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The McShay Show
Senior Bowl Primer: Finding QB3, Ranking Position Players in Mobile, and an Unforgettable Tim Tebow Story
01:30:24
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- [00:00]
A
It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. You thought December was the most wonderful time of the year. Well, you're wrong. The NFL playoffs are just about here. And there's no better time to bet with America's number one sportsbook. Bet on new and fun markets like to catch a pass, same game parlays highest scoring game across the Sunday slate. Offensive touchdowns in the next drive and so much more. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus get exclusive offers all playoffs long. So download the app today and bet the playoffs with FanDuel. An official sportsbook partner of the NFL. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com it's finally here. It's officially NFL draft season at the McShay show headquarters. Let's kick things off properly today. M. What do you say?
- [01:13]
B
I'm not going to panic this year, McShay. Just kidding. I'm already panicking.
- [01:17]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's right on brand. Listen, is Cam Ward now the clear leader in the clubhouse as QB1? The NFL Draft? FanDuel is going to kind of give us some insight on that. Plus, will the Senior bowl become a QB3 sweepstakes of sorts? We'll explain. And then finally, we're going to go through the Senior bowl roster and use today to draft the top prospects in Mobile at the strongest position. The college football season is in the books. It's conference championship week in the NFL and just 91 days until the NFL draft meant. You good?
- [01:52]
B
I'm good, man.
- [01:53]
A
Tickle me those sweet beats, would you, Tuck? Jim Nagy always says the draft begins in Mobile, right? The draft. The draft starts today for us. Let's not, I mean, let's not kid ourselves. I know that makes you nervous. I know there's only 91 days left, but the college football season's over. It was an awesome season. 12 team playoff. First time running through. We've got changes to make moving forward, no question, but an unbelievable experience. And it was the start of. Of this show For Us, the McShay show and, and really got us kicked off. Great. Excellent appetizer into our entree, right? I mean this is. This is our. Our bread and butter, if you will. And. And we Appreciate everyone being with us through the bumps, the bruises, the highs and the lows, all of our live shows, the community we're building. It's been a fun ride, but now it's time to honestly, it's time to get serious. And we're putting together our draft boards. We're going over our rankings, we're watching tape sitting here, you know, with the clicker, going back and forth, watching tape on all these players. Next up in line is the Senior Bowl. Mention I and a crew from, from the ringer. We're all flying down on Sunday. We're going to be there Monday. We've got weigh ins. We're going to do a lot of interviews on Monday. Please join us next week. It's kind of like today's the unofficial kickoff for us. We're going to preview everything and kind of get, get things rolling. But we kick into high gear next week too with the Senior Bowl. We're going to be there two all week long, but Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we're going to have shows following each day of practice. The practices are the best match. I mean, take people through it real quickly, like from the one on ones, the seven on sevens, the team groups. Like how important that process is.
- [03:53]
B
It starts with, I mean, for me being the former offensive lineman. It's the one on ones with the defensive line, which is an outstanding group this year. The one on ones with the defensive line and the offensive line, just getting them to see them go best against the best. Who competes, who has a good rep, who has a bad rep and bounces back. You see things like you want to see how guys hold up in pass protection if they're a running back or maybe they didn't catch the ball a lot in college. You'll see them go one on one against linebackers and both pass protection and in the receiving drills. The 7 on 7 stuff is great. Quarterbacks, you know, can quickly get labeled as check down Charlies. If they're taking everything that's easy and just trying to get through the drill or they being more aggressive and pushing the ball downfield a little bit. And it's three days of that, of just guys competing against each other. The game's great, it's, it's awesome at the end, but it's really those drills of seeing the best against the best, going at it, being competitive, that's the reason you want to go down there.
- [04:44]
A
And you mentioned the trenches being kind of the strongest group and it really is. Looking at this roster, I looked yesterday. Men, you ready for this? On the American and national defensive lines. Right. For the senior bowl, the two rosters, I had four first round draft pick potential players in the first round and, and 12 on day two. That's 16 guys that could hear their name called in the first three rounds of the draft. So that's going to be fun to watch. And let's not forget too. And I think a good portion of what we'll do. Yeah, we'll interview some coaches. Like, this is never going to be a big interview. Bring someone on for a half hour and, you know, talk about how important this offseason is. Like, I don't want to do that. I, I always fast forward when I'm listening to a podcast. I always change the channel if I'm watching. You know, like I do. I'm just going to be honest.
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B
Right, right.
- [05:32]
A
If we're going to bring someone on, there's going to be a reason, there's going to be something that we've seen that they're doing that we're intrigued by that we specifically want to talk to them about. And probably only like a couple player interviews, typically maybe some quarterbacks that I think are most intriguing just to get to know them a little bit. But what I find fascinating is always so valuable to me. And this is our opportunity for the first time ever that I've had it in like 25 years of doing, of doing television, radio, print media for the NFL draft, where we can like really get into the conversations and not obviously, you know, expose anyone we're talking to, but what are the conversations going on with general managers, scouts, coaches that we're having with them, that they're having within their organizations. I think that's going to be a fascinating part of what we do. The top two quarterbacks are not going to be at the draft. Right. And it feels like every time we come on the show, there's more news, there's some kind of update. I do think it's important. Let's start things off today as now the college football season is over, all the bowl games are done, the College Football Playoff is over and kind of a state of the union, if you will, at the quarterback position and at the top of the draft. I think it's fascinating. And again, neither of the top quarterbacks we're talking about, Shador Sanders from Colorado and Miami's Cam Ward will be at the Senior Bowl. I should note Shador Sanders is going to the East West Shrine Game, which is taking place this week. He's not going to be participating. He was there Basically as a deal made with, with the East West Shrine Game to help get a lot of their late round free agent prospects from Colorado to, to be a part of that bowl and give them an opportunity. And I applaud him for that. Like I. There's no problem in that. He's, he's helping his teammates out who have helped him out through the course of his career. But I want to in a little bit get to the QB3 discussion and how I think Mobile and the Senior bowl specifically is going to absolutely play a role, and we've seen it in the past, is going to play a role in which quarterback is drafted third overall in terms of the quarterback position in the 20, 20, 25 draft. But right now, did you see this on Fanduel Mensch or good partners at Fanduel, they, they keep, you know, they keep updating and I talk to our guys, I talked to, you know, Tucker and Connor and Dan. We're gonna, we're gonna create like a stock market where we, we track it over the course because I think it's fascinating.
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B
I love that.
- [08:02]
A
And really, in the last like three years, it has legitimately become something that not just us in the media track, but like, I'm literally having conversations with general managers who are like, hey, why is it on FanDuel that that all of a sudden Jane Daniels and Caleb Williams are like neck and neck for the number one over. What are you hearing? It's like a jump starter to these conversations. Right? And, and fanduel isn't like they're, they have information. And so there's a reason why. Okay. And so I find it fascinating, if we can put up this, this graphic we have take a look at this is the odds to be the number one overall pick in the 2025 draft. Okay. Shador Sanders a while ago and again we'll, by next week we'll start creating a stock market where we can track this. But I find it fascinating that when Tennessee got that number one overall pick and all the buzz about that organization favoring Cam Ward over Shador Sanders, when that came in, Cam Ward went to the top of the odds and replaced Shador Sanders. Okay, so that's the first part of it. The second part that I find fascinating. Let's keep this up. The second part I find fascinating is that we've already had a change in leadership in Tennessee and in the front office ran Carthon was, was sent packing, you know, and so, so why has that not changed, even with new leadership? And the third part that I find Fascinating. You look at these numbers, it's cam ward, number one, number one overall. The top odds, I should say at plus 105. If you're not watching on, on YouTube, I'll, I'll keep you up to date. It's cam ward at plus 105. So he's got the top odds. Highest odds, Travis Hunter at +155. So he's favor he's more heavily favored to be the number one overall overall pick. Then Shador Sanders, who's at listen this number bench +360, high number and then beyond that, like they're huge drop in numbers. But I do think it's interesting just to see the information FanDuel is getting in terms of guys and where, where they may slot in the draft because obviously, you know, I, I don't think Will Campbell, the guard tackle from LSU is going to wind up being the first overall pick. But the fact that he's sixth in the odds here behind Cam Ward, Travis Hunter, Shador Sanders, then Abdul Carter at number four, Tetaroa McMillan at number five, and then Will Campbell at six ahead of Kelvin Banks, the tackle from Texas, very interesting to me. Mason Graham is up where he belongs at number seven behind Will Campbell. Jackson Darth, that's a great way to transition. Jackson Dart, Kelvin Banks Jr. Quinn Ewers, like way off Will Johnson. I wish you could short some of these. Will Johnson, Mikel Williams, Jalen Milroe, James Pierce, Nick Scorton, defensive end from A M, Luther Burden, wide receiver from Missouri, and Ashton Jinty, the running back from Boise State. Round off the. The group of players that were involved in this and this odds in these odds from FanDuel to be the number one overall pick.
- [11:20]
B
What do you think they know? Do they know. Do they know that Tennessee favors Ward or do they know that Dion's not letting his kid go to Tennessee?
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A
That's interesting.
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B
There's two ways to look at that, right?
- [11:33]
A
Yeah. And I, I actually, when I was putting this together, I was, I wanted to ask you kind of that question. Even if it's not, even if it's not Coach prime saying that Tennessee, I haven't heard. I've heard a couple places. I have not heard Tennessee being one of them. Have you?
