Our Top 150 Big Board Risers and Fallers. Plus, Don’t Be Surprised If …

Summary

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The McShay Show (The Ringer)

Episode: Our Top 150 Big Board Risers and Fallers. Plus, Don’t Be Surprised If …

Date: April 6, 2026
Hosts: Todd McShay & Steve Muench

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Todd McShay and Steve Muench unveil their updated Top 150 NFL Draft Big Board, discuss notable risers and fallers, and dive into which players—at select positions—are getting late momentum or sliding as the NFL Draft approaches. They also debate the intricacies of positional value, the process of ranking prospects, and offer "Don't Be Surprised If..." predictions. The tone is fun, highly informed, sometimes combative, but always focused on giving listeners deep insight into NFL prospect evaluation and the latest draft buzz.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Table: The Updated Big Board

• [00:06] McShay opens by highlighting the recent release of their Top 150, which now features 100 full evaluations.
• [02:27] McShay emphasizes ongoing tweaks: recent pro days, new character intel, and durability issues are all causing late changes.
• Noted prospects moving: Zion Young (Edge) moving up (will be top 25), Avion Terrell (CB) likely dropping due to slow 40 time and injury concerns.

2. Defining Elite Grades: First- and Second-Round Locks

• [03:10] McShay lists 17 “first-round locks” in any draft, e.g. Jeremiah Love (RB, Notre Dame), Sonny Styles (LB, Ohio State), Fernando Mendoza (QB, Indiana), Caleb Downs (S, Ohio State), and more.
• [06:15] 14 additional "fringe" first-rounders (would go 28-36 in great classes).
• [09:00] 16 prospects graded as definite second-rounders.

“That gives you 47 guys [who] would go in the first or second round, no matter how strong that position was in any NFL draft. It’s not a bad number. It’s kind of right down the middle.” – McShay ([09:21])

3. Debating Individual Player Evaluations

• Kenyon Sadiq (TE, Oregon): The debate whether he's a first-round lock; McShay sees him as borderline, Muench argues he’s clearly in top tier despite size concerns.
• Steve on Sadiq: “He checks so many boxes. Do I wish he was 5-10 pounds heavier? Yeah. But… the talent is through the roof.” ([12:23])

4. Offensive Tackle & Position Clusters

• [15:31] Major movement at OT:

  • Blake Miller: 23 → 13
  • Kaden Proctor: 31 → 17
  • Caleb Lomu: 25 → 20
  • Max Iannotra: 38 → 24

• Muench acknowledges it makes sense for late movement due to positional value, but still feels some are too high—especially Proctor.

  “I’m going to go back and watch every single snap of [Proctor]...I want to make sure I’m buttoned up there.” – Muench ([16:41])

• McShay explains the internal “tug of war” between personal grades and league consensus, emphasizing how positional runs shape the process.

5. Wide Receiver Tiers and Notable Fallers

• Omar Cooper Jr. dropped from 17 → 30, Antonio Williams 39 → 55, Jeremy Bernard 50 → 78.

  • McShay re-watched Bernard and revised him down, seeing him more as a reliable #3 in the NFL.

  “I love the detail… the consistency… but he’s not like, you know… he’s a really good number three.” – McShay ([28:11])

• WR group: Carnell Tate is a “true first” in any draft, but others slide due to lack of elite traits (size, speed, positional value).

• Muench contends Bernard should be WR6 in this class, over Concepcion or Brazel.

6. Defensive Backs and Cluster Analysis

• Trade and Stukes (S, Arizona): Pushed just outside the top 50, but Muench thinks he’ll land in the top 50 by draft day ([32:22]).

• McShay explains difficulty with evaluative “Mendoza lines” like the Top 50—tough calls as the cluster grades are tight.

• Colton Hood, Malachi Lawrence, C.J. Allen, Anthony Hill: prospects where grades are splitting scouts and could slide or rise depending on team need and late intel.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

On Board Accuracy and Bragging Rights

• [03:10] McShay:

“These will not move… last five years, no one has been more accurate in the top 186 out of 100 is what I've averaged—for the last five years. So even… I promise you it’s the most accurate board that’s out there.”

On Twitter vs. Real Intel

• McShay:

“There’s so much dumb information out there that’s just not accurate and doesn’t reflect what the tape tells us… or what NFL teams are telling us.” ([12:04])

Off-Color Running Jokes & Chemistry

• [18:29] The “Coke can” airplane debate and McShay’s Pepsi love draw playful banter.

  Muench: “That might be your worst take of the whole show.”
  McShay: “I’m Diet Pepsi all through and through. Lemon. Perfect.”
  Muench: “Too sweet.”

On Offensive Tackle Runs and Positional Value

• McShay:

“That’s driving the bus, buddy… There’s going to be two positional runs in the first round: offensive tackle and edge.” ([20:13], [22:23])

On Cornerback Debate: Jermad McCoy vs. Monsour Delane

• McShay argues McCoy is “best pure man-to-man cover” corner, while Delane is more complete ([47:32]-[48:22]).
• Muench:

“Delane is twice the corner McCoy is, in my mind.” ([47:35])

“Don’t Be Surprised If…” Segment

• [52:02]

  • Muench: “Don’t be surprised if Florida corner Devin Moore turns into one of the steals in this draft…”
  • McShay: “If you hit on him in round three… yeah, you got a big physical corner who can actually run...force multiplier in the locker room.”

• [56:00]

  • McShay: “Don’t be surprised if Sonny Styles and Carnell Tate both go in the top five…It’s different when you sit back and listen to people in the league. … There’s no yeah, buts.”

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• [02:27-09:21] — Laying out elite grades, defining “true” first and second-rounders
• [15:12-23:22] — Offensive tackle movement and cluster philosophy
• [25:35-31:56] — Deep dive on wide receiver movement and Jeremy Bernard controversy
• [32:22-36:33] — Debate on defensive backs and just-missed-the-cut prospects
• [39:21-47:02] — Jermad McCoy’s injury, business decisions, and agent impact
• [52:02-55:44] — “Don’t Be Surprised If…” segment: deep sleeper and bold top-5 predictions
• [56:00-63:55] — Ohio State prospects Sonny Styles, Carnell Tate, and draft “landscape shaking” implications

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Final Takeaways

• Top Risers: OTs (Miller, Proctor, Lomu, Iannotra), CB Colton Hood, S D’Angelo Pons, RB Jeremiah Love, WR Carnell Tate (now considered by McShay as a genuine top-5 possibility).
• Top Fallers: WRs (Omar Cooper Jr., Antonio Williams, Jeremy Bernard), S Avion Terrell (due to bad 40), some fringy linebackers and edges split among NFL circles.
• Draft Trends: Expect early runs at OT and Edge, league consensus heavily influences certain cluster movements, while “position you can get later” narrative is pushing receivers and interior linemen down.
• Debate Points: Real-time disagreements (McCoy vs. Delane; Sadiq’s draft ceiling); how to balance tape, traits, analytics, and league conversations.
• Under-the-Radar Names: Devin Moore (CB, Florida), D’Angelo Pons (DB), Trade and Stukes (S, Arizona).

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Conclusion

This episode peels back the curtain on the ongoing, nuanced process of draft evaluations, with McShay and Muench offering listeners not just rankings, but street-level insight into NFL front office conversations, how personal grades meet league reality, and why certain prospects will rise or fall in the final days before the NFL draft. The chemistry oscillates between friendly banter and sharp disagreement, making for a dynamic, info-rich listen.

