Daniel Jeremiah (3:33)

I'm excited.

Todd McShay (3:34)

Right after the super bowl, man. What?

Daniel Jeremiah (3:36)

What?

Todd McShay (3:37)

Give me a better time. All 32 picks. The draft order is set. Now 31. Now 31 instead of 30 of the NFL. Markets are miserable. How do we get better for next season?

Daniel Jeremiah (3:51)

Well, it's officially draft season. I know the draft starts in Mobile, but I mean, now it's officially official, so.

Todd McShay (3:58)

All right, let's just dive right into it, men. Let's give people what they want. Let's go. Who are some of Mench's guys? Give me the three. Just rattle them off however you want to do it.

Daniel Jeremiah (4:07)

All right. I'm gonna start with the Utah tight end Dalen Bentley, who started his career at Snow College. I'm not even sure where Snow College is. He had a very kind of quiet freshman year there, and then he transfers to Utah and promptly catches three passes for 20 yards over the next two seasons. Very underwhelming. And then this year he breaks out for. You're seeing it there, 48 catches, 620 yards, 12.9 yards per catch. I am blown away with the kid on tape. I think that he's, when you let me put it this way, he probably had the best. We're talking about an ascending player. He had the best season of his career his last season there. He probably had the best game of his career in his last game against Nebraska in the bowl game game. But I want to point out one play that I think really talk shows what this kid can do. Okay?

Todd McShay (4:53)

He.

Daniel Jeremiah (4:54)

This is against Texas tech. It's the 55th play. When we say that we're talking about the offense for Utah. So it's off. It's Utah's 55th play on offense.

Todd McShay (5:03)

It's not one of these days you're just going to write down the time code if you want to. If you're going to reference. It's probably late third quarter, early fourth. Go ahead.

Daniel Jeremiah (5:11)

Right. So he releases on just a hitch route.

Todd McShay (5:15)

Right.

Daniel Jeremiah (5:15)

And the quarterback gets flushed. Was right. Instead of staying stationary, he gets behind the linebacker, which is important because he wants to be in that blind spot. Finds a soft spot in the zone, catches a pass that's thrown slightly behind him, nice upfield, and probably picks about 30 yards up after the catch. I couldn't find a basketball background for this kid, but when I watched him on tape, all I can think is you had to play basketball for two reasons. One, he's a big frame kid. He went down to the Senior Bowl. He's 6 foot 3. He's 262 pounds. You see that in the way he boxes out facing the quarterback. He is a zone buster. He's a guy that gives you a real big target against zone looks. And the other thing is, I love the way he drop steps when he's about to catch the ball facing the quarterback and puts himself in a position to produce after the catch. He's got shorter arms and sometimes that. That smaller catching radius shows up on tape. But man, I'm watching him. He's tough to tackle after the catch. He runs hard. For a guy who's that big, he out of nowhere will. He'll make a defender miss after the catch. I just think people are sleeping on him. I think he's a top five tight end in this class and I think he could go on. Day two.

Todd McShay (6:21)

Ephraim, Utah in San Pete County. Founded in 1888 and nice. 5,500 students.

Daniel Jeremiah (6:33)

No disrespect to Snow College, but he.

Todd McShay (6:35)

Didn'T, he didn't put up numbers there.

Daniel Jeremiah (6:39)

Yeah, good. They deserve it.

Todd McShay (6:41)

All right. Who's your number two? That's my guy.

Daniel Jeremiah (6:44)

I didn't know. We're gonna go. All of my guys right away. But that's all right.

Todd McShay (6:46)

You want to rotate, you want to go one on one? I don't care. This is. Let's do that. Because I am.

Daniel Jeremiah (6:51)

I have one of your guys on my brain and you know, you know it. And I'm just waiting to get into that. And that's.

Todd McShay (6:58)

Well, we shared with Tucker so he could build these beautiful graphics that he's building, right? Yes. And you always think that some, like some slight or I'm attacking you. What if I just happen to like a player that you think sucks and I'm staking claim in him? Blake Miller guy rage bait.

Daniel Jeremiah (7:17)

This is what this is. It's not this is not you. Don't. Don't pretend. Go ahead.

Todd McShay (7:21)

I got four kids in this house from ages ranging from 10 a lair just turned 10 a couple weeks ago to 16. I am well versed in rage bait, trust me. Blake Miller, number 78, the right tackle for Clemson. I actually thought he got off to a little bit of a slow start. I didn't think his best game was that LSU game earlier in the season. I'm not 100% sure as you see here, sick on the screen. If you're watching on Netflix now or after the fact on Spotify or if you're just listening on on Apple or wherever else you listen to your podcast, there's a Blake Miller graphic up. He's six six, 315 pounds, 53 college games played, 3,655 snaps. That's part of why I love this guy.

Daniel Jeremiah (8:08)

Okay, we're doing snaps with tackles now.

Todd McShay (8:12)

Hey, snaps equal snaps, equal reps. And I'm a reps guy. I didn't think it was his best game of the 53 college games he's played against LSU. Right off the bat, hard to tell a couple of them are they breakdowns on him or is it was the protection set wrong? But as the season progressed I thought he got better and better. I love Blake Miller because it seems like everyone talks about the same names at offensive tackle, Francis Maui Noah, right tackle or guard from Miami, Spencer Fano from, from Utah, left tackle, played right tackle, projects as a left tackle, very athletic, still is getting bigger and stronger. Kaden Proctor gets a lot of first round love. If you look around the draft averse in mock drafts. But every coach I've talked to, which is two different coaches in the league and every scout I've talked to when they're talking offensive tackles in the first round, it's Freeling from Georgia and Blake Miller from Clemson. And so I when I had these conversations earlier in the year, I'm talking like October, I went back and studied Blake Miller's tape. What I like about him is I know who he is. I talk to people inside the program. Kevin Kelly, by the way, who was a long time one of the most trusted scouts and personnel people in the NFL over my 25 years. A guy who always had an eye for talent. He's now obviously he's got a bias now if you will. But he's not going to have a conversation with me about a player and, and promote all the, the things that he believes believes in if he doesn't actually believe in them. Tells me this guy never misses a practice leader of the offensive line room as tough a guy in the weight room and you know, around the building in terms of like getting, getting guys to play up to the level around him as he is on the field. And you see on the field, he's physical, he's a finisher. I think he moves well. I don't want like, he's not one of the Utah tackles, but he moves well enough. The 35 inch arms with that frame, with adequate movement skills, the toughness, the consistency, the experience. Like, what else do you need? I'm not saying he's elite. I'm not saying he's a top 10 guy. I'm not saying he's Joe Al, but I'm saying like, it's tough to find an offensive tackle that you think is going to be a plug and play starter in the NFL that you can get some pet somewhere pass pick 20, 20, maybe 20, 25. Blake Miller is going in the first round, but I think you can get him in the bottom half of the first round and I love that value and I love that I know who he is. He is in a college landscape that is changing so quickly and guys are bouncing around and different things are happening in Nil. Like this guy is true to who he is. I like Blake Miller.

Daniel Jeremiah (11:12)

Okay, I listen respectfully.

Todd McShay (11:16)

Your screen paused or I am. We're actually just listening respectfully because it seemed you were in a little bit of a trance while I was talking.

Daniel Jeremiah (11:25)

I. I'm trying to listen. I'm trying to. Tucker. Tucker the same.

Todd McShay (11:29)

Tucker was worried too.

Daniel Jeremiah (11:31)

Yeah, I'm trying to maintain. First of all, I have high blood pressure for people who watch the show and I'm trying to. I'm trying to get my Zen place here before I absolutely pop off on this. I don't want to be overly harsh and there's some very smart people who obviously agree with you and I have, obviously have a ton of respect for how you evaluate players. You think you know who Blake Miller is. I think I know what Blake Miller is and I think Blake Miller is not that good. He is beaten by speed off the edge. SMU play 64. Sorry, I don't have the time stamp where he gets beat around the edge and Kate Clubnik absolutely gets smoked.

Todd McShay (12:06)

And for a guy who has all.

