B (2:37)

I'm good, man.

A (2:38)

All right. Play that sweet music for me. This is a fun time of year match and I say that because we've got the College Football Playoff coming up. Right. And it's a first year here like the maiden voyage. We've got four games this week. We'll get to all those games on Thursday. I want to stop down first of all and thank everyone who's who's been joining us here and we truly appreciate all the support we've gotten from, from, you know, the podcast, listening to on audio version, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast. The YouTube channel continues to grow. We're excited about that. And we'll be back on Saturday night for our first ever College Football Playoff reaction show. Got the one game on Friday and then three games on Saturday. And once that, that third and final game, the eight seed Ohio State versus nine seed Tennessee, that primetime games over, come join us. We're going to just come hang out. We're going to review all four of those games and start spinning it forward towards round two of the college football playoffs. Now, with all of that said, we're also excited on Thursday, as I mentioned, we'll preview the College Football Playoff games. And this isn't going to be the show where you get a lot of college coaches or NFL coaches for that matter. I'm not big on, you know, the coach speak and bring on guys that want to use this format and platform to recruit and say all the same things. But we kind of have a unique opportunity. Billy and Napier, for two reasons Florida head coach I wanted to bring on. One is I think it was one of the true, truly remarkable coaching jobs this year, taking that team that was falling apart, splintering in front of our eyes and all the talk about him getting fired and is he going to last the season to turning it around and becoming a giant killer down the stretch and watching him with DJ Lagway and developing that quarterback. So we want to talk about, talk to him about that process and just on a personal level, like what was this year like coaching for guys who's been through a lot of different wars in a lot of different roles. Okay. The other part is talk about a unique perspective and this is a real big reason why we want him on. He's coached against three of the College Football Playoff teams. So I want to pick his brain on Thursday. And I know you're excited about that too much. But today we figured it's kind of that in between time. Right. College football playoff games are coming up. We've got this one show on Tuesday, and we kind of were thinking this is a good time with scouts coming off the road, all the information we're getting, all the conversations we're getting, let's do a draft buzz. Let's just empty the notebook, see what we have so far. And I was talking to Tucker, one of our producers before. GMs are the ones you want to talk to. And I had a conversation with the GM this morning. They're the ones you really want to talk to leading up to the draft, like February, March, April, because it's more about where teams are drafting, what players are going to go where, what are the team needs right now. I love talking to area scouts. You know, they've been on the road for four months. They've been dissecting the tape, writing their reports, stacking their own boards to turn into general managers, talking to coaches, talking to the lunch lady or gentleman, talking, you know, like getting all the information that you could possibly get. And so there's a lot of good stories and a lot of good perspective. So with that in mind, and I mentioned Drew Aller, let's jump off there. Drew Aller decides to return to school. And I'm just looking at the quarterback rankings as we have them right now. Okay.

B (6:22)

Okay.

A (6:23)

Doris Sanders from Colorado, number one, Cam Ward from Miami, number two, Garrett Nussmeier from lsu, if he were, if he were coming out in this year's draft, would be right there with Cam Ward and fighting for that number two spot. Okay. Jaylen Milro, Alabama, undecided, whether he's going to, to return or not. From all the information I've gotten, he's going to play in, in their, in their bowl game, and we'll get to those decisions, too. And then Drew Aller, I mean, I've talked to some scouts, interestingly enough, that, that thought that Aller was potentially a late first, early second. I don't know. I, I'm not there yet on him. But, but, but I do think that there's, there's a lot of love in the NFL scouting community, but he's coming back.

B (7:08)

Let's see how the playoff goes. I mean, if the playoff go, goes really well, he could have played himself into that range, certainly. I think so. I don't, I don't know if I would have him there.

A (7:17)

Just because he's, he's made this decision now doesn't mean he's absolutely going to come back. But I think it's. I don't think you make that announcement if you're, if you don't have the right nil deal in place and, and you haven't thought this thing through a lot.

B (7:30)

Yeah. My point is that he could play himself into that first round conversation. I think he goes back regardless. I don't have him in the first round either right now, but if he has a great playoff, we could have been having a different conversation.

A (7:40)

Completely agree. I also think two names that we've talked a lot about, Carson Beck from Georgia up and down season, I think he's clearly in that kind of second tier of quarterbacks as we've talked about. And Quinn Ewers, so. So all of those names, right. Sanders and Ward are absolutely in this draft class and project as first round picks. I had a good conversation about those two this morning. I'll get back to that in a second. Milro is undecided. Nuss Meyers returning to school. Drew Aller is returning to school. So if Milro, if Milroe returns, that's three potentially of the top five quarterback prospects. That's one way of looking at it. Boy, this depletes the quarterback class in 2025. The other way to look at it and the way I'm really focused on it, to be honest, is how great is this for college football?

B (8:31)

Right.

A (8:31)

And how great is this for them as, as quarterbacks in their development and how we've seen guys come in like Bo Nix with, at the time that he entered the draft, the most college starts of any quarterback ever. Dylan Gabriel has since, you know, overtaken him there. But at the time, the most experience of any quarterback ever in college. Jaden Daniels with, What is it, 56 starts in college, Arizona State, LSU and the success they've had. For all the complaints about the nil and the transfer portal, I think the, one of the great byproducts of all of it is that these quarterbacks get the opportunity because of the financial benefit from returning to school, to actually develop the right way.

B (9:13)

Yeah, I'm having the same thought, man. I think it's. You're dead on. Let's take the optimistic, positive approach to this. I mean, sure, it does weaken this class, but I think it's makes next year's class that much more interesting and more importantly for the individual, for the player. I mean, we're not heartless here. We want guys to succeed and I think this is the best move for all of them. And I'll Go ahead and say it. I don't know if you're going to get to it. I think it's in Milro's best interest to go back too. And I hope that's the decision he kind of makes. Completely. I'm excited for Nuss Meyer and Aller. Like that's, that's great. Maybe they, and we've had this conversation, maybe they come out this year and they're, they're first round picks. Nuss Meyer nowhere. But they wouldn't go where they have the potential to go much earlier with strong seasons next year.

A (9:51)

And more importantly they, they're going to be more prepared to. Because we, we say it every. Drake May wasn't going to play this year. Right. Coming off of a tough 2023 season, he's one of the youngest quarterbacks of last year's group. Not ready. Let's sit him. And they did for what, five weeks, whatever it was.

B (10:11)

Right.

A (10:12)

And, and now they threw him in there. And thankfully he had been through enough wars at UNC in just a few years starting, but he had been through enough wars. His talent is undeniable and you see him seemingly progress each and every week. So I think all of the quarterbacks from last year, different ranges of experience but they all had experience and like at least I want to say at least three years.

B (10:34)

Right, Right.

A (10:35)

I, I think the positive byproduct of all this men is hopefully we won't have any more Anthony Richardson's with 13 starts. Hopefully we won't have any more Mitch Trubisky's with 13 starts or Mark Sanchez with their. You know what I mean?

B (10:50)

Yeah. Just play him when they get in the league. Yeah, that's a great idea. It's. That has not proven to be a good model. It's just not. I mean Anthony Richardson is a talented player. He's a hard worker. It just discipline. Didn't play enough football coming out and now, now we're seeing what happens when you try to, you know, the, we'll just play him and then they, then, then you get into a team that doesn't really have the backbone to continue to do that. You know this, the whole thing was that Anthony Richardson was going to play a lot of football and learn on the fly and the next thing you know they're playing Flacco. Stay in school. You can make some money. You play more football. I mean again, it just pays off in the long run to take this approach.

