steve Mensch]

You give me such a hard time for going after Elliot Wolf and then

[Todd McShay]

and then Bill Simmons, but that's something for our family. Man. I love it.

[Steve Mensch]

I just don't know if it's an on air conversation.

[Todd McShay]

It's definitely not an on air conversation and it's awkward and I shouldn't have done it.

[Steve Mensch]

I appreciate it.

[Todd McShay]

But you know me, it's like that said my rebirth. Everything's transparent. Yeah, I guess he's gonna stop picking up Denzel Boston.

[Steve Mensch]

There it is.

[Todd McShay]

Denzel Boston is a pick to kind

[Steve Mensch]

of go back to what you're saying a minute ago. By the way, if he falls farther than this, it starts like make some calls. What's going on with Denzel Boston?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

What don't we know?

[Todd McShay]

It was in the Kobe Dean texting and figuring out, oh there was. There's a biceps or stress fracture.

[Steve Mensch]

Something's going on because this kid is way too good to last any longer on the play.

[Todd McShay]

Well, let's talk about Denzel Boston. Denzel Boston is a favorite of ours and I'll be quite honest with you. You liked him first and you probably finished liking him a little bit more than I did. I didn't think the routes were as crisp as you thought. But I can tell you this. He's six, three and a half. He's got those long 32 inch arms to go out and get the football. 35 inch vertical at that size 212 pounds. He is everything you would expect in a big physical ex wide receiver. The production was outstanding and I'll be honest with you, 62 catches, 881 yards for 14.2 and 11 touchdowns last year might as well have been 100 for 15, 19 and 20 touchdowns considering the situation, the situation of the quarterback position. Okay. The inaccuracy at times what he does for you is what he did at Washington is he has such a big catch radius and those contested catch opportunities become like it was technically. Pff. 77, 33. He had 77% of his contested catch opportunities but you see even a little bit more out of him. So now with the I want you to take in the Cleveland Browns. You're a Browns fan and you're hoping Shador is the guy. DeSean Watson still hanging out there and looming is the 2027 NFL Draft and you got Casey Concepcion. You're talking about two perfect compliments with Jerry Judy. What do you see for Denzel Boston? If I'm a Browns fan, what am I getting from Boston?

[Steve Mensch]

That's my point with him, is that he allows everyone on that roster to slot into the right position. Jerry Judy's now the. You know, the number two is a Z. Yeah. You have your X in Boston, your Z in Judy and your slot. And Concepcion. As far as a player goes, there's a couple things that I want to mention here. I think he's a better route runner and he does a little bit better job of separating than you do. And for big guy, I think he moves really well. If I'm racking my brain here as to why he fell, we kind of talked about this earlier in the process. Run the 40, man. His decision not to run the 40 at the combine, his decision not to run the 40 at his pro day, I think ultimately probably cost him in terms of where he went. Now he still goes. Listen, early second is good. He's a. That's a good place to go as a. As a player. But I think he had first round talent. If you're looking for reasons that might be one of them.

[Todd McShay]

The Chiefs are on the clock. I love that pick for Cleveland. I just want to. Let's put a bow on it. I absolutely love that click pick for Cleveland.

[Steve Mensch]

They are doing everything right right now, by the way. Execute the plan on the first day, trade back, still get an offensive.

[Todd McShay]

I promise you I was just take a wide receiver.

[Steve Mensch]

Now they get another. Now they take advantage of who falls to them on the board. They are off to a really strong

[Todd McShay]

start and they did the same thing last year, which gave them this opportunity by moving back and getting Mason Graham with that first pick. Collecting the additional first that just became KC Concepcion, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And Travis Hunter. We'll see how that all plays out. But rather than sticking and picking Travis Hunter, you move back and you get an additional pick. And now you have Mason Graham and KC Concepcion. And I would ask Jaguars fans, are you would you rather have Mason Graham and KC Concepcion or Travis Hunter? And it's what we'll see over time. But that's the comp. It's not 1 versus 1, it's 2 versus 1.

[Steve Mensch]

And the good news for the Browns is they can't draft Dylan Gabriel twice.

[Todd McShay]

The Bengals are on the clock with the 10th pick of the second round because the ninth pick was just made by the Kansas City Chiefs. And the Chiefs with this selection. Right after yesterday. After yesterday, taking the. The cornerback Mansour Delaine, who you absolutely love. And then later in the first round taking Peter Woods. They stick with the defensive side. Hey, nothing to see here, man. Patrick's going to be just fine. He's coming back. Offense is fine. We don't need weapons, we don't need a tight end. We're sticking defense for the third pick in a row for the Chiefs and taking our Mason Thomas, a relentless, relentless edge rusher. Undersized but relentless. And he now, I mean if you're spags, if you're Spagnola, one of the great, if not the, the top defensive coordinator in all the National Football League and you're looking at this draft, it's. It's reminiscent. Reminiscent. Reminds me of reminiscent. Reminiscent of. Of the year after they drafted Mahomes when they had six picks and they took six defensive players. Like this is right away they're attacking this, that side of the ball after letting a couple corners go in free agency. But let's, let's take the folks through our Mason Thomas.

[Steve Mensch]

This is your guy.

[Todd McShay]

I don't want you cook. Our Mason Thomas, yes. Is undersized, as I mentioned. He's six, two and a quarter. He's got shorter arms, 31 and five, eight inches. Ran a four, six, seven, 40 yard dash, which is really, really good in today's day and age. It' exceptional. And his 10 yard splits over that number, which I wasn't pumped about. And quite honestly, the workout was part of the reason why I had to bring him back to the pack a little bit. Right. Cassius Howell and our Mason Thomas on tape. These undersized edge rushers were two of the best in the entire draft class. When you watch, when you watch our Mason Thomas on tape, you see a guy who a the snap awareness and his ability to fight like take off is unbelievable. His toughness and there's a play, there's a clip of him, not a clip, there's a play that I'm watching on tape and he's chasing down from behind from one side of the field to the other just to save five yards at the end. And he like it like his life depends on it. His game is built on effort, takeoff burst, initial snap. Like he's got this forward lean about him and he gets a little snap. Then it's the moment of truth though. And we're going to find out in the league without the longest arms, without that elite speed is this ability that he has developed instinctively. Toughness, motor, quick hands, tying it all together. Is that enough?

[Steve Mensch]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

Donovan Ezrico is an example. Recently, right. The Colts got the ucla. Two.

[Steve Mensch]

Two.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, whatever. The last couple years, we've seen a couple guys like this and maybe it takes a year for them to develop into that. What's that?

[Steve Mensch]

It's Lotu. Latte.

[Todd McShay]

Latu. Latu. Right. So our Mason Thomas, can he. Can he get it done this year in a. In a DPR role? That's going to be the question. But I want to remind people, too, this is a young man whose product, whose production was absolutely exceptional. He had six and a half sacks, nine and a half tackles for loss, and he did it all. It was like nine games into the season when he had the. When he had the return for a touchdown that flipped the game for Tennessee and basically got Oklahoma into the college football playoffs. He's that kind of impact player. And I think, I mean, the Chiefs, absolutely. Now a defensive tackle, an edge rusher and a cornerback. Of those three picks, this defense is like, you're going to have to buckle up.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Maybe a better fit for them too, than a Zion Young.

[Todd McShay]

I agree.

[Steve Mensch]

You know what I mean? I like Zion Young a little bit more, but I'm not picking four. Specifically the Chiefs.

[Todd McShay]

Here's an interesting pick, and by interesting, I mean I don't love it, to be honest with you. Christian Miller with the 10th pick of the second. Second round goes to the New Orleans Saints interior defensive lineman. I like Christian Miller. I don't. I'm cool with him. Not in the second round, but certainly not the 10th pick of the second round and certainly not when I'm looking at this board and I've got. I've got. I mean, I would have to pull up their positions and obviously it's specific to what they're looking for, but I didn't have, you know, I had interior defensive line down the road for them. Zion Young still available. Available. They needed a linebacker. Jacob Rodriguez is available. Cassius Howell is available.

[Steve Mensch]

Gabe Akis.

[Todd McShay]

Gabe Akis is available. But let's get into Christian Miller. He's an interior defensive lineman, right. From Georgia. I watched his tape the first go around. Not like a full report, but just getting a feel for him, like early in the process and during the season, too. We did a breakdown of the Georgia. Of the Georgia defense and why this year's defense didn't feel like the recent years. And I thought he was solid in every regard, but not great in any. He's a very, very good run stopper. Right. I think his pass rush skills are mid at best. I don't see A lot of upside at all, to be honest with you. But I like every down. It's consistency, it's toughness, motor. There's just not a lot. His game is NFL built. He's going to be a really good run stopper. But am I getting more than like 30, 35 snaps out of him to stop the run? Clearly that's what they're looking to get out of him, but I feel like it's a little rich to take him. Maybe you can throw a better spin on the 6 foot 336 foot 4, almost 321 pounder who does have long 33 inch arms and 10 inch hands.

[Steve Mensch]

I think you're betting on that a little bit. I think you're betting on him. He hasn't maybe reached his potential versus a Lee Hunter from Texas Tech who has. I just think Lee Hunter has much better tape. Like it's hard for me to put a better spin on it. I mean it's obviously a need for them. They're old at defensive tackle. This guy's going to come in and help them on their run. Def. I get all of that. I just think that we're getting into a place here now in the draft where there are players that I would prefer that over him going that early. I think Lee Hunter is an obvious pick for them. I think he does a lot of the same things, but I think he's more dynamic. But this is how teams might, they might view players. They're going to look at Lee Hunter and say he's kind of maybe tapped out. He didn't test as well as maybe some of the other guys did and they're not going to. To view him as highly because they think they can get more out of Kristen Miller.

[Todd McShay]

And I get it, man. Like Nathan shepherd and Devon God Shaw are your, are your two defensive tackles and God show has been a really good player, but none high impact, not special. You, you want to make sure that you're, you're. You want to make sure that you're getting younger, cheaper and stronger at that position. I get that part. I also get this in defense of it. His and to your point, his pass rush win rate has improved each of the last three years and he was up to 11. His pressure rate was. Yeah, pass rush win rate was up to like 11.5 this past season. So he's a guy who is ascending in that regard. And quite honestly, they've drafted some players over the years along the defensive front that I thought were maybe they were a little high on and it's worked out so, so we'll, we'll see how, how that goes for the Saints. But the Saints now let's look the Saints in their situation. They with this, that pick, the 10th pick in the round they, they take the interior defensive lineman and in the first round they take Jordan Tyson for Tyler Schuck. So one side of the ball each. In the first two picks they pick again at 73 and then not again until 132. So they've got one more pick tonight that we'll get to assuming they don't trade back in from, from all the way out of 132. That would be a massive, that's a full round trade back in. This pick is interesting, right? Miami just best player available for us. Best player available would be a short list of Emmanuel McNeil, Warren Zion Young and Jacob Rodriguez.

[Steve Mensch]

Get one of them. Just get one.

[Todd McShay]

Get one of those guys. And so far I've been, I've been impressed with what Miami has done. John Eric Sullivan you recognize at 12, you better get your offensive tackle. And they did that in Kaden Proctor. And yes, his tape is a little up and down and yes, his tape had. You could see times where he was £390 and then he's down to £350 and he's a damn better football player when he's £350 and we all know that. And he's a damn good football player when he is. So there's all that to consider. And then Miami also with that later in the first round they trade up just a little bit and get a player that we absolutely love in Chris Johnson at corner. So they recognize where the tackle run was going to go and they took the best tackle on the board. Appreciate that. They recognized where the cornerback was going to board was going to start to flow late in the first before the early second, they took our favorite player at that position outside of obviously the number one corner in Mansour Delaine. And here in the second round they take one of the leagues fair favorite players to be honest with you. Jacob Rodriguez. I like that pick a lot. I'll start with Jacob Rodri. This is not your favorite pick. Let's go back to the Senior bowl because after a season of peanut punches creating turnovers, interceptions, big play moments in big games, we saw the exact same thing at the Senior Bowl. Yeah, it's hard as a linebacker to stand out. We saw Kyle Lewis from Pitt standard out. We saw Jacob Rodriguez stand out and both of them were turning the football over. What is Rodriguez Do. He is instinctive in coverage. He is instinctive at the tackle point. He is going to. And he honestly, he's one of the best leaders that you're looking for on the defensive side. This guy is matured. He's married. You know the story about his wife and the military and everything they've been through and, and like the intangibles are at a different level. He's only. He's the only FBS player since 2005 to have recorded at least 300 career tackles, 10 force fumbles, five interceptions and five fumble recoveries. Do you understand what kind of playmaker that Miami just brought in?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I think, look, it's interesting because they get Caden Proctor who had had some questions about is he conditioning the right way, is he eating the right way? You the two guys they get on

[Todd McShay]

defense, there is a trade and we don't have the pick yet. But just to let everyone know there's a trade that the Lions are moving up into that jet spot. So the jets had to give away a pick to move up. Now they're moving back, maneuvering the board. Darren Mugi, the GM is doing a nice job. Detroit is gonna, is moving up here. We'll get to that pick in just a minute, but keep going with Rodriguez to Miami. Miami.

[Steve Mensch]

So they get what they've done on the defensive side of the ball is added to very smart. Two great leaders. Two very smart players. Two great leaders. They are changing the culture of their defense by taking Chris Johnson the corner from San Diego State and then Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech. The violence and timing of Rodriguez punch when he's going after the ball is outrageous. He just has a knack for it unlike any other player I have evaluated in college. The one knock I have on him is he misses a lot of tackles.

[Todd McShay]

He does.

[Steve Mensch]

He's flying around 40, 42 tackles missed

[Todd McShay]

the last two seasons.

[Steve Mensch]

He's always around the ball. I, and I, I, I love the player. One of the reasons I thought that this was early and maybe some of the first round talk was a little too early was the missed tackles. But you're getting a smart player. You're getting a guy who's going to be great in the locker room. He's going to be, he's going to be the DOT linebacker for them. He's going to be calling all the calls. I'm sure of that.

[Todd McShay]

And I think it kind of sealed the deal. Man, when, when the Senior bowl was great, but when he went to the combine and he had a 38,8 inch vertical jump showing that lower body explosion in that frame which is a good solid frame. It's 613-8231. It's your will linebacker frame. But then to do the 10:1 broad jump, most importantly, he ran a 4, 5, 7 and I think that people were maybe a little concerned. Does he have that speed? No, not the 4 5, 7. I forgot the 20 shuttle and the 3 cone were the best in three years. That was the difference. A 4193 short shuttle and a 693 cone were best in three years at the combine from the linebacker position. While we have our first really surprising pick. For me.

[Steve Mensch]

Not for me.

[Todd McShay]

You had Derek Moore as the. As the 34th best player in this draft. No, as the 44th best player.

[Steve Mensch]

I thought he was in that range. I told you.

[Todd McShay]

Okay then this is by all means because Detroit and I have a great deal of respect for Brad Holmes. I took great pride in backing Brad Holmes when he took a running back, a tight end and a linebacker with his first three picks. Just a few years ago as we were sitting there in. Was it Kansas City? Yeah, it was Kansas City for the draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I thought he did a sensational job that year. And he continues to this pick like I'm not. It's not my favorite, let's put it that way.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I guess I should apologize for liking a Michigan Edge who's 6 foot 4, 255 pounds with 33 and 38 inch arms and was productive.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but he played his arm length like Cassius Howell played with longer arms. On the tape I watched, I just didn't think Derek Moore was that impactful. I thought he was like steady and good and yeah long arm guy and I can see the power. I just don't see a guy who's a difference maker as a pass rusher.

[Steve Mensch]

So you didn't see the guy who ranked just behind David Bailey and Akeem Essador as the highest win rate as a pass rusher.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, sure.

[Steve Mensch]

This is, this is. I keep on harping on this and this is why a Cassius Howell might go later because his tape is better. These are guys that translate to the NFL. It is power, it is length. You have to have. You don't have to be the biggest guy. But 250, 255 pounds is going to help at the next level. And I would. When you look at his length, maybe he doesn't use it the best every time, but he has it and when he does use it, it looks great. He can get into guys frames. He can push them around. He's got some power as an edge rusher. I would not advocate for taking this guy in the first round, but now we're getting to the middle of the second round.

[Todd McShay]

We're talking.

[Steve Mensch]

We're just talking about a guy I think has been a little undervalued.

[Todd McShay]

Well, I think the Baltimore Ravens are. Are on the clock, and I'm counting on them to make a better pick at the edge position because that's what they need. I'm not killing it. Like, I had him at 73 overall.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, you had a second.

[Todd McShay]

And you thought he should be a little. You thought he should be higher third round. And you. You honestly. You honestly had a second round grade on him.

[Steve Mensch]

I told you how much I liked him.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. All right.

[Steve Mensch]

Dude, really trying to call me out like that.

[Todd McShay]

Come on. No, I. I love this conversation. Yeah, I love this conversation. I like. I did. I. I went through all the edge rushers and stacked them. I like Detroit. Brad Holmes is a really good GM and he's backing you. Anything's like, I'm getting called out by Brad Holmes and you, so I'm cool with that.

[Steve Mensch]

What's fascinating to me about this conversation is that I feel like as we evolve as evaluators, sometimes the script gets flipped. And I would have been a guy who was pushing for the cashless Howells and the armies and Thomases of the world 10 years ago, and you would have called me on the phone and been like, man, I get it. You would have understood and been reasonable about it. But you're like, it's still a height weight speed league. You would have told me that over and over again. There's still these. The outliers, man, the outliers are tough. They don't like. The league does not favor outliers because they're outliers for a reason. And they generally don't work out.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I mean, and the need is absolutely there. There's no question about it. And I get it that you see more pass rush upside in Derek Moore than I do, and clearly Brad Holmes does. DJ Wanham is not your answer.

[Steve Mensch]

He 10 sacks in the Big 10 last year.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, circle this moment, folks, because if Derrick Moore becomes that guy. Another Michigan edge going opposite Aiden Hutchinson in Detroit, then I will eat it for as long as I need to eat this one. But I just. And again, we're talking 30 picks later. I've got him around difference. It's not huge. It's not like I had him day three, but I just. This high with the players that are still on the board. And one of those players. One of those players is a player that I have ranked 35th overall, who I see a little bit more pass rush upside in, even though his production wasn't nearly as good in college. And that's Zion Young.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And the Baltimore Ravens are sitting there, 30. What is it now? 40. The 14th pick, 13th pick of the second.

[Bill Simmons]

Second round.

[Todd McShay]

The 45th pick. Thanks for the math, Tuck. And that's a player I think should be the choice there. They also have opportunities. I think a safety would make a lot of Sense with Emmanuel McNeil Warren. They've had one pick so far, correct me if I'm wrong, and that was the offensive guard Baltimore did. Venga Yoane, coming out of Penn State, wide receiver is still a position of need. The top guy who came off the board there and Dejon Stripling came off the board. I'm cool with the receivers for a minute. I'm going to be honest with you. We'll get to Jeremy Bernard in a little while. We'll get to Chris Bell and Antonio Williams, I think. Now this, this run is about edge. Cornerback, linebacker, and then Emmanuel McNeil Warren at safety. That's what this run is all about. Well, you're going to see a lot of those three positions coming off the board in the next 10 plus picks. Okay,

[Steve Mensch]

There it is.

[Todd McShay]

Zion Young.

[Steve Mensch]

Great pick.

[Todd McShay]

Great pick. Should have been a pick earlier. Let it go. No, I love it. I love it.

[Steve Mensch]

This guy should not have lasted that long. I mean, I could. I could still be high on Derek Moore and say that this. I mean, I'm looking at some of the edges that have already come off the board. I'm like, how, like how, how?

[Todd McShay]

Zion Young is an absolute, certified lunatic. And I love that about him. And I mean that in the greatest possible way. Watch him at the Senior Bowl. First of all, you don't have to be a super sleuth or super scout to figure out long arms and the build of this guy. At 6 foot 6, 262 pounds, 33 inch arm length. Yes. Six and a half sacks last year. It's not exceptional. But he had 15 and a half tackles for loss, 42 tackles, forced two fumbles. When I watch this guy on tape, it's an absolute lunatic of anger and frustration, and it's all bottled up in fast, vicious, violent play. And he plays the NFL game like, I get it, you're a Derrick Moore guy, but this is what Derrick Moore should look like. But honestly, like. And there's Some other guys in terms. Now his pass rush development is not there. But Zion Young in terms of like the get off the explosion into pads, the one arm walking back, the fighting through blocks, the ability to work off of blocks and go make plays versus the run. He I like. He's got this euro step. He's got. He's got some different moves but he's got to now tie them together and have a plan. Okay. His hands aren't great. That was the big thing. He's got smaller hands. Nine and a half. I don't think that's the reason why. Hand to hand combat, if you can get that figured out with Zion Young who now goes to Baltimore and by the way, pretty good guy at Kyle Van Noy if he's back there, which I assume he's going to be to learn under one of the all time pass rush artistes. Kyle Van Noy is a pass rush artiste. Okay. And now Zion Young gets to be in the same D line room with him and practice every single day. And hey, come here. Remember like Magna walking through the like.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

All day long.

[Steve Mensch]

Thanks for reminding me about that. It was great.

[Todd McShay]

So in his run like his. His run Win rate was 9.3. The best among the edge prospects in this class. So the. The Baltimore Ravens right away with Zion Young get an elite run defender and a guy whose development can be there as a pass rusher. I love the pass. And don't forget, they might green in the second round last year.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Could take the next step. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And obviously they're bringing Trey Hendrickson. So like now this Ravens defense is starting to look like a Ravens defense. This was a priority, a massive priority. And so they've attacked it. So. So hats off to. To the gang down in Baltimore in the she crab soup. What is it?

[Steve Mensch]

The blue crab soup.

[Todd McShay]

Blue crab soup. Blue crab soup. Yeah. Eric Dacosta is running a good show there and took it over for Ozzy Newsom and continues to do a great job. All right, what do we got next?

[Steve Mensch]

We've got.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, pick is in Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

[Steve Mensch]

Ooh, this is a reach.

[Todd McShay]

This is a major, major reach. This is so the Bucks. The Colts just traded the next pick, the 16th pick of the second round, which is smart. They have not. They don't have a lot of picks obviously for. For re. For. The reason was they. They obviously made the trade for the. For the cornerback this. This season. Lost their first round pick. But the Indianapolis Colts are making a trade and Pittsburgh's moving up. You can see the Terrible towels going. But we can't glaze over the fact that Jeremiah Trotter, who I'm fine. Within the third. I think we landed with a fourth round grade. Winds up going pick 14 of the second round. What do you. What do you got to say?

[Steve Mensch]

Men, you're losing a first ballot hall of Famer and Levante David, who we both love coming out of college. Shout out. Levante David. I don't think people realize how good a career he had. That being said, Josiah Charter is not that player. He is a thumper. He is a physical between the tackles, take on blocks, slip under blocks a little bit. He's got. He's aggressive, which he can get caught out of his gap every once in a while. He's young too. So maybe they're seeing this player could develop. I don't see great speed on tape. I don't see great cover skills on tape. And that's why this is a player that I would think would be later. Later in the draft. I think, I think early fourth round, late third round is a better, better spot for this player.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Clearly for Tampa Bay, it's, it's an emphasis on. On getting their. Their defensive front seven right after what was. Honestly, it was embarrassing. Like Tate McShay is a massive Buccaneers fan. So I watch a lot more on a given Sunday with the Buccaneers than I do.

[Steve Mensch]

I wonder how that happened.

[Todd McShay]

Brady. And then. But now it is. We're all in. We're all in. But. But.

[Steve Mensch]

So now we have an up and down draft for the Bucks.

[Todd McShay]

They get.

