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The McShay Show
Senior Bowl Day One Takeaways: Could Jaxson Dart Rise? Plus, Azareye'h Thomas Shines
01:13:28
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- [00:01]
Todd McShay
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- [00:10]
Steve Mensch
What is this place?
- [00:11]
Todd McShay
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- [00:31]
Steve Mensch
It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. You thought December was the most wonderful time of the year. Well, you're wrong. The NFL playoffs are just about here. And there's no better time to bet with America's number one sportsbook. Bet on new and fun markets like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive touchdowns in the next drive, and so much more. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus get exclusive offers all playoffs long. So download the app today and bet the playoffs with FanDuel. An official sportsbook partner of the NFL. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com can ole miss quarterback Jackson Dart work his way into QB2 with a great week here at the Senior Bowl? Also, Tez Johnson, wide receiver from Oregon. Is he the most uncoverable wide receiver at the Senior bowl this week? Also, get ready for this. Name Azaria Thomas, a cornerback from Florida State. Could he be a top 20 pick? We got a lot to get into. It's just Tuesday here at the Senior bowl and only 86 days until the NFL draft. Look who I got here. Mench, you good?
- [02:04]
Todd McShay
I'm good, man.
- [02:05]
Steve Mensch
All right. Tickle that sweet music for me, please. Well, you heard in the open, there's a lot going on and this is exciting, man. You know, it's. It's Tuesday. It's the first day of practice. We have three days of practice here at the Senior Bowl. And Mitch, I don't know about you, like, it was exciting. There was a lot coming out. There was a lot of information. There was a lot of conversations we had. And also on the field, there was a lot of good things to gleam. I do always laugh when you start to get on, on the social media feeds, it's like, oh, this player worked his way into first round. Like if you're listening that, like you're not listening to the right people or the, or places. So we will try to keep perspective but I certainly like there's a lot of urgency in what we just saw and the beauty is we're literally like off the practice field in the car, driving here to our set and it's. This is just going to be free flowing information. If you were sitting next to us in the stands today, if you were peeking over our shoulders into our notes, essentially like you're going to have the experience of what we were able to see from practice today. I'm going to start here, match the quarterbacks, of course. Okay. Because everyone has to start at the quarterbacks. You know, I broke free from the chains but I'm still, I still have bad habits where we always have to be talking about the quarterbacks. There are what, six or seven quarterbacks here today. So let's, let's break it down. We've got on one time in the morning session we saw Tyler Schuck, we saw from Louisville the cornerback quarterback Dylan Gabriel. From Oregon we have the Canadian quarterback Taylor El Gursma. Right on the opposite side this afternoon was Jackson Dart, kind of the headlining group. Okay. Jackson Dart from Ole Miss, Jalen Milro from, from Alabama, Riley Leonard from Notre Dame, who by the way, we applaud you, Riley. Like the fact that you're coming off the national championship game in a loss after that first drive and like the exhaustion he must have had and right here in a mobile to compete. It shows how important he realizes this process is. You know, this part of the process is for his NFL draft stock. And finally Seth Hennigan from, from Memphis. I've got a lot to get into here, but I'm going to start with. You mentioned first reactions and things that you saw from the field today.
- [04:35]
Todd McShay
I, I thought it was a slow start for the groups overall. I thought Jackson Dart didn't. Wow. I thought he was okay. I thought could have been a little more consistent. I thought Jalen Milroe had a, from Alabama had a tougher start. Some issues with accuracy, holding on to the ball, wanted him to get the ball out a little bit quicker. Those are the two big names that we were looking at. And honestly not, I wouldn't use the word disappointed but it wasn't the start that I was hoping that they would have.
- [04:59]
Steve Mensch
It is always the story. I mean just being here we got here on Sunday night. Today's Tuesday. We've got practice on the Wednesday practice is arguably the most important because the installs are in. It's more physical. But then Thursday, we've got a lot of some special teams, team stuff, some other installs. The red zone periods are hugely important. But the conversations and the people we saw and some of the, you know, the talk, it really always centers around the quarterbacks. I even had a head coach. Right.
- [05:27]
Todd McShay
I mean, this is going to say it's. I want people to understand this is very much unsettled. When Todd says that Jackson Dart could be the number two quarterback or the number three quarterback. He had a head coach approach him today and ask him kind of, where do you see the guys at this point in the process? I mean, it's still January. I know people are like, oh, we just had the college football season, and they think they know where everyone is on the board. Some of these coaches are just digging into this tape and figuring out the guys that they like, maybe dislike. And someone pulled Todd aside and said, what are you seeing?
- [05:53]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, it was interesting. And you got to remember, head coach in the NFL is coming off of coaching a season, probably took a minute to breathe and then is probably just delved. And this is a coach who, by the way, a team that needs a quarterback so very much interested in just starting to get into this process. Right. And there's a general manager, there's scouts, and like, everyone is doing their job in the personnel department. But you're not drafting a quarterback if. Unless the most important people in your organization are signing off of it. Ownership to start, general manager and your head coach. Right, right. Especially when the head coach has a history of developing quarterbacks and coaches that. That side of the football for the most part. So to. To see, like, the urgency being pulled aside in a hallway, like, what do you got? Like, you've spent all season. I'm just. I'm just starting in this. It shows, like, all right, here we are. Like, the draft is starting and we've got to start figuring things out with these guys. I mentioned in the open, can Jackson Dart work his way to QB2 in this year's class? I did that. Not. Not to get a shock and awe and like, you know, to get ratings and clicks and all that stuff. I did it because there's a little bit of an underswell, if you will, that people are talking about Cam Ward probably as the number one quarterback in this class, talking about Shador Sanders as a guy who certainly is a first round pick in this class. But there are some people in the league that believe Jackson Dart could be QB2. And will it be decided here in Mobile? No, not necessarily. You got to remember you've got, you've got a career of tape for both of these guys. You've got this week Shador was at the East West Shrine Game we should mention but Shador did not participate. That was all part of the design. Just full disclosure. He, he accepted the invitation from the East West Shrine Game. Went participated I'm sure in interviews and, and, but he never put on pads, never practiced. There was never any, any idea that he would. He did it so he could help other players on his team get an opportunity to be in front of all 32 teams and NFL scouts and, and I applaud him for that. You know, he be a good teammate to the very end. But for Jackson Dart to be here and playing with the possibility to impress people and especially coaches that are just starting the process, it's a great opportunity. And I told you and I even put it on, on, on X this week. Two more tapes I studied this week of Jackson daughter. I still have three more to go. The more I watch, the more I like of this guy. And, and I'll say this, he is, he processes things better than I expected. And then really when I say expected, it's because of what I the tape I studied from a year ago. He's processing things better this year. Right. He's got more command at the line of scrimmage. You see Jackson dart this year on tape versus last year, checking out of plays, setting protections, doing more at the line of scrimmage. Okay. Then when the play, you know, after the snap, post snap, I'm seeing a guy that is like making harder NFL type throws in cutting routes with anticipation, pressure in his face. And there was a series of plays. There were three plays from the. I think it was the opening drive against South Carolina wasn't his best game, but there were three. I think all three. One was a drag. Two were in cutting routes. Two of the three had pressure in his face. And I'm seeing a guy that's like been through a lot of wars and is now throwing with confidence, knows where he wants to go with the ball, is hanging on to the ball to the last second because he needs his receiver to get to a point where he trusts that that's going to be open. So I'm seeing advancements in his game. The arm is there, the mobility is there, the toughness is there. The competitiveness is there and people will point to late in the season. The Florida game I think. Yeah, the Florida game, the Intercept I think three interceptions, two of which account counted in a, in clutch moments. Yeah, that's on tape and he's got to live with that and that's part of his evaluation. But there's so much good from his game and I think this is going to be a week. And to your point, today was interesting because there was a lot of install early. It was a lot of half speed for the first half of practice. Right.
