Tale of the Tape: Shedeur Sanders vs. Jaxson Dart for QB2. Plus, Breaking Down the Eagles’ Winning Formula.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The McShay Show – "Tale of the Tape: Shedeur Sanders vs. Jaxson Dart for QB2. Plus, Breaking Down the Eagles’ Winning Formula"

Release Date: February 11, 2025

Introduction and Context

In this episode of The McShay Show, long-time NFL Draft and College Football Analyst Todd McShay delves into the intricacies of NFL talent evaluation, focusing on the competitive landscape for quarterback positions and dissecting the Philadelphia Eagles' successful draft strategy. The discussion is enriched with insights from industry contacts and includes detailed mock draft analyses.

1. Philadelphia Eagles’ Draft Strategy

Understanding Howie Roseman’s Blueprint

Todd McShay opens the conversation by highlighting the pivotal role of Howie Roseman, the Eagles' General Manager, in shaping the team's success. Roseman's approach emphasizes the utilization of premium draft picks on premium positions, a strategy that has led the Eagles to three Super Bowl appearances and two victories under his leadership.

Speaker A [02:07]: "Howie Roseman has led this franchise to three Super Bowl appearances, two Super Bowl victories, and four NFC East titles."

Focus on Premium Positions

McShay and his co-host discuss Roseman's consistent focus on acquiring talent in key areas such as quarterback, defensive line, pass rushers, and offensive line. Over the past four years, the Eagles have made 13 first-three-round picks, 11 of which targeted these premium positions.

Speaker A [03:59]: "The foundation has been to use premium picks on premium positions, starting with the defensive front."

Success and Super Bowl Victories

The strategy has not only provided the Eagles with a robust defense but also supported their offensive strategies, leading to significant achievements, including victories against legendary quarterbacks like Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker A [02:17]: "They’ve won two Super Bowls against quarterbacks that are considered the greatest of all time. Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes."

2. Quarterback Comparisons: Shedeur Sanders vs. Jaxson Dart

Tie Breaker and Potential

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to comparing Shedeur Sanders and Jaxson Dart as potential second-tier quarterbacks (QB2) for the NFL. McShay analyzes their performances, strengths, and areas needing improvement.

Statistical Analysis and Performance Metrics

The discussion includes detailed examination of game tapes, focusing on decision-making, accuracy, and under-pressure performance. McShay emphasizes the importance of metrics such as average depth of target and effective throws under pressure.

Speaker B [05:12]: "Howie Roseman recognized the weakness at wide receiver and made the trade for A.J. Brown because they knew what they were getting in that situation."

Supporting Cast Considerations

Both quarterbacks are assessed not only based on their individual capabilities but also on the quality of their supporting casts. McShay highlights how Jalen Hurts’ leadership and the Eagles' defensive prowess complement the team’s overall performance.

Speaker B [08:26]: "Jalen Hurts is not getting enough credit for what he's done, and they're not getting enough credit for getting him in the second round with the 53rd pick."

3. Analysis of Key Players

Jalen Hurts and the Eagles’ Offensive Dynamics

McShay praises Jalen Hurts for his leadership and clutch performances in critical moments, arguing that his contributions are undervalued in broader discussions.

Speaker B [08:26]: "He is a dude. And we all hear about the defense. And I'm also hearing all the talk after the game is not about the other quarterback because maybe he's not the guy that we thought he was."

Shedeur Sanders’ Instincts and Decision-Making

The discussion delves into Shedeur Sanders' ability to make decisive reads and accurate throws, despite occasional lapses in judgment under pressure. McShay notes Sanders' potential to excel with the right offensive coordinator.

Speaker A [45:23]: "His instincts as a passer are brilliant."

Jaxson Dart’s Tactical Maturity

Jaxson Dart is commended for his quick decision-making and efficient play style. McShay contrasts Dart’s structured approach with Sanders’ more creative and scrambling tendencies, suggesting that Dart might be more adaptable to traditional NFL offensive systems.

Speaker A [37:07]: "He is taking the ball out quickly and beats teams with short, intermediate throws and just goes right down the field if he wants to."

4. Upcoming Draft and Combine Coverage

Mock Draft Plans

McShay announces the upcoming mock drafts, emphasizing that they are diligently working to provide accurate projections based on extensive tape reviews and industry insights.

Speaker A [10:00]: "I'm working on a mock draft for everyone. We're dealing with some business stuff. Don't get bogged down in it."

Combine Schedule and Coverage

The episode outlines the schedule for the NFL Combine, detailing plans for live shows, interviews with General Managers (GMs), and comprehensive analyses of players' performances.

Speaker A [16:12]: "We're going to do shows every day during the pre and then on the 27th, it starts with the workouts."

5. Other Player Evaluations

Wide Receivers and Running Backs

McShay and his co-host evaluate a range of wide receivers and running backs, discussing prospects like Trey Harris, Omarion Hampton, and Savion Williams. They analyze each player's strengths, potential draft positions, and how they fit into NFL teams' schemes.

Speaker B [60:10]: "Can I talk about another wide receiver that you have on that board that you talked about already about liking?"

Defensive Front and Pass Rushers

The Eagles' defensive strategy is further explored, with an emphasis on the importance of a strong pass rush. McShay highlights players like Pierce Jr. and Shamar Stewart as key contributors to maintaining the Eagles' defensive edge.

Speaker B [16:31]: "That's how you be great quarterbacks too though, is with that pass rush."

6. Final Thoughts and Future Episodes

McShay concludes the episode by expressing enthusiasm for the upcoming weeks, promising deeper dives into player evaluations, live show coverage from the Combine, and exclusive interviews with NFL GMs. He encourages listeners to subscribe and engage with the podcast to stay updated on the latest NFL draft insights.

Speaker A [71:02]: "We're grinding away on tape. Like this is the time to do it. We come up for air in a couple months but we're excited."

Notable Quotes

• Speaker A [02:07]: "Howie Roseman has led this franchise to three Super Bowl appearances, two Super Bowl victories, and four NFC East titles."
• Speaker B [05:12]: "Howie Roseman recognized the weakness at wide receiver and made the trade for A.J. Brown because they knew what they were getting in that situation."
• Speaker B [08:26]: "Jalen Hurts is not getting enough credit for what he's done, and they're not getting enough credit for getting him in the second round with the 53rd pick."
• Speaker A [37:07]: "He is taking the ball out quickly and beats teams with short, intermediate throws and just goes right down the field if he wants to."
• Speaker A [45:23]: "His instincts as a passer are brilliant."
• Speaker B [60:10]: "Can I talk about another wide receiver that you have on that board that you talked about already about liking?"

Conclusion

This episode of The McShay Show offers a comprehensive analysis of key NFL draft prospects, with a particular focus on quarterbacks Shedeur Sanders and Jaxson Dart. It also provides an in-depth look at the Philadelphia Eagles' effective draft strategy under Howie Roseman. Listeners are treated to expert evaluations, statistical insights, and previews of upcoming draft coverage, making it an invaluable resource for NFL enthusiasts seeking to deepen their understanding of the draft process and team-building strategies.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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Get 20% off your first order, plus free [e-mail] Spotify with code Spotify. That's meundies.com Spotify code Spotify. Foreign pressures, six sacks, zero blitzes. That one. Philly. The super bowl, our draft blueprint. Are you still not believers? Shador Sanders versus Jackson Dart. Let's look at it through a different lens today. And let's check in with Stevie Boy on where he is in his draft process.

[B]

Like you don't already know. It's the best time of the year, but, man, am I stressed.

[A]

Of course you are. Just 72 days until the NFL draft. Men. You good?