[Steve Mensch]

They get Reuben Bain Jr somehow falls on them at 15 and now I think they reach on their replacement for Levante.

[Todd McShay]

They. Yeah, I don't totally disagree, but yes they do. They do but. And they brought in Alex Anzalone is one of the linebackers. We knew they were going to take a linebacker, but this is not the guy where we thought they were going to take him. You could have let me pull this up. This is the problem I get. I probably shouldn't get as frustrated as I do, but when you do this for a living year round, it gets frustrating like not knowing the board. Easy money. You get him at 77 and if you don't, there are other linebackers to get that are cut of a similar

[Steve Mensch]

mold and there are a lot of talented corners here.

[Todd McShay]

So we don't love the pick and we don't have to beat it to death. No do love this next pick though. Jeremy Bernard and traded up four. So the Rams are In trouble if they want. If they want Dejon Stribling or Jeremy Bernard in the second round. Those are the two guys that fit. There are other guys will find. Hey, I don't care. They got Ty Simpson the deduction. But I'm not allowed to do any more victory laps as you and Bill Simmons reminded me. Why don't you start with Jeremy Bernard? Because he was my guy at first and then you were carrying. You were making sure that I didn't come off of him. Go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

I lovingly call this man's game boring. And why do I call boring? Because he gets open, he catches the football and he gets up field and he makes plays. He's so bad after the catch that Alabama like to get him involved in the running game. Makes zero sense. Sense to me. He ran in the four fours, so that's correct. Do you have his time Right there.

[Todd McShay]

He ran a 4 4H 44 8. Which actually kind of surprised me.

[Steve Mensch]

Which people for some reason people think is slow. This guy checks every box in terms of being a good receiver, not a great receiver, but a good receiver. He gets open, catches the ball. Productive after the catch. I don't like. I think we're overthinking it with Jeremy Bernard for way too long now. This is. I'm glad he went here. I think this is the appropriate spot for her for him. I think people thought he might slip into the third round. Really good player. Obviously they felt the same way because they cheered up to get him.

[Todd McShay]

Here's what I do know. If you're going to bring in a rookie wide receiver with that quarterback, assuming Aaron Rodgers is back, this guy better know his shit. Yep. He better be ready to be a pro immediately. And Jeremy Bernard is the most know his shit wide receiver in this entire draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Draft.

[Todd McShay]

Like you want to talk about consistency and being where you're supposed to be and option routes. Knowing. Knowing. Read this. Get the get here. Understanding soft spots and zones. He is not your guy who's going to go despite a 6713 cone which was exceptional but also shows like the body control and the ability to redirect and change directions after the catch, which is what he excels at. But this is a guy who you can absolutely count on. Yes. In every situation and when pro he's. He's a pro already. And now he becomes officially a pro for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like I don't know. I just. The skeptics point to some like yards per route run. 1.71 last season and 2.16 in 20, 24. Fine. Yeah. Have it. This guy's. This guy will catch and after the catch, break a tackle and then we'll make a guy. Not. He's not the guy. No, but he's going to. He's going to weave with vision. I just. I think he's a perfect Pittsburgh Steeler and I think he's perfect. If Aaron Rodgers comes back, if you were to draft him, if you said,

[Bill Simmons]

Todd,

[Todd McShay]

you get one wide receiver for Aaron Rodgers that won't by mid season be a fifth on the depth chart and won't be basically allowed on the field on Sundays, who would it be? Jeremy Bernard. Yeah. And so they got the right guy

[Steve Mensch]

here and now they have.

[Todd McShay]

You have dk.

[Steve Mensch]

Where's Bernard? Great. Working at of the slot.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. You got DK Metcalf and you have Michael Pittman, who you traded for this receiving core. Should be.

[Todd McShay]

I don't even know it compliments, it complements one another.

[Steve Mensch]

It's. It's significantly better than what they had last year. And if you're trying to get an Aaron Rodgers to come back, I think this would be a pick he would be intrigued by.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I don't think Aaron Rodgers is going to look at any rookie wide receiver and be like, I'm now, I'm coming back. But I. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I'd like to take a look at our board when we get in the next few minutes, if we have a chance of the updated board just to see, because it's moved despite a couple guys coming off earlier at 73 with Derek Moore, 65, with Christian Miller, the exception, like it's. It's stacking pretty good. The way I see it, now we've got Atlanta on the clock, right? Atlanta's sitting on the clock. This is their first pick. So let's give Atlanta a little bit of a treatment here For Falcons fans who have been hanging around for the draft, getting excited about what's to come, they need an interior defensive lineman. Thank you, Tucker. Thank you, Dan. Here's our best available, Jermod McCoy. They're still there. It could be 30 more picks. We know the reason. There's nothing shocking there. He's just so talented that we got to keep him in. In consideration. Okay. Emmanuel McNeil, Warren, the safety, that is not necessarily a need, but this is certainly would be a value for the. For the Atlanta Falcons. I'll tell you what is a need, linebacker. You get Jake Galde sitting there, you get C.J. allen sitting there. Both of those guys kind of Feel like Atlanta Falcons and obviously CJ from the local guy. Then you've got interior defensive line. And I don't know if there's anyone that was on that board. I didn't see Lee Hunter. Lee Hunter. And then wide receiver and edge are the other positions that I think the Falcons could be looking for their wide receiver group. It's interesting, right, because you look at the Falcon, Joe. Yeah. They get Drake London. They got a good tight end, Kyle Pitts. Right. But Drake London's got what, Jahan Dotson and, and, and, and Zacchaeus, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Dotson and Zacchaeus come in as free agents. They combined for 57 catches last year, bud.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

This is not the answer. But they go cornerback. The Atlanta Falcons do. Avion Terrell. What?

[Steve Mensch]

Little brother of AJ Terrell.

[Todd McShay]

Very good point.

[Steve Mensch]

I love it. It's all in the family, man. It's all in the family. And I'm guessing Avion Trail, because he doesn't have that big frame, will end up playing in the nickel for them.

[Todd McShay]

But man, this is some question if he can, but go ahead. Yep.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. This is a talented player who really flashes on tape. Some thought he could be a first round guy. I think this is. I think he can. Do you think he.

[Todd McShay]

Well, he ran a 46 at his pro day, but his hamstring was injured, so. So NFL teams had to go back and really study the miles per hour and they had him clocked as a low to mid mid 44 guy. Based off the analytics and the numbers from the.

[Steve Mensch]

That's what I see.

[Todd McShay]

I absolutely see a low four. The speed was never a problem with him. The question was with 31 inch arms average 510 and 3/4 below average, 186 pounds below average as a primary, primarily an outside corner at Clemson and a damn good one. But there were some ups and downs like all of these corners. But a really talented cover guy on the outside at that size, you usually play him on the inside. Well, he's not the most physical guy in support and it's a grown man's game inside. When you're playing that nickel, there's a lot more traffic to sift through. There's a lot more physicality. There are some matchups you don't like against big slots like that. So that's the question on Terrell. Not necessarily even the 40 speed, but this is a guy who can play. I liked him. I. But I like the 39 career games. I like the fact that, that, you know, you could turn them loose. He's Got a few sacks. He, like, he flies around the field, but I just don't know the strength and the physicality. That's why he's here in the second round. But it's a, it's a great fit in Atlanta. Do you want to. Vikings and Panthers just traded. So just flopping picks from 17 to 19. The Vikings go from 17 to 19. Carolina comes up to 17. I'll ponder on that. But if there's anything more on Terrell that you want to mention, go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

I just think, I mean, you look at the situation, who's going to know better about the character of this kid than you already have the older brother on the roster. You got a feel for what that family's like. You have a feel for what the little brother's going to be like. I love the pick and I think this is, this is an example of a team taking advantage of a poor number of. A poor testing number of, of maybe Terrell, maybe, I don't know, maybe he dropped because of that bad 40 time. But how about the kid going out and competing with a, With a bad hamstring? I think you get some credit for that. I think he can play in the nickel. I, I understand Todd's concerns about the physicality. You're not wrong. It is a smaller frame. Can he hold up there? I get all that. I, I believe that he can, though.

[Todd McShay]

And, and I, I do want to point out a really nice job by Ian Cunningham in his first job, first time, as we'll call it. General manager Matt Ryan is kind of overseeing things, but Ian Cunningham, who, like we've known him forever with Joe Douglas and the White House in Baltimore, and he's moved up and he's been Chicago and Philly, he's done it the right way and this is the first time he gets to essentially call the shots. And one thing you learn in this industry, if you're learning from the right people, is kind of how the board rolls. And they know, no, we can get a receiver in the third round. Atlanta can, at 79. We can get an interior defensive lineman, quite frankly, in the third round this year. It's a weird class where they're back loaded, right. We better get our corner now, though, before they run out. And this is a defense that I've got with five interceptions last year from cornerbacks. Three of them are from D. Alford. Okay. And he's no longer with the team. So there's two interceptions at the cornerback position currently on that roster. And Atlanta allowed eight, eight touchdown passes last season on throws of 20 yards and deeper down the field. So cornerback and secondary in general had to be addressed. This is the spot to do it. Now, the 17th pick, Carolina trades up for with Minnesota. They made that swap trade up for a guy that you love and you've been planting your flag on and you don't care about the combine number, the hideous vertical journey jump 21 inches, the fact he's a different cat and he's not everyone's flavor. But this guy, his tape against Oregon and several other games that Mensch watched, and watching him at the Senior bowl, he was the best interior defensive lineman there. Take it away on Lee Hunter. This is a player I know from Texas Tech that you absolutely love.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, he's not going to win any dunk contests, unfortunately. So I guess we shouldn't draft him. I guess we just shouldn't draft him because he's an interior defensive lineman who doesn't jump well. Look at the tape. Look at the production. Todd talks. Todd talked.

[Todd McShay]

Stop pounding the table. Tucker's gonna yell at.

[Steve Mensch]

How do I not get yelled at? By the way, Tucker, you're just nice because you're mentioned.

[Todd McShay]

Mensch does nothing wrong.

[Steve Mensch]

Thank you, guys. You're doing great. Let me just say this about the tape Todd mentioned earlier. Instinctive interior defensive lineman. I used to laugh at him and not understand what that meant. And then you got. You watch guys like Kate McDonald and you watch guys like Lee Hunter who have just an ability to locate the ball shed in the proper direction and make plays. And this is what this guy does. And no, he's never going to be an elite pass rusher like some of the other interior guys in the league. But he can be disruptive in that. In that sense, despite what the testing tells you, dude just makes plays. He just is a good football player who is productive, can hold up against the run, can get off blocks, can make plays in the backfield, and can give you a little bit as a pass rusher. It's not going to be great, but a little bit. There's. You're talking about this point in the second round. Dan Morgan, general manager for Carolina. Our guy, I think he's cooking. I think it's a great book.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And again, I think Dan Morgan is doing a really nice job yet again, understanding where, just like I said with Ian Cunningham, like, I had to get an offensive tackle because of uncertainty. With Ikea Equanu.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And the right tackle position, like, I need to bring in another offensive tackle. I can only get one of those in the first round, right. Then in the second round I can get my tight end need. If I didn't get one of those. And people are probably saying Eli Stowers. What about Eli Stowers? He was awesome at the combine and he was so productive at Vanderbilt. I totally agree. Really good player. Teams are viewing him a little bit as a slot receiver, but the reason why he may not go as early, which I think this is about the spot where we'd say he should go. Right?

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And Carolina has a tight end need in our opinion. When you look at their tight ends,

[Steve Mensch]

right, it's not even they have a need. I think they want a difference maker there. They've gotten a couple guys, they have bodies. I think they want a difference maker and a guy that can really give them some speed.

[Todd McShay]

Like the average target for the Panthers tight end was 4.2 yards last year.

[Steve Mensch]

That's what I mean. They needed some. They need a guy who can threaten. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And so like they absolutely. They, they had fewer receiving yards from their tight end position and only two teams had fewer, the jets and the Bucks, receiving yards from their tight end position. So it's absolutely a need to get a difference maker and Stowers is sitting there. So if I'm a Panthers fan watching this, I'm like, yo, why not Stowers? My answer to you is there's some concern about the knee injury. And so if he starts to slip a little bit, it's going to be because of this knee injury that I've been aware of and didn't want to like make into a massive thing. But we have mentioned it prior to the draft and I don't think it's a massive deal. But for some teams, it's enough to say, you know what, they're 28 tight ends. Draft at the combine this year, only one has gone the first round. We don't get Stowers here, he'll probably be gone the next time we pick, which is at 83. But we get into the third day with picks 119, 158, 159, 200, where there's literally going to be, I don't know, maybe three or four go late third round. So at the very worst, there's 23 tight ends that were at the combine. Maybe we can. We'll choose from one of those probably early on day three. So with all that said, you take the interior defensive lineman here because, yeah, you'd like to get a receiver. I can get that in the third. I can get a tight end in the fourth. I mean, that it's just following a plan that I appreciate from certain teams and I can see the reasoning behind what they're doing.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I mean, we had him 49th on our board and I, I think that's a great. So the value matches up for what they're doing.

[Todd McShay]

All right, so the jets are back off, back on the clock. The jets had three picks yesterday. David Bailey at number two, Kenyon Siddiq at pick 16, which they didn't wind up trading despite a lot of teams trying to move up to get an offensive tackle. And then Omar Cooper Jr. They move back in to round one to get sensational day. There's a lot of building that's got to go on here, but if you tell me you get the best, most proven pass rusher, the best tight end who runs into the four threes, and one of the best five wide receivers in this class, I'm like, yeah, let's roll, man.

[Steve Mensch]

We're off to a good start.

[Todd McShay]

My guess is here it's kind of flip flopping. Let's go defense. Let's go offense. Let's go offense. Maybe we go back to the defensive side here. Both sides need an awful lot. Remember, the jets have three picks a year from now, three picks in the first round. Hopefully they don't have to use them all to get their quarterback, but maybe they do.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Or maybe, you know, so maybe they've got to use two of them. But the point is today, this is now the fourth pick that they'll make and they don't make another pick unless they wouldn't have received anything in the third round. So they don't pick again until Saturday, the third day of the draft, when they still have a handful of picks, about five, five or so picks on day two. Because I know they've done some moving around, so I don't want to pin myself down to that. D' Angelo Pons, your guy, the cornerback out of Indiana. I mean, do you want to go first? Of course I want to go first, but I just was hoping you'd give me, like an apology that he's. He's off the board right where we thought he would be. 45th player overall. What pick is this?

[Steve Mensch]

It is 51. No, it was 50. He got right into the top.

[Todd McShay]

Top 50. He made it.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Started 26 games for Indiana over the past two years. Okay. 10 games for James Madison in 20, 23. That's after that year. Signetti was like, come with me, young man. I've got a plan for you in the Big Ten. And he comes in and he takes the Big Ten by storm. This is the toughest 5 foot 8, 58 of an inch, 182 pound 29, 38 inch of an arm length wielding son of a gun that college football and the NFL draft have seen since Antoine Winfield Sr. That's who this dude is. I'm telling you.

[Steve Mensch]

I.

[Todd McShay]

Give me Denzel Boston. Sure, I got him. Give me. Give me Jeremiah Smith. Yeah, I got him. Give me Carnell Tate. Yep, I got him. Go ahead, shake your head.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, Jeremiah Smith back and forth, but he did. He was competitive in that matchup.

[Todd McShay]

Who's going to be the number one player drafted in next year's draft? That's not a quarterback. He. I just love when you look at all of his snaps. He's played wide corner and he's only played slot corner. And now the jets are going to have to make a decision. Can he play out wide at that size? And I can't wait to see what that decision is, how that decision is made. I think you got to start him there. He started 41 games in his career. He had two picks this last season. He had 62.

[Steve Mensch]

You got to start him where I'm

[Todd McShay]

playing him on the outside. Okay. I'm playing on the outside. I don't hate that until prove until I'm proven wrong. I was told he ran in the four fours, working out and training. Didn't wind up working, didn't wind up running.

[Steve Mensch]

I think he did run. He ran a blazing fast. That's right. Four threes. That's right.

[Todd McShay]

He wound up running in the four threes.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Surprised it was even better than the four. I was. I heard low four fours for him and I was like, oh, great. He ran the four threes, didn't run at the combine. That's what it was. I mean, he was so important to this defense, man, in his ability to play on the outside and what he did for. And everyone talks about Mendoza. He was the Mendoza factor on the defensive side for Indian.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. I mean, there was. Aiden Fisher was a guy.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

They're all guys.

[Todd McShay]

They're all really good guys. And Versal did all this stuff. He's the guy that played on the outside. Took away your number one wide receiver. Indiana's never had a guy like this they could know. So go ahead. I just love the thing you just said.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep, 100% true.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Steve Mensch]

Even the matchups with the bigger receivers. 100% true.

[Todd McShay]

They've got big dudes, too. They get their Nayshaan rights in there in their Minka Fitzpatricks and their, their Brandon Stevens, their six twos and six threes and six four trees. Can I say something? Now they finally have a guy who can cover.

[Steve Mensch]

We'll see how this work. I am fascinated by what, what happens with this kid's career because the tape and the production and the intangibles. Check every single box. The frame does not. And what I worry about these corners in today's game in the NFL. You talked about all these other corners that were smaller. Antoine Winfield, senior Dre Bly, Ronde Barber. These are guys that are stud corners. They have. We haven't seen this in a while and I think one of the reasons is d' Angelo Pond is so physical

[Todd McShay]

and tough and you can get away with it in college. I get it.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know if you're getting away with it in the league like you did in college, man. And he's not, it's not egregious, but I'm interested to see how they call his game and whether or not they let him compete because him matching up with bigger receivers isn't a problem from. He is going to get treetopped and these guys are going to push him around. That's not really going to happen happen. But what's going to happen is he's got to be tough and physical to do that and whether or not they flag him for that, I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

I'll take his 43 inch vertical cover in some of these bigger receivers. The best in the combine in the cornerback position in the last three years. All right, let's move on. Jake Galde. Oh, and his seven interceptions and 31 passport.

[Steve Mensch]

He's an unbelievable player and the frame scares the house.

[Todd McShay]

Jake Galde is the pick for Minnesota. This has a Vikings feel, doesn't it, Jake?

[Steve Mensch]

It kind of does, actually.

[Todd McShay]

I, I and all day.

[Steve Mensch]

Gold day.

[Todd McShay]

All day. All day. Go ahead. This is a guy you've been talking a lot about.

[Steve Mensch]

You know, it's interesting when you watch him on the tape that he plays over the slot a fair amount. This is a. And why I bring that up is because he also has the ability to rush off the edge. This is a very versatile linebacker. It's six, four and a half, 239 pounds. I mentioned the height. I think that's a great asset for him in terms of being able to look into the backfield, locate, track the ball. Then you add 4, 6, 2 speed. Very good speed. Not elite, but very good speed. Motor, sideline to sideline, run defender. He's got some instincts and coverage. This is a player that I think could have gone a little earlier and is ready to make an immediate impact in the NFL.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I. There's no question we had. I just. I question like the linebacker need at this spot. Listen, the Vikings are taking best player available. I guess, like, I guess that's. That's. That's going to.

[Bill Simmons]

If.

[Todd McShay]

If that's their thing. I'm curious to see. They've got Blake Cashman, Andrew Van Ginkel. Sorry. Eric Wilson. I mean, they're. Yeah, they don't have. I just think that, like, there are other positions that the Vikings could have gone.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree with that.

[Todd McShay]

There are other positions. That's why I'm kind of stuttering through it because I just felt like they could go in a different position, the values there. But it's not. It's not as if that it was a player that like, has been on the board. Like the Denzel Boston who's on the board for, in our opinion, like 10, 10 picks or so. But yeah, so that's. That's what the Vikings wind up doing after getting Caleb back. It's just an. They changed their. They fired their general manager. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

Right. Is this an overcorrection? Do you feel like it's an overcorrection?

[Todd McShay]

I don't know what this is because Kayla Banks, you could have gotten at this pick maybe in the second round.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

And if you didn't, that's fine, too, because what are we getting out of him? But my gosh, if you hit on him, it's fantastic. Brian Flores now gets two of these picks. Right. And I get that, but I don't want. Really want to walk into the season with Ty Felton as my number three receiver and hopefully we'll get one in the it. Pick 82 or 97. I think the safety position is one you're going to have to probably deal with with the unknown factor of Harrison Smith. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

Definitely.

[Todd McShay]

And I'm looking and I get Emmanuel McNeil. Warren is there. Unless there's some durability stuff that we weren't aware of, he's sitting there. I just. I'm not. I'm not thrilled with the management of the Vikings draft at this point. That's. That would be my biggest takeaway. But Gold is going to be a damn good football player and he's going to be one inside of this Brian Flores defense and Caleb Banks and I've read the report, you know, some of the world's greatest doctors in the Minnesota area. Like, I get all that. And if they, if, if they get him right and get him to play consistently with his pad level down and be hungry on every down, if they can get that all out of him with the 2 bro 2 foot injuries at 336 pounds, if they can get all that out of them, it's going to be a grand slam, not a home. It's going to be four guy, three guys on base, four runs, grand slam. But there's a lot of ifs there. And then this pick here, which is fine value, but it just, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. It's a new regime. So I'm just kind of getting my bearings with what the Vikings are doing. Next pick is, I guess that's it. No, no. Brandon Sisay. Yep. Sisay, the cornerback from South Carolina. If you haven't watched this guy, man, he is flat out talented. He is flat out talent. Go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

No, I think this is the appropriate spot for him because I think you're right. The talent is there. I mean, you look at our breakdown on theringer.com McShay check it out, please. Oh, yeah, check out, check out our draft guide and our reports. Check out the McShay report, too, man. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Google and subscribe, please. Yeah, we just had a breaking down all the information overnight,

[Steve Mensch]

like our feed on Netflix. Add your show to show to my list.

[Todd McShay]

Like, like, yeah, do your thing.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's go. Let's go. And we're on discourse again. I'm kidding. Are we on Discord? Are we on Discord tonight?

[Todd McShay]

Discord today and, and everyone's in there. The chat. We're not tipping picks on their Discord, though. Please promise me we're not doing that.

[Steve Mensch]

We're not here to ruin Cole Marie's draft experience.

[Todd McShay]

But yeah, follow along on the, on the this is our baby. And this is when, when, when Bill gets squirrely about me talking about putting up a Netflix Spotify the ringer big stage outside the White House lawn next year when, when you can see him trying to deflect that question because it's totally inappropriate for me to ask. The reason is because I come to him with things and he's been very gracious with us, you know, and they, and they're attacking everything and it's been wonderful. And what we're in love with now and we're in phase one of phase one, we're going to keep building this thing is theringer.com mcshay this webpage you can follow along with all these scouting reports. The big boards are up. It's where you get our mock drafts. It's where you can find the newsletter, the McShay Report, which Mensch is now a contributor, because we got them sucked in, man. We got them under the umbrella, man. So, yeah, all of that is on the ringer.com mcshay and yeah, do all the appropriate things with Netflix, but we got an interesting pick here in Brandon C. Say that I think is actually an awesome fit for Green Bay.

[Steve Mensch]

I think it's a good value right here. I don't want to overblow it. And why I don't want to overblow it is because I get it. He's a little bit of a development guy that I think has some upside as a press corner. He runs well. There's some flashes on tape that get you really excited. My concern with him is he had shorter arms than you kind of expected for a six, four foot corner. He doesn't. He didn't make a lot of plays in college. He has small hands. He only had two picks in college. And I think his instincts are a little. There's some stuff on tape. You're like, I don't know if he's seeing or reading that as well as you would want him to read, but this was a player that was considered in the late first round mix at some point because of the tools and he does have the tools to become a starting cor. He could be a starting corner in the NFL. So if they're able to get that out of them, it ends up being a great pick at this, at this

[Todd McShay]

point, looks like Mac, there's a little risk here, though. McAfee's losing his mind on the coverage, which is to be expected. Yeah, I don't know that there's any risk here. This is the cornerback run. You're the Green Bay Packers. This is a guy.