- [10:07]
Todd McShay
A little sloppy.
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Steve Mensch
A little sloppy all around by the way.
- [10:10]
Todd McShay
Not just him.
- [10:10]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, no, all around. And there was also Mensch I thought a lot of plays where receiver and quarterbacks were and this is again not just him with all of the quarterbacks tucking the ball and running in team drills, checking down because nothing's open. They're, they're learning. You got to understand a quarterback's head is swimming and wide receivers heads are swimming and trying to get on the same page with guys you've never thrown to before in a system you've never played in NFL ball. Like, like it's all new. Right. And so today is always a day where you see growth as practice goes on but you expect the biggest growth to come from today to tomorrow. And and so I'm excited to see Jackson dart. I'm excited to see Jalen Milroe, all of these quarterbacks where they get but for Jackson himself, I thought he showed a lot of poise. I thought today he was kind of in control. I do think we're going to see more of like that alpha come out in him the next couple days. Once he gets command then he'll start taking command and demanding things from his teammates. You're not there yet on the first day so that was the first thing that jumped out to me. But in terms of just throwing the ball the way it came off his hand, above average, good, you know, good accuracy overall, good zip on the ball. Wasn't a throw he made gave me any concern overall, I thought for what today offered it was a solid day from dart. Jalen Milro was a different deal though. I mean I'm just going to be honest, my biggest concern with Jalen and I should mention and we're not going to do the whole thing. Like I've done enough of the sports centers and the get ups and Kenny Pickets and under nine inch hands and like it absolutely is a factor in the evaluation. Okay. The hand span from here to here, that's how they measure from the end of your. Of your thumb to the end of your pinky, right? And it's important, obviously, for wet conditions and poor conditions, how can you throw the football? But. And we've seen like Jared Goff had smaller hands and, and I remember, I'll never forget being at the Cal pro day, right? And we got a. I think it was a Cleveland Browns quarterback coach had him dipping the ball in a bucket of water. So, like a little. Sometimes we get a little crazy with all this, but Pickett wear gloves. Kenny Pickett wore gloves. Like, we've had all sorts of crazy stories. We're not gonna harp on this a lot, but it is a factor. It's one small piece of the evaluation that, that Jaylen Milroe at six, one and a half, two hundred and twenty pounds, when they did the measurements on Sunday afternoon, I believe he had eight and three quarter inch handspan, kind of the cutoff for acceptable. And when I say acceptable for cutoff for where you like, you can live with it and feel like it's not going to be a factor is nine inches. So eight and three quarters is. You would say it's not the big difference, but it's concerning for some teams. It's a red flag. It's a red flag. So that's that much bigger concern or much bigger part of the evaluation for Milroe, though, is it when it comes to ball placement and accuracy, here's the question I have. Is it a we're not naturally accurate or is it a game circumstance? Things are happening too fat, bullets are flying. I've got zone read all these different things. I'm responsible for what I saw today from Jalen Milroe. And we're going to, we're going to leave it at this and table it, okay. Because part of the process is, all right, here's where he was in day one. Where does he improve on day two? Is he getting better on Thursday, in the game on Saturday? All sorts of things you've got to remember with a player like Jalen Milroe, whose greatest strength, his two biggest assets, right? First one is his mobility. His greatest strength is his mobility. And that is that's put in the side and in practice at the Senior bowl. Because quarterbacks, they're not going to let him get hurt. So they're not going to run them in team drills. They're going to protect them. So the mobility aspect of playing quarterback is not a factor during the week of practice, which takes away his greatest asset. So we're not Going to see some of that brilliance here. Okay. What it also does is it puts all the spotlight on you as a passer in the pocket. Timing, anticipation, ball placement, your ability to layer the football, your ability to hit spots when you're throwing before a receiver gets out of break, your ability to show finesse on throws that require finesse. Okay. I thought Milroe, I mentioned the two assets he has. The first one is mobility. Second is, my goodness, it is one of the most beautiful deep balls you'll ever see. It's almost like it's two different individuals inside that Alabama helmet. You know, like the short to intermediate stuff. And then you watch him throw the ball vertically and it's like, wow, you know, it comes off perfectly. The rotation, the trajectory, the way he drops the ball in. He is a phenomenal deep ball passer. So he's got those two beautiful assets to his game. The problem is the short to intermediate passing is very concerning. And so what you want to see here in this environment, is it something that's game action that's causing the misplaced balls, if you will, the misplaced throws, the errand throws, or is it something where some guys just aren't overly naturally accurate? Today, if you were just going to evaluate based off of one practice, which would be the dumbest thing in the world, but if you were, you'd say maybe he's just not naturally accurate. There were throws today that other quarterbacks weren't making in terms of five, seven yards off target. I saw a quarterback that really wanted his receiver to be open rather than throwing them open, throwing with anticipation. I saw a quarterback that everything's a 95 mile an hour fastball, even on the short. He's making his receivers work for. Remember you talked about Carson Beck, right. Carson Beck made his. Made his receivers work for it a lot at Georgia, but that wasn't because he was throwing. He was rearing back and throwing as hard as he could. It was just a natural accuracy thing and footwork and tying it all together. Jalen, he does. He's not taking the ball, taking miles per hour off the fastball. He's not making it easy on receivers. And so today was a struggle. I mean, that's the easiest way I can put it. The first day of practice at the Senior bowl for Jaylen Milro was an absolute struggle with his accuracy. And we're going to have to see improvement in that area. We're going to see on Saturday, the mobility comes in and he's going to be dynamic. I fully expect him he's got a chance to win Senior bowl mvp, and it'd be a great story. The Alabama quarterback comes to the Senior bowl, and he's a Senior Bowl MVP because he's going to run around, he's going to make big plays, probably throw one or two deep balls, maybe he hits on one of them. Right. But what scouts and general managers and head coaches want to see is he showing improvement, and where's the natural at accuracy? And today, added to the concern for me that he's just not there yet.
- [17:09]
Todd McShay
Right.
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Steve Mensch
It's just.
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Todd McShay
Listen, it's day one, and you want to keep that in perspective. But I'm gonna be honest, I see some of the same things on tape, which is what's concerning to me. So you want to be optimistic that he's gonna get more comfortable with his receivers, he's gonna be more comfortable being here, he's gonna be more comfortable with his reads. But to be honest, he. There was. These are similar issues that we see on tape. So this is an opportunity for him to step it up, elevate his game, show us that maybe he's a little more accurate, he could be a little bit quicker getting the ball out. And he didn't take advantage of that opportunity today. But again, you try to be optimistic that he will be able to do so tomorrow.
- [17:44]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. And so. But honestly, it was, unfortunately, one of my biggest takeaways of the day, so I wanted to kind of start with.
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Todd McShay
I think it's one of. It's like, look, don't bury the headline. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's a big thing.
- [17:54]
Steve Mensch
It is. I thought Riley Leonard looked good. I was curious. I'm curious to get your thoughts. I. You know, for a guy who's coming off of what, 15, 16, I think 16 games for Notre Dame this year. That first drive, I referenced, like, the exhaustion that he must have been dealing with in that game, and I don't know that he ever fully recovered from it. Maybe late in the game, he did carrying, you know, that that team was a. Fifteen plays, like nine carries or something. Crazy. Yeah. An absolute warrior performance in the national championship game. And to turn right around and come compete here. He looked like fresh and like the weight of the world was off of him. The ball was coming out smooth. He's got a lot of work to do as a passer. He's not there yet, but, my goodness, he's got the frame. He's athletic, stronger than you would think, given his frame, kind of that linear frame. He checked in at his official measurements were 6, 3 and 3, 8. So almost 6, 3 and a half, 210 pounds.
- [18:51]
Todd McShay
So this is the difference in expectations though, right? When you come you Jaylen Milro, when you're coming in as a possible number three quarterback, maybe number four quarterback, people thought you would be an early first round pick. The different difference of expectations. I thought Riley Leonard had a good day today.
