Daniel Jeremiah (3:15)

I mean, let's not dance around it. I think the Reuben Bain news is, you know, it's on everyone's mind if you're, if you're following the draft, what the fallout's going to be, the timing of it. I saw your ex post. I think it's important to point out this is not new news. I hate these headlines, man. This is not new news for teams. I hate the headlines of no context of, you know, it's factual. The, the post is factual about what happened, but it gives you no context of how it happened. I will tell you that. I, I, you know, I don't, I want to be careful here. I just think it's, it's, it's tough news all around. You obviously feel terrible for the family of the student that lost his life, her life. Sorry. I want to get your feel about, you know, what's the fallout here.

Todd McShay (4:01)

So we, we can't assume that everyone knows the situation. Miami defensive end Ruben Bane, who phenomenal football player projected to be a top 15 pick, could be top 10 pick, right? The big talk about Reuben Bane has been the short arms for a past rusher. We have in two decades an edge rusher go in the first round with what is it, shorter than 31 inch arms. What was his arm like exactly?

Daniel Jeremiah (4:26)

It was under 31 inch.

Todd McShay (4:27)

Yeah, yeah, under 31 inches. And so that's kind of been the, the story surrounding Reuben Bane publicly, privately. It came to my attention in January that there was a car crash on I95 in Miami that resulted in Reuben Bain smashed into another car and then proceeded to crash into a barrier. And it was back in 2024 is my understanding. And the passenger that was hit was struck by Reuben Bain's vehicle was 22 year old. Destiny Betts is her name. I don't want any of this to be lost because all the focus now is on how does this affect Reuben Bane's draft stock. Destiny bets was by all accounts a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful human being and lost her life and her family has dealt with it, dealt with the tragedy. She, my understanding is went into a coma, didn't die instantly but never really recovered and essentially it led to her, to her, her passing. I was made aware of this right around Senior Bowl. Okay. And that teams had had this information for a long time. I can't tell you specifically. I've, I've even talked to two different organizations yesterday after the news came out. They were quite frankly very surprised that they, they didn't realize it hadn't come out. And that's just two organizations, you know, because it, it has, it has been vetted. The situation was, they were aware of it for a long time. And people will understandably say, well, why is it there's all these insiders or people who were, you know, cover the draft, knew about this situation, didn't report it. And some people could understandably, not justifiably, but understandably say, well, you were so quick to attack Jaylen Carter with his situation. Right. But, but let's, let's deal in facts today. And I'm not going to mention the person who, who put this out 11 days before the draft because I'm, I'm not. The reason I said in the open is. I think it's kind of predictably disgusting. The timing of it is this, this gets a lot of clicks, man. It gets you national headlines when your name is attached to this article. And I know a lot of very well respected people who had this information well before I did that could have released this. The Jalen Carter situation, if people want to remember back and actually deal with the facts of it, is I, I reported on, on ESPN that he may fall in the draft. He was the best player in the, in that draft. And why is it that you've got him mocked, going somewhere between like 7 and 10? Todd, if he's, if you're saying he's the best player in the draft. And I said there's some character stuff. And I told you I had two, two or three full pages of stuff prior to the incident coming out. I was not aware of the car crash. And that's the parallel that's being drawn here. The car crash that led to death. Fatality. Right. For Jalen Carter, all my information was practice stuff, fighting with, with coaches, not showing up football character, personal character. All the things that came with Jalen Carter that I think we've seen throughout his career is a juggling act of my gosh, he is so freaking talented and my gosh, he's a handful. And then that incident happened at the combine where he was arrested and he left the combine and returned to the combine and so forth. And that was not, that was not the story that I was, I was telling. I was, it's my job to let People know why isn't the first the best player in the draft going to be one of the top two or three picks? Right. So that's where the parallel it. They take two different routes. Okay, here's what NFL teams are unpacking with this. It is not the family of. Of Destiny Bets has has mourned her loss and continues to and has. Has come to as they put out in a, in a press release. They don't want this attention. This is, this is ripping open another scab. So it's another reason why it's disgusting to right. To put, put that out there and put your name on it so that you can, you can get a gazillion clicks. Right. Teams have vetted it. They understand the situation. Reuben Bain by all accounts is a really good human being, a leader. He's been molded that that locker room at Miami. He was the glue guy. Okay. And so, so you're trying to figure out is this something that now there's reports of another, you know, reckless driving incident in 2025. So there, there are things to unpack when it comes to Ruben Bane and, and talking to several teams about this over the course of like subject February, March, April. So three months now it's more. Is there anything else to come down the pipe? And there's concern. Who is it Edgar and Cooper, the linebacker who wound up going the second round. Texas A and M, I think Green Bay Packers. Is that right?

Daniel Jeremiah (9:43)

Green Bay.

Todd McShay (9:44)

Yep. After drafted and getting obviously a lot of money. There were lawsuits that then came out. There was already a civil suit here. Doesn't mean there couldn't be. There couldn't be more does not appear according to NFL teams that this family is driven by that. And so there's. For teams it's. Will this become a major distraction? We understand the family has come to peace with it and it's been kind of vetted and I don't want to say this closure on it, but teams have known about it now I've been told a few teams may. Here's. Here's the. And this is going to sound insensitive from NFL team standpoint, but if the family is where the family is with this of the young lady Destiny Betts that NFL teams have to kind of weigh that information. There are some teams that don't necessarily aren't thrilled about what the PR is going to be and there are some teams that maybe say we can lean on the short arm length if we pass at a spot where people are, well, you needed an edge rusher and you passed on Bain. Right. And we saw the two best pass rushers in the draft last year were James Pierce from Tennessee and Mike Green from Marshall. Both had off the field character stuff. And Pierce, we've seen it revisited very quickly after. Arguably he was the best edge rushing rookie of this past year in the NFL, but they didn't. But one went late in the first with Atlanta trading back up. The other fell to the second round for the Baltimore Ravens. And it, and, and for Pierce especially, it was real for both of them. It was concern is this something that could resurface these character issues? But it was also part of it, let's be honest. Pr, you don't, you don't want to roll out your first round pick and say here it is, and then have to deal with all of the questions regarding the off the field incident. Right. So that's where we are with Bain. I do not suspect in talking to NFL teams that this is going to lead to some Jeremy Tunsil. And that's the other parallel people are drawing. The Tunsil thing surprised teams that was late. That was like, that was day of, that was hours for the draft. And there were teams we've talked to, you know, since then that were like, we didn't, we didn't know this was coming. And some teams had some clues and all that. And that was a scorned agent in college. And. But there's not a parallel with the Tunsil thing. This is 11 days before the draft, but much more importantly this, every NFL team has known about this for a long, long time. So that's, that's the information I have to share. Can I really quickly say that I

Daniel Jeremiah (12:24)

think it's easy for people my age to forget what it's like to be 18, 19, 20, 21, whatever it is, to be that age and that you're making bad decisions all the time. And I'm not saying that it's okay. I'm definitely not saying it's okay. But try to keep in perspective what's going on here and that it's not a fully developed human being. And then when you're at that age, you, you make bad decisions and it's. What's the saying there but for the grace of God go I. Whatever it is, you know, like that's, that's the kind of thing, like you just. It's a terrible situation. It's terrible for the family. But I, it's important that perspective, you know, people keep perspective here.

