Previewing Ohio State–Michigan With Coach Urban Meyer. Plus, Talking Lane Kiffin’s Big Decision

Summary

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The McShay Show

Episode: Previewing Ohio State–Michigan With Coach Urban Meyer. Plus, Talking Lane Kiffin’s Big Decision

Date: November 26, 2025

Host: Todd McShay (with Steve), Guest: Urban Meyer

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Episode Overview

In this special Thanksgiving week episode, Todd McShay brings on legendary college football coach Urban Meyer to preview the highly anticipated Ohio State–Michigan game—one of college football’s greatest rivalries. Meyer reflects on his years coaching in the game, discusses Ohio State’s mindset and preparation, evaluates this year’s defenses and quarterbacks, and provides rare insight into the emotional and practical challenges facing coaches during big transitions, such as the one Lane Kiffin is rumored to be considering. The episode is peppered with betting talk, picks of the week, and Meyer’s unique mixture of intensity, old-school values, and candid storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rivalry Week and Ohio State–Michigan: The Stakes and Psychology

• Rivalry Intensity

  • McShay notes the significance of the week for college football and brings on Urban Meyer, who boasts an 85.4% career win record, to dissect the gravity of “The Game.”
  • Meyer doubles down on how seriously the rivalry is taken:

    “Did I take it to the extreme? I probably did. But there was a guy that coached for 28 years named Woody Hayes that took it pretty serious.” (Urban Meyer, 18:18)

• Institutionalizing the Rivalry

  • Meyer emphasizes how he treated preparation for Michigan as a year-round project:

    “…once a week have a ‘team up north’ workout. And all we do though is just to make sure it’s on their mind.” (Urban Meyer, 19:54)

  • Rivalry-themed practices, motivational videos, and symbolic gestures (e.g., taping scout team helmets to resemble Michigan's) keep focus sharp.

• Mindset and Motivation

  • Meyer’s golden rule for his teams: never disrespect the opponent, always acknowledge Michigan’s talent:

    “If I ever heard a player say something about, well, we’re gonna kick their ass... Never say that. Because the minute someone thinks the Wolverines don’t have great players, you have no idea what you’re talking about.” (Urban Meyer, 19:02)

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2. Urban Meyer’s Relationship with Ryan Day and Succession at Ohio State

• Mentorship and Boundaries

  • Meyer discusses passing the baton to Day, emphasizing their closeness but recognizing Day’s autonomy:

    “That chair is the loneliest chair that exists....I think I’m more there to check on him because I care about him.” (Urban Meyer, 22:07)

  • Critical post-loss conversations are more about personal support than football advice.

• Modern Pressures

  • He shares personal experiences of coping with fan and media pressures, family stress, and the singular intensity of leading Ohio State.

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3. Ohio State’s 2025 Defense: Historically Good?

• Reloading After NFL Departures

  • McShay notes Ohio State’s loss of eight defensive starters to the draft, yet their current unit’s dominance.
  • Urban Meyer likens the defense’s unpredictability to legendary units of Miami, USC, Alabama, and Georgia.

    “I don’t know where it’s coming from and I’m a pretty good eye....If you don’t have any idea where it’s coming from, your players don’t have the advantage you as a coach should give them.” (Urban Meyer, 26:48)

• Gameplanning Against OSU’s Defense

  • Meyer would focus on quarterback runs to simplify things and avoid forcing a young QB into errors:

    “I’d put double tape on his ankles. I might even throw a neck roll on his ass....I might run this quarterback a bunch. Why? Just get first downs. That’s the great equalizer.” (Urban Meyer, 28:22)

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4. Quarterback Development: Risks, Rewards, and Wisdom

• Managing First-Year Starters

  • Both hosts discuss the new wave of premier programs starting first-year quarterbacks in title hunts.
  • Meyer about prepping a first-year starter:

    “J.T. Barrett was a grown ass man....After five games...I challenge players. I don’t want to hear that freshman nonsense anymore.” (Urban Meyer, 32:38)

  • Notes that some (e.g., Bryce Underwood) aren’t progressing as rapidly as he expected, which is especially risky against elite defenses.

• Evaluating Top QB Talent

  • Meyer lavishes praise on Julian Sayin for his efficiency and accuracy:

    “He could be, I think, the most accurate quarterback of all time at 80% completion rate or something....His 50/50 balls are not 50/50 balls. They’re 90/10.” (Urban Meyer, 34:53)

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5. Injuries, Priorities, and Playoff Calculus

• Playoff Implications vs. Rivalry Importance
  • On whether playoff prospects alter how you play “The Game” with questionable starters:

    “I drank the Kool Aid too long ago. That doesn’t even compute with me...This is the most important thing in our life other than your family, your faith, beating the team up north.” (Urban Meyer, 31:11)

  • Meyer insists full commitment to the rivalry game, regardless of college football playoff logistics.