- [19:06]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [19:06]
Todd McShay
And it's it. And again all the credit in the world for showing up here and competing and that's it is a big day deal to do something like that. But there is a difference of expectations and you're looking at Riley Leonard as a potential backup in the league as a day three pick as Jalen Milro might be a franchise quarterback. So just to kind of keep that in perspective about how that affects how you're viewing a player.
- [19:27]
Steve Mensch
I'm not ignoring you and like texting people right now by the way. I just. No, it would not. It wouldn't be the first if you were doing it to me. I thought this was interesting. The other quarterback, big name quarterback and quarterback that I legitimately like am intrigued how he performs this this week and coming off a phenomenal year for Oregon is Dylan Gabriel. Right. Dylan checked in at undersized as expected. He's. He was five, ten and a half. Okay. 202 pounds thickly built for that frame. Nine inch hand span we talked about. That's kind of like the Mendoza line, if you will. A couple thoughts on Dylan but let's, let's just go with the fun stuff first. He so throughout the week and we'll talk about something like Zebra technology is unbelievable. Right. Jim Nagy, executive director here at the Senior bowl, he's done a great job of making sure that scouts have what they need. This has got to be the most valuable part of the evaluation process. Right. And in doing so, what's the technology that scouts are looking at? Zebra technology is utilized for the for miles per hour. What's the top speed? Play speed. And to be honest with you, and I know a lot of executives in television might not want you to know this because the combine coverage is so important. Right. And we have so many eyes on it. It's more important to me at least than a lot of scouts that I talk to. When you got pads on.
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Todd McShay
Yeah.
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Steve Mensch
When you're playing the game, what is.
- [20:59]
Todd McShay
When you're chasing someone else, what is.
- [21:01]
Steve Mensch
Your true play speed? So the 40 yard dash is. It is a tool that is absolutely utilized, especially cornerback and wide receiver and ironically at offensive line it correlates to success in the league, which is why we'll get to that when we get to the combine next month. But for now, the zebra technology, it's usually we talk about it in reference to the, the speed of players on the field miles per hour. Right? They also do this thing. They, they track the. It's called ball metric leaders. They had the ball metric leaders. And this, this I should mention is just from the national practice. This is the one with, with shock and Gabriel on that side at quarterback. Gabriel had the fastest initial air speed of 74.9. Now I read that 74.9 miles per hour. Okay. I was reading on, on X flipping through and I, it was like Josh Allen, one other guy were tied for the, tied for the most and are the fastest in terms of ball speed in at the combine where they also test it and it was like 64 miles an hour. Let's just call it that right now. I'll find the exact number. But the point is that's like 10 miles an hour.
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Todd McShay
Gabriel has a stronger than Josh Allen.
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Steve Mensch
That's what if you, if you just, well, that's if, if you're just going on social media, you're like, holy, Dylan Gabriel's got just cut this clip.
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Todd McShay
He's got to have him say that.
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Steve Mensch
Five, ten and a half quarterback's got a stronger arm than Josh Allen. So like, so first of all, the first thing I read there it's initial speeds coming out. I, I don't know. I've got to go back and talk to sources and figure out. Second thing is probably maybe they've got to like they got to correct it and get more whatever it is. But like I watched him today and I will say this. Dylan Gabriel had more zip on the ball. There's a ironic like I've done so many live games and have been out there. I, I just never had him at UCF or live in the sideline. I've never done, I never did an Oklahoma game when he was there. And, and I, I didn't go. I was here with you guys Saturday nights. My guy mensch, right. So throughout the season. So I, I, I haven't seen him throw live. So this is unbelievable tool to be able to be there and see him throw live. And what I saw on tape was above average, you know, like totally functional NFL arm, but not, not a good NFL arm. I saw a little bit more zip out of him today, but that was more like the intermediate throws. I'm interested as the week progresses, more vertical driving the ball, how he throws the ball. But I did feel like the ball was coming out of his hand really well today. But I also watched Josh Allen in Wyoming, the Mountain west championship game. I was there for that. It was negative 8 degrees. I was bundled up like a total idiot. Saw him there, saw him at the combine. Saw him here at the Senior Bowl. Josh Allen has a stronger arm. So we're gonna. We're gonna break news that.
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Todd McShay
Do you wanna. Do you wanna have that conversation now or do you wanna wait for the combine to talk about how important it is to see a quarterback throw live? Is that something we want to wait?
- [24:05]
Steve Mensch
I think kind of wait. But I. I mean, go ahead. If you got. Give me one thought on it. Let's. And then we can advance it when we get to the combine.
- [24:12]
Todd McShay
I think it's very difficult to gauge. You can get a feel for it. There's no question from watching tape how much arm strength the quarterback has. But when you see them throw live, you just get a better feel. Feel for it. I don't know if that's the most articulate way of explaining it. I don't have a scientific.
- [24:26]
Steve Mensch
Here's how I would put it when I evaluate quarterbacks on tape. And arm strength can also be the most overrated aspect of evaluating. Evaluating a quarterback. You can have the strongest arm in the world, right? I mean, Anthony Richardson has one of the strongest arms in the world. We'll see if he can develop into a great quarterback. Right. It's the mental process combined with the ability to place the football. Those are the top two training traits you're always looking for. But is it a factor? Absolutely. I mean, would you much rather have Josh Allen's arm than two A Tongue of Iowa's arm? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you would. It opens more things up for your offense. So here's how I would look at it, and we can move on from it. And I think it's a great conversation to have at the combine. I would say this tape gets me not only in the neighborhood of what a player's arm strength is, gets me in the cul de sac. Right? But there's like four or five houses in the cul de sac. And in terms of, like, absolutely narrowing down, like, that's the house, like, that's exactly what his arm strength is. You have to see it, right? That's the best way I can put it. And so for Dylan Gabriel today, it wasn't Josh Allen's arm. Like that. Don't. Don't believe what you're seeing. We were there and saw it with our own two eyes, but the ball snapped off. More bigger picture. We love his game.
- [25:39]
Todd McShay
Yeah, love his game.
- [25:41]
Steve Mensch
We love his game. Like the way he processes the thing that I loved watching today too, and it shows up on tape. But to see it live, like every rep, one on ones, seven on Sevens team. My goodness. Are his feet married to his eyes? And by that I mean like every, if his eyes are going there, his feet are married to it. You see so many quarterbacks especially like longer levered, taller guys, longer legs. It's hard to keep your feet moving and certainly like lower center of gravity, shorter quarterback, it's easier. But it's just his game. Everything's tempo, it's, it's deliberate, it's quick. Right. I saw a quarterback who everything was, I walked away from now seeing him live. And I've thought this before, but I really believe if Tuatanga Violoa's talent is here, right? And Josh Allen's is here and Patrick Mahomes is here, he's motioning, but yeah, sorry, I know a lot of people are audio. If it's a whole notch above for like the top tier quarterbacks, then you go a notch below for, for tua, right? Wherever that notch is just in your mind, wherever you think TUA is, talent wise, I think it's just a slight notch below is the talent level of Dylan Gabriel. Just a slight notch.
- [26:54]
Todd McShay
It's a great comp.
- [26:55]
Steve Mensch
But I think that, I mean the left side, obviously, you know, southpaw, throwing the ball from the left side. But like undersized, not great vertical throwers, not guys who are going to drive it down the field. But in terms of like processing the quickness, ball out on time, knowing where to go, always having an answer in their brain and bringing their feet in their eyes with it, like that's what I see in him. And so is there a starting role in the NFL for him? I'm not sure. But I also like, I'm open to it eventually in the right system, the right timing. Like you saw what, what, you know, what we've done with Miami and where he progressed. Mike McDaniel came in like it. I, I think he can be a very good backup who can win some games in the NFL and I'm excited to see how he develops throughout this week.
