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The McShay Show
Todd’s Top 150 Big Board! Risers, Fallers, Team Fits, and More. Plus, a Linebacker Deep Dive.
01:29:45
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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
It's the McShay show presented by FanDuel. It's our time. It's officially NFL Draft season and you can get in on all the action with FanDuel. FanDuel has lots of ways to bet on the draft, like pick, position, team to draft a player, exact order, top five and 10 picks, and so much more. When you win, you get paid instantly. FanDuel always has exclusive offers. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. So download FanDuel Sportsbook app today and make every moment more during the NFL Draft, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1800 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by no Bull. Every day is an opportunity to grow stronger, especially when you've got Best in Class award winning footwear backing you up. No Bull is a footwear brand for training and for daily life built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And get this exclusive for the McShay show listeners. No is offering 30% off your order. Visit nollproject.com mcshay for 30% off your entire order. That's N O B U L L P r o j ct.com McShay for 30% off. Big show. Top 150 is out now on the McShay Report. We got a lot to get to, including our position group deep dive on linebackers. But first we're going to tear into my updated rankings and unpack some of the recent intel gathering. Where will Shador fall, Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter for the Browns at 2? Could an old familiar name reemerge in the top five? And which Georgia pass rusher is getting a lot of love from personnel folks that I've been talking to in the league? Just 21 days until the NFL draft and I'm feeling it. Men. You good?
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Mensch
I'm good man.
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Todd McShay
All right, play me that beat, please. As always, we appreciate you being here. We're thankful for your support. We've got a lot to get to. As I said, off in the top m tell the folks how they can help support us.
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Mensch
Got to hit the Follow button on Spotify. You got to hit the subscribe button on the YouTube channel. Follow us on our socials. He's @mcshade13. I'm at you. Good mensch. That's M C, H and all. As always, consider subscribing to the McShay report. A lot of good stuff in there, believe it or not.
- [02:56]
Todd McShay
He's the best in the business, folks. All right, top 150 is out. As I mentioned have. You know, we've done a top 100. We've done top 32s. We're getting deep into these evaluations, so now is the time to drop this first top 150. My first top 150 in a couple years, Mitch. Right?
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Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
Let's. Hey, talk. Let's roll some of these graphics. The top 15. Let's just roll it out here. And if you want to get the entire top 150, just subscribe already, would you, to the McShay Report. Just Google it. The McShay Report. It'll be the first thing that pops up. $4 to get you through the rest of this draft. 36 for the. What is it called, men?
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Mensch
The double down.
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Todd McShay
There you go. The double down. Now here you see same guys at the top, same names. And here's what I think. Match. I want to get your opinion.
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Mensch
Okay.
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Todd McShay
I've, I've got, obviously, when you look at it, right, we've got one quarterback sitting here at the top. Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter, Mason Graham Genty, Tyler Warren, Jaylen Walker. They're kind of like the blue chip players. We're going to get to Jalen Walker in a little bit, but they're kind of like the position players who are the blue chip guys. Right. So let's get to it here. Match. Right. Here's kind of how I see it. It's been a lot of the same names. I've got Cam Ward up there at number six. You can put him at seven, you can put him at eight. Like he's a top ten prospect. We've already talked about where we would tier rank him with the other quarterbacks from a year ago. Right. What I find intriguing now is like the more conversations I have and, and B, and literally the grades haven't changed. These are the guys, the position players. Abdul Carter at 1, Travis Hunter at 2, wide receiver corner. Then you got Mason Graham, Ashton Jinty kind of right there in that next tier. Then you've got Tyler Warren and Jalen Walker. Those are the players that I believe any mock draft you do, any conversation you have with people in the league, those are the six position players. Then it gets, from that point on, it's kind of, you know, the old like blue and red scale we used to deal with in the Old days like those are the blues. Then you kind of get into the Reds, guys who you believe are going to be good starters, but they're not blues, they're not the blue chip players, if you will. And that's where you get into like the Colston, Loveland, Jedi Baron, Armand Menboo, Will Campbell, Omari and Hampton, the second running back in this class. And then you get into the edge rushers. And then further down you get in the interior defensive lineman, then you flip over right to the 16 through 30. Here's what I think is interesting. Going even back to the bottom of that first 15. We've talked so much and even in the last we did the deep dive in the defensive lineman. This is where it gets like heavy eight edge and interior defensive lineman match I had from 13 to 30. Okay, and I'll list them right now real quickly. You've got Mike Green at 13, the Marshall Edge, Shamar Stewart from Texas A M. And I promise you, when you talk to people in the league, the list is like it's all over the board, but they're kind of all in the same range. This like 13 to 30 range. Okay, then it's Mikel Williams from Georgia, the other edge rusher from Georgia, Derek Harmon, defensive tackle idl, another Edge, James Pierce, who I already said, if he's clean, if he's clear, like clear character and all the other issues, he's. I think, I actually think we'd be talking about him as one of the blues. But he's not. No, but he's not. Okay. And then beyond that, you've got Donovan Ezraku from Boston College, Walter Nolan from, from Old Miss, and Kenneth Grant, defensive tackle from Michigan in this top 30. What jumps out at you?
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Mensch
Well, there's a lot of defensive linemen, but I, I'll tell you what really jumped out in the name that you didn't mention is Tetoa McMillan at 28 is, I think, a lot lower than some people think he, he should be.
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Todd McShay
Agreed.
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Mensch
I have him higher, but I just don't think anything.
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Todd McShay
I'm hearing a lot of noise about Tet going to 12 to Dallas now.
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Mensch
Right. I would put him in that bucket of the 91s that you have. So that would move him up into the 18 range. We're talking about about 12 spots. I have them ranked a little bit higher than golden right now, but I love golden too. I just think they're two different cats, man. I think they do two different things, but I, I think that's a little low on Tata Roma, Bill. And that would be the first thing that jumped out on me. It jumped out of me. And then you see Jack Darted 21. But you're. You've been bullish on that for a while now. I think other people are starting to come around on it, based on what we're seeing some of the tweets on X. Some other people are falling in love with the Jackson dart tape.
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Todd McShay
So I love when you stick your little jabs in with.
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Mensch
So, yeah. So I don't hate it. I mean, that. That's. And, you know, another. I'm just looking at them. I've looked at him all day now I'm looking at a little bit more. I like that you have Malachi Starks at 18. He did not have a great year. I believe in the player. I think the 2023 tape is. Is that good. I think their secondary was. That went through a lot of changes this year. Malachi Stark. Malachi Starks, the safety from Georgia, I think, is going to be a dude in the league.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean, certain players, you just, when you're done with the evaluation, and then you go make sure that you're not missing anything medical. Not missing anything. Character. And I can say this. There's nothing, nothing to do. The two players that I know, I'm lower on, and it's okay, because not everyone has to fall in love with everyone. And I still got them in my top 30. Okay. The two players I know I'm a little bit lower on, and it just so happens to coincide with them a little bit higher on. Their counterparts are the cornerbacks and the wide receivers. You just touched on golden and Ted McMillan. I'm cool with it, man. I can't tell you how many times I've sat there and be like, yeah, all right, we're pick 11. Dallas is probably going to take Tet here. I got him at 29. I'm going to have to go down my list and cross them off there. But I'm not embarrassed by it. It's just what I think. Right. And that's the difference between a mock draft and, like, we'll find out in three years who was right and who was wrong.
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Mensch
Right. Trust your process.
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Todd McShay
Trust your process, and it's okay. And this, and I mentioned cornerback, I'm higher on. Jedi Baron from Texas. And I get it. He's 5, 10 and a half, 194 pounds, played a lot of zone. Ran faster than people thought, though. You know, when he.
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Mensch
Whereas some people are probably Higher on Michigan's Will Johnson? Is that what you're saying?
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Todd McShay
And Will Johnson is the guy. Every mock draft I read, Will Johnson's going higher, people and a lot of rankings. And then I talked to some people in the league and. And they're like, I'm a little higher on Will, but I talked to other people in the league. Like, I see it the same way you do, buddy. So it's okay that we're talking about.
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Mensch
That difference of 10 spots and one point in your grading system, by the way, just to keep that all in perspective. It's not like you hate Will Johnson, man.
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Todd McShay
One thing that's been consistent here is at quarterback, and you mentioned one of them, Jackson Dart has been in the 20s for a while for me. Okay. And at 19, this is two. Two rankings I've released. Top 100 and top 150. One name has not changed from the number two is left. And that's. That's the quarterback from Colorado, Shador Sanders. So we'll get back to the 150, and we'll go a little bit deeper into that later in the show. And I want to remind everyone, we've got. We've got linebackers to cover as well. And I also want to remind people, hey, come on. Like, we're just. We're 21 days away. We got mock drafts coming up. I've got my final top 100, which is going to be in the top three or four of 100 different people who put it up on the Huddle Report at the end of the year. But we'll have the top 300. We're going to have. We're going to have all the intel and information that you need leading up to this draft. And after the draft, doing deep breakdowns in it. Just go Google the McShay report.
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Mensch
Yeah.
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Todd McShay
Help a brother out. 4.
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Mensch
Are you, like, saving that. That familiar name in the top five? You haven't told me. We don't. I don't think people realize you'd like to surprise me on the show as much as you do.
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Todd McShay
I do.
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Mensch
Are we saving that for later? I know you have your whole thing laid out. I'm dying to know.