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6. The Lane Kiffin Decision—Coach’s Candid Perspective

• Inside a Head Coach’s Big Decision
  • Urban Meyer talks about what it’s like to consider accepting new opportunities while emotionally invested in a team:

    “This is a whole different animal....You got a team in the same conference...They could legitimately be in the hunt for the national title. I don’t know how that’ll sit with you the rest of your life, and certainly a player’s life, you know, when you’re leaving a program.” (Urban Meyer, 38:19)

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7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Pressure at Ohio State:

  “When it’s going great, it’s going great. When it’s going bad, it’s going awful.” (Urban Meyer, 22:07)

• On Rivalry Mindset:

  “We trained on this one for 365. So. No, no, this, if you can go, we can go. We’re gonna win this game.” (Urban Meyer, 31:54)

• On McShay's Talent:

  “He’s a pain in the ass, yes...But he’s also a great friend, and I think the best guy out there that evaluates talent and does his work on it.” (Urban Meyer, 37:09)

• Show’s Funniest Flashpoint:
  When asked if working with McShay at ESPN was what drove him back to coaching:

  “Yes, he’s a pain in the ass, yes....But he’s also a great friend....” (Urban Meyer, 37:09)

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Key Timestamps

• 15:05 – Urban Meyer joins, tales from the boat with grandkids.
• 16:43 – Meyer explains the psychology behind his “all in” approach to beating Michigan.
• 19:54 – Year-round rivalry prep: “team up north” workouts, videos, etc.
• 21:48 – Meyer’s relationship with Ryan Day and the demands of the job.
• 25:40 – How an offensive coach might (unsuccessfully) try to gameplan against this year’s Ohio State defense.
• 28:22 – Tactics for handling a true freshman QB in The Game.
• 31:11 – Meyer’s unwavering priority on beating Michigan, regardless of playoff stakes.
• 32:38 – Managing first-year quarterbacks in championship runs; J.T. Barrett stories.
• 34:30 – How far Julian Sayin can go as an elite college QB.
• 38:19 – On the enormous weight of coaching transitions, specifically in Kiffin’s situation.
• 37:09 – Urban’s generous words for Todd McShay—mixed with trademark teasing.

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, immersive, peppered with anecdotes, and often blends seriousness with locker-room humor. Meyer is direct, old-school, and intensely loyal, while McShay and Steve expertly balance professional analysis with personal rapport and timely needle drops. Plenty of locker-room energy and inside jokes—making it highly entertaining to any college football fan.

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In a Nutshell

This episode is a deep dive into the culture, tactics, psychology, and emotional stakes of The Game between Ohio State and Michigan—told through stories, hard-earned wisdom, and occasionally hilarious banter with Urban Meyer, one of the rivalry’s modern architects. The show also peels back the curtain on the pressures facing top head coaches and provides actionable insight for fans, including picks of the week and rare scouting breakdowns. For anyone looking to understand why this rivalry—and this week—mean so much, this episode delivers.

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Transcript

[Todd McShay]

It's rivalry week in college football. Oh, and by the way, it's Thanksgiving as well. So we're going to mix some things up today. We're not going to have the normal programming and I think it's great. We have the best person I can think to interview for the biggest game this Saturday and we got some picks for you. And guess what, 148 days until the NFL draft. I can tell by your face already. But I still gotta ask you, Mitch, you good? I'm excited, man. All right, Tucker, roll that beat, please. The special guest that we're having on 165 wins in 15 seasons said it's a record, major college record. 85.4% of his games as a head coach he won. That's third all time. Want to know what what kind of company he's holding? Newt Rockne and Frank Leahy, one of the best all time college football coaches out there and his name is Urban Meyer. This is the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. And college football Saturdays are heating up. Whether you're in for the early kick or the late night action, FanDuel lets you bet your way with the same game parlays, live betting game props and more. And Missouri, get excited because FanDuel is coming your way on December 1st. Download the app or head to FanDuel.com McShay and make every Saturday count. Must be 21 and older in present select states or 18 and older in present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit CCP Do Cat in Connecticut. So we're excited to have him on the show and we'll bring to you in just a few minutes. If the text messages back and forth are true, he's been with a couple grandkids in the out in the middle of the the Gulf all day. So I'm looking forward to seeing just.

[Steve]

Freezing our asses off.

[Todd McShay]

He's I know. I just got back from a JV football game and he's out there catching sharks and all sorts of exotic fish that he's texting me about. Also won three national championships, Bowling Green, Utah, Florida, Ohio State. And I just couldn't like who we're not going to have a regular week. We do our tape tape trudes on Monday and we docked that out on Monday and you did an awesome job. I gave you five stars for it, Mitch. And here we are in the middle of the week on a Wednesday and it's like, all right, like I got to go see family. We got a lot going on. Let's just bring in someone who I'm, I'm close with and consider, you know, extended family, Urban Meyer and. And let's like who has a better perspective on what's going on, especially with Ryan. Day 1 in 4. This record lost four straight to Michigan coming off a national championship. Like the pressures. And this episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Fox 1 is now live stream all your Fox favorites together in one place from NFL on Fox to big noon Saturdays with Fox one. You get it all live start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one streaming now. So we're going to get to a lot of stuff with Urban. I also want to ask him about Lane Kiffin. What's that like? Like this is a unique spot. What's that like?