[Steve Mensch]

At this point, maybe.

[Todd McShay]

You know what I mean? I hear you, but I don't know that there's risk here. I think like if you don't get. If you don't get Brandon C. Say, then, then who are you getting? Right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And. And there's a. There's a pretty significant drop off at the cornerback. We told you this is going to be about the linebackers, cornerbacks and edges. And if you look at the last bunch of picks, what has it been? It has been linebackers, cornerbacks and edges. And so now it's a case of musical chairs because go back to pick 43. And even before that, the whole round, really. TJ Parker's an edge at going to Buffalo at 35. Colton Hood, the cornerback going. The Giants at 37. Trade and Stukes, who's a nickel safety, but he's essentially a nickel Corner Right going 38 to the Raiders. Mason R. Mason Thomas is an edge going 40 to the Chiefs. Cassius Howell, edge going to. Going at 41. Do we even cover that? The Bengals, right. Christian Miller, that's an interior defense. Yeah, we talked about the interior defensive lineman as well. But the linebackers, right. Jacob Rodriguez at 43. Derek Moore is an edge going at 44 to Detroit. Zion Young's an edge linebacker. Josiah Trotter. So the league knows if you want to get a corner, an edge or linebacker. This is it, man.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

How many offensive players now that we are sitting here with CJ Allen, the next linebacker going to Indianapolis, right. The 21st pick of the second round, CJ Allen, who was. Who Bill Simmons is devastated. He was expecting that to be a New England Patriot. How many offensive players? This is wild, man. Jeremy Bernard, the wide receiver went 47 overall to Pittsburgh. Boston went. Denzel Boston went and Chase Basantis went. I think that's it. Wow. As we're 21 picks, we told you it's going to be corners, linebackers and edge rushers. And all but 18 of the 21 picks in this round have been on the defensive side. Take the folks through CJ Allen for a little bit.

[Steve Mensch]

You.

[Todd McShay]

I think you liked him a little bit more than I did. I liked him. He's a good player. I think this is about the. This. You know what? I didn't like C.J. allen when people were saying late first, I'm thrilled with C.J. allen here to the in to the Indianapolis Colts. The Colts would give a lot of credit here to our guys. Chris Ballard, GM moves back, knows he. But he does this is. He was teetering on the edge of losing all the linebackers. This is their number one need coming into the draft. And now they get C.J. allen, but he also moves back and gets a little additional compensation to do so in a draft where they didn't have a first round pick.

[Steve Mensch]

How can you not like CJ Allen when you're such a big fan of Nicobi Dean, Another Georgia linebacker comes out and doesn't have great size, doesn't have great length, doesn't have great speed. But then you throw on the tape and what does the guy do again? Makes plays and he. For a guy who's 230 pounds. He is an absolute thumbnail.

[Todd McShay]

Eli Stowers just came off the board to Philly. We'll get to that pick in just a minute. That's a huge pick for Howie Roseman in the Philadelphia Eagles. Go ahead. And we also. We also have a trade coming in, so things are starting to move. We knew this was going to happen. This is the portion where things are going to happen fast and we're going to rock and roll with it. We're fired up. Mench is talking about C.J. allen. We'll come back to Eli Stowers. The tight end was just drafted out of Vanderbilt to Philadelphia. And the Patriots move up. Simmons was hoping it was two picks earlier for Allen. The Patriots move up to pick 23 in this. In this second round, which is the 55th overall pick. So they made a significant move up. And we'll talk about that in a minute. Go ahead. C.J.

[Steve Mensch]

allen, one of the better tacklers in this class. Instinctive, strong and violent for his size. He's okay in coverage. He's a guy who's going to get a lot of depth. He's going to read the quarterback. He's going to keep things in front of him. He's not going to be great in man coverage. He has some limitations. There's underrated as a pass rusher. This guy is a violent pass rusher who can slip some blocks, has good timing, has a good feel for how to work offensive lineman, how to attack protections. I just, I think he's a. He's one of those players you're gonna look at and be like, oh, he's not big enough. He's not fast enough. He just. He's just instinctive. He tackles well and he can get after the quarterback a little bit.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he's a starter and he's gonna walk in as you start. And then like Akeem Davis. Gaither came in, is like he's a starter and that's what. Exactly what they need. So it was a really good job by Ballard. They're moving back, getting the guy they wanted, Eli Stowers. I love this pick for the Eagles. I wondered if the Eagles, when they went Jihad Campbell last year, right. If they were going to try to move up to get one of the tight ends. It feels like the Eagles have had a contract dispute going on with Dallas Goddard for a couple, four years now, but it's really been kind of two years. They just tagged him again, Right. I believe.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, me, I don't know, actually.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know. So. But, but they don't have the long term answer at that position. But they also are losing and I want you to keep this in mind. They're losing A.J. brown to the New England Patriots. That's a deal that is the worst kept secret in the league. And so June 1, that's gonna, that's gonna wind up happening. I view this as a kind of a combination of we can utilize them because most teams are looking at Eli Stowers. We talked. He fell here because. Mild concern about knee. But you know what? Jihad Campbell had a lot of. Had a knee situation last year. They wound up taking him. And how did Jihad Campbell turn out? That's exactly what Howie's doing here with Eli Stowers.

[Steve Mensch]

Fine.

[Todd McShay]

There's. We'll. We'll deal with it.

[Steve Mensch]

Well, they must feel comfortable on some level. They've checked it out.

[Todd McShay]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's not to, to us, there's different standards for every single body part essentially for every single team.

[Steve Mensch]

Correct.

[Todd McShay]

They're chill with this and it's worked for them in the past and I'm hopeful and almost certain it will for them in the future with, with Eli Stowers. Stowers is. Did you talk about his. His, like the combine workout and the explosiveness like Eli Stowers was. That was one of the most.

[Steve Mensch]

Did I talk about it?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Have we.

[Steve Mensch]

Have you taken a breath since he's been picked?

[Todd McShay]

No, I haven't. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

I would like to talk about how smart the human being is.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

You love to throw out the combine numbers. This guy understands defense and coverages and how to get open. You can. The speed's great and he can run by linebackers on wheel routes and seam routes. And he's going to challenge safeties with that speed frame combination. All that stuff's to going good. Quarterbacks are going to love this guy. Jaylen Herz is going to love this guy because he understands how to get to pockets against coverage.

[Todd McShay]

There were four guys that Scott Goldman targeted when he said, I, I want to come on the show and talk about what we're doing, the intelligence testing. It's not like, hey, I'm, I'm wicked smart from aiq. It's like from aiq. And this is the only team, the only group that's certified by the NFL when it comes to this kind of test. Testing. Okay. And because they had to go through

[Steve Mensch]

that certification, they had to get the white.

[Todd McShay]

White papers.

[Steve Mensch]

Papers. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Published papers. And so anyway, so the point in this is he was one of four players that he was thrilled to talk about that he got clearance from the agent and it was okay to talk about it with us and Stowers. It was because of like as you said, spatial awareness, reaction skills. And honestly, if you look over time, the guys that have high grades from, you know, in terms of first, second round prospects that also test extremely well in this department, almost all of them are hits. This guy's going to be a hit. And now Philadelphia gets a weapon. And what I find intriguing, when you bring in a six 4,239 pounder tall and lean and some teams are viewing as a slot, AJ Brown is no longer gone. He's just an offensive weapon. And with a 45 inch vertical, the lower body explosion, you look at the 4, 5140 yard dash and yeah, he got overshadowed by Kenyon Siddiq running what a 439, which is absolutely absurd. But a 4,5 one is still 95th percentile for tight ends. So this is a weapon and it's a reliable weapon. And they've got to get things fixed in Philly. Man, this offense has got to get fixed. And this is someone who comes in who's like reliability and some with some upside and explosiveness. Okay, we move on. This is an important pick for a lot of reasons. The Patriots move up to go to go get a player. And if you move up from as far as they moved up, it better be a damn good football player. And so far, Elliott Wolf has done a really nice job. Right? Is that how. Is that how you would qualify it?

[Steve Mensch]

I think he's done it. I mean, over the last. Looking at the last two, we'll see what happens. But you have to give him a lot of credit for the raw, the overall roster that he built last year

[Todd McShay]

and then specifically the draft and they get an offensive tackle at the very end. I love how my stopwatch still beeps to this day. I'll tell you that story later.

[Steve Mensch]

I was like, what is it?

[Todd McShay]

I'll tell you that story later. My stopwatch that I pulled out for earlier in the show, if you weren't here to time the hug between Kate and McDonald and Bill Simmons was intrigued and we got to 15 seconds on the hug, but I think it was longer. Anyway, that's the beeping in the background. You get an offensive tackle in the first round and now all of a sudden you come and trade up to get a player who I think is. He's one of my favorite players in the entire draft. Gabe Akis from Illinois. I'VE been ranting and raving about Gabe Akis for as long as I'm sure viewers and followers of this show can remember. At the Senior bowl he came out and it was the same thing that I saw on tape from this son of a gun. I'm talking about an absolute relentless motor pursuit and toughness is what. Yes. What translates to the NFL match. I'll tell you what translates. Power, strong hands. He has the most powerful hands of the defensive lineman and the edge rusher in this year's class. You can see it on tape. We saw it all week. I gave him an 86 grade, had him ninth at the position. This position is loaded. Item is the 42nd overall player to. So to see a team in the Patriots see him start to get to the early 50s and like, yo, I'm going to get that guy at a position that I need. Gabe Akis, I. You know what I love most about him too? He's not the fastest. He didn't run a 40.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. He has this wrestling background that is awesome. He was in the state of Florida, two time state wrestling champion, if my memory serves me correct. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep, that's right.

[Todd McShay]

And he in doing so, one year he did it at 220 pounds. The next year he did it 280 pounds. That's a bad dude.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know who else had awesome background in wrestling at the edge position? Who was drafted later than they should have been? As we look back on it, Trey Hendrickson.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. You can see the leverage, the hand use, the ability to fight through. I always talk to Mensch about and it drives him crazy. You've got to advance your rush through contact in the NFL. The fastest dude. That's fine. Offensive tackles in the league will come and knock you off your course. You straight line power guy. Fine, then I'll just, I'll sit down. Men should tell you just anchor in.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not worried about the speed around the edge. Now this guy, he's going to come into you and he's going to work through you. You better be there for four quarters to fight. I want to tell you about Akkis. 112 tackles, 35 and a half tackles for loss. We talk about all these other guys who are really talented that don't have the production. 27 sacks and 7 force faults, fumbles. 4 year player, 3 year starter at Illinois. Fine. He doesn't run that well. Fine. He didn't run a 40.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I don't care.

[Todd McShay]

I don't care at all. Gabe Akis I think this is one of the steals in the draft and it was going to be any pick after 42 for me. Pumped to see him in New England. And obviously New England's had an eventful and forgettable kind of last 72 hours, but this is a player that the Patriots fans will go back and watch. Oh, my gosh.

[Steve Mensch]

Make some sense of this one, McShay.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Steve Mensch]

I hate the players.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, go.

[Steve Mensch]

Go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Wrapping it up. Patriots fans will remember this moment. Not because I almost had cardiac arrest on the air because of who just got picked after the Patriots, but because Akis is going to be a massive. I think he's going to be a big time player. I think he'll continue to get better as his career goes on. You look at what they have with Draymond Jones. They brought in Harold Landry at his. His point of his career. I think that Akis is going to be like a major part of what they do moving forward.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

Bo Kirker.

[Steve Mensch]

What?

[Todd McShay]

First player out of my top 100. These are always the tough moments, man. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

Josiah Trotter was 104, but yes.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, so two of two out of the top 100 off the board already. I told you, GM, Texas. This is going to be the most. The least. It's the least common draft in terms of the grades across the league. So buckle up and we're getting a little taste of it early. But I'll be honest with you, man. In a. In a combine that featured 28 tight ends, I actually was going back to my notes on this guy the other day. There are some things to like, but you talk about. Not like James Gladstone. I'm sorry. You come from the Rams. You come from the Rams and you're trying to make a big splash. And I get all the analytics and all the things you're doing. And I hope. I hope it's a wonderful future. But you can get Nate Bork worker in the. In. In day three, like deep in day three. I don't understand the round.

[Steve Mensch]

You could feel comfortable about getting him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah,

[Steve Mensch]

He.

[Todd McShay]

He's a four. Four speed guy. I get it. And so, like, did you plug in some of the analytics and the numbers? Is that right? No, he's a four, four shuttle guy.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's just the way he moves.

[Steve Mensch]

Listen, he flashed at the Senior Bowl a little bit. It was intriguing. There are other tight ends that are better than him. He flashed Marcel Reed, you could say. Some of the inaccuracies maybe Hurt his production as a receiver. I get all of those things, but there are better tight end prospects on the board and I don't talk to me from a need standpoint. You have Breton Strange coming back. Like, I don't understand. Is there this massive need to add. To add a tight end here? It doesn't make sense for me in terms of need. It doesn't make sense to me in terms of value. I think the player is going to be a pretty good number three tight end in the league. It's a deep tight end class. He's pretty far down it. But again, he's probably a guy that could have, you know, a. A pretty good NFL career as a depth tight end. I don't see a difference, Matt.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, he was in Nebraska first he went to Texas A and M and he had 19 catches coming into his last year in 2025. He had 20 catches this year. So he doubled up his production. But it's not like this massive production. He had 10 yards per catch. He flashes.

[Steve Mensch]

He flashes on tape. He flashed at the Senior Bowl.

[Todd McShay]

He had some big moments in big games for Texas A and M. There's no denying any of that. This isn't about Borkirker, like, not being a good enough player to play in the NFL. This is just about where they took him, is where I take exception to. To this pick. But they see something in him with his, with his length and his ability to.

[Steve Mensch]

The frame's good. I get it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Just looking at some text, it's kind of.

[Steve Mensch]

Kind of a. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It was surprising.

[Steve Mensch]

Speechless. Speechless. A little bit on that one.

[Todd McShay]

It's not speechless. It's just. It's hard because I don't want to bury the. That's why I'm speechless, because the good. Like there's. There's good plays, like we said, but we move on. And you know what? Maybe they'll prove us. Prove us wrong. But now you start to look at. At the Jaguars, right? And you start to look at. Well, we, we gave away a lot last year to move up for. For Travis Hunter, right. Because he's going to be show hey, Otani. And after one year, it looks like he's still going to play both sides and like Travis Hunter is a phenomenal football player and he's. And they're going to figure it all out and, and hopefully he comes back from the injury. But it was a lot to gamble on a player that could be something extraordinarily special. And I get that part but it's the first draft. Come in and attack it. And now you're looking and you're wondering, what are we going to get from the second year? This is our first pick for Jacksonville of the 2026 NFL Draft. And so I don't know. We'll keep an eye on it. There have been two picks that have been surprising to me so far.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And. And this is one of them.

[Steve Mensch]

So this one even more so than the other.

[Todd McShay]

But yeah, the Chicago Bears are on the clock.

[Steve Mensch]

They did outstanding by waiting to pick 25 and getting Dylan Thienaman on night one. I mean, fill a massive need with an excellent player at a good spot without having to move up. It was a great first night for the Bears.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I mean, it was shocking that he was still there. Shocking. Absolutely.

[Steve Mensch]

If not 18, then 19. I mean, when he, when he fell, it was. I'm sure they were in that war

[Todd McShay]

room and it was a perfect player for what they're trying to do. And like, they needed a safety or an edge and they needed fits. They need fits for Dennis Allen's system and they, they got a fit there and here they get another fit at the center position.

[Steve Mensch]

They do it again.

[Todd McShay]

Logan Jones, we talked about him earlier when we talked about the first center going to be off the board is going to be Iowa's Logan Jones. And this is a player that I know you liked a lot. I liked him a lot when I watched him on tape because I appreciate, let's face it, Iowa offensive linemen come in the league and they know how to play offensive line. Like, they're so well coached and some of them don't have the longest arm. Some of them don't fit the prototype type. Prototype. But they've been producing these guys since I started my career in 1999. And it's like, I don't know, they have like a 90 hit rate. It feels like, you know. Yeah, go ahead on Logan Jones, your

[Steve Mensch]

guy, he is, I mean, this, this is the prototypical Iowa interior offensive lineman. I will say this, he's almost 300 pounds and he ran a 49 40th. Yes. This guy can move. We have trade.

[Todd McShay]

We do have a trade. San Francisco is trading the 26 pick of this round to the Cleveland Browns. So the Browns are on the move up now.

[Steve Mensch]

So he has, he can move. We know that based on the combine. And if you go to Iowa and you're an offensive lineman, you know how to zone block, man, you're going to be a. You are already an excellent zone Blocker, which I think in a Ben Johnson offense is going to be really good for them. And then he. Listen, he's not the biggest guy. He has very short arms. There's some issues there when guys get into his frame, but he's good with his hands. He does a good job of working his hands inside. He does a good job of moving his feet. Iowa offensive LINEMAN I always worry a little bit about pass protection, but what we've seen from this kid in that area is that he's very competitive. I don't have a real concern with that best center on the board. You brought in Garrett Bradbury, who can start for now, but I don't think, let's be honest, he's not the long term answer. And Logan Jones represents, represents a possible upgrade.

[Todd McShay]

This next pick is someone who's been sitting on the board for a long time. Emmanuel McNeil Warren safety out of Toledo and quite frankly he didn't run great at the combine. He's a strong safety. I liked his tape a lot. Then you start comparing him with a lot of the other guys and we kind of brought him back down to the pack but still had him pretty high. I don't know. Most, most people I talked to overnight thought he would be one of the first 5 7. It'll be interesting to see if there was something else there. But Emmanuel McNeil Warren is an absolute football player and I mean that like the instincts. I told you as a tackler now he'll miss a couple but you don't know where he's coming in from. He will fly up the field. He will come in at one time he'll punch out the ball with that peanut punch. Another time he'll cut your knees out from underneath you. He's got this last second like that he does where he'll lasso your ass and he'll bring you right down. Like he does all sorts of things. But the thing that you like most is for a player who with that speed and that frame is going to wind up playing kind of near the box and doing maybe two high safety looks, he'll take the ball away. And I saw like there was the interception on the sideline in the snow game. There were some over. There was an over the head pluck and pull away. I just, I like his playmaking ability and length is so important. He only ran a 4, 5, 2, which like it's. I want to remember when I say the 40 time, okay, it's. We have Eamon worry. Last year running like it felt like a Four two at six foot nine.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, like the legend skews everything.

[Todd McShay]

And then this year, the defensive backs are blazing. Thieneman runs like a four, three, two or something stupid. He ran a four, five, two, which at six foot three and a half and over 200 pounds is a more than respectable time. But tell the folks about. More about Eamon War, if you want.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, war. You mean.

[Todd McShay]

Sorry, McNeil War.

[Steve Mensch]

I think you kill it. I mean, this is not a, this is a guy that you wrote up. This is one, you know, great value at this point. Could have gone lead first. It's not. I, I'm trying to look at there and see like in terms of need, it's not one that we identified. But. But I don't care. Like, Cleveland just needs to get better. And you're getting a guy who's going to set the tone with his physicality. He has the frame to be a great player at that position. I, I think it's a good pick.

[Todd McShay]

And, and I compared it going through my report like Animal Planet, man. Like the predator hunting his prey.

[Steve Mensch]

Listen, you're a weirdo, but like, it's, it's a. When you hear it, it's a good thing.

[Todd McShay]

It's a great thing. And he also, and I Talked about the 206 tackles, 11 for loss, a sack, 13 pass breakups, five interceptions, eight forced fumbles in 35 games. They're getting a playmaker. And my gosh, could you know, Cleveland with what they have up front and some of those guys in the front seven, Bringing in a guy who can actually make plays is pretty exciting. If you're a Browns fan. It's a really good start to this draft for Andrew Berry and the Browns. I think we can all agree on that.

[Steve Mensch]

Wow.

[Todd McShay]

This is my guy, man.

[Steve Mensch]

It was my guy and then he became your guy.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, then take him. No, you take. I gotta go to the restroom. I'm telling you, I'm giving you a three.

[Steve Mensch]

I have to go after you.

[Todd McShay]

So go three pick range. But I got to talk about Marlon Klein after Marlon.

[Steve Mensch]

Clyde.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

Thank you.

[Todd McShay]

Marlon Klein is intriguing because everyone knows Marlon. We're not going to the GM series. Men just going to hang in here.

[Steve Mensch]

It's going to get quiet for three minutes.

[Todd McShay]

Not going to get.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm going to start talking.

[Todd McShay]

There's a player that's. Here's what happens, what I do for fun. A team drafts a player. That player is a player you've evaluated. It's no different than when you see Tucker will get in your ear. And he'll say, marlon Klein, who's drafted by Houston Texans, pick 27 in round two. And Marlon Klein is a tight end from Michigan. You can draw on that information, right? And then you just dive into Marlon Klein.

[Steve Mensch]

What if I talk about whether or not I think the sphere will be a better place to see Fish than Hampton Coliseum?

[Todd McShay]

If you need to do that. So long as we don't have to throw to a GM series, that's better. It would. Yes. All right.

[Steve Mensch]

I got in my back pocket if I need to.

[Todd McShay]

All right. Marlon Klein was one of the most intriguing, honestly, was one of the most interesting evaluations that I did. And why do I say that? Because he's known as this like, long, 6 foot 6 blocking tight end at Michigan. And then I put on the tape and I'm like, yeah, he does that and he's a good blocker. I don't want to get carried away. Like, he's not at the level of like Sam Roush or some other blockers that you will talk about in this draft. But he's a really good blocker and he's highly competitive. But what I saw on tape, the more I watched, because you don't get many opportunities, right? Underwood's got to improve. Let's leave it at that. If you're a Michigan fan and you're

[Steve Mensch]

watching this spring game.

[Todd McShay]

No, not good. Well, the tape wasn't good and every one of their receivers, including Klein, like, the opportunities missed were wild. But you can see there's. There's. He's playing in the bowl game and he, there's a, there's a seam route that he's running against Texas. And you see like, there's this shake to him as I'm watching like 12 tight ends because this tight end list wouldn't end. But I'm watching him all in a row. He moves a little different and the length he has and the ability to go up and the toughness he has, he doesn't care. He doesn't. He gets whacked and pops right back up and he's kind of like here for it. And I'm watching this cat and I'm like, okay, I see a little more athletic. And now we get to the combine and it's, you know, it's got the length of 32 and 3H arm length. He's got a 36 inch vertical, which is really, really good. 76 percentile. He runs a 4, 6, 1, which is the 81st percent I've go over the last three years. The titanium. So now I get a 6. 6 receiver who runs a 4, 6, 1 who's got some lower body explosion.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

There's some traits that I really like in him, and I see on tape that there's these flashes. So I was like, I think he's a top 100 pick, and that's where we had him. So this is. Is it slightly earlier than I thought? Yeah, but, like, not that much earlier. So I love this pick for Houston. I. I think it's a. I think it's a great decision. Let's bring in a guy that can block right away. But also. Absolutely. There's more in that tank. It's frustrating, some of these quarterbacks. Sometimes it was frustrating to see what meat was left on the bone as a receiver for some of these tight ends and wide receivers. So I'm intrigued by Marlon Klein. I like this pick for Houston.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I don't like that you guys keep going. I don't like that you keep getting vindicated for the kind of, well, I'm

[Todd McShay]

going to take a restroom break for it.

[Steve Mensch]

Kind of the risky moves you made. So you take all the time talking about Marlon Klein in Houston.

[Todd McShay]

I'll wait for there to be a.