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Todd McShay
We jumped in, we got our producers and our directors and our tech people, people and all the. The geniuses that make this thing work. We. And the first thing I said to you was. Was not. Was not appropriate for on air. But the second thing I said was, buckle up. We get some stuff we're going to get to. And I want to see your natural reaction that's usually how we do it here. Okay, so that's the first entree into the top 150. We'll cover some of the other highlights towards the end of the show before we get into our deep dive on linebackers. We've done these positions, dives and they've gone an hour and 50 minutes. Wide receivers, the quarterbacks, inevitably defensive line with like 70 guys, it felt like we had to get to. Linebackers isn't the same deal. So we can kind of hyperfocus on a handful of guys that are going the first three rounds and maybe three or four names you could hear late third, early fourth, that could be impact players at the next level. But Shador Sanders, I've had him at 19 for a while now. There's varying grades. Some people have them higher than me. I feel like, I feel like a decent amount of people I talk to kind of have them in the same range as me talking about people on this side of the league. And there's a handful of people and it's been reported by other, other outlets and other individuals that some people have second round grades on. Okay, and that's fine too. But for the first time in this entire process, dating back to our very first show on October 22, I truly believe Shador Sanders is not going to be a top five pick. Now, I want to remind you, on Monday we said it, we started this conversation. I'm proud of us for that. And we said on Monday it's not looking likely. And again, I'm not, I'm not breaking news. Like, I haven't talked to Brian or Joe with the, with the Giants and I haven't talked to Stefanski. I haven't talked to Andrew Berry with, with the Browns. They haven't told me anything. Of course not. We're not breaking news here. But we told you on Monday that the winds are shifting, okay? And we applied football, football logic to it. We said at that point. And I, and I want to hammer this home. Okay? And I want, if you. I'm saying this for a reason, because these are the conversations I'm actually having with people in the league. And that's the part that's interesting. I think people who have, like, people assume, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think people assume. It's like, hey, hey, hey, Johnny, you know, how's it going? How's your family? How's your job as the assistant GM or the GM or the director of college? All right, so give me your board. Who, you, who do you like? What are Your need. Like, those are not how the conversations go.
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Mensch
Right?
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Todd McShay
Conversations are football conversations. They start out like, what do you think? I'm this guy. I'm struggling with this guy. Have you heard of this thing about the character? And then they just start going from there. And then usually the questions I get back, what are you hearing? What are you hearing at 3? What are you hearing at 2? I'm hearing this and. And then, well, I'm hearing this. And so it's just. They're organic conversations. But the thing that always happens during these conversations is that you apply football logic to things. And the conversations I'm having continue to surround this subject. You got a certain grade on Travis Hunter. Right. You got a certain grade on Abdul Carter. That certain grade. Just by everyone's account, even when Tennessee came out in the beginning, we said four guys. The position. Two position players that were mentioned in there were Abdul and Travis. You read everything. You hear all the quotes. It's Travis and Abdul, Abdul and Travis. Well, if Cam Ward goes number one and you're sitting there two and three and you have a quarterback need, you better have a damn high grade on Shador or else. Football logic tells you, just take one of these blue players.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
Blue guys are guys you think can be perfect, perennial Pro bowl type players. That's kind of the description. They're stars. They're difference makers. Right.
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Mensch
Right. Do you think you're a.
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Todd McShay
Go ahead.
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Mensch
Do you think you're a Shador Sanders away from being a Super bowl contender? If you're one of those teams, I mean, that's what it really comes down to. Like, you have to believe in him that much. You have to believe that he can win Super Bowls for you to take him over. It can't be. We're just going to get a little bit better in the quarterback room here. That can't be the move. You know what I mean? Yeah. It can't be. Like, we have a need, so we're gonna get a little bit better here. That's not what you use those picks for. That's not how those are used.
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Todd McShay
And I usually keep these conversations we have. I come in kind of hot. Like, I'm hearing Shidori could go. Three of the Giants could do and what. And people. And I'm getting kind of like, like, would you. Would you take them if you had Abdul sitting in your lap or trice. That's kind of the. The flow of these conversations just to kind of peel back the. The curtain a little bit. So the winds were starting to shift and we felt it on Monday. Right. And then, and then you look at like what we were saying kind of matched our evaluation and the evaluation most people had. And even the people who are higher on Shador, the evaluation and the grade don't match up with Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter and their grade and their evaluation. I think that's pretty consensus, right?
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Mensch
I would think so.
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Todd McShay
So it would. So logic would tell you that it feels a little desperate to take a player that you got as a, A red, if you will, or if third tier or whatever it is over a. This guy's going to be a star. Right. And then we even mentioned on Monday, like the FanDuel odds and, and you know, let's look at those. And all of a sudden those had shifted. Like you could. It's like the Santa Ana wins, right? Is that right? Santa Ana wins?
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Mensch
Yeah, I think so.
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Todd McShay
Something like that. Meanwhile, we got all these, all these Tucker says. Yes, Tucker. And everyone out in California right now, like bozos. We got the winds coming down from Maine, the Gulf of Maine. That's what we're used to. But it also led me to this, right. Oh, and, oh, and side note, as I'm having these conversations and we started the conversations on Monday and I'm having more conversations. I, I, I've seen just recently. Shefter now is like, I don't know that. And we're not in the information business. And no one has a report. No one's reporting anything.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
It's the same kind of like an Albert Brer. It's to say, like, start from all the conversations and people I'm talking to, it doesn't start not quite adding up. And, but so I think those are, those are important things to keep in mind here. I also thought about this. I think we're looking at the right things, social media and the right tips and the right stuff out of Shador's camp. I don't know that we're always reading it the right way. Interesting, right? Because it's interesting to me that Shador's camp, the, the messaging, it started to change recently. No one's talked about this. Okay, okay. What was the messaging in October and November and December? You tell me. What was Primes? What was the messaging coming out of Shadora's camp about where they're gonna, they're.
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Mensch
Gonna control where they go.
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Todd McShay
Exactly.
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Mensch
He's not gonna go. Yeah.
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Todd McShay
Okay, tell me paraphrase when. October, November, December. What was the messaging coming? Just paraphrase it for me from Coach Prime.
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Mensch
It was my Son's not gonna play just anywhere. We're gonna put him in a good situation to win. And, and basically he was like, don't try me. I mean, that's what I, I mean, I am paraphrasing, but basically he was like, don't try me. Don't draft him. If you don't, you know, if we tell you not to draft them, don't draft them.
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Todd McShay
Right. And so, and, and then I go to the combine. We go to the combine, and I have a couple conversations, and I've made it perfectly clear. I'll never, I'll never reveal who they were with. They were with team individuals who were in the interview room that were in the teams that were drafting in the top 10 that had quarterback needs. And they, and paraphrasing this as well, just didn't get the sense that shedeur cared all that much about what we thought of him. Wasn't like that wasn't that kind of meeting. Wasn't disrespectful. Wasn't nothing was said. Wouldn't even classify it as arrogance. Would classify it as just as different than all the other interviews we do where it feels like job interview, going.
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Mensch
Through the motions, maybe.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. Just. Hey, you're having fun. What's up?
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Mensch
Nice to meet you.
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Todd McShay
Yeah. Yep. So we got all of that pre. Combine, then the combine. The conversations that I, I had at the combine with individuals, and it's like, what did I say coming? I was like, they must know because it wouldn't be very smart to start reducing that pool supply demand.
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Mensch
Don't close doors, man.
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Todd McShay
Don't close doors. But it was interesting then, right? Because all of a sudden, Cleveland, you see Shador with the Browns hat on it in one picture somewhere that I, I, I started the conversation. I'm glad we had this conversation. I think I had the wrong scent, which is fine. It's fun to do, but it's also. It led us to. It, it led us to a really good conversation when he came out and there was the pictures and he was doing the watch up and sending them love over to Travis Bazzano. Bazzano. Bazana. Their major league baseball team. Guess he's a star in the making. Had to Google him like you should Google the McShay report. But. But I think he got us on the wrong scent. But it led to some interesting conversations about Stefanski and Andrew Barry and what Stefanski needs and how they have to win. Now they don't have money to do it, but they are going to need a, A Someone on their rookie contract to develop. How do you do all those things? What is Stefanski One with pocket passing. Not mobile, not the biggest arms processors, fast Shadors. All those things. You know who else is all those things? Kirk Cousins.
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Mensch
Okay. And he's.
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Todd McShay
And he's done it with them. And I also want to remind you my very first conversation that I had with you on this show when I was coming out with the first mock draft, I said the information I'm getting is that Cleveland's, Cleveland doesn't believe their long term answers here at number two. And I'm hearing a lot of. So remember you're like, don't get those poor Brown fans going Kirk Cousins. But I said this back in January. I, I promise I did. And I'm not like, I'm not here doing this. I'm telling you I sniffed out the wrong information already. Like, I'll tell you when I'm wrong and I'll tell you when. And again I. This could all be a smokescreen and Shador could be the pick. I'm just saying as we're. It feels like the winds are shifting and I'm telling you how this whole thing has gone through. So, so now instead of like playing it cool and, and, and sticking, I stopped hearing Coach prime coming out and being like we're. We're going to put them where we want. And I started seeing on Instagram and social media that Browns have Shador's wearing a Browns hat. Shador, Travis Bazana, New York Giant stuff throughout this process. Little hints and posts and different things. Then prime saying. And then having to retract but saying we really want it to be New York in some interview that it was at some conference that he was at. Right.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
Then the Shador pick with Gino Smith after he became with a Raider Raiders pick at six. Then prime. Then prime most recently coming out before he got that massive contract extension. But I think it was at the big, at the Big 12 Pro Day, wherever it was very recently in the last week or two saying we'd be. I'm happy and comfortable with any team that's drafting early in the first round. That's a big shift, man. Any. We, we vetted all these teams that need a quarterback drafted in the top 10 and I'm comfortable with all of them. That's not the message that was coming out of out of team doors camp in October and November and December. Okay. So you look at this and it just makes me feel like maybe they suddenly have realized that they don't hold the cards at this poker table. And it's starting to feel a little like, hey, look at me, Des. Like, yep, wherever you want. Yep, we're good. That's fine, right?