[Steve]

But I do want to say perspective.

[Todd McShay]

I do want to start with this. FanDuel has been so good to us. Listen, I, I want to start with the FanDuel picks of the week as we always do. But I do want to throw this in and I'm going to give no context. I'm not going to talk about rankings. I'm just going to say, remember the conversation we had and I'm trying to pull up the text right now from, from Tuck. There it is. Remember the conversation we had about these SEC teams that I think should be clustered right and, and get the state of Utah football out of here And I'm probably going to get some hate mail for it. But I'm just, I'm over it. Unless BYU upsets Texas Tech, I'm over it. We don't need cont. Context. We'll get back to the rankings. We'll give you the TMS top 12 on Saturday. We're going to have a live show. Still working out the details. Check the social media. I'm @mcshay13. He's at you. Good me n ch but I asked the question to Tucker to ask our guys and ladies at FanDuel and they always deliver. I wanted Todd's odds, as they call these hypothetical odds always popping up. And. And here's what we got back. Neutral sites. Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Texas. I wanted to know what the spread would be and who would be favored against byu because I'm convinced all three of those teams. And, and last week when I brought this up, we were talking about like I think 14 was Vanderbilt 17 was Texas and like 20 was, was Tennessee.

[Steve]

Tennessee. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Tennessee and Vanderbilt both four point favorites against BYU on a neutral site. And Texas three and a half point favorite against BYU on a neutral site. Interesting. The Tennessee.

[Steve]

Yeah. Right.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Steve]

I also thought the number would be bigger. I'm gonna be honest with you. I thought those numbers would be bigger.

[Todd McShay]

I thought they'd be a little bit bigger. But, but it's good to know that like, the people who set the lines, who are the best in the world and when we, when we contact Fanduel, like, they, they, they do pretty well. They do well enough to make sure the lights and the cameras are on in this show. So. So clearly they know what they're doing and we appreciate their partnership and, and them constantly providing some, some odds to give us some perspective on things that, that we, you know, we, we watch the tape and we have the conversations and we have the contacts and all that stuff. But it's good to know what the, the professionals are. Are thinking.

[Steve]

Yeah. They must like LJ Martin as much as you, the running back from byu. That must have something to do with it. Stud.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, stud. We'll get to him in April.

[Steve]

He gives him a chance.

[Todd McShay]

He does. All right. So FanDuel pick of the week. What do you got going right to the Egg Bowl?

[Steve]

I mean, how do you not. I mean, Ole Miss is distracted. Mississippi State's a better team than they were last year. They played Texas tough at home. This is a home game for them. You know this, this Ole Miss has had some tight games. That's a six and a half point spread. Gotta look at that Egg Bowl. Ole Miss covers by a lot. I don't think even close. Mississippi State stinks. Yeah. They're better than last year when they, they were. They stunk worse. They still stink now. One in six in the sec. Give me a break. There's no way that Ole Miss doesn't cover that spread. I love that spread.

[Todd McShay]

Interesting. See, I'm going opposite of you, man. And, and I gotta be honest, I'm on an absolute tear. I love you when you, you only.

[Steve]

Have to be honest when you're on a tear.

[Todd McShay]

I've never said.

[Steve]

I've never heard you say. I have to be honest. I'm on a cooler. Like I'm just on. Just can't get, get one right.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, you have to call it, call it like it is, but you don't have to announce everything every week. But since October, I mean, okay.

[Urban Meyer]

I've.

[Todd McShay]

Just done this for 25 years. I've been on the road for about 15 of them. Like in airports checking out scores. Like, no way Pitts beaten West Virginia. No way that garbage Mississippi State team or Ole Miss team is beating the other. No way Auburn beats Alabama. It happens every year. And it's like we get amnesia. Okay, so I'm going to tell you there are four games that I love and they're all rival. Three of them are rivalry games. One of them is not technically the rivalry. Oklahoma already played Texas. That was, that's the rivalry. But I'm scrolling. If you look at me on YouTube and we appreciate you watching, I'm going through my phone to get the latest you can see. Hopefully you didn't see. Yeah, hopefully you didn't see my account. I keep doing that. I got to put my thumb over.

[Steve]

It, playing fast and loose.

[Todd McShay]

But if you didn't see it, you can tell I'm kind of on a run right now. And I don't, you know. All right, Oregon, Washington, six and a half point spread. I'm taking. All dogs take the points this week, folks. I'm giving you four plays right here. These four specifically. Washington plus six and a half against Oregon. Okay.

[Steve]

Don't hate it.

[Todd McShay]

Vanderbilt versus Tennessee. Nope, that's not one of them. Sorry, that's not one of them. I, I, I don't like that game.

[Steve]

Let's go.

[Todd McShay]

Button it up.

[Urban Meyer]

Here we go.

[Todd McShay]

Stick with me here. I, I'll come back to it. It's Washington over, over Oregon or with the points against Oregon. Next one is LSU plus ten and a half. You watch.

[Steve]

Really?