For the most detailed boards and evaluations, listeners are encouraged to check out the full Top 150 and upcoming 4.0 mock draft at theringer.com/mcshay.

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Transcript

[A]

We're winding down on the last few scouting reports, getting calls all the time from NFL teams. Our big board's almost set, and we've got an update for you. Top 150 is live on the site, and we just have 17 days until the NFL Draft. You good, man?

[B]

I'm sweating, man. I'm sweating.

[A]

Roll my favorite beat, T. Top 150 is up on the site. It's our baby. You know, just because you have a newborn doesn't mean you don't love it the same, if not more, a couple weeks later. We just launched it a couple weeks ago, and here we are already with a big update. We had a top 100 with 50 evaluations today live on the site. We've got top 150 with 100 evaluations. We'll get to over 150 evaluations when it's all said and done. We will get to a top 300 board the week of the draft. But today's about kind of walking through where we are in this process. You're listening to the McShay show, presented by FanDuel, and soon we'll all be listening to all the names called in this year's NFL draft. But with FanDuel, you don't have to just listen because FanDuel has all kinds of bets on where players will land. You know, I love this stuff. Not only can you bet on who will be drafted first overall, but you can also bet on whether a player will go in the top five, top ten, and so much more. So if you don't already have it, be sure to download the FanDuel sportsbook app today. Must be 21 and older in select states. 18 plus in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler, call 1-887-8-97-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. You feeling good about it?

[B]

I feel good about where we are.

[A]

I.

[B]

As good as I can be. You know what I mean? This is a. I am the worrier of our group. I am going to always worry about where we are, how far along we are. You know, that just. That's just my nature and. And sometimes it works in my favor. But I actually do feel pretty good about where we are in the process right now.

[A]

All right, so let me. Let me set the table. Okay, I'll set the table with this. It's. We had to lock this in several days ago and already, like, since then. First of all, I've looked at a couple things, like Zion Young, I was too low on and didn't even realize it at the time. I'm going through buckets. I'm having conversations, getting some character stuff in, getting some durability stuff in some pro day numbers. Avion Terrell, the cornerback from, from Clemson, didn't run well at all, then complained of a hamstring injury. Scouts are wondering, is he going to run again? Because right now they've got something around 4, 6 for him. And if that's the number you're starting to see a 46 guy didn't, didn't think he was going to run fast. But Avian Terrell, who's a really good corner, undersized, sticky in coverage, does a lot of good things. But are we looking at a 4, 6 number when he gets drafted? So, so that's a player who's probably going to come down a little bit. Okay, flip side, I mentioned Zion Young Edge, one of my favorite players in this draft. Just kind of an oversight. But like as you go through this, you're doing buckets and kind of moving guys up and so he's going to be in the top 25 when it's all said and done. And next week when we come back with our top 150, you'll expect a little change there. What I will tell you is this, Signetti said, google me. All I do is win, right? I'll say huddle report me the Huddle Report.com last five years if you want the most accurate board and people get crazy when I say this. I don't do a lot of like bragging and Tommy John surgery like patent on the back. However, last five years, no one's, no one has been more accurate in the top 186 out of 100 is what I've averaged 86 for the fast last five years. So even at this point, I promise you it's the most accurate board that's out there. And even with some movement within that top 100, it's, it's still going to be, you're not going to find a better board. So with that bragging done and I, I don't even like doing it, but it's like, yeah, I'm frustrated with a couple things in here and it's a work in progress but we will have it right. And it's, and it's still the most right thing out there on the website. And the website is the ringer.com mcshay. Okay, check it out. We're proud of what it's, what it's become, what it already is. And we're really excited about what we're going to continue to do with this thing. One last thing, Mitch. Here we go. I view it this way. I'm not saying everyone does it like they're true first round grades. There's only nine or 12 guys. I'm saying that there are 17 guys in this draft that are first rounders in every draft and I'm going to rip through them real quickly. Okay? And these are based off of some of our rankings. It's not in perfect order, but. Jeremiah Love, running back, Notre Dame. Sonny Styles, linebacker. Arvel Reese, linebacker, both from Ohio State. Fernando Mendoza, first rounder in every draft, even next year's from Indiana. Caleb Downs, safety, another Ohio State player. Then you get a couple edge rushers. David Bailey, Ruben. Hey, by the way, scumbags, you're going to want to grab your pencils and hit your, your back 15 seconds on this because this is information that I'm giving away for free. These are, these will not move. Okay, so you got Bane and Bailey at edge. Francis Maui Noah, offensive tackle for Miami. So angry Monsoon Delaney. Hey, we're getting 17 days from the draft. Monsour Delane, cornerback, LSU. Also Jermad McCoy, cornerback, Tennessee. We'll talk about that in a little bit. Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks. Carnell Tate, rising wide receiver, Ohio State. Why do I say rising? Because I'm talking to teams in the league and he's going to go higher than people think. I think. Venga. I want a. The offensive guard from, from Penn State. Okay, those are all, all of them locks, first round, any draft. Also Spencer Fano, even with the shorter arms lock in every draft. Blake Miller, another offensive tackle from Clemson. Makai. Let me get to the receivers in a little bit. They're kind of on the fringe, guys. One receiver is a true first in every single class and that's Carnell Tate. After that, Monroe Freeling, despite some of the erratic tape traits, offensive tackle, he's the first rounder. Kaden Proctor, another guy, tape is up and down, but traits, offensive tackle from, from Alabama. So Those are what, 16 guys right there? The 17th being Dylan Thieman, safety, any draft, he's going to be a first rounder in today's NFL because of his versatility and speed. Then you've got a bunch of guys that I would say are fringe first rounders that will Likely that will all go in round one this year and I'm not going to list through all of them, but I've got those guys as 14 of them. So there's 31 guys, 17 are locked first rounders in any draft. There are 14 that are. Yeah, they're going to go in the first round this year, but maybe they would go pick 34, 36 in another great draft if it's loaded at that position. Few of those names. Makai Lemon and Jordan Tyson, wide receivers, right? Yep. Also, also on that list, the two defensive tackles who will go in the first round this year. I'm convinced of it after talking to a lot of NFL teams. Kaden McDonald, Ohio State, Peter Woods, Clemson.

[B]

History tells us that's going to happen. History tells us that there will be at least two.

[A]

Exactly. Kenya and Sadiq. I didn't list him in the 17 to go in first round every single year. He's a fringe guy grade wise, but he's going to go in the first round this year's draft. Tight end out of Oregon, Caleb Loma is another one of those first, second fringe guys. Keldrick Falk, Zion Young, all fringe guys in a given draft. Iannotur Max Iannoto or the offensive tackle from Arizona State. So those are some of the names that get me to, what did I say, 14 guys. Then I've got 16 other guys, Mensch, that are pure second rounders in every draft. Gabe Akis, who I love. I'm talking about what the league thinks. I'm going to have him in the top 32. The league thinks he's the second rounder. Denzel Boston, the league thinks he's a second rounder. Casey Concepcion, every draft, those guys are second rounders. I've got 16 of those guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So my point in this exercise is not only just to lay out the kind of the top of the board and give people some, some context, but it's also to tell you if I've got 17 true first rounders in any class, 14 fringe and then 16 true second rounders. That gives you 47 guys.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's where we are. There's 64 picks in the first two rounds and now there are a bunch of fringe second third rounders and then there are a bunch of third rounders in any draft. So my point in this is there's 47 guys that would go in the first or second round, no matter how strong that position was in any NFL draft. It's not a bad number. It's not a great number. It's kind of right down the middle, but that's where we are. Thoughts, Right?

