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The McShay Show
The Rough Draft, Week 7: Scouting Notes and NFL Comps for Fernando Mendoza, Arvell Reese, and More. Plus, Talking Oklahoma-Texas and 'College GameDay' Atmospheres With Chris Fowler.
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- [00:00]
A
This is a special one. Today we unveil our new Thursday staple, Rough Draft. Every NFL star starts somewhere, and usually it's on a Saturday. Mention I've devoted two and a half decades to studying the tape, cultivating the relationships, analyzing the data, grading the prospects, trying to see what's coming before everyone else in this space. And we stand comfortably on on our work. Rough Draft isn't about final grades or mock drafts. It's about first impressions, the raw notes, the truth that lives on the film before the media. And combine hype starts each week. Mention I will break down the names you need to know who's climbing, who's slipping, and who might be writing their own story before the draft season even hits. Scouting the next class before the noise. Because every NFL draft begins as a rough draft. And without further ado, just 196 days until the NFL draft. Minch, you good?
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B
I'm good, man.
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A
One time Tucker. This episode is presented by Duluth Trading Co. Ready to Give rival tailgates the foam finger. Duluth Trading Co. Crafts hall of fame game day gear to help you grill hotter, cheer louder and tailgate longer. Bibs loaded with pockets, gusseted pants so you can crouch without snuffing out your coals and free swinging shirts tailor made for cornhole tossing. Stay comfortable from preseason to playoffs in the toughest tailgate attire around. Only at Duluth Trading Company.
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B
He.
- [01:56]
A
How about that for an open for you?
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B
We're excited.
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A
Yeah, we put a lot of time into this. And listen, there are other draft shows out there. Watch them if you want. Like I said, we stand on our work and we've been doing a, you know, preview show and picks and this and that. Let's get to what we do. This episode is brought to you by Fox one Fox. Fox one is now live stream all your Fox favorites together in one place from major league baseball postseason to NFL on Fox to big noon Saturdays with Fox one. You get it all live. Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. Fox one streaming now. You know, we have Saturday night, which we love that show. We've, that's our kind of our, our flagship show, the live reaction show. We break into the primetime games Monday. We do the 10 tape truths and we feel great about that where we're studying tape. Not just a reaction to what we see on tv but also like now we've got Sunday to study the tape and then we share what we found on Monday. We're looking for a Thursday show that's a staple. This is the first one. I can already tell this is this is going to be it. Moving forward, it's Rough Draft where we're going to have a draft show, but we're going to promise every single week when we get into the players and some of the breakdowns and guys who are rising, slipping, guys who are about to pop, we're going to make sure that it includes guys that are playing this Saturday. So it gives you something to look forward to as you prepare for an awesome slate on Saturday. So with that as the backdrop, this version of Rough Draft, our first ever, I just figured let's get some, let's get six names out there. Guys we've been watching on tape. We're already into October. Guys who are rising, guys who are making noise. You come into a year and you We've got the national list, we've got the list. We do our top 150 in the but there's always guys that are moving into it. Cam Ward last last year, perfect example. Fifth round grade decides to come back to school because the advisory committee tells them it's not first, it's not second, go back to school and then becomes the number one overall pick. Jaden Daniels the year before, second year at lsu. So every year there are guys that are making moves in their final year in college football. And so today I want to start that conversation for our audience that's going to be the most informed draft audience out there. So men, I throw to you this very first rough draft. Which player do you want to start? Spotlight what you've seen on tape and why people should start getting excited and what they should expect to see on Saturday.
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B
No surprises here. If you give me a chance to talk about them, I want to talk about him. And that's South Carolina quarterback Lenora Sellers. 745 kick SCC Network at at LSU Night Game in Baton Rouge, sharing the field with Garrett Nussmeier. Big stage. Big stage. Also remember last year sellers had two touchdowns, including a 75 yarder when he had to leave the LSU game. They were up eight, South Carolina eight at the time. And LSU came back to win that game. South Carolina kicking themselves. That might have been the difference with them going to playoffs. Let's get into the traits a little bit because you know you're going to first start with the frame. He's 240 pounds. He's listed at six three. McShade will tell you that he's five nine based on what he saw at the man.
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A
I Will not.
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B
Okay, but he's a, he's a big kid, thick lower body.
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A
Yes.
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B
And you see that in his ability to break tackles, extend plays. Like he's just a powerful runner. I love that aspect of his game. I think what's underrated is this kid's getting better from within the pocket. You're seeing some of these touch throws he's making. His percentage, his completion percentage is up a little bit more. Offensive line hasn't been great. The pass protection hasn't been great. You look at a game like last week against Kentucky and I think he only had 14 passing attempts, but super efficient, 11 completions. He's getting better as a passer. Now where he gets into trouble is when he's trying to make too much happen. That's, you know, you gotta, that's the double edged to this sword. Right. The flip side of it is when you got to play a guy that can expend plays like he does, sometimes he tries to make too much happen, holds onto the ball too long. You know, I think about that sack in the opener against Virginia Tech in the end zone. You know, he'll force things for some throws when he gets like that. But to me, Lenore Sellers is still, is still the top quarterback prospect in this draft despite everything that's gone around him. I love Oregon's Dante Moore if, if they're 1 2, I'm fine with that. But I have Sellers slightly ahead because Sellers does things as a runner that Moore can't do. And I'm sticking by it. McShay, until we get an official measurement. If he's shorter, I'll go Jaylen Herz. But right now I still think this kid's ceiling, ceiling, ceiling is Josh Allen.
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A
Jeez, it's. I mean, yeah, that's.
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B
You don't know what to do.
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A
It's borderline outrageous. This is a big test because that LSU defense is significantly better that LSU defense with. With Blake Baker as a coordinator, with Harold Perkins with some of the corners that they brought in, some of the, the defensive front guys that they brought in the transfer portal. Despite an offense that sputtering with a quarterback and Garrett Nussmeier who may be dealing with some injury, which would explain some of the, you know, the lack of juice on the ball, this defense has had to hang in there and keep games close. And they've done for the, for the majority, not all moments. For the majority, they've done an awesome job. Now they go up against Sellers, a mobile quarterback, and so like they've had some Trouble with that in the past I'm this we've got not we got Nussmeier versus Sellers on Saturday. In this game you're talking we've got Arch versus Is it Matier in the Red river game. We've got, we, we've got. We'll maybe get to Fernando Mendoza and Dante Moore in a little bit. But like that, that could like some people are talking about mendoza maybe as QB1. I'm not there yet but I'm just saying like so to have all these quarterback battles that we have, it's, it just lines us up for a, for a special day on Saturday. I want to shift it over to the defensive side with my first hold on really quickly.
- [08:14]
B
I just want to end this because you did that test is that's one of many. The next four games for Sellers in South Carolina are Oklahoma, Alabama, Ole Miss and Texas A and M. Bright stage on Saturday night. But this kid's gonna, One of the things I'm gonna love about Sellers when we get in is it's gonna be a clean eval because you're not worried about level of competition. You're not worried about big moments. We're gonna have a good feel for how good this kid really is.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And I, I, I hope you know we saw Caleb Williams get into a lot of bad habits. Right. Having to carry that USC team a few years back. I hope it's not the case for Sellers, but you can see in these games against those defenses, you can see a path where you start to feel like you're a one man show because let's be honest, like there's not enough around him, especially starting with protection up front. There's not enough depth at the wide receiver. There's not enough run game. The defense is so like that. Pressure is on Sellers. How does he manage that? Still play smart, efficient quarterback while also utilizing the special tools that he's been gifted to try to keep them in games and competitive. So that's going to be an awesome run of games to watch. Sellers and certainly and here's the other. I always want to mention it with Sellers and with some of these Dante Moore and Oregon, as talented as they are and as high as they probably will go in the draft, I'd like to see 2027 for the draft class rather than 2026 because I think game experience, learning from some mistakes and continuing to develop in college is the route that, that has always been the best path. But it's, we've, we've seen more examples of it recently with guys coming into the league with a lot of game experience and what's that, what that has meant to them early in their careers. All right, shifting over, my first guy up, Arvel Reese, I know he's been like, he's the, he's the social media darling. Everyone's talking about him. So this isn't like breaking news or anything like that, but it's our very first rough, rough draft episode of the McShay Show. And I just, I couldn't start this thing without putting Arvell Reese in there. He has been an absolute epiphany. And by that, I mean we knew he was talented. All the recruiting services and talking to people at Ohio State. But when Cody Simon leaves and goes to the NFL, the Arizona Cardinals, there was the question of, okay, it's his time. What are we going to see from this superstar athlete? He didn't make the. I was surprised. A lot of people going back and looking surprised. He didn't make Bruce Feldman's freaks list, but certainly warranted.
