Scouting John Mateer: Oklahoma’s New QB Is a Talented Agent of Chaos

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show – "Scouting John Mateer: Oklahoma’s New QB Is a Talented Agent of Chaos"

Episode Details:

• Title: Scouting John Mateer: Oklahoma’s New QB Is a Talented Agent of Chaos
• Release Date: June 16, 2025
• Hosts: Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr.
• Podcast: The McShay Show by The Ringer

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Introduction

In this episode of The McShay Show, longtime NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay teams up with renowned analyst Mel Kiper Jr. to delve deep into the performance and potential of John Mateer, Oklahoma’s newly transferred quarterback from Washington State. The discussion navigates through Mateer’s on-field prowess, technical challenges, and his prospects as a first-round NFL draft pick.

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Player Background and Transfer Details (06:26 - 07:26)

Todd McShay begins by providing a comprehensive background of John Mateer:

• Transfer Information: Mateer transferred from Washington State to Oklahoma, bringing along his offensive coordinator, Ben Arbuckle, aged 29.
• College Career at Washington State:
  • Duration: Three years
  • Starting Games: One year starter, capped with 12 starts in the past season.
  • Performance Stats: Completed 65% of his passes for 3,139 yards, 29 touchdowns, and only seven interceptions. Additionally, he rushed for 826 yards and scored 15 touchdowns.

Quote:

“[00:24: Todd McShay] ...studying Oklahoma quarterback John Mattier. Who's got it better than us? [Mel Kiper Jr.:] Nobody.”

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Scouting Overview and Analytical Framework (07:26 - 10:08)

Todd McShay outlines his analytical framework for evaluating Mateer, focusing on four key quarterback traits:

1. Mental Makeup (Grade: 3)
2. Accuracy (Grade: 3)
3. Arm Strength/Release (Grade: 2)
4. Pocket Mobility (Grade: 1.5)

He compares his grading system to golf scores, where a lower number indicates better performance.

Quote:

“[09:39: Todd McShay] ...for John Matier, mental makeup. What Was your grade? 1 through 5?"
“[09:42: Mel Kiper Jr.] 3.”

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Performance Analysis and Key Attributes (10:08 - 25:40)

Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr. engage in a detailed analysis of Mateer’s gameplay, highlighting both strengths and areas needing improvement:

• Arm Strength and Mechanics:
  • Mateer exhibits impressive torque and arm strength, capable of making unconventional throws (“trick shots”).
  • Inconsistencies in his throwing mechanics, especially when under pressure or off-balance, are noted.

Quote:

“[12:07: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...there is no throw he can't make. He makes throws where you think you have him, you have him dead to rights. He's off his spot.”

• Pocket Mobility and Running Threat:
  • Highly mobile quarterback with the ability to extend plays, yet sometimes oversteps, leading to missed opportunities.
  • Demonstrated exceptional running ability, making him a dual-threat on the field.

Quote:

“[10:08: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...he's a guy that can hurt you with his legs. He can get in the red zone. He can make plays with his feet in the red zone.”

• Mental Makeup and Competitiveness:
  • Mateer is described as "tough as nails" and "an unbelievably competitive" player who thrives in high-pressure, chaotic environments.
  • Shows flashes of brilliance in reading defenses and making strategic decisions.

Quote:

“[24:25: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...there are some encouraging stuff about how he reads the way defenders are... he understands he's got the steam route down the middle to the running back.”

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Challenges and Areas for Improvement (25:40 - 35:25)

The discussion shifts to Mateer’s technical shortcomings and the implications for his future career:

• Footwork and Mechanics:
  • Persistent issues with his footwork, leading to inconsistent throws and mechanical inefficiencies.
  • Examples include improper weight transfer and suboptimal throwing angles, reminiscent of quarterbacks from the "Air Raid" offenses.

Quote:

“[18:56: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...he hasn't learned that yet. There are times where his hips are... if I had tried to make that throw, I would have blown out every ligament.”

• Consistency and Trustworthiness:
  • While Mateer has shown significant improvement over the season, concerns remain about his ability to perform consistently against higher competition levels.
  • The key question is whether Mateer can "bottle up the magic" while reducing the self-generated chaos in his game.

Quote:

“[41:08: Todd McShay] ...Matier's biggest challenge is to bottle up all of that magic that I just saw on tape while dialing down the turbulence.”

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Impact of Coaching and Future Prospects (35:25 - 42:43)

Todd McShay evaluates the role of Oklahoma’s offensive coordinator, Ben Arbuckle, in Mateer’s development:

• Coaching Influence:
  • Arbuckle’s previous success with limited talent suggests a promising offensive system for Oklahoma.
  • However, there’s an ongoing debate about whether coaching will focus on winning games versus refining Mateer's mechanics for NFL readiness.

Quote:

“[40:27: Todd McShay] ...we know what he can do in that. I'd like to see him in this, but we're not going to. And that's fine too.”

• Schedule and Competition:
  • Oklahoma’s rigorous schedule, including matchups against top-tier programs like Michigan, Texas, and Alabama, presents both challenges and opportunities for Mateer to showcase his skills against elite competition.

Quote:

“[27:07: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...you got Michigan rolling into town week two. You got the Red River Shootout with Texas... that schedule's legit.”

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Conclusion and Final Assessment (42:43 - End)

Wrapping up the episode, Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr. offer their final thoughts on John Mateer’s potential:

• Draft Prospects:
  • Both analysts agree that Mateer has the talent to be a targeted first-round pick, potentially within the top 15 selections.
  • However, his success in the NFL will heavily depend on his ability to harness his strengths while mitigating his mechanical flaws.

Quote:

“[46:16: Mel Kiper Jr.] I'm comfortable with that.”

• Development Path:
  • Emphasis on the upcoming offseason for Mateer to focus on drilling his footwork and refining his mechanics.
  • The transition to Oklahoma’s system is seen as a critical period for Mateer’s growth and readiness for professional play.