- [11:52]
B
No, I've not. I've not heard that.
- [11:53]
A
I heard some rumblings about Cleveland. Right. Trying to say there were a couple other places and we're going to get Coach prime on between now and the draft and we can go through all of this with him. But, but I do wonder Too. I think there's two parts to this when you're evaluating, like, what you're getting. Okay, the first part, to me, if you're favoring Cam Ward over Shador, Shador is the best passer in this class. Best pure passer. His instincts as a passer, not in the pocket. His instincts as a passer when the initial play breaks down and he's scanning the field. His ability to throw, a timing, trajectory layer the ball, ball placement, touch, all of those things are what makes him a potential good starting quarterback in the NFL. Now, does he have elite arm strike? No, it's good. It's not elite. Does he have elite mobility? Absolutely not. It's actually when he takes off to run, he's not overly mobile, which is surprising, is Coach Prime's son. But what he has is an ability to locate and throw the ball more effectively than any quarterback in this class. On the flip side, Cam Ward is not as developed in terms of progression reads. Seeing the whole field. He's. He's not as consistent with his ball placement. A lot more frozen ropes on throws that could use a little bit of, you know, finesse behind them, those sorts of things. But he's got a stronger arm. He's more mobile, not. Not an elite. Not elite mobility, but more mobile than Shador. And he kind of creates more. The arm angles and the ability to break some tackles and different things like that. So from a physical tool standpoint, I think the team that is, that winds up. If a team winds up taking Cam Ward over Shador, it's the traits to develop both players. I'll say this. Let's just get this out of the way. Both players are absolute dogs. Competitive nature, their will to win, showing up in big moments like toughness, taking hits, bouncing back. Like both players are equal in terms of some of the intangibles you look at. I have heard that Cam Ward's kind of legendary in terms of leadership, demanding from teammates. You're getting someone who's going to come in and kind of have that veteran approach already. And so while Shador is great in that department, I think Cam's like, weirdly high level. Okay, so that can all factor in. But then I also wonder, too, if you're sitting there in a front office, does it factor in at all? And I'll ask you this question. Do you think it will factor in at all? How much of the circus are we getting with Shador? And to no fault of his own, but all. Everything that comes with, in terms of, like, the media attention the commercials, Coach prime and kind of the outside noise that can come with that. Not dissimilar from Tim Tebow. Right. I mean, there are some places that when Tim Tebow didn't work out in, in Denver and he was trying to find somewhere else to go, remember they had like a press conference about a backup quarterback coming to play for the New York jets and like it was a media frenzy. He was a backup, you know, like. So I wonder how much that factors in. It has to.
- [15:22]
B
I mean, you're pick, when you're picking potentially your quarter, your franchise quarterback, you're making that kind of an investment with potentially an early first round pick. We'll see how this unfolds. But I think realistically it's probably going to be an early first round pick. You better factor in everything. You better know what you're getting and you better be ready for it. I will say the flip side of that is, and we've mentioned this before, is that Shore has shown that he can handle the circus, that he can be, you know, kind of the eye of the storm when, when things are crazy and there's a lot of press and, and there's a lot of attention on a Colorado team that, you know, probably wasn't going to get a lot of attention other than the fact that Coach Prime's the coach and he's the quarterback and obviously Travis Hunter but, you know, got a lot of attention and he handled it well. So I think you look at that if you're a big market team and saying this kid's kind of ready, he's, he's tailor made for this high pressure situation because of some of the stuff he's already been in. But yeah, you bet. I mean, you have to factor in everything. That's why reports are, that's why interviews are so important. That's why medical is so important. That's why doing all your background checks, just sitting down with a player and do you, is there a good vibe, for lack of a better way of saying it, are you guys on the same page? Do you feel good about, you know, spending all of the hours that you're going to need to spend to be successful with this human being and do you feel like you can win? Because that's, it's important. All of that is important. We put so much emphasis on the tape and I think that's the correct way to, to evaluate players. But this is a, it is a wide and a broad process that you have to put a lot of different resources and instincts into.
- [16:53]
A
It's going to be fascinating. It really is. And we look at the top of the draft. Tennessee picking at 1, Cleveland at 2, Jack Giants at 3. All need quarterbacks. Check, check, check. If you're watching on YouTube you can see the graphic that we've built. Patriots at four and Jaguars at five. Not in the quarterback market but right after that, Raiders at six, jets at seven and then down to number nine, the Saints. All those teams. Right. Six out of the top 10 need a quarterback. There's only two. And if we're being brutally honest, jumping off point is what quarter QB 4, 5. Last year. If you're putting these guys in the 2024 draft, class changed and I thought it was interesting too. Tennessee's. Was it the president that came out of the organization? I don't have the name in front of me in the press conference.
- [17:44]
B
Right. And said they were already looking to trade back or we're entertaining it. Pretty much put out the for sale sign.
- [17:51]
A
Yes. But also stated that we're. We're not going to be in the business. Something along the lines I'm paraphrasing. We're not, we're not in the business of passing on a generational talent. So immediately I saw Schefter was they're not, you know, read between the tea leaves. I see it differently. Face value, it's hey, Travis Hunter's a generational talent. We're not going to pass on that. I've been in this game too long and Schefter has too. But Schefter's just kind of reporting the news. It's our job to then. Okay, let's read between the lines here. To me, in a class that doesn't have a quarterback like we had last year with Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, okay. Even maybe depending on what you, how you viewed it, J.J. mcCarthy, Bone, Michael Penck, Bo Nicks. Okay. In a class that doesn't have that quarterback and what you and I have just recently talked about building organizations. Right. The Detroit Lions, the, the Baltimore Ravens, San Francisco 49ers like building from the trenches out getting it right. So when you get your quarterback, you plug it in. That's the way to go. That's how the consistently good, the consistent play. Even the Seattle Seahawks back in the day. Right. Consistently good. When he got Russell Wilson plugged him in, they had everything kind of sorted out for that moment. I, I look at that and, and I, I read it between the lines of come and get them. Ah, come and get them.
- [19:23]
B
Right.
- [19:24]
A
Because we're going to take them. We're going to take him. And maybe we're talking about Abdul Carter, but I think most people would say generational talent is something that you haven't seen in a generation. There's only one player in this class that is a generational talent by those standards. That's Travis Hunter. Have you, have we in our generation seen a player both sides that many snaps, that effective as receiver and a cornerback, that. That's a generational talent? I think Abdul Carter is phenomenal. But Micah Parson, Micah Parsons has been in my generation.
- [19:58]
B
Agree.
- [19:59]
A
Do you know what I mean?
- [20:00]
B
I do.
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A
So I, I think that that was. We're open for business. If, if you don't want to come up and get them, we're going to take him because there's. Yeah, there are some teams that want a quarterback, but it, it's a rare year where there may be a bigger market for a team to say, Travis Hunter's different, special, best thing in this class. Let's give away a little bit to go get him. I don't know. That's how I read it.
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B
You take Travis Hunter with the first overall pick in this class.
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A
No.
- [20:31]
B
Yeah.
- [20:33]
A
Look, I think I take Abdul Carter if I'm not taking a quarter, if I'm not sold on the quarterbacks. I'm taking Abdul Carter because of everything we've talked about. And I don't want to get into another 20 minute rant about it. I basically just summed it up, the trenches. Let's, let's build the trenches, pass rushers, let's make sure we're protecting our quarterback. Let's get dudes up front both sides of the ball. And I would take Abdul Carter and you never go broke getting a profit in the draft. And you know, Abdul Carter is going to be a prophet. He's going to better your football team in one of the. In, in probably the second most important area on your roster.
- [21:09]
B
Right. And so you're not going to trade up to get him at pick one. You're not going to give up another asset or another couple assets to go up and get him. I agree. I love it.
- [21:18]
A
I think we're going to see a lot of teams that want to trade down this year because this, this class is loaded with depth. There's a lot of good players in this draft. There's not a lot of elite players. Okay, agree. So that part's all fascinating to me. It really is. And, and I, we went a little longer on it than I wanted, but it's like this is the most important part, the top of the draft, the quarterbacks and who else could be there and the messaging coming out of Tennessee and, and, and teams like Cleveland and the Giants sitting behind me, like, all right, well, maybe that maybe they will pass in the quarterbacks. Maybe we'll have our choice or maybe our guy will fall to us, you know, But I mean, we've seen it before this. The top two quarterbacks in this class are better than the Kenny Picket year. I get it. They are. But it's more sim similar to that year where we saw. We were wondering, like wonder, is Picket going to go way earlier than he should? Is Malik Willis going to be a first round pick?
- [22:11]
B
Yeah.
- [22:11]
A
You know, all those guys. So I, when it's all said and done, if the first two players taken in this draft are Travis Hunter and. Or Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter in. Either, either way, 1 or 12 respectively, it won't shock me.
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B
Nope.