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Todd McShay
So are we a quarterback pod now?
- [27:46]
Steve Mensch
Okay, here we go. Okay, you know what I mean?
- [27:48]
Todd McShay
We'll get, it's non stop.
- [27:50]
Steve Mensch
We will get, we will get back to the offensive skill guys, but to your point. I got our offensive line resident. He's dying to tell you about North Dakota State.
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Todd McShay
All right, listen, let's get in the trench.
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Steve Mensch
Let's get in the trenches.
- [28:03]
Todd McShay
He doesn't want me to do it. It's not sexy enough.
- [28:06]
Steve Mensch
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- [29:45]
C
Is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime Whatever you're into, it makes it even better. I love because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables. I love being able to pop up the X ray thing that tells you what actors and what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them. If I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of Whatever you're into. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one. I can tell you this is true. I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time here with football, basketball, the holidays all at once. I can use my Apple Card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, it's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple Card today. It's easy. Just go to the wallet app on your iPhone again. That easy? Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com what stood out to.
- [30:59]
Steve Mensch
You in the trenches? I thought the second practice had, I mean, just dudes everywhere along the defensive line. The first practice I thought maybe a little bit better. Offensive line play. Who stood out to you? Who kind of really caught your eye and who are the guys that stand at this point after the first practice to really make some, some money, if you will.
- [31:18]
Todd McShay
The guys I thought really got up to a strong start. My first guy, North Dakota State offensive tackle Gray Zabel, who kicked inside to guard and center. And I mean, he was quick getting to the second level. He's quick getting off the ball.
- [31:31]
Steve Mensch
He was kind of the story today, right?
- [31:32]
Todd McShay
Man, he was so, so competitive. And this is what I mean when I say he's competitive. He not only was he competitive within the play of each snap, right, he was trying to get every rep that he could get some guys high or.
- [31:45]
Steve Mensch
They just want to get their one.
- [31:47]
Todd McShay
Rep, their two reps in, you know, I look good on that rep. I'm not going to be eager to get back in. This guy was trying like one on ones team. He was trying to get as many reps as he as he could. I turned to McShane, I was like, this guy came to work today. Like he came, he had a mission. And his mission was, I'm gonna show these guys that I will compete. Snap in, snap, snap out. And that can be great and you can still start losing and it doesn't look good. He was, I thought he was balanced. I thought he was quick, I thought he was tough. It wasn't all clean, but he had a great day.
- [32:16]
Steve Mensch
Interesting with him, right? Offensive guard is where we're projecting him. He's got the frame like physically six, five and three, eight through 316 pounds that jumps out at you at tackle. But 32 and a quarter inch arms. And just for anyone who doesn't know, there are certainly been great tackles in the league that have had 33 inch arms and their offensive line coaches who laugh and then there are other offensive line coaches are like I, I'm not dealing with 33 inch arms. Okay. Like 34 is kind of like we talked about the 9 inch handspan from pinky to, to thumb. 33 inch arms is kind of a 34, 4 inches kind of that Mendoza line for offensive tackles typically not for everyone. His are 32 and a quarter. So it's like that can be really, it can impede you. And why is it important? Because you got a lot of defensive ends that have 34, 35, some 36 inch arm length and if they can get into your body and do this and lock out against you, then you're like, you're like, like the 10 year old with his like 18 year old uncle trying to, you know, as he's holding your head down and you're trying to throw punches and you keep missing. Right. And so that to me he's a guard all day in what is kind of like a sneaky good guard class. And I don't want to spend a ton of time on this.
- [33:35]
Todd McShay
I think he plays center man. Okay. Happened today. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm at center. Advances that quickness too. I think he play that. I mean, mean you could look again add value to who you are and that versatility. He could play both. Right. You when you're trying to find ways to save roster spots and you got a guy that can play guard and center. I mean they're often. The NFL teams are looking for that all the time. The other guy I'm going to say is Virginia Tech defensive tackle. And these people's. Look, if you're 289lbs with shorter arms, 311 3/4 and you play defensive tackle, you better be quick, you better be disruptive. And he, he was all of that. He was living in the backfield today from the very beginning. I mean he was and he was fired up. He was excited. I love the energy that he was bringing. Again, an undersized guy better be disruptive. And that's what he was doing today.
- [34:21]
Steve Mensch
I'm going to go back to the interior offensive line for a minute. Like nobody wants to sit and drive in a car and listen to a show or like watch on YouTube. Nobody. Very few. I get it. But I also know that those same people are probably watching on Sundays and watching their. If they're a Bears fan, watching Caleb Williams get just annihilated, they're watching C.J.
- [34:43]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [34:44]
Steve Mensch
Right. C.J. stroud. Like, we can't protect him. Like, there's a lot of really talented quarterbacks that don't have the protection they need up front. And what excites me is you've got Armand Membu from Missouri. Could be a tackle, could be a guard. First round pick. Tyler Booker, Alabama guard all day long. He's going to be, some people think first round pick, top 40 pick, I think overall, somewhere in that range. Marcus Bowe, Purdue. We watched his tape yesterday together, you and I. Dicey Oregon game. Awesome versus Ohio State. Awesome Versus Penn State. Unbelievable athlete. Might be a center, played right tackle at Purdue. Okay, so there's a lot of good. And Zabel's another one. Right. So there's a lot of good interior offensive linemen in this class that it's going to be critical to teams as they start to build defensive front. You mentioned one guy.
- [35:38]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [35:38]
Steve Mensch
Who else stood up?
- [35:39]
Todd McShay
I'm going to give you some guys that I liked. What I saw today, I want to see a little bit more. Not that they had bad, bad days, but I'm intrigued by their frames. Like, you look at BC Edge. Donovan. Donovan as a raku.
- [35:51]
Steve Mensch
Yep.
- [35:52]
Todd McShay
And you look at him, you're like he's 6, 2, 2, 48, kind of undersized. And then you realize he has 34 and a half inch arms, kind of a 3, 4, outside linebacker build that kind of a player, explosive. He had probably the best of the. Of the three guys I'm going to talk to you about, he's probably the guy who had the best day. I think the UCLA Edge, Olu Wa Femi, Olu Dejo. I hope I'm saying that right.
- [36:16]
Steve Mensch
Apologies for as long as it took you to get out. I hope you got it.
- [36:19]
Todd McShay
I know, man. And I apologize if I didn't get it because, listen, I watched his tape. He's. This guy was an off the ball linebacker and I. If you look at what's happening with that player specifically, he's ascending. He was an off the ball linebacker. He moved to edge. He had a career year this year. I thought he was better at the end of the year than he was at the beginning of the year. Now you show up at the Senior Bowl.
- [36:37]
Steve Mensch
Florida State transfer, right?
- [36:38]
Todd McShay
I think so. I think you said that. Yeah. All right. Looks good. I mean, he and. And you're watching him today and maybe not making a lot of splash plays, but there's a, there's a bootleg and you see him sink his hips and redirect to chase the quarterback. He's moving really well. A guy that over the course of. Again, we're on Tuesday. We want to see the next two days. That's a guy I've got my eye on. And then really the Minnesota edge Jaw Joiner who is Long and 64263 guy. Have not watched his tape yet. I'm excited to watch his tape. He was flashing today. I think he was. Was he the fastest?
- [37:08]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. I'm pulling it back up. Right.
- [37:10]
Todd McShay
You know, there was some Minnesota on Minnesota violence today where he took on Ariante Usury and beat him with an inside move. Flashes again. I want to see these three guys. I'm intrigued by their frame, their explosiveness, their length. There are three players to keep an eye on over the next.
- [37:24]
Steve Mensch
Dude. Dude, you ready for this? Ja joiner is six'four 263 pounds.
