Todd’s Pre-Combine Top-50 Big Board: A Surprise at 1, Mendoza Red Flags, and Other Takeaways. Plus, the Future of NFL Draft Psychological Testing.

Summary

---

The McShay Show (The Ringer)

Episode: Todd’s Pre-Combine Top-50 Big Board: A Surprise at 1, Mendoza Red Flags, and Other Takeaways. Plus, the Future of NFL Draft Psychological Testing
Date: February 19, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode is packed with NFL Draft analysis as Todd McShay unveils his updated pre-combine Top-50 Big Board, featuring some surprising rankings and deep dives into positional value and grading philosophy. In addition to examining this year's top prospects, the episode features a fascinating interview with Dr. Scott Goldman of Athletic Intelligence Quotient (AIQ), the leading authority on psychological assessments in the draft process. Goldman discusses the evolution and science behind NFL psychological testing, real-life player examples, and what AIQ reveals about prospects in this year’s class.

---

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Todd McShay’s Pre-Combine Top-50 Big Board

Why the Board Now?

• Todd explains that releasing his Top 50 before combine workouts ensures the rankings aren't unduly influenced by athletic test results. He advocates for evaluating tape and prior performance before factoring in the "underwear Olympics" measurements. (05:01)

Methodology & Grading Rigor

• Emphasis on stacking players not just by talent but by historical context and positional value. Todd compares this year’s grades to top prospects from recent years to keep evaluations consistent. (08:27)

Surprises at the Top

• Running Back Jeremiah Love takes #1 overall spot — a first in McShay’s career.

  “I finally mustered up the onions to just put a running back at number one overall, something I literally have never done before.” (22:22, Todd McShay)

• Edge rusher David Bailey and linebacker Arvell Reese are right behind, with safety Caleb Downs rounding out a non-quarterback-heavy top 4.
• QB Fernando Mendoza is only #5 despite being the media favorite for the #1 pick and a likely selection by the Raiders, per Todd’s sources (10:00), owing to his stricter grading philosophy.

Philosophical Debate: Value, Grades, and Traits

• The panel debates positions and grades:
  • Are non-premium players worth top grades?
  • “I don't mind Jeremiah Love being one… 94 is too high. I think Reese is too high at 94, and I think Bailey's too high at 94.” (13:36, Mitch)
  • Todd discusses the fine point difference between seemingly similar grades, emphasizing the big NFL salary implications between a “94” and “95.” (14:08)

Positional Tiers & Standouts

• First Tier: Love, Bailey, Reese, Downs — all “blue chip” talents.
• Second Tier: Mendoza and the offensive linemen (Maui Noah, Fano), plus receivers Tate and Lemon, and edge Bain.
• Third Tier: Players with minor medical/age/red flag traits, e.g., Jordan Tyson, Akeem Messidor, Sonny Styles.

---

2. Deep Dives on Top Prospects

Mendoza Red Flags

• Mendoza’s toughness, mental traits, and high processing get praise—but concerns remain about his reaction under pressure and short-area agility:

  “What concerns me about him...there's a quarter count of panic that sets in. Eyes drop like that... he hasn't learned to calmly handle those moments.” (29:12, Todd McShay)

Bailey vs. Reese: The Great Pass Rusher Debate

• Bailey is the more “proven” pass rusher; Reese is a rawer, high-ceiling projection. The conversation draws parallels to recent prospect mistakes (e.g., Micah Parsons dropping to 12th).

  "I just feel like if you take Bailey over him, you're going to look back and say you could have had one of the best edges in the league.” (18:23, Mitch)

• NFL quote: “Guys in the league don't make decisions on hope.” (22:57, per NFL exec to Todd)

Early WR & OL Trends

• Debate over top tackles Francis Maui Noah (Miami) vs. Spencer Fano (Utah)—Todd has them graded equally, but Mitch is firmly Team Fano.
• Makai Lemon (USC) is a polarizing WR prospect, praised for tape but red-flagged for possibly being sub-6’0” which, historically, is a concern for WRs making an NFL impact. (35:43)
• Emerging sleepers highlighted: DBs McNeil Warren (Toledo) and Avion Terrell (Clemson).

Sleeper Profiles & “Buckets”

• Jordan Tyson (WR, Arizona State): Phenomenal tape, durability concerns.
• Monroe Freeling (OT, Georgia): Polarizing, huge upside but inconsistent tape and only a one-year starter.

---

3. The NFL Draft’s Newest Frontier: Psychological Testing (w/ Scott Goldman, AIQ)

Intro to AIQ & NFL Adoption ([48:53–50:40])

• AIQ is the only NFL-certified psychological assessment tool, correlating directly with NFL performance metrics.
• Goldman: “We have five peer-reviewed papers, three showing significant correlation with on-field performance in the NFL…” (50:40)
• Covers four athlete domains: physical, experience, personality, intelligence — AIQ measures the “intelligence” aspect, focused on processing, adaptability, and decision-making.

How AIQ Works

• Over 15,000 athletes in the database. Test is ~35 mins on an iPad—all interactive, not language-based.
• Results contextualize a player’s fit for various schemes, developmental needs, and can highlight "hidden gems."

  “It’s like, if you want to know how fast a guy is, you have him run the 40. Similarly, we’re not asking you how intelligent you are; we’re observing it through task-based testing.” (55:30, Scott Goldman)

What Do Teams Get?

• Teams receive analytical reports, ongoing consulting, and access to new “AIQ Plus”—an AI built from years of playbooks, data, and NFL expertise for deeper scenario breakdowns and player comparisons. (58:40)

Case Studies: 2025 Draft Hits

• TMAC (Tet McMillan, WR): AIQ flagging as a high cognitive fit for complex option-tree offenses—explaining his jump as a pro.
• Carson Schlesinger (LB): Projected to be a “green dot” leader due to off-the-charts processing—data explained why his physical traits mattered less.

2026 Preview: Prospects with Agent-Approved AIQ Insights

(Key Segments: 73:50–81:52)

• Arvell Reese (LB/Edge): “His versatility and ability to handle the responsibilities of multiple attacking points… you can line him up in a lot of different places...”
• Chris Johnson (CB, San Diego State): “Has superior field awareness and vision... cognitive profile suggests he could fit the slot or outside.”
• Eli Stowers (TE, Vanderbilt): “Exceptional processing speed, decision-making, and spatial awareness. Finds holes in coverage, sees the field, not necessarily the biggest or fastest.”
• Jake Galde (LB, Cincinnati): “Can take a big playbook and learn it quickly... rare ability to absorb info, teach others, and not require excess coaching repetition.”

“Why wouldn’t you want this? The first thing if I took a GM job is to make sure I had access to this kind of information.” (87:53, Todd McShay)

The Wider Impact

• AIQ teams use results not just for drafting, but for post-draft development, deployment, position changes, and long-term fit.
• Super Bowl-winning offensive lines have mapped out position shuffles based on AIQ cognitive profiles.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I know the quarterback’s going number one, and I’m told even just as recently as the last 72 hours...he’s going number one to the Raiders.” – Todd McShay (10:00)
• “There’s a difference between situational football and what happens in the lifetime of a snap.” – Mitch (31:38)
• “A lot of teams still have their own psychologists, but AIQ is the only testing recognized by the NFL now.” – Todd McShay (03:05)
• “His scores align with metrics that suggest he’ll have success in sacks, TFLs, turnovers.” – Scott Goldman on Arvell Reese (78:41)
• “When you have two independent sources in alignment—tape and cognitive data—you have a lot more confidence in what you see.” – Scott Goldman (80:36)
• “This is more than just a number, more than just a one-and-done moment—our job is continuous development with player and team throughout the year.” – Scott Goldman (88:47)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:07 – Show intro, context for psychological testing segment
• 05:01–12:00 – Top 50 methodology, philosophical debate (premium positions, grading history)
• 13:10–24:49 – Top 5 breakdown: Running backs, edge, LB, safety, QB Mendoza red flags
• 31:22–36:41 – WR/OT debate, deeper Big Board insights (tiers, parity, size concerns)
• 48:53–52:00 – Scott Goldman joins: About AIQ, scientific rigor, NFL partnership
• 55:30–59:13 – AIQ test description, database, value for teams, product overview
• 63:35–68:19 – AIQ real-world results: Tet McMillan and Carson Schlesinger case study
• 73:50–81:52 – Four 2026 prospects: Arvell Reese, Chris Johnson, Eli Stowers, Jake Galde cognitive profiles
• 88:47–89:49 – AIQ’s work with teams post-draft—and a Super Bowl OL room story

---

The Takeaway

This episode is a must-listen for draftniks, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how elite evaluators rank prospects (and why) before the combine, the internal debates on grading, and the growing influence of psychological profiling on the future of NFL scouting. The discussion with Scott Goldman and the AIQ case studies offer a window into the next horizon of talent evaluation — where brains and fit matter as much as brawn and tape.

For the full Top 50 and more, subscribe to The McShay Report newsletter.

---

Transcript

[Scott Goldman]

Foreign.

[Todd McShay]

Top 50 prospects is ready to drop, so it's obviously a big day. Plus, we've got Scott Goldman from aiq, the foremost authority in psychological testing for NFL draft prospects. And you know What? There's only 63 days until the NFL draft. Mitch, you good?

[Mitch]

I'm good, man.

[Todd McShay]

Tucker, roll that beat, please. Updated top 53 combine, man. We're going to dive into that. I also want to mention, and I'll, I'll kind of explain a little bit more in detail later in the. Scott Goldman, like, we're in over our heads today, man.

[Mitch]

I'm a little worried about it. I'm a little worried about, you know, is he gonna be breaking me down as we're talking to him? I'm a little nervous, to be honest with you, man.