[Todd McShay]

You watch? You watch. That offense is not a ticking, it's not a ticket. And LSU's defense is just good enough. Just watch. Ten and a half points. Okay. They're going to have a scare in Norman. Another one. Next one is Auburn, Alabama and the Iron Bowl. It disgusts me. It absolutely makes my stomach sick having to press that button. Plus five and a half, Auburn. And that's why I know it's a winner.

[Steve]

Yeah. Watch out. I, that was my set. That was my, the next one on my list. Man, Auburn could break Alabama's hearts. They really could. I, I think that Alabama wins that game, but I like that the Auburn with the points.

[Todd McShay]

And here's another one that makes me kind of not as sick as, not as sick, but still like, I don't want to, don't want to finish my Thanksgiving meal knowing that I have Michigan plus nine and a half over Ohio State. Parlay all of them. Get some alt lines in there. Get over 400 plus 400 on it. See what you can do. I like all four of those games. Washington, Michigan, Auburn, lsu, Ohio State.

[Steve]

Fans hate you right now. You first. You jinx them. You jinx them on the money. They can win.

[Todd McShay]

They can win by nine.

[Urban Meyer]

We're good.

[Todd McShay]

They want. They want all the. They want awareness this week. They want awareness.

[Steve]

Well, I think they've got enough awareness. I don't think they need any more awareness.

[Todd McShay]

You know who's got awareness of this rivalry? You know, who has awareness of being the, like, the lone man in that seat and unless you've lived in Ohio, which I have. Unless you've been around that rivalry, which I have from the Michigan side. Growing up, my. I told you, my grandfather, Marshall Brown, who got kind of just injected the love of football and college football specifically into me.

[Steve]

He.

[Todd McShay]

He was. Bo Schembechler, was a recruiting. Recruiting area. Handled that back when that was legal. And now I'm sure it would be legal because everything's legal in college football. But I'm not still to this day, not 100% certain. Everything that he and boy was legal. I'm not awesome things. You saw some things and God rest his soul, but he's not around for me to ask him. But anyway, my point is, unless you've been around this, it's hard to understand just like how deep this thing burns, how much it means. And it's a 365 deal. And no one embodied the 365 deal more during our lifetime, at least with the game, Michigan, Ohio State than Urban Meyer. I mean, he like. And we'll get to all the stories anyway, but I'm excited. Word is he's here. Let's bring him on. He's fresh off the boat. So I'm excited to bring to you with Steve, a an interview with. With urban Meyer. The McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. This Thanksgiving, FanDuel is introducing a brand new way to parlay together. It's called pass the leg. Here's how it works. Start a group, add your pick, then pass it on to your friends so that they can add theirs. When everyone's done, you each lock in the parlay with your own funds on top. Everyone gets a 50% profit boost to use on their build. Here's how I look at it. Use any one of these four if you want, but I'm rooting for chaos. But I honestly like the underdogs in all four of these games. I think we're gonna have a mess on our hands after this weekend college football. So go with the underdogs here and take the points. Washington against Oregon in that hostile environment in the game, I'd like Michigan again to cover the points. Looking forward. Auburn, they're going to keep it tight with that defense against Ty Simpson in Alabama. Take the points there in the Iron Bowl. And finally, LSU is going to give Oklahoma a scare. And while we're at it, Missouri, get ready because FanDuel's coming live on December 1st. That's a huge deal. FanDuel play your game must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See [e-mail] Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chat in Connecticut this.

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[Todd McShay]

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[Urban Meyer]

I'm lucky I'm alive. I took an 8 year old and a 6 year old grandkids out 50 miles out in the Gulf of America and we got yellowtail snapper and we caught a mutton snapper. We caught shark, we caught barracuda.

[Todd McShay]

Oh my gosh.

[Urban Meyer]

And yeah, still alive though. I'm good.

[Todd McShay]

You Had a better day than me. I just got back from a JV football game, so a little different experience. Well, we appreciate it.

[Urban Meyer]

You're evaluating, young pal.

[Todd McShay]

Nah, just my, my. Yeah, my stepson playing on the JV team. So, so there for support. Saying nothing, keeping my mouth shut, you know. So here we are. And congrats by the way. Ring of honor at Florida this week. That's a pretty special thing. I know you absolutely loved your time there, so we, and we appreciate you taking the time. So let's just dive into it. I, I'm gonna start with this because we're friends. So I, I'm gonna just be. Be honest. I can remember when you first started at Ohio State and you started the team up north stuff and the, and I heard of scouts I talked to like maybe not being allowed in the building because they were wearing, wearing the, you know, blue or different colors that they shouldn't be wearing and all these things because you had made it an all encompassing, like just venture, if you will, that, that we were going to beat Michigan. That was, that was, you know, the, that was primary. And I remember thinking to myself, it just felt maybe a little like, why is Urban doing this? Does he need to, you know, does he need to put all these things in? And then you won one and then you won two, and then you won five and six and seven.

[Urban Meyer]

And.