Quote:

“[43:44: Mel Kiper Jr.] ...if this kid learns to reset his feet and throw with his base when he can, your arm strength rating could go up.”

Final Takeaway: John Mateer emerges as a highly talented quarterback with undeniable physical gifts and competitive drive. While his "agent of chaos" playing style presents challenges, his ability to make spectacular plays and his growth trajectory suggest a promising future if he can streamline his mechanics and maintain consistency against tougher competition.

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Upcoming Episodes & Topics:

• Next Week: Analysis of Sam Levitt from Arizona State.
• Future Topics: Breakdown of top defensive prospects, Clemson’s quarterback situation, and a mailbag segment addressing audience questions on the rookie class and more.

Join Todd and the team every Tuesday and Thursday, and don’t miss their Saturday game day reaction shows! Subscribe to The McShay Report for detailed mock drafts and exclusive draft access.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [00:24] Todd McShay: "studying Oklahoma quarterback John Mattier. Who's got it better than us?"
• [09:39] Todd McShay: "for John Matier, mental makeup. What Was your grade? 1 through 5?"
• [24:25] Mel Kiper Jr.: "there are some encouraging stuff about how he reads the way defenders are..."
• [41:08] Todd McShay: "Matier's biggest challenge is to bottle up all of that magic that I just saw on tape while dialing down the turbulence."
• [46:16] Mel Kiper Jr.: "I'm comfortable with that."

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Supporting Resources:

• Full 1st Round Coverage: Watch Live
• Subscribe to The McShay Report: mcshay-report.beehiiv.com/subscribe
• Follow the Show on YouTube and Spotify: Search for The McShay Show and hit subscribe/follow for updates.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on a provided transcript and aims to capture the essence of the discussions between Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr. for informational purposes.

Transcript

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[Todd McShay]

The sun is out, the beaches are getting packed, the tee times are filling up. And here we are grinding it out in the film room studying Oklahoma quarterback John Mattier. Who's got it better than us?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Nobody.

[Todd McShay]

There he is, the big Fella in just 311 days until the NFL draft. Mensch. You good? I'm good, man. All right. Let's have it. Kind of catch my breath, man. John Matier.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Roller coaster, huh?

[Todd McShay]

Whoa, that cardiac arrest. Watching his tape.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I love him.

[Todd McShay]

I know. A lot of fun. If you've been with us throughout this summer, we appreciate you joining us, men. Tell them how they can continue to support us because it's critical and we're doing our thing. But we can't do it without the help of the audience.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Go to YouTube, check out the McShay Show. Hit the subscribe button. Go to Spotify, hit the follow button. He's at McShay 13. I'm at you, Goodmensch. M U E N C H and please consider subscribing to the McShay report. A lot of good stuff, by the way. Yo, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have to go back and look at this.

[Todd McShay]

Okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think I can tell how excited you are about or intrigued you are about a quarterback prospect with the amount of plays included in the McShay report because I didn't count them. But There was a lot of John Matiere plays, man. It seemed like you're like, well, look at this. Well, look at that, look at this, look at that.

[Todd McShay]

And I cut it. I cut it short. I cut it short. I had to stop.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I sent a note to. To. To Dan and Connor, and I was like, listen, I just. I'm gonna be blunt. Like, I. So here, here's my process real quick. Go through the tape taking down notes by play, but then also have the scouting report, like the blocks of, you know, accuracy, mental makeup. And we'll get to that in a second from Matier. Mental makeup, accuracy, arm strength and. And play pocket mobility. And so I'm kind of. I jot down notes in both spots, a specific play. I. I'll Dr. Jot down a little note, but I, I red flag the plays. Okay, so essentially I'll just. And you can. In our system, right? You can. You can red flag a play. So I'll red flag it and then do like a positive or negative. Just so I, I know, like, kind of what I'm. What I'm going back to. And then when I'm done with that process, I'll go back and If I have 30, 40 plays that are red flagged, I'll go back and watch those plays. Because, like, what's different? I'm making, like the scouting report is a scouting report. And yes, like, sometimes I have to tailor it a little bit to explain it. Like, I'm not turning it into a gm like an NFL scout. I have to kind of explain the language a little bit more, which is, you know, we've been doing that for 20 something years, so that. That's normal. And the same is true for when. If, if you've the McShay report, by the way, if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. You can subscribe for free. You. You also can, you know, throw in a little scratch and, and get every. Every bit that we have. I think it's a very reasonable price. We go year round and, and, and we're. We're going through the scouting reports this summer and then we'll get into the. Some, you know, the fun stuff like the updated mock draft in August and, And all. And the appropriately early mock draft, and we'll get through position rankings and. And, you know, deeper dive and get everyone ready for the season. Throughout the season, we'll have it. Then when we get into the draft, that's our sweet spot and we, we roll. But when I'm doing those plays, I go and and flag them. Right, right. So I'm going back yesterday, which is Sunday. Happy Father's Day, by the way.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Happy Father's Day.

[Todd McShay]

Thank you, sir. And. And I'm. I'm sitting there and, like, the kids are running around and we're doing stuff. And it's Mia's birthday, too, so it's like, oh, wow. Yeah, it's like. So I'm trying to celebrate her, all that stuff, and. And I'm finding myself that I'm, like, distracted. I've already got, like, I don't know, 50 or so plays into Conor and Dan. Finally I was like, here's the deal, guys. Like, I've got, like another 50 or so red flag from the rest of the season. I got through Boise State. I'm like, you know what? I'm out.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So funny you bring that up. That's going to come up later. Keep going.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I'm out because it's Father's Day, It's Mia's birthday, and it's June for an evaluation that we're going to talk about in April. So, like, every once in a while, you got to be like, all right, I'm going to save myself. I'm going to save my kids. I'm going to save the. The reader. Like, they don't need 100 plays talking about the same Stu off. So that's. That's why it was. It was. It stopped at Boise State.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

By the way, Boise State was September 28th. That's how far you got before you were like, man, you. You had so many plays at that point. And I was the same. There was a point when I got to the point where I was like, man, I know it's. We're still in September, but I've seen this enough. And he keeps doing all of these crazy things. And I watched all the other tape.