- [37:28]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [37:28]
Steve Mensch
He's got 34 and 18 inch arm length. That's long arms. He was 19.64 miles per hour.
- [37:39]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [37:40]
Steve Mensch
On the zebra technology today at the Senior Bowl, What I say. Well, what I.
- [37:46]
Todd McShay
No, I didn't put the point on. I get it.
- [37:47]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. But I want people to understand like something like we're talking about, oh, you got up to 21, 21.4 miles an hour on that vertical rally for a wide receiver sometimes. So to be at 19.64. The second fastest was Mike Green from Marshall who's going to be a first round pick. Okay. I want you to understand, I'm just trying to put this in context. Like Ja Joyner. Not a lot of people out there know who Jod Joyner is, okay. And we're all learning together here. Mets was driving me crazy. I'm watching Dylan Gabriel, I'm watching Jackson dart, I'm watching Jalen Milroe, seeing how they spin the ball. I'm watching these wide receivers. I'm seeing if Elijah Aro is a good enough athlete to overcome the fact he's not a ball. All this stuff, right? With skill, guys, today he won't shut up about Ja Joiner. So now I look at this, now I look at the height, weight. Now I see a 19.64 miles per hour. I look at, I look at the Marshall first round defensive end, Mike Green, right? And he ran a 19.08. So a half a mile per hour below. Below what Joyner ran and he did that. Let's just look it up. What was his, what's his height and weight?
- [38:51]
Todd McShay
Mike Green was 6031, 251 with 32 and a half, 32 and a quarter inch arms.
- [38:57]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. So you're talking about like almost, you know, 13 or so pounds off of what Ja Joyner was, right?
- [39:04]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [39:04]
Steve Mensch
Talking about a full inch shorter than what JA Joyner was and running a half a mile an hour faster. And more importantly, the third fastest of the defensive lineman was Ty Robinson from Nebraska at 15, 8, 9. So we talk about a jump. The only other guy that was in his class was Mike Green who we know is going to be a first round pick. So if you want to talk about coming out on the first day of the Senior bowl and getting attention, it's a good way to do it like this. He, he was great on the field. You confirmed that. The measurables outstanding, the speed outstanding. Like he's got a lot of defensive line coaches, they're flying, flying into Mobile from all over the country being like, hey, a personnel director, hey, scouting direct college scouting director. Who's this guy? So I just, I love stories like that. Just one day of practice, all of a sudden this guy is like, yep, ascending, right, Agree. Who else jumped out?
- [39:57]
Todd McShay
I thought Josh Connerly had a great end of the practice. They had these one on ones in front of the whole team.
- [40:03]
Steve Mensch
The Oregon offensive tackle.
- [40:05]
Todd McShay
Yeah, Oregon offensive tackle Josh Connerly. They called up Eric. You know, they call up guys in front of the whole team and when you get called up in that, you know you're, you're a dude, you know that people are looking at you and they want to see how you do. And he just locked down the ucla. UCLA edge who? I was talking about his name that I couldn't get out. He just locked him down. I thought he was a little bit up and down early, but settled down and did really well. And then if we're going to talk about the other side of the ball, I'll say this. As a former interior offensive lineman, you do not want to see Walter Nolan on the other side of you. The Ole Miss defensive tackle is just a problem. I mean he beats double teams. You know, you could try to block him with two guys and he can still beat you with quickness, with strength. I thought he was outstanding today and it really wasn't surprising based on what you see on tape.
- [40:48]
Steve Mensch
I would not want to be an offensive lineman on the, on the American roster.
- [40:52]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [40:53]
Steve Mensch
I look out there, you Got you got Dion Walker from Kentucky who's 67340. Walter Nolan who's just an absolute dude out of Ole Miss. You got Jared Ivy from all from Ole Miss as well. You've got just go Omar Norman lot who's moving up this year. TJ Sanders A3 technique. Who I just watched his tape. I really like the way he moves and then you even, you know even some of the the outside guy like Baron. So Sorel Sorrel from from Texas had a nice day. Yep. Kyle Kennard from South Carolina. Shamar Stewart who we're in love with by the way. If you if you haven't looked check out mcshay@mcshay13 my my x feed mention I got. I mean we're locked in a room all day yesterday we had nothing else to do besides watch tape and and number four for Texas A&M. He's wearing 14 here in the roster. Shemar Stewart. Like if he's not a top if there are 20 other better players than that guy based off of the tapes we were watching yesterday and really drilling into him then I don't know what I'm doing. So there's just a lot of talent I can't wait to see. Like we said first day of practice, a lot of install and drills. They were physical parts. There were one on ones there were, you know there were groups and team run and all that. But tomorrow is going to be kind of a make it or break it day for these, these guys in the trenches in terms of the physicality and the toughness. Wide receiver, interesting group. Not the best I've ever seen here but still a lot of A lot of talented players just kind of go through the notes. I it was interesting. The Iowa State receivers both day two prospects. Okay. Jaden Higgins who's the bigger of the of the two wide receivers and then Jalen Noel, his teammate who's the smaller the ice. Five nine and a half. Five nine and three quarters. 196 pounds. I thought Noel really showed out today. I thought he did a great job in terms of his route running. I thought he was a player who could get off the line of scrimmage when when they tried to press him at times I was really just impressed with his game plucking the ball on the run. That's why I wrote pluck and run. Natural natural hand hand catcher speed. You saw a second gear year with him. Okay so Jalen Noel I thought had a really good day on the flip side and it was again it was Day one. But I expected Jaden Higgins, who's, who's a bigger receiver to come in and kind of out physical guys and, and yeah, have contested catches. Not the fastest dude in the world, but I expected him to be consistent catching the ball and make some plays. I thought he struggled today. Six, three and three quarters. So he checked in. 217 pounds. You know, body beautiful. Looks the part, but very. I just, when I watched him, I saw a guy who was struggling to show a second gear to separate and, and he had a big drop in the team session today and it just, it was interesting to me. But I also looked up too, and after writing a couple notes on him, I realized he's going up against a really good corner. Who, who's that number eight guy? Right? Who's. Who's number eight? And I was like, oh, no. Okay. So maybe it's okay that he's not separating Azaria Thomas from Florida State. And I mentioned in the open he was the best player on the field that I saw today. And again, I wasn't regardless of any position. And I want people to understand, like nobody watched Florida State after the first couple weeks of the season unless you were a die hard Florida State fan or a really good team was playing him and you're a fan of that team that, that program fell apart this year. But Thomas, I was so impressed with the way like you talk about easy speed and flipping your hips. Like he looked like it was like child's play to him. Guys making sharp breaks in, in, you know, in and out of their breaks and, and he was just smooth and everything was. When I watch cornerbacks, I want to see the, want to see the arm length, I want to see the speed, I want to see how they press. But most importantly, I want to see their movement skills. And is it, are they struggling? Is it like everything, hard work or is it easy?
- [45:06]
Todd McShay
Right?
- [45:07]
Steve Mensch
And it was just so easy for him today.
- [45:09]
Todd McShay
Even the way he's tracking the ball early, like individual. I mean you, you just individual right out of the gate. They're just throwing balls to the corners. The defensive backs, they're tracking it. Them, they're going up. And the way he's attacking the ball, the way he's controlling his body, I mean it was right out of the gate that you saw a different kind of player.
- [45:27]
Steve Mensch
I look at this cornerback class, right? And, and there are some, there are some good players. Travis Hunter, are we calling him a corner or wide receiver? We've talked about that. You almost have to break the evaluation up differently.
- [45:41]
Todd McShay
Thomas has 10 inch hands, by the way.
- [45:44]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Yes, that's, that's. What's his arm length?
- [45:48]
Todd McShay
32 and a half. With his height, 601-4191.