A (11:24)

Yeah. And it's fascinating and we can, I mean, I want to talk One of the things I want to talk to. To Billy about Billy Napier on Thursday is, is this transfer portal. You know, James Franklin, I don't always see eye to eye on certain things, but his quotes, his quotes this week, I mean, they ring true. But we need a. A true governing body. We need a person or a small group of people running this operation. We need leadership in college football because the fact that Beau Prabula was put in a position where he has to get in the portal and transfer now, while your team's about to go make a run in the College Football Playoff, like, what are we doing Right? But Penn State might get it. They probably get in, but I don't know that it's three losses. Whether they got in or not. It wouldn't be with this route that they have, you know, sitting at number six with SMU and Boise State to get into the semifinal, had per Bull and not. Not come in and played as well as he did in the second half when Drew Aller got injured against Wisconsin. So, like, his value for that team, if it was. And he played in certain situations, short yardage, goal line, you know, here and there throughout the season. But if nothing else is value in that game, had he come in and laid an egg or had it been somebody else as the backup and they lost that game, the landscape would have changed for Penn State, you know, and so. So it's not like he's some backup who only played in scrub duty, you know, like five, seven snaps here and there and blowouts. He contributed. And so the fact that now he can't be a part of that team and can't come in in some short yardage and goal line is they're trying to make a run for the College Football Playoff and win a national championship. That's got to be devastating to him. But it's also like it's the right decision given, given the, the situation, the circumstances we have. So change has to occur in college football. I'll be interested to hear what Billy Napier said. But we talked about today is going to be about notebook, draft buzz. Empty the notebook. What we're hearing and putting it in context with the tape study we've done and what we already know. Couple interesting things, and I'll jump off with this. As I mentioned, I want to continue to, to hammer this home. Milro could go back, Nuss Meyer's coming back to lsu. Aller is now coming back to Penn State. Okay. I talked to a person in the league I don't want. I tried my best not to disclose or have any information come back to the people we talked to. Said a very interesting thing to me. Quinn Ewers, he would love to see grad transfer go somewhere else and play another year. Didn't, didn't have the year that we expected. Thought he was going to kind of continue to escalate from that Michigan game. Had the, the, the oblique injury, had the ankle injury. Just has not been 100 himself. And we have, we've talked about that over and over throughout the year. Right. But I thought that was interesting. And so while he made the comments recently that he's going to prepare for the NFL draft and basically he's not coming back to Texas, I do wonder given now the, the portal and, and where we are, what does that look like if he, he's not going to make that decision now? You know what I mean? And you look at, you know, look.

B (14:49)

At his today, he's not going to make that decision is what you're saying.

A (14:52)

Can you imagine the distraction it would be if Quinn said I'm putting my name in the portal but I'm going to play.

B (14:58)

Right.

A (14:58)

So I, I don't even know how the logistics on all of that. But, but to hear that from a high ranking NFL official saying I think it would be in his best, you know, know, his, in his best interest to return to school and go transfer somewhere else, play in a different system, showcase what he can do, hopefully be 100% for a full season next year. That that would only benefit him. And you see if you're watching on YouTube or watching this video, you can see that the Quinn Ewers resume there. You know, 19 and four past two seasons is a starter. The Georgia games have been his, his, his downfall. Has he been 100% this year? Banged up, inconsistent with his velocity. Pocket presence has been an issue at times. Not a running threat like there for as much as we love him and his competitiveness and the wars he's been in and some of the big moments you think about the Alabama games, like some of the big moments he's had, it's been kind of a rocky road. So that's another interesting one. As this College football playoff plays out, what is going to happen with viewers when it all plays out?

B (16:03)

I think there's two things to keep in mind. One is my understanding the portal won't close before the first playoff game. They'll play Clemson so he doesn't have to put his name in before that game. And I don't see it happening. If there's an Upset, it's kind of moot. And he can put his name in. If he decided to do that after that, at that point I do think he would have to put his name in. If they get to the second round before, I mean that would probably become public. My understanding of it. And again, this is all new is my understanding that it would become public if he put his name in before the second round playoff game. That said, I love the idea because look what's happened. I mean, look what Jaden Daniels did after he went from Arizona State to lsu. Now I get it, he's at Texas now. It's not like he's going from an Arizona State team that was kind of a, you know, in, in rough shape and going to an lsu. I get these already at Texas.

A (16:49)

But I mean he's been coached very well. I mean Sark's one of the best out there, no question. Guys that he's produced the NFL coaching, he's had Matt Ryan, etc.

B (16:58)

Like ask me if Kyle McCord regrets going to Syracuse after what happened at Ohio State last year. I mean, look, there's other models for this. Like if you look at McCord and what the year he had with Syracuse when he was at Ohio State and kind of. And like, honestly, you look back at his numbers and you're like, you know, why was this, why do we have to move on from Con McCord? Was he the problem in that, in that situation? You know, like I know they lost to that Michigan team that won the national championship, but you know, he was vilified for that game. Tell me who played better against Michigan in the last two years? Will Howard or, or calm accord. So I look at him and I think he's a real interesting prospect that I really want to dig in on that Syracuse tape more to see how, how high he's going. But he's climbed, I think this year because of that move that he made. So yeah, when I look at yours banged up a little bit this year, you know, why not again go back and play more football, man, and maybe you, even if you're not improving your draft position, it's like you say, and we're going to, I want to hammer this point home time and time again. Put yourself in better position for long term success. So I, I love the idea viewers going back.

A (18:00)

I also had a really interesting conversation with, with a NFL personnel person about Shador and Cam.

B (18:07)

Okay.

A (18:08)

And this person has did a lot of work early on on Chador. Okay. And I remember having a conversation, I want to say a Month, maybe five weeks ago with the same person. And he said, I'm getting ready to go. Do. Do Cam hit me back up after so I can give you. But, but he, but I. I will never forget. He said, I haven't done all this tape. I haven't dug in yet. It's part of, you know, I don't. Again, don't want. I'll get to. I'll get to him as part of our process soon. He said, but I, but I do see there's a very clear difference in terms of the physical tools with Cam, especially the arm strength than Shador. Okay. So. And I got, you know, when you get the sense like he's leaning Cam, he kind of. He likes Cam more than Shador. Right? Like, I absolutely hung up that phone and was like, he's. He's leaning. He's leaning Cam over Shador, right?

B (19:02)

Talk.

A (19:02)

Talk to him in the last 48 hours. And his exact quote was, oh yeah, Shador over Cam. And it's not really even close for me.

B (19:11)

Yeah, I agree.

A (19:13)

Interesting for someone who kind of went into it with a. I don't want to say a bias, but like a lean and then to. To be so, you know, line in the, in the cement with it. Okay. He said, and these are some of the notes. Okay. And pardon me from looking for. Looking down, but I just, I want to make sure I get. Get it's right. Still agrees Cam Ward has the better. Has the better tools than Shador. Okay. But from the neck up, he said, I want to make sure we're clear on this. I think Cam's an okay processor. I think he's. I think he's fine and I think he'll continue to develop. But from the neck up, Shador is a high level processor. Doesn't his. And he. He's like, kept going on. He's like, it doesn't his. He doesn't get mentally sped up. He kept saying, like, it doesn't speed up. He goes. Now sometimes that gets him in trouble because it. Because everything's kind of slow and everything's slow for him because he processes things so quickly. He said now sometimes he gets himself into trouble because he thinks there's. There's more there. And he just has such great instincts that he thinks he can create a bigger play when it's okay to check down. We've talked about all those things, right? He's like, he's like, if I'm being honest, should you kind of average overall tools again, stuff we've talked about average Arm. But it's plenty good enough to, to be successful at the next level. Better athlete in terms of extending pocket presence than he is a runner. Too many chances with the ball at times drifts in the pocket and he, but he kept going back. He's like, but the mental. He goes, my goodness, the mental. His instincts, his processing ability. He's like that's, that's his special sauce. That's what that, what's, that's what makes him the best quarterback in this class. So hammered that he said with Cam and this stuff was interesting. Cam, he thinks he's a better athlete than he really is. Right.

B (21:16)

He's in his head now.

A (21:17)

I love it. He said he's, he's an okay processor. Like, I don't, I don't like, I'm not worried about it. I think with continued development in an NFL system. But he kind of needs, he kept saying he kind of needs to get outside the pocket, you know, like he kind of needs things to break down and to get sloppy for him to get sharpened. Sharpened again. Better, better tools than Shador. But Shador is just a better pocket passer, better accuracy. He's like at the end of the day, if I'm. He said, and they're not one of them. But if I'm a franchise that needs a quarterback and I know that we have to start a guy year one, he goes, I do think Shador is going to be the better long term quarterback. But I do, but I know that Shador is going to be the better quarterback early in his career. And if we're talking about drafting these guys top 10, what are we going to get early on? And let's not put somebody out there who's going to have a lot of struggles early on and it's going to affect their confidence.

B (22:13)

Yeah. Let me ask you this. And I would like to know that person's take as well. But I don't know if you got into this there. If you were saying I love these, these questions. Right. You got one drive to win the game. Right. You're down four, you got a, you need a touchdown. Fourth quarter late, you get the ball. Who do you want as your quarterback? Do you want Cam or, or Shador?

A (22:31)

He was, he was, he was dogged on Shador in that situation.