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C
He.
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A
The guy is 6 foot 4, 243 pounds. I don't know what he runs in a 40 or what he deadlifts or any of that. What I do know is he plays. You can play ball, he plays fast and he strikes hard. Okay, he's got five games, 29 tackles, three tackles for loss, three sacks, two pass breakups, and five quarterback hurries. Sometimes when I'm watching him, I'm like, is he from this planet? Like, the way that he. Did he read that that quickly? Did he slip that block? Was he in 15 yards of space with Demon Williams, the unbelievable athletic quarterback for Washington, and just bring him down without, like, it being a problem with his momentum shifting towards the sideline and Williams making a cutback and he just stops on a dime and brings him down, lassos him. That was the first play of the second quarter, if anyone wants to go back and watch it versus Washington. So I've got a lot of plays in my notes here. I, I, I. He's not perfect yet. You can see some of the game and experience in some of the lack of eye discipline and coverage sometimes gets a little bit overzealous at times. Fitting, you know, just striking through gaps. Although that's kind of what he's asked to do in that defense. What's interesting to me is with that frame, 64, 243 pounds, with that speed, that athleticism, the length, all those things this past Minnesota game last week, and I want to see, does it, does it trend towards this is it just a specific matchup thing for certain, certain opponents. But they used him a lot more Steve as an edge rusher. So you add that to his bag and I want to go back right, Jay, these are the off ball linebackers that were drafted in the first round. There's not many of them and a couple of them also had edge component, major edge components to them that allowed them. Exactly. So that's why I bring up this edge stuff against Minnesota Will we see. And they're not doing it to improve his draft stock.
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B
Right.
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A
They're doing it because it's. He, he's a special talent. You can utilize him in different ways. But Javon Walker was the 15th overall pick in this past draft. This year's draft edge hybrid, right. Jack Campbell, true off the ball linebacker. You have to go back to 2023. There was one taken last year. I think it was one in the first part. Jack Campbell was the only off the ball linebacker. He went in 2023. You see the graphic here if you're watching on YouTube or on Spotify and we appreciate all of you that are. He was the 18th overall pick. Quay Walker, off the ball linebacker, 2020, second overall pick in 2022. Also Devin Lloyd, who by the way, Devin Lloyd would be my NFL comp. Oh yes. And we'll get to that in a second then. Micah Parsons was the 12th overall pick. None of those guys were in the top 10. Josh Isaiah Simmons, who by I think is out of ball now got drafted number eight overall in 2020 as an off the ball linebacker. The Cardinals drafted him. Then he got, he, he went, he played for the packers for a little while and just was released at. It just wasn't. He wasn't up. He wasn't playing to the level. And so he. I don't even think he's on an NFL roster right now. My point is guys don't go in the top 10. It's rare you go back to two. That's five years of drafts without a off ball linebacker going the top 10. I think this guy could be, could break the norm. I think he's that talented.
- [14:34]
B
I agree. Well, I can't wait to see more. I mean for a guy who really wasn't on the radar coming a year, what a, what an astronomical rise for him. And how to speak, this speaks to Ohio State's talent level, right? How, how is this guy not been on the field that much yet? It's crazy to me.
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A
Well, quick side note, 92 and 98 are absolute dogs on that Defensive front.
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B
We got to keep it moving.
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A
I know Kaden Curry and Kaden and McDonald 92 and 98 are awesome. Sunny Styles has been kind of overlooked and all that we've got, but he's actually playing really well and. And don't like Ohio State pod.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And by the way, they got a pretty good safety in Caleb Towns, who's also, like, kind of overshadowed by all this. He's playing at an awesome level as I went back and watched the tape. So, like, go on, take it. Next. Next up, I'm going to get under.
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B
Your skin with this one, I think. And I. And I. I'm here for it.
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A
Good.
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B
Indiana quarterback Fernando Mendoza, big. Another big stage. Another great quarterback tool. He's going to Oregon. He's got the 330 game on CBS against Dante Moore, who some people think is quarterback one right now. And I think is definitely in the.
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A
I should have mentioned, by the way, Ohio State plays, plays, plays Illinois at Illinois this week. I should have mentioned that. And it's a noon game. It's the biggest. It's the big noon kick on Fox. Okay. And by the way, my FanDuel pick of the week, my midweek pick of the week is Ohio is Ohio State -14 and a half. I think they're going to, like. I think this team is at a different level, and I think everyone's kind of gripping to the fact that they lost eight guys on defense and all this talent. They're starting quarterback. This team is. I would argue this defense is better than a year ago. And I'm shocked that I'm saying that after watching all that tape. Who's your pick of the week for FanDuel?
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B
I got Oregon covering against Indiana. I don't have the.
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A
The.
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B
The spreader odds in front of me. I got Oregon covering. It's Indiana. It's somewhere.
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C
Yeah.
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A
All right, well, that transitions right back to where you were going. Sorry.
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C
Correct.
- [16:34]
B
So, Fernando Mendoza, let's start off with the good. He's a great fit for that scheme. He's outstanding at the RPO because of his release through the way he reads. He makes great reads, has a quick release. He's accurate leading guys to yards after the catch. Love him in the RPO game when he is in rhythm, some of his downfield touch is like. It's Chef's Kiss, man. It is perfect. His timing and touch, when he drops back, hits that back foot and gets the ball out. There were several outbreaking routes to the left that he threw. I was like, man, that is perfection. And the Indiana offensive line is playing pretty well for him. But if you think this kid might be quarterback one, I'm glad you watched the Illinois game. It's awesome that you saw Illinois and maybe Indiana State. That's great. That's great because that's, that's the only thing I can say to you on that. And it's not that I don't like Mendoza. Here's what I have on Mendoza. Day two quarterback. I think Jared Goff is the absolute ceiling. And if he turns into Jared Goff, that's a pretty damn good pick. Yeah, I think that's what he is. But I'll tell you right now, if you get him off his first read, whoa, whoa. He starts, it's, it gets, it gets bad. It's not that he can't get there in terms of processing. It's just the accuracy starts to suffer tremendously. We love that he completed 91.3% of his passes against Illinois. That's great. Against Old Dominion in the opener, 58.1. Oh, well, maybe we're just a little concerned he's getting his feet wet. Well, against Iowa last week when you said Iowa was going to throw some things at him that would make him do what he's uncomfortable doing. 56.5% with a pretty bad pick in the. Late in the game. I like Fernando Mendoza. He's not, he's a good runner. He's not a great runner. He has got to improve his ability to, to get to that second read and then deliver the ball as accurately as he does when he's able to do it in rhythm. I don't, right now, I don't see a first round quarterback, let alone quarterback one.