- [22:31]
A
And that means the Giants would be on the board at 3 and have a quarterback that they want. So it's all going to be fascinating to see how it plays out. And you know, the patriots sitting at 4 would ABs. Listen, the Patriots at 4, it can work out one of two ways. You either want both the quarterbacks to go, right? You want both the quarterbacks to go so that you can get your guy either Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter at 4, or you want at least one of the quarterbacks to fall to 4. So the teams behind you that we just touched on, Vegas at 6, jets at 7, New Orleans at. At 9. One of those teams would be more likely to move up to four to go get a quarterback than they would pay that exorbitant price in draft capital to move up to number one or two. Okay. And that would allow the Patriots to move back, get pretty much pretty close to the same value in player at. At 6 or 7 or 9. If, if Hunter and Abdul, If Hunter and Abdul Carter are gone, you're. You're desperate to move out of number four is my. If you're New England because you don't need a quarterback. So give me more picks. We're building this roster. We need, we want to take advantage of the depth this year and also try to get a first round or at least a second round pick next year. So that's how I kind of view things as we stand right now. Who is QB3, though. I see that smile. I'm smiling too. Let me, let me go through a little history for you. Okay? I'm going to read off a bunch of names. Okay. The similarity, the tie that binds with all these names. They were not QB1. Only one of them went on to be QB1. But none of them were QB1 going into the Senior bowl. And the rest of them didn't even wind up being drafted is QB1. But they all significant. I don't want to say they all improve their draft stock with the way things went at the Senior bowl. Okay. Jordan Love, eventually the packers draft pick in the first round, Justin Herbert, Chargers first round. Jalen Hurts actually improved his draft stock. We were talking third round. He wound up going early second to the Eagles or second to the Eagles. I don't know the exact pick. Daniel Jones, like one of the just butcher jobs of all time, drafting him as high as they did.
- [24:58]
B
Don't hold back. Don't be afraid of it.
- [24:59]
A
I, I never will. Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield is the exception. He wound up being QB1 in that loaded class of talent coming out, right? But he wasn't going into that weekend like two weeks before the draft that it was, it was shocking that there was kind of rumblings, right? Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton and Tim Tebow. That's why, that's why when we start to look at this year's quarterback class, right? And we've got two quarterbacks that aren't going to be playing in All Star games, even though Shador is going to be at the East West Shrine Game, but he's not expected to participate at all. And we start to look at the fan duel numbers, right? And I don't think for a half a second, not even a second, a half a second, that Jackson Dart's going to be the first overall pick or Jalen Milro is going to be the first overall pick. But I do look at those two and say we got an interesting battle for QB3. And some people might say, Will Howard, I'm not there yet. I recognize the growth in his game. We talked about it in our reaction show, our live reaction show to the college football national championship game. But I think Jackson Dart and Jaylen Milro have phenomenal unique opportunities in Mobile. And, and I think this is. And the reason it's critical is because they're working with NFL coaches, they're in NFL meeting rooms, they're throwing NFL balls, they're. They're working against competition in NFL schemes to show things that they didn't show at Alabama and Ole Miss respectively.
- [26:39]
B
Right?
- [26:41]
A
I'll never forget the Tim Tebow year.
- [26:44]
B
Me neither. I mean that was a circus. That was a Guy who transcended sports. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't, you know, you get people down there who are Florida or Alabama fans or. And they come in to see watch their players and you get the big stars that are just college football fans want to come and see that. Tim Tebow was a rock star. Tim Tebow was the Beatles in Mobile. Mobile that week. I mean, we used to. He would take off his helmet after every rep. There was people just taking pictures. It was just. It was a circus. It was actually. It made it tougher to highlight other players that week, which was frustrating, but it was, you know, that's not Tim Tebow's fault, but it was an absolute circus that week.
- [27:24]
A
So a little bit behind the scenes on this, right? Kuiper never leaves the Kuiper compound. That was the whole deal. Like, and I joked about it for years. Still do to this day. Kuiper's like, nah, I'm good. I'm not going. The combine he went. We got him to the combine one year. He's like, yeah, no, that was so much fun. I love this. We should do it next year. Fast forward nine months later, we start talking about the combine with ESPN executives and he's like, no, I'm out. I'm not going. So. So I'm at that point in my career. What is that, the 2010 draft? 2011? Somewhere in that range, Maybe later than that. But yeah, 2013 maybe. I'm. I'm kind of early in the TV thing and I'm just kind of. I'm grinding my up, right? And so all of a sudden we're down in Mobile. We've been. I've been going to Mobile, the Senior bowl, since I was a senior in college. When we were at Richmond, I went to the Senior bowl and I went to the combine. Gary Horton, you know, flew me down and just kind of got. As an intern, right? So I'd been going for 99, you know, 13, 14 years already. But this time it was like, holy, what is it? They said. So, so ESPN sends down the college game day bus. Curtis, our driver, remember we would go between practices and sit in the bus like we're g. You know, where the game day stuff, eight screens in the backdrop, camera set up in their little studio. And now like, what we used to do, TV wise before Tebow was at the Senior bowl, was day of practice done. Todd, come on. 90 seconds, instant analysis. They'd send a producer down who would also run the camera. Bare bones. I do 90 seconds on a quick summary. Here's how the top two quarterbacks played and one guy who's rising right, and they'd ship it off to Sports Center. They'd run that same clip on like five different shows. Now all of a sudden, I'm in production meetings like the Wednesday before with like top executives. They're like, we're sending the game day bus. We've got five camera members, camera crew, people going down. We've got producers, directors and executive. Like, I was like, wait, what? And so we get down there and it's an absolute circus. It's always like, Mobile's the best. It can never leave Mobile, Alabama. They embrace this game. It is their. Like it's their baby. And it's what makes the whole, the whole situation special. But we get down there and mind you, Mel's never disliked a quarterback, okay? That's part of his secret sauce. And, and we'll have Mel on a couple times lead up to the draft and I'll. And we'll. I don't shy away from anything with Mel, as everyone already knows. But Mel has never hated a quarterback back. Mel likes some more and pushes them, but he's never been like, n. I don't think that's going to work out. So I got Kuiper back in, in Maryland from at home in the Kuiper compound doing, doing bits with me. He's watching some things on TV and not even getting like full access to the practices. I've done all the tape from the season. I'm at the practices and I'm watching these things and you know, my stance. Like, no, I don't see, I don't see it. Like, I love Tim and I said it 100 times that year. Tim Tebow is the greatest college football player at the time I had ever seen. Leadership, the toughness of winning. Like, he's, he embodies everything you want. I couldn't. I just absolutely love Tim Tebow. My, my mom and my sister hated me for my stance on it. It got really bad because I was going on these clips and being like, how was Tim Tebow practice today? But you know, like, it's all this media hyping. We've got all these executives and the game day bus and all this stuff has like, has the NFL world and media is there. Like it dropped in, in Mobile, Alabama and they come to me on camera and I'm like, yeah, he, he's very inconsistent with his accuracy. I don't see an NFL passer. He doesn't have anticipation as a passer. His release is. And I don't think that. I don't think his brand of football is going to work in the NFL. And then I got Kuiper responding and saying, you know, I love his competitiveness, and he's a winner, but he's not saying he loves him. He's just. He's playing the good cop, my bad cop. And that's when it all starts. I became the Howard Stern of the NFL draft. And so it was like the hardest few months of my professional career. Just in the backdrop, personally. It was difficult, man. I'm not joking. It was hard.
- [31:47]
B
You didn't work with Urban Meyer until years later. Right?
- [31:50]
A
I can tell that. I can tell that story, too, in a minute. But. But what I endured was. Was hard. I'm a young guy in this profession. I have not made my way. I'm not. No, people weren't mad, Mensch. They were enraged, like, scary. I get done with that week at the Senior bowl of all the negative talk and trying, you know, me, good and bad competitor. He's a winner. He's all these things. But I mentioned maybe he should move to tight end, which he eventually kind of tried, right? Yeah, but all. And then all the negatives. So I come back from the Senior bowl and like, the. Howard. I mentioned Howard Stern, because Howard Stern always says, like, the people who love me listen for. Remember that movie, right?
- [32:33]
B
Yeah.
- [32:33]
A
People who love me watch. Listen for like, 53 minutes or whatever or 7, 17 minutes. The people who hate me watch for two hours.
- [32:41]
B
Right?
- [32:41]
A
Kind of. That's what that's was like, this negative, positive thing that was happening in my career. People hated me. I was public enemy number one nationally and, like, worldwide.
- [32:52]
B
But real quickly, you know who didn't. Do you know who didn't hate you?
- [32:55]
A
Who?
- [32:55]
B
A lot of the scouts, a lot of the front office guys who are walking by, giving.
- [32:59]
A
I became. I became a mouthpiece for them. Like, enough's enough. Enough's enough. Like, there's a. There's a ton of really great football players here and pro prospects, guys.
- [33:09]
B
What are we doing?
- [33:10]
A
Who deserve attention? And only one player is getting attention. So we had that. But I get home, mensch, back in Boston, and I have letters, and this is like the anthrax time. I've got letters coming in, in the mail. I don't know if I've ever told you this. I. Letters coming in, hate mail. I don't know how people got my address.
- [33:30]
B
That's fun.