[B]

There's a lot of good players in this draft. And still, I mean, you could say that's a low number. And I get it. There's still a lot of good players in this draft. My. My mind is on fire because I cannot understand and I didn't want to go here. I, I didn't think we were going to talk about him. But Kenyon Siddiq, as a. As a maybe. As a maybe. Like, I, I just don't think in

[A]

any given draft, I.

[B]

So am I. I don't understand how that's a.

[A]

So last year, I think Tyler Warren and. And Colon Loveland in reverse order came off the board. What, 10 and 14, I think it was to the Bears and Colts, respectively.

[B]

Correct. And you're telling me he's not a top 32 lock? He's not a first round lock.

[A]

I'm saying next year in that loaded class, he may be like, you know, 28 to 35 range. I'm just telling you what my grade and your grade reflects that of a first rounder. Okay. And I've got him. I'm just looking right now. Sadiq. Yeah, it's a 91 grade, but it's not a 93 or. Yeah, it's not a 93 or a 94.

[B]

Yeah, I got you. I just, I just think he's. It seems to me, and some of this is built up from stuff I've. I've seen online with Twitter mafia, that there's been some. I don't know, like, some.

[A]

Stay off, man.

[B]

Stay off of it.

[A]

That time of year, everyone, you've got to really. You got to really get out of there.

[B]

And it doesn't.

[A]

Because what we're talking about here is what conversations we're having with NFL teams combined with, like, I have sat in this room and ignored family and friends and chores and bills and laundry and everything for a long time now. Over a month. And I know you've done the same. So we are like oozing with. With tape and numbers and analytics and opinions combine results and, and, and then conversations with NFL teams. This, that's our Twitter. That's our social media. We don't. You know, but I hear you because, Because I'll scroll through.

[B]

It exists. Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, I just. Gosh, there's so much dumb information out there that's just not accurate and doesn't reflect what the tape tells us and doesn't reflect what NFL teams Are telling us.

[B]

Yeah, I just. I think Ken and Sadiq is. Yeah, no, no, it's good. I just.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

I. I think he's. I think he's up there with the two guys who went last year. I really believe that. I mean, you look at the way the kid works his ass off as a blocker. There were some drops. I understand that. The talent is through the roof. The production is, I think, a lot better than people realize. Or at least better than people realize. And just. I just don't. I don't get it. I just don't get it. He checks so many boxes. Do I wish he was maybe 5, 10 pounds heavier? Yeah, but we're talking about Eli Stowers being, you know, maybe a guy who crashes the party and gets it late in the first and it's not even close. Their frames. I just. I don't. I don't get it.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he's 2, 241, low percent, shorter arms, 31 and a half. You're talking about like 8. What does it say? 18th percentile, arm length. We're getting. No, I know. I'm just saying, when you ask me, I mean, Loveland was. Was a linear frame, but he was tall, longer. Yeah, Bigger target, bigger catch radius. Those are the things I'm talking about.

[B]

I hear you. I hear you. If you want to say those guys would have gone ahead of him, but that those guys went 10 and 14.

[A]

I mean, he's going, let's transition because. And pull back the curtain a little bit here. I just finished the vast majority. I finished my reports. There's going to be a handful more. And then as we get closer, I'm just. I can't stop with the tape, so I'm just going to keep adding some guys. Excuse me, but my point in this is your. We got a late jump this year because the website and all that. And that's fine because we're building something massive. It's so much bigger than. Than, you know, 150 evaluations this year. You're finishing up your evaluations. We're not communicating the way we normally would at this point in the process. Yeah, I know. It's fine. It's fine.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Starting. Starting later this week is when we start having our draft meetings, you and I. This board reflects more so of. Of my board at this moment. By the time we get there, get to la and. And we're there for the week and leading up to the 23rd, it will be more of a collaborative deal and it's just how the it's just how things are working logistically this year because this website took up so much from our time and Dan's time and Tucker's time building the graphics and, and your time in my time. So we're, I don't want to say playing catch up because we're where we should be in terms of everything, but it was a later jump on it all. So with that said, you look at this board, Steve, and there's some things that are glaring to you, I'm sure, and we haven't talked about it. What stands out that you want to talk about with our top 150 again? Theringer.com McShay go check it out and follow along as you're as you're listening or watching on Netflix. We've got Spotify and Apple and anywhere else you get your podcast in the audio medium, if you will. But what stands out to you?

[B]

Steve I honestly, if I were you, I don't know if I'd answer my phone calls this time of year because traditionally you know what you're getting from me. You come out with the new rankings and men is going to call and I would even like I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I'm almost yelling as soon as you pick up the phone because I don't understand why you've done certain things.

[A]

Now.

[B]

I'm trying to evolve mch. I'm trying to be a bigger man. And there is actually some and I'd like to think I'm getting there because there's actually some things here that make sense to me but that have to be noted that we have to look at right away. And you kind of hinted at it our last show, if people were listening to that one about there's going to be some movement with the offensive tackles and with the wide receivers and let's just get in the offensive tackles quickly here. Okay? Blake Miller goes from 23 to 13 Kaden Proctor 31 to 17 Caleb Lomu 25 to 20, Maxi Andor 20, 38 to 24. If you've been listening again, you know that I don't necessarily agree with the order those offensive tackles are in. And I think there's a debate to be had. I don't hate the movement here, though, and it makes sense because of positional value. And I think this is what I would call a cluster draft. There are a lot of groups of players that have similar grades that you could kind of feel like it could go either way. I think you have to go with positional value, you have to go with what teams are going to be looking for. What's, what's the better. You know, what's the better position, for lack of a better way of saying it. And I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these guys move up late. Now. Do I think it's still early for

[A]

a lot of these guys?

[B]

Yeah, I do. I still have my. I still have the Caden Proctor syndrome. I don't want to go off on that too much because I'm going to tell you right now, that is the first player. When we put the reports to bed, that is the first player I'm going to go back and watch every single snap of because I want to make sure I'm buttoned up there with what I'm saying. I've already written a report, I've already watched a ton of tape on him. But I'm trying to be a bigger guy now and a more evolved human being and listen to other people's opinions and not let them sway me, but do give them the, the weight that they maybe deserve and go back and take a look at a player again. But Kaden Proctor to me, again, is still too high at 17. I get it, but it's still too high at 17 for me.

[A]

I think there's a couple things to take away from what you just said, and I think it's, I think this is, this is a smart conversation. The struggle I have at times when you're putting together a board is this internal tug of war of. You have these conversations with people in the league and you know, when you have some of the, the relationships we've built over 26 years, you know where guys are going. Yeah, ballpark. Not exactly, you know, not exactly the player and the pick number and, but you know, the range. When you get done having several conversations, the conversations I have are, are never who you're going to take. Talk to me about your board. Right, right, right. Let's, let's, let's talk through the picture and see if your picture is similar to my picture. And that can kind of as you talk to multiple people in the league and they have a similar picture and it's not identical, but from a general and it's not even 30, 000ft. It's like 4, 000ft. You ever get on like a Cape Air from, from Hyena or from Boston to like the Vineyard or Nantucket or,

[B]

you know, I'm taking the boat in that situation.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[B]

I'M not getting on that plane.

