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- [00:00]
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- [00:24]
Todd McShay
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- [00:52]
Mensch
Foreign.
- [00:55]
Todd McShay
If you have the disease, if you're sick like us, then you agree there's nothing wrong with getting knee deep in quarterback evals for the 2026 class in early June of 2025. Because if this is sick, who the hell wants to be healthy? It's Kid Club Nick's turn on the summer scouting series. 332 days from the NFL draft. Of course. Course. Men, you good?
- [01:22]
Mensch
I'm good man.
- [01:24]
Todd McShay
DJx summer playlist please. Ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna find out if men just hates Clemson. Stop. Or if he's a non biased evaluator. Today it's Cade Club Nick. Dad, I love this series. We're going through all the top quarterbacks. We're going to go through different position groups. We're going to focus on a couple teams specifically in their talent level. How different it is than normal years might circle back on Clemson later on. Every board I'm looking at it's got a lot of those orange paws on it, man. Yeah, it's this, this. This is the most talented team I think that dabo's had in a decade. But it starts at the quarterback position. Before we get to Kate Club. Nick, we really appreciate you being here. We hope you're having as much fun as us. Hopefully you can stack some of these shows. Enjoy them while you're on the beach hanging out by the barbecue, whatever it is you're doing this summer.
- [02:31]
Mensch
And mention getting quicker too. You don't have to wait too. We're. We're getting quicker too. So you can rip through them.
- [02:37]
Todd McShay
Is that a dig at me? Because I. Because I caught you.
- [02:40]
Mensch
I would never. No.
- [02:41]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [02:42]
Mensch
Never, huh?
- [02:44]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Yeah. We're we're, we're respecting the time of our audience during the summer because admittedly I tend to be a little long winded, but I don't have producers in my ear yelling me rap. And so I'm probably a little, you know, I've, I've gone too far the other way. Tell the people, tell the folks, tell our good friends, tell friends of the show. How can they support us?
- [03:09]
Mensch
This is what you, our friends can tell their friends to go to the YouTube channel, hit the subscribe button, go to Spotify, hit the follow button. Our socials are at McShay 13 and at you good mensch. It's M U E N C H. Please consider subscribing to the McShay report again. You can do that for free, but I'm telling you right now, you might as well.
- [03:30]
Todd McShay
And the mcsh reports out again today. We had, we had Lenora Sellers early in the week on, on Monday morning today. It's Cade Clubnik and it's a deep dive. It's all the, it's every specific play. It's, it's, it's NFL comps, it's all the position specific stuff, the grades, everything.
- [03:48]
Mensch
And just save yourself the time. If you're going to subscribe for free, just, you just get the subscription, pay for it because I'm, I promise you, McShay is good at once, once he's got his teeth into you, once he's got the hook set, he's going to get you. So might as well just save, might as well just save your time and put them.
- [04:02]
Todd McShay
I got my hooks in you when you were 18 years old coming from Andover, Mass. Down to Richmond, Virginia. And I've never let him out, guys.
- [04:10]
Mensch
Relentless. Okay. I'm just saying.
- [04:11]
Todd McShay
All right. Kade Kubnick. Cade's come a long way, man.
- [04:17]
Mensch
Texas legend. Cade Clubnik, legend.
- [04:20]
Todd McShay
I love Texas. I like my quarterback to be a Texas legend.
- [04:24]
Mensch
Right, of course you do.
- [04:27]
Todd McShay
Already 6 foot 2, 210 pounds, not ideal size, but not, not red flags, especially in today's NFL. Again, estimated time, I, I couldn't even get like a, a huddle report time or, or a combine time from him. I'm, I'm estimating in like the 4 6, 465 range. Okay. All right. During his first three seasons at Clemson, that's every, every bit of what he's, when he's been there 20, 22 to 20, 24, 37 career games, 28 career starts, 2,137 snaps match. Okay, kids, played some ball yeah, he's played some ball. He's completed 63.4% of his throws over seven, almost 7,200 yards, 57 touchdowns, just 18 interceptions. Pretty good ratio. Okay. Better than three, three to one. Also rushed for 784 yards and 13 touchdowns on 286 rushing attempts. So obviously back ended most recently this past year full time starter. And, and, and really I thought he, it's funny because I loved him when he first came in with Djangalay and, and I felt like every time he came in the game for Clemson as a, as a pup, he brought a little different energy. It felt like the offense wasn't so stagnant, you know and, and I really.
- [05:55]
Mensch
Came off the bench in the ACC championship game in 2022 and won the MVP.
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Todd McShay
Yes, yes.
- [06:00]
Mensch
And then the, then goes and makes his first start of his college career against that hen and Hooker 6th ranked Tennessee team in the Orange bowl and it was pretty up and down but he did throw it for 3:20. I think in that game he had a, he had a decent day.
- [06:15]
Todd McShay
Right. And then the next season wasn't as good and no. But then this past season he, they finally he showed us what he can be.
- [06:25]
Mensch
I'll say this about 2023. I don't think he was necessarily as bad as. I'm not saying, you're saying as some other people might. But the, the long short of it is Clemson had four losses before you hit November and if you're the quarterback at Clemson and you have four losses when you get to November, I think a lot of that's going to fall at your feet, right or wrong. I think it just, that's just the reality of being the face of that program and being the quarterback there. I mean they had a, they beat Notre Dame, they beat the 14th ranked Notre Dame team. They played some teams tough. They played that Florida State team that was so good that year tough. But at the end of the day it was an up and down year for him I think. And when you have four losses going to November and you're the quarter quarterback Clemson, it's going to reflect poorly on you.