- [33:31]
A
And I'm opening up. One of them was a three page Letter from a pastor from a Baptist church who was really mad at me and was. The quote I'll never forget was, I'm praying for your hatred. And so, like, I go through all of that, and meanwhile, like, people want me on all these shows, so it's, like, good for the career. But personally, I'm struggling. My mom's calling me, pissed off. She's religious, my sister. They're religious, very religious, and they're upset with me, you know, so. So I'm going through all that. And so now I got the pro day in Gainesville. And remember, that class was loaded. That was Urban's gem, you know, Joe. Joe Hayden, all the pastor. Like, it was. It was a loaded class. And so I'm down there. I'm excited, you know, at the pro day in Gainesville to watch all these players do it, but I also know what I'm walking into. And Tebow's there with his brother, right? And his brother's got to start a production company to kind of document all this stuff. And. And so now I'm. Now I'm going in the bowels of. Of the. I'm there talking about Thibaut and his workout and how he's throwing, and it's not all positive again. And when that's all done and I'm doing sports center hits and all NFL live, all those shows, then when it's done, Tebow's brother brings me into, like, the bowels of the swamp, into one of the locker rooms and wants to interview me. So that was uncomfortable. I'm walking out of the. The swamp. I'm walking out of what is Ben Griffith stadium, right? And Mrs. Tebo pulls me aside. Oh, tough one, right? And it's like, listen, sweetest woman I've ever met, Ever met in, like, a short spare span of time, you know, like, yeah, could. Could not have, as you would imagine, Tim Tebow's mom, beautiful, wonderful woman, like, just salt of the earth. She pulled me aside. She's like, listen, I know you're going through a lot with, you know, with. With Tim and. And the Bash backlash, and I just wanted you to know that I'm. I'm praying for you. And. And. And quite honestly, thank you. You've. You've provided my son with motivation, you know, so it's a good thing. And so now I'm like, oh, gosh. And my mom's mad. My sister's mad. Tim Tebow's mom's not mad. She's praying for me. Like, it was hard. It was hard. Right.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah. There's a real human element.
- [35:51]
A
There was a real human element, all of this. Yes. And so that draft goes. Goes through. He gets drafted in the first round. Josh McDaniels falls in love with him. I'm blown away maybe, maybe I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe I'm wrong. Josh McDaniel, look at the success he had with Tom Brady in New England. Like, maybe I'm wrong. And then he goes and wins a playoff game against the Steelers. Right. But then the rest, the rest is history. And I can, I can live on the evaluation, but then fast forward. Right. And you just mentioned Urban. I wasn't gonna bring this up. I'll just give you a quick story. We can dive more into it later. Urban takes a year off after Florida, right? Before going to Ohio State. Comes and works at espn. I've been doing all these game day hits and traveling around. The executives call me and say, hey, listen, we know you have a good relationship with Urban. We want him to be. To do a weekly hit for game day. And we, and we like a feature. And so we're going to fly you down to Gainesville. And I was like, I don't want it, like, to kind of host this. Anyway, they talked me into it. It's the right thing for the company. I'm a company guy. So I'm going down there every Tuesday, get down there Tuesday night, stay at a hotel, get there Wednesday morning. And we would tape something all throughout the day. We'd watch tape and hang out. I played with this, played football with his son, like, became closer. But the first time I walk into the house, like, this is how naive and stupid I am sometimes, right? I pull into the gated community where Billy Donovan, Urban Meyer, like, they all just a beautiful, very nice community. Need the code. Text my producer and. And I'm like, what's the code to get in? He's like, whatever it is. 3, 1, 9, 4. So punch in that number. Gates open. I'm driving in. It's literally not until I never. I can still picture to this day, I'm pulling up houses on the left. I see like a production thing that's definitely espn. This is definitely the house number. Here we go. Going over the little bump to go down the driveway to park my rental car. And not until I got over that bump did it hit me.
- [37:52]
B
Oh, no.
- [37:54]
A
Oh. Urban's family is like family with Tim, right?
- [38:02]
B
Yeah.
- [38:03]
A
And I'm like, this might be uncomfortable. How did that not process in the week leading up to this? Thing. So, so now I'm kind of like. And it's like 97 degrees in early September and in Gainesville. And so I'm starting to sweat and so I walk to the front door and I'm like. And door opens up. It's Shelly, Shelly Meyer. And she said, she doesn't let me in. She shuts the door behind her and says, we're gonna have to talk this thing out. And I was like, I was like, yes, yes, Mrs. Meyer, you know, and I'm still like younger. I'm like. And so she lays into me, you got it wrong with him. I can't believe. He's like a son to me. He's one of the greatest human beings. And you've sat there for four months and I just, I don't know if I can ever forgive you. But I'm a, you know, God fearing and Christian. I will forgive you, but it's hard and, and I just wanted to get, you know, I wanted that. I wanted us to have this conversation. So she finally after for her. Oh, absolutely. It was great giving it to me. Lets me in the door and, and we proceed. And by the way, Shelly and I are great now. I went down and hung up when they were. Jacksonville sat in the box with her and daughters and, and, and, and Tim Tebow and I are great now. We worked together for years. It was awkward at first. Tim and I are good like, and he understands the job I was doing. We've. We've come to a respectable place. But anyway, I don't know how I got on that tangent. But from that point on, the Senior bowl elevated absolutely my career, but it became much more of a national big picture thing. And it also, and it wasn't because of Tim Tebow and all of that, but it was a good example of how a good week in, in Mobile and being around coaches and the interview process and what goes on behind the scenes. And that's why I say it's so important when we talk to coaches and scouts about the stories going on. How are they in, in the room? How are they with their leadership behind the scenes? There's so much that can come from that. So in the longest detour of all time, let's get back to. I know, but I do feel like I, you know, we're, we're 41 minutes into this thing now. We haven't even gotten to like the second thing I wanted to talk about. And you take the floor because I, I can't. I haven't shut up yet. QB3 the opportunity that these guys have, and I say specifically Jalen Milroe and specifically Jackson Dart, what are you looking for from them? How do you think this will play off, play out throughout the week? What comes to mind when you think of those guys with QB3? I think, is there anybody else at QB3, sorry, anybody else at QB3 that is in competition, that is chosen or, or cannot, in Quinn Ewer's case, because of injury, needs to, you know, recover. Understandably, that's not going to be there. That maybe it will hurt them or maybe by not participating, the other two guys will kind of expose some things.
- [41:02]
B
I think that to knock this out real quick because I want to get back into the Senior bowl guys, I want to focus on them. Yeah, Quinn Ewers, I think his stock is the lowest it's going to be in the process right now. I think this is where he's going to start climbing back. I still think he has a potential to be the quarterback three in this draft. I, I, I feel like a lot of people are writing Quinn ers off. I feel like he should have gone back to school. That doesn't mean those, that, that doesn't mean that he can't be quarterback three in this class. It's not a great class. As, as far as the guys going down to Mobile, I think that Dart's in the pole position to be that quarterback three guy. I mean, I just love his game. He had 52 touchdowns compared to 11 interceptions. This guy's way more mobile than I think people are. 38 starts. I love the way he distributes the ball. I love the way he makes touch throws. I just think he's in a real good spot to shine down there. I think Jaylen Milro has the most, this is the most important week for anyone going in there because I have some concerns about how Milro finished the year and, but the talent is there. There's absolutely no, you know, there's no mistaking the fact that this kid has the tools to be a great quarterback and he has the leadership skills and all that stuff. Don't get me wrong, the intangibles all seem to be great. So he just had the, the last six, five or six games of the season were brutal. I think he had three touchdown passes. Two of them were against Mercer. He threw five picks. The Oklahoma game is a nightmare. It's an absolute nightmare. He was inconsistent. You look at that the first half of the Georgia game, I think it's made him a lot of money. There's a reason People talk about it. It was an amazing performance for that half. I haven't seen a lot of that. I haven't seen any of that since then. I haven't seen it consistently over the course of his career. But this is a kid who could go down to Mobile and just wow people with the way he interviews, wow people with the way he spends it. He could have a great week. And all your sudden you're saying, oh, things just didn't work out in Alabama, you know, like Saban left and it was a different thing and he didn't have the weapons that some other guys have had. You start justifying it, you start rationalizing.
- [43:04]
A
We've seen that before.
- [43:05]
B
And for that reason, I think that Milroe has a chance to be quarterback three coming out. But to me it's. Dart is in the pole position.
- [43:15]
A
The tough part about Mobile is you can't have this expectation that just a few weeks ago that Jalen Milroe is, is going to improve his footwork, his timing as a passer, his ball placement on anticipation, throws, all that. You can't. It's just, it's unrealistic. Right? But you can. Here's what I like to do when I go down to Mobile with the quarterbacks, especially picture it as a blank canvas. You haven't seen any tape before, okay? Erase it, just temporarily erase it from your mind and see. Okay. They're all in new systems. They all have wide receivers they're not familiar with. They are all working with a new football, they're all dealing with new rules. They're all going through this grind with the media, interviews and you know, bouncing from here to there, interviews at night with NFL teams, all that stuff. They're all going through this grind together. So it's like it's a fair platform across the board because they're all having to do it and they're all having to make that same transition. How? Show me what you have that I can work with. If I'm a quarterback coach, offensive coordinator, head coach, what. This is the blank canvas. Show me what you have to work with. And we know what he has mobility wise. There's like, don't need to see him so much as tuck the ball and run for three yards. We know what he has. Show me how quick you are in your drops when, when put in a position. Show me how, how you're picking up from day. And I love this too. From day one to day two to day three, are you progressing? Okay? Right? Show me. And this is critical. We'll Talk about it during the week and I don't want to bog down this show right now, but like for quarterbacks, the red zone, typically on like Thursdays they do a lot of red zone tight spaces, tough decisions. Where's your ball placement? Are you, are you putting it high? You know, is a ball floating in the middle and, and putting yourself in a position of risk, which he has done in terms of a turnover in the red zone, which is like a mortal sin, or are you, are you driving the ball low and making sure your receiver is the only, the only one who can get it? Are you protecting the football? Are you making quick decision? Because in the red zone everything speeds up and it's confined. So the. Throughout the week I want to see those sorts of things. We know he's got the huge arm, we know he throws a great deep ball. But how is he without. Without, you know, seven on sevens without the defense? Like do you have what it takes? Are you showing me promise that there is that there? If, if myself and my staff can unlock it. So that to me is going to be the most intriguing thing for both of the quarterbacks. But especially with Jaylen, I also like.