Daniel Jeremiah (12:08)

This experience, McShay, why is he having a hard time in the LSU game adjusting to some of those pressures? Why am I throwing on the North?

Todd McShay (12:14)

I don't know if it's a protection set and I already Said it wasn't his best game. I'm, I'm.

Daniel Jeremiah (12:20)

You did. I did. I'm agreeing with you. I don't think it was his best game either. North Carolina play 21 play action. He's blocking a safety 10 yards downfield. Somehow they don't call it, but they will call that in the NFL if you're a four year starter, you're. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. Because this is the thing about him. Okay. This is the thing in pass protection. You think he has okay movement sales. I don't think he moves that well. I think he gets beat by speed off the edge. I think he gets beat to the inside and I think he gets beat by power in pass protection. I think he can be a liability also.

Todd McShay (12:55)

I mean, you hated Will Campbell last year, so like, am I to trust you?

Daniel Jeremiah (13:00)

I did not hate Will Campbell. I told you that he's probably going to be a better fitted guard. And I'll tell you right now, he is exactly who I said he was.

Todd McShay (13:08)

He.

Daniel Jeremiah (13:09)

If. Tell me one of the tackles that was drafted after him in the first round outside of Simmons, who had some off the field stuff, but if he was clean off the field and was staying and was healthy and in this, in the lineup every game there wouldn't. It wouldn't even be close. All the offensive tackles drafted ahead of him would have gone earlier than him. Sorry. That's just the way it is. They have been way better as a pass blocker than, than Will Campbell has who has struggled at times and maybe banged up.

Todd McShay (13:33)

So where would you grade Blake Miller?

Daniel Jeremiah (13:35)

I would have. I have Blake Miller as a Fringe Day 2 guy. I don't even think he's like, I have a hard time putting him in day two. I think his tape is that suspect.

Todd McShay (13:44)

I have issues. This is gonna be a fun draft season.

Daniel Jeremiah (13:47)

It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if you want a new, if you want a new name like Freeling's, a relatively new name as a guy, as an offensive tackle, Max Ianacho, who. I still don't think I'm saying his name right, is a relatively new game name. As a guy who's gonna go in the first round, I don't know why we have to put Blake Miller in the first round because he's tough and he's played a lot of games. And there's a me tell you something about this too.

Todd McShay (14:08)

He's big. He's got, he's, he plays with balance. He's got 35 inch arms like, oh, here's balance.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:13)

Oh, he plays with balance.

Todd McShay (14:14)

I listen.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:15)

Now you've got me worked up, so I'm just going to do it.

Todd McShay (14:17)

Tell me.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:18)

Go back and watch play 53 against Florida State. Watch your guy climb to the second level, get out in space and block no one.

Todd McShay (14:26)

I could off 19 plays from Kelvin Banks a year ago. Kelvin Banks had a hell of a year this year.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:33)

And then turn around and go over and step on number 31 like it's. Nothing goes over. And I hesitate to say stuff like this. I watched that play 15 times because it's really hard to tell what intention is. But this tough guy's gonna walk over and step on someone's ankle after the play. Go back and watch it.

Todd McShay (14:50)

Tell me I'm wrong. All right, move on.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:53)

Go ahead.

Todd McShay (14:54)

I have, I have a 14 minute fight on Blake Frickin.

Daniel Jeremiah (14:56)

There's a blood pressure.

Todd McShay (14:57)

I'm sweating. You knew.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:00)

You knew. I said when you put him on. This is intentional.

Todd McShay (15:05)

How that Ohio State wide receiver do last year?

Daniel Jeremiah (15:09)

Ameka? Yeah, yeah, he did pretty good.

Todd McShay (15:12)

He wasn't able to go in the first round and be the day one starter. Go ahead. Are you my guy?

Daniel Jeremiah (15:19)

Who, who's right?

Todd McShay (15:20)

Are you gonna be this difficult for the next hour? Are you gonna be this difficult if.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:23)

You keep pushing my buttons like you are right now?

Todd McShay (15:25)

Yes.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:26)

All right, moving on. Moving on. We're going to go with a guy who got, who started his career as a walk on at a Division 2 school, then transfers to northern Illinois and then after three years in northern Illinois Tech, transfers to Texas Tech, plays in six games and is awesome. I don't care what the numbers say is awesome. We're talking about Skyler Gil Howard, the defensive tackle who had the thick six for 55 yards against Ken State, where the, the way he tracks and pulls the ball out of the air. Just a big man being an athlete. I, I love this kid. You can talk about the production this year when he was a jr at nil.

Todd McShay (16:02)

You going to play him at edge? Where are you playing this, this? Oh, I'm sorry.

Daniel Jeremiah (16:06)

We don't play tackles that are. Are 200, by the way.

Todd McShay (16:09)

He's six.

Daniel Jeremiah (16:09)

I had him at 290. Tucker, you really, you really heard me. I had him at 290. But anyways, 52 tackles, eight tackles.

Todd McShay (16:17)

You want an injured, undersized, barely six foot when, when he actually gets checked into the combine? 285 pound defensive tackle and you're bitching to me about Blake Miller.

Daniel Jeremiah (16:29)

You know what the difference is, Todd? Do you Know what the difference is? I want him in the middle rounds. I don't think he's a first round pick. I'm not losing my mind saying that this guy should be a first round pick because I like him and he had a productive year in Northern Illinois for one year. My guy doesn't have to be a first round guy. We weren't just picking first rounders. As a matter of fact, I don't think my guys should first round.

Todd McShay (16:49)

Blake Miller's a third rounder for you. But go ahead.

Daniel Jeremiah (16:52)

I have a third round grade on Blake Miller.

Todd McShay (16:53)

I know 100%.

Daniel Jeremiah (16:55)

So I, I make no apologize for it, no apologies for it. Are you ready for Gil Howard?

Todd McShay (16:59)

Please.

Daniel Jeremiah (17:00)

Doesn't stay blocked, just he is, I call him.

Todd McShay (17:04)

He's going to in the NFL with Blake Miller, 35 inch arms. He's going to erase him.

Daniel Jeremiah (17:09)

Here we go. We'll see that. That would be kind of new for Blake Miller. But anyways, Gil Howard is a bare knuckle boxer with great instincts. I mean, you used to talk about this, now I'm going to give you a compliment. Let's see if we could smooth things over. After the start to this show, you used to talk about instinctive interior defensive linemen and I was like, this is just the myth. You're playing in a shoebox. How can you be that instinctive in locating guys? But when you see it, you know what McShay is talking about with an instinctive defensive lineman. And that's what this guy is. He's 6 foot 1, he's not looking over anyone. But he has a great feel for how teams are trying to block him, where the ball's going and he sheds in the proper direction. Yes, he's undersized. He's also 6:1 with a very explosive first step, knows how to use his hands. He's got good body strength, so he's a little harder to move off the ball. If he was six'4,290, I would have more of a concern. But he's got a kind of a squatter body type. He's never going to be a high volume sack guy. I understand that. But he can be disruptive and he can affect the quarterback because he's relentless and he gets off blocks with those hands and he's quick, quick. He's tight, has a hard time finishing. That's why I don't think he'll ever be like a high volume sack guy. But this is a dude I think is flying under the radar because he was banged up for Most of the year. And you look at how stacked that Texas Tech defensive line was, and the guy that came in to replace him, A.J. holmes, I think is going to get drafted early next year. This is a player that I think might be flying under the radar a little bit. But when you go back and watch the tape and you look at the resume, he's a dude. And by the way, I love this. Nine younger siblings. And it tells me, without knowing a lot about his background yet, and we'll get into that later on as the process goes, that he's got a lot to play for. He's a leadership studies major. Like the background on this stuff so.

Todd McShay (18:50)

Far on his leadership studies majors, man, don't. Don't discount that. Jepsen School of Leadership, University of Richmond. Got me sitting next to you, getting screamed at.

Daniel Jeremiah (19:02)

I'm done with you today. I'm gonna walk off today. This might be the day. All right.

Todd McShay (19:06)

My ne. My next guy, Chris Brazil, the second. Not Junior, the second. CB2. I called this early in the season.