[Steve Mensch]

Thank you.

[Todd McShay]

I'll wait for you.

[Steve Mensch]

I really appreciate that.

[Todd McShay]

I'll wait for the. Oh, this is perfect.

[Steve Mensch]

Am I allowed to talk about it?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, you can talk about it. Mensch. The people. The people. Hey, be nice to mention here, okay? He's got three minutes. You can clock me. He's got three, by the way. He says three minutes.

[Steve Mensch]

If this man is back at 10, I'll be surprised.

[Todd McShay]

The pick is in. The Titans are on the clock. The pick is about to be in. Talk about the Titans. All right, well, actually, you know what? Before I won't leave. Okay, There you go. The picks in. We're gonna do. I was gonna say that Houston is talking about their depth chart. This is a nice, nice addition for them, but the Titans pick is in. Announcing the 60th pick. Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

In the 2026 NFL Draft. With Jeffrey Simmons on stage announcing the Tennessee Titans tag take. I'm yelling. I'm yelling, right? The Tennessee Titans take Anthony Hill Jr. From Texas. Let's get into it a little bit. Obviously, we. We thought that the Titans could have been targeting a linebacker at some point in the draft because we felt that Sunny Styles was a real option at 4. What's interesting to me about this is he's. No one's Sunny Styles. He's a different cat. 6, 4. I mean, 230 runs the blazing fast 40 time Anthony Hill 62238 ran a 451 which is a really good time 37 inch vertical. We're talking about another player who's got a lot of of skills, a lot of talent. Not on the stunning styles level but still a lot of skill. He can give you something off the edge as a pass rusher even at that size. He's instinctive. He has a, he has a really good feel for how to attack protections. Like I talked about before, he closes well for from depth when he rushes from depth and when he rushes off the edge. Three year career he had 17 sacks. I think in coverage sort of like we talk with these other linebackers. He's not great when he has to change directions quickly but he can turn and run with guys. What's interesting to me about this player is to get into the run defense a little bit. He's really a downhill guy. He had a top three 10 yard split among the linebackers of the combine. You see that on tape. When he is able to trigger quickly he makes it very difficult for blockers to get into his frame and also that that quickness translate to explosive power. So he can, he can pop guys when he plays downhill. When he had. He does fit with the Titans. I mean he fits with the Titans because I think they're going to use him in the correct way where they're going to put him on the move because if you ask him to stay flat footed in read he doesn't have the biggest frame. You know he's, he's got good size at 238 but I think when you can get into his frame that's where he's not nearly as effective. So something to keep an eye on that, that aspect. Rangy guy though. He is a sideline to sideline run defender and I gotta be honest with you, we have the next pick to announce. Max Claire from Ohio State who was my. He was the number two tight end on my board coming out going to the Rams. I mean I don't know if the Rams have ever seen a tight end they don't love. This probably doesn't make a lot of sense from a need standpoint but they use so many two, three tight end sets. If you're not going to get that wide receiver that you wanted here, you're going to get another guy who's a pass catcher. You know we keep talking about how they're going to have these three receiver sets but they do a good job of identifying the Guys that can make plays for them in their system. So you don't necessarily need that slot that you might have targeted here if you felt like you had a better option. Antonio Williams from Clemson would have been interesting. But with Max Claire, the reason I liked him so much is I thought that he was for Taller Guy, 6 4, 246. I think he can get in and out of breaks more than people realize. He catches the ball well. He had. I remember when he was at Ohio State because he transferred from Purdue. I was really tired. Tech talking about Max Claire. He had a drop on his first opportunity to make a play for Ohio State. I think after that he settled down. Everything got back to normal. More productive than I think people realized. Oh, no way. No way. Max Claire. The Rams take another tight end.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Rams get another tight end.

[Todd McShay]

There's a trade. I was. I was told by Tucker to tell you there's a trade carried on. Let me. Let me get my earpiece.

[Steve Mensch]

I was just talking about how much I like Max Clarem. Why I thought he was my number two tight end coming to the year. A little underrated after the catch. I think he can make the first guy miss. Good move blocker. Not necessarily great in line blocker, which you would expect for a guy who weighs 246 pounds. Maybe they can fill out his frame. But if you're using Claire.

[Todd McShay]

So.

[Steve Mensch]

So to the Rams.

[Todd McShay]

Claire went to the Rams. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Who I said have not seen a tight end they don't like as a need standpoint. But speaking a little bit to that, when you build a roster the way that Les need has built his roster, you can take a quarterback at 13 and you can take a tight end here. Even though it looks like that might not be one of your biggest needs.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I mean, staffer would probably like to. Here's the deal. I think the two receiver. The receivers they wanted in round two went. Yeah. So they, you know, go back to the drawing board and try to figure that out. And.

[Steve Mensch]

And

[Todd McShay]

yeah, that's an interesting. It's not. Not a pick I would have expected there. But Max Claire is another. I mean, Max Claire can get down the seam and Max Claire can. Can create after the catch a little bit. So another one. Yeah. Rotate them in. So the Bills. The Bills are now on the clock.

[Steve Mensch]

My turn.

[Todd McShay]

Second. Yeah, go ahead. Second to last pick of the. Third to last pick of the second round. Let me get reorgan. Couldn't bail out of here fast enough. I am plugged in. Here we go. You can go around the. It's. It's an absolute circus in here right now. You got to appreciate it, right? There he goes. There goes the big fella. All right, so we're back on the clock here, and the Bills are up. The Bills so far have done some moving around and now they're utilizing some of that capital to get back. You've got to appreciate what Brandon Bean is trying to do. And the. They. Let's see, they wind up trading out of the first round. They had a pick early in the second round, right? TJ Parker. That's what it was. So TJ Parker is their first pick, which we absolutely love of. And they. They kind of started that second tier edge rushing edge rusher run that we expected to see. I'm intrigued with Buffalo, right? I'm intrigued with Buffalo. I didn't hear you, Tucker. What do you got? Okay, the best availables, right? Yeah, you can throw that up right now. I'm intrigued here because we, we got. Left guard is a need for Buffalo. We've got wide receivers in need for Buffalo. I'd love to see another weapon here and I know what they've done in the off season. I recognize they brought in DJ Moore, but Khalil, Shakir, Joshua Palmer, like, I would love to see another weapon. I look at the board right now, we got Chris Bell, who would be awesome after the catch. He's coming off the knee injury, but ahead of schedule in recovery. Antonio Williams is one of the best route running receivers. I don't know that that's the exact route they go because he might be a slot in the, in the NFL and they've obviously got Shakir. Zachariah Branch is another slot. So if it's wide receiver here, I'd have to guess it's a guy like Chris Bell who's a bigger power. He gets the A.J. brown comp, right? If it's not wide receiver, left guard Emmanuel Pregnon would be a perfect fit. In fact, if you trade up to this spot, I'd like to think it would be for pregnant and we're about to find out in just a minute here. But the Bills already got their edge rusher, so you cross that off the list in terms of. Of what they need and yeah, I mean, there's two things right? With Josh Allen, there's two things we've got to be able to protect and we got to add more weapons and we've already gone defensive side of the ball with that first pick here in the second round. So now let's, let's either protect him a little bit better and be able to line up and run the football. But mostly let's protect Josh Allen better or let's get him a weapon. And so I just kind of went through who those guys are. It's interesting. Just going back. Oh no, this. Here comes the selection. They don't go either. They go completely against what I thought you got Emmanuel pregnant sitting there. I don't like this pick. This is the third pick I just don't like of this draft. David Igbosun, who's a, who's a fine cornerback at Ohio State. And there's a lot of positives to him. But I'm just going to start with this. I don't like this pick from Brandon Bean. I think I just told you. Honestly, I get not taking Chris Bell coming off the injury and some of the other, you know, there's some maturing that has to be done. But we got an Emmanuel pregnant, I just think would have been a perfect fit to bring him in. And dozens, not a handful, dozens of other prospects that were higher ratings. But you bring in a scheme fit on the defensive side and Igbinosin, and let's go through the positives of him. He is a tall, long, physical corner who can, who has to play because of his, as you see here, like he's one of those guys with his length, he has to play in zone coverage. He's none of the. That you look for. And quite honestly, he improved so much this past year with the penalties that there's. It showed a lot of promise in a scheme with Matt Patricia who brought out the best in him. Okay, but two years ago the, the story with Igbos is yeah, he's like a, he's a second round talent, but the inconsistencies when, when the ball's in the air. And also there's limitations in terms of the, of the coverage. But as a press zone, some cover three, some like he's in Buffalo, he's going to wind up, you know, fitting what they're looking for. But honestly, like they brought. They. You draft Maxwell Hairston last year at corner too. I'm just telling the folks right now like this Brandon Bean, this is an annoying pick from him, if I'm being honest.

[Steve Mensch]

Who do you take?

[Todd McShay]

They took Igbo. No, who. I get it. Like we. Talent wise, you can see the second round, right? Yeah, but, but from a player standpoint, I just, I thought that he was able to, I thought you were going to be able to get him late in the Third early in the fourth because the penalties used to be a problem. He's got the 44 speed at 6 to 189 pounds. And. But the. When the ball's in the air, I'm not convinced that problem is completely solved. I think Matt Patricia brought it out. The best in him.

[Steve Mensch]

Feels a little like helmet scouting. You're seeing an Ohio State corner and you think, I know that they don't do that. I know that's harsh.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he's got a physical style. Yeah. You cut down on the penalties. I told you about the penalties. 16 in 2024 to five in 2025.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. But watch the tape.

[Todd McShay]

And he's still. Yes. And so I'm a little shocked from this Buffalo team who did a great job in the first round

[Bill Simmons]

with their

[Todd McShay]

first pick in the second round. I already talked about TJ Parker. This is a player I think you could have got late like. And he's not a ball hawk either. I would get it if he's grabbing. He makes mistakes, but he takes the ball away. Most teams I talked to on Igbosan said could go late.

[Bill Simmons]

Third.

[Todd McShay]

We got him early. Fourth. And that's that. Yeah, that's the. So the Bills are clearly. And I guess it's interesting to me, like, at what point. At what point are we going to show, and I get it, that a lot of other teams have done this where they draft and draft and draft on the defensive side. Because let's get the ball back to the one guy who's the difference maker. Okay. And that's Josh Allen. But at some point you'd like to think that they would like, they need a left guard. They need another receiver. I don't care what you say, just my 100% agree. And I was telling the folks about we got Chris Bell on the board. The other receivers. I can wait till the third. I get it, but they don't. Do we have their trade details or where their picks are? I can find. I guess, but they didn't come into the draft with. Or. They pick again at 91, but they must have traded up. I got to figure out where the picks are for the Buffalo Bills, but at the end of the day, their first two picks are on defensive players. And I just. I was expecting to see a little bit more action on the offensive side to start this draft. I'm not going to sit here and rail on it for any more minutes than I already have. Igman, Osman will be a good player and Harrison, I get like the injuries you brought In D. Alford, C.J. they brought in C.J. gardner, Johnson. I recognize where he is. The. Cole Bishop is the other safety. So I mean, I guess Christian Benford, like obviously you're. You've got to upgrade that spot, but I don't know that this is the guy to do this here. It feels like, I mean, this is the final. So does it trade up for this too? Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

It feels like that cornerback run spooked him and on their board, this is the guy that they want. But I can tell you that I'm not every team, but a majority of other teams I talked to did not have him. This guy this high.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I think that's fair.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

There were high, high hopes for him and he just never materialized.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So now we have the Chargers on the clock and the Chargers. The Chargers had an awesome pick in the first round. I was thrilled to see the Chargers go out in the first round and have a player fall to them. It's fitting because it's the Baltimore thing, right? The Ray Ravens thing. Yep. And Joe Ortiz, after a long, long, long, long time lieutenant doing it the right way, grinding to the top, comes over, takes over. The Chargers GM job with Harbaugh told an awesome story. If you haven't seen the interview that we had with him and, and kind of the. Some of that Ravens, I don't want to call it luck, but like we do the right thing, we're patient. Someone's going to fall to us and more often than not that he does. And that's exactly what the Chargers did sitting there and getting a key message in the first round at pick 22 overall. Now they come back in the second round, very end of the second round, second to last pick in the second round. And they get Jake Slaughter, the center from. From Florida, who Max Ian Outshore said should have been the offensive line. He should have won the award of the offensive lineman of the week at the Senior bowl when he was announced. So what do you got on Slaughter? Mensch is the.

[Steve Mensch]

They.

[Todd McShay]

We know this coming in. It was interior offensive line, number one need and it was then like Edge and a couple other positions for the Chargers and they. Right so far they've, they've done a great job with that.

[Steve Mensch]

For Slaughter, I thought. I think this. It feels a little early for him. But I also think you're. You're going to get a guy who can potentially start at center early in his career. And the Chargers had a clear mandate here to improve their interior offensive line. They're going to get their tackles Healthy, they're going to improve their offensive line. You have one of the best quarterbacks in the league. It makes all the sense getting into the player specifically. He's experienced, he has great awareness. He's going to make sure all the line calls are right. He's never going to be out of place. He's quick, he's agile. He's your classic positional blocker. At the position where he's going to wall guys off, he's just not going to get a lot of push. He's really good. Like a lot of other centers, he's really good when he can. Cal block with a guard up to the second level. Does a really good job of punching guys onto his guard so he can get up to the second level where he's a little bit better. Gonna struggle a little bit when you give him that big nose tackle right over him. That zero technique guy who has length and power. He's not the splashiest pick. I get that. But you're getting an experienced SEC center who has a chance to be a very solid middle of the league starter for. For years. He's going to be a good player for a long time.

[Todd McShay]

Time. Yeah. I mean we had him. We had him as 139 overall. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's higher than I thought. But I also think that when you fall in love with that position, that position, and I'm sure Harbaugh fell in love with this guy at that position and has a level of trust and so, you know, you go for it. And again like this. This class is pretty wild when you get into this range of the draft.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Because fifth rounders are third rounders for this team and third rounders are fifth rounders rounds for this team. But I'll tell you one guy, I'll tell you one guy who's a second day prospect to me all day long. And this one's going to piss you off. Bud Clark. Thank you. John Schneider. You, you kind of whacked me because I. And by the way, reports came out that Seattle. Let's watch Bud Clark. There were two players at the Senior bowl on the defensive side that every single day scouts were buzzing about. That's Kyle Lewis, the linebacker from Pittsburgh in this game, Bud Clark. I remember standing there with the defensive back coach who was working with him and I'm saying, why is he giving more attention to Bud Clark? Why is TCU's getting all the attention? Because he sees something special in him. And I noticed that as the week Went on and he was utilizing him in different ways. And as I watched Bud Clark at Senior bowl and I came back and studied more of his tape, I fell in love with Bud Clark the football player. He is a versatile playmaker at 6 1, 188 pounds. He ran a 441 and had a 38 inch vertical. So we checked check those box boxes at the combine. He just like from the versatility you get working in the slot, moving around the instincts that you get in terms of jumping the ball early with his, with his eyes on the quarterback to understanding route combinations and. And he's a flat out frigging ball hog. 15 interceptions, 35 pass breakups over the past four seasons. He tracks the ball and locates it over his shoulder, going up for it as well as wide like some good wide receivers in this class. And that's going to get you in the second round. And guess what? The Seahawks want those dudes because they got a pass rush out up front. And let's put some, some cats back there that can sniff it out, seek it out and go take it away so we can get it back to our offense. That's what Bud Clark is. Bud Clark is a takeaway machine.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, he's a real, he's a really good value at this point in the job.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And he was, I'm telling you, he was. It was all week long at practice at the senior.

[Steve Mensch]

I would say that that Senior bowl performance, especially when you're watching the tape, the goal line, when he was down on the goal line working one on one, I was blown away by how effective he was in that drill in terms of his balance, in terms of being physical without being grabby. On tape, he's a little more grabby. He had some penalties that concern me, but that performance at the Senior bowl opened my eyes to the player. When I went back and watched the tape again, he was a little grabby. I thought there were some tackles he missed. But at this point in the draft, you're getting a guy who can be a starter.

[Todd McShay]

First pick of the third round as we transition from round two to round three here on day two. If you're watching on Netflix right now live, we appreciate it. This is the maiden voyage for us doing covering the draft on Netflix and we appreciate everyone who's tuning in. If you want to follow along on the chat, we're on Discord. And if you want to follow along on the website where our databases with all of our scouting reports, please do. It's theringer.com mcshay. Now, I'm told we may have a fascinating pick that might not surprise a lot of people, because if you don't, let's not forget, I think lost in all of the shuffle of everyone coming up in the streets and congratulating me on having ty Simpson going 13th. No. What was I joking? What was lost in the whole thing of the surprise of the Rams for most people that Ty Simpson was a pick at 13 was the fact that that Arizona didn't get its quarterback. Man, the Cardinals were banking on getting Ty Simpson. That's why it was so important that Les need and the Rams kept it quiet. And so when they, when that happens now, they're kind of like, oh, we got to regroup because they were going to trade up from pick 34 ahead of the Jets 33, who were never taking Ty Simpson, by the way. That's a nugget. If you want a nugget, there's a nugget. The jets were never considering. Tyson Simpson is my strong understanding and rightfully so. It's all about 20, 27. So third round, first pick, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Arizona Cardinal. Is this right? Believe the. Is it the third round, first pick? Yeah, this is pick 65 is the Arizona Cardinals. This one's fascinating to me. I don't know who else they like. I only know the quarterbacks out there are Garrett Nussmeier, Carson Beck, Drew Aller. By all accounts from people in the league. Those are going to be the next three quarterbacks off the board. My guy Cole Payton, your guy Taylor Green.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't expect either one of those guys.

[Todd McShay]

Probably going to be day two. I don't, certainly don't expect. You can make an argument if you like Ty Simpson, you like Garrett Nussmeier, but he's coming off the injury and you want a guy who maybe has a chance to tie. Because here's what I would do if I'm Arizona, theoretically, in theory, I would want a guy that you can bring in and literally like, yeah, Jacoby Brissette is going to start a bunch of games, but I want to find out if I have anything in this guy so that I know how serious I have to get in the 2027 draft class.

[Steve Mensch]

Right?

[Todd McShay]

So that leads me to, yeah, it could be Nussmeyer. It could be Carson Beck. I don't think. I wouldn't take Drew Aller in the first four rounds. Where are we talk? We got Carson Beck is the pick. Fascinating.

[Steve Mensch]

I heard that yell.

[Todd McShay]

I'm sorry, I get carried away. First pick of the Third round. So first pick of the third round, Carson Beck comes off the board. Carson Beck. Man, this is a long, windy road road for Carson Beck. Carson Beck started his career at Georgia, right. If you go back and we get the whole history of it, but let me give you. Let me give you the cliff notes of it. He plays really well early in his career at Georgia. He is a big, tall, looking the part quarterback with the physicality and like stand in the pocket as a pocket passer. He starts his career at Georgia working the play action. Things are going well. They're loaded around him. Right. Winning a lot of games. And so the background is he's kind of climbing the ladder, playing well coming into the 2024 season. Had he played well. NFL scouts top top 10 pick.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, that's. That was the first quarterback off the board. 2024 season does not go as planned. Some point, Carson Beck kind of loses that team. And then he gets injured late in the season. And then Gunner comes in, Gunner Stockton comes in. And this guy, Gunner Stockton turns out is really talented. I get it. They're ready. After the injury and kind of some of the stuff going on, yeah, you can take off. And this is Georgia. Georgia doesn't let a guy who's a top 10 pick. Georgia doesn't go a guy who's a top 10 pick get out of Athens at the quarterback position. If there wasn't some stuff there, then there's that off season between 2024 and 2025, right. Where Carson Beck. It's all the stories and all the TMZ and social media. It's the two Lamborghinis bought. Two Lamborghinis stolen. The Cavender twins dating, cheating on a Cavender twin. Did he, did he not? Like, everything you don't want as an NFL general manager for a quarterback prospect to have going on in his life. Life is just about there, right? But then he gets to Miami and you're thinking, yeah, great, he's going to go down to Miami. This. How could this end poorly? But it doesn't end poorly. Carson Beck started to get reports in like August. Remember men.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And we're like, oh, Carson Beck's like, first guy in. Everyone says first guy in last. No, Carson Beck has, like, picked things up quickly. Carson Beck isn't making his receivers work for the ball like he used to. These receivers and the offensive lineman and the defensive lineman and the safeties and the linebackers and they all love him. He's found a home here. He actually loves football. Again, Carson Beck is Rejuvenated. Like, this is the Carson Beck we were talking about as a top 10 prospect. Okay? That's kind of this windy road that Beck's career took. And then he comes and starts the season, and they're winning games, and they're winning games and he looks good. And remember, they beat Notre Dame. And you saw like, Carson, he looks. Looks a little more nimble. Like the weight of the world's off his shoulders, right? And so all of a sudden they start winning games to the point where, like, could they make a run? Is he back in the top 10? Then they lose a couple games and he does what he always does. And Mensch called it, he's like, if he. If he has one game with interceptions going to be multiple, and he did in the middle of the season, then he starts calling out, it's this person's fault. It's that person's fault. All this stuff happens. But he kind of did it to get everyone to realize the bar is different and you better be accountable for what you're accountable for. They go on to win the rest of the games of the regular season. They may squeak into the College Football Playoff. They make a run in the College Football Playoff. In part, not large part, but in part to him protecting the ball, playing within the system. Carson Beck does not have a big arm. Carson Beck is not mobile. So those are two. As a pocket passer without a big arm, it's good enough. It's good.

[Steve Mensch]

The downfield accuracy is more of an issue than the Armstrong.

[Todd McShay]

I don't think it's a great arm. Okay. The downfield accuracy is not where it needs to be. But he's tough in the pocket. He's improved. And you cannot right now, as an NFL general manager, put enough value into starts and big game starts. And this guy has won a lot of big games and he's improved and they're taking a chance. Arizona is the third round pick. A reasonable spot to take Carson back that he can come in and maybe push for some time and maybe prove. Prove a lot of people wrong and become that number 10 pick that he was projected to be back in 2024. We missed a bunch of picks.

[Steve Mensch]

Why not?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, totally.

[Steve Mensch]

At this point.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I love this next pick.

[Steve Mensch]

This is your guy. We were talking about him just before the draft and how you dumb.

[Todd McShay]

Onyudem is the pronunciation that I'm with. Even the pronunciation didn't do the print. But onyadom, he and Regis, I watched them as I was going through the stack of defensive tackles. The Broncos get him. He's going to be a perfect fit there.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Three technique with discipline, has some length, pass rush upside. I liked Regis, the other, the other guy at Texas A and M, but I. But this, I knew that Onyadom was going to be drafted earlier because he's got that pass rushing upside. And you look at Denver and this is their first pick of the draft, right? So, no, this is their second pick of the draft. I'll look that up. But Onya Dem, he's long, he's penetrating interior defensive lineman. He's got this blend of first step quickness, he's got length and he's got a motor. And when I watched him, I just saw a player who's like where he's supposed to be and also disrupting on top of just where he's supposed to be. He's like, assignment sound, consistent effort doesn't have this like big, thick lower. But these Texas A and M cats, man at defensive tag, they just do the right thing. They play with gap, like gap. They play gap sound. They play with toughness, they play with a motor, and they might not have great production. He had three sacks this past year, but he had 48 tackles. He had nine tackles for loss. So right away, the Broncos, in that scheme, three guys gap, three techniques, one gap, get up the field, penetrate, disrupt. He's a perfect fit.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I hear you. We just before the draft, you said watch out for this player. Yeah, but I want to talk about Kieran Crawford.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I. He's one of my favorites.

[Steve Mensch]

But please, please, I've talked great, great value here. First of all, right? About where we expected him. We gave him an early third round grade.