[Todd McShay]

It's not like I just, of course, watching Table watch the whole season.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But I just. I had to stop writing, you know, because it's not like I could just do my notes. Like, I've got to explain to the reader at least a little bit. But anyway, so that. That's the backstory on that, I guess. Let's just jump right into it.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Let's get right into it. Man, I can't wait.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. Give a little bio here. Okay. John Matier obviously started his career at Washington State. He's transferred now to Oklahoma. I thought an interesting thing, his offensive coordinator is transferred with him. Right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Ben Arbuckle, 29 years old. Ben our muckle.

[Todd McShay]

Yes. And, yeah, he's not transferring. He just took a different job. Right. But. But he's making the move with him but just for Mater his, his backdrop he started his career Washington State. He was a three year player, one year starter. Okay started 12 games this past season and he was named Team Captain 2024 this, this last year started all 12 of those games this this past year and he completed basically 65% of his throws for 3139 yards, 29 touchdowns, only seven interceptions. Also rushed for 826 yards and 15 more scores okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Hey.

[Todd McShay]

Oh yeah. So that, that gives you a little backdrop on Mater. Let's do it. Honestly like it's just become a fun game. I just like doing it where we go through our. I'd mentioned the categories before mental makeup accuracy and the third one is as we talked about it like the load to arrival the lta. It's basically from the millisecond a quarterback decides he's going to start start the delivery process to when the ball arrives at the wide receiver. It's combination Obviously the velocity on the ball is the vast majority of this grade but it's but part of it too can be if it's a long wind up delivery or you know what is that process. So we call it the the release slash arm strength and then the final one is pocket mobility. It's a combination of the kind of the poise and the movement inside the pocket with how much of a running threat he is when he decides to tuck and run or a design run play. So with those four quarterback specific traits we have a grade. We've always done this 20 plus years. It's a one through five grade. Think about it as golf As I always say like the lower the score the better. The US Open yesterday, just awesome. I don't know if you watch any of it spawn when 65 foot putt Father's Day two daughters come on rushing rushing on the course like I'm like literally holding back tears just chill bumps, goosebumps all over my arms.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I GUESS he's at CVS at 3am that morning getting his daughter like medicine because she was throwing up and we're.

[Todd McShay]

Both dads, we know that perfect man. Separate separate church from state like yeah I've got a big match. I've got the biggest match of my life tomorrow. It doesn't matter my daughter's sick up cv. CVS here I come. Open the doors. So that was really cool. But sticking with the golf theme the lower the score the better one is Excellent. Two is good, three is average, four is, is below average and five is marginal. We've turned this into a fun game and I just like, it's, it's like a reveal party, you know. So I'm gonna. For John Matier, mental makeup. What Was your grade? 1 through 5?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

3. 3.

[Todd McShay]

That's exactly what I had.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

All right, here we go.

[Todd McShay]

All right, accuracy 1 through 5.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I did your 05. I did 3.5. I could have, I really could have gone four. We're going to get into that.

[Todd McShay]

Okay. I went three.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Release arm strength 1 through 5.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

One.

[Todd McShay]

Ooh. I went two.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Okay.

[Todd McShay]

Pocket mobility. 1 through 5.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

1.5.

[Todd McShay]

I gave him a 1.5. We haven't been close. There's been some guys that we've been off on this one. This one's probably the closest who. We've done Nussmeier, we've done Sellers, we've done Clubnik, we've done Allergic. Am I missing any? I think we did, we did Arch Manning to begin with.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Obviously a limited report, so this is interesting to me. That's good. It's good loaded quarterback class, by the way. I know we said it last time but like every time I watch, every time I watch a guy I'm like, oh, he's, he's interesting. Okay. Especially coming off of last year's class, which was, which was a, it wasn't, it wasn't a great group. We all know that. Two in the first round. Cam Ward, number one overall. Jackson Dart Giants straight up four. Shador Sanders falls to the fifth. The whole story, but certainly was disappointing coming off the year before where he had record setting six quarterbacks drafted in the top 12 picks. So Matier, as we've done and I enjoyed doing it, I have a, I have like a Colin Cowherd type parallel to run with, with Mater, but I'm going to save it and let you get started. Go ahead.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That's gonna, that should be good.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

All right. So I can't wait to listen to you talk about the mechanics because the mechanics are an issue. You're a former quarterback. I feel like that's, that's right in your wheelhouse and I'll let you talk about that. And I could see going in into an offense coordinator and showing them John Matier's film and the offense corner being like, wow, there's things I really like but we got a lot of work to do here. But I'll take the, I'll take the flip side of this. Imagine going into a defensive coordinator's offense and saying that this is the kid you got to go against this week and your as a defensive coordinator, man, it's going to be some long nights.

[Todd McShay]

Because I like how you frame that. I really like how you frame that. Yep.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

This, this kid's skill set is a problem. Yes. He misses throws again. We'll get into that. But the, when I look at his.

