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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
It's the McShay show, presented by FanDuel. The NFL Draft is right around the corner and FanDuel is the best place to get in on all the action. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. And FanDuel has a lot of ways to bet the draft, with loads more coming between now and the first pick. So download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL Draft, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg d help.com to learn more about resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG D help.com this episode is brought to you by Noll. Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger, especially when you've got Best in Class award winning footwear backing you up. NO bowl is a footwear brand for training and for daily life built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And get this exclusive for the McShay show listeners. No ball is offering 30% off your order. Visit noble project.com mcshay for 30% off your your entire order. That's N O B U L L P R o j c t.com backslash McShay for 30% off. We're in the weeds right now. I don't have time to write something fancy open. So here it is. We got some news off the top, some kind of buzzy stuff. What we're hearing. Want to go through a few things. Then we've got a long drawn out wide receiver, tight end process. Teams in need wide receiver, tight end, tears and evaluations. 31 days until the NFL Draft. Mench, you good?
- [01:56]
Mensch
I'm good man.
- [01:57]
Todd McShay
All right. Play some music. Calm me down a little bit. Tuck, if you're joining us. Thank you. Thank you all your support. The numbers keep growing. We are thrilled about it. Everyone around us is thrilled about it and it's only because of you. So we appreciate you listening and watching on YouTube, Spotify, wherever else you get your podcasts. Please continue to do so. Today Mensch dropped another new newsletter, the McShay Report. Okay, four bucks to get through this draft. I've got a buzz column coming up on Thursday with all the quarterback evaluations. We've got a show to support that. We're going to get into a lot of buzz newsy stuff. It's $4 to get through this draft, 36 to get through this draft and all of next year's draft. Double down, folks.
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Mensch
Just Google down.
- [02:57]
Todd McShay
Just google the McShay report and you can find it all there. We don't have time for all this housekeeping, men. Very quickly tell the people how they can continue to support us.
- [03:05]
Mensch
Hit the Follow button on Spotify. Hit the subscribe button on the YouTube channel. He's @mcshade13. I'm at you. Good mench. That's M U E N C H again, please consider subscribing to the McShay report. Some good stuff in there. That's the quick hit for today.
- [03:20]
Todd McShay
I appreciate it. Okay, so we, we've got a lot of wide receivers. It's not the greatest class in the world, but there's a lot of value to be had. We've got a great tight end class by all accounts and I would agree with that. We want to get to a lot of different players. We want to give everyone their, their love and, and really honestly just unload the fact that we've been watching days worth, probably weeks worth of tape. If you go back to last May in, in terms of the preparation for Steve and I. So we want to give that the, the, the full respect it, it deserves today. But I really quickly want to just jump into a few topics again. Thursday show, come back here. We're going to get into a lot more in depth. What a lot of what we're hearing. Some, you know, some interesting information. But I just want to touch on a few things quickly. Right today, the Miami Pro Day. Not just Cam Ward's pro day, it's Miami's pro day. Interested to see Cam Ward. Honest to goodness, is he healthy? Does he look happy? Things good? Anything different? Anything he's working on. But at the end of the day, as long as he's out there, his arm is live and everything looks like it. It's looked on tape, especially this past year at Miami. Nothing's going to change. He's the most coveted player in this draft. Very likely to go number one overall. Very likely to be the Tennessee Titans. I do find it interesting though. I just wanted to touch on this for however long you want, but not very long. I don't know. I. And, and the pro days we're taping on on Monday. The show's coming out Monday night. We thought about pushing it back to watch the pro day, but like, honest to God, I've been to so many of these things for the last hundred years, dating Back to Jamarcus Russell was my first one. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was being at that pro day and people around him and thinking that he was like, you know, chill and poised and Joe Flacco type poise and things didn't bother him when in fact he was just lazy and he was sitting down to do interviews. And like, I should have seen the red flags and had I it been 10 years later, I would have. But I was a pup. But my point is I've been to a lot of them and while they're fun to cover and it's great to be there in person to see the live arm if you haven't seen him live in person. And it's great to be there to talk to all the other decision makers and people around the league who are there. It doesn't affect his draft stock very. Like Teddy Bridgewater, that scared some people with the glove on, glove off. What's going on with him? Like, there's been a couple over the years. Today's Cam Ward is not going to be one. But I do want to mention this about the Miami pro day. In addition to the fact that it's not just Cam Ward. Like, we're going to get to see Elijah Arroyo, the tight end, and we'll cover him in a little bit, run his 40 yard dash. We'll see. Restrepo, we'll see. There's a lot of players there. But I found it interesting. It just got me thinking. It's my crazy brain this time of year. Why are the Giants there with Joe, Shane and Brian Dable and like the highest level contingency that they can be there with if they know they don't control that picket at number three I had.
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Mensch
So diligence, you got to do your.
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Todd McShay
Due diligence and you can say, well, royal in the second round or, you know, but yeah, you're not sending Shane and Dable and yes, you have to do your due diligence. Should Tennessee complete its process, which it's close to completing, people are expecting like early April, right? First week of April, maybe they're done with their process. They've decided he's either our guy or let's take some phone calls. I just kind of wonder though, right? Is it like the crazy girlfriend, the ex girlfriend, who you just broke up, found out that you're going to be at this restaurant or this bar and he's not picking up my calls, he's not returning my texts, he's not responding to my dms. And maybe if we're there in person. Maybe he'll talk to me. Maybe I can corner. Maybe I can corner him in the bar. A couple drinks in and.
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Mensch
Jeez, man, I don't know.
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Todd McShay
And Brian and Joe, I'm not calling you the crazy girlfriend. I'm just saying I have this vision in my head of there's not really some communication. Maybe we get down there and we're friends and we've known each other league circles and maybe it's an opportunity to talk.
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Mensch
Maybe they just want to go to Miami in March, man. I mean, I know I would.
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Todd McShay
Not a bad call either.
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Mensch
Due diligence. That's what they're doing. They're just making sure they're. They're on their eyes, crossing their T's. And maybe they're still trying to get a deal done and maybe they're. They're hoping it's.
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Todd McShay
I mean, I just do wonder if we, if. Because you always hear these stories in like May, right? The week after the draft. May. Sometimes things leak. You know what, what no one's told you yet is that when we were down there at the Miami Pro Day, you know, we, we talked to Joe Shane and you know, that at that point we started talking parameter, you know, I don't know.
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Mensch
Yeah. Just dinner with so and so. It's at such and such place. Yeah.
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Todd McShay
Right. You just. I always wonder what's, what's going on behind the scenes. So. Jalen Walker, I'm just going to rip through a few things, Buzzy here. Just interesting. Jalen Walker reports about him having really, you know, in extensive meetings with the Tennessee Titans. They're picking up one. It's very likely going to be Cam Ward is what we're all saying.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
He's coming off that injury, the, the quad injury, rehabbing, recovering, trying to get ready to have his own, you know, pro day in April. He's not going to work out it in Georgia's pro Day. He's going out in, in April, apparently. Excuse me. So again, my mind goes to two places and, and if you, you can drive yourself crazy reading the tea leaves, I'm not one of those guys. The 30 visits and he was there and they were meeting. But when you hear the Titans were meeting extensively with Jaylen Walker, again, everyone's going through their process. Everyone's doing their due diligence and this is part of it. And I saw someone say, well, you know what if he falls because of the injury, they could be looking in round two, or maybe they trade up into late round one. To get walked. That's not happening.
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Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
I do find it interesting on, you know, in the same 48 hour span that, that there's a report of this long work, this long meeting that they had with Jalen Walker, that the Giants are in town, you know, trying to maybe have continued dialogue and do their due diligence.
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Mensch
I love it.
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Todd McShay
Because if, if it's a trade with the Giants, they're drafting and they're moving back and they've decided to punt on quarterback this year or maybe to take one in round two. You're drafting Travis Hunter or, or, or Abdul Carter at 3.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
But if it's further back, if it's the jets at 7.
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Mensch
Knew it. I knew that's where you're going.
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Todd McShay
The Saints at 9. Jalen Walker's in play. I don't know.
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Mensch
You can't do that to jets fans, man. That's just unfair.
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Todd McShay
No, I'm not. I'm just saying these. Here's the thing. I like to read a report and then put the 25 years of experience that we have in play and try to explain, well, why would that be? This show should be the why not the report. And we're never going to be the we reported. We told. I've had so many reports in first hit. Like I knew when a certain superstar quarterback was going to sign within hours and I let a certain place know that I was working for. And like, I will always pass that information. I don't want that lane. I don't want that life. Okay?
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Mensch
No, you do not.
- [10:59]
Todd McShay
I wouldn't mind that money, but I. But I don't want that life. But what I like to do with this information is, is to spin it forward and try to talk about what that could mean. And so I think when you pair those two things, it becomes a little bit interesting. That's it.
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Mensch
Yeah, you hinted at it too. Like 98 of this stuff is just smoke. Right. But every once in a while there's something in there. So it's, it's worth, you know, like acknowledging that this is out there and.
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Todd McShay
If nothing else, for the viewer and the listener, like, because you always hear the same buzzword, like they're going through their process, they've got steps, they're checking boxes, all those sorts of things. Right. But why? You know what I mean?
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Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
The, the why is because. Because we actually haven't decided yet definitively. It's not over. And until we've organizationally decided that Cam Ward is our guy, we have to continue our process as if Trading out is an option.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And that's what this is. That's all this is. And, and it will very, very, very likely amount to nothing. But as an organization, you have to do your due diligence on all of these things because what happens if this trade offer comes in with the jets or the Raiders or the saints at, at 7, 6 and 9, respectively? I didn't go in the right order, but if, if an offer comes in that you cannot refuse, you better have done the work on all these other guys. And to me, I don't know, I just love the process. Another thing that I was mulling, and it's interesting, Daniel Jeremiah, I'm never gonna. Like, I, I think it's hysterical when people tiptoe around. Like, you know, I was thinking. But it's a thought I've had for a little while and, and it has not like, I've not been obsessive about it, but I, we keep talking about the four pieces of the puzzle with the Patriots at four, and I've thought to myself a couple times, like, okay, what, what happens if Cam Ward goes one, Abdul Goat Carter goes two and Travis Hunter goes three? What. What if? Right.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And we all have pointed to, well, well now like that's kind of doomsday for the Patriots, assuming that a team doesn't want to trade up to four to go get Shador Sanders and then we all kind of flip to, well, Jaylen Walker would make a lot of sense if, if they have him that high on their board, a versatile defensive chess piece for Mike Frable and, but more, but like much more in line with what they need. And a player who's been rising is Armand Member, the offensive tackle from Missouri. But then I, I read the Elliott Wolf clip and everyone says at this time of year, again, you know, for what it's worth. But I, I truly believe that they're one of the bunch of teams. A lot of teams did a good job in free agency, addressed a lot of needs, put themselves in position with their first few picks, with all of their picks. But you know, when you're, when you're looking at premier picks and guys that you believe should be starters for you to take the best bpa, best player available. Right.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And what. And Wolf came out and said that in his press conference with the Patriots or wherever it was, might have been some fan thing. Wherever it was he came out and said that. And find me a general manager who's not going to say that at this point in time unless it's there Right. Answering questions only about quarterbacks. But they're not, I mean outside of offensive tackle. And if, and there's no other wide receiver, they're not completely long wrong in that thinking. Right. And if you don't believe Meu or, or Will Campbell is worth the fourth overall pick. And I think there's a good people, a good percentage of people inside the league that would agree with that. They're really good players, like their potential, but maybe it's a little bit of a reach. And everyone you talk to in the league, everyone. Now a lot of people will say, I wouldn't take a running back that high, but everyone you talk to in the league has an elite grade on Ashton Jinte. And then I was watching, I had McAfee on in the background. He cracks me up in the background. I'm running around doing a couple things today and, and our good friend DJ Daniel Jeremiah comes on and he mentioned maybe Ashton Jinty. And I was like, man, I've been thinking that why did he beat me to that? Like, I had thought that a couple of times when I was looking at the pieces to the puzzle, but I'm like, it's not. They need a running back. Like Ramon Stevens is not the, is not the long term answer. Like they need an upgrade at that position. But this is a very deep running back class. They've got a much bigger needed offensive tackle. They could have Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter fall to them. They need a wide receiver.
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Mensch
So like, but in your scenario, Hunter and, and Carter, Carter are gone.
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Todd McShay
And you have a significantly higher grade on for Genti than you do for Memboo or for Jalen Walker. Just interesting because I've thought it. And then I heard him say that and, and then I heard Elliot W. The, the, the order was I had thought it a couple times when we were having these Patriot talks. And then Elliot Wolf, I read that, I saw that clip on social media. And then I'm watching just a few hours ago, watching, watching McAfee and Jeremiah mentioned that just like it's pretty common sense. Like neither Jeremiah nor I is a genius. I would say that with him sitting here and he would say the same thing about us if we were talking together. But, but like we've been around this long enough to, to know, like it's not out of the realm.