[Todd McShay]

We're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year, we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes Next, taking that classic 70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead. Join the [e-mail] just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. Yeah, I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with him. I don't know, 10, 10 days ago, two weeks ago, right after the Senior Bowl. We met at the Senior bowl and, and a connection was made. So. And we've long since talked about the psychological aspect. It's kind of like the, I don't know, the secret in the room that these players take these, like, psychological tests. I didn't quite realize, if I'm being honest with you, how important that aspect was. Like, I've always known. You know, we've grown up in this business professionally, right? Like the, the Wonderlic test. Right. And the interview process. And, and I've, I always knew that they were like, maybe a psychology person, was a psychologist or psychiatrist was behind some of the questions that teams would ask and they would try to dig. I didn't know to the lengths that teams go to make sure they understand the psychology behind each player and like the neuropsychology process, right. Until I, honestly, until Bill Polian and I know Bill Polian, when you hear that name, some people think this and that and the other thing, when Bill Polian came from the Colts, he was a six time executive of the of the year in the NFL as a general manager and and was on top of his game and shared with me sitting in the the out in LA at the one of the All Star games that that used to exist and just how important that was and how they had their own team psychologists. But now what's happened is you know a lot of teams are not that they still do but they also have this you know the different kinds of tests right. And we've, we've heard of different different ones recently. AIQ is the only one recognized by the NFL and we have the, the co founder and and basically the head of the entire company reached out to us, wanted to talk to us. Obviously helps promote his product but for us he's willing to talk about players from last year's draft and this year's draft. Like there's we're not just going to have some like you know, 30,000 Foot View or I can't talk about player like we're actually he he got permission from agents to talk about specific players in this draft and a couple of guys I missed on from last year and why I missed on him in his mind. So it's going to be a fascinating conversation.

[Mitch]

This episode is brought to you by TaxAct.

[Todd McShay]

Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step

[Scott Goldman]

by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes.

[Todd McShay]

Get tips along the way.

[Scott Goldman]

Add expert assist to talk to tax

[Todd McShay]

experts and let our experts do your taxes for you.

[Scott Goldman]

With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve

[Todd McShay]

so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more.

[Scott Goldman]

Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

[Todd McShay]

Station but we got the top 50 and I like to put out the top 50. I want to ask you this question before I say this. We talked about doing a top 50 list of the best football players in the draft. Should we do it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday at the combine? Pri think about it prior to the workout so that we're not skewed by that. I know we haven't gotten to the team.

[Mitch]

Really good point.

[Todd McShay]

Tricky. It's tricky, right? Well, let's think.

[Mitch]

Yeah, we could do the fir. We could do the, the rough draft of the top.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, rough draft. So, so let's think about that. But this is my top 50 prospects as it pertains to this year's draft class. It's an update. I, I have kind of a working top 100 list going. I'm releasing it tomorrow. If you're not subscribe to the McShay Report. By now, and you're watching this show means you don't love ball or you've got something against me or you just don't care enough. Google it. The McShay Report. Subscribe tomorrow morning in your inbox. Comes directly to you from me and. And. And the. My top 50 full release will be there. Still a couple players I want to finish tape on before I release it to feel really comfortable with it. And then we'll do a top 100 post combine and a mock draft after the combine.

[Scott Goldman]

So.

[Todd McShay]

And by the way. And then the housekeeping's over. I promise. Next week's a big one, man. And I. Marissa, we fly in. Dan's coming in with Tucker from la. We got the gang all back, Right.

[Mitch]

Are Jake and Nick gonna be there? I hope Jake and Nick are there.

[Todd McShay]

Jake and Nick are supposed to be there. Our camera guys who travel with us around the country and do all these things, they're the literally the best in the business. And I've worked in this business for over 20 years. I know what I'm talking about. Jake and Nick are the. So with all that said, Monday, first show. From there, news buzz. What's going on? Intel preview, the combine. Same thing Tuesday, same thing Wednesday. Okay. And then Thursday, we'll have our first show reacting to all the workouts. Same on Friday, same on Saturday. Then we're back. We've traveled back on Sunday, and the offensive linemen are working out. We travel back in the morning. We'll catch those on Sunday as it's happening in the afternoon. And then we'll have a Monday show wrapping up, you know, information on the offensive lineman and do the entire, you know, recap the following Monday. So we got a massive week coming up. A lot of steaks gonna be eaten, you know, a lot of shrimp cocktail. Maybe some shrimp cocktail with too much horseradish in. In the. In the sauce, but we're fired up for that. But I want to get to this top 50.

[Mitch]

Okay, let's go. You even got some of it right. It's encouraging.

[Todd McShay]

The hardest part was at the top, man. I really like.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Okay, so here's what I had to do for this one. As we're getting closer, I always talk about it. It's like air traffic control, Right? Let's just get all the planes up in the air, and let's start trying to get them in the right direction. And. And as you get closer, we got a flight plan, and we know when you're going to land, and Then as we get really close to the draft, we're going to start stacking those planes in order, right? So we're kind of in that phase where all the planes have taken off. We know the 319 players from the combine, we know all the players have gone to all the different All Star games. We had a preseason list that we've been working off of and doing tape. All this stuff is going on, right? But now we're. As we head to the combine, we've got this, the. The portion of the process where you and I are literally watching tape after tape after tape all day long, writing evaluations, like, so it's fluidly moving, and everyone's like, well, why is. Why is this guy going up your board and down your board? Well, because I. I'm still getting caught up on all the tape and also talking to people in the league and getting in after. After next week, we'll get more medical reports and we'll get more interview reports, and we'll get some psychological background. So there's just so many factors that go into all of this.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But when I look at this top 50, it's a good jumping off point for where we are right now. Right. And then we'll follow it up with the top 100 at the, you know, after the. After the combine. But I struggle with the fact that, that the best players in this draft are not at premium positions. Many of the best players, a few of the best players. And then I have to go back at this point in the process and start looking at previous year's grades. It's a big part of it. I can't give Mendoza a higher grade than Jeremiah Love or Arvell Reese or David Bailey or even Caleb Downs. If I'm trying to make sure, historically, I'm keeping everything intact, Right? Because, yeah, I can't. I can't give him a grade that's higher than a Cam Ward or a Drake May or equal to a Jaden Daniels or. Because I don't believe that that's the case or Caleb Williams coming out in the draft. So I started that process is the first time that I've had an eye on historically, trying to line them all up. As I talked about air traffic control, now I'm telling you, all right, the flight plan is this. We're scheduled to land around 3:43pm Eastern time, right? That's where we are. And so as I'm doing this, I'm looking at Jeremiah Love and I'm looking at David Bailey at a premium position. And I'm looking at Arvell Reese that we are projecting at a premium position. He was seen. We've seen, we've got a catalog, but it's not a large catalog. At edge rusher. So an off the ball linebacker, a running back and a safety in Caleb Downs. And while I know the quarterback's going number one, and I'm told even just as recently, last 72 hours by someone I trust, he's going number one to the Raiders, we'll see if that how that plays out. But that's one source that I have that's like, hey, I get it. And you're not wrong. And organizationally it may not be the best move to bring him in right now, considering where they are as an organization. But count on that happening. I can't put Mendoza at one, even though I know he's going to one, because I have a duty to stay true to grades. And I'm looking at this year's class. And Jeremiah Love and Bailey and Reese are the three best prospects in this draft. And Caleb Downs is right behind him. And then Mendoza at 5. So that's, that's how it plays out in my top five. And putting a running back at number one. I don't know that I've ever done that. In fact, I know I haven't done that.

[Mitch]

No, I mean, you love Jameer Gibbs. He wasn't even sniffing no top spot. No,

[Todd McShay]

I can.

[Mitch]

Can I say something now? You.

[Todd McShay]

It's all you can.

[Mitch]

I don't mind the, the way the players fall. I don't have it exactly that same ranking. What I do mind is thinking. I don't think that if you're going to have a beef about Fernando Mendoza getting such a high grade, David BAILEY Getting a 94 is kind of wild to me. I love David Bailey. He's one of the, he's one of the top five players in the draft in my mind. But a 94 for a guy who weighed 247 pounds in the preseason?

[Todd McShay]

Well, I went back and looked like Miles Garrett was like a 97 and the Bosa brothers were like 96 and 95.

[Mitch]

Like, you're great about it. I still think 94 feels high to me. I feel like these, these three that you have separated, I would put them at the top, but I don't think they've, they've really separated from the rest of the group significantly. I do think ahead of Bailey.

[Todd McShay]

Let me ask you this question before we get into the Reese Bailey, because I do want to have that conversation Because I'm not saying it's done.

[Mitch]

No, no, no, no.

[Todd McShay]

But I am still.

[Mitch]

Early days. By the way. We're still in February.

[Todd McShay]

Are you chill with running back Jeremiah Lovett, number one overall?

[Mitch]

I am. I have. For most of the year, I've had him as my number one overall prospect. He is. That's not the case right now. But, like, he's probably. Without looking at it, he's probably three right now. He's outstanding. I mean, he's one of this. I think this is a dangerous word word. And what we do. One of the safest prospects in this draft.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, he's hard to say. Safe and running back.

[Mitch]

I know, I know. He's super talented, though. Manners, the tape, the production, I think the mental makeup of who he is as a human being and. And maybe we'll get some of this later on. I don't know who's in the. I don't know whose names you've got. I don't know. I'm excited to see that, by the way, because I didn't think. I didn't know that you were going to be able to talk about specific guys. I thought that was going to be off the table.

[Todd McShay]

I have a list. I have a list. It's not like we can just start. I have a list that have been approved by agents, and obviously they're not approved if they're not positives, but it's fascinating to hear about that. But go ahead.

[Mitch]

Right. Calm down, Bench. That being said, I, I listen, I. I get it. I don't mind Jeremiah Love being one. I do mind him being a 94. I think that's too high. I think Reese is too high at 94, and I think Bailey's too high at 94. If you're gonna it in my other argument, that would be is Caleb Downs. Why isn't Caleb down?

[Todd McShay]

Did you say Jeremiah? Jeremiah Love is too high at 94?

[Mitch]

Yeah. I think the grades are too hot.

[Todd McShay]

Let me give you some history.

[Mitch]

Okay. Go for it. Would you? What did you give Genty last year?

[Todd McShay]

I give Bijan a 95 and Genti and 94.

[Mitch]

Interesting. Interesting. You're probably too high in Genti, too. Bijan was different man. In my mind, I loved Bijan. I think he's a bigger thing.

[Todd McShay]

The difference between a knife, just so people understand. Like there's not a massive difference.

[Mitch]

No, I know.