[Todd McShay]

Arms, I should mention 6, 6 1. He listed 61 2, 20. I, I saw where it's like 4 5, 4, 5, 5. I wouldn't shock me if this dude's 4, 4 5, but go ahead.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Wow. Yeah. I mean I think the 45 is good. Maybe he's a little bit faster. But you're looking at that skill set. There is no throw he can't make. He makes throws where you think you have him, you have him dead to rights. He's off his spot. There's and all sudden he makes some kind of just zips it in there. He's got that kind of ability. And then on top of that you're, you're talking about the running only quarterback last year with 20 plus passing touchdowns and 10 plus rushing touchdowns. So he's a. If you, you want to play him with man and blitz him and you, and you got your back seven turning their backs on him and he takes off, you're in trouble. He is a guy that can hurt you with his legs. He can get in the red zone. He can make plays with his feet in the red zone. That, that running element is a big part of his game. And the second thing I really want to talk about and try to try to stay mature about this is hole balls. And hole balls are, hole balls are when you're throwing to the holes in zone coverage. And this is why I was going to bring up Boise state. He throws 30 yard hole balls outside the hashes to his receivers in front of the safeties behind that second level defender. And he makes it look easy. And he had made five or six of these throws by the Boise State game. And I was like this, this is crazy to me. He just, it looked it, it reminded me of watching Steph Curry warm up. That is not as easy as it looks. It's a tough throw to make but he makes it consistently. And his ability to get that ball there is a. Is going to be a problem for defenses that want to play zone against him. And then you added in his ability to throw into tight window windows over the middle against zone. If it all comes together for him, he is going to Be a problem for defenses.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, yeah. There's just so much to unpack. No, yeah, right, Right. Let me start with this. This is what I was talking about, the Colin Cowherd thing. Colin does the. I actually got to work with Colin early in my career and sit in his studio and I was kind of like, who is it? Jason McIntyre who now works with them? I was kind of. And, and for like a limited time, just he was, they were trying to different things in the studio. Colin, Colin likes to have someone in studio with him. Just, it's not like secret sauce. It's like you can just tell by being a viewer to have someone is where he's talk. So he's talking to someone. But like it's all his show. So it's going to be a 9010 or 955 split at the time. So I was in there and I think I told you the story after the first day. I was kind of like the guinea pig and, and the producer was like, yeah, like you did great. But like that's not the show. This isn't, this isn't a 7030 split. Big, big boy. Like you're the 5, 5%, maybe 10 if he asks you more question.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

So yes, like our show.

[Todd McShay]

Shut up. But, but Colin does the best job I think of anyone of like telling, like giving it, giving a, an example of what he's thinking about, whatever, whatever sport it is and bringing it into like a real life. Real life, you know, and somehow drawing a parallel, you know, and he'll be like, you know, getting. Washing your, washing your laundry is like this guy is a three point shooter. And you're like, what the hell is he talking about? And then he lands it and you're like oh, okay, it helps, it helps you frame it in your brain. Right? I don't even know if this is like what Colin does necessarily. But, but John Matier to me, and I wrote this down like a side piece of paper. I was just like, he's YouTube. The good and the bad. John Matier is. And, and it makes sense because he's like in the YouTube generation and maybe he's the first of the YouTube generation. Because when you watch him like everything's 1.5 speed. You watch your kids stuff when they're what, it's going like that and they're talking fast and they're, and they're like, I went to, I went to tuck my son in last night and he's got YouTube going like, what are you doing, man? And, and, and I Took it as a. An opportunity to be like. When we talk about brain rot, like, they literally. So I'm like, I watched about a minute, and they had nine different things. All sports stuff. All, like, harmless, but, like, it went from like, an athlete injuring the knee to, like, throwing a basketball off the side of the hoop. Like, none of them were within 100 miles of each other. And it's like your brain is here, there, and you talk about, like, the ADHD generation, all that stuff. This was like watching the. Not the first, but it was like, a shining example. Watching his tape of, like, oh, this is the YouTube brain. 1.1.5 speed. It's highly entertaining. And. And by the way, there's a ton of good content in there, but in the same breath, it's frenetic. It's frenzied. It's out of control. You feel out of control watching it, and sometimes there's some dangerous stuff in there.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Shield your eyes stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

You know what I mean? And, like. And if. And if you go down a rabbit hole, all of a sudden, you start by watching, like, a thing on. On shooting free throws. There's a lot of really good, informative, healthy content. There's a lot of positives. There's a lot of good things. It's happening fast, but there's not a lot of, like, okay, let's take a breath. Let's set our feet. Let's get. Let's get our feet set. Let's. Let's. Let's follow through in a delivery. Let's go through our progressions. Let's, like, let's operate the process. Let's take it from 1.5 speed and bring it down to 1. Let's. You know, that's. He's like the YouTube brain at the quarterback position. And I also. And it's like, it was interesting because I didn't know his bio. I just started the tape. I didn't know his bio. And I start. And I'm like, 40 plays in. I'm like, I. I betcha I'm gonna Google his name right now. And in John Matier bio, I betcha this guy played Texas high school football.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Kyler, Murray, Baker Mayfield, Johnny Manziel. It's all the same stuff.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's a hundred miles an hour. It's everything sudden. You love so much of it. It's tempo, it's moving the offense forward. It's. It's. It. You know, you're putting the defense on its heels every play, but you're gonna Miss some easy stuff.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

You're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna give up some like easy change out there. And it's a lot of like every, like your feet aren't set.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's turn.

[Todd McShay]