[A]

It's hard enough getting on a Boeing 777 with you to Atlanta. I can't imagine you on the Coke can in the. In the air.

[B]

Yeah. Zero shot.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Those.

[A]

Those flights are. I mean, they're Coke cans. They're like, you know, Pepsi. I'm a Pepsi guy. I'm getting no more.

[B]

Okay. That might be your worst take of the whole. The whole show.

[A]

Oh, no, I'm Diet Pepsi all through and through. Lemon. Perfect. Diet Pepsi. Anyway.

[B]

That's terrible.

[A]

I'm telling you.

[B]

Too sweet. It's too sweet.

[A]

Great. I think Pepsi's trying to be a sponsor. You might want to clean up your act. All right. But. But here. Here's what I'm getting. And follow me here. Okay. Again. Get. Get your pencils out, you scumbags. Actually, get your pens.

[B]

You know, Is this the thing you're going to do, by the way? You just can refer to listeners as scumbags.

[A]

I'm only talking to a handful now. All of this is the 1% that we know who I'm talking about. Okay, Drift, you know, when you're. You're. You're the. You're the lead car in a race and there's always like one or two cars behind you. I'm sucking up all the air while you're. You're drifting off of me, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Know what I mean? You know?

[B]

Yeah, I got it. I got it.

[A]

All right. So, drifters, get your pens out. Here's how it's viewed by. By the league, okay? There are guys who are just top 10 guys in this class and are probably top 15, top 20 in any class that are going to go. And it has nothing to do with positional runs or anything like that. Follow along. It's Fernando Mendoza, obviously, it's Arvel Reese. We think he's going to go number two if he doesn't go to. He's going to go three in worst case, like four.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Sonny Stiles, Jeremiah Love. I already mentioned their positions in schools. I don't need to do it again. Those four guys, then you've got David Bailey, Ruben Bain, then I would say Caleb Downs. Right. Carnell Tate, Francis Maui Noah, Monsor Delane and Jermad McCoy. They're all going to be top 12 picks, and I just listed 11 of them. Those guys are going to be top 12 picks. If they're not, then they'll. Then some team will be thrilled to grab them or some team will come flying up to get them at pick 13 or 14. Okay, those. Those. Yeah, those. So that's 10. I just listed those 11 guys, right? 11. So I'm giving you the. The top 11 guys in this draft. Okay. That are going to go in the top 12. Worst case, 13, 14. Then these are the conversations I'm having. Okay, here we go. The other wide receivers are really good, but I can get a wide receiver in the second round. I can get. Later in the first round, an Omar Cooper Jr. From Indiana. I can get after Tyson and Lemon go. I can get a Denzel Boston. I can get a KC Concep, late first, early second. I can get Chris Brazil, Zachariah Branch, Antonio Williams, the list goes on. I can get guys into the second, like early third that can come in and play. I've got to get offensive tackle. I've got to get edge. Yeah. So, yeah, that's Dr. That's driving the bus, buddy. And so I think we're going to see those 11 guys go really early because they belong at the top. And it's not about a positional run, but there's going to be two positional runs in the first round where we're talking offensive tackle. I mentioned Maui Noah is a. Is a top 10, top 15 pick in most drafts according to everyone I talked to and based off of our grade. But then you. But then this run's going to happen if Spencer Fano, Blake Miller, Kaden Proctor, Monroe freeling down to Max Iheana. Max Iannotra is one of those guys where if in free agency you could go get a star tackle like you can get maybe a wide receiver or a running back and not even a star like a good starter. Forget star good starter. If you could get one in free agency at a reasonable price or even get one at all, these prices wouldn't be driven up in terms of compensation in the draft. But Ian Achor, who you probably have still developing, came to America at 13 years old, soccer basketball player, East LA Community College. Unbelievable story. Fresno State offensive line coach recruits him. Kenny Dillingham, the head coach at Arizona State, hires the Fresno State coach. He brings Ian outshore with them, all that stuff. You'd like to draft that guy in the early second.

[B]

Not me. I think he's the first round all the way. But I hear your point.

[A]

So maybe. I'm just saying maybe for some people he.

[B]

Right. I think, I think the consensus is. The consensus is what you're saying. I would just. I just, you know, I. I don't want to let that go by without putting my, My Two cents in there and say that I think he's a first rounder all the way.

[A]

Consensus in the league is like 30 to 40. That range.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

But he's going to go. And so I've got him at 24. Am I too high? Maybe. But I've got this cluster of 90s from Akeem Messador 22 down to Peter woods at 28. They're all 90 grades. So within that, that's. That's seven players. Seven players. So I'm going to put him at the top of the cluster. That's a huge clusters. Yeah, 24. And notice at the top of my cluster are four players, three edges, one offensive tackle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you get cluster fucked up.

[B]

I was wondering if it was gonna, it was gonna go that way.

[A]

You know what I mean though?

[B]

Like, you are, you are. I mean, what are you gonna do? You're gonna go with the, the position that, that people value more.

[A]

So I could have put him down to 28 and he's still the same.

[B]

Great.

[A]

You see what I'm getting, right? And the same thing with the edge guys, because if you don't get, if you don't get Reese or Bailey or Bane, then there's going to be some offensive tackles that go, maybe, you know, a cornerback that go, whatever it is, but you're going to come right back to these edge rushers and then you get this run. There's like a, a double bucket of edge rushers, right, That I view it as. After those guys I just mentioned who are what, four of them, right? Reese, Bain, Bailey, three. Then you've got this next bucket and you can break it up into two if you want, but you get this next cluster or bucket of Keldrick, Falk, AEM Medor, TJ Parker, Zion, Young, Cashus Howell, they're all going to go, bud. Yeah. So that's. That hopefully explains where we are and why it's kind of been driven up. And to be honest with you, the edges are probably too low and. And it'll be reflected next week when we come back with our top 150. Okay. All right. So what else jumps out to you? Well, I'm just gonna go put the.

[B]

Again to put a little finer point on the wide receivers because this is. It did really. What jumped out to me was Omar Cooper Jr. Went from 17 to 30. If, if something goes up, something else must go down. Right. So this is the wide receivers. Antonio William went 39 to 55. I actually almost felt bad for you because I know that's Tough for you. I know how much you like those receivers. And the one that I really, that I struggle with and I kind of wanted to talk to you about without yelling at you first is Jeremy Bernard went from 50 to 78.