[Todd McShay]

And obviously the psychology behind it was really important to your mission there in Columbus. Right? And so, and obviously Ryan Day coach with you and your staff very, you know, was part, I'm sure part of the decision making with, with you and passing along the torch. And he's had his struggles against Michigan coming off a national championship and there's still stuff out there. One and four. He's lost four strai. Why is this year different for Ohio State against Michigan?

[Urban Meyer]

I really believe it was last year. It kind of shocked me. I was there, I watched it. I really, I believe Ohio State was even a bigger favorite last year. I can't remember the point spread and all that, but just the skill set of the two teams. It wasn't even close. We covered them both and it was like Ohio State's offense, they, you know, they. It was a little bit like the super bowl where, you know, the Wolverines played too high and just dared them to run. And the two inside nose got the two tackle nose guards for the inside guys for the Wolverines just beat the hell out of the Ohio State. And, and we've all been in games, I've been in games like that you wake up like, wait a minute, it's the third quarter, let's go. And then something happens. You punt the ball, then it's fourth quarter. And then I remember when the player broke the run for the Wolverines at the end and they kicked their field goal. And I mean the, the state of Ohio dies when you lose that game. And people, people often criticize. I'm not criticize me. But have fun with it. Saying like a little bit like you. Why? Why, why? Why? I guess because I grew up in the great state of Ohio.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

I grew up in a 10 year war. I lived this rivalry even when, when I wasn't coaching it. Did I take it to the extreme? I probably did. But there was a guy that coached for 28 years named Woody Hayes that took it pretty serious. And Earl Br worked for than Jim Trestle. So I tried to, you know, and, and I didn't do it to be silly, you know, and I, I would get really pissed off, Todd, when I would. If I ever hurt our players or staff, I mean, and everybody knew that was, that was going to be a really bad day for you. If someone made light of the fact that we won't say that team's name, we'll never dis. Disrespect them. If I ever heard a player say something about, well, we're going to kick their ass or we're going to. They're not very good. Never say that.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

Because the minute someone thinks that the Wolverines don't have great players, you have no idea what you're talking about. Those are great players and they're certainly going to play their best in this game.

[Steve]

Coach, first of all, McShay forgets his manners. Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you and your family have.

[Todd McShay]

A great holiday season.

[Steve]

It would have been nice if he'd gotten off on the right foot, but that's all right. Just you've coached in a lot of the games, obviously Utah, Florida, Ohio State, not just this rivalry game. Do you tweak your approach the week of a big game like this to make sure that your guys aren't peaking too early? Do you want to keep that business as usual so they're on the same regiment? You know, players get used to things.

[Todd McShay]

Or is.

[Steve]

Or do you do something a little bit different and acknowledge that this one's a little bit different than the other ones?

[Urban Meyer]

No, this is completely different. Not so much game week, that's more throughout the year. For example, we'll have team up. We used to call them team up north periods throughout Spring practice in January and February, we'd at least once a week have a team up north workout. And all we do though is just to make sure it's on their mind. We'll play constant documentaries and rivalry videos throughout the year. I'll pick a day, I'll come in and I'll say, screw it, make this the Wolverine workout. And all the coaches will be in there and, you know, just that much more intense. But the week of you're other than, you know, we used to have the band come over on Sunday and do the script Ohio with our players. You come out to practice on Tuesday and the scout teams, they actually tape their helmets to look the wing helmets to be maize and blue. But no, you know, at the end of the day it's, you got the most prepared team's going to win. So we don't do a lot differently as far as preparation. It's more leading up to the game and in the off season. And just think, I never want that team not to be on the minds of our players.

[Todd McShay]

I didn't plan on asking you this, but it just came to mind and I'm really curious because you passed the torch on to Ryan day. Right. And have an unbelievable amount of respect for him. You, you kind of, you know, were part of his development and growth in the college profession. But then when you hand the keys over, it's his job. Right. How much. How much discussion do you two have and when. When times are tough, is it some. Do you guys have conversations? Do you try to get involved in trying to help him with certain things, or is it kind of only when he reach. I'm just curious what that relationship's like and, and how much of. How difficult is it for you knowing the way you did things and how wanting to see that same success for this program, but knowing that he's. He's the guy now, you know?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, we're very close. I, I speak to Ryan quite a bit. We text a lot.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Urban Meyer]

I think, I think, you know, his first year we had more conversation because I was there. I was an assistant athletic director and I was around and, and. But as time moved on, it's more. I'll text him and check on him and him and his family.

[Todd McShay]

Right.