- [07:09]
Todd McShay
So we're not tweaking our scouting process. That's the whole point of this. That's the reason why we're sharing all this. We've never been able to do it before. We've never had a platform to do it before and it feels freeing and wonderful and honestly I, I didn't take it lightly when we asked for. What do you want to hear? What do you want to. You know, we asked our audience and, and a lot of it was this, like, stick to the NFL draft. Stick. Get us. Get us prepared for the season. Let it. I want. Here's my mission, men. I want our audience to be the smartest audience when it comes to the NFL draft. And if you were following us back to October of last year or even after the combine when we started in on Something's a miss, this. This. This Shador Sanders stuff isn't right. I like. And we started. I. I felt like. I feel good. My head goes on the pillow at night feeling like, you know what? Our audience was smarter than every other other audience out there when it came to the NFL draft. And that's. That's the whole. That's my whole mission in this. And I know you share that mission with me. That's why we're doing this. Okay. I want to change the narrative about all this stuff. I want to stop coming in in. In March. The draft doesn't start in mobile. I love Yagi. It was a great tagline and for a lot. But for a lot of people it does, but it doesn't. It starts now. It starts with NFL scouts in their areas, and that's what we're doing. So we haven't tweaked our process, but we're. We're tweaking the way we're presenting it and we're even in game tweaking it. Like with Arch, I went on for like an hour and 20. You assisted me, but I was the problem.
- [08:47]
Mensch
I enabled you.
- [08:47]
Todd McShay
That's completely innocent, but I'm getting more jail time than you deservedly so.
- [08:53]
Mensch
Right.
- [08:53]
Todd McShay
So we got better. We refined it. We got down to like 50 minutes with. With Garrett Nussm provided probably more content, but we broke it up into all the position specific stuff. Mental makeup accuracy, release quickness, slash, arm strength and pocket mobility. But we went like 5, 7 minutes on each one and we felt like beholden to. It didn't feel right. So we talked to Tucker and Connor and Dan and Mark and Eduardo and we came together like, all right, how can we make it more conversational? You and I are hanging out and let's. So let's. Let's strike all these, like, parameters and things that we have to do. Let's just talk the player. We did that last. Last time out, Lenor Sellers on Monday, and it felt natural. That's how you and I talk when we're sitting there watching tape in a hotel room when we're going out to dinner. When we're on the phone talking players, that's how we talk. So we're going to do it again today. I do want to start with this because there is there, there's some housekeeping. There are those position specific traits. And I liked how we did it last time. Let's just rip off the numbers. Let's self admit when we think maybe we're too high or too low. Let's rip them off and then let's get into the player. Kate Clubnik mental makeup. And I want for. For people, the reason we do mental makeup. It's not like intelligence or even football. It's like, how do they handle all of it. We've got an intangible section for the universal traits. Okay. It's not about intangibles. It's about how much do I trust this guy?
- [10:19]
Mensch
How.
- [10:20]
Todd McShay
How is he protecting the football? How fast does he read his progressions? In critical moments in the clutch, two minutes left, gets the ball, the drill, all of it. How does he handle himself? That's what this kind of all encompasses. This mental makeup grade. It's decision making in every aspect of playing the quarterback position. Okay? One being exceptional. Outstanding. Two, grade being good. Three, average. Four, below average. Five is marginal. Like I said in the last show, it's kind of like playing golf. The lower the number, the better the score. Okay, so one is one to five. One being the best, five being the worst. Where did you have Cade with your mental makeup?
- [11:04]
Mensch
2.
- [11:05]
Todd McShay
I want 1.5. So we're in the same neighborhood. Not there yet, but see a lot of promising things.
- [11:11]
Mensch
This is all new to me, the zero point fives. I feel like I'm getting Kuipered here with the draft trades in, in the mock drafts, man.
- [11:17]
Todd McShay
Yeah, we've been doing this forever. Forever.
- [11:20]
Mensch
If I had sent you a 0.5 in 2017, you would have called me immediately.
- [11:25]
Todd McShay
I would have suspended you.
- [11:26]
Mensch
You were like, bro, we don't do 0.5s. There's no such thing as a 0.5.
- [11:30]
Todd McShay
Get off the fence. And I'm not saying you're allowed to do them yet either. I'll let you know.
- [11:36]
Mensch
Yeah, I know. I'm still on probation apparently. Go ahead.
- [11:40]
Todd McShay
Accuracy one to five. One being best, five being the worst. Where do you. Where do you fall on Club Nick? Accuracy 2, 1.5. I don't know that I've given out a grade in the last month that doesn't have a 0.5, but honestly.
- [11:58]
Mensch
Here we go.
- [11:59]
Todd McShay
Honestly, twos. 2's a better number. There's a better number. There was some interesting stuff I want to get to some ups and downs and, and some research I did to try to figure out if, if, if, if it like health factored into it as well. Release, release, arm strength. What'd you have?
- [12:18]
Mensch
What'd you give him?
- [12:20]
Todd McShay
1.5.
- [12:20]
Mensch
I wanna, I wanna give him 1.5.
- [12:23]
Todd McShay
I think.
- [12:23]
Mensch
Yes, I gave him a 2. Yes, I did too. All right. I gave him a two and I was like, I want a reason to give me. Honestly, if you're gonna give me for it. I thought you might think it was too high.
- [12:33]
Todd McShay
Pocket mobility. One one to five. One being the best, five being the worst.
- [12:39]
Mensch
I gave him a three. I feel like, really, I, I feel like it's a 2. I feel like it's a 2.
- [12:45]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it's a 2. I want, I want 1.5. Again.
- [12:49]
Mensch
We have to. I watched Sellers right before him and I think that, that maybe swayed it a little too much.