- [18:32]
A
I purposely. I'm staying. Not staying. I'm, I'm letting you roll with the quarterbacks today because as, as promised and a lot of people have been asking, when are you going to re rack the quarterbacks? It's next week on the McShay Report and we'll do some of it on the show on Rough draft next week. I'm, I'm going into the lab. I'm going to study because we have all these great matchups this weekend. I didn't want to release my updated quarterback rankings now when we got all these big games coming up, it just didn't make sense. So next week we will dive into all that. I will give you my rebuttal or agreement on Mendoza. I don't think we're super far off, but, but check out the McShay report. We've it just dropped today. We got another one. It's going to we're breaking down. We're there's more in depth. There's there's GIFs and videos and clips to back up some of the things I'm seeing on tape. And it's a wide array of things including some NFL draft guys you need to know. Also dove into Michael Hawkins Jr. The quarterback from Oklahoma. If we do see him, and I assume we will for for OU in the Red river what you can expect to see in that one. So McShay report. Google it. Please get involved. And we've got obviously Sunday mornings. We're coming out now with a review of what we saw from from all the Saturday game the McShay show is brought to you by FanDuel. This college football season is delivering weekly showdowns you don't want to miss. And right now, all customers on FanDuel can score a profit boost for this week's big matchup on campus between Texas and Oklahoma. And the best part? You get paid instantly when you win. Use your boost on bets like spreads over unders, team props and so much more. Don't wait. Visit FanDuel.com McShay to download the app and boost. Your next bet on this week's marquee game must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Co. Ready to give rival tailgates the foam finger? Duluth Trading Co. Crafts hall of Fame game day gear to help you grill hotter, cheer louder and tailgate longer. Trust me, like I'm a scene at the grill, I know what this is all about. They've got bibs loaded with pockets, gusseted pants so you can crouch without snuffing out your coals and free swinging shirts and tailor made for beanbag tossing or some like to call it cornhole. Stay comfortable from preseason to playoffs in the toughest tailgate attire around. Only at Duth Trading Company. All right, next up on my list, Cashes Howell, number nine, edge rusher, Texas A&M. Let me give you a quick history on this guy.
- [21:54]
B
Okay?
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A
Cashes Howell really was is he was graded by the, the, you know, in the off season by the NFL scouting services, if you will and, and was kind of given a mid round grade, projected, kind of has a chance to rise. That's exactly what he's done. And, and when you watch like he was part of that Covid recruiting class, right? Couldn't go on visits, all those sorts of things. Lands at Bowling Green, Bowling Green State. So he's at Bowling Green, had a breakout year in 2023 with nine and a half sacks. The then he transfers to A and M, A and M in 2024 and you're like, well why, why didn't he like if he's that talented Todd, why didn't he break out? I'll give you two reasons. Shemar Stewart and Nick Scorton, right? Shamar Stewart drafted, you know, b middle of the first round and, and Scorton was the 51st overall pick. I believe so. So he's behind those two guys who are really talented players obviously by where they were drafted. But the production, the sack production wasn't there. Well, he comes in this year, takes over as a starter. Named SEC defensive player of the week twice for multiple. For having the multiple. Three sack games. Utah State and Mississippi State respectively. Leads the nation with seven sacks, four in the last two games. Auburn, Mississippi State as a pass rusher. Cassius Howell is an attack dog. I want you to think of every movie or show you've ever watched where someone climbs over the fence and there are these like rabid dogs chasing down someone who's trying to break into the property. That's what Howell is. He's undersized. He's six' two, he's 249. Those are verified by scouting services in the off season that's is 6021,249 estimated 475 speed. I don't buy that quick first step. But the thing with him is he's unbelievably quick with his feet, but also with his hands. He's one of those guys who's always advancing because it's like, you know, his, his dip and it's a dip and rip and, or dip and slap move that he has and the bend like this around the edge and everything's moving. He's cutting at you. I, I love watching him on tape. He gets Wegman's arm in addition to the 3 sec. He gets Wegman's arm as a wide rusher from the behind. He circles around, cuts the cuts a sharp edge and, and Breaks up the past before it even comes out of Wegman's hand last week. So I don't know, I just. He's a guy that. Where was that? So Rique taken from Boston College.
- [24:33]
B
Was it early second?
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A
I want to say very early second. I'm not saying he's that high. This class has got Ruben Bane, man. It's got Eldrick Falk from Auburn, it's got TJ Parker, LT Overton, Mateo ui, Angela Lay. But I think he's working his way into that like 6 to 10 range where you got a bunch of other dudes like Anto Seka from Northwestern, Zion Young, Danny Donnie, Dennis Sutton, Tyreek SAP, who's having a huge year. David Bailey's having a huge year for Texas Tech, so. But I think he's starting to compete in that range and it won't shock me if he works his way into day two, if he continues to do what he's done so far this year.
- [25:09]
B
What are you buying about that time? You think he's faster? You think he closes faster?
- [25:13]
C
Yes.
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B
Okay.
- [25:14]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [25:15]
B
I love his tape so far. And the production matches everything. We're going to roll, roll. I don't know if there's any player who's on a heater like USC wide receiver Makai Lennon, who is. I got to find. I'll find the numbers here in a second. 19 catches for 278 yards and three touchdowns over the past two games. He almost willed USC to that, to a win over Illinois. So USC's got. Got Michigan coming to town.
- [25:47]
A
Big game.
- [25:48]
B
They gotta bounce back from that loss to Illinois if they want to get back in the Big Ten race night. It's a 7:30 kick, so I guess it's 4:30 there, but 7:30, NBC, they're gonna need Makai Lemon to have another monster game. Michigan has given up 100 yard receivers in two of their three power four conference games. And the other game a guy had 97. So they've had some problems slowing down some of these receivers and I think Lemon can exploit that.
- [26:12]
A
Look, he's.
- [26:14]
B
He's not a very big dude. He's 5 foot 11, 195. That's what he's listed at.
- [26:19]
C
He.
- [26:19]
B
There are things that I'd like to see him kind of develop as a route runner because it's, you know, like a lot of college receivers, it's crossers, it's hitch, it's go. It's some gimmick stuff where they put him in motion. He caught a long passover Off a trick play against, against Illinois, there's all of those little things going on. But when he does get a chance to run an out, you see that he could be a good route runner at the next level. You see already that he has a great feel for when to settle against zone looks. I think his bet two best skills are his ball skills. He's 5 foot 5 foot 11, 195. He had two contested touchdown catches against Illinois in the fourth quarter. He's just, he's, he's catches the ball well. He's got two catch two drops over the last two years. I think that's 117 targets at this point. So he's very reliable for a smaller guy. And then it's that compete level he is. He will get hit over the middle. He's going to compete for those 50, 50 balls. Despite his size, he's going to, he just does a fight for yards after contact, after the catch. I love the compete level on this kid. Now if we're being honest, there's a difference between being a great college player and what you're, what you project to the next level. At 5 foot 11, 195, he kind of reminds me of Trey Tucker. That's the kind of vibe I get from him is a Trey Tucker vibe. I think he played that role where he's more of a, you know, a slot receiver in the NFL. But he's gone from a player that I thought in the, in the preseason when I wrote him up, I gave him a fourth round grade. I think he's now in the top hundred mix. I think he's in the really in the top three rounds mix. I really do. We'll see how he tests. That'll be a big part of it. Again, it's rough draft, baby. It's early on. We'll see what happens. But right now, I mean that production speaks for itself. Man, he is on fire.