Todd McShay (13:04)

Yeah. And so, and it's, it's the biggest storyline coming off of Sunday into Monday in the NFL draft. But it's, it's not a storyline of breaking news for NFL teams. So if we're focusing just on the draft portion of it, Reuben Bain is going to be drafted where he's going to be drafted. Now I mentioned I, I had several conversations, spent five hours approximately on the phone this weekend. There are, there are some teams that legitimately and I've been telling you this since November, man, there are. And I would say it's in one, one GM was do you think it's 50, 50 like Macedor versus Bain, you know, in teams that you've talked to? I said no, I think it's probably more like 75, 25, 70, 30. But there are teams multiple that and it can, it comes down to we've got Ruben Bain with the short arms, but my gosh, he's a damn good football player. You got Messidor with the 25 years old and the durability stuff. But quite frankly it's very mediocre risk is what I'm told with Macedor. So it's more about the age and so and what do you want? One's a better pass rusher, one's a more complete football player. Macedor is the better pass rusher. Bain's a more complete football player. So it comes down to what is that your, your team's seeking. So the argument or the debate for NFL teams is truly Macedor versus Bain. But it's, it's long like since this information has been out there so long it's been vetted, teams that might be concerned about the PR issue. Yeah, maybe they won't draft him. But I, my intel is saying that this is not, it's going to be much more about Bain and what I just said, the pass rushing element with the shorter arms. If he doesn't go let's say 8 to the saints or 9 to the chiefs or 10 to the 10 to the to the Bengals, it'll be about the football stuff versus, versus that situation. So there we are.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:18)

All right.

Todd McShay (15:19)

I mentioned.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:19)

Okay.

Todd McShay (15:20)

Unless you can follow up.

Daniel Jeremiah (15:23)

It's no, it's just, it's, it's time to make the transition, I think and I'm kind of glad to get off the topic, to be honest with you.

Todd McShay (15:29)

So the top 200 is out. Theringer.com McShay please go check it out. We're proud and thrilled to, you know, to share. All of our top 200 rankings is out. Top 150 full evaluations are on the site now. So like you, we got you covered well into the, into the fifth round and evaluation and basically almost the entire draft class with 256 or 257 players drafted. We've got the top 200 rankings out next week. We'll be back. We talked about it Sunday. Sunday night has become our annual buzz show. Every like a bunch of calls already lined up. Three GMs already lined up for Saturday. Follow up calls from this weekend already lined up. We get on a plane Sunday morning, we land in la. We go to our beautiful new studios of Spotify and we, we knock out our first show of the long, you know, week, week plus that we are in LA. Then on Tuesday I believe is our top 300. That's our final board. Wednesday we've got our mock 5.0. Thursday there's going to be more information. Might be a mock 5.1. Stay tuned. Right. But today we're thrilled to drop our top 200. And even in conversations yesterday, men, it's like there's, there might be some tweaking, like there's some, let's give this background. NFL teams, like some teams I talked to got done with one side of the ball with the medical stuff and I'm getting more information on some of the character stuff. And then next week I have a conversation, they get the other side of the ball with medical stuff and some teams are kind of wrapping that up anyway already or maybe wrapping it up today or tomorrow. Okay. That's what's actually going on with NFL teams. So when there's movement now, it's not like mention I are going back and watching three more tapes or something crazy like it's, it's going to be based off of that kind of stuff. So I'm curious as you look through this board, what jumps out at you that is just intriguing as you rip through it. I really want to get your feel,

Daniel Jeremiah (17:25)

I want to get your take on this player because one of the topics for us all year I think was who was going to be, you know, who were the top tight ends in this group. And I see Justin Jolly from North Carolina State who I thought really flashed at the Senior bowl ends up as tight end number three on your board or kind of want to get your, your kind of take on the player.

Todd McShay (17:45)

The tight ends are interesting. Kenyan Sadiq could go anywhere from nine to let's say 17. And I think 14 at Baltimore is real. That could be.

Daniel Jeremiah (17:57)

Is Kansas City in the mix OR no, I.

Todd McShay (18:00)

9 is Kansas City.

Daniel Jeremiah (18:01)

Oh, you said Kansas City. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Todd McShay (18:03)

Yeah, they said Baltimore, then it, then it's Eli stowers in the second round. Then we get 28 players invited to the combine. I think it could be very similar to what we had last year with the running backs. 26 players, awesome running back class. But only six went in the first three, three rounds and 20 went in the. On day, day three. Talking to NFL teams, there's a belief because there's so many offensive tackles, edge rushers, wide receivers, even off ball linebackers, when we get into day two, cornerbacks, nickel guys, that there could be this massive run on tight ends in day three. Now that don't get it twisted. When the run starts, it may, it may start at pick 85, you know, like halfway, let's say halfway or just a little bit later in round three. And so at that point, a Justin Jolly, a Max Claire or Marlon Klein, Michael Trigg, who's the most talented player in the draft. But a lot to unpack with his is, you know, what are you getting? Maturity, involvement, football character stuff. It's going to start around, let's say pick 85, 90. Or it could start around pick one on one, which is the first pick of day three. So sitting here and predicting like we're going to definitively have five tight ends in the, in the first three rounds. NFL teams don't know. It's a game of hold, hold. And then once one goes, we could have 12, 14, 18 tight ends drafted on day three. Like it could be a historic run. Justin Jolly, though, I mean, you like them first. I got to his tape after you. He's, he, Fannin is a, is a decent comp in terms of like, ooh, I like that, you know.

Daniel Jeremiah (20:05)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (20:07)

And look what Fannin did as a rookie. Where'd he get drafted? Third. Was it or was the second?

Daniel Jeremiah (20:12)

I want to say third. I can check for you though with

Todd McShay (20:14)

the, with the Browns. So he's just a good pass catcher man, as you well know, his ability to adjust to the ball, the separation skills. How many guys are big playability guys. As you look at him now, I don't think he ran, if I remember correctly, dealing with a little bit of, you know, some Knicks, but he had over like 1100 receiving yards, 11 touchdowns the final two seasons at NC State. Quarterbacks really talented, but not, not the most pure pastor. And so you wonder if he was in a system where they had like more efficiency, that position. But he's under 6 foot 4, he's 241lb average arm length but he's got those big hands, catches the ball really well, separates really well, big playability, competes like a son of a gun too. Not the greatest blocker but he's going to give you effort. So it's, it's a lot of sorting out and it also like what are you looking for? Tight end. Some teams want a Sam Roush who can block or a Max Claire who can block but has upside as a pass catcher. Some guys want a Will Kacmark who's just going to come in and be like an additional offensive tackle for you.

Daniel Jeremiah (21:27)

Just a glass eater. Yeah.

Todd McShay (21:29)

Oh my gosh. Eli Raridon's got upside from, from Notre Dame. There's just a lot of good tight ends but I think we're going to see that run get pushed off because you know you can get one and if you don't, if you don't get the best blocking tight end you get the second best and he's really good. You know, if you don't get the, the best like receiving tight end then you get the second or third best and there's a lot of those, those guys and there's some upside guys. So that's where I think that run on tight ends is going to go.

Daniel Jeremiah (21:57)

Nice. Everyone who's watched the show from the beginning knows that I am, I was absolutely in love with some South Carolina safety Nicki and worry coming out and he obviously had a good year and the Mike McDonald knew exactly what to do with that kid. Had a pretty good year for them. They go on to win a Super Bowl. I am not saying this is NICK E But V.J. payne, the safety from TCU is, you know we've got him in the third round of third round grade right now. I am intrigued because I feel like this is the closest thing in this class that we have to a Nicki Min War. He's not as big, he's 206 pounds but he's also six three and a quarter inch. He's 33 and three quarter inch arms and he ran a four four. Again not quite Nick Eamon worry but

Todd McShay (22:42)

if you're one of these teams or

Daniel Jeremiah (22:44)

and it's a copycat league and you're thinking I kind of want to do what they did with Eamon Worry in Seattle. I'm fascinated by this player. I kind of want to wanted to see what you thought.