Daniel Jeremiah (19:18)

You did.

Todd McShay (19:19)

Why, why isn't this cat being talked about as one of the top receivers? He had a. You see 62 catches, over a thousand receiving yards this year, 16.4 average. When you look at it like he be. He began his career at Tulane, red shirted, and then. And then led the team in receptions, 44 and receiving yards. In 2023, transferred to Tennessee, was fourth on the team in receiving yards. Maybe it was a. Excuse me. Maybe it was a tough transition. Yeah, but he sat behind Dante Thornton, Brew McCoy and Squirrel White. And so he was kind of, you know, playing his role. Finally gets to. Gets to become the top dog and goes for over a thousand receiving yards. Now, I don't want to get this twisted. He's a big receiver. 6 4. Actually, he's listed 6 5. My guess is he'll be 64 and a lot of change. But he's only around 200 pounds, so he's tall and he's lean. He's not the twitchiest like after the catch or even as a route runner. But what he is, is he's a guy that's like sharp and sudden in his movements. I. The more I studied him, the more I gained an appreciation because everyone's going to tell you this. The Brazil is a. He just runs nine routes. He's a vertical guy. And yeah, he does that and he does it really damn well. And people will tell you he's not a contested catch guy. Right. Only 38.9% on contested catches. That's a fact. I want to see him get bigger and stronger. This is why he's not a first rounder. But when I'm looking at him and it's different. Like obviously Denzel Boston is just awesome on contested catches. Malachi Field, same thing for, for Notre Dame. Carnell Tate broke out as a contested catch guy this year. All bigger receivers. Brazil's going to be a little different. But what I like about him is and people are going to tell you that he doesn't catch the ball well early in his career. He had some drops this past year, just two on 99 targets. So get that the contested stuff's real. The drop rate you're going to hear about for his career, check it. It's not, it's not accurate. What I like about him is son of an NFL player. I think he's actually refined as a route runner and you know where he does his best work versus zone. He, he like, it's like the cognitive stuff for receivers I think is so underrated. Guys who like can, who can decipher what the coverage is, whether it's zone or man. And if it's, if it's, you know, choice routes, whatever it is. But in this case I just think understanding where to be in zone, understanding the soft spots and settling in, also working back to his quarterback, then kind of getting in and out of his breaks again. He's not after the catch. He's really not that big of a threat after the catch, believe it or not. But he's a 4 4, I would guess a 4, 45 guy. It's 6 foot 5 listed, 200 pounds and I don't need a ton of catches even though he had a good amount this year. I need the big plays. He's going to provide that. But I also think as an intermediate route runner and versus zone, he's going to be a guy that comes in and is pretty well equipped to, to excel now. Get bigger, get stronger, a little bit more physical. The catch point, I think his game will continue to ascend. This is his first real season as the guy and he went for over a thousand. He absolutely destroyed Georgia. We all know that. But there were other games where he was like, it wasn't just the one game. So I brazel to me, I'm just intrigued. Like God only makes so many 6 foot 5 receivers that can get vertical like that. Give me, give me one of them. You know, in a, in a passing offense you've got a lot of big receivers who are the X receiver who do the physical things and out muscle guys and that's great. And we got a lot of them in this year's draft. There are nine guys right now, Mensch, nine that I would characterize as, as first and second round draft prospects. Brazil's one of them. I would put him at like 5, 6 in the list. But he's a player that kind of flew for some reason, flew under the radar. Even when Tennessee was having outside of that Georgia game, there just was not a lot of talk about CB2 this year.

Daniel Jeremiah (23:42)

Yeah, it's kind of, I mean maybe it's because of the Aguilar was. They were hot early on and Egler got a little consistent. So maybe that was some of it. But I, I, I have no notes on this.

Todd McShay (23:52)

And give me a quarterback who can drive it down the field to him too.

Daniel Jeremiah (23:56)

Yes. I don't think he gets out of the second round. We'll see how he runs and if there's a really disappointing time, then we'll have. It's going to be a different conversation. I don't expect that. I think it's going to run really well and if he runs really well with that frame, I'm with you all the way on that player. I think I would be surprised if he gets out of the second round based on what we know now.

Todd McShay (24:15)

Can I just throw in something on the side real quick and talk about. Yeah, that's my guy.

Daniel Jeremiah (24:20)

What's up?

Todd McShay (24:22)

I'm not that far away from absolutely hijacking Denzel Boston.

Daniel Jeremiah (24:33)

No, you can't have him.

Todd McShay (24:35)

I have to all year. I'll trade anything for him. I actually, I actually think he might be the best receiver in this class. I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. I actually think he might be the best receiver in this class. I know he's not going to run great in the 40. Give me a, give me anything sub 4. Give me a 4. 52 at his size and let me finish up my tape. My tape tape. I've done my lemon tape. I want to finish up my Jordan Tyson tape. Although I'm getting pretty deep into there. I don't know, man. I know this isn't about that. This isn't show. This show isn't about that. I'm just saying the only way I can hijack them is to do something brash and I'm not doing it for the, for the splash of it all. What about Denzel? Boston is an NFL starter right away and like 80 catches. What about him? Speed?

Daniel Jeremiah (25:37)

You're not asking Me, right. Like, I mean, I've had him, I'm asking. I've had him early the whole time. Yeah, yeah.

Todd McShay (25:43)

But I might have to trump them. All right, go ahead. This is.

Daniel Jeremiah (25:47)

So we're gonna do a study on how you feel about this wide receiver class. I'm interested to see what your rankings are on these guys because you're, this is not like you. You're casting a wide net with this group. You like you.

Todd McShay (25:58)

There's not a lot of guys for what he is second round. I trust him. I, I think Antonio Williams is vastly underrated coming out of Clemson.

Daniel Jeremiah (26:07)

Yeah, you're not over inflating value either.

Todd McShay (26:09)

I really like Concepcion for what he is. Slot receiver right after catch Zachariah Branch branches. She's the ultimate guy. I love the big receiver. I, I think Malachi Fields is grossly underrated. After watching Senior bowl and going back and studying his tape on the flight home. I, I love Tate. I really like, I really like Tyson. I love Lemon, but I recognize, you know, he's not, he's not 6 2, 6 3, 6 4, 6 5. I like them all. I think they're eight or nine receivers who were legitimately like impact players as rookies and throughout their career. It's a fun receiver class.

Daniel Jeremiah (26:50)

It is. I'm, I'm there with you in the depth and I think we're going to talk about this more later. So I don't want to get into it too much. I'm there with you in the depth. I'm not there with you on these guys being necessarily like the elite talent. That should be necessarily definite top 10 picks.

Todd McShay (27:04)

I don't disagree totally. Not a great top 10 overall. So I'd rather take, take a really good player. But go ahead, Drew.

Daniel Jeremiah (27:11)

All right, we're getting to my next guy. It's UCF Edge, Central Florida Edge. Malachi Lawrence, who's had 19 and a half sacks over the last 36 games the last three years. Good, not elite length. I think he had 33 and a half inch arms, so it's pretty good. 33 and a half inch arms at the east west game. I like how he works off contact. I like how he's either going to shoot both hands or he's going to work a stab move and then work off of that to get off the block quickly. I think he's really good. I think he bends well and is able to, as you say, further the rush through contact. I, I, I messed it up. I had it earlier. What, how do you say it? Advanced advance the rush through contact. Right.

Todd McShay (27:54)

There you go.

Daniel Jeremiah (27:54)

Yep. Yes. So he's able to do that. I really like that. I think he closes well. I think he's a high motor guy. Already talked about the production. He's, he's a little bit leaner. I would like to see him put on 10 to 15 pounds and play defensive end on four man front. Because one of his weaknesses is that he's tight in space and it can affect his ability to, to finish as a pass rusher. The other thing I will say is that right now, as much as he does work off of contact, I think this is a unique thing for him. Even when he works off contact, he's always looking to, to turn the corner. He does not work inside enough. I want to see that part of his game develop. But in an edge class that I really like. If you're looking for a guy that could be in the middle rounds and I think he could be Potentially a top 100 player, you could do worse than Malachi Lawrence. He's a guy to keep an eye on if you're not going to be able to get one of these edges early and teams value them so much. I think his best football's still ahead of him and he's got some really nice tools.