[Urban Meyer]

That. That. That chair is the loneliest chair in the. That exists. You're the head coach of the school. When it's going great, it's going great. When it's going bad, it's going awful. And I think my responsibility, you know, I. There's not a lot I can tell Ryan about, you know, how to run a three by one, you know, crossing. No, he's, he's the best I've ever been around as far as offensively. He's done a really good job. Motivation, you know, he's done a really good job with his staff early in his career. I helped him with that, I helped him with organization a little bit early in his career. But you look what he's done. His organization skills are a 10. His ability to acquire talent is a 10. His staff, you know, the way he evaluates his staff and I mean, I think he's got an incredible coaching staff, but I, I think I'm more there to, you know, to very, you know, all due respect to Todd or to whomever, he can't say, hey, Todd, tell me about how you handle this situation in this chair, you know, or. Yeah, when you're, when you have kids going to school and dealing with the crap they got to deal with or your, your wife have to. Those are all, those are all real world situations that happen to families. It's happened to me. You know, I come home and there's police around my house. I'm like, what the hell's going on? And Shelly tells me some nut job made a threat to someone. And, and those are all. People don't know about those. But those are only things that I can talk to Ryan about because I, yeah, I've been there, pal. I know that this is a bizarre world right now and how are you doing? So it's more about that. You know, he did call me last year after that, the loss to the Wolverines, and we talked about it for quite a while, but then they went on one of the greatest runs in college football history. So it's more, I want to check on him because I care about him.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And you know what it's like kind of going through all that. That's fascinating to me. Let's, let's talk about this game, right? This Ohio State defense. Here's how I look at it. You lose eight guys to the NFL draft. I mean, that team was loaded defensively and, and a lot of like big time players. And then you come back this year and you not only have, you know, eight new starters and obviously Caleb Downs is there and Styles is there and you know, Arvell Reese is going to be a really good player, but he hasn't done it as the guy yet. And then you also bring in a new coordinator and now we're looking at this defense like, quite honestly, I, it May wind up being one of those like decade type defenses. Right. When you think back to like oh one Miami or like USC with Malaluga and Cushing and all those guys or some of the Alabama defenses or most recently the Georgia defenses, but we, I don't know that anyone can stamp it yet because they haven't necessarily played the schedule where you, you can pinpoint, you know, four or five different games where they've had to step up. But if, but if they continue on this trajectory, maybe it is one of those defenses. So as you know, when you started out in, in coaching, you were. One of the reasons you rose so fast early on was the spread attack and finding players in space and, and the creativity of it. I'm curious, when you watch this Ohio State defense, when the offensive mind starts to churn a little bit, how would you try to attack it? Is it more, is it tempo? Is it trying to the mobility of the quarterback? Knowing what you have personnel wise Michigan, what are you trying to do to try to crack this wall, if you will?

[Urban Meyer]

I watched Ohio State defense first of all because I'm intrigued by and Mapatrush has been a friend for mine 20 years. And I, when I watch it, I always try to find indicators. You know, that's my first for 40 years. That's what you do as an offense coach. You turn on play. You're not watching the ball, you're watching the safeties, you're watching the rotation. You're watching if there's something that's going to tell you where it's coming from. And that's what they do a great job of. So I mean instantaneously if I watch a game on tv.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Urban Meyer]

Like you know, I'm not watching that. I'm watching. We're in there. They're called indicators. You know, in the old days it was when the safeties, the boundary safety was 3 yards off the hash corner was impressed. Was corner blitz.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Urban Meyer]

If, if the strong safety was inside number two and the free safety was cheating towards the field is a field blitz. Teams are so, you know the, the evolution of defensive football because of the self scout, the analytics and all the video and I mean patrician and he tells me the intelligence of his players. That's the hardest thing right now. You don't, I don't know where it's coming from and I'm a pretty good eye.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

I can imagine a young true freshman quarterback in Ann Arbor watching what they've been doing and saying okay now where's it? That's the whole key isn't people. That's it's really good conversation. What's the whole keys and offense, where is it coming from? Because I don't care who if it's our real Reese or Caleb Downs. If you know where it's coming from you have a chance for success because all you got to do is get hat on hat and you get plus yardage even if it's great players. But if you don't have any idea where it's coming from then you're putting your players, your players don't have the advantage that you as an offensive coach should give them. And that makes you, that's sick. That makes you sick to your stomach. When we go into games and I knew deep down we're not helping our quarterback, we're not helping that left tackle when, when he sees certain indicators. Here's what's coming and I think that's other than great players, you can't, there's no indicators.

[Todd McShay]

And so, so now, all right, so now you're, you're calling plays for Michigan on Saturday.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Is it simplify so to not so to not put this freshman quarterback in this game against that defense and that personnel without, without great indicators where you feel like you're giving them a schematic advantage? Is it simplify like what, what is it that you're trying to do to try to put him in the best position to succeed? Knowing just watching the tape like unbelievably talented, big, strong, mobile big time arm. But there's still some real true freshman mistakes and, and not seeing things even when they aren't. Matt Patricia in Ohio State esque.