[A]

And I went back and watched this tape after, so. So I'm glad you brought that up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's. It's fair. Okay. I went back and I've got my notes here. I went back and watched his tape because he was one of the first. Because, I mean, I love. I watched him in the summer. I told you. I. I got like a, like really like an early second round grade, but I could, you know, and it's not like he had a bad season by any stretch. He was the most bad workout. No, he. He wasn't. But I'm watching him. And with. In this, two things are happening with the receivers for me. Carnell Tate, if he was a little bigger, if he was. If he was a 4. 4 guy, I think he's a true one. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love Jordan Tyson. I like his tape. Second best in this class, but you got the injury stuff. And then Makai Lemon, I love his tape, but as you said the other day, not big, not super fast. You know, am I getting a slot or a Z? Is that. Is that a top 15 pick? You can be a great player and be graded out as a late first, but those guys are significantly more dynamic in whatever aspect it is than Jeremy Bernard. Okay. And then I've got this next tier. Denzel Boston, big, physical ex wide receiver who runs better routes than. Than most people say you think he runs it a little better than I do, but we both recognize that's a big guy who's separating and does it with some, like, craft to it. We both Love Omar Cooper Jr. But he's not the biggest cat in the world. He's so like, those are. Those are later first round guys and some years like early second. And so I'm not cooling on this receiver group, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of, okay, I'm getting a damn good Z slot. Z flanker slot with some of these guys. That's a late first. Second. If I'm getting a good one, that's the second early third. And so I think I just changed my perspective on all of it. But with Jeremy specifically, he. He tested like he ran well on a straight line, but he's not like this sudden. I just. I love the detail to his game, the consistency to his game. I think he's a dog he's got great hands. He. He's physical. He's all those things. He's good after the catch, but he's not like, you know, yeah, I think he's. I think he's a really good number three in the league. And quite frankly, he was kind of a Z number Z. He's like a number two, number three at Alabama. Right. He's not a true outside guy. So I, So I had to start putting some perspective on all these guys. As much as I. And Bernard's a. Yeah, I've got a. I've got a thing for him. I just, I, I know he's going to be a good player, and he's going to be a good player. Week one of the NFL in September, we're going to talk about, hey, he had five catches. Look at him.

[B]

You know, he's the six best receiver in this class. In my mind. I mean, I'm taking him over Concepcion. I'm taking him over Brazil. Give me your list.

[A]

Give me. Give me your list. I'll just.

[B]

I'm fine with your top. Your top five is great. I mean, I would probably go Tate, Tyson Lemon, I mean, but both that. I mean, I'm. You have Lemon one spot ahead. Tyson. I'm okay with that. I would put Omar Cooper Jr. Next. I would put Denzel Boston. After that, your top five. We're. We are aligned. Okay.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's after that. Casey Concepion, who has good size or good frame but lean, lot of drop passes, maybe doesn't like to get hit. I don't know. Chris Brazel ii, by the way, if

[A]

I see one more per person on Twitter, verse and I. I made a comment the other day on sometimes I can't help myself, and I gave. I gave some people who were talking about his ball skills and, and his great ball skills. I don't know what are you talking about? Or he can't catch the ball. Not like, just watch. It's not hard. You can get it anywhere. Go watch some tape. And if you can't get it, here's. Here's a couple plays in the time code so you can go wherever you pretend to watch tape. It's. It's the quick slant stuff. It's going over the middle. It's when he's about to get hit. The Florida game, there were two of them in like, in like a couple series. And so that doesn't mean. That doesn't mean he can't improve on that. It doesn't mean he can't no, he tracks the ball really well. He catches the ball really well. He just. He loses focus because an oncoming defender is there and he feels it. And so, yeah, it concerns me. It's. It's probably one of the biggest reasons he's not in my top 32, but he's just outside of it.

[B]

Yeah, I just. I mean, I. I can go through all these guys. Like, Zachariah Branch is a guy that sticks out to me, and I know you don't think he's a gimmick guy, but he's small, man. He's small.

[A]

He is like.

[B]

I mean, I don't want to go through again. We're not gonna. I'm not gonna name 15 names here

[A]

and go, no, I don't need you to.

[B]

I think Jeremy Bernard's the sixth best receiver in this class. So to go from 50 to 78 is one that. I'm sure that we're going to revisit that conversation, and I'm sure at some point we're just gonna have to come to a, you know, an agreement about what we're gonna do there. But I just. I don't. I. I mean, to 78 in this draft. I mean, that seems unthinkable to me that he's the 78th best player in this draft.

[A]

It's gonna be a fun meeting we have next week.

[B]

I know you're looking forward to it. To your credit. Like, listen. To your credit. You listen to me. As. As we've gone along in our careers, you have listened to me a lot more than you used to. I still don't get everything I want, and I'm still a little baby about it.

[A]

But you do.

[B]

You do at least.

[A]

Well, every time I listen and adjust, you. You do recognize I'm not getting what I want then, right?

[B]

Right. Right.

[A]

And it's me not being a baby about it. So there's definitely a. A, you know, a compromise that has to be. Has to be made, and I don't

[B]

want to give ground the next year of, like, oh, he was good to me last year. Maybe I'll be easing on this year. No.

[A]

Hell, no. I want more. More. More. Yes. Good. You should. What else? Anything else? Jump out, trade and stukes.

[B]

The. The slot from Arizona. I. I just can't. I was blown away. You have him just outside of the top 50 right now. I think you moved him up from 58 or 59 to 53. I think that's right. I think at the end of the day, he's going to be a top 50 guy. I just, I mean there's a lot of interesting slot defenders in this class, but like to me, four interceptions. I think he, he ran the fourth fastest time out of the safeties at the combine. And you see that speed on field when he turns, runs with guys, when he, when he has to recover. He's a really instinctive guy.

[A]

It gets hard, man. It gets hard because if you, if that top that. Because everyone does the top 50. I'm just being honest with you. Everyone does the top 50. Right. And so when someone's sitting at 53, it's like who's not in the top 50? But then I, right, I urge or encourage those who, who are looking at it from that. That is like a Mendoza line. Who else are you swapping out? And so like maybe it's Avion Terrell. Avion Terrell is going to drop. Okay. Right outside of that, like Colton Hood. I'm too low on at 37. He's probably going to be in the top 32. He's a first round.

[B]

Really grown on me as a player, man.

[A]

Malachi Lawrence, by the way, very split on, on Malachi Lawrence in the league.

[B]

Is it the frame? Are you hearing a lot about the frame? He's only 250something pounds.

[A]

Honestly, it's the run game stuff. It's like a David Light, David Bailey light conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Maybe those are two guys right there which would get them to 51. If I were to adjust. I, I, there's some things I wanted to go back and like here's like this is the part where I'm watching Tate like constantly, like refining with something in mind I want to see. Now I'm looking through a very specific lens. So I'm going to go into my PFF ultimate and I am going to pull up those plays to get an answer to what I have a question mark next to the player's name. Yeah, but, but Chris Johnson, if anything he's, he's moving up or he's staying locked in at 39. Anthony Hill's a guy who's people. Some people think late first, early second. Some people have got him third.

[B]

So he's, it's weird. Yeah. He's not for everybody.

[A]

C.J. allen, there's more love in the league for him. A lot of people think he's, he's not.

[B]

But he had a bad, he had a bad pro day workout after coming back from an injury. So right fifth round, Caleb, Caleb Banks.

[A]

People are all over the board. But he's, he's A, he's a second with, with first round tape. He's healthy and, and is going. Brandon C. Say right cornerback from South Carolina. He's a late first, early second. You know, he's not there yet. Still developing, but he's, he's too talented. Emmanuel Pregnon, some people think he's at third because he's a guard or whatever. I'm not moving off of pregnant at 44. Lee Hunter didn't work out well, all that stuff, but he's a damn good football player. Chase Basak, we're going through them all

[B]

out of there.

[A]

Eli Stowers, Jacob Rodriguez, they're all locked. Chris Brazil, all locked. Our Mason Thomas, locked. Galde, locked. Linebacker from Cincinnati, Jake Galde. Keon Keante Scott ran a four, three. Three Locked. Yeah. Then you get to trade on, trade on Stu. So there's, there are four or five players in there that, yes, I could, I could tweak down and move Stukes up. And I'm the one. I brought stukes to you, bruh.