[Todd McShay]

No, no, no. There's not a massive difference between a 76 and a 77. In fact.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Pay structure. You're talking a couple hundred Or a couple thousand tens of thousands of dollars. There's a massive difference between a 9 from. In our grading scale between a 94 and a 95 and a 95 and a 96. And it also is in like rookie contract money. It's millions. It's not tens of thousands.

[Scott Goldman]

So.

[Todd McShay]

So go ahead.

[Mitch]

How about this? Why isn't Caleb Downs with those top three?

[Todd McShay]

I think each of those hard with the positions.

[Mitch]

But yeah, go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

No, I know. And we have plenty of time to sort it all out. I think Caleb Downs, if he physically had an elite trait to go along with his elite tape. Do you know what I mean? He's not even worry length, heights. He's not like, he's not a 4, 3. I think he's probably going to run 4. 4. My guess is a run at Ohio.

[Mitch]

But.

[Todd McShay]

But it's not. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas Bailey's elite explosiveness, Arvell Reese is elite in like 6, 4 wingspan, 245 jumps through the roof. Like, we're.

[Mitch]

Yeah, if.

[Todd McShay]

If he works out at the combine, it's going to be just sensational. You know, we're all gonna. Oh, you know, and Jeremiah Love, I think we all agree, like, from the straight line speed to hit the body type to the exploit, like, he's. He's got elite traits.

[Mitch]

Yeah, man. I just have a hard time with it. When you look at the total package and think that Caleb Downs is somehow, you know, a grade behind anyone, anyone in this draft.

[Scott Goldman]

Okay.

[Mitch]

And I don't care. I don't. I hear what you're saying. I understand what you're saying.

[Todd McShay]

You're not wrong.

[Mitch]

Although I'm not. I'm not. I'm not as high or confident in Bailey having that elite trait. I really am not. I, I just. I just. If you're going to have an elite trait, like, let's say he does have an elite trait and explosiveness, I also think he has a flaw in that the frame is. Is a little small and can't wait for Indy to find out a lot of. A lot of this stuff. But yeah, I think you're top five. I, I don't have a problem with it. I just think that down should be with the same group and maybe everyone comes down a point or two.

[Todd McShay]

We're talking about class.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

93. You know, and again, I'm. I am nitpicking a little bit. I'm just telling you how I would have it a little bit different.

[Todd McShay]

Bailey vs. Reese is a tough one, right?

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Todd McShay]

Because I, I've got, I've got Bird in hand with Bailey. I know what he is. I've got the tape, I've got the pass rush win rate, I've got the different moves and I've got a development overtime from Stanford to Texas Tech. With Reese, I recognize he's uniquely talented and I see some, I mean, I go back to talking to Dan on the phone as I'm watching the cut ups of him as just an edge rusher. I think it was against like Illinois and one other team when they started utilizing him even more as an edge this year. And him just plowing over guys and winning with physical traits even though he's not developed as a pass rusher yet.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

But that. Therein lies the rub, right? He's not developed as a pass rusher yet. So you're either looking at it as a. Think how great he's going to be. Can you imagine how great Arvel Reese is going to be when he has a full year in the NFL and he's working just as an edge rusher? If it's the Micah Parsons deal where he does a little bit of both and injuries force him into this role or however it plays out, what he could be in year two as an edge rusher in year three and beyond. But I'm also like, what I see of him as an edge rusher so far is a guy who's, who's unrefined and there's not a lot of tools in that, in that shed. It's not a lot of moves.

[Mitch]

He's got all the tools. He doesn't. He's not.

[Todd McShay]

Sorry. Yeah, yeah.

[Mitch]

He's like an, he's like an artist with the best paint, brushes and paints, but he hasn't learned how to draw yet. Kind of a deal, right? Is that a way of saying it? I don't even know.

[Todd McShay]

Sure.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Get.

[Mitch]

I get into trouble when I try to get into your, your waters of comparing this to things.

[Todd McShay]

But, but no, I think that's very good.

[Mitch]

You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's kind of how you might say it.

[Todd McShay]

I think he's.

[Mitch]

I don't know, I think he's a little farther along than that. I mean he is raw. There's no question about that. He's raw. But I, man, I just, I can't imagine being a team that misses on him. And I just feel like someone's going to, if you take Bailey over him, you're going to look back and say you could have had One of the. One of the best edges in the. In the league. I think that's what I think he's going to be. Maybe he won't. Maybe teams don't see him that way. I do. I just see him as an edge, and I think he's got elite upside there.

[Todd McShay]

I think that's the fear. Right. Because I want to remind people. And I remember standing next to Micah Parsons at Penn State on the field. I remember watching him live and being like, God doesn't make many like this, like human beings like this in the world. He is just so different. He was the 12th overall pick.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

And so, I mean, it was after Covid and he. There was some things that, like, kind of got him to drop a little bit. But it's unbelievable to think that guy went 12th.

[Todd McShay]

And I think it. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I mean, I think. I think people will. If you haven't pegged as your edge rusher and that he's going to have a Parsons like, transition conversion in the NFL, you're scared to death. Not scared to death. Yeah. You're scared to death of not taking him. And so the league, whether it's an over correction or not, but we didn't see an overcorrection with Jalen Walker. What did he. Who's the other team? 13 or 15 to the. The Falcons.

[Mitch]

Falcons. Yeah. I don't know exactly where it was, but it was right in that range.

[Todd McShay]

But he's also. Jaylen Walker isn't as talented or as Parsons. And, you know.

[Mitch]

So 15 for Walker.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, 15 for Walker. So.

[Mitch]

So here's the thing. If you're a. If you're a Penn State fan or a Dallas fan or a Green Bay fan or just a Micah Parsons fan, and you're listening to this goofball and talk about this today, and you're saying to yourself there, like, do they realize how Parsons is? Yes. I mean, we get it. And we're not saying he's the same type of player, by the way. Mike is going to be more explosive and kind of win that way where Orvel's gonna have to win with, like, speed to power and length. There's. There's a different style here.

[Todd McShay]

It's the.

[Mitch]

That we're talking about. But listen, I. I understand it's a huge swing. It's a big swing, but it's the kind of player I see on tape and I know that he kind of had a quiet end of the year that people wanted more of him in the Indiana game, and I get all of that. But I just. I just see it and I'm excited about it. And I just feel like he can be a guy that can get to the quarterback in, in a. Like, consistently. That he can be the, the game ender, the, you know, guys who can seal a win on defense. I think Arvel Reese can be that guy.

[Todd McShay]

The. I wouldn't say it's the. It's the worst case or the. But it. But it is the fallback that. All right, what we. We utilize him as a pass rusher a handful of times a game, but he just never became that.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

Micah Parsons or however. He never became the guy that we hoped he would at edge, but he's still like a Devin Lloyd, you know?

[Mitch]

I mean. Yeah. Yes, please.

[Todd McShay]

You know what I'm saying? So it's. It's not like, it's not like you're taking a tackle at two or three that's gonna become a really good guard for you, you know, or four or

[Mitch]

four last year, right?

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, It took. It took me about like four and a half seconds with dawn, whatever they say.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

Light dons on Marblehead.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

My boy growing up in Swamp's got that one hit home, so. Yeah. So that, that part's interesting, I guess.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

There are three takeaways from the, from this top 50. One is I finally mustered up the. The onions to just put a running back at number one overall, something I literally have never done before. Number two is the Bailey versus Reese discussion is not over. I. I actually started this with you, what, 10 days ago, two weeks ago, instead of. I'm talking to guys in the league and they make a really good point. And I got the quote here somewhere that we don't. What is, what was the quote? I wrote it down. Guys in the league don't make decisions on hope.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Todd McShay]

And there's a little bit more of a hope that he becomes an edge than there. And that's. That's the first conversation I had with somebody, a very high ranking position in the NFL where they're like, I'd take Bailey over Reese. And it got me thinking. So I'm not committed. And I mean, it's. It's not even much. I think I'm not committed.

[Mitch]

A false choice, too. I don't think that Bailey, this is. This lock at number two is going to be a great player in the NFL again. I love the player. I'm excited about it. Wish the best, like, all of those things. But if we're being honest here and talking and comparing him to other Edge Rushers that have come out. I don't see him as this or Reese is a huge projection, but David Bailey, we know we're going to get 10 sacks a year out of this guy.

[Todd McShay]

Really well, we're going to do our, our position deep dives coming up after the game. So we'll, we'll talk a lot next week about the traits and what we're seeing and some of the things we're hearing and we'll have a lot of great intel. And then we'll start after, after the combine with the mock draft top 100. And then we'll really do the deep dives as we've gotten deeper into the positions and our evaluations and our scouting report write ups that we've done. But I do think there's a ve. Two very important conversations that we will have in early to mid March. One is, all right, you've watched every snap that Arvell Reese has taken as an edge rusher. What can he be and where is he? And the other one is you've now watched every snap and you have the workout numbers and everything to go around to go along with David Bailey, stack him up with the Miles Garrett and the Bosa brothers and some, you know, the Abdul Carters, some of the guys that you've had really high grades on. So those are conversations we can continue to have, but let's do it. And then the third part was

[Scott Goldman]

I

[Todd McShay]

mentioned running back one, the break, the breakdown of those two players, Reese and, and, and Bailey. But then the third part was Mendoza at five. I think it's fair. I don't have any hesitation with that. I just, I think he's a damn good quarterback, I think. But, and, and I looked, I had to look back at the grades. That's what started this whole conversation. Caleb and jaden, I had 90 fives, Drake 94, Cam 93. So Mendoza at 92 feels right.

[Mitch]

I think he's as good as Cam. I think he's as good as Cam Ward. I think he's 93.

[Todd McShay]

I, I can't, I can't.

[Mitch]

They're different players. It's not, it's so very different.

[Todd McShay]

Different.