[Todd McShay]

I like where he's taking. Where he went.

[Steve Mensch]

He went to. Sorry, he went to the Raiders. And I knew that. I love this pick. I. I just love this pick because I think they need someone to take some of the pressure off of Max Crosby. This kid's still developing. He's not quite there in terms of the refinement, but he is violent. He is a violent guy. He gets into you a little bit explosive. And we just talked about high motor. Guys. This guy is an absolute relentless pass rusher that gets thrown around a lot. I think this guy, when you look at his mindset with the viol and the tenacity, not the longest arms, but a good frame at 6, 4, 253 pounds at this point in the draft, getting this kind of an edge. I really like that they get stooks

[Todd McShay]

in the second and Kieran Crawford in

[Steve Mensch]

the third and Mendoza.

[Todd McShay]

I know, I mean, kind of overlook it, but like. Absolutely.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, but they are there. This is a spy Tech's having a

[Todd McShay]

nice run, a really nice run. These are two players I would love to have on my football team because one takes the ball away, the other pressures the quarterback to play, put the ball up to be taken away.

[Steve Mensch]

And obviously they have a lot of needs, but they're addressing those needs without having.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, but let's look at those needs, man. They bring in Toron Johnson to play for nickel. They're hoping that Darien Porter, the third round pick from last year, improves. Eric Stokes is at the other cornerback spot.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, so now we bring in trade and Stukes, who's going to. Who's going to become that nickel.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And provide an upgrade and take the football away when he's ready to do so hopefully right away way. Okay. We brought in Quiddy Pay. We brought in Quay Walker and Nicobi Dean. So we've shored up the interior of our defense in terms of the linebacker spot in the 34 scheme. We have added now two guys to go opposite Max Crosby, who we didn't even think was coming back when we made a lot of these moves. So Crosby's back, Quiddy pays in house. And I want to be able to use Kieran Crawford as a, a DPR as a rookie and you absolutely can do that now turn them loose, let him go crazy. Yeah, that's it. Don't need more from him as a rookie and continue to try to develop him. So while, while we brought in Kirk Cousins and he's going to start some games early on as we get Mendoza ready. And we brought in Connor Hayward to play fullback in front of Ashton Jinty. As we adjust to now this Kubiak scheme that needs a fullback back, we needed more receivers, but we brought in Naylor with Trey Tucker and Besh. So receivers coming pretty soon. But I love what Spy Tech has done.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, me too. And I missed the Quiddy pay signing. I do like that signing. I just don't think he's. I don't think. I don't think they could have been done there. They needed more.

[Todd McShay]

Totally. I think that this is a brilliant. This is a good pick. Philadelphia.

[Steve Mensch]

Philadelphia.

[Todd McShay]

It's a perfect Philadelphia pick and Stout isn't there. Who knows if they can rally Stout back,

[Steve Mensch]

lure him out like they did with what's his name in New England. Yes, Skarnicky.

[Todd McShay]

Skarnicky. Dante Scarnecki.

[Steve Mensch]

I think they got him to come back at one point.

[Todd McShay]

Great poll by you, but this is. This is a Philadelphia pick through and through. The Eagles take Markel Bell, who is the biggest man in the entire draft at 6 foot 9, 346 pounds. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

Arm length, not an issue.

[Todd McShay]

What is it, 30, 36 and 3/8 of an inch. Was it the longest, like, ever at the Combat?

[Steve Mensch]

I think it was fourth, but it was up there. It's up there.

[Todd McShay]

Fourth is pretty good to say. His. His. His tape is intriguing.

[Bill Simmons]

It is.

[Todd McShay]

It ain't consistent all the time from an NFL tackle. Stuff like he got the job done at Miami, but this is a guy who, like, he transferred in from. From Holmes community college in 2024. You talk about Mario Cristobal and the gang being able to find and develop offensive linemen. That's what this. That's what this is all about. Six, nine, actually, and one quarter inch, 346 pounds. I stood next to him. It's one thing when I stand next to Mensch, folks, and I won't make us both stand up now, but, like, when I stand right next to Mench and you look, it's. It's 6, 1, 6, 5, right? We won't get into the weights, but you stand next to 6, 9, and £346. It's like, are we from. Are we from the same. Are we the same being. You know, and he plays. He plays like that at times. The problem is it's so. It's a city block. It's like a $23 Uber ride to get around this guy so he doesn't have to be the quickest and all that stuff. But you. You're our offensive line guru. I want to hear from you. Whether it's stout or what they have in place with Philadelphia, how much work does this guy need? And when Lane Johnson's time is up after this year, or whenever they need, can he. Can he develop into this? Their. Their guy?

[Steve Mensch]

I think he can.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Steve Mensch]

I do. Like, there's. There are ugly snaps, there are ugly reps. The tape is a little bit up and down. If you watch the positive snaps, the first, you're like, this guy. I'm, like, super excited about this. And then you see that sometimes being the tallest guy on the offensive line is. Is a little bit of a detriment because it affects your ability to sync both in pass protection, so you lose your power base, and in the run game, so you lose your power base. Those things happen with him a little bit.

[Todd McShay]

Bit.

[Steve Mensch]

I think he moves better than you would Expect for a human being that size. And it reminds me of when Orlando Brown Jr. Came out and everyone was like, he's just not a good enough.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I remember that.

[Steve Mensch]

He's not a good enough athlete, but the frame and the size and the strength were enough for him to overcome it. I don't think he's as nasty as Orlando Brown Jr. Was coming out, but I see a lot of the same things. I think he's worth a swing here, man. All the top guys are gone at offensive tackle. This is a dude I would take a shot on right here. I do worry about the offensive line coach situation because it's not the same that it was when Stout was there. And are they going to be able to continue that tradition of Joe Douglas

[Todd McShay]

is actually working with. With Stout last year? I'm not sure what. Who's there? I don't want. It could be the greatest young up and coming coach ever. I actually don't know what the situation is. But, yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind because for so many years, like, yeah, we're going to draft. We can draft a guy, develop them.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And he took it for granted. Exactly. But now the only reason we're bringing up is it's a major change in what was like the best offensive line coach in the NFL, you know? Oh, boy. You want to announce this pick?

[Steve Mensch]

Can I announce it? Are we all ready to announce this right now?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

Chicago Bears go ahead with the sixth pick in the third round. No, fifth pick in the third round. Apologies.

[Todd McShay]

Don't want to.

[Steve Mensch]

Don't want to get that wrong. Take Stanford tight end Sam Roush.

[Todd McShay]

Is he any good?

[Steve Mensch]

Dude, by the way, you're. I can't believe I'm gonna give you credit for something. Your tight end rankings are looking pretty good.

[Todd McShay]

The Titans, except for low Kirker. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

But the tight ends you like have done pretty well so far.

[Todd McShay]

You know what pisses me off about this? I actually underrated Sam Roush.

[Steve Mensch]

I would tell he's not oatmeal man. He's a hungry man.

[Todd McShay]

Breakfast. I know. Don't you dare tell me what Sam Roush is and what Sam Roush isn't while everyone was laughing at me. Sam Roush with his sort of alligator arms. And he runs funny, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I told you the Sam Roush is going to win a Super Bowl. I can. I. You watch this guy. I watched him at the Senior Bowl. I couldn't wait to get back and watch more tape. I knew he was a good blocker I saw some athletics. That's what I said to you. I said, I see some athleticism, some different stuff in him that I didn't expect to see another tight end a victim of the atrocities of some college quarterbacks. I won't mention any names, but my, like, good Lord in heaven above, if he had Fernando Mendoza throwing to him or Dante Moore or Arch Manning or, like, the sky's the limit. 6, 6, 267 pounds. You want to know why I called him Oatmeal? And this was before he went and ran a 4, a 4 7, and had one of the best RAS scores. RAS scores of all the tight ends for his height, weight, the combination of his athleticism and all those traits. Because I just trust him. I just trust him as a blocker. I trust him that I can use him mental in line as a Y, or I can bump him back to the wing. I can flex him out. I trust he's going to run routes and be where he's supposed to be. I'm not saying he's twitchy and all those things. After the catch, he's not. But he's one of those guys who's where he's supposed to be. And he's got more juice in him. And I saw it at the Senior Bowl. And then he shows up at the combine and he has a 10, 6 broad jump, which is 92nd percentile. And I want to remind you, with the RAS score, it factors in your height, your weight, weight, and all those different things. He has traits that can develop. And he came from an offense that didn't develop. Him with that quarterback, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Here's the other thing I like about him, man. Oh, I had so many where I've got this list. You know who. His great uncle. He comes from a family. It was so deep, I didn't want to write it down. All down here.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay, story time.

[Todd McShay]

I'm not going to get into all the stories because where did he wind up getting to? Drafted 49ers. It didn't even matter with. No.

[Bill Simmons]

The Bears.

[Todd McShay]

The Bears. Oh, hey, Tom. I know Tom's watching. My Chicago Bears fan. You're gonna love this guy, by the way.

[Steve Mensch]

Loveland, Comet, and now Roush. Yeah, it's a pretty good group.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Do you think. You think the. You think the chef's not going to whip up some different. Different recipes with this, with this look,

[Steve Mensch]

with these ingredients, with.

[Todd McShay]

You know who his great uncle is?

[Steve Mensch]

Who? Who?

[Todd McShay]

Merlin Olson. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

Do people know who Merlin Olsen is anywhere?

[Todd McShay]

Probably not, but he's a hot. He's a, he's a Pro Football hall of famer. I think he was an actor.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't think the Discord chat is full of people who know who Merlin Olsen. Yeah, he was an actor right at the end.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, he was an actor. I've got a list somewhere of all the Every single person in this young man's life is something special in athletics like volleyball, soccer, basketball, football. But like every. His family tree is wild, right? To look from the stock he comes Sam Roush is going to be like I just, I love the fact that it good a good on the Bears, good on Ryan polls to figure out how to evaluate some talent around here, you know. Now this is a great pick for the Bears.

[Steve Mensch]

How about the tight end run, by the way?

[Todd McShay]

Pretty well.

[Steve Mensch]

We now have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 that have gone since the 22nd pick in the second round. Started a little earlier than maybe we anticipated, but now it's, it's rolling.

[Todd McShay]

You got nothing else you want to add on oatmeal? Sam Roush?

[Steve Mensch]

I just, I think it's ridiculously calm Oatmeal. Like, this is a dynamic player who can do almost everything in the game and you name him after Mush, which, by the way, no one ever wants.

[Todd McShay]

No one ever wants. You're empowered by David Chang, by the way.

[Steve Mensch]

Check out our episode the Michelin Star Chef. Yeah, I am empowered by that man.

[Todd McShay]

I'm telling you. You wake up in a cold morning and you're a lumber. You're going like lumberjack jacking and you got to cut down some wood and you're out in a cabin somewhere. You wake up in the morning, you got to fill your loins. It's.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, that's the weirdest thing you're saying.

[Todd McShay]

But it's like, what do you believe? Like, what's going to get you fueled for the day? It's my tight end that I trust and I rely upon. And he's not eggs Benedict and he's not some fancy omelette with all you know. And it's not something. It's not a, it's not a pancake. He's sure as hell not a waffle. He's sure as hell not a crepe. I don't need a crepe at tight end. I don't need something that gives me a little spurt of energy and it feels good and it tastes good. I need some substance as I rock and roll out into that field. And as a quarterback, I need oatmeal. You can throw in some protein if you need. You could throw in some bananas. You can throw in some. I like it with butter.

[Steve Mensch]

Butter.

[Todd McShay]

Pour a little cream on, cold cream on top of it. Just a little touch of it. Let the butter melt. Brown sugar, raisins, bananas. That's what Sam Roush is.

[Steve Mensch]

You lost me on loins.

[Todd McShay]

Romello height was drafted by the San Francisco 49ers. Tall, lean, looks like a shooting forward, not a powered power forward. Okay. He was the edge rusher. Opposite and men, she's going to tell you all about him in a second. Opposite David Bailey, who is the number two overall pick. Highly productive player. I think drafted in about the right spot. Maybe a touch early, but this is a San Fran team that needs speed off the edge.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, it's a little early with some of the other edges on the board, but it's clearly a need. He's a little older. He's almost 25 years old. He's like Todd mentioned, he's lean. He's six three, 239 lb. Rounds, 32 and a quarter inch arms. This is not the frame that we're looking for. So how do you justify him going here? Well, he's quick, he closes well. And I think the biggest thing that you like for his game is at that height. He really bends well. He can really shave the corner and get to the quarterback. Productive in college, like some of that might be because he played off opposite David Bailey. I think that probably helps. That entire defensive line is insane. You're not going to worry about. You're not able to worry about a Ramona height as much as the other guys on that crowd group. And that kind of concerns me. I, I like the player. I don't love the player. I mean, the production's good again. Benz well, the frame's good. I think there's enough red or enough concerns to take him a little bit later. I think early day three would have been a better range for him.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, I mean, we had him at pick. We had him ranked as prospect 109.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Anyone in the like from here to 120.

[Bill Simmons]

It's.

[Todd McShay]

It's not.

[Steve Mensch]

But look at.

[Todd McShay]

We have egregious. But yeah, go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

Joshua Josephs is still on the board. Barham from. From Michigan, still on the board.

[Todd McShay]

That's the guy that, that I, I would.

[Steve Mensch]

Those are two guys, you know. Yeah, those are the two guys I would have definitely taken ahead of him.

[Todd McShay]

But I love this pickup next for Washington and I love it for a lot of reasons and the name is Antonio Williams, the position is wide receiver and the school is Clemson. I think Antonio Williams, Williams is among the top two or three best route runners in this class. I think Antonio Williams, outside of running out of his cleats sometimes is one of the, is one of the more underrated prospects in this entire class. Antonio Williams has this suddenness about him as a route runner that I appreciate and I get it. Like he's not the biggest guy and he's. He checked in at 511 and a half and 187 pounds. But he's not the smallest. Right. He ran a 44140. He had a 39 inch vertical. And the two things that I remember watching on tape that were different from him this year. Right. I saw an aggressiveness after the catch like that aggressiveness is accompanied with a confidence of plucking and already looking like where it is up the field, field. And then the other part that I really liked about him this year is I just, I, I saw a guy who like played with an overall confidence in terms of initial play breaks down, find a soft spot, get back to my quarterback. Those two things were different in his tape. And what he always had was the production. What he always had was the great route running skills. He's at 2.21 yards per route run over the past two season. Really, really good. And is up near the top of this year's draft. His production dipped last year compared to 2024. But who in Clemson, offense or defense, didn't? But he improved. I told you he improved in those areas. And he also missed. He also forced 14 missed tackles and he averaged 5.3 yards after the catch for his career.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So while he's not like the ultra. He's not. He's not. We're going to see Zach Branch get drafted soon. He's right. He's not that. But my gosh, he had a drop rate of 1.8% this past year. So he just didn't get as many opportunities and he got dinged for this. I think he comes in now in this offense at Washington and it begs the question like he's starting right away, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Oh yeah, he is the thing I would, I would just kind of to, to back up your point a little bit, reinforce it. Clemson has some talent at wide receiver. He might be the third most talented wide receiver.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Height, weight, speed, all that. Yep.

[Steve Mensch]

He's the best wide receiver.

[Todd McShay]

Oh no question.

[Steve Mensch]

I really believe that when he got hurt early in the season last year, it derailed the season for Clemson, not having. He is such an important part of what they do and his ability to give the quarterback, you know, a safety blanket and make plays at key times that I think it really derailed their season when he wasn't in the lineup.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. So I love that with a team, obviously you've got a young quarterback in Jaden Daniels. This is a critical year for him going into year three. Right. And this is a critical time for to put some weapons around him. And they spent the first pick as we expected that they could if he was available. Sonny Stiles sitting there at number seven was a driver, but they had to come back and they've got to get a wide receiver and a difference maker. Terry McLaurin has got to play to the level this year and be and stay healthy. They've got Luke McCaffrey at slot who. Let's hope he becomes that guy. I like Jalen Lane there. It's interesting though, man. Like I was told, David Blau, the new offensive coordinator, he's looking for physical, like, you know, like six, two, six. Those kind of guys, they don't get that trail and burks. I guess right now they brought in Diamond Jefferson, they brought in, sorry, Diami Brown and Van Jefferson. I try to combine those two names, so. And they had 10 different receivers who caught a pass last year, but. But like Debo's. No. Nowhere to be found. He doesn't seem like he's coming back. I just. I think this is a team that desperately needs a reliable route runner and a guy who can create some after the catch. Just like they got in Antonio Williams. I think he's going to be a starter right away, and I think it's going to be one of the best things that happens to Jaden Daniels because I just believe in Antonio Williams.

[Steve Mensch]

I really do. I'm with you, man. I think it's a great pick.

[Todd McShay]

All right. After Antonio Williams, Takario Davis to the Bengals. Love that.

[Steve Mensch]

It's a very interesting, but a great pick, I think.

[Todd McShay]

I love it.

[Steve Mensch]

Do you want to tell us why?

[Todd McShay]

Because he's one of the tallest, longest corners in this year's draft and he's been.

[Steve Mensch]

So why is he available here?

[Todd McShay]

He's been through some ups and downs. He transferred. I don't think he played as well at certain times in his career when he. As he did at certain times. I think it's been interesting to watch. Right, the tight end, the tight end. Oscar Delp went one pick later to New Orleans. Let's come back to him in A second. I promise you that one's fascinating too. Takario Davis has got this length and playmaking ability about him and he's got, he's, he's got a history of. And he's a lot like you got Pristock, you got Stukes.

[Steve Mensch]

Like they have a, they have a type. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And it was Arizona to Washington with, with my guy, Jed Fish. Jed Fish. Sorry.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

So there's like this whole group of these big tall defensive backs and so Cario Davis early in his career was like pegged as a first round prospect. He's going to develop into that. Right. And he never really did.

[Steve Mensch]

Led the PAC 12 and passes defended as a freshman.

[Todd McShay]

Right. And so Davis. But I always like, I never would give up on Davis because I see 6 foot 3, 6 foot 4, 194 pounds. He's got these long ass arms, almost 33 and a half inches, runs a 441 and so certain teams that want to play that cover one, the press like they, they are like they have a need for this kind. So there's no chance he's getting out of the top 100. I recognize it up and down, but like the 50, 50 going up and playing the ball in the air. I just, I, I've always thought that for some reason I've always believed this guy could be a really, really good starting cornerback in the right scheme. I think this is going to be the right situation for him. But I've always felt like something's going on where he didn't quite get to that and hopefully he lands in a spot where he, I mean he was

[Steve Mensch]

banged up last year and I think if he wasn't banged up you would have seen more of. I think when Jet Fish left. I think you're right on about that. That year at Washington, I mean the year at Arizona before he went to Washington without Jed Fish there.

[Todd McShay]

I mean we.

[Steve Mensch]

This is a common theme with some of those players, by the way.

[Todd McShay]

Scario Davis. Yeah. Yep, yep.

[Steve Mensch]

And so now he ends up. I thought the tape was good. He just was banged up last year.

[Todd McShay]

Jed Fish is obviously a quarterback coach, offensive mind. That's how he. But he brought his staff with him and so that and the lack of continuity, it seemed like it affect many, several players and we've seen in both last year's draft and this year's draft. But we like that pick a lot. We got two more picks to get to and they're both big name prospects. The next pick off the board that we have, we haven't talked about yet is one that I love. It's interesting. Oscar Delp, when I say is a different cat, is a different cat. He's not made for everyone in terms of like the, you know, the what you're getting. And there's been some frustration in certain things. But Oscar Delp is an underrated talent who you've always kind of liked Mensch. And I feel like I always felt

[Steve Mensch]

they should have used them more. I didn't understand whenever Georgia used their tight end, I thought that's when they were most effective.

[Todd McShay]

And New Orleans, here's the deal with Oscar Del. You don't get utilized a whole lot. And so six five, 245 pounds. With all this athletic ability. His workout at the pro day, he wearing what, like a 44 in the four fours. He wearing the 4 4. Digest that. A four fours. At six foot five, 245 pounds, he can catch. He's got this straight line burst to him. He's. I don't. He's experienced as a blocker. He's competitive, but my gosh, he's inconsistent. Like, there's just a lot of ups and downs to him. But I think there's so much more to his game. And I think this is a theme with a lot of these tight ends this year.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I hear you. It was interesting to me because I liked him. I thought he was going to go farther down the board because the productivity wasn't there. Then he has a great workout. Then it comes out that he's not for everyone. This was a player that I felt was yo yoing. And ultimately this is where he ends up.

[Todd McShay]

But now you got Tyler Schuck, right? And you. And you've got. You got Kellen Moore scheme. And what I'm watching from him, he's running, doing a lot of what the tight ends do, but working like across the field like crossers, right? And they utilize him sometimes just like block, block, block, get out, right? And like when he schemed into space, he's an absolute threat. And there were a couple times on tape, I remember running down, it's coming towards me. I forget which game, but he's coming towards me on the tape. But it's his right side. The offense is right side. They got him the ball and he turns the corner and it's like.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And it's hard to find guys who can run after catch like that with the acceleration.

[Steve Mensch]

We could run a play action bootleg and hit in the flat. And all of a sudden you have a 20, 24.

[Todd McShay]

And Kellen Moore's kind of good at that. Did you see him with Dallas daughter?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep, yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. A guy who's got not a great blocker but experience in line can do some of that stuff. Release frame, good frame. He, Kellen Moore wanted this guy for Tyler Shuck and that's why I really like this pick for them.

[Steve Mensch]

And they have Jawan Johnson and Noah fan. I, I think this is a good addition. You're, you're trying to find, you added Jordan Tyson the first round. You're trying to find guys that can make plays for your quarterback. I, I think it's a good ad.

[Todd McShay]

I think it's a really good ad. All right. Your guy Fields. Malachi Fields senior boss drafted.

[Steve Mensch]

I feel like you're on a little

[Todd McShay]

bit of a run here. Thank you. Malachi Fields. This is where I, I was. You got to remember Malachi Fields at Notre Dame, like a lot of Notre Dame receivers don't have great production, right. He comes to the Senior bowl and what I saw is a big, tall, towering wide receiver that everyone else could see. But what I saw in his route, run route, running nuance really impressed me. The tempoing, the leveraging. What do I mean? I mean I'm not going 100. When, when you don't have great speed and Malachi Fields does not have great speed, you better tempo your route so that, so that your fastest looks faster than what it is. And you also got to do it keep defensive backs off of like off of rhythm of what your speed is. So all of a sudden when you burst into that top speed which isn't super fast but it feels faster as a defensive back and then you leverage your routes because you're a big bodied receiver, right? And Malachi Fields is exactly that, a big bodied wide receiver. Leverage your route so that you get a defensive back at an angle or position where he can't come back through your frame and you, your frame happens to be 6 foot 4 and a half, 218 pounds with 32 plus inch arm length. And yes, he ran a 46140, but I don't give a shit.

[Steve Mensch]

No, I don't care either.

[Todd McShay]

He's a six, four and a half, 220. This is a legit. This isn't like Chris Brazil who's going to get drafted a little Raider a little later. This is a guy who. Absolutely. And we got another one here who's coming up after Fields, who I'm referring to to Douglas, Caleb Douglas. Caleb Douglas from Texas Tech who is a tall, long, lean, vertical Receiver. This guy is physical, but he's also kind of, I think can run some routes. And so I like the player a lot. He does a beautiful job of attacking and tracking the football in the air. That catch he made, it was the one Senior bowl catch, but we saw a few of them. Now the analytical people will tell you this game guy absolutely sucks. Fewer than 2 yards per route run in his career, which isn't like that is a stat that drives the analytical people crazy. 26% of his career targets were contested and his open target rate is one of the worst among the draftable receivers. This is what the analytical people are telling you. And that's. I get it. And you know what, A lot of times they're right. And we'll get to Caleb Douglas in a second. So he's going to have to be. Malachi Fields is for the New York Giants. He's going to have to be an analytics beater. Yeah, but you think Jackson Dart's not going to like having this 6 foot 4 wide receiver. This is a great pick by the New York Giants.