It's the old Texas Tech stuff. Like why do you think like Kingsbury and, and all, like all those guys. It was like the. Mike Leach, Texas Tech get the ball at shortstop. We used to call it like the shortstop, like catch it side or get it out. So the mechanics aren't always right, the footwork's not always right. The ball plays. They're gonna. Excuse me. Miss a lot of throws that, that are easily made. Had you just calm the fuck down. Down. Put it on 1.0 speed. Thought through it a second. Got your feet set. Get your base underneath you. Get your arm not here, but here. You know what I mean? You. We're. But it doesn't matter because we're running a hundred of these things and so what if we leave 10 of them, 15 of them on the field? We're just going to run so many and there's going to be so much coming at you defensively that we're going to, we're going to wear you down with all of it so we can afford to miss. And it was like, you know, Chip Kelly did some of this stuff. Mike Leach, it was like. And that's how they beat you. But what happens is sometimes these quarterbacks coming from Texas high school football, where that's kind of like that's the start of it, right? And get to a program that's a lot of whether it's air raid or what. And they. There, there were. It's quantity over quality. But you get quarterbacks like Kyler Murray who have unbelievable athleticism and a big arm and make these throws that are like off the charts. Johnny Manziel, we think just about what he did to Alabama and some of the big games. And we know Johnny Manziel's off the field problems led to all that stuff, but the dude was absolute magic. Baker Mayfield. Baker Mayfield. You think about Texas high school football, Oklahoma. Lincoln Riley, though. Lincoln Riley was the different one. He broke off from that branch, from that tree. He was a branch that broke off the tree. Let's run the counter. Let's be more physical up front. Let's have pro elements into this thing. And so it's interesting. I just wanted to give that all as a backdrop because, yes, there's so much mensch to like about his tape. He is tough as nails. John Matier is one of the most competitive you'll ever see. There is a. There's a run. I don't even know where it is in my notes. There was a run. I'm gonna find it right now. It's worth it. There was a run late in the game. At some point. Go ahead, you're going to say something. I'm going to find it.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I was going to say really quickly. I don't know. Did you see the clip or. I don't know if you saw the clip of Brady talking about. Someone asked Tom Brady, how hard is it to throw the ball in a straight line? And he said, if your technique is great, if your mechanics are great, it's not that hard. But what he does is he talks about the cone and he talks about how everything should be funneled towards where the ball is going to be. And with Matier, he hasn't seen that clip yet. He hasn't learned that yet. There are times where his hips are. I. He had a. He had a throw against Portland State where he was rolling to his left. If I had tried to make that throw, I would have blown out every ligament.

[Todd McShay]

Every.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I would have torn every ligament in my lower body, like every one of them. I don't know how he did. It was a great throw, by the way. It was accurate. And that's his. You know, that's what he's great at is making plays like that. He can do that kind of a thing, but it is inconsistent and he's going to have to learn how to, you know, throw with his lower body as much as he is with his upper body. You can even see it, how violent his throwing motion is when he doesn't get his feet set. I mean, he is. The torque and the upper body is crazy when you see it on tape.

[Todd McShay]

754, fourth quarter against Texas Tech. They're leading 34 16. It's midway through the fourth quarter. Obviously, if you want to know about this guy's compete level, go back and watch. 754, fourth quarter. It's a long run versus Texas. Deck. Okay, first of all, most, almost every guy you watch in this moment, up 3416, fourth quarter. You got a long run deep into their zone. Kind of put the game away, run it out of bounds. We. If we kick a field goal here, it's 3716. You're getting the ball back with like six minutes. This dude takes off running, breaks a tackle, races down the sideline, and there's two defenders converging on him. And instead of just sliding, he can slide. He's very capable. He showed it over and over again on tape. Instead of just sliding or, or darting out of bounds, he looks this son of a back. He looks. And look, he's got one defender coming from his right, another from his left.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He picks.

[Todd McShay]

He's like boom, boom, picks the guy on his left and attacks him, stiff arms him, rips off of him and then takes it down, takes it down the sideline and almost gets in for the score. I think they marked him at like the one yard line. So, like I started off with the toughest nails, plays his tail off. Insanely competitive. Because you need to know that about like the makeup of this guy. He is an absolute gym rat competitor. Every play it's on the line for this guy. Okay. I thought he showed fast eyes. I'm going through kind of the mental.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yes, I'm glad you brought this. Yes. Because he understands there are some concepts he understands really well. I think based on what I'm seeing on tape, I think there's some encouraging stuff about how he reads the way defenders are. They're leveraged, how they're set up. You know, there was, you know, out of spread sets. If the safeties are doing this, he understands he's got the steam route down the middle to the running back. There are things that he sees against zone, looks with anticipation and ripping it over the middle. There are some encouraging thing, encouraging things about how he processes in the pocket.

[Todd McShay]

There's flashes. We talked about that with Cam Ward. Right. Like, I think that, I think that Callahan, Brian Callahan saw enough like it wasn't flashes, but like if you did the clip reel of Cam Ward when he was playing on time, in rhythm, top of his drop, right foot, right foot, planted receivers, you know, about to break, and he's on time. He was an absolute assassin. I talked a lot about that. Right. This guy. It's more flashes there. There's a catalog for Cam Ward. This is like you gotta go through your notes and maybe you find 20 of them for the season. Whereas Ward, you probably find 100, whatever the numbers are. But my point is he can.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yes, correct.

[Todd McShay]

He can go from right to left, he can hang in the pocket. When he's trusting what he's seeing, when he knows the concept and, and when he knows the importance of waiting for it develop, he can do it. Now, I mentioned that Arbuckle's going with him from one place to the next. That's great news for Oklahoma. And I don't know Arbuckle that well and I love what they did and I that like that offense. Like they had a lot of success with not a ton of talent. He had a great wide receiver, we know, not a ton of talent around him. They had a lot of success. So they're going to have a lot of success at Oklahoma. I truly believe that. But I think some of the things that, that Mattier needs, I. Let's put it this way. Sooner's fans should be thrilled that Arbuckle's coming and, and John should be thrilled that Arbuckle's coming. John Matier. And I think it's a great thing. And, and I'm. I'm heaping praise on Arbuckle because like he, the what he did with the first year starter was. Was magical. Right. But I'm saying from an NFL scouts lens, you'd almost like to see him go somewhere else with a new quarterback, coach a new OC and get drilled something else drilled into him because we know what he can do in that. I'd like to see him in this, but we're not going to. And that's fine too.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

That is fine.

[Todd McShay]

But it's an important note. Go ahead. The.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

The. The level of competition is a lot different in Oklahoma, I'll tell you that too.

[Todd McShay]

Uhhuh.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I mean you got Michigan rolling into town week two.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You got the Red River Shootout with Texas. You are at South Carolina. You got Ole Miss coming and then. And then at Tennessee, at Alabama and then you end the year with LSU coming into town. I mean that is a. That schedule, that schedule's legit. Man.