- [12:55]
Todd McShay
I was too harsh on Sellers. He should have been a 1. I gave him a 1.5. I can't, I can't sleep at night knowing that I have the same number for Club Nick and Sellers. So I'm going right. I think a fair assessment is Sellers is closer to one than he is two and Club Nick is closer to two than he is one. So it's a one, it's a one.
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Mensch
I think three is a little harsh. Yeah.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. Interesting. All right, so we get some stuff to work through here.
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Mensch
Yeah, let's. Let's hit it.
- [13:28]
Todd McShay
I also liked. You know what? My sweet. My sweet girl there always says, let Mensch talk. And it worked. I like the way he worked and I can kind of react to, to your thoughts. So why don't you get us started on. On club.
- [13:43]
Mensch
So look, let's look at the season and, and I was very vocal during the year about. I didn't think Clemson played anyone and Club Nick had some really good tape. But I was still. There was a big part of it for me was I like, who's he played like? I just don't know who he's played. They played Georgia and they weren't ready. Clemson wasn't ready as a team. I think, I think that's not all in Club Nick. I don't think that Clemson team was ready for that Georgia team and it showed up. I mean, they, they got handled. It was a 31 point blowout. So that was the only team they really played until you get to the South Carolina game. Really? That I thought was A significant test for that team as talented as is and they lost to South Carolina by three. But I love the way club Nick played in that game. And by the way, he threw a game ending interception in field goal range. I understand that. I understand that the ball you can't hit, it went off the running back's hands, but it was behind the running back. It's got to be a better ball. I understand all that, but I love the way he played and then the way he played against smu. I love the way he played in that game. He had sub 60% completion percentage in that game. I don't care. I thought he was awesome. Four touchdowns. He played great. And I thought he played pretty well against Texas too. And I thought that Texas team, that defense, when you look at how well that defense played late in the year for Texas or really the whole year, I thought Kubnick played well in that game. So yeah, I thought he had a good year overall going into that. I mean, look at this kid. Had ended the year with a third 36 touchdown to six interception ratio. He got away with some things all quarterbacks do. But that's an impressive number, man, to throw for 36 touchdowns and only six interceptions. I mean that stands out as a stat. I'm not a huge analytics guy. I'm not a big numbers guy. That's some, that's one of those ones you can't ignore. I thought overall he had a really good year and then the way he finished was super encouraging me and kind of, kind of shut the big guy up a little bit about who they had played because when they finally got to it, he didn't, he didn't excel necessarily. I. He didn't. He could have played better at times, I guess is the way I want to say it. But he played pretty damn well.
- [15:50]
Todd McShay
I, I liked him a lot on TV last fall and I saw the improvement on tv. I liked him a lot more on tape. Yeah, even that Georgia game, man, even that Georgia game, he, he played well. Like that first quarter throw327, like the hell of a throw.
- [16:10]
Mensch
He made some plays, dropping the ball.
- [16:13]
Todd McShay
In beautifully in the sideline. I thought like in the third quarter there's a play that jumped out, he's scrambling, scrambling again, no protection, gets outside the pocket, starts directing his target. You could see the experience, especially coming off of Lenora Sellers and even Nussmeier. And even Nussmeier, but especially off of Sellers. Okay. Because Nussmeier's been around five years, just one as a starter. Sellers is still a pup, but you could see the experience in some of the stuff, right? Game experience, life experience. You could just see the, the difference in experience. I thought the Georgia game wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. North Carolina State. I thought he was really good, like running threat, pulled the option. It was like 13:45, first quarter early in the game. Runs for 55 yards. Touchdown.
- [17:11]
Mensch
How about when he's. He's. There was the. I think it was a 10th offensive play for Clemson where he's looking left, doesn't like it. The linebacker blitzes the A gap late. He senses it, spins out to his right and throws a 31 yard touchdown pass. Think that was in that game? No. Yeah. That was NC State. Unbelievable play on the. The way he sensed the pressure, the way he got away from. He's looking left. He's not. I don't even know if he must have just seen it out of the corner of his eye and then to go move to your right and. And throw a great to Antonio Williams. Great ball. Touchdown. 31 yards. I was like, wow, that is a big time play.
- [17:50]
Todd McShay
There were parts of his tape. Here's what I'm. Let's just get into it. Okay. I think he thrives in chaos.
- [17:59]
Mensch
Okay.
- [17:59]
Todd McShay
I think he. And, and that's a, that's a very important trait. I think he's great. When the initial play breaks down, when he's got to climb the pocket, when he's got a side step, it almost like, it's like soothing to him, which is. I love that. I loved it in Jackson dart. I underrated it in Bo Nix.
- [18:20]
Mensch
Right.
- [18:21]
Todd McShay
I see a lot of Bo Nicks in this kid.
- [18:23]
Mensch
Wow.
- [18:24]
Todd McShay
I see a lot of Bo Nicks in Kate Clubnik.
- [18:28]
Mensch
That's interesting. What do you like, how do you feel about his accuracy when he's making off platform throws? I feel like it suffers a little bit. That was the one thing I had.
- [18:38]
Todd McShay
There were some. There were some.
- [18:39]
Mensch
And it happens to every quarterback. Don't get me wrong. It happens to every quarterback and I know he. There he. Three is way too high. I mean the more we talk about it, three is too high. He, he can move around the pocket, he can extend, he makes plays. I get all that. He can scramble, babe.
- [18:54]
Todd McShay
He feeds on it. He feeds on it.
- [18:57]
Mensch
I actually think what would you give.
- [19:00]
Todd McShay
Jackson dart right now as a pocket mobility too right? Yeah, that's what he is.