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Mensch
No, I will say by next week you're going to have Genti going to Cleveland. He just keeps moving up, moving up, moving up.
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Todd McShay
Okay, good addition this conversation. I don't know, I'm just trying to make sure. Here's what I'm trying to do.
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Mensch
It's not crazy.
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Todd McShay
31 days out of the draft. I do feel like we get in ruts where it's like, okay, well New England's there and it's. If it's Hunter or Carter, it's either Hunter or Carter, but if not it's got to be the offensive tackle. So let's put Membu there. And I think you start to see that in all the mock drafts and every. You know what I mean? But organizations don't always, more often than not see it a little differently. So I'm always trying to like make sure that we're not ignoring. We don't have any blind spots. That's all I'm doing here. Just. Yeah, think about it. Consider it as we get closer. 25 days, 20 days. Consider this, don't rule it out as a possibility. Final thing, Jets. I've mentioned it before. I'll continue to mention it because I know it to be true. Thrilled to have Justin Fields. He's going to be the starter. Let's move forward with them. But it's not a contract that, that absolutely, you know, locks them. This is not Deshaun Watson.
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Mensch
It's a two year deal, right? I think it's a two year deal.
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Todd McShay
Yes. Yeah, I believe so. I, I have to double check and maybe Tucker can double check what we're talking about it. But there's been, there's again not breaking news here. There's been reports that the jets are by. By bringing in Fields. They've certainly alleviated the, the necessity to take a quarterback. They certainly though like, you know, they'll continue to evaluate two year deal confirmed by, by Dan. Thanks Dan Gomer. And so you're in a position as the jets to. Okay, let's, let's finish our process. Let's go through the process. There's some, there's some love in that building for Jackson Dart. Interesting where that the Ole Miss quarterback is kind of climbing creeping up in terms of the media conversation as the, as people inside the media who are in the known, have good contacts are talking to people in the league. It's the same thing every year. We didn't think everyone in the league except Denver and everyone in the media except a handful I'm sure viewed Bo Nicks as a second round prospect. I did too. Hands up.
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Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
And after his rookie year I was, I undervalued him. Perfect spot. You can argue. Well if you went somewhere else, all that stuff he absolutely played up to number 12. And you could argue maybe he could have gone higher, but I would argue that it wouldn't have worked as well somewhere else. My point is this. We know Cam Ward's going to go number one with almost certainty. We feel strongly that, that Shador Sanders could go, could go two or three and he could have a little slide if he doesn't go those two spots because I don't think other teams are quite as high as maybe the perception is. And there's been reports about a lot of other teams have second round, early second round grades on him and I, I can confirm that other teams I've spoken to do. But everyone in now is like, well, who's the third quarterback? We see it every year they get pushed up. Except the Kenny Pickett year they get pushed up.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
And Jackson Dart. I have a grade that equates to like late first, early second. And so I absolutely think he could. Tyler shucked the same thing. But, but I, I don't get the sense in the league. I think people in the. I know from the people I've spoken to in the league and very intrigued by him early in second round don't think he's going to get in the first. But Dart is there, there is some love in the building for him. He's. I don't think he'll be the number seven pick. I think that's what I'm trying to get across. Okay. I think the jets desperately need a difference maker.
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Mensch
Okay.
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Todd McShay
I, I think the jets and we're going to get to the tight ends in a little bit, have a quarterback who is not at the top of the pyramid in terms of passing efficiency, that's been okay. They think he can be better than what he's shown. They have an offensive line that needs maybe one more plug in and I think that could be an arman member at 7. But if I'm the Jets and I know the jets were damn close to taking Brock Bowers a year ago and while it's not the same people evaluating the roster, the roster's not changed significantly. Certainly hasn't changed at that position. So when you have a quarterback that needs kind of some easier throws, let's, let's bring up the percentage tight ends do that for you. So I think Tyler Warren is absolutely in play if it's not an offensive tackle and it would probably be Membu there or Will Campbell. But the dark things real. They know that 21 is scary. They have picks and I looked this up, 42, nothing. Not nothing really extra. Okay, 42 in the second round, 73 in the third, 109 in the fourth. All their picks all the way through the fifth. Then they have an additional pick from Pittsburgh in the fifth and an additional in the six and don't have a seven this year. So it's not like you've got this. Like we got five picks in the top 100 to move up. Yeah. So it would be next year where I. I looked again. They've got like a pair of sixes, but it's nothing as of yet. Is in addition to. So what would it take then to move up? I gave a similar scenario for. For the Giants Moving up to 19 in my. In Mach 2.0. Getting the McShay report. Shameless plug. Google it. Four bucks.
- [22:21]
Mensch
It's a great trade. I liked it.
- [22:25]
Todd McShay
And it was like a third this year and a third next year, I think, or something like that. Third or second, that's about what it would cost. So I'm interested to see other Jets. What if it is? Are the jets going to be in the mix to be the team that goes and tries to move up if Dart gets past nine? That's my question. Because it's interesting. It's a little bit of musical chairs and everyone says, well, the jets are fine. And yeah, they are. But what if they really like Dart? And what if Cleveland goes Abdul Carter 2, but the Giants take Shador at 3, Cleveland sitting at 33. Are they going to try to move up for Dart?
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Mensch
That's a lot.
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Todd McShay
Are the jets another team that then could be in competition? And then how high do you have to get? It's a game of like. Of chicken. I don't know.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
Just wanted to throw all that out there.
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Mensch
Yeah. It's a lot to give up for a player. I mean, it. Not all third quarterbacks are created equal. Right. I mean, the third quarterback last year was Drake made. The third quarterback this year is Jackson Dart. So when you're looking at it that way, it's a lot to give up for a player. That's. What do you have 28th on your board? I believe something like that.
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Todd McShay
Yes. Yes.
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Mensch
So we'll say 28. That's. You're giving up all that. You're giving up two future picks to get the 28th player on your board. Potentially, it's a lot. But the flip side is, again, we talk about this all the time and. And it's just one of the real truths in scouting. If you love a quarterback, man, it doesn't matter if you believe that he can be the guy, go get him. And you believe that and you. And you really think you need that. Use that seventh pick on a tight end or that's the way you want to approach it. Then go get them. I. Then I'm fine.
- [24:01]
Todd McShay
We've seen it before. We. We've. Like the Browns did it a while back, and then they had Brady Quinn later. A much better, more shining example is the one Eric D. Costa walked us through the backstory. Fascinating. If you haven't seen that, it's. It lives on our YouTube homepage. The interview we did with Eric Dasta, the GM for the Ravens, about how no one in the organization even knew they were trading up. It was he and Ozzie talking and they kind of struck a deal. They moved up to the end of the first round. It was Ozzy's last as GM first round pick. And. And they were able to get up there. A lot of people in this, in the organization were like, well, come down. We want to take pictures. A press conference, conference and all that stuff. And they're down. Hold on one second. And then they drafted Lamar and changed the organization forever. So I'm just. I'm curious to see. And it won't be that late, I don't think, in the first round. But if Dart gets past nine, where's that move up going to be? And we'll be to a team that really likes Dart, but says we we got to get our Tyler Warren first. We've got to get our Abdul Carter if you're the Giant, the Browns first. And then let's come up and go get our. Our guy that we've targeted. All right. I went too long on all of it, but it's all fascinating. And I just, like, this is the time of year that you can't read enough, can't talk. More importantly, can't talk to enough people about what they're hearing, the conversations they're having. And Thursday we'll get into a lot more of it, I promise. But here we are, wide receivers and tight ends. We're already 25 minutes in. Let's go. Wide receivers. I want to look very quickly. Okay. Teams in need. Because when we talk about this, we've got an audience from all 32 markets. And I think it's important, like, where is my team potentially going to be drafting a wide receiver in the first couple rounds if they do? And I made a quick list here. New England at 4. Only if it's Travis Hunter. Okay. They pick again at 38. So if they go Offensive tackle there, maybe they can get a weapon at 38 and we'll go through all these receivers, we'll break them down into tiers in just a minute. We will. We'll let you know who the first round guys are. Second round guys, I'll tell you where they're going to go and then I'll tell you where I think they should go and then men will. Will get pissy and. And you know, pick apart.
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Mensch
You've already got me in a mood.
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Todd McShay
I know I do. Good. It was that top 100 you did. It wasn't. It's not me yet. But take it out on me. That's fine. New England at 4 could be the first wide receiver and that's a wide receiver corner. But for them it's a wide receiver first, corner second. Okay, that's where. That's why I find it interesting. 38 is their second pick. Carolina at 8 needs a wide receiver. Huge mistake if they do it there. I don't think Dan Morgan's gonna do that. Defensive guy understands the importance. Take your pass rusher there, whether it's one of the Georgia guys, maybe Jalen Walker, Mikel Williams. New Orleans at 9. We've heard some rumblings of quarterback there. Jackson dart your boy Kuiper's mock draft still haven't called. Type my guy. Let's get Kuiper on either this Thursday or next week. Remind me of that. I always. Okay, Tucker, Dan, Connor, Eduardo, Mark, all of you remind me. OK, but New Orleans at 9 needs a wide receiver. I'll get to where everyone picks. All those guys pick in the second round because it's interesting. I see a run coming in early in round two. Dallas to me, the first true wide receiver. We're calling Hunter a two way player and, and for, you know, for a couple of those teams drafting in the top four, it would be corner and then moonlighting at wide receiver. Dallas to me is the first spot where Matthew Golden Tea McMillan. That's the first spot where I could see one of the true wide receivers coming off the board after that 18. Seattle probably more offensive line but they're. But 18 and 50 is where Seattle picks Denver at 20. Could be a running back. There could be a couple different positions, could be defense because Sean Payton believes and you look at the history, he either goes big on offense or goes home and just trusts his scheme to get. Get his cats open. Then Green Bay never drafts a receiver in the first round, right? They pick at 23, Houston at 25. Offensive line need major. They need wide receiver help as well. Washington at 29. So those are the first round spots for the guys. When we start to talk about wide receivers, keep those in mind. What's fascinating to me though, Mensch, is where a lot of these guys actually grayed out early to like three quarters away through early to mid. Mid late second round. A lot of guys, and we're going to get to them in a minute. I think it's kind of where the depth of this class is. There's a lot of teams also picking receiver. We've seen this in years past. I wish I had it in front of me. There was a year just a few years ago where, where we didn't see one for a while and then there were like four or five in the second round. I can pull it up in a second, but my point is we've got a whole bunch of teams, okay? A whole bunch of teams that need wide receiver. Drafting the second round starts with 33. First pick in the second round, Cleveland. Okay, then 35, Tennessee 36, Jacksonville 37, Las Vegas. Right after that, 40. New Orleans jets at 42. Dallas if they don't get one at 12, 44. Arizona at 47, Seattle at 50. As I just mentioned, also Denver again, Denver at 51. So you're talking from 33 to 51, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. I think nine teams right there. Nine teams that need a wide receiver. 2019 was what I was talking about. Marquis, Brown, Nikhil, Harry.
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Mensch
Right?
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Todd McShay
Go picks 25 and 32. And then we had this run in the second.
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Mensch
The second round receivers are awesome.
- [30:22]
Todd McShay
Debo, AJ Brown, Mikole Hardman, JJ Arcega, Whiteside, Paris Campbell, Danny Isabella, DK Metcalf. Metcalf, yeah, all in the second round. And then. Or like for two of the first three picks in the third round were Deontay Johnson and Jalen Hurd. So, yes, third round pick 12 and third round 76 overall.
- [30:51]
Mensch
Wow.
- [30:52]
Todd McShay
Yeah. So what I said 2019 was that class. So I could see this being a little bit more like 2019. And I see a lot of good receivers in the second and third round and I see them differently. I want to say it right now. And Dan and Eduardo, you're back there. Tucker, clip it. This is going to be my best scouting of wide receivers I've ever done.
- [31:17]
Mensch
Here we go.
- [31:18]
Todd McShay
Ever.
- [31:19]
Mensch
At least you're. At least you're humble about it.
- [31:21]
Todd McShay
I'm humble about it. Mark it down, get the show code, save the clip, whatever you got to do. This is going to be my Best year. I know where these guys are going to come off the board. I, I just, I've had too many conversations with too many scouts and too many executives, too many GMs to not know a general range that's been narrowed as we get closer as to where these guys are coming off the board. I'm gonna mark this down, all right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna read off. This is what's gonna happen. And I'm not being there. I'm just saying, like, history. I know the general range. I know the general range. And, and my point is this, and I'll tell you my point in a minute, but here's the general range, and I want, I want to Revisit this on April 27, the Sunday after the draft. Here are your 13 guys that are very likely to go in the first three rounds. Okay? And they're going to be damn close to in this order. And, and more importantly, in this range might not necessarily be this order, but it's going to be this range. Travis Hunter is going to be first as a wide receiver corner. Ted McMillan and Golden are going to be the next two off the board.
- [32:29]
Mensch
Agree.