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

Hey, Tuck, tickle me something sweet. Remember Howie Roseman? He was 2010-20, 2014. I want to say. He was in charge of personnel. Then Chip Kelly came in. They. They demoted him. They had to. He was forced to relin. Relinquish, I should. Should say his, his duties as the, the final decision maker in terms of personnel when Chip Kelly was there. Well, he gets his job back. He got promoted again when Chip was. Was fired and, you know, shown the door. And since being reinstated in that role, Howie Roseman, the general manager of the Eagles, has led this franchise to three super bowl appearances, two super bowl victories, and four NFC east titles. Right.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

And not only is his. Not only has he won two Super Bowls, Mitch, he's won two Super Bowls against quarterbacks that are considered the greatest of all time. Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

So what have we learned from this guy, this Howie Roseman guy who's not cut from the same club. No, seriously, like, I know Howie. Like, he's not. He's not cut from the same cloth. He's. He's not a. He's not a former NFL player turned scout or football guy turn, you know, who's worked his ranks way up the ranks as an area scout, more of like the business side and understanding the concepts of it and probably. And we'll, we'll talk to him at some point, but, but, you know, understanding the full picture from a business perspective, understanding the data, understanding what's worked in terms of developing rosters. Okay. He forever even going back to 2010. When you go back and look at their drafts and I was looking at it like going back to the beginning with him and obviously they got away from it a little bit. But his first draft, 2010, Brandon Graham, pass rusher, right. Nate Allen, defensive back from south Florida, then third pick in third round, Teo Nation. Nashim, sorry from Washington. All three premier positions. That's the theme and it started with 20 in 2010 and he was doing it for a while. Chip comes in a little bit more focused on the offensive side, wanting weapons for their system and, and then when he got his, his job back, it was right back to, to what he really believes it. The greatest personnel people I've been around, the decision makers have always said utilize premium picks on premium positions. Like just to boil it down, what are the premium positions? Quarterback. Not running back, not wide receiver. You know, quarterback.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Defensive line, pass rushers, guys that can cover the weapons and offensive line. Okay. I looked at it. Premium D draft picks in the last three years, first three rounds, how he has had. Sorry. The last four years. He's had 13 picks in the first three rounds of the last four years. 11 of those picks are on those premium positions. 11 of 13 picks in the last four years. Five of them on the defensive line, three of them defensive back, three of them offensive line. And every year, every year we talk about, you know, they really need a wide receiver. You go back and look at the Eagles history from 2010 until now. Their biggest misses are at wide receiver. They've had some good running backs have drafted but like was it worth that pick? And considering what they could have gotten at some of those other premium positions and they've probably out of any organization out there have stuck to this blueprint. We keep talking about whether it's the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Ravens, the Packers. Right. We've, we've listed a bunch of, we've gone through all of them. The Bills recently.

[B]

To his credit, I think he, he recognized the weakness at wide receiver and made the trade for A.J. brown. He said, you know, they hit on Devonte Smith. I, I like that pick. But they recognized overall we're not having as much success taking receivers early. So we're going to trade a first round pick to get AJ Brown because we know what we're getting in that situation. So again, recognizing maybe where you haven't been as strong in the draft and address it through, through a trade.

[A]

It'S, it seems so simple. But There's a discipline to it. Right. Because you look at a roster like the Eagles and you say, boy, we're that one piece away. We could really use that. But you keep grinding away on the defensive line. I started the show in the open by talking about, what was it, 16 pressures, six sacks, and they're one of four teams in the super bowl era to actually go an entire super bowl game without blitzing.

[B]

Yeah, they didn't need to blitz. Right.

[A]

They didn't need to blitz.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so when you look back in the last couple years, when you draft Quinon Mitchell from Toledo, when you draft Cooper Dean, when you, you draft JX Hunt right, in the first three picks last year, and you draft Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith the previous year with your, your two first round picks. And I mean, there's so many things we can go into drafting. A lot of quarterbacks keep taking hacks at it. You know, the, the Bill Walsh theory, a lot of trades, valuing picks, getting additional picks, knowing when it's time to strike. There's a lot of different things he's done. But the, the, the foundation has been use premium picks on premium positions. And it starts really truly with that defensive front. And that won him a Super Bowl. You go back to 2022, Jordan Davis, defensive tackle, second pick, center. Let's get that offensive line short up. 2021. Yeah. Devonte Smith pick, but those next two picks, Landon Dickerson and Milton Williams, one of the best picks that turns out to. How does Milton Williams have this critical, critical of a role when every year you're drafting all of these dudes along the defensive front? But Milton Williams is about to go get rich.

[B]

Yeah, he's gonna get paid.

[A]

He's gonna get paid.

[B]

But you know what, Can I just say what's driving me nuts here? And I agree with everything you're saying. All of what you're saying is true. The Eagles are the better team. I can't, by the way, looking at the futures for next year, I can't believe they're not favored. I don't think they're favored to win the super bowl, which is crazy to me, but anyways, they're the better overall team.

[A]

Always getting FanDuel in. I love it.

[B]

Yeah, it's great. All of what you're saying, better team, drafted well in defense. That is the blueprint. Jalen Hurts is not getting enough credit for what he's done, and they're not getting enough credit for getting him in the second round with the 53rd pick. I get it. He doesn't put up huge numbers. You look at how he's played in the two Super Bowls, the loss to Kansas City and the win to Kansas City, the plays that he's made at critical moments, the leadership that he shows his ability to make plays again in critical times. In this game, I was blown away. He was the by far the better quarterback on that field. I'm not saying he's a better quarterback from home overall. Don't, don't, don't even start. Are you going to go into this, you're going to go into the supporting cast, all of that stuff. Great.

[A]

I'm just gonna say Mahomes didn't have a chance. That wasn't this. It was the story. But it wasn't in my mind.

[B]

Last time I checked, that Chief's defense is pretty damn good too. And they were shutting down Saquon, Barley, Barkley for a large portion of that game.

[A]

They did.

[B]

And Jalen. And Jalen hurts was making plays when he's getting pressured, he's making plays with his feet. Oh, the tush push is a gimmicky play. I don't care. Stop. Stop. The guy's a winner. He was a winner in college. The resiliency this guy has showed over his career. Losing the job to TUA when he was at Alabama, coming in in relief in an SEC championship game and leading to a win, a comeback win over Georgia. To me, listen, the guy doesn't get enough credit and they don't get enough credit for taking him. He's. He is a dude. And we all hear about the defense. And I'm also hearing all the talk after the game is not. Is about the other quarterback because maybe he's not the guy that we thought he was. Maybe, maybe he's not Tom Brady.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

That's a conversation. Let's have it in a couple weeks. How about we talk about Jaylen Herz winning a Super bowl mvp? How about Jaylen Herz record in the playoffs as a guy who's under 27? I think only Roethlisberger, Mahomes have more wins. Like how are they not? I mean, I, I get it. You're right. Better overall team. I get it. Great pass rush. They've done a great job of pass, of rush of drafting defensive players. I'm stumbling now. I'm so upset. But Jalen Hurst, man, where's the love?

[A]

I mean, he was the super bowl mvp.

[B]

Look, I know, but we're not talking about him. We're talking about everybody else right now. We Jaylor hurts.

[A]

I am. I'm not everyone.

[B]

I feel like other people are, too. So maybe it's just my world, maybe.

[A]

I have this bias, but everyone's new to this show because this show is new. Okay, but we haven't been through a draft cycle, so. So folks out there who are tuning in, whether you're listening on Spotify or Apple, whether you're. You're watching us on YouTube or. Or Spotify or anywhere else that you get your podcast, Let me explain something to you so that you. You're not sitting there confused as to why Mensch is an absolute wreck. And men. We opened the last show last Thursday, and Mench is saying that I said, men, you're good. And he's like, no, I'm not good, actually. And he's pissed off. He winds up going on a rant about Travis Hunter not being. Being a top five pick. I want to go behind the scenes just for half a second here. You heard me in the open say there's 72 days to the NFL draft. I promise you, you can set your freaking clock to this. The closer we get to the draft, the redder in the face Mensch gets, the more. The more irritable he gets. I. I can. I could put it in my calendar. Two weeks before I'm going to get a call about Match. The world is collapsing two weeks before the draft. The sky is falling. I mean, asteroids gonna hit us. I'm not paid enough for all of this. No one respects what I do, what I do. Like, it's just like, set your. Set your calendar, set your watch, set your clock to it. So Mensch is testing. It's not like, this is not new to me. That's why. That's why I'm sitting here. I'm smirking the whole time. Men just testy. Oh, shocking. 72 days from the draft. Menches testing. So don't like Men will be fine on May 1st. I promise everyone he'll be back to his jovial, fun self. You know, the fun, fun guy who's up in the woods in New Hampshire with his beard and doing all this fun stuff in the summer. But men is going to be an absolute pill to handle for the next 72 days.

[B]

I like to think I just elevate the care factor. You know, I just like to think it's a high care factor. That's how I would phrase it.