Todd McShay (22:55)

I actually had. I talked to a high ranking executive last night about pain and, and it was, it was interesting about Payne and a couple other guys that I Don't want to say that similar, but

Sponsor/Ad Voice (23:09)

going

Todd McShay (23:09)

to be a great player if he's in the right scheme. Right. And so a team's not going to draft him to the wrong scheme. But he's not a guy that you want man to man in some cover situations. Even though he looked good in certain, you know, like this. Was it the Senior bowl or. He's a guy who is. Is going to bring a lot of versatility and can drop the hammer and has speed and has some pop and all those sorts of things. This safety class is really good and I feel like we haven't talked a lot about it because it feels like there's almost closure in it a little bit. Like we know downs is on one level. Talking to NFL teams, it's like downs is on one level. Teams are higher than on downs, by the way. Don't get twisted by the media. Teams. Teams are higher on downs. Teams think that like you got a tough decision to make. They're not saying he's going five to the Giants, but like you, you absolutely do need to consider him at five

Daniel Jeremiah (24:08)

teams where he ends up in your last month. I can't wait.

Todd McShay (24:11)

He doesn't. There's multiple teams. Don't think he gets past Cincinnati at 10. So you get downs in that elite level then teams I've spoken to at least there's, there's. There's a lot of like for Emw Emmanuel, Neil Warren coming out of Toledo and by like, I mean like really, really like. But it's more late first, early second, fringe. Right. But for a team like a Chicago sitting at what, 25, that needs an edge or a safety and could surprise and go offensive tackle, but it looks like edge or safety. They're looking for versatility of that position. That's. It's a possibility. But teams I talk to won't be shocked if he's still sitting there and goes in the first five picks of round two. And there's a lot of players like that this year. Thienaman is. Is in between those two. He's not the lead elite, but they'll be surprised if he look at Minnesota. Chicago's another one. That he's the second safety. That doesn't mean all teams. I'm not talking. I didn't talk to 32 teams this weekend. I'm just saying there's a feeling. So that that's kind of your top three and that kind of. If you want to tier it, it's downs, D manual, McNeil, Warren. Okay, then after that and we'll get to this name in a little bit. Trade ins, trade in stooks from. From Arizona is like I think very clearly the number four safety for. For teams I'm talking to. But then you got Bud Clark and you get Jalen Kilgore.

Daniel Jeremiah (25:42)

Jaylen Kilme was an interesting player.

Todd McShay (25:44)

Very interesting player who's a big physic. Like he's like almost could put be like a corner like a. But also a big nickel, you know, like. But got. But got worked over by Antonio Williams. That was if you want to see his negative game that, that Clemson games, his negative game had funny conversations about Antonio Williams needs new cleats. Like, why is he slipping so much in some of his routes for as good as a route. So like these are the conversations I'm having. It's not just like who's going one. Who's going to it. Like every single person I talk to, we go through the positions. What are you hearing? Medical character. What'd you see? We aligned or if we're not aligned, let's talk about it. And then I think after, after you get to like the Stooks and the Clark and the Halsey, A.J. halsey from LSU and the Kilgore, then it gets to Vijay Payne. If I'm being honest with you. There's a sense in the league probably, but not definitively a Saturday early guy. Yeah. But wouldn't be surprised for the right team. The second we saw Eamon War get drafted by Seattle, we're like, he's going to be a star. Right.

Daniel Jeremiah (26:50)

Right.

Todd McShay (26:50)

Wouldn't be surprised if that was a late, late day two pick. The player that's got a lot of love is Kamari Ramsey. Go back to the 2024 tape. They utilize him in a different role this past year.

Daniel Jeremiah (27:00)

Way better on that tape.

Todd McShay (27:02)

Way better.

Daniel Jeremiah (27:03)

In 2024, I. I went back because I wasn't blown away with 2025 and I went back and watched all the. His targets from 20 man. Different player.

Todd McShay (27:12)

Yeah. So for all the scumbags that get their pen and paper out right now, we're giving you a lot of like, what's really going on with the NFL teams.

Daniel Jeremiah (27:22)

Here we go.

Todd McShay (27:23)

Not you, not you. You. The. The fine viewers and. And listeners on. On Netflix, Spotify, Apple Audio and everywhere else, you get your podcasts. Not, not the, not our, not our audience, not our friends of the show. You know, but if you have a pen and paper out right now, you're probably one of the people I'm referring to the drafting off the lead car. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's the feel for the safety class and how it's probably going to going to roll out in the first through the first four rounds of the draft. This episode is brought to you by Men's Wearhouse on the lookout for new clothes. It doesn't have to feel overwhelming, just check out Men's Wearhouse. They've got you covered with for every occasion with a huge variety of clothing and styles. If you've got a formal event, they've got tailored clothing like suits, sports coats, dress shirts and tuxes. Then for relaxing in front of the game, they've got your polos, shirts, shorts and jeans for everyday wear. And if you're not sure what your look is, the Men's Wearhouse experts can guide you while their on site tailors guarantee your clothes fit your body perfectly. Men's wearhouse has over 600 locations nationwide. They are here and nearby when you're ready to love the way you look

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Todd McShay (29:12)

K Pop Demon Hunters Saja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Tricks Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (29:29)

It is our larger honor.

Todd McShay (29:31)

No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle.

Daniel Jeremiah (29:36)

Pick a meal to pick a side

Todd McShay (29:40)

and participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

Daniel Jeremiah (29:42)

Yeah, I just got to tell you man, we're going through this. I'm on the ringer.com Tom McShay when you see my eyes go down the ringer.com Todd McShay and you see my eyes go down I'm playing on the

Todd McShay (29:52)

big board or slash McShay if you don't want to type too many words in those extra and I'M just sitting these four letters.

Daniel Jeremiah (29:58)

Tabs, man. Like, I'm like, oh, let's talk about the safeties. Just hit the. Hit the safety tab. I'm gonna talk about a guard right now. Hit the interior offensive line. I mean, Dan Comer is killing it with getting this all up. The content's amazing, the site looks amazing. It's just unbelievable. But the guy I want to talk to you about is. You've got a log jam here. You have three guards with an 85. I know they're ranked 45, 46, 47. Those three guards are Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech, Emmanuel Pregnant from Oregon, and then Chase Passantis from Texas A M. The guy I want to talk about is Chase Basantis because I think there's been some. And you tell me not to do it, but some Twitter mafia love for him, maybe as a potential first round pick. Which makes me think that someone somewhere said that I don't love the player that much. I don't. I'm not as high. I don't. I think there's a drop off between Rutledge and Pregnant and Passantis. And Basantis is super athletic. He's a very good player. Don't get me wrong. He's probably a day two guy. I think he's more of probably round three for me. But he had sub 32 inch arms at the combine, which is hard to trust now. Man. I went back and looked. Dame Brugler had a tweet about this last year where it was 43 of the 46 offensive linemen. This is last year, not this year, but 43 of the 46 offensive linemen who are measured at the combine had longer arms at their pro day. So it's. It's becoming a thing. And we see this again this year. I don't have the specific numbers, but I am always looking at protein numbers for the offensive lineman to try to get a more accurate or the senior bell ones. So Besantis was sub 32. He was only 32 at his pro day. So this is a guy with short arms. And I think again, well, does it show up on tape or not? To me it does. I mean, it shows up on tape with the way he overextends and the way he loses as a pass blocker.