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Mensch
Yeah. We said this after the combine, man. Don't overestimate your value. You put yourself in a real bad spot.
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Todd McShay
And I don't think, and I've said this for a long time, if it's not three, if it's not two to Cleveland, if it's not three to the Giants, I don't think it's the jets at 7, and I don't think it's the Raiders at 6. I think they could, I think those teams could look quarterback with their second pick or maybe in the Raiders case, their third pick if it's Will Howard with Chip Kelly. And so now we're sitting, if this is how it plays out, and I, and I'm starting to truly believe this is how it's going to play out. We're sitting at pick eight and Carolina's there.
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Mensch
Really?
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Todd McShay
And Abdul and Travis have gone 2 and 3, and I want to get to that in a second. Okay? But they got a blue player. They got an elite player. Those two teams got their elite position player. Okay. And now we're sitting there at 8 in your Carolina. And yeah, I got an edge need, but maybe Jalen Walker's gone. Maybe. Is it Mikel here?
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Mensch
Pretty good class.
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Todd McShay
And then the phone starts ringing because everyone knows the Saints could be taking a, taking a quarterback, right?
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Mensch
So who's coming up?
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Todd McShay
So it got me thinking, what would it cost? Because I don't think it's going to be Cleveland. I just don't get that sense. I again, information conversations. I think there's more love in, in, in the Giants building than there is in the Browns building for Shador. But I could be dead ass wrong. I truly could be. And Shador is going to work out privately for the Browns coming up and he's got his, his pro day at Colorado. But it, it got me thinking, right? Oh, and by the way, I reached out. I can't help myself. I reached out to our good friends at FanDuel. We appreciate their support, just like we appreciate all of your support who are tuning in on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your. Your podcasts. I reached out to our good friends at FanDuel. Unbelievable partners. Every time I, I ask, they answer. Tucker unfortunately, has to be the go between on a lot of these occasions, but they get back to me like that. But they're now starting to Get a little frustrated. Not frustrated. They think. They think it's. I'm like a clown to them. I go, hey, who do you have? You know? And I'm always asking. This time I asked, I was like, what do you got?
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Mensch
Where.
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Todd McShay
Where has the line shifted at all? Because I think before it was Shador the odd. They've had odds on Shador and It was like plus 300 that he goes to. It was plus 170 on Monday when we talked about it, that he goes at 3. Is there an over under. I asked though, because I. I know I've told you all my.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
My degenerate friends, all of them. And I'm no better than them. I love them and I some one of these days I'm going to just start pounding these. These draft props. But I, I reached out to fanduel and they said they have not put it out yet. They call it. What do they. They joke around about it. Trav and Tucker just told me plus 185 for Shador at 3. It was 170 or 175 just the other day, but. So they joke around. Yeah. Here you're. Give Todd's odds is what they say, these hypothetical odds. So tell Todd's odds here. This is. This is the deal for fanduel. We would. We haven't brought it to market yet, but it seems like they're going to be coming out soon with it. The over under we would set at somewhere between seven and a half and eight and a half. So.
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Mensch
Wow.
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Todd McShay
So it's shift. The winds are shifting. Okay.
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Mensch
Where there's smoke.
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Todd McShay
So you got the Saints at nine. And I think Shador would be the pick there, but I don't know for sure.
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Mensch
Right.
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Todd McShay
Heard some love with Jackson dart there. I've also heard that they're not. They're like they think they can win now a lot more than a lot of other people think they can win now and they're looking to plug some holes. Maybe it's a pass rusher there. But if you do like Shador and you had to take Travis Hunter at 3. Let's say Abdul goes to. And we can have that conversation a minute. Let's say Abdul goes to. Let's say the Giants take Travis Hunter at 3. They make the right football decision based off of grades and. But they still. They're like, man, you know, like the Baltimore Ravens that one year they. They traded up, right?
- [28:48]
Mensch
Yep.
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Todd McShay
They traded up to get Lamar Jackson to move back in. Okay. 2018. We talked to Eric, Eric Ducassa told a great story. It still lives on YouTube if you want to go watch it. I'm not. I'll paraphrase it real quickly. But essentially, they made their first round pick. It was a tight end.
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Mensch
Hayden Hurst.
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Todd McShay
Hayden Hurst, yeah. Interestingly enough, they. They also drafted Mark Andrews. I believe it was the third round.
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Mensch
Yeah.
- [29:14]
Todd McShay
That year. Mark Andrews. Mark Andrews, right. But anyway, everyone had cleared the room. They're getting ready to go do their pr and Ozzy and. And Eric were sitting back and. And they're like, wait a second. We might pick up the phone. We might get in for the 32nd pick. They did 2018. So I had. I had Connor. Dan look this up. Sorry. I had Dan Comer, who's our. Our main man who's always digging stuff up for us, among 50 other hats he wears for the show. So 20, that 2018 trade, I had him look this up because I'm interested in 34 to. To 8.
- [29:50]
Mensch
Right.
- [29:50]
Todd McShay
I'm burying the lead. I. I always yell at my kids, like, start with the headline and then tell me what you like. Stop telling me all the other nonsense. So the lead here is it got me intrigued because I don't think Cleveland would do it. I could be wrong, but I think the Giants, like, there's been some. Some talk about it, and I. I don't. It's not based or founded on anything, but I think the Giants would. Would be the most likely to make that big of a leap. We haven't seen anything quite like this, though, at least in my recent memory. So I had Dan go dig and there's not. There's no perfect cop for this kind of trade that he was able to find. And we'll. I'll do some digging next week and I'll come back if there's something else. But 2018 was intriguing because that's when Eric Dacosta and Ozzy Newsom in Ozzy's last draft in charge sent. Sent pick 52 up to 32. So it was a huge jump. It was 20 spots.
- [30:45]
Mensch
20 spots, yeah.
- [30:46]
Todd McShay
Okay, that was a huge jump, but it was picked 32. And you look at that trade chart, man, it's 3,000. And again, I'll blow up the trade chart in a minute. I'm just. We use that as a reference. But when you're trading up it high into the top 10 and also trading up for a quarterback, and the team always knows when you're trading up for a quarterback. Right?
- [31:04]
Mensch
Right.
- [31:06]
Todd McShay
You're a hostage.
- [31:07]
Mensch
Right. It's like when you're booking a wedding at a hotel. If it's a wedding, you know you're paying more.
- [31:11]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Or a Saturday.
- [31:13]
Mensch
It's always a surcharge.
- [31:15]
Todd McShay
A $97 room is $436. Right?
- [31:20]
Mensch
Right.
- [31:20]
Todd McShay
So Ravens sent their, their 52nd pick up to get to 32, but also gave a fourth round pick pick 125 that year and a in the second round pick I think in the next year to go up and get Lamar.
- [31:35]
Mensch
That's not as bad as I thought it might be.
- [31:38]
Todd McShay
No, because they're moving up to pick 32.
- [31:40]
Mensch
I know, I get this. I get, I know it's not.
- [31:42]
Todd McShay
Look at this chart and I don't, I don't want to pull it up and lose, lose all this right now. But if you look at the chart, 3,000 I think is the, is the first one he's face ID. 3000. Yeah, here it is. I had it pulled up. 3000 is for pick one based off of this chart. And I'm telling you it's going to cost a lot more because they know you're trading up for a quarterback.
- [32:01]
Mensch
Right? Right.
- [32:01]
Todd McShay
And you're in the top 10. 3,000 points for number one. The eighth pick is 1400 points. At 32, it's down to 590 points, right?
- [32:10]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [32:10]
Todd McShay
Big difference. Now let's give you another example. Also Dan, I want to credit him. He looked this up. Tim Tebow in 2010. Okay. Another big leap up from 43 to 25. Okay. And that was pick 70. They gave up. In addition, they gave obviously 43. They swap and then pick 70, which is a third round pick and their fourth round pick at 114 overall to move up to 25. You're like, oh, that's not too bad. We can make that move. But they're not moving up into the, into.
- [32:40]
Mensch
It's not 25. Yeah.
- [32:42]
Todd McShay
Pick 25 is 720 points. Okay.
- [32:45]
Mensch
Right.
- [32:46]
Todd McShay
That pick for Carolina is 1400. It's twice as much. Okay, so let's, let's do something. Recently we've talked about the cake and eat it too. Nick Casario, he, he wanted the quarterback and he wanted his edge rusher and he. Damn it, he got it.
- [33:01]
Mensch
Yeah, that.
- [33:03]
Todd McShay
So that was with the Cardinals back in 2023, just two years ago. Got C.J. stroud and Will Anderson drafted C.J. stroud at two then remember they had that 12th pick. Okay.
- [33:15]
Mensch
Right. Yep. They had two first round picks that year.
- [33:17]
Todd McShay
So the 12th pick they moved up. Okay. And so, so Arizona received for that 12th pick. You ready for this?
- [33:28]
Mensch
Here we go.
- [33:30]
Todd McShay
The 33rd overall pick, which was Houston's first pick in the second round. Then first round pick in 2024 and third round pick in. In 2024. So you, so if you're the Cardinals, you. Okay, I'm moving back from three to 12. So now I pick at 1233 and I get next year's first and next year's third. I went, I looked at the chart. So if we're going to go by the chart for a minute, 1700. 1760. 1760 points to move up nine spots to three. Obviously that's a lot higher. Pick three is worth 2200. Okay, yeah, but pick eight is worth 1400. But doing that math, 1760, and then applying it to 26 spots, because that's what the move would be from 34 to eight would be 26 spots. If you do. I did the percentage and it's. It was like 550. It's over 5,000 points. It's 5,000 plus points to move up 26 spots, which, like, we're talking like three ones and, and a couple, three. Like, it's absurd. You can't do that. But let's just say, let's meet in the middle and say it's 2500 points, something like that. So in order to do this, the Giants would have to give away pick 33. Okay. They'd probably have to give like a fifth or fourth or fifth this year.