- [45:52]
Steve Mensch
So he's six one and a half. How long is the armor again? 32 and a half above average to good arm length. Like good arm length is corner 33 is like when you're like, oh, okay, he's a Seattle corner. Like he's. You know what I mean? He's one of those cover three guys. But that's like those measurables are, are they're not elite, but they're, they're very good. Check, check, check. Yeah. Big hands. Then you see the easy speed on tape and in person and you see the movement skills, the confidence. Like I thought it was interesting this week. Bill Belichick went through. I think it was on the pivot maybe like the, the checklist of that. Sorry. Nick Saban did. Talking about Bill Belichick and learning about defensive backs and what they look for in corners and like they kept bringing up and then we saw checklists come out. I've seen them before. Some, like 15 years ago, a coach who was on the staff at Alabama shared some of like the critical factors and things you look for, but so important to them. One of the things was how like, how comfortable are they? How effective, efficient and relaxed and productive are they when the ball's in the air, which makes all the sense in the world. And you can't measure it with a number. You can't get a miles per hour on it, but you know it when you see it. If you've done it long enough. And this guy's comfortable when the ball's in the air.
- [47:12]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Natural.
- [47:13]
Steve Mensch
And so that's going to lead to fewer pass interferences.
- [47:15]
Todd McShay
No panicking.
- [47:16]
Steve Mensch
It's good. Yeah. Like that. There's always that like moment of truth in coverage. Right Where. All right, I got out of phase, but I'm. Now I've worked my way back into phase, but I had to like overextend and I'm. And I'm like. And then I get to the point and now I go. And I go enough for the ball and I can't gather my like the body control. I can't gather myself calmly and like with body efficiency to get there. And if I can't get my head turned around, I've got to work my way up. From the way the technique DB coaches teach it, it's from. From belt buckle up through helmet without making any contact Right. You can't do that when you're overextended. But when you have easy speed and you're relaxing. Relaxed. When the ball's in the air, that's when it goes from, oh, he's good in coverage. He was there, but he didn't make a play. Or he was always there, but he's not, you know, he. This guy's going to make a lot of plays because of that. Yeah, I think he's got a chance to be a top 25 pick in this draft. And it was one day of practice and I started this whole thing off by saying, anyone who says like there's just. I saw one day of practice, he's the first round. I already had him in the first round. I had a first. First round. Great on him coming into this week. Mensch can attest to that. Right. But it confirmed like, yeah, all like I'm seeing it live with my own two eyes and we're seeing with a great competition, really good NFL level caliber wide receivers that he's like the best player on the playground. You know, he's like, he's the best. He's the best athlete on the court. You can always tell who's, like, who's the guy. He was the guy on the perimeter today.
- [48:47]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [48:47]
Steve Mensch
And that's awesome to see.
- [48:49]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it was awesome.
- [48:49]
Steve Mensch
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Todd McShay
From. Again, from start to finish.
- [48:52]
Steve Mensch
So that jumped out to me. I'm just going through some of my other notes. Xavier Restrepo, 200 pounds. He's built thicker than I thought in person. You know, I thought he had a really good day. The Miami wide receiver, five nine and about a quarter if you will. Five, nine and three, eight if you want to get technical. 200 pounds, that really good routes, knows how to get open catching the ball. Never going to be like that vertical big burner down the field. But you know what you're getting with Restrepo and we saw it today. I think from all the wide receivers though, the most impressive in terms of separation and difference making ability. But it comes with a caveat of I'm scared about his size was Tez Johnson. He was. And you gotta understand too, there's a lot of one on ones and seven on sevens. There's no pressure coming. There's not a lot of like there's some press, man, but when you're doing one on ones, it's really hard. The, the onus is on the cornerback to cover. Right, right. Because you got this whole field and there's no other traffic. So it's More challenging for the cornerback than it is the wide receiver in a lot of cases. But Tez was different. Like his inability to get off the line with his quickness, his ability to get in and out of brakes. He was a problem all day long. So, yeah, he's tight. Yeah. And it's a huge but. And I was concerned even before practice started. I turned to mention, I was like, look at tez, man. Five, nine and a quarter. 156 pounds, not 165. I was hoping, like 170. 156 pounds. That's a problem. And, yeah, he's coming off a long season. He's got a whole off season of bulk. He won't play at 156 in the NFL. He'll play closer to 170. You'd like to eventually get him to 180 without losing all the juice. That's going to be the kind of that. Finding that sweet spot for him. But he's always going to be a small, linear guy. And we saw him. I mean, unbelievable toughness in that. Who was. Oregon lost to Ohio State in that Ohio State game where every Oregon Duck it felt like was going to the locker room, going in the blue tent, all that stuff. He left the field, too, with an apparent neck injury, but came back on the field. Great toughness, unbelievable competitor. Great story to look it up, if you will. Like, what he had to overcome. You know, he lived with Bo Nix's family. Like, he had to overcome a lot in his life. So you're always pulling a little extra for guys like that. But. But as an offensive coordinator coming here, and I'm like, all right, can we get him to one, like, strength and conditioning guy, like nutrition people? Can we get him, like, 175? Okay. And can I get him as a number three and put into different. Like, there's some stuff he can do that. That no other receiver I saw had the juice to do today. If you can manufacture ways to get him clean releases and to keep him away from traffic and just give him a chance in space.
- [51:49]
Todd McShay
But how early do you draft a player like that?
- [51:51]
Steve Mensch
Great question.
- [51:52]
Todd McShay
I mean, that's. That's the tough call, right? Because I, you know how much I love him. Yeah, I. I mean, his burst after the catch, I mean, the 0 to 60 is insane. And I think he's tough. And I think, like, all the things that Todd's already been saying, I, you know, I just completely agree with. The problem is when I see that frame. And he did have some problems staying healthy Right. I mean he was. He was banged up this year. I mean that's concerning to me when you're looking at a receiver that size.
- [52:17]
Steve Mensch
I don't disagree. I don't. But I'm interested to see as we get more physical in practice as the week goes on, does he continue to.
- [52:26]
Todd McShay
Does he run?
- [52:27]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. But. Yes. Yeah. Stop focusing on all the negatives, man. Tez Johnson had a great day of today and he's probably going to be a third round pick because of his size.
- [52:36]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [52:36]
Steve Mensch
Is my guess somewhere in that range. But I think there's a place for him in the league. Is that number three, your number four, that where he can contribute and if utilized properly, he's got a chance to. To be an additional weapon. An offensive chess piece, if you will. Goodness, you exhaust me. I agree. All right.
- [52:53]
Todd McShay
Whoa. Talk about the other duck.
- [52:55]
Steve Mensch
Yes. Yeah.
- [52:56]
Todd McShay
Come on, man.
- [52:57]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. I wanted to see though. Jalen Royals big name all throughout the season, got injured late in the year, production wasn't as good as it was a year prior. From Utah State. I want to see more tomorrow.
- [53:09]
Todd McShay
Agree.
- [53:09]
Steve Mensch
I want to see more.
- [53:10]
Todd McShay
He's capable, right? Based on what we've seen, I think.
- [53:14]
Steve Mensch
He'S capable of more. I was a little underwhelmed today. Maybe it was a lack of opportunities and all that. Another two other receivers I want to mention real quick before we move off of it.
- [53:23]
Todd McShay
Come on, man.
- [53:24]
Steve Mensch
I know Shamir Dyke, I believe the Florida wide receiver. I don't expect him to run great. Probably a 4, 5 guy. Just based off of like literally watching him on. On tape and then watching him here. I think like four or five, you know.
- [53:39]
Todd McShay
Sounds about right.