Todd McShay (31:44)

There are a ton of reps. You're

Daniel Jeremiah (31:46)

looking at him and you're like, man, that guy's athletic. He moves really well. He's a great pass blocker. And then you mix in. You're like, oh, There's. There's kind of a fatal flaw here, and I do get concerned that it's going to be more exposed at the NFL level. But three. I. I don't know. You usually don't do this. You don't like this.

Todd McShay (32:03)

This is.

Daniel Jeremiah (32:03)

Your. Your brain doesn't operate like this. Tell me if I'm wrong. But your brain does not like looking down. And because you're always say to me, and when Kevin was with us, make up your goddamn mind. Like, get off the fence and shoes, right? So here you are. I mean, we're 10 days to the draft, and I. I was stunned to see 45, 46, 47, same grade, three offensive guards,

Todd McShay (32:30)

very fair points, especially the. Get off the fence. You're part of the problem, if it is a problem, because quite frankly, I. I think it goes. I don't. Here's the deal. You have a. You like Rutledge a lot more than you like Basantis, I think. I don't think there's a big gap between the. You and I both like pregnant a lot.

Daniel Jeremiah (33:03)

Right?

Todd McShay (33:03)

You like. I like Basantis more than you like Besantis, but I don't love him. You like pregnant a lot, as I said. And you love Rutledge, and so I'm probably a little higher on Basantis. You're lower. And I'm trying to kind of keep everything in mind. And you're my offensive line guy, so I. I defer to you. And I. It's not that I don't trust, like, I trust you implicitly at every single position. It's just like, when you're this adamant about something, it affects. I'm going to like, okay, here's what I do know. Let's just talk about what NFL teams are saying. I think I have them in the right range. Okay.

Daniel Jeremiah (33:54)

I think that you're right about that.

Todd McShay (33:56)

I talked to one team, and it's pregnant. If you're just talking about these three guards after Venge. Ioane, like, across the board. And I see, like, on Twitter, he's not that athletic. He's not this. He's not that. He's so overrated. He. He's not. Who's the. Who's the guard? He's not Quentin Nelson. He's. And. And people will agree with that. But everyone I talk to, in a draft where you don't have, like, it's not like quarterbacks and edge rushers and offensive tackles that are elite, elite, elite. When you don't have, you know, like, the Boses one year or. Or who? Give me some names. You don't have Joe Alt in offensive tackle. You don't have. Yeah, you know, if you don't have. What, possess offensive tackle edge. If you don't have the quarterbacks, right. Don't have Miles Garrett. You don't have Khalil Mack. You know, like, right. When you don't have those guys up top teams are also looking at this a little bit like last year and saying he's the safest offensive lineman in this draft. I love Maui Noah, but he might be a guard and is he a right tackle and like the guy that I know And I talked to someone yesterday who said flat out, he's like those three guards. I went in the first round, right, and it started at what, 12 with Tyler Brooker, Tyler Booker, 12 for Dallas. He's like, this guy's better than Tyler Booker. He's like, so if. If you're, you know, if you're going off of that. And you and I both agree with that.

Daniel Jeremiah (35:32)

So.

Todd McShay (35:33)

So Yoana, across the league is the best guard. But then there are these. These three guys that belong early second round. But there are teams in the back end of the first round that are looking at it and saying, I don't want to miss on my first round pick. And so if they're higher on pregnant. Maybe that's a pregnant team, right? They're higher on Basantis. Maybe that's a. Maybe that's a Besantis team if they're higher on Rutledge. And that's why you're seeing in some of these mock drafts now, because you talk to people around the league, and maybe the person you talk to last or the person that you trust the most is saying, like, yeah, it won't shock me. I got about 12 guys that are in the don't. It won't shock me. Don't be shocked if could. Could be in the last five, six picks of the first round. So that's what's going on in the league, and that's what's going on with the information coming out. And that's why a Peter Schrager, after all of his conversations, may throw into this guy or Daniel Jeremiah may throw into that guy. You know, it could be Rutledge one week, it could be Besantis another week. That's the fallout. I think they're all in that 35 to 45 range, 47 range, whatever it is, and maybe they creep up a little bit in our final rankings, but think it's going to be Right around there. And you and I are going to sit down and we're going to go through tomorrow. We're going to go through three rounds of a mock draft. We'll have some discussions there. Then we got a flight out to LA and we're. And we got all day Monday and we're going to go through final discussions and set our board. So maybe we get a little bit of separation. But I'm going to guess they're within six, seven, eight, nine picks of one. Another six, seven. I know. That's why I went eight, nine.

Daniel Jeremiah (37:13)

Let me ask you this really quickly because I think it applies to Desantis. How much weight do you put into a bad tape? How much? How much? And I'm going to say specifically with him, Miami. And that was with a lot of offensive linemen, man, I know it's tackles, but Basantis was not good in the Miami game. That's how he ended his career. It's hard for me to get it out of his. Out of my mind how poor he was in past protection in that game. Other games, he was fine. How much do you put into one? I mean, I don't want to say terrible. That's, you know, like a poor performance that they just don't play well. And you can. If you're someone who's in a draft room and saying, we shouldn't take this guy, this is the tape you're pulling up. So what? How much weight do you put in that?

Todd McShay (37:54)

I think traits. It's more prevalent with offensive tackles. I think with guards, specifically I teams, when I talk to them, it's. Our online coach loves him. It's. He's nasty, he's dependable, he's durable. He's going to be there. And I can count. He's smart. I can count. And don't forget this part, because we don't. We don't. We're not working for a scheme. He fits what we do. Those are the conversations I have. Our line coach loves this guy, man. He fits what we do. He's the character of that offensive line room. He's. He's an, he's an additive. He's a force multiplier in that old line room, that O line. Right. You talked to Mickey Loomis and he was talking about how he was raised on, like, that old line room has got to be like the, the, the foundation of your football team. And I don't disagree. Your D line room, your D line room should be the bouncers at the club. Your O line room should be the dependable, consistent force with intelligence and no nonsense and an element of toughness and an element of, like, teammates and protecting our. Our. Our quarterback and our. Just who we are. Okay. And so a lot of times it comes down to that, man. I'm. I'm just comfortable with that guy. He's what we want, you know? So it part interviews, background checks, and, like, I can code. Yeah, I saw. I saw those five plays against Miami. We can. We're not going to ask him to do that, you know, so that's. That's kind of where a lot of that stuff happens, I think. I don't think.

Daniel Jeremiah (39:31)

I know.

Todd McShay (39:33)

Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (39:34)

All right, you're. Let's get in your buckets. You're a buckets guy. Let's talk about some of your buckets in the top 200 and some of the players that you want to talk about. I was yelled at last week because I apparently talked too much about my players. I want to give you the floor, make sure that, you know, your feelings don't get hurt this week.

Todd McShay (39:49)

I didn't yell at you, did I?

Daniel Jeremiah (39:51)

Yeah, a little bit. You were like, dude, I had five names. I had five names. Arguing about. Yeah, yeah.

Todd McShay (39:57)

Made for a better show. So some interesting stuff, right? Oh, man, I've got so many.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:03)

There's a lot to unpack in this thing, man. You could. We could still.

Todd McShay (40:06)

I'm still printing stuff out, by the way. I'm still printing out my. My reports. I gotta break the habit. I'm bringing an iPad. I'm going to LA with an iPad, not with notebooks.