- [46:00]
B
To see how they are around these guys. And, and Justin Herbert, I remember when we went down there, he was coming out of Oregon. There were kind of some. He's kind of a, he's kind of a quiet guy, he's kind of a different guy. He gets down a mobile. People just gravitated to him. The players gravitated him. He became, you know, he wasn't what you think of as a typical alpha in terms of loud and brash and all that. He was the alpha there that in that quarterback class he was. Guys just were attracted to him. And it's easy when you go to school and you're a four star or you're the quarterback and you're kind of the ordained leader and people are going to just gravitate towards you because the schools put you in that position when you show up in Mobile for a week. And these are all really good players, sometimes great players. Can you, within the first, you know, practice get these guys to buy into what you're doing? Can you get them to come along and, and really kind of follow you? And I thought Herbert did a great job of that. I always like to keep an eye on that with the quarterbacks to see who's are these guys gravitating towards.
- [46:58]
A
This quarterback McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. There's nothing like the NFL playoffs. It's one big game after another. And you know what? Big games deserve bigger payouts. That's why FanDuel is giving all customers a same game parlay profit boost every game day during the NFL playoffs. It doesn't matter if you're new to FanDuel or already have an account, you'll score a bigger payout if your SGP hits. I just hit on a two leg same game parlay in the College Football National Championship. Oh the feeling when you see your account jump like that. It's gold. So let's keep it rolling. This week I'm going to go the AFC Championship game same game parlay. Hear me out on this. Josh Allen under 284.5 yards. That's rushing and passing combined under 284.5. I just think Steve Spagnolo, he's going to have a plan. They're going to limit Josh Allen. This is going to be a great game, but I think Josh Allen is going to be a little bit more limited than what we're used to seeing. Then on the flip side, let's take the over on Patty Mahomes. One and a half touchdown passes in this game. I do think they're going to have to win through the air in this one. I think Mahomes is going to spread the ball out to his different receivers. I think Mahomes over 1.5 so let's combine those and hit on this SGP so don't watch from the sidelines. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to get in on the action. That's FanDuel.com McShAY to get a same game parlay profit boost every game day during the NFL playoffs. Make every moment more with FanDuel an official sportsbook partner of the NFL must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com a lot of other positions of strength and I didn't want to do on the show where we sit down. Let's go through the best players. Let's go through each position. I want to do something fun that makes it interesting but also provides like a really good jumping off point to the Senior bowl but not just the Senior bowl to like to the draft in and of itself. So I want to go through a few positions. Let's do it with quarterback real quickly.
- [49:24]
B
Yep.
- [49:25]
A
But then let's, let's, let's branch out. I want to do wide receivers, which is not a great group in as a whole and reflected kind of with the, at the Senior bowl, but the running back position, which typically has been not a great group at the Senior bowl and, and kind of hit and miss from draft to draft. But this is the, arguably the best running back class in terms of depth of talent we've ever seen since we've been doing it at least. And, and it's, it's also reflected in the Senior bowl roster and then the defensive line that I mentioned. 12 day two guys, four first round prospects. Like we, I want to, so I want to do a. We'll call it draft them. I don't know. We don't have any. We don't have to be like cute and have all sorts of, you know, graphics and fun stuff and music. But I do want to do a quick draft them. Let's just rip through this and give, give our audience a feel of like, who are the top guys? Who do we like going in? And then I want to revisit it in, in 13, 14 days after we're done with the Senior bowl, after we've been down there, after we've come back and watched the game, after we've. And kind of revisit and take a look. All right, what changed? Right? What changed? So here we go. Quarterbacks, I'm going to give you the first, the first pick of these quarterbacks. I think I know where you're going to go, but if you, if we're going to draft the top four quarterbacks from the Senior bowl roster, that includes Jackson Dart, Jaylen Milro. Jaylen Milro, Riley Leonard, Seth Hennigan, Dylan Gabriel, Will Howard. So the Louisville quarterback's name, last names changed. Tyler Shuck, Tyler Shock. And then we also have a Canadian quarterback who we're getting literally just a couple hours ago we realized it is on there. But he's certainly not going to make their top four. So of those quarterbacks, you get the first pick from the Senior Bowl. Quarterbacks, who are you taking?
- [51:12]
B
I'm taking dart for all the reasons I just mentioned. I mean, 38 starts. Again, the touchdown interception ratio is good. I know people are concerned about the system. We won't know until, until we find out more and see how he does down there. So yeah, for all those reasons and again beat Georgia. He had some tough games Florida was tough, but he beat Georgia and South Carolina this year, beat LSU last year. He's played in a lot of big games. Experienced guy that's going dart first and I'll go Milroe.
- [51:36]
A
It's kind of, you know, we, we just discussed a whole lot on that. So Milroe would be the, the number two for obvious reasons. Number three is where it gets interesting. Who, who are you taking there?
- [51:46]
B
I'm taking Howard. Look, here's, here's my concern, okay? His completion Percentage jumped about 10 points this year. Is it the system? Is it, Is the, Is it the supporting cast? Is it all of those things that have made him drop, or is he getting better? He had some inconsistent games. It's kind of a theme. He had some inconsistent games early in the season, and then I thought he had a really magical playoff run. So is he peaking at the right time? Is he got the right players around him? Tell me a quarterback that's not better in the right system, with the right players around him, though, you know, that's, that's just a. You know, we, I think sometimes we over. Overthink that a little bit. I just think I would go Howard third. I think you look at the frame, you look at the mobility, the way he played in the playoff. I know he missed a couple throws, but he was accurate. He spread the ball around. I loved his decision making in the championship game.
- [52:31]
A
I went, Howard, I'm going, Dylan Gabriel, number four. It might be a surprise. Some people would say, well, why not? Riley Leonard, national championship game, the run. He had really intriguing size, mobility, right? Intangibles, all those things. I just think as a passer and a processor, Dylan Gabriel, who's undersized, who doesn't, you know, doesn't have that. The prototypical frame. I'm just intrigued by him. I'm. I'm just as excited to be. To be honest with you, to watch Dylan Gabriel coming off the season he had and the improvements he's made at every stop from UCF to Oklahoma to Oregon. And you called him the Terminator, like, right, like, almost like he has, like the numbers are flashing in front of his eyes and just the way he. And, and yeah. Did he finish with his best performances in the College Football Playoff? No, he didn't. So I want to see how. How is he rebounding from that, but more importantly, how's it translating with. With NFL offenses, new receivers, all. All those things here in this, in this environment. So Dylan Gabriel would be my fourth.
- [53:41]
B
If he's 6, 2, 2, 20 is he in the quarterback one mix? I think so.
- [53:45]
A
Yeah, maybe.
- [53:46]
B
Yeah, I think he is. I mean that's the kind of player he is. It's the, it's the, and I don't.
- [53:50]
A
Even think it's, it's like if his traits, if it's kind of like Madden, right? Like my son's always dad, did you know he's a 93 or dad, you think he's so good. Matthew Stafford's only like an 84. And I'm like, okay, but like that doesn't rule the world that, right? You know, a Madden rating. But it's almost like if we could, and I, and I watch the kids here, like they create players, right? And they, and they, they bump each, each, you know, accuracy. You can bump it up a little bit if you do these certain things and if you could just kind of bump up a couple of his physical traits.
- [54:23]
B
That's what I'm saying.
- [54:24]
A
A little stronger arm a little bit, a little bit bigger, right? Like I, I think, yeah, I think he has a lot of the, the things that you look for. So I'm fascinated to see that. All right, those are the quarterbacks. We've exhausted it. Wide receivers, let's only do the top four. Let's just get it kind of our, okay, our, you know, dip our toes in this just a little bit. Top four receivers, if you were to draft right now, where would you go at number one?
- [54:53]
B
It's, it's tough and I think I have a couple curveballs, but I'll go Utah State wide receiver Jalen Royals, who missed I think five games this year with a foot injury. So I'm glad he's going to be down there. That's going to be. He played seven games, averaged 119.1 yards per game before he hurt his foot. He is, I love him after the catch. Makes guys miss. He's quick, he's got great contact balance. He's not overly big at 6, 205, but he can play. He can be a number two at that size. Makes contested catches. I just think when you look at overall his body of work and his talent, I, I, I think he's probably the best one down there.