B (22:34)

I would say the same thing. And there's not many quarterbacks. I would take over Cam because Cam scares me. I do think Cam can make that, that mistake and we've seen this before where he can make a mistake that ends the game Right. But I also think, to quote my good friend Todd McShay, he's got the onions to make plays when he needs to. Right. Like he's got the onions. He's not a guy that's afraid. I, I think that's a strength for Cam. But when you're comparing the two, I still give Sanders the edge there because he's more calculated, more cold blooded. He's. And he's seen those situations, maybe not as on the big stage, but like games, he just doesn't get rattled within game situations, too. We talk about within snaps, within plays. Does he get rattled? Do things speed up also within game situations? You're behind big and it's in the second quarter. Are you going to start pressing and try to, you know, like the coaches will say, you can't get 14 points on one throw, man. Do you start pressing in that sense? I think Cam is more likely to do that than Shador is. Shador is more methodical. We'll dink and duck. We'll score here. We still can find a way back into this game or I don't need to push this ball downfield to get into a position for us to win this game late. I love that about Shador. I love his late game management.

A (23:39)

Yeah. That he, he was dogged about, and I didn't mention it there, but, but in, in clutch situations when you need it. Yeah, he's the, he's the, he's the guy that I trust and, and, and it's not. That wasn't an indictment on Cam. I mean, look at Cam in big moments and the comebacks that he had to, you know, he had to put together Cal.

B (23:59)

Right.

A (23:59)

Virginia Tech. Like you, you're excited about both of them.

B (24:03)

Right.

A (24:03)

And I think if you need like to drill a ball 40 yards down the field and get a special play, it's going to be Cam. But in terms of like consistency over time, you. The processors are the ones that, that will kill you and they'll carve you up. And that's what. And there's something. I mean, yeah, I mean, he's. Shador's an assassin. So I just thought that was fascinating. And especially the, the draft rank or the draft order didn't really change much. We did the flash mock last week and the top four picks did not change. It's still the Giants at one, Raiders at two, Patriots at three. And. And who is it? Four. But anyway, those are the top. Those were the top three. And of the top three, Cleveland was down to six, Tennessee was at Five. But regardless the top. The top two teams need a quarterback. And we had talked about, you know, buzz about the Giants with Cam Ward and all that. I don't know if that's the deal but I also. This is. This part's fascinating. Right. And we have to start putting things together now and there's a lot of time in this process but I have heard multiple times Coach prime does not want Shador going to New York jets.

B (25:22)

Surprises me I guess the the jets doesn't the Giants more so because it's such a big market and we could.

A (25:30)

Be wrong and we'll have Coach Prime. I've said we'll have Coach prime on at some point we can talk to him and I don't know that he'll share the exact organizations but at some point, knowing his, you know, his personality. Personality approach, I think that there's a good chance we'll get some. Some specific teams out of them. Not just us but everyone. But if. How does it play out right. If. If the Giants view this the same as the person I just spoke with and the same really as us. And the same is like a lot of people that I've talked to that Shador is the number one guy.

B (26:08)

Right.

A (26:09)

They're picking it one. They have a quarterback need that is glaring. The Raiders are at two and there's been a lot of ties. Mark Davis, the owner, Tom Brady has Shador spent time last summer. Brady's a minority owner of the Raiders. Brady spent. Spent time with him Shador kind of developing him and coaching him this past summer. There's a relationship there. We've seen stuff on. On. On social media. I mean I, I even saw a video recently of Shador driving by the Raider Stadium and taking a video of it not saying anything like but you know, tea leaves me please. So the Raiders are two and Shador is not going to. To Giants at one. What do you do if you're the Giants? I've said all along you just draft them at one and you try to and you put them up for auction and you try to drive a price up to get to number two and then you draft Cam Ward at two or you go in a different direction but at least you got some compensation for it. That's going to be fascinating.

B (27:08)

Yeah, it scares me. But you like that's our. Those. These are our personalities. By the way, you're comfortable doing that. I'm like I'm much more play it safe. Right? This is who we are. Like let me put you on the spot a little Bit.

A (27:19)

Just.

B (27:19)

Just a little bit. What are you taking? What's your, what's the. For compensation? What are you happy with? Are you like a second, a third? If you get a third out of it to move back one spot, are you like, you know what, we got something? Or you, you know, I kind of already know. I think you're gonna be a little greedier, you know, like, what would your thoughts be in terms of, like, this is going to make us happy as an organization because we always. We wanted the quarterback that we're gonna. Where we knew this quarterback was never going to play for us. We got the second best guy in this draft and we picked up these assets. What are you thinking?

A (27:53)

I think it's second.

B (27:55)

Yeah.

A (27:55)

Trade value chart says that's not crazy.

B (27:57)

Yeah. That's not crazy, right? You're not asking for too much.

A (28:00)

400. 400. And again, this trade value chart is so, you know, dated.

B (28:04)

Yeah.

A (28:04)

You always, when you're drafting that high, you always get more. The trade value is 400. 400 equates to the 50th pick mid, you know, mid second round.

B (28:13)

Right?

A (28:13)

I. I think a second. And it would probably be an early second, obviously. Okay. The. The Raiders then would have an early second, I think A second.

B (28:21)

Okay.

A (28:22)

Yeah.

B (28:23)

Because again, we love Shador, but he's not, he's not in the top three last year. So, I mean, I want to keep that in mind. We're talking about what you're looking for in terms of compensation for. To move that. Because really, you were talking about Pixel rocks. We're really just talking about the asset at that point. We're talking about the player. I mean, you are talking about moving back from one to two, but you're really talking about trading Shador Sanders because you've already taken him. So it's, it's kind of a unique in that way a little bit.

A (28:50)

Yeah.

B (28:50)

I mean, it's because you weren't greedier, by the way. But, you know, knowing you, I'm sorry you didn't want to ask for a little more.

A (28:55)

Here's what. Quite honestly, it would be. It would be a set. It would be a second in like a fifth or a sixth or, or, or next year's first.

B (29:04)

Right? Yeah.

A (29:05)

Yeah. So that's, that's where I would probably start off, but I would have more intelligent people in the building trying to, trying to, you know, coach me up on that. So, again, some conversations. The quarterback class is weaker than, Than it's been. There's. I mean, there's no hiding that there's no no questioning that the defensive line group for everyone I've talked to has gotten better and better as the years gone on and is very interesting. Defensive tackle basically sentiments across the board better than we expected and and edge. The quotes I keep getting are like a lot of these guys different varieties. There's a lot of, you know, so, so that was interesting. Running back everyone you talk to. Best running back class in a decade. Best, you know, deepest running back class I've ever So we're all on the same page. This episode is brought to you by.

B (30:04)

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Your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards. The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. The brand new playoff is here. This year there's 12 teams, which means even more chances to win big on FanDuel. The action starts on December 20th, and right now new customers on FanDuel can get 150 bucks in bonus bets. Just place any $5 bet and you'll get 150 bucks in bonus bets if you win. Use your bets on spreads, live bets, overs, unders and so much more. Just visit FanDuel.com McShay to download America's number one sportsbook. Must be 21 or older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in D.C. first online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help. On the negative side, wide receiver classes is not what it's been. So I kind of want to transition to that, if you will. Okay. It's let's just go back over the last couple of years. Okay. Wide receivers and I and I want to start with just ripping off some names from the last few years. I think this wide receiver group, you can maybe Compare it to 2023 with Smith and Jake Jackson, Smith and Jigba, Quentin Johnston, who took some time to, you know, kind of develop and come into his own. Zay Flowers, Jordan Addison, Jonathan Mingo, Jaden Reed Rashid Rice, Marvin Mims were all first and second rounders in that group. It's turned out to be a better group than we thought at the time. Is that fair to say?

B (32:15)

Yeah, I think that's very fair. Puka was in that class too. He was later on.