[A]

Let's spin this forward real quickly. Okay, I am in. I'm working on a mock draft for everyone. We mentioned it's coming out. It's coming out soon. We're dealing with some business stuff. Don't get bogged down in it. I'm trying not to get bogged down in it. It's coming out soon. I'm eager. I see everyone else putting out their mock draw like, we're working on it. I promise. I haven't done a mock draft in two years. And, and our folks here are, they're, they're making me fight for it. I love that. So it's coming out soon. But as I'm, as I'm working through the mock draft in my head and I'm talking to people in the league and I'm, and I'm making sure my draft board is, is up to, up to date as possible at this point. I, when we do an exercise like this and we take a minute post super bowl to evaluate what's going on and what the blueprint should look like, I can't help but say, all right, let's spin it forward a little bit. What does this mean? What, like, what could this mean? If people are paying attention to the same thing that I'm paying attention to, and I think you are, for the most part, when you're not yelling at me about Jalen hurts and where's his, where his flowers? I think, I think there are a lot of smart people in the league, and I think it's gotten smarter. If I'm being honest. I don't, I don't think we can always say there's 25 or so organizations that are really, really damn smart. I don't, I, honestly, I've been in this for 25 years, and that wasn't always the case. I think personnel groups and departments have gotten smarter. I think there's a combination of analytical tools to self assess. I, I, I truly believe the vast majority of teams in the league have gotten really freaking smart. Okay? So there's got to be some attention paid to what's going on. Why are those teams always winning? Why are we picking in the top 15, top 20. Okay. And I look at some teams as I'm going through this mock draft, and I, I, I see some pressure points and I see some organizations that think or they do have their guy at quarterback, and that's what this is all about. When, yes, build it before you get it at the quarterback position, but once you get that guy, you got to. And you see the draft order, if you're watching on Spotify, if you're watching on YouTube, when you get your quarterback, you got five years and you're paying him like you're paying your best chef, minimum wage. So you can use that other money to go buy on the front of the house, make it beautiful, buy all the beautiful chairs and the lighting, make sure your bar stocked with the finest liquors, make sure you have a great wait staff and hostesses, all those things. That's essentially what it is. And so when you look now and you see New England picking at number four and yeah, it could be a couple quarterbacks before then, I think maybe just one. I think the Titans could wind up going saying, you know what? This, this isn't our guy. This isn't our year for our guy at quarterback. Let's take the best player. So that would be an example of an organization kind of getting it and being like, you know what? We've got a significantly higher grade on Abdul Carter than we do any of these quarterbacks. And maybe Cleveland takes Travis Hunter, even though Mensch doesn't think Travis Hunter goes in the top five picks. And then maybe the Giants pull the trigger on one of these quarterbacks. Maybe it's Cam Ward, maybe it's Shador Sanders, maybe it's Jackson Dart. We'll get to that in a little bit. Okay? But I get down to New England and I see a lot of people mocking, mock drafting, if you will. Travis Hunter there. If Travis Hunter was available to mention point the other day, I see a lot of people putting Will. Will Campbell there. Yeah, Will Campbell, the offensive lineman from. From lsu, which wouldn't be a bad pick either. Let's. Let's build the trenches. Premium pick on premium positions. But watching the super bowl and watching all these organizations that have had success, when you get your quarterback, he can make up for a lot of sins. On the opposite, on his side of the ball, he can't do anything, can't do much for the defensive side of the ball. So let's make it a great defense like the Chiefs have done with the. With Mahomes, like the Bills have tried to do with their draft picks opposite Josh Allen, like the Ravens have done year over year. Right. With Lamar Jackson. Like the Eagles continue to do with. With once they got Jaylen Herz. Okay.

[B]

And that's how you be great quarterbacks too though, is with that pass rush. You know, you look at the Super Bowls that Brady lost and those Giants pass rushes that were just outrageous. That's what beat him again, the pass rush. For the Eagles, it's always that P. If you want to make a superhuman quarterback look average, you have to have that Great pass rush.

[A]

And the Patriots did it to Kurt Warner way back in the day too. Correct schemes and a pass rush. So I just look at New England as an interesting. They're going to be an interesting case study of maybe we take Mason Graham here at 4 over an offensive lineman, another premium position. But Mason Graham moves differently than, than just about anybody any defensive tackle we've seen in a couple years. He just for his size and his power, he moves differently than a lot of dudes. So that's one that's interesting. Number eight. You got Bryce Young, Carolina Panthers. That could be a spot where it's Mikel Williams or Jalen Walker from Georgia, one of those pass rushers. And yeah, it's a position of need so it would line up, but they also need a weapon. And I've seen a lot of people in mock draft McMillan to, to Carolina. I don't see that following the blueprint. And I think Dan Morgan, the general manager is a really smart guy and I think Dan Morgan with his defensive background is looking at the bigger picture and saying, you know what? Yeah, we'd love to get Tet or a wide receiver in here. Give, give Bryce Young a weapon, but let's go get that weapon in the second or third round. Let's go in free agency and get a weapon. We got. We get some free agency money. Let's use these picks to build a great defense because we think we got our guy in Bryce Young. Go down to Atlanta, Michael Penck, they think they've got their guy. We'll find out. Time will tell. There's not enough reps to, to put a stamp on that. But I look at Shemar Stewart, I look at Pierce Jr. From Tennessee and I start to say, you know, like that would be a good spot to go get a pass rusher because we think we got a guy at quarterback. I look down at Tampa Bay, you got Baker, right? And maybe a Tampa Bay at 19. Let's, let's make sure we take care of this password. Baker's going to make up for a lot of sins. We saw it. He had his two star receivers out and they still were moving the ball offensively. Let's make sure we got a great defense on the opposite side, you know, and I so pick a pick later.

[B]

A picklet.

[A]

Bo Nix at 20. Bonix would. They'd love a wide receiver. We got a Mecca. Abuca, right? We got, we. We got some wide receivers that are going to start to come into play from 20 to 32. Got Luther Burden III from Missouri. But why don't we got this defensive front like. And let's look at this group real quickly. And I know I just go on rants, I'm sorry. And everyone yells, no, you're good.

[B]

This is where the value is, man.

[A]

We talk enough and all that other. I get it. But like. But it. It. I get in sense. I get in these like rabbit holes and then I get like. Like a dog with a bone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want you to listen to these names. Let's call them just top 40 guys, okay. That have a chance to go in the top 40. Abdul Carter, Penn State. Two Georgia guys. Mikel Williams and Jaylen Walker. Shamar Stewart, who I'm in love with. Power, rusher, effort, the whole thing from Texas A. And Mike Green from Marshall. Absolute star at the Senior bowl after a phenomenal year with Marshall. The pressures leads the FBS. James Pierce Jr. I just mentioned from Tennessee. Nick Scorton mentions Guy, Texas A M, Ezaruku. Even Donovan Ezaruku from Boston College. Jack Sawyer. I'm not saying these guys are all going to be top 40, but they certainly could be. Josiah Stewart from Michigan getting a lot of love from scouts I talked to. Those are all guys. I'm talking 10 guys that could go in top 40 picks. How about the defensive tackle class? Inside defensive lineman. Insane. The idls. Mason Graham. I just talked about it. I think he should be the Patriots pick at four. If he's not, he's probably going to go to Jacksonville at 5. Walter Nolan from Ole Miss. The running mate of Mason Graham. Kenneth Grant from Michigan. Derek Harmon emerging out of kind of out of nowhere. Body transformation, the gym. Nagy talked to us about commitment, recommitment to the game. Looks different. Disruptive defensive tackle at Oregon after a couple years of Michigan State. TJ Sanders. I like this guy's tape, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Twitchy, athletic, disruptive. Alfred Collins. Absolute beast for Texas this year. An emerging emergence after the two guys who were drafted pretty early last year from Texas. Right.

[B]

Shamar Turner, another Texas A and M kid. I mean that Texas A and M defensive line was.

[A]

Yeah. Who's dinged up and won't work out at the combine. But they're hoping to be back for the senior. And. And. And Ty Leak Williams, Ohio State. All guys we're going to talk about top 40, top 50 picks. There's a bunch of dudes. So. Right.

[B]

Kentucky defensive tackle Walker. You didn't even mention him. I mean there's. You can't. It just keeps going.