- [55:30]
A
I don't totally disagree, but I, I, the fascinating part to me is there's a bunch of guys competing right for that, for like and, and I do think there will be movement. I, I just love going down to mobile and knowing that there's a cluster. Right. None of these guys are first rounders, but there's a whole Bunch of guys on day two. That includes the two Iowa State guys, Jaden Higgins and Jalen Noel. It includes Jalen Royals includes Ellic A Manor. Which by the way, I guess apparently everyone's been pronouncing his name wrong and we just looked up like the way he pronounced it. It's Ellic is his first name. We all know that. I've heard Iomanor Aumanor. I've heard all Amanor. But we've just listened to him actually pronounce his own name, which is kind of a helpful tool. And it's Manor. It's a manor. Okay, so Elic Amaner and then Tez. Tez Johnson's another one from Oregon. So all of those guys are kind of in a competition and in a cluster and have a great opportunity here in Mobile to separate themselves. Right. Like, like Jaden Reed was an awesome example a couple years ago from Michigan State. What he did right and, and he wound up being an earlier second round pick. People were saying like third or fourth. I fell in love with him. He was clearly the best receiver there. And it's translated to the NFL and the thing in the return game that we saw that week, how naturally was catching it, how quick he was, that that is played out in the NFL as well. With that as a backdrop, you've got Royals first. I'm going to go with A Manor as number two. I think he's going to have a big week. You got to remember this is a guy who's not had a quarterback, has not had protection in the offensive line for his quarterback, which limits the amount of opportunities you're going to get down the field and all that stuff. But what I've seen from this guy, 6, 2, 2, 10, he's not the fastest, but he's not slow like he can.
- [57:26]
B
He.
- [57:27]
A
He kind of sneaks up on you down the field, tracks the ball extremely well. Excellent hands, sneaky vertical, as I said, contested catches, really solid route runner physical. And in that offense with that quarterback situation this past year he had 63 catches, 830 yards, 13 yards per catch, six touchdowns. So I want to see him here again. Equal platform, equal opportunity, a chance with the same quarterbacks throwing to all these receivers to, to just showcase what he can do.
- [58:00]
B
I don't hate it. This catch against Syracuse was unbelievable. I wanted to catch. Yeah, I will say that I had him number five, which I think is interesting. Of the guys, these guys, I've ranked them. When I went through, I like I am going with a guy you didn't even mention Illinois wide receiver Pat Bryant.
- [58:16]
A
I haven't done his tape yet. I'm just gonna be honest.
- [58:18]
B
He's. Yeah, that's fine. He is. He can't listen. I, we should all be honest about that. There are so many players we gotta into and that's why I'm panicking. If you caught the opening, there's so you know, you want to make sure you got enough tape on everyone. He's the only player. I got this off his website, so I hope it's true. But it's the only player off the Illinois website. Only player in the nation with three game winning touchdowns in the final two minutes or overtime this year. Which I think is interesting. Kind of gives you an idea that he shows up in big moments. Average 18.2 yards per catch this year. I love the track and adjust. He is for a guy who's 6 foot 3, his ability to contort his body to make back shoulder catches, to adjust to that deep ball, take the top off the coverage. I think that's really his, his superpower. If you're going to talk about what these guys are elite at in terms of, of their what. What jumps out in terms of their skill set, that's what it is for Pat Bryant. For me, I think maybe people are sleeping on him. I think you could have a big week and be the guy that comes out of there of like oh, I liked Pat Bryant, but I didn't realize he was that good.
- [59:19]
A
Number four is a struggle for me. I can't on. I can't unthink the conversation I had with the scout about smaller receivers. Scare me and then start to think about all the smaller receivers. Right. And Tez Johnson like he is a stick at dynamite. But what happens when you press him? What happens when physical DBs durability has been, you know, he's been in and out of games. Toughness though I, we saw in the, in the college football playoff against Ohio State. Everyone was getting knocked out of that game. He got knocked out and came back in. But I worry about that with Tez and I want to watch him this week, you know, getting off the line, he's so quick and all those things. So I'm going to go in a different direction. I'm going to go with Jalen Noel. I was interesting but I, but I, I fully recognize that Higgins is kind of considered Jaden Higgins. The other receiver, 64215 is considered the, the better prospect. Only true. Two drops all season. Excellent hands, polished. But I, I'm I guess more so than anything, I'm just intrigued to see. See Jalen Noel, like with his speed and what he can do more out of the slot. But half as many of his snaps came. Came out wide. He can, you can move him around the field. He had 1194 this year. Average 15 yards per catch, 80 catches, eight touchdowns. One out of every 10 catches was a touchdown. He runs deeper routes and gets open vertical. That's what I see. Like that Translates to the NFL. 12, 15, 17 yard routes. He runs those and runs them well. So I want to see him this week and I fully recognize that he wouldn't be on most boards the fourth receiver of this group. But I think he's got a chance to elevate himself this week.
- [61:10]
B
I love him. I had him up there too. I mean he is. He's built like a running back and he kind of plays like a running back in terms.
- [61:16]
A
Yeah, he's five, he's, he's. He's listed 511, 200.
- [61:20]
B
And his, his toughness over the middle, the way he returns punts, the, the how he is after the catch and he could separate. He's got a lot of juice, man. I'm interested to see how he runs because I know, I watch his tape. I'm like, he's explosive so I like him. I did go with Higgins. I want. I had Higgins ranked a hot higher than him. So I'll take Higgins here because he's the bigger body guy and that's what scared me off of Tez too. You know how much I love Tez. I think he's so good and so explosive. But that smaller receiver and how it translates, I think he's listed at 165. Gonna be a big weigh in for him. Let's see what he comes in at.
- [61:54]
A
Put some nickels in his pockets, right?
- [61:56]
B
So Higgins for the same reasons you talked about smooth catches the ball. Well, he could take the top off the coverage. You really like that? Nickels in the in the pockets.
- [62:05]
A
Comments. I just like how the reason I'm smiling is that I like how you. We're so. We're so used to each other's that you just ignored it. You just totally ignored it. Like. Yeah, whatever. So many tricks. Any running backs anyways?
- [62:20]
B
Loaded running back, let's move on.
- [62:21]
A
Loaded running back group. Let's keep it rolling, man. There is you talk about clusters. It's a cluster bleep at running back. Like there's so many dudes, right? Let me just rip off some of the top names. I'M not going to go through all of them, but a lot of there's a lot of guys that are in that day two range. Right. And. And I'm not going by how the rankings are. I'm going by how they're listed on this roster I'm looking at. And a couple guys that I've already featured is. Is. That's my guy. Burchard Smith is one of them from smu. Undersized former receiver Jarquez Hunters another. That's my guy from Auburn. Then Trevor ETN from Georgia, Devin Neal from Kansas, RJ Harvey, ucf. That's all on one roster. The other roster, Ollie Gordon II coming into the year was considered by a lot of people, RB2 or RB3. Okay. Then Khalel Mullings. Monster year for Michigan. Former linebacker Damien Martinez, huge year at Miami. A lot of scouts are really high on him and hoping that we don't kind of blow up that spot. So with that as the backdrop, I'll give you the number one overall pick here for the Senior Bowl. Running backs, where would you go?
- [63:32]
B
RJ Harvey from ucf. I had not watched a lot of his tape before this. Man, he is fun to watch.
- [63:38]
A
Yes, he is.
- [63:40]
B
He had 131.4 rushing yards per game this year. 2022 Touchdowns Productions all there, 20 catches, which is good enough for me. I feel like he catches the ball fairly well. But first thing that jumped out to me, I was like patient with great feet and burst. I mean he is an instinctive runner. He can get in and out of gaps. He can make guys miss in tight spaces. And then when he turns it on, he turns it on. But what I and I think that's probably his best trait. But what I love about him is he's 5 foot 9, 208 pounds and he runs angry. He's got that compact build where he's stronger than he is big. He's not that big 220 guy, but he runs angry. And the way he finishes runs, I mean he can just run over guys when he gets into space. I was super impressed with what I saw on tape.
- [64:24]
A
Yeah, I don't disagree. He would have been my number one too. But again, there's not a big gap here, man. Just a reminder too. We're talking all the Senior bowl stuff right now. We're going to be there all week long, taping some interviews on Monday. We've got the weigh ins. Get prepared. Tuesday practices, Wednesday practices, Thursday practices. As those wrap up, we'll go back to the Convention Center. I've never had a radio row spot there before. Kind of awkward sitting there doing a show with all these people walking by and. But I've done way more awkward before, and I just told you the Tim Tebow situation was the peak of awkward. So I think we can handle it. But please join us, like, if we're going to cover this top to bottom, and not only just the Senior bowl prospects, but also, like, how it. How it plays into the bigger picture of what's going on. So we'll have shows Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday of next week. Okay. And so just, you know, keep checking in. And. And. And also we've got a whole crew coming down. Like, the ringer's behind us, man. Truly. Like, we've got. We've got producers coming now. We've got camera people and production group. We've got people help setting up the interviews. We've got folks helping with the social media, with our presence there. We're going to be on. On YouTube. From what I understand that Tik Tok is still in existence for now, so let's rock and roll with it. Our Tik Tok handle is the McShay show, so go find us on Tik Tok. Also. Is it McShay13? My Instagram? Your. Your Twitter is. Is the longest Twitter handle of all time. At Scouts Inc. Mech. It's M u e n c h. I'm at McShay 13. So we're gonna have all sorts of, like, unique, fun content throughout the week. Behind the scenes, stupid stuff. I'm sure Mench eating food and spilling it in the. In the passenger seat of my rental car. All that fun stuff. All right, so number two, you got RJ Harvey at running back. I. I'm gonna go Damien Martinez.
- [66:19]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [66:22]
A
Nope.