Daniel Jeremiah (40:17)

Got that, Marissa? He doesn't need anything printed, Marissa.

Todd McShay (40:19)

Theringer.com McShay is where I'm going to be working off of, but not today. Predictably, the receivers and the edge rushers are fascinating to NFL teams. The questions I get most, and I told you where I get my intel is not necessarily like me asking a question. It's where do I get the questions? And I've got so much stuff that's mock draft driven that I'm going to unpack this afternoon as I start the mock 1.0 and we'll finish it tomorrow and you and I will do. Or, sorry, mock 4.0 that comes out on Wednesday. Fired up for that. We'll have a show on Wednesday. It'll be live on the website theringer.com mcshay and. And then mock in the second round of the mock will be out on the newsletter. And you don't have to Google the McShay report anymore. Go to theringer.com mcshay and you can get all there and subscribe for the premium content and then more premium content. That'll roll out the next several days before we get out to la. Team needs. But in addition to just doing team needs for all 32 teams, we're going to have three rounds worth of a mock. So you can look and say, okay, this is how our draft could look after the first three rounds. Which is pretty cool. Something we've never done before. Okay. So with all that said, the edge, right. The questions I'm getting the most on where's this offensive tackle run going to go? And I'm like, oh, they're going, they want an offensive tackle. They're sitting in the teens or the twenties. When, when's that run after the first two guys going to, you know, where's Proctor go? Could he go as high as six? Cleveland move out of six? And then it's the edge rushers, where's that, that second run going to go after Arvell, after David Bailey, Arvell Reese and Ruben Bain and Macedor, it kind of seems like where are those other guys going to go? So let's start with edge and wide receivers. The same thing. The edge rush is going to go a little bit earlier than the, the second edge rush after David Bailey and Arvell, Reese and Bain and even maybe Macedor, where's that second edge run gonna go? And I say that because teams are really curious about. All right,

Daniel Jeremiah (42:36)

now

Todd McShay (42:38)

we've got I, Keldrick Falk I think will be the fifth edge off the board after the four names I just mentioned.

Daniel Jeremiah (42:47)

Okay.

Todd McShay (42:47)

Based off of my intel. Okay, scumbags, get your, get your pens and paper, get your, get your notes out on your phone. But then the question becomes this mensch. And this is what's fascinating to me. Where does that next run go? Because if, if, if Falk in reverse order, Falk and Macedor and Bain and Reese and Bailey are all gone in like the top 20. Do I have to use a late first round pick on Zion Young, TJ Parker, Gabe Akis, AR Mason Thomas, Cassius. Cash as hell is going to be an interesting one.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:31)

You think he's going first round? No way.

Todd McShay (43:33)

I don't anymore.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:35)

Yeah, me neither.

Todd McShay (43:36)

There's. There's some stuff to sort through and with. With the arm length and there's just

Daniel Jeremiah (43:42)

some worried about the run defense.

Todd McShay (43:44)

There's, there's a lot there some other stuff too. So the.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:48)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (43:48)

How Howell's a firm second Rounder.

Daniel Jeremiah (43:51)

Okay, okay.

Todd McShay (43:53)

But then it's all right if we don't get one of those guys, there's still some dudes that we're interested in. And the two that teams are asking me the most about, and the first one actually will be a part of that second run. Talking the second round. Malachi Lawrence.

Daniel Jeremiah (44:12)

Yep.

Todd McShay (44:13)

And so then when they ask me about Malachi Lawrence, I say, well, okay, the run tape's not as good. And then there's a lot of noise. No, I know that. And there's a lot of noise about the effort versus the run compared to. Because that's what you're going to read right now, talking to people. I, I, I just think he's tall and he's lean, and I don't think he is like the most complete player versus the run. And you can see there on our spider graph on, on our scouting report, it's just, it's not his strength. But why do pass. Why do edges get paid? They get paid to rush the quarterback.

Daniel Jeremiah (44:49)

Right.

Todd McShay (44:49)

And, and, and do you see that toughness motor thing that everyone's been questioning? I didn't question it. You didn't question it?

Daniel Jeremiah (44:57)

No.

Todd McShay (44:58)

I talked to a GM yesterday, dude. I don't, like, I don't, I don't know what you're reading. Did you watch the tape? Did you have a problem with this toughness? No, I didn't, but there, but there are reports out there now. He's like, yeah, he's like, he's like, trust your eyes. He's like, I love his toughness versus the run. He's just not great at it.

Daniel Jeremiah (45:18)

No, he's not. Yeah, yeah, but David B.

Todd McShay (45:21)

But David Bailey's not great at it, and he's probably going to be the number two overall pick. And then.

Daniel Jeremiah (45:25)

Right.

Todd McShay (45:26)

And then the thing I was point, I was pointed back to, he's like, do you love the tape? I was like, yes. What do you love about the tape? I'm like, he plays his ass off. He's got a motor. He's a great pass rusher. He's actually advanced. I was worried he was going to be this developmental guy. He's at the East West Shrine, ucf. He's not on tape. And you were the first one to market with it. Mensch and I agreed and came and stamped it. And then you, and then how many guys have 6, 4, 2, 53, but 33 and 5, 8 inch arm length at the combine, which means it's right around 34 inches, probably. If you're going off of everybody else's arms grew at pro day with a 40 yard dash that was second best of the edge rushers right or no sorry. Vertic vertical jump of 40 inches. Second best 10 TED broad best lower body explosion 4 5, 2. Second best of the. Of the. And this is, this isn't some 6 3, 2, 45 guy, right? This is 6, 4 and almost a half 253 running a 4, 5, 2. And what did I always tell you? It started with the Bill Polian thing. And as I've talked to GMs around the league, that 160 number, you run a 160 or faster, that 10 yard split, it's elite. Well, he had the best or second best at 6043-253-lbs in the 10 yard split with a 1 5, 9. So Malachi Lawrence is going higher than people are trying to indicate. Recently it's been his stock has been. Yeah, I kind of like him in day two possibly to could he go late first two? Yeah. But he doesn't play the run. He's not tough versus run two. Talking to teams in the league, it's like no, he's, he's. He might not get out of the top 50.

Daniel Jeremiah (47:12)

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean the other.

Todd McShay (47:16)

Go ahead.

Daniel Jeremiah (47:17)

He's got the same frame that Khil Mack had coming out of Buffalo. Tape's not as good but Khil Mack played at Buffalo. It, it's just to me that's a very intriguing comp. That is the absolute ceiling. Don't get me wrong. Khil Mack is an unbelievable player. That's the absolute ceiling. But there are shades of that of Khalil Max game in Malachi Morris and

Todd McShay (47:37)

so, so then, then you start looking at who are the other guys. Right. Who are the other guys at edge when you get into day three and there's a lot of mixed people love Kieran Crawford. They recognize he's not great versus the run. But my gosh, is he a tone setter coming out of Auburn?

Daniel Jeremiah (47:52)

I love him.

Todd McShay (47:53)

I love them too. I just love him. But I recognize like probably can't use a first second round pick on him. Yeah, the size and he's. But the guys who I think are Saturday guys that could come in if there's a run late on On Day Day 2, Joshua Joseph's Tennessee Donnie Dennis Sutton looks the part. What are you getting from Penn State?

Daniel Jeremiah (48:18)

Kind of. Yeah, that surprised me a little bit how high he was. But go ahead.