- [35:02]
Mensch
Yep.
- [35:03]
Todd McShay
Then they'd have to give a first next year, which would be. If you're saying 16, maybe they're drafted at 16. Right in the middle is a thousand points. Then a third next year, which would be like 2 to 300 points and then another first in 2027. Or even. Or even if it's. Even if it's pick 33, a fourth round pick this year, a first next year and a second next year.
- [35:29]
Mensch
Yeah, that sounds, that sounds more, more closer to what I was thinking. No way you're giving up three first round picks. I mean, two future first round picks. Would you do it?
- [35:43]
Todd McShay
Well, here's my point. It's an obscene amount because it wouldn't just be a first and a third next year. It would be a first and a third next year and have to. Maybe, maybe you get away with only a second in 2027. Now. Now. And. But that only gets you to like 2500. Not even 12,000. Like, it gets you like 26, 2700 points. I just said to you, it could be you. They could fleece you for. They could ask for 5,000 points essentially.
- [36:15]
Mensch
Somewhere they can ask for whatever they want.
- [36:17]
Todd McShay
So what I'm, what I'm saying is if you're going to give up a third or a fourth this year and a first next year and a second or third next year and then maybe an additional for, you know, day two pick the following year, why, why in God's green earth wouldn't you just take the guy at three? Yeah, right.
- [36:40]
Mensch
You like him that much? Because you have to like him that much. I mean, the amount you're investing in that player, it's not like you're just getting that player at eight now and like, oh, we got him at, you know, people will look back on that draft maybe and be like, oh, they got him at 8, that's pretty good. And that's like, there's no context there of what they had to give up to get them. I mean, that's, Sorry, that's way too much for.
- [37:01]
Todd McShay
The only thing I'll say is Joe Shane knows that his job's not going to last very long if they, if, if they don't have ownership on board and the fan base is happy enough to keep ownership on board and nothing would make the fan base happier than winning more games next year and having Shador and Travis Hunter and the Mara family would absolutely love that scenario. So sometimes rational football decisions get thrown out the window when the people that sign the check and make the decisions and own the, the business.
- [37:31]
Mensch
Right.
- [37:32]
Todd McShay
Say, let's do it. So like, I don't know you're talking about.
- [37:35]
Mensch
I don't want a stability there. But what would you do? You wouldn't do that, would you? You wouldn't make that move, would you?
- [37:40]
Todd McShay
Well, I draft him at three. Yeah, I drafted him at three, I'm saying.
- [37:44]
Mensch
But you wouldn't draft him at three either.
- [37:45]
Todd McShay
I wouldn't draft him at three and I wouldn't give away next year's one. I'd wait till next year and roll the dice on maybe Garrett Nussmeier is my guy or. And I'm not like, I'm not playing that game because I don't know. Because you never know because people say next year's class is going to suck and all of a sudden we have six quarterbacks taken first in the first 12 picks last year. That's just class wasn't supposed to be that good. Michael Penix was going to be a fourth, fifth rounder. Bo Nix was a second rounder.
- [38:15]
Mensch
No way.
- [38:16]
Todd McShay
Jamie Daniels was a fourth, fifth rounder like, come on, you don't know.
- [38:21]
Mensch
And you're also right that it could happen. It's not. It's not laughable. That's. That. That someone would. Would make this deal.
- [38:27]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I've just heard a lot of noise about that. They're teaming up and all that, but I just want people to understand what it would actually cost.
- [38:35]
Mensch
It's a lot. Dudes.
- [38:37]
Todd McShay
All right, A couple more things I want to. I want to touch on and I mentioned it earlier and I'm asked. This one's. I'm asking you. I'm. We're going to bullet point these things right now. Cleveland Browns, you know their roster. We've talked about it up and down. You know who their. Their offensive. Their head coaches. You know their offensive coordinator is. And Tommy Reese, you know there's a fancy calling plays. You know what their defense is. And we now know that Miles Garrett's there for a long time for a lot of money. Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are staring you in the face. Because I have started to hear a little bit buzz that Travis might actually be the pick there. I'm not asking that because I don't believe anything that's coming out of anyone's mouths these days. What I'm asking you is, is it Abdul or Travis if I'm picking or what they're gonna do you?
- [39:22]
Mensch
Abdul, no question. I just think he's. That. I think Abdul is on another level even than Travis Hunter. And then you have him and Miles Garrett together. Good luck. I mean, just good luck. That pass rush is going to be. I mean, it's just going to be a beast for any offensive line. You have to. I'm trying to game plan for both of those guys. In terms of what you're going to do with protections, what are you gonna do? Run seven man protections and they can still get there with four guys. I don't even. I just. I don't know what you do with that defensive line. And maybe I'm overrating. Abdul Carter, he's not in the league yet. Maybe I shouldn't be putting the gold jacket on over the shoulders. But I'm just telling you, man, I. I wouldn't want to block those two. Watch out. And I just think. I just think guys up front, and I've been saying this all along, you know, I don't lose my narrative here. Guys up front make a bigger difference than the guys in the perimeter. And Travis Hunter is awesome. Awesome. But guys up front make a bigger difference. The guys in the perimeter.
- [40:16]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I agree I, I, I won't be kicking in screaming. I won't be like, what a colossal mistake. And I, in fact, I'll be like, I'll just be excited. Like, think about the possibilities of, of Travis Hunter playing with Miles Garrett rushing the quarterback and the opportunities he'll have to, to get his hands on the ball on the defensive side. And then I'll be thinking about, all right, House defense, you're going to work him in on offense and what's, you know, what's it going to look like? Like, it's not, it won't be a bad decision either way, but one feels right to me, and that is we are going to suffocate you to death. Death. And all our offense has got to do on a average Sunday is score 17, 20 points.
- [41:01]
Mensch
Right.
- [41:01]
Todd McShay
And we're going to win a lot of football games.
- [41:04]
Mensch
Yeah. I mean, you got, you got Joe Burrow twice a year and you got Lamar Jackson twice a year. You better be able to get after the quarterback, man. I mean, that, that's what you're looking at in, in their division. So, and then, and then you try.
- [41:16]
Todd McShay
To, and then you see what's available in the SEC. You don't even wait till the second. You see if Jack, maybe Shador falls to nine and then maybe Jackson Dart gets in the 20s.
- [41:25]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [41:26]
Todd McShay
Because I don't see any teams from 11 to 19 that need a quarterback that is jumping off the page. I mean, San Francisco? No. Dallas? No. Miami. I mean, Miami could be like. But I just don't see that. I can see Miami taking one in the second round, third round. Indianapolis? No, not yet. Atlanta? No. Arizona? No. Cincinnati. Hail? No. Seattle? No. Tampa Bay? No. So, like Denver. No. You get to 21 again before there's a team that could be awesome.
- [42:05]
Mensch
If Aaron Rodgers could figure that out so we can figure out what they're, what they might do.
- [42:08]
Todd McShay
Yeah, he's going to be a Steeler. He'll be a Steeler. When we get closer. He's going to announce it at Pat McAfee's thing and to get a huge roaring thing because that's what his ego needs. Because he's Aaron Rodgers. Or he'll wait till the draft because everyone thinks now that it could be there night out or whatever it is.
- [42:26]
Mensch
That the draft in Green Bay. He makes the announcement. That'd be great.
- [42:29]
Todd McShay
I mean, would anything be more like Aaron Rod than waiting? Right. All right, next one for you. So now we're saying Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter in no given order or going two and three, now, my Patriots buddy grew up in Andova, grew up in Andover, Massachusetts. Yeah, Massachusetts. I'm starting to hear more and more buzz, and I'm not shying away from it with Will Campbell there.
- [43:07]
Mensch
Oh, man. Can't do it.
- [43:13]
Todd McShay
Let me give you a little background while you digest it, while you breathe, and you think about what you really want to say. Okay?
- [43:19]
Mensch
Yep.
- [43:19]
Todd McShay
Okay. Up in New Hampshire, he has 33 inch arms.
- [43:27]
Mensch
Now, here we go. By the way, I believe that number more than I believe the combine number. I do.
- [43:33]
Todd McShay
I. I just. I wanted to say this so people.
- [43:36]
Mensch
I normally say that, but I, I will this year.
- [43:38]
Todd McShay
And it sounds silly that we're talking about a less than half of an inch. It's. What was it? 32 and five eighths of an inch. Right. And now we're saying 33 inches. And believe it or not, like statistics say 33 to 34 is not ideal. But there's. There's a lot of examples. And we told you Already, there's only three starters in the NFL. None of them are stars that are sub 33 inches. And two of them are in the right side, only ones that left. Okay? But 26 offensive tackles from this year's combine have had pro days so far that have had longer, longer arm lengths. So I don't know who pissed in.
- [44:17]
Mensch
Someone'S suit, what happened, man, or if.
- [44:20]
Todd McShay
There was something wrong with the measurements. But, like, it's not like six or seven. It's 26 offensive tackles so far from pro days have had longer arm lengths there. Then they. And you can't tell me that 26 different scouts, or maybe it's 18 different scouts at 26 pro days have all been off or generous. It's just not how it works.
- [44:40]
Mensch
It's just Senior bowl, too.