- [66:22]
B
A guy. Go ahead.
- [66:24]
A
Oh, okay, good.
- [66:24]
B
I. I love it.
- [66:25]
A
I thought you were gonna. No, again, there's not a lot of separation here. I can't wait to see him. I want to see catching the football. He runs hard. He hits the hole hard. He makes. Yes. I love the fact he played in the bowl game as a running back and wanted to get. I think he got over a thousand yards, whatever it was, but, like, just wanted it. So I. I just. I love dudes like that. Everyone I've talked to in the league, it's kind of like sh. You know, don't bring. Don't bring him up. I think a good value there. So I'm gonna go Damian Martinez, too. Who do you got? A three?
- [66:58]
B
Trevor Etienne. I know he didn't have a big year. I mean, he was end up being the second leading rusher. He's banged up, you know, the Florida transfer. And I just. The talent. When I see him on tape, I just like the talent. I think he's smooth when he gets downhill. He's one of those guys that. And I love this about backs. He doesn't have to waste a lot of motion to make people miss or to get into a different. It's it. He's almost always moving forward when he's changing positions. And I love that about him. He's got a really good feel for cutback lanes. Not as productive as some of these guys. Not as big as some of these guys. I just want to watch the tape. I like the talent.
- [67:32]
A
My Instagram is tmickshay13, by the way, so that's how good I am with this stuff. I don't disagree. I. I like that pick there. But again, I don't see much. Much separation from him. And I go down. This one's hard. The number four back. We'll go six deep on running backs. There's just too many guys. This one's hard for me, men, because I really want to take. I'm gonna go. Khalil Mullings. Really? I'm gonna. Yeah. Because I. I want to see him catching the ball in the passing game a little bit more. Okay. I think he has an opportunity to help continue to rise up boards. He obviously had a huge year. Former linebacker, physical, tough guy. The fact that he's that productive and savvy as a running back, you know, limited experience speaks a lot to him. So I think Mullings can have a big week, but there's some other guys right behind them. Go ahead.
- [68:30]
B
Interesting. I'm gonna go with Ollie Gordon.
- [68:34]
A
That's like. God bless your heart. No, I.
- [68:37]
B
Listen, I love them. I just think that there's other guys I like a little bit more. Go ahead and hit some hits of monster games. Oklahoma State running back Ali Gordon ii. I know it was a down year, but this dude, this. Let's just remember, you know, this is. I love to talk about GM scouts about this too, where they'll say, hey, man, I know he didn't have a great year, but you remember what he did in 2023 when things were right.
- [68:59]
A
Yeah.
- [68:59]
B
And Ollie Gordon, he ran for 1732 yards two years ago. He had 39 catches that same year.
- [69:06]
A
I love the way the Derek Stingley effect. Yes.
- [69:10]
B
Great example. Right. Right. I love the way he catches the ball. I love big backs, he's 225 pounds. We'll see what he weighs in at. But listen, at 225, looks every bit of it on tape. Runs hard, can pick up yards after contact. I think he's got good feet for his size. Again, the production in the passing game and like you mentioned, this guy was in the RB2 mix coming into the year and I'm not sure. I mean, I don't think he's in that mix anymore. Don't get me wrong. I mean, he's dropped, there's no question. But how far. At what point do we start to reevaluate and say we may be pushing him too far down the board based on a down year? I, I think he's a guy that could have a big week.
- [69:47]
A
I'm going to surprise you a little bit here and maybe even myself. I'm going to go. Devin Neal, next up. I love Burchard Smith and I really, really, really like Jarquez Hunter.
- [69:59]
B
Yep.
- [70:01]
A
But there's something about Neil's run style. The more I started watching tape like, I don't know, four, four or five weeks ago on some of these running backs and Neil was one of them. And just watching his cutting ability, his instincts, his patience, there's something to his game that translates to the NFL and I'm excited to see him in the Colorado game was phenomenal. I want. I actually went back and watched that tape after to watch him and then a couple guys on the defensive side for Colorado. Yeah. So I'm gonna go. Neil there.
- [70:32]
B
That's a great group.
- [70:34]
A
Yeah, that's six guys. And, and yeah, go ahead.
- [70:37]
B
No, I was gonna say.
- [70:38]
A
Oh, you don't. That's six. But who, who are you taking next?
- [70:41]
B
I think Hunter's in the mix too, over Rashad Smith, who I love too. But I. For me, Hunter, the. The contact balance, hurdling defenders, running through tacklers, bouncing off, off tacklers. And he's one of those guys that I'm interested to see. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a average 10 yard split and then ran well top speed because he just accelerates. The way he accelerates is smooth and he's building speed. He, he was in the mix to be in my top, top group.
- [71:09]
A
And then you throw, you throw Prashard Smith into that. Right, right. We're talking like seven or eight guys and like the. Just a deep group probably third, third, fourth round range in a deep group that may have been earlier in other years. Okay, last one. I want to wrap up on this defensive lineman. My goodness, is this class loaded? Like, what are. Are these guys all. I think they're gonna play too. That's what I love about defensive linemen especially. I'm just going to say it. Dudes on the defensive front. That play in USC was also this way in years past when they had those awesome defensive lines and linebackers. I'm like Cushing Maluga. Like, those dudes showed up and it was like, yeah, they're going to play like Monday or Tuesday practice and be, you know, they get like a mysterious ankle or like a hammy gut tight. And they would be there all week grinding. And there's something about. It's not just sec, but like south, like down south. Defensive lineman, like the defensive front seven guys, they just love to compete and I freaking love that about them. And I'm sure everyone's going to yell at me, you love the sec. It's not that, man. I look at this list and I started questioning, like, are they really going to show up? Are they really going to play? Like, is. Is. Is Mike. Mike Green? I think will, because it's great opportunity for Marshall. He's got to showcase that. But I look at like Nick Scorton from Texas A and M, Walter Nolan, Ole Miss, Shamar Stewart, A and M, Kyle Kennard, Jared Ivey, Just the way these dudes are wired, I think we're going to have an absolute dog fight like war on our hands throughout the whole week. And if you're an offensive lineman for these two teams, like an Emory Jones from lsu, Jared Wilson from Georgia, you know, some like, membo from. From Missouri, like, it's my boy, Josh Connerly, you know.
- [73:08]
B
Yeah.
- [73:08]
A
From Oregon.
- [73:10]
B
Buckle up.
- [73:11]
A
That ursary, your boy from Minnesota, like, get ready, get ready. It's going to be like, like street fights out there. All right. With that as the backdrop. Who's your who? Who are you taking first?
- [73:24]
B
Shamar Stewart from Texas A and M. Yeah, he's just 66, 290, has an edge and. And you worry about those guys just being, oh, he's high cut and he's going to be able to get under pads. And is he. Is he quick? He's so explosive. Like, my first notes were explosive power. Explosive power. Explosive power. Just runs through offensive tackles. He's one of those guys that can just knock an offensive tackle on his ass on his way to the quarterback. Sets the edge against the run.
- [73:52]
A
You know, he played 521 snaps this past season. 300, 371 were outside the tackle at that size.
- [74:02]
B
Right.
- [74:02]
A
So it shows. But I was just. It shows that.
- [74:06]
B
Right.
- [74:07]
A
But it also like I truly believe the versatility that he can bring is a three technique, a five technique, a seven or you know, like that versatility is. Is awfully intriguing, you know.
- [74:19]
B
Yeah. I think he's a defensive end and a Foreman like a base form in front or a four man heavy front, but he can play anywhere. He's. He's awesome.
- [74:30]
A
I'm gonna go Mike Green, your boy. I mean, you jumped me. Well, I gave you the first pick. You had an opportunity, you could have taken him. But he's interesting man. 6 4, 248 pounds. He's at. He's an outside linebacker in a 34 base all day long for, for me. And I know like it's not even about like position fits and schemes and all that. Fine, play him, play him as a, as a four, three, you know, right. Defensive end. But 700 of. He played 719 snaps last year, which like an absolute dog. How many snaps that is.719 SE. Nearly 700 of those were outside the tackle too. He's. He's like a wide nine seven. Like he get him outside, let him 250, 255 maybe. When I watch him, man, like you got to have counter moves you got to do. You've got to like he's going to have to continue to get stronger and all that. But the short area power he has in his hands combined with that first step quickness and the short area twitch. And what do I mean by that? Like you rushing the passer is. We've talked about it. It's like being a burglar trying to sneak through a tiny crack and like always being on the move so that no one can ever quite get their hands on you. Right. His ability with that short area quickness and the snap in his hands, it's tackles have a damn hard time actually like getting him and locking him now. Right. And he's slippery. But it's also like with every movement, the outside in moves, the, you know, the punching inside and then working out back the club to rip. All those things that he does. He's just. And his body control and people always like body control. I get with a receiver and adjust body control with a defensive. With an edge rusher is about the ability when you are engaged in rushing half a man because you're trying to work that outside tackle or sometimes I mean outside shoulder or inside shoulder of an offensive tackle as an edge rusher and you want to do that because again, the, the kryptonite is a tackle being able to square up as, you know, as an offensive lineman by trade, an offensive lineman where he can get his base underneath him, square up and then control. Because let's face it, I'm bigger than you, dude. Meet me in what we used to call a phone booth. Meet me in a tight alley and I'm going to win this thing. But my job as a 248 yard, 248 pound pass rusher is to never give you my full body. Right?