[Mitch]

Yeah. So it's a different thing. I've like just looking at it like Mendoza, I get it that he's not the elite quarterback now. If you start, if you start following along now, if you, if you start to drop the other guys by a point, then I think mend. Mendoza moves up. I think if you're looking at strictly football players, then you're probably Going to go, love, Downs, Mendoza, in that order. I really think that, I think that those are the guys who are, you know, Mendoza so good at what he does. And I think he's. The way he processes and prepares and the mobility and then the accuracy and the backdrop, all of the stuff that we fell in love with during the season. Right. He is, I think maybe he doesn't have like we talked about with some of these other quarterbacks, he doesn't have the ceiling, but he's ready to make the jump. He's ready to go more than a lot of other quarterbacks we've talked about over the course of the year. Right. Caleb Downs is just a hell of a football player. Jeremiah Love is just a hell of a football player. So I think you could put those three, that would be the top three and then you can have the other two after that. That's kind of how I feel about it.

[Todd McShay]

You know, the interesting part with Mendoza, and we'll have plenty of time to break all of this down, but the interesting part to me with Mendoza is

[Scott Goldman]

this

[Todd McShay]

what I love most about Mendoza, the nerdy aspect, the, the commitment like his whole life is football. The chip on his shoulder, the way he studies, the improvement he made in one off season and early in the season with at Indiana with Signetti and that staff. Shanahan, his quarterback coach who now is in Tampa, the brains. He's going to beat you with his brain. Right?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

But here's the effed up part about it. Right. What also concerns me a little bit is. And it's it holistically what concerns me with him, it's not that he's 6, 5 2, 20, live arm, can run really well on a straight line. Not any of those things. But he's not as traitsy as Drake or Jaden or Caleb or Cam. Right. But he's got plenty of tools in the tool bag. What concerns me about him, and it feels like a contradiction because I just told you he's gonna. The best trait he has is his mind, the way he prepares all the things. But what also concerns me about him is, okay, now the bubble wrap comes off and it's not as easy as two by two with that cornerback. I know he can.

[Mitch]

I've seen it too.

[Todd McShay]

I'm going to be a transition. And also if you said what's the one thing, the one thing that scares you the most about Mendoza? And I know every, every geek shouldn't say that, but everyone out there who would like to, who can't scout, who can only Scout with the numbers and all that. There's a, there's a beauty to having both, right. Everyone out there is obsessed with this, with the, the pressure to stack rate rating. Right. And it's not good for a guy. You're talking about this number one overall pick. What I'm concerned about is the why behind it. And I've told you this from. I think it's September we started talking and certainly last year at Cal. But then he made all these improvements and the turnover worthy plays weren't there. But if you really want to know, and it's more than just the sack to pressure or pressure to sack rate ranking or rating, it's. I see a quarterback when he doesn't

[Mitch]

have

[Todd McShay]

the answer from the test, from the first thing he looks at and if pressure's coming simultaneously. There's this combination convergence of two things that happens with Mendoza. One, there's a realization while he can run fast on a straight line, he ain't twitch, right? Daniel, Joe, it's Daniel Jones, it's Tyler Schuck. Both run fast on a straight line but don't have the inside the pocket. Okay. And number two, instinctively, and I don't know if this is baked into him as a human being, I don't know if it can be coached out. I don't know if it will come with time. Instinctively, there's this quarter count of panic that sets in. Eyes drop like that. And I've said this about him for a long time and I have a list, a bullet point list in my notes of all the, of all the plays where I saw that same thing. And it doesn't happen much because usually he has the answer to the test. And even when he doesn't, maybe the pressure isn't coming. But when those two things happen at the same time, there's a little bit of like this before he kind of figures it out. But at that point it might be that interception he threw against. Was it Iowa or Oregon? That fourth quarter interception. I think it was Oregon early in the big six, the pick six. That was an example. Had one against Iowa. Had one against Ohio.

[Mitch]

First. The first Oregon game. Sorry.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, first Oregon. So I'm just saying. Which is interesting because yes, part of that is he doesn't have that, that little short area agility because he's a tall, long legged guy. But it's also part. He hasn't learned to calmly handle those moments. That's the most concise way and the most like attack it right at the core. That is the core of what's concerning to me. Now you're going to hear a lot about, you know, pressure to pressure to sacrate and that that's, that's the result. But I just gave you the exact why

[Mitch]

I hear you. It's, it's an interesting thing too, because you would agree with this too. I know you talked about his greatest strength, but one of his what right up there is his his onions when the game is on the oh, but within a snap.

[Todd McShay]

There's a difference between fourth downs, fourth quarter, all of it.

[Mitch]

There's a difference between situational football and what happens in the lifetime of a snap, in the lifetime of a play that can affect a quarterback. And I will say it affects a lot of quarterbacks, but the great ones are much better at it than Mendoza currently is at this point.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, so that's honestly the probably the it took longer than I want and I'll find a way to say it more concisely as we get closer to the draft. But that is the crux that there is the crux of why I can't give him a grade a little bit higher. Okay, so moving on from that, that's the top five and a lot there. What else stands out to you at this top? Remind people if you want to see you get the top 10, you can see here the graphic that Tucker built. Jeremiah Love, David Bailey, Reese Downs and Mendoza are the top five. As we alluded to then six through 10, you've got receivers and offensive tackles and an edge mixed in. You got Francis Ma? Noa From Miami at 6, Spencer Fano offensive tackle from Utah at 10. Sandwiched in between is edge rusher Reuben Bain from Miami and then the two wide receivers at 89 are Carnell Tate, Ohio State and Makai Lemon from USC. So whether it's in the top 10 or elsewhere, what what else stands you Because I did send mention to top 50 as it stands right now just so everyone understands there may be a tweak or two based off of tape study finalizing that tonight. And then I'm getting with Dan we're going to drop it in the the newsletter, the McShay Report. Google it. Subscribe. You'll get it in your inbox tomorrow morning. The top 50 as we get ready for for leaving on Sunday for the NFL draft next week or the NFL combine in Indianapolis next week.

[Mitch]

Just want to point out that now we know and Fano both have the same grade now. So even though one's at 6, one's a 10, they both have 92 grades. I don't please you. I like. Listen, I really like Maui Noah. I think he's a really good player. It does make me happy that they have the same grade. I think the Fano is the better, the better tackle. And I, I have. And I have. I. I will sleep easy at night saying that and then we'll get into more of it when the time comes. But I think Fano is a. A notably better offensive tackle prospect. It's been interesting to me to see how Maui Noah has been the kind of the darling of draft media and how he's been up front the whole time. And it just doesn't. I think it's because of the Bailey Texas Tech game that happened early in the year. If you think. I think people should go back and watch that tape. Bailey had a really good day, man. And he's. He's made a lot of tackles look bad. It wasn't as bad as I remember when I went back and watched it. I'll say that there's a couple snaps that Fano looked bad. I got some tape on Maui Noah where he looks real bad in pass, bro. And that. That's just the reality of it. So I think they're both really good prospects. Overall. I think it's. It's Fano by whatever. By. By. It's a notable difference to me also say that Makai Lemon is going to turn me in. He's going to turn. He's going to take mention, turn him from draft Santa into draft Grinch because everyone loves Makai Lemon, including this guy. But this is too early. It's too early for a guy that. I mean, we'll see if he's Amon Ross St. Brown size. Amon Ra was just under 6ft and he was built really well. Even though I forget what his weight was exactly. But you saw the way he was built. If he's a Monroe St. Brown body type and height all good. We're all good. I'm with everyone else but we're going to find out Indy how how big this guy is exactly. And it does matter. And I don't care what anyone says. We've been talking about undersized receivers a little bit about like a mecca. Buko we're like, oh, he's not a big receiver. He was six foot. Jsn six foot. Like these guys are six feet. Right around that round again. Right around that range again. St. Brown was just under 6ft. If he's 5 10. I I don't know, man. There's a lot of great receivers that have come out at 5:10 and just not really had the NFL career that we'd hoped for them.

[Todd McShay]

So he's.

[Mitch]

It stinks because his tape's awesome. His tape's just amazing. But and, and the production and the Iowa, all of it. He almost brought them back against Iowa by himself. Like all of that stuff. Or was it Illinois? I'm sorry, it was Illinois. All of that stuff is awesome. But it's, it's. Unfortunately I'm going to be tied to. Everyone's gonna come out and say men, Shakes, Makai, Lemon. I just have a hard time doing it. When you look historically at that position,

[Todd McShay]

you go ahead.

[Mitch]

No, go ahead.

[Todd McShay]

No, I was just gonna say for. Yeah, I was gonna let you take a deep breath. I was just pulling this up on my phone. I do think it's important to note like I, I view this and I don't know whether I put. Yeah, I mean I guess I would put those top four guys. Love Bailey, recent downs, kind of in that top tier. And we'll do the tier rankings based off of historically as we get into April and all that.

[Mitch]

Good.

[Todd McShay]

But if we're just tearing this group, that would be the first tier in this year's draft.

[Mitch]

I'm with you. I agree with that.

[Todd McShay]

Then I think Mendoza is the top of the next tier with Maui Noah and Bain and the two receivers in my opinion, Tate and Lemon and then Fano, all those guys would be in the next tier. Then the interesting part is I would create a third tier with the 91 grades. And if you'd notice it's, it's whether it's like maybe the traits don't match up with the tape or most cases like age or durability. There's something that prevents them from being in that next tier and those guys are. And we don't have a graphic built. And you'll get it all in the McShay report. But this is the last like giving away because some of this could change slightly. Jordan Tyson, the third wide receiver from Arizona State. The two cornerbacks. Tyson obviously with the eight games missed in the last three years and missed a season basically when transferring from Colorado. Then you've got Jermod McCoy didn't play last season at Tennessee because of the, because of the, the knee injury. Mansour Delaine, who transferred Virginia Tech to lsu, did play. Health isn't an issue, but not as traitsy as Jermod McCoy. In some other top corners. Sonny Styles is an off the ball linebacker. Akeem Messador is 25 and change so, yeah, they're all kind of that next tier. For me, that would be that my next group is Tyson McCoy, Delane Styles and Mesadore.