- [32:29]
Todd McShay
Either order. Either order depends on the team and what they're looking for and who they've fallen in love with. Those are all going to be. They're sure fire here. You see if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, top 12 wide receivers, I'm going to give you 13 right now that, that are very, very, very likely to go in the first three rounds. Luther Burden III from Missouri and Ameca Abuka, maybe in that order. Maybe flip flop, probably flip flopped, but they're going to go late first could one or two could fall. I don't think both, but I think one could slide. But they're definitively top 40 picks. Okay, then as we get into that second round range, when we talk about like the Jacksonville 36, Vegas 37, New Orleans 40, Jets 42, Dallas 44, Arizona 47. Here are the guys we're talking about that will wind up coming off the board in that range. Isaiah Bond, Texas wide receiver Burner Jaden Higgins, big tall, physical route running son of a gun from Iowa State and Savion Williams, who we'll get to in a little bit. My goodness, it is a. It's a roller coaster watching his tape. It's like a. It's like a fun house field trip. But they're gonna go in the second round. Besh, tcu. Also TCU teammates of Savion Williams, MVP of The Senior Bowl. Jack Besh will very likely go in the second round. Worst case, first few picks in the third. Like we saw a couple of those guys. I just mentioned third round. Jalen, Royal, Trey, Harris, Jalen, Noel, Troy, Horton. 13. I just listed above Hunter Tet, Golden Locks in the first. Burden, Abuka, probably first or top 40 picks. Bond, Higgins, Savion, rounds two. Besh very likely with them. Could be early third. Royals, Harris, Noel, Horton, third. Okay. I don't see it that way this year. That's not how I have them at all.
- [34:50]
Mensch
Okay.
- [34:51]
Todd McShay
You always get, you always get chippy with me. Like, yeah, you're trying to get your top 100 right now. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care.
- [34:59]
Mensch
It's gonna be a weird year. Top 100 wise.
- [35:02]
Todd McShay
Well, you, you're just nervous that I'm gonna smash you with it.
- [35:08]
Mensch
No, I know you are.
- [35:09]
Todd McShay
So I want to take this opportunity to like, I don't. Personally, I'm scared to death of Luther Burton and we'll get into him in a little bit.
- [35:19]
Mensch
Interesting.
- [35:20]
Todd McShay
Personally, I think Isaiah Bond from Texas is fool's gold.
- [35:25]
Mensch
Okay.
- [35:28]
Todd McShay
I'm not as high on Ted McMillan as a lot of people are. Okay.
- [35:31]
Mensch
I know you, you've. That's been your take from the beginning.
- [35:37]
Todd McShay
But I'm more interested talking off the top here instead of talking about how like the negatives on those guys and, and, and just, just ranking them the way I, I'm pretty confident they're going to come off the board. I'm more important. It's more important to me because it's not a great group at the top. And the way I see this, there's more varying opinions. And when there's more varying opinions and there's not these top shelf guys that everyone's kind of agreeing on all that. There's opportunity. I think there's opportunity in this class more so than in years past. I think there's opportunity in this class. Like I just read you from 2019 and they're not as big and physical. There's not AJ Brown and DK Metcalf necessarily, although there is. There is Higgins. There's. There's a couple bigger guys, but I think there's some smaller average size to smaller receivers, whether they're slot outside or have inside outside versatility. And I'm going to give you three right now, okay. Three smaller receivers that I really, really like in this class and mention I me made. There was a whole clip that Eduardo clipped off for us. You get a thing for Slot receivers or whatever your phrasing was. Right. And I kind of do in this class because I know it's a good.
- [36:59]
Mensch
Class for that, that kind of receiver. It's a really good class.
- [37:02]
Todd McShay
It's a really good class for this kind of receiver. But I also, I want to remind you of some things. Okay. For the top five guys in receptions in the NFL last year were either slot slot receivers and. Or guys who are average to smaller. They weren't like the 6263-big, physical, you know, Amanra St. Brown. Yeah. Malik Neighbors. Obviously he's in a different category. I understand. But not like this big, physical, imposing guy. Not Marvin Harrison Jr. Nope.
- [37:33]
Mensch
I'm okay with that. By the way, he played on the outside in college. That's my, that's my. What I'm interested in is who played inside and who played outside. But by the way, Justin Jefferson played almost exclusively inside in college and JSN did too. Smith and Jigba did too. So there is, there is some precedent for what you're talking about.
- [37:52]
Todd McShay
And CD Lamb, slot receiver.
- [37:54]
Mensch
Yeah, that's right.
- [37:55]
Todd McShay
Garrett. Garrett Wilson. Those are four of the top five receivers in receptions last year. Okay. Then you go beyond that. JSN Wandell Robinson, Jerry Judy Lad McConkey, Shakir Zay Downs. All those guys, not the biggest dudes.
- [38:15]
Mensch
No.
- [38:15]
Todd McShay
A bunch of them played slot or in, in and out. All had 72 plus receptions last year. So when I get going on these small receivers, like, yeah, but he's a slot receiver. But most of them that I'm talking about are, are built. They're built like Restrepo's 59 and 59 a quarter or whatever. He is 59 and change from Miami. But he's built like the lower body.
- [38:41]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [38:42]
Todd McShay
And these are the three guys that I've just got finished. I've finished up and I went through one after another. I'm going to do it for every position. Go back and re. Watch, stack them. Three guys that I think are going to get drafted later than they should get drafted and are going to be very productive in the NFL and I think they're going to contribute at least a decent amount. First. First off the. Right off the bat. Okay.
- [39:03]
Mensch
Okay.
- [39:06]
Todd McShay
Jalen Noel. I want to start there. Jalen Noel. The second one is Jalen Lane from Virginia Tech and the third one may surprise you because I haven't heard him talked about by anyone the entire draft season. Literally. I've never read something on social media. I've not heard a single person talk about him and I'm sure someone's out there. Well, I've been talking about him but then I haven't heard it. I'm sorry. Cher. DK from Florida. Okay.
- [39:38]
Mensch
Interesting player.
- [39:39]
Todd McShay
Let's start with Noel. Okay. And I'm going to ask you a couple guys who aren't and then we'll, we'll circle back and I know everyone wants to know what do you got on Hunter? What do you got on Matthew Golden? We'll get there in a minute. We got plenty of time. Time's our ally today. But I want to go to, to Jaylen Noel from, from Iowa State and I've done some social media stuff on him, put up some clips on him and stuff that I like and we've talked about it a little bit here. But Noel in arguably the best tandem.
- [40:08]
Mensch
Oh yeah.
- [40:08]
Todd McShay
In terms of complementing one another in all of college football. Last year he was the other guy to Jaden Higgins and I've got them ranked very similarly. Noel's gonna probably go in the third round and I think that's a frickin travesty.
- [40:22]
Mensch
Okay.
- [40:22]
Todd McShay
But good. Let him drop. Money's not all that different. Let him drop. Come in with a chip. What'd that do for Amanra?
- [40:30]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [40:31]
Todd McShay
You know.
- [40:32]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [40:33]
Todd McShay
And DK and AJ Brown and yeah and like a boatload of these dudes let them drop. Undersized slot five ten and a quarter, 194 pounds. Short arms, small hands. Eight and three quarters. Had some drops, nine drops the last two year that honestly the drops with the small hands they weren't like. Here's the thing with the drops. There were a couple where it's like they were like not great drops. They were kind of, they weren't good. Muff had had some I think 4 or 5 muff punts over over the course of his career and so it's not impeccable. But what I do see is like such a high volume of, of targets to this guy that they're going to be. And, and still at the 5.7 drop percentage. And you go back and look and of the nine there are a few that aren't that aren't that bad. Like they're, they're debatable and. Or understandable stuff that don't. Doesn't.
- [41:35]
Mensch
Right. Not all drops are the same by the way.
- [41:37]
Todd McShay
Correct. They are not all created equally but I, but I will say small catch radius and, and isn't. Isn't as crisp and clean in that department as you would like. But I do think he makes some tough catches.
- [41:51]
Mensch
He makes catches that with someone his frame and his catching. Raiders has no business making.
- [41:57]
Todd McShay
Thank you. So it kind of, in my opinion, it doesn't erase it, but it kind of offsets it a little bit. Here's what I love. Okay. With all these guys, I want to tell you what, what I like, what stands out. Why Todd is. Do you think he's going to work in the league and for. If you're listening and all of a sudden come come Friday in the draft, he gets selected and if he falls to round three like I'm hearing, you'll know who he is. Okay, I want to start with this. You think slot receiver undersized is probably like a 4, 48 guy? You know, most of these guys aren't burners either. He ran a 4, 3 9. Listen to this match. And it's not like it was all about his tape. All this workout stuff was just confirmation. But his combine workout was flat out sensational. 112 broad jump, best 401 1/2 inch vertical second best 4.17 short shuttle, top 5, 6.823 cone top 543 9. 439 is a sub four and was tied for ninth. Okay, four year player, three year starter, 202 catches, nearly 2600 receiving yards average just about 13 yards per catch as a slot receiver. Can get downfield, 18 touchdowns. What's different with him than a lot of these other guys? He's equal parts explosive. Like when you watch him get off that line of scrimmage, he's shot out of there. Suddenness, the savvy. But he, it's the suddenness and the savvy. It's equal parts. Okay, the way he leverages his routes, how sudden he is. He has a plan. He knows exactly how he's going to set you up. He works guys over breaking ankles. Like, I just. I absolutely love the way he runs routes. He's tough over the middle, no issues with it. Play speeds as good as that time. Speed 20.8 miles per hour at the Senior bowl was six fastest among all the players and second fastest of the wide receivers down in Mobile, Alabama. No fear in the middle. As I said, not very effective, but gives a lot of effort as a blocker. I know one's a slot and I know lad played outside, but when I watch the tape, I see the same shit Mensch. I see the same stuff with Ladd. It's this explosiveness from not the biggest body and the ability to set guys up, know how to get in and out and they just uncover, they just uncover over and over again. I love this guy. I would honest to goodness if you told me someone took him at 31, 32, I'd be like, okay, yeah, I get no problem.
- [44:30]
Mensch
I get it. I mean it's funny with guys who run that fast, sometimes their routes get really chaotic because they just don't know how to gear down. Everything's. Everything's so fast and chaotic. But with him, he, he knows how to tempo it. He knows how to make the most of his speed in his burst. And you see it, the way he gets out of brakes, I. It, it's. Yeah, he's a great route runner. Great route runner.
- [44:53]
Todd McShay
All right. Jalen Lane, Virginia Tech.
- [44:55]
Mensch
Yep.
- [44:56]
Todd McShay
And I'm going to give you your, your due in a second here, but I just want to rip through these three. Began his career mtsu, Middle Tennessee State. Got better and better there. Accomplished return man in 2021. Ranked second nationally in punt return average 15.5. Okay, 26 naturally in combined kick kick return yards. 580 transfers to Virginia Tech in 2023. Numbers are not breathtaking. And honestly I think it's part of the reason why I just didn't like I didn't prepare for him during the process. There were so many other guys were watching. It took until about the Senior bowl to realize oh this, this guy's. This cat's got something right. 79 catches, a thousand yards, eight touchdowns. But that's over two years. But think about the quarterback situation, right? Let the team in receiving last year. So it was, was what it was. Talked about the numbers backing up the tape. You ready?
- [45:53]
Mensch
Go.
- [45:54]
Todd McShay
He's undersized but just like all three of these guys that I'm going to mention. Tightly packed, shorter frame but built and like can. Can get through contact. Unusually long arms, almost 32 inch arms for a shorter receiver. He's 5, 9 and 3 quarters. I don't think I mentioned that. 191 pounds. So he's a little shorter even than, than Jalen Noel. But in the past decade at the combine. Write this down or listen to it. Absorb it. In the past decade of the combine, no wide receiver has ever posted a better trio of results in these critically important areas. 40 ran a 434 broad jump. 11 foot showing the lower body explosiveness and 3 cone 675.
- [46:43]
Mensch
Incredible.
- [46:44]
Todd McShay
Yeah, that gets your attention now I put on the tape a lot of screens, a lot of quick hitters, reverses in that offense. But when he actually had to run routes down the Field lightning quick, in and out, Tank Dell type stuff. Yeah, think about Tank Dell and his routes and all the video you've seen of him like that. I see the same stuff I do ball skills. Not again. Not a big catch radius.
- [47:16]
Mensch
But he's got big hands for his frame.
- [47:19]
Todd McShay
He does, he does almost 10. Yeah, I meant I forgot to mention almost 10 inch hands. Those are big hands. That's like Russell Wilson weird shorter frame, big hand type of stuff. But he's a hands plucker. Natural hand eye coordination. I I wrote this. I not the biggest catch radius but he's one of those guys I trust implicitly when I throw the ball in his area. Legit weapon after the catch. Love his transition. Quickness accelerates and I love his instincts. That's why he's so great as a return guy. His instincts with the ball in his hands, weaving in and out, feeling it when to hit. That cutback reminds me get him the.