- [28:00]
A
I think it's fair, it's only fair for me to share with the, with the audience three things. One is you came up with this name Rough Draft and I absolutely love it. Two is, and more, more pertinent to what's going on right now, I, when we came up with this concept, I like, I'm never like strict with you or tell you what you have to do and, but the nature of this relationship in the show is I'm hosting it and, and like I'm. There are certain things we're trying to accomplish. I told you there are two things you had to do both of which you have absolutely nailed and both of which I've absolutely failed. One was we're keeping this thing under 30 minutes and then when it, when it goes over and Dan, get your little chuckle in a great producer and editor and Mr. Do It Everything Dan always bets the over. When I say a certain time I've blown that. And then two is I said with every single player I want to know give the audience who they're playing, what time and where they can watch so they can kind of watch what we're talking about. And both times I've failed that. So Cash's how we're going back to Cash's Howell, Texas A&M's playing Florida is one of the games. 7:30 ESPN and this is a good time to remind everyone that like our, our, our flat. This, this will become our favorite show. Our, our flagship show. But like really the show that that is doing the best and we love the most is the Saturday Night Live reaction show. It's on YouTube. Go to the McShay show page, McShay show page on YouTube and we'll send look at our McShay 13. You good men are the two handles for us. We'll, we'll send out information but we're going to break into all four of those games.
- [29:43]
B
We're going to.
- [29:44]
A
We have South Carolina, lsu. We got Texas A and M in Florida, we got USC in Michigan and we got what was it?
- [29:53]
B
South Carolina, lsu.
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A
Yeah, I mentioned that one. There's anyway there's four games in that prime time. We're going to break into it. Come join us. It's a great hang all night and we'll react to all the interaction is.
- [30:02]
B
Is the best part. Getting to interact with everyone, everyone coming at us, going at each other. It's. That's the best part to me.
- [30:09]
A
So while most of us, most of the problems bus going over 30 minutes are going to be on me, part of the problem is gonna it has to go on the shoulders of Dylan Tito. Okay Dylan Tito is a huge fan of our show and for that we are eternally grateful. I don't do a lot of this. I don't like the people who are like oh read an email or someone supporting to try to pat yourself on the back. But when you take time to write a two page email to tell us how you feel about the show, I have to mention you. So first off, Dylan, I really appreciate all of us appreciate your email. I don't want to read the whole thing. We're short on time and I don't think a lot of people want to hear the whole thing, but he starts out by saying, first time. First time email or longtime listener. I wanted to send this to Todd. And he said in parentheses, I'll give. I'll give Mensch his flowers later in the email. And he does. ESPN stuck a thorn in my side the day that they decided you needed to walk out of that building. I've been following you and Kuiper ever since you joined the NFL draft team at espn. Mel's a legend. No one's, no one's trying to take that from him. In parentheses, he writes, yates made first draft insufferable. That's not very professional of me to read. But he wrote it. I didn't. Todd, you're. You're the best NFL draft analyst that walks the face of the earth. And men, you have skyrocketed up the damn, damn ladder, brother. As someone who spends a lot of time in the car for work, I get bleeping amped when you release a new show. The most important trade as a podcaster, the most important trait a podcaster can have. And I could give a rat's ass about what excels in the business, but who can make you feel like you're sitting alongside them in your kitchen or living room with your guard down, just talking ball. You guys do that. You have the it factor. And he goes on to list a bunch of players. The it factor in the NFL. I knew after the first episode that it was going to be the best NFL draft podcast in the industry. And he goes on to talk about the Big Cat show, all these different things. And, and our. He said, I appreciate you and the production team. If you guys open up a merch store, send a link. It's a good idea. I'll. I'll hit a Steelers game this year with a you good mensch hat on. I love that. And then he finishes, and this is why the transition here, he finishes by saying, and he's not the only one. I've gotten a lot of requests fired up that Ahmad hard. Fire up that Ahmad Hardy tape and tell me you don't see a little bit of you know who from last year. All the best. Dylan. Tito. So, Dylan, we appreciate it. You are. You are heard, as they like to say these days. So I have been getting a lot of requests and quite honestly, I did his tape before I even read this email that Dan passed along to me. And I'm thrilled that he did. Ahmad Hardy, he's not eligible. And this is. I'm not Going to do this a lot. But. But I figured it's early in rough draft and, and let's get, let's get ahead of the tape. And he leads the nation. Ahmad Hardy does the Missouri running back. They're playing Alabama at 3:30. Fascinating game. ABC. Okay. It's going head to head with Red River.
- [33:22]
C
Monster game.
- [33:23]
A
Yeah. So in 2024 he's a freshman. This is, this is Hardy now freshman all American at Louisiana Monroe. 12 career games. He compiled 237 rushes, 1351 and 13 touchdowns. Transfers to Missouri, but that was as a true freshman. Okay. So this is his second year and. And this year he comes in, wins the job and is leading the nation in rush yards per game. Mensch one year transfer from, from Monroe and now is leading the nation. 146 yards per game. 730 rush yards and nine touchdowns. 7.1 yards per carry. Party on Tate. He is built like an absolute battering ram. And you're right. You, you. When we were texting back and forth, you're like, it's 211. He's listed 211. I don't buy. I don't. I kind of don't buy it either. I've got way through 215 to 220. He's got a shorter frame at like 511 or 510, whatever it is. Anyway, couple things that stood out with him. He runs with such great urgency but also confidence. And he has confidence because he has some running backs just have it right. That sense of I need to patiently wait. That sense of when I got to hit it. That sense of where the cutback creases before for you isn't even as an evaluator watching tape see it. That's what always tells me when they see something, if you go and rewind it in slow mo and then pause it like how the. Did he see that back back lane. But he saw it and he hits it right. And so. And then the most beautiful thing of his tape is. And I you hear it all the time with go watch first draft or go watch this podcast, whatever. And you'll hear he falls forward at the end of runs. He's got great pad level. Yeah. And I get it and that's what scouts write in their report. But I want to explain to you, this guy, I don't think one time. And I watched, I watched the whole season so far, all of his carries one time did he fall backwards or get stopped? And I don't think one time that one tackler brought him down.
- [35:35]
B
He's the hardest guy to tackle in college football right now. I really believe that, truly.
- [35:38]
A
Okay, so you got all the. The yards he generates and. Yeah, I don't even need pff for this one. I need him for a lot of things to help helps, you know, either. Either like steer me to help solidify a point I've already seen on tape or to make me go look at something else. I don't need pff. I didn't even bother looking for the, like, yards after contact. It's a shit ton. Okay. So. But. But here's the.
- [36:05]
B
I'm pretty sure he leads the country. I'm pretty sure.
- [36:07]
A
I'm sure he does the two things I'm concerned about with the NFL, and he's got a whole nother year. He doesn't explode out of cuts the way I'd like to see. So it's like. It's not even a gathering as much as he. He'll make. He's got quick feet. He'll make that cut, but it. He doesn't out of it. Okay. And I don't know if that's something that will change. Most importantly for his NFL evaluation, he's got a whole nother year next year. Okay. He's only got one catch through five games. It was a screen. Okay. So that's where he's gonna. He's capable as a past protector. He knocked the crap out of him. Yeah. Cat Blitz, South Carolina. But. But his technique's not there. But the passing game development is going to be critical because right now he is one of the most fun and most talented runners between the tackle that college football has to offer.
- [36:58]
B
So who does he remind you of? Who do you think Dylan's talking about?
- [37:01]
A
I mean, he was saying last year. So is he Omarion Hampton?
- [37:08]
B
I think it's got to be Scatter Boo.
- [37:10]
C
I think.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
A
It's scatterable.
- [37:12]
C
Yes.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:13]
A
You would you even mentioned that.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think I saw Scatter Boo too.