[Mitch]

Yeah. Tyson, you're worried about the durability. Jordan Tyson, the receiver from Arizona State, you're worried about the durability. Yeah. Assuming that's why he's there. Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

I love, I love his tape. I love his tape. And the way, the way he plays, I, I think it, for him to be great, it requires that like attacking, you know, I think I did what I say. He reminds me of a little bit of Stefan Diggs. Like, it is just a, it's a whirlwind of like energy and attacking and like rabid animal, you know?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And he's not small, but that style, just like Stefan Diggs is that injury short. Like, I don't know. It, it worries me. And guys I talk to in the league are a little bit worried, but like not that worried that he's still, what, the 11th overall player on my board.

[Mitch]

But if we're.

[Todd McShay]

When you get buckets of players, and I absolutely think from the tape and the top bucket of wide receivers, and however you view it, it's hard not to have Tate Lemon and Tyson in whatever order in that bucket. So you're looking for differentiators, right? Yeah.

[Mitch]

Separators. I get it. McNeil Warren Emmanuel McNeil Warren from Toledo, you love. He's now at 17. I don't think that's off. I think that's good. I think that's you. That's, that's a guy you've known about for a while and then you finally get down and watch the tape. There's some interesting defensive back stuff outside of McNeil, Warren Avion, Terrell, Clemson, the corner 40, Colton Hood from Tennessee is at, at 37. I think both of those guys have a chance to go in the first round. I think you've ranked them exactly, exactly where they belong. I, I, I watch their tape, I like their tape. I don't see guys that are locks to be first round corners. So that was a couple of things that jumped out to me. Now I will say we're gonna, we're gonna get in. It's hard for me, man. It's hard for me not to talk offensive tackles right now because I'm, I've just kind of come up to breathe a little bit after watching all these guys. But one name I do want to mention because I think if he's not one of the more polarizing prospects, he should be and that's Monroe Freeling from Georgia. Yeah, I'll start, I'll start here. If I give you.

[Todd McShay]

I have, I have Freeling.

[Mitch]

You have freeling at 24. And by the way, I'd be surprised, I would be surprised if he's not, he doesn't go right around there. If not earlier. I will say that if I sent you a highlight tape and you, you would be so freaking excited about this player. I mean start in the. He's first of all in Georgia you got to be a run guy, right? I mean it's a run heavy offense. He, the way he gets out and on zone runs is you very unique for a guy with a 6, 7 frame. They should not, they should not move like that. He is agile, he is quick. He can cover guys up and then work up to the second level. And then you add on to that. He is, I mean when he combo blocks, by the way, in the, in the power run game, he could track linebackers and he's just so athletic that he can get out on these blocks. You want to pull him, he can do all of that. And then on top of that he can lock a guy up. He can latch, lift and drive. I mean that's, that's something that's tough to do with a guy who has that high center of gravity. He can do all that. I will also show you pass sets where you as a offensive line coach would be like, yes please, I can work with that. I can work with this guy's frame, his feet, how explosive he is getting out of the set. Here's the downside. He is a one year starter and there are some. When you're six, seven.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

And you're that lean, it's hard to stay low. And there are times where he gets pushed around in the pass game and the run game. As great as it is at times. As great as it is at times, there's other times where just on the ground too much. We always say this about offensive lineman. How many times is he on the ground? Because he's on the ground, he's not playing with balance. He's not sustaining. He's not doing all the things that he needs to do. He's not getting a good position and there's a. Watching the, the kind of. The low lights of the run game was eye opening of. I know what you can be but you're not close to being there yet. You're not, you're just not there yet. So how long is that going to take? What's that kind of process and the other, the other aspect, just to circle back, I said George is a run heavy offense. He doesn't. He's also one year starter.

[Todd McShay]

He hasn't.

[Mitch]

I want to see more reps and pass sets. They do a lot of bubbles and they do a lot of play action. What's this guy going to look like when it's third and 11 and you got to protect an NFL quarterburs quarterbacks blindside. How long is that process going to take? I really believe we'll get there. I think he's got everything to get there. There's no reason to think he won't. And then let's add another layer. This is the year of the right tackle, right. I'm not convinced. Some of these guys, by the way, Fano, you could say has the athletic profile of a left tackle. He played left tackle early in his career. Is he going to kick back to left tackle? I'm not sure that's the case. There's some damn good right tackles in the NFL and it seems like some of these teams are like I'm perfectly fine keeping a pen.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Right tackle.

[Todd McShay]

Because they're rushing the. The good edge rushers at the right tackles. If the right tackles weakness anyway, it's not what it used to.

[Mitch]

I love, I love the book Moneyball too. I mean not Moneyball, sorry. Blindside. The book Blindside. I don't like the movie. The movie's not like the book. I love the book Blindside. It's a great book. It's a little dated at this point. It's not the same game of where okay, you're going to line your best edge rusher up on that side. I'm going to put my mo. Most athletic offensive lineman at left tackle, yada yada yada. It. It just doesn't work like that with matchups and the way things are. So if you get a great right tackle, could pass block, keep him over there if you don't necessarily have to do that. So keeping that mind, I think the two best left tackles that are playing left tackle last year are Caleb Lomu from Utah and this guy Monroe Freeling. So it's going to come into. If teams are like I don't want to. I'm not necessarily want to get into that game of moving a guy around. They're going to start comparing these two. I like, I like where Lomu's at a little more right now. I think he's more polished but Freely's got a higher upside. That's going to be an interesting Debate for those guys. He should be polarizing for people because some of the tape is bad and some of the tape is great and the tools are awesome.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah. And that position gets drafted by traits. All right, we're, we've, we've got to

[Mitch]

speaker by offensive line range.

[Todd McShay]

Big interview coming up. I do want to mention before we get out of here in the top 15 again in the McShay report. Google it, subscribe. It will be in your inbox tomorrow morning. The top 50 with some, some interesting nuggets. Last year's wide receiver class was disappointing, especially now knowing Travis Hunter's moving a cornerback overall full time. But just looking at this list, I've got nine, 10 receivers in my top 50 that will drop tomorrow morning on Friday morning. And there were just six drafted in the top 50 last year. Five, if you take Hunter out of that. And more importantly to this conversation, the edge class that we raved about last year, that was just awesome. Right. Wound up having a bunch of guys in the top 100. 10 guys in the top 100. I got nine in the top 50 in this year's class. So there might not be an Abdul Carter. If you don't like David Bailey, if you're like mentioned you think he sucks.

[Mitch]

Here we go.

[Todd McShay]

No, here we go. So I want to transition and his work will speak to himself. But we've got Scott Goldman from aiq. It's athletic intelligence quotient, I believe is how you say, I think that's right, aiq. And I'll give him, I'll let him do the bona fides. But like five different white pages which are like the gold standard. It's like one in the gold medal in terms of like journal journals. And the only test we've heard, like the what is the S2 cognition test, was a big topic of conversation with the Brock Purdy and all that. This is this guy and his company. AIQ is the only one recognized by the NFL. Okay. So they are the foremost authority when it comes to the psychological testing that's going on. And he'll explain this more. It's not just about like, oh, this guy's wicked smart. This guy's an idiot. You know, it's, it's even the guys that don't test well. It's then providing a plan for both the player and for the team on what he does well, doesn't do well, what he can work on to improve. Fascinating stuff. Essentially, this is what I found. Like quickly identify talent with their, with their, their testing. Right. To ensure the fit into your system. How does it fit what you're looking for? Tell us what you're looking for. The 10, I think it's 10 NFL clients and we'll tell you how he fits that and then more informed decisions in the heat of the moment. To me, why wouldn't you? I told him in my private conversation. We'll talk about it.

[Mitch]

I.

[Todd McShay]

If I was a team, I'd say, how much are you charging? That I'll pay 32 times that. So that we're the only ones to get this information, or at least you can. Only one. One in our division. Something like that. But anyway, Scott Goldman is next with aiq and this is going to be a fascinating conversation.

[Scott Goldman]

Toogood and Co Coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk, and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers. Make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.

[Todd McShay]

And there he is. How you doing, Scott? I'm good.

[Scott Goldman]

How are you?

[Todd McShay]

Good, man.

[Mitch]

I.

[Todd McShay]

We've been worried about this. Right. We're men and I are used to, to not being the smartest guy in the room as we're. And we're certain we're not any longer, but also worried that maybe you would be figuring out who we are and doing a psychological profile on who, who we are in just a few minutes here. So we're, we're afraid of that. But I do, and I shared with the audience before, before you came on like, the importance of what you're doing and how much stock is put into it by general managers and, and the NFL community and a talent evaluation and how much like I value what it is that you're doing, but I do want to give you an opportunity. Right. Elevator pitch. I'm a general manager and owner of an NFL team. Tell me a little bit about the background, what it is you guys are doing and how it is that you've come to the place that you are where you're as integral a part of this draft space and roster building space for NFL teams as you've become.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, so I think my elevator pitch really starts with a level of compassion. I think what GMs and decision makers have to do is really hard because I think human beings are very complex. So if I were to Kind of simplify the process. I think an athletic profile, if it's to be comprehensive, consists of four domains. You've got your, your physical attributes. Are they big, are they strong, are they fast? You've got their experience attributes, you know, grabbing a linebacker from Alabama kind of thing. You know, what kind of system they're used to and what they're informed about. Then you've got your personality. You know, are they locker room glue guys or are they poison or toxic? And then the final bucket is intelligence. And that's what we do, is we capture intelligence, which is about processing speed and decision making and reaction time. And if you think of sports as this unsolvable puzzle, it's what are the things between your ears that help you navigate that space on the field and in installs?