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, I, I, I'd put double tape on his ankles. I'd make sure I might have been throwing neck roll on his ass. But I'm just, but the whole idea is get first downs, you know and then once you cross that 50 yard line you can screw around a little bit, take a shot down the field. But I would not mess around.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

You know, you've seen me with quarterbacks and this kid is not a good run. He's a really good runner now. Yes, he's going to get beat up a little bit but I tell get your mind right here. I'm going to run you 15, 16, 18 times and I'm going to do all we can to keep you on, on schedule until this game slows down for you a little bit the first half. I might, I might run this quarterback a bunch. Why just get first downs. That's the great equalizer. The quarterback run it equal, it equates numbers and it slows the game down for a guy like that, you know, over a quarterback. And all of a sudden you got to start defending the run. They'll show their ass. They'll show their hand a little bit. So I would, I would. I've been in that situation. I know. And I've talked to my quarterbacks before. Hey, listen, here's how this game's going to start until we slow this, this stuff down a little bit and we can get a feel for what they're playing because they're going to show their hand in that first, first four series, three series.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

You have a good idea how they're going to. They can't all of a sudden come out in like the second half and be in a different defense. That's really hard to do. Calm down, get first downs, get a couple field goals, maybe find a way to score a touchdown. But play field position football. Do not put your quarterback in harm's way and figure it out. And then once you get it dialed in on the sideline, okay, this is what they're in now. Let them start to play a little bit other than running the ball. That's what I would do.

[Todd McShay]

I love that. I got one more for you on this game. And then I think Steve's going to jump in before we transition to some other stuff. I read today that, that Ryan Day came out and said that Jeremiah Smith, all world receiver, Carnell Tate, who's played his way into the first round this year, they're both quote, unquote, day to day, right? It's a different word. You and I talk about this a lot. It's a different world we live in now. This game means everything. But there's also a college football playoff run looming. I know these decisions are made by doctors, but do you, do you handle this situation any differently? Like, if this was the last game and there was no national championship, you're, you're kind of like you said, double tape their ankles, whatever you got to do to get them out there and play. But is there a little bit if, if you're the head coach and you're looking at this situation, is there concern if we, if we play him in this game? And maybe not just. I'm not even asking for information on these two. I'm just saying in general, does it kind of change the mindset of pushing because this, this is it, this is everything, or is it still the same? Ohio State, Michigan, if you can physically, anything in your body can allow you to play. You play?

[Urban Meyer]

Yeah, I, I drank the Kool Aid too long ago. That doesn't even compute with me that this is the most important thing in our life other than your family, your faith, beating the team up north. And you know, and I remember Jerry DiNardo makes fun of me all the time when he says you would really say that you'd lose every game and win this one. I said, absolutely. I looked him like, of course. And do I understand that the world has changed and you know, Coach Day in Ohio State's first team, I think that everyone the national champs without winning that game. And I get it, it's great. But you're talking to an old school Buckeye that. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We, this is it. We've been, we trained on this one for 365. So. No, no, this, if you can go, we can go. We're going to win this game.

[Todd McShay]

I love it. All right, go ahead, Steve. Coach.

[Steve]

This ties into some of the stuff you've already talked about, your relationship with Coach Day and a young quarterback going against a great defense. I think one of the great storylines in college football this year is all of these contenders who have first year starters at quarterback. You know, you're looking at Gunners Stockton at Georgia, Dante Moore at Oregon, C.J. carr at Notre Dame, Ty Simpson at Alabama, Arch Manning at Texas. All first year starters, first full time starters. You won a national championship with a first year starter in J.T. barrett and then had Cardell Jones had to make the postseason run and he hadn't started the game either. How did you balance staying aggressive with bringing along an inexperienced and not overwhelming an inexperienced quarterback? And what was that overall situation like for you?

[Urban Meyer]

Well, it's got to be fit for the person who you're dealing with. You know, J.T. barrett was a grown ass man and after, you know, other than physical maturity, he was after five games and I would, you know, I challenge players. I don't want to hear that freshman nonsense anymore. You played, you're so by the time you get to this part of the season, hopefully you've moved on. I think that's a little different with Bryce Underwood. You know, I see a, you know, I don't see quite the development I thought I would see because I think this kid's a star. I, I'm a big fan of Bryce Underwood. I mean, typically it, it takes a long time for a freshman quarterback to go on. Early on, what I saw from Bryce Underwood, I thought he'd be a little further ahead now than he is and throwing a catchable ball. I think he, you know, he did. I think it was Maryland, you know, we did something on Big Ten network. He, he had his best game. He made some. He made some really, really good throws. But then other times I've seen him throw that uncatchable ball. And the problem with an uncatchable ball against the Soho State defense, it's an interception. So that's the biggest problem. So to answer your question, depends on the person. But I would always, and I was fortunate by the time of Dwayne Haskins or J.T. barrett, you know, by the time we hit week 10 or certainly week 7, 8, 9, that wasn't even our conversation anymore.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, let's flip it over to Julian saying, I'm. I'm curious. You've been around.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I was just gonna say you've been around a lot of great quarterbacks. And I know you watch this program as you watch the whole country now, obviously with, with Big Noon Kick and Triple Option. Check out Coach's podcast as well. I jump on it once a month with them. Just a great show with Mark Ingram and Rob Stone. But you've been around a lot of great quarterbacks. How good can this guy be?

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, I've heard about him because obviously I'm very close with Mark Pantoni and coach Day Hartline, etc. He was kind of slight when I stood next to him. I think it was last year. And I'm like, man, this guy's not very big. But they kept saying his arm talent is and his accuracy is. He could be, I think, the most accurate quarterback of all time at 80% completion rate or something.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Urban Meyer]

You know, I don't want to be the one great common denominator of every great quarterback or great receivers. And my gosh, does he have them?