[B]

You did. You did, yeah.

[A]

100.

[B]

You did.

[A]

So that will be a conversation we have.

[B]

I just wanted to highlight the player more than anything else.

[A]

I'll tell you another player that I, that I talked to myself because I've listened to you. D' Angelo Pons is going to be in our final top 50. Ain't nothing you can do about it.

[B]

Mitch, I'm okay with it.

[A]

It's.

[B]

That's fine. That's fine. I love the player. I, I'm not gonna. You, I'm. I am very clear about what I think of d'. Angelo.

[A]

So we'll move. We'll wind up moving stooks and, and pawns up and, and a couple of those names that we mentioned from the, from the Terrell's to The Malachi Lawrence, C.J. to the Anthony Hills. Yeah, they, they could, they could face a little dip. But I'm talking 50 to 60 range.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

70 to 80.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Quaker bring out the good

[A]

Jamad McCoy talking to people in the league. Hadn't seen him. We it's well documented ACL injury January of 2025 right after, you know, season didn't work out. Here's what I'm hearing from the league. Remember we had questions like when Was the. When was the clearance to play?

[B]

What.

[A]

Here's what I was told and I actually don't disagree with some of it. Not all of it. Cleared to practice and play clear to practice and then if practice went well to play later in the season, not before, not first four weeks like was early reported. I think that was wishful thinking. Cleared to practice late in the season. Did practice is what I'm told. But elected not to play. And quite honestly business decision. Where Tennessee was in its season. I can't say I'd advise him differently. Now he's got an agent that you have to deal with because he represents a lot of the top guys. But an aggressive agent with some of these decisions. And so when you have. He's the modern day Rosenhaus. Rosenhaus still does it at a very high level. But he's, he's, he's gotten, he's aged and with age comes wisdom and, and just like I'm not as. I don't fly off the handle the like I used to. I think Rosenhaus has matured in that level and Drew and I are good. If he was sitting here, I'd laugh with him about it. So an agent is kind of driving. This is, this is the process. This is what I think is best for you. And I don't disagree with that part of the decision. Then the senior boy is well cleared to play. Ops out. The league is telling him and it's. The sources you have as an agent in the league are like, yeah man, he's. If he's not CB1, he's CB2 and he's. He's going top 15. Could be a top 10 pick if he runs well. So instead of racing back, instead of like training and pushing, they gradually trained him. Get ready for your pro day now. It's a lot of eggs in a basket. He goes and runs a 449-451-and doesn't look great in the pro day. Has a bad day. It's like who. And remember 10 spots going from pick 11 or 12 Dolphins Cowboys to pick 21. 22 is about a $10 million difference in your rookie contract. That was a $10 million gamble what he did. But then he goes out and runs.

[B]

What.

[A]

What did he run? 4, 3, 2.

[B]

Yeah, something like that. I mean depending on who you asked. It was low four threes, but yeah,

[A]

so like got it. And work looked good. Working out all of it. His jumps were, were above average. Weren't great for this class. But this class was stupid with all of its workout results. So my point is now it's like, oh, he's back and we're going off of 20, 23, 2024 tape. Some people think he's the best corner in this draft. Cool. He's an interesting one. And I just mentioned of the 11 guys that I think are going to go in the top 12, 12 picks, he's one of them.

[B]

He is the number two corner on my board. I think Delane's like head and shoulders above him. I understand what you're saying on paper and it's great. Like, I don't understand the Tennessee stuff. I mean, they are, they are five and one in the middle of October. Then they, they get blown out at Alabama. So another five and two.

[A]

Yeah, I think he got clear. November is my, is my information kind

[B]

of matters when man, like November 1st they lose to, to Oklahoma by, by six points. I mean, was he able to play in that game? Like, and I'm not saying, like, I don't want to be.

[A]

I was told season, so it could have been like November 15th, you know,

[B]

but hear me out. Like, I get it from a business, if you're looking at, from your, the agent and the business and the league and all that stuff, but we sit down with these decision makers and, and all they talk about is, I want dogs. I want guys who love the game. I want guys who aren't like, you got to hold them back from going out to play.

[A]

Is Derek Stingley a dog?

[B]

No, he's not. Well, he wasn't. I shouldn't say that. He. I think he is now. I don't think he was coming out. I hear you. I hear you. Can you take advantage of all that stuff? And I still think he's a dog

[A]

who made a business decision.

[B]

He didn't. I mean, he didn't play that well when he was. I mean, like, he just didn't. I mean, so I think there's a whole other conversation where Stingley actually put out bad tape. I mean, it wasn't like he just didn't play. So there's a different thing here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So with McCoy specifically, that would stick in my mind a little bit. And he's still the second best corner of my board. I, I'm, I'm with you. I think he's a first rounder all day, but I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, that doesn't matter because the league was telling me he's going to be a first rounder. And this was a business decision for the agent. And Tennessee was Whatever. Like, not really. I mean, Tennessee was in the, in the mix until November. Like, not really. So when was he able to go play? Like, I, I want to, I would want to know that. I would want to know that. If I'm a gm, I think it matters now how much that's up to you. And am I an old man yelling at this guy? Maybe, maybe I'm okay with that. I can say that. But that being said, like, don't tell me that. It's just, you know, because he's, you know, protecting against this, protecting against that. It matters if you don't want to go out and play. Like, that's a deal. That's.

[A]

We all, we all want the same thing. What I'm telling you is I'm an NFL team and I'm the Miami Dolphins or I'm the Dallas Cowboys.

[B]

I hear you.

[A]

I need a corner. I've put money if I'm the Cowboys into, into my front seven. I'm, I'm throwing up watching my defense a year ago and I'm looking at this corner who's not Patrick Certain, who's not Derek Stingley. Yeah, he is like behind him. Talent wise, that's what Jermod McCoy is. He is a man to man press corner with sweet feet. Explosive speed. He just confirmed that. Explosive speed. Running in the four threes at his pro day. He's physical. What's his big weakness? Occasionally he'll get over aggressive. Occasionally balls in the air. But like he, he'll take it away. He does it all. He's a man to man cover corner. That just confirmed four threes. And I need a corner. I hear you.

[B]

I'm not arguing traits here. We're not arguing traits. That's not what we're doing. But again, we sit down with these decision makers and they talk to us about what's the one thing about the. The nil has helped them with it. Shows them how players handle money. Well, I know now how McCoy and his team handle. Listen, I know now. Let me finish.

[A]

He's not a bad guy. He's not. Let me finish. Some dog in the wrong.

[B]

I didn't say any of that.

[A]

A good dude who's going to come and work.

[B]

Let me finish. What I know now from McCoy and his team is how he handles contract negotiations. And if we're going into year four of a contract and we haven't decided to exercise the fifth year option and he gets a little banged up and his agent says, hey, you could go here.

[A]

Best problem I can have that I want him back so bad that I'm worried about four years from now in a contract for the second time.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

That's the best problem I can have.

[B]

It's not a great problem to have, dude.

[A]

It's a great problem to have because I. Unless you're the Cowboys. I've got an owner breathing down my back. I got a win in the next year or two. I need a guy who's come in and be an impact player and take away that portion of the field. McCoy can do that. Delane. Delane doesn't have his. Like. Delane's a damn good football player. He's a.