[Todd McShay]

I know Steve's gonna jump in. I want to ask you this real quickly though, because there's been about a lot of like, publicity about like the S2 cognition, I think is another test. And it would like the Brock Purdy situation and all that. And there's some other tests that, that have been utilized, like the, the player assessment test, the Pat, take the floor here. Not necessarily as much about, like, bragging on why you guys are the best, but a little bit of credentials. I know, like the white pages and, and the NFL and how they view your relationship with the NFL. What is it that separates what you're doing IQ from some of the others that may have gotten some, some real publicity in over the recent years?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, I mean, where I give those other entities some credit in the business aspect of what they're doing, we've always been more about the fidelity of what we're doing. We don't have a publicity department or a team or anything like that. We're just a couple of guys trying to help. Where I think we stand out is twofold. One is in product and the other is in service. So you mentioned it. We took a very scientific approach. We have now five papers that are published in peer reviewed academic journals, which is really hard to do. None of the other vendors have one. We actually have five. And three of them show significant correlation with on field performance in the NFL. The other two ones in the NBA and one's in Major League Baseball with the NFL ones. We're talking about specific metrics with how it relates to quarterback performance. You know, like big, big throw, turnover potential, rushing yards, passing, TDs, I mean, all sorts of stuff on the defensive side of the ball. Things like tackles for losses, turnovers, sacks, and then also like things like pre snap penalties with offensive linemen. So pretty significant science. You mentioned the other part of it, which was, you know, last year the NFL did do an audit, and we were the only assessment tool to be approved by the NFL. And I think they approved us off of two things. One, the science that we have backing what we're doing, and two, the way that we interact with players. I've been in a building for over 28 years, working with elite college football programs, as well as working in the NFL and NBA space. And so I just. I tend to think of players as human beings, which is what they are. And I know that they're somebody's son, they're somebody's friend. So when we interact with the players, like, even when it comes to gathering the data, we give them a copy of the report, we go over it with them, we talk about how we emphasize development and goodness of fit. You know, one of the things I always like to talk about with the players is, and you know this as much as anyone, the secret right isn't the first contract. Like, the first contract's exciting, the guaranteed money is exciting. But it's the same second contract that gets you pension and a real payday. And when you think about the average length of an NFL career is 2.7 years, helping extend people's careers. And so that's a big part of what we focus on is not just in the idea of being predictive, which, again, if you can predict, like, we should stop things like murders and terrorist activity and stuff. Like, human beings, like I said, are really complicated. But what you can do is you can really think about relationship dynamics and especially with how people process information. So if I were to kind of summarize that into a talking point, it would be this, I think in the draft process and the free agency process, what people get excited about when they get excited about the player. Let's just make up a random. We'll call him Rod McShay. Like, Rod McShay is on our draft board, and we're super excited about the

[Mitch]

hell of a player.

[Todd McShay]

I love it.

[Mitch]

I love it.

[Scott Goldman]

He's got game speed, right? But, like, what we get excited about Rod, is actually his production, but we think that's a one to one ratio. And I'm a big believer that production is actually a more complicated formula, which is player times environment. So when you look at like, say, the college level, and let's just take the University of Indiana and you go, oh, we're going to get Rod McShay the starting tight end for the University of Indiana because he produced all of this stuff. However, our system at the pro level is very different than what Indiana is doing and that becomes an issue. We believe at the AIQ that well informed people make well informed decisions and that the goodness of faith fit is key. So when we talk about our findings, when we give a report to a team, we stay with that team and with that player through the entire phase of their career. So it's not just about selection, it's also about development and then analytics and just putting people in situations and positions of success.

[Mitch]

First of all, congratulations. That is, that, that is remarkable and it's worth noting. But what is, what is the sausage making look like here? What does the collection of data look like? Is it. I'm guessing it's not a number two pencil in a classroom like me and McShay growing up. Is it a. Do you give them each an iPad and they have to touch like what does the actual test look like? I guess the other, the other part of that would be how many, how many athletes have you tested? I guess the football, but maybe across the board. I don't know whether that's. It's actually sports specific or a lot of these things are all correlated and relate regardless of the sport.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, great question. And it gives us a chance to kind of go in depth about, like you said, how the sausage is made. My partner, Jim Bowman and I, we spent 15 years before we even brought this to market. And we started with the concept that sports is an unsolvable puzzle that's constantly mutating. So we didn't just look at sports, we also looked at other environments that have that. So we looked at military, firefighters, police officers, first responders. So when you think about like a firefighter who kicks a door down and then has to scan for threats and danger as well as people to save, it's very similar to a quarterback who's approaching the line and trying to identify defensive coverage in pre snap reads. So we said sports is this constantly evolving puzzle. What are the aspects of intelligence that can help someone navigate that best? We followed, and this is where things get a little nerdy. We followed the American Psychological Association's ethical guidelines for test construction, and we used something called the Cattell Horn Carroll theory of intelligence. If you've ever been tested for giftedness or a learning disability, or if you've had a child that's been tested for giftedness or learning, I'm willing to promise you that there's a high percentage that it was based off that theory of intelligence, we took old wine and brought it to a new world. You asked about our database. Our database is over 15,000 professional athletes across all 5 sports in North America, as well as European soccer teams and Australian teams like Australian Rules Football, Australian Rugby. When we designed it, we designed it to be purposely international because we wanted to ethically say that we were capturing information that a kid from rural Miami, sorry, urban Miami and rural Iowa would both be considered an equal opportunity when it came to understanding how they process the game. You ask. It's done on an iPad, takes about 30 to 35 minutes, and it's very interactive. It is not language based, it's not paper and pencil. So sometimes I talk about like, if you want to know how fast a guy is, we have them engage at the combine where they run that 40. Now, you can make an argument about straight line speed and all of that kind of stuff, but the reality is you're not asking them how fast they are. You're actually running them through a speed gauntlet. Similarly, we're not asking you how intelligent you are. We're putting you through a series of tasks that look kind of like Candy Crush or some of those other kinds of games that you can download on your app, download on your phone. And so we're engaging them and we're watching how they process. And what we found is a lot of how they process on our app, based off that CHC theory, is how they translate it and bring it to the field.

[Mitch]

So if I'm one of these smart GMs and I say I need AIQ to come help me evaluate this draft class, what kind of a product am I getting at the end of this process? What am I taking from your company that's going to help me draft the right product player?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. So you get a couple of things. One is you get a report, and the report is very. On every prospect, on every prospect that takes the aiq. Yeah. Right now we have, I believe it's, we're around 360 for this year's draft class and that we're still pretty early in the process. We generally get anywhere between 90 to 95% of the draft class.

[Mitch]

So where do you administrate? I just assumed that you would be administering the test in Indianapolis. You've already done a lot of these.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, I mean, so we'll go to training facilities because we try to get, we try to create an environment that's optimal for the player. We'll ship them an iPad and. Well, and again, it really Goes back to our concept is I've never met a team that wants to fail. I've never met a player that wants to fail. But failure occurs all the time because of that bad fit. So the only thing worse than no data is bad data. So we try to capture the AIQ scores in optimal environments. We'll go to training facilities, we'll ship an iPad so that they can take it in the comforts of their own home. We go over it with them virtually. So that way if they have any questions, we can help them take it and understand it and really kind of go along the process with them. So going back to what a smart jam. I like the fact that you said it was a smart jam. What a GM gets, he gets a report, but he also gets a full service of us. I get calls all the time and even throughout the season where a coach or a GM will go, hey, can you just give me a quick synopsis on, you know, player X or player Y? We're thinking about moving him from, you know, maybe from being a tight end to a slot receiver or, you know, we're thinking about seeing, like with this guard play, you know, this offensive guard, can we have him play center? You know, those kinds of things. We also have something new that we call the AIQ plus because we're starting to expand in international and I love my wife and I think she would kill me because of how I keep my cell phone close. We created this thing called the AIQ plus which we fed it over 297 documents on sports specific intelligence theory. Then we gave it all of our AIQ data. And then again, like I mentioned, I've been working with NFL teams since 2012 personally. So I leveraged some of my relationships with some of the coaches and front office folks that I consider to be friends and colleagues. And they even gave us some playbooks, some NFL playbooks. So we taught it all of it. It was like NEO from the Matrix. It was like two second download. And it was I know, kung fu kind of thing. And so what was neat was, you can now ask it. Like I did this the other day just as a thought exercise. Do you remember, I think it was 2020. Noah Font and TJ Hawkinson, right? Yes. Both came from Iowa, different kind of athletic profiles. So I just asked the AIQ plus to compare these two guys based off their AIQ score. And it was amazing because the AIQ plus summarize, TJ Hawkinson would be a good fit for this style of offense, whereas Noah Font would be much Better fit for another style of offense. It broke that stuff down, and I was sharing that with a gm and he said, yeah, but it has all that history. It has, you know, the last six years of playing time. I go, the AIQ plus doesn't get that information. Like, it's not taught that what it told me a couple days ago is exactly what it would have said on. On draft day.

[Todd McShay]

That's fascinating.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So. And let's circle back, because I know there's. There's services like beyond just preparing for the draft, but I do want to get into this, and I think this is where the audience will really start to connect. Like my. If you were going off of rookie year, and I use that as a caveat because. And I'm not hoping for anyone's failure, but if you're going off of rookie year, I can't think two players that I missed on more than Teta McMillan and Carson Swinger and Tet. McMillan was probably the more fascinating one. I just was a little bit lower on. On Schinger, off the ball, linebacker, all that stuff. And the traits weren't up to the level where I thought he was being talked about being drafted with Teto and McMillan. I. I had a lot of sources and it was like, yeah, not practicing hard. Attention to detail I saw on tape, but also heard, you know, just wasn't engaged with all these negative things. And I saw it and taped, kind of backed it up and I was worried about what are you getting kind of the human being stuff and guessing off of tape and conversations.

[Mitch]

What did you.

[Todd McShay]

What did AIQ tell you about TMAC and. And what. What he projected and maybe some of the reasons why I heard some of the things that. And the tape was a lot better in 2023 than it was in 2024 left and all the different things. What. What were you armed with and bringing to general managers about Teteroa McMillan.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. So just for point of clarity, before we talk about T, Mac and Carson, like, please know that we do not disclose information publicly unless we have the player and. Or the agent's permission.

[Todd McShay]

Yes, I should have mentioned that.