- [44:41]
Todd McShay
Something was wrong. Yes. So, anyway, so that's that. I look at Will Campbell and I see what you see on tape. And I don't want to get into a big long thing on Will Campbell because we do have our position group deep dive coming up next week of offensive linemen. Okay. Most anticipated show for the mensch family of the entire year. But I do see this because every report you hear, like Tyler Booker and Will Campbell, there's one or two other guys, but like two of the best and two of the best in years in terms of interviews, passion for the game, understanding the game, commitment to it. Everything out of LSU is just like, yeah, we love all our guys, but like, you know this guy, and then you think about variable and what he's Trying to build and you think about the protection of your quarterback. Okay. And you got Memboo who's definitely a right tackle in my opinion. And could I think I, I believe physically more gifted. But it's not like he has 35 inch arms. He's got 33 and a half combine that, that. I don't know. I think. Never mind. I almost made a joke that would have been caddy that I won't make it. So he's clean, he's safe. They don't have anyone in that, in that O line room, man. Who's their dude in there?
- [46:03]
Mensch
No, I mean there's Morgan Moses on the right. Is that right tackle for them?
- [46:07]
Todd McShay
Yeah, for a minute. He's gonna be there.
- [46:10]
Mensch
Yeah. No, they know. No, I mean that is, it is.
- [46:12]
Todd McShay
If you're trying to build a culture and you need this group up front if you want to be a physical football team with a quarterback who's going to work off the run game and.
- [46:21]
Mensch
Young franchise quarterback, man.
- [46:23]
Todd McShay
And so now you're bringing without question.
- [46:25]
Mensch
Their number one need.
- [46:26]
Todd McShay
It's without question the number one need on the field. And also I get like from a core.
- [46:32]
Mensch
Oh, I get what you said. Sorry. Yeah, you need a dude.
- [46:36]
Todd McShay
So I look at. Okay, who's going to be available where they pick there. It's Memboo at tackle, but it's. Who are the other blue chippers? It's Mason Graham at defensive tackle. We just unlikely spent a lot of money on Milton Williams, Ashton Jinty, who like for a minute there and like it wouldn't be the most surprising thing ever, but I don't think they're in the luxury pick of a running back type of roster building situation. Right. Yet Tyler Warren, like, I don't know, it makes more and more sense to me. I think Jalen Walker would be a star. But like you just spent all that money on the defensive side and you got this rookie quarterback that needs two things. Keep his ass off the ground and get him some weapons. So.
- [47:28]
Mensch
I hear you. I mean, you're talking me into it. I mean, I. Everything you're saying makes sense and reading the tea leaves, I just, I, I've said this for a while and I'm going to continue to say it. I like Will Campbell. He is. I, I seem to be the one of few who doesn't think his tape is quite as good as everyone else thinks it is. And it's in the arm length, you know, 33 inches are. That's still not that long, man. It's. It's longer and it's whatever. I like his feet, but there's. There's. There are just some bad snaps on tape. And I think that the analytics people, you know, this is the. One of the players I have a beef with on some of the analytics with this player. I think that there are more pressures than. Then maybe they're getting up. But again, he's up there. I just, I don't think there's, like, I wish there was another tackle. Like, it's not like I can say there's another tackle that's clearly better than Will Campbell. I like Arman Menboo, but like you, he's a right tackle. They don't need a right tackle. And I'm not sure he's a top four guy in this scenario. The Patriots fans who thought they were getting Abdul, Carter or Travis about a month ago. This is not great. This is not great because there's no good answers here. There's no, you know, you. Will Campbell could turn. Admittedly, Will Campbell could turn out to be the guy that they want him to be. I. I could freely admit that I just feel a little uncomfortable taking him that early.
- [48:47]
Todd McShay
What's interesting, though, is I think a couple months ago, everyone, not vast majority in New England was like, let Shador fall to us at 4. This is where we can trade out.
- [48:59]
Mensch
Right. That's not.
- [49:00]
Todd McShay
Well, maybe.
- [49:02]
Mensch
Yeah, maybe it's just not what the market looks like right now.
- [49:06]
Todd McShay
Maybe because it's. It's just not how the market looks right now.
- [49:11]
Mensch
Right, Right.
- [49:13]
Todd McShay
But I'm telling you, like a couple months ago or even, like at the combine, if you had told our buddy Bill Simmons.
- [49:21]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [49:21]
Todd McShay
If you had told my, like, Cal O'Neill. Nolan Traeger, who's painting on the Vineyard, triggered a petro. Check out his art, if you're into art. An absolute gem on Martha's Vineyard. But if you. All my buddies who are asking me, right. Oh, if Shador's there.
- [49:41]
Mensch
Yep.
- [49:42]
Todd McShay
Is there a chance we're going to trade out? We need so many things, right?
- [49:46]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [49:47]
Todd McShay
I don't know that that's going to be the deal anymore, though. All right, last thing before we. I want to revisit the top 150 quickly, and then we'll get in the position group of the linebackers. One name that I. Let's just put it this way. Jaylen Walker ain't lasting long.
- [50:07]
Mensch
Okay. That was the name. The familiar name.
- [50:10]
Todd McShay
No, the familiar name back in the top five is Will Campbell.
- [50:16]
Mensch
Oh, okay. All right.
- [50:18]
Todd McShay
Campbell. After the combine and 5, 8 inches was, like, up there. And it's just not a tackle or no way. Now we could be talking about Will. I want you to think about your mindset on Tuesday after the combine.
- [50:31]
Mensch
Yep. I got you.
- [50:32]
Todd McShay
Monday. Tuesday after the workouts were on Sunday. So Monday after the combine. If I told you Will, Campbell's still going four.
- [50:40]
Mensch
No way.
- [50:41]
Todd McShay
Right. And I would have said the same, but the winds are shifting right now. I love this time of year, man.
- [50:51]
Mensch
Like, I, I, it's wild.
- [50:53]
Todd McShay
I've got some cornerbacks, I've got a couple safeties. I've got a handful of offensive linemen to finish up. And my book is complete. My. And I'm starting to see the light. I'm starting to have fun again.
- [51:05]
Mensch
I'm pretty sure that lights are trained for myself.
- [51:07]
Todd McShay
Jalen Walker. I love you, Jalen Walker. Let's just say, highly thought of calls. I actually had one. I was just gonna say I had one person say what. What's the bleeping difference between him and Abdul? A couple inches.
- [51:25]
Mensch
Really?
- [51:26]
Todd McShay
I'm not, I'm not saying that's a consensus. I'm just saying I think.
- [51:30]
Mensch
No, I know what you're saying. Yeah.
- [51:34]
Todd McShay
And I talked to one person I trust implicitly on Georgia players a long time ago, and, and he shared. Just raving about. I told you. It's, it's. Listen, Mikel loves the game. Mikel is a yes, sir. Gonna show. He's gonna do everything. Like, loves, like all the good things. Not the vocal leader. This guy is the alpha. We've talked about it multiple times, and then I've talked to other people in the league, and it's like, yeah, this cat. Like, I don't just get the tape. I get him in my building. Do you know what I mean?
- [52:08]
Mensch
Yeah. That same point you're making with Campbell in New England. Yeah.
- [52:11]
Todd McShay
Bingo. So it got me thinking, why not Jacksonville 5?
- [52:22]
Mensch
I mean, there's no reason that doesn't happen. It's just the Mason Graham in terms.
- [52:26]
Todd McShay
Of value this time of year. I'm always trying to think, all right, everyone's mocking Mason Graham and they need. And it's the best match of, of talent, where he belongs and what they need. But at the end of the day, he's a short arm defensive tackle who's. And I just raved about him.
- [52:42]
Mensch
I'm just saying, don't, don't start it on my guy.
- [52:45]
Todd McShay
One guy's missing a measurable, and the other guy's missing a measurable. And I get it, but we both think they're freaking phenomenal players. Yeah. I'm just saying, like Trayvon Walker. Now you kick Trayvon Walker inside and passing downs and, and he's never going to be that. We just. He is, he's. He's a damn good football player. He's never going to be a number one overall pick in terms of pass, rushing, production.
- [53:10]
Mensch
Don't hate it. There's no reason to say no to that pick. I, I think Mason Graham's a better fit for what they need and a good value at that spot. So that's why it makes more sense to me. But you can't be angry at a player that you have two slots down maybe, and is a guy is going to get after the quarterback for you. I. You can't get mad about that pick.
- [53:28]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [53:29]
Mensch
They should be happy with either one of those cats coming to the building.
- [53:33]
Todd McShay
I think the absolute floor for Jalen walker is. Is 8. Assuming that Carolina doesn't get some wild deal to move out.
- [53:41]
Mensch
Right.
- [53:42]
Todd McShay
Like we just outlined, which would be absolutely insane. But ownership is ownership. You never know. Yeah. So Jalen Walker, I, I think it start. I think the clock starts ticking a tiny little now. It starts ticking at 5. I think the most. I think the floor is. The absolute floor is the Saints at 9. But I think it really is Carolina at 8.
- [54:08]
Mensch
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- [54:38]
Todd McShay
All right, we touched on the top 150. I don't want to. I mean, we're 55 minutes. You know what? If you want to read my top 150, go subscribe to the newsletter. It's the McShay Report and we've been grinding on this. I've been grinding on the rankings, the film evaluations. Men has been doing his film evaluations and his rankings. You see him on get up this morning and Scout saying wonderful. I would love. I'll pass out. I'll pass out. One day I will pass out, maybe keel over if I were to see Scouts Inc. Mensch on a graphic there. But you Do a beautiful, wonderful job. We've been grinding away on our things. You have your rankings versus my rankings. It's become the foundation of the show. But in this McShay report, you're going to get my rankings. You're going to get my mock draft. We've got two more coming up. And by the way, we've got the, the two way too early. Mock draft right after. Then we've got all the draft buzz coming up and it starts really heating up. I'm telling you, that weekend before the draft is when I have the most conversations and get the most input, tell all of those things. So we walked you through the top 30. Go get the, the other 120 players I can get. Go through and tell you there's a big run on offensive lineman 25 to 39 and there's five wide receivers from 28 to 47. Who cares? Go read it.