- [19:05]
Mensch
I think Jackson darts more.
- [19:07]
Todd McShay
What about Bo Nix?
- [19:09]
Mensch
I don't know. I probably gave him a three, but probably should have been a two I listen, I, I like him. I, I actually, I also think both.
- [19:21]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And here's the thing. I, I, the other thing is they both have elastic arms. Bo Nixon and him watch his arm. Like, like how loose and the ball, it has more energy than it looks. And I said the same thing about Bowen. I didn't.
- [19:40]
Mensch
And.
- [19:42]
Todd McShay
And I put too much emphasis on all the problems at Auburn and not enough on the development at Oregon. I don't ever think Bo Nicks is going to be exceptional. I don't. I think he's in the perfect place. I think he's gonna have ups and downs like he did as a rookie. They're not going to be as extreme as he gets older. But I, I, I absolutely undervalued Bo Nix. Never going to be Mahomes, never going to be Josh Allen, never going to be Lamar. He's never going to be one of the, that top, top tier.
- [20:12]
Mensch
All right, I gotta stop you right here because this is, this is, we're getting into it now about what you're looking for in quarterbacks. And you're talking about how you like B. Knicks and you like that. So on the spot right now. Can the Denver Broncos win a Super bowl with B. Knicks? And if not, what are we doing? You could say all these nice things about, about B. Knicks, but you're going out to get quarterbacks to continue.
- [20:40]
Todd McShay
Can they or do I think they will?
- [20:46]
Mensch
I don't care.
- [20:47]
Todd McShay
Answer one of them, whatever one can they? Yeah, yeah, they can. If their defense continues to get better. They had a hell of a draft this year. They've got more weapons around him. I'm not saying it's going to be this year, but the next couple years. Can they make a run to the Super Bowl? Like can they do I, can they? Yeah, they can. Okay. Got a great coach. He's going to get the most out of Bo. Will they not with the quarterbacks in this league right now, man.
- [21:17]
Mensch
Josh Allen doesn't have one, man. No, I know Josh Allen doesn't have one. So let me ask you this. Are you now you like. So you, you see a lot of Bo Nixon, him. Is that, is that right now in the process? Again, let's keep this all in perspective. Always important to do that. It's June. It is June. We haven't played the last season. I mean, we haven't played. There's a lot of football to play. Is that how you feel about Club Nick? That he's a guy that can come in and be really good for your team.
- [21:44]
Todd McShay
I hear you. All I'm saying, when I'm saying Bo Nicks, like, look at the size. Look at the mobility.
- [21:49]
Mensch
I hear you.
- [21:50]
Todd McShay
Look at the elastic arm.
- [21:51]
Mensch
Great.
- [21:52]
Todd McShay
Look at, look at kind of the chaos pressure stuff. And, and Cade, Cade's doing. See, here's the thing with Cade and I wrote this in the scouting report. McShade, the McShay report. Google it. Please subscribe. What are we doing? 200,000.
- [22:06]
Mensch
It is worth it.
- [22:07]
Todd McShay
It's starting to piss me off. 200,000 people watching us on YouTube draft night and we got like 15,000 subscribers. I wanted at 100,000. So let's go. Just Google it. Subscribe for free for now. Let me, let me tickle you a little bit before I, before I go, before I make a move on you. I love when I make you.
- [22:31]
Mensch
Where are we? We don't know where we are anymore.
- [22:33]
Todd McShay
Exactly. But. So Cade's still in his development pro. He's still in that office. Okay, I'm not saying this. I'm not saying the ceiling is Bo Nicks. I'm just saying when I watch him, I see a lot of the same stuff, but he's, he's coming off. He doesn't have the same experience that that Bo did leaving Auburn. Beau played a lot more ball there. Both finished at the time with the most starts in college football history in fbs. So my point is with more like if he's already here and you mentioned this and we're not big stats people, but the, but protecting the football. And here's the other thing. He only got sacked 23 times in 14 games. We just on Monday talked about Lenora Sellers 33 times in 12 games. Okay. So like I've got this guy who's really athletic, thrives in chaos. Stronger. Whether you think he's a two arm or I think he's a 1.5. Whatever it is, it's a, it's a plus arm. It's not a, it's not we can get by or it's. He's got to overcome It's a plus arm with the creativity, the mobility, the running element. And he's protecting the football and he's not taking negative plays. I like this guy.
- [23:53]
Mensch
I agree with you. I am going to be the over the top comp on this guy on this show.
- [23:58]
Todd McShay
Okay.
- [23:58]
Mensch
I went with Josh Allen for Lenora Sellers. So I'm going to go with irresponsible. Totally irresponsible. Totally irresponsible. But it's, it's Fun to talk about.
- [24:08]
Todd McShay
All right.
- [24:09]
Mensch
Yeah, I, I'm gonna go with another Texas.
- [24:11]
Todd McShay
I went with Jalen Hurts which seems like reasonable.
- [24:15]
Mensch
Who's by the way an outstanding quarterback coming up off a Super Bowl.
- [24:18]
Todd McShay
Super Bowl. Yeah.
- [24:21]
Mensch
I went Josh Allen.
- [24:22]
Todd McShay
You gotta raise the. Yeah.
- [24:24]
Mensch
Look I have, I look, I'm not afraid to say it. I have a lot to make up to the fans of the Clemson football program. So I'm just gonna go in. It's. See if you can pick up on who this guy is. Similar frames both Texas high school football legends.
- [24:40]
Todd McShay
Colton.
- [24:40]
Mensch
I don't. Nope. Oh my God. I'm going over the top because great is for what he was.
- [24:46]
Todd McShay
Okay, keep going, keep going. Give me quite.