- [47:57]
Mensch
Ball in space man.
- [47:58]
Todd McShay
I wrote this in my NFL fit. Capable of pushing immediately for number 3 starting job as a SL receiver and can be dynamic in the return game. I wrote most underrated wide receiver in this class. I also failed to mention the character work ethic. Every like he, he might, he might be the best value because I think he's going to wind up going in like the fourth. Wow.
- [48:25]
Mensch
Maybe the I don't but I can't slate for him. I agree with you.
- [48:28]
Todd McShay
Marvin Mims is the comp I gave him.
- [48:31]
Mensch
Interesting. He was in the top top three for the receivers in 10 yard split 40 broad jump, vertical jump, short shuttle and three cone. So the only test outside of of bench press he's in the top three. He also is a guy that ran past, caught and returned a pun for a touchdown this year. I mean he just give him the ball. Just get him the ball in space man and watch him do his thing. And he's, he's rugged for a smaller guy. I mean he's not going to run over people. But he slips out of tackles way more than I thought a guy with his size would. I love him. I love when he, when you just get him in the ball in space.
- [49:05]
Todd McShay
I love a couple things I didn't know there. I love that finally Chimera. DK Chimera. Sorry I should pronounce his name correctly. If he's going to be one of my, my favorite players in this draft. Played four seasons of Wisconsin, transferred to Florida. He's. He's a little bit bigger. He's six foot and a half. Okay. 196 pounds, long arms, 32 and an.
- [49:30]
Mensch
Eighth.
- [49:33]
Todd McShay
Transfers from Wisconsin four years, never had a quarterback. Yeah, he had for a handful of games.
- [49:41]
Mensch
Right? He's still developing. Yeah.
- [49:43]
Todd McShay
All right. But then I watched the tape. Sudden off the line of scrimmage, same. These three guys, when you put on their tape and you're watching all these other receivers, it jumps out because. And that's why you have to watch them all together simultaneously. Same like couple of days. Because they move. They move different. Okay. I. I watched him, like, vertical speed and. And suddenness of his routes. Now. It's a lot of crossers.
- [50:10]
Mensch
It's. Oh, yeah. Huh?
- [50:12]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [50:13]
Mensch
It scared me. I think we're gonna agree on what you say, though. It's. It's a lot of his production is him just running away from guys downfield on cross rosters. But. Go ahead.
- [50:23]
Todd McShay
But in the few times I saw him get in and out of breaks and those sorts of things, I'm like, he can.
- [50:28]
Mensch
Y.
- [50:29]
Todd McShay
He can. So that's.
- [50:31]
Mensch
He's got some juice as a route runner. He just doesn't do it very often, that offense.
- [50:35]
Todd McShay
So the suddenness, the separation, the potential to develop as a route runner is. Is intriguing to me. Again, we're talking about, like, maybe fifth round with DK because I'm hearing nothing. Maybe fourth because he ran the 4, 3, 4. The ball skills are. Are a little bit inconsistent. I will. I'll give that.
- [50:54]
Mensch
Y.
- [50:56]
Todd McShay
Very good on contested opportunities on tape, though. Ability to adjust behind him. All that, but just 35 percentile and drop rate. Part of it's the quarterback, part of it's. But I can't excuse it. I'm not going to sit here and. And turn a blind eye to it, but he's a burner. He's good after the catch, and he can get down the field. He. I should strike that. Not a lot of wiggle. He's more of like the cut and then straight line guy after the catch. He's not going to create and break ankles.
- [51:25]
Mensch
Right.
- [51:25]
Todd McShay
But he makes that sharp cut and almost always makes the first defender miss. Okay. I also love this four, three, four burners. You don't find many who are blocking their ass off against a linebacker on the second level. Yeah, and I saw it like three or four different times on tape, and I saw it consistently. Whether it's a db, whatever it was. He just. He plays the game with energy urgency. I. I just. I think there's something there with him that's uncovered. And I also. Then I look at the combine workout. Just like with. With.
- [52:01]
Mensch
Yeah, both.
- [52:01]
Todd McShay
All three of these guys. And you'd think with the combine numbers they'd be skyrocketing up and people would be talking about it, but it's not the conversations I'm having with people in the league. The combine workout he ran a four, three four is tied for the third fastest. Third fastest of all the wide receivers. 151 split. That initial burst off the line. Tied for fifth. 682. Three cone. Tied for fifth. 38 and a half inch vertical. Tied for seventh. 10 eight broad. Tied for seventh. I said Darius Slayton.
- [52:31]
Mensch
Interesting. I like that. I like that one. You got all the comps. I didn't come up with the comps today, but that's. I like that one. That's a good one.
- [52:38]
Todd McShay
Who do you got? Give me a couple of guys who you think are undervalued to the top of the board.
- [52:42]
Mensch
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- [52:46]
Todd McShay
That's why when it comes to managing.
- [52:48]
Mensch
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- [52:59]
Todd McShay
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- [53:02]
Mensch
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- [53:13]
Todd McShay
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- [53:40]
Mensch
You know, we'll go over it again. I just think the disrespect for Trey Harris is real at this point. I just think that he's a guy that can win on the outside. Ran in the four fives. I don't care. I know he's a little bit banged up last year, too. He's a guy. And the other guy, I'm going to talk about the same very similarly. But Trey Harris is a guy that after the catch is a pain in the ass to tackle. He is tough, he's strong. I think he run. I think he plays faster than he ran. When you watch the tape, he's got some real juice. After the catch, I think Trey Harris is. I think we'll see where it goes. I mean, you know, you've got the crystal ball. So you'll tell me what pick.
- [54:14]
Todd McShay
I already told you. Third round.
- [54:16]
Mensch
I know. I think he should go a lot earlier than that. A lot earlier than that.
- [54:19]
Todd McShay
And I don't mean. I know I come off as, as an ass. I'm kind. No, no. And I'm kind. And I think you know me well enough. I'm personally doing that to make the point, like, if at this point in my career I didn't have a really good sense for where these guys were going, I should probably find a different career. Right? Okay.
- [54:38]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [54:39]
Todd McShay
So through my experience in relationships and all that stuff. But my whole, the whole point in saying all that and trying to sound like a jackass is to say this year's provides opportunity for evaluators. Just like 2019 provided opportunity for evaluators to go find you a DK or an AJ Brown or, you know, some of those really good guys in the second round or Terry McLaurin in the third. Okay.
- [55:04]
Mensch
Right.
- [55:04]
Todd McShay
That's my point in this, is that.
- [55:06]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [55:08]
Todd McShay
Just because they get drafted there doesn't mean that's what. Like that's how it's all going to work out. And we know that. But 2019 was a perfect example, and I think this year could be very similar.
- [55:17]
Mensch
Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of value to find in that range and it definitely sets up for a run there, too.
- [55:26]
Todd McShay
No, I, Yeah, but I just, I want to back up what you're saying. He's a number. If things go perfectly and he's utilized the right way in a, in a West coast system. Big, sturdy, get him the ball. Shorter three, five yard out slants, think like the 49ers, the Jerry Rice's.
- [55:49]
Mensch
Yeah, yeah.
- [55:50]
Todd McShay
And let him do the work. And it's not. Here's the thing. Yeah. You'd love if he ran a 4, 4 0. He didn't. He ran a 4, 5, 4. But at 6, 2 and a third, 205 pounds, he's strong.
- [56:04]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [56:05]
Todd McShay
So it's a combination of vision, agility, smooth athleticism and strength. Because here's the deal, man. You make one guy miss a three yard catch, turns to seven, right? And yeah, for some guys it turns to 12. For him it's going to be seven. But find me someone who. Find me a quarterback in the league that doesn't want to throw a quick three yard outer hitch or slant and said, we got seven, now it's second and three.
- [56:32]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [56:33]
Todd McShay
That's what this guy he's gonna be that kind of workhorse for you. Okay.
- [56:36]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [56:37]
Todd McShay
All right, go ahead. Who else?
- [56:38]
Mensch
My other guy was a guy I thought had a lot of buzz early on in the draft process and then he, he missed the end of the year with the foot injury and I feel like it's kind of cooled off. But Jalen Royals from Utah State, similar build to Harris and you know he had regardless of position. No one had a quicker 10 yard split. There's a bunch of guys that tied but no one had a quicker 10 yard split than Jalen Royals at the combine. He was up there with all the other burners. Maybe not. He was I think a 44 2, but he didn't. So he didn't run a sub 4 4. But in terms of quickness and if I'm Todd McShane, I'm doing his report on after the catch. It's going to sound like whatever you want to do there. I know he got all the sound effects but he is sudden, man. He is sudden. After the catch, he's as he's catching it, he's already moving upfield. And then you add on to that. Just like Harris, he's got the build to break tackles, he's got the toughness to break tackles. I feel like he's a guy that had a lot of buzz early on and then can run. I mean he is, he's got the 44 speed. He can run, he could threaten vertically. I mean I just feel like he's being undervalued at this point. And with both of those players I see on tape, I think guys that can get off press, I think they are guys that can get off press and into their routes. So that's kind of why I value those guys.
- [57:50]
Todd McShay
Yeah, he was an interesting watch. He obviously injured last year. We should mention season ending, foot injury in October. Limited just seven games this past year. Still finished with 58, 853.
- [58:01]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [58:02]
Todd McShay
And average 15 yards per catch.
- [58:04]
Mensch
I think was ever 119 a game when he went down.
- [58:07]
Todd McShay
He's a Z receiver. Vertical run after catch. Speed, explosive after the catch. Here's the hard part for me if I'm just being honest. Not that we need to get in the weeds, but a lot of screens, hitches and verticals. Yeah. So like as a route runner and you're going to say, say that with a handful of these guys.
- [58:29]
Mensch
Right, Right.
- [58:30]
Todd McShay
So it's, it's a projection. But you mentioned 14 9. He tied Matthew golden, my top rated pure receiver in this class. Circle back on the top guys. Okay. I want to start with Travis Hunter because it just depends on the team. It just depends if New England drafts him. He's a wide receiver first. Cleveland drafts them, It's a combo deal. Giants draft them, It's a combo deal. I believe. You know, here's what jumped out to me and let's, let's save for. When we do the cornerbacks. Let's save the conversation because we've got tight ends to do today too. Let's just put it on hold. The utilization, the load management, what he did at college, the comparisons to Dion and to Champ Bailey and to everybody else because he, he was even more like. Think about Champ Bailey's career in college. It was absolutely sensational. He not only, you know, the most comparable season he had two years ago in 2023, with 50 plus receptions and three interceptions. Champ, you had to go back to 98 with Champ Bailey.
- [59:42]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [59:43]
Todd McShay
And. And Champ had 47 and three in his, like, glorious year that everyone references as one of the best individual performance from, from a player in college for good reason.
- [59:52]
Mensch
I mean, it's still an amazing feat. Yeah.
- [59:55]
Todd McShay
And then he went and did it again in 2024 with better numbers. But we can get into the utilization of him when we get to cornerbacks because he did play nearly 2000. He played over 2000 snaps the last two years. Offense, defense, special teams. Okay. I want to talk to you about him as a wide receiver. Okay. Okay. And. And in a second, I want to pull up the tier rankings, but I want to wait a second. As a receiver, I've got him probably graded notch below what the grade is for him as an overall player because there's value on both sides. Just. We'll talk about that in a second. What I see from him as a player, what makes him so special? Todd. Right. Like as a receiver, the first thing that everyone talks about, and I agree, is get the ball in his hands.
- [60:49]
Mensch
Right.
- [60:50]
Todd McShay
The speed, the explosiveness, the athleticism. I just think he's so creative and slippery, getting off the line, efficient in his movements, no wasted motion. And I think he'll only get better with, with more time. Like, you got to remember, he's spending a lot of time in the meeting room, practice field at corner trying to perfect those skills. You get him with an NFL wide receiver coach, whatever percentage of time it is, and you keep drilling some things in, I think he can be an even better route runner than he is right now. Absolutely special with the ball in his hands after the catch, the vision, the speed the exposure, like, he's just. He's. He's. Different planet. But I think the thing that gets overlooked and I'm surprised. He has some of the best hands I've ever evaluated at wide receiver.
- [61:37]
Mensch
Wow.
- [61:37]
Todd McShay
Travis. Travis Hunter's ball skills are at the. I hold him in the highest regard. His ability to adjust is uncanny. His ability to adjust when he's still on the ground or when he's in the air, when he's in flight, his ability to contort his body, to move, timing his jumps. Everyone thinks ball skills. It's like just the hands, right? That's a part of it. A big part of it is getting yourself in position. I always talk to my son Tate about it when we're playing catch. You catch with your eyes. Your eyes get you there first, but your body's got to be behind it to get you there. The last part, and obviously it's the part we all focus on, is securing that catch. But it's your eyes and your body and your ability to adjust that's so important. Important. And he is as good as anyone. I can remember evaluating his ball skills up there with the best I've ever evaluated. Travis Hunter is special when the ball is in the air. So it's not just the screen game and the quick stuff. It's not just the vertical.