- [56:05]
Mensch
I mean, you should care. You care. Just go read it.
- [56:07]
Todd McShay
No, no, I care. I'm saying like, like go read it. Go read it. It's worth it. A lot of effort's gone into it and, and it's going to be, it's going to be pretty close to what you need to know. Position group, deep dive linebackers.
- [56:23]
Mensch
Let's get it.
- [56:24]
Todd McShay
I always find it. Yeah, I always find it fascinating to look at the three year tallies. I told you the Bill Bellich story and I've lived by it ever since. That was back in 2001. Study the three years. It'll give you a sense of where guys are going to come off the board. So the linebackers, we've done this for every position. I didn't even. It's one on average the last three years. We're talking off the ball linebackers, folks. We covered the edges. Those are defensive ends in a four base 4. 3 and 3. 4 outside linebacker types is what we would call them. But today, in this day and age, wisely we've all come to the consensus. Their edges and their interiors, period. Okay, these are off the ball linebackers. Your, your mike, your will, your Sam. But they're like today's day and age. It's really a mike and a will and they're just off the ball linebackers. And we know what the traits are. We're looking for longer guys. We're looking for faster guys. We're looking for guys who are great tacklers in space. We're really looking for guys who can cover and occasionally we can turn them blue splits one in the first round.
- [57:23]
Mensch
These are the Fred Warners of the world. That would be the prototype. Right?
- [57:26]
Todd McShay
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
- [57:27]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [57:28]
Todd McShay
1.3 in the second round. The last three years on average then. Interesting here, 6.7. So seven guys on average the last three years. On the third round linebacker is a third round spot. That's where you get a lot of starting linebackers. You get a lot of guys who come in and you don't have to waste a pre. It's all about premium picks on premium positions. And off the ball linebacker, unless it's an absolute star.
- [57:57]
Mensch
What are your premium positions? People have asked on Twitter. Do you want to go through real quick?
- [58:00]
Todd McShay
Well, obviously quarterback, then edge rusher would be number two. Okay. Right cornerback number three. But it's blurred between cornerback, left tackle. And what's interesting is there's two things that have changed for me over the years. An interior rusher who can an inch and an IDL that can actually rush the quarterback.
- [58:27]
Mensch
Aaron Donald changed the game, man.
- [58:28]
Todd McShay
Guy Rockets. It's, it's, it's as valuable to me as an edge rusher if that guy can actually.
- [58:36]
Mensch
That's how you neutralize a Tom Brady and a goat and wide receiver.
- [58:41]
Todd McShay
Used to not be wide receivers up there, man. In this day and age in this, this league.
- [58:47]
Mensch
Put it where you have it in the, in the order. I would put that towards the back, but it is left tackle.
- [58:52]
Todd McShay
But down, down near the bottom is off the ball. Linebacker.
- [58:59]
Mensch
Linebackers, running backs, tight ends. That's, you know, doll, kind of in that, that, that group. Yeah.
- [59:05]
Todd McShay
Unless they're weapons. Right, right. All right, so. So it's interesting to me. So it's, it's. Yeah, you'll get about one in the first round, get about one in the second round. And then you're gonna get like seven in the third round. And then the fourth round you're gonna get. It's an average of two, essentially. And then the fifth and sixth round, it's a lot teams are like, yeah, we, we'll wait till the third load up, then the fourth, we get some other business to take care of. And then in the fifth and sixth, we're going to get all our linebackers third, fifth and sixth. So this year's class, I've got my linebackers here, but Jihad Campbell, I want you to start. He's the number one linebacker. He's that one. The average the last three years. He's our one this year. What do you got on him, bud?
- [59:49]
Mensch
Shoulder injuries of concern. We should get that out of the way in the beginning. Right Okay. I think that's a six to eight month recovery. I think teams are going to be. You know, that's what I've read. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I want to be clear about that. But he is coming off a shoulder injury. Teams are going to have to make their own determinations about that. He tied for the fourth fastest 40 at the combine. That speed shows up on tape. He is a sideline to sideline dude, both in terms of, I mean not only the speed but the instincts, the way he reacts so quickly and the motor and the way he chases. I think he's very competitive in coverage. I think that he is in above average pass rusher. He's a guy that can get after the quarterback. He doesn't have great size at 235 pounds. He doesn't have great length at 32 inch arms. But he bends well, he's quick, he closes well. And again that motor shows up in the pass rush.
- [60:36]
Todd McShay
Yeah, the motor, yeah. He only knows one speed and I love that about him. He plays a bit high.
- [60:47]
Mensch
He does.
- [60:48]
Todd McShay
He plays a bit high. Absorbs a little bit as a tackler. Doesn't win the leverage game a little bit. You know, when I first studied him I was like, yeah, he's got a little bit of tightness in like that short area. Occasionally will fall off a tackle.
- [61:05]
Mensch
Right.
- [61:06]
Todd McShay
But the long arms, the lasso guys, rips get dudes to the ground. Doesn't give his body to blockers even though he plays high and got like a little bit, does it? He's just quick with his hands. Doesn't give us. He's one of those slippery guys. Closes in a flipping flash, doesn't he?
- [61:29]
Mensch
452 and it shows up on tape, man. 452 at £235 and it shows up on tape, man.
- [61:37]
Todd McShay
Also that lower body explosion. Second best broad jump of the linebackers. 10 7. I don't know if he's just different and. And cover.
- [61:48]
Mensch
Those things are great but they show up on tape is what matters. You know what I mean?
- [61:52]
Todd McShay
Yes, yes. And in coverage I just. He's really good with his eyes. Like.
- [62:00]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [62:00]
Todd McShay
It's depth in his drop eyes. Reads like that. First interception against Georgia. First interception of the season against Georgia. That was eyes and drop depth. Like the. The interception was handed to him. It wasn't like this over the head pluck or something cra. It's handed to him because his eyes read it. He got there in the quarterback. Carson Beck did not. Did not see him because he didn't expect him to be there because it was a play action. And just about every college linebacker would have bid on that thing. And that opens up a hole right there in coverage that you can throw that curl. Not with. Not with Jihad. Yeah, he's going to come off the board early, but.
- [62:42]
Mensch
As he should.
- [62:43]
Todd McShay
But. But if he doesn't come off in the top 15, it's because he's an off the ball linebacker.
- [62:49]
Mensch
Right.
- [62:50]
Todd McShay
And here's the thing on him. And I want to ask you this question. I. I've heard this a lot where people are now. You know, you get like Zach Bond, the transition he made, obviously, with the Eagles, from off the ball linebacker to Russian or vice versa.
- [63:06]
Mensch
Vice versa.
- [63:07]
Todd McShay
Yeah, vice versa. You've got, obviously the Micah Parsons of the world. You've got this year with Jalen Walker and Abdul Carter, and you've got. We've had a lot of guys kind of move around in the front seven. I think he can do some edge rushing. I've seen some edge rushing on tape. I'm not ready to be like, yeah, he's.
- [63:28]
Mensch
He's not Jaylen Walker.
- [63:30]
Todd McShay
Right.
- [63:31]
Mensch
He's not Jaylen Walker.
- [63:32]
Todd McShay
So I don't want to mislead people when we. Because I feel like there's some misleading going on where it's like, well, I get an off the ball linebacker and I get seven, seven, eight sack a year guy for off the edge. We can. Yeah, I don't know that he's. That I could be wrong.
- [63:47]
Mensch
It's a nice element to his game. It's a nice element of his game. And I, I think he can help you in that area. But he's probably gonna make more plays in coverage than he does rushing the passer.
- [63:57]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [63:58]
Mensch
Can I ask you a question?
- [63:59]
Todd McShay
Yes, sir.
- [64:00]
Mensch
Strictly as off the ball linebackers. Jalen Walker or Jihad Gamble. Yeah, I'll go. I'll go with what I would. I would go. I think the. Campbell has the better.
- [64:14]
Todd McShay
No, no, no, no, no. Campbell, Campbell. I actually, I, I think Walker's a. I think Walker is a better edge rusher than he is off the ball linebacker. I think he's good.
- [64:24]
Mensch
Yeah. No, to be clear, again, Walker's good off the ball, man. I mean, he. The way he takes on blockers, the way he. He's £243 playing off the ball linebacker and moving the way he does. He's a great off the ball linebacker. I think Campbell has the edge and instincts as a guy. You know, Walker is C ball, get ball. And Campbell's more. A little more nuanced. When he's off the ball.
- [64:48]
Todd McShay
Then it's going to be middle of the second round. The second guy came off the board. Great story. Carson Swessinger. I just have water in my mouth. Swessinger. Six, two and a half, 242 pounds. Solid arm length. Right. Here's what I love about him. And it makes it hard that I don't have the same grade, maybe necessarily. I don't have a bad grade on him. I don't. I feel like. Oh, let me start with this. Schlesinger. 38 games in four seasons at UCLA. All 10 of his starts came in 2024. He's a walk on.
- [65:26]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [65:27]
Todd McShay
Minimal role.
- [65:28]
Mensch
Right.
- [65:28]
Todd McShay
I'm a former walk on. And I sucked. And I know that life and that life. That life ain't fun.
- [65:34]
Mensch
You're terrible.
- [65:34]
Todd McShay
Blocking walk on. Life sucks. Preferred walk on means we prefer you getting your brains beaten in every day.
- [65:46]
Mensch
Because all American defensive tackles, we don't.