[A]

We're talking those guys 20 defensive linemen from edges to inside defensive linemen that could go in the top four. 45. Let's, let's call it 40 to 50 picks. Top 40 to 50 overall. I'll be really interested to see if, if more teams and more organizations are starting to see what we have really like in the last couple years. It has like a light bulb has gone off in my head and now we're talking to GMs about it in our the Decision Maker series. We're going to continue to ask every GM and we're speaking of. Which is a good time to transition. We're going to be at the combine. We got two GMs that we, we interviewed at the Senior Bowl. It was awesome. The response, the viewership, like, I've gotten more texts from people at my former job inside the league. Like, people, like, great interview with so and so. And the so and so's were Nick Casario, the general manager of Houston Texans and general manager of the Baltimore Ravens, Eric DaCosta. They were awesome. They really were. They were awesome. And so we're now, we have got, now we've got a blueprint and, and the way they opened up and shared things and it's just a different format than we've ever seen with general managers. We're going to continue to do that at the combine, which is coming up. Excuse me. This winter, man, it's getting to me. We're going to be there. So the combine is the 24th through the third, February 24th through the third. There's a lot of like pre stuff for agents and the players come in and get their heights and weights and all that stuff. But it really ramps up on the 25th of February. That's on Tuesday. We get in on. I shouldn't say it ramps up. There's just heights and weights and stuff on the 26th. That Wednesday is when we get in. That's the night before the eve of the workouts. So we're going to be there on the 26. We're going to do shows, potentially live shows. We'll keep you posted on it. But we're going to do shows every day during the, the, the pre. The pre show on the 26th and then on the 27th. It starts with the workouts. Okay. Which is Thursday, the 28th, which is Friday. And then Saturday the first. We're going to fly back on Sunday the second. There's going to be the offensive line workouts. We'll watch that and, and we'll, we'll have a recap just A couple days later. But this is the offseason and draft schedule. If you're watching on YouTube, if you're watching on Spotify, the combine week, you see that in late February, early March, and then, and then free agency begins on 12th March. That's where all the mock drafts get ripped up. We start, start them over right after that. After that first, like, big, you know, movement week, really, it's a week before. And then the first week of, then league meetings are on the, the 30th of of March. And then right after that, it's, it's just hardcore. Like, we're going to ramp it up for the next two weeks. Here's the bottom line. Next two weeks, it's Tuesday and Thursday shows. Okay? Today's our, our Tuesday show. We're gonna have a Thursday show and. And then we're gonna do the same thing next week. Then we're off to the combine. Please join us. It's going to be an awesome week. We'll have interviews with GMs, as I mentioned, we're going to stack a bunch of them while we're there. We're gonna have the four shows from 26th February till March 1st. And then after that, we're probably going to shift to come a little bit earlier in the week and do some live shows as well. And I think when we get to April mention, there's just going to be so much stuff. We're going to be flooded. I think we're probably going to ramp up to three, three a week. But I haven't even talked to programming about that yet, so we'll get there. But, you know, now the schedule for us, we appreciate everyone tuning in. I know the super bowl ended. Everyone's got a little bit of a football hangover, if you will. A little, little football fatigue. But, like, this is, this is the time where we start really diving in. We're watching tape, we're trying to make assessments off of tape. Then we get all the combine numbers then at that process. Like, my whole goal is to get a lot of these top 100, top 150 guys every year done on tape. Because I love going into the combine with an evaluation basically done on their tape. So when we start to make some movement, it's, oh, this Cornerback ran a 4, 3. I thought he was maybe a 4, 4 or 5 guy, right? We see some different things that come out, and then you get the information whether some medical checks at the combine, hey, they got to go back for a recheck in the medical rechecks. Who are those guys? What other medical information are we getting? What character information we're getting? How are the interviews going? What are teams here? Like? We have so much information that I've never been able to use before. Mensch. Never. Maybe an occasional, like.com piece, like some buzz I'm hearing. But even that stuff had to be paired down. We get to just unload all of it right here. And so please stay with us. We're gonna have a fun couple months, man. We really are. Like, I'm more fired up about this than anything we've ever done professionally. And we appreciate everyone tuning in. Please give us a subscribe a. Like all the things that you know to do on the podcast to. To just help support us as we try to grow this thing. Because it's for first year through.

[B]

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[B]

I just want to get into Jackson Dart right now. I mean, we're gonna do that. Let's go.

[A]

You got your hotel, right, for the combine?

[B]

Yeah, we're good. Thanks, Marissa.

[A]

I would be lost. I know. I know that feeling. I also want to mention, this is the first time you've actually come to the combine.

[B]

Yeah, my first trip there.

[A]

Yeah. I can't wait to have you, man.

[B]

It's gonna be. I'm excited.

[A]

Your room is going to be the film study room. We're gonna have all sorts of, like, room service there. We'll have to bring, like, air freshener and stuff. But. But it's an awesome week. It's an awesome week. Okay. All right. So I did. I. I've been struggling with this. And I told you from the. From the jump, October 22nd, we had our first show, and I promised full transparency. Okay. I have done just about every tape on. On Shador Sanders, and I'm now up to lsu, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and Duke on Jackson Dart. Okay. Those are the games that I've actually studied and. And note taking my notes on. On tape for Jackson Dark. And the list, like, it's a long list for Shador. It's not even worth. It's basically every. Every.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Important game. What are your Thoughts? Let's start there.

[B]

I, oh, I'll start with just talking about dart.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I'll give the example of the Florida tape. Right, The Florida tape. They lose that game. He throws a couple picks late, he throws one. That's just a terrible decision into triple coverage on, you know, he didn't need to force the throw. They're driving, they're on the plus 40. It's late in the game. I think it was first down. He forces his throw into triple coverage. It's a bad decision. It's a bad throw. And I'd watched so much of Ole Miss over the year, right. I'd seen so much of Jackson Dart. And then you go back and this is the difference between watching as a call, like you're evaluating, you know, how these teams are playing and then digging into the prospect. Right. If I, I could put a two minute highlight film of the plays that Jackson Dart makes in that Florida game. There are plays that he makes in that Florida game that I think few other quarterbacks can make. He's ripping the ball down the middle for a touchdown. He's dropping the ball over the top. He had a tight, he threw for a ball to his tight end from the right hash and the Titans running a corner on the left side of the field. He drops it into the tight end and the tight end drops the ball. It's he. I, when I go back and watch, I, I'm excited. I am so excited after watching his tape. I'm not going to lie to you. I think that the, you know, the conversation you said at the, at the, at Mobile, could he be quarterback too? And I almost broke my neck. I was like, oh, wait, what that, is that, is that a thing now that Jackson Dart might be quarterback too? That's the thing, man. That's, that is without question a topic of conversation.

[A]

Let's just start there. So I did the Florida tape. Florida tape was one of the tapes I added to my, my catalog, if you will, of games. He's flat out phenomenal.

[B]

It's crazy, right? That's the bad tape decided.

[A]

These are my, these are my notes. Okay. And I don't get. We're gonna go a while. I don't care. I promise. 45 minutes to Dan and Tucker. I, I always lie when it comes to timing. I'm sorry. Decisive reads accurate and quick. Trigger on short to intermediate. Great throw, first drive. But he got his tight end decapitated. I don't know if you watched that.

[B]

He did, he did.

[A]

But also corner, a corner, fell off of it, like.

[B]

And the other receiver spacing was off. Get out of the.

[A]

The receiver.

[B]

Okay, fine.

[A]

Play 18. Terrible drop. Play 18, terrible drop on a corner route. Perfect skill layer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But the one thing I love, he came back. And on that Throw in play 18, pressure in his face.

[B]

Drops.

[A]

Layers it in beautifully. Okay. Drop comes back to it on play 30. Same exact route, same receiver. And the receiver kind of double catches it, but catches it. So confidence in your receiver, confidence in the. In the play Design. Okay, play 22. Touchdown, Dime Post. Drops it in beautifully. Leads is receive, leading is re. This is overall notes. Just like now we're like through 20 something plays. And I'm like. He's just. Quick note like leading receivers. Open touch, timing, placement. Okay, play 26. Throw open after third re. Oh, oh. Plays 26 and 27. If you're. If anyone who's a tape junkie wants, like, if you want to see two, play. I love when plays stacked together. Plays 26 and 27 I thought were great examples of him. Like when he's rolling, what he has to offer. Throws his receiver open, third down and then play 27. It's an absolute dot. Just a laser on a post. Touchdown. Now. Now they're leading 14 to 7. Okay, that's 935 left in the second quarter then. My notes are tough, efficient, runner, dog, competitor. Hit after hit, helmet getting knocked off twice, kicked around on the ground, popping back up. Okay. And this is just. This is a week after. Don't forget, this is a week after the Georgia game when he gets knocked out. And I'll get to the Georgia game in a minute. Minute. But then the thing that everyone remembers from that game, after he's gotten his ass kicked, he's been running the football more. He had. I wrote it down, five long, important, important, critical runs in that game. Okay. He's exhausted. And it came after he had another long run and he was. He was just white and he's pressing. And they're down 24 7. And remember, this is when your guy Pegis. I don't know what got into lane, but Pegis become like, he's like a featured back now, and they're not. Yeah.