Todd McShay (28:52)

It's interesting you went with a UCF edge. It's not Nigela Kelly who was at the scene. I know with the law 35 and, and a quarter.

Daniel Jeremiah (29:02)

Had a really good Senior bowl too. I mean those, both those guys can play, man. He's another one to keep an eye on. Both of those guys can play this edge group again. Maybe not elite town at the top or as much elite talent you might have in other classes, but deep. There's a lot of depth in this class. The more I get into it.

Todd McShay (29:19)

I like it. I like how you're, you're, you're digging deep. My final guys are Mason Thomas and he's from Oklahoma. I just love him. I love the way he plays the game. I know he's undersized. He's listed 6, 2, 2, 49. My guess is he's going to be like 6016, 255 at the combine. You see there that only the 18 tackles. Is he great versus the run? No, but he's disruptive enough. He's a really good feel for keeping blockers off his body. But will if, if locked up in what we used to call a phone booth and now we call it tight alley or a closet or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, he's, it's not going to be ideal for him, but I see guys like Nick Bonito.

Daniel Jeremiah (30:07)

That's the obvious one, right?

Todd McShay (30:08)

Yeah. And then Nuosu is a comp D. Ford is another one that you'll see a lot. Right. With the Chiefs. Those guys, Ford and Nuosu have, were, you know, have dealt with injuries. And then obviously our Mason Thomas is coming off the injury with the leg after the Tennessee return for, you know, a huge return that really swung that entire game and swung the entire season for Oklahoma. I just think certain guys know how to rush the quarterback and, and one play it's a outside in move. The next one it's, it's dip and rip. The next one it's this hand to hand combat or like it's almost like jujitsu. The next one it's speed to power. Like he does like everything that you want to see an edge deploy. He's gotten his bag. He's instinctive. He has a sense for setting up offensive tackles and it's not like he played at a small school or even like the acc. He was doing this at the SEC level and against pretty good offensive tackles. Right. And so I don't know, I just, I, I think certain guys, so much of it is about being slippery and so much of it is about using leverage and having bend and having like different ways to get offensive tackles off guard. And I think he does a special job of it. Now we get this edge class. It's really good. Another class, kind of like the wide receiver class is better than we thought coming in the year and it's better than last year's. The edge class. Last year all we talked about outside of Shador and Cam Ward and then eventually Jackson Dart was how great that edge class and the running backs. Running backs and edge, if we were talking position strength, it was edge, running back, running back, edge. Well, this year I think there are nine guys just like last year that could go in the first two rounds and our Mason Thomas isn't going to be one of the top guys. That's going to be David Bailey from Texas Tech. It's going to be the Miami guys, Bain and Messador. But I think when you get into that like next tier of guys, that our Mason Thomas is right there with them. I really do. And I hope he works out well. I hope he's not like closer to 6:1 than he is 6:2. I hope he's in the mid-250s and not in mid-240s, all that stuff. But, but I think Our Mason Thomas is going to be a steal for a team because it's hard to get in the second round. An edge rusher that's this refined and proven. And I. I think our Mason Thomas is that guy.

Daniel Jeremiah (32:56)

Yeah. I think the numbers would be better if he was healthy the whole year. I think that's true.

Todd McShay (33:00)

Yeah. That was nine games, essentially. What. What that production was.

Daniel Jeremiah (33:03)

What I. Yeah. Right. And. And I'm not even sure he's healthy in some of those games. You know, you. You tell me. I love the value of what he's gonna be because I think he's gonna go a little bit. I think he should go where you have him, and I think he's going to go a little bit later than that. I think people. Teams are going to be scared off the frame. About the frame. They shouldn't be. They shouldn't be scared about the frame. We've seen.

Todd McShay (33:24)

Benito was a rounder, right? Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (33:27)

But, I mean, do you think he'd be a second rounder if we redrafted that draft? Hell, no. So people get scared off by that frame. They shouldn't. They shouldn't. Depending on. Again, you're right. Is he going to show up at 235? I don't think so. But if he's in the mid-240s or 250, I'm not worried about it. I'm not. And he's 6:2. I'm not worried about it because of the reasons you mentioned the value for him. There's. If you're taking a guy in the top 10, I want a guy who looks like Miles Garrett. We all do. Or a top five guy. You know what I mean? Or we want an explosive guy, like some of the elite passwords come out recently. But that being said, if you're talking about getting a day two guy and it's going to be our Mason Thomas, sign me up. Sign me up for that kind of a value pick.

Todd McShay (34:09)

All right. I love. I love. That's my guy. Right? But I also love Super Bowls, man. As our good friend Pete Sousa used to say. It was his actual college thesis in. In an effort to try to get awareness on how we shouldn't have classes or work on Monday after the Super Bowl. His call, literally. His college thesis, like his thesis paper. I don't want to know what grade he got on. It was Super Bowl Sunday. Dot, dot, dot. Super, indeed. Who doesn't love the super bowl, right?

Daniel Jeremiah (34:41)

It's amazing.

Todd McShay (34:42)

But also, who doesn't love Scout Motors, this partnership. We have a Scout Motors means, means the world. I already told you I've got the printout here. I'm already registered 2027. I'm getting a Scout Motors vehicle. So. But I also want to as part of what we're doing with Scout Motors, it's about roster building. So I want to get into all that. But first, now it's time for from the draft to the bowl brought to you by Scout Motors. Like a lot of the decisions made during the draft, Scout Motors is looking to the future with the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. With plans for body on frame construction, optional 35 inch tires and more, they'll be ready for any challenge from harsh winter roads to no roads at all. All right, Match, I want to talk about this roster building and I want to get your picks for the game. We'll go to fanduel, another one of our amazing partners in, in this show and is, you know, we appreciate our partners especially with Scout and Fanduel. What they've done to step up to support our show is remarkable and we're forever in, in debt. But roster building before we get to the picks and who we like and maybe some, some ways to win some money. Roster building. It's been fascinating to watch, right? The Patriots on one hand going through the lull they had didn't draft all that well even under Belichick for a while but the last couple years what a quarterback, a left tackle and some other spots can do with hand picking, some free agency. Walk me through what you've been most impressed Mike Vrabel, the culture, players first empowerment. Like there's a palpable energy when watching the Patriots whether you do it live or on television. What has it been about the Patriots that stood out to you and what they've done with with Elliot Wolf as the general manager and variable now as the head coach.

Daniel Jeremiah (36:37)

Well, let's go back a year, right? I mean, how's this going to work? Or is there going to be a healthy marriage here? Is there going to be, is this going to be, you know, good decision making in a group that maybe wasn't, you know, was being thrown together a little bit. And let's be honest, I mean they've done nothing but kill it. You talk about the free agency and the, and the veterans they brought in and the culture. Milton Williams, a defensive tackle who they spent a lot of money on, has been a closer in games when he's been healthy. The run defense is different with him in the lineup. I mean that's just one of the Guys, you want to talk about free agency, but I don't know if people realize how much that that group just absolutely crushed the draft. I mean, we could. We're going to talk about Will Campbell a lot, but you got a guy. I don't care what you say. They're starting left tackles better than it was a year ago. So they got a starting left tackle, they got a starting left guard, they got two contributors on offense and Kyle Williams at receiver and Trayveon Henderson at running back. Then you get a safety and Craig Woodson in the fourth round who's turned into a pretty damn good safety for them right away. So we're talking about three starters and two contributors in one draft. The first draft with Rabel there and the first draft with Rabel working with Elliot Wolf. Like, you can't, you can't speak highly enough of the job that they did in terms of turning that roster over.