- [65:48]
Todd McShay
Care a lick about you as a human being. Right. Thank you. Mark Magnus. Sean. Sean Barber. So walk on. First three years, barely does much, you know, and all of a sudden he comes out this year, 132 tackles, eight and a half for loss, four sacks, three pass breakups, two interceptions. A force fumble is a finalist for the Buckus award. How fricking awesome is that?
- [66:15]
Mensch
Led the country with 90 solo tackles. Yeah. Have a year, man.
- [66:21]
Todd McShay
Incredibly fast eyes. Fastest eyes of any linebacker in this class. And you might have to go back a couple years. Like, this dude reads it so well. And it's shocking to me because, I mean, I guess he picked it up on scout team or was born with it.
- [66:35]
Mensch
Right? But where's this kid been? Why were you hiding him?
- [66:38]
Todd McShay
He hasn't played a lot of ball, all right? 10 collegiate starts, and he's reading this thing like. Like a quarterback, like watching tape.
- [66:50]
Mensch
It's a.
- [66:51]
Todd McShay
Here's. Here's the thing. I want to make this point. So a lot of linebackers. I'm sorry to cut you up. A lot of. Here's your first. There's two parts. Excuse me. As I get worked up. There's two parts of the reads, right? And. Brusky. Teddy Brusky. We sat down, you sat with me. And he walked us through the. Taking the flash and all that stuff before engaging with it with a. With a blocker and taking a Polaroid, as you call it. The kids would say, you know, an iPhone, like quick snap. His isn't even about that. His is about the first read, a lot of guys can do. You're picking up the guard. You've got a key that you read, and that will kind of give you a little tip to where the first step should be. But you better quickly get your eyes to the ball the second. The second read. The second key is ball location. That. And I studied a lot. I was trying to figure out why is this guy so damn good. He gets his eyes from that first like, okay. To his. To the ball location faster than most guys we have evaluated. Okay. Now here's the problem. And he's really, really. Let me stick with the post. Carries a slot wide receiver. Awesome cover, too. He, like. His range is unbelievable. He's. He's really good in coverage. Really, really good. And that's a huge part of playing off the ball. Linebacker, go ahead and say what you want to say and I'll finish.
- [68:19]
Mensch
It's a range amplifier when you have eyes like that. It just. He didn't run his 40. He moves pretty well on tape. He didn't run his 40 at his pro day. I don't think either. Although he just. His short shuttle and three cone times were outstanding at his protest.
- [68:30]
Todd McShay
Yes.
- [68:30]
Mensch
And I runs well on tape. But that. Those kind of instincts and that quick reaction time is a range amplifier because if you. If someone is faster than you, but they start 0.5 second after you, you're already ahead of them. And I think that's what's really great about his game is that he's that much faster and quicker because of how quickly he reads it. Also, he's a bioengineering major, according to Dan, so. Genius.
- [68:59]
Todd McShay
Thanks. Dan can't take on a block to save his life.
- [69:05]
Mensch
It's not that bad.
- [69:08]
Todd McShay
I like to do that. I like to do that to you.
- [69:10]
Mensch
There's a lot of guys, by the way, who have. There's a lot of undersized guys in this class that are fast. That, you know, that's kind of the flaw there.
- [69:18]
Todd McShay
It's the trend no one can take on. Very few can take on blocks anymore.
- [69:22]
Mensch
The stacking shed guy is gone.
- [69:24]
Todd McShay
He gets washed.
- [69:26]
Mensch
Right?
- [69:27]
Todd McShay
It's a different world today. Kids these days, right?
- [69:30]
Mensch
Brandon Spikes is like, what happened, man?
- [69:33]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Brusky would throw up. I just don't think he's that great versus the run. I just don't.
- [69:43]
Mensch
His night. Okay.
- [69:46]
Todd McShay
I think in the NFL he's gonna. I. I just. I worry. I worry I said it.
- [69:51]
Mensch
That's. That's fine. I'm not saying he's not that great. Against the run, I think is a little bit of an exaggeration. It's a little over overdoing it.
- [70:02]
Todd McShay
I just worry in the NFL, but that's fine.
- [70:05]
Mensch
I got you cover.
- [70:06]
Todd McShay
And he, and he does a lot of great things and I love his story. I just. Here's the thing here, here's what bothered me.
- [70:12]
Mensch
There's a lot of yacht butts in this class like we talked about with other classes, but go ahead.
- [70:15]
Todd McShay
I put, I put on the tape because again, started 10 games this past year. I hadn't done him early in the process. I put on the tape and every, it feels like one guy got his story and was like, I got him in the top 50 and then the next guy had to put him at 45 and the next guy had to put him at 40 and now he's sniffing the first round and I'm like, yeah, I'm like, God, all right, now I'm going to put down what I'm doing because I'm still trying to evaluate the quarterbacks and I've got like second, third round, fourth round guys in different spots and I've got defensively against 75 defensive linemen this year, the 50 running backs, it feels like. And so I put down what I was doing. I was actually up in New Hampshire, God's country, nice kids all running around doing their stuff. And I was like, I've got to get to this. So I put it on and I was like, oh, I love a lot of things, but he's not one of the 40 best players, I don't think in this draft. So I got a little like edgy. And then I'd remind myself of his story and, and he's a wonderful human being and, and all that. So it's not. But I, I think you have to put like, there's got to be a bar for expectations. He's a, he's a damn good player. He's unlike best instincts in the class, really good in coverage. I don't think he's going to be step on the field and be this star, but I could be wrong. I could be wrong. Demetrius Knight, South Carolina. This is, this is my guy. Team captain, three time all ACC academic honor roll at Georgia Tech. Six year linebacker in college, final season at South Carolina. After four years at Georgia Tech and started out at Charlotte. Okay, no, sorry, it's Georgia Tech, then Charlotte. One year he spent. That's right.
- [72:12]
Mensch
Yeah, that's right.
- [72:13]
Todd McShay
That's right. One year in 2023, first team all conference, all world for the 49ers there. Then comes to South Carolina. Shane's like, come on in, bud. We need a. We need a difference maker. Beamer Got it. 13 games. All 13. First team all. I don't even know about that. I was going off the last second on the team. 82 tackles, eight for loss, two sacks, force three fumbles, intercepted a pass.
- [72:41]
Mensch
He's not captain one year at South Carolina, by the way.
- [72:45]
Todd McShay
You walk in the building like, hey, I'm the boss now, right? I'm the boss. He is the best versus the run in this class. Just straight up versus the run. Violent, pursues like a. Like a madman. Remarkable balance. Gets off block savvy, strong hands. Controls like seamless with his hands shed, like effortlessly, right? And then the closing verse is like.
- [73:15]
Mensch
Yeah, another dude who can run.
- [73:17]
Todd McShay
Another dude that can run. Four, five, eight at 235 pounds. Long arms, dude.
- [73:23]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [73:24]
Todd McShay
Only six one and a half, but 32 and five eight inch arms, big hands. You see it? Big strong hands. Here's the thing. He's a 43 off the ball, inside linebacker. Great versus the run. I think he's a former running back. Like, you see his hips aren't horrible. He's not bad in coverage. He's not. It's not jihad, it's not Swissinger, Schlesinger. But man, he's a leader. His temperament, loves ball, whatever it takes. Cover kicks, special teams right away. Violent, instinctive tone. Setting range, day one starter. I don't know, I just like this guy a lot.
- [74:12]
Mensch
Yeah, I thought the I, I listen, he's. He's good against the run. He's really good against the run. I thought the Missouri tape. I had a little bit more concerns about him getting off some blocks in that game. But you know, you're allowed to have bad games every once in a while.
- [74:23]
Todd McShay
I will say one of the Okariki. What about Bobby O'Carey?
- [74:26]
Mensch
I don't hate it.
- [74:27]
Todd McShay
Third round pick for the Colts. 525 tackles, Colts and Giants. He was also 6 1, also 239 also guess what his 40 time was, big boy.
- [74:39]
Mensch
458, right?
- [74:40]
Todd McShay
4, 58 on the number coming out of Stanford.
- [74:44]
Mensch
I loved him coming out of Stanford.
- [74:46]
Todd McShay
Also.
- [74:46]
Mensch
One of the things that, listen, the Knight does that I love, but also gets him in trouble is the way he attacks the football as a tackler. I mean he had, I think he had three force fumbles. He had three force fumbles. He hunts that football, man, when he's in a trail position, he is coming to Punch that ball out. And he has a lot of success with it. And every once in a while he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar trying to knock that ball out and misses a tackle. But I like the way he attacks it.
- [75:13]
Todd McShay
I saw that too. I just think like, you got a Bobby Okariki in the third round. Where do you want it? All right, so I told you so. So we got our first round guy in. In Jihad.
- [75:27]
Mensch
Right.
- [75:27]
Todd McShay
We've got our second round guy in Schlesinger. We got the start of the run presumably in the third round. Although I don't think this class. I think it could be like later, third and in the fourth where this run happens. But that's just my opinion because there's.
- [75:42]
Mensch
A lot of traffic there, man. Right. There's a lot. There's a little congestion in terms of who could come off. There's a little bit of a. That bucket is a little bigger than the norm life.
- [75:51]
Todd McShay
I agree. I'm gonna read you a bunch of names and I want you.
- [75:55]
Mensch
Okay.
- [75:56]
Todd McShay
One or two of them. Take it where you want to. One or two guys that like intrigue. If it's something about them who you think you have higher than whatever it is.
- [76:04]
Mensch
Yep.
- [76:05]
Todd McShay
All right. Small London.
- [76:09]
Mensch
Okay. Georgia for the tie for the quickest 10 yard split at the. For the linebackers.
- [76:14]
Todd McShay
I don't need. I'm gonna list them all off and you take.