[B]

Like 20 carries. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And all of a sudden there's like three plays. I'm clicking through. It's Peggies, Peggies. And they're not picking up those fourth and short and they've got drives that stall. They moved the ball on offense the entire game against that Florida defense that's young but got really good late in the season. Okay. And down 247 drove drove him into Florida territory. But then he had the worst decision I've ever seen him make. And I don't have an explanation for it. I don't know if it was the helmet getting knocked off twice, a little rattled. I don't know if his head was spinning. I don't know. And I'm not going to excuse it away because I'm not going to become an apologist. It was a disgusting decision in a critical moment. And he made it as hopefully so. So you. It was. He'll be the first to tell you he's discussed with himself like we're not here to like sugarcoat.

[B]

No.

[A]

And he knows it and Lane knows it and you know, you move on from it. But it was the worst decision decision I've seen him make in his career. Into the end zone with 147. It was play 75. Then they get the ball back with 103. Two good plays. Gets him back into right around midfield. And then he throws an interception on. But it was a miscommunication. But they got away with it. The penalty.

[B]

And then you really do need to press. Like you start. You have to press it.

[A]

And he did. He did on the next play when he actually threw the interception. It was another miscommunication. But it was a trash decision. And I think you saw a quarterback who was just run down Georgia rain game. What nothing about it pretty gets gets his hand knocked on on a throw early in the game. Gets knocked out of the game. But like the toughness to come back. Went to the locker room, fixed up right back in. Okay. I thought he. Here's the notes I had. I thought it was interesting if you really rewind, rewound and really studied the coverages. Anytime a quarterback makes a decision where I'm like, I wouldn't have made that decision but it was the right decision. I get impressed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I think it was one of the first or maybe the first throw of the game. He opted out of throwing a screen. And I think he was like no loss. He held on the ball. Whatever the final decision. The corner fell off of his first read, you know of where it was a zone coverage look that they disguised as man. And he dropped into the flat. It was like a slot corner or whatever it was. And his preparation, his tape preparation told him don't make that throw. Whatever it was the back turning how. Because the corner on the perimeter didn't bail yet. And he still turned down that throw. And had he Made that throw. The. The flat defender. The slot guy would have been right there. Probably wouldn't have picked it, but would have knocked it down.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Fascinating to me. He did that a couple times. So I put in my notes, step ahead on his reads. The other thing I noted Georgia game. And the same thing's true in Florida and all these other games. Don't overlook the fact that he makes the easy stuff look easy. He plays with it like the structure of the offense runs. And yes, there's a lot of spread stuff and sometimes the reads can be a little bit easier. Sometimes Lane just out coaches and out schemes the defensive coordinator. But he's making decisions, pulling the trigger. He's setting his protections more this year. He's checking out of some bad plays. I just. I see that. I see a maturation in his game that I hadn't seen previous to this year. Okay.

[B]

And agree or disagree with me this really quickly. The supporting cast. He didn't have Trey Harris. The second part of the season. I didn't think his. There was times where I'm watching and I'm like, he has nowhere to go with this ball. Guys just aren't separating. And then he's making plays with his feet. He's extending. And I thought the pass protection was an issue at times. You know, I don't want people to look at that.

[A]

We.

[B]

I love that Ole Miss team because of their defense and Jackson Darth. But when you look back at it, they didn't have. They had a lot of productive receivers. But I didn't think he had an elite supporting cast when he was there.

[A]

I said in Georgia, his receivers hung him out to dry on three. Three different routes. Like the routes were wrong. They. They didn't flatten. They had. In addition to the routes being off. And he didn't sell any of them out.

[B]

No.

[A]

You could tell watching the tape the routes weren't right. And in addition, they had several drops in both games. Okay. Both of those games which were in addition to all the other drops and things I've seen in. So that's Jackson dart at 6, 2, 2, 26, 9 and a half inch hands, man. The other thing I'll say is, yeah.

[B]

I had the same note of as you as decisive but without rushing. He doesn't. It's decisive, but if it's not there, he's getting to his next read. Like you're saying, a step ahead of your reads. I. I saw it as he's. If it's there, he's taking it right away. If it's not. He's getting to his next read and if that's not there, he could take off and either extend or scramble for a first down. And he's not. Listen, he's not. He doesn't have the SME. The speed of a Lamar Jackson. He doesn't have the power of a Josh Allen, but he does have a little bit of that Drake May running ability. He has a little bit of that.

[A]

I love you. So I went. So I went. And I do this every year. Like, I'm not going to make a decision on these quarterbacks until I. Until I go back and study tape. Not of the rookie season or second or third year in the NFL. What were they coming out?

[B]

Right?

[A]

So I went, I went back and I watched both Jaden Daniels and Drake May.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Jaden's a damn unicorn, man.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, Lamar and Jaden are on a different planet. They're. They're a different universe.

[A]

I think the ball jumping out of his hands, the accuracy, even on slight misses, they're only like the degree of difficulty throws.

[B]

Oh, you're talking about overall. Okay, I got you.

[A]

Oh, Jaden J. When I went back and studied some tape and I took an hour last night because I was like, I got to put this in perspective because we keep saying, well, if it was last year's draft and there's clearly a difference. Jaden is. It was a unicorn and we knew it. And I actually, I told you like, I had the same grade just like one. And Caleb and I can live with it, but I promise you, I was, I was yelling to nobody who was listening that, like, we're underrating Jaden. Okay, I don't have a problem with my evaluation on Jaden. I don't. If we're going to have a problem, we'll see in the future with Caleb, but it's not with Jaden. Drake May was interesting because I see a lot of similarities in Jackson Dart's game for exactly what you're saying. It's not this twitchy mobility, but it's the ability to elude a defender. And when they run, it's not like elite speed, but it. But it's this like, efficient, tough, aggressive.

[B]

Nor.

[A]

Everything's north, south and I'll get to Shador Sanders in a minute. Everything with Drake is north, south advancing. And I think a lot of that comes from lane. Like, we're not going sideways, we're not going backwards. Every climb, the pocket not there, takeoff run and don't start scrambling around to the right and get it to the outside. Get up north. Get north immediately. Okay? And the same was with Drake. Now Drake did a little bit more running around and didn't have protection and there's. Receivers sucked and I didn't like the system and all that stuff. But I put in the tape of Drake right after, on purpose, right after studying more of Jackson Dart. It's very similar, Tate, in terms of trying to be decisive, trying to keep things moving, progressing. North, right? Efficient as a passer. Right. Even though like the, the, the production numbers and the stats wouldn't say it, but like throws are there. The difference was Drake May. The ball popped off his hands a little bit more than it pops off of Jackson. Jackson's got a two. We do one. One out of five. Drake was, Drake was a one in terms of one being elite, you know, top end, highest level, outstanding. Two being. And we only do these for position specific traits, for critical traits. Two being good, three being average, four being below average, five being marginal. Okay? So I, I think Jackson is a two in terms of his arm strength. Drake May is a one. With Drake May, the athleticism, I, I think they're same like the speed and, and, and what they do, I really do. But it's just different. When I popped in the Drake May tape because I'm watching a guy who's 6 foot 4, 223 pounds versus 6017. Jackson Dart was 6178 of an inch. So we'll call him 62 and 226 pounds.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So to watch a taller guy with the same agility, maybe, honest to God, like slightly better, is really impressive. And so as I was watching this, like Drake May, minute 50 left in the first quarter against South Carolina, 2023 tape. I watched that play and I'm like, wow, like what an athlete for size, you know. And it's a similar athleticism from Jackson Dart, but at his size, it just looks different right then and 12:25, second quarter. And remember with Drake Maze, it was a lot of like the zone read option, you know, RPOs, all that stuff. And so like it just was hard tape to churn through, right? Because there wasn't as much like pro style progression read stuff as, as there is with Jackson Dart and some of these other quarterbacks, right? But 12:25, second quarter. Scrambles to his left, scrambles to his right. This is against South Carolina as well. Then he throws a strike across his body where you're like, it ain't pretty, but my goodness, yeah, who does that? There is so much on this canvas to work with. Right. And so there's just more. He's just more talented. He's bigger. He's just as maybe slightly more athletic. He's got a stronger arm. But the same reasons that I like Drake may or a lot of the same reasons with Jackson Dart. Okay. Shador Sanders. I went back and watched more tape on him just to kind of refresh and keep. Because as we go through these positions, you and I do this all the time. We do with the colleges in the preseason because they've got like, you know, 30 players from Ole Miss. So it's like, it doesn't make sense to do by position, go back and forth, fourth and back. So you're just. You're ripping through tapes. Offensive side, then defensive side for Ole Miss. That's just the process. But you get to now and we got to start stacking them. And I always talk about during this process, very beginning in this summer before, we're. We're air traffic control, and we're just trying to get a thousand planes up there. And then as the season progresses, we're trying to just had, you know, steer them towards where they're going. And at this point, talking about the.