A (32:19)

Yeah, later on. Later on. Right, but. But my point in all this is, my goodness, like it has been a feeding ground. College football has been a feeding ground of wide receivers the last several years. And you just like looking at the College Football Playoff. All these teams that like literally you go down the list, it's like Ohio State's got them loaded. Oregon got him loaded. But other than that, like what's the personnel weakness with all these? Clemson's gotten better. Wesco as a freshman stepped up. They've had a couple guys step up. Texas has got a lot of depth, but not the single dude. And Isaiah Bond has been a in major disappointment, especially recently. But the rest of these teams, it's like, ah, Tennessee, if they just had a great number one. Arizona State, they lost, they lost. Tyson, their number one guy. But. And don't have any receiver. Great talent beyond that, Georgia, huge hole at wide receiver. Boise State, Indiana, good receivers, you know, lines up with their personnel. Notre Dame, what's the biggest glaring weakness? Don't have perimeter talent. Penn State, glaring weakness, don't have perimeter talent. So you see it in the College Football Playoff and you see it in the NFL draft class. I just look at it like I want. Just listen to these names. Okay. The last four years, Marvin Harrison, Malik Neighbors, Romo Dunes, Brian Thomas, Xavier Worthy, Ricky Pearsall, Xavier Leggette. I had all beyond that. Lad McConkey, Keon Coleman, Ricky Pearsall. I had all of them last year. Men in my top 37 overall. 10 guys in my top 37 overall. Go back to. I already mentioned 2023 with Jackson, Smith and Jigma Zay Flowers, Jaden Reed, all those guys. Rasheed Rice you mentioned Puka Nukua. 2021. I guess I missed 2022. 2022 was loaded. 2021. I guess it is, yeah. Jamar Chase, Jade, Jalen Waddle, Devonte Smith, Kadarius. Tony's been a bust, but Rashad Bateman, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, like really talented group the year before. Henry Ruggs, obviously horrible situation off the field, but unbelievably talented. Jerry Judy, come on. Recently CD Lamb star. Jalen Rager, Justin Jefferson star. Brandon Iuk star. Like Michael Pittman, Stud. T. Higgins Stud. It's wild all these wide Receivers that have come into the league from college football the last five years. This year's group is different. I want to start with this Travis Hunter. We've got as a wide receiver and as a cornerback. He's a different animal, and we can get to Travis in a minute. But Tetaroa McMillan from Arizona and Luther Burden the third from Missouri are widely considered the top two receivers in the class. I look at last year's group, and let's just do with the wide receiver classes we've done with. With the quarterback class a lot, and let's kind of mesh them in.

B (35:27)

Okay.

A (35:27)

Where do. Where do these guys go? And I've got a lot of notes on these receivers, and we'll get to who they are. But where do these guys fit in with last year's group? Not ahead of Malik Neighbors, who I had as a number one receiver, just slightly ahead of Harrison. I had a number three in the class overall was Malik Neighbors. Number four in the class overall in terms of my ranking was Marvin Harrison Jr. Number eight in the class overall was Roma Dunze. Number 19 was Brian Thomas Jr. And he's been sensational.

B (35:55)

Sensational, right? Yeah, he's been awesome.

A (35:59)

And then A.D. mitchell, Xavier Leggett, lad McConkey, like, phenomenal this year. Keon Coleman and Ricky Pearsall. So where's the jumping off point with McMillan and Burden as the two pure wide receivers in this class? When you have neighbors? Harrison odunze, Brian Thomas Jr. For you.

B (36:21)

After them. After them. I mean, let me. Can I tell you. Can I just tell you what's the most interesting thing about me? Because I'm hearing you and I'm going to answer your question, but this is what's burning in my mind right now.

A (36:31)

Go.

B (36:31)

Because it's most fascinating to me is where do you have Travis Hunter versus Malik Neighbors? That, to me, is the, like, the most interesting question about this class because I think I have neighbors ahead of Hunter. I think he's. He would be the third receiver taken. Yes. So you do, too.

A (36:49)

That's a great question. I'm glad you asked. Yes. If he's old, if he's only playing wide receiver.

B (36:55)

Yeah.

A (36:55)

Travis Hunter is the third receiver in last year's class.

B (36:58)

Okay, so we agree. I totally agree.

A (37:00)

I don't know that everyone else would, but we. I think we. I mean, we just said we agree on that.

B (37:05)

Yeah, we're on the same page there. Okay. So for the other two, I like McMillan way more than Burton, by the way. I have. Burton is like. I think my Fifth receiver. I have Trey Harris ahead of him. I'm low on Burton. I was low on Burton coming into the year, but I think for any of these receivers outside of Hunter, I mean, man, you can keep going. I mean, I'm not taking them ahead of the top three. I'm not taking them ahead of the top four. And Brian Thomas went 23rd overall. Xavier Worthy, I wasn't as high on last year. I thought he was inconsistent with his hands. He's had a nice year. He's not. I mean, I don't know if you could really say that he was worth the. The 28th pick, but he's had a nice year. I mean, he's run the ball pretty well.

A (37:43)

He's.

B (37:43)

I think he's got about. Around 500 yards receiving. He's had a decent year. Um, I'm not sure I'm drafting any of these guys ahead of Worthy. So, look, I don't know. Ricky Pierce, all I felt like I was low on after watching him more last year, and his situation this year has been tough, so it's kind of hard to evaluate where he is. But, like, it's just. Again, there's just no comparing. I love lad McConkey. I loved Keon Coleman. Like those guys, if they're in this class, all of those guys are potentially the number two receiver. They're in the conversation. Maybe you take. I like McMillan maybe more than a lot of other people. I think you could probably talk about McMillan in that worthy Piersol range, but I think you're. There's a debate. I don't know if you're like, no, McMillan's definitely ahead of Worthy or definitely out of Pierce.

A (38:34)

All the conversation for me is after Brian Thomas Jr. Yeah, that's when you have a debate and remember Brian Thomas Jr. Like, it's. It's hard, and we have to go back to how we evaluated. I had him 19 overall in a really good class last year with a bunch of quarterbacks, don't forget. So, like a 19 overall in that class was. Was the top 10 in this class. Okay.

B (38:57)

Right.

A (38:58)

I don't have either of the wide receivers from this class in the top 10. But I. But I recognize because I. I don't travel a lot anymore. I'm not out doing games during this. Like, I. I read more. I don't factor it into anything I do, but I see, like, everyone. It seems like everyone has them, like, top.

B (39:14)

I don't know anywhere. But yeah.

A (39:18)

So with that said, but to me, neighbors Harrison Jr. Roma Dunze and Brian Thomas Jr. Would all be the jump, all be ahead of McMillan and Burton in this class.

B (39:32)

I agree.

A (39:33)

All right.

B (39:34)

But maybe it may be more than that. That's. That's all I'm saying. It may be farther down than that. And I don't think Burden. Listen, I'm just, I'm just not as high on Burden. I think he's a good player. I mean, again, keep it in perspective. I think he's a day two wide receiver. I just don't think he's a first round guy.

A (39:48)

I want to get into some notes on, on these guys. Okay. I will say, and I'm glad you brought Travis Hunter up because that's a fascinating conversation. The more people I talk to in the league. We had a really, a really good conversation a couple weeks back when we, we broke down Travis Hunter. You handled him as a corner and I did. As a wide receiver.

B (40:11)

Correct.

A (40:12)

And evaluated him separately as prospects. We both said that we thought he was a little bit more advanced. Surprising. You know, it was, it was surprising at wide receiver. And we both agreed that there's more value at wide receiver in today's game. The more conversation. And I think it will be team driven and what they, what they need. I talked about the Patriots, like you already drafted Christian Gonzalez. He's playing at one cornerback spot. Maybe you use. If you draft Travis Hunter. He's. He's a wide receiver weapon for a young quarterback that desperately needs weapons. And you utilize him in a limited role as like a slot corner. Pardon me. I'm. I'm battling through being sick. I said to you yesterday. Yeah, I'm fighting. So I apologize for an occasional sniffle. I'm. I'm starting. I said this to you yesterday. I'm starting to think that kids should all go to boarding school.

B (41:03)

I wasn't sure you're gonna go public with that one.

A (41:05)

I'm joking. I obviously would never even consider it, but my goodness, the petri dishes that they are coming home from school, they're.

B (41:12)

Like.

A (41:14)

But Travis Hunter, let's get back to. Let's not digress. Travis Hunter. The more people I've talked to in the league and, and we also had this conversation. If you want to play them on both sides and you want to get that value, it's got to be cornerback first. A limited package at wide receiver. I think to bring him in and play him full time wide receiver and just kind of throw him out at cornerback early in his career is a disservice to him. And, and I don't know that that would work as well. So, interestingly enough, in the conversations I've had in the last couple weeks, more teams, not all, but more teams, are leaning towards Travis Hunter as a cornerback that plays as a. As a receiver.

B (41:58)

Interesting. If I'm his agent, I'm telling him, we're playing wide receiver, man, and we're going to focus on wide receiver because I think it gives you. Or I'm, you know, I'm not telling him what to do, but I would say I think you should play wide receiver because it gives you the best chance to extend your career and just focus on wide receiver. That's. It gives you the best chance to extend your career. I know. Listen, hear me out. Gives you the best chance to extend your career and then make the most money. Now, I think the conversation switches to, he says, I want to do. I want play both ends. And then you say, look, man, he's. Look, he's just the kind of human being. These are rare people on this planet. They do things that no one else can do. And if he says to me, I'm going to play both ends, I'm like, you know what, man? If there's anyone who's going to prove me wrong about this, it's going to be you. Go ahead. But if you're looking at it from a strictly a business standpoint, I'm telling him to focus on wide receiver. Now, does it hurt his value? Maybe a little bit. He's still going to go early first round in this class, I'm telling you.