- [53:40]
Steve Mensch
Okay. Six foot over. Just over six foot. 192 pounds. He catches everything. He had three of the best catches we saw all day long. Like one was in traffic pluck. Another one was. Was a great like away from the body, body adjust. Third one was an in cutting route. Got it with one hand and like kind of, you know, propped it back up and brought it in. I just a guy that you don't expect to hear a whole lot from when you've got other big name wide receivers here. I was really impressed with Dyke from Florida today. The other guy. You talk about someone who has been through a lot, man. Jack Besh. And like to his family and the tragedy that they just endured with their son Tiger, his brother Tiger Besh. It's worth noting that, you know, doing the right thing, Jim Nagy obviously and his entire staff thoughtful enough to make sure that it was Recognized this week. Tiger died in that. In that just horrific shooting and incident in New Orleans on New Year's Day. And. And he was a football player at Princeton. If you're not aware of the story and a great return special, then like all conference, unbelievable return specialist at Princeton, was working at Wall street, just everything going for him in life, right. Ivy League graduate, working on Wall street, great family and friends, and lost his life in that just unspeakable tragedy. And the fact that Jack has been able to use this as strength and rebound from that and be here because he knows his brother, like, as a former wide receiver and return specialist as well, there's just no doubt in his mind that his brother's like, you got to be here and you got to go compete. And what if you watched Marty Smith, if. Look it up on YouTube, the. The story that he told prior to the national championship game. Like, talk about like tears just streaming down my face. And I'm sure thousands of others, including his. His own, like, he got embedded with that family and was and. And understood just the depth of the tragedy of that family. Jack is a player. Player, though. And that's how Jack's brother Tiger would want him to be recognized this week. And we'll do that. Jack as a player had an awesome day of practice. He did. And you kind of can just feel the strength in him and what he's going through. Like, everything was intentional and done with with unbelievable pride and effort. Right. He's a. He's an intriguing prospect. Man, he really is. Six, one and a quarter, 215, 214 pounds. He's faster than. Than people want to give him credit for because he was a lot like, mostly like a. Not a possession receiver, but he didn't over a thousand receiving yards this past year. Started at lsu. Okay. Jack did after two seasons at lsu, transferred to tcu, had an okay year. And then it just had this huge. I don't want to say resurgence, but a huge jump in play and performance. Performance this past year, 62 catches, 1034 and seven touchdowns.
- [56:41]
Todd McShay
Every time he made a play today, getting one of these chicken wings.
- [56:45]
Steve Mensch
Yeah. Because obviously you're calling the story, but also like, okay, it's. It's not just the story. It's like this guy's a legitimate maybe a day two prospect. Like, he's that good and he's physical and just watching his tape, he blocks. He does the dirty work over the middle, but he's got juice, too. And I actually talked to Nagy. Nagy made the Comparison. He's not saying he is this or is going to necessarily be this because there's only, you know, you know, talking about the top tier. But if he said everyone's looking for the next Puka Nukua and you start to look at some of the traits and what makes Puka great and the strength after the catch and the running ability and the toughness and the blocking and the team first guy like keep an eye on Jack Besh, man, number seven, practice this week and obviously, you know, in his brother's honor. And everyone is wearing the decal as I was. I don't know if I even finished the story, but everyone's wearing the decal on their helmet in honor of Tiger Besh. So an unbelievable story but also on the field where Jack would, where Jack is focusing and Tiger would, would want the focus like he is doing an unbelievable job. So yeah, so that's that.
- [57:56]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [57:58]
Steve Mensch
Not the best in the business now. The best color man in the business. We lost. We lost Euchre too, man.
- [58:04]
Todd McShay
We talk about Terrence Ferguson or no, please go ahead. All right. Terrence Ferguson, the Oregon Duck. I thought the tight end had a great day. Separated well, good routes, caught the ball well. Just again a lot of like what we're talking about, what you'll hear over and over again is do they make the difficult look easy and if they make the difficult Colt look easy and it's natural for them, that's a player that you are projecting to have a successful NFL career for Ferguson. I saw that all day. The way he was catching the ball, the way he was getting out of breaks. He just looked good, he looked natural.
- [58:34]
Steve Mensch
You know what's interesting to me, I should say we came into the year and it was Colson Loveland, the tight end from Michigan was the clear cut number one most people were talking about. Colson Loveland is the number one one. Mason Taylor from LSU probably is the number two and Tyler Warren is the number two. Three kind of in that range. Right. Well, Tyler Warren went on to have an, I mean just one of the all time epic seasons and like record setting seasons in college football. Continue to develop as a player. He's going to be the first tight end off the board, quite honestly could be a top 15 pick, no problem with it. Like he's one of the best 15 football players in this class. Colston Loveland didn't have the best year quarterback issues there coming off that national championship year. All the issues that they have. Still a phenomenal player. I think he's Going to be a first round pick somewhere in that like 20 to 32 range. Okay. But it was Mason Taylor was kind of the assumed and Mason Taylor's here and you want to talk about body beautiful like obviously Jason's son, like he got all the genetics and more. He just looks the part. He's physically be built, he's athletic, he moves well. He had a great catch today on a play action. I think it was from Jalen Milro. A little off target. He had to reach out and make so he's doing good things. But I, I really just felt like and it was one day practice. I'm not, I'm just saying if you're dropped on this planet for one day and could only watch what we watched today. Ferguson was clearly like the, the best performing tight end. And I think to mention point, I just, just watching him I, I just saw a guy who, he made it look easy, you know, he just, he made it look easy. I, I wrote down like great double move on the post corner route. Natural mover. He, he knew how to like when to show his shoulders and flip his hips all like in like fluidly though some guys are segmented in their routes especially a tight end when you're those long levered six four type of guys and he's almost six five six zero four seven two hundred and forty five pounds. He's not the biggest but like he's got room on his frame to grow but he's just really smooth and effortless. Everything's with ease, reliable, gets open, good hands. Like what else do you want from a tight end? And I just underlined this makes it look easy they that I don't know. I thought Terence, Terence Ferguson was off to a phenomenal start and I think this tight end class as we get, get closer to the draft starts to get a little bit better. Elijah Arroyo, good group here.
- [61:07]
Todd McShay
He's standing out within a good group here. Like Mason Taylor is here. I don't, I think we were clear about that. But Harold Fannin, the kid who had the outrageous year at Bowling Green.
- [61:15]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, he's here.
- [61:16]
Todd McShay
Jake Brunningstuhl from Clemson, who's a talented player, he's here. Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech, he's here. And when you're, and these are all good players, it's all players I like. And when you're, you're, you're standing out with that group, it means that much more.
- [61:29]
Steve Mensch
Yeah, it means. And so let's see if he can carries this on through the week and then Obviously into the game on Saturday and then. Yeah, and you mentioned. I mentioned Elijah Arroyo, man, he, like, he looks the part. He is athletic. I think he's still kind of scratching the surface. That's. That's what I gathered from him. And I saw that on, like, he had a great start to the year, and then his production was kind of up and down, more downs, quite honestly, than ups. But it was that, like, Cam Ward game was outrageous. Yeah, yeah. Yes, Outrageous. But I want to see. Is it a byproduct of, like, Cam Ward, the system, all the weapons they had, they've. Martinez running back, they got Restrepo and a bunch of dudes at wide receiver was he kind of overlooked a little bit. But he certainly, like, he's an F tight end all day. Like, I don't need him to block much. Like, maybe crap, you know.
- [62:18]
Todd McShay
Hey, weight 250, though, which is good for him. Again, still an F tight end. But I was. I was happily surprised or. Yeah, happily surprised by that size.
- [62:26]
Steve Mensch
So lots a lot of excitement with the tight end group. Wide receiver, I think it's okay. It's an okay group. There's some guys standing out that we touched on. Running back is the hardest position. Running back and linebacker, two really hard position. Safety is always hard to evaluate, in my opinion, at least. But running back here is really difficult because what makes you great as a running back, it's not necessarily like, Emmett Smith is one of the greatest of all time. Right. And he ran like a 4, 5, 8 or something, you know, whatever it was. So it's hard to watch running backs, especially the first day of practice where there's a lot of install. There's a lot of seven on seven. There's a lot of, like, one on one. Yeah. It's the instincts, the vision, the knowing when to cut all those things that make a running back a great running back. So it's hard. But a couple guys stood out to me, me just in terms of their movement. I know. Shut up.