- [62:39]
Mensch
Oh, no. Yeah.
- [62:40]
Todd McShay
It is his ability as a quarterback. The most important thing is when I put the ball in this guy's direction, if I don't make the perfect throw, am I going to trust that he can run to it when I try to lead him to it? Yes, he will. Can I trust when I put it up there and a defensive back has his back turn? Because with receivers, as a quarterback, you got to learn to trust him. I would trust this guy as much as anyone I've evaluated. And he's not that big. He's six foot and three eighths of an inch. He's 188 pounds, but he plays like he's six, three and lanky. That's the, like. All the other stuff's awesome, but it starts with being able to catch the football and adjust and make them make sure that you're going up and getting the ball and adjusting to it and plucking it on the run and transitioning up the field. His ball skills are as good as anyone I can remember evaluating in the last decade or so.
- [63:35]
Mensch
Yeah, I hear you.
- [63:36]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [63:37]
Mensch
No, I agree. I mean, it is. It is about the body control for me. It is about his. His ability to go up and get it and it's all like, you know, we, we overcomplicate some things. It's just about being a great football player. Those, those two things you mentioned. I think our instincts are what he can do with the ball in space and how he attacks the football. It's natural to him. It's not something that he thinks about. It's just something that he goes up and he's been, I mean, to be honest about it, he's just been gifted with these talents. Like it's, he know when he gets into space, he knows how to cut, he knows where to go. It's an instinct thing. And when the ball's up in the air, he knows how to attack it. There's no thought process there. He's just aggressive and he trusts that his body's going to do what he needs him to do. I, I, I agree with you on both of those points. I think he's outstanding when he has to, to adjust to a pass.
- [64:23]
Todd McShay
I would absolutely love to see him with Drake May.
- [64:28]
Mensch
Interesting.
- [64:29]
Todd McShay
Absolutely love to. Because I think he's even a better wide receiver than he is a corner. I think he's a damn, damn good corner.
- [64:37]
Mensch
Yeah, it's a good thing. You can get open quick. He's gonna have to get open quick.
- [64:41]
Todd McShay
I'm not saying forget all the needs and the protection. I'm just saying with a young quarterback who's, who's accurate but like, is still developing that part of his game, to have a receiver you could trust would be a lot of fun to watch for the next, you know, several years. I'm just saying he's the kind of guy that can take that thing to another level. And I don't know if he's going to be there. I don't know if he'll be the choice. I'm just saying that would be a fun place to watch him play. Matthew golden, he's my guy. Like I, Hunter's a different category. He's one of the elites. The top two players in this draft. It's about corner and wide receiver and how do you utilize him. Pure wide receiver, true position. Matthew Golden, I just love his story, man. Caught like 34 passes a couple years ago at Houston. Comes in. He's the, he's the number two to Isaiah Bond and he's not getting fed enough. Even though he was getting fed. Finishes with 58 catches but back loaded when the, when I, when Bond got the ankle injury and, and all of that average 17 yards per freaking catch. Manch and it wasn't just like these vertical routes or like quick hitting screens where he made one guy miss and go, but he's got that speed. Fastest guy in the wide receiver at the combine. 429. He's 5 11. He's 191 pounds. Okay, we got to hurry this thing up. We can't go into all the detail and minutia with all of it. And you can read the McShay report to get more on these evaluations, but I want to tell you, if his suddenness and crispness as an athlete, his ability to get in and out of breaks, his ability to adjust to the football, it's different than everybody else in this class. And I just told you how much I love Jalen Noel. Yeah, I told you how much I like Jalen Lane from Virginia Tech and Chamore DK from Florida with the 434 speed. This guy's different. It's not because he runs a 429. He's the. And I wrote this in all caps in my evaluation. Golden is the only guy in this class that moves like this. And I went in all caps when I was done with the first 22 receivers. Matthew golden from Texas is the only guy who moves like this. It's different, folks. And it reminds me, I've said Tank Dell before. He put his teammates with Tank Dell in terms of the feet, the quickness, the Christmas. It's not like I see when I. When you start watching clip after clip after clip, play after play. I'm not saying he's Tyreek Hill, but he's not that far off.
- [67:11]
Mensch
Wow.
- [67:12]
Todd McShay
Explosiveness. Get the ball in his hands, the way he runs, that suddenness.
- [67:18]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [67:19]
Todd McShay
Jay Lee's somewhere in between those. Those. Those Miami receivers.
- [67:25]
Mensch
Gotcha.
- [67:25]
Todd McShay
He's. He's bigger than Tyreek, and he's not. No one in this planet has that suddenness, quickness and top end speed combination. He's a notch below that. But, yeah, I mean, guys that you can say are just a notch below that. And Jalen Waddle, you know, he's like.
- [67:39]
Mensch
I like that.
- [67:40]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Yeah.
- [67:41]
Mensch
I mean, I knew what I knew from watching him on TV that he could. He could take the top off and he could make those. I mean, I always think of the catches he makes down the sideline where he's twisting his body around, just catching it in stride, and without losing any speed, he's making this acrobatic catch with his hands. I mean, that stuff's incredible. But to me, when I threw on the tape, I was blown away by his ability to separate. I was just blown away. I was like, nobody separates.
- [68:06]
Todd McShay
So I came in this class. Nobody.
- [68:07]
Mensch
It's. It is different. And I think it's. It's something that's not talked about enough because I think the deep stuff overshadows it. You look at him and you're like, oh, he's a burner. Absolutely. Absolutely. He's a burner. Absolutely. He can take the top off the coverage. Absolutely. He can make acrobatic catches downfield. But also, like, don't, don't get. I mean, when you're, when you're evaluating receiver, can he get open and can he catch? That's what you're really looking for. And, and that's where you want to start with. And he excels. Excels as a route runner.
- [68:39]
Todd McShay
Let's throw up the tiers because this is where it's intriguing to me, and I want to look at the wide receiver and tight end tiers because we're gonna have to transition to tight ends in just a little bit. Travis Hunter, we talked about his tier one, the combination. I put 94 in parentheses there because that's what I would have him graded as a wide receiver. And it's worth noting, it's literally a tick behind Malik Neighbors and Marvin Harrison Jr. From a year ago. And you know, the regard I held them in, and that's not even including as a cornerback. You know what I mean?
- [69:12]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [69:12]
Todd McShay
But I think it's worth mentioning. 94 would be the grade I would give him, which is just a tick below those other two, and they were top four picks. Okay, we'll get to the tight ends. We've got Warren and Colson in there. Tier three, Matthew golden, he's in that only the only tier. Okay. And. And, and the tier 3 is typically equates to a middle to bottom half of the first round where they come get drafted. But the purpose of the tier 3 and the reason we give these grades is not about great, not about the round they go in. It's about what we expect them to be. These prospects in Tier 3 grayed out as immediate contributors and should quickly develop into assets as starters, Right?
- [69:58]
Mensch
Yep.
- [69:59]
Todd McShay
And that's what Golden's going to be. And eventually it could be a Pro bowl type player. Truly eventually. After that, you've got Ted McMillan for me. Now, some people have Ted McMillan in tier three. A couple people in the media, I think, have set McMillan Tier 2. I've not talked to anyone in the league. I think in the league it's more tier three to tier five. Okay. But Ted McMillan is there, and I already told you, it's going to be golden. And Ted McMillan are going to be the two first true wide receivers off the board. Then it's going to be a Mecca. And you'll notice there I've got Luther Burden iii. I think he could be the, the fourth receiver taken if you're excluding Hunter, the fifth if you're including him.
- [70:47]
Mensch
Okay. You teased this earlier, man. I got to know why are you afraid? What, what scares you about Burden?
- [70:54]
Todd McShay
I mean, I see this stuff. Everyone sees awesome after the catch. Great, great hands at times.
- [71:02]
Mensch
At times, Yep.
- [71:03]
Todd McShay
Great hands at times. I thought he struggled adjusting this year. I see some toughness, I see some strength. I see a lot of elusiveness. I see a guy who's explosive. He ran the 4 3. No, 4, 4, 1. Sorry to back it up. Not elite elite, but very, very fast. I think like, like Debo Samuel, you've got that versatility. You've got, you know, he rushed the ball 34 times, 7 yards per carry. I see all those things I do. And, and I think it's very important to note. I went back and watched 2023 and it's a hell of a lot better and it leaves a much better taste in your mouth than 2024. It's a whole different experience.
- [71:48]
Mensch
Yep.
- [71:48]
Todd McShay
But here, here's what I do know, and we're at that point in time. There's a lot of stuff that comes with Luther Bird and it's been reported, but there's family members and girlfriend and just external stuff that I think factors in. I don't think I know. And I only say because I've talked to the NFL scouts who do their background checks and everything else. There's a lot of diva. And the biggest thing, you know, what I talk to when I talk to NFL teams they can't unwatch is he just flat out quit in that Alabama game this year. And I'm sure I'll get yelled at. I'm sure I'll have people calling and sids and everything else, but go watch it for yourself. And so the talent. And remember, Debo fell. Deebo had some Knicks, Debo got out of shape. Loved his tape.
- [72:44]
Mensch
But there's concern.
- [72:45]
Todd McShay
Yeah, some stuff with Debo. He's overweight, he's not trained, you know, all that stuff.
- [72:52]
Mensch
Listen, I, I watch his tape and I mean, this is great stuff. I think about the end of that South Carolina game where he beat the slot and made the one handed catch with his left hand over his shoulder and you know, you watch him after the catch and there's stuff to get excited about. I think the second round's a good spot for him. I mean, one of the things that really concerns me about when I watch him, how they scheme to get him open. I mean, they are. They're motion out of the backfield. They're always finding ways to get him the ball, which you should do. I mean, you're making the most of that skill set. But I don't see a guy that's a polished route runner at this point. I think he's going to have. It's going to take him a little time to develop. Whenever I saw him in the first round, I was always like, you know, talented players got some upside. Not a guy that I feel good about taking. Taking early.
- [73:37]
Todd McShay
Yeah. And here's the thing. You go back and watch 2023 and then you watch it against any tapes for Mecca Abuka, who's the other guy who's in that range who I talked to you about. I think they're going to get drafted within the same ten spots. Okay.
- [73:48]
Mensch
Okay.
- [73:49]
Todd McShay
Burden comes with some stuff and can you trust him? And what's it. Is there going to be some headaches and is he gonna. Right. Is the compete level as high as you want? Every week in and week out, then you get a Mecca Abuka and you watch those two tapes and you get done with all of them and you're like, oh yeah, Burden. Burden brings a lot more. There's more juice, there's more. It's sexier, right?
- [74:11]
Mensch
More treats. Yeah.
- [74:13]
Todd McShay
But then I, but then I. Let me give you my little pitch on Emeka Buka, who I know you're not as high on as I am and I want.
- [74:20]
Mensch
I really like. I'm not as.
- [74:21]
Todd McShay
I think he's a top 40 prospect. I think he. I think he could go late in the first. Probably will go late of first and I don't have a problem with it. Listen, man, Mecca Buka right now like he's leads the Buckeyes in career receiving yards, almost 2900 career receiving yards. That's better than Michael Jenkins. It's better than David Boston, Chris olave, Marvin Harrison Jr. Devin Smith, San Antonio Holmes. Garrett Wilson's kind of a good list. Okay.
- [74:52]
Mensch
Yeah, they all, they all left early though, right?
- [74:54]
Todd McShay
205 receptions. Also ranks first and 24 touchdown catches tied for seventh on that list. Okay.
- [75:03]
Mensch
All jokes aside, it is an amazing feat. I mean, it is. I mean, that school that that, yeah, it's an amazing feat.
- [75:10]
Todd McShay
Here's the thing with him. There's not a. There's not a unique special trait that jumps out on tape. When I watch Matthew Golden, I'm like, holy shite.
- [75:19]
Mensch
It's different. I agree. Yep.
- [75:21]
Todd McShay
Right. And I watch. I watch. I watch dk and I watch Noel, and I see a little more. Right.
- [75:26]
Mensch
Yep.
- [75:27]
Todd McShay
Okay. And then you see Ted McMillan. And whether you love him or you like him or you don't like him that much, you see catches and you see length and you see athleticism and the former volleyball player, and you get.
- [75:38]
Mensch
Why people like him.
- [75:39]
Todd McShay
Yeah, absolutely. Right now, the attention to detail is frustrating. And again, he's another guy. And how many of these guys who are. Who to me, like, Isaiah Bond's tape in 2023 was better at Alabama than it was in 2024. Way at the ankle, and things weren't going well. So I worry about, like, some stuff there. Burden. I told you this stuff. Ted McMillan, was he protecting himself this past year? Quarterback plays not as good. They lost a bunch of guys, remember, in 2020 to last year's draft, and he's back there playing out his career, and he's trying to protect himself to be a top pick because the 2023 tape's a lot better. But you wonder, is the com. Like, I don't know. I just. I. I left Ted McMillan's tape wanting more, but I saw the flashes are explosive, and can you get that kid? But can you. Is he gonna give you everything you need? There's some stuff over the middle that I'm like. I don't like what I'm seeing. Some attention to detail that I'm like. I worry. And I told you, the Drake London comparison, I get it. But Drake London was better when the ball was in the air, more consistent. And Drake London was a flat out freaking dog. Yeah, I don't see that dog in him. So with all of these guys, he was so.