A (42:54)

Well, if I'm. If I'm his agent, it's. It's. It's two different conversations. It's publicly, I'm playing both, but I'm a thoroughbred. I'm. I'm like. I'm somebody you've never seen before, and I'm going to be the first to do it. I'm playing both. And that's the. My entire message. Hopefully we'll get Travis on. We talked about maybe hopefully getting him on at some point this week. It's been busy. Won the Heisman.

B (43:19)

Congratulations. Got a couple things going on.

A (43:21)

One of the most authentic speeches I've ever seen that. I mean, it was awesome.

B (43:25)

My kid called me about it. Yeah.

A (43:26)

But hopefully we'll. Hopefully we'll get him on in the next couple weeks. And I don't want to. This is not. Again. We're not a lot of coaches interviews, not a lot of player interviews, but to hit. To me, he's just so unique. But I'm guessing that his. He will be coached, too. And here's the thing. I don't think there's any coaching that has to go on. I think Travis Hunter absolutely believes and knows in the bottom of his heart he is going to play cornerback and wide receiver in the NFL and that if you're drafting me, you better understand I'm doing both. Part of my value, part of my greatness is the fact that I can do both. And nobody, nobody has ever done it. We talked about Champ Bailey. He had like eight catches in his career. I have those numbers somewhere here. Somewhere. Deion Sanders. Deion Sanders had like 40 catches or something throughout his NFL career. We went down all the guys who have tried to do it, and it's like two catches. 6. Chuck Woodson, Charles Woodson. I think he had two catches in his entire NFL career. I'm different. That's my messaging. I'm different than those guys. I'm the first to ever do it this way. So I truly believe, and I'll be fascinated to talk to him as we get closer to the draft. I truly believe that's going to be his messaging now to NFL teams. And he's probably not going to interview with a ton of them. He's, you know, they, they, they're going to have their own unique plan. Shador and Travis to NFL teams. Yeah, let's get in the nitty gritty here. How would you. And it might be part of what, what decides where. Where Coach prime and, and Travis think is the best spot. It's almost like recruiting. Like, yeah, we'll, we'll play it wide receiver. But when you come in here, we're gonna, we're gonna move you to cornerback Nick Saban style. You know what I mean? So I think those conversations will be interesting and may factor into the, the wish list, if you will, but absolutely, the, the messaging. I'll be shocked if it's anything other than I'm doing both. And you know what? I might return punts, too. Go ahead. Stop me.

B (45:32)

Stop me.

A (45:33)

Right?

B (45:34)

He can do it. I mean, he can do it. And, and he's 100% right that he is the only one to do it so far. And I am playing it safe. But as I, man, I think it's the best way to make the most money because I don't think it's going to be interesting to. How he sets the market. How does a player like him set the market? And I think there's going to be a lot of pushback from NFL owners to put, you know, it's one thing For Ohtani to get the kind of money he gets in the MLB because of their salary structures, it's going to be tougher to value, like to spend that much player with that kind of a hard cap. So I'm interested to see what he sets the market with. And I, you know, there's no reason to believe he won't be super successful. Let's say he goes through his first five years and he has. He's everything that we think he's going to be that second contract. I can't wait to have that conversation with you, man. What's that number going to look like? And how do you. How do you, you know, like, what's the. What do you value a player there? And I know we're getting way ahead of ourselves, but this is how my mind works and I just, I'm excited to see what that looks like and what kind of conversation we'll be having then.

A (46:35)

All right, so Travis is a unicorn and we'll talk about him in his corner receiver, maybe punt returner and all the different things, but pure wide receivers. We talked about it. Tedro and McMillan and Luther Burden III. Let's start with those guys. Here are some notes that I've gotten on on those two guys. Okay.

B (46:52)

Okay.

A (46:52)

McMillan, 6, 5, 2, 12. I said to one personnel person, I think best case, everything works out perfectly. Best case, I would go with a Drake London comp.

B (47:07)

Huh?

A (47:08)

Six, five, two.

B (47:11)

I get that I don't hate that.

A (47:13)

Athletic after the catch. Not, not for the massive guy. Not as he's great uncontested. But I don't think as good as Drake. I mean, Drake was phenomenal. The basketball background, the. Maybe the best I've ever liked among the best. Not the best among. Like when I, when you think contested catches, who are the guys coming out of the draft, I'm like, Drake's one of them. Right? But also the yards after catch with at that size looks more fluid and more. More dangerous after the catch the ball skills. Cortland Sutton is another name that came up as like best case scenario.

B (47:47)

Right? Okay, I like that one.

A (47:50)

But here's some of the notes if you're. Because more often than not talking to people in the league and it hasn't been like, it's not 20 guys, it's just a few. There were more questions than like definitive, like, this is my guy. Like, I love him. You know, the questions were the route tree. It's not there as a. In terms of the route tree. One quote I got jogs a lot huh? Yeah. And. And route tempo. Question mark is the note I put down full route tree. No, that's another quote. Like full rotary. No, he's not. Just not there.

B (48:26)

Just a. No.

A (48:28)

Yeah. Can he win outs? This was interesting. Can he win on the outside enough? He said if you really study their tape, there's a lot of motions. There's a lot of helping them get off the line. Can he win if you're just plugging him outside receiver as the X6, 5, 2 12, he should just be your ex, right?

B (48:45)

Yeah.

A (48:46)

Can he win on his own enough on the outside? Just planted there. I thought that was interesting. Again, not everything I'm saying.

B (48:54)

Yeah, These.

A (48:55)

These are things that I'm getting from guys that have spent the last four months digging into these players. Can't live on the 50. 50. I think he's good uncontested. Yeah, no, he. Sorry, this is where I need to make sure I read my notes properly.

B (49:08)

Right.

A (49:10)

He's good uncontested is what he was saying. But you can't live on 50, 50 balls in the NFL. You go. So if he doesn't develop as a route runner and become more consistent with his tempo of routes and his getting off the line of script, he said he could drop his hips. He's like, he can get in and out of his brakes. I'm not worried about that part. But refining his route running skills, understanding what's expected of him getting off the line of scrimmage against. Against press corners on the outside in the NFL, if he doesn't improve in that area, those areas, he's going to have to rely on 50, 50 balls, like too high of a percentage of time. And you can't live on that in the NFL, is what this guy was saying. And he said all day long he would take Drake if we're back in the draft and had both of them available all day long, he would take Drake over McMillan.

B (49:57)

Wow. Yeah. I'm not seeing. I don't see it the same way. It's good to hear that. This is what's great when you hear stuff like that, is it's time to go back and look. You don't want to be overly influenced by what you're hearing from what you don't want to be overly influenced by what you hear from these people. But it's also a good reminder of like, hey, man, some people aren't seeing it the same way that you are. Maybe you should go back. Because I think he could win on the outside. I know what he's Saying it's, it's true what they do with him, but I think he can't win on the outside. I think he can get off press. I think he can win deep. Wow. I mean, I'm low on this receiver class, but. Wow. That is a, that's not.

A (50:33)

But, But I just want to perfect. He still likes him a lot, so he knows, he knows he's. I know, but you gotta also got to remember who we're talking to. They're not all angry, miserable, but like they've been on the road for four months away from their family, staying it like, you know. Yeah. They're tired of hearing guys. Yeah. Like, you know, the, it's not the most comfortable bed, not, not the not luxurious rental cars. Like it's been a grind. So there's a little bit of like, you know, Luther Burden. Let's transition to him. Most people have him as the number two receiver. What is he, 511 and change?

B (51:11)

He would be the number three receiver, I think because of Hunter or. No, now you kind of are in a corner. I'll look up his height right now.

A (51:18)

He'S undersized right around just over £200.

B (51:22)

511, 205 is what I got.

A (51:24)

Yep. 208 is what I had. Production not there in a terrible Missouri pass game this year is. We all can agree on that. Not great when the ball's in the air. That's the difference between he and some of these other guys. Not great when the ball's in the air. Contested catches, just not his thing as much. Struggles adjusting sometimes, but phenomenal athlete. It shows up on tape, but it doesn't show up in production this year. But his body control some of the, like the slot fade stuff that he does. His ability to kind of to maneuver, get in position after the catch. Dangerous kind of for the, the McShay.