- [63:17]
Todd McShay
We're gonna talk about every player today. It's gonna be good.
- [63:20]
Steve Mensch
Do you get somewhere to go? I took you up to a beautiful dinner last night. Thank you. By the way, Chuck's fish.
- [63:25]
Todd McShay
Chuck's fish was on.
- [63:26]
Steve Mensch
We. We talked about Chuck's fish early in the year in Athens. Well, Chuck's fish, Chris Eddings, thank you very much. Service and food service impeccable. Food was phenomenal. You know, me and Marissa, we dined like champions. Like, I order the best. You did. You did the red snapper with the risotto. Yeah. Spoiled. I was going, oh, the running backs. So the running backs. A couple guys jumped out to me. I wanted to get to.
- [63:54]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [63:57]
Steve Mensch
It was. That's my guy. Earlier in the year from smu, right. I thought Burchard Smith. Here's the thing I noticed about Burchard Smith, because a lot of guys, like, we're again going through, like, Damian Martinez is an absolute nightmare to tackle. He's a grinder of a runner. He does all these great things on the field, competitive playing in the bowl games, pounding, you know, running over dudes. What did you gain from Damian Martinez today? Not much. Caught the ball pretty decent, but, like, there wasn't a lot to gain from. From today's evaluation process for him. Burchard Smith, though, is interesting to watch. I just wrote he's. And I don't think I've ever written this note, and it probably doesn't even make sense, but he's. For some reason, like, he was a sharp glider. Like, he was so smooth in his movements and everything was always advancing and he was kind of doing it with suddenness, but he's just so, like, smooth. Like, the way he was gliding in and out, I just know he was different. His movement skills were different than the rest of the running backs. And this is a talented group. Jarquez Hunter from. From Auburn. You've got RJ Hart, Harvey, who's going to be a day two pick from ucf. Trevor etn. Everyone knows coming out of Georgia, the. The transfer, Devin Neal from Kansas. Like, there's a lot of good running backs here. I thought his movement skills were different. Prashard Smith today, I loved.
- [65:13]
Todd McShay
He went up against. I forget who the defender was. And. And Smith ran an out route and he got. He got covered in the. In. The defender was talking all kinds of smack, yelling, pick up the ball. No way. The very next rep, I was like, oh, man, I've seen this kid run routes. Like, I'm not sure that's. This is not the. The dude you want to call out. And Smith comes up and, like, does this, you know, shakes outside for a second, then slips inside. And it was. I mean, it was over at the top of the route. I mean, it was before it even started. It was over. Catches the ball, runs downfield and, you know, just kind of looks back at him. Doesn't really say anything, but I was like, man, careful what you wish for.
- [65:52]
Steve Mensch
With that kid before we move on. I just. We'll wrap up here in a second. But I. But thank you, everyone, for for checking in. Like, this is awesome. Like, you got to remember I did this 15 years and it would be like, yeah, watch all this stuff. And, and come on, you got 90 seconds. Give me three guys that popped and make sure two of them are quarterbacks. Right? So to be able to do this with like my guy Mensch and to break down all this stuff and he makes fun of me because I talk too much. I want to talk about too many players. But. But this is great. And I hope you guys appreciate everything here and appreciate the, the, like the urgency of it. We're fresh off the practice field. We're here today. We're going to be back tomorrow on. On Wednesday. We're going to be back on Thursday after those three practices. So we're gonna. And, and I think on Thursday will be the approach appropriate time. And then we'll do it next week as well. To look back and start to mock draft by that we're gonna, we're gonna mock it up. Next week we're gonna mock it up. I think it's next week and the 10th of February is when we're going to mock it up. We'll give you all the details as we get closer, but the important part is thank you for watching. Please click the button. Subscribe. Like all the stuff that helps us stay in business, we get producers and cameramen. We all want to feed our families. Like, we need to keep this thing going. But also make sure that you're back tomorrow because we. Tomorrow is the most important day, I think, for a lot of positions, especially in the trenches. Wednesday's practice, make sure we'll be here. We'll pump it out as quickly as we can get it to you. We also had an awesome conversation with Nick Casario, the. The real general manager, how he was just like some of the stories with Bill Belichick and the. This process. So we're going to do that again. We got Eric D. Costa. We're going to try to bring in as many general managers throughout this process leading up to the draft. Kind of the similarities, the differences, the processes, what drives them still, how they're building their roster, stuff that I don't know, I feel like they want to share because they don't often. They're just. They're always the guy that's coming out and saying they cut the player, they signed this player. We, we won or we lost. You don't get to see enough of the guys that really build this roster. So we're going to feature that moving forward as well. And we'll we'll have information when we're going to share these GM interviews that we're doing. Let's just wrap it up, man. Tomorrow, Wednesday's practice. Give me a couple guys that you're really excited to watch and what you're kind of wanting to see.
- [68:18]
Todd McShay
It's Jaw Joyner. I mean, we hit on it. But I'm just going to say it again because I just want to reiterate. Yeah, it's the Minnesota Edge Jaw Joy winner. I really want to see him. Have a good day. I'm also very intrigued by the Ole Miss Edge. Jared Ivy. I think he's kind of, you know, he's in that middle tier. I've been higher on him. I thought he flash today. He's got good tools. I kind of wanted to see him take it to the next step and elevate his game. And hopefully Armand Menboo, who did not practice, the right tackle for Missouri, whose tape I love, hopefully he's able to go tomorrow. We'll see how that goes. But if he can go, he's a player to keep an eye on.
- [68:52]
Steve Mensch
I mentioned Thomas, the cornerback from Florida State was like clear cut, best player. If you were just dropped on this planet for one day to watch, like, he just, he was awesome in every area that you would want a cornerback to be awesome. But I also. Maxwell Hairston from Kentucky, man, did he have a good day, too. I always keep this notebook and I'm not going to. You guys can keep. Keep a notebook. Where to, like, tiers of guys just off of practice this week. Like, what I'm seeing. Who's that elite tier, Tier two, tier three. I've got him like right in that. Is he the bottom of tier one? Is he top of tier two? He's a guy. And I'll move like, this page will be unrecognizable by the end of the week. But. But it's something I'm just keeping an eye on. He's a guy that I think is going to keep getting better as the week goes on. And I thought he was really good this week, the cornerback from Kentucky. And I, I know I'm a sucker for it, man. But like Jackson Dart, now that he's got the installs, now that he knows his receivers, this is like, this is his chance to shine. He's got Wednesday practice, Thursday practice. He's a competitive dude. He's the alpha. Like, is he gonna. I want to see him become like, stand out, like, take over this team. Parking orders now. He knows what the orders are like, I want to see him kind of, we've seen it before. I've seen something like Josh Allen from day one to day two. Justin Herbert, Justin Herbert, Day one to day two, I go back like, like Carson Palmer back in the day. Like the great ones. Elevate, right? Baker Mayfield, like, we've seen guys come here and just elevate. I want to see that from Jackson because there's a lot of buzz and a lot of guys in his corner that even I wasn't aware of coming into this week. So that's going to be the biggest storyline here. And Jalen Milroe, what's the progression day one to day two? How does he, how does he progress from a day that was not ideal, but it's a jumping off point and let's see where he is on day two. And yeah, I mean, there's a whole bunch of guys. But, but that's. And Josh Connerly, that's my guy, man. Going back from a long time. Good day. Want to see more, want to see him dominate, want to see him show the, the athletic, athletic skills. It's going to be a big day for him and a big day for all these players. So once again, we appreciate you being here. We appreciate you joining us throughout this entire week. We'll be back tomorrow. From my good friend Steve mensch, I'm Todd McShay. We'll see you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support and in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.