- [76:55]
Mensch
He was just projected so high coming into the year. It's put you in. No, it's put you in a difficult position. Because I think. And I think myself as well, with some players, you take the. The stance of, well, this is why I don't value him as much as everyone else is. You, like, you get put in this position. Just want to make it clear that right now, depending on how you view hunter, the Ted McMillan is either your second or third best receiver on your board. So people are going to hear things like, Todd thinks this and Todd thinks that, and all that well. Todd also thinks he's the second or third best receiver in this board, and that should not get lost in the mix.
- [77:31]
Todd McShay
But here's my. My whole thing on a buka. Can play slot, can play outside. Okay. Not elite size, not elite speed. We'll see what he runs at his 40s. Probably the pro date. Gonna be like a 445442. Maybe surprises, but not elite.
- [77:47]
Mensch
Good man. If he runs that psyched.
- [77:51]
Todd McShay
But I watched and I kept watching and I kept watching and I developed an appreciation for him over time. He's not the hot girl or guy in the club PC. He's not the hot one that grabs your attention in the club, in the bar, in the restaurant. He's just not. He's not the hot one. He's the one, though. A Mecca book is the one that you hang out with in a group of friends. Six, eight months, and you start to gain an appreciation. You're laughing at their jokes. They're supportive, they're fun to be around. Something goes wrong, they give you a call, they pick up the phone, they shoot you a text. They kind of bring out the best in you. You like how you feel when you're around them. You trust them. They're reliable. They say they're going to be somewhere, they're there. They. You ask them to do a favor, they do it. You gain a respect for them. They come from a good family. You know what I mean? Like, you meet them.
- [79:03]
Mensch
That's a hell of a parent.
- [79:05]
Todd McShay
Their parents come into town, you're all going out with friends, you have dinner, and you're like, oh, I like their pa. I like. I like his or her parents. And then over time, you're like, I'm attracted to this person. And the relationship becomes different because I trust them. I feel better when I'm around them. They're funny, they're fun, they're smart, but they don't jump out at the club. They're not like the sexy one in the corner where you're like, you see her, right?
- [79:38]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [79:39]
Todd McShay
That's how it is with a Mecca. I get it.
- [79:41]
Mensch
I'm a little worried about you, but I get it.
- [79:43]
Todd McShay
I know, but there's a maturation to this is a mature relationship with a Booka. Like, he does every little thing right. He catches the ball in traffic. He knows how to uncover his speed. Outs are beautiful. He's where he's supposed to be. He's reliable. I just know what I'm getting. The. The ceiling's not extraordinarily High, but the floor is as high as it gets.
- [80:07]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [80:08]
Todd McShay
And then you talk to his parents and you see. And you see the. The breed that he comes from. The stock Ohio State receivers, Brian Hartline, the work they put in, the commitment to the game. You hear this guy, it's just like McLaurin, man. I promise. I was at that pro day. I told you. There's all these other guys running four twos at quarterback, throwing the ball, all that stuff. There was Bosa running a 40. I was interviewing all these other people on television, but everyone there wanted to talk to me about McLaurin. It's the same way with the Buka.
- [80:44]
Mensch
Yeah. And I love that he came back after a kind of a down 20, 23, where he's banged up and just, you know, put his head down and went to work and had another great year.
- [80:56]
Todd McShay
So that's where we are in those. Throw up those receiver rankings for us again, Tucker. There you go. Those are the tiers and we've covered everyone. Jaden Higgins, I've talked about him extensively. I love the way he gets off the line of scrimmage. Six four, 214 pounds, 447. I just think he's gonna be a brilliant X.
- [81:18]
Mensch
Like there's no first round buzz about him. You're not hearing any first round buzz.
- [81:21]
Todd McShay
I have. I have not. I have not. Interesting to me solidly. Second. I know. We'll see how it plays out. I agree with you on that. I don't always agree with you, but I agree with you on that. Let's see the. The next tier. If we have a it built. Trey Harris, you talked about mention. I agree with you. I think he. He's going to outperform where he gets drafted. We talked about Jalen Lane, Jack Besh. I think we covered a lot. I know we covered a lot of him. Just respect his game.
- [81:48]
Mensch
I gotta say, man. I went back and when I finalized his report, I watched. I'd watched him a little bit earlier in the year. I'd seen him at the Senior bowl and then I finally got down, sat down and watched all his tape. I love his tape. I mean, he is. It's a gr. It's a. It's a. You know, it's a sad story, but it's amazing what he's done since he lost his brother in that terrorist attack in New Orleans. But his tape is really good. I mean, it is really good. He is tough. He catches the ball well. I think he. He did not run at the combine. I want to see A time but he. And I don't think he's a burner but he runs well enough on tape, man. He.
- [82:23]
Todd McShay
That's.
- [82:23]
Mensch
He's a good player.
- [82:25]
Todd McShay
I watched Kyle. All these guys are third round range. Okay. All of these guys for me. DK was, was one of them. Okay. Kyle Williams. I just finished up his tape the other day. Sudden hand plucker, natural ball skills. I just, I like the way he plays. I'm not as high as some people. Some people are getting a little crazy. Yeah, I really, I really like him. Khalil Shakir is the guy I kind of saw in his.
- [82:52]
Mensch
Oh, I love. That's a great comp, right? That's a perfect comp.
- [82:58]
Todd McShay
Eleko Manor. I. I like him. The ball skills are a hang up for me. You know we joked around a little bit about it, but I think whether it's jugs machine.
- [83:11]
Mensch
He's got big hands, man. He's got 10 inch hands.
- [83:14]
Todd McShay
Really struggles to adjust the foot the football at times. And I look, listen, I love his urgency. He's physical, he's aggressive. Like there's a lot to like and I think he could be of value if he. If his ball skills improve. Tori Horton. I actually liked him. I wrote in my report people are saying low to mid four threes. I said I see low to low four fours and he ran a four four one. I see that. Efficient, savvy routes with tempo and leverage. I think he's a better route runner than he's getting credit for. For excellent body control at six two and a half, 196 pounds. I had the injury right season ending knee injury in mid October. But he averaged 17 yards per punt return, three punt return touchdowns. I just see value in him in round three. You talked about Jalen Royals, Xavier Restrepo, man. You're telling me he's not a thicker Wes Welker? Come on.
- [84:07]
Mensch
I mean he's in that mold. He's definitely in that mold. I mean I like to use the word thick because that's what he is, man. He's a fire hydrant with athletic ability.
- [84:16]
Todd McShay
Talk about another guy.
- [84:17]
Mensch
Rugged.
- [84:18]
Todd McShay
Yeah, tough.
- [84:20]
Mensch
Rugged.
- [84:20]
Todd McShay
Rugged.
- [84:23]
Mensch
Here's what I reliable too, by the way.
- [84:25]
Todd McShay
I put on the, I put on the reel of him, you know, the key plays from this past year. First catch, like literally like jumped out of his cleats backwards. It was.
- [84:34]
Mensch
I think I know what you're talking about.
- [84:35]
Todd McShay
Target throw. Then he had another one when he was tripping getting out of his break and still went up and Plucked it. He just, he's just a. He's like a gym rat, man. You think about all the great. We just talked about Abuka at Miami. I mean at Ohio State, all the great receivers, better production. Five year player at Miami, I know it's different. He, all those other guys came out early but like capped his career. He was the first hurricane ever to post back to back thousand yard seasons.
- [85:03]
Mensch
Think about the guys that played there.
- [85:05]
Todd McShay
And then all the receivers they had this year. And Arroyo at tight end. He still had 11, 27 receiving. Finished his career as Miami's all time leader in receptions, 200 receiving yards, 28, 44 and receiving touchdowns, 21. Doesn't have great size. It's kind of like a book. Not a great size, not great speed. But he gets the absolute best out of what he has with his savvy, confident routes, has a plan, strong lower body, works through contact. Not like wiggle, but shifty, kind of like, you know what I mean? He's got a little. And so he's not like breaking like he's like, okay, creates after great vision. Number four slot receiver. Like there's a lot to like as a rookie. Maybe works in a number. Tom Brady would have had a freaking field day.
- [85:56]
Mensch
Yeah. You know why? Because you know he's going to be where he's supposed to be. Yes. And you know he's going to catch the ball regardless of the situation. Whether it's a game in Miami against the Dolphins in week four or it's the AFC championship game. This kid doesn't care. He's going to make a play. You just can trust him. He's reliable. Quarterbacks love those kind of players.
- [86:16]
Todd McShay
Last guy I want to get to, we got to get to tight ends. I'm doing it again. It's going to be a three hour podcast and I'm sorry and thank you for listening. Thank you for, for watching. It's just, it's that time of year and, and listen, we'll. We'll have nice short podcast for everybody and all the executives will be happy and it'll be 49 minutes and people want to click because it's like manageable. But it's, it's this month, 31 days NFL Draft. Appreciate you watching and listening. Stick with us here. I think fans are going to be like, who the hell is this guy? Savion Williams?
- [86:45]
Mensch
Really? You don't think he has any kind of buzz unicorn, do you?
- [86:50]
Todd McShay
Do your friends know about.
- [86:51]
Mensch
You're right.
- [86:52]
Todd McShay
No. Nationally, TCU was not watched anywhere. Jack Bash Got a lot of love at the, at the Senior bowl, understandably so, for his performance and what he had overcome. But Savion Williams, this guy is a. I remember once I talked to someone in the league.
- [87:10]
Mensch
Here we go.
- [87:11]
Todd McShay
Cordero Patterson is like the absolute perfect player comp for Savion Williams. And it's not just the size at six three, it's basically six four, 222 pounds, ran a four eight, got 32 and a half inch arms, 10 and a quarter hands. He's a freak of nature. Okay. And he, It's a lot of the same stuff. But I'll give you this backdrop. I remember Cordero Patterson came into one team in his meetings and they were asking him about, about, like, what's your plans? It's January, we're at the combine. What are your plans? You know, finishing up school. He goes, you know, where are you going to be for the draft? Are you trying to finish up this year at school? Are you working out? What are you. He's like, school? You kidding me? He's like, I didn't even get books last semester. My school, my school's the NFL. You know, like, like some of the other quotes coming out of the interviews were awesome. Well, I talked to another team in the, about Savion. They were like trying to go through some plays and stuff like that and it, and like, so what's the name of the play where. That play we've been referencing and trying to check in his recall and doing certain things and they're like, you know, you were there in the Wildcat. What, what's the play? Give us that play. They want to get players recall. What do they understand?
- [88:34]
Mensch
Right?
- [88:34]
Todd McShay
What are their responsibilities? Right? Yeah, I don't, I don't know that play. Yeah, he goes, he goes. That play is snap the ball to me and I run behind 17, I score a touchdown, right?
- [88:47]
Mensch
You get out of the way.
- [88:48]
Todd McShay
Same stuff, it's the same, same interviews, same body type, same versatility. He was a four star high school recruit, five year player, two and two year starter, tcu. Gradually his role increased. I'm telling you, man, I watch him on tape and it's an utter disaster. He's tripping, he's falling, he's not in the right place. He's dropping balls thrown right at him. His. You ready for this Mensch? Some of his drops are absolutely terrible. He had an 11.8% drop rate. That was the 13th percentile. And I wouldn't be knocking all this if there, if there wasn't A, you know, the highlight at the end of the sick. And I wrote in my notes, nothing. Because I'm starting to get from, like, nothing is easy with this guy.
- [89:41]
Mensch
Yeah. But the highlight reel is sick.
- [89:43]
Todd McShay
Oh, my gosh.
- [89:44]
Mensch
Throw him a.
- [89:45]
Todd McShay
Throw him a bubble. Throw it behind. I. Then like, so I'm watching this drop and it's like. And I'm watching him trip, getting in and out of his brakes. And then all of a sudden he, like, he. He just snaps off this quick slant route.
- [89:56]
Mensch
But he goes, yeah.
- [89:58]
Todd McShay
And the ball's behind him and he's like. Reaches out with these long 32 inch arms and it's like plucks it. Touchdown. Hand him. He's actually terrible. When you hand him the ball off. It's either just. Just wildcat him and let him go, right? Because he's got. That's the other thing with him. His vision and, like, feel for setting up is terrible. So you can't, like, Cordero could do a little bit of that and develop that over time. This guy. It's on you, man. I. If I'm the gm. If I'm the gm, I'm walking in and I'm going, hey, I don't know how you're gonna use them. You can't. You can't run routes.
- [90:38]
Mensch
Figure it out.