- [37:18]
A
By the way, this is a staple now. Don't forget McShay report. Google it. Go subscribe. We got a bunch of stuff coming out this week. Saturday night. Four awesome primetime games. My head's going to be spinning. I know yours will be, too, but it's going to be a fun hang break breaking into those games, watching. I'm going to have the four. Four screens up. It's going to be wild to watch all of that. Come hang with us. The McShay show on YouTube and we'll get you the details this week and send it out on social media. But matches like this is now. This is. This is our staple. This is our. I'm pumped about it. Great job naming it. Great job Dan with coming up with it and I love that we pivoted at the right time as we start gearing up for the NFL draft but also getting you ready for college football. This episode is brought to you by Vuori. As an analyst, I'm a rankings guy. I scope the landscape, look at all the prospects and then make the call. And looking at the Vuori Sunday performance jogger, it's safe to say I found your new favorite jogger. Soft, lightweight, four way performance stretch. The Sunday performance jogger moves with you. No restrictions. And get this, we just landed a deal for friends of our show. They're offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet@viori.com McShay exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. We've got an absolute treat for you today. The Red river rivalry is the biggest game in the Week 7 slate in college football and one of the biggest games in the entire football season. It's ABC 3:30 with Chris Fowler, Kirk Herbstreet and Holly Row and we're thrilled to sit down with Fowler as he prepares for this massive matchup between Oklahoma and Texas. We'll dive into all the storylines including Arch Manning, the Texas offense, Steve Sarkeesian's quest to turn things around and the John Matier situation. I also want to remind everyone Saturday night, it's our staple, the live reaction show mention I'll be breaking into four prime time games. We've got Michigan, usc, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, LSU and Florida, Texas A and M. What an unbelievable run of games we're going to have on Saturday night. So come hang with us on YouTube late Saturday evening. There he is. Are you finally recovered, my man? Taking a deep breath after that. It's September. U.S. open college football. Corso's well deserved tribute. I feel like it was a grind that, that September. You're taking a breath now.
- [39:47]
C
Recovery is scheduled for February 11, the day after the super bowl is which we call for the international fee. No, yeah, grind. But a fun grind. I always say that. Look, it's. People say you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. We work. You know, we work. You know how that is. But it's fun work. It's a fun grind. It's a challenge. I mean, I think I got the best of me. The nexus of US Open and CFB was pretty tough. My voice was trash for one of the Monday night games I did at the end of the run there because.
- [40:18]
A
I. Oh yeah, Monday night too.
- [40:20]
C
I didn't even mention it was a sinus infection. You know, all that stuff. But we've recovered, we're good to go. We've had our stride mid season form. I got, I got two double dip weeks the next two weeks, which, which means I have my Falcons Bills board on the floor with blank, by the way. Nothing's filled in yet. We got to get, get to work on that. But we got OU Texas in the meantime. So.
- [40:42]
A
Speaking of recovery, how's our girl Holly Row doing?
- [40:45]
C
I checked in the next day. Holly is, is a national treasure. Phenomenal at her job. I mean, in that game. What you, what you don't know is she got knocked down. She got up again. She got knocked down. She got up again. It was. The two knockdown rule was in effect. She had fallen earlier before the time that the cameras caught her nearly getting run over. Mike.
- [41:06]
A
Yeah, I didn't know that.
- [41:07]
C
Michael Irvin did nothing to protect her. Well, she didn't advertise, but earlier a mic, cable, someone's camera had gotten tangled around her ankle. She uses a wireless mic, so somehow a cable and the guy ran away and she got pulled to the ground when he ran away. And so she had sent for some ibuprofen from the compound, which rushed out to her. She was already on meds when she went down for the second time. And yeah, Michael Irvin could have been chivalrous, could have stepped in front, but I know instinctively the plane maker protect the knees. And we were just glad that Holly has enough experience to backpedal quickly. You know how you do. The first thing you do is you, you put your hands down, you crouch down and you protect those knees from getting rolled up, which she did. But now she was, she was amazing.
- [41:56]
A
Well, we're, we're thrilled to have you here, Chris. And obviously our. I've. It's like 17 years working for the same company and, and, and honestly looking back and I, I don't want to. We, we don't have all the time in the world today with you, but, but, and I will share with our, with our audience later kind of some of our history. But I like certain people help me throughout my career in certain moments and kind of as you take steps in building your career when you're a young person in this profession and, and the support you always provided and the trust you gave to me in game day, and you and Kirk and DEZ and Coach Corso especially, kind of help elevated things. So I'm always, I'm eternally grateful for that. And just our friendship and going to dinners and all.
- [42:40]
C
Yeah.
- [42:41]
A
Over the years. So it's great to have you on for the first time in the show, man.
- [42:44]
C
That's my pleasure, man. Yeah, it was great working together. If I helped in some way, it's nice of you to say that. I appreciate that. I mean, it's a, it's a team sport we do in tv and the, the collaboration is one of the great joys of it for me. And people come in with different talents and experiences. You work with them and your area of expertise is fascinating to me. I gotta tell you, this season, I can't so often I said, what would McShay think? But what's he thinking about this performance? About that, this individual, like, how much is this guy's stock dropping based on what we've seen? I mean, because that happens every week. The stock goes up and down and you get some quarterback that's listed at the top of the board in the season. Maybe he struggles. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about, but it's like, I wonder what, like what, what is. What's being affected? I mean, you know, I don't think in terms of, you know, it's early in the season, the story hasn't been written yet. These guys have other games to make up for. They have their pro days and their, their days, their meetings with teams, so we know they can recover. But you do wonder, like, wow, I wonder if he's thinking that he cost himself money with that performance because. Yeah, the reality is it happens. Right.
- [43:55]
A
So it's been a wild year at quarterback. Well, Herb street and I text during your broadcast sometimes, so, so you can, you can always reach out. You are here. I, I'm kind of like, I think I can really get behind this go for dose thing. I feel like I've lived my life on that, on that premise. But I do want to give you a minute to share and you know, what your. What. What you're here to promote. And, and I was shocked by this. They sent a note with this. Teams in college football have already attempted 166two point conversions compared to the last season's 162. So it kind of ties into what you're doing as well.
- [44:33]
C
Yeah, I don't know if Dos Equis knew that was going to Be an analytical trend to go for dose much earlier in the game. No, but it's a great campaign. It's obvious tie in with their name, but it, but it does bring up the choices that coaches have to make. Not just in game ending situations where, you know, it's obvious what the stakes are, but in the first quarter where teams will go for dose and you get to read that card. We read the card. I mean, way more than I thought it was going to.
- [44:58]
A
Right.
- [44:59]
C
They've come up so often but you know, because they happen a lot and I don't know if you know, probably you do because you're in this sport what the success rate is in college football for two point conversions, like one play from the three yard line. It might surprise people, maybe not if they watch a lot, but it's under 50%, just under high 40s. The success rate overall, I don't know specifically this year because they've gone for it more often that the data hasn't been compiled yet. But I know that in general in recent seasons it's about 46, 47%. So I'm going to be curious to see. I actually just checked earlier with AI they didn't have a ready answer for me over nationally what it is. But you know that, that, that makes it compelling because it's like a coin flip basically when these teams line up from the three yard line and try to double their money and go for two.
- [45:48]
A
Well, you're covering the Red river as you mentioned before. We're thrilled to talk to you about that game. As you get ready to go down to Texas and really cover one of like the true gems in all of college football. Right. And you got Oklahoma, Texas. I'm curious from you, you always have great perspective on the big picture in college football and what's going on behind the scenes and the, the relationships you have. When you look, when you look at this game and you look at Texas specifically, what do you, what do you make of Texas this season and where they are and kind of just the big picture of that program and what they're facing heading into this game.