B (52:08)

All satellite team, maybe. I think. Yeah, he's a candidate. Yeah.

A (52:12)

Yeah.

B (52:12)

He's a guy you want to get in space.

A (52:14)

Absolutely. So diff. Very different receivers. You're talking about a guy who's explosive, can create after the catch. Gonna kind of have to manufacture some things versus McMillan. Contested balls, unbelievable. Highlight reel 6 5, 212 frame. Just very, very different receivers.

B (52:33)

Yeah, I agree. I, I, it's interesting to see this is kind of a preference thing. I don't value the undersized slot receivers as much as I do the bigger guys on the outside because I just. You when you look at today's game like you're gonna work Justin Jefferson into the slot in Certain situations you're going to take that number two receiver and kind of kick him in. That's the thing with Burden for me is how much is he going to win on the outside in the NFL. And I think a lot of the same things you were saying about McMillan apply to him in terms of the way they move him around, the way they motion him, the way they help him. And look, let's give him some credit. The catch he had that almost beat South Carolina against the slot and he made this over the shoulder, one handed left hand grab. That's amazing. That was a great play and an example of something he can do. But that's not something he's going to be consistently doing against NFL competition. I don't think so. Yeah, I was a little lower on board Burden coming in. I haven't seen enough this year to make me feel any different. And last year his numbers were awesome by the way. I mean this year it's like 600 yards. Last year was, 200 yards. He had a much better year last year and people should probably keep that in mind. But again, this is. These are not the guys where I'm like I'm super excited if my team drafts this player in the first round.

A (53:46)

Yeah, yeah, I, I totally agree. I going beyond just those receivers. Some other interesting notes. Amica Abuka, Ohio State. Interesting. And I felt the same way. He, one of the guys I talked to was like did you like his tape last year? I was like, not really. He's like, he goes. Because coming into the year I really didn't. He goes but he's grown on me. And I think that's kind of the sentiment across like I wouldn't say anything about him physically is elite or special, but it, when you combine the whole package of work, the body of work, then you get excited. The one thing that one of these, the people I spoke to was I just know he's not going to fail.

B (54:32)

Right.

A (54:33)

Highest floor, those are some of the things. Highest floor of all these receivers love those players routes are phenomenal. Maybe the best route runner in this class. Ball skills, phenomenal reliability for his quarterback. Everything that you look for most efficient. Maybe the, the most well coached in terms. Obviously Brian Hartline does a phenomenal job there. There's no denying that. But he's what he's absorbed from that. You know, just because you're there playing under him doesn't mean you're, you're absorbing it. He thinks he, he goes in the league is probably the most well coached receiver in this Class also mentioned great blocker for. You know, for what it's worth care for what it's worth. Great blocker. Michigan State tape was. Was one thing that they. That that was pointed out by. By one of the guys I talked to two other. Two other brackets here of notes. Saveon Williams is a player to keep an eye on. A lot of mixed opinions. TCU wide receiver. Never been like phenomenal talent. I'm sorry Never been phenomenal production but phenomenal talent. He was on the. On Feldman's freak list.

B (55:44)

Okay.

A (55:45)

Six, three, 228 pounds. Everyone I've talked to, there are differing opinions on what he's going to be in the league where he is right now and all that. But Savion Williams from tcu, everyone agrees he's going to be a. Wherever you have him right now. He's going to be a riser throughout this process. Some people. One person I talked to said I. Cordero Patterson. Ah could be that. And the reason I think we all are looking for that. That comp. The other one. I. I just, I just spoke to someone this morning. They're like, yeah, I know. I hear you. I understand why someone would say that. I've got. I've got Leviska Chenault 2.0.

B (56:27)

Okay.

A (56:28)

Not like, not that impressed.

B (56:30)

Worried.

A (56:32)

Okay. But. But the reason we say this is high school quarterback apparently could throw like 75, 80 yards in the air. Like just, just one of those naturally gift like God only makes a handful of these types of people in the world. Right?

B (56:44)

Right.

A (56:45)

Has played wildcat quarterback, pure running back, slot receiver, outside receiver. Like does. Can do a little bit of all of that. Really good effective running the ball. 6, 3, 2, 8. Apparently like 106 broad jump, 42 inch vertical. Just unbelievable natural tools. Accepted the invite to the Senior Bowl. That'll be fun to watch him that week there. But he's a player with very mixed opinions but could be kind of skyrocketing as we get closer to the draft. The other receivers that I talked to talked to one guy this morning about Oregon. Very interesting conversation. Tez is so explosive. Love. I love Tez Johnson's tape. Just, I mean I think he's the best receiver on that team.

B (57:39)

I think he's the most value coming here, man.

A (57:41)

Oh, there's a buck coming.

B (57:42)

Damn it.

A (57:43)

But is it the quote from one guy? Like, I. I hate smaller receivers. I just can't get on. I can't get on board. And he made a good point. He said go through. He goes any given year, go through, go through. The list of wide receivers that are top 10 in receiving, top 10 receiving yards, top 10 yards.

B (58:00)

Like, he's 100% right.

A (58:02)

I can't. He's like, I can't. He goes, I, I. He goes, I can love Tez Johnson. I can be unbelievably excited about what he does and see all the flashes that everybody else sees, but at the same time, I'm allowed to just. I, he's not my guy.

B (58:19)

He's not wrong.

A (58:20)

And it's not anything towards Tez. It's just historically, I'm not going to gamble on that guy. Interesting. I thought that was fascinating. He's. He's like, I would take him fourth round. I could see him going, third. He goes, you want to know fourth round? Wow. I know, I know, I know.

B (58:36)

I love this stuff.

A (58:37)

I know, I know. And then he goes. He goes, but. But the dude on that team goes, it hasn't shown up every week, and there's inconsistency. He's like, but, but Evan Stewart is nice, is the quote I got.

B (58:52)

Really?

A (58:52)

Evan Stewart is like, my goodness, he's. He's got skills. That's what he's like. He's like, oh, like his. He is so talented. He said second round for, for Evan Stewart, third, fourth for Tez Johnson. He goes, you want to know why Evan Stewart's not going to be in the first outside of the production? And this is like, take it for what it's worth. We're not here. But he's like, he's like, he's a good kid. He's a good kid. He goes, I'm not worried about him. Like, he's not a bad guy, bad kid, anything like that. He's a good kid. I like him. He goes, but he's still a kid. Got some maturing to do. He's like, he's like, I'm not that old. He's like, I got a lot of older, older guys in the building know, besides me. He goes, but this is. This is truly a Gen Z. This is an nil, you know, entitlement, all that stuff. And he's like, he goes. And I don't want you to, like, say just, this is specific to Evan Stewart. Like, there's more of these than. Than there are not in terms of scouting these days. So it's just about, do we have the right people in place, the right leadership in place is like, do we have a wide receiver coach who's going to get the most of them? He goes, but it was just interesting because Like, Tez has been on a tear. Tez was phenomenal against Penn State. Tez is so explosive. Right? But he was like, no, Evan. Evan Stewart's the guy I want to.

B (60:12)

I want to push back. This reminds me so many conversations I've had with you where I start yelling at you and you're like, dude, this is all. This is what I'm being told. This is not what I'm saying to you. But I mean, Evan Stewart's 6 foot, 175. I mean, he's not this huge target. I mean, he's a thinner, leaner guy who's 2 inches taller than Tez. Give me Tez. And again, I get it, though. I do. I. I've had this. You know, when Elijah Moore came out, I loved Elijah Moore's tape, man. Best hands of maybe a slot receiver I've ever seen. And I worked out. Yeah. And that's the thing people kept saying, he's a first round pick. He's a. I was like a slot receiver as a first round pick, man. Same thing with Burton, by the way. Do you think Burden's playing on the outside in the NFL? I think he's a slot, so I get the argument. I just love Tez so much that I want him to be the. The outlier. You know what I mean?

A (61:00)

Totally. I mean, Jordan Addison was undersized. Jay Flowers under.

B (61:05)

Tyreek's not that big, right?

A (61:08)

No, he's not that big, but they're all kind of built like lad. McConkey's built.

B (61:13)

Yeah, he's not that big.

A (61:14)

He's. But he's built. I think it was more about like the lanky lean and there's always. But you look at.

B (61:20)

He's been hurt this year, how great.

A (61:22)

Is Xavier gonna be for a first round pick? Lanky, lean, pushed around, contested. Can he stay healthy all. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's more the discussion than it is about, like, shorter frame, like, you know what I mean?

B (61:35)

I agree.