- [90:39]
Todd McShay
Can't run. You can't handle the ball. It's like my high school baseball coach. We're gonna be there nine hours. We're scrimmaging Matignon. You can't bring a lunch. You can't eat it on the field, you can't eat it in the bus. Figure it out. That's what I'm saying to my OC. I don't care. I just drafted him with the 50th pick, the 53rd pick. Get him the ball. Yeah, that dynamic return game. Screens, vert, whatever you got to do. He is so dynamic. So when you hear.
- [91:09]
Mensch
You think he's going that early, you think he's 53. You think he'll go that early?
- [91:12]
Todd McShay
I think he's going mid second. Wow. I've talked to teams who kind of gave me a heads up, like, could be. Could be mid second. That's why I wanted to touch on him here.
- [91:21]
Mensch
Wow.
- [91:22]
Todd McShay
Yeah. It's a. It's an absolute experience.
- [91:28]
Mensch
He's the kind of player my son will call me about and be like, dude, we need this guy in the first round. Like, we need him the first.
- [91:32]
Todd McShay
I just.
- [91:33]
Mensch
I was on YouTube. I saw the clips.
- [91:35]
Todd McShay
Nobody's really. Patriots should take him at 4.
- [91:38]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [91:38]
Todd McShay
When we get close to the draft, I, I, I foresee it. Just like you're saying. I can foresee it already. He's going to be like a star. Mr. Intrigue. All right, let's flip it over. Tight ends. We're an hour and a half into this thing. Oh, well, there's seven tight ends I want to get to Mensch. I'm gonna let you take it, but I do want to throw up our tears again. While this wide receiver class is not great at the top, you got to go back to I should have this. 1992 was it, Dan, look that up over time. I think it was 1992. I've sent that note to you guys a bunch of times. I've referenced it before. I should have it here. It doesn't matter. No one else cares but me. In the 1990s, I think it was to. You'd have to go back to get two tight ends that I think will get drafted as high as Tyler Warren and Colson Loveland get drafted. They're that good. And we'll get into their skill sets in, in a half a second here. But I do think it's worth mentioning we got fans from all 32 markets. The jets at 7 is, is where I think Tyler Warren. That's the first realistic spot where I think Warren can come off the board. Next two spots I think are very intriguing for these guys. 14 to Indianapolis, 22 to the Chargers. Okay, then there's the second tiers you're seeing here. Right. We got Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland in tier two. Those are a notch. But this, this is my description. Tier 2, typically, no matter what the draft class is, they are worthy. Doesn't mean they're go. They're worthy of a top 15 pick in any, any given draft. More importantly, these players should fit this description. They're a notch below that elite, elite class. Just a notch, but still considered immediate impact. Make impact players, difference makers and eventually they're one of your core top tier prospects or top tier players. That's what this player should be considered. And that's where we have Warren and Colson. Lovely. Okay. In round two, if you don't get one in the first, these, these are teams, I think, with their picks that could have some interest. Chicago picks at 39 and 41, and it wouldn't be for Warren or Loveland. Now we're getting into that tier four range where a lot of those other receivers are. For me, Ted McMillan, Ameka Buka, Jaden Higgins, Jalen Noel. In that range, I've got Mason Taylor, lsu, and Elijah Arroyo from Miami. That's where you look at these picks. 39, 41, Chicago, 42, Jets, 48, Miami, 50, Denver, all could be in that tight end market. So those are a bunch of teams and these are. Those are the top four tight ends. And then you flip the page over. We got one more look at Tier 5, Tier 6, and Tier 6. We've got the other two tight ends that I. That three, I'm sorry. Gunner Helm, Terence Ferguson, Oregon Helm, Texas, and Harold Fan and Bowling Green. Okay, so that's where this all. That's kind of the. The backdrop for all this. You go ahead on Tyler Warren, what stands out to you, Mitch?
- [94:48]
Mensch
Obviously the versatility, what he does with the ball in his hands, his ability to play that wildcat court quarterback. He can even throw the ball. Lefty, little southpaw throwing the ball downfield, breaks, tackles. I. A couple things that you're going to want to look into the McShay report, if you haven't got any yet. The comp that McShay gives Warren I think is going to turn some heads and I don't hate it. I'm not going to give it away here. You got to spend the four bucks to find out the comp for. For Tyler Warren.
- [95:13]
Todd McShay
But I also.
- [95:14]
Mensch
One of the things you do mention in the report that I like is that you gave him a 2 above average for separation. I see it the same way. I think there's a. There's a tendency to compare him and Loveland. Loveland, I think is.
- [95:25]
Todd McShay
I don't.
- [95:25]
Mensch
I didn't see your grade. I'm assuming you gave him a one for separation because he's an elite route runner for a tight end and Warren's not on that level. He's still very good. Warren knows how to get open, man. He has a good feel for routes. He gets in and out of breaks. He's not quite as explosive. I get all one is.
- [95:40]
Todd McShay
One is elite five is marginal. That's the range.
- [95:43]
Mensch
Right.
- [95:43]
Todd McShay
So when we talk about one, I honestly for Warren was like a 1.5.
- [95:47]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [95:48]
Todd McShay
Because he's better than two.
- [95:49]
Mensch
I agree with you.
- [95:49]
Todd McShay
But his is the late separation stuff. Boxing out body. Good luck.
- [95:53]
Mensch
They do it in different ways.
- [95:55]
Todd McShay
Very different. Loveland is. Is like literally at the elite level in terms of separating with your feet for a tight end.
- [96:03]
Mensch
And he's just fun to watch when he has the ball in his hands, like I mentioned, turns into a running back, wants to run people over, aggressive Determined.
- [96:12]
Todd McShay
This is Warren.
- [96:13]
Mensch
Yes, Warren. Yeah. He's gonna break some tackles. I love that part of his game.
- [96:19]
Todd McShay
I just think he's an unbelievably coordinated, gifted, Natural athlete for six, five and a half, 256 pounds.
- [96:29]
Mensch
Yeah. That frame, man, I think it kind.
- [96:31]
Todd McShay
Of just comes down to that. You know what I mean?
- [96:34]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [96:35]
Todd McShay
He doesn't separate.
- [96:36]
Mensch
Don't overcomplicate it, man.
- [96:38]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [96:38]
Mensch
Yeah, right.
- [96:40]
Todd McShay
And he likes to play ball, knows.
- [96:42]
Mensch
How to play ball, man.
- [96:44]
Todd McShay
And he's. He's just. He's gonna either run over you or he's gonna sidestep you. And it ain't always gonna be pretty, but, like, the result is there were.
- [96:54]
Mensch
A couple times this year where guys got into his legs and I was like, he's got to go down. And somehow he would bounce off that tackle and keep going. I mean, he's. He's got some lower body flexibility for that frame, some athletic ability for that frame. It's just impressive.
- [97:07]
Todd McShay
He only had two drops that I, that, that I was interested in. I guess three is what the number, like, officially 87th percentile. But he, like, he's. He's a 90% ball skills guy.
- [97:19]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [97:20]
Todd McShay
He's not.
- [97:21]
Mensch
Offenses run through the tight end, by the way.
- [97:23]
Todd McShay
Yeah, yeah, that's. That's what I mean.
- [97:25]
Mensch
We're talking about Penn State, too. This is not a. You know, Bowling Green ran through the tight end, too, but it's a difference when it's Penn State and our guy.
- [97:33]
Todd McShay
Frank Leonard, who's a coach at Richmond, just like. And he, he shoots straight with me and, like, shoots straight with everyone, man. He does.
- [97:41]
Mensch
He's not, he's not.
- [97:42]
Todd McShay
Yeah, but he, he's. He works there on their staff and, and he's been around great tight ends his entire career in the NFL and in college football and just, he just knows the position. And I trust him implicitly when he tells me things that he doesn't need to tell me. He doesn't always tell me everything. He'll tell me what he feels comfortable telling me. And with this, it was just unloading the. The character, the football character, the work ethic, toughness. This guy's different, Todd. I promise you, I'm. Trust me on this. This guy's different. And this was. This was back when he was like, when he was a backup.
- [98:15]
Mensch
Right. I remember talking about him. Yeah.
- [98:18]
Todd McShay
And he's like. He's like, just trust me. And here we are talking about him maybe as a seventh pick in the NFL draft also. I like guys. It's not exclusive too, but I like guys that, you know, it's in their family. Like, dad played obviously, at Richmond, so I like that. But all joking aside, safety at Richmond. Sister Kelly played softball at etsu. Is Aunt Tracy. George played soccer at Delaware. Grandfather Steve Warren played football at Wake Forest. Grandmother Julia Warren played basketball at Carson Newman. Like, something about growing up in a family of athletes and competitors and it's just kind of in the blood. Okay, so I get it. There are some people out there who are like, yeah, but what's his. He's not elite speed and he's not a great blocker. And like, there you'll. ESPN is going to have some highlights. The USC game. I think he's driving someone Ben the back of the end zone or whatever. There's some highlights, but it's not consistent on tape for six, five and a half.
- [99:18]
Mensch
Yeah, there's some low lights, too.
- [99:19]
Todd McShay
There are some low lights. But. And so I. So I don't want you to think you're getting this. Like, why? Tight end, huge asset in the running. And I hear a lot of people saying that. I don't want you to get lied to. You're not getting someone who's going to significantly upgrade your running game. But I do think with commitment to improving technique and consistency. And also, you got to remember the offense was running through it.
- [99:47]
Mensch
Right. It's kind of tough to evaluate because they just didn't ask him to line up and blow the, you know, like the five, five technique off the ball.
- [99:55]
Todd McShay
And so when they ask him to do that at times in the NFL, I. I trust implicitly he will execute that plan. Colston Loveland, though, it's tough because you're almost. You're. It almost felt like I was evaluating different positions. Okay.
- [100:14]
Mensch
They're going to be used differently.
- [100:16]
Todd McShay
I'm using. I'm looking at this, this big wide receiver in Loveland who is beautiful in and out. Like, not many guys at tight end ever get in and out of breaks the way he does. Excellent catalog. Titans don't have a catalog of different ways to get off the line of scrimmage like he does.
- [100:34]
Mensch
Right.
- [100:34]
Todd McShay
Colson Loveland's got it even more impressive at the top of his stem, the shoulders, the body, the hips, the movement, the setting up dbs. It's. It's unique, man. Like when you watch tape over and over again and all these guys are running drags and crossers and settling in zones, and then you pop in the tape of Loveland and he's like running NFL routes It's really impressive to watch, and it stands out. He was 93rd percentile in separation percentage and, like, all I needed. I didn't even need that, but it was like, yep, stamp. Stamp that in hand. Eye coordination is excellent. Only two drop passes this past year. Not. He's not gonna body out guys and get those big physical catches like some of these other guys, but he's gonna catch just about everything in his area. And he's pretty good on contestants. Not as good as some of the other guys. Very efficient after the catch gets up the field. His blocking, though, is downright poor.
- [101:34]
Mensch
No bueno.
- [101:36]
Todd McShay
It's not good. So. So let's just make sure that we understand that, you know, who else is. Who else's blocking was downright poor coming out of college? Sam Laporta. Yeah, this guy's a taller Sam Laporta.
- [101:52]
Mensch
That's. I mean, I'll take that.
- [101:54]
Todd McShay
I'm not. Shades of is the new term everyone's using. Whatever you want to call it. No, nothing's perfect. Is a cop. Except Cordero Patterson and Savion Williams, but that's what I think he is.
- [102:07]
Mensch
Yep.
- [102:08]
Todd McShay
And again, is it Indy at 14? Is it the Chargers at 22? Is it a team that maybe doesn't have this pressing need we're looking at right now is like, you know what? He's too damn good. Our grades too high.
- [102:18]
Mensch
Yeah, the second tight end we're talking about being this good, but.
- [102:21]
Todd McShay
Yeah, the second tight end. And. And Dan came through again, as he always does. I. I mentioned. I guessed correctly. 1992 is the last time that happened. Two tight ends in the top 15. Listen, it's team knees and all that. I'll be surprised if this isn't the first time since. And that was Derrick Brown and Johnny Mitchell, Giants and Jets, respectively. Okay, right now let's get to the other guys real quick.
- [102:47]
Mensch
Okay. I finally did it on my board. I moved to Royo ahead of Taylor. Ah.
- [102:56]
Todd McShay
I didn't have the.
- [102:57]
Mensch
I can't believe I beat you to the bunch.
- [102:59]
Todd McShay
I cannot believe that I was gonna do it. Throw up those rankings again for the tight ends or the tiers, whatever you want. I bumped them up and they've the same grade.
- [103:09]
Mensch
By the way, I love Mason Taylor. This is not about Mason Taylor. This is about Elijah Arroyo.
- [103:17]
Todd McShay
All right, well, compare the two. Then you go.