- [46:27]
C
Well, the first part, I wish I had all the answers. I don't. I'm looking forward to really, you know, diving into them as the, as kickoff approaches, getting with Sark, getting with players because I don't fully understand why they've struggled as much as they have. I was in Columbus, Lee Corso, game day tribute was there. I watched the first half of that game on the field. Obviously I saw a very well Prepared, complex talent. At Ohio State, defense smothered Texas's offense. I saw Texas defense make some crucial penalties that allowed Ohio State's first scoring drive. And I thought, well, you know, I didn't necessarily expect them to win that game, but I expected them to improve after that game. And I think we've all. Todd, maybe underestimated the difficulty of assembling an elite offensive line. And at a place like Texas where they recruit so well, you sort of assume that you can use lose guys like Banks and send both tackles in the NFL and just plug and play and. And you know, they didn't frankly go to the Portal and do what some other teams do. It's now possible to get quality offensive linemen in the Portal. You got to pay. But that was always the challenge. In the early years of the Portal, it was hard to get those guys to transfer. Now you can, you got to pay them. And Texas didn't go that route. And I think the offensive line struggles have been the easy answer for why they've not put together the kind of start and why Arch Manning has struggled. Part of it's on him, as you know, part better than I do, but part of its protection and the lack of a running game. And it shocks me that Texas can't run the ball well. Baxter's injury is part of it, but I think that, you know, we all assumed that they were going to reload up front and look like Texas and then they have six sacks in the swamp is unacceptable. The Gators hadn't generated a pass rush most of the year, as you know. I mean, the defense had been sturdy, had been missing some guys up front that the backups have been playing well. We did the Miami game, but offensively he couldn't make a first down. I mean, Lagway was. They struggled to make a first down against mine. They had one decent drive all game. So the part of that loss that surprised me for Texas was how much they gave up defensively. And you know, I don't know. You know, nobody does knows what material is going to be able to do on Saturday or not do if they're facing Hawkins, they faced him last year. It's a different kind of an attack, but you'd thoroughly expect Texas to be much more stout and better perform better, be better prepared on defense than they were last week. And offensively, you know, I'm eager to see them against Oklahoma's defense. To me, Oklahoma's played like two real teams. So much like Florida State had played two games before they took on Miami, those stats on the offense were wildly inflated and not really indicative of where they were offensively. And they didn't do much, you know, against Miami's defense. And so is Oklahoma's defense as good as they are on paper? And I think they're good and I think Venables calling the defense has made a huge difference. They've got excellent players. Are they the best defense in the country as the numbers suggest? We're fixing to find out as they. Texas.
- [49:35]
B
Yeah, you sort, you sort of answered the question I had for you because it was the offensive line and watching tape against Florida last week, it seems like it's a chemistry and a personnel issue. It seems like they, like you said, they haven't reloaded there. But also players aren't playing together. Backs aren't blocking as well as maybe they could. Tight ends aren't blocking. And I don't want to let Arch off the hook because like you said, there have been stretches where he hasn't played well, but there's also been stretches where he's played well. And I guess what do you do? Is it the. Would you put more of a stress on getting that running game established or getting the pass protection fixed? It seems to me that they do a lot of play action. So it seems to me they need to get the running game going and that might help them. But I just want to get your thoughts of like the best way to get Arch on track.
- [50:17]
C
Yeah, that's. It's a good question. I'm sure Sark scrapple with that. Well, you guys know from the NFL, if you don't have a running game, play action means nothing. So if you can't run the ball, the quarterback's up against it. Frankly, a lot of what they do, you're right. You want to be able to get up under center and do the play action game. You want to be able to protect him. They're struggling in all areas. I mean, like I said, you can't be that porous. Even in predictable past situations, even with the Gators bringing extra stuff, a lot of it is on him. And you look at the data, you can break down, as you guys know, quarterback pressure, responsibility. Right. And sack responsibility by position. I've got all the data and a lot of it is on the qb. A lot of times people think, oh, the offense. Well, no, it's on him holding the ball too long, being too patient, not throwing it away. You want to generate those downfield shots which he throws beautifully. But there's so much scrutiny. He was never Going to live up to the expectations of the hype. We knew that going into Ohio State and it's been the case ever since, you know, and I think we talked to him, you know, this week. I, you know, I don't know right now that there's a lot of joy in the job for him. He's got to be able to. I sound like an older person when I'm talking.
- [51:30]
A
No, that's that I, I see that. I'm with you on that.
- [51:33]
C
I, I've known Archel. I, I know I've known Cooper forever. I know the man. I'm as you guys. I'm around them and I, yeah, I do pull for him because of that and, and I pull for him because I'm not making him a sympathetic figure. He's extremely felt paid to do his job and it hasn't lived up. But I, I want guys to remember that they got into football for a reason is that they loved it and there's joy there and, and when you're not meeting your own expectations. And that's way more important to him than the outside static is he's played as well as he wants to play. Can he against Oklahoma? Can a win against Oklahoma fix a lot of their ills? Absolutely. But it's going to be tough and not easy because they, they, I mean Venables and that defense is real and I think they're not going to be the greatest defense in the world, but we'll see. Maybe, maybe they'll prove me wrong by smothering Texas and continue on in the sec.
- [52:26]
A
So you mentioned John Mater. I mean listen, Arch is always a huge story in Texas in general but like I get the sense as we get closer and closer to this game and some Pete Thamel coming out and saying, well, you know, surgery went really well. Like first of all, you want to break any news here? You got any material news?
- [52:44]
C
Well, we have our Oklahoma zoom is later. I don't know if Venable is going to break news for us. I mean I think think it's. It's always interesting when you, when you this the modern miracles of surgery. When you get the best guy in the world, you have the hand surgery done and it's not the most serious variety but the thumb isn't. Fracture wasn't as serious, blah, blah, blah. It, it's still a thumb. Right? I mean isn't that kind of important for a quarter?
- [53:03]
A
Yeah, like I'm just like, I don't.
- [53:07]
C
I'm not a expert thrower of the ball but it Seems like that would be.
- [53:10]
A
You've held one in your hand before, right? I mean, I mean so.
- [53:14]
C
So yes. It's a gray area. You have to. You have to be really confident that.
- [53:18]
B
You can do it.
- [53:19]
C
Can. Can you sustain a shot to the hand? I mean, it's unlikely that that area is not going to be under duress. I thought he played well, Todd. You know, it was. We had the Michigan, Oklahoma game down there when he really carried the look, kind of put the team in his back and I knew coming from Wazoo and I knew be a great fit for the offense. He's a great guy. But is it sustainable going into the SEC grind to have a quarterback take that many hits, run the ball that style?
- [53:48]
A
Yeah.
- [53:48]
C
Historically when it's been done over a period of time, it's been done by a creature and done by an alien like Tim Tebow or Cam Newton.
- [53:58]
A
Cam Newton, yep.
- [53:59]
C
Jaden Daniels is a different kind of creature. You just couldn't hit him that often and you didn't want him taking direct shots either. He did suffer some shots and get knocked out of games and play hurt a lot more than people realized. And I'm sure material is a tough guy. He can play hurt that particular injury, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think you want to lighten the workload on him and let him do his thing. But it is such an integral part of what he brings.
- [54:23]
A
Let me float this theory that I've had since the beginning of the week and I shared with Steve and our group. I think Venables as a defensive coach knows the stress and strain it creates having two different style quarterbacks. Right. Well, while Mattier is a runner and does some of those things like just going back and watching a tape of Kent State like it is a different animal this offense and what they are able to do and what they tried to do with Hawkins Jr. In there. So my guess is even if there's absolutely no chance that Mater plays on Saturday, he wants Texas to have to prepare it. The time is limited in practice. So if you're. Every minute they're preparing, I should say for. For Mater is a minute that they're not preparing for Hawkins. So I'm just curious your thought on. On that theory.
- [55:15]
C
No, I think it's true. I think that's why injury reports are kept secret. You feel like if you can get a 2% edge because they're not sure who's going to be out there, that that 2% is worth the secrecy. And then I compelled to share Information anyway in the way that you are in the NFL. So we're not going to know. I mean I'll know more in a few hours and, but we'll know for sure. You know, Friday, Saturday morning for sure. I, you know, I don't know that it's radically different with Hawkins in there. I just know that, that I saw Hawkins play against Texas a year ago and, and you know, he, he's capable of electrifying runs, but I think it became predictable and to, to one dimensional and they. Oklahoma didn't have have much success in that game against a really talented Texas defense that's proven to be a little bit better than this unit so far. But no, I obviously I wanted to play because you want, you want the, their best players to be there. Yeah, they games. I hope he can go, but I'm skeptical like you.