[Steve Mensch]

There are shades here of Miles Boykin who the Ravens drafted out of Notre Dame in the third round.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

And Boykin was faster. I think Fields is a better receiver. I think Fields is a better receiver prospect coming out. But it's clearly something that Harbaugh values. He wants some size at the wide receiver position and he gets that kind of player in Fields here.

[Todd McShay]

All right, we will get back to the Caleb Douglas. I basically gave you a quick run rundown of who he is. I'm surprised he got drafted that early, quite frankly. I thought that Reggie Virgil was a much better receiver coming out of Texas.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

We can get to that in a little bit. The Pittsburgh Steelers though just came on the clock and just made a selection in front of their hometown. And in the Steel City they drafted a quarterback from Penn State in Drew Aller. And so to not ruin the excitement of the moment, I will let Steve Mensch talk about Drew Aller, his traits and how he potentially could fit with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's start with the frame. This is a big frame quarterback with a absolute cannon foreign arm. If this was the 1980s, you'd be in love with this kid. The mobility is not great. He's we, we say this, he actually scrambles better for a guy who's not a great athlete than you would expect. He can pick up some, some yards as a scrambler, but within the pocket, the mobility. He's kind of a heavy footed dude. Todd will Tell you that he cannot hit receivers on outbreaking routes. I do think.

[Todd McShay]

Not outbreaking route. Let Todd handle what Todd's going to say.

[Steve Mensch]

All right, fine, Fine. I think he's a little more accurate than Todd does. I still think it's an issue. He's got to be more consistent. And honestly, this is a player that is coming off an injury and didn't really get to finish his college career, but kept. Kept waiting for him to elevate his game and get to another level. It felt like he might do that during the playoff run last year. It never really materialized.

[Todd McShay]

So we're talking about a guy with

[Steve Mensch]

all kinds of tools. When you look at the frame and the arm strength and again, experience, which we've talked about all night, this guy's an experienced college football player. That's going to be one of the positives. But there are some red flags that would cause him to drop this far.

[Todd McShay]

He's big. He's got a strong arm. He's strong, he's tough, he's competitive. He's all of those things. He is not mobile. There's no changing that fact. He is a. It's weird to. He's weirdly.

[Steve Mensch]

What do we say? He scrambles well for a guy who's nothing.

[Todd McShay]

He's competitively athletic. Like he. For so like he'll. As a scrambler. He'll take off and he like, he'll have a. They'll break a tackle and I'll just stay on his feet. He's like, it's. He's got this like balance and coordination. He's a coordinated athlete who's just not any sorts of sudden and mobile. Okay. He won a lot of games. I. The first question I would ask is. And I. I know leadership at the top was the problem for all of this. And I'm talking from the highest ranking within the athletic department to the head coach this past year here. But you're the quarterback. What the hell happened? Okay. That would be where I would start. The second part on the field that I'm concerned about is and mention alluded to. Took me a long, long time to figure out what. What the issue was. And the issue is the results are. The result issue is anything going away from him in cutting, like, where he can. If he has to visualize it, he struggles to hit it. Okay. In cutting comebacks got jersey facing. He'll drill that strike man. And he'll do it with. Okay. Wheel route, which is a visualization throw. You have to have touch and you got to have a Feel right. Kind of running back comes out and he goes up that seam. Seam route. You gotta really be able to feel where to hit that. Cause it's a tough. It's a tough throw. But then also by post corners, nine routes you'll see on ESPN or NFL Network, they'll show you some, like, deep throw. He'll. He hit a few. Yes, but I'm talking. If you dive into this tape, like I dove into Ty Simpson's tape and told you, it's a different story than what the national media is telling you. You. There's something wrong with the visualization. I'm talking swing routes I've done. I don't. I can't remember a quarter. Quarterback missing more of those. Now, does this mean Drew Aller. Drew Aller can't be a good quarterback? No. And I recognize we have another pick here with Chris McClellan. Interior defensive lineman, but perfect Green Bay Packer. No, but Drew Aller needs some work. Now, I'll say this. Mike McCarthy is a really good guy for him to go with. And that situation with Aaron Rodgers, and he's going to get pushed, right? They got Will Howard, who I actually, I like more. I take Will Howard over Drew Aller, but they see something in a man and I'm like, who am I to say they can't? And quite honestly, like, if they can fix that, if Mike McCarthy thinks he has the tools to fix that, I'm all for it. I just haven't seen him it. And I'm not like, I can't coach that. So I'm worried about that. And I'm also worried about what happened.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, again, I see the talent, too, again, the frame, the arm strength, all of that. And you've done a good job in this draft of getting the offensive tackle, Maxi and Autor. You've gotten the wide receiver. I forgot who they got, but they got their slot wide receiver. I don't.

[Todd McShay]

I honestly, I don't have a problem with them taking him here. I swear to God I don't. And I know I'm not the biggest Drew out. This is the third round. You have a quarterback void. You have a Will Howard sitting there.

[Steve Mensch]

You can't say that. You cannot say that. If you're saying that you would take

[Todd McShay]

Will Howard over him, I can say I know this league long enough. 26 years. I better take hacks when it's appropriate to take hacks in the third round. I wouldn't take Drew Aller. I would have taken Cole Payton. I would have taken Cole Payton all day long. Cole Payton has more upside. Cole Payton can help me now in certain ways if I need. If I would like for him to be utilized as a runner coming out of North Dakota State, the quarterback. So my pick would have been Cole Payton. I get the Drew Aller thing because they must think that they know how to fix what has been going on with Drew Aller, and they must think that he has everything in him. It's what McCarthy's looking for. So all, by all means, go take. And this is the right spot in the draft to do it before someone takes it. Someone takes them in the next 30 picks before you come back on the clock. So I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem even with them taking him because the quarterback position, Mensch, is so specific to what you're looking for. So what's. What's a great prize to me might not be a great prize to Mike McCarthy. What McCarthy's looking for isn't what McVeigh is looking for, and it's not what, you know, a lot of the. The Shanahan Tree guys are looking for, the McVeigh stuff, but. And even those guys can have different shades of the same color, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I hear you. And I hear that he fits McCarthy better than he might. Other schemes I like.

[Todd McShay]

You can't look you.

[Steve Mensch]

If you took a hack on Will Howard, right? You say you got to take hacks. They took Will Howard in. In what round? They took him in the six. Six round.

[Todd McShay]

Six. Okay. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

So they get him in the sixth round and you got Mason. I mean, I don't know. You take him in the sixth round. Let's just stay there. You take a hack. Has he worked out?

[Todd McShay]

I don't know. That was last year.

[Steve Mensch]

I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

I don't know yet.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Can we maybe see if that hack worked out before we take a player in the third round that you don't really feel like you don't really love?

[Todd McShay]

This is a new. This is a new head coach, and maybe he thinks that hack is not what he needs.

[Steve Mensch]

I guess it's fair. I don't know.

[Todd McShay]

That's what this is.

[Steve Mensch]

I think you find players that make an impact in the third round, and you have to be like. Like we say with the running backs early, you have to be in a position of luxury to do that kind of a thing. And I don't think the Steelers are there. I think the Steelers could have gone in another direction. Got A player that's willing, that's ready to help them now. And I think they've had a good draft so far.

[Todd McShay]

Far. I love Jeremy Bernard and I love

[Steve Mensch]

Maxi Notch are two of my favorite players in the draft they've gotten. But now we're taking another middle round quarterback.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

And a guy you don't really love.

[Todd McShay]

No, I. I don't like Drew out. Yeah, I'm cool. I'm cool with him. I graded him in a place where I knew someone else could take him. That's essentially how I did it. But that doesn't mean he can't be good.

[Steve Mensch]

No. I hope he is.

[Todd McShay]

McCarthy see something? The fact that I'm actually pushed. I'm defending this.

[Steve Mensch]

I know. You surprised me.

[Todd McShay]

I don't. I don't. I. Drew Aller would never be a quarterback that I would draft, period. But Mike McCarthy sees something in him and that's why they took him. I agree with your argument.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I also know this board really well. Yank getting Drew Aller in the. For whenever their next pick is. Unless it's in like five, ten picks.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I get it.

[Todd McShay]

So. So if. Yeah, it makes sense for them, it wouldn't make sense for our organization. Let's put it that way.

[Steve Mensch]

Let's get him a call.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. Douglas. I mean, we got Miami fans. You want to talk about Caleb Douglas?

[Bill Simmons]

Not really.

[Steve Mensch]

I think you hit on it. I mean, he's a downfield guy.

[Todd McShay]

Why reframe?

[Steve Mensch]

Like, I don't even think he was the best receiver on his college team. I think that was Reggie Virgil. I think that's just too early.

[Todd McShay]

I'll tell you what, he does have speed. Yeah, that's. No, I'm just saying. And so there was a lot of things I didn't like about his tape. But as I scroll Way down.

[Bill Simmons]

Way down.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, no, I understand how low he is. I actually was going through the bottom of the top 300 recently to make sure everything was in check. He ran a 4, 39 and he catches the ball really well. And he goes up and he gets. And he like there. But he's not physical. He's lean. He's six, three and a half. He's 206 pounds. Remember I was talking about Malachi Fields? I said there's a lot of receivers here who have very good speed who are tall and lean. He's one of them. Fields has his thickness, but he's not super. He's not fast, but he plays a different little bit of different game. But here's the deal. Miami fans, you've got a guy who can do two things really well and Malik, Willis, scramble and extend plays, which I hope he's able to do and stay healthy this year and drill the ball down the field. And this guy with his 439 speed in 15.7 yards per catch and seven of his catches went 50. Seven of his 53 catches went for touchdowns. That's what he's going to be. He'll probably be your. At best he becomes a number three vertical receiver, but at worst he's like. He's a four vertical, right. So like that. But was it too high to draft him? In my opinion, yes. What's interesting about it is John Eric Sullivan, they don't draft him in the first round. They get no problem taking day two hacks. They like tall speedsters, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So let's see how that plays out. It's going to be interesting to see. But what's also interesting about it, to be quite honest with you, as I'm washing through this thing in my brain as we go, is that's. That's slow down in Miami and that. That's like an extension of the. Of the McVeigh and you know, this guy's anything but physical, competitive run after, after catch.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So, yeah, we'll see how it works out.

[Steve Mensch]

I think it's more fascinating. I think that if you're looking at that kind of receiver, why not Chris Brazil? And that says to me that there are concerns about Chris Brazil and that's why he's falling.

[Todd McShay]

All right. AJ Hulsey won. Just an absolute thumper dude. Way plus character goes to Indianapolis to pick 14 in the third round. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

With the instincts to play the ball.

[Todd McShay]

Zachariah Branch, I want you to get. I want you to get Halsey ready for me right now. Chris McClellan will start. We're going to work in reverse order and get you caught up. The 13th pick of the third one round is Chris McClellan. I did a. I told you I went through. I was ripping through all these interior defensive linemen. This was like the dog days of. Of. Of early spring, right? And. And I'm watching Nick Barrett from South Carolina. Daryl Jackson, Caleb Proctor, the. Both the Texas A and M guys. Halton Regis from A M. Durant. There's so many Benny Xavian, Harris, Bryson Eason. I was watching all these cats, right. McClellan was interesting because you keep seeing a flash or two of this pass rush ability, but. And you see six sacks, which is more than a lot of these other guys had. And you see 87 tackles and 14 tackles for loss and eight and a half sacks over two seasons. He's got this appealing blend of six foot four, 313 pounds and a 505 40, which is perfectly suitable. Right. Everything with him though, starts with leverage. If you can Green Bay get him to play with leverage. It's not the extreme of Banks, but he's not the extreme talent of Caleb Banks. But it's his very similar viewing experience where he could rush the quarterback and not many of these guys from Kaden McDonald to Peter Woods. So like there's not many of these guys who actually can rush the quarterback. He can. That's why Green Bay drafts him at pick 13 in the third round because they see some pass rush ability and they've had some pretty good history of developing those front, those front guys. So I like where he winds up in Green Bay a little early, but like I had him in that late third, early fourth range. So no problem with that. Take us through Hall. Seeing the fit there with the Colts. I like it. I'm curious to hear what you have to say.

[Steve Mensch]

Listen, he's not the greatest, this athlete. He doesn't have the greatest frame. He's just a shade under six feet, short arms, 30 and seven eighths. Ran a four, five, two. None of that is gonna really pop out to you. But what I love about him is the production both in terms of a run defender and his instincts as a playmaker. And let me just. Let's get into the run stuff a little bit first because he does miss some tackles, but this dude is productive. Second most solo tackles in the Big 12 when he was with Houston in 2023, he. He had the third most solo tackles in the SEC last year. He makes a ton of plays. When he was a true freshman at New Mexico in 2022, he had a 24 tackle game. He is a maniac in terms of chasing the run. His angle's got to get better. He's. It gets caught up position every once in a while, but it's not for a lack of toughness. This guy's a downhill thumper then. He has eight interceptions over the last two years. He has a really good feel when he jumps up and kind of that robber coverage underneath of reading the quarterback and finishing when he gets a chance to make the play. He's a really solid value at this point because I think he's a guy who's going to turn might be a number three safety to start his career, but I think it will turn into

[Todd McShay]

a starter early on and we recognize everyone who's watching live with us. We're keeping you up with the picks. Jacoby Lane was just drafted, so we had back to back former USC wide receivers. One of them most recently in Zachariah Branch played at Georgia after transferring from there, who was teammates with Jacoby Lane, who was the pick at 16 overall in the third round to the Baltimore Ravens. Branch went to Atlanta pick earlier though. And I want to, I want to talk about this. Zachariah Branch was one of my favorite. He was the. He, he was all satellite team. He was the number one man on my all satellite team. I love these guys. You know, I love slot receivers. I get, I get grossed out by a couple things. I get grossed out by people who are so lazy in their evaluation of players that they don't go back and study the USC tape to realize that he's not a gimmick. So stop putting gimmick by Zachariah Branch's name just because he's 58 and 558 and 58 of an inch and 177 pounds. If you know what I'm. If you know how to evaluate a talent and you see his ability to get in and out of breaks and you see his lower frame and how strong strong he is and you can tell that this young man can actually run routes. Just because he was used as a gimmick in certain situations doesn't mean he's a gimmick. So stop saying that. The other thing that just makes me frustrated is this off the field thing, man. Now he's painted in this bad light when like if you really do some diving into that report. No, he's a good young man. Everywhere he's been, people, people in the building love him. No issues with that. Now he's undersized and he's going to be a slot. And Zachariah Branch in Atlanta, I think, I mean they've got to get the quarterback situation figured out, obviously. But we talked about it earlier and I thought that they should have taken a wide receiver. While I'm thrilled, I didn't think they should have taken a wide receiver. I thought there was an opportunity to. I love their. Remember we said Ian Cunningham in the first draft recognized that they were. Who was their pick earlier was an interior defensive lineman because they knew that they were going to run out or maybe it was a linebacker. Whatever position it was, it was the fact that he was going to run out. But now they come back in the third. We said he can get one in the Third and he got one that's a perfect complement to the big tall down the field, former USC wide receiver in Drake London. Right, right. He's going to come in and it's going to be laughable with like Johan Dotson, like, and even Zacchaeus, who's a nice role player. Branch is going to come in. He's going to make a big impact right away. You look at the two seasons at USC, 78 catches, 823. You know, the first rounder, remember him, Makai Lemon, who went, he outperformed him when they were both freshmen there at usc. He winds up transferring this last year and he's absolutely electrifying when he catches the ball in and he doesn't even need space. It's like, like he's like the last couple years. I don't know if there's a guy and pound for pound, this guy's one of the strongest guys in the entire draft. He is like, I'm telling you, the lower body strength, the ability to absorb side contact, maintain his balance, not look after the catch in the return game, hand him the ball, screen game, all this stuff. I love him. I love Zachariah Brown.

[Steve Mensch]

I know you do.

[Todd McShay]

And it made me so pissed off that there was that negative news because somebody didn't want him on a curb somewhere. And I'm sure he was probably given attitude and I'm sure there was probably a reason that he was giving attitude because it probably had been pent up over some stuff. But the end of the day, to put anything negative about this young man from a character standpoint is an injustice. Okay. And so Atlanta gets a great player, a great young man, and I'm excited to see what, what happens with his career there when they get the quarterback situation figured out and hopefully Michael Pennix is able to get him the ball. I'm done with my rant. You can take the next picks.

[Steve Mensch]

No, I like it when you back up your guys. Yeah, it's good. Let's go to Kobe Lane, another wide receiver from usc, as you just mentioned, pissed.

[Todd McShay]

Albert Regis. Sorry, Albert Regis just got drafted. The other interior defensive lineman, I, I, I just railed on Gladstone from Jacksonville from their first pick. I like this pick. Pick later. The only reason I say a piss because I, I wanted to put in the top 100 and I didn't have the, the onions to go through with it. Go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay. We good?

[Todd McShay]

Yes. Okay.

[Steve Mensch]

Thank you. Jacoby Lane from usc. Baltimore clearly needs a receiver. I think they needed a bigger receiver. You're going to get that. Jacoby Laney, six four, 200 pounds, he ran a four, four seven, 40 inch vertical, oozing talent. I think a lot of people coming into the season thought that he was going to be the first receiver from USC off the board and could potentially go in the first round. When you look at that talent and he is a big play guy, he can create after the catch. He can stretch the field vertically. So why is he here now? And the answer to that is he doesn't play quite to the size. He's not great in contested situations. In 50, 50 situations, he's not a aggressive, tenacious blocker. You want him to be a little more physical. He's going to a place in Baltimore where they're going to demand that of him and hopefully he's able to. They're able to bring that out of him. But when you're looking at talent, this kid could turn into a steal. If he can get into being a better route runner, if he can get better in consistent situations and he becomes a better blocker.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I think you said it. Well, there are just some other receivers.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

That are like Bryce Lane, Ted Hurst. Ted Hurst, my guy. That's. That's the problem there. But you know, Baltimore, they have a great track record of drafting receivers.

[Steve Mensch]

Is that serious?

[Todd McShay]

No, I was joking.

[Steve Mensch]

They got Zay.

[Todd McShay]

Zay's good.

[Steve Mensch]

The last one they got is. They did.

[Bill Simmons]

They did.

[Todd McShay]

I'm just. I'm messing around for the. As great an organization as they are,

[Steve Mensch]

it's not been a great list.

[Todd McShay]

It's not a great hit list. At wide receiver Albert Regis, I'm not going to go on a long rant. Everything I said about Oneidum is similar in terms of. It was just refreshing because I'm watching all these interior defensive linemen. Some are tall, some are long, some of them have this quickness. They have great workouts. All these different things. Right. But. And some of them are penetrating. They're all over the place. But a lot of them are raising their pads. They're not gap sound. Then I get to Regis and it's like a coach's clinic. Where'd he get drafted? Let's talk about that. Jacksonville. I just think he's going to come in and he's never going to be a star for your defense and he's never going to do anything but his job. You need glue guys like this. You need guys you can count on. I'm telling you, every single snap I saw him put play, I saw three things. The first one he fired his ass off the ball like it was the last snap of his career. He was in the gap he was supposed to be in. And. And like, do what? Fine. Knock me over, take me down. I am a captain of a ship and I will sink with this thing because this is my gap. And coach told me I got to be in this gap. So it's over. And if I didn't go down with the ship by the time that war is over, I am going to fight my ass off so hard and chase and chase and chase. I can't give this guy more love while recognizing some physical limitations. But like, yeah, six 1. He's 295. We've seen other three techniques and he ran a 4. 8. 8. I love the pick. I just love the pick. I love the player. I didn't. I was worried he wasn't going to get drafted high enough because the. You know, there's not a. There's two sacks, there's three TFLs. There's not this, like, big. But he played behind a bunch of guys. Yeah, right. And he finally got his shot and he just did everything right. So. I didn't love Jacksonville's first pick, but I really like this pick.

[Steve Mensch]

I love it. Do you think Minnesota's serious about shoring up their front?

[Todd McShay]

Talk to me.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, they get Kayla Banks in the first, which could be a reach, could be a home run. We'll see what happens there. Most talented player in the draft, baby.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Then you get Jake all day in the second round.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, and they get out and you

[Steve Mensch]

get big citrus, big Sit Dominique from Iowa State, who is 6:2. I like 6:2 defensive tackles, by the way. It means a low center of gravity. They're tough to get under 322 pounds. He's got good length at 33 and 3 inch arms, 10 and a quarter inch, 10 and a quarter inch hands. What are we talking about here? We're talking about a guy who is going to clog up the middle and make life difficult for interior offensive linemen to get any kind of movement, also to get any kind of bodies up to the second level because he's gonna. If you try to block with one, he's gonna beat the one. If you try to block him with two, he's not gonna give much ground. He's that guy. He's not going to be a great pass rusher, but this is a dude that's going to step in right away and help your run defense.

[Todd McShay]

You know what I found interesting about him when I was watching this tape. The less you use him, this isn't like shocking news, but the less you use him, he. If you don't use him a ton. He actually is a pain in the ass as a pass rusher.

[Bill Simmons]

Really.

[Todd McShay]

He actually.

[Steve Mensch]

He's got more juice there. But here's the thing. Like, you can't. You can't do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I recognize. I'm just saying, like, if you wound up in some. And by the way, the league is not. Run on first down, pick up three, stay on schedule, run on. I'm saying he's going to be out there at times. Yeah. Early in a down, early in a game, and he's going to shock some people with. It's going to be this. And he's not going to be. I promise you, but he's going to. And he's got enough drive in his leg. When early in his career in 2023, he had like an 11 point. What was the number I wrote? I put this in the report.

[Steve Mensch]

13.6% pass rush win rate in 2024.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it's pretty good for big. Sit.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. But no, he is everything. Men. But again, it was so refreshing watching his tape compared. Not refreshing. There was just something about him like, oh, that's a man. That is an NFL man who will not be pushed around. And he's not this big guy who raises his pads. He is coming like lunch pail. And you're not going to move me, so you better run over there or you better run over here. But, like, this part of the field is like, it's. It's off limits today, folks. He's. I like them. There's value there. But. Yeah, Talk about trying to fortify a front, huh?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I mean, that is clearly the mandate there. That is clearly the plan. I love what they've done. I am fascinated by the next pick. We just brought up the name Dan Morgan. And Carolina Panthers take Chris Brazil the second.

[Todd McShay]

You sneaky son of a gun, Morgan, huh?

[Steve Mensch]

I'm gonna let you handle why he might be here. Do you want to get into that first?

[Todd McShay]

Do you want to get into the player Immaturity. Immaturity, yeah, there's immaturity. There's also immaturity of. Of like. Of. Is he developed yet as a receiver. But the. But the immaturity is. Let's just call it that. But at the end of the day, you got Bryce Young at quarterback, who's not an alpha dog, but you've got a locker room that feels like. And Tel McMillan is now the alpha dog in that wide receiver. Yeah. And. Yeah, and Dan Morgan's your general manager.

[Steve Mensch]

So is this them giving up on XAVIER Legette, the first round pick from 24?

[Todd McShay]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And I love Chris Brown. Was one of my favorite. If you would go back to the season. I watched Chris Brows on that Georgia game and I. No one talked. I was like, that's a. That's a first round talent, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And here he is in the Georgia tape is ridiculous. The Georgia tape. There was that one route that everyone has shown now, but I remember watching, watching it in the time at like September or October. And at 6 foot 4, 200 pounds, you're not supposed to be able to run 4, 3 in a straight line and then like drop, like take your hips and go like that. And he does. And he turns the Georgia defensive corner back around, like full turn style, outright catching on the sideline. He does some special things on tape, folks. And you think about a shorter quarterback getting to throw to these, like, giraffes on the outside. Who. Yeah, who? And one of them now runs in the four. What did he run, a four, three, two or something?