[B]

Is twice the corner. The McCoy is in my mind.

[A]

Oh, no, I'm not.

[B]

I'm not even hesitating.

[A]

What makes Delaney special is when the ball is in the air. It's the. It's the Belichick Saban principle of ball in the air. He is like. He's like a pilot landing it in the Hudson River. He's like Sully, man. That's what. Twain is twice as aggressive.

[B]

I don't think it's close.

[A]

I'm looking. I don't think Sully landing my plane in the Hudson. And that's what Delane is. But you can't watch both tapes consecutively and say, yes, I can. Delane is a better stickier instinct. Yes, he's got the straight line speed.

[B]

He.

[A]

He's damn good. But I'm telling you, the best pure man to man. Cover skill, wise traits, oily hips, all those things. It's McCoy.

[B]

Give me Delaney. I think he's the better player, like by far. You could say. Like, if you want to say in certain areas that McCoy is. Is better in certain areas, sure. If he's better in man. Not a lot.

[A]

Not a lot. 1. It's now. It's now because of that pro day and not just because of the time, because we finally get to see him compete. He looks great. He's back to that guy. We're good. It's now 1A and. Listen to me, listen to me. Listen to. It's not just a pro day when you don't play for an entire year. It's. Where is this guy? Yeah, listen to me. It is 1A and 1B at cornerback right now. And so that's different from. It's Delane, no question.

[B]

Number one.

[A]

He's a top 10 pick. Worst case goes. Goes. Goes 11 or 12 to the mids voice and where McCoy is. And then McCoy is going to be somewhere after that. It's now 1A and 1B in the league. And depending on kind of what you're looking for. I'm just telling you that's fine.

[B]

I understand. And I, I don't argue with your information.

[A]

And it's a huge. I don't argue with the trades because that whole rant I just went on of there's 11 guys that should go in the top 12 picks. It used to be 10. I'm adding an 11th here. That's a massive difference. That's 8% or whatever it is of the top 12 is now just kind of the. The. The landscape has changed a little.

[B]

That's not what I'm talking about, though. That's not what I'm arguing. I just. That's fine. That's good. And I get that.

[A]

I get you're the GM. You're taking Delane over McCoy. That's fine. I'm talking about people who are tuning in on Netflix, Spotify, Apple, wherever else they get their podcasts. We appreciate you doing that.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

That want to understand the landscape of this draft, and I'm laying it out to you based off of the information that we have from watching our tape and then confirming or checks and balances with people in the NFL. Okay. Jeez.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I had five other players I wanted to get to.

[B]

I just filibustered. I. I just pushed it to the end so you couldn't do it.

[A]

Dominique Orange is a true second rounder. He's one of those guys. Interior defensive lineman from Iowa State. We'll talk about it another time. Don't be surprised if it's become one of our franchises this year. The thing, one of the things we love, especially as we get close to the draft. I told you, Greg Shapiro pointed it out to me at ESPN producer, one of the great producers in this game. He's like, I. I've been jotting down notes and I'm telling you when anytime you say, and I don't think you know, you say it. Don't be surprised if it's something that I know I need to jot down because you're hearing it, you're not totally sold on it, but it's something that is going on or something you've seen on tape or something that's worth a nugget and you just kind of throw it in there and it always piques interest. And so it got us thinking. Like this segment of don't be surprised if that's basically what it is, something you're hearing or seeing that you want our audience to understand is. Is a thing. It may not be exactly what we. What we're laying out, but it's something that's going on. So if I said to you, mensch, don't be surprised if what is your. What's the first thing that comes to your mind?

[B]

Don't be surprised if Florida corner Devin Moore turns into one of the steals in this draft and you have him exactly where have him. Okay. And I want to. And I want to tell you why.

[A]

Where is that?

[B]

97. Okay. He's a top. I think you snuck him into the top hundred. You recognize. You're recognizing the game. You recognize the talent. Here's why he's that low. He has a history of shoulder problems. He has a history of injuries. He's a ton of games. Okay.

[A]

Y.

[B]

You go to the. You go to this year, you're like, oh, he played 11 games. He, like, looks like he finally had

[A]

a good, healthy year.

[B]

And you find. You come to find out he had groin surgery after the season, which is very important. I'll go over in a minute. I want to go to the tape I threw on this kid's tape, and I was blown away for his size. I think he's 6 foot 3 at how well he moves. He's 6 foot 3 with 31 and 5, 8 inch arms. I think they're even longer because the combine numbers are brutal right now. But the way this kid moves at that height, how fluid he is, how quick his feet are, blew me away. And here's the real. The real beef in my argument, for lack of better way of saying it, his speed. He ran a 4, 5. He ran a 4, 5 at the combine. You're like, wait, this guy's supposed to be a burner. Like, people will talk about this guy as he's a height, weight, speed guy. What's the deal? He goes to his pro day and he runs a 4, 5, 9. We're going backwards. What's going on? Well, come to find out that he's still recovering from the groin surgery and just said, I'm going to run no matter what. So I'm like, okay, how fast is he? And it was great because he did an interview after the pro day. So I'm watching this interview within the pro day. I'm wondering what's going on. And one of the beat reporters, and I wish I knew who it was. I didn't hear the name, said to him, hey, man, like this. This time doesn't seem real reflective. Like, we've watched you here. You can Move. What do you usually run? And he was like, I, you know, I run in the four threes.

[A]

Usually.

[B]

I'm like, okay, who says that? Like, does it really. Is it really backed up by what we see? Throw on the tape. Tennessee turns and runs with Chris Brazil. The second. Last time I checked, he ran a 4, 37 at the combine, and he is stride for stride with that dude. He is moving on tape.

[A]

So here's the deal.

[B]

Can he stay healthy? Not only did he have all those injuries, we've missed games, now he has this groin surgery. Like, it's one thing after another, dude. So if he can stay healthy, the skill set is there for him to be a. I think a number one corner. I think that's how talented he is. So don't be surprised if this guy turns into a steel and goes, you know, somewhere on day two. And later on you're like, how in the world did that guy stay on the board?

[A]

Yeah, like, he started. He. I remember watching him as a freshman in 2022 and being like, oh, he's next, you know? Yeah, he's 63, almost £200. And by the way, like, he's the man in Gainesville.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Worker. Yeah, worker. I like, you know, I'm fortunate that I worked on the. On the. In the South a lot, like Southeast and a lot of these programs and spent a lot of time there. Like, I did a commercial for UPS in Gainesville. Urban was there. Like, I've got. I've developed relationships and he's.

[B]

He.

[A]

He's him in terms of like, leader preparation. Guys follow what he's doing in the, in the weight room. Like, like he's doing all those things, which to me, if we've got an injury player and a player he hasn't regressed, but a player that didn't quite get to where he.

[B]

He.

[A]

We thought he might get after that 2022 season. Is he. Is he kind of like, is he lazy? What's he into? You know, that. That more often than not is. There's. It's a reflection of the off the field stuff, not him. So, yeah, I like that. And. And good player, man. If you hit on him in round three, three. Yeah, you got a big physical corner who can actually run, who's a. Who's going to be like, he's a force multiplier in the locker room on the defensive side, you know, so that. I like that. Here's mine. And it may not come as shocking news, but I want you to really think about the landscape of the top five picks and where you've seen some of the. These players mocked. I think both Ohio State players. Two of the three that we're talking about in the top 10, two of the four that we're talking about in the top 10. Alongside Arvell Reese, who right now I think is, you know, high, high percentage. He's the number two pick for the Jets, I think after Reese and Mendoza. 1. Based off of my conversations with people in the league, don't be surprised if Sonny Styles and Carnell Tate both go in the top five. Wow. It's different when you sit back and listen to people in the league. You can hear in the inflection, the tone, the. There's no yeah, buts.