[Todd McShay]

Yes, he.

[Urban Meyer]

He's. He's got everything you need at that position. The, you know, his 50, 50 balls are not 50, 50 balls. They're 90, 10.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Urban Meyer]

And so he's got, he's got advantage that they played a schedule that was very manageable. Early on, it was a masterclass on how to develop a quarterback. What they did against Texas and early in the season was a masterclass, the way they handled them. And then they started playing a schedule where they were simply outmanning people and they started to give them success. So it's been a, A beautiful case study how to develop a young quarterback. But, you know, things are about to get a little tougher in the next three, four Weeks.

[Todd McShay]

I know you. You've had a long day on the boat with two youngsters, but I. And I was going to get to some other stuff, but, like, you got to get back to your family, and I. You already ate the fish, though, right?

[Urban Meyer]

You.

[Todd McShay]

You took care of that.

[Urban Meyer]

Oh, I'm exhausted. And we. We just had the fish. I have about 10 people over here, including 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 grandkids.

[Todd McShay]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Urban Meyer]

And they're streaming, and. Yeah, it's great.

[Todd McShay]

All right.

[Steve]

So can I ask you one quick question?

[Todd McShay]

Good.

[Steve]

After you left Florida, you went to work for ESPN, and that's where you met Todd McShay. You were there for less than a year. Was McShade that bad? Is that what got you back on the sidelines to Ohio States? Do Ohio state fans have McShade to thank for a national championship?

[Urban Meyer]

You know, and I'm going to take this time to. He knows I love the guy. He knows that. He's one of my favorite people here. Here's how good Todd is. And this is. This is from the bottom of my heart. I've dealt with GMs, and I've dealt with personnel people. Obviously, my one year, and then throughout, you know, Maybe the last 15 years of my career, we had probably the most talented teams in the country. I would see them all. And then the time I spend with Todd and the time I talk to him, you know, I'm really shocked. He's not a guy that's deciding who goes on rosters, because he's that good. I know he puts in the work. So, yes, he's a pain in the ass. Yes.

[Steve]

That's what I want to hear.

[Todd McShay]

There it is.

[Urban Meyer]

He's got a dry sense of humor. Yes. But he's also a great friend, and I think the best guy out there that evaluates talent and. And does his work on it. So. I love being coach.

[Todd McShay]

That's. That's very kind of you. You must. It's the. It's having the grandkids around that softened you up today. I appreciate that means. That means the world to me. I. I know. It really does. And, of course, just like me, I'm going to ruin the moment and ask you one last question. Lane Kiffin is out there. I'm not asking you for where he's going or. But I. But I really am curious because there's not many people in the world that have the perspective on what this decision is like. You're coaching young men that you truly love, that you care about their. Them and their family and their futures. There's opportunity out there. And you're trying to weigh all of these things while coaching these players.

[Urban Meyer]

What.

[Todd McShay]

What it would be. What would it be like? Take us into just a. A glimpse into what it's like to make this kind of decision and what Lane's kind of going through right now and what that process would be.

[Urban Meyer]

I'd never had. You know, the decision I made were Bowling Green, Utah, which was. That was excruciating because I love those kids, but it was a step up. Then I went from Utah to Florida, and that was, you know, we had the best season Utah's ever had, and that broke my heart. But to a play, maybe a couple, but to a player, they actually came in and said, congratulations. Yeah, as you moved on and we went to the Fiesta bowl, you know, first BCS bowl, et cetera, et cetera, this is a whole different animal. You know, you got a team in the same conference, you got a team that you're playing for national title. They could legitimately be in the hunt for the national title. I don't. I know Lane pretty well. I've not talked to him about it, but I don't know how you. I just don't know how, you know, I don't know how that. That'll sit with you the rest of your life, and certainly a player's life, you know, when you're leaving a program. Like, I left Bowling Green, we didn't even get to go to a bowl game, so I said goodbye, and they moved on. Then I went to Utah, went back and coached him in the bowl game. We won. And then, you know. But to be in the hunt of, you know, I'm sure it's excruciating, and he's got to do what's best for him and his family, but this is a tough. This is an unprecedented one.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, it is. And obviously, your. Your former team that you coached in national championships and all the talent that you had and all the success that you guys had is one of the. The teams that, you know, Florida, lsu, or does he say it all? Miss. So, yeah, I was just curious to get your perspective. I really appreciate you, coach. Appreciate our friendship, as you well know. I appreciate you coming on. Thanks. It's the game week, and I couldn't think of anyone better that I wanted to talk to you this week, especially with a week of family and friends and. And, you know, being around the people you love. And so I just wanted you to come on the show, and I appreciate your time and now go. Go back to those grandkids, give them all big hugs and enjoy the rest of your time with your family this week, man.

[Urban Meyer]

Thanks, guys. Let's do it again.

[Todd McShay]

Okay? Take care, man. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.

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