A (61:36)

Elijah Moore, as you mentioned. Yeah, it's just, it's interesting. I. I always find these conversations to be fascinating. There's like, think about all the different perspectives and, and side notes, you know, from. From the defensive line class, talking about how, like defensive tackles a lot better than you expected. The edge guys, the depth there a whole, like a bunch of different guys. That's where this class is loaded. The running back class is loaded. The wide receiver class is not what it's been. But there's still, you know, still guys to be had in the Excuse me. In the second, third, fourth round, I.

B (62:10)

Give you a day three under the radar guy for the receivers, please. Colorado State's Tori Horton, who had a knee injury this year and kind of like, I think he's kind of disappeared a little bit because of that previous two years, over a thousand yards receiving. He's at a point, a punt return touchdown in each of the last three years. So each year of the last three years, he had a punt return touchdown. He's lanky, he's lean, but he's got a big frame. I like the way he catches the ball. I like his understanding as a route runner. He's not an explosive outrunner, but he kind of knows how to get open and. And settle and all those things. Great, great ball skills to me, someone you know, we'll see if he's healthy enough to run. Because that's the thing. I. I don't think he's going to run well. And that time will be a big deal for him. So if he's not able to run, team's gonna have to start making decisions about that. But I keep thinking about Keon Coleman last year, and I'm not saying Tory Horton's Keon Coleman. What was fascinating to me is if you remember, Keon Coleman didn't run well. Right. He was in the low four sixes. But remember his. His. Now the combine, they do the gauntlet times.

A (63:12)

Yeah.

B (63:13)

And he had the fastest gauntlet at the combine. I want to see those times. I'm more into the gym for those.

A (63:18)

Listening or watching it. It's. The gauntlet is when you're. It's when you're catching the ball. Right. Back, forth, back and forth.

B (63:26)

Right.

A (63:27)

That's what you're referencing.

B (63:28)

You see, guys get tagged in the face when they don't know what's coming.

A (63:30)

Yeah. Some guys kind of jog through. Don't go full speed, Right? Yeah. Drift. Drift in and out the line. Yeah.

B (63:36)

Which affects your time. And Keon Coleman. Crazy crush. That drill.

A (63:39)

It shows body control and how. And I always talk about speed. Is it. Is it easy speed or is it a struggle to get to that speed?

B (63:47)

Right.

A (63:47)

You know, like, we've all been running fast. We're like, everything's blurry. Right. Some guys don't have that same blur as the average man. Like, like you and I probably do, where, like, you're running too fast, your head's bobbing, and, you know.

B (63:57)

Right.

A (63:58)

Some guys just have really easy speed and. And Keon was one of those guys.

B (64:02)

I wonder just, you know, kind of that, that deal. The 40 times are always going to be important. But I like these, like, I want to see the gym nagy times at the Senior bowl when these guys are.

A (64:10)

Probably practice miles per hour.

B (64:11)

Yeah, that stuff is a big deal now, I think in the gauntlet times and when they're actually doing a football activity. How fast is this guy moving? So that's something that could be interesting for him if he's able to do any of those things. But again, he is coming off knee injury so that might not happen for him.

A (64:25)

Yeah, Cooper cup was one of the all time examples at the Senior Bowl. Like, yeah, he ran a 4, 6, 2, was it 465? Somewhere in that range.

B (64:32)

Right.

A (64:33)

Maybe 4, 6, 8. It was, it wasn't good. I remember being like, that's what everyone, everyone told us. But at the Senior bowl his speed was like, no, I didn't have a question. Running routes, getting in and out, the efficiency, all that. All right, so running back, we talked about it. Everyone agrees, like 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, like one of the deepest groups ever. And everyone agreed. Okay, I want to spin this forward to the College Football Playoff. And to me it's like it's one of those storylines that no one really cares about. But I kind of do. Like, if, if there's one thing, it's not the great quarterback play necessarily. We're not going in the College Football Playoff talking about like four first round quarterbacks, you know, just battling it out. It's like Caleb's in and Jaden's in and Drake May's in and Bo Nix is in. It's not that deal. Michael Penix is in. Like, it's not that deal. Like it would have been potentially a year ago. But what it is, it has a chance to be an absolute showcase of these running backs. And I feel like, because I mean, Ashton Genti's gotten all the, all the attention when we're talking about running backs in college football. Colorado with Shador and, and, and Travis Hunter, a lot of attention. The quarterbacks always get a lot of attention, but it's not the group that we're used to having. I feel like from a personnel standpoint, the running backs have not. Like, it has not been a consistent theme. It has been a bigger theme in the NFL this year. And I think college football in the playoff, we're going to see a lot of star running backs. Now that we're condensed, right? Four games the first week. You're talking about Tennessee, you're talking about Ohio State, three Running backs that are going to be drafted in the first three rounds with Travion Henderson, Quinshawn Judkins, and. And Sampson. Right. Dylan Sampson. You go to, you know, Texas. We'll go through the list. My point is, for whatever it's worth, I'm fascinated to see, like, in a. In an era of football, college and NFL and even high school, where it's all about the quarterback and the receiver and all of that, I'm fascinated to see these running backs take off. I do want to mention, from one scout, two guys he named and four really, he mentioned. He's like. He goes, the thing with this class, I think this was intriguing. He's like, you got to figure out who your guy is. He's like, we. We. We don't. We've never lived in a world where you have pick and choose from 35 running backs that legitimately are going to get gradable or draft grades, draftable grades. We just. We've never lived in that world. It's been a long, long time since we've been any. Anywhere close to this. So you've got to pick who your guys are, and it's not by round. You know, we'll stack the board later. But who are your guys? He's like, obviously, Ashton Jinty is cut above everybody, he said. But for me, when you start talking about value and fitting what we want to do and guys that I like, I'm going to plant the flag for. There are four guys that I really like, and they'll be in different ranges of the draft. He said, Jordan James from Oregon, Cam Scatterboo, Arizona State, and we'll see both of those guys in the playoff. Two other guys I wanted to get to real quickly before we go through the rankings of the running backs in the playoff. Harvey from Central Florida, RJ Harvey, right. Said he has a third. Third. He goes. I think he's. Third round. I'm comfortable. Take him in the third round. Really likes him, huh? And then another guy he said, I love and I. I'd love to be able to steal him in the fourth round. Damien Martinez from Miami.

B (68:18)

Yeah, I love him, too.

A (68:19)

Yeah, I just thought that was interesting. So those are four running, but he's like. He's like, we all recognize that you can go down the list, and there are a whole bunch of guys and they can, but figure out who your guys are. And he goes, my guys, beyond, beyond Genti, in terms of where I think we can get them, are Jordan James, Oregon Scaboo, Arizona State, RJ Harvey, UCF and Damen Martinez. Miami just thought that was interesting. Let's throw up this graphic. This is when I talk about running backs and loaded. And this is going to be the story whether it's. It, you know, comes out on broadcast or not. But when we look back at this College Football Playoff, it will be which quarterback steps up, undeniably, it will be about which defensive line was, was there in the fourth quarter to shut things down. But I think throughout this College Football Playoff, when we talk about the first, second, third and fourth round of this College Football Playoff, the consistent theme will be these running backs. 11 College Football Playoff running backs with grades in the top five. Mensch. 11. That's 11 out of 12 teams. That's wild.

B (69:25)

Yeah.

A (69:25)

And the. And they're 11 of the top 22 running backs in this loaded class. Okay, now don't forget too, this does not include Jeremiah Love, who I think is going to be an early round draft pick out of Notre Dame a year from now. He's a sophomore. And also Quintrevian Wisner, who I, I don't put him in the same category as Love, but he's had a lot of success. Also a sophomore at Texas. Okay. And there's Justice Ellison, who's going to be probably a late round pick from Indiana. There's some other later round guys, but these guys are all in the top 22 running backs in this class. Ginty, obviously is going to be a top 10 pick, I believe, worst case, top 15. And he'll only fall because there's not a need. I didn't up. Did I not upgrade this with my. I guess I apparently. Oh, no, that's right. I'm going through my running back list. I'm like, wait, where's Caleb? Yeah, where's Caleb Johnson? Yeah, he's not playing in the College Football Playoff. Quinton. Jud. Kids, I've got 66 overall from Ohio State. Jordan James, we just talked about him. 81 Overall From, From Oregon Scaboo. The, the entire team basically, of Arizona State. They're riding him into the, into the College Football Playoff. Nicholas Singleton, I think because of his versatility, because he's, he's got some explosiveness, I think he could be a top 100 pick. Trayvon Henderson from Ohio State. Trevor Etn from Georgia. Dylan Sampson. I, I think this might be too low on Dylan Sampson. We'll see how it all plays out. But Dylan Sampson is going to be one of those guys. Tyson Lawton, I've told you, I just, I like his Juice and the energy he brings. I think he's gonna be a surprise as a Day 3 pick in the NFL Draft. Rashard Smith, versatility, former wide receiver. Explosive. Catches the ball like a slot receiver. And then Phil Mafa has not had a huge year this year, but he, he's a grinder. When you see that list, what jumps out at you? And, and do you think are. Are you off on anything significantly in terms of rankings?