[Scott Goldman]

Yep. No, it's. It's totally cool. I just. I always want to be respectful of. Of the process and the people that are involved. These are real human beings, and. Absolutely, I want to note that. But what's nice is both of those individuals are wonderful AIQ stories before the draft. One of the things that we do as an internal exercise is we kind of highlight people that we think have some Special qualities and some real hidden gem kind of mechanisms. And both of those gentlemen were people that we thought. And to your point, I think you weren't the only one who was critical of TMAC and for Carson. And they're kind of interesting stories. So I worked at the University of Michigan for four years under the Jim Harbaugh staff and Jed Fish. Coach Fish was one of the people that I had a chance to work with. I got to learn and understand how much he valued multiple option decision tree routes.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Scott Goldman]

And that's pretty complicated. And T. Mac's AIQ profile suggests that he is perfectly suited for that kind of like pre snap read, be on the same page with your, with your quarterback and make these kinds of like adjustments at the line of scrimmage. And so I think he was doing that really, really well with Coach Fish. Coach Fish leaves go to Washington. Right. T. Mac has to make a calibration adjustment. Maybe there were some things that were going on there. But what was interesting was we had a couple of GMs that also kind of talked about there was some uncertainty, like the film didn't quite give us the answer there. And I just said, look, you know, his cognitive profile, his ability to scan, his ability like his catch radius, his ability to process his catch radius like high point catches and to kind of go get the ball. Like there are aspects of what a wide receiver does that's physical in nature, but then there's also aspects of what a wide receiver does that's very intellectual. And high catch radius is about timing and processing. And his data suggested that he'd be really good at that. So not only was he projecting as a really good route runner and a really good pre snap read kind of guy. So I think you have a really sophisticated audience. So if I get a little too simplified, I apologize. But like when you imagine the wide receiver before the line of script, you know, before the play starts, he's at that line of scrimmage, he's got to identify what, that, you know, what the defensive coverage is. First and foremost. T. Mac has some cognitive abilities that suggest that would come easier for him than other people. Then it becomes, all right, now I got to make a decision which route to run, make sure the wide quarterback's on the same page. Then I go run that route. Now all of a sudden I gotta adjust to lifetime stuff. So like think about like a rub or a pick or, you know, just getting lost in the wash where now all of a sudden you got to recalibrate your route. That that was Also something kind of like post snap intelligence. He possessed a really strong and superior scores in. So then, and then you look at like just, you know, looking for the ball, like, you know, balls released while you're still making your moves and then you break and the ball's halfway there. How good's your reaction time when you have less time to calibrate and adjust?

[Todd McShay]

And you learned all of this from a Candy Crush type?

[Mitch]

From slicing fruit on an iPad?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, that's right. We sliced some fruit too. It wasn't just Candy Crush, but.

[Todd McShay]

No, but you got to admit it's a little mind blowing, right? Like you can sit down for a 35 minute test and say that his what? What? Not only, like I could understand, like, hey, he's smarter than these other guys or he, he can adjust to something. But like, so to drill down that much from a 35 minute test of like pre snap, post snap adjustments, catch radius, like reaction skills, that's pretty wild to me, man.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, Well, I think what you're seeing is for me, I've been in this space for 28 years as a sports psychologist that's been embedded with teams. And then you take 25 years of Jim and myself constructing this thing and perfecting it and dialoguing with coaches and front office folks, like you're watching a lot of time and effort in really trying to understand again from that four buckets. We're just really trying to understand that. That intelligence bucket to the highest degree in fidelity.

[Todd McShay]

And what about Schlesinger? What made him, him. What made you so confident in what he was going to be in the NFL?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, I mean, like, where do I start? I mean, it was interesting because his profile was so dynamic. It had to do with things like pursuit angles and making adjustments and tackles for losses and being able to kind of like absorb and shed a block. So sometimes as you know, like what you need to do is you have to have like gap assignments and stuff. So you know, a linebacker who's trying to read and then you have other aspects to it too. So here's a mechanism, right? Like let's say it's a gadget play or a gimmick play. So now all of a sudden personnel is coming out. One of the things that we highlighted was Carson's cognitive profile suggest that he could identify if a specialty package were to come in and could alert the other teammates. His profile actually really suggests he'd be a great green dot guy. And for those that don't know what a green dot is, it's you know, it's the dude that. That is the defensive play caller. So what we were saying was, like, even before the play starts, we thought Carson would be really good at alerting his teammates. Like, hey, there's a sub package coming in. Hey, there's kind of something's going on. Alert, alert, alert. And then when the play starts, he would start to kind of anticipate. You know, it's funny because. And you all know this, the NFL is such a game of, like, stud. It's a. It's a student's game. That's what I think. People seem to forget that they focus sometimes so much on how big and strong and fast these guys are that they forget. Like. Like when you can figure out, like a running back whose legs are just striated, this much suggests that he's going to go out and receive a pass versus get a handoff. Carson can do that. Like, he can. He can scan and pick up those kinds of minute details. That's what the AIQ indicated to us. That said that even though he might not be as big or as strong as some of the other linebackers, kind of what you were pointing out, Todd, he could compensate with his intellectual capabilities and offset some of that. So what's interesting, right, with both TMAC and Carson, like, TMAC was a volleyball player in high school. Right. Carson was a walk on. These were folks that people were kind of not quite recognizing what they were capable of. And again, I think cars have memory serves like he only started 10 games.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. You know, and so the monster numbers. But yeah, yeah, and people are going, well, is that legit? And why wasn't he there all along? Like, what's with the spike? Like, I just think the AIQ provides information that helps you go, I think I can explain why he's doing what he's doing and how he's able to do it and then how he can do it for us. And that's when things get really cool.

[Todd McShay]

Two of the most intellectually stimulating hours of my life. I've been multiple hours with one, but sitting down with Chris Spielman, linebacker, and sitting down with Teddy Bruski, linebacker, and watching tape with them and thinking I knew what watching tape was, and then seeing, like, you're talking about, like the pinky. He moves his pinky or his. He's got like, they would pick up on a tendency from one player or four players or whatever it was. And. And so much of what they did in the NFL, which was like elite level greatness, was Based off, yeah, they're physically talented and all that, but there are a lot of other guys that were as talented or more talented. It was here in the processing. So I don't know. This stuff is fascinating to me. I want to spin it forward.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah.

[Todd McShay]

And again to reiterate your, your point earlier, you four, four players that you have tested in this year's draft class and I think this is where our audience would really be kind of dialed in that, that gave you permission to share their, their results. I want, I want to start with a, one of the most intriguing, if not the most intriguing player in the entire draft in Arvell Reese. Because not like the physical. It doesn't take a super scout to figure out six four wingspan, 245 runs. You know, the traits are amazing. But as we're now looking at and say, you know what, he may not be a, an off ball linebacker or maybe he'll be in a hybrid role or maybe he'll be an edge. Does he have the ability to make that transition? After you tested Arville Reese and we haven't talked about this, I have no idea what you're going to say about these four players. What is it that you found with Arvel Reese that would be important for NFL general managers sitting there at pick two like the New York jets or three with the Cardinals? What is it that, that they would want to know?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, well, can I take a slightly macro approach for a sec?

[Todd McShay]

Sure.

[Scott Goldman]

And then we'll go micro. I had the, I had the pleasure of working with Coach Patricia for about four years. He is a genius and a heck of an educator. And his offensive schemes are really, I'm sorry, his defensive schemes are really complicated. I mean they're just, they're cool to watch. I mean he is, he, he is a master of his craft.

[Todd McShay]

Agreed.

[Scott Goldman]

Looking at this year's Ohio State's defense and having the ability to analyze their core defensive players because we have almost all of their players, but we've got their core right now like Caleb down Jones, etc. Sonny Styles Arvill. I can see now how good that defense was. And one of the mechanisms of it was how they could disguise their coverage, how they could really go and attack and they could do all these things. And it's interesting, right, because some of what I'm hearing as far as chat around the NFL as a criticism about Arvo Reese is like, well, is he this or is he that? And the fact that Coach Patricia used him in both situations successfully is kind of where I'm getting at with Arvo Reese. So that's the macro as you go. Wow. Look at how coach Patricia used this, this really intelligent group of of players to play with each other and off of each other in super cool ways.

[Mitch]

Eight.

[Todd McShay]

Eight of which weren't starters because eight of them from a year, the year prior got drafted. And so to be able to come in and teach all of this high level stuff, like you said, he's not just a master and like the X's and O's, but the teaching of it. But also I think you're alluding to, to have the individuals that can pick it up. We're talking about like limited time, one off season. And to pick it up to the level where they had the best defense in all of college football this year is pretty wild.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. And like, you just kind of remind me of something that coach Signetti said right? Where he was like, hey, short practices makes less injuries. And you look at like again, the offensive line. So Indiana offensive line of Indiana, highly intelligent group. I mean, their AIQ scores we have. And you just watch, not only like when it comes to making decisions like zone blocking schemes versus just straight man or a guard that can pull, but just watching how that unit across the board is highly intelligent. You see how they are essentially kind of a brick wall. So again, sometimes the way that I think about the NFL and this kind of offense versus defense is like the offensive line is a brick wall and the defensive player is a cannonball. So the offensive line can't have a weak link. Right. They all have to be strong. But a defensive player can line up anywhere and try to break that wall and break through it.

[Todd McShay]

Yeah.

[Scott Goldman]

Excuse me. So when you look at the chess aspects, Arvell Reese and what coach Precious was doing was this almost like positionless versatility. Kind of like the stuff that Micah Parsons has been doing for the last couple years. Or if you look at like some of Dan Quinn's defense, Coach Quinn in the Commanders, like you can be really creative with a player. So the first thing that stands out to me about, about Arvo Reese, his versatility and his ability to handle the responsibilities of multiple attacking points. And therefore you can line him up in a lot of different places and spaces versus other guys might be better suited as almost like a C ball, hit ball. Let's just line them up, you know, put your fingers in the dirt and go get them. Like Arvo Reese, like, you can disguise a lot of stuff and you can do a lot of stunts and twists and you can kind of do some I. And then you think about like, you know, sometimes you have to take guys off on third down because it's like it's. You just become too predictable. If it's a C ball, hit ball kind of guy, you're too predictable. But like, his data suggests that he could be like a really versatile third down where he could, he could drop into coverage. He can attack a rushing play as well as go after the ball carrier. His scores also suggest. Because that's one of the things we found was sacks, TFLs and turnovers. His scores align with that metric that suggests he's going to have success in those three statistical categories.

[Todd McShay]

That's wild.

[Mitch]

One of my favorite players in this class is Chris Johnson, the corner from San Diego State. Todd said you might have something on him.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Todd McShay]

So you've been dying to ask that question since. Yeah, when I saw that name come up, I'm like, oh, boy, here we go.