[B]

Now.

[A]

Where do they like talking about Styles? Like, everyone's like. Like, have you, like, look at them in person. Like, I want you to think about when you just stand next to Tom Brady or Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. Like, he's that tall and this long. Like. A kick might be able to touch one wall to the other in my. In my studio, office, film room here. And he was a safety in 2022. When you go back and watch that tape. And then. Oh, sorry, 2023, right? In 2024.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

Linebacker. He moves the linebacker. And you loved him. And then I kind of got involved. Like, I love him, too. And we're watching him was like, man, I wish the tackling was better. Seems a quarter count off on the. On the linebacker. And sometimes we forget with these players, right? Sometimes we forget. This is the first time he's ever done this. He's an absolute freak athlete. Okay. And so. So, yeah, he's going to be a quarter count late and. And he's coming in from different angles, and he's being asked to read and react. And it's different from kind of playing off and in space as a safety. You know, as we talked, we talked. One of the best conversations we ever had with someone in the league, Teddy Brusky, talking about, like, first key ball location. Like, in this order, first key ball location. Take a Polaroid. It was the best con. Like, after watching tape, sitting next to him in this little room in Bristol, you, me, Kevin Weidle, and. And.

[B]

And.

[A]

And Teddy Bruski. Teddy's like, let's watch some tape. We're watching the Penn State linebackers.

[B]

Sean Lee.

[A]

Sean Lee. And the other guy who was more talented but wasn't as instinctive as Sean Lee. And I could watch his foot tap. It was like Nick Saban When I was in his office, circa LSU office, circa, I don't know, 2001, 2002, when we knew he was taking the Miami job. And I'm sitting there with Mike Godfrey and Mike Godfrey's asking questions, and his foot was tapping slowly in the beginning. And as the questions went, the foot started tapping more. And by the time we were done with the conversation about, are you taking the Miami job? Are you going to be the LSU coach, his foot was going like watching Brusky watch Sean Lee. It was like that. He's watching and then all of a sudden his foot's tapping like he sees something. Something's, you know. Anyway, I'm saying this because the linebacker position is a whole different animal. And if you've played it, you understand it's, it's, it's read for. And this happens. And as I say it, it happens like 10 times faster. It's read first, read, what's your key? Then your eyes go straight to ball location. Then you got a blocker coming out on you, and you got to take a Polaroid before you engage. And that Polaroid tells you he. I saw a flash before, because when you, if you run your head into the wall right now, I promise you, there's a split second where everything goes black. And so when you're taking on a 300 pound blocker or 320, everything goes like that. So you have to take a Polaroid right. Right before you take it. And is that back coming this way or this way and that way? That tells me when I engage, I get a shed one way or shed the other. So he's walking us through that process that happens in a quarter account. Quarter account. And you wonder why Sonny Styles is a quarter count late. And then he gets with Patricia in the off season and in that scheme, and now they're asking him to do more stuff, but he just picks it up because he's super smart. And I told you, there's an executive in the league who's like, I promise you this guy's going to be a CEO. He's going to run a company. He's that, like, he's that awesome to talk about, talk to. And when you talk to him, you're like, this guy's brilliant. But then you also think about, this guy's violent, and this guy's going to, he's gonna, he's gonna end your day. And so all these things. And now I'm talking to people in the league and it's like, yeah, he's an off Ball, linebacker. But he's so different than, you know. And I'm looking at it's not going to be two to the jets, but maybe it's the Cardinals with a surprise pick or a team moving up. A team love them that much. Maybe it's in worst case, he's going maybe to the Giants. According to people I talk to in the league. I'm not saying it's definitive, but don't be surprised if. And then there's Carnell Tate in that conversation. You see the scouting report there for Styles. I'm sure we'll pull up Carnell Tate. Theringer.com McShay 100 evaluations in there right now. Top one. First top 150 rankings of the year. We'll be back next week with 150 evaluations and update the whole board. Carnell Tate, it's, it's, it's kind of the same. It's like he was this and then he grew into this. And then this year he had zero drops. His contestants went from the 50s to the 80s percentile, not percent percentage. It's not a 5050 ball. It's like an 8614 ball for him. How long did it take me to do that?

[B]

I thought you froze. You backed yourself into a corner with 86. You couldn't do it or did 90 10.

[A]

But now he's not 210. He's not 44 1. But he's the only one where it's like, yeah, I can't get that. I can, I can get a version of it's not as good as Makai Lemon or Jordan Tyson in round two. If I've got to get my tackle or my edge. Tate's When I have conversations with people in the league, it's different now. Everyone's mocking him. The first place you see him come off the board is Cleveland. When you look at all these mock drafts and I encourage you not to at 6, but then you see it's a little bit. But not usually it's Sonny Styles or Jeremiah Love at seven. And then you get to like eight with, with, with the Saints and that. You see him kind of in that 6 to 8 range. Right? I don't know that he's getting there. And I look at, I look at like the jets aren't totally out of like, not I, I don't think so. But 5% more so. Like, I don't think it's Arizona. But then I look at it. Could it be Tennessee? It could be.

[B]

It could be Tennessee.

[A]

Could it be the Giants at 5.

[B]

If you know, like again, it could be.

[A]

Yeah, it could be. So I'm just saying.

[B]

I'm not sure I would say it's more probable than not, but it could be.

[A]

Just keep an eye on that because when I have conversations, it's very clear on certain guys. Like love them, love them, love them. But. Or yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see him. Yeah. Five to 10, you know, six to 10 or maybe in that like eight to 12. You know, those two guys, the conversations are different. They're different. That was a lot to get to.

[B]

Do we know the last time? Do we know three. The last time three Ohio, three players in the same college went in the. In the first five picks. I got to figure that out. I'm gonna find that out because that's something else. I can't remember that happening.

[A]

We're back on Wednesday and then again on Friday. We are, we're low. We're actually having a meeting tomorrow because we have so many shows that we're trying to squeeze into like 10, remain 10, 12 remaining shows. We're going to try to iron it all out. But we will be back on Wednesday. I can promise you this next week we have a mock 4.0. I have promised you that I'm going to urge strongly that men gets his first mock draft in his 20 plus years of doing this. Hopefully we'll be able to unveil that next Monday. It's looking like next Monday is going to be the top 150 with 150 evaluations updated like feel good about it, almost final. Then the final will be on the Tuesday or Wednesday of the draft. The Tuesday of the draft. I believe the final mock draft will be Wednesday of the draft and then we might have a Mach 5.1 on the day of the draft because there's always late information coming in. But Mach 4.0 will be next week. So we've got a full top 150 next week and a Mach 4.0 next week. And we've got a show on Wednesday and we get a show on Friday. We got a lot of team needs to get. We get a lot of stuff to cover. Oh and the all satellite team. So stick with us. We got. We got a lot coming up. And Men, even though you're an absolute pain in the ass, I love you and five stars as always.

[B]

I love you too. Thanks, man.

[A]

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