- [24:48]
Mensch
Doesn't have quite have the arm strength as the guy I would comp him to. But still I think could do some of the same things. He's an old veteran man.
- [25:00]
Todd McShay
Oh, I was gonna say Kyler Murray. That was gonna be ridiculous. No because he was a Texas high school yeah to Cliff Kingsbury and he was like I think he's Cliff knows Texas high school football, man. He was like, I think he might have been the best ever.
- [25:16]
Mensch
On the, on the the Murray comp. Murray and Clubnick both went undefeated in their last two years playing Texas football and both won state titles in their last two years.
- [25:27]
Todd McShay
You're going Stafford.
- [25:29]
Mensch
I love Matt Stafford by the way. Just so Clemson fans understand this. I, I, if you, if he can be underrated. I'm not sure he can be.
- [25:38]
Todd McShay
I totally agree.
- [25:40]
Mensch
I totally, I think he, I mean it. Give me Matt. Matt Stafford over Aaron Rodgers. Like Matt Stafford is I think a hell of a quarterback. I think that's, I think that's the absolute ceiling. I don't think he has the same kind of arm talent.
- [25:53]
Todd McShay
That staffer's been one of the best. Like five, six. We could do a list.
- [25:56]
Mensch
Yes.
- [25:56]
Todd McShay
But like five, he's in the, he's in the bottom of that like elite, elite tier.
- [26:01]
Mensch
If he's not standing right. If he's not in Detroit for as long as he was in that situation. Now Detroit's obviously different when he was.
- [26:07]
Todd McShay
Totally different vibe, different career.
- [26:09]
Mensch
Right. That's, I see those things because I think that Stafford's mobility earlier in his career was a little underrated. I think both Stafford and Clubnik are very tough and then I look at how they are. I think they're both very smart. I think that club Nick's gonna have to adjust to, you know, playing in a pro style offense and all of those things. But When I'm watching him get to his third read and making a tough throw on that third read. And also this is one of the things I love about Klebnick. One of the things I love. You want to talk about confidence in a quarterback. He makes throws that are all confidence, all confidence. He knows he has the arm strength to get there. He knows he has the window as long as he gets out of time. And he knows he's got to get it.
- [26:53]
Todd McShay
I'm just pause, pause, pause. I'm now. And you do this to me every once in a while. You're. You're confusing me. I wrote you which I. Which I care more. No offense, audience and everyone listen. But like right now I need to. I need to sort out what men is doing before I try to help you sort it out. So you have shitty grades on him for the position specific.
- [27:18]
Mensch
No, I didn't. I gave him two. All twos.
- [27:22]
Todd McShay
There was a three in there.
- [27:23]
Mensch
The three was pocket mobility. I walked it back. I walked it back immediately.
- [27:28]
Todd McShay
I gave him established you can do that.
- [27:30]
Mensch
We established.
- [27:30]
Todd McShay
I gave him 1.5, 1.5. 1.5, 1.5. And I said he reminds me a lot of Bo Nicks who has drafted 12th overall.
- [27:38]
Mensch
Right.
- [27:39]
Todd McShay
And has outplayed 12th overall. And I've self admitted I was over. But, but I, but, but to your point, I don't think Bo's ever gonna be in the top tier and it's gonna be hard for him to even maybe get in that second tier.
- [27:53]
Mensch
Are you get.
- [27:54]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [27:54]
Mensch
So what I was doing was pinning you down for the Clemson faithful as a guy that thinks the Kate club. Nick's Bo Nicks and presenting myself as a guy who thinks that Kate Clubnik is Matt Stafford.
- [28:06]
Todd McShay
So I want. I'm. I'm now gonna pin you down, throw Arch Manning out because he. He's not in 2026 class. We don't have any real work on him yet. I shouldn't say there's not enough of a catalog. We have done Garrett Nussmeier, Lenora Sellers.
- [28:27]
Mensch
Yes.
- [28:27]
Todd McShay
And now we're done with the tape on Club Nick and we're sorting it out right here. Even though you're making a mess of.
- [28:32]
Mensch
It, how I just wanted you out.
- [28:35]
Todd McShay
Of all over the place. No. So I, I want you to agree with you.
- [28:39]
Mensch
I never agree with you about the. The Knicks thing. I just wanted to hear where you were.
- [28:44]
Todd McShay
I want you to plant a flag if you had to give a preseason grade. And obviously, like we're talking about Lenores has so much developing to do. We want him in the 2027 draft. I think we both agree he's the most physically gifted of the quarterbacks we've evaluated so far, right?
- [28:59]
Mensch
Yep.
- [29:00]
Todd McShay
Nussmeier, we we covered head to toe and Nussmeier was like to me, I love his game, but I don't think he's even as I love his game, but I recognize I don't. I think he's a touch below and I think he's sudden. I think he's got a solid to good. I think he's got a good arm. Like I think he's the most accurate of these three. Nussmeyer's more accurate than Sellers, definitely. And Nussmeyer's more accurate than Clubnick.
- [29:34]
D
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- [31:21]
Todd McShay
If you had to turn over to me as we've done 25 years in a row, couple several times a year when you send over to me your grades and rankings right now, are you ranking Club Nick ahead? Where are you, where are you with those three Sellers?
- [31:40]
Mensch
Club Nick Nussmeier and Sellers is tough because it's a big time projection.
- [31:46]
Todd McShay
I more wanted to know him versus Nussmeier because I think they'll both be in the 2026 draft. I'm not sure on Sellers.