[Scott Goldman]

So a couple of aspects of the things that we measure are things like field awareness and field vision, and he has superior aspects in both of those. So if he gets lost, he gets turned around, or if he gets kind of bumped with some rubs or some pick plays, he's able to calibrate and adjust to that and then can pursue at a really efficient way. It's super cool. And then it becomes sort of like, he's an interesting one, right, because it's sort of like, do you put him in the slot or do you put him outside? I think he could be successful in both. In fact, I asked that of our AIQ plus because there was a front office person who was curious about him and I was like, yeah, let's see what. And sure enough, it said he has the cognitive profile that suggests he could fit the slot or he could be outside. Now, I don't know about his physical abilities and limitations there, but from an intellectual standpoint, he could survive in both the inside or outside, which again, makes, makes it really neat if you wanted to do some, some funky stuff on defense to try to confuse, to confuse the quarterback.

[Mitch]

What's interesting about that to me is. No, this is, this excites me because watching his tape, I thought that's where he stood out from a lot of different corners, is that when he has his back to the quarterback, he doesn't panic. He has a feel for it. He knows how to locate the ball. He's obviously a playmaker. It's. It's something, you know, you see it from your, your results. I see it on tape. I Love that those things kind of

[Scott Goldman]

link well and just to pull on that thread because that's a cool moment. I feel like when you have two independent sources of information that have alignment, then you have a lot more confidence and conviction in what you see and believe. And when those things are misaligned, it doesn't mean either one's wrong. It just means there's some other factor that's influencing the situation and we should further explore that.

[Todd McShay]

Well, it's like the TMAC thing was, was providing a why, right? Potentially a why. Like maybe he wasn't challenged without Jed Fish there. Maybe, maybe it wasn't an offense that like forced him to utilize what his strengths are. And with Chris Johnson, it's that I'm getting support, like you said, supporting what I'm seeing on tape. And also it's worth mentioning like Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, two of the greatest all time defensive minds and defensive backs and like their biggest things are when the ball's in the air, you know, what separates an average or a good from a great is no panic when the ball's in the air, you know. And so to hear that your testing is backing what, what we're seeing on tape with Chris Johnson makes me want to go change my top 50 right now. You know,

[Scott Goldman]

there's a lot of, there's a lot of things to take into consideration and this is just one piece of the puzzle for sure.

[Todd McShay]

Eli Stowers, the tight end from Vanderbilt's, interesting because he's not the biggest. I don't think he's going to be the fastest in Indy next week, but my gosh, he just produces and he seems to find ways to uncover

[Scott Goldman]

when

[Todd McShay]

I watch him like after the catch, just the vision. There's just a lot of cool things with him. In a tight end class that has the most tight ends in recent history brought into to Indianapolis. He's, I think he might be tight end too in this class behind Kenyan Sadiq from, from Oregon. What did, what did you get from your, your testing from at AIQ on Eli Stowers?

[Scott Goldman]

Well, if I can take us, I promise I'll come back. But a slight pivot. One of the NFL teams that we've been working with for years gave us a tip where they said, you know, when we look at your white papers, you, you kept the position group regardless of draft status, which is amazing that we found significance because the way I would explain that is like first rounders are unbelievably physically gifted in the NFL. So to say that we didn't pull them out, make them a special group and found all this significance. What this team, what this analytics person for this team said to us, which was unbelievably helpful, is he said, you know, if you separate the position group by draft rounds, you're going to see the AIQ has even more impact. So we started to do that just for funsies. Right, Right. So if, and just, just think about it like practically, like for example, you don't see a lot of offensive tackles getting taken in the fourth or fifth round. You know, one, there's just not that many of them and the good ones are gone fast.

[Todd McShay]

Yep.

[Scott Goldman]

So to kind of look and take into consideration, well, what kind of offensive tackle do you need in the fourth round is, is it's already a long shot, just statistically speaking. But. And this is what reminded me of this, is you talking about a tight end. We're starting to find like day two, day three, guys like tight ends that have really good, what we call spatial awareness, which is knowing where you are in relation to teammates, opponents, where you are on the field, seems to kind of have this standout. So to your point, and going back to Eli, it's amazing because his processing speed, his decision making, his ability to find the holes in the coverage is really dynamic and that's what stood out with the aiq. We're now engaging in this experiment, an exercise where we're separating by position and by rounds and looking for these hidden gems. If you think about it, and this is something for like your audience, if you can get a starter from a fourth round, that organization is saving themselves somewhere between five and eight million dollars a year. And over a four year span, it's a multiplier. Right. And that cap space can go to free agents, it can go to fill other holes. So I think what we figured out was there are certain aspects of the AI IQ that trend really well with different positions. So like a tight end really needs to sit in the zone, needs to have that pre snap read. I mean, you know, tight end position is almost as complicated as the quarterback in regards to their responsibility because they have to block, they have to catch, they have to do all that. Right. So it just becomes a neat mechanism where we're starting to figure out specific aspects of the AIQ that really match with different positions, both on the offense and defensive side of the ball.

[Todd McShay]

All right, last one. Here's a linebacker like Schlesinger a year ago, Jake Galde, who's one of the, you know, physically, he's A thumper. He's a big, powerful dude. Highly rated coming into the year. You know, he's kind of been a steady guy, but plays at Cincinnati. Maybe nationally. People don't know him as well, but very much a day two prospect. What do you, what do you have on Galde?

[Scott Goldman]

It's fun. It's like you're, you're, you're kind of like you're hitting all of our greatest hits. So.

[Todd McShay]

So accidentally, I promise.

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. He's another one who I think is a really dynamic profile. I mean, his ability to download a playbook so it becomes interesting. Right? You can have a really thick playbook and take a regular amount of time to absorb it. You could take a light playbook and learn it fairly quickly. He actually can take a big playbook and learn it quickly, which I think is a really unique skill set. So one of the things that really stands out about his scores was his ability to absorb information. One of the things that I find that happens in installs is when it's a really important detail, the coach will over talk instead of just making their point. Moving on, the coach goes, let me tell you about this point. Let me tell you about this point. Let me tell you about this point. One of the things that's nice is we could go to the team that drafts this guy, drafts Jacob and we can say, hey, if you tell him once and he says, I got it, coach, you can trust that and move on. That'll save you time, it'll save you attention, it'll save his frustration. And you can put your time and attention to some other players that might need more of those reps. Similarly, you can ask him to start to teach some of the other rookies or some of the other people in the position group.

[Todd McShay]

Jeez, this is fascinating, man. Like I just a. I don't know how every team like it would be. The first thing if I took a GM job is to make sure that I had access to this kind of information because why wouldn't you want it? You know? And second of all, to hear the detail and, and even beyond like are they're drafted now, if you have a client, you're then continuing to work with that organization on. All right, this is happening. This is bothering us solutions, right?

[Scott Goldman]

Yeah. So first of all, I hope you do become it. After hearing you say how much you want to use this, I really hope you do become a GM someday. And, and I hope it's one of the teams that we're not.

[Todd McShay]

I enjoy working with men. Look at this Beautiful man with his beard. How can I believe him?

[Scott Goldman]

He definitely does not have a face for radio that we can say, no question.

[Mitch]

Thank you.

[Scott Goldman]

You're welcome. But going back to it is, if you think about this is more than just a number, this is more than just a one and done moment, that this is really what we've done and what we've tried to do is we've tried to be a resource through the whole year from onboarding a player to acclimating and figuring out how to use them in the best possible situations and then continuing to develop as things calibrate and adjust. You know, there was a team that won a Super bowl recently and their offensive line coach would bring me out and we would put their AIQ profiles up in formation, you know, center guards, tackles, and you go, okay, like how do these guys work together? If this one gets injured, which one of these guys that are backups would be best suited here? And he, you know, after they won the super bowl, he circled back and said, look, that was, that exercise was integral to what we were doing with a lot of our keeping our offensive line intact.

[Todd McShay]

That's wild. I think it's a perfect way for us to wrap this up. Scott, I, I can't thank you enough for taking time. I know how busy you are right now and I know our audience will appreciate the, our whole goal is to, I did 20 years with the big network and 90 second hits on. He ran to this 40. You know, like there's so much more to this entire process and I think you were able to in, in a short period of time, give everyone an understanding of what's going on. As I shared with Steve, I always knew that there was, you know, the interview process and, and some teams had psychologists and all that until I, when, when Bill Polian left the Colts six time executive of the year, when we got to just talking about his process and, and he really like for a long time explained how important their process was with psychology and how they utilized it. I didn't quite have an understanding and now to see where it's, it's growing and the, the levels and the intricacies and the detail that you at AIQ have been able to provide is just, it's fascinating to me. So I wish you all the best of luck. I'm going to be texting you constantly about every single player I watch to get confirmation or to get answers and I hope eventually you'll have to block me, but that's fine. You wouldn't be the first.

[Scott Goldman]

There will be no blocking. Look, this has been a really enjoyable experience. Both of you are phenomenal interviewers. I mean, just to bring it full circle, right? If what we really want is production and that's player times environment, I can't thank you both enough for creating such a wonderful environment that gave us a chance to really talk about this, because I think the AIQ is complex. So I can't thank you both enough for an opportunity to help teach about how we can help players and teams.

[Mitch]

We passed the test.

[Todd McShay]

We did. We did. I feel good about it, Mitch, and I'm sure this won't be the last time we come knocking. So we'll talk to you again soon. Scott.

[Scott Goldman]

Sounds good.

[Mitch]

Thanks, Scott.

[Scott Goldman]

Thank you so much.

[Todd McShay]

Must be 21 and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 1-800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[Scott Goldman]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today while I'm letting go of the worry of that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class, I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Todd McShay]

1-800-contacts lifelock.

[Mitch]

How can I help?

[Scott Goldman]

The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Mitch]

One in four taxpaying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud.

[Scott Goldman]

What do I do? My refund, though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry.

[Mitch]

I can fix this. Lifelock fixes identity theft, guaranteed, and gets your money back with up to $3 million in coverage.

[Scott Goldman]

I'm so relieved.

[Mitch]

No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud. Paying American.

[Todd McShay]

Not anymore.

[Mitch]

Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.