Todd McShay (37:54)

On the other side, you've got, you've got Seattle, right? And Mike McDonald has been a treasure and like what he has always done defensively, but also as a leader, we've seen now, right? I just. John Schneider, I've told you, I've known him for, forever, since I was a puppy in this business. He is one of the most respected evaluators. And I, I remember calling Dan on the phone after last year, after the big trade was made. You know, it was, it was DK Metcalf out, it was Geno Smith out, it was bring in Sam Darnold, acquire some extra picks. What, what's, what are we doing here in Seattle? And I sat there in my bedroom, actually in a chair talking to Dan through a newsletter that I wanted to get out there because I, I just, I know John well enough and I know the background and it, it was brilliant. And if you can probably go in the McShay report, you can go back and, and, and, and go in the archive and read that article from, from basically a year ago almost to the date, like right around last, right around this time last year, maybe 11 months ago. And it was, it's almost like Bill Walsh, first of all, get out ahead of it. Geno Smith was one of the more underrated quarterbacks in the league for a long time, but aging, you know, 35, whatever the age is. And, and why are we. And they made an offer they thought was reasonable, but it wasn't accepted. And so it's like, all right, time to move on. And then identifying Sam Darnold had one good year, didn't finish well. Are we going to bet everything on it. But we can get a guy for less money, who's younger, who's more talented and just had a big year and bring him in. And we're going to try to build this thing and we're going to build it with draft picks and we're going to build it with smart financial decisions and we have a coach that we believe in and all of a sudden now Gray's able. Nick, Eamon, Warri, you know, you've got this draft class, you've got. You got Sam, you've got a team that you've been building quietly kind of behind the scenes. And they knew that they were better in a lot of spots than people seem to think. And to see it all come together, I honestly, I thought it might be next year for Seattle. I didn't know it was going to be this quick. But to see that happen and to know what John's now like with the ex with the draft picks and. And the youth at quarterback, they're built to last for the next few years, man. They really are.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:35)

No question. And I think the personnel story of the year is Sam Bradford. I mean, it cost one general manager his job by letting him go and it's sending another team or helps Super Bowl. What'd I say? Bradford.

Todd McShay (40:49)

Bradford. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:51)

Terrible. Terrible. Sam Darnold.

Todd McShay (40:53)

That is the.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:54)

That is the personnel story of the year, I think.

Todd McShay (40:56)

Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:57)

Sam Bradford not playing anymore. Is he out? Is he not?

Todd McShay (41:00)

No. He made some money in this league, though.

Daniel Jeremiah (41:02)

Man, I loved him coming out of Oklahoma.

Todd McShay (41:05)

Couldn't stand her being at his pro day. It was a thing of beauty. No, you're right. And look at where Minnesota is right now. Fired GM this past week, today's from the draft to the bowl was brought to you by Scout Motors and their all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. Popular in the 70s, Scout Motor is planning to combine everything you loved about these cars with improved engineering to build a vehicle that'll make you feel like a champion. Join the wait list@scoutmotors.com Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details.

Daniel Jeremiah (41:51)

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Todd McShay (42:25)

We heard you.

Daniel Jeremiah (42:26)

Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won.

Todd McShay (42:29)

But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap.

Daniel Jeremiah (42:36)

Now you've really won.

Todd McShay (42:37)

Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

Daniel Jeremiah (42:41)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (42:41)

Who do you like in this game? You're a. You're a Patriots fan. I am.

Daniel Jeremiah (42:46)

I was raised a Patriots fan. I will be at a Patriots super bowl party. I do not run from that. My son is a lives and dies by the Patriots. It's. It is what it is. And maybe I'm biased, but I got. I got the Pats 21 20. I'm surprised by the spread. I will say that.

Todd McShay (43:03)

Four.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:03)

I think it's four and a half. Is it still four and a half? Here's. Here's the thing that, that really kind of. Here's why it surprises me and tell me if you agree with this.

Todd McShay (43:12)

Okay.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:13)

I love Sam Darnold. I almost said Bradford again. I almost did it. I love Sam Darnold and I love Mike McDonald. But I think New England has the edge at head coach and at quarterback. It may not be that big of an edge, but I do think there's an edge there. I think that maybe people are sleeping on the New England defense a little bit still, which surprises me.

Todd McShay (43:39)

I don't.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:39)

Four and a half just seems way too high. Just seems way too high with the Wave Rabels coach this team and the role they've been on. And I know Seattle's done the same thing. Man, I have a lot of respect for that Seattle team and it scares me for Seattle's going to attack the left side of the. That, that young rookie offensive line, the left guard Jared Wilson and Will Campbell at left tackle. They're going to attack them and they have a damn good defense, a dam good defense. And I think those are going to be some of the story lines in the game is, you know, Drake, man, can he make plays with his feet. Has that left side of the offensive line stand up? Who's the better coach in this game? It's going to be, you know, all the things that come down to a Super Bowl. I just think that there's enough there to lean New England, but I think it's Going to be a good game.

Todd McShay (44:24)

I like New England with the points. I think four and a half. I think it's going to be a close game. I actually do. I think Seattle's a damn good team. And are they capable of winning by 10? Yeah, they're capable, but I, I don't think New England's going to shy away from anything. I think this is a gritty New England team. I actually think they. They could. I think this is more of a toss up than like the money. I think the money lines. It's like almost plus 200. It's like plus 195 for. For new England. I don't think it's that big of a mismatch. And I do find it interesting. Seattle, well, you got New England. You got New England that played this lousy schedule all regular season. Right Then in the playoffs, you got. This is the first. First quarterback to beat three top five defenses to go to the Super Bowl. Now, granted, it's also the youngest quarterback. He'll be the second youngest quarterback ever to. To play in a Super bowl behind Dan Marino. And if he were to win, it will be the youngest ever. So you have to factor that going on with the shoulder and he had the flu last week and like, so there's just a. There's a lot to factor in there. But I do find it interesting that Seattle all of a sudden is this super team in a. In a season where we all were talking about how there's so much parody and it's not the. It's not like in previous years and the Chiefs are out of it and the Eagles aren't what they were and you know what I mean. But now they're a super team.

Daniel Jeremiah (45:50)

Yeah. It's also the, The. The Darnold narrative is really interesting because he's. He's awesome and I'm so glad that he's doing well.

Todd McShay (45:56)

And, And I think if Seattle wins on Sunday, you better bet on Monday. I'm coming out with the biggest fu of all time.

Daniel Jeremiah (46:02)

As. As you should.

Todd McShay (46:03)

As. And so should he. For so long. On Sam Darnold. I will. I. I've been. I've been quiet. Yep.

Daniel Jeremiah (46:11)

He won't. He. But he should. I. I get the feeling that he won't even. He won't do it, but he should. I'll do it for this, though. The, the narrative, like, he was so good in the NFC Championship game that we seem to just be putting to rest any flaws and weaknesses and now he's arrived and he's. We're going to get that. That.

Todd McShay (46:31)

Version, Darnold.

Daniel Jeremiah (46:33)

Every single time. I keep doing it, man, but we're gonna get him every single time. Yeah, we're gonna get that every single time. And I'm not sure that's the case. I. I'm not sure that people understand two things about the Patriots defense in this game. They have been in on absolute heater. I think they're gonna have the defense backs are gonna have a hard time matching up with Seattle's receivers. Rashid Shahida specifically. I know JSN is the guy that. That number two matchup of Carlton Davis versus Shahid's the one that like, if I'm a New England fan, I'm worried about.

Todd McShay (47:03)

But they're.

Daniel Jeremiah (47:03)

But they are as good as any other team in the league at being able to compete with that receiving core. As good as it is. And the weakness of the Seattle offensive lines, the interior. And I'm not sure people around the country understand how deep and talented with. With Christian Barmore and Milt Williams. They have dudes up front and then they have Tonga and Durden who have played at an extremely high level this year. You're taking away the middle. You're potentially taking away the middle of that run game. Like, I don't know, man. I think it's going to be probably a low scoring game, but I'm not sure people understand how good the New England defense has been.

Todd McShay (47:36)

I've got a four leg parlay that I played today.

Daniel Jeremiah (47:39)

No, here we go. Here we go.

Todd McShay (47:44)

And this doesn't include a winner. I've got. I've got another one. I played a couple things. Just, you know, have some fun. This four leg parlay is plus 8, 15. Four things have to happen. Drake May rushes for 40 plus yards. I think he's going to be on the move in this game. I think it's going to be.