[B]

The buckets. Eric DaCosta talking about getting guys in the right buckets and then figuring out in the. Within that bucket, how do we rank them? You know, everyone's doing the same thing.

[A]

And so now, now we're getting. Now we're starting to figure out what. What bucket they're in or air traffic control, like, what. What Runway they're headed towards. Now we got to stack the planes and like, all right, this one goes first. This one's going to follow up 90 seconds later. You watch a busy airport every 90 seconds. Boston, Logan. I've talked to people there. Both my parents, by the way, worked for Delta Airlines for, you know, 40 plus combined years. So I'm. I kind of got a fascination with planes. But. But every 90 seconds, busy airports, they're. They're. They're ripping through, right? And so who's next up? And that's. That's kind of how we're processing all this. So as I went through and. And watched the Drake May and I watched the Jaden Daniels, it helped give me perspective on how talented this class actually is as a whole, comparatively. But now I want to go and we do it for every position. Let's watch these quarterbacks back to back to back to have it fresh in your mind. It makes it easier as an evaluator. And I know Talking to people in the league. They do say the area scouts, for example. Area scouts, they spend like four months on the road doing their. Their area. So if you're the southeast scout, you got all the SEC teams, you get some ACC teams, right? Yeah. Get some smaller school guys in your area. But then what happens is you get done with that process and then you do a cross check. And so we'll talk to all of our friends in the league and we'll see him at the Senior bowl and they'll be like, yeah, I've got defensive line this week, or I've got. I've got tight ends and linebackers, you know, so.

[B]

So what'd you see?

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I want to know. I can't wait.

[A]

Utah was one of the games I watched. First play, terrible interception by Shador. Okay. Doesn't see the linebacker undercut, undercutting. Everything is chaos. Love how he stays calm under pressure, but needs an offensive coordinator in the NFL that's going to work to speed up his clock and force him to play within the construct because he is truly the best pure passer in this class. In terms of his. It's an interesting dichotomy and, and I've got pages of notes on him because, you know, going through all the different games. The interesting dichotomy in Shador is he's. And there's two parts. He scrambles so much. He extends plays. He's creative. Right. But he's not an elite athlete. Okay.

[B]

No.

[A]

So I worry about that at the next level. Is he going to be able to extend plays at the same rate or with the same effectiveness that he does? And the second part, that's. That's hard to explain. I'm going to try to do it here. His instincts as a passer are brilliant. There was one play, play 60 for whatever, you know, anyone out there is a lunatic. The rush is bearing down. This is against Utah. Rush is bearing down on him. Scent. But he senses a receiver cracking open down the seam in the middle of the field. Okay. And the pressure is like right in his face and like almost. No, look, just flings it, snaps it off. Doesn't have a great arm, has a. An adequate NFL arm, but he snaps it off and he gets it down there. A lot of guys wouldn't have seen that receiver, receiver, even be on the verge of breaking open right down the field, right on target. Can't. Can't even see it. Like one of those where, like falling back, pressure in your face and. And delivers a strike. Okay. His instincts as A passer are phenomenal. His instincts, though, in the pocket are going to get him killed if he doesn't learn to play on time, on schedule and start to speed it up. Now, we said the same exact things about Patrick Mahomes. And please don't even start with the nonsense you're comparing. You keep doing it. You can, you can, you can make those steps. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Jalen, Hurts, all have improved their accuracy. Patrick Mahomes is one of many examples of guys in the NFL learn how to play within the confines of a system. Right. And learn how to speed up their clock and didn't play hero ball all the time. And that's what Chicago is going to try to do with Ben Johnson, with Caleb Williams, that's the challenge because he's got everything else. Can he play on time? Okay, so that's going to be a big challenge for. For sure. My takeaway was this match. I wanted to come out of this and say definitively, door better than Jackson.

[B]

Okay, get off the fence.

[A]

I'm not on the fence. What I'm telling you is everyone's saying Jackson. It's. It's these two quarterbacks in the. At the top of the board. Everyone's saying it, right? You get on. You get on X, you get on Instagram, you. You turn on the tv. Everyone's saying the same. It's Cam and Shador. Cam and Shador. I'm saying we'll. We'll get to Cam in a little bit. And we've already. We did it early in the process, but we'll keep coming back to it because it's the most important position. I'm saying I'm not seeing a big gap between these two quarterbacks. Truly. I think it could truly come down to what are you looking for? Because my biggest takeaway in this whole process, studying more of Shador, studying more of Jackson, studying going back and looking at Jaden Daniels and Drake May. This whole project that I've. That I've done. My biggest takeaway is that there's not two. Two of them. One, there's not a huge difference between Shador and Jackson Dart in terms of talent and their potential to be starting quarterbacks in the NFL. And that may shock some people. Number two, they're completely different styles. It's almost like watching a different sport when you're watching Shador the scrambling around, holding onto the ball, trying to, you know, beautifully creating and giving his receivers more time. But everything's east, west, backwards, running around and then making a beautiful throw because of his unbelievable instincts and his touch and his ball placement and all the things that he has that make him the best pure passer in this class. But with Jackson Dart, if I'm an offensive coordinator, if I'm an offensive head coach, like a Brian Dayball, you know, some of these, a lot of these guys in the league and you have a quarterback need and you're looking at this and saying, if. I don't know if it's about winning now, but like, I'm looking for a guy who's a little bit more in tune with running my offense, right? Who's going to keep it moving forward. Everything's climbing. The pocket tucking and running. If the reads open, sense it before and get the ball out. Take. Take the 3, $0.03 change instead of looking for the full dollar, right on a lot of plays. That's the difference between the two.

[B]

So I'm not a big analytics guy or I don't know how to say that. I haven't used analytics a lot over the course of my career, but I am trying. I do think they're an important tool and becoming even more important. So I get a little bit nervous when we start talking about these numbers. But when you talk about average depth of target for a quarterback, Jackson Dart is by far higher than any of the other top prospects. I think he's at 12.4. Cam Ward's, you know, I think two yards below that. And then. And then Shador is in the eights. And that's what concerns me about him a little bit, is how effective is he? Is he pushing down the field? You watch his entire college career, he is a surgeon. When he is in a rhythm, he can dissect a defense, he can get. He can't. That's when you were talking about the dichotomy. That's what's interesting for me about him is that he has the ability to get the ball out quickly and beat teams with short, intermediate throws and just go right down the field if he wants to. But sometimes he just chooses to try and make the big play and hold on to the ball longer. And he's a little bit, I don't want to say lackadaisical, but nonchalant about contact. You know, it's not only him holding onto the ball and taking those big hits. I've seen him not get out of bounds fast enough and take a big hit. I've seen him hold on to a ball that he's going to throw away and take a big hit. And it drives me nuts because he's so talented. You just, you know, you got to be better. And again, I know his offensive line's not great. I know it's a little bit better this year. I know it still wasn't great. I know his supporting cast outside of Travis Hunter isn't great. I understand all of those things. And those things are true. There's. There's stuff that he could have done to protect himself against big hits.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Right? So there's other things that are at play when you watch him on tape. And I agree with you. I think, I think it's a great way of saying it. And I'm always busting you on this one. I'm always trying to get you to be like, all right, well, who's quarterback, too? McShay? I think we're. We're in a conversation now. I think we're. We're. We're. It's. It's not. And I think that's a great thing for this class. By the way, Jackson, we don't have to say because Jackson Dart is rising, that all of a sudden Shador Sanders is falling because everything we saw about Chidora hasn't changed since the last time we took. He took the field against byu. So now all of a sudden, to be like he's falling off the map. Well, based on what? Because Jackson's rising.