[Steve Mensch]

Something like that. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

This is an intriguing one because Teterow and McMillan, there's a lot of balls up in the air tested stuff. This Guy can fly 4, 3, 7. He's dynamic. And now I'll say this Tet's got to go up and do the contested stuff. That's not his game. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

But if you want to start rolling coverages, the Tet side of the field, that's the problem. You better have a corner who could run, man.

[Todd McShay]

That's the problem. But he, like I did see him, secure the ball. He takes some big hits and catch the ball. He's got this acrobatic way about him. He'll go up and make some tough catches. Like, the beauty with Brazil is you can't out throw him and you can't really overthrow him. Okay. And so I think if he continues to develop as a route runner, he's got a chance to be a real impact player. I love this pick for them. I want these tall receivers for my shorter quarterback. The catch radius, all of it. I think it's great.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. I mean, if you're looking at the maturity issue, you're doing a risk versus reward analysis and you feel about. You feel good about your locker room. This is how the board falls to you. I think it's a great pick. It's taking advantage of who's available,

[Todd McShay]

his big playability, like there's, there's just, there's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot to like. So I, I think that that's a, a home run at this portion of the draft. 19 picks in to the third round to get a Chris Brazil. I think we've caught up. I feel. Oh, here we go. The other big play receiver, the other vertical receiver. This is all awesome. This is where that run happens, right? These big, these tall receivers. We had Malachi Fields, we had a surprise in Caleb Douglas from Texas Tech. Then we see our little guy, Zachariah Branch, but also had Jacoby Lane. Now it's Brazel, now it's Hearst. And Hearst goes to Tampa Bay. And good lord, could Baker use another wide receiver. Mike Evans leaves town. We know we got a mecca. Buka can't spend an early pick. But Ted Hurst absolutely jaws on the floor. Watch this tape, folks. Senior Bowl. He's from Georgia State. Smallest and they sucked. It wasn't like this awesome program.

[Steve Mensch]

4 and 20 over the last two seasons.

[Todd McShay]

4 and 20 over the last 2 seasons.

[Steve Mensch]

How is this kid still there?

[Todd McShay]

But Drew Fabianich in the Senior bowl and NFL scouts, they'll find you. They'll find you. He had 127 catches for 1965 yards average over 15 yards per catch. Now you want to talk about like Underwood was tough and Sanford quarterback was tough and Texas A and M quarterback. Like there are some quarterbacks who couldn't throw and get him the ball. I'm telling you those numbers are pretty remarkable considering what he was working with. He's 64206. He's got 30, almost 33 inch arms. He ran a 44 2. He was the best wide receiver at the Senior Bowl.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree.

[Todd McShay]

Malachi Fields had the best moments. Ty Montgomery, who we love and is probably going to get drafted in the seventh round or undrafted free agent. And the great story was up there

[Steve Mensch]

he definitely caught some attention that the

[Todd McShay]

best receiver beginning to end of the week was again was Ted Hurst from Georgia State. And the beauty is I went back and I watched. He had 41 yards on four receptions in games against Ole Miss in 2025, Georgia Tech 2024, JMU in 2024. But he had four other games against these top opponents right where he was awesome. 356 yards on 24 catches. Vandy in 24 and 25, James Madison 25 and Memphis in 25. So it's kind of a wash. Like can he get it done against that competition when he. And then he shows to the Senior Bowl? And does it.

[Steve Mensch]

Exactly.

[Todd McShay]

So that, like, works well, There were some games that he didn't, but he did in many other games, and he did at the Senior Bowl.

[Steve Mensch]

Players with that frame, receivers with that frame who can win at the line of scrimmage, I love them. And he's got the foot speed to get. He can win at the line, he can get off press.

[Todd McShay]

That's what we saw during the week. It's. It's the.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And yeah, you're right, it's hard to. It's hard to find guys who can do that now. He's got to get more physical. He's got to get stronger, and he'll have time to do that. But. But Tampa Bay, I think, you know, look at Tampa Bay situation. They. They believe strongly and they should. Nameka Abuka. Yep.

[Steve Mensch]

Mike Evans is gone.

[Todd McShay]

Mike Evans is gone. And I don't know what you're. You're getting out of Chris Godwin. Right?

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Jaylen McMillan, like Tez Johnson, Jim McMillan.

[Steve Mensch]

Those guys are fours. They're. They're a little farther down the depth chart.

[Todd McShay]

Ideally, you need a vert. You need a. You need a size outside guy that can bring vertical, and Baker certainly has the arm to get it to him. This is going to be an interesting year for Tampa Bay. I don't know which way this is going to go. I'll be honest with you. Really, it's going to. They're either going to pick up where they left off early last season and, like, get things back, back on track, or I could see this not going very well. It seems like something point for Tampa this year. It's a pivot point for Tampa, and I think Ted Hurst is a player that will. Will help them avoid anything, like, negative that could be kind of, you know.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, okay, I hear you. No, no, I hear you. I think it's. A lot of people are seeing it the same way.

[Todd McShay]

Well, the defense had to get younger and faster. The defense was hard to watch towards the end of the year. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

The offense, it felt like there was some strife and. And a lot of it is because they've had so many injuries at receiver and all these moving parts and all that. Bucky's got to be healthy, they got to run the football, and a Mecca's got to stay healthy.

[Steve Mensch]

They were different when Bucky was healthy and they were on the. Dude, Bucky's so good.

[Todd McShay]

Totally. So there's. There's enough in place, but it feels like it's, like, teetering on the edge of. It could Go this way or it could, could go that way. And we saw it in one season. Season it was going this way and then it was going that way, you know. All right, what do we got next?

[Steve Mensch]

Dalen Everett to Pittsburgh. Very interesting pick because you're talking about a corner who was six one and a quarter inch tall, 31 and seven eight inch arms, which is good length and then ran a four, three, eight, which surprised me a little bit. But he ran really well. Inconsistent tape I think is fair. Made some plays in big moments. I think he can show up, up, but the tape is up and down. But if you look at the 2024 tape, it's better. In 2025 he was getting moved in the slot. He had such a rough start to the year that I think he was losing snaps. We're talking about a three year starter at Georgia. I like it here because there's enough tools for him develop into, into a starter in time for Pittsburgh.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I don't disagree. I mean it's hard to find guys with with length, length, toughness, experience and speed.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

That's a tough combination to find. And I think Pittsburgh is, you know, obviously it's a new coaching staff, but Pittsburgh has always done a good job of developing those kind of guys over time. Right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Like you said, it's been up and down, but this is like where, this is exactly where we thought he was going to come off the board. It's a really good pick by the Steelers and certainly there's a need that like adding depth and guys in the secondary was a priority coming into this, into this draft. Then we've got. Who is that Cleveland dude.

[Steve Mensch]

I love this pick.

[Todd McShay]

Go ahead, rock with it.

[Steve Mensch]

You get Austin Barber here. You've already got Spencer Fano in, in the first round. Now you go out and get a right tackle on Austin Barber and look, I get it. He is nowhere near the pass blocker that he is the run blocker. And we'll get into that right now.

[Todd McShay]

Now.

[Steve Mensch]

And that he's got shorter arms at 33 and an eighth inch arms. It's, it's just Miami and Texas A and M. Don't watch those tapes. If you're of a Cleveland fan tonight, just don't, don't watch tapes.

[Todd McShay]

Cash is.

[Steve Mensch]

It's tough.

[Todd McShay]

Cassius ruined him.

[Steve Mensch]

Well, he didn't ruin him. He just got drafted on day two of the NFL draft.

[Todd McShay]

Saying that day, but I promise you this guy's got talent.

[Steve Mensch]

This is what I will say about him.

[Todd McShay]

I took you off track, but I Just couldn't get that. It was like a Keylon Rutland in.

[Steve Mensch]

This guy might be the two best run blockers in this draft.

[Todd McShay]

Really?

[Steve Mensch]

I think Austin Barber is a guy who will get after you. He plays with a tenacity. He's also an experienced SEC tackle. You have got to improve your offensive line if you're Cleveland. I think this is the best tackle you're going to get at this point in the draft. I love that you go out and take a swing. If he can figure it out in pass, bro, he's going to be a very good player.

[Todd McShay]

Over Ioanna I

[Steve Mensch]

over.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, yeah, you're right.

[Steve Mensch]

You're right. Thank you.

[Todd McShay]

Sorry, I'm just being a dick. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

No, I. I'd love to do it to you. You're like, hey, how's it taste, M? How's that feel?

[Todd McShay]

Hours in this.

[Steve Mensch]

You want to rut in this guy?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yes. I get your. Your point is well taken.

[Steve Mensch]

He's an outstanding run blocker.

[Todd McShay]

He's an outstanding run blocker who had some miserable moments, but he, like, coming into the year, I promise you, like, scouts were talking about him. Potentially a first round pick. Yeah. So there's so much talent to work with there. I'm just impressed, man. Like, it's hard to explain in a football world with all football people, Right. When you've got this, it's not an outlier and we've seen more and more with like the analytics and all that. But, like, people are always kind of like, yeah, they're the most analytically team driven team in the National Football League, which is kind of a code for, I don't know, like, we just kind of like we watch the tape. We're football guys, you know, they've had so many mistakes. It's easy to poke the bear, Right? Yeah. But I just, I really appreciate what they've done this past draft and what they're doing again this draft. And I actually appreciate the fact, like, let's get our shit straight. Let's stop getting a. You know, we took a quarterback in the third and the fifth round last year. We'll take some hacks, right, and we'll see if it works out. But let's get this offensive line right so that in 2027 we can get our quarterback if Shador is not the guy. And let's give Shador a chance to win this job, man. And let's bring in another weapon we talked about, right? A wide receiver. Let's bring in an offensive tackle that men just talked about in the Third after bringing in an offensive tackle in the first. And so now all of a sudden with. With Casey Concepcion and Spencer Fano and now with Barber in the third, now we're talking about the two things we have to have to allow a quarterback to succeed. And I also want to remind people, Zion Johnson, Elgin Jenkins, Titus Howard, that was their splash in free agency this offseason. There is a commitment in Cleveland to whether It's Shador or Desean or a 2027 draft pick or Dylan Gabriel, the third round pick from last year. Whoever is in there taking a snap over the next couple years is going to be in a better position than the schmuck or the schlepping and the lard that was around that quarterback position. The just disgust. Think about what Cleveland has had offensively, personnel wise. Yeah. And Kevin Stefanski can actually coach.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And. But they never gave him a quarterback. And they never really had enough around the quarterback. So that's how Baker Mayfield winds up going and becoming Baker Mayfield down in Tampa after a couple of stops getting away from there. Right.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So my point is, I like the way this is heading. Browns fans. They're actually doing the things you need to do to get your franchise in position when the quarterback is in there to. To make a run at this thing. And let's listen. You got to give Shador a chance to win it and prove. Improve a lot of people wrong. Improve. Prove some people in your building wrong. You know, I agree, man.

[Steve Mensch]

If you're going to evaluate the quarterback, put him in a position to see.

[Todd McShay]

To evaluate him.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. You can't evaluate a guy who's, you know, it's. You know, in a way, it's how I talk about Lenor Sellers being in South Carolina. Tough to evaluate that kid when he doesn't have a lot of help.

[Todd McShay]

All right, The Dolphins come back up. There's two picks that have. Oh, two picks that I like here. We don't have to go long on the dolphins. Pick 23 is Kazmark the tack, the tight end from. From Ohio State. Then Emanuel Pregnon, one of our favorites. I'll let Mensch handle it. I just like his tape a lot. I thought he was the third best guard in this class. Or second best guard in this class.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Keelan Rutledge. You could put him 2A, 2B, but here he is sitting in the third round. We both like him. And I'll let men get to him in a second. Kacmark is an easy one. Kacmer, you'd think he'd wind up in Chicago, right. Kacmerk is the blocking tight end. The Max Claire's comes in from Purdue with the 4, 6 speed and the ability to run down the seams and create after the catch. Run crossers, I should say, and create after the catch. Kazmark, they're letting them catch the ball a little bit here at the Senior bowl because that's what you do. It's a showcase all star game and allow them, as you can see, the offensive line and not having to really protect, allow him to get his hands on the ball. That's not what he did in college. Man, my boy lined up. He had 15 catches this past year for 168 yards. Anyone who wants to do that math, it's 11 yards per catch. He is this big, strong chasmeric of a man, if you know what I mean. He's just. He looks. He looks how his last name sounds, how he like. And he plays the exact same. He's played 53 games, 28 starts, which is hard to start when you're just a blocking tight end for the most part. But he runs a 4, 7, 4 and that's not ugly, right. And he's got a 36 inch vertical shows that lower body explosion. He's among the best, if not the best blocking tight ends in this class. And so Miami's now looking at it, right? And they like, they're going to need to line up and they're going to need to be able to run the football. They got a mobile quarterback. They've got to be able to pound it and they got to take some pressure off and hope they hit on some big plays here and there as they build this roster up. And there's a lot of building still to do, but I like the direction because I do think Kacmaric is a. Is a. I don't want to call him a starter, but he's can't get to the M's here. I'm just looking at their situation. You get Dulcich, who just did a small deal to come back and then there's, you know, Ben Sims from Minnesota and they're just. They're just guys, they don't have anything. Yeah. So now Kaczmarik comes in as a late third round pick and he's going to be, whether it's a starter or whatever it is, he's going to be in your two tight end package starter, and he's going to be a damn good blocker and he'll catch some short underneath stuff when you need him.

[Steve Mensch]

That's it in the locker room, which they need, they need to change the entire environment, culture.

[Todd McShay]

It was fun watching him as a blocker because all these other guys. But he had power and, and leverage and he just loved finishing, you know. All right, go ahead.

[Steve Mensch]

Pregnon. Emmanuel Pregnon from Oregon. He's kind of an interesting cat when you watch him on tape because the, the way he run blocks is he plays with a wide base and he almost catches guys. He doesn't explode off the ball into them. And what's interesting with those kinds of offensive linemen is usually they are wall off positional blockers. I'm just going to take, you know, we're going to stay at the offensive line. I'm not going to let you out of here. He keeps moving his feet once he's in position and he moves defensive linemen out of the gap. He is a powerful dude. He's got good length at 33 and 5, 8 inch arms. You see this in the passing game when he can get his hands inside and he locks out and locks down guys. I just think he's, he's not an elite athlete. But the tape is really good. I thought he had a chance to maybe go late first and here we are in the third. The one thing that maybe other teams were concerned about that I see on tape is he gets top heavy and he falls off some blocks late. So maybe that's why what, what they were seeing. But I think the overall body of work of being a powerful drive blocker, a guy can wall off guys and get into position in the zone game and then he's really effective. He has 11 inch hands and when he latches on with those big hands, you're not getting out of that, man. It's like a boa constrictor. You're just not getting away from him. There's too much good here for him to have last this long, in my opinion. I think it's a great pick for Jacksonville.

[Todd McShay]

I do too. Tuck when you guys get a chance. Not the second, but at some point the next like three or four picks. I would like to. Oh yes. Keon Black just got drafted. This is going to be a wild ride. Throw out the top one hundreds this year. I think a little bit. Right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Keon Black, we absolutely love Black. But yeah, Kaylan Black from Indiana who we absolutely loved at the Senior Bowl. As you see him catching the ball as a receiver as men so aptly put, the way he hugs blocks as a runner center, he's just Efficient and reliable. Man, look at that little RJ Harvey right there.

[Steve Mensch]

Not invited to the combine.

[Todd McShay]

Not invited to the combine. Hey, hey. Combine. Bleep you. You know what I mean? Yeah, that. That's the year. About 18 per 17. 18 of players that get drafted every single year were not invited to the combine. I always say that. And I'm not disappointed. Disparaging what the combine does. It's run by the. It's run by like the NFL teams are submitting to all the players they want. And it's 323 players go to the combine on average, and 256 or 257 draft picks this year. It's always right around there. We have 257 draft picks this year. Okay. But Caleb Black was the number one player on our board that did not get invited. And I'm thrilled to see him drafted. It's like for him, it's got to be so deflating, man.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

To be on the national championship team. And I'm sharing. Sharing carries with another very reputable, awesome back in Roman Hemby. And Hemby gets invited to the combine and I don't now I get picked in the 26th pick in the third round. You talk about putting a stamp on. Now there is this strong argument that San Francisco is taking it back entirely too high. And I'm here for that. I'm not giving John Lynch a pass, but RJ Harvey was taken too high last year. Like I. That the thing is with these backs is you. You decide which one you want and you go get them. I think this is really high. And there's a history there of doing some stuff like that. But. But Kaylin Black, the shiftiness, the. The pass blocking, the. The reliability as a receiver and the efficiency of. As a runner really stood out to me. And in San Francisco, you honestly, you're going to need depth and we're going to need to be getting some. You know.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. I don't know where you get in the passing game. That's. That's the thing. I think.

[Todd McShay]

I think you don't. You've got Christian McCaffrey. You don't need a whole lot.

[Steve Mensch]

I agree. But I think that maybe that's why

[Todd McShay]

players watching him catch the ball at the Senior Bowl, I was a little bit more intrigued by him as an. As an outlet.

[Steve Mensch]

That's what I love. Like, you're. That's what you're saying there. Yes, and I think that's really important because there's a conversation to be had with some of these players. Of what they did in college and what they can do in the pros. And just because I think this was true about generic Price, even though I thought that was early for him as well, he had. Didn't have a lot of carries, he didn't play a big role in the passing game. It doesn't mean they cannot do that that in the pros. I remember James White went to Wisconsin and we're like, oh, is James White

[Todd McShay]

going to be a good receiver?

[Steve Mensch]

He's one of the best receiving backs

[Todd McShay]

in the history of the league.

[Steve Mensch]

So you do your homework. When you're working these guys out, how does he catch the ball? Is he natural tracking it? You know, they must feel good enough about him as a receiver to take him here.

[Todd McShay]

Interesting pick right before that, too. I don't want to gloss over for the Bears fans. Wow. Xavian Thomas did not he second fastest at the combine. Lsu. LSU had all these wide receivers, man. None of them really stepped up in the moments, you know, I just felt like they had a bunch of guys who were really fast but never really were the guy.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Xavian Thomas, though, blew it away at the combine. 5:10, 190 pounds, third fastest 40 at the combine period, regardless of position. It was second fastest, fastest, I believe, at wide receiver, but doesn't matter. Yeah, you're drafting him, obviously.

[Steve Mensch]

Kenan Allen's gone. You have Burden, you have Roma, Dunze.

[Todd McShay]

Here's the thing. When a pick like that comes in and I'm like, you know what? There are so many other receivers I would have drafted before him. And then I look at the. The offensive coordinator, essentially, who's also the head coach, and I just think to myself, he's got a plan, so that's. That's going to work out.

[Steve Mensch]

Out. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Do you know what I mean?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I. I do. I think it's early like you said, but you're right. When you look at who's. Who's taking them, they. I mean, they are the last two years loading up on weapons.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, loading up.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean, you think about Colson Loveland, Luther Burden, Dunes. They got the year before, I believe. Right. I mean, they have just. That offense has the potential to be insane. When you look at the tight ends of Colson Loveland, Colcomer met and I forget who else. Who was the tight end they drafted?

[Todd McShay]

Sam Roush.

[Steve Mensch]

Sam Roush.

[Todd McShay]

Don't you ever forget. Yeah, I'm just. I'm looking. They started with the.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, I mean, great first night.

[Todd McShay]

Great for. Great first pick. Didn't think that he would fall and they, they wound up getting some nice pieces like Roush there. Xavian top. Yeah, it's too early for me but like get used to it. It's a theme so we should probably get over it. Right. There's some players that are, that are typically later that are coming off the board earlier. But all in all like the top 60 or so players that we had in this class are gone. Actually 73, 74. The vast majority of the first 77 are off the board. So now it's, it's like it was absolutely expected this class. There's going to be some wild picks. Jermod McCoy, that's a very good point. And he's going to probably as long I have to guess he's on. He's the top on our best available right? As long as he. Yeah, he's going to be there until a team deems it that the Chris Bell is coming off the injury at Louisville and also so there's some maturity growing up that's got to go on. Draman McCoy is considered one of the great teammates and a tough guy and everyone loves him there. He just has an injury that is concerning to NFL teams and when you're drafting in the first three rounds there's like levels right? In the first three rounds you're expecting something, you're expecting whether it's the first round, a full time starter and you know to be an impact player. Second round you're hoping for a high impact player. Worst case you're getting a solid starter in some spot and these are obviously varying on position. Third round, maybe it's a nickel corner, maybe it's a number three or four number three receiver. And so as the rounds go down there's less expectation based off of history and it varies per draft. So with Jermod McCoy who legitimately in 2024 the best tape of any cornerback in this class in a given season season. And he's shifting, he's oily hips and he's fast and he's tough and he's a Pressman corner. He's everything 43 speed. He ran a 43 recently so it's not like he's on crutches. They just got a medical report though that's not very favorable. And we talked about this openly and it is what it is. It's a very unfortunate situation for McCoy but we saw Will Johnson fall to the second round last year. It just tells you that teams are even more concerned about this knee injury than, than than Will Johnson's because Quite frankly, I'll be honest with you. McCoy's a much better cornerback than Will Johnson. I'm just going to be honest when, when they're both at their best, he just is. So. Yeah, it's unfortunate. So we'll see where he falls and until. Until he. A team takes a chance on him. Maybe it's later in this. Typically when this happens, quite honestly, it's probably going to be the fourth round. But I hope for his sake that we hear his name before the end of the night. So throw that board back up if you don't mind. And I know we got. Oh, okay. No, never mind. Trey Zoom. J we.

[Steve Mensch]

Trey Zoom's interesting. I'll just get into this very quickly.

[Todd McShay]

No, you, you. I want you to. I want you to go there just to keep people updated. We talked about the Kalin Black, the running back to San Francisco who we loved surprises this early, but an interesting pick for the, for the 49. Trey Zoon. Offensive center, guard or tackle, however you want to look at it and mention. We'll get to him in a second. Excuse me. Is drafted by Las Vegas at pick 27 in the third round. And then Jayson Barnum Barham from Michigan. The other Michigan edge I think is going to be a better pass rusher in the league than Derrick Moore got drafted right after that to Dallas. Oh, I love that pick for Dallas.

[Steve Mensch]

And.

[Todd McShay]

And then tro's did the offensive tackle just got drafted as well. So go ahead, Tro.

[Steve Mensch]

Zun. Can I talk about Zun Zoon? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Trey Zoo III.

[Steve Mensch]

This dude started 50 games in college. He's an all sec left tackle. He doesn't have the length to stay out there at 32 and a half inch arms. The assumption was that he was going to kick inside the center. And he played 100 snaps or 100 snaps or so at center this year. So he did get some experience. And I spent a long time going through that and looking at, well, the mechanics of the position of playing center. Will he be able to snap? And the accuracy and the velocity of his snaps improved over the course of the year. And I think he'll be able to make all the line calls. He's going to Vegas. They decided Tyler Linderbaum, he's not playing center.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

So they must have drafted him to play guard. I think he's a really good player who's played out, who played a little bit out of position in college. College. He's athletic enough to get a position. I think he moves his feet really well as a blocker the length does show up in the sense of that he almost. He leans and overextends a little bit because it's hard for him to stink and to stink to sink his hips and stay connected. So what happens is he falls off some blocks. I think pass rushers in the NFL are going to take a little more advantage of that with their length and ability to beat him with their hands. But at this point in the draft, you're getting a guy who started 50 games who was an All SEC left back tackle and probably going to be a better fit on the inside than he was on the outside. Could be a steal for them here.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And then in two picks later, the Rams draft trost the. The offensive tackle from Missouri, right?