Daniel Jeremiah (48:01)

I agree.

Todd McShay (48:03)

Sam Darnold, this one's going to surprise you. Rushes for 10 plus yards. I. I don't hate it. I actually think in that one's the tough one. Stefan Diggs with 30 plus receiving yards. You know how good he is versus zone versus Manto, man.

Daniel Jeremiah (48:19)

Yeah, I like that. That one that seems like the.

Todd McShay (48:22)

And Cooper cup has been. Has been. Yeah, keep your mouth shut. And Cooper cup has been quietly, really productive in the postseason after, you know, kind of on and off throughout the season. 20 plus receiving yards. So Darnell plus 10 rushing. May plus 40 rushing. Diggs plus 30 rushing. Cup plus 20. Diggs plus 30 receiving and cup plus 20 receiving.

Daniel Jeremiah (48:48)

You know what I'm hot on, What I'm gonna put five or ten on, and I don't want the. I should have looked at what the odds are, but punt return touchdown Marcus Jones and Rashid Shahid are, like, two of the best.

Todd McShay (49:00)

Terrible odds for something that there's terrible odds on.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:03)

I think it was, like, plus 1500 is the last time I looked at it.

Todd McShay (49:07)

I mean, it's still.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:07)

It's. It's as good as they are, they're still going to be pretty good odds on getting a pot return touchdown.

Todd McShay (49:12)

Hoping for a Desmond Howard moment. All right, let's transition. You got those questions for us, right? Plus 800 on fan on fan. Yeah. Fanduels plus 800. Plus 1500.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:25)

It's plus 800.

Todd McShay (49:26)

Oh, it's gone down. Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:28)

People have been hitting it, I'm sure.

Todd McShay (49:30)

I got.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:31)

Yeah, I'm telling you, it's gone down.

Todd McShay (49:33)

I'm telling you.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:36)

Just last night we were talking about it.

Todd McShay (49:37)

So you got cut in half.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:40)

Yeah. Tyler was in on it, by the way. Tyler tells me he's making one bet. Tyler who. Who, like, cannot stop himself, you mean? It's all, like, little bets, but Tyler tells me to make a 1 bet during the Super Bowl.

Todd McShay (49:50)

It was like, yeah, what is it?

Daniel Jeremiah (49:52)

No way.

Todd McShay (49:53)

He.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:53)

I don't even. I forget what it was. It was. He did have something. It was one thing. And I was like, bro, you'll make 15 bets if you make one.

Todd McShay (49:59)

Yeah, he's got heads or tails? Heads on heads on grass, tails on turf, by the way. All right, go ahead. What are the questions? Mailbag time.

Daniel Jeremiah (50:07)

Hey, Todd mentioned, big fan of the show. Do you think more Ohio State, Buckeyes or SEC players go in the first round? That's from Chris Russo.

Todd McShay (50:15)

Chris Russo. I get where you're going with this. This is kind of you, Chris. Let me guess. You're a Buckeyes fan. It's not a good year for the sec. I'll be honest. Three straight national championships for the Big Ten, and the big argument that you could always fall back on as a draft guy is, well, more talents in the SEC every year. And by significant marks, like first round overall by, like, 20, 25, 30. Like, over the years, it's been significant. The difference, not this year. Ohio State, the way I see it, there's four locks that go on round one. That's Arvel Reese, Carnell Tate style, downs and. And. Oh, sorry, Caleb downs.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:06)

Yes.

Todd McShay (51:07)

Not in that order.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:09)

There's so many. It's hard to. Like sometimes. It's hard to keep them and, you know, keep track of them.

Todd McShay (51:13)

There's somebody.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:14)

They are going to go early. Yeah.

Todd McShay (51:15)

Kaden McDonald is a possibility late in the first. Could go early. Second defensive.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:21)

I wouldn't hate it if he went late in the first. Man.

Todd McShay (51:23)

Yeah. The SEC on the other hand, so that's 4 to 5. The SEC on the other hand, as I look through it is like. I'd say six to nine overall. But there. But Reese and Tate and Styles and Downs could possibly. I don't think it's probable, but I. I would bet three of those guys come off the board before. And an SEC guy does in Mansour Delane, as it looks right now, the cornerback from lsu. Go ahead.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:56)

And where's Kelder Falk in all this? It seems like he's falling down the board.

Todd McShay (52:00)

Yeah, we'll see. We got a lot of time left. He's only 20. He's not. The sack production's not there. He's not. But he's got a lot of. A lot of years to develop. Not.

Daniel Jeremiah (52:08)

Not to criticize, Chris, but I would have loved if the question was more Ohio State players In the top 15 or more SEC players. I think it's a blowout for Ohio State in the top.

Todd McShay (52:19)

Oh, it's a blowout Monsoon. Delane and Jermad McCoy are the only ones I could see possibly getting in the.

Daniel Jeremiah (52:24)

It could be four. Nothing.

Todd McShay (52:27)

Yeah, it could be. It's probably going to be four one, four two. C.J. allen, linebacker from Georgia, Monroe Freeling, also from Georgia, offensive tackle Keldrick Falk. As you mentioned Auburn Edge, Kaden Proctor. I'd say more likely than not in the first round. When we get closer after he works out, then the three guys I would say right now are. Are possibilities, but not certainly not locks. Colton Hood. We just saw at the Senior bowl, the cornerback from Tennessee, Cassius Howell, undersized edge rusher, but an absolute terror this past year for Texas A and M. And also from A and M, the wide receiver Casey Conception. You know, that 9 would be the most as I see it right now, but I'm guessing it's going to be closer to like seven.

Daniel Jeremiah (53:11)

So, yeah, I had eight to four. So I don't think it's close in the first round, but early it's all of Iowa State. All right, next. Next one. Ready?

Todd McShay (53:19)

Yep.

Daniel Jeremiah (53:20)

In a perfect world, I think the best route for the Rams is to take a guy they like at quarterback and let them sit behind. Let him sit Behind Stafford for one to two years with McVeigh I have my eyes set on Ty Simpson and Garrett Nussmeier. Do either of you prefer the fit of one quarterback over the other?

Todd McShay (53:43)

I think Ty Simpson's more talented.

Daniel Jeremiah (53:46)

The production and tape are definitely better this year.

Todd McShay (53:50)

I mean this year, even if the best of that seven game stretch I know is the first nine, he was outstanding. But let's say eight game stretch, even after Florida State versus the best eight games of Nuss Meyer's career. Edge Ty Simpson.

Daniel Jeremiah (54:07)

I agree.

Todd McShay (54:07)

Ty ties a little bit more, ties a little bit more mobile. I think Ty's got a little bit more juice in his arm. I think they're both grew up in the game. One's a college head coach's son, the other one's a son of an offensive coordinator, quarterback coach and NFL quarterback. And I, I certainly think edge to Nussmeier in terms of like instincts deciphering, all that, but like not that big a gap and they're both just damn good at those things.

Daniel Jeremiah (54:43)

I listen man, tell me if you don't do this too but like I'll be doing things like grocery shopping, I'll be in the shower, picking up Stella from school, whatever it is. And I'll start thinking to myself about where I have guys ranking and I cannot ranked. I cannot get your voice out of my head about the snaps. And it's starting to really scare the hell out of me with Simpson as I know I, I love the run like that, that run that you talked about and I agree with everything you just said. It is really starting to scare the hell out of me. Now if he goes in this situation and he sits for a year, I think that that softens the impact of that maybe. But man, I don't. It's just Mac, the ghost of Mac Jones. It's right there. I don't know, man. And I know they're different players. I don't want to get into that argument. I know, I know, I know it's not a comp. But when you look at the, the school, the one year that's, that's what I'm talking about. And it's just, I don't know, the longer this process goes, this more like the more scared I get about it.