- [31:51]
Mensch
Right. Yeah, I haven't had. I haven't ahead of Nussmeier. I do. And I think he's going to absolutely take off this year too. I think that you look at what Kyle Kubnick finished last year and then you look at Antonio Williams, Brian, Brian Wesco Jr. And TJ Moore all going back and those receivers and by the way, I know we're going to talk about them later, but some of those routes they were running, man, and some of the speed they were showing. When you're just watching Club Mixtape and you're watching those receivers running around, I'm like, oh boy, those guys. I mean there is talent, talent in that receiving room. And I think that sets up, sets up well for clubnick to continue to build on that momentum, continue to build on his confidence. He's one of those guys that I think could have a monster year. And we're sitting at the end of the year and being like, wow, he really, it. The light, it really came on for him.
- [32:39]
Todd McShay
I remember Lee fitting was a, was a high ranking executive, great producer. He was right. The, the, the first producer that I know of with game day. I'm not sure if he took the baton or not. And so I worked with him a long time, A lot of respect for him in terms of like producing and as an executive. But spend a lot of time talking ball with him and you know, it would be like me and Herb street and Fowler and he would be there, the whole group. But he is. His kids are huge Clemson fans. I can't remember if one of them went there. So he would always ask me about Clemson prospects. And I remember after the games we talked about with Clemson texting Lee be like, get DJ out of here. No offense, but offense. This is the guy.
- [33:26]
Mensch
I think that's just fair. That's just honest about what this is.
- [33:29]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So my point in this was. And he, Lee has since got onto WWE and. But my point in this is then like I remember 2023, my last year with ESPN being like, oh God. You know, like it takes like I'm yeah. Really hoping to see more development. You know, it's supposed to Be like the, the tape studier and the evaluator guy. But I think, you know, I think there's a lot more there. I'm, I'm, I'm still holding on, even though he hasn't given me enough to, like, really. And then this past year, obviously he's working at WWE and we text a little bit, but we haven't had the subject. For some reason, it came in my head, like, if I were to. I'm going to shoot him a text and be like, hey, because when I was done with this tape, like, 2025 is Clemson's year, but it's, It's Cade's year.
- [34:29]
Mensch
Yeah, I'm telling you, I agree, man. I agree.
- [34:33]
Todd McShay
And I think Sellers is more talented, and I think Nussmeier is a damn good quarterback. And if I'm being honest, I think right now I, I've got him neck and neck. But I would, I would give Club Club Nick a slight edge over Nussmeier. And, and, and for people who don't know or maybe didn't watch that episode, you could check the McShay show on, on YouTube or just go to, you know, go to Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast and just go back and watch it. Watch or listen to the Nussmeyer show just a couple weeks ago. I love them. I think. I think Nussmeier is going to be a great quarterback. And I'm like, you, man. I'm getting excited about this quarterback class. We haven't done Drew Aller yet. We haven't done a couple other guys that could up the board. And there's always one guy that we're. We probably won't even get to. All of a sudden, four weeks into the season, we're like, wait, we better. We better dive in quick. I think this is his year. Here's the thing with him, with, With Cade, for me, Sellers is so very clearly a more dynamic athlete and explosive and all that stuff. Club Nick right now is a more functional. Is more functional with his mobility in the pocket. I see the climbing, I see the sliding. I see. I want you to hear this closely. It's so critical with quarterbacks, man. It is like, beyond sensing pressure and not panicking. Jackson Dart. You want to know why I loved him? And I told you 20 times, and I'll remind you right now, it was that 147 play clip reel or have 100. Yeah. Clip reel of the. Versus pressure. Because I say I saw the same stuff I saw out of Josh Allen wasn't as Big. Didn't have the arm, but I saw that all of them. When. If you go back and you watch Mahomes, if you watch like all the great ones, the really good ones, when it gets crazy around them, it's cool. I'm good. No, no problem. It. Let's advance. Advance this play. Advance the off like. And I saw that in this kid. I call him a kid. I hope he doesn't take offense to it, but he's got an elastic arm. He's functional in terms of his mobility. He climbs the pocket when he should climb. He slides when it's interior. And he's always. And I hate when I hear he climbs the pocket and he keeps his eyes down the feet like, great. But does he. Is he. Is he seeing the picture? And then I watch and then I watch. There was. There was one and. And I. I say this all. There are a couple things that are concerning. Okay. I don't think he can throw with anticipation. I wrote 49 seconds left second quarter. Love seeing this anticipation on the speed out route. What's to the left?
- [37:35]
Mensch
Which game is this?
- [37:35]
Todd McShay
You know, sorry. Florida State.
- [37:37]
Mensch
Okay.
- [37:38]
Todd McShay
Rips it early. Perfect placement along. It wasn't anything that jumped out. If you didn't write a note about it, like, I, I wouldn't. You notice that play. But it was. It's in there. He got the ball out before the receiver broke. It was. Everything was on time. Perfect placement along the sideline. Picked up 12 next play. Right. But I want to see more of that and not just because he's. He. I saw four or five more of those after that one. And so he's really good at throwing the speed out to the left side. But I want to see it with more of the throws. Now. I did see it a lot with him moving around, throwing receivers open, leading them on, on crossers posts, different things like that. But I think he, he has a habit of wanting to see the receiver maybe open coming back to him or on. On. On horizontal cutting routes like cutting in, cutting out, cutting or comebacks or curls. Wants to see that number flash. And I know that because it's. It's a, it's a binky. It's a safety blanket. You know what I mean?
- [38:44]
Mensch
Yeah. Used to buying time when you're. Your guys. Used to buying time, you. You're like, I can. I can buy enough time to see this a little clearer.