- [103:20]
Mensch
I think it's, you know, to make it simple. I think Mason Taylor is awesome. I just think that Elijah Royo is awesomer. I think he's a little more explosive. I think he's a little bit more dangerous in the passing game. I think Taylor might be a little bit better blocker, but a rodeo's got some dog in a man. He's got to get stronger, but he's. He's not afraid to mix it up. I think he made. Did you talk about that on X, by the way? About a royal?
- [103:43]
Todd McShay
I did a whole clip reel on it.
- [103:44]
Mensch
I mean, I watch it on tape. He's getting in guys faces.
- [103:47]
Todd McShay
He's got some absolute prick to him.
- [103:50]
Mensch
He does.
- [103:50]
Todd McShay
He's got to.
- [103:51]
Mensch
Now listen, he's got to get stronger. He's got to get a little better. Technique wise, he's not there. But in terms of, you know, I think Greg Olson talked about tight ends like this. Are they willing to stick their face in the fan? Are they willing to work at it? That's a tight end you can work with. And Arroyo's absolutely got that in him.
- [104:07]
Todd McShay
You know what I like about him? I watch him on tape. I think he's 6, 4, 2. 4 2, right?
- [104:14]
Mensch
Yep.
- [104:15]
Todd McShay
He's 6, 5 and change. 250, 33 inch arms, big 10 inch hands. When I watch the two, I'm like, Mason Taylor's the bigger dude, right? And Mason Taylor carries the weight better. I mean, Mason, sorry. Mason Taylor carries his weight very well, right? They're literally the exact same height, 651. They're one pound off taste. Taylor's one. He drank an extra glass of water before his combine. Weigh in longer arms. Arroyo, same handspan, 10 inches. The difference is with Mason Taylor, I know exactly what I'm getting. I know he's been in football his entire life. I know that he will. He's. He knows what the little things are to do. I know there's been consistency in production and quite honestly, I think that's the biggest, biggest thing between the two. He's a. Mason Taylor's smooth, good initial acceleration off the line. Does a great job. Like the little things, right? The play action, fakes, knows how, like the angles, how to tempo his routes. Just very, very savvy. Excels at getting DBs on his hips. All those little things that add up. All right. Also great on scramble rules. It's like. Yeah, I've got written down here. Minute 49, fourth quarter, Ole Miss, broken play, comes back, long reception. Huge play in that game.
- [105:45]
Mensch
Right.
- [105:48]
Todd McShay
But the accelerations out of break, not elite. You know, like average depth of target. That was the biggest thing with him I was trying. I kept looking for more like downfield stuff.
- [105:59]
Mensch
Yeah, I think he can run, but they didn't use him that way.
- [106:04]
Todd McShay
His separate this. I thought this was interesting, and it really lined up with what I saw on tape. Separation rate is 96 percentile. Average depth of target, target 12 percentile. Just. You want to see more, but not. That's not his fault. Only four drops his last two seasons. Reliable, all that stuff. Blocking's pretty good, but honest to God. And maybe because I expected less with Arroyo, but no, it's not. It's not. I need a block, and I need someone to knock someone's clock right off. Yeah, I'm going to Arroyo. And that's when I started changing my minds because I'm looking at these two. And again, I've got identical grades because I just. I've. I've seen more. It was more consistent. And the. Honest to God, it's because of the injury. It's because of the injury. Arroyo's a more explosive prospect. Arroyo's got a little bit more juice as a blocker, and Arroyo's got the potential to be more devastating as a pass catcher. Arroyo's got a chance to be a. Like one of those guys that is a matchup nightmare.
- [107:14]
Mensch
Where do you have him on your board right now?
- [107:15]
Todd McShay
You know who my comp is?
- [107:17]
Mensch
Who?
- [107:19]
Todd McShay
I think Arroyo could be a George Kittle.
- [107:23]
Mensch
Wow. Okay, I see it.
- [107:30]
Todd McShay
No, he's somewhere like the. No Noah Fant athleticism, all that stuff. But I think this guy, if he stays healthy and can be what I think he. He can become, I think he could be a George Kittle in the league. I just can't trust it right now because the. The health, the durability stuff, right? What were you. Ness.
- [107:48]
Mensch
Where do you have them on your board overall? Where do you have a row, you and Taylor? Do you know what number?
- [107:52]
Todd McShay
I don't. I've been jumbled because I've been updating.
- [107:55]
Mensch
For me, I got a row. You had 40. I got Taylor 48. Give me either one of them, man.
- [108:00]
Todd McShay
I think either 1 of 42. And like last time I actually did the overall, it's somewhere in that same range. I'm thinking about Chicago. Chicago 39, 41, Jets 42. That could be where these two guys just go right off the board and play right away. All right, let's. Let's rip through these guys because it's just hard to do all this work on these. On these players in this tape. Gunner Helm, he ran that atrocious 40 we laughed about it. Looked like he got shot like a horse. That Got shot or broke its hoof and. But then it come. It turns out we haven't talked about this since on the show.
- [108:34]
Mensch
Oh, I thought we did. Do we not?
- [108:36]
Todd McShay
Maybe not maybe the picture's gross. Yeah, he. He sprained his ankle, but this son of a gun still did all of his workout.
- [108:45]
Mensch
Yeah. Ran a 484 on a bum.
- [108:47]
Todd McShay
Absolutely stupid. Absolutely stupid. I love it. But I. But I absolutely love it. Yes.
- [108:53]
Mensch
Yeah. Didn't say a thing, by the way.
- [108:55]
Todd McShay
You would have known when the agent has to call, like, someone and scream like, stop, Don't.
- [109:02]
Mensch
Right.
- [109:02]
Todd McShay
Because we saw it and we were like, why isn't anyone talking about it? But he sprained his ankle coming out and he's just limped back to the. The starting gate and ran his 40. It wasn't very good. I don't even have it here. He'll run his 40 when he's healthier at the pro day for Texas.
- [109:14]
Mensch
Yeah, he run a 44 in a bum foot. That's not bad, man.
- [109:18]
Todd McShay
That's what I'm saying. But. But we compared that and we were like, well, Fannon ran a 471 and Ferguson from Oregon ran a 4, 6, 3. And yeah, on a bum foot, it's not bad. But you. I'm going to need him to be a little bit faster.
- [109:30]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [109:32]
Todd McShay
But here's the thing with him. Suddenness in all of his movement, movements. Gets off the line of scrimmage, drops his weight pretty quickly. Like, he gets good enough separation short to intermediate, and that's all I need. He times up his releases. He sells his fakes and play action. Like, natural catching the ball over his head. That touchdown catch, back of the end zone as an example against Michigan, only at two drops in 20, 24. I like him a lot after the catch, though.
- [110:01]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [110:01]
Todd McShay
If you ask me, like, why do you like him so much? I just like him a lot after he transitions extremely quickly. So natural catching already has a plan. Some guys you watch on tape, the ball's in the air and you can literally see their lower body start to move.
- [110:17]
Mensch
They've got the phone.
- [110:18]
Todd McShay
They're going to catch it. They're not going to do B before A, but you can literally see him setting up the defender with like a, like outside in that one cut lean.
- [110:28]
Mensch
You don't see that in tight ends as much as receivers, man.
- [110:30]
Todd McShay
No, exactly.
- [110:31]
Mensch
I also thought his catch in overtime against Arizona State, the one where he was kind of like, yours had to step up. It was kind of a weird angle. I thought that was one of the better catches of the year, man. Just, it looks simple but he catches it in stride. It's a big moment in that game. I thought that was an impressive play. He was a little, I will say this, he was a little inconsistent with the ball skills down the stretch. I thought for most of the year he was reliable.
- [110:53]
Todd McShay
Yeah, he did have that.
- [110:54]
Mensch
And then out of nowhere he just had a couple of these drops where I was like, like, man, that's not you, that's not your identity. You've caught everything all year. And it just felt like there's a couple times he lost his focus. But overall I liked his ball skills a lot.
- [111:06]
Todd McShay
Here's the thing with him and, and by the way, he's going to get knocked, knocked back and fail to finish sometimes. But you know what I like about him? He's here for the fight.
- [111:14]
Mensch
Yeah, he'll battle.
- [111:16]
Todd McShay
He's here for the fight. And that's honestly like after watching all these tight ends and watching some really high rated guys and the ineffectiveness in a lot of situations and watching the mid level guys like I, I came back to. Arroyo is here for the fight.
- [111:29]
Mensch
Yeah, he's got to bring the fight to you, man.
- [111:32]
Todd McShay
He's not only here, Arroyo's gonna bring it to you. He's looking for some trouble and I love that. Yeah, Helm is here for the fight. Like he's gonna, he's gonna lay it out there. How about Jake Ferguson for Gunner Helm? Numbers, numbers are underwhelming. You can't put a thing. I loved. I, I don't know if you remember Jake Ferguson. I thought it was just absolute travesty where he got drafted.
- [112:00]
Mensch
I love how you put these things, man.
- [112:04]
Todd McShay
But, but I went in my report and I'm like, I, I can remember writing these same things and thinking these same things about somebody and it was like Jake Ferguson. Then I went and he checked in at 6047. Gunner Helm was six five, checked it at two 250. Helm was 241. So a little bit of difference there. 477 got drafted too late the fourth round. Okay.
- [112:28]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [112:29]
Todd McShay
And I'm, I'm guessing Gunner, when he runs his 40 healthy, whatever that is, he's going to run her about a four seven, seven, you know what I mean? So I don't know. I kind of like that comp. Ferguson. I like Ferguson. I like Ferguson. The 463 was encouraging. All the little things. He does enough speed to threaten.
- [112:56]
Mensch
He runs well, man.
- [112:58]
Todd McShay
His 15 yes. His 156 tied for the second fastest. Although you know, Warren, Loveland, Arroyo and Taylor didn't run, but you can see the acceleration up the field. One cut and go. I think he's just going to be a really good player. I like him. In the third round I actually have.
- [113:15]
Mensch
Him ahead of him. But I like them both. They're. They're both in that bucket.
- [113:20]
Todd McShay
And then Fanon comes in at last for me of these tight ends that we're talking about in the first three rounds. But it's still like Bowling Green. Three year, three year player, two year starter. Career FBS tight end receiving ranks. You ready? Career. Yeah, fbs. He's at Bowling Green State.
- [113:39]
Mensch
He's a max legend, man.
- [113:41]
Todd McShay
Six, three and a quarter, 241. He's just a bigger wide receiver but I really like, I developed a like for him on tape. Number 7 in career receiving yards by a tight end. All time. 20, almost 2400 receiving yards. Number 10 all time career receptions by a tight end. 180. Number 4 receiving yards per game. 6. 66.6. Number 5 in career all purpose yards by a tight end. 2,555. Not as sudden and fluent as movements like, as like Loveland. There's a noticeable difference on tape. So that like that stood out to me. But still very good with his leverage and stems and all the little things. He just understands the passing game.
- [114:27]
Mensch
Yeah, he's a Yak king too, man. He get, get in the ball. He's gonna break tackles, he's gonna hit the seam. He, he knows what to do once he has the ball in his hands and he's fearless down the seam. The other thing, by the way, you know, it's bowling to your point.
- [114:41]
Todd McShay
Let all players that were invited to the combine and miss tackles, force on reception all plays. That, that was two more than Luther Burden who we talked about is, has a lot the comp with, with Debo Samuel.
- [114:55]
Mensch
Yeah, the Yak is impressive with this kid.
- [114:57]
Todd McShay
What were you gonna say? I cut you off. Sorry.
- [114:59]
Mensch
No, he's, he's fearless down the seam. The other thing just, you know, you think Bowling Green, he had monster games against Penn State and Texas A and M last year. I mean he put up big numbers and those teams had to know. I mean you think about those Penn State safeties and you'd think they'd be able to slow down a tight end from Bowling Green. He had some big numbers in those games.
- [115:18]
Todd McShay
Man, I went Dalton Kincaid Bills.
- [115:22]
Mensch
Oh, that is high praise. I, I had Kincaid a lot higher because I just thought he was. Yeah.
- [115:31]
Todd McShay
Shades of bro. Shades of. I appreciate it if you hung for this whole thing.
- [115:36]
Mensch
Good for you.
- [115:38]
Todd McShay
Good for you. It's lengthy.
- [115:41]
Mensch
Thank you.
- [115:42]
Todd McShay
Sorry. Not sorry, but thank you. Thursday's gonna be fun. Join us. Appreciate you watching, listening. We truly do. It would be really weird if mentioned I were just doing this with headsets on, talking to one another, but the fact that some people are hanging around for an hour and 54 minutes, we truly thank you and I hope hope you picked up a few things and had a laugh here and two laugh or two here or there. Thursday's gonna be a lot of fun quarterbacks today.
- [116:12]
Mensch
It's your big day.
- [116:14]
Todd McShay
We'll do offensive lineman. I push them off in the schedule. They're very oh, I know best or less. But but we'll do quarterbacks and we got a lot of buzzy stuff that we want to get into. Where are we in top picks? What are we hearing? But until then, thank you very much. We'll we'll see you in a few days. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler or visit RG help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New.