Todd McShay (55:47)

Yeah, I think one, I think one is going to require a first round pick, the other is going to require a second if you're a Rams fan. I think either way I'd rather tie Simpson. I'd rather tie Simpson, period. I'm not going to freak. I'm not going to freak out if the Rams, anyone else did without their situation and their offensive coach and McVeigh. If anyone else took Ty Simpson in the 13 range, I'd be like, not like, no, no, no, no, no, no. But with playing one year or maybe even two more years and with McVay there, I think it feels to me like it's the best path for Ty Simpson's success in the NFL.

Daniel Jeremiah (56:42)

Flash forward. Los Angeles, California. First night of the draft, on the ringer set with the second overall pit pick, the jets select Ty Simpson out of Alabama. I. Nothing would make me happier to see that reaction. It wouldn't make me happy long term.

Todd McShay (56:58)

Because it's not, they're not going right.

Daniel Jeremiah (56:59)

Thankfully, but I don't think so either. But man, watching you go, no, no, no, no, would be, would be pretty fun. All right, we're going on to question number three. My question is regarding how you guys, how you guys and NFL teams view different rounds of the draft and value. Do teams automatically assume a first rounder is a starter and a sixth is a backup and does it vary by position? I think this is a good time. I think you do a really good job of this, but it's a good time to remind people maybe of how our grading system works and how you view different grades in different, different rounds. Yeah.

Todd McShay (57:34)

When we started this thing like 25 years ago with Gary Horton, who started it as the war room, we had a, a grading scale that it was a lot more similar or equivalent to like what we've come to know. A lot of NFL teams have like, I know we know guys with like the Ravens over the years, you know, like the 6.8, 6.1, you know.

Daniel Jeremiah (57:55)

But.

Todd McShay (57:55)

Then we got to ESPN and they wanted to make it more like reader friendly and, and we did a hundred scale. So basically anything in the 30s was considered like 31 to 39, was a SEP. Essentially became a seventh rounder all the way up to like nine 90 to 100, which we never had 100 player became a first rounder. And so it became like equivalent to. But it wasn't always like, we may only have, you know, 12 first round grades and there's going to be a bunch of guys that, that we would mock in this anyway, long, short, we always grade by like this guy is, is in the 90s to us is going to be like a Pro bowl player for whatever that is these days after watching that fraud of a flag football game. But you know what I mean, like perennial or unanimous all Pro, like, and then we've, we've scaled it back from there. Let me simplify this for you in like all things in kind of 30 foot, 30,000 foot view when you're drafting a player in the first round there's so much concern about that player not hitting that. I do think there's some paralysis by over analysis sometimes but I do think the risk is so great with the money that you're paying that rookie versus the money you're paying. There's a huge difference between the 10th pick which is going to be upwards like high $30 million range over a four year contract and a handful of million for the 40th pick. Right. The first round pick you can't afford to miss on because you believe he's going to be a starter and hopefully an impact player and hopefully like a star on your team. But at the very least you better be a good starter for you the second round. I still believe it's. It's absolutely starter. Ideally it's starter from day one. This is all positions but quarterback. Quarterback is you dropped in the first round. He's going to start year one, draft him in the second or third. You're planning on developing him to be a starter but under with an understanding that probably not, you know, probably not going to be a great starter. And it's so rare to find someone outside the first round these days. Even though you have the Brady examples and the Brock Purdy examples and Jalen hurts.

Daniel Jeremiah (60:19)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (60:20)

Yes. But all other positions, second round is going to be a good starter and they got to start right away. Third round is usually kind of now all right, is it, is it a sub package role like a nickel corner, some special teams value but like you still planning on that guy being a starter in some capacity or a significant contributor. Then you get the day three and as the rounds go on it is. It's absolutely like backup role player. But obviously you want to hit on all these guys like you know, but, but then you get into. I think in the second round you're a lot more likely to take a risk on a talented player that has first round talent with an injury or a character concern or something like that. I think when you get in the fourth, fifth round it's about traits, specialization, developmental upside. Yeah, one of the two, it's this developmental upside. I see something in him or he's not yet there and but, but we think we can in our system with our coaching staff we can rise them up. The other hand it's a specialization thing. It's a kickers, punters, long snappers, but more Importantly, I mean, like, he could play a role on our team. We need depth. We could use a number 4, 5 receiver. But he also can help either in the return game or as a gunner, you know, so that's what, what kind of goes into the people's mind, you know, NFL evaluators minds when it comes to that day three, how do you.

Daniel Jeremiah (61:52)

Feel about giving a quick hit on positional value and how that might affect how a team drafts or maybe how you draft? Let's put it this way. Let's say you have a 92 on a Jeremiah Love and a 90 on Reuben Bane. Maybe not the best example. Do you even like, you know, people always like, just trust your board. Take the best player on the board. I think that's. And tell me if I'm wrong. I think that's kind of when you get into the, the coupling scenario of we can have Reuben Bain in the first round and pick a running back that you like in the second round. Maybe in, you know, Nick Singleton, I don't know. Pick a running back that you like, good value in the second round. Do you necessarily just take the best player on your board? It doesn't. Shouldn't affect your grade, right? It should not affect your grade.

Todd McShay (62:36)

I think a lot of teams are going to have a. The hot. Their highest graded player is Jeremiah Love.

Daniel Jeremiah (62:43)

But they might not draft them, right? I mean they're, they're.

Todd McShay (62:45)

Well, yeah, it's only for teams that actually have a need at running. But if you have a starting running back or two guys that you feel really good about, it's hard to pass up on a position, you know, a position player. But that number better be like touching each other. So like. Yeah, and for us, A93 better be touching A92 or else we're starting to take player like Ruben Bane isn't good enough for me to not take Jeremiah Love unless I have a star running back already, you know.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:14)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (63:15)

And then you're trying to trade out. I mean there's a lot of factors that go into it. What's unique about this class, man? Three of the highest graded players are positions that we can wide that are widely considered like not that valuable. There's not positions of value or positions of priority, however you want to phrase it. Running back Jeremiah Love, linebacker Arvell Reese, safety Caleb Downs. So it's going to be an interesting year with a lot of teams, I think, trying to trade back. But good luck finding a dance partner.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:45)

Yeah. Right here. Our next question. I want to ask about the running back class this year.

Todd McShay (63:51)

Yep.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:52)

I've heard. I've seen and heard that it's a weaker class. I'm not really sure that's the case anymore, but I think it was at one point. But I really enjoy watching some of the guys behind Jeremiah Love, who's obviously that guy like Jadarian Price, Emmett Johnson, Demond Clayborn and Seth McGowan. Do any running backs or other projected day two, three guys stand out as backs who can have an immediate impact in a specific role in, in the league.

Todd McShay (64:18)

I'll let you handle a lot of this question, but I'll say this. I. I think you, you touched on a lot of the guys that I would put in there, starting with Jadarian Price. I think he's going to have an immediate impact in the, in the role that he's going to play. I think he's used to playing at that number two role and, and go.

Daniel Jeremiah (64:35)

Ahead and in the return game. I think he, he's a guy that could cover. He could carve out a role pretty quick. Emma Johnson out of Nebraska I really like too two other guys. One was at the Senior bowl or two or both were at the Senior Bowl. One is like, I'm really high on now and I think I'm just to see how well he runs because he had Drew Fabianas just released the zebra technology and Mike Washington from Arkansas at 228lbs was the fastest player on the field that week. And then you look at his tape and his production and I, I just think there's a. He's. I think he's going to be a day two back and I'm not sure that was the case, which is saying.

Todd McShay (65:12)

A lot because there were only six guys last year and one of the best running back classes we've ever evaluated.

Daniel Jeremiah (65:18)

Right. So I think he could be a day two guy. The other guy that I just. I can't get out of my mind. And I'm not sure he's going to go in the second or third round, but if he's there early day three, I'm having a hard time saying no. And that's Catron Allen out of Penn State. We talked a lot about Nick Singleton and how he'll probably be the first Penn State running back off the board. And I get that because he's going to run better. Keton Allen ran for over 4,000 yards at Penn State. Man, he had 39 touchdowns.

Todd McShay (65:42)

They trusted him more. He's.

Daniel Jeremiah (65:44)

But he's also. I get that you're right.