[A]

That's.

[B]

It's just those two things don't add up to me. So I think it's great, and I, I think it's even a conversation again. But you. You kind of hinted at it, too, about who do you want to run your offense? And this is not. This race is not over. We're like, mile 20 of a marathon. You know, it's. It's tough right now. You're trying to figure it all out. You've done a lot of homework. But you're on mile 20. You're trying to get to that finish line, and that's what's going on. And Cam Ord, you know, everyone seems to think he's number one overall right now, and that's good. I mean, he's had a great year. Talented kid. It's. I think these three, there's going to be an interesting conversation, and then the other conversation will transition to how early? Because we know, you know, comparing him to last year's class, I think we still all agree, not the same as last year's class. Still four or five for the top quarterback in that class, whether if it's Cambor's, the first quarterback you'd probably be taken fourth or fifth last year. I still think that's true. So how early do you go? Are there going to be two quarterbacks taking the top five because of need and because these guys are now, as we expected, climbing up a little bit on teams, boards. It's going to be interesting to see.

[A]

I'm glad you brought analytics in because it's something I know, like I get so much on my X feed and all that stuff, but I did like we have PFF ultimate, like we have all those stats and we, we go through and try to.

[B]

Fascinating.

[A]

Yeah, it's fascinating. And there are some things that help support what we're saying and then there are some things that I look and I'm like, I better go take another look. Who's this edge rusher that I, you know, that I've got, that I haven't done this tape on at one point in the process or I've got him at 32, but every time I'm looking at different analytics or different numbers, it's popping up, whatever it is. So 90 of what I get on X, I either look at and laugh or I just ignore. But it was fascinating. This, this person, I don't even know who, who, who it is and there's no name on it but ZWK at ZWK Football. Give him a plug here. The same stats that we have, we have our hands on and we utilize and we look through. He put together a cool graph and I, I don't know, I don't have a whole background on it, but he did a couple graphs that I thought were interesting that showed up in my feed and I was like, oh, I'll check it out. And one of them was big time throws. Like you were mentioning the big time throws. Right. Big time throws under pressure versus big time throws when the quarterback had greater than two and a half seconds in the pocket. Right. Okay. Which I thought was fascinating. Jackson Dart was up there like. And you. I always look the first thing I look. All right, give me historical background. Well, some of the best guys in the league, as the graph goes up and towards the right, they have the historical back backdrop of Patrick Mahomes is, is basically the, the highest of them. Josh Allen is up there. Tua, Trevor Lawrence. So like it's not like it's no stat tells you the whole picture and nothing is perfect. But those are guys that we all had a lot of, you know, we liked a lot coming out of the draft and have had some level of success in. Lawrence is a Story for a different day. But I like to see some of those names. Okay. And in that Jackson Dart is slightly ahead of Cam Ward, but he's the best in this class on that graph. Okay. Just behind him and then below that, the kind of the Mendoza Line, if you will, is you should get to Shador and Quinn Ewers and Milroe and Howard and those guys thought that was interesting because to me what, what throws relate to the NFL big time throws and how do you do it under pressure. And then the other graph that he, he produced quarterbacks under pressure and production. Okay, up there on this list, Mahomes desean Watson, Tua Brock Purdy, CJ Stroud, Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lord. Like that's pretty good list. Okay now, now you've got my attention. Of the guys that are in this class, Jackson Dart is number one by a not a massive margin, but it's sizable margin greater than the one the previous chart that I told you over. Interesting. You ready? McCord, your guy, Syracuse. A guy that you have pointed out that you like a little bit more than other people maybe, right. Will Howard who we've talked about really progressed as his career went on. Dylan Gabriel and then really below the Mendoza Line. Shador Jalen, Cam Ward. Interesting. Again it's just some numbers because all this tape we watch to help have something that puts a little bit of perspective in the two areas that I think are critical big time throws under pressure. You know, I just thought it backs.

[B]

Up what you see on. He backs up what you see with. On tape with dart. He is, he will strike deep. I think he does. One of the things that jumped out to me is I love the way he reads safeties. You drift, you take a false step as a safety. He. It doesn't matter what the look is. He. If he has faith that his receiver can split the. The corner in the safety against two high looks or three high, whatever he's looking at. If you drift or take a false step as a safety, he's going to pull the trigger. He is going to take that shot because he has the confidence that he will get the ball there before you can recover.

[A]

I get into some of the other guys that that kind of popped from Colorado and, and Ole Miss.

[B]

Trey Harris, the receiver, Trey Harris, he was hurt second half of the year. I don't know what he's going to run. I don't really care. I'm tired of the. I mean I shouldn't say that, right? If he ran, if he runs a 4 8. Oh but. And I don't know if he's going to run because he has a groin injury. This dude has 2000 yards over the last two seasons and he only played in seven games this year. One of those games was Florida when he's hurt halfway through it or you know, fairly early on in that game. I love Trey Harris. I think if he's healthy, he's a guy we're maybe talking about sneaking into the first round.

[A]

I, I think he's going to rise a lot and I don't know that it's going to be because of his 40 yard dash. I think it's going to be the health. I think it's going to be like some of the. But you know the, the exploit. Lower body explosive. The. Some of the. Yes. Powerful. I think this, this class is interesting. It's not great a wide receiver. We got Ted McMillan from Arizona, Luther Burden from Missouri. Travis Hunter is a kind of. Is a wide receiver. Right. Wide receiver corner. So I, that's why I don't always lead with him because I do think he's going to be drafted as a corner with how much he will play Wide receivers is tbd. But a Mecca Buka keeps growing on me the more tape I watch. Matthew golden is my dude. I just love Matthew golden and I get golden at 3. Right there you got Hunter 1 as a receiver corner, then McMillan 2. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify. Matthew Golden. I'm. I've been planting my flag on that. That guy Luther Burden with the speed and explosiveness took a step back this year. How much of that was offense and quarterback driven. Mecca Abuka is another guy. All those guys in the top 34 but start off with McMillan at 11. So it's not like the classes we've seen in recent years. A lot of other dudes in there as well. Trey Harris, I've got him down at 85 and I'm admittedly too low on him right now. I've got it. After watching more Jackson dart and watching him in the games, he was healthy. He's going to be rising up. That board wasn't at the Senior Bowl.

[B]

You're like East West. He was gonna. I think he's gonna go east west. But he wasn't there either. He missed the All Star game because he's still not healthy.

[A]

Correct. So that'll be interesting to see with, with Trey Harris. But I think when it's all said and done, my point on this is I think he could be one of the top six, seven wide receivers taken in this class and maybe top five. Truly.

[B]

Can I talk about. Can I talk really quickly about another wide receiver that you have on that board that you talked about already about liking? And then I think you're a little low on still, because I went back and watched him.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Is the TCU kid Savion Williams? I mean, he is. You like Debo Samuel? If you like Debo Samuel, you're gonna love this kid, man. He is that guy. And he's a little bit stronger, a little bit bigger. A little bit. Not stronger. Debo's. I mean, no one's stronger than Debo, but he's a little bit bigger. Same kind of power, can run the ball, can make a play as his receiver, make contested catches. The production could be a little bit better, but this kid's gonna run in the same range as Debo, be a little bit bigger than Deebo and play that same kind of role. He's a guy, I think, you know, I'm an optimist right now. All of a sudden, I'm an optimist. I love everyone. I think he could be moving upwards.

[A]

The show is like therapy for you. By the end of it, you're all giggles. I think first of all, he. When you talk to scouts in the league, you talk about wide ranging from. He's like, don't. Keep. Keep him out. Keep him out of your mouth. Nickshay. Like, there's so much to work with. Their versatile weapon. We could really use. He would fit great in what we're doing. We. We have a great, you know, offensive mind to. Yeah, you can have him. Fool's gold, really. But I'll say, like, whether you love him or not, and we'll get to. We'll. We'll do different position groups and we'll get through to all this stuff. I. Yeah. I told you about like a month or so ago. I'm glad you're joining.

[B]

Yeah, you did.