- [77:05]
B
Right.
- [77:06]
A
So it's working the one half of the offensive tackle, working the outside shoulder, the inside shoulder, and then being able to redirect and then when you do kind of get stuck because there's always that moment of truth as a pass rusher in the NFL, at least sometimes in college, you see them run around, run the circle around, run the loop. But in the NFL, there's always that moment of truth where I'm kind of right here. And it's whether it's giving up leverage with your shoulder, whether it's a quick swipe, whether it's a rip or you know, like there's that moment of truth where you are engaged with half a man and you're trying to bend that edge. The great ones have the body control and, and the ability to continue their legs moving and driving around like they're a, like a race car turning an edge. Right. And I see some of that in Mike Green and that's why I'm excited to watch him down here.
- [77:58]
B
I'll say this, I love me. He's bending explosive. But how do you, how do you pass by Ole Miss defensive tackle Walter Nolan?
- [78:05]
A
Go ahead, go ahead.
- [78:06]
B
Yeah, thanks, man. When I watched, the thing that jumped out to me when I watched his tape was he is a game wrecker when you try to block him with one man and sometimes two men just ain't enough. He's one of those guys that's quick enough to split double teams and he's strong enough to fight off of them. I look at that. That defensive line was obviously loaded this year and he was the best player on it. Again, I, I mean, I don't know what else to say. The guy can absolutely take over a game and be a game wrecker when he's right.
- [78:32]
A
This is my notes. Like so disruptive. Excellent production for inter inside defensive lineman. Excellent.
- [78:39]
B
14 half tackles for loss or something like that.
- [78:42]
A
Yep. Six and a half sacks, 14 tackles for loss, 48 total tackles. I think he's a really disruptive pass rusher. I think he, he will continue to improve. Classic three technique for me in between the, you know, the guard and the, the guard and the tackle work that get, penetrate, get up, you know, get up field disrupt. Really disruptive pass rusher, but an excellent run defender.
- [79:08]
B
Yeah.
- [79:08]
A
I think just because he's so disruptive. And speaking of excellent run defenders, my, my fourth pick of this group would be Nick Scorton. A m. Still developing. Like, I get it. He's still developing, but he is a power based player and that Translates to the NFL. 37 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, only five sacks this year. I get it. He's still got work to do. But he had 10 sacks the previous year at Purdue. Yeah, people forget he was a Purdue transfer. Had 10 sacks a year.
- [79:38]
B
He dropped a fair amount of Purdue too.
- [79:41]
A
Yeah. So. So I'm just intrigued to see, I mean, those, all four of those guys with good weeks at the Senior bowl will lock down spots in the first round. You know, it's, it's opportunity. It's, it's, it's an opportunity for those four guys. And we didn't even get to the 12 guys that are. That are day two prospects, so.
- [80:02]
B
Right.
- [80:03]
A
Yeah. I'm fired up, man. You know what I'm also fired up about? And you know it like more so than probably anything that we do.
- [80:12]
B
Yep.
- [80:13]
A
You know, you know we're going to dinner, right. And we're gonna go to multiple places. There are multiple places. We will document it all. So don't fear if you're not, if you're not noble south, like we'll. And, and you can sling it. And you got good, like real Southern, good food. And there's a bunch of places now. Wasn't always the case. Mobile used to be like carabas Carabas on Airport Boulevard. I'm not joking.
- [80:36]
B
Kas for lunch.
- [80:38]
A
Carabas for lunch. Caraba Carabas at. And by the way, that the one in Mobile might be the best kabas in the country. We love you there, but like not a chain. We all of a sudden within, I don't know, last like seven, eight years. Like the, the, the, the food got better. The restaurant game upped. You know, the south in general, I, I have an obsession with it. The south in general has found its sweet spot in the last like 10 years.
- [81:07]
B
Do you remember Southern Flare?
- [81:09]
A
Go ahead. Sorry.
- [81:10]
B
Do you remember the Italian place with the chalkboard menu? We got to find that place again. It had all the wines out front and then had the, the chalkboard Menu. Always a green flag, man. A chalkboard menu is a good.
- [81:22]
A
I think that was over the bridge, though.
- [81:24]
B
It might have been.
- [81:25]
A
I think it was. That's when we were staying over with the Ravens at one of the. The rest of the hotels right over the bridge, like, not quite in, like, Daphne Area Fair before Fairhope. But, yeah, we'll. We'll.
- [81:39]
B
We will.
- [81:40]
A
We're there Sunday night, Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night. I fly back Thursday. You fly back Thursday. Friday. Thursday morning, Friday. So you get an extra. You're always dangerous. That mensch night when you build it in. Don't you dare. Don't you dare pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about.
- [81:57]
B
I have no idea what you're talking about.
- [81:58]
A
Men want to get back at midnight.
- [82:01]
B
And then have to get up to New Hampshire.
- [82:03]
A
Yeah, no, I know. That's part of it. That's part of it. But men likes to build in that last. Like, McShay's out of town. Oh, I can breathe. McShay's gone. And then you always wind up. You don't get into trouble, but, like, you always find some stuff going on on there that final night. So. So that's four. Four or five nights, depending on which one you're talking about, to find excellent cuisine. But Noble south is our spot.
- [82:26]
B
I love that place.
- [82:28]
A
No, I mean, we are gonna. We are going to. I gotta. We've got a reservation. Marissa brought us a reservation, contacted people there. They're excited to have us down. We've already given some love. We're gonna. We got a reservation. I think seven of us, everyone coming down in this group. We're gonna. We're gonna all go. I won't mention the night because I'll just keep it. Keep it that way that all the mensch groupies are going to wind up showing up. Here we go. But I like that menu, that Noble. What do you. Do you remember any, like, what do you want specifically? I don't even have it.
- [82:59]
B
It's so funny because I don't get. I usually don't get these things. But the. What's it? The foie gras?
- [83:06]
A
Yes.
- [83:07]
B
That's a thing that, like, first of all, I love deviled eggs. They do. Deviled eggs. I will.
- [83:10]
A
Their deviled eggs are outrageous.
- [83:12]
B
It's so, like, people are like, oh, deviled eggs. No, no, deviled eggs. I want to try their pork belly, which I have not tried before, but looks amazing. And then all the supper stuff is always so good. And I've done shrimp and grits. I've done all kinds of different things there, but I always end up getting their wagu steak, which is always cooked perfectly. Perfect sides, everything.
- [83:32]
A
Red snapper is good too, man. I know we're losing a half of our audience right now, but we've never had anything bad. I don't think the shrimp and grits.
- [83:41]
B
Oh, yeah, the pate, like, you were the first one to put me onto that. I was like, what is this? It is so good.
- [83:48]
A
What I love about it, it's like, it's a lot of the fine cuisine you get in all over the country, you know, really high end places. But, like, there's always that, like, little Southern flare. Like, like the cavatelli pasta, right? If I get that in Boston, I'm getting cavatelli pasta, right? And maybe like, there's a cavatelli with lobster or something, but they have the jumbo lump crab with preserved lemon gala apple. Like, I want to try. I don't remember the pepper jelly. Do you remember that blue cheese mousse on toast?
- [84:17]
B
Oh, no, no. We did get that. That was awesome.
- [84:19]
A
Did we?
- [84:20]
B
Yep, we got that one time.
- [84:21]
A
The foie gras, it's. It's the chicken liver mousse. It comes in like a little jar, right? Or something.
- [84:26]
B
Yeah, something.
- [84:28]
A
All right, so we're gonna be there. We're fired up. We appreciate everyone listening. Just another reminder. First of all, thank you for everyone joining us. Being a part of this thing is Little Engine that could. We're just building this thing. It's like, I feel like it's like I said the other night, like, batter up, here we go. We're ready. This is our time. The draft is here. Starts with the Senior bowl, as Nagy will tell you on every tweet. Starts in mobile, and it does. And the process kind of kicks off right now. And we're going to be there shows on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. We will deep dive into all of this. We will talk big picture draft. We'll have some pertinent interviews. When it makes sense with guys that have stuff to share, we'll chop them up and edit them when we can and make them get you the best stuff that we're getting. And we'll also have a lot of conversations about the conversations we're having with people in the league. So just a lot of information coming out that week and you got to be a part of it. Like, if you're into the draft and you. You want to know your teams drafting at the top or you just love the draft like we do. You got to be a part of this week and we're going to need feedback, we're going to need interaction. We're going to make this special. It's going to be the most special trip mensch we've ever had to Mobile. I promise you that it's going to be awesome. And make sure you're following us menches at at Scouts Inc. Mech, right?
- [85:46]
B
Yep.
- [85:46]
A
At Scouts Inc. Me on Twitter I'm McShay13. Our our TikTok. We're going to do a bunch of fun stupid stuff. I'm going to get men dancing. Follow us on the McShay show and tick tock YouTube channel. Instagram. I'm I just found out I'm T. McShay 13. So follow along, be a part of it. We appreciate you being a part of it. Like subscribe, do all the things that we need, that we truly need in order to continue to grow this the way we want to grow it. So we will be back on Tuesday. Have an awesome weekend. Everyone get ready because we're we're taking off running on on Tuesday with mobile and the Senior Bowl. But until then, we appreciate you. Talk to you soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RG D help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit CCP pg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling helpline ma. Org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New SA.