Todd McShay (65:46)

His instincts are so Far greater than that of Singleton's. That I'm giving you this answer because, because we questioned it. And I'm telling you this is the factual answer that I've gotten to the bottom of.

Daniel Jeremiah (65:58)

Okay?

Todd McShay (65:58)

There was a trust level with Katron, recognizing he doesn't catch the ball as well, recognizing he's not as explosive. They just didn't trust Singleton the way they trusted Catron K Tron when it was blocked up. Got it. Catron sticking his nose in it, not dancing around, not looking for something extra. He just took what was available and that's what they needed and that, that's what they went with. And they love his instincts, they love his toughness, they love all those things. They recognize he's not the, the big play weapon. But you know what? Ramandre Stevens is not the talent, the Trayvon Henderson. But I promise you this, Ramandre is going to get more touches in the super bowl and Trayvon is probably going to play a role and he might have a 55 yard run, might break that sucker open, right? But there's different roles. And so when we're talking about roles, that's, that's what you're looking at with Penn State. That's the why behind it. Just like Jadarian Price is going to play a different role, while still valuable than that of Jeremiah Love. There are a couple other guys that I like in the role and I like for the value. Le'Veon Moss I still think is talented, can he stay healthy. But you bring him in as your number two, number three back with a day three pick. Probably the only six backs went last year. I don't know that Le'Veon Moss is going to be one of the first six backs off of the board. If we even have six backs drafted in the first three rounds. Moss is intriguing to me because the talent is there. I really, really am intrigued by Adam Randall, a guy who's been a full time running back for one year and improved that much at 200 and what, 33 pounds, 6 foot 2. He is a big dude. Watch standing next to him on the field, man, you and I, he was like, which one of these doesn't look like the others?

Daniel Jeremiah (67:40)

Right?

Todd McShay (67:41)

And then he was one of the fastest players, you know, after the first two days at the Zebra Technology. And I also have this weird appreciation now for Calen Black from India.

Daniel Jeremiah (67:52)

Oh, yes. I don't know how I didn't think of him.

Todd McShay (67:55)

And it's in the right system, reading blocks, as you said, like hugging his blockers. Protecting the ball pad level. I don't know. I just think he's going to be a day three pick that may wind up next year. As a rookie, we're like, man, Black should have gone earlier.

Daniel Jeremiah (68:13)

Yeah, I think those are three good values. Again, I keep saying it. There's some depth in this class. It's not, it's not the elite running back class that we saw last year, but there's some, there's some players I really like. Those are three guys that I think could be really good values. Yeah, that was from Ben L, by the way. I don't know if I mentioned that, so. Thanks, Ben. Number five. In your minds, how big of a drop off is there between the first and second tier of wide receivers this year? In other words, is there a big talent difference between Denzel Boston? Denzel Boston kind of answered this in the likes of Casey's Concepcion, Chris Basel ii, Chris Bell, etc. That's from Travis and Kenny Bunk, I think.

Todd McShay (68:49)

Here's the difference. To me, the first four can kind of do it all. With the caveat that Lemon doesn't. Makai Lemon from USC doesn't look like the other three. The other three are in whatever order you have them. Jordan Tyson from Arizona State. Sorry. Carnell Tate from Ohio State and Denzel Boston from Washington. Denzel Boston is your true X. Big, physical, not gonna run great, but my gosh, is he talented. I talked about him earlier on the show. Carnell Tate is taller, not as tall as, as Boston, I don't think. I think they're like a half an inch inch difference maybe.

Daniel Jeremiah (69:31)

I don't think he is. Yeah, I don't think he's quite as tall.

Todd McShay (69:34)

He's not as thick on tape but, but still like contested catches a little bit. I would say Tate is a little more of like smooth, fluid. I don't know, I just, I love both of them. Jordan Tyson is also a bigger guy, but more like Debo, bigger than he is 6, 4, you know, and then you got Lemon who's 511 and change, but he's 196 and he's, he's thickly built. And my goodness, everything, everything that Lemon does, he looks like he's on a. On rails. Remember the old saying like the 80s, like corners, like it's like it's on rails. Talking about like a Ferrari or something. He's not. But he's not a 43 guy. He might not. He might be mid 4 fours, high 4 fours, but everything's sudden. And on a rail, there's no Wasted motion. He catches the ball so everything is.

Daniel Jeremiah (70:31)

Clean.

Todd McShay (70:34)

Pluck on the run like the contested catch against Iowa the tracking the ball vertically beautifully. He is the cleanest pass catcher. I'm not saying he has the strongest hands or the best this or that. Just the cleanest of the receivers I've done at least then you get to the second group we've talked about those are more fit your role. We talked about Brazil who's the vertical receiver but he's not going to be great contested catch all that but he's still super talented at 65200 Casey Concepcion punt return or return specialist in addition to yards after catch. Pretty good intermediate but like yards after catch get him the ball a little bit of space. Branch is like I think just. I think he's conception but like yeah lightning. You know Antonio Williams is. Is not. He's going to be your Z receiver, slot receiver type but I think he can run some. Some really good intermediate routes. He can do some things beyond what they asked him to do when he was able to do it at at Clemson. Jeremy Bernard is not going to be super fast. Not great versus man to man. If you go look at his splits. Outstanding. One of the best receivers in the country versus zone soft spots reliability working back to the quarterback all those things. Chris Bell is getting a lot of A.J. brown comps. I don't think he. He's not that talent wise but he looks like him and he's supposed to four threes as you mentioned and he's a big time player after the catch but with also with size I think I mentioned all of them. That's a. Oh and Malachi Malachi field.

Daniel Jeremiah (72:20)

I was gonna ask you 6, 4, 2 what 18.

Todd McShay (72:25)

My goodness. Does he look like a star wide receiver and then the ability to adjust the ball down the field so this class is a lot of fun. There's a lot of different types of but you can almost break them into like you get the big guys and you got the. The more like versatile smaller guys and then don't all do the same exact things but there's two different groups.

Daniel Jeremiah (72:52)

Yeah And I think we're missing a big part of the puzzle right now and we'll get into this when the time comes but it's gonna. This is what's going to be fascinating about Indy. I can't wait to see who works out and how they work out because there are guys a couple guys in that second group. I don't think there anyone's going to pass the top four. I don't think anyone's going to crack the top four, but there's some guys in that group that I think and Brazil's one that I have my eye on who could bridge the gap from maybe being a tier two guy to a tier one guy. It'll be interesting to see like if Malachi Fields stuns the world and runs super well. I mean this all of a sudden, you know, that'll be fun to see what happens there and that we'll talk about that as we get closer.

Todd McShay (73:31)

All right.

Daniel Jeremiah (73:32)

This will be a fascinating last question here from for you here. McShay, we got a Patriots fan and Austin Hurley wants to know. I'm wondering about how this draft could set up long term plans with the offensive line. I don't know why he would ask that. Sorry, Todd, more of a Steve question. So maybe I should just handle this one. I like Will Campbell as a leader on the team, but after watching his.

Todd McShay (73:55)

Rookies, why do I feel like this show just got hijacked? Is this thing are we even doing this?

Daniel Jeremiah (74:00)

He has struggled, by the way. Austin Hurley also my burner name and he says struggle to not only after the injury with the upcoming draft in what seems to be a deep tackle class. I mean you seem to like, I mean you're just throwing guys in the first round. Now if the Pats would be best served to draft a tackle at hopefully the 32nd pick in the first round. Austin thinking ahead there. I like it. Then the plan would be moved Campbell the left guard and move Jared Wilson back to his college position at center. Garrett Bradbury apparently on the way out. Sorry Garrett. Love the bot pod and can't wait for the 2027 draft. I mean I know he's asking me, but what do you think Todd? Do you think that they should target.

Todd McShay (74:36)

A left tackle at the end of.

Daniel Jeremiah (74:37)

The first round if if a Monroe Freelings there?

Todd McShay (74:41)

I think we're taping on Wednesday night for the show to come out on Thursday. I think it's 7pm Eastern Time. I think it's date night in the McShay House and I'll still give you five stars match. I'm out of here. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MDG in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770786.