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And I watched enough of him. He's a Ram. Like, I get it. He's. He's not this like twitchy athlete. You're not going to see him getting out and running. But he's like balanced and he, and he is, he's coordinated and he's got like standard size, what like 6, 5, 3, 11. But I remember watching he's just like kind of steady.

[Steve Mensch]

He's just, he just like could kick inside a guard.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, absolutely. Could kick inside. But he's smart. That's what scouts talk about. Like this guy is smart and he's going to pick things up. And I think for the Rams that's really important. Bringing a guy guy. He doesn't have to be the biggest, he doesn't have to be the longest. He is like sub 4, 33 inch arms. But teams I talk to really like trust because he's smart and they, they know what they're getting, you know.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Started 50 guys, 45 games in Missouri. I think when you're looking at these players played a lot of football, experience matters, man.

[Todd McShay]

It does. But I want to go back to the, the pick earlier. So the Rams got to attack like, yeah, this is. The Rams needs aren't like, oh my gosh, we got to get a starting right t tackle. Like the Cleveland Browns need a starting left and the Cardinals need a starting right like the Rams are. We need depth. Like we got to make sure that there's guys behind that. We, if something happens to one of the starters, we can count on them to come in and hold it down for a little bit. That's what it is. Going back to the pick earlier, 28 Barum for Dallas.

[Steve Mensch]

You think the pass rush is important?

[Todd McShay]

Do you think the Cowboy like the Cowboys may all of a sudden after being absolutely atrocious and hard to watch on Sundays on the defensive side, may wind up having, like, one of the most exciting, dynamic defenses in the league. First of all, let's. Let's. Let's do them a little for a minute. First of all, they go in the off season, they say, you know what? We really like what Philly's been doing for a while, actually.

[Steve Mensch]

That makes a ton of sense. They're.

[Todd McShay]

They're kind of a pain in the ass defensively every single day.

[Steve Mensch]

I did not put this together. Great, Great.

[Todd McShay]

Cool. So Jerry's like, yo, let's go. Let's go hire Christian Parker, you know?

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And Christian Parker, who's working with. With Vic Fangio as the defensive coordinator, he was the defensive backs coach, and he's kind of like the young gun, 34 years old, and he's the uprising up and rising star. And so Dallas was like, let's put a star on his hat and let's go. And so he comes in and. All right, what do you need? And he's like, I need a. And Parker has gotten a lot from this organization. Pull up their picks while I talk about this.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

If you don't mind. In the off season, like, in the last eight months, yes, they lost Micah Parsons, but in return, they've added Quinn, Kenny Clark. Right. As part of that deal. Quinn and Williams, one of the best defensive tackles in the league. Rayshawn Gary, who, like, was a very high draft pick, has been up and down a little bit, but my gosh, he's gotten better as a pass rusher, and he's good, a good player. They got Otito on the other side as a rock, who last year. Defensive. Sorry. Tito's Otito is Dallas. The Dallas Cowboys. Sorry. I mean, if you didn't know. Dallas Cowboys. When I said a star in the hat with Jerry Jones, we're on Dallas. My point is. But then you look at the back seven, and you're like, yeah, as a rock, who we drafted last year. Right, Right. But we really need. And we got Gary and Zaraku, but we really need, like, linebackers. We need more edge rushers. We need a safety to lock this thing down. And let's look at the draft picks that they've wound up having bench.

[Steve Mensch]

You got Caleb Downs, 11th pick overall, second round, they get Malik. No, sorry. Second pick in the first round.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Malachi Lawrence out of Central Florida. And then right now they get J. Sean Barham from Michigan.

[Todd McShay]

And Barum is. Honestly, like. We both like Malachi Lawrence. Thought maybe it was A little early, but we come to find out the new defensive line coach for the Cowboys was at UCF last year with Malachi Lawrence. So that makes sense. And now you look at this at Jayson Barham who I watched late in the process to get a better feel. And this guy plays wild wildly, I mean wildly early in the season. I'm watching his tape. It's against usc, right. And he's playing off the ball linebacker but they're flashing him a little bit at edge. It's not totally dissimilar from Arvell Reese. Arvell Reese granted is a little bit taller and runs faster and. But this guy is not like six, three and a half, £240. He's played off ball linebacker for a good portion of his career. He had stops at Maryland and Michigan. Right. He highly productive. 193 tackles, 23 tackles for loss, 12 sacks, 82 pressures. He's played off ball linebacker a lot. Early in the, in the season it was like usc and then it was.

[Steve Mensch]

And last year too.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, last year and then. But this year, as the season progresses, it's more and more off the edge and you're seeing these flashes. All I know is this. The guy has no fear in the world. He plays 1,000 miles an hour every day down and I like against the run like he plays with power in his hands. He's got snap in his game. He's got redirection skills. I just, I think that there's a lot to untap here and now I get to utilize them however the hell I want to. If I'm Christian Parker, it's, that's the whole point. The beauty of this.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, you could start, he could be an off ball linebacker on. In certain situations and then you mix them up. It's their. It's going to be a headache for protections to identify who's coming and who's dropping. I think it's a great pick for a guy that really wants to be multiple. I think people remember this player Barham because he made contact with an official with his helmet in the Ohio State game, which is unfortunate if you look at the body.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, right, whatever.

[Steve Mensch]

If you look at the body of work of this player, he's a talented dude and I, I honestly think, you know, to over use the term, I think he's going to be a steal here.

[Todd McShay]

This, this next pick is fascinating to me. Chris Bell, wide receiver from Miami. We've talked about him. There's some growing up that has to be that needs to happen. Okay. He can be frustrating on tape because I promise you there are times he just. He wasn't interested as a blocker. There were some routes. You're like I need more out of your kid. But then there are some times where he wraps those fingers around the football and does stuff that nobody else in this class can do. Or pretty much the combination. It's six 2, 222 pounds of power or strength. I should say strength, power, whatever you want to call it to break tackles. And the acceleration from when he to

[Steve Mensch]

is wild for that size especially.

[Todd McShay]

It's the. It's why people go with the AJ Brown comp.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

I can throw a shallow crosser to

[Steve Mensch]

was like that too by the way. To. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

There's.

[Todd McShay]

There's. I get shades of and remnants of now the cons. The concerns are significant. He's coming off of an injury. Right. He's. Despite four years of experience. I'm watching him on tape and like the routes are just not polished. Okay. The execution was like rigid telegraphed. He wasn't like this detailed route runner for a four year receiver. And you're like you're playing in a good system with good. With like really good coaches at Louisville. What's going on and then do you have the ACL injury and then you have. And yeah, you have the ACL injury that he's coming off of and you just you. It was 11 games last year. He had 917 yards in just 11 and 11 games before that late season ACL. But the rest of his career, like the production wasn't what you would expect from this kind of talent. Yeah. So he's a fascinating study. But for Miami at this point their need for weapons at this point when I thought he could go there was talk of him going in the second and there was talk during the season maybe this guy's late first.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I love it, man. Take a hack. Go ahead. Well. Oh, sorry. Eli Radon was the next pick followed by Jennings dunker. We'll get to both of those picks. Reared in the tight end out of Notre Dame goes to New England. New England. They get their tight end 31 in the second round and then the Steelers third round. But yes at the Eagles.

[Steve Mensch]

The Steelers get Jennings dunker. The offensive guard slash offensive tackle from a Iowa.

[Todd McShay]

That's just my eyesight staring at a screen all day. It's getting a little. It's like blurry.

[Steve Mensch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

I'm glad you're saying it like 2015 my whole life.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm glad I'm Glad you're saying it, man. Wow. There we go. Do you want to talk about Raritan?

[Todd McShay]

No, you take. I mean, I mean, look, he's.

[Steve Mensch]

He's 6, 6, 245 pounds. You want him to fill out the frame a little bit, I think. But ran a 4, 6, 2 average 15.1 yards per catch.

[Todd McShay]

I like this tape.

[Steve Mensch]

He's. Dude, he's got. He's a guy that can stretch the field. I think he's a classic. Going to be more productive.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, I promise you.

[Steve Mensch]

In the pros than he was in college. Right.

[Todd McShay]

I promise you. And it's weird because they've C.J. carr and. And like they started to throw the ball. It just feels like between Raiden and Malachi Fields. Malachi Fields, yeah. But he's an ascending. He's traits based, man. This guy is 6, 6, 245. He ran the. Yeah. 462. He's got some stuff for. He, like, it's built on his size and catch radius. That's what his profile is built on. He presents a big target and he's got enough athleticism. I like. The more I watched him, I'm like, huh? This is what happened with a lot of these tight ends. Yeah. With Roush, Klein, Reardon.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

All these tight ends, the more I watch, I'm like, there's stuff there. Oscar Delp.

[Steve Mensch]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Stowers has got all this production and Sadiqs has got the production. They both worked out great. But like Klein, there's Juice there for Michigan Delt, there's Juice coming from Georgia. They don't get the type, you know, like, they don't. The passing game's inconsistent. Roush didn't have a quarterback. Claire transfers in from Purdue and a big production. But then Jolly's a good player. There's a lot of guys here, but Raritan's one of those guys where it's not there yet. Yet. But you're betting you can develop him and I think for New England, like, what a great spot.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I can't. I mean, do I get to talk about my Viking now? Jennings Dunker with the.

[Todd McShay]

No, he's. Oh, you're Viking going to the Steelers.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, good point.

[Todd McShay]

Because the Vikings.

[Steve Mensch]

He's a real.

[Todd McShay]

The Vikings have the next two.

[Steve Mensch]

Look at this man. Look at the. This gorgeous man with the red mullet and the mustache.

[Todd McShay]

Waiting so long. Patient.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, God, this guy's the best.

[Todd McShay]

Best.

[Steve Mensch]

He's just the best.

[Todd McShay]

He's actually long enough.

[Steve Mensch]

I think he's long enough to play some Tackle if you need him in a pinch. The more I watched him, the more I, I thought he was a tackle for a while. The more I watched him. I think he's going to kick inside to guard. Look, he's just so mean. Competes at the end of the one on one rep, doesn't care. Step up. I'll take on all oncomers.

[Todd McShay]

It is.

[Steve Mensch]

He's just a tough competitive dude who comes from that Iowa zone scheme. Athletes athletic enough to be a zone blocker, mean enough to drive guys off the ball. Typical Iowa situation where. This is where I have some concern about him playing offensive tackle. He's not an elite athlete. They run the ball a lot. They do a lot of play action. How many true pass sets has he had? It's going to take him a minute to develop. But if you kick him inside the guard and he's in a tighter space, I love it. This dude is so much fun to

[Todd McShay]

watch and fun watching you talk about how much fun he is.

[Steve Mensch]

I mean look at this big athlete. Athlete with that kind of, that kind of lettuce. I mean that is, that's a special dude. When you bring him into your. In that offensive line room.

[Todd McShay]

I mean you think he, you think he's not going to be loved in that.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, just keep rolling it for the rest of the night.

[Todd McShay]

Let's just keep rolling through it. You know he's there too, right?

[Steve Mensch]

And what did I call him at the Senior Bowl? Do you remember this? He's a rep snatcher. When he was at the Senior bowl he didn't care if he was a tackle, he didn't care if he was a guard. If there was a chance for him to get a one on one rep. This dude doesn't have hide. He does not hide from competition. He is ready to roll.

[Todd McShay]

I think it was. DJ said he was on the plane with him to Pittsburgh and he's going to a party. Going to some like draft party to hang out with Cam Scatter. So he was in Pittsburgh last night talking about man. But yeah. And he was talking about how could you imagine him and Scatter boo at the same team but now in Pitts Pittsburgh.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, he's going to be at a. He's going to be at a Pittsburgh Penguins playoff hockey game in a week.

[Todd McShay]

Chugging just.

[Steve Mensch]

Well if they can actually hang on. Getting crushed by the Flyers. But just crushing beers and chugging.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. And being loved. Loved up. Can't wait for like that's a celebrity's going to love. That's a celebrity in Pittsburgh. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

That's a celebrity anywhere.

[Todd McShay]

Sorry. Caleb Tiernan.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, another. I like this guy too, man.

[Todd McShay]

I know this. Hey, I had my tight end run.

[Steve Mensch]

This is nice.

[Todd McShay]

And my edge run and my receiver run. So you get, you get the big uglies out before pick 100.

[Steve Mensch]

Caleb Tiernan is one of those guys. We talk a lot about these guys ago at this point in the draft who are better run blockers and they're maulers and. But they have like, they have some holes in their passing game. He's kind of the opposite. He's a positional run blocker. He's athletic enough to get there. He's not gonna get a lot of movement. Probably gonna have to kick inside from tackle the guard. That's, you know, you look at the length, you worry about maybe if he's gonna be able to hold up there. I really like the way he moves in pass, bro, though. I like how quickly he gets into his style sets. I like his hand placement. I like the way he moves his feet. He moves his feet once he's engaged. When you're talking about this point of the draft, the Jennings dunkers, the Markel Bell who went a little bit earlier from Miami, now Caleb Tiernan from Northwestern. This is a good spot for these guys because you're not feeling as comfortable that they have the elite traits that the. The top seven offensive tackles had. But these guys have a chance to develop into maybe not starting tackles, but maybe starting guards. They can provide some depth at tackle if you need them. This is another good player for this range of the draft.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, here are the details of a trade just occurred. Minnesota had to trade up to get two picks in a row. The pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh,

[Todd McShay]

interesting. The pick results that the pick 98 is. Is Jacoby Thomas, the defensive back from Miami. Okay. The Eagles received Jonathan Greener. We had heard a lot about this and here it comes to fruition.

[Steve Mensch]

Interest. Right.

[Todd McShay]

7th round pick they get as well. But they. But the vikings receive a 2027 third rounder. Interesting. No speculation, but maybe Minnesota. While I haven't been hip to a lot of their picks and I don't like this pick, to be totally honest with you, but it's about the range. He could have gone. Jacoby Thomas. You do wonder if they're trying to stockpile a pick for next year to be a part of that quarterback thing. If all hell breaks loose this year,

[Steve Mensch]

which it could, absolutely could.

[Todd McShay]

I'm just like, that's the, that's the read I get off of that trade is we Get a third round pick next year in this draft that has a chance to be one of the greatest of all time and we'll find a way to screw it up and we'll all be idiots because we overrated everybody by the time next year comes. But it's got a lot of talent that it projects to be one of the better drafts in a long time.

[Steve Mensch]

And you're not mad at anyone getting assets in next year's draft?

[Todd McShay]

Not at all. And I'm certainly not mad. Added a team that we talked about could be a sleeper team to draft a Ty Simpson or could. And we know with Kyler, it's either going to really work or it's really not gonna work. And so by getting a third, you gotta. You gotta guess. It'll be like we'll do instead of Mr. Irrelevant. Yeah. This is the Jaguars, so it's gonna be a player 200 on my list.

[Steve Mensch]

I'm gonna go.

[Todd McShay]

Go.

[Steve Mensch]

TM Burks, your guy,

[Todd McShay]

Jacksonville.

[Steve Mensch]

Julian Neil. That's interesting. From Seattle.

[Todd McShay]

You got anything you want to give on him? I can tell you this in Seattle. Seattle tried to move out of 32. Seattle was looking at a bunch of corners. I do wonder, I do wonder if Chris Johnson would have been it. Jaylen Husky. I just did his tape the other day. Just was like flipping through it. I'm talking this. I've got this guy in the 270s. It's almost like Gladstone is planting his flag and saying, I am smarter than all of you.

[Steve Mensch]

Dangerous Came to play, by the way.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, we'll see. Yep. There's some things. There's some things to like about. Don't get me wrong, but I literally just was ripping through his tape to get a feel and I was. Yeah, I just want to. Do we have pull up Jacksonville's picks

[Steve Mensch]

today,

[Todd McShay]

if you don't mind. Mensch.

[Steve Mensch]

Oh, sorry.

[Todd McShay]

Pull up Jacksonville's picks today if you don't mind.

[Steve Mensch]

Wake up, Mitch.

[Todd McShay]

No, you're good.

[Steve Mensch]

I thought you were tugging in the room.

[Todd McShay]

Husky, like Husky's 6 1. He's 196 pounds. He had 72 tackles last year, two breakups and four interceptions. The ball skills and the instincts are what stand out. He's not great in terms of COVID Like cover twitch or athleticism. I don't know that I have a 40 on him from the pro day or anything, but what I do know is run support. I thought it was just a kind of average. Yep. But he's got ball skills and he's instinctive and so in that scheme, I think they think that they're getting something special teams and all that. But like that's. That's for fifth round. Sixth round.

[Steve Mensch]

Their picks are.

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

Second round was their first pick. They didn't have a first round. They give Nate Bo Richter from Texas A and M. The tight end.

[Todd McShay]

Bo Kirker.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah, Bo Kirker. Sorry.

[Todd McShay]

I think so.

[Steve Mensch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Reach. Then they get Albert Regis who you like the defensive.

[Todd McShay]

But. But quite honestly most in the league had him in the fourth. But that's. That's. That's a good pick.

[Steve Mensch]

I think Emmanuel pregnant on the guard from Oregon is a home run at that point in the draft. And then they get Jalen Husky from Maryland.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, we'll see. They do it differently and that's fine. And there's nothing wrong with different. I'm not. But. But it's going to be interesting.

[Steve Mensch]

Who got Julian Neil? Was that Seattle?

[Todd McShay]

Yes.

[Steve Mensch]

I like that pick for Seattle. This is not. He is not a. What's that? That. Sorry. Thank you. I think he's a good fit for Seattle who just lost Recoil and this guy is. He is a bigger corner who you do not want matching up against these quick twitch receivers. He's. That's not his thing.

[Todd McShay]

But he had a Seattle. It's. This is Seattle's thing, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

He's very good against the run. He absolutely hits like a truck or a safety in zone looks. You come into his area, you better have your head on a swivel. He's 62 with 32 and 3/4 inch arms and he ran a 44 9. The tools are there for this guy to be a great press zone corner.

[Todd McShay]

You can't you. Compton with Cam Hart. Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

Do you like that?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I do.

[Steve Mensch]

Okay, good.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve Mensch]

I think he's gonna be good against the run. I think he's gonna. He's going to be a good special teams player right away and he's got the size and the speed to be really good in their. In their scheme they didn't need a starter. Josh Jobe's gonna be the starter off opposite Devin Witherspoon. But they clearly value physical corners. Who will get after you and that kid fits. This kid fits the. The mold.

[Todd McShay]

It's a good way to wrap things up with a little bit of confusion on what's been a wild day. But then some strong statements from men. Strong on. On a corner that is going to wind up, you know, outplaying where he gets drafted and being a big impact player for Seattle because it's just kind of what they do. 81 of my top 1 that's kind

[Steve Mensch]

of a down year for you. I think it's a good number.

[Todd McShay]

85 or 86 has been the average. It'll be interesting to see if anyone is significantly higher because there's some of these names like if you. If you had Bower Kirker or or Husky or Good for you. Good for you.

[Steve Mensch]

Yeah. Caleb Douglas.

[Todd McShay]

Caleb Douglas. Yeah that was an early one but hey I'm here for it all.

[Steve Mensch]

Anyone you're kicking yourself for not putting in there. There was the the defensive tackle for Texas A and M I think just a little bit the running back from Indiana.

[Todd McShay]

I know I would never have put him in the league.

[Steve Mensch]

We loved him. We loved him.

[Todd McShay]

I love players with reason A unlike what Gladstone has done two of his picks today it's going to turn out listen I have all the respect in the world I know the background I know what he's worked through I know he was with less like I'm not I'm just saying we see things differently and that's totally fine but that's just not where I see some players. I do feel terribly for Jermod McCoy with the knee and hopefully it like it's not more severe than and it's just a matter of precaution in terms of protection of picks and when what you're willing to risk and hopefully he gets on the field and he's the player that we expected Kyle Lewis is a guy we thought I knew this could happen. Don't care more so than ever this year like I don't care when there's this much parity between picks 64 and 164. I want my guys that guy's going to be a flat out football player in the NFL. He's going to come in he's going to watch wind up starting I guarantee you by the end of the first year and he's going to be an impact player. Keonte Scott. I like him.

[Steve Mensch]

Dion Burks ran really well. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

I see something on tape with the explosiveness down the field. I think there's more there just another quarterback who could throw it to him. Jalen Farmer. You liking the Kentucky kid? I did too. Kamari Ramsey see some versatility.

[Steve Mensch]

I can't believe he didn't go.

[Todd McShay]

I'm surprised by that one two safeties are interesting. Yes and Grayson Holton and Bryce Lance. Mike Washington doesn't shock me at all. We said there's there might not be a third running back until day three and that's where we are. It's going to be a fascinating day, though. We still have a bunch of quarterbacks. We still, we've got Garrett Nussmeier, Cole Payton, Taylor Green. We've got, we got a bunch of running backs still. Even though we had a lot of.

[Steve Mensch]

Teams are going to get better on day three. They always do, man.

[Todd McShay]

And we will be back tomorrow. Not live. This has been a blast. Thank you for joining us. And for those of you who watch live, thank you even more. It's crazy. No commercials, no nothing. But we just rocking and rolling and mensch. I appreciate you and everyone who's behind the scenes. We gave all the thank yous yesterday, but you can give as many as you want right now because I always steal.

[Steve Mensch]

I thanked. I thanked. I mean, you thanked everyone yesterday.

[Todd McShay]

I did.

[Steve Mensch]

I'll thank my family. Hi, Stella.

[Todd McShay]

They, they deserve praise. Tate's just asking me for, for permission. It's like 11:30 on the east Coast. I won't even mention. He's not going to figure it out because it's not Netflix. Which means if it's not Netflix, he's not watching this. And if he's up and not watching this.

[Steve Mensch]

What's going on, Tate?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I mean, let's get a hold of things. Thank you to Marissa. Thank you to Dan. Thank you to Connor. Thank you to Tucker. Thank you to everyone who's been on this project from the very beginning. Thank you to Rob. Thank you to Mal. Thank you.

[Steve Mensch]

You.

[Todd McShay]

Thank you to Bill for coming over and being special guest. That was a lot of fun.

[Steve Mensch]

I was like, who's coming in?

[Todd McShay]

We have a we. Jonathan, thank you. Like, I could go on for days and days, but thank you to everyone who to Jesse. Yes, Jesse. Anyone else?

[Steve Mensch]

Chris?

[Todd McShay]

Jake. Yeah. Jake, who came by yesterday. All right. We appreciate it. This has been a lot of fun. We're back tomorrow on Saturday for day three. Three. We're not doing a live show tomorrow. We're going to do a wrap up. We're going to. It makes more sense. We're going to do a wrap up, wrapping up all of day three. We'll probably get into some of the day two picks and then we're back on Sunday for the monster show, the mega show. All 32 NFL teams will go through all of your teams and we'll break down the best of the worst of and kind of get a feel for. For what happened in this draft and how much better, how much better the team got because of these draft picks and quite frankly, what's left still on the bone to attack, right? Yeah. This has been fun, man.

[Steve Mensch]

It's been awesome. It's been. I mean, it's been really fun.

[Todd McShay]

It's been really fun and it's been really cool. And we appreciate Netflix and all of our sponsors for giving us a chance to do this. So hopefully we'll see.

[Steve Mensch]

Check out the site, by the way.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Yes. Theringer.com backslash or/mcshay theringer.com McShay Mensch Five stars.

[Steve Mensch]

Thanks, man.

[Todd McShay]

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