- [56:11]
A
If I were to, were to think of one word to kind of describe this Red river this year is volatile.
- [56:19]
C
Right.
- [56:19]
A
Like don't you. And that for, for you and for a broadcast this is like wonderful. Like there's so much uncertainty. There's much pressure on this game always. But then you add Arch in the Texas offense and start the whispers now of what's going on in Texas and Steve Sarkeesian and the press conference and then John Matier, is he playing like it just feels more volatile than, than typically coming into what's already just one of the great rivalries in all of college football.
- [56:46]
C
Yeah, it's my favorite game to call every year and people ask that. We used to be the wideout. We can't call Big Ten games anymore but, but so it's always been right there. I've seen a lot of them ringside when game day was there. Got a chance to call some games. It's bedlam every play, no matter who's, who's doing well. So the scene is special. The backdrop is different this year, but it's, it's not been spoiled by the fact that Texas has a couple of losses. There are more, there's more urgency there. Yeah, you're right. It's, it's, it's kind of supercharged on both sides. You know, the team that got handled last year, Oklahoma, Venables, wants to come back and you know, just the way Texas wanted to come back after Gabriel got him before. So that, that push pull is always a beautiful thing, the rivalry. You know, people say, well it doesn't matter what the records are. Throw out the records in this rivalry. You know what the records do matter this year and They're a part of the backdrop. Texas is in must win mode. Period. Period. Right. You can't take a third loss.
- [57:46]
A
No, that's it.
- [57:47]
C
And you would have zero control of your destiny. You'd have to have a complete chaos. You'd have to try to navigate back to the SEC championship game in a hyper competitive conference, you know, starting a race with a serious handicap or, you know, I just. They have to win the game. So that makes it compelling. And I think the backdrop is really different. We talked about the struggles for on the Texas side and the fact that Oklahoma, I mean, still has to prove a couple of things right. I mean they have looked good, they've earned their spot. But Michigan and Auburn, you know, that's not Murderers Row. And then the other games are basically nine games. So I'm really eager to see them perform in this stage. And the plot lines are really cool.
- [58:35]
B
Yeah, I love the contrast in styles and backgrounds with these two head coaches, but wanted to focus in on Venables for a second. Is this the kind of team you expected him to build when he left the Clemson job four years ago to take his first head coaching job?
- [58:48]
C
Well, I knew the success in the SEC was going to be tough. I don't know that because there wasn't continuity that Oklahoma had been building their roster and recruiting for the SEC the way Sark's been able to do at Texas. And their schedule is brutal. As you know, it's the same schedule this year with the sites reversed. But they didn't do Oklahoma any favors in the first couple of years in the conference and they were diving into the deep end and he's trying to develop this team and they're just getting murderers rub. The schedule was rough for them and it's challenging again this year. But I think you expect him to have a defense that's going to be better than the sum of its parts and you expect the parts to be really good. So I expect elite defense. Him going back and calling it the offensive piece has been a challenge. Continuity has been a challenge. Wanting to play complimentary football, everybody knows when you're a play caller for it. For a team that is coached by a defensive minded guy, it can be challenging. I think Ben Arbuckle is a really bright guy. I mean I, you know, when, when they were doing great, when Mattier was in there, it was like, okay, what? Which NFL job has been Arbuckle going to take? You know, that was and it will be which head coaching job or is.
- [60:02]
A
It going to be a play call.
- [60:03]
C
Everybody was putting him there because he's under 30 and he's having great success and he is one of the bright young minds in coaching. So. But again, it's, it's this, this game is humbling and the SEC is, is, is humbling. That doesn't matter who you are. You know, it doesn't matter if you're Nick Saban or Kirby Smart or whoever you are, certainly Sarks. It's going, you're going to be humbled, you're going to be brought down to earth. You're going to have those nights when shit ain't working and perceptions are going to be changed and the fortitude of your team is going to be tested and we're just beginning that. So I mean, to me, Oklahoma's story is far from being written at this point.
- [60:45]
A
I want, we'll get you out of here in just a little bit. I got a couple of quick hitters for you. First of all, part of the broadcast that makes it special with you and Kirk is it's also a college football show baked in and a little bit more so when the games maybe a blow up but like the big picture perspective and doing, you know, hosting college game day for as long as you did and doing a phenomenal job like you always have a great feel for like nationally and you've seen a lot of these, the top teams so far this year. So if I made you the one man college football Playoff, you didn't have to focus on, on strength of record or most deserving. But in your opinion, you got a chance to hand us the national championship matchup. Who would be your top two teams right now that you would want to see go head to head?
- [61:32]
C
That's a tough question, you know, because I mean the Big Ten is so top heavy and they really haven't fully collided into each other. I mean we went to Penn State and won and off that win you immediately would put the Ducks in that position. It's hard not to put Ohio State there too. But, and I still, like I said, the sec, it's a long way to being sorted out. And then once you get in the bracket, like who's equipped to win three games or four games if you don't get the buy? Ohio State clearly was last year equipped to do that and you have to year one of it. It was interesting to see, you know, do you fall back on roster talent and depth? Because it matters as you expand the playoff format, as we've seen in the NFL, sometimes it's just who's healthier and who's healthier, who's got that momentum built up? And sometimes you can take zero momentum after the end of the Michigan debacle and turn it into fuel. So. It's a long answer. It's hard for me to say because I wouldn't have thought sitting here at this point in the season, Todd, that the three highest ranked teams in the SEC were going to be Ole Miss, A and M and Oklahoma. You tell me. Okay, who are they? Who are those three teams going to be? And they're not going to include Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida. I just said you're insane. Right. But here we are a month plus into the season and already we've had that shake up in the SEC we haven't had, unless you count UCLA shocking Penn State and knocking them way under the back burner after, after being in a position to beat Oregon and be perhaps number one in the country. Look what's happened in the couple of weeks now. Ohio State, I just don't see them getting challenged. I don't, I don't see Ohio State losing for a while. I frankly don't. I don't see them losing in the regular season. I mean, yeah, they got to play Michigan. Yeah. Michigan's been in their head. You still, they're still the favorite in that camp right now. Going in. Pretty solid favorite, probably. And then, then, you know, then they're in the playoff. Okay. They're in. If they navigate through that. Doesn't matter what happens in Indy. And Ohio State is shown that they've, They've got the roster depth and talent to get there again. It's not a very exciting pick, but get teams that we thought at the beginning of the season were positioned to be there, like Clemson, quickly have fallen away. So Miami, Miami is.
- [64:04]
A
Yeah, I was, I was going to say. I know you're.
- [64:06]
C
Yeah, yeah. Because I tend to immediately go big 10 sec as you do the Canes. You know, I, I wrote back with some people or Miami fans after the game. The Cane's number one is. That game put us number one. Calm down. It doesn't matter. First of all, I don't even know Mario wants that for his team. They did jump to two, which surprised me a little bit. I don't, I don't know what the reasoning was for that. I mean, they looked good. The game against Florida State was, was not nearly as close as the final score. They dominated them and they kind of fell asleep in the lead as well. They do. But at the time, at one point, it was 28 to 3. So they look great. The schedule sets up. They'll be solid favorites. They got to handle that role. The rat poison, as Cristobal has adopted his former boss's phrase. And you know, Saban taught his former assistants well and Mario knows that he's. His teams have collapsed. So can they, can they reverse that trend? Todd, can he get a team ready? Could this be the group? Because the roster changes every year, so you can't hold these guys responsible for Miami collapsing in other years. But it's a strong trend. November hits, they stumble against people they shouldn't stumble against. They don't respond to the pressure, internal or external, of expectations very well. I mean, they're in the playoff list. Or they lose at Syracuse from 21 up. I mean, come on.