- [38:52]
Todd McShay
Nailed it. And as I was six one, he's six two. When I'm standing behind you, people don't see me. Mensch and you were a guard or you were a guard. You know what I mean? But my point is, you want to. It's the great ones that learn to trust and, you know, so I want to see more of that. I, I know it's in there. I want to see that, that next step in his development this year. Okay.
- [39:21]
Mensch
Can I tell you one of my favorite throws he made? And it's one of those throws again that maybe you're not really paying attention. You're like, you didn't see much in it. He had an RPO touchdown against Wake forest inside the 10 yard line where his receiver breaks over the middle and you might look and be like, oh, that doesn't look like it's that accurate. And he throws it on the hip, the back hip of the receiver. And if you watch the play, it is the only place that ball can go. Man, if he throws, if he leads the receiver, that receiver's going to the hospital. That receiver is going to get cleared out by the. I don't know if it's a linebacker or a safety, but someone was sitting on it right in the middle of the field. If he throws it too far ahead, it's going to get picked off and he puts it right back on the back hip of the receiver who catches it, falls in the end zone untouched. Touchdown. And by the way, there was, there was a defender right in his face right away. Had to be quick, had to get the ball out and the ball placement again, it's not like something where you're looking at be like, oh, well, it was in front of him or he didn't put it in the numbers. It was right where the ball had to be.
- [40:20]
Todd McShay
Here's the other thing that, that I'm still, I'm still to this moment scratching my head on a little bit. He had a weird little stretch in the middle of the season where I didn't think he was as, as accurate as I did. Even early on against Georgia when the numbers weren't great and, and then late in the season and I'll come back to Pittsburgh in a minute, but there was this stretch and I went back and looked and I'm like, did something contribute to. He just looked a little different with his, just with his accuracy, the wake, he. So I went back and look, he got knocked out of the, the Florida State game. He got quote unquote shaken up, whatever that is. Okay, but then the next game was Wake forest completely like 73% of his throws had that great throw. But then the game after that was Virginia. And he started that gate like he had a nicely placed back shoulder fade right sideline early in the first. Early in the game, just a few minutes later. Pretty wild. Do you remember the. Against Virginia. Rolled to his right shortly, then all the way across the field, right. He. It was against Virginia. It was 10 minutes left in the first quarter. He had this wild, like cross field scramble where he kind of rolled to his right a little bit. It wasn't there. And he was kind of like. And he rolled all the way back across the field to his left and then they kind of opened up his hips and through. It wasn't a great throw. He just all. But he. He extended it and the receiver was wide open and he had. It was a difficult off balance, you know, ripping your hips back open. Sprinting full speed after 40 yards of sprinting back to his left. But it was just. All you had to do was lay it in there.
- [42:08]
Mensch
I thought you might have been talking about. The Virginia pick was by far the most baffling.
- [42:13]
Todd McShay
So start, you know, good. It started late in that first quarter. Five seconds left. Really bad interception. I was.
- [42:23]
Mensch
I watched two guys could have picked that pass off eight times.
- [42:26]
Todd McShay
Bud. I don't know what he was seeing. I don't know what he was thinking.
- [42:31]
Mensch
Four defenders in the area.
- [42:32]
Todd McShay
The throw wasn't as bad as the decision, but. But it was bad too. Complete. And I wrote completely out of character compared to the rest of the tape.
- [42:42]
Mensch
Never saw a play like it again.
- [42:43]
Todd McShay
Okay, but don't disagree. Yes, it was the worst play of his entire 237. You know, key play, real. But then second quarter, 925. Badly overshoots a tight end who's wide open in the back of the end zone. What the was that? What was that?
- [43:02]
Mensch
The ball hit the. The padding. You actually saw the ball like bounce back the way the. The way the velocity of the ball hitting the. At the back of the end zone. Yeah.
- [43:14]
Todd McShay
And then so I. So I. That's when I went back and looked. I'm like, why? What was so different there? And those were just two there. There were. There were several other errand throws. I said a couple ugly mistakes. Handful. Well, not like three or four. Like. Like seven or eight really errant throws. And I just wrote those two down to remind myself. And I just like head scratcher. Like, I don't. I don't know. Because it didn't match up with the rest of the tape. Louisville, he misses a couple easy shots early in the game. Really easy throws. Just misses that Throw to the flat.
- [43:50]
Mensch
That should have been picked. Yep.
- [43:51]
Todd McShay
Yes, yes, yes, yes. But then he kind of got in the like late in the first quarter he started to get back in rhythm. So I'm like, okay. I don't know if it was a confidence issue after that one mistake. I don't know if it was something lingering from that Florida State game. I don't know if there was something else that happened in game against Virginia. They carried over a little bit in Louisville. I don't know. Dabo sure as hell ain't gonna tell us. I don't know.
- [44:20]
Mensch
I'm on his good side now.
- [44:21]
Todd McShay
And then Louisville is like 103 on my reel. I don't, I don't write the time stamp down but, but another miss, completely overshot in the middle. And then Virginia Tech, he only completed like 58% of his throw. It was like this four game stretch, like three and a half game stretch.
- [44:38]
Mensch
47.1 in the 47.1.
- [44:42]
Todd McShay
So it was this three and a half game stretch from the second half of, of Virginia. They rolled Virginia meanwhile. So if people are listening, like what are you talking about, McShady? We, we beat them by 20, 26 point. Whatever the number was, it was over 20.
- [44:58]
Mensch
That's not what comes the fans sound like, by the way. They're very intelligent, good people.
- [45:02]
Todd McShay
I know, I know. I live with one. I live with three of them actually.
- [45:07]
Mensch
I would never say such things about Clemson fans.
- [45:12]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Marissa, AJ and Mia are, are going to listen to this. Only this show. I'm sure this summer better things to do. But, but you're right.