Todd McShay (48:22)

LT Overton I think is going to Be a Saturday guys. We go and re rack all these things. I just. He's. Is he, is he versatile or is he kind of a tweener and more so does he love ball? I'll just be honest. That's, that's kind of the weight fluctuation. The like the, the tape fluctuation. That's kind of, that's, that's the reason if he doesn't go in the first three rounds, it's a little bit of like is what are we going to

Daniel Jeremiah (48:48)

get Another player I thought had a better 24 than 25.

Todd McShay (48:53)

Yes, very clear. Like Derek Moore is going to go in the, in on day two. The Michigan edge. Powerful, long, all that stuff. Still developing a little in some ways. But the other Michigan guy who I watched his tape very recently even is. Is, is recently not my tape watching even as recently as the usc. If you watch his tape right throughout the course of the year he's playing a lot of off ball versus usc. Was it USC or was it Oklahoma? It was early in the year. It might have been Oklahoma. And then all of a sudden you see this shift. What week did they play usc? I swear he was off ball.

Daniel Jeremiah (49:36)

He was almost off ball exclusively last year and then earlier this year.

Todd McShay (49:39)

Last year, but even early this year. Yeah, the conversion, the true conversion kind of happened as the season progressed. Where you saw a lot more of him at. Yeah, is my point. Teams are asking me a lot of questions about him, which means he's going and I think he's going to go in the first three, first three rounds. I think he's going to be gone by the time we get to Saturday and I want to. I don't feel like we've talked enough about him. The toughness in the motor is sensational. His versatility is obvious. You know, as an off ball linebacker. Edge who can drop and cover, who can rush the quarterback. He's not as skilled like in terms of his array of pass rushers, pass rush moves yet. But, but JJ J. Sean Barham from Michigan is a player that teams are really intrigued by. Like huh. I. In the. Maybe in the 80s or 90s I can get this guy and, and see what he can provide. He ran a 161 split right there. Yeah, he's right there around the number. He had 82. So 24 and 25. He totaled 193 total tackles, 23 for loss, 12 sacks, 82 pressures. That's so much. And he wasn't even exclusively an edge. 80, 82 pressures. Man, seven pass breakups. An interception. And you watch his tape and yeah, he's still learning how he's still learning some stuff as an edge rusher. But like Jalen Walker, you know where you have these guys in the first round, we've seen a lot of these conversion guys and, and I, I look at it and I talk to teams and it's like, yeah, it makes sense. I liked him. I, he played 586 career snaps at edge. 311 of those were in 20, 25. The flashes I wrote just so intriguing. Like, oh, man, there's so much here. You know,

Daniel Jeremiah (51:35)

I think people remember him for the headbutt in the Ohio State game with the ref.

Todd McShay (51:40)

Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (51:40)

Which is unfortunate because it's, he's a, he's a good player, man. Like, he is a, he's a very good player with a lot of upside.

Todd McShay (51:49)

Yeah, I, I'm, I'm cool with it. I, I, I told you I, I need my edge guys to be absolute psychos, you know, like, and he, and he's not even like, he, I mean,

Daniel Jeremiah (51:59)

maybe, maybe not headbutting roughs refs, but I get you. I got you.

Todd McShay (52:03)

I hope you. My point is wiring.

Daniel Jeremiah (52:06)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (52:07)

The bouncers at the club.

Daniel Jeremiah (52:08)

Right.

Todd McShay (52:09)

Yeah. And he, I thought he actually set a weirdly hard edge for £240. I really did. I, I don't know. He's a guy that's that. I think we. You're hearing a lot about the Overtons, the Josephs and other guys. I'm getting questions on, on Jayshawn Barham and where he's going to wind up going. And so that, that leads me to believe the Dan denied Dennis Sutton. Those are the guys that you're hearing a lot about. But Barum is the guy that's that NFL, multiple NFL teams are asking me about because they're starting to look at this thing and say, all right, well, I may need a tackle or I may need a receiver in the second round or I may need this interior defensive lineman or whatever position. Who can I get? Who's going to be around when I pick in the third, you know?

Daniel Jeremiah (52:59)

Yeah. I like this group. Denied in a son is a little high for me. I wouldn't be surprised if you're. Last year at last iteration of these grades, he drops a little bit behind.

Todd McShay (53:07)

Yeah. He's not, Yeah, I wasn't, I didn't stay true to myself in that. And you know what? If he goes in the top 100, then I don't care. I'm, I'm gonna, it's gonna be our guys in the top 100. And then obviously there's some intel to try to try to keep that huddle report score. I. All right, wide receivers, what are you saying? Just the.

Daniel Jeremiah (53:33)

The I.

Todd McShay (53:34)

It's. It's tough.

Daniel Jeremiah (53:35)

Like, I get it. We have this. We have this debate every year of knowing where a guy's gonna go and. And how much does it affect the grade. And we don't listen. We're not moving guys rounds. That's not happening. But like, when it comes down to separators.

Todd McShay (53:51)

Well, here's the thing, men. It truly. There's like 15. I know I drive you nuts. I know there's 15 guys that either. That honestly could go late third, early fourth. And so if we have 30 guys that are of like 68 to 71 grades, what I'm doing is I'm going in and. And they're all in this bucket. And even if I. As I talked to teams yesterday, they're like, yeah, the. That safety could go late 3. If the safety run happens, that edge could go late or late third round. Yeah, if the. If. If the edge runs, that corner could go. But. So I'm trying. I'm leaning on intel to separate this bucket of players. I'm not moving a fifth into the third because I want to have. Have the highest. The huddle report dot com.

Daniel Jeremiah (54:40)

But I will still call you and tell you that I like the Toledo center more than I like the. The Michigan safety.

Todd McShay (54:47)

The grade hasn't changed. He's just. He's 101 on the board.

Daniel Jeremiah (54:52)

Yep.

Todd McShay (54:54)

Wide receivers are interesting. We'll get to more of it when we do the mock draft on Wednesday. The Tate vs. Lemon vs. Tyson thing is wild. I'm still really.

Daniel Jeremiah (55:08)

I thought t. I thought Tate won is Tate is Tate not one race.

Todd McShay (55:11)

Tate is. Is one for most teams. I thought it was the teams. The teams that are. Are intrigued by Tyson. Chiefs being one of them, picking at nine. Maybe don't were here. Here's the thing. The toughness thing we talked about. I don't think, like, for me, it wasn't a thing. And we covered that ad nauseam last week. For you. It wasn't a thing. Yeah, he's not going to. He's not going to be the strongest through the catch point. But not many guys can separate and catch the ball and can give you first downs and some big plays like this guy can. Truly. It's. That knee injury was severe. It was an ACL and mcl, a PCL and. And the medical rechecks are coming back and some teams are doing their offensive stuff and so there' and some teams just finished with it. It's more long term, like, and it's not degenerative as much as it is. Like, could this be some. You know, it's the medical teams come in and they're talking to football guys. It's like, all right, so if we're trying to build this thing five, seven years, right? But if you're the Chiefs and you get Mahomes and we're looking at a maybe a two, three year window and. And we got Kelsey's back for one more year, you know, like, yeah, maybe it's not as important. Medical grades are different for different teams because of what their, what their mission statement is, if you will, for lack of a better phrase. That's why it's interesting. Those are the three best receivers. What's also interesting is Omar Cooper for some teams is not as high as what this recent push has been. Media wise. People really like him. Is he that dynamic when we're talking about a top 15 pick? Oh, a top 15.

Daniel Jeremiah (57:12)

I get. Okay, okay. I'm glad he's top 15 for some people.