- [65:27]
A
Yeah.
- [65:27]
C
And the entire defensive staff basically is gone because of those kinds of collapses. And so I think this team is very talented. They're very well set up. They have the best front four in college football. They have a guy in Carson Beck that I thought would have a big year. They have Malachi Tony, Who's a Day 1 star. They have C.J. daniels. They have multiple backs. They have an emerging tight end in Lofton. And they got a secondary that I thought was maybe a little bit suspect, but has gotten better and grown on the job and is playing behind a ferocious pass rush that, as you know, can get home with four and finish a game like they did against. Finish the game like, you know, that's what fascinates me about getting to know the NFL better is like those kinds of things. When you can do that and the college level, when you get closer, what, what, what, what $50 million guys can do in the NFL, which is go win the game right now with a sack that is priceless. And Miami can do that. And so they have different ways to win, which is a way of saying that they are the most intriguing team for me because they're going to muscle up on, on ACC competition. I, I think, you know, Louisville at home and then you talk, look at the rest of their schedule. They don't. They leave the state finally November 1st to play SMU, but again, not easy. They can even afford a loss, which is dangerous to, for them to think about. But, you know, I, I see them as really well positioned. I'd be shocked if they're not in the playoff. And once they get in, how do they handle business?
- [66:57]
A
You know, I know Steve has one last question he's been dying to ask you, so go ahead.
- [67:02]
C
Rapid fire. I don't do well with. You can ask my wife or anybody else.
- [67:09]
A
Come on, man. I've seen you do three hour game day shows without a single note. I just love the topic.
- [67:14]
C
I love the questions because we don't know the answers, but, yeah, speculation. I didn't really give you an answer to that.
- [67:19]
A
No, no, no, that's exactly what we were looking for. Just kind of. Because you've a good feel for. For like the whole. The big picture. And that's what I wanted to share here.
- [67:26]
C
True.
- [67:28]
B
McShay is always telling me about his experiences covering games and telling me stories about where I need to go. I think both of you are big fans of Chuck's Fish. Is that. I think that's right?
- [67:36]
A
Yeah, that's right. Chris Eddings. You introduced me to him. Go ahead.
- [67:39]
B
Yeah. So if you could send me or other college football fans to one place for one game to have that perfect college football weekend, where are we going?
- [67:50]
C
Wow. So the week, does that mean like food and beverage and it would be.
- [67:54]
A
Sponsored by Dose equities.
- [67:56]
C
I'll take.
- [67:57]
B
I'll take whatever you can give me.
- [67:59]
C
You know, I mean, again, LSU is a lot of people's answer for a reason. Okay. Because they're the food. Check the food part. Check the hospitality part. The tailgating, assuming it's a night game, which you should go to a night game, is amazing. I've had the tailgate experience, both sober when I was working that night and not when I wasn't. I was just. Game day's over at 11 Central. The game is much later. I'm out in the mix of people wearing a T shirt and having a good time. And then the experience, because I've heard from so many people who are from Europe or somewhere else or haven't grown up around college football. And you take them in there and you see the experience and the insanity of it. You know, the best crowds in college football are the ones where the regular folks act like students, Right? If the student section's crazy, which Penn State's has always been, that's okay on a white out. The regular folks are crazy. That's why the environment is different. And that's what makes the SEC consistently the toughest environments to play, because the regular folks get as crazy as the young folks do. And so LSU is that, you know, times five. So I would say go have that experience if you haven't already had it there. There are many other great game day experiences, but, I mean, if I had to pick one, that would be it.
- [69:18]
A
Well, we appreciate the the go for dose Dos Equis promotion that you're doing and we appreciate your time as always. I'm excited to, to watch this game. I mean, Red river with all these storylines. It's going to be an awesome Saturday. And I know you.
- [69:36]
C
Street makes it. It's a. It's going to be a wire. Yeah.
- [69:38]
A
Like on top of all that, this is. This has become. To me, it's become the. It's Red river, but with this backdrop of is Herbie gonna make it in time and you doing the CYA for Herbie and the whole broadcast until everything kind of everyone gets to take a deep breath.
- [69:55]
C
Game day was in the building. Todd a couple years ago and he wasn't in the booth when Xavier Worthy took it. Took a ball 75 yards on a screen to the house. So the first quarter of the first play of the game. You remember the play?
- [70:06]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [70:07]
C
That's when people showed, oh, like this dude is track fast. And he's. He still is. And he was, he was like getting the headset on, analyze the replay, but he wasn't position. And then last year, you know, he did the game day picks from the plane. They have to leave Eugene. They have to leave this set an hour early because there's no. The math doesn't work right. And he flew from Eugene to Dallas. It's weird that it lined up this way two years in a row. I assume the same plan is in place, but in all the things you were adding about the anxiety and the stress and the subplot river, that's one for me.
- [70:41]
A
Oh, I'm sure.
- [70:42]
C
I mean, we have a backup plan. There is somebody there doing some prep who is ready to jump in and analyze this game. But in case Kirk isn't there at the start, I hope he is. It does add some stress.
- [70:59]
A
It's just wild. It's awesome. Well, we appreciate your time, my man. It's always, always good catching up with you and, and keep in touch.
- [71:08]
C
Enjoy the program, man. Really, I'm a fan. Keep it going and let's do. Let's do it again.
- [71:12]
A
Okay. Sounds good.
- [71:13]
C
See you guys.
- [71:14]
A
There he is. Man, what a treasure Fowler is. I mean, he's unbelievable. His, his depth of knowledge, but the storytelling and all. I just, I love the whole concept of he's up there in a booth and the game's getting ready to start and he doesn't have a clue of Herb street, like the mechanics of if he's going to be up there and you've got Arch and Sarkeesian and Matier might not be playing. Like that is a stressful deal.
- [71:39]
B
And you're calling who's the alternate by the way? I didn't want to ask him but I want to know who the alternate usually it gets leaked.
- [71:45]
A
Usually gets. Because, because that person is either not doing his game or it wouldn't surprise me if like, I don't know, like an Orlovsky because they're doing Monday night together. So it could be, it could be someone like that. But anyway, that was, that was a lot of fun. Chris is, Chris is always a treat. We'll have him back on and like I said, he's, he's been, you know, like no one knew me back in the day. It came, you know, ESPN or nationally and, and when it was presented to them from Lee Fitting who was the, the producer but he never, he never batted an eye and like I was sent, I would send him my reports, you know, like our matchups and all that stuff. And, and not only did he like bring me on, like we would talk during the week and he would ask me questions and then he would ask for my scouting rankings and kind of a friendship and relationship developed over time and yeah, I mean he just from day one that man supported what I was doing and what we were doing and, and so I'm always grateful for those. You know, I'll take my shots at certain people because they deserve it. But, but when, when someone's, someone's that, that meaningful for your career and has been there from the beginning, it's, it's hard not to, you know, share that with, with our audience. So. All right, that was an awesome interview. Good to get caught up, so fired up for this matchup.
- [73:04]
B
Man, it's gonna be good. I don't care. I mean I know there's questions on both sides. You know it's going to be good. It's always good.
- [73:10]
A
It's always wild. And the hitting that does the one thing there's certain games. Alabama, Auburn, Michigan, Ohio. When you're on the field. I've had the, the pleasure of being on the field for a lot of these big time games. The first thing you notice from like the kickoff, the first series, the noises are the hitting, the striking is different and so that, that's going to be one of them on Saturday. So awesome interview. Awesome show. 5 stars. Mitch must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-G GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdg.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.