B (71:22)

I'm such a contrarian. You know, that's where like right away I'm like, all right, where is he wrong? I want to move this guy above this guy. And I will say that I love Singleton. The more I watch Singleton, the more I keep thinking how dangerous he is. I love Dylan Sampson. Like you are just angry. Everything's so mad. Just a. A good player.

A (71:40)

So I don't really stop down mens. Yeah, your Internet froze. Just start back up with. Just start back up with. I will say. Was it. I will say I love Singleton or something like that.

B (71:55)

Yeah.

A (71:56)

Or I will say. Just say. I will say.

B (71:58)

Okay. I will say that the more I watch Singleton, the more I like him. And the word that keeps coming to mind for me was dangerous. I mean, he's got that speed that he can break away. Also like his feet between the tackles. Really good sifting through traffic. Dylan Sampson is. Everything's mad, everything's angry. So hard to tackle. But look, all these guys, you could start moving them around and then you'd be like, oh, then you start realizing, well, maybe I want scatter. Boo.

A (72:19)

Higher.

B (72:19)

Maybe. What's going to be super important in this class is that pre draft evaluation process. How do these guys run? How did the interview, how's the medical? All of that's going to be stuff that's going to help us separate because again, and this is not even including the backstage again, the Caleb Johnson's, the Amari and Hampton from North Carolina. These guys aren't even in this group because if they're not in the playoff, it's going to be picking like the scout said or the front office guy who you talked to said, picking the guys that you like having those debates. But I mean, I love them all. I want them all. That's. That's kind of how I look at that list is like, I want them all.

A (72:54)

I think the most important thing when you're a value. I remember having this conversation with Chris Spielman. We worked together for like four years, traveled, like he's like extended family to me. I love Chris. He always said like the Way I evaluate running backs when I. When I watch them is who are the guys that are going to be obviously a pain in the ass to me as a linebacker. Excuse me, but who can create yards on their own? Like, who's going to basically run through me? Who am I fearful is going to run through me or is going to embarrass me in a little bit of space and not like, not in the open field. I'm talking about, like, little, like small spaces.

B (73:32)

Right.

A (73:32)

And so I've always kind of kept that in mind. I've had conversations with all sorts of personnel people. We talked about the conversations I had with, you know, talking about the. The Broncos and the Redskins success over the years and then and Shanahan system and what fits and plant sticking your foot in the ground and accelerating in terms of that outside zone scheme. A lot of different conversations, but that's one that always stood out to me. It's like. And we. We now have the stat of forced missed tackles. Right. And I'm not going to get into all. All those numbers. We have months to go, go through them all. What's going to intrigue me, though? And we could kind of wrap up on this unless you have a lot of other stuff, the matchups here. Okay.

B (74:11)

Right.

A (74:11)

Dylan Sampson has faced a lot of talent, so I. I don't think this is. This is going to be a proving ground necessarily for him, but I sure as hell want to see him against this Ohio State front. Flip side. I want to see these two backs in an offense that has not been throwing the ball and that has been relying on their running backs and has. Has an offensive line issue, as we saw against Michigan and going into the playoff against that defensive front that's absolutely freaking loaded for Tennessee. I want to see, like, Judkins, Henderson, can you. Can you create yards on your own? Can you, like, step, like, big moment. Here we are. This is what we've all been waiting for, this College Football Playoff. Can you create yards that aren't blocked for you? Okay, then I want to see the next round. Jordan James, can you do that? The offensive line has been good. Great. An offensive tackle for Oregon, great out there, but in the interior, just okay. That's kind of a weakness of this team. Against Tennessee's front or Ohio State's front, I want to see. Can he create yards in against those defensive fronts? He hasn't faced a lot of those. Truly. He hasn't faced a really good Penn State defense, had some. Had success. MAFA against Texas. Good luck.

B (75:30)

That's Fair. I think that's fair.

A (75:31)

But Scatter. Scatter Boo versus Texas in round two. Now we're going to find out some stuff, right? And I. And he's probably not going to rush for 100 yards in that game.

B (75:39)

Maybe he will.

A (75:40)

We'll see. But can he create yards on his own against that ferocious front? Tyson lost. Lawton that I talked. Lawson that I talked about. Lawton that I talked about for Indiana. I think he's got juice. I think he can create his own. Can he do it against a really good Notre Dame front? You know, I want to see Jeremiah Love, even though he's not a draft prospect, against the Georgia front. Then I want to see Penn State if they beat smu. I mean, the one I'm dying to see, I think we all are, is Ashton Jinty without a great passing game. He's got to be the guy versus a Penn State front, you know, so this is for scouts. This is. This opportunity wasn't there with a 14 playoff. We. We wouldn't see Scatter Boo against this level of competition. We wouldn't have that opportunity. Scatter Boo wouldn't have that opportunity to showcase what he can do. Same for. Same for Jinty. Wouldn't have had that opportunity to go up against a Penn State team. So these are great opportunities for these, for these draft prospects.

B (76:41)

Yeah, they're everywhere. Even Rashad Smith, the SMU running back in the first round against Penn State. Every game you look at, it just. There's talent everywhere. Every game you look at, there's some kind of interesting thing going on with the running back in terms of the matchup. It only gets better each round, too.

A (76:55)

This has been fun, man. And we'll. We'll keep doing this and. And obviously, like, the buzz will get a lot more, you know, directed towards NFL teams who's going to draft who, who's going at number three, who's going to fall to number four, you know, what are. The team needs, all that stuff. But this is a great time of year to just kind of unload the notebook. And I enjoy doing this, honestly. In a couple weeks we can come back and do another one. Mostly on the defensive side. And like the conversations I had about these defensive linemen, kind of the frustrations with some of these, the linebackers. Although I do have. I have one guy who could be. That's my guy on Thursday. I gotta go watch his tape.

B (77:36)

Sneaky. He.

A (77:37)

He's a player who I have not evaluated plays a linebacker position. Wasn't a starter until this year in the third game a care. A scout I talked to said he has a better grade on him than Peyton Will Peyton Wilson.

B (77:52)

Really?

A (77:53)

Yeah. So anyway, something to keep an eye on. There's a lot of stuff to talk on the defensive side. I'm excited. Thursday. Thursday we're going to preview the college games and we have like, who could be better out there and we put a lot of thought on this. Not going to have a lot of coaches on this show, but. But you look at Billy Napier having faced three teams in the College Football Playoff, what insight he can bring in terms of previewing some of these games, moving forward in the college football playoffs. So that'll be Thursday. We'll also get into kind of some breakdowns, our own breakdowns of what we're expecting. Fanduel. We're going to. Going to kind of hit. Hit it big on Thursday. I like finish the season strong. Just gotta just. I'm ready. I'm. I'm ready to make it rich men.

B (78:37)

Look at that. Flu medicines kicking in.

A (78:39)

I think so too. And then, and then on Saturday, please join us like that. I think it could be the most. I mean how could it not be the best show of the entire year of our entire existence. Right? Saturday night. Yeah, we got one game Friday night. Saturday night we got three games. We got a noon kick, 4pm Eastern kick and an 8pm Eastern kick. And after that Tennessee Ohio State game, the prime time game. We're going to be right here, you and me. Maybe Rossola will jump on if he wants. We can live with him or live without him. My recruiting speech. But, but we'll have a blast on Saturday night and we appreciate everyone who is. Who has been a part of this ride with us. Please spread the news. You know, we're just trying, like I always say, engine that little engine that could. Trying to make it through. But we're excited for Thursday as a preview and then Saturday night a review. Please join us. Anything else? Mention any wise. Any words of wisdom you want to impart as we leave?

B (79:36)

I got.

A (79:37)

Not getting ready for the holidays. I'm excited you got the Santa beard going, man.

B (79:42)

Yeah, always. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited for Saturday night, man. That's. That's our Christmas gift. I think it's going to be. I think so first year of like the. The wider playoff. It's going to be awesome.

A (79:50)

Yeah. All right. Appreciate everyone joining. We'll see you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-ate-HOPE NY or text Hope NY in New York.