[Todd McShay]

My blind spots. You always have. I didn't even think to look. That's awesome. So you're not getting stuff right.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Exactly. So you're not getting that change in terms of the scheme. But you know, like it's nice when you beat Washington and you're in Washington State. You know, that's a, that's a nice little win for you last year. There's a big difference between beating Washington and beating an LSU or going into South Carolina and getting a win.

[Todd McShay]

That brings me perfectly to this point. The dude absolutely thrives in, in turbulence. Some pilots like a nice clean ride. This guy loves, loves it, seeks it, needs it, it likes through his veins. He's a turbulence guy. He loves the chaos. It's a great attribute because so many times we like how many times do we have like USC quarterbacks or Michigan quarterbacks come out in the NFL draft like when the. At the peak of their programs or Alabama Whoever was, and you're like, like J.J. mcCarthy. I remember having these conversations. Sanchez, only 13 starts, great supporting cast. Matt Liner, great supporting cast. There's a lot of quarterbacks we've said over the years, like, yeah, but like, what's it going to look like in the NFL when he doesn't have two offensive lineman first rounders, three other guys who are mid rounders, a run, two running backs with lendale and Reggie White and, and wide receivers off, what's it going to look like? Right, and so, so now like you go from Washington State where he didn't have a great supporting cast but the competition wasn't great, now he's going to have a better supporting cast, but it's not like, you know, it's, it's not one of these elite programs in terms of offensive talent as we saw last year. And he's going to have to do it because I wrote in my notes, I wrote in my notes, can he be trusted? And I, and I said that because it's a question that NFL teams are going to ask if he doesn't show a lot of progress in terms of a lot of the things we're talking about getting his feet right, more consistent with his throws. You and I gave him a three, right around threes, which is middle of the road. And probably it's, we tend in the summer to give grades that are mercy grades because there's always the hope for progression, especially with the first year starter. So it's the footwork, it's the mechanics, it's getting those things right, it's making the right read and not, and not turning everything into a fire drill. All those things. Can he be trusted?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And yeah, we had the same questions about a lot of other quarterbacks at this, at this point in their progressions. And I think obviously Cam Ward's a former Washington State guy, transferred to another school. You know, it does seem easy to make this comparison, but were we asking the same question about Cam Ward a year ago? Can he be trusted? Can he? And it's the question will be, can he make the same kind of progress? Will he be on the same kind of an arc?

[Todd McShay]

And so I look at it and to his credit, I'll give you a couple things that are to his credit for all the chaos, all the insanity, all the weird arm angle throws, all the off balance stuff, all the trick, I, I wrote down like trick shots, trick points plays, like, yeah, the little.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Flip to the running back and the, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Even the second play, the second play that I Wrote down. I was like. I wrote in there. Like, what the hell is that? I said, what the hell are we doing here? Climb the pocket. Tries to make a trick shot. Throw running forward. This is 12:57, the first quarter against Texas Tech. Tries to s. Like, s. I didn't even know how to. I remember. I. I had to rewind it a couple times, literally, to try to explain to the reader what. What I was talking about. He was like, side slinging it to his right while running forward. So he's going running forward.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

His feet are going north.

[Todd McShay]

His. He is literally think about you dead sprinting. Be like, run as fast at me, men, as you can. And now go. And when I say go, I want you to rip open your body like.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

You'Re exactly right, though. It is exactly right.

[Todd McShay]

Sprinting towards me. And then I said. I say go, and all of a sudden it's rip your body open to the right arm like this and try to sling it. And he tries to do it to. I think he was running back in the flat, and I said with his. And. But so when he does it, he gets his whole body turned and his back. When I actually froze the frame, his back was 3/4 the way turned to the line of scrimmage. And his arms like this. He's like this. And his body's going like this. And he's trying to throw it. Trying to throw an accurate.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

To the. To the flat. And he misses by, like five yards. I know I'm out of breath, but honestly, that's the experience watching this guy. But the Boise State game, I wrote this down because it was one of the best defenses he faced all year.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep.

[Todd McShay]

And Boise State is really. They're talented. Right. But they're also really, like, disciplined and physical, and they get after your ass for four quarters and they don't give you a break. They smother you. Right. They suffocate you.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

And I want to give that way for decades. It's been that way decades.

[Todd McShay]

I want to give him credit in two areas, because this is important to note. All of this madness that we're trying to explain. He only threw seven interceptions all year.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right. He got away with some, but they all do.

[Todd McShay]

And he only fumbled the ball three times, and he. He has weirdly good ball security for a guy who's playing like. Like an ins. It's like an insane asylum. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

He averaged 14.8 carries per game, by the way. So when you're looking at those fumble.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's like a running back almost 15 carries per game.

[Todd McShay]

That's. And then a lot of it, like hectic carries. Not like design the hand off the ball. No, no, no. Yeah. Six points of ball security. Like a lot of craziness going on and bullets flying and flashing from everywhere. Only fumbled three times, only seven interceptions. This guy was like the whole offense ran through him. Run game, pass game, all of it. So. So I want to give him his, his credit there. I also want to give him a nod in this Boise State game. I thought he played great. He completed like 69 of his throws. He showed me more in that game in terms of like going through progressions. It's like he can do it stuff. He showed some spots in that game where he can go through his progressions and make accurate throws from the pocket and all that stuff. But he was sacked eight times and now you read me that schedule again. Michigan at Tennessee, South Carolina. Did you say lsu? Texas.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

LSU at the end? Texas, yep. At South Carolina. The other one was the Bullets.

[Todd McShay]

I think the bullets are going to be bigger, they're going to be more piercing, they're coming faster and they're coming from more directions now. So that's going to be like fascinating and critical to watch this year. Couple other things while I'm on a rant right now.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Go for it.

[Todd McShay]

My goodness is he generate a lot of torque, I'm telling you. So like the accuracy is all over the board, the mental makeup, like he can, but he's got a lot of things to clean up. But he still protects the football.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Also very young in a first year starter, which we had already mentioned. But keep it in mind that this is a guy who's, you know, learning on the fly going. So he's, he's young and he's a first year starter.