Todd McShay (57:17)

The number I would. The number I was throwing around in these conversations was as a top 20 pick and the pushback I got, I'm not saying 32 teams. I'm saying a couple teams love them. Don't forget, like Omar Cooper, when we talked about it early in the process, like, is he a third? Is he a second? And we dive into his tape and we're like, really like him. Like. But my true grade was later, first. And where do we have him right now? I think like 25th in the class, something like that.

Daniel Jeremiah (57:47)

19.

Todd McShay (57:48)

Okay, 19. So it's. Right, it's hovering around that range. And the pushback is we got offensive tackles, we get edges, we get, you know, we get these six or six to eight elite players. We got like 12 or 13 true first round grades in every year. Is. He's not one of those guys. And he's not. So I'm just.

Daniel Jeremiah (58:08)

But you said there's 12 of those.

Todd McShay (58:10)

No, no, I just want, I want.

Daniel Jeremiah (58:11)

I just kind of like, as you always say, you want to further the conversation. I'm not killing you. Like, my reaction is we think there's 12 of those players. The two corners, then the edges, the tackles. Mendoza, right. Love styles. When it all adds up. There's 12 players there, right.

Todd McShay (58:27)

And they're broken into different groups. Here, here's what you want to. Or let's get into it. Go ahead. Yeah, go Mendoza. Because he's going one. This is not ranked by. This is just kind of. I actually went. These are the 12. When talking to teams, I broke it into two. Two categories. Okay. These are the six of the first. If we're talking about the 12, this is the first tier of that 12. It's Mendoza and Love. On the offensive side, it's Bailey, Reese, Styles and Downs. On the defensive side, that's six. Get your pens out, scumbags.

Daniel Jeremiah (59:05)

I don't know why I love that.

Todd McShay (59:07)

Then, then there's the second tier. And notice the offensive tackles aren't in there, the receivers aren't in there, the corners aren't in there. Delane, despite the, the McCoy 40 and the workout and all that, Delane for most teams is still very clearly the number one corner. But in that second group. And you, I know you and I both agree, but I also like for. If you're a man to man team versus if you're. If you're a little bit more match and all that I got you like the Saints are going to want Delane definitively. Some teams are pure man to man and like in McCoy might. But. But for the most part it's Delane. So in that second tier, when we get to the 12 to 12 or so guys, it's Carnell, Tate and Delane. At the top of that second tier, it's the two offensive tackles, Maui, Noah and Fano. It's bane and it's McCoy and it's Lemon and it's Tyson. Right. And it's Sadiq. And then you for the. And then you get past and. Oh, and. And it's. And it's. It's Venga Yana. Yep. So I didn't count that number, but it should be right around 12. Right. Because it was.

Daniel Jeremiah (60:28)

Right.

Todd McShay (60:28)

It was six in the first list. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Yeah. With Tate and Delane, the two offensive tackles, Bain and McCoy, that's 12. And then you get to this. Those Tyson and Lemon for most teams would come after that 12 as we laid out for you last week.

Daniel Jeremiah (60:45)

Right.

Todd McShay (60:47)

Sadiq would probably be at the top of that group with the wide receivers. Then you get into the other offensive tackle tackles like the Proctor and those guys. Freeling, Blake, Miller. Yeah. And then you're in the Momari Cooper range, you know, with some other guys too. So that's how teams are looking at it for the most part.

Daniel Jeremiah (61:11)

So what makes Mikhail Lemon so goddamn dynamic? Like I don't, I don't get that. Like, why is he so dynamic? And Omar Cooper is.

Todd McShay (61:18)

Well, he's not in that first tier or second tier.

Daniel Jeremiah (61:20)

I know, but we're talking about him in that 15 to 20 range. Right? Like, we're talking about him in that range.

Todd McShay (61:26)

Some teams aren't as high on Lemon as others, I'll be honest.

Daniel Jeremiah (61:29)

Okay.

Todd McShay (61:29)

I think for the most, higher than Cooper. I tried to tell you this a week. A week or two ago.

Daniel Jeremiah (61:36)

Yeah, you did.

Todd McShay (61:36)

The receivers are not as high, but there are some teams out there lurking that look at Tyson just like you look at Tyson. So don't push back on this. Mensch. You've told me all along, Jordan, Tyson's the best receiver. If you tell me he's going to be healthy and play well. If you're the Chiefs, if you're a couple. If you're the. I don't. I don't want to throw the Rams in there because I. Some teams think the Rams are Lemon. Some teams think the Rams are Denzel, Boston. My intel is telling me you've got one receiver, maybe two at the top. If you're cool with his. If you're cool with his injury stuff, Tyson, then it's Lemon. But for other teams, it's Tate and Lemon, and they're not cool on his. On the. So basically, their grade is going to be in spot where they're not taking Tyson anyway. And it's not about the toughness. It's about longevity.

Daniel Jeremiah (62:30)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (62:30)

Okay. That I understand. And then from the teams I'm talking to, the fourth receiver is kind of Denzel, Boston, and Conception and Concepcion. Conceptual over Cooper. Yes. Don't kill the messenger. No, I'm just telling.

Daniel Jeremiah (62:52)

No, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you.

Todd McShay (62:53)

I talked to two teams that just. Just said Tate, Tate, Lemon, Tyson, in whatever order, depending on. Depending on what you want. I'm actually reading my notes. Tate's the safest. You know what you're getting. Tyson's got the most upside.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:06)

But.

Todd McShay (63:07)

But the longevity. Lemon is. Is the guy that, like, he's a really good player. Yeah. Like I told you, the interviews haven't been awesome. There's some inconsistency there. Is he as dynamic as you think? But those are the three for most teams. Then. Then it's Concepcion and Cooper and Denzel in a. In a bucket.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:29)

Yep.

Todd McShay (63:29)

For some teams, it was Concepcion, Denzel, and Cooper.

Daniel Jeremiah (63:33)

Interesting.

Todd McShay (63:33)

I'm just telling you it is. I hear you. I have all these notes. Like, I'm. I'm like. And I wrote next to Cooper. Why not Dynamic one Guy said we're split within the organization. Some are. He's mid for like clearly that. Some are. Some. Some are. We're like early. Second is the value based off of how we evaluate. You know. And there's fights inside their. Like they haven't resolved it. They haven't resolved it yet. Which is awesome.

Daniel Jeremiah (64:07)

Good. There should be. Yeah.

Todd McShay (64:10)

And then after that and this is what I wanted to get to and it took us a while to get there, but it was important. We just had that conversation because it gives you context. Then there's this intriguing the wild card for everyone is Bell. Chris Bell, Louisville, coming off the injury ACL against SMU November 22, 2025. Missed the final games surgery. Not recovered in time to participate in pre draft as we all know, but ahead of schedule according to the doctors. If you look@mcshay.com or ringer.com mcshay you can see there the competitiveness. Not good. Erratic. The tape is up and down. Where is he on the. Is he running the routes? Is he where he needs to be? Is he blocking the separation? Not great. But my goodness, does this dude catch the ball and does he transition? That's the thing. Two different guys I talked to yesterday, they were likening it to think about like what Green Bay's got and the Steelers have gotten. He. He is the wild card in this group because if you're comfortable with them and even if you're kind of not, he could be so damn explosive. His transition acceleration after the catch, if you can scheme him up to get him open and get him one step on a defender slash defense where his momentum catch through. He provides a different element than a lot of these other guys. And I look at him like. Like contested catches. Nah. 5050 ball is only 46.2 this past year, but his pluck and transition smoothly is what gets everyone. And that explosive second gear. I wrote it in my report. I'm read. I'm literally reading my report. The 13:35 fourth quarter versus Miami. That example. You watch that play. It's what NFL teams are talking to me about with him. And so while you don't know what you're getting and you're worried about all the other stuff, like AJ Brown is a handful.