- [76:16]
Mensch
I know. I already got one for you.
- [76:18]
Todd McShay
Okay. Danny Stutzman.
- [76:20]
Mensch
Okay.
- [76:20]
Todd McShay
Go Oklahoma. Chris Paul Jr. Ole Miss. Cody Simon. Ohio State. Barrett Carter. Clemson. Shamar James. Florida. Jeffrey Basa. Basa. Oregon. Eugene Asante. Auburn. What jumps out at you?
- [76:43]
Mensch
All right, I'm gonna start with Munden. He had tied for the quickest 10 yard split at the combine for the linebackers. And you see it on tape. 152 right beats blockers to the point of attack. I like that. I also think that he's really competitive in coverage. I think he's a guy that can match up with. He'd run with tight ends. He closes on the ball well. He's also got some good instincts as a pass rusher. What I mean by that is he has a good feel for where to attack and how to attack. Hugs blockers coming around the corner so it's harder for the back to locate him. He could be disruptive. He's not gonna be a high sack guy. But when you blitz him, he can be disruptive and move guys off the spot. Chris Paul, by the way, this guy, it's hard not to love Chris Paul. He's got 29 and 7h inch arms, small arms. He only weighs 222 pounds, but he plays.
- [77:36]
Todd McShay
Oh, my gosh.
- [77:37]
Mensch
If you show up, if Chris Paul is. If you're an office alignment and Chris.
- [77:41]
Todd McShay
Paul's like, you know who he reminds me of a little bit?
- [77:44]
Mensch
Who's that?
- [77:45]
Todd McShay
Our old teammate, Paris Lennon. Paris Lennon, Yes.
- [77:49]
Mensch
I saw that too, man.
- [77:52]
Todd McShay
Paris Lennon walked in as a freshman, undersized. Looks like a safety developed into a. Developed into a star player at Richmond. No one cares now, but I'm telling the story anyway because they had a Richmond home behind me and I'm talking to a Richmond spider and went on and played in the league for a long time. Green Bay Packers.
- [78:14]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [78:15]
Todd McShay
Yes. Packers, Cardinals. I'll never forget. He walked in, he didn't look that big, but I saw something in his eyes. And I remember taking like a sidestep when he was walking, like a towel on walking by me. And then he got there and he started someone, some. I think it was big Frank. When the defensive tackle said something to him, he didn't like. Like, and I'm talking like, second day in camp, like, this isn't like the end of camp where everyone's chippy and like someone looks at your, your, you know, your lunch the wrong way. There's a fight in the cafeteria. I'm talking like, second day of camp, we're just team building, right? And he turned around and said some words I'm not going to say right now, but essentially like, I don't care if my mom's wearing the other team's jersey and, and if you're wearing another jersey on that field, I'll. And he said some stuff and we were all like, oh, okay. But Chris Paul plays that way.
- [79:08]
Mensch
Yeah, he, yeah, he brings it to you, man. He's. He's got some explosive power. He's small. If you catch him, if you get him flat footed or going east, west, he's in trouble. He's in trouble.
- [79:18]
Todd McShay
There's a, there's a trait that binds these two, and I think it's one of the reasons you really like them. They might be the best two tacklers in the class. Us.
- [79:26]
Mensch
Yeah, the guy with the shortest arms, man. And then he's the stopping power. I was like, I had to look a couple times. I'm like, this guy is so small. It kind of reminds me of, in a strange way, Trayon Henderson and pass pro. How is Trayvon Henderson so damn good in pass when you have these, like, 230 pound backs. You can't figure it out.
- [79:46]
Todd McShay
Yep.
- [79:47]
Mensch
I mean, it's just, there's, there was a couple plays where he fills the, he fills the gap and he stops a guy, I mean, right in his tracks. I mean he is a big time hitter.
- [79:57]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Small Mund Munden is going to have to stay healthy and we can say that for every single player. But the injury history is concerning and that's, that's, that's a knock and that might, that might lead to fourth round. But I like him as a player, man. He, he had up and down in his career. He's got some stuff.
- [80:18]
Mensch
And he's missed four games this past year.
- [80:20]
Todd McShay
There's some things. Yeah.
- [80:23]
Mensch
Against Georgia Tech that he had kind of. Chill, bro.
- [80:26]
Todd McShay
There's some stuff. But, but that dude can play and Chris Paul can play the one, this is the guy.
- [80:33]
Mensch
I'm dying to talk about this guy. This is the one player that I think I got. I'm moving them up. And we loved him all year. And then I went back and watched more tape and I love him even more now. But Cody Simon from Ohio State is to me, he, the thing, this is the thing I love about him. And he makes it so hard for offensive linemen to kind of square up to him. And he does it by changing speeds, changing directions. It's just tough to get. He has active hands as he's moving. Offensive guard will be like, I took a good angle, I got this guy lined up. And then he changes his speeds real quick or he redirects and gets under the block but never gets into a bad position. And that's another thing that I love about him. He's almost always square to the ball carry. And for a guy that doesn't, he's not a stack and shed linebacker. He is a slip and chase linebacker. It's a difficult thing to do to be square to the ball carrier all the time like a lot of other guys. There's a little bit of concern about the tackling. I think bigger, stronger ball carries. Caleb Johnson gave him some problems. Even when he's in a good position, he's got to be a little bit better finisher as a tackler. But dude, seven sacks last year and not, oh, I'm gonna clean up this sack or I gotta, I, you know, there was times where he got a clear path to the quarterback. Dude, he, he ran a 4, 5, 9 at his pro day. He closes in a hurry, rushing off the edge. And then when you watch him between the tackles, he's Shaking guys. I mean he's making, he's, you know, guys knees are buckling on the offensive line. When he's coming between the tackles, it's, it's impressive. Cody Simon, then you add the, the leadership, the production. He had the most tackles. But for anyone in Ohio State in the playoffs, he had, he had 12. He had 11 versus Tennessee. No. 12 versus Tennessee, 11 versus Oregon, seven versus Texas, eight versus Notre Dame. All over the field, man. Getting guys lined up on tape. Cody Simon's a player that, I mean, he might be my linebacker 3. When it's all said and done, I, I just love the tape.
- [82:32]
Todd McShay
Interesting. Yeah. I think he's going to fall to the fourth.
- [82:36]
Mensch
He could.
- [82:37]
Todd McShay
Yeah. But I, but I also, like, I'm not betting against that guy.
- [82:41]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [82:42]
Todd McShay
You know, and I know I've got an awesome special teams player. At the unbelievable very minimum. At the very minimum. One last name I want to throw out there. What happened to Barrett Carter? Man. Man, we were talking about Barry Carter coming off that 2022 season as like the Jihad Campbell, potentially the future. You know what I mean?
- [83:06]
Mensch
Yeah.
- [83:07]
Todd McShay
And then he regressed the last two years. He broke out in 2022 and regressed.
- [83:12]
Mensch
Unreal year. Yeah.
- [83:14]
Todd McShay
Here's the thing. He, he's athletic, he moves well. He can blanket tight ends and coverage, undercuts routes. It does some really good things in coverage. But surprisingly, especially for a three year starter. Clemson, he, he literally regressed each year. But the surprising, he's a surprisingly unreliable tackler. Yep. And that's gonna get you like he's got to get bigger, he's got to get stronger and he's got to figure out how to tackle more efficiently or else it's not going to last long league. But if he does those things, he's got some talent. It'll be interesting.
- [83:54]
Mensch
There's. There obviously Clemson fire their defense coordinator. They had a tough year defensively. There were times where on tape where I was like, there's blown coverages all over the place. And there was times where I thought, you know, it's tough to tell exactly what they're telling their players do and what they might be doing. Something unique, what, all that stuff. But there was more than one occasion where I felt like, man, he's not where he's supposed to be. And that was. That surprised me. And then I also didn't. I've. I've loved him in coverage in the past. I thought he had a bad year in coverage. A little overreacting to, to double moves. Got caught out of position a few times. It just.
- [84:29]
Todd McShay
I'm talking athletically. What he can.
- [84:31]
Mensch
Yeah, he can do it. I was. I. I'm. I'm not glad you're bringing it up, but it does reinforce what I saw under underwhelming.
- [84:41]
Todd McShay
Yeah. All right, man. It's a fun one.
- [84:45]
Mensch
I'll tell you.
- [84:46]
Todd McShay
Go check out the top 150, please. Yeah, we. We do appreciate your support. I bust some stones every once in a while, but like we're here. We get three weeks. It's time. Let's. Yeah.
- [84:57]
Mensch
Don't keep. Wait. Don't wait. The more you wait that you're just going to want to double down next week. Just do it now.
- [85:02]
Todd McShay
But we do appreciate everyone being here. I appreciate Mench always. And what do we got going on? What is today? We're taping Wednesday night, so we're back on Monday. It feels too long. We got to talk to program. Yeah. I get some work to finish up.
- [85:20]
Mensch
TV is going to be great, though.
- [85:22]
Todd McShay
This is going to be a long weekend, but. Yeah. And then I think next week's mock draft. We'll keep you posted. No one likes.
- [85:27]
Mensch
That is. I think it is mock draft. Yeah.
- [85:29]
Todd McShay
Yeah. Mock draft next week. Mark 3.0. And so there's the last one before the last one. Shador gonna be in the top three.
- [85:43]
Mensch
You'll. The winter roller coaster.
- [85:47]
Todd McShay
The winds off the Rockies. All right.
- [85:52]
Mensch
Control yourself.
- [85:53]
Todd McShay
I know. All right. Have a great weekend. Appreciate everyone. We'll. We'll talk to you.
- [85:57]
Mensch
Thank you, guys.
- [85:59]
Todd McShay
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