[Todd McShay]

Totally. And I will also want to say this. He improved a lot from the beginning of the year to even that Boise State game to like the last four games. I saw improvement. He was, he was in over his head in the first couple of games and he progressed like just incrementally every single week it felt like. And we've seen with other quarterbacks, we talked about Nussmire, like middle of the season had a lull. Other guys have like ups and downs. I thought he like gradually progressed. Not every single week, but like there was a positive arc in trajectory in my opinion. Okay, so you saw improvement. He's tough as nails. He's an unbelievable competitor. He's fast, he's sudden, he's quick. Everything he does is sudden and quick. And it's exhausting to defend. He's a running threat. He. All of these things, right. So we've got the accuracy covered. His footwork's a disaster and his arm angles are all over the place, but he's still like. But I say all those to say he's a naturally gifted passer in terms of placing the ball when he has the opportunity to do it, even with average. And. And his accuracy throwing on the run is really good. He does a lot of good things. Then we get to the arm strength. You gave him a one.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I gave.

[Todd McShay]

Him a. I gave him a two. Like, I. I don't know that he's elite and I didn't. I just don't. I don't know what his normal stroke is. So I think maybe I gave him a little note, like, because I was wondering.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I was watching and I was like, if McShade doesn't give him a one, my thought was the release was going to be your issue.

[Todd McShay]

Was it the release down the back?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's a little.

[Todd McShay]

Brings the ball down the back. Shoot. He's got to work on more consistency of his carriage, right? It. There's times where he's running around and I, I threw a. A play on. I'm on threads now, by the way, and I'm. I'm thoroughly enjoying threads. I think it's McSh McShay. Thirteen. Yeah, I don't. I'm not. I don't. I stay a million miles away from politics and this is this and this is that and all that. I'm just like. I like to go on there because the feed is purely like what I'm looking for. The sports, okay, the vast majority sports and, you know, like golf yesterday and certain things. But my point is I put it up on threads. I think I may have added it to. To X as well, but it was just like the torque that he's able to generate. There's one play where he's rolling to his right and he. Like, not something you're teaching in coaching camp. Like, I brought Tate to. To see like the M2QB here it was Alex McLaughlin's one of the two guys and Mike McCarthy and like, they're not teaching carrying the ball, right? Rolling right the ball out like this and flicking it like that. But. But they are. But. But he. It. Every once in a while you get a glimpse into what is the. Like, we talk about arm strength. Like, literally with nothing else from his body helping. What is. What's the. What's the velocity he can generate from just simply flicking his, going with his arm. And this throw he made probably a 1012 yard out, but he's rolling to his right and, and the, the that he had on it with no help from his lower body was pretty remarkable.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I think that's similar to the accuracy because I gave him a lower grade than you did. He makes some on time, accurate throws on tape. He does. I, when I was giving that grade, I was like, this could easily go to a 2 if you can get him right. This could easily go to a 2. It's not there yet. And I think maybe for the arm strength and tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth, maybe you feel the same way. If this kid learns to reset his feet and throw with his base when he can, your arm strength rating could go up.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, I'm going to sum it up here because I think you just said, said what I really want to drive home to the viewer and people who, whether you're an Oklahoma fan or an SEC fan or just a college football fan or you're getting ready for next year's quarterback class in the NFL, Matiere has a lot of stuff that can be improved upon and it's like a very clear path and it's not always the case. Like Lenore Sellers is very raw and he's got a lot of work to do and a lot of steps to get there, but he's unbelievably talented. He's not. Matier's not as talented as Sellers, but he's still damn talented.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Can I ask you something about this? And I always think about Tim Tebow when this comes up, right? Because when Tim Tebow was at Florida, everyone knew his throwing motion was an issue. Right. But he was also the best, I think he was probably the best college quarterback of all time. And it didn't matter how he threw the ball so they didn't really have to fix it with our buckle. Going from Washington State to Oklahoma, the success, success they've already had. Do you think he's going to be a, you know, going to be really drilling in on improving his feet and getting him into a better spot with his feet and his mechanics, or is that a concern for you, that we've already seen him with two years with our buckle and he still has a footwork issue? That a concern for you at all or no?

[Todd McShay]

I went back to it like 15 times in my mind and two or three times in my report and it's hard because I like, I, I again, I can't say Enough good things about Arbuckle, 29 years old, what they doing offensively and, and, and all of it, all of it. You're talking about winning, you're talking about.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Winning college football games and then you're talking about getting a kid ready to be the best pro he could be. There's two different things there. And Arbuckle's number one job is to win college football games for Oklahoma or Washington State. So I get it. I'm not being critical of that, but I've seen it before where if guys can win, they don't want to start tinkering. And I do wonder if they're going to be like, hey man, just do your thing, go out and play. That's what makes you great. You're.

[Todd McShay]

Here's what I wrote. Here's what I wrote that like I said, simply put, and this is the most important thing that I wrote in the entire report. Matier's biggest challenge is to bottle up all of that magic that I just saw on tape while dialing down the turbulence.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It's a great way of putting it.

[Todd McShay]

That's it. Really.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Because when I, when I talk about the turbulence, it's self, it's self inflicted turb. It's self generated turbulence. A lot of it, not all of it. So like utilizing all those skill sets, all that, all the, the Manzel, the Kyler, the, you know, I don't even say Baker because Baker was more refined, but the. All like the, the Mahomes, all of that wildness. Mahomes. I can't believe I didn't mention him as one that like Texas high school football, just insanity. But Mahomes is the perfect example of a guy who at the next level got with the right people, worked on his footwork, had a year behind Alex Smith. Right. Not everyone gets that. So this is a year where he has to show improvement. And I went back to the Army Arbuckle stuff a bunch of times in my mind. God, I'm happy for, for John Matier. I'm happy for Oklahoma. This is going to be a huge success compared to the unmitigated disaster that offense was for the Sooners last year. But is it the best situation for John Matier developing as an NFL prospect?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

We'll see.