- [45:21]
Mensch
He had that stretch.
- [45:22]
Todd McShay
Get that stretch. Then the, then the Pittsburgh game comes and he's flat out phenomenal. Wasn't perfect, but he is flat out phenomenal.
- [45:30]
Mensch
Yep.
- [45:31]
Todd McShay
And then he was kind of back. So like, so we talked about this with Arch. Right. There's steps in the process. The first step was getting out there and showed he's. Yeah, he's got something. He can be the Clemson quarterback. The second step was failure for him. And they're all different steps for different quarterbacks. They truly are. Like, who knew Jaylen Herz got benched at halftime in a national championship game and was sent off the pasture. Kind of got a really nice soft landing spot with Lincoln Riley, the quarterback whisperer. They didn't, they didn't win the way that the previous quarterbacks did. But he still was a Heisman finalist and had a really good year. And then, then was a third round pick and was a third round Pick behind a quarterback that had just been drafted a couple years early. And Carson Wentz at number two overall and had led his team to a Super Bowl. Okay, so everyone's got different steps in the process. And so step two for him was some failure and having to look in the mirror and kind of new, new coaching and new support staff and a young support staff. Okay. In terms of his, his weapons, step three was I'm back here I am. But there were some mid season bumps in the road and it was a tough loss against short. Like there were some stuff to overcome. But this now we're iron sharpening iron. He's going to be able to rely on all this. I was awesome as a true freshman in my moments. I really didn't have a good second year. I was really good in 2024. But I, but there were still bumps in the road. Now as I talked about now teams are coming back and now in the ACC and all the opponents you play, you've, you've now faced, faced them and you faced the best of him. And so now they're going to know his tendencies. How does he. He's already shown week to week he can. Like we talked about with Arch, Arch's next step is full time starter. All the pressures that come with it, week to week preparation in game adjustments, week to week adjustments, all that stuff. He's proven that he's the next step. The next step is and I said for Archer, 2025 season is going to be that this past year for club Nick, the first time through second year is rinse, repeat, refine. That's where he is right now for club Nick he's rinse that season for all the goods and the bad, repeat it against defenses that are ready for you. And if he can refine it Mench with that cast that's coming back with those young guys who are now a year older with that defense is going to be real, you know, they can make an awesome run and he has got a chance to be QB1 in 2026.
- [48:26]
Mensch
Yeah, I really hate the rinse, repeat, refined line because it's so damn good. It's a little annoying that you came up with that.
- [48:33]
Todd McShay
Thank you.
- [48:35]
Mensch
I mean, I guess that's a thank you.
- [48:38]
Todd McShay
So I kind of feel like at the end of the day, even though we were like you were throwing punches in one direction, I was throwing punches in the other direction, we were fighting for the same thing. Cade Club Nick is, is legit Cade Clubnik. Whether it's somewhere between Bo Nix and Matthew Stafford has got a chance to be a damn good starting quarterback in the league. Now it's about him making that next step. And, and forget about QB1. Like I, if you want to make me throw up to start, like QB1, the Nussmeier September, it's QB1. I had him in June. I had him last September. I, I had him like in 2022. You hadn't seen him play. He was a backup. I don't care about QB1. I, I don't care until like, like we're putting together mock drafts. I care about where is he in the process, what can he become? And I think we're both agreeing. While he doesn't have Lenor Sellers level, God given ability, he's got a lot of the things that you look for, including. And especially that trait that you can't quite coach. That calm when everything's a mess around him. That calm to handle those moments. And that's going to bring him a long way. I don't know why I get so worked up when we do this stuff, man. It's fun, it's good. Everyone enjoyed it.
- [50:02]
Mensch
I like me now, Clemson fans. How you like me now?
- [50:05]
Todd McShay
There he is. There he is. That's my mensch trying to go to a Clemson game this year. I think we were talking about as a family going to Clemson, Florida State. I gotta call my man Kelly down there just got the GM job.
- [50:20]
Mensch
You're watching the action show. I mean, think about it, man.
- [50:25]
Todd McShay
I'll do it from, from, from the Bohemian Hotel in Greenville. How about that?
- [50:30]
Mensch
All right. All right.
- [50:32]
Todd McShay
Maybe I'll get you down there. All right.
- [50:34]
Mensch
We'll see if it's safe first. See if it's.
- [50:36]
Todd McShay
I don't even know where. I don't even know where we're going next week. Hey, at McShay 13. Who's next at McShade 13? I'm on threads now. Like a ma.
- [50:46]
Mensch
Is that, is that good? I don't even know what that is.
- [50:48]
Todd McShay
Talk to Marissa. Here we go. Yep. Threats. Yeah, I can get my sports stuff. I can focus is, you know, but also obviously a massive, not massive. I, I have like a massive appreciation for all the followers I've developed over the last 20, I don't even know, 15 years, whatever. It's been on. On X and Instagram and all that. So you know where to find us. You know, it's you, you good mensch. Y O U G O O D M U E N C H and we'll be updating you on what's coming next week. I. Oh, Drew Aller. Drew Aller. What am I talking about?
- [51:25]
Mensch
I am fascinated by this one.
- [51:28]
Todd McShay
Me too.
- [51:30]
Mensch
It's gonna be. It's gonna be right.
- [51:34]
Todd McShay
There's a reason why I left. I saved him for the after these other guys. I wanted to. I don't know. I don't know where I'm gonna land on it, but we'll see.
- [51:40]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [51:41]
Todd McShay
See you on Monday. Have an awesome weekend. Enjoy your summer. Thanks for have a great weekend part of this and we'll. We'll see you on the other side on Monday. Later. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support and in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.