[A]

But. But I'm up. You're too low. I will say as we look ahead to our shows on the 26th, 27th, 28th and March 1st at the combine, I promise you one of the names when we go through, like, the five, 10 biggest risers and the biggest stories from. From the combine. Savon Williams is going to be one of them.

[B]

He.

[A]

He's supposedly just. And you see it on tape, the explosiveness, his size. He's different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Breaking news. I guess it's not unexpected, but breaking news. Kellen Moore was just hired by the Saint Saints as Their new head coach. I don't know how much you want to.

[B]

I like it. I think it's a good hire.

[A]

I do, too. Yeah, I was. Quite honestly, I was surprised that that wasn't the hire in Dallas.

[B]

Yeah. For a number of reasons. Right. I mean, it kind of fits. I think Kellen Moore doesn't need to be that, you know, in front of the cameras as much as some other head coaches maybe do. And that would have fit with Jerry Jones kind of thing and his history there. It. That. That. That hire would have made a lot of sense. But I think the Saints do well here.

[A]

I think it was Chris Spielman. We were doing games a while ago as Kellen Moore. Just a real quick story. Kellen Moore is a prospect. I was like, he literally has everything that you look for in a quarterback. He functions between his ears faster and more efficiently than just about any quarterback you'll ever evaluate. And I don't know that I've ever seen a quarterback with greater anticipation getting the ball out and leading a receiver better. Like, I'm talking the top guy. Like, he. But no quarterback you'll ever evaluate does everything right. Like this guy. But unfortunately, he just doesn't have size or an arm.

[B]

Do you remember?

[A]

Killed me. He's like.

[B]

Well, he was. He was at the Senior bowl, and we went down there, and it rained one day. And back then, the senior bowls come so far. Back then, they. They would clear out the. The conference. The. The conference hall.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And they would practice down there. So you're seeing Kellen Moore in pads all week, and then all of a sudden, rain day. They bring him in, and you're like, who's. Who's that kid, you mean?

[A]

We're like, oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, oh, my God. That. That's Kellen Moore. I mean, he looks like the guy next to you. Yeah, he looks like the guy next to the grocery store. And a little bit of Dylan Gabriel there, a little bit of. Kind of reminds me a little bit of Dylan Gabriel. Those two players, how good they are.

[A]

Gabriel's got a better arm, but. Yeah. Yeah. The quick process. But mentally processing my point in telling that whole story is, like, it's not surprising to me at all. And I remember talking to Chip Kelly about it. Like, this guy, like, his mental and his anticipation are, like, off the charts. And so to see a guy take all that football knowledge that he had at quarterback and. And to apply it to coaching, it's. It's not shocking, but I. I like the hire, I really do. They've got, they've got to find a quarterback now, like, and they've got a lot of other things personnel wise. But, but I, I, I like him as an offensive mind, and that makes, makes a lot of sense. All right. I wanted to finish on this mensch. And I know it's a dangerous neighborhood up there in your mind, but where are you in your process? Any players that are jumping out?

[B]

I thought you're gonna go in another direction, and I was gonna lose my mind because this is the one, this is the one player I wanted to talk about. And again, it kind of loops back to what we're just talking about with Shador and Jackson. Just because I like this player doesn't mean I don't like the other player. Trayvon Henderson. We talked about him. We talked about him in the last pod. Hot name rising. Maybe a guy that goes in the first round. I've watched a ton of Ohio's tape tapes since then. Couldn't agree more. Although I don't know if he's gonna go in the first round. Couldn't agree more. I thought he was great this year. If you take, if you gave me the.

[A]

I was expecting you to be like, you're, you're an idiot. Here's the.

[B]

But here comes the butt.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

North Carolina running back Omarion Hampton is different. You talk about. He's not Ashton Genti. Ashton Genti had the most rushing yards per game in the, in the country this year. Who was second? Hampton. Genti. You know, the most yards after contact this year. Who was second? Hampton. £220. Man. He is £220. I hope he runs at the, at the combine because I think he's going to run super well. You're talking about power, explosiveness. I think that's one of the difference between him and Henderson.

[A]

Henderson.

[B]

Great contact balance, great toughness. Hampton's a, he is a pile pusher when he needs to be, and he's still got that explosive burst. I said Joe Mixon before. I will say Joe Mixon again. Omari and Hampton. If there's going to be a running back that goes in the first round other than Genti, if there's going to be two, it should be Hampton.

[A]

I'm going to tear this for you where I am right now, and I still have more, more tape to finish up. Obviously, the combine and the workouts and everything else. Genti is in a tier of his own.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But I don't, I don't want to make him out to be superhuman, where it's like this. Like, one guy can do it and he's elite, and everyone else is just kind of good. Like, I don't want that. And we'll get. We'll get into a much bigger discussion on this later. I. Raveon is two for me. Okay. But if you look at these, if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, I don't. Trayvon's two for me because of where the league is. And you need a back that can block. And he does it at an extremely high level with a nastiness and toughness about him that I love and the speed and explosiveness that he provides. When you see a guy like a Jameer Gibbs, like, I would love to see Tre Veon in Chicago. Okay. With Ben Johnson, with Caleb Williams in a rotation, I think he could have unbelievable success. But again, not a big gap between Henderson. In my mind, I'm. I'm bullish on Caleb Johnson.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

You can take your Omarion Hampton. I've got him as the fourth running back. And you. You can. You can just press pause until we get to that spot. I like Hampton. Got him in the top 50 as a running back. That's a. That's a tribute. Yes. Because I am not a running back draft guy. So if I got a back in the top fit, and you see the drop off after that when you get to, like, Laquin Allen, Syracuse, Jordan James, who I love from Oregon, Dylan Sampson I love from Tennessee, Cam Scatterboo from Arizona State, all in the top 91 overall. But there's a drop off when you get to that kind of third tier, if you will. So the first tier, if it's Ashton Genti, we'll call it that. Second tiers, Travion Henderson, Caleb Johnson, Omarion Hampton, and the third tier would be Laquint and James and Sampson and Scatterboo and others. There's two other names, though. As we get closer, I'm gonna. I need to finish up my tape, and I want to see the workouts and everything else. Devin Neal from Kansas, I just adore his run style. I think that works in the NFL. And there's a name that we haven't talked a lot about, and I've watched just a little bit of tape. D.J. giddens from Kansas State.

[B]

Yeah, he's gonna love it. Seems like he's picking up some steam right now.

[A]

Yeah, I just. I like his game. I mean, there's so many. Whatever. I just. I want to throw that name out there. I I. I like his run style. I think he's going to be an effective NFL back. That's it. I guess. Let's. Let's do a little cleanup here. Apparently the odds shifted. Fanduel Super Bowl 60 odds. You're going to be happy men. Take it. Thank God your, your, your, your boy. Jaylen Herz and The Eagles are plus 600 is a favorite, although not a significant favorite over the next two highest odd teams. Tucker just sent this to us via FanDuel. Chiefs are plus 650 and the Ravens. Eric Dasta, who we just recently spoke to. The Ravens plus 650 as well.

[B]

That makes sense. I was misled. I was misled.

[A]

That's all right. Probably got it earlier. Yeah. Thank you everyone. We appreciate it. I tried to keep it at 45 minutes. Did an hour and 11 and 28 seconds. It's the best I can do, man. It's the best I can do. I'm so. You can always fast forward if you're watching or listening on Spotify, on Apple, if you're watching on YouTube. We just appreciate it. We're. You can tell. You can just sense it. We're fired up. We got so much more to get to. We're grinding away on tape. Like this is the. You know it gets. It's still getting dark early here in the northeast. Like now's the time to do it. We come up up for air in a couple months but we're excited. The next next three shows we're just gonna go. We're gonna take you behind the scenes. I, I'm, I'm tentatively scheduled to talk to a general manager. I'm trying to get their exact schedule for the off season. I think that would be fascinating to share like from. From the scouting your area to the cross checks to the top 50 meetings. I like no one's ever shared that before. So I'm going to try to get an exact schedule to take you kind of behind the scenes and what goes on in that process. We're lining up GM interviews for the combine and we just appreciate you being here. So if you can give us a. Give us a dap. You know, subscribe like tell a friend. Don't make me beg. It's not a good sign.

[B]

I'll beg.

[A]

I know you will. And mentioned mentals continue to be feisty but look forward to talking to you in a couple days. We'll see you soon. Thanks. Must be 21 + and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, Hope NY or text hopeny in New York SA.