[Todd McShay]

We'll see.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

They could be.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. I mean I wrote it over and over again, but it, there are, there was even one fade that he threw. Was one fade that he threw. It was like such a microcosm. He, he actually stayed in the pocket, had protection, three step off the shotgun. Maybe one, one or three. Step off the shotgun, feet set, goes to throw it clean as a whistle. It was like.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

It was on the dance floor.

[Todd McShay]

You and Tyler in the backyard playing catch. Okay.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Nothing around. No worries in the world. It's 75 and sunny. There's no real breeze to speak of. No precipitation, no. No one's running the lawnmower. No kids throwing other balls around. Just you guys playing a healthy game of catch in the backyard. And he's still cut his follow through short. Left it there and then does. Does this thing, man, where he hops to the left three times.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. He's on the dance floor. He's. He's doing his thing.

[Todd McShay]

It's his. It's his comfort zone.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

It's fascinating. And I know that's a lot of detail and people are like, all right, enough. We get. But like, I just, I wanted to share the experience because it was absolutely an experience watching this guy. He's fast, he's tough, he's smart, he's competitive. He's got a big arm. He can create and generate energy from on the ball from all these crazy arm angles and all these different things. It's not Josh Allen Armstrong, it's not Patrick Mahomes arm strength. It's not in that level. But he's got a lot of zip and a lot of energy. The driving, the deep ball, it's good. It's not elite, but I think it's really good. There was a throw from the left hash over to the front 40 yards, but it was from left hash to the outside and. And he. They were trailing, I think, in the Boise State game. He throws it, they're down like 14. It's worth a shot. Taking it. He took the shot. Db, like, the ball's like right by his hand and he made it. It was a brilliant throw.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Couldn't believe he made that throw. Yep.

[Todd McShay]

Couldn't believe it. Right. Yeah.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

One of many, but yeah, so you.

[Todd McShay]

Have all that stuff. But if he's going to take the next step and if he's going to be a first round pick and much more importantly, he's going to have success in the league. We got this off season. I'm hoping, like John, if you're watching or anyone in your family, like, I am hoping, the emphasis is on drilling home the footwork, basic mechanics, and, and figuring out a way to know that you got that in your bag, you got that shot in your bag, but it. We don't have to pull that club out of the bag. Every single shot, we're in the middle of the fairway, we got to go 180, you know, bring out, bring out the six iron or whatever it is for you. You know, it doesn't have to be this trick shot behind a tree. All the. So I'm wearing my golf shirt today as Tucker's making fun of me because I'm not wearing a. A hoodie. But yeah, I don't know. He's interested. Let's leave it at that. Like right now in June, and who cares? Because so much changes, especially when you're changing teams, conferences, competition levels, all that in first year to second year as a starter, all that, like, so much can change. Right now I'm comfortable saying I think this guy, like, if. If he was thrown into the draft and we saw the same exact product on the field this year for a second year, I think he's a day two pick.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

I'm comfortable with that.

[Todd McShay]

But I. But I honestly think, like, if Baker Mayfield was the number one overall pick in the draft and Kyler Murray, like.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Cam Ward, I mean, yes, I think.

[Todd McShay]

This guy could be a first round pick, a top 15 pick, something like that. I do. But is he going to make those. That progression against better competition and maybe not a ton of change in his mental approach to the game and to his mechanics?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yep, we'll see. Can't wait to watch it.

[Todd McShay]

I'm exhausted. Just. Yeah, it was exhausting in like the most fun way. It was like a while. It was like a real. Yeah, it was like getting it done with a roller coaster ride. I sat in a chair as I did watching tape buckle the seatbelt. I didn't do any work, but somehow I get off the ride and I'm like, I need a minute. Like, get me some water.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

But then you're ready to get back in line for that same ride. I mean, you're gonna. Yeah. You're going back around again. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. What is the first weekend in September like, I'm glued. And this is Connor. This is Connor Nevin's guy. It is like we would hang up or go go off air. We do our Saturday night shows. Anyone who wasn't with us last fall, and we get it. We started the season October 22nd. We started the show on October 22nd, midway through the season. But FYI, every Saturday night this year, I can't wait. Beginning of the year, I know we're doing live shows after the prime time game. We're on live. We're now cutting into like five minutes before and watching it together. It's the most fun thing we do.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Truly, it is so much fun.

[Todd McShay]

But every time we would get off, like, Connor would be like, yeah, yeah, we're done. Like, I'm going to watch Matier, right?

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Meanwhile, it's like two in the morning for us. So I'm like, like I'm. No.

[Mel Kiper Jr.]

Yeah. Okay.

[Todd McShay]

But now I truly, like, I, I had watched him, but I had like gone through the experience like Conor had gone through. And I get why he. It's almost like I could see it being like a cult following. This guy's going to be playing in the sec. This guy is going to become a legend. I feel like fun. All right. This is awesome. We're back on Thursday. Maybe our last guy, Sam Levitt from Arizona State, maybe the last quarterback we're going to do in this series, at least for now, going to put a plug in the quarterbacks and, and recognize that other positions play, play the game. We're going to do some stuff. We're going to Caleb Downs deserves some, some love. Speaking of love, we're going to get to the running back from Notre Dame, Jeremiah Love, and we'll get to some other running backs, some other DBs. We're going to do a mailbag. Talking about what? Like, where are we after many camps and different things with the rookie class. We're going to ask questions. You're going to ask questions, audience, and we're going to give answers. We're going to go through some of the top defensive prospects. We're going to do a Clemson breakdown because I'm telling you, hey, wait, my guys, I know you're, you're a Clemson Tiger at heart. But, but yeah, we got a lot of fun. Some stuff coming up in the summer. Kind of going to go a little easy in July, but we're going to be with you every week in July and then we're going to just load back up in August getting ready for the season. So this is fun. And see you on Thursday with Sam Levitt later. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenectic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 247 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New IT.