Daniel Jeremiah (66:23)

Yeah. Is Debo comp. Is there any Debo there?

Todd McShay (66:26)

Absolutely.

Daniel Jeremiah (66:28)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (66:29)

But faster. Debo had some stuff coming out. AJ Brown had some stuff. DK Metcalf had some stuff. They all went in in the second round. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Daniel Jeremiah (66:40)

I think that's right.

Todd McShay (66:42)

South Carolina For Debo and Ole Miss for. For the other two. Okay, so Chris Bell is a guy that I think is going to wind up maybe going in the top 50 despite the injury, the lack of competitiveness, the up and down tape, the inability to separate because he can do something that very few others can't. And he's going to be in the range. But I. I'm starting to think by my conversations, it's going to go Bell, the. The. The Triple Bs. Kuiper would have a field day with this. I can hear him right now. It's the bees. It's the second round Bs.

Daniel Jeremiah (67:13)

It's the BBB.

Todd McShay (67:14)

It's Bell Brazil II from Tennessee. Those are. The two guys are like, not sure what we're getting, but my gosh, you can't teach your.

Daniel Jeremiah (67:25)

Intrigued. Yeah.

Todd McShay (67:26)

You can't teach 6 foot 4 and 4, 3 speed and, you know, and then the third B in that. That is my guy. Branch. And for opposite reasons, just small and straight line. She's tight. But part of what makes him tight is he so yoked up and thick, but tight as like a route runner, not as a guy.

Daniel Jeremiah (67:51)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (67:52)

All satellite Team Shea Report. He was. He was the. He was the. The award winner. So Those are the three Bs that we're looking at mid, late second round for teams. Okay. At wide receiver, then you get into the third round. Still a bunch of dudes, you know, Bernard. Jeremy Bernard from Alabama. Teams really like, late second, early third. Gotcha. And if. And if you're listening on Apple or wherever you're getting your podcast mention is just shaking his head because he likes Jeremy Bernard and he thinks I'm a sellout because I was first to market on Jeremy Bernard. Again, not dynamic enough. That's so, like. Let's get that.

Daniel Jeremiah (68:32)

I'm so tired of that term, dude.

Todd McShay (68:34)

Okay.

Daniel Jeremiah (68:34)

I'm so tired.

Todd McShay (68:35)

Antonio Williams that, like, we're talking now in that. In that range. Dion Branch. No, not the Dion Burke. Yeah, shout out.

Daniel Jeremiah (68:47)

Dion Branch.

Todd McShay (68:49)

Dion Branch. Zachariah Branch is late second, early third. Dion Burks is with like, the Antonio Williams and Bernard and all that. But the guy that I was thrilled to hear is one become one of my guys in this draft. A lot of love. Guess I actually.

Daniel Jeremiah (69:11)

Bryce Lance.

Todd McShay (69:13)

He's gonna go on the third. Who else? Oh,

Daniel Jeremiah (69:17)

your guy. Malachi Fields. Does he get in love now?

Todd McShay (69:20)

No, but probably third.

Daniel Jeremiah (69:22)

All right, what are we doing here?

Todd McShay (69:23)

Just tell me. Dejan Stribling, Ole Miss. Six, two, seven pounds. I should have guessed that run Catch, run, transition just love not as, not as explosive as as bell or not as explosive as Bell not as explosive or or like like with branch or Brazil. The the killer be killer bees. That's what Kuiper would be the killer bees in round two separation you know not great but when you're that big and you run a four three six bro and you get 10 inch hands bro. The great hands, the size speed and the catch after run. That's what everyone's saying and I agree. I mean it's all, it's all over our report. The big playability, the competitiveness, the toughness. They just love the guy. He's not getting out of the third.

Daniel Jeremiah (70:14)

It's kind of weird that a guy catches a has a hundred I mean 811 receiving yards for big time program that's in the playoffs and somehow he's kind of under the radar. It's kind of strange to me how how little buzz he's gotten. He's a good player.

Todd McShay (70:29)

He's a really good player. Last one it's safety we already covered all the safeties. I just want to get to a trade and Stukes from from Arizona is a guy I, I we have him at 52. He's I don't think he's getting out of the top 50. I was told by NFL teams if you're looking for one who could maybe sneak in he's like with the this is what I was told with Emmanuel Eman worry if the right scheme fit is there like he'd be a first round pick Seattle all day long and maybe a couple other organizations that are trying to do similar things from last year but only in that scheme fit Stukes the same thing that Arizona if you want to find one play on the best interception by any defensive back all year and we've already covered this but I'll repeat it for anyone who's kind of jumping in late to this process. That interception vs. Arizona State center field head top awesome. I mean he's he's six one of four picks it last year but yeah he's 61£190. Not the biggest cat but he's got those he's got like you know 32 inch arms basically almost 32 inch arms. The hand thing is interesting because his ball skills are so outstanding.

Daniel Jeremiah (71:45)

Right?

Todd McShay (71:46)

Yeah but the the 1:5 split shows that ability to accelerate and recover in a flash he the 38 inch vertical was fifth among safeties. The 1010 broad show in the lower body explosion for a lean Frame Guy was first among all safeties. All Big 12 this last year. 4 interceptions, 12 starts outside 26 starts in the slot. The versatility he brings. I don't think Stukes gets out of the top 50 according to my the conversation I had, we're right about where he's going to go, so it's not like. But I don't, I don't foresee, you know, kind of looking big picture.

Daniel Jeremiah (72:28)

Yeah, I freaking love him.

Todd McShay (72:32)

Get it all the ringer.com McShay Yes, Dan Comer has been absolutely grinding. We've he has lost at least a year, maybe a year and a half off of his life in the last few months. I I know he's enjoying working with us, generally speaking. I think maybe he's had some regrets in the last couple months. He's got good skin care, though. You know, I don't know what that means because he, he still looks young. We haven't ruined, we haven't ruined his looks yet. Oh, there we go. I'm trying to get him to go

Daniel Jeremiah (73:05)

to Vegas with me after the draft, blow off some steam.

Todd McShay (73:08)

Someone tells me that would be, that would be a, that would be a good thing for Dan. Yeah.

Daniel Jeremiah (73:12)

Yeah.

Todd McShay (73:13)

But we appreciate it. Check out, check out the site, though. It's all there. Wednesday's a huge show. We get the mock draft coming out. Like I told you, we're doing the mock draft, the first round, mock 4.0, first round, second round for the newsletter and and then we get the mention I are going to grind through tomorrow getting it ready for the third round and all the team needs this week is going to be loaded with content. You can get it all on the ringer.com McShay subscribe to the new the the newsletter the McShay Report. You can go to that website and click on it. If you want To Google the McShay report, you can get it. But this is the week that we're going to absolutely load you up with everything you need to know based off of all of our hard work and the valuations and now based off of a lot of the real information coming from NFL teams as we get you ready for just 10 days away, the 2026 NFL Draft. And we'll be out in LA for an entire week, like eight, nine days doing it all. MC from men from McShay to Mensch as I try to land this plane, not so eloquently. Five stars, buddy.

Daniel Jeremiah (74:12)

Thanks man.

Todd McShay (74:14)

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